I have just spent the last 30 mins on the phone to BH in Dubai.

Spoke to a sales manager called Penny Higgins.


She said that BH have been asked to advise a non disclosed developer what would sell well in the Marina at the moment. BH will be acting as consultants on the projects.

When i mentioned what i know from this forum she put her hand over the phone, gigled, went quiet for a couple of minites and came back to me and said no no thats not right.

She said that there are 2 buildings which will be launched within 2-4 weeks.

No confirmed heights yet.

When i asked exactly where they will be built her words were they will definately be built infront of Marina Heights.

Imre i'm not doubting you for a second here mate, but i think this whole thing smells of a publicity stunt for BH.

Who sent you the info today ?
Do you know them personaly or are you just on a mailing list like me?

I have always thought that when these towers are eventully launched it would be in style at some kind of exibition like marina arcade was, not by a rental agency company (a very amatuer one at that).

I am expecting the worse here. The 3 towers that malec posted will go where Imre said. That way i cant be dissapointed AGAIN.


I also spoke to penny higgins she also giggled and said the same thing to me. its strange at how they told imre how many floors it will be and not anyone else

actually i received an offer for 1.6, i turned it down

Send them my way

bastard ds im getting my money back in december 08. why the f*** would be 30 k extra for a view which has a 100 floor tower in my face.

And also looking at the towers in the supertall, this kebab doesnt exactly blend in with the res of the buildings in this district.

bastard ds im getting my money back in december 08. why the f*** would be 30 k extra for a view which has a 100 floor tower in my face.

And also looking at the towers in the supertall, this kebab doesnt exactly blend in with the res of the buildings in this district.

^^smshah you remind me of George Khan (Om Puri) from East is East :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA_O9bZxzpA&feature=related

^^ just seen the video, its cracking me up. great film east is east

now lets get back to bastard DS

COME ON RESEARCH FIND THE FUCKER BUILDING!

excuse my french im a bit angry at the moment, hope u understand investors.

bastard ds

It will have to be a mini kebab because there is supposed to be a height restriction on this plot.

Point proven.

Setting the building closer to the side road would at lease have given sea facing apartments a decent view.

How about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmD2wkQkhnE&feature=related


Sorry Smshah coudn't help it! :lol:

It will have to be a mini kebab because there is supposed to be a height restriction on this plot.

where have u heard about this height restriction? what do u think about this plot?

smshah, please don,t worry about views. I have 2 units with no views at all and looking to invest in another one, just think of the Torch location in the heart of the marina, me an you will be laughing next year when our units are worth at least 4k/sq ft.:cheers:

bay central customers have a guarantee that nothing will be built infront of there marina views!! wonder when its built whos views will it also block..

^^

Woolworths has a 14 day money back guarantee or the equivilent in gift vouchers.

where have u heard about this height restriction? what do u think about this plot?

I think we will get a BMG supertall between MH + TT and then the 28 floor MarinaView project infront.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5513/marinaviewum5.jpg

The other BMG towers of 90 + 100 + 100 floors will go in the area close to the hard rock cafe.

Since BMG probably will do all of these, it is possible that they are currently deciding which tower should go where right now and this has confused better homes.

AltinD mentioned there was a height restiction on the plot in front of TT so the MarinaView develoment is more likely for that plot.

It also fits better in that area and with the villas and shops that are part of that development suits the plot much better and will sell very well at high prices to exclusive buyers.

I think the infamous kebab towers are just an imaginary tower found on a CAD / 3D design forum by malec.

I don't think that there is a height restriction on this plot but I hope your theory is correct. :nuts:

If there was a height restriction in place from whoever has the authority to do so "Emaar" or the "Big Man himself".

DS/SP/would have had it on their website, contract, compliments slips, letterheaded paper, calander, project boards, e-mails, christmas cards and toilet paper.

Current summary of the proposed Dubai Marina towers by BMG

MarinaView (Retail/Residence/Villas - 2 x 28 floors)
PLOT SIZE 90.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 120.000.000 AED

MarinaCube (Service Apartments - 75 floors)
PLOT SIZE 38.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 180.000.000 AED

Swarowski-Tower (Residential - 60 floors)
PLOT SIZE 27.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 110.000.000 AED

Marina Crystal (Service Apartments - 94 floors)
PLOT SIZE 38.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 180.000.000 AED

Where could this marina plot be, huge size of 90,000 ft2 but a lower cost of only 120m. If it is the emaar plot then there must be a height restriction, therefore the lower price.

^^

Indeed if this land has been purchased then it is at a considerably lower price than the others which are all in the same ball park. Also where else would a 28 floor tower get a marina view

MarinaView (Retail/Residence/Villas - 2 x 28 floors)
PLOT SIZE 90.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 120.000.000 AED
THIS EQUATES TO 1333 psf

MarinaCube (Service Apartments - 75 floors)
PLOT SIZE 38.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 180.000.000 AED
THIS EQUATES TO 4736 psf

Swarowski-Tower (Residential - 60 floors)
PLOT SIZE 27.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 110.000.000 AED
THIS EQUATES TO 4074 psf

Marina Crystal (Service Apartments - 94 floors)
PLOT SIZE 38.000 ft²
COST OF LAND 180.000.000 AED
THIS EQUATES TO 4736 psf

Are there any other marina view plots of 90,000 ft2 in the marina? at the scottish end maybe ?

If there is a height restriction, you would expect the price to be lower per sqft. :dunno:

Well the other option is Swarowski between TT & MH, the smaller plot and MarinaCube and Marina Crystal infront of TT & MH. Then MarinaView in some other large but cheaper 90,000 ft2 plot on the marina.

Do we have a maths expert who can calculate the sq footage of the Emaar plot from the photos ? :D

it should be total selable sq foot so the higher the tower more sq foot

so the above makes sense

@Steve;

If you know the Torch area, you can approximate the others (1.2 for the one between MH & TT & 3.6 for the one upfront) :dunno:

got today:)

Dear ...,

As I see the map, the location is the old Emaar Sales
centre plot?
Front of the Marina Heights and the Torch Towers?

Best regards,

Imre

...........


Dear Mr. Imre

Exactly yes It is

Regards

I never doubted your information / sources Mate :cheers:

Thanks for the upate Imre, but they do not say what the project will be, they did not send you the further details as promised yet. 2 or 3 towers I still think they are confused. They told some other people 2 towers which fits in with the BMG Marina View project.

Do we have a maths expert who can calculate the sq footage of the Emaar plot from the photos ? :D

I have posted on Emmar plots thread

:cry: I give up.

Imre, did you meet Conrad?

hopefully tomorrow:)

Just to briefly cheer people up: 5th floor of tower now being poured.

Many thanks Tractor. :cheers:


.................the only post on the TT thread over the last two days not to contain 100% bullshit.

Many thanks Tractor. :cheers:


.................the only post on the TT thread over the last two days not to contain 100% bullshit.

Oi;

Mine was only 94.5% if you don't mind :lol::banana::banana:

Imre, did you meet Conrad?
hopefully tomorrow:)

Will he bring along his grand niece Paris? :D


AltinD mentioned there was a height restiction on the plot in front of TT ...

I have never said that; I can't know/get such informations. :)

hopefully tomorrow:)

Hi Imre

I trust you are in the know and would not be misled by scams. Nothing has ever suggested otherwise and you have always been a wellinformed, major contributor to this thread.

Have you heard any further information re this new tower project and whether it is going to be down at Hard Rock area or in front of TT?

Looking at the overall plan of the marina, I fail to see where else it could be but in front of TT, and sort of makes sense to have a premier build at the head of the marina, in true EMAAR style.

I have not heard of a height restriction around TT area 10. Not in any contract I have seen? Could anyone clarify whether there is, or isn't such a restriction - officially?


Regards

Da Torch

Hi Imre

I trust you are in the know and would not be misled by scams. Nothing has ever suggested otherwise and you have always been a wellinformed, major contributor to this thread.

Have you heard any further information re this new tower project and whether it is going to be down at Hard Rock area or in front of TT?

Looking at the overall plan of the marina, I fail to see where else it could be but in front of TT, and sort of makes sense to have a premier build at the head of the marina, in true EMAAR style.

I have not heard of a height restriction around TT area 10. Not in any contract I have seen? Could anyone clarify whether there is, or isn't such a restriction - officially?


Regards

Da Torch

For f@@k sake why doesn't everybody post all this stuff in the appropriate thread which was specifically set up for this purpose so as not to jam the Torch thread will all this crap. :bash:

In case anybody doesn't know where it is, it's here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=438699&page=27

Surely the moderators should be sorting this out. :ohno:

Back on the DS books are we :lol:

For f@@k sake why doesn't everybody post all this stuff in the appropriate thread which was specifically set up for this purpose so as not to jam the Torch thread will all this crap. :bash:

In case anybody doesn't know where it is, it's here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=438699&page=27

Surely the moderators should be sorting this out..............thinking about it though, they're the cause of most of it. :ohno:

With respect Mr Marina, I think this is very relevant to this thread and I don't think that what I have asked is in any way crap. I am seeking build information relevant to TT plot, that will affect TT aspect and position on the marina. What is crap about that dumbo, other than it may affect your "sales":bash:

Da Torch

With respect Mr Marina, I think this is very relevant to this thread and I don't think that what I have asked is in any way crap. I am seeking build information relevant to TT plot, that will affect TT aspect and position on the marina. What is crap about that dumbo, other than it may affect your "sales":bash:

Da Torch

Of course it relevant, very relevant, that's why we set up a separate bloody thread for it. So post in the correct thread, what is wrong with me asking you to do this ??

Back on the DS books are we :lol:


:weird:

All I'm asking Mackie is for people to post this stuff in the correct thread, that's all.

Of course it relevant, very relevant, that's why we set up a separate bloody thread for it. So post in the correct thread, what is wrong with me asking you to do this ??

Is this not the thread for the posting of build/construction type information relevant to TT Mr Marina?

If not, sorry, I misunderstood the purpose of this thread :ohno:

:weird:

All I'm asking Mackie is for people to post this stuff in the correct thread, that's all.

I know, I am only teasing you :banana:

I know, I am only teasing you :banana:

Yeah I know........sorry to TheTorch if I'm comming over very stroppy I've had a real bad couple of days at work, bloody nightmare..........I'll try to chill out now. :grouphug:

Don't worry 2011 is not far away now :)

Yes and I will be able to buy you a drink with Steve's money. By the time 2011 comes a bear could be more than £100 the way the inflation is going in the UAE. :lol: :cheers:

a bear or a beer? LOL

Yes and I will be able to buy you a drink with Steve's money. By the time 2011 comes a bear could be more than £100 the way the inflation is going in the UAE. :lol: :cheers:

Thanks Mackie.......but will they let me keep a bear in my Torch apartment ?? It's only a one bed so I'm gonna have to fight him for the bedroom. :lol:

Haven’t you heard of the Manchester Bear Beer, it's great. One day it will come to Dubai.........soon :lol::banana::cheers::cheers:

Well we know everything Imre touches turns to gold :lol:

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/12December/Burj_Dubai-121437.jpg

Yes, I do wonder if he has anything to do with the 30% inflation in UAE. :dunno:

I met this famous Bear, he has the best seat in Imre's car :lol:

If not just grin and "bear" it

http://i29.tinypic.com/aeazpv.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/kdlxf6.jpg

:lol:

Thanks Mackie.......but will they let me keep a bear in my Torch apartment ?? It's only a one bed so I'm gonna have to fight him for the bedroom. :lol:

If it goes Steve's (wishful) ways you can just let the bear roam free on the dense forest in front of the tower. :banana:


So have they started the columns for the next floor yet?

If it goes Steve's (wishful) ways you can just let the bear roam free on the dense forest in front of the tower. :banana:



:laugh:

:yes:

http://www.premierholidays.co.uk/__data/assets/image/0005/74750/varieties/ph_hotel_page.jpg

Yeah I know........sorry to TheTorch if I'm comming over very stroppy I've had a real bad couple of days at work, bloody nightmare..........I'll try to chill out now. :grouphug:

Hi Morrismarina

Apology accepted:grouphug:

I think we're all a little on edge at the mo.

I need another fix - another construction update picture - next floor must be near!

Would love to see TT up to floor 20 by end of May. What you think guys - possible? I reckon they are going at about a floor every 10 days at the moment, but with office infrastructure in he basement, organisation should improve, build should speed up surely.

Da Torch

It really needs to speed up or I don't even want to think when handover will be(1 floor every 10 days = 800 days, that's not taking into account delays, finishings etc.)

07/March/2008

The Torch

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3118/imresolt138sh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9654/imresolt139jq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8189/imresolt144bg5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7371/imresolt145ve0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3826/imresolt146xw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/803/imresolt147md4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3048/imresolt148oa4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nice To see the floor numbers going on - number 9 now - I hope they reach my apt. floor (71)by May next year - at this rate and with relatively small floor areas it is feasible

How are they counting the 9 floors? I make it the 11th Floor above ground or the 6th floor above the Podium?

^^

With rose coloured sunglasses.

What they are displaying as floor 9 is Residential floor 4.

Floor 5 = Health Deck
Floor 6 = Residential 1
Floor 7 = Residential 2
Floor 8 = Residential 3
Floor 9 = Residential 4

Thank's for the pics Imre. :cheers:

It really needs to speed up or I don't even want to think when handover will be(1 floor every 10 days = 800 days, that's not taking into account delays, finishings etc.)

^^ I don't think it is taking 10 days. Tractor informed of the 5th floor pour on the evening of 4th of march. Looks like the 6th floor will be ready to pour in 2-3 days. Not blistering speed but getting quicker.

^^

With rose coloured sunglasses.

What they are displaying as floor 9 is Residential floor 4.

Floor 5 = Health Deck
Floor 6 = Residential 1
Floor 7 = Residential 2
Floor 8 = Residential 3
Floor 9 = Residential 4

Thank's for the pics Imre. :cheers:

^^ Still don't understand how they get 9, why not 11 if counting all floors above ground.

They're definitely quicker than a floor every 10 days now..lets just hope its gets faster. They're aiming for 2 floors per week if they are to stay on target.

Spoke to Betterhomes they claimed they don’t know when the project in front of MH and Torch will be officially launched. Also they said it will be launched to Betterhomes clients first then to rest of the public!

Not sure whether to believe them or not.

They told Imre it will be launched at the end of March.

^^ Still don't understand how they get 9, why not 11 if counting all floors above ground.

Simple, the ground Floor is labeled G, the one above it is M and the one above it is 1 ... and so on.

ta :) :cheers:

if you look at the board on page 1 it shows:

4B + G + 4P + HC

so above ground you have G + 5 floors before 1st residental floor

you have 4 residential floors built already so on no G + 9 :cheers:

Why don't the Brits just follow the American numbering system. You start with one and count your way up sequentially--simple. If you want also to use the G, M, H, X, Y, Z or whatever you can, but no matter what you start counting with 1--and G corresponds to 1.

So am I right in saying there will be 72 residential floors. Which means 72 - 5 = 67 floors to go ?

67 floors X 5 days = 335 Days :)

^^ Mackie owes me £100 :banana:

Why don't the Brits just follow the American numbering system. You start with one and count your way up sequentially--simple. If you want also to use the G, M, H, X, Y, Z or whatever you can, but no matter what you start counting with 1--and G corresponds to 1.

Let's not forget Americans got their language from us, so 1 is G in fact is the binary counting system starts from 0 for G :)

^^ Mackie owes me £100 :banana:

^^Remind me of this wager ??

^^ Handover of the 1st Torch apartment before Jan 1st 2011.

^^Gorilla is not that far out.

Here is the most optimistic scenario:

The next few floors (say 4 0r 5) will take approx 10 days each (7 weeks)
70 more complete floors at 7 days each (70 weeks).
Topping the tower, best case (casting the feature & install electronics off sit), 2/4 weeks.
M&E installation and commissioning 18 to 24 months with 6 to 9 months staggered into construction, 70 to 78 weeks.
F****ing about + (Hot Weather + Ramadan + Eid + Xmas)*2, 16 to 24 weeks. Not to forget the rain of course.
Inspections, connections and certification 8 to 12 weeks.
Snagging and modifications 4 to 8 weeks.
Start of handover : you do the Math.

But what do I know, I 've given up on this one. :cheers:

This was end of last year :ohno:

Money is in the Bank for drinks fund :cheers:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=14713499&postcount=1289

Ill raise you to £1000 ?

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9930/1000kt8.jpg

No, £100 is enough, I am a poor man.:cheers:

Did you see the new DCE Labour contracts or something? Are the Koreans coming to the Torch?

And some for Foxy too

Good to see progress. Does anyone know when the cladding starts?

^^

With rose coloured sunglasses.

What they are displaying as floor 9 is Residential floor 4.

Floor 5 = Health Deck
Floor 6 = Residential 1
Floor 7 = Residential 2
Floor 8 = Residential 3
Floor 9 = Residential 4

Thank's for the pics Imre. :cheers:

Sorry you're a little out with the numbering here, let me explain.

When TT was originally launched the very first residential floor that could be purchased was called Floor 6 it being the very first floor after the health deck. Then the tower was re-designed and they slotted another six floors in at the very bottom, below what was (and still is) called Floor 6. The actual officially numbering of the floors did not change as this would have meant altering everybody's contract who had already purchased.

So......hope you're still keeping up with me :lol:. They slotted in six floors underneath but the problem was they only had five spare numbers to use ie. 1 to 5. So they called the lowest extra residential floor the " Upper Plaza" and the old Floor 5 which is the health deck was then called the "Lower Plaza".

So the floors go like this:

Podium Floors
Lower Plaza (Health Deck)
Upper Plaza (first residential floor than can be purchased)
Floor 1
Floor 2
Floor 3
Etc..etc...

So in the photo where they have called the floor number 9 it is actually Residential Floor 3. So any apartments on this floor are number 301, 302, 303 etc,etc.

Hope this is clear. :)

That makes it clear, so I bought on floor 6 so it will be on floor 12, won't it?

Crystal :nuts:

That makes it clear, so I bought on floor 6 so it will be on floor 12, won't it?

Yes exactly, it will still be called Floor 6 but will be where Floor 12 was before the re-design. :hammer:

Yes exactly, it will still be called Floor 6 but will be where Floor 12 was before the re-design. :hammer:

beautiful, i've just gone from floor 58 to 64....................... only a 40 storey rope ladder required to see over the building in front:lol:

Let's not forget Americans got their language from us, so 1 is G in fact is the binary counting system starts from 0 for G :)

Americans voted (TWICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) for George W Bush.
End of.:nuts:

67 floors X 5 days = 335 Days :)

I'm quite worried about how long we'll have to wait for handover. Anjam's calculation is right but they're currently doing a floor every 10 days or so, not five, so that's 670 days.

The experiences I've had with Goldcrest Views and Lake Terrace lead me to believe the time taken to get from topping out the superstructure to handover, allowing for glazing, interior fit-out etc is not less than a year. And they have less than half the number of floors.

So I think we're closer to three years from completion than two. And yet, when I emailed DS in response to the latest construction update, asking them to confirm the latest expected handover date, they said September 2009...

I'm quite worried about how long we'll have to wait for handover. Anjam's calculation is right but they're currently doing a floor every 10 days or so, not five, so that's 670 days.

The experiences I've had with Goldcrest Views and Lake Terrace lead me to believe the time taken to get from topping out the superstructure to handover, allowing for glazing, interior fit-out etc is not less than a year. And they have less than half the number of floors.

So I think we're closer to three years from completion than two. And yet, when I emailed DS in response to the latest construction update, asking them to confirm the latest expected handover date, they said September 2009...

really.................. i'm one ahead now:cheers:

... Are the Koreans coming to the Torch?

Why would Koreans be coming to the Torch? They already had their Olympics. ;)

Why would Koreans be coming to the Torch? They already had their Olympics. ;)

:lol:

Planning for their next Olympics :dunno:

^^ But this is the year 2008

(another clue there)

No, the Chinese are not going to save Steve's money. I've seen them in action and that was the clever ones and not the ones coming over to Dubai to work for little money. :bash:

If we are talking Koreans or Mexicans, he might have a chance.:)

I have seen a Mexican crew recently in the states building a Marriott hotel and they were achieving a 3day/floor cycle but they were paid based on product and paid well :) Their quality of work was exceptional :cheers:

Ok the completion date set by DEC for the Torch is september 2009. Did you know that the completion date for Marina 23 is set for March 2009. Their is no way marina 23 will be complete for handover in march 2009. This delay hapoens quite often by DEC.

No, the Chinese are not going to save Steve's money. I've seen them in action and that was the clever ones and not the ones coming over to Dubai to work for little money. :bash:

If we are talking Koreans or Mexicans, he might have a chance.:)

I have seen a Mexican crew recently in the states building a Marriott hotel and they were achieving a 3day/floor cycle but they were paid based on product and paid well :) Their quality of work was exceptional :cheers:

DCE it's not a Korean company, they can't recruit any. ;)

Ok the completion date set by DEC for the Torch is september 2009. Did you know that the completion date for Marina 23 is set for March 2009. Their is no way marina 23 will be complete for handover in march 2009. This delay hapoens quite often by DEC.

i saw some vietnamese on the torch site (cooking rice):kiss:

i saw some vietnamese on the torch site (cooking rice):kiss:

ps its my first anniversary as a valued contributor to this invaluable chat room and i congratulate myself unreservedly:bowtie:

http://i26.tinypic.com/mh583b.jpg

Scoot/Tractor> Are they ready to pour/Have they poured?

6th floor was poured yesterday - seems to be getting faster?

EDIT: Exactly 7 days since the last floor was poured

6th floor was poured yesterday - seems to be getting faster?

EDIT: Exactly 7 days since the last floor was poured

Cheers for the update Tractor, much appreciated. Perhaps they'll get to a floor every three days. :banana:

Steady on Morris, even DS haven´t promised that :)

If they continue with the 1 floor/week schedule it will be GREAT. :cheers:


Any news or word on the roof feature? I'm having the feeling it might go Timeplace's way.

Not much point having a pretty LED light display when it will be surrounded by 100 floors of concrete and steel !!

As i will be paying for it from my maintainence charge i would rather the money was spend elsewhere rathe rthan en expensive light no one will see.

A surface to air missile launcher would be nice.........

I was thinking along the same lines (that the light will never see the light of day).

Howabout an observation deck cooled by solar power.

How about a lovely water feature, surrounded by a douce of speculation and a hint of bullshit from Betterhomes?

^^ A water fountain in the sky, I like it a lot.

Great idea,

it could double up as a urinal for the workers having a fag break on the roof of the 100 floor commercial building in front of the Torch.

Another bad news for the owners hoping to spend the afternoon on their balconies with a marina view. :runaway:

Great idea,

it could double up as a urinal for the workers having a fag break on the roof of the 100 floor commercial building in front of the Torch.

:lol:

Not much point having a pretty LED light display when it will be surrounded by 100 floors of concrete and steel !!

As i will be paying for it from my maintainence charge i would rather the money was spend elsewhere rathe rthan en expensive light no one will see.

A surface to air missile launcher would be nice.........

Hi HT -is it confirmed then that the EMAAR towers are that high in front of TT ??

It doesn't affect me luckily because mine is looking between gap of Princess and Le Reve and well over the top of Le Reve itself but for marina facing it's bad news

That's right, we paid more money for a marina view and might end up with no view at all.

Nothing is confirmed yet. But betterhomes have emailed information to 2 different people that there will be 2 x 90 floors (residential) and 1 x 100 floor (comeercial) tower on the old emaar plot. Imre said that the developer is from Abu Dhabi.

The 100 floor commercial tower will most likely go between MH & TT in my opinion.

That's right, we paid more money for a marina view and might end up with no view at all.

Yes I am looking at making a case with my lawyers for refund for the difference between marin view and non marina view due to misselling. The difference for a typical 2 bed is around AED 200,000 between sea and marina facing view.

Yes I will be making a case with my lawyers for refund for the difference between marin view and non marina view due to misselling.

It is possible that we may still get marina views, albeit through a gap in between the towers in front.
I imagine one side of the Torch (i.e. apts ending 05 or 06) will end up with a better result than the other.
We are none the wiser until we know the exact positioning of these towers...

Yes still speculation but does not hurt to be prepared.

Most likely the tower will be 30 or 40 feet in front of you so you will have no privacy or view at all.

Hi HT -is it confirmed then that the EMAAR towers are that high in front of TT ??

It doesn't affect me luckily because mine is looking between gap of Princess and Le Reve and well over the top of Le Reve itself but for marina facing it's bad news

Paul,

As Steve says, nothing is confirmed yet.

Info we have so far comes from Imre and he is not normally wrong.

Personaly i am waiting to see what gets confirmed at the end of March (as this is apparently when they will be announced).

It will be dissapointing for sure if any of the three towers are bang in front of the Torch but we will have to see where they will be placed.

It wont make much difference to one of my units as it will still have an excellent view out towards the sea over the top of Emirates Serviced Apps and Emirates Crown. This one will see the Doghnut hotel on the Promenade and also a sunset view from the balcony, so hedging my bets when i bought two will prove to be a good move on my part i think. I will reserve judgement on the other until i know whats going on here.

Looking on the bright side of life. As much as i think it will be a bad idea to have a 100 floor commercial tower here from a traffic/parking point of view. Another way to look at the loss of views is that their will be 2000-3000 employees who might want to rent units very close to their office thus solving the traffic/parking problem and saving them commuting time and expense.

Actually by working in this 100 fl commercial tower and living in the Tallest Block too they would not need a car and save a fortune thus being able to afford to pay the higher rents we will be charging for the privlidge of having a vertical up and down commute to work.

If these towers are 90 + 90 + 100 all i wish is that they are stunnning in design and very expensive as at least they will be an asset to the area and not an eyesore that not only blocks views from other towers but looks like a piece of shit too.

By the way some of the e-mails i have had from SP regarding what will end up on these plots is shocking. Nothing i can do about it legally but if i ever meet any of the people concerned personaly they wont walk properly for weeks.

I agree with HT look on the positive side if a big commercial tower built in front of the Torch then renting out your units should be alot easier.

Also I believe even if big units get built in front there still will be enough between the towers to get some sort of a decent Marina view. The marina view will not go totally.

Yes I am looking at making a case with my lawyers for refund for the difference between marin view and non marina view due to misselling. The difference for a typical 2 bed is around AED 200,000 between sea and marina facing view.

Already ran this by my lawyers months ago.

There is a paragraph in the contract somewhere that says something along the lines of " I am executing this contract on the information provided within it, and have not been guided or infuenced by any other representations". Something like that.

This leaves plenty of wriggle room for any lawyer fresh out of uni to give you the middle finger.

Unless your contract states "an uninterrupted Marina view" you've as much chance of suing SP as George Bush joining Al Khaida.

As there was a large building plot on the edge of the Marina, right in front of TT, was it not a reasonable question to ask whether something would be built upon it at the time you signed your contract ?? Or did you really think it would be left empty ?? Or did you not know where TT was located ??

I've seen complete novice amateurs on the "Place in the Sun" type TV programmes asking whether there is any chance of something spoiling their view before making a purchase. If it occurs to them, surely wise and canny investors on this thread would do the same.

Sorry, but the truth is you all knew beyond any doubt that something would be built there, unless you're completely stupid....but.......you took a commercial risk in that it may not be too bad and turn out not to spoil the view too much. Now you've got to way up whether that risk you took was worth it. No good bleating about it now. You'll only know what will be built there once the development is launched. In the meantime stop believing the bullshit comming from Better Homes they're only trying to wind you up.........and succeeding very well by the sound of it.

I decided after buying at the rear of TT that a Marina view would probably be a very good investment so I bought in Bay Central as it's right on the water's edge. Now if there had been a really big building plot in front of BC, you know what.........now make sure you're sitting down coz you're not going to believe this but.......I'd have asked SP what was going to be built there and if they couldn't confirm what it was going to be, I'd have said...... no thanks, I'll look elsewhere.

Is it me.........or is this just not common sense ?

Fair point. It'll be interesting to see what the prices are in the 2x90 Res towers - I imagine outrageously expensive which should have a knock-on effect to the area.

Paul,

Looking on the bright side of life. As much as i think it will be a bad idea to have a 100 floor commercial tower here from a traffic/parking point of view. Another way to look at the loss of views is that their will be 2000-3000 employees who might want to rent units very close to their office thus solving the traffic/parking problem and saving them commuting time and expense.

Unless your contract states "an uninterrupted Marina view" you've as much chance of suing SP as George Bush joining Al Khaida.

As there was a large building plot on the edge of the Marina, right in front of TT, was it not a reasonable question to ask whether something would be built upon it at the time you signed your contract ?? Or did you really think it would be left empty ?? Or did you not know where TT was located ??

I've seen complete novice amateurs on the "Place in the Sun" type TV programmes asking whether there is any chance of something spoiling their view before making a purchase. If it occurs to them, surely wise and canny investors on this thread would do the same.

Sorry, but the truth is you all knew beyond any doubt that something would be built there, unless you're completely stupid....but.......you took a commercial risk in that it may not be too bad and turn out not to spoil the view too much. Now you've got to way up whether that risk you took was worth it. No good bleating about it now. You'll only know what will be built there once the development is launched. In the meantime stop believing the bullshit comming from Better Homes they're only trying to wind you up.........and succeeding very well by the sound of it.

I decided after buying at the rear of TT that a Marina view would probably be a very good investment so I bought in Bay Central. Now if there had been a really big building plot in front of BC, you know what.........I'd have asked SP what was going to be built and if they couldn't confirm what was going to be I'd had said...... no thanks, I'll look elsewhere.

Is it me.........or is this just not common sense ?

Priceless :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Priceless :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Always happy to give advice. :lol:

Fair point. It'll be interesting to see what the prices are in the 2x90 Res towers - I imagine outrageously expensive which should have a knock-on effect to the area.

Hi Jetsetter, there is NOT going to be 2 x 90 Res towers........STOP believing the bullshit, please, please..... pretty please. :nuts:

Look.......BH are not going to know what's going to be built there, they're a tinpot letting agency. And just suppose for one stupid, crazy, idiotic moment they did by a miracle know.......they're not going to to tell anybody as they will be under a confidentiality agreement. Why the f@@k would they want to tell us any way ?? For the Love of Allah........please stop believing them........or I'll come round with the big boys and sort you out. :lol:

It does not matter what is in the contract the legal case is misselling. I purchased in TT because of the advertising and sales reps.

"Occupying an enviable location at the mouth of Dubai Marina, the tower boasts stunning views of the Marina itself".

"Every apartment offers large windows and exceptional balcony space, with views to compliment both the location and height of this sensational development"

In addition to numerous email and witnessed conversations stating that categorically there will not be a high rise built in front and I will be guaranteed a clear marina view.

Is the end of March still followed by the 1st of April? I hope so :cry: :cry:

In addition to numerous email and witnessed conversations stating that categorically there will not be a high rise built in front and I will be guaranteed a clear marina view.

Well there's nothing to worry about then Steve. Can't see what all the fuss is about. Low rise it is then. :banana:

Welcome back Morris, I missed you :hug:

This is the real Morris coming back :banana:

I remember a few people having a go a couple of years back when I moaned about the exact same issue :cry: :cry:

Thanks Mackie. You're my bestest friend in the world. :kiss:

It does not matter what is in the contract the legal case is misselling. I purchased in TT because of the advertising and sales reps.

"Occupying an enviable location at the mouth of Dubai Marina, the tower boasts stunning views of the Marina itself".

"Every apartment offers large windows and exceptional balcony space, with views to compliment both the location and height of this sensational development"

In addition to numerous email and witnessed conversations stating that categorically there will not be a high rise built in front and I will be guaranteed a clear marina view.

Steve you may have bought it on these points but if you signed the same contract as me then you have signed a legal contract to say the following and i quote;

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY clause 14.1

The Buyer aknowledges that it has not relied on, or been induced to enter this Agreement, by representation, warranty or undertaking other than those expressly set out in this agreement, and the buyer shall not be entitled to make any claim against the Seller in respect of any representation, warranty or undertaking arising out of, or in conjunction with, this agreement unless the representation, warranty or undertaking is expressly set out in this Agreement.

Its full proof mate.

It doesnt matter if you have an e-mail from an SP employee that guarantees a 60+ floor tower wont be built on the old Emaar plots. (as indeed i have).

It doesnt matter if you have a recoded conversation with a Director of SP who says that the old Emaar plots dont have permission to be supertall 60+. (as indeed i have).

It counts for f**k all.


On a happier note i heard that they are pouring floor 6 of the tower now is that right.

On a happier note i heard that they are pouring floor 6 of the tower now is that right.

6th floor was poured yesterday - seems to be getting faster?

EDIT: Exactly 7 days since the last floor was poured


According to Tractor it was done on Monday. :banana:

Paul,

As Steve says, nothing is confirmed yet.

Info we have so far comes from Imre and he is not normally wrong.

Personaly i am waiting to see what gets confirmed at the end of March (as this is apparently when they will be announced).

It will be dissapointing for sure if any of the three towers are bang in front of the Torch but we will have to see where they will be placed.

It wont make much difference to one of my units as it will still have an excellent view out towards the sea over the top of Emirates Serviced Apps and Emirates Crown. This one will see the Doghnut hotel on the Promenade and also a sunset view from the balcony, so hedging my bets when i bought two will prove to be a good move on my part i think. I will reserve judgement on the other until i know whats going on here.

Looking on the bright side of life. As much as i think it will be a bad idea to have a 100 floor commercial tower here from a traffic/parking point of view. Another way to look at the loss of views is that their will be 2000-3000 employees who might want to rent units very close to their office thus solving the traffic/parking problem and saving them commuting time and expense.

Actually by working in this 100 fl commercial tower and living in the Tallest Block too they would not need a car and save a fortune thus being able to afford to pay the higher rents we will be charging for the privlidge of having a vertical up and down commute to work.

If these towers are 90 + 90 + 100 all i wish is that they are stunnning in design and very expensive as at least they will be an asset to the area and not an eyesore that not only blocks views from other towers but looks like a piece of shit too.

By the way some of the e-mails i have had from SP regarding what will end up on these plots is shocking. Nothing i can do about it legally but if i ever meet any of the people concerned personaly they wont walk properly for weeks.HT - Youre right there are pleanty of up sides to the new towers
a]makes renting out more attractive to us with extra clientele working nearby
b)increases resale value because the EMAAR towers WON'T BE CHEAP - ( 2,500 3,000 Aed persq ft ?)

