#UNDER C: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m

[Tate]

^^ NO! :bash:

But you can have my castaways if you want them?:lol: :lol:

[AltinD]

^^ :ohno:

... I will never give way to a Harley rider anymore. :bash:

[Tate]

^^ :cry:

How about a Porsche 911 (997) Turbo?

[AltinD]

^^ To that yes (depending on the driver :lol: ) becouse I respect the car since the previous generation. :cheers:

[Tate]

^^ You're a real gentleman AltinD!:)

But what if it was me behind the wheel?:lol:

[AltinD]

^^ Didn't I made that very clear on my post already? :dunno:

:lol:

[Tate]

^^ Yes you did, but I just wanted you to tell me again!:lol:

Don't worry, I will try my best not to scare the livin' crap out of you when I come up behind you on SZR!:lol:

I move like a man possessed at times:lol: And I've got little patience for slow movers;)

:D

[agod]

Hi AltinD

I just noticed your location, I am taking my Red SL500 (Babe Magnet) to Budapest next week, and then on to Croatia, so will be going through Vienna, dont think it will be to safe in Tirana, just keep your elbows in as I whoosh past, you might get Pringled, Er I mean Tangoed.

Alan G

[AltinD]

^^ I didn't get the last part. Are you talking about the safety of your car or yourself? :D

I live in Dubai though.

[agod]

Sorry it's an English joke, an advert on the TV about a soft drink called Tango, where the man gets Tangoed, sort of sprayed in the orange stuff, and the other part is a reference to a poster on here with a similar name.

Alan

[chefdude]

taxes are a good thing. you should boast about how much tax you pay. taxes help the poor.:dance2:

Poor naive person, taxes line the uber riches pockets the poor may see 0.001% at best.

Great example motoring in the UK.
Fuel tax is about 82%
VAT on your car 17.5%
Road tax £35 - £300

All of that revenue and our roads are still shite! and even more we have to pay to get into London soon Manchester, Cambridge etc etc. UK motorist gets ass raped 365 days a year :nuts:

[High Times]

[QUOTE=Morrismarina;14610078]

Some people have suggested that TT prices have only gone up by 6% since launch but this appears to be pure guesswork, nobody has provided any facts whatsoever around this so this is just pure bullshit. I purchase my TT unit in Oct'05 and enquired about a similar one bed in May'06 and price was 15% higher.
I reckon your TT two bed would be around 25% more to buy now, perhaps more. But I'm only guessing - might be worth seeing if DS have any similar units like yours for sale and hence you can make a comparison.[QUOTE]

MORRIS

I have only just purchased my units in TT and have seen the launch price list and there has been a 6% increase so this is not BULLSHIT.

Take into consideration the currency rates and its actually quite a reduction.

If anyone can actually resell a Torch 2bed now and make 25% profit as you suggest then i would be very surprised.

The resale market in Dubai is still in it's infancy and seems to be calculated using wishfull thinking rather than factual information as far as i can see. Yes you may see units in the press being "offered" for a certain price but that doesn't mean that they actualy sell for anything like that price. But to be fair you did day that your estimate was a guess.

I bad guess, i would agree.

[Morrismarina]

As I say nobody is providing any factual information, including yourself.

So perhaps you can tell us which apartments you've bought and the price you have paid ?? Otherwise how do we all know a 6% price rise is true, you could be making this up ??

[High Times]

^^

Morris, Thanks for the offer of a free property investment appraisal.

I know my facts regarding my personal situation to be correct therefore i do not need to validate them with any 3rd party.

My concerns are with your comments to smshah stating that

"I reckon your TT two bed would be around 25% more to buy now, perhaps more".

When a fellow investor is looking for some genuine advice I just dont think it's very helpfull to use the first figure that comes into your head therefore these comments should not be taken very seriously thats all.

[arfie]

25% rise is way off the mark. Recently someone who I know bought in the Torch sold their 2 bed on the resale market for only 4% premium. Basically getting a decent premium in the Torch at the moment is very difficult as it is someway off completion.

[shaffar]

^^ that is simply useless information, just because 1 person for reasons and circumstances unbeknown , decides to sell for a small premium, dose not give an indication of the market for the torch. as most know the last scheduled instalment predelivery has just been paid, and any default on that payment would have meant the lose of all. i think that seller was short on cash.

[arfie]

Nope the sellor wasnt short of cash, just wanted to get rid of it and it took over 9 months to sell.

The resale market for the Torch simply isnt there at the moment just like any other development in its early stages. Also not many people will buy on the secondary market in the torch yet cos of the uncertainty of whats going to be built in front.

[Dubai_Steve]

I agree with arfie on that, right now you will only get between 6% and 10% max premium from the original prices of the Torch. So in effect a loss has been made so far because of money invested and the exchange rate.

However, it is not bad news as we know that a similar completed property is worth much more than that (I would say 60% more at least). What I find strange however, is that resales for other properties which have only started construction have a higher premium. for example the Trident Grand which is getting premiums of 20% or more already.

[Dubai_Steve]

arfie, although there in uncertainty of whats going to be built in front of the torch, this ony affect the marina view apartments, so this should not affect resale values of other aspects but still it is only 6%. Why the difference between this and Trident Grand which is further behind construction ?

[shaffar]

once the build gets to an advanced stage , all will change, kitchen hot out

[smshah]

Dear investors

i recently (2 weeks ago) did a valuation on my not yet completed 2 bedroom marina facing apartment on floor 48. The agents were bhomes, property people and sherwood. Sherwood came back with 2M AED Valuation, bhome came at 1.8m to 2M and property people came back with 1.8m to 2m. whether or not they can find a buyer for the price i do not know but this is valuations they gave.

[malec]

Can we move some of this talk to the investment thread please?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ So that is a 55% premium ! In that case try and sell it instead of giving it back to Select Property for 1.29m

[High Times]

Can we move some of this talk to the investment thread please?

Why when all the points are Torch related ?

The investment thread is nothing but a cut and paste collage of rips from various papers and Ezines

[High Times]

Dear investors

i recently (2 weeks ago) did a valuation on my not yet completed 2 bedroom marina facing apartment on floor 48. The agents were bhomes, property people and sherwood. Sherwood came back with 2M AED Valuation, bhome came at 1.8m to 2M and property people came back with 1.8m to 2m. whether or not they can find a buyer for the price i do not know but this is valuations they gave.

If anyone can sell your 48 floor 2bed for 1.8-2 million they deserve salesman of the year.

Maybe Morris has resigned his post in DS and moved to Better Homes as a valuer?

[Rider]

Dear investors

i recently (2 weeks ago) did a valuation on my not yet completed 2 bedroom marina facing apartment on floor 48. The agents were bhomes, property people and sherwood. Sherwood came back with 2M AED Valuation, bhome came at 1.8m to 2M and property people came back with 1.8m to 2m. whether or not they can find a buyer for the price i do not know but this is valuations they gave.

These sound more likely to be the valuations if the apartment was complete now.

[plotman]

Dear investors

i recently (2 weeks ago) did a valuation on my not yet completed 2 bedroom marina facing apartment on floor 48. The agents were bhomes, property people and sherwood. Sherwood came back with 2M AED Valuation, bhome came at 1.8m to 2M and property people came back with 1.8m to 2m. whether or not they can find a buyer for the price i do not know but this is valuations they gave.

Why would anybody pay this .ORYX have 1888sq/ft appt,s in the Atlantic for 1.6/1.8mil aed All with full marina views and two steps from the mall.

[barry mcbarry]

Poor naive person, taxes line the uber riches pockets the poor may see 0.001% at best.

Great example motoring in the UK.
Fuel tax is about 82%
VAT on your car 17.5%
Road tax £35 - £300

All of that revenue and our roads are still shite! and even more we have to pay to get into London soon Manchester, Cambridge etc etc. UK motorist gets ass raped 365 days a year :nuts:

it's not the roads my silly friend, it's the number of drivers on them. raise fuel tax, impose motorway tolls, double VAT and save the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana:

[Dubai_Steve]

These sound more likely to be the valuations if the apartment was complete now.

Damac Heights is selling 1 beds from Dh2.5 million with 6 years to wait for completion. So the Torch 2 bed should be worth 1.8m by now :dunno:

[True Blue]

......................................... Why the difference between this and Trident Grand which is further behind construction ?

The only difference is the track record. Trident have one high quality development already handed over and 2 buildings nearing completion with a 4th well out of the ground. The fifth project, Trident Grand Residence, is slightly behind The Torch and that's the one you are using for comparison purposes.

DS have a portfolio of properties to match Trident but none of their projects are advanced enough to have earned them the reputation that Trident enjoys.

[Tate]

taxes are a good thing. you should boast about how much tax you pay. taxes help the poor.:dance2:


it's not the roads my silly friend, it's the number of drivers on them. raise fuel tax, impose motorway tolls, double VAT and save the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you out of your friggin mind barry?:weird: I take it you get around on a bicycle then eh?

I pay more than enough tax already thank you very much! And I resent every penney of it too! I pay enough tax (on several fronts) to make your head spin!

You're right, and wrong though barry, taxes do help the poor, but they help the rich a hell of a lot more! There has to be poor people in the world so that there can be rich. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer! It's a fact!:yes:

Whether you're talking about road, drivers, or whatever, chefdude is right, the UK motorist gets a raw deal... You can't get into central London anymore without getting it in the ass every day! They take in huge revenue and still the whole system stinks!!!:bash:

If you want to save the planet barry(which I support obviously) then start handing out lots more bicycles to all of us big tax payers!!! But don't waste your time in Dubai, the rich want to keep their Porsches, Ferraris (as I want to keep mine) and everything else because that's all that really matters to them!

[barry mcbarry]

Are you out of your friggin mind barry?:weird: I take it you get around on a bicycle then eh?

I pay more than enough tax already thank you very much! And I resent every penney of it too! I pay enough tax (on several fronts) to make your head spin!

You're right, and wrong though barry, taxes do help the poor, but they help the rich a hell of a lot more! There has to be poor people in the world so that there can be rich. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer! It's a fact!:yes:

Whether you're talking about road, drivers, or whatever, chefdude is right, the UK motorist gets a raw deal... You can't get into central London anymore without getting it in the ass every day! They take in huge revenue and still the whole system stinks!!!:bash:

If you want to save the planet barry(which I support obviously) then start handing out lots more bicycles to all of us big tax payers!!! But don't waste your time in Dubai, the rich want to keep their Porsches, Ferraris (as I want to keep mine) and everything else because that's all that really matters to them!

I think you've gone a tad off topic.:rant:

PS

I bet I pay a lot more tax than you:banana:

[Tag_one]

it's not the roads my silly friend, it's the number of drivers on them. raise fuel tax, impose motorway tolls, double VAT and save the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana:

There's no alternative in Dubai, it's to hot to walk or to use a bicycle. And public transport, well if it is as worse as in the Netherlands: :puke:

[Mistermark]

taxes are a good thing. you should boast about how much tax you pay. taxes help the poor.:dance2:


Sometimes the best way to help the poor is not to give them handouts.

[Morrismarina]

The only difference is the track record. Trident have one high quality development already handed over and 2 buildings nearing completion with a 4th well out of the ground. The fifth project, Trident Grand Residence, is slightly behind The Torch and that's the one you are using for comparison purposes.

DS have a portfolio of properties to match Trident but none of their projects are advanced enough to have earned them the reputation that Trident enjoys.

That's a very positive post from you about DS.........do you fancy a job, how about comming and working for us . :lol:

[barry mcbarry]

There's no alternative in Dubai, it's to hot to walk or to use a bicycle. And public transport, well if it is as worse as in the Netherlands: :puke:

i've invested in the metro- it's the future of dubai:laugh:

[AltinD]

i've invested in the metro- it's the future of dubai:laugh:

GOOD LUCK!


http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7079/p1040745bl6.jpg


:lol: :lol:

[barry mcbarry]

shit

[Tate]

I think you've gone a tad off topic.:rant:

PS

I bet I pay a lot more tax than you:banana:

A tad maybe, but only just!:lol:

So you think you pay more tax than me eh? How much do you pay then? I paid close to £40 Grand last year in the UK alone... not to mention France, Japan and Brazil!

But that's not something to dance or boast about barry:ohno: It's something to :cry: about! I don't like the idea of my money lining some twat's pocket!:bash: :mad: Unless they are genuinely unemployed and need the assistance. But I know most of my taxes do go to the rich, and not to people who deserve/need it more!

[chefdude]

it's not the roads my silly friend, it's the number of drivers on them. raise fuel tax, impose motorway tolls, double VAT and save the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana:


:)

I wasn't referring to the overcrowding, but the physical state. Our motoring taxes are supposed to cover the cost of road building and upkeep, but the number of cracked, potholed roads, the never ending roadworks and resurfacing etc etc etc. The amount of money the govt takes off us we should have the most perfect roads in the universe!

As out there as it may seem my original statement about the destination of taxes still stands. The above was but 1 example :ohno:

Tate gets it :cheers:

[rexdmx]

plus tate knows beyonce!!! that makes up for any mistake (if there was any):banana:


:)

I wasn't referring to the overcrowding, but the physical state. Our motoring taxes are supposed to cover the cost of road building and upkeep, but the number of cracked, potholed roads, the never ending roadworks and resurfacing etc etc etc. The amount of money the govt takes off us we should have the most perfect roads in the universe!

As out there as it may seem my original statement about the destination of taxes still stands. The above was but 1 example :ohno:

Tate gets it :cheers:

[smshah]

any news on torch construction?

[Tate]

:)

I wasn't referring to the overcrowding, but the physical state. Our motoring taxes are supposed to cover the cost of road building and upkeep, but the number of cracked, potholed roads, the never ending roadworks and resurfacing etc etc etc. The amount of money the govt takes off us we should have the most perfect roads in the universe!

As out there as it may seem my original statement about the destination of taxes still stands. The above was but 1 example :ohno:

Tate gets it :cheers:

Seriously contemplating giving up driving in the UK mate! It's becoming a bigger nightmare every time I get over there! :ohno: It's a disgrace the way they treat motorists in the UK!:bash: Yes, absolutely, with the amount of money they take off us they should have the best roads in the world!!! They seem to take great pleasure out of persecuting motorists there!? Why? :ohno: I think I'll use the bus or tube from now on! And they're not much better either! :ohno:

In London especially, they just want to bleed you dry!? :wtf:

[Tate]

plus tate knows beyonce!!! that makes up for any mistake (if there was any):banana:

^^ :lol:

:rofl:

[smshah]

am i mistaken? is a forum for the torch construction or a forum for tax in the uk and driving offences, driving taxes etc.

stick to the forum guys please!

any news on he construction?

[rexdmx]

what's ur problem..? a little drift here or there won't bring the bloody torch down!!! by the way, if you have read the previous posts you would be able to know where the construction status is anyway

am i mistaken? is a forum for the torch construction or a forum for tax in the uk and driving offences, driving taxes etc.

stick to the forum guys please!

any news on he construction?

[mackie1964]

^^ I can see, he will be trouble as a neighbour, whether in TT or BC.:bash:

[rexdmx]

i should feed him to my pet croc :lol:


^^ I can see, he will be trouble as a neighbour, whether in TT or BC.:bash:

[TheLondoner]

Just came back from Dubai. While there, i took the opportunity to visit the site and to meet with the main architect responsible for the project - A Select employee called 'Dave Mullen'. I managed to get some 'facts' regarding the project.

I saw from the business card that the legal entitiy - Dubai Select LLC has a holding company in the Sechelles.

Timeline - the project is in line with their amended timeframe - scheduled for handover at Sept 09, although could possibly happen several weeks before. No major hurdles envisaged - should be straightforward from here on in and demonstrable progress.

The possibility of partial completion (as outlined in the most recent letter from DS) won’t happen, given how crazy this would be from a logistical/safety and licensing perspective. Handover of any apartments will only take place once the entire building is complete.

Interior finishes - these have been selected and ordered already. Nothing like the crazy stuff on their website. Mainly brown/beige finishes. All fairly neutral.

One thing i raised that i was slightly unclear with the answer, i asked for information about the updated render and the impact of any apartment sizes, given that the building will no longer be tapered, and the changes to the service floors. They said there would be no changes to apartment dimensions. I recall Morris stating that his flat increased in size, so I’m not sure if this has now changed, or the architect didn’t fully understand my question. might be worth seeking clarification.

All in all, meeting was useful and was underlined by their candour with no obvious evasiveness to questions i asked, but of course, time will tell.

[barry mcbarry]

Seriously contemplating giving up driving in the UK mate! It's becoming a bigger nightmare every time I get over there! :ohno: It's a disgrace the way they treat motorists in the UK!:bash: Yes, absolutely, with the amount of money they take off us they should have the best roads in the world!!! They seem to take great pleasure out of persecuting motorists there!? Why? :ohno: I think I'll use the bus or tube from now on! And they're not much better either! :ohno:

In London especially, they just want to bleed you dry!? :wtf:

see, the system does work.:laugh:

[barry mcbarry]

A tad maybe, but only just!:lol:

So you think you pay more tax than me eh? How much do you pay then? I paid close to £40 Grand last year in the UK alone... not to mention France, Japan and Brazil!

But that's not something to dance or boast about barry:ohno: It's something to :cry: about! I don't like the idea of my money lining some twat's pocket!:bash: :mad: Unless they are genuinely unemployed and need the assistance. But I know most of my taxes do go to the rich, and not to people who deserve/need it more!

tate, if you're paying tax in all those countries, you need a better accountant.;)

but i take my hat off to you all the same. you're a one man NGO!:hi:

[barry mcbarry]

:)

I wasn't referring to the overcrowding, but the physical state. Our motoring taxes are supposed to cover the cost of road building and upkeep, but the number of cracked, potholed roads, the never ending roadworks and resurfacing etc etc etc. The amount of money the govt takes off us we should have the most perfect roads in the universe!

As out there as it may seem my original statement about the destination of taxes still stands. The above was but 1 example :ohno:

Tate gets it :cheers:

not sure how you can complain about cracked, potholed roads and lack of upkeep AND never ending roadworks and resurfacing.:nuts:

i live within the congestion zone in london and its FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!:banana:

[barry mcbarry]

am i mistaken? is a forum for the torch construction or a forum for tax in the uk and driving offences, driving taxes etc.

stick to the forum guys please!

any news on he construction?

smshah, the moderators gave up on this thread a long time ago. it's like the wild west out here.:guns1:

ps, with regard to construction news, let me reassure you, the news on construction is good.:lol:

[Anjam]

Just came back from Dubai. While there, i took the opportunity to visit the site and to meet with the main architect responsible for the project - A Select employee called 'Dave Mullen'. I managed to get some 'facts' regarding the project.

I saw from the business card that the legal entitiy - Dubai Select LLC has a holding company in the Sechelles.

Timeline - the project is in line with their amended timeframe - scheduled for handover at Sept 09, although could possibly happen several weeks before. No major hurdles envisaged - should be straightforward from here on in and demonstrable progress.

The possibility of partial completion (as outlined in the most recent letter from DS) won’t happen, given how crazy this would be from a logistical/safety and licensing perspective. Handover of any apartments will only take place once the entire building is complete.

Interior finishes - these have been selected and ordered already. Nothing like the crazy stuff on their website. Mainly brown/beige finishes. All fairly neutral.

One thing i raised that i was slightly unclear with the answer, i asked for information about the updated render and the impact of any apartment sizes, given that the building will no longer be tapered, and the changes to the service floors. They said there would be no changes to apartment dimensions. I recall Morris stating that his flat increased in size, so I’m not sure if this has now changed, or the architect didn’t fully understand my question. might be worth seeking clarification.

All in all, meeting was useful and was underlined by their candour with no obvious evasiveness to questions i asked, but of course, time will tell.

Come on guys pack it in. Some banter now and then is fine but please don't take the pi$$. I don't really care how much tax who is paying (other tha DS/SP). If you had any "real" interest in the Torch construction maybe you should have at least cared to comment on The Londers recent informative post.

The Londoner:

Thanks for the post, I think Dave Mullen is the development manager for the Torch rather than lead architect.
Regarding the apartment size, I had a letter through the post confirming that my apartment size had increased as result of the redesign. I know Naz also mentioned this. Some apartments have even gained 10% which makes sense becauase the top of the tower is now the same size as the bottom so higher apartments would gain more.

"Interior finishes - these have been selected and ordered already. Nothing like the crazy stuff on their website. Mainly brown/beige finishes. All fairly neutral."

The crazy stuff on their website was also brown/beige ! However I am sure those renders will nto resemble the final product.

[Anjam]

HateTorch,
Can we have one of your low flying birds eye views please.

Much appreciated:cheers:

[Tate]

see, the system does work.:laugh:

^^ :lol: :nuts: :bash: :cry: :wallbash: :gaah: :ohno: ^^

[smshah]

dear investors

i would like to ask a further question to the investors of the torch.

what are the chances of the plot in front of the torch (old sales center) having a building in excess of 30 floors.

[Tate]

tate, if you're paying tax in all those countries, you need a better accountant.;)

but i take my hat off to you all the same. you're a one man NGO!:hi:

You're right, I do need a new accountant! Consider that woman history!!!:lol: Apart from the UK and Japan though, things are perfectly fine, I don't pay nowhere near as much tax in Brazil or France! They don't call it rip-off Britain for nothing barry!:bash: As for Japan = :gaah: :gaah: :gaah: :ohno:

Thanks though:)

Oh hey barry, didn't you bet me you pay more tax than me? Hmmm...c'mon spill!:lol: :lol:

[Morrismarina]

Just came back from Dubai. While there, i took the opportunity to visit the site and to meet with the main architect responsible for the project - A Select employee called 'Dave Mullen'. I managed to get some 'facts' regarding the project.

I saw from the business card that the legal entitiy - Dubai Select LLC has a holding company in the Sechelles.

Timeline - the project is in line with their amended timeframe - scheduled for handover at Sept 09, although could possibly happen several weeks before. No major hurdles envisaged - should be straightforward from here on in and demonstrable progress.

The possibility of partial completion (as outlined in the most recent letter from DS) won’t happen, given how crazy this would be from a logistical/safety and licensing perspective. Handover of any apartments will only take place once the entire building is complete.

Interior finishes - these have been selected and ordered already. Nothing like the crazy stuff on their website. Mainly brown/beige finishes. All fairly neutral.

One thing i raised that i was slightly unclear with the answer, i asked for information about the updated render and the impact of any apartment sizes, given that the building will no longer be tapered, and the changes to the service floors. They said there would be no changes to apartment dimensions. I recall Morris stating that his flat increased in size, so I’m not sure if this has now changed, or the architect didn’t fully understand my question. might be worth seeking clarification.

All in all, meeting was useful and was underlined by their candour with no obvious evasiveness to questions i asked, but of course, time will tell.


Many thanks for the info Londoner, the completion date is encouraging.

Regarding the increase in apartment size here is the floor plan for the one beds.

Originally all the one beds were originally identical size being the same layout as those nunbered 4 & 5 (Marina Heights facing) and 10 & 11 (sea facing). Following the re-design the Marina facing one beds 7 & 8 and the Media City side 1 & 2 were increased in size by some of the excess lobby area by the lifts being used for the bathroom. Also there was a powder room (1/2 bathroom) added and the kitchen became open-plan. Hence my apartment area was increased by nearly 10%.

The large one beds became known as Type A with the smaller ones Type B.

As far as I am aware the two beds on these floors remained the same.

However further up the tower on the top floors the three beds were reduced slightly with a one bed apartment added in between, but these are smaller than the one beds shown here.

There are some larger two beds in the middle of the tower, I'm not sure if these were increased, stands a chance as the tower is quite rightly less tapered.

The DS website has the new floorplans.

http://i16.tinypic.com/4uemhac.gif

Given that David Mullens is involved in the construction I'm surprised he did not know of the increased size of the one bed apartments.

Also nice to know that he acknowledged that partial handover of the tower is not going to work. Can't believe DS embarassed themselves by sending out such a ridiculous letter. Absolutely outrageous......You couldn't make this kind of stuff up if you tried. :lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

dear investors

i would like to ask a further question to the investors of the torch.

what are the chances of the plot in front of the torch (old sales center) having a building in excess of 30 floors.

68%

[mackie1964]

^^ I can understand how you arrived at this figure:
=30*(30*(2+1)-30*(4-1)+1)*2+(30/5+2)

It is very logical now, 68% it is, I agree:)

[shaffar]

dear investors

i would like to ask a further question to the investors of the torch.

what are the chances of the plot in front of the torch (old sales center) having a building in excess of 30 floors.

hoping the master developer sees since for all , the building density of the area will be phenomenal, another high rise, more traffic . i see a wide bodied low rise building, but do i look bothered, i have a perfect view of the open blue sea:no:

[True Blue]

^^ I can understand how you arrived at this figure:
=30*(30*(2+1)-30*(4-1)+1)*2+(30/5+2)

It is very logical now, 68% it is, I agree:)

Mackie, have you got access to the formula for the Sept 09 completion. My calculator is still saying early 2011.

Timeline - the project is in line with their amended timeframe - scheduled for handover at Sept 09, although could possibly happen several weeks before. No major hurdles envisaged - should be straightforward from here on in and demonstrable progress.


^^ :lol::rofl:

[Morrismarina]

BTW just heard this morning that DS have put me on gardening leave for a few weeks pending my disciplinary hearing. :lol:

[jeetha]

Morris - did you know? DS have another project up their sleeves, which will be release later this year or early next year?

[True Blue]

Dear TheLondoner, I appologise for poking fun at your earlier post. Being new to the forum you may not have noticed that we have read lots of statments from DS and their representatives before which tend to prove unreliable.

To give you a current example, look at the floor plate layout posted by Morrismarina and then read this quote from DS website;

Each of the 658 luxury apartments boast spacious balconies

As you can see 3.7m2 is not worth boasting about!

[mackie1964]

Mackie, have you got access to the formula for the Sept 09 completion. My calculator is still saying early 2011

I only attended the Wilmslow School of business for a few days, unlike Steve and Morris, they have completed all modules:)

[TheLondoner]

Dear TheLondoner, I appologise for poking fun at your earlier post. Being new to the forum you may not have noticed that we have read lots of statments from DS and their representatives before which tend to prove unreliable.

To give you a current example, look at the floor plate layout posted by Morrismarina and then read this quote from DS website;



As you can see 3.7m2 is not worth boasting about!

thats okay - it made me laugh! anyway, i thought DS had turned a new leaf based on realism??? For me, its so hard to tell, simply because i'm not an engineer or a project manager (just someone waiting an apartment to be built), so dont have the technical background to scrutinise what i'm being told, so appreciate and rely on the technical views of this forum to act as an occasional reality check!

[barry mcbarry]

You're right, I do need a new accountant! Consider that woman history!!!:lol: Apart from the UK and Japan though, things are perfectly fine, I don't pay nowhere near as much tax in Brazil or France! They don't call it rip-off Britain for nothing barry!:bash: As for Japan = :gaah: :gaah: :gaah: :ohno:

Thanks though:)

Oh hey barry, didn't you bet me you pay more tax than me? Hmmm...c'mon spill!:lol: :lol:

I actually pay no tax anywhere. Keep my readies off-shore. I'm whats known in some circles as a champagne socialist. In other circles I am known as a f**king hypocrite.:dance2:

[Morrismarina]

I actually pay no tax anywhere. Keep my readies off-shore. I'm whats known in some circles as a champagne socialist. In other circles I am known as a f**king hypocrite.:dance2:

:hilarious

[Tate]

I actually pay no tax anywhere. Keep my readies off-shore. I'm whats known in some circles as a champagne socialist. In other circles I am known as a f**king hypocrite.:dance2:

:lol: :cheers:

[smshah]

I need photos , photos photos, any news on the damn construction? build build build

[smshah]

oh yes also lets come to a finally decision .

Bay central center tower 3 bedroom marine suite 45 floor OR

48 FLOOR (54) 2 BEDROOM TORCH APARTMENT

I cant make my damn mind!

[dubaiflo]

Bay Central. NO DOUBT!

[High Times]

Stick with the Torch mate.

REASONS;

Location - Dubai Marina phase 1 the heart of the Marina now and in the future
Location - Tallest block on the planet
Location - Within The Golden circle that people seem to talk about here

View - Arguable due to plots A5c,d,e but if you get it from your floor looking down the length of the marina will be truely amazing both day and night.

Cost - You are being asked to pay AED 2.5M for a 3 bed in BC which is only 1600 sqf. You can buy a completed 3 bed for less than that in the Marina with 1800 sqf - 2000 sqf.

Rentability - If i had the choice of renting some floor space for a week, or a year i would want to be at the heart of the Marina not half way towards the belching carbon emissoins of Jebel Ali.

Against - People may say "ah but what about the hotel facilities at BC". I would say the Torch will have concierge, security, pool etc. If you want a hotel then go stay at the Hilton.

I think the only thing that bothers you is you are worried about what will rear it's ugly head on the plots on the waters edge in front of TT. I would say that this is "the gamble of property development".

Worst case scenario is you loose your Marina view. If that happens you will be no worse off than 658 other units. If they put a 60 floor tower up there i dont think that the Torch will be left empty when it is eventualy built because of it.


HT

[par4]

Bay Central is more in the heart of the marina than the Torch,hence the name Bay CENTRAL.

[High Times]

Bay Central is more in the heart of the marina than the Torch,hence the name Bay CENTRAL.

I agree Bay Central is indeed closer to the geometric center of the Marina in terms of it's location relative to the length of the Marina.

My point however was that the "Heart" of any development, particularly Dubai Marina, is not dictated by It's geometric location. It is dictaed by the most influential, important and prestigeous area.

In 5-10 years time when all the yachts are streaming into the Marina my bet is the biggest and best ones will berthed in the "HEART" of the marina or "Marina Phase 1" as it is known now. Thats the reason for the waters shape here, so that the big ones can turn easily and sea traffic can be managed. That's why the yacht club is at this end not in the center of the Marina.

Why do you think Emaar chose exactly where to have their sales office ?

They could have put it anywere they wanted including dead center of the Marina, or the aptly named arse end.

They deliberately chose the "Heart" of the Marina and in doing so reserved the prime location for their showpiece development. TBA

Lets face it, if your heart was in the center of your body it would be just above your groin.

[Anjam]

Lets face it, if your heart was in the center of your body it would be just above your groin.

^^ Thats what my girlfriends have been telling me!

[par4]

But surely if there is an arse end then the Torch must be at the hat end and Bay Central at the heart.

[FWIW]

I agree Bay Central is indeed closer to the geometric center of the Marina in terms of it's location relative to the length of the Marina.

My point however was that the "Heart" of any development, particularly Dubai Marina, is not dictated by It's geometric location. It is dictaed by the most influential, important and prestigeous area.

In 5-10 years time when all the yachts are streaming into the Marina my bet is the biggest and best ones will berthed in the "HEART" of the marina or "Marina Phase 1" as it is known now. Thats the reason for the waters shape here, so that the big ones can turn easily and sea traffic can be managed. That's why the yacht club is at this end not in the center of the Marina.

Why do you think Emaar chose exactly where to have their sales office ?

They could have put it anywere they wanted including dead center of the Marina, or the aptly named arse end.

They deliberately chose the "Heart" of the Marina and in doing so reserved the prime location for their showpiece development. TBA

Lets face it, if your heart was in the center of your body it would be just above your groin.

I heard the Yacht club will move to the center i.e. near the marina mall.

http://www.emaar.com/HospitalityGroup/yachtclub/

SunnyS

[smshah]

But surely if there is an arse end then the Torch must be at the hat end and Bay Central at the heart.



DS chose the name for bay central NOT Emaar.

being in the middle of the marina does not neccessarily mean u are in the best location (i.e bay central) The word "central" was devised by ds not Emaar.

Look at the property prices in phase 1 towers. they are the most expensive of all the apartments in the area?

why is this?

Think about it!

[Imre]

oh yes also lets come to a finally decision .

Bay central center tower 3 bedroom marine suite 45 floor OR

48 FLOOR (54) 2 BEDROOM TORCH APARTMENT

I cant make my damn mind!


If I were you ,I will buy of Emaar project like a Marina Promenade ,Park Island or Marina Quays .
DS has nothing ready , nobody knows the quality, delays etc...

[True Blue]

I heard the Yacht club will move to the center i.e. near the marina mall.


SunnyS

The yacht club is U/C and it's located between Al Majara and Marina Sail, directly accross the water from Marina promenade.

There is a lot of negatives about the tallest block remember. It is nearer the Media city than the centre of the marina. Population will be the densest in the region so getting your car out of the carpark in the morning could be a problem. There will be little sign of the skyline or sunshine which can be depressing. Anyone who has visited New York will tell you that is why Central Park is so popular, it's great to get away from the shadow of the skyscrapers and into the open occasionaly.

[AltinD]

^^ I thought here in Dubai being in the shadow is considered a good thing. :dunno:


;)

[Morrismarina]

Torch or Bay Central ?? I really don't think there's a lot in it, but IMO depends on what you want to do with the property.

If holiday lets then go for BC, the very fact that there's a hotel on site makes it very attractive from a marketing point of view. Prospective tenants will be comparing your rental rates directly with those of the hotel and booking you if you are cheaper. Also there may be a possibility of renting via the hotel as a serviced apartment - nothing guaranteed of course and many forumers will rubbish the idea, but I reckon there's an outside chance that this MAY be available if the hotel is constantly fully booked.

Long term lets, then go for Torch. I doubt there will be any difference in the rent you can command long term between the two developments. Long term renters are not going to pay any more for the hotel being nearby. Torch prices are cheaper so the yield will be higher.

If you just want to live in it yourself then weigh up the price and decide yourself. I personally wouldn't be bothered about a Marina view. But let's say they build low rise in front, you'll have a great view of the Marina and your apartment may therefore be worth same as a similar one in BC anyway.

As you've already bought in TT I would stay put and keep it. Or as has already been suggested, if you can finance it, buy in BC as well and sell either one of them on completion and bank your profit.

Good luck, you won't do much wrong whatever you decide.:cheers:

[Krazy]

BC is a better project than TT - for both investing and living

[jetsetter]

BC is a better project than TT - for both investing and living

Krazy - Could you please cut the investment talk - you're ruining the thread.

Sorry couldn't resist :lol:

[mackie1964]

@Krazy; I would like to agree on this but I can't. Deep down I know that once built, the Torch area will be a much nicer area to live in. :bash:

[Dubai_Steve]

Also BC apartment sizes are too small compared to the Torch which is what counts for living.

[Dubai_Steve]

DS has nothing ready , nobody knows the quality, delays etc...

risk = reward. Same or similar quality contractors as Emaar use though, and prices are cheaper because of the unknown, so better investment.

[Dubai_Steve]

As you've already bought in TT I would stay put and keep it. Or as has already been suggested, if you can finance it, buy in BC as well and sell either one of them on completion and bank your profit.

Good luck, you won't do much wrong whatever you decide.:cheers:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Rather than moving now, sell the Torch on completion and buy a resale in Bay Central instead, which will be cheaper because BC will still be 2 years from completion. You will save yourself a lot of money and hassle.

[Morrismarina]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Rather than moving now, sell the Torch on completion and buy a resale in Bay Central instead, which will be cheaper because BC will still be 2 years from completion. You will save yourself a lot of money and hassle.

An excellent thesis.....

I can see now Steve why you were the top student for '06 at The Wilmslow Business College.

:cheers: :banana: :nuts:

:lol:

[Krazy]

@Krazy; I would like to agree on this but I can't. Deep down I know that once built, the Torch area will be a much nicer area to live in. :bash:


Where would you rather live? In an open complex with a feeling of community and within 5 mins walking from two huge shopping malls, the beach and beach parks... or in a claustrophobic block with supertowers stacked next to each other?

[jetsetter]

A more informed judgement can be made once we know what will be built in front of TT

[Anjam]

I would only swap my Torch apartment for a tower that is nearer completion not two years behind, especially since you are shelling out an extra million. I think once the Marina is complete it will naturally split up into many communities each with their pros and cons. We can all guess what these pros and cons will be but no-one knows for sure.

There will definatly be an element of claustrophobia for those with rear facing apartments in BC. Much of the late afternoon and evening sun (the most enjoyable in Dubai) will be blocked by the JBR "Wall". Some recent pictures on this forum showed shadows from JBR extended right up to the Marina water and covering up a complete development (Park Island I think).

The idea of giving up a Torch apartment at LAUNCH prices and paying MORE money for a tower that will take an EXTRA 2 YEARS to complete is ludicrous IMO.

Like I said before, if I really wanted to live in BC no matter what I would finance the BC apartment and then sell the Torch on or near completion.

[High Times]

^^

Very sound advice in my opinion.

[True Blue]

Only thing I don't really get is the "EXTRA 2 YEARS" part.

Are we saying Bay Central is not going to be ready until 2013?

[Naz UK]

No, 2011.

[smshah]

i have made my decision

i will be sticking with the torch

[Dubai_Steve]

:banana: :cheers: :cheers: :banana:

[True Blue]

1
1
0
2
2011
20112011
201120112011
201120112011201120112011
20112011201120112011201120112011
201120112011201120112011201120112011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011


^^This building has got 2011 written all over it ^^:nuts:

[Dubai_Steve]

No, September 2009 completion, occupancy certificate by 2010.

+ Compensation is being paid from Dec 2008 while we wait :cheers:

[dubaiflo]

Krazy - Could you please cut the investment talk - you're ruining the thread.

Sorry couldn't resist :lol:

^^nice one.. ahh how i missed it :cheers:

i still say you would be much more happier with bay central..

nice work true blue.. did you employ some indian labour for it?
no mistakes to be found - which one was the snagging company?

[AltinD]

No, September 2009 completion, occupancy certificate by 2010.

+ Compensation is being paid from Dec 2008 while we wait :cheers:

Steve, sorry but I got to strongly dissagree. A Sep 2009 completition is practically impossible.

[True Blue]

Thanks Flo, all a bit of overdue fun. Viewed from 3 metres it looks fine. :lol:

Malec, watch out there's a new kid on the block ;)

[Dubai_Steve]

Steve, sorry but I got to strongly dissagree. A Sep 2009 completition is practically impossible.

I will have a bet with you and True Blue. US $1000 says that it will be ready to move in before 2011? Any takers?

[shaffar]

1
1
0
2
2011
20112011
201120112011
201120112011201120112011
20112011201120112011201120112011
201120112011201120112011201120112011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011---------------------2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011----2011----2011----2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011-2011---2011-2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011
2011==20112011=====20112011==2011


^^This building has got 2011 written all over it ^^:nuts:

rotate 180 degrees and you'll see he's taking the p***, 2010 no more :lol:

[jetsetter]

.,

[Tag_one]

No, September 2009 completion, occupancy certificate by 2010.

+ Compensation is being paid from Dec 2008 while we wait :cheers:

Indeed this tower can easily be finished in September 2009


...


The concrete part at least :lol:
No way they'll get this ready by 2009. Still it's a nice tower and I'm looking foreward to see it completed. :cheers:

[AltinD]

I will have a bet with you and True Blue. US $1000 says that it will be ready to move in before 2011? Any takers?

I spoke about 2009, I didn't say anything about 2011 but I can take a bet for a dinner at Hooters. By that time Flo should have reached the legal age and can join too. :D

[Dubai_Steve]

but there isn't going to be a hooters in Dubai now :(

[AltinD]

^^ But the bet is for 2011, isn't it? :D


EDIT: BTW, by 2011 I should be back in Vienna and Hotters there is just around the corner from the office. :lol:

[Tate]

^^ "Hotters" :lol:

Same thing though eh?:lol: :lol:

[AltinD]

^^ LOL ... well ... same no :booze:

[Tate]

^^ :lol: Hooters are the Hotters!;) :lol:

Seriously though, were Hooters planning on coming to Dubai at some point?

[High Times]

^^

You got more chance of Saddam Hussain opening up a branch of Nukes R us !!

[rexdmx]

it was stopped at the last minute
^^ :lol: Hooters are the Hotters!;) :lol:

Seriously though, were Hooters planning on coming to Dubai at some point?

[Tate]

^^

You got more chance of Saddam Hussain opening up a branch of Nukes R us !!

:lol: How about Titties R us then? :lol: That should spin a few heads in Dubai eh? :lol:

it was stopped at the last minute

Why so? Hmmm.... I suppose that was predictable in the end, huh?

[bizzybonita]

^^ :lol: :lol: shoo hyatek lool

[AltinD]

According to the latest industry speculations, Al Burj has been reduced in height (again) to 1,050 meters (850 meters roof) and a new location is being considered.

What if Nakheel buys the land from Emaar and build Al Burj on the big empty plot? Afterall where else in town would better fit a 1 km tower, then nearby the highest concentration of supertalls in the planet.

If that was the case wouldn't you all be happy? So I guess, less then 20 floors or otherwise more then 150 ... anything in between is a no no. :D

[Dubai_Steve]

Well remember that Emaar have already sold this project off and we discussed that Nakheel could be one of the few to buy it. :lol:

Quoted from Emaar

"The project no longer belongs to Emaar. It now belongs to a third party.
The third party has a right to change anything and everything they want from our initial plans"

[AltinD]

^^ So I take that as a Yes :D

[Tate]

What if Nakheel buys the land from Emaar and build Al Burj on the big empty plot? Afterall where else in town would better fit a 1 km tower, then nearby the highest concentration of supertalls in the planet.

Well, I've been thinking all day about where they could put Al Burj, if it is to be moved of course, and I keep coming back to the Marina, or very close to it. I don't know Dubai the way you do AltinD, I can only go by photos I've seen of all the various areas of the city, but I would imagine that there can't be many places you could stick a 1km tower right? It would have to go somewhere close to that super-tall block I think.... Is there any plots available to take such a building behind or close to Marina/super-tall block?

Is there any possibility that Al Burj could be placed on any of the Palms?

[luisgarciadelarosa]

guaooo its very nice

[Tate]

^^ :lol: :lol: shoo hyatek lool

I take it you're up for a job at my new business venture "Titties R us" in Dubai very shortly bizzybonita?;) :lol: :lol:

I'll PM you the audition dates as soon as I can. :lol: :lol:

:D

[Hollie Maea]

Is there any possibility that Al Burj could be placed on any of the Palms?

Originally it was indeed planned for the trunk of Palm Jumeriah, right where they are now going to build The Trump Tower (at that time it was a smaller version about 600m I think). I think one of the reasons they moved it was because it looked kind of foolish sticking up so high from the trunk, so I don't think they would put it back to such a place. Of course Palm Deira is completely different from the other two palms, so the aesthetics would be way different there. But there it would still probably face airport troubles.

[Tate]

Of course Palm Deira is completely different from the other two palms, so the aesthetics would be way different there. But there it would still probably face airport troubles.

You know, I was just thinking about Palm Deira a little while ago, and you're absolutely right, the aesthetics would be so different there compared with the other Palms. Palm Deira is just massive (same size of Jumeirah and Jebel Ali combined? well almost I think?), so if any, it would be Palm Deira that could take Al Burj. But as you say, then there could be potential problems with the airport.... It's almost like there are some deep dark forces working against Big Al....:ohno: Humm...

How would you feel about Al Burj being built anywhere near the Marina? Do you think it would completely change the entire face of that whole area/Marina? I wonder what kind of an impact it really would make there? It would dwarf even some of the other super-talls.... so I think it would be very foolish indeed to give anything less than 100% commitment when even considering such a move.

Thanks anyway mate!:)

[High Times]

According to the latest industry speculations, Al Burj has been reduced in height (again) to 1,050 meters (850 meters roof) and a new location is being considered.

What if Nakheel buys the land from Emaar and build Al Burj on the big empty plot? Afterall where else in town would better fit a 1 km tower, then nearby the highest concentration of supertalls in the planet. :D

The footprint of these plots is nowhere near big enough to accomadate Such a project.

[Morrismarina]

Crazy speculation again, but now it's getting completely ridiculous :ohno:

Why don't you post this stuff in the proper thread ??

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=438699&page=13

[smshah]

More bollocks and rubbish being written on the torch construction.

STICK TO THE TORCH!!!

[AltinD]

The footprint of these plots is nowhere near big enough to accomadate Such a project.

Yeah but the idea is such so to put shivers down your spines.

smshah: If you want to stick to The Torch why don't you provide a picture update?

[High Times]

^^

That would be nice another picture to see what floor were on now !

Maybe i can move my abacus on to the next level ??

[shaffar]

more pictures please , pretty please , pretty please with a Cherry on top.

congratulation to AltinD on his/her 11th thousand post, some achievement
:cheers1:

[Tate]

Yeah but the idea is such so to put shivers down your spines.

^^ :lol: :lol:

[Tate]

congratulation to AltinD on his/her 11th thousand post, some achievement
:cheers1:

Yes, a wonderful achievement indeed! Oh by the way, AltinD is a female, about 5' 10" tall, has beautiful long blond hair and lovely big blue eyes...oh and is quite partial to the odd glass of white wine of an evening.;)

:rofl:

[bizzybonita]

^^ someone here in half year have a great post record ....:)

[Tate]

^^ Aww.....:)

Love those jewels;) :lol:

[shaffar]

Yes, a wonderful achievement indeed! Oh by the way, AltinD is a female, about 5' 10" tall, has beautiful long blond hair and lovely big blue eyes...oh and is quite partial to the odd glass of white wine of an evening.;)

:rofl:

this AltinD sounds like an intelligent woman:wink2:

[Tate]

^^ Oh she is Shaffar, and you can PM her any time you want 'cause she's just your kind of girl;)

[Hollie Maea]

^^ But don't get any ideas...she's only 14! :lol:

[Tate]

^^ :lol: :lol:

[AltinD]

^^ Whatever ... 14 and a half actually and by the time The Torch will be handed over I will be an adult and can do whaterver I want. You mean oldies perverts :bash:

[Tate]

^^ :lol: :lol:

;)

[Sheltie]

Has anyone taken any pictures lately. I think Hate torch must be on holiday!!

[Dubai_Steve]

I think we will get one on Friday from Imre. :wink2: He needs to go to Ocean Heights to take some photos of the recent progress there.

[Naz UK]

I will soon be granted access to the Emirates Marina Tower, so should be able to get some good shots from a different angle. Yes, i'm breaking with tradition and may actually post some pics.

[Anjam]

I will soon be granted access to the Emirates Marina Tower, so should be able to get some good shots from a different angle. Yes, i'm breaking with tradition and may actually post some pics.

^^ Define soon !!!

Look forward to a masterclass in architectural photography!

[Naz UK]

Their soft launch - which will be private. Official opening delayed until Nov...so soft launch anytime between now and then.

[ocean spirit]

this AltinD sounds like an intelligent woman:wink2:

:hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:naughty: :naughty: ;)

[High Times]

I will soon be granted access to the Emirates Marina Tower, so should be able to get some good shots from a different angle. Yes, i'm breaking with tradition and may actually post some pics.

Excellent,

Will be nice to see some Torch related info on the Torch thread. :banana:

[shaffar]

^^ Whatever ... 14 and a half actually and by the time The Torch will be handed over I will be an adult and can do whaterver I want. You mean oldies perverts :bash:

apologies to the lovely AltinD, i had no idea you were so tender.
Hate torch , do the right thing :okay:

[Tate]

^^ :lol: :lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

I am getting Torch photo update withdraw symptoms.

[yecabel]

what's the story with all the rubbish posted on this thread???
why dont you guys use the private message facility or a separate chat?
apart for being totally disrespectful, your posts are so...

[shaffar]

I am getting Torch photo update withdraw symptoms.

if diagnosed at an early stage TPUWS can be cured. but one Hate Torch needs to do the right thing:okay:

[AltinD]

Indeed what's going on here? :lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

I dont' think Mr. Hate Torch is around anymore. We only have Imre now and the DS once a month updates. I will have to ween myself off TPU

[Dubai_Steve]

Indeed what's going on here? :lol:

but not as bad as the Island of Ireland thread :)

[shaffar]

what's the story with all the rubbish posted on this thread???
why dont you guys use the private message facility or a separate chat?
apart for being totally disrespectful, your posts are so...

be more specific with your finger pointing please, we r simply waiting for photographic up dates!

[Tate]

what's the story with all the rubbish posted on this thread???
why dont you guys use the private message facility or a separate chat?
apart for being totally disrespectful, your posts are so...

As you well know, people here are waiting for photo up-dates. Lighten up dude! Are you gonna grace us with a photo up-date today then? Hmmm.....

[Tate]

but not as bad as the Island of Ireland thread :)

Yeah it is pretty dire....but why aren't there any Irish people coming on there and giving their honest opinion? Strange that..... malec is Irish isn't he? What does he think of the island of Ireland? I guess it's been well established now though that it's total crap so that's that I suppose!

[malec]

What does he think of the island of Ireland?

depends which one :)

[Tate]

depends which one :)

Ah you know which one malec.;) :lol:

[DocShergar]

this AltinD sounds like an intelligent woman:wink2:

I think no on both counts :lol: :runaway:

[HateTorch]

I dont' think Mr. Hate Torch is around anymore. We only have Imre now and the DS once a month updates. I will have to ween myself off TPU

Hi,
The Torch is not higher than Heights's Level 5, but it is definitely above ground.
I have no direct access to home wifi, and the weather in Dubai is making me sticky the moment I step out of the house. And I was not in town ...

Goodoos to Imre for being the consistent photographer, despite the humid weather. Pics updates will come in tonite or tomorrow morning... Rgds.

[Stephan23]

^^THX man!!!

[Tate]

I think no on both counts :lol: :runaway:

^^ :lol: :lol:

:banana:

[AltinD]

^^ Of course: I neither "sound like" nor am I a "intelligent woman" so thee Shergar is right. :yes:



Any update? :D

[Tate]

^^ Ah but we only have your word for that mate....or is that miss?;) :lol:

.....oh okay....I believe you....but millions wouldn't:D

[Imre]

I am getting Torch photo update withdraw symptoms.

I am going there tomorrow early morning:)
yes, the core above the ground now.

[HateTorch]

16-August-2007.
http://i14.tinypic.com/66ny8w1.jpg

[HateTorch]

16-August-2007
http://i17.tinypic.com/5x3fi4i.jpg

[HateTorch]

16-August-2007
http://i14.tinypic.com/4yaeedt.jpg

[HateTorch]

16-August-2007
http://i9.tinypic.com/4l8aus8.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

Thank you ! I feel much better now.

[Rider]

HateTorch you are an absolute legend.
Your photographic efforts are very much appreciated.

Let's hope this baby sees some momentum now...

[Dubai_Steve]

So is the swimming pool is going to be at the back of the podium, furthest away from the marina ?

[Tate]

Nice pics, good to finally see it above ground:) :cheers:

[smshah]

dear investors

why is it on the pic above the right hand side of the torch the area of space is much bigger than the area of space on he left of the lift pillars.

if someone can answer this i would much appreciate this.

[Krazy]

yaay it's finally off the ground :happy:

Now bring on the 1-2 floors/week that DS promised :|

[mackie1964]

^^ You mean a floor every two weeks:bash:

It Looks like True Blue is going to be proven right and I don't like it:ohno:

[AltinD]

They will not reach the optimum speed (being 2 floors/week which will be unlikely for a concrete structure, or 1 floor/week) before rising past the podium area by a few floors.

[AltinD]

So is the swimming pool is going to be at the back of the podium, furthest away from the marina ?

Do you mean on the main road side?

[True Blue]

^^ You mean a floor every two weeks:bash:

It Looks like True Blue is going to be proven right and I don't like it:ohno:

No, DS have done me again!!

I predicted 12th residential floor by end of this year (12 floors above the podium). NO CHANCE!:bash:

Core complete on P1 and in position on P2 but floor progress only 50% of Basement level 1. Looking like 1 floor a month so podium complete by December. Maybe a couple of residential floors before the new year, fingers crossed.

[Dubai_Steve]

I think about 4 floors above podium before the end of the year but progress will be very fast from then on.

However, quite funny that first estimated completion date was June 2008.

[shaffar]

was hoping for more progress, never the less, many thanks to HateTorch :applause:

[Imre]

17/Aug/2007

The Torch

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9107/imresolt064di2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7577/imresolt100os4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2816/imresolt101tp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/2200/imresolt102ks7.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt102ks7.jpg)http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/386/imresolt103ai3.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt103ai3.jpg)http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7518/imresolt111ja1.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt111ja1.jpg)

[Joannides]

I think about 4 floors above podium before the end of the year but progress will be very fast from then on.

However, quite funny that first estimated completion date was June 2008.


June 2008 was the second estimated completion date. when they first started marketing this building, the DS sales team were claiming an end of 2007 completion!

[Gorilla]

with the current rate of progress best we can hope for is podium complete by end of 2007 and then 1 floor a week. so don't expect a handover any sooner than 2010 :nuts:

[Anjam]

So is the swimming pool is going to be at the back of the podium, furthest away from the marina ?

Yes on the side facing the road, away from the Marina.

[Anjam]

dear investors

why is it on the pic above the right hand side of the torch the area of space is much bigger than the area of space on he left of the lift pillars.

if someone can answer this i would much appreciate this.

The Tower is offset to one side to accomodate the pool.

[thedubailife]

There will be a slow down in work in a few weeks due to Ramadhan too. So Full speed work on any part of sturture on most towers not likely until mid October.

Also they have had the Summer Midday Breaks, Still decent progress.

[barry mcbarry]

June 2008 was the second estimated completion date. when they first started marketing this building, the DS sales team were claiming an end of 2007 completion!

good to have you back.

how was therapy?:nuts:

[Joannides]

good to have you back.

how was therapy?:nuts:

making progress, thanks. hopefully should be fully recovered by 2010/11:banana:

[Morrismarina]

I'm still very confident by apartment will be built by June 2008. :)

[High Times]

I'm still very confident by apartment will be built by June 2008. :)


Yes I'm sure your appartment (No. 101) will be built by then. I would hold off ordering your furniture just yet though.

Imre and Hate Torch,

Many thanks for the pics, much appreciated.

I was beggining to think i was in an msn chat room for delinquent teenagers.

I guess once Rammadan is out the way and the weather cools a bit we might start to see a floor a week then, but not before i think.

[shaffar]

I'm still very confident by apartment will be built by June 2008. :)

morrismarina, can you set milestone targets for the build that would = June2008 completion. thanks

[Dubai_Steve]

I'm still very confident by apartment will be built by June 2008. :)

Have you got a cold or have you been out drinking after work :cheers:

Talking of Friday's.. Why are there no workers on the Torch site. Can we not have a rotation scheme. :bash:

[Joannides]

morrismarina, can you set milestone targets for the build that would = June2008 completion. thanks


Shaffar,

Morris is correct - 'his' apartment will most likely be built. In fairness, he didnt say anything about the apartments above his being complete or indeed, the entire bulding:)

[charlie big potatoes]

I'm still very confident by apartment will be built by June 2008. :)

Where is your appt morris, Iris Blue?

[Morrismarina]

Shaffar,

Morris is correct - 'his' apartment will most likely be built. In fairness, he didnt say anything about the apartments above his being complete or indeed, the entire bulding:)

Correct. :lol:

[barry mcbarry]

morrismarina, can you set milestone targets for the build that would = June2008 completion. thanks

august 2007- apartment not yet built

january 2008- apartment almost built

june 2008- apartment built

satisfied?:dance2:

[Dubai_Steve]

The DCE board says there are 750 days left till completion. I take it this means working days. If they do not work on Fridays then 750 days from now means End of January 2010. Allowing for some problems and waiting for completion certificate this means around middle of 2010.

Can someone confirm if they are working on fridays?

[True Blue]

Steve, there is no one to be seen in Imre's friday pics. I think that answers your question.

Having looked at Imre's pics again I now realise that I have missed out the ground floor in my progress assesment. Should have read slip form in position at P1 and not P2. Oops!

[shaffar]

Correct. :lol:

:lol:

[Tate]

I'm still very confident by apartment will be built by June 2008. :)

And if your apartment is completed by then are you going to move right in? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Morrismarina]

Okay there's no work being done on Fridays. Now whether this is a bad thing depends on your point of view:

A) Dubai Select have stated that there was an accelerated building programme in place. Obviously this is not the case as nothing is being done on a Friday and hence this is not acceptable. Investors are losing substantial sums of money due to the delays and workers should be made to work Fridays immediately.

B) the ethnic workers are already very stretched working umpteen hours a day in very bad conditions, surely they are entitled to their one day off each week. DS could not possibly insist that DCE confiscate their one day off and make them work 7 days a week, this would be against their human rights. Torch investors would be up in arms as we all know they are more than happy to wait a few extra months for completion, content that workers were being treated fairly.

So .......who's in camp A and who Camp B ??

[smshah]

Okay there's no work being done on Fridays. Now whether this is a bad thing depends on your point of view:

A) Dubai Select have stated that there was an accelerated building programme in place. Obviously this is not the case as nothing is being done on a Friday and hence this is not acceptable. Investors are losing substantial sums of money due to the delays and workers should be made to work Fridays immediately.

B) the ethnic workers are already very stretched working umpteen hours a day in very bad conditions, surely they are entitled to their one day off each week. DS could not possibly insist that DCE confiscate their one day off and make them work 7 days a week, this would be against their human rights. Torch investors would be up in arms as we all know they are more than happy to wait a few extra months for completion, content that workers were being treated fairly.

So .......who's in camp A and who Camp B ??


Morris morris morris!

They are counting Friday as a working day. Look at the DCE board stating how many days left, they haft counter friday as a working day
evidence is below (calculate the number of days a syou see they have incuded friday's.

http://i18.tinypic.com/6g8m61t.jpg

http://i14.tinypic.com/6bombdj.jpg

[Tractor]

Duh, they don't have to use the same workers for a Friday as they do the other 6 days of the week.

Its something magical called 'shift work'. Only reason not to do it is money in my opinion.

[smshah]

from the 2 of august to he 16 of august there is a total of 14 days.

on the 2/08/07 days lapsed = 240 days remaining = 765

on the 16/08/07 days lapsed= 254 days remaining - 751.

765 minus 751 = 14 days !!!

They have included fridays in their days remaining. First we should work it out and then we accuse DS. I understand DS are slow but these accusations of friday not being counted just makes other investors worry.

[Morrismarina]

Duh, they don't have to use the same workers for a Friday as they do the other 6 days of the week.

Its something magical called 'shift work'. Only reason not to do it is money in my opinion.

Isn't Friday the Islamic religious day and therefore unfair to make them work on such a day or, should we not give a fxxk about their religion ??

Regarding the contractors board, to be fair they're obviously including Fridays as there are 7 days in a week, the number of days remaining does NOT state "working days".

[barry mcbarry]

The DCE board says there are 750 days left till completion. I take it this means working days. If they do not work on Fridays then 750 days from now means End of January 2010. Allowing for some problems and waiting for completion certificate this means around middle of 2010.

Can someone confirm if they are working on fridays?

word on the street is that they are using the little known wahnsinnige exzentriker calendar, which utilises the 72 hour day. the torch will therefore be completed in the fall of 2013:cheers1: .

[True Blue]

Isn't Friday the Islamic religious day and therefore unfair to make them work on such a day or, should we not give a fxxk about their religion ??

Regarding the contractors board, to be fair they're obviously including Fridays as there are 7 days in a week, the number of days remaining does NOT state "working days".

I thought it was labour from the Indian sub continent that was being employed here?

[Morrismarina]

I thought it was labour from the Indian sub continent that was being employed here?


Would this mean the workforce are not Muslims then ?? Perhaps Hindu ??

[Naz UK]

Isn't Friday a public holiday in Dubai??? Or have we gone mad, by expecting the labour force to work 7 days a week now?

[mackie1964]

We were not the ones who boasted about the rescue plan with 24/7 working hours to recover the programme.

Let me repeat this once more, Shifts and rotation systems have been and are at present used very successfully (without exploiting workers) all over the world in countries with climate much worse than Dubai.

The truth seems to be that people will make-up any excuses up to suit their projects rather than be upfront about things. :ohno:

[Morrismarina]

For those with a keen eye......... how generally is TT construction progressing when compared to other similar sites. ie. Princess, Marina 23, Mag 218, Trident Grand ?? Slower, the same or faster ?? (Honest opinions please).

[Imre]

maybe faster or same as the Trident Grand:) CSHK is very slow , they have chinese workers, just see how slow the Armada Towers at the JLT site.

MAG is faster , Marina 23 has already overtaken, Princess will be overtaking soon.

[Tractor]

Isn't Friday the Islamic religious day and therefore unfair to make them work on such a day or, should we not give a fxxk about their religion ??

Regarding the contractors board, to be fair they're obviously including Fridays as there are 7 days in a week, the number of days remaining does NOT state "working days".

You're really searching hard for an excuse for this when there is none. Are all workers Mulsims? Of course not. Do all Muslim countries stop work on Friday? Of course not.

Are other sites working on Fridays? Yes.
Why isn't DS? Dunno.

[Dubai_Steve]

The should definately be working on Fridays. By taking 1 day off per week we will an extra 5 months later than planned, costing on average £9000 per investor. There is NO excuse for not working on Friday because they should employ extra staff and be working in shifts 24/7, or as near as is possible. Other developments seems to be doing this so why is the Torch an exception ?

Surely DS will save a lot in the compensation that they will have to pay to investors by bringing the date 5 months earlier ?

[Mistermark]

It's clear from the calculations that DS workers *are* there on Fridays. But what about Saturdays, Sundays and 24hrs a day (which was promised)?

We all risk being heavily out of pocket as this project will be delivered at least a year late and possibly two or more and I for one will be very angry if DS haven't pulled out all the steps to reduce the problem as far as possible.

[Krazy]

You guys keep saying that 'other developments' are going 24/7.. besides the Marina Mall in Marina, which other development is going on 24/7?

[rugbytommy]

none...

[Tate]

You guys keep saying that 'other developments' are going 24/7.. besides the Marina Mall in Marina, which other development is going on 24/7?

none...

That's true! If they were all going 24/7 you wouldn't be having the discussions/problems you're all having right now!

[Dubai_Steve]

Even ocean heights has workers on Friday.

[Morrismarina]

DS - 23rd November 2006
"We look forward to the development becoming visible above ground in the New Year"

So DS were correct, the development is now visible above ground - the core is actually way above ground level. (The "New Year" being 2007).

Can't see what everybody is complaining about. :ohno:

[Dubai_Steve]

^^

Select Property believes strongly in the people within our business. If you believe you have something you can add to our organisation we would encourage you to e-mail your full CV to careers@selectproperty.com

[Tate]

Even ocean heights has workers on Friday.

Why is everyone here becoming obsessed with FRIDAY? :bash: If people really want to now why there is no activity at the Torch site on a friday then why not just ask DS? Or has anyone here actually done that yet? If so, what did they say?
I mean it's coming to something when people on this forum who actually live in Dubai can't say without absolute certainty whether friday in Dubai is a holiday, or what? How is that possible?:bash: Of course, there is a thing called "shift work/rotation" and using different workers....so religion shouldn't really play a part in it.... Must be about money. Muslims and Hindus do work on a friday in some countries, but I can't speak for Dubai.... Not saying all the labour are Muslims and Hindus of course. But it's strange how no-one here seems to know that though? :ohno:

DS - 23rd November 2006
"We look forward to the development becoming visible above ground in the New Year"

So DS were correct, the development is now visible above ground - the core is actually way above ground level. (The "New Year" being 2007).

Can't see what everybody is complaining about.

I know you're an investor at the Torch morris, so the bottom line here is are you happy with the progress to date? If you are then who cares, right? The core is well above ground so things are going in the right direction at least! What development in Dubai is on schedule anyway? It's simply not possible to build on this scale and to keep everything perfectly on track!

[Krazy]

Even ocean heights has workers on Friday.

How long did it take for OH to start ACTUAL WORK after launching the project? Also, we'll see how long them working on fridays lasts.

Which other project in Dubai Marina do you see with work going on 24/7?

[Morrismarina]

Torch completion date....Friday 13th September 2009



:lol:

[True Blue]

Torch completion date....Friday 13th September 2009



:lol:

Don't panic, it won't happen :lol:

[Andromeda]

I bought in another building a few months before the torch was launched and I am very happy.
The completion, which is due at the end of this month, is only 8 months late, which I fully expected.

Thinking about buying another apartment and having some experience I looked at buying in the torch but the sales team left me cold, I felt they would say anything to make a sale.

They are just a good sales company and not much more.

I will be interested to see how you all progress.

[Anjam]

Would this mean the workforce are not Muslims then ?? Perhaps Hindu ??

Morris FYI, India has nearly as many Muslims as Pakistan. Many of the Indian workforce will be Muslims. Not that religion matters, it should be the indivduals choice whether or not they want to work on a Friday.

In the case of the Torch workforce not being visible on Fridays, as Krazy says, I don't think tere are many sites that have a full work force deployed on a Friday. When I was there last the only guys I saw working on Fridays on other sites were carrying brooms and wheel barrows.
I don't think it is as easy as putting together a team of workmen, I suppose you need the site managers/engineers, site safety engineers, crane operators, digger/dozer and other machine operators etc etc.

Finally I am a bit confused and hopefully someone here will put me straight, why are people saying DS are not putting people on the site on a Friday? Surely it is not their call. They have awarded a contract to DCE to build the tower for a given amount by a given date that only DCE and DS know. Surely it is up to DCE who they put on the site and when? If they can get away with using a single bloke and a shovel and deliver the building within the agreed timeframe then that is what they will do.

I think some of you are giving DS more credit than they deserve for running the show. If they knew how to manage a construction site, workforce and supply chain etc they would have built the bloody thing themselves.

DS are like the gorgeous girl at my local Lexus garage. She knows how to sell a car and which buttons to push to get me to sign on the dotted line but once I have signed her job is done. I had to explain to her how the Hybrid system worked.

Ok so I maybe over simplifying things but it's late and I can't think of another example.

BTW Torch owners do you think we can put together a list of things we are going to whinge about and then rotate them over the next two years. Looks like we are doing the Friday workforce this week, maybe next week we can do the single outdoor swiming pool and then move onto the obstructed Marina views by the unknown tower. After that we can go back to counting the number of workers on site during Ramadan. Maybe in a month or so we can whinge about the bathroom fittings again.

Off to bed now, maybe I will wake up with a clearer head!

[Tate]

Well one thing is for sure, whether the work force are Muslim or Hindu, whether they work on a friday or not, they all seem to be getting it up the ass! I hear nothing but bad news coming out of Dubai as far as the treatment of these workers are concerned. As much as I admire what's happening in Dubai....it's very clear that there is a great deal of exploitation going on here as well! I can't confirm any of this as I do not live in Dubai....but I do talk with a lot of people who come and go on a regular basis and they tell me the workers there are treated like crap.... I've also been told that Dubai people/natives are extremely racist towards Indians in particular....can anyone confirm this to be true, or just shite? I hear of workers been threatened with deportation and even jail if they complain about conditions....:ohno: I suppose once the work is completed then those "guests" in Dubai can take a hike back to wherever they come from.... As I am someone who will be investing quite heavily in Dubai it would be nice to know what the situation is.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ DCE treat their workers quite well as we can see by the continuous lack of workers on site. There is a separate thread about workers in general, please use that not the torch thread.

[High Times]

Whilst the conditions of work in Dubai would not meet the standards of many of the UK & US trade unions or indeed the Health & Safety executive. Paradoxicaly this is one of the main reasons why most of us 'investors' have decided to invest.

Its called capitalism. We in the west in comparison to the migrant workers of Dubai are very wealthy people, who are all trying to make even more money than we already have to satisfy our greed and lust for money.

All of the workers in Dubai regardless of their country of origin or religion are also there for money but the difference is they are sending back most of their wages to support famillies back home.

When i was last in Dubai (May 07) i took the time to speak to some of the workers who came from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. I have to say that most of them were happy to be able to earn a living as their situations back home were a lot worse than working 14 hour days in the blazing heat. They had no way of earning a living at all. If you speak to 10 taxi drivers in Dubai then 7/8 of them will have started life in construction in Dubai and were lucky enough or wise enough to find alternative employment.

If you ask me if workers should be made to work on their religious holiday then i would say that no-one should be 'made' to work at all, ultimately they all have the choice to work when they please and if they dont like whats on offer then they can all leave freely.

If you are an investor in Dubai then you have played your part in the exploitation of 3rd world economics and it's a bit late to have a conscience attack now.

On the other hand you can sleep soundly knowing that your investment is indirectly funding local economies in india, pakistan, etc as the wages will eventually filter through to the workers home towns.

Oh yeah, and the reason there is no progress on the Torch on a Friday is that 80% of the DCE staff are at Wild Wadi having a blast.

[Morrismarina]

Well one thing is for sure, whether the work force are Muslim or Hindu, whether they work on a friday or not, they all seem to be getting it up the ass! I hear nothing but bad news coming out of Dubai as far as the treatment of these workers are concerned. As much as I admire what's happening in Dubai....it's very clear that there is a great deal of exploitation going on here as well! I can't confirm any of this as I do not live in Dubai....but I do talk with a lot of people who come and go on a regular basis and they tell me the workers there are treated like crap.... I've also been told that Dubai people/natives are extremely racist towards Indians in particular....can anyone confirm this to be true, or just shite? I hear of workers been threatened with deportation and even jail if they complain about conditions....:ohno: I suppose once the work is completed then those "guests" in Dubai can take a hike back to wherever they come from.... As I am someone who will be investing quite heavily in Dubai it would be nice to know what the situation is.

Yes you're absolutely correct they're treated like shite in Dubai. Forget the fantastic profit that's to be made, I recommend you invest elsewhere.:lol:

[buster007]

Well one thing is for sure, whether the work force are Muslim or Hindu, whether they work on a friday or not, they all seem to be getting it up the ass! I hear nothing but bad news coming out of Dubai as far as the treatment of these workers are concerned. As much as I admire what's happening in Dubai....it's very clear that there is a great deal of exploitation going on here as well! I can't confirm any of this as I do not live in Dubai....but I do talk with a lot of people who come and go on a regular basis and they tell me the workers there are treated like crap.... I've also been told that Dubai people/natives are extremely racist towards Indians in particular....can anyone confirm this to be true, or just shite? I hear of workers been threatened with deportation and even jail if they complain about conditions....:ohno: I suppose once the work is completed then those "guests" in Dubai can take a hike back to wherever they come from.... As I am someone who will be investing quite heavily in Dubai it would be nice to know what the situation is.


Al Jazeera takes a revealing look at the appalling conditions facing many of the 10 million Asian labourers in the Gulf, most of whom come from Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. During a three month investigation, ...

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E5FD9F11-0CC1-4596-8F4D-320DE62E6148.htm

Follow the link at the end of the article to watch report on YouTube.

[buster007]

I bought in another building a few months before the torch was launched and I am very happy.
The completion, which is due at the end of this month, is only 8 months late, which I fully expected.

Thinking about buying another apartment and having some experience I looked at buying in the torch but the sales team left me cold, I felt they would say anything to make a sale.

They are just a good sales company and not much more.

I will be interested to see how you all progress.

Indeed. They ceratinly have a good sales team but sadly, we won't be seeing a completed building from them within the next two years. Friday 13 2009 - :nuts: . Marina diamond group could launch a project today, and I bet it would be completed before the Torch. Nevertheless, I can always count on Morrissman coming up with excuses to promote their lacklustre efforts.

[shaffar]

Well one thing is for sure, whether the work force are Muslim or Hindu, whether they work on a friday or not, they all seem to be getting it up the ass! I hear nothing but bad news coming out of Dubai as far as the treatment of these workers are concerned. As much as I admire what's happening in Dubai....it's very clear that there is a great deal of exploitation going on here as well! I can't confirm any of this as I do not live in Dubai....but I do talk with a lot of people who come and go on a regular basis and they tell me the workers there are treated like crap.... I've also been told that Dubai people/natives are extremely racist towards Indians in particular....can anyone confirm this to be true, or just shite? I hear of workers been threatened with deportation and even jail if they complain about conditions....:ohno: I suppose once the work is completed then those "guests" in Dubai can take a hike back to wherever they come from.... As I am someone who will be investing quite heavily in Dubai it would be nice to know what the situation is.


must learn to walk before running. reality is, workers travel to Dubai because the economies back home have no jobs for them, the pay & somewhat conditions can not be compared to that of the west, that is plain naive.
sleep well knowing that A monetary part of your investment in Dubai , went to India/others & helped
room for improvement ,no doubt

[Gorilla]

every possible topic is discussed here except construction :bash:

[rugbytommy]

Even ocean heights has workers on Friday.

I've seen them working late on friday only once , the other times no or very little activity...

[barry mcbarry]

every possible topic is discussed here except construction :bash:

there's no way that was a penalty at anfield yesterday but its about time the scouser thieves got a dose of their own medicine. we've been screwed out of 2 champions league finals thanks to dodgy kop-driven refereeing decisions at that north west pit hole. justice is sweet! listen to them bleat and whine like little girls. its beautiful!:banana:

ps what do people think about a petition to replace the "torch" motif at the top of this building with the chelsea logo? maybe abramovich will sponsor it.:cheers:

[bizzybonita]

every possible topic is discussed here except construction :bash:

DS what u waiting for them ..be paitent coz they are working right now :lol: :lol:

[billyboy360]

80% of the population in Dubai have Fridays off, for the majority of low paid workers this is their only day off.

I can't see the point in DCE working on a Friday as it would be very difficult to get deliveries of materials and concrete on a Friday.

[High Times]

there's no way that was a penalty at anfield yesterday but its about time the scouser thieves got a dose of their own medicine. we've been screwed out of 2 champions league finals thanks to dodgy kop-driven refereeing decisions at that north west pit hole. justice is sweet! listen to them bleat and whine like little girls. its beautiful!:banana:

ps what do people think about a petition to replace the "torch" motif at the top of this building with the chelsea logo? maybe abramovich will sponsor it.:cheers:

Funniest post ever. Well done Barry you have truelly surpassed yourself.

Come on you Blues !!

[Tate]

there's no way that was a penalty at anfield yesterday but its about time the scouser thieves got a dose of their own medicine. we've been screwed out of 2 champions league finals thanks to dodgy kop-driven refereeing decisions at that north west pit hole. justice is sweet! listen to them bleat and whine like little girls. its beautiful!:banana:

ps what do people think about a petition to replace the "torch" motif at the top of this building with the chelsea logo? maybe abramovich will sponsor it.:cheers:

^^ :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You've finally put the last nail in the coffin for this thread! Nice one barry!:hilarious :hilarious :hilarious

I tip my hat to you!:cheers:

[Tate]

^^ DCE treat their workers quite well as we can see by the continuous lack of workers on site. There is a separate thread about workers in general, please use that not the torch thread.

Yeah I know there is a seperate thread about the workers Steve, I just though I'd mention this because almost everyone here seems to be continuously talking about "fridays" and the "workers".... among other things also.... I just find it very odd that those people here on this forum who live in Dubai couldn't come up with any plausible or satisfactory answers....???

[Tate]

Whilst the conditions of work in Dubai would not meet the standards of many of the UK & US trade unions or indeed the Health & Safety executive. Paradoxicaly this is one of the main reasons why most of us 'investors' have decided to invest.

Its called capitalism. We in the west in comparison to the migrant workers of Dubai are very wealthy people, who are all trying to make even more money than we already have to satisfy our greed and lust for money.

All of the workers in Dubai regardless of their country of origin or religion are also there for money but the difference is they are sending back most of their wages to support famillies back home.

When i was last in Dubai (May 07) i took the time to speak to some of the workers who came from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. I have to say that most of them were happy to be able to earn a living as their situations back home were a lot worse than working 14 hour days in the blazing heat. They had no way of earning a living at all. If you speak to 10 taxi drivers in Dubai then 7/8 of them will have started life in construction in Dubai and were lucky enough or wise enough to find alternative employment.

If you ask me if workers should be made to work on their religious holiday then i would say that no-one should be 'made' to work at all, ultimately they all have the choice to work when they please and if they dont like whats on offer then they can all leave freely.

If you are an investor in Dubai then you have played your part in the exploitation of 3rd world economics and it's a bit late to have a conscience attack now.

On the other hand you can sleep soundly knowing that your investment is indirectly funding local economies in india, pakistan, etc as the wages will eventually filter through to the workers home towns.

Oh yeah, and the reason there is no progress on the Torch on a Friday is that 80% of the DCE staff are at Wild Wadi having a blast.

Couldn't agree more! I know these guys are not in Dubai for the fun of it, and whatever the conditions there it is nice to know that at least they can earn enough money to send back to their families in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or wherever they happen to come from. That's the most important thing for these workers surely....

And yes, I'm very aware of the fact that by investing in Dubai I am also playing my part in the exploitation of these workers....it's something we all have to deal with in our own way I suppose....our own greed here in the west for more and more still. I guess you have to take comfort in the fact though that these guys are better off because of our investments - no-matter how small it may seem in the end - than they would be back in their home towns/villages where they would be earning close to nothing. For me personally, I'm just happy that they can at least earn money to send home to their families....but I for one wouldn't mind paying that little bit more on my investments if these guys can earn better wages. Of course, I am an investor, have been most of my life, and I didn't come down in the last shower either so I do know where the vast majority of my money will end up!

[Dex]

It's design is not very original

Greetings!