#COMPLETED: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m [Archive] - Page 20

High Times

December 11th, 2007, 12:24 PM

On the issue of build quality there seems to be a lot of missinformation.

Firstly what is the standard for build quality in Dubai ? Who knows ?

When i go to Dubai i stay in supposedly 5* hotel accomadation Hilton, Shereton, Meridien etc. Whilst i have been happy with my stays with all concerned if i was paying for my hotel room as a purchased unit i would not be happy as the workmanship is very poor. Particularly the tiling in bathrooms/kitchens and the pipework for plumbing conections, it always looks sub standard when compared to work i have had done in the UK/Europe.

Steve says that Timeplace quality finishing is poor yet i know Timeplace investors who are happy with it and quote 100% return on their original investment. I can't comment because i havn't seen it.

Essencially finish quality comes down to;

1- quality of materiels used
2 -how they are physicaly fitted to the stucture itself

I have seen the proposed fixtures and fittings that will be used in the Torch and i think that they are of a good quality.

So ultimately it will all come down to how DCE fit the products to the building. This will effect the reputations of all concerned Select Property, DCE, Khatib and Alami.

I just hope that quality is not compromised due to an attempt to push the project forward to meet contractual deadlines and compensation clauses.

Anyone who purchases in Dubai and expects the stated completion date to be realistic is insane IMO. If you think that an 80fl + building can be built in 2years to a high standard finish then you need to give yourself a slap and wake up :hammer:

smshah

December 14th, 2007, 10:27 PM

the torch forum is a little bit quite for a few days, any advances in constuction past the podium?

Tractor

December 15th, 2007, 10:34 AM

They're starting to create the mold for the first floor of the actual tower ... have to say it seems smaller than I expected although it could be an optical illusion because the base is so big!

mackie1964

December 15th, 2007, 11:27 AM

They're starting to create the mold for the first floor of the actual tower ... have to say it seems smaller than I expected although it could be an optical illusion because the base is so big!

Cheers Tractor :cheers:

If you can, can you post a photo please?

Anjam

December 15th, 2007, 01:22 PM

They're starting to create the mold for the first floor of the actual tower ... have to say it seems smaller than I expected although it could be an optical illusion because the base is so big!

^^Thx for the update.

Mackie> Did you touch on the webcam topic with DS?

mackie1964

December 15th, 2007, 02:39 PM

No, sorry I was depressed about the state of everything else, the web cam was not even on coming close to the list :bash:

smshah

December 15th, 2007, 05:32 PM

^^ what were you depressed about may i ask?

foxy

December 15th, 2007, 06:02 PM

Mackie did you feel they listened. Will anything change?

Mistermark

December 15th, 2007, 07:35 PM

I just hope that quality is not compromised due to an attempt to push the project forward to meet contractual deadlines and compensation clauses.

Anyone who purchases in Dubai and expects the stated completion date to be realistic is insane IMO. If you think that an 80fl + building can be built in 2years to a high standard finish then you need to give yourself a slap and wake up :hammer:

I agree that anyone who reserves in The Torch now and expects completion in December 2008 (their original schedule) is rather optimistic, especially if they do some research online into how late most developments are being delivered in Dubai.

However, I reserved when the project was first unveiled, and I do feel that the completion date was realistic at the time and could have been achieved had the project been pursued with focus.

Even now, when DS claim there's 24-hour shift working and extra personnel on site, we see photos and videos proving that this is not the case. So, especially for those of us who've been customers for some time, the blame does belong to DS for being lax rather than us for being gullible...

High Times

December 15th, 2007, 07:36 PM

Mackie did you feel they listened. Will anything change?

Yes I'm sure 1 investor turning up armed to the teeth with a digital camera will get SP to speed things up and stop F**king around....:ohno:

PAULDELVES

December 15th, 2007, 11:31 PM

True Blue

December 16th, 2007, 01:19 AM

^^ Don't hold your breath for the compensation. With rising material and labour costs, if there is nothing left in the pot then it can't be paid. The beauty of the new Escrow account, money cannot be taken from the accounts of other projects. When it's gone it's gone!

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 01:48 AM

^^ Compensation has been confirmed in writing. For early investors compensation payments to customers start Jan 09, which should be approx. 50% of the quarterly payments on the 15 year plan.

True Blue

December 16th, 2007, 02:35 AM

Something I may be missing here. I am sure that all other developers that have paid compensation, don't pay the money untill after completion and all payments by the owner have been paid.

Therefore compensation may be calculated from Jan 09 but not paid until 2011+.

We probably won't know until Jan 09 how they are going to play it. I still have a gut feeling you are on to plums.

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 03:16 AM

My understanding from the letter is that penalties that buyers impose on the seller can be deducted from payments due. There is also an option to cancel and have all money paid to date returned from Dec 31st 08. (Although no one in their right mind would do that)

"I can confirm that you will be entitled to penalty payments from the 31st December 2008"

Naz UK

December 16th, 2007, 09:30 AM

There's a greater chance of Dubai Select paying compensation from Jan 09 than True Blue putting a sock in it re: Dubai Select.

Anjam

December 16th, 2007, 12:43 PM

^^ Compensation has been confirmed in writing. For early investors compensation payments to customers start Jan 09, which should be approx. 50% of the quarterly payments on the 15 year plan.

Steve: How do you make it 50% of quaterly payments?

AltinD

December 16th, 2007, 01:26 PM

Let me put it in this way: Chances of compensation from DS are as great as ending up with un-obstructed Marina view from all front-side apartments of the tower.

Tractor

December 16th, 2007, 02:06 PM

Seeing as I've had little abuse from DS-investors recently ...

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_11df2vsxd3

That is the top-floor of the podium (left side nearly ready for concrete) - you can also make out the first floor of the tower being made ready

True Blue

December 16th, 2007, 02:26 PM

Great shot Tractor. The extent of the floor plate is shown by the 4 pairs of diagonal columns.

Joannides

December 16th, 2007, 02:31 PM

nice one Tractor - Great picture!

rexdmx

December 16th, 2007, 04:08 PM

My understanding from the letter is that penalties that buyers impose on the seller can be deducted from payments due. There is also an option to cancel and have all money paid to date returned from Dec 31st 08. (Although no one in their right mind would do that)

is there any clause in the contract where the service fees may be increased?
if so could they increase the service fees and recoup any penalty payment..?

High Times

December 16th, 2007, 04:52 PM

We recently bought a corner 3 bed on 73rd floor (Palm view past La Reve) from DS and I am told completion will be Sept 2009 which even at 1 and a 1/2 floors a week should be just achievable - Coming in at this time we have probaly paid over the odds but then I don't see the wait as unreasonable,as opposed to investors who bought early and have been let down (although i guess they paid considerably less) - as someone has intimated DS have to pay compensation after Sept 2009 so hopefully we shouldn't be out of pocket

On an architectural note I think the Torch is more stunning than the Princess,Elite, La Reve etc and will look very impressive when the actual "TORCHLIGHT" is lit amongst the super towers in and around the vicinity.

