#UNDER C: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m

[Dubai_Steve]

Spoke to SP. They admitted they have not decided the mechanism for compensation to be paid but deduction on amount owed at handover for LPP buyers was mentioned (as an overpayment to the payment schedule). I think everyone should push for payment on a quarterly basis (or to be deducted from LPP payments every quarter) to help with buyers cashflow. Not sure what is mentioned if anything on the contract about method of payment.

[FWIW]

^^ Well they can speak to my legal representatives if that try that s**t with me. I have it in writing that they will pay the compensation in quarterly installments as long as all my obligations have been met i.e. pay on time.

All of us as SP customers need to put aside our minor differences, stand together and ensure that we don't get taken advantage of.

Original Torch investors who were told in 2005 that it would be ready in 2007 must be extremely pi**ed off. The compensation plan was the only silver lining they have left. Not much i admit, but gave us SP investors a comfort factor (vs other devs) that by SP delaying it would hurt them into some kind of action.

I am sure they were just thinking out loud with you Steve - they have underestimated us all if they try that s**t on.

[Morrismarina]

Actually Torch investors who bought in 2005 were told completion would be June 2008 not 2007.

Anyway.......it's all going tits up isn't it. Torch way behind the schedule only issued 4 months ago - the site at a standstill. And Bay Central site looking like a car breakers scrap yard, which is clearly going to be years away from the "official" completion date of Dec'09. Oh my God I feel...........:puke:

And SP don't know yet how they're going to pay the compensation. I suggest they have a meeting first thing Monday morning and make a decision and then write to all "early bird" purchasers to let us know.

[FWIW]

Actually Torch investors who bought in 2005 were told completion would be June 2008 not 2007.

Anyway.......it's all going tits up isn't it. Torch way behind the schedule only issued 4 months ago - the site at a standstill. And Bay Central site looking like a car breakers scrap yard, which is clearly going to be years away from the "official" completion date of Dec'09. Oh my God I feel...........:puke:

And SP don't know yet how they're going to pay the compensation. I suggest they have a meeting first thing Monday morning and make a decision and then write to all "early bird" purchasers to let us know.

Actually they were told by sales that completition would be 12/2007 then when contracts arrived it was pushed back by 6 months to ensure it was built on time! I am sure though some investors may have the very early date in their contracts??? Let us know if you are an early bird as your comp plan starts first!

I 2nd that motion that they work this out on Monday and would also advise that their team doesn't drink too much coffee or eat too many donoughts during the meeting!:lol:

[mackie1964]

Completion end 2007. Emaar building in front of the Tower has planning for 12 storeys eventually.

Best Sea Views will be at the back of the building obviously higher up.

www.dubaiselect.co.uk

:lol::banana:

Go back and read the first few pages on this thread, it's quite funny :)

This Guy must work for Damac by now :lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

:lol: mackie. It is quite funny to read the start of most threads.


I would suggest that SP adapt their online software quickly to allow for a record of total acrued compensation per customer. This amount could then be used as and when required by the customer as a deduction on future required payments or requested as a cheque. They better get onto it fast as there are only a few months left to roll this feature out to their first customers.

[High Times]

Welcome back True Blue. I have missed you siezing every available oportunity to slate SP and their projects. Keep up the good work, it really shows what an informed proffessional you are.

Are we really resorting to play chinese whispers now. Smshah makes a comment about SP not paying DCE and now its like DCE are walking off site due to a payment dispute.

Everyone needs to chill.

Look at the facts;

Official completion dates are not credible in Dubai.
SP completion dates are even more unrealistic than the norm in Dubai (due to lack of project management experience).
Any progress made in Ramadan (September) is a bonus.

All of this speculation is SP's fault as they do not manage expectaions well. For them to be insisting a Sept 2009 completion is just an insult to your intelligence and only proves that the sales and customer service arm of the business is totaly detached from the construction arm.

As an investor as long as you manage your own expectations in life you wont be dissapointed. If you believe that your mortgage endowment policy will pay off your mortgage early and give you an additional lump sum for a ticket to the moon because the salesman said it would then you will be dissapointed. If you think you will be able to retire early on a personal pension sold to you by the lovely bank manager then think again buddy.

This investment is no different. You need to plan for the worst as there are so many variables involved.

Personaly i am planning for a 2011 handover and no rental income until 2012. That way this investment wont be a financial burdon to me and the weeks where there is no progress i am not sat at home debating which wrist to slash with a carving knife.

If you can't afford to have a back up plan in place to cover this delay then your investments will have a good return in them to realise when the tower is around 12 months from handover. So there is an exit route for you here.

Dissapointment is the child of expectation and stupidity.

[mackie1964]

Dissapointment is the child of expectation and stupidity.



Who are you calling stupid :lol::banana:

Morris, sort this lad out :bash::bash:

[High Times]

^^^^ :lol:

Thats more like it Mackie.

I've missed your northern charm.

This place isn't the same without you.

[thetorch]

Welcome back True Blue. I have missed you siezing every available oportunity to slate SP and their projects. Keep up the good work, it really shows what an informed proffessional you are.

Are we really resorting to play chinese whispers now. Smshah makes a comment about SP not paying DCE and now its like DCE are walking off site due to a payment dispute.

Everyone needs to chill.

Look at the facts;

Official completion dates are not credible in Dubai.
SP completion dates are even more unrealistic than the norm in Dubai (due to lack of project management experience).
Any progress made in Ramadan (September) is a bonus.

All of this speculation is SP's fault as they do not manage expectaions well. For them to be insisting a Sept 2009 completion is just an insult to your intelligence and only proves that the sales and customer service arm of the business is totaly detached from the construction arm.

As an investor as long as you manage your own expectations in life you wont be dissapointed. If you believe that your mortgage endowment policy will pay off your mortgage early and give you an additional lump sum for a ticket to the moon because the salesman said it would then you will be dissapointed. If you think you will be able to retire early on a personal pension sold to you by the lovely bank manager then think again buddy.

This investment is no different. You need to plan for the worst as there are so many variables involved.

Personaly i am planning for a 2011 handover and no rental income until 2012. That way this investment wont be a financial burdon to me and the weeks where there is no progress i am not sat at home debating which wrist to slash with a carving knife.

If you can't afford to have a back up plan in place to cover this delay then your investments will have a good return in them to realise when the tower is around 12 months from handover. So there is an exit route for you here.

Dissapointment is the child of expectation and stupidity.

"Everyone needs to chill" - agreed - there is panic starting here, which is no good for anyone.

The rest - disagree. I run a business and if I delivered 2 years behind what I had sold, I would be out of business. The crap that SP are sending out is nothing short of illegal in my opinion. Many of us have tied up £200k+ per apartment for years on end on this project, with little clear idea what is going to be delivered when.

And what does SP do - nothing, absolutely nothing. It' a disgrace, they must know about skyscraper and must understand the many concerns owners have now. They should be giving weekly updates by now, what is happening, what is not, what is the situation with DCE etc.... this is not good, not good at all - they are making themselves look like they can't run a pissup in a brewery.

[Morrismarina]

I reserved my unit in early October 2005 with a completion date of June 2008. (Official tower launch was June 2005). Having never bought an overseas off-plan property before I accept I was a bit green behind the ears. However I factored in a possible delay of about a year, which I still think was a reasonable assumption.

The unit should of course have been handed over a couple of months ago. Looking at the present state of affairs I doubt whether we will get hand-over by the end of 2010. A likely date could be June 2011.

If so, this will be a delay of three years. Or in other words the construction instead of taking 3 years from launch will have taken 6 years. I appreciate to a certain extent what High Times is saying here but, there surely there comes a period when the delay has got to be unacceptable. :bash:

I do wonder if this all this delay is actually the fault of SP ?? Perhaps we are blaming the wrong company here. After all it is DCE that are actually building TT. It could be that SP are as concerned as we are about the delays, after all what have they got to gain by delaying things. They certainly would rather not pay out compensation I'm sure. IMO they're always so concerned with providing excellent customer service which is second to none - emails answered within 24 hours and the phone within a few rings. Usually a company that is complacent about construction don't give a toss about their customers - take Tiger for instance - people can hardly ever get hold of them. Whilst I agree panicking at this stage is not exactly helpful, could it be that SP have had a major fallout with DCE over the delays here ? I'm sure SP will not be happy that their credibility is suffering in that having issued a construction schedule only a few months ago, they find DCE are already way behind.
Now I'm not a construction expert but I disagree that SP have to project manage the build here. Surely this is the job of DCE, they have project managers and should be ensuring they're on schedule - ordering materials further down the line, organising sufficient labour, engaging specialists such as electrical contractors etc.etc. Surely this isn't the job of SP is it ?? Perhaps in hindsight they should have signed up Arabtec rather than DCE. (Interestingly I note DCE have not been awarded the contract to build Pacific in RAK).

[True Blue]

Who are you calling stupid :lol::banana:

Morris, sort this lad out :bash::bash:

I think he is calling you a child. It's your mother who is expecting and your father must be the stupid one :dunno::runaway:

Anyway, great how this is all my fault!! :gaah:

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i36.tinypic.com/28krh52.jpg

Photography by BizzyBonita :)

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i37.tinypic.com/27zc1hz.jpg

Thanks Bizzy for the photo update! We can see the additional cladding.

[Mistermark]

I run a business and if I delivered 2 years behind what I had sold, I would be out of business. The crap that SP are sending out is nothing short of illegal in my opinion. Many of us have tied up £200k+ per apartment for years on end on this project, with little clear idea what is going to be delivered when.

And what does SP do - nothing, absolutely nothing. It' a disgrace, they must know about skyscraper and must understand the many concerns owners have now. They should be giving weekly updates by now, what is happening, what is not, what is the situation with DCE etc.... this is not good, not good at all - they are making themselves look like they can't run a pissup in a brewery.

I agree with this. In the next day or two I'm going to check what the contract says. It may be that there are obligations on the developer to complete the project as soon as reasonably practicable etc, which is inconsistent with what we've seen with people being off the project for extended periods at a number of points in the process.

If that's the case the contractual compensation may not be the end of the story, particularly if we work together. For instance, a collective refusal to pay instalments could bring the company to its knees pretty quickly and a complaint to RERA may be worth considering.

[Dubai_Steve]

Missing or being late with a payment will prevent you legally claiming any compensation. Has anyone spoke to SP to find out why the sudden stop of works? Everything was going so fast a few weeks ago. Surely it cant be because of the mech floor after all this time. Unless a slight redesign was needed as Imre said for the next section.

[Morrismarina]

Many thanks for the pics Bizzy. :kiss:

I would recommend anybody who is thinking of withholding their payments to seek the advice of a lawyer first.

[Sheltie]

With the amount of projects they have sold apartments in now you would think they would try to get the first one finished as quickly as possible. I suppose the longer it takes the more interest they are getting on our money.

[buster007]

Many thanks for the pics Bizzy. :kiss:

I would recommend anybody who is thinking of withholding their payments to seek the advice of a lawyer first.

Take this statement seriously guys - Legal advice definitely in dealing with such.
SP contract is cleverly written to protect their interest. With BCentral, I know that withholding payments or simply being late with payments results in penalty charges. Kinda like a credit card company charging you for late payments. If you miss payments or stop briefly for whatever reason till construction picks up, they have the right after written warnings to put your apartment on the market.

What good is the so-called Escrow account here, hey?

[Yousuf27]

Missing or being late with a payment will prevent you legally claiming any compensation. Has anyone spoke to SP to find out why the sudden stop of works? Everything was going so fast a few weeks ago. Surely it cant be because of the mech floor after all this time. Unless a slight redesign was needed as Imre said for the next section.

I have written to them asking for an explanation for the pause, and specifically asked if there is a problem beween them and DCE. I don't suppose for a moment that they are going to admit to that even if it is the reason, but I have asked the question.

[Mistermark]

As others have said, definitely get legal advice before ceasing making payments. That said, I did it with Damac on Lake Terrace because my lawyer advised me that once one party has breached a contract the other can do so in a corresponding area as long as they make it clear that's what they're doing.

By this I mean I had to keep paying until the last contractual completion date had passed, and then we wrote to them giving them 30 days to hand over or we'd hold them in breach and suspend further payments. Obviously they couldn't do that as they were at least a year off completion but it meant I could keep my hands in my pocket from then.

[FWIW]

As others have said, definitely get legal advice before ceasing making payments. That said, I did it with Damac on Lake Terrace because my lawyer advised me that once one party has breached a contract the other can do so in a corresponding area as long as they make it clear that's what they're doing.

By this I mean I had to keep paying until the last contractual completion date had passed, and then we wrote to them giving them 30 days to hand over or we'd hold them in breach and suspend further payments. Obviously they couldn't do that as they were at least a year off completion but it meant I could keep my hands in my pocket from then.

Very good advice - thanks for sharing.

When did handover of your appartment actually take place in Lake Terrace?

[mackie1964]

I think he is calling you a child. It's your mother who is expecting and your father must be the stupid one :dunno::runaway:

Anyway, great how this is all my fault!! :gaah:

He was talking about you not me :nuts:

And yes, it is all your fault. You started all of this S**t again :lol:

I love DS/SG, I love them much more than Abraj :lol:

[mackie1964]

Photography by BizzyBonita :)

His English is much better than his photography, thanks Bizzy :lol::banana:

[bizzybonita]

^^ i thought the qulitiy of my pix is like views of the torch :lol:ohh:runaway:

[Mistermark]

Very good advice - thanks for sharing.

When did handover of your appartment actually take place in Lake Terrace?

Now worries :). I took delivery of my LT apartment in July just gone - more than two years late :ohno:.

On a Torch-related matter, I've checked the agreements and all three of mine have an expected completion date of end June 2008 and compensation kicking in from 31/12/08.

Interestingly, while the wording is vague, it would seem that the LIBOR compensation is applied to the ongoing payments, ie there's a rebate to reduce the amount payable every quarter.

Also, I mentioned in a previous post that there would probably be a clause in the agreement compelling the developer to build the project in a professional manner without unnecessary delays. There is - paragraph 9.4. If we can prove, as was the case, that there have been extended periods during which nothing happened on site and many more times when very little was going on, plus of course it has been a matter of routine that the promised 24/7 shift working hasn't happened, that would put them in breach of contract and could form the basis of a claim...

[Dubai_Steve]

Look how 23 Marina has zoomed ahead! (also by DCE)

July 08
http://i36.tinypic.com/10nxj83.jpg

Sep 08
http://i34.tinypic.com/6736td.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i35.tinypic.com/28t87er.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/11ajpxy.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2e3daux.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/9qg09f.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/1owvhv.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/1zm2kyb.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/mrzjih.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/16bd2sy.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2hi5xqu.jpg

[mackie1964]

^^ I dare you to put the commentary from the DS update on the 4th photo :lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i33.tinypic.com/n1phjp.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/28t87er.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/dyw561.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/33aud1i.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2i6e92d.jpg

[jeffers]

^^ I dare you to put the commentary from the DS update on the 4th photo :lol:

What "View of Dubai Marina from The Torch" LOL... if only......:ohno: |I think they were missed out the word current..

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i37.tinypic.com/20adxxs.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/11ajpxy.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2r56iom.jpg

View of Dubai Marina from the Torch

[jeffers]

Having said that, a better than usual update from SP .. I had asked the question of the construction slow down yesterday, but was told that there was nothing they were aware of that would stop the Sept 09 completion date... yeah right !

[mackie1964]

View of Dubai Marina from the Torch

You are a brave man :banana:

[Anjam]

I suppose it is the show apartments that are at that stage of fit-out.

BTW anyone here own those units?

[Sheltie]

I own 606 but of course we got moved 6 floors up so I think that should now be a (timeshare) sorry "fractional ownership" apartment.

Don't know if I'm keen on the bathroom, it's all very cream. Maybe the picture doesn't do it justice but to me it's not very classy looking. Has anyone seen it for real or knows where we can find the pictures of the sample tiles that were in their office.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ Might be the bad photo. I ran it through photoshop auto colour correction and got the photo below.

http://i34.tinypic.com/dfzo1f.jpg

Here is my favourtie bathroom so for from Iris Blue, which is superior but I think the Torch bathrooms will be reasonably good quality.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6606/img2839ku5.jpg

[Sheltie]

The Iris Blue bathroom is nice. Can't quite figure out the layout of the Torch bathroom. Am I right in thinking the bidet is next to the bath. The bathroom looks tiny.

[FWIW]

^^ I thought they were gonna be more up market than that pic....looks a bit jbr to me!

[Yousuf27]

^^ I thought they were gonna be more up market than that pic....looks a bit jbr to me!

I agree, same run of the mill as all the others and not the "out there on the edge" design styling which SP suggests it will deliver in all it's developments. It's OK but no better than that. A bit of a disappointment to me is seeing the dark wood basin base unit. It's used so much aorund the Marina and it smacks of cheap stained and polished laminated ply - which is almost certainly what it is. Using light woods, or even high gloss laminated mdf, gives a much lighter, airier and more modern feel at little extra cost.

[Dubai_Steve]

The Iris Blue bathroom is nice. Can't quite figure out the layout of the Torch bathroom. Am I right in thinking the bidet is next to the bath. The bathroom looks tiny.

This is the largest bathroom for the 2 beds on the lower floors, it probably looks smaller than it is because the top of the photo is cut off :)

http://i37.tinypic.com/11azhu9.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/dfzo1f.jpg


The floorplan for the 2 beds on the higher floors here, 1 of which has a walkin shower:

http://i35.tinypic.com/iy31fm.jpg

[Beppe786]

is this a five star appartment??

this even when finished doesnt look like its gonna be that great

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ According to Select's website: "Each room offers the comforts of modern living, with fully-finished luxurious, elegant bathrooms, kitchens and bedrooms."


Well it looks alot better than Emaar's (public toilet style) efforts in the Marina Quays! :lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=18897971&postcount=307

The Torch bathrooms will bigger than bay centrals floorplan which is shown below

http://i35.tinypic.com/a32y9y.jpg

[scoot68]

I had the contractor remove our bidet on day one, makes for more space :)

[foxy]

does anyone use a bidet?

[Tosh]

^^ According to Select's website: "Each room offers the comforts of modern living, with fully-finished luxurious, elegant bathrooms, kitchens and bedrooms."


Well it looks alot better than Emaar's (public toilet style) efforts in the Marina Quays! :lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=18897971&postcount=307

The Torch bathrooms will bigger than bay centrals floorplan which is shown below

http://i35.tinypic.com/a32y9y.jpg


The Select property website has a totally different picture and layout for bathrooms.It shows a modern contemporary design and also looks bigger.Why is the one above completely different?

[Tosh]

http://i37.tinypic.com/20adxxs.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/11ajpxy.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2r56iom.jpg

View of Dubai Marina from the Torch


Are the views on the first picture from the podium close to the princess tower side? If so WOW!!

[High Times]

This is the largest bathroom for the 2 beds on the lower floors, it probably looks smaller than it is because the top of the photo is cut off :)

http://i34.tinypic.com/dfzo1f.jpg

Not very impressive at all I'm afraid. It seems that SP are really starting to let themselves down. Delays are expected in Dubai but there is no excuse for poor interiors and finishes. God knows they have had enough time to get this right.

Small tiles always make rooms look smaller. I was hoping for 600mm or at least 450mm tiles which look much more classy and give the impression of size. Like this;
http://i37.tinypic.com/bgahix.jpg

Trying to stay positive - At least the compensation payable for a 2 year delay will probably pay for a refit of the unit.

[Morrismarina]

Perhaps it's just me, but I think the Torch bathrooms look pretty good. The display one of course requires the tiling putting down on the floors, and perhaps some marble finishing round the edge of the bath. With a good clean and all the attachments fitted, shower, basin etc I think it will look fine. I actually like the dark wood, I'm not a fan of the "Ikea" looking light stuff that we see everywhere in the UK these days.

Size also looks fine to me. Remember TT was actually a cheap tower pricewise compared with it's neighbours. Princess, Elite Residences and Ocean Heights for example were hell of a lot more money. Yes we'd all like high end fitments but to be fair we didn't pay high end prices. (Not sure we can expect a Mercedes when we only paid for a Ford :lol: )

Just my opinion. :cheers:

[High Times]

We didnt all get a staff discount. ;)

[Morrismarina]

Yeah not only did SP staff receive a large discount, we also get uprated bathrooms. Here's a pic of what I'll really be getting:

http://i35.tinypic.com/33ur7eu.jpg

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

The Select property website has a totally different picture and layout for bathrooms.It shows a modern contemporary design and also looks bigger.Why is the one above completely different?

http://i34.tinypic.com/dfzo1f.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/6fw48x.jpg

I think you mean this one? Personally I am glad it does not look like that :)

[shaffar]

Agree with High Times, the walls have more grout than tiles.

[Dubai_Steve]

Talking of tiles, I forgot to post this photo of the hall.

http://i38.tinypic.com/afgfhf.jpg

[malec]

Are the views on the first picture from the podium close to the princess tower side? If so WOW!!
Only thing is it's going to be blocked by princess pretty soon :cheers:

[FWIW]

^^Hmmm maybe i need to reserve judgement until they actually finish a bit more off. Not looking 5 Star luxury to me at the moment.

[Yousuf27]

[QUOTE=High Times;24811750]Not very impressive at all I'm afraid. It seems that SP are really starting to let themselves down. Delays are expected in Dubai but there is no excuse for poor interiors and finishes. God knows they have had enough time to get this right.

Small tiles always make rooms look smaller. I was hoping for 600mm or at least 450mm tiles which look much more classy and give the impression of size. Like this;
http://i37.tinypic.com/bgahix.jpg

Absolutely:- lets ask for a bit of design chic to be added before they get further up the tower. Getting rid of the small tiles and fitting nice big ones will help, - even if they do nothing else.

It's pretty clear there will be no "wow" factor here; - it will be the mundane rather than the exceptional!

[buster007]

Remember TT was actually a cheap tower pricewise compared with it's neighbours. Princess, Elite Residences and Ocean Heights for example were hell of a lot more money. Yes we'd all like high end fitments but to be fair we didn't pay high end prices. (Not sure we can expect a Mercedes when we only paid for a Ford :lol: )

Just my opinion. :cheers:

Despite the developer offering and suggesting a luxury development with state of the art finishing, the investor should expect and be ready to accept standard/poor finishing because the price they paid are relatively cheaper to other development in the area. What a load of bull :ohno:.

Time to forget what you read in those glossy sales brochures, guys. Can't wait to see the kitchen? Needless to say, I have always expected a very ordinary development from these guys.

[FWIW]

Not very impressive at all I'm afraid. It seems that SP are really starting to let themselves down. Delays are expected in Dubai but there is no excuse for poor interiors and finishes. God knows they have had enough time to get this right.

Small tiles always make rooms look smaller. I was hoping for 600mm or at least 450mm tiles which look much more classy and give the impression of size. Like this;

Trying to stay positive - At least the compensation payable for a 2 year delay will probably pay for a refit of the unit.

SP compensation is calculated as;

What you have paid so far when compensation is due to you as stated in your contract at a rate of US LIBOR + 1%.

US LIBOR is currently around 2%.

Basicaly the square root of F**k all.

So you are now saying a 5 Star Luxury Bathroom = Square Root of F**k all!:lol:

[charlie big potatoes]

In the shape of it all the cost of couple of bathrooms cant be much. If they are that rubbish replace them when you get the keys. These are very very small bathrooms approx 2mx2m each could be done nice for as little as 10k stg and you got it how you want it.

[FWIW]

^^Just more hassle for the investors that were sold a line by the sales dept. I was told that all SP towers will be up to a very high UK standard as they were comparing/commenting on some other finished developments in the marina.

I agree we can sort it out after, but shouldn't the bathrooms at least look slightly like the computer graphics we have all seen? If SP are cutting costs on these small rooms, what else are they up to?

[Beppe786]

https://www.myselectproperty.com/images/gallery/large/g_bcvbath.jpg

heres bay central's supposed bathroom look.. we well see what we actually.. get

[AltinD]

Yeah not only did SP staff receive a large discount, we also get uprated bathrooms. Here's a pic of what I'll really be getting:

http://i35.tinypic.com/33ur7eu.jpg

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


BURJ AL TORCH ... so that was what they're referring to when they wrote "...walking distance" on the brochure :rofl:

[High Times]

So you are now saying a 5 Star Luxury Bathroom = Square Root of F**k all!:lol:

Obviously your algebra is not up to scratch. :ohno:

2 years X the square root of F**k all = 2 decent bathrooms.

Factor in US base rate rises in Q3/4 2009 and US LIBOR set to increase to around 4% then i might even be able to afford a pack of andrex too. :)

In fairness to SP i am reserving my final judgement on fittings until they finish the showflat and I will be going to Dubai to inspect it in November. I will also be meeting with the Torch development manager and making a decision on weather to stick it out or move on to something else as i have had some interesting offers lately.

Lets hope they at least finish the showflat in the next 3 months as they said they would to me.

[FWIW]

https://www.myselectproperty.com/images/gallery/large/g_bcvbath.jpg

heres bay central's supposed bathroom look.. we well see what we actually.. get

Look at the tiles on that! They look very nice and big...
:banana:

[FWIW]

Obviously your algebra is not up to scratch. :ohno:

2 years X the square root of F**k all = 2 decent bathrooms.

Factor in US base rate rises in Q3/4 2009 and US LIBOR set to increase to around 4% then i might even be able to afford a pack of andrex too. :)

In fairness to SP i am reserving my final judgement on fittings until they finish the showflat and I will be going to Dubai to inspect it in November. I will also be meeting with the Torch development manager and making a decision on weather to stick it out or move on to something else as i have had some interesting offers lately.

Lets hope they at least finish the showflat in the next 3 months as they said they would to me.

OK - let them finish the showroom and show it to you HT. Just ensure you take some extra soft andrex rolls with you just in case it is not to your liking. Put a roll on each hand and smack the SP people about a bit.:lol:

[Sheltie]

I had the contractor remove our bidet on day one, makes for more space :)

What an excellent idea. I would be really happy if they didn't put the bidet in at the beginning and only put the pipes and fittings there in case it got sold to someone who wants a bidet.

It might be an idea to put that suggestion to SP. Even if half the apartments didn't want a bidet it would save them money to spend elsewhere.

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ziqw0g.jpg

:lol:

[mackie1964]

I remember in late 2006, I was attacked when I suggested to people who accepted the delay that they will soon accept bad quality also, I guess I was right :)

[Dubai_Steve]

I don't see how you can judge the quality yet. The only concern appears to be that the tiles are not extra large ones that HT likes. I think the quality is very good actually, better than expected. Marble tops, reasonable quality wall tiles, good bath. We need to wait to see the floor tiles, sinks and finishes yet so can not judge. I agree with Morris, I think it will look good when complete and certainly adequate for holiday letting purposes. I think full judgement should wait until the show flat is completed, cleaned and dressed.

[mackie1964]

DCE = Bad Quality.

I spent 26 days with them in Timeplace and I had a few chats with the guys on the Torch site.:nuts:

[Imre]

DCE can make rubbish everywhere, just see the quality of the Dreams,Time Place,Marina Quays etc..

[Tosh]

Bay Central was the only one that was going to be 5*.
This is because of the hotel facilities.
As long as the quality is as good as, if not better than Marina crown a few yards away,I am not bothered.It is all about the location.prices will shoot up upon completion anyway.

[Beppe786]

Bay Central = 5 Star
Torch = 4 Star
Point = 3 Star

[charlie big potatoes]

https://www.myselectproperty.com/images/gallery/large/g_bcvbath.jpg

heres bay central's supposed bathroom look.. we well see what we actually.. get

It def wont be this

[Tosh]

Bay Central = 5 Star
Torch = 4 Star
Point = 3 Star

Absolutely spot on mate!!

[mackie1964]

Bay Central = 5 Star
Torch = 4 Star
Point = 3 Star

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

[AltinD]

But where does the project on The World fits in there?


... maybe pushes all them down by one spot. Sh*t, that would actually make sense. :runaway:

[Sheltie]

I had a courtesy phone call from SP today and asked what was happening with the height which was at floor 30 last picture I saw. He said they are on floor 32 now. Can anyone confirm this is correct. He still maintains it will be completed next September (ha ha).

[Dubai_Steve]

But where does the project on The World fits in there?


... maybe pushes all them down by one spot. Sh*t, that would actually make sense. :runaway:

According to the official star rating system, to get 4 stars or more, one en-suite bathroom must have a separate shower and bath. So that means only 2 beds in the Torch on higher floors will be 4 star and Bay Central will be 3 star :lol:

[charlie big potatoes]

Bay Central = 5 Star
Torch = 4 Star
Point = 3 Star

Beps I take it you are on about finishes. Please re quote with regard the views. Remember this is a whole package and a lot cheaper to remodel a little flat than move 600 foot concrete wall. Where do the other 2 shitty SP developments fit in your scale?

[Dubai_Steve]

I had a courtesy phone call from SP today and asked what was happening with the height which was at floor 30 last picture I saw. He said they are on floor 32 now.

Yes we need a new photo update! This thread has gone down the pan.

[Tosh]

The most important thing at the moment is to get this thing going up again.
Has someone got any photographs of the 32nd floor just to confirm what SP have said? How many workers can be spotted??

Also, can we not put together an Investors committee (around 5-7 members) through which we could raise our issues/concerns and also positives as they happen so that they could be taken up with SP instead of individuals calling them directly and not everybody being in the know.We will have to get together as many investors as possible and then get SP to agree that this committee would represent everybody.

Just a thought!!

This committee would then tackle issues like:

Webcam (desperately needed)
Weekly updates
Site visits/meetings
Make and types of fittings for both apartments and facilities
Regular inspections

The list is endless!!!!

[Morrismarina]

DCE = Bad Quality.

I spent 26 days with them in Timeplace and I had a few chats with the guys on the Torch site.:nuts:

Surely DCE are only responsible for the fitting of the bathrooms ?? It would be SP the developer who choose the design and tiles ??

Although I was fairly happy with the show bathroom initially, I'm starting to think it is pretty shite after all. (It must have been the joy yesterday of actually seeing a bathroom for the first time inside the Torch !! ). The small tiles going all the way from floor to ceiling without a break is just too much. There needs to be a nice border half way up, or perhaps a change of colour half way.......definitely needs something. And larger tiles would be much better.

[Sheltie]

Larger tiles look better and classier. They are also much quicker to put up (talking from experience). We do need a border or break in the colour.

[Dubai_Steve]

How do you know there is not a border, the photo only shows less than half the height of the wall :nuts: Anyway when the large mirrors, designer basins and fitments have been added I am sure it will look elegant. The quality of workmanship looks OK to me. The choice of tiles and fittings is down to Select not DCE.

[Morrismarina]

If there was a border I'm sure we'd see it to the top left of photo. I think we need somebody to go and see the show apartment for real and report back a.s.a.p.

[FWIW]

^^ Yes HT has already said he will go over with his andrex!

[Beppe786]

he will have too wait a few weeks until they install the toilet for him to use!!

[Dubai_Steve]

He will need to take some bleach to clean the bidet after testing that the facilities are up to standards :runaway:

[foxy]

My bathroom at home is biegy tiles wall and floor. The wall tiles are tall and narrow. There is a border 3/4 of the way up and is a natural stone looking coloured mosaic. The wash basin is oversized. There is an illuminated round mirror. Feels very classic and good quality.

Certainly the larger tiles is not too much to ask for.

Ps doesn't Select Property have a team of interior designers.

[smshah]

I found a interesting article on the contract which was awarded to DCE by Select Property. It states that it is a 2 year contract. Of course the start date of the contract would of been when DCE arrived and started on the site, after the piling by Zeblin or whatever the conpany was called who did the piles.




Dubai Select picks DCE.(Dubai Civil Engineering)(Brief Article)

Publication: MEED Middle East Economic Digest
Publication Date: 06-JAN-06

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Email this article | Print this article

COPYRIGHT 2006 MEED Middle East Economic Digest. All Rights Reserved.

Local developer Dubai Select has awarded the AED 395 million ($108 million) main construction package for its 74-storey Torch tower project in Dubai Marina to the local Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE).

The two-year contract calls for the construction of a 345-metre tower. It will have: 504 apartments; swimming pools, a sauna, a steam room and a spa; a modern gymnasium; shopping and dining spaces; underground parking; and a barbecue deck. The project will take about two years to complete.

DCE entered negotiations after the local Arabtec Construction, Lebanon's Arabian Construction Company and Gammon & Billimoria, the local affiliate of India's Gammon, had been shortlisted for the project in early December. Germany's Ed Zueblin is carrying out the foundations package. Lebanon's Khatib & Alami is the consultant (MEED 16:12:05).

[Anjam]

I just about manged get trawl through all the posts in the last few days! All I can say is WOW! What a lot of commentray on one poor picture of an unfinshed bathroom!
Come on guys, I don't think we can form an opinion until the bathroom is complete, dressed and seen in person by a forum member. I have had properties built from scratch and have seen bathrooms transformed overnight once tiles are polished and everything cleaned.

IMO the bathroom is "OK" dosen't ooze luxury but is better than many others I have seen in Dubai.

We need to know if the tiles are floor to ceiling and if there are any borders/breaks.A nice mirror surround is important for the look of a bathroom as is the lighting.

I personaly don't mind the dark wood, in fact I prefer it to the lighter shades. I think it contrasts the cream/beige.

Before you guys get too suicidal lets wait till the show flat is complete and then form an opinion, at this stage I don't think we can change anything as no doubt all the materials and fittings would have been ordered long ago.

I'd rather get the bloody thing built, a few months rental would easily upgrade the tiles if they are not to my liking!

[Imre]

I had a courtesy phone call from SP today and asked what was happening with the height which was at floor 30 last picture I saw. He said they are on floor 32 now. Can anyone confirm this is correct. He still maintains it will be completed next September (ha ha).

I saw this morning , same as before, nothing changed:)

I will take pics tomorrow and post on Saturday.

[arfie]

Work on floors 29-30 will continue for another 2-3 weeks I am told today by SP.

Internal:

Internal partitions are currently at the 23rd floor.

Plastering works are on-going between floors 14-16.

Mechanical and electrical first fix is at the 25th floor.

An example show apartment is being constructed on the 7th floor and is well underway. Images displaying progress will be available at the end of this month.

Cradles required to install external cladding have now been completed, approved and fixing of the cladding has commenced. This will progress over the coming months.

[Tosh]

Guys are there two pools or just one.?
All the literature says "swimming pools" or is it a big pool and a children's paddle pool

[Anjam]

^^ One bowling pin shaped pool and a small splash pool. The was a picture posted January which clearly showed the pool outline. I'll see if I can find it.

[Anjam]

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_15db6qccdf

[foxy]

Work on floors 29-30 will continue for another 2-3 weeks I am told today by SP.

Internal:

Internal partitions are currently at the 23rd floor.

Plastering works are on-going between floors 14-16.

Mechanical and electrical first fix is at the 25th floor.

An example show apartment is being constructed on the 7th floor and is well underway. Images displaying progress will be available at the end of this month.

Cradles required to install external cladding have now been completed, approved and fixing of the cladding has commenced. This will progress over the coming months.


Thanks Arfie

Why can't Select Property give us a detailed monthly breakdown?

[Joannides]

i'll be back in Dubai end of next week, so i'll make an appointment to see the show apartment (and take pics), as soon as they allow

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i37.tinypic.com/30w757m.jpg

[Morrismarina]

I've been looking again at the schedule issued by SP back in April, as they have been indicating over the last couple of days that everything is still on track for Sept'09 completion.

However I've been doing so simple calculations based on the schedule and where we are now.

According to the schedule we should have been on floor 40 at 1st August. There are then another 7 months unit full height is reached at the end of February next year. That's another 42 floors to go from 1st August in 7 months = 6 floors per month.

Given that the full month of August has passed we should now be at floor 46. In fact we're only at floor 30 so the floor count is only 65% of where it should be. Not good news and whilst SP are saying loads of work has been done such as partitioning, cladding, show room construction, etc. the fact is that the floor construction is way behind.

Whatever SP say they can't argue with the facts - we did not reach floor 40 on 1st August - we are severely behind schedule here.

[True Blue]

In the shape of it all the cost of couple of bathrooms cant be much. If they are that rubbish replace them when you get the keys. These are very very small bathrooms approx 2mx2m each could be done nice for as little as 10k stg and you got it how you want it.

Don't get too carried away with your expectations for luxury bathrooms etc. Very valid point that its easy to tile and fit out to your own taste after handover. You won't care if you are renting out.

More important to get the best quality building fabric, cladding/glazing system and good quality common areas as you will be stuck with them.

Who wants an apartment that is replicated 100 times in the building?

[High Times]

^^^^

Wise words indeed.

[noir-dresses]

Im going to most likely gut my whole place in JLT, and do it just the way I like it

[Dubai_Steve]

At least the Torch will have a huge pool with palm trees around and a great view of atlantis! :banana:

[Tosh]

Works are definitely falling behind!!

The "Torch" definitely needs to recharge its batteries or even better get "Duracell".

There are some pictures being posted tomorrow. I understand that more glass has gone in but floorwise not much is happening. We know it is Ramadhan and things do normally slowdown but it is concerning that things are not progressing as fast as they should be.

[Imre]

same floor but more cladding on the Marina Pinnacle side

5/Sept/2008

The Torch

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5583/imresolt003ki9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3007/imresolt004ne4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2290/imresolt005tz3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3824/imresolt015as8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4645/imresolt016mc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8291/imresolt024pr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6775/imresolt025yw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/508/imresolt027kn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1690/imresolt033qy6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[High Times]

I think the reason the floor count has not moved is there has been a major fuck up on the mechanical floor. Im not a construction expert but it looks to me like something has gone wrong and cant progress further until it gets sorted out.

In this pic we can see that back on August 1st the mechanical floor had angled splays reducing the size of the floorplate to a smaller size for the higher floors.
http://i33.tinypic.com/zbuhs.jpg


We can see more clearly here that the reducing concreate pillars have been finished with purpose and look as they should.
http://i35.tinypic.com/255o13l.jpg


It would appear from Imre's latest pics that these areas have been covered for workers protection and remiedial work is in progress.
http://i36.tinypic.com/25iqfxc.jpg


A close up of the areas being worked on.
http://i34.tinypic.com/m7vwiv.jpg


Finally we can see that the angled concrete reduction plinths have been taken out for some reason.
http://i35.tinypic.com/i2oq9w.jpg

A word from braveheart on the subject would be great. At the least it provides a legitimate oportunity for a piss take.

Comments from the usual suspects also appreciated as SP dont seem to be greasing the wheels of communication lately. As i have said before i can deal with delays but i would just like to be kept informed.

[Yousuf27]

Yes, things have clearly changedf haven't they. Great post HT; - thanks! When I asked SP what was going on this is waht they said:-

Work is progressing on the columns and steel reinforcement between floors 29 and 30, which will continue for the next 2-3 weeks. This requires some time as these provide reinforcement, which involves bending and shaping to create the architectural look and integrity of the building. The 29th floor is the mechanical floor and is contained within very large, complex concrete beams to support the upper floors. Therefore there is a transition on the 30th floor where the building dimension reduces, which is currently being prepared and takes time to construct. As a large quantity of concrete is required, this will be cast in two portions. Once this has been cast the slip-form will continue and the typical floors will progress up to the next mechanical floor.

I tend to agree with HT. It's actually a construction/engineering problem which is causing the hold up. What do you make of these pictures TB ??

[shaffar]

Can't believe it, if DCE screwed up and is responsible for the delay, just say it. Better than all that DS getting in to trouble/can't manage a project talk.

[Morrismarina]

Well said. We've had speculation that SP have not paid the next installment etc. etc. I actually feel a lot better now we know the real reason for the delay. These things do happen....... better to take corrective action now than build another 30 floors. Why SP don't tell us is just crazy - I guess though they can't admit any kind of problem with delays for legal reasons.

Many thanks to Imre for the great pics. :bow:

[Tosh]

fantastic understanding of the situation "high times"
Can some expert now confirm this and give us more detail as to what is happening technically.at this rate princess tower will catch up in a few weeks.
Not good!!!

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i35.tinypic.com/zjhsgg.jpg

[malec]

I wonder what the hell actually happened here. Why did they have to change the concrete walls like that.

[Morrismarina]

Perhaps there was an option to add more floors and SP decided at the 11th hour to go with it. SP did tell me after the re-design in 2006 that the foundations were larger to accomodate the new structure. Perhaps there is some leeway to go higher, say another 10 floors, taking the total to 92. Given the recent price increases in the Marina this would be very profitable ........ pure speculation I know, but it's the only explanation I can think of. :)

[Tosh]

i'll be back in Dubai end of next week, so i'll make an appointment to see the show apartment (and take pics), as soon as they allow

Joannides could you please on your visit next week try and speak to the engineers on site and find out what is actually going on.Currently we are all in the dark!!! :dunno:

Have a good trip! :cheers:

[True Blue]

I'm affraid I can't help with any answers. Mistake, redesign, dont know :dunno:

If it was recast the same shape I would suspect cube failures and the concrete broken out and redone but the shape looks different.

If it is a site mistake like working to old drawings, then they probably won't come clean.

[Anjam]

Well spotted HT!

[jeffers]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2uj16pk.jpg
View towards The Torch From JLT.

[jeffers]

http://i37.tinypic.com/ip8ps8.jpg
Another view from JLT.

[shaffar]

Without doubt, a mess up on the outer construction part, but what's stopping the core from rising like it keeps doing on princesses?

[Hollie Maea]

Wow...Princess finally passes Torch. The core anyway....

[noir-dresses]

would'nt the buildings engineers say whats happening if some one just went to the site and asked, I dont see why not. If it were a mistake, question is whats easier, get new paper work of new floor plan for inspectors to pass, or just do the floor over again. I've actually seen when a whole floor had to be done before because the quality of cement did'nt pass quality control in canada. I think one of the petronis towers had a simular aswell.

[Ben40]

Have all seen the newish constructions pics found on the SP web site (on your personal area)? Worth a look, but would still like to see more to get a feeling of internal and balconies sizes..

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2iw90nn.jpg

Thanks to the Ramzy & Bizzy crew.

[jeffers]

So, looking at the corner containing 04 and 05 Units it looks like the reduction in size will not take place as this has been redone to go straight up, not angle in for the floor size reduction like it originally did !! Strange as this is the design.... anyone have any thoughts on this ??

[Anjam]

So they are removing the tapered plinths and building straight up. Must have been a huge cockup somewhere. Surely this will change the whole asthetic of the building unless they reduce the floor plate higher up. If they don't reduce it will mean a redesign of all the higher apartments giving them more floor space.

[arfie]

Should we see 1 floor going up every 5 days or so from here ?

[Anjam]

^^Not yet- Going by the rebar they have laid out they have only re-done the two marina facing corners.

[thedubailife]

Maybe they can't count floors :)

[Anjam]

^^I did think that maybe they have tapered the wrong floor but they are not reducing the floor height so that must be the mechanical floor.

[jeffers]

^^I did think that maybe they have tapered the wrong floor but they are not reducing the floor height so that must be the mechanical floor.

Yeah, me too, but counting the number of floors, then allowing the extra floors that they added etc to the bottom, the theory does not work, but hey, imagine the ceiling height to the units it that were the case. If the taper does not happen I guess this will add what 130, 140 sq foot to the 2 bed units.. or well over 10%...

[High Times]

My guess would be that SP will be creating extra floorspace to all those units that were promissed (and paid for), uninterupted Marina Views. This will be their offer of compensation to those who will lose out due to MST.

An extra 100 sf @ 1,500 psf = AED 150k. :ohno:

[mackie1964]

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/media/images/torch.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/1zoeo0w.jpg

Model:

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8gnp.jpg


I am back :)

Just like TB said, probably a mistake working to old drawings (It happens). It does not take that long to fix and it should not stop the core from rising.........real reasons
..

..


..

..

Incompetent, lazy, good for nothing............. W****rs. :dunno:

And its Ramadan, soon the Eid and Xmas will be here and the rain is coming too.

Oh yeh, and its hot :)

[999bbb]

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/media/images/torch.jpg


I am back :)

Just like TB said, probably a mistake working to old drawings (It happens). It does not take that long to fix and it should not stop the core from rising.........real reasons
..

..


..

..

Incompetent, lazy, good for nothing............. W****rs. :dunno:

And its Ramadan, soon the Eid and Xmas will be here and the rain is coming too.

Oh yeh, and its hot :)

It looks on this render like the "step in" doesn't actually occur until the 53rd/54th res. floor so clearly they cocked up big time and this has really cost them(and us) time

[True Blue]

It's a well known fact that fasting causes the brain to malfunction and lack reason or problem solving ability.

Select should pick up a few new customers this month..:lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i33.tinypic.com/b7l5rq.jpg

The render shows a step in and the model does not. So I suppose the 2nd new render is not accurate and it will look like the model instead. But the model does not have a mechanical floor at that point only the render does :dunno:

[Morrismarina]

http://i38.tinypic.com/35d4utj.jpg

I really can't work out what's going on here. I initially thought they were adding more floors but I doubt this now. You can see the walls that would normally form the balcony on each corner are in fact much deeper than usual, so this must be a mechanical floor - it's certainly different to the others and does not look like a continuation of the normal floors.

[mackie1964]

The render shows a step in and the model does not. So I suppose the 2nd new render is not accurate and it will look like the model instead. But the model does not have a mechanical floor at that point only the render does :dunno:

I know its Friday and you have probably been to the boozer but you are seeing things :lol::banana:

I really can't work out what's going on here. I initially thought they were adding more floors but I doubt this now. You can see the walls that would normally form the balcony on each corner are in fact much deeper than usual, so this must be a mechanical floor - it's certainly different to the others and does not look like a continuation of the normal floors.

If the Municipality inspectors are doing their job right, this floor could be reduced in height very shortly, unless there is a third design on the way :runaway:

[Joannides]

i wonder if theyre going to insert a few additional floors? someone said in a previous post that SP could go higher than what's been planned. might be the last opportunity to do so. would be a nice way for SP to make significant additional profit.

[rgarrison]

Maybe its topped out.:lol:

[mackie1964]

edit

[Morrismarina]

When I asked SP what was going on this is what they said:-

Work is progressing on the columns and steel reinforcement between floors 29 and 30, which will continue for the next 2-3 weeks. This requires some time as these provide reinforcement, which involves bending and shaping to create the architectural look and integrity of the building. The 29th floor is the mechanical floor and is contained within very large, complex concrete beams to support the upper floors. Therefore there is a transition on the 30th floor where the building dimension reduces, which is currently being prepared and takes time to construct. As a large quantity of concrete is required, this will be cast in two portions. Once this has been cast the slip-form will continue and the typical floors will progress up to the next mechanical floor.



:weird:

[High Times]

I have heard many remarks made on this forum and in others regarding lifetime expectacy of the type of building/construction that is being built in Dubai and other emerging morkets.

Could I have an experts view on the life expectancy of the towers that we are looking at in Dubai please.

[mackie1964]

40/50 years. I am sure TB can explain all about thermal stress/cracking, corrosion and durability:nuts:

[AltinD]

So basically when he'd be out of X-Ray the building would be gone already, hm ... :runaway:

[mackie1964]

DS might organise to get him out for a visit for the 2012 handover :dunno:

[True Blue]

40/50 years. I am sure TB can explain all about thermal stress/cracking, corrosion and durability:nuts:

About that or even longer depending on whether a serviceability limit state occurs first. That once in a hundred year storm might occur 6 months after handover and the structure is no longer serviceable.:eek:

Buildings have a good bit of overdesign to allow for poor construction, overloading and storm events. But we can only guess how often these events and overloadings are going to occur. As for quality, it makes sense to employ a resident engineer on site to monitor the quality and ensure long life for the structure.

Big problem is that over design costs money and the skill of the engineer is to balance the design durability with the cost of construction. Skill of the developer is to assess the tenders on the basis of quality verses profit. DCE :dunno:Arabtec

Rest assured, the main structural elements are protected by a cladding system and temperature controlled environment. It should therefore last the test of time.

[canada2uae]

concrete is back, they been pouring concrete for the last 24 hrs, they hopefully back to 5/7 day cycle once they are done with the transfer slab, i been told that there is no change and the section is to be reduced although the aerial pic posted here does not look convincing

[mackie1964]

Ramzy & Bizzy crew, any chance for a photo?

I think Scoot does not love us anymore :lol:

[Anjam]

concrete is back, they been pouring concrete for the last 24 hrs, they hopefully back to 5/7 day cycle once they are done with the transfer slab, i been told that there is no change and the section is to be reduced although the aerial pic posted here does not look convincing

I hope they don't reduce the floor plan without the taper effect. Will look terrible. Even if they have to build the column with a step in it they should at least cover it with cladding to make it look like the renders. Maybe that was how it was supposed to be all along and someone screwed up :dunno:

[Beppe786]

some more picture of the show apartment would be great...

[Ben40]

some more picture of the show apartment would be great...

What show appartment?? Where are the other pics please?

At this rate the bottom of the tower will be comming up for end of use before the top is ready..

[jeffers]

What show appartment?? Where are the other pics please?

At this rate the bottom of the tower will be comming up for end of use before the top is ready..

Ben, have a look back at pages 352 and 353, a few images there.

[Joannides]

visability was really poor here today. its its any better, i'll take some photos tomorrow.

[Tosh]

Ramzy & Bizzy crew, any chance for a photo?

I think Scoot does not love us anymore :lol:


We are all eagerly awaiting an upate from Joannides with both interior and exterior photos :soon:

[AltinD]

Is scary how Ocean Heights is progressing, probably by the end of the year it might become the tallest of the supertalls rising ... err ... wrong thread. :runaway:

[Joannides]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2nls6di.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2euh7v4.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/6r563t.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2mrw2uh.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/20725xz.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2hdrymu.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/311vvcw.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/ru2vqc.jpg

[Tosh]

It appears that they are working on the 31st floor.the tapered concrete also seems to have come back,perhaps the techies like HT and TB can tell us more.
Joannides did you manage to go into the show apt?

[AltinD]

Some moron screwd up while reading the design plans probably :lol:

[jeffers]

Thank you Joannides... So it looks like a taper on a single height floor above the double height mechanical floor. Good to see the glass has started on the marina facing side this week.

[Joannides]

It appears that they are working on the 31st floor.the tapered concrete also seems to have come back,perhaps the techies like HT and TB can tell us more.
Joannides did you manage to go into the show apt?

i dont think its a case of just walking in and viewing the show apartment (unless someone tells me otherwise?). will need to arrange this with SP to see when its possible.

[paul g]

look slike the 'stepped it in' one floor too early. if you look in the old pics the 'step in' is one floor above the last formed concrete floor. now its back but it looks like its 2 floors above or a double height floor which could house the mechanicals maybe?

just seems like an error in the calculation for the 'step in'

[Anjam]

i dont think its a case of just walking in and viewing the show apartment (unless someone tells me otherwise?). will need to arrange this with SP to see when its possible.

^^ I don't think they will let you see it until it is ready however if you are in the area on a Friday evening have a chat with the guy at the barrier facing Marina Pinnacle. There are no engineers onsite at that time and he let me in last time I was there.

[mackie1964]

I give up :nuts: :wallbash::wallbash::dizzy::dizzy:

:drunk:

[DxbPC]

:bash::bash:

[AltinD]

^^ On what ... Steve's 100 quids?

[mackie1964]

No, the £200 are already in the bank :banana:

I've given up on trying to understand what the hell is going on, nothing matches any of the renders or the information provided to us by DS/SG :ohno:

Old Render / New Render / New Design ! May be, I can't count like DCE :dunno: May be, Steve was right :dunno:

They are just making it up as they go along :bash::bash:

and What is the Point of the photo above?

[Dubai_Steve]

Is my £100 scottish bank note (HBOS) still legal tender :lol:

Of course I was right, I do not get drunk on Fridays.:cheers:

[foxy]

Is my £100 scottish bank note (HBOS) still legal tender :lol:

Of course I was right, I do not get drunk on Fridays.:cheers:

I am putting by a few pennies a day in an old sock :lol:

[Morrismarina]

Many thanks for the pics Joan........you're a star. :bow: :hug: :kiss:

Seems clear to me this was a bit of a cockup and they put the taper in a floor too early. Shame as it's caused more of a delay, but good news they spotted it at this early stage and didn't have to take down loads of floors, which could have happened. I wonder if SP will mention it in their next monthly update ?? :lol:

[True Blue]

Is my £100 scottish bank note (HBOS) still legal tender :lol:



I'll give you £95 BOE notes for it :okay:

You can laugh, my pension is invested in HBOS :bash: Ironic that it was the LSE that short sold them and exposed them to a take over by a London bank.

[High Times]

I've given up on trying to understand what the hell is going on, nothing matches any of the renders or the information provided to us by DS/SG :ohno:

Cant you pop round for some coffee and biscuits and have a word ?

I thought you were neighbours with the SP Crew.

At least they have stuck a bit more glass up now as i guess they had to move the workers around whilst they fix the floorplate error in the mech floor.

I reckon they have lost a 4-5 weeks worth of vertical progress here. However as long as they are continuing to clad, and fix services inside along the way this isn't critical. What is important is that they keep the fitout moving.

If they can get back on track to a floor a week soon then Sept 2009 to top out the tower is still achievable and as long as the glass goes on and fit outs continue at the same speed then i can still see completion late 2010.

However I will still budget for mid 2011 until the assets start to pruduce income.

Joanides - Many thaks for your pictures thay are greatly appreciated.

[mackie1964]

Cant you pop round for some coffee and biscuits and have a word ?

I could but they will sell me something else :lol:

[agod]

Mackie, your mailbox is full, i did answer your question, what's your email address?

Alan G

[mackie1964]

Mny thanks Al :hug:

[Tosh]

over on the "Point" thread they think that it will be the best of all DS/SP developments.okay,it will be the first one to be completed but I think that "Torch" is their baby and they will be judged on what they deliver here.
Any thoughts chaps?
Please don't turn this into "Point" versus "Torch"

[Mistermark]

Personally I think whether the Torch is or isn't Select's best projects depends on what ends up being built in front. If it's only low-rise, well, it remains the company's tallest building and in a very good location. If Emaar lets someone ruin our views, perhaps not.

If MST or anything similar gets built, IMHO Bay Central will be DS's best Marina project. There are great views, residents will be able to use the hotel facilities and it's very near the beach.

[True Blue]

MST may be cancelled after all but there are 2 plots for sale in the marina with prime locations and $100Million price tag. No one is going to pay that kind of money and build low rise, just not viable.

[jeffers]

Does anyone know if DAS owned the plot between TT and MH as an access road to MST, if so then the plots Imre said about... G + unlimited could be between the two towers, then the G + 31 in front of either of these towers as this advertised plot said marina and PARK view.... i'm thinking there is enough space for a park there too even with these 2 towers, then the development height will fit back into Emaars original plan.....

[foxy]

Just received a demand to pay 1% RERA registration fee. 60 days notice from 14th August.. SP have been slow in getting this letter out.. so need to get skates on!

[Naz UK]

It's not Dubai Select that are slow in getting this letter out, its the government who have been a) unclear about when this will be implemented and then b) too slow to give notice to developers. But then that's not surprising.

[mackie1964]

I know nothing about this, can someone explain further? :cheers:

[foxy]

I'll do my best.

The letter is basically saying that all off-plan properties have to be registered with RERA. The cost is 1% from the buyer and i think 1% from the developer. On completion there is no need to reregister although there will be additional paperwork for which a small fee will be due.

So it is moving forward the registration.

On selling the off-plan or finished there is a need to register the change of ownership and offcourse pay a further 1%.

[mackie1964]

Thanks:cheers:

So this replaced the Land registry fees :dunno:

[foxy]

It's not Dubai Select that are slow in getting this letter out, its the government who have been a) unclear about when this will be implemented and then b) too slow to give notice to developers. But then that's not surprising.

Appologies to SP I have cursed you in vain!

[FWIW]

All these pics are from Charlie Big Potatoes (i'm just reposting!):

http://i33.tinypic.com/2wmqool.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/331dg5w.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/ny8d3m.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/25f3jab.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2infh2.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/nvskdv.jpg

[smshah]

ITS a bit quiet on the torch thread these days? whats happening boys and girls?
any other interesting news are we moving up on the torch?

[Dubai_Steve]

So the tower no longer matches any of the 3 designs:

http://i2.tinypic.com/1zoeo0w.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8gnp.jpg

[Joannides]

ITS a bit quiet on the torch thread these days? whats happening boys and girls?
any other interesting news are we moving up on the torch?

was there yesterday. not much happening at all.

[Morrismarina]

I'm sure the slow progress is due to Ramadan. Can't see how any Muslim workers can be working on TT without a drink or anything to eat all day. Which day does Ramadan finish ??

[Anjam]

Eid is on Tuesday/Wednesday, should be all steam ahead as soon as everyone is back from the holidays.

[Anjam]

All these pics are from Charlie Big Potatoes (i'm just reposting!):

http://i33.tinypic.com/331dg5w.jpg



^^ Do the flats immeditly above the inset get huge Balconies ??

[Morrismarina]

Yes I was wondering that, I guess you might be correct.

[High Times]

^^ Do the flats immeditly above the inset get huge Balconies ??

Please explain Anjam.

[Joannides]

excuse the poor quality - taken with a blackberry...

http://i33.tinypic.com/jjlpae.jpg

[Tosh]

Joannides
Are they on the core for the 30th or 31st floor?
Did you see any activity or were there a few workers only?

[Anjam]

Thanks Joannides, looks like the core has risen two floors since last week, hopefully should see the floor slab soon after Eid.

[Anjam]

Please explain Anjam.

This is what I am thinking........

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8721/25f3jabxl5.jpg

[Joannides]

Joannides
Are they on the core for the 30th or 31st floor?
Did you see any activity or were there a few workers only?

Tosh, only a small handful of workers on site, although thats generally the case for many other buildings also. As has been stated, it should speeden up again after Eid.

[Tosh]

Thanks! Joannides
The Torch needs a fresh supply of batteries!! :lol:
I am sure you will keep us posted whilst you are there.
Has there been any movement on the Marina Arcade mall which will be visible from the rear facing apartments?

[Igor-DXB]

I see that they also (like MAG 218) fixing gypsum walls between rooms. Am I right?

[Dubai_Steve]

Just received a demand to pay 1% RERA registration fee. 60 days notice from 14th August.. SP have been slow in getting this letter out.. so need to get skates on!

Anyone know yet if you have to pay 1% of the total purchase price (including 15 years interest) for those on the 15 year payment plan? Am I correct in thinking that if this is not paid within the next 2 weeks then the propery is no longer legally yours? A bit of short notice I think - what if you are on holiday at the moment!

[Mistermark]

I wonder if this notice is going only to the people paying upfront? I haven't received one and am on the LPP.

[foxy]

Anyone know yet if you have to pay 1% of the total purchase price (including 15 years interest) for those on the 15 year payment plan? Am I correct in thinking that if this is not paid within the next 2 weeks then the propery is no longer legally yours? A bit of short notice I think - what if you are on holiday at the moment!

Have you received a letter Steve?

[Dubai_Steve]

Yes only today, and I am on the LPP, the letter says 1% must be paid for those on the payment plan within the next 2 weeks also. But they are still confirming which amount should be paid!

[jeffers]

Anyone know yet if you have to pay 1% of the total purchase price (including 15 years interest) for those on the 15 year payment plan? Am I correct in thinking that if this is not paid within the next 2 weeks then the propery is no longer legally yours? A bit of short notice I think - what if you are on holiday at the moment!

Got a letter from Select today advising on this 1% and telling they are awaiting clarification from Land Dept if the 1% is on the purchase price or the total value as shown by the Lenghty pp...

[Dubai_Steve]

Damn, there goes my next 3 months pocket money :(

[jeffers]

Damn, there goes my next 3 months pocket money :(

The difference in the 2 is quite material based on the current exchange rate, oh well, value brand shopping this month then.. lol... one thing I wonder, are the payments due around the same time for everyone, or are they based on purchase dates etc, i mean if you bought several units at different times are we expected to pay this fee for all of them at the same time ?? does anyone know the answer ???

[Dubai_Steve]

Everything bought off-plan no matter when has to be registered and the 1% fee paid before 60 days notice from 14th August. LIDL will be doing very well in the next few months :lol:

[Anjam]

I got the same letter saying that a 1% payment is going to be due but the amount still needs to be confirmed so don't pay yet (something along those lines). I think it is in SP interest to negotiate 1% on the actual price rather than 1% on the price including interest after 15 years. 0.5% of all their properties on LPP will be a considerable amount.

[High Times]

Anjam, I dont think it will be "negotiable".

It will be whatever the land department want to apply, and why wouldn't they want to to apply 1% to the whole cost including financing, as it will make them more money.

In the UK Stamp Duty, (which essentialy is what this ammounts to) is paid on the agreed purchase price (not to include the total cost of any financing involved).

If it is calculated on the total cost of financing then if you pay off early, say on completion as i intend to will a rebate be due to both parties ?

Common sence would say it is agreed sale price. But hey this is Dubai so who knows ?

All i can say is shame on SP as they knew this was going to happen on 14th August and are writing to their clients giving them 12 days (i recieved my letter today) to arrange to pay an unknown amount.

This sums up how proffessional this outfit really is (isn't).

[jeffers]

Everything bought off-plan no matter when has to be registered and the 1% fee paid before 60 days notice from 14th August. LIDL will be doing very well in the next few months :lol:

Oh yeah, just read it again properly... doh !

[True Blue]

Everything bought off-plan no matter when has to be registered and the 1% fee paid before 60 days notice from 14th August.

This is not my understanding after reading the post in BC thread. It states that it does not apply to project already under construction and suggests that this is a law put forward to prevent flipping of off plans between launch and start of construction.

[Dubai_Steve]

So have Select got it all wrong and we do not need to pay? confused. I asked a question if anyone else has paid in the investment thread.

In the letter from Select it states, "The new law is to be applied retrospectively ensuring every property is registered, even those purchased off-plan prior to the law coming into effect."

Does this mean that many non Select Property buyers have not done this step and their purchases will not be legally valid?

[True Blue]

This is what I'm reading;

There will also be an additional 2% registration fee, payable at the split of 1% by the seller and 1% by the buyer, on all third party sales prior to the beginning of construction.

The good news for buyers is that developers will no longer be able to charge transfer fees on off plan sales.

Restrictions on property 'flipping'
The new law is also part of the government's efforts to help curb the market speculation that has seen prices rise at fever pitch levels, and ensure that all transactions are monitored by the government rather than by individual companies.

Unfortunately, for many of the investors currently undergoing problematic handovers, the law will not retroactively govern projects that are already underway or completed - although all developments still in the off plan stage only have 60 days to register sale contracts with the Land Department.


So if the project is nothing more than drawings then this law comes into force. Phone up SP and tell them True Blue says they are talking shit and ripping people off again:lol:

mmmmmm they probably already know that if they follow my posts :D

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ You mean I won't have to shop at LIDL after all? I will call them in the morning and say that TB says you are talking shit.

[jeffers]

Law states:

There will also be an additional 2% registration fee, payable at the split of 1% by the seller and 1% by the buyer, on all third party sales prior to the beginning of construction.

For most of us, this statement does cover us, purchases were made prior to start of construction, and we did not purchase as third party sales...

On a positive, I like this clause...

In a further boost to buyers, developers will also no longer be able to claim additional money if a project is larger once completed than set out in the original contract.

If the project is smaller than specified, however, the buyer must be compensated (the size difference has yet to be specified but the report anticipates a threshold of 5% and over from the advertised area).

[True Blue]

^^ You mean I won't have to shop at LIDL after all? I will call them in the morning and say that TB says you are talking shit.

May I suggest you send them a letter telling them to deduct the charges from your compensation account.

They've got a nerve, 90% isn't enough for them, they want 91% now:bash:

[Dubai_Steve]

Select Property September Update

http://i35.tinypic.com/91drgg.jpg

September construction progress on The Torch site has focused on interior works with plastering and internal walls completed on 26 of the residential

http://i36.tinypic.com/25plgyp.jpg

The cast for the next residential floor (31) will take place when the table form work is in place, which is approx 50% complete.

http://i37.tinypic.com/141sapu.jpg

After Ramadan, the workforce on site will increase by 40%. External cladding has continued with the aluminium framing being installed for this also.

http://i34.tinypic.com/9bang7.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

Does the 'exceptional balcony space' correlate with the floorplans? :dunno: any view to the sides?

http://i34.tinypic.com/2cdk1td.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/25plgyp.jpg

[Anjam]

May I suggest you send them a letter telling them to deduct the charges from your compensation account.

They've got a nerve, 90% isn't enough for them, they want 91% now:bash:

^^ The fees are paid direct to RERA not to SP.

[jeffers]

[QUOTE=Dubai_Steve;26069400]Does the 'exceptional balcony space' correlate with the floorplans? :dunno: any view to the sides?

http://i34.tinypic.com/2cdk1td.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/25plgyp.jpg[/QUOTE

The structure you can see is supposed to be inside the balcony space, so views to the sides should still be there... however, have we lost the curved floorplates ?? sure looks like it in the picture, anyone think the same ?

[High Times]

Does the 'exceptional balcony space' correlate with the floorplans? :dunno: any view to the sides?

Yes they are exceptionaly small.

[Tag_one]

...

The structure you can see is supposed to be inside the balcony space, so views to the sides should still be there... however, have we lost the curved floorplates ?? sure looks like it in the picture, anyone think the same ?

We can only see the the real shapes of the floor plates when the forms are removed. It's possible that they use straight forms and make the curve on top of it. :)

[jeffers]

We can only see the the real shapes of the floor plates when the forms are removed. It's possible that they use straight forms and make the curve on top of it. :)

Thanks for that Tag one, I've leant something new today.. fingers crossed.

[scoot68]

You'll be lucky to be able to cross your legs on that balcony

[Dubai_Steve]

"A complication occurred with the Torch, in that there was a communication error, this lead to the construction company working off some older plans. The tapered section of the building was put on the incorrect floor. This floor has taken slightly longer than a normal residential floor, and the Project Managers are using this extended time to ensure The Torch complies with new and improved Dubai regulatory requirements. This is now completely rectified, with the tapered and mechanical floor in the correct place. This has had very little affect on completion due to additional works taking place internally whilst this was rectified.

The slip form has been adjusted now to cater for the adjustment and slightly smaller floor plate. The building now remains with this size floor plate until the building tops out. "

[True Blue]

"A complication occurred with the Torch, in that there was a communication error, this lead to the construction company working off some older plans. The tapered section of the building was put on the incorrect floor. This floor has taken slightly longer than a normal residential floor, and the Project Managers are using this extended time to ensure The Torch complies with new and improved Dubai regulatory requirements. This is now completely rectified, with the tapered and mechanical floor in the correct place. This has had very little affect on completion due to additional works taking place internally whilst this was rectified.

The slip form has been adjusted now to cater for the adjustment and slightly smaller floor plate. The building now remains with this size floor plate until the building tops out. "

Well done getting that resolved.

I don't accept the second bolded statement even in the wrong tense. How can they say that when they are no where near complete!

[FWIW]

^^True Blue - I regard you as an expert and someone that normally posts great construction info.

Can I just ask: why the absolute hatred for Select Property? Have you invested with them?

[mackie1964]

He was unsuccessful at securing employment with DS/SG, he was not good enough to pass the first module at the Wilmslow collage :lol::banana:

I don’t think he hates them at all. I think he has one of the most balanced views here and not blinded from day one by the sales rubbish. We need some people to balance Morris and the DS/SG propaganda machine. :banana:

I sometimes feel embarrassed for DS/SG listening to some of their excuses and especially when sales people start to explain to me about the Torch and BC construction. :ohno:

[Morrismarina]

Come on guys........SP have been very forthcomming in admitting the reason why the floor problem occured. To be honest I didn't expect them to say so in this month's update so we need to be fair to them and acknowledge this. Never a possibility from TB who's continual slating of SP has worn me down so much that I simply don't notice it any more. :lol:

SP's communication/updates are fair superior to all other developers. Take for example Tiger, who can't even answer the phone or emails. And what about Tameer one of the SSC darlings ?? I've never seen an update from them on SSC !! Come to think of it I've never seen an update from Cayan either !!

[mackie1964]

You are probably right about communications if you are one of most of their investors who never bother to check, visit or research. We (including DS Staff) get most of our information from this site and a couple of others. They have always played catch up with SSC (they admitted this several times). :cheers:

[High Times]

Morris,

If they knew about Law no. 13 on August 14th, why do you think it took them so long to inform everyone of the implications of this law.

Furthermore why do they not yet know the specifics of the law when they have an in house legal department to deal with issues such as this. As a result it would appear that fees are due in 11 days and they dont yet know how the amount due is to be calculated.

[Morrismarina]

I've no idea. All sounds very odd to me. The letter seems to be indicating that they are checking which purchase price is being used for those on the Long Term Payment Plan. But surely they would know what the fee is for those on the standard plan as there's no issue over the purchase price - so why are they not asking those on the standard plan to make the payment now ?

[mackie1964]

Have you gone and resigned again :lol:

[High Times]

Delete

[Morrismarina]

I'm on gardening leave again. :nuts:

[Morrismarina]

Last edited by High Times; Today at 08:58 PM. Reason: Morris playing silly bastards

:weird:

[High Times]

Last edited by High Times; Today at 08:58 PM. Reason: Morris playing silly bastards

:weird:

I answered your original post 7236, before you edited it 3 times and my reply made no sense whatsoever.

Your original post was " Why are you asking me ?"

You edit your posts more than the world heavyweight champion of post editing in training for the post editing olympics. :lol:

[Morrismarina]

:hilarious

[THEPOINT]

Morris,

If they knew about Law no. 13 on August 14th, why do you think it took them so long to inform everyone of the implications of this law.

Furthermore why do they not yet know the specifics of the law when they have an in house legal department to deal with issues such as this. As a result it would appear that fees are due in 11 days and they dont yet know how the amount due is to be calculated.

HT, but why haven't ANY of the other six developers in DUBAI that I deal with contacted me at all about the 1%+1% at least SP have raised this issue, I still hope live in hope the have got it wrong !

[Sheltie]

I've no idea. All sounds very odd to me. The letter seems to be indicating that they are checking which purchase price is being used for those on the Long Term Payment Plan. But surely they would know what the fee is for those on the standard plan as there's no issue over the purchase price - so why are they not asking those on the standard plan to make the payment now ?

I am on standard plan and have sent off the money already. Did everyone else get their bill?
I have also bought 2 apartments elsewhere but haven't heard anything from them about this. Do you think I should have?

[Caoi1971]

Hi guys,
I am new to this. I bought a marina facing apt off plan late 2005. Can someone share with me the implications of the Marina Sky Towers ? Does this mean that there will be absoutely now Marina View from the Torch from a marina view apartment ? Does anyone know if DS have any intention of compensating for this ?

Also, does anyone have any idea what the current market rate per sqf would be if I was thinking of selling.

Thanks,

Caoi

[Dubai_Steve]

Marina Sky Towers has been cancelled or will be redesigned. May know more after Cityscape this October. If it is to go ahead as originally planned there will be a minimal marina view to both sides for marina facing apts. for units above floor 15.

Market rate is minimum AED 1600 per sq/ft for a quick sale for marina view apt.

[Dubai_Steve]

I have also bought 2 apartments elsewhere but haven't heard anything from them about this. Do you think I should have?

Yes you need to check this up with your developers.

Something that occured to me is that it may only be a few developers like Select that require this to be paid as the UK Dubai Select company was acting as a 3rd party selling off-plan to Torch Select Dubai.

[foxy]

He was unsuccessful at securing employment with DS/SG, he was not good enough to pass the first module at the Wilmslow collage :lol::banana:

I don’t think he hates them at all. I think he has one of the most balanced views here and not blinded from day one by the sales rubbish. We need some people to balance Morris and the DS/SG propaganda machine. :banana:
I sometimes feel embarrassed for DS/SG listening to some of their excuses and especially when sales people start to explain to me about the Torch and BC construction. :ohno:

couldn't agree more.

[High Times]

HT, but why haven't ANY of the other six developers in DUBAI that I deal with contacted me at all about the 1%+1% at least SP have raised this issue, I still hope live in hope the have got it wrong !

My lawyer has advised me only to pay 1% directly to the Land Department based on the original purchase price and not LPP price, IF and only IF SP demand it in writing specificaly for this FEE.

Good point Steve regarding 3rd party sales and the fact that SP have a linear company formation so 3rd party sales could be the reason why we are getting billed now.

[Tosh]

I am same as "Sheltie"....On a standard payment plan.
Also recd.a letter last week and paid thereafter.