So, based on the satellite photo on page 20 of the 'Dubai Marina Plot Map' thread - does that mean that there will be no sea view for most Torch floors due to the location of Emirates Crown and Princess Tower??

and you have just noticed that? :weird:

anyway, infinity tower is also blocking views.
also le reve and the other ones on the right.

remember the torch is 84F while Al Marsa and EC are only 59 and 64, so the top floors might have a palm/sea view.

Yes I just noticed that (does that make me unintelligent?)- but without trying to sound selfish - it doesn't worry me as my apt is marina facing.

Dubaiflo or others,

Do you believe that the "01" line of the Torch will have a good Sea View looking towards the Palm as it will be positioned to view between Le Reve and Princess Tower in the bit of gap on that street? I have not been on the ground myself to view that distance. I guess it would be a view of the palm over that drydock.

indeed, you will have a .. sea view, e.g. you will be able to to look between le reve and princess.

notice that princess is likely to be very wide, while le reve is not, so if you turn a bit right you will see the palm and the open ocean.

BUT remember the road is only about 80m wide and it also depends on how exactly the torch is located on the (large) plot.

Drydock!!! ???? !!! :eek:

you mean the Marine club?

its not comercial dont worry! no oil tankers coming in for a patch up.

The "tea break" is over ... :runaway:

altin post your updates :D
NOW!!!!

Yes hurry up AltinD - we need information!
otherwise we will accuse you of being on a tea break.

God! How boring are you ppl when I'm not altercating?

Naz, please will you shut up now? Leave these good people alone...everything was running smoothly (although a little boringly) before you came on the scene, so stop er attacking them. And tuck your shirt in!

Naz, please will you shut up now? Leave these good people alone...everything was running smoothly (although a little boringly) before you came on the scene, so stop er attacking them. And tuck your shirt in!

wtf? busted! who are you?

^^ TROLL ^^

What does Troll mean?!?

destroying the forum.

indeed that new damac tower will take away every sea view from the torch and MH, only the road left and the 5 degree angle between infinity and the GV.

+ it also means infinity will be on the very edge of the marina.

i wonder if the walls will be able to stand that, so close to the water. they need a good foundation and deep piling i guess.

Leave Dazz alone, he's not a Troll :tongue3:

wtf? busted! who are you?


It's alright. He's in the next stage of dementia: talking to yourself.

No he's not! Dazz is not demented. Take it back.

So guys, how do u reckon this new tower changes the height order in the Marina?...

1) Princess
2) "Lets-block-Torch's-view" Tower
3) 23 Marina
4) Torch
5) Ocean Heights

Is that about right for the top 5?

Pricess is mostl likely second now as the new one is about 441 m

25/02/2006

http://i1.tinypic.com/okmtz4.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/okmwli.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/okn389.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/okn3md.jpg


... so you can clearly see that the "tea break" is over.

yeah, a lot of stuff happing there :eek:
same with mag218.

:okay: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :okay:

Great piling has finally started for real!

Thanks for the updates AltinD :hug:

we've been waiting for a long time

man, i leave dubai and within one week dozens of new towers have been launched and another dozen of supertalls has started construction :eek:

insane!

Great pictures Altin, many thanks.

Pricess is mostl likely second now as the new one is about 441 m


princess could be more than 441 easily with that roof feature and spire.

also don't forget infinity tower.



man, i leave dubai and within one week dozens of new towers have been launched and another dozen of supertalls has started construction :eek:



thinking of it, you could be the reason dennis :runaway:

'mhm this tall german guy there taking photos, he is very suspicious, better not start construction... :sly: '

http://tinypic.com/nxul4i.jpg

What floor of the Torch do you think would be the cut off in order to have a view over Le Reve? I think it must be higher than 210 meters but perhaps I am wrong on that? I was thinking based on The Torch being 345 meters:

345 * .63 = ~217 (7 meter clearance)

74 floors * .63 = ~46th floor

Any ideas?

That joke is not bad Flo :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Schmeiß mich weg. Geiler Tag sag ich mal.

^^ :rofl: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


What floor of the Torch do you think would be the cut off in order to have a view over Le Reve? I think it must be higher than 210 meters but perhaps I am wrong on that? I was thinking based on The Torch being 345 meters:

345 * .63 = ~217 (7 meter clearance)

74 floors * .63 = ~46th floor

Any ideas?

no no... at least 50m are roof and spire for the torch.

roof height/top floor should be about 300m.

300 / 84 = 3,6

210 / 3.6 = 59

so floor 60 or more.

but where is the point in looking above le reve?

it is not very wide, and you will always have to view betwen princess and le reve, where the road is.

Muchas gracias Dubaiflo - you are on the ball!

After having seen the new DAMAC building being built in the upper marina area next to infinity Tower this clearly shows there is enough room to build a big tower in front of the Torch and Marina Heights where the EMAAR sales office is currently located. Lets just hope Emaar dont sell the plot to someone to build a hugh Tower there also.

there are, again three plots in the HOK map in front of marina heights and the torch. it just remains to be seen whether they will be built up or not.

i am however almost sure nothing above 20F will be built here...

Finally some real shit!! :cheers:

Update on Dubai property law, for anyone interested.

http://www.ameinfo.com/78851.html

Finally some real shit!! :cheers:


much unlike that fake shit, that has been banded around from karama recently.

:rofl:

Been speaking with the architects they still confident the tower will be built for summer 2008. From the summer onwards the expect to be putting up 1 floor per week. So maybe it will be ready for 2008 summer time.

I really believe they will do a good job and ensure that quality is of high standard.

summer onwards?

they claim the foundation will be ready by august?

They would have to finish in early july to get o the 1 floor a week stage.

that means at least floor 4,5 or 6 to get proper craning e.t.c.. going.


maybe they will just pretend their is a foundation and start building :)

it doesnt have a basement does it?

of course it has a basement, where r people supposed to park their passats if not? :weird:

I washoping they would drive the damn things into the marina [mind Almillions penthouse!]

ok, so unless they are freaks, they wont be at one floor a week until mid september @ earliest!

where does that put completion.

of course they may build quicker after that but still...

That puts completion at around June 2008. Oh look...exactly as it says in the brochure...wow...what a coincidence.

sept 2006 IF they can do that.. and sorry, one floor per week from then on, would mean topped out in may/june 2008..

so mr naz, and what about exterior, interior, roof feature.
this along takes at least, AT LEAST half a year.

Well in which case it will be end of 2008 Which is when infinity is supposed to be complete too and they have just started work recently so they look more likely to hit there completion date then the Torch wihch will be delayed by a few month if not more.

But thats not too bad i could live with that.

Exactly my point, i never even bothered to work it out coz I can live with that too, anytime in 2008 is fine by me.

Piling has already begun. They said it will take 6 months. So i reckon it will finish around July or August at the latest.

So assuming piling finishes end Aug, and for argument sake construction started 1st Sept, thats 96 weeks to the last week in June 2008.

Thats 12 weeks, which i know is cutting it very thin. So perhaps towards end of June.

Just one point though, its quite possible at some stage for them to be building in excess of 1 floor per week. If Burj Dubai is 1 floor per week at its base, which is probably twice the area of the Torch, then its quite feasable towards the top they build quicker than 1 fl. per week.

there is hardly any tower which is faster than 1F/week, and the torch is rather wide.

also i doubt piling has really began, have we seen any soil test?

also i think there will be an excavation.

Sorry didnt explain the middle bit well, (too much distraction in the office today! :tongue3:

I meant to say, "so that leaves 12 weeks for finishing all the rest, which is cutting it a bit thin, i know..so more like end of Sept for completion"

i don't have any information on if the tower has a basement
obviously it won't have one, this is why there won't be any excavation work either!

I meant that it gets much smaller towards the top. The total floor areas gets smaller in stages:

Floors 6-21 Total floor space = 11744 sq. ft. (plus hallways, lifts etc)
Floors 23-53 total floor space = 10160 sq ft. + above
Floors 55-71 total floor space = 7172 sq ft + above.

The tower has 3 underground floors for car-parking (also 2 car-parks floors above). So yes there will be excavation, as it happens.

part 3 anyone...

this time without investment discussion :D

dennis as naz has said there will be underground basement.
the excavation will also need its time.

so june 2008 is veeeery unlikely.

Sure flo! :lol:

http://realestate.theemiratesnetwork.com/developments/dubai/images/the_torch_logo.jpg

Here is the new thread about the SKYSCRAPER The Torch:


http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk/media/img/torch-large.jpg

The Torch, also referred to as the Marina Torch and Dubai Torch, is being built as one of the many freehold residential towers located at the Dubai Marina, which is opposite to the Jumeirah Lake Towers and next to the American University of Dubai. It is located on the same side of the marina as the Dubai Marina Towers and just two buildings away.

The 345 meter (1,132 feet) high building will have a total built up area of 111,832 square meters (1.2 million square feet) and be elevated by 3 basements and a 4-storey podium block. The Torch tower will have 74 storeys and contain 504 apartment units with 128 1-bedroom, 128 2-bedroom, 68 3-bedroom, and 4 duplex apartment suites ranging from 904 to 1,712 square feet.

The three basements and four podium levels of the Torch tower will provide car parking for 536 vehicles, while floors 5 and 6 will contain recreational amenities including a swimming pool, health club, gymnasium, cafeteria, aerobic rooms and sit-out cover seal terraces.

Expected Completion Date - In 2008
Real Estate Developer - Dubai Select Property
Location - Dubai Marina, Dubai, United Arab Emirates



http://i1.tinypic.com/okn3md.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/orm91g.jpg

AND here is the INVESTORS THREAD:

Discuss your apts curtain's colour here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321509)

WTF? Huh...What the hell is that unbelievably tall looking thing to the left of the pic?

Is that a joke, or has someone quietly placed a 500m tower in the block, hoping no one would notice?

that was a 110F res tower which was .. well more or less approved, by dimensions, nothing happened yet and we consider it never built
but be sure another supertall will be built there.

Yes but isnt Princess gona be around 104-110 floors? And look at the size difference! Are you sure thats not NY's Freedom Tower that the planners have misplaced slightly to the left? (7000 miles to the left!)

no no :D

this is the old princess 90F version, in fact princess is going to be taller than in the render above.
this 110F tower is slightly above 400m.

I've a better version with infinity. Will dig it up soon

i know it is some where around but i don't know where. i don't have it on my HDD which was surprising, i am saving everything usuallly. anyway.
someone needs to make one with the damac tower.

where is larven. :D

You know what, I am so glad now that I didnt get talked into buying on a higher floor!!

Doesn't seem to be advantageous against the higher cost anymore as so many supertalls surround the Torch! I think the best view for any floor on the in the Torch will be overlooking the gap between Princess and the one to its right watever its called (help me out here guys, im sooo blindingly ignorant of the other Towers jus coz i've bought in the Torch :bash: )

That gap should be just big enough for me to catch a glimpse of the Palm and the sea!!! Thanks to the road in between above said Tower and Princess.

Here's the pic. I moved infinity tower over a bit to make way for the damac tower. If they both get built then it means infinity is right on the edge.

http://i2.tinypic.com/orpchy.jpg

flow, add a link to the chit-chav thread on post 1


malec, are you sure that infinity is there, i asumed it would be on the other side of the road. next to the new bridge.

I don't think so. This is from their website:

http://web8.p15170619.pureserver.info/fileadmin/images/location/marina_03.jpg

Oh right. i saw a render that showed it from the phase 1 perspective; and it looked like it was behind the suspensin bridge thing.

i think your right; it looks that way in every other image.

Aren't the greatest portion of UK Chavs from Manchester? Anybody? I mean i've seen Coronation Street....bloody Nora!

No. in mancheter we have scallies. of which their are far more in liverpool

your kind prefer to stay down south, where the Burbury is more prevailent.

Isnt it spelt Burberry? Chavs mainly tend to have distinct lack of education, which was is often exasperated by, erm...bad spelling, amongst other things.

Sorry, i dont buy it. wouldnt know how its spelt.

Btw, has anyone thought about how bad the traffic will be on this block!

it will be one of the most densly populated places on earth!

no because i doubt the towers will be fully occupied.

but yes, traffic will be a major problem in the marina with JLT nearby.

i wonder what happens if another earthquake happens and the whole lot runs out of their towers :runaway:

Thats why Dubai investing in the metro, it might be hard to get people from dubai to use it but people from like London where they always used the tube would more likely not mind using the Metro.

I'd rather travel that way then get stressed in a car.

Anyway i heard a 5th lane being added to SZR don't know where from and upto which point.

And as flo siad i doubt they will be fully ocuupied all year round.

Hi, I'm new to this but have been reading this thread from the start, very interesting. Just wondering what's happening to floor 6 as I've bought there and dubaiflo says it's going to be a recreational floor.

you might have bought in Residential floor 6, which is actually perhaps floor 10, because they start to count the residential floors from the top ground/basement floor.

Flo are you causing trouble again, making poor investors confused and worried :D

That makes sense, thanks.

The Torch consists of:
3 underground car-parking floors.
Podium Block = 5 floors, (fls 1-3 car-parking, 4-5 swimming pool, gym, shops, cafe, etc)
Floors 6-74 - Residential floors.

Why does the thread title say 85 floors ?

Naz r u sure they are not 74 Residential floors + B + G + M?

Germans are supposed to be good at maths.

74+3 is not = 84

neither is 74+5 for that matter!

:blahblah:

what about 74Res + 3B + 5G + 2M :naughty:

:gunz:

post whore^^

flo.... 5 ground....WTF!!

This is all getting a bit confusing now..but its a very valid question. I'm gona get a final answer on this tomorrow (friday).

It seems to me that there's a mistake here because the brochure lists floors 6-73 (my mistake, not 74) as residential. Now that is actually 67 floors, because floors 1-5 are car-parking/recreational. And floors -1 to -3 are car-parking too.

So in total, that gives 73 + basement 3 = 76 floors....

Flo, I think the answer lies in the bits between each section of the building, which i mentioned before (6-21, 22-53 and 55-73) and the section above floor 73, i.e. the "service" floors. If you look at the render, it seems these sections are at least 2 or 3 floors each..so that might be where the remaining floor numbers are made up...but im not sure right now...Will find out tomorrow.

also didn't they convert some mechanial into residential floors?

DUBAI al marsa has 5 G (which are basement in fact/car park) floors, i should have said 3 Underground basement + 4 basement + 1 G + ... :sleepy:

Yes you should.
or 3b + 4 Podium + G + 74

...Now say sorry for being all :sleepy:

Here's what Dubai Select are saying on the issue:

The building actually has 74 residential floors (the Penthouse is on floor 73, but is duplex, hence floor 74).

The building is actually 84 storey's high, which is the huge LED display/Torch at the top of the tower.

So, in conclusion: 3 basement flrs, 5 podium floors, 69 residential floors (6-74). And finally a 10 storey LED display/Torch at the top.

Hope that clarifies.

but why does the LED Display count as storeys/floors :weird:

this should be roof feature or spire whatever.

very weird.
i seriously hope this LED feature is going to be built, otherwise this one could be less than 300....

anyway, i love the idea of a 300m tall advertising board :D

Probably they will use it to sell the penthouse :)

The LED display is definately going to be built. Elsewhere, this tower is being referred to as 74 floor residential, so I think this is a more accurate, rather than to call it 84 floors. Also, the height is not in dispute here, the tower will definately be 345m high.

Its just more accurate to call it a 74 floor 345m tower, rather than 84 fl 345m tower, even though its actual height will be equivalent to 84 floors.

i see..
well that is the case everywhere, i could say burj al arab's height equals 90F as well.

anyway.

what i mean is, that roof feature might not be built, like it happened with marina crown, since they will be too expensive in the end.

but since they can use the LED for ads this might not be the case with the torch.

I'm not justifying it at all, im just suggesting thats where the "84F" came from, in the title of this thread, which i believe is what the original question referred to. I personally think its wrong, it should be referred to as 74F, 345m tower. After all, its the height of the tower that matters really, not the number of floors within.

Guys,

I know this has been debated to death and I apologise if others are fed up hearing about it but I noticed how close Damac and Infinity towers are to the edge of the marina.

Dubai Select told me that a supertall was very unlikely to be built in front of the Torch as it would be too close to the edge. Doesn't seem to have been a problem for Damac/Infinity.

Bit concerned that a supertall will be announced as soon as the Torch is sold out. I have a marina view and it seems like this is the only decent daytime view left (unless we get some unwanted neighbours in front of us).

Thoughts?

Don't want to be a pessimist but the plot map in page 4 of the new Damac tower thread shows 3 plots in front of the Torch and Marina Heights. Infinity has been marketed as 'every apartment has wonderful views' which at least a quarter now certainly don't. Developers and real estate agents lie (sorry, are economical with the truth!)

I dont think proximity to the edge of the marina is a problem... its all water proofed and artificial anyhow.

they were going to build al burj on a knife edge of a canal... so i cant see the problem with modern foundation techniques.

Its the nature of the beast, i'm afraid. Its an intrinsic risk associated with buying off-plan. Part of the reason we see "early-bird" prices being offered to investors takes into account the uncertainty of such risks, as other plots, developments and the possibilty of restrictive views once all adjacent towers are complete. Just think that the price you've paid now will be almost half of what its expected to be worth once fully complete. (OK might be a bit optimistic but thats exactly what happened to early-bird purchasers in JBR, the Palm and others).

Dead on Naz. I knew it was a risk when I agreed to buy but hoped anything in front wouldn't go higher than 30 floors or so. It's the timing that is key - I'm sure they're just waiting until the Torch is sold out before some sort of bombshell is dropped.

Imagine what prices apartments in front would fetch if the freehold law is already passed. Emaar would be rubbing their hands.

Oops better put the lid on the investment talk before someone gets upset.

oh this kinda investors talk is more or less ok, this is a general problem in dubai and it is pretty much related to what might happen on the plots closest to the marina.


It is true, developers are not telling the truth, they are not lying but they are advertising their developments with facts that are very far fetched.

Infinity had 360 view, but this was before Damac Tower was .. .well it is not announced but this might happen soon.
also, of course, they are not telling their investors another plot in front of infinty (to the sea) exists.

all developers advertise beach access for marina towers, but this is not true as well..

the torch claimed burj al arab in walking distance... have u ever walked this way at 45degress :eek: ?


i doubt the three plots close to the marina will all be built up with high rise.

the central plot could be used for the t shaped mall, a 20F hotel is supposed to be where the emaar sales office is, and the car park..well i doubt it will remain.

but still, i don't think emaar allows supertalls there.

there are height restrictions, even in the marina.

According to the plans of the marina from emaar they plan to build a 13 storey hotel max there. They have to leave the car park - its the only car park in the marina. People with apartments in Marina Heights and Torch will have good marina views no doubt about it. I think Emaar might even keep there Sales office and not build the hotel there as its all nicely done up at the moment.

No way will they build 3 towers in front of the Torch and Marina Heights

i am sure there will be two buildings apart from the sales office.
and i am convinced the car park won't remain...

So do you think the Sales Office will stay ?

If they get rid of car park this will effect the beauty of the marina from that end.

it will , definetly, but this plot is worth some 15m $ so they won't care.

i also think the sales office will be replaced, where is the need..
i hope for a multistorey car park.

A multistorey car park would be ridiculous and ugly to put there on the waterfront. It will be a hotel for sure - and I suspect still a low rise.

I think the car park infront of marina heights could be buildt on one day as the car park could be move to a plot at the back right of the tallest block.

New pictures of the Torch construction site, taken 2-3 days ago:

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43cef8cez45e33b53/mail/__sr_/b9d2re2.jpg?phYTaEEBpQb6Pk_v

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43cef8cez45e33b53/mail/__sr_/f1f4re2.jpg?phYTaEEB9Iqxj8Cd

New pictures of the Torch construction site, taken 2-3 days ago:

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43cef8cez45e33b53/mail/__sr_/b9d2re2.jpg?phYTaEEBpQb6Pk_v

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43cef8cez45e33b53/mail/__sr_/f1f4re2.jpg?phYTaEEB9Iqxj8Cd

Pics not showing. Any chance you could upload them on tinypic?

http://i2.tinypic.com/r2jmfb.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/r2jodw.jpg

I found a real estate site for all you guys
Go here: :)
http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/25/111535/ShowThread.aspx

Malec,

That thread you linked is a load of bollox. They're discussing the whole DP World row and how UAE is a hotbed for terrorism. Full of American-Evangelical-Racist-Fascist BS, of the first degree....Why would anyone interested in investing in dubai go there?

i saw those guys already and they are using our stuff :bash:

simple copy and paste. oh how i hate it.

i saw those guys already and they are using our stuff :bash:

simple copy and paste. oh how i hate it.
I read through some of the earlier parts of that thread and they seem to have a few pics and renders we don't. Also there were people asking questions purchasing properties, etc. I obviously didn't read the whole thread but there seemed to be a bit of stuff there alright. That yellow bird guy is an investor for example.

I'm sorry I posted it. I will never post again :(

:D

lol Malec! It wasn't a diss at you mate! I was just talking about these hypocrites who like to spew their anti-Arab racist garbage onto sites like that which it seems the moderators allow to slip through the net.

Immerhin etwas Aktivität!!!

Think you'll find some people are on both forums.

I read through some of the earlier parts of that thread and they seem to have a few pics and renders we don't. Also there were people asking questions purchasing properties, etc. I obviously didn't read the whole thread but there seemed to be a bit of stuff there alright. That yellow bird guy is an investor for example.

I'm sorry I posted it. I will never post again :(

:D

LOL

Today there was a soil testing machine, collecting soil samples near EMAAR's sales center, on the side facing the Torch. :runaway:

:runaway:

Oh oh, did you happen to notice any company doing that?

they are moving forward.
well 2008 completion for the whole marina, they have to hurry up with the last projects, and i don't think there are many plots left for sale.

Apparently, they're moving the Emaar Sales Centre from its current location to somewhere near Al-Majara, in a purpose built building to reflect waterfront living. Hmmm...I wonder what that means for the space between the Marina and the Torch now...perhaps another tower?

I believe EMAAR want to build a hotel there 13 storey. They have not sold the plot to anyone else as of yet. I believe certain companies have enquired about the plot but been unsuccessful hence why no one has built anything there to date.

something is happening here is an extract from Property World:

The decision to make Marina Promenade available in Dubai coincides with the temporary relocation of Emaar’s Dubai Marina Sales Centre to the Emirates Living Sales Centre within Building 1 of Emaar’s Business Park. The new Dubai Marina Sales Centre will be located near the Al Majara towers within the heart of the Marina and is due to open within the next few months where it will sport a new look to showcase waterfront living.

http://www.propertyworldme.com/content/html/1241.asp

they must have a plan for the current sales office and its plot, I agree with Flo and others that its probably going to be developed by Emaar itself, but what?!... :bash:

Apparently, they're moving the Emaar Sales Centre from its current location to somewhere near Al-Majara, in a purpose built building to reflect waterfront living. Hmmm...I wonder what that means for the space between the Marina and the Torch now...perhaps another tower?

we know of an emaar "showflat" building.

but they say the new one will be near al majara and open in 6 months.. so i doubt it.

anyway. as i said before i am convinced there will be other buildings between the marina and the torch/marina heights.

Emaar have told me there will be 3 buildings there by other developers!

Trying to get more info they dont know how big these will be.

That sounds like very bad news! It makes sense for other developers to put the tallest possible towers they can there. So even Al Million's Marina Heights penthouse could be blocked.

Awwww poor Emaar. Are they short of cash? I sincerely pray that the sale of these 3 new plots gives the good people (or is it person?) at Emaar maximum profits and helps pay for their basic necessities like food, clothing, shelter, and high-class prostitutes. Let us all join hands now in prayer, for Emaar.

Emaar have told me there will be 3 buildings there by other developers!

Trying to get more info they dont know how big these will be.

arfie is this new information? seems to contradict your own post above!

This is what Emaar told me this morning when I spoke with them. They said 3 buildings will be built by other developers they dont know how big these will be. Currently doing reasearch to see what these 3 buildings will be and how big as Emaar didnt give any more info.

Has the land been sold yet - can you check with land registry?

as much as i love supertalls, i wouldn't even like the 3 best looking and tallest towers on earth on these plots

it would ruin everything

it's getting too packed and towers ruin their own views


god damn, it's not a prison! :rant:

Yes totally agree it will ruin the beauty of the marina.

if these three plots will be built up with towers more than 25F it would be riddiculous. they cannot do that, i mean WTF :bash:

it would make sense to launch them now though, now that the torch and MH apts are sold with "marina" view ...

Exactly! If Emaar allow supertalls on these 3 plots, they must be out of their minds. There is such a thing called positioning, and someone at Emaar planning has been to best effect! That is my only criticism of an otherwise pioneer in modern day property development.

When you think of the word "marina" in your mind, you dont immediately think of a concrete jungle. It should be affluent, well spaced out, ingeniously planned, etc, otherwise the only difference between Dubai Marina and an area like Mankhool will be a few million gallons of water.

This server really sucks, the delay missed off bits off my post!

I did intend to write "someone at Emaar should take a look at an ariel picture of the marina and ask themselves if they have really used their design and planning skills to best effect."

As the appointed information officer for Dubai Select I am in constant contact with our project management team based in the UAE, and therefore felt it appropriate to step in, in place of Giles Beswick, and post on behalf of the company going forwards.

Following yesterday’s fantastic news regarding Dubai’s new property law, allowing non-nationals to register their real estate ownership with the Lands Department we thought it was a good time to share our delight at this positive development and also to bring you a construction update on The Torch itself.

Dubai Select’s consultant supervisory architects, National Engineering Bureau, have made some recent architectural refinements to The Torch plans which we are pleased to announce have been approved by Emaar subject to reviewing the Traffic Impact Study.

In line with the continued demand for properties within The Torch we have been able to offer 6 further floors of one-bedroom & two-bedroom apartments in the lower section of the building. This has been achieved by re-assigning the same number of floors higher up in the building, originally allocated for three-bedroom apartments, to the base of the building.

Whilst the original layout of these apartments has been maintained, another positive result of these refinements is that the area of these one-bedroom apartments is now approximately 6% larger than the original specifications.

In response to the plans for the plot on the marina side of The Torch (currently occupied by Emaar’s sales centre) we are not in a position to confirm any details at this stage. Naturally we are monitoring this situation very closely and if any plans become official we will be directly informing all our clients and shall post on this forum accordingly.

welcome to the forum.

Dubai Select’s consultant supervisory architects, National Engineering Bureau, have made some recent architectural refinements to The Torch plans which we are pleased to announce have been approved by Emaar subject to reviewing the Traffic Impact Study.





can you explain this point more detailed?


or is this the reason, if so i am really surprised emaar takes care of such minor things (6 more floors of 1 and 2 Bdrs means maybe 50 more persons) , the traffic impact won't be too dramatic ;)

In line with the continued demand for properties within The Torch we have been able to offer 6 further floors of one-bedroom & two-bedroom apartments in the lower section of the building. This has been achieved by re-assigning the same number of floors higher up in the building, originally allocated for three-bedroom apartments, to the base of the building.

and can you explain how you created 6 (!!) additional Floors by relocating three bedroom apts? i don't get that honestly.

this is the 2nd time additional apts have been added.

How about the pool traffic studies ! since the pool and communal areas will now be more busy than previously expected.

Why don't you take up a pseudonym and post some of the "unconfimed details" that you know of as well. I say this somewhat in jest, but with some seriousness as well. The frustration buyers often have is that things are known by the people involved and it just isn't passed on to them. They are allowed to wait for weeks and months in frustration without hearing anything. Even unconfirmed reports are welcome because they at least provide a sense that there is activity and what the nature of that activity is. Too often the customer is treated the way politicians treat the voting public. They are given a lot of spin instead being communicated with in a forthright manner.

If something is unconfirmed then I see nothing wrong in stating, "there is a possibility of this or that, however, it is not yet confirmed."

Surely, we are not all investors at this forum, but the sense I get is that investors are not getting this kind of information via any of the official channels either. What do you say Mr. Vaughan? Please give us a little more.

How would the floor numbers work. If these 6 extra floors start at the bottom would thet mean that I bought on the 6th floor so I now have an apartment on the 12th floor??

So they're replacing larger apartments with smaller ones - this really is turning into 'Chav Tower'!!!

Thats correct Sheltie.

Also, it would be interesting to note how many other similar towers have "actually" sold penthouses on the higher floors.... I bet you will be surprised that they are not exactly flying off the shelves. At least Dubai Select have done something about it and instead created more 1-bed apartments on the highest floors, which if im not mistaken, are perhaps the highest 1-bed apartments in the world right now? (Floor 73 for example).

Personally, I'd rather see all apartments in a tower sold and lived in, rather than lots of expensive empty space at the top, gathering dust.

majority of these apartments maybe bought by the British, but my guess is that mostly will be let on the local market, so who lives in them will depend on the local economy.

^^ less people mean less traffic etc, not so crowded community areas, and less maintenance needed.

so in fact i think it is a rather good thing.

anyway. le reve has still apts for sale for example.

It seems then that apartment owners will be 6 floors higher than expected. So if you bought on floor 40 for example you will now be on floor 46 but keep the same apartment number. May help to see over the top of the new mystery building going in front of the torch.

Just called Dubai Select.
The 6 additional floors includes the 3 service floors which were announced a few weeks ago as being converted into apartments. Most of us who bought under floor 54 will actually be 3 floors higher than originally expected.
Apparently the bottom section of the Torch will be 3 floors longer (or higher) and the top section of the torch (where the 3 beds are) will be 3 floors shorter shorter so our apartment sizes should remain unchanged.

I spoke to them this morning too and been told a slightly different version.

The existing floor numbers remain the same except where they used to start at floor 6 now start 1 so the new floors appear first (1-6).

The effective floors will be higher but the numbers for existing floors stay the same.

Please "Dubai Select" how difficult is it to come up with clear percise information :bash:

I believe the correct information, as confirmed by the consensus on here as well as Dubai Select, is that 6 additional floors (containing 1 and 2 bed apts) will be added to the bottom of the tower (from above the podium). The Podium remains exactly as is. So for example, if your apartment was on floor 20, you will now be floor 26. However, the apartment numbers will not change, as the new fls 1-6 additional block at the base will be called Plaza 0, Plaza 1, etc etc. (not sure if the exact word "Plaza" was used, but lets assume so for argument sake).

sensational news

Which tower is blocking the view in front of the torch? Also, aren't the owner's pissed that they were promised amazing views but might actually get stuck with just looking at the ugly guy scratching his butt in the balcony of the opposite building? :D

Docc u can be nasty lol

Press Release from Dubai Select:

February 1st, 2006

Dubai Select are proud to announce the appointment of the National Engineering Bureau as supervisory architects for the Torch construction.

As part of the consultations prior to awarding the construction contract to Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE) Dubai Select sought advice about the ongoing architecture phases. DCE indicated a preference for working with UAE based National Engineering Bureau (NEB) throughout the architectural supervision of their contract.

Khatib & Alami originally submitted proposals for a multi-phase design, build and supervisory architecture tender for The Torch. They were appointed initially for the first phase and have completed their role as concept architects to a high standard.

Khatib Alami have been fully paid for their excellent contribution to The Torch and will continue to put their name to it.

Dubai Select felt that NEB would be better placed to execute this contract to ensure that the construction of The Torch is completed at cost and on time for the benefit of all owners, and have increased the spending on this important part of the project in order to make this appointment.

NEB are a large company working as consultants on numerous billion-dirham developments in Dubai, with a specific track record in supervising high-rise projects up to 80 storeys.

^^ is it me or this news passed everyone else as well.

Khatib & Alami have been replaced!

How many of you guys brought an apartment in some hotel in London or Manchester, prior to visiting Dubai and the proposed plot?

would be interested in the REAL reason for that.

one thing is for sure, it won't make this development much faster...

Dubaiflo ...looks like he bought in HOTEL IN London or MANCHESTER ....bEFORE VISITING dUBAI

There are 2 things that are almost certain in this industry. 1). Developers will change a whole host of things, from design right down to the colour of the bathroom tiles, probably as often as they change their underwear. Thats the law..and you cant avoid it. And 2). Nearly every developer will try their utmost to save costs and efficiency will be a top priority, once again a fact of life, we have to live with it.

Where the real difference in these various developers lies is in what and when they tell their investors. And I must admit, all in all, Dubai Select have been rather good in this issue. In fact, I knew about the 6 floors additions, plus the converting of 3-bed apts into 1-bed ones on the highest floors about 2 weeks ago.

And I am regularly kept informed through the Dubai Select log in area and personal emails from Dubai.

I have personally come across much worse than Dubai Select, not that I need to name such companies, but generally I haven't found anything to complain about yet. As for the future, lets just wait and see.

There are 2 things that are almost certain in this industry. 1). Developers will change a whole host of things, from design right down to the colour of the bathroom tiles, probably as often as they change their underwear. Thats the law..and you cant avoid it. And 2). Nearly every developer will try their utmost to save costs and efficiency will be a top priority, once again a fact of life, we have to live with it.

Where the real difference in these various developers lies is in what and when they tell their investors. And I must admit, all in all, Dubai Select have been rather good in this issue. In fact, I knew about the 6 floors additions, plus the converting of 3-bed apts into 1-bed ones on the highest floors about 2 weeks ago.

And I am regularly kept informed through the Dubai Select log in area and personal emails from Dubai.

I have personally come across much worse than Dubai Select, not that I need to name such companies, but generally I haven't found anything to complain about yet. As for the future, lets just wait and see.

Update!!! How far they are with the hole??

Construction updates from the Dubai Select website:

http://i1.tinypic.com/rlmlaw.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/rlmlph.jpg

beautiful

THX a lot Naz UK.

Hope we get some pics from this weekend!!!

A further story one of my colleagues in Dubai has told me today is the plan in front of the Torch is a hotel not super tall and a couple or more restaurants. If thats the case would be great would mean stunning views of the marina still.

How long does this process of securing the earth/sand around the boarder and then excavating usually take? If that is indeed what they're doing!?

anybody to confirm what is the max height for the building in the emaar office???

DubaiSelect said 15F when they sold the apartments. However, dubaiflo is now saying Emaar have allowed up to 60F on all 3 plots in front of the Torch and Marina Heights. Still all rumours at this stage, will have to wait for hard facts yet.

Emaar have sold the plot I guess its upto the developer how big a building they build. #

Just hope Dubai Select are somehow able to negotiate with the developer building in front not to build a hugh Skyscraper.

Just for the Marina sake i hope there are no tall skyscapers there some nice small ones which will give a nice feel to the marina as well something like 20f max that way the Torch and Marina Heights will look really good in the back ground as well.

However, dubaiflo is now saying Emaar have allowed up to 60F on all 3 plots in front of the Torch and Marina Heights.

Flo is that correct, I always read you saying you are convinced there wouldn't be any tall buildings there! Do you have new information?

yes but unfortunately this is what i was told.

and indeed i was convinced this wouldn't happen. :(
sorry for all you guys there.

nevertheless this is not yet confirmed. check this thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=324268&page=3&pp=25

Dubaiflo ...looks like he bought in HOTEL IN London or MANCHESTER ....bEFORE VISITING dUBAI

I did not buy an apartment in the Torch, and certainly didn't stump up a load of money before viewing the Marina. There wasn't a chance in hell I was going to take a word of a sales rep (that's never been) to Dubai as gospel.

"Best views of the marina" - I'll make my own mind up, thank you very much.

oneticket

Where have you brought then

I did not buy an apartment in the Torch, and certainly didn't stump up a load of money before viewing the Marina. There wasn't a chance in hell I was going to take a word of a sales rep (that's never been) to Dubai as gospel.

"Best views of the marina" - I'll make my own mind up, thank you very much.


Onetick,

I wish I was as smart as you.

Perhaps you can enlighten us all by explaining which developers around the Marina have salespeople we can 100% trust?

Never trust a sales person all they want is our money. For a honest decision you will have to work it out yourself.

Jetsetter - I am not very smart. There is no one you can trust 100%, but what you can do it go to the site, stand there, look with your eyes, and then use you brain. I'll leave the rest to you.

Misson - I brought in TimePlace, like yourself.

Good lad Onetickin

Which one did you buy on?

I think you guys seem to forgetting one very important point - It might not be the fault of the developers. If at the time of the sales, the developers themselves do not know about what is going to happen with other plots around their sites, then they cannot be accused of misleading or lying. The only time you can accuse a developer of deception is when they clearly knew of forthcoming tower plans but deliberately withheld the information from investors to increase their chances of a sale. And until we have clear evidence of such, there's no point venting your anger at the developers, who are often in the dark as much as you and me....

Where you CAN legitimately vent your anger is at EMAAR, the master developer of Dubai Marina. It is only down to sheer bad planning and greed that such problems as totally blocked views, etc will happen. Good planning of a development such as the Marina is key and they should have considered this as a major priority when planning and selling plots to developers. I have just today raised this issue with a developer with a view to it being passed on to Emaar. It may be that nothing will change, but until we all vent our anger at the right people, nothing is ever likely to change in the future.

I don't know what Emaar said, or not to developers, but I very much doubt they would guarantee any developers that they would get unrivalled views in their contracts.

It is then up to developers to advertise, how they see fit. If the developers mis-interupted their contracts with Emaar, that's their fault.

Dubai Select were told directly by Emaar that there would be a 15F to 18F building there when they purchased the land and instructed the design.

Other companies were then told recently by Emaar that a 13F Hotel would be constructed there.

So far there is nothing contradicting this information. Only some rumours started by dubaiflo.

If the rumours become true then obviously Emaar is at fault here.

Jetsetter - I am not very smart. There is no one you can trust 100%, but what you can do it go to the site, stand there, look with your eyes, and then use you brain. I'll leave the rest to you.

Misson - I brought in TimePlace, like yourself.

Agree with onetikin, I went last year to Dubai , stood on the plot and was not convinced that a marina view is guaranteed. I bought in the Trident Grand Residence instead and so far have no regrets.

I bought high up in the Torch for a premium on the understanding that there would be a 15-18F building in front of the Torch as set out by Emaar. I guess there is always risk that Emaar will later change their planning permissions as they are not known to be a trustworthy or honest company.

The Marina view is obviously a major factor in Dubai Select's decision to purchase the plot from Emaar. Now, taking this in mind, wouldn't it have been prudent for Dubai Select to have this in the contract?

I am not sure if DS has this in their land purchase contract or not. I am guessing that they do not in which case they are to blame for some extent. (if the rumour from dubaiflo is indeed true)

Me too mate!!! - I paid a premium to get a better aspect with a Marina view!! - if i knew there was a sky scaper gonna be built in front why would I wanna pay a 30k premium over a side aspect.

I think Dubai Select should atleast give us back the price premiums we paid to have the better aspect view - The same appartment on the same floor, with a different view (ie sea facing or golf club facing) was approc £30k cheaper!!!

Do you reckon there is anything we can do about this Dubai_Steve ??




I bought high up in the Torch for a premium on the understanding that there would be a 15-18F building in front of the Torch as set out by Emaar. I guess there is always risk that Emaar will later change their planning permissions as they are not known to be a trustworthy or honest company.

If the view is completely blocked then also there is no advantage to being higher up in the tower (which is more expensive) yet alone front facing. In fact then sea view should also have a premium over marina facing view as there will always be a sea view between the gap in the road to which the balconies are angled at. So perhaps sea view owners should be made to swap with marina view owners (now that would cause a fuss!)

Still remember this is all rumour and speculation at the moment. For all we know it still could be a nice 13F luxury hotel with restaurants and shops all around instead of the ugly car park. Would hold on for a while.

Probably not guys, because you've already signed your contracts. Personally, i'm not in the same situation as you people who have bought Marina facing apartment coz I chose a sea-view, knowing full well of the 4 towers infront.

I went for sea facing mainly due to the realisation of the possibility of towers being built to block the marina view and also because the apartment will mainly be let out to holiday makers, who are not overly concerned with views. The sea views were also a lot cheaper than marina view apts.

I guess then DS should refund all marina facing to be in line with sea view owners and then slap a lawsuit on Emaar for this amount.

Emaar are only at fault, if they have stipulated something in their contracts with the developers, and fail to deliver.

Emaar are not responsible for how DS, or how any other developer pitch their sales to the public.

Ok if there is nothing in their land contract then I guess then DS should refund all marina facing to be in line with sea view owners and slap a lawsuit on themselves for this amount.

I totally agree with you Steve!! - Dubai Select are selling the fact of the Marina View and charging a premium for it. It is only fair then should we have no marina view we are compensated back for it!!


I guess then DS should refund all marina facing to be in line with sea view owners and then slap a lawsuit on Emaar for this amount.

DS say they were told by Emaar that it would be 15-18F. They did not mention any written contract. So for all we know DS could have made this up in which case this is unfair business practise by DS.

This is all hypothetical at this point - nothing is yet confirmed

I was told they had a letter for Emaar stating that it would be 15-18Floors. I was also told that because of the proximity to the water that they could not build high. Also I have been told that the plot size in front of the Torch could not support such a high rise. Is this true or BS??

DS say they were told by Emaar that it would be 15-18F. They did not mention any written contract. So for all we know DS could have made this up in which case this is unfair business practise by DS.

This is all hypothetical at this point - nothing is yet confirmed

What do you think your chances of getting compensation back from DS? Read your contract, don't just take the word of a sales rep that has received 2 weeks of training, and never been to Dubai.

You can forget getting compensation from DS - contracts are contracts and there are sufficient caveats built into our contracts which allow DS to change the rules whenever they want.

DS told me that they could not guarantee marina views and I’m pretty sure that the 15F assurance from Emaar was a verbal assurance and not built into their contract with DS.

I think the DS/Emaar contract is more likely to include a stipulation that the plots in front of the Torch could not be developed before a certain date i.e. to allow DS to sell almost all the apartments in the Torch.

Financially, it makes no difference to DS if they sell every apartment and the views all get blocked. Their reputation would however, be in pretty bad shape if supertalls were built in front of the Torch and having so many disgruntled customers.

As some have stated, all of this is hypothetical and so there is nothing we can do about it now. Fingers crossed that the original assurance of 15-18F holds true.

You're jumping the gun a bit here. No point talking about compensation when nothing whatsoever has been confirmed either way, about the plots in front of the Torch. We all just have to wait until we hear definite facts.

I was also told that because of the proximity to the water that they could not build high. Also I have been told that the plot size in front of the Torch could not support such a high rise. Is this true or BS??

proximity to the water :rofl:
infinity tower is being buit 10m from the water. and this one is 80F..

plot size in front of the torch too small?

it is way bigger than most of the other plots in the marina.

so it is BS.

but still guys, calm down.

nothing is confirmed yet.

nevertheless, just judging by what emaar has done so far and what i was told, i think it is likely there will not only be a 15F hotel there.

anyway, let's wait and see.

but sorry guys, i am pretty sure you can totally forget to get ANY compensation from ANYONE.

Marina Facing is approx. 2.2% premium over Sea Facing and Marina View and 12% premium over Seaview

It's all specualation at the moment, so don't get ahead of yourselves.

A long time ago when I was at school, a boy once told me to lend him £4 and he would give me £6 in a week. A week later, I learnt a very valuable lesson in life. A lot of words are worthless.

I was told they had a letter for Emaar stating that it would be 15-18Floors. I was also told that because of the proximity to the water that they could not build high. Also I have been told that the plot size in front of the Torch could not support such a high rise. Is this true or BS??
That's pure bullshit. Infinity tower is really close to the water and since Emaar will squeeze an even taller tower in between infinity and the road it's clear that nothing Emaar says can be taken as a guarantee

I am getting a sinking feeling about all this......................

If they are going to build high rises, then lets just hope they're as good looking as Princess, Al-Marsa, Le-Reve and Marina Crown! I'd rather be staring out at a stunner, than having the sun blocked by some ugly thing.

Why cant someone from Emaar put us all out of our misery and confirm what is going to be built in the 3 plots. Who would be the person with this information ??
Anyone have any idea ?? Who is the person that grants the planning permission ??
Someone needs to speak with the ultimate descision maker.

Does anyone here know anybody, or can get any names with regards to what permission has been granted for the plots in front or the torch and marina heights.

I guess that there will be a lot of resales on the Torch because of the uncertanty

Only dubaiflo knows the details but he will not say his source. :bash:

Lets start a "Boycott dubaiflo" until he spills the beans :)

I wonder if that guy on SSC who claimed to be a designer for Emaar knows anything - can not remember his name at the moment.

^^ :rofl:

guys, seriously , i know a tiny bit more, but this is not very important, and i have my source but that's it.

i cannot really tell you more, i am only forwarding information i got to know.

i don't want anyone to be scared , to sell his apt or blame dubai select.
i am merely telling u what i know.

but as u all know emaar wants to make money and so it seems likely this will happen, also, and i admit that, i also believe there won't be more than a 15F hotel there at first.

how abt torch investors get together n storm emaar office for some answers

OMG, Krazy, you mean physically???.....Erm....im not er...the violent type....sure we can resolve the issue with peaceful means like smashing a few cars, rioting....oops..i mean writing to them?

BTW, i did try that several times...but the idiots have an "unfunctional feedback/contact us" section....the message dont go through. Deliberate I reckon.

I tell you, i'm just waiting for Mr Alabaar's next visit to the UK, when i'm gona corner him on the spot and ask him some very very difficult questions! (Like how does he fancy wearing a blue overall and doing some bricklaying for me, up a 60 storey building, in return for $6 and a chocolate biscuit...)

All I can say is that if they build anything big in front of these towers, there will be 100's more people spreading negative views about Dubai. I don't care how much money Emaar stand to make short-term, they'll be losing more in the long-run.

The 'biggest property developer in the world' can't take the piss out of customers ...

<crosses fingers for sub-20 floor towers>

Ok guys you seem to be taking this all very badly.

firstly, you bought off plan. It has risks [sorry nobody told you, but a lack of common sense and general knowlege are not grounds for compensation]

you were more than happy to chatter about and laud your great investment wisdom when you thought you had a bargain. well now im afraid you might be on a downer, so you will have toughen up a bit. you have ordered your bed.... when it comes you will have to lie in it.

secondly, it is no secret to anyone that that plot was going to be built on. in fact i was there when they opened that building in [99?]. and they said that day that there would be a tower built there. when a gentleman asked why they didnt just convert that building, he said the replacement would have 'many stories'. Emaar have said since on several occasions that the building will be demolished. so there is no use acting shocked 7 years down the line.

you are also being slightly hypercrytical. when the torch was announced, it interfeared with views from other towers, so its just a case of history repeating.

thirdly you can whine to Emaar all you like. its not their fault, the only people you have to blame are yourselves, and maybe Dubai Select if they told you anything about this new tower. emmar have never officaly relesed any details about what they plan to do with the site other than what i have just said.

Im sorry for all of you. but on the other hand.... maybe you shouldnt be so arrogent to assume you know better than the investors from dubai itself.

^^ some good points there.

it only depends on what emaar has told dubai select (which is stated in their contract for the plot) and what Dubai select told their investors (also only written statements are valueable).

I assume none of the contracts includes guaranteed marina view, therefore nobody will get compensation or anything.

but now let us wait until we got confirmed information.

and nick, please stop to spell it eMMar, it is emAAr .. :bash:
i told you so a thoudand times :D

Flo, stop spelling thousand as "thoudand"....i told you a million times!

BTW Dubai, speak for yourself there mate! I am still more than delighted with my apartment! Trust me! Never been happier.

yours doesnt face the big ugly!














...yet

Naz, it's not "million" it's "milllllion"--


puhleez!!

Only way your going to get a marina view is if Dubai Select put big HD plasma TVs instead of windows showing a picture from a camera in front of the new building, with a halogen lamp to simulate natural day light.

http://digitaltigers.com/images/zv-powerscape-ultrahd_rf700x250.jpg

well it doesn't add up in my view. If the land has been sold to other developers for residential towers, they would have launched the towers by now before starting construction.

All other independent towers were launched and sold before even a single worker appearing on site (Infinity, Torch, Mag, Princess,...) they simply need to raise the money before start.

So probably a big shot hotel developer or Emaar themselves are developing the plots.

"Dubai" we always knew that there will be development in front of Torch but the surprise/shock is in 3 60+ towers.

Well nevermind joys of off-plan investment! :)

agree with Gorilla.

One tower we kind of knew about, however 3 a bit of a shame, unless the low level Marina Yacht club, shopping parking etc idea.

05/06 apts will still be able to see the Marina if you look at the other thread with the recent photos - albeit through the gaps.

If talls are built we'll end up with the same situation as the Grosvenor House pool - sunlight for 3 hours a day!

www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=324268&page=1&pp=25

Guys guys guys - where has all the love gone.

Would it really be the end of the world if towers were built in front. Sure, there would be natural disappointment for those who believed that they would have 'unrivalled views'. This is more of an issue for investors who intend living in the Torch and staring out of their windows all day.

Yes a premium was paid for marina views, but the apartments could still be advertised to holiday-makers as 'marina view' if the marina can be viewed through gaps in front.

Consider apartments close to the marina in Monte Carlo that dont have a view of the marina - would they be worth substantially less than marina view apartments? Still a damned good investment I'd say.

If i was going to shell out the cash to fly all the way to dubai, and there athousands of apartments on the market [which their are] the majority with waterfrount views. i will be oh so tempted to go for an apartment that doesnt.

Damn.


Good investment.

"Dubai" we always knew that there will be development in front of Torch but the surprise/shock is in 3 60+ towers.



stop. i got told 40 to 60F, not 60+!

"Dubai" we always knew that there will be development in front of Torch but the surprise/shock is in 3 60+ towers.

Well nevermind joys of off-plan investment! :)


well its hardly a surprise considering the size of every other building on that block!

^^ :rofl:

but as u all know emaar wants to make money and so it seems likely this will happen, also, and i admit that, i also believe there won't be more than a 15F hotel there at first.

Flo, I'm confused - when you say 40-60F - are you talking about 1 tower or 3? Not in line with the above quote??

Maybe the 6 floor extension by DS could save the day for some!

3 towers ranging from 40 to 60F is what i got to know.
+ 1 building between the torch and marina heights.

my post is wrong, it should have been "believed"

Totally agree with every word "Dubai", you mentioned earlier. If, there are other towers built in those plots, the only people The Torch puchasers have to blame is themselves and DS.

I doubt Emaar would have stipulated anything in their contracts with DS about guarantee Marina views, and likewise I doubt DS would have stipulated anything in their contracts with purchasers.

A lot of people chatting shit here now. I guess its too much for some ppl to just wait for boring things like..er..FACTS! They just love to kill time with pointless speculation.

Cant think why some ppl revel in the hope of other ppl's misfortune...hmm...guess its the old deep-rooted sadistic joy of other ppl's destruction, to make themselves feel better about their own situations (and investments).

Naz u r on the point there

Same thing happened in the Marina Heights thread when the Torch was announced ...

Yes, because there is no better spectacle than watch someone who has arrogantly "blowing their own trumpet", having to eat humble pie.

sorry to you all i am. but honestly, it was bound to happen.

here's an idea. why dont you guys sell your units while they still are valued as having Marina Views.

wait for the new tower to be announced. then buy into that one.

Dubai, you derranged individual, how is buying an apartment (ill-informed or otherwise) blowing your own trumpet?

You got serious personal issues it seems. Can't you find another channel to vent them out on? perhaps..www.playboy.com???

BTW, still happy as ever with my "sea-view" apartment. Does that really piss you off Dubai? LOL m))

not realy. your trolling peterbs me.

but no. im much happier with my own investments at home.

lol You moved from Manchester to Surrey? What happened, did the chavs get to ya? hehehe

I'd have thought someone who grew up in a council estate in Manchester would have appreiciated something like Dubai Marina, views or no views!!!!

erm.... im from dubai...

i grew up in za'abeel.

and im sure you know where that is.

Where the real difference in these various developers lies is in what and when they tell their investors. And I must admit, all in all, Dubai Select have been rather good in this issue. In fact, I knew about the 6 floors additions, plus the converting of 3-bed apts into 1-bed ones on the highest floors about 2 weeks ago.

And I am regularly kept informed through the Dubai Select log in area and personal emails from Dubai.


Well I beg to differ. First I heard about the reconfiguration was this week just gone, despite the fact that it arguably affects me more than any other buyer because I reserved 5206 and 5306 - which should have been the best two-bed apartments in the development as there were none higher up and the type 06 has the best views.

Had I been told about it before it happened I might have asked to switch my reservations to the *new* top two 2-bedders, but by the time they bothered to inform me about the changes these had been reserved.

So far they're proposing to make it up to me by offering me further properties in the development, admittedly with a small discount, but at a higher price than I originally bought at...

DUBAI - I think that deep down you're not a happy person are you - I do detect issues from your last few posts.

Most of the people I know who go on holiday do not sit an apartment all day staring out of a window - maybe that's what you do - sitting in front of a window in Dubai typing up posts on this forum. Most people I know get out and about and join civilisation.

I know investing in the Torch is not risk-free and smart-arse 'told-you-so' comments do not concern me for one solitary second. I'm happy to have purchased an apartment in Dubai marina (which I believe will be a location hotspot in Dubai) and couldn't give a monkeys about what you see out of your window.

fair play.

all i was saying is that there is a lot of competition.

MisterMark, with all due respect, DS didnt just decide to inform me and no one else! I pestered the hell outta them! You have to, if you take ur investment seriously. I was ringing them literally every day, sometimes several times a day. But whenever any information was confirmed, they were, and still are, quick to inform me.

I can only go by my own experience. But if you have any issues, please do personally raise them personally with DS, either in the UK or Dubai.

Spot on Jetsetter....exactly the sentiments of most investors in the Torch (or humble-pie eating idiots, as Dubai likes to call us all)...we bought as an investment, not to use the balconies for wonderful oil-paintings of the "unrivalled sea/marina views" whilst listening to Tchaicovksy!

We understand most holiday-makers have lives, and dont sit around all day admiring the views (or lack of them). I was stayed in the Marina in January for 7 nights but spend most of my time outside, enjoying Dubai.

Yes, i do know where Zabeel is. But why are you so angry all the time, Dubai Version 2.0?...did they knock your house down to make way for the new park, or something? That would explain it.

MISTERMARK - Not sure whether I've got this right, but the way I understand it is that six new floors are being added at the very bottom of the tower (by taking out six of the three beds floors much further up ie. somewhere above floor 55 where the three beds start from) so essentially everybody is "moved up" six floors. So I would have thought that your 5206 apartment would become 5806 (although it would still be numbered 5206) and likewise your 5306 would be lifted up to floor 59. So...you would still have the top two floors of the two beds............or doesn't it work like this then ??

MISTERMARK - Not sure whether I've got this right, but the way I understand it is that six new floors are being added at the very bottom of the tower (by taking out six of the three beds floors much further up ie. somewhere above floor 55 where the three beds start from) so essentially everybody is "moved up" six floors. So I would have thought that your 5206 apartment would become 5806 (although it would still be numbered 5206) and likewise your 5306 would be lifted up to floor 59. So...you would still have the top two floors of the two beds............or doesn't it work like this then ??


It's exactly as you have described Morris.

If the 3 towers in front end up being 40+ floors (as opposed to near 60) then some of the higher 2 beds in the Torch may still get their marina views. I bought on floor 48 which will now be on the 54th floor so it could be touch and go for me - ah well - not the view all and end all i suppose.

when i bought my 05 aspect it was sold to me as "supertall facing", so I couldn't be happier.

Glad you confimed my thoughts are right Jetsetter. Everybody who bought one or two beds (and some of the three beds as well) should be really pleased that they are all going up six floors, nobody has lost out here (unless the lift breaks down and we have to climb the stairs !!!) so can't understand why Mistermark is unhappy or why Dubai Select have offered some sort of compensation for this. Beats me completely. My one bed would have cost an extra 42,840 dirhams to be six floors higher, so I'm very pleased. I'm really intrigued why Mistermark is so upset about this, doesn't make sense at all to me.

MisterMark obviously just did not get how the Floor numbers changed. that's it.

he will obviously rather glad now.

Good point Morris - your 40k dirham saving for 6 floors higher is not to be sniffed at - certainly helps compensate a bit for any lost view.

I'll be very interested to see the prices for the supertalls in front.

Now that the freehold law has been passed, I wouldn't be surprised if they cost at least 25% more than the equivalent apartment in the Torch.

If this is the case, then I'd happily keep the Torch apartment with a 25% discount for my 'rivalled view'

Actualy i dont think it has impacted prices too much.

in fact a couple of villas in springs 7 are actualy cheaper now than they were at the begining of the month.

I'm sure the passing of the freehold law will lift Dubai property prices but this of course is not going to happen overnight. I'd have been surprised if prices had gone up 25% during the last two weeks but over say 12 to 18 months this could happen. (Oh my God !!!!... I'm really sorry........just realised...I've been lured into talking about investments again).
Regarding the "supertalls" in front of the Torch I've just had a phone call from Mr Alabbar at Emaar and he's told me he's always looking at this forum and he's unhappy about all these rumours and that permission has only been granted for a row of old-aged pensioners bungalows........so there's nothing to worry about after all.

Glad you confimed my thoughts are right Jetsetter. Everybody who bought one or two beds (and some of the three beds as well) should be really pleased that they are all going up six floors, nobody has lost out here (unless the lift breaks down and we have to climb the stairs !!!) so can't understand why Mistermark is unhappy or why Dubai Select have offered some sort of compensation for this. Beats me completely. My one bed would have cost an extra 42,840 dirhams to be six floors higher, so I'm very pleased. I'm really intrigued why Mistermark is so upset about this, doesn't make sense at all to me.


It's because I think you may have the wrong end of the stick about the extra one and two-bedders. Originally the highest two-bedders were on the 53rd floor. Now we're all moving up by six floors *and* the three-bed floors are being reconfigured as twos *and* one or more double-height service floors are being turned into singles to accommodate more apartments.

As a result the top floor comprised of two-bedders will be the 65th and those of us who bought on say the 53rd floor thinking we had the best two-bedders in the building are not getting what we thought we were paying for...

I'm sure the passing of the freehold law will lift Dubai property prices but this of course is not going to happen overnight. I'd have been surprised if prices had gone up 25% during the last two weeks but over say 12 to 18 months this could happen. (Oh my God !!!!... I'm really sorry........just realised...I've been lured into talking about investments again).
Regarding the "supertalls" in front of the Torch I've just had a phone call from Mr Alabbar at Emaar and he's told me he's always looking at this forum and he's unhappy about all these rumours and that permission has only been granted for a row of old-aged pensioners bungalows........so there's nothing to worry about after all.


^^ no way there will be a row of old ages pensioners bungalows.
never ever.

but it is true, emaar rep have a look at this forum indeed.

bungalows for old-age pensioners? :hahaha:

Sorry Mistermark, I had no idea they were re-configuring the three beds I just thought they were taking six floors of them away. Does this mean that there will be no three beds at all now ??? Perhaps they didn't sell any of them ???
I can understand your point of view now and that you may have an issue with this. I suppose at the end of the day you're going up six floors which is a bit of a bonus.
I wonder if there will be enough car parking spaces for everybody now that there will be so many extra units in the tower.

I hope all this "re-configuring" doesn't spoil the look of the Torch. I know DS have said the base is going to be a bit wider and the tower will be less tapered. The service areas gave it a really nice look, separating the different stages, making it look a bit like a space rocket I suppose. Which is why I bought at the Torch.... I just loved the look of the thing. I really hope it'll still look as good..... somehow I'm not so sure. Would be nice if they could issue a new render of the building.

^^ i doubt the tower's design has changed...

malec, in fact those were shown in this ancient marina drawing :D

but well, nice joke :hahaha: