Power to the People & Power of the SCC.........:banana:

No thanks to the DS Fan Club

It applies to everybody that bought in the Torch.

What is the joke? Am I missing something :dunno: That was in 2007 based on the letter we all received :bash:

Was it that good that you had to post it twice?

Didn't mean to offend Mackie. I was just taking a trip down memory lane.

great pic steve, agree with u 100%

Me too. Nice and blue.

Didn't mean to offend Mackie. I was just taking a trip down memory lane.

I do the same but only with Morris's posts, when I need a laugh :lol::lol::banana::banana:

I'm not saying this justifies things or that I'm happy, but I'd simply like to state a fact:

Have we all forgotten the developer is giving us 7 months compensation here, it's not like they're paying us nothing at all. :)

No Steve wouldn't buy it.........the fridge/freezer is white. :lol:

Yeah, but look at the hood extractor.

Yeah, but look at the hood extractor.

What's wrong with it.........I think it looks great. :banana:

:lol: glad to see Morris has a good day at the office today.

Could I get a one bed in PI for 750,000 ??

Other than doing down SP as usual, which is obligatory content from you on this thread as always...........do you have any thoughts on the general sales/rental future in the Marina as per the questions I've raised ?? If so can you leave out all the positive spin about The Jewels and Dorrabay as we can leave that for another day.........sorry just pre-empting you TB. :lol:

No seriously I do value you opinion as an owener/regular visitor to the Marina with extensive knowledge of the area. :)


Morris I am readind gnads now you can get a 1 bed Dorra Bay 995K

Yes we were very busy at SP today.........I've had a great day...... I sold another furniture pack and it was my turn at ringing the bell........bonus time again !! :banana:

Morris I am readind gnads now you can get a 1 bed Dorra Bay 995K

Not for me...........to close to TB..........he''d drive me crazy.:lol:

Anyway can't afford the price difference, my TT unit cost 750,000 so I reckon I'm better keeping it for now.

I think the DS Fan Club will be so happy if CEO of SP get arrested :runaway:

:lol: glad to see Morris has a good day at the office today.

HE'S BACK - WELCOME MORRIS, YOUR OPTIMISTIC APPROACH TO LIFE AMUSES US ALL - WE MISSED YOU :lol:

Mistermark - very sorry to read this. Don't let the buggers get you down.

Have you thought that SP/SG may want need people to hand back their appartments at OP? My thinking goes that the other SP projects will be cancelled e.g. Botanica, West Avenue and those investors will be able to consolidate their purchases onto fast-tracked developments e.g. The Torch that are actually being built.

By folding all your chips in now, you will be letting them off easy. How about handing two back so you are still in the game?

You may be right. My plan is to hand them back one at a time and see what they do with them. Also, I'll be making it clear to them that if all I get when I hand them back is the cash returned that I put into the project starting almost four years ago, I'm prepared to spend up to 100 percent of the returned cash on the resulting litigation to recover my lost rent and capital appreciation.

I don't want to spend the next two years liaising with Dubai lawyers so will be going for a sensible return on my capital on a 'full and final settlement' basis. If they want to hand 'my' apartments on to buyers in other projects who've got fed up of waiting, that's fine by me, as long as I've made a fair return.

Don't want to freak anyone out, but there is a 2-bed Marina Heights apartment for sale for 1 million AED (fully furnished!) ... was 1.7mil

You may be right. My plan is to hand them back one at a time and see what they do with them. Also, I'll be making it clear to them that if all I get when I hand them back is the cash returned that I put into the project starting almost four years ago, I'm prepared to spend up to 100 percent of the returned cash on the resulting litigation to recover my lost rent and capital appreciation.

I don't want to spend the next two years liaising with Dubai lawyers so will be going for a sensible return on my capital on a 'full and final settlement' basis. If they want to hand 'my' apartments on to buyers in other projects who've got fed up of waiting, that's fine by me, as long as I've made a fair return.

Good luck with your litigation but I very much doubt you'll win. Just hope you don't lose too much money on lawyers, now that would be a sad waste of money.

Just seems a shame to me that you haven't the funds to proceed and the comment I made about this a few weeks ago this (which you rebuffed) has proven to be correct. You didn't budget for sufficient delays. Some very basic research on the Dubai market before you purchased would have told you to expect a two year delay as the norm and you have to include a contingency on this sort of timescale in your cashflow. Also relying on compensation to help fund your payments is a high risk strategy, all developers that have actually paid compensation have done so after hand-over.

Handing back your units back and getting a refund for what you've paid is a good deal IMO given the current state of the Dubai market.

Don't want to freak anyone out, but there is a 2-bed Marina Heights apartment for sale for 1 million AED (fully furnished!) ... was 1.7mil

Too late you've "freaked ME out" LOL - Who's got it ??

Good luck with your litigation but I very much doubt you'll win. Just hope you don't lose too much money on lawyers, now that would be a sad waste of money.

Just seems a shame to me that you haven't the funds to proceed and the comment I made about this a few weeks ago this (which you rebuffed) has proven to be correct. You didn't budget for sufficient delays. Some very basic research on the Dubai market before you purchased would have told you to expect a two year delay as the norm and you have to include a contingency on this sort of timescale in your cashflow. Also relying on compensation to help fund your payments is a high risk strategy, all developers that have actually paid compensation have done so after hand-over.

Handing back your units back and getting a refund for what you've paid is a good deal IMO given the current state of the Dubai market.

Shame on you Morris, such patronising behaviour coming from someone who persistently refused to believe that the Torch would be this late and consistently refered to the 1 year delay as being the norm in Dubai.

You have a short memory.:ohno:

BTW, Select are averaging 3 years delay on their portfolio. Would you have been so clever as to advise people on this forum to "bank on it". I don't think so.

Good luck with your litigation but I very much doubt you'll win. Just hope you don't lose too much money on lawyers, now that would be a sad waste of money.

Just seems a shame to me that you haven't the funds to proceed and the comment I made about this a few weeks ago this (which you rebuffed) has proven to be correct. You didn't budget for sufficient delays. Some very basic research on the Dubai market before you purchased would have told you to expect a two year delay as the norm and you have to include a contingency on this sort of timescale in your cashflow. Also relying on compensation to help fund your payments is a high risk strategy, all developers that have actually paid compensation have done so after hand-over.

Handing back your units back and getting a refund for what you've paid is a good deal IMO given the current state of the Dubai market.

I'm not sure quite where to start with this. First, on the two other projects in Dubai where I've bought and been subject to delays, the developers have settled out of court when it became clear I would litigate and that they would lose. This one may well go the same way, and if it doesn't, why do you think I'll lose the litigation?

I do have the funds to proceed, but only by changing more Sterling or Euros into Dirhams at a very unfavourable rate or liquidating a Dirham asset at a low point in the cycle. Why should I do this, to accommodate a developer who started a project 14 months late because they chose to redesign it and appoint a new master contractor, then introduced further delays by reconfiguring the floors? I bought into this development in May 2005 on the basis of a three-year build. Realistically, I think those of us on high floors should be prepared to take delivery in the first half of 2011 - SIX YEARS after the project was released... And even Giles, in a post to this very forum, has made it pretty clear that he doubts we'll be taking delivery before the second half of 2010.

As for 'some very basic research... before you purchased', with respect, how patronising is does that sound? First, as I mentioned previously, The Torch was the third Dubai development I bought into, not the first. Second, how many developments had been completed in May 2005, and is it fair to say that the Emirate had yet gained its current reputation for under- and late delivery?

Finally, at the time when I and others committed to buy in this project we understood it to be a joint venture between a UK company and an Emirati one and received contracts with clauses such as 9.3 in it that obliged the developer to complete on time and, in the absence of a stated compensation mechanism if they breached that clause, made them liable for common damages.

Of course I was aware of the risk of delays. I've indicated to the developer and SP that I'm willing to stick with the project until handover, even if this is a year or so beyond even their latest projections (which I expect to be the case). All I ask in return is that they share the financial burden of their failings as a developer and, perhaps more important, the delays caused by their commercial decisions to change the design, contractor and floor configurations.

What's wrong with it.........I think it looks great. :banana:

EXACTLY ... unlike the one in here.

Ahhhhhh......excellent reply Mistermark............you're very smart, enough to realise I was winding you up a little bit. :kiss:

I really must stop this........I learnt it from True Blue. :lol: Does encourage good debat though. .:)

Some new photos on MYSELECT PROPERTY for the month of Feb.

Does that bathroom woodwork finish look idle or what?

Is that 2 different finishes I see or was I up to late last night.

CONSIDER THIS..............
Probably only applies to SPP, and will vary depending on when you brought in. If you brought in early you have this BUFFER get out of jail card that you can lay soon with giving back and benefitting from the currency differance. Many on here are wondering if this is good or bad and are they shooting themselves in the foot, or should they weather the storm. They should be greatfull they have this get out up their sleve. Why dont a few of you club together take a half page in GN and put a flat on with every agent at cost, which is what you are going to get back from SP plus 2.5%. In todays market you will not get a call, so having that buffer is a god send. I am not sure how open ended this give back deal will be on the table for with these B.....ds as you will be playing a money game with the exchange rate. Unfair to SP if you all through the towel in if the dhs hits sub 5. Just a thought while I am here and looking at what you can get. Todays GN has a 1760 MS at 1.7.

^^ I can see this project coming to a halt if the market continues to drop. All SPP buyers will want a refund. What will happen if 300 SPP buyers all request refunds at the same time?

Is the SG buy back offer only available to those on SPP ??

^^ I can see this project coming to a halt if the market continues to drop. All SPP buyers will want a refund. What will happen if 300 SPP buyers all request refunds at the same time?

Can't see it somehow. As long as FM is being claimed, refunds can't be requested until 1st July. TS then have something like 50 days to 'consider' the request. Stall tactics would then kick in with a series of rejections, responses, counter responses right until the thing is finally built. Giving refunds to SPP Investors would hurt the developer the most given the 90% capital outlay.

Many might disagree with this but I do actually do think that the developer is now on a mission to get this built asap. They've already played their FM card and and have released a revised production schedule which they will be held to. The quicker they can complete the less compensation gets deducted from the final instalments.

I phoned SP this morning and as far as they are aware you have to wait until 1st July if you want to hand back your unit. They did say check with the developer though. So don't know where the talk of buying them back right now has come from.

Read your contract :bash::bash:

Mackie I have read my contract, many times. You're reading it wrong.

The issue is the bit in 15.1 that says "unless the delay in due to FM in which case the provisions of clause 15.3 apply".

Clause 15.3 states that you can exercise your right to cancel the contract after 30th June 2009 if such delay is due to FM.

So clearly you cannot give your unit back until 30th June 2009. :bash:

(I know some of you are reading it differently, but I reckon you're wrong.)

Mackie I have read my contract, many times. You're reading it wrong.

When I finish watching the mighty United, I may educate you a little :lol::banana:

Did they teach you anything in that Wilmslow SOB :lol:

Thanks I'll look forward to it, I hope you can prove me wrong.

Which United is the mighty one ??

You're also a very clever guy Mackie, can watch a footie game and also go on the internet at the same time.........wow.:lol:

The kids took their friend to the game so I am having to watch it at home like a nice daddy :lol::banana: 2/1 to the mighty reds :banana:

Thanks I'll look forward to it, I hope you can prove me wrong.

Which United is the mighty one ??

You're also a very clever guy Mackie, can watch a footie game and also go on the internet at the same time.........wow.:lol:


It is easy if you have media center PC hooked up to a projector.

Bliss

Nice to know you support a great team Mackie. Yeah, come on you Reds. :banana:

(My third favourite team after Wolves and West Ham. My first football strip when I was 6 was a Reds outfit so I always like 'em to do well.)

Mackie I have read my contract, many times. You're reading it wrong.

The issue is the bit in 15.1 that says "unless the delay in due to FM in which case the provisions of clause 15.3 apply".

Clause 15.3 states that you can exercise your right to cancel the contract after 30th June 2009 if such delay is due to FM.

So clearly you cannot give your unit back until 30th June 2009. :bash:

(I know some of you are reading it differently, but I reckon you're wrong.)



Sorry Morris,but my contract says that if the Seller is unable to give
possession and occupation of the Property by the 30thJune 2009 and such delay is due to FM then either party shall have the right to terminate the agreement.


Well my view is that the Seller has notified us all stating they cannot give possession by the 30thJune 2009 so therefore we have the right to termiate now and give 20 days notice.

Don't let the Seller make you believe that if there is going to be a breach of contract,and admitted in writing to this that you have to wait for the breach to happen.

No one should have to fund them anymore knowing that they shall breach the contract and admitting that they well breach it.

Sorry Morris,but my contract says that if the Seller is unable to give
possession and occupation of the Property by the 30thJune 2009 and such delay is due to FM then either party shall have the right to terminate the agreement.


Well my view is that the Seller has notified us all stating they cannot give possession by the 30thJune 2009 so therefore we have the right to termiate now and give 20 days notice.

Don't let the Seller make you believe that if there is going to be a breach of contract,and admitted in writing to this that you have to wait for the breach to happen.

No one should have to fund them anymore knowing that they shall breach the contract and admitting that they well breach it.

I see you point Talks...

Sorry Morris,but my contract says that if the Seller is unable to give
possession and occupation of the Property by the 30thJune 2009 and such delay is due to FM then either party shall have the right to terminate the agreement.


Well my view is that the Seller has notified us all stating they cannot give possession by the 30thJune 2009 so therefore we have the right to termiate now and give 20 days notice.

Don't let the Seller make you believe that if there is going to be a breach of contract,and admitted in writing to this that you have to wait for the breach to happen.

No one should have to fund them anymore knowing that they shall breach the contract and admitting that they well breach it.

I see your point but I'm still not so sure from a legal standpoint. It could still be interpreted that the date you are able to cancel your contract is 30th June. I reckon we need a lawyer to give an opinion on this one. You might be right though as I'm not a lawyer. What does the developer say about it ??

I see your point but I'm still not so sure from a legal standpoint. It could still be interpreted that the date you are able to cancel your contract is 30th June. I reckon we need a lawyer to give an opinion on this one. You might be right though as I'm not a lawyer. What does the developer say about it ??




To date I've had am email from Paul Brady stating that my 20 day notice was now being dealt with.

What that means I don't know.Time will only tell.

To date I've had am email from Paul Brady stating that my 20 day notice was now being dealt with.

What that means I don't know.Time will only tell.

Time will tell ?? :wtf:

Why don't you e-mail Paul Brady now and ask him ?? If I'd given 20 days notice I'd sure want to know NOW how they were interpreting clause 15.3. In fact I'd want to know the answer BEFORE I'd have given the notice.

I'm no lawyer either but I imagine that the letter from the developer confirming the delay along with the revised schedule is merely a written communication and not an amendment to the contract.

I'm sure the developer will find a way of arguing that nothing can be terminated before 30th June as per the contract.

^^ Does it make much difference which date, they are only 16 weeks or so apart now.

To date I've had am email from Paul Brady stating that my 20 day notice was now being dealt with.

What that means I don't know.Time will only tell.

I am not a lawyer and this my personal opinion only. Also I only have a Bay Central contract to go on but would assume that The Torch is very similar. Again you will need to double check on specific details in your contracts.

The keyword for me in the sentance is 'by'. As the developer has envoked FM well in advance of this date, then it is obvious that handover ON or BEFORE the 30th June 2009 is impossible. For this reason I believe an investor can give 20 business days notice in writing to terminate the agreement.

The developer should return all funds on Day 21 in my book. They will probably try and convince you that they need 30 business days. However, that 30 day clause in the previous paragraph is rendered invalid as they have invoked FM.

Now, what is actually very worrying to me is that by invoking FM they have the 'right' to also give buyers the 20 business day notice.

Either way, whichever way the termination notice goes, it states that "The buyer shall have no claims against the seller in respect of damages, compensation or costs".

So Talks I am pretty sure they will 'have to' accept your termination notice/letter.

I would recommend that other buyers take steps to protect their investment and get a Lawyer or RERA help asap. By invoking FM, the investor could be hung out to dry. The only protection I see a buyer getting is by obtaining the Land Registry certificate of ownership and/or making a claim against SP for damages, compensation and costs.

As I said earlier this is just my opinion and if you just want your money back then not a great worry.

I hope that contracts will not be terminated by the seller and the Torch ending up being sold or converted into a hotel or time share business, funded by the investors all along.

Did'nt something similar happen to the Dreams building in the marina. :dunno:

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/54i2pw.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/6zaqtw.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5328/plansd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_15db6qccdf

Looks like the podium will have 13 large palm trees.

Mackie I have read my contract, many times. You're reading it wrong.

The issue is the bit in 15.1 that says "unless the delay in due to FM in which case the provisions of clause 15.3 apply".

Clause 15.3 states that you can exercise your right to cancel the contract after 30th June 2009 if such delay is due to FM.

So clearly you cannot give your unit back until 30th June 2009. :bash:

(I know some of you are reading it differently, but I reckon you're wrong.)

Get your lawyer to read it or better still get a good laywer to read it.:wink2:

I can just about tolerate the bathroom but those kitchen worktops look like the absolute bottom of the range

I hope that contracts will not be terminated by the seller and the Torch ending up being sold or converted into a hotel or time share business, funded by the investors all along.

Did'nt something similar happen to the Dreams building in the marina. :dunno:

I seriously doubt that SP would be able to financialy cope with a buy back on such a large scale even if they wanted to do it, let alone deal with the bad publicity that it would generate in Dubai and back in the UK.

West Avenue and Botanica investors may be their exit route as i cant see those projects going ahead in this climate. As i understand it they were being sold at 1500 psf and higher so there is definately mileage in the suggestion that those investors could be offered opt outs in their SPA's for what will turn out to be a far superior development.

If i had bought a 2 bed in Botanica and was offered a swap for a 2 bed in the Torch ready to occupy or rent in 18-24 months then i would take it.

If 25% of the Torch investors hand back this would facilitate SP to switch West Avenaue and Botanica investors and then sit on the land until things pick up in 2010/11.

They can then re-launch West Avenue and Botanica at potentially higher prices in a rising market.

When Paying back Torch units at OP to investors, and then using these units to offset investors who have paid considerably higher OP's there will be considerable profit in that process alone. May even go some way towards the cost of the land for West Avenue and Botanica which could then be sold or retained for later use.

Ultimately a compulsary buy back from the developer in the Torch could be one trick too many for the is outfit.

Yes you've summed the position up very well HT. Botanica and West Avenue investors must be very concerned about what they've bought into, given the current climate, compounded by the lack of any progress. A swap to TT would be a gift from heaven. Also SP would be seen to be the knight in shining armour for both them and also those wishing to exit TT. So everybody would be happy. :cheers:

I would imagine though that SP would only initially allow WA investors to move over as Botanica is fully sold out unlike WA. So WA is more of a problem than Botanica. Also WA was sold for much high prices per sq ft.

Also WA was sold for much high prices per sq ft.

It was 2500 per sq ft.

I am convinced that things will get better.At the moment there are a lot of distressed sales as expatriates continue to leave the UAE.collecting stranded loan cars at the Airport is now a daily thing for the hire and finance companies.
The proposed merger between Amlak and Tamweel the two big boys in the UAE will hopefully be announced at the end of this month or early next month.If it goes ahead the confidence will definitely come back and lending will commence again.
The UAE govts. simply cannot afford for them two to go 'bust' otherwise that will be the end of Dubai.So the govt will pump money into them to ensure these two do succeed and the vision continues albeit at a slower rate.

I seriously doubt that SP would be able to financialy cope with a buy back on such a large scale even if they wanted to do it, let alone deal with the bad publicity that it would generate in Dubai and back in the UK.

West Avenue and Botanica investors may be their exit route as i cant see those projects going ahead in this climate. As i understand it they were being sold at 1500 psf and higher so there is definately mileage in the suggestion that those investors could be offered opt outs in their SPA's for what will turn out to be a far superior development.

If i had bought a 2 bed in Botanica and was offered a swap for a 2 bed in the Torch ready to occupy or rent in 18-24 months then i would take it.

If 25% of the Torch investors hand back this would facilitate SP to switch West Avenaue and Botanica investors and then sit on the land until things pick up in 2010/11.

They can then re-launch West Avenue and Botanica at potentially higher prices in a rising market.

When Paying back Torch units at OP to investors, and then using these units to offset investors who have paid considerably higher OP's there will be considerable profit in that process alone. May even go some way towards the cost of the land for West Avenue and Botanica which could then be sold or retained for later use.

Ultimately a compulsary buy back from the developer in the Torch could be one trick too many for the is outfit.

I agree with all the above. In particular, I don't think there's a realistic prospect of the developer enforcing a buy-back using the FM clause if/when the market recovers. Not only would this require huge amounts of working capital and generate adverse publicity but there will inevitably be some purchasers, especially those from Ireland and Russia, who made their money in industries where disputes aren't settled in court, if you get my drift, who would be unlikely to take it lying down. So I don't fear this scenario.

I've just checked the SPA for my three units and here's the wording of 15.3:

"If the Buyer has fulfilled all his obligations under the terms of this Agreement and the Seller is unable to give possession and occupation of the property by 30 June 2009, and such delay is due to Force Majeure, then either party shall have the right to terminate this Agreement by serving on the other twenty (20) Business Days notice in writing. The Buyer shall have no claims against the Seller in respect of damages, compensation or costs."

In a letter dated 29 January 2009, Paul Brady, a director of Torch Select Ltd, wrote:

"its new completion date of 31st January 2010".

And a director of the sole selling agent (and joint venture partner, according to the early publicity) posted on this forum to indicate that there is doubt whether we can expect to take delivery and occupation before the second half of 2010.

I believe there is therefore now no doubt that the developer is unable to give possession and occupation by 30 June 2009, and we are therefore entitled to give 20 business days' notice of termination at any time. So I agree with the guys who said there's no need to wait to the end of June.

Did someone switch the light on round here :dunno:
People are starting to see a bit clearer :) Still one corner of the room is dark an not been seen yet. Think outside the box :cheers:

Forget this naivety about the developer going bust and negative on here forced their hand b****x. Think the bigger pictures and much bigger plans to correct mistakes of the past, things that were not thought through early days :)

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Mystic Mackie has spoken.

Look into my eyes, Look into my eyes.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ciheuc.jpg

:lol:

SP website has taken down the floor plan of type B 1 bedroom , changed the size description of type A to 89.5sqm.
But internal dimensions are still unchanged! & add up to 76.75sqm. why is 12.75sqm(138sqf) still missing? 4meters/3meters
Will call Monday/Tuesday to find out whats going on.

In a letter dated 29 January 2009, Paul Brady, a director of Torch Select Ltd, wrote:

"its new completion date of 31st January 2010".



I agree. A letter merely advising a new estimated completion date surely can't be construed as a contract amendment.

You will see the space for the free standing cooker has been replaced with a base unit and stainless steel onev with electric hob this is a typical 1 bed.

http://i39.tinypic.com/1z39jc1.jpg

:lol:

Did someone switch the light on round here :dunno:
People are starting to see a bit clearer :) Still one corner of the room is dark an not been seen yet. Think outside the box :cheers:

Forget this naivety about the developer going bust and negative on here forced their hand b****x. Think the bigger pictures and much bigger plans to correct mistakes of the past, things that were not thought through early days :)

Does the answer lie within the contract, Master?

You mean something about this http://www.ukdata.com/numbers/06774626.html ? :dunno:

http://i41.tinypic.com/291m26b.jpg

:omg: That must be the cheapest hob in Dubai. Only three rings (normally 4) which are the old fashioned block variety. Surely we should have a nice flat ceramic/halogen hob.

I wouldn't even put that in one of my cheapest UK rental properties. Now that is really taking the piss. What a disaster. I can't believe it !! And the oven looks like ex-Army issue !! :puke:

It's not all bad. At least there's a sink we can all throw up in when we see our high quality kitchens first hand :bash:

Seriously, that's a f'ing disgrace - bottom of the range cheap shite. Think I'll start compiling my snagging list now

I presume the Torch and Point kitchens & bathroom's will be identical ?

My wife's villa in satwa, which for the last few years was earning her a tidy sum as a 12-room bachelor hide-out had very similar kitchens, I swear... i got pictures somewhere and will post when i find them to compare.

Something tells me that the labour camp has some cracking new hobs fitted in all the dorms:lol:

As a first post I thought I would cheer everybody up!

READ THE AGREEMENT.

Clause 15.2 states that you can give 20 days notice and within 30 days of the expiry of that notice get a refund of all monies paid.

However Clause 15.3 is the clause that will now apply and this says nothing about getting your money back.

This has been the plan all along. Build hundreds of apartments using OPM, delay the project so that the 'FUCK YOU' clause comes into effect. Serve notice on 1/7/09 to terminate the agreements reposess the properties and start letting the apartments out for a nice little earner.

Trust me they have no intention of giving us our money back. This has been a well planned con from the start and we're all screwed. If it wasn't why does Clause 15.3 not contain the refund provision of Clause 15.2.

As a first post I thought I would cheer everybody up!

READ THE AGREEMENT.

Clause 15.2 states that you can give 20 days notice and within 30 days of the expiry of that notice get a refund of all monies paid.

However Clause 15.3 is the clause that will now apply and this says nothing about getting your money back.

This has been the plan all along. Build hundreds of apartments using OPM, delay the project so that the 'FUCK YOU' clause comes into effect. Serve notice on 1/7/09 to terminate the agreements reposess the properties and start letting the apartments out for a nice little earner.

Trust me they have no intention of giving us our money back. This has been a well planned con from the start and we're all screwed. If it wasn't why does Clause 15.3 not contain the refund provision of Clause 15.2.

I would say that it's implied within 15.3 that as you have the right to unilaterally cancel your contract the purchase monies are refunded, otherwise why would they give you this right to cancel. It does not state that you cannot claim for a refund of your purchase monies but as per clause 15.2 that you cannot claim for damages, compensation or costs.

Is "costs" to mean the purchase monies you've paid though ?? Unlikely as costs is not the same as purchase monies within clause 15.2 which says the same and yet I agree 15.2 does expressly provide for you to have your purchase monies refunded, whereas 15.3 does not.

RERA would not allow the developer to cancel your unit and for the developer keep it.

I've sent an e-mail to the developer to confirm that if I cancel will all purchase monies be refunded and whether I have to wait until 30th June. I would urge anybody else interested in doing this, or just simply wanting to find out as an option, to do the same.

Just look at the workstops, made up of lots of little pieces of granite sealed together, not long runs of sleekness.. the absolute cheapest way to fit granite, they will be the little off cuts and cheapest pieces etc... Luxury, yeah right.. MY ARSE !! I pity the person I have to snag my units with...

^^ Totally agree, all those little joined off cuts are going on my snag list to. This will cost the developer a lot of money to put right and will need to source new granite for the entire building. Why don't they just get it right at the start.

The ovens remind me of my bachelor university digs in the late 1980s. Does anyone know the best way to dispose of them (without destroying the environment) if we get our units?

^^ Totally agree, all those little joined off cuts are going on my snag list to. This will cost the developer a lot of money to put right and will need to source new granite for the entire building. Why don't they just get it right at the start.

The ovens remind me of my bachelor university digs in the late 1980s.

Hob reminds me of a refurbishment project we did in the late 90's, 94 year old lady lived there and had not done any work for 40 odd years... seriously, the simularity is uncanny.. I haven't totally missed the point here, the did not market these properties as Retro did they... :lol:

I haven't totally missed the point here, they did not market these properties as Retro did they... :lol:

Maybe they are ahead of the game again with the retro 80s styleee. And that army stlyed silver oven will go nicely with the cool back to basics smart price rollback white extractor.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2qweu7t.jpg

Can't wait to see the fridge!

I hope the MST plot in front stays empty because we're going to need it to hold a load of skips for us to dump this crap into.

Something tells me that the kitchen just may be the beginning.

Can't wait to see the fridge![/QUOTE]

Now then Steve, Seriously, you can !!!

I hope the MST plot in front stays empty because we're going to need it to hold a load of skips for us to dump this crap into.

Something tells me that the kitchen just may be the beginning.

I've had a brain wave, perhaps we could actually sell the kitchen appliances back to Select for another of their luxury developments... we could put the money TOWARDS a nice meal out somewhere.

Great idea, add the compensation money to it and we might be able to have a big night out at McDonalds in Dubai Marina mall. :lol:

Great idea, add the compensation money to it and we might be able to have a big night out at McDonalds in Dubai Marina mall. :lol:

Happy meals all around then....LMAO..:lol::lol::lol:

The thing is I think you Torch guys and gals will be getting the 'new' stuff.

Bay Central is only going to get the dreggs that are left...
Just look at the joinery of the worktops. That looks shocking. I could do a better diy job, and I am sh*t at diy. Or so I thought.

I wonder which apartmets are Mark Stott's personal ones. Maybe someone could sneak a peak at his kitchen? I bet it would have the good stuff!

This outfit have well and truly p***ed me off. Luxury my ar*e!

^^ Totally agree, all those little joined off cuts are going on my snag list to. This will cost the developer a lot of money to put right and will need to source new granite for the entire building. Why don't they just get it right at the start.

The ovens remind me of my bachelor university digs in the late 1980s. Does anyone know the best way to dispose of them (without destroying the environment) if we get our units?

I agree Steve just off cuts or, just a cheaper way off fitting rather than using a proper mitre saw. The units should be cut and fitted as per the blue line I've drawn below as one long piece of worktop. Not as per the yellow lines in little rectangular blocks. They can't even fit the kitchens properly. This is totally unacceptable. Looks like I'll be replacing the worktops and cooker immediately......might be able to live with the tiles and cabinets for a while.......the tiles are very bland and insipid looking but at least they're neutral and not some garrish colour..........but we should not be expected to put up with this crap.

http://i40.tinypic.com/107jjes.jpg

I'm sure there was a post a couple of years ago with samples of tiles etc. which were going to be used. Does anyone know where it might be on SSC. Or does anyone have the original information?

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg

Yes there is somewhere in the archive. Mackie took a photo I think. I don't see any real problem with the granite/marble or tiles being used, only the quality of the design, workmanship, project management and the appliances and maybe also the kitchen cabinets.

The photo of the point kitchen above looks worse than the photo of the Torch one shown here for some reason.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg


The photo of the point kitchen above looks worse than the photo of the Torch one shown here for some reason.


Like i said before...

Point is a 3 star finish
Torch is a 4 star
Bay central 5 star..

^^ Oops!

Like i said before...

Point is a 3 star finish
Torch is a 4 star
Bay central 5 star..

how do you know the finishing the BC, still just hole.

then,

Botanica 6 star
West Avenue 7 star

Only one finish that DCE know and that is S**t finish. Same materials used in all of their developments, same tiles, same worktops, same unskilled workers and supervisors :bash::bash:

how do you know the finishing the BC, still just hole.

then,

Botanica 6 star
West Avenue 7 star

Now days , Cheap price of building materials is not a sign of speedy of construction progress as same as the luxuries thing ! :lol:

^^ I couldn't have put it better myself. Actually, I could but I won't.

^^ I couldn't have put it better myself. Actually, I could but I won't.:lol::lol:you crack me up man !!

how do you know the finishing the BC, still just hole.

then,

Botanica 6 star
West Avenue 7 star


theres a long wait untill we see Bay central kitchens.. but im hoping the hotel tower will have better units and maybe ours aswell..

Is the hotel tower still on the agenda?

with SP were all in the dark and when the time comes they spring it on us.. well have too wait and see..

Are there any Dubai based investors who can be allowed to see their apartments and also be shown round the show apartments to put us all out of this misery? Somebody's apartment is actually the "show apartment" and therefore the owner must be allowed in!!

I agree Steve just off cuts or, just a cheaper way off fitting rather than using a proper mitre saw. The units should be cut and fitted as per the blue line I've drawn below as one long piece of worktop. Not as per the yellow lines in little rectangular blocks. They can't even fit the kitchens properly. This is totally unacceptable. Looks like I'll be replacing the worktops and cooker immediately......might be able to live with the tiles and cabinets for a while.......the tiles are very bland and insipid looking but at least they're neutral and not some garrish colour..........but we should not be expected to put up with this crap.

http://i40.tinypic.com/107jjes.jpg

Morris you have now proved you have absolutly NO building experiance at all.

Are there any Dubai based investors who can be allowed to see their apartments and also be shown round the show apartments to put us all out of this misery? Somebody's apartment is actually the "show apartment" and therefore the owner must be allowed in!!

Judging by the photos released so far I dont think it is ready or snagged. They have been carefully taken to hide certain parts.

^^^^ I asked this question about which apartment was to be the show apartment & was told it was to be 701 when I said that was my apartment & it would have been nice if they had asked first,I was the told sorry it was 710,two days later I got a call back & was told it was going to be the whole of the seventh floor but there would no show apartments just mock ups so that the contractors could see what was required to make them all the same

^^

Are you sure they said mock-ups?

..

Are there any Dubai based investors who can be allowed to see their apartments and also be shown round the show apartments to put us all out of this misery? Somebody's apartment is actually the "show apartment" and therefore the owner must be allowed in!!

I have been in yesterday and the materials are the same as TP. Works are at the same finish up to where i got on level 24. All 1st fix wiring and plumbing, tiling and carpentry complete. Kitchens all in but no appliances or door fronts. No sanitryware installed yet.

I presume the Torch and Point kitchens & bathroom's will be identical ?

100% RIGHT.

Like i said before...

Point is a 3 star finish
Torch is a 4 star
Bay central 5 star..

Beppe unfortunatly all the stars will be equal.

Judging by the photos released so far I dont think it is ready or snagged. They have been carefully taken to hide certain parts.

Steve are you talking about the pictures I have taken over the past few days?

Charlie;

Did you take any photos whithin the Torch? :cheers:

Hey guys!

Whats the latest in the Dubai soap opera?! I cant be bothered reading 4 days worth of posts so just need the omnibus run-down! Any juicy developments???

How many of you guys have put SP on your 'friends and family' list!

Steve are you talking about the pictures I have taken over the past few days?

No only the ones posted by Select of Torch interiors.

Dear fellow construction update posters.

I have had an email from someone who has invested in the Marina Pinnacle.

Apparently, construction has stopped, and there is a big for sale sign on the MP building. I don't know how true this is, but for those who are able to take a photo of MP to provide proof would you mind posting photos on the Marina Pinnacle thread.

I pray it's not true.:ohno:

Hi All

Just FYI :

For legal reasons, I don't want to go into the detail of the 4 points, nor the content of the meeting itself, however, having met with Paul Brady recently, we agreed a 4 point plan to take back to the TS Board and Aslam, which both he and I felt were "reasonable" requests.

I agreed that if these points were to be accepted by the TS Board, I would be happy to continue without objection on the project investment.

He came back to me as planned (at least he did!).

The survey said .....

Point 1 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:
Point 2 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:
Point 3 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:
Point 4 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:

So there you have it - their intentions summed up. I hope they can sleep at night and I hope their wives are very proud of them.

Paul is a nice guy to meet with (bless him), but the TS Board is clearly not listening to him or his recommendations (assuming they went forward that is). I would suggest that any such meetings over there needs to be directly with the main man, Aslam, if possible.

Just thought you all ought to know this.

I could go into detail about my tour of the Torch, and I could fire in some negatives there, but in summary (and on balance), there were positives also;

1) The views from the 47th floor are excellent. From aspect 05, views both down the marina and a majority of the JBR coast line.

2) The lower 1 bed views lower down on aspect 12 are particularly good also, with wide angle views across to the Palm, due to the dual carriage way road layout at the back.

3) The show apartment insides are very basic, low grade, certainly not 5 star as sold to us. I was quite disappointed with them. Finish is terrible and would not be approved in the UK.

4) There is an aweful lot still to do in a very short space of time inside. I wish them luck on this. My money is on between Sep 2010 and Jan 2011 for completion above floor 50.

Regards

The Torch

Morris you have now proved you have absolutly NO building experiance at all.

You're right I've never fitted a kitchen myself, but there again I wasn't claiming I had but I know how my kitchen was fitted in the UK, how the worktops should fit together and what a proper fitted kitchen looks like. And I know what a decent hob should look like as well.

Replacing the worktops would actually be difficult without replacement tiles but I'd probably put a few runs of nice coloured ones immediately above the worktop area and get away with leaving the rest. But I'm open to some suggestions if you think there's a better option ?? :)

You're right I've never fitted a kitchen myself, but there again I wasn't claiming I had but I know how my kitchen was fitted in the UK, how the worktops should fit together and what a proper fitted kitchen looks like. And I know what a decent hob should look like as well.

Replacing the worktops would actually be difficult without replacement tiles but I'd probably put a few runs of nice coloured ones immediately above the worktop area and get away with leaving the rest. But I'm open to some suggestions if you think there's a better option ?? :)

Morris you do not mitre granite, it leaves a totally un supported diagonal joint that is very weak and becomes thin at the triangle points so maybe you need to discuss this with your kitchen fitters. The joints are usually over the point where 2 base units meet giving added support, enough of that. Agree the hobs are shit but the ovens will do trust me. Base unit doors are 720mm high and wall units are 600mm high. I priced high gloss replacement doors for the 3 bed kitchen posted on tp thread all 3 sides inc lighting pelmet and plinths plus dishwasher door and long stainless rod handles for dhs1825 locally so add to that a chippy for a day and a few blum soft closers taken from england and you are all done for under a monkey.

Someone somewhere wrote they expected induction hob these appts are wired for the hob in 6mm t&e so check b4 buying.

Dear fellow construction update posters.

I have had an email from someone who has invested in the Marina Pinnacle.

Apparently, construction has stopped, and there is a big for sale sign on the MP building. I don't know how true this is, but for those who are able to take a photo of MP to provide proof would you mind posting photos on the Marina Pinnacle thread.

I pray it's not true.:ohno:


Just drove past MP: so you know, construction hasn't stopped at all. As for the big for sale sign, what it actually says is:
"Luxury apartments for Sale".

Thanks Jo. I didn't sleep a wink last night.

I think the email came from someone misinformed or with a hatred of tiger properties.

I'm guessing getting the granite redone nicely there shouldn't be all that expensive either. They use stone so much more than we do in the UK - and they always have done. There should be a wealth of expertise and experience. I suppose the key word here is "nicely." because standards of workmanship are subjective. The guys fitting the stuff may not see the odd chip as an issue. It's all in the seams, edges and, cut-outs. My experience out there was that most nice quality furnishings are f****d up by the fitters. Sometimes it's enough to make you weep! I surmised that the fundamental problem is that the guys doing the work all grew up in a land where there were no straight lines and nothing was ever level or square. They just can't see the problem when you point it out!

Morris you do not mitre granite, it leaves a totally un supported diagonal joint that is very weak and becomes thin at the triangle points so maybe you need to discuss this with your kitchen fitters. The joints are usually over the point where 2 base units meet giving added support, enough of that. Agree the hobs are shit but the ovens will do trust me. Base unit doors are 720mm high and wall units are 600mm high. I priced high gloss replacement doors for the 3 bed kitchen posted on tp thread all 3 sides inc lighting pelmet and plinths plus dishwasher door and long stainless rod handles for dhs1825 locally so add to that a chippy for a day and a few blum soft closers taken from england and you are all done for under a monkey.

Someone somewhere wrote they expected induction hob these appts are wired for the hob in 6mm t&e so check b4 buying.

^^

Are you sure they said mock-ups?

yes Mock-ups & that was back in december

http://www.quetschluft.de/dubai/300_1936_qa.jpg

As a first post I thought I would cheer everybody up!

READ THE AGREEMENT.

Clause 15.2 states that you can give 20 days notice and within 30 days of the expiry of that notice get a refund of all monies paid.

However Clause 15.3 is the clause that will now apply and this says nothing about getting your money back.

This has been the plan all along. Build hundreds of apartments using OPM, delay the project so that the 'FUCK YOU' clause comes into effect. Serve notice on 1/7/09 to terminate the agreements reposess the properties and start letting the apartments out for a nice little earner.

Trust me they have no intention of giving us our money back. This has been a well planned con from the start and we're all screwed. If it wasn't why does Clause 15.3 not contain the refund provision of Clause 15.2.

I was worried too about the fact that it didn't mention that they had to return payments made if either side terminated on 30 June (although I thought it must be implied), but I got written confirmation from Paul Brady that money will be returned if we terminate. He also said that we had to wait until 30 June and can't do it now. But I would be interested in getting a lawyer's opinion on whether we are entitled to get it returned now, because they have already stated that it won't be ready by that date.

^^
Sorry, I don't know how to post the quote properly!

Hi All

Just FYI :

For legal reasons, I don't want to go into the detail of the 4 points, nor the content of the meeting itself, however, having met with Paul Brady recently, we agreed a 4 point plan to take back to the TS Board and Aslam, which both he and I felt were "reasonable" requests.

I agreed that if these points were to be accepted by the TS Board, I would be happy to continue without objection on the project investment.

He came back to me as planned (at least he did!).

The survey said .....

Point 1 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:
Point 2 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:
Point 3 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:
Point 4 - Board Rejected Proposal :bash:

So there you have it - their intentions summed up. I hope they can sleep at night and I hope their wives are very proud of them.

Paul is a nice guy to meet with (bless him), but the TS Board is clearly not listening to him or his recommendations (assuming they went forward that is). I would suggest that any such meetings over there needs to be directly with the main man, Aslam, if possible.

Just thought you all ought to know this.

I could go into detail about my tour of the Torch, and I could fire in some negatives there, but in summary (and on balance), there were positives also;

1) The views from the 47th floor are excellent. From aspect 05, views both down the marina and a majority of the JBR coast line.

2) The lower 1 bed views lower down on aspect 12 are particularly good also, with wide angle views across to the Palm, due to the dual carriage way road layout at the back.

3) The show apartment insides are very basic, low grade, certainly not 5 star as sold to us. I was quite disappointed with them. Finish is terrible and would not be approved in the UK.

4) There is an aweful lot still to do in a very short space of time inside. I wish them luck on this. My money is on between Sep 2010 and Jan 2011 for completion above floor 50.

Regards

The Torch

Hi Torch

I wish that could have disclosed the 4 points. Without these your post is difficult to properly asses.

Could someone please post or PM me Paul Brady's contact details?

Many Thanks

^^
Sorry, I don't know how to post the quote properly!

They advise the letter is not legal enough to constitute that the properties will not be ready by the June 09 which is in the contract, the contract will only be proved once this point in time has passed..... W.T.F, the letters from the f**king developer themselves. I can see their point, but come on, be real !!! :bash:

Could someone please post or PM me Paul Brady's contact details?

Many Thanks

Some contact details, fax and email at least on the Select Group letter of the 29th Jan, or

Emaar Business Park, Building 4, 2nd Floor, Office 205, Sheikh Zayed Road,
Dubai, UAE.
Tel: +971 4 368 3355
F: +971 4 368 3344
E-mail: info@select-group.ae
www.select-group.ae

^^
The e-mail I've got for Paul Brady is the one that was on the letter they sent us telling us about the penalty payments. It's ccdxb@select-group.ae

Before using this forum I used another Dubai property Site for a long time.

At present all the threads are really depressing, with worried people getting cheated in their investments.

One thread I've seen relates to investors who though they would get their money back from the developer(Nakheel).They never,they got CREDIT NOTES
instead to the value.

Is it possible that we may be issued the same as........15.2 states that the refund of all amounts paid by the buyer on account of the Purchase Price.

On account of the Purchase Price?


Also I've now seen the sharks out on the same fourm trying to purchase credit notes less at least 30%


Whats everyone's though's

Before using this forum I used another Dubai property Site for a long time.

At present all the threads are really depressing, with worried people getting cheated in their investments.

One thread I've seen relates to investors who though they would get their money back from the developer(Nakheel).They never,they got CREDIT NOTES
instead to the value.

Is it possible that we may be issued the same as........15.2 states that the refund of all amounts paid by the buyer on account of the Purchase Price.

On account of the Purchase Price?


Also I've now seen the sharks out on the same fourm trying to purchase credit notes less at least 30%


Whats everyone's though's

You DO NOT have to accept Credit Notes.

Nakheel Credit Notes are not legal tender in UAE.

Currency
The official currency is the UAE dirham (Dh). One dirham is divided into 100 fils. Notes come in denominations of five, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 and 1000. Coins are Dh 1, 50 fils, 25 fils, 10 fils and 5 fils. The government has issued new coins that are smaller than the old ones. Both types remain legal tender.

The UAE dirham is fully convertible and pegged to the US dollar at a current exchange rate of US$ = Dh 3.67.

If only Select offered a 6 or 12 month payment holiday option from Jul 09 or Jan 2010 until occupation instead of that silly token compensation then people would not be talking of getting a refund and the Torch may actually complete. They can give the LPP compensation to the SPP guys then, I know all the LPP guys would prefer that. All LPP buyers are interested in defering payment rather than collecting any compensation.

If only Select offered a 6 or 12 month payment holiday option from Jul 09 or Jan 2010 until occupation instead of that silly token compensation then people would not be talking of getting a refund and the Torch may actually complete. They can give the LPP compensation to the SPP guys then, I know all the LPP guys would prefer that. All LPP buyers are interested in defering payment rather than collecting any compensation.

I totally agree, why can't SP see this.

I was worried too about the fact that it didn't mention that they had to return payments made if either side terminated on 30 June (although I thought it must be implied), but I got written confirmation from Paul Brady that money will be returned if we terminate. He also said that we had to wait until 30 June and can't do it now. But I would be interested in getting a lawyer's opinion on whether we are entitled to get it returned now, because they have already stated that it won't be ready by that date.

I very much hope we're not going to have to go through the 'we can't entertain a request for cancellation prior to 30 June' comedy. In the letter dated 29 January 2009, the developer very clearly moved the anticipated completion date from September 2009 to the end of January 2010, so there is no doubt that they are 'unable to give possession and occupation' of the units by 30 June 2009.

However, if they do respond to anyone's Termination Notice to the effect of 'come back on 30 June', all you need do is write to them to say 'please either confirm or deny that you will be able to give possession and occupation of my unit/s by 30 June 2009; if you don't reply within seven days, in the light of your letter dated 30 June I shall assume the answer to be no'.

If they still don't give you your cheque within 20 business days, as provided for by the contract, I would put them on notice of your intention to bill them for any foreign currency losses you incur should they hold you to the 30 June date. Were I in their position, I'd rather settle now than take that risk - it won't cost them any more to do so, but it could save them the currency downside.

They advise the letter is not legal enough to constitute that the properties will not be ready by the June 09 which is in the contract, the contract will only be proved once this point in time has passed..... W.T.F, the letters from the f**king developer themselves. I can see their point, but come on, be real !!! :bash:

Unless I'm mistaken the letters are not marked 'without prejudice'; they are therefore discloseable in any court proceedings in any jurisdiction in the world. Further, they're from a director of the company and therefore a duly authorised officer.

Given that the letters are moving the anticipated completion date from September - so already past 30 June - to next January, it would be an act of remarkable bad faith on the developer's part now to disclaim liability for immediate refunds (well, 20 business days) under 15.3, to the point that if they even tried to do this to me I would have no further dialogue with them.

If this is the way it's going, I'm for going for the jugular. I've already put together a distribution list for my first press release. Interestingly, I don't believe anyone at Select knows what I do for a living, and what the consequences could be of taking me for a fool, but if they try the 'you never know, we could have your units ready for occupation by the end of June card on me, they pretty soon will be finding out...

You DO NOT have to accept Credit Notes.

Nakheel Credit Notes are not legal tender in UAE.

Currency
The official currency is the UAE dirham (Dh). One dirham is divided into 100 fils. Notes come in denominations of five, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 and 1000. Coins are Dh 1, 50 fils, 25 fils, 10 fils and 5 fils. The government has issued new coins that are smaller than the old ones. Both types remain legal tender.

The UAE dirham is fully convertible and pegged to the US dollar at a current exchange rate of US$ = Dh 3.67.



The credit notes in question are issued by Nakheel and can only be used to purchase another unit in a Nakheel development or payment towards someone elses unit purchased.

Note thats why sharks are trying to buy them less true value,for their own gain.Those who need money back quickly or those who are unable to get finance now will have no choice who to sell to the highest bidder.

I don't believe anyone at Select knows what I do for a living, ...

What do you do for a living?

probably not virgin cabin crew like you ya batty boy.:lol:

Hi Torch

I wish that could have disclosed the 4 points. Without these your post is difficult to properly asses.

Hi Foxy

I know, I would love to, however, I have agreed not to disclose the content of our meeting or the 4 points (though it doesn't take rocket science to figure out what they are likely to cover!), until Paul comes back to me formerly in writing. He is still working on trying to convince the Board and legal team that they need to move on some of the points and Giles called me this evening to say that there may be some movement possible here and light at the end of the tunnel.

As respect for Paul and Giles, I would prefer to await their response and see if we can get some movement on their current legal stance.

Hopefully you understand this is potentially to all our benefit what I am trying to negotiate with them.

I am having to bite my tongue, take the professional stance and try to make them see a little sense and that some compromise could go along way towards calming down the situation, or even putting it to bed some what.

It may prove fruitless, but at least I will feel I have tried everything within my powers and capabilities to make something positive of this situation.

Regards

The Torch

What do you do for a living?

I'd prefer not to be too specific at this stage, except to say that I have a very interesting Outlook database and it would not be in SP's interests to annoy me to the point that I felt the need to use it in furtherance of any dispute I might have with them.

I've always been careful to keep my private investments and my business life separate, but if they dared pull the 'we don't yet know that we won't complete your units by 30 June so you can't give notice under 15.3 until after that date' ruse with me, I'd break that rule.

probably not virgin cabin crew like you ya batty boy.:lol:Thats funny - made me chuckle

I'd prefer not to be too specific at this stage, except to say that I have a very interesting Outlook database and it would not be in SP's interests to annoy me to the point that I felt the need to use it in furtherance of any dispute I might have with them.

I've always been careful to keep my private investments and my business life separate, but if they dared pull the 'we don't yet know that we won't complete your units by 30 June so you can't give notice under 15.3 until after that date' ruse with me, I'd break that rule.
Will mark 30th JUNE on my calendar now --I like a good ruck :lol::lol:

probably not virgin cabin crew like you ya batty boy.:lol:

Haha, you got me there, you retarded little deliquent, now go smoke some cannabis whilst playing with your flick knife, you lil rogue.

Brilliant! I just nearly choked and spat coffee all over my desk!

probably not virgin cabin crew like you ya batty boy.:lol:

Haha, you got me there, you retarded little deliquent, now go smoke some cannabis whilst playing with your flick knife, you lil rogue.

Ouch you bitch. Nuffing rong wiv a lickle weed once in a wyle dred. Spent that 2000psf on a little nest in Brighton yet geez? Handy for Gatwick.........Please board by the REAR entrance:lol:

Shhhh. Now get to school.

Mistermark, I find it quite amusing that you, along with so many on here, have discussed every nook and cranny of every possible action (legal or otherwise) against SP or whoever they are these days - but then you withhold a simple thing like what you do for living. Anyhow, good luck with it all, hope it works out for you.

Shhhh. Now get to school.

Mistermark, I find it quite amusing that you, along with so many on here, have discussed every nook and cranny of every possible action (legal or otherwise) against SP or whoever they are these days - but then you withhold a simple thing like what you do for living. Anyhow, good luck with it all, hope it works out for you.

I can see where you're coming from. The reason is that I believe it's unprofessional to mix my business and personal matters and am reluctant to play that card unless absolutely necessary.

New here

So many nice clever persons here

kan some person explain about force major. I have letter from P B / select.

is torch will be complete

what to do next

have same problem in bay cntral

thank you

Morris will be along shortly to explain it all to you. :cheers:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2nsuahh.jpg

Taken from Atlantis

New here

So many nice clever persons here

kan some person explain about force major. I have letter from P B / select.

is torch will be complete

what to do next

have same problem in bay cntral

thank you

Force majeur is where the developer is bigger than you and can be bad and not do good work but you still have to pay him or he will use force on you.

Like the bully in the school playground who you have to give your lunch money to everyday because he is a force major and a big bad bully.

I try not to communicate directly with Giles Beswick incase he makes me do his homework:)

Ignore Morrismarina's version of Force Majeure, he is a bully too and works for SP.:runaway:

Morris will be along shortly to explain it all to you. :cheers:

Get your b*lls**t repellant ready !! LOL

http://i42.tinypic.com/2nsuahh.jpg

Taken from AtlantisWow Some lens CBG -NICE

Yeah, that and the picture also makes you say "what the f**k was the architect behind Marina Heights thinking?"

Yeah, that and the picture also makes you say "what the f**k was the architect behind Marina Heights thinking?"

A nice view of ATLANTIS from there though still ??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/3242672235_9c61912032_b.jpg

27/February/2009

The Torch

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/121/imresolt050.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5362/imresolt051.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2982/imresolt089.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8968/imresolt108.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thank you Imre. :cheers:

I count floor 55 now so I think the next one is the mech floor.

It seems that the rear of the building adjacent to Marina Pinnacle is almost fully clad up to the first mech floor. The cladding above the first mech floor seems to be easier and quicker to fit as there are no balconies in the center of the tower face.

I hope they can do this mech floor at a reasonable speed and then if they keep up the pace at 1 floor a week they may even top out before Ramadan.

27/February/2009

The Torch

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8687/imresolt106.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3927/imresolt107.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Some more from Imre at street level.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2685/imresolt096h.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1630/imresolt120.jpg

Rera to step up transparency in property market
By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: February 28, 2009, 23:05


Dubai: Huge leaps made by Dubai's Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) to ensure transparency and security are boosted in the property sector will make Dubai a more mature and stable market, an analyst says.

With rent having fallen across Dubai, many tenants are holding off signing new contracts, crossing their fingers that the updated rental index will reflect this drop in rates.

"Rent is coming down in varying degrees depending on the area. And this will come across in the rental index," Matthew Green, head of research UAE at CB Richard Ellis, told Gulf News.

However, rental rates in popular community developments, such as Jumeirah Beach Residence are likely to remain unchanged, Green said.

Rents in "investor-driven" developments, for example the Palm Jumeirah and Dubai Marina, may see decline.

Palm Jumeirah has already seen its property prices drop around 40 per cent.

Rera is waiting for all new tenancy contracts for this year to be signed before releasing the new index.

The updated index will be worked out using these new contracts, which are more likely to represent the current rental market.

"The steps Rera are making can only be positive. People have to remember this is a relatively young property market and you can't compare it to, say, London, and expect everything to be the same."

"This is another example of them [Rera] increasing transparency in the market and that is positive," Green added.

So it reads rents not to decline in JBR and then rents to fall in Dubai Marina. Work that out, this article is rubbish.

So it reads rents not to decline in JBR and then rents to fall in Dubai Marina. Work that out, this article is rubbish.

Off course rents are falling in JBR also - same as in the marina. I know as I am renting out. It is natural and properly healthly.

The Sunday Times Today 01/03/2009 [The sunday times 100 best small companies to work for] Select Property Group Number 8

Annual Sales £9.6M
Staff Numbers 73
Male/Female ratio 52:48
Average age 28
Staff Turnover 19%
Earnings £35,000 21%
Typical Job Sales Executive

The Company launched in 2004 as Dubai Select etc etc

The Sunday Times Today 01/03/2009 [The sunday times 100 best small companies to work for] Select Property Group Number 8

Annual Sales £9.6M
Staff Numbers 73
Male/Female ratio 52:48
Average age 28
Staff Turnover 19%
Earnings £35,000 21%
Typical Job Sales Executive

The Company launched in 2004 as Dubai Select etc etc

either Suday times is having a laugh or they have been taken over by the SUN group:nuts:

Could somebody post an email address where I could contact Rera/Land Department.I wish to find out if my unit has been registered.

I been trying to use a Rera web site and any emails that I have sent have been getting no replies.

Perhaps someone has a more direct link.


Thanks in advanced.

Will Select return also return the land registration fees when we terminate contracts as they have not been registered yet.

[QUOTE=Dubai_Steve;33001814]Will Select return also return the land registration fees when we terminate contracts as they have not been registered yet.[/QU

No they wont asked that Question last week & they replied that it's government money so they can't

^^ what?:ohno:
how can it be gov money if it hasnt been paid yet?

Poolview they are having a laugh. If it is not registered and they cannot give you proof of registration, in the event of them defaulting and you bieng succesful in getting a refund you will also get your 1% back aswell.

^^
I agree,
I asked them if my apartment had been registered yet, they told me that they havn't registered the torch apartments yet, they were concentrating on the point because it will be ready first

^^^^ No what I was told all money was paid into government account & was held there untill your papers come through & due to the back log with them having to do all paperwork by hand this is why there is a delay & he had to go & ask someone about this so don't know if it's more bulls**t or not

smells like bullshit.

^^^^ No what I was told all money was paid into government account & was held there untill your papers come through & due to the back log with them having to do all paperwork by hand this is why there is a delay & he had to go & ask someone about this so don't know if it's more bulls**t or not

As I mentioned on several occasions, Select Developments can use your money for all sorts of emergencies now. You have not paid your money to the developer, you have sent you money to a dodgy company set up to collect the registration fees from naive investors.

We have not yet paid our registration fee.

Torch Select will never register you, from June they can cancel your contract instead, as a preferred option.

The Sunday Times Today 01/03/2009 [The sunday times 100 best small companies to work for] Select Property Group Number 8

Annual Sales £9.6M
Staff Numbers 73
Male/Female ratio 52:48
Average age 28
Staff Turnover 19%
Earnings £35,000 21%
Typical Job Sales Executive

The Company launched in 2004 as Dubai Select etc etc

Well it would be a great company to work for. £35k earnings for mis selling misleading & lying then every telephone conversation with "I'll have to look into that & get back to you" cos they dont know anything abouts whats really going on about the development. I say either send them over to Dubai as labourers to help make up for lost time on the project or reduce their earnings to more like £16k P.A as thats what customer services staff get up north & that is what they behave like. Money saved could off set our quarterly payments

Well it would be a great company to work for. £35k earnings for mis selling misleading & lying then every telephone conversation with "I'll have to look into that & get back to you" cos they dont know anything abouts whats really going on about the development. I say either send them over to Dubai as labourers to help make up for lost time on the project or reduce their earnings to more like £16k P.A as thats what customer services staff get up north & that is what they behave like. Money saved could off set our quarterly payments

Would you like to explain :dunno: You sound very intelligent :cheers:

The Tourch Tower ---- Torch Selet Ltd O.F, Nour Khan (Owner) / Select Group

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/template.jsp?pageID=10014&&lang=0

35k per month sounds ok:lol:

Has anyone had any success yet at getting the delay compensation increased beyond the 6 months the developer offered?
I don't mind admitting here that my unilateral attempt to get an improvement has failed - twice! I asked for the developer to reconsider the first rejection and he agreed to do so at the next Monday meeting. I received an e-mail this morning stating that it's been looked at again and there is no possibility of an improvement beyond the original 6 months offer.

Can we Select Property/Group investors in the various developments join forces?

I am thinking that if we all went on payment strike then maybe, just maybe someone in RERA will notice?

^^
What would worry me about going on payment strike is if we want to terminate the contract at the end of June and they say we can't because we haven't fulfilled the terms of our contract.

Correct, you will not be able to terminate if you have been late or witheld payments. I have already had that confirmed by SP.

What floor level are we on now?
How many more floors to the next mechanical floor?
Any more visible cladding/glazing?

03/March/2009

The Torch

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5974/imresolt437.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt437.jpg)

05/March/2009

Dubai Marina , tallest block

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7962/imresolt69.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt69.jpg)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7428/imresolt71.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt71.jpg)

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9463/imresolt72.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt72.jpg)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8724/imresolt80.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt80.jpg)

Great shots imre again. Can someone be so kind as to post floor layouts of the rear road side above the swimming pool.

Great pics Imre, many thanks. Looks like Alu cladding is well underway on the MH side.

Is the next floor mechanical?

..

Can we Select Property/Group investors in the various developments join forces?



^^^^Think thats a great Idea if you look at all the other threads to do with DS projects they are all having the same problems.If we all complained together either DS or RERA would have to take notice, as it is we are all in splinter groups with limited powers coupled with the F**k YOU attitude that DS has means that we are just going around in circles & getting nowhere

:bash::nuts: get this to work sometime

:bash::nuts: get this to work sometime



I've given notice and asked for my money back.They say that they won't accept any notices until after 30th June.

If everyone gave in their notice now,even though SP won't accept it,it would let them know what may happen come July.

SP could not afford to pay back say,100 units,therefore they may think about better offers in line with interest,and stage payments.

Would people open theirs eyes.This project will never be finished in under 10 months.

No chance whats so ever.Certain,certain,certain.

I don't want to even attempt to second guess the financial position of the select group, but is it really worth stirring up a hornets nest? I cant believe people are actually wanting to hand back property at this stage. It is a pain when you expected the project to be completed and earning you money, but if you really expected a project of this scale to be completed on time in a virgin market, you are very short sighted. All this is going to take is a little patience. Give it a couple of years and we all will be reaping the rewards. Dubai was going to be nothing but a gamble from the start. We all have to be grateful that there is still progress on site. If you didn't budget for possible delays then maybe you should never have invested in the first place

I don't want to even attempt to second guess the financial position of the select group, but is it really worth stirring up a hornets nest? I cant believe people are actually wanting to hand back property at this stage. It is a pain when you expected the project to be completed and earning you money, but if you really expected a project of this scale to be completed on time in a virgin market, you are very short sighted. All this is going to take is a little patience. Give it a couple of years and we all will be reaping the rewards. Dubai was going to be nothing but a gamble from the start. We all have to be grateful that there is still progress on site. If you didn't budget for possible delays then maybe you should never have invested in the first place



All very,very good and true points you have made Saggy.

The biggest problem of all will come from investors who don't read these posts, but are put under pressure from world wide economies.

SP have not accepted the problems other's may have and are doing little to help.

This creates a huge worry for me that others may force SP into money problems and force them to go BUST.Prehaps running away with whatever money they can get their hands on and forcing all their development into standstill.

Many developers in Dubai have already done this and investors are still looking for them.

If I can get my money back ASAP I'll sleep better at night.

SP are to convident in their actions and for me their are buying time before running off.

Why not give investors some convidence and not stupid letter stating we will be finished in Jan 10 when we all no that's impossible.

I don't want to even attempt to second guess the financial position of the select group, but is it really worth stirring up a hornets nest? I cant believe people are actually wanting to hand back property at this stage. It is a pain when you expected the project to be completed and earning you money, but if you really expected a project of this scale to be completed on time in a virgin market, you are very short sighted. All this is going to take is a little patience. Give it a couple of years and we all will be reaping the rewards. Dubai was going to be nothing but a gamble from the start. We all have to be grateful that there is still progress on site. If you didn't budget for possible delays then maybe you should never have invested in the first place

:applause:

All very,very good and true points you have made Saggy.

The biggest problem of all will come from investors who don't read these posts, but are put under pressure from world wide economies.

SP have not accepted the problems other's may have and are doing little to help.

This creates a huge worry for me that others may force SP into money problems and force them to go BUST.Prehaps running away with whatever money they can get their hands on and forcing all their development into standstill.

Many developers in Dubai have already done this and investors are still looking for them.

If I can get my money back ASAP I'll sleep better at night.

SP are to convident in their actions and for me their are buying time before running off.

Why not give investors some convidence and not stupid letter stating we will be finished in Jan 10 when we all no that's impossible.

You say MANY have done this can you list them? Try Nytol to help your sleep issues or better still leave your money in your bank.

I hear another letter is being drafted to clarify 15.3. Anyone else heard the same?

I don't want to even attempt to second guess the financial position of the select group, but is it really worth stirring up a hornets nest? I cant believe people are actually wanting to hand back property at this stage. It is a pain when you expected the project to be completed and earning you money, but if you really expected a project of this scale to be completed on time in a virgin market, you are very short sighted. All this is going to take is a little patience. Give it a couple of years and we all will be reaping the rewards. Dubai was going to be nothing but a gamble from the start. We all have to be grateful that there is still progress on site. If you didn't budget for possible delays then maybe you should never have invested in the first place
Quite right but i can see the point that SP may be pushed into offering better payment scheules if many people gave notice --in reality don't think many folks will

From online meetings so far of 50 or so buyers, ALL LPP buyers (apart from 1 or 2) are intending to give notice to terminate in June but have not contacted Select yet as they are awaiting the outcome of initial meetings with Select regarding payment terms. I imagine also that many who are not part of the online groups will also be in a similar situation.

^^ thats gonna bum everyone else who wants too keep there unit.. construction might even stop?

You say MANY have done this can you list them? Try Nytol to help your sleep issues or better still leave your money in your bank.




totally property.com

Log in to this site and read threads from the start of the year.

Used to be a great site,now a scary site.Read about developers going AWOL.

Read about ceo's in jail.Read about investors meeting's.Read about cancellation's.


Alot of the posts are about larger developers than SP.Just remember SP has never completed any developments yet.Never been in this position before,never gained any respect from anyone yet.

If their getting on so well why will they not allow photo's to be taken of the apartments inside.Give them notice and their let you look around,but remember they have snagged your apartment before you turn up.

Some ot their pictures look like the inside of holstels.


Sorry for the typing error everyone.Posts makes more sense now.

^^ thats gonna bum everyone else who wants too keep there unit.. construction might even stop?

Yes correct but that depends on Select's decision.

From online meetings so far of 50 or so buyers, ALL LPP buyers (apart from 1 or 2) are intending to give notice to terminate in June but have not contacted Select yet as they are awaiting the outcome of initial meetings with Select regarding payment terms. I imagine also that many who are not part of the online groups will also be in a similar situation.

Well done all! :applause:

What they have done on instigating FM is unbelievable. Don't let them get away with it. You all have my full support, and if I can help in anyway just send me a pm.

I have a bad feeling that they will repeat this devious plan of action against Bay Central investors.

From online meetings so far of 50 or so buyers, ALL LPP buyers (apart from 1 or 2) are intending to give notice to terminate in June but have not contacted Select yet as they are awaiting the outcome of initial meetings with Select regarding payment terms. I imagine also that many who are not part of the online groups will also be in a similar situation.



Where can I find the online group meetings.Thanks

totally property.com

Log in to this site and read threads from the start of the year.

Used to be a great site,now a scary site.Read about developers going AWOL.

Read about ceo's in jail.Read about investors meeting's.Read about cancellation's.


Alot of the posts are about larger developers than SP.Just remember SP has never completed any developments yet.Never been in this position before,never gained any respect from anyone yet.

If their getting on so well why will they now allow photo's to be taken of the apartments inside.Give them notice and their let you look around,but remember they have snagged your apartment before you turn up.

Some ot their pictures look like the inside of holstels.

You are wrong, they will not let you look around and take photos, you try.

From online meetings so far of 50 or so buyers, ALL LPP buyers (apart from 1 or 2) are intending to give notice to terminate in June but have not contacted Select yet as they are awaiting the outcome of initial meetings with Select regarding payment terms. I imagine also that many who are not part of the online groups will also be in a similar situation.

Depending on the OP these will a good buy if SP let them back into the market at same price because the LTPP is a good way of financing seeing as it is very difficult to get ANY finance these days here OR in DUBAI
- or I guess they could keep them now and just rent out either way everyone wins -investors can repatriate money and gain on excnage rates and hopefully THE TORCH will be able to be funded because most of projected income will be on LTPP which I presume most has 50% OR 60% to be paid still ?

I don't want to even attempt to second guess the financial position of the select group, but is it really worth stirring up a hornets nest? I cant believe people are actually wanting to hand back property at this stage. It is a pain when you expected the project to be completed and earning you money, but if you really expected a project of this scale to be completed on time in a virgin market, you are very short sighted. All this is going to take is a little patience. Give it a couple of years and we all will be reaping the rewards. Dubai was going to be nothing but a gamble from the start. We all have to be grateful that there is still progress on site. If you didn't budget for possible delays then maybe you should never have invested in the first place

I don't see why you're surprised. Speaking personally, I reserved my first units in May 2005 with a three-year completion schedule. Realistically, it's going to take twice that time. Letting that go without compensation is quite some concession to expect me to make.

Due to the current financial situation, I can hand back my Torch units and get close to being able to replace them with completed units in other developments that will generate an immediate yield. That's tempting.

Meanwhile, the developer is having to pretend it hasn't written to us putting completion back to Jan 2010 in order to maintain the fiction that it could hand them over by the end of June 2009 to get out of handing money back sooner. This makes me worry about the developer's solvency and ability to complete the project.

Putting these factors together, I'm actually surprised there's anyone who hasn't yet served notice of termination under clause 15.3 of the sale and purchase agreement and prefers to hang on in the hopes the project will one day complete.

From online meetings so far of 50 or so buyers, ALL LPP buyers (apart from 1 or 2) are intending to give notice to terminate in June but have not contacted Select yet as they are awaiting the outcome of initial meetings with Select regarding payment terms. I imagine also that many who are not part of the online groups will also be in a similar situation.

I for one have already given notice on my three units. There's no need to wait until June - clause 15.3 simply says 'if the developer is unable to give possession and occupation by 30 June 2009...'.

If the developer refuses to repay my or anyone else's money until after 30 June, you'd have to ask why. Are they dishonest, insolvent, or both? Will the money ever turn up, even after that date has come and gone?

I've told Mark and Giles at Select Property that if my termination notice isn't honoured in a timely fashion there will be consequences. Time will tell how the developer decides to play this.

You are wrong, they will not let you look around and take photos, you try.

Sorry Charlie I've fixed the typing error.

I for one have already given notice on my three units. There's no need to wait until June - clause 15.3 simply says 'if the developer is unable to give possession and occupation by 30 June 2009...'.

If the developer refuses to repay my or anyone else's money until after 30 June, you'd have to ask why. Are they dishonest, insolvent, or both? Will the money ever turn up, even after that date has come and gone?

I've told Mark and Giles at Select Property that if my termination notice isn't honoured in a timely fashion there will be consequences. Time will tell how the developer decides to play this.



SP are now advertising resales for £189,000.How long will it take to resell these units.Complete contracts etc.Does everyone understand what the real estate market in Dubai is like at the moment.

If anyone gets their unit in the 3rd quarter of 2010,would take alot of work.

2010 for a load of under 3* junk.

I for one have already given notice on my three units. There's no need to wait until June - clause 15.3 simply says 'if the developer is unable to give possession and occupation by 30 June 2009...'.

If the developer refuses to repay my or anyone else's money until after 30 June, you'd have to ask why. Are they dishonest, insolvent, or both? Will the money ever turn up, even after that date has come and gone?

I've told Mark and Giles at Select Property that if my termination notice isn't honoured in a timely fashion there will be consequences. Time will tell how the developer decides to play this.

From what Talks said, they are refusing to accept notice until after 30 June.

Well I certainly hope that all of you who are trying to bring the ship down with you fail, as some investors are now on the final straight, 1 more year:cheers:

The issue with 02 unit size hasn't cleared up, SP don't understand why 12 sqm is missing from size & will contact TS for clarification.

& yes anjam I've heard of the 15.3 amendment:banana:, Great if its agreed as it would stop me continuing with my solicitor

^^
What amendment are they making to 15.3?

Anjam or Shaffar.

Please can you share details of this ammendment as I have not heard (although been out of the loop for a few weeks) thanks.

Well I certainly hope that all of you who are trying to bring the ship down with you fail, as some investors are now on the final straight, 1 more year:cheers:

The issue with 02 unit size hasn't cleared up, SP don't understand why 12 sqm is missing from size & will contact TS for clarification.

& yes anjam I've heard of the 15.3 amendment:banana:, Great if its agreed as it would stop me going to a solicitor

One more year? Do you seriously believe that?

The rumour is that the developer will write to us to interpret 15.3 in a way that lets them off the hook of having to pay us until after 30 July, not that they're going to 'amend' the clause. They can't do that - not even Torch Select could unilaterally rewrite a key part of a contract, several years after it was signed - could they?

Jeffers, While some are fighting to give back their units, others want to make sure that SP/TS does not under FM take back theirs.
An Amendment would cancel both parties rights to property return, but also not limit SP/YS to 6 months penalty payment only

^^
Surely they can only amend this clause if the purchaser agrees to it?

From what Talks said, they are refusing to accept notice until after 30 June.

Why do they want to wait until June until they return the money or allow buyers to terminate. How does that help them?

Jeffers, While some are fighting to give back their units, others want to make sure that SP/TS does not under FM take back theirs.
An Amendment would cancel both parties rights to property return, but also not limit SP/YS to 6 months penalty payment only

They CANNOT just change a legal contract... you will have to accept it, those that want to hand back units will not accept the ammendment, those that want to keep and improve on comms need to accept it.. but we will only know once this has been announced which bearing in mind this is Select might be never !

One more year? Do you seriously believe that?

The rumour is that the developer will write to us to interpret 15.3 in a way that lets them off the hook of having to pay us until after 30 July, not that they're going to 'amend' the clause. They can't do that - not even Torch Select could unilaterally rewrite a key part of a contract, several years after it was signed - could they?


I think whats causing them concern is that they don't know where the bottom of the barrel is with the hand-backs, they probably need to budget for the few who will hand back & guarantee the rest (like me) who are interested in the completion of TT, this way we can move forward. & off-course both parties need to agree to 15.3 being amended

Why do they want to wait until June until they return the money or allow buyers to terminate. How does that help them?

I think it's what Shaffar said. They don't know how many people will exercise their rights under this clause and may not have the means to pay them all out.

When I served notice it was purely as a defensive measure, in case good faith negotiations towards another solution were unsuccessful. Now they're trying to deny purchasers their rights under this clause, I'm forced to conclude they're in a tight spot financially and I have to ask myself whether the project will ever complete.

So my position is now 'give me my money back, within 20 business days, as I'm entitled to under clause 15.3. Once the funds have cleared, if you'd like to keep me as a customer, let's talk - maybe there's a deal to be done, who knows. But I'm talking to you until you've made good on 15.3. If you can't, or won't, things will get quite tough for a bit, because it'll be every man for himself, and I'll be doing what it takes to ensure I get paid out.'

Why do they want to wait until June until they return the money or allow buyers to terminate. How does that help them?

We at Bay Central have a payment to make on 1st June 2009. I think they must be waiting for the funds to come in, so that the returned units funds can go out.

I also agree that they have no real idea of how many units will be handed back, and therefore they must be planning for a worst case scenario. If not they should be...

FWIW I do hope that funds are not that tight as you say otherwise its a real worry.

Please can one of you with Torch Knowledge please answer this asap. The Torch viewed from The GH floors 23 to 65 all 2 beds what are the appt numbers on this elevation from left to right?

Please can one of you with Torch Knowledge please answer this asap. The Torch viewed from The GH floors 23 to 65 all 2 beds what are the appt numbers on this elevation from left to right?
Talk to SP the may have a few to sell before long !!
LOL - sorry I have to laugh or i'd cry !!!

Please can one of you with Torch Knowledge please answer this asap. The Torch viewed from The GH floors 23 to 65 all 2 beds what are the appt numbers on this elevation from left to right?


If by GH you mean Grosvenor House then it's 05 & 06 units I think.

http://i39.tinypic.com/15gpe0g.jpg

Thanks HT. So stood on the balcony of 06 or 07 you would be looking at the Habtoor grand? In your opinion what would be the most sort after appt on the floorplan above?

02 :lol:

Thanks HT. So stood on the balcony of 06 or 07 you would be looking at the Habtoor grand? In your opinion what would be the most sort after appt on the floorplan above?

units 05 will get view all the way down the marina, looking slightly right towards the sea and will catch the sunset, and a great view of infinity. 05 being on Marina Heights side of the building but on the elevationfacing the marina.

Many thanks Jeffers.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2z7rknl.jpg

Shaffer thats from an 02. Not so f...ing funny now is it.
CBG think thats 1 & 8 actually and over 60th residential floor you may get view over Le Reve (I think ) which would be quite nice - are you buying one ?

APOLOGIES -CBG that is 02 and yes what view ! - won't be the most expensive either - good investment at 1000/1200 aed psf ? or less ?

I have no idea why your taken the piss out of 02, long term, all empty plots developed, it will be the best f*****g view you get from TT

Thanks for photo, view much better than I first thought:lol:

07/march/2009

The Torch

http://i40.tinypic.com/352j2fk.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/29zv5tf.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1195e95.jpg

07/march/2009

The Torch

http://i40.tinypic.com/352j2fk.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/29zv5tf.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1195e95.jpg

is it me or is the torch taking on a decidedly pisan appearance?:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Anybody got any shots from the 01 Units?
From Imre's pics(awesome as usual) I think we are on the mechanical floor.

Do the signs showing the floor numbers correspond with the apartment numbers or is there a 6 floor difference due to the re-design?

is it me or is the torch taking on a decidedly pisan appearance?:lol::lol::lol::lol:

what will you say now ?:)

http://i44.tinypic.com/sl6551.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/21dc8n.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/34j7u5y.jpg

I think there are 4 podium floors followed by the pool& gym so basically 5 floors before the apartments start.

There is a 6 floor difference due to the fact there is 1 ground floor and 4 podium levels as well as a health deck level. (6 in total before residential floors begin)

So if you have appartment number 48** then this will be Construction floor level 54** or floor 54 sign plate put up on the concrete balconies by DCE.

That's my understanding anyway.

There is a 6 floor difference due to the fact there is 1 ground floor and 4 podium levels as well as a health deck level. (6 in total before residential floors begin)

So if you have appartment number 48** then this will be Construction floor level 54** or floor 54 sign plate put up on the concrete balconies by DCE.

That's my understanding anyway.

Is this why if your having a drink in the Harbour Hotel and Residence on floor 52 your are looking down, by some way, at the top of the Torch (54?) and Le Rive at around 40 floors is also taller? maybe it is all a trick of the light.

When I bought on floor 6 that was the first residential floor then they decided to make the first 6 residential floors fractional ownership (timeshare) so we all got bumped up 6 floors so now my apartment will still be called 606 but I will actually be on the floor with 12 written on it.

I think this is right, is it?

Is this why if your having a drink in the Harbour Hotel and Residence on floor 52 your are looking down, by some way, at the top of the Torch (54?) and Le Rive at around 40 floors is also taller? maybe it is all a trick of the light.

Yes, You are refering to the pics here i think.

http://i42.tinypic.com/nwaqvs.jpg
Taken from floor 52 Harbour Hotel 19 02 09

20/February/2009

The Torch



http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9062/imresolt004ye8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)



The first pic is taken from floor 52 of the Emirates harbour hotel and is, as you say looking down onto construction floor 52 of the Torch.

Construction floor 52 is however residential floor 46 (as i understand it). So the same photo taken when the Torch is level should be construction floor 58 (residential floor 52).

This is asuming the two towers have the same floor heights of 3.65 meters, which seems to be the stndard in Dubai from my limited experience.

Sheltie, i have no idea about this fractional ownership issue and i hope to one day wake up and be told that all this talk of timeshare clients from burnage and mossside sharing my swimming pool and gymnasium is a horrible dream due to too much LSD consumption when i was at uni. :cheers:

Been on site, all apartments types on most floors. Gone to the top and walked down. Will report back soon with photos. :cheers:

Yes, we all got offered the chance to buy into it and it used to be on their web site - don't know if it's still on it.

Been on site, all apartments types on most floors. Gone to the top and walked down. Will report back soon with photos. :cheers:
Christ you must have lost 2 stone doing that !!:lol::lol:

Christ you must have lost 2 stone doing that !!:lol::lol:

Or 3 stone if he grabbed a few extractor fans on the way down and threw them into the skip :banana:

Sheltie, i have no idea about this fractional ownership issue and i hope to one day wake up and be told that all this talk of timeshare clients from burnage and mossside sharing my swimming pool and gymnasium is a horrible dream due to too much LSD consumption when i was at uni. :cheers:

....... and there was I, thinking that the forum was non-elitist! :ohno:

Been on site, all apartments types on most floors. Gone to the top and walked down. Will report back soon with photos. :cheers:
Welcome to the exclusive lift rider club !!

The Torch

CBG think thats 1 & 8 actually and over 60th residential floor you may get view over Le Reve (I think ) which would be quite nice - are you buying one ?

You get a similar lower view on the lower 1 beds from aspect 12 FYI.

The Torch

08/March/2009

The Torch

http://i42.tinypic.com/6tl4rk.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/vpvxh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/n5kn51.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2ns5mbr.jpg

How did you get in to IRIS BLUE been buying again ?? LOL
Nice level for pics

''Yes, You are refering to the pics here i think.

The first pic is taken from floor 52 of the Emirates harbour hotel and is, as you say looking down onto construction floor 52 of the Torch.

Construction floor 52 is however residential floor 46 (as i understand it). So the same photo taken when the Torch is level should be construction floor 58 (residential floor 52).

This is asuming the two towers have the same floor heights of 3.65 meters, which seems to be the stndard in Dubai from my limited experience''.
-------------------------------------------------------

Thanks.. It's a close thing for me as I'm on 66th (01) floor so touch and go if I will get a good view..

Any one who goes over and has not done before I recommend you take a drink or a meal in the Harbour tower bar (on floor 52), is well worth it just to check out the view.

As for Mackie, he can afford a stone or two, ?? Mackie let's see the pics, really looking forward to it, by the way have just spent a couple of weeks at Time Place, .... a story for another time, thread..

To those of you over in Dubai, are things really as bad over there as news reports are saying?

No, they're actually worse, but most people in the UAE seem to be in some kind of denial. Understandable.

The media is making people frightened to move forward. We have 2 houses we rent out in Tenerife and we don't have one booking after March. Flights are cheap, I've put a special offer on the weeks but still no bookings. So it's not only Dubai, it's all over.

quite right

i dont think its diffrent than anywhr in the world..
just because construction boom is over...dubai is not finished....tourism is still there...

i know many families living in Dubai from last 40-50 years....they have various businesses...no one is complaining...its just slow down...which occur in any where in the world during this time....

infact here in UK, the situation is worst than you imagine....but it doesnt mean its over...its still no 1 financial centre in the world...

there are some job losses because of slow down...it doesnt mean people will run away...there are 110000 bris working in Dubai...do you think if they leave dubai and go to UK ..will they get a job??? the chances are 1 in 100..

so stop worrying about and enjoy your life...most of us are investor...some of are mature and some of are new like me...who is learning for future investment....

i bought a land 2005 in India worth around $30000...last year it was $100000 but now its about $750000...

$30000 for land in India! Which half did you buy:lol:

^^just to let you know there are many cities and towns are in india..the land prices are much much higher than dubai marina...DIFC or Central London - Canray Wharf - Liverpool Street....

$30000...you dont get much in some area...check the figures and fact....

http://www.99acres.com/D2032219

2000sq ft flat = Rs 57500000

57,500,000.00 INR = 1,104,575.97 USD
57,500,000.00 INR = 4,057,104.03 AED

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Office-rent-in-Mumbai-Delhi-among-worlds-highest/242189/

$30000 for land in India! Which half did you buy:lol:

^^ You would be surprised at the price of land in the sub-continent. I bought a smallish (2500sq ft) empty plot 5 years ago for £10,000 and I am getting offers over £60,000. I also built a house on a similar sized plot, total cost £35,000. Now worth over £200,000. Go Figure.......

Having said that if you think investing in Dubai was risky you can forget the sub-continent.

It is not unknown for a building to pop-up overnight on your plot and the resulting court case lasting 3 generations.

It is not unknown for a building to pop-up overnight on your plot and the resulting court case lasting 3 generations.

Are those Germans at it again building those Huf Haus !!!!!

I've just come back from Dubai, and a 2 bed rental still cost me around £2000 for a couple of weeks? so all not lost yet. My one bed that was under offer for 1.5 AED 6 months ago now won't sell at 1 mil AED. It is still rented and I have offers for both short and long term once it come up for rental in a month or two.

The roads and shopping parking ext was quite quiet and I heard around 20% of expats have been sacked and sent home (plenty of unclaimed cars and boats being repossessed by the banks?) I would say apartment prices are down around 30% and rental down around 20% or so.

As people have said, much the same world wide. I saw in Dubai that most buildings that have not started have been shelved but a lot of stuff that is above ground is going up with some pace, partly due to extra manpower and available cheaper building materials and the developers wanting to get money out of the investors.

For me now is the time to hold out (and buy if you have cash, as no one is lending). I went in two this with my eyes wide open and expected a few years delay, if it is ready next year some time I would be satisfied.

As for Spain I thought that was dead years ago? I have a place in the South of France and the bookings are going strong.. just need to try a bit harder and reduce prices a bit in a dipping market.

I think 12 / 18 months and we will be out of it, following on the coat tails of the US.