Hi Paul,

I also went for 3 beds very high up too. I have an original price list and your unit was going for Dhs 1.9m, (although technicaly there was no floor 73 at launch, this was added in a later re-design).

Before i signed my deal earlir this year I looked at an 01 type 3bed which faces the palm and was asked Dhs 2m for it so you should have paid around that i reckon depending on what discounts you may have negotiated.

Although i dont know exactly how much you have agreed to pay I dissagree with your comments about paying over the odds for the reasons below assuming you are UK based as your profile suggests;

Launch prices for high 3 bed palm facing
Dhs 1.9m exchange rate was 6.4 so Sterling price was £296k

Nov 07 prices for high 3 bed palm facing
Dhs 2m exchange rate was 7.4 so Sterling price was £270k

Even if you paid up to Dhs 2.2m you were still better to wait and get the better exchange rate as well as not having invested with no progress for the best part of 2 years.

I totally agree with you regarding the design of this building when it is finished it will put it's neighbours to shame with the aluminium and glass cladding, and LED feature on top it will look stunning, and as the name suggests it will be the shining light of the Upper Marina/Tallest Block area.

2009 completion is very optomistic IMO i reckon 2nd/3rd quarter 2010. All good things come to those who wait. :cheers:

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 05:48 PM

is there any clause in the contract where the service fees may be increased?
if so could they increase the service fees and recoup any penalty payment..?

No this can not happen and also for later the service fees are set by a separate entity.

According to my calculations, those with a typical 2 bed on the 15 year scheme should get around £15,000 back in compensation, paid during construction and assuming hand-over end of 2010.

Sheltie

December 16th, 2007, 07:44 PM

Great shot Tractor. The extent of the floor plate is shown by the 4 pairs of diagonal columns.

I can't make out the 4 pairs of diagonal columns. Can you just explain to me where the first floor will be.

Sheltie

December 16th, 2007, 07:46 PM

Great shot Tractor. The extent of the floor plate is shown by the 4 pairs of diagonal columns.

Sorry, had another look and I've got it now. Those diagonal columns look like the ones on the corner balconies, am I right?

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 08:00 PM

^^ yes they are the corner balconies.

mackie1964

December 16th, 2007, 08:52 PM

Seeing as I've had little abuse from DS-investors recently ...

Thank you my sensitive friend. Keep up the good work (Both photos and opinion). :cheers:

It always amazes me how everybody builds this fancy inside their head of how they have done well comparing with others. Unless you have all the facts (especially the different % discount people got early days :)) you can't really judge. Some units are much more difficult to sell or rent and is going to get much more difficult in the future for the larger units. DS or SG has done a good job with somebody here. Excellent at selling even the 3 bedded rooms :)

^^ what were you depressed about may i ask?

Well….My Mother in Law ………………………What do you think :bash:

Mackie did you feel they listened. Will anything change?

Out of their control I am afraid, they took on much more they can handle in my opinion :ohno:

is there any clause in the contract where the service fees may be increased?
if so could they increase the service fees and recoup any penalty payment..?

A yearly account has to be produced by the management company and you have the right to review it.

Gorilla

December 16th, 2007, 09:09 PM

if that's the last podium level where is the pool then!?

True Blue

December 16th, 2007, 09:17 PM

if that's the last podium level where is the pool then!?

It could easily fit over the car ramp. This would make sense as the extra depth required would not interfere with the space below.

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 09:21 PM

huh? why would they move the pool to this side, when there is a HUGE space on the right hand side by the road ?

mackie1964

December 16th, 2007, 09:23 PM

@ TB;

We thought that looking at it from MH. It would be nice if they mirror the Marina Height arrangements but I am not so confident. I have asked for some information on the facilities yet again, maybe this time they send me some!

You get the sun most of the day that way, untill the big ones are built.

True Blue

December 16th, 2007, 09:27 PM

huh? why would they move the pool to this side, when there is a HUGE space on the right hand side by the road ?

Is the location already confirmed? I am making an observation based on the existing layout and where it would easily fit. It's not about the floor area as much as the space below that is required to accomodate the tank. Over the car ramp is perfect if you consider the section through a pool which deepens to one side.

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 09:30 PM

What you say makes sense but I always thought the pool is on the side by the road. Seems silly to have such a small pool area and a huge barbecue area instead.

mackie1964

December 16th, 2007, 09:32 PM

Is the location already confirmed? I am making an observation based on the existing layout and where it would easily fit. It's not about the floor area as much as the space below that is required to accomodate the tank. Over the car ramp is perfect if you consider the section through a pool which deepens to one side.

K&A or NBE don't employ Architects who think that way, Have you seen the TP Pool Design? Its F****ng Shocking the waste of space.

True Blue

December 16th, 2007, 09:36 PM

K&A or NBE don't employ Architects who think that way, Have you seen the TP Pool Design? Its F****ng Shocking the waste of space.

Yep! No diving for fear of crashing you head into the other side. :nuts:

AltinD

December 16th, 2007, 09:52 PM

^^ Have you seen the pool plans of Princess Tower I posted some months back? 13 meters long including the kids area and a jakuzzi on the other side, and some 1.6 or 1.8 meter at the deeppest part.

Dubai_Steve

December 16th, 2007, 10:01 PM

Here are the plans for the pool

http://i9.tinypic.com/4r8josg.jpg

mackie1964

December 16th, 2007, 10:30 PM

^^I remember taking this photo my self over a year ago but it was all just ideas I was told at the time:nuts:

I also think that there is not enough height over the Car park ramp looking at some of my photos from a few weeks back!

High Times

December 17th, 2007, 03:13 PM

It always amazes me how everybody builds this fancy inside their head of how they have done well comparing with others. Unless you have all the facts (especially the different % discount people got early days :)) you can't really judge. Some units are much more difficult to sell or rent and is going to get much more difficult in the future for the larger units. DS or SG has done a good job with somebody here. Excellent at selling even the 3 bedded rooms :)

Mackie, there are some interesting comments that you have made there, some of which are obviously aimed at me, so i think i should do you the courtesy of educating you on a few points.

Firstly, I agree that everyones situation is different as we have all negotiated different discounts from SP as i said in my last post.

Secondly, yes we probably all have a view, or (fancy in our head), on how things might turn out in Dubai when the dust settles, and we probably all think that were right, or else we wouldn't have decided to do what we have all done would we.

And now for an educational interlude.

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8083/74450625tq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The reasons that i have decided to invest in 3 bedroomed units are not due to the polished sales skills of the Select Properties marketing machine. The reasons are as follows;

You say yourself that some units are much more difficult to sell/rent both now and in the future. Your spot on here. Especialy when the supply demand ratio is more evenely weighted towards the buyer/tennant.

If we take the Torch in isolation for a moment, when the Torch is eventually finished and some 664 units are available for rent then any interested tennants will have a lot of potential units to choose from. By owning a 3 bed as opposed to a 1 or 2 it gives me as a landlord so much more in the way of what i can offer my tennant to entice him to rent my unit rather than one of the many 2 beds being offered.

You see I can offer my 3 bed for just a little more (price wise) than a 2 bed which could make the difference between having an empty unit or a tennanted one. Come 2010 -2012 I can see potential in Dubai for a lot of empty units (not so says the Select Property salesman). Well if the shit does hit the fan then i want to have something to offer which is a bit special, something thats not your everyday stack em high 2 bed that the Marina is flooded with.

When our units in the Torch come to market, and supply is high I would rather rent out my 3 bed for the price of a 2 bed than have it sat empty, (oh but that reduces your rental yield I hear some say), yes and so does owning an empty property I say.

Also 3 beds as you know will be from floors 66-73. Anything below that and you are looking at concrete in my opinion. I hope not for the many Torch investors that have bought on a lower floor, and for the Marina in general as I think a supertall this close to the edge in District 10 would spoil the asthetics of the area. We will have to wait and see on this but my money is up high to try and offer my clients/tennants something to enjoy from their balconies.

So for those reasons i decided on 3 beds, simply to "limit the downside" . The first rule of any succesfull investor.

On the other hand if it all goes better than planned and everything has doubled in value when the Torch is complete, then profitablility will be measured with a tape measure and square feet will be converted into cash, thus "maximising the upside". The second rule of any succesfull investor.

I am a businessman not a builder with a some spare cash to have a go with, so my decisions are based on financial implications, percentages and the laws of economics and probablity.

Mackie, paradoxicaly your quote that Some units are much more difficult to sell or rent and is going to get much more difficult in the future for the larger units. DS or SG has done a good job with somebody here . This is the precise reason that there are so many 1 & 2 beds available, especially in the Marina. Its because when any developer sits down with his architect he says (right now what will sell the easist and quickest). Due to budget, as 80%of property in Dubai is being bought by speculators they build more 1&2 beds than anytything else. We are in a speculators market at the moment. We will be in a very different place in 5-10 years time I can assure you.

My comments are not intended to cause offence to anyone, but I am hearing all the time from people that 3 beds are the wrong thing to do and IMO this is simply missinformation and needs to be addressed, so there you go.

Richard Branson once wrote, "In business the real winners always swim against the tide".

If things go the way we all want them to go, then I will be the first to the bar in the Torch when it's all complete to get a round in. :cheers:

FWIW

December 17th, 2007, 05:00 PM

High Times - Good post and thoughtful debate.

However, the reason I invested in a 2 bed was because of my view of my target renter.

I believe (rightly or wrongly) that my target renter is an expat with a good job and been recently relocated to Dubai. The renter's employer has a fixed budget with which to provide them with accomodation.

My 'rudimentry' thought process went:
Studio - way too small for my target renter (and I agree with you that these are bought en mass by speculators usally using finance and generally talking yields)
1 bed - too small for my target renter (would be good for individuals, First Time Buyers, young family)
2 bed - just right for my target renter (1 bedroom to sleep in the other for guests esp. friends/family that have come over also if my target renters job disappears then an aspiring studio/1bedder person would probably like to move up the property ladder!)
3 bed - too big for my target renter (would be ideal for an emigrating family)
4 bed - way too big for my target renter (would be good for locals if they like living in towers)
Penthouse - too flash for my target renter (would be good for CEO's due to exclusivity,etc)

The reason I did not invest in a 3 bed property is primarily because these are for families and therefore in competetion with villas. If I myself had the choice I would prefer to live in a villa with swimming pool and gardens. hmmm somewhere like the palm would be nice...however, I decided with my mind and not my heart!

Now once I made up my mind that I wanted a 2 bed, I invested in the highest one available and one with the best views possible (in my opinion having sea & marina views is important for wow factor). The reason I did this was to ensure that my appartment had something the lower appartments did not (due to being lower down and looking into another tower).

High Times (or anyone else) please do not take any of what I have said or done as criticism - we will all do well by investing in Dubai and especially in Dubai Marina.

Regards,

fwiw

Sheltie

December 17th, 2007, 05:32 PM

High Times I fully understand what you mean and if I had the funds I would have gone for a high up 3 bed as well. Since I decided on a 2 bed I thought I might a well go for the lowest floor as we didn't know what would be built in front and it was cheapest. As it happens DS upped us 6 floors because of the fractional ownership apartments.
If something is going to be built in front then it doesn't matter if you are on the 1st or 20th floor and the 1st floor is probrably about £20,000 cheaper.

mackie1964

December 17th, 2007, 06:05 PM

You are absolutely right when you say the real winners are the high risk takers as long as it is a calculated risk. In an immature market like Dubai’s property market, it is hard to calculate such a risk and therefore swimming against the tide could go either way. I can see the logic you are applying to your argument but I am not convinced so I will happily buy you a meal and a few drinks if your views turn up to be the correct ones.

Similar to you, my comments were not intended to cause offence to anyone and all I want to know is how much staff discount did Morris get (30% I recon :)).

I can’t claim to be a real business man and I am also not a builder with some spare cash but I have learned from experience that when it comes to property market, percentages and the laws of economics do not apply especially in an emerging market such as Dubai (despite it being nearly 10 years old now).

Good Luck. :cheers:

Imre

December 20th, 2007, 03:53 PM

20/December/2007

The Torch

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2998/imresolt075wn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5016/imresolt079mu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4683/imresolt080oo2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5854/imresolt091tw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

True Blue

December 20th, 2007, 08:16 PM

I think they should rename this tower "The Mary Celeste".

Poor passer buy is the only sign of life in the 4 pictures.

mackie1964

December 20th, 2007, 08:24 PM

@ TB;

I think you are a bit unfair there. Its Eid, Christmas, Cold...........Come on Morris help me out here. For your information, I have spotted one more person :nuts:

They could all be working in the basement, what do you know about bloody construction sites :lol:

Many Thanks Imre :cheers:

Dubai_Steve

December 20th, 2007, 08:27 PM

A little reminder of the accelerated plan letter from May 07 :D

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4813/captureqx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dubai_Steve

December 20th, 2007, 08:30 PM

jeetha

December 20th, 2007, 08:34 PM

TB is right.
one person only, the lady on the poster, do not count.

Dubai_Steve

December 20th, 2007, 08:36 PM

At least there is a Men At Work sign :lol:

No doubt DS will say they are all hidden inside the basement preparing for handover of the special basement apartment.

mackie1964

December 20th, 2007, 08:37 PM

TB is right.
one person only, the lady on the poster, do not count.

You had to go and spoil it :banana:

Leave our imaginary supervisor alone :)

True Blue

December 20th, 2007, 08:41 PM

Dubai; closed from 18th Dec 2007 to 6th Jan 2008. Nearly 3 week shut down!

When the cats away the mice are at play.

Dubai_Steve

December 20th, 2007, 08:42 PM

Come one be fair, the DS staff need to go back to england to visit their family. :D

jeetha

December 20th, 2007, 08:43 PM

You had to go and spoil it :banana:

Leave our imaginary supervisor alone :)

Sorry dear! I’ll Go…. ...burn some food in the kitchen.

True Blue

December 20th, 2007, 08:45 PM

Come one be fair, the DS staff need to go back to england to visit their family. :D

Family, singular? Are they all inbred? :lol:

mackie1964

December 20th, 2007, 08:57 PM

Sorry dear! I’ll Go…. ...burn some food in the kitchen.

Its OK, I just wanted TB to try to find it :lol:

Do you use the fire alarm as your cooking timer? :lol:

dettol

December 20th, 2007, 10:50 PM

Family, singular? Are they all inbread? :lol:

:lol:

It could always be a 'family' business!?

High Times

December 22nd, 2007, 01:03 PM

Hey True Blue,

You are obviously a very intelligent person with an in depth knowledge of construction issues which are of great benefit to the forum.

You also clearly have some issues in particular with Dubai Select/Select properties.

Can you enlighten me as to why you feel so strongly that you single out DS/SP as to criticise them at every available opportunity. I like a joke as much as anyone so if it is all merry banter then fair play, but i dont read you slating anyone else to the same degree as you do DS/SP.

I dont take it personaly because i am a client of DS/SP, but i do value your comments as you are in my opinion one of the few people who post on this forum that are worth taking seriously.

Regards,

HT

True Blue

December 22nd, 2007, 04:14 PM

Tractor

December 22nd, 2007, 05:29 PM

You're not alone True Blue ... it started with AlMillion years ago before they even dug the hole (he left 'cos of the flack), then it was my turn to question their setup (and get flamed!) ... I hope you get treated better!

Seriously though, you can't blame people for being suss ... lots of dodgy co.s in Dubai and when the sales material & updates to buyers contain lies, you don't need much more of an excuse.

Having said that, I am not sure there is a single developer that fulfills their promises 100% atm.

I will post a pic tomorrow to try and keep in favour ;)

FWIW

December 22nd, 2007, 05:41 PM

jeetha

December 22nd, 2007, 06:02 PM

^^Yes! we need a few “clever chaps” to keep some balance.

High Times

December 22nd, 2007, 07:27 PM

Every so often I am asked to justify my comments made about Dubai Select or whatever name they currently use. Evertime I do this I get a backlash from the hardcore support.

To keep it simple, I just don't trust this company one little bit. They need to deliver before I will change this opinion.

Perhaps if you had genuine reasons for your passionate hatred for DS it would make sense to make them public so that people understood where your coming from.

As it stands at present all you say is you dis-strust them, they havn't delivered what they have prommissed, and their sales team are over enthusiastic. (I would agree with the later two points incidentally), but i would say this about any developer in Dubai at the moment.
It's the nature of the beast.

Before any developer hands you the keys of a unit, they must;

A- Sell all units.
B- Manage the building Program.
C- Manage the financial aspects of a development.
D- Deliver all units.

DS have completed A, are in the process of completing B and C, so apart from the massive delay in starting what have they failed on so far ?

I guess my main question to you that you seem reluctant to answer is why you seem to single out DS as a bad apple when in fact the whole tree seems to be rotten to the core.

I dont think anyone deserves to get backlash from any comments that are made as they are only personal opinions and are rarely based on factual information, so i am just trying to establish if your prejudices are justified or not.

As i have said before i think most of your factual comments regarding construction are an invaluable asset to this forum.

i love dubai

December 22nd, 2007, 07:50 PM

When I had a bad experience with DS and posted it in this forum last month many did not believed me, and my story was being questioned by some members of this forum. Now after reading this I got convinced that some members are actually DS employees. This is a forum and every one is entitled to post his or her opinion, and if it is being used by some as a form of advertisement, or to shut up who ever critisize them, is just wrong.

True Blue

December 22nd, 2007, 08:02 PM

mackie1964

December 22nd, 2007, 08:03 PM

@ I Love Dubai;

We have got to earn our bonus somehow :lol:

True Blue is just jealous :)

Morrismarina

December 22nd, 2007, 08:05 PM

"......passionate hatred for DS", where do you get that from? Distrust and hatred are 2 completely seperate verbs.

I think you'll find the correct spelling is " separate "

:lol:

marina2010

December 22nd, 2007, 08:05 PM

It is pointless arguing over DS when they have no proven track record.
IMO , any assessment (build quality/delivery time) of DS can only be made on handover of the first tower ie. Point...I guess then we can separate "bullshit" from fact.

mackie1964

December 22nd, 2007, 08:07 PM

@ Morris

Hope you enjoy the bonus this year, did you get a bottle of champagne, or are they for the special ones only? :lol:

Morrismarina

December 22nd, 2007, 08:12 PM

@ Morris

Hope you enjoy the bonus this year, did you get a bottle of champagne, or are they for the special ones only? :lol:

No I only received a dictionary this year. :lol:

True Blue

December 22nd, 2007, 08:20 PM

I think you'll find the correct spelling is " separate "

:lol:

Well done Morris, you have just convinced everyone that you are far more intelligent than me. :)

mackie1964

December 22nd, 2007, 08:23 PM

Well done Morris, you have just convinced everyone that you are far more intelligent than me. :)

No wonder you are not on the forumer of the year list :lol::banana:

High Times

December 22nd, 2007, 08:25 PM

Quotes by High Times;
"......passionate hatred for DS", where do you get that from? Distrust and hatred are 2 completely seperate verbs.

"...they are only personal opinions and are rarely based on factual information." Wrong, quite the reverse actualy.

Wow,

You must be on really dodgy ground with your justifications for slating DS if all you can do is pick faults with my English.

All I wanted were the actual facts your opinions are based on, not a lesson in English Grammar from a Scott. :)

True Blue

December 22nd, 2007, 08:26 PM

No wonder you are not on the forumer of the year list :lol::banana:

I didn't know that "good speller" was a prerequisite! :lol:

True Blue

December 22nd, 2007, 08:29 PM

Wow,

You must be on really dodgy ground with your justifications for slating DS if all you can do is pick faults with my English.

All I wanted were the actual facts your opinions are based on, not a lesson in English Grammar from a Scott. :)

You missed the point entirely. Ask Morris to explain it to you.

i love dubai

December 22nd, 2007, 08:46 PM

Hey Mackie1964

Now I know why you cancelled your Botanica reservation, you are planning for a bigger disount on the next DS project :lol:

Dubai_Steve

December 22nd, 2007, 10:03 PM

I think TB's revenge attack is a little unfair as DS did not invent the term "arse end".

AltinD

December 22nd, 2007, 11:17 PM

I didn't know that "good speller" was a prerequisite! :lol:

True! If that was one of them, Imre and me wouldn't have been battling for the title last year. :D

AltinD

December 22nd, 2007, 11:18 PM

I think TB's revenge attack is a little unfair as DS did not invent the term "arse end".

True! One of DS's clients/buyers did it actually. Oops ...:lol:

AltinD

December 22nd, 2007, 11:23 PM

... it started with AlMillion years ago before they even dug the hole (he left 'cos of the flack)...

AIMillion didn't had anything with DS. His problem was with a much taller tower blocking most of his penthouse's sea view, regardless of who was behind that project. ;)

i love dubai

December 23rd, 2007, 12:20 AM

See what I mean, the forum is full of them, blindly defending their employer :yes:

Naz UK

December 23rd, 2007, 11:41 AM

I did not invent the term "arse-end", but I did invent it's use in the context of Dubai Marina. In case anyone is having a problem locating the "arse-end" of Dubai Marina, its in the region where the Jewels Twin Towers are. :runaway:

PAULDELVES

December 23rd, 2007, 12:11 PM

Naz - I have to disagree with you there I think "a*** end" is certainly not a term to be associated with "The Jewels" been around earlier to invest in "The Jewels" it looks like one of the "coolest" projects on the marina
I have the same opinion of Botanica (address is amaazing next to GH and near the new hotels to be built)
I suspect that many will disagree with me but I am going to look at buying into Botanica even if it is abit pricey at present .

Naz UK

December 23rd, 2007, 01:50 PM

I agree Paul, The Jewels are two amazing buildings and amongst my favourites on the Marina. Unfortunately, they just happen to be at the "arse-end" of the Marina, named such due to its close proximity to the heavy industrial end, e.g. desalination plant, power lines and a few very mediocre buildings. :)

Tractor

December 23rd, 2007, 02:47 PM

Has anyone coined the phrases: 'chav-end', 'chav area', 'chav town' or specifically 'chav tower' in the marina?

There will be a high-concentration of non-status credit, anti-social behaviour, pregnancy out of marriage and questionable taste!

Its only a matter of time ...
:lol::lol::lol:

True Blue

December 23rd, 2007, 03:39 PM

:drunk:Christmas wouldn't be the same without the annual bun fight on the Torch thread :lol:

:cheers1:Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Everyone. :laugh: :cheers2:

PAULDELVES

December 23rd, 2007, 04:41 PM

Naz - sorry misunderstood you mate - but uinderstand your meaning now - LOL !
I will be over in 2 days to check out the torch build ?? I hope to be impressed

Dubai_Steve

December 23rd, 2007, 05:24 PM

:drunk:Christmas wouldn't be the same without the annual bun fight on the Torch thread :lol:

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0074.gif

:drunk: Merry Christmas

mackie1964

December 23rd, 2007, 05:52 PM

Yes Merry Christmas and happy New Year to every one and their family even to Paul Taylor (was that his name? can't remember) who promised to have the Torch Keys this Christmas, I wonder where he is now :lol:

We could have had the Christmas Party by the pool deck.........thinking about it, may be we still can, I've got enough safety gear for every body :lol:

Its Party Time :banana::drunk::dance:

All the best :cheers:

Hollie Maea

December 24th, 2007, 12:58 AM

The Jewels are two amazing buildings and amongst my favourites on the Marina. Unfortunately, they just happen to be at the "arse-end" of the Marina, named such due to its close proximity to the heavy industrial end, e.g. desalination plant, power lines and a few very mediocre buildings. :)

Of course if they rip out the desalinization plant and fill the area with some planned district around Al Burj, suddenly The Jewels would be a lot better. Not saying that is what they will do, but if they did someone would make a lot of money in increased value for all of the buildings on that end.

rexdmx

December 24th, 2007, 12:04 PM

^^ desalination plants take ages to de commission ;)

PS: Merry christmas to all !!! already bought my presents

Hollie Maea

December 24th, 2007, 05:20 PM

^^ I wasn't implying that someone would be making a quick buck in a year or so...over time.

i love dubai

December 24th, 2007, 07:51 PM

If the location of Al Burj is confirmed then you will here the announcement of the decomissioning of the plant. Without such an annoucement it will not be possible to sell units in THE WORLD TALLEST BUILDING OVERLOOKING A POWER PLANT.:doh:

Tractor

December 24th, 2007, 08:34 PM

Concrete is being poured to finish top-floor of the podium tonight!

High Times

December 24th, 2007, 08:40 PM

^^

About F**king time, a Christmas present from DS/SP :banana:

Hey Tractor any chance of a pic of the action ?

Tractor

December 25th, 2007, 12:34 PM

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_13gr75zvf8

Tractor

December 25th, 2007, 12:36 PM

An interesting observation is the shiny silver strips are about twice as dense on the right of the podium (where the pool is?) than on the left (now covered by concrete).

I think True Blue said these provide compression on the concrete to make it stronger, so I guess this is to carry the weight of the pool!

I guess the right side will be done tonight/tomorrow.

High Times

December 25th, 2007, 01:11 PM

Tractor,

Thanks for the pic and your comments, your a true gent. :applause:

Merry Christmas to all the Torch investors, watchers, and future residents.

Lets hope 2008 brings quicker progress now the floors will be considerably smaller and less complicated to duplicate.

:cheers:

rgarrison

December 25th, 2007, 11:29 PM

Nice pics tractor. Yes The increased reinforcing is to increase tensile strength (not compression) to support the extra weight of the pool.
Merry Christmas everyone!

True Blue

December 26th, 2007, 12:23 AM

Tractor was referring to the post stressing system which does induce a compressive force that has the effect of strengthening the slab. Passive reinforcement in the bottom mat does resist the tensile loads so you are both correct, just talking about different things.

Anjam

December 27th, 2007, 03:04 AM

Thanks for the picture Tractor.
I don't think it is going to be hard to decide the winner of my "Guess the Floor" competition :cheer:

Hope everyone had a great Christmas.

Tractor

December 27th, 2007, 07:30 AM

Podium is now complete apart from a small section above the car park ramps. Can now make out the shape of the pool (rebar sticking out of the concrete) & they've moved an office shed onto the podium.

mackie1964

December 27th, 2007, 09:29 AM

Many thanks Tractor
All the best for the New Year. :cheers:

Gorilla

December 27th, 2007, 05:11 PM

Salameer

December 29th, 2007, 02:18 PM

yecabel

December 29th, 2007, 03:03 PM

loads of u point out that PT will be ready before TT.

well it seems to me that the PT is quite smaller in size (not height) when comparing the 2towers in the pic few posts above.

nevertheless, TT progress is moving at a very slow pace, and the developer needs a wake up call.

and i hope that as the podium level has now been reached, hopefully the core will rise faster that what we have seen up to now.

i wish to all skyscrapercity forumers, a very prosperous and happy 2008.

High Times

December 29th, 2007, 03:22 PM

end 2005 tower launch complete
end 2006 piling and groundwork complete
end 2007 basement and podium complete
end 2008 40 residential floors complete
end 2009 80 resdentialfloors complete
end 2010 tower internal fittig finished

Jan-Jun 2011 handover

most likely scenarios barring any major disastor

Wow, and i thought i was MR PESSEMISTIC.

With podium complete (now end 2007).

If you think about all the labourforce that the podium construction has taken up (due to size of podium), thats a lot of people that can now concentrate on the much smaller floorplan going up from here, also less materiels needed to cut and paste the smaller floorplan.

75 floors to go to top out now.
365 days divided by 75 floors = 4.86 (5 days)

If we allow a 7 day per floor scenario thats 18 months from here to top out.

So if its possible to do a core jump every 5 days and follow up with the floorplate then end of 2008 or jan/feb 2009 is possble to top out. (True Blue help me out here, i appreciate your honest comments) :)

The question is will DS start to push DCE to get the job done. With so many other projects DS have now committed to i doubt it. but we will have to see.

Once we are at floor 10 this should be a good indication of the progrss we can expect as an accurate average can be gauged.

mackie1964

December 29th, 2007, 08:27 PM

^^Gorilla is not that far out.

Here is the most optimistic scenario:

The next few floors (say 4 0r 5) will take approx 10 days each (7 weeks)
70 more complete floors at 7 days each (70 weeks).
Topping the tower, best case (casting the feature & install electronics off sit), 2/4 weeks.
M&E installation and commissioning 18 to 24 months with 6 to 9 months staggered into construction, 70 to 78 weeks.
F****ing about + (Hot Weather + Ramadan + Eid + Xmas)*2, 16 to 24 weeks.
Inspections, connections and certification 8 to 12 weeks.
Snagging and modifications 4 to 8 weeks.
Start of handover : you do the Math.

But what do I know, I 've given up on this one. :cheers:

Morrismarina

December 29th, 2007, 09:48 PM

foxy

December 29th, 2007, 10:02 PM

Is anyone bothered if they stop after the 11th floor and have a rooftop garden instead. Should then easily make the schedule.

jeetha

December 29th, 2007, 11:23 PM

^^Yes! Good idea. Wasn’t Morris on the 12th floor?:lol:

Blizzy

December 30th, 2007, 12:07 AM

Rooftop Garden sounds good. Plus it would be a nice gift to all the purchasers of Marina Pinnacle, MAG 218, etc., offering them a glimpse of the marina. Would boost prices in those towers. Not that these are gonna be finished by 2010, or something, though.

High Times

December 30th, 2007, 12:46 AM

I wouldnt go out and buy your wellies and Black and Decker strimmer just yet.

Dubai_Steve

December 30th, 2007, 12:47 AM

Is anyone bothered if they stop after the 11th floor and have a rooftop garden instead. Should then easily make the schedule.

Not sure if I want to share my bed with Morris and Naz and 4 others.

AltinD

December 30th, 2007, 12:41 PM

^^ You're on the 12th floor also? :D

Morrismarina

December 30th, 2007, 01:35 PM

I'm upset that nobody wants to share with me, I'm very clean and presentable............ I always tuck my shirt in.:lol:

AltinD

December 30th, 2007, 05:16 PM

^^ That last one will certainly struck a cord with Naz. :D

Dubai_Steve

December 30th, 2007, 09:12 PM

Will DCE be attending this year ?

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_pressreleases&view=detail&pr_id=10530&Itemid=77&ln=en

AltinD

December 30th, 2007, 11:40 PM

^^ Steve, from the link I get this: "... Global Dubai Tea Forum 2008 to reinforce Dubai’s role as international tea hub ..."

... or maybe you mean they will be joining ZUBLIN for a tea break overthere? :D

Dubai_Steve

December 31st, 2007, 12:59 AM

^^ Yes tea break :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2036/2148926258_f748d1e439_b.jpg

Imre

December 31st, 2007, 07:26 AM

nice girl:)

High Times

December 31st, 2007, 01:01 PM

Steve,

I see you have had the new Ray Ban covert camera slyfox P1C's for Christmas this year.

Very nice :cool:

AltinD

December 31st, 2007, 05:08 PM

nice girl:)

Remember when you were saying the same in another thread and was even ilustrating it with their pictures ... and the father of one of those girls was posting in there? :D

Imre

December 31st, 2007, 05:15 PM

yes, at the Millenium Tower , nice Emirates cabin crew staff :lol::lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=126618&page=25

I posted a pic and jb62 :

"thank you for that, one of those pictures my daughter and her friend are in! The building looks wonderful."

Anyway this girl is Dubai Steve's doughter?:)

Dubai_Steve

December 31st, 2007, 08:15 PM

Hey, she is not my daughter, I am not that old. :bash:

foxy

December 31st, 2007, 09:59 PM

She must be Dubai Steves assistant. You know someone to carry the camera, the bags and generally walk 2 steps behind her man.
Imre take note of the sepia like effect.. the mans an artist.

And Happy New Year to all. Party Time now.. :banana: :cheers::cheers:

rgarrison

January 1st, 2008, 09:07 AM

happy new year every one :cheers:

Morrismarina

January 1st, 2008, 03:27 PM

Looking at the OH thread it seems from the latest post there that MAG cannot meet the escrow terms on their developments (including Mag 218) and have had to be exempted. On a positive note it is nice to know that Select have done so on the Torch, Point and Bay Central. So all SP investors are protected. Well done SP. :applause:

shaffar

January 1st, 2008, 03:34 PM

happy new year to all :cheers1:

AltinD

January 1st, 2008, 06:30 PM

Hey, she is not my daughter, I am not that old. :bash:

Yes you are ... at least compared to a certain forumer who lately is often wearing a tall hat. :D

High Times

January 2nd, 2008, 09:24 PM

No december update from DS/SP/PC (LLC) (OF)

Lazy Bas**rds.

I suppose they will use the old Christmas and New Year excuse.

In a muslim country where all the workers are hindus and muslims too. :ohno:

AltinD

January 3rd, 2008, 08:08 PM

I think someone was asking about DCE's work quality in their Emaar projects. Here's what people who have visited Marina Quay had to say:

Regarding to all Quays West owners:

We have been inside the building few days ago, there was no "European standard" like what we bought. There is no hightec and no luxery. The tiles in the bathroom are 15X15 cm, white coloured and from the ground to the ceiling. The slaughtering houses in Germany look the same. The bathtube is thin and short, all together it looks like the low cost housing in Germany.

Some floortiles which are already in the apartments are already broken, what kind of working procedures is that? The working steps are totally crazy, how can you first finish the floor and then starting with the A/C work on the ceiling..

I saw the Marina Quays and Park Island site yesterday and I would say that the DCE makes really bad quality there..

Almost every stone panel (which they use for the cladding) cracked or chipped , I think the Emaar should controll that job otherwise the snagging will take for ages.

Dubai_Steve

January 3rd, 2008, 08:21 PM

Yes thank god the Torch is not an Emaar project, otherwise they may have choosen tiles like this from Marina Quays! At least we know that the choice of Tiles in the Torch is of very high quality from a UK company.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7702/pict3843ex9.jpg

AltinD

January 3rd, 2008, 08:22 PM

^^ What about the rest of Ossi's post? What about Imre's post?

Dubai_Steve

January 3rd, 2008, 08:27 PM

Can all be fixed later in the snagging I guess. Just proves the point that DCE are overstretched and working too quickly without care or structured working procedures. They must be trying to meet deadlines and then coming back to fix the work later.

mackie1964

January 3rd, 2008, 08:35 PM

The Problem is not just a bad workmanship. It is bad supervision and management also, I met many of their so called consultants that go around all of their buildings and they have not got a clue :ohno:

I hope that the Torch is nothing like this

@Steve;

Stop winding me up, I want to stop moaning in 2008 :lol:

yecabel

January 4th, 2008, 01:27 AM

ossi and imre comments made me worried.
how on earth can they allow finishings such as those in steve's picture? this is disgraceful. i thought emaar had a completely different vision.

SP must ensure that this doesnt happen in TT. how long before The Point is ready for inspection? at least then we can get an idea about SP real commitment to those luxury standards so loundly used in their sales pitches.

AITU

January 4th, 2008, 09:05 AM

I was speaking to a QS from one of Emaar's main contractors the other day (not DCE). He said that virtually all internal trimmings are sourced from China now - with the exception of some floor tiles

Naz UK

January 4th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Even Donald Trump Jnr said in a recent interview with AB that he thought the interiors of Dubai's "luxury" apartments was inferior compared to, er, comparable properties world-wide, so i think its a wider problem than just DCE or Emaar for that matter. It's gona get worse of material costs continue to spiral out of control.

Is China's existence necessary in the world today? :dunno: Just a thought.

Imre

January 4th, 2008, 11:31 AM

04/January/2008

The Torch

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5585/imresolt071ja9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1756/imresolt076hi8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7215/imresolt115uq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/16/imresolt116cy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

High Times

January 4th, 2008, 11:38 AM

FWIW

January 4th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Is China's existence necessary in the world today? :dunno: Just a thought.

^^

Is YOUR existence necessary in the world today? :dunno: Just a thought.

Naz UK

January 4th, 2008, 03:36 PM

That's not fair, I didn't captialise "China". :bash:

Gorilla

January 4th, 2008, 04:23 PM

That's not fair, I didn't captialise "China". :bash:

no wonder you clocked up 2719 post in one year :lol:

shaffar

January 4th, 2008, 06:00 PM

Wow look at the Princess rising up :bash:[/QUOTE]

first thing i saw.

High Times

January 4th, 2008, 06:16 PM

Without wanting to state the blinding obvious.

Would it be fair to say that they are now preparing to pour the concrete core for residential floor 3 ?

Dubai_Steve

January 4th, 2008, 06:42 PM

Is it possible to make out the shape of the pool now from above ?

Photos from MH would be great.

Anjam

January 5th, 2008, 02:09 AM

Remember this guys?? :lol:

How wrong were we??

7 Jeetha
8 Shaffar
9 Morrismarina
10 High Times
11 Joannides
12 True Blue
13 Scoot68
14 Anjam
15 Chefdude
16 mackie1964
17 Sheltie
18 Rexdmx
19 agod
20 Tag_One
56 Naz UK

Well Done Jeetha, looks like your the 2007 Torch Construction Guru! Only 4 floors out.

Let me have your Paypal address by pm or nominate a charity that takes online donations.

PAULDELVES

January 5th, 2008, 11:42 AM

Thanks Imre and congratulations for winning Forumer of the year for UAE.

Well deserved as IMO without you this forum would not be worth looking at. :cheers:

Wow look at the Princess rising up :bash:

HT - I would also offer congrats to IMRE for his pics they are brilliant
Just one point on the PRINCESS though -having just returned from Dubai and walked the area around the Torch - it seems to me that the podium on the PRINCESS is considerably SMALLER than the TORCH ? as is the CORE of the PRINCESS that SEEMS ? to be moving upwards very fast ? - whereas I am as SCEPTICAL of DS as many others I think TAMEER are probaly just as bad ! certainly their sales techniques includes total lies (unfortunately from personal experience !)
Its Horrible being back in UK !

jeetha

January 5th, 2008, 11:46 AM

High Times

January 5th, 2008, 12:54 PM

^^

I knew it! ...... was going to guess 4…. but was being polite.

Yes….. Send payments to “China Tiles” c/o Emaar.
:lol:

Well done jeetha, just a bit of speculative fun i know, but hey good guess anyway. :cheers:

I can't believe the chairman of the Select Property fan club "floor 12" what were you thinking ? :lol:

Anjam

January 5th, 2008, 01:52 PM

I knew it! ...... was going to guess 4…. but was being polite.

Yes….. Send payments to “China Tiles” c/o Emaar.
:lol:

^^The cheque would double their annual turnover:lol:

Tractor

January 6th, 2008, 07:42 AM

First floor of the tower finished! :banana:

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_15db6qccdf

Dubai_Steve

January 6th, 2008, 09:04 AM

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0009.gif Amazing!

The pool looks great, nice and big!

You can also imagine the apartment sizes compared to the people.

Thanks for the photo Tractor.

High Times

January 6th, 2008, 12:38 PM

mackie1964

January 6th, 2008, 12:53 PM

Many thanks Tractor. The pool seems to be a good size :)

PAULDELVES

January 6th, 2008, 01:11 PM

Thanks Tractor, great picture.

Nice to see the shape of the pool too, look bigger than most iv'e seen in the Marina, especially length wise anyway.

Could 2008 be the Asian year of the Torch ?

One down, 75 to go. High Times is happy - :):):):):) HT I agree TT ia starting move -- 1 floor a week (like new habtoor tower by habtor grand) and will see a late 2009 finish ? and pic from Tractor is brilliant - what is going to be on the left hand side of the podium there seems awful lot of room there also

Morrismarina

January 6th, 2008, 01:26 PM

HT I agree TT ia starting move -- 1 floor a week (like new habtoor tower by habtor grand) and will see a late 2009 finish ? and pic from Tractor is brilliant - what is going to be on the left hand side of the podium there seems awful lot of room there also

The left side is the barbeque area.

Great photo, thanks Tractor. :banana:

High Times

January 6th, 2008, 02:09 PM

Original photo courtesy of Tractor, with thanks. :)

We can now see how the scale of the health/barbecue deck will look.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6011/torch1stfloorqp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AltinD

January 6th, 2008, 03:12 PM

The pool is indeed big, unlike the one in ... Princess tower.

High Times

January 6th, 2008, 04:59 PM

Using a scale drawing i have of the 3 beds in relation to the floorplate.

I reckon the length of the pool is about 25 meters.

yecabel

January 7th, 2008, 12:41 AM

tractor,
many thanks for the pic, you have made my day.

smshah

January 7th, 2008, 01:40 AM

the barbecue deck is mine! i want it! i want it.! No barbecues for u lot.!!

lol ha haha

Anjam

January 7th, 2008, 02:04 AM

Great update Tractor :applause:
Amazing how a single photo has changed our sentiment. After seeing it many investors would have quickly removed the noose from around their necks and got off the table:lol:

A good way to start the year and hopefully it will continue to be a positive one.

Great sized pool and deck area. One question about the pool, will be raised above ground level? If it was completly below gorund then that hole would have taken up half of the car park level below it.

Anjam

January 7th, 2008, 02:09 AM

On further inspection it looks like it will be raised considerably, there is rebar sticking out of it. Not sure how much the rest of the floor will be raised.

rgarrison

January 7th, 2008, 07:03 AM

Awsome. You can finally see the shape of the tower.

rexdmx

January 7th, 2008, 10:32 AM

the pool does look like a bottle of coke!! nice pic..really put it on in perspective

Sheltie

January 7th, 2008, 10:57 AM

Thanks, Tractor and High Times, nice start to the year.

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 02:27 PM

I would not get so excited, still 2011 minimum :nuts:

Dubai_Steve

January 7th, 2008, 05:48 PM

2010 should be possible. 30 or 40 floors this year, topped out end of 2009 and then completed, handed over and snagged in 2010.

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 05:58 PM

^^ show me the money; let us have a little wager :banana:

AltinD

January 7th, 2008, 06:11 PM

Yes Steve, put your money where the mouth is ... I already have an open bet with Morris

Dubai_Steve

January 7th, 2008, 06:11 PM

OK mackie1964, £100 says hand over before 2011

http://www.rampantscotland.com/SCM/rbs100.jpg

AltinD

January 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM

^^ Will you two be putting those GBP 200 on an escrow-type account? :dunno:

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 06:14 PM

^^ Done :banana:

Does anybody know what I can buy with AED 600 in the year 2011 :lol:

High Times

January 7th, 2008, 06:14 PM

I agree Steve,

My money is on 3rd quarter 2010. Any earlier would be a major surprise to me.

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 06:16 PM

^^ Are you in as well?

Dubai_Steve

January 7th, 2008, 06:25 PM

^^ Maybe you can also have a wager with the DS staff about their September 2009 hand over date. :lol:

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 06:28 PM

How do you know that I have not done so already :banana:

No, they are not that stupid, I have tried, you can hear me on one of the videos trying I think :lol:

One of the sales guys was telling me that they can do a floor every 4 days,...........Yeh right.

I have got to recover my losses somehow :lol:

The words, Candy and Baby come to mind :banana:

The AED will be 6.23999999 to £ and you can recover you money back that way :lol:

HateTorch

January 7th, 2008, 07:40 PM

the pool does look like a bottle of coke!! nice pic..really put it on in perspective

The pool look like a bowling pin to me. The Princess and Torch will block out 50% of my "sea view". Hopefully I (or the new tenant) will get compensated with a nice pool view instead ...

High Times

January 7th, 2008, 08:01 PM

^^ Are you in as well?

Yes Mackie, if your feeling rich today. :)

I'll have £100 with you that handover of the Torch is completed by 31st December 2010. IF it's not, your £100 will be paid by DS compenstion.

Sounds like win win to me. :lol:

High Times

January 7th, 2008, 08:13 PM

The pool look like a bowling pin to me. The Princess and Torch will block out 50% of my "sea view". Hopefully I (or the new tenant) will get compensated with a nice pool view instead ...

Your TPV (Torch Pool View) will be more than worth it when i rent it to Jordan (ex page 3, and loaded cover babe), especially when she bends down to splash her babies:wink2: in the spa.

Naz UK

January 7th, 2008, 08:16 PM

^^ :puke:

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 08:49 PM

I am sure that I saw a documentary showing them buying in Dubai, I think it was in Le Reve. We don't want any of this rough crowd in this end of the Marina, send them to the Scottish end :lol:

Dubai_Steve

January 7th, 2008, 09:07 PM

^^ :lol: Yes Katie Price loves Dubai, she has bought in the Marina.

Here she is, pregnant on the beach.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2959/jordanmh5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Imre

January 7th, 2008, 10:51 PM

be careful because True Blue coming back soon:)

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 11:02 PM

I am only looking after him, sending nice girls down his end........honest :lol:

What do you think Imre? 2010 or 2011?

Did you like his flat?

Imre

January 7th, 2008, 11:08 PM

Yes, his flat is very nice, finishing is good.

I would say not before than 2011.

mackie1964

January 7th, 2008, 11:14 PM

Ok, You start thinking of ways to spend Steve's money when we get it, Barasti or Bar 44 :cheers:

foxy

January 8th, 2008, 12:27 AM

Mackie

Can I have a slice of your wager?

I had a recent conversation with DS where they stood by Sept 09. I asked for a wager with Mark Stott.. nothing doing.

3 years is a long time and I am feeling lucky.

High Times

January 8th, 2008, 12:31 AM

^^
Mackie

Can I have a slice of your wager?

I had a recent conversation with DS where they stood by Sept 09. I asked for a wager with Mark Stott.. nothing doing.

3 years is a long time and I am feeling lucky.

The Torch will be topped out by Sept 2009.

A year to finish snagg and handover.

30 seconds to spend Mackie's £100 on 2 bottles of Bollinger reserve :cheers:

Dubai_Steve

January 8th, 2008, 04:19 AM

So the plan was accurate.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5328/plansd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6236/deckzm4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The 3 squares on the right must be to hold the palm trees :)

High Times

January 8th, 2008, 11:16 AM

^^

Wow, it's almost like there working to some kind of plan or schedule or something...............

mackie1964

January 8th, 2008, 11:26 AM

^^

The next few floors (say 4 0r 5) will take approx 10 days each (7 weeks)
70 more complete floors at 7 days each (70 weeks).
Topping the tower, best case (casting the feature & install electronics off sit), (2/4 weeks) to install it and commission it on site.
Internals, M&E installation and commissioning 18 to 24 months with 6 to 9 months staggered into construction, (70 to 78 weeks).
F****ing about + (Hot Weather + Ramadan + Eid + Xmas)*2, (16 to 24 weeks).
Inspections, connections and certification (8 to 12 weeks).
Snagging and modifications (4 to 8 weeks). :cheers:

Not taking into account the hundreds of laws that will be introduced in Dubai from now until 2011.

@Steve; Why don’t you just hand the money over.

@ Foxy; My bet with Steve is for hand over of our keys.

And borrowing TrueBlue's words, This building has got 2011 written all over it

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=14713499&postcount=1289

And I forgot to mention, when The Point and Bay Central start shouting soon, they will move the workers there for a while. Your only Chance Steve is the millions of Chinese that we hear about arriving but even considering this it is no longer doable while maintaining a decent level of quality.