We might even catch glimpse of the DO NUT over the emirates tower from te 71dt floor also
Paul

Amazing that SP are still advertising "stunning views of the Marina" from the Torch.

HT, my lawyer has found a solid case regardless of clause 14.1 :banana:

I feel so stupid now because when we bought it was over the phone and when I was told there was a sales Centre in front of the Torch I thought they meant a sail centre and it had something to do with boats. It was only when we came to Dubai that I realised what it was.
They also told me that if it did get knocked down they were only allowed to build something 15 floors high maximum.

"a sail centre" :lol:

They told pretty much everyone "they were only allowed to build something 15 floors high maximum." or similar.

I'll tell you all this one last time then I'm giving up:

STOP BELIEVING THE BETTER HOMES BULLSHIT

I don't want to make things worse, but whatever is built in front of TT/MH probably won't be above ground for 12-18 months at best ... so TT owners WILL have a Marina view, at least for a few months. I hope that isn't enough to get DS's liars off the hook.

On an aside note, a friend who is a client of Better Homes asked about this and was refused information. They would not confirm how many towers or floors & his contact asked their 'special project' team directly. It seems strange that some BH staff are happy to disclose information while others are not. Perhaps they are trying to generate a bit of hype and attention, I dunno.

Well they've certainly got themselves lots of free advertising on SSC. I can't believe so many, normally rational & sensible forumers have fallen for it. :ohno:

What is even more amazing is why so many people who have bought TT Marina views thought that SP actually had some kind of influence and control over what was to be built in front of it. :nuts:

Sorry morris but you do not know it is bullshit yet.

Amazing that SP are still advertising "stunning views of the Marina" from the Torch.

HT, my lawyer has found a solid case regardless of clause 14.1 :banana:

UK or Dubai based Lawyer ?

Sadly I believe it is true, even though I think it is insanity. I'm sure whoever bought the plot paid so much for it they're forced to build as high as possible within their budget limits. We know that Emaar don't care about anything except $£$£

They can't even provide enough parking for the smaller towers so I don't know how they're going to make it work for this area.

Sorry morris but you do not know it is bullshit yet.

That's true Steve, it's only my opinion and I could be wrong of course. But in my book it's down as bullshit at this stage, as it's not from an even remotely reputable source. Even some of their staff say they know nothing about it, so judge it as you think fit - your choice !!

I agree Tractor, the lack of public car parking is a bloody disgrace......there's nothing.

However if you remember a year ago, they made SP reduce the height of BC by some five floors so the Dubai Municipality (and not Emaar) must have a plan of what is acceptable in the area. And SP must have paid a similarly high price for the BC plot. So the developers margin is not the sole driving factor in terms of planning consents IMO.

BTW Steve I can't believe you're wasting money on lawyers before you even know what's going to be built there. Your lawyer must love you to bits. :lol:

Guys its all up in the air I had a long chat with Betterhomes rep today whom last week told me the development will be in front of Marina heights and today she said we have no information at all on the project and the developer has gone quiet and not sure when it will be launched.

This whole story could end up being a publicity stunt!

Arfie, Thank God for your post - the voice of reason at last. :banana:

small gossip:)

the whole plot owned by SM and he has given to somebody in Abu Dhabi , like a gift , so they can build anything there...

nice gift:)

So it's gonna be a kebab shop after all then. Hope they do that really hot chilli sauce, with a couple of fresh chillies on top. Lovely.:lol:

I hope they don't build something between the Torch and the Princess Tower, i'll go f**king livid, I was clearly promised "unparalleled views of the naked fat guy's arse crack from his balcony at around 7am each morning, from across my balcony" and i'm gona seriously contact my solicitor if that doesn't happen.

small gossip:)

the whole plot owned by SM and he has given to somebody in Abu Dhabi , like a gift , so they can build anything there...

nice gift:)

Did this story come from Betterhomes as well ;) I am getting more and more convinced it wont be 3 90 storey buildings in front of MH and TT

Also is it safe to say this will be one of the towers in front of MH or TT ?

http://www.bmg-group.de/index.php?en_swarowski#

small gossip:)

the whole plot owned by SM and he has given to somebody in Abu Dhabi , like a gift , so they can build anything there...

nice gift:)


Hi Imre,

Who is SM ? you mean Sheik Mohammed ?!

You said this guy in Abu Dhabi who got the plot for free, they might be called DAS or DES but was not sure. Do you know anything more yet? Maybe it coul dbe a mosque. This gets stranger by the day.

Thanks.

Sheik Mohamed

Also is it safe to say this will be one of the towers in front of MH or TT ?

http://www.bmg-group.de/index.php?en_swarowski#

No I don't think so anymore. Perhaps these are just proposals.

I got just that info, nothing else, if I have something new, I will post.

Tonight - all quiet but at least progress is speeding up

http://docs.google.com/File?id=d5rhnmx_43g8sb8gtj

Nice one Tractor,

is that the formwork for floor 7 now ?

Yeah, just starting bottom left of the tower. No-one visible working tonight?!

Thanks Tractor :bow:

Got enough proof now that Morris is a DS/SP employee;

1. "The 3 tower development infront of TT is bullshit" Stated as a fact but really only an opinion.

2. Asked me when was it OK to load the newly poured floor and now that info has been relayed to site and they are building on it within 48hrs.

^^ Morris, get your boss to send me my fee and stop using this forum to exploit the SSC loyal. :lol:

great night shot, thx tractor :)

I'm inclined to disbelieve the rumour about the three high-rise buildings on the old Emaar sales centre plot. So I'm watching and waiting for now until it's either confirmed or disproved.

However, I think there's no harm in considering now how to play things should it come true. OK, there's a clause in the sale and purchase agreement that says 'I'm disregarding anything not in this contract', but equally, most of us are in the UK, as is DS, and if any misrepresentations were made by them, they could well be liable.

My instinct, as someone who's on the long-term payment plan, is that if the rumour turns out to be true I'll suspend the quarterly payments until a suitable discount has been negotiated - which should be at least equal to the differential in market value between marina- and non-marina view units.

great shot tractor and great to hear the gossip from imre.

^^

Good luck. Mistermark

You would have also signed a deed of assignment that legaly signs over your right of ownership back to SP if you do not fullfill your payment shedule within the agreed timescales.

If you thnk SP are gonna pay back on average AED 200,000 on each Marina facing unit when they arnt legaly obliged to then dream on buddy.

This is all par for the course with off plan investments.

I know shall we all refuse to pay because the Torch is more than a short walk to the Burj Al Arab as stated in previous literature.

Come on guys please

Tonight - all quiet but at least progress is speeding up

http://docs.google.com/File?id=d5rhnmx_43g8sb8gtj

^^Great pic Tractor :cheers: Looks like they are already pouring the columns. They have gone from 10 days to 7 hopefully they will be able to maintain 5 in a few more floors.

Got enough proof now that Morris is a DS/SP employee;

1. "The 3 tower development infront of TT is bullshit" Stated as a fact but really only an opinion.

2. Asked me when was it OK to load the newly poured floor and now that info has been relayed to site and they are building on it within 48hrs.

^^ Morris, get your boss to send me my fee and stop using this forum to exploit the SSC loyal. :lol:

I've already told everybody the other week that I work for SP so no news here TB. Actually I'll come clean and tell you that I'm accessing this forum from my SP villa that they give me rent free in Emirates Hills. And I'm currently deputising for the Torch Site Manager as he's gone back to Liverpool on leave. Hence why I've given the lads the night off - they love it when I'm in charge. :lol:

If you look closely morris you can see that your lads are having a barbecue party on the left side of the podium :)

Yeah, just starting bottom left of the tower. No-one visible working tonight?!

^^ There is a bunch of people working in the top right pouring cement.

If you guys are property investors rather than property speculators you should be taking the long term view. Assuming the Marina and (more topically) the "tallest block in the world" contain a finite number of building sites, once all the developments are completed there will be no more supply, but one assumes plenty of ongoing demand. Then those who own an apartment will surely be sitting pretty.

The long term benefits of property investment are clearly beyond the vision of the people who post within this thread. But anyway, this is a skyscraper thread.

I only want my TT apartment for my home or holiday home. Don't care about investment so much for it. That is why the view is important as I like the location.

Hi People

You all seem to be forgetting that ths is Dubai and that they will probably dredge the bloody marina and build new sky scrapers in front of the skyscrapers that are in front of TT and MH!!!!!!!

:cheers:

How boring is this IN FRONT OF TT getting. If you wanted a marina view why buy in a block 400 meters from the waters edge, what was you expecting lawns and fountains.

:yes:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6919/bluemosquemr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^ Come on Steve, didn't that person you contacted last year, told you that their project didn't went through because it was much shorter then the existing planned towers in the area.

Isn't that enough of a clue. ;)

No they just said the land was no longer owned by emaar and the new owner has the right to do anything he likes. We now know that new owner is SM and that he has given the land to a friend in Abu Dhabi to build something.

We now know that new owner is SM and that he has given the land to a friend in Abu Dhabi to build something.

I'm not convinced that we do know this...........it's merely the latest instalment from the rumour factory

Isn't SM the owner of Dubai? What's new? :dunno:

The Torch is looking better and better, 1st photo is my favourite :lol:

http://i31.tinypic.com/14cazw1.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/2rbyn3r.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/2qiscco.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/k020y0.jpg

^^

Good luck. Mistermark

You would have also signed a deed of assignment that legaly signs over your right of ownership back to SP if you do not fullfill your payment shedule within the agreed timescales.

If you thnk SP are gonna pay back on average AED 200,000 on each Marina facing unit when they arnt legaly obliged to then dream on buddy.

This is all par for the course with off plan investments.

I know shall we all refuse to pay because the Torch is more than a short walk to the Burj Al Arab as stated in previous literature.

Come on guys please

As others have pointed out, there are two issues here: the Sale and Purchase Agreement with the Dubai-based developer and the representations made by Dubai Select (now Select Properties) in the UK. Irrespective of what the former says, the latter cannot evade responsibility if it can be proven to have misled us.

Nice pics Imre,

The first one is the best of all, I could sit and lick, I mean look at that all day.

They must be getting close to a floor a week now so topped out by Sept 09 is feasible, and another 12 months for fitting out and commissioning So i reckon my estimate of 3rd/4th quarter 2010 is about right.


As others have pointed out, there are two issues here: the Sale and Purchase Agreement with the Dubai-based developer and the representations made by Dubai Select (now Select Properties) in the UK. Irrespective of what the former says, the latter cannot evade responsibility if it can be proven to have misled us.

Look I'm not looking for an argument here but if you think that watchdog, or rogue traders are gonna come to your rescue just because the sales team work out of an office in Cheshire then your head is firmly up your arse mate.

Bottom line is you signed a legal contract with clause 14.1 in it. You signed a deed of assignment waiving your rights to legal title if you default on the payment terms. Your dealing with a Dubai based company, governed by Dubai law. Doesnt matter where you live or what you were told by any salesperson in the UK or Dubai.

Unless of course you have OJ Simpsons lawyers. :)

@HT;

No chance for 2010 what so ever, you should know better.
You also should know better about making assumptions about people you don't know, Mark might just have more experience than you in this field :)

The contracts have a few holes that you can drive a bus through :)

You both have a good point to make but my money is on Mark as I do share his views. :cheers:

Well all my money's on High Times, 100% correct mate. :)

And many thanks to Imre for the photos and Mackie cheers for posting. :banana:

^^ Of course you'd be with High Time on this one ... He's saying that DS or SP, can't be held legally responsible, and that's what the company or their staff hope. :D

@HT;

No chance for 2010 what so ever, you should know better.
You also should know better about making assumptions about people you don't know, Mark might just have more experience than you in this field :)

The contracts have a few holes that you can drive a bus through :)

You both have a good point to make but my money is on Mark as I do share his views. :cheers:

Mackie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the completion date as its more your game than mine, but i still dont think 3rd/4th quarter 2010 will be far out.

I'm not making assumptions about people i dont know. I just know what i know and i am confident that my facts are correct. You dont need a law degree to work this one out mate.

On the legal issue, there may well be holes in the contract and i'm not saying there isn't. I found a few myself on other areas.

But if you think that compensation is on the cards for loss of views that were never contractually offered (which is what i was disscussing with Mark), then I'm sure there are hundreds of lawyers that will be glad to take your money.

I had you down as a being a bit sharper than that to be honest.

However if it gets to that stage, good luck to you both. :)

^^Much more ahead of this game than you think.

Some things you can discuss others you can’t, it’s not about Law degrees or being sharp here but knowledge along with documented evidences here are key to the whole thing if it comes to that.

One issue that is OK to discuss here is the difference in selling between various units based on views and there is a case for this especially with the number of people sold and told about the view. The price difference as a matter of fact is a key evidence in its own :)

I agree that different units were sold at different prices according to "views". If i play along with your notion that this is evidence that it has in someway enticed a higher sale price based on view.

Clause 14.1 in your contract is the only thing thats key here. If you can explain your rebuttal for this then I'm all ears Mackie.

Even with the whole 90 fl+ 3 tower problem that has prompted this dusscussion you will probably still get a glimpse of water here and there, and the odd boat en route through the vertical gaps that will be there, however the towers may or may not be positioned on the plot in question.
Then units sold with the "Marina View" will only need to be able to see the slightest glimpse of water through a gap between a tower and it's case closed.

MARINA VIEW is so subjective, it can not be proved or disproved in any way. Unless all you can see from your whole unit is concrete steel and glass. (this is impossible). There is no legal definition of what constitutes a MARINA VIEW. If and it is the biggest if in the world, it ever got close to a court. The case wouldn't be able to be factually considered until;

A) The Torch is finished.
B) The 3 problems in front are finished so that the damage to views could be independantly assessed.

By your reckoning this is looking like at least 2011 - 2012.

It also states in the original brouchure that Dubai is a TAX FREE HAVEN. This is simply incorrect. This is the same brouchure that boasts the Torch as being within a SHORT walking distance from the Burj Al Arab.

Is 4.82 miles a short walk ? You tell me. But i guarantee you that SP wont be liable for any tax i have to pay when i live in Dubai.

Thats how i see it but as i say good luck to you. :)

A free furniture pack or upgrade for all marina facing owners would be a start as compensation for the extra 200,000 + 7.9% over 15 years interest that they have to pay for a "clear marina" view, guaranteed in writing. This may be in their interest as a developer in order to keep their reputation as a decent company to do business with rather than face later consequences.

But anyway, this is all waiting in the wings at the moment. For all we know there will be a mosque there.

ps. Morris thanks for the heads up on the 0% + 1, you have made my weekend :cheers:

There is no direct correlation to US interest rates and LIBOR.

US rates as we all know are falling at present and the 3 month LIBOR rate reached a 12 month high this month at just under 6%.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c775bf96-f1c9-11dc-9b45-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2Fc775bf96-f1c9-11dc-9b45-0000779fd2ac%2Cs01%3D1.html&_i_referer=

Even if rates in the US go to 0% which is theoreticaly possible LIBOR will still remain high as globaly there is less cash around and banks are therefore less inclined to lend each other money. LIBOR wont fall until the pressure on banks reduces and credit markets become more fluid.

At least construction seems to be gaining pace on the tower now anyway.

Yes easily completion and handover by third quarter 2010 :)

There is no direct correlation to US interest rates and LIBOR.

US rates as we all know are falling at present and the 3 month LIBOR rate reached a 12 month high this month at just under 6%.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c775bf96-f1c9-11dc-9b45-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2Fc775bf96-f1c9-11dc-9b45-0000779fd2ac%2Cs01%3D1.html&_i_referer=

Even if rates in the US go to 0% which is theoreticaly possible LIBOR will still remain high as globaly there is less cash around and banks are therefore less inclined to lend each other money. LIBOR wont fall until the pressure on banks reduces and credit markets become more fluid.

At least construction seems to be gaining pace on the tower now anyway.

You're getting confused with your currencies here High Times. Talking rough figures yes 3 month LIBOR is around 6% and actually hit 6.9% last year. But this is STERLING. Your contract is in Dirhams which has more or less the same interest rates as the US Dollar. So it's the Dirham LIBOR rate that applies here and not the sterling rate. (LIBOR is not just sterling there's a LIBOR rate for many different currencies).

If the Federal Reserve lowered interest rates to 0% the UAE would have to do the same. Yes LIBOR does consist of a margin over the central bank rate (Fed in US and Bank of England in UK) as this is the rate banks lend to each other on the London markets, but of course we do not know what this margin will be at such time. Could perhaps be say 0.5% over the Fed rate which if itself was 0% then the Dollar LIBOR rate would be 0.5%. The Dirham rate would have to be around the same rate of course. Build into this the LIBOR plus 1% compensation level and you're SP compensation will be paid out at 1.5%

Latest 3 month LIBOR rates from BBA website as at 4th March:

US 3%
Stg 5.77%
Japan 0.97%

So if your contract was in Japanese yen for example SP would be paying you 1.97%. Dirham compensation would therefore be 4%.

Thanks Morris, very interesting.

As it does not state which LIBOR currency shall be used in the contract I questioned the contracts team about this point before signing, they said that it was the 3 month Sterling LIBOR rate which would be used.

When i probed further it was explained that the financing arrangements that DS (at the time) had secured to fund the non status payment plan was set up in Sterling. So i assumed this was the reason for the Sterling LIBOR quote.

However I dont want to provide incorrect information and i will check this again on Monday and post the response I get.

I'm sure they will say that construction is going so well that Compensation wont be nessasary anyway now they are building 2 floors a week

Cheers. :cheers:

Thanks Morris, very interesting.

As it does not state which LIBOR currency shall be used in the contract I questioned the contracts team about this point before signing, they said that it was the 3 month Sterling LIBOR rate which would be used.

When i probed further it was explained that the financing arrangements that DS (at the time) had secured to fund the non status payment plan was set up in Sterling. So i assumed this was the reason for the Sterling LIBOR quote.

However I dont want to provide incorrect information and i will check this again on Monday and post the response I get.

I'm sure they will say that construction is going so well that Compensation wont be nessasary anyway now they are building 2 floors a week

Cheers. :cheers:


^^ Many thanks High Times, good work, that's very interesting as well. The "penalty" in the contract just states 1% above LIBOR but then says if such a rate is not available then it's the base rate of HSBC Bank Middle East Limited. The latter would surely be in Dirhams, I think ?? :dunno: You're right, no currency is quoted (I naturally assumed it was the currency of the contract) so it's about as clear as mud. If sterling LIBOR then it would be great news - but I'm not sure if it is sterling how the nuts and bolts of it are going to work. They'll have to convert the purchase price to sterling to work out the compensation so an exchange rate will need to come into play somewhere. :nuts:

I'm glad we've revisited this compensation issue again. Perhaps Steve will have a better weekend after all now. :lol:

Guys, if the interest goes to 0 or something very low your loss of well-deserved compensation will be NADA compared to the gain in property prices as even the taxi drivers starts buying property in UAE. BTW I really like The Torch and I think you should focus on the location of the tower instead of your views. I am starting to loose some views myself which I paid quite a premium for - but I was for starters always sceptical about keeping these. Anyway, an apartment in front beach row will always be a good deal - an apartment in the supertall area will always be a good deal. You will only end up being frustrated thinking this negative - meanwhile you actually have made a hell of a deal.

Gents;

The contract says "LIBOR"

An interest rate at which banks can borrow funds, in marketable size, from other banks in the London interbank market. The LIBOR is fixed on a daily basis by the British Bankers' Association. The LIBOR is derived from a filtered average of the world's most creditworthy banks' interbank deposit rates for larger loans with maturities between overnight and one full year.

The LIBOR is the world's most widely used benchmark for short-term interest rates. It's important because it is the rate at which the world's most preferred borrowers are able to borrow money. It is also the rate upon which rates for less preferred borrowers are based. For example, a multinational corporation with a very good credit rating may be able to borrow money for one year at LIBOR plus four or five points.

Countries that rely on the LIBOR for a reference rate include the United States, Canada, Switzerland and the U.K.

There is no other mention of EIBOR, EURIBOR or any other bloody IBOR.

Am I missing the point here? To me a LIBOR is one rate and once changed to another rate it is called something else :nuts:

Please educate me if I am wrong :cheers:

I need to educate you a little further then Mackie. :kiss: At the risk of LI-boring you. :lol:

There isn't just one LIBOR rate, there are lots of LIBOR rates......the issue here is the LIBOR in which currency applies in the contract.

Yes but what I am trying to understand is why are you concerned with the other two currencies that could be involved.

AS far as I am aware there is one rate for these currencies, Sterling LIBO and US dollar LIBOR. Forget about Euro LIBOR .

If it is because of the tie between the AED and $, does it really mater? :dunno:

I am still unclear having looked at the history of the Libor rates on the BBA website.

"BBA LIBOR fixing evolved in the early 1980’s with the growth of syndicated lending and early developments in the derivatives markets. Since then it has assumed an increasing importance as well over 20% of all international bank lending and more than 30% of all FX transactions take place in London.

BBA LIBOR is now used to calculate the interest rates applying to a wide range of contracts including OTC instruments such as swaps, loan agreements, FRNs, FRAs and Exchange Traded Short Term Interest Rate contracts traded on LIFFE, CME and DTB amongst others.

BBA LIBOR is fixed for the following currencies: GBP, CAD, EUR, USD, AUD, YEN, CHF, NZD, SEK and DKK.

All currencies are fixed on a spot basis on each London Business Day apart from Sterling, which is fixed for same day value. EUR rates are fixed on each Target Business Day regardless of whether it is a London Business Day"

Sorry this is all getting too much for me.......I'm going to have a lie down in a dark room for a few hours.........be back when I'm feeling better. :nuts:

Mackie,

I think the best way to explain it is that LIBOR is the London Inter Bank Offer Rate. This is the rate at which major global banks lend each other money. Different rates apply to different terms ie 3month, 6 month, 12 month etc.

They charge each other interest on these interbank loans.

I think you know this anyway, from what youve said.

There are diffferent currency denominated rates but i dont think these will be used as when 3 month LIBOR is quoted it usualy means 3 month Sterling LIBOR. This is as LIBOR is a Sterling benchmark which has been borrowed by other currencies around the world.

I think Morris is refering to the Dollar LIBOR rate because the UAE Dirham is pegged to the US Dollar.

I dont think this is right, but i can see his logic for thinking this.

The common sense view is that DS used the denomination that their finance arrangements are made in (Sterling).

The only way to put this to bed is to get SP to clarify precisely what denomination of LIBOR will be used which i will do next week.

On a construction point, can you or anyone else help me out as construction is not my thing really.

My questions are ?

SP have stated that they will handover appartments gradually as this is easlier from a logistics point of view. They also say they will be cladding, fittig out inside as the tower grows. I heard a roumer of a 15 floor gap between construction, interior, cladding etc.

Firstly is this possible ? or Likely ?
From a health and safety point of view is it feasable that owners of appartments on floor 1-5 could move in, whilst construction is still going on at floors 70-80.

As i say economics, numbers, law I'm comfortable with but i dont pretent to know much about how these things get built and finished, it's all still a mystery to me how they even stand up straight.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. :cheers:

For a building to be occupied, it will need permanent connections (water, elec...etc). To get the connections you have to be approved by the Authorities mainly the Fire Department (Civil Defence) and the Dubai municipality.

The Civil defence will only inspect the building upon full completion followed by the Dubai municipality to give you a completion certificate.

Once a completion certificate is issued by the Dubai municipality and only then, you can invite the client for hand over followed by snagging, rectifying and complete handover. There can be no partial hand over, hope this is clear.

They are not that far off when they state that they can start certain element of fittings (Mech., HVAC...etc) once they pass the 15th floor but this tower will require between 24 to 36 months for complete fit out if it is to be done to high standards. The core need to be ahead by a few floors at all times as it is along with a few other items are on the current critical path of the programme. As they keep f*****g up more and more activities become critical and the whole thing slows down. I would've thought the current climate would make them speed up a little, it will go slower once it gets hot unless they work nights. A 4 day cycle per floor is still achievable with the right planning here but I doubt if DCE have the resource or the commitments to do it.

Just to give you an idea, some buildings in Dubai have been finished for over 6months now and still can't hand over because of lack of certifications, others may claim they have been waiting for nearly a year and then you get into the argument of Force Majeure :) Developers will always use the Authorities as an excuse.

My point here is, what the Developer considers complete (especially small developers) does not match with Authorities expectations for complete building but it gives the developer room to get the investor off their back by blaming it on the Authorities.

Well how come Barry moved in just before Christmas then ? :lol:

There can be no partial hand over, hope this is clear.

CRYSTAL. :cheers:

Are they deliberately keeping the core very close to the last floor for some reason ?? Would there be any benefit in doing this ?? Just seems odd that it's not being raised higher than it is. Perhaps there's something we don't know as they are using this N100 high density (experimental) concrete for the core ??

Morris, if you look at Marina heights for comparison. The core also was level with the tower at all times there. I think it is quite normal.

http://www.stratus2.net/6.jpg

Also note that the above photo was taken Jan 25th 2005 - handover was Nov 2006.

Thanks for the info Steve, seems they did very well with MH getting to handover within 2 years from that stage. As Torch is 82 floors from ground whereas MH is 50, then on this calculation we're looking at about 2.75 years which takes us to Dec 2010.

Not sure whether it's the large podium but TT looks a fairly narrow tower compared to the others around it. Pinanncle looks a lot bigger, or is it my eyes ??

Also note that the above photo was taken Jan 25th 2005 - handover was Nov 2006.

Someone is really worried about the £100.

This is 4 floors ahead at this point and the handover actually did not take place until Jan/Feb 2007. December 2006, there was only a very few people living there, scoot and a couple of others (I was there in Dec/Jan) so it was 2years exactly if this photo was taken in Jan2005.

Considering that TT is 84 floors.................................show me the money :banana::banana:

Look I'm not looking for an argument here but if you think that watchdog, or rogue traders are gonna come to your rescue just because the sales team work out of an office in Cheshire then your head is firmly up your arse mate.

Bottom line is you signed a legal contract with clause 14.1 in it. You signed a deed of assignment waiving your rights to legal title if you default on the payment terms. Your dealing with a Dubai based company, governed by Dubai law. Doesnt matter where you live or what you were told by any salesperson in the UK or Dubai.


I think you're wrong. Everything done by DS, the UK-based agent, is covered by UK law. If they've misrepresented the property this gives rise to the possibility of a civil claim in this country, irrespective of what's in the sale and purchase agreement with the Dubai-based developer.

Someone is really worried about the £100.

This is 4 floors ahead at this point and the handover actually did not take place until Jan/Feb 2007. December 2006, there was only a very few people living there, scoot and a couple of others (I was there in Dec/Jan) so it was 2years exactly if this photo was taken in Jan2005.

Considering that TT is 84 floors.................................show me the money :banana::banana:

you win, this will not be ready before 2011, situation is completely different than in 2005-2006, just think about the construction traffic, summer workers time,new rules etc...

I think you're wrong. Everything done by DS, the UK-based agent, is covered by UK law. If they've misrepresented the property this gives rise to the possibility of a civil claim in this country, irrespective of what's in the sale and purchase agreement with the Dubai-based developer.

Civil claim......:lol:

I'm happy to agree to dissagree.

Like i said.

Good look mate. :)

Its Tuesday ... pour day I hope.. Anyone know anything?

Yep, we're up another floor ... it happened late on Monday actually

sounds like a floor a week, hope they get faster as thesummer/ramadan season will certainly slow them later in the year

Yep, we're up another floor ... it happened late on Monday actually

Thanks Tractor. :cheers:

These updates help with the loooong wait.

Imre is away until end of April, so we are relying on scoot and Tractor for photo updates now :cheers: :cheers:

Found on Flickr, uploaded 19th March, not sure when taken.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4050/torchybz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Imre is away until end of April

How is this even allowed? He should be forbidden from leaving Dubai.

How is this even allowed? He should be forbidden from leaving Dubai.

We should have a web cam as promised! :bash:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9423/torchbr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

if it is so that TT is sorrounded by supertalls, will the promised light feature at the top of the tower create an issue for those who have purchased a similar height or higher unit in one of those towers?

Yes, they will never again sleep peacefully due to a 10,000 watt halogen beam powering its way into their bedrooms. And its serves them right for

a) Buying into another tower
b) Blocking the views from the Torch
c) Thinking their apartment looks all "New Yorky" with those venitian blinds in the bedroom.

if it is so that TT is sorrounded by supertalls, will the promised light feature at the top of the tower create an issue for those who have purchased a similar height or higher unit in one of those towers?

Perhaps the developer of the surrounding towers will be selling their non marina/sea view apartments as "Torch view" "Torch Facing"

Hi everyone-sorry to butt in but I own a studio in Royal Oceanic and if Imre is not available to update me on the construction, could scoot,tractor or anyone else be nice enough to let me know of the latest stages of the building with new pics or/and simple info (until Imre returns) ?

The tallest block is going :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

Hope the Princess Tower in the back will pic up speed soon!!

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9423/torchbr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Hi Dubai Steve

Camera very funny :lol:

Thanks for the update progress picture at next level. Is there any chance someone could sneak up to the camera in the early hours and turn it round, instead of viewing people going in the super market, instead focusing on The Torch construction :) That would be nice. I doubt anyone would notice.

The Torch

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8456/torchtf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Can someone remind me, in the render above there are 2 sections which look like mechanical floors, 1 about 1 third of the way up and another 2 thirds of the way up. Will these now be apartments ? If so will they have partially blocked windows, blocked by the different cladding structure there ?

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8456/torchtf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Can someone remind me, in the render above there are 2 sections which look like mechanical floors, 1 about 1 third of the way up and another 2 thirds of the way up. Will these now be apartments ? If so will they have partially blocked windows, blocked by the different cladding structure there ?

Dubai Steve,

Weren't these going to be something to do with air con, before they decided on the centrally distributed solution, which I believe is now adopted, simplifying the building ( please correct me if wrong, not 100% on this).

I have not seen any indication that these have been turned into actual apartment floors, but it wouldn't surprise me if SP did this, if not used for maintenance, rather than anything else, like a nice bar and viewing lounge like Bar44 in the Grosvenor (now that would be nice :cheers: ).


The Torch

I have not seen any indication that these have been turned into actual apartment floors, but it wouldn't surprise me if SP did this, if not used for maintenance, rather than anything else, like a nice bar and viewing lounge like Bar44 in the Grosvenor (now that would be nice :cheers: ).

Yeah,

They could call it "tower view bar".

this thread is more posts than the Burj Dubai thread..

perhaps making up for the lack of activity on site? :|

:jk:

this thread is more posts than the Burj Dubai thread..

perhaps making up for the lack of activity on site? :|

:jk:

what lack of activity?

Did you mistakenly think you were on the Princess thread when you wrote that?

That can only mean one thing.... that The Torch is as great a building as Burj Dubai, if not better, in every possible way, including pronunciation. I knew it all along, but didn't want to say anything.

it just means that the costruction is taking a lot of time, and during this time people posts......

^^ Not exactly, The Torch thread has 3.5 times more views than ocean heights and over 4 times more posts. Ocean heights was launched way before the Torch. :)

Theres more of everything on the Torch thread.

More banta, More bullshit, More controversy, More characters, More roumers, More suspence.

Its F**kin mental in here.

^^ just like its developers :runaway:

stupid, listen to me bastad. shutup

^^ i think it'd be better if you listened to me instead if you know what i mean :)

Yeah,

They could call it "tower view bar".

"Tower View Bar" it has a ring to it. I wonder if SP have spotted the revenue opportunity? It's a long walk to the nearest beer, having to go across the bridge to the other side to even get a sniff of a drink. Hmmmmm

Hope they're listening??????

The Torch


PS: Sorry this isn't about construction, but a beer is what most of the construction industry like, so it's sort of relevant.

^^ just like its developers :runaway:

Be a bit more constructive, - I mean this site seems to be speeding up and progressing well. Credit where credit's due - even if you think the developer is somehow sub-standard; surely you should making encouraging noises when they seem to be moving in the right direction and getting it built.

Still, - I suppose it's been said enough, this thread does seem to be a dumping ground for several people's mischief.

Theres more of everything on the Torch thread.

More banta, More bullshit, More controversy, More characters, More roumers, More suspence.

Its F**kin mental in here.

.... More spelling mistakes :nuts:

Heard from a source that there will be 3 towers (2 commercial and 1 residential) going up in the plot in front of the torch and apparently these are supertalls - the prelaunch will be in a months time and one agent is exclusively marketing it.
Could this be correct? Is there space infront of torch for 3 towers?

^^ Where did you hear this from, this forum, better homes or from another source ?

I will not mention the source as I have been told not to. As soon as I hear any progress on this I will post here - untill then take this with a pinch of salt - as the person could not mention the developer, prices or anything else

They are soil testing on the land in front of the Torch & MH at the moment ... two small rigs

And upon hearing that, i'm now doing my own soil testing in my underpants.

I will not mention the source as I have been told not to. As soon as I hear any progress on this I will post here - untill then take this with a pinch of salt - as the person could not mention the developer, prices or anything else

Ah ok you mean better homes then.

^^ Are you Stephan to get so exited about some supertalls ... or is the idea of three of them :runaway:

Heard from a source that there will be 3 towers (2 commercial and 1 residential) going up in the plot in front of the torch and apparently these are supertalls - the prelaunch will be in a months time and one agent is exclusively marketing it.
Could this be correct? Is there space infront of torch for 3 towers?

So launch of these 3 towers (2 x 90 and 1 x 100 floors) has been delayed from this week till 1 months time ?

This is the developer from Abu Dhabi that Sheikh Mohammed gave the plot to.

According to rumours provided to us from better homes, the exclusive agent is better homes.

And upon hearing that, i'm now doing my own soil testing in my underpants.

So are Select Property :toilet:

May 2008 - amazing development - No they would'nt would they ?! :D

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5211/dstr0.jpg

They are soil testing on the land in front of the Torch & MH at the moment ... two small rigs

^^Are they close to pouring or have they poured? :cheers:

^^ :weird:

^^ :weird:

Yeah I know it sounded like a thick question but if you engage your brain it is not difficult to understand. I only quoted Tractor because my question was directed to him even though it wasn't related to the soil testing remark. Yeah I know I was lazy and should have just typed out his name. Happy ?