Name: The Torch
Location: Dubai Marina
Floors: 84
Height: 345 m
Use: Residential

http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/media/images/torch.jpg

updated emporis accordingly

if look closely on the pic, the tower is right at the place of EMAAR/SAHM centre:) looks funny. hope this tower will be built. its AMAZING

Are you guys sure its going to be 345 meters ?

this is what the website says and the apartments are already for sale

paultaylorworld - it would be fantastic if you could provide us some names of contractors

how many floors exactly?

Completion end 2007. Emaar building in front of the Tower has planning for 12 storeys eventually.

Best Sea Views will be at the back of the building obviously higher up.

www.dubaiselect.co.uk

So will the Marina views be better or the Sea view higher up in the building ?

Architects and Main contractors are Khatib and Alami www.khatibalami.com (one of the biggest in the UAE)

80 Floors at the moment and definitely 345 metres

where did the 84 come from then?

can you give us a short list?
G+3 car park+70 res+hc or something, just that we know how many floors the tower will have
how many basements?

Front of the building and the right hand side that faces the shopping mall and Marina Heights will have the best views (in my opinion).

These will be direct Marina views.

Are you referring to 05 or 04 apartments ?

Completion end 2007. Emaar building in front of the Tower has planning for 12 storeys eventually.

Best Sea Views will be at the back of the building obviously higher up.

www.dubaiselect.co.uk

i assume the contract will explicitly state the size of the building in front of the tower? as well as stating that the sea or marina view will be guaranteed?

furthermore, the last time i spoke to Select someone told me completion end of 08, how comes u have brought it forward one year?
What provisions will the contract have for delayed completion?

3 Car parking
2 retail + Healthclub and Lobby
68 residential
7 Higher inc maintenance floors

All the 6,7 and 8 apartments Marina facing have now sold out.
Still have 04 and 05 at the moment.

wow its selling that quick ? 05's are more expensive than 04 so I guess they give better views are my correct ?

tallest block on the planet tallest block on the planet :D

....6,7 and 8 of the type 1 on floors 6-21.

The 2 beds on 23- 53 are still available

yes paul refferring to the 2 beds which are obviously higher up. Will the 05 or 04's get the best view ?

2 bed floor 23-53 best view would be the 04 or the 05. If you look at the floor plan the balconies discect the corner.

I think people have a right to a second opinion:

a/ A reliable (i.e. from a powerful Emirati family - his father is a Sheikh) source has told me that The Torch has actually been for sale for over 3 months already (perhaps only in Dubai). That is the reason so many are sold out already. Don't listen to hype about 'only a few left' etc. these are typical tricks.
b/ The same source told me not to buy an apartment in this building as the owners/developers are not 'respectible' (his words, not mine)
c/ It is quite possible that if they do not sell enough apartments or buyers drop out that building work will stop as they do not have sufficient financial backing to complete the tower without pre-selling all (or most of) the apartments - again, his opinion, not mine. If you don't think this can happen, look how behind the Wind Towers are due to insufficient funding.
d/ The views of the sea-facing apartments in the Marina Heights WILL be effected (but the tower won't be as wide as it appears in the picture above) however don't forget the towers to be built alongside the Al Marsa tower ... they are tall as well so you may not get better views from the Torch (hence them saying buy at the back of the building)
e/ Completion date far more likely to be 2008 than 2007
f/ Dubai Select are a brand new company, never filed accounts with Companies House and therefore it is impossible to know whether they will be around in 1 or 2 years! I would always buy through a well established agent or direct.
g/ Notice how they say "80 floors *at the moment*"!!!!!

Am sure PaulTaylor will scoff at my remarks and dismiss them but he's the one trying to get your money ... not me!

An interesting debate.

I cant agree with your point C, AL MILLION as if they did have financial problems they would not be able to offer the 15 year payment plan themselves. What you have said below you could say for most buildings in Dubai. I've spoken to some friends in Dubai who are estate agents and they say this is in a cracking location on the mouth of the Marina.

Dubai Select were the first company in the UK to get involved with Armada Towers which was a big success then every estate agent in the UK was involved in trying to sell Armada Towers.

al million , the reason why i trust in that tower is the fact that it is built by khatib&alami, so i guess i will happen how it is supposed to.

i don't even believe the torch was for sale already , because nobody here knew about that where i am working at the moment. ( engel&voelkers, biggest real estate company in europe) .

dubaiselect isn't that new actually. even my colleagues know about it for some time.and how arfie said about armada towers, right!

2007, you're right almillion, 2008 is more realistic.another point you are right is that never,never , nearly all apts are sold until now.
those times have gone , believe me. that is a typical hype trick on the market.

but i wonder why you want to defend the marina heights here ? (d) ? there is no need for that...

FACTUAL INFROMATION

a) Torch went on sale April 29th Pre release in UK Only. Not currently being sold in Dubai. Currently sold over 100 units. Hardly a few left as only officially launched on Sunday.

b) Who is the secret unnamed source ....possibly an agent?

c) As you have never bought a plot on the Marina you would not know about the commitment or the budgets?

d) As you have bought in Marina Heights I understand the 'sour grapes'!

e) How would you know the completion date. I have it here on the build schedule?

f) Dubai Select were formed over 18 months ago and are part of a larger company with over 10 years trading. Currently operate out of 6000 sq ft in Wilmslow. You are very welcome to visit our showroom.

g) Just another pointless negative comment.

Please deal in facts not comments from a friend of a friends aunties uncle. That is called 'hearsay'!

Happy to answer anymore FACTS?

If they sell out most of the apartments fairly quickly then the 30% deposit will probably be enough to build most of this thing. Then then money from the payment plans starts to roll in in 1 years time (before completion) for finishing costs. The developer then gets the rest of his investments back over 15 years at a good interest rate. Altought some will pay 100% before completion because they can get mortgages at a lower rate.

But isnt the above practice standard for most towers in Dubai (and other cities) rather than having all the money ready up front. Seems that the developer is taking an educated risk to make this thing but due to its location and payment plan will probaby work out ok for them. Only the height remains the issue. ie. the developer may ge tgreedy and add another 10 floors.

Dubai Steve totally disagree with you!! There are not many other towers out there if any that have a payment plan as available for the Torch. Most towers in Dubai want full money by completion and finance in Dubai is a nightmare for those living in uk and even if someone does get approved for finance the interest rates are ridicoulously high.

Currently sold over 100 units.

So at 30% deposit this means thay have around $10 million already. Enough to start construction once the 30% payment reaches them - which also happens to be the build start date.

Tamweel and HSBC give good interest rates (less than torch developer anyway)
Finance is easy to get if you can afford the payments without taking rental income into the equation

Yeah HSBC only do loans on a few properties. Tamweel the same interest rates are pretty high though! The torch loan works out at about 6% not bad!

paultaylorworld, who is the developer of the torch?
not builder, but developer?

Torch Tower 345 meters where as the Princess Tower is 340. So this tower is going to be taller than Princess Tower! WOW!! These will out do Marina Heights then!

Torch Tower 345 meters where as the Princess Tower is 340. So this tower is going to be taller than Princess Tower! WOW!! These will out do Marina Heights then!

lol, great statement...

Dubaiflo- The Developer of the Torch is Dubai Select LLC

Lets make this simple and CLEAR... paul taylor is a reliable agent from the UK, this project is 100% legit, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They ACTUALLY enjoy an EXCELLENT reputation in the UK which is being now brought to Dubai and they WILL be very successful.

AlMillion please let your source know that he is welcome to visit the DubaiSelect showroom AS paultaylor said in the UK. I openly invite also anyone to prove paultaylors facts WRONG.

Lets be professional and not BASH hard working developers and agents and their projects.

How easy will it be to rent out this apartment in your view when complete. Will be interested in Paul's view on this too. Are Dubai Select going to have a letting office in Dubai ?

In my opinion it would make a good rental property as its in a prime location and the building itself looks stunning... Paul could answer the % return he estimates? Maybe 8-10%?

Re Rentals.

As you can see the Torch has one of the best locations on the marina so rental demand should be high.

Dubai Select LLC will be looking after rentals.

Lets make this simple and CLEAR... paul taylor is a reliable agent from the UK, this project is 100% legit, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They ACTUALLY enjoy an EXCELLENT reputation in the UK which is being now brought to Dubai and they WILL be very successful.

AlMillion please let your source know that he is welcome to visit the DubaiSelect showroom AS paultaylor said in the UK. I openly invite also anyone to prove paultaylors facts WRONG.

Lets be professional and not BASH hard working developers and agents and their projects.

ok ragga, how much are they paying you?

My interest is with Dubai and specifically this development and not in paultaylorworld or the merits of his organisation however in answer to Almillion concerns...

I have dealt with a number of Dubai property agents including Dubai Select who I met at a roadshow over a year ago, and who I have found to be an extremely thorough and professional organisation.

But back to what is of interest, the torch.

I have received a load of pre-relapse info from Dubai Select including the Tech Spec flyer and also floor plans that contain the khatib&Alami watermark. As I understand it the tower is 345metre's in height, and has 74 floors 68 of which are residential. The last 3 bed appear on floor 71, then I understand there to be a maintenance floor before a final 2 floors containing 4 duplex penthouses.

I am guessing that the confusion on on the amount of floors and the height is from either people in the know using the height of the spire/torch thing to promote the towers height or from people knowing the height of this spire guessing the number of floors??

My source is not an agent, it is someone from an EXTREMELY wealthy and respected family in the UAE who has my best interests in mind. I won't mention names as i did not ask him whether I could post the information he gave me here.

I think it is laughable that you dismiss my comments - I know far more than you might think and have many good contacts in Dubai. I, in fact considered buying a plot in the Marina myself. Perhaps you should consider that I am in fact not an idiot, or bitter, or offering hearsay ... agents, like you, were trying to sell me apartments in the Wind Towers for several months. Look where that would have got me. Agents tend not to have their customers interests at heart ... otherwise, I suggest you would be concerned about what I have posted here rather than dogmatic and dismissive.

Regarding the Torch's wonderful 'payment plans' this is an old trick that anyone who's got experience with credit organisations would see straight through. The company behind the development goes to a bank with all their signed contracts & deposit money and gets them to factor those contracts (e.g. they'll get up to 90% of the total contract value up front from the bank/lender - the bank/lender then takes the responsibility of collecting the payments) so they can build the tower. Its like "buy now, pay next year", its just a sales technique.

If you'd seen the Marina Heights thread you would see that I am considering selling at a 15% premium after just 8 months and a 30% deposit (six figure GBP profit). There are no sour grapes whatsoever. I think i can struggle by living in Monaco until I find another good investment ...

Quoting completion dates from pieces of paper is incredibly naive - everyone with any experience knows that even the best managed projects tend to be late. Balfour Beatty a multi-billion pound construction company with decades of experience are managing the Marina Heights and they're only just ahead of schedule. I'm sure i could dig out some statistics for the average delays incurred in property developments if you'd like proof - i have a friend who sells project management training!

I have an apartment in the UK bigger than your showroom/office - so what does that prove?

Do contracts for purchasing in The Torch guarantee the height, number of floors, floor space, residency in Dubai, etc.?

Again, I reiterate, I have nothing to gain from posting these messages whereas certain members here are trying to encourage people to part with their money. I know who I'd take with a pince of salt.

So AlMillion which projects in Dubai would you recomend then ? I still dont agree with your statements regarding the finance is easy to arrange if that is the case why havent lots of other developments offered the same thing. This plot of the TORCH is one of the best in the Marina and will offer excellent views.

werid , over at ssp`s diagram , it says its going to be 385 meters !!!!

whereever they got this from
dubaiselect says 345m http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk

I believe DubaiSelect are saying the plot the tower will be on is directly behind Al Almeera and Emirates Crown ... so the views won't be that great as it is literally just across the road from them (and they're close together). They are between The Torch and the sea ... The Al Almeera is supposed to be 90 floors and the Emirates Crown 64 floors. As they have said, views from the side facing Media City are probably going to be the best ... and those facing the Marina, obviously.

Your view down the Marina will be slightly obscured by the Marina Terrace and the Marina Tower (again right next to each other) as it isn't quite in line with the 4km length of the Marina.

This shows its position very well:

http://www.tp.spt.fi/~jukarkil/uae/marina/marina_d017.gif

The thing about Marina developments is that you will almost always have to compromise as everyone is going to be building bigger, better towers. Emaar are supposedly managing the towers so they all get reasonable views.

My advice to you is to buy in a building which has already broken ground level and gives you a guarantee for what you get (i.e. they are penalised if they change your layout, floor level, etc.). I've heard many horror stories about peoples' apartments shrinking in size! For some reason many towers in the Marina have halted at the foundations. (Al Almeera, Emirates Crown, Ocean Heights to name a few)

You can't go wrong with developers like Damac, Emaar, etc. but another good sign is when a bank like HSBC will provide a mortgage or the contractors are well known outside of Dubai.

Ask a lot of questions, for example what is the interior specification? Is it in the contract? If they can't tell you what materials they will be using they probably haven't orderd them and so may have to cut back on quality should prices rise between now and when they finish (which is likely!).

Just be careful - when i first went to Dubai I got carried away as well with all the hype and excitement and bought two apartments from DAMAC on my credit card! I sold them at a small profit within a month, but the point is to not rush in ... i spent several months talking to people between that and ordering the Marina Heights apartment.

So basically shop around, do your research, ask hard questions and ignore hype, pressure, hard selling, etc.. At the end of the day, the Marina is just the beginning of Dubai's developments! The Waterfront, as one example, is many many times larger!

As i said, don't rush in - try and get opinions from people other than sales agents / developers.

correct, the torch will hardly offer seaview apartments
the tower is 345m tall, but has a gigantic roof feature, which mean the top floor is at a height of maybe 260m if not lower

even if you live on the top floor you will not be able to look over al marsa, emirates crown and princess towers
you will just see the sea partially through the towers.
there is no chance though to see the palm jumeirah between le reve and princess tower. the angle is not the best

marina view is ok, but just like you've said it's not as good as marina heights due to marina terrace, marina tower and roshana tower blocking th view down to the end of the marina

the torch isn't much better than the marina heights actually.
actually the marina heights might be better concerning views.
but what pisses me off, is what emaar is doing.
every tower in the marina , in the upper marina acutally, the area we are talking aboutl, offers only one direction with really good views, except the marinascape actually.
better planning would have been reasonable.

Oh wow great to have some many detail details on this one
Intersting Debate over the last few pages. It is going to be in a very dense blocl and many will have restricted views. But it then becomes city views and great location.

the marina is far the best location i guess, heard that so many times now, and i am totally convinced now.

Al Millions- Considering your distaste for agents, who are you going to get to sell your Marina Heights for you?

You still have not told us which projects you would recommend.....other than Marina Heights?

Which side of Marina Heights have you bought on?

Re your comment on finishes and detail in the contract, you are free to view the finishes and contract at any time. The Torch is high end finishing ie. granite/ Marble

I am yet to see a Tower on the Marina with better value for money, location and payment plan than the TORCH!

The developers have sold my apartment actually - and i bought it direct. I don't have distaste for all agents, just those that behave in an unprofessional and clearly biased manor who are willing to exploit customers for short term gain. There are many like that unfortunately - one told me not to buy an apartment in the Marina, saying i would not make money. The reason was they were only geared up to sell stuff on the Palm Islands.

Send me the contract to almillion@gmail.com and I will have my lawyer go through it and I will post his findings here. Feel free to tell us the 10-year old parent company's name and I will also post that company's credit rating, profitability, etc. here. Surely you don't mind.

If you'd have an ounce of business acumen you'd have been far less defensive and tried to sell me a penthouse (or two!) - instead you're trying to draw me into a petty argument when all I am doing is offering everyone a non-biased perspective of this tower.

Personally I'd say that the Al Marsa tower has the best location by far, but of course it is likely to be more expensive as it is actually being built!!!

Having studied the floor plans of the TORCH in detail if your located on the 05 23rd floor above I believe you will get an excellent view and if you go out to the balcony and look to the right you will get a partial sea view also. The map provided by AL Million below I believe is incorrect Princess Tower should be located on that also.

^ Al Amira Tower = Princess Tower

What other projects are there in Dubai that are in an equally good location with good payment plan ?

The payment plan is only an advantage if you can't get a mortgage from one of the major banks in Dubai (and if you can't then you should be careful you're not taking a risk financially).

PS That map has been compiled collectively by people here for well over a year, I believe.

Sorry totally disagree with you Al Million the banks in dubai are a nightmare. Getting mortgage in Dubai for UK residents is not easy.

I have been reading this forum very closely as I am very interested and excited by the Torch. As I was by Marina Heights which I personally chose not to run with.

I have enjoyed reading both this forum and this site which has provided me with information above and beyond that that can be found in a sales brochure. Especially with respect to the location of all the developments.

However I would, as Al million stated check all of the information here as well as that in the sales documentation is confirmed in the purchase agreement and contracts you need to sign.

However I do believe this forum is becoming more focussed on the individuals than the Development itself.

I do not see how people with a ‘passion’ for Marina Heights could see so many negatives in a neighbour’s location that is 200m up the marina and nearer the beach.

However without wishing to personally get drawn into this argument myself, I think Marina Heights is fabulous development, and unfortunately I was not really in a position to fully take advantage of that particular opportunity, however the growth that Al million is said to have had on his investment is a further testament to what is happening in Dubai and cements my belief in this area of the Marina.

The Torch, which personally I prefer, largely because of the location and the floor plan but essentially as for me the fact that it compliments my finances, gets my vote.

As such I shall be purchasing in this development and through Dubai Select who have always been brilliant with me and who have, and I believe will continue to work with me from project to project.

I think one of the many great things about Dubai is the choice.

Naturally people have opinions and naturally people will agree and disagree, and naturally people will be passionate about where they have spent there money!! However I believe Dubai and also the Marina itself is a fantastic investment opportunity, a view I think we all share, it just a case of picking what is best for you as an individual.

Not everyone is the same!!

I am not a future owner to discuss purchase plans, so I'm more interested on building itself. I hope the designing work will be finished soon, the financial and legal maters (if any) will be settled, so the construction can start soon after.

I like the design (from the render) more then many other towers in the aerea, and as a non-buyer, this is the most important aspect for me. :)

Roggerio is the location of this tower better than the Marina Heights ? Or is Marina Heights better located or are they both equal ?

Rogerio, I'm not sure how you can prefer the location after reading my post about the location ... you'd be much better off in Al Marsa, Al Almeera or Emirates Crown, rather than hidden behind them.

It seems a simple argument to me.

If you want a marina view go for The Torch or Marina Heights. If you want a sea view then go for Al Marsa, Al Almeera or Emirates Crown.

In truth there is not a huge difference in location! PERSONALLY, I prefer the Location of the Torch, it is closer to mouth of the Marina and also the beach, and as a collective the varying aspects probably offer more.

This is not to say that I would not prefer some views from some aspects in Marina Heights as Marina Heights does great views out the front across the length of the Marina.

Although FPD Savills whom I have spoken with believe all these aspects to be sold.

So from a buyers point of view I would have to say The Torch, however as I’m about to spend my money there I could be deemed biased so from a raw enthusiasts point of view I’d welcome AltinD opinion.

FACTUAL INFROMATION

a) Torch went on sale April 29th Pre release in UK Only. Not currently being sold in Dubai. Currently sold over 100 units. Hardly a few left as only officially launched on Sunday.

b) Who is the secret unnamed source ....possibly an agent?

c) As you have never bought a plot on the Marina you would not know about the commitment or the budgets?

d) As you have bought in Marina Heights I understand the 'sour grapes'!

e) How would you know the completion date. I have it here on the build schedule?

f) Dubai Select were formed over 18 months ago and are part of a larger company with over 10 years trading. Currently operate out of 6000 sq ft in Wilmslow. You are very welcome to visit our showroom.

g) Just another pointless negative comment.

Please deal in facts not comments from a friend of a friends aunties uncle. That is called 'hearsay'!

Happy to answer anymore FACTS?

I can vouch for the first point - as someone who had enquired about Armada Towers and JBR via Dubai Select I was on the pre-release mailing list and got to know about The Torch at the end of April, if not before. So, for example, anyone here who has been trying to buy the type 6 two-bed apartments (IMHO the best aspect) on the highest floors that offer this apartment type will pretty quickly discover they're already gone - because I reserved 5206 and 5306 weeks ago...

While I appreciate that there's risk involved in buying any off-plan development, the 15-year payment plan does make me feel a little more secure - if the developer wasn't well capitalised, they would surely be unable to offer this facility.

With respect to Al Million I think my last post must have crossed in the night with yours..!!

Tho it still explains why I PERSONALLY prefer this LOCATION over Marina Heights. I do not doubt that the aspect and view of your particular apartment(s) are fabulous. (quite probably the very same ones I have enquired about!!)

I do not doubt your knowledge of this market, and I have taken a lot of your comments on board, and think purchasing in Marina Heights is a great investment. However I am a totally different entity from yourself, I am not in a position to purchase plot as you indicated you are considering so for me my decision is more about the individual apartment itself, its particular layout, the size, the price, the method of payment and the individual apartment view. In conclusion, I want something on the Marina, I like this area of the Marina (as you do), and the Torch offers me something.

DavidR – Yes I agree 100%

And with respect to Mistermark, yes 06 all the way for me.

Why the 06 over the 05 ?

I guess we're all talking about the higher 2 beds.

There both pretty similar and priced the same, my gut feeling was that an 06 would probably have a better views out of the mouth of the marina, but looking at it again the 05 may actually be as good and will probably have a nicer marina view. I also like the 3's and 4's?

some people are saying a lot of bullshit here, i am very sorry, i don't want to offend anyone but...

I am yet to see a Tower on the Marina with better value for money, location and payment plan than the TORCH!

:hahaha: marinascape... al seef... marina crown..

btw al million please tell paultaylorworld which apartment you bought. :)

The Torch looks a far better building than the AL SEEF and Marina Crown.

Marina Scape is very nice + extremely high quality.

I guess that none of you guys are up for the Burj then?

The Torch looks a far better building than the AL SEEF and Marina Crown.

Marina Scape is very nice + extremely high quality.

you buy your apt based on how the tower looks?


dubai if i'd had enough money, suddenly i would be with you ;)

i saw the floor plans of the burj apts, just great.

Why the 06 over the 05 ?

I think you could make a case for either having the best views in that 05 will have a slightly longer aspect over the marina, but at the same time a part of the balcony will look inland towards the golf course and SZR whereas the 06 will look towards the mouth of the marina.
IMHO either a 5 or a 6 on a high floor is a good bet for someone who wants direct marina views in a high spec tower.
On another matter, I also enquired about a penthouse, which would have been for my own use as opposed to a buy-to-let. Apparently they're about 3500 sq ft and the price includes the developers fitting it out to the individual customer's spec. I decided not to go for it in the end because the price per square foot was a lot higher than some of the other developments (I see 1000 DHS/sq ft as the benchmark), whereas in some of the other towers the penthouses are actually cheaper per square foot.
Is there anyone here that's buying a Torch penthouse, or at least thinking of doing so?

So in a way both 05 and 06 will give good views. I still believe from the window of the bedrooms of 05 you'll get to see the mouth of the Marina due to the way the apartments in the Torch are designed.

I think you could make a case for either having the best views in that 05 will have a slightly longer aspect over the marina, but at the same time a part of the balcony will look inland towards the golf course and SZR whereas the 06 will look towards the mouth of the marina.
IMHO either a 5 or a 6 on a high floor is a good bet for someone who wants direct marina views in a high spec tower.
On another matter, I also enquired about a penthouse, which would have been for my own use as opposed to a buy-to-let. Apparently they're about 3500 sq ft and the price includes the developers fitting it out to the individual customer's spec. I decided not to go for it in the end because the price per square foot was a lot higher than some of the other developments (I see 1000 DHS/sq ft as the benchmark), whereas in some of the other towers the penthouses are actually cheaper per square foot.
Is there anyone here that's buying a Torch penthouse, or at least thinking of doing so?

I spoke to them about a penthouse, but the figures for a buy to let don't add up.

you buy your apt based on how the tower looks?


I agree, there's no need to be so shallow. Some of the best apartments in Dubai are in the most ugliest buildings.
http://www.projectdubai.com/projects/prj2_10.jpg
http://www.projectdubai.com/property/thumb/prj16_4.jpg

I spoke to them about a penthouse, but the figures for a buy to let don't add up.

I agree. In most Dubai towers the penthouses are cheaper per square foot than the smaller apartments, which seems sensible to me because (i) people expect a good deal if they buy volume, (ii) there's less demand, not least because there's not much call from the rental market for apartments of that size and value and (iii) the building costs are lower (only one kitchen, aircon control system etc in one big apartment compared to four if the same space was divided into 1bed apts).

For some strange reason Dubai Select want around 1300 DHS per square foot for a penthouse whereas they're asking almost exactly 1000 DHS, which IMHO is the going rate in the Marina, for the 2beds.

I'm hoping they'll be stuck with the penthouses then I'll go back with a silly offer... who knows, they may even accept it.

Its hard to know! There is such a feeding frenzy around the marina at the moment, especially with agents marketing the apartments back in the uk, that they might just get someone to pay the DHS5m plus for these penthouses.
Personally I am in two minds whether to buy a high up 2 bed in The Torch (now that all the good ones are gone) or to go with some of the leaseback hotel investments being offered.
One way or the other I will need to decide soon.

which leaseback hotel investments?

Dubai Properties are doing one at Business Bay, 1m dirhams payment and they lease back the room from you for 25years, paying 80% nett profit for the room back to you at the end of each trading year.
Or to put it simply you get approx. 9-11% return on your investment. The only problem with this one is they want 50% now by June and the hotel will not open untill 2007.

You should get 9 - 15% for a 2 bed on the torch.

yeah but it wont be easy cos of the amount properties that are gonna be available from 2007-8.

9% would be good if that could be achieved but gonna be tough.

There is for and against each type of investment>
A buy to let apartment: The property will appreciate in value each year, and if you can meet the mortgage or most of it with the nett rental income you should be ok, but remember with an apartment you will have to pay someone to manage it, (15% of the rent), you will have to pay service charges, which by all accounts will be very high at the marina and you will have to replace the furniture every few years and rents will start dropping when thousands of 2-bed apartments start coming on to the market in a few years time
Hotel investment: After the initial purchase, you pay or do nothing more, just collect the cheque at the end of the year. However you must rely of the management to run the place properly and if there is a dispute with the management you will can't exactly sell your room, you are stuck with them. If occupancy falls below 70%, the return on your investment starts to get into the 5-6% yield which is no good either.
So all in all, if you want a safe..ish bet go for the hotels and if you think there is more to go yet in propety prices at the marina go for an apartment.
But don't come back to me in 3 years time complaining...ha...ha..

The 2 beds on floors 6-21 no.12 unit have a clear sea view. There is a huge space between the towers. This will also apply to the no.1 and no.8 Unit on floors 23- 53.

paul, can you comment on expected rental yields for the torch?
MArina Heights is offering around 11% for a 1 bed or 9% + free furniture + all costs paid.

Do you think there will be gauranteed rental schemes put in place for the torch?

How about tourist lets - through travel operators eg. thomson ?

So much speculation on rentals and at the end of the day no one knows what the yield will be in 2 years!
One thing is for sure that supply will not out do demand. If you check out www.ameinfo.com there are some v good articles on similar markets and expected yeilds.
It will eventually come down to location and you can't really go wrong with waterfront, especially the most spectacular Marina in the world!
On the Torch we do not have a g'teed rental scheme, however Dubai Select LLC will be looking after the rentals.
You have to think about why Marina heights are offering all 'Extras'?

Where is the swimming pool going to be?
Looks like the only place for it is on the ground plot facing the marina heights tower.
Isnt there supposed to be a car park right next to that ?

2 outdoor pools on the deck on floor 5. Will post render shortly.

Marina Heights are not offering extras. These gauranteed deals are from independants not the developer.

Paul it will only be a partial view not a clear Sea view. There might be gap between the buildings but not sufficient enough to give a clear sea view. I have seen the Marina and there is no way that from the Torch tower you will get a clear sea view about 40% sea view. Just look at the Marina Heights building you cant get clear sea views from that building either and this is what mr AL RAFI says himself.

Here are the views from Marina Heights Tower again.
This will help to work out the views from the Torch.

http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view1.jpg
http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view2.jpg
http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view3.jpg
http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view10.jpg
http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view15.jpg
http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view16.jpg
http://www.marinaheightstower.net/view20.jpg

I think the 12's sea view from the torch may be quite good because you can see through the gap in the road as a diagonal over the palm.

http://img275.echo.cx/img275/9263/torch6215ow.jpg
http://img275.echo.cx/img275/2078/torch23539yz.jpg

I am a bit worried about the 06's views (on floors 23+) because of the arch tower (doesnt that block the view?) and also there are a lot of free land plots in that direction. So wouldnt that marin/sea view be completely blocked later?

http://img287.echo.cx/img287/7351/marina2lb.jpg

Why they say it's only 74 floor in this article? :?

Marina Torch

The Torch stands proudly at the mouth of Dubai Marina, right in the heart of the emirate’s most celebrated waterfront projects. This much envied location possesses stunning views spanning the length of the marina itself but also out across Jumeirah Beach, the Palm Jumeirah and beyond to the ambitious island project known as ‘The World’.

This 345 metre landmark development is as spectacular at night as it is in the day, its lustrous architectural design shimmers off this magnificent waterfront with the iconic Torch design creating an exciting addition to the Dubai skyline.

The 74 story residential tower has been designed specifically to compliment this fantastic marina location by award winning architects Khatib & Alami. The Torch boasts 504 luxury apartments to suit every desire, with all 1, 2 and 3 bedroom apartments and stunning duplex penthouses opening to spacious balconies with unparalleled views over the very best of Dubai.

Whether you are looking for a luxurious home or a solid investment, The Torch Dubai Marina is difficult to overlook and offers the perfect foundation for your future aspirations.



A new landmark on the horizon

The Torch is ideally located at the entrance to Dubai Marina, perfectly positioned amidst the tranquillity and luxury of New Dubai and a stone’s throw from some of Dubai’s most exciting landmarks.


Naturally the marina is something of a landmark in itself, home to some of the world’s most luxurious private boats with The Torch opening out onto one of the premier mooring sites. The marina’s promenade is home to some of Dubai finest shops and restaurants and offers a very sophisticated social scene, with a wealth of top hotels including the Burj Al Arab within easy walking distance.

Adjacent to The Torch Dubai Marina is Media City, one of Dubai’s newest and prominent commercial districts, as well as both the Emirates and the Colin Montgomery golf

http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk/properties/developments_@10914.htm

Send me the contract to almillion@gmail.com and I will have my lawyer go through it and I will post his findings here. Feel free to tell us the 10-year old parent company's name and I will also post that company's credit rating, profitability, etc. here. Surely you don't mind.

If you'd have an ounce of business acumen you'd have been far less defensive and tried to sell me a penthouse (or two!) - instead you're trying to draw me into a petty argument when all I am doing is offering everyone a non-biased perspective of this tower.



with all due respect to most senior forumers here - I just can not understand why all the continued BS allowed, personal attacks and insults n paultaylorworld from day one he posted. Insinuations of him being a fraud, scam and not being the real deal and whatnot kept being posted. My question is - on what basis?.... I am not trying to attack anyone here but merely to point out that this forum is a constructive one and based on an intelectual approach by most of us and as such must be respected, and this includes every single straight-forward and productive member.

As far as I am concerned - from the get go of the Torch project, we in this forum - had the edge and advantage if interested in buying - gettin in b4 others because of guys like paultaylorworld and ragga. yet very few here are willing to recognize this fact ; and very few here are willing to admit they're wrong in doubting these ppl in the first place. What's fair is fair. I don't believe in attacking smones credibility and more importantly their integrity - serves any purpose.

chad - this is what dubaiselect says:

3 Car parking
2 retail + Healthclub and Lobby
68 residential
7 Higher inc maintenance floors

get used to it :D
we have many towers where the number of floors changed a couple of times in the ads, just because some only count the residential floors, some count ground level and so on.

with all due respect to most senior forumers here - I just can not understand why all the continued BS allowed, personal attacks and insults n paultaylorworld from day one he posted. Insinuations of him being a fraud, scam and not being the real deal and whatnot kept being posted. My question is - on what basis?.... I am not trying to attack anyone here but merely to point out that this forum is a constructive one and based on an intelectual approach by most of us and as such must be respected, and this includes every single straight-forward and productive member.

As far as I am concerned - from the get go of the Torch project, we in this forum - had the edge and advantage if interested in buying - gettin in b4 others because of guys like paultaylorworld and ragga. yet very few here are willing to recognize this fact ; and very few here are willing to admit they're wrong in doubting these ppl in the first place. What's fair is fair. I don't believe in attacking smones credibility and more importantly their integrity - serves any purpose.


The guy has his interests in mind. He comes to this forum because it is free access to a perfect target market where he can offload his real estate and benefit from a bigger bonus at the end of the month, like all real estate agents. Nobody is attacking his crediblity, but we have a right to ask questions. The rule is that no broker is credibile (they are all selfish) until he earns his credibility so the onus is on him. Its our capital which is at risk - not his. As investors we have to demonstrate appropriate diligence with our capital; we cannot give our trust to someone just because they work for a an organisation with an appropriate name.

The guy has his interests in mind. He comes to this forum because it is free access to a perfect target market where he can offload his real estate and benefit from a bigger bonus at the end of the month, like all real estate agents. Nobody is attacking his crediblity, but we have a right to ask questions. The rule is that no broker is credibile (they are all selfish) until he earns his credibility so the onus is on him. Its our capital which is at risk - not his. As investors we have to demonstrate appropriate diligence with our capital; we cannot give our trust to someone just because they work for a an organisation with an appropriate name.

To date I'm not aware of any evidence that Paul or anyone else here that sells property in Dubai has been other than factual. Apart from anything else he could have come here posing as a punter but he chose to declare at the outset who he was and what he does, which I respect.

From those pics I believe the 05 and 06 Marina Views will be better than the sea mainly due to how far the sea actually is from the Torch itself. Your gonna see quite abit of the road from the tower and the sea further. At night time the sea view apartments in all buildings will be pitch black. Marina views will be better in my view. Anything above 23rd floor should give a great marina view.

To date I'm not aware of any evidence that Paul or anyone else here that sells property in Dubai has been other than factual. Apart from anything else he could have come here posing as a punter but he chose to declare at the outset who he was and what he does, which I respect.

Threads earlier in this discussion indicate otherwise.
Posing as a punter would not get him that far.

Paul also what guarantees can you give that there wont be another building built in front of the Torch Tower from the Dubai Marina map there does seem to be a plot space in front of the Torch

This one really reminds me of landmark tower in Yokohama, the way it tapers upwards.

Paul also what guarantees can you give that there wont be another building built in front of the Torch Tower from the Dubai Marina map there does seem to be a plot space in front of the Torch

I'd be impressed if he can give u any guarantees that count, ie. in paper, although im sure he'll try his best to give you the hard sell verbally

From DubaiSelect.co.uk:

The Torch is ideally located at the entrance to Dubai Marina, perfectly positioned amidst the tranquillity and luxury of New Dubai and a stone’s throw from some of Dubai’s most exciting landmarks.

Naturally the marina is something of a landmark in itself, home to some of the world’s most luxurious private boats with The Torch opening out onto one of the premier mooring sites. The marina’s promenade is home to some of Dubai finest shops and restaurants and offers a very sophisticated social scene, with a wealth of top hotels including the Burj Al Arab within easy walking distance.


Ok, well, I'm not going to get drawn into an argument where my posts have been misread & misconstrued but reading that I am absolutely appalled!

1/ 'New Dubai' is hardly tranquil at the moment with construction everywhere that is likely to continue for 2/3 years at least
2/ Having been to the Marina many times, there is NO way the boats could be described as the world's most luxurious ... in fact the world's most luxurious wouldn't make it under the bridge (which is temporary?). I certainly wouldn't describe the shops/restaurants as Dubia's finest, either, but i guess that is my controversial opinion.
3/ Saying that the Burj Al Arab is within easy walking distance is absolutely absurd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

al million - i fully agree with you
i'm always pissed off when i have to read stupid things like "burj al arab in walking distance"
tis is hilarious

to describe the dirtiest, deadliest, loudest, ugliest... place in dubai right now as a tranquil place is an impertinence like no other :ohno:

you can call this a perverted marketing strategy!

not just walking distance....but...

EASY WALKING DISTANCE!!!!!!

now, in my mind, walking the 25 meters to the bar here is not an easy walk.

youd need a packed lunch to make that walk. then in summer youd be so sweaty the staff would tell you to piss off.


btw...

there are too many people here without avatars!!!!

homework.... get one! your all confusing me!

Dubai Steve, excellent pictures of the marina views I would welcome any further information that anybody may have.??

with all due respect to most senior forumers here - I just can not understand why all the continued BS allowed, personal attacks and insults n paultaylorworld from day one he posted. Insinuations of him being a fraud, scam and not being the real deal and whatnot kept being posted. My question is - on what basis?.... I am not trying to attack anyone here but merely to point out that this forum is a constructive one and based on an intelectual approach by most of us and as such must be respected, and this includes every single straight-forward and productive member.

As far as I am concerned - from the get go of the Torch project, we in this forum - had the edge and advantage if interested in buying - gettin in b4 others because of guys like paultaylorworld and ragga. yet very few here are willing to recognize this fact ; and very few here are willing to admit they're wrong in doubting these ppl in the first place. What's fair is fair. I don't believe in attacking smones credibility and more importantly their integrity - serves any purpose.

Paultaylorworld was the one who started personal attacks on A1 Million who was just looking at the other side of the coin.
Read earlier mails please.
Anyone going to make a decsion about his life savings has every right to be suspicious , espeacially of the persons using these forums as their advertisement sites.

easy walking distance lol ,
paultaylorworld have you ever walked from the marina to the BAA??? do it, and then edit your website.

btw arfie or somebody asked if there will be a tower in front of the torch, of course there will be , not only one but two.
emirates crown and al ameera...

can someone post any renderings on the other towers "infront" of torch? also, all i have to say is that dxb is such a fast paced innovative city we dont know WHATS going to happen, whos going to build what where until the projects are complete... i take each investment one at a time. :-) make my quick profit and get out, and hold onto only the mainstream properties.

No actually in front of the Torch tower there is not much of a plot size to build a tower. Currently there is an Emaar Sales tower in front which is only about 5 floors and they have planning permission to build upto 12 floors max cos of the little plot size so basically the Torch is guaranteed Marina view with no blocking in front.

the burj al arab isnt easy walking distance from the marina, but if someone wanted to walk, they could cover the distance in an hour. much easier to say the palm is walking distance.

thanks arfie :-)

the burj al arab isnt easy walking distance from the marina, but if someone wanted to walk, they could cover the distance in an hour. much easier to say the palm is walking distance.


man you walk fast!

an hour that way to long

The guy has his interests in mind. He comes to this forum because it is free access to a perfect target market where he can offload his real estate and benefit from a bigger bonus at the end of the month, like all real estate agents. Nobody is attacking his crediblity, but we have a right to ask questions. The rule is that no broker is credibile (they are all selfish) until he earns his credibility so the onus is on him. Its our capital which is at risk - not his. As investors we have to demonstrate appropriate diligence with our capital; we cannot give our trust to someone just because they work for a an organisation with an appropriate name.

Perhaps u misunderstood my point. While I don't dispute that every single investor has got to look out and make sure 1000% b4 releasing a wire-transfer to a particular project in Dubai ; no matter this guy's intentions - name calling won't benefit the subject at hand. Calling him in question b4 having done the required due diligence isn't imo business-smart. And as it seems to have transpired, from all the details confirming the real happening of the Torch project, this guy s'been right and truthfull all along and you guys been shooting up in the air for nothing.

After all, most of our threads in this forum are primaraly geared towards architecture and real estate, so he saw an opening for more honest business and went for it, where's the crime in that?!!!!!! We all have had discussions on investment returns, property prices, yields & soforth n our threads- real estate related right?..... Don't really understand why the high pitch upset over this particular issue and this project in particular.

I think we should switch gears and focus on the development now... if anyone has any investing information contact the agent(s) privately, any new PUBLIC information on the development we should discuss here. I think we should lay off the name calling as well, and focus on the tower/location itself.

Paultaylorworld was the one who started personal attacks on A1 Million who was just looking at the other side of the coin.
Read earlier mails please.
Anyone going to make a decsion about his life savings has every right to be suspicious , espeacially of the persons using these forums as their advertisement sites.

Looking at the other side of the coin?....what are you talking about? are you reading same thread I am?. There is no question I am all about second and even third opinions, one has to be naive when in business not to, but these opinions should be based on factuals and factuals only, to effectively disprove the initial one. Fallacy is a costly price to pay in business if the info provided is not correct or true and even worse - if made up.

1-As posted: - from prior posts ppl forcefuly insisting on their conviction of this project never happening or taking place ; that if it ever did - "they'd eat their own hats".
2-As posted: - according to a reliable high up connection from a powerfull family in UAE, the Torch had been up for sale for the last 3months before being released to the world (not a shred of evidence as per my reserach and my own agent in Dubai backed this claim up to prove its truthfulness - and as reinforced by other forumers backin me up on this) - which one should we take? - the first or the second option?.

As posted: - ppl involved in this project "not respectible"????..Khatib & Alami not respectible? who's kidding who here? Everyone with some basic knowldge knows they are affiliated in 20 countries around the world including US. In business since '63, ranking among top 100 International Design Firms in the world with an impeccable record. is this for real?

As posted: - Dubai Select brand new company: not true again as dissproved by ppl in this forum working for top agencies in Europe. Armada Towers went through Dubaiselct and was a success, so seems after all this company and those representing it aren't flaky after all and their acumen goes beyond 2 ounce.

As posted: - this project will run out of money - based on what?. If you make a simple calculation you'd figure it out that's not the case. Even if numbers didn't add up - does any of us know their balance sheet to a T. have you personally reconciled it to make such a claim?

Again completely baseless claims. These are not misconstrued or misread words, but rather true facts countering fake claims.

One then - must really consider the validity of high up connections - if true in first place anyway, and if so - can u be that high up in society, rubbing elbows with deal makers and shakers and be so misinformed to come across as a complete fake and loser?.

I think this purposely placed misinformation is an insult to our inteligence and we should be the ones to be appalled . I believe these lies are based on bitterness and in this process ppl will invent, pretend to be smthing they are not, try and show off things they wish they had and above all make believe when they know nothing about.

ps. - last word on subject, cheers everyone.

bla bla bla....
what´s the deal with the discussion about MH and the Torch... i don´t get it.

MC, I'm sorry, but your post is so incredible that I'm sat here wondering what your affiliation with DubaiSelect is!!

1/ Have you BEEN to the location this tower is being built? I have. The plot seems smaller than the one the Marina Heights is on (I'm not the only one to say it is small) so either it will be considerably enlarged or the tower will be much slimmer than the render suggests. Seeing as the area hasn't even been fenced off (like almost all other developments in the area) and its size I don't think it was ridiculous to assume the tower would be somewhere else. Right now, it appears I am wrong but no building work or preparation has started. If you want to talk about facts, that's the big one.

2/ Obviously you think your agents are better connected & informed than my sources - fine, its reasonable to trust your own more than mine. However I made it clear I was just repeating what someone had told me. I have not tried to deceive anyone.

3/ Khatib & Alami have been hired by the people responsible for this project, they're not doing it for themselves, are they? Again, I said it was my sources words, not my own. If the people behind the project and agents are so respectable, why do they lie outrageously in their marketing material? You can argue with my opinion all you like, it won't get you anywhere until you or someone else come up with something to prompt me to trust people involved with The Torch. Some facts/evidence please. There's no building work yet, the area isn't fenced off, there is no Web site for the tower (I'm aware of), the marketing material is full of exaggeration and blatant miss-information, etc.. At best, this development is being sold VERY prematurely and in ways that are hardly professional.

4/ If you are truly based in Monaco, I could assume that you are a self-made businessman (I'll assume the best) and so know a thing or two about business. Any company that has not yet filed accounts with Comapnies House is widely considered as NEW. They cannot get credit from suppliers that insist upon credit insurance, for example. Why is this? Because until someone files audited accounts insurance companies DON'T TRUST new companies. Why is that? Because a large percentage go bust in the first 2 years! I invited DubaiSelect to tell us the name of their parent organisation (it is easy to check the shareholdings to see if it is true) to make them seem like a larger concern - I wasn't taken up on this offer. You talk about facts, why won't they provide some? Personally I wouldn't use a new company that has setup to take advantage of the opportunity in Dubai without doing proper checks. If they've done well with other developments then i am sure they will post a healthy profit in their accounts and file them soon.

5/ Again, based on my source and the fact they are selling apartments SO early in the process. It is logical and reasonable to assume they must be doing so out of necessity. Have you any FACTS to show that they won't? No-one seems 100% how tall this tower even is. PaulTaylor didn't even seem sure, saying "at the moment"!

I have nothing against someone being an optimist but based on your post I would never trust you with $1 of my money. I've repeatedly said to people here in these pages that they should NOT buy in a development until it has gone above ground level. There's little anyone can say against this argument as no tower appears to 'sell out' even if they claim to. Maina Heights hasn't, even the Emaar phase I towers haven't.

I'm still trying to work out why you think it is wrong for me to give the agent a hard time and post information I believe to be from a reliable source? None of my hard questions have been answered - we've not seen a contract (I offered to put legal advice here free), we've not heard about DubaiSelect's parent company, there's no physical evidence of the development, etc.. What we have seen is their outrageous sales material. I am perfectly happy to be contradicted with hard facts but so far, none have emerged. Is this project listed on Khatib & Alami's Web site (I couldn't see it)?

You seem to be assuming the best with little or no factual information yourself. Personally, I'm much rather assume the worst and to be proven incorrect.

I can't 'sabotage' the development by doing so as i am sure they have many agents working on it worldwide - I won't make any money - I have no incentive except trying to prevent people from getting their fingers burnt and urging caution.

Also saying I am 'bitter' and liar is childish, unproven and uncalled for ... this development doesn't change anything for Marina Heights owners as we've known for months about bigger towers just behind it! Why people are making out there is some form of rivalry, I have no idea.

Apologies for the long post, but I don't appreciate having my own credibility called into question.

nice post al million,
i would say a mix between both of your opinion and statements is eventually the best and most reasonable.

So Al Million are you claiming the Torch Tower is not a good investment then and that buy a resale in Marina Heights instead ?

Not at all, I'm saying it is yet to be seen whether The Torch is a good investment and that there's no reason to rush in believe everything will be gone if you don't. I think the time has passed to buy in the Marina Heights (if you want a quick profit) although it is only 6/7 months from completion so that’s one advantage.

I don't think I'd advise people to buy an apartment that is being re-sold unless you want something already finished ... you have so much choice in Dubai it is a bit unnecessary.

Personally I'd probably wait until a tower like the Ocean Heights starts being built again and get in while it is still a decent amount away from completion. I am considering doing just that.

Ocean Heights is ridicolously expensive though Al Million. Surely TORCH is a better investment.

I'm not aware of the pricing, I am waiting for construction to start.

So the fact that Torch is cheap makes it a better investment? Is a Skoda better than a Mercedes? Depends what you want. Damac are a successful company so why can't they build as cheaply as the people behind the Torch? Perhaps the interior specifications are different, along with construction techniques, building materials, etc..

I don't know, but the Ocean Heights will have uninterrupted views over the Palm, etc. which has to be part of the reason they're asking for more money. Something with views like that is likely to be easier to re-sell also.

Are you buying to rent or for youself?

Buying as a holiday home and to rent out as well. Will probably use it twice a year rest of the time rent it out. DAMAC is quality I agree but really expensive. You pay for the name.

Value for money Torch is pretty good especially with its payment plan. Not all of us here in the UK have money like the ARABS!

i love how we can discuss all the advantages and disadvantages of investment, view, profit,...

it's great, it shouldn't get too rough though

everybody please calm down :)

Im just glad that i havent bought in either. look like this is not going to be a nice place to live with the two towers holding grudges against each other. if it is this bad now, imagine what it will be like when the towers are completed with hundreds of people living in them!

what tourist in their right mind would want to holiday in either, as the opposing tower heckeles them and throws missiles at them for having stayed in the wrong tower!

Nick says: BAD INVESTMENT

I have read this forum openly and fully, and find some peoples comments quite amazing.

I'm no 'senior forumer' however i value this forum as a tool for investors and enthusiasts to share and gain knowledge, it's provided me with some excellent information that i would not have otherwise found and gives opportunity to read others opinions.
Some people seem too concerned with rubbishing others opinions than actually looking to share information or gain understanding??!!

One of the Torch’s neighbours, Ocean Heights, which A1 Million believes is a sound investment, (and a project I myself have considered) states in its brochure’s 2nd paragraph ‘located at the mouth of the marina, easy access to nearby beach front and luxury hotels including the 7-star Burj Al Arab’…!!! This is just marketing, I would expect that everybody in this forum is wise enough to treat this sort of information as exactly that..!!

If we are going to buy property we are naturally going to meet with developers, agents and brokers, and yes, these people make a living from trading in property.

Personally i do not begrudge them this. And from my personal experience I tend to embrace them, use them for all the knowledge they poses.

On a separate note, I tend to agree with arfie on the Torch over Ocean heights, I still believe this to be an excellent development, and yes I have seen the plot, which is superb.

And although I value A1 million opinion on waiting to see how a development progresses before diving in and believe it to be sound advice, I am from the other school of thought.

If you want to make a real return I personally think you need to pick (as Dubai does offer choice) the project that is right for you and get in early.

Tho I agree with him totally when it comes to checking out the facts. V important.

Dubai Steve, excellent pictures of the marina views I would welcome any further information that anybody may have.??

I also apologise for this long winded and potentially boring post!!!

Al Million, how does the re-sale of the apartment(s) to the developer work? Was there a Transfer fee? Is this something that is offered by all developers to all people?

... Is a Skoda better than a Mercedes?

Well a Skoda Superb is a better car and a way better investment then a Mercedes Benz C-class.

An Ocatavia is a also better then a A-class. ;)

Newsflash - Heard somewhere on the grapevine that The Torch have comissioned a multi million dollar Television advertising campaign for the tower. It will show the tower shooting out of the ground.

Well a Skoda Superb is a better car and a way better investment then a Mercedes Benz C-class.

An Ocatavia is a also better then a A-class. ;)

The German Snail AKA VW Golf is a better investment than both the highly-rated Skoda and the poorly-perfoming Merc C Class.

Speaking of which, what is with this forums obsession with Mercs, it has even made it to the tower development forum!! :bash:

Newsflash - Heard somewhere on the grapevine that The Torch have comissioned a multi million dollar Television advertising campaign for the tower. It will show the tower shooting out of the ground.

You have pretty good grapevines Steve!

Three years ago my wife and I bought two cars. She bought a Merc M-Clas and I bought a Skoda Octavia.
She had the Merc back in the garage 9 TIMES with electrical faults and nearly had Mercedes in the courts, in the end she gave up and traded it in for an X-5.
The skoda is still going strong.

MisterMark, when this tower is finally built, please don't let the bath overflow as i have just purchased 5106 right under you!!

MisterMark, when this tower is finally built, please don't let the bath overflow as i have just purchased 5106 right under you!!

Nice one! You should get an excellent view. I nearly bought 5106, making three, but they wouldn't do me a bigger discount unless I bought four, which was beyond my means at this time.

IMHO the location, spec and price plan make these apartments some of the best buys in the marina.

You sound like a nice guy, so I will let you have it for a discount...only 10% premium...only joking

:applause: ooph

Hell of a discussion.I liked it.
Btw ,A1 million have to differ with your view of waiting until the tower has broken ground level.For a good development in Dubai, all the best (and many of the not so best) plots would have been sold out and you would have to suffice with the ones nobody would like to buy.
As mentioned i the thread marina hights have no one bedroon and only a copule of 2 bedrooms left.Leaves no choice, does it :)

im continually dumb founded at the amount of supertall apartment towers either planned or uc in Dubai. amazing.When Australia's Eureka & Q1 were started in 2003, they were to be the tallest residential towers in the world for sometime. Its good that both will at one time become the wrolds tallest when completed. Q1-322m will open in Sept and Eureka 297m in Dec.even though its will only be a for a 3-4 years.
Dubai will have 6 residential towers over 300m come 2009.who would of thought.
btw love the Torch
cheers

Three years ago my wife and I bought two cars. She bought a Merc M-Clas and I bought a Skoda Octavia.
She had the Merc back in the garage 9 TIMES with electrical faults and nearly had Mercedes in the courts, in the end she gave up and traded it in for an X-5.
The skoda is still going strong.

MisterMark, when this tower is finally built, please don't let the bath overflow as i have just purchased 5106 right under you!!

The M-Class is one of the worst cars ever put out on the market. It has nothing really that good about it, its brand name is what gets it sales, there are MUCH better cars out there for the same price or even cheaper. e.g. vw touareg

at least we have a more polite topic at hand..

how about the 2006 C55 AMG? :-) one of my fav;s.

mercedes sucks, though i prefer ocean heights instead of the torch.
something is wrong with your comparison al million ;)

if you want the best development in dubai, may i introduce marinascape to all of you ;) ?

how much commission is marinescape paying you?

I've seen the MarinaScape DVD and have to say it is class no doubt about it. I have bought in the Torch Tower if I had the money I would also have bought in Marina Scape its a classy apartment.

it is. juiced believe me there is nothing better than the marina scape.

ok i will read up on the scape

do so, watch the website. but i have to admit prices are high at the moment...25% premium...

The Skate Park is definitelly gone!

Glad we are done with all the Mercedes/ Skoda drivvle!

As I mentioned, I am yet to see a Tower on the Marina that combines better location, Quality, Value for money and Payment plan!

Torch- Full Brochure and DVD now ready. If you would like one please e mail!

I can - have you looked at the Belvedere??

Glad we are done with all the Mercedes/ Skoda drivvle!

As I mentioned, I am yet to see a Tower on the Marina that combines better location, Quality, Value for money and Payment plan!

Torch- Full Brochure and DVD now ready. If you would like one please e mail!

marinascape.

I wonder if there is going to be marble inside the torch (could have been addressed already), this makes a big differnece in some overseas investors as to which towers are better ie. quality of the interior

great building!

I believe 33% of apartments are now sold, mostly the 1 and 2 beds on the 6th-21st floors

marble?

aks paultaylorworld

Finishes include Marble and Granite.

I can e-mail a full list of finishes if you require one.

Premier waterfront project. :hahaha:

This is the best building in Dubai Marina , I think .
Best location.

never the marina height is better, al marsa is , the al fattan perhaps, and the marinascape.

Marina Height will be blocked by Torch ,... and Marinascape is very good as well .
And What about Princess Tower?

well for the 1st line towers in the night you will look into a dark wall, the sea...and nothing more.
what is too admit that in the marina you have the palm in front which is good to lock at when you are 1st line.

Marina heights will offer perhaps the best marina views, better than the torch,
and the torch will be blocked by al marsa, emirates crown, and al ameera, so no difference here.

Yes it is true for lower floors.But over 50 it is good:)

could be right indeed.

The Marina views on both Marina Heights and Torch will be very good. One of the best locations on Dubai Marina

Hi all, I've been reading the thread regarding the Torch with great interest and I'm tempted to buy. Does anybody know anything about the develolper "Dubai Select LLC"..

Your turn ,Paultaylorworld :cheers:

Can the DVD for the Torch Tower be made available on this forum ?

again your turn paultaylorworld :D,
do something for your clients..

...sorry...been a little busy...the words 'Hot Cakes' come to mind!

Nearly sold out floors 6-21.

Anyway, Dubai Select are our sister comany in Dubai and if there is anything else you need to know please e-mail me paul.taylor@dubaiselect.co.uk or call 0044 161 488 3555 and I am happy to talk to you.

Our UK Roadshow dates are to be announced shortly so I look forward to meeting you on those should you wish to come along and see the model/ DVD etc.

www.dubaiselect.co.uk (http://www.dubaiselect.co.uk)

model, excellent pics please anyone. Maybe Paul can snap us a few? thanx mate

Very dissapointed with the DVD hardly anything to do with the Torch Tower just about the Marina and Dubai itself. Also not much info in the brochure either. Maybe Im spoilt having seen the MarinaScape and the Goldcrest Views DVD.

What information does it say about torch tower?

i'd appreciate it if somebody could tell me when construction will start
there still is nothing happening on the plot

Groundwork starts July.
The boards will be up shortly.

another tower we have to get updates..

i wonder if we can get a reply from paul taylor regarding this comment:

"Very dissapointed with the DVD hardly anything to do with the Torch Tower just about the Marina and Dubai itself. Also not much info in the brochure either. Maybe Im spoilt having seen the MarinaScape and the Goldcrest Views DVD."

if there is a brochure, what information does it contain?



ragga - did you get my recent private messages??? i didn't get any reply

hehe, once again, the marinascape dvd is amazing...
well...what shall i say. i can only emphasize that the marinascape is indeed the best development in dubai marina, even better than md2 and la riviera , isn't it juiced ;)

hehe, once again, the marinascape dvd is amazing...
well...what shall i say. i can only emphasize that the marinascape is indeed the best development in dubai marina, even better than md2 and la riviera , isn't it juiced ;)

It is slightly better than La Riviera and the Diamonds, but I (along with many others) hold the view that MS is no match for Ocean Heights and La Reve ;)

if there is a brochure, what information does it contain?



ragga - did you get my recent private messages??? i didn't get any reply

hey mate, sorry just got back in town, will send the "item" to the address you sent me on tuesday.
will send you the information you requested as well on mon/tues.

The "item" is great. :-) you will be happy

Regards,

Rishi
_______________________________

any comments about the torch dvd? anyone else seen it?

It is slightly better than La Riviera and the Diamonds, but I (along with many others) hold the view that MS is no match for Ocean Heights and La Reve ;)

le reve ok , i admit that..
BUT NOT ocean height, that tower has the worst apt layouts i have ever seen in my life...

Hmmm ... insider's informations.

why?

Becouse you have seen the floorplans of Ocean Height.

Hmmm ... insider's informations.


He worked as a real estate dude for 2 weeks in Dubai i.e. the guys and gals you see driving people round to show them houses and highlighting the positive aspects of places even though all you can see is 4 walls and a roof ;)

Did he drive you around, showing walls and roofs as well?

Did he drive you around, showing walls and roofs as well?

He showed me a Meadows villa and proudly boasted how luxurious it was (upgraded fittings and finishes)
then a mouse darted across the floor.

He took me back to the car quickly :runaway:

;)

no i did not show juiced a villa. but i drove around, actually i was driven around, don't have a drivers license of course.
but the floor plans of ocean heights are the same as the old ones , when it still had the old design...
i got them from one of their sales agents when i asked for the new ones.
only little changes.

a few of us are still waiting on paul taylor to respond regarding the DVD maybe he prefers not to, thats fine.. just us know.

arfie reported taht the DVD had little information on torch but alot about general dubai.

I agree the DVD does not really do the Tower justice. However, it is just a piece of marketing material and has certainly not affected sales.

I think people make up their own minds taking into consideration location, value, quality and the payment plan. Consider those points and its easy to see this project stands proud against everything else.

Possibly there are other towers that have some of these attributes but not ALL of them!

Oh...and while I'm here....all the 1 Beds are now sold out!

Consider those points and its easy to see this project stands proud against everything else.




right ,the marina diamonds are not as good as the torch indeed ;)


Possibly there are other towers that have some of these attributes but not ALL of them!

marinascape is all i have to say.

Talk me through the Marinascape payment options?

10, 10, 10, 10 , 60 %
i think it was , signing contract, sept 04, march 05, june 05, on completion end 2006.

mortgage available i think tamweel or hsbc, not sure.

paul, thanks for your comments mate

good luck on the rest! check your private messages in a few days. have some referrals

10, 10, 10, 10 , 60 %
i think it was , signing contract, sept 04, march 05, june 05, on completion end 2006.

mortgage available i think tamweel or hsbc, not sure.


Dubaiflo- I rest my case.

Checkout the payment options on the Torch. (includes an extended payment plan starting June 06'. No qualification)

Many thanks ragga I think we may have had some already, but I will certainly welcome more, Cheers.

Hello Everyone!

I am a new member and have been reading this forum for a couple of weeks. Very educational and useful.

With my limited knowledge of the subject can see that the Torch is in an excellent position and I like the apartment layouts. I have now reserved a 2-bed Marina view on higher floors.

My only concern is the status of the EMAAR sales plot and what would happen there. Another monster tower will obviousely block all the views to the Marina.

Anybody has any news/comment on that.

Thanks :)

the plot in front isnt very big so they cant build a huge tower there apparently only 12floors max.

Hi all,

Yes, I’ve also seen the plot and agree; it isn't big enough for a huge tower, and I have also heard that a smaller development may go in, so 12 floors would seem to ad up.

I am looking at a marina facing 2 bed at around the 45th floor, and i am not at all concerned about an obstructed view. Infact I’m very very excited about the views.

Tho I to was a little disappointed with the DVD, I’m not really too bothered, I never really place too much value on DVD's and brochures.

As long as the figures, plans and location stack up, and I have confidence in the project then that is all I need. Tho yes, it is always a bonus to have a nice glossy brochure to show off what you've bought in...!!!

I've seen the DVD as well and its OK. I would have liked to see something about the facilities, pools, gym, common area, lobby etc.

I understand they are putting a model of the building together, so maybe we get more details then.

Would a model of the building be shown at the forthcoming roadshows in UK? I guess one for Paul to answer.

The Model will be available at the following dates;
25th - 27th June LONDON- Sheraton Park Tower
2nd- 4th July BIRMINGHAM- Hotel Du Vin
16-18th July DUBLIN- Herbert Park Hotel

The rest of the time it will be here at our offices outside Manchester.

and when will it be in dubai? :D

The Model will be available at the following dates;
25th - 27th June LONDON- Sheraton Park Tower
2nd- 4th July BIRMINGHAM- Hotel Du Vin
16-18th July DUBLIN- Herbert Park Hotel

The rest of the time it will be here at our offices outside Manchester.


any chance of you dropping it off in fallowfield for a few days in september?

id love to borrow it,

cheers.

No problem but you will need to insure it!
You'll need a big van aswell, the base is 2.5m x 1.5m

:rofl:

but the model must come to dubai, the towers' home!
are there any plans to present it here?

Paul regarding Marina view apartments. If say your on about 30th floor + on a 05 or 06 apartment and when you look to the right how good a view of the SEA would you get ?

The Views to the Sea will be good from that height.
When you think 30 floors is over half the height of the next tower-Marina Heights, you get an idea of the views from that level.

Dubaiflo- I rest my case.

Checkout the payment options on the Torch. (includes an extended payment plan starting June 06'. No qualification)



should i be impressed ?

I think the confusion over the 'payment plan' on the torch is that is is being directly compared to other projects like marina scape, i.e 30% down rest over the build (or there abouts). The torch can be payed for like that which is not superbly different or 'impressive'..!

However they are offering an alternative payment plan over 15 years with both options are available to all... it is this 15 payment plan where the project differs and i think it is this element that paultaylorworld is so proud of.. I don't know if impressive is the right word!! but it is quite a unique and comforting offering..

Yes agree with Rogerio there. If other developments offered similar non status 15yr payment plans then the Dubai market would be even more booming. Some people from the UK get put off investing in Dubai because they can not obtain mortgage in Dubai and the finance options are not very flexible. What Dubai Select are offering here on the Torch which they also offered on Armada Towers is pretty unique.

Sounds like the 0% finance and "buy now, pay next year" deals you get on furniture in Scotland ...

Its a sure way to make sure chavs move in! lol

Sounds like the 0% finance and "buy now, pay next year" deals you get on furniture in Scotland ...

Its a sure way to make sure chavs move in! lol

Can just imagine it.

"The Burberry Tower"

lol

Bloody funny!

All the chavs that bought and sold their council houses are coming, mark my words!

nah, they wouldnt be able to find it.

besides, i doubt theyd make it half way to the marina from the airport without pissing somone off and getting a couple of life terms!

I can see the headlines "25% of Torch tower residents arrested at airport"

On a seriously note, is there any chance of some photos of the model? I'm sure everyone would appreciate it.

You mean a model like this one? :D

http://www.deathrowuk.com/chav.jpg

As funny as that picture is, I'd also like to see PaulTaylorWorld's model of The Torch as well ... post some pics please!

Bloody funny!

All the chavs that bought and sold their council houses are coming, mark my words!

Step aside people, make way for the Vicky Pollards :runaway:

....v funny.

Back to business.

Torch Model arrives Friday should be able to post some pics.

Sales now at 50%

No problem but you will need to insure it!
You'll need a big van aswell, the base is 2.5m x 1.5m

Do you mean only the basement of the model is 2.5 x 1.5 meter? How tall is the model then 10 - 15 meters. Does it come in pieces or "2.5m" figure, is actually the height of the model?

Just curious :)

No! The base of the Model is 2.5 x 1.5 Metres. The base is the area that shows the Marina. The model stands just over 1m tall. Available for viewing as follows;

Sat 25th, Sun 26th, Mon 27th June- Sheraton Park Tower, Knightsbrodge, LONDON SW1

Sat 2nd, Sun3rd, Mon 4th July- Hotel Du Vin, Church st, BIRMINGHAM

Friday 8th, Sat 9th, Sun 10th, Mon 11th July- Dubai Select HQ, The Box, Lower Meadow rd, WILMSLOW, Cheshire

Sat 16th, Sun 17th, Mon 18th July- Herbert Park Hotel, Ballsbridge- DUBLIN

Sat 16th, Sun 17th, Mon 18th July- Herbert Park Hotel, Ballsbridge- DUBLIN
So there'll probably be lots of Irish people living in the torch then?

Well I certainly hope so, All the Irish I have met are very nice and friendly. Have you been to Dublin lately?! you should, much better than the pompous French! (ooppss a bit controversial probably gonna get deleted by DL now)

Thanks!:D Of course we're better than those shitty french! :jk: (please don't kick my ass).
I live in Cork actually but go to Dublin from time to time as my cousins live there. Will be doing so even more next year though.

So there'll probably be lots of Irish people living in the torch then?

Will the Torch have a pub then? :)

or perhaps each apartment can come with a year's free drinking pass to the Irish Village

http://www.ameinfo.com/images/news/4/5004-irish.jpg

Once I've been there when they were showing England vs Ireland ragby match. It was crazzy, packed with hundreds, hundreds of people, representing both sides. :nuts:

oh no no more british in the marina....

Oh no, don't say British. It's an insult to call an Irishman a Brit;)

none the less, historicly acurate! :D


EDIT: \/

none the less, histoicly acurate! :D

... histoicly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!:D Of course we're better than those shitty french! :jk: (please don't kick my ass).
I live in Cork actually but go to Dublin from time to time as my cousins live there. Will be doing so even more next year though.


Well all I can say is if you like potatoes with your meals than no doubt The Torch will be for you. :runaway: :D

lol :D, i guess the torch and the marina heights residents will fight each other when they both moved in...

and then we'll have the lone German in MarinaScape wailing as his tower falls apart in pieces :D

at least my tower will be built :D

Any body been down to see the Torch model in London over the weekend ?

What was it like ?

http://home.btconnect.com/narmsoft/Images/Torch/DSC00484.JPG

Nevermind

http://home.btconnect.com/narmsoft/Images/Torch/DSC00486.JPG

looks cheap sorry...
but not as wide as in the renders,thank god.
and they forgot to add al marsa, emirates crown ,and al ameera in front of it :D

Will the top of the torch have fluorescent lighting?

Not impressive at all.

The picture of the TORCH on Dubai Select is alot better than the model pic there.

lighting wasn't good and I am useless with digital cameras anyway :)

Paul Taylor, maybe you arrange some decent shots to be posted!

Im concerned about the quality of architecture currently being dished up in Dubai.I am in developments and its frustrating to see prime real estate developed badly.
This site shuld not support such bland architecture compared so some of the more cutting edge architecture on offer in Dubai. It seems everyone is now a developer and are getting what they pay for, I mean the old saying "pay peanuts and get monkeys " is so true .
this tower is surrounded by some quality architecture and they will be cheapened by this tower.
my 2 cents

maybe this is an experts' view
i prefer to see the finished product :D

imo towers turn out to be more beautiful than what they look like in renders/models

I didnt say nething before because everyone seemed to love the design of this tower. Personally, I dont like it at all. SA Boy is right, this site deserves much better considering the other towers close by. I hope this one doesnt get built or gets shifted to another plot in DM.

I too never really see what all the fuss was about with The Torch. It's nothing to write home about, and I think the top even looks rather tacky.

Check the oversized render on Property Weekly (50 cm at least)

i am not a fan of this tower.
but it is something different and the final product might look good...

so what do you guys consider as nice towers in Dubai Marina, give some examples.

Ocean Heights, Marina Terrace, Fattan Marine, Horizon.
oh and the Marina Diamonds ofcourse ;)

it depends on wether you are talking about design or about floorplans or about location or overall gorilla...

well I think you put your finger on it! it depends how you look it at, so difficult to say in one word I don't like this tower, unless you refer to just the way it looks from outside.

Take Ocean heights which I think majority of us like, but have you seen those weird floor layout! or the price per sq/ft.

I was trying to find out why people like certain towers so I guess we should say tower X because of Y.

I personally like Ocean Heights look, Marine Terrace location, Marinescape floor plan and Park Islands grounds!!

And I dont't like any of Diamonds at all, I take it Juiced was being sarcastic ^ :)

Yes he was. I agree that OH floor plans suck and are way over-priced, but when I say that I think it's the best tower in DM, it's because of the way it looks from the outside. IMO just because we are gonna have 200 towers, doesnt mean we forget about the architecture and concentrate on density and large floor plans hoping that some will turn out good looking anyway.