^^ :lol:

Yeah it sure is gone :crazy2: around here.:nuts: :lol:

Some Torch pics here, posted by Imre of course (Aug 16th, most recent I believe).... just to get us back on track. Core well above ground anyway!:banana: It would be nice to get another update very soon....:)

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4688/imresolt064di2sh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5856/imresolt101tp5cz4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6360/imresolt111ja1jo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1722/imresolt100os4nh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4048/torchvg2.th.png (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torchvg2.png)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6360/imresolt111ja1jo7.jpg[/IMG] (http://imageshack.us)

Nice to see they're keeping the site neat and tidy. :lol:

Totally agree with you here mate, personally I've never liked this building. Sorry Torch investors, no offence intended, I wish you all the very best of course....but I just can't seem to warm to this building.... Fantastic location though! Best thing going for the Torch is that it has 84 floors and it just happens to be apart of this super-tall block! :banana:

^^ You are not too sure about investing in Dubai, you don't like the Torch, can I ask why every second post in this thread appears to be yours? If you want general conversation to increase your post count you may want to pop over to the majlis and give this thread a break.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4048/torchvg2.th.png (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torchvg2.png)

Thanks Gorilla, when is that picture from?

OK, seriously this shit has to stop.
This thread has to get back on topic or else I'll close it just like Krazy closed the wind towers thread.
I'm gonna delete all the crap posted from the last few days now.

Tate, especially you. Please stop posting offtopic stuff in various threads. Sure one or two posts are OK but not when it goes on and on.
This thread's a joke!

Project: The Torch
Type: Residential
Developer: Dubai Select
Floor Count: 84
Height: 345m to spire (subject to change)
Status: Under Construction
Construction Start: 2005
Construction End: 2009 (tentative)

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5545/torchmz2.jpg


Link to Part 4 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=426477)



Latest updates by Imre from 17/Aug/2007

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9107/imresolt064di2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7577/imresolt100os4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2816/imresolt101tp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/2200/imresolt102ks7.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt102ks7.jpg)http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/386/imresolt103ai3.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt103ai3.jpg)http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7518/imresolt111ja1.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt111ja1.jpg)

I went through some of the old thread and couldn't believe the amount of crap posted so I got bored of deleting posts and created this new thread. Please, a joke every now and then is fine but don't destroy the thread with endless drivel.

Thanks Malec.

Fair enough malec, no problem here. :cheers:

Is it just me or do both the torch and 23 marina have very similar core configurations.

Is it me or does the Torch and 23 Marina have similar construction companies both displaying DCE in huge letters?

Does anyone know at what stage DCE will start to put floor numbers on the Core as i have seen on other buildings in Dubai. Will it be when they reach the 1st residential floor ?

24/Aug/2007

The Torch

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7383/imresolt037wj1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9428/imresolt038fw9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7326/imresolt039gc0.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt039gc0.jpg)http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9445/imresolt040xd4.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt040xd4.jpg)http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/104/imresolt046xx1.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt046xx1.jpg)

Thanks Imre!
Good progress on the core, shame the floor slabs are lagging a bit.

Is it me or does the Torch and 23 Marina have similar construction companies both displaying DCE in huge letters?

No, I'm happy to say you're in your right mind Naz.

You're right about the similarities in core configurations too. :)

Thanks Imre!
Good progress on the core, shame the floor slabs are lagging a bit.

The core looks to be in the same position as last week? :dunno:

All the DCE worker are at TimePlace site :lol:

The core looks to be in the same position as last week? :dunno:

You seem to be the same as last week too. :dunno: :D

the core is up by 1 floor.:)

^^ whataa nice progress :laugh:

The core looks to be in the same position as last week? :dunno:

^^ By golly True Blue, you may actually be right for a change :D
My mistake:bash:

the core is up by 1 floor.:)


So would you agree that the core is now on the 3rd floor above ground from the marina side ?

sure!, if you look closely at the core, i think the third floor is setting or set already under the metal skirting, and the new metal cage for the forth floor is in place ready for pouring.:colgate:

are their at dce workers on site at the torch at the moment or have they all been moved to timeplace?

serious replies only please no crap or jokes, this is the torch forum,

So if the Torch is 82 floors in total, 73 floors of units + duplex penthouses thats 75 residential floors in total.

That makes 7 floors above ground before residential units are built.

Were now on the 4th floor so could possibly see the core of floor (01residential) by October.



Subject of course to Ramadan, heat, friday prayers and force majeure. :ohno:

So if the Torch is 82 floors in total, 73 floors of units + duplex penthouses thats 75 residential floors in total.

That makes 7 floors above ground before residential units are built.

Were now on the 4th floor so could possibly see the core of floor (01residential) by October.



Subject of course to Ramadan, heat, friday prayers and force majeure. :ohno:

I'm sure the latest floor count is 86 in total. 4 floors below ground plus 82 above. (If you count the floors in the new render there are 82 above ground). In a recent article mentioned on this thread a couple of months ago DS confirmed a total of 86 floors.
There are 4 above ground podium floors for car parking plus leisure deck on 5th floor which is called the "Lower Plaza", the next floor is the first residential floor known as "Upper Plaza". And the following residential floor is numbered Floor 1 and so on..... (So the floor numbered Floor 1 is actually the seventh floor from the ground, if that makes sense).

^^

Thanks Morris i wasn't 100% sure of when the 01 floor would begin.

Cheers. :cheers:

are their at dce workers on site at the torch at the moment or have they all been moved to timeplace?

serious replies only please no crap or jokes, this is the torch forum,


what an excellent question, in keeping with the new look high brow very sensible deep thinkers only torch thread.

they've all moved to time place:stupid:

any new news on the plot in front of the torch? what are the chance of their being a tall building 50+

serious replies only please

what an excellent question, in keeping with the new look high brow very sensible deep thinkers only torch thread.

they've all moved to time place:stupid:

:lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=15033096#post15033096


Post here.

this is the absolute LAST warning for this thread, after all the crap that's been posted here for ages, we have now reached a point where the tolerance level for shit posted here is very low amongst the moderators. Call us bossy or whatever it is you want to call us.. but be sure that this thread will indeed be locked if the nonsense doesn't stop. We are not here to keep cleaning after your mess.

If this thread doesn't get back on track, we'll close it and will only have a thread where we'll post only construction updates - no discussion posts will be allowed.

Lets hope that the construction of the Torch Tower is less problematic than the Torch Thread..................

Morris have you heard back from DS regarding how Escrow effects the Torch ?

I know that you asked someone and wandered if you had a reply yet ?

Cheers,

Following The Torch’s accelerated construction schedule the tower is now visible well above ground level.

Pictured below are the towers lift entrances.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3803/image001zg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Torch’s major structural columns are now well above ground level.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4702/image002hr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Below; the central core of The Torch is visible from the viewing deck.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4762/image003gn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Below, the concrete pump can be seen mounted on the top of the core.

This pump will follow the construction level of the building and be used to pump concrete,
as the building will soon be too tall too use the mobile concrete pumps.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9315/image004hy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Table form work is currently being put in place which will form the ground floor when complete.

This is the scaffolding that supports the concrete floor until the concrete has been poured and set.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/761/image005bd8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

First images of the lift lobby of The Torch taken from the ground floor.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5544/image006mu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Lets hope that the construction of the Torch Tower is less problematic than the Torch Thread..................

Morris have you heard back from DS regarding how Escrow effects the Torch ?

I know that you asked someone and wandered if you had a reply yet ?

Cheers,


I have received a reply basically saying that that the policies and procedures of the Land department in relation to escrow accounts are not yet known. And that they will keep me informed.

Seems nobody is clear as to whether or how the escrow law applies to existing developments.

This tends to be a usual occurance with any new law passed in Dubai. For a few months, only a handful of people (normally the ones sat around the table during the brainstorming sessions) know exactly what the F**k is going on. No doubt, in the coming months things will become a little bit clearer.

Morris have you heard back from DS regarding how Escrow effects the Torch ?

I know that you asked someone and wandered if you had a reply yet ?

Cheers,

This news story expains how it should work. I am not sure how Select Property will manage this for the Torch. It is a bit worrying.



The Land Department said sales for all projects in Dubai, even those launched before the law came into effect on June 28, will have to go through escrow accounts by December 28, 2007.

For developments where off-plan sales have not yet started, an escrow account will need to be opened before sales start. Developments where off-plan sales have already started could fall in three categories:

1. Developers with project that are 70-80 per cent complete will not have to open an escrow account.

2. Projects where work has started on site and crossed the shoring stage, will need an account by December 28.

3. 'Projects that have not reached the shoring stage will need an escrow account immediately'.

31/Aug/2007

The Torch

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4376/imresolt023nr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/5089/imresolt041wy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/1409/imresolt043rk3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/9118/imresolt044ng8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^

Thanks for the pics Imre.

I have to say i am dissapointed with progress as nothing seems to have happened in a week.

Dont know how other investors feel about this ?

I had a look at the Iris Blue thread the other day and that tower seemed to shoot up out of the ground like it was fuelled with cemtex.

Unless something changes quickly then were gonna be looking at 2010 before we get any keys on this one I'm afriad.

are their currently any consturction workers on the site?

are their currently any consturction workers on the site?

^^ It's Friday so I doubt it.

^^ sorry i meant has their been any constuctions on the torch site for the past week?

This weekend it will be exactly four months since the slab was poured. Has progress been good since then or should we expect to be further ahead than this ??

^^

When i was on site in May i was told that the podium would be completed by September and residential floors would be progressing at 1 floor per week after this.

On this basis i would suggest that progress is 6-8 weeks behined.

Having said that i am certainly no construction expert and can only go by what i have been told.

If you want to see how quickly a tower SHOULD be progressing - just check the Princess Tower thread.

Seems like either DS or the contractor are holding this one back :(

^^

When i was on site in May i was told that the podium would be completed by September and residential floors would be progressing at 1 floor per week after this.

On this basis i would suggest that progress is 6-8 weeks behined.

Having said that i am certainly no construction expert and can only go by what i have been told.

I'm no expert either, but what we do know then is that it's definitely quite a bit behind schedule .........so much for the accelerated building programme..........what a joke. :lol:

I wonder what the problem is here ??

Am I the only one here who realizes that DS is not a proven developer and that delays like these shud be most expected as it's the norm in the Dubai, and that TT investors should be GLAD that their project is at least moving ahead and not in the dumps like some Wind Towers or Dubai Lagoon?

Get over it people. This is Dubai.

If you do realise this Krazy, Why not open a thread under the title BUYER BEWARE many of the forums have concerned participants, and pulled together in one thread might just perform a social justice.Me I am too scared to talk out of line.

^^ Yeah! good idea.
A thread, where no cut and paste allowed - General Buyer’s Guide.
“Watch out! cowboy’s developers about”.

Am I the only one here who realizes that DS is not a proven developer and that delays like these shud be most expected as it's the norm in the Dubai, and that TT investors should be GLAD that their project is at least moving ahead and not in the dumps like some Wind Towers or Dubai Lagoon?

Get over it people. This is Dubai.

Whilst i agree that delays are the norm in Dubai and DS are virgin developers, as far as I'm concerned its all about 'expectation management'.

Someone somewhere in DS has a progress chart which shows where the development shoud be from now until Sept 09 'contractual completion date'.

Now if the build is not on schedule then someone needs to update investors with valid reasons for this with proposals to get back on track.

This is where DS are going wrong IMO.

As long as i know how delayed things are and why the delays have occured i dont realy mind as i dont expect to get my keys until 2nd/3rd quarter in 2010 anyway.

It would just be nice to know why things are going so slowly.

Anjam, you know someone at DCE dont you? - can't you ask them where progress stands against their project plan and why things arent moving very quickly? it would be good to have some REALISTIC expectations set. is that possibe?

the other important thing is our their any construction workers on site at the moment?

01/09/2006

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6349/ttsept06ad7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




01/09/2007

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6357/ttsept07uy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It is important to realise that the amount of work below ground has been immense, and takes far proportionally longer than once the building is 'out of the ground'.

From all the photographs, the Torch consistently has the appearance of a tidy, well organised site, and the quality of the work appears to be very good. It should start moving a lot quicker once another two or three levels have been added.

Someone somewhere in DS has a progress chart which shows where the development shoud be from now until Sept 09 'contractual completion date'.

Now if the build is not on schedule then someone needs to update investors with valid reasons for this with proposals to get back on track.




again, this is dubai...still an immature market

It is important to realise that the amount of work below ground has been immense, and takes far proportionally longer than once the building is 'out of the ground'.

From all the photographs, the Torch consistently has the appearance of a tidy, well organised site, and the quality of the work appears to be very good. It should start moving a lot quicker once another two or three levels have been added.


Yes that's true.......they've had for example car parking ramps to build and probably a lot more other work than we're aware of. Also the last three months have been very hot but as we're now into September should be cooling down now. (My concern was that looking at the present progress it seemed we were way off track for Sept'09 completion).

the other important thing is our their any construction workers on site at the moment?

yes, dont worry about this , only Friday is off.

The contractors seem to always promise the developers they will catch up on the build schedule during the build process. I have heard this happening with a few developers.

One development had a three month delay due to a waterproofing problem, the contractor made up the time by about floor 20.

There is hope for Torch yet.

Anjam, you know someone at DCE dont you? - can't you ask them where progress stands against their project plan and why things arent moving very quickly? it would be good to have some REALISTIC expectations set. is that possibe?

^^ I already emailed him Friday when I saw Imre's update! I'll let you know when I hear back.

Anjam

If you want to see how quickly a tower SHOULD be progressing - just check the Princess Tower thread.

Seems like either DS or the contractor are holding this one back :(

^^ After reading your post I popped over to the Princess Tower thread and now I am not so dissapointed in the progress on the Torch. The Princess Tower slab was poured about 45 days after the Torch slab. It has a much smaller podium and appears to have a much simpler core design, even then the core is probably about equal height or a couple of jumps behind the Torch. The Princess podium is a couple of floors below ground and it dosen't seem to have as many supporting columns rising with the core.
I am not saying the Torch progress is blistering but considering the way everyone on the Princess thread is excited with the speed at which it is rising I don't think the Torch is way off track or being "held back".

I agree Princess Tower will overtake the Torch partly due to the pace of work but largley due to the simpler floor/core design.

Maybe the experts will back me up (Or shoot me down)

High Times,
Is this picture really from 1/09/07 ? It looks like one of HateTorchs views.


01/09/2006

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6349/ttsept06ad7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




01/09/2007

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6357/ttsept07uy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^

Give or take a couple of days they are about a year apart. Not my pictures, I am not sure who's they are so i didn't post any names, both pics have been on one of the many previous Torch threads at some time.

Basicaly I just wanted to show whats happened in the last year.

I think the general consensus of opinion is that once the podium is finished we should start to see more rapid progress of the tower.

Lets hope so.

Hi i am new to this and have never used a forum before so forgive me if i'm out of line.

I am considering buying an appartment in the Torch and was wondering who has actaully invested their own money in it from this forum.

I have read a lot of opinions of some of you and am wondering if the genuine investors are happy with their choice or have any regrets.

Select Properties are pushing me quite hard for a decision and i dont know if i am doing the right thing. I know i have to make the decision on my own but any advice would help.

Thanks in advance.

What price per sq ft are you being offered and for which apartment floor and view ?

Hi i am new to this and have never used a forum before so forgive me if i'm out of line.

I am considering buying an appartment in the Torch and was wondering who has actaully invested their own money in it from this forum.

I have read a lot of opinions of some of you and am wondering if the genuine investors are happy with their choice or have any regrets.

Select Properties are pushing me quite hard for a decision and i dont know if i am doing the right thing. I know i have to make the decision on my own but any advice would help.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Muay Thai Kid and welcome the the forum.

I've bought a one bed and I'm really pleased with my purchase. Don't regret it for a minute. I've found DS generally very good to deal with. By all accounts the Sales people can be a little, let's say, over enthusiastic sometimes but DS service is second to none. Can always get them on the phone or by e-mail and they reply straight away. Updates of construction are excellent we're kept well informed and the contracts team very helpful. If you're from the UK then it's nice to deal with UK staff rather than trying to contact local UAE companies. Very good website with members log-in area.
Also their developments are as good as you can get in the Marina, nice locations. Top quality contractors used as well such as DCE, NEB, Zublin and Bauer. And they have the 15 year non-status payment plan so you don't need to arrange a mortgage.

^^

Honestly, you should be banned from this forum. Your opinions are mega deceitful and simply geared to promote the interest of DS.

^^

Honestly, you should be banned from this forum. Your opinions are mega deceitful and simply geared to promote the interest of DS.

Actually you're completely wrong........these are my honest personal opinions based upon my experience of buying two properties with DS.........too bad you don't like them.

YOU should be banned from this forum for trying to taint the image of a very good developer for no reason other than (I suspect) pure jealousy.

Why don't you actually start to contribute something useful to this forum for once instead of attacking me every time I say something positive about DS.

I agree completley with Morrismarina, DS have provided great service so far and very good that they are a UK company. I am a happy customer. Of course there is the usual delay which is to be compensated for, but apart from that I am very happy with the Torch investment. Only the unknown view problem to cope with.

I am also very happy with my purchase at TT.

taint the image of a very good developer for no reason other than (I suspect) pure jealousy.

Only time would tell with regards to DS. Bottom line - Lets see if they can successfully manage to hand over any of their projects from Dubai to Bulgaria within the next two years. When they do, then we can talk about them being good developers or a bunch of cowboys.:cheers:

Only time would tell with regards to DS. Bottom line - Lets see if they can successfully manage to hand over any of their projects from Dubai to Bulgaria within the next two years. When they do, then we can talk about them being good developers or a bunch of cowboys.:cheers:

The question from Muay Thai Kid was what do we think of DS now, not in two years time, as he's looking to purchase now.

Hi i am new to this and have never used a forum before so forgive me if i'm out of line.

I am considering buying an appartment in the Torch and was wondering who has actaully invested their own money in it from this forum.

I have read a lot of opinions of some of you and am wondering if the genuine investors are happy with their choice or have any regrets.

Select Properties are pushing me quite hard for a decision and i dont know if i am doing the right thing. I know i have to make the decision on my own but any advice would help.

Thanks in advance.

Hi, and welcome to the board.

I've reserved three two-bed apartments in The Torch. Morrismarina's right, in general the customer service and service culture of Select Property as they now call themselves is in a different league to other Dubai developers and agents. However, that's not saying much...

Other people here who are less complimentary also have a point. Whatever you do, don't buy if taking delivery on the date they say you will is important to you. Officially, delivery has slipped from July 2008 to December of that year. Unofficially, it'll be at least a year later than that (IMHO). You might want to try to negotiate a more rigorous penalty clause for late completion than the standard one in DS's sale and purchase agreements.

Hi i am new to this and have never used a forum before so forgive me if i'm out of line.

I am considering buying an appartment in the Torch and was wondering who has actaully invested their own money in it from this forum.

I have read a lot of opinions of some of you and am wondering if the genuine investors are happy with their choice or have any regrets.

Select Properties are pushing me quite hard for a decision and i dont know if i am doing the right thing. I know i have to make the decision on my own but any advice would help.

Thanks in advance.


Your own words sum up DS. A pushy sales driven company which score highly at all the sales techniques. Read the descriptions given about The Torch on their web site and ask yourself how much of that is fact. However, name changes and seperate UK company (with office furniture on wheels, no doubt) are clues people warn about.

Construction progress is very poor, especialy The point. All of their projects are at the early stages so their main expense has still to come.

They may answer the phone just now but when the reality of 2011 Torch hits home will they still be so keen to listen to Mr Angry.

Not a company I would consider dealing with untill I see more proof of what they can deliver.

Buster007 do you actually own a DS property?

Alan

Your own words sum up DS. A pushy sales driven company which score highly at all the sales techniques. Read the descriptions given about The Torch on their web site and ask yourself how much of that is fact. However, name changes and seperate UK company (with office furniture on wheels, no doubt) are clues people warn about.

Construction progress is very poor, especialy The point. All of their projects are at the early stages so their main expense has still to come.

They may answer the phone just now but when the reality of 2011 Torch hits home will they still be so keen to listen to Mr Angry.

Not a company I would consider dealing with untill I see more proof of what they can deliver.

Ha ha ha.....I knew it wouldn't be long before you simply couldn't resist getting involved here . See a bit of DS bashing & you're like a moth to flame. :lol:

Buster007 do you actually own a DS property?

Alan

Of course he doesn't.

Since compensation will be paid I am not too worried that delivery will be 18months late. For investment the Torch offers the best possible purchase on the marina market right now. The best location at the head of the tallest block in the upper marina at the lowest price per sq foot. Once complete at then end of 09 / start of 2010, the value will be double. An easy way to make a couple of hundred thousand dollars in a couple of years.

Please continue any investment discussion here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764

Read the descriptions given about The Torch on their web site and ask yourself how much of that is fact.

I can not see anything wrong on the website?

• State of the art, temperature controlled swimming pool
• Sauna, steam room and spa
• Modern gymnasium
• Shopping and dining facilities
• Barbeque deck
• 24 Hour maintenance and supervision
• Secure underground parking
• 24 hour security
• Professional housekeeping service
• Children’s play area
• Concierge desk and spacious lobby

The items you selected Steve, are yet to be determined. I have highlighted statements which you have skipped over and that are without any doubt, nothing short of missinformation.



The Torch stands proudly at the mouth of Dubai Marina, the heart of the emirate’s most celebrated waterfront projects. This envied location possesses stunning views spanning the length of the marina itself but also out towards the Palm Jumeirah and across to the ambitious island project known as ‘The World’.

Naturally the marina is something of a landmark in itself, home to some of the world’s most luxurious private boats with The Torch opening out onto one of the premier mooring sites. The marina’s promenade is home to some of Dubai finest shops and restaurants and offers a very sophisticated social scene, with a wealth of top hotels including the Burj Al Arab within easy walking distance.

All the apartments have been designed with space, light and style in mind. Each spacious apartment offers large windows throughout and exceptional balcony space, with views to compliment both the location and height of this sensational development. Each specially designed room is aimed towards the pinnacle of modern living, with fully-finished luxurious, elegant bathrooms and kitchens as well as internet and telecommunications systems.

buster007, you have been brigged for one week for unnecessary flaming.

Rest are not immune to ban, irrespective of how long they have been on this forum or how much they have contributed. Enough number of warnings have been given to keep this thread clean.

If you have personal issues to settle, do it outside the forum. This thread will not be jeopardised.

Thanks for all of your replies,

Basicaly i am considering a 3 bed unit looking towards the marina.

The asking price is 2.2 million AED.

Is this a reasonable price to pay ?

Do you all think that September 2009 is a realistic completion date ?

Can anyone tell me what the 3 bedroom units were selling for when the development was launched ?

I am looking to use it as a holiday home for maybe 6 weeks a year then rent it out for weekly lets if i can.

Are short term lets allowed here as i have heard that some developments restrict this ?

My friend who is in construction saw some pics on here and says that the standard of workmanship so far looks very good, would you agree ?

Thanks again.

P.S. What does brigged mean in here ?

Hi i am new to this and have never used a forum before so forgive me if i'm out of line.

I am considering buying an appartment in the Torch and was wondering who has actaully invested their own money in it from this forum.

I have read a lot of opinions of some of you and am wondering if the genuine investors are happy with their choice or have any regrets.

Select Properties are pushing me quite hard for a decision and i dont know if i am doing the right thing. I know i have to make the decision on my own but any advice would help.

Thanks in advance.

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly you must realise that a few people on this forum have their own interests to serve, so beware !

I have purchased 2 units in the Torch and i must say that so far DS have acted proffessionaly from the 1st enquiry i made to the present day.

If you are going to buy a 'Marina View' just be aware that there will be something built infront of the Torch and nobody has a clue what it will be. Go here for more info -

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=438699&page=15

You will see that nothing is confirmed and there is a lot of speculation, on the DS website in the members area they make comments like "we are confident that marina views will not be comprimised".

This in my opinion is the only thing that lets DS down. The sales team are way to exitable and it may come back to haunt them !! That said i spoke to loads of other developers and sales people in Dubai before i decided to buy in the Torch and they are all the same.

Price wise i think you could negotiate a slightly better price than that.

I think Morris has the original launch prices.

I dont expect to get my keys until mid 2010 but i am naturaly pessemistic anyway.

Assume the worst and you might be pleasantly surprised.

If you go ahead with DS, PM me before you sign your contract and i will let you know what clauses DS are prepared to change as my lawyer wanted to make quite a few changes to mine, some they changed some they didnt.

In summary i think that the Torch is one of the best projects in the Marina,

Reasons;

Location - Higher Marina without doubt the best end of the city within a city.
Location - Part of the Tallest block on the planet but not in the middle of it.
Location - If the plots in front of TT are low to mid rise 30-50 floors, your views of the marina will be stunning day and night.

Near the marina metro station
Near the tram link
Near the prominade
Near the Grosvenor Hotel, Look at how much a suite will cost you for a week in there.

For me the big issue is what ends up in front. This could make or break the Torch IMO.

Thats what the gamble of off plan is all about.

Good luck

HT

P.S. What does brigged mean in here ?



brigged means you are temporarily banned...this happens when krazy is trigger happy :lol:
got shot last week!

Thanks for all of your replies,

Basicaly i am considering a 3 bed unit looking towards the marina.

The asking price is 2.2 million AED.

Is this a reasonable price to pay ?

Do you all think that September 2009 is a realistic completion date ?

Can anyone tell me what the 3 bedroom units were selling for when the development was launched ?

I am looking to use it as a holiday home for maybe 6 weeks a year then rent it out for weekly lets if i can.

Are short term lets allowed here as i have heard that some developments restrict this ?

My friend who is in construction saw some pics on here and says that the standard of workmanship so far looks very good, would you agree ?

Thanks again.

P.S. What does brigged mean in here ?


The price depends on the floor number, total sq feet and aspect for the apartment.

Which floor and what is the total sq ft of the apartment ?

Here is the original lauch price list from May 2005

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2779/3bedshe9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Short term lets are allowed in the Torch.

By the way these 3 bed above were 1,712 sq ft (including balcony) so that means price per sq ft was between AED 1100 and 1232 for floors 55 to 71.

Hi Muay Thai Kid and welcome the the forum.

I've bought a one bed and I'm really pleased with my purchase. Don't regret it for a minute. I've found DS generally very good to deal with. By all accounts the Sales people can be a little, let's say, over enthusiastic sometimes but DS service is second to none. Can always get them on the phone or by e-mail and they reply straight away. Updates of construction are excellent we're kept well informed and the contracts team very helpful. If you're from the UK then it's nice to deal with UK staff rather than trying to contact local UAE companies. Very good website with members log-in area.
Also their developments are as good as you can get in the Marina, nice locations. Top quality contractors used as well such as DCE, NEB, Zublin and Bauer. And they have the 15 year non-status payment plan so you don't need to arrange a mortgage.

There is no doubt that they are very helpful and have some of the nicest people specially the ladies never the less, the progress is extremely poor and their lack of experience in managing contractors is showing big time. I am disappointed mainly because I expected better from a British company and no investor in the world can accommodate for a 2.5 years of contingency, it is just mad.

Yes on hindsight it would have been better to buy a resale now rather than something at launch since it has been suggested that there is only a 6% or so premium from launch and only 2.5 years to wait until completion now rather than 4.5 to 5 years for those who purchased at launch.

Thanks to you all for the info and advice so far.

Steve,

Am i right in thinking that investing now as opposed to the original launch is better for me as i am from the UK and exchange rates are more favourable?

2.1 million AED in May 05 was £328k
2.1 million AED now is worth around £287k based on 7.3 exchange rate

Why do i hear from various sources that prices in Dubai are increasing 20% - 30% a year if i can buy a 3 bed in the Torch now for the same price as 2 and a half years ago. Does this mean that the Torch is not an attractive investment? What are the reasons for this?

It seems that there are not many 3 beds in the Tower and they have not sold out. Does this mean that 3 beds are not good value for money as opposed to 1 or 2 beds?

From a construction point of view is it really possible to build 86 floors and finish and handover in 2 years? I cant see how this is possible?

6%? Maybe for a 3-bed, i haven't bothered to work it out.

But for a 1 bed, the premium is around 21% at a minimum.

Thanks to you all for the info and advice so far.

Steve,

Am i right in thinking that investing now as opposed to the original launch is better for me as i am from the UK and exchange rates are more favourable?

2.1 million AED in May 05 was £328k
2.1 million AED now is worth around £287k based on 7.3 exchange rate

Why do i hear from various sources that prices in Dubai are increasing 20% - 30% a year if i can buy a 3 bed in the Torch now for the same price as 2 and a half years ago. Does this mean that the Torch is not an attractive investment? What are the reasons for this?

It seems that there are not many 3 beds in the Tower and they have not sold out. Does this mean that 3 beds are not good value for money as opposed to 1 or 2 beds?

From a construction point of view is it really possible to build 86 floors and finish and handover in 2 years? I cant see how this is possible?

Yes it requires less money down to invest now rather than at launch as you say. I only wish I did the same and had invested all my money spent on the Torch over the last 2.5 years somewhere else and flipped it giving me a 100% return and in effect buying me the Torch for free!

Investing is all about timing and now is the right time to buy in the Torch not 2.5 years ago. Construction will zoom up as soon as the podium is complete and I would say 2.5 years to wait is now plausable.

To estimate your return - look at the price per sq foot of marina heights next door which will have the same views and use that figure on your Torch apartment. Then factor in price increases over the next 2.5 years and you should come to about 100% increase in the total value of the apartment.

Why do i hear from various sources that prices in Dubai are increasing 20% - 30% a year if i can buy a 3 bed in the Torch now for the same price as 2 and a half years ago. Does this mean that the Torch is not an attractive investment? What are the reasons for this?

This applies to completed properties only.

To estimate your return - look at the price per sq foot of marina heights next door which will have the same views and use that figure on your Torch apartment. Then factor in price increases over the next 2.5 years and you should come to about 100% increase in the total value of the apartment.

Steve,

Are you saying that upon completion of the Torch around 2009/2010, you estimate that the AED value will be double that of their launch price ?

yes, considering I bought high level 'marina facing' at AED 980 per sq foot and sea facing apartments in Marina Heights are for sale today at AED 1880 per sq ft.

100% total increase is only 15% per year compounded over the 5 year build period.

3 Bed apartments are a slow mover in the marina. I had two 3 bed units in the marina and they took a while to sell them even after completion. The profit was less than 10% after 3 years.

Most people who need a 3 bed are family's and they mostly buy villas. Take a look at the springs/meadows premiums.

Thanks to you all for the info and advice so far.

Steve,

Am i right in thinking that investing now as opposed to the original launch is better for me as i am from the UK and exchange rates are more favourable?

2.1 million AED in May 05 was £328k
2.1 million AED now is worth around £287k based on 7.3 exchange rate

Why do i hear from various sources that prices in Dubai are increasing 20% - 30% a year if i can buy a 3 bed in the Torch now for the same price as 2 and a half years ago. Does this mean that the Torch is not an attractive investment? What are the reasons for this?

It seems that there are not many 3 beds in the Tower and they have not sold out. Does this mean that 3 beds are not good value for money as opposed to 1 or 2 beds?

From a construction point of view is it really possible to build 86 floors and finish and handover in 2 years? I cant see how this is possible?

What is the plan with your purchase. Are you looking to buy for personal use and keep the property or, sell on quickly when built ?? Or are you interested in just rental income ?? Again this could be long term or short term rental ?? The best unit to buy will depend on what you want to do with it.

There are number of torch properties on dubailuxuryhomes web site.

What is the plan with your purchase. Are you looking to buy for personal use and keep the property or, sell on quickly when built ?? Or are you interested in just rental income ?? Again this could be long term or short term rental ?? The best unit to buy will depend on what you want to do with it.

Hi Morris,

The plan is to be able to use it for myself about 6 weeks of the year for family holidays and let it out for short term weekly lets for as much of the year as possible.

As the 3 bedrooms are much more limited in the Torch, i think there are only 32 where as there are 464 2 beds i thought that it would be easier to rent out as they will be more in demand. I also think that for short term holiday lets for families a 3 bed would be the better bet. I dont want to sell it on quickly as i dont think the full value will be realised until Dubai is completed (2015)ish.

Do you agree or should i think again?

Also i see that you can buy a 3 bed in Marina Heights for AED 2.5m which is complete and ready to move in so am i being ripped off paying AED2.1m for a building that probably wont be finished for 2.5 years?

Is construction of towers in Dubai built to the same standards/quality as UK or US ?

HELP !!

As suggested, 3 beds do not sell very well as not many people can afford them. Perhaps when things settle down and the marina is fully completed 3 beds will be more attrractive for a family to live in.

I think the smaller the property the higher price per sq foot can be achieved, as it can be made to sound more affordable.

There is also a 2 bed for sale in MH for AED 2.1m. I don't think you are being "ripped off" for a 3 bed at 2.1m since the original price list for 3 beds was between 1.8 and 2.1m. Also you will be on a much higher floor than MH offers and price goes up depending on floor in Dubai.

No need to worry about the construction quality.

Hi Thai Muay, 2.1 M for a 3 bed sounds reasonable. You should not worry if its long term investment and prepared to wait for another 2 years or so. The waiting time could be frustrating at times.
Again I agree with Steve that consturction qulaity should not be a question mark for Dubai.

07/Sept/2007

The Torch

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6351/imresolt279co2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5331/imresolt051eu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1640/imresolt052jv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7450/imresolt066pd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^

Excellent pics Imre thank you.

From the first picture i reckon 1 or 2 more core jumps and they will be at finished podium height. That would be a good milestone to hit.

Anyone fancy a sweepstake on what residential floor the core will be at come new years eve 2007 ?

^^ I guess 34

^^

I reckon 10.

I think a few months ago I was going for 12 but that was floor table not core. Anyway stick with 12.

Tag one, you get another guess when you're sober. :lol:

Ok so here we go let me have your guess. The winner gets £10 beer money from me for a New Years night drink. Here are the rules.


One entry per person
Last date to enter 30th September
Entries can be amended up until 30th September
Any accounts created after 7th September can not enter for obvious reasons
True Blue (cos he knows his stuff), High Times (Cos it was his idea) and Myself (cos it's my tenner)will judge which "Residential" floor has been completed for the "Core" not including any floor still waiting to set within the form work by 6pm UAE time on New years eve. We will decide from a picture provided by Imre, HateTorch or any other respected forumer
Payment will only be made by Paypal. If you don't have a Paypal account it goes to Charity.
Judges decision is final, no bickering or grovelling :-) In the event of a draw the winner will the one who guessed without going over. e.g A picks 12 B pick 14, actual floor count is 13 so A wins
No duplicate entries so get your guess in quick. The final list will be the one posted by me on the 30th September



Current List

10 High Times
12 True Blue (Would have been my guess but he got there first and 13 is unlucky!)
14 Anjam
34 Tag_One (He can amend when sober!)

I'll go for 9th.

8th, i need that 10er

Current List

8 Shaffar
9 Morrismarina
10 High Times
12 True Blue (Would have been my guess but he got there first and 13 is unlucky!)
14 Anjam
34 Tag_One (He can amend when sober!)



Here are the rules.


One entry per person
Last date to enter 30th September
Entries can be amended up until 30th September
Any accounts created after 7th September can not enter for obvious reasons
True Blue (cos he knows his stuff), High Times (Cos it was his idea) and Myself (cos it's my tenner)will judge which "Residential" floor has been completed for the "Core" not including any floor still waiting to set within the form work by 6pm UAE time on New years eve. We will decide from a picture provided by Imre, HateTorch or any other respected forumer
Payment will only be made by Paypal. If you don't have a Paypal account it goes to Charity.
Judges decision is final, no bickering or grovelling :-) In the event of a draw the winner will the one who guessed without going over. e.g A picks 12 B pick 14, actual floor count is 13 so A wins
No duplicate entries so get your guess in quick. The final list will be the one posted by me on the 30th September

I'm in for 13:)

No 11 for me - between True Blue and HighTimes seems like a safe bet :)

alright alright I was a bit to positive about the development. let's see there're 114 left and the core is currently at level 4. I change my bet from 34 to 20. that shouls be possible, at least I hope so :lol:

7 for sure

15 for me

Over 16 weeks to go, Scoot or Anjam will get this one.

Will have to go for the next available No. 16

I'll go for 17

I'll go for floor 56. I'm not that desperate for £10.

man! loads of ppl are really into 10 pounds...i stay u raise the stakes anjam.
i'll throw in a 100 pounds

Current predictions to win a tenner.

7 Jeetha
8 Shaffar
9 Morrismarina
10 High Times
11 Joannides
12 True Blue (Would have been my guess but he got there first and 13 is unlucky!)
13 Scoot68
14 Anjam
15 Chefdude
16 mackie1964
17 Sheltie
18 Rexdmx
19 agod
20 Tag_One
56 Naz UK (Cos he's rich!)

Here are the rules.


One entry per person
Last date to enter 30th September
Entries can be amended up until 30th September
Any accounts created after 7th September can not enter for obvious reasons
True Blue (cos he knows his stuff), High Times (Cos it was his idea) and Myself (cos it's my tenner)will judge which "Residential" floor has been completed for the "Core" not including any floor still waiting to set within the form work by 6pm UAE time on New years eve. We will decide from a picture provided by Imre, HateTorch or any other respected forumer
Payment will only be made by Paypal. If you don't have a Paypal account it goes to Charity.
Judges decision is final, no bickering or grovelling :-) In the event of a draw the winner will the one who guessed without going over. e.g A picks 12 B pick 14, actual floor count is 13 so A wins
No duplicate entries so get your guess in quick. The final list will be the one posted by me on the 30th September
[/QUOTE]

Over 16 weeks to go, Scoot or Anjam will get this one.

Will have to go for the next available No. 16

I forgot to say to say that if I win you all pay me a tenner :cheers: :banana2:

With Ramadan starting on Thursday and lasting for 30 days, i wonder how this will effect the progress of the Torch ?

I would happily lose £10 to see the core progress nicely. :lol:

For those longer serving forumers how did Ramadan effect construction progress in Dubai in previous years?

this is bullshit

this is not a betting forum this is torch construction!

this is bullshit

this is not a betting forum this is torch construction!

^^ There is no betting? Go and lookup the definition of betting before posting comments like that.

And yes this is a Torch Construction forum maybe should click on your username and see the type of messages you have been posting.

With Ramadan starting on Thursday and lasting for 30 days, i wonder how this will effect the progress of the Torch ?

I would happily lose £10 to see the core progress nicely. :lol:

For those longer serving forumers how did Ramadan effect construction progress in Dubai in previous years?

I am not sure on the official timings but things do tend to go into slow motion which is understandable if you conmsider a lot of the workers will be fasting in the extreme heat. Iftar will be after the normal close of play but I would have thought the workers will be given longer rest breaks during the day.

Floor 19 please.

ALan

I Tag one, you get another guess when you're sober. :lol:

Considering the location, "not stoned" would have been more appropriate. :D

Floor 19 please.

ALan

^^ add to list above :cheers:

Hopefully Imre's pictures tomorrow will get you all to revise upwards!

14/September/2007

The Torch

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8624/imresolt111xx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5566/imresolt112wu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7196/imresolt113ty9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

looks the same as last week! can anyone see any progress?

Of course there's progress! Do you think they've been sitting around playing chess for the last week? Jesus!

looks the same as last week! can anyone see any progress?

^^ There is rebar poking out of the top, looks like it will soon be ready to jump again.

I reckon with the next jump the core should be around finished podium height?

any news on torch construction? This skyscrapercity string is a bir quiet at the moment

Last update was just 3 days ago

I reckon with the next jump the core should be around finished podium height?

Are they using a "jump form" or "slip form" for the core ??

^^ Jump form Morris.
Slip form continuously moves up as they pour concrete. Jump form jumps up 1 or 2 floors once the concrete has been poured and has set.
Where have you been the last 2 years???? This topic has been discussed to death!

http://i13.tinypic.com/4qqxw0l.jpg

http://i15.tinypic.com/4pov7v4.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/6fjqwpl.jpg

^^

Nice shots Gorilla. Thank you.

Great to see some close ups of the site/working areas.

Looks well organised and tidy to me.

^^ Yes, no hard-hat primitive humans to spoil the view.

Yeah!! Where is everyone?

Away sabotaging Infinity again :lol:

^^ Jump form Morris.
Slip form continuously moves up as they pour concrete. Jump form jumps up 1 or 2 floors once the concrete has been poured and has set.
Where have you been the last 2 years???? This topic has been discussed to death!

Yes I know it's been discussed before. Mackie posted a very good link with some info a while back but can't find it now. If you can post it again Mackie I'd be most grateful.

I'm probably wrong then but, I'm sure earlier posts said that a slip form system was going to be used here. I know what you're saying Anjam about jump form moving up a few floors at a time and that slip form is continuous.......presumably then slip form cannot never be used for any sort of tower as it would be impossible to pour the core in one go ?? In which case is slip form ever used ??

Slip forms can be continous and non continous it's down to the method of movement and whether the form is struck or not.

Slip forms can be continous and non continous it's down to the method of movement and whether the form is struck or not.

Thanks True Blue.......so they could be using slip form on the Torch then ?? What do you reckon they're using ??

Gorilla> What day/ime were those pictures taken?

Thanks True Blue.......so they could be using slip form on the Torch then ?? What do you reckon they're using ??

Slip form!

For a good example of jump form check Dorrabay. The forms can clearly be seen to be struck and lying back off the core after the pour has set.

Slip form!

For a good example of jump form check Dorrabay. The forms can clearly be seen to be struck and lying back off the core after the pour has set.

True Blue> is there such thing as a "Double Jump Slip Form"?

Slip form!

For a good example of jump form check Dorrabay. The forms can clearly be seen to be struck and lying back off the core after the pour has set.

Many thanks. :)

True Blue> is there such thing as a "Double Jump Slip Form"?

Sounds like a new dance move :dance2:

I have never heard of it but that means nothing. Slip forms generally work on 2 levels. Steelfixers overhead and concrete forms below. What you might be referring to is a slip form that casts 2 floors in 1 lift :dunno:

The slip form on the torch will be stationery while the steel is being fixed and moving while the concrete is added. Keeping the concrete near the top of the form lets them monitor compaction, steel cover, inserts or pullouts to make sure everything stays in place during the pour sequence. After the pour is finished the form will stop until the next level of steel is inserted and the engineers check the plumbing of their last pour, work out any correction to come back on line and level for the next move etc.

Some slip forms do move continuosly to avoid unsightly joints, mostly on bridge piers etc. On the Torch this is not important as these joints will be hidden by top quality marbles from the most expensive Tuscan quarries of Italy. Shit, I should apply for a job with DS.

Gorilla> What day/ime were those pictures taken?

They are from Select Property site, I believe they are recent.

Sounds like a new dance move :dance2:

I have never heard of it but that means nothing. Slip forms generally work on 2 levels. Steelfixers overhead and concrete forms below. What you might be referring to is a slip form that casts 2 floors in 1 lift :dunno:



Yup! thats what they are using.
Sorry Morris it is actually a slip form not Jump as I previously mentioned. The term Double Jump Slip form was from an email I had from one of the site engineers and got me confused.

Lucky we have True Blue to clear things up :cheers:

21/Sept/2007

The Torch

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9766/imresolt063vn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7271/imresolt064ud7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9686/imresolt066dz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7862/imresolt067nx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6964/imresolt069ws8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^ is it me or is the torch just added another floor in about 3-4 days. ?

^^ is it me or is the torch just added another floor in about 3-4 days. ?

Both - it is you and the core has increased.

Thanks Imre - appreciated!

possible view from the roof of TT


http://i12.tinypic.com/6fkkjlz.jpg

I assume this is a view looking towards the arse end. :lol:

I assume this is a view looking towards the arse end. :lol:

Rhyming slang?

Arse cheek => CHIC, (adjective), cleverly stylish. :D

Rhyming slang?

Arse cheek => CHIC, (adjective), cleverly stylish. :D

:nuts:



:laugh:

Rhyming slang?

Arse cheek => CHIC, (adjective), cleverly stylish. :D

^^ TB Your talents have no bounds :nuts:

The Torch 2011

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2905/torchstandingtallif7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Torch 2009

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2905/torchstandingtallif7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Oh yes, sorry Naz,

How pessamistic of me.

I almost forgot the DS qick fast accelarated building schedule.

The Torch 2009

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2905/torchstandingtallif7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^ Hopefully by then those mounds of sand will have been at least leveled out!

^^ i think he above picture of the torch is too short considering marina heights is only approx 40 floors. The torch looks like its only got 50 floors compared to the height of marina heights. its alot taller.

The placement and the size (not heght, the size) are all wrong.

^^ I noticed that but did not want to say anything incase I exposed the secret to the 2009 plan. They are going to build it as a half scale model :lol:

^^ I would say 3/4 scale.

I guess i wont be winning illustrator of the year award then. :cry:

smshah Marina Heights is 54 floors, Height wise I'm within a floor or two.

^^ Marina Heights is 208 meters tall.

Apart increasing the size by some 25 - 30%, you should move it to the right covering at least half of Marina Pinnacle in the background, and also move it slightly up.

^^ Marina Heights is 208 meters tall.

Apart increasing the size by some 25 - 30%, you should move it to the right covering at least half of Marina Pinnacle in the background, and also move it slightly up.

I dissagree Altin, If you look at the original photo below, you can clearly see the Torch red core cover, (which i assume was wrapped around the core when the picture was taken).

All i did was impose the Torch pic directly on top of the core.

If i had placed it where you suggest (covering half of MP) this would be way out.

I think the angle of the shot may be blurring your judgement slightly.

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/1069/originalgy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^ Ok, but the other 2 points are still valid.

For you Altin. :)

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3480/torchstandingtall3fu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

good job... the tallest block is really gonna be a concrete jungle of monotonous color scheme and design. The only saviors are gonna be Infinity and OH.

^^ Pentominium and DH also.

Will the cladding be lovely shiny modern aluminium or boring concrete?

It's going to be lovely shiny modern aluminium !! :cheers:

Will the cladding be lovely shiny modern aluminium or boring concrete?

I guess the cladding will look the same as those of the other towers in the marina. I think shiny modern aluminium will be to expensive.

^^ I think it mentioned aluminium cladding for the Torch in an article in a construction magazine ?

It's going to be lovely shiny modern aluminium !! :cheers:

if you only knew the amount of electricity it takes to extract 1kg of AL :lol:

if you only knew the amount of electricity it takes to extract 1kg of AL :lol:


What do suggest then...........they cover it in re-cycled paper ? :lol:

if you only knew the amount of electricity it takes to extract 1kg of AL :lol:

... of water too. :runaway:

tin foil ? :dunno:

Rubber! Oh....er...misses.

Then it could live up to it's name.

:lol: how about using pvc instead, waterproof and shiny :D

Tin coke cans........The Torch Coke Tower and you pay no service fee as coke getting free advertising as the towers covered in it's Cans so Coke pay the fees.

^^ :lol: not a bad idea :D

A quote from DCE about the Torch

Cladding on the building will be a mixture of aluminium and
glass and will be provided by DCE. “The lead time now for glass is about 12 weeks,” says Menon. “We have a licence to use an American profile and we buy the glass locally. “But aluminium is no problem since we have our own extrusion factory in Dubai Investments Park,” he adds.

^^ that's very good news to hear. Finnaly something different than the standard cladding :cheers:

^^^ I agree who else will dare to put tin coke cans on there tower it's cutting edge stuff. :)

Taken from level 5 of Heights.
http://i24.tinypic.com/k2o68k.jpg

Taken from Level 5 of Heights
http://i24.tinypic.com/2ujrtlh.jpg

Welcome back HateTorch :hug: we were all wondering where you'd been. Great update.

good update...i dont see much workers...they must be taking their break

BULLSHIT DS YEAH READY FOR 2009 SEPTEMBER , WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. where are all the FUCKING workers we are paying for. And what are u investors doing about it ? = 0 FUCKALL

:ohno:

go on investors say your usually crap "good progress here" as previous said. NO WAY is this going to be finished for sep 2009 and we have paid 90%

Well your right it may not hit the completion deadline, but thats one of the cons of buy off plan. Hence why intial off plan investors in most towers would see a premium.

As we should all know generally the completions dates have not been hit by any towers except maybe so EMAAR Developments.

Well it's good progress compared to a hole in the ground :)

Princess Tower is catching up fast in the background. When Torch raft slab was poured PT was just a hole in the ground.

where are all the F***ING workers we are paying for.

Are you blind, there are workers on the site!

go on investors say your usually crap "good progress here" as previous said. NO WAY is this going to be finished for sep 2009 and we have paid 90%

Why have you been believing till now that Sep 2009 would be the completion? It should have been clear to you since more then a year ago that it wouuld not be the case.

Why have you been believing till now that Sep 2009 would be the completion? It should have been clear to you since more then a year ago that it wouuld not be the case.

I know what you’re saying, buts it’s understandable 'to some extent' that some people would believe this, since the developer themselves are STILL saying they’re actually ahead of the Sept 09 deadline. Many people rely on what the developer says in the absence of understanding the technical elements of this project.

Looking back on some of the early Torch thread, if people had suggested 2010/2011, they would be regarded as cynics, but in hindsight, they'll most probably be correct.

People were warning about this development/developer before there was even a hole in the ground ... their sales literature had blatant lies in it.

Quite amazing how many people are in denial and accepting massive delays (rather than admit its a bad investment when compared to others around it).

I suspect a lot of them only bought due to the 'easy' long-term payment plan.

Are you blind, there are workers on the site!

people see what they want to see :lol:
But he's right that construction work is a bit slow. Great to see HateTorch pictures again btw :cheers:

Many thanks Hatetorch, welcome back and you can keep your seaview as a reward for a few more months :)

Great Progress:banana:

Not expecting much during Ramadan !

@ Morris; Can I now join the club? 2010 / 2011 who care, I don't any more, I took some of Alan's tablets :wtf:

Many thanks Hatetorch, welcome back and you can keep your seaview as a reward for a few more months :)

Great Progress:banana:

Not expecting much during Ramadan !

@ Morris; Can I now join the club? 2010 / 2011 who care, I don't any more, I took some of Alan's tablets :wtf:

Yes the tablets are great aren't they Mackie ? I was struggling to keep motivated recently about TT to be honest, especially after being fired by DS........ but now I pop one of the pills each morning and I'm fine. Progress is fantastic here and much better than I could possibly hope for. In fact I'm so happy I'm going to open my bottle of Glenfiddich Solara Reserve tonight to celebrate. :nuts:

Enjoy, 5* Metaxa here :lol:

what we need to see is pictures of the signboard of the torch to see the number of days left. Lets see if DCE have increased the number of days outstanding. if anyone can supply a current pic it would be great!

^^ they won't increase the amount of days left, they will simply start with forgetting to update the board and make it irrelevant to watch :lol:

2011 is when this'll be finished, you can be sure of that :)

go on investors say your usually crap "good progress here" as previous said. NO WAY is this going to be finished for sep 2009 and we have paid 90%

Good progress here! Why are you so worried, you will get compensation payments on your 90% and your investment will be double what you paid for it in late 2010.

However, you are a bit crazy for paying 90%, instead you could have paid 30% down and used the other money on a 2nd investment.

Princess Tower is catching up fast in the background. When Torch raft slab was poured PT was just a hole in the ground.

Is that a fair comparison? The Princess Tower core appears to be no more than an elevator shaft.

Good progress here! Why are you so worried, you will get compensation payments on your 90% and your investment will be double what you paid for it in late 2010.

However, you are a bit crazy for paying 90%, instead you could have paid 30% down and used the other money on a 2nd investment.

I'll eat my hat if they pay compensation. It'd be a lot cheaper for them to construct on Friday's as well to make up some time, but they're not. They'll claim delays in permits, etc. are force majeure.

They SAY they'll pay compensation ... do you have that in writing? I.e. a signed letter?

Steve you are spot on here,

Why would anyone pay more than the required 30% ? ? ?

Even if you have got the funds to do it is a stupid move. Worst case scenario for any property investor is the thing stops half way up and doesnt get built as in the case of the Lighthouse.

The cost of the DS payment plan works out at around 6%. So the astute thing to do is use this option and put your cash in a high interest account paying 4-5%. This offsets the cost of the finance which reduces the real cost to around 1-2%.

The way to look at it is that your a paying a 1-2% insurance premium to protect 60% of your investment premium.

Of course the more adventurous investor can utilise the funds to purchase more investments.

As i have said many times whatever a developer says is the completion date you MUST factor in delays. I dont expect to get my keys until 2nd/3rd quarter in 2010.

Steve you are spot on here,

Why would anyone pay more than the required 30% ? ? ?

Even if you have got the funds to do it is a stupid move. Worst case scenario for any property investor is the thing stops half way up and doesnt get built as in the case of the Lighthouse.

The cost of the DS payment plan works out at around 6%. So the astute thing to do is use this option and put your cash in a high interest account paying 4-5%. This offsets the cost of the finance which reduces the real cost to around 1-2%.

The way to look at it is that your a paying a 1-2% insurance premium to protect 60% of your investment premium.

Of course the more adventurous investor can utilise the funds to purchase more investments.

As i have said many times whatever a developer says is the completion date you MUST factor in delays. I dont expect to get my keys until 2nd/3rd quarter in 2010.

i agree:wave:

i'm someone who's paid 90% so far and to be honest, i wasnt motivated by the investent opportunity - more the opportunity to live and work in Dubai (along with the tax free perks...)

i want this building to be complete, so i can move there, not so i can get tenants in as soon as... every time its dealyed, i dont think about my inverstment, i think about it as as another 6 months or a year that i need to wait before i get my residency visa!

i do agree that if you have stumpted up 90% upfront and by doing so have tied up more equity than you can spare and are RELYING on the investment return in the short term, you probably shouldnt have chosen this payment option, or in fact this building. whilst its not ideal, i think its something we all need to live with, or else move onto the happy pills:)

Well i think Cayan the Infinty Developers are on Happy Pills as there completion date after the Little Incedent is Wait for it June 2009 and thats 3 Months before DS who actually have the tower out of the ground.

So i think we should all have Happy Pills and Chill, Off Plan in Dubai = Not completed on Completion Date at least a 6month or 12 Month Diffrence.

Joannides with 90% to play with, there’re so many finished buildings, I can think off.

I suppose you got talk into it, by the sales crap!

Joannides with 90% to play with, there’re so many finished buildings, I can think off.

I suppose you got talk into it, by the sales crap!

Jeetha, i thought so, but with the same budget (1.1 mil AED), or even f i increased it to say, 1.5m AED, there isnt really anything comprable to buy, meaning i just need to learn to live with it - or am i wrong? are there completed 2 BR's available for this type of price range in or around the marina?

and yes, i fell for the sales crap...

As i have said many times whatever a developer says is the completion date you MUST factor in delays. I dont expect to get my keys until 2nd/3rd quarter in 2010.

Factor in a 3 years delay on this type and size of investment :ohno: I must be from a different planet :lol:

They SAY they'll pay compensation ... do you have that in writing? I.e. a signed letter?

Yes I have and it states clearly that the delay is not due to FM, If they claimed FM, many of us could have walked away with our money in accordance with the contract. :nuts:

Good luck on the compensation, but I still don't think you'll ever see it.

They'll claim FM when the building is finished.

Yep, our troubles are not over by any means, a long rough ride and many issues to resolve along the way :bash:

When comparing an investment here on the south coast which has doubled in 13 months compared with hoping to break even after waiting for 4 years for the Torch, suddenly Dubai does not look or feel like the right move somehow despite of the weather and tax advantages !

We better stop talking investment before the big guys get angry :)

Good luck on the compensation, but I still don't think you'll ever see it.

They'll claim FM when the building is finished.

Funny that ALL your posts on this thread are negative, how about posting something positive, just once............go on I dare you !!

Talking of FM you have no evidence or reason whatsoever to claim that DS will not honour the compensation as per the contract. (Not that you would have ever seen the contract !!). One forumer here has it in writing from DS that they will not be claiming FM upon any event so far, and hence the compensation WILL be payable. So Tractor, stop trying to intentionally demoralise DS investors. :bash:

Morris, ALL your posts are biased towards DS (to the point that people joke about you working for them) and so I am merely counter-balancing those and others with my own valid opinion.

Have you looked at the company structure of DS? It has been deliberately made so that one or more subsidiary could go bust or be intentionally wound up without effecting the rest of the company. Doesn't that worry you? Why don't other developers do this?

Considering the facts that DS have obviously lied in the past and are STILL lying about completion dates says to any normal person that they cannot be trusted. Who signed the letter regarding FM? Was it a director of the company that owns TT? Who have you been making payments to or who is your contract with? Is it the same company that owns TT? Why doesn't EVERY investor have this letter?

DONT criticise me simply because I have some common sense ... TT are NOT trying to hit the deadline which is completely illogical if it means they'll have to pay compensation (to everyone) instead.

They'll do anything and everything they can to get out of paying compensation and will say/do anything and everything they can to keep investors in place until the build is finished. That's just thinking like a business man & in my opinion realistic given the fact they clearly don't mind lying/miss-selling.

Morris, ALL your posts are biased towards DS (to the point that people joke about you working for them) and so I am merely counter-balancing those and others with my own valid opinion.

Have you looked at the company structure of DS? It has been deliberately made so that one or more subsidiary could go bust or be intentionally wound up without effecting the rest of the company. Doesn't that worry you? Why don't other developers do this?

Considering the facts that DS have obviously lied in the past and are STILL lying about completion dates says to any normal person that they cannot be trusted. Who signed the letter regarding FM? Was it a director of the company that owns TT? Who have you been making payments to or who is your contract with? Is it the same company that owns TT? Why doesn't EVERY investor have this letter?

DONT criticise me simply because I have some common sense ... TT are NOT trying to hit the deadline which is completely illogical if it means they'll have to pay compensation (to everyone) instead.

They'll do anything and everything they can to get out of paying compensation and will say/do anything and everything they can to keep investors in place until the build is finished. That's just thinking like a business man & in my opinion realistic given the fact they clearly don't mind lying/miss-selling.

Thanks for "counter balancing" opinions that's really so kind and generous of you for taking the time and trouble to do this. Much appreciated. :puke:

u both should get married and have naz officiate it!! :lol:

I got an email PM'ed to me at the end of May from one of the users which said:

The delay which has occurred between the start of the build and now do not fall within the defination of a force majeure.

With regards to your query about the payment penalties as long as you have complied with your side of the agreement, I can confirm that you will be entitled to penalty payments from 31st Dec 2008. Under clause 15.1 of your contract these payments are payable until the date when your property is certified completely.

The letter was signed Lois Brough, account manager.

I also have a letter which must have been sent to all the owners about the same time (end of May) which states "much of the cause of this delay has been beyond our control"

I didn't think to check this before but it does seem to be something worth checking on. Unfortunately I am in the UK or I would have gone to see them in Dubai.

Lois Brough has now left the company, does the letter still stand legally ?

By the way penalty payments are due to be paid from the 31st December 2008 not after completion.

He's was only an account manager so the way i see it the letter probaly carried little weight as the management could probably discard / overwrite it.

But we are just speculating on what might or might not happen about compensation always diffcult to know stance until the point you iniate it, but generally most contracts a worded in the developers favour, so there could be another caluse somewhere they could use who knows excpet the legal experts.

Lois Brough has now left the company, does the letter still stand legally ?

By the way penalty payments are due to be paid from the 31st December 2008 not after completion.


the email from Lois means nothing, since all her communications had the following disclaimer:

"Information in this email supersedes any similar information we may have sent previously. The information that we distribute to our business partners and customers is produced in good faith and believed to be correct at the time of sending to the best of our knowledge, but should not be relied upon as a statement of fact. Nothing in this e-mail or any attachment shall be an acceptance of any offer previously made nor shall it be itself an offer capable of acceptance to form a legally binding contract.

on the basis that the formal letter that was sent out states that the delays are beyond their control, i must say, Tractor's post has got me thinking that maybe we havent got the assurance we all thought we had...

^^ some people have had written letters not emails about the compensation. I doubt if the written letter also had this disclaimer ?

^^ do you have such a letter?

This is getting silly, get on the phone to the sales manager/director and request it, they will happily supply it ! Lois was a she by the way.

You will have to be careful not to publish people's names on an open forum.

The letter is from Dubai select/select group and unless they go bust which I doubt, it will be OK. I can't see how they can not pay it so let us leave this one alone.

Seriously, the progress is quite poor and looks like 2011 more than 2010 by the day.

i would like to mention to only development in the marina that has been really fast has been emmar own projects. a large amount of projects (im not saying 100% have been delayed) have been slow apart from emaar. we must not look at princess tower because of the following reasons:

1. princess tower has a smaller base

2. all they have constructed is the lift shaft. no parking floors have been constructed as of yet.

^^ The Emaar projects with DCE as main contractor have not been on program.

I am not in Dubai and we don't have any pictures of Princess Tower basement so I will have to take your word for it.

^^ The Emaar projects with DCE as main contractor have not been on program.

Which projects are these then ??

The DS contract is different to other developers as it specifically states compensation will be paid and details what this will be and from what date. I doubt there has been any other contract in the Marina (ie, JBR, Marina Diamond, Marina View Towers etc...) whereby compensation is stated so clearly. I also doubt very much whether a Dubai Court would uphold the delay in obtaining the construction licence or even labour shortages etc. as "Force Majure". Normal construction delays cannot simply be palmed off as FM. (I would expect FM to be for example, the Marina walll caving in such as happened to the Infinity site - it would have to be something on this scale and not normal construction delays). Certainly the Dubai Land Department IMO would look very closely if DS did try to back down on compensation payments especially as I've heard they are tightening up a fair bit now on developers dodgy practices.

^^ do you have such a letter?
i got it in a letter by her

Corner of The Torch at ground level
The corner of The Torch at ground level. The DCE construction engineer is shown here between the columns which will form the balconies for the lower level 2 bedroom apartments, between UP and 22.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3412/01rc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Cranes move up another level
Both of the tower cranes are ready to be moved up another level and are currently jacked up with hydraulics so more crane-sections can be inserted. The marked out squares at he bottom of Picture 3 are steel ties; ready for ‘post tensioning’ the ground floor. When the concrete has been poured and set, these steel ties will be ‘tensioned’ or tightened to make the floor even stronger. This procedure will take longer for the ground floor than a typical podium floor.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8586/02uf5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



Overview of The Torch site
The right of the picture is the first image of The Torch ground floor level. In the core of the building the three temporary floors can be seen, this is where the concrete floors will be constructed. There are now two static concrete pumps on site, replacing the mobile concrete truck, which can no longer reach up this high. Three of the basement levels are now joined with the core section of the building, there is also a full set of stairs installed in the basement floors; providing the future fire escape and currently allowing easy access to the basement levels. Work still continues below ground in the basement levels; the block work is underway, creating storage areas and building system monitoring rooms.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/989/03cj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The Torch starts to stretch into the sky
The height of the core and ‘slip-form’ is now 15m above ground; around 4 podium levels high.

The ‘slip form’ is a method of constructing the major structural columns, acting as a mould to create the rebar, the slip from moves up the building using hydraulics. As the columns get higher, the slip form is then moved up the building and the concrete is poured into the completed sections. The slip form is usually moved around 3metres at a time.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/514/04yi3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

possible early morning view for TT residents

http://i24.tinypic.com/2ikbk8i.jpg

i see alburj tower from there lol

i got it in a letter by her

I have also paid 90% and got an email from Lois confirming compensation would be paid but a letter would be better.

Does anyone know who Lois' replacement is or the name of someone who can send such a letter? Please PM me if so...

By the way, I am not losing sleep about the company structure as I realise the inherent risk of off-plan investment. I have no desire to read such scare-mongering posts from idiots who have nothing better to do...

By the way, I am not losing sleep about the company structure as I realise the inherent risk of off-plan investment. I have no desire to read such scare-mongering posts from idiots who have nothing better to do...

Well said :applause:

I have also paid 90% and got an email from Lois confirming compensation would be paid but a letter would be better.

Does anyone know who Lois' replacement is or the name of someone who can send such a letter? Please PM me if so...

By the way, I am not losing sleep about the company structure as I realise the inherent risk of off-plan investment. I have no desire to read such scare-mongering posts from idiots who have nothing better to do...

i agree, but try and be nice.:)

^^ hey look its barry mcbarry !

Here are the high res photos from the update.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9590/t1oi9.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8204/t2ts8.jpg

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5813/t3ku3.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5530/t4sj7.jpg

possible early morning view for TT residents

http://i24.tinypic.com/2ikbk8i.jpg

i see alburj tower from there lol

Holy shit that's an amazing photo! Wish it could be around in high-res

I have also paid 90% and got an email from Lois confirming compensation would be paid but a letter would be better.

Does anyone know who Lois' replacement is or the name of someone who can send such a letter? Please PM me if so...

By the way, I am not losing sleep about the company structure as I realise the inherent risk of off-plan investment. I have no desire to read such scare-mongering posts from idiots who have nothing better to do...

Could a moderator please do something about this? If my opinion wasn't valid, why would you want a letter from DS?

Truth hurts I guess.

as usual emotions run high on the Torch thread lol

My two pennies worth:

The construction is slow but progressing, 2010 or even maybe 2011, but looking around "The Tortoise and the Hare" story comes to mind, so be patient and see and also compare with Infinity and now what is happening on Mag 218!

The fact that DS have organised their developments into various companies is surely a good thing. Should Torch fail and not get completed and I loose money I wouldn't want the investors in Point or Bay Central suffer or vice versa.

Everyone who bought into this is by definition a speculator, if u wanted a sure investment should have looked somewhere else even outside Dubai. Hopefully the rewards will match the risks at the end.

now chill out and enjoy the constuction breaking the ground (at last!!) :cheers: