Not sure of interior finish, but the exterior will look stunning with all that glass. Just look how plain the princess looks.:lol:

thanks AltinD

Thanks AltinD. Great contrast.
Not happy with the progress to date but must admit very happy with current speed. Can only hope they keep this pace up till it's topped out and DCE don't move the core/formwork teams to other projects.

Torch beach view apartments:)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/716/p1010040hg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

wishful thinking...

Encouraging Quote from "AME info news"

'No defaults' on Dubai property"
United Arab Emirates: Monday, December 01 - 2008 at 11:40
Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority has said that there have so far been no defaults on payments for high-end properties. 'Every project on the ground and under construction would be completed. Master developers are intact and the high-end third party developers may find alternatives to carry on with their projects through bulk selling of units to private equity funds and hedge funds,' Rera's CEO told Emirates Business.

I spoke to someone last night, whose identity I won't mention or allude to as this person asked me not to do so, who is in a position to comment about such things. The gist of the message is that we shouldn't be worried about the solvency of Select Property and its ability to complete The Torch.

^^I spoke to him too! How amazing!

This is what he said:

yjnvSQuv-H4

FWIW, that was funny mate

I spoke to someone last night, whose identity I won't mention or allude to as this person asked me not to do so, who is in a position to comment about such things. The gist of the message is that we shouldn't be worried about the solvency of Select Property and its ability to complete The Torch.

The CEO of Northern Rock :dunno:

^^ Exactly what I had considered recently.

If SP are not spending as much on construction due to the extensive delays they have on ALL their developments, yet they are collecting upto 90% of the sale then they should be excessivly liquid. So all this cash should be in a bank account. How are the banks finances?

We all know they have stopped giving out mortgages and funding to developers so are they having problems with their reserves. If SP were to do a run on the bank would that bank collapse?

I really dont see problem here with TT it is getting built and since I have only been invested 15 months the structure has grown reasonably well (apart from the mid summer cock up !)- those who invested at the beginning have seen major delays but will have been compensated in that they only paid 750aed psf ish ? I'm afraid it is luck of the draw in DUBAI I,ve been burned worse elsewhere in the UAE

SP is not all bad i,m still hoping to rent out my Torch apts by MARCH 2011 ?

Although i think Cayan have done cracking Jobs elsewhere in DM they
haven't exactly excelled with Infinity have they ? (although wish i had got in there in the begginnning despite delays its too much psf now )

Yes progress is finally very good now. I paid 983 psf almost 4 years ago, at least 2 years more to wait, by which time the price will be back down to 983 no doubt. In the meantime they want to delay paying compensation :(

Yes progress is finally very good now. I paid 983 psf almost 4 years ago, at least 2 years more to wait, by which time the price will be back down to 983 no doubt. In the meantime they want to delay paying compensation :(

prices to go back to 983psf??? :nuts:
how about those that bought in the last 2yrs (me included)?
according to your numbers, we will face a colossal loss.

i want to find it hard to believe.

The good thing about the delay is that we are entitled to all money paid including interest paid to be refunded now that they are in breech of contract. So it is not possible to make a loss especially with the dollar rate. This may be a better option than selling if the Market drops badly and no compensation is paid to help make ongoing payments.

Why will prices be back down to 983 psf in 2 years time ?

Why will prices be back down to 983 psf in 2 years time ?

Hopefullly they will never do, but if there is 2 more years of serious global crisis it is a possibility. At least we are covered in the case that they do go below this and we want out or if we find it difficult to continue to make payments, that is my point.

Hopefullly they will never do, but if there is 2 more years of serious global crisis it is a possibility. At least we are covered in the case that they do go below this and we want out or if we find it difficult to continue to make payments, that is my point.

There seems to be alot of panic setting in here guys. A family member of mine has just sold his 2 bed Torch on 18th floor on resale at 1473 psf which is not bad. I have been speaking to a few agents and they say there are signs that things are picking up. I would be surprised if marina apt prices ever got anywhere near 1000 psf because that would put alot of people that have bought in the marina over last 3 years in trouble.

^^1473 seems to be a good price, was that a recent sale? Any idea which agent sold it?

Great Photos Altin, Many thanks. I like them all except for the one with the T**t that sold me my apartments wearing number 7. :cheers:

So are all four of Kurzweil's primary postulates correct yet?

Great Photos Altin, Many thanks. I like them all except for the one with the T**t that sold me my apartments wearing number 7. :cheers:

He is spending his commission…….. made from your transaction.:lol:

Great Photos Altin, Many thanks. I like them all except for the one with the T**t that sold me my apartments wearing number 7. :cheers:

I bet he was thinking you were a T**T when you brought not knowing what you were getting in front. :lol::lol:The Points looking good!

Not until 2045 (The nonbiological intelligence created in that year will be one billion times more powerful than all human intelligence today)

Isn't that an oxymoron, as the nonbiological intelligence created, will have been created by human intelilgence, so in effect is reliant upon human intelligence for it's existance ?

What i am saying is that until nonbiological intelligence can become self replicating the criteria can't be met.

We must be on floor 41/42 by now i would of thought. Floor 42 represents a significant milestone as we will be 50% complete from a structural point of view at least. In this current world of gloom and doom, at least all of us Torch investors have something to be happy about. :banana:

Isn't that an oxymoron, as the nonbiological intelligence created, will have been created by human intelilgence, so in effect is reliant upon human intelligence for it's existance ?

What i am saying is that until nonbiological intelligence can become self replicating the criteria can't be met.

We must be on floor 41/42 by now i would of thought. Floor 42 represents a significant milestone as we will be 50% complete from a structural point of view at least. In this current world of gloom and doom, at least all of us Torch investors have something to be happy about. :banana:

Agreed don't know why the doom and gloom recently about whether this will be completed this will be great when finished and i think is is full swing now for Early to Middle 2011 Handover

Looking at a picture Dboy has uploaded on the Park Island thread it looks like now they are on the 42nd floor, High Times you are right, a milestone has been reached..:cheers:

Come on, find somewhere else to do the endless bitching and whining about select properties and tons of other crap. :ohno:

Come on, find somewhere else to do the endless bitching and whining about select properties and tons of other crap. :ohno:

who deleted all the posts?

hope this is not like Dubai, problems with free speech

Come on, find somewhere else to do the endless bitching and whining about select properties and tons of other crap. :ohno:

Well done malec, about time someone got a grip of the endless drivel being repeated here.

Good job.

:applause:

Look dick head dont you get it. Nobody wants to talk about your bullshit.

You have even resorted to quoting your own comments so that you can continue to create unessacary worry about this situation.

1-If you have paid then you will have confirmation from your side of the transaction.

2-You can also get confirmation from Masreq Bank that they recieved the funds.

3-You can also get confirmation from your account manager that Select have the funds.

4- If you speak to the Land department in Dubai they will tell you that they are processing things in date order and it may take months to get your registration docs.

You keep bleeting on about your escrow account. Select property were introducing escrow accounts before anyone else and before it was a legal requirement.

Now go away. It's boring now.

High Times, you are very impolite, please refrain from such agression as clearly you are biased.

You sound like Naz U.K. 2 years ago , now look, he is laughing at Torch investors after claiming he has recently pulled all his money out of Dubai. 2 years ago he defended the developer and ridiculed ligitimate complaints raised on this forum.

I am waiting to hear if anyone has had confirmation that their money sent to the previously unheard of 'Select Developments Limited' bank account (not the safe 'escrow' account for Torch Select) has been used for registration with confirmation from the land dept, it's been quite a while now.

I would also like to know why Dubai Steve is so confident that the money deposited by innocent investors into this new account is being used to register their properties and nothing else.

Dubai Steve, I'm still awaiting your explanation.

^^ I sent you a PM about it.

The Torch can now be seen on the latest version of Google earth

http://i33.tinypic.com/35088pc.jpg

^^ great news!

i checked just 3 days ago and the emaar sale centre was still there. what a great xmas present from google.

any latest pics of construction progress ? The showroom apt pics should be released by SP this month.

The good thing about the delay is that we are entitled to all money paid including interest paid to be refunded now that they are in breech of contract. So it is not possible to make a loss especially with the dollar rate. This may be a better option than selling if the Market drops badly and no compensation is paid to help make ongoing payments.

Well I'm afraid all the investors might be in for quite a shock. All the developer has to do is claim Force Majeure, then clause 15.3 is king, which will mean no compensation, and best of all, wait for it.....

In June 2009 the developer can cancel the contract if clause 15.3 is enacted. All monies paid will be handed back. No compensation or damages. End of your contract.

After that I would say they go off and sell the apartments at June 2009 rates, making a (vast?) profit for themselves, zero profit for the investors! Or have I got it wrong? !!

^^ TRUE

^^ But the definition of : is:

Force Majeure (French for "superior force") is a common clause in contracts which essentially frees both parties from liability or obligation when an extraordinary event or circumstance beyond the control of the parties, such as a war, strike, riot, crime, or act of God (e.g., flooding, earthquake, volcano), prevents one or both parties from fulfilling their obligations under the contract. However, force majeure is not intended to excuse negligence or other malfeasance of a party, as where non-performance is caused by the usual and natural consequences of external forces (e.g., predicted rain stops an outdoor event), or where the intervening circumstances are specifically contemplated.


so therefore force majeure will not happen for the torch.

The Dubai authorities not giving license or permission to proceed with the construction is sufficient to justify execution of 'force majeure'

We have it in writing from Select that the delays so far are not due to force majeure, so no need to panic.

^^That's true, & them having enough time to build it during the stable period from lunch to present date, surly cant allow them to claim a later date delay as Force Majeure.
Problems out of the agreed construction dates should not have affected it as it should have been up by now.
What I'm trying to say that Force Majeure cant be open ended.

^^ But the definition of : is:

Force Majeure (French for "superior force") is a common clause in contracts which essentially frees both parties from liability or obligation when an extraordinary event or circumstance beyond the control of the parties, such as a war, strike, riot, crime, or act of God (e.g., flooding, earthquake, volcano), prevents one or both parties from fulfilling their obligations under the contract. However, force majeure is not intended to excuse negligence or other malfeasance of a party, as where non-performance is caused by the usual and natural consequences of external forces (e.g., predicted rain stops an outdoor event), or where the intervening circumstances are specifically contemplated.


so therefore force majeure will not happen for the torch.

I agree with this. Also I don't think the authorities failing to grant a licence would (a) happen or (b) constitute force majeure according to the contract. And in any case, if they tried to cancel the whole thing under force majeure then continue with it and sell to other people, there's be an outcry, a complaint to RERA, lots of adverse publicity and a huge court case...

I agree with this. Also I don't think the authorities failing to grant a licence would (a) happen or (b) constitute force majeure according to the contract. And in any case, if they tried to cancel the whole thing under force majeure then continue with it and sell to other people, there's be an outcry, a complaint to RERA, lots of adverse publicity and a huge court case...

Well, we've heard that the developer Torch Select Ltd. is currently 'evaluating the reasons for the delay'. If anyone has had anything in writing direct from the developer stating otherwise I would be most surprised. Expect to hear 31st Dec.

who deleted all the posts?

hope this is not like Dubai, problems with free speech

No, it's different ... there is NO free speech in here. :lol:

if they tried to cancel the whole thing under force majeure then continue with it and sell to other people, there's be an outcry, a complaint to RERA, lots of adverse publicity and a huge court case...

You can count on that. :okay:

Well, we've heard that the developer Torch Select Ltd. is currently 'evaluating the reasons for the delay'. If anyone has had anything in writing direct from the developer stating otherwise I would be most surprised. Expect to hear 31st Dec.

What? Santa is not coming................I am really worried now :bash::bash:

To be honest, I think this is now becoming a bit of a joke, there are many of us that purchased unit/units back as far as 2005, and have always met their contractual requirements in making the required payments, but for Select to drag this compensation issue out like this is just plain rude ! They should treat their customers with more respect than this especially when they are so far behind on delivering the units which is enough of a kick in the teeth ! argh...

OK, that's my moan out of the way, has anyone any construction updates or pictures they can share from the last few days (i think they at the level of my 1st unit ATM)

Pinnacle, have exactly the same problems. I think at the moment, I would just be quite happy to get my money back. Unlike English Law, Dubai it seems can do what ever they want.

Most can get all money back with the Torch after Jan 1st. Many will do this if they do not pay compensation. May be more profitable than selling in current climate since all interest paid so far at 7%-8% is also paid back for those on the LPP.

Most can get all money back with the Torch after Jan 1st. Many will do this if they do not pay compensation. May be more profitable than selling in current climate since all interest paid so far at 7%-8% is also paid back for those on the LPP.

