#UNDER C: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m

[scoobydoobyBUY]

There is -NO- apartment plan in the contract otherwise it would have been far more clear to see the new design and help us realise that all the conversations, emails and post from Dubai Select were in fact describing a ficticious appartment to con us into buying! In the contract there is just a floor plan which had our apt in miniature with the all the other apts.
This floor plan in the contract seemed to have the same general layout as that which we expected, and especially as we had recently received all the ficticious A4 -APARTMENT- plans by post and by email we didn't spot that the cleverly presented tiny detail in the floor plan included in the contract indicated a total redesign of the balcony. As you are probably aware we are not the only ones to have missed this.

So Dubai Select are now saying that the floor plan in the contract with a tiny indication of our apt in the corner (not an A4 -apartment- plan because there was none in the contract) was their special way of letting us know that there was a -major- change to the balcony, 13sqm-> 3.7 sqm with large nasty walls.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

What a load of bollocks!! - The contract is not UK legally binding !! - its UAE binding!!! - the contract is with a UAE based company (Torch Select - if I recall) - The governing body is the UAE Government!!!

Can someone correct me if Im wrong!?!

Umar Sheikh, surely you are not suggesting for a minute that when Adam Price (who has recently been promoted in Dubai Select, or so he informs us), was -WILDLY- inaccurate when he indicated in his email dated 16th Jan 2006 that the contract was UK legally binding?

[umer_sheikh]

Umar Sheikh, surely you are not suggesting for a minute that when Adam Price (who has recently been promoted in Dubai Select, or so he informs us), was -WILDLY- inaccurate when he indicated in his email dated 16th Jan 2006 that the contract was UK legally binding?

Scooby - Im not suggesting anything - I am TELLING YOU FACT!!!
PAGE 34 OF YOUR CONTRACT

8.1 - GOVRNING LAW
This agreement is governed by the laws appicable in the Emirate of Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Any one telling you different was talking bollocks!!!

[Dubai_Steve]

The website still says

"Each of the 658 luxury apartments boast spacious balconies with unparalleled views across Dubai"

"each spacious apartment offers large windows throughout and exceptional balcony space with views to compliment both the location and height of this sensational development"

Mark Stott - get your finger out - time for some firing at Dubai Select I think for false advertising, lies and deceipt.

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/media/images/quote.gif

[umer_sheikh]

The website still says



Mark Stott - get your finger out - time for some firing at Dubai Select I think for false advertising, lies and deceipt.

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/media/images/quote.gif


I LOVE IT!!! :bash:

[Dubai_Steve]

I notice on DS website that it says that residence visas permits the holder to work in Dubai.

This is not true is it?

[umer_sheikh]

I notice on DS website that it says that residence visas permits the holder to work in Dubai.

This is not true is it?


More bollox!!
On buying property in Dubai - You get a RESIDENCE VISA - thats it.
To work in Dubai you need to be sponsored by a company or set up a business in a free zone!!

SOME FIRING NEEDS TO BE DONE I THINK!!!! :bash:

[Jonathan Vaughan]

As ever, Dubai Select have been paying close attention to this thread and as stated previously we are aware this is a forum for enthusiasts to air opinion, not an arena for us to promote ourselves or to dictate the debate. We respect that some users do not want to see developers using these forums, however as we have been asked for comment we are more than happy to assist given the nature of the topic over recent days.

Dubai Select are 100% committed to our customers, we operate a contracts team in the UK who are in place to answer any questions or queries for individuals at contract, a free service that is not offered by our competition. We also operate a member services team, in place to assist existing customers with after sales anything from foreign currency exchange to booking a flight to Dubai, again a free service not offered by our competition.

All build updates are communicated directly to customers as soon as they are officially confirmed, we are not obliged to do this but see it as a professional business practice to do so.

Changes to design do happen, it is an inevitable part of purchasing off-plan property as a number of people have commented. Unfortunately this is not something we can avoid, however what we can do is manage the situation. We are not in the business of questioning how other developers run their projects but what we can say is that we are proud to tackle things head on and believe that we do indeed look after the interest of our investors.

As Ashka stated, if a person had purchased solely on the aspect of one particular, for instance the balcony, and changes to the plan meant that this was not to be delivered then we would look at a solution for that investor (if no solution were to be reached then we would offer a full refund including the non-refundable deposit). Again this is not an obligation but something we will do to protect the interest of our investors.
Our intention is not to work with our investors on one project, but deliver a return so they will be with us on the next.

To confirm – the 2 bedroom apartments in discussion (below floors 22) have been redesigned.

In short the average apartment’s balcony is now at 39.82 sq ft (3.7 sq metres) however the apartments have increased in size by 9.17% from 1123 sq ft to 1226 sq ft. Naturally this is great news for investors yet we can understand that this is not necessarily good news for all purchasers.

Naturally if you have any concerns regarding reconfiguration then contact Dubai Select directly on 0870 111 0000 or 0044 161 488 3555.

[umer_sheikh]

there you go scoobie doobie dooo!!!!
Looks like you can get a refund!!!
Looks like all this banter on here is worth it!!!

Let us know how you get on!

Umer

[Krazy]

thanks jonathan.. can u also confirm if the design of the tower has been changed ...from the original render to the latest pics of the model in your office? Also, is the height still 345m? Thanks.

[Krazy]

that is... has it been changed from this
http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk/media/img/torch-large.jpg

to this?
http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8gnp.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

Thanks for the reply JV. Have a good weekend :cheers: (but sort out your website a bit next week)

[Morrismarina]

Jonathan Vaughan,

I have been more than happy with the service I have received from Dubai Select having puchased a one bed unit. And I am extremely happy with the revised layout and increase in size. Your staff have been more than proficient and professional in my particular experience and I am entirely confident that DubaiSelect will deliver a superb property for me.

However some purchasers are unhappy given their comments posted recently here on this forum.

Could I ask that you address two issues please for everybody's sake:

1) Update the floorplans on the website, they are way out of date. The one bed and small two bed individual unit layouts together with the overall 6 -21 floors layout are clearly not correct now. (ie. you still have the large 13 sq m balconies showing for the two beds). I suggest have a word with your IT department a.s.a.p. to prevent any further confusion and allegations of mis-selling.

2) The FAQ's section of the website is showing incorrect information. Under the Section headed "Will I Gain Residency" it reads as follows " New property owners and their immediate family are granted applications for residence visas in accordance with the latest immigration regulations, which permit the holder to work in Dubai". Clearly this is an inaccurate statement, residency and employment visas are separate and buying a property in Dubai does not entitle one to work there in any shape or form.

Thanks.

[DUBAI]

^^FYI DUABI is 21 and as far as i know not a lawyer

Far comment that the website plan and the contract plans are not the same and you could regard that as false adevertising.

But if the contract shows the New Plan then really thats what you signed for. And anyway all contracts allow for a certain percentage of alteration and usually mention the amount and some have a process to follow if you don't agree etc.


I am not a lawyer, but i am studying politics, and as part of that i have taken units in english law.

as a consumer you have rights. somone cant market at you in an unfair manner. for example putting a picture of a huge pizza on a bx with a tiny one inside. when you purchase the pizza, you have an informal contract.
when purchasing property you have a formal contract.

however this is not the issiue. the contract doesnt have to be valid in this country, its not a contractual issiue.

you have consumer rights to expect a reasonable comparison between what you expect and what is delivered.

since this is not the case IMHO you have a case to take them to court for compensation, and report them to the office of fair trading.

[Ashka]

JV - Good of you to respond promptly and clear it up for Scooby, Umar and Dubai.

[DUBAI]

:rofl: i would hardley say its been 'cleared up'

but i havent invested, i dont care, i know enough about what goes on with dubai property companies not to invest anywhere, but still this was done in the uk, which means dubai select are liable.

anywho... moving swiftly on.

what has this amature building firm been up to?
with the lovely fixed price contract :bash:

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Dubai et al, thanks for the good tips by the way.
Who are these people who think such a deception can

[Morrismarina]

Scoobydoobybuy - good luck - I'm sure DubaiSelect will reach an amicable agreement with you.

[Morrismarina]

Nice to see the website has now been changed to show the correct balcony design for the Two Bed Type A.
However the overall floor plan (ie. the blue coloured one just above the individual unit layouts - showing all the one and two beds on the floor) is still out of date showing the large balcony. There are two of these plans, above the one bed and two bed units respectively. Hopefully DS will get these amended a.s.a.p. as well.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Maybe some poor sucker has just remortgaged to buy a ficticious large balcony apt, so DS are waiting for that juicy cheque first!

[Morrismarina]

I'm not so sure everybody thinks the same as you Scooby. If I were purchasing a two bed I'd prefer to have the smaller balcony and the larger interior. For three months in the summer heat, you probably couldn't stand being on the balcony anyway. ..........It's horses for courses.
If I were you I'd be talking to DS nicely.......by the way, what exactly do you want them to do ??? Would you be happy if they offered you all your money back ???

[Naz UK]

Maybe some poor sucker has just remortgaged to buy a ficticious large balcony apt, so DS are waiting for that juicy cheque first!

Glad you finally accepted that if a guy buys an apartment without scrutinisng the plans in his contract and instead believes he's buying the glossy brochure illustrations is indeed a "poor sucker".

Let it be a lesson to potential investors in Dubai. Enough said.

[minime]

Thats why Dubai investing in the metro, it might be hard to get people from dubai to use it but people from like London where they always used the tube would more likely not mind using the Metro.

I'd rather travel that way then get stressed in a car.

Anyway i heard a 5th lane being added to SZR don't know where from and upto which point.

And as flo siad i doubt they will be fully ocuupied all year round.

The metro should be ideal for holiday makers, some of them might not have a drivers license and will depend on the metro to take them from the airport to the marina.

Unfortunately the metro will only handle 5% of the traffic at max. There is a discussion on http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=97253&page=1&pp=20 that the metro should be extended into the neighbouring emirates. This would allow for inter-emirate traffic (the bulk of all traffic jams)

Since this will be another landmark tower.... Does anyone have the exact GPS location of the Torch plot? It will allow me to add it to the Dubai Map (http://dreamingdubai.com/DiscoverDubai/DubaiMap/tabid/251/Default.aspx) on http://dreamingdubai.com/DiscoverDubai/DubaiMap/tabid/251/Default.aspx

[AltinD]

Dubai Select has started offering The Torch in Dubai as well. They were offering 15 years payment terms, with 1br apartment starting from 890k.

[jetsetter]

Dubai Select has started offering The Torch in Dubai as well. They were offering 15 years payment terms, with 1br apartment starting from 890k.

DS have been selling in Dubai for ages - I bought my apmt thru a Dubai based rep last year.

[DUBAI]

Since this will be another landmark tower.... Does anyone have the exact GPS location of the Torch plot? It will allow me to add it to the Dubai Map (http://dreamingdubai.com/DiscoverDubai/DubaiMap/tabid/251/Default.aspx) on http://dreamingdubai.com/DiscoverDubai/DubaiMap/tabid/251/Default.aspx


You would be better off just featuring the 'tallest block' as a landmark

[Mistermark]

All build updates are communicated directly to customers as soon as they are officially confirmed, we are not obliged to do this but see it as a professional business practice to do so.
Changes to design do happen, it is an inevitable part of purchasing off-plan property as a number of people have commented. Unfortunately this is not something we can avoid, however what we can do is manage the situation. We are not in the business of questioning how other developers run their projects but what we can say is that we are proud to tackle things head on and believe that we do indeed look after the interest of our investors.
As Ashka stated, if a person had purchased solely on the aspect of one particular, for instance the balcony, and changes to the plan meant that this was not to be delivered then we would look at a solution for that investor (if no solution were to be reached then we would offer a full refund including the non-refundable deposit). Again this is not an obligation but something we will do to protect the interest of our investors.
Our intention is not to work with our investors on one project, but deliver a return so they will be with us on the next.


Well... let's see how these claims match up to my experience as someone who would hope to be a valued customer (having been one of the first to reserve in The Torch, taking two of the most expensive type 06, marina-facing apartments...

1. A very significant 'build update' that resulted in my apartments no longer being the top two in the development of their type was not communicated to me until more than a month after the change was confirmed. I therefore dispute your assertion that you notify customers of changes as soon as they become officially confirmed. During the month's silence the 'new' two top 06s were sold, making it impossible to solve my complaint in the most obvious way (simply switching my reservation to these two properties)

2. Once I became aware of the problem I asked DS to solve it. I suggested they discount the properties I was buying by 5% to reflect the fact that they'd unilaterally modified the spec to remove a feature I considered warranted a premium (of all the two-bed apartments in the development with direct marina/sea views, mine were on the top two floors). They refused. They did offer me a 5% discount on an additional property (originally I received 2.5%, and had I bought four, and possibly three, I would have got 5%). I rejected this offer because the discount was based on prices that were significantly higher than a year ago when I could have bought additional properties but chose not to do so. I therefore think your claim to 'look at a solution for that investor' amounts to not very much...

3. Offering a refund, which to be fair to DS they have done, is not 'protecting the interests of our investors'. *All* Dubai property has increased in value in the 12 months or thereabouts since I reserved, so giving me my money back doesn't put me in the situation I would have been in had I not done business with DS, but instead bought in another Dubai development

4. I considered 'being with you on the next [development]' but chose not to because (i) The Point is at least 30% more expensive than other developments currently available in the Marina, for no reason that I can discern and (ii) once bitten, twice shy...

Yes, I accept that specifications and timescales can change in Dubai, but when they happen I would hope (i) to be told about it as soon as possible and (ii) that the developer would be prepared to do what it takes to make me happy. Your post to this forum is intended to imply that DS scores highly on these two points. Unfortunately my experience points to the opposite...

[arfie]

Any more news on any action on the plots in front of the Torch ? Alot of customers when buying apts 05 and 06 where told they will have full marina views as the only thing in front will be a 13 storey building max! If huge buildings are built in front then this project could go Pear shaped!

[Gorilla]

I find it hard to beleive that Dubai Select don't know about the plans on Emaar site by now! They would have a direct contact and cause for concern and certainly would be told by Emaar about the plans. Are they keeping quiet until more apartments are sold!?

[arfie]

well they claim around 90% of the apts are sold. All apts facing directly towards the marina in the Torch have been sold. So if they have any information about Emaars plan they should tell us now!

[jetsetter]

I doubt that DS know what's happening - this info should be strictly confidential between Emaar and the plot purchaser.
Keeping DS in the dark will have no effect on Emaar's business.

[Naz UK]

That is, if Emaar indeed "have" sold the plot(s). They may have plans of their own for this area...

[arfie]

They def have sold these plots to another developer but they wont reveal who yet. I phoned emaar this morning to try and get more information out of them. All they could confirm was they had sold the plot but would not confirm who to.

[Krazy]

Well... let's see how these claims match up to my experience as someone who would hope to be a valued customer (having been one of the first to reserve in The Torch, taking two of the most expensive type 06, marina-facing apartments...

1. A very significant 'build update' that resulted in my apartments no longer being the top two in the development of their type was not communicated to me until more than a month after the change was confirmed. I therefore dispute your assertion that you notify customers of changes as soon as they become officially confirmed. During the month's silence the 'new' two top 06s were sold, making it impossible to solve my complaint in the most obvious way (simply switching my reservation to these two properties)

2. Once I became aware of the problem I asked DS to solve it. I suggested they discount the properties I was buying by 5% to reflect the fact that they'd unilaterally modified the spec to remove a feature I considered warranted a premium (of all the two-bed apartments in the development with direct marina/sea views, mine were on the top two floors). They refused. They did offer me a 5% discount on an additional property (originally I received 2.5%, and had I bought four, and possibly three, I would have got 5%). I rejected this offer because the discount was based on prices that were significantly higher than a year ago when I could have bought additional properties but chose not to do so. I therefore think your claim to 'look at a solution for that investor' amounts to not very much...

3. Offering a refund, which to be fair to DS they have done, is not 'protecting the interests of our investors'. *All* Dubai property has increased in value in the 12 months or thereabouts since I reserved, so giving me my money back doesn't put me in the situation I would have been in had I not done business with DS, but instead bought in another Dubai development

4. I considered 'being with you on the next [development]' but chose not to because (i) The Point is at least 30% more expensive than other developments currently available in the Marina, for no reason that I can discern and (ii) once bitten, twice shy...

Yes, I accept that specifications and timescales can change in Dubai, but when they happen I would hope (i) to be told about it as soon as possible and (ii) that the developer would be prepared to do what it takes to make me happy. Your post to this forum is intended to imply that DS scores highly on these two points. Unfortunately my experience points to the opposite...

Let's hope this doesn't turn into another Wind situation

[Naz UK]

Not likely Krazy, as far as i remember, the Wind have had a massive 2 year delay in construction of their towers...due to a plenthora of given and ungiven reasons...

Dubai Select on the other hand are well underway with no sign of any setbacks. The biggest development with DS is that they had design modifications (both interntal and external) but that has not affected construction in any way, unlike the Wind's situation.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

"From the 16th floor of the Torch the view of the Arabian gulf coastline and the Jumeirah palms along with the city view will be spectacular to say the least". "Having been on the plot area this week I can advise you that this apartment would give you superb views over the Jumeirah beach and jumeriah palm island". These are comments emailed to us by Dubai Select in late Jan 06, just prior to our purchase.

Is it true?

[Krazy]

the fact that they call Palm Jumeirah "Jumeirah palms" would make me think twice about their knowledge

[Naz UK]

"From the 16th floor of the Torch the view of the Arabian gulf coastline and the Jumeirah palms along with the city view will be spectacular to say the least". "Having been on the plot area this week I can advise you that this apartment would give you superb views over the Jumeirah beach and jumeriah palm island". These are comments emailed to us by Dubai Select in late Jan 06, just prior to our purchase.

Is it true?

This plot map: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=332478 was available in January (coz I printed it out on Jan. 4th to take along with me to Dubai) clearly showing where all the "confirmed" plots were surrounding the Torch. Indeed..if you look at the plot maps on Dubai Select's own website and in their brochure, even as a rough sketch, it clearly shows Al Marsa, Princess, Emirates Crown, Le Reve..all in between the beach and the Torch...

If in January you purchased an apartment in the Torch thinking that you had unrivalled views of the Palm and the beach then you have no one but yourself to blame.

Just out of interest Scooby, what (if any at all) research did you do before committing to your purchase in the Torch? And why did you choose the Torch in the first place?

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Naz UK, thanks, are you saying there is no truth whatsoever in what Dubai Select said about the view from the flat we were about to buy?

[dubaiflo]

^^ exactly.

[umer_sheikh]

Naz UK, thanks, are you saying there is no truth whatsoever in what Dubai Select said about the view from the flat we were about to buy?

Scoobie doobie doo - Sounds like you have been well and truly "SOLD" to!!

What are you gonna do ?? - Judging from Dubai Selects response on here, there may offer you a refund !!

[jetsetter]

I wonder if DS would offer refunds to those who bought marina views only to have a supertall put right in front.......doubtful.

[Dubai_Steve]

probably they would beacuse they can resell at a higher price and make a further profit, but I am not sure I would not want a refund as I would have lost almost 1 years capital gain.

[Naz UK]

Naz UK, thanks, are you saying there is no truth whatsoever in what Dubai Select said about the view from the flat we were about to buy?

Scooby, are you saying that upon being told that you would have great views of Palm Jumeirah, the beach, etc etc..you just "accepted" this without any research of your own and went ahead and paid your deposit?

Wow...you're a salesperson's dream you are Scooby!

[Morrismarina]

I have some questions to ask two forumers here:

1) Mistermark -

a) I assume your contract with DS states SPECIFICALLY that you are purchasing the top two bed apartments at the Torch ?? And I don't just mean the floor number.........you know what I'm getting at....is this is in your contract ?? If yes then you have a case against DS. If not, then why did you sign it ??? And if it's not in your contract what on earth on you whinging on about ?? As a bonus you've gone up six floors following the re-design of the tower. (There's no pleasing some people).

b) I assume that your contract does not therefore contain clause 9.2 "The Seller may change vary or modify the plans etc" ??

c) Are you seriously expecting DS to contact every purchaser (and seek their agreement) to see whether they wish to purchase a floor higher up the tower before going ahead with the re-design ?? What about the people who purchased the floor below you, they had the second highest floor of two beds, should they have been asked as well. And what about the third highest and the fourth highest....etc.etc. I purchased the 45th highest but now I'm only the 60th highest, perhaps I have case as well..DS should have contacted me then ???

2) ScoobyDoobyBuy - I assume you flew out to Dubai to have a look at the Marina, the Torch plot and surrounding tower plots before you purchased ???? Surely you weren't so silly as to purchase before doing this ???

[Krazy]

Ok I am getting tired of these investment questions. We already have a third part for this one because of the countless investment discussions. We have the investment thread on the main page for a reason.

Please move your investment discussions and questions/answers to the property investment thread on the main page. Here's the link

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

Any further investment related posts will be deleted.

[dubaiflo]

Discuss your apts curtain's colour here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321509)

this one is for Torch only!!

[dubaiflo]

http://realestate.theemiratesnetwork.com/developments/dubai/images/the_torch_logo.jpg

Here is the new thread about the SKYSCRAPER The Torch:


http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk/media/img/torch-large.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8gnp.jpg

The Torch, also referred to as the Marina Torch and Dubai Torch, is being built as one of the many freehold residential towers located at the Dubai Marina, which is opposite to the Jumeirah Lake Towers and next to the American University of Dubai. It is located on the same side of the marina as the Dubai Marina Towers and just two buildings away.

The 345 meter (1,132 feet) high building will have a total built up area of 111,832 square meters (1.2 million square feet) and be elevated by 3 basements and a 4-storey podium block. The Torch tower will have 74 storeys and contain 504 apartment units with 128 1-bedroom, 128 2-bedroom, 68 3-bedroom, and 4 duplex apartment suites ranging from 904 to 1,712 square feet.

The three basements and four podium levels of the Torch tower will provide car parking for 536 vehicles, while floors 5 and 6 will contain recreational amenities including a swimming pool, health club, gymnasium, cafeteria, aerobic rooms and sit-out cover seal terraces.

Expected Completion Date - In 2008
Real Estate Developer - Dubai Select Property
Location - Dubai Marina, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

April, 19th 2006


http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8bcm.jpg


http://i2.tinypic.com/orpchy.jpg



AND here is the INVESTORS THREAD:

Discuss your apts curtain's colour here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321509)

Since the old one went into bullshit i thought i open the new one now...

[Naz UK]

^^ Great way to open and introduce a new thread. :sleepy:

[DUBAI]

That render is out of date flo.

put the new model pics up!

[dubaiflo]

^^ done.

^^ Great way to open and introduce a new thread. :sleepy:

thanks :cheers:

[arfie]

Anymore news on any activity taking place in front of the Torch plot ?

Also I hope DS have showroom apts for the Torch in the near future so we can see what the interior will look like.

[umer_sheikh]

Anymore news on any activity taking place in front of the Torch plot ?

Also I hope DS have showroom apts for the Torch in the near future so we can see what the interior will look like.

Why would they bother doing that? - The tower is pretty much sold out!!
If you go to Dubai you can see the finishes and the model tower - I pretty much doubt that after having pretty much SOLD the entire tower they will have a showroom appartment.
Showroom appartments are usually in place to help SELL a appartment!!

Umer

[Morrismarina]

Just wondered if anybody had a picture of the old render (ie. before the re-design) I sort of recall it was posted here al long time ago, maybe Torch Thread 1 or 2 which is closed now. Would be interesting to compare the two if perhaps somebody could kindly post it here.

[dubaiflo]

there has never been an old render ,has there..

only the model shows the changes!

[Naz UK]

If you look closely again...and compare the old render with the new model..there isn't really much difference. The only real difference is that instead of the building gradually getting smaller, like a slight cone shape...it's now more equal for the bottom 40 or so floors...this is so that apartment sizes are now more or less the same..whereas before they got slightly smaller as you went up.

I still think the aluminium and glass facade will look awesome, especially when its surrounded by the usual cladding on the other towers.

[Trances]

Glad to see this one is still coming along !

[Gorilla]

This is becoming more and more like Al-Marsa ! >(

[arfie]

Anyone interested in purchasing a 2 bedroom on the 30th floor looking directly onto the marina ? Also 14th floor 2 bed 08 apt looking to the sea ?

[Gorilla]

on the 30th floor looking directly onto the marina ?

looking onto the marina, arfie bad place to try that, surely readers here are all by now aware of the plot in front, will you guarantee the marina view??!!

[Naz UK]

This is becoming more and more like Al-Marsa ! >(

Er, yes indeed..in as much as its a tall building. :sleepy:

[Ashka]

NAZ - you can't be serious?
Most people know that DAMAC are building a massive (including tall) complex in front of your beloved TT.
You are hemmed in mate!

[Dubai_Steve]

DAMAC are builing a tower next to Infinity. There is nothing to suggest they own the plots in front of TT. Unless you know otherwise?

[Naz UK]

NAZ - you can't be serious?
Most people know that DAMAC are building a massive (including tall) complex in front of your beloved TT.
You are hemmed in mate!

Yes, but aliens from another Milky Way will use Dubai Marina as prime experimentation grounds, and will be paying all residents £1million each...so i'm not bothered....i'm sorry but if you're gona start using fiction as a basis of your arguments...two can play that game.

BTW, if a tall tower gets built in the plots in front of the Torch, I couldn't give a rat's arse. I have a sea (Princess/Le Reve) view..and its for holiday-let purposes, mainly for desperate ppl who couldn't get a hotel in time, or can't afford booking collectively the second most expensive hotels in the world.

[Krazy]

I really dont understand... so what if a large ass tower gets built in front of the torch or marina heights? so what if it's damac... infact if a 300m damac was tall to be built in front of my apartment.. i would pray that it looks as good as say marina terrace... it's absolutely gorgeous at night!

Two advantages of having Damac build a tall in front of ur apartment than some other developer:
1. It will probably be delayed by 10 years
2. It will be of gorgeous design

Besides.. you guys act like you're gonna sit on your balconies all day and enjoy the 40C temperatures! Let's get real... what matters is location and quality of interiors, more than anything else.

[jetsetter]

I really dont understand... so what if a large ass tower gets built in front of the torch or marina heights? so what if it's damac... infact if a 300m damac was tall to be built in front of my apartment.. i would pray that it looks as good as say marina terrace... it's absolutely gorgeous at night!

Two advantages of having Damac build a tall in front of ur apartment than some other developer:
1. It will probably be delayed by 10 years
2. It will be of gorgeous design

Besides.. you guys act like you're gonna sit on your balconies all day and enjoy the 40C temperatures! Let's get real... what matters is location and quality of interiors, more than anything else.


You're bang on the money Krazy.

Upon entering a hotel room for the first time, I for one do not sprint to the window to check out the view.

I want to see that the room is spacious and has nice interiors.

I unpack my crap and then get the hell out of the hotel to rejoin civilazation.

[Dubai_Steve]

Water views command a premium - imagine sitting back in your living room sofa watching the marina twinkle and reflect on the marina waters. Now imagine having to close your curtains instead to stop all thos DAMAC owners peering into your living room. I know which I would prefer and why I already paid that 15% premium.

[Krazy]

^^ I'd rather sit back on my sofa watching tv than the twinkling marina... yes it would be nice to have during the winter time when u can sit on the balcony sipping ur tea but not something that I would pay a heavy premium for unless I was flooded with money and was willing to pay over a million for a 1 bedroom

[lovedubai]

Holidaymakers don't watch loads of tv though. Hotels and apartments across the world charge extra for seaviews and if apartments are marketed to the tourist market they will prefer water views. The first thing us cold-blooded souls from miserable climates do when on holiday is to rush to the balcony to see whether it's got good views for sitting out on and watching the world go by.

[kano]

I really dont understand... so what if a large ass tower gets built in front of the torch or marina heights? so what if it's damac... infact if a 300m damac was tall to be built in front of my apartment.. i would pray that it looks as good as say marina terrace... it's absolutely gorgeous at night!

Two advantages of having Damac build a tall in front of ur apartment than some other developer:
1. It will probably be delayed by 10 years
2. It will be of gorgeous design

Besides.. you guys act like you're gonna sit on your balconies all day and enjoy the 40C temperatures! Let's get real... what matters is location and quality of interiors, more than anything else.

Krazy the point is that many of the buyers bought because of the marina views they had been promised...it's not just that people expect to sit on their balconies all day.

[kano]

It's just human nature for us to get what we were promised and when there is a change then panic settles in.

[arfie]

Also with so much being built in the marina area in the long term if someone wants to sell there apartment they have a better chance of selling with good premium if it has a decent view.

[AltinD]

View or not view ... at least it's getting build ;)


http://i3.tinypic.com/xgczdu.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/xgd08p.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/xgczo8.jpg

[thedubailife]

^^ Look at last picture how close sails office is to the tower plot...pleanty of work going on too

[arfie]

There will be a marina view no doubt about it even if towers built in front there will be enough gap for people to get marina views from the balcony!

[jetsetter]

Good lord - if a supertall goes where the sales office is then it'll lights out TT.
I hope DS are prepared for any fall-out after the unrivalled views claims made by the salespeople.

[jo_da]

It also depends on where in the plot the tower(s) are constructed (if they are).

From the above picture for example, a whole tower to the right part of the sales centre would only block you the views of DAMAC so it's not gonna be the end of the world. So it all depends on where it/they are positioned in the plot I think.

[malec]

It also depends on where in the plot the tower(s) are constructed (if they are).

From the above picture for example, a whole tower to the right part of the sales centre would only block you the views of DAMAC so it's not gonna be the end of the world. So it all depends on where it/they are positioned in the plot I think.
I wouldn't count on that ;)

[arfie]

Damac probably will struggle to sell another in the Marina due to high prices they charge. Also I very much doubt it will be Damac who purchased the plot. Damac claim they will only have 1 new development in the marina after Ocean Heights which must be the plot near infinity tower.

[DUBAI]

Also with so much being built in the marina area in the long term if someone wants to sell there apartment they have a better chance of selling with good premium if it has a decent view.


This thread seems to be deviating back to its investment habbit.
but one example

[jetsetter]

Interesting that the last 2 towers (The Point and Platinum) to be unveiled on the edge of the marina are both only 24F and 30F so there doesn't seem to be too many supertalls on the edge of any part of the marina blocking another supertall behind it.

[MORRIS DANCER]

Dear Forum
I have been watching the forum for some time now. I have invested in the torch and often find the forum a great source of information. I often contact DS to have them either confirm or clarify my Q's and some points raised on this forum. So far i have mixed feelings about them. I continue to trust my gut instinct and what i know for a fact instead of fiction. Some of there UK sales team have just returned from a visit to Dubai, so i am looking forward to some decent feedback and project status updates over the next days. If i don't get any concreate or definitive feedback with what is going on with the project and futre building around the torch, it just goes to show the staff were not committed to the project and in Duabi for a free sun tan and some beers.

BTW how come more torch investors are not using this forum?

[arfie]

I have been in touch with DS regularly about whats being built in front. Emaar have not revealed any information what so ever yet whats being built there or by whom. I myself and and one of my colleagues in Dubai have tried to ask Emaar whats being built but we get different stories all the time. Emaar are very disoranised themselves also!

What ever happens I still believe a majority of the people will have a decent Marina view from the Torch.

[thedubailife]

Interesting that the last 2 towers (The Point and Platinum) to be unveiled on the edge of the marina are both only 24F and 30F so there doesn't seem to be too many supertalls on the edge of any part of the marina blocking another supertall behind it.

This means nothing and we are speculating again....Infinity is right on the edge thats tall....also GH is 44 floors so tallish and the plots in this area are actually in the tall area of the marina where as the ones you mention are not in super tall area of marina yet.

So if we all stop speculating and taking this thread on a tangent for the 20th time we all be better off.

So unless you got concreate evidnce with a good source can we stop speculating it's just doing my head in and ruining the thread.

:bash:

[jetsetter]

I agree Arfie - I'm sure those with marina views will end up with some sort of marina view, albeit in between 2 buildings like the sea views.
Some of those in the top half of TT may even still get those 'unrivalled views'

Btw, check out the Dubai Marina thread for some stunning new pics posted today.

[arfie]

Also people from balconies of 04 and 05 apts on higher floors will get a good distance view of JLT and JI because the Emaar buildings on the left of the Torch are pretty small.

Just hope the interior of this project is good and worth waiting for when complete.

[Morrismarina]

Hi MorrisDancer welcome to the forum...............by the way are we related ???

[MORRIS DANCER]

So Who knows more about the interiors for the torch ? How about some answers and some senoir feedback and action from DS with decent renders of interiors eh? All i get from DS is not sure yet, not finalised yet, pool wont be oval shaped cause its not finalised yet blah blah blah? By the way the pictures posted on this forum of the model clearly from the DS office show design boards of interiors in the background. This project is not a car park. There's a lot to be organized in advance to meet constuction and handover dead lines. If the interiors are not yet fianlised what does this say for DS. Its a load of gob shite or what?

And please lets all stop talking about veiws or not views, interiors are paramount full stop. I dont know about you lot, but I dont want my apartments to have the standard of finishes that are very poor and finished in a hurry diue to dead lines or profits or bad development leadership. Lets push DS together on this issue instead of idel chit chat. Any one out there feel like me and want to do something pro-active about this instead of moaning, wondering and waiting for the sun to set on what could be a very good tower?

[MORRIS DANCER]

Hi Morris,

Thankx for the welcome.

Well my mother was called morris and my father was a dancer. So i was borne. I only have one borther but he aint hevy!

:jk:

[Naz UK]

^^ Please use the seperated at birth thread in Sky Majlis. :)

I have always been of the opinion that (as well as excessive investment talk) baseless speculating does nobody any favours nor does it educated us in any real terms about this development. So it would be very helpful to all if speculation could be backed up with some form of evidence. Personally, i'd rather quit speculating and only comment when Emaar finally announces something! (or Hell freezes over!).

[MORRIS DANCER]

^^ Please use the seperated at birth thread in Sky Majlis. :)

I have always been of the opinion that (as well as excessive investment talk) baseless speculating does nobody any favours nor does it educated us in any real terms about this development. So it would be very helpful to all if speculation could be backed up with some form of evidence. Personally, i'd rather quit speculating and only comment when Emaar finally announces something! (or Hell freezes over!).

Nice humour I like it.

Here Here, I agree.

BTW its not possible to squeeze a ressy betwenn MH and TT is it? I reckon a burger king would do well here?

[Krazy]

You reckon wrong. There is definitely going to be a high-rise, possibly as tall as the Torch if not taller, between TT and MH. Many are guessing it could be Marina 101 (due to its slim design)

[MORRIS DANCER]

You reckon wrong. There is definitely going to be a high-rise, possibly as tall as the Torch if not taller, between TT and MH. Many are guessing it could be Marina 101 (due to its slim design)

:eek2: Naaa Ya joking right?

The space is tiny. I wouldn't expect that there would just be nothing there that would just be a waste of real estate, but 101 i don't think so.

I'd still preffer a Burger king.

[Krazy]

We'd all prefer a lot of good things in life wouldnt we

[Morrismarina]

Wow....all this speculation is fantastic, please, please keep it up guys....please don't stop......not now.... I love it when we all get carried away....I'm not interested in any facts or realism at all, l just love all your speculating........

[scoobydoobyBUY]

the property misdescriptions act 1991

[Ashka]

^^ Please use the seperated at birth thread in Sky Majlis. :)

I have always been of the opinion that (as well as excessive investment talk) baseless speculating does nobody any favours nor does it educated us in any real terms about this development. So it would be very helpful to all if speculation could be backed up with some form of evidence. Personally, i'd rather quit speculating and only comment when Emaar finally announces something! (or Hell freezes over!).

:) Look at you!!! Why all so serious on TT thread? A proper pontif :jk:
How about reading some of your own most recent posts on speculation viz Damac?

[Morrismarina]

Found it ...I knew there were a previous render of the Torch. The pics were in the old No 1 Thread and were posted in June last year. The model was being shown in London by DS last summer. Doesn't look much different to the new render only less tapered.

Sorry but I can't work out how to post the pics directly to this page. Here's the links:

http://i2.tinypic.com/xoflo6.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/xofof5.jpg

Perhaps somebody could kindly grab them and post them as an attachment here please.

[Dubai_Steve]

Out with the old

http://i1.tinypic.com/xofof5.jpg

In with the new

http://i3.tinypic.com/vy8jnr.jpg

[Morrismarina]

Many thanks Dubai Steve. Any chance you could do the same please with the first picture (the full size pic) and then compare it with the new one.

[Naz UK]

:) Look at you!!! Why all so serious on TT thread? A proper pontif :jk:
Are you accusing me of being the Pope? :dunno:
How about reading some of your own most recent posts on speculation viz Damac?
Care to give any examples so that I might understand what you're on about?

And why are you consistently ruining tower threads with your banal questions? Can't you deal with your insecurities in Sky Majlis? Just a thought.

[DJRage]

Are you accusing me of being the Pope? :dunno:

Care to give any examples so that I might understand what you're on about?

And why are you consistently ruining tower threads with your banal questions? Can't you deal with your insecurities in Sky Majlis? Just a thought.

Message to Naz and Aksha and others...

Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Calm Down, Calm Down ( in strong scouser accent)

;-)

[MORRIS DANCER]

Good post Duabi Steve.

Must say i have never seen this model before. I reserved in December 05. I prefer this podium version with pools and use of space more than the recent model.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Is this not going to be an olympic size pool with lanes?

[Ashka]

Are you accusing me of being the Pope? :dunno:

Care to give any examples so that I might understand what you're on about?

And why are you consistently ruining tower threads with your banal questions? Can't you deal with your insecurities in Sky Majlis? Just a thought.

Now let's apply your own logic that I have spotted amongst your 737 posts todate.
No. of posts by Naz 737
No. of posts by Ashka 50

Assuming that most of mine are "banal questions" and 10% of yours are also similar category, I would say, you are in the lead. :cheers:

[Naz UK]

Hmmm. Great. Excellent. Now that's sorted, do you feel you're now at a place where you could consider not ruining this thread and returning to the topic of The Torch?

[arfie]

News from Emaar spoke to them earlier they have clarified the situation about the plot in front of the Torch and Marina Heights:-

They stated " the land is owned by Emaar and managed by Emaar itself"

There will not be 3 supertall towers after all it seems.

[DJRage]

Hmmm. Great. Excellent. Now that's sorted, do you feel you're now at a place where you could consider not ruining this thread and returning to the topic of The Torch?

I tend to agree with Naz, give it up and move on - please

[jetsetter]

News from Emaar spoke to them earlier they have clarified the situation about the plot in front of the Torch and Marina Heights:-

They stated " the land is owned by Emaar and managed by Emaar itself"

There will not be 3 supertall towers after all it seems.

Arfie, did they confirm that none of the 3 plots would be sold in the future?

[arfie]

No I don't think they have any intention of selling this plot its the most prime plot in the marina can't see them selling it.

I expect a small 13-15 storey hotel also they mentioned the car park in front of Marina Heights is likely to stay as a car park.

[Naz UK]

Doesn't this totally contradict what they previously told you Arfie? I mean...which version are we supposed to believe?

[arfie]

Sorry Naz not much I can do if Emaar keep giving different stories. I've been trying my best to get to bottom of this and find out exactly what Emaar are doing with the plot.

[Naz UK]

^^ LOL I'm not getting at you, I appreciate your efforts greatly! I was getting at Emaar for giving conflicting reports. You said a few days ago they'd told you that they had definately sold the plots..and now they're telling you that they haven't and don't intend to. :bash: for Emaar!

:okay: to you though Arfie for being persistent!

[arfie]

Yeap they apologised for giving me inaccurate information but the Emaar manager confirmed the plot is there own and they will be managing it. I said all of us had a right to know as at the end of the day we are there customers also as we're buying in Dubai Marina.

I like many of you wanted clarification from them about what was being built there as alot of us have invested alot of money into the Torch.

[Naz UK]

^^ Great. So that puts that one to bed then. Just as well coz I was getting sick to death of the of all the speculation. Now, back to investm....er I mean The Torch.

[Dubai_Steve]

If you look at this photo and with the new information today that this plot will most likely be an Emaar development and that the car park will remain, you can see the shape of the development. To me this looks like it will be a hotel, and possibly a mall also. It is a big single plot to be used by Emaar rather than 2 towers in my opinion. The plot seems comparible in size to the central marina mall?

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/8778/image16ms.jpg

Also taking into consideration the mystery plot further back which some said may be a mall and the plot between the 2 towers (MH + TT), my feeling is that this is all part of one new big Emaar development.

[Ashka]

Area looks the size of the Grosvenor. So, it could be another hotel. However, in this location doesn't make much sense. There are several hotels close by and this will be at a disadvantage with being that far away from the beach.
Another suggested alternative is for a shopping mall. Again, a prime location with access from narrow road to the back seems another non-starter.
As I have stated elsewhere, if my source is right then it is going to high quality Damac super-tower. :weird:

[Morrismarina]

Nice picture DubaiSteve, I agree, I can see Emaar keeping all the area in front of TT low rise. Is this a fairly recent photo ? Also any idea what the large white box thing is on the Torch plot ??

[Naz UK]

^^ Hope to God it is a "Damac super-tower"! (as opposed to any other supertall) Means we'll have a good few years before any construction work is likely!

[Morrismarina]

I am absolutely convinced another supertall is not going in front of TT. You can seen an "L" shape is created going from Marina Heights to Princess then along to Infinity. Another tower in front would look terrible, I can't see Emaar wanting to spoil the Marina like this, this is why they're keeping the land for themselves. It'll match up with the restaurants etc over on the left hand side. Only my thoughts.......
I don't think any of you guys have anything to worry about who've bought a "marina view" at TT. Actually I bought round the back, got a great water view that nobody can take away...........I'm overlooking the pool !!!!
Anyway to move on.........any construction updates ? When's this live web cam being installed ?

[Ashka]

According to Emporis, the Torch is due to be completed by 2008. Is that start,middle, or end'08?
My guess is it will be running into 2009 along with OH, Princess, Infinity...

[Naz UK]

The official line on completion is June 2008 and they are allowed until December 2008 contractually. There is currently no reason to believe otherwise.

[jetsetter]

Ashka, how dare you speculate about when TT will be finished :jk:

Seriously - an unbuilt tower being built by an untried developer - surrounded by plots with no confirmed plans - not much wonder speculation always creeps back into this thread.

[Morrismarina]

It's actually being built not by an untried developer but by Dubai Civil Engineering who have successfully built approx 50 other towers in the UAE. (Funny isn't it how you didn't mention this Jetsetter) they're a very reputable company with loads of experience, so please spare us the unnecessary cynicism.
Building is I'm told right on track for the anticipated completion date of June 2008, there's no reason at this stage to start talking of delays. :)

[Dubai_Steve]

Question moved to this thread by request of Krazy (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=8425766#post8425766)

[jetsetter]

Morrismarina - I'm not going to lower myself and get involved in a pathetic immature bitching session - so lighten up.
I meant the selling company - Dubai Select and not DCE

[Krazy]

stick to discussing the Torch project ONLY in this thread please. For other discussions about possible developments in the Marina, please use the DUBAI MARINA thread.

[Morrismarina]

Fair enough Jetsetter..........apologies.........sorry, I've had a really bad day.

[Ashka]

Dubai-Steve,
Any idea what the spiders web like image, in the middle of the road, going to be?

Do you know what's happeing on A5E?

Sry about the "banal questions" Naz! :) :runaway:

[jetsetter]

No worries at all Morris :)

[MORRIS DANCER]

Nice picture DubaiSteve, I agree, I can see Emaar keeping all the area in front of TT low rise. Is this a fairly recent photo ? Also any idea what the large white box thing is on the Torch plot ??

The white box thing is the roof of Le Reve.

So now it looks like the plot issue will not thicken anymore?

That means there is space after all for that burger king :runaway:

[Morrismarina]

Thanks MorrisDancer.... it's weird I really couldn't make out what it was. I didn't realise the pic had been taken from so high up....must be from a helicopter. Great pic DubaiSteve.

[MORRIS DANCER]

I am absolutely convinced another supertall is not going in front of TT. You can seen an "L" shape is created going from Marina Heights to Princess then along to Infinity. Another tower in front would look terrible, I can't see Emaar wanting to spoil the Marina like this, this is why they're keeping the land for themselves. It'll match up with the restaurants etc over on the left hand side. Only my thoughts.......
I don't think any of you guys have anything to worry about who've bought a "marina view" at TT. Actually I bought round the back, got a great water view that nobody can take away...........I'm overlooking the pool !!!!
Anyway to move on.........any construction updates ? When's this live web cam being installed ?


Morrismarina, what is the number of your apartment that has great water veiw overlooking the pool?

BTW feedback from DS today on the pool that the design is definatly not finalised. So we could get something decent like a nice infinity pool. Also possibly more design changes on the way to improve the tower and apartment spaces even though the project manager is happy with the tower :eek2: .
The web cam is allready enstalled on site, but DS will not be submitting any pictures until they are above ground by four floors so we have to wait a bit for that. :cheers:

[MORRIS DANCER]

Thanks MorrisDancer.... it's weird I really couldn't make out what it was. I didn't realise the pic had been taken from so high up....must be from a helicopter. Great pic DubaiSteve.


No Probs,

I agree only way you get that photo like that is from hanging out of a helicopter sitting only on one cheek. Something not for me but yeah great shot.

[Morrismarina]

Many thanks for the updated DS info Morris. I've purchased 802 which I think will be just at the right height for throwing my towel out of the window at 5.30am each morning to reserve one of the sun loungers by the pool.

[MORRIS DANCER]

Cheers,
Aha we are almost neighours. I am up on 4002. My towel will probebly get blown into the pool of MH by the time it reachs the floor. I was hoping to do a nice dive bomb from my balcony thats why I am pushing for a decent pool.

BTW on the picture of the podium model it looks like the pool is not 02 side but 11 side sea facing or do I need glasses ?

[Naz UK]

Dubai-Steve,
Any idea what the spiders web like image, in the middle of the road, going to be?

Do you know what's happeing on A5E?

Sry about the "banal questions" Naz! :) :runaway:

Don't apologise to me, no skin off my nose. Apologise to Krazy who keeps dropping little hints about irrelevant questions you seem to ignore, who btw happens to be a moderator.

[Morrismarina]

Yes the model does show the sea facing side as having the pool, but this is an old model going back 12 months. The layout in my contract shows I'm definitely overlooking the pool so would assume it is correct. (Might just be worth checking with DS next time you speak to them Morris).

[MORRIS DANCER]

Ok, will do
THX for the info didnt know this was a 12 month old model. I thought it was the latest design to reflect the changes made recently to balconies and increased floor space etc.

[Ashka]

Don't apologise to me, no skin off my nose. Apologise to Krazy who keeps dropping little hints about irrelevant questions you seem to ignore, who btw happens to be a moderator.

Krazy - I apologise for NAZ's rants.

[Naz UK]

Recent site pics: May 2006. (Apologies to dial-up users).

http://i3.tinypic.com/zl5fur.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/zl2749.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/zl2809.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/zl2a04.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/zl2aky.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/zl2bgk.jpg

[dubaiflo]

no real excavation.seems like they are ready for piling.

[Ashka]

Hey Naz,
What a bummer. Damac tower looks lovely from your flat, doesn't it?
LOL

[Naz UK]

^^ Yes indeed. It's a great looking tower. Albeit not viewable from my apartment, as I will be facing such beauties as Al-Marsa, Princess and Le Reve.

[Morrismarina]

Why do Damac have to stick their name on their tower, I don't see others towers with their developers name on. Looks a bloody mess and spoils the Marina. Hope they don't so the same to the "Unamed Tower" (or whatever it is) next to Al Marsa.

[Morrismarina]

By the way Naz great pics.

[dubaiflo]

^^ they want to show ... that their 'luxury' development is now delivered.

they will remove it later on.

maybe they need it now, so that u don't notice the water on floors 16-21. :rofl:

[Naz UK]

^^ They should also advertise their 24hr Emergency telephone number up their too! So when you've lost the "Welcome Pack" in 2ft of water, you just go outside and look up for the number! :rofl: Dammit....floods are not funny, stop laughing! Dubai's developers should really learn their lessons from the leaking villas earlier this year and now this latest episode at MT.

[Morrismarina]

Didn't know about this. What caused the flood then, I heard about the ones in the Springs but how can a tower get flooded ??

[AltinD]

^^ If a hydrant pipe on the 21st floor burst.

[Naz UK]

Latest updates from Dubai Select's website:

04/05/06: Excavation in progress on the central mould.
http://i4.tinypic.com/zxqkwi.jpg

05/05/06: Close up of the insertion of caging for 1200mm pile.
http://i4.tinypic.com/zxqng3.jpg

15/05/06: The 1200mm piling continues.
http://i4.tinypic.com/zxqplj.jpg

Progress to date:
08-05-2006 – 50% of the 1200mm shoring piling completed
05-05-2006 – Dewatering and lowering of the water table commenced
29-04-2006 – Anchor stressing 1st layer Complete
26-04-2006 - Guide wall construction for 1200mm shoring piles completed
25-04-2006 – 1st Layer anchoring system complete
21-04-2006 - The 1200mm shoring piling stage officially commenced
14-04-2006 – Guide wall construction for 1200mm shoring piles commenced
12-04-2006 - Commencement of the 1st layer anchoring system
11-04-2006 - Capping beam construction complete

[doctor dubai]

seems like good progress to me.
anyone disagree?

[Ashka]

Looks like alot of Indians on a tea break to me!

[dubaiflyer]

Dubai Select should be applauded for taking the decision to keep their customers so well informed on progress. In fact.... :applause: :applause: :applause:

I only wish the other development companies would follow the DS example!

[Morrismarina]

And we're going to get a live webcam

Top :banana:

[doctor dubai]

those hard working men accused of being lazy and on a "tea break" look like they've done great work to me. hats off to them. they should be paid more rather than slagged off.

[Dubai_Steve]

Discussion going on about the 3 new Emaar towers infront of the Torch (max 36 stories):

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=347692&page=7&pp=20

[Citystyle]

those hard working men accused of being lazy and on a "tea break" look like they've done great work to me. hats off to them. they should be paid more rather than slagged off.

Tea break means no offense to the workers. Just huge promised projects that go nowere fast, while workers seem to be sitting on the site waiting for direction.

[Naz UK]

Tea break means no offense to the workers. Just huge promised projects that go nowere fast, while workers seem to be sitting on the site waiting for direction.
...But wrongly placed comment as ^^ that has never happened on the Torch site.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Which or the 1-23 floor apartments will have a view of the pool from the balcony?
12,1,2,3?

Or 1,2,3

Or 1,2

[Dr Dubai]

Two points...1) What is the relevance of them being Indian? 2)They are underworked and overpaid so are you surprised if they lack direction!

[Dr Dubai]

ha ha!!! I meant overworked and underpaid! lol!

[Naz UK]

There are plenty of places relevant to a discussion re: construction workers (The Lighthouse, the petition thread, etc)..let's stick to the Torch here please. (not least because no such problems have been reported on the Torch site.)

[scoobydoobyBUY]

We are thinking about moving to Dubai and working on the Torch construction to pay for our flat and keep an eye on things. Does anyone know what labourers might earn per hour on the Torch construction site? is accommodation provided and is there overtime?

[Ashka]

Overtime is unlimited and you'll get a daily rate, paid at the end of the following month of Sundays.
There is plenty of FREE accomodation. Climate is favourable for most of the day (between 5pm and 6am).
You can bring and drink as much tea as you like.
You should be able to save plenty and can have your money repatriated for a guaranteed best rate ever.
Good Luck!

[hawki]

Can anybody tell me what other likely costs we should expect to pay for whilst we own an appartment in the torch appart from the service charges which i understand for a 2 bedroom are likely to be about 2k per year. Are there other goverment charges, council tax property tax etc....... Iam banking on long term investment but when completion comes so are half if not more of the marina!!! Need to work out how long I can hold out should rental be slow or even non existant to start with.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Ashka, it sounds great, we needed a bit of a change...!
So I think you are saying that the hours are 6am to 5pm, that's a long day but it will be nice to work outside and I'm sure it'll keep us fit! the U.K. salary is about £20,000 if we have no skills, if we ask for £80 per (long) day would that be reasonable if the weather gets hot? I've heard that daily rates are much lower in Dubai even though apartment prices are similar to Europe? is that true?
Is there anyone in Dubai Select we could approach for a labourer job on the Torch site? maybe just a summer job to see our marvel rise from the ashes, and then back to the desk.

[Morrismarina]

What a great idea ScoobydoobyBuy.....I remember Dubai Select were looking for workers from the UK a few months ago, mainly labouring jobs, I think they put some sort of advertisement on their website. The average working day is long though at around 12 hours but the pay is really good and of course, far higher than in the UK. And outside work is not a problem as it hardly ever rains. Accomodation can be a problem but I heard DS were temporarily putting some lower skilled workers up in the Burj for a few months. Also most jobs came with a company supplied vehicle usually a choice of a BMW 530i or a Mercedes 350 CLK. I'd phone them quickly though as I heard most of the positions were already taken up but I'm sure they can find you something as you sound really keen.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Morrismarina, I'll try to call them on Tuesday. I am surprised that summer labourers get put up (even temporarily) in the Burj, as I've heard it is pricey. But I guess it's a local hotel and we could walk to work.

Just for your ears, we are hoping that once we get a foot in the door we'll be able to influence the building so that we can tear up the 'new' tiny blocked view balcony design for our apartment and build the palatial balcony which we were told we were buying! Please keep this quiet.

[dubaiflo]

^^ u don't actually believe in all that do you?

[Ashka]

Morrismarina, I'll try to call them on Tuesday. I am surprised that summer labourers get put up (even temporarily) in the Burj, as I've heard it is pricey. But I guess it's a local hotel and we could walk to work.

Just for your ears, we are hoping that once we get a foot in the door we'll be able to influence the building so that we can tear up the 'new' tiny blocked view balcony design for our apartment and build the palatial balcony which we were told we were buying! Please keep this quiet.

'Others' may want things done differently. So, just wait till you have got both feet in and camped on site!
I hear the Indians love their tea. Try keeping on your side and you'll be ok!

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Dubaiflo, what should I not believe? I reckon the hourly rate must be worth at least £10 per hour for an unskilled labourer in a tax haven like Dubai, that, taken with Dubai Select providing accommodation, plus all the overtime should mean a healthy return for our efforts this summer. And the flights are getting cheaper. Does anyone know if Dubai Select provides canteen facilities or is there somewhere closeby for some decent nosh during the siesta? I presume medical insurance is provided by DS. I guess a Dubai Select pension scheme would only apply if we stayed longer? Can someone from Dubai Select comment on the benefits in case we are getting carried away / understating?

Just look at all the happy faces in the photographs if you are not convinced that investors, workers, and our leaders Dubai Select, are just one big happy family!

[Rider]

Scooby,

Have you ever visited the planet earth by any chance?

[dubaiflo]

at least he has never been to a dubai construction site probably..

10Pounds an hour? :weird:

[Morrismarina]

Just one piece of advice ScoobydoobyBuy...............make sure you read your contract of employment before you sign it...........you're not going to believe this but, I've heard of somebody who once signed a contract without reading it first.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Dubaiflo, what is strange about £10 per hour? we all know the Dubai is fabulously wealthy, are you saying it's £20 per hour? !!!
That is pretty good even by Western standards, and I'm very happy for all those immigrants in a land surrounded by a sea of troubles.
Boy, I just wanted a change of pace for the summer, but we didn't expect to earn more than U.K. and American labourers! will there be any problem getting a work visa through Dubai Select to work on the Torch?

[zee]

^^ wierdo

[Naz UK]

Has anybody got a shovel?

[Ashka]

Has anybody got a shovel?

Naz - didn't know you were in the building trade!
Anyway, you needn't bring your own tools. I'm told Dubai has all the tools necessary.
If you love tea then that's a bonus!

[kano]

Has anybody got a shovel?

Call 00971 4 3322021 they might help!!!! :jk:

[swdc71]

investment questions strictly not permitted..........that's certainly excluded some sensible posts then....

What are you all on about???

Congratulations...you've certainly turned this site into a hub of information
I'd rather watch big brother..... (or shoot myself)

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Will The Torch support King Kong?

or would the beast prefer another tower

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Naz UK, are you Irish like meself?
Christy Moore's "don't forget your shovel if you want to go to work" is an old favourite of mine

[dubaiflo]

this thread should be closed.

too many morons.

i mean swdc71... wtf? just move ur ass outta here ...

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ Krazy - please delete all this crap!

[DUBAI]

^^I agree.


apart from this one !

Will The Torch support King Kong?

or would the beast prefer another tower

:rofl:

[Dubai-Lover]

can you morons please leave all this bullshit out of this thread

it's like a kindergarden in here :ohno:

[charlie big potatoes]

God i found this thread as the Points thread was gettin boring. What are you all on. How do you hope to attract any new intrest. Info please............................

[True Blue]

Will The Torch support King Kong?

or would the beast prefer another tower

Great idea for Dubailand. Animatronic Kong scaling a tower with pleasure flights on biplanes for the tourists. Fantastic!!

We heard it here on The Torch thread first. This thread has just become realy interesting again -------------------NOT!

[doctor dubai]

i think its fair to say that scooby dooby is expressing his/her rage (regarding being stitched up like a kipper on the question of balcony size) through the medium razor sharp satire. comedy gold.

[AltinD]

The following pick is for the ones who have a genuine interest in this building, and not for the chavs who cares only about the rental they'll sqweze from their fellow chaves. :bash:

28/05/2006

http://i4.tinypic.com/10z7dcw.jpg

[dubaiflo]

massive hole :eek:

and quite fast now.

[Naz UK]

Very impressive in terms of speed. Any idea roughly how deep they would go to accommodate 4 basement floors?

[dubaiflo]

about as deep as the hole for Marina Pinnacle is.

so a bit more needed for sure.

[AltinD]

If there are 4 basement (underground) floors, then the hole will go almost twice as deep.

[DUBAI]

How come they arent dewatering? they ust surely be below sea level?

[Morrismarina]

Great photo Altin....sorry if I'm a bit thick but what actually is "de-watering". I can't see any water in the photo.......where would the water come from and how would they stop it ??

[AltinD]

^^ Have you ever, as a child, dug a hole in the beach?

[Morrismarina]

Good explanation.........thanks.

[azimo]

guys, do we know how much of an increase %wise torch has had since introduced up til now? if anyone had any flipping done and could put this in $ or pounds that be great. thank you.

[DUBAI]

^^please ask that sort of Question here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

Anyhow, Dewatering.

its normaly acheived by driving pipes into the ground as the dig progreses and lowering the watertable before the hole reaches it.

but there arent any signs of that happening there ????

[azimo]

^^please ask that sort of Question here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

Anyhow, Dewatering.

its normaly acheived by driving pipes into the ground as the dig progreses and lowering the watertable before the hole reaches it.

but there arent any signs of that happening there ????

ups , sorry

[DUBAI]

:) not to worry.

I do see 2 hoses now. they must be a part of it.

maybe its some crazy new method that involves a lot less pipeing!

[Morrismarina]

Thanks for the info Dubai, I assume they have to seal the floor/side walls with some waterproof membrane to stop the water comming back in again ??
(Probably use a tube of silicon sealant like I put round my bath..........only joking !!!)

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Does anyone know what the 'exterior' diagonal lines are on the floor plan that connect the corner balconies (at least floors 1-23) with the bedrooms? I've been told that this is "external skin" but I have no more information. Does anyone know exactly what this is?

[Gorilla]

post the diagram here

[scoobydoobyBUY]

http://www.jeenterprises.com/newtinybalcony.jpg

[Ashka]

http://www.jeenterprises.com/newtinybalcony.jpg

Not clever design!

2nd bedroom should have direct access to bathroom instead of occupant having to go via the door in the corridor.
Any comments?

[malec]

Disagree.

Since there are 2 bathrooms, one is for one room while the other is for the general apartment. If both bathrooms were connected to the bedrooms then if I have a guest over he'd have to walk through my messy bedroom to get to the bathroom

[dubaiflo]

that is why usually a two bdr apartment has two bathrooms and one seperate "powder room".

[thedubailife]

Yes guest should be using a powder room not a main bathroom, anyway investors in the Torch must have seen that on the plans anyway.

[AltinD]

I see nothing wrong on the design. Everything is within the norm.

This is an apartment for families with kids to LIVE IN. Your intentions of renting it out as a Hotel, is irelevant to the discussion about the design.

[thedubailife]

^^ Funny post, I never been to a hotel and expected a powder room

[Naz UK]

Some 1-bed apts. do have a seperate powder room. But not the 2 beds.
Holy shit, is that V V V an advert???

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Does anybody know what the "external skin" is that appears in the contract floor plan? what lies between the skin and e.g. the main wall?
If the "external skin" appears in the floor plan then how high up does it go in relation to the apartment?

[Impy]

guys, do we know how much of an increase %wise torch has had since introduced up til now? if anyone had any flipping done and could put this in $ or pounds that be great. thank you.


I cannot believe any flipping can be taking place until Emaar have disclosed their intentions for the plot in front of TH

[Impy]

guys, do we know how much of an increase %wise torch has had since introduced up til now? if anyone had any flipping done and could put this in $ or pounds that be great. thank you.


I CANNOT BELIEVE ANY FLIPPING CAN BE GOING ON UNTIL ANYBODY KNOWS OF EMAAR'S INTENTION FOR THE PLOT IN FRONT OF THE TORCH ??

[scoobydoobyBUY]

The answer apparently is -no flipping- is or has taken place as Dubai Select are still selling apartments. You can assume your profit to date as a very big zero percent, or less when you consider the Dubai Select 1 percent commission.

[arfie]

Marina Heights 2 bed apts looking at the Marina are selling for 1.6 mil AED + - I agree one of the reasons for this is that the development is near completion. People who have Torch apartments will make good money for sure in the whole of the marina at this moment in time they offer great value.

[hawki]

hi arfie can you tell me apart from the service charges what other costs can we expect to pay whilst owning property in Dubai-I need to budget for the wait we;ll all have until these appartments can rent out considering there are going to be two hundred towers in the marina many finishing at the same time!

[Ashka]

I see nothing wrong on the design. Everything is within the norm.

This is an apartment for families with kids to LIVE IN. Your intentions of renting it out as a Hotel, is irelevant to the discussion about the design.

I still think a door from the bedroom would satisfy those in the bedroom and existing door from hallway would satisfy guests and sundry.

[Rider]

The answer apparently is -no flipping- is or has taken place as Dubai Select are still selling apartments. You can assume your profit to date as a very big zero percent, or less when you consider the Dubai Select 1 percent commission.

Hmmm - zero % profit to date - I suspect not.
Someone offered me 8% premium on my apartment on 54th floor a couple months ago, to which I declined.

If Dubai Select were launching the Torch today - you can bet your ass the prices would be quite a bit higher than the original prices.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Rider, ask Dubai Select if any flipping has occurred. The answer will almost certainly be no unless you get a different answer to the one I received. And they would be aware, as they would have charged 1 percent of the transaction.

Who offered you a genuine 8 percent premium? Don't forget that the story from DS is that 90 percent of the apartments have been sold (it was something like this in January as well!) therefore there are quite a few left for sale at no flipping premium.

So I would say based on this that anyone reselling at the moment would make a loss.

[Rider]

Scooby,
I don't know whether or not flipping has occurred - all i know is that someone who got to hear about my apartment (which is a high up marina facing) offered me 8% 2 months ago.
DS told me 2 days ago that TT was 95% sold. There are a handful of 2 bed sea and marina views left and a few 3 beds which DS acknowledge will take a bit longer to shift.
It is very early days for flipping - all we have is a hole in the ground. Once we see something more tangible and when Emaar's plans for the plots in front become known - expect things to happen.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Speaking of hole in the ground getting bigger in size (!! gulp), is there any protection anywhere for current Torch investors? what would stop Dubai Select from declaring themselves bankrupt and doing a runner with all the money, or alternatively, simply building on the cheap? (e.g. the corner balcony structural walls are going to be huge now, completely different to what was depicted in the brochures...presumably bigger means considerably cheaper walls)

[Rider]

Scooby, that's a bit like developing a fear of flying after your plane has taken off.

I've now paid 50% of my apartment and I aint gonna lose sleep about DS going bankrupt.
Sure there's a risk and it is possible (albeit unlikely given DS are part of Stott group) but it's the nature of the beast with off-plan purchasing.

[Krazy]

Which part of "no investment Q's" dont you people get?

[Rider]

Which part of "no investment Q's" dont you people get?

Sorry if I upset anyone - looks like thread is the wrong place for me so I'll leave you guys to it.

[Krazy]

I dont mean to shoo you off... please use the following thread for your general investment related questions

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

[Naz UK]

Just got back from a meeting with Dubai Select today. Cannot give any details...but I am very happy :-). All i'm gonna say is "I have no doubts about the ambitions of this company...." :-X cannot say any more!!! But im very impressed..and very happy. :)

[Morrismarina]

That's nice to know Naz. I haven't personally meet the people for DS myself but the vibes I have always had are that the company is very well run and I have been very happy with them from day one. Members section of website and updates are terrific, very few developers give this sort of communication.
Just wish I had a bit more cash to buy another property.

[Nasrawi]

its great this tower has happy customers but i dont like the architecture..... also "princess" tower. they are just tall and nothing special in the design........ for practical use not for looks

i dont like the facade in that model with light blue boxes

[Naz UK]

I beg to disagree! The Torch is one of the best looking residential towers in the whole of Dubai. That's why I chose it!!!

Models can hardly be taken as 100% accurate reflections of the real thing. Just wait another couple of years and then see if you like it or not.

[charlie big potatoes]

Just got back from a meeting with Dubai Select today. Cannot give any details...but I am very happy :-). All i'm gonna say is "I have no doubts about the ambitions of this company...." :-X cannot say any more!!! But im very impressed..and very happy. :)
Grow up Naz and share your info. Thats what forums are about. Seems like your easily pleased. Wouldnt be a hotel would it.

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Nazzy dude, what exactly did you choose? The original Torch which Dubai Select had on all their brochures, websites, etc, (which was a really a work of art), or the new less jazzy Torch with the big structural walls?
Surely you were not aware of the current Torch design when you signed the contract (in Jul 05 I believe?), was it already decided at that time and known to a select audience?

Or are you simply saying that no matter what Dubai Select do to the Torch you will be on cloud nine!!! that's a great way to be Nazzy (I see you are a registered drug user)!!


I beg to disagree! The Torch is one of the best looking residential towers in the whole of Dubai. That's why I chose it!!!

Models can hardly be taken as 100% accurate reflections of the real thing. Just wait another couple of years and then see if you like it or not.

[Krazy]

Actually the design hasnt changed at all... I realised the model is just badly built.. but if u compare the features of the model to that in the renders they match... I have no doubts the Torch will be beautiful on completion... probably one of the top 5 best looking in marina along with infinity and ocean heights

[Morrismarina]

Scooby why don't you just simply take the full refund that DS have offered you and get out of The Torch ? Why spend all your time being bitter and unhappy, 100% negative all the time and slagging DS off at every possibly opportunity. You've said not one good thing about the Torch. Take the money and get out of it for everybody's sake.
(No doubt you'll give me some ranting reply....could you do this in the investment thread please http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280373

[scoobydoobyBUY]

Hi Krazy lets pray that somehow you are right, and that the new design will be as fabulous as the original design on which we based our purchase. But I doubt it very much.

For sure there will be quite obvious differences in the appearance that will probably in my view take away from the fine building that Dubai Select were advertising everywhere for 1 year almost. It will be less pointed going towards the sky and more square. There are major changes to the structural walls on all four corners, i.e. they are now going to be much wider and bigger (presumably this helps cut costs for DS maximising profit).
You will see this big difference in the following two plans:

Original structural walls (balcony):

http://www.jeenterprises.com/originalcorner_struc_walls.jpg

Actual current structural walls (balcony):
http://www.jeenterprises.com/newcorner_struc_walls.jpg

You will also notice in the latter the new "external skin" which is the line connecting the balcony structural walls to the bedroom walls. It does not appear in the original balcony / corner design as the balcony itself filled this space. Unfortunately neither Dubai Select nor people in this forum have helped yet to explain what this is and how high it goes. People who bought property in the Torch will see this in the contract floor plan that they signed.


Actually the design hasnt changed at all... I realised the model is just badly built.. but if u compare the features of the model to that in the renders they match... I have no doubts the Torch will be beautiful on completion... probably one of the top 5 best looking in marina along with infinity and ocean heights

[Naz UK]

Grow up Naz and share your info. Thats what forums are about. Seems like your easily pleased. Wouldnt be a hotel would it.
Woah! Potato man! Put your dummy back in and calm down! All I meant is that as a result of my meeting, i'm very satisfied at the ambitions of Dubai Select. There's nothing to tell, and even if there was, i'm not an idiot to breach certain ethics of confidentiality on a public forum, unlike some here. Call me old fashioned if you may. But that's the way it is.

[doctor dubai]

when you buy off plan, the possibility of modifications is clearly written into the contract. scoobydooby is extremely naive. the overall thing looks fine to me, and building continues. sweet.

[Morrismarina]

Apologies for this question....I know it has probably been covered off before in an early thread but I can't find it. Does anybody know where the railway stop will be in relation to the Torch ? I know it's going to have a Marina stop somewhere but wondered how far it was away from TT ??? And is the railway still scheduled to complete in 2009 ??

[GoDubai!]

Apologies for this question....I know it has probably been covered off before in an early thread but I can't find it. Does anybody know where the railway stop will be in relation to the Torch ? I know it's going to have a Marina stop somewhere but wondered how far it was away from TT ??? And is the railway still scheduled to complete in 2009 ?? See this link (http://mag218topics.blogspot.com/2006/05/mag-218-progress-construction-news-and.html) and scroll down toward the end of the post.

[Krazy]

that map looks fake

[GoDubai!]

The map isn't fake. If you click on it it will show a full map showing all of the proposed metro stations throughout Dubai.

[Morrismarina]

Many thanks GoDubai. Looks like the Torch is placed about half way between the two stops - Dubai Marina and the University. Looks like a couple of minutes walk that's all.

[DUBAI]

Woah! Potato man! Put your dummy back in and calm down! All I meant is that as a result of my meeting, i'm very satisfied at the ambitions of Dubai Select. There's nothing to tell, and even if there was, i'm not an idiot to breach certain ethics of confidentiality on a public forum, unlike some here. Call me old fashioned if you may. But that's the way it is.


Apparently a lot of there staff have left over the last six months, as the head of the company mislead them on a number of issiues, mainly there concerning remuneration. one of them is a friend of a friend. anyhow, i dont want to worry eveyone, bu isnt this a bit worrying, the way the guy who runs this company goes about business?

[Naz UK]

Apparently a lot of there staff have left over the last six months, as the head of the company mislead them on a number of issiues, mainly there concerning remuneration. one of them is a friend of a friend. anyhow, i dont want to worry eveyone, bu isnt this a bit worrying, the way the guy who runs this company goes about business?

yeah, but a friend of a friend of a friend told me that they give a way free ferraris to the top sales ppl. Isn't it refreshing that a company has such sales incentives for their staff??

Meanwhile...back to the Torch...

For those asking about dewatering, from the Dubai Select construction update:

05-05-2006 – Dewatering and lowering of the water table commenced

So its well underway.

[DUBAI]

well i do actualy know the guy and i will probably see him on wednesday.

will get the lowdown on DS then.

[Nasrawi]

I beg to disagree! The Torch is one of the best looking residential towers in the whole of Dubai. That's why I chose it!!!

Models can hardly be taken as 100% accurate reflections of the real thing. Just wait another couple of years and then see if you like it or not.

i just noticed that i didnt really see a good rendering of the torch. there is only a photo of the model in the first post of this thread...... does anyone have a good rendering?

im sure the facade will turn out nicer but in that model i dont like how they have light and dark contrasts in boxes over the sides

[Morrismarina]

I wouldn't take too much notice of sales staff leaving DS. I've worked for numerous companies including major banks and mortgage companies. There is always a high turnover of sales people, claiming they were promised this and that... their targets have been increased, commisson hasn't been calculated properly. It's the nature of sales......plus some people aren't that good at it and will always gripe that they weren't treated properly. I doubt the staff leaving DS are any different to many others I've encountered, so I wouldn't take too much notice of any info that comes along. Anyway this has no relevance whatsoever to the construction of The Torch and shouldn't be discussed in this thread.......we keep getting off track here.