I have pictures from Grosvenor house again, of Infinity plot, Torch, Mag, Pinnacle, etc. but not feeling like uploading them due to the abuse I've been getting!

^^

Tractor i love you, you are great and your opinions are always welcome here on this thread, as far as i am concerned. :lol:

Pretty please, with sugar on top, can you please post the Torch pics you have. :)

I think we should all realise that we are all entitled to our opinions, even though they may not be popular sometimes.

I have pictures from Grosvenor house again, of Infinity plot, Torch, Mag, Pinnacle, etc. but not feeling like uploading them due to the abuse I've been getting!

For God's sake stop being so sensitive. :nuts:

I have pictures from Grosvenor house again, of Infinity plot, Torch, Mag, Pinnacle, etc. but not feeling like uploading them due to the abuse I've been getting!

:grouphug: :lovethem: :kiss: :hug: :master: :master: :master: :lovethem: :kiss: :hug: :grouphug:

That's it guys, feed his already ginormous ego. :ohno:

^^ But we are torch photo junkies!:booze:

Tractor :master: :master: :master: :pet:

I have pictures from Grosvenor house again, of Infinity plot, Torch, Mag, Pinnacle, etc. but not feeling like uploading them due to the abuse I've been getting!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Go on Tractor, you know you want too:)

:poke:

Have you looked at the company structure of DS? It has been deliberately made so that one or more subsidiary could go bust or be intentionally wound up without effecting the rest of the company. Doesn't that worry you? Why don't other developers do this?



This is normal practice. In fact it is now a requirement of the new escrow law that a separate Escrow account is set up for each individual develelopment to provide precisely this protection to each development.

I have pictures from Grosvenor house again, of Infinity plot, Torch, Mag, Pinnacle, etc. but not feeling like uploading them due to the abuse I've been getting!

you're the man:cheer:

Sorry if I've upset you Tractor it was not meant to be anything personal.........just a bit of banter that we have from time to time on this thread. Here have one of these :hug: . Perhaps we can :kiss: and make up. You're a top :banana:
Hope that's made you feel a bit better. Now............ be a good chap and post the photos please.

Hi,

I'd like to be an obnoxious moron, and then have it all redeemed through the promise of posting some pics.

Best Regards
Combine Harvester

^^ You have a point there Naz.

I don't respond very well to blackmail and as far as I am concern, he can stick his photos where the sun does not shine. :bash:

Hi,

I'd like to be an obnoxious moron, and then have it all redeemed through the promise of posting some pics.

Best Regards
Combine Harvester

You're the one posting insults and being offensive - I merely posted my opinion that most DS investors don't want to hear.

If a moderator does something about the posts that are insulting me personally and have nothing to do with the topic, I'll put up some pictures.

I'm not going to reward childish and petulant behavior ...that has nothing to do with 'blackmail'

Hey, i was just saying i feel like being obnoxious, and calling myself Combine Harvester, that's all. Nothing to do with you Tractor. :)

I love the TT thread..........it's absolutely mental. :lol:

Anyone got any photo updates? Or theories as to why DS will go bust? Either will do. Where's JCB when you need him? :lol:
http://i24.tinypic.com/10d5v2a.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5497/tractorhy0.jpg

Dear Investors

Looking at the speed of marina 23 which is also being build by Dubai civil engineering , the same builders for the torch, marina 23 is advancing at a rapid rate, for what reason is the torch so slow.? i will be contacting ds to see what excuse they have regarding this.

realistic answers please act like investors.

I have just had a look at the last 5-6 pages of the 23 Marina thread and the progress has definitely been faster than the Torch.

I am no construction expert but my guess is that when DS or any developers contract a building company like DCE, then they are on some sort of stage payment deal where they receive payments from the developer only when they reach pre-agreed stages of construction such as, ground level, podium complete, floor 10, and so on.

As DCE are working on several towers / projects, then I guess that they manage their labour force dependent upon where they need them to maximise revenue and income streams. After all the labour force works for DCE and not DS or Damac.

It would be far more exiting to see the Torch fly up I agree, but again if anyone has invested in a supertall and is relying on having their keys on the contractual completion date then I’m afraid that is naive at best.

If I get my units in 2010, I will be more than happy. Remember Investors, completion delays are what’s keeping Dubai in a growth cycle at the moment.

Ask anyone who has invested in the Lighthouse or Infinity how they think The Torch is progressing.

An old article, but might be worth a re-read for some.


Piling and work underway in Dubai Marina on what will be one of the tallest residential towers in the world.|~|Dubai has earned the well-deserved moniker of ‘the city of superlatives’ — and the new US $191 million (AED700 million) Torch Tower, which is currently under construction in Dubai Marina, is no exception. When complete, the 360m-high superstructure will be one of the tallest new residential buildings in the world.

And a tower project such as this demands a range of cutting edge construction techniques, especially in the design stages. From the piling and ultra high-strength concrete, right through to a tower crane-mounted web cam to show overseas customers up-to-date progress of construction, the project team is aiming to deliver maximum quality in the minimum amount of time.

Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE) is the main contractor on the job, with National Engineering Bureau (NEB) as the design consultant, developing the original architectural concept from Khatib & Alami (K&A). Zublin Ground & Civil Engineering is the contractor for the piling and shoring works. The firm started work on site in February, and is nearing completion of its package.

“The secant pile wall is formed using a continuous 90cm diameter pile, incorporating an ‘over-cutting’ technique. This pile wall includes a three-layer anchor system to withstand the earth and water pressures,” says Holgar Wolfle, the project manager for Zublin. The main structure foundation piles are driven into the ground to a depth of 50m and have been re-designed to incorporate larger diameter piles under the central core spine, where the greatest pressure exists, to increase the stability of the structure.

According to Wolfle, on three sides of the site the shoring system is already finished with only the anchor layer still to be installed. The remaining side, which completes the shoring system, will be formed using a 1.2m-diameter pile that does not require any anchors. “After we’ve finished the shoring works, we will start the excavation and then the dewatering,” adds Wolfe. The rest of the dewatering will go down below the final excavation depth. “We are not lowering the water table outside of the site, only inside.”

Main contractors DCE will take over as soon as Zublin finishes the piling. “We’re looking to come in around August or September 2006,” says Venu Menon, project director, DCE. “We will start off by cutting the piles and doing the excavation for the four basement floors,” he adds.

The tower will comprise four basements plus a further four floors above the ground — a total of eight floors for car parking. Above these will be the leisure deck, with the residential area beginning on floor six. There also will be access to the roof to allow residents a panoramic view of the skyline. “The four basement floors, the parking floors and the leisure deck will each take up an area of around 3400m2 per floor. Once we start the residential units, this will decrease to around 1100m2 per floor,” says Menon.

The building will then be brought up gradually using slip form formwork, provided by DCE, to cast the floors. “DCE has an in-house slip form division which will be slipping the core,” explains Menon, “and we will always be three to four floors ahead of the slab.” The concrete for the floor slab will be 4m thick. All the slabs will be post-tensioned, again by DCE — the company was in fact one of the first to bring post-tensioning to the UAE market.

“We’ve done around 150 towers in Dubai and Sharjah — in Dubai Marina last year we handled over eight towers, and we currently have another seven in various stages of completion,” says Menon. He says that all DCE jobs use post-tensioned flat slabs. “This has the definite advantage of not having any drop beams, which makes life easier for the mechanical services, and speeds up the job.”

One of the most striking features of the tower (and the one that gives it its name) is the large LED display, which will be installed at the top of the building. The fully programmable iconic screen is likely to measure 30 to 40m in length, with the display being formed into a flame-shaped poly-carbon structure at the top of the tower. “This could be used as an artistic decoration feature, which could be displayed on the screen,” explains David Mullen, project manager at Dubai Select (the project’s developer).

A building of this height demands very high-strength concrete. “Tall structures will have a certain degree of movement nearing the top and it is normal to expect lateral sway of around 30cm in structures of this height. “In the floor sections we will be using 60-Newton concrete, and in some of the lower columns, 100 Newtons; but typically the building will be around 80 Newtons,” says Mullen.

Cladding on the building will be a mixture of aluminium and
glass and will be provided by DCE. “The lead time now for glass is about 12 weeks,” says Menon. “We have a licence to use an American profile and we buy the glass locally. “But aluminium is no problem since we have our own extrusion factory in Dubai Investments Park,” he adds.

“There are very few things we don’t do in-house, but one is readymix,” admits Menon. “We buy this from firms such as RMC and Unimix.” He says that tower projects demand one readymix supplier right from the beginning: “After eight or 10 floors you need to have a hydraulic placing boom and a stationary pump. And the supplier of this boom and pump won’t allow any other supplier to pump concrete through their equipment.”

Despite the plot’s location slap bang in the heart of Dubai Marina, Menon says that he is not anticipating any problems with delivery of materials: “Three sides of this site are surrounded by an asphalted road. And once the parking floors are built, we’ll use them as a storage area for all the finishing materials to help maximise space.”

In a bold manouevre, Dubai Select pre-agreed a contract price — around US $191 million (AED700 million) — with DCE at the start of the project. “We’ve guaranteed a maximum price we’re going to pay DCE, and we believe we’re the first to do that in the UAE,” says Mullen. But what happens if the price of steel, for example, shoots up again? Not a problem, according to Menon: “We have arrangements in place if there are substantial price increases,” he says. “Rebar is a potential problem, as we used to source it from a factory, but now we’ve set up our own facility in Jebel Ali, which will go into production in a month’s time.”

While DCE appears to have most bases covered thanks to its sizeable in-house capabilities, Dubai Select has decided to add a high-tech touch to the project by making use of web cam technology to show its Torch Tower customers what stage construction is at. “Around 80% of the tower has already been sold, mainly to customers in the UK, so we decided to install a web cam on site, so people can access the project wherever they may be,” explains Mullen. “It is new for our customers, and as far as we know it’s new for Dubai. We’re going to move the web cam around the site, so people can see the entire construction process,” he adds.

The quality of the construction process will come under close scrutiny via a long-term facilities management (FM) programme that has been devised by Dubai Select. “We’re already looking at the maintenance of the block and have devised a 10 to 20-year facilities management programme, which will include checking the post-tensioning for the concrete and looking at the fixing points,” explains Mullen. “We have around 30 contractors in line for the FM contract with bids due back in the next few weeks.” Although the FM award won’t be made until after the first year of maintenance from DCE, Mullen says it’s important to get the procedures in place now. “Look around and you’ll see we’re in a very dynamic market — contractors are over-stretched, and if you don’t get them signed up in advance there may not be any available.”

When the building is completed it is likely to be another landmark in the city of Dubai, according to Adnan Rahhal, project manager at NEB. “It’s going to be a unique tower in terms of its shape, height and location,” he says. “There aren’t many towers above the 50-floor mark in this area.” And judging by the fact that Torch Tower is already 80% sold, it would appear that Dubai’s construction flame is in little danger of blowing out just yet.

An old article, but might be worth a re-read for some.


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3169814/2/istockphoto_3169814_sleepy_computer_maniac.jpg

I think it's more than a coincidence that every photo we've seen over the last few months only shows a handful of workers (pics from DS included). Yes I know some have been taken on Fridays and the weather's been hot etc...... but the amount of people working on site is always low. There's not been one picture where we can believe the "accelerated" building programme is taking place - surely by the law of averages we'd have see at least one ?? I'm getting pissed off with the slow progress here, which is getting particularly worse seeing Marina 23 rising at such a pace. I agree with what was said a few days ago "where are all the fxxxkin' workers were paying for ? ".

My only consolation is that I'm on a low floor and hence I will be handed the keys in the phased handover of the tower, so I'll be moving in whilst they are still constructing the top floors. :lol:








(Sorry your President of the DS Fanclub is starting to lose it now !! )

errrm.. Doesn't Imre only post Marina pics on Fridays ?

((In a bold manouevre, Dubai Select pre-agreed a contract price — around US $191 million (AED700 million) — with DCE at the start of the project. “We’ve guaranteed a maximum price we’re going to pay DCE, and we believe we’re the first to do that in the UAE,” says Mullen. But what happens if the price of steel, for example, shoots up again? Not a problem, according to Menon: “We have arrangements in place if there are substantial price increases,” he says. “Rebar is a potential problem, as we used to source it from a factory, but now we’ve set up our own facility in Jebel Ali, which will go into production in a month’s time.”))



that point gives me comfort, and might explain why the build is so slow, DCE is in binding contract to build the whole thing , but cant be happy about the increase of price of everything to build the project, hence doing just what is contractually needed and devoting more effort to more profitable contracts.
or am i becoming paranoid

I think that's as good an explanation as any.

We're going to be lucky to find the four podium levels built by Christmas. Then there are another 78 floors to go which at say 1.5 floors per week is 2 years 3 months so that will take us to end of March 2010. Then another 12 months to fit out so completion unlikely before March 2011. Add on a few months for unseen delays and we may see hand-over mid 2011. Given that I signed up in October 2005 this will be a six year wait to have my apartment built. And this will be 3 years after the initial completion date in my contract of June 2008 !!! :bash: I'm sorry but this is not acceptable IMO.

You are teasing me Morris, are you trying to get me going again?

Al's chill tablets are too strong :)

Where is Alan by the way, I am starting to get worried about him.

1.5 floors per week is very optimistic but you are right it is not going to be any time before 2011

I think that's as good an explanation as any.

We're going to be lucky to find the four podium levels built by Christmas. Then there are another 78 floors to go which at say 1.5 floors per week is 2 years 3 months so that will take us to end of March 2010. Then another 12 months to fit out so completion unlikely before March 2011. Add on a few months for unseen delays and we may see hand-over mid 2011. Given that I signed up in October 2005 this will be a six year wait to have my apartment built. And this will be 3 years after the initial completion date in my contract of June 2008 !!! :bash: I'm sorry but this is not acceptable IMO.

In fairness, this is normal for such a tower anywhere else in the world. It's just that the Dubai developers claim rediculous completion dates.

In a bold manouevre, Dubai Select pre-agreed a contract price — around US $191 million (AED700 million) — with DCE at the start of the project. “We’ve guaranteed a maximum price we’re going to pay DCE, and we believe we’re the first to do that in the UAE,” says Mullen. But what happens if the price of steel, for example, shoots up again? Not a problem, according to Menon: “We have arrangements in place if there are substantial price increases,” he says. “Rebar is a potential problem, as we used to source it from a factory, but now we’ve set up our own facility in Jebel Ali, which will go into production in a month’s time.”

Cost control may not be the best thing when it comes to paying contractors. In a couple of the Abu Dhabi threads there's talk of how government clients' refusal to pay contractors what they needed or wanted has led to severe delays--counted in years, not months. Cost control on the MAG 218 project is having a negative impact with the developer having opted to build the tower itself rather than yield to contractor demands. Ideally, there ought to be pre-agreed upon rates with the provision for adjustment either up or down when "extreme" circumstances arise. Extreme, of course, is the operative variable which could lead to dispute, but it is better to engage in such dispute than halt work on a project.

Given that I signed up in October 2005 this will be a six year wait to have my apartment built. And this will be 3 years after the initial completion date in my contract of June 2008 !!! :bash: I'm sorry but this is not acceptable IMO. Come on ... chill out ... You'll be receiving 3 years of compensation payments :lol:

How are they going to afford 3 years of compensation payments for everyone ?

How are they going to afford 3 years of compensation payments for everyone ?

unless they went and spent our money on other developments, it should be resting in a very high interest account, meaning , they will not pay a penny out of their pockets, just passing the interest they have been accumulating hopeful to us.
can any one make a informed guess on how much interest they have collected to date?

I doubt anyone will get 3 years delay compensation. Better get prepared now then get shot in the foot 3 - 4 years from now.

^^ Errm there is something called paying for the work being done so not all your money is in the bank some off it will have been spent. And more will be spent along the line and quite a lot of people have taken the finace option so they not actually paid much beyond x deposit

I don't think they'd make enough on Interest to cover compensation for every single person, but i'm no accounts person

^^ Errm there is something called paying for the work being done so not all your money is in the bank some off it will have been spent. And more will be spent along the line and quite a lot of people have taken the finace option so they not actually paid much beyond x deposit

I don't think they'd make enough on Interest to cover compensation for every single person, but i'm no accounts person


would you say %10 of the build is complete?, if so all other moneys (%90) + what ever margins they got inform of a profit is still unaccounted for, and has been for a very long time.

Select Property have confirmed in writing that we will be getting compensation paid from 31 Dec 08 and that they are not claiming FM for delays to date. Of course any delays in the future could possibly still be claimed as FM.

http://www.dcimprov.com/boring.jpg

I quite agree

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/05/18/23211805.jpg

Wake me up when we top out.................


http://www.babytimeonline.co.uk/images/sleeping_baby.jpg

Every heard the experssion cricular argument thats what this thread is getting like

3 years delay at 6ish% on £135,000 average= £24,000 payment to all.... :)

It's boring because everything is a theory right at this moment, Tower not even got 1st floor and we are discussing compensation.

Yes it will be delayed beyond original date, it looks like DS will be compensating too, how long the delay is no one knows could be more then estimated or less.

So those are the actual facts as at this moment so end of story turn the page

3 years delay at 6ish% on £135,000 average= £24,000 payment to all.... :)

So...some people might lose some money on speculative real estate investment. Yep, that's a "boring". I can't enter a room without seeing someone who might lose some money on speculative real estate investment.

3 years delay at 6ish% on £135,000 average= £24,000 payment to all.... :)

How do you arrive at 3years delay or do you know for a fact that completion is 2011?

^^ Completion maybe not, but the handover for sure.

yes I tend to agree now. Did not think I would be saying that but I would be pleased if even the podium is complete by the new year. Oh well, at least the quarterly payments will be a bit easier to make with the compensation.

God I miss Imre :cry:

How do you arrive at 3years delay or do you know for a fact that completion is 2011?

OK here's my thoughts:

Podium completed in 3 months time = Jan 2008
78 floors at 2 weeks a floor = 156 weeks = 3 years = Jan 2011
Plus another year to fit out and hand over = Jan 2012

Sounds realistic at current rate of progress. So we're looking at Jan 2012 then ??