Maybe, but given the lenght of time that the developer Torch Select Ltd, has spent since people sent their land registration fee to the company called 'Select Developments' and still no confirmation that any registrations have been completed (or even started?), how long would it take to get money back from the developer Torch Select Ltd. ??

Guys any news or photos of the show apartments in torch yet ???,it should be ready by now, get a move on select group ,if you are reading this, it can't be that difficult to finish 1 completed unit.

check this out guys http://www.arabianbusiness.com/537987-strength-in-numbers

^^ nice advert for select there.

This was an interesting point:

Roughly 60% of our sales used to come from the UK. It's probably now 35% of sales coming from the UK," he says.

Fortunately, Stott explains he has seen continued interest from the US, Pakistan, India, Moscow, Norway and the Middle East.

Doesn't he have that "butter wouldn't melt in his mouth" look?:cheers:

http://i33.tinypic.com/xmsf0i.jpg

Well I'm afraid all the investors might be in for quite a shock. All the developer has to do is claim Force Majeure, then clause 15.3 is king, which will mean no compensation, and best of all, wait for it.....

In June 2009 the developer can cancel the contract if clause 15.3 is enacted. All monies paid will be handed back. No compensation or damages. End of your contract.

After that I would say they go off and sell the apartments at June 2009 rates, making a (vast?) profit for themselves, zero profit for the investors! Or have I got it wrong? !!

If anyone wishes to seek confirmation that Torch Select Ltd. will not invoke clause 15.3 and start cancelling contracts in June 2009, then they should contact the developer directly, Torch Select Ltd. and ask for a written statement that they will not invoke clause 15.3.

See the following from the Bay Central forum, our friend morrismarina:


Quote:
Originally Posted by buster007
How do you explain below taken from the homepage of www.selectproperty.com?

Select Investment Property
Select Property is the UK’s leading private developer of off-plan overseas investment property in the United Arab Emirates.

The company has a proven track record of delivering award winning projects that offer exceptional financial returns, supported by unrivalled customer service.

Sorry I can't explain any of this I'm afraid.

All I know is that SP are not the developer of TT or BC. SP admit this themselves all the time when you speak to them.........they say they need to "refer to the developer" ...... which to be fair to them is absolutely correct. They are simply the sales agent based in the UK. They issue contracts and attend to adminstration work as a selling agent of the developer. This is the legal position. Just the same as say Better Homes selling units in Princess for Tameer......not sure if they do, but you know what I mean as an example here.

Select Property is Mark Stott and Select Group is Rahail Aslam...... hence why they now refer to their projects as being a partnership between SP and SG. Also this is why there are two separate websites.

www.selectproperty.com

www.select-group.ae/

If any action is taken with RERA they will not be interested in a Company based in Wilmslow as they have no power to regulate UK companies. All they will be concerned about is the developer registered with them in Dubai which is Bay Central Phase 1 Developments Limited......... and what the developer has confirmed or not confirmed to investors.

Let's wise up folks and if we're looking for formal confirmation of anything, to put in our files, in our diaries, or present to RERA, or whatever........then we need it from the developer not SP.

17/December/2008

Dubai Marina, tallest block

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4648/imresolt03hy6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5830/imresolt04jq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8915/imresolt05aq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1659/imresolt06aj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/574/imresolt14jg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4084/imresolt27ol8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nice pics Imre, do you know what floor we are on presently.

preparing the formwork for floorplate 43 i think.

So 45 by year end hopefully

Imre - Köszönöm. :)

Awesome, Looks like a have a ceiling on my 1st unit... Just shame its not Let and earning me rent !!

Many thanks Imre for your pictures once again.

Marina facing owners must be ecstatic at this world wide slump in new buyers:lol:

Marina facing owners must be ecstatic at this world wide slump in new buyers:lol:

The major problem for marina facing apt owners is that once the MST starts there will loud construction noise for 4-5 yrs which could effect rental income.

Was there not a deadline imposted that all construction needed to be completed by a certain date in time.. 2012 rings a bell.. can someone with more knowledge in this correct me or confirm this.

Stop slagging each others views girls

Was there not a deadline imposted that all construction needed to be completed by a certain date in time.. 2012 rings a bell.. can someone with more knowledge in this correct me or confirm this.

No deadline I'm affraid

Screw the appt views. Get a boat :) That's where the real views are.

^^& cheaper :lol:

The major problem for marina facing apt owners is that once the MST starts there will loud construction noise for 4-5 yrs which could effect rental income.

I'm sure there might be someone with just a little bit of Wasta who owns a hotel next door that might be able to influence noise and working hours. I dont think the Hotel will be losing out due to construction issues. In fact this was one reason that the original MST was reduced by more than 50%. The owner of the hotel made it so.

"Neighbours, everybody needs good neighbours, with a little understanding, we can make a perfect daaaaaaaaaaaay.

http://i39.tinypic.com/25i9dzm.jpg

No deadline I'm affraid

OH well, wishful thinking on my part.

Actually there was a deadline of 2012 set by Sheikh Mo and publicly announced in the newspapers but I think they gave up on the idea now. :dunno:

If anyone wishes to seek confirmation that Torch Select Ltd. will not invoke clause 15.3 and start cancelling contracts in June 2009, then they should contact the developer directly, Torch Select Ltd. and ask for a written statement that they will not invoke clause 15.3.

See the following from the Bay Central forum, our friend morrismarina:


Quote:
Originally Posted by buster007
How do you explain below taken from the homepage of www.selectproperty.com?

Select Investment Property
Select Property is the UK’s leading private developer of off-plan overseas investment property in the United Arab Emirates.

The company has a proven track record of delivering award winning projects that offer exceptional financial returns, supported by unrivalled customer service.

Sorry I can't explain any of this I'm afraid.

All I know is that SP are not the developer of TT or BC. SP admit this themselves all the time when you speak to them.........they say they need to "refer to the developer" ...... which to be fair to them is absolutely correct. They are simply the sales agent based in the UK. They issue contracts and attend to adminstration work as a selling agent of the developer. This is the legal position. Just the same as say Better Homes selling units in Princess for Tameer......not sure if they do, but you know what I mean as an example here.

Select Property is Mark Stott and Select Group is Rahail Aslam...... hence why they now refer to their projects as being a partnership between SP and SG. Also this is why there are two separate websites.

www.selectproperty.com

www.select-group.ae/

If any action is taken with RERA they will not be interested in a Company based in Wilmslow as they have no power to regulate UK companies. All they will be concerned about is the developer registered with them in Dubai which is Bay Central Phase 1 Developments Limited......... and what the developer has confirmed or not confirmed to investors.

Let's wise up folks and if we're looking for formal confirmation of anything, to put in our files, in our diaries, or present to RERA, or whatever........then we need it from the developer not SP.


The could also do this "force majeure thingy to the point and also bay central, the chances are low, their has been no earthquake etc etc etc.

19/December/2008

The Torch

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6066/imresolt044lj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3445/imresolt045kk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8933/imresolt046gh5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Many thanks Imre :hug:

Only a few days and I should get my first compensation cheque :cheers:

^^ roll on Jan 1st, I can't wait to see my compensation cheque in the post. :cheers:

Top Dog Imre ,looking good its coming along surley but slowly, Thanks for the great shots Imre.

^^ roll on Jan 1st, I can't wait to see my compensation cheque in the post. :cheers:

Steve, are you expecting back dated compensation for the period select have had your cash or just ongoing compensation at the prevailing rate ?

^^ the later.

Many thanks Imre :hug:

Only a few days and I should get my first compensation cheque :cheers:

My compensation cheque has arrived.

Many thanks Imre :hug:

Only a few days and I should get my first compensation cheque :cheers:

Dream on :lol:

Lads mine just came through the post just now by special delivery from select

Lads mine just came through the post just now by special delivery from select

Wow your postman works late on a friday.

Lets get back to the construction progress.

Cladding coming along very nicely. We should hopefully have 45 floors completed by end of the month so not bad going for the year. Hopefully we should get to see the showroom apt pics this month.

Lets get back to the construction progress.

Cladding coming along very nicely. We should hopefully have 45 floors completed by end of the month so not bad going for the year. Hopefully we should get to see the showroom apt pics this month.

Looking forward to showroom pics - please no moaning about the Kitchens LOL

1st time post-er so please bear with me.

Does anyone have a simulation of view from 21st floor 1 bed apt- Sea View?

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8822/imresolt053px7.jpg

20/December/2008

The Torch

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2917/imresolt002pa2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6730/imresolt057fs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/402/imresolt062sp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Imre, thanks your a real star !!. Is this your job or just a full time hobby?? Anyway, so what is the official floor number now?

thanks, just a full time hobby :)

this place seems incomplete without Morrismarina giving his 5 pence worth here and there - has he withdrawn from SSC or even Dubai???

Dream on :lol:

I'm sorry to everyone that I may have thrown confusion at.

THE POINT was in fact correct, I was dreaming that the compensation cheque had arrived.

My apology to all on the post. I thought it was too good to be true myself, but it was a very realistic, if unrealistic, dream.

FYI, I sent a letter to a senior figure in SP a couple of weeks ago asking some very specific questions about the progress, insurance against delays, , Escrow and compensation areas, and requesting they get the answers from Select Group in Dubai. As yet, I have had no reply, not even an acknowledgement, but will update you if I get one, or indeed, if I really do get a cheque in the post for that matter!


The Torch

MorrisMarina where are yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou

Yes i miss Morris too. Maybe he has got a new job as a currency trader, he seemed to know exactly what he was talking about when discussing Sterling v Dollar.

Enjoy

http://i43.tinypic.com/2z99o51.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2m3lqoz.jpg

^^ :applause:That second pic could fool many people who are not aware of the current situation. Be careful it doesn't get used to sell the Torch units as complete !

^^ great job. btw, are TT's proportions right?

merry xmas to you all.

It's always had a widebottom! Yecabel

???

okay! Units upto floor 30 are bigger in size.

MorrisMarina where are yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou

Morris persuaded lots of unsuspecting people to buy in BC and Botanica for the referal commission.

Now they are sending him horses heads, so he decided to lay low for a while.:goodnight

Wow that moved on Quick froM floor 43 lol -- thaNks HT
God I wish PT and ER woud stay at current height too - nice Seaviews then

Wow that moved on Quick froM floor 43 lol -- thaNks HT
God I wish PT and ER woud stay at current height too - nice Seaviews then

Think they got the crew over from Ocean Heights to give it that final push !! :lol:

Guys, I have a 1 bed completed apartment in the Torch,fully furnished for rent 12 months fixed contract, AED 140,000 PA with a rent increase 12 month later any takers ???

Guys, I have a 1 bed completed apartment in the Torch,fully furnished for rent 12 months fixed contract, AED 140,000 PA with a rent increase 12 month later any takers ???

Go on, I will go first... so what's the puch line..

Select Property has refrained from contributing to the opinions exchanged in this forum up until now as we have always viewed it as public space where comments are freely posted and discussed, rather than a commercial forum for developers to promote their projects. However, very few people and companies are left unaffected by changes in the global economy over the past few months, leading to speculation about the security and stability of even the best-regarded companies and the progress of their developments. The landscape for property developers, investors, owners and service providers in the UAE and the world over has clearly changed and as a result we understand how sentiment towards companies like Select Property has changed with it.

From reading this forum it is clear that Select Property’s valued customers expect more information and reassurance than ever before, and so our primary objective over the weeks and months that follow will be to find the ways and means to give whatever reassurance is required. Whilst we do not feel that the attention we give to the after-sales service we provided to purchasers has changed clearly some of you do, and so we will strive to continue to improve in this area. For a start, we feel that we have no alternative but to step in and uphold the integrity of this development in this forum, as well as through our usual communication media (construction updates, MySelectProperty.com, regular letters and email bulletins). By doing so we aim to both reassure customers and also correct some popular misconceptions perpetuated in this and other threads within this forum – notably in the first instance that we ‘don’t care’ about the opinions expressed here.

With thousands of customers spanning over fifty countries and multiple languages, it is unfortunately not possible to personalise every piece of communication that is sent out from our business every day. Over the last month in particular therefore, I and many of my senior colleagues have spent increasing amounts of our time speaking to our many purchasers from all around the world. It is arguably the most important use of our time in the current period.
It is regrettable that many of the comments I read and hear are simply untrue, and some are expressed with hostility or a lack of professional respect for our employees or your fellow investors which is undeserved. For everybody else I am happy to take calls at our UK office on any of the developments we promote, to listen to your views and accept your criticism, and between us we will try and answer any questions you have.

We have always offered a level of service and support which has made us stand out from other developers and sales agents we are compared to, as a result of which we have enjoyed high levels of repeat business and recommendation. We can and will raise our efforts to do so again as the stakes get higher in the current challenging market conditions.

(Giles Beswick)

Select Property has refrained from contributing to the opinions exchanged in this forum up until now as we have always viewed it as public space where comments are freely posted and discussed, rather than a commercial forum for developers to promote their projects. However, very few people and companies are left unaffected by changes in the global economy over the past few months, leading to speculation about the security and stability of even the best-regarded companies and the progress of their developments. The landscape for property developers, investors, owners and service providers in the UAE and the world over has clearly changed and as a result we understand how sentiment towards companies like Select Property has changed with it.

From reading this forum it is clear that Select Property’s valued customers expect more information and reassurance than ever before, and so our primary objective over the weeks and months that follow will be to find the ways and means to give whatever reassurance is required. Whilst we do not feel that the attention we give to the after-sales service we provided to purchasers has changed clearly some of you do, and so we will strive to continue to improve in this area. For a start, we feel that we have no alternative but to step in and uphold the integrity of this development in this forum, as well as through our usual communication media (construction updates, MySelectProperty.com, regular letters and email bulletins). By doing so we aim to both reassure customers and also correct some popular misconceptions perpetuated in this and other threads within this forum – notably in the first instance that we ‘don’t care’ about the opinions expressed here.

With thousands of customers spanning over fifty countries and multiple languages, it is unfortunately not possible to personalise every piece of communication that is sent out from our business every day. Over the last month in particular therefore, I and many of my senior colleagues have spent increasing amounts of our time speaking to our many purchasers from all around the world. It is arguably the most important use of our time in the current period.
It is regrettable that many of the comments I read and hear are simply untrue, and some are expressed with hostility or a lack of professional respect for our employees or your fellow investors which is undeserved. For everybody else I am happy to take calls at our UK office on any of the developments we promote, to listen to your views and accept your criticism, and between us we will try and answer any questions you have.

We have always offered a level of service and support which has made us stand out from other developers and sales agents we are compared to, as a result of which we have enjoyed high levels of repeat business and recommendation. We can and will raise our efforts to do so again as the stakes get higher in the current challenging market conditions.

(Giles Beswick)

Giles,

It's great to hear from you on this forum, and your commitment to provide additional assurances and uphold the integrity of the development via this forum is to be welcomed. That said, we remain somewhat in the dark, in that your post constitutes a statement of intent to improve communications at an unspecified future date, rather than containing any concrete additional information that might be expected to reassure any of us.

You will be aware that you and I have been in email correspondence about my three Torch apartments. I've repeatedly asked you to provide evidence that the developer is not in breach of clause 9.3 of the sale and purchase agreement (the one obliging it to use its reasonable endeavours to complete the project on time) and have so far received no tangible response. If the developer has failed in this regard, purchasers may be eligible for damages - which is a different matter than the contractual compensation scheme.

Talking of which, I think one of the things that's causing a lack of confidence is that there has so far been no clear statement about how the compensation - such as it is - outlined in the sale and purchase agreement will work. We all expected to have taken delivery of our apartments by now and our first annual rental cheques ought to be going into our bank accounts in the next 10 days, so anything that reduces our instalments now, rather than crediting the LIBOR (for which currency?) against future payments would make things more palatable.

It is regrettable that many of the comments I read and hear are simply untrue, and some are expressed with hostility or a lack of professional respect for our employees or your fellow investors which is undeserved.
(Giles Beswick)

on completion dates just to name one issue, how about some 'professional respect' for investors and their intelligence?

Giles, thanks, brave move, stand by for some fun, this should move us forwards a few pages if nothing else..

I am very happy to see the building rise a level each time I seem to see a new picture. I will be interested, like most, to your responses to the two main basic questions that have already been raised, (compensation and completion) .. good luck.. oh and, is or when, will there be a mock up to see?

Since announcing a delay in the projected completion date of Bay Central the developer, Select Group, has today also confirmed that all future payment instalments are moving back by three months, giving all purchasers a payment ‘holiday’ extending for some until the final quarter of 2009. It is hoped that by introducing measures like these they can alleviate the financial pressures on investors in the short term and mitigate the impact of the unforeseen delays.

(Giles Beswick)

Posted on the Bay Central Thread...

How about delaying payments for the Torch investors as SP are already 6 months behind contacted completion and only built half way up so far ??

Giles,

Thank you for your post, although like some of the others, I can't seem to elicit any new facts from your post, other than you stating that you're happy to listen to our views and criticisms, although I see that the word 'respond' isn’t mentioned.

At the most basic level, we're repeatedly told that the schedule for completion remains at Sept 09? Can you confirm on this forum that SP is still working to this timeframe and that it’s realistic or else update us accordingly? if this information is available at the end of the line, let me know and I will call you directly.

This might be a difficult pill to swallow for many of us, but getting an honest, albeit painful answer to this question might play significantly in your favour in trying to build/rebuild investor trust. then, maybe we can focus on the issue of compensation, which is extremely ill-defined, considering it comes into play in little under 2 weeks.

Happy Christmas and regards

From reading this forum it is clear that Select Property’s valued customers expect more information and reassurance than ever before, and so our primary objective over the weeks and months that follow will be to find the ways and means to give whatever reassurance is required.

At a bare minimum reassurance is needed that select will pay compensation quarterly.

Many of select's customers will depend on the compensation payments to be made in order to help prevent defaulting on quarterly payments over the next 2 or 3 years until occupation and rental is possible.

Rather than defaulting I understand that there is now the option to have all money paid including interest paid refunded from select instead which I am sure many may unfortunately have to resort to doing. I sincerely hope these actions will not affect select and can easily be avoided.

I hope it will not take you many weeks and months to write and mailshot a simple letter detailing this information to customers and helping them through these difficult times, rather than let speculation affect your company image on public forums read by 1000s of potential customers who find this information on google.

It is a shame that things have come to this point, select is usually rated extremely highly here on customer relations.

Hopefully some positive news in the new year will turn opinion around.

I was about to answer and educate them a little but I thought about their previous posts on this forum and decided that I was wasting my time. Just answer some simple questions about completion date, compensation, internal finishes and facilities. The same questions that have been asked thousands time without some real answers. Enough of this sales and spin.

Your post read exactly the same as in 2005, three years later.:bash::bash:

@Ben; I am amazed at your response Mate :nuts:

Enjoy



Can you photoshop ALL supertalls of the tallest block into the picture high times....? Am curious how it will look from the angle of the first picture.

They always want to talk on the phone and not put things in writing ... hmm, funny that.

Select Property has refrained from contributing to the opinions exchanged in this forum up until now as we have always viewed it as public space where comments are freely posted and discussed, rather than a commercial forum for developers to promote their projects. (Giles Beswick)

that's right, this isn't a commercial forum for developers. here, rather than pr spinning, straight talk is given and expected.

some months ago someone suggested that the reason why your company is insisting on such unachievable completion's dates could be due to legal obligations with dce. what do you say to that?

Giles,

The undertone of your post is really quite defensive. The only reason some investors post comment that is to your disliking is purely of your own making.

You say he following;

It is regrettable that many of the comments I read and hear are simply untrue, and some are expressed with hostility or a lack of professional respect for our employees or your fellow investors which is undeserved. (Giles Beswick)

I’m afraid you reap what you sow Giles. Unfortunately many of the comments made by Select Property are untrue, and expressed with a total lack of respect to an investors intelligence. Completion dates, build progress, planning permissions and height restrictions of adjacent plots to name just a few.

As an educated man at a relatively senior level within your company I’m sure you understand the phrase expectation management. Select Property has failed miserably in managing the expectations of their clients, in this and all of your other developments. This is why you now feel the need to enter into dialog with members of this forum.

Personally I am not an overly dissatisfied customer as I decided to buy into the Dubai vision much later than most, purely because I did not feel it wise to throw money into a big hole in the ground until I saw some real signs of progress. Regrettably many of my fellow investors are not in the same position as me.

I find it slightly ironic that you are more willing to enter into dialog now that sales of your projects are slowing down in Dubai. After all Select Property are only sales agents for all of Select Groups developments in Dubai. Until recently your sales job has been nothing more than order taking, as the Dubai phenomenon has been a self publicising rollercoaster ride which has sent customers knocking on your door via Google and the like.

I am of the opinion that you are only here as an exercise in damage limitation. Most of your potential new clients I’m sure are astute enough to Google “the torch dubai” or other developments, and on the first page of results up comes the relevant Skyscraper city page. It hasn’t always been this way, as in the early days independent information was very hard to find. Also the fact investors can soon start to walk away from their contracts with a full refund and benefit from a positive swing in currency rates must be making the developer sweat a bit too, as a mass exodus of funds in the current climate could have a crippling effect on this and other projects.

So in this new world of a tougher sales job, coupled with investors who are looking into what they are buying before sending cheques in the post, you have made the corporate decision to use SSC as a press office and bring to heel all of these disgruntled investors who are damaging your reputation and integrity as a developer/sales agent.

I’m a bit long in the tooth for all this as I’ve seen it all before in the corporate world. It’s all very predictable as far as I’m concerned. Select Property have acted in a despicable manor in terms of not providing accurate information to clients, and you are only now willing to open up dialog when you need to limit the damage that your own actions have done to your reputation.

The most important answers you need to provide if your intentions are genuine are as follows;

1- Offer all investors a payment holiday starting on their contractual completion date until handover
2- Provide a clear explanation of precisely how compensation will be paid
3- Provide a realistic build schedule
4- Explain why Law No. 13 was implemented so rapidly yet no formal paperwork as been received from the Dubai Lands Department
5- Provide all investors with their individual Escrow account statements

Provide the right answers to all of these points and your mission is accomplished and you will leave the negative commentators with nowhere to go.

If you are genuinely keen to offer some comfort to all of your investors in this season of good will, then let’s see if you can deliver. I doubt you have the desire, nor the ability to deliver on these issues, (particularly point 1), as you are only concerned with the sales element of this organisation and carry no real weight with the developer.

Please prove me wrong Giles.

error

Well said High Times Agree with you 200% Chief...

Well said High Times Agree with you 200% Chief...

I totally stand by what High Times is saying, so Giles when you reply to your these posts, please DO take full note of what High Times was saying as this is the sentiment from a lot of investors I speak to and will cover most of our concerns.

Happy Xmas to all my fellow investors and friends.

Giles,

The undertone of your post is really quite defensive. The only reason some investors post comment that is to your disliking is purely of your own making.

You say he following;

continues....

Please prove me wrong Giles.

Very well put High Times.
Ditto for BC thread Giles!

Nice job High Times!! you are right.... I'm a MP (2 ap.) owner and, if possible, the communication is worse than this case!

Since announcing a delay in the projected completion date of Bay Central the developer, Select Group, has today also confirmed that all future payment instalments are moving back by three months, giving all purchasers a payment ‘holiday’ extending for some until the final quarter of 2009. It is hoped that by introducing measures like these they can alleviate the financial pressures on investors in the short term and mitigate the impact of the unforeseen delays.

(Giles Beswick)

Posted on the Bay Central Thread...

How about delaying payments for the Torch investors as SP are already 6 months behind contacted completion and only built half way up so far ??

Indeed. If delays are pressing to Bay Central investors, imagine how it feels to be holding three Torch apartments, six months past the anticipated completion date, with the structure barely half built...

1- Offer all investors a payment holiday starting on their contractual completion date until handover
2- Provide a clear explanation of precisely how compensation will be paid
3- Provide a realistic build schedule
4- Explain why Law No. 13 was implemented so rapidly yet no formal paperwork as been received from the Dubai Lands Department
5- Provide all investors with their individual Escrow account statements[/B]


I agree with these points. Speaking personally, on 1 January I'm handing the whole thing over to the lawyers and walking away unless I get some answers on these points. I've been asking DS, in particular Giles, about the first three points for 3-4 months now without getting a straight answer.

Giles, can you please give us clear answers to High Times' questions?

I agree with these points. Speaking personally, on 1 January I'm handing the whole thing over to the lawyers and walking away unless I get some answers on these points. I've been asking DS, in particular Giles, about the first three points for 3-4 months now without getting a straight answer.

Giles, can you please give us clear answers to High Times' questions?

Same here, I am handing this over to the lawyers in January if there is nothing.

I purchased at 983psf, I calculated that having all money paid so far returned would give me the same return as selling at 1200psf due to interest payments made and will also give me a nice profit due to the exchange rates. If I do not sell I would need to take out a loan for AED 214k (approx. UK 40k) for the next 2 years until handover and rental income is possible.

As you can see handing back the unit is a very attractive option right now. Only compensation paid quarterly or a payment holiday will change my mind.


For those that are keeping their units after Jan 1st, you should not see any units for sale at less than 1200psf because of this. 1200psf is the floor price.

^^ Steve, do you want to look out that post of mine from 2 years ago stating when buying off plan "anything over 1000/ft2 is a risk":lol:

How quickly things have turned.

That is all I wanted, a Christmas Card full of SP logo………thanks :bash:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qjysux.gif

No DS/SP/SG update for December :bash:

Office Opening Times
UK Office
Closed 23rd December 2008
until 5th January 2009
Dubai Office
Closed 24th December 2008
until 3rd January 2009
Construction Updates

As the festive season has now commenced and December is a short month, we would like to inform you that your next construction update will be issued at the end of January 2009. With November’s update released just two weeks ago, we feel it beneficial to combine the December and January updates, which will then enable us to provide you with a more detailed update on the construction of your property.

What i find SO unprofessional is that Giles from Select posts his lame message on the threads in the full knowledge that this would raise many questions from investors wanting answers, and in the full knowledge that their office will be closed on 23rd all the way until the 5th of Jan, They have still not been courteous enough to advise on the status on compensation, which is in the contract... Now investors are talking about handing back units for reasons of not fault of the investors... SO unprofessional and discourteous from Select.. SHAME ON YOU SELECT !!:ohno: treat customers like this and they won't return... End of repeat business, referrals and recomendations.

The most important answers you need to provide if your intentions are genuine are as follows;

1- Offer all investors a payment holiday starting on their contractual completion date until handover
2- Provide a clear explanation of precisely how compensation will be paid
3- Provide a realistic build schedule
4- Explain why Law No. 13 was implemented so rapidly yet no formal paperwork as been received from the Dubai Lands Department
5- Provide all investors with their individual Escrow account statements



Agreed, sign me up>>

Some relevant info from Select from May 2007


The delay which has occurred between the start of the build and now do not fall within the definition of a force majeure.

With regards to your query about the payment penalties as long as you have complied with your side of the agreement, I can confirm that you will be entitled to penalty payments from the 31st December 2008.

It has been confirmed that while the completion date has been moved back the payment schedule remains the same. I understand this news is very disappointing but I can assure you that this decision has been made at the highest level after much consultation.

As you know, on completion The Torch will be one of the first super-towers in that district of the marina. With a project of this scale there is a huge amount of forward planning to ensure materials, machinery and labour are secured in time for when it is required. Our construction partner DCE, has had to forward-book and pay for much of this resource in advance in order to secure it. Under the terms of our agreement with DCE, we have had to make the funds available to them.


Lets hope they can reverse the decision after a new consultation otherwise I can see a mass exodus of investors all handing their units back in January which will cost them tens of millions of pounds and they will not be able to sell in this market either!

The most important answers you need to provide if your intentions are genuine are as follows;

1- Offer all investors a payment holiday starting on their contractual completion date until handover
2- Provide a clear explanation of precisely how compensation will be paid
3- Provide a realistic build schedule
4- Explain why Law No. 13 was implemented so rapidly yet no formal paperwork as been received from the Dubai Lands Department
5- Provide all investors with their individual Escrow account statements



Agreed, sign me up>>

How would point 1 differ for those not on the LPP?

How would point 1 differ for those not on the LPP?

Is compensation paid on the capital paid to date or on the entire purchase price of the property?

Does anyone know what the contract says?

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j5z11l.jpg

EIBOR rate currently is 4.39375, so approx. compensation rate is 5.4%

This is approx. UK £6,500 per annum for the typical 2 bed on LPP. or approx. £15,000 before estimated handover in early 2011. This is enough to make repayments for 1 year.

Others are pussy footing. but mackie/High_T - RESPECT

Now that he has made himself open to listening to investors, he will have no choice but to deliver answers or his fat neck is on the line and it will be Mr Aslam's reputation in Dubai that will be the next port of call.

:ohno:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j5z11l.jpg

EIBOR rate currently is 4.39375, so approx. compensation rate is 5.4%

So those not on LPP will get interest on 90% of the purchase price while those on LPP will only get interest on capital paid to date.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j5z11l.jpg

I have a feeling that taking payment holiday as an offer, which I think you proposed in an earlier post, may compromise your rights to compensation. So, legal advice is essential.:cheers:

I would choose to loose all my compensation and take a 2 year payment break until occupation. I would be happy with that. At least I would not be financially crippled until 2011.

^^ Yeah, the big green fattie in the garage can wait.

FYI I've emailed Giles Beswick asking whether the post in the name of Select Property purporting to be from him really is, and if so, whether he could come back and answer the very reasonable questions that High Times, I and others have asked as a result. It's one thing to claim to want to communicate with people, quite another to actual engage in meaningful communication. And the latter is what's called for now.

^^ Steve, do you want to look out that post of mine from 2 years ago stating when buying off plan "anything over 1000/ft2 is a risk":lol:

How quickly things have turned.

TB - any property purchase in life is risky! However I know of another resale that took place last week at 1350 dhs per sq ft.

I think it’s fair to say that the comments posted by High Times sums up the feelings of many investors in The Torch. As a general point, I would say that questions that appear very simple to answer usually aren’t – it would not make sense for us to withhold answers that were easy to give and allow the confusion and animosity that comes across in many of the comments posted here to develop.

The point that only answers to key questions will satisfy the need to restore confidence in the eyes of our customers is not wasted on me, but clearly this will not happen overnight and we have to start somewhere. It is definitely not the case that we are only concerned with making sales and do not have the desire to answer your questions and restore trust where it has been eroded. I do not intend to join into this forum only to publish a corporate line and then disappear again.

The question I would like to be able to answer most is how the late completion penalty clauses in the contract will be applied after the 31st December. As you know, we (Select Property) are not an equity partner in this development which is fully owned and controlled by Select Group in Dubai. I cannot answer this question until I have the information from them, but my expectation is that any penalties you are entitled to would be deducted from payments due around completion and not paid back on a quarterly basis. I understand the disappointment that is felt by purchasers on the lengthy payment plan in particular who had gambled on receiving rental income by now in order to meet their repayments. It is worth pointing out that the LPP was unique at the time and created a way for many purchasers to fund property without having to prove repayment ability and at a premium that would is lower than interest rates on mortgages, had mortgages even been available. I genuinely do not think that any purchasers in the Torch will regret making an early decision to invest in this development when the return on their investment begins to be realised.
Completion has delayed for a number of reasons which possibly would not have happened had the market been as regulated in 2004/2005 as it is now, you could say that is part of the risk and reward equation with any investment like this. As you will be aware, neighbouring ‘super-talls’ in this district of the marina were launched before the Torch and are further behind still as a result of many of the similar challenges faced by Select Group no doubt.
The developer of The Torch has acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai, including others on Dubai Marina itself. In particular the recruitment of a new Executive Director of Developments earlier this year who lead the development team at Emaar Properties prior to joining Select Group will enable both more accurate communication and more demonstrable progress towards completion. We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable, although clearly actions will speak louder than my words over the coming months.

Regarding pre-registration of ownership on the Land Department's new system, The developer now has access to the new OQOOD system and pre-registration is now in progress in accordance with their instructions for all purchasers who have paid their share of the registration fees. It seems the DLD too has to revise it timescales from time to time and the expectation that pre-registration would be complete within 60 days of publication of the by-law was not realistic. As soon as registration is complete either the Land Department or the developer will issue documentation to that effect.

I think it’s fair to say that the comments posted by High Times sums up the feelings of many investors in The Torch. As a general point, I would say that questions that appear very simple to answer usually aren’t – it would not make sense for us to withhold answers that were easy to give and allow the confusion and animosity that comes across in many of the comments posted here to develop.

The point that only answers to key questions will satisfy the need to restore confidence in the eyes of our customers is not wasted on me, but clearly this will not happen overnight and we have to start somewhere. It is definitely not the case that we are only concerned with making sales and do not have the desire to answer your questions and restore trust where it has been eroded. I do not intend to join into this forum only to publish a corporate line and then disappear again.

The question I would like to be able to answer most is how the late completion penalty clauses in the contract will be applied after the 31st December. As you know, we (Select Property) are not an equity partner in this development which is fully owned and controlled by Select Group in Dubai. I cannot answer this question until I have the information from them, but my expectation is that any penalties you are entitled to would be deducted from payments due around completion and not paid back on a quarterly basis. I understand the disappointment that is felt by purchasers on the lengthy payment plan in particular who had gambled on receiving rental income by now in order to meet their repayments. It is worth pointing out that the LPP was unique at the time and created a way for many purchasers to fund property without having to prove repayment ability and at a premium that would is lower than interest rates on mortgages, had mortgages even been available. I genuinely do not think that any purchasers in the Torch will regret making an early decision to invest in this development when the return on their investment begins to be realised.
Completion has delayed for a number of reasons which possibly would not have happened had the market been as regulated in 2004/2005 as it is now, you could say that is part of the risk and reward equation with any investment like this. As you will be aware, neighbouring ‘super-talls’ in this district of the marina were launched before the Torch and are further behind still as a result of many of the similar challenges faced by Select Group no doubt.
The developer of The Torch has acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai, including others on Dubai Marina itself. In particular the recruitment of a new Executive Director of Developments earlier this year who lead the development team at Emaar Properties prior to joining Select Group will enable both more accurate communication and more demonstrable progress towards completion. We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable, although clearly actions will speak louder than my words over the coming months.

Regarding pre-registration of ownership on the Land Department's new system, The developer now has access to the new OQOOD system and pre-registration is now in progress in accordance with their instructions for all purchasers who have paid their share of the registration fees. It seems the DLD too has to revise it timescales from time to time and the expectation that pre-registration would be complete within 60 days of publication of the by-law was not realistic. As soon as registration is complete either the Land Department or the developer will issue documentation to that effect.

Giles (if you are actually Giles?),

We have met face to face back in Dec 2005, when my wife and I signed up for an apartment in The Torch.

I think I am a fair judge of character and believed I was dealing with both reputable professional people from a professional area of Cheshire and a reputable company, though I did have some doubts regarding your company' financial track record.

I still think this is the case and do feel that your hands are tied, as a sales agent.

That said, I wrote to you directly earlier this month, asking if you could contact Select Group in Dubai, to get answers on some specific questions with regards to the timescale statements (the good old September 2009 :ohno:), issues around the land registry, issues around visibility of our monies in ESCROW and the big one, confirmation of compensation rates and timescales.

For the record to other subscribers, you didn't even have the courtesy to respond to these major concerns yourself, instead opting to pass down to one of your Account Managers, who in turn wrote back to me with yet more corporate dribble that simply did not answer the specifics of my letter, and in fact, raised even more concerns that I wouldn't publicise on this forum.

I doubt a call actually went between Handforth and Dubai relating to that letter.

I will let the other members of this forum decide whether it is worth further discussions with this Select_Property user or not and whether you demonstrate the customer service commitment you aspire to in reality?

Regards

The Torch

The developer of The Torch has acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai

We do feel that the revised schedule [Sep 09] is achievable.

:lol::hilarious:lol:

Can someone remind me why buyers at Bay Central are getting a payment holiday, whereas buyers of the Torch which will be handed over almost 3 years late are not?

The developer of The Torch has acquired one of the strongest and most experienced teams with individuals in all the key roles who between them have financed, project managed, delivered and managed some of the best known developments in Dubai, including others on Dubai Marina itself. In particular the recruitment of a new Executive Director of Developments earlier this year who lead the development team at Emaar Properties prior to joining Select Group will enable both more accurate communication and more demonstrable progress towards completion. We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable, although clearly actions will speak louder than my words over the coming months

:lol::lol::lol::lol: Here goes your credibility (You don't hold any with me):bash:

Do you feel brave enough to put £1,000 that it will be no where near???? I can and will prove you wrong on everything you have said above.

Sorry Altin, I thought the Christmas Card was quite innocent.

Happy Christmas everyone.

Have a great and safe one. :cheers:

See you in the New Year.

@The Torch, Sorry Mate, I did not get back until three days ago. We will get that drink in the New Year, I promise.

Giles, I find your comment about the Sept 09 completion date being achievable, nothing short of incredible and somewhat patronising. Do you seriously believe that? Is this a professional judgment or you just being optimistic?

Can you provide us with a project plan, or even basic timeline, so we can at least try to understand your rationale and never-ending optimism?

Posted by our new friend on the Pacific site, relevant to us??

Nevertheless the fact remains that our anticipated completion date for this development – which ultimately is the only thing that matters in terms of delivery in your purchase contract, remains the same which brings me on to the second question; the developer of Bay Central has acknowledged that the project is behind schedule for delivery according to the sales contract therefore they have begun to offer some flexibility on payment schedules for purchasers. This is not the case for Pacific therefore we do expect purchasers to commit to the payment schedules that have been agreed in order to cashflow the project. More information and added reassurance is something we will continue to provide over time in order to make sure that purchasers feel comfortable making those payments.

Giles, if you are so adament that occupation will be in Sept 09 then please can you write a letter to reassure all those concerned stating that payment of compensation owed from Dec 31st 08 will at least be paid by that specific date.

It would not make sense for us to withhold answers that were easy to give and allow the confusion and animosity that comes across in many of the comments posted here to develop.

I wish I could agree with you. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense to withhold answers, if you think you can get away with it, when the truth is likely to result in undesirable consequences.

I understand the disappointment that is felt by purchasers on the lengthy payment plan in particular who had gambled on receiving rental income by now in order to meet their repayments.

Gambled? FFS! Sorry, but if you want to incur the wrath of your customers on this forum, this is the kind of language that is likely to result in that outcome. I signed a contract, back in 2005, stating that my apartment should be ready by the end of June 2008, and at the very latest would be ready by 31 December 2008. The latter date is a contractual obligation on the part of the developer, not a 'gamble' on the part of the customer.

As you know, if matters aren't resolved to my satisfaction in the next eight days, i.e. by 1 January 2009, I'll be taking advice about whether to withhold the LPP instalments. Would you like me to post that advice on this forum? If the advice says I can safely cease making the payments, would you say that the developer was 'gambling' when it let me reserve an apartment on the strength of my contractual obligation to make the quarterly instalments?

Completion has delayed for a number of reasons which possibly would not have happened had the market been as regulated in 2004/2005 as it is now, you could say that is part of the risk and reward equation with any investment like this. As you will be aware, neighbouring ‘super-talls’ in this district of the marina were launched before the Torch and are further behind still as a result of many of the similar challenges faced by Select Group no doubt.

I would appreciate it if you would tell us why completion has been delayed. It's important we have this information because we need to establish whether the developer has 'used its reasonable endeavours' to deliver the project on time. If it hasn't, then it's in breach of the sale and purchase agreement (clause 9.3) and contractual damages will apply - which, I've been advised, gives us the right to recover from it the rental income we'll be losing from 1 January 2009.

You mention neighbouring super-talls. Marina Heights has been finished for some time now...

We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable, although clearly actions will speak louder than my words over the coming months.

I've been asking you, and before you, Russell Hayes, to provide me with a new construction schedule showing how the claimed completion date of September 2009 will be achieved, so far without success. If you're serious about open communication with your customers, how about circulating one to all of us and posting it on this forum, so we can monitor progress against the milestones contained within it? It should also clarify when handover will occur, as opposed to completion.

If the truth is that the building is two years from completion, much better to admit it now, provide a realistic schedule and deal with those of us who have a problem with this based on our individual circumstances and wishes. Speaking personally, as long as I continue to be given a fantasy completion date with no supporting evidence and am expected to fund the LPP for two years with no income against it, my circumstances are such that I have to litigate to recover the rental income I'm offered. Without prejudice, if I was offered a waiver of the LPP instalments from 31/12/08 to completion, coupled with an achievable construction schedule and delivery date, I might be able to stay in. [/QUOTE]

Regarding pre-registration of ownership on the Land Department's new system, the developer now has access to the new OQOOD system and pre-registration is now in progress in accordance with their instructions for all purchasers who have paid their share of the registration fees. It seems the DLD too has to revise it timescales from time to time and the expectation that pre-registration would be complete within 60 days of publication of the by-law was not realistic. As soon as registration is complete either the Land Department or the developer will issue documentation to that effect.

I'm not paying this until it has been set up fully in accordance with RERA rules and the developer has reached an agreement with me that enables me to continue with the purchase. Until then, I'm exercising my right of set-off of the land department fees payable to the developer against the developer's debt to me, namely a year's advanced rental on three two-bedroom apartments on high floors of a supertall building in Dubai Marina that the developer is contractually obliged to hand over to me in the next eight days, but which is in truth barely half built...

.................................... We do feel that the revised schedule is achievable, although clearly actions will speak louder than my words over the coming months............



Looks like challenge accepted. (Refer BC post #2653)

I knew years ago that 2011 was the earliest achievable outcome, why do you continue to deny?

May be you have wasted your money on the Emaar rejects.:dunno:

I'm almost tempted to have a bet with our Giles. Here's how I'd see it working...

I've reserved three two-bed apartments in The Torch: two 06s, one 08. The lowest floor is 5206 (which I believe is the 58th floor, after the reconfiguration of floors). So they're nice units - or will be, if/when they're finished.

How about if I said that if all three units are completed and handed over to me, in lettable state, by close of play on 31 September 2009, I'll give one of them to Giles, whichever he'd prefer: free, gratis?

However, for every three months beyond that date that it takes for handover, I'd like him to waive the purchase price of one of the units. That means refunding to me my deposit and LPP instalments, and waiving the outstanding balance.

Therefore by the end of June 2010 I'd be the proud owner of three free apartments - which, by my estimation, would be delivered a further 6-12 months later.

Seriously, if this new-found open dialogue with customers is going to get us anywhere, Select Property has to begin by announcing a believable completion date, then talking to us individually about how it proposes to make amends for delivering by my guess two or more years late... Unless, of course, they have faith in the September 2009 date, in which case Giles will take me up on my generous bet :ohno:.

I'm almost tempted to have a bet with our Giles. Here's how I'd see it working...

I've reserved three two-bed apartments in The Torch: two 06s, one 08. The lowest floor is 5206 (which I believe is the 58th floor, after the reconfiguration of floors). So they're nice units - or will be, if/when they're finished.

How about if I said that if all three units are completed and handed over to me, in lettable state, by close of play on 31 September 2009, I'll give one of them to Giles, whichever he'd prefer: free, gratis?

However, for every three months beyond that date that it takes for handover, I'd like him to waive the purchase price of one of the units. That means refunding to me my deposit and LPP instalments, and waiving the outstanding balance.

Therefore by the end of June 2010 I'd be the proud owner of three free apartments - which, by my estimation, would be delivered a further 6-12 months later.

Seriously, if this new-found open dialogue with customers is going to get us anywhere, Select Property has to begin by announcing a believable completion date, then talking to us individually about how it proposes to make amends for delivering by my guess two or more years late... Unless, of course, they have faith in the September 2009 date, in which case Giles will take me up on my generous bet :ohno:.

It's good for SP to have dialogue here but don't just bullshit Giles - anybody can tell TT is not going to be ready and your company would fare much better if you were realistic with schedules Sept 09 is no way achievable
I haven't budgeted for 2009 (but mid/end 2010 would be nice) anyway, having come in late, but please be truthful wih those who are budgeted for 2008 finish and do it now
- we are in business in UK growing mushrooms and we say we "keep them in the dark and feed them s##t" -- to grow
I think investors in TT must feel like our Mushrooms

Happy CHRISTMAS everybody anyway

Does any one know the approx ''asking''' price for a 3 bed on high floor at the moment?
Not the sqft as to confusing for me>> I think I paid around 1.8m when they were first released.. so long ago I could be wrong!!

Does any one know the approx ''asking''' price for a 3 bed on high floor at the moment?
Not the sqft as to confusing for me>> I think I paid around 1.8m when they were first released.. so long ago I could be wrong!!

Finished and not rented properties:
Dubai Marina: studio: 1600 AED/sqft, 1BR: 1150 AED/sqft, 2BR: 880 AED/sqft
JBR: 1350 AED/sqft - 1800 AED/sqft depending on the view

U/C: - 20 to 40 %
not yet started: no market anymore

Finished and not rented properties:
Dubai Marina: studio: 1600 AED/sqft, 1BR: 1150 AED/sqft, 2BR: 880 AED/sqft
JBR: 1350 AED/sqft - 1800 AED/sqft depending on the view

U/C: - 20 to 40 %
not yet started: no market anymore

Wow, looks like somebody's got cash and wants to buy eh?
and is quoting the price he'd like to buy at

27/December/2008

The Torch

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6461/imresolt15nx5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1439/imresolt16pa5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/281/imresolt18mh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8303/imresolt17jw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3741/imresolt21xb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1514/imresolt23hq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6290/imresolt34bi5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6507/imresolt43xu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I saw a number of Torch three beds for sale on the SP resale area of their site. As I have a 3 bed I was wondering what they were trying to sell for just for interest.

Thanks Imre, i'm happy to see we are still going strong in the right direction. maybe they should use the extra workers that have been stood down from other suspended projects and aim to finish what they have started..

Finished and not rented properties:
Dubai Marina: studio: 1600 AED/sqft, 1BR: 1150 AED/sqft, 2BR: 880 AED/sqft
JBR: 1350 AED/sqft - 1800 AED/sqft depending on the view

U/C: - 20 to 40 %
not yet started: no market anymore

So let me get this right. Completed property in Dubai Marina.

An 800 sqf studio will cost me AED 1.28m
A 1200 sqf 2 bed will cost me AED 1.05m

Arno,

When presented with these two deals as an option, if you can find me one human being (that isn't on a life support machine, or confined to a straight jacket), to buy the studio, please pass them my number +66 666 666 666.

I have an oil field that i want to sell in Nigeria.

that is rubbish, where can you buy 2 bed for 880 dhs/sqft ?? (maybe The Waterfront, bridge view?)

Cheapest 2 bed is Marina Diamonds around 1.5-1.8 m now , Cascade Tower and The Zen around 1.5-1.6 million AED .

Cheapest 1 bed, Marina Pearl, Marina Park, Marina Diamonds, but low floor and nothing view, around 1.1-1.2 m.

So let me get this right. Completed property in Dubai Marina.

An 800 sqf studio will cost me AED 1.28m
A 1200 sqf 2 bed will cost me AED 1.05m

Arno,

When presented with these two deals as an option, if you can find me one human being (that isn't on a life support machine, or confined to a straight jacket), to buy the studio, please pass them my number +66 666 666 666.

I have an oil field that i want to sell in Nigeria.

I got these numbers from a real estate agent friend of mine. But, if you ask, just numbers, because I suspect she's selling almost nothing.

So let me get this right. Completed property in Dubai Marina.

An 800 sqf studio will cost me AED 1.28m
A 1200 sqf 2 bed will cost me AED 1.05m

Arno,

When presented with these two deals as an option, if you can find me one human being (that isn't on a life support machine, or confined to a straight jacket), to buy the studio, please pass them my number +66 666 666 666.

I have an oil field that i want to sell in Nigeria.

I have a 900 sqm 1 bed in Time Place that was valued at around AED 1.4 m, although I realize no one is buying.. and I'm not selling - so we are all happy. I was hopping my 3 bed (if completed) would be priced around AED 3 m + ??

Oh and I work in Nigeria so have some experience here!!

I have a 900 sqm 1 bed in Time Place that was valued at around AED 1.4 m, although I realize no one is buying.. and I'm not selling - so we are all happy. I was hopping my 3 bed (if completed) would be priced around AED 3 m + ??

Oh and I work in Nigeria so have some experience here!!

Ben by the time the Torch is complete (late 2010/early 2011) the world and Dubai will be in a much healthier position I'm sure.

I fully expect completed property in the Marina to be around AED 2k psf.

So your Torch 3 bed should be valued at around AED 3.4m.

The point of my post was really to make light of what Arno was saying about prices being quoted by his real estate friend. The RE market in Dubai at the moment is full of panic, fear and bullshit. Those of us who make it through this storm will find pleasant waters are waiting to be enjoyed.

The only sellers in this market are people who have either overpaid, overstretched, or over leveraged. Thats why we are witnessing silly pricing with no logic.

My advice to anyone who can afford what they are buying is just sit back and relax for a year or so.

Downturns are where millionaires are born. :)

So let me get this right. Completed property in Dubai Marina.

An 800 sqf studio will cost me AED 1.28m
A 1200 sqf 2 bed will cost me AED 1.05m

Arno,

When presented with these two deals as an option, if you can find me one human being (that isn't on a life support machine, or confined to a straight jacket), to buy the studio, please pass them my number +66 666 666 666.

I have an oil field that i want to sell in Nigeria.

HT -- I am getting a bit p****d off with people quoting stupid prices it doesn't help confidence and Arno if you can get at those prices just BUY !!!

Dont tell anyone alse about it or they will beat you to them

Like HT I am in for the long run just hope they bring back property VISA's soon

Thanks for the pictures IMRE -- Torch is rising well now keep up the CURRENT good work SP

HT -- I am getting a bit p****d off with people quoting stupid prices it doesn't help confidence and Arno if you can get at those prices just BUY !!!

Tks. I'm in the process of buying somewhere else (villa). BTW, I'm also owner.

Imre, as usual a real gentleman,thankyou for the pics.

I agree with Hightimes ride the waves for the year and your laungining.

Arno salzal, which planet are you currently inhabiting, may be I'll join you at those prices..

Thanks:)


27/December/2008

Dubai Marina, tallest block

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4661/imresolt44jf7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3900/imresolt46ln2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I got these numbers from a real estate agent friend of mine. But, if you ask, just numbers, because I suspect she's selling almost nothing.

Among the many problems contributing to the current woes of Dubai's property market is the relative inexperience of its estate agents. Most are used to asking buyers to form an orderly queue and pay full asking price, so they don't know how to handle a downturn. One of their more unfortunate techniques, aimed at getting the phones to ring at quiet time, is advertising properties that don't exist at amazing prices. The plan is that punters ring up and they switch sell them to off-plan or u/c at prices almost that low, or completed units at higher prices.

There is absolutely, positively, no way that anyone is selling a completed studio in the Marina at AED 880/sq ft. The rental yield would be so spectacular that, even in the current climate, it'd be taken up immediately.

Trouble is, agents who spread these stories about fantasy distress prices undermine those who are selling well-priced but genuine units and create a sense of panic about the market.

Given that agents now have to be registered, can't RERA start acting against those who advertise units that don't exist?

So when do you think we will hit the big floor 50?? sweep steak any one.. in the next week or so? what are we at now high 40s?

So when do you think we will hit the big floor 50?? sweep steak any one.. in the next week or so? what are we at now high 40s?

From Imre's most recent photo, it looks like they're working on the 44th floor.

I thought when they were doing the double floor it was labeld as floor 34? counting up from that it would mean we are closer to 48?

Imre, Do they still have the numbers going up the side?

Any way, if they are on floor 44 then I'm going for floor 50 by 1st week of Feb? any takers?

look back to post 7553 and you'll be able to count the floors from that.

Thanks, I stand corrected, although they may have added a floor in the time it took me to find the post 7553 and do the counting.. lol

New RERA law on payments of off plan property..


http://www.ameinfo.com/179982.html

Same story but more detail in yesterday's "Emirates Business"

Rera sets payment rule

Starting from January 1, 2009, developers and banks have been ordered to stop taking payments more than 20 per cent of the cost of properties from buyers or investors until construction begins, a Real Estate Regulatory Agency (Rera) official has revealed.

"We have sent out letters to 100 developers – as well as having meetings with them and lending banks and institutions – telling them to take payments from buyers worth only up to 20 per cent of the contract value," Essa Saeed Ahmed Al Mansoori, Head of the Trust Accounts Section at Rera's Real Estate Development Trust Account Department, told Emirates Business.

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

Rera has set up an 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department that will supervise and monitor the construction process and ensure the escrow amounts are collected in accordance with the agreed schedule.

"We have all the figures in our database and are asking developers to stop collecting money from buyers," said Al Mansoori.

Rera Chief Executive Marwan bin Ghalita said developers could protect their rights by referring disputes to the Property Court where contractual agreements would be enforced. "The message we want to send out to the developers and lending banks is to consider the situation of the investor before they take action," he said. "In this time of crisis, everyone should work together and everybody's rights will be protected."

Meanwhile, Rera has announced that a revision of Law No 8 is being considered by Dubai Land Department.

"For new sales and purchase agreements the booking amount has been set at a fixed amount rather than the previous rate of five to 10 per cent of the contract value," said Al Mansoori . "In January, Rera will set up a technical audit team. The new system will enable stricter auditing of the escrow account, the developer and the trustee."

He added that Rera was introducing regulatory procedures covering Law No 13, which established the Interim Real Estate Register.

A land department spokesman said 100,000 units had already been registered.

^^ have mixed feelings about this one.

We need more tranparency with regards to the link between escrow accounts and construction progress.

Will this put a lot of buildings on hold because the developers have run out of money?

Tks. I'm in the process of buying somewhere else (villa). BTW, I'm also owner.


I see now why it is so cheap, you are both the buyer and owner, so your doing self a deal?? Great Idea, the simple ones are always the best. See if you can get "you" to throw in your belongings to your self as well??

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."
-------
I am now really interested in the word ''correlate'' ??

I have also just started to wonder a little bit harder just why 3 month payment holidays have suddenly started to be offered?? ''fancy footwork" you think?

"With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."
-------
I am now really interested in the word ''correlate'' ??

I have also just started to wonder a little bit harder just why 3 month payment holidays have suddenly started to be offered?? ''fancy footwork" you think?

This is interesting. According to the sale and purchase agreement, construction on The Torch should finish within the next six hours. Which raises the question of whether the developer can enforce any further payments until they hand them over...

The torch is approx. 50% complete. If you are on the 15 year plan then you have not yet paid 50% of the total contract purchase price (now registered with the land registry) but you have paid more than 50% of the purchase price (minus interest).

Happy New Year from Mr Sad man..

The torch is approx. 50% complete. If you are on the 15 year plan then you have not yet paid 50% of the total contract purchase price (now registered with the land registry) but you have paid more than 50% of the purchase price (minus interest).

On that basis, it could be argued either way. However, taking for instance the contract for my apartment number 5306, it states that by 31 December 2008 (the last contractual day for completion) I should have paid the following:

Reservation deposit - AED 6,600
1st instalment - AED 128,304
2nd instalment - AED 250,008
plus 11 quarterly instalments, each of AED 24,214.45

Which I make a total of AED 651,270.95.

Given that the building is, as you say, now about half built, whereas the contract envisaged it being fully constructed six months ago and gave the developer leeway up to yesterday, I wonder how enforceable the quarterly instalments will be from now to handover?

It will be interesting to see whether we hear further from Giles in the next couple of weeks and, if so, what the developer proposes to do about the delays. Being a pragmatist, I'd probably settle for a waiver of the instalments until handover, provided it took place before the end of 2010, if this was offered in good faith by the developer without the need for legal wrangles. If I had to go to law I'd hold out for the lost rental income.

If those investors on the LPP were to get a payment holiday (at the discretion of SP) then what option would be available for those not on the LPP? The interest on the 90% capital paid would effectively be funding the holiday for those on the LPP. Does that sound fair?

Also, if compensation is to be deducted from the final instalment, would we be eligible for interest on the interest, assuming completion in 2010/2011?

if compensation is to be deducted from the final instalment, would we be eligible for interest on the interest, assuming completion in 2010/2011?

Yes you would be.

I am a new member to Skyscrapercity and although I have not left a post until today I have been reading on a regular basis for over 2 years on this forum as I own an apartment in the Torch. Although I look forward to the Torch being completed to everyones satisfaction with no contractual complications being an armchair lawyer (which can be dangerous) I have a couple of points which I would welcome other peoples comments on.

a) Does anybody actually know the reasons to date given for the delay in
the completion date?

b) If the reasons for the delay are given as Force Majeure, what are the
implications of clause 15.3 in the contract?

HAPPY NEW YEAR :cheers:

If those investors on the LPP were to get a payment holiday (at the discretion of SP) then what option would be available for those not on the LPP? The interest on the 90% capital paid would effectively be funding the holiday for those on the LPP. Does that sound fair?

Also, if compensation is to be deducted from the final instalment, would we be eligible for interest on the interest, assuming completion in 2010/2011?

Depending on what the legal advice says, it may well be that all Torch customers are entitled to damages from 1 January 2009, which would be set at the amount they'd be losing as a result of the developer being in breach of clause 9.3 of the sale and purchase agreement (the one that obliges them to use their reasonable endeavours to finish it on time).

Given that the building is, at best, half finished, and independent experts reckon it'll be handed over in summer 2011 - three years after the original anticipated completion date - and that there's plentiful evidence from this very forum of times in the early stages of build when nothing happened for weeks on end, a change of master contractor, a large-scale redesign of the building and this summer's delays - it shouldn't be difficult to prove our case.

However, it could be that we'd have to go to court or via RERA to get the developer to accept that this is the case, and the cost of the compensation could easily take them down. Which is why I think there could be some merit in negotiating. For LPP customers I'm suggesting we ask for a waiver of the instalments until handover; for those on the standard payment plan, I would have thought that interest on your capital, paid now rather than deducted from the final instalment, would at least give an income now, albeit at a lower rate than you'd get from renting out your unit/s.

What do others feel - is this a fair compromise to be asking for?

I am a new member to Skyscrapercity and although I have not left a post until today I have been reading on a regular basis for over 2 years on this forum as I own an apartment in the Torch. Although I look forward to the Torch being completed to everyones satisfaction with no contractual complications being an armchair lawyer (which can be dangerous) I have a couple of points which I would welcome other peoples comments on.

a) Does anybody actually know the reasons to date given for the delay in
the completion date?

b) If the reasons for the delay are given as Force Majeure, what are the
implications of clause 15.3 in the contract?

HAPPY NEW YEAR :cheers:

As far as I know the developer or its agent Select Property has never provided an answer to question a). They have specifically stated that force majeure doesn't apply.

In my previous post I have listed some of the factors that I believe have contributed to the delayed handover. Other members may have others to add.

On that basis, it could be argued either way. However, taking for instance the contract for my apartment number 5306, it states that by 31 December 2008 (the last contractual day for completion) I should have paid the following:

Reservation deposit - AED 6,600
1st instalment - AED 128,304
2nd instalment - AED 250,008
plus 11 quarterly instalments, each of AED 24,214.45

Which I make a total of AED 651,270.95.

Given that the building is, as you say, now about half built, whereas the contract envisaged it being fully constructed six months ago and gave the developer leeway up to yesterday, I wonder how enforceable the quarterly instalments will be from now to handover?

It will be interesting to see whether we hear further from Giles in the next couple of weeks and, if so, what the developer proposes to do about the delays. Being a pragmatist, I'd probably settle for a waiver of the instalments until handover, provided it took place before the end of 2010, if this was offered in good faith by the developer without the need for legal wrangles. If I had to go to law I'd hold out for the lost rental income.


I am in the same boat as you, i would take a payment holiday, instead of Compo, also there are other things they could do, we do have equity in the them, sell one back to them to pay for the other, also fractional ownership, they are good at that, could use that as equity as security against the payment holiday, or just make the loan 20 years to ease the pain, or take a 2 year holiday, and tag it on to the end of the plan making it 17 years, i am sure there betters heads out there than mine who could work it out, after all they where the first with Escrow, and the LPP, and they haven't cried Force Manure like a lot of the others.

ALan

I wonder if any of this has any relevance as to why SP are sticking to the sales pitch of a Sep 09 handover when all, including them can see this is clearly not obtainable?

What do others feel - is this a fair compromise to be asking for?


Its more than fair, although for those on the SPP, its not much of a concession, seeing that this only addresses what was originally promised as recently as two months ago, although, at this stage, its better than nothing.

I'm tired of half-hearted promises being made only to be broken - better to have not promised at all, but there you have it, the SP Marketing machine in full force - continually spinning...

i am sure there betters heads out there than mine who could work it out, after all they where the first with Escrow, and the LPP, and they haven't cried Force Manure like a lot of the others.

ALan

but Alan, they have forced 'horse shit' on us, so to speak :lol:

As for Force Majeure, I expect they haven’t claimed it as there simply aren’t any grounds for it and also through the diligence of this thread, where any lack of progress simply doesn’t go unnoticed without commentary.

Did anyone in Dubai notice if the glass cladding has started yet, as SP said it would in their recently published build schedule ?

Would be nice to see some panels going on

http://i29.tinypic.com/9aaexf.jpg

Thought I would dredge this up.

Happy belated New Year everyone :cheers:

Wow, it seems like an age ago that we were talking about glass cladding.

So, using that diagram from April 08, i guess by the end of Feb 09 then they could be up to about level 53/54 so 21 stories behind even that schedule...

Happy new year to all forumers, here's hoping that 2009 will give us material progress on construction.

Foxy, Did the date they sent it to you not give you a hint??

Foxy, Did the date they sent it to you not give you a hint??

Yes I did notice it.. just put it down to irony.

I am expecting a massive update in feb. Pictures of the show apartment and a revision of the schedule.

expect away, and good luck.

Developers to be ranked http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090103/BUSINESS/42864616/1005

there is a version of this in the investment thread.

Seems to me that Select Properties ought to be very worried. Their record and reputaion is not great. It would be a massive own goal not to pay out compensation quaterly.

Yes I did notice it.. just put it down to irony.

I am expecting a massive update in feb. Pictures of the show apartment and a revision of the schedule.

You get better update here than SP can give as the know nothing.

Developers to be ranked http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090103/BUSINESS/42864616/1005

there is a version of this in the investment thread.

Seems to me that Select Properties ought to be very worried. Their record and reputaion is not great. It would be a massive own goal not to pay out compensation quaterly.

I think their ranking will be above average as they own the land.

http://i44.tinypic.com/b7mniw.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/2cwk495.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/24zavxu.jpg


http://i44.tinypic.com/6ep0sp.jpg


http://i44.tinypic.com/2pq6vk8.jpg

Does anyone know the reason for what looks like a divider on the balconies for the first four floors above double floor? does that make sense>> or maybe I am just seeing things..

Does anyone know the reason for what looks like a divider on the balconies for the first four floors above double floor? does that make sense>> or maybe I am just seeing things..

That's how its supposed to be, the balcony is split down the middle to the length, but there is two openings for views, the divided end that you can see and another opening to the side, the balcony space of 8sq meter is kind of a triangle area, unlike the rectangular balconies on the units below the double height space... Hope that makes sense, check out the floorplans on the select website.

Thanx for the pics. Joannides.
Both the front of the tower (Marina view) and the Marina Heights side seem to be progressing very well.Any idea what is happening on the Princess towwer sider and the rear of the tower? If you get a chance could we have some pics. next time?

That's how its supposed to be, the balcony is split down the middle to the length, but there is two openings for views, the dividened end that you can see and another opening to the side, the balcony space of 8sq meter is kind of a triangle area, unlike the rectangular balconies on the units below the double height space... Hope that makes sense, check out the floorplans on the select website.

Thanks for making me feel better.. I just checked the site and my own apartment plan so now understand. I have a 3 bed higher up that has the full balcony.. was getting worried..

Thanks for making me feel better.. I just checked the site and my own apartment plan so now understand. I have a 3 bed higher up that has the full balcony.. was getting worried..

HA HA.. yeah we will be spoilt with the large balconies on the 3 beds, however, they are going to be high in the sky, I am still getting my head around the height here !

HA HA.. yeah we will be spoilt with the large balconies on the 3 beds, however, they are going to be high in the sky, I am still getting my head around the height here !
Yes it would be nice NOT to have balconies over 75 floors wouldn't it ? Request it from SP as compensation for late delivery !!

http://i40.tinypic.com/6pyzdj.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/a0eadl.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/209sew5.jpg

^^
fantastic pictures. many thanks!

Great Photos, many thanks to you both :cheers:

Great, just sizing up what size Jacuzzi for my balcony.. I have been pacing around my office trying to see what 16 sq m looks like..

Great pics, many thanks Joannides and 234Sale

Great, just sizing up what size Jacuzzi for my balcony.. I have been pacing around my office trying to see what 16 sq m looks like..

About 15ft by 11.5ft.. lets all order jacuzzi's together, discount in bulk and all that!! :lol:

Where are you Giles Beswick???

Where are you Giles Beswick???

Has any had confirmation from the developer Torch Select Ltd. that they have been registered yet?

Thanks for the pics both Sale 234, and Joannides. Judging by Sales pic from Emirates Harbour the Torch will be taller than the Hotel by April. On track for Q3 2009 top out i think. Good to see the glazing going on too.

Also nice to see that the Torch appears on the Abu Dhabi Real Estate and Investment Show Website. It's really quite something that the Torch was chosen above all of the other posabilities in the area.

Keeping good company with the likes of Emaar Phase 1 towers, Burj Dubai, The World and The Palm. The Torch has been chosen to appear on the website due to it's stylish design and iconic status.

http://www.realestateshow.ae/index.htm

Wot no Jewels pic :toilet: :ohno:

^^yes, agree - good company to be in.

just a shame its the old render.

Thanks for the pics both Sale 234, and Joannides. Judging by Sales pic from Emirates Harbour the Torch will be taller than the Hotel by April. On track for Q3 2009 top out i think. Good to see the glazing going on too.

Also nice to see that the Torch appears on the Abu Dhabi Real Estate and Investment Show Website. It's really quite something that the Torch was chosen above all of the other posabilities in the area.

Keeping good company with the likes of Emaar Phase 1 towers, Burj Dubai, The World and The Palm. The Torch has been chosen to appear on the website due to it's stylish design and iconic status.

http://www.realestateshow.ae/index.htm

Wot no Jewels pic :toilet: :ohno:

Unfortunatley that's a false render which fooled lots of investors. It's from the days when Khatib & Khalami were allegedly the architects. The actual 'Torch' being built is far cheaper and less impressive that the original render.

It just goes to show that even http://www.realestateshow.ae is conveying misleading information.

Someone should write to them and tell them to take it off or replace it with something more realistic.

^^
by the mood of your posts, it's hard to believe that YOU have not wrote them a complaint yet.

usually your constructive criticisms are always welcome. yeah right.

I have just spoken to SP to find out when compensation is to be paid and they still don't have any information yet on this. Unfortunately, I shall have to sell my apartment in the Torch as I need to have income from my capital invested and by now we should all have had the keys and be renting out the properties or living in them as the case may be.
I contacted SP and asked to talk to somebody in resales and nobody was available to talk to me and wouldn't be for the rest of the day! I have been told someone will ring me tomorrow-somehow I don't believe them and have lost all trust in SP.
If anybody is interested in buying my apartment it is lower floor Marina View. All serious offers considered.

^^ you can give the property back to SP now and get all money paid so far returned instead if you are unable to make payment due to lack of compensation. This is worth checking before accepting an offer as you may find that this will be more that you can sale for through them if on the LPP. You need to give 30 days written notice.

It is a one bedroom and I have paid 90%. I have considered giving them 30 days notice and getting my money back and of course I will make some profit due to the exchange rate now. Obviously, I want to make as much profit as I can on my original investment. Being unable to talk to SP I am not sure how their resales work. Do they offer me a price to buy back the apartment or do they try and sell it for me for the best price. I have seen Torch apartments advertised on the internet via other companies. As I do not fully own the apartment yet, how can I sell through another agent?

They will just try and sell it for you, you will not get any money until they have done so. You can sell with any agent the same. It may be possible to sell on the LPP if going through SP instead so may be able to get a sale quicker. By the way better homes suggested I list my 2 bed marina facing high floor for between 1.6m and 1.7m

Interesting! Thanks, Dubai_Steve for your comments. You say only 1.6m for your 2 bed, surely if you achieved that, it would be a massive profit on the original price.
Wish me luck. I will continue to post my progress with the sale on this forum.

Any tips from anyone out there on selling my apartment would be gratefully appreciated :)

Any tips from anyone out there on selling my apartment would be gratefully appreciated :)

Yes. Dont.

^^

Unless you want to keep for lifetime rental, selling now at 1.7m with exchange rate around 5.2 to the pound may be better than making another 2 years of LPP payments and selling at 2.4m in 5 years time when the exchange rate may be around 7 to the pound and taxes introduced.

Remember the current circa 20% gain on current exchange is also profit which allows for marketing the property at a little less (if bought in stering)

ON another note, has anyone had any more thoughts or gathered any more info on the new law.. "With properties that are already being built, developers who have collected more than 20 per cent of the contract value from buyers will immediately have to stop asking for further payments until they correlate the escrow amounts already collected to construction progress."

On LLP many like me have now paid 50% already against pp, and Select are only 50% done on structure and cladding, who knows what stage they are at on the interiors of these units, so the big question is can they ask for the next payment from us legally?

Yes. Dont.

Can you give me your reasons why you don't think I should sell?

jeffers, don't count on that. I think they will come up with some chart showing how it is 70% complete because of foundations etc.

Interesting! Thanks, Dubai_Steve for your comments. You say only 1.6m for your 2 bed, surely if you achieved that, it would be a massive profit on the original price.
Wish me luck. I will continue to post my progress with the sale on this forum.

Any tips from anyone out there on selling my apartment would be gratefully appreciated :)

Don't believe these prices that appear on this forum. Better Homes told us around 1.1m, and another agency advertised it for a while at a much higher price but then stopped advertising saying we would have to make a huge reduction in the asking price. Please look at my previous postings for evidence of an actual sale.

^^

From bhomes,

"We have a number of units available is this building and the 2 bedroom apartments currently start from AED 1,700,000 for a 33rd floor, 1,280 sq. ft. apartment. I will send you details of these units in a separate mail. We have also had 2 recent sales (November 2008) a 36th floor 1,270 sq ft sea view for AED 1,300,000 and a 54th floor 1,301 sq ft. partial sea view for AED 1,700,000.
The correct pricing of your unit along with effective marketing will be key in finding a buyer for you. I would recommend marketing your apartment around the AED 1,600,000 - AED 1,700,000 mark. "

Hold onto the apt if possible until later this year when it gets near completion as there should be good demand for the Torch.

How much are other completed apts in the marina currently selling for ?

^^ I agree as it will be topped out by then and looking good with all the cladding done.

But what about the exchange rate could be 4 to the pound but could be 8 to the pound, who knows :nuts:

Can you give me your reasons why you don't think I should sell?

You have said that you are on SPP as you have paid 90%. If this is the case then I presume that the final 10% is payable on completion, which will probably be in about 2 years time. So if your not selling due to funding why are you selling if the prices have fallen?

The world will be in a better financial state by then and selling prices of completed property at this end of the marina will probably be around or in excess of AED 2k psf.

The only advantage to you in selling now is to take advantage of the Sterling slide, if you are a UK investor and will repatriate the funds back home.

Sterling is artificially low against the dollar at the moment so we have AED 5.4 = £1. Last year it was artificially high so we had AED 7.5 = £1. A more long term averaged rate would be around AED 6.5 = £1 (in my view).

So in a nutshell should you sell a 1 bed 980 sqf (ish) now or on/near completion:

Sell now.

980 sqf X AED 1300 psf (distressed market price) = AED 1.27m @ 5.4 = £235k

Sell near completion.

980 sqf X AED 1900 psf (reasonable near completion market price) = 1.86m @ 6.5 = £286k

If these figures are in the right ballpark then if you sell now you would need to invest the cash somewhere and make 10% pa net for 2 years to be better of selling it.

The only place you will do that is if you put it into the stockmarket, but that will be a bumpy ride.

This is just my own personal view you must decide what’s best for you.

Good luck.

^^ I don't know if you will get 1900 psf in 2 years time. I don't think we will see full recovery by then. High end completed property in the marina is selling for around 1500 psf now.

You have said that you are on SPP as you have paid 90%. If this is the case then I presume that the final 10% is payable on completion, which will probably be in about 2 years time. So if your not selling due to funding why are you selling if the prices have fallen?

The world will be in a better financial state by then and selling prices of completed property at this end of the marina will probably be around or in excess of AED 2k psf.

The only advantage to you in selling now is to take advantage of the Sterling slide, if you are a UK investor and will repatriate the funds back home.

Sterling is artificially low against the dollar at the moment so we have AED 5.4 = £1. Last year it was artificially high so we had AED 7.5 = £1. A more long term averaged rate would be around AED 6.5 = £1 (in my view).

So in a nutshell should you sell a 1 bed 980 sqf (ish) now or on/near completion:

Sell now.

980 sqf X AED 1300 psf (distressed market price) = AED 1.27m @ 5.4 = £235k

Sell near completion.

980 sqf X AED 1900 psf (reasonable near completion market price) = 1.86m @ 6.5 = £286k

If these figures are in the right ballpark then if you sell now you would need to invest the cash somewhere and make 10% pa net for 2 years to be better of selling it.

The only place you will do that is if you put it into the stockmarket, but that will be a bumpy ride.

This is just my own personal view you must decide what’s best for you.

Good luck.


Propertymate, i would also add that if you have booked your remaining 10% of AED for Sept 09 (and bought it at a good 'Summer' rate), you can settle the contract early with no penalty), convert back to GBP at the current rate and pocket several thousand GBP through the transaction.

by the time the torch is complete, as HT implies, things 'should' be more stable - currency wise so you can then reserve the 10% when the rate is higher.

Bringing any money back into the UK will be Taxed.. then your be in the same boat / no profit

Bringing any money back into the UK will be Taxed.. then your be in the same boat / no profit

assuming you brought it back to the UK
assuming you declared it, although given its only serveral k - you could gift it.

jeffers, don't count on that. I think they will come up with some chart showing how it is 70% complete because of foundations etc.

True, if they can get away with it they sure will.... Just would have been a nice glimmer of hope. Its such a shame that people are talking of selling due to no fault of there own, but on the fault of delays etc..

I have just spoken to SP to find out when compensation is to be paid and they still don't have any information yet on this. Unfortunately, I shall have to sell my apartment in the Torch as I need to have income from my capital invested and by now we should all have had the keys and be renting out the properties or living in them as the case may be.
I contacted SP and asked to talk to somebody in resales and nobody was available to talk to me and wouldn't be for the rest of the day! I have been told someone will ring me tomorrow-somehow I don't believe them and have lost all trust in SP.
If anybody is interested in buying my apartment it is lower floor Marina View. All serious offers considered.

My advice is to work out how long you can afford to wait. The currency can go up or down so is risk. The Torch will visibly look closer to completion and eventually may make a compelling investment for some one.

^^ I don't know if you will get 1900 psf in 2 years time. I don't think we will see full recovery by then. High end completed property in the marina is selling for around 1500 psf now.

Well 6 months ago it was being achieved and we all thought nothing of it. A lot can and will happen in 2 years Steve,

Metro fully operational.
Many more buildings complete in the marina.
Global recovery underway.
Rising oil prices.
More regional liquidity.
Better mortgage products and more of them.
Rising comodity prices (construction costs).
Falling Dollar.
Growing tourism in Dubai

There will be so much stuff cancelled and put on hold this year that it will add value to anything complete or near completion as soon as a recovery begins. The current climate is the best thing that could have happend to Dubai for it's future. It's just hard to see at the moment as there is a lot of what the Americans like to call collataral damage.

For me the Marina is the best place to be in Dubai and can only get better in the next few years. You can live city life with the beach on your doorstep, metro stop 10 mins away, commute to Abu Dhabi, great Mall, Gormet tower, Cinema.

2k psf will still be cheap when compared to other global holiday destinations.

Nothing can offer what Dubai has to offer and the marketing machine will soon kick in again to stimulate interest this year.

You must have noticed the Emirates ads running in the UK now

http://www.visit4info.com/advert/Fly-to-Dubai-with-Emirates-Emirates-Airline/67468

^^
agree 100%

as for the link, ironic as the site has been blocked by Etisalat as it 'falls under the prohibited content catagories of the UAE's internet access management policy:-)

Hi guys, I have been reading all your comments and you have certainly given me plenty to think about. I will be back. :wave:

^^

From bhomes,

"We have a number of units available is this building and the 2 bedroom apartments currently start from AED 1,700,000 for a 33rd floor, 1,280 sq. ft. apartment. I will send you details of these units in a separate mail. We have also had 2 recent sales (November 2008) a 36th floor 1,270 sq ft sea view for AED 1,300,000 and a 54th floor 1,301 sq ft. partial sea view for AED 1,700,000.
The correct pricing of your unit along with effective marketing will be key in finding a buyer for you. I would recommend marketing your apartment around the AED 1,600,000 - AED 1,700,000 mark. "



Our email from bhomes in Oct....(and the situation has deteriorated dramatically since then, also bear in mind that the actual sale prices are typically well below the asking price)

Thank you for your enquiry.



Below is the latest sale in The Torch. The unit is under offer so does represent a realistic comparison for you. We would need to allow for the fact that this unit is on the 36th floor but assuming the size / views are similar then I would recommend an asking price of AED 1,200,000. Our fee is 3% and is added to the sales price making the marketing price AED 1,236,000.

assuming you brought it back to the UK
assuming you declared it, although given its only serveral k - you could gift it.

If you're a UK tax resident and domiciled in the UK then you are liable for tax on worldwide income whether it's brought back to the UK or not. Choosing to declare it is another matter...

Not repatriating income to the UK only helps non-domiciles and those not tax-resident in the UK.

If you're a UK tax resident and domiciled in the UK then you are liable for tax on worldwide income whether it's brought back to the UK or not. Choosing to declare it is another matter...

Not repatriating income to the UK only helps non-domiciles and those not tax-resident in the UK.

Our email from bhomes in Oct....(and the situation has deteriorated dramatically since then, also bear in mind that the actual sale prices are typically well below the asking price)

Thank you for your enquiry.



Below is the latest sale in The Torch. The unit is under offer so does represent a realistic comparison for you. We would need to allow for the fact that this unit is on the 36th floor but assuming the size / views are similar then I would recommend an asking price of AED 1,200,000. Our fee is 3% and is added to the sales price making the marketing price AED 1,236,000.

IF (and I repeat IF) this is true then surely it represents a tremendous opportunity for those with cash... There could be relatively quick capital appreciation as the building tops out plus all the other factors listed by HighTimes...

Our email from bhomes in Oct....(and the situation has deteriorated dramatically since then, also bear in mind that the actual sale prices are typically well below the asking price)

Thank you for your enquiry.



Below is the latest sale in The Torch. The unit is under offer so does represent a realistic comparison for you. We would need to allow for the fact that this unit is on the 36th floor but assuming the size / views are similar then I would recommend an asking price of AED 1,200,000. Our fee is 3% and is added to the sales price making the marketing price AED 1,236,000.


My quote from bhomes for 1.6m to 1.7m was from last just week. They also sold a 2 bed for 1.7m in nov 08.

There is no point is selling for 1.2m or 1.3m for a 2 bed as you can get more than that by just returning the unit for refund anyway.

^^ Its positive that there are buyers, even in these times.

My quote from bhomes for 1.6m to 1.7m was from last just week. They also sold a 2 bed for 1.7m in nov 08.

There is no point is selling for 1.2m or 1.3m for a 2 bed as you can get more than that by just returning the unit for refund anyway.

OK I hear what you are saying Dubai Steve but to be honest I don't necessarily believe anyone in this forum as there is so much rubbish posted.


(from October)

P.O. Box 29726, Dubai, UAE
Tel : +9714 344 7714 Fax : +9714 349 6026
Email : info@bhomes.com





Dubai Marina Ref. No : AP xxxxx





Country/State : United Arab Emirates, Dubai Plot area* : n/a
Location : Dubai Marina Indoor area* : 1269.6 Sqft
Sub community: Dubai Marina Outdoor area* :
Property name : The Torch Main view* : Sea
Type : Apartment Secondary view* : n/a
Model : n/a Maintenance fee : 0
Floor no : 36 Hand Over Date : 01 Sep 2009
Bedrooms : 2 Financed offered via:
Bathrooms : 2 Car Parks
Unit Status





A life where your terrace opens to views across the foremost Marina in the world. This 345 metre landmark development is as spectacular at night as it is in the day, its lustrous architectural design shimmers off this magnificent waterfront with the iconic Torch design creating an exciting addition to the Dubai skyline. A life that offers all the comforts and security of an exclusive waterfront community. A life at the Torch Dubai Marina offers all of this and more...













Net selling price: 1,314,868.00 (AED) Transfer fee*: 10,924.00 (AED)
Gross selling price: 1,338,941.00 (AED) 1% Agency fee: 13,149.00 (AED)




















Agency Fee (Buyer) 13,149.00 (AED) Transfer Fee (Buyer) 10,924.00 (AED) Transfer Fee (completed & paid prop.) 0.00 (AED) Amount due to developer 109,245.00 (AED) To seller 1,205,623.00 (AED)







Payment Plan-Default Plan
Installment No Date Amount (AED) Remarks
1 on 31 Jan 2008 109,244.60








Facilities* : Sauna,Steam room,Swimming pool,Parking,BBQ facilities,Central A/C system,Garbage disposal,Gymnasium,Intercom

Amenities* : 24 hour security,24 hour maintenance







Built in wardrobes,Central A/C
















Master Bathroom

Front Elevation


Bedroom








Agent : xxxxx Property ref no : AP xxxxx
Mobile : 44xxxx Email : xxxxx@bhomes.com







Disclaimer:
Better Homes LLC does not warrant the accuracy, adequacy or completeness of the information presented herein and expressly disclaims liability for any errors or omissions therein. The information presented herein may include data supplied to Better Homes LLC by third parties. Such data may be amended or changed at any time by third parties without notice to Better Homes LLC. Accordingly, no warranties of any kind, implied, express or statutory are given in respect of the information.

* Subject to Developer and/or Government Authorities
________________________________________

Can you give me your reasons why you don't think I should sell?

If your personal cashflow requires income from the properties from January 2009 and you can't meet your financial commitments in some other area without selling, then it's good to sell. Likewise if you think the Dubai property market will get worse and take a long time to recover (though in that situation you could simply hand it back to the developer, as others have said, provided it's before completion) or if you believe it'll stay at this level for a long time but the Dirham will weaken relative to your domestic currency.

In all other situations, I'd hold. Rental yields remain strong, especially when compared to the pitiful yields currently generated by cash, and of course not only are prices in Dubai currently depressed but, due to concerns about its property market and the lack of developer liquidity and regulation, properties in developments that are delayed and a long way from completion are trading at big discounts to completed units. I've been told by someone I trust that SP is more secure than most, not least because the business model from the outset was predicated on many customers being on the LPP so they've always had to fund much of the development other than from investors' staged payments.

Also, there's the question of what SP will do now. Clearly, they can't maintain the fiction of a September completion for much longer, there are LPP instalments due on 1 March and Giles has posted here to say he wants a dialogue with us. I hope that we can negotiate, either individually or collectively, a solution that helps those of us who were expecting ('gambling on', in his words) rental income being generated from this month onward and now find ourselves out of pocket as a result.

Speaking personally, with three two-beds on high floors my LPP payments are about £50k/yr at the current exchange rate, all of which will now be net cash outflow, whereas if the units were now delivered and let they'd be generating about £125k/yr, so I'd be getting a net income of £75k/yr. I will find that gap hard to bridge, and may have to sell a completed unit in another development or return one or more of my Torch units if I can't get the developer to do something about it. If that can't be achieved by negotiation I'm happy to put some money into the pot to get good legal representation and see if we can get our lost rental money back by proving the developer is in breach of contract.

For these reasons I think it's worth waiting, if you can, to see what can be negotiated with the developer and, if not, what a solicitor advises and is able to achieve, before selling at a discount to a currently distressed market, through no fault of your own.

^^^^

Very sound advice.



I don't necessarily believe anyone in this forum as there is so much rubbish posted.

So stop it then.

^^ I don't know if you will get 1900 psf in 2 years time. I don't think we will see full recovery by then. High end completed property in the marina is selling for around 1500 psf now.

Steve, alineah website gives indication that the current market price for the marina is around 2000AED/ SQ FT, i have no idea where they obtain these figures from , it appears to be very high in the current economic conditions.

Guys,
There is quite a lot of talk of redundancies of SP staff posted on other related sites, (Pacific), either not true, or a normal credit crunch down sizing or an indication of something more serious - 01/06/08 it will never happen to us says a Woolworth rep ?? Any Thoughts or relevance?

Select Property, was/is nothing more than a sales agent for the Select group in Dubai. All they have been doing is selling to mainly UK investors all of the projects in Dubai;

The Point
The Torch
Bay Central
Botanica
West Avenue
Aquitania

Etc, etc.

When the gold rush was in full swing they had rooms full of sales people working machine like through all the leads that were coming in through the network of marketing they had set up. Newspaper, online, exhibitions and the like.

There is no such need for so many sales staff now as no sales (in significant numbers)are taking place, so in accordance with any sencible business plan they are making cuts and trimming back the numbers to keep the staff bill down, whilst income and cash flow reduces.

What i find worrying is that the sales person i dealt with when buying was very good indeed. I have worked in sales management for Banks and she was excellent. She has now been made redundant and i have spoken to the sales department and they dont even come close in terms of skill and desire.

This is worrying to me as it is almost as if SP have turned the sales lights off. If SP UK are not selling (and thus not producing income), then they will be paying staff to provide a back up service to the existing contracts they have sold.

This is a then a business with lots of liability and a reducing income stream.

You dont need to be a proffessor of economics to understand the future of a business with these dynamics.

West Avenue?
Aquitania?

Dont think they have done very well..

I hope Select UK will still be around to support resales, furniture packs, handover, short term rentals etc.. I know you can get these services elsewhere but to have them all available from Select is[was?] reassuring and simple.


Select Property Rental
Select Property's rental management service strives to provide our customers with the best possible rental income and the right tenants. Working with strategic partners, who have been carefully selected for their knowledge and expertise of the rental markets within their region, our customers can be confident that the whole process is fully managed, including;

· selecting suitable tenants

· agreeing rental charges

· obtaining security deposits

· issuing contracts

· regular property inspections

· internal maintenance

· repairs