http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8940/dsc00687h.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/i/dsc00687h.jpg/)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4732/dsc00685gd.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/dsc00685gd.jpg/)

The three tower project in front of the Torch has been cancelled.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53193191&postcount=1032


That's good news, more reason to join my campaign to turn it into a park.............. so its stll owned by Emaar then?

A

I am all for a mini "wild wadi " in the front..legal advisirs at the DLD can tell us who the plot belongs to,

Alan, is this some kind of stich or is the Torch crane moving a site lift or something?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2uy0kzs.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2jbv9jm.jpg

It looks like the red concrete pump has now been moved from the top of the building. With only a few meters left to go on the roof feature maybe this will be constructed in steel ??

This is as good as topped out now for me (not for SSC though i appreciate as the spire is missing)

http://i39.tinypic.com/2mw5jcz.jpg

Was recently contacted by Select 0161, to inform us about the furniture packs which cost either £10,000 or £13,000. They obviously were fishing to find out our situation as well.

Adam Price, Sales Director at Select, quoted from 2006:
"The furniture packages will start from around £2000 per apartment and will be differentiated to meet individual needs. It would not be unrealistic to suggest that you could furnish your apartment locally in Dubai for around £3000."

Does anyone have any advice on getting it furnished, but keeping well clear of Select? And the same for property management?

Sorry but everytime I hear a Cheshire accent now I cringe, the only Cheshire people I know are Select and they reek of dishonesty. Can't wait to be well shot of them! And all those photos of the Torch, with the worst corner balconies in the world up to floor 26, totally different to the huge balconies in the plans Adam Price sent to us when we were buying.

You can buy everything you need here, plenty of furniture shops, and I reckon less than 12000 Dirhams will do a 2 bed luxuriously.

Plus most renters prefer an empty apartment.

Alan

I would say its only useful to furnish if you are planning holiday rentals or you plan to kit out luxuriously to stand out of the crowd to get higher long term rental rates.

19/March/2010

The Torch

http://i43.tinypic.com/250jolf.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/w7c47d.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/25zifzm.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/ff9vfk.jpg

Was recently contacted by Select 0161, to inform us about the furniture packs which cost either £10,000 or £13,000. They obviously were fishing to find out our situation as well.

Adam Price, Sales Director at Select, quoted from 2006:
"The furniture packages will start from around £2000 per apartment and will be differentiated to meet individual needs. It would not be unrealistic to suggest that you could furnish your apartment locally in Dubai for around £3000."

Does anyone have any advice on getting it furnished, but keeping well clear of Select? And the same for property management?

Sorry but everytime I hear a Cheshire accent now I cringe, the only Cheshire people I know are Select and they reek of dishonesty. Can't wait to be well shot of them! And all those photos of the Torch, with the worst corner balconies in the world up to floor 26, totally different to the huge balconies in the plans Adam Price sent to us when we were buying.

IKEA :banana:.

IKEA :banana:.

OK thanks everyone for the comments, but how can we break all ties with Select, e.g. property management, actually getting the keys etc (on LPP) ?

Is there an alternative property management company, or we can use any? are there issues in not using Select?

Alan, is this some kind of stich or is the Torch crane moving a site lift or something?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2uy0kzs.jpg

Sorry HT, not sure myself............I am looking forward to us all meeting soon.

Mackie see you at Easter? I pm'd you but got no reply.

A

Surely It's the spire of another building possibly MS.

Yeh, its the Avant tower Flag Pole.......

can someone tell me why there are never any workmen on the
photos posted on here ?:cheers:

Well, I mentioned that years ago, that I am going to call it the Magical Tower, due to it's lack of workmen, who I believe must eat Shredde wheat and Mars Bars, still it still seems to get built.............It's Magic.

Perhaps, this statement is too good to be true!!:banana:

'Property refunds to be issued under new Dubai law
United Arab Emirates: Monday, January 25 - 2010 at 12:40
.Under new laws planned in Dubai property investors will be eligible for refunds or replacement property if they fall victim to unscrupulous or failing developers, the National has reported. Developers also will face new financial penalties if the buildings they promise are not delivered on time, or to agreed specifications'.

Mackie see you at Easter? I pm'd you but got no reply.

A

Don God; Respect :bow:

Sorry, I am not sure about the date yet and it's looking like I will be in my own. I will email you before I fly once booked. See you soon.:cheers:

^^ That's old news.

What is more interesting, and relevent is the imminent application of decree No 6 of 2010. Apparantly it has been finalised and is awaiting publication in the Official Gazette.

The relevence could be significant in relation to SG trying to hold investors ransom by requesting an addendum to be signed waiving votes to property management decisions and making rental agreements more cumbersome.

The clauses that are relevent are.

The developer cannot refuse to transfer units if the purchaser has fulfilled his contractual obligations even if the purchaser owes other financial obligations not arising out of the particular sales contract.

A purchaser can request the courts to rescind a contract in the following cases:

1-if the developer refuses to deliver the contract for the unit without any justifiable reason.

2-if the developer significantly changes the specifications agreed in the contract;

If/when SG insist on an addendum to be signed and use your keys as leverage, just keep up your installments and ask for vacant posession on a weekly basis by e-mail and fax.

I have had a lawyer draft me a letter insisting on delivery and outlining a claim for compensation in lost rent from the day my unit is deemed 'fit for purpose' (the day service charges are invioced). It will be a fustrating waiting game but ultimately costly and damaging to SG even under UAE law. Contract deviation is something that is very anti Sharia and frowned upon in Muslim courts. So far SG have played the system well with the contracts but I am in no hurry to take delivery of my units and will quite happily keep paying the installments and have my day in court be it in 2 years 5, or 10.
This is all about principals for me and Mr Aslam is not the only one who has Wasta in Dubai.



For the purposes of the Regulations Negligence by a developer includes:
delay in taking handover of the plot and obtaining necessary approvals from the competent authorities without any reason;
sub-developer sells off plan without obtaining permission from the master developer;
delays in obtaining written approval for plans and designs;
delays in preparation of the project for actual construction works;
not providing the DLD with necessary information required to approve the project;
non registration of project with DLD;
non disclosure of the project's financial data to the DLD;
any other causes as deemed by the DLD.
Coincidentally items 1,3 and 4 were all used in the fake FM claim. :)

Don God; Respect :bow:

Sorry, I am not sure about the date yet and it's looking like I will be in my own. I will email you before I fly once booked. See you soon.:cheers:

BIG MAC............

We do except single supplement bookings, at no extra charge.

So she finally gave you the boot...........(secretly thinks Christ that will save ne a fortune in Fillet Steaks)


Alfonse

Capo Di Tutti Capi

Well, I mentioned that years ago, that I am going to call it the Magical Tower, due to it's lack of workmen, who I believe must eat Shredde wheat and Mars Bars, still it still seems to get built.............It's Magic.

Maybe its built by women !:lol:

:lol:

For the purposes of the Regulations Negligence by a developer includes:
delay in taking handover of the plot and obtaining necessary approvals from the competent authorities without any reason;
sub-developer sells off plan without obtaining permission from the master developer;
delays in obtaining written approval for plans and designs;
delays in preparation of the project for actual construction works;
not providing the DLD with necessary information required to approve the project;
non registration of project with DLD;
non disclosure of the project's financial data to the DLD;
any other causes as deemed by the DLD.
Coincidentally items 1,3 and 4 were all used in the fake FM claim. :)

Indeed - and we have those points in writing.

Morris whats wrong with the balcony upto 26? If you want to moan you need to get on the ones from 26 to 60 or so they are half the size and really not useable.

Morris whats wrong with the balcony upto 26? If you want to moan you need to get on the ones from 26 to 60 or so they are half the size and really not useable.

:weird: I've never mentioned anything about balconies Charlie ?? Please enlighten me to what I'm supposed to have said as I haven't got a clue ??

can someone tell me why there are never any workmen on the
photos posted on here ?:cheers:

I was in there yesterday and I reckon there was 800 to 1000 on site.

^^ wow must have been the first siting of the Torch workers, so they do exist :)

ps. I wish Morrismarina would stop going on about balconies all the time :lol:

:weird: I've never mentioned anything about balconies Charlie ?? Please enlighten me to what I'm supposed to have said as I haven't got a clue ??

Morris, I take that back, to much booze at Nasimi, what a blast. It was Scoob. I actually wasnt having a go anyway just pointing out that the lower 2 bed balcs are far superior than the higher split ones. Both are hindered with masses of concrete. I will post some pics later. Once again morris I stand corrected old son.

Morris, I take that back, to much booze at Nasimi, what a blast. It was Scoob. I actually wasnt having a go anyway just pointing out that the lower 2 bed balcs are far superior than the higher split ones. Both are hindered with masses of concrete. I will post some pics later. Once again morris I stand corrected old son.

No worries Charlie, must have been a great night !! :cheers:

ps. I wish Morrismarina would stop going on about balconies all the time :lol:

:lol:

CBP,
If you can could you please take some photos from the 01 aspect balconies.
Much appreciated .Thx in advance

^^

Yeah Charlie, that's some zoom your gonna need now, innit. :)

http://i39.tinypic.com/118lzdv.jpg

CBP,
If you can could you please take some photos from the 01 aspect balconies.
Much appreciated .Thx in advance

What floor 01 do you want?

http://i39.tinypic.com/27xl0xt.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/9abozo.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/r0e7f6.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/14yagas.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/15n57wi.jpg

Cheers CBP, all hands to the pool deck, good trip ??

What floor 01 do you want?

CBP, I have sent you a PM.

I was in there yesterday and I reckon there was 800 to 1000 on site.


thanks cbp for your reply ! in what capacity were you able to gain
access to the torch ? do you work there ? or are you a spy ?:lol:

I was a gynecologist in my earlier days and select are seeking my services to advise them on how to decorate the hallways through the letter boxes. I think they have mislaid several sets of keys.

I was in there yesterday and I reckon there was 800 to 1000 on site.


Count the buses, they hold about 50, (probably 70 in Dubai) you know how they like the be the biggest, so ten buses, 500 men.

What's this about Balconies, Charlie.

A.

Al, they are f...ing awfull. Very un inviting. Up to the 1st mech floor they are ok but it goes seriously wrong until you reach the 3 beds about 65 or so. There are pros and cons for the 2 beds which as you know are the majority of the tower. Below the mech floor you get a reasonable balcony, great shape lounge , poor effort of a kitchen, bit like a long desk. Above you get a shit balcony poor triangle shape lounge, dark difficult kitchen but there is the shower option with these and of course the height above the ground. Each to there own.....

Al, they are f...ing awfull. Very un inviting. Up to the 1st mech floor they are ok but it goes seriously wrong until you reach the 3 beds about 65 or so. There are pros and cons for the 2 beds which as you know are the majority of the tower. Below the mech floor you get a reasonable balcony, great shape lounge , poor effort of a kitchen, bit like a long desk. Above you get a shit balcony poor triangle shape lounge, dark difficult kitchen but there is the shower option with these and of course the height above the ground. Each to there own.....

CBP, in your opinion does the height above ground add much value if there is no view?

IMHO: If there is no view then being higher reduces the value. If there is some view or a very nice open view then it generally increases the value.

Personally I prefer the higher 2 beds as they are slightly larger (1278 sqft), have a kitchen and both a shower and a bath in the main bathroom, plus more storage space. Balcony space is not important to me (useful only for stepping out to see how hot it is). The wall to floor windows in the living room and bedrooms also give an impressive view over the marina.

http://i44.tinypic.com/24yb8m8.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/2h58c4z.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/20gbcia.jpg

Steve stepping out to see how hot it is is all you are going to do on your balcony. These tiles are 200x200 making that 700mm between the 2 walls. Dont all the appts have the same glazing to lounge and bedrooms? At least from this one has a great view mos boat.

http://i44.tinypic.com/m915ad.jpg

...

the good thing about that huge concrete column (balcony) on the side of the building for us with no view, we can put a good sized picture of whatever we want on there!!! can someone do us a good photoshop mock up example from charlies pic?

http://i44.tinypic.com/b80aih.jpg

Shaggy, this would be nice.

Hello Charlie
Got to say you post some super informative comments on here without 'guys like you' and your local knowledge telling many of us Torch investors "like it is" I am sure most on here appreciate your no nonsense truthful contributions, even if it is not what some want to hear! 'It Is what it is' Did you manage to get a photo of the 2 bed balconies below the first Mech floor which you say are half reasonable, it would be good if you can post one Cheers Keep up the great info CBP

http://i44.tinypic.com/ibc3zr.jpg

Thanks. Some just mask the truth.This is the best I can do re balconies, I am more into the views. Those on the reve corner you need to be above 55 for clear it and those on the front infinity corner you need to be above 75 to clear that one next to the harbour hotel. The building is all snagged up to about 20 and in far better state than when we moved in to the point.

http://i44.tinypic.com/m915ad.jpg

Dont like the big block, but overall much bigger than I thought it would be.

^^^^ if that's the size of the balcony to 2 beds, how the F**k are they gonna get 16 sq m to the 3 beds :ohno:

CBP, did you get any pics from 75th, as you say you will need to be at least that to see over Emirates Crown ??? :cheers:

CBP, What us the interior finishing and quality like?
Tiling, kitchens etc

the good thing about that huge concrete column (balcony) on the side of the building for us with no view, we can put a good sized picture of whatever we want on there!!! can someone do us a good photoshop mock up example from charlies pic?



Actually, if you put mirrors over all balcony walls and the column - including reflecting foil on your windows - you will end up with a fantastic panoramic view!!!! :nocrook:

..

^^That's the scary thing about balconies on supertalls, the stupid things people could do with them that could result in serious injury or death to passers by.

Saw a nice render of a balcony on Princess tower, do people realise that the higher you go the windier it is and the more constant the wind is. That will make most balconies unusable as relaxing space to enjoy a coffee. A bit like trying to take a drink with your head stuck out of a car window doing 40.

The danger comes when you start placing the patio furniture and sunbrellas on the balcony only to find them gone the next morning and a car crash a mile up the road with a patio table, just like yours, sticking out the car windscreen.

Its windy on the 27th, but everyone seems to like to hang there washing out, on there balconies, is there enough room for that?

A.

Not sure you will want HighTimes's pants floating down from his 3 bed in the Torch into your balcony Alan. I think hanging washing in the balconies is against the Torch rules.

^^That's the scary thing about balconies on supertalls, the stupid things people could do with them that could result in serious injury or death to passers by.

Saw a nice render of a balcony on Princess tower, do people realise that the higher you go the windier it is and the more constant the wind is. That will make most balconies unusable as relaxing space to enjoy a coffee. A bit like trying to take a drink with your head stuck out of a car window doing 40.

The danger comes when you start placing the patio furniture and sunbrellas on the balcony only to find them gone the next morning and a car crash a mile up the road with a patio table, just like yours, sticking out the car windscreen.

I agree entirely TB. As the Owner of a mid height 2 bed in TT - fortunately - I think balconies are highly overrated!!:lol:

I think those who have never lived in the Middle East through Summer let alone lived high up in a Supertall will soon come to agree with these points of view, and be pleased if they have extra sq m inside - rather than outside - their apartments!

I would concede that Sunrise or Sunset on a calm day in the cooler months could be a different story though! Whatever floats your boat!

http://i43.tinypic.com/118hoh4.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/10huh54.jpg

Some great pics Charlie, thankyou. Its weird that after such a long wait we are all nearly in. I've managed to get an 'in principle' approval for a mortgage with HSBC upon completion. I'm hoping this will enable a side step for the contract amendments or is it a case we don't get keys until we sign?

^^ Was that HSBC UK or UAE? Don't need to sign if you don't owe Select any cash. Otherwise you will have to get your lawyers on them and possibly the courts to get your keys without signing.

Charlie,

Big thanks for all your recent updates.

Is this pic taken from the highest 1 bed sea facing unit, floor 79?

Cheers.


http://i43.tinypic.com/118hoh4.jpg

Hi Guys,
I have been trying to get a settlement figure for my 2 bed torch, LPP, for 2 weeks now, I have sent 5 emails and 2 phone calls, i have had responses including one from paul brady, saying will get back to me, then they don't.
Has anyone else had this trouble, how hard can it be to tell me what i owe them.
I expected an answer within 24hrs, what's the benefit of delaying?
Regards

^^They're just stalling you while they get the green light from Rera to repo your unit:lol:

I thought the settlement figure table is in your contact?

Hi Guys,
I have been trying to get a settlement figure for my 2 bed torch, LPP, for 2 weeks now, I have sent 5 emails and 2 phone calls, i have had responses including one from paul brady, saying will get back to me, then they don't.
Has anyone else had this trouble, how hard can it be to tell me what i owe them.
I expected an answer within 24hrs, what's the benefit of delaying?
Regards

Do me a favour, contact Select Manchester and tell them the trouble you're having about zero response to your requests. I've been waiting 3 weeks and sent 4 emails and finally contacted Select Manchester who will tell you they are only the sales and marketing arm but they will forward the complaint. The more people that do this and show the UK that their customer service from Dubai is less than zero, the better

I can't imagine how they will be able to deal with the handover in Dubai. Sounds like they have only 1 or 2 people working in Dubai who ignore all their emails. How many staff do Select Property Dubai have? Has anyone visited their offices recently?

totally agree. i have been trying to contact them for 1 week and no one answer the telephone nor my emails. settlement figures are on the contract. having seen all your comments on high units' balconies, i guess jacuzzis are out of question.

totally agree. i have been trying to contact them for 1 week and no one answer the telephone nor my emails. settlement figures are on the contract. having seen all your comments on high units' balconies, i guess jacuzzis are out of question.

I've recently set out in a room what 16 sq m looks like and from what the pics show these 3 bed balconies will be extremely short of what's in the contract, It will be a soak in the bath instead of a relaxing hot tube. :ohno:

Not sure you will want HighTimes's pants floating down from his 3 bed in the Torch into your balcony Alan. I think hanging washing in the balconies is against the Torch rules.

No, I dont mean the hang across the balcony, Naples style.
I mean the open out clothes horse variety, of which every balcony has one, it must be due to the Washer, not being a tumble dryer.

A.

I've recently set out in a room what 16 sq m looks like and from what the pics show these 3 bed balconies will be extremely short of what's in the contract, It will be a soak in the bath instead of a relaxing hot tube. :ohno:

I will post you a 3 bed balcony on monday.

^^ They must be small to fit in the post :D

I thought the settlement figure table is in your contact?

Thanks steve,
yes it is, just wanted them to confirm, then started getting annoyed.
cheers

^^ Was that HSBC UK or UAE? Don't need to sign if you don't owe Select any cash. Otherwise you will have to get your lawyers on them and possibly the courts to get your keys without signing.

HSBC UK Premier account linked to a UAE account.very long winded but just having options is a major relief.

^^ They must be small to fit in the post :D

No Steve, I just have a large letter box !!!! :cheers:

http://gigapan.org/gigapans/45839/
:cheers:

Where is "Joannides"?
Whilst Imre is away, photos please even if they are from your pad on the palm. Thx

http://gigapan.org/gigapans/45839/
:cheers:

cool pic!

http://i44.tinypic.com/34tdgl3.jpg

3 bed very high floor.

Cheers CBP, amazing view from that side. Getting up that high did you have to go in the external lift ??

Man UTD, have sent PM to you.

http://i44.tinypic.com/34tdgl3.jpg

3 bed very high floor.

http://gigapan.org/gigapans/45839/

Click on the second snapshot ("Torch. For cbp.").

Is that the one? :)

http://i41.tinypic.com/167v9ja.jpg

Do you have any photos of the marina view from the 06 marina facing 2 bed apartments?

What floor?

Around 40th floor 2 bed 06 marina facing, marina view angle if poss Charlie.

http://i41.tinypic.com/23vgen5.jpg

This is an 06 46th. Shame about the windows. 11834 is an 07.

I do so hope you are above 39 Steve........

http://i40.tinypic.com/2yzhf2r.jpg

I do so hope you are above 39 Steve........

Thanks! Gives me a great idea of the view. Why do you hope I am above 39 exactly?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2wbt18z.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/34tdgl3.jpg

3 bed very high floor.

Will be Nice having a bit of brekke there mate !!

Those slabs might work out nicely as wind breakers and for privacy.

Will be Nice having a bit of brekke there mate !!

Just don't knock over your boiled egg, the weight of that falling over that height could kill !!!!!! luckily I don't like eggs ... :lol:

Those slabs might work out nicely as wind breakers and for privacy.

naughty you :lol:

naughty you :lol:

Yeah, a public confession that you suffer from bad wind Steve !! :cheers:

Where is "Joannides"?
Whilst Imre is away, photos please even if they are from your pad on the palm. Thx

I'm still here, Tosh, just lost my interest in the Torch.

CBP and others seem to be doing a great job on the photos, but i will try to take some tomrorow of the exterior and post them.

I'm still here, Tosh, just lost my interest in the Torch.

CBP and others seem to be doing a great job on the photos, but i will try to take some tomrorow of the exterior and post them.

Welcome back! Lost interest?? Why if I may ask? Soon the Torch will glow in the whole of the Marina!

Those slabs might work out nicely as wind breakers and for privacy.

I thought that too !

Dear all,

You may wish to view the Gulf News website re an investor in Botanica who is in dispute with Select.
The comments from other readers are interesting too, particular the one reported to be from a sub-contractor working on the site.

Can you post the link please, I cant find it.

Sorry I don't know how to post the link but go to gulfnews.com and scroll down to the property section.

Sorry I don't know how to post the link but go to gulfnews.com and scroll down to the property section.
Just copy and paste what's in your browser whilst reading the page, I can see nothing on the website !

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-real-estate-investor-says-she-s-been-cheated-1.602475

http://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-real-estate-investor-says-she-s-been-cheated-1.602475

^^That's not it, looks like they got Clyde and Co onto the case and got it removed!

Dubai real estate investor says she's been cheated
Investor finds her purchase contract for a one-bedroom unit cancelled after paying nearly Dh500,000

By Jay B. Hilotin, Chief Reporter
Published: 00:00 March 25, 2010
Reader comments (17)

Dimple Bhatia, who paid almost half a million dirhams for a one-bedroom unit in Botanica Tower at the Dubai Marina, does not know how to get her money backImage Credit: xpress/abdel-krim kalloucheDUBAI : An accountant fears losing half a million dirhams she had paid for a Marina tower unit after she skipped three payments while negotiating for a discount from the developer.

Costly penalty

Dimple Bhatia, 29, a US-educated Indian raised in Dubai, said because the construction and hand-over of Botanica Tower was facing delays, she negotiated in August 2009 for a reduced price or payment scheme.

The developer, Select Group, cancelled her contract despite her offers to pay the unpaid instalments.

Till then, she had already paid Dh497,259 to Select Group for the one-bedroom unit, representing 36 per cent of the cash value of the Dh1.38 million property (or 24 per cent of the purchase price of Dh2.07 million based on the payment plan)

Bhatia had bought the unit at Dh2,654 per square foot at the height of the property boom.

Dubai's real estate market saw a freefall for 18 months with property prices falling over 50 per cent from their mid-2008 highs.

Bhatia now wants to withdraw the money. "I have asked for a deferred payment plan or payment relaxation — since Botanica is expected to be delayed by a year-and-a-half," she said.

She said she is clueless how to get her money back. "They cheated me. At one end, they were negotiating and at another end, they cancelled my contract."

Legally speaking

A recent report by Select Group said the core of the 36-storey Botanica Tower was already three floors above ground, with construction in full swing.

Soheyla Dad, Select Group's lawyer, said Bhatia has been in default since June 2009 and sufficient reminders were sent to her by courier and e-mail.

"The purchaser has never offered to settle her account to date," Dad said.

"Unfortunately, the negotiations (if any) proved to be unsuccessful for one reason or another - bearing in mind we are not legally obliged to negotiate where a purchaser is in default of their contractual terms."

Dear all,

You may wish to view the Gulf News website re an investor in The Torch who is in dispute with Select.
The comments from other readers are interesting too, particular the one reported to be from a sub-contractor working on the site.

^^:dunno: I give up!

i found it by typing 'select group' on their search engine .

^^:dunno: I give up!


http://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-real-estate-investor-says-she-s-been-cheated-1.602475?showComments=true&pageNumber=2

^^I saw it but it is not true.

My company is one of the sub-contractors on this project, and we know for a fact that it has been placed on hold with no intentions to revamp work anytime soon.


The work has not stopped indefinately. Similar post placed on Infinity thread which is another project going at full steam. Where do these people come from, Mars?

I have mixed feelings about this one. I think it's unrealistic to expect a developer to reduce the price of a property after the buyer has signed a binding agreement to purchase it at that figure - it's not as if any of us would offer to pay the developer more than the agreed price if the market had gone up. That said, I think it's important for developers to compensate buyers, or allow them into completed projects on the original terms, when they deliver properties late, though this should start when the contractual completion date has been missed, which isn't yet the case with Botanica.

According to the purchaser's comment on the Gulf News story, she contracted at something like AED 2650/sq ft. At that price, I think walking away and kissing goodbye to the money she has put into it to date is a good strategy, painful though it undoubtedly must feel.

^^I agree with that sentiment. If she was allowed to complete and handover she could have a bigger liability/loss if she needed to sell. Getting out Scot free might be an option that would suit some buyers without being hounded for the rest of the cash for something that is in serious negative equity.

If she bought something handing over now, like say Park island 1 bed similar size. It would only cost her no more than 1million, add the lost 0.5million and she starts renting straight away for 75k. She's almost back to where she started, but has a tangible asset with no risk of non completion. She could also sell at any time, something she could not do with an off plan.

I have mixed feelings about this one. I think it's unrealistic to expect a developer to reduce the price of a property after the buyer has signed a binding agreement to purchase it at that figure - it's not as if any of us would offer to pay the developer more than the agreed price if the market had gone up. That said, I think it's important for developers to compensate buyers, or allow them into completed projects on the original terms, when they deliver properties late, though this should start when the contractual completion date has been missed, which isn't yet the case with Botanica.

According to the purchaser's comment on the Gulf News story, she contracted at something like AED 2650/sq ft. At that price, I think walking away and kissing goodbye to the money she has put into it to date is a good strategy, painful though it undoubtedly must feel.



And think of herself lucky to be able to walk away.

At home a developer won a case against 25 investor who each had only app(£25000) deposit paid on apartments which where first valued at £250,000.Each investor wanted to walk away,but the court said they must complete at the contract price.

The developer then issued some with bankrupt notices,forcing some to sell their own homes as the banks would no longer offer finance.

^^That's not it, looks like they got Clyde and Co onto the case and got it removed!


Clyde & Co, are Selects Lawyers.

A

^^I saw it but it is not true.


The work has not stopped indefinately. Similar post placed on Infinity thread which is another project going at full steam. Where do these people come from, Mars?


No Zog, I bet she got her mate's to comment on her downfall.

I can report that this moment in time, Botanica core is at the 8th floor, or there abouts, (it is dark out there) but it looks as though there is a pour tonight, Ifinity is about on the 63rd floor, and the Torch as usual, is in darkness.
so I can reliable inform that idiot that they seem still to be working on it, unlike the Metro and Tram, where they have disappeared.

I tend to agree with the royalty on these threads, if you sign a contract, you need to be a grown up about it, and stick to your side of the deal, theres to many amatuer's out there, sit around a dinner table, and hear there mates earning a few quid at property, then decide to have a go, at the wrong time and wrong place, and come unstuck.

I blame the stupid TV shows that where around, telling how easy it was to earn a hundred grand overnight, and even your local librarian was at it.

I remember in the last downturn in the 90's, a group tried to sue Barclays Bank for lending them the cash, after they bought some daft development in some far off place...........after that they tightened up, and no one could get any money any more.

Al

And think of herself lucky to be able to walk away.

At home a developer won a case against 25 investor who each had only app(£25000) deposit paid on apartments which where first valued at £250,000.Each investor wanted to walk away,but the court said they must complete at the contract price.

The developer then issued some with bankrupt notices,forcing some to sell their own homes as the banks would no longer offer finance.

Now you come to mention it, I actually feel sorry for the developer in this case (something I never expected to write...). OK, materials and labour costs have come down since Botanica was marketed, but I doubt by the 50 percent the purchaser claims, but the land will probably have been bought at or close to the peak, so the developer ought to be able to count on the purchaser to go through with the deal on the basis laid out in the contract.

Perhaps, for once, the uselessness of the legal system in Dubai has favoured a purchaser rather than the developer. OK, the developer has kept the sum paid to date, but the purchaser has walked away without further liability. As Talks has pointed out, in countries where the legal system works (the UK included), she would have been facing a big bill, and the developer would not be out of pocket.

Now you come to mention it, I actually feel sorry for the developer in this case (something I never expected to write...). OK, materials and labour costs have come down since Botanica was marketed, but I doubt by the 50 percent the purchaser claims, but the land will probably have been bought at or close to the peak, so the developer ought to be able to count on the purchaser to go through with the deal on the basis laid out in the contract.

Perhaps, for once, the uselessness of the legal system in Dubai has favoured a purchaser rather than the developer. OK, the developer has kept the sum paid to date, but the purchaser has walked away without further liability. As Talks has pointed out, in countries where the legal system works (the UK included), she would have been facing a big bill, and the developer would not be out of pocket.

I was a shy about saying "What's her problem" - for fear of being shot down. I see though that I'm not alone. I agree there is a lot of naivity out there amongst people who walked into their investments - some with rose tinted specs, and others with their eyes completely closed. She is a lucky lady to get to walk away only losing what she's paid so far and with no further liability. The expectation of so many investors to be able to renegotiate prices and contracts due to a falling market is bizarre! Which bit did they not understand in the oft trotted out "HIGH RISK, High Reward" quote which was always present in those popular amateur property investor TV shows; - presumably the first bit!

i dont agree with the above comments. in fact, if you buy offplan in south america or south east asia and for whatever circumstances you decide to terminate, the developer usually keeps only up to 30% of all money paid to date.

Under the select LPP contracts, similar to a mortgage, if you miss 1 payment then they can reposses everything even if you have been paying for 12 years or so on the LPP.

i dont agree with the above comments. in fact, if you buy offplan in south america or south east asia and for whatever circumstances you decide to terminate, the developer usually keeps only up to 30% of all money paid to date.

Of the eleven off plan's I have been involved with over the years, in the USA, UK, and Dubai, most where 5 or 10% down, and the balance when complete, only here is it pay as you go, and the majority of cash up front, before they have even built it.

A.

Under the select LPP contracts, similar to a mortgage, if you miss 1 payment then they can reposses everything even if you have been paying for 12 years or so on the LPP.

Of course at the time Steve, that was a good deal, I think it worked out at 7% when the banks where asking more, we all had equity in our UK homes, exchange rate was 7.4 to the pound, and the world was rosy................then the shit hit the fan, and the rest is in Wikipeadia.

A.

Al where is Wikipeadia? Can you get there without changing lifts?

I was a shy about saying "What's her problem" - for fear of being shot down. I see though that I'm not alone. I agree there is a lot of naivity out there amongst people who walked into their investments - some with rose tinted specs, and others with their eyes completely closed. She is a lucky lady to get to walk away only losing what she's paid so far and with no further liability. The expectation of so many investors to be able to renegotiate prices and contracts due to a falling market is bizarre! Which bit did they not understand in the oft trotted out "HIGH RISK, High Reward" quote which was always present in those popular amateur property investor TV shows; - presumably the first bit!

What I don't understand, is that everyone seems to forget that slave labour is used to build The Torch, and the human misery. What is it, $7 a day?

DCE guys aint worth 7 bucks a day, but you are right, I would be miserable working with them day in day out.

What I don't understand, is that everyone seems to forget that slave labour is used to build The Torch, and the human misery. What is it, $7 a day?

All very true.
"Who's to blame"
1.Is it the developer.
2.Is it those who allow it to happen.

In the uk there is a minimum wage per hour set by government.Heavy fine's if you pay less,and get reported.

Of the eleven off plan's I have been involved with over the years, in the USA, UK, and Dubai, most where 5 or 10% down, and the balance when complete, only here is it pay as you go, and the majority of cash up front, before they have even built it.

A.

This is the norm for the UK. Developers are now having to pursue buyers who signed missives for new homes and who now think they can walk away just losing their deposit. Developers are suing for the negative equity margin and remarketing costs, even pushing people to personal bankruptcy. And people moan about the lack of protection of a legal framework for purchasing real estate in Dubai:lol:

Christ, have you heard the latest news flashes !!!

The Palm and Dubai Marina is under threat of sinking in the next 2 years.

Apparently, a large part of Antarctica broke away this week, nearly the size of Spain.

Instead of the usual floating nearby and getting lodged, this huge mega tonne block of ice, nearly 1/2 mile thick, was on the edge of the continent and has been dragged up into the main gulf flow and is expected to melt completely over the next 2 years.

The resultant rise in sea level will be approx. 10m, putting both the Palm and lower floors of property around the marina under flooding threat and could be under 5m of water before construction is completed.

What the hell do we do now, if we cannot even get into our apartments??

Is this the end of the line for Dubai Marina completely:ohno:

The Torch

What I don't understand, is that everyone seems to forget that slave labour is used to build The Torch, and the human misery. What is it, $7 a day?

I think people are forgetting that the workers had a choice to come here and work, nobody was forced. And $7 a day is still better than $2 a day working on a farm back home. Why do you think none of them want to go back.

Christ, have you heard the latest news flashes !!!

The Palm and Dubai Marina is under threat of sinking in the next 2 years.

Apparently, a large part of Antarctica broke away this week, nearly the size of Spain.

Instead of the usual floating nearby and getting lodged, this huge mega tonne block of ice, nearly 1/2 mile thick, was on the edge of the continent and has been dragged up into the main gulf flow and is expected to melt completely over the next 2 years.

The resultant rise in sea level will be approx. 10m, putting both the Palm and lower floors of property around the marina under flooding threat and could be under 5m of water before construction is completed.

What the hell do we do now, if we cannot even get into our apartments??

Is this the end of the line for Dubai Marina completely:ohno:

The Torch

Where the heck did you hear this sh*t from? Wish people just grow up and get on with living their lives rather than sh*t stirring!

Where the heck did you hear this sh*t from? Wish people just grow up and get on with living their lives rather than sh*t stirring!

What's today's date?

Where the heck did you hear this sh*t from? Wish people just grow up and get on with living their lives rather than sh*t stirring!

APRIL FOOL !!!

I think people are forgetting that the workers had a choice to come here and work, nobody was forced. And $7 a day is still better than $2 a day working on a farm back home. Why do you think none of them want to go back.

Don't you know? they borrow several thou bucks on the promise of great earnings in Dubai, as soon as the arrive their passports are confiscated, and family back home left to deal with money lenders..there is no escape, even when the work stops...didn't you see programs about them wanting to commit suicide? Anyhow, I wasn't aware when we bought.

What I don't understand, is that everyone seems to forget that slave labour is used to build The Torch, and the human misery. What is it, $7 a day?

Stop being so dramatic! Yes it's awful from many people's point of view - but it isn't slave labour. Slave labour isn't paid work at all and the people involved are "owned" by their employer with no option to go home. Where does the description "slave labour" fit in with what's going on here? It's just another oft spouted line overused in the media to create sensation and to misprepresent the real situation.

I wouldn't do it for $7 per day but don't knock it because for some people it's apparently worth their while.

All very true.
"Who's to blame"
1.Is it the developer.
2.Is it those who allow it to happen.

In the uk there is a minimum wage per hour set by government.Heavy fine's if you pay less,and get reported.

Was curious why everyone talking about the cost of materials, land etc, but no mention of the cost of labour, several thousand workforce, effectively slaves, surely in real countries the cost of labour is a factor to be considered, probably more than 50 times greater than in Dubai?

How does this huge saving in labour costs, ignoring the human misery, get accounted for?

Why does Scooby moan all the time? If it's not his teeny weeny yellow polkadot balcony, it's workers earning half a dirham a week. He's brought it up all before and it's like a broken record going on and on and on and on......then when you think he's finished for a few months it all comes back again. :lol:

I think Scooby is actually a woman though, only a woman could go on so much and drive us men mad !! :lol:

Was curious why everyone talking about the cost of materials, land etc, but no mention of the cost of labour, several thousand workforce, effectively slaves, surely in real countries the cost of labour is a factor to be considered, probably more than 50 times greater than in Dubai?

How does this huge saving in labour costs, ignoring the human misery, get accounted for?



Low labour costs,high profits.What everyone wants.Keeps the developer attracted and Dubai expanding.

2.who allows it.

Low labour costs,high profits.What everyone wants.Keeps the developer attracted and Dubai expanding.

2.who allows it.

I wanna get out of this investor mullarky crap.
What is the easiest way to become a developer in Dubai? Do I need a licence?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4481977430_c4a4382515_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4481470817_d26dd6bbbc_b.jpg

Al where is Wikipeadia? Can you get there without changing lifts?


Wikipeadia, or as us locals call it "Wicked" is next to Nickipeadia, or as us locals call it "Nicked" and just down the road from Pissipeadia, or as us locals call it "Pissed" you have to get a 69 bus, from Muffydiving bus Station to get there, make sure the headboard says, all stops to Wicked, Pissed, and Nicked.

A.

cbp, can you get a photo from floor 16/19 from an 06
view ! sorry to be a pain in the ass, from your point of view
do you think that they will hand over at that level this year ?:cheers:

Hi to all. Is there any chance that any one of you good guys can get me picture of my appt 511 either from inside or it's view. I will be really thankful. Seems like chances are slim for this years handover. If any can enlighten me more on this plzz.

Wikipeadia, or as us locals call it "Wicked" is next to Nickipeadia, or as us locals call it "Nicked" and just down the road from Pissipeadia, or as us locals call it "Pissed" you have to get a 69 bus, from Muffydiving bus Station to get there, make sure the headboard says, all stops to Wicked, Pissed, and Nicked.

A.

Sorry Alan.. are you sure there is a bus?

Sorry Alan.. are you sure there is a bus?


The Men amongst us, will understand.

Al.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1evpqf.jpg

I wanna get out of this investor mullarky crap.
What is the easiest way to become a developer in Dubai? Do I need a licence?

You will need to lose all your morals prior to making this leep down to the lowest form of human being.

Are you sure you are prepared to sell your sole to the Devil???

The Torch

Night view from the Torch balcony

http://i39.tinypic.com/30tmlug.jpg

^^^^ And that's the reason we bought !!!!!

^^^^ Stunning

Dubai Steve, excellent views. Do you have any interior pictures?

^^^^ And that's the reason we bought !!!!!

Because you had the foresight to know that nothing would be built in front of you.:applause:

Because you had the foresight to know that nothing would be built in front of you.:applause:

Because we had a dream of actually buying something based on the facts we were told with the limited height of development in front (back in 2005), I for one bought within the floor levels over 70th to see over potential towers of the restricted height !! For me it was here with the views out to sea and down the marina (hopefully) or a Jewels Unit that clearly did not have the floor space that it was being sold as, with nice views over the marina and to the untidy works area to the side, which was a massive turn off for me (and for sure was not living the dream) and at this time I was told of the $1m landscaping project that due in front of The Jewels, and guess what, No landscaping in front of The Jewels as yet, and guess what again, no towers in front of the Torch as yet. So, Jewels has not had something Cayan sales were selling into, Shame, and The Torch, no development in front as yet.. BONUS.

Why do I bring up the Jewels, no not "tit for tat " as I am actually older that to use that, but these were the 2 developments I short listed, and to show just how what is told by developers to help along the sale and what you actually get is not always the truth even by other developers than Select you know !!

Parks and beech club areas are not built because dubai has not got the money .
The gamble is or was ?
We build all these apartments and the people will come and increase our economy !
guess what
they did,nt. !

So no need for nice parks etc!

When was the last time you heard of a flipper complain about infrastructure ?

Now we have some very good people owning properties here like myself (in dubai sports city) but too many investors ( money makers not home owners)
So too many homes and not enough contributions to the local economy !
And now what do we have !
A world wide recession ( well still here in the uk)
Dubai property market slowed to a virtual stand still and no nice people to take up the surplus stock of housing and a dubai real estate market going to press every day trying to kick fire the market !
The real estate market in dubai has not reduced prices to generate sales enough to make it interesting or viable .
Property is still too expensive and alot of areas in dubai the stock is not of the required standard even in show case areas like the palm etc !
It has to drop prices to come in line with what it is offering ?
And bear in mind a home with no nice areas is because there is not enough nice people .....:)

^^ Have you been hanging out with Bizzy :)

Originally Posted by bizzybonita
I thought you was luck down for good May 3rd, 2012 08:06 PM ... Thread's Playa

You sir (BIZZYBONITA) are appointed to moderate here NOT sit back and mess with, and BULLY members.



You have done this repeatedly with myself,despite my contribution to the D.Sc. threads and other since 2007..

My contribution to DSc is less because of your single handed ,sick minded bulling attitude imo!

take a look at your pointless tirade against me since the turn of the year below

I have repeatedly asked you and atlind, for your help for improvements to the Mess ,which your lack of "moderation" has led too in the first place on the DSc threads....


I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG TO DESERVE THIS !!!!!!


Profile Infraction
Reason: Random Post
July 3rd, 2011 06:06 PM by bizzybonita 3 / May 3rd, 2012 06:06 PM

Profile Infraction
Reason: Inappropriate Language
February 7th, 2011 09:28 PM by bizzybonita 1 / Expired

Profile Infraction
Reason: Posting random stuff/opening random threads
February 4th, 2011 02:21 PM by bizzybonita 2 / Never

Profile Warning
Reason: Wrong attitude
February 4th, 2011 02:17 PM by bizzybonita 0 / Expired

Bizzybonita your are one sick human being..

^^ Have you been hanging out with Bizzy :)

He’s still not very good in taking pictures.

Otherwise Bizzy have improved a lot. :lol:

Because we had a dream of actually buying something based on the facts we were told with the limited height of development in front (back in 2005), I for one bought within the floor levels over 70th to see over potential towers of the restricted height !! For me it was here with the views out to sea and down the marina (hopefully) or a Jewels Unit that clearly did not have the floor space that it was being sold as, with nice views over the marina and to the untidy works area to the side, which was a massive turn off for me (and for sure was not living the dream) and at this time I was told of the $1m landscaping project that due in front of The Jewels, and guess what, No landscaping in front of The Jewels as yet, and guess what again, no towers in front of the Torch as yet. So, Jewels has not had something Cayan sales were selling into, Shame, and The Torch, no development in front as yet.. BONUS.

Why do I bring up the Jewels, no not "tit for tat " as I am actually older that to use that, but these were the 2 developments I short listed, and to show just how what is told by developers to help along the sale and what you actually get is not always the truth even by other developers than Select you know !!

You make a lot of comparisons with The Jewels most of which are not really relevant or correct. Main point is Jewels was handed over within 1 year of the date promised by the developer. Had the Torch been then you would have enjoyed atleast 1 year of your apartment so far, instead of waiting yet another year. So in that respect I think you made the wrong decision.

The developer lied to you regarding what was to be built on the plot in fornt of the Torch. It is just luck that your view will not be compromised, not a promise honoured by Select. It could become a park or nice landscaping but just like the landscaping along the marina road, it will just as quickly be ripped up as soon as something else takes priority.

We are still waiting on landscaping in front of the Jewels and every other open space in the marina. This is down to Emaar as they own the land. Great that we(expats) have to pay municipal housing fees to cover such amenities that don't exist.:bash:

If your apartment is above 70th floor then the view you will have will be nothing like the picture shown above. That is the sort of view you would be getting from the height of a Jewels 3 bed.

the night photo over the marina STEVE looks great !
from what floor was it taken from and number ?

You make a lot of comparisons with The Jewels most of which are not really relevant or correct. Main point is Jewels was handed over within 1 year of the date promised by the developer. Had the Torch been then you would have enjoyed atleast 1 year of your apartment so far, instead of waiting yet another year. So in that respect I think you made the wrong decision.

The developer lied to you regarding what was to be built on the plot in fornt of the Torch. It is just luck that your view will not be compromised, not a promise honoured by Select. It could become a park or nice landscaping but just like the landscaping along the marina road, it will just as quickly be ripped up as soon as something else takes priority.

We are still waiting on landscaping in front of the Jewels and every other open space in the marina. This is down to Emaar as they own the land. Great that we(expats) have to pay municipal housing fees to cover such amenities that don't exist.:bash:

If your apartment is above 70th floor then the view you will have will be nothing like the picture shown above. That is the sort of view you would be getting from the height of a Jewels 3 bed.

TB, my comment was based on the location rather than the actual view, I thought i was able to make an opinion on an open forum, also I am very aware that my individual view will be looking at the subject from a different angle, an angle that will make the view even more impressive but thanks for pointing that out to me. And yes, the developer was not telling the truth on delivery timescales and perhaps the plot in front, but I still do not feel that the wrong decision was made, I would not be happy if i decided to go for the location that I personally feel inferior, as location is all to ME... but we have been there done the location debate time and time again so can't be bothered to re-enter that discussion. As this is just one unit within a large portfolio, then timescales have proved not to be of big importance to me, but I do feel for others that this is not the case.


So, my response to Steve's picture still stands although I change the word We to I

"That's the reason I bought"

From flickr, marked as taken April 8th

http://i40.tinypic.com/x0sd9k.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/1zxuxb5.jpg

Am I missing something? Not much seems to have changed/happened during the last 4 weeks.

All the guys were sent up to BC site to do a couple of floors and try and stop the phone ringing.

Only joking, I'm just making it up:)

All the guys were sent up to BC site to do a couple of floors and try and stop the phone ringing.

Only joking, I'm just making it up:)

And I believed you :lol:

Am I missing something? Not much seems to have changed/happened during the last 4 weeks.

Probably glassing, internal fit out and pool deck works have been going on, not really alot more progress to see on the externals other than the roof feature, and cladding to the front middle of which the front external lift will be holding this up.

If your apartment is above 70th floor then the view you will have will be nothing like the picture shown above.

This is the view from the Torch at the higher floors.

http://i46.tinypic.com/spytfr.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/149a26t.jpg

and the lower floors

http://i39.tinypic.com/30tmlug.jpg

Way to go Steve!!! That's a great post for the weekend :cheers:

Hey everyone and anyone,

Does anyone know the equation for working out how much to sell at if you want to walk away with everything you have put in and perferably a small profit?

If you are on the LPP how would you work out your loss/profit?

Select are telling us we need to add our final payment price at the end of the 15year plan + fees and this would be the selling price. I worked it out and something does not add up!!

I realize they sell by the dhs/sq ft. Select are telling me, "The equation is simple". "Take your fees for reselling + your contract price devide by sq footage and this is your price to sell at!
This means that you are always hitting an unrealistic resale price per sq footage! This way I have a suspicion that select triple the money.
They keep banging on about exchange rates should ensure we dont loose too much!! This in my opnion is absolute rubbish and its agood way of select making a little extra money. Because the exchange rate is in our favour they seem to have moved the goal posts to suit them financially! We should benefit from the great exchange rates if we resell not them. They have already made there money tenfold!

Hope this all makes sense looking forward to your responses.

cheers

Bling08

Hey everyone and anyone,

Does anyone know the equation for working out how much to sell at if you want to walk away with everything you have put in and perferably a small profit?

If you are on the LPP how would you work out your loss/profit?

Select are telling us we need to add our final payment price at the end of the 15year plan + fees and this would be the selling price. I worked it out and something does not add up!!

I realize they sell by the dhs/sq ft. Select are telling me, "The equation is simple". "Take your fees for reselling + your contract price devide by sq footage and this is your price to sell at!
This means that you are always hitting an unrealistic resale price per sq footage! This way I have a suspicion that select triple the money.
They keep banging on about exchange rates should ensure we dont loose too much!! This in my opnion is absolute rubbish and its agood way of select making a little extra money. Because the exchange rate is in our favour they seem to have moved the goal posts to suit them financially! We should benefit from the great exchange rates if we resell not them. They have already made there money tenfold!

Hope this all makes sense looking forward to your responses.

cheers

Bling08

Are you in the UK buying using sterling ?

hi.

I have paid approximately 1,300,000 AED (1856000 AED as Puscase price for 15 years repayment) in 2006 for my apartment in the 6501 torch.

Now I wonder if it's a good idea that I cancel my contract if possible since the takeover is so delayed.
the contract says I can cancel my contract if the apartment is not finished innnen June 2006.

if anyone also know what is the price for this apartment today?
is it still possible to buy the apartment in Dubai with 15 years of repayment?

^^
You are dealing with SELECT and I believe there would be no way for you to simply cancel your contract as per contract agreement, recovered your invested funds to date and walk away from this investment.

Several contributors to this forum i believe have previously attempted to play this card but SELECT mentioned refunds would only be possible if the units were resold to another investor. With very few buyers out there for uncompleted units, you are in for a long wait to sell your unit.

Anyways, do push or fight to get them to adhere to the contractual agreement. Good luck

http://i42.tinypic.com/fxe73k.jpg

hi.

I have paid approximately 1,300,000 AED (1856000 AED as Puscase price for 15 years repayment) in 2006 for my apartment in the 6501 torch.

Now I wonder if it's a good idea that I cancel my contract if possible since the takeover is so delayed.
the contract says I can cancel my contract if the apartment is not finished innnen June 2006.

if anyone also know what is the price for this apartment today?
is it still possible to buy the apartment in Dubai with 15 years of repayment?

Hi AliReza

Please call me.

Vijay

16/April/2010

The Torch

http://i43.tinypic.com/o761zo.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/52n9zq.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/5b8dfs.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/33lz0yb.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2yjzw2c.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2dmc8z6.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/msotw1.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rrt8yf.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2bpjm8.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/affvw9.jpg

Welcome back Imre :banana: its been like watching Paint Dry here without you're updates

I agree, great to have you back. Nice shots, as usual.

Originally Posted by High Times --In MARCH 2009
January 2010 is the official line, with inspections commencing on lower levels in September 2009.

I think it will be January 2011 before i get my keys as i am quite HIGH.



On balance, personaly i can live with this as i estimated 3rd Quarter 2010 from day 1 of my investment.

With FM now in play i will have a chioice to make come September 2010.

1- Take a full refund in Dirham and exchange to Sterling
2- Sell up and take a profit if there is one
3- Rent out if there is still a viable rental market in Dubai either short term or long term

Unless the Dollar falls to $2.10 = £1 i cant loose really. Come September 2010 the world will be a different place and there will be bargains to be had back in the UK in terms of Property so this may well work out best for me as the funds came from UK property that i sold back in 2007 anyway.

Swings and roundabouts as they say.

HT JUST WONDERING IF YOU ARE ABLE TO DO THIS STILL ?

I've noticed there there is now an abundance of Torch units up for sale and some tasty bargains to boot. Does anyone know what the minimum deposit is for a Dubai based mortgage? If we are only looking at 20% or so, surely you cant loose for a long term-er?

=Saggy_Toad;55398793]I've noticed there there is now an abundance of Torch units up for sale and some tasty bargains to boot. Does anyone know what the minimum deposit is for a Dubai based mortgage? If we are only looking at 20% or so, surely you cant loose for a long term-er?[/QUOTE]

Lots for sale --none selling :lol:

exactamundo! time for an upgrade.

If anyone knows of a cheap - and I mean ridiculously, spectacularly cheap - 3-bed, on SPP, for sale, please PM me.

If anyone knows of a cheap - and I mean ridiculously, spectacularly cheap - 3-bed, on SPP, for sale, please PM me.

define the amount u think is ccchheeaaappppp plz? lol

define the amount u think is ccchheeaaappppp plz? lol

I believe that properties in The Torch are currently changing hands for around AED 600-650/sq ft.

I believe that properties in The Torch are currently changing hands for around AED 600-650/sq ft.

that s not good news for me as investor , may be good for new buyer... well i ll keep for few years and then think of selling . in case i get good price , its just wait and watch game.. i m sure area is great, hopefully building is great and lots of hope that its rentable. too many hopes no good i must admit lol

I believe that properties in The Torch are currently changing hands for around AED 600-650/sq ft.

Where you get the information from they exchange between 600-650 per sq ft ?

http://i39.tinypic.com/mjx276.jpg

600psf for such a great tower in an awesome location is just nuts but a great buying opportunity if this is not just wishful thinking. :nuts:

I expect prices to triple from that in several years time!

dubai steve,
if what u say about trip-le the price in 3 yrs, keep a day off and i ll take u for a drink .. i mean drink till u need to be carried offffff lol

Where you get the information from they exchange between 600-650 per sq ft ?

Best way to get a feel of current prices is to check out real estate trading platforms like Propertyfinder UAE or others.

From what I've seen prices in the Torch range around 1000 AED per sqft on average. For nice location within the tower you pay more (>1000), for less desirable apartments you pay less (down to around 750). View adn/or balconies matter obviously - like in any other city.

These are offerings though. Doesn't tell you actual sells happening.

Best way to get a feel of current prices is to check out real estate trading platforms like Propertyfinder UAE or others.

From what I've seen prices in the Torch range around 1000 AED per sqft on average. For nice location within the tower you pay more (>1000), for less desirable apartments you pay less (down to around 750). View adn/or balconies matter obviously - like in any other city.

These are offerings though. Doesn't tell you actual sells happening.

Yeah I would say 1000 AED for Marina Facing or good palm view apts and maybe 850 for less decent view. However 600-650 per sq ft seems just too low.

that s not good news for me as investor , may be good for new buyer... well i ll keep for few years and then think of selling . in case i get good price , its just wait and watch game.. i m sure area is great, hopefully building is great and lots of hope that its rentable. too many hopes no good i must admit lol

I think the building will be good and the properties will be worth at least the OP, probably more, once it's finished. My reason for giving the low valuation is simply because the market discounts property under construction so heavily. Here's an example, based on a 2-bed on a low floor:

Gross rent (once completed) - 120k
Service charge - 20k
Net rent - 100k
Value, based on 10% yield - 1m
Less lost net rent until completion date (say 18months) - 850k

Some people would also want a further discount if they felt there was a risk of the developer becoming insolvent and not completing the project. In the case of The Torch I think the risk is actually pretty minimal, but there are other under-construction projects, some of them almost as far advanced as The Torch, where I'd want a further 30 percent off in exchange for taking the risk.

Where you get the information from they exchange between 600-650 per sq ft ?

Talking to people who've bought resale units recently and those who are trying to dispose of units.

Best way to get a feel of current prices is to check out real estate trading platforms like Propertyfinder UAE or others.

From what I've seen prices in the Torch range around 1000 AED per sqft on average. For nice location within the tower you pay more (>1000), for less desirable apartments you pay less (down to around 750). View adn/or balconies matter obviously - like in any other city.

These are offerings though. Doesn't tell you actual sells happening.

I agree with your last sentence - and therefore beg to differ with the rest of your post. Yes, you'll find plenty of units in the Torch being marketed from 750 to 1000+ psf, but if you talk to people who've actually bought recently you'll hear much lower numbers.

Where I find propertyfinder and dubizzle interesting is in looking at what units in completed towers are selling and renting for. I think sale prices are rebounding and rents are stable, in the Marina and JLT at least. And based on what properties are actually selling for I do believe that Torch apartments will be worth the OP or more, once they're completed.

The problem is that there is very little in the way of a market for under-construction property in Dubai currently, and none for off-plan. People want completed units only. Therefore anyone holding an under-construction unit should stick with it until handover if they possibly can. If they really can't afford to, they have to sell to a limited pool of people who are willing to (a) take their return on capital until handover in the form of capital appreciation rather than rental yield and (b) believe that the project will be completed.

I would like a nice 3-bed on a high floor with good views for my own use (not rental) and believe this project is a good one, in a good location, so am prepared to take a flier on that basis. Hence if someone needs to get out of a 3-bed now, I'm an attractive proposition.

dubai steve,
if what u say about trip-le the price in 3 yrs, keep a day off and i ll take u for a drink .. i mean drink till u need to be carried offffff lol

I don't think 1800psf will be an unreasonable price in 5 years time when there will be little supply available in the marina. Especially since in the boom times property in this area was selling for 2500 to 3000psf

Anybody got any construction updates?
There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity going on.
It appears that all Select projects have slowed down.
End of 2011 handover at this rate, when is the next update due?

Anybody got any construction updates?
There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity going on.
It appears that all Select projects have slowed down.
End of 2011 handover at this rate, when is the next update due?

handover date means nuthing now from select property. its just a formality i gues form them guys.
so dont pin your hopes too high......

I'm an attractive proposition.

Look out Ladies Mistermark's an attractive proposition beer goggles? :lol:

(Sorry Mark couldn't resist!)

23/April/2010

The Torch

http://i44.tinypic.com/15f24ht.jpg

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http://i41.tinypic.com/34fy62d.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/24eryf5.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/5wayat.jpg

23/April/2010

The Torch

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http://i40.tinypic.com/21j18gk.jpg

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http://i42.tinypic.com/k2n3hg.jpg

Thanks for the update Imre, looks like some blockwork and windows have gone up since last week and hopefully more progress inside. Anyone have any site visits booked with Select in the next few weeks?

Thanks for the update Imre, looks like some blockwork and windows have gone up since last week and hopefully more progress inside. Anyone have any site visits booked with Select in the next few weeks?


We are hoping to book a trip out to Dubai on 11th May for 10 days. I contacted Select in Dubai, firstly to ask if they still do discounts for us travelling to Dubai, as we have used them for this before - they said no and I also asked if we could arrange a site visit to our unit. They said no one is allowed on site to view any units, not even Select, because of Insurance and the amount of work going on.

Wondered how some of you guys were able to take shots of internal units, if this was the case.

Seems crazy that they won't let us view our unit when travelling all that way and not sure I believe Select.

We are still trying to sell our unit, but Select are saying we won't sell if for less then 700 - 850 AED per Sq ft. Funny because Select were at Earls Court - Place in the sun and they weren't selling units for anything less then 1200AED per sq ft!!

We just want to try and get our money back now and trying to work out all the figures and what we need to market it at is proving difficult as Select are giving us conflicting information.

Again, appreciate all the info on this website and all the photos. Hope to take and post photos on our trip there in May.

By the way, has anyone opened a Bank account in Dubai? We've been told its fairly straightforward.

We are hoping to book a trip out to Dubai on 11th May for 10 days. I contacted Select in Dubai, firstly to ask if they still do discounts for us travelling to Dubai, as we have used them for this before - they said no and I also asked if we could arrange a site visit to our unit. They said no one is allowed on site to view any units, not even Select, because of Insurance and the amount of work going on.

Wondered how some of you guys were able to take shots of internal units, if this was the case.

Seems crazy that they won't let us view our unit when travelling all that way and not sure I believe Select.

We are still trying to sell our unit, but Select are saying we won't sell if for less then 700 - 850 AED per Sq ft. Funny because Select were at Earls Court - Place in the sun and they weren't selling units for anything less then 1200AED per sq ft!!

We just want to try and get our money back now and trying to work out all the figures and what we need to market it at is proving difficult as Select are giving us conflicting information.

Again, appreciate all the info on this website and all the photos. Hope to take and post photos on our trip there in May.

By the way, has anyone opened a Bank account in Dubai? We've been told its fairly straightforward.
Hi Bling08. To open an account go to ADCB (Abu Dabi Commercial Bank) at the Mall of the Emirates. It can only be a savings account. No other is permissable unless you are a resident/national. The savings account is more like a UK current account but pays a small rate of interest! From memory, you will definately need your passport, take a photocopy of it too, some proof of payments made on your apartment, 6 months minimum of current account activity, again take a copy for their retention, a deposit of no less than 1,500 AED and a Du sim/card in your phone so that the bank can confirm your account opening and notify you of delivery of documents. You may have to confirm opening of account afterwards via the phone and definately need to visit a ADCB cash point to activate the account (yes you get a debit card). You can get a DU card at the airport upon arrival or at the Mall of The Emirates. This is all from memory but do speak to the people at the bank. They are very helpful. BUT allow 5 days from application to receipt of documents.
Good luck.

We are hoping to book a trip out to Dubai on 11th May for 10 days. I contacted Select in Dubai, firstly to ask if they still do discounts for us travelling to Dubai, as we have used them for this before - they said no and I also asked if we could arrange a site visit to our unit. They said no one is allowed on site to view any units, not even Select, because of Insurance and the amount of work going on.

Wondered how some of you guys were able to take shots of internal units, if this was the case.

Seems crazy that they won't let us view our unit when travelling all that way and not sure I believe Select.

We are still trying to sell our unit, but Select are saying we won't sell if for less then 700 - 850 AED per Sq ft. Funny because Select were at Earls Court - Place in the sun and they weren't selling units for anything less then 1200AED per sq ft!!

We just want to try and get our money back now and trying to work out all the figures and what we need to market it at is proving difficult as Select are giving us conflicting information.

Again, appreciate all the info on this website and all the photos. Hope to take and post photos on our trip there in May.

By the way, has anyone opened a Bank account in Dubai? We've been told its fairly straightforward.

Just one point i would like to add !

Inspecting these towers under construction is very dangerous and certainly not for the feint hearted!

I went up several sets of ruble filled stairs in pitch black and the temperature in the buldig must have been 60dec !

By the time i got to the sixth floor i was in a right state ,could hardly breath !
So i would not advise this unless you like to live dangerously and are very fit ?
which i am not :lol:
:)

Hi Bling08. To open an account go to ADCB (Abu Dabi Commercial Bank) at the Mall of the Emirates. It can only be a savings account. No other is permissable unless you are a resident/national. The savings account is more like a UK current account but pays a small rate of interest! From memory, you will definately need your passport, take a photocopy of it too, some proof of payments made on your apartment, 6 months minimum of current account activity, again take a copy for their retention, a deposit of no less than 1,500 AED and a Du sim/card in your phone so that the bank can confirm your account opening and notify you of delivery of documents. You may have to confirm opening of account afterwards via the phone and definately need to visit a ADCB cash point to activate the account (yes you get a debit card). You can get a DU card at the airport upon arrival or at the Mall of The Emirates. This is all from memory but do speak to the people at the bank. They are very helpful. BUT allow 5 days from application to receipt of documents.
Good luck.

Which is the better option ADCB or Emirates bank? Most people on here recommended Emirates.

Emirates bank is relatively easy to get a savings account opened but can be a right chew on getting it online and being able to manage payments, service charges,Dewa etc outside of Dubai. It is almost impossible to resolve issues without being in Dubai so make sure you ask about this (about a dozen times occasionally does the trick) when you are in Dubai.

24 April 2010

http://i42.tinypic.com/xc7n8j.jpg

If all four sides are the same as the one in the above photo, looks like there's not much more glazing to be done. So I guess the handover date will depend on the amount of internal work still to be done, plus the communal areas/facilities, and of course the roof feature...

I am getting seriously fed up with the lack of progress on The Torch.

Given the number of years behind schedule, you would expect Select Group to be making every effort to complete this project as fast as is physically and practically possible.

I see a lack of focus, a lack of activity and other towers flying past The Torch, with 10 fold the activity and focus.

We are not going to hit the latest (4th or 5th) deadline, and I can see higher floors stretching out into 2012 at this rate.

The progress is simply not good enough and I think we need a formal statement from Select to all Torch owners, on why the activity appears so low now.

Our investments are costing us money and Select are hiding behind a legally incorrect FM, to delay, delay delay.

I have had enough of delays and I want this project completed and I want an explanation as to why the activity is not there to get the project completed in a timely and contracted manner.

Enough is enough.

The Torch

I am getting seriously fed up with the lack of progress on The Torch.

Given the number of years behind schedule, you would expect Select Group to be making every effort to complete this project as fast as is physically and practically possible.

I see a lack of focus, a lack of activity and other towers flying past The Torch, with 10 fold the activity and focus.

We are not going to hit the latest (4th or 5th) deadline, and I can see higher floors stretching out into 2012 at this rate.

The progress is simply not good enough and I think we need a formal statement from Select to all Torch owners, on why the activity appears so low now.

Our investments are costing us money and Select are hiding behind a legally incorrect FM, to delay, delay delay.

I have had enough of delays and I want this project completed and I want an explanation as to why the activity is not there to get the project completed in a timely and contracted manner.

Enough is enough.

The Torch

we all feel the same , but who cares? not select property for sure , they in thier own world when they come up with all the excuses

26/April/2010

The Torch from the Infinity Tower

http://i40.tinypic.com/o8ywpc.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2s7z0b6.jpg

Fabulous work Imre you have a remarkable talent, would there be any chance you can take some shots or even better a video from lowish 06 in the torch looking down the Marina. 'you are the man that can'

How time flies...

I've just realised that I reserved my Torch apartments HALF A DECADE AGO, almost to the day: April 2005 it was. I'll almost feel disappointed when they're finally delivered, with this amount of anticipation...

http://i41.tinypic.com/r77uh2.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/mjn5gm.jpg

Steve, you love those pictures that don't include Infinity..or maybe you crop it out..:lol:

30/April/2010

The Torch

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http://i41.tinypic.com/wu465z.jpg

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http://i43.tinypic.com/25utovl.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lc75m8.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/dbky8k.jpg

Steve, you love those pictures that don't include Infinity..or maybe you crop it out..:lol:

http://i42.tinypic.com/15mmy5g.jpg

:cheers:

30/April/2010

Dubai Marina

http://i44.tinypic.com/r0p1r7.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/35l9da9.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/23ueddv.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/15nr3w8.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/otj5u9.jpg

How time flies...

I've just realised that I reserved my Torch apartments HALF A DECADE AGO, almost to the day: April 2005 it was. I'll almost feel disappointed when they're finally delivered, with this amount of anticipation...

So that will be around 3½ week per floor......:bash: not exactly a world record..... How long time did it take to build the Burj khalifa??

Sorry couldn't help comment - but it does put things in perspective....

Hope what you get is satisfying.

:banana:

.....

Which is the better option ADCB or Emirates bank? Most people on here recommended Emirates.
Hi Dubai Steve,
When I opened my account, I was advised by my agent that ADCB was the only bank 'open' to non residents. I was told that no other bank would be interested. I opened the account in August 2009... things may well have changed!
All the best.
Psofos.

http://i42.tinypic.com/6zv5h5.jpg

^^ Made a large Pano of the Torch and Infinity from GH,

The Image will become a link later

06/May/2010

The Torch

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http://i42.tinypic.com/2uswuwi.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2h6x28o.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/n3b2w8.jpg

07/May/2010

The Torch

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http://i44.tinypic.com/aww4zn.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/255qqoi.jpg

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http://i39.tinypic.com/1zpnsrm.jpg

From 234sales's giga photo:

http://i44.tinypic.com/34g7dj4.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2usbm7s.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/j0vez7.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/24v8vv9.jpg

13/May/2010

The Torch

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http://i41.tinypic.com/xc658l.jpg

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http://i41.tinypic.com/24v8vv9.jpg

Hi Charlie What floor was this taken from?
Thanks Shakka

WOW...if it wasn't for Imre I'd be blowing the dust off this forum! Is everyone out picking curtains?

^^No I've been busy counting the amount of bricks built & windows fitted since last week, just managed to finish counting tonight & the grand total is

Bricks/Blocks Built = 24.5
Windows Fitted = 3

Reasons for this maybe that Select being the GREEDY C**TS that they are don't switch on the Electric for the lifts so the work force are Knackered climbing the stairs to the top & by the time they get there they only have a short time to work, then they have to leave early so they can get all the way down to catch their bus back to camp:cheers:

or it could also be that they got the wrong size of Mars Bar for the top & everyone is out looking for a bigger one

Are they believes of what select believe ! :ohno:

http://i9.cmail3.com/ei/y/E6/314/2BA/030319/1.jpg

How many retail units are there in TT? Does every building in the Tallest block have this arrangement with retail units in the podium? I'm guessing this could all add up to an awful lot of further retail units which are going to be hard to fill for quite a while. Common sense would suggest that all of these buildings can support a few units specifically targetted to the everyday needs of the occupants, e.g. grocery store, cafe, laundry/dry cleaning, property management, and in SG projects a Kitchens and Bathrooms showroom! I'm guessing though that a thriving swanky mall type arrangement in each building is a bit of a pipe dream.

Hi Charlie What floor was this taken from?
Thanks Shakka

20th

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SG has just announced that inspection/snagging visits will take place in August and September, depending on floor number.

MM,

Is that via an email or ove the phone?

Just read my inspection letter too, also states that at the time of handover we will be asked to sign a "short addenum" to the SPA in regards to the apartment renumbering. I wonder what else will be in the addenum that we are asked to sign on??

Any thoughts on this anyone

Cheers

MM,

Is that via an email or ove the phone?

My ones came by email. I guess if SG doesn't have some buyers' email addresses they may have to courier them letters.

Just read my inspection letter too, also states that at the time of handover we will be asked to sign a "short addenum" to the SPA in regards to the apartment renumbering. I wonder what else will be in the addenum that we are asked to sign on??

Any thoughts on this anyone

Cheers

Presumably handover will happen later than the inspection dates we've just been notified about. In which case I guess there should be plenty of time to ask for a copy of the addendum in advance, though I'm sure it will deal solely with the re-numbering, not least because I suspect all buyers are being asked to sign it, and not just those on the LPP.

Those that have rec'd these letters from Select in the post rather than email, were they sent recored or signed for delivery or standard post, can someone kindly advise me, thanks.

Mine was e mailed to me today so I imagine any that have been posted won't have reached you yet.
Basically what it says is that the dates for hand over are:
unit numbers between 601 and 3608, inspections are between 1st and 31st August.
Remaining units from 3701 and upwards will be 1st - 30th September (excluding Fridays and Saturdays).
It also says that all unit numbers will be changed eg. 606 will be 1206.

Mine was e mailed to me today so I imagine any that have been posted won't have reached you yet.
Basically what it says is that the dates for hand over are:
unit numbers between 601 and 3608, inspections are between 1st and 31st August.
Remaining units from 3701 and upwards will be 1st - 30th September (excluding Fridays and Saturdays).
It also says that all unit numbers will be changed eg. 606 will be 1206.

Thanks for that, I'm just not able to receive post at the moment. So units higher than level 37, they are giving a month to inspect... anyone with up to date knowledge know or anyone seen if its at all possible to meet this latest date and if the building will be ready or safe to inspect??

These are orientation inspections not handovers!

Hi there,

Interesting commnets from both you and Select. As I understand it orientation/snagging will take 3 months to complete and then hand-over is not possible until the appropriate habitation certificates etc. are received.

Now I think the real question is, how long will this take???????? we should have some idea from the hand-over of the Point.

Thank you all........

Some handover's might happen before the end of the year but don't expect this to be rentable until March 2011 (6 years after launch!). Budget at least 4 quarter payments on LPP at AED 5 = £1 before any income.

Mine was e mailed to me today so I imagine any that have been posted won't have reached you yet.
Basically what it says is that the dates for hand over are:
unit numbers between 601 and 3608, inspections are between 1st and 31st August.
Remaining units from 3701 and upwards will be 1st - 30th September (excluding Fridays and Saturdays).
It also says that all unit numbers will be changed eg. 606 will be 1206.

If the unit numbers are being changed, would my 32 apmt be inspected in Aug or will it become 38 and then be in Sept? I guess thats a def NO to having a liveable apartment in time for the Abu Dhabi grand prix and Rugby in November

Can anyone remember how long it was between snagging inspection and genuine handover/occupation on The Point, Royal Oceanic or Yacht Bay?

Does the letter state whether 3rd party companies can do snagging on owners behalf. I recall for The Point some people mentioned that a company was appointed and they were very good.

BTW I have not received a letter or email and I am on floor 12 (18 now)