#UNDER C: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m

[Dubai_Steve]

Has anyone invoiced Select for compensation due yet? By invoicing you can add interest for late payment.

[Tosh]

What has happened to the show apartment?
Was there one ever?

[reillycorblimey]

Hello mistermark, I am brand new to this forum, and reading the last 2 or 3 weeks worth of corespondance, I now have twice the amount of concerns I had before reading them. I have a 2 bed on 48 floor on LPP, if it isn't completed this year I will struggle to keep up payments. I have paid the 1% law 13 payment.
I would like to say that I would be happy to contribute to the pot for legall advice if it will stop me having to sell ( i still think it will be a good investment once completed) If I can stay in it that long.

[Mistermark]

Has anyone invoiced Select for compensation due yet? By invoicing you can add interest for late payment.

Good point. I'll send them one in the next couple of days.

[jeffers]

Has anyone invoiced Select for compensation due yet? By invoicing you can add interest for late payment.

Select still advise "developer has not advised them on compensation although they are chasing them on a daily basis" We should get a letter next week ! :bash:

[Joannides]

Hello mistermark, I am brand new to this forum, and reading the last 2 or 3 weeks worth of corespondance, I now have twice the amount of concerns I had before reading them. I have a 2 bed on 48 floor on LPP, if it isn't completed this year I will struggle to keep up payments. I have paid the 1% law 13 payment.
I would like to say that I would be happy to contribute to the pot for legall advice if it will stop me having to sell ( i still think it will be a good investment once completed) If I can stay in it that long.

clearly, SP's dripfeed approach to providing us information isnt working, and time is still ticking. Maybe now is the time to determine who will contribute towards getting legal advice. aside putting us in a stronger positon, if we all contrbute something, it shouldnt be costly. Mistermark, i'm happy to contribute also.

[Mistermark]

clearly, SP's dripfeed approach to providing us information isnt working, and time is still ticking. Maybe now is the time to determine who will contribute towards getting legal advice. aside putting us in a stronger positon, if we all contrbute something, it shouldnt be costly. Mistermark, i'm happy to contribute also.

Thanks. My plan is to call Giles tomorrow, see what he says, and if there's no firm news, I'll send a file to a solicitor I know in Dubai and ask them for an initial, no-cost view on how we should play this, likely costs and outcomes of acting. Given that this is an open forum, visible to anyone including SP, if we go down this route I will ask people to PM me their email addresses if they'd like a summary of what they say and may be interested in coming in with me.

[Imre]

08/January/2009

The Torch

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9003/imresolt045rx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4289/imresolt046nw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5081/imresolt047us8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2149/imresolt072uj7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6425/imresolt073xw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8621/imresolt161zk5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ben40]

Thanks Imre, great as usual. Has any one managed to get inside to have a look around? I am out in a few weeks and that will be my main goal, I will get in and I will bring the pics back..

[True Blue]

I'm not a big fan of these spacious balconies;)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6425/imresolt073xw3.jpg

[Ben40]

I'm not a big fan of these spacious balconies;)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6425/imresolt073xw3.jpg

The only effect of the safety harness looks to be that if he falls off and hits the floor he will be tied to the window frame, and that will hit him about a second after that..!??

[Beppe786]

^^ what you talking about.. thats the upgraded safety levels that have been put in place, that caused all the delays.. :lol:

[ramzy]

Good point. I'll send them one in the next couple of days.

But wouldn't interest on late compensation payments be claimed at the point when SP or the developer fails to make the payment on the due date, ie. at the end of each quarter?

Sorry for the confusion:nuts:

[Dubai_Steve]

I think we should make a complaint to RERA if Select do not inform us about compensation payments within the next 10 days. I am sure they will be interested to learn that buyers are struggling to make payments due to very late delivery of the project, breach of contract by the developer and required compensation not being paid over the next 2 years as per the contract.

[Mistermark]

I've opened a thread on this topic in the Google group for Torch owners:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/torchowners

[Mistermark]

Further to my most recent post, I've now spoken with Giles. Key points are these:

- A letter will come out to us from the developer by the end of next week (i.e. sent by that date, could arrive beginning of the week after)

- It will give us an update on progress, explain how and when they intend completing the building, discuss compensation etc

- The reason for the delay is that RERA needs to approve it

- Giles will himself come back onto the forum and start posting in the next few days

[Dubai_Steve]

No doubt this letter will state how great the progress is, and how it is 70% complete, completion has slipped to 31st Dec 09 and compensation will be paid on completion. They will then get this response RERA approved and signed (with all the lies it contains about occupation in Dec 09) to prevent comebacks.

Remember that compensation is to be paid until occupation and possession (not until completion). Occupation very rarely happens within 12 months of completion in Dubai.

[scoobudubai]

The only effect of the safety harness looks to be that if he falls off and hits the floor he will be tied to the window frame, and that will hit him about a second after that..!??

is that brickwork ok?

[foxy]

Further to my most recent post, I've now spoken with Giles. Key points are these:

- A letter will come out to us from the developer by the end of next week (i.e. sent by that date, could arrive beginning of the week after)

- It will give us an update on progress, explain how and when they intend completing the building, discuss compensation etc

- The reason for the delay is that RERA needs to approve it

- Giles will himself come back onto the forum and start posting in the next few days

Good work Mark.

Looks like RERA have got their eye on SD. Happy to wait until Monday week. ps. did you reoffer your wager?

[shakka]

is that brickwork ok?

Err yes that looks shocking

[Tosh]

Well Done Mistermark!
As far as the brickwork goes, this is shocking.
How the hell will an 84 storey tower survive these big gaping holes in its brickwork?
I can foresee internal wall cracks appearing soon after completion.
Your thoughts and expertise guys?

[THEPOINT]

Well Done Mistermark!
As far as the brickwork goes, this is shocking.
How the hell will an 84 storey tower survive these big gaping holes in its brickwork?
I can foresee internal wall cracks appearing soon after completion.
Your thoughts and expertise guys?
More of a pointing issue I would have thought - cladding will cover this up anyway and internal walls will be plastered or pasterboarded - dont see as a problem

[Mistermark]

Good work Mark.

Looks like RERA have got their eye on SD. Happy to wait until Monday week. ps. did you reoffer your wager?

Not yet - but if the outcome of the developer letter isn't helpful I'll do it.

[scoobudubai]

Err yes that looks shocking

it looks like an irish cottage farm wall in connemara, except the wall in connemara at ground level would be better

[Tag_one]

Well Done Mistermark!
As far as the brickwork goes, this is shocking.
How the hell will an 84 storey tower survive these big gaping holes in its brickwork?
I can foresee internal wall cracks appearing soon after completion.
Your thoughts and expertise guys?

No need to worry. The brick walls are not structural, even without them the torch will survive.

[Tosh]

What I mean is that when you have a tall structure the building usually sways from side to side. Due to rubbish brick/block work when you plaster the inside because of movement you get superficial cracks in the plaster work which you have to keep using refill and paint.structurally there is no problem but decorating regularly and frequently is something some of us not may like.

I am not a builder and neither am I a structural engineer.This is when we need Moreismarina back to help us.

[scoobudubai]

What I mean is that when you have a tall structure the building usually sways from side to side. Due to rubbish brick/block work when you plaster the inside because of movement you get superficial cracks in the plaster work which you have to keep using refill and paint.structurally there is no problem but decorating regularly and frequently is something some of us not may like.

I am not a builder and neither am I a structural engineer.This is when we need Moreismarina back to help us.

is there a danger that some of those random bricks might dislodge and fall all the way down onto passers-by?

who would be responsible?

[Ben40]

is there a danger that some of those random bricks might dislodge and fall all the way down onto passers-by?

who would be responsible?

Blame it on Giles... he gets everything else!!

[scoobudubai]

Blame it on Giles... he gets everything else!!
Seriously, the bricks and the gaps between them are in all shapes and sizes, has the developer resorted to taking free bricks in wheelbarrows from the local dump ?

[scoobudubai]

Seriously, the bricks and the gaps between them are in all shapes and sizes, has the developer resorted to taking free bricks in wheelbarrows from the local dump ?

And we are cringing just thinking about the workmanship on the inside

[FWIW]

^^Wait till you see the kitchens! :lol:

And the rejected ones will be put into Bay Central!!!

[Dubai_Steve]

Seriously, the bricks and the gaps between them are in all shapes and sizes, has the developer resorted to taking free bricks in wheelbarrows from the local dump ?

Maybe it is being built to the new green standard. :lol:

[Tosh]

Giles,Ifyou are reading this,please arrange for a webcam to be stuck in one of those large holes. We will allget some live action from the Marina!!

[scoobudubai]

Giles,Ifyou are reading this,please arrange for a webcam to be stuck in one of those large holes. We will allget some live action from the Marina!!

Let's not forget Giles is allegedly just an estate agent in the U.K.

When are people in this forum going to wise up and use the names of people who are Torch Select Ltd. (UAE), the developer.

Can anyone in this forum state the contact details of even just one single person who has the authority to sign a company headed letter from Torch Select Ltd.

Has anyone ever received a signed letter from the developer Torch Select Ltd. I wonder how so many people can be happy thinking that all the endless rubbish from Giles can have any legal significance whatsoever in the UAE.

Granted, Giles representing Dubai Select U.K. is probably legally accountably involved for false advertising and misrepresentation by Dubai Select in the U.K. with fraud and the property misdescriptions act in mind, to the extent that these are criminal offences, correct me if I am wrong.

[scoobudubai]

^^^^

Very sound advice.





So stop it then.


High Times you are right not everyone writes rubbish. I don't recall any rubbish from MisterMark, at all.

[Select_Property]

...

[Select_Property]

I am sure the contributors to this thread will be keen to learn that Select Group, the developer of The Torch, has drafted a statement for all purchasers which is intended to address many of the questions being raised here. Notably I expect it to bring you up to date on construction progress and explain the milestones along the way to completing the building and inviting purchasers to come and inspect their individual properties. Additionally the statement will set out their plans for compensating purchasers for late completion in accordance with the sale and purchase agreement.

The reason that this communication has not been sent out up to now is that Select Group is closely co-ordinating its activities on all active developments with the relevant authorities. I am sure many of you have read in the local press about mooted changes to the guidelines under which all developers are allowed to operate. The reality is that nothing has changed in the law yet, however there’s no question that the government has strengthened the role of its institutions of accountability as a response to the downturn in investor confidence. Select Group is in regular communication with RERA about the status of both payment collection from buyers and planned construction by contractors, and they are keen to ensure that all measures are taken with the full knowledge and consent of the authorities.
We will continue to monitor the regulatory landscape through direct consultation and will certainly notify you of any changes that are formally confirmed to us.

Regarding show apartments, there are fully finished apartments within the building however it is not presently possible for purchasers to visit and view them for health and safety and insurance reasons. These apartments have been created as examples for contractors to display fixtures, fittings and equipment as they are intended to be installed throughout the building. We will endeavour to get some good quality pictures from inside the building to help purchasers start to visualise the completed properties.

As you know my views are those of Select Property, since much of the opinion expressed here is directed towards us. We are appointed by Torch Select (Select Group) to pass information on to buyers on their behalf. Our aim is to provide a service to both the developer and to their buyers, although there are many conflicts of interests which present challenges along the way. I will return to this forum on a regular basis to update you and respond to questions that are posed here with the views of Select Property.

[THEPOINT]

^^Wait till you see the kitchens! :lol:

And the rejected ones will be put into Bay Central!!!
Please don't start on the bloody kitchens here i'll lose the will to live !!:lol:

[Ben40]

As you know my views are those of Select Property, since much of the opinion expressed here is directed towards us. We are appointed by Torch Select (Select Group) to pass information on to buyers on their behalf. Our aim is to provide a service to both the developer and to their buyers, although there are many conflicts of interests which present challenges along the way. I will return to this forum on a regular basis to update you and respond to questions that are posed here with the views of Select Property.
----------------------------
Do I detect a distinct move to distance themselves (himself) from the problems... "it wasn't me mate"

[scoobudubai]

I am sure the contributors to this thread will be keen to learn that Select Group, the developer of The Torch, has drafted a statement for all purchasers which is intended to address many of the questions being raised here. Notably I expect it to bring you up to date on construction progress and explain the milestones along the way to completing the building and inviting purchasers to come and inspect their individual properties. Additionally the statement will set out their plans for compensating purchasers for late completion in accordance with the sale and purchase agreement.

The reason that this communication has not been sent out up to now is that Select Group is closely co-ordinating its activities on all active developments with the relevant authorities. I am sure many of you have read in the local press about mooted changes to the guidelines under which all developers are allowed to operate. The reality is that nothing has changed in the law yet, however there’s no question that the government has strengthened the role of its institutions of accountability as a response to the downturn in investor confidence. Select Group is in regular communication with RERA about the status of both payment collection from buyers and planned construction by contractors, and they are keen to ensure that all measures are taken with the full knowledge and consent of the authorities.
We will continue to monitor the regulatory landscape through direct consultation and will certainly notify you of any changes that are formally confirmed to us.

Regarding show apartments, there are fully finished apartments within the building however it is not presently possible for purchasers to visit and view them for health and safety and insurance reasons. These apartments have been created as examples for contractors to display fixtures, fittings and equipment as they are intended to be installed throughout the building. We will endeavour to get some good quality pictures from inside the building to help purchasers start to visualise the completed properties.

As you know my views are those of Select Property, since much of the opinion expressed here is directed towards us. We are appointed by Torch Select (Select Group) to pass information on to buyers on their behalf. Our aim is to provide a service to both the developer and to their buyers, although there are many conflicts of interests which present challenges along the way. I will return to this forum on a regular basis to update you and respond to questions that are posed here with the views of Select Property.

If anyone is not happy to receive this anonymous dribble (implied from a U.K. estate agent) rather than hearing directly from the UAE developer please contact the escrow agent directly to try and protect your compensation, and to try and discover the real contact details (names) for the developer Torch Select Ltd. rather than a bunch of names in a rather complex set of Select companies who are probably not legally accountable for Torch Select Ltd.:

escrow agent contact: e.g. Adnan.loutfi@dib.ae

It might also be useful to copy the land dept. info@dubailand.gov.ae

[Mistermark]

I am sure the contributors to this thread will be keen to learn that Select Group, the developer of The Torch, has drafted a statement for all purchasers which is intended to address many of the questions being raised here. Notably I expect it to bring you up to date on construction progress and explain the milestones along the way to completing the building ... Additionally the statement will set out their plans for compensating purchasers for late completion in accordance with the sale and purchase agreement.

Two things worry me here:

1. 'bring you up to date on construction progress and explain the milestones along the way to completing the building' implies the developer is still sticking to the fiction of completion in September 2009

2. 'compensating purchasers in accordance with the sale and purchase agreement' implies they hope to pay only the contractual compensation, rather than the damages that result from breach of contract (specifically, clause 9.3)

I could be wrong on one or both counts - time will tell.

[True Blue]

The law hasn't changed but we need to clear everything with RERA before acting/comments.

^^ RUBBISH!

As I said before, the close comms with Rera is to see how far you can stretch the law without being hauled in.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ I am sure it will state Sep 09 or possibly Dec 09 for completion. You will be invited to snag your apartment during construction to make the handover process faster and to officially handover your apartment before it is possible to occupy it. It will be interesting to see if compensation will be paid at completion or occupation. (I don't think there is any hope they will pay it quarterly now). If at completion of your unit in 09 then compensation payment must continue until possession and occupation according to the contract which could be as much as 1 year later.

I really think it is a huge mistake if Torch Select do not pay compensation quarterly, the exiting of investors if they do not could harm the development.

[scoobudubai]

^^ I am sure it will state Sep 09 or possibly Dec 09 for completion. You will be invited to snag your apartment during construction to make the handover process faster and to officially handover your apartment before it is possible to occupy it. It will be interesting to see if compensation will be paid at completion or occupation. (I don't think there is any hope they will pay it quarterly now). If at completion of your unit in 09 then compensation payment must continue until possession and occupation according to the contract which could be as much as 1 year later.

Would you not argue the case that future LPP payments into the escrow should be minus the compensation amount, and that the escrow agents who are there to protect our money could confirm such an arrangement?

[Dubai_Steve]

This would be ideal but the problem is a) the variable amount to deduct is not known b) by not making a payment in full you are liable to loose your property according to the contract. Although it would be interesting to get a lawyers perspective on point b since the contractual date has expired now so if they try to take back the property due to underpayment you can request that they pay back all money instead or you can correct the payment if absolutely needed. Only point a) is the issue - how much to deduct each quarter.

I think if all LPP investors agree to deduct the same estimated amount then it could work ok, in effect forcing Select to make the compensation in a timely manner.

[scoobudubai]

This would be ideal but the problem is a) the variable amount to deduct is not known b) by not making a payment in full you are liable to loose your property according to the contract. Although it would be interesting to get a lawyers perspective on point b since the contractual date has expired now so if they try to take back the property due to unerpayment you can request theat they pay back all money instead or correct the payment if absolutely needed. There only point a) is the issue - how much to deduct each quarter.

Well why should we rely on the developer to decide the compensation amount. The investor can interpret the contract and decide.

[Dubai_Steve]

Yes, the devleoper has stated in writing that compensation will be paid at the EIBOR rate + 1%. The EIBOR rate can be found here.

http://wordpress.com/tag/eibor/

So I suggest everyone deducts this % of total paid so far from there next 4 LPP payments using the 3 month EIBOR rate for each quarters calculation and informs Select Property UK of this calculation and deduction with each payment made.

Of course it would be better if Select made this calculation on the buyers behalf to prevent work on their side making corrections and so on.

Perhaps I will make an online calculator to help investors with this deduction.

[scoobudubai]

Yes, the devleoper has stated in writing that compensation will be paid at the EIBOR rate + 1%. The EIBOR rate can be found here.

http://wordpress.com/tag/eibor/

So I suggest everyone deducts this % of total paid so far from there next 4 LPP payments using the 3 month EIBOR rate for each quarters calculation and informs Select Property UK of this calculation and deduction with each payment made.


Well, the contract says LIBOR, which we can interpret. Can any provide a sample calculation for the next LPP payment?

We can inform Select Property, however I feel that we should inform the developer Torch Select Ltd. (the seller as per the contract), does anyone know the best or indeed any way to communicate directly with somebody in Torch Select Ltd, i.e. name and contact details.

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j5z11l.jpg

Select UK stated in writing it will be EIBOR.

[Rider]

This would be ideal but the problem is a) the variable amount to deduct is not known b) by not making a payment in full you are liable to loose your property according to the contract. Although it would be interesting to get a lawyers perspective on point b since the contractual date has expired now so if they try to take back the property due to underpayment you can request that they pay back all money instead or you can correct the payment if absolutely needed. Only point a) is the issue - how much to deduct each quarter.

I think if all LPP investors agree to deduct the same estimated amount then it could work ok, in effect forcing Select to make the compensation in a timely manner.

I hope LPP investors can get whatever they can but if this method is accepted by SP/TS then they would have to make quarterly payments to SPP investors to ensure parity. I do not believe they will do this so it'll be interesting to see what their forthcoming proposal is.

[Dubai_Steve]

I think SPP investors have no choice but to get compensation payment at completion or occupation. There is no way to force them to pay up early but LPP investors can deduct the amount owed to them from future payments.

For SPP investors one thing worries me, they will complete your property early before occupation of the unit is possible by bringing forward the snagging and inspection of units. So will you have to make the final payment then and not at occupation?!

[Dubai_Steve]

One thing to be aware of however, if deducting from your next payment without Selects permission - you may no longer have fullfilled your obligations under the contract and so may loose your right to get a full refund before occupation.

[scoobudubai]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j5z11l.jpg

Select UK stated in writing it will be EIBOR.

ok, nevertheless the contract says LIBOR and that is the only agreement we have with the developer / seller Torch Select Ltd.

[Rider]

I think SPP investors have no choice but to get compensation payment at completion or occupation. There is no way to force them to pay up early but LPP investors can deduct the amount owed to them from future payments.
!

I tend to disagree Steve. The payment schedules for SPP and LPP are contractually defined whereas the method and frequency of compensation payouts are not. That makes me think that the same compensation method will be applied across the board. Deducting compensation is a convenient way from an investor's perspective but I doubt that SP/TS will see it that way. I may be wrong but time will tell...

[scoobudubai]

ok, nevertheless the contract says LIBOR and that is the only agreement we have with the developer / seller Torch Select Ltd.

Our contract has been signed by 'Mark Littlewood' of Torch Select Ltd.

Does anyone know who this person is. Should we address our communications to him, if so does anyone have contact details. Is he a director. Is he a sole director. Who else works for Torch Select Ltd. Which people actually own Torch Select Ltd. either directly or indirectly?

After 3 years on this forum nobody has yet provided any useful information about Torch Select Ltd, the seller. Hard to believe, and even harder to understand the apathy of investors. I would imagine nobody has ever received any formal communication from the seller let alone one assigning authority to other companies.

[scoobudubai]

Our contract has been signed by 'Mark Littlewood' of Torch Select Ltd.

Does anyone know who this person is. Should we address our communications to him, if so does anyone have contact details. Is he a director. Is he a sole director. Who else works for Torch Select Ltd. Which people actually own Torch Select Ltd. either directly or indirectly?

After 3 years on this forum nobody has yet provided any useful information about Torch Select Ltd, the seller. Hard to believe, and even harder to understand the apathy of investors. I would imagine nobody has ever received any formal communication from the seller let alone one assigning authority to other companies.


We have just had information that Torch Select Ltd. is probably an offshore company in which case no information is available anywhere. We will write a letter to it's tiny little address (just a PO box number in Dubai, no street name etc...this might confirm that this company does not exist in the UAE at all) and ask for it's certificate of incorporation etc.

The time to act is now, investors whould work hard to establish more information about the seller Torch Select Ltd., please post any information here.

[AltinD]

We have just had information that Torch Select Ltd. is probably an offshore company in which case no information is available anywhere. We will write a letter to it's tiny little address (just a PO box number in Dubai, no street name etc...this might confirm that this company does not exist in the UAE at all) and ask for it's certificate of incorporation etc.
.

You can't open a PO Box in Dubai if you are not a registered company or a UAE resident.

As for the lack of the street name on the address ... :lol:

[jeffers]

ok, nevertheless the contract says LIBOR and that is the only agreement we have with the developer / seller Torch Select Ltd.

Some contracts say EIBOR, some say LIBOR, Just looked through mine and they all differ.

[Dubai_Steve]

LIBOR is 0.4% this week, so that is almost nothing. Thank god I have it in writing that it will be EIBOR.

[jeffers]

LIBOR is 0.4% this week, so that is almost nothing. Thank god I have it in writing that it will be EIBOR.

3 month LIBOR @ friday 2.38%. begining of jan was 2.8%.

[scoobudubai]

Developers to be ranked http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090103/BUSINESS/42864616/1005

there is a version of this in the investment thread.

Seems to me that Select Properties ought to be very worried. Their record and reputaion is not great. It would be a massive own goal not to pay out compensation quaterly.

Again, I would say there is a major misunderstanding here. The developer is "Torch Select Ltd.", nobody else.

I would say they deserve to be close to the bottom of the list. People in this forum have often voiced praise for SP, how quickly they answer the phone, how friendly they are etc. This is helps fool investors into thinking they have a dialogue close to the developer and deters them from trying to contact the deleloper directly. They do not, they have a dialogue with a U.K. estate agency whose communications are probably next to meaningless in a UAE court.

So when compared to other developers in the UAE which investors claim are very difficult to get hold of, the point is that communications from the developer mean something in a UAE court, even if they are hard to come by.

Since signing the contract we have not had a single communication direct from the developer, and in 3 years we've not had any proper address, just a simple PO box in Dubai as contact information. The contract refers to using a fax number or meeting in the developer's head office, but the developer did not supply the fax number or the head office address in the contract, and indeed in the last 3 years the developer has never supplied this information.

Here is the rubbish information publically available for the approved developer "Torch Select Ltd."
http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=10011&&lang=0

I will not go into the numerous other major problems, which would start with the picture on the front cover of the contract.

[reillycorblimey]

I own 2 bed 48th floor LPP, I have paid about 100k to date and my next payment is about 4k. If I withheld the compensation, lets say 5% does that me I withhold 1.25k thus meaning I only pay 2.75k due march?: :nuts:

[scoobudubai]

You can't open a PO Box in Dubai if you are not a registered company or a UAE resident.

As for the lack of the street name on the address ... :lol:


So who registered PO Box 112967 Dubai.

Our contract says that is the address of Torch Select Ltd.

Bay Central Devlopments also goes there:
Bay Central Developments Phase 1 Limited PO Box 112967. Dubai

It gets even more confusing, put the address into google:

http://www.alcemero.com/contactUAE.html


http://dccicommercialdirectory.com/index.php?classcode=712204 :
GROCON LUBECA SYSTEMS (L.L.C)

City - Dubai Box No. - 112967
Phone - 3551744 Fax - 3552285


Maybe the box number is for an office block, in which case your statement would be untrue, and Torch Select Ltd. could be an offshore company

[thetorch]

According to Dubailand, Torch Select Limited is the developer and is classed as (OF), which may represent Off Shore, not sure??

http://www.dubailand.gov.ae/ld_website/Application/Developers%20list.pdf

The Torch

So who registered PO Box 112967 Dubai.

Our contract says that is the address of Torch Select Ltd.

Bay Central Devlopments also goes there:
Bay Central Developments Phase 1 Limited PO Box 112967. Dubai

It gets even more confusing, put the address into google:

http://www.alcemero.com/contactUAE.html


http://dccicommercialdirectory.com/index.php?classcode=712204 :
GROCON LUBECA SYSTEMS (L.L.C)

City - Dubai Box No. - 112967
Phone - 3551744 Fax - 3552285


Maybe the box number is for an office block, in which case your statement would be untrue, and Torch Select Ltd. could be an offshore company

[Mistermark]

I own 2 bed 48th floor LPP, I have paid about 100k to date and my next payment is about 4k. If I withheld the compensation, lets say 5% does that me I withhold 1.25k thus meaning I only pay 2.75k due march?: :nuts:

I would be wary of unilaterally withholding payments - they could claim you were in breach of the SPA, rather than them, which would be ironic.

My guess is that they'll want us to pay the instalments in full for the foreseeable future, with a compensation coming off instalments following eventual completion (or possibly handover).

If we dislike this, the onus will be on us to take a complaint to RERA and/or a case through the legal system of Dubai alleging that the developer is in breach of contract and claiming damages (lost rental income and interest). If we're successful in this we may well be able to set off their debt to us against our liabilities to them (instalments) until they settle the balance.

As someone else said though, there may well be benefit to billing them for the rent now, or rather once we've established whether the compensation is worth taking, which is that the interest charges become easier to justify once this is done.

[Dubai_Steve]

I own 2 bed 48th floor LPP, I have paid about 100k to date and my next payment is about 4k. If I withheld the compensation, lets say 5% does that me I withhold 1.25k thus meaning I only pay 2.75k due march?: :nuts:

Example,

Say you have paid AED 650,000 in total so far on the LPP.

650,000 * 5% = 32,500 per annum or 8,125 per quarter.

Normal quarterly payment is say AED 25,000

So reduce this to 25,000 - 8,125 = 16,875

At an exchange rate of 5.4 this would be £3,125 instead of £4,629

You would need to recalculate this every quarter using the correct 3 month LIBOR/EIBOR rate + 1% and the new total amount paid so far.

but as Mistermark says be carefull and get legal advice, this may well break the terms of your SPA but I think legally it would stand to do this until occupation whereupon you will have paid approx. the correct amount and can make any adjustment payment neccessary to bring the payments back into line (so long as you keep Select Property informed). I would have thought this method would be in Torch Selects interests. Lets see what they have in store for us when we get the letter.

[scoobudubai]

Example,

Say you have paid AED 650,000 in total so far on the LPP.

650,000 * 5% = 32,500 per annum or 8,125 per quarter.

Normal quarterly payment is say AED 25,000

So reduce this to 25,000 - 8,125 = 16,875

At an exchange rate of 5.4 this would be £3,125 instead of £4,629

You would need to recalculate this every quarter using the correct 3 month LIBOR/EIBOR rate + 1% and the new total amount paid so far.

but as Mistermark says be carefull and get legal advice, this may well break the terms of your SPA but I think legally it would stand to do this until occupation whereupon you will have paid approx. the correct amount and can make any adjustment payment neccessary to bring the payments back into line (so long as you keep Select Property informed). I would have thought this method would be in Torch Selects interests. Lets see what they have in store for us when we get the letter.

Does the escrow agent not have responsibilities in this area?

[Ben40]

Talk about mass hysteria?? its like ''Waco''..the numbers are all to complicated for me so will await for the note from the developer that Giles has indicated will with us shortly. The tower is still going up, and at this time I see that better than many. I will keep paying and take appropriate action (via legal, sale or return?).. Maybe I am to patient (read stupid) and understanding or not in such a bad position so can wait a bit longer.. I have owned my little piece of Dubai sky since 2005 for will keep with it. -- for now..

[DXBGO]

^^ you would be very lucky to be able to sell at the moment. Nothing is selling anywhere in Dubai. Perhaps if you have a 15 year payment contract it may help you sell.

I am also in the same situation, I can only afford to pay for 18 months longer without rental income, unless I can sell some other assets. If I had the compensation owed to me I could just about afford to keep until occupation. I am considering handing my unit back or making underpayments in line with compensation owed.

hi sorry to but into your forum although have a common interest as i have units in Bay Central so i have been reading your forum with interest as to what SP are doing regarding compensation for investors in torch. It seems at present they are not saying much. SP should pay compensation in line with contract and not promise to deduct it on final payment.
people had calculated by now to have rented the units . this is worse for people on LTPP as they would have factored the rental income to pay for LTPP.
steve could you PM me as to what happens if you hand back a unit on LTPP and what SP give you back.:bash:

[Mistermark]

people had calculated by now to have rented the units . this is worse for people on LTPP as they would have factored the rental income to pay for LTPP.
steve could you PM me as to what happens if you hand back a unit on LTPP and what SP give you back.:bash:

Indeed. I have three apartments on the LPP, total outgoings about AED 290k (£50k) per year. I ought to be receiving three lots of rent on those properties - say AED 230k each, so AED 690k (£120k) in total. So I should be receiving an income of £70k net, not paying out £50k.

That's why, if the solution proposed by the developer isn't an acceptable one, I have no choice but to explore other options.

The deal on returning units is this: if the developer hasn't delivered by 31/12/08, you simply tell them you want to cancel the agreement and they have to give you back everything you've paid to date. If you look at the schedule of LPP instalments, including the initial deposit, that's how much you get back if you decide to go down this route.

[scoobudubai]

Talk about mass hysteria?? its like ''Waco''..the numbers are all to complicated for me so will await for the note from the developer that Giles has indicated will with us shortly. The tower is still going up, and at this time I see that better than many. I will keep paying and take appropriate action (via legal, sale or return?).. Maybe I am to patient (read stupid) and understanding or not in such a bad position so can wait a bit longer.. I have owned my little piece of Dubai sky since 2005 for will keep with it. -- for now..

Waco - Our skyscraper being torched by a select cult? I hope not.

You mention 'legal'. If you pusue that route with a pile of communications from a U.K. estate agent Giles as evidence, well, good luck in the Dubai court and bring loadsa cash as you will probably loose and costs will probably be awarded to Torch Select Ltd.

Also are you sure you'll be able to see the sky? who told you? !!

[DXBGO]

Indeed. I have three apartments on the LPP, total outgoings about AED 290k (£50k) per year. I ought to be receiving three lots of rent on those properties - say AED 230k each, so AED 690k (£120k) in total. So I should be receiving an income of £70k net, not paying out £50k.

That's why, if the solution proposed by the developer isn't an acceptable one, I have no choice but to explore other options.

The deal on returning units is this: if the developer hasn't delivered by 31/12/08, you simply tell them you want to cancel the agreement and they have to give you back everything you've paid to date. If you look at the schedule of LPP instalments, including the initial deposit, that's how much you get back if you decide to go down this route.

I agree. worrying part would be if SP have enough funds to pay people back. SP must realise they will not be able to resell in present market conditions in dubai. Even if bay central investors cancel now and take 70 % back thy may be better off than continuing to pay on LTPP and hope fr completion in 2012.
Torch investors as you say can get all their moneyback.as of 31/1/08.
Dont forge when torch is ready for occupation expected rents may hve tumbled.Peopl renting in dubai marina are company emplyees and bank employees. companies and banks are cutting down during this global downturn.
Best otion for SP wouldbeto work with all their investors and suapend all payments at least for 12 months . Otherwise if investors start giving their units back for 70/100 % money return depending on bay cental investors/torch investors. SP may not have the funds to pay back and carry on construction.:ohno:

[234sale]

I have deleted some investment related posts,

Maybe you need a facebook group to discuss issues.

[THEPOINT]

I have deleted some investment related posts,

Maybe you need a facebook group to discuss issues.
Missed a few aswell !!
LOL ps take the EIBOR LIBOR BORIN ones also l ??

[Imre]

13/January/2009

The Torch

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2731/imresolt09nn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[jeffers]

Thanks Imre..
Notice the progress to the aluminium cladding on the back elevation to bottom levels especially the curved areas.

[Dubai_Steve]

Will the podium also be cladded with aluminium?

[shaffar]

I agree. worrying part would be if SP have enough funds to pay people back. SP must realise they will not be able to resell in present market conditions in dubai. Even if bay central investors cancel now and take 70 % back thy may be better off than continuing to pay on LTPP and hope fr completion in 2012.
Torch investors as you say can get all their moneyback.as of 31/1/08.
Dont forge when torch is ready for occupation expected rents may hve tumbled.Peopl renting in dubai marina are company emplyees and bank employees. companies and banks are cutting down during this global downturn.
Best otion for SP wouldbeto work with all their investors and suapend all payments at least for 12 months . Otherwise if investors start giving their units back for 70/100 % money return depending on bay cental investors/torch investors. SP may not have the funds to pay back and carry on construction.:ohno:



I wouldn't worry about them selling your property at this stage of construction @ 2005 list + a smallish profit.

[scoobudubai]

I wouldn't worry about them selling your property at this stage of construction @ 2005 list + a smallish profit.

Does anyone know if the plan is still to have a lighthouse on the top?

[smshah]

Does anyone know the current floor rate we are currently achieving on the torch????????????????

[Tosh]

I think we are on floor 46 at the moment.
The plan as far as I am aware is to have a polypropylene ....plastic light material on the roof top that will emit a blue light.

Is there a viewing gallery in the Torch?

[Sheltie]

Does anyone know at which floor they will get narrower again?

[Joannides]

I think we are on floor 46 at the moment.
The plan as far as I am aware is to have a polypropylene ....plastic light material on the roof top that will emit a blue light.

Is there a viewing gallery in the Torch?

They've finished the 46th floor - now working on the next one.

[Anjam]

Does anyone know at which floor they will get narrower again?

I don't think they do until they reach the top.

[High Times]

Does anyone know at which floor they will get narrower again?

I don't think they do until they reach the top.

It depends which tower they have decided to build;

This one;
http://i42.tinypic.com/330tgzs.jpg

Or this one;
http://i42.tinypic.com/xcoya0.jpg

My guess would be that Anjam is correct and there will be no more changes until the top and they are going with the 2nd render.

If this is the case then the next mechanical floor should be after floor 55. The next big milestone due in about 8 weeks time.

Just a thought.

As the first render was used to launch sales and floor plans showing a smaller floorplate for floors 66 and above where the 3 beds are, will this mean that floors 66 and above will all be a bit bigger now due to no floorplate change ?

[jeffers]

Just a thought.

As the first render was used to launch sales and floor plans showing a smaller floorplate for floors 66 and above where the 3 beds are, will this mean that floors 66 and above will all be a bit bigger now due to no floorplate change ?

^^^^

Don't think this will be the case as they managed to squeeze in 4 X 1 bed units, one to each elevation between the 3 bed units to upper floors. Shame really.

[Beppe786]

second one as the floor plate goes in.. same like the one there building

[Ben40]

I am paying for a three bed of the 66 floor and they are still taking my money, so hope that is still in the plan??

[Anjam]

There is a facebook group called "the Torch" for any non-construction related stuff. Search for it or pm me and I will send the link.

[High Times]

Just a thought. Don't think this will be the case as they managed to squeeze in 4 X 1 bed units, one to each elevation between the 3 bed units to upper floors. Shame really.

Wern't the 1 beds in the floorplan from floor 66 - 73 from day 1 ?

The loss of floorspace due to the building reducing in diameter by approx 2 meters all the way around surely wouldnt of been enough to create 4 x 1 beds would it?

Can any early bird investors calrify if the 1 beds on floors 66-73 were planned from the start or was this as a result of not tapering the building?

Morris would know.

I miss him around here, i hear he has a job with moneycorp as a currency exchange adviser now. He was bang on the money when making Sterling predictions bless him.

Come back Morris, i miss you. :cry:

[Michael_23]

I am paying for a three bed of the 66 floor and they are still taking my money, so hope that is still in the plan?? Lucky you, I wish I had a apartment there.

Don't worry - crisis isn't as bad there :banana:

[jeffers]

Wern't the 1 beds in the floorplan from floor 66 - 73 from day 1 ?

The loss of floorspace due to the building reducing in diameter by approx 2 meters all the way around surely wouldnt of been enough to create 4 x 1 beds would it?

Can any early bird investors calrify if the 1 beds on floors 66-73 were planned from the start or was this as a result of not tapering the building?

Morris would know.

I miss him around here, i hear he has a job with moneycorp as a currency exchange adviser now. He was bang on the money when making Sterling predictions bless him.

Come back Morris, i miss you. :cry:


Original floors 55 to 71 on the sales sheet only housed 4* 3 bed units per floor, nothing else.. 72, no units as I expect this was the viewing floor, then 73 the penthouses, NO one beds, they were only filtered in due to the new design... Hope that helps.

[Rider]

Original floors 55 to 71 on the sales sheet only housed 4* 3 bed units per floor, nothing else.. 72, no units as I expect this was the viewing floor, then 73 the penthouses, NO one beds, they were only filtered in due to the new design... Hope that helps.

Correct. The design was changed as SP/TS were struggling to shift the 3 beds...

[Rider]

There is a facebook group called "the Torch" for any non-construction related stuff. Search for it or pm me and I will send the link.

Not sure this will work as people can't hide behind usernames on FB. A Torch Investors group was set up on google ages ago but I'm not sure if gets used much.

[jeffers]

Seems a bit strange the sales list saying floors 55 to 71 as 3 beds, but only 4 units per floor, no one beds on original plan. Its the level 55 that seems odd. I thought there were only 7 levels of 3 beds. Random.... but I have the list in front of me and I'm not seeing things..lol

[jeffers]

Correct. The design was changed as SP/TS were struggling to shift the 3 beds...

Aha, there we go...phew !

[Dubai_Steve]

For HT's sake, hopefully there will be more demand for 3 beds after they are completed. 3 beds sell easier to end users rather than investors.

ps. I miss Morris too :cry:

[Tosh]

I think we ought to send a search party out for Morris!!
In yesterday's Gulf News people were discussing the traffic on SZR or the lack of it now from the last 2-3 weeks.they say that expatriates are leaving Dubai in their hundreds as a lot of jobs are being lost.
This is going to have a big impact on Rental returns??

[Joannides]

I think we ought to send a search party out for Morris!!
In yesterday's Gulf News people were discussing the traffic on SZR or the lack of it now from the last 2-3 weeks.they say that expatriates are leaving Dubai in their hundreds as a lot of jobs are being lost.
This is going to have a big impact on Rental returns??


it was quiet at the turn of the year, although i would say it was more due to expatriates going home for Christmas, although this week, traffic seems to be the same as usual...

As for jobs being lost, i work in The Gate at DIFC, which should be the epicentre for job losses, but there really arent that many. even with Leeman brothers closing there, the employees were taken on by Nomura...

[High Times]

For HT's sake, hopefully there will be more demand for 3 beds after they are completed. 3 beds sell easier to end users rather than investors.

ps. I miss Morris too :cry:

Your right Steve. 3 beds are hard to shift to speculators, investors and flippers. Mainly due to the bigger initial outlay and the higher overall cost.

Personally we have bought the properties as an addition to an existing business specialising in executive holiday lets, and our current portfolio caters for family homes so we needed 3 beds.

[charlie big potatoes]

^^^^HT are short let/holiday lets allowed in The Torch? I think we have a six month min at Paloma but will check when back in the UK and unsure about the terms in The Point contract. Do you not think these towers will suffer, common parts etc with a million different people running around only there for a week or so.

[Tosh]

AME Info
Some more news.... Make your own judjements!!
What leg do we have to stand on?

Dubai's Rera unveils plans to calm property market
Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority has released a series of announcements to offer guidelines to help settle the turmoil currently underscoring the emirate's property market, including payment plans, developer gradings and a rental index.
The body has targeted developers with a series of notices concerning guidelines for the collection of investor payments.

Although no legislative decision has been made, Rera has told developers that buyers should pay no more than 20% of the cost of a property as an initial installment.

The remainder would then be paid in installments that are linked to the progress of the construction of the project and are commensurate with how far advanced the building is.

If payments over these amounts have been made and construction has yet to begin, investors could have a case for holding payments until the project is underway, although advice on specific cases should be sought.

Though these guidelines are not legally binding developers will be keen to work with Rera. 'The companies will want to work with the Rera and keep them onside,' Alexis Waller, partner at legal firm Clyde and Co, tells AME Info.

'These letters have been going out for a while, since November, but they are guidelines rather than law. The money is in escrow accounts, not with the developers, so the buyers are protected anyway.'

An 11-member Real Estate Development Trust Account Department has been set up by Rera to monitor the use of the escrow amounts, and ensure that amounts beyond the 20% are not collected until construction begins.

In parallel with this, potential investors in the city's property market will be able to check the status of Dubai's developers using a real estate ranking system currently being created by Rera.
Dubai developer grading
In answer to developers' worries as to the increasing number of investors who find themselves unable to pay installments and consider defaulting, Rera is considering proposing amendments whereby developers may be able to hold off repaying balances to buyers who are breach their contracts until the unit is resold.

The city's developers will be graded according to their liquidity, market experience, and the number of projects they have undertaken and completed. The scheme is being designed to increase investor confidence in the city's projects, and has generally been warmly received, despite some suggestions that smaller companies would be frozen out of the market.

Rera has also finalised its residential rental index, which has been sent on to the Ruler's Court for final approval. The final unveiling is expected by the end of the month, and the figures therein will not be mandatory, but rather serve as an indication of rents and tenancies for particular areas.

[Ben40]

Lucky you, I wish I had a apartment there.

Don't worry - crisis isn't as bad there :banana:


Thanks, it is facing towards the rear of the building towards to Palm, I am hopping it is high enough to have a view over the other buildings. With the road giving a distance between the Torch and other apartments?? I really hope so? I intend to live there for at least half of the year pending visa rules..

[High Times]

^^^^HT are short let/holiday lets allowed in The Torch? I think we have a six month min at Paloma but will check when back in the UK and unsure about the terms in The Point contract. Do you not think these towers will suffer, common parts etc with a million different people running around only there for a week or so.

There is nothing in my contract or management agreement forbidding the practice of short term lets.

There is in JBR and other developments, but i am sure it still goes on.

[Dubai_Steve]

Select are planning to help customers rent out and manage Torch units for holiday rents and supply furniture packs etc.

[Anjam]

Not sure this will work as people can't hide behind usernames on FB. A Torch Investors group was set up on google ages ago but I'm not sure if gets used much.

^^Depends what the intentions of the posters are. I don't think any serious Torch owner would be worried about disclosing their real name to a closed group of people with a common interest and who may become a neighbour in the next couple of years.

No doubt non-construction related talk will intensifiy once we receive the letter from the developer next week. It is not allowed here so we need a platform to share views and discuss where to go from there.

A dozen or so people have signed up today and we have already booked a "tentative" date for a house warming party on the BBQ deck :banana:

[Sheltie]

Thanks Anjam, facebook is a really good idea, I've joined already. At least you can put a face "excuse the pun" to other investors in The Torch and perhaps make friends at the same time as discussing things you can't on SSC. The more the merrier.

[Ben40]

where is the BBQ deck due to be? what else was to be there?

[AltinD]

Steve promissed once some female celebrity he knew at school or something.

[Ben40]

Steve promissed once some female celebrity he knew at school or something.

Babs Windsor.. (east enders??)

[Dubai_Steve]

Steve promissed once some female celebrity he knew at school or something.

yes the hollyoak twins.

[Dubai_Steve]

***

[Tosh]

What is the next milestone guys?

[Mistermark]

I guess the next milestone is receiving the letter from the developer which was due to go out this week, and should therefore arrive tomorrow or Monday for those of us in the UK...

[THEPOINT]

What is the next milestone guys?
Topping out end Oct 09

[THEPOINT]

Lucky you, I wish I had a apartment there.

Don't worry - crisis isn't as bad there :banana:
If you want one nows the time to buy on the resale market !!!#
Crisis will be over when this is handed over

[High Times]

What is the next milestone guys?

Next mechanical floors in around 7 floors so about 8 weeks time. Hopefully this one wont cause the delays that the last one caused.

Once thats done its stright up all the way so if they stick to 1 floor a week the the last appartment floors could be done in Oct. I wouldnt like to say topped out as i dont know how complex the light structure on the top will be.

[Mistermark]

I think the last apartment floor in October is possible, with the structure topped out by the end of the year. Add a year for fitting out and maybe six months for snagging and handover and we're on target to get our keys summer 2011.

It'll be interesting to see what completion date the developer's letter talks about - they will surely have to move from September 2009.

[Tosh]

So ,the question arises.why are the not fitting out as they go along.why wait till the whole tower is topped out.once the glazing and aluminium works are completed the apartments should be fitted and a first coat of paint work done or am I missing something ?

[arfie]

They have already started doing the fitting. A couple of apts already done.

[Anjam]

First fit out was done even before glass went on.

[Ben40]

I have 6601 which looks out towards the Palm at an angle. I think that Le Reve is the next apartment in my sight line. I read on the Le Reve thread that it was to be only 46 floors at the start, but seeing it from the base it looks taller? Is it only 46 floors?

Do you think I have a view over the top or will it be blocked by Le Reve, or another block that I have not considered? Any thoughts would be welcome.

[THEPOINT]

I have 6601 which looks out towards the Palm at an angle. I think that Le Reve is the next apartment in my sight line. I read on the Le Reve thread that it was to be only 46 floors at the start, but seeing it from the base it looks taller? Is it only 46 floors?

Do you think I have a view over the top or will it be blocked by Le Reve, or another block that I have not considered? Any thoughts would be welcome.
Ben

Think LR is about 46 floors counting on recent pictures my eyes went funny after 40 !! You'll be be fine though on
66th floor with lovely views over the Palm and you can look well over all the millionaires in Le Reve !!

One of mine in TT is top 70's floor on the corner loking over Le Reve over Palm and towards Burj El Arab, but you will for sure have good views especially if Tameer run out of money and don't build 120 floors of PT ! LOL

TP

[Ben40]

THEPOINT, in these times of doom and gloom, this is some good news, and gives me something to dream about for the next couple of years !! I want to live there for at least of half of the year so really excited about the location, the view, the walk, the mall, waitrose ext, ext... Just hope they are all still there when it is completed.

[mackie1964]

I think we should consider the swap again Ben (Torch for TP). Are you up for it?:cheers:

[Ben40]

I think we should consider the swap again Ben (Torch for TP). Are you up for it?:cheers:

What do you want to put up?

My TP apartment has been rented out since you used it and is bringing in over £20k on annual rent, I have heard of people tripling that on short term and will be looking at that once this lease is complete. It is / was valued at around AED 1.5 mil.

So current market value + rental income for period that TT is completed..
Do you want my RAK Pacific ?? aka island project not looking good at the mo.?

Property Monopoly !!

[THEPOINT]

THEPOINT, in these times of doom and gloom, this is some good news, and gives me something to dream about for the next couple of years !! I want to live there for at least of half of the year so really excited about the location, the view, the walk, the mall, waitrose ext, ext... Just hope they are all still there when it is completed.

One downside at that height - I have nightmares about balconies thats why i won't live there but will rent it out and live on the waters edge in the Marina - thats the plan anyway - thats if they haven't kicked us all out by then (sorry i,m sore about the VISA issue !!!) - I hope mine and your Pacifc proerties are built and earning rent also by the time I want to move out to Dubai

[Ben40]

My balcony plan still includes a Jacuzzi, pending size and weight limitations, (and that's just me).. and maybe a parachute or bungy

[Mistermark]

So ,the question arises.why are the not fitting out as they go along.why wait till the whole tower is topped out.once the glazing and aluminium works are completed the apartments should be fitted and a first coat of paint work done or am I missing something ?

They're doing a certain amount of fit-out along the way, but inevitably there are a lot of things that can't be done until it's topped-out.

[Tosh]

I agree Mistermark. Usually the Bath and tile works are done as you go along and the kitchen fittings are done in the end. Therefore, I personally think that handover is possible much earlier than 2011.

[Ben40]

i argee torch possidle on hold if they halt
mayde change design

??? what do you mean, in a human language please..

[Ben40]

Ben

Think LR is about 46 floors counting on recent pictures my eyes went funny after 40 !! You'll be be fine though on
66th floor with lovely views over the Palm and you can look well over all the millionaires in Le Reve !!

One of mine in TT is top 70's floor on the corner loking over Le Reve over Palm and towards Burj El Arab, but you will for sure have good views especially if Tameer run out of money and don't build 120 floors of PT ! LOL

TP

THEPOINT, if LR is 46 floors and we are at about the same level then both buildings should be around the same height, but LR still looks about 20 floors higher. Any thoughts for why this is?

[Ben40]

deaf sign
they will be halt but on hold just design
ben40
me here new

''me here new'' What to our planet?? no sorry, still ET language to me.. anybody from the land of Jacobchan that can help me out?

[bizzybonita]

^^ from what i know he's facing a financial problem with hes language and source of information .


P.S Welcome to SCC :)

[Ben40]

NEW ZEALAND SHUT UP
JACOB PRATT THIS REALLY
:bash::bash::ohno:

:stupid:

Ok thanks..

P.S., Have just seen your comments on other threads, suggest you lie down and let the men in white coats know where you are..

[Yousuf27]

GRRRR I LIVE IN WELLINGTON
17 YEAR OLD ME OK:bash::bash::bash::gunz::evil:

....in which case I think Google has misdirected you. You need the Lego forum. I'm sure you'll be happy there!

[Ben40]

Just seen that Giles has posted comments on the Pacific thread so hopefully we may be next?

[THEPOINT]

:stupid:

Ok thanks..

P.S., Have just seen your comments on other threads, suggest you lie down and let the men in white coats know where you are..LOL

[Poolview]

Hello All
New to this site & only started to read posts about the torch last week,I can only hope that some of you are wrong about handover in 2011 as did not budget for that date,bought apartment back in 2005 when it was promised june 2008 if it is 2011 bum will be leaking by then,anyway can anyone answer this question in connection with show apartment,I asked SP if they could say which apartment would be used they said it would be on 7th floor but would not confirm which one, then got another call saying it was to be all apartments on 7th floor. has anyone been asked for their permission to use their apartment
Regards PV

[Ben40]

Hello All
New to this site & only started to read posts about the torch last week,I can only hope that some of you are wrong about handover in 2011 as did not budget for that date,bought apartment back in 2005 when it was promised june 2008 if it is 2011 bum will be leaking by then,anyway can anyone answer this question in connection with show apartment,I asked SP if they could say which apartment would be used they said it would be on 7th floor but would not confirm which one, then got another call saying it was to be all apartments on 7th floor. has anyone been asked for their permission to use their apartment
Regards PV


See post 8037 from SP rep Giles?

Regarding show apartments, there are fully finished apartments within the building however it is not presently possible for purchasers to visit and view them for health and safety and insurance reasons. These apartments have been created as examples for contractors to display fixtures, fittings and equipment as they are intended to be installed throughout the building. We will endeavour to get some good quality pictures from inside the building to help purchasers start to visualise the completed properties.

[jeetha]

http://i43.tinypic.com/rk09sj.jpg

[Mistermark]

Has anyone here yet received their letter from the developer? I understand they were due to go out last week. Mine wasn't in today's post...

[Anjam]

Not had anything today

[charlie big potatoes]

Good to see this is now much higher thar Bar 44 now. Both cranes working until gone 2am when we left last night but very dark on all lower floors. Will get some pics posted by hook or crook later.

[Dubai_Steve]

One from Mr. Big Potatoes:

http://i43.tinypic.com/rh3dw7.jpg

[Joannides]

http://i44.tinypic.com/1673yxe.jpg


http://i40.tinypic.com/wn1v9.jpg


http://i42.tinypic.com/28s6agl.jpg


http://i40.tinypic.com/25sabdw.jpg

[High Times]

Wow the cladding on the back (Media city view) looks like its going on well.

Excellent pics joannides. :cheers:

Tower should top 50 floors by the end of Jan. So 25 floors to do in Feb and SP will be on track with their revised shedule.

[Anjam]

Thanks Joannides, good progress on the cladding. The Torch is beginning to take shape.

[Tosh]

Good pics Jo , well done.
Worth spending your lunch time seeing the torch rise!!
Is the second picture with the bright sunshine hitting the glazing, media city or rear/ poolside view?

[Anjam]

Media City/Pool Side is the same side. The second picture is the side facing Marina Heights which was sold as a "Partial Marina View".

[Tosh]

Thanks Anjam.My typo error.
So do we have a media city view picture?
Any prizes for guessing?

[Anjam]

^^ The first picture Joannides posted is the Media City side.

BTW why aren't you on Facebook yet :bash:

[Tosh]

Thanks,Anjam.Will be on facebook In the next few days.
Been doing hospital trips with an ill mother the last few weeks.

[Anjam]

^^ You have mail!

[Tosh]

Yes I Do !! "crapberry" and "Iphone."
Alright! Alright! Get round to it tonight.

[Dubai_Steve]

Good luck trying to make your end of feb payments with no compensation.

£1 = AED 5.1 :(

[Joannides]

Did anyone get the letter from the developer in the post yet?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ no, don't be silly.

[Joannides]

it must be a problem with Royal Mail!

[Mistermark]

I emailed Giles today and received a reply from him. RERA haven't yet approved the letter, as anticipated, so it's delayed. They hope it will be approved this week. In the meantime, SP are looking at whether they can release some of the information (construction schedule etc) earlier.

[Dubai_Steve]

it must be a problem with Royal Mail!

no my gas bill arrived on time :bash:

[Anjam]

You still get your gas bill via the post? :bash:

[Tosh]

Does anybody know what has happened to the Land registry payments we made.Still no acknowledgement or confirmation of receipt of funds to date.

[scoobudubai]

Does anybody know what has happened to the Land registry payments we made.Still no acknowledgement or confirmation of receipt of funds to date.

Did you make the payment to either 1) the land registry 2) Torch Select Ltd.


-or-

Did you make the payment to a company nobody ever heard of?

[Anjam]

^^ Here we go again !

[CULWULLA]

I COUNT LEV50 IN CORE BOX OR 180M.
going well

[Anjam]

ok heres diagram update

23marina being left behind/

i thick Torch will be first to officailly be new tallest after Q1 in 2010.
then princess in 2011.

large
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35672655@N00/3214442801/sizes/o/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3345/3214442801_854a3373e1_b.jpg

Good Progress

[High Times]

Does anybody know what has happened to the Land registry payments we made.Still no acknowledgement or confirmation of receipt of funds to date.

Yes i have recieved my reciepts from the Select Group.

[desertweasel]

taken from the Harbour Hotel yesterday
http://i36.tinypic.com/2e3bg4y.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/35bv3x1.jpg

[Anjam]

^^ Great pics DW.

Marina Heights pool could do with a bit of landscaping :ohno:

[charlie big potatoes]

Hi This Harbour Hotel, has it a high bar or resturant open to the public?

[THEPOINT]

Hi This Harbour Hotel, has it a high bar or resturant open to the public?
Think so 234 SALE takes pics from there -

[CIPUS]

Hi This Harbour Hotel, has it a high bar or resturant open to the public?

^^


http://www.emirateshotelsresorts.com/the-harbour/en/the-experience/the-harbour-dining/penthouse-restaurant/

[charlie big potatoes]

Thanks CIPS. I will deff do the brunch there, I am back in half term (mid feb) and TT should be about level by then so will get some good shots. Are there any other great venues for eating drinking and taking pics?

[Tosh]

Guys,please read the attached RERA law introduced yesterday on Rental capping and Indexation.I know Rental income is a long way off (Don't shoot the messenger!!!) but it is worthwhile reading especially the rental Capping tables.

www.ameinfo.com/181938.html

[Imre]

^^some pics for you from the sea side

22/January/2009

The Torch

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1695/imresolt10jz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7234/imresolt12vt6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/691/imresolt22ys5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7368/imresolt24br0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9230/imresolt30qc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

... end best of block works;)

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4581/imresolt31bk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9652/imresolt35cq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6020/imresolt36yu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1493/imresolt38ko6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5635/imresolt40ph4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3620/imresolt47uf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3364/imresolt48pm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[mackie1964]

Many thanks Imre & desertweasel for the great photos

[MOAF]

Mr Imre Solt, Thank you for the great Pics once again...

[Imre]

thanks,

I put 37 pics here: www.imredubai.com (The Torch, Dubai Marina , Dubai , 22/January/2009)

[arfie]

Imre - Do you think there is any chance of this getting complete by end of next yr ?

[lovedubai]

I hope someone who has bought in the Torch is emailing the blockwork pictures to the developer!

[Imre]

Imre - Do you think there is any chance of this getting complete by end of next yr ?

I think the earliest handover date is 2011.

[High Times]

Why did I have this bad dream about you working for DS/SG? :dunno:

I'm flattered that your dreaming about me buddy. :hug:

[Anjam]

^^ I would be worried not flattered!

[Ben40]

I think the earliest handover date is 2011.

Looking at the brick work the bottom may be falling down before the top is built?? :ohno:

[Imre]

dont worry about the brick, will be covered:)

[Tosh]

They have already started to cover up! I can see black plastic bin bags in some pics.
On another note,which part of the Torch will be getting more sunshine ?which side of the Torch will get sunrise and which side will get sunset?

[Imre]

still no idea what is this:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3364/imresolt48pm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[High Times]

On another note,which part of the Torch will be getting more sunshine ?which side of the Torch will get sunrise and which side will get sunset?

This graphic shows exactly where the sun rises and sets Tosh E - W. Ignore the red lines, they are just my views over the top of the towers towards the sun setting on the Arabian Gulf.

http://i44.tinypic.com/24ct6c5.jpg

Here is a copy of the reciept for 1% payments (less personal data), in case it's making some people restless. I chased regularly to get mine.

http://i42.tinypic.com/358zzb7.jpg

No doubt scooby wont like the colour of ink used on the stationary or something.

Heres to floor 50 coming up soon. :cheers:

[Anjam]

Don't worry about the brickwork. I have seen similar if not worse on other buildings within the Marina. When I highlighted this on the relative threads I was told this is perfectly normal however now it relates to the Torch it suddenly becomes a problem!

The exterior will be clad and the interior will be covered in plasterboard so shouldn't crack.

[Anjam]

Tosh > Look at the positives, you will probably have the lowest aircon bill in the tower!

[Imre]

AC fee is same if you use or not you have to pay

[Anjam]

^^:)

You could have let him be happy for a while.

[Imre]

I think he is always happy:)

[Tosh]

Just happy to be on the planet!!!!!

[mackie1964]

Love it

[AltinD]

^^ XXXL? :dunno:

[Tosh]

BTW those black bags is s Torch scarecrow that is meant to scare birds or was it investors.Ha! Ha!

Oh! It's nearly Friday

[mackie1964]

^^ XXXL? :dunno:

You missed one X :lol::banana:

[Dubai_Steve]

Hope you are not on the floor directly above me :lol: :runaway:

[AltinD]

You missed one X :lol::banana:

I know, I'm such a loosy typer :laugh:


:)

[scoobudubai]

I haven't seen the sign in front of the Torch recently which says how many accidents / days to completion, is it still there?

Any news of the webcam promised by DS?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ keep up! they said a long time ago that it was their intention but that it is not legal to do so now or something. Anyway handover is this year according to SP, so why do you need one now :lol:

[scoobudubai]

^^ keep up! they said a long time ago that it was their intention but that it is not legal to do so now or something. Anyway handover is this year according to SP, so why do you need one now :lol:

oops i feel silly now...did it become illegal to have the sign or the webcam or both, and when?

[yecabel]

^^
you really hate this building, don't you?

[scoobudubai]

Yes i have recieved my reciepts from the Select Group.

As nobody else has confirmed this, could you provide a sample?

Sheltie (higher up in the trust ladder) have you been registered?

[scoobudubai]

^^
you really hate this building, don't you?

No, just the lies. (and yes the balcony, and the change of design)

[True Blue]

AC fee is same if you use or not you have to pay

Today I got 2009 fees for The Jewels. They have just finished installing chiller meters and everyone will pay according to usage. They have already halfed my chiller fee for last year from 4000AED to 2120AED. Chiller for communal areas is also billed seperatly.

I wonder if this will become the norm to encourage energy savings in the marina.

[High Times]

As nobody else has confirmed this, could you provide a sample?

Sheltie (higher up in the trust ladder) have you been registered?

Try reading recent posts before posting your usual bullshit. You might only look a little bit stupid then.

Here is a copy of the reciept for 1% payments (less personal data), in case it's making some people restless. I chased regularly to get mine.

http://i42.tinypic.com/358zzb7.jpg

No doubt scooby wont like the colour of ink used on the stationary or something.

Heres to floor 50 coming up soon. :cheers:

[scoobudubai]

Try reading recent posts before posting your usual bullshit. You might only look a little bit stupid then.

I think if you (sorry, I mean the real innocent investors) read all my posts 2-3 years ago you would not claim I am stupid. So many people ridiculed me at the time not to mention Naz UK & Morris, now look they have disappeared, a 100% u-turn, Naz UK claims he has taken all his money out of the UAE and is laughing at TT investors, Morris is on the Bay Central telling everyone to write to the developer "Bay Central Developments Ltd." not to the "Select" labyrinth where legal jurisdictions are nothing but a blur.

Are you renting your apt in TT yet, lots of money flowing in since handover in Jun 08?

Really, High Times is not genuine, do not trust him.

Would you like some samples of the ridicule I received 2-3 years ago, yet everything I said came to be true?

[scoobudubai]

Try reading recent posts before posting your usual bullshit. You might only look a little bit stupid then.

Clearly you are not registered yet with the land dept.

when did you send the money...when do you expect to be registered...gulp!

[scoobudubai]

Try reading recent posts before posting your usual bullshit. You might only look a little bit stupid then.

And -oh my god- the receipt is not even from the developer "Torch Select Ltd" with whom the contracts were written !! it's from..who??...!!

[THEPOINT]

Try reading recent posts before posting your usual bullshit. You might only look a little bit stupid then.
HT
I have this SP documnet for reg fees similar to yours also but it is not a RERA document and that is the issue here

[scoobudubai]

Try reading recent posts before posting your usual bullshit. You might only look a little bit stupid then.

Finally before my dog collapases after too many brandies (even he looks in disbelief) do you like the points 1) "all receipts are subject to realization" 2) "this receipt is computer generated hence does not not require signature"

wtf!!

[malec]

Don't worry about the brickwork. I have seen similar if not worse on other buildings within the Marina. When I highlighted this on the relative threads I was told this is perfectly normal however now it relates to the Torch it suddenly becomes a problem!

The exterior will be clad and the interior will be covered in plasterboard so shouldn't crack.

Of course it's a problem. Sure the building won't fall down but it will be very inefficient thermally and will just generally need a lot of maintenance since the wear and tear will have more of an effect here.

[scoobudubai]

Of course it's a problem. Sure the building won't fall down but it will be very inefficient thermally and will just generally need a lot of maintenance since the wear and tear will have more of an effect here.

malec, seriously need some advice here. what can we do right now, we are really worried and would like proper brickwork as i suggested even connemara walls would be far better

[scoobudubai]

malec, seriously need some advice here. what can we do right now, we are really worried and would like proper brickwork as i suggested even connemara walls would be far better

connemara walls:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0LYjQsQEbH0/SJ4sJ1QU7gI/AAAAAAAAAhk/otPLhQoafkk/IMG_3880_LimestoneFences.jpg

[High Times]

1- I think if you (sorry, I mean the real innocent investors) read all my posts 2-3 years ago you would not claim I am stupid.

2- Are you renting your apt in TT yet, lots of money flowing in since handover in Jun 08?

3- Really, High Times is not genuine, do not trust him.

4- Would you like some samples of the ridicule I received 2-3 years ago, yet everything I said came to be true?

scoobu,

1- If you knew that SP were such crooks and you could see all this so called deception and other conspiracy theories that you have been ridiculed for my question would be.

Why have you remained an investor/client with a company you so clearly distrust?

2- No I haven’t yet rented out my apartment. The contractual completion date for my units is still a long way off. I was also not naive enough to accept the completion date of a salesman with no real building knowledge or indeed much financial or real estate knowledge so I factored in an 18 month delay before expecting rental income by implementing a contingency fund with Funds in Dirham to MY expected completion date.

3- I have no desire to be trusted by anyone on this forum I myself trust very few people and would recommend that people do the same. I am a member here to learn more about Dubai, keep an eye on the projects of interest and to take this piss occasionally.

4- No scubu I don’t want to see sample of how you were ridiculed. It's much more fun for me to do it myself.

Clearly you are not registered yet with the land dept. when did you send the money...when do you expect to be registered...gulp!

Correct, my units are not yet registered with the Land department. All I have is proof of my money being paid into an account with Mashreq and a receipt from Select stating that I have paid my 1%. I have spoken directly with the Land department and they say that they are currently in the process of registering thousands of units and expect this to be completed by March 2009. I would imagine that select are not in any particular hurry as they will be sitting on their funds (and ours) and earning interest from it in the meantime. This may make some people unhappy. Personally I'm glad I paid for mine in November as the bill was paid from Sterling and the rate of exchange I secured in November was considerably better than what I could get had I waited until now to stop SP earning some interest on my funds.

And -oh my god- the receipt is not even from the developer "Torch Select Ltd" with whom the contracts were written !! it's from..who??...!!

We have not bought directly from the developer (The Torch LLC). We have used a 3rd party sales agent (Select Property UK).

This is the only reason we are being asked to pay now.

Finally before my dog collapases after too many brandies (even he looks in disbelief) do you like the points 1) "all receipts are subject to realization" 2) "this receipt is computer generated hence does not not require signature"

wtf!!

All receipts are subject to realisation, it is what’s known as "implied or assumed law". It has been this way for so long in developed countries that it is not usually written on receipts.

If you spend £100 on goods in a shop you will get a receipt for your goods. If you cancel your cheque or you have insufficient funds and the bank does not honour your cheque then your receipt is deemed "invalid" as it is subject to realization. So the reciept means nothing and the goods are owned by the shop not you, your reciept means nothing.

I agree, aving a company stamp instead of a signature is just plain lazy as far as am concerned. I'm sure if I insisted it was signed, I could get it signed but then if I had nothing better to do, I could ask to see verification of the person who signed it. I could also insist that they were in a position of authority within the company. Then I could insist on seeing their passport to make sure I knew exactly who they are.

I could go on, and on, and on, but I'll let you do that.

Bottom line is when you do any kind of business with anyone. You have to have an element of trust. that doesn’t mean to say you have to "trust them implicitly", but it does mean that you need to have an element of trust. To me it sounds like you have absolutely no trust with who you are doing business with and haven’t for many years.

So the obvious question is why are you still here?

Oh and scubu,

One more thing. Not that I am a moderator or have any desire to be one, but there really is no need for you to post 5 separate statements quoting the same quote over and over again on this thread.

Just put all your thoughts down on one single post. You can even multi quote in it if needs be. It's much easier then for people to skip past the crap they don’t want to read and look at what they think is relevant to them.

Try and put some thought into what you are trying to communicate instead of sat at home feeding your dog brandy, and hitting your keyboard like an imbecile.

[Ben40]

scoobu,

1- If you knew that SP were such crooks and you could see all this so called deception and other conspiracy theories that you have been ridiculed for my question would be.

Why have you remained an investor/client with a company you so clearly distrust?

2- No I haven’t yet rented out my apartment. The contractual completion date for my units is still a long way off. I was also not naive enough to accept the completion date of a salesman with no real building knowledge or indeed much financial or real estate knowledge so I factored in an 18 month delay before expecting rental income by implementing a contingency fund with Funds in Dirham to MY expected completion date.

3- I have no desire to be trusted by anyone on this forum I myself trust very few people and would recommend that people do the same. I am a member here to learn more about Dubai, keep an eye on the projects of interest and to take this piss occasionally.

4- No scubu I don’t want to see sample of how you were ridiculed. It's much more fun for me to do it myself.



Correct, my units are not yet registered with the Land department. All I have is proof of my money being paid into an account with Mashreq and a receipt from Select stating that I have paid my 1%. I have spoken directly with the Land department and they say that they are currently in the process of registering thousands of units and expect this to be completed by March 2009. I would imagine that select are not in any particular hurry as they will be sitting on their funds (and ours) and earning interest from it in the meantime. This may make some people unhappy. Personally I'm glad I paid for mine in November as the bill was paid from Sterling and the rate of exchange I secured in November was considerably better than what I could get had I waited until now to stop SP earning some interest on my funds.



We have not bought directly from the developer (The Torch LLC). We have used a 3rd party sales agent (Select Property UK).

This is the only reason we are being asked to pay now.



All receipts are subject to realisation, it is what’s known as "implied or assumed law". It has been this way for so long in developed countries that it is not usually written on receipts.

If you spend £100 on goods in a shop you will get a receipt for your goods. If you cancel your cheque or you have insufficient funds and the bank does not honour your cheque then your receipt is deemed "invalid" as it is subject to realization. So the reciept means nothing and the goods are owned by the shop not you, your reciept means nothing.

I agree, aving a company stamp instead of a signature is just plain lazy as far as am concerned. I'm sure if I insisted it was signed, I could get it signed but then if I had nothing better to do, I could ask to see verification of the person who signed it. I could also insist that they were in a position of authority within the company. Then I could insist on seeing their passport to make sure I knew exactly who they are.

I could go on, and on, and on, but I'll let you do that.

Bottom line is when you do any kind of business with anyone. You have to have an element of trust. that doesn’t mean to say you have to "trust them implicitly", but it does mean that you need to have an element of trust. To me it sounds like you have absolutely no trust with who you are doing business with and haven’t for many years.

So the obvious question is why are you still here?

Oh and scubu,

One more thing. Not that I am a moderator or have any desire to be one, but there really is no need for you to post 5 separate statements quoting the same quote over and over again on this thread.

Just put all your thoughts down on one single post. You can even multi quote in it if needs be. It's much easier then for people to skip past the crap they don’t want to read and look at what they think is relevant to them.

Try and put some thought into what you are trying to communicate instead of sat at home feeding your dog brandy, and hitting your keyboard like an imbecile.

Boring - meet up at sunset and sort it out !!

[scoobudubai]

Boring - meet up at sunset and sort it out !!

Thanks HT, we'll keep our registration dosh at home for another year whilst select companies play with yours!

[UK_TO_DUBAI]

i have been following this forum from almost 2 years....and i do consider some members comment very useful and HIGH TIMES, True Blue are some of them....its very easy to make negative comments on someones helpful comment...i do trust HIGH TIMES because i think he is more experienced than any of us in this forum...please read his comments...and the effort he is making to write meaningful comments....carry on HIGH TIMES...

[Beppe786]

^^^^ how much has high times paid you?

[UK_TO_DUBAI]

Pint of Lager and Packet of Crisp^^

oh i forgot very important member...thats IMRE....great photographs...though he is not taking much photographs of BC site...imre please take some BC photographs...

[mackie1964]

Great

[Rider]

Boring - meet up at sunset and sort it out !!

Errr I find that a more interesting read than your balcony self-appreciation posts and pointless jacuzzi updates.

[slowhand99]

i have been following this forum from almost 2 years....and i do consider some members comment very useful and HIGH TIMES, True Blue are some of them....its very easy to make negative comments on someones helpful comment...i do trust HIGH TIMES because i think he is more experienced than any of us in this forum...please read his comments...and the effort he is making to write meaningful comments....carry on HIGH TIMES...

hey, HT has been recommending buying UK banking shares over recent months and again 10 days ago. Look at them now another 80% down.

TB is OK though

[slowhand99]

scoobu,

Try and put some thought into what you are trying to communicate instead of sat at home feeding your dog brandy, and hitting your keyboard like an imbecile.

can scooby's dog ever walk straight?

[THEPOINT]

People say lots of things on Forums which they don't mean come on guys chill - TT will be finished 2 years from now and all will be well while your sipping your drinks at the pool !!

[Sheltie]

Had a phone call today from SP and they are still adamant it's a September 09 completion. He said a floor every 5 days and the inside would be finished as well. Have they all been told to say that to keep us sweet as I don't think they can really believe it.
He said compensation was still being checked by RERA (what's that all about) and we will get our letters middle of next week.

[AltinD]

I think they are confusing their tower with the long viaduct with some golden arch roof thingy here and there, on the other side of the highway. :nuts:

[True Blue]

I don't like any of them :)

...............

Watch it! The hit man I used to get rid of Morrismarina is doing a credit crunch sale :laugh:

[AltinD]

sure he is

http://i42.tinypic.com/21or9ug.jpg

[Mistermark]

Had a phone call today from SP and they are still adamant it's a September 09 completion. He said a floor every 5 days and the inside would be finished as well. Have they all been told to say that to keep us sweet as I don't think they can really believe it.


A while back I issued Giles with a wager via this forum: if my three Torch apartments are handed over to me, in a fully completed state, by 31 September 2009, I'll hand one of them back to him personally, the LLP fully paid off.

All I ask in return is that, for every three months thereafter, they waive the outstanding LPP instalments on one unit so I own that apartment outright.

Handover by 30/09/09 - Giles gets a free apartment, I have two on the LPP
Handover by 31/12/09 - I have three apartments on the LPP
Handover by 31/03/10 - I have two apartments on the LPP, one fully paid up
Handover by 31/06/1 - I have one apartment on the LPP, two fully paid up
Handover by 30/09/10 - I have three fully paid-up apartments

To spice things up, I'm tempted to take side bets from forum members on which scenario will come to pass. It's my bet that I'd end up with three fully paid-up apartments, because I don't believe we'll get the keys to our apartments by the end of September 2010, let alone 2009...

[scoobudubai]

A while back I issued Giles with a wager via this forum: if my three Torch apartments are handed over to me, in a fully completed state, by 31 September 2009, I'll hand one of them back to him personally, the LLP fully paid off.

All I ask in return is that, for every three months thereafter, they waive the outstanding LPP instalments on one unit so I own that apartment outright.

Handover by 30/09/09 - Giles gets a free apartment, I have two on the LPP
Handover by 31/12/09 - I have three apartments on the LPP
Handover by 31/03/10 - I have two apartments on the LPP, one fully paid up
Handover by 31/06/1 - I have one apartment on the LPP, two fully paid up
Handover by 30/09/10 - I have three fully paid-up apartments

To spice things up, I'm tempted to take side bets from forum members on which scenario will come to pass. It's my bet that I'd end up with three fully paid-up apartments, because I don't believe we'll get the keys to our apartments by the end of September 2010, let alone 2009...

my dog is on the brandy again...this is very interesting

[scoobudubai]

scoobu,

1- If you knew that SP were such crooks and you could see all this so called deception and other conspiracy theories that you have been ridiculed for my question would be.

Why have you remained an investor/client with a company you so clearly distrust?

2- No I haven’t yet rented out my apartment. The contractual completion date for my units is still a long way off. I was also not naive enough to accept the completion date of a salesman with no real building knowledge or indeed much financial or real estate knowledge so I factored in an 18 month delay before expecting rental income by implementing a contingency fund with Funds in Dirham to MY expected completion date.

3- I have no desire to be trusted by anyone on this forum I myself trust very few people and would recommend that people do the same. I am a member here to learn more about Dubai, keep an eye on the projects of interest and to take this piss occasionally.

4- No scubu I don’t want to see sample of how you were ridiculed. It's much more fun for me to do it myself.



Correct, my units are not yet registered with the Land department. All I have is proof of my money being paid into an account with Mashreq and a receipt from Select stating that I have paid my 1%. I have spoken directly with the Land department and they say that they are currently in the process of registering thousands of units and expect this to be completed by March 2009. I would imagine that select are not in any particular hurry as they will be sitting on their funds (and ours) and earning interest from it in the meantime. This may make some people unhappy. Personally I'm glad I paid for mine in November as the bill was paid from Sterling and the rate of exchange I secured in November was considerably better than what I could get had I waited until now to stop SP earning some interest on my funds.



We have not bought directly from the developer (The Torch LLC). We have used a 3rd party sales agent (Select Property UK).

This is the only reason we are being asked to pay now.



All receipts are subject to realisation, it is what’s known as "implied or assumed law". It has been this way for so long in developed countries that it is not usually written on receipts.

If you spend £100 on goods in a shop you will get a receipt for your goods. If you cancel your cheque or you have insufficient funds and the bank does not honour your cheque then your receipt is deemed "invalid" as it is subject to realization. So the reciept means nothing and the goods are owned by the shop not you, your reciept means nothing.

I agree, aving a company stamp instead of a signature is just plain lazy as far as am concerned. I'm sure if I insisted it was signed, I could get it signed but then if I had nothing better to do, I could ask to see verification of the person who signed it. I could also insist that they were in a position of authority within the company. Then I could insist on seeing their passport to make sure I knew exactly who they are.

I could go on, and on, and on, but I'll let you do that.

Bottom line is when you do any kind of business with anyone. You have to have an element of trust. that doesn’t mean to say you have to "trust them implicitly", but it does mean that you need to have an element of trust. To me it sounds like you have absolutely no trust with who you are doing business with and haven’t for many years.

So the obvious question is why are you still here?

Oh and scubu,

One more thing. Not that I am a moderator or have any desire to be one, but there really is no need for you to post 5 separate statements quoting the same quote over and over again on this thread.

Just put all your thoughts down on one single post. You can even multi quote in it if needs be. It's much easier then for people to skip past the crap they don’t want to read and look at what they think is relevant to them.

Try and put some thought into what you are trying to communicate instead of sat at home feeding your dog brandy, and hitting your keyboard like an imbecile.

HT would try to say your contract is with "The Torch BLT". It is not. It is with "Torch Select Ltd". This is a company registered in the jebbly jobbly free zone, a totally separate jurisdiction to Dubai, it's an offshore company where ownership is shrouded in the utmost secrecy. In the jebbly jobbly fee zone, a company consists of a minimum 2 directors and a company secretary, and their identities are sworn to secrecy. You will never discover who these people are. You may receive signatures, but these are authorised signatures designed to protect the identities of the directors and true owners (e.g. the signature on your contract, Mark Littlewood in our case, who is a director of Dubai Select / Select Property in the U.K. according to companies house records). Don't think Mark Stott. Don't think Mark Stott. Your dealings with 'Select whatever' is all designed to fool everyone so that nobody has any 'apparent' legal comeback, either in the UAE or the U.K. I feel sad for anybody who feels comforted by the comments of people like Naz U.K., Morrismarina, HT etc.

[yecabel]

A while back I issued Giles with a wager via this forum: if my three Torch apartments are handed over to me, in a fully completed state, by 31 September 2009, I'll hand one of them back to him personally, the LLP fully paid off.

All I ask in return is that, for every three months thereafter, they waive the outstanding LPP instalments on one unit so I own that apartment outright.

Handover by 30/09/09 - Giles gets a free apartment, I have two on the LPP
Handover by 31/12/09 - I have three apartments on the LPP
Handover by 31/03/10 - I have two apartments on the LPP, one fully paid up
Handover by 31/06/1 - I have one apartment on the LPP, two fully paid up
Handover by 30/09/10 - I have three fully paid-up apartments

To spice things up, I'm tempted to take side bets from forum members on which scenario will come to pass. It's my bet that I'd end up with three fully paid-up apartments, because I don't believe we'll get the keys to our apartments by the end of September 2010, let alone 2009...

keep dreaming! probably by 31/12/09 giles will had been made redundant.

[True Blue]

sure he is

http://i42.tinypic.com/21or9ug.jpg

I should help out that fellow Scotsman.

I'll phone him straight away and offer him 10,000AED for his car before he abandons it in the airport long stay:lol:

[Imre]

24/January/2009

The , Torch,Princess Tower and Dubai Marina

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1826/imresolt110ud5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6797/imresolt111he7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2094/imresolt117mj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3231/imresolt121qn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[scoobudubai]

nice photos

[Imre]

25/January/2009

The Torch,Princess Tower and the tallest block

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7853/imresolt11iw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5333/imresolt13qg4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2774/imresolt16wi2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8171/imresolt17es8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9991/imresolt72jg0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[THEPOINT]

Nice new photo spot IMRE

[charlie big potatoes]

I should help out that fellow Scotsman.

I'll phone him straight away and offer him 10,000AED for his car before he abandons it in the airport long stay:lol:

Think you got it wrong, she must be a project manageress driving that car, still must be loads of oppertunities as a hairdresser.

[True Blue]

Safe system of work:ohno:

Looking at the latest pictures of the Torch, I can't help but worry how unsafely they are working. There is no fall arrest system or debris catch nets. Not safe for anyone walking within 50m of this tower.

I also see the block work is falling way behind. Maybe the bricklayers have refused to work in the unsafe conditions. Would you like to work at an unprotected leading edge lifting heavy blocks? Walls have to go to a height of 3.3m so they are working off trestles or other unsafe platforms.

Take a look at Princess tower how they have a climbing scaffold which completely encloses about 4 floors. Everything on the outside of the building can be completed safely and quickly. Anything that falls would only fall max 2m.

The Torch site is unsafe for the workers and the passers by.

Give it a wide berth!

[HappyLarry]

Safe system of work:ohno:

Looking at the latest pictures of the Torch, I can't help but worry how unsafely they are working. There is no fall arrest system or debris catch nets. Not safe for anyone walking within 50m of this tower.

I also see the block work is falling way behind. Maybe the bricklayers have refused to work in the unsafe conditions. Would you like to work at an unprotected leading edge lifting heavy blocks? Walls have to go to a height of 3.3m so they are working off trestles or other unsafe platforms.

Take a look at Princess tower how they have a climbing scaffold which completely encloses about 4 floors. Everything on the outside of the building can be completed safely and quickly. Anything that falls would only fall max 2m.

The Torch site is unsafe for the workers and the passers by.

Give it a wide berth!

Point well made and a worrying site when compared with Imre's photos of Princess tower. Let's hope relevant inspectorate takes prompt action. The last thing investors here want to see is work being halted for lack of safety measures or a serious mishap as a consequence.
:ohno:

[Yousuf27]

I guessed it had to come eventually didn't it. The tower is rising with good pace and maybe we're looking at late 2010 instead of 2011 for completion. So now it's an unsafe site compared to others and everyone should keep away from it. As for speculation that the block layers might be on strike because of the unsafe conditions - surely you can do better than that! It's a shame your considerable knowledge is so liberally mixed with your bias and petty grievances with all things SP. Get real - there are unsafe practices going on on every site in the UAE. Any safety culture is a thin veneer throughout the region and onwards east. Safety is not allowed to get in the way of production. It isn't always about the policies a company has in place either. Some people are just incapable of being safe and prefer to trust their survival into old age to fate. It's a mindset which will take generations to shift.

[yecabel]

^^:hilarious

[mackie1964]

Fantasmic

[Yousuf27]

I wouldn't mind if TB was interested for the right reasons - and really cared about safety on this site or any other site. He isn't - it's just more of the same - mischief making and nothing more!

It's a shame that the guy can't be more objective; - he has so much to offer - he just belittles himself and destroys his own credibility when he writes the stuff he does on SP developments. I really don't understand why so many people kiss his ring and why he's so revered?

[True Blue]

I wouldn't mind if TB was interested for the right reasons - and really cared about safety on this site or any other site. He isn't - it's just more of the same - mischief making and nothing more!

It's a shame that the guy can't be more objective; - he has so much to offer - he just belittles himself and destroys his own credibility when he writes the stuff he does on SP developments. I really don't understand why so many people kiss his ring and why he's so revered?



I would be devastated if there was a loss of life on this site. If my comments result in action to prevent such an incident then I would be delighted.

[THEPOINT]

I would be devastated if there was a loss of life on this site. If my comments result in action to prevent such an incident then I would be delighted.

The personal feelings of owners/investors do not interest me.
Totally agree with you TB - this has NOTHING to do with any issues you have with SP -I,m in DUBAI soon and i,m keeping clear of TT

I share your reservations - Giles are you reading get the H&S sorted - corporate manslaughter indictments probably dont exist in UAE but I am well aware if them in UK