Yeah, not far off there Morris, let me make some minor adjustments however:

Podium completed in 3 months time + Jan 2008
78 floors at 3 floors per week = 6 months, or to be precise, top-out Saturday, 12th July, 2008.
A couple of weeks to finish off fit out, mechanical, plumbing, electrical works and :toilet: toilet roll holders. = Official handover date = 8am, Sunday, 27th July.

See ya then guys. ::cheer:

^^ Yeah sound ok that, you don't need kitchens, eat from place in the Marina as long as you got a toilet roll holder can't go wrong.

Morris i think 2012 might be taking it a bit to far out

OK here's my thoughts:

Podium completed in 3 months time = Jan 2008
78 floors at 2 weeks a floor = 156 weeks = 3 years = Jan 2011
Plus another year to fit out and hand over = Jan 2012

Sounds realistic at current rate of progress. So we're looking at Jan 2012 then ??

Once we get to repetitive floors it'll fly up. Think one floor a week.

OK here's my thoughts:

Podium completed in 3 months time = Jan 2008
78 floors at 2 weeks a floor = 156 weeks = 3 years = Jan 2011
Plus another year to fit out and hand over = Jan 2012

Sounds realistic at current rate of progress. So we're looking at Jan 2012 then ??


ultra depressing, but most likely true. can we do any thing about it?

^^

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/760/356091.JPG

^^ Buy a Delorean !

Morris I'm really pissed at you. The shit you gave me over the 2011 thing now you've turned me into an optomist from a pessimist by over taking me at mach 3 to the year 2012.

:cry:

The rental market is set for a spectacular crash around January 2008* anyway, according to yeast merchants and er, other experts, so compensation payments should be higher than any rental income. That's they way i'm gona look at it. Like this -> :nuts:

Current predictions to win a tenner.

7 Jeetha
8 Shaffar
9 Morrismarina
10 High Times
11 Joannides
12 True Blue (Would have been my guess but he got there first and 13 is unlucky!)
13 Scoot68
14 Anjam
15 Chefdude
16 mackie1964
17 Sheltie
18 Rexdmx
19 agod
20 Tag_One
56 Naz UK (Cos he's rich!)

Here are the rules.


One entry per person
Last date to enter 30th September
Entries can be amended up until 30th September
Any accounts created after 7th September can not enter for obvious reasons
True Blue (cos he knows his stuff), High Times (Cos it was his idea) and Myself (cos it's my tenner)will judge which "Residential" floor has been completed for the "Core" not including any floor still waiting to set within the form work by 6pm UAE time on New years eve. We will decide from a picture provided by Imre, HateTorch or any other respected forumer
Payment will only be made by Paypal. If you don't have a Paypal account it goes to Charity.
Judges decision is final, no bickering or grovelling :-) In the event of a draw the winner will the one who guessed without going over. e.g A picks 12 B pick 14, actual floor count is 13 so A wins
No duplicate entries so get your guess in quick. The final list will be the one posted by me on the 30th September
[/QUOTE]

^^ You guys want to reconsider !!!!

^^ Ehhh, Yeah...... I thought you were referring to 23 marina, honest!! :lol:

It's all for fun, nothing more! :gaah:

:hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious ^^ Buy a Delorean !

Morris I'm really pissed at you. The shit you gave me over the 2011 thing now you've turned me into an optomist from a pessimist by over taking me at mach 3 to the year 2012.

:cry:




:hilarious :hilarious

I hate to say it, but I just walked by marina 23 and it was buzzing with workers, then walked past the Torch, which was dead...

^^ Buy a Delorean !

Morris I'm really pissed at you. The shit you gave me over the 2011 thing now you've turned me into an optomist from a pessimist by over taking me at mach 3 to the year 2012.

:cry:

Yes I know True Blue, sorry about this, I did give you a massive amount of stick and I'm afraid I've got to take it all back now and admit you were right. :cry:

I've been forced into revising my forecast to a massive extent now. I could just pretend to everybody that I think completion will be in Sept'09 and that everything is hunky dory, but that would be dishonest of me.

Now my change of sentiment is not due to anything on my part, unfortunately I haven't got a f@@kin' crystal ball, it's due to the slow rate of construction over the last few months. I think we can all see that best case scenario the podium levels might be finished by year end (not floor 12 as even you predicted yourself True Blue). So the progress anticpated by ALL OF US only two months ago is now very, very wide of the mark now. So IMO Q1 2012 looks likely.

If anybody would like to cheer me up and produce what they think is a more encouraging timeline than mine, then feel free.

I had been working on TT providing me with some rental income to fund my payments on BC, but clearly this is not going to happen now. :cry:

I hate to say it, but I just walked by marina 23 and it was buzzing with workers, then walked past the Torch, which was dead...
Thanks for the update Joan.

:wtf: IS HAPPENING HERE????

I hate to say it, but I just walked by marina 23 and it was buzzing with workers, then walked past the Torch, which was dead...

really?:fiddle:

I just don't know but I intend finding out on Monday... I'll also take some photos and uplaod them on Tuesday

I just don't know but I intend finding out on Monday... I'll also take some photos and uplaod them on Tuesday

great work sherlock:lol:

Great to have you back Barry!

^^ Buy a Delorean !

Morris I'm really pissed at you.
:cry:

I thought you were a Rangers fan - Is that New York Rangers cause that doesn't sound Glaswegian to me :)

I thought you were a Rangers fan - Is that New York Rangers cause that doesn't sound Glaswegian to me :)

He's going to be REALLY pissed off if you accuse him of being a Rangers fan. :lol:

I thought you were a Rangers fan - Is that New York Rangers cause that doesn't sound Glaswegian to me :)

It's the Strathclyde uni education shining through :smug bass:

Oh! we don't have one of those smilies. ;)

Yes I know True Blue, sorry about this, I did give you a massive amount of stick and I'm afraid I've got to take it all back now and admit you were right. :cry:

I've been forced into revising my forecast to a massive extent now. I could just pretend to everybody that I think completion will be in Sept'09 and that everything is hunky dory, but that would be dishonest of me.

Now my change of sentiment is not due to anything on my part, unfortunately I haven't got a f@@kin' crystal ball, it's due to the slow rate of construction over the last few months. I think we can all see that best case scenario the podium levels might be finished by year end (not floor 12 as even you predicted yourself True Blue). So the progress anticpated by ALL OF US only two months ago is now very, very wide of the mark now. So IMO Q1 2012 looks likely.

If anybody would like to cheer me up and produce what they think is a more encouraging timeline than mine, then feel free.

I had been working on TT providing me with some rental income to fund my payments on BC, but clearly this is not going to happen now. :cry:


^^ Morris, I feel your pain. If you need a bit of cheering up have a look at what's happening at MAG218. Looking at Marina 23 also cheers me up. It gets me thinking if anyone can build a tower quickly DCE can. Why that kind of resource isn't being assigned to TT is something we need to find out.

Hopefully as Malec says, progress will be more "apparant" when podium floors have been completed. I assume a lot of work is going unnoticed. Remember the huge gaps between the floors and the core etc.

Cheer up fella, maybe your BC apartment can help pay for the TT one!!

I hate to say it, but I just walked by marina 23 and it was buzzing with workers, then walked past the Torch, which was dead...

I don't understand why DCE is giving 23 marina priority over the Torch. :bash:

^^ Thats because DS have not paid DCE the next installement of the money they owe them. In other words NO MONEY = NO DCE CONSTUCTION ON THE TORCH.

Do you know that for a fact or are you guessing? If so, why have they not paid? Escrow problems maybe?

just strolled past the Torch plot again. the good news is there are quite a lot of workers on site. theyre having a break of some sort, but they are there - 30 - 40 workers that i could see.

Smshah I think you'll find DS are one of DCE's best customers. You obviously know nothing about the people behind DS or you would not make such a stupid comment.

^^ Well then BillyBoy if you the people who are behind DS etc etc etc, why dont u spill the beans? Or are u going to say i cant do that coz of etc. etc. etc. etc. in other words blah blah blah blah blah!

“Around 80% of the tower has already been sold, mainly to customers in the UK, so we decided to install a web cam on site, so people can access the project wherever they may be,” explains Mullen. “It is new for our customers, and as far as we know it’s new for Dubai. We’re going to move the web cam around the site, so people can see the entire construction process,” he adds.


Has anyone approched DS and asked where is this camera, or was it just part of the DS marketing machine ?

If it exists what is the URL for it ?

^^ Well then BillyBoy if you the people who are behind DS etc etc etc, why dont u spill the beans? Or are u going to say i cant do that coz of etc. etc. etc. etc. in other words blah blah blah blah blah!

There are no beans to be spilled..! If you’re a genuine Torch investor call DS and ask for the names of the directors & shareholders.
You claim in an earlier post that DS have not paid DCE so construction has stopped.. Less than an hour after your post another forum member tells us that he's just seen workers on the site proving you wrong.
Why are you trying to cause panic amongst Torch investors?

How many workers were on 23 marina compared to the 30 or so on the Torch ?

How many workers were on 23 marina compared to the 30 or so on the Torch ?



It not comparable. There were loads more workers, but the crucial point is they we all BUSY on Marina 23 - really, it was buzzing with activity.

The torch workers were there but not doing anything (I thought on a break).

I just came back from there again (10.00pm Dubai time) and the Torch site seemed dead again - only a security guard and all lights turned off except one. I walked round the side and saw some workers but again they're just sitting there but nobody is working - they wouldn't be able to as they wouldn't be able to see anything (maybe on another break???)

^^ Any chance you could ask the Construction Manager when you are next on site to the number of workers and the working hours.

I am going to have to pay our DS friends a visit and find out what is going on!

***

Smshah I think you'll find DS are one of DCE's best customers. You obviously know nothing about the people behind DS or you would not make such a stupid comment.

Thanks for your comments Billyboy but the issue we have here is not around who owns DS, we already know this stuff. I also agree that it's ridiculous for people to wildy speculate that DS have funding problems, we all know that they're probably one of the most cash positive developers in Dubai.

The issue is around the accelerated building programme and the fact that we're seeing very little evidence of this whilst the construction partner DCE is clearly giving priority to another development.

Have you any explanation for what is happening here ?

With the fear of being repetative....

DCE manages their labourforce in the way that best suits their needs and their financial implications.

They really dont give a shit about investors bitching that their tower isn't growing fast enough.

DCE's client is Dubai Select, and we know that as far as the Torch is concerned they are on a fixed price from Steve's earlier post, so my guess is that Marina 23 progress is more financially rewarding at this stage of the game. The developers of Marina 23 may even have structured in bonus payments if certain timescales are reached.

The difference in progress between towers of similar construction and the same builder is dictated purely by financial implications to the builder.

As compensation payments are linked to LIBOR rates it hardly acts as a massive incentive to finish a project on time as it isn't really costing the developer anything.

Thanks for your comments Billyboy but the issue we have here is not around who owns DS, we already know this stuff. I also agree that it's ridiculous for people to wildy speculate that DS have funding problems, we all know that they're probably one of the most cash positive developers in Dubai.

The issue is around the accelerated building programme and the fact that we're seeing very little evidence of this whilst the construction partner DCE is clearly giving priority to another development.

Have you any explanation for what is happening here ?

Morris I've no idea why Marina 23 is progressing faster than the Torch, I would guess that the Marina 23 developers may have some pretty big time penalties written into their contract with DCE. I would expect DS to have the same penalty clauses but maybe they are based on different completion stages.
I once heard a story that a contractor owed a developer money after six months of work due to penalty clauses. The contractor then managed to accelerate the progress to a stage where they were ahead of schedule later in the build.

My point is smshah was posting complete rubbish about a developer he obviously knows nothing about.

Taken from Heights on 06-oct-2007, 2pm, GMT+4
There are approximately at least 60 visible workers from naked eye at my viewpoint.

http://i23.tinypic.com/2zpruds.jpg

Taken from Heights on 07-Oct-2007, 5:30pm, GMT+4

http://i23.tinypic.com/2z7mxpx.jpg

Many thanks HateTorch, Much appreciated.

It does not look any where near to the 300 - 500 workers as I was told about a few weeks back and according to Joan it is not 24 hrs working :bash:

As time goes by and more areas of work open up, I expected to see a great increase in pace and not the opposite, Could materials availability be an issue? Could it be that yet again they have a "Technical issues" :jk: or is it just as some people suggested above that the contractor have no LDs on their contract?

While I understand the Car park ramp angles, the angle towards the back road confuses me, it might be just the photo angle!

Thanks for the update! Not much progress this week, but atleast they're doing something. They poured some columns and installed formwork left of the core. at the right side they're installing rebar.

With the fear of being repetative....

DCE manages their labourforce in the way that best suits their needs and their financial implications.

They really dont give a shit about investors bitching that their tower isn't growing fast enough.

DCE's client is Dubai Select, and we know that as far as the Torch is concerned they are on a fixed price from Steve's earlier post, so my guess is that Marina 23 progress is more financially rewarding at this stage of the game. The developers of Marina 23 may even have structured in bonus payments if certain timescales are reached.

The difference in progress between towers of similar construction and the same builder is dictated purely by financial implications to the builder.

As compensation payments are linked to LIBOR rates it hardly acts as a massive incentive to finish a project on time as it isn't really costing the developer anything.

I take it you're quite happy with all this then and are confident that a Sept'09 handover is still achievable ?

I would have thought having to pay compensation linked to LIBOR would actually be an incentive to get the project finished on time. Can't see how this would not really cost the developer anything, surely it's going to cost them quite a lot ?

On the point of compensation does anybody actually know which LIBOR rate is used as contract just states LIBOR. Is it 3 month LIBOR ?? Which currency, presumably Dirhams but is there a LIBOR rate for the Dirham, the British Bankers Association website does not list the Dirham as an available LIBOR rate. And how will DS pay it to us, every month, quarter or will they (for those 90% paid) simply reduce the final payment ??

Taken from Heights on 07-Oct-2007, 7:15pm, GMT+4.
It is very cooling now in Dubai.
And there are workers ( no estimation) on site at time of taken.

http://i21.tinypic.com/2nrgi2u.jpg

Many thanks for the photos HateTorch :okay:

@ morris

As AED is linked to US Dollar(for now), I assume that this is what they will follow.

I think there is an average rate for Overnight, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly, I ma not sure but it is worth checking !

Has anyone approched DS and asked where is this camera, or was it just part of the DS marketing machine ?

If it exists what is the URL for it ?

I remember somebody asking DS about this last year some time and they said that the webcam will be installed once they are a few residential floors above ground.

I take it you're quite happy with all this then and are confident that a Sept'09 handover is still achievable ?

I would have thought having to pay compensation linked to LIBOR would actually be an incentive to get the project finished on time. Can't see how this would not really cost the developer anything, surely it's going to cost them quite a lot ?

On the point of compensation does anybody actually know which LIBOR rate is used as contract just states LIBOR. Is it 3 month LIBOR ?? Which currency, presumably Dirhams but is there a LIBOR rate for the Dirham, the British Bankers Association website does not list the Dirham as an available LIBOR rate. And how will DS pay it to us, every month, quarter or will they (for those 90% paid) simply reduce the final payment ??

No Morris, I wouldnt say i am happy with progress but at least it is progress.

My rational with regard to compensation being an easy option is explained as follows;

DS have 95%+ sold out in The Torch. Apparently it was 70%+ sold out within a few months of launch back in May 2005. (facts according to DS, not mine).

DS pay DCE and other costs as work is completed at various stages (not in advance).

Some investors have paid 90% of their units already. Any investors using the lengthy payment plan have simply taken out a non status mortgage with a 70% LTV, (loan to value). This facility has been underwritten by a 3rd party, (bank, finance house, private equity firm, sister company of DS, i guess).

This effectively means that DS have had the cash funds in full for any units sold in The Torch for as long as the units have been sold. This is already 2 1/2 years +, by completion it could be 4,5 years +.

Compensation isn't due to be paid until June 2009, furthermore many of the later contracts have a later completion date built in, so some units will not get compensation paid until March 2010.

This means that DS have had, and will have, £millions sat on cash deposit (probably invested in the money markets) for a very long time indeed. The compounded interest on these funds will more than pay for any compensation due as long as the compensation payment period is shorter than the period of which the funds have been accumalting interest.

So as long as compensation isn't payable for longer than 4 years DS will not financialy lose out in paying compensation. I reckon the compensation would have to run to 2012/2013 to have any negative impact to DS.

What make you think that DS hasn't used the money from the sale of Torch apartments for paying their bills related to other developments?

I doubt anyone will really believe that the money is being kept in an account somewhere.

I agree, in practice DS do not leave their funds in a post office savings account awaiting withdrawal to buy materials.

My explanation was simplified to make the point that compensation payments are not harsh enough to do serious damage to a developer. Especially when paid in Dirham, but linked to a low inflation econemy such as UK LIBOR.

Obviously The Torch is DS 1st project and their other projects are way behined so you can hardly say that Torch funds are funding Bay Central concrete pours can you ?

Furthermore i understand that Escrow now forbids cross project funding by developers.

No Morris, I wouldnt say i am happy with progress but at least it is progress.

My rational with regard to compensation being an easy option is explained as follows;

DS have 95%+ sold out in The Torch. Apparently it was 70%+ sold out within a few months of launch back in May 2005. (facts according to DS, not mine).

DS pay DCE and other costs as work is completed at various stages (not in advance).

Some investors have paid 90% of their units already. Any investors using the lengthy payment plan have simply taken out a non status mortgage with a 70% LTV, (loan to value). This facility has been underwritten by a 3rd party, (bank, finance house, private equity firm, sister company of DS, i guess).

This effectively means that DS have had the cash funds in full for any units sold in The Torch for as long as the units have been sold. This is already 2 1/2 years +, by completion it could be 4,5 years +.

Compensation isn't due to be paid until June 2009, furthermore many of the later contracts have a later completion date built in, so some units will not get compensation paid until March 2010.

This means that DS have had, and will have, £millions sat on cash deposit (probably invested in the money markets) for a very long time indeed. The compounded interest on these funds will more than pay for any compensation due as long as the compensation payment period is shorter than the period of which the funds have been accumalting interest.

So as long as compensation isn't payable for longer than 4 years DS will not financialy lose out in paying compensation. I reckon the compensation would have to run to 2012/2013 to have any negative impact to DS.

Well explained High Times, thanks, yes I can see where you're comming from now. That does me some comfort in the DS should be well up for honouring the contract and paying compensation - not as good as having rental income, but better than nothing.

If anybody's interested here's a link to the BBA website

http://www.bba.org.uk/bba/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=141&a=627

where you can download LIBOR rates - they're about a week behind in posting them but latest rates for 3 month LIBOR as at 27th September are:

UK £6.30625
US $5.23063

Taken from Heights on 07-Oct-2007, 7:15pm, GMT+4.
It is very cooling now in Dubai.
And there are workers ( no estimation) on site at time of taken.

http://i21.tinypic.com/2nrgi2u.jpg


Thanks for the photos Hatetorch. Its nice to know they're are workers but the point I'm trying to make is that work is not happening 24 hours a day at this site (let alone a greatly reduced number of workers).

I'll upload my photos on Tuesday which show the Torch site with NO activity at all and with all lights turned off execpt one. I took my photos at 10.00pm. My issues is that I should be able to turn up anytime within a 24 hour period and always see acticity on site. From your viewpoint, have you noticed whether no activity/lights off is a regular thing after 10.00pm?

It would be great if you could confirm, given you're there all the time. Thanks again.

I agree, in practice DS do not leave their funds in a post office savings account awaiting withdrawal to buy materials.

My explanation was simplified to make the point that compensation payments are not harsh enough to do serious damage to a developer. Especially when paid in Dirham, but linked to a low inflation econemy such as UK LIBOR.

Obviously The Torch is DS 1st project and their other projects are way behined so you can hardly say that Torch funds are funding Bay Central concrete pours can you ?

Furthermore i understand that Escrow now forbids cross project funding by developers.

Surely any ambitious developer with not much financial backing would have used the Torch money to purchase the land for the Point and Bay Central. How else would they afford the land, marketing, salaries, architects fees etc.

DS have 95%+ sold out in The Torch. Apparently it was 70%+ sold out within a few months of launch back in May 2005. (facts according to DS, not mine).

Compensation isn't due to be paid until June 2009, furthermore many of the later contracts have a later completion date built in, so some units will not get compensation paid until March 2010.

2 minor corrections, firstly according to DS, the tower has now completely sold out. Any sales are in the resale market.

Secondly, according to my contract (and im sure many others) compensation will be paid beyond 6 months of the stated completion date, which according to my contract is June 2008. So i'm guessing compensation will begin Jan 09 for some.

2 minor corrections, firstly according to DS, the tower has now completely sold out. Any sales are in the resale market.

Secondly, according to my contract (and im sure many others) compensation will be paid beyond 6 months of the stated completion date, which according to my contract is June 2008. So i'm guessing compensation will begin Jan 09 for some.

Yes my contract has the same dates as yours Naz. I would guess that most purchasers have this date, the ones with a later date are those who must have bought only fairly recently - but given that the TT has been mostly sold out now for a long time, there shouldn't be many of them.

Surely any ambitious developer with not much financial backing would have used the Torch money to purchase the land for the Point and Bay Central. How else would they afford the land, marketing, salaries, architects fees etc.

Steve, your right about marketing, salaries, architects fees etc, there are operating costs involved to get us where we are today for sure, and of course the land is a major expense i agree.

DS would have secured the purchase of land, paid for consulancy and feasability studies way before they sold contracts to purchase units. This means that DS are not cash funded and must have borrowings. This would explain why "The Select Group's" accounting, and group structure has many layers. This is common when smaller companies trade along side each other within a large group holding. Money is often moved between the individual companies to suit the overall group strategy, not to mention several tax loopholes that can be exploited in this way.

This is why once they had sold all of the units in the Torch they could take their foot off the gas.

My key point really is that DS "Torch" have had a lot of money sat idle for a long time, so compensation wont hurt in the short term.

I for one have settled for the idea of compensation beginning Jan '09. Any delay in handover beyond that is purely academic for me, as I can only speak for myself. I've got sufficient patience/financial contigency etc to make it work for me and clearly understood the ins and outs of off-plan buying from day 1.

Other's clearly haven't. But that's fine, each to their own.

I for one have settled for the idea of compensation beginning Jan '09. Any delay in handover beyond that is purely academic for me, as I can only speak for myself. I've got sufficient patience/financial contigency etc to make it work for me and clearly understood the ins and outs of off-plan buying from day 1.

Other's clearly haven't. But that's fine, each to their own.

Naz you beter have a lye down,

That's the most sencible thing youve ever said.:)

What make you think that DS hasn't used the money from the sale of Torch apartments for paying their bills related to other developments?

I doubt anyone will really believe that the money is being kept in an account somewhere.

the torch i understand was the first project, right?,, if so, now DS is developing half dozen others, you think that they have moved the cash a round?
is that legal with the new laws Dubai is implementing for developers?

when my contract was sent 6 moths ago, they (DS) tried to alter my compensation date, making it a year later that stated in earlier contracts. that shows they are completely aware of it & is a part of their expenditure

the torch i understand was the first project, right?,, if so, now DS is developing half dozen others, you think that they have moved the cash a round?
is that legal with the new laws Dubai is implementing for developers?

It's actually one sixth of a dozen others. (that's 2 others).

Hate Torch - Thanks for the pics as i was begining to suffer from withdrawal symptoms.

Is there any activity on the plots in front of the Torch and Marina Heights lately? If there is could you please post a pic on the relevant thread.

If not could you plant some fast growing trees and shrubs, i would suggest Cupressocyparis leylandii.

Hopefully Emaar or who ever owns the land forgets all about it and does the right thing and creates an arboretum for all marina residents to enjoy.

Many thanks.

HT

What's an arboretum? Sounds like a tropical disease you'd catch if you went fishing naked in Lake Malawi.

Cupressocyparis leylandii.


HT

^^ That grows approx 3 ft per year. Nearly as fast as the Torch ! :jk:

Hate Torch - Thanks for the pics as i was begining to suffer from withdrawal symptoms.

Is there any activity on the plots in front of the Torch and Marina Heights lately? If there is could you please post a pic on the relevant thread.

If not could you plant some fast growing trees and shrubs, i would suggest Cupressocyparis leylandii.

Hopefully Emaar or who ever owns the land forgets all about it and does the right thing and creates an arboretum for all marina residents to enjoy.

Many thanks.

HT

How about a Bonsai arboretum so no views are comprimised, even from ground level :)

Yeah, add some leprosy too.

^^ Why you hate so much the idea of greenery there. :bash:

^^ I guess it has something to do with see view?

Hey I'm all for greenery, we can't get enough of it.

I just didn't know what an aboretum was, and its against my religion to go look it up.

What's an arboretum? Sounds like a tropical disease you'd catch if you went fishing naked in Lake Malawi.

:lol:

Aboretum.
A landscaped space where trees, shrubs, and herbaceous plants are cultivated for scientific study, educational purposes, and to foster appreciation of plants.

Just what the Marina community needs in my humble opinion.

Hey I'm all for greenery, we can't get enough of it.

I just didn't know what an aboretum was, and its against my religion to go look it up.

No you're not. :ohno:





















:D

:lol:

Aboretum.
A landscaped space where trees, shrubs, and herbaceous plants are cultivated for scientific study, educational purposes, and to foster appreciation of plants.

Just what the Marina community needs in my humble opinion.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

I used to have a small "plantation area", or 'aboretum' if you like, in my basement back in the UK. I also used tell people it was for a "scientific study". Most ppl believed me, except the judge.

^^ I guess it has something to do with see view?

He has to worry about taller things, as far as his sea view is concearned :D

... plus the area under discussion is on the other side of the tower.

I am completely at peace with my Princess Tower view.

All my life, i've dreamt about waking up to the sight of a Princess, and in a funny way, God has finally answered my prayer. (well not quite, they've gotta build the thing first!:D)

I used to have a small "plantation area", or 'aboretum' if you like, in my basement back in the UK. I also used tell people it was for a "scientific study". Most ppl believed me, except the judge.

That's why one should buy the powerfull halogen bulbs on big department stores, and not on the corner neighbourhood shop where everyone knows you. :ohno:

I am completely at peace with my Princess Tower view.

All my life, i've dreamt about waking up to the sight of a Princess, and in a funny way, God has finally answered my prayer. (well not quite, they've gotta build the thing first!:D)

... and then procede with building the other thing where you are supposed to wake up in. :runaway:

^^ That grows approx 3 ft per year. Nearly as fast as the Torch ! :jk:

Can we ask Select Property to provide some of these on the Emaar plot while we wait? :lol:

http://www.stiknstein.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/05_aa_TreeHouse.jpg

It's actually one sixth of a dozen others. (that's 2 others).

whats the difference between Dubai select & select property?

^^ Dubai Select is now part of the Select Property Group as they have branched into selling property from multiple countries which the new name reflects, not just Dubai. Think the name Dubai Select is being phased out, not sure? Anyhow, contracts are with Torch Select in the UAE not Dubai Select. It appears that DS or SPG are acting as agents and managers of the lengthy payment plans etc.

whats the difference between Dubai select & select property?

I don't know....what is the difference between Dubai Select & Select Property........







..........sorry, I thought you were telling us a joke. :lol: :lol:

^^

One of them are a bunch of Buying Lastards......

I cant belive this , although if you look at the way the Dubai Select website has changed over the lasty year or it's not a suprise. Why the hell cant develppers just do what they are meant to do and build buildings rather than looking to cash in by building in other countries , under other names and whatever they want

I think they are mostly only estate agents for the other countries as the developments they mention can be bought from other companies also. They may apply their special lengthy payment plan financing options to some of them however.

Concrete is being poured for what is, I think, the floor of level 1 ... well half of it, anyway. Depends whether you view the ground level as the level the marina is on or the level the road behind is on.

Any Pics ? :)

^^ Imre's gonna be back this weekend.. so wait for another week or so

Any Pics ? :)

Seems the moderators prefer to wait for Imre than do something about the insults I received.

You are loosing this argument mate, people have apologised and it is time to move on.

We all get something out of SSC and when you have the chance to pay back / contribute something you should do without hesitation and despite all the insults in the world.

Now get some bloody photos posted...............please

He's never contibuted anything to the TT thread so I doubt he's going to start doing so now.

Can someone tell me how I upload photos?

He's never contibuted anything to the TT thread so I doubt he's going to start doing so now.

I believe I did in Dec/Jan when I was able to take pictures. If asking for insults to be removed and the moderators to do their job is too much then I'll not post here again.

Can someone tell me how I upload photos?

Go to this link - http://imageshack.us/

Click on the browse button. This will open up a window on your pc.

Navigate your files to find the one you want to upload.

Click on host it. Wait till it uploads, Scroll down the page.

Then copy the whole link in the box "Hotlink for forums (1)". Paste it into your post.


Quickly I am nnot handling this cold turkey to well. :(

I believe I did in Dec/Jan when I was able to take pictures. If asking for insults to be removed and the moderators to do their job is too much then I'll not post here again.

Won't help. I've said the same things as you on a different forum, but nothing happened. I walked away irritated and found out that people just didn't cared, other people took my place. Internet is an anonymous place so no one cares much about each other. You just have to live with the fact that there're always people who insult or being noobs, there's nothing to do about it. Moderators and admins are not bots and can't scan every post in every context. Try to ignore those who insult you as there are many others who are happy with, for example, your updates of the Infinity pond.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3982/p1000022fk5.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000022fk5.jpg)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3955/p1000001rk7.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000001rk7.jpg)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/371/p1000019kl5.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000019kl5.jpg)

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6396/p1000020wp1.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000020wp1.jpg)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6185/p1000023ml9.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000023ml9.jpg)

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1010/p1000024nw5.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000024nw5.jpg)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1896/p1000027ab9.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000027ab9.jpg)

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/139/p1000028yq7.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000028yq7.jpg)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1598/p1000029hb4.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000029hb4.jpg)

Joannides,
thanks for posting the pics.

If asking for insults to be removed and the moderators to do their job is too much then I'll not post here again.

Come on now, no need to act like a drama queen, it already went for so long.

Thanks Joannides,

Almost a third of the total job complete already then ? (309 / 1005)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3982/p1000022fk5.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000022fk5.jpg)

I don't know....what is the difference between Dubai Select & Select Property........







..........sorry, I thought you were telling us a joke. :lol: :lol:


sorry, was hoping for naz to use his wit on that.

& many thanks to hatetorch and imre for constantly posting really good photos without all the drama :okay:

Seems the moderators prefer to wait for Imre than do something about the insults I received.


Review the forums rules once if you haven't done so already... particularly point 5.

Thanks Joannides,

A much needed dose of Torch progress viewing.

That should satisfy my cravings until Imre returns from drinking beer

Thanks Joannides,
Great update in the absence of Imre.
I think another floor slab has been poured since you took your pictues.

Thanks Joannides,
Great update in the absence of Imre.
I think another floor slab has been poured since you took your pictues.

i took the majority of the pictures on Monday afternoon. i think Tractor implied that the floor slab was poured on Tuesday, so that would explain it.

Taken: 09 Oct 2007, 1640hr, GMT+4.
This morning the slab was poured.
http://i23.tinypic.com/2vwtt1t.jpg

that's interesting.. TT and Princess won't be directly lined up.. looks like Naz might get his sea view afterall

nice shot and good progress on the formwork too. The left crane has been lifted, so hopefully they'll work on the core soon :cheers:

Great picture HateTorch. What floor are you on?

Imagine the logistical nightmare if the plot beside TT was U/C or boarded up.

that's interesting.. TT and Princess won't be directly lined up.. looks like Naz might get his sea view afterall

I've been saying this all along, which is why i've always said i'll get a "part sea-view", which'll do for me, being the fair and accommodating kinda guy that I am. :D Also, if i'm lucky I may even get a lovely glimpse of the Trump Tower, as suggested by Malec, from between PT and LR. :D

I've been saying this all along, which is why i've always said i'll get a "part sea-view", which'll do for me, being the fair and accommodating kinda guy that I am. :D Also, if i'm lucky I may even get a lovely glimpse of the Trump Tower, as suggested by Malec, from between PT and LR. :D

^^ What's your apartment number Naz?

If I told you that, i'd have to kill you. But I will tell you, I'm 16 floors above ground, facing the Princess.

Here's DS other website which is worth a look:

http://www.select-group.ae/

They have their own glass making company now Glass Select Industries in RAK so I don't think there'll be a shortage of materials for windows in their developments !!! Also worth Googleing the owner Rahail Aslam, he's worth over £100m, so I doubt DS have any funding problems. :cheers:



From the website:

Select Glass Industries
Select Glass Industries is the group’s first industrial venture along with its esteemed joint venture partners that include highly experienced glass industry professionals from the UK and strategic partner Dubai Civil Engineering.

Select Glass Industries is a state of the art glass processing factory, being set up at the RAK Industrial Zone at Al Jazeera Al Hamra at a total cost of AED 88,000,000 and will have an annual supply of 30,000 tons. The plant will employ 180 staff. The primary objective of the plant is to support the regional construction industry by supplying glass products for the architectural segment. Materials to be used by the factory will be sourced locally and from Europe.

The most advanced robotic glass processing technology has been ordered from leading suppliers in Europe. Due to start production by first quarter of 2007, the production facility will manufacture a range of flat glass products like standard and high performance insulated glass units, spandrel panels, tempered safety glass, balustrades, safety glass for canopies and balconies, glass doors, shop fronts, decorative wall cladding and glass furniture to name a few.

In view of the unprecedented surge in construction activity across the Gulf and the extensive demand for glass emanating from this surge, the order book for the glass unit is already full at a pre launch stage – with solid expectations of this turning into yet another profitable venture for Select Group.

^^ Are you back on the payroll again Morris?

Afraid not Mackie..............but good news is my industrial tribunal hearing is comming up soon so I'm hoping to be awarded a large unfair dismissal compensation payment. :lol:

^^ Are you back on the payroll again Morris?

He's trying to goad Tractor into making the fastest comeback in history...

why is good news bad news for some?????

the creditability of the company is always in question, for goodness sake, they are a company that wants to do business and make a profit, so effing what.


with all sceptics out there, we have a Morris, so what.

sorry, was hoping for naz to use his wit on that.

& many thanks to hatetorch and imre for constantly posting really good photos without all the drama :okay:

naz, come on, whats the difference between DS & SB don't chicken out now.

If I told you that, i'd have to kill you. But I will tell you, I'm 16 floors above ground, facing the Princess.

^^ Okay so now I am scared shitless. But at least tell me which corner? Or are you in one of the middle ones? Just trying to figure out your view. Then you can kill me.

I have a sea-facing apt, and its not a corner one.

naz, come on, whats the difference between DS & SB don't chicken out now.

OK, I really don't know what you want me to do here? : I don't do comedy under duress. :D

^^ Under duress or durex it doesn't matter, just answer the damn question: What's the difference between DS & BS?

^^ Under duress or durex it doesn't matter, just answer the damn question: What's the difference between DS & BS?

is this a cryptic question as it keeps on changing??? The difference between DS & SP, the difference between DS and SB and now the difference between DS and BS - with every post, it seems to change:nuts:

it seems this thread has just got to keep on rolling, with (constructive) or without (pointless BS... abt DS :D) Imre's photos

is this a cryptic question as it keeps on changing??? The difference between DS & SP, the difference between DS and SB and now the difference between DS and BS - with every post, it seems to change:nuts:


for the last time of asking, whats the difference between SD & SP

^^ Why is it an issue. The major difference is how they are spelt :colgate: . And the other being one sells property in a area of the World called Dubai and the other sells property in other parts of the world too.

Here's DS other website which is worth a look:

http://www.select-group.ae/

They have their own glass making company now Glass Select Industries in RAK so I don't think there'll be a shortage of materials for windows in their developments !!! Also worth Googleing the owner Rahail Aslam, he's worth over £100m, so I doubt DS have any funding problems. :cheers:



From the website:

Select Glass Industries
Select Glass Industries is the group’s first industrial venture along with its esteemed joint venture partners that include highly experienced glass industry professionals from the UK and strategic partner Dubai Civil Engineering.

Select Glass Industries is a state of the art glass processing factory, being set up at the RAK Industrial Zone at Al Jazeera Al Hamra at a total cost of AED 88,000,000 and will have an annual supply of 30,000 tons. The plant will employ 180 staff. The primary objective of the plant is to support the regional construction industry by supplying glass products for the architectural segment. Materials to be used by the factory will be sourced locally and from Europe.

The most advanced robotic glass processing technology has been ordered from leading suppliers in Europe. Due to start production by first quarter of 2007, the production facility will manufacture a range of flat glass products like standard and high performance insulated glass units, spandrel panels, tempered safety glass, balustrades, safety glass for canopies and balconies, glass doors, shop fronts, decorative wall cladding and glass furniture to name a few.

In view of the unprecedented surge in construction activity across the Gulf and the extensive demand for glass emanating from this surge, the order book for the glass unit is already full at a pre launch stage – with solid expectations of this turning into yet another profitable venture for Select Group.


Hey Morris, ive been following these threads for some time now. Had a look at the www.select-group.ae. If you go to the bay central section of the website and read on "The West and Central Towers are residential while the East Tower is designed to be a five star hotel" "Proud of its alliance with an Exclusive top-tier international Hotel operator, a letter of intent was signed in September 2006. Negotiations for finalization of the hotel management agreement are currently in progress with a targeted signature date by February 2007"

Now correct me if im wrong but when i was sold my apartment in the west tower i was told that the central tower was to be the hotel (ring any bells?). If you look at the date they targeted the signature for the hotel (Feb 07) and compare with the date of press release and then take into concideration how old this information could be it clearly shows DS knew all along and it was in there full intention to bull sh*t people about the configuaration of the towers! Sneaky b@st@rds. This is obviously a company that always knows more than it is willing to say.

Hey Morris, ive been following these threads for some time now. Had a look at the www.select-group.ae. If you go to the bay central section of the website and read on "The West and Central Towers are residential while the East Tower is designed to be a five star hotel" "Proud of its alliance with an Exclusive top-tier international Hotel operator, a letter of intent was signed in September 2006. Negotiations for finalization of the hotel management agreement are currently in progress with a targeted signature date by February 2007"

Now correct me if im wrong but when i was sold my apartment in the west tower i was told that the central tower was to be the hotel (ring any bells?). If you look at the date they targeted the signature for the hotel (Feb 07) and compare with the date of press release and then take into concideration how old this information could be it clearly shows DS knew all along and it was in there full intention to bull sh*t people about the configuaration of the towers! Sneaky b@st@rds. This is obviously a company that always knows more than it is willing to say.

Yes I agree with you.

Not neccessarily.

It is logical to suggest that Marriot Group decided at the end that having a 50+ storey tower hotel in the Marina was not in their best interest. I even think that they are the reason why the east and west towers were shortenned.

Of course only DS know what really happened.

I find it difficult to believe that the hotel changed their minds at the 11th hour. More likely they wanted the East Tower all along. Just suppose this was the case, it would have been very difficult indeed for DS to start marketing the West Tower on the basis that the Central Tower would be launched a few months later. Most investors would just simply not have bought in WT knowing a better tower was going to be available. DS would not have been able to get the WT sales off the ground. So much better to say it's the East Tower that will be launched next, investors would pile into WT, add a little sales pitch about the ET prices rising 10% to help WT sales on the way. When WT almost sold, hey presto.........say change of mind by hotel and we're now selling CT. Brilliant stuff.........it must have been like this they couldn't have done it any other way.

However I'm not really bothered at all, honestly. I'm happy with my WT purchase I personally wouldn't have bought in CT as prices are a fair bit higher and I have a limited budget - looking for rental income so my yield would be lower. Not much between them really but.....WT better for rent. :banana: CT may be better for capital growth :banana:

There's been a lot of criticism of DS, me included at times, but what you really need in a developer is one that can sell units. No use buying into a half baked development which is only going to be half sold and the success of the tower is at risk. You need a developer who can SELL, SELL, SELL and DS are top of the Premier League in this regard. There's nobody to touch them !! Whether they stretch the truth a bit is immaterial at the end of the day. Yes it pisses some people off but who cares bottom line is SALES.

probably not so sinister but a matter of DS and the hotel chain to come to terms with a suitable agreement, I have been told the hotel is only renting the East tower on a 25 year lease so not actually buying it....

Of course only DS know what really happened.

I find it difficult to believe that the hotel changed their minds at the 11th hour. More likely they wanted the East Tower all along. Just suppose this was the case, it would have been very difficult indeed for DS to start marketing the West Tower on the basis that the Central Tower would be launched a few months later. Most investors would just simply not have bought in WT knowing a better tower was going to be available. DS would not have been able to get the WT sales off the ground. So much better to say it's the East Tower that will be launched next, investors would pile into WT, add a little sales pitch about the ET prices rising 10% to help WT sales on the way. When WT almost sold, hey presto.........say change of mind by hotel and we're now selling CT. Brilliant stuff.........it must have been like this they couldn't have done it any other way.

However I'm not really bothered at all, honestly. I'm happy with my WT purchase I personally wouldn't have bought in CT as prices are a fair bit higher and I have a limited budget - looking for rental income so my yield would be lower. Not much between them really but.....WT better for rent. :banana: CT may be better for capital growth :banana:

There's been a lot of criticism of DS, me included at times, but what you really need in a developer is one that can sell units. No use buying into a half baked development which is only going to be half sold and the success of the tower is at risk. You need a developer who can SELL, SELL, SELL and DS are top of the Premier League in this regard. There's nobody to touch them !! Whether they stretch the truth a bit is immaterial at the end of the day. Yes it pisses some people off but who cares bottom line is SALES.

WT buyers must be sightly upset, the views from CT i imagine will be much sort-after, but r the WT buyer going to receive the keys before CT ? if so the extra rent must be the silver lining.

as for the sell, sell, sell, i agree fully, the more cash rich they are, hopefully, the safer our investment.

WT buyers must be sightly upset, the views from CT i imagine will be much sort-after, but r the WT buyer going to receive the keys before CT ? if so the extra rent must be the silver lining.

as for the sell, sell, sell, i agree fully, the more cash rich they are, hopefully, the safer our investment.

DS have told me all towers will be handed over at the same time.

Have I stumbled onto the Bay Central thread or am I going through a time warp?

What on earth has all this Bay Central crap got to do with the torch, take it elsewhere.

Unfortunately post No. 414 had a trojan virus in it which resets the graphics card on your PC - so the TT thread is now showing as the BC thread. The IT guys at SSC are busy working on it and a fix will be available which you will need to download from The Point thread later today.

What on earth has all this Bay Central crap got to do with the torch, take it elsewhere.
I thought Bay Central is from the same developper.

edit: ow I see, a virus caused it.

What on earth has all this Bay Central crap got to do with the torch, take it elsewhere.

dear big potato, all this is in a way related to the construction of our beloved torch. the same developers of both projects , we r not talking of Emaar with hundreds of sites, we're just trying to assess/build up a picture of the company so to benefit each investor/buyer.

anyway the conclusion is: they r conservative with the truth:)

Can someone change the title to Bay Central as some people are too lazy to go to the correct thread :bash: what is it with this thread it attracts all the crap on the forum, just look at MAG thread its to the point and constructive information....

Can someone change the title to Bay Central as some people are too lazy to go to the correct thread :bash: what is it with this thread it attracts all the crap on the forum, just look at MAG thread its to the point and constructive information....

dont worry, be happy :) i heard that somewhere b4

Morris, how does the official handover time of BC compare to that of the torch & have they altered it like TT?

Gorilla, that was a bit harsh.

I have been thinking about the possibility of what the views will be like from the west facing corner of the Torch on the higher floors 70+.

I have calculated that it may in fact be possible to have a view of the sun setting on the horizon looking out to sea over the top of Emirates serviced apps and Emirates Crown. This is subject to the hights of what is built on Marina promenade. This would offer a fantastic view if my calculations are right.

This is where i need your help Malec. I remember reading somewhere on the various Torch threads that have now been laid to rest that you have the software to offer 3d renders of views from units.

In my pic below i have superimposed your tallest block tower section onto google earth and aligned them to within 1-2 degrees.

The red lines are the lines of visability that should be available from the west corner balconies + windows of the 3 beds. I think the Torch units higher than floor 70 should overlook the roof tops of EMSA & EC.

Can you show a potential view from a Torch Unit 70floor + looking West to the sunset if this is possible.

Your help would be appreciated.


http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/165/11vx7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

First of all, your position of the Torch is wrong. It should be more to the right.

..

DS have told me all towers will be handed over at the same time.

^^ serious ...dubaidot or select they are:jk:

^^ serious ...dubaidot or select they are:jk:

I am posting BC stuff in the BC thread where it belongs................please see me over there.

I'll try and do this tomorrow morning, also I'll try fix the position.

Edit, might as well post this now.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9404/65685421ci6.jpg

malec, i look forward to your next post and to my possible views.

cant wait, many thanks in advance.

Malec, good job, and thank you.

I reckon the sun should meet the horizon just above the spike on Emirates Serviced apps & Spa.

This will make a beatifull view and great selling point. (i hope). :)

Just the forward facing Marina View to worry about now. Lets hope that gets clarified at Cityscape this week.

malec, i look forward to your next post and to my possible views.

cant wait, many thanks in advance.

Tell me where your apartment is and I'll do it.

is their a possibility that the site next to the torch which is unknown (old emaar sales site) is it possible for the eternity tower to be placed here? the eternity tower is by dos architects.

is their a possibility that the site next to the torch which is unknown (old emaar sales site) is it possible for the eternity tower to be placed here? the eternity tower is by dos architects.

Can I politely ask that you only post this stuff only once, as you have already done in the Emaar Unknown Plot thread - we don't want this in the TT thread which is why we set up a special thread for it. Thanks.

Tell me where your apartment is and I'll do it.

unit type 05 (1bed), 70+floor.
thank you very much

^^ That doesn't tell me much other than it's above the 70th floor. Which side of the tower is it on.

Date Taken: 15-Oct-2007, 0900hr, GMT+4

http://i20.tinypic.com/25z5uuo.jpg

http://www.selectproperty.com/regions/dubai/the-torch/resources/pdf/Floors_66-73.pdf

Hatetorch the best? :yes:

why didn't DS set TT core to the farthest right, surly that would give most sea facing appartements a much improved seaviwe looking at the gap created by the side road. that would have left the pool on the left with incredible day & night scenery be it toward the marina-walk or (if no big structure is erected) down the marina it self.

15/Oct/2007

The Torch

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2862/imresolt30ak4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2425/imresolt31qj7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/713/imresolt32fi2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Imre, great photos.

another advantage to all marina facing apartment, if core was to the farthest right, is they would have a reasonable gap between the TT balconies and any future developments on the Emaar plot.

Thanks for the pictures Imre & HateTorch :cheers:
Is it me, or are they really working a bit faster than before?

no they've actually slowed down considerably.

really? hmm they've installed some formwork and even poured some collumns the last five days. The last time they did that it took longer I thought. Anyway it's still way to slow :)

Hatetorch the best? :yes:

why didn't DS set TT core to the farthest right, surly that would give most sea facing appartements a much improved seaviwe looking at the gap created by the side road. that would have left the pool on the left with incredible day & night scenery be it toward the marina-walk or (if no big structure is erected) down the marina it self.

no problem, we'll shift it this weekend.
how about the palm? would 10 metres to the left improve your view of it?
let me know?:nuts:

Dont forget guys its been Ramadan and then 3 days for Eid.

I think work should spead up now that Ramadan is over.

well the pic was taken on a Monday, day time, no Ramdan, no Summer month, and only a handful of workers visiable, so what are they waiting for again to speed up ......!!

I emailed Dubai Select last week regarding construction progress being slow, here is the response I received:-

"In response to your construction query, I can assure you that there is a lot of activity and many workers on site. There are up to 400 workers on site at times and the construction is 24 hours. Presently, due to the stage that construction is at, many of the workers are within the basement levels and within the actual core structure itself so, naturally, may not be visible from outside the site. Also, throughout Ramadan, construction in Dubai as a whole does slow down slightly, however, I can assure you that with this religious festival coming to an end, construction will proceed at its usual high pace."

Welcome back Imre and thanks for the update. Hope you had a few beers whilst away :cheers:

I guess it's hard to see exactly what the workers are doing if they are working in the basements etc.

I think once the tower itself starts, and the podium is complete we can start to judge progress more efficiently.

Yes if that is true then we will wait to the basement is done then we should see all 400 workers visible again. Somehow I doubt it but we have to take their word for it. :toilet:

400 man, yeah right :lol:
why do you need 400 man to pour some concrete and install some rebar and pipes, are 300 of them sleeping in the basement or what. 400 man for 4 basement levels and a core would be unpractical.

Well they did say "UP to 400 workers" and only "at times". So this could be read as 3 workers sometimes. In other words the reply has no use at all. :bash:

View from a high floor facing the marina:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6605/87956673kc9.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=87956673kc9.jpg)

Well they did say "UP to 400 workers" and only "at times". So this could be read as 3 workers sometimes. In other words the reply has no use at all. :bash:

:hilarious

View from a high floor facing the marina:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6605/87956673kc9.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=87956673kc9.jpg)

thank you malec
i owe you big time

Hate Torch, I understand your pics to be shot from MH.

Do you take them from a common area or one of your windows ?

If the later roughly what floor are you on ?

I'm not trying to line you up for a burglary, I just wandered how high you are to get that kind of perspective of TT. Honest :shifty:

no problem, we'll shift it this weekend.
how about the palm? would 10 metres to the left improve your view of it?
let me know?:nuts:



:lol:

Entrance to the new mall / shopping arcade being right behind the Torch should add some value.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1066/imresolt071ci0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6549/imresolt082ma3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now we just need to know what will be in front !

Why not:

http://i22.tinypic.com/htv34i.jpg

(14/10/2007)

^^Why not what ?

^^ Why not posting a pic from the 14th, when Imre already posted updates from 15th, or a day later.

^^Yes why not indeed :cheers:

It looks like Morris might end up with the best views, Side Sea View and a roof garden:)

Are Dubai Select/Select Property exhibiting at CityScape ?

no

Thats pretty poor - unless they dont have anything to sell in any of their developments.

Why is them not being at Cityscape poor? :dunno:

This is the upside down world of Dubai remember, where a company (mentioning no names that rhyme with SHAMAC) that spends the GDP of an Eastern European country on advertising and have the decency, honesty and integrity of, er, an Eastern European dictator (Sorry guys!!!) - i.e having no bearing on their performance, then it doesn't unerve me one bit that DS were not at Cityscape (especially given that the reason most likely will have been that they do not have much left to sell, unlike SHAMAC), in fact it makes me feel better, that they're not pissing away good money on essentially a show that should have been called "2006-revisited".

^^ Agree no point in wasting good money unless your launching or selling in a recently launched project otherwise most other projects months old will have enough coverage to get natural sales.

And we know Torch has sold well along with there other two projects where as SHAMAC need to be there to tell people it's 90% sold buy today otherwise you'll miss out on this once in a life time opprotunity of listening to the crap comming out of my sales mouth........LOL i'm sound like NAZ

Why is them not being at Cityscape poor? :dunno:

This is the upside down world of Dubai remember, where a company (mentioning no names that rhyme with SHAMAC) that spends the GDP of an Eastern European country on advertising and have the decency, honesty and integrity of, er, an Eastern European dictator (Sorry guys!!!) - i.e having no bearing on their performance, then it doesn't unerve me one bit that DS were not at Cityscape (especially given that the reason most likely will have been that they do not have much left to sell, unlike SHAMAC), in fact it makes me feel better, that they're not pissing away good money on essentially a show that should have been called "2006-revisited".

I did NAZ that unless they have nothing left to sell :)

Yes, arfie, i know which is why i acknowledged what you rightly said. :)

18/October/2007

Dubai Marina (Marina Pinnacle, MAG, The Torch etc...)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/246/imresolt079yk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

photo Magnifique

any updates?

^^ :lol: :lol:

Krazy, I told you not to give your password out to Megatower :lol:

^^ He has "moved" to Singapore now. :lol:

Sorry everyone, I was trying to load an image and haveing a test run, but it shpuld have been on another thread.

Alan

^^ Nice car but you forgot to post it in the spam thread instead of the Torch thread.

LOL,, I love spam and chips...... it was the exotic car thread... I was following high times instructions, but wanted the larger image of course instead of the thumbnail, always looking for the big one eh.

Alan

Date: 19-Oct-2007

http://i24.tinypic.com/j6oo4y.jpg

Hatetorch the best? :yes:

why didn't DS set TT core to the farthest right, surly that would give most sea facing appartements a much improved seaviwe looking at the gap created by the side road. that would have left the pool on the left with incredible day & night scenery be it toward the marina-walk or (if no big structure is erected) down the marina it self.

Well at least we can all watch the Atlantis fireworks displays from the pool deck :D

Thanks HateTorch. Slowly but surely she's growing. The installation of form work on the right side went pretty quick compared to normal TT speed. :)

Well at least we can all watch the Atlantis fireworks displays from the pool deck :D



& the day that arrives, first round of drinks are all on me :cheers:

^^ I wrotte that down and even made a screen-shot of it and printed it to keep as evidence. :yes:

we're talking soft drinks right! :shifty:

Have you bought in the Torch then AltinD :D

Thanks HateTorch. Slowly but surely she's growing. The installation of form work on the right side went pretty quick compared to normal TT speed. :)

Yeah, those three guys building TT have defintitely speeded up a bit. What I can't understand is why they are so camera shy ?? Soon as somebody gets a camera out they're off like a shot.

Reminds me of that children's programme in the UK in the 70's The Wombles - soon as a human was approaching the little furry creatures would run and hide. :lol:

BTW I have another theory - the Torch may actually be building itself. :nuts:

Date: 20-Oct-2007, 1235hr, GMT+4

http://i20.tinypic.com/2a5naz4.jpg