#UNDER C: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m

[dirtyharry1]

With all that shit happening in Dubai those days this thread is at least very funny:)

[foxy]

Without this thread I would have to purely rely on Select for info.

So I am happy with the contents of this thread.

Less happy with some unnecessary coarse language, especially when aimed at people who know what they are talking about.

[Morten_Denmark]

What floor no. are we at now ?

[jeffers]

What floor no. are we at now ?

51 I believe !

[Morten_Denmark]

51 I believe !

Good progress compared to elsewhere - not too long to completion if they continue in this way. Should I use the kids saving money and buy a small 1 bed here - he will thank me later in life I am sure :-)

[jeffers]

Good progress compared to elsewhere - not too long to completion if they continue in this way. Should I use the kids saving money and buy a small 1 bed here - he will thank me later in life I am sure :-)

Yeah, do it.. treat him !! :lol:

[Joannides]

they started fitting glass on the upper part of the building. will get some photos tomorrow morning.

[jeffers]

they started fitting glass on the upper part of the building. will get some photos tomorrow morning.

Looking forward to that then.:)

[Ben40]

I have just been told by SP that I can inspect my apartment on the 10th of November and pick up the keys in Jan 2010. Great.!! he kept licking his lips and clearing his throat and looking up and down as he was speaking,, maybe he was unwell.?

[jeffers]

I have just been told by SP that I can inspect my apartment on the 10th of November and pick up the keys in Jan 2010. Great.!! he kept licking his lips and clearing his throat and looking up and down as he was speaking,, maybe he was unwell.?

Are they ringing around or did you call them Ben ??

[Anjam]

^^ Ben40 must have met them. I don't think SP do video calls yet (reference to licking lips!)

[Anjam]

I have just been told by SP that I can inspect my apartment on the 10th of November and pick up the keys in Jan 2010. Great.!! he kept licking his lips and clearing his throat and looking up and down as he was speaking,, maybe he was unwell.?

Did he have his fingers crossed behind his back when he said the dates :bash:

[Dubai_Steve]

he kept licking his lips and clearing his throat and looking up and down as he was speaking

Hopefully he was just eating a bucket of KFC. :)

I am looking forward to seeing the new glass Joannides and hopefully some show apartment photos soon from Select?

[True Blue]

I have just been told by SP that I can inspect my apartment on the 10th of November and pick up the keys in Jan 2010. Great.!! he kept licking his lips and clearing his throat and looking up and down as he was speaking,, maybe he was unwell.?

He was shitting himself incase a bolt of lightning came from nowhere and struck him down dead, the lying bar steward.

[Yousuf27]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Must be you being got at over the bad language on this thread TB couldn't possibly be me - I'm always very polite when I write "f**k"

He was shitting himself incase a bolt of lightning came from nowhere and struck him down dead, the lying bar steward.

[Ben40]

Hopefully he was just eating a bucket of KFC. :)

I am looking forward to seeing the new glass Joannides and hopefully some show apartment photos soon from Select?

I asked him about them as well, and rather than answer the question, he wanted to know who told me. I said ''Giles on the thread''.. he said ''oh!'' big pause and then sort of changed the subject and said the best option for me in this case would be to buy a furniture pack from him!!

I had actually originally emailed him to get him to explain ''in words a human would understand'', a letter SP had sent me about compensation, or lack of it. He said ''due to legal terms'', ''legal terms'', ''beyond our control'', ''legal term''..ext, ext.. at that point I put my fingers in my ears and went naa, naa naaa until he went away.. as he was going he said ''just let me know if there is anything I can do (read, sell) just let me know''..


Chairman Mackie go for it,, the pages are just flowing..

[charlie big potatoes]

[QUOTE=Morten_Denmark;32126258]Good progress compared to elsewhere - not too long to completion if they continue in this way. Should I use the kids saving money and buy a small 1 bed here - he will thank me later in life I am sure :-)[/QUOTE

Dont waste your money Morton. Sure way to double your money in this market, fold it in half and stick it in your back pocket:lol:

This is making strange reading at the moment. Phrases like "I got my life savings tied up here" Hello, get real. This is OP, OP means gamble, rule of thumb, dont gamble with money you cant afford to lose, who in their right mind would gamble with the kids inheritance.. especially with a failed car dealer.

[Yousuf27]

Well I don't think many are here gambling with "throwaway" money! Guys - can anyone actually really afford to lose what they've laid out here; - and not care?

The kids inheritance? - what inheritance? They can make their own way - same as I did. Best lesson you can give them - "there's no such thing as a free lunch." Then I hope they'll grow up appreciating the finer points of "risk and reward;" - having watched their Dad winning or losing his pension fund!!:lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

Better to buy a Torch unit at 0% premium than keep your money in the bank.

[Joannides]

http://i44.tinypic.com/29dz47s.jpg



http://i44.tinypic.com/a4ub6x.jpg



http://i39.tinypic.com/x3e0ya.jpg



http://i40.tinypic.com/xbmnom.jpg



http://i41.tinypic.com/2cpyre1.jpg



http://i41.tinypic.com/2myb58j.jpg



http://i44.tinypic.com/n6exie.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

Fantastic update jo and real progress externally over the past couple of weeks.

[reillycorblimey]

Thanks joannides, for the photo's
I read the stuff on the forum everyday and I often get nervous and concerned with the things posted, just like alot of others i guess.
however seeing photo's like this really helps get things back into focus.
what a great tower this is going to be!!
:)

[ZARO786]

Hi all - I am new to this forum. I thought I would come out of the closet!
As an investor in this project, I have been reading postings practically every day. I would like to thank all of you (esp. Jo and Imre for the regular photos) who are endlessly contributing to this site. The update somewhat gives me confidence in this project.

[Anjam]

Joannides > You have made my day :cheers:

Reillycorblimey > Any news? Drop me a line.

[jeffers]

So what have we got, nearly the whole back side has now been clad upto floor change in alu, and the balcony glass on the lower levels has started appearing, and we can really start to see the curves in the glass above the floor change, this will look pretty special. Thanks again Joannides, who needs official construction updates. :D

[Morten_Denmark]

[QUOTE=Morten_Denmark;32126258]Good progress compared to elsewhere - not too long to completion if they continue in this way. Should I use the kids saving money and buy a small 1 bed here - he will thank me later in life I am sure :-)[/QUOTE

Dont waste your money Morton. Sure way to double your money in this market, fold it in half and stick it in your back pocket:lol:

This is making strange reading at the moment. Phrases like "I got my life savings tied up here" Hello, get real. This is OP, OP means gamble, rule of thumb, dont gamble with money you cant afford to lose, who in their right mind would gamble with the kids inheritance.. especially with a failed car dealer.

Hi Charlie - I am kidding regarding using the kids money - in fact he used them all buying a piece of toy the other day :-) On the other hand I dont see buying real estate as a gamble if you are able to pay with your own money and not the banks money - in fact I believe it is the best investment as you also can enjoy the investment unless paper. Enough regarding the money talk - and I promise not to use the kids money :-)

Somehow I like the Torch - located nicely - nice tower - really cheap. Will give a good rental income I am sure in a couple of years time.

[Anjam]

Morten > I would prefer the term "Modestly Priced" rather than "Cheap" :)

Thanks for your honest comments :cheers:

[Dubai_Steve]

Great update! The glass on the upper floors will look really nice.

http://i42.tinypic.com/idu3x4.jpg

Pinocchio discovered on the Torch podium :lol:

[jeffers]

Perhaps he's the guy that's been advising on completion date to Select all this time, with every lie his conk grows just a little bigger !!

[yecabel]

great pics, many thanks!

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zfrf9t.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/okcttx.jpg

[Joannides]

Hi all - I am new to this forum. I thought I would come out of the closet!
As an investor in this project, I have been reading postings practically every day. I would like to thank all of you (esp. Jo and Imre for the regular photos) who are endlessly contributing to this site. The update somewhat gives me confidence in this project.

Welcome to the forum:)

[Joannides]

the extractor fan in picture 5 looks cheap and nasty...i hope its not an indication of what to come.

[charlie big potatoes]

what appt number are the kitchen and bathroom from do you have any idea?

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i44.tinypic.com/no7h1k.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

the extractor fan in picture 5 looks cheap and nasty...i hope its not an indication of what to come.

Same as The Point but only £30 to replace with a better silver one.

[Dubai_Steve]

You should have recently received a letter from the developer regarding the progress of your property. In summary there’s been a further delay to the anticipated completion of The Torch, which now means that the building is expected to be complete in January 2010. This delay was attributed to several factors largely beyond the developer’s control, including planning permit delays and an introduction of new regulations by the Dubai Government.

However, the developer is confident, based on its current schedule, that you will be invited to inspect your property from September this year and have made a compensatory payment offer of interest on all the payments you’ve made on or before 30th June 2009 until the new anticipated completion date in January 2010. Whilst there has been some frustration expressed about the extended delays to this project, the developer has asked for purchasers’ continued patience and support in their attempts to achieve the earliest possible completion of your property.

Select Property will keep the ambitious revised schedule under close scrutiny throughout this year and we will do our utmost to keep you reliably informed of actual progress compared against the plan to assist in the planning of your finances and any visits to view the property.

We’re pleased to inform you that construction during January has continued at a sustained rate with between 4 and 6 floors completing each month. The project is approximately 60% complete up to the 39th floor with tile works, internal walls, plastering and the first coat of paint finalised in each property. The casting for the 52nd slab has now been successfully laid and castings for the 54th and 55th floor are currently underway. External aluminium cladding and balconies have been added to approximately 28% of the structure so far and the 1st fix and internal block work is currently up to the 43rd floor. In line with the new completion date of January 2010 projected, the structure is expected to be complete by July this year, and external cladding and temporary power connection is anticipated to be complete by the end of August.

[Dubai_Steve]

Proposed changes in payment collection rules

Many of you will be aware that there is mounting speculation about RERA introducing a regulation whereby developers cannot collect more than 20% payment from their customers until building work commences on each relevant development. Whilst there would appear to be some draft regulations under review this is not something that either Select Property or Select Group has been made aware of by RERA.We are currently trying to obtain clarification on the matter and will inform you of any resulting impact on your purchase. In the meantime scheduled payments must be made as per your sales & purchase agreement.

[Joannides]

Same as The Point but only £30 to replace with a better silver one.


bloody hell! its all the same (worktops, units)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=335563&page=52

[charlie big potatoes]

Jo you sound so suprised, even upset. What did you expect Gagennau and Villeroy? The only thing different is the view.

[HateTorch]

--- snip ---

These pictures remind me of the Marina Heights kitchen color scheme.

[charlie big potatoes]

Not so funny now Beppe is it, you to could have a LUXURY kitchen like us one day.

[Joannides]

Jo you sound so suprised, even upset. What did you expect Gagennau and Villeroy? The only thing different is the view.

you're right. i guess i should be happy i'm not still staring at a hole in the ground :)

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zfrf9t.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/okcttx.jpg

I presume this is a 1 bed type A floorplan

http://i41.tinypic.com/209m3vp.jpg

[Morrismarina]

^^The kithens and bathroms aren't, to be fair, as bad as I imagined from earlier pics. Looks OK but I would have preferred light wood. The kitchen is from a one bed that was redesigned being Marina View and Media City facing. Seems a lot of cupboard space in the kitchen. :)

[Morrismarina]

Your post went up just before mine Steve. Your are correct. Pic No. 4 is from a two bed.

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i42.tinypic.com/b9fw38.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2z4zlmp.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2eyxuo0.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/14tsmxz.jpg

[mackie1964]

Lovely, Great, Smashing, wonderful :banana:

What can I say anymore :dunno:

[True Blue]

I quite like the dark wood, infact I can picture the kitchen with some blue led plinth lighting and some modern under cabinet halogen fittings. BUT that extractor is taking the piss! Must have cost about £9.99. I would rip it off the wall and throw it at them during the snagging inspection.

[mackie1964]

^^What do you know about Interior Design TB, Stick to concrete :banana:

It's a lovely Extractor :cheers:

[Dubai_Steve]

It's a lovely Extractor :cheers:

who needs that ponsy Marinascape finish anyway :lol:

I need a beer...

[Morrismarina]

I quite like the dark wood, infact I can picture the kitchen with some blue led plinth lighting and some modern under cabinet halogen fittings.

It's a holy miracle. :bow: A truly momentous occasion. :cheer: TB actually likes something about The Torch. :rock:

[Tosh]

Steve,Do you know what type apartment the last photo is from? Is it from a 2 bed 12 unit or 1 bed 01 unit?

[Dubai_Steve]

Not sure, bizzy said he took the photos from the 36th floor of the Torch.

[Tosh]

what appt number are the kitchen and bathroom from do you have any idea?

I think these pics are from Unit 702 or 802.

[Ben40]

Glad to everyone has cheered up just a little bit for a page or two.. I was getting depressed.

[AltinD]

I need a beer...

You said you didn't drink :ohno:

[mackie1964]

who needs that ponsy Marinascape finish anyway :lol:

I wouldn’t live there if they paid me :cry: :cry:

[Beppe786]

Not so funny now Beppe is it, you to could have a LUXURY kitchen like us one day.

We will have too see what BC has... but im confident that BC will be better... :nuts:

[AltinD]

^^ No problem, you keep the money I keep the flat. Do we have a deal Mackie? :dunno:

[Yousuf27]

We will have too see what BC has... but im confident that BC will be better... :nuts:

On what grounds do you base that optomistic statement? It'll be exactly the same.

[Beppe786]

^^ im hoping there run out of the dark wood affect units..

[ramzy]

Do you think the units above floor 30 will have better cupboards, finishing... Seeing they are more expensive I would have thought so. I am below floor 30 so will have toaccept the dark wood. Ho hum. Still at least we have something. Better than nothing so I won't complain too much right now. Will wAit for snagging.

[Tractor]

The kitchen cabinets and skirting look IDENTICAL to the nasty stuff in Marina Heights. Looks OK in photos & from a distance but you'll soon realise how cheap and horrible it is when you're actually up close :(

[Imre]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zfrf9t.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/okcttx.jpg



I had the same "luxury kitchen" in the Marina Diamond 2:)

[Naz UK]

Have to admit, these are not the kind of fixtures and fittings I expected in the Torch. Very disappointing. And the extractor fan really takes the biscuit.

[Dubai_Steve]

This is the marina diamond kitchen. :lol:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3344/img3337hr6.jpg

Personally I prefer the Torch kitchen. Good enough for a rental unit.

http://i42.tinypic.com/okcttx.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

Here is a Harbour Hotel 2 bed kitchen (next door to the Torch), quite similar cheap dark wood kitchen cupboard. Rental rates are £300 per night for a 1 bed including breakfast.

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/21/d6/f5/kitchen.jpg

For the Torch, according to the contract included in the price are:

fridge/freezer
cooker
washer/dryer
provision for dish washer
point source down lights for the counter lighting

I would prefer that silver/chrome items are fitted rather than white. I wonder if it is possible to upgrade before they are purchased in bulk and fitted?

If they are fitting cheap white goods (as indicated by the cooker hood) I would prefer that they are not fitted at all and a discount is given towards purchasing your own.

[Dubai_Steve]

Night view from the Torch.

http://i43.tinypic.com/6zx4pf.jpg

[Joannides]

Night view from the Torch.

http://i43.tinypic.com/6zx4pf.jpg

Great picture, Steve.

[High Times]

This is the marina diamond kitchen. :lol:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3344/img3337hr6.jpg

Personally I prefer the Torch kitchen. Good enough for a rental unit.

http://i42.tinypic.com/okcttx.jpg

I agree Steve,

I dont think a tennant will be that bothered about what colour the kitchen cupboards are. Tennants are more interested in the location of the tower, what resteraunts are nearbye, how long it takes to get to the metro. how many hotel bars are within staggering distance. Views (to a degree), but most importantly PRICE. As long as the kitchen has got a kettle and a fridge for some milk i think thats most of the boxes ticked for most tennants.

It would be nice if SP offered different options for those wishing to upgrade fixtures and fittings but with 600 odd units it would be a logistical nightmare i imagine, and would only slow things down. I think they are missing a trick though as any builder makes good profit on "the extras" just like other proffessions i could mention.

SP are obviously using the econemies of scale rule to the max and have probably negotiated huge discounts by ordering the same kit for The Point, The Torch and Bay Central.

If this is a home/holiday home then i would budget around £10k for a refit as i have yet to see a finish in Dubai that would meet "luxury stadards" in the UK or even Europe for that matter, and i include most hotels in that statement. Hilton, Westin, Meridien etc.

Ultimatley this is Asia, and most buildings are finished to an Asian standard.

I think we should all save the white extracor fans and stack them up in front of SP's Dubai office doors though.

There just nasty. :ohno:

[Morrismarina]

The tiles certainly look better than those in Marina Diamond. At least they're a nice neutral colour. Overall I can live with this. Even if I was going to live there myself I doubt I'd start upgrading. Kitchen is a good size with loads of worktop space, plenty of room for the empty pizza boxes. :lol:

TB thinks it look OK, so that's good enough for me. :lol:

[Morrismarina]

:shocked: I see Marina Diamond has a gas cooker. Surely TT wouldn't have a gas supply in a tower this large, is there not a risk of the whole tower being blown up ??

[High Times]

Joking aside will there be gas in the tower (for cooking that is)

[Tosh]

It appears to me from picture 5 that there will be a free standing cooker/oven of 600mm as there is a gap between the kitchen units.If that is the case and not a fitted built in hob/ oven then this is absolute crap . Tell me that I am wrong guys!!

[charlie big potatoes]

It appears to me from picture 5 that there will be a free standing cooker/oven of 600mm as there is a gap between the kitchen units.If that is the case and not a fitted built in hob/ oven then this is absolute crap . Tell me that I am wrong guys!!

No you are not wrong. Like TP you have this gap for a free standing oven, nothing built in. TP is all electric so maybe no gas here. That 2 burner hob is supplied by LPG via the industry coded YELLOW pipe running down the surface.

[jeffers]

I think as long as the kitchen cascases are OK, the doors can be changed if they are anything like the usual crap I have seen in friends properties in Dubai..( hope none of them are reading this post) The bathroom is a disapointment though, I watched a B & Q advert on TV last night, Whole bathroom for £125.OO.. the bath looked familiar, cheep resin bath with platsic side, not my idea of "luxury". I remember someone posted a pic of Iris Blue bathroom, simply not comparable.. and the taps and above surface mixer valve looks more like "bryant homes" then luxury... All this is OK for rental to start with, but will need changing as to offer that little bit extra when the market is full of available units.. I guess marble tiles are a lot cheaper nowadays and would prefer nothing than the ceramic they are fitting. I know its all in the dressing of the unit that makes the impact, but still disapointing.. I was even told back in 2005 by the initial sales person that we would be called to Select office to choose our units and tiles, fittings etc... seems stupid now to have even believed that this was going to happen.. I think I need to work on my expectation management my wife has told me... "expect crap and expect to replace the crap" I agree with Steve on the appliances, I can only imagine what boll*cks is going to be fitted, some unknown brand with stock left over from the 90's found at the back of some warehouse somewhere... Right I've had my rant... On a positive note I see they are displaying level 52 now... Oh, and its valentines day !! :kiss:

[Dubai_Steve]

I remember someone posted a pic of Iris Blue bathroom, simply not comparable..

Iris Blue

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6594/img2834cm2.jpg http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6994/img2835ry8.jpg
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6554/img2838ez3.jpg http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6606/img2839ku5.jpg

[Tosh]

Okay! Even if there is no LPG, I would still expect an electric hob with a built in oven and not a free standing cooker from the 60's.This is not on!!

[Naz UK]

Steve, do you think the Iris Blue interiors are better than the Torch?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ yes but they were sold at original prices starting around 1300 psf for marina view. Current resale asking prices are 1800 psf to 2600 psf for a 1 bed.

[Dubai_Steve]

Okay! Even if there is no LPG, I would still expect an electric hob with a built in oven and not a free standing cooker from the 60's.This is not on!!

Agree with you Tosh. Problem is that to just change to a built in oven you have to change the entire kitchen as you probably can't find the same marble/granite worksurface anywhere.

[jeffers]

Thanks for posting that again Steve its like Grosvenor house compared to a Travelodge.., Well at least i might get something better in my Pacific Unit.... who the f*** am i kidding..:ohno: expectation management, expectation management, i must work on this... Anyone fancy investing offplan with this outfit again ?? NOT in my lifetime.

[Dubai_Steve]

:lol: I wonder if Aquitania will get the same kitchens.

[THEPOINT]

:lol: I wonder if Aquitania will get the same kitchens.If it's ever built yes !

[Rider]

Maybe chrome will be 'sooo 2009' with white being all the rage again by the time we get our keys...

[charlie big potatoes]

Forget comparing this kitchen with Iris Blue and the 1300 launch. Have a look at PI and see the quality there and that was launched a lot less. As I said previously these tiny kitchens and bathrooms do not cost a fortune to replace. That Iris Blue bathroom and kitchen would come to less than 10k stg fitted. Remember to haggle, one contractor in Dubai has just quoted 120k dhs to fit a hot tub on the balcony in Oceanic, after refusal and several reductions he came down to 30k dhs as he was leaving the appt. Nice work if you can get it!

[True Blue]

Iris Blue is one of the best finished towers in the marina. Developers just do not offer that level of finish and equipment as a standard range, normaly that would be an upgrade standard. Agents I have spoken to tell me that Iris Blue is in high demand for rentals and achieves top of the market prices. The pool area and views are as good as you get.

I think the kitchen units in Torch are about right for a mass market tower. White goods look cheap and bring the appearance down though.

I am not a fan of the kitchen units fitted in my Dorrabay apartment but everyone who has seen it raves about it. It has alot to do with personal taste.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6599/img0553qi5.jpg

[Saggy_Toad]

Hi guys!

This is my first post but have been following all your comments for a while. I must admit my patience is also running thin and the quality of the interior layout hasn't boosted my confidence any. I'm going over in April and going to go over everything with a fine tooth-comb. I've got a 2 bed on the 32nd (38th floor: still cant get an exact location from D.S!!) I must admit, if it wasn't for the team back in Wilmslow, I would have abandoned the project a long time ago. I'm going to do my best to scrutinize the finish quality when I get over there (even if I have to break into the Point!!!). You may be pleased to know that I am a Kitchen fitter and believe me, I am very particular when it comes to finish standards.

[High Times]

Welcome Toad. :)

Is anyone a plummer ?

I have done quite a bit of tiling and grouting in my time.

Lets get together and form "The Torch Refit LLC Group PLC" offshore cayman island incorparated trust company.

This time next year weel be miwyonaires.

[Yousuf27]

Saggy, you'll be very disappointed wherever you go in the UAE. North European finishing standards don't exist anywhere really. The workforce is insufficiently trained, skilled, supervised, managed and motivated. You'll have to have to look at a few places and then reposition your benchmark.

Having said that - what you'll find will probably be as good as you would find in a large UK Developer mass market newbuild, which is utter and complete crap. I replaced the kitchen and all 3 bathrooms in my UK house as soon as I moved in - and I would probably do the same in my place in the Torch if I intended to live in it. Probably be OK for renting as is unless tenants are in short supply and a "wow factor" is required to attract the business.

[charlie big potatoes]

Welcome Toad. :)

Is anyone a plummer ?

I have done quite a bit of tiling and grouting in my time.

Lets get together and form "The Torch Refit LLC Group PLC" offshore cayman island incorparated trust company.

This time next year weel be miwyonaires.

Could be right Rodders. I can recommend a good plumma. Charlie Mullins of Pimlico Plumbing, first million pound a year plumber, or so he thought :lol:

[Rider]

I've just looked at the Torch kitchen again compared with the others and the cupboards look mediocre. The problem for me lies with the tiles, worktops and white goods. The worktop surfaces look to be the same as the bathroom! I imagine that lighting under the upper kitchen units, which looks great in the evening, is non-existent.

[Morrismarina]

Looking at the kitchen there appears to be a space only for the cooker. So the fridge/freezer, washer/dryer and provision for dish washer must be inbuilt behind the cupboard doors. So if they are going to be white we'll not see then anyway. :cheers:

[High Times]

^^ yes but they were sold at original prices starting around 1300 psf for marina view. Current resale asking prices are 1800 psf to 2600 psf for a 1 bed.

The difference in purchace price of AED 100 psf on an average 2 bed of 1200psf is AED 120,000 (£22,600) in todays terms. Thats more than enough to refit a kitchen and a bathroom to a very decent standard in Dubai. Although the Iris Bue kitchen is obviously superior in quality of materiels used. I prefer the asthetic look of the Torch kitchen.

True Blue's kitchen in Dorra Bay is also better quality than the Torch but astheticaly to me, it looks horrible.

So the best solution would be to offer a choice to customers.
Second best option is to fit cheap crap cause its going in a skip anyway.
Disaster for me would be to have paid top dollar for a high end fit out only to find that it wasn't to my taste.

Whats important in my view is the common areas and exterior from the point of view of the project itself as this can not be changed.

If you think about it from the point of view of a new housing estate in the UK. The tower is the estate and all the appartments are the houses. From the outside they all look the same. The builder is fitting the cheapest crap he can get his hands on to squeeze as much profit as he can out of the job.

Once the builder is gone and you move in you can make the place exactly how you want it for relatively little cost.

The communal areas, lifts, lobby etc are the roads and landscaping of the estate and need to be fuctional and look pretty. What can't be changed is the location of the project and how it looks from the outside.

Unfortunatley for Select Property they are slowly building a reputation for themsleves as a cheap cowboy outfit who constantly lie to their customers.

They do however seem to be astute enough to play the PR game well so i am hoping that they dont let themsleves down with regard to the outside of the property and it's common areas.

From the outside looking in it will either be WOW, look at the Torch, or OH DEAR, look at the Torch

This is how Select will be judged publicly by non investors.

[Saggy_Toad]

So much for the completion date of Jan 2009.At the sounds of it,it will be another 6 months of work going on with owners re-fitting everything.I hope that nothing gets built in front of the torch as the space will be needed for all of the skips!!!! Maybe thats going to be the next big business out there...whos up for a new venture!!!!

[Morrismarina]

If looking for the long term rental market is it really worth spending yet more money changing the kitchens and bathrooms ?? They of course have to be up to a certain standard to attract a tenant and I think with TT the fitments are of sufficient quality for rental. Based on a one bed as an example, yes you could get an extra 10,000 Dirhams rent a year (at best) for an uprated kitchen and bathroom but if this is going to cost you 50,000 (if you're lucky) you will only be breaking even after 5 years which is a long time to expect a kitchen and bathroom to remain in good condition with a tenant in situ.

Best option IMO would be to forgo the extra rent, get 5 years life out of the standard fit kitchen/bathroom and upgrade in say 5 years time, which is what you'd have to do anyway. That way you get some use out of the existing fitments rather them throwing them in a skip from day one. Certainly this is what a profession landlord would be doing in the UK, can't see why this would not apply to the Dubai market.

On another issue I take it that some of you (eg. HT, Mistermark and Mackie) have now negotiated a favourable deal with SG over the compensation on a strictly non-disclosure basis, as it's all gone very quiet and some of you have removed your posts ?? Wow.... I always knew Mackie was a really clever, guy but not this good !!! :lol:

[charlie big potatoes]

The difference in purchace price of AED 100 psf on an average 2 bed of 1200psf is AED 120,000 (£22,600) in todays terms. Thats more than enough to refit a kitchen and a bathroom to a very decent standard in Dubai. Although the Iris Bue kitchen is obviously superior in quality of materiels used. I prefer the asthetic look of the Torch kitchen.

True Blue's kitchen in Dorra Bay is also better quality than the Torch but astheticaly to me, it looks horrible.

So the best solution would be to offer a choice to customers.
Second best option is to fit cheap crap cause its going in a skip anyway.
Disaster for me would be to have paid top dollar for a high end fit out only to find that it wasn't to my taste.

Whats important in my view is the common areas and exterior from the point of view of the project itself as this can not be changed.

If you think about it from the point of view of a new housing estate in the UK. The tower is the estate and all the appartments are the houses. From the outside they all look the same. The builder is fitting the cheapest crap he can get his hands on to squeeze as much profit as he can out of the job.

Once the builder is gone and you move in you can make the place exactly how you want it for relatively little cost.

The communal areas, lifts, lobby etc are the roads and landscaping of the estate and need to be fuctional and look pretty. What can't be changed is the location of the project and how it looks from the outside.

Unfortunatley for Select Property they are slowly building a reputation for themsleves as a cheap cowboy outfit who constantly lie to their customers.

They do however seem to be astute enough to play the PR game well so i am hoping that they dont let themsleves down with regard to the outside of the property and it's common areas.

From the outside looking in it will either be WOW, look at the Torch, or OH DEAR, look at the Torch

This is how Select will be judged publicly by non investors.

High Times are you saying that a like for like appt in Iris Blue was JUST 22k more than TT? And re your comments interiors against common parts I have always found they stay in line. Marina Diamond shit interiors and common parts, Marina Heights poor interoirs and common parts, Marina Promenade average interiors average common parts, Marinascape slightly above average interiors and same for common parts, Grosvenor house slightly better again. You see it follows a pattern. You are not going to get 100 dollar a meter marble, shadow gaps and polished plaster throughout if they are prepared to fit the appts out to a council standard. Asthetically you prefer TT kitchen, did they forget the overhang on the BB so you could get your legs under or would it foul the door next to the lovely fusebox. Get real.

[Imre]

15/February/2009

The Torch

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5620/imresolt18yp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9103/imresolt43xe4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5565/imresolt51qf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9333/imresolt63yc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8650/imresolt64gk8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6240/imresolt16la2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[hawki]

The difference in purchace price of AED 100 psf on an average 2 bed of 1200psf is AED 120,000 (£22,600) in todays terms. Thats more than enough to refit a kitchen and a bathroom to a very decent standard in Dubai. Although the Iris Bue kitchen is obviously superior in quality of materiels used. I prefer the asthetic look of the Torch kitchen.

True Blue's kitchen in Dorra Bay is also better quality than the Torch but astheticaly to me, it looks horrible.

So the best solution would be to offer a choice to customers.
Second best option is to fit cheap crap cause its going in a skip anyway.
Disaster for me would be to have paid top dollar for a high end fit out only to find that it wasn't to my taste.

Whats important in my view is the common areas and exterior from the point of view of the project itself as this can not be changed.

If you think about it from the point of view of a new housing estate in the UK. The tower is the estate and all the appartments are the houses. From the outside they all look the same. The builder is fitting the cheapest crap he can get his hands on to squeeze as much profit as he can out of the job.

Once the builder is gone and you move in you can make the place exactly how you want it for relatively little cost.

The communal areas, lifts, lobby etc are the roads and landscaping of the estate and need to be fuctional and look pretty. What can't be changed is the location of the project and how it looks from the outside.

Unfortunatley for Select Property they are slowly building a reputation for themsleves as a cheap cowboy outfit who constantly lie to their customers.

They do however seem to be astute enough to play the PR game well so i am hoping that they dont let themsleves down with regard to the outside of the property and it's common areas.

From the outside looking in it will either be WOW, look at the Torch, or OH DEAR, look at the Torch

This is how Select will be judged publicly by non investors.


Dont know about the rest of you but I am getting pulled down by SP and all the lies over the past 3-4 years. The design change- the delays the compensation the lux kitchens and bathrooms, the views, what would be built infront by the marina-the list is endless. I wonder if any of you can beat this one. I was told that i would be able to turn on my air conditioning by text message before i flew into Dubai !!!! I dont believe anything they say. I would not reccomend them. They have sold us a Rolls-Royce idea and are delivering a ford fiesta!! In the sales world which they seem to focus on you are taught to undersell and over-deliver they have clearly not read this chapter of the book High Times is right you will get cheap everything here that will not last and the building will be tatty in a couple of years- how short sighted they are to treat customers like this ! I thought this was their flagship Does anyone also know where we are with the plot on the marina side!!!!!

[Blizzy]

Nice hole :)

[Dubai_Steve]

Looking at the kitchen there appears to be a space only for the cooker. So the fridge/freezer, washer/dryer and provision for dish washer must be inbuilt behind the cupboard doors. So if they are going to be white we'll not see then anyway. :cheers:

I think the fridge/freezer will be free standing to the left of the front door. Check the floorplan below.

http://i41.tinypic.com/209m3vp.jpg

[High Times]

High Times are you saying that a like for like appt in Iris Blue was JUST 22k more than TT?

No i am not saying that. I am saying that if Iris Blue (as an example) was bought at 1000 psf and the Torch was bought at 1100 psf that is a difference of 100 psf in purchase costs to a buyer, which may well be down to the fact that Iris Blue is superior in quality to the Torch.

On a 1200 sf unit this represents 120,000 which is roughly £22k.

I dont know if these are accurate figures but i am just going on what has already been posted. Fact is Iris Blue is better quality finish, but more expensive.

All i am saying is for me personaly i would rather decide how to spend the £22k on purchasing and installing materials of my own choosing rather than a builder fitting what he decides as better quality goods, but might not be to my asthetical choice (or rather my wifes).


And re your comments interiors against common parts I have always found they stay in line. Marina Diamond shit interiors and common parts, Marina Heights poor interoirs and common parts, Marina Promenade average interiors average common parts, Marinascape slightly above average interiors and same for common parts, Grosvenor house slightly better again. You see it follows a pattern. You are not going to get 100 dollar a meter marble, shadow gaps and polished plaster throughout if they are prepared to fit the appts out to a council standard.

Yes you may well be right here, if you are then i will be dissapointed. My point was that SP will be judged publicly by how the outside of the tower and public areas look more than individual appartments themselves.


Asthetically you prefer TT kitchen, did they forget the overhang on the BB so you could get your legs under or would it foul the door next to the lovely fusebox. Get real.

Yes the BB looks shit i agree, but i dont have a 2 bed with this design so it is irelavent to me.

Also i have yet to get really turned on by any fusebox i have had the pleasure of viewing, worldwide. If you have any examples of how fantasic a fuse box cover can look then please do post a pic and i can share in your exitement.:)

[charlie big potatoes]

High Times what I am saying in laymans terms 22k buys you a whole lot more in IB than TT and the shrewd money would of been placed here. Its a small price to pay for knowing what you are going to get and thrown into the bargain you have decent facilities. Try www.fuseboards.com if that floats your boat.

[High Times]

High Times what I am saying in laymans terms 22k buys you a whole lot more in IB than TT and the shrewd money would of been placed here. Its a small price to pay for knowing what you are going to get and thrown into the bargain you have decent facilities. Try www.fuseboards.com (http://www.fuseboards.com) if that floats your boat.


Thanks for the link, interesting stuff. :cheers:


Presuimng that you had a choice of towers in basicaly the same locaion, providing basicaly the same facilities.

Out of interest, would you rather give a builder £22k to spend on interior finishes that guarateed good quality, but no choice of design, asthetics, coulors, specification etc.

Or would you rather pay the builder £22k less for the shell, and kit it out exactly to your own tastes, needs and choices?

[Tosh]

AME INFO PRESS RELEASE : 15th FEB 2009

Some Quotes from the release a few hours ago:

International Property Show - Dubai 2009 opens with over 150 exhibitors from 20 countries

H.H. Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum, Chairman, Dubai Land Department inaugurated today (February 15, 2009), the 'International Property Show - Dubai 2009', property exhibition.
The show is set to showcase exceptional development projects from over 150 exhibitors from across the globe that are seeking to leverage the high attendance of international and regional investors at the annual industry event.

Strategic Marketing and Exhibitions (SME), the event organiser, has revealed that the show, which will run until February 17, 2009 at the Dubai International Convention and Exhibition Centre (DIEC), is set to capitalise on the shift in property prices in Dubai, as well as the projected rise in the number of expatriates in the emirate in 2009.

Amidst the projections that Dubai's economy will expand by 2.5% in 2009, in addition to the expected arrival of many foreign residents, exhibitors and investors are upbeat about this year's event. The exhibition's association with the Real Estate Regulatory Agency (RERA) and the Dubai Land Department (DLD) has also contributed to the high level of confidence of investors at the show.

As the event's Strategic Partner, RERA has set up a special pavilion within the venue - the 'RERA Consultancy Zone', where representatives from the agency are answering the inquiries of commercial and residential investors and specialised visitors from the property industry. A dedicated pavilion has also been assigned to banks and financial institutions to aid investors seeking financial assistance.

Speaking at the inauguration, H.H. Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Maktoum expressed optimism over Dubai's property market growth. 'Dubai will be the fastest city to recover from the impact of the ongoing credit crunch, and the emirate's real estate sector will once again witness a period of long term boom. However, developers need to remain focused on their goal of continuing with the projects that they have already started and ensure that these projects are delivered on time.
Developers who are registered with Rera ca
n be assured of total support from Dubai Land Department. The impressive participation of players at the 'International Property Show - Dubai 2009' underlines the high confidence in the UAE's property sector.'

[charlie big potatoes]

Thanks for the link, interesting stuff. :cheers:


Presuimng that you had a choice of towers in basicaly the same locaion, providing basicaly the same facilities.

Out of interest, would you rather give a builder £22k to spend on interior finishes that guarateed good quality, but no choice of design, asthetics, coulors, specification etc.

Or would you rather pay the builder £22k less for the shell, and kit it out exactly to your own tastes, needs and choices?

So we are talking about IB and TT yeah! They are BASICALLY in the same area but the view or possible lack of it is the deciding factor for me. Both as shells I would pay 22k more to live in IB than TT. Again I would pay 22k more in TP for a full marina view than a rear JBR view.

[High Times]

Thats all very well but doesnt answer my question. Why mention views to cloud the issue. This specific discussion is about cost/quality of fittings not views.

I am simply asking if you would prefer to let a builder charge you more for his choice of furnishings or charge you less and you choose your own ?

Simple question ?

[charlie big potatoes]

Thats all very well but doesnt answer my question. Why mention views to cloud the issue. This specific discussion is about cost/quality of fittings not views.

I am simply asking if you would prefer to let a builder charge you more for his choice of furnishings or charge you less and you choose your own ?

Simple question ?

Less and choose my own.

[charlie big potatoes]

HT. Both TT AND IB threads opened mid 2005. Can you honestly say you you are happier with TT? Few things you would get for you apples for apples albiet 22k dearer. A completed appt with probably at least 2 years rental income assuming TT finishes, superior interiors with no disruption internally to get a decent finish and oh, the view that you love to avoid. Sorry mate, I know where the clever money would be.

[mackie1964]

Anyone knows where Laura Ashley in Dubai is? We might as well talk about curtains :dunno:

[Morrismarina]

I wouldn't go with curtains Mackie. They're a right bugger to get cleaned. I think some nice blinds would be better. Should I order these in white to match the fridge/freezer and washer or perhaps go for a darker shade to match the floor tiles ?? A sales guy at SP told me a lighter colour will make my one bed look much bigger, says it will then look like a two bed, but I'm not sure whether to trust them as they've lied to me before. They told me I get a cat with my apartment when I move in, but I don't believe them. I really can't make my mind up and I'm going to ring Giles Beswick in the morning to see what he suggests.

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i42.tinypic.com/296ep1g.jpg

[yecabel]

great pic steve!
high times and charlie, would you mind to continue your 1-2-1 via private messages?

[Mistermark]

Thats all very well but doesnt answer my question. Why mention views to cloud the issue. This specific discussion is about cost/quality of fittings not views.

I am simply asking if you would prefer to let a builder charge you more for his choice of furnishings or charge you less and you choose your own ?

Simple question ?

I would prefer to pay a low price for basic fittings then upgrade them if needs be. This is because standard stuff is OK for a buy to let and for my own use I'd rather choose.

However, I don't want to pay a premium price for good fittings then receive cheapo stuff when I take deliver. Hence some people's concern about the fit-out of the show unit.

[High Times]

high times and charlie, would you mind to continue your 1-2-1 via private messages?

It is an open discussion and all are welcome to add to the merits being discussed. If you dont like it dont read it.


HT. Both TT AND IB threads opened mid 2005. Can you honestly say you you are happier with TT? Few things you would get for you apples for apples albiet 22k dearer. A completed appt with probably at least 2 years rental income assuming TT finishes, superior interiors with no disruption internally to get a decent finish and oh, the view that you love to avoid. Sorry mate, I know where the clever money would be.

For me i would rather the Torch over Iris Blue. Heres why.

I didnt invest until 2007 so wasnt sat looking at diggers for 2 years.
I transfered the bulk of my Sterling to Dirham at AED7.2 = £1 which in turn has an impact on the psf cost of the unit by up to 25% dependening on when you bought or paid Sterling/Dirham.
I also negotiated a great discount as SP were despreate to sell the last few 3 beds.
I wanted to invest in a supertall tower as in 80 fl + as i found it to be an exiting project, not just another tower in amoungst 200 others in the Marina.
I have bought off plan in the UK before and always budgeted to replace the fittings of my unit in my calcs, (or at least negotiated an upgrade with the builder, who in the UK are more willing to oblige).
The views you mention for me will be nothing short of spectacular from my Torch unit. Looking out over the Arabian Gulf watching the sunset from my balcony over the top of Sheikh Mohammeds Hotel and Emirates Crown. Thats as a minimum.
If I'm lucky then due to the current financial climate what ends up on the big plot in front will be around 50 floors in my opinion, as there quite simply is not the demand for speculative property in Dubai and wont be for at least another 5 years by which time something else will have been built, as the Marina will be getting ever closer to completion. Once the idiots in charge realise that they have to start finishing projects for Dubai to survive, instead of allow it to be a building site forever. (I'm sure a well paid committee of advisors will recomend this after a few million Dirham gets spent on research)

If this is the case then I will have arguably the best views in the whole of the Marina. As the Torch will be the only supertower offering views down the whole length of the Marina out towards Jebel Ali and eventually Nakheels massive new Harbour & Tower development. :eek:

If this is how things turn out in 3-5 years then a new kitchen and bathroom will be small change in the big equation.

I am always trying to look at the big picture and whilst it's tempting to get upset about breakfast bars and fuseboxes they are all minor things to me.

I'm not saying that your wrong and I'm right, Im just giving you my opinion on how I think things will turn out.

Only time will tell. :cheers:

[High Times]

I would prefer to pay a low price for basic fittings then upgrade them if needs be. This is because standard stuff is OK for a buy to let and for my own use I'd rather choose.

However, I don't want to pay a premium price for good fittings then receive cheapo stuff when I take deliver. Hence some people's concern about the fit-out of the show unit.

I agree with this and unfortunatley this is what happens when we deal with a sales company that dont know how to deliver what was prommissed.

[Beppe786]

^^ just hope they dont build anything over 50 floors.. but its more than likely as every buiding on that side is tall..

[High Times]

^^ just hope they dont build anything over 50 floors.. but its more than likely as every buiding on that side is tall.. AND EMPTY.

Did they pour another floor last night.I know Sundays used to be the day they did this. It would be great to get past the next mechanical floor by the end of march which woul dleave only around 25 or so floors to go making Sept 2009 achievable to top out the tower.

[THEPOINT]

AND EMPTY.

Did they pour another floor last night.I know Sundays used to be the day they did this. It would be great to get past the next mechanical floor by the end of march which would leave only around 25 or so floors to go making Sept 2009 achievable to top out the tower.
Did 54 I think i'll buzz my mates for a pic

[Beppe786]

5 Star Oasis beach Tower Hotel

http://i40.tinypic.com/289hgg6.jpg

[Rider]

^^

Nice jugs

[Saggy_Toad]

Thats more like it!! Is that the finish from the developer.....surely not????

[Rider]

Saggy must have sensed the 'nice jugs' comment :banana:

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2j2tczo.jpg

[shaffar]

I think the fridge/freezer will be free standing to the left of the front door. Check the floorplan below.

http://i41.tinypic.com/209m3vp.jpg


Just spoke to SP to why my contract has 963.4 sq ft as the overall size while they now claim it as 822.67sqft on their website, they said it was a mistake & that 963.4 was the correct size.
But multiplying all the figures on the 1 bed they add up to 825.05 sq ft & that's what the website says.
Any1 know whats going on?

[Dubai_Steve]

perhaps 963 is sq ft including interior walls, cupboard space and balcony etc? :dunno:

[jeffers]

perhaps 963 is sq ft including interior walls, cupboard space and balcony etc? :dunno:

We were sold these props using the NET area, not Gross like others use to make their properties sound bigger. Shaffar, are you sure you have not bought a Type C one bed as they are 963.37 sq ft ?? The posted floor plan is a type A one bed.

[shaffar]

mine is a sea facing Type A, OK I'm meant to have a view looking through the gap on the the right side of the Princess

& the free standing fridge will have to be very shallow to go up against the support breast, not shown in the original layout

[jeetha]

^^I make it 826.20 sq ft

[ZARO786]

My contracts for type 1A (Media city/Sea View) states 89.5 sqm NET. This works out be be approx: 984sq ft.NET - if my calculations are correct.


If the size of our apt is under than what is stated on our contracts then according to RERA rules and regs , select will have to offer us compensation. However, if the size of our apts is over the we do not have to pay the diff to the developers. These are RERA rules.

If anyone is interested in contacting the CEO of RERA - "Marwan Bin Ghalita" then drop me a line. I had direct communication from him regarding LAW 13 well before it was brought to the atten of select gp.

[Tosh]

Please advise how you get to 984 sq ft?

[Morrismarina]

mine is a sea facing Type A, OK I'm meant to have a view looking through the gap on the the right side of the Princess

& the free standing fridge will have to be very shallow to go up against the support breast, not shown in the original layout

If you unit is Sea facing floor 6-28 then it is a Type B (units 10 & 11) as per this diagram which was once on the SP website. Your fridge/freezer looks like it will be in the far left hand corner of the kitchen just to the left of the cooker.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2d1s2e9.gif

[shaffar]

Hold on, my apartment number ends with 02, meaning its A Type, is that right?

& all the plans I have for it have this open plan kitchen design

[Morrismarina]

Hold on, my apartment number ends with 02, meaning its A Type, is that right?

& all the plans I have for it have this open plan kitchen design

Yes it is a Type A then - the larger one bed. Media City facing. I have an 02 as well.

[shaffar]

Well it no longer the larger 1 bed, multiply the other 1 bed dimensions & its definitely bigger, I think it has more depth

[shaffar]

Whats really important is has anyone sent off a response to Torch Select objecting/rejecting the FM claim.
If they have FM then any compensation because of size difference at a later date is useless, they will simple hold a gun to your head with the buy back clause

[Morrismarina]

Well it no longer the larger 1 bed my good friend, multiply the other 1 bed dimensions & its definitely bigger, I think it has more depth

All the one beds were originally all the same size. Then following the redesign the Marina and Media City facing units (that's the 01, 02, 06, 07 units) acquired an ensuite bathroom by using the area in the lobby. Hence they are bigger than the others. The plan clearly shows your 02 unit bigger than a 10 or 11.

[shaffar]

If you unit is Sea facing floor 6-28 then it is a Type B (units 10 & 11) as per this diagram which was once on the SP website. Your fridge/freezer looks like it will be in the far left hand corner of the kitchen just to the left of the cooker.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2d1s2e9.gif

If you look at the corridor areas, one is wider that the other, affecting the over all depth of 01,02.07,08 along the whole length

[Dubai_Steve]

The larger 1 beds have a really nice floor plan now. I probably prefer them to the Type A 2 beds as they have a kitchen rather than a kitchen area.

If you got upgraded to the large 1 bed I would be very happy if I were you.

The higher Type B 2 beds however are the best 2 beds as they are larger, have a laundry area, main bathroom with separate shower and bath, larger storage cupboards and a proper kitchen.

[Morrismarina]

If you look at the corridor areas, one is wider that the other, affecting the over all depth of 01,02.07,08 along the whole length

No they are exactly the same, it's your eyes, put a ruler over the plan and measure them. :nuts:

[mackie1964]

http://www.selectproperty.com/floorplans/floorplans/torch1beda.pdf

http://www.selectproperty.com/floorplans/floorplans/torch1b.pdf

http://www.selectproperty.com/floorplans/floorplans/torch1c.pdf

http://www.selectproperty.com/floorplans/floorplans/torch2a.pdf

http://www.selectproperty.com/floorplans/floorplans/torch2b.pdf

Select......ive, I tought I had this protected :lol:

[shaffar]

I got the little 1s ruler out & your right:lol:


does that mean the interior dimensions given by SP are wrong, because they don't add up

[True Blue]

We were sold these props using the NET area, not Gross like others use to make their properties sound bigger. Shaffar, are you sure you have not bought a Type C one bed as they are 963.37 sq ft ?? The posted floor plan is a type A one bed.

I calculated the areas using the gross area method and still come short of the areas given on the plan.

Sounds like SP telling you what you want to hear and not what is the truth.

[Dubai_Steve]

Maybe you are using one of those Scottish calculators? :dunno:

[shaffar]

I calculated the areas using the gross area method and still come short of the areas given on the plan.

Sounds like SP telling you what you want to hear and not what is the truth.


If your are right then it's one deception after another, WHY people do you think they won't use the FM buyback clause if we agree it took place. email below dated 9/7/07




Dear Mr



Further to our conversation earlier today, I would like to confirm that the delays which have occurred between the start of the build and now do not fall within the definition of a force majeure.



As long as you have complied with your side of the agreement I can confirm that you will be entitled to penalty payments from 31st December 2008. Under clause 15.1 of your contract these payments are payable until the date when your property is certified complete.



The payments are calculated daily, each day that completion is late, at a rate of 1% above the London Interbank Offer Rate on any money you have paid towards the purchase price up to that point.



Clause 15.3 in your Sale and Purchase agreement is in all clients Sale and Purchase agreement’s for the Torch.



Kind Regards





Select Property Group Ltd

Lois Brough
Account Manage

[True Blue]

Maybe you are using one of those Scottish calculators? :dunno:

You get one free when you open a bank account with HBOS or RBS. Only does calculations in Billions. :)

[Naz UK]

HBOS? That rings a bell...

[mskhan]

My 2 bedroom apartment is a type B - T2403. With the changes made to the original design and more floors added whould I be right in assuming that T2403 will be on floor 32? My assumption is that the 2 bedroom type B apartments start on floor 31.

[Samantha Baker]

I'm new on here and have read the last few pages. Has anyone had any success on challenging SP on the FM issue?

[talks]

Hi all,Iam all new to this forum also.After reading thousands of posts over the last few days I found you all funny and a great help.


The letter from P.Brady on 30thJan I only found out about from this forum as I work away from home.So thanks for everyones input.

I got the letter faxed to me and spoke to SP about the FM claims.They told me it's all in the contract and if I wished I could get my money all back by sending of a letter of 20 day notice.

Well thats just what I did!

I use another forum which discussed everything about Dubai,(visa's,new laws,rents,everything)and never seen anything about the torch,which I thought was great an beleived the development was coming along great also.
Never wanted to see anything either as posts would mainly be tip offs about defaulter,developers going bust running off with clients money etc.


After reading through the posts here helped me make my mind up as some where getting organised to met and claim higher compo deals etc.I took fright that some could harm the development and encourage other to default leaving the development bust and perhaps getting nothing.


If I hadn't of seen this thread I would not have knew all of this.

Things have calmed since I see,veiws changed,tell me your views.

Don't know If I have done the right thing or not..

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ Hi talks, let us know if you get your money back. I imagine most will also be doing the same before long unless there is payment recheduling etc. Especially if the pound continues to drop. I hope that does not cause a problem for Select. I imagine they will try to sell before paying you, if they can.

[talks]

^^ Hi talks, let us know if you get your money back. I imagine most will also be doing the same before long unless there is payment recheduling etc. Especially if the pound continues to drop. I hope that does not cause a problem for Select. I imagine they will try to sell before paying you, if they can.




Payment recheduling would't help me as I've only 10% to pay,but what I did'nt like was when I first asked about resale,1%/1% fees would have left me getting less that what I paid and that even with the strenght of the pound working in my favour.

[Dubai_Steve]

how low did they suggest that you sell for then if 2% fees and 30% currency in your favour prevented you making a profit?

[talks]

how low did they suggest that you sell for then if 2% fees and 30% currency in your favour prevented you making a profit?



They made no effort to get me to resell.Numbers where quoted at todays prices per/sq ft compared to when purchased and they told me I needed to wait for completion for a good profit.Sq/ft prices where rushed out to me over the phone,and a statement about todays market being slow.

Also they said they had many resales by defaulters that they where all accepting loses on money paid.I think they mean LPP.

I wonder what their resale prices advertised are.Has the market dropped by over 30% on the development.

[shaffar]

I'm new on here and have read the last few pages. Has anyone had any success on challenging SP on the FM issue?

Start by responding to the letter you received by email/registered mail, stating that you object to their claim to FM. I guess that will buy you more time. My brother has been assigned in Dubai for the last 3 years & has started with approaching a solicitor in Dubai to see if Torch select had any obligation to be disclosing the delays they are now claiming.

If you go and ask SP now if FM has happened, they say "we are informed by TS that it did", so when they sent out emails claiming no FM took place back in 06,07(has anyone got 08), who was advising them then. Some one has a case to answer. & stop this we can't harm SP comments, no want to harm them, they are the ones who are harming us

Would every investor be happy if SP/TS removed the buy-back(15.3) clause in any agreement

Have sent a dozen PMs to investors who might like to pursue this, SP has shown that they do issue out differing contracts ( inter bank rate & differing completion dates), then they will settle and farther amend the contract of those who take it farther.

[Naz UK]

Also, start by listing, in quite some detail, the points you intend to make in your reply on a widely-read internet forum that the developer/sales agent visits frequently, so that they - the developer/sales agent can pre-empt your letter with carefully pre-planned responses. That usually solves individual cases of a legal dimension quite quickly.

:ohno:

[mskhan]

This article should be of interest to all members of this forum

By Saifur Rahman, Business Editor
Published: February 18, 2009, 22:53


Dubai: Dubai's property regulator, the Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) will soon "name and shame" developers who fail to live up to promised delivery schedules and quality assurances as it endeavours to clean up the sector to facilitate investment, a top official said.

Marwan Bin Galita, Rera chief executive, told property developers at a briefing on Tuesday evening that they would be allowed to retain 30 per cent of the value of the property (as per the contract) if investors sought to pull out of projects - a move aimed at protecting and helping developers overcome the current slump.

"However, we'll be flexible. Exceptions could be made if the investor is unable to continue to pay due to some genuine reasons, such as loss of pay, job loss - which we will have to consider," Bin Galita told the gathering.

"These will have to be approved by Rera and will be handled case-by-case."

Rera has been particularly active in recent months as it strives to restore investor confidence. It may be recalled that the regulator had, on Tuesday, issued a circular outlining the policies that would govern service charges in the context of freehold properties.

Bin Galita also told the meeting, organised by Badr Al Islami - the Islamic banking arm of Mashreq - that discussions on the issue of visas linked to freehold ownership of properties were in the final stages and an announcement to this effect would be made soon.

Freehold visas - as they have been popularly referred to - have remained a hot topic among foreign investors.

Dubai's master developers - Emaar, Nakheel and Dubai Porperties - had been facilitating freehold visas for property buyers till last year when the government stepped in after noticing that some developers had begun exploiting potential buyers.

The UAE federal government has now finalised a six-month freehold visa for investors - which will be announced in a few weeks time.

Chronic delays and complaints of serious construction defects in some projects have also not escaped Rera's attention.

"We feel that these measures are much needed to boost confidence and dispel negative sentiment from the market," Osman Valli, chief executive of Aristocrat Star Investments, told Gulf News.

"We are also very pleased that Rera has been in talks with the master developers and certain proposals are in the pipelines looking at ways to assist customers. More so, there were indications of a real estate committee being formed by professionals from within this sector serving as a platform for consultation prior to issuing of new regulations and guidelines."

Should investors be compensated for any project delays? Should heavier penalties be given to developers who fail to deliver on time?

[shaffar]

Also, start by listing, in quite some detail, the points you intend to make in your reply on a widely-read internet forum that the developer/sales agent visits frequently, so that they - the developer/sales agent can pre-empt your letter with carefully pre-planned responses. That usually solves individual cases of a legal dimension quite quickly.

:ohno:


sorry If you think so, I don't think they can preempt facts. Got a few helpful PM, will try their suggestion first

[Samantha Baker]

Talks - so even though they are claiming FM, they are saying you can get your money back now on 20 days notice? In my contract it says that on 31 Dec 08 we can terminate contract unless due to FM. On 30 June 09, even if due to FM, either side can terminate. So I thought I'd have to wait until June.

I'm not 100% sure at the moment that I want to terminate. Don't want to lose out on a lot more profit further on down the line. But sure would make life easier and less stressful at the moment. :)

[THEPOINT]

Talks - so even though they are claiming FM, they are saying you can get your money back now on 20 days notice? In my contract it says that on 31 Dec 08 we can terminate contract unless due to FM. On 30 June 09, even if due to FM, either side can terminate. So I thought I'd have to wait until June.

I'm not 100% sure at the moment that I want to terminate. Don't want to lose out on a lot more profit further on down the line. But sure would make life easier and less stressful at the moment.
You,ve waited so long don't give up now ? long term it wll be good

[talks]

Talks - so even though they are claiming FM, they are saying you can get your money back now on 20 days notice? In my contract it says that on 31 Dec 08 we can terminate contract unless due to FM. On 30 June 09, even if due to FM, either side can terminate. So I thought I'd have to wait until June.

I'm not 100% sure at the moment that I want to terminate. Don't want to lose out on a lot more profit further on down the line. But sure would make life easier and less stressful at the moment. :)



Hi Samantha,

Article 15 Default


15.1 If the Buyer has fulfiled all his obligations under the terms of this Agreement and the Seller is unable to give possession and occupation of the Property by the 30thJune 2008,and this remains the case for at least a period of six(6) months thereafter then the Seller shall(unless the delay is due to Force Majeure in which case the provisions of clause 15.3 shall apply)pay Penalties to the Buyer on all the payments made by the Buyer towards the Purchase Price for the period from 31th December 2008,until the date of possession and occupation is offered to the Buyer.


Brief....enclosure in ( ) relates only to the paiding of Penalties.

[Dubai_Steve]

You are right talks, full refund is now available to anyone. Do you think this will put the project in jeopardy?

[High Times]

I dont think they would offer it if that was the case.

[reillycorblimey]

You are right talks, full refund is now available to anyone. Do you think this will put the project in jeopardy?

I requested hand back about 2 weeks ago and was told had to wait until after june 31st as per contract

[Dubai_Steve]

...

[talks]

You are right talks, full refund is now available to anyone. Do you think this will put the project in jeopardy?



This is the main reason I sent of my 20 day notice quickly.Can SP afford to return say,60 people their money back.Thats over 60millon Aed.Could that effect all the develpoments they have.New Escrow Laws and Payment in line with Construction Laws how long can a Private Company hold out.

The last thing I wanted to do was ask for my money back.Iam not worried about delays,interest etc,but better safe that sorry.

Some posts on this thread had a great influence on my descision.Although everyone seems calmer now.

What has happened that everyone seems more content at the moment?

[talks]

I requested hand back about 2 weeks ago and was told had to wait until after june 31st as per contract



I send my notice by email to Paul Brady and got a return email confirming and that my notice was being dealt with.

Who knows perhaps being dealt with may be a letter stating same as,although a telephone call to SP no one stated anything different.

[reillycorblimey]

I send my notice by email to Paul Brady and got a return email confirming and that my notice was being dealt with.

Who knows perhaps being dealt with may be a letter stating same as,although a telephone call to SP no one stated anything different.

It was paul brady that replied to myself, stating that yes i could hand back however couldn't proceed until after june 31st.

[Dubai_Steve]

Appears that quite a high percentage of people are intending to hand back.

What is the main reason for you contemplating terminating? inablity to pay until occupation or lack of funds. If you can afford to complete rental return should be > 10% so worth keeping regardless of the market price.

[Samantha Baker]

^^
I don't really want to terminate. But if it's delayed until end of 2010 or longer I'm not sure I can afford to make repayments. Plus with all the uncertainty in the market at the moment - what if we can't find tenants, can't sell, etc. I'd like to go over and see it though before I make a decision - but from the photos, I hate the kitchens!!:ohno:

[talks]

Appears that quite a high percentage of people are intending to hand back.

What is the main reason for you contemplating terminating? inablity to pay until occupation or lack of funds. If you can afford to complete rental return should be > 10% so worth keeping regardless of the market price.




I've got a final payment to make of 10% on completion.

So many defaulters in the market at present,I would be worried about how they could effect the development.So many stories about developers taking off with money etc......


If it turns out that they refuse to return the payments made until after June I'll just have to sit and wait.If building continues well up to then maybe my views will have changed by then.

If they refuse to return payments before June(even if they have a new buyer for the app)would it make sense to cancel the 20 day notice until closer the time?

[Joannides]

what concerns me if the contradictory message you get from them depending on who you talk to. i was told in writing i could get all my money (paid) back now.

[talks]

what concerns me if the contradictory message you get from them depending on who you talk to. i was told in writing i could get all my money (paid) back now.



Hi Joannides,thanks for your great pictures.

May I ask your position.Waiting to the finish or sending 20 day notice?

[reillycorblimey]

Appears that quite a high percentage of people are intending to hand back.

What is the main reason for you contemplating terminating? inablity to pay until occupation or lack of funds. If you can afford to complete rental return should be > 10% so worth keeping regardless of the market price.

i dont want to hand back, however i didnnt budget for the delays, stupid i know but this is my first off plan purchase.
payment holiday is my prefered option, if they say yes to that then i will carry on, if not, i will not be able to keep up payments after june, and who knows it could be delayed even longer and situation will only worsen i am a 2 bed LPP

[Dubai_Steve]

^^
I'd like to go over and see it though before I make a decision - but from the photos, I hate the kitchens!!:ohno:

Mackie is good at changing kitchens. He will help you out. :naughty:

[Samantha Baker]

^^
I'm so disappointed with SP though. They promised luxury hi-spec kitchens and appliances and they're giving us cheap rubbish. We shouldn't have to move into new, supposedly "luxury, top quality" apartments and replace the kitchens and bathrooms straight away. They lied to us.
:gaah:

[Joannides]

Hi Joannides,thanks for your great pictures.

May I ask your position.Waiting to the finish or sending 20 day notice?

i will PM you.

[yecabel]

why cant i read the last page?

[dirtyharry1]

You should not worry about the kitchen, they install the usual shit they install everywhere in Dubai - except Emaar and Trident, they install better ones. Even on the so called "luxurious palm" in a 19 Mio. Signature villa there is total srap kitchen installed.

Your tenants will not take care, they are used to have that scrap here in Dubai.

Better have an eye on the completion of the development...

[Morrismarina]

I've got a final payment to make of 10% on completion.

So many defaulters in the market at present,I would be worried about how they could effect the development.So many stories about developers taking off with money etc......


If it turns out that they refuse to return the payments made until after June I'll just have to sit and wait.If building continues well up to then maybe my views will have changed by then.

If they refuse to return payments before June(even if they have a new buyer for the app)would it make sense to cancel the 20 day notice until closer the time?

I can understand why some people are worried and want their money back. I reckon for some, including myself, its the concern that when built will we be able to get tenants or even be able to sell the unit. It's a comforting move to get your money back now in case you're in this position later. I bought my TT unit to rent out long term, if I can't do this then I'll have no income to fund the LLPP payments on my Bay Central unit. I'll be stuffed. Now this is starting to be a big worry for me now.
According to newspaper articles and posts on SSC things in Dubai are getting quite bad now, but I'm not sure whether this is the usual Dubai bashing by western journalists who've always seemed keen to bring the emirate down even before the credit crunch and things were booming. Or "bottom feeder" investors just talking the market down so they can get a bargain. Anybody really know what is going on in Dubai ??
Having your money back and sleeping well at night is an attractive option, the World has changed since September....... and I wouldn't criticise anybody for wanting to do this now.
What concerns me is if the 20 day notice is given to the developer, what guarantee is there of actually getting your cash back ?? Could they simply keeping promising to pay for ever and a day and the only redress is a Court case. Even winning in Court is no use whatsoever if SG haven't got the funds to pay you back. By which time you've given away tenure over your apartment, you don't even have it any more as it's been sold to somebody else. So you've got no refund and no apartment !! Is it better to simply stick it out then, hold onto your unit which will shortly be registered at the Land Registry - at least you'll have some bricks and mortar to hang on to. If SG do actually pay the refund then fine, but what if they don't ??
Also are you sure Talks that your 20 day notice can be rescinded just by you requesting to reverse it ?? What if SG refuse to accept the reinstatement of your unit ?? And you haven't got your cash back ?? Is it safer to wait until your unit has been registered at the Land Registry before giving your 20 day notice ??
If the rental market does take a turn for the worse would we be protected to some degree as we're in the Marina ?? Rents may drop but the Marina location may well become more desirable for those who are further out and may be attracted by say one beds at 80K and two beds at 120K especially with the Metro up an running.
I really don't know how to call the rental market in the Marina for the future, any body have any views, especially some of you living in Dubai ??
What about selling, would a post hand-over unit with full occupancy available be worth more than handing back to SG now. If SG are genuinely happy to refund your purchase money and follow this through, then why ?? Do they see buying units back as a lucrative move with values higher at hand-over ??
Oh dear.......can somebody lend me a crystyal ball please. :lol:

[True Blue]

^^You can borrow my crystal ball, it has not let me down yet.:)

Maybe people want their money back for another reason than being worried about Select being unstable. Maybe they are seeing opportunities to switch to other developers at no extra cost.

Opportunities are coming up all over the marina. I think you could swap out for a Park Island apartment,for example, at no extra cost be able to move in in a year and benefit from a nicer kitchen and better communal facilities.:dunno:

Why would this not be an attractive proposition? Is it because everyone owes some loyalty to SP for being such a great and trustworthy company.

[Morrismarina]

Could I get a one bed in PI for 750,000 ??

Other than doing down SP as usual, which is obligatory content from you on this thread as always...........do you have any thoughts on the general sales/rental future in the Marina as per the questions I've raised ?? If so can you leave out all the positive spin about The Jewels and Dorrabay as we can leave that for another day.........sorry just pre-empting you TB. :lol:

No seriously I do value you opinion as an owener/regular visitor to the Marina with extensive knowledge of the area. :)

[True Blue]

^^They are doing themselves down.

Anything in the marina will be rentable, at what price point is the depressing question. If you can rent a 1 bed in TT for 50,000AED/annum then people would move from IC to the marina.

[Morrismarina]

^^They are doing themselves down.

Anything in the marina will be rentable, at what price point is the depressing question. If you can rent a 1 bed in TT for 50,000AED/annum then people would move from IC to the marina.

Very helpful.......thanks.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ You can get a 1 bed in the point for about 950,000, but I found this 865 sq ft ready to rent 1 bed in lake view tower for 550,000 (4th floor road view).

http://www.bhomes.com/thumbs/75-BetterHomes-35F(2)_640x480//uf/1002/unit/248426/502537_Image.jpg

http://www.bhomes.com/thumbs/75-BetterHomes-35F(2)_640x480//uf/1002/unit/248426/502547_Image.jpg

Seems like an amazing low price. I could even give back my 2 bed in TT which is on the LPP with 10 years left to pay and buy this outright with 200,000 change to buy a new top of the range mercedes and rent the apartment for £15,000 per year income.

[True Blue]

Thanks Steve that has really cheered me up :cry:

So what incentive does the new landlord have for leaving it empty by asking for 95,000/annum when he can get 65000/annum and make more than 10% on his investment. There are no banks offering those returns.

[Morrismarina]

^^ Seems far to low a price to be true....... Looks a nice unit though.

[True Blue]

Could I get a one bed in PI for 750,000 ??

Other than doing down SP as usual, which is obligatory content from you on this thread as always...........

Found these for you;:)

Dubai Marina, Park Island-Blakely, Mid floor, 1 B/R, Apt-Sea view, Size 875. Price Offers in Excess of AED 900,000/- all inclusive. Agent Jamie Direct Line: 307. +97150-5089962. Call Now! ALLSOPP & ALLSOPP (Ready - Homes Directory) - A Name You Can Trust. 160b, Al Wásl Road, Villa No. 7, Street 2d, Community 333, Jumeirá, Dubai, U.A.E. P.O. Box: 55720. Tel.: +9714-3444880 | Fax: +9714-3444881 | Email: info@allsoppandallsopp.com | Website: www.allsoppandallsopp.com

Dubai Marina, Park Island Sanibel, 1 BR, Area: 709. Price: AED 950K. Call Ali 050-5578314. VENTURE HORIZON REAL ESTATE – Let Us Guide You! Tel: +9714-3251757 / Fax: +9714-3251808 / Email: info@ventureh.com


I'm sure if you give it time for the refund to come through, you will be able to pick and choose.

[Morrismarina]

So that proves I can't get a refund and buy a one bed in PI then. :ohno:

These are 900k and 950k and as I've said my refund would be 750,000. I don't fancy putting 200k extra into it (that's £38k on today's rate). Smaller units as well as my TT one bed is 963 sq ft.

That Lake View unit is a con......just to get you to phone the agent.......why would it be nearly half the price of a PI apartment ??

[THEPOINT]

^^ You can get a 1 bed in the point for about 950,000, but I found this 865 sq ft ready to rent 1 bed in lake view tower for 550,000 (4th floor road view).

http://www.bhomes.com/thumbs/75-BetterHomes-35F(2)_640x480//uf/1002/unit/248426/502537_Image.jpg

http://www.bhomes.com/thumbs/75-BetterHomes-35F(2)_640x480//uf/1002/unit/248426/502547_Image.jpg

Seems like an amazing low price. I could even give back my 2 bed in TT which is on the LPP with 10 years left to pay and buy this outright with 200,000 change to buy a new top of the range mercedes and rent the apartment for £15,000 per year income.
I hope you bought it Steve !!

[True Blue]

So that proves I can't get a refund and buy a one bed in PI then. :ohno:

These are 900k and 950k and as I've said my refund would be 750,000. I don't fancy putting 200k extra into it (that's £38k on today's rate). Smaller units as well as my TT one bed is 963 sq ft.

That Lake View unit is a con......just to get you to phone the agent.......why would it be nearly half the price of a PI apartment ??

Morris, you are out of touch with reality, those are geniune asking prices, people with ready money make lower offers and see how cheap they can get it for.

Have you been on a car showroom recently, once the salesman workout you are a cash buyer the prices drop below the floor, that is the climate we live in right now.

Wake up and smell the coffee!!!

[Morrismarina]

No Steve wouldn't buy it.........the fridge/freezer is white. :lol:

[Morrismarina]

Morris, you are out of touch with reality, those are asking prices people with money make low offers and see how cheap they can get it for.

Have you been on a car showroom recently, once the salesman workout you are a cash buyer the prices drop below the floor, that is the climate we live in right now.


So you reckon they'll drop as low as 750k for cash ??

And the Lake View seller would accept less than 550,000 ??

[True Blue]

So you reckon they'll drop as low as 750k for cash ??

And the Lake View seller would accept less than 550,000 ??

If you are the only offer, why not?

[Select_Property]

Since communicating a revised forecast of milestones in completing the Torch, the casting of the residential floors up to level 55 has gone more or less according to schedule.
The next floor to be cast will be the double-height service floor, and due to the change in plate size this was always expected to much longer than the previous floors which were being achieved in roughly 6 days. Once the tower rises above this service floor in late March we are expecting to see progress return to one floor every 5-6 days. Currently the day shift averages around 1000 workers on The Torch, and with external cladding and internal fitting continuing as planned we hope that purchasers will be getting some assurance now that the developer is fully committed to delivering the project in the shortest sensible time frame from here on in.

[Dubai_Steve]

No Steve wouldn't buy it.........the fridge/freezer is white. :lol:

Yes it put me off buying, so I will stick with the Torch, especially now it will grow 1 floor every 6 days from April and I can use my compensation for 3 year late delivery as a down payment to buy a silver fridge to replace the Torch one.

[Mistermark]

Talks - so even though they are claiming FM, they are saying you can get your money back now on 20 days notice? In my contract it says that on 31 Dec 08 we can terminate contract unless due to FM. On 30 June 09, even if due to FM, either side can terminate. So I thought I'd have to wait until June.

I'm not 100% sure at the moment that I want to terminate. Don't want to lose out on a lot more profit further on down the line. But sure would make life easier and less stressful at the moment. :)

Personally, I think the best compromise is to terminate now if they'll allow it or June if they insist on the FM smokescreen, then sue for loss of capital appreciation and rent.

[Mistermark]

i dont want to hand back, however i didnnt budget for the delays, stupid i know but this is my first off plan purchase.
payment holiday is my prefered option, if they say yes to that then i will carry on, if not, i will not be able to keep up payments after june, and who knows it could be delayed even longer and situation will only worsen i am a 2 bed LPP

When the developer letter was sent out, I responded by making a proposal to the developer as an alternative to cancellation. I decided to keep the content of it confidential in case they accepted my offer, on the basis that part of the value to them is that doing individual deals avoids the need for publicity and hence having to offer it on a blanket basis - and we may each value different things.

Today I received a reply from Paul Brady declining my offer. So now I feel able to put it into the public domain. My proposal was that I would agree to waive my claim against the developer for the loss of rental income from the contractual completion date of 31/06/08 plus six months' leeway until actual completion, up to a maximum of two years, if they waived the LPP instalments for the same period.

I was buying three two-beds on high floors so I'd say, even in the current climate, the rent would be at least AED 600k/yr. The LPP instalments are 290k/yr. So I was offering them a concession of up to AED 600k. They turned it down.

Of course, my claim for the lost rental income depends on being able to prove they're in breach of clause 9.3 - failure to use reasonable endeavours to deliver the project on time. Helpfully, their own letter provides ample evidence of their failings in this regard, and the lengthy delays to obtain the appropriate permissions, the change in design and master contractor, the reconfiguration of the floors and last summer's c**k up are all well documented on this floor, so I don't have any doubts about my ability to prove their breach. However, I'm sadly not in a position to pay out AED 580k in the next two years on the LPP against no rental income, when there should have been around AED 1,200k of rent in the same period, so my plan now is to return them on the first day they'll allow me to do so, and spend up to the total value of the returned funds on the subsequent litigation.

I feel very sad, on a personal level, that my association with the project will have to end either in the next couple of weeks or in June, depending on how they play things, but the fact is that if the developer was (a) sufficiently solvent to be able to allow a grace period or (b) honest enough not to be rewriting history to create the force majeure smokescreen, I might have been more inclined to consider sacrifices elsewhere to stick with them.

Having now decided to hand in my chips on this project I am interested in a London meeting with anyone else who wants to go down the same route. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not interested in a mutual sympathy exercise, just in talking to people who are prepared to put money into the kitty to go after the developer for damages consequent to a breach of clause 9.3.

[Joannides]

Since communicating a revised forecast of milestones in completing the Torch, the casting of the residential floors up to level 55 has gone more or less according to schedule.
The next floor to be cast will be the double-height service floor, and due to the change in plate size this was always expected to much longer than the previous floors which were being achieved in roughly 6 days. Once the tower rises above this service floor in late March we are expecting to see progress return to one floor every 5-6 days. Currently the day shift averages around 1000 workers on The Torch, and with external cladding and internal fitting continuing as planned we hope that purchasers will be getting some assurance now that the developer is fully committed to delivering the project in the shortest sensible time frame from here on in.


Giles, in the interest of transparency, can you please answer the questions below to the best of your knowledge? Thank you

- How many workers are on site during the night shift in this current period?

- Did you or Mark Stott have prior knowledge of the communication sent out to investors which claimed that at that point in time no reason existed for FM to be claimed. As long as payments were up to date, compensation would be paid from the 1st January 2009

- While not related to the Torch, as part of determining SP/SG’s ability to set realistic expectations, (particularly when payments are tied to the dates), do you believe investors in The Point will get the keys to their apartments (and able to take up occupancy) during the month of May. It shouldn’t be too difficult to assess, given we're nearly in March now?

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i42.tinypic.com/nwaqvs.jpg
Taken from floor 52 Harbour Hotel 19 02 09

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i41.tinypic.com/x2umnp.jpg

Please pm me details of how to multi upload in tinypic as this is taking forever and I have about 200

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2lkp64l.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i42.tinypic.com/zim550.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2wq7io1.jpg

[Rider]

Great shots from a different viewpoint Charlie - thanks.

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i41.tinypic.com/207qp85.jpg

You are welcome. I am at the hotel and need to be on the beach so I have shown the cleaner how to do this so god knows what you will get but def no text. Make em out for yourselves.:cheers:

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i41.tinypic.com/wtfwxk.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2n2feb.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i40.tinypic.com/n5rej9.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i41.tinypic.com/23kryty.jpg

[FWIW]

When the developer letter was sent out, I responded by making a proposal to the developer as an alternative to cancellation. I decided to keep the content of it confidential in case they accepted my offer, on the basis that part of the value to them is that doing individual deals avoids the need for publicity and hence having to offer it on a blanket basis - and we may each value different things.

Today I received a reply from Paul Brady declining my offer. So now I feel able to put it into the public domain. My proposal was that I would agree to waive my claim against the developer for the loss of rental income from the contractual completion date of 31/06/08 plus six months' leeway until actual completion, up to a maximum of two years, if they waived the LPP instalments for the same period.

I was buying three two-beds on high floors so I'd say, even in the current climate, the rent would be at least AED 600k/yr. The LPP instalments are 290k/yr. So I was offering them a concession of up to AED 600k. They turned it down.

Of course, my claim for the lost rental income depends on being able to prove they're in breach of clause 9.3 - failure to use reasonable endeavours to deliver the project on time. Helpfully, their own letter provides ample evidence of their failings in this regard, and the lengthy delays to obtain the appropriate permissions, the change in design and master contractor, the reconfiguration of the floors and last summer's c**k up are all well documented on this floor, so I don't have any doubts about my ability to prove their breach. However, I'm sadly not in a position to pay out AED 580k in the next two years on the LPP against no rental income, when there should have been around AED 1,200k of rent in the same period, so my plan now is to return them on the first day they'll allow me to do so, and spend up to the total value of the returned funds on the subsequent litigation.

I feel very sad, on a personal level, that my association with the project will have to end either in the next couple of weeks or in June, depending on how they play things, but the fact is that if the developer was (a) sufficiently solvent to be able to allow a grace period or (b) honest enough not to be rewriting history to create the force majeure smokescreen, I might have been more inclined to consider sacrifices elsewhere to stick with them.

Having now decided to hand in my chips on this project I am interested in a London meeting with anyone else who wants to go down the same route. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not interested in a mutual sympathy exercise, just in talking to people who are prepared to put money into the kitty to go after the developer for damages consequent to a breach of clause 9.3.

Mistermark - very sorry to read this. Don't let the buggers get you down.

Have you thought that SP/SG may want need people to hand back their appartments at OP? My thinking goes that the other SP projects will be cancelled e.g. Botanica, West Avenue and those investors will be able to consolidate their purchases onto fast-tracked developments e.g. The Torch that are actually being built.

By folding all your chips in now, you will be letting them off easy. How about handing two back so you are still in the game?

[mackie1964]

For anyone who is thinking of handing back their unit/units, I would say wait for a few weeks and see what might come along. Not much to wait but it might be worth it as long as you protect your interests according to the contract :dunno:

[glover]

^^^^^ agree here! there is an off-plan law in the works now and should be out within few months. i would wait until it's out.

[High Times]

You are welcome. I am at the hotel and need to be on the beach so I have shown the cleaner how to do this so god knows what you will get but def no text. Make em out for yourselves.:cheers:

:applause:
Thanks Charlie, I hope you give your cleaner a good tip as this service surely falls under the "extras" of a cleaners terms of business. :naughty:


Have you thought that SP/SG may want need people to hand back their appartments at OP? My thinking goes that the other SP projects will be cancelled e.g. Botanica, West Avenue and those investors will be able to consolidate their purchases onto fast-tracked developments e.g. The Torch that are actually being built.

Interesting point, and a valid one too i share your suspicious mind on this one Spidey.

For anyone who is thinking of handing back their unit/units, I would say wait for a few weeks and see what might come along. Not much to wait but it might be worth it as long as you protect your interests according to the contract :dunno:

Mackie - have you signed the official secrets act now or what ?

Everything you say is either top secret or classified or encoded by some kind of enigma machine.

..

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_._ _
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._
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.

:cheers:

[FWIW]

:applause:

Interesting point, and a valid one too i share your suspicious mind on this one Spidey.


:cheers:

I don't think you need to be suspicious to come to this conclusion. Just look at the facts:

1) Botanica - no progress (ever)
2) West Avenue - no progress (ever)
3) Panic investors everywhere (even in Silverene ffs - selling at less than OP)
4) Other more reputable developers doing this to survive. Every business need to downsize in this economic climate.
5) Tone of recent Select Property posts saying "everything is alright", then bam Developer has done this/that/whatever/Force Majeure/etc.
6) No deals with existing Torch investors - in fact ignoring them seems to be doing the trick to make them 'fold'.
7) No one has yet received their Land Registration documents in Bay Central (and I am guessing on the torch too)

So if we take the above and apply some logic to it, you will see that this is the ONLY course of action that will proceed.

SP will be between a rock and a hard place - on one hand need to apease the anger from WA/Botanica investors, on the other trying to get long time torch investors to 'fold' and free up units.

They need YOUR apartments people - let them go for a song and they will be laughing...

Soon they will be calling you telling you that they are 'only' going to be doing a deal for you to give up your unit(s)...you will have limited time to comply.

[Imre]

20/February/2009

The Torch

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9209/imresolt002cy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9062/imresolt004ye8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/892/imresolt006vy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/527/imresolt008ur4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[mackie1964]

Deleted, Imre posted the same comment :)

[talks]

http://i40.tinypic.com/n5rej9.jpg



Charlie if your this close could you not try to get you cleaner a boiler suit and a hard hat to see if he would attempt to get inside the torch for more great pictures.:banana:

[Anjam]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9062/imresolt004ye8.jpg


??????

^^ Probably referring to the core:bash: Maybe some people will be living in the lift shafts so they count as residential floors!

[Dubai_Steve]

They need YOUR apartments people - let them go for a song and they will be laughing...

Soon they will be calling you telling you that they are 'only' going to be doing a deal for you to give up your unit(s)...you will have limited time to comply.

From select property website:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2qvftc1.jpg

[Sheltie]

Mistermark - very sorry to read this. Don't let the buggers get you down.

Have you thought that SP/SG may want need people to hand back their appartments at OP? My thinking goes that the other SP projects will be cancelled e.g. Botanica, West Avenue and those investors will be able to consolidate their purchases onto fast-tracked developments e.g. The Torch that are actually being built.

By folding all your chips in now, you will be letting them off easy. How about handing two back so you are still in the game?

This could be true as it's just happened to us in another project. 32 Group has offered to let us invest our money from the Snowdome Residences into The Concorde Tower as it is nearing completion.

[foxy]

On my recent communication with SP/SD they were a bit cheesed off with the missinformation being spread by some of the posters here.

Yeah right.. it the pots and kettles thing.

For me without this forum I would be in the dark.

FWIW like most here I spend an unhealthy amount of time second guessing why and how SP/SD are playing us for mugs. But I hadn't considered your angle. So thank you.

The FM was unexpected and completely cynical (unless offcourse it is simply a matter of survival).

At some point I am in favour of meeting up and discussing a coordinated campaign. Imagine if they hadn't wasted our time with the redesign and had concentrated on delivery like they are now doing, the building would now be complete.

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lbnxhl.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i43.tinypic.com/14lm4g1.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i42.tinypic.com/dcdd39.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qdcz8g.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i43.tinypic.com/28cosxe.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i40.tinypic.com/29cszdi.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

More to come later. Noticed some movement here today Friday.

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i39.tinypic.com/osycz4.jpg

[foxy]

Here's a reminder of their cynicism.

May 27 2007: letter sent to investors informing of delay. New completion date Sep 09.
June 1 2007: SP investors have paid in 90%

For construction progress see below.

These were the days when SP/SD were only thinking of growing their empire at our expense.




http://i12.tinypic.com/4zk7dix.jpg

http://i11.tinypic.com/4uvqscz.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i43.tinypic.com/23rtkp5.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i41.tinypic.com/2d7iu03.jpg

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i42.tinypic.com/99dnva.jpg

I really like this one taken from bar 44 GH.Shows the true level against the one behind

[charlie big potatoes]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2d6p6c6.jpg

[Imre]

Since communicating a revised forecast of milestones in completing the Torch, the casting of the residential floors up to level 55 has gone more or less according to schedule.


20/February/2009

The Torch

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9062/imresolt004ye8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:baeh3::baeh3::baeh3::baeh3::baeh3::baeh3:

[foxy]

Power to the People & Power of the SCC.........:banana:

No thanks to the DS Fan Club

It applies to everybody that bought in the Torch.

Don't you just love this. :lol:

[foxy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLondoner
I thought you'd all be interested in knowing the Dubai Select WILL be paying compensation, as they recognise that the delay which has occurred between the start of the build and now does
not fall within the definition of a force majeure.

Power to the People & Power of the SCC.........:banana:

No thanks to the DS Fan Club

It applies to everybody that bought in the Torch.

:lol:

[FWIW]

^^Is this true? Have they come to their senses?

[Sheltie]

I'm confused Foxy, where and when was this posted by the Londoner?

[FWIW]

I thought you'd all be interested in knowing the Dubai Select WILL be paying compensation, as they recognise that the delay which has occurred between the start of the build and now does
not fall within the definition of a force majeure.

I only have details relating those of you who have paid most of the money up front, PM me if you want the specific details.

I think I may have missed Foxy's sarcasm!

This is the Londoners post:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=13436893&postcount=3262

Londoner - you still out there me ol' china?

[mackie1964]

Don't you just love this. :lol:

What is the joke? Am I missing something :dunno: That was in 2007 based on the letter we all received :bash:

Was it that good that you had to post it twice?

[THEPOINT]

What is the joke? Am I missing something :dunno: That was in 2007 based on the letter we all received :bash:

Was it that good that you had to post it twice?
Dont get it either ?

[Dubai_Steve]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9209/imresolt002cy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Torch is looking quite attractive now. The curved glass appearance on the upper floors will look great when all completed.

[yecabel]

great pic steve, agree with u 100%

[foxy]

Power to the People & Power of the SCC.........:banana:

No thanks to the DS Fan Club

It applies to everybody that bought in the Torch.

What is the joke? Am I missing something :dunno: That was in 2007 based on the letter we all received :bash:

Was it that good that you had to post it twice?

Didn't mean to offend Mackie. I was just taking a trip down memory lane.

[foxy]

great pic steve, agree with u 100%

Me too. Nice and blue.

[mackie1964]

Didn't mean to offend Mackie. I was just taking a trip down memory lane.

I do the same but only with Morris's posts, when I need a laugh :lol::lol::banana::banana:

[Morrismarina]

I'm not saying this justifies things or that I'm happy, but I'd simply like to state a fact:

Have we all forgotten the developer is giving us 7 months compensation here, it's not like they're paying us nothing at all. :)