I'm sick of hearing that comment that everyone should be content as at least it got delivered. That is what Select were telling everyone who walks into their sales office, "you can trust us, we are still building so your apartment will be delivered"

That comment is analogous to saying to a woman you have just raped, "at least I didn't murder you".

Or should I have used the example of the woman on her mobile who smashed into my 6 month old 4x4, "why are you so upset, at least you weren't hurt". Mitigating circumstances do not pardon the original sin.

I'm sick of hearing that comment that everyone should be content as at least it got delivered. That is what Select were telling everyone who walks into their sales office, "you can trust us, we are still building so your apartment will be delivered"

That comment is analogous to saying to a woman you have just raped, "atleast I didn't murder you".

Or should I have used the example of the woman who smashed into my 6 month old 4x4, "atleast you weren't hurt" Mitigating circumstances do not pardon the original sin.

Grow up!

it is not of ur business if english is my primary language or not
i'm not on school or english lesson here
if u understand arabic i can write by arabic
but cos u r speak or understand only english i have to write with it
hope u got my message

Where is your sense of humour man. You hinted that you were a bit of a twat when you wrote your original statement. You could have read it & laughed at yourself but now you confirm it. So go on write it in arabic.

Don't you READ THESE THREADS??????????

What a pointless post.... :bash:

Give it a rest, man. Surely Select are doing what they can to remedy the situation. At least your apartment in the Point or whereever got delivered, which can't be said for other developments in UAE. There are hundrests of units in the Torch and about ten people including you are unhappy.

........Surely Select are doing what they can to remedy the situation.........

:bash:

Have you just returned from a 36 month lunar expedition?

Select are doing everything they can NOT to remedy problems - you're statement proves you have absolutely no grasp of what Select Group are about OR..... more likely.... you're another Select plant.

Sure... we got something... a pile of crap which leaks and catches fire. Select do not remedy anything unless you drag them kicking and screaming.

If you're a Torch owner you have a very rude awakening ahead of you!

Grow up!

A typical comment from someone who's just been shot down in flames. Is that really the best you can do? Oh sorry, I forgot you work for Select Group - now it makes perfect sense!

A typical comment from someone who's just been shot down in flames. Is that really the best you can do? Oh sorry, I forgot you work for Select Group - now it makes perfect sense!

I am happy with my investment so far, that's all. I wish I did work for Select Group, look how much money they've made.

I am happy with my investment so far, that's all. I wish I did work for Select Group, look how much money they've made.

I agree SO FAR I'm happy but dont know what the future holds. Agree that the 2-3 yr delays was annoying but nearly all projects in Dubai are late anyway.

Agree with TB that there have been other projects had we invested in would have brought better returns as a lowrise tower like Dowaray Bay got completed quicker due to it being smaller in size and brought immediate good rental returns. However some of us that invested in the Torch were offered the LPP which wasnt available on other developments. So all investments have there pro's and con's.

Agree.

7.5% yield is pretty good in current climate.

I agree SO FAR I'm happy but dont know what the future holds. Agree that the 2-3 yr delays was annoying but nearly all projects in Dubai are late anyway.

Agree with TB that there have been other projects had we invested in would have brought better returns as a lowrise tower like Dowaray Bay got completed quicker due to it being smaller in size and brought immediate good rental returns. However some of us that invested in the Torch were offered the LPP which wasnt available on other developments. So all investments have there pro's and con's.

I wish you guys the very best of luck - we're all in this for the same reasons.
I would very much recommend getting the Torch IOA on top of things ASAP though. You guys may be lucky - Select may have learnt something along the way but it would pay you guys to check things out now and not wait till the DLP expires.

My concerns about Select stem from their previous performance and their development schedule. They've got a small team of people trying to manage a shed load of development work. Coupled with that they don't really know what they're doing in terms of QC and project oversight. Hence the reason the early devs are in such a mess. They try to outsource the technical stuff to consultant like NEB who are absolutely incompetent.

Select Group is a gravy train for the owners and directors but it appears they may have let their ambitions and greed overtake their ability to deliver what they promised.

Don't get me wrong - most of Dubai is shiny on the surface and held together with bits of tape underneath. Most people accept that to a point but when the buildings are dangerous that's a different matter.

So in summary - don't be lulled into Select's ROI and occupancy mantra. Make sure they've given you what you paid for in terms of working MEP and decent safety systems.

SGrCRAP - I'm a bit confused, are you an unhappy investor in the Torch or do you have a beef with Select from another development?

SGrCRAP - I'm a bit confused, are you an unhappy investor in the Torch or do you have a beef with Select from another development?

Another Select Dev. I'm trying to stop Torch owners getting stiffed in the same way we have been. We got shafted by Select at every possible opportunity. The Addendum was the start and it just went on and on from there. Once things start going wrong you'll see Select's true colours.

Another Select Dev. I'm trying to stop Torch owners getting stiffed in the same way we have been. We got shafted by Select at every possible opportunity. The Addendum was the start and it just went on and on from there. Once things start going wrong you'll see Select's true colours.

And I'm extremely grateful to have a heads up on what to expect from SGrCRAP. I only hope The Torch is not as bad as The Point a year from now. Fact - Those investors got stiffed just like we are now.

And I'm extremely grateful to have a heads up on what to expect from SGrCRAP. I only hope The Torch is not as bad as The Point a year from now. Fact - Those investors got stiffed just like we are now.

Happy to help you guys wherever possible. I'm selling up (If I can:ohno:) but if you guys can sidestep some of the Select BS along the way it might save you a lot of pain and cash. If I manage to exit I'll post a survivors guide to owning Select Group Units and then I'm history from Select threads.

Happy to accept launch price if Select are reading this :lol:

Where is your sense of humour man. You hinted that you were a bit of a twat when you wrote your original statement. You could have read it & laughed at yourself but now you confirm it. So go on write it in arabic.

At least one person laughed at my toilet humour!
:banana::lol::banana:

Can anybody remember what the Oqood fees were for the torch? I believe Botanica's are 3,000 dirhams but I already have an Oqood certificate from a couple of years ago after i paid the 1% law 13 registration......

Give it a rest, man. Surely Select are doing what they can to remedy the situation. At least your apartment in the Point or whereever got delivered, which can't be said for other developments in UAE. There are hundrests of units in the Torch and about ten people including you are unhappy.

How can the majority be happy bearing in mind the long delay in delivering their apartments, the fact that they received 2 star quality when promised 5 star and as for the one-sided punitive contract and its amendments!!!!!!
How can the majority of investors be happy?

Can anybody remember what the Oqood fees were for the torch? I believe Botanica's are 3,000 dirhams but I already have an Oqood certificate from a couple of years ago after i paid the 1% law 13 registration......

^^

AED3k

How can the majority be happy bearing in mind the long delay in delivering their apartments, the fact that they received 2 star quality when promised 5 star and as for the one-sided punitive contract and its amendments!!!!!!
How can the majority of investors be happy?

Nearly all projects have had big delays. Also in terms
of quality it's standard marina quality.

^^

AED3k

Hi Sid, Thanks for the info. Did you pay your law 13 fee a couple of years ago as well? I ask because when I paid mine, a few months later I received an Oqood certificate from Select

Hi Sid, Thanks for the info. Did you pay your law 13 fee a couple of years ago as well? I ask because when I paid mine, a few months later I received an Oqood certificate from Select

Yep - paid 1% registration fee a few years back, but only got a receipt.

OQOOD (means 'contract' in Arabic) was paid on completion.

:bash:

Have you just returned from a 36 month lunar expedition?

Select are doing everything they can NOT to remedy problems - you're statement proves you have absolutely no grasp of what Select Group are about OR..... more likely.... you're another Select plant.

Sure... we got something... a pile of crap which leaks and catches fire. Select do not remedy anything unless you drag them kicking and screaming.

If you're a Torch owner you have a very rude awakening ahead of you!

More likely he has just returned from a 36 month Lunatic expedition.:nuts:

Can anybody tell me what the service charges are for the torch?

Can anybody tell me what the service charges are for the torch?

I was originally quoted 21.2 Inc Chiller :nuts::nuts:(but haven't taken handover yet) --- unless the un-IOA has managed to reduce them ??

It's a joke but what can owners do ? RERA have apparently approved them though ?

I'd just like to say how delighted I am with this investment. Late delivery is the only issue. I rented my apartment within a week for AED100000 back in August, single cheque.

It's funny going away from this thread for a few months and returning to see the same handful of paranoid nutters banging on and on and on and on about their grand schemes for revenge and legal redress. Absolute clowns.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

How can the majority be happy bearing in mind the long delay in delivering their apartments, the fact that they received 2 star quality when promised 5 star and as for the one-sided punitive contract and its amendments!!!!!!
How can the majority of investors be happy?

Bet you're an expert on 5 star quality....:cheers::cheers:

Well done on renting you apartment out and getting one cheque before it was handed over.

Lets see what you get for it next August, and the one after!!!! :bash:

I'd just like to say how delighted I am with this investment. Late delivery is the only issue. I rented my apartment within a week for AED100000 back in August, single cheque.

It's funny going away from this thread for a few months and returning to see the same handful of paranoid nutters banging on and on and on and on about their grand schemes for revenge and legal redress. Absolute clowns.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I'm sick of hearing that comment that everyone should be content as at least it got delivered. That is what Select were telling everyone who walks into their sales office, "you can trust us, we are still building so your apartment will be delivered"

That comment is analogous to saying to a woman you have just raped, "at least I didn't murder you".

Or should I have used the example of the woman on her mobile who smashed into my 6 month old 4x4, "why are you so upset, at least you weren't hurt". Mitigating circumstances do not pardon the original sin.

Comparing property investment to rape and murder is absolutely disgusting. You should be massively ashamed of yourself. Next time choose a less imbecilic metaphor you fool.:bash::bash:

I'd just like to say how delighted I am with this investment. Late delivery is the only issue. I rented my apartment within a week for AED100000 back in August, single cheque.

It's funny going away from this thread for a few months and returning to see the same handful of paranoid nutters banging on and on and on and on about their grand schemes for revenge and legal redress. Absolute clowns.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

very happy for you :ohno:

I'd just like to say how delighted I am with this investment. Late delivery is the only issue. I rented my apartment within a week for AED100000 back in August, single cheque.

It's funny going away from this thread for a few months and returning to see the same handful of paranoid nutters banging on and on and on and on about their grand schemes for revenge and legal redress. Absolute clowns.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Watch out, you might get accused of being an select employee ...:lol::nuts:

I rent one bedroom flat on Torch...it is wonderful, nice view

I am happy with my investment so far

Agree. 7.5% yield is pretty good in current climate.

2 bed 05 and 06 facing units are fetching 100,000 aed now. Exclusive have quite a few customers on the waiting list that would like to rent these units I'm told.

Yes I can confirm again, last few units was rented for 95-100K ,we also have a client , ready to pay 110K with 2 cheques for 2 BR but only 05 or 06 higher floor unit (with the half closed kitchen).

I'd just like to say how delighted I am with this investment. ... I rented my apartment within a week for AED100000 back in August, single cheque.

^^ Your cheques are in the post. Merry Christmas. :banana::banana: :cheers:

I was originally quoted 21.2 Inc Chiller :nuts::nuts:(but haven't taken handover yet) --- unless the un-IOA has managed to reduce them ??

Service charges are AED 14.78 + AED 4.95 chiller + AED 1 reserve fund

:lol::lol:Service charges are AED 14.78 + AED 4.95 chiller + AED 1 reserve fund

= 20.73 AED PSF --STILL A RIP OFF ?-SORRY I WAS BEING PARANOID QUOTING 21.2 AED PSF:lol::lol:

ON 1200 Sq Ft thats 24k aed service charge --makes the 100k look a bit sick but agreed it''s better than anything in UK except I begrudge paying 20 aed psf when everyone knows where the extra 5 aed psf is going -- IN SOMEONES DEEP POCKETS:nuts::nuts:

^^ Yes needs to come down by about AED 5 in my opinion. Maybe when all units are eventually handed over or sold on after legal action, the price can come down and save everyone about £80 per month. I doubt select are paying for the service charges of those not handed over yet, even if they should.

Comparing property investment to rape and murder is absolutely disgusting. You should be massively ashamed of yourself. Next time choose a less imbecilic metaphor you fool.:bash::bash:

Seems the thrust of my analogy was lost on you. Imbecilic!:ohno:

I was not making "comparison between investment and rape" I was comparing the excuses used to mitigate both crimes, "theft &/or deception" and "rape".

To know that you will not be able to design, build and complete a project within 3 years, yet sign a contract with your buyers which you have no intention of honouring and will cause personal hardship or even financial ruin, is a serious crime in my opinion!

Select were able to raise free funding for their highly profitable ventures by duping people into believing that;
A. the projects would be completed in an impossibly short period of time. (I repeatedly tried to warn people about this but the other experts knew better.)
B. the projects would be of superior luxury to the benchmark of the marina, justifying their higher than average sales price. (Again I tried to warn people about this claim as they had never built anything and had no track record to demonstrate their deliverables.)
C. the locations of the plots were prime waterfront allowing them to enjoy unobstructed sea and marina views along with being within a short walk from all of the main attractions.
D. the rental returns would be higher than the average return for the marina due to A, B and C.
E. if they were unable to complete within a reasonable period of the target completion date, buyers had the safeguard of receiving compensation. Or in the case of Botanica and BC, a full refund.

As I explained, all of the above were used to obtain sales and free funding for their projects. Select called in 90% payments well ahead of construction progress in order to bridge the funding gap between the LPP and the SPP. Therefore using their investors to create more profit for themselves and more hardship for the SPP purchasers. Many people stated that the availability of the LPP was the only reason they bought, the truth is their SPP neighbours are the ones who made it possible yet Select were the beneficiaries.

If you think that obtaining 100k return is good on a 7 year investment of over AED1Million, then you are not a qualified person to be criticising others. That represents a percentage well below what would have been achieved elsewhere in the world, including the UK. The only people who have won here is Select, simply because they lied, cheated and stole from their investors, particularly those on the SPP.

All of the above is my considered opinion based on information believed to be factual at the time of writing this comment.

Seems the thrust of my analogy was lost on you. Imbecilic!:ohno:

I was not making "comparison between investment and rape" I was comparing the excuses used to mitigate both crimes, "theft &/or deception" and "rape".

To know that you will not be able to design, build and complete a project within 3 years, yet sign a contract with your buyers which you have no intention of honouring and will cause personal hardship or even financial ruin, is a serious crime in my opinion!

Select were able to raise free funding for their highly profitable ventures by duping people into believing that;
A. the projects would be completed in an impossibly short period of time. (I repeatedly tried to warn people about this but the other experts knew better.)
B. the projects would be of superior luxury to the benchmark of the marina, justifying their higher than average sales price. (Again I tried to warn people about this claim as they had never built anything and had no track record to demonstrate their deliverables.)
C. the locations of the plots were prime waterfront allowing them to enjoy unobstructed sea and marina views along with being within a short walk from all of the main attractions.
D. the rental returns would be higher than the average return for the marina due to A, B and C.
E. if they were unable to complete within a reasonable period of the target completion date, buyers had the safeguard of receiving compensation. Or in the case of Botanica and BC, a full refund.

As I explained, all of the above were used to obtain sales and free funding for their projects. Select called in 90% payments well ahead of construction progress in order to bridge the funding gap between the LPP and the SPP. Therefore using their investors to create more profit for themselves and more hardship for the SPP purchasers. Many people stated that the availability of the LPP was the only reason they bought, the truth is their SPP neighbours are the ones who made it possible yet Select were the beneficiaries.

If you think that obtaining 100k return is good on a 7 year investment of over AED1Million, then you are not a qualified person to be criticising others. That represents a percentage well below what would have been achieved elsewhere in the world, including the UK. The only people who have won here is Select, simply because they lied, cheated and stole from their investors, particularly those on the SPP.

All of the above is my considered opinion based on information believed to be factual at the time of writing this comment.

Everything you say here is 100% correct and true.

But you know what really amazes me ??

We've all been saying this for quite a few years now, there must be hundreds of posts on the matter. In fact it's been boring and repetitive for a ridiculous amount of time time now. But what surprises me is that you've got the time, inclination and outright stamina to keep repeating this stuff over and over and over.

No sane person would be doing this. I have a vision that you're a lunatic in the asylum, pacing up and down the corridor repeating the same nursery ryhme over and over to yourself. You really should have sought professional medical treatment by now. You must try and get out more. Christ knows what your wife and children must think of you !! :dunno:

Everything you say here is 100% correct and true.



Wow! I feel like I have just had an Epiphany. My oldest adversary has just decreed that I am 100% correct about all things Select :)

Sorry if I was boring you Morris, however I thought it was a relevant point. I had to respond as someone was trying to put a nasty spin on my earlier post.

Don't worry about my family life, I don't have kids anymore, they are adults now and due in from the pub any minute.:drunk:

Bet you're an expert on 5 star quality....:cheers::cheers:

No, but I know London Council highrise quality from when I had the misfortune to see it. It is not a direct analogy but considerable similarities do exist. I appreciate that in hindsight there is not much that can be done in a country with 'toothless' regulators and with developers and consultants who seem to have 'diplomatic immunity'..... but even you have to admit that the delivery is well short of what was promised and actually documented in the glossy brochures!

Wow! I feel like I have just had an Epiphany. My oldest adversary has just decreed that I am 100% correct about all things Select :)

Sorry if I was boring you Morris, however I thought it was a relevant point. I had to respond as someone was trying to put a nasty spin on my earlier post.

Don't worry about my family life, I don't have kids anymore, they are adults now and due in from the pub any minute.:drunk:

Perhaps a precautionary checkup with your GP might be a good idea, sometimes you think you're OK when you're not and it's virtually impossible to see the outward signs of dementia yourself. They have some very powerful drugs these days that your GP may well feel will be of some benefit to you. It's worth a chat with him that's all I'm saying. The sooner this kind of disability is nipped in the bud at the early stages the better the chance of some sort of recovery. :cheers:

Seems the thrust of my analogy was lost on you. Imbecilic!:ohno:

I was not making "comparison between investment and rape" I was comparing the excuses used to mitigate both crimes, "theft &/or deception" and "rape".

To know that you will not be able to design, build and complete a project within 3 years, yet sign a contract with your buyers which you have no intention of honouring and will cause personal hardship or even financial ruin, is a serious crime in my opinion!

Select were able to raise free funding for their highly profitable ventures by duping people into believing that;
A. the projects would be completed in an impossibly short period of time. (I repeatedly tried to warn people about this but the other experts knew better.)
B. the projects would be of superior luxury to the benchmark of the marina, justifying their higher than average sales price. (Again I tried to warn people about this claim as they had never built anything and had no track record to demonstrate their deliverables.)
C. the locations of the plots were prime waterfront allowing them to enjoy unobstructed sea and marina views along with being within a short walk from all of the main attractions.
D. the rental returns would be higher than the average return for the marina due to A, B and C.
E. if they were unable to complete within a reasonable period of the target completion date, buyers had the safeguard of receiving compensation. Or in the case of Botanica and BC, a full refund.

As I explained, all of the above were used to obtain sales and free funding for their projects. Select called in 90% payments well ahead of construction progress in order to bridge the funding gap between the LPP and the SPP. Therefore using their investors to create more profit for themselves and more hardship for the SPP purchasers. Many people stated that the availability of the LPP was the only reason they bought, the truth is their SPP neighbours are the ones who made it possible yet Select were the beneficiaries.

If you think that obtaining 100k return is good on a 7 year investment of over AED1Million, then you are not a qualified person to be criticising others. That represents a percentage well below what would have been achieved elsewhere in the world, including the UK. The only people who have won here is Select, simply because they lied, cheated and stole from their investors, particularly those on the SPP.

All of the above is my considered opinion based on information believed to be factual at the time of writing this comment.

You really need to find something better to do with your time you laughable clown. :lol::lol::lol::lol::nuts:

very happy for you :ohno:

I assume you're not from anywhere near Manchester, with that as your Avatar.:ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

I'd just like to say how delighted I am with this investment.................

You really need to find something better to do with your time you laughable clown. :lol::lol::lol::lol::nuts:

ROI over the period of less than 1.5% and present time negative equity which cancels out the return. Remind me who's the clown, Mr Delighted from Wilmslow :lol:

Morris, just sour grapes with you, it's not my fault that you haven't got anything right. :?

I assume you're not from anywhere near Manchester, with that as your Avatar.:ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

Correct :lol: I hear there's a few CITY fans in ABU DHABI now too :lol::lol:
(George Best was my hero thats why i'm a RED simple)
Happy xmas any way :cheers:

but agreed it''s better than anything in UK except I begrudge paying 20 aed psf when everyone knows where the extra 5 aed psf is going -- IN SOMEONES DEEP POCKETS

Welcome to Dubai :lol::lol:

ROI over the period of less than 1.5% and present time negative equity which cancels out the return. Remind me who's the clown, Mr Delighted from Wilmslow :lol:

Morris, just sour grapes with you, it's not my fault that you haven't got anything right. :?

ROI PRN FYI, IOU PSQ QDS.................................NOB. :):)

Merry Christmas :cheers:

http://i40.tinypic.com/swtmag.jpg

.......... Remind me who's the clown,.....



ROI PRN FYI, IOU PSQ QDS.................................NOB. :):)

Thanks for obliging. :lol:

A lot of people on this forum are accusing certain people of working for Select. I believe there to be a couple of regular posters to be working for or more the case used to work for Select Group either in the UK or Dubai as a sales agent.

I think they should do the right thing & own up now to working with this dishonest company. Then we know where they stand & why they may be always looking to the positive on what has been a disgusting company in the way they have run their business. On the other hand maybe they have been duped as well thinking they were selling apartments from an honest developer. I think we as buyers are owed this to know who may have a hidden agenda on this forum.

So who was a Select employee or sales agent commission only or whatever?

OK I'll own up.........I work for Select. :banana:

OK I'll own up.........I work for Select. :banana:

No Sh*t Sherlock

23/December/2011

Dubai Marina

http://i40.tinypic.com/116qtyo.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lmnbc8.jpg

Torch , from the lift

http://i39.tinypic.com/280jj9u.jpg

A lot of people on this forum are accusing certain people of working for Select. I believe there to be a couple of regular posters to be working for or more the case used to work for Select Group either in the UK or Dubai as a sales agent.

I think they should do the right thing & own up now to working with this dishonest company. Then we know where they stand & why they may be always looking to the positive on what has been a disgusting company in the way they have run their business. On the other hand maybe they have been duped as well thinking they were selling apartments from an honest developer. I think we as buyers are owed this to know who may have a hidden agenda on this forum.

So who was a Select employee or sales agent commission only or whatever?

Well it is clear it is not True Blue, AB31, Torch Owner or myself, as none of us ever have a good word for Select, their lies or shoddy building practices.

http://i39.tinypic.com/280jj9u.jpg

This is not directed at The Torch building alone but all the supertalls excluding Burj Khalifa. There was just never enough though or money put into developing efficient building cleaning or maintenance solutions. It looks like The Torch will be cleaned twice a year. I don't think that will be enough given the dusty climate. Also you can see that while cleaning works are going on that it will have an effect on the free use of the outdoor facilities. I noticed it in JBR also, where they close the pools that are below the work and close off sections to foot traffic. The difference there is that there is other pools you can go to or other places you can walk.

Looking at the Torch, you can see that it is split into 3 sections. With this design it would have been fairly easy, or in regard to the bottom section, very easy to provide a dedicated maintenance gantry which could hoist a wide cradle from the podium. This would leave the mini crane BMU free to service the top section only.

I also feel that not enough consideration was given to using modern glass technology like self cleaning glass or specialist antistatic coatings or active coatings which reduce the need for cleaning. glass used throughout Dubai is of very poor quality in general. Next time you look at a clean piece of glass, check the reflection and see how uneven the surface is. None of the glass produced in Dubai would have made it out of a Pilkington factory due to its lack of flatness.

Correct :lol: I hear there's a few CITY fans in ABU DHABI now too :lol::lol:
(George Best was my hero thats why i'm a RED simple)
Happy xmas any way :cheers:

I am definitely not from Manchester but do have a season ticket for my Theatre of Dreams. My late father lived in Manchester and introduced to George Best. I hope that is OK with Barry...:cheers:

Sorry I know it is not a football thread but beats slagging SHilecT.

A lot of people on this forum are accusing certain people of working for Select. I believe there to be a couple of regular posters to be working for or more the case used to work for Select Group either in the UK or Dubai as a sales agent.

I think they should do the right thing & own up now to working with this dishonest company. Then we know where they stand & why they may be always looking to the positive on what has been a disgusting company in the way they have run their business. On the other hand maybe they have been duped as well thinking they were selling apartments from an honest developer. I think we as buyers are owed this to know who may have a hidden agenda on this forum.

So who was a Select employee or sales agent commission only or whatever?

I work for Select. Merry Christmas from all of us on the team. I hope you enjoy you're rubbish apartments, now they're virtually worthless. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://i39.tinypic.com/280jj9u.jpg

This is not directed at The Torch building alone but all the supertalls excluding Burj Khalifa. There was just never enough though or money put into developing efficient building cleaning or maintenance solutions. It looks like The Torch will be cleaned twice a year. I don't think that will be enough given the dusty climate. Also you can see that while cleaning works are going on that it will have an effect on the free use of the outdoor facilities. I noticed it in JBR also, where they close the pools that are below the work and close off sections to foot traffic. The difference there is that there is other pools you can go to or other places you can walk.

Looking at the Torch, you can see that it is split into 3 sections. With this design it would have been fairly easy, or in regard to the bottom section, very easy to provide a dedicated maintenance gantry which could hoist a wide cradle from the podium. This would leave the mini crane BMU free to service the top section only.

I also feel that not enough consideration was given to using modern glass technology like self cleaning glass or specialist antistatic coatings or active coatings which reduce the need for cleaning. glass used throughout Dubai is of very poor quality in general. Next time you look at a clean piece of glass, check the reflection and see how uneven the surface is. None of the glass produced in Dubai would have made it out of a Pilkington factory due to its lack of flatness.

Good point. You're a deep thinker.:ohno::ohno:

^^ Barry, don't forget to fwd me that DCE pipe lagging report you were working on before you leave the office for the Christmas break, thanks mate. :okay:

http://i39.tinypic.com/280jj9u.jpg

This is not directed at The Torch building alone but all the supertalls excluding Burj Khalifa. There was just never enough though or money put into developing efficient building cleaning or maintenance solutions. It looks like The Torch will be cleaned twice a year. I don't think that will be enough given the dusty climate. Also you can see that while cleaning works are going on that it will have an effect on the free use of the outdoor facilities. I noticed it in JBR also, where they close the pools that are below the work and close off sections to foot traffic. The difference there is that there is other pools you can go to or other places you can walk.

Looking at the Torch, you can see that it is split into 3 sections. With this design it would have been fairly easy, or in regard to the bottom section, very easy to provide a dedicated maintenance gantry which could hoist a wide cradle from the podium. This would leave the mini crane BMU free to service the top section only.

I also feel that not enough consideration was given to using modern glass technology like self cleaning glass or specialist antistatic coatings or active coatings which reduce the need for cleaning. glass used throughout Dubai is of very poor quality in general. Next time you look at a clean piece of glass, check the reflection and see how uneven the surface is. None of the glass produced in Dubai would have made it out of a Pilkington factory due to its lack of flatness.

Hopefully I'll get some Pilkington glass for Christmas. I'll be sure to clean it then stare at it for a prolonged period, to avoid getting bored as the day begins to drag with friends and family. :crazy2::crazy2::yes::yes:

Have a good Christmas Steve, sorry I'm not in the Wilmslow office this year to hand you your Xmas bonus personally, but being in Dubai for the festive season is a nice change for me. Hope the wife like's the new Maserati any problem with it please give me or Giles a call. I promised you one like Mark's didn't I. Well done mate !! :cheers:

Thanks Morris! Hope you have a wonderful Christmas break and a very prosperous new year :cheers:

^^ Barry, don't forget to fwd me that DCE pipe lagging report you were working on before you leave the office for the Christmas break, thanks mate. :okay:

Sure Steve, I'll cc this True Blue legend as well, so he's got something to get excited about for the New Year. :lol::lol:

Sure Steve, I'll cc this True Blue legend as well, so he's got something to get excited about for the New Year. :lol::lol:

^^
:banana::lol::lol::banana:

Merry Christmas all and a happy ROI!

Have a good Christmas Steve, sorry I'm not in the Wilmslow office this year to hand you your Xmas bonus personally, but being in Dubai for the festive season is a nice change for me. Hope the wife like's the new Maserati any problem with it please give me or Giles a call. I promised you one like Mark's didn't I. Well done mate !! :cheers:

Ha bloody ha :cheers:

OK I'll own up.........I work for Select. :banana:

Well the silence is deafening! As least Morrismarina & Barry have come forward & admitted their part, fair enough. For that they must be commended. Its the others who have remained silent who check this forum & post regularly that deserve the real contempt.

So come on. I mean are you ashamed or something?

worldskyscraper(.)com

Well the silence is deafening! As least Morrismarina & Barry have come forward & admitted their part, fair enough. For that they must be commended. Its the others who have remained silent who check this forum & post regularly that deserve the real contempt.

So come on. I mean are you ashamed or something?

Thye dont work for SELECT they are just being sarcastic :cheers:

just heard from an agent that a 06 apartment middle floors in the Torch was sold for 950k in the last couple of weeks or so! it seems that the market is still dominated by bargain hunters. only discounted apartments are being sold. if you want to sell at what you believe to be fair value, you have to wait a long while to sell your property.

We sold 2 BR 06 unit (furnished) for 1.26 million 2 weeks ago, I think it was a good price for the seller.

We sold 2 BR 06 unit (furnished) for 1.26 million 2 weeks ago, I think it was a good price for the seller.

Yes, but what did the seller think? :lol:

Yes, but what did the seller think? :lol:

He/She would be very happy I think !! :lol::lol:

We sold 2 BR 06 unit (furnished) for 1.26 million 2 weeks ago, I think it was a good price for the seller.

What was OP Imre ? and was this Marina facing ?

Any idea if any 3 beds been re-sold ? (not many handed over yet !)

What was OP Imre ? and was this Marina facing ?

Any idea if any 3 beds been re-sold ? (not many handed over yet !)

06 is a marina facing apt and I believe the sellor probably received the OP.

What was OP Imre ? and was this Marina facing ?

Any idea if any 3 beds been re-sold ? (not many handed over yet !)

Marina facing 06 unit, OP was 1.25 million .(plus the owner paid for furniture pack , I dont know the price for it)

I have heard 3 BR's were sold around 1.7-2 million, depends on the view and floor.
I saw one for 2 million on the penthouse floors with upgraded interior.

^^^ the unit # of the apartment sold at 950k is 1406.

^^^ the unit # of the apartment sold at 950k is 1406.

That is with open kitchen in the living room , those units (below 30th) not too popular..

http://i39.tinypic.com/2eq9nbo.jpg

Serious question: how much sunlight does the pool get?

Hi all,
Can anyone recommend the best way of getting documentation securely sent over to Dubai? A signed for service of some sort.
Thanks in advance

Hi all,
Can anyone recommend the best way of getting documentation securely sent over to Dubai? A signed for service of some sort.
Thanks in advance

Fedex, UPS, DHL - all the usual ways.

Serious question: how much sunlight does the pool get?

A few weeks ago I stayed at the Media One Hotel which has the pool on the same side of the building and the sun was gone by 10am every morning. I would imagine the Torch will be much the same.

A few weeks ago I stayed at the Media One Hotel which has the pool on the same side of the building and the sun was gone by 10am every morning. I would imagine the Torch will be much the same.

Next time you should stay in the Torch and you can test it :)

Serious question: how much sunlight does the pool get?

http://i39.tinypic.com/wum8av.jpg

The pool gets full sun until late morning. After that the sun falls as shown above.

http://i39.tinypic.com/wum8av.jpg

The pool gets full sun until late morning. After that the sun falls as shown above.

I can't believe that it gets "full sun". Surely Marina Pinnacle and Mag 218 will shade it from the rising sun so there will only be a window of sun between say 9am and 10am. After 10am I expect it will peel off rapidly leaving partial sun until late morning.

Edit, I just had a look at Google Earth and it clearly shows you that the pool will be affected by Marina Pinnacle, Marina Heights and Mag 218 shadows. This is afterall the tallest block with lots of tall buildings nearby. The pool has be placed on the wrong elevation IMO.

Surely a selling point TB ? -"Shaded perefectly from summer sun"
and "within walking distance of Burj el Arab" LOL

Good thing is it is now finished so potential buyers can make up their own minds and don't need to rely on other peoples biased opinions.

Big game tonight so heading off to the pub with my box of tissues and preparing for the worst. Could be 5 points off the lead with on form 'Well as our next game. Oh dear,

tP9QpfEMvQc&feature=related

These images may be useful to understand how the sun falls and moves:

http://i43.tinypic.com/smzqeh.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/4ub6o6.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/wum8av.jpg

The pool gets very little sunlight. The pool is in the wrong place. End of story.

Dubai Steve, your pictures demonstrate the problem. The beam of sunlight is only about 20ft wide and only scans across the pool, probably narrowing as the sun transits between Mag 218 and Marina Pinnacle. I estimate the time of that photograph to be 8am. The next window will occur when the sun passes between Mag 218 and Marina Heights. That will probably last about 1 hour tops and will end around 10am.

Dubai Steve, what you need to realise now is that we are dealing with fact now and not your opinion anymore. Unless you want to stand there with a stop watch and camera then one or two snapshots representing a moment in time, do not prove a point.

These images may be useful to understand how the sun falls and moves:

http://i43.tinypic.com/smzqeh.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/4ub6o6.jpg


Actually the sun is rising not falling and I estimate the time will be between 7:30am and 8am in the morning. Not really sunbathing time.

Yes by fall, I mean how the light hits. There is plenty of terrace space on the left and front sides for sunbathing at other times of the day.

Surely a selling point TB ? -"Shaded perefectly from summer sun"
and "within walking distance of Burj el Arab" LOL

And built by a combination of Select/DCE without lagging of the chiller pipes!!!!:ohno:

My husband was in Dubai recently and sunbathed around the pool / terrace. He told me there were people around all 3 sides and there was a good atmosphere!

i was in dubai in sept, the sun did shine on the pool in the morning, cant remeber the time to be honest, but i do know that we also sat round at the front marina facing side of the terrace which had sun up until about 430pm approx, maybe different this time of year.

anyone know how far away the course for the dubai desert classic (golf) is from the torch ??

anyone know how far away the course for the dubai desert classic (golf) is from the torch ??

Walking distance too :lol:(another selling point SELECT ?)

Actually think you can watch from Golfcourse units get some binoculars ?

anyone know how far away the course for the dubai desert classic (golf) is from the torch ??

Its a good 20 minute walk (cross SZR by the metro bridge) although this time of year quite easy.

thanks guys / taxi will be even quicker then...

thanks guys / taxi will be even quicker then...

Thats the better option :lol:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6123/6014366475_05160957fd_o.jpg

Lets hope 2012 is the year that justice is done for SG and SP.

Lets hope 2012 is the year that justice is done for SG and SP.

Watch this space :). It's taking longer than I'd hoped but I promised to wreck Aslam's business and I'm a man of my word...

Watch this space :). It's taking longer than I'd hoped but I promised to wreck Aslam's business and I'm a man of my word...

What happened to all the people who entered legal action, and those who promised media campaigns etc? such a long time has passed now. What happened to "The Action Group" ?

Don't remind me of "the Irish Couple", so many people believed that nonsense was relevant to The Torch.

I have yet to see a single genuine posting confirming that legal action has actually worked (for anyone except the lawyers who must be laughing all the way to the bank as they win no matter what).

I have seen nothing in the newspapers to reflect adequately on these despicable companies.

What happened to all the people who entered legal action, and those who promised media campaigns etc? such a long time has passed now. What happened to "The Action Group" ?

Don't remind me of "the Irish Couple", so many people believed that nonsense was relevant to The Torch.

I have yet to see a single genuine posting confirming that legal action has actually worked (for anyone except the lawyers who must be laughing all the way to the bank as they win no matter what).

I have seen nothing in the newspapers to reflect adequately on these despicable companies.

Have to dash now but I hear www.selectdubaibeware.com is due for a revamp shortly, to celebrate 2012!
Happy New Year everyone!

Dubai Steve, your pictures demonstrate the problem. The beam of sunlight is only about 20ft wide and only scans across the pool, probably narrowing as the sun transits between Mag 218 and Marina Pinnacle. I estimate the time of that photograph to be 8am. The next window will occur when the sun passes between Mag 218 and Marina Heights. That will probably last about 1 hour tops and will end around 10am.

Dubai Steve, what you need to realise now is that we are dealing with fact now and not your opinion anymore. Unless you want to stand there with a stop watch and camera then one or two snapshots representing a moment in time, do not prove a point.

I intend to do just that, whilst staring at my reflection in a clean pane of Pilkington glass. Any idea where I can get a stop watch in Dubai? :nuts::nuts:

Watch this space :). It's taking longer than I'd hoped but I promised to wreck Aslam's business and I'm a man of my word...

I really hope so... Up to now, there has been a lot of noise without any results. Even the article in the newspaper turned out to be a resounding propaganda success and endorsement for SP/SG. So much for all your contacts with the tabloids in the UK!!!!:down::sad2::mad::mad2::wallbash:

I really hope so... Up to now, there has been a lot of noise without any results. Even the article in the newspaper turned out to be a resounding propaganda success and endorsement for SP/SG. So much for all your contacts with the tabloids in the UK!!!!:down::sad2::mad::mad2::wallbash:

I wouldn't place too much faith in the "watch this space....", "I'm a man of my word....", "I've got friends in high places....", "Doomsday is coming....." nut jobs.

They tend to wield enormous influence and power in Internet chat rooms and their own minds, and are ignored fairly well everywhere else. :nuts::ohno::nuts::ohno:

Have to dash now but I hear www.selectdubaibeware.com is due for a revamp shortly, to celebrate 2012!
Happy New Year everyone!

I would suggest it needs to be vamped before it can be revamped. It's very very lame. Most of the links read "coming soon....". Sure. :lol::lol:

What happened to all the people who entered legal action, and those who promised media campaigns etc? such a long time has passed now. What happened to "The Action Group" ?

Don't remind me of "the Irish Couple", so many people believed that nonsense was relevant to The Torch.

I have yet to see a single genuine posting confirming that legal action has actually worked (for anyone except the lawyers who must be laughing all the way to the bank as they win no matter what).

I have seen nothing in the newspapers to reflect adequately on these despicable companies.

Legal action led nowhere. The court system of Dubai is as inefficient as everything else in the Emirate - plus it works on a system of patronage which means an outsider from Europe doesn't stand a chance.

On the PR front, we got a nice piece in the Sunday Express, which would have been a lot bigger had Amy Winehouse not chosen that weekend to turn up her toes.

More PR will be coming if a certain TV show gets commissioned for a further series. More news as I have it...

I would suggest it needs to be vamped before it can be revamped. It's very very lame. Most of the links read "coming soon....". Sure. :lol::lol:

Hello Barry
You could help by sending articles to the website publishers, contact details are provided on the website. The publishers need to be careful of defamation so make sure anything you provide takes this into account.

I noticed that you seem quite critical and dismissive of the website, which has been around some time now (over 6 months?), all I can do is suggest that you search the first few hundred entries in google for Select, and you may well find that the -only- website providing negative publicity is that one, however I did not check too carefully. Depending what keywords you use, that website can appear very high on the list of results.

You could also create your own website.

Legal action led nowhere. The court system of Dubai is as inefficient as everything else in the Emirate - plus it works on a system of patronage which means an outsider from Europe doesn't stand a chance.

On the PR front, we got a nice piece in the Sunday Express, which would have been a lot bigger had Amy Winehouse not chosen that weekend to turn up her toes.

More PR will be coming if a certain TV show gets commissioned for a further series. More news as I have it...

Agreed that the court system in the Emirate leaves something to be desired. However, the article in the Sunday Express was nothing less than a resounding propaganda success and endorsement for SP/SG. Even if Homes from Hell do a article on SP/SG, I will not be too surprised that it will describe the built apartments as luxurious with 5 star fixtures and homes from heaven!! Have absolutely NO more faith in anything anymore. :ohno:

Hello Barry
You could help by sending articles to the website publishers, contact details are provided on the website. The publishers need to be careful of defamation so make sure anything you provide takes this into account.

I noticed that you seem quite critical and dismissive of the website, which has been around some time now (over 6 months?), all I can do is suggest that you search the first few hundred entries in google for Select, and you may well find that the -only- website providing negative publicity is that one, however I did not check too carefully. Depending what keywords you use, that website can appear very high on the list of results.

You could also create your own website.

I'm not sufficiently aggrieved with Select to participate in a campaign against them (NB this proves I work for them or that I am stupid if you believe the swivel-eyed mouth foamers who populate the lunatic fringe of this thread).

They're an annoying organisation no doubt and having an investment that washes its face but hasn't really appreciated in value over 6 years is disappointing. But I wouldn't throw my toys out of the cot about it. :):wink2:m)):D

Watch this space :). It's taking longer than I'd hoped but I promised to wreck Aslam's business and I'm a man of my word...

A year ago , you and I had a few chats. I told you that I and others had complained to both Trading Standards and the S. F. O. without success. I told you that I and others had contacted Dubai Civil Defence about the on-going problems with the fire alarm at the Point [ still on-going ] without even getting a reply.
I told you that I and at least one other would talk to newspaper editors. You did put me in touch with one, it went no where. I did manage to talk to two other editors but again without result.
I have served on the O.A. , we complained to RERA [ waste of time ], I took legal advice [ expensive waste of time ]
You name it , I have tried it.
If you can do anything to hurt Select then I am your man.
If you can't, then please shut up.

A year ago , you and I had a few chats. I told you that I and others had complained to both Trading Standards and the S. F. O. without success. I told you that I and others had contacted Dubai Civil Defence about the on-going problems with the fire alarm at the Point [ still on-going ] without even getting a reply.
I told you that I and at least one other would talk to newspaper editors. You did put me in touch with one, it went no where. I did manage to talk to two other editors but again without result.
I have served on the O.A. , we complained to RERA [ waste of time ], I took legal advice [ expensive waste of time ]
You name it , I have tried it.
If you can do anything to hurt Select then I am your man.
If you can't, then please shut up.

I (actually, we) had a pretty good shot at it with Kevin Brass from The National but a number of people who had previously been keen to go into print stepped back into the shadows when asked to go through with it, so nothing came of it. I'm not alleging you did this, just making a general observation about the fact that when we get a bite, we all need to move, and quickly.

There's a UK TV programme that could be very helpful to us but we are waiting to hear if it is re-commissioned.

Can I do anything to hurt Select right now, today? No. Will I be able to in the future? Who knows - fingers crossed!

I (actually, we) had a pretty good shot at it with Kevin Brass from The National but a number of people who had previously been keen to go into print stepped back into the shadows when asked to go through with it, so nothing came of it. I'm not alleging you did this, just making a general observation about the fact that when we get a bite, we all need to move, and quickly.

There's a UK TV programme that could be very helpful to us but we are waiting to hear if it is re-commissioned.

Can I do anything to hurt Select right now, today? No. Will I be able to in the future? Who knows - fingers crossed!

I have only one word for your statement that a number of people who had previously been keen to go through with it, stepped back into the shadows when asked to go through with it '' BULL**IT''.:bash:

has anyone got a property in the torch that they want to rent out or sell .

IAN ,

ian.liborwich@smithandken.com

Another Select employee. Gotcha! :nuts::nuts:

Lets hope 2012 is the year that justice is done for SG and SP.

Very unlikely my friend, very unlikely. The likelihood has degenerated from "watch this space....." and "mark my words"....." to "fingers crossed.....". Please. :ohno::nuts::lol::cheers:

I wouldn't place too much faith in the "watch this space....", "I'm a man of my word....", "I've got friends in high places....", "Doomsday is coming....." nut jobs.

They tend to wield enormous influence and power in Internet chat rooms and their own minds, and are ignored fairly well everywhere else. :nuts::ohno::nuts::ohno:

OK So I think everyone agrees, the only real concentrated 'exposure' of 'Select' is www.selectdubaibeware.com. However it needs to get much stronger. Newspaper articles have been a waste of time, as Aslam has turned the few of those around in his favour.

Please contact the publishers with your (well-founded) information / articles, the contact details for the publishers are on that website.

It is the -only- hope you have of publicising, at the moment. It will show up in google in no time.

...

http://www.constructionweekonline.com/article-15178-exclusive-owner-wins-case-against-emaar-company/



Interesting similarity

.,.

Dubai Steve - why are you postine people name and addresses online?

You are a nasty piece of work!

Scoob said to contact the publishers of the website but did not give the contact address in the contact us link of the website. The name and address were already online, just google it.
I am happy to remove my post if scoob complains.

Is it??? Just been on that website, nothing that I see indicates the owners, just the contact emails! Is Select now investigating and making allegations against those whom are unhappy with their loss of investment. Why can't SP/SG respond to correspondants and enter diologue? Surely this is a indication of a crook!

FYI Dubai Select and Select Properties - you cheated us out of out life savings! I find it unbeliebable that the Police and SFO are unable to shut you guys down! A matter that I have already taken up with my MP and a matter that I will push the authorities more so as to deal with you guys.

Dubau Steve please tell your boss, that I will not stop until my life savings have been returned! I will be going again to the police this week and I am sure others will be to! We were scammed!

Is it???

Yes just google selectdubaibeware and you will find a link which shows the publisher of the site.

Yes just google selectdubaibeware and you will find a link which shows the publisher of the site.

or 'view source' (right click) on the website, and you will see the same contact details in the source code.

nonetheless, Scooby, you should remove your details and moderators should remove the part of this thread discussing this. seems like the right thing to do...

Is it??? Just been on that website, nothing that I see indicates the owners, just the contact emails! Is Select now investigating and making allegations against those whom are unhappy with their loss of investment. Why can't SP/SG respond to correspondants and enter diologue? Surely this is a indication of a crook!

FYI Dubai Select and Select Properties - you cheated us out of out life savings! I find it unbeliebable that the Police and SFO are unable to shut you guys down! A matter that I have already taken up with my MP and a matter that I will push the authorities more so as to deal with you guys.

Dubau Steve please tell your boss, that I will not stop until my life savings have been returned! I will be going again to the police this week and I am sure others will be to! We were scammed!

I totally agree with you. SP/SG must be brought to justice and made to pay for stealing our life savings.:bash:

OK So I think everyone agrees, the only real concentrated 'exposure' of 'Select' is www.selectdubaibeware.com. However it needs to get much stronger. Newspaper articles have been a waste of time, as Aslam has turned the few of those around in his favour.

Please contact the publishers with your (well-founded) information / articles, the contact details for the publishers are on that website.

It is the -only- hope you have of publicising, at the moment. It will show up in google in no time.

If whoever's put up the Select Dubai Beware website wants any help with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) let me know - free of course - happy to spend time letting the world know how fuc*ing dodgy Rahail Aslam,Paul Brady and Colin Wright really are.

can anyone remember the sq footage of the balcony on a Type 2 two bedroom apartment?

Stepped back into the shadows!,, Oh no they didn't as you well know Mister Mark

I have only one word for your statement that a number of people who had previously been keen to go through with it, stepped back into the shadows when asked to go through with it '' BULL**IT''.:bash:
Absolutely spot on Torchowner. MisterMark has 'missedthemark' yet again.

can anyone remember the sq footage of the balcony on a Type 2 two bedroom apartment?

Yes I can. :)

- edit

Went in to the torch last year i noticed quite a lot of vibration form the lifts in the lift / lobby area is this normal ?
:)

Went in to the torch last year i noticed quite a lot of vibration form the lifts in the lift / lobby area is this normal ?
:)

DCE use the normal lifts to cart all the kit up and down during the build phase - this overloads the cables which will probably show signs of cracking shortly after handover - this happened at the Point.

The owners have to pay for the replacement lift cables out of their maintenance funds when in truth the building contractors knackered them.

The external cranes should of been used for moving heavy loads rather than internal lifts.

Guys are we not going abit extreme here :) Most of the developments in marina are very similar quality. About 90% of the labour workforce on most developments is from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I have a Torch unit and touch wood so far no problems from the tennants. I have been having regular discussions with Exclusive and another agent who have been dealing with the Torch and they say the development is fine and to a normal standard just like most units in the marina.

Not totally true. The Torch compares to the Point and Bay Central [ no surprise there ] and to Marina Wharf amongst others. But please do not try to suggest the quality of the Torch is the same as Marina Promenade, Marina Quays, Silverene or any of the other Cayan developments.

Guys are we not going abit extreme here :) Most of the developments in marina are very similar quality. About 90% of the labour workforce on most developments is from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I have a Torch unit and touch wood so far no problems from the tennants. I have been having regular discussions with Exclusive and another agent who have been dealing with the Torch and they say the development is fine and to a normal standard just like most units in the marina.

I think most people who bought in Select Developments are obviously from the UK and probably bought even without any research etc or visiting Dubai and just bought cos of all the hype.


They are of a similar standard to Marina Diamonds and the other run of the mill developments which sold for around 6-700 AED/ft. They are not to the same standard as Cayan, Trident or Emaar and sold for a lot more than these standard of development. Most people would not be griping if they got what they paid for.

I think the average original price for the torch was around 843 AED/ft

eg. Seaview 2 bed price was 1,079,500 and 1280 sq ft.

There was also a 2.5% discount for early buyers on that price.

I think the facilities in the Torch are very good compared to many developments. One of the reasons that it is currently very popular with tenants.

How much was the original Silverene price (and when will the fish pond and gym be ready to use)?

can anyone remember the sq footage of the balcony on a Type 2 two bedroom apartment?

If type 2 is the upper half type layout then the balcony on plan was around 80sq ft.

DCE use the normal lifts to cart all the kit up and down during the build phase - this overloads the cables which will probably show signs of cracking shortly after handover - this happened at the Point.

The owners have to pay for the replacement lift cables out of their maintenance funds when in truth the building contractors knackered them.

The external cranes should of been used for moving heavy loads rather than internal lifts.

Thank you for your reply :cheers:

Absolutely spot on Torchowner. MisterMark has 'missedthemark' yet again.

I totally agree with the night......we need decent people like Lily aka micmonro1 to come back. She was the one that showed me the light and informed us all.:rock::rock::rock:

I think the average original price for the torch was around 843 AED/ft

eg. Seaview 2 bed price was 1,079,500 and 1280 sq ft.

There was also a 2.5% discount for early buyers on that price.

I think the facilities in the Torch are very good compared to many developments. One of the reasons that it is currently very popular with tenants.

How much was the original Silverene price (and when will the fish pond and gym be ready to use)?

Silverene was sold near the peak of the market from 900AED/ft to over 1000AED/ft. It would be more appropriate to compare Silverene to Bay Central which was sold roughly at the same time, in fact I think BC was launched about 6 months before Silverene. BC was sold at 1200+AED/ft and is no where near the standard or quality of Silverene. The building shell of Silverene is far superior to BC and Botanica and would have cost a lot more to build than both of these higher priced developments.

So the Cayan development that was sold at the same time as The Torch would be The Jewels. It sold for 650-800AED/ft and again is built to a much better standard than The Torch. Jewels apartments have marble floors, home automation and very good curtain walling/glazing system. Anyone who bought off plan in TJ or probably all Cayan developments, will not have experienced negative equity problems associated with the build not living up to the sales price. I would place a guess that all Emaar, Trident and Cayan off plan sales would have held their price reasonably well through the market crash compared to Select's over priced offerings. Torch isn't the worst to be fair, The Point was a built quality disaster and I predict that BC will go the same way. BC is a complete farce compared to what they sold. Have you seen the BC fish pond?

Torch isn't the worst to be fair.

Resale (sold) prices for the Torch are about the same as the original prices currently, not really any negative equity but a lot of money wasted over the last 6 years due to the 3.5 year delay if you bought off-plan (but there is the same delay situation in Princess and Infinity). Glad at least it was handed over and the price is at least the same as the original price even though we went through the biggest property price crash ever seen.

Will be interesting to see if BC turns out to be a disaster like the Point was partly due to the huge rush DCE are doing to finish it.

I totally agree with the night......we need decent people like Lily aka micmonro1 to come back. She was the one that showed me the light and informed us all.:rock::rock::rock:

Really? You will recall that when it all kicked off I offered to fund, without limitation, a legal action in Dubai by anyone who had a breach of contract case against Torch Select Limited and had lined up a lawyer who could prove (including putting me in touch with them) that they had successfully collected payment (and not just won a ruling) against a Dubai developer under similar circumstances.

I can confirm that, despite Lily's and her partner's bold assertions that the legal route was worth pursuing, I was never asked to provide any money...

Really? You will recall that when it all kicked off I offered to fund, without limitation, a legal action in Dubai by anyone who had a breach of contract case against Torch Select Limited and had lined up a lawyer who could prove (including putting me in touch with them) that they had successfully collected payment (and not just won a ruling) against a Dubai developer under similar circumstances.

I can confirm that, despite Lily's and her partner's bold assertions that the legal route was worth pursuing, I was never asked to provide any money...

Mark

I can't find the post now but I think there is one by PROBONO that stated he/she has won settlement and collected the cash from SELECT GROUP --
I am sure someone can find though ??

Mark

I can't find the post now but I think there is one by PROBONO that stated he/she has won settlement and collected the cash from SELECT GROUP --
I am sure someone can find though ??

probono :lol:

MrMark is right here.

I totally agree with the night......we need decent people like Lily aka micmonro1 to come back. She was the one that showed me the light and informed us all.:rock::rock::rock:


I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.
:cheers:

I totally agree with the night......we need decent people like Lily aka micmonro1 to come back. She was the one that showed me the light and informed us all.:rock::rock::rock:

I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.
:cheers:

For all you movie buffs and poor souls who are now so dejected you want to give up,,, remember "Erin Brokovich"! Remember "The wizard of Oz". This is the reality. SG are preying on your fear and ignorance using smoke and mirrors. They have become extremely efficient and plausible on these forums. Do not be fooled or give in. They are not as powerful as they would have you believe. They are good at what they do! ( an ambiguous statement indeed),,, take it how you like! They spend more time monitoring these forums than they do consulting their own lawyers. It's a powerful medium and they have learned to exploit it more than you will ever know.

probono :lol:

MrMark is right here.

Well i've taken the plunge already --win or lose --lets see what happens -- Im afrraid it';s everyman/woman for himself generally in life and even more so in Dubai -good luck with what your doing also

Really? You will recall that when it all kicked off I offered to fund, without limitation, a legal action in Dubai by anyone who had a breach of contract case against Torch Select Limited and had lined up a lawyer who could prove (including putting me in touch with them) that they had successfully collected payment (and not just won a ruling) against a Dubai developer under similar circumstances.

I can confirm that, despite Lily's and her partner's bold assertions that the legal route was worth pursuing, I was never asked to provide any money...
Wonder why?

Resale (sold) prices for the Torch are about the same as the original prices currently, not really any negative equity but a lot of money wasted over the last 6 years due to the 3.5 year delay if you bought off-plan (but there is the same delay situation in Princess and Infinity). Glad at least it was handed over and the price is at least the same as the original price even though we went through the biggest property price crash ever seen.

Will be interesting to see if BC turns out to be a disaster like the Point was partly due to the huge rush DCE are doing to finish it.

As usual Select Steve you are talking bull**it! I know of several Owners in The Torch who would like to sell and get out of the tower. One Owner got so fed up that he sold his two beds for AED 900,000.00. Just cut his losses and ran for his life. He was helped to some extent by the weak exchange rate between AED and GBP.

I have been very busy finding out some facts and have just returned from Dubai. The trip was an eye opener and believe me everyone I found out some interesting facts which I will share with those who have not yet fallen to SG’s lies and well orchestrated PR games.

More to come from me and I will not hold back for those who are looking for the truth.
:cheers:

Usual bollocks-watch this space.....if you knew what I knew...the end is nigh.....their time has come......

What a load of old waffle from the usual lame suspects. Isn't it time one of the credulous fools that buy this cobblers said put up or shut up. I equate this mob of bullsh**ters with Select themselves. :lol::lol::lol::nuts:

Is it??? Just been on that website, nothing that I see indicates the owners, just the contact emails! Is Select now investigating and making allegations against those whom are unhappy with their loss of investment. Why can't SP/SG respond to correspondants and enter diologue? Surely this is a indication of a crook!

FYI Dubai Select and Select Properties - you cheated us out of out life savings! I find it unbeliebable that the Police and SFO are unable to shut you guys down! A matter that I have already taken up with my MP and a matter that I will push the authorities more so as to deal with you guys.

Dubau Steve please tell your boss, that I will not stop until my life savings have been returned! I will be going again to the police this week and I am sure others will be to! We were scammed!

How did you get on with the police? :lol::nuts:

Is it??? Just been on that website, nothing that I see indicates the owners, just the contact emails! Is Select now investigating and making allegations against those whom are unhappy with their loss of investment. Why can't SP/SG respond to correspondants and enter diologue? Surely this is a indication of a crook!

FYI Dubai Select and Select Properties - you cheated us out of out life savings! I find it unbeliebable that the Police and SFO are unable to shut you guys down! A matter that I have already taken up with my MP and a matter that I will push the authorities more so as to deal with you guys.

Dubau Steve please tell your boss, that I will not stop until my life savings have been returned! I will be going again to the police this week and I am sure others will be to! We were scammed!

If you put your life savings into Dubai property you really are a caveman. Maybe you could invest in Kabul property with what's left over. :lol::nuts::lol::nuts:

For all you movie buffs and poor souls who are now so dejected you want to give up,,, remember "Erin Brokovich"! Remember "The wizard of Oz". This is the reality. SG are preying on your fear and ignorance using smoke and mirrors. They have become extremely:lol::lol: efficient and plausible on these forums. Do not be fooled or give in. They are not as powerful as they would have you believe. They are good at what they do! ( an ambiguous statement indeed),,, take it how you like! They spend more time monitoring these forums than they do consulting their own lawyers. It's a powerful medium and they have learned to exploit it more than you will ever know.

If you think you're getting money back from SG I would recommend Monty Python's Holy Grail instead. The scene with the deluded knight getting all his limbs lopped off but still thinking he's winning.....watch it and weep.:lol::banana::cheers::lol:

If you think you're getting money back from SG I would recommend Monty Python's Holy Grail instead. The scene with the deluded knight getting all his limbs lopped off but still thinking he's winning.....watch it and weep.:lol::banana::cheers::lol:
You really are a nasty bunch aren't you! Bonafide cowards

Too right! As for the Kabul statement - unlike you Barry, I have been the country and proud! Have you EVER done anything for anyone at risk to yourself?

As for the many of us putting our savings into Dubai property! The con men at SP in Cheshire convince many decent average salary people to invest in the Torch.

Barry, were you part of that con team that used lies and misinformation to sell us the Torch? Yes, i remember the facts and figures they gave us back in 2006 and how they were the developer. Opps I forget now, SP are not the developers now! It was all a lie by the Cheshire con men.

As for the many of us putting our savings into Dubai property! The con men at SP in Cheshire convince many decent average salary people to invest in the Torch.

Barry, were you part of that con team that used lies and misinformation to sell us the Torch? Yes, i remember the facts and figures they gave us back in 2006 and how they were the developer. Opps I forget now, SP are not the developers now! It was all a lie by the Cheshire con men.

Don't despair Captain Caveman and don't take any notice of those who muck you.....All in got time when SG and SP and their paid crones get their punishments. Trust me on this. They will be picked off one by one.

May I remind those who work for SG and are deceiving investors by giving out wrong information that their act of deception is criminal offence under UK laws and carries prison sentences.

Dubai has laws and people's investments are protected by these courts and SG and their crones don't want people to fight the fight because it will lose a lot of money if many cases have been lodged in court and won.

As I said before, I have just came back from Dubai and I will update you all in the coming days.
:cheers:

Don't despair Captain Caveman and don't take any notice of those who muck you.....All in got time when SG and SP and their paid crones get their punishments. Trust me on this. They will be picked off one by one.

May I remind those who work for SG and are deceiving investors by giving out wrong information that their act of deception is criminal offence under UK laws and carries prison sentences.

Dubai has laws and people's investments are protected by these courts and SG and their crones don't want people to fight the fight because it will lose a lot of money if many cases have been lodged in court and won.

As I said before, I have just came back from Dubai and I will update you all in the coming days.
:cheers:

It may perhaps be a criminal offence under UK laws to deceive investors by giving out wrong information but it is of little or no use as our complaints to the SFO were returned without any action being taken and with the advice to contact the Dubai legal system!!! :ohno::bash:

If type 2 is the upper half type layout then the balcony on plan was around 80sq ft.

many thanks, Jeffers. yes, i meant a type B

Yes I can. :)

the usual useless 'contribution', Morris...

Too right! As for the Kabul statement - unlike you Barry, I have been the country and proud! Have you EVER done anything for anyone at risk to yourself?

So did you invest in property while you were out there? And you forgot to let me know how you got on with the police. I need to know when to start packing my bags for prison:nuts::lol::nuts::lol:

Don't despair Captain Caveman and don't take any notice of those who muck you.....All in got time when SG and SP and their paid crones get their punishments. Trust me on this. They will be picked off one by one.

May I remind those who work for SG and are deceiving investors by giving out wrong information that their act of deception is criminal offence under UK laws and carries prison sentences.

Dubai has laws and people's investments are protected by these courts and SG and their crones don't want people to fight the fight because it will lose a lot of money if many cases have been lodged in court and won.

As I said before, I have just came back from Dubai and I will update you all in the coming days.
:cheers:

Hey micmoron, really looking forward to the big news. Will you visit all of us in the big house once you've put us there with your genius plan?:nuts::nuts:

Hey micmoron, really looking forward to the big news. Will you visit all of us in the big house once you've put us there with your genius plan?:nuts::nuts:

Hey Barry Mc Flurry, Mc Select, Mc Donalds.

I have 2 questions for you.

1, Who the fuck are you ? and
2, Why are you on this forum?

You have nothing interesting or important to say. So why don't you do us all a favour and stay off the forum.:yawn:

Don't despair Captain Caveman and don't take any notice of those who muck you.....All in got time when SG and SP and their paid crones get their punishments. Trust me on this. They will be picked off one by one.

May I remind those who work for SG and are deceiving investors by giving out wrong information that their act of deception is criminal offence under UK laws and carries prison sentences.

Dubai has laws and people's investments are protected by these courts and SG and their crones don't want people to fight the fight because it will lose a lot of money if many cases have been lodged in court and won.

As I said before, I have just came back from Dubai and I will update you all in the coming days.
:cheers:

I've kept off this forum for a while becuase when you dont know what and who you can trust you can only rely on facts.

So let me state something to all those "genuine" investors that have been or are in the process of being wrongfully persuaded and lied to by SG and there forum cronies.that I can vouch for everything micmonro says.

I have also Just gotten back from Dubai and had my eyes opend by the simplicity of the legal process and of laws in Dubai.

They do have laws and they do protect the investor.

Do not get bogged down with the faulse pretext spun on this forum by SG and there covert cowadly worker bees that you have no legal rights in Dubai or that the legal route is a waste of time. This is simply just not true.

SG's customer sales technique is like growing mushrooms. They keep you in the dark and feed you shit. Beleive me, its all part of a desperate attempt for the truth to be kept a secret!

Trust in micmonro and the veil of lies and deceit will be lifted.

The good shall allways triumph!

Hey Barry Mc Flurry, Mc Select, Mc Donalds.

I have 2 questions for you.

1, Who the fuck are you ? and
2, Why are you on this forum?

You have nothing interesting or important to say. So why don't you do us all a favour and stay off the forum.:yawn:
Barry McBarry, Dubai Steve, Scoobudubai and a host of others are SG, Don't give them the satisfaction of an acknowledgement. Ignore it. Your acnowledgement is what gives them their strength. Please try and understand what you are dealing with here! Your frustration and anger is where they derive gratification.

Message for Barry McBarry:

I have been onto your profile page and had read your postings that you had made over the years. Almost every posting you had posted is an insult directed at someone! Yes you really are a gutless armchair warrior! A total heartless coward, nothing you had contributed to this forum is of any value afterall surely a property forum shoul be about the owners/investors discussing the property and and issues associated with the said property. But, you - yes YOU contribute only insults and vile insults. A hallmark of a true coward and a sickening individual!

Hey micmoron, really looking forward to the big news. Will you visit all of us in the big house once you've put us there with your genius plan?:nuts::nuts:

Barry McBarry. How old are you?

Message for Barry McBarry:

I have been onto your profile page and had read your postings that you had made over the years. Almost every posting you had posted is an insult directed at someone! Yes you really are a gutless armchair warrior! A total heartless coward, nothing you had contributed to this forum is of any value afterall surely a property forum shoul be about the owners/investors discussing the property and and issues associated with the said property. But, you - yes YOU contribute only insults and vile insults. A hallmark of a true coward and a sickening individual!

Hey Captain Caveman, what's with all the insults?:lol::lol:

As usual Select Steve you are talking bull**it

We sold 2 BR 06 unit (furnished) for 1.26 million 2 weeks ago.

:)

^^Must have been lovely furniture :lol:

:jk:

^^Must have been lovely furniture :lol:

:jk:

Marina facing 2 beds 05 and 06 are selling for 1,150,000 AED minimum without furniture.

^^Must have been lovely furniture :lol:

:jk:

Select furniture pack:)

Hey Barry Mc Flurry, Mc Select, Mc Donalds.

I have 2 questions for you.

1, Who the fuck are you ? and
2, Why are you on this forum?

You have nothing interesting or important to say. So why don't you do us all a favour and stay off the forum.:yawn:

1. Barry Mcbarry
2. To wind up numpties

:nuts::cheers:

Oohh, Numpties! You must be from Scotland, this is like a game of whose who!

We are pleased to inform you that the mail boxes in The Torch have been installed. Owners or their tenants have the option of using the unique postal address that has been set up for The Torch from where the post will be collected by the building management and delivered to the individual mail boxes.

Postal Address for The Torch: P.O. Box 74249
Dubai
United Arab Emirates

Where a unit Owner will not collect the key in person or assigns the use of the mail box to the tenant, he/she must provide the representative or tenant (as is applicable) with a signed authori-zation letter for the collection of the keys. Keys will not be handed over to any representative or tenant without the authorization letter from the Unit Owner.


^^ From Kingfield Management Services

not true! depends on the floor, i know of one 2bed 06 unit mid floors which was sold for less than 1m in the last two months.Marina facing 2 beds 05 and 06 are selling for 1,150,000 AED minimum without furniture.

not true! depends on the floor, i know of one 2bed 06 unit mid floors which was sold for less than 1m in the last two months.

Won't find anything at that price now. The person that sold below 1mil must have been a real distressed sellor.

Won't find anything at that price now. The person that sold below 1mil must have been a real distressed sellor.

Not true it was my unit that i sold on 4806, new floor unit 5606, i was not distressed. sold for 950,000 u try selling for 1.15 or higher its impossible!!! i marketed with several agencies for 1.1, u cant get it!!!

i wanted out of an investment which is not making money, no hope for dubai prop for at least another 3 years, rents will drop further no doubt and of course service charges are crazy.

i invested my money in property in my home town, earning 9% after expenses student lets in brighton! much happier!!!

Not true it was my unit that i sold on 4806, new floor unit 5606, i was not distressed. sold for 950,000 u try selling for 1.15 or higher its impossible!!! i marketed with several agencies for 1.1, u cant get it!!!

i wanted out of an investment which is not making money, no hope for dubai prop for at least another 3 years, rents will drop further no doubt and of course service charges are crazy.

i invested my money in property in my home town, earning 9% after expenses student lets in brighton! much happier!!!

:nuts:

That a very bad price for 06 unit , your buyer was very lucky, I had many buyers for 1.15- 1.2 million and I think I still can get that money for it...

Buyers still there for the 05 and 06 higher floor units, lower floor with open kitchen not as popular..

:nuts:

That a very bad price for 06 unit , your buyer was very lucky, I had many buyers for 1.15- 1.2 million and I think I still can get that money for it...

Buyers still there for the 05 and 06 higher floor units, lower floor with open kitchen not as popular..

i very much doubt it! its easy to talk

i very much doubt it! its easy to talk

But true, I am talking about only the 05 and 06 2 Br's units with half close kitchen ,I doubt that you can get it less the 1.15 million now.

Just have a look the Dubai Marina market today , what kind of 2 BR's you can get for 1.2 million and less ???

Also rent prices gone up for these units, the mimimum is 100K now but if you are lucky you can get even more.

01, 02, 03,04 , 07 and 08 units you can get around 1.1 million or even less ..

1 BR similar, demand for only 07 and 08 units with full marina view , anything else difficult and price much less..

But true, I am talking about only the 05 and 06 2 Br's units with half close kitchen ,I doubt that you can get it less the 1.15 million now.

Just have a look the Dubai Marina market today , what kind of 2 BR's you can get for 1.2 million and less ???

Also rent prices gone up for these units, the mimimum is 100K now but if you are lucky you can get even more.

01, 02, 03,04 , 07 and 08 units you can get around 1.1 million or even less ..

1 BR similar, demand for only 07 and 08 units with full marina view , anything else difficult and price much less..
I have been offered 1.25 million for my 6606 apt, this was 3 weeks ago but not in a position to sell right now

i very much doubt it! its easy to talk

I know who's judgement I'd trust on this (or any) issue dufus, and it wouldn't be yours.

Imre has a track record of integrity, sounds like you have a track record of being ripped off and then throwing your toys out of your cot when you find out.:lol::lol:

Don't despair Captain Caveman and don't take any notice of those who muck you.....All in got time when SG and SP and their paid crones get their punishments. Trust me on this. They will be picked off one by one.

May I remind those who work for SG and are deceiving investors by giving out wrong information that their act of deception is criminal offence under UK laws and carries prison sentences.

Dubai has laws and people's investments are protected by these courts and SG and their crones don't want people to fight the fight because it will lose a lot of money if many cases have been lodged in court and won.

As I said before, I have just came back from Dubai and I will update you all in the coming days.
:cheers:

So micmoron, when you said you would update us all "in the coming days" did you mean the coming weeks or the coming months, or was this just another supersize serving of your famous waffle and hot air? :nuts::nuts:

So micmoron, when you said you would update us all "in the coming days" did you mean the coming weeks or the coming months, or was this just another supersize serving of your famous waffle and hot air? :nuts::nuts:

Barry McBarry,, You do seem extremely eager to hear what micmonro has to say,, so much so you can't wait. Your desperate infantile posts are far from provocative. Incidentally, you never did tell us all how old you are. Are we corresponding with a child amusing himself from his bedroom? What are you after? If it turns out you are not just some little lad stirring things up for his own amusement then,,,, who knows?
SG are surely scraping the barrel if you're the best they can come up with.

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by MANUTD View Post
Yes i'm in here unfortunately - I'm told quite a few are in Arbitration in THE TORCH -- but i dont know of any "victories" as such




Yes, MANUTD,,,, you are correct,,,, Arbitration has been successful for many investors.

Why would SG want "victories" splashed all over these forums?

Wonder what agreement they reached?

All the regular disgruntled contributors to these forums who spent so much time threatening legal action have disappeared into thin air.
Do you think they 'gave up' ,,,,, or did SG just have them all shot? Investor activity on these forums is now a fraction of what it was a year ago.
The only regular contributors left are 'SG', 'Imre',, people who signed addendums and others who seem to be overly concerned about the views from their balcony's.

So many of those unhappy people who 'posted' with such conviction ARE gone. How come?

They have reached an amicable resolution and signed gagging clause. Remember 'Mistermark'. He DID tell us a long time ago
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The night está en línea ahora Report Post Edit/Delete Message

can anyone give me some info please, i am currently a joint owner in the Torch and was wondering about buying out my partner, what costs would i incur for changing from a joint owner to a sole owner, thanks for your help

can anyone give me some info please, i am currently a joint owner in the Torch and was wondering about buying out my partner, what costs would i incur for changing from a joint owner to a sole owner, thanks for your help

If you're married there is a lower transfer fee - I think 0.5% if not I think it's 2%!

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by MANUTD View Post
Yes i'm in here unfortunately - I'm told quite a few are in Arbitration in THE TORCH -- but i dont know of any "victories" as such




Yes, MANUTD,,,, you are correct,,,, Arbitration has been successful for many investors.

Why would SG want "victories" splashed all over these forums?

Wonder what agreement they reached?

All the regular disgruntled contributors to these forums who spent so much time threatening legal action have disappeared into thin air.
Do you think they 'gave up' ,,,,, or did SG just have them all shot? Investor activity on these forums is now a fraction of what it was a year ago.
The only regular contributors left are 'SG', 'Imre',, people who signed addendums and others who seem to be overly concerned about the views from their balcony's.

So many of those unhappy people who 'posted' with such conviction ARE gone. How come?

They have reached an amicable resolution and signed gagging clause. Remember 'Mistermark'. He DID tell us a long time ago
The night está en línea ahora Report Post Edit/Delete Message
The night está en línea ahora Report Post Edit/Delete Message

Yes, it's true - Select Group have form for settling privately with disgruntled owners. Some people have been able to get back 90% of their investment from Select Group - basically the more of a menace you are the more likely they'll buy you out. You need to really make a nuisance of yourself. Forget legal action - they know that won't work in Dubai. But media interest for Select Group is like sunlight to Vampires! (I quite like that analogy as they are bunch of ugly bloodsuckers) You gotta really go to town on it though. Homes from Hell the full nine yards. Do what you threaten.

Rumour has it the old Ruskies have managed to get 100% refunds from various developers by sending certain 'persuasive gentlemen' direct to the developers offices. I have no idea whether Select Group have caved into this type of pressure but I wouldn't be at all surprised! If you know a "Dragon" (Layer Cake character) he might be worth his weight in gold!

Folks,

People at the Point have done the work and looked at their chiller pipes in detail.
DCE did lag the chiller pipes but badly. It appears the don't know how to make up an insulated elbow joint or how to insulate a valve properly. The pictures below show condensation dripping from the valves alongside a good dose of surface level corrosion.

This creates a multitude of problems in your unit which are in no particular order:-

1) The condensation drips onto the suspended ceiling creating mould and bacterial spore growth. Your FCU (Fan coil units) draw their air from the ceiling voids so it's not very healthy as you're drawing air full of mould spores through your air con - anyone for a spot of legionella?

2) The mould works it's way through the plasterboard and discolours your ceilings in your unit - not very attractive.

3) The condensation combined with high humidity levels in the summer months (when the ac is off) leads to corrosion of all your electrical kit in the ceiling void - eg fan coil motors fail prematurely, electrical circuits corrode where there are any exposed terminals (DCE use PVC terminal blocks for the lighting connections which they don't tape up)... and hey presto - your fire alarm circuitry...ringing any bells yet :)

4) The biggy - Once the surface level corrosion starts to take hold on your chiller pipes it's only a matter of time before the high pressure chilled water feed finds it way out of the weakest point. An owner in the Point had a ruptured chilled water pipe and you wouldn't believe how much water comes out of these things. His apartment was over 6 inches deep in water within minutes. If the level of corrossion is uniform throughout the building you'll find the chiller pipes will start to fail at the same time which will create an absolute nightmare for everyone involved. In the Point it's impossible to isolate individual units from the chilled water supply - it has to be done on a floor by floor basis - the Torch might be different if you're lucky but the corrosion and improper lagging issues are almost certainly replicated as you've got the same team who built the Point...

http://i42.tinypic.com/ndk2a9.jpg
Corroded drain valve with condensation dripping off it

http://i43.tinypic.com/219tn4y.jpg
Wet lagging on elbow near gate valve - you can see the corrosion on the gate valve lever which has travelled up from inside the lagging

http://i42.tinypic.com/29za5va.jpg
Mould spore growth on plasterboard in ceiling void - created from dripping chiller pipes. The mould had discoloured the other side of the plasterboard in the unit

http://i41.tinypic.com/2d1qr1f.jpg
The main chiller water inlet going into the FCU (Fan Coil Unit) - note corrosion and exposed matalwork (this was how it was found)

If it was built by DCE and mismanaged by Select Group - you got the same problems coming your way folks! But at least you know what's coming your way. We found out the hard way!

Relagging costs per unit are about 12,000 AED for a 3 bed. Only one owner has paid for it so far. You investment might have cost you a bit more than you thought unless you do it yourself.

Good info regarding the pipes there mate, thanks

Good info regarding the pipes there mate, thanks

No worries, this is an example of what happens to electrical fittings when lagging isn't done correctly.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2djrzuw.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/wve59i.jpg - note heavy corrosion - only 2 years after handover....

This light was taken out of a 60x60 ceiling panel in the kitchen. Guess what's located nearby? The smoke detector.....I wonder what this environment does to electronic circuits?

This is what all the fuss had been about in the Point. We want a fire alarm which works properly. In some other buildings in Dubai they just switch the fire alarms off due to problems caused by condensation and excessive false alarms. They tried to do this in the Point but we weren't putting up with it. Once we're done the Point will be one of the safest buildings in Dubai!

Stay on the curve folks and don't get hoodwinked by Select Group who will try to butt **** you at every possible opportunity if they think it will save them money or make them money. Also take note of the recent article in the paper - everyone's got their fingers in your till!

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/kickback-culture-hikes-service-fees-in-dubai-say-experts-443182.html

I would suggest that all Torch owners have their lagging checked also and get their lagging upgraded if required. I was told by my management agent that the average cost to the owners whom required re-insulation and taping of pipes at the Point has been AED 700.

I would suggest that all Torch owners have their lagging checked also and get their lagging upgraded if required. I was told by my management agent that the average cost to the owners whom required re-insulation and taping of pipes at the Point has been AED 700.

Wil e-mail them now at THE POINT and get done then 700 is Bargain although i shoudn't have to pay in reality

Wil e-mail them now at THE POINT and get done then 700 is Bargain although i shoudn't have to pay in reality

Hi mate, can you pass me details of who will do this at this cost ?? Good luck on Sunday !!

I would suggest that all Torch owners have their lagging checked also and get their lagging upgraded if required. I was told by my management agent that the average cost to the owners whom required re-insulation and taping of pipes at the Point has been AED 700.


Sorry Steve, there's a bit more to it than that - some of the pipes aren't accessable from the ceiling access panels - so you have to cut the ceiling open to access these areas. Also, it's not just the tape, it's the insulation as well.

To get the job done properly would involve:-

1) Identifying the areas where water is condensing
2) Cutting back the poorly installed insulation
3) Treating corroded metalwork with corrosion inhibitor
4) Making proper insulated joints for bends and valves etc
5) Taping up properly
6) Repairing any access required in plasterboard ceilings ie refixing, taping, re-plastering, bonding and painting.

Whoever told you 700 chips was taking the piss my friend. You can't even get your FCU motors replaced for that!

Point fella paid 12k but I think it could be done for less but not for much less if you want it fixed properly. The problem is you will physically have to check the work otherwise they'll bodge it up like it is currently. Some of the owners in the Point have completely gutted their units back to the shell and refurbished them from scratch. They had to constantly check the work and get the 'tradesmen' to keep re-doing it until it was right. Shame we couldn't of bought the shells and done our own fit outs - it would of probably been a lot cheaper :lol:

If you sit in your offices and leave DCE to their own devices they will run riot and you'll end up with a shit load of issues in places where the builders think nobody will look. In my kitchen ceiling void I found a full roll of jointing tape, a box of pipe fixings, another box of screws, several pipe off cuts, some lagging tape (shame they didn't use it a bit better) - a large piece of plasterboard (first attempt at a ceiling access panel) - two suspended ceiling hangers and a load of general crud. Another owner found someone's half eaten lunch on a plate. They'd just boxed it in! We've also found hammers in the soil pipes - you name it they've probably done it!

Unfortunately there's no (worthwhile) cheap and easy on this one unless you come over and do it yourself.

PS. They don't seem to fit traps on your bath wastes - Worth checking if you remove your bath panel.

Hi mate, can you pass me details of who will do this at this cost ?? Good luck on Sunday !!

Thought to good to be true LOL --Steve i now beieve you work for SG :) I fell for that hook line and sinker :lol:

Jeffers I SO HOPE WESTUFF THEM SUNDaY but bit nervous !

Thought to good to be true LOL --Steve i now beieve you work for SG :) I fell for that hook line and sinker :lol:



Agree with you mate - Anyone without a bad word to say about Select Group and who's made 8,295 posts since 2005!!! is on Select Group's dirty money payroll

Is it the King of Spin? The "my managing agent told me.... " line is so transparent.

Now I realise why their developments are so shit. It's 'cos they spend all their time on Sky Scraper City re-posting Imre Salt's pictures and playing down any criticism of their developments by posting under aliases.

The whole Select Group affair is just an exercise in mis-selling from start to finish.

Glad to hear you would never touch any Select Group development ever again. I bloody well hope people read the words on these forums and don't just gaze at pretty pictures.

Get ready for a series of pretty pictures to be posted on here soon to try and hide the detail....... it's so bloody obvious what they're up to :bash:

Have a nice weekend.

This might help the anti force majeure claim. :dunno:

I have plenty other similar documents.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2aer01.jpg

ps. Zaki Marashli is Structural Manager for Khatib and Alami Consolidated Engineering Company.

Any more of these around?

Barry McBarry,, You do seem extremely eager to hear what micmonro has to say,, so much so you can't wait. Your desperate infantile posts are far from provocative. Incidentally, you never did tell us all how old you are. Are we corresponding with a child amusing himself from his bedroom? What are you after? If it turns out you are not just some little lad stirring things up for his own amusement then,,,, who knows?
SG are surely scraping the barrel if you're the best they can come up with.

Bravo!! Great speech. I'm 6 and three quarters by the way (i.e. nearly 7!). We probably read the same books judging by the quality of your posts.

Now, where is micmoron with the big news?!?!:cheers::lol::nuts::ohno:

Point fella paid 12k but I think it could be done for less

I think he paid too much. Although it was a 3 bed. Worth getting it done though, a small price to pay for peace of mind.

In my kitchen ceiling void I found a full roll of jointing tape, a box of pipe fixings, another box of screws, several pipe off cuts, some lagging tape - a large piece of plasterboard - two suspended ceiling hangers

What a lucky find. Put them on ebay and it may help pay for the upgrade.

Any more of these around?

Place a bid for the secret select x-files from mackie. I am sure you will find some more in there. Will help with your attempt to get Select to pay you off instead of taking expensive legal action.

This might help the anti force majeure claim. :dunno:

I have plenty other similar documents.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2aer01.jpg

ps. Zaki Marashli is Structural Manager for Khatib and Alami Consolidated Engineering Company.

Oh come on Steve, you say you have plenty of other similar documents. Why not post them?

This is one of the key areas for us all, the way Dubai Select misled us thinking we were buying into a iconic skyscraper designed by K&H when they had in fact dumped these architects in favour of someone else who took the K&H plans & redesigned a cheaper variation which K&H have disowned - they seemed horrified. Not forgetting the delay of several years.

Resale (sold) prices for the Torch are about the same as the original prices currently, not really any negative equity but a lot of money wasted over the last 6 years due to the 3.5 year delay if you bought off-plan (but there is the same delay situation in Princess and Infinity). Glad at least it was handed over and the price is at least the same as the original price even though we went through the biggest property price crash ever seen.

Will be interesting to see if BC turns out to be a disaster like the Point was partly due to the huge rush DCE are doing to finish it.


I paid 2.6 Mil AED (hi floor 3 bed) and have been offered 1.7 Mil AED So not exactaly the same as purchase?

I paid 2.6 Mil AED (hi floor 3 bed) and have been offered 1.7 Mil AED So not exactaly the same as purchase?

Could be worse as you could have bought 3 of them (like some other people on ssc).

Place a bid for the secret select x-files from mackie. I am sure you will find some more in there. Will help with your attempt to get Select to pay you off instead of taking expensive legal action.


And once again Dubai Steve uses the double bluff to discourage anyone from taking legal action against SG.

Must say, you do your homework SG, you lot must be up all night

And Select said, Let there be light: and there was light. sort of.

simple, but at least better than complete darkness there on the top of the un-torch. this thing is close to getting upgraded to "almost-torch tower" in my books... bam!

hope they will at some point install green LED low electricity consumption flood lights on all rings. maybe even with a flame-like flare effect!! easy nowadays with a cheap DMX controller - so easy. and not even expensive. then light up the two mechanical floors in green as well and you have yourself a light scheme with minimal maintenance.

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/PrincessTower/xIMG_0160.jpg

And Select said, Let there be light: and there was light. sort of.

simple, but at least better than complete darkness there on the top of the un-torch. this thing is close to getting upgraded to "almost-torch tower" in my books... bam!

hope they will at some point install green LED low electricity consumption flood lights on all rings. maybe even with a flame-like flare effect!! easy nowadays with a cheap DMX controller - so easy. and not even expensive. then light up the two mechanical floors in green as well and you have yourself a light scheme with minimal maintenance

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/PrincessTower/xIMG_0160.jpg
Everyone seems to have gone out for the evening???

They probably just walked up to the other end of the marina to admire the new roof lights:)

Select have done themselves a lot of damage. Why would ANYBODY want to deal with this company when the evidence is in full view. If they had treated their customers with respect & missed out on the lying,tricks & penny pinching they would probably find it easier to sell new developments. False economy instigated by a bloke with no class or morals.

I paid 2.6 Mil AED (hi floor 3 bed) and have been offered 1.7 Mil AED So not exactaly the same as purchase?

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qce5x1.jpg

Original prices are above for 3 beds. Not sure why you paid 2.6m. You can not include re-payment interest in your purchase price.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qce5x1.jpg

Original prices are above for 3 beds. Not sure why you paid 2.6m. You can not include re-payment interest in your purchase price.

Resale pehaps ? or late 2007/early 2008 price hike ?

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qce5x1.jpg

Original prices are above for 3 beds. Not sure why you paid 2.6m. You can not include re-payment interest in your purchase price.

Any news on the legalities of the LPP? a payment system usually appropriate for buying electrical appliance, was applied by Select to properties and actually allowed in Dubai, or were the authorities hoodwinked?

The "topal purchase price" on an LPP is the total over 15 years, Dubai Select convinced people that this was not a loan nor a mortgage - hence there is no interest.

How did they get away with this, now in Turkey too?

Must do wonders for the land dept. stats.

What Oqood fee did LPP folks pay? based on total purchase price, i.e. the price paid over 15 years?

Has Select paid the land department and registered all the apartments on time, to comply with the law? The answer is...

^^ Technically LPP buyers just have an inflated original purchase price. This is how it is written in the agreement, there is no mention of a lower price. The agreement of how and when that is paid back to the seller and if there are any concessions for early/fast payment is between those 2 parties.

Oqood fees were paid on the inflated LPP price, so this is the official purchase price with benefit of paying over a longer period of time as compensation.

^^So in efect, paying 90% in advance of completion with the final 10% at handover entitles you to a discounted sales price (shown in the table you posted). The LPP price is the base price then Steve!

When you analyse the payment profile of a LPP against handover, you are financing very little of the outstanding purchase price. In return for making a hefty deposit and regular payments during the construction phase, and effectively financing the build, the developer then lets you finance his profit margin at excessive interest/profit for him. Fantastic system for making other peoples money work for you! Wish I had thought of it :bash:

^^ Technically LPP buyers just have an inflated original purchase price. This is how it is written in the agreement, there is no mention of a lower price. The agreement of how and when that is paid back to the seller and if there are any concessions for early/fast payment is between those 2 parties.

Oqood fees were paid on the inflated LPP price, so this is the official purchase price with benefit of paying over a longer period of time as compensation.

I wonder how that will work in many years from now in terms of capital gains tax, if LPP purchasers repatriate proceeds from a sale.

I think the non status LPP plan would have been fine if they had kept their part of the bargain and delivered the building within 12months delay of the original date. Assuming 12 months is fair and reasonable allowance for unforeseen factors that affect regular progress on building works. However we know the delays were excessive and Select did nothing to mitigate the delays or the effect of them.

Let's look at an analogy;

Lets say I read a magazine article about a new flat screen TV that Panasconic are developing due for release in 2014. The screen size is 90" and it uses revolutionary plasma technology which will mean that the unit will only consume 10 watts of electricity and will deliver picture quality better than currently available. Panasconic are offering a stakeholder purchase scheme where the buyer is offered a favourable price discount in return for an advance payment plan . Expected sales price will be $5000 but you can pay $1000 now and $100 for the next 30 months and hence receive a discount on the sales price of $1000 dollars. Yippee! in we go with our $1000 and start paying $100 every month.

30 months later we have paid everything and no sign of the new Telly. The screen eventually comes to the market 3 years late, is not as fancy as the company said it would be and the revolutionary power saving technology is non existent. To make matters worse, they go on sale in the shops for $3500. Would you feel used and cheated having financed a duff company? I certainly wouldn't go near Panasconic again for my next Telly :) Even if their excuse was " at least we gave you a telly, you wouldn't have got one if you had done the same with LeG it Electronics :lol:

I wonder how that will work in many years from now in terms of capital gains tax, if LPP purchasers repatriate proceeds from a sale.

If you buy a house for more than the market value and sell at the same price then there is no capital gains to pay. I suggest that you seek professional tax advice however if you are UK based.

The LPP price is the base price then Steve

When considering resales, only the SPP price can be considered as the original price, since the inflated LPP price enabled people to pay over more instalments than those paying the SPP price. The new buyer can not take over the LPP and so will consider the SPP price as the original price. Also original LPP buyers can apply for an early repayment discount on the LPP price if paying before the end of the original term of the LPP (even after signing the addendums).

When considering resales, only the SPP price can be considered as the original price, since the inflated LPP price enabled people to pay over more instalments than those paying the SPP price. The new buyer can not take over the LPP and so will consider the SPP price as the original price. Also original LPP buyers can apply for an early repayment discount on the LPP price if paying before the end of the original term of the LPP (even after signing the addendums).

So what would HMRC say?

If you don't sell early and don't get a discount then I would imagine your purchase price is the lpp price detailed on your contract. But as I said get professional advice if you get income or are selling and are based in the uk.

If you don't sell early and don't get a discount then I would imagine your purchase price is the lpp price detailed on your contract. But as I said get professional advice if you get income or are selling and are based in the uk.

Dubai Steve, are you saying that the Select scam, the 15 year payment plan is totally illegal in all countries except Dubai and Turkey?

Obviously it would be totally illegal in th U.K.

Could you imagine if one claimed that one's actual purchase price of a house in the U.K. included all repayments over a 25 year period..one must call HMRC!!!!

Actually this is just the beginning, in many respects. The very beginning of an action that must occur in a very short timeframe.

So what would HMRC say?

The system was changed in the UK so all house/land purchases need to be recorded with HMRC and the stamp duty paid on purchase. Did you pay any stamp duty on your Dubai purchase? No!

Keep all your expense documentation and read the relevant notes accompanying the tax return section on "foreign property". The rules that apply will be the rules that are current at the time you sell.

When on the LPP, there is not any mortgage interest to offset on any rental income, so surely it follows that the purchase price is the LPP price or the total price you pay. If the other way around and there was mortgage interest to offset any rental income then you could not also claim the purchase price included those.

SPP buyers and most property buyers in Dubai were able to pay in instalments for their off-plan purchase. LPP buyers just get longer to pay in exchange for a higher price.

As TB says, keep all your expense documentation and read the relevant notes accompanying the tax return section on "foreign property". The rules that apply will be the rules that are current at the time you sell.

I've spent the last three weeks going over my 3 bed unit in the Point with a fine toothcomb. The smug *unts/Select Group bum chums will no doubt bang on about the Point being totally different to other Select Developments but the simple fact is.... it was built by the same monkeys who built the Torch and the issues I've found are apparently widespread throughout Dubai.

For those who want to get ahead of the curve this is the technical breakdown of what's wrong with DCE's pipe lagging and for that matter pretty much every other building in Dubai which was knocked up on the cheap with no quality control or oversight by the developer. In no particular order:-

- The pipe insulation is not cut correctly around elbow joints, gate valves, drain valves and support brackets (the brackets support the chiller pipe runs by tying them into the concrete ceiling)

- DCE taped all the insulation so it looks like everything is nice and tidy but this is where the problem lies. To identify an area of poor insulation you need to either spot the condensation or feel around each joint very carefully. Where the condensation has presented itself you will always find an area where the insulation is either too thin or is simply not present. You've really got to get your fingers into find the problems - if you feel cold it's a sign the insulation is poor or not there. I've found completely exposed chiller pipe in the worst cases. The difficult places to lag are notorious for gaps in the insulation. Eg where the CHWS pipe runs very close to the AC drain and the pipes touch. Or where the chiller water pipe is up tight against the ac outlet ducting. You'll also find virtually every joint is poorly lagged ie elbows, valves etc.

- I've completed the re-lagging exercise in my 3 bed unit and it's not an easy job if you want it done properly. I stripped back the insulation, removed condensed water and rust, treated corroded areas with zinc oxide, remade the insulation properly, re-taped it and then covered the repaired areas with aluminium foil tape to improve the thermal insulation even further.

- I had to cut two ceiling access holes in the corridor to lag support brackets and two elbows which were poorly insulated. I also repaired any water damage on the ceiling side of the plasterboard - the condensation drips make holes in the plasterboard which will eventually fail and leak directly into your unit. After filling the damaged areas I treated both sides of the plasterboard with an oil based paint to protect them in the event of any future condensation. Shouldn't be a problem now due to lagging everything properly.

- Basically every FCU (fan coil unit) will need a lot of remedial lagging done around it is there are normally quite a few gate valves to allow the unit to be taken out of circuit for servicing/repair etc.

- Someone suggested 700 AED to get this done. If you want some clown to stand on some step ladders and put some tape around your condensing pipes then rock on. It won't solve the problem!

To do this properly the insulation needs to be spot on. Botannica and the Torch do have lagged pipes - so did the Point. The point (pardon the pun) I'm making is I think the probability of the chiller pipes being poorly insulated in the Torch, Botanica, BC etc is almost 1. Ie certain. The condensation problems won't present themselves for a good while after handover as the water will be building up inside the lagging and dripping onto the 60x60 ceiling panels and onto the plasterboard ceilings. The problem will only become apparent about 12-18 months after handover when things start failing due to excessive condensation in your roof voids. If you see your 60x60 panels starting to warp then suspect trouble!

If anyone wants a list of materials let me know - doing this yourself doesn't cost much but it's a dirty and time consuming job. It would be much easier to do it in newer buildings as the surface level rust on the chiller pipes won't have really taken hold yet so you won't have rusty water running down your arms when you open up the old lagging!

Before idiots start posting pro Select crap about all their developments post the Point being top notch and perfect - I challenge these morons to revisit their units 1 year from now (after a nice hot summer) - let's see whether condensation problems have reared their head in SG developments by 12/02/13. If they have - I will be dishing it out to all the twits who drank too much Select Group coolaide

^^ Good information, Torch owners should get theirs checked also and find someone skilled,reliable and trust worthy to get this done in their units. Possibly can get a bulk discount. Also if done early the job will be easier/cheaper as there will not be any or much rust yet. Any management agents also needs informing about this, as it was a management agent that quoted AED 700 which as you say would likely just be for re-taping on a step ladder!

http://i39.tinypic.com/2hs6eqa.jpg

Torch light is now on.

YhteBCBWeTc

I've spent the last three weeks going over my 3 bed unit in the Point with a fine toothcomb. The smug *unts/Select Group bum chums will no doubt bang on about the Point being totally different to other Select Developments but the simple fact is.... it was built by the same monkeys who built the Torch and the issues I've found are apparently widespread throughout Dubai.

For those who want to get ahead of the curve this is the technical breakdown of what's wrong with DCE's pipe lagging and for that matter pretty much every other building in Dubai which was knocked up on the cheap with no quality control or oversight by the developer. In no particular order:-

- The pipe insulation is not cut correctly around elbow joints, gate valves, drain valves and support brackets (the brackets support the chiller pipe runs by tying them into the concrete ceiling)

- DCE taped all the insulation so it looks like everything is nice and tidy but this is where the problem lies. To identify an area of poor insulation you need to either spot the condensation or feel around each joint very carefully. Where the condensation has presented itself you will always find an area where the insulation is either too thin or is simply not present. You've really got to get your fingers into find the problems - if you feel cold it's a sign the insulation is poor or not there. I've found completely exposed chiller pipe in the worst cases. The difficult places to lag are notorious for gaps in the insulation. Eg where the CHWS pipe runs very close to the AC drain and the pipes touch. Or where the chiller water pipe is up tight against the ac outlet ducting. You'll also find virtually every joint is poorly lagged ie elbows, valves etc.

- I've completed the re-lagging exercise in my 3 bed unit and it's not an easy job if you want it done properly. I stripped back the insulation, removed condensed water and rust, treated corroded areas with zinc oxide, remade the insulation properly, re-taped it and then covered the repaired areas with aluminium foil tape to improve the thermal insulation even further.

- I had to cut two ceiling access holes in the corridor to lag support brackets and two elbows which were poorly insulated. I also repaired any water damage on the ceiling side of the plasterboard - the condensation drips make holes in the plasterboard which will eventually fail and leak directly into your unit. After filling the damaged areas I treated both sides of the plasterboard with an oil based paint to protect them in the event of any future condensation. Shouldn't be a problem now due to lagging everything properly.

- Basically every FCU (fan coil unit) will need a lot of remedial lagging done around it is there are normally quite a few gate valves to allow the unit to be taken out of circuit for servicing/repair etc.

- Someone suggested 700 AED to get this done. If you want some clown to stand on some step ladders and put some tape around your condensing pipes then rock on. It won't solve the problem!

To do this properly the insulation needs to be spot on. Botannica and the Torch do have lagged pipes - so did the Point. The point (pardon the pun) I'm making is I think the probability of the chiller pipes being poorly insulated in the Torch, Botanica, BC etc is almost 1. Ie certain. The condensation problems won't present themselves for a good while after handover as the water will be building up inside the lagging and dripping onto the 60x60 ceiling panels and onto the plasterboard ceilings. The problem will only become apparent about 12-18 months after handover when things start failing due to excessive condensation in your roof voids. If you see your 60x60 panels starting to warp then suspect trouble!

If anyone wants a list of materials let me know - doing this yourself doesn't cost much but it's a dirty and time consuming job. It would be much easier to do it in newer buildings as the surface level rust on the chiller pipes won't have really taken hold yet so you won't have rusty water running down your arms when you open up the old lagging!

Before idiots start posting pro Select crap about all their developments post the Point being top notch and perfect - I challenge these morons to revisit their units 1 year from now (after a nice hot summer) - let's see whether condensation problems have reared their head in SG developments by 12/02/13. If they have - I will be dishing it out to all the twits who drank too much Select Group coolaide

I would say the Torch is relatively top notch, even perfect, compared to the Point. :cheers::banana:

I would say the Torch is relatively top notch, even perfect, compared to the Point. :cheers::banana:

Righto Barry.....

We know ALL the issues in the Point..... what do you know about the Torch? F*CK ALL I suspect. I wouldn't be quite so quick to judge the Point until you've had an independent survey done on your own bodged Tower - particularly the fire safety systems. You may well find the results rather shocking.

Remember the same company who built the Point built the Torch..... probably the very same workers who get dicked about by Select Group and treated like shit.

If the Torch has 25% of the issues we've had in the Point you lot are F8cked! Be as smug as you like - when you've got water dripping through your ceilings in 6 months time you might be grateful for the insight the Point owners have provided to date.

P.S. There's a rumour that you've got leaks already.... funny how history repeats itself isn't it! Better get those fixed properly inside your DLP..... good luck with that - you'll bloody need it!

PPS Select Group have you guys exactly where they want you .... pants down with your service charges all paid up like obedient little customers..... little do you know what kind of backhand deal's been done with your FM provider and Select. Let's see how much remedial work gets done properly inside your DLP.... anything expensive WILL be bodged up until DLP expiry and then you'll realise you've just taken a 9 incher up the hoop - Enjoy!

^^ Good information, Torch owners should get theirs checked also and find someone skilled,reliable and trust worthy to get this done in their units. Possibly can get a bulk discount. Also if done early the job will be easier/cheaper as there will not be any or much rust yet. Any management agents also needs informing about this, as it was a management agent that quoted AED 700 which as you say would likely just be for re-taping on a step ladder!

Hey Steve, the job is doable on step ladders but you've got to get rid of any built up water in the existing lagging and treat any corrosion. Even in my own unit I found myself tempted to take short cuts as some of the pipes are really difficult to get to. I can completely understand why some poor bastard who had to lag 100 units cut corners - the job is a right pain in the arse to do properly but it's nice to see bone dry chiller pipe runs with the ac off.

I wouldn't really trust a third party to do it correctly as I think they'll just slap a load of tape over the offending areas which won't solve the problem. Finding the condensing areas is the key and some of them are really difficult to lag properly. I used expanding foam in a few places as it was too difficult to get lagging around the whole pipe diameter.

Total time spent including repairing the ceiling access holes I had to make - I estimate about 3 man days for a 3 bed flat including repainting hall ceiling.

Areas which needed work were:-

1) Hallway by front door (2 support brackets and elbows - need to cut ceiling open)
2) Hall opposite guest bathroom - (two support brackets - need to cut ceiling open)
3) Guest wc - all CHWS/CHWR pipe runs to/from FCU)
4) Laundry room - (two elbows)
5) Kitchen (All CHWS/CHWR pipe runs to/from FCU)
6) Bed 1 wc (All CHWS/CHWR pipe runs to/from FCU)
7) Cleaned all FCU filters - might as well while you're at it!

No chilled water pipes in Bed 2 or 3 so no drama. Add a bit more time on if you want to repair water damaged plasterboard and treat with an oil based paint afterwards.

One more tip re: Bogs - if you're bathroom/toilet stinks - lift the marble up which covers your enclosed cystern - if it really stinks in the box section you've got an open soil pipe which is venting into your bathroom via the hole in the box section which your flush pipe goes through. Solution is take out the toilet and remake the pan connector/soil pipe joint. The DCE clowns used fixed 90 degree pan connectors when they should of used flexibles. I also found a mangled WC bush which was blocking my soil pipe and a nice turd 'resting' on the bush in the middle of soil pipe wrapped in bog roll! There were gaps between the pan connector and the soil pipe - hence the foul smell. They also 'modified' the flush pipe by melting it with a blowtorch and then twisting it into position. Good improvisation if you live in Cuba but not so clever on a building which was sold a 5 star finishing

View from the 79th floor, thanks to Daniel Cheong

http://i44.tinypic.com/rvarh4.jpg

I wouldn't really trust a third party to do it correctly as I think they'll just slap a load of tape over the offending areas which won't solve the problem. Finding the condensing areas is the key and some of them are really difficult to lag properly. I used expanding foam in a few places as it was too difficult to get lagging around the whole pipe diameter.

I would not be able to do it myself (no good at DIY) so will need a 3rd party. Any suggestions welcome!

I would not be able to do it myself (no good at DIY) so will need a 3rd party. Any suggestions welcome!

Keep an eye on your pipes and if you find an condensation let me know. No point in worrying just yet - best to be aware of the potential problems so you can nip them in the bud if/when they happen. You never know Mr Brady may have done the lagging on your unit personally..... not sure whether that would be a good or a bad thing to be honest :) Nice pic by the way.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2hs6eqa.jpg

Torch light is now on.

Not the brightest of torches :|

Not the brightest of torches :|


^^here you go.


http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/PrincessTower/xIMG_0219.jpg


no seriously, such a fine looking tower. I'm almost tempted to buy a bunch of 1-bedrooms just to get into the owners association and make this thing shine the way it's supposed to.

the white light on top is better than nothing. but this beautiful piece of architecture deserves a little bit more attention than it's currently getting. don't make me come up there and fix it myself!!!! :dj:

hehe, yes let's go, we should buy some units and switch on/off the lights to create a lightshow ;)

Righto Barry.....

We know ALL the issues in the Point..... what do you know about the Torch? F*CK ALL I suspect. I wouldn't be quite so quick to judge the Point until you've had an independent survey done on your own bodged Tower - particularly the fire safety systems. You may well find the results rather shocking.

Remember the same company who built the Point built the Torch..... probably the very same workers who get dicked about by Select Group and treated like shit.

If the Torch has 25% of the issues we've had in the Point you lot are F8cked! Be as smug as you like - when you've got water dripping through your ceilings in 6 months time you might be grateful for the insight the Point owners have provided to date.

P.S. There's a rumour that you've got leaks already.... funny how history repeats itself isn't it! Better get those fixed properly inside your DLP..... good luck with that - you'll bloody need it!

PPS Select Group have you guys exactly where they want you .... pants down with your service charges all paid up like obedient little customers..... little do you know what kind of backhand deal's been done with your FM provider and Select. Let's see how much remedial work gets done properly inside your DLP.... anything expensive WILL be bodged up until DLP expiry and then you'll realise you've just taken a 9 incher up the hoop - Enjoy!

What's wrong with a 9 incher? Sounds good.

http://i41.tinypic.com/14kh89e.jpg

Today morning , i find the Basement 4 full of water around 3 inches of water flow all over the basement
i can't pass to reach my car , i leave it and take a taxi.
I don't know what is happen now , i don't know if they fix this stupid problem , and i don't Know what happen to my car.

Today morning , i find the Basement 4 full of water around 3 inches of water flow all over the basement
i can't pass to reach my car , i leave it and take a taxi.
I don't know what is happen now , i don't know if they fix this stupid problem , and i don't Know what happen to my car.

Oh Dear ! Not too surprised though. Leaks are the norm with Select developments so you better get used to it. Possibly the pool leaking?

Today morning , i find the Basement 4 full of water around 3 inches of water flow all over the basement
i can't pass to reach my car , i leave it and take a taxi.
I don't know what is happen now , i don't know if they fix this stupid problem , and i don't Know what happen to my car.

You cant pass 3 inches of water..?! Are you a dwarf? :lol: :lol:

Only kiddin mate. Thanks for the update. Hopefully it will get sorted quickly :cheers:

You cant pass 3 inches of water..?! Are you a dwarf? :lol: :lol:

Only kiddin mate. Thanks for the update. Hopefully it will get sorted quickly :cheers:


I'm sorry man , i think it is around 8 inches
20 cm depth of water all over this area is huge amount , why i have to pass through it and walking around 20 meter to reach my car and spoil my shoe & jeans
:nuts:

I think I would take my socks and shoes off, roll up my trousers and get my car out just in case the problem gets worse.

I hope it is just a leaking pipe and not the waterproofing failure of the basement. Is this problem on the bottom basement level?

I think I would take my socks and shoes off, roll up my trousers and get my car out just in case the problem gets worse.

I hope it is just a leaking pipe and not the waterproofing failure of the basement. Is this problem on the bottom basement level?


yea ,u r right
i had to do that
i called them from 5 minutes , those stupid said , there is a problem in one pipe and they didn't fix it till now
i don't know about the other levels , it is the first time i park on Basement 4
once i'll reach there i'll check and i'l inform u

Today morning , i find the Basement 4 full of water around 3 inches of water flow all over the basement
i can't pass to reach my car , i leave it and take a taxi.
I don't know what is happen now , i don't know if they fix this stupid problem , and i don't Know what happen to my car.

The DCE bodge ups are starting to rear their ugly heads.... you guys better get used to it. Best check your lifting station 'cos Select Group don't maintain much in the first year - they just charge you a shit load of money and drop a load of cleaners into the building to make it look like stuff's being done.

Expect leaks and lots of em, Select will bodge up anything difficult to fix inside the DLP so that you'll have to get it done properly (expensively) after the DLP expires. If you see people constantly repairing the same areas start worrying cos all the water damage will be causing havoc in all the places you can't see and you'll pick up the tab for it in the end. Select Group's policy of not fixing things properly will cost you dearly - you'd be better off getting remedial work done independently so it's done properly first time rounds.

For all the smug fuc*ers - you were warned what to expect but your blind faith in Select Group seems to have got the better of you.

PS Is the ceiling down in the gym in the Torch?

No more problems at the gym.

http://i41.tinypic.com/rk97w5.jpg

I have a lower apartment in the Torch and I am VERY concerned that I have damp ceiling and black mould appearing. I am awaiting report from defects maintenance. If it is fixed under warranty and reappears after the 12 month defects warranty is over, I would believe it would be a latent defect and therefore still covered if it spreads!

^^ Let us know what defects maintenance say!

[QUOTE=SGrCRAP;88475084]
The problem will only become apparent about 12-18 months after handover when things start failing due to excessive condensation in your roof voids.

I have a lower apartment in the Torch and I am VERY concerned that I have damp ceiling and black mould appearing. I am awaiting report from defects maintenance. If it is fixed under warranty and reappears after the 12 month defects warranty is over, I would believe it would be a latent defect and therefore still covered if it spreads!

Certainly sounds like the "condensation on unlagged chiller pipes" problem. Although I am just guessing.

Try and have a look at the problem yourself, as maintenance might not tell you the real reason for the dampness. It could be a whole host of issues from leaking pipes, leaking water cylinders or a leak from the apartment above you that is finding its way down through the floor penetrations and onto your ceiling.