^^

Plus interest at 1% + LIBOR

My understanding from RERA is that a full refund is possible should the developer fail to register the apartment.

You are correct.

Case law now exists in Dubai, and a precident has been set by the Dubai Property courts that makes it very clear.

If a developer fails to register a property then a FULL refund is due to the investor.

Mistermark should be happy then.

You are correct.

Case law now exists in Dubai, and a precident has been set by the Dubai Property courts that makes it very clear.

If a developer fails to register a property then a FULL refund is due to the investor.

In this case SP should comment then where are you Giles ??
- this is not right I will stick up for SP for so long but this needs sorting and NOW please

Honestly, there are units on Dubizzle and with agents, listed at asking prices of AED 850 or thereabouts. They're real, and I've viewed a couple so far.

One thing I have found though is this: quite often the lowest prices per square foot are for apartments that are large relative to the number of bedrooms. I think this is because people buy property in Dubai on a per square foot basis but rent it on a bedrooms basis. So, for instance, a 1100 sq ft one-bed rents for the same figure as a 900 sq ft one. If you pay the same price per square foot for it, you end up with a lower yield. So some of the cheaper apartments turn out to be large relative to the number of rooms - which is great if you plan to live there, but bad for letting.

One silver lining with SP apartments is that on the whole they are smaller than most --so will retain relatively high price psf resale values AND as you state tenants generally rent by bedroom number and not by size

Does anyone know the name of the Law company that took the construction company to court and won it's client all his money back and 9% interest.
Under Dubai Law 13 article 3. Got a funny feeling they might be very busy soon.

Can someone explain why the Torch apartments have not been registered with the land registry yet?!

Hi Steve

And what reliable source did the info come from?

Al

sensational journalism now deleted ;=)

^^ stop giving that Hari idiot more air time with his sensationalist rubbish, it has been posted many times on other threads already.

Caio can you delete this bollocks.

dont know how the kitchens are going in the torch but heres a picture of chelseatowers

http://i44.tinypic.com/4j9uli.jpg

Looks like the next floor has been completed, (floor 57 I think).

Floor 61 will represent 75% of the structure as being complete. As the Torch is in fact 81 floors in total.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2ykceg9.jpg

You are correct.

Case law now exists in Dubai, and a precident has been set by the Dubai Property courts that makes it very clear.

If a developer fails to register a property then a FULL refund is due to the investor.

Mister Mark - did you find out anything about this when you were over in Dubai? How did meeting with SP go - do you think they'll return money after 30 June?

14/April/2009

The Torch

http://i41.tinypic.com/2agw1w7.jpg

14/April/2009

The Torch

http://i40.tinypic.com/3343j8x.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/fjkkdu.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/htikib.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/n6pzwk.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/14jvuvo.jpg

Great shots Imre, thank you.

Looks like we're on the home straight.

Thanks Imre

Mister Mark - did you find out anything about this when you were over in Dubai? How did meeting with SP go - do you think they'll return money after 30 June?

I think it'd be wrong of me to relate verbatim how the meeting went, because although neither they nor I said it would be a confidential meeting, by the same token I didn't say I'd report it word for word here.

That said, the short version is that I met Paul Brady, who turns out to be an affable Irishman aged I'm guessing about 50, whose responsibilities seem to centre on liaising with buyers, whether it be over instalments on projects in build or service charges and maintenance on delivered units, and also in talking to RERA, and Adam Price, Sales Director of Select Property in the UK.

It's the developer's position that the SPA entitles them to withhold refunds until after 30 June. They say RERA supports, and in fact is insisting on, this interpretation, but they can't/won't provide documentary evidence of this to me.

I asked them for written assurances from themselves and RERA that if I paid the LPP instalments up to 30 June and issued a termination notice on 1 July that I'd get my money back. They said they're happy to do a letter from themselves but it would say any refund would be subject to RERA approval; as to whether they can get a letter from RERA saying they'd grant that approval, they'll ask, but I get the feeling they're not hopeful.

The overall feeling I get is that because Dubai hasn't asked its developers to fund construction from their own resources but instead to use staged payments from customers, a clause such as 15.3 in a sales contract can give a developer a problem if a project is heavily delayed and cancellation requests start to roll in. Whether RERA was prepared to do an ultimately immoral act and protect a developer against its own sales and purchase agreement to increase the chances of a project being completed, I don't know.

My current feeling is that the Torch probably will get built, completion first half of 2011, but having spent much of the past two days looking at apartments for sale, I can't see a single reason why anyone who bought at the OP would want to hang in to find out if the developer will honour the refunds. There are completed units in better projects, rentable immediately, with no risk of non-completion, for lower prices.

Our email from bhomes in Oct....(and the situation has deteriorated dramatically since then, also bear in mind that the actual sale prices are typically well below the asking price)

Thank you for your enquiry.



Below is the latest sale in The Torch. The unit is under offer so does represent a realistic comparison for you. We would need to allow for the fact that this unit is on the 36th floor but assuming the size / views are similar then I would recommend an asking price of AED 1,200,000. Our fee is 3% and is added to the sales price making the marketing price AED 1,236,000.

I would ask BetterHomes if these units have ACTUALLY been sold

This is what I got from bhomes at the start of Jan 09 re torch resales. No idea what the situation really is now but I hear the resale market is picking up again. I would prefer to try and sale my unit at above original price than get a refund at original price.


We have a number of units available is this building and the 2 bedroom apartments currently start from AED 1,700,000 for a 33rd floor, 1,280 sq. ft. apartment. I will send you details of these units in a separate mail. We have also had 2 recent sales (November 2008) a 36th floor 1,270 sq ft sea view for AED 1,300,000 and a 54th floor 1,301 sq ft. partial sea view for AED 1,700,000.
The correct pricing of your unit along with effective marketing will be key in finding a buyer for you. I would recommend marketing your apartment around the AED 1,600,000 - AED 1,700,000 mark.
As you are no doubt aware, the property market worldwide has taken a downturn. It is now more important than ever to ensure that if you are selling your unit that you have a competitive edge and that your unit stands out amongst the others being offered for sale. The better the marketing then the better the chances are of finding a buyer.

My current feeling is that the Torch probably will get built, completion first half of 2011, but having spent much of the past two days looking at apartments for sale, I can't see a single reason why anyone who bought at the OP would want to hang in to find out if the developer will honour the refunds. There are completed units in better projects, rentable immediately, with no risk of non-completion, for lower prices.

What you seem to forget is even if people got refunds on there money they would struggle to buy a completed unit in Marina as most buyers bought on the LPP. Getting finance in Dubai still isnt easy.

However I'm more optimistic than you I have been to Dubai recently and there is activity in the market. You claim alot of completed properties in Marina cheaper than OP of Torch. Well put an offer on the table, as soon as you do the Sellor will demnad more and many estate agents will tell you this!

^^ yeah you tell him arfie and not only that, look how impressed these guys on the boat are, looking up in awe at the mighty Torch :lol:

http://i43.tinypic.com/1z3cf12.jpg

^^ yeah you tell him arfie and not only that, look how impressed these guys on the boat are, looking up in awe at the mighty Torch :lol:

http://i43.tinypic.com/1z3cf12.jpg

Oh dear... (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nK09cyL8Ihw/SMlht02tozI/AAAAAAAAAcA/1ZME3BRJAzI/s400/ostrich.jpg)

Where did that last floor come from !! - moving up now - will be 1 floor every 5 days soon

- also glass going well on marina side now

-still happy with my 1100 aed psf purchase (i hope ! )

I think it'd be wrong of me to relate verbatim how the meeting went, because although neither they nor I said it would be a confidential meeting, by the same token I didn't say I'd report it word for word here.

That said, the short version is that I met Paul Brady, who turns out to be an affable Irishman aged I'm guessing about 50, whose responsibilities seem to centre on liaising with buyers, whether it be over instalments on projects in build or service charges and maintenance on delivered units, and also in talking to RERA, and Adam Price, Sales Director of Select Property in the UK.

It's the developer's position that the SPA entitles them to withhold refunds until after 30 June. They say RERA supports, and in fact is insisting on, this interpretation, but they can't/won't provide documentary evidence of this to me.

I asked them for written assurances from themselves and RERA that if I paid the LPP instalments up to 30 June and issued a termination notice on 1 July that I'd get my money back. They said they're happy to do a letter from themselves but it would say any refund would be subject to RERA approval; as to whether they can get a letter from RERA saying they'd grant that approval, they'll ask, but I get the feeling they're not hopeful.

The overall feeling I get is that because Dubai hasn't asked its developers to fund construction from their own resources but instead to use staged payments from customers, a clause such as 15.3 in a sales contract can give a developer a problem if a project is heavily delayed and cancellation requests start to roll in. Whether RERA was prepared to do an ultimately immoral act and protect a developer against its own sales and purchase agreement to increase the chances of a project being completed, I don't know.

My current feeling is that the Torch probably will get built, completion first half of 2011, but having spent much of the past two days looking at apartments for sale, I can't see a single reason why anyone who bought at the OP would want to hang in to find out if the developer will honour the refunds. There are completed units in better projects, rentable immediately, with no risk of non-completion, for lower prices.



Can you give us any info on the units being registered with the Land Department.

My current feeling is that the Torch probably will get built, completion first half of 2011, but having spent much of the past two days looking at apartments for sale, I can't see a single reason why anyone who bought at the OP would want to hang in to find out if the developer will honour the refunds. There are completed units in better projects, rentable immediately, with no risk of non-completion, for lower prices.

Mistermark. What do you base 2011 completion on?

Where did that last floor come from !! - moving up now - will be 1 floor every 5 days soon

- also glass going well on marina side now

-still happy with my 1100 aed psf purchase (i hope ! )

You got ripped off ThePoint :lol:

The Torch

What you seem to forget is even if people got refunds on there money they would struggle to buy a completed unit in Marina as most buyers bought on the LPP. Getting finance in Dubai still isnt easy.

However I'm more optimistic than you I have been to Dubai recently and there is activity in the market. You claim alot of completed properties in Marina cheaper than OP of Torch. Well put an offer on the table, as soon as you do the Sellor will demnad more and many estate agents will tell you this!

Arfie

I recently came back from Dubai.

There are lots of completed apartments for sale, however, what I found is they tend to be around 20% higher price than OP. Also, typically not as good a view as what I experienced stood in my apartment on the 45+ floor!!

It's a balancing act I guess, do you go for a lesser view/position, at a higher price, yet benefit from low risk and immediate rental income .... or .... do you hang on in there for what we all were dreaming of - a classic position, classic view ... oh ... and cheaper to boot.

Well, I think we have all come along way together (most of us have been together for a good fews years now on this blog), so if we can afford it, we might as well moan for another year or so and be done with it - I personally suggest we all forget about the build for a year, get on with life, then hey - it may be done, ready to move in!!

Then we can all start to moan about the quality, strip them all bare, put in what we like (light doors, quality kitchens/bathrooms etc...) and hey, we have what we want, fantastic roomy apartment, classic brit interior, and still a darn sight cheaper.

I'm resigned to 2011 - accept it or get of the boat is my final thoughts on the matter. SP/TS - don't for Christ sake go bust on us !!!!

The Torch

You got ripped off ThePoint :lol:

The Torch
At 7.5 aed to the £1 --I was, and am happy with my choice even if
1100aed seems a bit dear now (albeit mine is way way up on high floor )
- admittedly it would have been better cash left in the bank in DUBAI
(thank god I cashed some stuff last summer and have enough now in AED now to pay the balance on completion)
but yes --oh for a crystal ball eh should have just kept ALL the cash in the bank !!- what I could buy now READY eh ? JLT seems best value small sq ftge rentable 1 beds at 650k aed (900aedpsf)
But then JLT does not really have the appeal of DM does it or the convenience of a tram station outside like we will have at the Torch

At 7.5 aed to the £1 --I was, and am happy with my choice even if
1100aed seems a bit dear now (albeit mine is way way up on high floor )
- admittedly it would have been better cash left in the bank in DUBAI
(thank god I cashed some stuff last summer and have enough now in AED now to pay the balance on completion)
but yes --oh for a crystal ball eh should have just kept ALL the cash in the bank !!- what I could buy now READY eh ? JLT seems best value small sq ftge rentable 1 beds at 650k aed (900aedpsf)
But then JLT does not really have the appeal of DM does it or the convenience of a tram station outside like we will have at the Torch


Yer, or the trendy barasti bar boozer across the road to stagger back from :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

he he

The Torch

Yer, or the trendy barasti bar boozer across the road to stagger back from :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

he he

The TorchI would have tio get taxi too far to walk inebriated :lol:

^^ yeah you tell him arfie and not only that, look how impressed these guys on the boat are, looking up in awe at the mighty Torch :lol:

http://i43.tinypic.com/1z3cf12.jpg

Looking at their ride one can quiet easily understand how little it would take to impress these guys:lol:

Looking at their ride one can quiet easily understand how little it would take to impress these guys:lol:

Maybe, but I'll swap that ride for my current ride anytime :)

remember the good old days ..................



October 26, 2003 Sunday Sha’aban 29, 1424


Please Visit our Sponsor (Ads open in separate window)



Dubai to guarantee capital of investors, says al-Maktoum

DUBAI, Oct 25: The government of Dubai will guarantee capital invested in projects in the emirate, the emirate’s crown prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum said in an interview published on Saturday.

Dubai will not allow any (investor) to lose ... If anyone’s investment in Dubai regresses, and if the capital regresses, then the government of Dubai will give him, and it will buy what he has invested in, al-Maktoum said in Al-Bayan newspaper.

The crown prince, who is the driving force behind multi-billion dollar projects that have placed the emirate on the world map, told the daily: I hate failure, and I can’t stand it.

The goal to develop Dubai into a tourism hub, he said, stemmed from a conversation he had with Arab ministers at an early age while visiting oil-rich Kuwait.

The crown prince interrupted the conversation of the dignitaries and asked Why don’t our countries in the Gulf, and in particular Dubai become promoters of tourism? ... If I remember, no one listened to me.

So I repeated the question, and I said that I was thinking of making Dubai a center of tourism and to place it on the international tourism map.

Since that day, al-Maktoum said in the government daily, the competition thermometer increased and Dubai now has become as I dreamed, five million tourists travel to it (annually), and in 2010 we expect 15 million tourists from all over the world.

Last week, Dubai announced plans to build “Dubailand”, a scheme to give the Arab world its own version of Disneyland. Sheikh Mohammed, who is also UAE defence minister, said the theme park would be completed after three years at a cost of 18 billion dirhams ($4.9 billion).

The return on every project (in Dubailand) will be 18 per cent, where will you find such a return on investment and in what country? he replied when asked how he would attract investors to the project.

Oil revenues account for only eight per cent of Dubai’s general budget, with tourism revenues and trade accounting for the remainder.

Seventy percent of the emirate’s imports are re-exported, said the crown prince.

Dubai has become an important financial centre, with its own weight and importance. Dubai has achieved a silk road in the sky ... Emirates airlines started with two planes and with a start-up capital of $12 million. Today the airline’s fleet consists of 60 aircraft and within two years or three the number will multiply to 120, he said. —AFP

Oh woe is us!!!!

c'mon guys lets start thinking a little more positively. I've just come back from Dubai and had a fantastic tour of the Torch in all its glory and what a hell of a building we've all got a slice of. The amount of workers on the site eclipsed any other development out there and I'm sure they didnt call everybody in just for the day we were there!

We were taken to the 51st floor and you guys that are worried about the view....don't be. Ive got a 2 bed on the 39th (02) and I was very surprised at what could be seen, especially been able to have a good view of the Atlantis.

Ok, the views aren't exactly uninterrupted, but we have got to remember we have bought property in a city where location is key and outstanding views are accompanied by sky high price tags. What we have got for the money we paid 4 years ago is in my mind fantastic. The marina itself has got to be one of the best locations on the planet and I cant wait to get back out there.

We had a tour of the 'mock-up' apartments and the feeling of space was great even in the 1 beds. Don't worry about the tiles/kitchen. It will be very easy to deal with, and as a kitchen fitter, I could certainly help!!!!

I spoke to the developer and he is convinced that the hand-over will be on time and from the progress I saw in just a week..I believe him.

We haven't lost money and the project is still ongoing. I'd rather have a slice of Dubai in these turbulent times and brake even than be an investor in UK property and witness loss after loss. If you want to hand back your unit(s), feel free i look forward to having the pick of some more cheap apartments!

What ever happened to the 'stiff upper lip'. Let the rest of the world fall apart.

Nice to see someone's cup is half full not half empty for a change !

Am with you in your thoughts ST

When my floor level is built in 5 months time I hope to go up too to see the view --can't wait

ST It's good to hear some positive things. I also think it's worth waiting for. Did you get any photos? Can you elaborate on the mock up apartments, this seems to be where SP are letting themselves down.

Great to see someone with positive views. At the end of the day we need to remember this is one of the best locations on the planet and one of the best projects in that location...

This is what I got from bhomes at the start of Jan 09 re torch resales. No idea what the situation really is now but I hear the resale market is picking up again. I would prefer to try and sale my unit at above original price than get a refund at original price.


We have a number of units available is this building and the 2 bedroom apartments currently start from AED 1,700,000 for a 33rd floor, 1,280 sq. ft. apartment. I will send you details of these units in a separate mail. We have also had 2 recent sales (November 2008) a 36th floor 1,270 sq ft sea view for AED 1,300,000 and a 54th floor 1,301 sq ft. partial sea view for AED 1,700,000.
The correct pricing of your unit along with effective marketing will be key in finding a buyer for you. I would recommend marketing your apartment around the AED 1,600,000 - AED 1,700,000 mark.
As you are no doubt aware, the property market worldwide has taken a downturn. It is now more important than ever to ensure that if you are selling your unit that you have a competitive edge and that your unit stands out amongst the others being offered for sale. The better the marketing then the better the chances are of finding a buyer.

I think the market has dropped about a third since then. When I was out there, I made an offer on a completed 2-bed on a fairly high floor of a well regarded and well situated building at around AED 710/sq ft. The asking price was around 1200. The owner held out for around 770. I refused to budge; I've heard today that it has been sold for more than the 770.

There were other units I walked away from that I could have bought in the 700-800 sq ft range, but they all had something against them - low floor, secondary location, wrong side of the building, poor finish/developer.

So I reckon the 'right price' for a decent marina apartment these days is around AED 800/sq ft. I should have bought at 770 while I had the chance :ohno:.

What you seem to forget is even if people got refunds on there money they would struggle to buy a completed unit in Marina as most buyers bought on the LPP. Getting finance in Dubai still isnt easy.

However I'm more optimistic than you I have been to Dubai recently and there is activity in the market. You claim alot of completed properties in Marina cheaper than OP of Torch. Well put an offer on the table, as soon as you do the Sellor will demnad more and many estate agents will tell you this!

I agree that the LPP is an attraction for someone who wants the unit for capital growth. However if rental income is your priority it could be a curse. The LPP instalments on a 2-bed aren't much less than AED 100/yr. This was OK when the rent was 200+. However, today, places are going for as little as 120-130. Deduct service charges etc and the property barely pays its way. It wouldn't take much more of a drop in the rental income for there to be a net cash outflow.

Can you give us any info on the units being registered with the Land Department.

No, my apologies but I didn't ask about the registration process.

My current feeling is that the Torch probably will get built, completion first half of 2011, but having spent much of the past two days looking at apartments for sale, I can't see a single reason why anyone who bought at the OP would want to hang in to find out if the developer will honour the refunds. There are completed units in better projects, rentable immediately, with no risk of non-completion, for lower prices.

Mistermark. What do you base 2011 completion on?

I'm basing it on conversations with people on this forum and elsewhere who have skills in civil engineering. The broad-brush goes like this:

We're now on floor 57
A floor a week for normal floors, a month for mechanical
82 floors in total
A large, illuminated feature to be constructed on the roof
Likely top-out around the end of the year
82-storey building, partially fitted out on the fly: say a year to complete fit-out and commissioning
Snagging begins Jan 2011, takes three months
Handover begins April 2011, takes three months

I think we're therefore about two years from the first units being handed over and occupied.

We will get the first indication of how far behind the developer is on 15 July. That's the topping-out date according to the 29 January letter. I'm betting they'll be on the 70th floor, tops.

Arfie

I recently came back from Dubai.

There are lots of completed apartments for sale, however, what I found is they tend to be around 20% higher price than OP. Also, typically not as good a view as what I experienced stood in my apartment on the 45+ floor!!

It's a balancing act I guess, do you go for a lesser view/position, at a higher price, yet benefit from low risk and immediate rental income .... or .... do you hang on in there for what we all were dreaming of - a classic position, classic view ... oh ... and cheaper to boot.

Well, I think we have all come along way together (most of us have been together for a good fews years now on this blog), so if we can afford it, we might as well moan for another year or so and be done with it - I personally suggest we all forget about the build for a year, get on with life, then hey - it may be done, ready to move in!!

Then we can all start to moan about the quality, strip them all bare, put in what we like (light doors, quality kitchens/bathrooms etc...) and hey, we have what we want, fantastic roomy apartment, classic brit interior, and still a darn sight cheaper.

I'm resigned to 2011 - accept it or get of the boat is my final thoughts on the matter. SP/TS - don't for Christ sake go bust on us !!!!

The Torch

I can see where you're coming from, all I'll say is that there's quite a big gap between asking prices and actual sale prices in Dubai right now. For instance I viewed a nice unit at AED 1.8m plus commission and transfer fees; the owner would have sold to me for 1.2 all in.

Admittedly, there aren't that many people who want to sell below OP. So the trick is to focus on some of the older projects, other than the four original EMAAR towers which have always gone for a premium, if you want to buy at a decent price today.

So Mark, long and short, are you staying in or pushing for your refund?

So Mark, long and short, are you staying in or pushing for your refund?

The latter. I'm confident that I can buy completed units for less and earn rent for the next two years rather than nothing, with zero risk of non-completion. Why would I want to stay in?

^^I think everybody here would like to do that if they could.

If I was in Touch :mad2: I would be doing the same. It’s all down to timing it right.

For those that have been to Dubai, could we please have photos of the interior of the Torch including the mock up apartments.
We have all been waiting rather anxiously for them but nobody has been forthcoming.Why the secrecy?

The latter. I'm confident that I can buy completed units for less and earn rent for the next two years rather than nothing, with zero risk of non-completion. Why would I want to stay in?

I admire your confidence regarding your plan. I'll be interested to see how you get on. I have a feeling that a lot of the distressed sales will already be gone by the time you get your money. My other worry would be that when the money is actually on the table and the paperwork ready to sign the deals suddenly wont be what you thought they were, the seller will start to demand more, and the agents will start to tell the truth.

I'm not pouring cold water on your plan just counselling caution. It's been my very real experience that when a deal appears to good to be true - it usually is just that!

I'm hanging on to my Torch unit; it's going to do well in time. Prices will recover and rents will recover, and there ought to be reasonably little stress (apart from the snagging) left to deal with now.

I made my Land Registry payments to SP for both my TT and BC units in August last year and both are not registered at the Land Registry yet, it's been over 8 months now. All I have is a receipt from SP acknowledging the payment to them. This is very worrying.

I got a copy of my registeration docs a couple of weeks ago. Sorry guys, I will answer all PM's upon my return home on Sunday

I got a copy of my registeration docs a couple of weeks ago. Sorry guys, I will answer all PM's upon my return home on Sunday

I got a copy of reg docs for BC too.
Mackie...Waht happened to the dramatic info and life changing info you had? Would still love to here it!

Project Update for April now received from Select.

Contains a lot of news articles basically in their own words.

Also admit to being behind again.

.....also say the contractor can recover and meet the schedule!!

Tell it like it is!

I got a copy of reg docs for BC too.
Mackie...Waht happened to the dramatic info and life changing info you had? Would still love to here it!

He's still getting his breath back - and the internal pictures.. ?? (anyone)

I have got some photos of the inside of the building if you want me to put them on...if I can work out how to do it!!!

They aren't great. I'm afraid I was doing a very tourist thing and just taking pics of the views but I'll see what I can do.

Like I said regarding the interiors, they appear to be the same as every other interior in Dubai apartments. Same kitchens,tiles,etc. I was more concerned about the finish of the walls, doors, etc as everything else can easily be upgraded if necessary.

We've all got to stop reading the newspapers. The amount of 'Dubai bashing' out there is enough to have us all tying the noose. Dubai is the jewel in the crown of the UAE and there is noway Abu Dhabi will let it fail. If it means things will slow down for a couple of years, then so be it. Dubai will recover a damn sight quicker than the UK. I'm 28 and can pretty much guarantee my grand kids will still be paying for the recent cock-ups in the so called 'developed' western world.

.....any way...how do I put these pics on?!!!!!

I hate computers! Got to go to work now but if someone can leave a note as to how I can put pics on here, Ill post them when I get home! Have a good day guys

So I reckon the 'right price' for a decent marina apartment these days is around AED 800/sq ft. I should have bought at 770 while I had the chance :ohno:.

^^CBP Sold his TP apartment for over AED 1600/sq ft a few days ago. I am not saying that is the going rate as he may have got lucky but it is a long way from AED 800.

^^CBP Sold his TP apartment for over AED 1600/sq ft a few days ago. I am not saying that is the going rate as he may have got lucky but it is a long way from AED 800.

Wow! That's a remarkable price. If I could sell at that price I'd be very happy - not least because I can buy for about half that figure...

.....also say the contractor can recover and meet the schedule!!

Tell it like it is!



Ive heard that comment before somewhere.Have you?

Yes, of course; - I was just trying to be positive and deliver the better news with the bad - like SP did. Lets try to be positive now that the finishing straight is in sight. I really don't care if it's a few more weeks late and they don't recover the schedule. Just as long as there is plenty of labour on site and it's progressing towards completion I'm happy.

I personally don't think delivery will stretch into 2011 as some are saying. I reckon I'll have my keys before end of 2010 - my guess is around about Oct/Nov.

17/April/2009

The Torch

http://i40.tinypic.com/zwb6h2.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/vy07li.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rp8z6d.jpg

Wow! That's a remarkable price. If I could sell at that price I'd be very happy - not least because I can buy for about half that figure...
You wouln't buy that type of apartment for half that absolutely no way !! - a room without a view perhaps but not one witn a view of the yacht club like The Point has

^^

Was it The Point or Time Place?

^^The Point

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19/April/2009

The Torch

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I made my Land Registry payments to SP for both my TT and BC units in August last year and both are not registered at the Land Registry yet, it's been over 8 months now. All I have is a receipt from SP acknowledging the payment to them. This is very worrying.

Morris, who says so?

listen you lot, you worry to much, I went to the land registry today to pay my fee for the Marinascape apt, and asked as an after thought, if my money had been deposited for my Torch apartments, and sure enough it had, and he gave me an official receipt there and then, that's all you got to do, go and asked the correct people and they will tell you, the Torch is up to date on all it's fees.

Alan

Morris, who says so?

listen you lot, you worry to much, I went to the land registry today to pay my fee for the Marinascape apt, and asked as an after thought, if my money had been deposited for my Torch apartments, and sure enough it had, and he gave me an official receipt there and then, that's all you got to do, go and asked the correct people and they will tell you, the Torch is up to date on all it's fees.

Alan

Many thanks for that Alan, that's good news. :banana:

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Many thanks for that Alan, that's good news. :banana:

Is it really true? Sheltie can you confirm?

We have sent no money yet for this to 'Select Developments'

I haven't heard anything yet.

24/April/2009

The Torch

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Many thanks for the update Imre :cheers:

It seems like a while since there was much progress here.

The shape of the tower from the first mechanical floor up is starting to look really nice, kind of cylindrical. will look realy great when its fully clad as most other towers nearby seem to be boxy and square.

Ready to pour floor 58 now too so possibly 60 floors by early may. 61 floors being 75% of the stucture completed. Another great milestone.

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I agree High Times. An unexpected optical illusion that doesn't really show up on the brochures, but is starting to look really cool.

Certainly glad I bought in this section, I like the flow of windows across the 2 bedrooms and the fact that it is much more window versus cladding. Pity it wasn't pure circular all the way round, but I guess that would create one hell of an airplane wing in wind, creating pressure difference lift and pull to one side. The four edges I guess would help to break up wind flow from direct effect on the building structure, allowing them to build so high.

It does seem a long time since the maintenance floor, but at least we are progressing fairly well.

Are we having a 75% build virtual party?

Cheers

The Torch

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Pics from charlie big potatoes. :cheers:

I will post some pics taken today later.

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No not yet, I think the sea/media city side corner still needs rebar and formwork.

I will post some pics taken today later.
Can't bear the suspense CBG ?
Any decent POINT ones also ?

No not yet, I think the sea/media city side corner still needs rebar and formwork.

Your right Anjam,

I was overexited and a little premature. :)

Taken yesterday morning


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Taken thursday 23rd arpil. Considerable progress since then. This morning they were boxing the supports for another floor.
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The 2 pics below were 24 th April

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Sat 25th

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Thanks CBP.

^^ Why is the 6th floor from the bottom in that last photo not being fitted out? :dunno:

The following pictures were taken sunday 26th when I left this morning 27th all the upright rebars were in place and most shuttered so a column pour will be happening soon this is a floor in 5 days.:applause:

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I can now having been inside at this level see how it takes 6 weeks to complete a double hieght floor, it is a massive difference not just double the work.

Thanks for the photos, did you manage to see inside the apartments or get photos?

Thanks CBP for taking time out for the pic's appreciated, CBP did you manage to get in the Torch Tower for a quick tour , have you any Pic's of the kitchens & the bathrooms yet ? & What floor is being currently poured ???

Thanks CBP

MOAF

Mackie1964, come out, come out, where ever you are ???

Mackie1964 ,I am still waiting for the commentary on your dubai trip ???

Whats going on mate.

MOAF

i am thinking about buying on the torch can anybody tell me when completion is and what is the price per sqft thanks

i am thinking about buying on the torch can anybody tell me when completion is and what is the price per sqft thanks

Completion is December 31 2008 and price is 2500AED/ sq foot. I have a spare apartment if you're interested.:gossip::shifty::cheers1::eat:

I have a spare apartment if you're interested. It is a 2 bed marina facing, above 40th floor, completion is December 31 2009 and price is AED 1450 sq ft. :cheers:

I'll do a 2 bed marina facing above 34th for 1400 aed sq ft or a .. 3 bed high marina facing by negotiation.. lol

I can offer a 11 year financing plan through select, no mortgage needed.. :)

All jokes aside, officially handover is now January 2010. Unofficially, probably Spring 2011. Original prices ran from AED 909 to around AED 1100 depending on size, floor and aspect. Today, those on the short payment plan (most of which are 90 percent paid) are probably worth OP and those on the LPP (lengthy payment plan - effectively a 65% mortgage over 15 years, of which 11 remain, at 7%) a little more.

I don't think I would part with mine at the moment for less than 1450psf. It is worth too much to me in rental from 2010 and prices will be jumping again soon. Not really interested in selling low and buying a completed unit with all the hassle involved with mortgages, especially since handover is within sight and this is in the prestigious tallest block.

I was at the Land Department yesterday. i defaulted on my last Bay Central payment to get the Land Department involved to sort out the issues of the hotel and the substantial delays.

they told me (the legal affairs center) that only the Land Department can cancel contracts, and if Select terminates any contract without going through the Land Department, they will give you a letter informing Select, or any developer for that matter, that the termination they did is "illegal".

More good news, if you are on the Standard Payment Plan, they will "force" Select to link payments to construction progress.

They said these are the laws of the land now.

I totally agree. The Torch will be a good investment in the long term. It's a matter of waiting for the price to go up if you want to sell. It's a bit like the footsie, my shares are way down at the moment but I will have to sit on them for a few years to come up. As long as I don't need the money just now I can wait.

Glover, What do you mean about good news for SPP investors. We've already paid 90%. Do you mean they will give us money back until it reaches 90% build. I can't see that happening.

i guess if you only have one payment left, its too late.

I think that's where most people are.

Obviuosly, its too late for the Torch, but not for other Select projects. They are way behind on all of them.

It's a matter of waiting for the price to go up if you want to sell. It's a bit like the footsie, my shares are way down at the moment but I will have to sit on them for a few years to come up. As long as I don't need the money just now I can wait.

I agree with this. I'm on SPP and my apt may well be worth OP at the moment but I have a 20% upside on the fx rate and I'm willing to hold knowing that I'll get good rental income for an apt with stunning marina views for several years (depending on what happens on the MST plot).

This is going up really fast now...

Hi All

I have my Land Registry proof of registration from Paul Brady, FYI.

The registry is dated 26th April 2009.

It is on official OQOOD letterhead, electronically generated .pdf and looks legitimate.

In summary:

1) It includes correct and full details of the two parties (ourselves and Torch Select).

2) It includes correct and full details of the property, land zone, apartment number, square footage, price sold at, developers name and ESCROW account number.

3) It includes receipt information (they call them vouchers) of three specific voucher payments, each with their own identification numbers, of values 10AED, 13,136.97AED and 13,136.97AED (not sure of the reason for this but not a concern really).

4) The OQOOD letterhead also has the RERA and Government of Dubai, Land Department logos on them.

I am therefore satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that my apartment has been registered at the OQOOD web site under our name, subject to completion of contractual terms (it does stipulate this also), which is fine.

Fairly satisfied with this response from Giles and Paul Brady - thanks guys (if you're reading).

Regards

The Torch

^^ Are you on the SPP? Has anyone on the LPP been registered yet? I have not been and I paid immediately on request from Select last year.

I am on SPP and have only received my receipt but 3 people own our apartment so they phoned the other day to say that only 2 names can go on it so I assume they are only in the process of doing it now. I also sent the money as soon as I got the letter.

Kitchen in Select's The Point tower.

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Kitchen in Select's The Point tower.

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It actually looks better than i thought it would - and with some CBP'S bling added will look fine

hi can anyone tell me what the rental is on 1 bed , 2 bed and 3 bed on here thanks

ZERO here at present, at least for the next 18 months or so.

hi can anyone tell me what the rental is on 1 bed , 2 bed and 3 bed on here thanks


Check out the new RERA rental index.Can be found online easy,but notice how marina apts have fallen 37% since Jan 09.

These kitchens dont come cheaper than this. If the torch kitchens are of this quality we will all need to change them , even the tiles are as chep as money can buy, id rather have an empty room to save me paying for a skip. When the time comes in Dubai and there are over 200 towers competing for tennants the kitchens and bathrooms are going to be essential. It just goes to show that you cant trust Select to do the right thing- can anyone beat this sales patter that was given to me during negotiations--" we are going to set up a system that you will be able to text a message to the air con system when you land at the airport" beat that crap if you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These kitchens dont come cheaper than this. If the torch kitchens are of this quality we will all need to change them , even the tiles are as chep as money can buy, id rather have an empty room to save me paying for a skip. When the time comes in Dubai and there are over 200 towers competing for tennants the kitchens and bathrooms are going to be essential. It just goes to show that you cant trust Select to do the right thing- can anyone beat this sales patter that was given to me during negotiations--" we are going to set up a system that you will be able to text a message to the air con system when you land at the airport" beat that crap if you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HA HA HA, I remember that one Re: the air con, we were actually told the same... my wife just laughted at that and then said "looking at those bathrooms, we'd actually be lucky if the toilets F**king flush " :lol:

Kitchen in Select's The Point tower.

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Can someone pass me the bucket pls..!!! :ohno:

Just do it in the sink.

Just do it in the sink.

As a bare minimum tiles (wall & floor) & worktop needs to be changed.

FAO: Select Property.... A dark coloured worktop would match with the units...this one's crap! Also the extracter hob would match and look good if it was silver.

01/May/2009

The Torch

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Thanks for the Photos Imre only 2 to go & it's 75% complete :banana:

So, its four year since I made my 1st purchase and we are level 59 out of 84... anyone else in the 4 year club ?? Looking at the April update, what's peoples views on July 09 for structure complete... i'm coming in at end of Sept 09... any advances on that ????

So, its four year since I made my 1st purchase and we are level 59 out of 84... anyone else in the 4 year club ?? Looking at the April update, what's peoples views on July 09 for structure complete... i'm coming in at end of Sept 09... any advances on that ????

I'm the same - got into this in May 2005. If they'd told me the main structure would be only 75% complete almost a year after the anticipated completion date, with not a penny paid in compensation and the developer refusing to issue a refund, what's the chance I would still have bought? Less than zero.

Clearly they're not going to top out in July '09. My guess is the end of the year. Add a year for fit-out, three months for snagging, commissioning etc and I reckon the first handovers will be occurring around this time of year - in 2011. That's six years after you and I reserved... :ohno:

Mark you keep on about no refunds did you not apply to early. Everyone on here except you seems to think refunds are not due until 30th June which is 1yr late plus 6 months FM. Please advise.

Nothing wrong with contempory dark wood kitchen units with a grey marble top. Only the wall tiles are a problem.

ps. Didn't someone say here that the Torch would not be getting white extractor fans now? :dunno:

Anyone know if the Torch will have fake square cieling panel like thos in the Point bathrooms. I really hate them, they look cheap. My understanding is that we will not in the Torch and that the ceiling height is taller?

hi can anyone tell me what the rental is on 1 bed , 2 bed and 3 bed on here thanks

RERA index is

1 bed AED 80-120,000 = UKP £14,814 to £22,000
2 bed AED 120-160,000 = UKP £22,222 to £29,630
3 bed AED 160-200,000 = UKP £29,629 to £37,037

AED 5.4 = £1

The torch will get the higher end value of those figures due to location, marina view, iconic World's tallest apartment tower etc.

I expect rentals will not be too different by early 2011.

So those that bought at original price could be getting > 12% gross rental yield, despite the rent falls of 15.2%. This is why we are seeing professional investors entering the Dubai market now looking to pick up such units at original price or close to it.

Other possibilities include holiday rental where it is possible to get more rent for more work. The torch is allowed to be rented on holiday lets unlike some other developments.

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Looking good now the cladding is almost done on that side.

Mark you keep on about no refunds did you not apply to early. Everyone on here except you seems to think refunds are not due until 30th June which is 1yr late plus 6 months FM. Please advise.

It's not the case that 'everybody here except me' thinks refunds aren't due until 30 June. A number of others have already issued termination notices based on their understanding of the SPA being the same.

The contracts state that we can terminate if the developer is 'unable to give possession and occupation of the property by 30 June 2009'. What matters is whether they can or can't do this. Considering that they wrote to us on 29 January to say they can't, there's no logical way we should have to wait until the end of June to prove what the developer has already told us, in writing.

It's true that there are a lot of people on here who are taking the view that they will give the developer the benefit of the doubt until 30 June. Some of these are people who've already issued termination notices and had them knocked back; others didn't get to that stage because they had heard about the company's line on cancellations or were waiting to see what the market did and how the build progressed.

Given that there has been a pretty dramatic drift against the revised schedule issued in January, which claimed they'd be topping out the building in July, and that the Dubai market seems to have stabilised with completed units in good projects in the Marina readily available for AED 700-900/sq ft, I can see no reason why a sane buyer would want to hold on, except perhaps for the LPP.

It will be interesting to see what happens on this forum in mid/late July. I fear there could be a few people who said I was wrong back in March when I claimed the developer was either dishonest or insolvent for failing to issue refunds who will be eating their words. I hope not, but I predict now how it will go:

'We've forwarded your termination notice to RERA... RERA must approve all cancellations and refunds'

'Your termination notice is awaiting approval at RERA'

'I regret to inform you there is a backlog of termination requests being considered by RERA at this time'

'We notice you are in arrears because you didn't make the LPP instalment due on 1 September 2009. Failure to pay within 20 business days will result in us cancelling your contract and keeping whatever proportion of the funds paid to date RERA are saying we're entitled to retain, which changes weekly'

Can someone pass me the bucket pls..!!! :ohno:

Why, just walk away from the mirror.

FAO: Select Property.... A dark coloured worktop would match with the units...this one's crap! Also the extracter hob would match and look good if it was silver.

Candy and Candy beware Pauls now leading authority on interior design.

mistermark, why bother trying to cancel, just sell, there are a few buyers around for the torch at the moment willing to pay above original price since it will pay > 12% rental yield.

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mistermark, why bother trying to cancel, just sell, there are a few buyers around for the torch at the moment willing to pay above original price since it will pay > 12% rental yield.

I'd love to, if I could find one. There are people on this forum who've said I've been too critical towards the developer who have turned down the opportunity to buy my units at OP - I guess they like telling themselves they've done well. Truth is, with completed units that generate rent today and where there's no doubt they'll be finished and to what standard going for well below AED 1000/sq ft, I can't see why anyone would want to pay me more than OP for my units. But if there's anyone here that does, they're welcome to PM me...

^^ Charlie big potatoes sold one of his apartments recently in Select's The Point for 1627 psf, if I am not mistaken. Can you direct me to a Dubai Marina apartment that would compare with the Torch (location and view wise and in an iconic tower) on a high floor for less than AED 1000 please that is not just false advertising and will give a yield of 12%, thanks.

I'd love to, if I could find one. There are people on this forum who've said I've been too critical towards the developer who have turned down the opportunity to buy my units at OP - I guess they like telling themselves they've done well. Truth is, with completed units that generate rent today and where there's no doubt they'll be finished and to what standard going for well below AED 1000/sq ft, I can't see why anyone would want to pay me more than OP for my units. But if there's anyone here that does, they're welcome to PM me...


I'm sure under different circumstances there would be plenty interest in your apartment. With credit being harder to get and confidence in Dubai/property/investments in general being low, most people are choosing to play it safe and sit tight. They just don't have the inclination in the current climate to spend money on flights and hotels in order to scour for alternative investment opportunities in a country which isn't exactly receiving good press at the moment. The few exceptions may be cash investors who view this is as a period of real opportunity and as a result low-ball those sellers who are desperate to sell. So, going for a refund may be your best bet, however, if you can't find a buyer to buy at OP then I doubt SP will either which won't exactly lead to speedy conclusion.

I have a high up 2 bed marina facing and my plan is to hold because I believe I will be sitting on a goldmine provided the MST plot owners don't decide to build a monster in front of my apartment. Even if they do, I will have several years of phenomenal views before they eventually get blocked. That along with proximity to tram stop, great location etc makes it an easy decision for me.

Select sold several Torch apartments recently quite a bit above original asking price. Best to look for professional investors at the moment looking for yield in the most part, not your average jo armchair speculative investor. There are buyers out there.

^^

If that were true then surely those looking for a refund would have contacted the Select Resales Department if they're that good at re-selling.

On another note, I'm trying to figure out whether I'm a Pro or a Joe...

Select sold several Torch apartments recently quite a bit above original asking price. Best to look for professional investors at the moment looking for yield in the most part, not your average jo armchair speculative investor. There are buyers out there.

After taking into account all the fees associated and Selects 5% sales fee, there really is not alot in it between say 20% premium above OP and handing back, but I fear that what Mistermark has predicted re: Select and Rera will be spot on, I had previously thought that they will hide behind Rera and they have already advised that they have to pass all refund requests to Rera. Having said that, One day I want to hand back one unit, then the next day I don't... we are so close now and I to expect rental returns around to be around 12% as bought at the begining, this will add to help top up other props in the UK when Bank base starts to rise again... What to do ?? :dunno:

............It will be interesting to see what happens on this forum in mid/late July. I fear there could be a few people who said I was wrong back in March when I claimed the developer was either dishonest or insolvent for failing to issue refunds who will be eating their words. I hope not, but I predict now how it will go:

'We've forwarded your termination notice to RERA... RERA must approve all cancellations and refunds'

'Your termination notice is awaiting approval at RERA'

'I regret to inform you there is a backlog of termination requests being considered by RERA at this time'

'We notice you are in arrears because you didn't make the LPP instalment due on 1 September 2009. Failure to pay within 20 business days will result in us cancelling your contract and keeping whatever proportion of the funds paid to date RERA are saying we're entitled to retain, which changes weekly'

I completely understand your concerns. I intend to hand back one of my units so this has bothered me too.

There is a dichotomy about Select that is frustrating. On the one hand the customer service at this end is excellent from my personal experience, (These guys are playing the 'Good Cop'). Then you get kicked in the teeth at the other end....delays, FM, cheap fixtures/fittings etc etc. ('Bad Cop').

However, I for one am fairly confident that RERA and the Dubai Courts would not attempt to undermine a legally binding contract to the detriment of the purchaser. This would set a dangerous precedent and would most definitely put off potential investors in the future. I do believe anyone returning their units will get their money back, but possibly not within the 20 days as specified in the contract.

Has anyone here who was thinking of returning a unit actually tried selling yet, and if not, why not?

^^

If that were true then surely those looking for a refund would have contacted the Select Resales Department if they're that good at re-selling.

On another note, I'm trying to figure out whether I'm a Pro or a Joe...

Cant agree more, its good that you are not trying to figure out if you are an Arthur or a Martha.

Has anyone here who was thinking of returning a unit actually tried selling yet, and if not, why not?

That's a good point Steve; - in the end this is going to be a much less stressful way out than all the hand wringing of "will they or wont they" give me my money back. They probably will of course - in the end; - they will be able to legitimately string this out for a very long time though in a land where "a long time" can be much, much longer than a "European long time!" I'd be selling if I was interested in getting out.

Has anyone here who was thinking of returning a unit actually tried selling yet, and if not, why not?

Yes. :) And with hindsight, I am very happy with the sale price. :)

^^ Charlie big potatoes sold one of his apartments recently in Select's The Point for 1627 psf, if I am not mistaken. Can you direct me to a Dubai Marina apartment that would compare with the Torch (location and view wise and in an iconic tower) on a high floor for less than AED 1000 please that is not just false advertising and will give a yield of 12%, thanks.

I think Charlie got a very good deal indeed.

When I was in Dubai recently I viewed a beautiful 2-bed, 2-bath on a high floor of Marina Terrace with panoramic marina views. The square footage was around 1500, asking price 1.5m. The vendor said he'd take 1.2 but I wanted it for 1.1. Before he could respond to my offer he sold, I believe for 1.2-1.3.

More recently I was offered a similar-sized unit in one of the Emaar towers, I think it's called Al-Majara, for 1.2m. It sold for the asking price before I could get out there to view.

I've reached the conclusion that there are plenty of units on the market at AED 1500 or thereabouts that don't sell, but that there's a real dealflow at around AED 800/sq ft.

If the Torch units were completed now I think they probably would achieve the original price. Given that they could be two years away from completion I'm not surprised that there's little evidence of real, recent transactions at that price under current market conditions.

Has anyone here who was thinking of returning a unit actually tried selling yet, and if not, why not?

When I went out to Dubai to see the SG team, they suggested that they would try to sell my units before 30 June. So far, no news...

I guess all the distressed marina sales will go first and they will be pushed into selling at below 1000psf. Then there should be plenty of professional investors still around looking for rental yields. Not many other places in the world that you can get 10 to 12% rental yields these days. The question is by how much further rents may drop in the marina. According to RERA's figures there was a drop of 15.2% so far for the marina.

I completely understand your concerns. I intend to hand back one of my units so this has bothered me too.

There is a dichotomy about Select that is frustrating. On the one hand the customer service at this end is excellent from my personal experience, (These guys are playing the 'Good Cop'). Then you get kicked in the teeth at the other end....delays, FM, cheap fixtures/fittings etc etc. ('Bad Cop').

However, I for one am fairly confident that RERA and the Dubai Courts would not attempt to undermine a legally binding contract to the detriment of the purchaser. This would set a dangerous precedent and would most definitely put off potential investors in the future. I do believe anyone returning their units will get their money back, but possibly not within the 20 days as specified in the contract.


Couldn't agree more about the dichotomy. Originally, Select Property described The Torch as a joint venture; now things are going wrong, they're keen to position themselves as merely a selling agent, who will lobby on buyers' behalf to get the nasty, Dubai developer Select Group to do right by customers.

The problem with RERA is this: even if RERA has actually told the developer that it must give refunds to anyone who has issued termination notices, even before 30 June 2009, the developer can claim that RERA has advised them otherwise and if we don't like it, our recourse is to take them to the Property Court, where the waiting list for cases to be heard is 2-3 years. The Reconciliation Court is much easier, but cases can be heard there only if both parties agree (and why would the developer want to do that?).

When the developer turned down the termination notice I issued on 22 February and I subsequently met with them on 13 April, they said that the reason why buyers could not issue termination notices until after 30 June was that this is how RERA was interpreting clause 15.3. I asked them to provide me with a letter from RERA confirming that this was the case. I'm still waiting.

The developer has, however, given me a letter stating that as long as my account is up to date as at 30 June, they will honour my termination notice - but, ominously, 'all refunds will be subject to RERA approvals and procedures at the time', or some such wording. So I asked them to get me a letter from RERA confirming they would approve the refund and ensure the developer issued a prompt refund. Again, no sign of it so far...

The point I'm making is that the developer plans to use RERA as an excuse not to issue refunds to those of us who want out. However, if any of us stop making our instalments (I'm talking about buyers on the LPP), they will invoke the clause in the contract that permits them to cancel swiftly enough. The difference between the two is that if they do the terminating, rather than us, they keep the lion's share of the sums paid to date.

Thus, a company that I believe to be technically insolvent, in that it has a liability to myself and others for refunds under correctly issued termination notices, will endeavour to keep us all making the instalments that will hopefully enable it to complete the project - a full six years after many of us reserved on what we were told would be a three-year build.

Sounds like they will be stringing you along until they get sales for your units, before they refund your money. Therefore I would prefer to sell the unit myself. Is there any reason I can't find your units for sale on better homes etc.?

I guess all the distressed marina sales will go first and they will be pushed into selling at below 1000psf. Then there should be plenty of professional investors still around looking for rental yields. Not many other places in the world that you can get 10 to 12% rental yields these days. The question is by how much further rents may drop in the marina. According to RERA's figures there was a drop of 15.2% so far for the marina.

I agree with you. It's interesting that when units are priced around the 800psf rate, they seem to sell quickly. And as you say, there are few places in the world where smart, new-build properties are generating 10-12% yields. I suspect there may be a bit more of a drop in yields this summer, but nothing spectacular, so these units still represent decent value.

It's my suspicion that once the distressed units dry up, the 80psf mark will just be accepted as the market rate that people should buy and sell at, and the wishful thinkers at 1500+ will either re-price or take their units off the market. If there's a big upturn in yields or the Dollar gets a lot weaker, that could drive a recovery in prices, but I see no signs of either trend yet.

One way of valuing Torch units goes like this:

Current market selling price for marina units - 800psf
Anticipated rental yield for marina units this year and next - 80psf
Rental income sacrificed when buying unit two years from completion, compared with completed unit - 160psf
Percentage chance of project not being completed due to developer insolvency, say 10% - 80psf
Net value of Torch units today - 560psf

I appreciate that nobody would sell at this price, but this is what my Torch units are worth to me. Given that the contract gives me the right to return them to the developer and get more than 1000psf (due to the interest on the LPP) it's not surprising that this is what I prefer to do.

Sounds like they will be stringing you along until they get sales for your units, before they refund your money. Therefore I would prefer to sell the unit myself. Is there any reason I can't find your units for sale on better homes etc.?

I haven't listed them with Better Homes; I've asked SP to try to re-sell them for me. It turns out they have quite an active network of sub-agents they work with, and when I've spoken to other agents about selling my Torch units I get one or both of three responses:

1. In the current market we're not taking on any more properties under construction. We're interested only in completed units

2. We'd be happy to help, please pay us a listing fee (by the way, no guarantees of a sale)

3. The best people to sell Select projects are Select themselves, so go to them

Interestingly, Better Homes were one of the many agents I listed my Goldcrest duplex with. They didn't get a single viewing. I was surprised how little proactivity they showed compared with some other agents.

From Select:

Please see below for 2 sets of valuation figures illustrating either figures to ensure that your property is amongst the most competitive units on our listings or a higher price to gain a greater return on your investment;

T-**** (all figures in AED)

• 1075 per sq.ft
• 108,812 net profit
• 9% Capital Appreciation
• 17% Return on Investment
• Total Returned to Seller 770,293 (amount paid to date plus net profit)

T-**** (all figures in AED)

• 1225 per sq.ft
• 299,312 net profit
• 24% Capital Appreciation
• 45% Return on Investment
• Total Returned to Seller 960,793 (amount paid to date plus net profit)

From Select:

Please see below for 2 sets of valuation figures illustrating either figures to ensure that your property is amongst the most competitive units on our listings or a higher price to gain a greater return on your investment;

T-**** (all figures in AED)

• 1075 per sq.ft
• 108,812 net profit
• 9% Capital Appreciation
• 17% Return on Investment
• Total Returned to Seller 770,293 (amount paid to date plus net profit)

T-**** (all figures in AED)

• 1225 per sq.ft
• 299,312 net profit
• 24% Capital Appreciation
• 45% Return on Investment
• Total Returned to Seller 960,793 (amount paid to date plus net profit)

That's interesting. I guess these are asking prices, as opposed to what they've actually sold for. I'd be very happy to sell for either of these prices :).

That's interesting. I guess these are asking prices, as opposed to what they've actually sold for. I'd be very happy to sell for either of these prices :).

Has anyone received a receipt for their last payment? We asked -countless- times and nothing yet, the next payment is due soon. Is this just us, or a sign of impending bankruptcy?

Nice to wake up and find we're returning to negativity and Machiavellian theories; - I've missed that.

I'm just sitting back relaxing and waiting to be called to collect my keys! Life's too short!

Has anyone received a receipt for their last payment? We asked -countless- times and nothing yet, the next payment is due soon. Is this just us, or a sign of impending bankruptcy?

I've always received all my receipts on time and also a couple of weeks ago the Land Registry docs confirming my TT & BC units have been registered.
:)

Wow, Scooby- That's big time negative. I was just lying down on the beach at JBR looking up at the Torch thinking to myself that its only a matter of a month or 2 till it starts rising over everything in the Marina and surrounding area. I'm no friend of Select, but I can say this building s buzzing with activity!

Wow, Scooby- That's big time negative. I was just lying down on the beach at JBR looking up at the Torch thinking to myself that its only a matter of a month or 2 till it starts rising over everything in the Marina and surrounding area. I'm no friend of Select, but I can say this building s buzzing with activity!

Well I have to admit that all previous receipts were on time and the dubai select website updated accordingly.

We made our last payment 9 weeks ago, and have sent numerous reminders but we have not yet received a receipt, just silly responses such as 'sorry for the delay' with an indication that we should receive it shortly.

Has everyone else received their receipt for the last payment? and to confirm what Morrismarina is saying has everyone received the registration documents?

I am on the SPP 90% paid last year. I did not receive registration receipt from select but I did manage to get one via my lawyer from the land department. It was registered after Apr 20th 09. We paid our registration fee last year promptly when asked. So it may be the case that they are only getting them through the Qood system now. My ref doc had Rahail aslam on it.

Well I have to admit that all previous receipts were on time and the dubai select website updated accordingly.

We made our last payment 9 weeks ago, and have sent numerous reminders but we have not yet received a receipt, just silly responses such as 'sorry for the delay' with an indication that we should receive it shortly.

Has everyone else received their receipt for the last payment? and to confirm what Morrismarina is saying has everyone received the registration documents?

Maybe this is a very good time to contact the escrow agent (Dubai Islamic Bank) directly and request a statement.

I am on the SPP 90% paid last year. I did not receive registration receipt from select but I did manage to get one via my lawyer from the land department. It was registered after Apr 20th 09. We paid our registration fee last year promptly when asked. So it may be the case that they are only getting them through the Qood system now. My ref doc had Rahail aslam on it.

Thanks Rambo. Do you think you were registered on April 20th, simply because you had a lawyer on the case? We have not paid the registration fee yet.

What was Rahail Aslam's position?

^^^^

Hey it's the life and soul of the party.

Scoobys back with more wrist slicing discussion.

I bet you self harmed as a kid, or at least headbanged the wall.

Lighten up for fuck sake man.

^^^^

Hey it's the life and soul of the party.

Scoobys back with more wrist slicing discussion.

I bet you self harmed as a kid, or at least headbanged the wall.

Lighten up for fuck sake man.

Actually you've reminded me, something that's been on my mind for some time. I've been thinking of setting up a fund for all the labourers who are building The Torch, they are treated so badly and are effectively slaves. I used to think they were paid at least £5 per hour, if not more. But no, they are paid more like $7 per day and need to use that money to pay back the loan they took out for the trip to Dubai.

Have you no conscience? have you turned a blind eye to the pain and suffering that you are effectively condoning?

Actually you've reminded me, something that's been on my mind for some time. I've been thinking of setting up a fund for all the labourers who are building The Torch, they are treated so badly and are effectively slaves. I used to think they were paid at least £5 per hour, if not more. But no, they are paid more like $7 per day and need to use that money to pay back the loan they took out for the trip to Dubai.

Have you no conscience? have you turned a blind eye to the pain and suffering that you are effectively condoning?

Hysterical.
Guess why you paid so little for your unit?
When you figure it out you probably wont feel so sympathetic.

Actually you've reminded me, something that's been on my mind for some time. I've been thinking of setting up a fund for all the labourers who are building The Torch, they are treated so badly and are effectively slaves. I used to think they were paid at least £5 per hour, if not more. But no, they are paid more like $7 per day and need to use that money to pay back the loan they took out for the trip to Dubai.

Have you no conscience? have you turned a blind eye to the pain and suffering that you are effectively condoning?

$7 a day. I hope none of my Polish are reading this they will all be into me in the morning for a rise.

Hysterical.
Guess why you paid so little for your unit?
When you figure it out you probably wont feel so sympathetic.

I paid quite a lot really, and I'm sure the other investors agree. It's even more expensive when you look at it now, knowing that what amounts to slave labour is being used.

I paid quite a lot really, and I'm sure the other investors agree. It's even more expensive when you look at it now, knowing that what amounts to slave labour is being used.

You still dont get it.If those labourers were being paid £5 an hour then you would have had to pay shitloads more for your unit.Would you have still gone for it?doubtful.
Why do you think Dubai has had this property boom?Cheap unit prices mainly based on dirt cheap labour costs.

You still dont get it.If those labourers were being paid £5 an hour then you would have had to pay shitloads more for your unit.Would you have still gone for it?doubtful.
Why do you think Dubai has had this property boom?Cheap unit prices mainly based on dirt cheap labour costs.

Most of us paid around AED 1000 (£185) per sq ft. I can buy an apartment in Brighton Marina, in the south east of England, for around £240/sq ft, built by unionised labour on Western European wages. IMHO if the workers building projects such as the Torch in Dubai were paid similar wages, the land prices would be lower and possibly the developers' profits would be reduced, but the prices they could charge for the properties would still be capped around their current level.

Most of us paid around AED 1000 (£185) per sq ft. I can buy an apartment in Brighton Marina, in the south east of England, for around £240/sq ft, built by unionised labour on Western European wages. IMHO if the workers building projects such as the Torch in Dubai were paid similar wages, the land prices would be lower and possibly the developers' profits would be reduced, but the prices they could charge for the properties would still be capped around their current level.

Or you can buy a 1600sqft new apartment right on the beach in Newquay (fistral beach) for just under £150/sqft, cheap service charge @£640 to £700/year. Excellent service by a very professional company.

Or you can buy a 1600sqft new apartment right on the beach in Newquay (fistral beach) for just under £150/sqft, cheap service charge @£640 to £700/year. Excellent service by a very professional company.

Tempting :). Don't suppose you have a link?

Most of us paid around AED 1000 (£185) per sq ft. I can buy an apartment in Brighton Marina, in the south east of England, for around £240/sq ft, built by unionised labour on Western European wages. IMHO if the workers building projects such as the Torch in Dubai were paid similar wages, the land prices would be lower and possibly the developers' profits would be reduced, but the prices they could charge for the properties would still be capped around their current level.

So how much does it cost the developer per sq ft?

Or you can buy a 1600sqft new apartment right on the beach in Newquay (fistral beach) for just under £150/sqft, cheap service charge @£640 to £700/year. Excellent service by a very professional company.

Will that pay 12% or more rental yield? I doubt it.

^^7% to 8% long term lets or 15 to 18% short term letting.
Dubai is heading towards the 5% at the moment, forget about the index :cheers:

Steve, you have convinced only yourself that TT will acheive 12% return. This building is 2 years away from handover and in the current market and economy, they are poor investments even at original price.

I don't know where your logic comes from that "professional investors" will be lining up to pick off TT units at original price when they can pick up ready now units that carry no risks and start earning rent income now.

By handover time Park Islands, Marina Quays TGR and a few others will have completed on the island close to the walk then there is Silverene and possibly Infinity, Ocean Heights and a few others off the island but with better locations and architecture than TT all competeing for the few tenants that are left.

My experience and knowledge passed from other landlords so far is that there are plenty of corporate tenants out there willing to pay a premium for location, views and quality of tower facilities etc. I'm not convinced TT will tick any of those boxes but that is just my opinion.

Just a side story to buck the trend. An owner in Dorrabay contacted me within the last week to inform me of his offer from GE power systems to rent out his apartment on a minimum 2 year lease furnished for 200k per annum. He was only asking 130k unfurnished but the tenant loved the apartment and location and was offering "his budget" to guarantee the unit. BTW he is working at the power plant accross the road:) I also heard of a few offers for 3 years at 130k/year 1 cheque, for tenants working in AD.

has anyone any experience with the First Group who advertise here-what do they have to offer-are they just like select!!except they are giving appartments away to people like Michael Owen to promote themselves, would it be worth an ispection trip to see whats now avaliable in Dubai!

No need, just buy Silverene and be happy or anything else from Cayan.

Steve, you have convinced only yourself that TT will acheive 12% return. This building is 2 years away from handover and in the current market and economy, they are poor investments even at original price.

I don't know where your logic comes from that "professional investors" will be lining up to pick off TT units at original price when they can pick up ready now units that carry no risks and start earning rent income now.

By handover time Park Islands, Marina Quays TGR and a few others will have completed on the island close to the walk then there is Silverene and possibly Infinity, Ocean Heights and a few others off the island but with better locations and architecture than TT all competeing for the few tenants that are left.

My experience and knowledge passed from other landlords so far is that there are plenty of corporate tenants out there willing to pay a premium for location, views and quality of tower facilities etc. I'm not convinced TT will tick any of those boxes but that is just my opinion.

Just a side story to buck the trend. An owner in Dorrabay contacted me within the last week to inform me of his offer from GE power systems to rent out his apartment on a minimum 2 year lease furnished for 200k per annum. He was only asking 130k unfurnished but the tenant loved the apartment and location and was offering "his budget" to guarantee the unit. BTW he is working at the power plant accross the road:) I also heard of a few offers for 3 years at 130k/year 1 cheque, for tenants working in AD.

Have to agree here, living in lala land if one thinks he can achieve 12% rental yeilds when the market is where it is at. It changes almost daily, hope its possible but too many units coming onto the market. Should be happy with 5-7% yeilds at best.

Or you can buy a 1600sqft new apartment right on the beach in Newquay (fistral beach) for just under £150/sqft, cheap service charge @£640 to £700/year. Excellent service by a very professional company.

newquay is a very mediocre beach though. only an englishman would be impressed by that piddly strip of tack.:ohno::nuts::bash::cheers:

Have to agree here, living in lala land if one thinks he can achieve 12% rental yeilds when the market is where it is at. It changes almost daily, hope its possible but too many units coming onto the market. Should be happy with 5-7% yeilds at best.

5% of original price of a 2 bed in the torch is only AED 60,000 per year. I don't think even TrueBlue would be happy with that rental return for his 1 bed in the arse end by the noisy bridge. Can't see rents going that low some how.

5% of original price of a 2 bed in the torch is only AED 60,000 per year. I don't think even TrueBlue would be happy with that rental return for his 1 bed in the arse end by the noisy bridge. Can't see rents going that low some how.

lol, I hope you are right steve. Depends on how many units are out in the marketplace for rent in 2 years, could be huge numbers of empty apartments depending on the expat population, creating lower rents/yields. Who knows with this place, its crazy.

^^ Are you on the SPP? Has anyone on the LPP been registered yet? I have not been and I paid immediately on request from Select last year.

H Dubai Steve

I'm on the SPP.

The Torch

5% of original price of a 2 bed in the torch is only AED 60,000 per year. I don't think even TrueBlue would be happy with that rental return for his 1 bed in the arse end by the noisy bridge. Can't see rents going that low some how.
Steve - unfortunately if the cost of service charges stay the same and still rest with the landlord for next few years the % rental yield will reduce in real terms also
However will be still beter than Newquay Mr Darling won't have his cut as well !

5% of original price of a 2 bed in the torch is only AED 60,000 per year. I don't think even TrueBlue would be happy with that rental return for his 1 bed in the arse end by the noisy bridge. Can't see rents going that low some how.

Ouch!

Correct, I would not be happy with that for The Jewels, but you missed the point. The market has developed now and people have choice so everything is not going to rent at the same price. People will seek out what they want and pay extra for the best.

Tallest block will not acheive the same rent levels as low rise waterfront towers. Ask anyone what 2 bed they would choose, 8th floor Bayside Residence or 50th floor Torch? The answer will determine which one will get the better rents.

^^ I don't think High Times would agree with your logic there TB.

^^ I don't think High Times would agree with your logic there TB.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think or High Times, the market is real now and I am giving my opinions from experience and speaking to others.

I was inundated with offers for Jewels apt by people affraid of heights or fires. There is also a market for the highest apartments just for people who love to have their heads in the clouds:)

I'm not a huge subscriber to the 'which part of the marina is the best' argument. There are still quite a few unknowns for my liking...

I really rate Silverene and was just looking at available apartments on Dubizzle.com. Under the location section it states "Dubai Marina, 1.4KM from Marina Walk." So, someone somewhere must think that living near Marina Walk ain't so bad after all...

I was inundated with offers for Jewels apt by people affraid of heights or fires.

Are you saying that your Jewels apartment would get a higher rental than Burj Dubai or Le Reve then for example? :lol:

A friend of ours has just rented emaar 1 bed downtown in South Ridge 2 fantastic views 1100 sq ft huge lounge great facilities 97kpa. Not sure how this area compares price wise to the marina at present but thats the deal he got only yesterday.

Are you saying that your Jewels apartment would get a higher rental than Burj Dubai or Le Reve then for example? :lol:

You're not making sense anymore!..:ohno:

Keep believing that TT will be easy to rent out at the top of the market if that keeps you happy:)

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a bit of friendly advice. I'm contemplatoing buying a 2 week fraction in the Torch. It's on the 10th floor (including the 6 podium floors) and is Marina facing (aspect 6 I believe).

Is the Torch a quality development and is it still going to have Marina views once current and future developments are finished?

Also any commnets on Select? Should I get a lawyer involved for a fractional ownership or is it overkill?

Many thanks

I bought an appt in TP 3 Years ago for 965000dhs and am in at 6.97 dhs average so that particular appts cost me 138.5k sterling.

I according to people in the rental market I would hope to get in june when handed over 80k dhs per annum by 5.4 dhs = 14.8k sterling. Less the service charge approx 2K sterling pa, brings it to less than 10 per cent profit.

This is here and now not 2 years down the line with the gamble of what might happen and we all know what can happen, just look bact to Sept 08.

So Steve, do I stay or do I go. You seem to have done all the mathmatics on this subject, what do you reckon?

If you can get 10% or more gross rental then rent it out! Who cares what happens to the value of the unit if you are getting 10% or more rent.

For me, I will stick it out with the Torch as I want to retire in 10 years or less so want to pay off the LPP and live on the rental.

Don't want to get a Dubai mortgage.

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a bit of friendly advice. I'm contemplatoing buying a 2 week fraction in the Torch. It's on the 10th floor (including the 6 podium floors) and is Marina facing (aspect 6 I believe).

Is the Torch a quality development and is it still going to have Marina views once current and future developments are finished?

Also any commnets on Select? Should I get a lawyer involved for a fractional ownership or is it overkill?

Many thanks

You don't have much of a choice if you want to buy a fraction of an apartment in Dubai.

Don't bank on marina views remaining forever but they should be good for a few years after handover. Handover won't be before 2011.

Quality? There are some pics showing what you can expect when it's finished. You can judge for yourself.

Select are just a sales agent from what I can gather so expect them to be nice guys:)

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a bit of friendly advice. I'm contemplatoing buying a 2 week fraction in the Torch. It's on the 10th floor (including the 6 podium floors) and is Marina facing (aspect 6 I believe).

Is the Torch a quality development and is it still going to have Marina views once current and future developments are finished?

Also any commnets on Select? Should I get a lawyer involved for a fractional ownership or is it overkill?

Many thanks

Most likely will have a full marina view for 2 or 3 years after handover followed by a partial marina view between 2 towers, although if only on the 10th floor it is possbile that the view will be completely blocked if there will be a tall podium on a tower in front. Quality is similar to the point tower, perhaps slightly better and with better location and podium facilities with large pool with landscaping etc.

A lawyer is probably overkill but that is a persaonl thing. I don't have one and I am buying.

Despite what TB says, in my opinion handover should be by Sept 2010 as pace is now faster than expected.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/54i2pw.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/6zaqtw.jpg

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_15db6qccdf

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a bit of friendly advice. I'm contemplatoing buying a 2 week fraction in the Torch. It's on the 10th floor (including the 6 podium floors) and is Marina facing (aspect 6 I believe).

Is the Torch a quality development and is it still going to have Marina views once current and future developments are finished?

Also any commnets on Select? Should I get a lawyer involved for a fractional ownership or is it overkill?

Many thanks

I don't know what the pricing is now, but when the fractional units were released (2006?) I didn't see a logic to the pricing. IMHO if I buy a 2-week fraction it should cost 2/52 of a full ownership, ie about 4%. But, in common with many fractional ownerships, they were priced at something like 2.5x that figure. While I accept the marketing costs are higher (the developer, oops, sales agent, needs to find 26 buyers for each unit) I still don't see how it stacks up. I'd rather buy a complete unit with a group of friends/fellow investors and/or borrow money if needs be.

@ Steve;

Yields are calculated against current market values, bloody amateurs :lol::banana:

^^ yes I am using current market values on my calculations (original price = current market value today :lol:)

To me fractional ownership is another name for Timeshare. It's always dear buying from a developer. Do you also have to pay maintenance every year? How much would a 2 week rental cost renting privately compared to paying fractional ownership plus the maintenance.

Mistermark is right, calculate how much they will get for 51 weeks at the price they are quoting you. They might keep one of the weeks for maintenance.

July and August are for sale in mine :lol: :cheers:

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_15db6qccdf[/QUOTE]

Has somebody decide they are not happy with the look of the Torch and decided to knock it down and start over again?

If this is the case, I doubt it will top out before 2010 :nuts:

The Torch

:lol: Posted that again to show the pool area for Mike. At least it matches your avatar :)

thanks

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a bit of friendly advice. I'm contemplatoing buying a 2 week fraction in the Torch. It's on the 10th floor (including the 6 podium floors) and is Marina facing (aspect 6 I believe).

Is the Torch a quality development and is it still going to have Marina views once current and future developments are finished?

Also any commnets on Select? Should I get a lawyer involved for a fractional ownership or is it overkill?

Many thanks

I would stay clear of such schemes/timeshares or more deceptive - fractional ownership investments or scams. Best to rent an apartment for 2weeks when you chose to visit Dubai. This ownership scheme restricts you to just this building and you would have to compete with possibly 100+ other timeshare owners for a time slot on when to use the property. Maintenance cost can vary in coming years of which you would have minimal say. Exit clause are not transparent. Bottom-line: Stay Away + agree with TB - Handover in 2011 likely. Still lots to do here.

I actually think, the Torch would be ideal for fraction ownership :cheers:


Interesting date for DU connections:

http://www.du.ae/en/athome/homeservice-readiness.html

And if you want broadband.....you'll have to pay extortionate monthly fees
to get anything other than the ridiculous 256k basic service from http://www.du.ae/

http://i40.tinypic.com/2i7bczk.jpg

That's cheap. When compared to the open market sale of your soul that has to take place before you enter into any kind of contract with one of the UAE's fine telecommunications outfits.

:applause::applause: Congratulations Naz you managed to write a whole load of bollocks 4000 times. You must give you arse a headache man with the crap you write:bash:

^^ Thank you, I couldn't have done it without people like you.

This ownership scheme restricts you to just this building and you would have to compete with possibly 100+ other timeshare owners for a time slot on when to use the property. Maintenance cost can vary in coming years of which you would have minimal say. Exit clause are not transparent. Bottom-line: Stay Away + agree with TB - Handover in 2011 likely. Still lots to do here.


I don't agree. I've got three lots of fractional ownership slots in TT. Doing it this way suited me, as I didn't want to have to borrow a lot of money. I will use one of the weeks occasionally myself, and will rent out the rest. If there is nobody who wants to rent at that time, I will just have to go myself!

You aren't restricted to this building - you can swap and go anywhere in the world. Yes, there are other fractional ownerships, but there are a limited number of apartments available at any one time, so I think the possibility of renting them out is high. I have got all the two winter half term holidays for mine.

Although the maintenance costs are high, they are fixed, and the first two years are relatively cheap. The apartments will be refitted every three years, and anything left over at the end of the term (if anything is left) will be split between the fractional owners.

The money you pay for the fractional ownership slots is paid to independent trustees, and I am very happy so far with the scheme. I paid my money that I had into the trust, so don't have to rely on renting out to pay loans or mortgages. Even if I don't rent at every opportunity, I believe that the rental I get will repay what the fractional ownership cost. Any money made when the apartments are sold at the end of the term will come to me.

I'm not a property investor, just someone looking for a nice place to go for a week or two in the winter, which pays for itself, with (hopefully) a bit extra left over at the end.

Has the 75% topping out milestone been achieved?
Looking at the photos above of the pool area,has there been any further work done or does it still look the same?

Has the 75% topping out milestone been achieved?
Looking at the photos above of the pool area,has there been any further work done or does it still look the same?

Not sure about the pool, as I haven't been out there for three weeks now. But no, the 75% milestone hasn't been reached, as that'd be the 63rd floor, and I think they're on the 58th now. Plus, there's also the torch-like feature to be constructed before the building qualifies as topped-out.

They are in level 63 as of today

They are in level 63 as of today

They can't possibly be on 63, 61 at a push, but most probably level 60... 63 would be wishful thinking, however I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. :)

They can't possibly be on 63, 61 at a push, but most probably level 60... 63 would be wishful thinking, however I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. :)
Think 61 at best ? Imre are you around ?

I'm sure they were on 56 or 57 a week ago, so if they're on anything beginning with a 6 now, they're making remarkable progress.

Not sure about the pool, as I haven't been out there for three weeks now. But no, the 75% milestone hasn't been reached, as that'd be the 63rd floor, and I think they're on the 58th now. Plus, there's also the torch-like feature to be constructed before the building qualifies as topped-out.

Are you still holding out for the Torch like feature?

The Point has been stripped of all it's features.

Think 61 at best ? Imre are you around ?

Correct - Finished 60, now working on 61

Good progress. I am in Dubai next week so post some pics then.

Are you still holding out for the Torch like feature?

The Point has been stripped of all it's features.

Don't think that totally true TB , some features yes but not "all" - must admit
I liked the curved elemenets top and bottom on the POINT and that has gone

I will ask SP about the TORCH element because that is integral to the DESIGN of TT

Not sure about the pool, as I haven't been out there for three weeks now. But no, the 75% milestone hasn't been reached, as that'd be the 63rd floor, and I think they're on the 58th now. Plus, there's also the torch-like feature to be constructed before the building qualifies as topped-out.


Mark, the 75% point is floor 61 as the tower is 81 floors high and not 84 as this thread suggests.

1 ground floor
4 podium levels
1 Health Spa/Gym
75 residential floors

The highest 3 bed is on floor 73 and then there are the duplex penthouses making 75 in total.

So the tower is actually 81 floors. I took this info off the plans in the site office last time i was in Dubai. :cheers:

I don't agree. I've got three lots of fractional ownership slots in TT. Doing it this way suited me, as I didn't want to have to borrow a lot of money. I will use one of the weeks occasionally myself, and will rent out the rest. If there is nobody who wants to rent at that time, I will just have to go myself!

You aren't restricted to this building - you can swap and go anywhere in the world. Yes, there are other fractional ownerships, but there are a limited number of apartments available at any one time, so I think the possibility of renting them out is high. I have got all the two winter half term holidays for mine.

Although the maintenance costs are high, they are fixed, and the first two years are relatively cheap. The apartments will be refitted every three years, and anything left over at the end of the term (if anything is left) will be split between the fractional owners.

The money you pay for the fractional ownership slots is paid to independent trustees, and I am very happy so far with the scheme. I paid my money that I had into the trust, so don't have to rely on renting out to pay loans or mortgages. Even if I don't rent at every opportunity, I believe that the rental I get will repay what the fractional ownership cost. Any money made when the apartments are sold at the end of the term will come to me.

I'm not a property investor, just someone looking for a nice place to go for a week or two in the winter, which pays for itself, with (hopefully) a bit extra left over at the end.


Funnily enough timeshare/fractional owners are better protected than us freeholders!

Due to UK timeshare law all Fractional Owners payments have been frozen!

Mark, the 75% point is floor 61 as the tower is 81 floors high and not 84 as this thread suggests.

1 ground floor
4 podium levels
1 Health Spa/Gym
75 residential floors

The highest 3 bed is on floor 73 and then there are the duplex penthouses making 75 in total.

So the tower is actually 81 floors. I took this info off the plans in the site office last time i was in Dubai. :cheers:

What about mechanical floors? There are 2 in the middle and at least one if not more at the top.

Think 61 at best ? Imre are you around ?

yes, I am here:)

08/May/2009

The Torch

http://i40.tinypic.com/nq9xk6.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/34jc27d.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/egz77m.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/spcg92.jpg

What about mechanical floors? There are 2 in the middle and at least one if not more at the top.

Is that why you have 84 floors in the thread title ? So 81 actual floors plus 3 mechanical floors = 84 in total ?

That makes sense to me now. Thanks. :cheers:

IMRE.

Thanks as usual great pictures - what a great job you have and do !

2 floors in 8 days moving up quickly now

Hope to see you again soon

Is that why you have 84 floors in the thread title ? So 81 actual floors plus 3 mechanical floors = 84 in total ?

That makes sense to me now. Thanks. :cheers:

1 ground floor
4 podium levels
1 Health Spa/Gym
75 residential floors
2 double height mech floor A
2 double height mech floor B

TOTAL = 85 :dunno:

1 ground floor
4 podium levels
1 Health Spa/Gym
75 residential floors
2 double height mech floor A
2 double height mech floor B

TOTAL = 85 :dunno:

Has anyone received a demand for 3000 aed for select to operate oqood? !!

^^

Did your demand come from Select Group or Torch Select Ltd?

^^

Did your demand come from Select Group or Torch Select Ltd?

from select group

Yeah and 3000 aed is an introductory offer, they advise RERA has said they can charge upto 5000 aed per property, "so pay up now before we charge you more" :ohno:

Has anyone received a demand for 3000 aed for select to operate oqood? !!

No but if I do they can stick it, I paid my 2% almost a year ago and it is still not registered. Perhaps they are charging you because you have not paid the 2% fee yet.

No but if I do they can stick it, I paid my 2% almost a year ago and it is still not registered. Perhaps they are charging you because you have not paid the 2% fee yet.

2% ?? Should have been just 1% per unit Steve.

Yes sorry I paid 1%, select have to pay the other 1%. long day :)

..

Yeah and 3000 aed is an introductory offer, they advise RERA has said they can charge upto 5000 aed per property, "so pay up now before we charge you more" :ohno:

Should we fly to dubai and pay the land dept directly? does anyone know if we can do this at the weekend? just drop in?

Should we fly to dubai and pay the land dept directly? does anyone know if we can do this at the weekend? just drop in?

Scooby just booked a flight to Dubai! who wants to meet up? where's the party!!

I don't agree. I've got three lots of fractional ownership slots in TT. Doing it this way suited me, as I didn't want to have to borrow a lot of money. I will use one of the weeks occasionally myself, and will rent out the rest. If there is nobody who wants to rent at that time, I will just have to go myself!

You aren't restricted to this building - you can swap and go anywhere in the world. Yes, there are other fractional ownerships, but there are a limited number of apartments available at any one time, so I think the possibility of renting them out is high. I have got all the two winter half term holidays for mine.

Although the maintenance costs are high, they are fixed, and the first two years are relatively cheap. The apartments will be refitted every three years, and anything left over at the end of the term (if anything is left) will be split between the fractional owners.

The money you pay for the fractional ownership slots is paid to independent trustees, and I am very happy so far with the scheme. I paid my money that I had into the trust, so don't have to rely on renting out to pay loans or mortgages. Even if I don't rent at every opportunity, I believe that the rental I get will repay what the fractional ownership cost. Any money made when the apartments are sold at the end of the term will come to me.

I'm not a property investor, just someone looking for a nice place to go for a week or two in the winter, which pays for itself, with (hopefully) a bit extra left over at the end.

I'm being quoted £16k for a 2 bed Marina facing apartment, in weeks 15 and 16 (Easter hols). Is this too high? Did you get a lawyer or solicitor involved or are you happy that Select are all above board?

Most likely will have a full marina view for 2 or 3 years after handover followed by a partial marina view between 2 towers, although if only on the 10th floor it is possbile that the view will be completely blocked if there will be a tall podium on a tower in front. Quality is similar to the point tower, perhaps slightly better and with better location and podium facilities with large pool with landscaping etc.

A lawyer is probably overkill but that is a persaonl thing. I don't have one and I am buying.

Despite what TB says, in my opinion handover should be by Sept 2010 as pace is now faster than expected.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/54i2pw.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/6zaqtw.jpg

http://docs.google.com/FilePage?id=d5rhnmx_15db6qccdf

Does anyone have a photo of what the view is and might be from a Marina facing corner apartment? View is really important but then again if I'm only there 2 weeks a year and there's plenty of other things to do how long will I actually be sat in doors (In April) looking out of my window? I've been to hotels in Spain where there are no views at all and sat by a pool and been happy.
Is the beach within walking distance too?
cheers

Does anyone have a photo of what the view is and might be from a Marina facing corner apartment? View is really important but then again if I'm only there 2 weeks a year and there's plenty of other things to do how long will I actually be sat in doors (In April) looking out of my window? I've been to hotels in Spain where there are no views at all and sat by a pool and been happy.
Is the beach within walking distance too?
cheers

Mike,

If I were going to lay down £16k I would certainly go and look at the site and what it has to offer before parting with my cash.

Time spent on reconnaissance is worth tenfold in combat.

Scooby just booked a flight to Dubai! who wants to meet up? where's the party!!

Scooby I have issues to solve and happy to meet you please pm me.

Mike P get a lawyer to look at it and as HT said get down there and have a look. You can walk to the beach, at present there is a monster dual carridgeway to cross with no bridge access. I would spend the 16k on a good hotel for 5 years, be called sir and have no aggro, your call. Alternativley you can get a stinking cab for £1 and piss of the driver for the short ride, they are becoming very difficult.

OK now be warned. The perspective here was distorted a bit so that I could get a larger viewing field. This makes the towers appear further than they are in real life.


Marina view

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4476/67204886.jpg


That large blue tower (Damac Heights) will probably not be built.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6910/63730754.jpg


Sea view (or tower view)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/895/88452049.jpg


Without Damac Heights

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7437/55689551.jpg


Looking down the row of towers.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7185/75731420.jpg

Great work malec, can you add the kebab so he knows what may happen.

^^No, no - add some greenery there. Maybe with a fairground with ferris wheel, would look much better!

Only dreamers can dream Sunny.........

^^whoever dreamt up those kebab towers needs to seek professional help!