My opinion is that the model only is crappy, the renders look nice.

think so too.
now the question is how the final tower will look like ;)

I feel that the construction will be done in a nice way, however I am not sure about the finishings, alot of properties ie. the springs, meadows, lakes, were constructed very nicely, however the finishings and followup fixups were definately not up to par... but, i believe torch developer will finish off nicely, we will have to see at the final product.

when does construction start?

somebody said in sept if i am not wrong...

well I think you put your finger on it! it depends how you look it at, so difficult to say in one word I don't like this tower, unless you refer to just the way it looks from outside.

Take Ocean heights which I think majority of us like, but have you seen those weird floor layout! or the price per sq/ft.

I was trying to find out why people like certain towers so I guess we should say tower X because of Y.

I personally like Ocean Heights look, Marine Terrace location, Marinescape floor plan and Park Islands grounds!!

And I dont't like any of Diamonds at all, I take it Juiced was being sarcastic ^ :)


Marina Phase 1 would look nice if they didn't use that stained-looking concrete.

PaulTaylor said groundwork would start in July - has it? Boards up yet?

no boards yet, when i first got here, they said about 6 weeks, im estimating by august / september.

now maybe, there are boards, however last 2 weeks no boards.

No boards as of yet I was on the site yesterday checking out Marina Heights apt and there was no sign up for TORCH.

Still no signs of progress on The Torch?

Has anyone been down there lately?

Or does anyone have any photos of the site?

Sorry for all the questions!! Any help or info would be appreciated.

Yeap no sign yet of the Torch. Its a plot with no action yet. I do believe however that a sign will be up soon and construction to start.

construction will start sept.

Thanks arfie and flo!

I take it this will impact on the completion date? I'm thinking if it was meant to start in July it's already 2 months behind before it's even started!!

it was never supposed to start in july was it?

Information I had was construction to start in July 2005, completion End 2007 with a further 6 months provision for any delays.

When I spoke to the sales agents involved, they said construction had already started??

Did you have any dates for construction starting?

paultaylorworld mentioned sept i guess.
btw where is he? :D lol
just search the thread i am not sure sorry

Looking forward when it starts

Some more info...

Boards to be up in the next few days.

Construction to start in 2-3 weeks. :)

serious or not serious?
i hope the info is correct!

Yes correct construction starts end of this month I got told by Dubai Select today.

thats great news. somebody should check the site in a few weeks.

yep good to get this one started

Great tower, i can't wait to see this one rise.

Could any one help me please?

I am considering buying a 2 bed in the Torch, I am new to Dubai, could any one advice on the location, views, expected rental income etc. Thank you

there are loads of details on this thread if you go back to the start.

I think most of your questions have been covered already.

most (if not all) of the good ones with views into the marina are sold

go for trident grand residence.

Trident Grand Residence 1 bed room price is 1.2 to 1.5 million UAD Iam told you can,t get them, all sold out. 2 beds at the Torch at the Marina high floor is 1.2 million UAE.The good thing about the Trident is that you are buying in a 5 stars hotel!

Do you think the torch is still worth investing in since all marina facing are sold out?
Do you think view affects rental yield ?

yield = (annual rental / market price) * 100

Yield must be more than 8% to be interesting. Preferably 10%+ if you want good capital gain also

Trident Grand is good but finance is difficult and believe all 1 and 2 bed are sold out

There are still some Marina Direct facing apts left I believe. Also the 04 apartments wont be that bad either they will give a good marina from the balcony.

Im not sure how if view will effect rential yields but if you have a good view it will be easier to rent for sure. I think there will be a slight difference in rent for those with better views.

We should have a better idea when Marina Heights is complete end of this year and what the rental for those will be.

I would forget about doing figures on future rental yield on "off plan" towers at the moment. Most will not be finished for 2-3 years and then the whole rental situation will go crazy, as in rollercoaster.
If you are buying now off plans, look to sell at or before completion. Then give it a year or so, let the rental market settle and then do your sums again. It is quite possible that finished luxury apartments in Dubai will be selling for LESS than their current price in 3 years time.
If the new GCC currency comes under pressure they will be forced to raise interest rates to protect it and a lot of local buyers will off load property as repayments will be huge. On the other hand if they don't protect it and the new currency falls after launch (as the euro did) then owners with foreign mortages will be under pressure to meet repayements with GCC rental income, so THEY will off load property in Dubai. Who know what will happen, but one thing is for sure, nervous owners need not apply.

^having said all that, I have a No6 in the Torch..he..he

Did'nt you buy 2 No.6's in the Torch John?
You must be secretly confident that the Torch is a good investment.
How much do you see the prices rising on completion?

been here today
absolutely nothing yet, except dust and sand :(

Piling is supposed to start in 3 weeks time

There are a lot of people here think 06 has a better view than 05, I just returned from Dubai and saw the plot and I believe 05 is better because you can get both marina and sea views but with 06 you have no chance seeing the sea.

I agree 05 will have a better view and a possible chance of seeing the sea in between the towers in front line.

I don't think there are any 05/06 2 beds left?!

I thought 05 would give a better than 06 but when I was in Dubai 2 weeks ago at the plot having checked it all out to be honest there is going to be no difference the marina view from both 05 and 06 will be good.

Dubai-Steve: No, I only have one in this tower
arfie: have a look at this picture of the floor plans. Think of the orientation of the apartment rather than the view. There is very little difference between the view of no 5's and no 6's however the orientation of the 5's is twords the Al marsa Tower and Emirates crown while the orientation of the 6's is into the open space of the marina. So 6's will have a slightly more spacious feel to them than 5's and this could well make the difference on a sale or rental, especially when prospective buyers/renters will have a big choice of Torch apartments to choose from. http://tinypic.com/akvbsg.jpg

I dont think it be any different what so ever to be honest. both 05 and 06 will be similar. Only thing is I feel on the 05 is you will get a partial sea view also. Anyway both apartments are great lets just hope the finish is of a high quality standard.

By the way the flat numbers have changed now in the latest plans available!

8 ----> 6
7 ----> 5

There are no Orientation sign on the map to specift the N/W/S/E

Will you be able to see the sea from the balcony of the marina facing 06 apartments ?

Yeap you will because the balcony of 07 is direct SEA Facing. So if you look towards the right from 06 you'll get to see partial sea view.

Both 05 and 06 will but the Marina View will be GREAT!

From this thread, it appears that you should probably only bank upon a Marina View from 05 and 06.....as new hotel is going in on the corner (Marina water side) next to Al Marsa....

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=226637

Yes but there is gaps between each building. The Marina is not congested as the pictures suggest.

Having come accross this forum in the course of analysing the ever changing presence of this development on the Web, I am posting on behalf of Dubai Select in the UK which is marketing The Torch exclusively.

The reason for the discontinuation of Paul Taylor's comments earlier in thie thread is that Paul has now completed his 2 year tenure building the presence and reputation of Dubai Select through the sales and marketing of various premier developments around Dubai. Whilst he has done a fantasitc job in this time we wish him similar success in his new 'Launchpad' venture.

Where possible we shall continue to monitor this site which seems to be well-repsected and where appropriate we will try and respond to any queries or misrepresentations made through it, although I acknowledge and appreciate that it is a neutral discussion space and not a channel to flaunt product.
It goes without saying that the best way to find out any news about this project is to contact us directly - our contact details can be found on our own Website - and a member of our team will be happy to answer any questions or supply any assets in relation to any aspect of this development.

At the time of posting interest in The Torch continues to build from a wide range of sources and territories, although availability is obviously ever-decreasing.
Our sales and marketing cycle is moving as predicted, with over 350 units out of 504 now sold and contracts issued.

We look forward to hearing from any of you at any time.
Giles Beswick
Dubai Select

this is what i expect from a serious real estate seller.
when does construction start?

:bash: Has anyone who has bought in the torch found that the contract is very vague indeed as far as the buyer is concerned. No details as to exactly what you are buying/positioning or of any of the facilities!!!!! Please help-I have bought off plan before in other countries and have never seen a contract quite so lacking in detail.

Hawki wrote regarding The Torch off plan purchase contract
No details as to exactly what you are buying/positioning or of any of the facilities!!!!! Please help-I have bought off plan before in other countries and have never seen a contract quite so lacking in detail.

My question goes a bit further, has anybody in any new development received a 'clear & concise' contract, when purchasing 'off plan' in Dubai :dunno:

The contract I received on my property in Goldcrest Views 1 was pretty detailed and thorough.

as well the MS contract.

I did see a DAMAC contract last year, this was a very impressive document. It was bound with a glossy cover & probably over 30 pages of content. The content also looked very detailed & thorough, but I supose only DAMAC buyers can validate the value & accuracy of this.

I've seen the contract and agree that is not comprehensive! However doesn't matter how detailed it is since the one single clause which allows the developers to change the plan as required makes the whole thing a bit invalid.

I guess this is the downside of buying off-plan!!!

the MS contract is about 25 pages...
it is , for dubai standarts, pretty detailed.

Does anyone know what the spec is for communal parts of The Torch?

ie. how many pools will there be, are they indoor or outdoor etc.

None of this info is in the contracts.

where is paultaylorworld...?

Does anyone know what the spec is for communal parts of The Torch?

ie. how many pools will there be, are they indoor or outdoor etc.

None of this info is in the contracts.
Thast my point-there is no spec. Not even for your appartment-when I questioned this I was sent a copy of the broucher!!! The plans should be in the contract. I;m getting a little concerned now

your contract should have included a floor plan for your apartment and in fact for the entire floor you are on. If not go back and make sure its included specifying the total area sq/meter

As for the pools, I understand there is no indoor pool/sauna/jaccuzi, but there are two outdoor pools on the sun deck (fifth Floor) and a gym as seen on the model. The contract does not mention this, so I guess that could also disappear!

hmmh, I hope that there has been at least somekinds of specs and details in the contract, otherwise it's possible that you have been bought an actual torch for half a million :D

LOL nice one.
but its typical dubai, you might experience that in almost every development.
i am sure a lot of people will be disappointed finally but not all.

QUESTION TO DUBAI SELECT
There is no mention of the common facilities to be provided in the contract. ie. How many swimming pools, indoor or outdoor, sauna, gyms, shops, restaurants etc.

RESPONSE FROM DUBAI SELECT
Whilst the contract for your unit doesn’t describe facilities on the leisure deck in detail, I can confirm that there is an outdoor adult pool and children’s pool and inside there is a full gym, aerobics hall, steam rooms and Jacuzzis, whilst there are a number of commercial units in the development the occupiers of these have not yet been confirmed.

It goes without saying that there will be numerous restaurant bars within the building and the wider development offering food and beverage menus to suit a wide range of tastes and occasions.

yeah and whats your problem? do you have restaurants for all range of tastes confirmed in your MH contract?

No problem - just updating everyone.

The torch contract is 10 x better than Marina Heights. That was only a few pages :) no mention of any facilities. I guess it is normal in Dubai.

it is though the MS features almost everything.

Well trident are a very big, experienced company, so I would expect that for MS.
Would have bought there if I could have got a mortgage.
Torch is interesting because no mortgage is required, 15 year lengthy payment plan instead @ 7%

when does the ground work start? there is still no activity on the plot.

Should have already started - but obviously running behind like almost everyone

unlikely to start before they get the contacts back in and get paid for the first 10%. However the first installment is due now so would expect activity soon!

If nothing happens by mid Sept, a good sign they haven't sold enough units, similar situation to Ocean Heights.

Lets hope it starts soon.

Well they've sold 75% of the tower already. Construction should start anytime soon especially if they expect to complete it by the end of 2007.

could anyone from dubaiselect tell us why paultaylorworld left the company at this crucial time?

Regarding construction - official answer is Ground works starts in September.

So I image this will start in a few weeks as soon as the first 10% is paid by most.

Then my guess is construction wil not start until the next 20% is paid which is due beginning of December, so mid to end of december would be a good guess as to construction start date.

If this is the case, what would be the earliest completion date possible taking into consideration the number of floors and the average construction rate in Dubai?


Contract says developer endeavours to complete by 30 June 2008 but is allowed another 6 months before penalties. So if on the lengthy payment plan you need to budget to make payments up until Jan 2009 before expecting rent.

Paul Taylor left couple of months back from Dubai Select I believe.

Well Dubai Select still claim the project will be complete at the end of 2007. Jan 2009 is way too late.

end 2007 never. they need half a year for ground work at least, and easily 1,5 year for floors + half a year for exterior/interior/roof.
not before 2008!

So the date on the contract - "endeavours to complete by 30 June 2008" is more realistic.

But end of 2007 sounds like over enthusiastic sales talk from our old friend PaulTaylorWorld.

I would say you need to budget at least 9 quarterly payments ontop of 30% deposit before making any income.

eg. On a £190k apartment, you need

30% deposit = £57k
9 quarterly payments = £32k

Total = £89k

Almost 47% of original purchase price over 2 years.

Then rest pays for itself and maybe makes an adiitonal small income.

But 15 years from today you have a good pension and a beautiful apartment with an amazing view worth a fortune in a tax free environment. Probaby for most they can pay it of in 10 years or less with an early payment if you save the extra income.

However, if you can get a Dubai home builder mortgage then it may be wise to buy something like the Trident Grand, because you only need to pay 70% down then nothing till completion. But this is very difficult for the typical UK home owner with big mortgage as you wont have enough income left for the banks lending ratio calculations, even though you would be able to afford it since the rent would easily cover the mortgage.

I know of a big holiday firm based in the uk and dubai has purchased some apartments in the Princess Tower and I believe in the Torch also and they feel they will get around £800-£1000 week rent through holiday lets.

That sounds great - but I am sure they would charge a huge percentage for management if you were to give the apartment to them to rent on holiday lets. Maybe 30% or 40% ? So that would leave you with £400 or so per week, which at 70% occupancy would give you around £20k per year net. Still, thats plenty to pay the 15 year mortgage scheme in around 10 years.

they won't charge much to rent it for you , we asked for that being done with out italian home and they charge 7 % or sth.

A question to arife. do you work for the Torch and do you sell their appartments or any in the Princess Tower? I don,t beleive anyone any where in the marina will be able to get this sort of rent in 4 years when there is thousands of complete vacant Towers, where are the tenants and toursists are going to come from? I think we will all struggle to let our appartments, wait and see!

Steve, I've talked to a company who want 25% of the gross rental figure. I haven't checked with any others, so I don't know if that's the usual fee...

I agree with dubaifirst you guys are going to struggle if your finance is so tightly dependent on rental income. Dubai Marina Rental market in 3-4 years time is a totally different ball game. Be careful!

well you have to see both sides, when Dubai Marina is finished it will be the best place in dubai, and not everybody is going to rent his apt, so there might still be demand.
on the other side , right , there is the danger of oversupply.

Yes agree renting in Dubai Marina right at this moment in time will not be easy with alot of construction working going around especially the JBR stuff. However once all complete and with more tourists coming into Dubai I believe the best apts will be easy to rent out.

re:- me working for the Torch nope I dont. I just act as a property consultant for dubai as a hobby I deal with most developments and advise people if they have any queries.

Steve, I've talked to a company who want 25% of the gross rental figure. I haven't checked with any others, so I don't know if that's the usual fee...

Seabee, is that 25% for management of holiday lets? ie. 1 or 2 week rentals . Does that include cleaning and swap over?

If looking at long term lets, then that is too much, you can get fees around 10% only.

I agree with dubaifirst you guys are going to struggle if your finance is so tightly dependent on rental income. Dubai Marina Rental market in 3-4 years time is a totally different ball game. Be careful!

Well as long as you can get £16k per annum net for a 2 bed in the torch then all the costs are covered for buying.

I think this is achievable for a torch apartment with a good marina facing view.

In fact some agents are currently offering £16k per annum guaranteed for long term lets of 2 bed marina apartments.

The developer still believes they can achieve completion by end of 2007 spoke to them this morning. Would be incredible if they did.

but they won't.

The Torch is a tower that needs to be extinguished (poor joke)

same as in the MS thread.

The developer still believes they can achieve completion by end of 2007 spoke to them this morning. Would be incredible if they did.

maybe this article will persuade you!

http://www.ameinfo.com/66880.html

If you budget for the worse case of 9 quarerly installments from Jun 06 then you are ok. If they don't deliver by then you can get all your money back according to the contract. Hopefully it will be done as they state in the contract "endeavours to complete by 30 June 2008". Endeavour mean try their best - usually it will be later. I dont really believe that they will complete by end of 2007, this is possibly sales talk so that the investment looks better.

dubai is fast no doubt, but honestly i think its developers mistake usually,just no proper planning.

Any sign of activity or boards up at the site yet?

Just about to send the contract and my 10 % deposit for my 1 bed appt, Concerned that there is not much happening on the plot, does any one share same concern?

nope. get used to it.
maybe it will start by end of sept

Torch to be launched officially in Dubai next week I'm led to believe also there has been some action on the site in the last few days im told from some people in dubai.

i highly doubt this will be released next week, but i will also see if i can get a :tentative: date.

Is there anyone in Dubai who could tell us wether the ground work started?

i am not in dubai but *doubt* *doubt* *doubt*

D-L might check out tomorrow.

Boards have gone up!

D-L, perhaps you can take some photos this weekend on your visit.

Launched in dubai this week. Every other day it will be in the Gulf News and once a week it will be in Property Weekly.

hope to go on a small trip tomorrow
really excited to see it

Thanks Dubai- Lover.

News from Dubai Select...

In the past week a number of surveys have been completed around the site area which include road, traffic and aeronautical surveys. The piling contract has been awarded and this means that below ground construction can begin within 14 days of approval on these new studies which have already been submitted.

A gallery of site photos and building progress will be available soon here:

http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk/gallery/

wow progress updates sounds good.

nothing yet
still the same as billions of years ago

I have heared from a friend that Dubaiselect changed the floor plans, I have not been informed about this, has anyone who bought in the Torch been told about the change?

maybe it was scaled down...

unlikely, just had my contract back with floorplan signed off as original! Maybe number of floors are being reduced? I don't think the 3-beds or the penthouses are selling well!

because most people don't buy 3bdrs or penthouses as investment.
and this IS an investment tower.
we will see.
maybe they reduce it to 60F. as long as the design remains and it will be over 300 i am fine.

What do you mean by this tower IS an investment tower?

because of the payment plan, mortgage , financing etc the developer offers it is likely that a lot of buyers bought it as an investment.
also the location is quite ok!

Dont think they will reduce it - I heard that they have sold quite a lot of 3 beds. Doubt if they will refund and redeisgn. Doesnt make sense. Instead I guess they will sell the remaining units in the recent Dubai launch. They have 2 years to sell them yet.

I notice from DLs photo of Marina Heights that it look like the boards are half up. I think I can see the Dubai Select Torch logo ?

i guess you talk about that blue fence on the bottom of the pic
this is the typical emaar dubai marina construction site fence
whatever this is used for, 2 pieces only :D

trust me, there is NOTHING YET!

i'll keep you updated

there are no signs yet...

*inside info* the developer is having problems with financing from the bank, and havent recieved all of there approval documents yet.

Yeap they have practically sold all the 3 bed Marina/Sea facing apartments. Wouldnt be surprised if this tower is totally sold out by end of the year.

but i would.


ragga are you in dubai at the moment.

Dubai Select team is in dubai this week and apparently something will be happening on site it may already have.

dubaiflo what u mean location is quite ok! Its a fab location. People with marina facing apartments will have great views.

I very much doubt it if dubai select have sold 50% of the tower, if they have show us the proof!

well they have sold about 80% of it now.

First 21 floors totally sold.

All 05 and 06 2 beds gone.

Limited availability of 04's

3 bed marina/sea facing all nearly gone too.

*deleted*

Actually, just got back from dubai... and planning my next trip for december. I didnt see any signs either... i doubt torch tower is sold in THAT high percentages, basically its all marketing. i know they have sold quite alot in the UK and europe, and just launched in dubai presold i would say around 50-60% not sure, but i cant imagine it being sold that high..

Trying to get rid of our torch apartments, anyone interested? lol

never ever.
agree with you on the sales point.

arfie, yes the location is quite ok!

ragga, are you serious about selling the Torch and why please?

yes, selling for personal reasons.

I already have one bedroom, would,t mind another, what type do you have? and what do you want for it?

yes, selling for personal reasons.


invested too much in domains ;)

buying elsewhere?

will post all of the details today, and send to whoever PM'd me.

#1304 904 sq. ft. selling price 825,000
#1305 904 sq. ft. selling price 825,000
#1307 904 sq. ft. selling price 895,000 --- marina facing
#1308 904 sq. ft. selling price 895,000 ---- marina facing

All are one bedroom.

I,ll buy the 05 for 740,000.

When it starts?? Oktober??

hmmh... would it be possible to buy only 10sq. ft from one apartment? that's all what I need (and could afford) :D

lol easily satisfied dazz ;)

stephan it was supposed to start in sept.

Was at the site today - absolutely no activity.

How about contacting the company to see when it'll start

Welcome back AI Million, have you bought in the TORCH?

Was at the site today - absolutely no activity.

Very true indeed:

http://tinypic.com/e6su36.jpg

(today)

Hope it will start soon, but there is no hurry. Its scheduled to be ready for 2008, maybe they'l start during the winter, when its not as hot temperatures.

Btw, great updates altin.

there IS hurry it is scheduled for end 2007 and they wanted to start in august, then sept and still nothing.

Posting for the record on behalf of Dubai Select:
Over three hundred purchasers have already received and exchanged their apartment Sale and Purchase Agreements for apartments purchased this project, many other apartments of course are reserved and working through the various stages that precede this. All agreements commit to anticipated completion of June 2008. There have not been any significant architectural changes to The Torch since finalising the unit floor plans several months ago; no changes to the number of floors or overall number of apartments of each size in this tower and no changes to the layout or orientation of individual units. Any queries regarding the specific detail of the contract issued to purchasers in this tower can be directed to a member of our aftersales team who are widely experienced in dealing with the common occuring contract issues when buying off-plan in Dubai.
Whilst I fully appreciate that speculation and opinion are to a certian extent the unit of exchange in a forum like this, as always we welcome any requests for information made directly to us where full and accurate apdates are readily available on any aspect of the sales, aftersales or planned construction of this project. All purchasers of property from Dubai Select receive these updates summarily through our aftersales department.
BTW, I have passed the strapline "..the investors' tower" on to our marketing department for consideration. thanks !

So can you tell us when construction will start?

Well, thats confident and secured parts or my worried and doubt over the awareness I have that it was gonna be cancled oh put on-hold.

I'm glad. :)

OK three things for GilesBeswick:

1) i appreciate that two members of dubaiselect got the back to join this forum and try to answer our questions and worries,
and our doubts occuring concerning this tower.
though i must admit i was not very keen about paultaylorworld's behaviour.

2)the expression "the investor's tower" was mine, i want 100 bucks for it :D

nevertheless, a tower which is only sold to investors is not only a good thing imo, of course, your company can be satisfied,
and sit back and relax if a guy buys several floors.but overall it is rather a pity if all the nice marina view apts remain empty finally.


3)so tell us, when will construction start?
we heard june, we heard august, we heard end of september? what are we going to hear now?

Please see press release from Dubai a couple of weeks ago. I can confirm that artwork has already been sent to the contractor prior to erecting boards and commencing work imminently.

Dubai Select LLC announces award of the piling contract for its Aed 700 million “Torch Tower” Project in Dubai Marina to Züblin ground and civil engineering LLC .

Dubai, September 22, 2005: In a significant move, starting the on-site development of the landmark 74-storey freehold Torch Tower at the Dubai Marina, the Dubai-based property major Dubai Select LLC announced today the awarding of the piling and foundation contract for the AED 700 million project to Züblin, part of an international group with offices worldwide.

Züblin (http://www2.zueblin.de )has a proven construction track record stretching over 100 years. Dubai Select announced “We have chosen Züblin because of the company’s unmatched quality track record in piling and foundation work in the UAE as well as across the GCC and Europe. We wanted best-of-the-breed partnerships to lead the Torch Tower development to ensure that the project will achieve completion with a strict quality level and in a timescale to fully satisfy our customers.”

Dubai Select said Züblin was chosen after a round of stringent evaluation and assessment in which many pile foundation companies short listed earlier were scrutinized for their quality, experience and capability in executing high value technically complex projects.

end

why didn't we get that press release?
or did i miss it..
was it in gulf news or ameinfo etc?

flo, you should be pleased that it is a German construction company doing the piling ? :) Zueblin are a good company.

i don't care.
germans are doing groundwork for almost every tower in dubai.
bauer spezialtiefbau!

German companies seem really doing everything in Dubai right now, except some Atkins works....as appearently that I can see....:D

and middle east foundations group and arabtec.

some of you guys seem so eager to sort of use any scheduling delay of Torch as in .....see this is suspicious, this is really really fishy, told u so... bang away though at your heart's content, Torch when done will probably add value to MH let alone its own. Well done Torch owners.

Zublin? forgive my ignorance, I thought the builders were Katib and Alami!

khatib & alami is an architectural company and consultancy
they also do engineering works

dozens of companies are involved in a tower project

Who will be awarded the main construction contract after piling?
Seems that Katib and Alami are only involved as architects?

i think the main contractor will be awarded early next year

i doubt K&A are architects?!

Who are K&A? What other buildings have they designed?

Khatib & Alami (http://www.khatibalami.com) is one of the most succesful architectural companies in Dubai. Some of their projects:

The Tower
The Fairmont
Rose Rotana
Al Marsa Tower

i doubt K&A are architects?!

why do you doubt it? Their sign is on the floorplan drawings and Dubai Select have already announced them as the architect and consultant.

usually, and only usually, K&A do just build the tower, their main field is engineering and construction, not architecture.
nevertheless you could be right and they are the torch's architects indeed.

^ Flo you're wrong. K & A are architects.

Another tower designed by them is No1 Marina.

some of you guys seem so eager to sort of use any scheduling delay of Torch as in .....see this is suspicious, this is really really fishy, told u so... bang away though at your heart's content, Torch when done will probably add value to MH let alone its own. Well done Torch owners.

Speaking for myself, I just want the damn tower to start construction.

^ Flo you're wrong. K & A are architects.

Another tower designed by them is No1 Marina.

i did not say they are not
but their main field isn't archtitecture?
it is more engineering, planning, construction.

^ All of them are in planing and enginering: SOM, ATKINS ... you name it.

if it is true like that, i was wrong :)

nevertheless K&A has always been more of a construction company to me than an architect.

confused :D
i can give you guys a list of doctors

k&a is active in many industries, but the most important one is architecture
they're not a construction company though

btw - website sucks

K&A are also the architects for 2N Tower!

already posted the description in its thread.

today there was one piece of a crane on the site with a zublin banner

seems they bring the machinery in pieces

Anybody interested in a Torch 2 bed 06 Marina facing ? At a good price plz send me PM. Sorry to use this board for this but I need to sell my apt.

why?
do you have insider news :D ?

http://resources.itilitycontenthub.net/IT0301/16549/6.jpg
http://resources.itilitycontenthub.net/IT0301/16550/7.jpg
http://resources.itilitycontenthub.net/IT0301/16545/3.jpg

Has the groundwork statred?

No, but they have a nice crane ;) (Pic from today)

http://www.stratus2.net/18-10/torch.jpg

No-one there, no movement, no work - just this crane!

Hope it!!!!

But it don't look so. The plot behind the Torch, what tower is this?

From where I took the picture, the plot behind the Torch with the blue boards is the Pinnacle (its across the road)- they were pouring concrete there today. The tower directly between The Torch and the sea (Emirates Crown) has also started growing at some speed now. The one next to that (also between the Torch and the sea) is the Princess Tower and they were doing ground tests today.

Thanks a lot.

Many Thanks, the location is as good as marina heights.

great pics DS and ALM!

So on DS's jpg 7, I guess the hotel on the left the Mina Seyahi or Le Royal M?

Hope Infinity Tower won't impact too much looking from the other way back to Grosvenor? Any ideas or pictures?

infinity will certainly impact the view from the torch sea and marina view apts (looking to the left)

anyway..what a huge construction activity :D

What are they doing infront of the superblock just keeping it as a boat yard.

well i don't think for long.
anyway this is not emaar property, i think it belongs to nakheel.
dubai marina yacht club was in there, altin knows the full story.

^ :D

Nakheel could build a huge develpment there and piss off all the tower owners as they will all loose their sea view. Is there any agreement with Nakheel and Emaar regarding this as it affects the Emmar master plan?

doubt that but i also doubt municipality/govt would allow that in the near future.

altin would you mind to tell us instead of this stupid :D
:lol:

Some more machineries arrived, and it seams that the site offices are already in place

http://tinypic.com/eur49u.jpg

can't take too long
hope it starts this month

it already took way too long...

In fact this is the last of the Marina supertall anounced, isn't it ? So it's going quite fast actually, look at Marina Pinnacle and Princess Tower ;-)

maybe another half a year until it starting to rise?

lets give Dubaiselect some credit, although the progress has been very slow, at least they have now made a start.

How long would you say it will take to complete judging by the speed equipment, etc. is turning up?

I would say 4-5 years to completion is realistic.

I think you are looking at Q1 2009

They should start first, before we give a date of completition

they intended to do it end 07 but this was changed to 2008 now.
ned 2008/beg 2009 is realistic.

In fact this is the last of the Marina supertall anounced, isn't it ? So it's going quite fast actually, look at Marina Pinnacle and Princess Tower ;-)

no doubt but they told us it will start in august first.

I think the date of completeion will depend on how much money they have and this would obviously depend on the number of units sold.

Lets say 50% of the tower sold, then 5 years is about right.

75% of the tower sold, then 4 years is realistic

Over 90%, they can then do it in 3 years.

I would assume the equipment turning up is to test the ground - as the Princess tower did back in Jan - so who knows how long it'll take before the testing is completed, results analysed, foundations designed, Emaar gives permission, etc..

They have to complete before 31st Dec 2008 (in contract) otherwise buyers can ask for all monies paid including interest to be refunded immediately. Contract says aim is to complete by Middle 2008

Well, DAMAC used their 'act of God clause' so I doubt its so watertight. Seems reasonable to finish by Dec 08 though

Can Dubai Select tell me how much of the torch they have sold-also is it being sold elsewhere? Things are already behind and as purchasers it is only courteous to give us all an update on the situation. Also did anyone go to the show they did in London last weekend!

today

http://tinypic.com/ezh9q9.jpg

Meh ! i think a car was leaking oil on the parking space !

what are the blue boards in background?
the new ones for marina pinnacle?

^ Yes

pile driver was doing its work today
officially under c right now

changed here and on emporis :okay:

great news...
can you believe it :)

I think you'll find they're making holes to do tests on the ground - not part of the construction at all

Blablabla. D-L is always right!!!!!

:lol: what's your point.
actually almillion had some importants stuff and thinking abt it he could be right as well.
anyway how's it going almillion? everything fine with your apt?
are you in dubai?

I am not trying to show D-L up as being wrong, far from it - I respect and appreciate his massive contribution to this site.

The reason for my comment is simple - as far as we are aware no testing has been done on this plot previously and if construction were starting it would probably involve a lot of digging before piling started.

Just as with the other towers the site has to be tested, foundation design (i.e. depth, size, etc.) agreed before construction actually commences.

Course they may skip the testing step but I'd certainly not recommend living there ;) You might wake up one day to find your floor not quite horizontal!

well, i consider testing as start of construction
once this job is done they will immediatley start

I doubt anything will start before 2006

We'll see - only time will tell! Princess Tower first tested the ground back in Jan...

we think princess couldn't start before emirates crown broke ground, however.

as far as we are aware no testing has been done on this plot previously and if construction were starting it would probably involve a lot of digging before piling started.

Just as with the other towers the site has to be tested, foundation design (i.e. depth, size, etc.) agreed before construction actually commences.


And it is also possible that they have sent in a machine to dig a few holes just to give the appearance of progress to keep the purchasers off their back for another while. The real measure of progress in this site will be when the main contractor is appointed.

I think you'll find they're making holes to do tests on the ground - not part of the construction at all

I agree, maybe we should wait for a while

they are not doing test piles and soil tests, they are actually doing piling by Zublin (german contractor) they ave a 40 ton maching on site as well as a crane (for lifting in cages) so its deffinatly U/C

And it is also possible that they have sent in a machine to dig a few holes just to give the appearance of progress to keep the purchasers off their back for another while. The real measure of progress in this site will be when the main contractor is appointed.

Damn if they start and damn if they don,t!

engineers have already imo identified and diagnosed the material/soil n which excavation is to be made. im sure those involved in the field, know better than I the rule of earth retaining system and first step in determining its adequacy for building on it, but that aside - If Torch plot would have been classified as non-adequate, than the same argument can be made for its srnding plots and subsequently for most of already build DM buildings since soil sgot same composition...... i agree with Giles, those machines are n site to drive columns into ground supprting future structure.

As usual people have completely misunderstood my post. I am not trying to say the tower WON'T be built, just that it hasn't yet started. Every plot has to have tests done as part of due diligence to ensure a building's design (i.e. the foundations) is correct for the land it will be built upon. They have to discover how far down they need to excavate, etc. etc.

When you look at pictures like this:
http://tinypic.com/eas9kk.jpg
... which is for a 35-floor tower you should begin to understand what I mean (we're talking about an 80-floor tower!). If they're drilling holes at the current level they must be to gain information on the area before working out the depth they must excavate to.

Put simply every big tower on the Marina has started life as a bloody big hole - if they're not digging yet it must mean they're still doing site research.

Easy solution is for someone to visit the site and take a picture - unfortunately I am not there anymore.

When I last visited the equipment/office was there but there wasn't a single soul working on site.

GilesBeswick, your turn!

first of all the plot is not even
it's falling down towards the marina

time place could also have a basement!

first of all the plot is not even
it's falling down towards the marina

time place could also have a basement!

Does that mean they can,t build on it?

no
what i mean is that the wall on the left is higher than the one on the right
the excavation for the tower is of course even

regarding the depth of the excavation and the wall height and the length of the piles, there still might be space for one basement parking level

it also depends on the soil conitions how deep you have to dig and how many piles and so on

eg: compare the hole size of marina pinnacle and ocean heights
marina pinnacle has the deepest hole of all although no basement parking while ocean heights the taller tower only had a very small excavation hole!

Exactly DL - and without testing they won't know the soil conditions, will they? heh!

A picture would be nice :)

What was the DAMAC "act of God clause"?

Was searching everywhere for details of the Torch, and could barely find anything online except at the Dubai Select's website, which makes me believe that they havent promoted the development online at all.

Well anyway, I came across alittle bit of info about it on TEN Real Estate.
The Torch (Dubai Marina) (http://realestate.theemiratesnetwork.com/developments/dubai/the_torch.php)

Some more info:

Dubai Select is owned by the Stott group of companies. (Mark Stott) as described in these public websites:

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/homesearch/latest/readershomes/s/128/128392_icons_cue_to_cowshed_conversion_.html

A lot of conspiracy theories! They may be right or not..

More likely reason for delay in construction is that Dubai Select did not off load enough units initially and therefore are now waiting to sell more or collect the next 20% (due end of this month) before starting construction.

However I think the start is always slow as with some other towers and provided they start the piling work before end of the year they should still finish by mid 2008!

If we are in Jan and no work, I would worry :)

i wonder if dubaiselect is the developer of this project?
do they play the same role as emaar as a property developer?
or are they just real-estate agents selling units of the tower?

both this time i guess.

still waiting for the real action

today

http://tinypic.com/fbje3r.jpg

Looks great though, atlease all those crains look new..:D

Does anyone know what will be built in front of the Torch, where the Emaar sales office currently is? Do we know for sure what the planning permission maximum height is? If something is built there will the lower marina facings apartments still have view of the marina to the sides?

maximum 12 or 17 floors i forgot..sorry.
i doubt it will be a massive building.
sometimes i am not even sure there will be a building...

why is planning permission only 12 or 17 floors? Is it possible that a new super tall tower could go there? if not why not?

id like to invest in the torch but have concerns that still construction has not began im sick of being told time and time again that next week work will begin,this project must have some funding problems sorry to speculate but who in there right minds would hand over any money??

yepp permission is somewhere between 12 to 17F.

no new supertall it would destory a lot of towers view, i also think the plot could be too close to the water and main reason,
it would destroy emaar's phase 1 towers and N2 towers view. :)

Does anyone know what will be built in front of the Torch, where the Emaar sales office currently is? Do we know for sure what the planning permission maximum height is? If something is built there will the lower marina facings apartments still have view of the marina to the sides?

A friend of mine who works in the real estate business told me today that the plot in front of the TORCH will be a new Hotel.

So we can conclude then that most likely the Emaar Office in front of the Torch will be a Hotel between 12 and 17 floors tall.

Does anyone know if this permission of 12 to 17 floors can be extended by Emaar for the right price?

doubt it, just because emaar towers would be affected.

dubaifirst r u sure he did not refer to infinity tower or al marsa? :)
nevertheless i could imagine 'dubai marina hotel' there.

id like to invest in the torch but have concerns that still construction has not began im sick of being told time and time again that next week work will begin,this project must have some funding problems sorry to speculate but who in there right minds would hand over any money??

Most projects in Dubai are sold out before construction begins. Also remember that you are entitled to a full refund including interest if completion does not happen by end of 2008

Why are there no boards up yet on the Torch plot ?

doubt it, just because emaar towers would be affected.

dubaifirst r u sure he did not refer to infinity tower or al marsa? :)
nevertheless i could imagine 'dubai marina hotel' there.

I was definetly told a Hotel.

^ Al Marsa is a Hotel and word is that Infinity tower will be a hotel as well.

but this is strange
first of all i hope they don't put another building there in front of marina heights and the torch
would be stupid

this also means the sales center and probably the restaurant have to be demolished

only the sales centre judging from the plot map and from what i know.

steve thanks for your opinion,what if there is no money left to pay investors??also have dubai select presented year end accounts.

steve thanks for your opinion,what if there is no money left to pay investors??also have dubai select presented year end accounts.

Dubai Select Ltd. was incorporated 12/03/2004. Latest accounts 30/09/2004 Annual Returns 12/03/2005. This information is freely available on a company information services website.