#COMPLETED: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m [Archive] - Page 44

Impy

September 20th, 2009, 05:56 PM

Dubai World Chairman Sees Return to Growth After Reorganizing

By Anthony DiPaola

Sept. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai World, the United Arab Emirates sheikhdom’s government-owned holding company, will resume growth after naming new executives and reorganizing holdings.

“The worst for us and for that matter, Dubai, is over,” Bin Sulayem said in an interview with daily Gulf News that was confirmed by a spokesman today. “The situation at Dubai World is much better and we are going to move ahead with most of our programs.”

Dubai World, one of the three-largest government-owned groups in the sheikdom, had $59.3 billion in liabilities at the end of 2008 and is restructuring amid a slump in Dubai and a decline of nearly 50 percent in property prices.

The emirate’s state-run investment and real-estate companies are cutting expenses by putting projects on hold and reducing staff as the global recession cuts access to credit.

Dubai will soon return “to a strong growth path” as government steps to support the economy during the financial crisis will help expansion restore investors’ confidence, Bin Sulayem said.

The government plans to raise the second half of its $20 billion bond program to aid state-owned firms struggling to refinance debt. The first $10 billion was raised by selling bonds to the U.A.E.’s central bank in February.

Those measures have helped restore confidence in Dubai’s economy, meaning bankers are “ready to fund projects,” Bin Sulayem said.

Morrismarina

September 20th, 2009, 07:02 PM

And what exactly has this to do with the Torch ?? :dunno:

jeffers

September 21st, 2009, 03:08 PM

From 21st Aug update:

<<Select Group has informed us that they will be communicating with every Torch customer in the next 30 days and will provide a full status and handover update.>>

Has anyone been contacted?
(I guess not...)

There we go, as expected, communication rec'd last minute to advise that revised completion date now put back to July 2010 due to current conditions of F.M.

Poolview

September 21st, 2009, 03:30 PM

There we go, as expected, communication rec'd last minute to advise that revised completion date now put back to July 2010 due to current conditions of F.M.
Great news for all you glass half full people out there & for the rest of us that look at the glass half empty these C**TS are really now taking the F**KING PISS

True Blue

September 21st, 2009, 04:20 PM

"Current conditions of FM"!!!!

What are the current conditions, a lack of daylight during the night:dunno:

Tosh

September 21st, 2009, 08:50 PM

mackie1964

September 21st, 2009, 09:01 PM

"Current conditions of FM"!!!!

What are the current conditions, a lack of daylight during the night:dunno:

Shortage of Sand :dunno: Can't think of any other FM event :cheers:

Al;

Those chill bills of yours don't work on me :lol:

agod

September 21st, 2009, 11:14 PM

Infinity went up three floors over Ramadan.
Lots of activity on the Botanica site.
Torch went up Zero floors over Ramadan bar three window glass panes.
WOW!

No pump on site=no concrete pours.

What is going on here? Not a lot actually!!!!!
somebody got any credible info.?

Alan before you start,I am not worried but just a little concerned.

Hello Tosh

I meant to answer your other post, but I went out to take some photos of my favourite crane drivers at work (The Ginger Beers) and do you know what, that crane hasn't moved for 3 days solid, now i'm worried, because it all looks to quiet for me up there, they whole place is in darkness, even the flashing light to avoid low flying magic carpets is turned off, but I have some good news, I did spy in one of IMRE's photo's the pump is around the other side, so I think SP or is it SG who read these posts, has obviously playing a practical joke on me by shifting it, so I can't see it, little rascals.

Anyhow, let me tell you, and I am a Man of the World, this is my first Rubadub, and very non-descript it was, the whole place has suddenly woke up today, everone is back in town, and the JBR walk, and the Marina walk as well are heaving again, even the temperture has dropped, like someone higher than me, new it was over.

AGod

p.s Mackie explain please.

thetorch

September 21st, 2009, 11:15 PM

Imre

September 22nd, 2009, 08:45 AM

21/Sept/2009

Princess Tower, The Torch

http://i38.tinypic.com/2hx8s3t.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/aw4vvp.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2dlky2u.jpg

agod

September 22nd, 2009, 11:16 AM

IMRE's Photo's, prove to all you doubters, that our crane drivers are still working in perfect harmony.............

Alan

Joannides

September 22nd, 2009, 11:20 AM

...

paul66

September 22nd, 2009, 11:37 AM

Going by the construction progress, Summer 2010 handover always seemed the most likely scenario, what was everybody expecting? end of this year??? It will be worth the wait when its done though!

True Blue

September 22nd, 2009, 11:58 AM

^^Is that sarcasm or do you not know what you are talking about?

The equipment is still there so wait till Wednesday and see if things start moving again. Most companies are on holiday until Wednesday.

Gheorghe348

September 22nd, 2009, 12:01 PM

People forget Ramadan is like Christmas. How many construction sites in the UK are buzzing on the 25th of December? Not that many.

Remember those workers need a holiday too.

Poolview

September 22nd, 2009, 04:09 PM

Going by the construction progress, Summer 2010 handover always seemed the most likely scenario, what was everybody expecting? end of this year??? It will be worth the wait when its done though!
If you read your construction update they had knocked it back to April 2010 so I did not expect the end of this year anyway but what does annoy me is the underhanded way that they do everything like waiting until those on SPP had paid their 90% & then the following week announce that the completion date had been put back then claim FM in January so no one can claim compensation & now claim current conditions of FM again whatever that means I don't know. So I gather the little compensation that I should have gotten which was going towards a replacement for that white cooker hood, will no longer be forthcumming & I will have to pay to replace it myself along with the replacement of the other items which were supposed to be 5 star finishings not the 2 star that they are. The point of this rant is SG or SP or whatever your name is just tell me the TRUTH if the completion date is going to be july 2010 or whatever the next date you pluck out of fresh air is going to be GROW A PAIR OF BALLS & tell me now, when you screw me on the compensation (yes they have already)come out & tell me to my face instead of hiding behind this FM bulls***t, & the only thing that I am wating for is the correct date so that I can rip out the shitty finishings & replace them with the proper Quality finishings the we have already Paid for

Victoria and David

September 22nd, 2009, 08:43 PM

Checked out site today. Workers were there although largely just sitting around. Concrete rather than being pumped was being lifted in a small concrete skip from the ground to the top with the tower crane. General level of activity seemed very low as did Bay Central Site (both DCE) whereas Botanica looked very productive with a different contractor. Is FM issue maybe to do with DCE/Select relationship?

jeffers

September 22nd, 2009, 10:33 PM

. Is FM issue maybe to do with DCE/Select relationship?

It could well do if FM stands for F**king Mistake, then yes Selects relationship with DCE is the FM they advise.

mackie1964

September 22nd, 2009, 10:49 PM

Posh Spice may have a point but with those crooks, it could be anything :dunno:

May 2008, Time Place. Abraj refused to pay a DCE bill due to performance, DCE took all the keys during handover and disappeared from site leaving only a few workers. Developer gets exited and order their own people to use a drill and replace all locks ............ a few phone calls and Arabic / Indian 2 hours stand off and shouting, developer backs off and pays part of the bill and DCE back on site and supplied me with a few useless workers that took over 20 days to repair the miss they did (they broke as many as they fixed) and they lived happily ever after :lol:

@Al;

Those cheeky investors, what are we going to do with them? :dunno:
Just because they pay on time and stick to their end of the bargain, the greedy ba****ds expect to get delivery of their Mars Bars :ohno:

reillycorblimey

September 23rd, 2009, 01:00 AM

just got my construction update,
now put back to july 2010 with snagging viewings to be reschedualed for may 2010 onwards.
force maj...........whatever still quoted

Caoi1971

September 23rd, 2009, 03:04 PM

HI , got my letter today as well mentioning the new completion date and new dates for snagging. At least it has been informed and fingers crossed that there wont be further delay.

The pragmatic view I have at things at the moment is that when completed if the property that I purchased at least holds its initial purchase value then it has most probably outperformed most other investment oppertunities over that have been available over the past years. One very large piggy bank !

Of course it still needs to be completed and then I need to sell the thing !

I know a fair number of other people who are in a lot worse positions than this with investments in Dubai and eslewhere.

//C

vijay@stavanger

September 24th, 2009, 04:57 PM

If you read your SPA, it states that the Developer has to hand over the apartment within 30 days. If he is unable to do so, you have the option of canceling and receiving all your money back.

jeffers

September 24th, 2009, 08:30 PM

If you read your SPA, it states that the Developer has to hand over the apartment within 30 days. If he is unable to do so, you have the option of canceling and receiving all your money back.

F.M. has been claimed, you need read it again Vijay.

Imre

September 25th, 2009, 12:21 PM

25/September/2009

The Torch

http://i37.tinypic.com/2lsd7k3.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/dy17v4.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2cct407.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/24gvdb7.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/ddyltw.jpg

agod

September 25th, 2009, 01:21 PM

If you read your SPA, it states that the Developer has to hand over the apartment within 30 days. If he is unable to do so, you have the option of canceling and receiving all your money back.

Vijay, go back to thread page approx 492 around June time, and read what was said then on the subject.

ALan

True Blue

September 25th, 2009, 01:30 PM

No signs of life and no sign of progress on the Ramadan floor.

Infinity has just announced a 2011 H1 completion and is catching every day:)

vijay@stavanger

September 25th, 2009, 03:57 PM

paul66

September 25th, 2009, 04:09 PM

^^
He may hate you right now, but when he gets the keys he'll thank you!

MANUTD

September 25th, 2009, 09:44 PM

True Blue

September 26th, 2009, 12:36 PM

Oops, my friend who bought in The Torch on my recommendation is not going to be very happy. I just hope that he does not come looking for me with a double barrel!! Time to get out of Stavanger but the blasted The Point does seem to get completed!!

Vijay

Vijay

^^
He may hate you right now, but when he gets the keys he'll thank you!

First he has to sign the addendum document and waiver for compensation before he gets his keys.:)

Why did you not recommend Infinity? Cayan not give you coffee and biscuits:laugh:

vijay@stavanger

September 26th, 2009, 04:11 PM

non comprehende ??

Which part of my nessage were you not able to understand?
I have a friend Living in Stavanger who bought a apartment in The Torch on my recommendation. Of course, he is not happy with all the problems and false promises/information coming from the Developer. Unfortunately, I am held responsible for getting him into this mess. Wish my apartment in The Point was ready so I could move in.

Vijay

MANUTD

September 26th, 2009, 09:47 PM

Which part of my nessage were you not able to understand?
I have a friend Living in Stavanger who bought a apartment in The Torch on my recommendation. Of course, he is not happy with all the problems and false promises/information coming from the Developer. Unfortunately, I am held responsible for getting him into this mess. Wish my apartment in The Point was ready so I could move in.

Vijay

COMPREHENDE - I AM SURE ITLL BE ALRIGHT EVENTUALLY VIIJAY

speedy333

September 27th, 2009, 12:13 AM

tell ur friend to suck a tit lol, 99.99 percent of projects in dubai are anywhere between 6 months and 3 years behind. nothing suprising or new.

Yousuf27

September 27th, 2009, 11:18 AM

Lovely turn of phrase Speedy!

agod

September 27th, 2009, 11:37 AM

Today is another beautiful day in paradise, the humidity of the last couple of months has passed, and the clear blue skies, and lower temperture, means I can see the torch...............and I see that there is more glass above the mechanical floor, facing the SZR.

Al.

ramzy

September 27th, 2009, 12:21 PM

Imre

September 27th, 2009, 02:32 PM

27/September/2009

The Torch

http://i36.tinypic.com/20k58wi.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2dlu34w.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/kdtjk4.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2ztlrv9.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/f2605t.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/161am34.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2h531gz.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/y983.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/4j82rk.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/ifbqbk.jpg

agod

September 27th, 2009, 02:55 PM

Thanks IMRE, lovely shots as usual.

Al

Sid

September 27th, 2009, 02:59 PM

^^
Good to see some activity! They're now glazing the 3rd segment.

I havent recieved the latest delay letter. Can anybody kindly share the main points, other than handover put back to July 10?

Thanks in advance.

Sheltie

September 27th, 2009, 04:27 PM

I haven't had the letter either. The upper floor corner balconies seem to be split. They are small anyway, does anyone know why?

mackie1964

September 27th, 2009, 11:49 PM

^^ Here is a copy, same to every one

http://i34.tinypic.com/16k2o1x.jpg

Sid

September 28th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Cheers mackie

paul66

September 28th, 2009, 07:30 PM

How much is the goodwill payments?? I have not received this information from Select nor the above letter!!

talks

September 28th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Mackie who's name is at the bottom of the letter.eg, individual person's name.

Thanks in advance.

Caribarra

September 30th, 2009, 12:15 AM

True Blue

September 30th, 2009, 12:15 PM

Hi all

I just thought you would like to view and comment upon a piece of information/advice that I have recently received concerning The Torch and our rip-off contract.

......................................................................................

The solicitors have attributed the delay in handing-over the property to Force Majeure, however, it has treated the cause as a given fact and it did not provide any justifiable reasons for such classification of the cause of delay.

Please be advised that Force Majeure shall satisfy the below conditions to constitute a legal ground to cause to suspend contractual obligations and/or terminate mutual binding agreements:

1 A public event due to supernatural causes (a storm, an earthquake, a volcano etc.) or other causes (wars and epidemics) which shall make the implementation of the obligations under the Sale and Purchase Agreement of the Property (“SPA”) impossible.

2- No party of the SPA shall be responsible for the occurrence of such event; and

3- The event/accident could not have been foreseen or avoided by planning ahead.
From our experience, most of the causes that are described by developers in Dubai as Force Majeure are merely exceptional circumstances which shall not ascend to a Force Majeure.

Second: Implementation of Clause 15.3

We note that the wording of Clause 15.3 excludes all rights to damages compensation and cost only. However; in no event it excludes the refund of the amounts paid by the Buyer on the account of the purchase price of the Property. Please note that the refund of the amounts paid on the account of the purchase price in the event of a force majeure is stipulated by the provisions of the UAE Civil Code (Federal Law No. 5 of 1985) as follows:
Article 273 Clause 1 of the UAE Civil Code provides as follows

“If, in a mutual binding contract, an obligation is discharged because of impossibility of performance, all other counter obligations shall discharge and the contract shall then be automatically rescinded.”

Article 274 of the UAE Civil Code provides as follows

“When the contract is rescinded, the contracting parties shall be restored to the condition in which they were prior to the contract. Should that not be possible, a judgment for compensation shall be made.”

^^Nice post!

We have been discussing the over use of FM as a get out by the developer for some time. They want to believe that if they have to grant an extension of time to the contractor then this is a FM event. Most extensions of time(with costs) relate to redesigns or material changes which involve direct delay and/or disruption of the works. The developer appears now to be continually granting further extensions of time due, pressumable, to continuing delays and disruptions of the works. They view this as ongoing force majeure. Absolute nonsense!

Another reason that has been given for invoking FM is the length of time taken to obtain the necessary permits. This timescale is consistent with the readyness of the detail of the design, the workload of the authority and the complexity of the structure. All other towers of a similar complexity will have taken the same time to obtain approvals, the fact that SP changed their lead architect during the approvals stage would have contributed to further delays. As the start of works on site was delayed pending the necessary approvals, the developer claimed FM. The real reason for not making provision for this approval period was simply their lack of experience. Lack of knowledge, experience or other weakness is not a justifyable reason to claim FM.

A final reason being quoted for delays to construction is "the weather". Yes it's true, the weather in Dubai is unsafe for manual labour to be carried out in extreme heat so the law had to intervene and force contractors to stop works during the midday heat. This should be common sense, just as working at heights in high winds or placing concrete during torrential rain. But not in Dubai, being forced to look after the safety and welfare of your workforce is considered by developers as another FM event. A contractor could reasonably claim an extension of time for extreme weather but only if he can prove, by reference to historic data, that this is unusual for the time of year or district. Therefore, they have no case in Dubai for claims relating to hot weather working restrictions.

This all boils down to greed and sales tactics used to lure investors. Would you have bought in a supertall developement if you knew that it would take 6 years to get your keys and not the 3 years the salesman was reassuring you with? Then there was the compensation clauses for more comfort and piece of mind, would you have signed if they had advised you that compensation would only be paid if the contractor was the cause of the delay and that compensation would have to come from sueing the contractor for liquidated damages? Atleast another 5 years through the courts to sort that one out.

Developers gambled on the fact that in a rising market, people are less interested in delays and compensation. The profit they are making is generally enought to keep them sweet. The market crash is now going to undo alot of the less professional developers as it already has the complete amatures.

Interesting Times!

jeffers

September 30th, 2009, 08:56 PM

Thanks Caribarra for sharing that info, interesting read.

mackie1964

September 30th, 2009, 09:21 PM

^^As the law stands in Dubai today, they win every time and you have no chance :ohno:

RERA my REAR, I just want my keys or out of this mess asap

@talks;
It was from the Director of asset Management, Paul Brady. Got an email a few days back and then a recorded letter from Dubai today :cheers:

Morrismarina

September 30th, 2009, 09:39 PM

I'd love to disagree but, I have to be honest with you TB, your post is an excellent summing up of the FM claim. :okay:

Caribarra

September 30th, 2009, 11:52 PM

Yes - thank you for taking the time to put together an interesting message, it clearly shows that as we all know Select are a complete set of back stabbing ass holes. Telling lies to gain other peoples money to make a pretty nice salary, whilst telling investors to pay up or else.

I just can't wait until that day comes when we have got through this and they come back selling more sound investments/developments, I for one will be screaming from the rafters DON'T DO IT THEY ARE COMPLETE CROOKS AT BEST.

There will be enough on sites like these to make things pretty difficult with the current company name.

Thanks again...........

Poolview

October 1st, 2009, 01:07 PM

Poolview

October 1st, 2009, 01:34 PM

This could may only me looking from the Glass Half Full Point But the part that worries me is completion date has now been revised to July 2010 SUBJECT TO ANY FURTHER GOVERNMENTAL APPROVALS THAT MAY BE REQUIRED.UTILITY CONNECTIONS OR INDEED OTHER EVENTS BEOND OUR CONTROLThe way I read this is the completion date will not be July but since we have told you previously in the letter on Sept 2009 we will be able to blame further delays on anything we like.

Anyone with any other takes on this

Sid

October 1st, 2009, 08:51 PM

shaffar

October 2nd, 2009, 02:38 AM

The way I see it is that we're over the barrel. Sweet FA we can do now other than to wait... :ohno:

No idea what you'r talking about, you need to send an email rejecting the claim of FM that they now talk of as a given & requesting an exact event(s) they claim to have activated it.

Imre

October 2nd, 2009, 11:24 AM

02/October/2009

The Torch

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ry4lle.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/25ewuow.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/prwjl.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/6h2ooy.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/14sjnfm.jpg

Gorilla

October 2nd, 2009, 02:18 PM

Sid

October 2nd, 2009, 02:41 PM

No idea what you'r talking about, you need to send an email rejecting the claim of FM that they now talk of as a given & requesting an exact event(s) they claim to have activated it.

Ok- you do that and then please share the list of 'exact event(s)' with all of us.

btw: [I]Good Luck! :nuts:

thetorch

October 2nd, 2009, 03:37 PM

still on Floor 77!!

I see possible two reasons:

1) They are redesigning the top of the tower again and going through approval

2) They haven't paid their DCE bills and either DCE has stopped or is gloing slow as a result

I am hoping that this halt in floor level construction is due to the change in design from 2 to 3 bed apartments, possibly unforeseen supplier issues delivering a completely new set of components / part dimensions.

What is disappointing is the lack of information in the issued email and letter from SG, that opens up more questions, than it does answers, about this project, its completion and the reason for all these significant delays.

Why can they not simply be more honest, upfront and forthcoming about the challenges they clearly face, rather than repeatedly changing the project timeline goal posts without explanation, making themselves look stupid, lacking in project management skills and pissing off investors, their future customers?

I just don't get it. They surely must have some major problems, because I am pretty damn sure they want to complete this project asap - they want our completion money (less compensation of course!) :ohno:

The Torch

jeffers

October 2nd, 2009, 06:41 PM

I am hoping that this halt in floor level construction is due to the change in design from 2 to 3 bed apartments, possibly unforeseen supplier issues delivering a completely new set of components / part dimensions.

What is disappointing is the lack of information in the issued email and letter from SG, that opens up more questions, than it does answers, about this project, its completion and the reason for all these significant delays.

Why can they not simply be more honest, upfront and forthcoming about the challenges they clearly face, rather than repeatedly changing the project timeline goal posts without explanation, making themselves look stupid, lacking in project management skills and pissing off investors, their future customers?

I just don't get it. They surely must have some major problems, because I am pretty damn sure they want to complete this project asap - they want our completion money (less compensation of course!) :ohno:

The Torch

Floor change took place several floors ago, so we should rule this out.

Caribarra

October 2nd, 2009, 11:58 PM

OK so someone needs to try and get an answer from these crooks but as you all know, anything difficult to answer they simply do not answer.

So would it be a good idea to ask their solicitor, they seemed pretty quick with the letters when I put in my termination notice. By the way it was to tell me that they would take all my money if I didn’t withdraw it. Surprise surprise........

Let me know your thoughts on that one please, maybe you have already tried this.......

Thank you.

agod

October 5th, 2009, 12:47 AM

More glass has been added to the Marina view side, above the Mech floor, and I can see some more corner support posts, ready for the next floor to go on....blimey look at me getting all technical.

Alan

speedy333

October 5th, 2009, 06:36 AM

thetorch

October 5th, 2009, 09:50 PM

only an english man uses the word "blimey" lol no racism

... and the Northern version;

ey up!

Ben44

October 5th, 2009, 10:46 PM

Hi all, I am back... ''Ben44'' four years on from ''Ben40'' but still with no apartment.. Would love to see more internal pics if anyone gets on site.. I'm hopping to be over end of October and so will give it a try myself.

I have sent around a dozen emails to the Dubai Select people to find out my payment status and conformation of money sent ext but nothing received.. I did got an email and a recorded letter about the ''new'' ''surprise'' delays the same day they were decided so I guess there must be some one in the office?? again when I am over I will be paying their office a visit to find out for myself..

Joannides

October 6th, 2009, 09:46 AM

Anjam

October 6th, 2009, 01:33 PM

When would be the best time to legally challange the FM claims?

agod

October 6th, 2009, 01:48 PM

I drove past the Torch site last night just after 10.00pm and 'the lights were completely off and nobody was home!' (Surprise, surprise...) - I should add that Infinity was like a high wattage light bulb, buzzing with workers.

Before someone tells me to chill out/relax and that it will be all worthwhile once we get the keys as the views will be great, I want to quickly outline the situation as I see it.

- We’re waiting on a build where the developer, since claiming FM has no real incentive to complete this project in the shortest timeframe, seeing they have exonerated themselves.

-We keep on being provided updated yet unrealistic schedules with FM being continually cited as the reason for the delays.

- We haven’t been provided with detailed insight into the grounds for FM yet, and as has been pointed out on this thread, these FM claims are treated as 'fact', rather than 'opinion'.

- These delays are costing real money in the form of lost rental income. Even if you rented out for just AED120k p/a on a 2BR, thats lost income of £20,000 in your back pocket that you will never recover!!!

- Each time someone posts how delays are part and parcel of Dubai and how it will all be worth it in the end, it’s simply legitimizing SG's actions, as it’s sending out signals to them that the investor-base is understanding and forgiving of these delays, despite a contract being in place.

Has anyone actually been told the reason for the latest bout of delays? When a site has no workers on it, I’m sorry, but it cannot be down to FM, but down to controllable factors.

Hi Phil

How you doing, they where working last night at roof level, though I do agree it's hard to find anyone, just turn up at changeover time and count the buses, they hold about 50 to 60 persons, that will give you a clue as to how many are there...............I believe the core looks higher this morning, so that's probably where everyone has been, that could be the last push it is going to.

ALan

True Blue

October 6th, 2009, 01:50 PM

As I see it, SG have passed control of the project to DCE on a fixed price basis. DCE are not known for their 24hr working policies or over the top commitment to customer satisfaction. They will keep the night shift for catching up on any delays attributable to them.

If SG ask them to accelerate then DCE will provide a cost for doing so. As this would come off SG's top line profit then they won't sanction it.

The contractor will keep his claims team busy bombarding SG with mountains of paperwork detailing problems that are affecting progress. SG have to either employ a team of professionals to defend the claims or simply spend nothing and sign for the extensions of time. They then inform the investors that all the claims for extensions of time are legitimate and have to be granted. As this is not the contractors fault it must therefore be a force majeure situation.

Most investors have no experience of construction contracts so will fall for the lame interpretation of the cause of the delays.

Dubai_Steve

October 6th, 2009, 02:48 PM

So much for the 24hr accelerated construction program we were guaranteed a long time ago now.

Anjam

October 6th, 2009, 05:27 PM

So much for the 24hr accelerated construction program we were guaranteed a long time ago now.

^^ They have accelerated, just suffering from Turbo Lag !

thetorch

October 6th, 2009, 09:40 PM

I drove past the Torch site last night just after 10.00pm and 'the lights were completely off and nobody was home!' (Surprise, surprise...) - I should add that Infinity was like a high wattage light bulb, buzzing with workers.

Before someone tells me to chill out/relax and that it will be all worthwhile once we get the keys as the views will be great, I want to quickly outline the situation as I see it.

- We’re waiting on a build where the developer, since claiming FM has no real incentive to complete this project in the shortest timeframe, seeing they have exonerated themselves.

-We keep on being provided updated yet unrealistic schedules with FM being continually cited as the reason for the delays.

- We haven’t been provided with detailed insight into the grounds for FM yet, and as has been pointed out on this thread, these FM claims are treated as 'fact', rather than 'opinion'.

- These delays are costing real money in the form of lost rental income. Even if you rented out for just AED120k p/a on a 2BR, thats lost income of £20,000 in your back pocket that you will never recover!!!

- Each time someone posts how delays are part and parcel of Dubai and how it will all be worth it in the end, it’s simply legitimizing SG's actions, as it’s sending out signals to them that the investor-base is understanding and forgiving of these delays, despite a contract being in place.

Has anyone actually been told the reason for the latest bout of delays? When a site has no workers on it, I’m sorry, but it cannot be down to FM, but down to controllable factors.

Agree entirely. They have lost all need to complete this project in anything other than the cheapest way possible. It wouldn't surprise me if they have negotiated something with DCE to reduce the cost, based on DCE "fitting it in when they can".

Ey up - add cost of borrowing or lost interest to your lost income, unplanned holiday expenditure when you could be chilling in the Torch, lost opportunity once Infinity is completed before the Torch, etc, etc, etc.

We have been well and truly stuffed by SG - so much for loyalty and sticking with it.

I have asked for the reasoning for the additional delays and got no response, FYI.
I am not a happy bunny now - they are really taking the piss.

The Torch

charlie big potatoes

October 6th, 2009, 09:50 PM

You cannot compare lost opportunity once the Infinity is complete. The same owners or tenants would not be looking at these to towers.

charlie big potatoes

October 6th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Jeffers hows ya swelling man?

jeffers

October 6th, 2009, 10:48 PM

Jeffers hows ya swelling man?

It seems I over exagerated somewhat !!! Well at least the tattoist said so on getting half way through the digits and saying "there is no more room sir" Pain like you would never believe, I think I may resort to normal methods of storing passwords in future.:lol:

Gorilla

October 7th, 2009, 02:27 PM

True Blue

October 7th, 2009, 02:43 PM

I am a bit confused, the on the ground reports have been contradictory.

Is DCE on site and working (be it very very slow) or no work is being carried out at all?

despite what it may look like I think SG have an interest in finishing quicker for getting their hand on the final payment of the standard payment plan.

They are working but short days and nominal resources.

Consider the fact that the remaining work could have a value equivalent to 30% of the project cost but will only get them 10% payment.

The cash flow was positive for a while but from now it will be negative.

Mistermark

October 7th, 2009, 04:43 PM

I wonder whether the peaks and troughs in the pace of construction on The Torch are related to what's going on with other SG projects? For instance, handover of The Point, followed by Royal Oceanic.

Gorilla

October 7th, 2009, 07:28 PM

They are working but short days and nominal resources.

Consider the fact that the remaining work could have a value equivalent to 30% of the project cost but will only get them 10% payment.

The cash flow was positive for a while but from now it will be negative.

I guess we also have to consider that the Long term plan people pay and keeps bringing in money so the incentive to finish quickly even smaller for SG.

here where TB would say I told you so.......:ohno:

thetorch

October 8th, 2009, 12:28 AM

I guess we also have to consider that the Long term plan people pay and keeps bringing in money so the incentive to finish quickly even smaller for SG.

here where TB would say I told you so.......:ohno:
^^
Hit the nail on the head, hence the lack of momentum now, they need to have the LLP's bring cash into the bank, in order to remain cashflow positive.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make us cashflow positive in the slightest :ohno:

If that IS the case, and the project timescales are being driven by a financial spreadsheet, I would be less concerned and put it down to good financial management. Trouble is, if that is the case, they can't tell us that, as it would bring FM into dispute - yes?

ps500

October 8th, 2009, 01:00 AM

Consider the fact that the remaining work could have a value equivalent to 30% of the project cost but will only get them 10% payment.

The cash flow was positive for a while but from now it will be negative.

TB

Surely the whole point of an escrow account is to ensure that withdrawals are linked to construction progress thus incentivising the developer to construct as quickly as possible.

True Blue

October 8th, 2009, 12:29 PM

TB

Surely the whole point of an escrow account is to ensure that withdrawals are linked to construction progress thus incentivising the developer to construct as quickly as possible.

Sale and Purchase agreements are dated back in 2005 which I think is outwith the escrow laws.

I think the protection offered by escrow accounts are over rated anyway. In an escrow arrangement Emaar has to countersign the payment authorisation. If the contractor has submitted an application for payment fully detailed and the Quantity Surveyors agree to it, how much time is Emaar going to spend looking into it? They won't care if there is insufficient funds left to finish the project as long as the payments are in line with the content of the work carried out. Escrows only protect the investors from a sudden wipeout of the funds when the developer does a runner (lighthouse case)

AlMillion

October 9th, 2009, 11:12 AM

AltinD

October 9th, 2009, 11:21 AM

^^ Yes you did, but your grievance started because the tower would block the sea view from your penthouse, not because of Select, about whom nothing was known at the time.

Imre

October 9th, 2009, 11:59 AM

09/October/2009

The Torch

http://i36.tinypic.com/24cgwef.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/5z14ko.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/30nklte.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/28megdx.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/ei2vyb.jpg

True Blue

October 9th, 2009, 12:33 PM

Column shear wall steel erected on the 78th floor so seems floorplate 78 is now cast. PHEW!

Imre!! last pic is Infinity, are you on a back hander from SP?:lol:

FWIW

October 9th, 2009, 01:12 PM

I am not sure what investors expect when buying property from a company that actively lied in its marketing material. I've lost count of how many years ago I was on here warning people not to buy in this development (I think it must be nearly 5 years now).

The company structure has been set up specifically to minimise the liability for those that run the businesses and pull the strings. One development could go bust without affecting the others.

I sincerely hope that the developer does not end up writing to all owners saying 'you need to pay us $xx more if you want the apartment finished'.

Al,

I'm glad you are back! Why oh why didn't I heed your advise about these jokers and just stay clear of them? Luckily, I did take your worst case scenario into account and am financially and emotionally prepared for a long wait at Bay Central.

Thanks for your warnings.

Regards,

fwiw

Imre

October 9th, 2009, 01:18 PM

Column shear wall steel erected on the 78th floor so seems floorplate 78 is now cast. PHEW!

Imre!! last pic is Infinity, are you on a back hander from SP?:lol:

are you still using your ZX 81 computer???

I changed the pic at 11:28, your post was 11:33 :lol:

True Blue

October 9th, 2009, 01:58 PM

Nothing wrong with Sinclair computers, just off to work now in my C5.

Funny thing, I watch a program 2 nights ago which showed how the genius mind of Clive Sinclair was sold to the dumbest rich business mind of Alan M Sugar. Bought the rights to his name Sinclair and then fired him!:lol:

Dubai_Steve

October 9th, 2009, 06:03 PM

AlMillion being back on the forum is a good sign, probably means he is looking to invest again now for the next growth cycle :)

Morrismarina

October 9th, 2009, 09:50 PM

One development could go bust without affecting the others.

Is this not a good thing ?? :weird:

Surely we wouldn't want one development to have problems and pull all the others down with it ??

barry mcbarry

October 9th, 2009, 10:01 PM

I am not sure what investors expect when buying property from a company that actively lied in its marketing material. I've lost count of how many years ago I was on here warning people not to buy in this development (I think it must be nearly 5 years now).

The company structure has been set up specifically to minimise the liability for those that run the businesses and pull the strings. One development could go bust without affecting the others.

I sincerely hope that the developer does not end up writing to all owners saying 'you need to pay us $xx more if you want the apartment finished'.

didn't you used to be called al millions? what went wrong?:cheers::cheers:

AlMillion

October 10th, 2009, 01:17 AM

^^ Yes you did, but your grievance started because the tower would block the sea view from your penthouse, not because of Select, about whom nothing was known at the time.

You're entitled to your opinion - clearly you didn't read or chose to ignore the fact that I had a variety of people warning me about Dubai Select / Select Group or whatever they call themselves now, which led me to warn people on the forum. Along with their lies in marketing material, etc.. I didn't just make stuff up because I was worried about my views ... but I doubt you'd ever agree with anything I post on this forum. Impartial moderation at its best.

Trust me when I say I was far more worried/annoyed about Princess Tower.

Anyway, I have incompetent management at DS/SG to thank for the fact that the tower was never even close to ruining the views from the top of MH when I sold.

Dubai Steve is right ... I'm again looking at Dubai for investment.

AltinD

October 10th, 2009, 02:20 PM

^^ Why should I be impartial? I have no commercial interests, nor I personally know any of the forumers involved in the feud back then.

Plus I have never been positive about SP, SG or whatever ... I am even called a SP basher in other threads.

DAMAC

October 11th, 2009, 02:31 AM

Impressive, but it seems to me that less than 84 floors

al_111

October 11th, 2009, 05:55 AM

:uh::uh::uh::uh::uh::uh::uh::uh::uh:

Paya

October 11th, 2009, 10:50 AM

Hi

I am the owner of a apartment in The Torch and am totally frustrated by all the delays and deceptions originating from the Developer, Select Group. I am planning to consult a Solicitor in order to resolve the various issues such as ongoing payments, compensation and ensuring that quality of finish and fixtures is in accordance to the SPA.
I am also looking into the possibilities of bringing this matter to the attention of the press media in Dubai.
If anybody would like to join me, please email me at the following address:

alirezapaya@hotmail.com

With the Solicitors help, we could perhaps also prevent a disastrous handover of The Torch that has been witnessed by the owners of The Point.

Regards

Paya

Gorilla

October 11th, 2009, 03:04 PM

You're entitled to your opinion - clearly you didn't read or chose to ignore the fact that I had a variety of people warning me about Dubai Select / Select Group or whatever they call themselves now, which led me to warn people on the forum. Along with their lies in marketing material, etc.. I didn't just make stuff up because I was worried about my views ... but I doubt you'd ever agree with anything I post on this forum. Impartial moderation at its best

Al, I was around then, you may have been proved right now but at the time you lost credibility by being so perosnally upset with SG. I doubt you had the good of the Torch investors at heart :cheers:

AlMillion

October 12th, 2009, 01:20 AM

I love how everyone apart from me knows my reasons, emotions and motives behind posting on here! It is however nice that one person has publicly acknowledged the posts I made as useful ... several did privately at the time as well.

So what's the worst that can happen here now? Can owners not ask for their money back now that FM has been declared (afaik FM applies to both parties in a contract)?

Gorilla

October 12th, 2009, 10:34 AM

well you can ask for your money back, but getting any is another question! They obviousley have difficulty paying DCE and relying on quarterly payments from owners on long term plan to keep going. They are over-stretched on too many developments.....

agod

October 14th, 2009, 11:12 AM

Select own 2 Islands on the World, read the last paragraph.
Alan

http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/10/Pages/13102009/10142009_777a843a58de49ad929aafa1f9205ee1.aspx

Imre

October 14th, 2009, 11:17 AM

True Blue

October 14th, 2009, 02:48 PM

"Select Properties, in a joint venture with Dubai-based Select Group, bought its two islands in June last year for a reported Dh5.5bn. Some of the islands will be held by Nakheel for components of the master plan, development or future sales. Created off the coast of Dubai, the project is expected to add nearly 232 kilometres of new beachfront to Dubai's coastline."

2 islands for Dh5.5bn ???????? something wrong with this nr :)

Bad Investment at any price IMO.

The cost of developing infrastructure on these islands is going to be prohibitive not to mention cost of construction logistics. That is why sales of the islands were not as good as expected, some people did the feasability first.

agod

October 14th, 2009, 04:27 PM

Yeh, I agree, I suppose if your that rich and silly enough to buy there, you have your own fleet of helicopters to fly it all in, daft idea, thank God they have dropped the Universe, the Galaxy, the Black Hole, the Milky way, The southern Cross, The Bear, Etc, Etc, The mars bar, though that would have sold out, if they had built tunnels to each Island, that would have made more sense...........joined up thinking in Dubai, never happen.

Al

Imre

October 14th, 2009, 05:34 PM

14/October/2009

Princess Tower and The Torch

http://i34.tinypic.com/2rmp1ds.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2ut52ci.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2ak08yx.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/nb64oz.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/33y0zsz.jpg

Beppe786

October 15th, 2009, 12:10 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2606/4012839624_1426e74012_b.jpg

True Blue

October 15th, 2009, 11:56 PM

2 floors back propped shows a less han average rate of growth!

Imre

October 16th, 2009, 11:44 AM

16/October/2009

The Torch

http://i33.tinypic.com/4ggcg2.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/15rgin5.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/16ku93c.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/9ap8yd.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/s6re3l.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/345bxah.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2hnyss6.jpg

MOAF

October 16th, 2009, 12:11 PM

FAO:- Select group, why don't get a bloody move on and TOP OUT the tower soon as possible ,I am getting sick and tired of your games and manipulation regarding delays, FM, and construction realated excuses, F***ing get a a move on...

Yousuf27

October 16th, 2009, 02:12 PM

Sid

October 16th, 2009, 03:06 PM

May be its very close to being topped out??

How many floors is it meant to be? 82, 84 or 86?

If 82 (acording to URL below), then not much to go...?

http://www.selectproperty.com/invest/dubai/investment-property/the-torch/

Stephan23

October 16th, 2009, 03:38 PM

Great fast cladding !

Poolview

October 16th, 2009, 05:55 PM

Great fast cladding !

Well they have got to give the workers something to do because they are not pushing on the construction side at the moment.On the 11th Sept it was at floor 77 & was climbing at a floor every 5 to 7 days this is now almost 5 weeks on & we have only gone up 2 floors at the most :ohno: :nuts::nuts:
looks like at this speed top out late Dec / Jan :bash:

True Blue

October 16th, 2009, 11:42 PM

So they've poured 78 and the steelwork - without any shuttering - seems to be there for 79. So is this moving at all? Is there still progress upwards albeit at slow speed?

How many floors should be back-propped in times of good progress TB - presumably 4 or 5 at least??

28 days worth of construction(time taken for concrete to reach full strength), but minimum 2 floors to prevent overloading the 1 supporting floor. So if we do 1 floor a week we would expect to see 4 floors back propped.

ramzy

October 18th, 2009, 08:15 PM

Hi

Can anyone tell me what fees we are expected to pay on completion.

I have already paid the qoods registration fee when SP issued the letter requesting it last year. But would be great if someone knows what other costs ate expected, e.g. Title transfer fees.

Ben44

October 19th, 2009, 10:49 PM

Hi, has any one got any pics or links for internal pictures..

Ben44

October 19th, 2009, 10:50 PM

amplesou

October 19th, 2009, 11:22 PM

Calm down you lot !
I have been told that you will have your keys next june !
By the sales lady !
:nocrook:

Morrismarina

October 20th, 2009, 12:27 AM

Calm down you lot !
I have been told that you will have your keys next june !
By the sales lady !
:nocrook:

The question was about fees not keys !! :nuts:

Anjam

October 20th, 2009, 04:30 PM

The question was about fees not keys !! :nuts:

^^ Morrismarina > I think we will find that both the keys and fees are very much integral. We won't get one without giving the other :-)

Dubai_Steve

October 20th, 2009, 04:43 PM

Given previous experience with the Point, has anyone got an up to date intelligent guestimate as to when this should be rentable?

True Blue

October 20th, 2009, 04:51 PM

Tower Congestion.

Looks like owners of Botanica won't have any view of their sister project once Infinity is finished.

Quite a nice pic from my Cannon G10.:)

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/989/img0411vx.jpg

MANUTD

October 20th, 2009, 08:04 PM

Given previous experience with the Point, has anyone got an up to date intelligent guestimate as to when this should be rentable?

This time next year ?

Yousuf27

October 21st, 2009, 02:43 PM

True Blue

October 21st, 2009, 03:01 PM

Agreed TB that is a very cool pic. Thanks for posting it!

Did you take any note of activity levels around the much slowed down of late Torch site? Latest update from SP indicates lots of stuff we wouldn't be able to see going on inside. Just wondered if you got a any feel that that might be true by the amount of labour, deliveries, congestion etc around the site?

Sorry but no. I just glance up now and then when passing:)

Went specifically to Botanica and Bay Central sites to get a better feel for things there and take a few pics for the guys.

Ben44

October 21st, 2009, 08:53 PM

Got my SP update today. Nothing of much interest on the half page of ''updates'' and the hand over dates are listed as .....'''TBC""" shock horror..

Dubai_Steve

October 22nd, 2009, 04:31 PM

From the update...

Final tiling, plastering and paint works are now up to the 61st floor.

Installation of the internal partitions is also up to the 61st floor and the 1st fix MEP work has moved forwards, reaching the 72nd floor. The lift installation is still progressing as planned.

Externally, the aluminium cladding and balconies are now approximately 49% complete.

http://i34.tinypic.com/23tmv6a.png

Dubai_Steve

October 22nd, 2009, 04:34 PM

Does this mean Jul 2011 before all defects/snagging are guaranteed to be fixed ?!

Morrismarina

October 22nd, 2009, 11:00 PM

talks

October 22nd, 2009, 11:22 PM

Steve where did you obtain this info about the internal works ??

Since our last project update, finishing works are continuing
inline with the planned progression throughout the tower.
Final tiling, plastering and paint works are now up to the 61st
floor. Installation of the internal partitions is also up to the 61st
floor and the 1st fix MEP work has moved forwards, reaching
the 72nd floor. The lift installation is still progressing as
planned.
Externally, the aluminium cladding and balconies are now
approximately 49% complete.
You should also have recently received a letter from the
developer, Select Group, informing you of a delay to the
anticipated completion date. Whilst disappointing news,
Select Group is still 100% committed to the completion of the
project and this has been explained as an unavoidable delay
caused by various construction related issues. The new
timescales are reflected in the project construction milestones
below.
Progress Milestones
Design Start Finish
Concept original –
Approval by Authority –
Revised Concept –
Schematic –
Approval by SG –
Detailed Design –
Approval by Authority –
Tender Documentation –
Tender Start Finish
Tenders invited –
Tenders received –
Evaluation of Build Tenders –
Contract Awarded –
Construction Start Finish
Building permit Piling –
Building permit / Main works –
Piling –
Foundation –
Structure of Basements –
Structure of Podium –
Superstructure Dec 07 Dec 09
Building sealed Aug 08 Jan 10
Power on Mar 09 Feb 10
Civil Defence final inspection Feb 10 May 10
Final Certificate Jul 10 Jul 10
Post Construction Start Finish
Customer Orientations May 10 Jul 10
Move in date TBC TBC
Defect Liability Aug 10 Jul 11
Note: detail of construction progress and projected milestones is based on information
provided to us by the developer’s project management team. Whilst this information is
accurate at the time it is released to us and is reproduced in good faith as part of our general
project updates it is subject to change from time to time. Select Property is not responsible
for the completeness or accuracy of this information or any reliance you place on it.

This is the full one page from SP (without pictures),4 in total.The rest not worth reading,eg,metro etc.

True Blue

October 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM

The Disclaimer;.:laugh:
Note: detail of construction progress and projected milestones is based on information
provided to us by the developer’s project management team. Whilst this information is
accurate at the time it is released to us and is reproduced in good faith as part of our general
project updates it is subject to change from time to time. Select Property is not responsible
for the completeness or accuracy of this information or any reliance you place on it.

Imre

October 23rd, 2009, 12:59 PM

23/October/2009

The Torch

http://i36.tinypic.com/xdaxja.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/11tsdtx.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2z3vxcj.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/23uykhl.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/xm3nd1.jpg

Imre

October 23rd, 2009, 02:04 PM

23/October/2009

The Torch

http://i33.tinypic.com/5v8wad.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/10far9e.jpg

Sid

October 23rd, 2009, 02:14 PM

Imre- save your self the bother. Just copy and paste photo's from previous weeks :-)

This build isn't going anywhere fast!

talks

October 23rd, 2009, 02:31 PM

Imre- save your self the bother. Just copy and paste photo's from previous weeks :-)

This build isn't going anywhere fast!

Only one place fast!Thats to the ground.
The structure is a complete hazard and looks as if it's debis fallen from floors above.No person would ever pass that block work,that why the cladding seems to be moving well,what the eye don't see.

What's the shelf life of this building,10YEARS.

Poolview

October 23rd, 2009, 03:11 PM

Only one place fast!Thats to the ground.
The structure is a complete hazard and looks as if it's debis fallen from floors above.No person would ever pass that block work,that why the cladding seems to be moving well,what the eye don't see.

What's the shelf life of this building,10YEARS.

Now Now
look at the bright side More Windows:banana::banana:
and the nice people from Select Group have told us that the interior's are coming on nicely :banana::banana:What more could you ask for from the most Progressive Construction Company in Dubai at the moment the speed at which they are installing reebar is blinding at the moment they are going sooooo fast you miss them if you blink:nuts:

Yousuf27

October 24th, 2009, 12:10 AM

Only one place fast!Thats to the ground.
The structure is a complete hazard and looks as if it's debis fallen from floors above.No person would ever pass that block work,that why the cladding seems to be moving well,what the eye don't see.

What's the shelf life of this building,10YEARS.

If you invested here; - all you're doing is talking down the value of your own investment.

You may be frustrated but it isn't a good idea to add to your disappointment by throwing your money away. Best sell now; - you'll get back what you paid or there-abouts.

talks

October 24th, 2009, 05:40 PM

If you invested here; - all you're doing is talking down the value of your own investment.

You may be frustrated but it isn't a good idea to add to your disappointment by throwing your money away. Best sell now; - you'll get back what you paid or there-abouts.

If only I could find a buyer.

Anyway sorry everyone,but the pictures have been posted, to show us,what extend the developer and contractor will go to,"TO COMPLETE THIS DEVELOPMENT",famous words!.

Morrismarina

October 24th, 2009, 05:49 PM

If only I could find a buyer.

Anyway sorry everyone,but the pictures have been posted, to show us,what extend the developer and contractor will go to,"TO COMPLETE THIS DEVELOPMENT",famous words!.

Surprised you can't find a buyer. What are you selling and what's your asking price ??

mackie1964

October 24th, 2009, 07:10 PM

Surprised you can't find a buyer. What are you selling and what's your asking price ??

Why are you surprised Morris? I can't offload my last one in the Torch too, it has been on the market for months :bash:

@Imre;

Many thanks for your efforts Mate, you are a star. Please keep them coming :master:

Morrismarina

October 24th, 2009, 08:20 PM

My unit went fairly quickly but having said that it was priced right. If it's not selling then it's priced wrong.........simples !!

What unit you got Mackie and what are you asking for it, then I'll tell you whether I'm surprised or not. (I doubt you're willing to tell us though).

mackie1964

October 24th, 2009, 11:03 PM

talks

October 25th, 2009, 04:10 PM

Surprised you can't find a buyer. What are you selling and what's your asking price ??

Floor 16.
2 bed,@aed1100000+fees etc.Know anyone interested.Do you think this is to high a price.Give me your views.

Thanks Morris.

podium

October 25th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Floor 16.
2 bed,@aed1100000+fees etc.Know anyone interested.Do you think this is to high a price.Give me your views.

Thanks Morris.

Whats the ft sq?

Bling08

October 25th, 2009, 05:16 PM

Hi everyone,

Own a 1 Bed on the Torch. Just received a letter from Government of Dubai regarding non payment of the Land Department Fee.

Has anyone else received a similar letter?

Admittley we haven't paid this fee, as we thought we could pay after the development was finished.

Select do not seem to know anything about us receiving this notification, even though the letter states its request was on behalf of Select.

We are looking to pay this and I recall others stating that we could pay RERA or Land Department direct to avoid Select's 3,000 AED Fees.

Please advise. Any help would be appreciated, as quite confused!!

Kind regards

Bling08

Mistermark

October 25th, 2009, 06:31 PM

Floor 16.
2 bed,@aed1100000+fees etc.Know anyone interested.Do you think this is to high a price.Give me your views.

Thanks Morris.

I think this is too high, not because the price is wrong but because the project is incomplete, and there's still not much of a market for under-construction units. If you can, I'd recommend holding to completion, at which point it should be worth that price or more.

Morrismarina

October 25th, 2009, 07:02 PM

Floor 16.
2 bed,@aed1100000+fees etc.Know anyone interested.Do you think this is to high a price.Give me your views.

Thanks Morris.

Not sure whether you're Marina facing or not, so this could a little under or over original price, but if we take an average of the launch prices on floor 16 you're in the original price ball park here. If this is on SPP then I'd say the price is about right, but if it's not moving after 3 or 4 months then the market is saying it's over-priced.

Another factor is which agent you've placed it with ?? Your best chance IMO is with SP. Their commission is 5% but they have a network of agents (to which they pay 2%) and individual buyers, so you have fairly wide coverage with SP. You get what you pay for and I've found SP Resales team do a very good job. Suggest you place your unit with them if you're not already.

Assuming you're already with SP then you need to consider how quickly you want to get out - factors such as the delayed hand-over, your view of the future of the Dubai property market and your own financial position. If you bought with Sterling then you could take quite a hit on the price and still get your money back given the present exchange rate. IMO taking a Dirham loss but getting your money back in Sterling considering what's happened with the credit crunch, Dubai visa issues, potential over supply and slow developer has to be viewed as a decent proposition. But all depends how desperate you are to sell and whether you can afford to hold on until completion.

Yousuf27

October 25th, 2009, 07:04 PM

That sounds like good advice to me - hang to completion if you can.

Dubai_Steve

October 25th, 2009, 07:22 PM

talks

October 25th, 2009, 08:34 PM

Whats the ft sq?

SPA says 104sq/mts.

Mistermark

October 25th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Assuming completion is the end of next year. Is is best to sell then when lots of others will also be trying to sell in the torch or rent it out long term which should cover payments on the LPP and maintenance then wait. Problem with the later is that you have to then get your tennant out to sell on.

I think most people who have waited all that time for handover will rent or occupy rather than sell right away. And with rents strengthening I think a completed unit at the OP will be a very saleable proposition at that time.

arfie

October 25th, 2009, 10:52 PM

Are rents really strengthing though ? What is the going price for 1 and 2 beds with marina views ?

If the developer gets there act together surely handover can happen summer next year ?

Mistermark

October 25th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Are rents really strengthing though ? What is the going price for 1 and 2 beds with marina views ?

If the developer gets there act together surely handover can happen summer next year ?

I'd say AED 80k and 120k respectively, maybe a bit more for the really high floors.

There are many different views about when handover will take place - anywhere between summer 2010 and summer 2011.

agod

October 26th, 2009, 03:04 PM

bit of action today, concrete pump working, and filling the corner supports, for the next floor, and the core has gone up I think.............slow but getting there.

Alan

Imre

October 26th, 2009, 03:30 PM

26/October/2009

The Torch

http://i35.tinypic.com/351wuaw.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/262mrsg.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2nupsmv.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2ept5dz.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/x5xbg3.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/10hkl5t.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/6sqipk.jpg

charlie big potatoes

October 28th, 2009, 07:44 AM

http://i34.tinypic.com/20ro6l1.jpg

charlie big potatoes

October 28th, 2009, 07:49 AM

http://i38.tinypic.com/rhvnz9.jpg

Imre

October 28th, 2009, 04:21 PM

28/October/2009

The Torch

http://i34.tinypic.com/o0o02v.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/24mets8.jpg

True Blue

October 28th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Imre, can you do a pic from GC roof of Torch and OH:)

Imre

October 28th, 2009, 04:41 PM

yes, I will take tomorrow morning :)

MANUTD

October 28th, 2009, 06:50 PM

yes, I will take tomorrow morning :)

Hi IMRE -what floor are we on now ?

Imre

October 28th, 2009, 07:03 PM

I think the 79th started

Imre

October 29th, 2009, 07:44 AM

Imre, can you do a pic from GC roof of Torch and OH:)

you are not lucky, still The Torch is the highest but dont worry the Princess Tower already coming :)

29/October/2009

The Torch

http://i34.tinypic.com/153r1xl.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/dzj7m9.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/359l4c8.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2le74o9.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/jim5b8.jpg

Imre

October 30th, 2009, 01:38 PM

30/October/2009

The Torch

http://i38.tinypic.com/5jwu42.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2aj6ypf.jpg

Imre

October 30th, 2009, 03:45 PM

30/October/2009

Dubai Marina , tallest block

http://i36.tinypic.com/dxzjsw.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2q3y80m.jpg

charlie big potatoes

October 30th, 2009, 08:14 PM

http://i34.tinypic.com/mins4o.jpg

Saggy_Toad

November 3rd, 2009, 09:24 AM

Is it me...are prices starting to rise again???

DXBGO

November 3rd, 2009, 10:03 AM

Is it me...are prices starting to rise again???

could you clarify it please. where have you seen the prices rising.
:)

talks

November 3rd, 2009, 10:28 AM

could you clarify it please. where have you seen the prices rising.
:)

Yesterday's Arabian Business has an article stating prices have risen 9%from April.Today an article from Collier's quotes 7% rise from July to Sept.

DXBGO

November 3rd, 2009, 12:57 PM

Yesterday's Arabian Business has an article stating prices have risen 9%from April.Today an article from Collier's quotes 7% rise from July to Sept.

thanks for the info
:banana:

True Blue

November 3rd, 2009, 01:08 PM

^^Not much on the market at the moment. Quays and Park Island coming soon (7 towers) so the bargains will be around again.

Oh! and Zumurud also and possibly Wharf 1 in the spring. In fact a decent size list of towers will be ready before the Torch so keep your fingers crossed with me that the market is still buoyant in 2011.

Mistermark

November 3rd, 2009, 01:53 PM

Is it me...are prices starting to rise again???

I think it's true that both the prices of completed units and rental yields have been on a gradual upswing since the low point, which I'd say was June 2009.

MANUTD

November 3rd, 2009, 05:59 PM

Yesterday's Arabian Business has an article stating prices have risen 9%from April.Today an article from Collier's quotes 7% rise from July to Sept.

Marina mall Studios were 756k two weeks ago --now same owner has put up to 841k -think things are begining to turn but only selectively --quality will hold value and increase first

Imre

November 3rd, 2009, 08:16 PM

Marina mall Studios were 756k two weeks ago --now same owner has put up to 841k -think things are begining to turn but only selectively --quality will hold value and increase first

756k ???

I went to the launch , prices were around 1.5 million:)

MANUTD

November 3rd, 2009, 08:42 PM

756k ???

I went to the launch , prices were around 1.5 million:)

I thought cheap (BUT I GOT NO MONEY NOW ! will PM agent deatails --its higher now cheapest was 841K aed
and what an amazing building and what quality !!

Imre

November 4th, 2009, 02:19 PM

04/November/2009

Dubai Marina

http://i38.tinypic.com/nxulgg.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2hx2712.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/j0xoo2.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/4v226r.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/b7cpoz.jpg

Imre

November 6th, 2009, 12:22 PM

06/November/2009

The Torch

http://i38.tinypic.com/ras3tt.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/212wqao.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/24l0js8.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/ao1f7q.jpg

True Blue

November 6th, 2009, 01:36 PM

Cladding and glazing still progressing well but structure very slow, almost stopped.

True Blue

November 6th, 2009, 01:42 PM

Copied these from the marina thread, quite nice Imre:okay:.

http://i35.tinypic.com/902834.jpg

My favourite which shows The Torch with its head in the clouds.:)

http://i34.tinypic.com/332s8jr.jpg

Imre

November 6th, 2009, 02:07 PM

Cladding and glazing still progressing well but structure very slow, almost stopped.

Yes , very slow progress now but I think they want to finish the first section (between the podium and the mechanical floor) , I saw cladding staff there.

Gorilla

November 6th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Cladding and glazing still progressing well but structure very slow, almost stopped.

I have it from a good source that Torch construction staff gone over to Infinity to help catchup :cheers:

True Blue

November 6th, 2009, 02:27 PM

^^So they got odds of 100:1 for Infinity to finish first, put down a weeks wages and jumped ship:lol:

MANUTD

November 6th, 2009, 05:59 PM

Top out for XMAS ? (2009:lol::lol:)

Nice to see my floor is in now -- just hope PT stops rising now Tameer are in the Sh*t ?

High Times

November 6th, 2009, 06:42 PM

I have been on site at the Torch within the last few weeks and can report the following:

Structural progress of the tower core and floor slabs is slow and this will continue until the tower tops out. There is 1 more 3 bed floor and then a duplex floor for the penthouses. The reason for this primarily is a shift of manpower from the floor a week system of slab laying to catching up on the inside units and communal areas as well as glass cladding.

I think that DCE are arranging their labour force to complete areas of the building in line with their payment schedule. This appears to be 1st fixing and finishing apartments lower down the tower. I don’t know this for a fact but from the other FACTS I do know it makes perfect sense.

DCE nor Select Group do not have an interest or benefit of when the structure of the tower Tops Out. This is an SSC obsession and in the real world is totally irrelevant to both a developer and contractor, as long as other works are following up through the build.

Progress on the inside is going well. Most units up to about the 60th floor have floor tiles, interior walls and tiles, 1st fix electrics and plumbing at the least. Units up to about the 40th floor are even more advanced than this. Had a wonder around a few 2 beds in the 40’s and they are progressing well.

I don’t know how Select are going to play the handover game but it is perfectly feasible that more than half of the building will be complete and ready for handover by summer 2010. The top half of the tower will probably be ready by the end of 2010 edging into 2011.

If you are budgeting for rental income then it would be wise to make a contingency for payments until Sept 2011 in my opinion. My rational for this is that once the building gets officially handed over DCE will be on site for a further year to put things right. Snagging, repairs etc. It seems that DCE feel it is acceptable to use the 12 month guarantee period to correct defects that should not even be there. If we get full occupation of all areas with no builders on site by Spring 2011 the rental market will be dead until September anyway. Thats if there is a viable rental market at all. There are masses of units coming online in the next 2 years both in the Marina and other areas.

Personally I think this is a disgrace and no way to conduct business. Each unit owner will have their own limited leverage when it comes to handover and occupation or leasing. SPP investors have more to play with. LPP not so much unless they are well capitalised and are prepared for negotiation.

On a more general note The Torch (when complete), will be in an enviable location at the entrance to the Marina with excellent transport and infrastructure right on the doorstep. Tram, Metro, Bus, and Water Taxi. Still the big question is what is going to end up on the huge plot in front of the building. This was “the punt” as far as I was concerned and the longer it is empty the less likely it will be a big structure in my view.

Thanks for the pictures Imre. :cheers:

Without you this forum realy is like watching Sesame Street these days.

Dubai_Steve

November 6th, 2009, 08:50 PM

If you are budgeting for rental income then it would be wise to make a contingency for payments until Sept 2011 in my opinion.

Thanks for the interesting info above HT and welcome back.

Damn that is tough going. The torch is turning out to be a major liability for early investors.

arfie

November 6th, 2009, 09:05 PM

HT - Any chance the unit might be complete and handed over next summer ? Sep 2011 is really stretching it and become very hard for investors to manage especially in the current climate.

How is the finishing of the units ?

True Blue

November 6th, 2009, 09:10 PM

^^Thanks for the info High Times, just my tuppence worth;

I don't see it being possible that slipform squads or steelfixers have been redeployed to glazing or tiling jobs, although it is possible if quality counts for nothing.

You state that the first 40 floors are still not 100% complete which I would be worried about at this stage. There is clearly a vast amount of work outstanding on the next 40 floors so by deduction there is a long way to go.

A building this size also needs a lot of tweeking on the MEP works particularly the ventilation a/c and water supply. DEWA need to come in and install the power and water laterals before the main power can go on (learned this from Dorrabay). The final commissioning could take 6 months.

I think they are focusing on cladding etc in case we get the heavy rains again. They will need the building weather tight or all that plasterboard could be ruined. Would not have been such a problem with block and plaster walls but heavy rain flooding into the building could cause irreversable damage to many floors of exposed apartments.

I think you are about right with handover mid to late 2011.

arfie

November 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM

Poolview

November 6th, 2009, 09:35 PM

wrong thread

Dubai_Steve

November 6th, 2009, 09:41 PM

Those of us on LPP should negotiate payment terms as this is getting abit crazy.

Agree, another 8 payment installments until rental is now beyond a joke! That is more than another £31,000 to find for most 2 bed owners.

MANUTD

November 6th, 2009, 11:12 PM

MANUTD

November 6th, 2009, 11:13 PM

HT & TB so realistically no chance of handover summer 2010 ? Those of us on LPP should negotiate payment terms as this is getting abit crazy.

Good Luck you'll need it

arfie

November 6th, 2009, 11:28 PM

Time to get out of this project --HT--do you want another 3 bed ?:lol:

If handover is going to be mid 2011 then selling it is probably not a realistic option. I can't see them handing over the first 40 floors first and then the rest later.

malec

November 7th, 2009, 12:29 AM

Any news about the spire?

Maybe they moved some workers to 23 Marina. That's flying up these days.

Dubai_Steve

November 7th, 2009, 02:09 AM

If handover is going to be mid 2011 then selling it is probably not a realistic option. I can't see them handing over the first 40 floors first and then the rest later.

HT is not saying that handover might be as late as sept 2011. Instead that snagging might take up to 1 year before it is rentable. So it could be handed over end of summer 2010

thetorch

November 7th, 2009, 05:34 AM

HT is not saying that handover might be as late as sept 2011. Instead that snagging might take up to 1 year before it is rentable. So it could be handed over end of summer 2010

All I want really is for them to build the damn thing to a reasonable quality.
I am sat on a gem of a view (05 high up 50th floor), thanks to SP in Handforth Dean for advice in 2005 on this (wow is it so long ago!!).

Sigh - I'm so bored with the progress, however, having toured the inner working of The Torch in Feb this year, I know there is much to do. The outside might look like slow progress, but believe me, the inside is even slower.

I am banking and planning on early 2012 before I have a fully rentable apartment, snag free, for my upper floor apartment. You all need to prepare for this and sit back and wait in my opinion.

On the upside, it might have cost 1.3m AED, but in 10 years time (not that much more than we have had to wait for the apartment in the first place), I think I can double this at 2.6m AED, once general infrastructure is sorted, the marina becomes similar to any other city marina scape and people view Dubai as a real city to do business from.

Of course, this will not happen until

a) the Dubai Government revamps the way it allows businesses to operate from Dubai. At the moment, it is ridiculous with heavy payments to even get started, kick backs to Dubai (tax free - yer right) and lengthy paper work to boot (hint hint if they are reading this).

b) They put religion aside and relax the drinking laws, which will be instrumental for Western development, culture and day/night life (in my opinion).

Don't get me wrong, I am not for cultural change, simply integration (just as we embrace Muslem culture in the UK), however, we won't realize Western marina front city scape prices, unless Dubai Government understand and embrace Western desires and cultures. If they don't, Dubai will surely die and Dubai Marina will be a desert mirage, so they have no choice really - do or die? You can't have one rule for muslem countries, another for western christian countries, we need to act and embrace in harmony.

They are now at the financial mercy of Western culture, if it wasn't for Abu Dabi, due to this harmonic imbalance. When the propping up funding stops, which it will, then they have to start to listen to Western desires and change laws to suit, and then, and only then, will we get a return on this nightmare of an investment.

It's a big gamble for sure - put the pay off is big also long term, if Western culture gets its place in the Dubai political jigsaw.

The Torch

DxbPC

November 7th, 2009, 06:24 AM

http://i37.tinypic.com/10sdhsh.jpg

Imre

November 7th, 2009, 07:41 AM

Thanks for the pictures Imre. :cheers:

Without you this forum realy is like watching Sesame Street these days.

Thanks HT , I am waiting for the moment when you get the keys and I can check your balcony(s) :)

I still think it wont be happening before 2011.

:cheers:

High Times

November 7th, 2009, 10:47 AM

Thanks HT , I am waiting for the moment when you get the keys and I can check your balcony(s) :)

:cheers:

I look forward to sharing a few cold ones with you in the clouds.

HT is not saying that handover might be as late as sept 2011. Instead that snagging might take up to 1 year before it is rentable. So it could be handed over end of summer 2010

Just to clarify what i said as i think TB may have unintentionaly missrepresented me somewhat.

I DO think at least half of the tower units 1-40 will be ready for handover by mid 2010.
I DO think that the other half of the tower 40-80 could be ready for handover by end 2010.

Using the point as an example of DCE's customer care charter it is reasonable to assume that DCE will remain on site for all of 2011 putting things right and finishing of common areas, Pool, Barbecue deck, Shops, Reception etc.

The point officialy handed over in June (i think) and DCE are still there now and will be there for some time from what i saw of it so i am just assuming this will happen here.

For me as a tennant. I would not want to rent in a building swarming with builders fixing the builiding for a year after official handover. Having said that many people have rented appartments in the point with this same siituation.

In summary i am looking at it this way. There will be two handover dates.

Mid to end 2010 when units are handed over to owners - keys, final payments, unit inspections etc.

Mid to end 2011 when the building is free from builders and we can enjoy our white plastic pool furnature in peace.

malec

November 7th, 2009, 11:09 AM

Am just wondering, does anybody know what will happen with the spire? Will they still build it on top or will they scrap it like has happened to some towers already.

High Times

November 7th, 2009, 01:36 PM

^^

Malec,

It is still on the plans/drawings as per render, i saw in the site office recently.

Mistermark

November 7th, 2009, 03:50 PM

Am just wondering, does anybody know what will happen with the spire? Will they still build it on top or will they scrap it like has happened to some towers already.

I believe someone posted here a few weeks ago to say they knew of the company that was making it, that it was being constructed somewhere off site and that it was going to be pretty spectacular.

Imre

November 7th, 2009, 04:15 PM

07/November/2009

The Torch

http://i38.tinypic.com/2ecp1g0.jpg

MANUTD

November 7th, 2009, 06:01 PM

I believe someone posted here a few weeks ago to say they knew of the company that was making it, that it was being constructed somewhere off site and that it was going to be pretty spectacular.

Think it was someone taking the p#ss actually and saying they were flying it in from Jebel Ali port with twin Shinooks etc etc think it was a joke anyway ?

True Blue

November 7th, 2009, 09:05 PM

Think it was Morrismarina who said he knew the guy who was manufacturing it.

Morrismarina

November 8th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Think it was someone taking the p#ss actually and saying they were flying it in from Jebel Ali port with twin Shinooks etc etc think it was a joke anyway ?

Yeah I mentioned it a while back, sorry thought it was obvious it was a windup. Apologies if I mislead anybody.

Look at it this way, Alsam has already told us TT will only break even so he'll be looking anywhere to save costs, so my hunch is it won't happen.

Dubai_Steve

November 8th, 2009, 03:12 PM

I think HT is wrong in saying that it might take 1 year after completion and handover at the end of summer 2010 before units are rentable. Looking at the point thread for instance:

all 3 lifts are working but the left hand one is operated by labourers and constantly in use by them. Still a fair bit of making good and completion works to be carried out.

After experiencing a last minute handover of my 3 bed apartment on the last day of my stay in Dubai, it was leased out within 3 hours. I had a tenant even before I landed in Norway.

High Times

November 8th, 2009, 04:37 PM

I think HT is wrong in saying that it might take 1 year after completion and handover at the end of summer 2010 before units are rentable. Looking at the point thread for instance:

For me as a tennant. I would not want to rent in a building swarming with builders fixing the builiding for a year after official handover. Having said that many people have rented appartments in the point with this same siituation.

Steve,

For me personaly i would rather plan for the worst and hope for the best.

:cheers:

Dubai_Steve

November 8th, 2009, 06:12 PM

Yeah I mentioned it a while back, sorry thought it was obvious it was a windup. Apologies if I mislead anybody.

Look at it this way, Alsam has already told us TT will only break even so he'll be looking anywhere to save costs, so my hunch is it won't happen.

Depends if they can use it for advertising. Was'nt it mentioned that the LED display could show changing graphics (eg. Mars bars :), coke adds etc.) and/or a flame torch. Or maybe I was just dreaming sometime over the last long 5 years. :lol:

mackie1964

November 8th, 2009, 08:38 PM

It amazes me that people have been on here, for years reading and experiencing, visually the different phases of construction and handover of many buildings. Yet they are still prepared to accept and believe any shit that is posted or lies told by developers.

Topping and sealing a building ASAP is in no way a SSC phenomenon. It is a fundamental part of the process to both ensure the easing and basic operation of construction (think lift installation and operation as a minimum along many other functions, I haven’t got the time or the patience any more to explain) as well as protecting and increasing the life span of the building. Just think of how many years, big part of this structure has been exposed to those conditions.

Despite what many experienced civil engineers think about the minimum impact from the weather these days and considering how advanced concrete mixing is. Being right by the sea and the extreme temperature variants over a long period, coupled with the poor quality of people/processes of construction, will IMHO impact greatly on the life of this building (even if you take into consideration, air conditioning and cladding).

TB might disagree with me on this but I have seen a few buildings recently within that region that scared the **** out of me considering the age of the building. What do you think TB?

Forget about part handover of the building bollox, will not happen and they will not get certified based on sections. They will attempt to complete and hand over Sept. 10 and they will fail miserably due to not being ready, quality and people not accepting their units ….. guaranteed.

I hate football by the way and never want to see another match ... ever... well until the next untd match at least :)

High Times

November 8th, 2009, 09:07 PM

http://i37.tinypic.com/b6ys8w.jpg

:cheers:

Dubai_Steve

November 8th, 2009, 10:05 PM

Whats mackie on about, he sounds more and more like Bizzy these days.

mackie1964

November 8th, 2009, 11:46 PM

Whats mackie on about, he sounds more and more like Bizzy these days.

There is only one bizzy ......only one bizzy ...... There is only one bizzy......... only one biiiiiiiiiiizzy..........There is only one bizzy .:banana:

True Blue

November 9th, 2009, 01:49 AM

Mackie,

I agree that topping out is an key milestone in any project, more so where messy concrete is involved. Maybe I just don't have the energy to keep arguing any more.

I'm not so inclined to be worried about exposure as chlorate attack is more akin to bad weather near the sea as salt does not evaporate into the air with moisture so easily. Where I live you can smell the salty sea air on a hellish day.

Yes, striking formwork from columns and leaving them exposed to the intense sun and heat is ludicrous and it happens at the Torch all the time and many other project in Dubai. Incidently I notice Infinity is keeping up with the black paint which provides complete curing protection. Concrete that is not properly cured has reduced durability which ultimately reduces the life of the structure. It is difficult to determine if proper curing has taken place as you can spray invisible sealers on the concrete which contain the moisture, but some may have noticed the hessian sack cloth they wrapped around all the metro columns, that is a very obvious sign of proper curing in place.

I have a lot of experience in bridges and know how critical exposure is to the life of the structure but buildings are different and benefit from temperature/humidity controlled environments with minimal exposure to the elements, so in the scheme of things I don't think proximity to the sea or temperature is that big a factor. Unless you own a shoreline with a shit plaster finish on blockwork as the main weathering shell, then I might be worried about lifespan (coincidentally, I don't own a shoreline:) ).

Better stop now, getting too technical again and will end up getting shouted down.

Get the structure finished asap, get the tower pump and 1 crane off the structure and get focussed on the internals all in that sequence. HT's view is one of a SP seduced and loyal supporter whereas I am completely impartial........2011:)

C'mon the Infinity:laugh:

High Times

November 9th, 2009, 02:32 PM

HT's view is one of a SP seduced and loyal supporter whereas I am completely impartial........2011:)

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

True Blue

November 9th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Thanks to Scoot we now know why floor 77 took so long.

This is what they were meant to be doing;
http://www.windtowers.net/projects/windtower2/photos/2009-11/resources/images/large/091102-w2-02.jpg

This is what they were doing;
http://i33.tinypic.com/o0qq3b.jpg

See!! Don't trust HT, he was just covering up:laugh:

Have a look, it's hilarious....http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=433767&page=105

Ben44

November 9th, 2009, 11:03 PM

Any pictures of the inside - 3 bed apartments and balconies ext? Thanks.. If your not moaning when it will be finished your now moaning when it will fall down? Great stuff..

HappyLarry

November 10th, 2009, 12:21 AM

Dubai_Steve

November 10th, 2009, 01:55 AM

http://i38.tinypic.com/2pzxpxe.jpg

Looks like torch has topped out at lerv82/303m. worlds newest supertall.
23marina hot on its heels at 293m.
slowcoach princess is now 282m.

:banana:

Caoi1971

November 11th, 2009, 06:30 AM

Hi there, I saw some discussions about the life of the building and how it may or may not be affected by exposure to the elements. Can anyone advise what the lifespan of The Torch would be in normal circumstances ?

Thanks !
K

Dubai_Steve

November 11th, 2009, 02:53 PM

With proper maintenance I am sure it would last at least over 100 years. But TB is the one to ask about that so long as he does not give a biased answer as usual.

Ben44

November 11th, 2009, 10:45 PM

I just got a legal threat letter from DS today for being a little short on a payment for the Torch, although I have asked them around a dozen times via their ''top'' email address for the status of my account. No response from them off course and with the SP owners site under construction you can't even see their best guess of what you have paid.. Boy what a mess.. the days of customer services are long gone now. I used to get a polite phone call reminder or a civil email at least. I have the money and will pay but just makes me sick and feel like trying to get out of this and sell when they treat their customers like this, and after all we have had to put up with from them..

I now have SP writing to me about Pacific, this is after they said they (SP) don't deal with it any more and only deal with the Torch, then DS sending the legal letter about the Torch?? I'm confused to say the least. I would write to them again but they have never answered me before and I have lost faith of getting a response now.. They did call me once before with the offer to try to assist me, but only if I promised to stop posting my experiences as a customer on this web site?? Anyone want a 3 bed in the Touch or 2 bed in Pacific email me..