has anyone got prices on those pensioners bungalows?

well the phase 1 villas on the marina edge seem to sell for about 20% more than similar sized ones in hills, medows, lakes e.t.c...

AARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

that sounds good value, although i here emaar have just sold the entire marina's edge to an unscrupulous developer who plans to build a 100F brick wall around the entire thing, thereby obscuring everyones view. you can however rent freehold holes in the wall to stare at the water through. any takers?

The price of a lot of villas has actually fallen this year (and in the last half of 2005) whereas apartment prices continue to rise, throughout. Some ppl have lost 10% off the value of their villas, i read this in either KT or GN, can't remember what development, probably Emirate Hills or similar.

thats because the majority of villa developments have been completed, wheras the majority of apartments are due for completion over the next 2 years.


ARRRRRRRARRRRRRRRARRR

I have read several postings and as I am looking to invest in a Marina 1Bed, I would appreciate an honest view on Dubai Select.
Also, how much could I expect to pay for 1bed on the 3rd floor? 302!

plot map discussion...

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=141641&page=24&pp=20

Has anyone heard anymore about the plots between the Torch and the Marina yet?

See the link posted by Krazy for maps, diagrams, photos and discussion about those plots and the rest of the area.

Rest assured, as soon as any news is known it will be posted on here...meanwhile..work in progress through the night:
http://i2.tinypic.com/spg21u.jpg

from construction weekly...it says its 360m...not sure if it includes the bit at the top though...

Saturday, 1 April, 2006
Piling into work on 360m Torch Tower
by Zoe Naylor

Piling and work underway in Dubai Marina on what will be one of the tallest residential towers in the world.
Dubai has earned the well-deserved moniker of ‘the city of superlatives’ — and the new US $191 million (AED700 million) Torch Tower, which is currently under construction in Dubai Marina, is no exception. When complete, the 360m-high superstructure will be one of the tallest new residential buildings in the world.

And a tower project such as this demands a range of cutting edge construction techniques, especially in the design stages. From the piling and ultra high-strength concrete, right through to a tower crane-mounted web cam to show overseas customers up-to-date progress of construction, the project team is aiming to deliver maximum quality in the minimum amount of time.

Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE) is the main contractor on the job, with National Engineering Bureau (NEB) as the design consultant, developing the original architectural concept from Khatib & Alami (K&A). Zublin Ground & Civil Engineering is the contractor for the piling and shoring works. The firm started work on site in February, and is nearing completion of its package.

“The secant pile wall is formed using a continuous 90cm diameter pile, incorporating an ‘over-cutting’ technique. This pile wall includes a three-layer anchor system to withstand the earth and water pressures,” says Holgar Wolfle, the project manager for Zublin. The main structure foundation piles are driven into the ground to a depth of 50m and have been re-designed to incorporate larger diameter piles under the central core spine, where the greatest pressure exists, to increase the stability of the structure.

According to Wolfle, on three sides of the site the shoring system is already finished with only the anchor layer still to be installed. The remaining side, which completes the shoring system, will be formed using a 1.2m-diameter pile that does not require any anchors. “After we’ve finished the shoring works, we will start the excavation and then the dewatering,” adds Wolfe. The rest of the dewatering will go down below the final excavation depth. “We are not lowering the water table outside of the site, only inside.”

Main contractors DCE will take over as soon as Zublin finishes the piling. “We’re looking to come in around August or September 2006,” says Venu Menon, project director, DCE. “We will start off by cutting the piles and doing the excavation for the four basement floors,” he adds.

The tower will comprise four basements plus a further four floors above the ground — a total of eight floors for car parking. Above these will be the leisure deck, with the residential area beginning on floor six. There also will be access to the roof to allow residents a panoramic view of the skyline. “The four basement floors, the parking floors and the leisure deck will each take up an area of around 3400m2 per floor. Once we start the residential units, this will decrease to around 1100m2 per floor,” says Menon.

The building will then be brought up gradually using slip form formwork, provided by DCE, to cast the floors. “DCE has an in-house slip form division which will be slipping the core,” explains Menon, “and we will always be three to four floors ahead of the slab.” The concrete for the floor slab will be 4m thick. All the slabs will be post-tensioned, again by DCE — the company was in fact one of the first to bring post-tensioning to the UAE market.

“We’ve done around 150 towers in Dubai and Sharjah — in Dubai Marina last year we handled over eight towers, and we currently have another seven in various stages of completion,” says Menon. He says that all DCE jobs use post-tensioned flat slabs. “This has the definite advantage of not having any drop beams, which makes life easier for the mechanical services, and speeds up the job.”

One of the most striking features of the tower (and the one that gives it its name) is the large LED display, which will be installed at the top of the building. The fully programmable iconic screen is likely to measure 30 to 40m in length, with the display being formed into a flame-shaped poly-carbon structure at the top of the tower. “This could be used as an artistic decoration feature, which could be displayed on the screen,” explains David Mullen, project manager at Dubai Select (the project’s developer).

A building of this height demands very high-strength concrete. “Tall structures will have a certain degree of movement nearing the top and it is normal to expect lateral sway of around 30cm in structures of this height. “In the floor sections we will be using 60-Newton concrete, and in some of the lower columns, 100 Newtons; but typically the building will be around 80 Newtons,” says Mullen.

Cladding on the building will be a mixture of aluminium and
glass and will be provided by DCE. “The lead time now for glass is about 12 weeks,” says Menon. “We have a licence to use an American profile and we buy the glass locally. “But aluminium is no problem since we have our own extrusion factory in Dubai Investments Park,” he adds.

“There are very few things we don’t do in-house, but one is readymix,” admits Menon. “We buy this from firms such as RMC and Unimix.” He says that tower projects demand one readymix supplier right from the beginning: “After eight or 10 floors you need to have a hydraulic placing boom and a stationary pump. And the supplier of this boom and pump won’t allow any other supplier to pump concrete through their equipment.”

Despite the plot’s location slap bang in the heart of Dubai Marina, Menon says that he is not anticipating any problems with delivery of materials: “Three sides of this site are surrounded by an asphalted road. And once the parking floors are built, we’ll use them as a storage area for all the finishing materials to help maximise space.”

In a bold manouevre, Dubai Select pre-agreed a contract price — around US $191 million (AED700 million) — with DCE at the start of the project. “We’ve guaranteed a maximum price we’re going to pay DCE, and we believe we’re the first to do that in the UAE,” says Mullen. But what happens if the price of steel, for example, shoots up again? Not a problem, according to Menon: “We have arrangements in place if there are substantial price increases,” he says. “Rebar is a potential problem, as we used to source it from a factory, but now we’ve set up our own facility in Jebel Ali, which will go into production in a month’s time.”

While DCE appears to have most bases covered thanks to its sizeable in-house capabilities, Dubai Select has decided to add a high-tech touch to the project by making use of web cam technology to show its Torch Tower customers what stage construction is at. “Around 80% of the tower has already been sold, mainly to customers in the UK, so we decided to install a web cam on site, so people can access the project wherever they may be,” explains Mullen. “It is new for our customers, and as far as we know it’s new for Dubai. We’re going to move the web cam around the site, so people can see the entire construction process,” he adds.

The quality of the construction process will come under close scrutiny via a long-term facilities management (FM) programme that has been devised by Dubai Select. “We’re already looking at the maintenance of the block and have devised a 10 to 20-year facilities management programme, which will include checking the post-tensioning for the concrete and looking at the fixing points,” explains Mullen. “We have around 30 contractors in line for the FM contract with bids due back in the next few weeks.” Although the FM award won’t be made until after the first year of maintenance from DCE, Mullen says it’s important to get the procedures in place now. “Look around and you’ll see we’re in a very dynamic market — contractors are over-stretched, and if you don’t get them signed up in advance there may not be any available.”

When the building is completed it is likely to be another landmark in the city of Dubai, according to Adnan Rahhal, project manager at NEB. “It’s going to be a unique tower in terms of its shape, height and location,” he says. “There aren’t many towers above the 50-floor mark in this area.” And judging by the fact that Torch Tower is already 80% sold, it would appear that Dubai’s construction flame is in little danger of blowing out just yet.


R

Very interesting read indeed. I think the difference in height is down to the LED display. I guess they haven't decided upon its exact height.

i thought the LCD display would be on the round roof feature.

anyway, can we consider this confirmed..?

Difficult to say Flo, but I'll get a definate answer very soon.

This will def be a great tower! Lets just hope nothing big is built in front otherwise this will be one of the great towers which will stand out.

I like the fact that the cladding on the building will be a mixture of aluminium and
glass. Should look great.

Do the above dates tie-in with the estimated completion date, etc?

I think august 2008 is possible. But usually there are delays with finishing on most projects. Hopefully these can be factored in to start earlier than most other projects do, so they are not rushed. I hope this beautifull structure will be able to be seen behind whatever is going to be constructed in front.

I love that night time picture - if that was a video feed I could lose hours watching it!

The most attractive thing about the Marina is the nightlife. I decided to buy here after my visit in January, just sitting in Marina Walk, opp. the fountain, watching the locals smoke their sheeshas, drinking tea...taking a stroll along the marina fence...the reflection of the tower lights in the water....Thats the dream!

^^^ and then u woke up lol i have similar dreams dude!

Piling into work on 360m Torch Tower

http://www.itp.net/pictures/features/115proj200.gif
Piling and work underway in Dubai Marina on what will be one of the tallest residential towers in the world.

Dubai has earned the well-deserved moniker of ‘the city of superlatives’ — and the new US $191 million (AED700 million) Torch Tower, which is currently under construction in Dubai Marina, is no exception. When complete, the 360m-high superstructure will be one of the tallest new residential buildings in the world.

And a tower project such as this demands a range of cutting edge construction techniques, especially in the design stages. From the piling and ultra high-strength concrete, right through to a tower crane-mounted web cam to show overseas customers up-to-date progress of construction, the project team is aiming to deliver maximum quality in the minimum amount of time.

Dubai Civil Engineering (DCE) is the main contractor on the job, with National Engineering Bureau (NEB) as the design consultant, developing the original architectural concept from Khatib & Alami (K&A). Zublin Ground & Civil Engineering is the contractor for the piling and shoring works. The firm started work on site in February, and is nearing completion of its package.

“The secant pile wall is formed using a continuous 90cm diameter pile, incorporating an ‘over-cutting’ technique. This pile wall includes a three-layer anchor system to withstand the earth and water pressures,” says Holgar Wolfle, the project manager for Zublin. The main structure foundation piles are driven into the ground to a depth of 50m and have been re-designed to incorporate larger diameter piles under the central core spine, where the greatest pressure exists, to increase the stability of the structure.

According to Wolfle, on three sides of the site the shoring system is already finished with only the anchor layer still to be installed. The remaining side, which completes the shoring system, will be formed using a 1.2m-diameter pile that does not require any anchors. “After we’ve finished the shoring works, we will start the excavation and then the dewatering,” adds Wolfe. The rest of the dewatering will go down below the final excavation depth. “We are not lowering the water table outside of the site, only inside.”

Main contractors DCE will take over as soon as Zublin finishes the piling. “We’re looking to come in around August or September 2006,” says Venu Menon, project director, DCE. “We will start off by cutting the piles and doing the excavation for the four basement floors,” he adds.

The tower will comprise four basements plus a further four floors above the ground — a total of eight floors for car parking. Above these will be the leisure deck, with the residential area beginning on floor six. There also will be access to the roof to allow residents a panoramic view of the skyline. “The four basement floors, the parking floors and the leisure deck will each take up an area of around 3400m2 per floor. Once we start the residential units, this will decrease to around 1100m2 per floor,” says Menon.

The building will then be brought up gradually using slip form formwork, provided by DCE, to cast the floors. “DCE has an in-house slip form division which will be slipping the core,” explains Menon, “and we will always be three to four floors ahead of the slab.” The concrete for the floor slab will be 4m thick. All the slabs will be post-tensioned, again by DCE — the company was in fact one of the first to bring post-tensioning to the UAE market.

“We’ve done around 150 towers in Dubai and Sharjah — in Dubai Marina last year we handled over eight towers, and we currently have another seven in various stages of completion,” says Menon. He says that all DCE jobs use post-tensioned flat slabs. “This has the definite advantage of not having any drop beams, which makes life easier for the mechanical services, and speeds up the job.”

One of the most striking features of the tower (and the one that gives it its name) is the large LED display, which will be installed at the top of the building. The fully programmable iconic screen is likely to measure 30 to 40m in length, with the display being formed into a flame-shaped poly-carbon structure at the top of the tower. “This could be used as an artistic decoration feature, which could be displayed on the screen,” explains David Mullen, project manager at Dubai Select (the project’s developer).

A building of this height demands very high-strength concrete. “Tall structures will have a certain degree of movement nearing the top and it is normal to expect lateral sway of around 30cm in structures of this height. “In the floor sections we will be using 60-Newton concrete, and in some of the lower columns, 100 Newtons; but typically the building will be around 80 Newtons,” says Mullen.

Cladding on the building will be a mixture of aluminium and
glass and will be provided by DCE. “The lead time now for glass is about 12 weeks,” says Menon. “We have a licence to use an American profile and we buy the glass locally. “But aluminium is no problem since we have our own extrusion factory in Dubai Investments Park,” he adds.

“There are very few things we don’t do in-house, but one is readymix,” admits Menon. “We buy this from firms such as RMC and Unimix.” He says that tower projects demand one readymix supplier right from the beginning: “After eight or 10 floors you need to have a hydraulic placing boom and a stationary pump. And the supplier of this boom and pump won’t allow any other supplier to pump concrete through their equipment.”

Despite the plot’s location slap bang in the heart of Dubai Marina, Menon says that he is not anticipating any problems with delivery of materials: “Three sides of this site are surrounded by an asphalted road. And once the parking floors are built, we’ll use them as a storage area for all the finishing materials to help maximise space.”

In a bold manouevre, Dubai Select pre-agreed a contract price — around US $191 million (AED700 million) — with DCE at the start of the project. “We’ve guaranteed a maximum price we’re going to pay DCE, and we believe we’re the first to do that in the UAE,” says Mullen. But what happens if the price of steel, for example, shoots up again? Not a problem, according to Menon: “We have arrangements in place if there are substantial price increases,” he says. “Rebar is a potential problem, as we used to source it from a factory, but now we’ve set up our own facility in Jebel Ali, which will go into production in a month’s time.”

While DCE appears to have most bases covered thanks to its sizeable in-house capabilities, Dubai Select has decided to add a high-tech touch to the project by making use of web cam technology to show its Torch Tower customers what stage construction is at. “Around 80% of the tower has already been sold, mainly to customers in the UK, so we decided to install a web cam on site, so people can access the project wherever they may be,” explains Mullen. “It is new for our customers, and as far as we know it’s new for Dubai. We’re going to move the web cam around the site, so people can see the entire construction process,” he adds.

The quality of the construction process will come under close scrutiny via a long-term facilities management (FM) programme that has been devised by Dubai Select. “We’re already looking at the maintenance of the block and have devised a 10 to 20-year facilities management programme, which will include checking the post-tensioning for the concrete and looking at the fixing points,” explains Mullen. “We have around 30 contractors in line for the FM contract with bids due back in the next few weeks.” Although the FM award won’t be made until after the first year of maintenance from DCE, Mullen says it’s important to get the procedures in place now. “Look around and you’ll see we’re in a very dynamic market — contractors are over-stretched, and if you don’t get them signed up in advance there may not be any available.”

When the building is completed it is likely to be another landmark in the city of Dubai, according to Adnan Rahhal, project manager at NEB. “It’s going to be a unique tower in terms of its shape, height and location,” he says. “There aren’t many towers above the 50-floor mark in this area.” And judging by the fact that Torch Tower is already 80% sold, it would appear that Dubai’s construction flame is in little danger of blowing out just yet.

height increase or what?

well probably it's the LCD...

Naz wants to find out more.

Not 100% sure, but I heard a whisper today that we will find out what's being built on the 3 plots in front of the torch within the next 2 weeks. Watch this space...

When the building is completed it is likely to be another landmark in the city of Dubai, according to Adnan Rahhal, project manager at NEB. “It’s going to be a unique tower in terms of its shape, height and location,” he says. “There aren’t many towers above the 50-floor mark in this area.”

:hilarious

Watch this space...

My eyes are wide open... :shocked:

this news will be of more importance to many SSC forumers than any BD update

It won't be the end of the world but it will be a bit of a sickener for those who've paid for a view and get blocked by the the very top floor of the building(s) in front.

Here's hoping there is no fancy flame-equivalent display at the top of these buildings using up valuable 'view-space'

I hope they announce a nice mall... or a yatch club with a hotel.... using all three plots

^^ that would be the best thing. at least not more than 2 towes.

15F hotel 20F Res, integrated basement with mall, restaurant, cinema.

Sounds great Krazy and I hope you're right.

I think the best we can hope for is something like that in the middle plot (or even a hotel) and perhaps a couple of 30-40F either side. Hard to see Emaar giving up the chance to make $$.

How about a nice club... Marina presently lacks big time in terms of providing recreation space for its residents.... indoor sports / clubs / cinemas.... all missing. There are also no hospitals close to the Marina region

^^ but i doubt they will use this prime plot for a hospital or indoor sports.

i hope the mall will have cinemas etc.

A cinema & mall would certainly make this area far more 'complete' without much need to go elsewhere!

How about a nice brothel? Classy one..not like Diera or Karama....I mean i, er...heard...from somewhere..that this one guy...in the Marina..had to travel like to the other side of Dubai...very bad. Can't remember his name....

:jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk:

Sorry guys, jus thought y'all might need cheering up! C'mon i'm trying here!

lol, the land is way to valuable for a cinema!

ive got a feeling that if emaar develop this plot themselves, they will wait till the summer months to launch a high profile project. or at least a big one. thats when they have released all their other big projects in the marina. and since this is the tallest block....

its just speculation... but boosting sales during dubai's quiet season makes more sense to me.

How about a nice brothel? Classy one..not like Diera or Karama....I mean i, er...heard...from somewhere..that this one guy...in the Marina..had to travel like to the other side of Dubai...very bad. Can't remember his name....

:jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk:

Sorry guys, jus thought y'all might need cheering up! C'mon i'm trying here!

Shame on you.. you're married... with kids! :|

:jk:

er..........did you miss the poor guys with the placquards? Wait...let's bring in some more of his mates...

:jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk: :jk:


There..is that better? :D

you missed my lone poor guy with the placquard ;)

Haaahahahaaaa i did too!!!

Moral is...never send a lone guy out to demonstrate!

In the mean time, here's some music. And some piling in action:

http://i2.tinypic.com/sy2wc6.jpg

has anyone seen DS's new offering, the Point? Smaller project, but perfectly formed?

is that in Dubai Marina?

Dubai Steve said they will launch a new marina project.
can you give more details?

Not officially launched yet but expected anytime soon. Yes I believe it will be in the Dubai Marina area but not as a supertall tower as the Torch.

Dubai Steve said they will launch a new marina project.
can you give more details?

Dubai Marina - 30F Plot 7B. That's all I know.

where is 7B?

Think it is near JBR - right on the marina front - direct marina view.

ok... near marina quays.. opposite marina mall?

Some of the apartments in the Point have jacuzzis on the balconies.

Wonder if we can request the same in the Torch for a few extra $

^^ doubt it because of weight etc.

buy in 23marina they got that, should be quite cool.

however it might become a bit windy in your jacuzzi at 70th F... totally overdone.

anyway..


7B... that should be in the lower marina, as you say probably next to marina quays..

You could be right Flo. Might still ask DS on the off-chance of perhaps getting a small one.

It's things like jacuzzis on balconies that would be great selling points for holiday makers.

Not sure the the Point has the same facilities as the Torch but the 'guaranteed' marina views will come at a premium.

Yes, coz i was wondering how there's a lack of hairy ulgy fat Germans showing me their arsecracks on the balconies opposite.....that'll be why..lack of balcony jacuzzis.

^^ :hahaha: he was probably afraid of the white beer drinking shouting british hooligan on the other side ... :rofl:

While I'm taking midnight jacuzzis and sipping champagne with my scandinanvian girlfriend, the Germans and their cracks will be tucked up in bed ready for their 3am alarm call so they race to put their towels on the sunbeds around the pool.

Quote from Dubai Select:

"Emaar have recently indicated that any proposed development in the Emaar sales centre plot is to be Emaar owned and will not be sold on to a private developer"


If true, this could be good news as private developers will want to maximise their investment and will build 3 supertalls there...

If true, this could be good news as private developers will want to maximise their investment and will build 3 supertalls there...


sorry.. but do you really think Emaar will NOT try to maximiste their profits?

The sales centre is mostly on plot A5D (the middle plot) but also covers a part of A5C (to the left).

If this is the case then 05 and 04 apartments will probably retain pretty good marina views.

Marina Heights owners may be sweating a bit if this is true.

When was the last time you saw EMAAR build a supertall in Marina? If this news is true, you guys should be very relieved.. .you could get away with probably 35 floors in front of you.

^^ :hahaha: he was probably afraid of the white beer drinking shouting british hooligan on the other side ... :rofl:

I have already told you i dont want to live in the marina... i dont like the neighbourhood! :bash:

and i wouldnt put it past emaar to build somthing huge... but if it is them, it is more likely to be smaller.

jetsetter, I think you'll find that the Emaar sales office area (with roundabout, etc.) is centre & right - i.e. in front of the Torch plot, between it and the Marina. It is not in front of the Marina Heights ... all that's in front of the MH is a car park.

A5E is in front of the Marina Heights - A5C is in front of the Torch.

When was the last time you saw EMAAR build a supertall in Marina? If this news is true, you guys should be very relieved.. .you could get away with probably 35 floors in front of you.

still waiting for one to be announced...

Tractor, you misunderstand – when I mentioned Marina Heights I was implying that if Emaar do build something on the middle plot then it may increase the likelihood of the plots either side being sold to private developers = possible supertalls, one of which would be directly in front of MH.

The Point was launched 2-3 days ago. It's on the other side of the Marina, 27 stories with around 185 apartments. That's all for now...more news later. Back to you guys speculating about plots in front of Torch/MH.........[opens beer...watches with excitement... :uh: :cheers: :sly: ]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum..

It looks like the point is at prelaunch now, they are probably going to give their customers some priority and/or better prices.

how about all you dubai select customers get us a render and perhaps a few basic details

I don't think that DS would refuse to give details to anyone (existing customer or not) if there is the chance to make a sale.

I do actualy know someone who works for dubai select; but since im a million miles from manchester there is nowt i can do.

details available. Looks fine, floor plans and render. Not sure how to attach pictures.

go to www.tinypic.com

upload the picture from your HDD.

copy and paste the www.tinypic.com/dhdhd.jpg you get after uploading into SSC post reply window.

submit reply.

that's it :)

would love to see the render !

seems not to be working....

can you upload the picture and give me the link?

can you upload the picture and give me the link?


Here you guy guys!!!

http://i2.tinypic.com/t5n8g4.jpg

I got the price lists and other info in PDF format. Anywhere I can upload this ??

Cool, I like it :cheers:

http://i2.tinypic.com/t5n8g4.jpg

umer_sheikh check your PM please

umer_sheikh check your PM please

Done mate!!!

so this one will be built in front of the torch?

quite nice looking, i still don't like the idea to construct more towers here though

Nowhere near the Torch - check out the Point's own thread - location is confirmed there.

Anymore news Dubaiflo about whats going to be built in front of the Torch and Marina Heights ?

OK, The Point's got its own thread now. So let's get back to the Torch now shall we?

CONSTRUCTION UPDATES (since work commenced):

06-04-2006 - Excavation of the central mould 50% complete
30-03-2006 - 850mm shore piling stage complete
27-03-2006 - Capping Beam construction officially commenced
25-03-2006 - Excavation work commenced on the central mould
05-03-2006 - 50% of the 850mm shoring piling completed
01-02-2006 - The 850mm shoring piling stage officially commenced
25-01-2006 - The guide wall construction for the shoring piles completed

Not bad going, for 2 months work.

Few more pics:

http://i2.tinypic.com/t71thv.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/t71tns.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/t71tu0.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/t71u0i.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/t71vec.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/t71vfn.jpg

^^ photos are a bit older though, look at Emirates Crown.

but at least it is in full swing now.

Anymore news Dubaiflo about whats going to be built in front of the Torch and Marina Heights ?


nope did not get more information :(

The latest I've heard is that nothing might be built where the current car park is infront of Marina Heights only where the curent Emaar Sales office is.

Pics are a mixture of Feb, March and the last 2 are April.

yeah i just had a closer look the last two already show excavation.

any news on the plots in front?

Nothing yet, still waiting. Only definite thing is that whoever has bought the plots has not got planning permission for supertalls. These plots are limited height, only questions are how high..and how many will be built.

work well underwell for TT. will post update soon.

and the sales centre is being destroyed at good pace.

did i get that right? they have already started demolishing the emaar sales centre?

Every possible rumour has been on this forum - 2 supertalls & 1 hotel, nothing in front of MH, nothing in the middle plot...blah blah f'ing blah....

Lets hope the BS ends and we find out for sure soon.

^^ i was only passing information i got, i can withheld it if you prefer that.

did i get that right? they have already started demolishing the emaar sales centre?


halfway done.

interior does not exist anymore.

http://i3.tinypic.com/vobr5i.jpg

excavation on the way.


dennis check the plot map thread to see the demolished sales centre.

finally there is something serious going on
most valuable post in the history of the torch on ssc
thanks flo!!

Boy, they are working at breakneck speed on this one! compare it to the last pic i posted above, which was from 6th April!

^^ You should know that tea has a lot of kafeine and kafeine is a stimulant. Imagine how much tea they've been having with all that LONG tea brake ... :runaway:

Will this tower be ever launched in Dubai?

Don't think so as it is almost sold out - However, if you want to buy one just call Dubai Select in the UK.

No I am not interested in purchasing an apartment here. I am just surprised that it hasn't been launched yet.... same with quite a few others like Roshana Tower

Does anyone know if many more apartments have been sold since the recent design changes?

Seemed to be sitting around 80% sold out for quite a while.

most valuable post in the history

no surprise it was a post by a forumer called dubaiflo :runaway:

Does anyone know if many more apartments have been sold since the recent design changes?

Seemed to be sitting around 80% sold out for quite a while.

The new 1-bed apartments on floors 67-73 are now all sold out.

The new 1-bed apartments on floors 67-73 are now all sold out.

Good news. The quicker this bad boy gets completely sold out the better.

Yes the Torch being sold out I'm sure will push up the prices of other towers in the Marina.

Hello all!

I just came back from Dubai over the easter weekend. The Marina sales centre and a portion of the car park are totally boarded around. I have loads of pics in the area and of the torch!!!
I will try and post them later tonight. What is the best way to post the pics ??

Umer

Did you get information or hear any rumours to what they are going to build ?

Did you get information or hear any rumours to what they are going to build ?


No but I have heard it will be LIMITED HEIGHT like Naz has said.

The question on everyone's mind is: How limited?!

that all depends on who owns the plot.

someone like the al futtaim family... i would say its safe to assume their is no limit.

somone like the wind group.... could be only 5-6 stories with their lack of wasta

Surely the height would be determined before the plot is actually purchased - as the allowed height will dictate the cost of the plot.

80 stories is LIMITED HEIGHT in Dubai.

80 stories is LIMITED HEIGHT in Dubai.

Steve - I spent some time with some one of the reps from Dubai Select, he told me that the Torch was a UNLIMITED HEIGHT plot, the plots in front will be limited height.

I reckon ( and hope ) you will not see anything above 30 stories there !!

Well as we know flo was told of 1 60 story and 2 40 stories by his Emaar sales rep friend. Let's hope this is wrong information then and they will be less than 30.

I look forward to seeing all your photos!

That’s what Dubai Select think that it’s a limited size plot they were initially told by Emaar nothing more than a 13 storey could be built. Problem with Emaar is they don’t tell anyone the truth.

Well as we know flo was told of 1 60 story and 2 40 stories by his Emaar sales rep friend. Let's hope this is wrong information then and they will be less than 30.

I look forward to seeing all your photos!


Do we know which plot of the 3 was (maybe) going to get the 60F?

maybe emmar only plan to have a 13 story building their. but if they sell the plot to someone with more wasta than alabar; their isnt much they can do to stop them building as big as they wish.

IMO dubai select should buy the plot to protect their investors in the torch. but i doubt they will.

IMO dubai select should buy the plot to protect their investors in the torch. but i doubt they will.

If only - DS would be caught between the devil and the deep blue. The higher the tower, the more Torch customers shafted by them. Not good reputation wise for an up and coming developer

"up and coming developer" lol

why would they build a big tower?

they could decide what to do with it if they owned it!

[QUOTE=DUBAI]"up and coming developer" lol

How would you describe them? they're new and haven't built anything yet.

Your suggestion of DS buying a plot to protect Torch investors is the biggest LOL of all my friend!!

DE JA VUE or what this is the same discussion as from part 2, we never gonna know whats happening until it's launched or a board goes up.

They only thing we can say is that there are potentially three plots, if i was reading this thread and i owned the land i'd put a 100f buliding on each plot just to piss you lot of :D

I'm sorry for you guys but every single Torch and MH investor shoulda known that they would never really have true "marina views" simply because both these towers are not located directly next to the marina. Of course the sales agents are gonna tell you not to worry and nothing will block your beautiful view, that's their job.. to lie and have the property sold!!!

Let's not get into this again - obscured views are not the end of the world.
I'm just hoping that whatever is built in front is lifestyle enhancing for Torch residents.

I'm sure people in the Torch and Marina Heights will still have great views of the marina. No way can i see there being 3 huge towers being developed in the plots in front of the Torch and MH.

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy761z.jpg

i hope this is not what it's gonna look like... looks rather ugly... and the podium is really bad too... it looks much better in the render

Here you go guys!!! - Enjoy (i have compressed the quality a bit, to make it easier to upload!!

Enjoy

Umer

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy7bm0.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy7dxv.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy7eqr.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy7fqr.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy7hq8.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy7io2.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy83nr.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy86xj.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy87si.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy89y0.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8bcm.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8dgl.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8gnp.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8hls.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8jnr.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8ks0.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8mqa.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8nk1.jpg

I gotta say, I reckon the torch will be one impressive building, and I personally think the location, together with Marina heights, is one of the best!!!

Laters!

some temporary relief for MH residents? the car park opposite MH is not boarded...

great updates umer.. thanks a lot

some temporary relief for MH residents? the car park opposite MH is not boarded...

great updates umer.. thanks a lot


Yes!!! - But there needs to be a car park for the meantime right?!?!
Every visitor to the marina was parking there, if they totally boarded all the car park areas, where would the guests park!!!

haha yea that's why i posted "temporary" relief... it won't remain like that for long

quite posssibly the most irrelevent image ever posted on ssc....


http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8nk1.jpg


but cheers for the model pis they are great!


Its blue!!!???

Thanks for the updates - very interesting.

I notice that they have killed off all the grass in the plot in front and removed all the trees! That makes me very upset for the moment. I liked having the trees and fountain there!

It looks at the moment like the large boarded plot will be for 1 big development a single developer which will contain a number of parts to it. To me it looks like it will be another Emaar development somehow. This plot is surely the best in the marina, one that Emaar would want to have. Also it seems likely to me that it is best suited for a hotel development. Did I read somewhere that Emaar are going into the hotel business? If so this would be a good plot for them.

The model looks nice. Deep blue glass would look good next to silver aluminium.

I am a bit confused about the middle parts where the windows are darker and are not curved. Will these still exist as the service floors have now gone? If so how will that impact on the apartments inside - will they have different windows or dimensions on those floors?

And an oval pool I see - that is news to me. Nice but looks quite small though. Probably oval to maximize free space around it?

Also wondering why DS did not update their customers with interior specs yet?! since clearly they are decided upon already. DS please send a mailing on that.

where is the LCD :bash:

i hope this is not what it's gonna look like... looks rather ugly... and the podium is really bad too... it looks much better in the render

Huh? Looks mighty fine to me. Best looking tower of its type I have seen in ages.

Can someone photoshop this image and cut out the background then place it on one of the background shots - that would be fun to see.

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy761z.jpg

Again, the boardings placed right now is for demolition purposes. Two of the plots boarded could or could not involve one project... we don't know! Let's not make assumptions! As for now, the boardings are only for demolition purpose.

Steve, I meant that the tower looks much better in the render than in the model. They seem to have deleted a lot of facade details while making the model. There could be two reasons: one that it has actually been redesigned, two they were too cheap to pay a little extra and get a better model made.. instead they settled for the cheaper simpler model at a lower cost.

what a great update! :runaway:
door handle pic is nice too :)

Ive just had a thought.....

KM properties cand do all that they want with park square...so...

might they buy this?


you might just get that hotel... but be carefull what you wish for?

Hmm, the tower in the renders had a roundish shape, instead of the squarish shape in this model. It looks like a re-design, probably resulting in more interior space, but in my view an inferior exterior design to the original.

I got my new plans of the apartment and was dissapointed that the balcony (06) is only going to be 3.7sqm and instead of having a view from all 3 sides of the balcony there is going to be 2 walls at the side and only a view from the front of the balcony (the balcony is now rectangular).

When I looked at my contract the balcony had reduced from 13sqm to 5sqm and I hadn't noticed. DS have said that the interior has increased by about 10sqm. I still would have liked a bigger balcony.

Too much of this sort of thing happening in Dubai :(

that sucks. they appearantly scrapped the rounder version.

i would be interesting in a response from someone of Dubai select.

Personally I can't see any differences with the model and the render apart from the blue colour.

http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk/media/img/torch-large.jpg

look at the bottom section.

its lost that lovely flowing line.


its also lost the curve of the building like it has in the top secion.

and its now 2 unbalanced secors instead of the previous 3

Can someone photoshop this image and cut out the background then place it on one of the background shots - that would be fun to see.

My poor poor try

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/sahmad/ed02ba6d.jpg

AMAZING WORK :D

u got a wrong render dude...but appreciate the attempt

wrong render???

its the model!


and its falllllllllllllllling!


run for your lives!


good effort...

Yeah great effort.

The 'leaning tower of Dubai' perhaps - a tourist attraction in itself.

Forget the Marina View looks like the towers going to end up in the Marina.....But not easy to photoshop in as we are not experts.

Nevertheless good effort krazy....11 out of 10 for effort.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/9760/torch2da.jpg

Magnificant work larven - Look how small Marina Heights looks - should be renamed 'Marina Depths' hehe

incredible how larven always pops in if there is some photoshop work to do ;)

great work!

^^ Well done 1st prize goes to larven and 1st prize for creativity goes to Krazy.

Marina Heights [208m] will look tiny compared to The Torch [345m].

Genious larven... thats amazing.

The scales are a bit wrong - top floor of MH should be as high as the top of the Main body of the Torch before it gets thinner. Also, judging by the difference in size of the top of the Torch in the photos of the most recent model, I don't think this tower is going to be 345m any more :(

Someone also mentioned that the MH looks higher than 208m as it seems taller than Le Reve and about the same height as Al Marsa in the most recent pics (i.e. before Al Marsa is finished)!

Anyway, one thing is for sure - this place (this end of the Marina) is going to be absolutely stunning!

yea larven... great work.. whatever :sleepy:

The scale is fine. If the main body of the torch was as high as MH the tower would only be approximately 300m including spire. Also remember that there is a slight angle of perspective to be taken into consideration as the torch is closer to the viewpoint than MH.

Great work larven! Thanks for making my day. Wonder if you can place the Torch in one of the other backgrounds also? You did a nice shot with MH completed before - would it work to add it there also?

http://www.marinaheightstower.net/mh19dw.jpg

Krazy - thanks for the leaning tower of torch version - your sarcasm made me laugh -"yea larven... great work.. whatever" :laugh:

let the jokes begin... Im sorry Im really bored

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/sahmad/bd65701e.jpg

it needs to be a little taller, but a good try.


and Al Million.... RUN FOR YOUR LIFE :runaway:

OK Tractor...this is probably a more accurate idea of what it will look like.http://i3.tinypic.com/w22gap.jpg

It would be nice to know the final height of the Torch and the real height of Marina Heights too.

Dubaiflyer, the height of yours is probably right IMO but it is WAY too wide ... this tower won't be wider than Al Marsa!!!

Wish we could fast forward 2 1/2 years to see this area nearly finished ... with Emirates Crown, etc.

It is interesting to note that the new model leaves out that sort of spiral part evident in the first renders (see dubaiflyer's post)

maybe a better image?

http://i3.tinypic.com/w6qcqo.jpg

B-E-A-utiful!

My favorite going up in the Marina area:)

Just wait a couple of months!!!

Above is a very misleading image of the Torch's position relative to the Marina. It is already known that there are current developments/plans that will render any appreciable views to either the Marina or the Sea a mirage.

Could someone put in Emirate's crown and Princess too? Am I asking too much?!

we already have a pic ith all of them somewhere else.

btw, that is a misleading picture of the torch. when the tower looked nice.

it now is boring and blue.

Sorry Dubai - the model photo won't work from this angle, but I agree that the perspective makes TT much more elegant.

I thought perhaps it would make Ashka happier if, as a bit of Saturday morning fun, I propose Princess Tower 2 for the Emaar plot? (sorry Torch owners for this bit of mischief!)

http://i3.tinypic.com/w6sdfs.jpg

Great!!! But I think Princess is to small!!

:hahaha: nice one dubaiflyer ;)

But a 107F on the Emaar plot,... no they won't do that :D:D

will they :naughty: ?

This photo by volker may be better for the model
http://i1.tinypic.com/n2gab6.jpg

the best one would be taken from the top of the Grosvenor.

im sure we had one.

anyone know where?

nice one with princess, but princess is gonna be at least 100m taller than the torch

Thinking about it, if I owned something in MH or Torch I would hope Emaar DO keep these plots in front to themselves ... they rarely build anything big, especially at the marina.

I hope AlMillion/others post lots of pics when these towers are being constructed ...

A question to any geological gurus out there - Will the soil test results not determine what can be built on these plots in front i.e. how high?

There isn't any difference in the soil, compared with the nearby plots, so they can build as high as they want. The soil testing is done to calculate how wide the piles should be and how deep should they go, based on the weight of the building they have to support.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/9760/torch2da.jpg
now really fuck things up by adding in princess , marina what ever next to it, infinity in front, pinnacle behind, mag benind and marina 23 at the back.
Its going to be the worst place in Dubai to live

oh and najid tower and ocean heights-the wind is going to make it impossible to walk in the area and its going to be wall to wall buildings.
I love towers but this is over kill

After coming back from Chicago I honestly now that think it's OK to have loads of tall towers like that. When you're walking around the place you only notice the massive towers when you look up. Also I'm sure a bit of wind would be more than welcome when it's scorching hot ;)

Good point malec, but i really don't think these towers are as dense as say, New York ...

could marina 101 be located on the plot in front of THE TORCH?

Could be, but they'd be fucking idiots to do that.
They're not as dense as Chicago either. The key I think, is that even if some areas are really dense it's OK as long as there are plenty of spaces to breathe. The marina does this quite well I think. The whole point of highrise living is the density though, the fact that you're close to everything

i doubt it is the plot there.

maybe, since it is hotel & serviced apts for which views are not that important, it could be in the 2nd row of the tallest block, for a short moment i thought it is the boarded plot behind ocean heights but that is very unlikely, they say construction will start 3rd Q 2006.

i think it is the plot next to infinity.

but nevertheless.. Emaar always said there will be hotel in front of the torch.. ;)

My guess would be behind Mag 218 if looking from the Marina ... or in that area.

Does any feel cheated by the change in plan for the corner apts on floors 6-21?
That beautiful -large- balcony which appeared in the brochure with wide angle views has now been squashed up into a tiny little box with a blinkered view? surely Dubai law or Emaar does not permit huge changes to the plans upon which purchase decisions are made?
Gulp in the Gulf.

Scooby,

I would be really p**d off if I had one! I think that the huge balcony with panaramic views was one of the main incentives to buying one of those corner 2 beds.

Hi ScoobydoobyBuy - was the balcony layout in the floorplan in your contract exactly the same as the brochure or was it different ???

can somebody post a layout of those mysterious balconies - old and new?

scooby, since this was all sold in the uk, and dubai select is a uk based company, you may be entitled to compensation.

call a lawyer or claims direct or somone.

I'm guessing the new balcony layout was shown in the contract, in which case purchasers knew what they were buying when they signed it.

Nope, as far as I'm aware the new balcony design was only recently disclosed to purchasers following the redesign of the building after the appointment of the new architect and the removal of the service floors.

In fact Dubai Selects website is still advertising the old balcony design!

We will send a scan of the brochure v. the new plan shortly.
We bought based on the large and clear plans of the apt with a great balcony in the brochure. Admittedly we did not spot the major change to the balcony in the minute details of the plan of the whole floor which was in the contract on page 16 I think.

We discussed the brochure plan with the sales reps in Jan 06 and we subsequently bought shortly afterwards (end Jan 06) but never received the smallest hint from DS that the balcony had been completely changed (even by that time apparently!), vastly reduced in size & view.
Is that an honest living or what!

n.b. even at the point where we sent off the non-refundable £2000 reservation fee we could had no clue whatsoever that the apt (balcony) was very different to the brochure, and it is clear the DS knew at the time that we were being duped.

On floors 6-21 there are major differences between the brochure v. actual corner balconies

Was unable to attach images so here are some links:

Actual
http://www.jeenterprises.com/new1.jpg

What we thought we were purchasing
http://www.jeenterprises.com/old.jpg

A dramatic change in size of the balcony, but your living area looks bigger so its not all lost?

^^ Thats what they have done is increase living space , but reduced balcony, but new balcony now only has a view forwards not to the sides like the old one.

People may have purchased because of balcony layout.....but this is alos one of the dangers of off plan purchases.

But if at time of purcahse they had new design surely that is what should have been shown and sold.

Thanks guys for the sympathetic responses especially the legalities. Yes the living area has increased in size which is good but woe, we will have to cancel the balcony parties and barbeques, the outdoor dining, the cigars, the saguaros, the balcony jacuzzi, the splash pool, the telescope etc etc...
I even wonder if we can see the swimming pool down below with those new nasty walls to either side (if you look closely at http://www.jeenterprises.com/walls.jpg you can imagine)

As far as we are concerned the balcony was a major selling point and it has been changed out of all recognition.

I can understand that refinements to an apt bought off-plan are permitted, but surely not destroying major selling features.

If you want to have a look on page 17 number 337 I already mentioned this about the balcony. It's really been ruined. The original plan we were faxed through before we bought had 13 sqm written on it, then I didn't notice the plans on the contract which had been changed to 5 sqm and when I phoned Dubai Select about it a couple of weeks ago they said it was now 3.7sqm.

Don't think we'll even get a couple of chairs on it.

i would be very angry, there are people who mainly bought because they wanted a big balcony.

O. K. Everybody
I have been reading all the comments with interest and really feel sorry for the ones who purchased TT thinking of the balcony and the views. We paid non refundable deposit of £1000 and my wife somehow did not trust what we were being told about the tower and the views and thanks to her I flew to Dubai to check the location. We had paid a deposit for sea/marina facing (view), and balcony 13sq.m. On my vist to the plot I said aloud "SHIT". No way I will be able to see the marina or the sea once other high rise are built (or see very little of them) but DS had told us what fantastic views we will have and also club house was going to be built where the low building is. (E Sales office). A local told me "no chance" once all this is completed they will built another tower. Apt we had paid a deposit for was approx. 1/4 way up. Despite this we were prepared to buy because of the balcony but when the contracts arrived, knowing what we had been told we read evey bit of the cotract including the plans which were attached and noticed what they had done with the balcony and cancelled the purchase.

The manner in which this Tower has been marketed is questionable, especially by a UK based company. I thank my wife for being a better judge of people.

Club house! what club house!? sounds like another lie to me. When Dubai Select tell you that exactly ? Last time I spoke with them they said they had no idea what would be built there.

Dubai select is rapidly gaining a bad reputation out of this. at least WIND look like they will build the towers they prommised, when they eventualy get around to it.

I just hope dubai select complete the tower; the shere volumes of law suits that could potentialy be filed for false advertising, amoungst other things could send them under.

club house :rofl: this is ridiculous. somehow i do believe emaar told the developers NOTHING and they made up things which spread everywhere..

There were a couple of people that were questionning the credibility of this company ages ago ... seems they weren't far wrong!

I think people are better off pulling out if they can without incurring too much cost ... in my opinion they need to be taught a lesson!

What are you on about Tractor ??? This tower is going to be fantastic and it's over 90% sold. Bet there aren't too many other towers with under 10% of units left. Why on God's earth would anybody want to pull out (and lose their money) ??? It's a dead certainty now that this tower will be built. And it's going to be one of the greatest towers in the marina.
The new balcony layout was in the contract......purchasers should read it carefully before they sign. You can't sue DS for something that was clearly in the contract.
Developers change designs all the time, it's one of the risks in buying off-plan.
In fact clause 9.2 of the contract states " The Buyer acknowledges that the Seller may change vary or modify the plans, finishes and equipment in Schedule 1 and the Outline Specification".
So...the design could even change again....though I think this is very unlikely as construction has started. If purchasers don't like this clause then don't sign..........buy yourself an already built property.

edit

I've never heard such a load of bloody nonsense. No...nobody's pulling out....why would they ...it's practically sold out now.

Bet there aren't too many other towers with under 10% of units left.

:|


anyway, it is rather unusual to change the layouts in a dramatic way, even if it is stated in the contract...

Morrismarina, have a look at www.dubaiselect.com website and see the false advertising with your own eyes! I won't mention the Torch looking like the Burj Al Arab out there isolated on it's own beautiful peninsula with cute little boats moored right up beside it, just go straight to the current floor plans for the 2 bedroom apt located in the corner location on floors 6-21!
Yes, that is exactly what the sales rep had been feeding us, sent by e-mail before we sent off our 1st non-refundable £2000. There is -no way- we could have known that the actual apt (balcony) bore no resemblance to what we had been shown in a large clear plan to us.
Even during numerous conversations during the next 30 days with sales reps there wasn't the slightest hint from the sales reps that the plan deviated in any way from the plan that is currently on your website and which was sent to us A4 size before we sent money.
And YES, the microfiche -floor- plan that we stupidly signed on page 17 of the contract does show a significant deviation in the size of the balcony (it shrivelled), however on paper the general shape of the microscopic apt+balcony in the corner of the floor plan included in the contract looked about right so we unwittingingly signed without having used a magnifying glass or electron microscope. If DS were in any way above board they would have sent us a large A4 plan of the -new- apt design instead of sending a large A4 plan of the -old- design (or still current according to your website!) in addition to the rather difficult-to-read floor plan in the contract, and DS could easily have pointed out that the balcony area design had changed dramatically during one of numerous conversations each of which focussed on various DS sales reps emphasising "the view will be spectacular to say the least" even if they secretly knew the balcony had shrivelled and nasty walls would block the side views.

Morrismarina, are you saying that the original designs (and for that matter the ones still displayed on your website to this day!!) were never reflected in any contract? I ask because you seem to say that everyone who received a contract received one with a reasononably accurate albeit microscopic floor plan. So the architecture re-design occurred before the first contracts were sent whenever that was? 6 months ago? more?

Can I just clarify I don't work for DubaiSelect in any shape of form, I just happened to have purchased an apartment, so it's not my website. I have a copy of the floorplan in my contract dated September 2005, which looks exactly the same as yours, so just to mention in passing, the change in design of the balcony is nothing to do with the new architects National Engineering Bureau as they came onboard later (from what I understand).
I agree the floorplan is a bit small but it is readable to be fair. If yours is the same as mine it states the measurements on it - the apartment is 103 sq metres and the balcony 5 sq mtres. I'm sorry you've missed this when signing your contract but all I'm saying is it was there.
Now I don't know anything about the balcony being reduced to 3.7 metres I'm assuming it's still 5 sq m.
I agree with all your comments about DS not telling you about the difference from the brochure and yes.....they definitely ought to change the floorplans on the website as well. It is misleading. I can' t argue with anything you've said about this. And their sales talk is somewhat fanciful - "much envied location" and " the Burj Al Arab within easy walking distance " etc.etc. It's all marketing BS. And possibly misleading.
But I don't see anybody having a strong enough case to sue them to be honest. They're not daft, they've covered the legals off in the contract.
I assume though you did read clause 9.2 and were happy with it ??? Which gives them the right to change the design at any time, so even if your layout in the contract WAS the same as the brochure/website they could have changed it all later anyway. May seem unfair I know, but that's what we all agree to when we signed.

Morrismarina is probably affiliated with Dubai Select. If the tower is 90% sold then it just shows how many people have been duped and are probably very unhappy right about now!

I hope they do pull out and give DS a headache ... one big enough to teach them a lesson about honest business practices.

Just because a contract has such clauses doesn't mean they should be used!!

HAHA i am just lmao.

has anyone ever watched the torch DVD on their website?

sorry but, is there a general Dubai Marina video and text?

the first 5 minutes of this video are almost exactly the same Trident used for their Marina Scape development, but not for Waterfront and Bayside and Trident Grand.

it is exactly the same, the speaker says word for word the same at until they are talking about the torch.

even some parts of the rest are exactly the same, they use the same sentences like in the Marina Scape video. just watch it and compare... :lol:

i just saw they even used part of the MS video, not the general Dubai stuff before (that is almost exactly the same) but they even show a scene in which marinascape in its full design can be seen. they just copied it .. :eek:

Yes I noticed this a long time ago. It is a poor copy of the Marinascape production. I assumed they asked permission from Trident, so I ignored it. I just assume this is because their budget was low at the beginning since this is their first project. Have to admit though I was more impressed with Dubai Select before they added this video to their website. Almost everyone knows the Trident Marinascape video by now.

are investors starting to pull out of this development ? seems like it has been 80% sold for ages

Well I for one have thought about it... a lot. I reserved very early on, taking what were then the top two type 06 two-bed apartments. Nobody from DS bothered to tell me they were no longer going to be the top two due to the reconfiguration of the three-bed floors until the 'new' top two-bed apartments had all been reserved...

The problem is, almost any Dubai property reserved off-plan a year or more ago should have delivered a healthy return by now so if I cancel the reservation, which they've offered me a chance to do, all that will happen is that they re-sell the apartments at a profit and I lose out. By keeping them I still gain, I just gain less than I would have done without the changes.

Personally my approach now is to go ahead until the final payment then deduct an appropriate amount for the devaluation and hope they'll accept it; if not, we go to law. In the meantime, my next Dubai property will probably be from someone other than DS (not least because The Point is so spectacularly overpriced...).

morrismarina, it was when I phoned DS and got put through to Katie that she told me the balcony is 3.7sq.m

now really fuck things up by adding in princess , marina what ever next to it, infinity in front, pinnacle behind, mag benind and marina 23 at the back.
Its going to be the worst place in Dubai to live

Have to say whilst it may be the tallest block on the planet I think the overall masterplanning behind this is madness. These are not high rise offices in say Chicago or New York, they are residential buildings and I would have thought most people buying here would at least expect a sea view or one of the marina. Imagine looking out your 90th floor apartment window and seeing another tower block in front...madness! I would have preferred to see these supertalls dotted sporadically around the marina between the smaller 180-250m towers than all clustered together. I think it would be better for residents as well as providing a far more interesting enviroment with the supertalls rising up like mountain tops here and there all around the marina.

I am also worried that the population of the tallest block on the planet will be too high for such a small area. Why is everyone condensed into this small plot of land ? The biggest problem is that there are not currently enough amenities in this local area. JBR is ok with its long line of shops and restaurants. Central marina is OK with its large shopping mall and restarant island. I just hope Emaar do not kill this area with nothing but high rises and no facilities. Please not another tower in front of the Torch and MH, we do not need anymore here - people will need facilities. Why live here if there is nothing here compared to cheaper apartments half way up the marina.

This overcrowding of supertalls is solely down to Emaar and their planning. They've clearly gone for the "grab the money and run" option here. Very unimaginative plot spacing and thoughless plot allocation to supertalls is Emaar's legacy of the Marina. JBR's plots are far superiour when compared to the Marina.

^^ interesting this does not really happen in their Burj Dubai development, which they are selling themselves :D

but that is how it is for the marina.

still, the view blocking issue.. well, most of the towers have exactly one side with good views, but that's it.

interesting though, i a friend of mine has been in al seef tower and says that most of the apartments offer great views of the palm and the open ocean, and even partial marina views which he thinks will remain in a way, of course limited but he said it will look great.

also the land side view is quite good, overlooking media city which is rather green and the golf course and emirates living (23 marina of course not there but it is some 50m away which makes it appear quite spacious from a 40F apt)

Also you have to take into account that most towers have corner balconies which, of course only works with 4 to 6 apts per floor, but this is a good solution for views.

Nevertheless even JBR is more wisely designed, most of the towers do have sea views from two sides and even (if only partial, because there are going to be marina towers) marina views on the other sides.

It just seems crazy to have so many supertall towers so close to each other. So far they are relatively well spaced but just look how close the gap is between the Al Marsa tower and the even taller tower U/C next to it...they are very very close. This trend will only continue when the other towers start springing up, some over 400m high! Another problem is the better designs such as Infinity and Ocean Heights are going to get lost in a sea of mostly average to mediocre towers. It sounds impressive on paper but in reality I don't think its going to work on several levels.

^^ u r right indeed.

infinity has a prime position so it won't be too bad, but the gaps are too close, that is right.

the marina is too dense, there is no point in denying that.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the over-crowdidness of the Marina supertalls..i've sorta learned to live with it... to be honest, I just want the damn things built as soon as possible so we can all see and assess what the outcome looks like. What pisses me off more than Emaar's pathetic planning is unanounced delays..or unexplained modifications. Some ppl on here have expressed deep regret in what they see as Dubai Select's sudden change of plans...but as someone has already rightly pointed out...you should ONLY go by what is being sold to you in your final contract..not glossy brochures, videos, all that stuff is just marketing. The "new" 2-bed layout that someone is complaining about is in actual fact the only ever design of the 2-beds, when you study the original (dated 12 July 2005) plans drawn up by architects Khatib & Alami. Forget the brochure images you saw of the 2-beds coz it clearly stated that these were just for illustration purposes only. I'm sorry but once again, it seems ppl are blaming the Developer for their own lack of scrutiny of the contracts and carelessness. Personally, I would never sign a contract for an apartment without requesting detailed and "final" plans from the architects, which is what I did...and to my surprise, my 1-bed has actually gotten bigger by around 10%...So although I can empathise with some of you who are feeling let down now...I can't say I have much reason to complain....Work is underway, its coming along very fast indeed...its nearly sold-out (80-90% watever) and my "sea/princess/le-reve-view" just got much bigger with plenty of better modifications that I don't wana bore you with..(e.g. bigger balcony, extra seperate shower..etc).

I agree entirely with you Naz. I would also add that anybody would have been crazy to spend so much money on a Torch apartment without spending a fairly minimal £300 on a flight and going out to the Marina to check out the Torch plot first. ie. the relevance of the position of the other towers, what the possible views will be like etc...For somebody to think the Torch would be standing on it's own with nothing else around it, like in the brochure, well.........no wonder they're going to be disappointed. It's always a case of "caveat emptor" (think I've spelt it correctly ??) - buyer beware.
I was going to buy a place in Spain two years ago, was promised great views etc. Flew out to see it and realised it was awful and decided not to go ahead. So glad I checked it out first, developers will put a spin on anything and you've got to check it out yourself. You wouldn't buy a house in the UK without going to have a look at it would you ?? It's exactly the same with buying overseas.

Hello all!!

Nice to read all the shit going down!!
I gotta a question not totally relevant !

What are peoples thoughts on the supply / demand issue in about 5 years time. Do you reckon there will be a over-supply of property (esp in the marina). What is the % of investment buyers ?? Do you think that if there was a massive over supply in Dubai, Prices would come down ? (Rents would definetly ?)
What if there is a large % of people relying on the rental market and they are struggling to keep up on payments, and properties start getting repossed?
How would this effect the market??

Please feel free to discuss!!!

Nice One!

Well...Umer this is not really the thread in which to discuss this...your issues has been raised and discusssed many times in the investments thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373.

The general ethos of everyone is that yes, there will eventually be an oversupply issue, whether thats 2 yrs, 5 yrs, or 10 years....its a matter of opinion. But also that so far, Dubai's population is growing at around 15-20% per year and tourism is growing at the same rate. So this should provide plenty of demand for the huge amount of newly available accommodation in the coming years.

Cheers Naz - I will take a look at the investment thread!


Well...Umer this is not really the thread in which to discuss this...your issues has been raised and discusssed many times in the investments thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373.

The general ethos of everyone is that yes, there will eventually be an oversupply issue, whether thats 2 yrs, 5 yrs, or 10 years....its a matter of opinion. But also that so far, Dubai's population is growing at around 15-20% per year and tourism is growing at the same rate. So this should provide plenty of demand for the huge amount of newly available accommodation in the coming years.

Naz UK and Morris Marina...are you guys crazy?

1. we -DO- have the original floorplan from K & H it shows 13sqm (yes 13sqm not 3.7 sqm) for the balcony that we were sold by Dubai Select. See it for yourselves everybody:
http://www.jeenterprises.com/kh_original_fp.jpg !!
Here is the crappy balcony we are actually getting at 3.7sqm:
http://www.jeenterprises.com/miserablebalcony.jpg

2. We received the beautiful brochure from Dubai Select on Jan 04th 2006 clearly showing the same ficticious large balcony for our appt

3. We have the email dated 10th January this year from Adam Price of Dubai Select still selling us the same appartment plan with that wonderful large balcony (13sqm). See Adam's attachment for yourselves: http://www.jeenterprises.com/Torch_2_Bed_6-21.jpg
The rest of his email text is below under "MESSAGE FROM ADAM PRICE:"

4. Dubai Select are -STILL- showing the same ficticious plan with the same ficticious very large balcony to prospective customers (see it with your own eyes, now !!!! at http://ww.dubaiselect.com/dubai_property_developments/the_marina_torch/torch-floorplans )

5. We finally discovered the dismal truth that we had been deceived terribly when Sheltie posted a message last week about the way they also had been deceived and just like us didn't notice the detail in the floorplan sent in their contract. We checked our contract and couldn't believe we had be duped by Dubai Select.

6. The current balcony size according to Katie Moore of Dubai Select is 3.7sqm today. There was no size given in the plan we received 2 weeks ago by post.

So the balcony is actually 3.7sqm with nasty big walls but as far as I am concerned we were sold an appt with a fantastic 13sqm balcony (approx).
Here is what we are getting now: http://www.jeenterprises.com/miserablebalcony.jpg

7. So NAZ UK and Marina Morris what words spring to mind? Deceipt? Dishonest? false advertising? fraud?

Can anybody out there help us? what rights do we have? any?
Are there legal advisors somewhere, forums, etc?

what says umer sheikh?



MESSAGE FROM ADAM PRICE:
>
> From:
> Sent: 10 January 2006 13:36
> Subject:
>
>
>
>
> {Scooby},
>
> I have attached an electronic version of the terms and conditions for the
> Torch apartments.
>
> I would also recommend you read the terms and conditions on the reservation
> form.
>
> Apartment T-1602 is one of the last three remaining 1 bedroom apartments
> available in the Torch.
>
> Apartment T-1602 has an approx net area of 904 sq ft.
>
> I have attached the apartment plans for T-1602.
>
> In terms of the more cost effective 2 bedroom apartments we have apartments
> T-1603 and T-1306.
>
> Apartment T-1603 is a 2 bedroom apartment with a Marina view and has an
> approx net area of 1128 sq ft,
>
> Apartment T-1306 is a 2 bedroom apartment which is Marina facing and again
> has an approx net area of 1128 sq ft.
>
> I have attached the payment plans for both these apartments and also the
> apartment plan.
>
> I hope this information proves useful.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> <http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk> http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk
>
>
> Adam Price
> Dubai Select
>
> W: <http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk> www.dubaiselect.co.uk
> DDI: 0161 488 3561
> T: 0870 111 0000
> F: 0161 485 8707
>
>
>
> Information in this email supersedes any previous information we may have
> sent in respect of any property availability, price or payment terms. Any
> information that we distribute to our customers is produced in good faith
> and believed to be correct at the time of sending to the best of our
> knowledge, but should not be relied upon as a statement of fact. Nothing in
> this e-mail or any attachment shall be an acceptance of any offer previously
> made nor shall it be itself an offer capable of acceptance to form a legally
> binding contract.
>
> The information in this e-mail (including any files transmitted with it) is
> confidential and may also be legally privileged. It is intended for the
> addressee only. We do not accept any liability (in negligence or otherwise)
> arising from any third party acting, or refraining from acting, on such
> information. Unauthorised recipients are required to maintain
> confidentiality. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify us
> immediately, destroy any copies and delete it from your computer system. Any
> use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is
> prohibited. We assert the right to object to any misuses of the contents of
> this e-mail or attached documents. Whilst we run anti-virus software on all
> e-mails we are not liable for any loss or damage. The recipient is advised
> to run their own anti-virus software.
>
>

Er...firstly Scooby before anything, way to go for posting a confidential email on a public forum, doesn't show the greatest business acumen and integrity on your part but it really wasn't necessary, the plan alone would have sufficed.

Secondly, I think the usual "saviours" of this forum will agree with me when I say that this is not a legal forum in any shape or form, its only about the skyscrapers themselves. Trust me, I’m not just being facetious but speaking from experience when a few of us were discussing our investment issues and it caused a commotion.

Thirdly, if you have any design issues at all, you should first be discussing this with Dubai Select themselves. And if you feel there are legal implications then you need a lawyer. No one in this forum will give you legal advice.

And finally, with regards to your plan, unfortunately cannot read all the details on it..e.g. what floors it represents and the date, but it is clearly not the same as the one I have (and it appears Morrismarina has too) which clearly shows the 2 bed corner apt. layout to be identical to your "latest" version or as you like call it the "miserable balcony" version. Once again, you need to speak to DS about this issue. I really do hope you resolve whatever it is you wish to achieve amicably but like I have said before amongst all the people that I know who have purchased apts. (especially Marina facing owners) there is nothing but delight as new layouts and size increases have been announced. Admittedly, I only know ppl who have purchased 1-bed apts.

Naz Uk
We have had numerous conversations with Dubai Select over the last week even today but virtually no sympathy was shown for having changed a 13sqm approx balcony into a 3.7 balcony with big walls obstructing the view which has upset us greatly, this was classified as a refinement to the finer details in the architecture and they tried offer us more expensive appartments at their listed price which we cannot afford. Our mistake to sign the contract they claimed. We went to a great deal of trouble to buy this appartment with a fantastic balcony before the Dubai property law and it should all have gone a lot better, even a cancellation with some losses would now leave us feeling high and dry.
As this is a relating to a change to the architecture some of the issues do belong here, please let us know to which forum we should address our legal / investment concerns. Sorry to all who are offended that we posted what seem to be some non architectural issues on this forum but I'm a novice here!
Scooby

Well personally, I dont know of any forums specifically for buyers involved in disputes or those seeking legal advice, maybe someone who knows of such can post such a link.

But once again, going back to the contract, which its a well known fact in Dubai is the only legal document that will be considered in a dispute (in fact i've read that the English copy is also rendered useless in Dubai as only the Arabic contract will be honoured) you need to look at the plan in your contract and see if THIS differs from your current layout in any significant way. You need to ignore all plans either sent to you or ones you may have seen in brochures/websites/emails as they will mean nothing contractually.

Also a point to note, is it me or does it seem that your 2-bed has now increased in size along with the 1-bed apts by quite a margin? So i guess all is not lost, as you have gained more space within.

^^ just sell the apartment then.

NOW before a new tower in front of the torch is announced.

you won't lose money. no way.

What is all the fuss about the miserable balcony? What about the crappy kitchen. Oh no it can't be a kitchen as such, it doesn't have any walls.

Considering developers charge the same price per sq ft for balconies as interiors, I would prefer more of the latter.

There will be no chance of getting them to change the external appearance of the building as this has probably been done to the structural engineers requirements so insist that the internal extra space is put to good use with a luxury kitchen with breakfast bar and plenty of stainless steel and granite.

End on a rapture not a rupture!

You do have the right to compensation.

it is blatent fraud and false advertising, regardless of what you signed in th contract.

you are very lucky all this was done in the uk.

contact a lawyer. this forum cant help you beyond that. it is afterall just about skyscrapers. despite the content of this thread!

Very true Dubai - there are all kinds of people you could attack them through ... they take it up themselves so it shouldn't cost anything:

Advertising Standards Authority
Office of Fair Trading
etc.

Ok....in the mean time...back to the Skyscraper, The Torch...

Groundwork to date:

12-04-2006 - Commencement of the 1st layer anchoring system
11-04-2006 - Capping beam construction complete
06-04-2006 - Excavation of the central mould 50% complete
30-03-2006 - 850mm shore piling stage complete
27-03-2006 - Capping Beam construction officially commenced
25-03-2006 - Excavation work commenced on the central mould
05-03-2006 - 50% of the 850mm shoring piling completed
01-02-2006 - The 850mm shoring piling stage officially commenced
25-01-2006 - The guide wall construction for the shoring piles completed

That's all for now, more updates and pics coming soon. Back to "DIY Lawyers - Part 2"...

Scooby - NAZ does have a few valid points. However, I would say that it is still useful for you to air your points on this thread. If nothing else, it will alert potential investors. There is only so much you can post about a Tower.

Just check out some of the other threads and you will note poster bias based on where they are investing. :) By the way Naz is a TT investor so he is right in protecting his interests by being reasonable in his responses. Check Naz's rants on other threads and you'll know what I mean! :cheers:

As for your concern about original balcony size having been reduced substantially, if your reason for the purchase was based on the size of the balcony then I am sure DS are reasonable people and would offer you a full refund. Incidentally, I'm sure they will have no problem reselling your apartment.
The next thing to consider is, did you buy with a view to settle in Dubai Marina or is it an investment? Furthermore, is it a short term or long term investment?
If you are going to settle there then your case for a refund should be stronger as will possibly effect the quality of living. If your intention is to be a short-term investor then as advised by Dubaiflo (I think!), just flip it. You'll make money. If you are a long term investor then I think you, like most investors, will go through a lot more hoops before you finally get your apartment and yet still it might not be what you had originally expected. I include external factors like other towers being/tobe built around TT.

There you have it!
Good luck!

Any information that we distribute to our customers is produced in good faith ... but should not be relied upon as a statement of fact.I.E. We can say whatever we want at any time, make any changes we want at any time, and you can't do a damn thing about it... and by the way, don't you dare show this email to anyone else.

What kind of company is this! Shiesters!!

The part of the email that starts "The information in this e-mail (including any files transmitted with it) is confidential and may also be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee only....." is normal for all business email. It is added to almost every email I see these days.

Also it is normal for any company to state that changes are allowed to the design at any time. I think most development contracts will have this statement.

I think the same is stated in the Mag 218 contract

[QUOTE=scoobydoobyBUY]

what says umer sheikh?


I say they've fucked you mate!! - At the end of the day, what goes in a court of law is the contract that you have SIGNED. If your contract has a different balcony layout, and you signed and agreed to that then you are fucked!! - Unless they are sympathetic, and review your case, I doubt there is anything you can do.

It just goes to show how some companies will use under hand tactic to make a sale. I think that is out of order. Have you spoken to the MD of the company Mark Stott - I think that is his name.

At the end of the day, you will still have a nice appartment, and in the long term, will still make a good capital appreciation on it.

It doesnt matter whats in the contract. that isnt the issiue

the problem is false advertising.

Anyhow, why hasnt anyonone from dubai select come to clariffy anything?

they have posted before when all was rosey, now there is troulble, they have dived out of site.

at least Wind came out and admitted what had happened to their project. this developer cant even do that.

i wonder why?

Will all balconies now have bricked up side walls ?

Have you spoken to the MD of the company Mark Stott - I think that is his name.

Yes that is his name - also here is his company philosophy.

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/media/images/quote.gif

Quote from an email sent to us by Adam Price (recently promoted) of Dubai Select on the 16th Jan 2006:

"The Torch contract specifically states the entitlment to Freehold as soon as its reasonably possible. The advantage to purchasing with Dubai Select being that as we are a UK company this increases the security of your investment in terms of a UK legally binding contract and both pre and post sales support."

Quote from an email sent to us by Adam Price (recently promoted) of Dubai Select on the 16th Jan 2006:

"The Torch contract specifically states the entitlment to Freehold as soon as its reasonably possible. The advantage to purchasing with Dubai Select being that as we are a UK company this increases the security of your investment in terms of a UK legally binding contract and both pre and post sales support."

Well, Dumb Ass!
Go see a solicitor in UK who will charge you several £K and you might just get your original money back in a few years time.

So you believe it is true.

No.
you sue them for false advertising.

you get to
a] Keep the appartment
b] have a nice lot of compensation money to furnish it with.

costs will likely have to be paid by dubai select.

then again the company could just offer compensation to all those who have lost balcony space. who thought they were getting more.

^^FYI DUABI is 21 and as far as i know not a lawyer

Far comment that the website plan and the contract plans are not the same and you could regard that as false adevertising.

But if the contract shows the New Plan then really thats what you signed for. And anyway all contracts allow for a certain percentage of alteration and usually mention the amount and some have a process to follow if you don't agree etc.

But keep us informed if you get any joy or not as someone mentioned maybe worth getting the MD's attention to aleast bring to his attention. You'll be supprised how stuff that goes on at ground level never reaches the MD's.

I can't understand how you can blame anyone but yourselves by not reading the contract properly before signing!

this is not signing for a new cable package you are buying an expensive property, grow up! save your fees to lawyers, sell your flat and learn from the experience.

Quote from an email sent to us by Adam Price (recently promoted) of Dubai Select on the 16th Jan 2006:

"The Torch contract specifically states the entitlment to Freehold as soon as its reasonably possible. The advantage to purchasing with Dubai Select being that as we are a UK company this increases the security of your investment in terms of a UK legally binding contract and both pre and post sales support."


What a load of bollocks!! - The contract is not UK legally binding !! - its UAE binding!!! - the contract is with a UAE based company (Torch Select - if I recall) - The governing body is the UAE Government!!!

Can someone correct me if Im wrong!?!

So what did you end up buying Umer just out of interest?