We put an old fax machine through their office's window in Handforth, with the request letter in it, and that worked. :banana:

However, we also got a follow up bill for the repairs to their premises. We are awaiting solicitors letters before paying out.

On a more serious note, with the 40% drop in prices since Q4'08 reported recently by a leading property consultant in Dubai, the largest drop on the planet, apart from Croatia, it is becoming increasingly attractive to take the cancellation option, even though the exchange rate is starting to head South on us.

My main worry, however, is whether we will actually get paid out?

Has anyone actually had confirmation from TS that they will refund all monies and when this will occur?

Regards

The Torch


Does Torch Select not know that they are dealing with The Torch?

We put an old fax machine through their office's window in Handforth, with the request letter in it, and that worked. :banana:

However, we also got a follow up bill for the repairs to their premises. We are awaiting solicitors letters before paying out.

On a more serious note, with the 40% drop in prices since Q4'08 reported recently by a leading property consultant in Dubai, the largest drop on the planet, apart from Croatia, it is becoming increasingly attractive to take the cancellation option, even though the exchange rate is starting to head South on us.

My main worry, however, is whether we will actually get paid out?

Has anyone actually had confirmation from TS that they will refund all monies and when this will occur?

Regards

The Torch

Sadly, no cast iron confirmation. Ominously, SG no longer talk of 'the right to terminate' mentioned in the contract; instead it's 'refund requests'. And these will be 'subject to the approval, procedures and timescales of RERA'.

My guess is that by mid-July this forum will be buzzing with Torch owners wanting to lobby RERA. Chances are that RERA will be fully in favour of us getting our refunds but whether they can force the developer to divvy up the cash, especially if they don't have the funds both to honour this contractual obligation and to continue building, is another matter...

Like you, I regret the fact that the exchange rate has been heading the wrong way since I issued my first termination notice in February. My guess is that the developer's strategy is to try to stall refunds until the place is built then try to persuade us to accept handover, but in the unlikely event that they do write out a refund cheque to me, we're now close to the tipping point where I'll recycle that cash into completed Dubai units or property in another market linked to the currency (the US?) rather than turn it back into Sterling at a disadvantageous rate. I suspect that the US will take a long time to recover, unless it inflates its way out of its parlous debt burden, whereas I know I can buy completed Dubai units at 25 percent below Torch pricing, with no risk of non-completion and immediate rental cashflows, so that's my most likely option.

Don't want to unnecessarily worry torch investors, but I can't seem to find it on RERA's progress website:

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/home/projects.do?lang=0

I can find the Point and Bay Central (and even west avenue ffs!), but no torch? Anyone shed any light? :dunno:

Don't want to unnecessarily worry torch investors, but I can't seem to find it on RERA's progress website:

http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/home/projects.do?lang=0

I can find the Point and Bay Central (and even west avenue ffs!), but no torch? Anyone shed any light? :dunno:

A spelling mistake.(THE TOURCH).View and find info.developer/master developers.

A spelling mistake.(THE TOURCH).View and find info.developer/master developers.

mistake? I pointed it out 6 months ago, it's not a mistake

mistake? I pointed it out 6 months ago, it's not a mistake

The last time I looked, Mr. Noor Khan was listed as the owner of The Tourch (:lol:), and the contact details were Ernst & Young! I phoned E&Y and they hadn't a clue what I was talking about. I still have the snapshot.

Approached, Mr. Noor Khan wrote in his own 'without prejudice' email in January:

"We are not responsible for any inaccuracy on any website, may it be RPDUBAI.COM. Mr. Noor is an employee of the group and does not own anything"

The last time I looked, Mr. Noor Khan was listed as the owner of The Tourch (:lol:), and the contact details were Ernst & Young! I phoned E&Y and they hadn't a clue what I was talking about. I still have the snapshot.

Approached, Mr. Noor Khan wrote in his own 'without prejudice' email in January:

"We are not responsible for any inaccuracy on any website, may it be RPDUBAI.COM. Mr. Noor is an employee of the group and does not own anything"

When I open the link and click view it shows the developers as The Torch Select Ltd.Master developers Emaar Properties.???

31/May/2009

Dubai Marina, tallest block

http://i40.tinypic.com/24gm8hd.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/nmlson.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/hs6p9d.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/21lpimu.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ah8hnl.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/cjpmv.jpg

Many thanks for the photos as always Imre; - You're a star! It makes a welcome change to see something actually connected with construction on this thread.

Yep Thanks IMRE
- TT has caught up with PINNACLE now another milestone

In about 4-6 weeks The Torch will be the tallest building in the whole of the Marina and surrounding areas.

The views from the top must be simply amazing now.

^^ Hold your horses men ... there's a 362 meters tall tower in JLT. :D

Ok Fair enough, I will settle for the tallest building in the Marina, for as long as it lasts anyway . :)

Been on Torch site today and also the Point and Bay Central
Some good progress on all sites lately. Went right to the top and they were casting the 65th I think.

Not taken any photos (lost my camera and blackberry at the airport, security gate of all places).

I am here for a week and will check on here in a couple of days. First 5 requests within the Marina will be accommodated; I will buy a camera shortly when I get time.

Who said there were no tenants? Plenty around but you have to be realistic with your pricing.

Extremely hot here now and almost unbearable. :cheers:

Sorry to hear about your blackberry and camera Mackie.......what a shame. Some pics of Bay Central would be very nice please. :)

Been on Torch site today and also the Point and Bay Central
Some good progress on all sites lately. Went right to the top and they were casting the 65th I think.
--- snip ---

Huh ?
U went to the top of the Torch ?
The security guards allow u up ??

Huh ?
U went to the top of the Torch ?
The security guards allow u up ??

Safety officer took me up to the top and we checked a few floors on the way down, a random selection to check on progress/fixes ….etc. Had a look at mine an the show apartments too. Very little difference from the point interiors. :cheers:

Ok Fair enough, I will settle for the tallest building in the Marina, for as long as it lasts anyway . :)


http://i41.tinypic.com/23qzaf8.jpg

Safety officer took me up to the top and we checked a few floors on the way down, a random selection to check on progress/fixes ….etc. Had a look at mine an the show apartments too. Very little difference from the point interiors. :cheers:

Are the show apartments finished? Shame about your camera. Can anyone get access to take pictures of the show apartments. I'de also like a picture of a corner balcony with somebody standing on it.

Safety officer took me up to the top and we checked a few floors on the way down, a random selection to check on progress/fixes ….etc. Had a look at mine an the show apartments too. Very little difference from the point interiors.


Mackie could you please let me know which floors & apartment numbers they have used for the show/mock ones :cheers:

Does Torch Select not know that they are dealing with The Torch?

Joking (hence .... "on a serious note.....")

I guess I will get the blame though, if somebody decides to lob a fax machine through their window now !!

The Torch

... I'de also like a picture of a corner balcony with somebody standing on it.

Scooby can do. :D

^^ WB mackie, feeling more positive about our Torchy now huh? Did you buy a new camera yet? Try and get one £100 below your budget as you need to set that cash aside for me later :)

Extremely hot here now and almost unbearable. :cheers:

Dont be a wuss - some of us work outside all day..:lol:

Are the show apartments finished? Shame about your camera. Can anyone get access to take pictures of the show apartments. I'de also like a picture of a corner balcony with somebody standing on it.

I have spent the last 2 weeks searching google aka the world to find a more boring, dull and tiny balcony which is small enough to fit just a single chair a communist, presumably perfect for indulging in a good book e.g. Das Kapital

I remember complaining when they changed the plans and specifications of our apartment and the balcony was reduced and they told us the apartment would be 1225 sq ft instead of 1123 sq ft. I think that makes it over 10 sq metres bigger. They said the balcony would be 3.7 m sq. Nobody else seemed to complain at the time. Too late now!!

Just found the original plan and the balcony was 13 m sq. What a bummer!!

Does anyone else have a corner apartment and doesn't realise this?

I have spent the last 2 weeks searching google aka the world to find a more boring, dull and tiny balcony which is small enough to fit just a single chair a communist, presumably perfect for indulging in a good book e.g. Das Kapital

Another observation, when we were in the Marina, close to The Torch, it seemed like a bit of a ghost town, maybe because it was a Saturday around 4pm, the cafes and restaurants were almost completely deserted.

On the Sunday night we tried Frankies (thanks CBP), more of a buzz in that rather nice upmarket area, but still....

One wonders if the apartments were ready now, how much interest they would generate...

Just found the original plan and the balcony was 13 m sq. What a bummer!!

We are gonna sue their asses, that's for sure.

Just found the original plan and the balcony was 13 m sq. What a bummer!!

And don't forget if we did squeeze a chair into the balcony the view to the sides would be whatever wallpaper you put un on those massive 1 meter thick walls.

The Torch is on the left side.

http://i44.tinypic.com/63yvxh.jpg:banana:

Sorry to hear about your blackberry and camera Mackie.......what a shame. Some pics of Bay Central would be very nice please. :)

Morris did you sell your Torch apartment yet?

http://i39.tinypic.com/2af0jdt.jpg

View from our first large balcony in the Royal Meridien.

View from the second large balcony in the Royal Meridien.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2z3rx9e.jpg

Just found the original plan and the balcony was 13 m sq. What a bummer!!


Excuse me for being thick.

does 13 m sq mean I can walk 4 metres in one direction, do a 90 degree turn and then 3 metres?

Yes that's right or it could be 6m in one direction then 2 metres. I should have said 13 sq m.
I suppose 13 m sq means 13m x 13m.

thanks. I must admit I would rather have more space inside than out.. if I had to chose.

Yes that's right or it could be 6m in one direction then 2 metres. I should have said 13 sq m.
I suppose 13 m sq means 13m x 13m.

Sorry Sheltie, this is your balcony.

http://i39.tinypic.com/b6ouue.jpg

Morris did you sell your Torch apartment yet?

Yes Steve have sold at original price via SP Resales department, I was on SPP. Carl Donaldson the Resales Director at SP has been looking after me and can highly recommend him, really nice guy and very professional. Very sad to lose my TT unit but financial issues meant best to offload it now IMO. Have to pay SP 5% commission which is a bit steep, but you get what you pay for as they say.

Nice one Morris, welcome to the club!

(Only i got a lil more than resale value for mine coz im a jammy git! :D)

I was worried to get into that balcony just in case I got stuck :lol:

http://i41.tinypic.com/b81xl2.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/io3cdi.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2z6rqz7.jpg


First thing I saw in bed this morning, sad but true. Sorry the windows are dirty :)



http://i39.tinypic.com/68eu5y.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2f08wfc.jpg

Scooby whatever happened to the internal pictures you were going to put up? Would love to see the finishes.

Yes that's right or it could be 6m in one direction then 2 metres. I should have said 13 sq m.
I suppose 13 m sq means 13m x 13m.

:ohno: :ohno:

(13m x 13m = 169 sq m)


I was worried to get into that balcony just in case I got stuck :lol:

Are you sure the problem was in the balcony :D



;) :cheers:

http://i42.tinypic.com/wunkt0.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/k3ujog.jpg

I have spent the last 2 weeks searching google aka the world to find a more boring, dull and tiny balcony which is small enough to fit just a single chair a communist, presumably perfect for indulging in a good book e.g. Das Kapital

^^ You didn't look hard enough

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1280/967118378_b56188611d.jpg?v=0

^^ You didn't look hard enough

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1280/967118378_b56188611d.jpg?v=0

That balcony is clearly smaller, but bright. The Torch balcony has huge 1 meter thick walls on the side which makes it far uglier, both from the inside, and from the outside. I'm curious if anyone can post a picture of an uglier balcony.

The world's ugliest balcony competition

Sorry Sheltie, this is your balcony.

http://i39.tinypic.com/b6ouue.jpg

23 Marina balcony almost the same

Don't think I would have bought if I knew at the beginning the balcony was so small.

http://i42.tinypic.com/wunkt0.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/k3ujog.jpg
What are you doin in Iris BLUE Sale ?

Don't think I would have bought if I knew at the beginning the balcony was so small.


Did you not see a drawing or plan before you purchased ?

Thanks to everyone who has posted pictures recently.:cheers:

Things seem to be moving at a good pace now with the structure at least. Shame we dont fully understand how well interior progress is going.

I notice select UK have not updated construction progress on their website since march and are also not contacting people regarding payments etc. I can only assume they have made most of their staff redundant and the remaining few are working from home etc. to cut costs until things improve again.

very true dubai steve...i noticed the same thing as well....also my select section of the site os not updated either.

What are you doin in Iris BLUE Sale ?

mackie was in a buying spree, I was witness to a single handed marina property boom
:banana:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2jbqlhk.jpg

I think the market may be on the turn. Plenty of shit around Diamond etc but good stuff creeping up a bit. Oceanic at 1300 Bayside 1100 Iris Blue orig six view 1340. MP great deals but again creeping up. Paloma front views not around. Get in now if you can guys.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2jbqlhk.jpg Sorry same pic been on the meths

http://i44.tinypic.com/2njkdvb.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/w7ipab.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/29xstat.jpg

I notice select UK have not updated construction progress on their website since march and are also not contacting people regarding payments etc. I can only assume they have made most of their staff redundant and the remaining few are working from home etc. to cut costs until things improve again.

I got a phone call yesterday from their office.

They wanted to know if I required a furniture package,as deposits are being collected.

They must have a poor memory.I'll be cancelling come 30thJune.

mackie was in a buying spree, I was witness to a single handed marina property boom
:banana:

I saw some IB apts at very good prices last week (not that I can buy at present )- I have never been in there but told it very good finish ? unlike TT unfortunately

Hope to be over end June hope will catch up with you then --hope to go up TT and take the camera this time !!

That balcony is clearly smaller, but bright. The Torch balcony has huge 1 meter thick walls on the side which makes it far uglier, both from the inside, and from the outside. I'm curious if anyone can post a picture of an uglier balcony.

The world's ugliest balcony competition

I wonder if we can get planning permission for a conservatory extension outwards from the balcony. It could be quite exciting with a toughened glass floor !! Would be like floating in space.

With the sides being so thick with concrete, it could be a go'er, using modern steel rods bolted to the concrete blocks, extending out towards the marina, say 30 metres, giving excellent panoramic views and about 360 sq m of extra balcony space, for the private gym, full table and chairs, BBQ etc....

Of course, won't last for ever, would have to pull it down as MST gets built, as it would get in the way.

Just a thought?

The Torch

I got a phone call yesterday from their office.

They wanted to know if I required a furniture package,as deposits are being collected.

They must have a poor memory.I'll be cancelling come 30thJune.

I can't understand why SP keep banging on about furniture packages. A couple of weeks ago I got three or four emails from them about it in the space of a couple of days.

Going by their own fantasy construction schedule, which says they'll be topping out in six weeks' time, the apartments are nine months from completion; in reality they're probably a couple of years from handover. What earthly need would we have to order furniture this far in advance, even if we were staying in rather than cancelling on 30 June?

http://i44.tinypic.com/axnnk5.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/24w6pp3.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2enry3r.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/dpcu38.jpg

For internals, please have a look at the point. Except for the white hood, everything is exactly the same, same tiles, same doors, same accessories and white (silver) goods.
Will take some more before I leave in a few days time. :cheers:

Have a nice picture of the Torch - how do I upload it ?

Have a nice picture of the Torch - how do I upload it ?

tinypic.com

upload your image

copy and paste the box with [IMG], should be 3rd down.

If you quote any image you will see the code.

Looking forward to June 30th when these seemingly unnending posts about "cancelling" will presumably stop and the doom and gloom merchants will disappear from this thread.

Good luck to all those who will cancel; - I hope it goes smoothly and you get what you're looking for. If it goes wrong though please don't tell us about it here. Remember there are 658 apartments and only very few people will in reality cancel. The rest of us are interested in the completion of this tower rather than listening to the whingeing of those who have decided to get out.

Can anyone explain why they are are blocking up these gaps in the balcony side walls? If the gaps were left it would extend the balcony to the ledges outside the adjacent rooms similar to what was shown in the original layouts. The reason can't be structural because they are only using breeze blocks to fill the hole in. I doubt it is cost cutting because they are using extra blocks, labor and cladding to cover the area.

Leaving the above mentioned gaps would have resulted in a more use-able balcony with better views.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2040/dpcu38.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/8wmtrn.jpg

Looking forward to June 30th when these seemingly unnending posts about "cancelling" will presumably stop and the doom and gloom merchants will disappear from this thread.

Good luck to all those who will cancel; - I hope it goes smoothly and you get what you're looking for. If it goes wrong though please don't tell us about it here. Remember there are 658 apartments and only very few people will in reality cancel. The rest of us are interested in the completion of this tower rather than listening to the whingeing of those who have decided to get out.

If the developer breaks its contractual obligation to issue refunds to those of us who want to cancel, why do you think that would be? Just to annoy us? Or because they're running out of cash?

If it's the latter, we might just be doing you a service to let you know about it. Granted, you may decide to keep paying the instalments and pray they somehow finish the project, or you might not, it's up to you. But if we failed to tell you about it, and the project subsequently went t**s up, you might not be best pleased.

On a different subject, I met with the Mighty A God today, What a Fantastic Guy, enjoyed every minute in his company :master: :master: :master: :master:

^^Did you make a wish????? :)

http://i39.tinypic.com/1zn4f83.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/292qr6a.jpg

On a different subject, I met with the Mighty A God today, What a Fantastic Guy, enjoyed every minute in his company :master: :master: :master: :master:


Heh, your not so bad yourself, (I fixed the chair)

ALan

^^Did you make a wish????? :)

Oh! you mean AGOD. And here’s me thinking…A god …..GOD.
Please excuse me…… my brain is not in my head today.

I think the market may be on the turn. Plenty of shit around Diamond etc but good stuff creeping up a bit. Oceanic at 1300 Bayside 1100 Iris Blue orig six view 1340. MP great deals but again creeping up. Paloma front views not around. Get in now if you can guys.


LOL - good try, I take it you are trying to sell something. :lol:


With a declining population and an increasing supply of units there is only one way that prices are going this year - South...

I saw some IB apts at very good prices last week (not that I can buy at present )- I have never been in there but told it very good finish ? unlike TT unfortunately

Hope to be over end June hope will catch up with you then --hope to go up TT and take the camera this time !!

IB is an above average finish. Not a lot of glass and a lot of walls making them darkish. Swimming pool and bbq deck the beat in the marina, gym very very small. I was in there today, another concern is vacant plot to the rear. Look you cant have it all and in a few years time what a view of Infinity etc you will have.

I can't understand why SP keep banging on about furniture packages. A couple of weeks ago I got three or four emails from them about it in the space of a couple of days.

Going by their own fantasy construction schedule, which says they'll be topping out in six weeks' time, the apartments are nine months from completion; in reality they're probably a couple of years from handover. What earthly need would we have to order furniture this far in advance, even if we were staying in rather than cancelling on 30 June?

This will be the highest in that area in 6 weeks.

LOL - good try, I take it you are trying to sell something. :lol:


With a declining population and an increasing supply of units there is only one way that prices are going this year - South...


Dont be a prick. I aint selling nothing, buying in fact not that its fuck all to do with you. Go find me a Altessa 01 or Paloma 03 for sub 1300 ad I will give you a profit tosspot. Only shit is going south. What do you or your bank own?

Dont be a prick. I aint selling nothing, buying in fact not that its fuck all to do with you. Go find me a Altessa 01 or Paloma 03 for sub 1300 ad I will give you a profit tosspot. Only shit is going south. What do you or your bank own?

Are you always this unpleasant?

If the developer breaks its contractual obligation to issue refunds to those of us who want to cancel, why do you think that would be? Just to annoy us? Or because they're running out of cash?

If it's the latter, we might just be doing you a service to let you know about it. Granted, you may decide to keep paying the instalments and pray they somehow finish the project, or you might not, it's up to you. But if we failed to tell you about it, and the project subsequently went t**s up, you might not be best pleased.

For those investors wishing to apply for a refund of instalments, a word of advice from me would be, "dont hold your breath".

As we all know, the Dubai real estate market has suffered a full blown crash over the last 8 months or so, and despite what the local press would like you to believe it is going to be years before the existing supply chain has been absorbed and any kind of sensible supply/demand ratio is returned.

From a Torch investors perspective, contractually we are all entitled to apply for a refund of any moneys paid if our units are not handed over at a certain date (dependent on individual contracts). I genuinely believe that those of us who decide to take this route for whatever reason will eventually get a refund, but it will be returned at the discretion of the developer (from a time point of view).

The refund process will need to be managed carefully so as not to put additional cash restraints on getting the project finished. All developers in Dubai are about as close to being bankrupt as you can dare to be at the moment. From Nakheel through to Emaar, Select Group and everyone in between. The name of the game is survival and anyone involved with regulating the way these nasty developers behave have the same ‘modus operandi’. Get projects finished and reduce the likelihood of failure for all concerned

If a developer is put in a position where a substantial number of investors wish to claim a refund, they will simply speak with RERA and explain that if they proceed to pay refunds the project will suffer and could be put in jeopardy. RERA will allow a deferral of refund payments as they are more concerned with the bigger picture of half built projects closing down all over Dubai. Emaar are issuing credit notes on cancelled projects for FFS !!

As an investor you are then left to pursue a refund in the Dubai property courts which could take up to 2 years judging by recent reports I have seen. The courts are governed by the ruler, who is in charge of RERA, who controls Dubai, (get the picture)?

Those with a cynical mind may wish to consider this;

If Select accept your refund request but are allowed by RERA to defer it, for 6-12-18 months or so, you will find yourself at the mercy of the Dubai property market all over again. Select will simply put your unit up for sale with their own resale department, and the many others that they use in Dubai. All you will have done by requesting a refund in my view, is fixing the maximum amount you can get for your unit for an undisclosed period of time when potentially the value of a Torch unit could increase significantly (due to the project nearing completion, and actually completing).

Select then have the luxury of selling (near complete/complete properties) at any price they can sell them for, whilst only being liable to refund actual payments that have been made by you, the investor.

Obviously we are all in different situations and I am not trying to sway anyones opinion as to what is the right thing to do. All I am saying is think carefully before putting it in writing that you want a refund as you could be signing an acceptance letter to sell your unit at offer price without knowing how long you may have to wait to get your funds and what your unit will be worth in 6-12-18 months when it can be sold as a completed property.

On a separate note;

If anyone wants to agree to a refund with Select that owns a Marina facing unit above the 40th floor please PM me with the details and we can talk.

Once again thanks to everyone who is posting pictures lately. We have been really spiolt with the number, quality and variety of pics being posted. Thank you. :cheers:

Are you always this unpleasant?

Yes.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ex118x.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/23law55.jpg

As we all know, the Dubai real estate market has suffered a full blown crash over the last 8 months or so, and despite what the local press would like you to believe it is going to be years before the existing supply chain has been absorbed and any kind of sensible supply/demand ratio is returned.



How many years do you estimate? - I'm planning on 5-7 but wont take a hit unless it goes over 10.

http://i39.tinypic.com/qzk87n.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/jj22a1.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/1c16q.jpg

How many years do you estimate? - I'm planning on 5-7 but wont take a hit unless it goes over 10.

I estimate that prices will double from current (now approx. original) price in Dubai in between 5 and 7 years time.

On a separate note, I agree with HT, anyone cancelling their Torch apartment now is a mug as you would most likely not get your refund for some considerable time until Select sell it on at a profit, no matter what lawyer you spend your money on to help you. If you need to return now at original purchase price because you took too much on and are now broke, you should have put it on the market earlier this year instead of waiting for Jun 30.

I estimate that prices will double from current (now approx. original) price in Dubai in between 5 and 7 years time.

On a separate note, I agree with HT, anyone cancelling their Torch apartment now is a mug as you would most likely not get your refund for some considerable time until Select sell it on at a profit, no matter what lawyer you spend your money on to help you. If you need to return now at original purchase price because you took too much on and are now broke, you should have put it on the market earlier this year instead of waiting for Jun 30.

I have a question please kind people, what if you ask for a refund and later change your mind during the never ending select excuses?

I guess Torch Developments will not be able to refund either and will most certainly defer payments for as long as possible
I would suggest that most people would just be better off selling at OP which may be quickest way to refund ?
By end of 2009 could be some buyers again

I have a question please kind people, what if you ask for a refund and later change your mind during the never ending select excuses?


And by the way we tried putting ours on the market 2 weeks before the market dropped in dubai, when by a coincidence the exchange rate was out of this world, but it generated no interest, some people on this forum insisted on exaggerated prices which were totally unachievable, lies and more damned lies, we never believed them. M people for example have been such damned liars over the millenium :bash: N also, & T too at times.

Always listen to scoobu, I would agree with Stevie on this occasion.

^^ The lack of interest then was partly because the Torch was not visibly close to completion then. If you were trying to sell it as it is now back then it would have got some interest as a reasonable rate. Remember some here have sold ok, including Naz and mackie who made a tidy profit and morris just sold his now. Better homes also gave a me a list of what they sold back in the good times and the sale price (not asking price).

I have a question please kind people, what if you ask for a refund and later change your mind during the never ending select excuses?

They will charge you a commision of 5% for selling it for you then apply a premium of a further 5% for letting you buy your apartment back. Don't forget the 2% registration fee for registering the new owner with interim land register. Basically nothing will happen but SP will net 12% for doing nothing.:cheers:

BTW have you all read the news on the Point thread about the SP addendum to contract you must sign before you get your keys and after you have paid your final invoice. You must agree that you can not rent your apartment to anyone until they have had a full security screening, blood test, DNA sample and family tree proof dating back 3 generations. You are forbidden to live in the apartment if you have a Z in your name, hence the reason Zorba Mackie had to sell up:laugh: Obviously Naz had to sell due to his stay at Guantanimo Bay:)

There you go Steve, I managed not to mention Dorrabay or The Jewe.....................ahh...shit!!!!:bash:

The number of workers(both inside and outside) on this site is unbelievable comparing with the few on the Torch :)


http://i40.tinypic.com/14c8dtu.jpg




Not sure if it is temp or will last but everyone is buying at the moment and good units are vanishing if you don't make your mind up quick. Not talking about Diamond or DEC ...etc.

There is a mass migration (in Dubai terms) of people from one area to another, Marina, Palm and Springs seem to be the hottest spots at the moment. I was with a good agent yesterday who sold 8 units in one day and only 2 a month for the last 5 months. Let us hope it continues.

Many tenants are also around at the moment, I got a few 1 BRs and they are all now rented out @8 to 9% and 2 BR(exceptional location and view) @ 10%.
Trying to get some 1 BRs in Timeplace and Bayside but people have raised their prices by about 10% over the last few days because of the number of tenants around.

All the above are facts on the ground and not hearsay and yes crazy scoopy, I sold at the time like I told you @ 1550/sqft. :cheers:

Al and I were discussing that issue regarding the refund yesterday and we were of the same opinion as people above and in fact I held this position months ago, when I came in March and saw how useless RERA and the Dubai system is. For me, if you are on LPP, you would be mad to hand it back especially if the current trend continues. Marina mall and MOE were full over the last couple of days and I am optimistic again about the future of Dubai, short and long term but that is just my opinion and please do not take it as a recommendation, do what suits your circumstances.

Have a great weekend guys, I am off to Abu Dhabi for a BBQ with some friends.

Carefull Applemac will have you as a liar.

Charlie Big Potatoes,

I reckon SP have over committed on these furniture packs hence the heavy push to sell them. I think the original idea came from the UK where they don't understand the rental dynamic in Dubai. IMO Most Dubai renters have accumulated their own furniture especially beds so my intention would be to rent unfurnished and then you don't have the age old problem when the tenant says " I don't like the sofa and I've got my own bed - please could you store the furniture" - Don't need that S***.

Charlie Big Potatoes,

I reckon SP have over committed on these furniture packs hence the heavy push to sell them. I think the original idea came from the UK where they don't understand the rental dynamic in Dubai. IMO Most Dubai renters have accumulated their own furniture especially beds so my intention would be to rent unfurnished and then you don't have the age old problem when the tenant says " I don't like the sofa and I've got my own bed - please could you store the furniture" - Don't need that S***.

Great posts from Dubai Steve and High Times; - thank god for their common sense approach re the 30th June refund hype. I hope those who have been hell bent on this approach have reassessed and decided to sell their units instead.

^^ The lack of interest then was partly because the Torch was not visibly close to completion then. If you were trying to sell it as it is now back then it would have got some interest as a reasonable rate. Remember some here have sold ok, including Naz and mackie who made a tidy profit and morris just sold his now. Better homes also gave a me a list of what they sold back in the good times and the sale price (not asking price).

Would you mind posting this info? I have always enjoyed a bit of history.

05/June/2009

The Torch

http://i43.tinypic.com/309hd2r.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/152du9i.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2aael9u.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2akk008.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/257mwk7.jpg

Can anybody suggest why the side of the building facing MH (so called "Marina View" side) does not have any glass cladding in place above the first mechanical floor? The other sides seem way ahead in this respect. There is a lift running up the outside of the tower on this side; - could that have something to do with it?

05/June/2009

The Torch

http://i43.tinypic.com/2n9ixzr.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/dbskk0.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/nd5shg.jpg

Mistermark and Talks
What do you think about the above discussions re refunds? I know you are both thinking about terminating. I was too but am very confused now about what to do.

Mistermark and Talks
What do you think about the above discussions re refunds? I know you are both thinking about terminating. I was too but am very confused now about what to do.

I think HT is absolutely right, but that won't stop me terminating if I can't sell.

While the property courts are indeed a joke, with a 2-3 year backlog and randomised verdicts, the alternative route is to issue a demand for payment, prove the company didn't pay, then go down the insolvency route via the commercial court. If they have the money, they'll pay up to stop it. If they don't, chances are you were never going to get your apartment anyway as they were on the brink of insolvency.

My preferred option has always been to sell the units if possible.

In the pic above the balconies on the corners above the mech floors have a division. Are these 2 seperate balconies for 2 seperate flats? Please advise.

http://i43.tinypic.com/34643sx.jpg

Mistermark and Talks
What do you think about the above discussions re refunds? I know you are both thinking about terminating. I was too but am very confused now about what to do.



Indeed a great post for everyone from HT and not just for those wishing to terminate.

In my option SP are a great selling machine and I believe they have no worries about those who wish to cancel.Presently I believe they have prebooked dirhams at about 5.2AED/1GBP as they have a rough guess on the number of terminations.

I also believe SP/SG are not very well liked in Dubai as they messed about a lot of professional people,so they now will want to prove a point to everyone that they are capable of running a good business.

Terminations will be dealt with as per contracts otherwise they will have a long year in front of them.

We have a great thread here with great photo's everyday and we can see what's happening daily.I feel I'am lucky to have chosen this development as their is alot of cheating developers out there but now I beleive SP/SG will not be one of them.

Am I going to terminate?Flip of a coin.

In the pic above the balconies on the corners above the mech floors have a division. Are these 2 seperate balconies for 2 seperate flats? Please advise.

You got it, it's 2 balconies for 2 apartments.

I think they must be about 16ft2 each. If you have a party you will have to advise your guests that it is not an alternative guest bathroom otherwise we will be getting more rain in Dubai.

For those investors wishing to apply for a refund of instalments, a word of advice from me would be, "dont hold your breath".

As we all know, the Dubai real estate market has suffered a full blown crash over the last 8 months or so, and despite what the local press would like you to believe it is going to be years before the existing supply chain has been absorbed and any kind of sensible supply/demand ratio is returned.

From a Torch investors perspective, contractually we are all entitled to apply for a refund of any moneys paid if our units are not handed over at a certain date (dependent on individual contracts). I genuinely believe that those of us who decide to take this route for whatever reason will eventually get a refund, but it will be returned at the discretion of the developer (from a time point of view).

The refund process will need to be managed carefully so as not to put additional cash restraints on getting the project finished. All developers in Dubai are about as close to being bankrupt as you can dare to be at the moment. From Nakheel through to Emaar, Select Group and everyone in between. The name of the game is survival and anyone involved with regulating the way these nasty developers behave have the same ‘modus operandi’. Get projects finished and reduce the likelihood of failure for all concerned

If a developer is put in a position where a substantial number of investors wish to claim a refund, they will simply speak with RERA and explain that if they proceed to pay refunds the project will suffer and could be put in jeopardy. RERA will allow a deferral of refund payments as they are more concerned with the bigger picture of half built projects closing down all over Dubai. Emaar are issuing credit notes on cancelled projects for FFS !!

As an investor you are then left to pursue a refund in the Dubai property courts which could take up to 2 years judging by recent reports I have seen. The courts are governed by the ruler, who is in charge of RERA, who controls Dubai, (get the picture)?

Those with a cynical mind may wish to consider this;

If Select accept your refund request but are allowed by RERA to defer it, for 6-12-18 months or so, you will find yourself at the mercy of the Dubai property market all over again. Select will simply put your unit up for sale with their own resale department, and the many others that they use in Dubai. All you will have done by requesting a refund in my view, is fixing the maximum amount you can get for your unit for an undisclosed period of time when potentially the value of a Torch unit could increase significantly (due to the project nearing completion, and actually completing).

Select then have the luxury of selling (near complete/complete properties) at any price they can sell them for, whilst only being liable to refund actual payments that have been made by you, the investor.

Obviously we are all in different situations and I am not trying to sway anyones opinion as to what is the right thing to do. All I am saying is think carefully before putting it in writing that you want a refund as you could be signing an acceptance letter to sell your unit at offer price without knowing how long you may have to wait to get your funds and what your unit will be worth in 6-12-18 months when it can be sold as a completed property.

On a separate note;

If anyone wants to agree to a refund with Select that owns a Marina facing unit above the 40th floor please PM me with the details and we can talk.

Once again thanks to everyone who is posting pictures lately. We have been really spiolt with the number, quality and variety of pics being posted. Thank you. :cheers:

Hi High Times

Having carefully read through your summation, my comments are as follows;

1) You have a very sound grasp of the situation and your summation is bang on.

2) I am sort of at a "coin flip" on selling or keeping, however, always falling on the keeping side for the following reasons, highlighted by yourself;

a) Property has value, built or not. Refunds have promises, which historically have never materialized.

b) It is fairly sure now that the property will get built, as TS will likely ensure this by, if required, delaying refunds. A lot resides on The Torch being built from a reputation point of view - it is their prime development, very high visibility for the company.

c) As a business owner, I have seen the effects of the recession (or depression, depending on your view!), losing some 15% of customer revenues over the last 6 months, however, I am starting to see quite significant and rapid turn around in sales last and this month, almost getting back to pre Oct'08 levels. My type of business is a very good barometer across all markets, as we sell hosting services to a very wide market community, rather than being verticalized to specific markets. It is my belief that the global situation could be cornering and by December, generally could be bouncing back. Whilst those who requested a refund are fighting in the courts, those who, by then, have an apartment nearing completion, should be seeing an increasing value in TT apartments.

d) What else with prime views of the marina is going to be available in the first half of 2010? I think we will have the best of the best views available, all be it not to impressed with the interiors. They will sell on views alone I believe.

3) My coin flipping stops now - we stick hold, support SP and TS to get the project finished and make it stick in 2010, creaming off the profits as required about this time next year.

4) When you actually sit down and think it through like High Times is able to do, most will draw the conclusion it would be insane to cancel now.

Thank you for helping me clarify my indecision High Times. Oh, my 51st floor direct marina view is not for sale (yet) !!!

The Torch

I'm still on the side of terminating again on 1 July. Three reasons:

1. Even if they won't, or can't, refund the sums paid to date, once you've issued a valid termination notice, they can't ask you for any further instalments. If you don't cancel and can't sell, you've still got to fork out for the instalments (assuming you're on the LPP)

2. Check out the state of the s**t-holes they're asking buyers in The Point to accept. I grew up in a 1960s council house which, by the time we got there in the mid-70s, had a better fitted kitchen than these supposedly 'luxuriously appointed' apartments

3. Also check out the contracts that all Point buyers on the LPP are being told to sign, on pain of being denied keys to their units if they don't. Amongst other things, they have to get their tenants to sign away their right to remain if the owner gets into arrears with the service charges or LPP. In the current oversupplied market, what tenant is going to agree to this? And if the owner doesn't get them to sign, they lose the property. Nice.

As far as I'm concerned, my dealings with SP/SG are at an end. I'd rather bin the units entirely and lose everything I've spent to date than have to complete.

I'm still on the side of terminating again on 1 July. Three reasons:

1. Even if they won't, or can't, refund the sums paid to date, once you've issued a valid termination notice, they can't ask you for any further instalments. If you don't cancel and can't sell, you've still got to fork out for the instalments (assuming you're on the LPP)

2. Check out the state of the s**t-holes they're asking buyers in The Point to accept. I grew up in a 1960s council house which, by the time we got there in the mid-70s, had a better fitted kitchen than these supposedly 'luxuriously appointed' apartments

3. Also check out the contracts that all Point buyers on the LPP are being told to sign, on pain of being denied keys to their units if they don't. Amongst other things, they have to get their tenants to sign away their right to remain if the owner gets into arrears with the service charges or LPP. In the current oversupplied market, what tenant is going to agree to this? And if the owner doesn't get them to sign, they lose the property. Nice.

As far as I'm concerned, my dealings with SP/SG are at an end. I'd rather bin the units entirely and lose everything I've spent to date than have to complete.

Would you like me to mediate between you and SP? Offer is only to you as we have spoken a few times :cheers:

Would you like me to mediate between you and SP? Offer is only to you as we have spoken a few times :cheers:

I'll be phoning and/or emailing Giles on Monday to sum up my position. Depending on how this goes, I could be interested in taking up your kind offer :cheers::cheers:.

Would you like me to mediate between you and SP? Offer is only to you as we have spoken a few times :cheers:


Mr. Mark, in your opinion, what happens if you cancel, then, fed up with never-ending excuses as to why the refund is not forthcoming, or otherwise, decide to change you mind. What happens then?

Mr. Mark, in your opinion, what happens if you cancel, then, fed up with never-ending excuses as to why the refund is not forthcoming, or otherwise, decide to change you mind. What happens then?

Interesting question. My aim in cancelling is to get my money back. The developer's aim in failing to honour the cancellation is to avoid having to issue a refund. Their hope is that they can re-sell the units before I can get them through an insolvency procedure. If they succeed, I get my money back via that route, and the problem goes away. If they fail, they'll settle on the court-room steps if they can afford it, or go under if they can't.

In this scenario, the only time I'd be likely to have second thoughts about cancelling is if the market improved such that I couldn't replace my Torch units with completed ones in other projects for less money. Should this come to pass, you'd assume they'd be able to re-sell the units for the OP, resulting in me going away... Plus it's no skin off their noses to let me withdraw my cancellation, since their motivation is simply to avoid having to issue a refund. They know I have the means to make the LPP instalments, whereas they'd be taking a gamble with a new buyer, so they have nothing to gain from swapping me out if I'm willing to stay in.

I am new to this forum. I have been reading comments on this forum on a daily basis. There some interesting points. I would be grateful if some one can enlighten me on Mistermark's points regarding LPP and what they are trying to achieve with The point customers by getting them to sign a contarct regarding getting their keys to their apartment. It sounds criminal....can SP do this?
Do you think, this will happen with the LPP customers in The Torch project.

:ohno:

I am new to this forum. I have been reading comments on this forum on a daily basis. There some interesting points. I would be grateful if some one can enlighten me on Mistermark's points regarding LPP and what they are trying to achieve with The point customers by getting them to sign a contarct regarding getting their keys to their apartment. It sounds criminal....can SP do this?
Do you think, this will happen with the LPP customers in The Torch project.

:ohno:

For the full details, check out the thread for The Point - they've even posted the entire side agreement.

I think the purpose of the extra contract is to protect the developer against the possibility of people getting into arrears with their service charges or LPP instalments between handover and making the final instalment and hence owning their units outright. The reason they're doing this is that they plan to sell on the future value of the LPP instalments to an investor.

The problem IMO is that there was no incentive or compensation offered, but a threat; if they refuse to sign, they can't have their keys, simple as that.

Given that the LPP is basically the same on The Torch, I'd be stunned if they didn't try to pull the same trick on Torch owners too.

Does any one have the link to The point thread. Thanks

Does any one have the link to The point thread. Thanks

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=335563&page=92

For the full details, check out the thread for The Point - they've even posted the entire side agreement.

I think the purpose of the extra contract is to protect the developer against the possibility of people getting into arrears with their service charges or LPP instalments between handover and making the final instalment and hence owning their units outright. The reason they're doing this is that they plan to sell on the future value of the LPP instalments to an investor.

The problem IMO is that there was no incentive or compensation offered, but a threat; if they refuse to sign, they can't have their keys, simple as that.

Given that the LPP is basically the same on The Torch, I'd be stunned if they didn't try to pull the same trick on Torch owners too.

And BC.

I'll be phoning and/or emailing Giles on Monday to sum up my position. Depending on how this goes, I could be interested in taking up your kind offer :cheers::cheers:.

I would phone him if i were you.:cheers:

THE TORCH FROM A RECENT GOOGLE EARTH UPDATE

http://i40.tinypic.com/f05ao5.jpg

sorry to post this but just found another distressed sale in the marina...

For Sale: Dubai Marina, Torch Tower, 1 BR, 904 sqft, Marina View, Ready Dec 2009. AED 795,644 (= AED 880/sq ft)

Gulf News

Although there are now very few distressed sales, the odd one still pops up!

sorry to post this but just found another distressed sale in the marina...

For Sale: Dubai Marina, Torch Tower, 1 BR, 904 sqft, Marina View, Ready Dec 2009. AED 795,644 (= AED 880/sq ft)

Gulf News

Although there are now very few distressed sales, the odd one still pops up!

:lol: :nuts:

sorry to post this but just found another distressed sale in the marina...

For Sale: Dubai Marina, Torch Tower, 1 BR, 904 sqft, Marina View, Ready Dec 2009. AED 795,644 (= AED 880/sq ft)

Gulf News

Although there are now very few distressed sales, the odd one still pops up!

People still trying to get 880 in this tower? What a ....ing liberty.

People still trying to get 880 in this tower? What a ....ing liberty.

What was the OP price sq ft?

What was the OP price sq ft?

I believe the lowest was a little over AED 900/sq ft. Maybe 907. Prices rose with higher floors, the average was probably 1000 or a little more.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2aeniaw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/5esg06.jpg

^^ April 2005 prices (1,500 days ago)

Clear marina view for many years yet.

http://i43.tinypic.com/f0c561.jpg

I'm still on the side of terminating again on 1 July. Three reasons:

1. Even if they won't, or can't, refund the sums paid to date, once you've issued a valid termination notice, they can't ask you for any further instalments. If you don't cancel and can't sell, you've still got to fork out for the instalments (assuming you're on the LPP)

2. Check out the state of the s**t-holes they're asking buyers in The Point to accept. I grew up in a 1960s council house which, by the time we got there in the mid-70s, had a better fitted kitchen than these supposedly 'luxuriously appointed' apartments

3. Also check out the contracts that all Point buyers on the LPP are being told to sign, on pain of being denied keys to their units if they don't. Amongst other things, they have to get their tenants to sign away their right to remain if the owner gets into arrears with the service charges or LPP. In the current oversupplied market, what tenant is going to agree to this? And if the owner doesn't get them to sign, they lose the property. Nice.

As far as I'm concerned, my dealings with SP/SG are at an end. I'd rather bin the units entirely and lose everything I've spent to date than have to complete.

Like many of you I was led to believe that this tower was all about quality-promise after promise of a 5 star lifestyle !!! From what we've all seen so far the kitchens and bathrooms are nothing better than B& Q and will not bring you in the tennants you think when they compare this with other properties in the marina! I know that this is the risk with buying a picture and a promise but i think we have all had the same old crap thrown at us for too long now!! SP think that we will all be comming back for more, should they even survive the global crunch, I regretably also bought in BC because I trusted the business model-- I regret this very much now because business is all about trust and i feel shaffted. The kitchens are a disgrace-the kind of thing you would find in Mexico, if they think we will swallow this and get over it I for one will not. I want to get out now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SP you should be ashamed of yourself at least give your buyers the option of a luxury kitchen for a little bit more money-dont sell us the left overs of the MFI liquidators cupboard !!!!!!!!!!!

Can someone please post a photo of the Torch kitchens. We have only seen one photo so far from select which did not look too bad (conforms to the contract signed) and certainly suitable for long term renting.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg

Why has no one posted any internal photos? Does anyone have photos of the 2 bed kitchens on the high floors? (Please do not post Point photos as the layout is different)

Can someone please post a photo of the Torch kitchens. We have only seen one photo so far from select which did not look too bad (conforms to the contract signed) and certainly suitable for long term renting.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r8hthy.jpg

Why has no one posted any internal photos? Does anyone have photos of the 2 bed kitchens on the high floors? (Please do not post Point photos as the layout is different)

They are all the same and exactly as per the photo you have posted above.
They are just good enough to rent it out but if you are thinking of using it as your home, you would end up changing it. :cheers:

I praise Dubai Select and the management. Eagerly waiting for handover!

Welcome back Ragga!
Where have you been all this time?
Are you in Dubai now?

Also,Where is Joannides?


Many have been to Dubai and returned but no interior pictures.
Did they all take an oath before they were let in?

They are all the same and exactly as per the photo you have posted above.
They are just good enough to rent it out but if you are thinking of using it as your home, you would end up changing it. :cheers:

Lets get this much agreed shall we--- of the other developments in the surrounding areas from 1-10 where do these interiors fall. Please can someone who is well versed in this give us his honest opinions, because when the thousands of appartments on the marina are ready to let out people are going to go for the best ones! These are the facts and although you,ll still be able to cook a meal and wash then dishes in these kitchens they have no WOW factor! They may well be good enough to rent out but only if Dubai has started paying DSS payments

Honest answer, 4 out of 10 with Emaar (MP), Bayside & Iris Blue being 7 out of 10 and with Diamond, DEC and Manchester tower being 2/3 out of 10. Not just the interior but the over all quality. Sorry, you asked to be honest. :cheers:

Hi all,
can anyone advise what price per square foot apartments are being sold for currently in the Torch. In particular Marina Facing, above 60th floor, 2 bed. And can anyone give a "reasonable" projection as to what should be expected upon completion ?

Cheers,
Caoi

We are now are the bottom of the market after a huge crash and you would right now probably only achieve slightly above original 2005 prices if selling. Hold on if you can prices should be on an upward trend again from the end of the year. In hind sight could have been best to have sold before mid 2008 and bought something completed now or buy back into a LPP Torch now.

I will let the cynics and believers comment on this piece:

http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/news/entrepreneur-profiles-and-lists/5644541/mark-stott-select-property.thtml

I use to hold them (Select) in high regard but my latest experience has made me seriously judge them.

I will let the cynics and believers comment on this piece:

http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/news/entrepreneur-profiles-and-lists/5644541/mark-stott-select-property.thtml

I use to hold them (Select) in high regard but my latest experience has made me seriously judge them.

^^
Well, sounds like he shouldn't have a problem paying back any refunds then if he's doing so well!

Hi all,
can anyone advise what price per square foot apartments are being sold for currently in the Torch. In particular Marina Facing, above 60th floor, 2 bed. And can anyone give a "reasonable" projection as to what should be expected upon completion ?

Cheers,
Caoi
OP now and +5% premium on completion ? - green shoots are appearimg everwhere thankgod

We wouldn’t normally comment on subjects like this not related specifically to this project, but we do think it worth clarifying some of the things that may be wrongly interpreted from the article referred to in this thread, which was written following an interview given some time ago and does not give a full and accurate impression of our business.

The £1.3billion value of developments is not a ‘portfolio’ but the value of projects Select Property has been involved in, largely as a sales agent and only recently as a joint venture partner with Select Group in the UAE who, as you know, are the developers and sole owners of the projects we have represented on Dubai Marina. Certainly we wish we had an asset value this high – or even half of it! ..but unfortunately you can’t rely on everything you read in press articles.

That being said, we do remain optimistic about our future prospects in Dubai and elsewhere by working hard to evolve our offerings as the market changes through the challenging times facing the off-plan property market.

^^ thank you for the comments, pleased to see you are still listening :lol:

We wouldn’t normally comment on subjects like this not related specifically to this project, but we do think it worth clarifying some of the things that may be wrongly interpreted from the article referred to in this thread, which was written following an interview given some time ago and does not give a full and accurate impression of our business.

The £1.3billion value of developments is not a ‘portfolio’ but the value of projects Select Property has been involved in, largely as a sales agent and only recently as a joint venture partner with Select Group in the UAE who, as you know, are the developers and sole owners of the projects we have represented on Dubai Marina. Certainly we wish we had an asset value this high – or even half of it! ..but unfortunately you can’t rely on everything you read in press articles.

That being said, we do remain optimistic about our future prospects in Dubai and elsewhere by working hard to evolve our offerings as the market changes through the challenging times facing the off-plan property market.

To me your just a typical bullshitting estate agent with only your own interests at heart... if you were real I'd take you round the back and beat the crap out of you.. I had enough faith in you to spend my life savings and am now getting legal warning letters from your Select Group in UAE..after they have lost 10k that I have sent them, they don't even have the respect to answer my five mails sent, when did you ask me if I was happy to be handed over to another company?? and your answer ''is its not us they have taken over now""

I notice that the Select website has not been updated with recent payments made for June 1st yet. Still says payment due even though was made well before June. Anyone else have the same problem? I have noticed a distinct drop in quality of service from Select over the last few months, must be due to all of the lay offs of staff. For example no payment reminders sent, no website updates, no construction updates, no courtesy calls, not even any sales calls. I was pleased to see that Select Property (UK) still exist.

I notice that the Select website has not been updated with recent payments made for June 1st yet. Still says payment due even though was made well before June. Anyone else have the same problem? I have noticed a distinct drop in quality of service from Select over the last few months, must be due to all of the lay offs of staff. For example no payment reminders sent, no website updates, no construction updates, no courtesy calls, not even any sales calls. I was pleased to see that Select Property (UK) still exist.

Yeah paid three instalments just after mid may, but still nothing, but then when I was promissed calls back from Giles guess what, nothing, nothing at all, and even from staff that Giles said would call me, nothing, perhaps its savings all the way around at Select !!! Oh and a letter I sent in the post to Select UK, no response or acknowledgement at all... but on a positve note I did get 4 emails over 2 days for furniture packs, went straight to TRASH !

Yeah paid three instalments just after mid may, but still nothing, but then when I was promissed calls back from Giles guess what, nothing, nothing at all, and even from staff that Giles said would call me, nothing, perhaps its savings all the way around at Select !!! Oh and a letter I sent in the post to Select UK, no response or acknowledgement at all... but on a positve note I did get 4 emails over 2 days for furniture packs, went straight to TRASH !
I'm telling you the customer service is not what it use to be. I use to be very supportive of them in the early years when many criticised them but I just don't know what has happened to them lately.

It is a shame. Maybe some other folks are getting better treatment - who knows.

To me your just a typical bullshitting estate agent with only your own interests at heart... if you were real I'd take you round the back and beat the crap out of you.. I had enough faith in you to spend my life savings and am now getting legal warning letters from your Select Group in UAE..after they have lost 10k that I have sent them, they don't even have the respect to answer my five mails sent, when did you ask me if I was happy to be handed over to another company?? and your answer ''is its not us they have taken over now""
That's a bit harsh (beat them up bit), Ben40, after all these are real people at the end of the day and are probably doing their job like anyone else.

However I can fully understand your anger and frustration, here is hoping you manage to get better treatment from them going forward.

Ben mate, just to let you know Select UAE are taking about 10 or so days to respond to emails (in my experience), hope that my help you expectations, but don't hold your breath chap.

That's a bit harsh (beat them up bit), Ben40, after all these are real people at the end of the day and are probably doing their job like anyone else.

However I can fully understand your anger and frustration, here is hoping you manage to get better treatment from them going forward.

Hi

I am in the same boat like all of you....on Standard Payment for BOTANICA and paid my 10% in June (60% paid so far) and no reciept at all. MySelect section of the website not updated, no construction updates, no calls answered properly with any conviction, called dubai office a few times (as apparently they have moved their customer service team to dubai, and they could not even bother informing me of this) and so much was the lack of knowledge from their phone staff that I was feeling like banging my head on the wall.

How does select expect me to trust them anymore, paid my installments always on time, all I was asking for was a reciept from them for my payment. I think after paying 60% for a property which has not even broken ground yet, and asking for a mere reciept for my payment is not too much I guess. Promised to be sent an acknowledgement by email but guess what guys, no email whatsoever.

I wonder if the staff they have hired even knows how to hold a mouse properly, let alone type an email. (thats too much effort I guess, or maybe they have promoted one of their construction workers to work in customer services, who is just so happy to sit in an airconditioned office rather than burn his A*S in heat) that he is willing to say yes Mark Stott, No Mark Stott, Three Bags Full Mark Stott, I will take all the shit Mark Stott that he does not care about customers anymore.

Well, a message for the Select Property people who are reading this thread and a business tip for free, get your act together on customer services, or else all this £1.5Billion portfolio that you claim you have (I doubt it), will vanish in no time. All you people will be out of jobs and the only person laughing would be Mr Stott.

Please update your website, give customers some respect, and ask your staff (dubai or UK) to keep to their word. Dont promise things and then not do it. Otherwise, whatever small amount of investors you have left will go away as well.

Select Property; You guys are really lucky that you managed to secure some investors in the beginning of your launch, but trust me with the level of service and grief you are giving to your current investors, you will not be left with any at the end of all the projects being completed (still being optimistic here thinking that all will be completed).

To conclude, if you cannot do any of the above, just please do not be a coward runner and go bust on us.

Select Property does in fact still send out project updates to keep all purchasers informed of construction progress and other contextually relevant news. The frequency of these updates varies depending on the development but we have always kept people informed of our communication schedule along the way. If anyone does not receive these updates, please check that we have your current contact details on our system.

We have also changed the style, length and content of these updates substantially this year in response to feedback from buyers, many of whom have acknowledged the changes positively. Outside of these routine updates, all communication relating to this development now comes from the developer, Select Group, directly.

Having read some of the comments in this thread, one would have to question how many people actually read the updates they receive from Select Property as all this has been clearly outlined over recent months. In spite of our continual attempts to clarify what our business exists to do in contrast to the responsibilities of the developer we represent, it is regrettable that some contributors to this thread will seemingly never comprehend this.

Through our project updates we have explained to all purchasers why the developer has taken all communication relating to payments, contract variations, transfers of ownership and Land Department registrations in-house. Contact details for the developer have been provided for all of these subject areas relating to each development. This decision has been taken by Select Group themselves in order to control these important functions to their business more closely as they enter a new phase of delivery in their business during a period of challenging conditions in the market.
Inevitably purchasers will have to accept some disruption whilst Select Property’s services in this respect ramp down and the developer’s customer care function ramps up.

Select Property has always tried to offer its customers an informed and informative information service using a variety of media. Many of the comments we read here lead us to conclude that purchasers do not value this service and frankly, we do not earn any money for doing any of these things - some of the services we have simply do not make commercial sense any more and like all businesses we have to use our resources economically.

Although Select Property still very much exists, I'm sure nobody reading these pages has failed to notice that the market by which we came into existence is barely recognisable from twelve months ago. What we provide for customers going forward must be driven by the market and everyone connected with The Torch and the other projects we have represented will have to adapt to come to terms with the changes as we have.

We look forward to seeing whether the themes of discussion on this thread move with the times to reflect these changes too..?

Hi

I am in the same boat like all of you....on Standard Payment for BOTANICA and paid my 10% in June (60% paid so far) and no reciept at all. MySelect section of the website not updated, no construction updates, no calls answered properly with any conviction, called dubai office a few times (as apparently they have moved their customer service team to dubai, and they could not even bother informing me of this) and so much was the lack of knowledge from their phone staff that I was feeling like banging my head on the wall.

How does select expect me to trust them anymore, paid my installments always on time, all I was asking for was a reciept from them for my payment. I think after paying 60% for a property which has not even broken ground yet, and asking for a mere reciept for my payment is not too much I guess. Promised to be sent an acknowledgement by email but guess what guys, no email whatsoever.

I wonder if the staff they have hired even knows how to hold a mouse properly, let alone type an email. (thats too much effort I guess, or maybe they have promoted one of their construction workers to work in customer services, who is just so happy to sit in an airconditioned office rather than burn his A*S in heat) that he is willing to say yes Mark Stott, No Mark Stott, Three Bags Full Mark Stott, I will take all the shit Mark Stott that he does not care about customers anymore.

Well, a message for the Select Property people who are reading this thread and a business tip for free, get your act together on customer services, or else all this £1.5Billion portfolio that you claim you have (I doubt it), will vanish in no time. All you people will be out of jobs and the only person laughing would be Mr Stott.

Please update your website, give customers some respect, and ask your staff (dubai or UK) to keep to their word. Dont promise things and then not do it. Otherwise, whatever small amount of investors you have left will go away as well.

Select Property; You guys are really lucky that you managed to secure some investors in the beginning of your launch, but trust me with the level of service and grief you are giving to your current investors, you will not be left with any at the end of all the projects being completed (still being optimistic here thinking that all will be completed).

To conclude, if you cannot do any of the above, just please do not be a coward runner and go bust on us.
Well said.

I notice that the Select website has not been updated with recent payments made for June 1st yet. Still says payment due even though was made well before June. Anyone else have the same problem? I have noticed a distinct drop in quality of service from Select over the last few months, must be due to all of the lay offs of staff. For example no payment reminders sent, no website updates, no construction updates, no courtesy calls, not even any sales calls. I was pleased to see that Select Property (UK) still exist.

I have the same experience. I have emailed, faxed, called and receive no answer or response. Very alarming.

It is ironic how this follows the last April update where we were t old that we would ge an imporved customer service.

Select - if you are listening, please address this problem as perception is key.

Select Property does in fact still send out project updates to keep all purchasers informed of construction progress and other contextually relevant news. The frequency of these updates varies depending on the development but we have always kept people informed of our communication schedule along the way. If anyone does not receive these updates, please check that we have your current contact details on our system.

We have also changed the style, length and content of these updates substantially this year in response to feedback from buyers, many of whom have acknowledged the changes positively. Outside of these routine updates, all communication relating to this development now comes from the developer, Select Group, directly.

Having read some of the comments in this thread, one would have to question how many people actually read the updates they receive from Select Property as all this has been clearly outlined over recent months. In spite of our continual attempts to clarify what our business exists to do in contrast to the responsibilities of the developer we represent, it is regrettable that some contributors to this thread will seemingly never comprehend this.

Through our project updates we have explained to all purchasers why the developer has taken all communication relating to payments, contract variations, transfers of ownership and Land Department registrations in-house. Contact details for the developer have been provided for all of these subject areas relating to each development. This decision has been taken by Select Group themselves in order to control these important functions to their business more closely as they enter a new phase of delivery in their business during a period of challenging conditions in the market.
Inevitably purchasers will have to accept some disruption whilst Select Property’s services in this respect ramp down and the developer’s customer care function ramps up.

Select Property has always tried to offer its customers an informed and informative information service using a variety of media. Many of the comments we read here lead us to conclude that purchasers do not value this service and frankly, we do not earn any money for doing any of these things - some of the services we have simply do not make commercial sense any more and like all businesses we have to use our resources economically.

Although Select Property still very much exists, I'm sure nobody reading these pages has failed to notice that the market by which we came into existence is barely recognisable from twelve months ago. What we provide for customers going forward must be driven by the market and everyone connected with The Torch and the other projects we have represented will have to adapt to come to terms with the changes as we have.

We look forward to seeing whether the themes of discussion on this thread move with the times to reflect these changes too..?

Hello, there seems to be a serious disconnect from what you are saying and the reality that I am experiencing. I have sent multiple emails, fax and tried to call just to receive a receipt for my 1st June payments. I have also contacted my Customer Services representative for assistance and she made contact with Select Group on my behalf to get a receipt and still I have not received anything.

Can you please advise how you can address my request OR how you expect me to feel when there is no communication?

I think that it is a fair and reasonable request for me to receive a receipt for monies sent.

Thank you,

Hello, there seems to be a serious disconnect from what you are saying and the reality that I am experiencing. I have sent multiple emails, fax and tried to call just to receive a receipt for my 1st June payments. I have also contacted my Customer Services representative for assistance and she made contact with Select Group on my behalf to get a receipt and still I have not received anything.

Can you please advise how you can address my request OR how you expect me to feel when there is no communication?

I think that it is a fair and reasonable request for me to receive a receipt for monies sent.

Thank you,



...

Select Property does in fact still send out project updates to keep all purchasers informed of construction progress and other contextually relevant news. The frequency of these updates varies depending on the development but we have always kept people informed of our communication schedule along the way. If anyone does not receive these updates, please check that we have your current contact details on our system.

We have also changed the style, length and content of these updates substantially this year in response to feedback from buyers, many of whom have acknowledged the changes positively. Outside of these routine updates, all communication relating to this development now comes from the developer, Select Group, directly.

Having read some of the comments in this thread, one would have to question how many people actually read the updates they receive from Select Property as all this has been clearly outlined over recent months. In spite of our continual attempts to clarify what our business exists to do in contrast to the responsibilities of the developer we represent, it is regrettable that some contributors to this thread will seemingly never comprehend this.

Through our project updates we have explained to all purchasers why the developer has taken all communication relating to payments, contract variations, transfers of ownership and Land Department registrations in-house. Contact details for the developer have been provided for all of these subject areas relating to each development. This decision has been taken by Select Group themselves in order to control these important functions to their business more closely as they enter a new phase of delivery in their business during a period of challenging conditions in the market.
Inevitably purchasers will have to accept some disruption whilst Select Property’s services in this respect ramp down and the developer’s customer care function ramps up.

Select Property has always tried to offer its customers an informed and informative information service using a variety of media. Many of the comments we read here lead us to conclude that purchasers do not value this service and frankly, we do not earn any money for doing any of these things - some of the services we have simply do not make commercial sense any more and like all businesses we have to use our resources economically.

Although Select Property still very much exists, I'm sure nobody reading these pages has failed to notice that the market by which we came into existence is barely recognisable from twelve months ago. What we provide for customers going forward must be driven by the market and everyone connected with The Torch and the other projects we have represented will have to adapt to come to terms with the changes as we have.

We look forward to seeing whether the themes of discussion on this thread move with the times to reflect these changes too..?

....

After paying ALL payments either early or at least on time for four years I now receive a ''LEGAL PAYMENT NOTICE'' signed by Paul Brady threatening and warning me about late payment !!! late payment for a building that is years late with no apologies, and I have paid on time.. and they still can't answer mails or tell me where or how they have lost my money. I guess when I come to ask to return my place and for my money back in July they will say that I have not made payments or that I am in breach of contract??

I think you've hit the bullseye.

I recently asked SP a simple question: can they point to ANYONE, on any of their projects, that has exercised their right to terminate and actually received a refund? That right existed on The Point from the end of March. It also existed on The Torch between the end of December 2008 and the date on which they issued the Force Majeure letter, and has continued to exist ever since unless you wilfully misinterpret the contract.

Some of the excuses they have used to avoid making repayments are frankly astounding. My guess is that this is why you've received that late payment notice. It may be totally unwarranted, but the legal system in Dubai is sufficiently dysfunctional for any excuse to be sufficient.

http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/news/employment/5636726/mark-stott-business-is-a-bus-journey.thtml

Is it a "bendy" bus per chance?

Given the poor customer relationships recently is it time the bus scheduled a stop to let some people off?

More of the same to keep you informed

http://www.realbusiness.co.uk/news/finance-and-banking/5581006/hes-dead-tight-but-hes-the-right-man-to-hold-the-purse-strings.thtml

It is a shame. Maybe some other folks are getting better treatment - who knows.

I have no issues in terms of communications, Giles, KM & LB have always been exceptionally good in returning emails and attempting to resolve issues. Also in Dubai, K & M have been very good, so I have no complaints in this regard. My complaints were and still are about delivery and quality, had the same position for years but people would not listen :dunno:

I have no issues in terms of communications, Giles, KM & LB have always been exceptionally good in returning emails and attempting to resolve issues. Also in Dubai, K & M have been very good, so I have no complaints in this regard. My complaints were and still are about delivery and quality, had the same position for years but people would not listen :dunno:
What is it you have that some others don't

What is it you have that some others don't

My office is only 6 minutes away from theirs and if they don't answer, I will just have to go around :lol:

Seriously, I have always found them to be very decent and respectful even when I get a bit excited about an issue but I agree that lately, they took their eye of the ball and they have lost some people that made a difference (KM for example, I would employ her tomorrow :)).

@ Giles; Its not that difficult to make a lot of these people happy, the cost is minimal comparing with a tarnished reputation, especially for the FOB that you are trying to grow. You would also sleep better at night ......... I promise :)

I have no issues in terms of communications, Giles, KM & LB have always been exceptionally good in returning emails and attempting to resolve issues. Also in Dubai, K & M have been very good, so I have no complaints in this regard. My complaints were and still are about delivery and quality, had the same position for years but people would not listen :dunno:

I 100% agree with this. The problem is with SG not SP. Only now that SP have taken a back seat will people appreciate what they done. We should be demanding that SG allow and pay SP to continue as before. You might not like what they told you but don't shoot the messenger...and they always answered your questions. Perhaps we should realize this and move on.
SG - reinstate SP as your communications people and pay them too!!!

What is it you have that some others don't

Haven't you seen his picture? :runaway:

Haven't you seen his picture? :runaway:

Yes, there is that as well :lol: I am bigger than all of them put together :banana:

I 100% agree with this. The problem is with SG not SP. Only now that SP have taken a back seat will people appreciate what they done. We should be demanding that SG allow and pay SP to continue as before. You might not like what they told you but don't shoot the messenger...and they always answered your questions. Perhaps we should realize this and move on.
SG - reinstate SP as your communications people and pay them too!!!

To me, there is no difference between DS/DSLLC/SG/TSL/..... etc. :) Let us not go there

As the My Select website is no longer functional, how do we get payment receipts or aknowledgment of payments made now? Which email address do we send swift copies of transfers to etc.? We should not have to chase these!

^^
Well, sounds like he shouldn't have a problem paying back any refunds then if he's doing so well!
As we speak they have already changed some of the phrases in the original article... nice to know that when they want to act fast they can.

As the My Select website is no longer functional, how do we get payment receipts or aknowledgment of payments made now? Which email address do we send swift copies of transfers to etc.? We should not have to chase these!

Hi Dubai Steve

Try this email ccdxbpayments@select-group.ae

I am not sure if and when we will get a reply from these inefficient people, but this is the email I got from them today, and lets see if I get a reply in a week (I am being optimistic).

Try this one and please post a reply if you get one.

I will post a reply here as well if I get a reply

Hi Dubai Steve

Try this email ccdxbpayments@select-group.ae

I am not sure if and when we will get a reply from these inefficient people, but this is the email I got from them today, and lets see if I get a reply in a week (I am being optimistic).

Try this one and please post a reply if you get one.

I will post a reply here as well if I get a reply

Do you need a reply? If you have paid by a bank or a broker transfer into an escrow account, what is the issue? You have a receipt from the bank, I always forward a copy to my account manager on the day of transfer :dunno:

Hi, yes, I have a reciept from the Broker, Moneycorp is what I use, however, the thing is that in the past I used to get an official reciept from Select as well to acknowledge that they have recieved the funds. Since then they havent sent anything at all. Its not a big issue, its just that in the future if they turn nasty and state that they havent recieved any money from me, I can turn around and show them their own reciept.

Its not nice to pay over hundred thousand dirhams installment and they cannot even bother to send us an acknowledgement or reciept for it. Also, I called them this morning and guess what, their system is not even updated that they got any money from me. Its not a pair of jeans that i am buying, its over a million dirham property.

Do you need a reply? If you have paid by a bank or a broker transfer into an escrow account, what is the issue? You have a receipt from the bank, I always forward a copy to my account manager on the day of transfer :dunno:
Me too. I always keep a copy and send them one. What is the fuss? People are finding fault for no reason. Chill.

Nearly level with the top floor of Emirates Crown.

http://i43.tinypic.com/16a8p48.jpg

I've just rung the SP office and the police answered...they told me that all the staff have disappeared and from the looks of things they were all abducted by aliens....c'mon guys, give em a break will ya. They are probably not sending any receipts out for June payments because they are all too busy on the phone answering daft questions caused by all the conspiracy theories. Cause a fuss if you really want to and it helps you sleep at night, just stop posting things on here that are scaring the crap outta people. Can't we all just look forward to seeing the daily construction updates (of which I must say a very big thankyou to everyone who puts in the time to do this) and try to have a discussion about something positive. Not a single week goes by that SP don't get in touch and have a chat about the progress. Just look at what a great building we've all got...dare you to start talking about paint colours and curtains instead!!!!!

I've just rung the SP office and the police answered...they told me that all the staff have disappeared and from the looks of things they were all abducted by aliens....c'mon guys, give em a break will ya. They are probably not sending any receipts out for June payments because they are all too busy on the phone answering daft questions caused by all the conspiracy theories. Cause a fuss if you really want to and it helps you sleep at night, just stop posting things on here that are scaring the crap outta people. Can't we all just look forward to seeing the daily construction updates (of which I must say a very big thankyou to everyone who puts in the time to do this) and try to have a discussion about something positive. Not a single week goes by that SP don't get in touch and have a chat about the progress. Just look at what a great building we've all got...dare you to start talking about paint colours and curtains instead!!!!!

Farrow and Ball all the way, and do you think black velvet full length or blinds, don't want the sun to discolour the plush thick luxurious drapes ?? I simply cannot make up my mind this afternoon !!

The problem is that SP have started well by marketing themselves as a customer oriented outfit. When the going was good and they could employ many people to do that then fine but probably have half the staff now and double the amount of work.

This is not an excuse but as someone who runs a business that have laid people off, I sympathise as you can't always do everything you like to.

SP are positioning themselves against any possible law suites in UK by detaching themselves from SG in Dubai and claiming to be just an agent with no assets. Laws in Dubai are a lot more complicated and undefined.

Nearly level with the top floor of Emirates Crown.

http://i43.tinypic.com/16a8p48.jpg

Cheers for the photo M8.

That's nearly 2 floors higher since 5th June (I think?). A great build rate.

PS: There is nothing wrong with Giles and Co at SP. They have always been very professional with me any way and are having to reorg to meet the big changes in the property markets over here.

I think we are facing a cultural gap though now, if SP is divorcing itself from the project and customer facing activities. In particular for UK people, who have been used to having demands acted upon, dealing with Dubai culture is foreign to us and things are not done that way over there. You have to build trust and relationships with them I have found, as they expect nothing, give nothing otherwise. Let's face it, they do not have the same financial motivations that we have in the UK. They are "well looked after", where as we have to "earn and work" our rights to live well. Within the working environment, this forms a different attitude and ways of doing business with people.

Paul Brady is probably our best route to getting things done over there, as he appears to be at least putting effort into bridging the gap.

Just my 2 pence worth :cheers:

The Torch

SP are positioning themselves against any possible law suites in UK by detaching themselves from SG in Dubai and claiming to be just an agent with no assets. Laws in Dubai are a lot more complicated and undefined.

I agree - hence the swift rebuttal of the Real Business interview claiming that SP/Mark Stott has £1.5bn or whatever the figure was worth of developments in Dubai. It's clear that Select Property is a different entity than Select Group and the SPVs the latter set up for each project. While some people have claimed they have evidence that Mark has a financial interest in the early projects such as The Torch, excepting a few pieces of press coverage (which can easily be inaccurate), so far they've chosen not to put anything in the public domain, so we should assume there's no truth to it.

Do you need a reply? If you have paid by a bank or a broker transfer into an escrow account, what is the issue? You have a receipt from the bank, I always forward a copy to my account manager on the day of transfer :dunno:

There are no account managers at Select anymore. Check the MySelect website, only a member service contact and a sales contact, and both do not reply. What about LPP payments for the next 10 years, will the MySelect payment history and management system be shut down? Will we get annual statements at least like any other mortgage style products? Where can I find the contact details for the admin department of the Torch to get these answers?

LOL @ Steve, ur getting well paranoid in ur old age mate! Seriously, take a breather and calm down. I sometimes remember it would be months before the system on MySelect got updated and at other times, just a matter of days after payment.

I hope this thing tops out by end of the year and that you all move in sometime in 2011, and that many of you dont go for the refund option, since MST is not looking likely, you'll all have great views and even the old sea-facing ones (that i used to have) will get lovely views of PJ and in particular the Atlantis, so relax, and enjoy.

Now if only Select would give me a job! :D Its so boring at home, day trading all day long!

Sorry, I think I have scoobu flu..

http://i42.tinypic.com/ws2vt1.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/6svyiu.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/slsphz.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/xeh2fr.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/fo2dqb.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2rruh6b.jpg

More videos and photos to follow soon:cheers:

Dubai Marina June5th 09 Video (http://tinypic.com/r/102l028/5)



Dubai Marina June5th 09 Video#2 (http://tinypic.com/r/4qm04z/5)

http://i43.tinypic.com/xeh2fr.jpg

^^ Looks like even the 03 aspect will be able to see the sea/palm/Atlantis if you press your nose against the window!

12/June/2009

The Torch

http://i41.tinypic.com/e7gk9j.jpg

12/June/2009

The Torch

http://i43.tinypic.com/1zv7uv4.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/zxt9wm.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2a5ljqw.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/1twkjp.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/210xcow.jpg

Reading the comments on these forums over the past couple of days, it appears to us that many customers are confused about Select Property’s role in a number of projects. We have decided to write openly here to address some of the questions that have been raised.

The Torch, The Point, Bay Central, and Botanica, are all developed by Select Group, which is separate from Select Property both in terms of ownership and management.

Select Property in the UK was the exclusive agent for these developments, and our service until a few months ago included sales, customer service and payment collection.

4 years ago, we designed our business to deliver these services to our clients with a desire to set ourselves apart from other Dubai property agents. We set up a number of ways to communicate with our customers and assist them with their purchase. These included:


Regular construction updates
Industry-leading market research
Myselect portal with construction photos and payment receipts
Account managers for each customer
Preferential rates for currency exchange
A furniture pack solution


We always endeavour to listen to customer feedback and understand that some customers found this service more useful than others. We do however hope that despite some shortcomings, we managed to keep our clients informed about the market and up to date with the progress of their investment.

It is worth noting that our income as a business, like this of other property agents, has always derived from sales commissions.

As some of the projects we sold in Dubai Marina are now nearing completion, Select Group (the developer) has asked that they handle all client communications directly. This is to ensure that issues can be resolved directly with the team in Dubai which is in control of the projects in which you have invested.

Select Group has asked us to communicate to clients and provide them with the e-mail addresses for their after sales team, which we have done with our construction updates. If any customer is unclear about these, our after sales team will be happy to give the details again.

We would like to re-iterate that despite the confusion of some members of these forums, Select Group is a separate company to us – we are happy to share the details of our ownership and company structure if you want to visit us in our Wilmslow office.

Despite handing over the after sales service back to the developer, and as we believe that this is of value to our clients, we are continuing to issue construction updates for the projects we have sold, the next of which is due shortly. We will also continue to pick up the phone to our customers and assist them in any way we can.

We hope this clarifies our position, but if you need any more information please give us a call on 0161 488 3560 and ask to speak to Russell Hayes, our After Sales Manager.

I agree - hence the swift rebuttal of the Real Business interview claiming that SP/Mark Stott has £1.5bn or whatever the figure was worth of developments in Dubai. It's clear that Select Property is a different entity than Select Group and the SPVs the latter set up for each project. While some people have claimed they have evidence that Mark has a financial interest in the early projects such as The Torch, excepting a few pieces of press coverage (which can easily be inaccurate), so far they've chosen not to put anything in the public domain, so we should assume there's no truth to it.

You are going to hand your units back anyway (you keep telling us that) so it does not really matter, unless you have changed your mind like you did with your psot :dunno:

12/June/2009

The Torch

http://i41.tinypic.com/2ebfmrt.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2nlg3te.jpg

Reading the comments on these forums over the past couple of days, it appears to us that many customers are confused about Select Property’s role in a number of projects. We have decided to write openly here to address some of the questions that have been raised.

The Torch, The Point, Bay Central, and Botanica, are all developed by Select Group, which is separate from Select Property both in terms of ownership and management.

Select Property in the UK was the exclusive agent for these developments, and our service until a few months ago included sales, customer service and payment collection.

4 years ago, we designed our business to deliver these services to our clients with a desire to set ourselves apart from other Dubai property agents. We set up a number of ways to communicate with our customers and assist them with their purchase. These included:


Regular construction updates
Industry-leading market research
Myselect portal with construction photos and payment receipts
Account managers for each customer
Preferential rates for currency exchange
A furniture pack solution


We always endeavour to listen to customer feedback and understand that some customers found this service more useful than others. We do however hope that despite some shortcomings, we managed to keep our clients informed about the market and up to date with the progress of their investment.

It is worth noting that our income as a business, like this of other property agents, has always derived from sales commissions.

As some of the projects we sold in Dubai Marina are now nearing completion, Select Group (the developer) has asked that they handle all client communications directly. This is to ensure that issues can be resolved directly with the team in Dubai which is in control of the projects in which you have invested.

Select Group has asked us to communicate to clients and provide them with the e-mail addresses for their after sales team, which we have done with our construction updates. If any customer is unclear about these, our after sales team will be happy to give the details again.

We would like to re-iterate that despite the confusion of some members of these forums, Select Group is a separate company to us – we are happy to share the details of our ownership and company structure if you want to visit us in our Wilmslow office.

Despite handing over the after sales service back to the developer, and as we believe that this is of value to our clients, we are continuing to issue construction updates for the projects we have sold, the next of which is due shortly. We will also continue to pick up the phone to our customers and assist them in any way we can.

We hope this clarifies our position, but if you need any more information please give us a call on 0161 488 3560 and ask to speak to Russell Hayes, our After Sales Manager.

Thank you for the clarification. I checked back in the April email update and had missed reading the following short statement in the PDF attachment.

Please note that in response to demand from buyers the
developer of The Torch, Select Group, has created its own
customer care team to handle all enquiries relating to matters
such as payments, title registration, inspection and handover.
Please contact the Dubai customer care team directly by email at
ccdxb@select-group.ae or by fax on 00971 4 368 3344 with any
questions or requests which are not covered by our routine
communication going forward. We will continue to stay close to
this development up until completion and look forward to
bringing you ongoing project updates every other month.

I would however had thought that this important contact change should have been sent out as a letter.

I have now sent an email to the above address ccdxb@select-group.ae with my SWIFT copy requesting payment receipt acknowledgement and also asking for information on whether the on line payment system will be maintained in future by themselves or by Select Property UK sales agents. This is still not clear to me.

I will keep you all posted if Select Group Dubai ever reply to my receipt request.

So the 66th floor is finally here, not sure how the final floor numbering will go but at this time I can see what might actually be my apartment. I remember I was stood on the broad walk around four years ago looking at a cloud and trying to imagine what my view might be?? anyway although I don't think I will be moving in for a while its still nice to see something in real life.. after my last blast I did get some help from SP to find my payments (thanks) but was made to clearly understand its all with SD in Dubai now, so hence I'm really not confident that this is going to work very well based on the current lack of response from them to date.. B

Now if only Select would give me a job! :D Its so boring at home, day trading all day long!


:rofl:

To Select

Thanks for the explanation above. I have to say that I was always very impressed with the service you provided and found it professional and efficient. I also understand that with the current financial downturn you have had to make cuts/adapt your business etc. However, you must also be able to understand how frustrating it is for investors when we buy our apartment from you, deal with you for 3 years or so, and then suddenly (when we have important issues we need dealt with), we are told "nothing to do with us". It wouldn't be so bad if we got a good service from Dubai, but we have no phone number for them, only a fax and e-mail, and it is very difficult to get a reply. I asked a simple but important question (that needs a short reply) over a week ago now and haven't had a reply.

I would have thought that it is in your interests to make sure that investors get good customer service from Dubai, because although you say you are two completely separate companies and nothing to do with each other, you are both called Select and in most people's minds are closely related/the same company. Therefore, them providing such a poor service and treating investors with disrepect will surely have a negative impact on your company's reputation for future business.

Can someone explain why there is no telephone number for the developer of the Torch?

http://i44.tinypic.com/1ionch.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/b877n5.jpg

HT You in Dubai ?

Can someone explain why there is no telephone number for the developer of the Torch?

Telephone lines toooo expensive in current economic times !

Can someone explain why there is no telephone number for the developer of the Torch?

^^Part of Select Group, surely number will be same?

http://select-group.ae/contactUs.html


http://select-group.ae/images/map_large.jpg

Reading the comments on these forums over the past couple of days, it appears to us that many customers are confused about Select Property’s role in a number of projects. We have decided to write openly here to address some of the questions that have been raised.

The Torch, The Point, Bay Central, and Botanica, are all developed by Select Group, which is separate from Select Property both in terms of ownership and management.

Select Property in the UK was the exclusive agent for these developments, and our service until a few months ago included sales, customer service and payment collection.

4 years ago, we designed our business to deliver these services to our clients with a desire to set ourselves apart from other Dubai property agents. We set up a number of ways to communicate with our customers and assist them with their purchase. These included:


Regular construction updates
Industry-leading market research
Myselect portal with construction photos and payment receipts
Account managers for each customer
Preferential rates for currency exchange
A furniture pack solution


We always endeavour to listen to customer feedback and understand that some customers found this service more useful than others. We do however hope that despite some shortcomings, we managed to keep our clients informed about the market and up to date with the progress of their investment.

It is worth noting that our income as a business, like this of other property agents, has always derived from sales commissions.

As some of the projects we sold in Dubai Marina are now nearing completion, Select Group (the developer) has asked that they handle all client communications directly. This is to ensure that issues can be resolved directly with the team in Dubai which is in control of the projects in which you have invested.

Select Group has asked us to communicate to clients and provide them with the e-mail addresses for their after sales team, which we have done with our construction updates. If any customer is unclear about these, our after sales team will be happy to give the details again.

We would like to re-iterate that despite the confusion of some members of these forums, Select Group is a separate company to us – we are happy to share the details of our ownership and company structure if you want to visit us in our Wilmslow office.

Despite handing over the after sales service back to the developer, and as we believe that this is of value to our clients, we are continuing to issue construction updates for the projects we have sold, the next of which is due shortly. We will also continue to pick up the phone to our customers and assist them in any way we can.

We hope this clarifies our position, but if you need any more information please give us a call on 0161 488 3560 and ask to speak to Russell Hayes, our After Sales Manager.

Hey there anonymous cowboy, does your mamma call you select_property? or did she give you a real name

[QUOTE=Anjam;38162186]^^Part of Select Group, surely number will be same?

http://select-group.ae/contactUs.html


Shouldn't you be contacting 'the seller' Torch Select Ltd., with whom you have a contract. Have they given authority for you to deal with some other 'entity'? I don't know about this 'assertion' business, where other companies e.g. Dubai Select tell you who you should be dealing with.

Get it direct from the horses mouth, Torch Select Ltd.!

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/SjKSjhFzejI/AAAAAAAADL8/S04giArD8R4/s800/IMG_2020%20Panorama.jpg

I've just rung the SP office and the police answered...they told me that all the staff have disappeared and from the looks of things they were all abducted by aliens....c'mon guys, give em a break will ya. They are probably not sending any receipts out for June payments because they are all too busy on the phone answering daft questions caused by all the conspiracy theories. Cause a fuss if you really want to and it helps you sleep at night, just stop posting things on here that are scaring the crap outta people. Can't we all just look forward to seeing the daily construction updates (of which I must say a very big thankyou to everyone who puts in the time to do this) and try to have a discussion about something positive. Not a single week goes by that SP don't get in touch and have a chat about the progress. Just look at what a great building we've all got...dare you to start talking about paint colours and curtains instead!!!!!

Well it looks like Select in the U.K. are going down, time to sue their asses now for fraud and false advertising!

Has anyone managed to establish the common ownership with Dubai? to demonstrate that there are particular individuals who have ownership interests in jebel ali free zone offshore companies like torch select ltd. and select in the u.k.?

HT You in Dubai ?

Yas Anjam, here for a couple of weeks. Dinner with rahail next week.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cen7v5.jpg

Structure almost topped out. Just need to build one more residential floor and the two mechanical ones above that.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8249/nmlson.jpg

Must be Xmas tomorrow :applause::applause:



Dubai Marina 5th June 09 #3 (http://tinypic.com/r/2d9v4ub/5)

Must be Xmas tomorrow :applause::applause:



Dubai Marina 5th June 09 #3 (http://tinypic.com/r/2d9v4ub/5)

that view looks familiar - taken from Alan's balcony? :okay:

that view looks familiar - taken from Alan's balcony? :okay:

Two floors above :)
I was going to buy it but found a better deal :cheers:

Nice height for this size of a Marina, any higher and you loose the effect. When I went to the top of the Torch, the Marina looked like a small swimming pool :lol:

Thanks malec, high floors will have guaranteed awsome views over the top of Emirates Crown and harbour Hotel regardless of what happens to MST.

These pics were all taken from the sea so you can see that most sea facing units above floor 20 ish will be able to view the sea from most of the windows.

What constitutes a sea view is obviously subjective, but balconies on the corner will have great views i reckon. The space between Princes and Le Reve is decievingly wide

http://i42.tinypic.com/2vcz2xh.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/wmlbvk.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/309suo5.jpg

Hey there anonymous cowboy, does your mamma call you select_property? or did she give you a real name

Errrm... Is that not a name this guy has at the bottom?

Yas Anjam, here for a couple of weeks. Dinner with rahail next week.

Good luck with that, watch out for the part when he tells lies, its every time he moves his lips :lol:

That'll suit me HT we are on La Reve corner hope fully drop round for a coffee to see your view of INFINITY for summer 2010 ??

Who's paying for Dinner you or Raihill ? If it's him go to Gary Rhodes at GH !!

Can someone explain why there is no telephone number for the developer of the Torch?

Because they don't want to speak to you>>

I'M RATHER CONFUSED!!... SP say they do not own any projects but the quote from the article that was posted on 10/6/09, Mart Stott quotes the following:

"Three years later, while other players in the market were exercising caution, Stott’s appetite for risk forced him to make the high-stakes acquisition of Aquitania that could have sunk the firm without a trace – instead, it made Select Property one of the largest players on the Dubai investment property market. "

A quick response back from SP saying they do not own any projects in Dubai and are just 'selling agents' seems to prove that they are not completely telling the truth!.. COMPLETE LIARS. Wouldn't trust them as far as I could I throw them!

Also payment was due on Aquitania by 1st June 2009. Have not received a default notice. Has anyone else receive default notices for this or any other SP projects from Dubai Select who are supposed to be the sole owners?

Hi Mick

I'll try and clear up the confusion. Here's a quote for a recent SP post which is in fact correct:

" The Torch, The Point, Bay Central, and Botanica, are all developed by Select Group, which is separate from Select Property both in terms of ownership and management. "

The other developments being West Avenue in the Marina and Pacific in RAK are being developed jointly by Select Group and Select Property. So SP is a developer with these projects and may also be a joint developer with SG in Aquatainia, though I'm not 100% sure on this one.

Select Group is owned by Rahail Aslam and Select Property by Mark Stott who has majority share plus Giles Beswick and some other guy I can't quite remember it might Mark Northwood who I think have around 10% shareholding of SP each.

Hi.. Select Group International Limited and Select Property Group Limited are both registered with Companies House UK register of Limited Companies.

Both companies are strangely registered at the same UK address!! Interesting uh? considering they are trying to imply that they have nothing to do with each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2JEJQwC6Ak&feature=channel_page

Received my payment receipt today from ccdxbpayments@select-group.ae after sending my SWIFT copy and requesting a receipt.

Was also told from Select Property (UK):

"With the developers now dealing with all payment and after sale queries, I very much doubt My Select will be kept up to date with payment history, however Select Property will continue to send out bi-monthly construction updates"

and from Select Group (Dubai):

In regards of the notifications Select Group has no similar to Select Property’s payment system and therefore it is advisable to follow the instalments due as per your SPA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2JEJQwC6Ak&feature=channel_page

A great example of miss selling, which is illegal in the UK. I think the guy who did the commentary thought he was to describe Infinity tower.

Anyway, in tradition to Select, the thing they sold looks nothing like the thing they are building. Same goes for The Point so be prepared BC owners.

Some of my favourite sales lies;

"already billed as THE landmark development"
"unmatched excellence"
"premier site on the waters edge"
"unrivalled aspects towards the mouth of the marina"
"seconds from Jumeirah beach" (not even by taxi:lol:)

I think there is enough there to sue Select for any loss if you have to sell and don't recover all your investment.

http://i39.tinypic.com/24pc778.jpg

15/June/2009

Dubai Marina and JLT from The Torch

one of the best view in Dubai from here:)

http://i40.tinypic.com/2pjk5.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/spu6fc.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/jgse20.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/fn5k3t.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/nxkun4.jpg

15/June/2009

View from the 7th floor

http://i40.tinypic.com/339twr9.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2usen9f.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/21j7llc.jpg

Thank you for the clarification. I checked back in the April email update and had missed reading the following short statement in the PDF attachment.



I would however had thought that this important contact change should have been sent out as a letter.

I have now sent an email to the above address ccdxb@select-group.ae with my SWIFT copy requesting payment receipt acknowledgement and also asking for information on whether the on line payment system will be maintained in future by themselves or by Select Property UK sales agents. This is still not clear to me.

I will keep you all posted if Select Group Dubai ever reply to my receipt request.


I have just done the same with the receipt of funds transfer attached. Hopefully I will get a receipt this time as nothng was forthcoming when I sent fax or previous emails.

//Kevin

Fantastic shots imre. What style appt did you take the high level pics from?

Imre, many thanks - those are seriously impressive shots.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell I'm selling after seeing those views (even if they will only be there for a few years)

^^ How will they dissapear in a few years? Even if the ones in front start building now, you might have more time to enjoy the view ... but as we all know nothing will happen in that plot for a long time.

Oh Dear.............the Torch has lost its banner from the top, it must have been the high winds yesterday.

Alan

Fantastic shots imre. What style appt did you take the high level pics from?

thanks, Marina facing 3 bedrooms from the 66th and the 67th floors.

Imre, many thanks - those are seriously impressive shots.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell I'm selling after seeing those views (even if they will only be there for a few years)

I would wait the handover , before I wouldnt sell anything if I have an apartment there.

3 more pics

15/June/2009

Dubai Marina from The Torch

http://i43.tinypic.com/153o41e.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2i71v2h.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/20s7s6h.jpg

Palm view

http://i43.tinypic.com/301dgfs.jpg

Dubai Marina from The Torch, 15/June/2009

short video , strong wind was yesterday thats why I was fast:)

jeGbFI436xQ

I would wait the handover , before I wouldnt sell anything if I have an apartment there.

^^
Imre, would you make the same recommendation if you had a City view apartment? I've got quite a high up city view (should be able to see the Palm and the sea from the corner balcony).

Great photos Imre:applause::applause:
could you please tell me if the photos from the 7th floor were taken from a 01,02 or a corner aspect:cheers:

^^
Imre, would you make the same recommendation if you had a City view apartment? I've got quite a high up city view (should be able to see the Palm and the sea from the corner balcony).

you mean thet corner what is close to the Marina Heights and Mag 218?

from higher floor you will have a good view of the Emirates Golf Club .

Great photos Imre:applause::applause:
could you please tell me if the photos from the 7th floor were taken from a 01,02 or a corner aspect:cheers:

thanks, I dont know the unit numbers, 1 corner apartment photo (with city view) and 2 sea view photo ( next to the corner apartment)

Wonderful work Imre, you really are helping many people stick in there at present with the shots you post etc. Am I correct in thinking you took the latest from the 66th floor. All the best to you.:):D

Update from Select Property:

Since last months update The Torch has progressed 4 floors, now
reaching completion of the 66th floor slab and casting of the
69th core wall.

Installation of the internal partitions up to the 51st floor and 1st
fix Mechanical Electrical Plumbing woks is progressing on level
57. Activity is near completion on the tile works, plastering and
paint on the 53rd floor, whilst lift installation is ongoing.

Light fittings and sanitary ware have been approved with a
supplier appointed. Electrical goods have also been appointed
with materials in storage and white goods supply & installation
have been awarded.

Approximately 42% of the external aluminium cladding and
balconies are now complete. Aluminium works continues on the
2nd floor plate (from level 28 up to 56).

@Imre . The corner golf course facing appartment was sold as a marina view. Could you see much of the marina?

Thanks

Dubai Marina from The Torch, 15/June/2009

short video , strong wind was yesterday thats why I was fast:)

jeGbFI436xQ

^^ Great views and all that but I think that would be too high for me to live day in day out. Great for holidays but any longer than that and it would be too detached from the Marina for my liking. All IMHO obviously.

@Imre . The corner golf course facing appartment was sold as a marina view. Could you see much of the marina?

Thanks

^^ Not fron the Balcony but you will see it from the living room and one of the bedrooms until something gets built in the next plot.

^^ Great views and all that but I think that would be too high for me to live day in day out. Great for holidays but any longer than that and it would be too detached from the Marina for my liking. All IMHO obviously.

I think I have another 9 floors or so until I reach my level, and Imre's shot looking down the side of Emirates Crown has made me think too... Well, you only every live once hey !! :banana:

you mean thet corner what is close to the Marina Heights and Mag 218?

from higher floor you will have a good view of the Emirates Golf Club .

I'm not sure if it's close to Marina Heights. It's an 01 apartment. It's not the sea facing side, but the side that faces the City, ie the opposite side from the direct Marina view. I think that from our corner balcony we can see the sea and the Palm.

I'm not sure if it's close to Marina Heights. It's an 01 apartment. It's not the sea facing side, but the side that faces the City, ie the opposite side from the direct Marina view. I think that from our corner balcony we can see the sea and the Palm.


I have a 01 as well & looking at the view I think that was where Imre took his Photos & if you stand on your balcony you should be able to see Atlantis on the Palm:banana:

Samantha,I think Imre's photos from the corner plot are from unit 703.partial sea view are from unit 702 which I think was the apartment Morris sold.
I also have an 01 unit so there will he partial sea views in my opinion.
I think beautiful and certainly great views all round whatever unit you have.
A special thank you to Imre once again who should be on the next Queens birthday honours list and be crowned "Sir Imre Solt"