Well looks like there has been a change in the Torch....Maybe they worked out they don't need it as a service level they have sufficent space on other service floors

Dubai Civil Engineering has won the US $190 million (AED700 million) contract to build the 80-storey Torch Tower in Dubai — one of the tallest new residential buildings in the world.

The contractor claimed victory in a three-way race, which also saw Arabtec and Arabian Construction Company compete for the super-tall structure.

The tower could become a defining landmark on the rapidly growing Dubai skyline as a result of a massive LED display, which will be installed at the top of the tower.

The display will be made from a flame-shaped poly-carbon structure, capable of carrying text or to be used as structural lighting.

“It will be somewhere in the region of 30 to 40 metres and it will be fully programmable, so for example on National Day, it could carry the national flag or the Olympic symbol, during the Olympics,” said a project insider.

The detailed design of the tower is still in progress and the final number of levels may be increased.

The tower could technically reach 86 storeys, although five of these are likely to be non-residential levels accommodating building services at the apex of the structure.

“The design of the building has been very much influenced by the M&E works and with its future FM requirements in mind — to that extent we have taken a whole life costing approach,” said Nick Edwards, sales and marketing director at developer Dubai Select.

Edwards added: “We will be using a bonded post-tension system on the structure and slipform shuttering.

“We are also using very high performance concrete, which will be up to 100 newtons within parts of the structure and at least 70 newtons in most of it.”

The building will also incorporate and over-sized goods lift, which will eventually become an over-sized passenger lift when construction work is completed. It means that residents will be able to move in much bigger pieces of furniture than is possible in most other high-rise structures.

Piling and shoring work is already underway on the building, which is scheduled for completion by the end of 2008.

Dubai Select chief executive, Rahail Aslam, said: “We wanted best-of-the-breed partnerships to lead the Torch Tower development to ensure that the project will achieve completion with a strict quality level and in a timescale that will fully satisfy our customers.”

Aslam added that DCE was chosen after a round of stringent and exhaustive evaluation procedures.

National Engineering Bureau is the detailed design consultant on the building.

:eek: i seriously hope that LED display is going to be installed and not cut off like the crown of marina crown ;)

this would be amazing :D


:naughty:
it could carry the olympic symbol .......

wonder if this causes any slight changes in the design

at least it's going to start very soon

I just have one question. Does the Dubai Municipality require the buildings in Dubai to be earth quake resistant?

Just heard from Dubai Select that the long-awaited Dubai Property laws for non-Emaratis are imminent, and could even become effective by the end of the month! Great news for everyone who's bought property in Dubai, as not only does this cement the whole freehold ownership idea but also expect a big increase in real estate prices once the law comes into effect.

Roll on 2006...

^^ read investment thread for the article related to that.

I just have one question. Does the Dubai Municipality require the buildings in Dubai to be earth quake resistant?
yes, we design all buildings in sesmic zone 2 which is 1 down from places like LA, Japan etc

Hi All

Well, it's a few weeks since my last visit here. Are we nearer to 5 men and a wheel barrow, or still at 4?

Room 4505 (if they work hard)

Now we have 4 men, 2 cows and a new fifth man to milk the cows and make the tea.

Hi Everyone

First time we have posted here. I read the post about the awarding of the construction contract and saw they estimate completion end of 2008...I thought completion was due for June 2008. Does this mean that we get compensation under the contract for completing late?

Even so...its good news that things at last appear to be happening...that is, apart from the 5 men 2 cows and a wheelbarrow!!

btw...we have bought 4305

Well if you get compensation or not depends on the contract it will mention somewhere no doubt, when, if and under what circumstances compensation is due, if any.

Not bought in the Torch but never the less i hope it starts soon too.

The expected completion date is still June 2008 Dubai Select say and they remain confident it will be completed.

I guess the workers are going to have to work extremely hard to get it complete within 30 months or so.

^^ talking of slavery
:rofl:

Compensation is only applicable if completion is later than end of 2008.
So I guess completion will be somewhere between September and December 2008.
I would like to see it happen mid 2008 but this is very optimisitic.

Dubai Select just called to see if I was interested in buying another Torch apartment - apparently 3 service floors are now being turned into apartments and the Air-Con system will now comprise of 'pipes around the building'

Bit concerned that the service these floors would have provided is now being compomised - especially for something as key as Air-Con.

I hope this means that the annual buidling management charge will reduce if there are 3 less floors to manage!

"Pipes around the building" - that sounds terrible and prone to failure. I would imagine that this would increase the service charges rather than decrease. I am very concerned by this move from Dubai Select.

I would also expect and appreciate a formal notice of change from Dubai Select regarding this. Why is it that existing customers are the last to know anything!

Sounds like they're looking for ways to make more money...

Too many bad vibes coming out of Dubai now....Torch change design, Miramar tower in the Marina withdrawn / Put on Hold, Dubailand told to put future releases on hold and complete whats been launched, meaning it will not be complete if ever by the original dates.

And thats only the stuff from this week.

Anyway if Dubai Select think this piping system will cool building then i understand them making use of the space but like Dubai Steve said they should tell the exsisiting customers too especially since they have a customer login section on there website.

i am sure these minor changes like the torch issue happen everyday in dubai, just we don't know of it.. ;)

It seams they will use "district cooling" to reduce the electricity consumption for the A/C (some 30 - 40% or something), that maybe was not part of the initial design.

All the new towers in Dubai are using this technique.

District cooling seams way forward in cooling techniques....Just do a google search...Torch owners should be glad the tower is going to use this cooling system and off course it also gives the devlopers more space too, so everyone wins except for eletricity company :D

I think this shows what the view may look like from the Torch? But I think it would also be possible to see Infinity Tower and Grosvenor House because the viewer will be to the left more.

http://homepage.mac.com/jimmy/.Pictures/dubaimarina/IMAGE_061.jpg

Great view of the marina. Lets hope nothing more than a 13 storey building is built in front of the Torch then.

So where's that picture taken from i.e what location

46th floor of le reve.

And how do you know that FLO were you holding his hand when he was taking it :D

no offence to you Dubai steve, but i hate know it alls :jk:

nothing easier than figuring out where this has been taken from :D

let's hope they don't build anything in front of it
they should transform the sales centre in something else once there is no more need for it

today

http://i1.tinypic.com/ngu24i.jpg

Looks like some minor activity has taken place.

Must be a shortage of tea in Dubai soon.

:rofl: nice one.

obviously those two guys from dubai select don't care to visit SSC now that they sold the tower... :bash:

there really is something happening
all the machinery has been brought to the site and the site office containers are now in place

now everything is set up and it should start work finally

There's a rumour 4 spades and a teaspoon are on the way! :cheers:

There's also a rumour that most ppl on this forum are getting sick of cheap cynicism and lousy comedy....but its just a rumour at this stage...

there is a rumour that these people should better leave the forum. :cheers:

i'll start another rumour on the basis of dubai-lover's invaluable photographic updates (much more reliable than dubai-select's website):

THE TORCH IS FLICKERING INTO LIFE!! bring on the tea trolley.

"There's a rumour 4 spades and a teaspoon are on the way!"

Wouldn't that be something... the first skyscraper ever built with a teaspoon. Yet another record for the city ^^.

Here are a few photos from 1st Feb. I flew out to Dubai to have a look at the site having purchased a one bed a while back. There are quite a few Indian workmen now on site, had a word with one of the foremen who told me the piling work will take about six months and they are to start this soon. Good news but this will give them less than two years to complete by June 2008, seems a bit optimistic to me and I think it will run on past this date.

Here's the links to the photos:

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=nh0uoy
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=nl242v
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=nlu4qb
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=nlu7pg
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=nluc0g

Looks like workers form Marina Heights have joined the tea break party at the Torch :D

Nice pic's

Well, Dubai's finest construction companies are well-renowned for going at the rate of knots (around 1 floor per week as in the case of Burj Dubai) when they finally get going. Using that as a very rough basis, we're looking at an estimated construction time of around 18 months plus extra time allowed for finishing touches. So 2 years doesnt seem all that impossible after all. Oh and btw, of course I'm sounding optimistic, duh!, like a few on here I've bloody bought an apartment too!!!

you forgot an important issue named ground work.

Once again I have to commend members of this forum for their investigative skills in revealing information before we are able to confirm the details publicly ourselves.

It is always the intention of Dubai Select to make sure that our purchasers receive any factual updates relating to our developments directly from us which is one of the reasons we encourage them to regularly visit our own private members' area we are focussing on improving regularly. It is critical to our integrity that information is accurate and confirmed before we announce it in the public domain, however in reality it is hard to prevent rumours being generated before we are able to formally let you know.

In response to one recent topic in these pages;

Subsequent to awarding the construction contract for The Torch to Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE) the construction programme containing the detailed specifications and methods which deal with the sub elements of the building are now substantially complete.
One positive outcome is the breakthrough to be able to deliver heating and cooling from an external infrastructure as part of the Dubai Marina district, removing the need to install and maintain independent airconditioning systems within The Torch itself. This proven technology, as many you have noted, is excellent news to all existing purchasers in the development. This decision has no impact for owners of apartments on other floors, other than the saving and efficiency which will obviously benefit all residents.
This has also enabled Dubai Select to meet the continued demand for one and two bedroom apartments in the tower through the provision of three new residential floors occupying space previously reserved for technical services by the concept architects of The Torch.

Finally I would like to add once again that we respect this forum as a medium for sharing opinions and we do not wish to deflect from its purpose by using it for commercial means. As such we would recommend that you contact us directly with any queries and we will do our utmost to provide you with the latest information. In the meantime we will continue our endeavours to make sure our purchasers do not hear any news without hearing it from us first and aspire to the frequency of posting that this forum seems to have reached!

www.dubaiselect.com

thanks for that piece of information, but now, when DOES ground work finally start? is there any soil testing underway?

and you will not be able to provide new information without we knowing that already, this forum is too well informed :D:D

Thanks for posting Giles, I haven't heard anything from Dubai Select as yet regarding the district cooling system but it does sound a good idea especially with energy savings of around 30 to 40%. However I was wondering whether anybody had any idea how this system actually works. For example, are there pipes running around the apartments or perhaps under the floor ??? Will it all look okay ??? Will each apartment still be able to have individual control of it's temperature ???? etc..etc..

Further to my post on this forum yesterday I felt I should emphasise that Dubai Select has reduced the amount of technical space originally reserved in this tower from double height to single storey, however three service floors still remain at floors 22, 38 and 54. The additional residential floors will occupy the new space afforded by the progressive development of our construction plans.
We have no detailed plans for how the air-conditioning will be delivered throughout the tower at this stage, but as soon the final solution is in place we will be able to communicate to all purchasers more precisely how the decisions we have made will benefit them through efficiencies gained in consumption and maintainnance costs.

giles,

thank you for info and I might add very professionally put also. I realize that no matter how hard u try in explaining dubai select's position relating to this prjct.... in this forum ; ain't gonna be good enough for some. so plse don't waste your time anymore. 2008 Torch will be delivered, whether June or December makes no diffrenc imo as long as within the year. ull never let Torch go - will u now !!! get a life ppl and stop picking n ppl who are trying to conduct biz in a fair way.

:lol: if you don't want us to comment, open your own very special the torch owners forum and have fun :cheers:

Good point MC. I thought this forum was generally about ppl either genuinely interested in The Torch or those who have already purchased within it. Otherwise, why would one want to comment on it??? Defeats me. Its always good to get a balanced opinion in this forums and Dubai Select's own comments are much appreciated but people who come here and right essays with either no real interested whatsoever in the Torch, as an investor or otherwise, I think we'll agree that those timewasters are best going elsewhere.

and the point is Naz ..am totally for open discussions yielding in sound outcomes that are based mainly in logical conclusions. I don't have a problem at all with countering a valid point as long as it is objective. however, picking n bs to an otherwise totally complet and very well articulated post as gilesb was,, i think is just not right really.

but people who come here and right essays with either no real interested whatsoever in the Torch, as an investor or otherwise, I think we'll agree that those timewasters are best going elsewhere.


NOW SHUT THE F*** UP!!

this is a skyscraper forum, we are not into your real estate or investor related bullshit. damn, this thread is about the "building" the torch, not the "investment opportunity" the torch, and if it construction ( and this is what we are interested in) does not start, even though it was said so, it is obvious that there might appear some sarcastic comments.

Sorry MC I don't agree with your comments, why is Giles "wasting his time" .....sorry I don't get it. His comments are very valid and appreciated. I am very grateful for his comments regarding the questions I raised about the cooling system. Why are his comments "not good enough for some" ??? Am I not allowed to raise this issue then ??? Of course people such as myself are keen to obtain as much information as possible which is only natural as they have spent a great deal of money on the purchase of their apartment. Surely this is the whole point of a forum and why we post here. I really enjoy reading everybody's views whether I agree with them or not. Also I have no idea why you think completion in either June 2008 or December 2008 makes no difference. Have you won the lottery then ?? Surely if completion is completed on time in June this would be better for everybody. I'm funding my purchase by borrowing the funds and the sooner I can start renting it out and obtaining some income the better financially it will be for me, and everybody else I suspect. Why would it be otherwise ???

Of course people such as myself are keen to obtain as much information as possible which is only natural as they have spent a great deal of money on the purchase of their apartment. Surely this is the whole point of a forum and why we post here.


:bash: :rant: NO this is not the whole point of this forum.

this is maybe the reason why you post here, but this does not happen according to the purpose of this forum.

i have to agree wit flo here. The main purpose of SSC is to bring skyscraper fans together for discussion on buildings and architecture, not real estate investment oppurtunities. The fact that SSC mods and admins allow such discussions to take place is a luxury for you investors and real estate agents out there, appreciate it.

Morris... u misunderstood my post, we are basically n the same page here - Giles comments are greatly appreciated and valid...no ? about it.

2ndly - You most dfntly have the right to raise questions in every level you feel like as it relates to this project, whether it's construction-financial- or real estate-wise, u name it... go ahead and shoot - ppl in this forum are knwlgble and will help you. don't let though others tell you otherwise. no member here owns these forums and those who pretend they do, in trying to set parameters... need a life besides post count and some serious growing up to do.

My point in ''giles wasting his time" was in the sense that regardless of what he does to explain his position and accomodate every inquiry out there.......ppl in this forum will always find smthn wrong, is never good enough for whatever reason...why that is...beats me really.

i have to agree wit flo here. The main purpose of SSC is to bring skyscraper fans together for discussion on buildings and architecture, not real estate investment oppurtunities. The fact that SSC mods and admins allow such discussions to take place is a luxury for you investors and real estate agents out there, appreciate it.

then this shld have been the standard all along. Marina Heights exploited it to the bone and no one whether mod or member bitched about it. in terms of agreeing ....if you are going to approve and tolerate as a mod prophanities then that's smthng that just doesn't make any sense.

I can already imagine Marina Heights & The Torch residents having a neighbourhood war and throwing rotten tomatoes from their balconies :D

Good post MORRISMARINA. I share your views exactly!!

MC what the hell are you thinking (wrt to your comment about completion dates)???
Late completion makes a HUGE difference to ALL owners. The Completion date is JUNE 2008. DUBAI SELECT MUST do their best to stick to the completion date, despite their 'get-out of jail' contract clause, if they wish to gain a good reputation and credibility in the Tower development market.

MC think before you write (and use a good spell checker please!)

Good post MORRISMARINA. I share your views exactly!!

MC what the hell are you thinking (wrt to your comment about completion dates)???
Late completion makes a HUGE difference to ALL owners. The Completion date is JUNE 2008. DUBAI SELECT MUST do their best to stick to the completion date, despite their 'get-out of jail' contract clause, if they wish to gain a good reputation and credibility in the Tower development market.

MC think before you write (and use a good spell checker please!)


don't know exactly what u mean by "think bfr writting" but if ur referring to my comments relating to torch completion, I only stated what's already considered to b the norm in dxb.... and most will agree that date postponements aren't anything new for prjcts waiting cmpltion - that's a fact. I'd say unfrtntly it has become the norm. I agree w/u that Dubai Select not only must do but has an OBLIGATION to every single owner in doing its best for June 08 dlvry. whether that's doable remains to be seen.

...it's called abbreviation...spell checking has nthg to do w/it.

"...it's called abbreviation...spell checking has nthg to do w/it."

It's not abbreviation.....it's called laziness.

If posters wish to be taken seriously, they should write posts properly....you're not a teenager sending text messages from your mobile phone.

Well, this thread is completely ruined - again ...

Firstly, Dubaiflo, I will refrain from stooping to your low level of using profanity to get your point across (a sign of lack of intelligence I guess) but will point out to you that if it wasn't for us "bullshit investors", your glorious "skyscrapers" would never get off the ground! You'd be looking at 2 story wind-towers in and around Shindagha and this forum would be called "upstairs downstairs, or something"!!!

Secondly, if cheap, sarcastic and nonsensical comments are "valid" on this forum, then any serious concerns raised by people who happen to have invested their hard earned cash into such projects as the Torch are definitely also valid.

Oh and btw, calm down...who you trying to impress? Its just another net forum, for pete's sake!

Right, back to work.

my point has been confirmed by the mod here, so i am convinced i am right.
to assume i suffer from lack of intelligence, oh if you think so, i am sure you know me veeery well, so it is more than likely you are totally correct.

it is rather a sign of lack of intelligence to judge someone withouth having spoken to him only once.





no member here owns these forums and those who pretend they do, in trying to set parameters... need a life besides post count and some serious growing up to do.



unfortunately there IS a forumer who OWNs this forum , and set the topic and rules and the topic is, once again, skyscrapers.
and unfortunately i have even been confirmed by those people who are making the rules here, the moderators.


then this shld have been the standard all along. Marina Heights exploited it to the bone and no one whether mod or member bitched about it. in terms of agreeing ....


read the marina heights thread again, and you will notice at least 20 comments to switch to the investment thread for further 'when is the next installment to be paid' - like questions.

but will point out to you that if it wasn't for us "bullshit investors", your glorious "skyscrapers" would never get off the ground!

Oh and btw, calm down...who you trying to impress? Its just another net forum, for pete's sake!


oh have you ever heard of hotels and offices :)

2nd i am sorry for being offensive or rude, but this is maybe the 15th time i had to say the same things...

I guess everyone is just bored while we wait for construction to start on this one. :)

Maybe we should go back to as it was before... no real estate, skyscraper related topics only.

its gone a bit mental, people are starting to take the piss, claiming to have 'the right' to turn this into their own private real estate club, and wondering what the noninvestors are doing.

in case you havent noticed the UAE section goes far beyond the torch, the marina, new dubai, and even dubai itself.



i dont use a spell checker,mainly because i havent got the OED rammed up one of my orrafices, in case you are about to start whineing.

thanks for your help, and just to prevent those guys above from blaming you for whatever, you have been living in dubai for .. ehm 20? years? and you are older than 18? you are british etc etc.

"...it's called abbreviation...spell checking has nthg to do w/it."

It's not abbreviation.....it's called laziness.

If posters wish to be taken seriously, they should write posts properly....you're not a teenager sending text messages from your mobile phone.



at least try and make an inteligent argument against post. Picks on abbrv or non-abbrv r just childish & don't make sense. getting point across is what counts.

one more thing though, just drop your new adopted nick use one u had.

Any post related to The Torch, is in my humble opinion, relevant to this thread. End of story. The remaining issue is how seriously/sarcastically/informatively ppl want to use their right to post in this thread. But I'm sure we're all adults who can use our own judgement on that one. I for one, have bought an apartment in the Torch but im not an idiot who's gona start asking stupid questions like "When is my next installment?/If i miss a payment by 2 days, what is the penalty?/Does anyone want to buy my apartment coz im having second thoughts?" etc etc.

My questions and concerns are all very serious and genuine. To see ppl questioning the construction start dates, building modifications etc are all relevant in my opinion. Those who are on here to just take the piss know who they are, the rest of us i believe are using this forum for the right purposes.

the problem with Torch thread is that besides being trashed on regular basis, has no MOD intervention whatsoever when things get out of hand. Rules state clearly against prophanities used btw members and measures that need b taken in such cases...yet MODs instead back them up. I mean go figure. wish trances would run the place again.

I think it's time this discussion stopped. It would be a sensible idea if everyone agreed no profanities and no text messaging - it is extremely discourteous to those who do not speak English as a first language or who find swearing offensive.
End of discussion. Stick to the point of the forum.

I know this is not directly Torch related I suppose but....I was out in Dubai having a good look at the Marina a few weeks ago and tried to get onto Jemeriah beach walking south across the temporary bridge towards Grosvenor House tower area. I eventually got onto the beach by walking through a construction workers area and when on the beach I got talking to a local resident who advised me that the whole of the beach would be a private area and not accessible other than for the beach fronting properties. I'm a bit concerned about this as one of the reasons for buying in the Marina was that it was so close to the beach. Does anybody know whether the beach will be private as I would be really dissappointed if I could not get access to it ??? (The Marina will be great of course, but there's nothing like walking along the beach shoreline).

^^ This has been disscused countless of times. The beach is PRIVATE.

This doesn't mean you can't walk in the beach, but you can't use it for sunbathing or swiming. The beach belongs to the hotels builds alongside it, apart the coastline in front of Jumeirah Beach Residence, which will be available to JBR residents.

Bottom line, JBR is the ONLY development in marina with guaranteed beach access. All other residents would have to pay the Hotels for using it.

give or take 3 metres :)

but yes, discussed many times. search for it.

^^ i am still convinced you will be able to sunbath or swin on the beach on the marina with a bit of cheating and cleverness ;)

anyway, the beach will be so crowded once let's say 20.000 people live in the marina at the same time you woll not be able to enter :D:D

Any post related to The Torch, is in my humble opinion, relevant to this thread. End of story. The remaining issue is how seriously/sarcastically/informatively ppl want to use their right to post in this thread. But I'm sure we're all adults who can use our own judgement on that one. I for one, have bought an apartment in the Torch but im not an idiot who's gona start asking stupid questions like "When is my next installment?/If i miss a payment by 2 days, what is the penalty?/Does anyone want to buy my apartment coz im having second thoughts?" etc etc.

My questions and concerns are all very serious and genuine. To see ppl questioning the construction start dates, building modifications etc are all relevant in my opinion. Those who are on here to just take the piss know who they are, the rest of us i believe are using this forum for the right purposes.


ok. i am fine with that one :)

^ Of course you can; I've done that. :D

can anyone advise me where to get some nice curtains for my torch apartment?
................................calm down, only joking.

^^ SEDAR Emirates or MOSTAFAWAI ... and i'm not jocking. ;)

getting worried about my investments in this place... dunno about the rest...

OK you guys, here's a serious skyscraper related question involving the torch (and others for that matter). What is truly going to be the tallest residential tower in the Marina (and possibly the world)...coz im hearing conflicting reports now.

First, i thought it was gonna be Princess tower, at over 100 floors and around 400m, but then i've read that it might be 100 or so floors, but its only gonna be 340m (5 metres below The Torch?????)...So which is it?

Then, 23 Marina comes into play, being 90F standing at around 380 metres..so is THIS the one thats gonna be the tallest?

Any offers?

Princess tower was originally supposed to be the tallest at 90F, then 23 marina came along at 380m so the Princess tower guys jacked up the height to over 400m and will be 107 floors high

I wanna start a rumour that upon hearing this, Dubai Select have changed the plan and are building 108 floors at 450m.....but its entirely false and made up...so i wont....(hehehehe :-D)

Is there any point buying in the Marina if we don,t have access to the beach? this is worrying!

Well like has been mentioned many times only development with free beech access is going to be JBR, the rest can have access but pay for it.

But there is nothing stopping people from strolling down the beach up 3m form the sea, just makes it hard to have a sun bathe.

Me i'm happy with just a nice stroll as the sun is going down, so really depends on what you want the beach access for and as far as i am aware i have not seen any tower in the marina ever say that you get beach access.

Maybe for rental especially as hoilday apartment maybe an issue...but you could always buy beach access and include in the price of the rental but call it free beach access....it's called marketing :D

You can buy membership to one of the hotels and use their beach access. However I think there is a long waiting list and I am not sure if this is tansferable for your guests to use. However, the marina will be a tourist attraction in itself when complete. You also have the ability to rent on business lets or tourists in this location. If you buy in DubaiLand then you can only rent to tourists and they may prefer hotels anyway.

Well, isn't it the case that ppl who bought in the Marina did so to have access to er...the Marina? And those that wanted beach access bought in Jumeirah Beach Residence?

I dont think anyone bought an apartment in the Marina thinking they would get free access to the nearby beach. You have to either travel further on onto the untouched beaches beyond Jebel Ali, or further into town on either Jumeirah Beach Park (small fee i think 10Dhs) or the other side of the creek for free public access at Al-Mamzar beach.

So unfortunately, if you're after totally free access, there's a bit of travelling to do. Besides, if your "rich" enough to live in an apartment at Dubai Marina, you should be rich enough to afford a regular beach club membership (start from around £5000Dhs per year).

I personally don’t think it’s a huge deal.

Torch residents can still sunbathe by the outdoor pool in the Torch without having to worry about strollers accidentally kicking sand onto them and can also still stroll along the beach at their leisure.

It'll be interesting to see how they police the beach to stop non-members sun-bathing. i.e. perhaps members will have to plant a marker or flag next to where they're sunbathing.

I’m also interested to know how many sunbeds will be around the Torch pool and whether you have to pay to reserve and use these – Perhaps some German tourist style towel depositing at 4am will be on the cards!

The 'untouched' beaches of jebal ali are about to disappear as dubai water frount is constructed.

it might be the case that the beach clubs become vastly over subscribed as the marina's huge population arrives.

btw, those who are thinking of renting your apartments to holiday makers.
what do you make of all these new huge hotels announced over the last couple of weeks?
i for one am becoming very concerned.

Me too "Dubai", but dont forget private apartments have the following to their advantage:

Much bigger floor space, my apartment at the torch is 904 sqft, the equivalent in any of the surrounding hotels would be a large suite, costing in excess of £400 per night...

So its gona be down to price and privacy im guessing. Those ppl that will prefer renting an apartment over a hotel room will pay a lot less (current 1 bed apt rates between £600-750 per week compared to between £1200 and £3000 for the 5-star hotels).

So lets not get all that worried just yet. The idea about packaging beach access through one of the beach clubs and apartment rental is an excellent one I think. Now if only there's a way to make the annual beach club membership transferable to holiday lets. Perhaps a seperate package should be made available specifically for this purpose....

The simple answer is to find a really rich person who has a boat picks you up form marrina and takes you to his private beach on one of the world islands....Anyone know anyone like this :D

Dubai you have a point about all these hotels...it may just come down to location of dubai you want to be in and if you prefer self catering or not.

But it may also be the way you market your apartment to even win business from other people in the marina.

So does Dubai have no such thing as a public beach in the future???

The biggest totally free public beach is Al-Mamzar, towards Sharjah, and I think it will be the case for some time to come. The trouble is, Dubai's authorities and private investors know too well that any stretch of beach available in Dubai is extremely lucrative and there's bucket loads of money to be made from them, hence the membership charges.

Maybe the government should step in and create a public beach nearer the Marina or better still, seen as though us investors have ploughed money into "their" marina, they should have a small section of the beach exclusively for the Marina residents only! Now there's an idea!

Dubais is such an amazing city.

WOW!

they should have a small section of the beach exclusively for the Marina residents only! Now there's an idea!


i will eat my cat if that happens.

Isn't that what somebody said when they were told for the first time about plans to build an island in the shape of a giant palm tree which would house 40 hotels and accomodation for 60,000 people?

i will eat my cat if that happens.


Well Flo i might just start a campiagn to get this exclusive beech for marina residents ....no one said it had to be near the marina :D

Then i want to see you eat your cat and we can broadcast on Dubai Tv

Here here thedubailife! I'm backing ya all the way on that one! In fact, i've just wrote an email to Mr Alabaar, at Emaar! :laugh:

The biggest totally free public beach is Al-Mamzar, towards Sharjah, and I think it will be the case for some time to come. The trouble is, Dubai's authorities and private investors know too well that any stretch of beach available in Dubai is extremely lucrative and there's bucket loads of money to be made from them, hence the membership charges.


there is a large stretch of beach in jumeriah, just the other side of the burj al arab called wollongong beach, then a further stretch of beach up to the beach park, all free to access.

but it is being erroded heavily, so it might not be there by the time the torch is finished!

al mamzar, will be destroed by palm deira.

The worst beaches are now the ones that are going to be immediately within the frongs of the three palms. I stayed at Mina Seyahi last year and the beach was unbelievably filthy. It was full of a thick slimey residue (like an oil spill) and small stones and bits of concrete literally covered the whole beach. The issue is that there are no longer any waves within the areas directly below the palm frongs, its like sitting on a river bank.

I was in Dubai last month and I spoke to a representative from Nakheel who assured me that once the Palm was complete, the tide issue would be addressed and once again the sandy beach would be spotless.

It remains to be seen.

mina seyahi is dirty because of the maina being used as a rubbish dump.

the program on channel 5 last week showed how the coastline down the coast will be erroded. but if you live in the marina, the closest beach is wollongong, and it is quite big.

Anyway, im still confident that once all construction is complete (probably 2009) the beaches will be restored to their former glory. The authorities could simply not afford their degredation.

Anyway, im still confident that once all construction is complete (probably 2009) the beaches will be restored to their former glory. The authorities could simply not afford their degredation.


No No, the palms interfere with long shoe drift. the problem will coninue as lona as the palm is there.

although they hope the problem to calm 'down a little' after seperation of the palm. but its unlikely to ever stop as long as there is a palm island in the way.

Well.....the question I put about beach access has certainly generated some worthy comments, thanks to you all for not falling out and being nice to each other, it's so much better for this forum.
I must admit when I purchased my unit at the Torch I had no idea that a beach could be privatised. Wherever I've been on holiday in Europe the beach has been accessible to everybody at least not privatised to this exctent. And it just was not something that I thought would be restricted. I bought at the marina as it was near the beach so I'm a little disappointed.
However it appears there are some public beaches so all is not lost. I was looking a few years ago at buying a villa in Orlando, Florida but never went ahead and there's no beach in Orlando as it's inland, so I guess having no beach access is not the end of the world, there's loads more reasons why people holiday in Dubai, Dubailand will probably be a big pull just like Disneyworld.
Of course there is the pool at the Torch which I think will be great. I did hear talk also about an indoor pool, is this still in the design or has it been shelved ??
Also the outdoor pool is the road facing side of the Torch, does anybody know if we'll be able to catch the sun or is it in the wrong direction or, maybe going to be blocked out by the Pinnancle tower and all the others across the road ??
On another issue I contacted Dubai Select today about converting the small storage cupboard in my one bed unit into a small bathroom area. ie. a toilet and washbasin. All other one bed units at other towers and also International City etc... have another toilet and basin room in addition to the bathroom, which is really useful if like me the unit is to be used for holiday lets. This is the one design feature of the one beds which is lacking in my view. My idea has been forwarded to Dubai Select and they are to get back to me. I don't really want to have the hastle of converting it after completion, it may not even be possible due to access to waste pipes etc. and all the flooring would need to come up, a bloody nightmare. Much better to have an option of this while the Torch is being built. Dubai Select would have to charge a fee of course but in my view this would be well worth the cost. Does anybody else who has purchased a one bed feel the same ???

Wow Morris, that is absolutely the same thing i was thinking!!! First, i came up with the idea of a walk-in wardrobe, again, a luxury that seems to have been afforded in most of the latest 1-bed apartments on offer in Dubai. But then, I like yourself, looked at other similar 1-bed floorplans and too realised that they seem to all have a en-suite bathroom in the bedroom and then a seperate "powder" as they call it with a toilet and small handbasin...

So I too am now strongly considering this option.

Morris, please let me know how you get on with your enquiries with Dubai Select in this matter....

Cheers.

Yes Naz, I will let you know as soon as I hear from them, they say somebody will ring me back. It really will be worth trying to get Dubai Select to do this, obviously there must be an incentive in it for them, especially now all the one beds have been sold.
I reckon that most, if not all, one bed purchasers would be interested in this "powder room" idea if an option was gievn to them. With 120 one beds in the tower this could be a little additional money spinner for the developer (which let's face it, is what they're in this business for at the end of the day). And a great idea for us purchasers so long as the extra cost was fairly reasonable.

So what floor you purchased on Morris?

Floor 8 number 802 to be exact, overlooking the pool, so you'll have to come round for a coffee when it's built and say hello. I wanted something a bit higher and with a better view, but I was told this was all they had available (four months ago) as all the one beds had been sold apart from 801 & 802. (Not sure how true this was as somebody on this forum purchased "the last one" only a few weeks ago). I would have liked a two bed to be honest but I didn't have sufficient funds available to pay the extra, bearing in mind of course that I'm having to fund it without any rental income until June 2008. However I'm very happy with my one bed, they are a good size at 83 sq metres and reasonably priced. And the Torch is going to be the best looking building by far in the Marina. It's the stunning design of the building that made me want one.

So what floor are you Naz ????

Floor 8 number 802 to be exact, overlooking the pool, so you'll have to come round for a coffee when it's built and say hello. I wanted something a bit higher and with a better view, but I was told this was all they had available (four months ago) as all the one beds had been sold apart from 801 & 802. (Not sure how true this was as somebody on this forum purchased "the last one" only a few weeks ago). I would have liked a two bed to be honest but I didn't have sufficient funds available to pay the extra, bearing in mind of course that I'm having to fund it without any rental income until June 2008. However I'm very happy with my one bed, they are a good size at 83 sq metres and reasonably priced. And the Torch is going to be the best looking building by far in the Marina. It's the stunning design of the building that made me want one.

*Cough cough, splutter* Infinity Tower (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=257977) to name one amongst a few!

...sure your not a little biased?

Actually ocean heights is a really interesting tower in terms of design I think. It twists but not quite ;)

Yes Dubai I am a little biased I suppose.......... just followed your link, WOW....the Infinity Tower is stunning, first time I've seen that one.

Actually i dont like Infinity tower that much, not as part of a skyline. If it would stand for itself with a lot of green areas around it would be awesome. But i would not want to see it in a dense skyline.

Im on the 10th, sea view (or should i say Princess tower view hehehehe). Yes lets just hope the next 2 years fly by like the last 2 years. Whatever ppl think of the Torch, its gona be an iconic monument in the Marina, easily enough to hold its own even amongst such towers as Princess and Infinity, who are both great in their own ways. But i dont see it as a "us and them" situation at all, no, the more iconic buildings there are in the Marina, the better for all of us....Just look at how much increased business Jumeirah Beach Hotel, Wild Wadi, etc have all enjoyed thanks to the Burj! I want ppl to be proud to be staying anywhere in the Marina which will be amongst other things the great architecture and views within it.

Oh and Morris, btw, that person who purchased the last one was me!! You see what happened basically was an investor, who had purchased 20 apartments deal fell through, hence releasing some 1 beds back on the market. They are definately all sold out now though, coz my friend wanted one too, but he was turned away unfortunately.

I agee with all your comments Naz, some good points you've made here. Yes all the towers are nice in their own way.

In addition to the Torch and infinity towers,I also think The Trident Grand Residence is going to be one of the best in the marina.

talking about design, TGR doesn't stand a chance against infinity or ocean heights or even the troch.

but as overall development it is definetly among the best.

My personal 3 favourites are 1-INFINITY, 2-TORCH AND 3-OCEAN HEIGHTS, in terms of overall design, height and sheer ballsiness of the architects.

These 3 buildings, along with Princess tower, when complete will really put the Marina on the map so to speak.

I think somebody pointed out the only real disappointment earlier on, when they said that the real gems in the Marina, like Infinity and the Torch are built far to close to each other. If they could each be seen in relative isolation at some distance apart from each other, the individuality of each would have literally shone through. Being so close to each other doesnt really do any of them real justice, i think.

well infinity will stand alone more or less, only al marsa tower on the north/east side, which will be some metres away due to infinitiy's wide basement.

of course the torch will be rather squeezed.

Anbody know what the prices are like for the Infinity tower and how they compare to the Torch ??

Well i guess the Torch being somewhat "squeezed" was reflected in the pricing of its apartments (between 20-25% less than equivalent apts like Princess tower, Infinity, etc).

I'm trying to work out exactly there the Princess, Infinity & Ocean Heights towers will be situated in relation to the Torch. Does anybody have a map of the marina please ???

Infinity prices are considerably more expensive than The Torch. A 2 bedroom type 2 of 1326 square feet ranges from 1,430,000 AED on the 7th floor to 1,810,000AED on the 42nd floor. A 1 bedroom type 6 of 784 square feet on the 24th floor was 1,100,000AED and others on higher floors were upwards of 1,365,000AED. (Priced at the London Property Show three weeks ago)

I'm trying to work out exactly there the Princess, Infinity & Ocean Heights towers will be situated in relation to the Torch. Does anybody have a map of the marina please ???
Yes:

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/9339/new69qg.jpg

I love the way the Torch appears to be floating in mid-air kinda like a giant "David Blaine", but besides that, it looks great.

Wow....that's a great picture Malec. Many thanks. Seems to me the Infinity tower has by far the best position and Ocean Heights and Princess towers are very good as well being right on the front with a fantastic view. However like most things in life you do get what you pay for and those prices are way above the Torch figures. .............Ouch !!!

Oh shit!

Here's a better version with the princess tower a little taller like it's supposed to be

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2283/map34lz.jpg

With Ocean Heights there's a fair walk to get to the marina, restaurants etc. And the Pinnacle opposite the Torch means you've got to cross the road as well. Although the Torch doesn't have the best views and is a bit tucked away at least it's right on the marina and I won't have to cross any roads to get home after a few beers.

I wouldn't have minded buying in the Princess or Infinity or even Ocean Heights but the only thing that put me off was that i'd have had to get a mortgage in Dubai which I believe is a painstaking process mainly due to it being a relatively new concept in the Arab world.

Dubai Select's non-status related scheme was to me the best long term payment method by far and as long as rental income covers the quarterly installments, this appears to be the safest bet.

It really depends what one is after. For a Marina view Torch is going to be alot better than Princess Tower, Ocean Heights and probably even infinity Tower. However if Sea view apt is wanted then go for Princess Tower, Ocean Heights or Infinity Tower. In my personal opinion Marina View will be fab - problem with Sea view when the Sun goes down it will be PITCH black when the sun goes down.

That's an excellent point Arfie. And the Torch is much nearer the bars ......ha ha ha . Seriously though, assuming you were after the holiday let market, would it be worth paying 30 to 50% more for say an Infinity/Ocean Heights/Princess Tower apartment ? As somebody posted earlier, a one bed in the Torch is likely to command say £600/£700 per week, you would need around £1,000/£1,200 per week at the Infinity/Ocean Heights to justify the price you've paid. Would a holidaymaker really want to pay that much more for a sea view as opposed to a marina view ? If I was booking a holiday I'd go for the lower rental myself, hence I reckon the Torch is better value and should be easier to let out.

Erm, no, it won't be pitch black - I'd say a sea view is just as desirable as it'll also be a view of the Palm! People always pay more to have a view of the sea anyway. Prices of Ocean Heights reflect this.

The Torch seems to only be successful due to its finance package (which was at a very high interest/inflation rate??!?). I fear the only people who will get rich are the developers on this one. :(

That's an excellent point Arfie. And the Torch is much nearer the bars ......ha ha ha . Seriously though, assuming you were after the holiday let market, would it be worth paying 30 to 50% more for say an Infinity/Ocean Heights/Princess Tower apartment ? As somebody posted earlier, a one bed in the Torch is likely to command say £600/£700 per week, you would need around £1,000/£1,200 per week at the Infinity/Ocean Heights to justify the price you've paid. Would a holidaymaker really want to pay that much more for a sea view as opposed to a marina view ? If I was booking a holiday I'd go for the lower rental myself, hence I reckon the Torch is better value and should be easier to let out.


actualy Ocean Heights is closest to a bar ;) being just accross the road from Mina Seyahi Le Meridien. from the torch you will have to walk there, or two grosvenor house, over the bridge.

:cheers:

Tractor, the "interest rate" you refer to works out at 6% APR and this is totally fixed over the lifetime of the payment plan, i.e. 15 years. Firstly, I'd like to wager you if you can get an expat. mortgage from any lender in dubai at that rate. Most are offering 8% or higher.

Secondly, no mortgage plan in the world will guarantee a fixed interest rate for its entire lifetime. The Torch payment plan does just that.

So as a mortgage, the Torch payment plan wins hands down. The only way to get a better deal is to get a UK (or non-Dubai) mortgage lender to finance your dubai property at current high street rates (4-5%) but there aren't many that are willing to do this yet, probably due to non-existent property laws in Dubai, as yet.

I take it you haven't bought at the Torch then Tractor ??? So where have you bought then ???

I haven't bought yet - I am still researching ... rather than rush in i prefer to check everything out properly. Buying just 'cos its 'easy' would feel very dodgy to me ... smacks of credit card deals and car finance offerings!

What is the normal price per foot in the Torch? Most mortgage lenders are offering 6-7% from what I've found ... and linked to the USD interest rate so can go up or down.

guys we are once again heading in the investors talk again.. a bit too much if you ask me, already one page..why not use this thread?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

:)

Oh pardon us your Majesty. Wont do it again, i promise. Anyone know any UK based mortgage lenders who are willing to secure against property in Dubai?...oh..sorry Dubaiflo....(pls PM me privately guys, dont wanna upset the Authorities now...)

Sorry Tractor, I'd love to answer your questions but according to Dubaiflo I can't get into discusssing these areas. So.........how tall is the Torch again ??

345m , that is what the thread title says.

glad you agree with me. :)

Tractor, the "interest rate" you refer to works out at 6% APR and this is totally fixed over the lifetime of the payment plan, i.e. 15 years. Firstly, I'd like to wager you if you can get an expat. mortgage from any lender in dubai at that rate. Most are offering 8% or higher.

Secondly, no mortgage plan in the world will guarantee a fixed interest rate for its entire lifetime. The Torch payment plan does just that.

So as a mortgage, the Torch payment plan wins hands down. The only way to get a better deal is to get a UK (or non-Dubai) mortgage lender to finance your dubai property at current high street rates (4-5%) but there aren't many that are willing to do this yet, probably due to non-existent property laws in Dubai, as yet.

Naz, Dubai Select's fixed interest rate over 15 Years is actually 7%, moreover you start paying interest payments on the entire remaining balance from the outset, so it is expensive when compared to a UK fixed rate mortgage (ie. to a 10 year fixed rate of 4.79% offered by Woolwich).

The Dirham (AED) is also pegged to the US Dollar, which is also likely to lose some value against the pound in the short/medium term, so this is good while we are paying a AED(USD) mortgage, but not favourable if you are looking for a quick sale (or a fast buck).

7% is actually good value for a non status mortgage - does'nt HSBC Dubai charge something like 6.5% to 6.9% at the moment anyway? Only downside is that payments start jun 06

I like the Torch because of its location which makes it rentable to both tourists and business lets. Compare to DubaiLand apartments for example which are only rentable as holiday lets. If supply is greater than demand then I think the Torch will still be rentable because locals or those moving into Dubai will need somewhere to stay close to SZR and Media/Internet City etc. Things may change in 10 years when waterfront and Jebel Ali start to become THE place to be for business but by that time mortgage should be paid off anyway.

Would post this in the investment discussion thread but it would seem out of context there since my real reason for posting is to clarify which side is the swimming pool going to be? :)

I don't see how you can compare a UK mortgage with a Dubai mortgage, it's like comparing apples with pears. The interest rate on a UK mortgage is of no relevance at all where the property being purchased is in Dubai. You couldn't borrow from the Woolwich for a property in Dubai so why compare it against the Torch repayment plan. Borrowing from the Woolwich is simply not possible.
How about...... a Japanese bank will lend on a property in Hiroshima at 1.5% therefore the Torch repayment plan must be expensive !!!
The only comparison that makes sense is.....does the Torch plan at 7% compare to other lenders who will lend in Dubai. And....for good measure, will they lend non-status. I think it's a very good deal.

So now the catch (I knew there was one!) comes out - you're paying interest on the whole value while the tower is being constructed!!

So basically you're paying an extra 14% on top of the purchase price, assuming it is completed within 2 years (which is not guaranteed - almost all towers have been late so far).

This is clearly nuts and something I'd never do!

Torch owners are going to be paying way more than anyone else for their apartments.

I was wondering what proportion of Torch buyers are end-users, or investors looking to use it as a holiday home, and rent to tourists? I'm guessing the majority are the latter.

From my personal experience of going on holiday, and from friends, family, work colleagues everyone uses hotels. Why is anyone going to rent from all the hundreds of investors?

If it's for renting to people working and living in Dubai, aren't they smart enough to buy one themself?

Has the world gone completely mad??? Tractor, what are you saying mate? Your maths is totally wrong, mate....

OK guys, time for your maths lesson...

Apartment purchase (in £ equivalent at 6.6Dhs/£1) - £116,094
Deposit paid by June '06 - £34,828, leaving remainder £81,266
Installments (15 yrs) - 60 payments of £2191 = 131460.
Total interest therefore = £50,194

So over the 15 years, this is £3346 per year in interest, which represents a 4.1% APR for the duration.

Here are the benefits:
1) No penalty whatsoever for overpayment or early redemption.
2) Possibly the lowest interest rate for any property purchased in Dubai.
3) US dollar fluctuation can be utilised by over-paying when Dhirham rate is higher against the pound.

Tractor, it doesn't at all mean we are paying "14% interest on top of the purchase price" at all!!!! All it means is that payment starts early, which means after construction (June 2008) we only have another 13 years to pay! We're not paying 7% per year, thats ridiculous! Its more like 4.1% per year, as i've shown above.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

I was wondering what proportion of Torch buyers are end-users, or investors looking to use it as a holiday home, and rent to tourists? I'm guessing the majority are the latter.

From my personal experience of going on holiday, and from friends, family, work colleagues everyone uses hotels. Why is anyone going to rent from all the hundreds of investors?

If it's for renting to people working and living in Dubai, aren't they smart enough to buy one themself?


I think if you study the holiday-rental market, you'll find an increasing number of people who would rather rent a private apartment than a hotel mainly due to price and the extra privacy. I've already demonstrated that the difference is sometimes more than double for an equivalent hotel. All current apartments are fitted out to 5-star hotel standards. The average 7-nights room rate in any dubai 5-star hotel is around £1200-3000, depending on location/prestige.

Current apartment rental rates per 7 nights (www.holiday-rentals.com etc) is around £650-900 for a 1-bed.

Not every holiday maker is bathing in money. Some people will always enjoy a bargain and currently, apartment rentals are a bargain compared to hotels.

It does clarify the situation - it shows how a clever company (like Dubai Select) takes advantage of people who can't work out an APR interest rate for themselves (I'm afraid, like you)!!!

If you're happy to pay for an apartment for 2 years without having any use or income from it, that's your decision!!! Any business person buying rentals would consider this a cost that would dramatically reduce their eventual rental yield and probably refuse to buy in this way.
Answering your points:
1/ Thank God for that - least they can do!
2/ Rubbish, you just don't know how to calculate it
3/ Dangerous game to play, leave it to the experts! Also I bet you can't under-pay!!

Anyway, I genuinely hope that for your sake the market in Dubai continues to go skywards and you end up making a great profit.

I'm not going to dispute holiday rental market prices vs hotel prices. Yes, the apartments are probably a lot cheaper than equivalent hotels.

Although, I have not studied the holiday rental market, just from personal experience and everyone I know, hotels are always booked when people go abroad. I will go on about 4 holidays a year, and I have yet to rent an apartment even though I'm not rich.

I would be appreciative if anyone was able to direct me to this market research for the holiday rental market, that suggest there will be enough demand for (the thousands of investor) apartments, as opposed to hotels.

I too have always booked hotels, without even thinking about it, and I also go on around 4-5 holidays per year (if you include weekend breaks!). I only stumbled across a website offering private apartments and for my last holiday in Dubai I stayed in a private apartment in the Marina. To be honest with you, it was the best accomodation I have ever had abroad. A brand new apartment, fully serviced by a cleaner every day, the extra privacy and extra space, and all for what...less than half the price of an equivalent hotel....I know where I'll be staying in the future.

Tractor what are you talking about ?? People who have purchased in Torch have paid 30% to date and over the next 2 years they require to pay a further 20-25% roughly. Well most of the other developments in Dubai ask for 60-70% of the money for the apartment before completion anyway and the remaining balance of 30% roughly on completion of the apartment so Dubai select are doing nothing different.

Dubai Select are giving customers the option of 15 year non status mortgage. 7% over 15 years is not too bad and once the property law passes you could get finance arranged from the UK at a good rate.

I don't dispute any of your points regarding prices, quality, location, privacy, space of apartments vs hotels.

All I would like to know is where is this - "I think if you study the holiday-rental market" material?

I have yet to find any sort of evidence to suggest that the demand for the thousands of apartments purchased by investors, for holiday rents will be sufficient to match the largest supply ever in world history.

Arfie, there are lots of different offers - I'm just pointing out that there is a 'cost of capital employed' which no-one here seems to think about. Clearly few people can work out an APR either (my maths says it is between 7 and 8%)

It may actually be cheaper to wait for a tower to be complete or near completion and pay a premium rather than part with so much cash and start paying interest immediately! Especially if a tower might be late. If prices in Dubai rise 10-12% a year it only just about negates the cost of capital and interest payments you'll be paying.

I understand the desire to pay for an off-plan apartment as capital appreciate MAY be fantastic (i.e. better than I stated above) - however I'd only ever do this if payments were tied to construction benchmarks (some developments do offer this).

I'm sorry to be playing devil's advocate but it seems some of you steamed in and didn't think about things properly. I won't post again on this subject!

I understand that Dubai Marina apartments are already being marketed by expedia.

I also believe that a deal for the Torch will be made with a major UK tour operator so will feature in their brochures and marketing.

I dont think the apartment rental market will be all that ig, especialy in towers.

its one think to rent an apartment above a beachfront shop in spain, its quite another o spend a lot of money flying long haul and staying in an apartment.
if i went further than europe, and was only staying 10 - 14 days, i would want to be pampered in a hotel.. not worrying about cooking breakfast, getting taxis and the hundereds of other little inconveniences vacuumed up by a big 5* hotel.

dont forget the huge competition from actual waterfront apartments on the palm as well....

good luck anyways [to all 10,000 of you]

Onetikin, the evidence is before you. The ever-increasing tourist visit figures for dubai, currently growing at around 1.5million per year, there are simply not enough hotel rooms to cover everyone. I've had personal experience of this last year. Do you honestly think that they would be building in excess of 300 brand new apartment blocks housing over 200,000 new apartments in Dubai alone, and that investors would be snapping them up within hours of launch if there was really any serious doubts about the holiday rental market or indeed long-term rental market?

But still, if your not satisfied, please go read:

http://reports.mintel.com/sinatra/reports/index/&letter=8/display/id=115871&anchor=a115871

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_jobs_and_money/story/0,3605,1566308,00.html

http://www.movewithus.co.uk/international/si.cmsx?itemID=502

the list goes on but your own research is the key issue before investing.

Here's the truth of the matter, the short term "quick buck" scenario is dying quickly but for those people who are investing for medium to long term gains, the situation couldnt possibly look any rosier. Thats what my personal experience and all studies that I have read show this to be the case. The key issue is as long as Dubai's tourists grow at the current rate for the next few years, you shouldnt have much difficulty in short term holiday letting. And as a safety net, you've always got the benefit of long-term rental for when the holiday letting market declines.

OK Tractor, I too will not comment on this topic again. You clearly think that you "know" what APR means...so good luck to you buddy. Give us a shout when you finally wake-up and realise how APR is actually calculated.

Suffice to say, some of us did do our research, you may disagree, but thats for you to decide.

Either way, here is the REAL BOTTOM LINE:

If all else fails, and like many here, lets assume for a minute it does....like there is no longer a holiday letting market for the Marina coz everyone either prefers hotels or the Palm/Dubailand, etc etc, there is still the fact that the long term rental will more than cover installments for the next 15 years, after which the property is held outright (laws pending) and anything above that, is pure profit. Well, if not for me, at least my son and daughter have a ready-made holiday hotspot for the rest of their lives. End of.

Take it easy Naz. I just like to play devil's advocate. In fact, me and my family have already purchsed 4 flats - 2 in Marina, 1 the Views and the Lagoon.

I dont think the apartment rental market will be all that ig, especialy in towers.

its one think to rent an apartment above a beachfront shop in spain, its quite another o spend a lot of money flying long haul and staying in an apartment.
if i went further than europe, and was only staying 10 - 14 days, i would want to be pampered in a hotel.. not worrying about cooking breakfast, getting taxis and the hundereds of other little inconveniences vacuumed up by a big 5* hotel.

dont forget the huge competition from actual waterfront apartments on the palm as well....

good luck anyways [to all 10,000 of you]

Don't forget that the Torch has all the facilities of a hotel.

Swimming pool
Spa
Cafe's & Restaurants
Convienience Stores
Airport pick up service
Car rental facilities

Except the rooms are a lot larger, better equiped (plasma tv etc.) and less expensive to hire.

In fact it could be compared to Al Marsa tower next door which will be run as a hotel.

Sure thing onetickin, no hard feelings. But my comments weren't directed at you. there's a few smart alecs in here that like to chat rubbish when they haven't really got a full grasp of the issue here. Its utterly useless to compare current Mortgage APR calculations to a payment plan like for The Torch. Mortgages APR formulas have alsorts of complications built-in, like compound interest, and god knows what else. It is true that using standard mortgage APR calcs. the Torch plan works out at 7.1% APR but this is incorrect, as there's no compound involved. Which is why i quoted a more realistic 4.1% overall.

Steve, I am aware of the swimming pool, gym etc, thats pretty much standard for most developments but it surprises me that Dubai Select have plans for cafes/restaurants, shops and house-keeping...that would truly be a bonus and close the gap even more between it and hotels. In fact, the only difference is the draconian rules of check-out times and not having to tip some bloke everytime he delivers your luke warm tea and soggy biscuits! (joke! :-))

Steve, I am aware of the swimming pool, gym etc, thats pretty much standard for most developments but it surprises me that Dubai Select have plans for cafes/restaurants, shops and house-keeping...that would truly be a bonus and close the gap even more between it and hotels. In fact, the only difference is the draconian rules of check-out times and not having to tip some bloke everytime he delivers your luke warm tea and soggy biscuits! (joke! :-))

almost every development in dubai marina will have res/cafe/shops in the basement.

Well thats excellent. I recently stayed at the Al-Majara complex, and it didnt have any shops, restaurants or even any internal house-keeping. I thought that was going to be standard. Well, pleased anyway.

cafe's will be good. but restraunts will be unattractive. no alcohol, pork et.c...

Hello all,

I purchase a 2 bedder about a month ago! I thought I would say hello! - Its been interesting reading all your comments. I myself am buying to live in, and not let out. I can work from anywhere there is a phone and internet, so I would much rather be doing that in the sun than in London!!

C ya!

Welcome Umer. Did you buy in the Torch or elsewhere?

You've got some unusual comments Dubai:

1) Why do you have to cook your own breakfast when you rent an apartment ? There'll be plenty of places at the Marina to buy a breakfast.

2) When you stay in a hotel you don't need to pay for taxis. New one on me. I've never know taxis included free with the hotel booking. Unless of course you mean you're going to walk from your heotel to Dubailand, Wild Wadi, Dubai Creek and all the other attractions.

3) The restaurants at the Marina are unattractive. Have you actually been to the Marina ? I was there three weeks ago and the restaurants are fabulous.

4) Can't buy alcohol at the Marina ??? I understand that quite a few restaurants at the Marina are not licensed yet was told this was a bit of a red tape issue but this will be resolved soon. I am not aware that there will be any acohol restriction at the Marina so where you get this stuff from ??

5) Don't serve pork. True, but this is the same in a hotel isn't it ??

I must say Naz....I agree with everything you've said on this forum mate.

Like wise Morris matey! I'm enjoying your comments too.

I bet for every property development in history (New York in the 20's and 30's, London in the 90's, etc etc) people have made the very same kind of negative comments as we see here. Dont get me wrong... I totally and implicitly welcome constructive debate and valid arguments, but you can blatantly see through those that are being negative or patronising against investors in Dubai for the mere sake of it. And those very same people are probably the ones crying into their warm beers/coffees over how they missed out on the cash-in later.

My wife summed it up very well, when we were discussing buying in Dubai when she said the worst thing that will ever happen is....we'll have a free fully furnished apartment available twice a year when we need those much deserved jollies in the sunshine!!! Here here!

.........exactly.

to all the fish and chips out there

save the speech and stick to topic here!!!!!

or i'll delete the whole thread and open a new one only with the photo updates we have!

Oh no...shit...the thread's gona be deleted.....someone pls tell Sheikh Mohammed..and Emaar..what we all gona do now??? Dubai is doomed..coz this thread's gona be deleted. Be my guest mate.

Dubai Lover can you tell me what are supposed to post on here then. What's the topic ??

Morris, isnt it clear to you? The topic is any useless information, generally not helpful to anyone with any vested interest whatsoever in the Torch or anyone remotely interested in the Torch....for example..:

Here is a picture of a JCB digger and 2 cranes, working in Papau New Guinea...its nothing to do with the Torch or Dubai, but its the same sort of crane that are being used in Dubai....

or...how about.....Did you know that if all the towers currently being built in the Marina were layed end to end, it would form a chain that would go 3 times around the world.....


Is that relevant now? Coz not a single reference to anything remotely useful to anyone..like those who've invested money..was made? Answers on a postcard to:

"This Forum Is Dictatorial and Heavily Biased"
P O Bollox
Dubai.

In the event of a tie, please complete the following tie-breaker:

"Oh shit, whilst i was too busy posting useless pictures of cranes and big holes in the ground, i missed the boat and now all my mates are rich property investors, where should i now invest in?"

Winners will be notified by a serious warning from the Moderator, coz it makes him feel big and hard!

dubai_lover delete it and someone deserves to be brigged.

NazUk if it does not matter, why aren't you leaving then?

Naz...that is sooooooooo funny.... I've just fallen off my chair laughing !!!!
Seriously though, you're spot on the money mate.
My question was trying to prompt a reply from DubaiLover as to what he feels we should be discussing here. I guess it's stuff like... how high is the Torch ? is it really made of cheese ??? can you jump off it without hurting yourself ??? What really matters is the stuff me and you have been discussing here, the financials and is it a good investment or not.

Exactly.

we have 2 full threads for a tower that hasn't even really started

we had the same problem with marina heights


somebody registers and says: hey i bought an apartment and here we go
what's your payment plan, how is the contact to the developer, bla bla bla

then a new one comes and the whole thing start all over again

this is not an investment forum! if you want to communicate talk via email or private message but don't post all the shit here because nobody is interested in it, only those who purchased something, the very small minority


and just read through the thread, most of the stuff posted is pure BS
maybe then you guys realize the bullshit you posted, especially in your last few posts

i didn't know children were allowed to make such investments :bash:

Well I'm a purchaser, just sent my second payment today, now paid 30% for my one bed so please don't include me in with forum members who aren't genuinely interested in the Torch.

Well guys, some of you probably hate me now, but hey..just think..at least i'm keeping this forum alive and kicking..just look at some of the others around here...like poor old... Najd tower and the Sahab towers, oh and "Loveyoulongtime Tower in "Prostitutes and Immigrant Waiters District" (last one made up hehehehe) they havent had any posts since January! At least its not boring.

Morris, apparantly it seems the logic here is that if you've gone ahead and paid 30% or purchased an apartment in full, that doesnt deem you postworthy and therefore its not welcome in this thread.

Well what do have here a rebel. This site was never intended to be for investors it's for skyscraper enthusiast and if you don't like it i think you should go elsewhere.

The whole objective of this site never was and probaly never will be aimed at investors as dubiflo has mentioned there is a thread for investors but this is not it.

And thats the only point Dubai lover was making in a nice way. I think some of the posts are good but this is the wrong place.

I think it's the wrong attitude to have, there are many people on this fourm who have invested too but they stick to the rules of every section of the forum.

You could start a thread in the sky Majlis about the torch etc i'm sure noone would blink and eye lid.

And even if i knew where to invest next, do you think i'm gonna tell the whole world.

Dubai Lover next time don't be kind to them just delete it. no doubt i'll get abuse for posting this.

What is the big deal here? I've spoken about architecture, design, floor plans, construction issues and delays, investment..whats the big deal for crying out loud? Put your bleeding dummies back in your mouths!

We TOO happen to be skyscraper lovers, otherwise I for one would have bought a 2-bed townhouse in the Springs! It was within my budget, but I have always loved skyscrapers..just coz i and others have happened to have invested in the Torch, does that mean we cant discuss the issue here coz its a skyscraper lovers thread only?

Thats unbelievably draconian and quite ridiculous. You guys who only wanna talk about holes in grounds, cranes and the beauty of the high-rise, go ahead...and if some of us want to discuss investment issues surrounding the Torch, why is that wrong? I thought this was a thread related to the Torch.

Naz...that is sooooooooo funny.... I've just fallen off my chair laughing !!!!
Seriously though, you're spot on the money mate.
My question was trying to prompt a reply from DubaiLover as to what he feels we should be discussing here. I guess it's stuff like... how high is the Torch ? is it really made of cheese ??? can you jump off it without hurting yourself ??? What really matters is the stuff me and you have been discussing here, the financials and is it a good investment or not.

Exactly.


you won't get it , will you.

we are not interested in your stuff :bash:

oh we have bought in the Marinascape, but this thread is NOT full of investment talk!!

Dennis it is really time to do sth here... sorry.

We? Is that the royal we? I'm not interested in your BS, but I dont go around preaching it to everyone. There are ppl clearly interested in what I'm saying otherwise there wouldnt have been so much response. Just get on with it.

Who the hell is Dennis ?? And what does "sth" mean ??

I don't see what's the problem with letting investors talk about stuff, as long as it doesn't go as far as some saying, "hey anyone want to buy a 2-bedroom apartment?" or something. This thread isn't actually filled with real estate bullshit but rather, I'd say more than 1/2 of the posts here are arguments about whether we should allow real estate conversations or not. I haven't bought anywhere in Dubai and since I'm a student I don't plan to for a long time. I'm not interested either in a lot of real estate talk going on but let them talk. It's probably the best place on the net (or elsewhere since developers don't seem to like giving up to date info except for Wind) for buyers to get information.

^^ malec i can't agree on that one at all. and no one of the mods or the others around here (except the ones who bought obviously) do.

Who the hell is Dennis ?? And what does "sth" mean ??


dennis = dubai_lover, and sth means something.


set up an investment forum... or just email the stuff you want to talk about...
this is just not the intention of this forum...

and we do have a thread for that, and where is the problem in using it?

it is just riddiculous and it seems like this is the only thread where it happens all over SSC...
but obviously those guys don't even know there is more than the torch thread here.
i have never seen them posting elsewhere...

this torch talk must be extinguished! :D

what about moving this all to sky majlis and making here a new torch thread...

Thank goodness!

Flo - Thank goodness!

Fair enough then. What I think would be the best would be maybe, to allow small chats here in the tower threads. For example there shouldn't be anything against newbies who ask a question. Their question deserves to be answered but a full conversation about pricing, etc, would be better off in the investment thread. Agree or not?

:lock: these guys are taking the piss.

just open up a new part one thread and post a photo and a render.

let these guys either use the real estate thread, orsit around at a restaurant waiting for the alcohol they were 'promised'.

in any case, i made this point a while ago. now it is ut of hand.

Fair enough then. What I think would be the best would be maybe, to allow small chats here in the tower threads. For example there shouldn't be anything against newbies who ask a question. Their question deserves to be answered but a full conversation about pricing, etc, would be better off in the investment thread. Agree or not?


i am perfectly fine with that, and you will notice that in every other thread, if someone who bought there asks, he is getting a more or less satisfying answer, either linked to a plot map, sent a pm, or linked to the investment thread.

just check the marinascape or timeplace thread.

this also works more or less in the marina diamond thread, but this here in the torch thread is far too much.

Okay you guys...... please let's sort this out. The problem is the moderator (whom I guess is DuabiaLover by his attitude, although this is purely an assumption) is not managing this forum with any degree of ability so.......two questions please:

1. What ARE we allowed to talk about on this particular forum ??? Please back this up with some examples.

2. We are we NOT allowed to talk about ??? Again please give some examples.

Then everybody including Naz and myself will be absolutely clear about the whole thing. I really do not want cause any problems here and if we clear this up we can get back to some serious discussion and I can post whatever it is I should be posting here, and everything else elsewhere.

BTW, the investments thread is here for those that don't know:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=7437339#post7437339

malec: you got it wrong :D

Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

in the thread above you can talk about investments considering the torch for example... (and all other property related talk)

for chat not related to skyscrapers, go to skymajlis http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=535

and if you want to just ask something very quick (not related to buildings or investments) or want to just say hi, then
Chat and stuff between UAE Forum and Guests would be good place http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=7444734#post7444734


and if you haven't notice, this is the "starting point" for UAE forum http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=377 you can see there that the investment thread is "sticky" there, which means that it's always on top of the page so you can easily find it :)

Okay you guys...... please let's sort this out. The problem is the moderator (whom I guess is DuabiaLover by his attitude, although this is purely an assumption) is not managing this forum with any degree of ability so.......two questions please:

1. What ARE we allowed to talk about on this particular forum ??? Please back this up with some examples.

2. We are we NOT allowed to talk about ??? Again please give some examples.

Then everybody including Naz and myself will be absolutely clear about the whole thing. I really do not want cause any problems here and if we clear this up we can get back to some serious discussion and I can post whatever it is I should be posting here, and everything else elsewhere.


No one else here has a problem withDubai-Lover's moderation, in fact he is regarded as one of SSC's best.

if you have a problem, i suggest you find another forum. this one was fine before you arrived, and you dont appear to have contributed anything constructive.

if you want to chat about property do it in that thread. if you have NEW info on the torch, post it here [and i dont mean the latest value of your apartment, or the size of parking spaces e.t.c....]

then we can all get on happily, throwing flowers in the moonlight.

i couldn't disagree more. Moderation in this thread is to say the least Bias and it is so obvious. now... if you want to talk out of your ass that's a difrnt story. what's wrong in letting both sides of the aisle express thier views. how many more times do we have to go thru this. enough is enough. i don't own this forum and neither do any of you. if you don't feel like contributing to this thread...well the hell with it..fine...just let us torch ppl conduct our own biz.

^^ Not in here though. This thread is about the tower's architecture and cunstruction progress. For lengthy discussion related to the real estate part of this project, you can use the investor's thread.

That doesn't mean "real estate discussions" are TABU in this thread, but there is a limit that they can be tolerated.

As someone suggested, maybe you should open a "The TORCH - Real Estate Discussion" thread on Sky Majlis, and do all the relevant talking there, both groups will be happy.

Morris, isnt it clear to you? The topic is any useless information, generally not helpful to anyone with any vested interest whatsoever in the Torch or anyone remotely interested in the Torch....for example..:

Here is a picture of a JCB digger and 2 cranes, working in Papau New Guinea...its nothing to do with the Torch or Dubai, but its the same sort of crane that are being used in Dubai....

or...how about.....Did you know that if all the towers currently being built in the Marina were layed end to end, it would form a chain that would go 3 times around the world.....


Is that relevant now? Coz not a single reference to anything remotely useful to anyone..like those who've invested money..was made? Answers on a postcard to:

"This Forum Is Dictatorial and Heavily Biased"
P O Bollox
Dubai.

In the event of a tie, please complete the following tie-breaker:

"Oh shit, whilst i was too busy posting useless pictures of cranes and big holes in the ground, i missed the boat and now all my mates are rich property investors, where should i now invest in?"

Winners will be notified by a serious warning from the Moderator, coz it makes him feel big and hard!

If that was your take on "British Humour", you failed miserably.

Not only that, but this is an insult to all of us who are spending our free time on the weekend, under the scoarching sun, taking picture updates for fellow skyscraper enthusiasts. We'ew driven by passion not by financial gains and don't need to hear your "humour", so piss off chav.

^^ couldn't agree more.

and thinking of it he will be pleased to have this forum, once the construction starts, because this will be the only place for updates.


again, there is no problem in having a short "investment" related question, or if someone asked for advice where to buy (see marina plot map thread), because this is the place with most useful information on the net...

but in this thread, just have a look at the last three pages, there is nothing except discussion about payment and mortgage...
and sorry, this is too much.

if you don't want to accept we are indeed mostly interested in the skyscraper itself, then just leave and find a better place for your beloved the torch apts to discuss...

there are "investors" here that bring much more valueable (concering the intention of this forum) than you, so it would be possible the bring both sides in, just take a look at a forumer called ragga (who has bought at least 20apts and villas in dubai) or also almillion (who bought the 54th floor marina heights penthouse).
they bring new information on completion date, new towers, etc.

Dear Naz-UK
What are you on?
You bought a unit in The Torch, so f**cking what.
So have I and a few hundred others, it's only an apartment you know, Dubai has thousands under construction, take your pick.
You call yourself "an investor", how can you be an investor if you spend so much time belly-aching about one bloody apartment.
I pity the poor girl or guy who has to deal with you in Dubai Select.
Chill out Man!
An "investor" puts his money down and takes his chances.
This is one of the best forums on the net and all thanks to the efforts of people with an interest in tower construction. The fact that their interest is non-commercial makes the information all the more valuable. So if you relax and keep an eye on this forum you will learn more over time here than you would on a forum dedicated to "investors" which is full of lies and sales talk planted there by the real estate people.

If fact it is in your interest to keep the comments to a minimum, otherwise your whinging will cause a fall in Torch prices, as we all sell up to get away from you..he..he..

any one here happen to have any 2 br corner(06 layout)for sale in the torch on the floors higher than 22, let me know

^^ They fell into the marina and we all laughed at you.

There's nothing more satisfying after a hard day at the office to come home and get on the forum to hear lots of praises about one's comments!!!! Thanks guys, love you all too.

Back to the serious issue, to all who think im "bad" for this forum, I want to only make 1 very simple point and its this...You are all only pissed off because i have talked about investment issues in the thread. If you want to randomly quote me out of context (funny how you conveniently miss my non-investment related points) go ahead. Makes no difference really does it.

But I stand by every one of my comments (aside from my forced sarcasm, which i apologise if anyone got offended) because I've bloody well put my money into the Torch and therefore any issue whatsoever (construction, delays, change of design and yes investment issues too!) is very important to me.

I will now no longer comment on any investment related issues but if you guys are expecting ppl like me to isolate our investment issues from the skyscraper-enthusiast issues, then im sorry but its not always that easy...for crying out loud..you guys might all be skyscraper enthusiasts and i appreciate that, but think about it..if the Torch (and the rest) never goes ahead...falls down...subsides...gets bombed..etc etc...we will have been slightly more damaged than "it was such a beautiful building and now i have nothing else to photograph"...coz we'll have bloody lost our money! Thats all i am saying. I dont mean to be controversial...but pls give a little thought to ppl who as well as being enthusiasts, like myself, but who have also put their money where there enthusiasm is.

I too, will very soon be having regular pictures from the Torch site posted on here, in a matter of weeks. And i too will endevour to keep them updated, and post any "construction" related issues with regards to the Torch, direct from the horses mouth so to speak. So until then...goodbye. (You'll be all pleased to hear). Now im just off to tell all those on "Fly-fishing Weekly Forum.com" what a smashing, cheery bunch of great guys you all are.

There's nothing more satisfying after a hard day at the office to come home and get on the forum to hear lots of praises about one's comments!!!! Thanks guys, love you all too.

Back to the serious issue, to all who think im "bad" for this forum, I want to only make 1 very simple point and its this...You are all only pissed off because i have talked about investment issues in the thread. If you want to randomly quote me out of context (funny how you conveniently miss my non-investment related points) go ahead. Makes no difference really does it.

But I stand by every one of my comments (aside from my forced sarcasm, which i apologise if anyone got offended) because I've bloody well put my money into the Torch and therefore any issue whatsoever (construction, delays, change of design and yes investment issues too!) is very important to me.

I will now no longer comment on any investment related issues but if you guys are expecting ppl like me to isolate our investment issues from the skyscraper-enthusiast issues, then im sorry but its not always that easy...for crying out loud..you guys might all be skyscraper enthusiasts and i appreciate that, but think about it..if the Torch (and the rest) never goes ahead...falls down...subsides...gets bombed..etc etc...we will have been slightly more damaged than "it was such a beautiful building and now i have nothing else to photograph"...coz we'll have bloody lost our money! Thats all i am saying. I dont mean to be controversial...but pls give a little thought to ppl who as well as being enthusiasts, like myself, but who have also put their money where there enthusiasm is.

I too, will very soon be having regular pictures from the Torch site posted on here, in a matter of weeks. And i too will endevour to keep them updated, and post any "construction" related issues with regards to the Torch, direct from the horses mouth so to speak. So until then...goodbye. (You'll be all pleased to hear). Now im just off to tell all those on "Fly-fishing Weekly Forum.com" what a smashing, cheery bunch of great guys you all are.


well i am perfectly fine with that..
your comment do not really show you accept what we said but as long as you behave ;) nevermind.

btw, you weren't the only one we addressed, just to make that clear.

Sorry if I came on strong Naz-UK..but anyway you know what I mean.

I have to say Naz does make it very easy for himself to be disliked.

Clearly, I'm not a skyscraper fanatic like some of you guys on here...I only ever came to this forum because after purchashing within the Torch, I did a "Google" to try and find out as much information and opinions on it as possible..ok....and this was by far the best forum, and one indeed that had its own "The Torch" thread...I didnt even at first realise it was welcome to talk about investment. I had assumed there were going to be many ppl posting within this thread who have invested in the Torch...

So bottom line is, I never had any intentions whatsoever to piss anyone off..nor to deliberately go off-topic, i thought i WAS on topic. But its fine now, its no hard feelings, you don't post here from the investors point of view, only as an amateaur enthusiast. Got it. No problems.

I still think my reasons were justified but if the consensus on here is otherwise, then so be it.

only as an amateaur enthusiast.

:rant: :bash:

i am fine with the rest though ;)

seems like the growing number of "investors seeking info on their investment opportunity" here at SSC might be re-routed BACK TO GOOGLE.

;)

Now to get back on topic, any more pics of construction workers having a tea-break on the torch site?

Indian workers in Dubai get tea-breaks? Bloody hellfire, do the authorities know about this?

Now to get back on topic, any more pics of construction workers having a tea-break on the torch site?

No they have all gone to the tea forum in Dubai at the Grand Hyatt Hotel! They won't be back until 1st March !

source: http://www.ameinfo.com/77754.html

:rofl:

this article makes me :lol: :hahaha: how funny...
and perfectly fits here :D

lol can't stop laughing.
nice one

torch VS. marina heights any suggestiones, where would you buy and why???

Depends if you can wait until 2009 for the torch to be complete. Otherwise go for Marina Heights and start collecting rent :)

Although you will be paying alot more for the Marina Heights apartment as prices are higher as its near completion.

Torch is around 87% sold now.

Please dont laugh, tea is a very serious business. 18 generations of my family didnt toil day and night in the fields picking tea-leaves for nothing! :tongue3:

Does anyone who's been on the ground know what the approx distance is between the Torch site and the Princess tower?

And doesnt the Torch complete in 2008 rather than 2009? Where's the news that its been delayed?

judging from what we know about Dubai's construction speed and the activities on the site at the moment, i'd also say completion not before end of 2008.

the distance, i was walking there and would guess about 80m maybe. it depends on where exactly the torch will be on the plot, it is quite huge.
but surely altin or Dubai_lover have been there just recently anf might give you more accurate information.

Hey guys,

Does anyone know if the bedrooms and living room have floor to ceiling and wall to wall windows?
I have a marina facing 2 bed on floor 48 and am hoping to have great visibility of the marina from all these rooms.

Thanks!

intrested in selling it? :runaway: :runaway:


Hey guys,

Does anyone know if the bedrooms and living room have floor to ceiling and wall to wall windows?
I have a marina facing 2 bed on floor 48 and am hoping to have great visibility of the marina from all these rooms.

Thanks!

Apartments on floor 48 dont have windows. they have portholes.

:bash:

now nick, calm down, this question was pretty much ok.

To attempt a more serious answer to Jetsetter's question, all bedrooms will feature full floor to ceiling windows. However, the living rooms are fitted with french windows but im not sure if the area to the sides of the french windows is glass or wall....

now nick, calm down, this question was pretty much ok.

If it hadent already been asked and answered!

and whats wrong with portholes??? ...they give a nice 'nautical feel' to an apartment!

Is there a search facility within this thread?

no the function was disabled because it used too much ressources of the server, you can try to search via google though.

..

^^Here we go again

A gift from me to you. :)

Your very own thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=7490058)

Frolic to your hearts content!

:hi:

Has anyone considered asking Dubai Select to start a forum on their website specifically for Torch customers to discuss anything and everything about the Torch and Dubai in general?

They can surely afford it after throwing 3 new floors up for sale.

Edit:
I take it back - They'd never set one up as quick as that - thanks DUBAI.

Yes, Jetsetter I have and here's what the had to say...

"Thank you for contacting Dubai Select and for providing feedback for our customer login area. It is our intention to continuously improve the service we provide and your feedback is important to us.

I discussed your enquiry with the team responsible for our website design. We are now in the process of implementing an enhanced version of the customer login area, which will feature a wealth of information about the construction progress and also photographic updates. We envisage this to be a reliable and complete source of information for our investors.

We will be communicating the launch of this service to our investors through the regular newsletters that we issue. We anticipate a launch in the near future."


The sooner this happens the better, then ppl like us can get away from this forum which seems to be besieged by greasy-haired nerdy trainspotters, er sorry "skyscraper-spotters" (no offence to trains) who are quite literally falling over themselves to get the most exclusive angle on bird-dropping apparently deposited by a rare-breed falcon in the middle of a giant hole in the ground surrounded by boards.

Its ok for these guys to totally "take the piss" when it suits them, but anyone giving it back and they cry like little f***ing babies! Typical of nerds. I bet they got beat-up at school too!!! Hehehehe sorry enough...This forum is the only sense of "authority" these poor guys have ever had!!! oooops...i better stop.

Love you guys :)

:hahano: Bet you feel quite manly sitting comfortably in front of your monitor and thinking up "witty" insults to type :sleepy: Go have a wank or two, get rid of all that pent up sexual frustration and it'll give yourself something else to do instead of hanging around online forums all week trying to shit stir, says loads about your social life.

why are you so angry

I made you a thread.

pleas dont be cross with me.

i thought this guy had calmed down already :weird:

lol this is just getting so hilarious!

I'm not even going to lower myself to the level of idiots. Bloody hypocrite, does exactly the same thing he writes about!!! What a moron...

I'm just killing time until Dubai Select sort their website out, here so makes not a rat-dropping's difference to me what happens here.

someone give me mod rights for a day and I'll clean this bloody mess :|

I'm not even going to lower myself to the level of idiots

I take it that means you're not going to post on this forum anymore. No problems with that, have fun.

Dubaiflo, your obviously blindled by your unbridled passion for skyscrapers and skyscraper-lovers to even attempt at making a fair judgement about what's going on here, so I wont even bother asking you. I suggest you re-read this entire thread. I have. And it seems to me that whenever one of your "mates" makes a sarcastic statement you laugh and applaud (e.g. tea breaks, construction delays, Dubai-Select are rogues, Torch is a shit investment, etc etc do u want me to go on?), So if you have a sense of humour here, why is it then that goes out of the window (or porthole if you're Dubai) when someone like me does the same????

I am totally calm, and like i said, I know how to play by the rules, unlike some on here. I just cant stand hypocrisy, like what is blatantly going on in this thread, just because some ppl are on a mamouth ego-trip here coz they think it gives them some power. Really rather sad, if u ask me, and others.

Are "mod rights" the internet's answer to people who were bullied at school because they weren't given the job of Monitor or Prefect?

For someone who is so "cool" you seem to throw your weight around on an online forum a bit too much, are you making up for your insecurities in real life there Naz?

Why doesnt a moron get it when he's being ignored?

Answers to the same address given eariler.

Dubaiflo, your obviously blindled by your unbridled passion for skyscrapers and skyscraper-lovers to even attempt at making a fair judgement about what's going on here, so I wont even bother asking you. I suggest you re-read this entire thread. I have. And it seems to me that whenever one of your "mates" makes a sarcastic statement you laugh and applaud (e.g. tea breaks, construction delays, Dubai-Select are rogues, Torch is a shit investment, etc etc do u want me to go on?), So if you have a sense of humour here, why is it then that goes out of the window (or porthole if you're Dubai) when someone like me does the same????

I am totally calm, and like i said, I know how to play by the rules, unlike some on here. I just cant stand hypocrisy, like what is blatantly going on in this thread, just because some ppl are on a mamouth ego-trip here coz they think it gives them some power. Really rather sad, if u ask me, and others.

If your so keen about talking about the investment side of the Torch, theres a thread just for that already. No wait, there are two, one is called "property, investment questions" and the other was started by DUBAI just an hour ago specifically for the Torch so post your questions about which curtain colours go best with the wooden doors of the closets there.
It's very simple and even a five year old can understand it. I'm not into skyscrapers, but this site is very valuable for finding out about Dubai projects so I don't see why you can't respect the wishes of the very people that took the time to make this forum what it is by sorting out threads, going to take photos and so on.
If you can't follow the rules you will probably get banned sooner or later anyway, I could swear BulldozerGirl seems to have fans that have the same ability to wreck havoc..

Moron, which from now on is your preferred name, coz your ignorant and stupid, listen ...I'm no longer talking about investments.

:lol: suit yourself, your just so mature arent you :D i have better things to do now, hope you have fun there contemplating the next insult to type out, you fierce e-warrior!

Oh Lord, from where do such imbeciles come from? Anyway back the topic (wow, that felt strange coming from me! hehehe) I did double check with Dubai Select in the UAE today and they have adamantly said that the Torch will be completed in June 2008, no question about it. He said "its neither early, nor late..just bang on time"...Now im not that naive, i was playing devil's advocate and suggested that they would say that! To which he replied once the piling work was finished (5 months from now) he would give me a week by week breakdown of progress and time-to-completion updates.

Can't say fairer than that..lets just wait and see.

Good post Naz....as always. (Don't let them grind you down mate).

Right......this is nothing to do with investments.

Somebody asked a question a few posts ago about how far the Princess tower was away from the Torch. Not sure amongst all the slagging off going on, whether anybody gave a proper answer. I reckon it's only about the width of the road. Here's a pic I took about four weeks ago looking towards the sea.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=oh780z

Not sure if the tower in the centre is the Princess or whether it is to the right and only at foundation stage but you can see it's quite close. If this isn't the Princess anybody know what it is ???

There's also a tower on the right hand side and I'm interested to know what this one is, it seemed very high built up to about 40 storeys or so, but not heard any mention of this yet. Anybody know the name of it ??? Here's the pic of it:

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=oh6bdc

please don't feed this troll anymore

Good post Naz....as always. (Don't let them grind you down mate).

Right......this is nothing to do with investments.

Somebody asked a question a few posts ago about how far the Princess tower was away from the Torch. Not sure amongst all the slagging off going on, whether anybody gave a proper answer. I reckon it's only about the width of the road. Here's a pic I took about four weeks ago looking towards the sea.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=oh780z

Not sure if the tower in the centre is the Princess or whether it is to the right and only at foundation stage but you can see it's quite close. If this isn't the Princess anybody know what it is ???

There's also a tower on the right hand side and I'm interested to know what this one is, it seemed very high built up to about 40 storeys or so, but not heard any mention of this yet. Anybody know the name of it ??? Here's the pic of it:

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=oh6bdc


i wonder why i am answering you anyway but well ...

as i have already said the distance might be about 80m.
altin or dubai_lover have been walking there just recently so they might know better.

the tower is 59F Al Marsa Tower which will be Emirates Hotel, and if you would have a look in other sections as well you might have noticed that already.

The core is 64 F Emirates Crown.

Princess Tower will rise just next to it.



Oh Lord, from where do such imbeciles come from? Anyway back the topic (wow, that felt strange coming from me! hehehe) I did double check with Dubai Select in the UAE today and they have adamantly said that the Torch will be completed in June 2008, no question about it. He said "its neither early, nor late..just bang on time"...Now im not that naive, i was playing devil's advocate and suggested that they would say that! To which he replied once the piling work was finished (5 months from now) he would give me a week by week breakdown of progress and time-to-completion updates.

Can't say fairer than that..lets just wait and see.


feel free to post your opinion here: :rofl:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=321509



btw would anyone clean this thread now ... :bash:

Having been reading the way in which this thread has degenerated into a pathetic slanging match, I think it may be pertinent to make a few things clear to our new-found forumers.

I have been routinely visiting the threads related to Dubai Marina for the past 18 months or so, but have only recently become attuned to making some relevant comments. More importantly, as someone who has visited Dubai four times in the past two years, with a further visit next month, who is incredibly impressed with the way so much is happening and is also an investor there, I cannot say how valuable I have found the range of information, updates and views put forward by every one of the "regulars".

The amount of time and effort it takes to be so involved is amazing, and I have nothing but admiration for those guys whose interest in the subject of Dubai construction projects serves to keep me, and no doubt many others around the world, so well informed.

It is entirely inappropriate for anyone who is doing such good work to be called a moron or any of the other insults levelled recently. As far as I am concerned, everyone who logs on to SSC should be treated with respect, particularly those who keep everyone so well informed. Anyone who disputes what I am saying does not deserve the priviledge of visiting this web site.

Thanks for your reply Dubaiflo.