#UNDER C: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m

[arfie]

^^

Is it me getting impatient, or has work slowed up over the last couple of weeks. It doesn't seem to be going at the same pace as last month and outside cladding seems to have ground to a halt.

Any thoughts out there?

The Torch

They are still doing at least a floor a week. The cladding and internal work is coming along pretty nicely as well. Cladding infact doesnt take too long, what they are doing is once the internal plastering is done then they end up doing the cladding. I know we give the developer alot of stick but if we look at the progress made over the last 15 months or so on this development its pretty remarkable.

[Imre]

The Torch from the Goldcrest jacuzzi :)

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[thetorch]

They are still doing at least a floor a week. The cladding and internal work is coming along pretty nicely as well. Cladding infact doesnt take too long, what they are doing is once the internal plastering is done then they end up doing the cladding. I know we give the developer alot of stick but if we look at the progress made over the last 15 months or so on this development its pretty remarkable.

I guess you're right Arfie. Overall, I'm very pleased with progress over the last 3 months.

Question: If a developer were to go bust towards the latter stages of development, and you had paid all but the last 10%, do you then technically own the property, all be it incomplete. Hence, if so, could the community of 7/8 completed apartments chip in to get the work finished by another developer?

Who would actually own the land that it is built on?

OR .....

Do you lose the lot!

Thanks in advance

The Torch

[agod]

Its gone very quiet on here, has those Mars Bars got stuck in your throat?

In the gulf News Today, P26 Select Group are pushing ahead with there RAK Development, piling begins today.

ALan

[SGrCRAP]

Its gone very quiet on here, has those Mars Bars got stuck in your throat?

In the gulf News Today, P26 Select Group are pushing ahead with there RAK Development, piling begins today.

ALan

This will liven things up!

Apparently the Oqood Interim Registration fee can be paid directly to the Lands Dep AFTER handover and it only costs 1000 AED not 3000 AED which SG are trying to bill us for PRIOR to handover.

So..... 3000-1000*180=360,000 AED Gross Profit for SG. Not bad for sending an SG lemming down to the Lands Dep and registering all the units as a job lot in a morning. That's a Porsche 911 for Mr Aslam for doing zip!

Don't pay it folks - save yourself some money and email SG to ask them what they are playing at.

[High Times]

^^

Thats old news I'm afraid.

SG are offering a service to clients to do the admin for you IF you want. They are simply sticking 2,000 AED on top of the bill as a service charge. To an investor who lives in the UK (most SG investors do) you cant get a flight to Dubai for £330 (2,000 AED) so i dont see the problem.

Yes it's a nice little earner for SG. Fair play to them, That's just good business. Offer a service, put on your margin, make a profit.

When you pay £50 for a meal you know that the raw produce only costs £10.

Lets keep it real.........

[Grubbman]

^^:rofl:

Sad but true, you guys crack me up sometimes.....

[buster007]

^^

Thats old news I'm afraid.

SG are offering a service to clients to do the admin for you IF you want. They are simply sticking 2,000 AED on top of the bill as a service charge. To an investor who lives in the UK (most SG investors do) you cant get a flight to Dubai for £330 (2,000 AED) so i dont see the problem.

Yes it's a nice little earner for SG. Fair play to them, That's just good business. Offer a service, put on your margin, make a profit.

When you pay £50 for a meal you know that the raw produce only costs £10.

Lets keep it real.........


I guess for SG, it is comforting to know some are cool with being ripped off.
For me, the message here is that this can be paid AFTER handover.
A simple to-do-list of "post-handover task" to the investor would be enough.

In my opinion the cost of a flight to Dubai is irrelevant here. At handover, most investors would prefer to be in Dubai to snag their apt, and can take care of such administrative/registration responsibilities at that time.

[MANUTD]

I guess for SG, it is comforting to know some are cool with being ripped off.
For me, the message here is that this can be paid AFTER handover.
A simple to-do-list of "post-handover task" to the investor would be enough.

In my opinion the cost of a flight to Dubai is irrelevant here. At handover, most investors would prefer to be in Dubai to snag their apt, and can take care of such administrative/registration responsibilities at that time.

Absolutely agree :cheers:

[High Times]

In my opinion the cost of a flight to Dubai is irrelevant here. At handover, most investors would prefer to be in Dubai to snag their apt, and can take care of such administrative/registration responsibilities at that time.

Fair enough buster.

I guess thats why we differ on this subject. I am happy to pay a proffesional/agent to do a menial task for me like snagg an appratment or sit in the Lands Dept for an hour and press some buttons.

My time is more valuable to me than what i would save in costs.

If i was a waiter on £5 an hour then it would make sense to cut the costs down and sacrifice my time instead.

Each to his own, i just dont think it's fair to suggest that SG is ripping people off by offering a service that some may find usefull.

[Samantha Baker]

Fair enough buster.

I guess thats why we differ on this subject. I am happy to pay a proffesional/agent to do a menial task for me like snagg an appratment or sit in the Lands Dept for an hour and press some buttons.

My time is more valuable to me than what i would save in costs.

If i was a waiter on £5 an hour then it would make sense to cut the costs down and sacrifice my time instead.

Each to his own, i just dont think it's fair to suggest that SG is ripping people off by offering a service that some may find usefull.

^^
I do agree with you HT that it's good to have the choice to pay for a service if you want it and if your time is more valuable. The problem is, I don't remember being given a choice. I can't remember exactly what it said as it was several months ago now, but we got a letter from Select saying that we HAD to register the apartment within a certain number of days and this is how much you need to send. We weren't told that it could be done after completion, and we weren't told that we could do it ourselves and that part of the cost was a fee for them doing it. It would have been nice if they told people exactly what the situation was and gave them a choice of how to do it. By the way, I still don't think my apartment is registered even though we paid months ago.

[Sid]

^^
I do agree with you HT that it's good to have the choice to pay for a service if you want it and if your time is more valuable. The problem is, I don't remember being given a choice. I can't remember exactly what it said as it was several months ago now, but we got a letter from Select saying that we HAD to register the apartment within a certain number of days and this is how much you need to send. We weren't told that it could be done after completion, and we weren't told that we could do it ourselves and that part of the cost was a fee for them doing it. It would have been nice if they told people exactly what the situation was and gave them a choice of how to do it. By the way, I still don't think my apartment is registered even though we paid months ago.

Reply from SG on 16/06/09 (I asked about registration fee and ESCROW):
____________
I understand your concern but I can provide you the Dubai Land Department Document which is proof that your apartment is registered with Dubai Land Department (attached).

For Dubai Islamic Bank I will provide you the bank statement for your apartment issued by the bank once their reconciliation will be complete.

I have seen that you have paid some funds before Escrow Account but after that we have transferred all funds to the Escrow Account with your apartment detail (other customers funds also) accordingly which is also requirement of Dubai Land Department.

I know much of our customers had invested their savings in our projects but as a neutral I assure you that your funds are in safe hand and soon you will receive your apartment. We are currently handing over our two projects while third one will be Torch project.

Much of all I can say that Dubai Land Department is currently observing not only our project but other developers as well deeply (Through difference laws and reports) to assure that all funds of customers are utilizing accordingly.

____________

[hawki]

^^

Thats old news I'm afraid.

SG are offering a service to clients to do the admin for you IF you want. They are simply sticking 2,000 AED on top of the bill as a service charge. To an investor who lives in the UK (most SG investors do) you cant get a flight to Dubai for £330 (2,000 AED) so i dont see the problem.

Yes it's a nice little earner for SG. Fair play to them, That's just good business. Offer a service, put on your margin, make a profit.

When you pay £50 for a meal you know that the raw produce only costs £10.

Lets keep it real.........
Thats all well and good but they did not say this was possible to pay yourself they took advantage of their position and should have explained that the fee was 1000 to register yourself , but we can do this for you for our additional fee of 2000. This is the principle of the matter

[Morrismarina]

"""

[Imre]

17/July/2009

The Torch

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[Imre]

podium facade test

http://i32.tinypic.com/1jtdex.jpg

[mackie1964]

http://i28.tinypic.com/2m6r8d5.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/rw83ux.jpg

[High Times]

Thanks for the pics Imre.

I beleive this floor 72 (66th residential) is the first of the 3 beds. :banana:

[hawki]

podium facade test


http://i32.tinypic.com/1jtdex.jpg


Can any one explain what these are for-the look like the kind of thing that youd see in car parks instead of windows am i right also thankyou IMre for your flash photography the building is looking good now on the outsuide just wish we could have better fixtures/fittings on the inside-- I wonder if select would leave appartment empty so we could fit a decent spec as I think this will be the key when it comes to rental!

[hawki]

IMRE where do you think this building fits into the marina on its design quality? Is the building impressive close up. I really like the infinity building but appts starting at about 2million AED are in a different league.

[jeffers]

Thanks for the pics Imre.

I beleive this floor 72 (66th residential) is the first of the 3 beds. :banana:

Yeah, 66 to 73... on the home run now !!!!!!!

[True Blue]

IMRE where do you think this building fits into the marina on its design quality? Is the building impressive close up. I really like the infinity building but appts starting at about 2million AED are in a different league.

The original renders of the Torch were very agressive and striking unfortunately the actual building is fairly ordinary IMO.

You are right, the architecture of Infinity is in a different league. When Infinity is finished everyones eyes will be drawn from the ordinary to the impressive architectural structures like Infinity and Ocean Heights.

Instead of hiring Hollywood stars to launch their projects Cayan's strategy was hire designers at the top of their game to design the buildings, followed by employing contractors eager to be recognised as the leaders in the region. The development then markets its self and there are no dissapointments regarding delivering expectations. Match that with a payment plan that keeps up with progress and who's complaining:dunno:

Torch developer has let everyone down with the toning down of the building.

[mages]

has anyone else been advised that their termination notice has not been received

[jeffers]

The original renders of the Torch were very agressive and striking unfortunately the actual building is fairly ordinary IMO.

You are right, the architecture of Infinity is in a different league. When Infinity is finished everyones eyes will be drawn from the ordinary to the impressive architectural structures like Infinity and Ocean Heights.

Instead of hiring Hollywood stars to launch their projects Cayan's strategy was hire designers at the top of their game to design the buildings, followed by employing contractors eager to be recognised as the leaders in the region. The development then markets its self and there are no dissapointments regarding delivering expectations. Match that with a payment plan that keeps up with progress and who's complaining:dunno:

Torch developer has let everyone down with the toning down of the building.


650 property purchasers stitched up by just one or two owners of a company that call themselves a property developer... and will anything be done about the let downs on every level, Fixtures and fittings, design, late delivery, contract and the developer not stiching to its obligations, compensation for late delivery, I know the list go on, but what will be done about all this, strength in numbers or all purchasers running scared of this company??

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ whats wrong with fixtures and fittings in the Torch? this spacious 1 bed apartment looks great to me for £95,000 given the location and facilities. :dunno:

02/July/2009

The Torch

I think there is no problem with the finishing, not luxury but a good average in Dubai , I wouldnt change anything there in the first couple years , If I have an apartment there.:)

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[Imre]

IMRE where do you think this building fits into the marina on its design quality? Is the building impressive close up. I really like the infinity building but appts starting at about 2million AED are in a different league.

nothing wrong with the design, the latest looks better than the first one, I think.

Anyway the design is not so important in Dubai Marina , just look the Marina Diamonds, JBR or some Emaar buildings, those are a design ?:)

Infinity is better design but who will buy it now, noone , because of the market.

[Bling08]

Hi,

First time on this Forum. My Husband and I own a 1 bed apartment bought in May 05.

Would love to keep hold of it, but due to delays and our personal circumstances we are considering giving in our Notice of Termination.

We have tried to get info on how to go about doing this, but they have been very reluctant to give us any answers.

Would really appreciate some advice on how to go about writing the termination of notice. Would especially like to speak with Mistermark, as he has already made us aware that he has done this.

We asked how many days left we have to give in our Notice and they advised 20 business days from 30th June. Is this right? I work this out to be Tuesday 28th July - so not long.

We also asked that if they weren't going to refund all of our money we put in so far, could we retract our termination. They would not answer.

Mistermark, I know you mentioned that you put in a line in your termination notice about retracting your notice if you were not satisfied in their refund offer.

Please help!!!!!!

Also want to take this opportunity to say thank you for all the posts on this forum and to those who have provided updates and photos.

[True Blue]

nothing wrong with the design, the latest looks better than the first one, I think.

Anyway the design is not so important in Dubai Marina , just look the Marina Diamonds, JBR or some Emaar buildings, those are a design ?:)

Infinity is better design but who will buy it now, noone , because of the market.

Design not important!!:eek:

Imre, when you had your VIP tour did they take you to a darkened room where you may have heard these words;

"look into my eyes, not around the eyes, into my eyes":lol:

[arfie]

The original renders of the Torch were very agressive and striking unfortunately the actual building is fairly ordinary IMO.

You are right, the architecture of Infinity is in a different league. When Infinity is finished everyones eyes will be drawn from the ordinary to the impressive architectural structures like Infinity and Ocean Heights.

Instead of hiring Hollywood stars to launch their projects Cayan's strategy was hire designers at the top of their game to design the buildings, followed by employing contractors eager to be recognised as the leaders in the region. The development then markets its self and there are no dissapointments regarding delivering expectations. Match that with a payment plan that keeps up with progress and who's complaining:dunno:

Torch developer has let everyone down with the toning down of the building.

Sorry TB your exagerating as usual. The Torch building actually looks pretty good at close up. Alot of the developers have let customers down. In general the Torch interior and overall look of the building is pretty good.

[DxbPC]

Sorry TB your exagerating as usual. The Torch building actually looks pretty good at close up. Alot of the developers have let customers down. In general the Torch interior and overall look of the building is pretty good.
i AGREE. The building looks good and should be quite spectacular when finished. Not like TB to knock SG projects is it!? I have a sneaky suspision he may like Cayan projects...Shame because he Could be a good contributor to all threads if he could get over whatever it is the SG did to upset him!
Who knows?

[jeffers]

[QUOTE=Dubai_Steve;39918472]^^ whats wrong with fixtures and fittings in the Torch? this spacious 1 bed apartment looks great to me for £95,000 given the location and facilities. :dunno:

Agree for a 1 bed at 95k, a lot of this is acceptable and good, but for a 350k 3 bed unit, does it really cut the mustard after what we have heard about the quality from point handover victims.. I guess we need to wait and see and hope for better finishing as this is what can make the difference, open conversation again next year.

[Saggy_Toad]

While we are on the subject of money...has anyone got any ideas as to what we can expect as an approx value per sq ft on completion? I've got friends in Dubai that are giving me very inconsistent valuations. Even looking at sites selling property in the Marina, the prices go literally from the sublime to the ridiculous!

[MANUTD]

Design not important!!:eek:

Imre, when you had your VIP tour did they take you to a darkened room where you may have heard these words;

"look into my eyes, not around the eyes, into my eyes":lol:


:lol:No they didn't but IMRE's pictures were GOOD - it is ordinary unfortunatel

[Mistermark]

While we are on the subject of money...has anyone got any ideas as to what we can expect as an approx value per sq ft on completion? I've got friends in Dubai that are giving me very inconsistent valuations. Even looking at sites selling property in the Marina, the prices go literally from the sublime to the ridiculous!

Interesting question. Depends if you're buying or selling. If you're buying, agents will tell you the market has passed the bottom and you're looking at AED 1200/sq ft for anything halfway decent in the Marina. If you're selling, well, rents are still falling, it's now summer, then it'll be Ramadan, and there are still distressed sales (as opposed to asking prices) at 700-800/sq ft on mid-range projects.

[MANUTD]

i AGREE. The building looks good and should be quite spectacular when finished. Not like TB to knock SG projects is it!? I have a sneaky suspision he may like Cayan projects...Shame because he good be a good contributor to all threads if he could get over whatever it is the SG did to upset him!
Who knows?

DxbPC - as you you know I have stuff in TP and that has severely dented my faith in SG and is not finished with yet by a LONG way
- TT is better but not great
- I hope they can rectify BEFORE handover here
I seriously worry for BC Also hope i'm wrong

It appears to me that the developer and NOT the selling agents (SP) are responsible for short changing investors up to now - SG need to wake up and smell the coffee - they can turn this negativity around and it won't cost that much !!

[Yousuf27]

i AGREE. The building looks good and should be quite spectacular when finished. Not like TB to knock SG projects is it!? I have a sneaky suspision he may like Cayan projects...Shame because he good be a good contributor to all threads if he could get over whatever it is the SG did to upset him!
Who knows?

Knocked back back for a Project Manager job on more than one SG project! I thought it was common knowledge.

[High Times]

Knocked back back for a Project Manager job on more than one SG project! I thought it was common knowledge.

Furthermore he was daft enough to buy a project built next to a sewage and water desalination plant, as well as a powerplant.

If that wasn't bad enough after the project completed someone came along and built a road bridge between his appartment block and the Marina canal, increasing traffic flow, noise, and more pullution in the area.

I think that's more than enough to be pissed off about dont you.

He seems to know his stuff about construction though, and I agree with him that Arabtec is probably the best builder in town and DCE are crap in comparison.

His continued one sided bashing of SG just makes him look petty and agrieved, and reduces his credibility on this forum as what I would call "an expert".

I quite like the banter though............:)

[Gorilla]

TB has some valid points but his messages are lost in his bitterness about Select. Don't give him a hard time he just needs to mature a bit. This is not a competetion about my builder is better than yours! :)

[DxbPC]

DxbPC - as you you know I have stuff in TP and that has severely dented my faith in SG and is not finished with yet by a LONG way
- TT is better but not great
- I hope they can rectify BEFORE handover here
I seriously worry for BC Also hope i'm wrong

It appears to me that the developer and NOT the selling agents (SP) are responsible for short changing investors up to now - SG need to wake up and smell the coffee - they can turn this negativity around and it won't cost that much !!

100% agree. I meant the outside of the building looks good.
SG do need to wake up and i will stand with you on any approach to SG as we must all stick together.

[True Blue]

Knocked back back for a Project Manager job on more than one SG project! I thought it was common knowledge.

If enough people keep repeating this then someone will eventually believe it's true.

Or maybe you already believe it's true:nuts:

The big missconception, that it's a personal thing between me and SG propogated by people who can't come up with any practical arguments to my "opinions"

[MANUTD]

If enough people keep repeating this then someone will eventually believe it's true.

Or maybe you already believe it's true:nuts:

The big missconception, that it's a personal thing between me and SG propogated by people who can't come up with any practical arguments to my "opinions"

TB your not far wrong with what you say usually - and it seems to me that CAYAN are using the right contractors --ARABTEC seem to me to be steets ahead of DCE and are able to construct difficult buildings in far quicker time that DCE !

[MANUTD]

100% agree. I meant the outside of the building looks good.
SG do need to wake up and i will stand with you on any approach to SG as we must all stick together.

Me and a few others will be in touch :cheers:

[mackie1964]

To do what? All materials have been purchased in advance years ago and using the same workers, supervisors, managers and most of all, you are dealing with the same crooks and once a crook always a crook. There will be always a way to make more money out of you and screw you some how.

Organisations that have the power to do something about it are incapable and are unwilling to do it.

Good luck, I gave up and can't wait to offload my last unit within the Torch :cheers:

[jeffers]

Still the old brochure on Select website, good for floorplans. http://www.select-group.ae/brochures.html

From this still can't understand how UK Select who we purchased from are saying that they are not the developer, or part of the group of companies...
http://www.select-group.ae/sales.html

Anyone who terminated heard anything more yet from developer ??

[Mistermark]

Anyone who terminated heard anything more yet from developer ??

Negotiations continue. For this reason, I for one am holding off discussing what has happened until I know whether or not a solution can be found.

[Yousuf27]

If enough people keep repeating this then someone will eventually believe it's true.

Or maybe you already believe it's true:nuts:

The big missconception, that it's a personal thing between me and SG propogated by people who can't come up with any practical arguments to my "opinions"

I'm sure that many of us - but mostly those cleverer than me - can come up with practical arguments to many of your opinions -and I'm talking about your "opinions" rather than your professional knowledge of construction. I think High Times put it better than I could ever put it mate.

If you keep telling yourself you've bought good units in the best buildings in the best part of the marina, presumably you'll end up believeing that yourself - so it's probably a worthwhile pastime for you. I personally don't have any arguments - good or bad - to present about The Jewels or Dorra Bay - well except I would tend to agree with High Times having read his post. If you're happy down there mate then - way to go you!

One of the things which detroys your credibility and the value of your undoubted technical knowledge is the way you tend to cherry pick all the good points about developments you like and only bad points about developments you don't like. There is such an obvious lack of objectivity balanced reasoning in much of what you write that ends up in the category which is impolitely labelled "Bollox!"

[True Blue]

^^I promise to try harder in future.........especially now I know there's a beer riding on it:cheers:

[Naz UK]

If you ever see a beer riding on anything, you have definitely had too much to drink :D

[Dubai_Steve]

Interesting post from the point thread and again a reminder why you must not sign an addendum at any cost if on the LPP with the Torch at handover.

To all SG LPP Victims

We’ve had a response from our lawyer regarding SG’s LPP Addendum. Bearing in mind the legal group have paid for the advice I will not publish the complete report as this would be unfair on those who have stumped up money. I have provided some key points which will hopefully give unsigned LPP owners some comfort and also points for further investigation.

These are the key observations the lawyer made:-

•5A.5 of the Addendum was described as ‘horribly onerous’ and not
consistent with the UAE Civil Code which does not allow developers to treat all monies paid as forfeit in the event of a failure to pay an installment.

•5A.7 Termination would result in a total loss of investment including any rental money received being passed back to SG.

•5.8A – Indemnity has serious implications for an owner in the event SG suffer loss through any action of the owner or owner’s tenants.

•10A.3 – SG retain right to charge ie mortgage the property and in the event that SG default on any loan secured against the property a bank could take possession or sell your unit.

•10A.4 Grants SG “irrevocable authority” to change the agreement for securitisation purposes. This was considered by the lawyer to be undesirable and outside the scope of what this agreement was trying to achieve.

•10.1 Prevents LPP owners from selling the property without SG’s permission. The lawyer could not understand the logic behind this.

•3.1 of the Tenancy agreement is ‘very messy and probably confusing’ as the tenant would be confused who the actual landlord was.

•8.7 Tenancy renewal after 12 months is at the discretion of the developer – This is not consistent with general law, which says that a tenant does have the right to renew except in certain circumstances. It also arguably denies a tenant the benefit of the rent-cap law

Summary

•SG cannot force LPP owners to sign the Addendum. Where they state “you are required to sign” they are being "completely dishonest" – we are not required to sign at all!

•The agreement was considered not fit for purpose, poorly written and full of contradictions. It was suggested a judge would probably give up trying to find any sense in the SPA and Addendum and look to enforce the spirit of the contract.

•We have a legally arguable case for possession if we are not inclined to sign the Addendum.

[SGrCRAP]

Thought this would be of interest to all you guys........ ex Emaar heavyweight projects people on the ground at SG now.......maybe you'll get your Torch and not a cheapo flashlight now............

I had a chat this morning with someone in the know at Select Property who was fully aware about what's been going on at the Point. I have to say I was really surprised as they were pretty much bang on our collective wavelength in terms of the finish.

As we all know there's been a disconnect between what was sold and what's being delivered at the Point in terms of finish. From what I gather the Torch and Bay Central will hopefully not suffer the same problems as SG have recently taken on some heavyweight ex Emaar project manager types.

We discussed the client liaison function which was passed across to SG fairly recently. Select Property told SG they would need to resource this function properly but SG didn't put enough resource behind this initially and client liaison suffered badly as a result.

I was invited to go to Select Properties' offices in the UK where they would be happy to talk through their corporate structure and financial interests in their various developments. I think this offer extends to all their clients. It would appear at a corporate and board level they do not have any financial stake in Select Group or the Point development so rumors to the contrary are effectively baseless.

I got the general feeling that Select Property are genuinely concerned about what's happening at the Point and they are doing the best they can to get things on track and use their influence accordingly.

They agreed that the building was probably handed over prematurely in light of where it is at present but this decision was outside their sphere of influence.

The Addendum has nothing to do with Select Property - It's an SG creation in an attempt to protect SG's exposure to bad LPP debt.

So in summary the burden of responsibility for a quality product lies squarely with Select Group.

This appears to be a classic example of a solid sales organisation being tarnished by a poor delivery partner. As an ex-sales guy this is sales 101 - once someone's gone to all the hard work of getting a customer for you - it's in your best interests to keep them happy.

Happy customers mean more business through referral and up-selling. Look at how many Select clients bought multiple units in various developments. Select Property were obviously doing the right things. Let's see if SG can keep their side of the bargain and rise to the challenge.

[mackie1964]

^^The recently you are talking about was October last year, the same team that managed the point :bash::bash:

[Sheltie]

Very quiet on here, what floor are we on now?

[AltinD]

I don't know but a floor plate was completed recently and the pillars for the next one are comming up.

[mackie1964]

It cost him £90 to make the video.:lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Watch out for the Selective, Select broke R heart song, coming soon :cheers:

[thetorch]

It cost him £90 to make the video.:lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Watch out for the Selective, Select broke R heart song, coming soon :cheers:

^^

I just can't wait - that would be so awesome.

Can I write the chorus ....

On a dark desert highway .....................................

..........................................
...........................................

(Chorus)

"Welcome to the Torch dubai marina... (guitar stringing)....

Such a lovely place .. (such a lovely place )

We're waiting for ever,,,, at the Torch dubai marina

Anytime of day (anytime of day)

You wont find us here ....."


:)

The Torch

[talks]

While we are on the subject of money...has anyone got any ideas as to what we can expect as an approx value per sq ft on completion? I've got friends in Dubai that are giving me very inconsistent valuations. Even looking at sites selling property in the Marina, the prices go literally from the sublime to the ridiculous!



Distress Sales on Gulf News"Property Weekly" The Torch Development"

"COST PRICE"

I'll soon tell you why they are for sale at cost price".

[Saggy_Toad]

Distress Sales on Gulf News"Property Weekly" The Torch Development"

"COST PRICE"

I'll soon tell you why they are for sale at cost price".

Is this something to do why things have been so quiet on here lately???...what have you heard Talks?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ http://www.gnads4u.com/search.html?t=properties&keywords=torch

Probably someone who cant afford to make the payments anymore.

[Saggy_Toad]

oh well...thought it might be something more exciting than that! wheres Imre??? We could do with some more pics. has anyone been in touch with the company that will be dealing with the rentals yet?

[Rider]

wheres Imre??? We could do with some more pics.

You may wish to word your request a bit more respectfully. Imre is a legend round these parts :cheers:

[Dubai_Steve]

IMPORTANT MESSAGE ABOUT CHANGES TO 'MY SELECT PROPERTY'

As you will have read in your Project Updates recently, Select Property has changed the way it communicates with its customers on some of the developments we have previously sold.

For all developments on Dubai Marina, the developer in the UAE - Select Group - has now taken all communication relating to payment collection, contract changes including payment relaxation, transfers of ownership and Land Department registrations in-house with the creation of its own customer care team. Contact details for the developer on all of these subject areas are shown again below.

For all queries relating to The Torch, contact ccdxb@select-group.ae
For all queries relating to The Point contact ccdxbthepoint@select-group.ae
For all queries relating to payments, including receipts for payment, contact ccdxbpayments@select-group.ae
For all queries relating to law 13 and registration of ownership, contact ccdxblaw13@select-group.ae
Alternatively the fax number for contacting Select Group in writing is 00971 4368 3344

As a result of these changes Select Property will cease to issue some of the communication we may have sent out historically on behalf of Select Group. In particular we will no longer send out payment reminders or receipts on behalf of the developer, and information about payments you make will no longer be shown in your personal pages at My Select Property. Payment confirmation will come directly from the developer instead, you can contact them using the details shown above.

We will continue to update My Select Property with information relating to Pacific on Al Marjan Island and Aquitiainia on The World, as joint developers of these projects.

If you have any questions or comments about the information we provide here please contact us by email at premier@selectproperty.com

Thank you.


...

[True Blue]

^^D.I.V.O.R.C.E.

[talks]

Is this something to do why things have been so quiet on here lately???...what have you heard Talks?



Most of us who sent a Termination Notice after the 30th Jun,I presume received the same information.

Clyde&Co Solictors have advised Select Group on clauses 15.1/15.2/15.3 so that Select Group can show the advise letter to investors.

15.1......once select group claimed force majeure clause 15.3 applies only.

15.3......there is no mention of any refunds for Terminations for any Purchasers.Even if the developer now wishes to Terminate they also have to offer no refunds.

So I think you will find a lot of people sitting on edge at the moment.

[True Blue]

Claiming force majeure and proving it are two different things.

I wonder if Clyde and Co have advised them on how sound their FM claim is. As I said before, being inexperienced is no defence. They should not have made claims on projected progress without having carried out due dilligence.

If they got the timetables from a consultant then sue them, if they just guessed themselves then they have been found out.

[mackie1964]

Most of us who sent a Termination Notice after the 30th Jun,I presume received the same information.

Clyde&Co Solictors have advised Select Group on clauses 15.1/15.2/15.3 so that Select Group can show the advise letter to investors.

15.1......once select group claimed force majeure clause 15.3 applies only.

15.3......there is no mention of any refunds for Terminations for any Purchasers.Even if the developer now wishes to Terminate they also have to offer no refunds.

So I think you will find a lot of people sitting on edge at the moment.

:lol::lol: Bloody Amateurs

I was hoping to retire from this forum before I become a super geek and reach the 2,000 posts but it sounds like this will go on for ever :lol:

The long awaited and selective, Select broke R hearts, coming soon :cheers:

[High Times]

http://i29.tinypic.com/ok7gh2.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsxi8j.jpg



THANKS TO GERALD :)

[Dubai_Steve]

Most of us who sent a Termination Notice after the 30th Jun,I presume received the same information.

Clyde&Co Solictors have advised Select Group on clauses 15.1/15.2/15.3 so that Select Group can show the advise letter to investors.

15.1......once select group claimed force majeure clause 15.3 applies only.

15.3......there is no mention of any refunds for Terminations for any Purchasers.Even if the developer now wishes to Terminate they also have to offer no refunds.

So I think you will find a lot of people sitting on edge at the moment.

Are you saying that Select can legally terminate our agreements at any time and legally steal the property?

[jeffers]

Most of us who sent a Termination Notice after the 30th Jun,I presume received the same information.

Clyde&Co Solictors have advised Select Group on clauses 15.1/15.2/15.3 so that Select Group can show the advise letter to investors.

15.1......once select group claimed force majeure clause 15.3 applies only.

15.3......there is no mention of any refunds for Terminations for any Purchasers.Even if the developer now wishes to Terminate they also have to offer no refunds.

So I think you will find a lot of people sitting on edge at the moment.

Surely this cannot stand, as all this is saying is that if the developer is totally incompetent to deliver on time than they can benefit from terminating and getting all monies paid to date. Have Clyde commented after reading the whole SPA or just commenting on the clauses mentioned in isolation ?? This is just daylight robbery and rude business practice and they should not be allowed to behave in this manner time and time again.:ohno: Repeat business after this, what's repeat business they should be asking?????

[Mistermark]

Are you saying that Select can legally terminate our agreements at any time and legally steal the property?

That's the logic of their position.

[mackie1964]

Clyde & Co have always been the sellers advisors (see your contracts) and probably written or at least validated the text before issuing all S&P Agreements. They probably were the ones that written the force majeure letter (if you believe Rahail that is) and we all know what the quality of that letter was and their claim for that matter.

Can someone post or email me a copy of that advice? :cheers:

May be they should feature in the song too :lol:

[jeffers]

That's the logic of their position.

So do we really want to continue with LLP payments ?? Rock and a hard place springs to mind !

[mackie1964]

So do we really want to continue with LLP payments ?? Rock and a hard place springs to mind !

Unless you have a specific agreement with Select Group (in Writing), do not break your side of the agreement. Just my opinion :cheers:

[Dubai_Steve]

Select will point a gun at your head. Don't sign their addendum and they will steal your apartment.

[Couragecougar]

12/July/2009

Dubai Marina , tallest block

http://i28.tinypic.com/30c2lwk.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/fmic85.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/34ziuxf.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2qs3yvs.jpg

Superb! :banana2:

[High Times]

I seem to remember back when FM was claimed i said that our collective efforts should be driven towards disproving 'Force Majeure'. This met with comments like FM doesnt need to be disputed as we can claim that the developer has not fulfilled other parts of their contractual obligations and other such crap.

Of course that was back in the day when we were all working as a group and "united ", before some went of and did private secret deals with SP.

"Force Majure" in this contract renders buyers absolutely helpless.

Divide and Rule, it's worked for centurys.

[Dubai_Steve]

It is not possible to dispute the Force Majure before hand over.

[gerald.d]

Of course that was back in the day when we were all working as a group and "united ", before some went of and did private secret deals with SP.

Another real-life example of a Nash equilibrium.

/edit

Actually. It may not be. My brain's aching just trying to work it out. Time for a beer.

[High Times]

It is not possible to dispute the Force Majure before hand over.

Factually incorrect. Iv'e allready done it. :cheers:

[mackie1964]

I seem to remember back when FM was claimed i said that our collective efforts should be driven towards disproving 'Force Majeure'. This met with comments like FM doesnt need to be disputed as we can claim that the developer has not fulfilled other parts of their contractual obligations and other such crap.

Of course that was back in the day when we were all working as a group and "united ", before some went of and did private secret deals with SP.

"Force Majure" in this contract renders buyers absolutely helpless.

Divide and Rule, it's worked for centurys.

:lol::lol:

Are you always right? Are you ever wrong? :dunno:

[Dubai_Steve]

Factually incorrect. Iv'e allready done it. :cheers:

So you did a secret deal with Select?

[thetorch]

Has progress stopped.

Just did a comparison between IMRE's pictures of the 19/7, versus those of today and I can't see any height difference at all.

Any views on this anyone?

Is it the heat that has halted build work?

The Torch

[High Times]

:lol::lol:

Are you always right? Are you ever wrong? :dunno:

I'm not always right. Just most of the time. I make most decisions in my business life knowing that if I'm right 2 times out of 3 I will do ok, and I do.

If it makes you feel any better knowing I am wrong too. I was totally wrong about you, as I thought you were a genuine stand up guy. I now know different. You have lied on more than one occaision on this forum and after meeting with people who have done business with you I can safely say that you are full of shit.

It's a small world isn't it. :cheers:

So you did a secret deal with Select?

No not at all. I am happy to continue with the agreed purchases of my appartments and it doesnt matter how late they are delivered to me. I have no need to do a secret deal with SP as I have no battle to fight with them.

There were several advantages of buying later on in this development. One of them being that most of the "alleged FM instances" were already known to the developer as they had "allegedly taken place". For a developer to then use FM on a contract which post dates the "alleged FM instances" is an interesting legal point when disscused in relation to clause (1.1 in schedule 8). UAE law is very clear that if certain factual instances are known, and later relied upon in a dispute, then it is dutifull to have made them known BEFORE and contractual committments were made. BY EITHER PARTY.

I find it amusing how within a couple of posts of missinformation all of a sudden SP are going to terminate everyones contracts and keep 658 units for themselves.

All this will be simply allowed to happen by the Dubai authorities because it says it's ok in the contract. It simply astounds me the level of conspirasy that builds when no-one has a fucking clue whats going on.

I Know RERA is useless and the Dubai courts are a close second in the waste of time olympics. But think of the big picture guys. A full scale termination of contrcts and a big fuck you isn't going to happen.

Those who terminated however. I tried to tell you that you would be waiting a very long time for your money when I offered my humble opinion. Well you might end up waiting even longer than I thought as you have terminated an agreement that now owes you knothing in return.

[mackie1964]

I'm not always right. Just most of the time. I make most decisions in my business life knowing that if I'm right 2 times out of 3 I will do ok, and I do.

If it makes you feel any better knowing I am wrong too. I was totally wrong about you, as I thought you were a genuine stand up guy. I now know different. You have lied on more than one occaision on this forum and after meeting with people who have done business with you I can safely say that you are full of shit.

It's a small world isn't it. :cheers:

I am the one full of shit? Are you sure?

Is this your way of gaining some credibility? I know better :cheers:

[jeffers]

Unless you have a specific agreement with Select Group (in Writing), do not break your side of the agreement. Just my opinion :cheers:

Absolutely, won't be going there myself but in light of their actions and interpretation this is somewhat uncomfortable.

[malec]

Has progress stopped.

Just did a comparison between IMRE's pictures of the 19/7, versus those of today and I can't see any height difference at all.

Any views on this anyone?

Is it the heat that has halted build work?

The Torch

Count again. Since the last time updates were posted (17th not the 19th) the floor plates have gone from 16 floors above the last mechanical floor to 17 floors, and it looks like the new floor may come soon.

[High Times]

I am the one full of shit? Are you sure?

Yes absolutely sure. Would you like me to drag up the evidence and post it.

Is this your way of gaining some credibility? I know better :cheers:

I dont need credibility. I have honour, which is more important to me than credibility.

I stand by what i say and occasionaly i get it wrong, most of the time i get it right. I called most things right on the money from the day I threw my cash into Dubai. The highs, the lows, the crash, the bank stocks, the recovery, the dollar rate, rents falling, commodity prices jumping.

It's all there in black and white.

You are the one who felt the need to go back and delete most of your posts slating SP as part of your 'sweet deal' not me. That and your promises of your reports back enlightening all of us that never materialised.

Now all of a sudden you've grown another pair of balls and want to write a song about the whole affair. Maybe you could sing it in all 6 of the languages that you speak, that would be youtube worthy I'm sure.

[mackie1964]

Yes absolutely sure. Would you like me to drag up the evidence and post it.



I dont need credibility. I have honour, which is more important to me than credibility.

I stand by what i say and occasionaly i get it wrong, most of the time i get it right. I called most things right on the money from the day I threw my cash into Dubai. The highs, the lows, the crash, the bank stocks, the recovery, the dollar rate, rents falling, commodity prices jumping.

It's all there in black and white.

You are the one who felt the need to go back and delete most of your posts slating SP as part of your 'sweet deal' not me. That and your promises of your reports back enlightening all of us that never materialised.
Now all of a sudden you've grown another pair of balls and want to write a song about the whole affair. Maybe you could sing it in all 6 of the languages that you speak, that would be youtube worthy I'm sure.

It was based on legal advice and I did get back to every single one that I met (and saw their contract) with and we had a second meeting upon my return in my office and people did not want to take it further, I did alone and paid for it alone too :)

Any one can take other people's work and paste it as there own, collect info and put them all on one posting ..... etc. you seem to repeat what many people say after collating them .......... no honor in copying and pasting.

The people that you met and know me are probably Select scumbags or Agents, I have no respect for any of them and always held the same views from day one, nothing have changed. Anyway, enough of the school play ground stuff.

Have a nice life :cheers:

[Joannides]

Reading these posts between Hightimes and Mackie is making me feel a little stressed - Chillout. guys! lets get back to the construction - if Imre doesnt post some pictures tomorrow, i promise i will :)

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i30.tinypic.com/rtnvhy.jpg

Flickr taken July 6

[thetorch]

Count again. Since the last time updates were posted (17th not the 19th) the floor plates have gone from 16 floors above the last mechanical floor to 17 floors, and it looks like the new floor may come soon.

Thanks for the clarification Malec.

I was looking at the images taken from the swimming pool quite a fair distance away, so wasn't that clear, but I'll take you word for it if you say its gone up a floor since the 17th.

Thanks

The Torch

[malec]

^^ The ones from the pool were taken on the 12th :)

[pinnacle1]

Wow. Heated or what. All this arguing and slaughtering one another. All this has been brought about by devious Dubai developers and a government that don't give a f*** what developers are doing. If the government are trying to promote Dubai, they have a funny way of doing it. There are going to be thousands of people losing their hard earn't money. It has nothing to do with(well you always take a gamble when buying off plan) thats b******s.
People may insult the British and call us yobs, but at least we have proper laws and an honest legal system. Dubai government are forever changing the laws to suit themselves or the developers. If they don't want foreigners coming to their country, don't try and sell us the dream and rob us of our money. I wish I had never invested in the country. Maybe the government should read some of the comments on this site and see how disillusioned investers are becoming.

[Saggy_Toad]

[QUOTE=Dubai_Steve;40344166]http://i30.tinypic.com/rtnvhy.jpg

Flickr taken July 6[/QUOTE

great pic!! can't wait to get back out there.

Are we still on target for inspection trips in Oct

[Mistermark]

Wow. Heated or what. All this arguing and slaughtering one another. All this has been brought about by devious Dubai developers and a government that don't give a f*** what developers are doing. If the government are trying to promote Dubai, they have a funny way of doing it. There are going to be thousands of people losing their hard earn't money. It has nothing to do with(well you always take a gamble when buying off plan) thats b******s.
People may insult the British and call us yobs, but at least we have proper laws and an honest legal system. Dubai government are forever changing the laws to suit themselves or the developers. If they don't want foreigners coming to their country, don't try and sell us the dream and rob us of our money. I wish I had never invested in the country. Maybe the government should read some of the comments on this site and see how disillusioned investers are becoming.

I agree with you. It's important that we focus on the common enemy. It's not other investors, or SP in the UK, but SG, the developer.

As for the Dubai Government, yes they've failed to create a legal and regulatory environment that prevents this kind of behaviour. However, they set up RERA for one reason, and one reason only: to protect Dubai from reputational harm bought about by developers scamming customers. So when a prima facie scam occurs, and there's a real prospect of it appearing in the Western media, they act.

[gerald.d]

Finally. A clear day. God what a difference it makes! :banana:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/Sm2cukqZYII/AAAAAAAAECA/qX2TFo-ORWw/s800/IMG_3124.jpg

Hammer time!

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/Sm2dya724DI/AAAAAAAAECE/X24K2_Qef14/s800/IMG_3117.JPG

(HDR version of that coming once my main computer has finished stitching yesterday's panorama. Which will take about another 24 hours at the current rate.)

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/Sm2eStOfAaI/AAAAAAAAECI/7EH6H5IwoEA/s800/IMG_3128.JPG

[MANUTD]

My head's still spinning Gerald LOL Great pics - can you do a gigapixel shot of TT when finished ? or is it rather involved and expensive ?

[gerald.d]

My head's still spinning Gerald LOL Great pics - can you do a gigapixel shot of TT when finished ? or is it rather involved and expensive ?

Gigapixels are all down to having a decent location to take the pictures from, and a bit of time and effort to snap away and process afterwards.

Time and effort I'm happy to devote. Location is always the challenge.

If I can get onto a balcony half-way up the building in the below shot with the Damac banner on it, or the building that the Emaar flag is hovering over, then a really good gigapixel shot of The Torch would be possible.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/Sm2lHbIvnGI/AAAAAAAAEDg/CkBPKDbzQgs/s800/IMG_3130.jpg

[Imre]

27/July/2009

Dubai Marina, tallest block

http://i28.tinypic.com/2elypfp.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/zmmwix.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/6s3uqv.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/oji06x.jpg

[mackie1964]

Thanks gents for the great photos and sorry for the earlier crap posted :cheers:

[thebhoypc]

hi all, not been on this forum long, just like to say thanks for all the info (not all helpful) and pic' updates

[Saggy_Toad]

would someone put into English what the score is with this contract amendment thing.I've tried reading some of the other posts and just end up going cross eyed! Is there anything to really be concerned about or are some people just taking a few stabs in the dark...and I don't mean that with any malice its just hard to pick your way through some of the heated debates.

[MANUTD]

would someone put into English what the score is with this contract amendment thing.I've tried reading some of the other posts and just end up going cross eyed! Is there anything to really be concerned about or are some people just taking a few stabs in the dark...and I don't mean that with any malice its just hard to pick your way through some of the heated debates.


"Jury is still out "--but should be good result for owners eventually i am hoping

[MANUTD]

Gigapixels are all down to having a decent location to take the pictures from, and a bit of time and effort to snap away and process afterwards.

Time and effort I'm happy to devote. Location is always the challenge.

If I can get onto a balcony half-way up the building in the below shot with the Damac banner on it, or the building that the Emaar flag is hovering over, then a really good gigapixel shot of The Torch would be possible.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/Sm2lHbIvnGI/AAAAAAAAEDg/CkBPKDbzQgs/s800/IMG_3130.jpg

Thanks Gerald --We need an IRIS BLUE owner then any offers ?
Or What about from a Grosvenor House hotel balcony if someone has an
"in" there - CBG has good contacts there -where are you CBG ?

[Imre]

28/July/2009

The Torch

http://i26.tinypic.com/213lnxc.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/zu885.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/2vwbw4m.jpg

[mackie1964]

Many thanks Imre

12 more to go if it is 84 floors which means end of October/ beginning of November for top up without the feature, allow for 4 more weeks contingency (heat, Ramadan, rain and other bollox), another year to complete the internals and carry out all commissioning activities, another 8 weeks for permits and 12 weeks for snagging and handover will take you to April 2011. My original estimate of Jan 2011 is now very optimistic. :cheers:

[Dubai_Steve]

Still hoping for my Dec 2010 £100 bonus :banana:

[jeffers]

Still hoping for my Dec 2010 £100 bonus :banana:

The Point took 11 months to complete final 12 floors and have ready for handover (although the use of the word "ready" is debatable)

Thanks for the picture update once again Imre.

[mackie1964]

The Point took 11 months to complete final 12 floors and have ready for handover (although the use of the word "ready" is debatable)

Thanks for the picture update once again Imre.

Yep and look at the result

Did my handover last week and this is my honest opinions.
(1) Snagging had not been satisfactorily completed.
(2)Swimming Pool & Gym not finished.
(3) Barbecue area complete mess nowhere near finished.
(4) Cladding to balconies not finished complete mess, silicone all over windows.
(5) Furniture pack not complete, sofa ripped, cracked partition walls, lights not working.
(6)Workers still everywhere, shop units still like building site.
(7)Worst of all is the paving and walls around the side & front of the building, the worse i have ever seen in any country. Possibly down to Emaar, but surely cant be the finished product.
(8) The only plus is Exclusive Lettings. They are a godsend and my only hope of completing the snagging problems.

I have to say i was very disappointed and feel let down badly. They just dont seem to care now. They have offered me 3750 dhs compensation for late penalty. Apparently it is Libor + 1%. I have asked them to explain but no responce and no idea how they arrive at that figure. I have just put it with Exclusive , hope to rent it out and just sit tight till the market picks up than sell and get the hell out of their.

[slowhand99]

Yes absolutely sure. Would you like me to drag up the evidence and post it.


I would.

HT has again highlighted the rogues who post on SSC. I think there are several people who deliberately make a big noise on this forum and nuisance of themselves generally in the hope that they can negotiate a secret deal with the developer that benefits themselves but no one else. Mistermark is a good example maybe Mackie as well. It is also happening on BC.

Pretty devious and selfish behaviour I'd say.

[mackie1964]

Don't worry Dumber, you will feature heavily in the song too. Don't feel left out.

Thanks for that, I am working away from home for a few days and quite bored :)

Now that your old partner on BC thread has started to wise up and think/act you need a new partner, take your pick. There are a few on here :lol:

By the way, I still have PMs from all of those people that keep telling us to keep quite telling me how much they agree with us but let us not say it in public to ensure that the developer does not go bust .............. yes right, clever thinking indeed.

I remember the days when everyone wanted to meet up and the big talk about what we were going to do but when it came to it, the people that turned up with a contract in hand, were the quite ones and a few that do not even post on here, just read.

I held the same view since week three after signing and getting misleading / wrong information and my views have not changed unlike some. :)

I could tell you a few stories and post some docs that could really cause major problems but I will not, I shall keep it just in case I need it at handover. I could also educate you a little but no, you don't deserve it.

And by the way, I don't need to do deals with anyone. I have listened to my legal advisor for now but our strategy could change based on SG performance / quality on handover.

Back to construction, I will not rise to this crap again …………… I promise (unless I am attacked again of course).

[jeffers]

Yep and look at the result

Lets hope that lessons have been learnt from their first development handover.

[mackie1964]

Lets hope that lessons have been learnt from their first development handover.

I hope so :cheers:

[gerald.d]

Thanks Gerald --We need an IRIS BLUE owner then any offers ?
Or What about from a Grosvenor House hotel balcony if someone has an
"in" there - CBG has good contacts there -where are you CBG ?

Meanwhile, here's a 200 megapixel effort taken from the Palm Crescent -

Base image:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hOl2e0230VA/SnBWiHpiuUI/AAAAAAAAEGQ/w757YkMyop8/s800/_ptgtmp_5V9D49.jpg

Cleaned up, Zoomified version:

http://dxbae.com/Tallestblock.html

[High Times]

^^ :applause:

Amazing work Gerald.

Check out the absailing guy coming down Emirates Crown on the penultimate horizontal white cladding panel.

[gerald.d]

^^ Isn't that one of the red beacons?

[High Times]

^^ Isn't that one of the red beacons?


Yes, i was just kidding. If you look at it though, it sort of kind of looks like it could be a man absailing.

Can you PM me some more of those thai girl in the shower at JBR shots from your balcony. :cheers:

[AltinD]

^^ Where were those pictures posted ... was any of them named Mitzy (Dupree)?

[Caribarra]

Hello everyone im new to this site, I have tried to read what I can and this game seems to turn and turn until now the developer has 100% control of the situation.

Just received my notice that I will not be able to claim my money back as they are using a get out clause. I was lead to believe that when all had failed I would at least get my money back. There a word for this type of business.

WHAT NOW????? ANY IDEAS WILL BE VERY VERY VERY WELCOME.

THANK YOU.

[Imre]

31/July/2009

The Torch

http://i28.tinypic.com/15rcfpk.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/qp00go.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/2s9od3s.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/qrhxs7.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/2pq5bns.jpg

[ramzy]

Hello everyone im new to this site, I have tried to read what I can and this game seems to turn and turn until now the developer has 100% control of the situation.

Just received my notice that I will not be able to claim my money back as they are using a get out clause. I was lead to believe that when all had failed I would at least get my money back. There a word for this type of business.

WHAT NOW????? ANY IDEAS WILL BE VERY VERY VERY WELCOME.

THANK YOU.

What do you mean you won;t get your money back? Did you actually terminate the SPA?

[Sheltie]

I hope they learn a lesson from the disastrous handover of The Point apartments. I would not want to go to Dubai to do snagging till the tower is complete and all the apartments have already been checked over by Select. I would have thought this would have been the procedure but obviously not.

They just wanted the final payment as quickly as possible and the tower wasn't even complete.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ Will be the same for the Torch. Plan is to force handover as soon as possible before truely finished to get fiunds and minimize penalties. Same with all towers in Dubai.

[scoobudubai]

I agree with you. It's important that we focus on the common enemy. It's not other investors, or SP in the UK, but SG, the developer.

As for the Dubai Government, yes they've failed to create a legal and regulatory environment that prevents this kind of behaviour. However, they set up RERA for one reason, and one reason only: to protect Dubai from reputational harm bought about by developers scamming customers. So when a prima facie scam occurs, and there's a real prospect of it appearing in the Western media, they act.

Not impressed. Of course Dubai Select / SP in the U.K. are a bunch of fraudsters, how could you say they are not.

[Caribarra]

Yes I did send in my termination notice in June as directed by Select, I was told how to put this to the developer and given the appropriate contacts.

I received a letter by courier earlier this week, it said that the clause I had stated could not be initiated due to force major. This invoked the next paragraph to terminate and this gives no right for me to receive funds back, I phoned their solicitor in Dubai who said that if I didn't withdraw my statement I would still terminate but loose my funds.

With that information I immediately withdrew my termination statement and as I said in my last post WHAT NOW. Does this mean that the developer can do anything they wish and we are simply not covered e.g. not ready for January?

This situation now seems to be out of control concerning their trusting clients, they are now in complete control of the situation and if anyone knows different please let me know. I think it is a disgrace that the contract that I signed with complete confidence had a stealth get-out clause for the developer. Why did Select consistently tell me that if all failed that I could still claim my money back. Their opinion only changed when I contacted them after receiving the letter from the solicitor. Has anyone lost funds due to the delay?? what happens if you don't make the payments? Select have started to charge if you want to make a request to relax 1 payment (what a scam this is).

I would be extremely grateful for any information to set my mind at rest - THANK YOU ALL.

[MANUTD]

Not impressed. Of course Dubai Select / SP in the U.K. are a bunch of fraudsters, how could you say they are not.

SP UK have been tarnished , possibly irreparably by SG attitude to "quality" in Dubai
- SG have delieverd way below promised spec.
- I genuinly believe SP have been duped also by SG
- lets see is The Point is sorted first
- I hope everyone will learn from that to make TT a better place

[High Times]

Does this mean that the developer can do anything they wish and we are simply not covered e.g. not ready for January?

Yes that's right.

The FM claim by the developer gives them total control over the situation which is precisely why (as I said back in FEB), everyone’s efforts should have been focused on legitimately refuting the FM claim in the correct manner.

The FM claim was a strategic move by SG when they came to realise (through the sabre rattling on this forum), that quite a few investors were going to go down the refund road. I also suggested that voicing such intentions publicly was damaging (much to someone’s disapproval, and amusement).

As soon as SG realised the potential sums of money that they would have to repay, their only option was to claim FM in order to prevent paying (as I have recently warned on the thread).

The so called construction experts among us should be ashamed of themselves for not pointing out how ridiculous the FM claim is. I have had to engage professional engineers just to find out what some of the reasons mean. However I am confident that the FM claim is unsubstantiated legally as most of the main reasons occurred early on in the process. I did not sign a contract with SG until mid 2007. At that time I was assured that no instances of FM had previously occurred. From mid 2007 there is clear evidence (through this forum that steady progress has been made), apart from a month of delays due to SG working off of old drawings. Hardly an FM claim.

The redesign, permits, and other FM issues largely pre date 2007 when construction started. So if one has evidence stating that FM instances had not previously occurred in mid 2007, and progress thereafter can be proved to be steadily consistent averaging 1 floor per week (apart from a cock up which is SG’s own fault). FM is simply not true. RERA have agreed to FM and sanctioned it without taking all of the facts into consideration.

The FM letter was fabricated and put to RERA for approval. Whoever approved it at RERA may have made a very big mistake indeed, and actually taken part in fraud which however medieval the UAE legal system is, I still believe to be Illegal.

[BJÖRN_7215]

Dear Skyscrapercity, Torch forumers;

I do not have much experience with investments and hoping for some advice please.

My parents bought a type 5 apartment in this building using their life savings and some more. They were hoping to retire last year in Dubai and enjoy a few years in peace after a very long and hard working life. They were so proud of it and since 2005, no day goes by without talking about the Torch and they looked forward to photos and news from the kind people on this forum. This forum has been a good source of information to them as they could not rely on Dubai Select for real information.

Over the last few months it has finally became clear to them that they were told all kind of lies and their plans had to be changed to reflect this.

They are now very concerned and do not believe what the developer or the agent is telling them and this is now making them ill. Last communications from the developer explained that they are due to inspect the apartment Sept/Oct. this year but they are assuming that this is now not true.

In general, they are quite worried about their investment / home and the ability of the developer to deliver the 5 star living / retirement experience they were sold. They are worried about the quality, the views that might not get, the fees …etc. They are also worried to whether they will ever get their home and if they will be allowed to live in Dubai. I think reading some of the comments on here, I can understand why they feel that way.

They finally listen to me and consulted a lawyer who told them that they have limited experience with the Dubai Laws and they would be better consulting a lawyer in Dubai using an embassy recommended Dubai based lawyer. Again, they are worried about the cost of this.

Any chance for some advice here on the following:
-Is their investment safe? They have paid most of the cost, only one installment left.
-When will this building finish?
-Are they going to be allowed to retire on full time basis in Dubai?
-Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Dubai?
-What are typical costs for a lawyer in Dubai?
-Is there a government body that they can consult? Do they charge for such advice?
-How can some people access their apartments in the photos above?

They have so many more questions and any help would be appreciated.
We apologies for our bad English but thanks to Microsoft spelling tool.

Please help if you can

Björn

[MANUTD]

Yes that's right.

The FM claim by the developer gives them total control over the situation which is precisely why (as I said back in FEB), everyone’s efforts should have been focused on legitimately refuting the FM claim in the correct manner.

The FM claim was a strategic move by SG when they came to realise (through the sabre rattling on this forum), that quite a few investors were going to go down the refund road. I also suggested that voicing such intentions publicly was damaging (much to someone’s disapproval, and amusement).

As soon as SG realised the potential sums of money that they would have to repay, their only option was to claim FM in order to prevent paying (as I have recently warned on the thread).

The so called construction experts among us should be ashamed of themselves for not pointing out how ridiculous the FM claim is. I have had to engage professional engineers just to find out what some of the reasons mean. However I am confident that the FM claim is unsubstantiated legally as most of the main reasons occurred early on in the process. I did not sign a contract with SG until mid 2007. At that time I was assured that no instances of FM had previously occurred. From mid 2007 there is clear evidence (through this forum that steady progress has been made), apart from a month of delays due to SG working off of old drawings. Hardly an FM claim.

The redesign, permits, and other FM issues largely pre date 2007 when construction started. So if one has evidence stating that FM instances had not previously occurred in mid 2007, and progress thereafter can be proved to be steadily consistent averaging 1 floor per week (apart from a cock up which is SG’s own fault). FM is simply not true. RERA have agreed to FM and sanctioned it without taking all of the facts into consideration.

The FM letter was fabricated and put to RERA for approval. Whoever approved it at RERA may have made a very big mistake indeed, and actually taken part in fraud which however medieval the UAE legal system is, I still believe to be Illegal.

You might "believe" it to be illegal but it looks like SG are getting away
with it ?

[yecabel]

:lol:
Completion end 2007. Emaar building in front of the Tower has planning for 12 storeys eventually.

Best Sea Views will be at the back of the building obviously higher up.

www.dubaiselect.co.uk

[Caribarra]

Hi all,

So has anyone any information concerning the following, will Select will take your money and run if the payment plan has been stopped, even though the company are going to be 19 months late (If the Jan 10 deadline is go, don’t hold you breath). Am I to really to believe that a company that is this late with a project can get away with taking clients money?

Does anyone know who you need to contact for a chat over in Dubai (Forget Select - UK) there to try and get some common sense answers to such questions?

Thank you yet again.

[barry mcbarry]

Dear Skyscrapercity, Torch forumers;

I do not have much experience with investments and hoping for some advice please.

My parents bought a type 5 apartment in this building using their life savings and some more. They were hoping to retire last year in Dubai and enjoy a few years in peace after a very long and hard working life. They were so proud of it and since 2005, no day goes by without talking about the Torch and they looked forward to photos and news from the kind people on this forum. This forum has been a good source of information to them as they could not rely on Dubai Select for real information.

Over the last few months it has finally became clear to them that they were told all kind of lies and their plans had to be changed to reflect this.

They are now very concerned and do not believe what the developer or the agent is telling them and this is now making them ill. Last communications from the developer explained that they are due to inspect the apartment Sept/Oct. this year but they are assuming that this is now not true.

In general, they are quite worried about their investment / home and the ability of the developer to deliver the 5 star living / retirement experience they were sold. They are worried about the quality, the views that might not get, the fees …etc. They are also worried to whether they will ever get their home and if they will be allowed to live in Dubai. I think reading some of the comments on here, I can understand why they feel that way.

They finally listen to me and consulted a lawyer who told them that they have limited experience with the Dubai Laws and they would be better consulting a lawyer in Dubai using an embassy recommended Dubai based lawyer. Again, they are worried about the cost of this.

Any chance for some advice here on the following:
-Is their investment safe? They have paid most of the cost, only one installment left.
-When will this building finish?
-Are they going to be allowed to retire on full time basis in Dubai?
-Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Dubai?
-What are typical costs for a lawyer in Dubai?
-Is there a government body that they can consult? Do they charge for such advice?
-How can some people access their apartments in the photos above?

They have so many more questions and any help would be appreciated.
We apologies for our bad English but thanks to Microsoft spelling tool.

Please help if you can

Björn

Boy I'm glad I'm not your parents. They're f**ked.:lol::lol:

Is it true that Agnetha is preventing a reunion world tour?:cheers::cheers:

[MOAF]

I personally believe Select property & Select Group, are a company which lacks, integrity,honesty,& respect for its massive customers base...

I will be very surprised if Select Property & Select Group are around in a few years..

I certainly will "not" buy anything from these Buch of incompetant Twats EVER again ...

[High Times]

Any chance for some advice here on the following:
-Is their investment safe? They have paid most of the cost, only one installment left.
-When will this building finish?
-Are they going to be allowed to retire on full time basis in Dubai?
-Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Dubai?
-What are typical costs for a lawyer in Dubai?
-Is there a government body that they can consult? Do they charge for such advice?
-How can some people access their apartments in the photos above?


Bjorn,

You will get different answers from different people depending on how optomistic/pessamistic they are. Also how gullible and unrealistic they have been too.

I like to think of myself as a realist so here’s my opinion.

Is their investment safe?
Safe is a relative term with respect to investments. Is their investment as safe as a Bank account, no probably not. Is it as safe as an investment in a completed property anywhere in the world, no probably not. Is their investment as safe as it can be in any Dubai off-plan investment, yes. Their funds are held in an Escrow account which is basically in trust with a Sharia compliant Bank in Dubai. The Torch project is 100% sold out and in my opinion is more than 95% likely to be finished and delivered as a project. In the current financial climate this is a relatively good position to be in.

When will this building finish?
Having been from top to bottom of the Interior of the building a month ago I think that the structure will top out in November this year. It will be complete around November-December 2010 and it will be handed over and ready for occupation by April/May 2011. I am not a construction expert but that's how I see it going. Any earlier is a bonus as far as I am concerned.

Are they going to be allowed to retire on full time basis in Dubai?
This will depend on the UAE visa laws which I understand are being looked at in detail by the authorities. I don’t think there will ever be a guaranteed right to residency for all in the UAE. I think that there will eventually be a property based visa that will allow owners of property to stay in the UAE for 6 months at a time, with some kind of renewable option by leaving the country for a specified period of time, ideally a day, probably a week or a month. There are other ways to have a visa such as setting up a business in a freezone or another Emirate such as Ajman. It's the same as anywhere in the world, if you have the money you can do it.

Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Dubai? / What are typical costs for a lawyer in Dubai?
No I don’t think there are any GOOD lawyers in Dubai. The legal system in Dubai is in it's infancy and still works on the basis of "who do you know". In my opinion every $ spent on a lawyer in Dubai is another $ wasted.

Is there a government body that they can consult? Do they charge for such advice?
Yes they are called RERA. They too are a monumental waste of time and have been put in place by the Government to give the world the impression that the Dubai real estate market is a safe place to invest. It is, if you are a Developer. As an investor it is like the wild west, but in the east. Here is their website - http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/welcome (http://www.rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/welcome)

How can some people access their apartments in the photos above?
You can arrange a site visit by contacting the developer in Dubai. I suspect that you meant how can people move into a half complete building. They cant. No one will be allowed to occupy this building until the Dubai Municipality have approved it as complete. This will be sometime late in 2010 - Early 2011.

In summary, I think your parents have got a good long term investment and it will be delivered within the next 2 years to an average Dubai standard. The location of this building is excellent, and will look great when complete. I am sure there will be many more problems to deal with as completion approaches. That is the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

Anyone investing "their life savings and more" in one single project with an unknown developer in another continent, far away from their own country, is subscribing to a high risk strategy in my view. As your parents only have one more payment to make on completion, my advice would be to sit back and relax for 18 months and not be worried about anything that's out of their control. All developments in Dubai are delivered late and most delivered to a standard below what was sold on the glossy brochures. I don’t know how much they paid for their unit but if it was the going rate at launch I'm sure they will be able to sell it at a profit soon after completion if they wish.

I hope that is of some help to you.

[thebhoypc]

Dear Skyscrapercity, Torch forumers;

I do not have much experience with investments and hoping for some advice please.

My parents bought a type 5 apartment in this building using their life savings and some more. They were hoping to retire last year in Dubai and enjoy a few years in peace after a very long and hard working life. They were so proud of it and since 2005, no day goes by without talking about the Torch and they looked forward to photos and news from the kind people on this forum. This forum has been a good source of information to them as they could not rely on Dubai Select for real information.

Over the last few months it has finally became clear to them that they were told all kind of lies and their plans had to be changed to reflect this.

They are now very concerned and do not believe what the developer or the agent is telling them and this is now making them ill. Last communications from the developer explained that they are due to inspect the apartment Sept/Oct. this year but they are assuming that this is now not true.

In general, they are quite worried about their investment / home and the ability of the developer to deliver the 5 star living / retirement experience they were sold. They are worried about the quality, the views that might not get, the fees …etc. They are also worried to whether they will ever get their home and if they will be allowed to live in Dubai. I think reading some of the comments on here, I can understand why they feel that way.

They finally listen to me and consulted a lawyer who told them that they have limited experience with the Dubai Laws and they would be better consulting a lawyer in Dubai using an embassy recommended Dubai based lawyer. Again, they are worried about the cost of this.

Any chance for some advice here on the following:
-Is their investment safe? They have paid most of the cost, only one installment left.
-When will this building finish?
-Are they going to be allowed to retire on full time basis in Dubai?
-Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Dubai?
-What are typical costs for a lawyer in Dubai?
-Is there a government body that they can consult? Do they charge for such advice?
-How can some people access their apartments in the photos above?

They have so many more questions and any help would be appreciated.
We apologies for our bad English but thanks to Microsoft spelling tool.

Please help if you can

Björn

Hi,

im no expert but the bottom line seems to be if you stick it out till the end youll only be loosing out on rental income.

is this a fair assessment?

[Yousuf27]

Boy I'm glad I'm not your parents. They're f**ked.:lol::lol:

Is it true that Agnetha is preventing a reunion world tour?:cheers::cheers:

I have never seen you write anything that was in the slightest way interesting or constructive - and don't expect to. Mostly you're not even mildly amusing.

This contribution was more rude and insensitive than your usual cretinous outpourings. You clearly don't know when to shut the f**k up.

[High Times]

Am I the only one that is really impressed with the way the exterior of the building is starting to look ?

http://i25.tinypic.com/2cnfsk8.jpg

If you look at how the light is being reflected off of the aluminium cladding that has had the protective film taken off, I think it looks stunning. If you imagine the whole tower complete and film removed on a clear day. This tower is gonna out shine its peers which are mainly boring old concrete. This added to the fact that it is starting to look more cylindrical from the first mechanical floor up due to no balconies in the middle of the elevations, all in all I think the Torch will be very pleasing to the eye in comparison to most of the other towers in this area

Any thoughts on this ?

[Grubbman]

Boy I'm glad I'm not your parents. They're f**ked.:lol::lol:

Is it true that Agnetha is preventing a reunion world tour?:cheers::cheers:

Thats not just a low thing to say its bordering on evil. <you must be a very bitter man.

[Dubai_Steve]

Select have started to charge if you want to make a request to relax 1 payment

Can you elaborate on this, is it possible to arrange payments break on the LPP plan?

[Anjam]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Am I the only one that is really impressed with the way the exterior of the building is starting to look ?

^^No :)

[True Blue]

..................................................
The so called construction experts among us should be ashamed of themselves for not pointing out how ridiculous the FM claim is. I have had to engage professional engineers just to find out what some of the reasons mean......................................

You're right! The so called construction experts have done you a major injustice by not warning you years ago that this developer may just be making unreliable claims and missleading everyone.

Any news on compensation? Or has anyone been suggesting for a long time now that it is unlikely to be paid?

I am not happy reading about the latest developments here as it is going to harm the image of Dubai affecting us all.

[Anjam]

Boy I'm glad I'm not your parents. They're f**ked.:lol::lol:

Is it true that Agnetha is preventing a reunion world tour?:cheers::cheers:

Grow up!

[Mistermark]

Can you elaborate on this, is it possible to arrange payments break on the LPP plan?

No. I asked for one, but received the response that unfortunately the developer requires the instalments in order to continue building.

Since then they've changed the rules so you have to pay them for the honour of having them consider your request to waive instalments that you would easily have been able to meet, had they kept their side of the deal and built the project to schedule.

I guess it's just about possible that they could by now have collected enough such payments to enable them to grant one or two people's requests, but I'd have to say it's unlikely. Otherwise, it's simply an opportunity to donate an additional sum to SG's coffers...:ohno:

[thetorch]

Boy I'm glad I'm not your parents. They're f**ked.:lol::lol:

Is it true that Agnetha is preventing a reunion world tour?:cheers::cheers:

Disgusting reply, you should be ashamed of yourself. These poor retirement people have serious concerns about their future, and all you can do is reply with such callas indifference.

You should be ashamed of yourself, you clearly have no place in The Torch when built.

The Torch
(no doubt my post will be deleted like the rest of them!)

[barry mcbarry]

I have never seen you write anything that was in the slightest way interesting or constructive - and don't expect to. Mostly you're not even mildly amusing.

This contribution was more rude and insensitive than your usual cretinous outpourings. You clearly don't know when to shut the f**k up.

Don't be so rude.:banana::banana:

[barry mcbarry]

Thats not just a low thing to say its bordering on evil. <you must be a very bitter man.

Which side of the border?:banana::banana:

[barry mcbarry]

Disgusting reply, you should be ashamed of yourself. These poor retirement people have serious concerns about their future, and all you can do is reply with such callas indifference.

You should be ashamed of yourself, you clearly have no place in The Torch when built.

The Torch
(no doubt my post will be deleted like the rest of them!)

Is that Maria Callas? If so I am far from indifferent. I am a massive fan.:cheers::cheers:

[barry mcbarry]

Grow up!


:nuts::lol::clown::bleep:

[Joannides]

"We are writing to make you aware that following our most recent in-depth project review the overall completion date of the Torch Tower, Dubai Marina, has been confirmed as January 2010 however we are pleased to confirm that buyers will be invited to inspect their properties from September this year"

Given that the same letter states that:

"The structure will be complete by 15th July 2009",

has anyone received any notification that Select Group cannot meet the deadlines they set out in their letter dated end of of January?

[Yousuf27]

Can the mods not deal with this oxygen thief barry mcbarry who has nothing worthwhile to contibute here? His inappropriate behaviour and infantile attempts at humour surely warrant a banning?

[jeffers]

Anyone receive a July email update from Select ?

[Dubai_Steve]

Anyone receive a July email update from Select ?

No my understanding is that Select Property will now only update My Select Property with information relating to Pacific on Al Marjan Island and Aquitiainia on The World, as joint developers of those projects.

Would be nice however if Select Group in Dubai had the decency to issue updates to their buyers also.

[jeffers]

No my understanding is that Select Property will now only update My Select Property with information relating to Pacific on Al Marjan Island and Aquitiainia on The World, as joint developers of those projects.

Would be nice however if Select Group in Dubai had the decency to issue updates to their buyers also.

Cheers Steve, Nothing rec'd on Pacific from Select Prop either.:doh:

[MANUTD]

Barry, the members on here are so polite.. What they are trying to say is dont be a cunt all your life, have a day off.

CBP--I think its to do with being a "chelsea" boy -- (thats a slightly more civlised "c" word with the same meaning in Barry's case) :ohno:

[MANUTD]

Dear Skyscrapercity, Torch forumers;

I do not have much experience with investments and hoping for some advice please.

My parents bought a type 5 apartment in this building using their life savings and some more. They were hoping to retire last year in Dubai and enjoy a few years in peace after a very long and hard working life. They were so proud of it and since 2005, no day goes by without talking about the Torch and they looked forward to photos and news from the kind people on this forum. This forum has been a good source of information to them as they could not rely on Dubai Select for real information.

Over the last few months it has finally became clear to them that they were told all kind of lies and their plans had to be changed to reflect this.

They are now very concerned and do not believe what the developer or the agent is telling them and this is now making them ill. Last communications from the developer explained that they are due to inspect the apartment Sept/Oct. this year but they are assuming that this is now not true.

In general, they are quite worried about their investment / home and the ability of the developer to deliver the 5 star living / retirement experience they were sold. They are worried about the quality, the views that might not get, the fees …etc. They are also worried to whether they will ever get their home and if they will be allowed to live in Dubai. I think reading some of the comments on here, I can understand why they feel that way.

They finally listen to me and consulted a lawyer who told them that they have limited experience with the Dubai Laws and they would be better consulting a lawyer in Dubai using an embassy recommended Dubai based lawyer. Again, they are worried about the cost of this.

Any chance for some advice here on the following:
-Is their investment safe? They have paid most of the cost, only one installment left.
-When will this building finish?
-Are they going to be allowed to retire on full time basis in Dubai?
-Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Dubai?
-What are typical costs for a lawyer in Dubai?
-Is there a government body that they can consult? Do they charge for such advice?
-How can some people access their apartments in the photos above?

They have so many more questions and any help would be appreciated.
We apologies for our bad English but thanks to Microsoft spelling tool.

Please help if you can

Björn

Bjorn - your parents could have done worse at least this is being built and will be completed albeit perhaps not to the standard we thought OR on time but it will be delivered within 18 months

have pm'd you my e-mail adress if you want swap stories

[ramzy]

Bjorn - your parents could have done worse at least this is being built and will be completed albeit perhaps not to the standard we thought OR on time but it will be delivered within 18 months

have pm'd you my e-mail adress if you want swap stories

I agree. It could have been worse I suppose when you compare to those investors who have been invested on other projects, like the damac ones. I just watched those Channel4 news clips from 27 July, and I just can't believe what's happended to them.

[jeffers]

I agree. It could have been worse I suppose when you compare to those investors who have been invested on other projects, like the damac ones. I just watched those Channel4 news clips from 27 July, and I just can't believe what's happended to them.

News clips ?? where can we find them online ?? thanks.

[FWIW]

Barry, the members on here are so polite.. What they are trying to say is dont be a cunt all your life, have a day off.

+1 :applause:

[Imre]

04/August/2009

Dubai Marina , tallest block

http://i27.tinypic.com/307n2iq.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/14twot5.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/24d50uc.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/346xf12.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2d0gemq.jpg

[ramzy]

News clips ?? where can we find them online ?? thanks.

Check out post 1730 on the Ocean Heights thread.

[Imre]

04/August/2009

The Torch

http://i26.tinypic.com/25hoieg.jpg

[barry mcbarry]

+1 :applause:

+2:applause:

[Dubai-Sail]

barry mcbarry,

You should quit while you're ahead. Perhaps your statement wasn't actually meant to sound as cold as it did. Rergardless of your intent, Bjorn was clearly distressed, and was asking for help.

An apology would help both parties here.

[yecabel]

thank you imre for the great shots. TT is now the tallest building in the marina, but what floor are we currently on?

barry, i feel so sorry for you.
from your messages, it is clear you have been bullied a lot in your life and that explain why you use the net to get your revenge back on others.
unfortunately, all you get is hate and pity; so much pity that even the moderators are not rushing to ban you from this forum.
poor barry.

[jeffers]

Check out post 1730 on the Ocean Heights thread.

Seems I am a day late, can only call up from 28th July, oh well, thanks anyway :cheers:

[Sheltie]

I tried too and could only get from the 28th as well. Don't know if there's any other way of getting it.

[mackie1964]

I tried too and could only get from the 28th as well. Don't know if there's any other way of getting it.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/dubai+from+boom+to+gloom/3286157

[Sheltie]

Thanks Mackie.

[DAMAC]

Thanks

[Impy]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsoCu9Tt3hc

[High Times]

Wow guys, thanks for the links to the doom and gloom of Damac ripping people off. So much more interesting than discussing the positives in life like how great the building is starting to look.

I find it staggering that i make a comment on how the building is starting to look with the protective film coming off urging discussion and opinions, and i get 1 response. Barry cracks a poor joke, and we get nearly a whole page of bollocks discussing the joke.

What i found even more interesting than what we have known about Demac for years was the second video down in the 'related videos' list;

Colon Clensing and Coffe Enemas - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqdgDuxIuP4&feature=related

I only wish this Forum could have an enema from time to time. :)

[Caribarra]

Yes you can have a Relaxation of Payments however before you get excited there is a catch as always with Select. You can only apply and receive a delay once only, I applied for a delay until handover (no chance) three months is all that they will grant however, I declined the three month offer and paid my June payment as I wanted to terminate and receive my money back.

As we now know we cannot get our money back therefore I had to re-apply for the payment relaxation.

I was informed that there is a new form and I will be charged about £75.00 for each application and if I accept an offer a further £280.00 will be applied to my handover account (£350.00 approx if you get an offer the first time).

They are totally oblivious to the fact that people are only applying for a payment break due to Selects incompetence to deliver a building within a reasonable time scale.

This company really are having it all their own way..........repeat business? Somehow I do not think so.

[jeffers]

Coffee enemas, now that seems even more of a pain in the arse then having to deal with Select Group !

[Caribarra]

Hi

This did come from Select Group, they seem to be taking over a lot of the day to day functions away from Select here in the UK. The UK part of Select seem to be the sales and support team, and only give information from the Select Group in Dubai.

Currently they are sticking to the line that this project is on schedule with the new deadline of January (2010).

[Mistermark]

Hi

Currently they are sticking to the line that this project is on schedule with the new deadline of January (2010).

Despite the January construction schedule stating that the building would be topped out by 15 July, something they may not achieve much before the end of the year?

Bunch of jokers :ohno:.

[Yousuf27]

I find it staggering that i make a comment on how the building is starting to look with the protective film coming off urging discussion and opinions, and i get 1 response. Barry cracks a poor joke, and we get nearly a whole page of bollocks discussing the joke.


HT has a point - but imo barry still deserved at least a full page of rebuke and grief for his mornonic comment!

I was pleasantly surprised by the look of the tower in reality when I was in Dubai in April. I - like others who've said as much here - had thought the look was a bit disappopinting (compared to the rendering) when looking at posted photos. HT has highlighted the part of one of Imre's excellent shots where the protective film is off the cladding and the metal beneath is gleaming in the sunlight. You can appreciate this much more readily when you actually see the tower in the flesh and walk around and see the reflections changing. It's a revelation. So to all those who haven't had a chance to go out to Dubai and have a look, don't be disappointed and think this is going to be rather boring tower - it's isn't; - it's going to be stunning. When you see it finished and up close it will definitely have some wow factor - as well as all the advantages of it's location. That will be some consolation if we're all pissed off with the apartment finishes and the handover process. You only do the handover once and the finish can be fixed. The appearance and location of the building are more fundamental issues; - so take heart, and be convinced you probably did buy wisely after all

[arfie]

I find it staggering that i make a comment on how the building is starting to look with the protective film coming off urging discussion and opinions, and i get 1 response. Barry cracks a poor joke, and we get nearly a whole page of bollocks discussing the joke.


HT has a point - but imo barry still deserved at least a full page of rebuke and grief for his mornonic comment!

I was pleasantly surprised by the look of the tower in reality when I was in Dubai in April. I - like others who've said as much here - had thought the look was a bit disappopinting (compared to the rendering) when looking at posted photos. HT has highlighted the part of one of Imre's excellent shots where the protective film is off the cladding and the metal beneath is gleaming in the sunlight. You can appreciate this much more readily when you actually see the tower in the flesh and walk around and see the reflections changing. It's a revelation. So to all those who haven't had a chance to go out to Dubai and have a look, don't be disappointed and think this is going to be rather boring tower - it's isn't; - it's going to be stunning. When you see it finished and up close it will definitely have some wow factor - as well as all the advantages of it's location. That will be some consolation if we're all pissed off with the apartment finishes and the handover process. You only do the handover once and the finish can be fixed. The appearance and location of the building are more fundamental issues; - so take heart, and be convinced you probably did buy wisely after all

Yousuf I also think we will find the finishing internal is above average and we wont be too dissapointed. A friend of mine saw some of the finished units on Monday and he was pretty positive. Also from the pictures IMRE posted a month ago I think the internal finishing is not too bad at all.

[jeffers]

Can anyone confirm if the building is wearing a 74 or dare I ask a 75 level mark as yet ? Thanks :cheers:

[Yousuf27]

Yousuf I also think we will find the finishing internal is above average and we wont be too dissapointed. A friend of mine saw some of the finished units on Monday and he was pretty positive. Also from the pictures IMRE posted a month ago I think the internal finishing is not too bad at all.

Fingers crossed for that! It would be nice to not have to rip it apart and get it all refitted right at the beginning.

[mackie1964]

Yep, fingers crossed we get a nice in date and undamaged (only licked a few times) mars bar.

Happy days :cheers:

The happy Select broke R heart song, coming soooooooooon.

[mskhan]

Final payment due 1st September 2009.

Has anyone heard what the penalty is going to be and how it will be applied to the final payment.

[Mistermark]

Final payment due 1st September 2009.

Has anyone heard what the penalty is going to be and how it will be applied to the final payment.

Do you seriously think SG will be applying any penalties to themselves?

And if they do, you can bet it'll be made on the basis of the Jan 2010 completion date, which is clearly unachievable.

[Morrismarina]

No. I asked for one, but received the response that unfortunately the developer requires the instalments in order to continue building.

So regardless of all the "force majeure" bollucks, SG couldn't have completed the Torch by their stated completion date of 1st June 2008 in any event, as they wouldn't have collected enough money. This proves the original completion date was a total scam from the very outset. :ohno:

[Morrismarina]

Final payment due 1st September 2009.

Have you been told this by SG ?? Surely not ??

This is only three weeks away and look at the state of the tower it's not even topped out let alone completed. Are you sure this is right ??

Perhaps it is........if they can re-write contracts at The Point then anything's possible.

[mskhan]

When I recently enquired about the final payment for SPP this is the response that I received from ccdxbpayments@select-group.ae

Thank you for your email.

It is to inform you that currenlty Management has not decided the penalties prodedure. we will inform you once management take decision for the same.

Let me know if you need more info/have any further query.

Kind Regards



Fareed Ahmed
Financial Accountant


I assume that this means that the final payment due on 1 Sept 09 has to made in full and on time.

[Yousuf27]

When I recently enquired about the final payment for SPP this is the response that I received from ccdxbpayments@select-group.ae

Thank you for your email.

It is to inform you that currenlty Management has not decided the penalties prodedure. we will inform you once management take decision for the same.

Let me know if you need more info/have any further query.

Kind Regards



Fareed Ahmed



Financial Accountant


I assume that this means that the final payment due on 1 Sept 09 has to made in full and on time.

Surely this 01 Sept payment date can't be bulldozed through by SG if the tower is clearly so far from being completed. Surely it would be fairly easy to convince RERA for instance that it is patently completely unreasonable to ask SPP investors to be 100% paid up at least one year (that's a very optimistic one year as well!) before they're going to be able to move in?

Can anyone elaborate on whether SG are likely to try to enforce an 01 Sept 2009 final payment?

Foolishly or otherwise - after a short argument - I decided to accept the developer's delay compensation offer a few months back. I have an e-mail stating that it would be deducted from my final payment - but that's all, just an e-mail. Given their recent "don't give a f**K about the investor" attitude I'm half/fully expecting them to renege on that and ask for the payment in full with no compensation offset. Does anyone have anything more concrete on the delay compensation? It isn't much money but I hate being screwed over by people who of late seem totally hell bent on destroying completely the remaining tatters of any sort of reputation they ever achieved.

One assumes that Rahail is executing his exit strategy at present and customer satisfaction is ranking pretty low on his list of priorities!

[Joannides]

this talk of final payment in September is confusing me? the final payment on SPP is on completion? i'm sure they will try to state its complete as soon as they think they can get away with it, but that cant possibly be for several months yet?

[Sheltie]

Where did this final payment in September come from.
Did someone have that in their contract (not that it's worth much)? My contract says "final payment on completion".

[Joannides]

^^i just checked with SG here in Dubai and its final payment on completion.

[jeffers]

^^i just checked with SG here in Dubai and its final payment on completion.

Joannides, are you able to confirm what level they are up to at the moment ??

[Joannides]

Joannides, are you able to confirm what level they are up to at the moment ??

will check tomorrow morning, if someone doesnt state before then

[mackie1964]

Stop complaining and continue to cross your fingers :cheers:

[Imre]

07/August/2009

The Torch

http://i25.tinypic.com/sb7l9i.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/s5he8l.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/9va7x1.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/2l3szr.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/k35cgw.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/30m06rk.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/2rm1l6b.jpg

[Gheorghe348]

^^^
Aluminium shine is really quite visible now. This will be a beautiful tower I think.

[barry mcbarry]

Wow guys, thanks for the links to the doom and gloom of Damac ripping people off. So much more interesting than discussing the positives in life like how great the building is starting to look.

I find it staggering that i make a comment on how the building is starting to look with the protective film coming off urging discussion and opinions, and i get 1 response. Barry cracks a poor joke, and we get nearly a whole page of bollocks discussing the joke.

What i found even more interesting than what we have known about Demac for years was the second video down in the 'related videos' list;

Colon Clensing and Coffe Enemas - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqdgDuxIuP4&feature=related

I only wish this Forum could have an enema from time to time. :)


Thanks HT, though I would dispute that it was a poor joke. My response to "bjorn" was a deliberate parody of the general tenor of this thread which by and large expresses a generic "you're fucked" to eveyone who has invested in the torch, including myself.

I'm disappointed that Yousuf27 in particular, who ordinarily maintains a fairly positive and constructive tone, embraced the tiny mob of usual suspects seeking vicarious kudos through condemnation and personal attack.

I think the exterior is looking impressive. The jury is out on the internals, but as many have said, they can be adapted. The location remains spectacular.

Obviously the delay in completion is outrageous though not unique to this developer. Some of the business practices of SG are very low, though again not unique to them.

I still think there is more to be gained from retaining property in Dubai, (and The Torch) than bailing out. In many ways the global downturn will address the issue of oversupply and hopefully also dampen plans to construct 3x100 storey towers in front of us.

But what would I know. I'm sad, thick, cretinous and lonely. Let me return to my day job, trawling the internet for elderly folks to taunt and humiliate. It's so good for my vanishingly tiny self esteem.:nuts::lol::lol::cheers:

[Joannides]

as always, great photos, Imre!

[mackie1964]

Many thanks Imre :cheers:

As for the clown who thinks his comment was funny and anyone else who thinks it was a joke, you should really seek help :bash:

Glad to see some decent people still around like Mr Torch and others.

[agod]

Blimey, where's the old Barry gone

[barry mcbarry]

Many thanks Imre :cheers:

As for the clown who thinks his comment was funny and anyone else who thinks it was a joke, you should really seek help :bash:

Glad to see some decent people still around like Mr Torch and others.

I rest my case.:ohno::lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i29.tinypic.com/2l3szr.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/2ekk86p.jpg

:banana:

[Dubai_Steve]

http://i27.tinypic.com/28wgg2w.jpg

[Imre]

10/August/2009

Princess Tower and The Torch

http://i28.tinypic.com/2m7ugwm.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/33wqz41.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/imkle0.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/18zspt.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/zu5rpy.jpg

[Saggy_Toad]

I know I shouldn't 'big up' other developments (its a bit like embracing another football team!) but if they manage to pull off Infinity...thats going to be one hell of a building. Thanks again for all the latest pics. Has anyone looked into getting a standard mortgage on completed property over there? If so, who are the best people to start talking to?

[jeffers]

I know I shouldn't 'big up' other developments (its a bit like embracing another football team!) but if they manage to pull off Infinity...thats going to be one hell of a building. Thanks again for all the latest pics. Has anyone looked into getting a standard mortgage on completed property over there? If so, who are the best people to start talking to?

And TT being an amazing viewing position to fully take it in :cheers:

[True Blue]

http://i27.tinypic.com/28wgg2w.jpg

I almost didn't notice The Torch sleeping in the background:laugh:

Better watch out Infinity is sneaking up while you are snoozing!

[Yousuf27]

Those are serious hallucinagenic drugs you take TB!!

[Saggy_Toad]

http://www.ameinfo.com/205848.html

Have we really seen the turning point over the last couple of months???

Its becoming harder to find negative news articles (unless you include the good old British 'Dubai bashing' press)!!

[Sid]

GOT THIS EMAIL THIS AM. IM ON SPP & I THOUGHT FINAL PAYMENT WAS ON COMPLETION?? CAN ANYONE CONFIRM?
_____________________________

Your next property purchase payment is due on 1st September.

Use Select Money today, the financial services arm of Select Property, and you could save time and money.

Benefit today with Select Money
• No bank offers this level of service or flexibility.
• No receiving bank charges guaranteed.
• No commission charged.
• No Transfer Charge.

[True Blue]

^^You would need to be mad to pay 100% when there is no completion documents.

[Gheorghe348]

Seems to have come from "Select Money" who may have payment schedules that are not up to date... I'd check, I am sure they don't want completion payment...

[Sid]

^^You would need to be mad to pay 100% when there is no completion documents.

I hope its just an automated email based on the original completion date..

[True Blue]

I hope its just an automated email based on the original completion date..

May be, but if you paid I don't think they would correct their mistake and refund your money somehow.

[jeffers]

I hope its just an automated email based on the original completion date..

Just a generic email sent out to all purchasers I would guess, Next LLP instatments due 1st sep on my contracts so I guess they sent it to the whole purchaser database.

[Select_Property]

Dear all,

It has been brought to our attention by a purchaser that Select Money recently sent payment reminders to some customers by e-mail.

Due to an administrative error, these reminders were sent to some of the clients in The Torch project who are paying on the Standard Payment Plan. These clients’ final payment is due on completion of the project, so no payment is due now.

We have subsequently sent a further email to all customers affected to apologise for this error and any inconvenience it may have caused.

We understand that this may have caused confusion so decided to post on this forum as well as we know some of our clients read it frequently.

Regards,

Select Property

[Sid]

I hope its just an automated email based on the original completion date..

Muppets! >
____________________

Dear

You recently received an e-mail with a payment reminder and offering our currency exchange service.

Due to an administrative error, this e-mail contained the wrong payment dates for purchasers in The Torch project, who need to make the final payment on completion of this development.

In accordance with the terms of your contract with the developer, your final payment for your purchase is upon completion of the development works and not on the 1st September.

We apologise for this error on our part, and the inconvenience this may have caused you.

Should you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

[Joannides]

Dear Select Property,

Can you provide us with an update on progress to date and whether we're still being invited to view our apartments in October and for the completion to occur in January? I have contacted SG in Dubai on several occassions but all I get is radio silence... Maybe they will respond to an email from you!

Many thanks

[talks]

I hope its just an automated email based on the original completion date..

Don't worry Sid.I got an email last week,but funny enough I got one this morning telling me to forget about it as it was an admin error and final payment is on completion.

[Caribarra]

As the title says TYPICAL.

Maybe Select should use this method of communication more often because they certainly do not use normal channels of communication concerning items such as, answering complaints, giving up to date realistic/correct information (Completion dates), saying sorry when they get it wrong etc.

Come on Select try something new like letting your trusting long term investors know the truth, rather than information that just tries to pacifies us all. Try to remember we are the trusting investors that you have craved so much over the last few years, and I am sure will crave yet again - sometime in the future.

[Dubai-Sail]

SELECT PROPERTY

I'm not an investor in TT - It's interesting, however, to witness a response from you on the, "Concern Thread" – Sometimes you guys know where to communicate, never mind respond. Transparency is ALL, at all times, despite this climate. . .
Communicate your philosophy’s honestly and you’ll receive the endorsements you deserve.

Dubai-Sail

[Dubai-Sail]

Well done Caribbara ;-)

[Imre]

14/August/2009

The Torch

http://i26.tinypic.com/noawwo.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/6gdi02.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/dqj0o1.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/140dduw.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/ngi2s.jpg

[Poolview]

Thanks for the great photos Imre :applause::applause:

How much will Ramadan slow down construction as it seems to be about a floor a week just now:cheers:

[Mistermark]

What's the latest regarding termination notices - who has withdrawn theirs, and who's letting theirs stand?

For my part, I've withdrawn mine and will be proceeding with my purchases. The principal reason for doing so is that I think the Dubai market has hit bottom, with rents not having dropped as feared when the schools closed for the summer and selling prices edging up. I considered whether to push for a refund but took the view that by the time any money would have come through, there's a risk that the market would have moved against me. Also, while there are undoubtedly units available for the OP of my Torch units or less, I don't think they would have been comparable to mine in the Torch, which are on high floors, with exceptional views.

[MANUTD]

What's the latest regarding termination notices - who has withdrawn theirs, and who's letting theirs stand?

For my part, I've withdrawn mine and will be proceeding with my purchases. The principal reason for doing so is that I think the Dubai market has hit bottom, with rents not having dropped as feared when the schools closed for the summer and selling prices edging up. I considered whether to push for a refund but took the view that by the time any money would have come through, there's a risk that the market would have moved against me. Also, while there are undoubtedly units available for the OP of my Torch units or less, I don't think they would have been comparable to mine in the Torch, which are on high floors, with exceptional views.

Wise decision , I never did intend to let mine go back but good see some optimism

Although good return rents are difficult to come by and will get more difficult for year or so I believe especially as more units in Dubai are released
5% returns net may be all that can be commanded ? (still better than most investments at present)

I am hoping 3 beds may be easier to rent because they will be wanted by Familys and more affordable than before during the boom

At 1000 aed psf ish TT is going to be a good investment long term and a year from now can we expect to be in there ? (or probably Dec2010 ?)

12 weeks to top out (middle Nov ?) another month for the Torch bit ?

Hope to go up again End August so should report good news then

[Saggy_Toad]

good to hear all the positive comments. Theres only one way to go when you've hit rock bottom...

[Caribarra]

At the moment there is nothing happening with them, they have been refused as the developer had a get-out clause (Now what are the chances of that-then).

Anybody who has alternative information please let me know, thank you.

[jeffers]

What's the latest regarding termination notices - who has withdrawn theirs, and who's letting theirs stand?

For my part, I've withdrawn mine and will be proceeding with my purchases. The principal reason for doing so is that I think the Dubai market has hit bottom, with rents not having dropped as feared when the schools closed for the summer and selling prices edging up. I considered whether to push for a refund but took the view that by the time any money would have come through, there's a risk that the market would have moved against me. Also, while there are undoubtedly units available for the OP of my Torch units or less, I don't think they would have been comparable to mine in the Torch, which are on high floors, with exceptional views.

Welcome back Mark.:)

[barry mcbarry]

What's the latest regarding termination notices - who has withdrawn theirs, and who's letting theirs stand?

For my part, I've withdrawn mine and will be proceeding with my purchases. The principal reason for doing so is that I think the Dubai market has hit bottom, with rents not having dropped as feared when the schools closed for the summer and selling prices edging up. I considered whether to push for a refund but took the view that by the time any money would have come through, there's a risk that the market would have moved against me. Also, while there are undoubtedly units available for the OP of my Torch units or less, I don't think they would have been comparable to mine in the Torch, which are on high floors, with exceptional views.

This must be an all time classic piece of literature.

Rabbit Run.

Brideshead Revisited.

Great Expectations.

Portnoys Complaint.

I love MM. He is hypocrite-in chief.:nuts::banana::lol::cheers:

[barry mcbarry]

This must be an all time classic piece of literature.

Rabbit Run.

Brideshead Revisited.

Great Expectations.

Portnoys Complaint.

I love MM. He is hypocrite-in chief.:nuts::banana::lol::cheers:

PS:

10/10 for anyone who has read at least one of those books.:banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Mistermark]

This must be an all time classic piece of literature.

Rabbit Run.

Brideshead Revisited.

Great Expectations.

Portnoys Complaint.

I love MM. He is hypocrite-in chief.:nuts::banana::lol::cheers:

Meaning?

[Yousuf27]

Hearing any other investor's philosophy re their investment choices is interesting. Others can draw on their ideas and may reconsider their own strategy as a result. Views on the market are also invaluable - even if they are only personal views. It all helps. I think it's of huge value to hear someone say I've decided to change my targets here and this is why I've done it! Thanks to MM for sharing it with us - and for what it's worth I think you've made a good decision.

It beats mulling over the efforts of our underachieving would-be resident comedian. I haven't even cracked a smile yet, - let alone uttered a laugh! Go on Barry rise to the challenge, - write something intelligent, relevant, and funny; - yes all at the same time please!! ,

[Mistermark]

Thanks Yousuf. I've spent a lot of time over the past few weeks trying to decide whether or not to push the 'nuclear' button; if I'd acted purely on principal, I would have done it. But I kept remembering a post on this forum, just a few weeks ago, showing the views from a high floor (coincidentally, one on which I have a unit) and recalled High Times post, which was something along the lines of 'and when it comes time to show prospective tenants around, you'll simply lead them to the full-length windows, let them admire this view, then ask "so - when do you want to move in?"'

[Yousuf27]

Thanks Yousuf. I've spent a lot of time over the past few weeks trying to decide whether or not to push the 'nuclear' button; if I'd acted purely on principal, I would have done it. But I kept remembering a post on this forum, just a few weeks ago, showing the views from a high floor (coincidentally, one on which I have a unit) and recalled High Times post, which was something along the lines of 'and when it comes time to show prospective tenants around, you'll simply lead them to the full-length windows, let them admire this view, then ask "so - when do you want to move in?"'

I wish I'd been a bit more commecial when I bought my unit and had thought about it's rentability as opposed to - what I like! What I like, does not appear to be the norm. I bought an 03 - so called "Marina View" as opposed to "Marina Facing." It was my first foray into the Dubai property market and initially I bought the apartment for me. I was also very "green." I spend my working life looking at yachts, marinas, and the sea so thought a view of the city/golf courses etc would be a nice addition - and a change of scene, - to the partial marina view. I'm almost exactly half way up the building and do have a nice view over phase 1 and the marina moorings in that area as well as the inland view. It would have suited me, but then I decided quite early on that I had no intention of using it myself. On that basis I wish I'd gone for an 05/06 above the 50th floor - then as HT has quite rightly pointed out the World is pretty much your oyster for rentability. I guess mine is not going to be easy to find a tenant for. Ho hum - we live and learn!!

[ramzy]

I wish I'd been a bit more commecial when I bought my unit and had thought about it's rentability as opposed to - what I like! What I like, does not appear to be the norm. I bought an 03 - so called "Marina View" as opposed to "Marina Facing." It was my first foray into the Dubai property market and initially I bought the apartment for me. I was also very "green." I spend my working life looking at yachts, marinas, and the sea so thought a view of the city/golf courses etc would be a nice addition - and a change of scene, - to the partial marina view. I'm almost exactly half way up the building and do have a nice view over phase 1 and the marina moorings in that area as well as the inland view. It would have suited me, but then I decided quite early on that I had no intention of using it myself. On that basis I wish I'd gone for an 05/06 above the 50th floor - then as HT has quite rightly pointed out the World is pretty much your oyster for rentability. I guess mine is not going to be easy to find a tenant for. Ho hum - we live and learn!!

Isn't 07/08 marina facing?

[Mistermark]

06 faces the marina from all rooms, with a balcony facing diagonally across the marina and sea. 05 is the same but the balcony faces the marina and inland. 07 is sea-facing from the rooms and has a balcony with sea and marina views, 08 is sea-facing with sea and Palm views from the balcony - but of course the sea views are interrupted by other towers below about the 65th floor (59th as described by SG, due to the reconfiguration).

[jeffers]

Above 1st mech floor, both 05 and 06 face the marina from all rooms, and balc's face the marina from both openings, they are half width towards the ends.:)

[Tosh]

What are 01 and 02 like then chaps!
Somebody please also explain this reconfiguration thing.
Thanks

[ramzy]

06 faces the marina from all rooms, with a balcony facing diagonally across the marina and sea. 05 is the same but the balcony faces the marina and inland. 07 is sea-facing from the rooms and has a balcony with sea and marina views, 08 is sea-facing with sea and Palm views from the balcony - but of course the sea views are interrupted by other towers below about the 65th floor (59th as described by SG, due to the reconfiguration).

I just looked at the floorplans on selects website and can see depending upon the floor you are on determines which aspect / apartment type faces the marina. I own a one bed 07 marina facing. Hence my confusing question regarding 07/08 being marina facing or not.

Phew! You had me worried then.

[barry mcbarry]

Hearing any other investor's philosophy re their investment choices is interesting. Others can draw on their ideas and may reconsider their own strategy as a result. Views on the market are also invaluable - even if they are only personal views. It all helps. I think it's of huge value to hear someone say I've decided to change my targets here and this is why I've done it! Thanks to MM for sharing it with us - and for what it's worth I think you've made a good decision.

It beats mulling over the efforts of our underachieving would-be resident comedian. I haven't even cracked a smile yet, - let alone uttered a laugh! Go on Barry rise to the challenge, - write something intelligent, relevant, and funny; - yes all at the same time please!! ,

We clearly share a different sense of humour, so a date is out of the question.

MM is a smart guy, I just never agreed with his decision to terminate. I'm glad he's back on board.

Onwards and upwards............:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Yousuf27]

That's a shame I was looking forward to meeting you at some point!

[Saggy_Toad]

What are 01 and 02 like then chaps!
Somebody please also explain this reconfiguration thing.
Thanks

You get the view of the golf course and the Atlantis (when the heat haze dies down) but you do have to stand on the balcony to see them or squash your face up to the window! I've got an 02 half way up the building and unfortunately there is no view what so ever looking from the back of any room other than the neighbouring tower. Its not a bad thing, you just have to remember that these apartments were cheaper for a reason. But no matter what, we still have a fantastic building in a great location. I've been looking at sites that rent out apartments in our next door neighbour tower (marina heights) and yes the achievable rents are lower than marina facing but I just keep reminding myself that I was once quite happy to pay a small fortune for a suite in the Waldorf Astoria in New York with a fantastic view of next to nothing. I guess if we make the apartments as luxurious as poss without going crazy, we will still get them rented out without a fuss....or is that just me with my 'glass half full' opinion as ever!!!!!

[slowhand99]

Thanks Yousuf. I've spent a lot of time over the past few weeks trying to decide whether or not to push the 'nuclear' button; if I'd acted purely on principal, I would have done it. But I kept remembering a post on this forum, just a few weeks ago, showing the views from a high floor (coincidentally, one on which I have a unit) and recalled High Times post, which was something along the lines of 'and when it comes time to show prospective tenants around, you'll simply lead them to the full-length windows, let them admire this view, then ask "so - when do you want to move in?"'

this is so, so funny. Sounds like you finally got the deal you have been angling for all these months

talk about two faced

[Mistermark]

this is so, so funny. Sounds like you finally got the deal you have been angling for all these months

talk about two faced

Remind me, what is it that you do for a living...?

[Caribarra]

Just wondering about the guy who withdrew his termination notice, as far as I am aware it was irrelevant. The developer has their own get-out clause so everyone was just wasting their time and effort sending it in the first place - including your truly.

Maybe I am wrong about this fact, if I am please let me know - thank you.

[Morrismarina]

Believe me Rahail Aslam is a really clever bloke and investors are stiched up by the contract. If anything is left out then he just gets you to sign a 14 page Addendum before handing over your keys !! Not legal by any stretch of the imagination but a very clever businessman, who has complete disregard for his customers........and the law.

[Dubai_Steve]

...

[jeffers]

Believe me Rahail Aslam is a really clever bloke and investors are stiched up by the contract. If anything is left out then he just gets you to sign a 14 page Addendum before handing over your keys !! Not legal by any stretch of the imagination but a very clever businessman, who has complete disregard for his customers........and the law.

Thats why we need a solid plan when it comes to handover of the tower, all working together, not individuals trying for themselves.

[Poolview]

Thats why we need a solid plan when it comes to handover of the tower, all working together, not individuals trying for themselves.


100% with you on that

[agod]

Notice the Torch kept on going up through all of this, anyone know which is the crane, on which building that was just about to get hit.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5223/mov00357.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/mov00357.jpg/)

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2460/mov003693.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/mov003693.jpg/)

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5427/mov003695.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/mov003695.jpg/)

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/199/mov003704.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/mov003704.jpg/)

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5172/mov003706.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/mov003706.jpg/)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3986/mov003708.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/mov003708.jpg/)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5856/mov003703.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/mov003703.jpg/)

[Gheorghe348]

Wow, amazing pictures

[jeffers]

Now I get it, that's why the claimed F.M. there was a storm once upon a time... its all coming together now !!:nuts: