I see where you're coming from, but the outbound lane goes down Cumberland Rd so it might well have utilities under it.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/EXTENSION-PLAN-CRIBBS/story-14278071-detail/story.html

Cribbs hoping to expand it's floor space to attract larger fashion stores and to meet expected demand from all those new houses...

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/EXTENSION-PLAN-CRIBBS/story-14278071-detail/story.html

Cribbs hoping to expand it's floor space to attract larger fashion stores and to meet expected demand from all those new houses...

I knew this would happen, I mentioned it a little while back. :)

The Mall have a larger blueprint to provide 35000sqm which when you think the whole mall is 66000sqm is a damn big extension. Competing with Cabot Circus and with all the new major projects going on around there this was inevitable.

I hear talk of a new 100000sqm mall/shopping destination being built on the south side of the city as well. Somewhere near Whitchurch, near the new SBRR (South Bristol Ring Road). No idea who's behind it though, It might be one of those outlet Village companies like MacArthur Glen etc.

Shame, for me personally, that more of Bristol's retail couldn't be concentrated in the centre. Cribbs is too far away!

Well i could see this coming! When the place opened it sucked the life out of bristol city centre. Now it has serious competition they want to expand.
I expect they are trying to get Forever 21 to open a big store up there.
Time for bristol city centre and cabot circus to up its game!
Personally iv never liked The Mall been there only 5 times in all the years it has been open. The place is sterile and has a deafening echo of people.

Shame, for me personally, that more of Bristol's retail couldn't be concentrated in the centre. Cribbs is too far away!

Agreed. Sadly, this is all going to become a traffic nightmare as well. Adding 1/3rd capacity to the Mall, plus 9,000 new homes in the Filton/Patchway area, *and* they are closing Highwood Rd. (the road between Cribbs and the A38) so that Bovis can integrate it into their Charlton Hayes development.

Retail wise I hear that the Arcade in the Broadmead (pictured below) is to become a high end fashion center. Armani, Dolce and Gabbana, Jeffery West Shoes, Gucci, Prada, Vivienne Westwood, Ralph Lauren, Burberry, Tag Watches, Versace, Hilfiger and Louis Vuitton among other names are apparently interested in having a presence in Bristol (They would not open in the Mall though unless they created a concentration of high end stores, like the Village @ Westfield London). All current tenants are going to be cleared out including Starbucks and Thornton's so they can do major refits of the units. They are going to come boutiques so they have enough space for about 16 units and then 4 larger corner units on either end of the Arcade.

We'll see if this happens, Can't see the attraction what with the economy the way it is at the moment but you never know.

http://www.bristol247.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Bristol-Christmas-lights1.jpg

The rich chinese tourists will love it, though.

Retail wise I hear that the Arcade in the Broadmead (pictured below) is to become a high end fashion center. Armani, Dolce and Gabbana, Jeffery West Shoes, Gucci, Prada, Vivienne Westwood, Ralph Lauren, Burberry, Tag Watches, Versace, Hilfiger and Luis Vuitton among other names are apparently interested in having a presence in Bristol (They would not open in the Mall though unless they created a concentration of high end stores, like the Village @ Westfield London). All current tenants are going to be cleared out including Starbucks and Thornton's so they can do major refits of the units. They are going to come boutiques so they have enough space for about 16 units and then 4 larger corner units on either end of the Arcade.

We'll see if this happens, Can't see the attraction what with the economy the way it is at the moment but you never know.

http://www.bristol247.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Bristol-Christmas-lights1.jpg
Well if this it true it will be great news for Bristol.
It will be like Bristol answer to the victoria quater in Leeds.

http://www.v-q.co.uk/home/about_us

Retail wise I hear that the Arcade in the Broadmead (pictured below) is to become a high end fashion center. Armani, Dolce and Gabbana, Jeffery West Shoes, Gucci, Prada, Vivienne Westwood, Ralph Lauren, Burberry, Tag Watches, Versace, Hilfiger and Luis Vuitton among other names are apparently interested in having a presence in Bristol (They would not open in the Mall though unless they created a concentration of high end stores, like the Village @ Westfield London). All current tenants are going to be cleared out including Starbucks and Thornton's so they can do major refits of the units. They are going to come boutiques so they have enough space for about 16 units and then 4 larger corner units on either end of the Arcade.



Unless you give a source, I doubt that somehow.

The rich chinese tourists will love it, though.

They come to Bristol in their hoardes...

Shame, for me personally, that more of Bristol's retail couldn't be concentrated in the centre. Cribbs is too far away!

I agree with this, we need a even better retail offering in the City Centre, because it brings many additional benefits to the city. Cribbs does suck the life out of the centre and has been the reason Broadmead was so crap for some many years.

[QUOTE=Gee31;87139480]Retail wise I hear that the Arcade in the Broadmead (pictured below) is to become a high end fashion center. Armani, Dolce and Gabbana, Jeffery West Shoes, Gucci, Prada, Vivienne Westwood, Ralph Lauren, Burberry, Tag Watches, Versace, Hilfiger and Luis Vuitton among other names are apparently interested in having a presence in Bristol (They would not open in the Mall though unless they created a concentration of high end stores, like the Village @ Westfield London). All current tenants are going to be cleared out including Starbucks and Thornton's so they can do major refits of the units. They are going to come boutiques so they have enough space for about 16 units and then 4 larger corner units on either end of the Arcade.

We'll see if this happens, Can't see the attraction what with the economy the way it is at the moment but you never know.

It would be great if this did happen, where did you here this and do you have an article or soruce? It could ne true as the sale of high end retail goods has preformed well in the downturn. Look at the results of burberry during the last few years, they have been virtually unaffected by the economic woes.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Fears-Bristol-hospital-tower-block-dominate-sky/story-14305040-detail/story.html

I am still struggling to see how this development would 'dominate the city skyline'. Not that I am particularly in favour or against the scheme at this point, but I'm tired of BEP's usage of misleading headlines. The civic soceity themselves are quoted as saying 'If the new block is so tall that it dominates and harms the views to the north, west and south, the scheme will fail to achieve its potential', which is something altogether different. Of course, they are referring to the tower's height in the context of the listed hospital building only. For it to dominate the CITY skyline it would have to be at least 80m tall, and even then that would be debatable. 16 stories of apartments (which are lower than offices) would probably only equate to 60m max, which is only a bit taller than the Bristol eye on temple quay2. It would struggle to even dominate the disgusting 'L' shaped block of flats next door(is it redcliffe house?)..

Personally I think the 12 storie plan sounds most appropriate, but without seeing any accurate renderings it's impossible to tell. I do feel this area of the city is extremely important for Bristol's future though. The centre would shift south slightly, and once part is developed, it might act as the catalyst for the rest of that slightly unsightly stretch leading all the way up to templegate which is littered with repugnant blocks of flats and the horrible eye sore hotel opposite TM station, and would continue to help bring the station back towards the centre. Of course, the demolition of all the blocks would mean displacing a lot of people, and it would have to be approached sensitively; more flats needed elsewhere/affordable housing, but as the city's centre grows, this area, along with st Phillips, appears ripe to me..

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/redcliffe.jpg

Baring a few small houses down the northern fringe of that land next to the harbourside, the cathedral, the new school on clarence road and the newish offices near the temple quay 'island', there is nothing there but miserable flats as far as I can see.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/cc.jpg

EDIT:
Just like to add to that, that it would be nice if they could clear the area around St. Mary Redcliffe church, to create a vibrant public space, part parkland, part recreational. Maybe a portion devoted to a market. I know they are planning to do away with the dual carriageway already, but I think the church deserves a much more respectful surrounding than it has been given, and as much as I like the gothic-black look, created from thousands of cars passing every day, a good clean would do it wonders! Just like it did for the wills tower.

Couldn't agree more with you Schmeek! I hope it's just the usual poker game and that the tower will still end up higher than those horrible blocks of flats. My understanding is that the whole redevelopment scheme is rather time-sensitive, that works would need to start more or less immediately after the building is vacated if it is not to deteriorate further - that might provide the developers with a bit of leverage, because if it's not financially viable, it won't happen, right? But then, the developers also have quite an impressive track record of redeveloping historic buildings and sites - hopefully that will count in their favour. They don't seem like the kind of people who would put up something completely unsuitable to make a few extra quid.

Added: As for the redevelopment of the area between Redcliffe Hill and Temple Meads, I don't see that happening for a while, although it would be excellent of course. I think if anything there gets redeveloped, it's probably the Peugeot site and that multi-storey car park and that grotty hotel opposite the station concourse (don't remember if they're part of the enterprise zone or not), and then the Redcliffe Way area probably (there's space for a whole new row of buildings - if I remember correctly the plan was to increase density there and close Redliffe Hill/Way for through-traffic and turn the roundabout in front of St. Mary Redcliffe into a square or something).

EDIT:
Just like to add to that, that it would be nice if they could clear the area around St. Mary Redcliffe church, to create a vibrant public space, part parkland, part recreational. Maybe a portion devoted to a market. I know they are planning to do away with the dual carriageway already, but I think the church deserves a much more respectful surrounding than it has been given, and as much as I like the gothic-black look, created from thousands of cars passing every day, a good clean would do it wonders! Just like it did for the wills tower.

I totally agree too. You or someone else has raised this very important issue before and virtually every time I drive, walk or cycle passed St Mary Redcliffe I feel a sense of lost opportunity. As a city Bristol is missing so many benefits; the cash from tourist, public space for residents and city workers, wellbeing and pride of citizens, increased property values & commercial rents, extra business rates for the council...all I believe are possible with the right re-development of St Mary Redcliffe's ground, roundabout and road system

This will bring disruption for awhile but the longer term benefits will outweight the short term cost. An ambitious councilor or business leader who has the time needs to get behind this project and it could leave an incredible legacy.!!:banana:

By the way, I got a tour of the Harvey Nic's residential tower by the man who developed it before Christmas. They are built to a very high spec inside and are ideal for apartment lets or a posh city centre pad.

You can see the old asylum in Frenchay at the top of the M32 and right across the city from the other side to Dundry. At night it must be spectacular. The guys who developed it seemed very positive about the sales which are around the 40 per cent mark and said Bristol was massively outperforming other cities like Birmingham on value and volumes of flat sales for them. He reckoned Bristol was the strongest residential flat market of any city outside London for them at present.

Nice one Rupert. Is it just the top penthouse that has the great views, or do some of the other upper floors boast decent vistas as well?

Forgot to post this shot of the new hospital at southmead. Coming along really well, looks huge in the flesh.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa272/Berbaking/2011-12-30132632.jpg
Also, it's built on one of the highest parts of ground in Bristol - you can see that collection of tower cranes from almost anywhere! Indeed at night, particularly, with the aircraft warning beacons on their tips, from afar it appears as if we have a cluster of talls in Bristol (to the untrained eye anyway!).... coming down the M5 towards Almondsbury interchange, the straight just after you hit the summit after the rise from J14 is one example. Another is from the A46 as you head towards the Wick roundabout from the M4 junction, looking to the city on your righthandside. Will try and get a shot soon before they are all taken down again.
Anyway, just thought i'd add that little nugget!

It's going to be an amazing hospital when it's finished. I almost want to get ill so I can get a bed (in a private suite, natch!).

It's going to be an amazing hospital when it's finished. I almost want to get ill so I can get a bed (in a private suite, natch!).

^^^^^^^^^^^^

:lol::lol::lol:

Couldn't agree more with you Schmeek! I hope it's just the usual poker game and that the tower will still end up higher than those horrible blocks of flats. My understanding is that the whole redevelopment scheme is rather time-sensitive, that works would need to start more or less immediately after the building is vacated if it is not to deteriorate further - that might provide the developers with a bit of leverage, because if it's not financially viable, it won't happen, right? But then, the developers also have quite an impressive track record of redeveloping historic buildings and sites - hopefully that will count in their favour. They don't seem like the kind of people who would put up something completely unsuitable to make a few extra quid.

Added: As for the redevelopment of the area between Redcliffe Hill and Temple Meads, I don't see that happening for a while, although it would be excellent of course. I think if anything there gets redeveloped, it's probably the Peugeot site and that multi-storey car park and that grotty hotel opposite the station concourse (don't remember if they're part of the enterprise zone or not), and then the Redcliffe Way area probably (there's space for a whole new row of buildings - if I remember correctly the plan was to increase density there and close Redliffe Hill/Way for through-traffic and turn the roundabout in front of St. Mary Redcliffe into a square or something).

It could be a huge improvement although I think it's the wrong site for a very tall (in the Bristol context) building. There is a plan to improve the Redcliffe area but until the economic situation improves I don't imagine we'll see too much headway made.

http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/planning_and_building_regulations/planning_policy/local_development_framework/SPD3FutureOfRedcliffe_0_0.pdf

I actually quite like the block of flats facing the New Cut by the General Hospital. The one where its arches echo those of the retaining walls by the cut.

virtually every time I drive, walk or cycle passed St Mary Redcliffe I feel a sense of lost opportunity.

Very true, though not easy to change with the entire area being a bit dead really, despite the Mercure hotel and the Ramada (the Magistrates Court's evil twin?) right around the corner. At best the area is for passing through at the moment.

What strikes me not only about St. Mary Redcliffe in particular, but Bristol in general is the poor lighting at night, and I don't mean street lights. Buildings and facades should be lit up, especially grand buildings. I wonder if it's a false sense of environmentalism, or just laziness. Walking through the Gothic Quarter in Barcelona at night is amazing, even at 3am in the morning (and not just there, also many other parts of the city). Bristol at night is a bit of a disappointment. How buildings and public spaces will be lit at night should be part of the planning process in my opinion. The Paragon at Victoria Street / Counterslip is a nice example of what can be done to make things look nice at night. That yellow bridge near Temple Meads (over the New Cut at St. Luke's Road) would look fantastic at night with some spotlights in the right place, for example.

Very true, though not easy to change with the entire area being a bit dead really, despite the Mercure hotel and the Ramada (the Magistrates Court's evil twin?) right around the corner. At best the area is for passing through at the moment.

What strikes me not only about St. Mary Redcliffe in particular, but Bristol in general is the poor lighting at night, and I don't mean street lights. Buildings and facades should be lit up, especially grand buildings. I wonder if it's a false sense of environmentalism, or just laziness. Walking through the Gothic Quarter in Barcelona at night is amazing, even at 3am in the morning (and not just there, also many other parts of the city). Bristol at night is a bit of a disappointment. How buildings and public spaces will be lit at night should be part of the planning process in my opinion. The Paragon at Victoria Street / Counterslip is a nice example of what can be done to make things look nice at night. That yellow bridge near Temple Meads (over the New Cut at St. Luke's Road) would look fantastic at night with some spotlights in the right place, for example.

Good points. The illumination stategy is bizarre in Bristol - some buildings/areas aren't lit at all that should be, some are lit that (imo) shouldn't be, whilst others are lit but inappropriately. I always found the lighting on the church in st. Pauls to be a little bizarre, it appears to have some neon at the top that would be more suitable on a nightclub. Also, more recently, they have a light atop the cabot tower (think it is red??) which seems a bit out of sorts as well. I dunno, maybe it's just me. I praise the intention to light these two landmarks but somehow I feel it could've been done a little more tastefully.
Then there's the two huge trees down by the war memorial near the fountains - bathed in green and blue - don't know if the lights are still there, but they kind of worked somehow! I just wonder how they got the nod ahead of some of our dull poorly lit buildings. What bright spark(no pun intended) thought "I know, let's light those trees!" and for that matter, who said "yes! That's a great idea!".....
One other lighting scheme I actually liked (again, unsure if it is still there) was on the building fronting the aforementioned memorial. I can't for the life of me remember the name of it now, but it has recently been taken over and we talked briefly about on here a few pages back. Anyway, it was lit in a colour scheme which alternated every few seconds.

Berlin have a festival of light every Autumn where lots of things are illuminated. All the trees on Unter Den Linden (the main avenue in the city facing the Brandenburg gate) are lit. It looks wonderful. Are the trees by the river next to the car park opposite the Watershed/za za/Lloyds etc lit? If not they would look great illuminated.

The Bristol 2050 (http://www.bristol2050.co.uk/) book/document seems to be available as PDF (http://www.qubedesign.com/2050_-_High_in_Hope.pdf) now, apologies if it's been mentioned already.

Hmm - BCC rejected the proposal for Glouc Cricket Club last night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-16524105

And Gloucester City Council have already been on the phone to GCC to talk about the club moving back to there.

Hmm - BCC rejected the proposal for Glouc Cricket Club last night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-16524105

And Gloucester City Council have already been on the phone to GCC to talk about the club moving back to there.

If they moved that would be so bad for Bristol. I hate the fact that some "out of touch old farts" are making these decisions. They are so backwards!!!

What I don't understand: Did BCC pass the old plans for the larger ground?

If they moved that would be so bad for Bristol. I hate the fact that some "out of touch old farts" are making these decisions. They are so backwards!!!

What I don't understand: Did BCC pass the old plans for the larger ground?

Yes they did - that was for 20,000 capacity with student flats as opposed to private ones. The failed application went up to 7 srories whereas the approved one was generally no higher than 6. The planning officers recommended approval so maybe GCC can still get through by tweaking it a little. They could go to appeal, but they seem to be in a bit of a mess waiting for a positive decision to sort out players' contracts. I don't think they'd have time for an appeal if that's the case.

Hmm - BCC rejected the proposal for Glouc Cricket Club last night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-16524105

And Gloucester City Council have already been on the phone to GCC to talk about the club moving back to there.

I'm pretty sure they will move back to Gloucester. Bristol and South Gloucs don't want business here. In fact they don't seem sure what they want.

I'm pretty sure they will move back to Gloucester. Bristol and South Gloucs don't want business here. In fact they don't seem sure what they want.

If they move back to Gloucester what will that mean for Cricket in Bristol and their current ground?

Do GCC own the County Ground?

If they move back to Gloucester what will that mean for Cricket in Bristol and their current ground?

Housing! What else? ;)

Housing! What else? ;)

HOW SAD!!! :ohno:

Just heard that English Heritage have decided not to list the Brabazon Hangars, where Concorde was built. Apparently, they don't have distinct architectural or historical merit.
Get your photos now if you want a keepsake...they probably won't be around for long!
(Great news for BAE, who will now be able to include them in the housing scheme).

Just heard that English Heritage have decided not to list the Brabazon Hangars, where Concorde was built. Apparently, they don't have distinct architectural or historical merit.
Get your photos now if you want a keepsake...they probably won't be around for long!
(Great news for BAE, who will now be able to include them in the housing scheme).

That can't be true? If it is that's sad news. A piece of history and could have been converted into a social venture like, gym, pool, community areas, or even business units, karting center, etc etc loads of options. At least it would have kept safe something from Bristol's Aerospace Legacy!!!

Maybe and I know it's a little whacky, they could build Planes there? :banana:

The 3rd and final consultation on the General Hospital redevelopment happened last week - the exhibition boards from then are now available in on their website at http://www.cityandcountry.co.uk/content/download/6803/33459/9%20-%20All%203rd%20con%20boards%20complete%20used%20set.pdf

Looking at the plans - they've come up with kinda 3 proposals. The first one, and the one that I think the planning app that they're submitting next month, doesn't include any new tower on the site. It does include new 'roof top apartments' and a new pedestrian route through the site with active frontage along that route as well as on the riverside front.

The second proposal includes the tower of up to 12 storeys and the final proposal also includes a potential development within the council flats next door (not sure what the people living in those flats would think of a new building in the middle of them).

They make a point in the proposals that time is limited to do this as the building is already started to decay so they will be looking at starting the redevelopment as soon as the hospital moves out later this year. Let's just hope the council don't screw up the planning permission process.....

The 3rd and final consultation on the General Hospital redevelopment happened last week - the exhibition boards from then are now available in on their website at http://www.cityandcountry.co.uk/content/download/6803/33459/9%20-%20All%203rd%20con%20boards%20complete%20used%20set.pdf

Looking at the plans - they've come up with kinda 3 proposals. The first one, and the one that I think the planning app that they're submitting next month, doesn't include any new tower on the site. It does include new 'roof top apartments' and a new pedestrian route through the site with active frontage along that route as well as on the riverside front.

The second proposal includes the tower of up to 12 storeys and the final proposal also includes a potential development within the council flats next door (not sure what the people living in those flats would think of a new building in the middle of them).

They make a point in the proposals that time is limited to do this as the building is already started to decay so they will be looking at starting the redevelopment as soon as the hospital moves out later this year. Let's just hope the council don't screw up the planning permission process.....

I think they are not going to be putting a tower in that scheme anymore. Nimby's bite again!!!

I have recently started to feel differently about tall buildings. I would much prefer that Bristol turned into Rome for example than New York. I think because everyone is following suit having tall buildings it's getting boring. I do like the Paris thing where they have a cluster of talls in a select sector, actually thinking about it like Canary Wharf in London.

I think one day Bristol will have some talls but I am getting more used to the idea of having nicer buildings instead of just glass towers. The area I think it may be is Avonmouth side. Due to the space and transport links (Rail, Sea, Road and Air) and need for regeneration in the area if someone submitted a decent masterplan which included taller buildings I think they may get the nod. Mind you we would need the fight the Nimby's still!!!

Just my thoughts!!! :)

It's going to be an amazing hospital when it's finished. I almost want to get ill so I can get a bed (in a private suite, natch!).

Been there, done that, don't recommend it. The cranes are listed in the NOTAMS for Filton every day. Must be costing a fortune in crane hire alone.

That can't be true? If it is that's sad news. A piece of history and could have been converted into a social venture like, gym, pool, community areas, or even business units, karting center, etc etc loads of options. At least it would have kept safe something from Bristol's Aerospace Legacy!!!

Maybe and I know it's a little whacky, they could build Planes there? :banana:

Tricky one, that. "Finals to land over Sommerville Road..." Nah.

Seeing those cranes at night is the only decent thing about living in southmead at the moment, hah. I was walking through the hospital at about 5.30am on the way to work when it was foggy and it looked like a load of UFO's above me.
I really feel Bristol NEEDS some vibrant talls, though... the place just feels so stale to me and I find it hard to get excited about anything other than the great historical places architecturally.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/64778-one-victoria-street-given-go-ahead/index.html

Planning approval has been granted for the refurbishment of Bristol's One Victoria Street - good news

Nice one Rupert. Is it just the top penthouse that has the great views, or do some of the other upper floors boast decent vistas as well?

Schmeek - I'm not sure but I had a look at the 8th floor facing the centre so to speak and from there you could see Dundry and the hills South of Bristol. I would guess that anything from the 6th floor up would boast immpressive views.

Hi guys heres a video to make you proud of our great city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m5trAt1WiAU&gl=GB

Hi guys heres a video to make you proud of our great city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m5trAt1WiAU&gl=GB

Good Video!!! Dare I say they have missed things out though but then again maybe you would only know if you lived here so suppose its all good. Nice to keep some secrets. :)

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/64778-one-victoria-street-given-go-ahead/index.html

Planning approval has been granted for the refurbishment of Bristol's One Victoria Street - good news

This is actually really good as this building is in a prominent position and the changes they are making are good. They will improve and increasing the presence from the bridge, water and Vic street. All good!!! :banana:

So the Old Mag Courts are getting the shaft. I don't mind the new building just would have been nice to see another Hotel Brand coming in rather than another Travelodge. I have attached some images for those who don't know what the new proposed building will look like.

Also the Hilton Hotels Group has taken over the Mint Hotel in Temple Quay, they kept that quiet. Due to open on 18th Feb 2012.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115716-1.png

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115657.png

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115641.png

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115613.png

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115549.png

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115521.png

how is bristol? Is it an exciting city?

How is it compare to manchester,liverpool,birmimgham? i mean in which type of category we could class it?

Hi guys heres a video to make you proud of our great city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m5trAt1WiAU&gl=GB

Really like this.

how is bristol? Is it an exciting city?

How is it compare to manchester,liverpool,birmimgham? i mean in which type of category we could class it?

Bristol is a great city Forget Birmingham,Liverpool and Manchester Bristol is where it is at! We have great shopping, cuture and nightlife and the countryside right on our doorstep.
Check out the pics of Bristol on this link.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=20638084#post20638084

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w164/gee31/ScreenShot2012-01-19at115657.png

Aww, I *love* Cafelicious, too!

Nothing special but very good 'filler'.

it seems a good city but how far is it from london by train?

It takes about 1 hr 45 mins to get from London Paddington station to Bristol Temple Meads.

it seems a good city but how far is it from london by train?

Bristol is closer by road and depending on where you are. i.e If your flying to UK and you land @ London Luton its not actually London so that would take quite long. Train stops at stations which is which is why it takes that long but if you get a non-stop high speed one then it'll be a lot faster (not sure if they are available any more though). Car is better and much quicker.

Bristol itself I think is the 2nd or 3rd most visited major city in England after London so it must be OK. :)

It's a diverse city and there's lots to do, does depend what your in to so do your research first or ask some questions here and I am sure my fellow Bristolians would help with any answers.

If you do come to Bristol, I hope you have a good time!!! Chow!

Nothing special but very good 'filler'.

If your referring to the new hotel (magistrates site) then that's how I feel about it to. It's good that they are using the site to it's full and also that they have added a couple of stories to the hight as well. Could have looked a lot worse and I do actually quite like the Rupert Street elevation.

I think (or hope) it will be the catalyst for more sites to get done on that street and hopefully Bridewell Island plan will also get done (Urban Splash are the developers I think).

It's my home town so I'm biased, but Bristol has a unique character and punches above its weight. If leaving my current job in London wasn't a completely mad move to make, I'd be living there now.

it seems a good city but how far is it from london by train?

Bristol is much smaller than the other cities mentioned it has no tram only poor buses. That said its small and walkable. There isn't much to do but there's a good atmosphere and it is relaxed.

Bristol is much smaller than the other cities mentioned it has no tram only poor buses. That said its small and walkable. There isn't much to do but there's a good atmosphere and it is relaxed.

What are you basing this on? I know we (Bristolians) are probably a little biased but come on. Where are you from? It's depends on what you want to do as I have mentioned before.

Technically you could say that about anywhere, if you hate architecture and cultural exhibits then Rome (Italy) would be pretty boring wouldn't it but saying there's nothing to do in Rome would simply be a stupid comment.

I would not say Bristol is walk-able at all. Area sizes of a UK cities is a tricky one because of metropolitan areas and county boundary but very crudely taking the sizes of UK cities, Bristol (City Only - 42sq Miles) is as large as, for example, Manchester (Metropolitan Area - 44sq miles). Other major cities in the UK usually have larger towns and even cities which come under their Metropolitan areas which is why they seem larger i.e Manchester has Stockport and Birmingham has Solihull amongst others.

Though Greater Bristol Area (Avon Area) doesn't legally exist, if it did it would be roughly 520sq miles which would make it the third largest populated urban area behind West Yorkshire (783sq miles), Greater London (607 sq miles) with Greater Manchester (493sq Miles) and West Midlands (348sq Miles).

Plus there's to many hills to climb anyway and you would get a little tired. Though he has a point about our transport system, it does indeed SUCK! :ohno:

Bristol is much smaller than the other cities mentioned it has no tram only poor buses. That said its small and walkable. There isn't much to do but there's a good atmosphere and it is relaxed.

There's plenty to see and do, easily on par with the likes of Birmingham and Manchester, probably even more so depending on your criteria, if you're bored here it's not gonna be much better anywhere else, as far as British cities go, major or minor.

There's plenty to see and do, easily on par with the likes of Birmingham and Manchester, probably even more so depending on your criteria, if you're bored here it's not gonna be much better anywhere else, as far as British cities go, major or minor.

Hear Hear!

I have a question...

There's a Prime Ministers site if I am not mistaken where you can put a view across regarding anything or ask for something in your area from big to small. i.e if you want to have a new play area or if you want arena in your city.

If we (Bristol) had a similar website where people could vote on things in Bristol like for example, if we were to have a Arena built. The council put across the idea and give us costs and potential sites etc basically all the important bits and then people in the Greater Bristol area could log on (maybe with their postcode or may be via the census so we know people aren't getting unjust votes) and decide whether they would like to see it happen and where etc etc.

Would this show what people of Bristol really wanted? Would be better than a mayor (as it's one persons opinion) or maybe the mayor could implement something like this to give Bristolians more power on what happens?

If someone put in for a 200 floor building and most people in Bristol wanted to see this happen then regardless of what the council thought it should happen right? After all it's our city and the same would work if people didn't want Bristol Citys new stadium. Majority rule is better than minority right?

They tried that a few years back with the Askbristol website.

It seems to have now been merged into a general petitions website - http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/

There's plenty to see and do, easily on par with the likes of Birmingham and Manchester, probably even more so depending on your criteria, if you're bored here it's not gonna be much better anywhere else, as far as British cities go, major or minor.

We are short of a major venue for concerts etc, decent transport, and quality football. We have some beautiful buildings and parks, a harbour that is worth looking at, and plenty to eat and drink. Like any city, there are bits that are best avoided.

That Travelodge looks bloody good compared to what it could have been. The majority of new hotels in cities across the UK are dire, and this is a few notches up. Once again Bristol does well in getting decent buildings when many other places are lumbered with dross.

As for the person asking about Bristol - I'm a Londoner who lived the first 20 years in London then moved to Bristol for 5 years, and now back in London sadly. Bristol is fantastic and I'm going to move back no doubt about it. It has a great cultural and arts scene. London's got a lot but much is spread out and unless on the dole or a millionaire and live in zone 1 you can't afford to live within walking distance of many clubs, gig venues etc. It can take an age to get to and home again. Bristol club scene is great and there's numerous gigs. Costs are much lower as well.

What are you basing this on? I know we (Bristolians) are probably a little biased but come on. Where are you from? It's depends on what you want to do as I have mentioned before.

Technically you could say that about anywhere, if you hate architecture and cultural exhibits then Rome (Italy) would be pretty boring wouldn't it but saying there's nothing to do in Rome would simply be a stupid comment.

I would not say Bristol is walk-able at all. Area sizes of a UK cities is a tricky one because of metropolitan areas and county boundary but very crudely taking the sizes of UK cities, Bristol (City Only - 42sq Miles) is as large as, for example, Manchester (Metropolitan Area - 44sq miles). Other major cities in the UK usually have larger towns and even cities which come under their Metropolitan areas which is why they seem larger i.e Manchester has Stockport and Birmingham has Solihull amongst others.

Though Greater Bristol Area (Avon Area) doesn't legally exist, if it did it would be roughly 520sq miles which would make it the third largest populated urban area behind West Yorkshire (783sq miles), Greater London (607 sq miles) with Greater Manchester (493sq Miles) and West Midlands (348sq Miles).

Plus there's to many hills to climb anyway and you would get a little tired. Though he has a point about our transport system, it does indeed SUCK! :ohno:

I didn't say it was boring I said there isn't much to do and Bristol for visitors is small. You can walk everywhere you need to go or take 8/9 bus. What I meant was there are no major markets or major attractions that 'must be seen' e.g Manchester has more museums and show piece schemes such as Salford Quays and Granada studios, Liverpool has Albert Dock, Three Graces and museum of Slavery. I'm sorry but much as I love my home town it isn't in this league. Over the last 30 yrs it seems to have turned it's back on Birmingham for inspiration in architecture and instead turned to Reading. A friend from Manchester was visiting when Cabot Circus was being built and said it looked like the Debenhams in Stockport built in 1981 (from Bond Street). Rather Than compare Bristol to other UK cities we should be honest about it's charms. It doesn't have anything spectacular apart from Clifton Suspension Bridge but it has lots of good public realm particularly around docks, there is some good architecture (mostly pre 1910) there are lots of open spaces like downs, but its charm lies in it's laid back 'place to be' rather than 'place to see/do'. What I love about Bristol is lots of independent Cafe's, Good restaurants, mild Climate and not bad nightlife. It's Culture that makes Bristol not it's physical features. All that said it has huge potential to look amazing but is hampered by a conservative approach and lack of ambition. It is caught between the dead hand of the local business community on the right and the no to development on the Eco left. Which is why I left and have brought my talents to east London which is dynamic, innovative and has huge potential. Bristol needs to raise its aspiration to be a great city without destroying it's charms - a tough challenge I know.

I didn't say it was boring I said there isn't much to do and Bristol for visitors is small. You can walk everywhere you need to go or take 8/9 bus. What I meant was there are no major markets or major attractions that 'must be seen' e.g Manchester has more museums and show piece schemes such as Salford Quays and Granada studios, Liverpool has Albert Dock, Three Graces and museum of Slavery. I'm sorry but much as I love my home town it isn't in this league. Over the last 30 yrs it seems to have turned it's back on Birmingham for inspiration in architecture and instead turned to Reading. A friend from Manchester was visiting when Cabot Circus was being built and said it looked like the Debenhams in Stockport built in 1981 (from Bond Street). Rather Than compare Bristol to other UK cities we should be honest about it's charms. It doesn't have anything spectacular apart from Clifton Suspension Bridge but it has lots of good public realm particularly around docks, there is some good architecture (mostly pre 1910) there are lots of open spaces like downs, but its charm lies in it's laid back 'place to be' rather than 'place to see/do'. What I love about Bristol is lots of independent Cafe's, Good restaurants, mild Climate and not bad nightlife. It's Culture that makes Bristol not it's physical features. All that said it has huge potential to look amazing but is hampered by a conservative approach and lack of ambition. It is caught between the dead hand of the local business community on the right and the no to development on the Eco left. Which is why I left and have brought my talents to east London which is dynamic, innovative and has huge potential. Bristol needs to raise its aspiration to be a great city without destroying it's charms - a tough challenge I know.

You're quite right to say that Bristol is architecturally conservative. Some of its finest buildings (e.g. the Wills building on Park St) were 20-30 years out of date stylistically by the time they were completed. I think Bristol's charm physically is in some part based on its location on hills and an apparent refusal to keep up with the latest fashion.

There are few brilliant modern buildings in Bristol but some very decent ones, I think the transformation of the area around Quakers Friars is superb. I don't think that your friend's observation of what is after all the back of an unfinished building, is a sound basis for judging Cabot Circus. The general view of it seems to be that it is very successful in both design and commercial terms.

As for attractions, you didn't mention the SS Great Britain, the zoo or Explore which rather surprised me. I am glad Bristol is not comparable to Manchester, Birmingham or Liverpool. It is that difference that for me, is one of its greatest attractions.

I agree that Bristol is laid back - but it still has the highest GDP for any English city outside London. Maybe the secret to success is not to try too hard.

You're quite right to say that Bristol is architecturally conservative. Some of its finest buildings (e.g. the Wills building on Park St) were 20-30 years out of date stylistically by the time they were completed. I think Bristol's charm physically is in some part based on its location on hills and an apparent refusal to keep up with the latest fashion.

There are few brilliant modern buildings in Bristol but some very decent ones, I think the transformation of the area around Quakers Friars is superb. I don't think that your friend's observation of what is after all the back of an unfinished building, is a sound basis for judging Cabot Circus. The general view of it seems to be that it is very successful in both design and commercial terms.

As for attractions, you didn't mention the SS Great Britain, the zoo or Explore which rather surprised me. I am glad Bristol is not comparable to Manchester, Birmingham or Liverpool. It is that difference that for me, is one of its greatest attractions.

I agree that Bristol is laid back - but it still has the highest GDP for any English city outside London. Maybe the secret to success is not to try too hard.

I suppose it is subjective I would like to see Bristol punch above its weight and become bolder, more innovative and a bit more exciting, not define itself against the more dynamic Birmingham and Manchester with their aspirations for urban renewal. None of the major parties are prepared to stand up for Bristol in terms of its woeful lack of connectivity. Light rail is needed as soon as possible the BRT plans are at worst an assurance that things won't improve beyond that and at best a distraction.

I agree that Bristol is laid back - but it still has the highest GDP for any English city outside London. Maybe the secret to success is not to try too hard.

Working on it, Geoff, but not too hard.

Couldn't agree more about light rail, but with most of the money having to come from central government I don't think we stand much chance for another decade. Had the plan for the Parkway -City Centre tram line gone ahead 10 years ago then we would have been bidding for a second line/extension. As it stands BRT is the only game in town simply because it's cheaper not because it's better.

If we went to elections every four years instead of 1/3 of councillors every year and got an ITA, we might get more efficient local government.

I didn't say it was boring I said there isn't much to do and Bristol for visitors is small. You can walk everywhere you need to go or take 8/9 bus. What I meant was there are no major markets or major attractions that 'must be seen' e.g Manchester has more museums and show piece schemes such as Salford Quays and Granada studios, Liverpool has Albert Dock, Three Graces and museum of Slavery. I'm sorry but much as I love my home town it isn't in this league. Over the last 30 yrs it seems to have turned it's back on Birmingham for inspiration in architecture and instead turned to Reading. A friend from Manchester was visiting when Cabot Circus was being built and said it looked like the Debenhams in Stockport built in 1981 (from Bond Street). Rather Than compare Bristol to other UK cities we should be honest about it's charms. It doesn't have anything spectacular apart from Clifton Suspension Bridge but it has lots of good public realm particularly around docks, there is some good architecture (mostly pre 1910) there are lots of open spaces like downs, but its charm lies in it's laid back 'place to be' rather than 'place to see/do'. What I love about Bristol is lots of independent Cafe's, Good restaurants, mild Climate and not bad nightlife. It's Culture that makes Bristol not it's physical features. All that said it has huge potential to look amazing but is hampered by a conservative approach and lack of ambition. It is caught between the dead hand of the local business community on the right and the no to development on the Eco left. Which is why I left and have brought my talents to east London which is dynamic, innovative and has huge potential. Bristol needs to raise its aspiration to be a great city without destroying it's charms - a tough challenge I know.

Everyone's opinion to themselves I suppose.

I don't agree with what you say but then that's just my opinion. Following like sheep building tall structures trying to be a clone to (lets face it) New York and Chicago is not what I call forward thinking and aspirational and it's not the be all and end all of a city. Dubai is a copying clone, though somehow they have been able to carve out their own little legacy, mind you they really do push boundaries.

All major cities do need to keep up to date with "The World", Yes but that does not mean lets loose our identity. Below I will try and answer some of your gripes/criticisms about Bristol (these are simply things you have mentioned, not that you'll accept them) and this is not to take anything away from the places you mentioned, (BTW: The Royal Liver Building (Liverpool) is one of my favourites in UK):

Museums - I don't think you looked this up before making this comment, but including the new £27million M-Shed there are countless large and small museums including all sorts of cultural and artistic exhibits. (The Leo Da Vinci exhibit is coming here I think too). Royal Art Gallery is also worth a visit and Bristol Museum and Art (Where Banksy's show was, I missed it though :ohno:).

Docks - I think you'll find that Bristol has one of the most historic docks in the country. As mentioned SS Great Britain is also there (which I think won the Accolade of being the best cultural exhibit in the country, or something like that). There's also The Matthew (John Cabot's Ship).

If we are adding places which are close proximity to larger cities (Salford to Manchester) then Bristol has Bath! :nuts: - I think that's: Game, Set and Match! :lol:

I do hate our council sometimes but who doesn't hate their own council at some point? They don't allow really tall buildings but then Singapore has a cap of 250ft I believe so what would you call them? Just because a city doesn't build tall buildings (which you call architecture) does not mean that they are not ambitious. I must point you again to Paris and Rome! Architecture does not have to be tall, bold and brash all the time. Good architecture can also be trying to fit with its surroundings, good classic design and construction with 21st century twists. You think the Shard in London does that, looks silly next to tower bridge and the London Council Building (on the Embankment) looks much better I reckon.

Your comment on Cabot Circus's Design - This has been nominated and won numerous awards for its originality, design and sustainability, so would seem your on your own in this case, well you and your friend :). Are you sure he didn't see the old buildings (Like C&A) that we were knocking down and thought that's what Bristol is building?

I am sorry to say this, as I have spent a lot of time around Bow, Mile End and Stratford and other parts of London and its really not good. London is our Capital which is why we (UK Central Government) spends a fortune on this area (Zone 1) and simply this is why it's really nice. If we were all allowed to spend the sort of money London gets then we would all be able to build it in the centre of our cities. East London is a dive and lucky for them they have been able to steal money from the rest of the country in order to hold the Olympics. Money that the rest of the country produces (as well as London of course) goes on regenerating a desolate area of London in order to bring people in to spend money in that same area. A great way to spend our money wouldn't you say. Again if Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham or Liverpool were allowed to hold the Olympics and have investment of Billions of Pounds then we would be ambitious and forward thinking I suppose.

As mentioned before Bristol has the highest GDP outside of London and also dips it's hand in the Governments Central fund a lot less than others. We must be doing something right, Surly? :lol:

This is again just my opinion and you don't have to take note nor accept any of it, just as I don't yours.

That's enough of a rant from me though... :bash:

P.S

Over the last 30 yrs it seems to have turned it's back on Birmingham for inspiration in architecture
^^^^^^:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:^^^^^^

I am sorry to say this, as I have spent a lot of time around Bow, Mile End and Stratford and other parts of London and its really not good.

Hello, I haven't been on the Bristol forum before. Nice to meet y'all. I have a flat in Bethnal Green and lived there for a number of years before moving to Bristol (work relocation). I think the point is that there is vibrancy, creativity, originality and energy there. It feels like things are moving forward. Bristol on the other hand feels like it is stalling. It's a fair point about the money being spent in Stratford, but let's not make excuses. Bristol has also had plenty of opportunities move itself forward yet keeps dragging its feet - Tram, football stadia, arena, cricket....

No, they're still largely shitholes, Stratford at least. But they are run under a far better local government system (in addition to just being in London, in spite or because of that) than Bristol is . The local councillors in Bristol nor Whitehall are particularly concerned with changing the current system the latter city has.

Hello, I haven't been on the Bristol forum before. Nice to meet y'all. I have a flat in Bethnal Green and lived there for a number of years before moving to Bristol (work relocation). I think the point is that there is vibrancy, creativity, originality and energy there. It feels like things are moving forward. Bristol on the other hand feels like it is stalling. It's a fair point about the money being spent in Stratford, but let's not make excuses. Bristol has also had plenty of opportunities move itself forward yet keeps dragging its feet - Tram, football stadia, arena, cricket....

Hey, You live in Bristol and never come on our forum. Participate dude would be nice to hear another point of view.

I understand about the Bristol Council in fact I agree. Really frustrates me when the Minority are listened to over Majority! Football stadia (hopefully will happen both Rovers and City) along with Arena and Transport are massive issues, and I don't deny that.

Parts of London (unfortunately especially east London) are rated as some of the worst place to live in the UK. I'm not saying it's all bad but let's be honest the Westfield Mall would not have been built along with all the other infrastructure if we (the whole UK) would not have spent billions on the Olympics! I understand that London is our capital but when cities provide a lot of money for the central fund and then we don't get any money when we want/need it yet we are able to spend silly amounts of improving our Capital, which is already heavily draining the pot! Sounds Unfair to me!

My argument before was that saying there's nothing to do in Bristol especially compared to other cities is rubbish especially being one of the top tourist destinations city wise in the UK outside London (possibly explains all the hotels).

I hope that the council here (Bristol) is sorted. Having continuity and stamping out this silly "minority rule" where a Single Dog walker can scupper a multi million pound stadium plan is crucial! To be fair the City Stadium thing is not BCC's fault it's more central Government policy (Town Green Law thing)!

I don't think it's ever made sense to me to always concentrate all that's good and all our money around one single entity (London in our case). Maybe or hopefully with BBC axing and leaving London will provide a catalyst for others to follow suit and maybe we can share the wealth!

I defintely think BCC has consistently failed Bristol and has shown utter lack of vision. In the pre-recession years there were so many infrastructure projects and other projects, like the touted Arena that would have been so worthwhile.

Of course, there have been exciting developments/projects that have come from the private sector in Bristol - others not so good. For the council to display apparent unwilling in areas from public transport to sound planning is not good at all.

Couldn't agree more about light rail, but with most of the money having to come from central government I don't think we stand much chance for another decade. Had the plan for the Parkway -City Centre tram line gone ahead 10 years ago then we would have been bidding for a second line/extension. As it stands BRT is the only game in town simply because it's cheaper not because it's better.

If we went to elections every four years instead of 1/3 of councillors every year and got an ITA, we might get more efficient local government.

Whilst not wanting to get political, today's papers report that Bristol will get a referendum on whether or not we want a an elected Mayor. Remembering H'Angus the monkey in Hartlepool, and how he did a not bad shot of his unexpected term of office, I could be tempted. BUT:
1) I would probably have to give my job up first,
2) I know nothing about running a city, and
3) I wouldn't want to look a pillock in front of the few friends I have left.

2 and 3 don't seem to have stopped anyone in Bristol, but I shall ask each candidate "Do you support the creation of an ITA for the Greater Bristol area?", and support whoever says Yes.

Hey, You live in Bristol and never come on our forum. Participate dude would be nice to hear another point of view.

Thanks Gee 31, I'd like to get involved more but time is of the essence with a baby in the house!

@ Delirium - my experience of living there is obviously different to yours. The east is not perfect, but it's certainly vibrant - in fact that's probably its charm

Whilst not wanting to get political, today's papers report that Bristol will get a referendum on whether or not we want a an elected Mayor. Remembering H'Angus the monkey in Hartlepool, and how he did a not bad shot of his unexpected term of office, I could be tempted. BUT:
1) I would probably have to give my job up first,
2) I know nothing about running a city, and
3) I wouldn't want to look a pillock in front of the few friends I have left.

2 and 3 don't seem to have stopped anyone in Bristol, but I shall ask each candidate "Do you support the creation of an ITA for the Greater Bristol area?", and support whoever says Yes.

I'll vote for you!

Actually, I was chatting to a fellow airfield campaigner this evening who was saying he might stand! TBH, I wouldn't vote for him. He's a bit of a nutjob.

Nut jobs make good mayors. Well, a certain type of nut job does anyway..

A mayor would be good I think but he will only be good if he thinks like the voters!

If we had a mayor would allow "higher" development and get bigger scale projects i.e a Arena, the stadia, transport he's bound to upset someone. Obviously we can't keep everyone happy, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, but what we can do is have a MAJORITY RULE nation as this way most people are listened to!

My Top three projects that I would like to be put forward:

1. ITA - and get stagecoach in to kick First up the backside and give some competition. I would want improved rail and to be honest I would now stick with the showcase thing just integrate it with rail etc...

2. Arena and Major sports stadia to go though. This includes Rovers, City and GCCC.

3. Centre Sorted out. I cant believe with the amount of history we have the centre looks so rubbish. I would have the river bought right into the city.

SIMPLES!!!

I'm sure there's more important things and projects which other people would find more important like housing across the city, Stokes Croft, St Pauls, The Filton Aerospace fiasco, Frys, Jobs, having taller buildings, Commercial and other private ventures. Above are just my choices.

I cant believe with the amount of history we have the centre looks so rubbish. I would have the river bought right into the city.

Whilst I wouldn't say the centre looks 'rubbish', I agree there are parts which could be improved. Funny you should mention the river being brought into the city, as I was thinking the same thing the other day as I drove past the fountains. Can't remember the exact reason/excuse given against extending the visible frome, but think it mainly boiled down to costings (although it was probably dressed up as something else).
The fountains never worked properly, and those tall illuminated totems...what are they exactly? Does anyone actually know what they represent or what they are meant to be? Who passed that design? It's absolute poo.
Imagine that part of the centre filled with yachts, clippers and barges, it would be postcard spectacular and would boost tourism immensely alone.
There certainly has been a catalogue if missed opportunities in bristol. Please don't even get me started on the harbourside. Please.

Now on to transport. As usual, I've been day dreaming again, day dreaming about something a bit different. We seem to have debated brt/tram/showcase bus to exhaustion. Now I dont know if anyone else has been monitoring goings on in the london olympics threads, but I've kept a keen eye on the greenwich cable car project. It has been quite roundly criticised by many as a folly and waste of time/money, but it has also gathered many admirers now that the beautiful and elegant towers are going up, and people are already speculating on expansion. I was just wondering, could we have cable cars in bristol? There are many reasons they would not fit - most notably cost and distance, as they couldn't possibly cover the wider bristol area. But as a quick, attractive city centre alternative, they are perfect for a hilly/mountainous topography, are better at navigating waterways than bridges or tunnels as it is much cheaper to run cables then build a bridge or dig a tunnel and can cross at almost any point as they do not depend on a linking road infrastructure. Almost perfect for a 'hilly venice' such as bristol. You wouldn't have disruption for utility maintenance either.
You could just hop on and hop off using an oyster card through turnstiles and the cars would never actually stop, just revolve around the turn station as they do at ski resorts, so they'd run like clockwork. Be interesting going from st augustine's up park street to the triangle late on a sat night mind!
Too simple, too good. will never happen. Just dreaming...

Whilst I wouldn't say the centre looks 'rubbish', I agree there are parts which could be improved. Funny you should mention the river being brought into the city, as I was thinking the same thing the other day as I drove past the fountains. Can't remember the exact reason/excuse given against extending the visible frome, but think it mainly boiled down to costings (although it was probably dressed up as something else).

Well, when the redid the Centre at the Millennium, and everyone was shouting at them to open up the Frome more, the Council said they couldn't do it because they'll need to reroute the roads too much around the centre. Remember back then there was the dual carriageway still cutting through Queen Sq. But they actually went and rerouted the roads anyway so I don't see why they couldn't have opened it up to at least as far as the Colston tower.

Now, the excuse they're given is that the old harbour walls, which are presumably still buried under there somewhere, will not be strong enough to cope with the full harbour water and would take a lot of engineering to fix it.

Now, the excuse they're given is that the old harbour walls, which are presumably still buried under there somewhere, will not be strong enough to cope with the full harbour water and would take a lot of engineering to fix it.

Ah yes that's it. Pity it took XXX amount of time and money in contractor revisits over the following years to rectify fountains that wouldn't spout water..

Now on to transport. As usual, I've been day dreaming again, day dreaming about something a bit different. We seem to have debated brt/tram/showcase bus to exhaustion. Now I dont know if anyone else has been monitoring goings on in the london olympics threads, but I've kept a keen eye on the greenwich cable car project. It has been quite roundly criticised by many as a folly and waste of time/money, but it has also gathered many admirers now that the beautiful and elegant towers are going up, and people are already speculating on expansion. I was just wondering, could we have cable cars in bristol? There are many reasons they would not fit - most notably cost and distance, as they couldn't possibly cover the wider bristol area. But as a quick, attractive city centre alternative, they are perfect for a hilly/mountainous topography, are better at navigating waterways than bridges or tunnels as it is much cheaper to run cables then build a bridge or dig a tunnel and can cross at almost any point as they do not depend on a linking road infrastructure. Almost perfect for a 'hilly venice' such as bristol. You wouldn't have disruption for utility maintenance either.
You could just hop on and hop off using an oyster card through turnstiles and the cars would never actually stop, just revolve around the turn station as they do at ski resorts, so they'd run like clockwork. Be interesting going from st augustine's up park street to the triangle late on a sat night mind!
Too simple, too good. will never happen. Just dreaming...

Would be good but too slow if you ask me though you make a good point about not having to rip up the infrastructure and pipes etc below ground. What about a MONORAIL? Doesn't that run on raised "rail" like what you would find at Disney Land etc? Would look cool aswell :banana:
I think Seattle in USA has something like it!

Mono rail would only be more suitable on a much larger sized scheme. It would have to cover the greater bristol area a well to make it feasible, but it's too big, clunky, expensive and downright butt ugly. I've seen them in bangkok and kuala lumpur and they involve utilising the central reservation on major roads which isn't gonna happen in an old cramped complicated city like bristol. It would require loads of concrete and not ideal for going up hills and over rivers.
To be fair, I actually think cable cars would be faster than buses. They can travel at a constant, and dont ever need to completely stop or wait for a queue of people to get off, then another load to get on and pay. There could be easy quick inter change to travel in another direction as well without having to wait for another bus (which might not be scheduled for half an hour, out you might miss).
Looks like I'm gonna have to get creative (or sad - depending on your stance) and whip up a render or two!

http://dennishouse.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/seattle-etc-monorail.jpg

Doesn't look that ugly and for me Vs all the disruption of underground etc it would be more viable. Cable cars are not big enough, you would need loads on a line and would not look right imho.

Monorails could easily follow all major trunk roads and obviously have "sky stations". These are very popular in USA where they have huge sprawling cities and they seem to be a success there as a mass transport method.

I'll vote for you!

Actually, I was chatting to a fellow airfield campaigner this evening who was saying he might stand! TBH, I wouldn't vote for him. He's a bit of a nutjob.

Who says I'm not a bit of a nutjob? I shan't be throwing my hat into the ring, no fear of that.

On the subject of reopening the centre, it would lose walking space, cost a fortune, and provide a long drop into cold, dirty water to be filled with old bikes, supermarket trollies, drunks, careless drivers, Tesco bags ... you get the drift. The old photos with ships masts outside St Mary on the Quay, with a couple of horses and carts passing, are very evocative, but in the past.

Jesus. That's a depressive view of the world you have boyamIjealous. Your reasoning is a little defeatist. You're alluding to the drunken debauchery that tarnishes st augustine s after hours. The point is they should have returned the river to st augustines in the first place which surely wouldn't have cost a whole lot more than the works they under took involving the cobbled resurfacing of the whole area and then the fountains debacle.. This new format is in my view the actual cause of the problems down there, there are now perfect conditions.
An extended harbour would have eliminated those conditions.
Full of shopping trolleys (where from, the hippodrome?), cars from careless drivers(yeah, coz that happens all the time where theres a road near a river doesn't it?), and rubbish (maybe a bit, but that's the same anywhere and the harbour master picks it up).
The transformation would've been total, as you'd have had restaurants opening for the boat owners/visitors instead of strip joints and bars.

If you actually look up at the buildings along St Augustines Parade they're actually a quite nice row of buildings that wouldn't look out of place along the canals of Amsterdam.

Unfortunately, they're blighted by having the dodgy fast food restaurants at their base. Opening up the harbour could regenerate this area as well and create a few 'tourist-worthy' places in those buildings.

And as there isn't a problem with the rest of the harbour with rubbish being thrown in it, or people falling in when drunk, there's no reason to suspect that reopening the harbour to outside St Marys-on-the-Quay would have these problems.

In other news, the One Dove Lane regeneration scheme in St. Paul's seems to have been given the go-ahead. No 'scraper unfortunately, but at least a bunch of decent-height office buildings next to the M32.

In other news, the One Dove Lane regeneration scheme in St. Paul's seems to have been given the go-ahead. No 'scraper unfortunately, but at least a bunch of decent-height office buildings next to the M32.

How high will the new offices be?

And as there isn't a problem with the rest of the harbour with rubbish being thrown in it, or people falling in when drunk, there's no reason to suspect that reopening the harbour to outside St Marys-on-the-Quay would have these problems.

My thoughts exactly!!! I think opening the harbour would give the whole area a new lease of life and one that won't need to be touched probably ever again depending on how well it's done. When those silly fountains went in I am sue there was a life span for them and I don't think opening the harbour won't ever get old or out of style.

In other news, the One Dove Lane regeneration scheme in St. Paul's seems to have been given the go-ahead. No 'scraper unfortunately, but at least a bunch of decent-height office buildings next to the M32.

Is there a story relating to this which has been released?

@Westendwilly: I think its a max of about 10 stories!!!

Cheonggyecheon in Seoul is a brilliant example of what can be done. Not that I'd expect anything like this in Briz anytime soon, but it shows what can be done.

http://vaiguoren.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cheonggyecheon_beforeafter.jpg

http://www.visitseoul.net/visit2007en/_upload/article/2007/03/article_22174118304.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/66/183546240_3517041175.jpg

It seems everyone I talk to now is going on about how Bristol needs a tram system or equivalent alternative. Every time I think about it I get annoyed becuse it was such a wasted opportunity and I just hate the busses so much. I've only been back in Bristol for 5 months and I'm already getting fed up with the place.
I agree with sentiment Bristol isn't that exciting and it often completely dies at night and a lot of tours ignore the place. I really love the design for cabot circus and can't see how it's got so many critics because it's improved that area tenfold. It's a shame that park street seems to have more shops closing and I swear they all get filled with coffee and supermarket chains these days, hah.
Bristol could be much greater; but I don't see anything particularly exciting happening here anytime soon (the thought of a 600 footer by the M32 was nice) and hopefully I'll be heading back London way come the autumn. I visited Manchester a couple times recently and even found that to be much more vibrant.

By the way, what is that construction going up opposite castlemead with the eclipse logo (but not the ecplipse building, obviously)? This may be obvious, but I can't find any info on it.

And as there isn't a problem with the rest of the harbour with rubbish being thrown in it, or people falling in when drunk, there's no reason to suspect that reopening the harbour to outside St Marys-on-the-Quay would have these problems.

Anybody else remember the Dead Dog Boat?

I guess we just have to wait for Barbara Janke & others to grow old(er) and die? :|

By the way, what is that construction going up opposite castlemead with the eclipse logo (but not the ecplipse building, obviously)? This may be obvious, but I can't find any info on it.

Unfortunately, it's nothing. Its just the marketing building for the Eclipse building.

Although the tower was finished externally for when Cabot Circus opened a few years ago, the tower itself wasn't completed inside and no-one lives there yet.

They're actuallly finishing it inside now and you'll be able to actually buy a place soon - but they need a small temporary building to actually show off the place and give the sales guys somewhere to sit.

Cheonggyecheon in Seoul is a brilliant example of what can be done. Not that I'd expect anything like this in Briz anytime soon, but it shows what can be done.

http://vaiguoren.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cheonggyecheon_beforeafter.jpg

http://www.visitseoul.net/visit2007en/_upload/article/2007/03/article_22174118304.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/66/183546240_3517041175.jpg

THAT'S BRILLIANT!!! CHANGE FOR THE BETTER!!!

There is much misinformation on this forum and too many Bristolian Nationalists who won't countenance constructive criticism and indeed a reality check. The UK has not paid for the Olympics - London has, it exports £27 billion to UK economy annually. Furthermore Stagecoach won't compete with First because the profit margins are too low.

I guess we just have to wait for Barbara Janke & others to grow old(er) and die? :|

We could just vote the hopeless main parties out of office and replace them with independents who actually give a shit? Sadly, people are bone-fucking-idle and will always vote for the dreary old parties who are in the laps of businesses.

There is much misinformation on this forum and too many Bristolian Nationalists who won't countenance constructive criticism and indeed a reality check. The UK has not paid for the Olympics - London has, it exports £27 billion to UK economy annually. Furthermore Stagecoach won't compete with First because the profit margins are too low.

Actually, First group make pretty respectable margins. It's current operating margin, after tax (on revenues of £6.43bn) is about 11%. Hardly worrying in this climate.

If you actually look up at the buildings along St Augustines Parade they're actually a quite nice row of buildings that wouldn't look out of place along the canals of Amsterdam.

Unfortunately, they're blighted by having the dodgy fast food restaurants at their base. Opening up the harbour could regenerate this area as well and create a few 'tourist-worthy' places in those buildings.

And as there isn't a problem with the rest of the harbour with rubbish being thrown in it, or people falling in when drunk, there's no reason to suspect that reopening the harbour to outside St Marys-on-the-Quay would have these problems.

I suspect the reason the harbour wasn't reopened isn't based on aesthetics good or bad, but on space. Bristol's public transport be it rail or tram based, has to go through the centre.

With the harbour re-opened it would be horribly cramped for both pedestrians and public transport. The harbour was partly covered over in the nineteenth century (hence the Tramways Centre) and I really doubt that a reopened harbour would leave enough space to develop a pleasant environment for both people on foot and the necessary buses/trams.

There is much misinformation on this forum and too many Bristolian Nationalists who won't countenance constructive criticism and indeed a reality check. The UK has not paid for the Olympics - London has, it exports £27 billion to UK economy annually. Furthermore Stagecoach won't compete with First because the profit margins are too low.

If you had facts behind what you say then cool, but you simply chat shit!

In other posts (if you read them) we (The Bristol Nationalists :lol:) agree that amongst others issues Stadia/Arena and Transport problems are a major drawback in Bristol however this all stems from you saying there's "nothing" to do if Bristol and now that we present a argument you call us Nationalist!!! LOL.

No matter what London Contributes (and if you check the posts I did say that London do indeed contribute, of course they do, it's our capital) you are seriously deluded if you think that a single city fully pays for the Olympics no matter where it is, it's the city, country (Central Government) as a whole along with major corporate and worldwide sponsors!

Unfortunately, it's nothing. Its just the marketing building for the Eclipse building.

Although the tower was finished externally for when Cabot Circus opened a few years ago, the tower itself wasn't completed inside and no-one lives there yet.

They're actuallly finishing it inside now and you'll be able to actually buy a place soon - but they need a small temporary building to actually show off the place and give the sales guys somewhere to sit.

Makes sense now... I cannot believe it's still empty!

Makes sense now... I cannot believe it's still empty!

Wasn't it going to be a cycling hub/cafe or something? I think there was a render which looked quite cool.

Doesn't look that ugly and for me Vs all the disruption of underground etc it would be more viable. Cable cars are not big enough, you would need loads on a line and would not look right imho.

Monorails could easily follow all major trunk roads and obviously have "sky stations". These are very popular in USA where they have huge sprawling cities and they seem to be a success there as a mass transport method.

I think judging by the second paragraph we are perhaps talking about two different things. I am talking about a centre only high frequency rapid transport system with terminus's on the city borders where people living outside the city could park and ride from. You are talking about a wider network for greater bristol I believe.
Mono is ugly. You need a continuous concrete track raised at four metres above the ground. It blocks all the views where it passes and would be at complete odds with bristol's character, topography and complexity imo.
I cannot see how you came to the conclusion that cc's would not be big enough and that you would need 'loads to a line'. The opposite would be true. They would be arriving every five seconds, holding ten people each, constantly. No other form of transport would get close capacity wise. There would be no queues at all, even at peak times. Out of peak hours you could expect to have a car to yourself on most occasions.
Let me paint you a picture:
You arrive at long ashton park and ride at 8.3o am, park the car and walk the hundred yards to the terminus/station. You hardly need break stride as you flash your contact-less debit card at the electronic turnstile (or put your oyster card in) and walk through. You take the escalator up to the first floor and buy and paper from the shop before stepping onto the slowly revolving turntable where a handful of people are boarding a car (which moves at the same slow speed as the edge of the table, and is flush with no gap). You wait patiently - there is no rush or scramble - another car is about to meet the table, and you and few others stroll over, enter the car and sit down. Five seconds later the doors close and the turn table drops away as the car leaves the station, accelerating to 15mph and climbing forty feet into the sky. It circumnavigates the new stadium then crosses the new cut before dropping and slowing to enter the exchange at cumberland basin where a man gets off onto the turntable to catch a car on the opposite side of the table on the clifton line(which does what cable cars do best and climbs straight up the side of the clifton gorge). We continue on along the river and then cross it near the ss great britain and take in the great views in the beautiful morning sunshine as we head straight up the harbourside promenade and into the centre station at st augustines where people are arriving and departing on three different lines, where you hop off and look to grab a bite to eat before starting work. It is still only 8.46am.

Actually, the Bristol harbour and hills would be very well suited to something like that. Cablecars are actually quite cheap as well. The only construction is the pylons and stations - just look at how fast the one in London is going up; started in about August and penned to be running on 1st May.
It would shift an awful lot of traffic off the Cumberland basin system.

I'm actually pretty opposed to the London cable car setup - I think it's a waste of money and is only going up so that Boris has something to point at for his re-election despite the fact that the money being wasted on it could've been spent on better transport improvements (for example - the cancelled foot/cycle bridge further up the Thames between Canary Wharf and Rotherhithe).

I don't think it'll be a useful link - after the Olympics there's just no demand for a link between the o2 and Excel so it'll be little more than just a tourist attraction. I also have a few concerns about safety in the cars themselves. At least if something happens on a train you can move to another carriage - imagine being stuck in a cable car at night with just 1 other stranger? Would you feel safe?

Schmeek - you idea does sound good though. However, I think people generally wouldn't like a cable car network floating over their homes and offices. Still, it's now just as likely to be built than a tram network....

I think judging by the second paragraph we are perhaps talking about two different things. I am talking about a centre only high frequency rapid transport system with terminus's on the city borders where people living outside the city could park and ride from. You are talking about a wider network for greater bristol I believe.
Mono is ugly. You need a continuous concrete track raised at four metres above the ground. It blocks all the views where it passes and would be at complete odds with bristol's character, topography and complexity imo.
I cannot see how you came to the conclusion that cc's would not be big enough and that you would need 'loads to a line'. The opposite would be true. They would be arriving every five seconds, holding ten people each, constantly. No other form of transport would get close capacity wise. There would be no queues at all, even at peak times. Out of peak hours you could expect to have a car to yourself on most occasions.
Let me paint you a picture:
You arrive at long ashton park and ride at 8.3o am, park the car and walk the hundred yards to the terminus/station. You hardly need break stride as you flash your contact-less debit card at the electronic turnstile (or put your oyster card in) and walk through. You take the escalator up to the first floor and buy and paper from the shop before stepping onto the slowly revolving turntable where a handful of people are boarding a car (which moves at the same slow speed as the edge of the table, and is flush with no gap). You wait patiently - there is no rush or scramble - another car is about to meet the table, and you and few others stroll over, enter the car and sit down. Five seconds later the doors close and the turn table drops away as the car leaves the station, accelerating to 15mph and climbing forty feet into the sky. It circumnavigates the new stadium then crosses the new cut before dropping and slowing to enter the exchange at cumberland basin where a man gets off onto the turntable to catch a car on the opposite side of the table on the clifton line(which does what cable cars do best and climbs straight up the side of the clifton gorge). We continue on along the river and then cross it near the ss great britain and take in the great views in the beautiful morning sunshine as we head straight up the harbourside promenade and into the centre station at st augustines where people are arriving and departing on three different lines, where you hop off and look to grab a bite to eat before starting work. It is still only 8.46am.

I was totally thinking differently to your idea of Cable Cars.

Under what you have just said it makes sense I suppose. When ever I am on a cable car it feels slow but maybe this can be battled by new designs.

If it ever gets built I am going to take that exact journey you have just described. :lol: Sounds great!!!

Are there any cities worldwide which use cable cars for mass passenger transport (except ski resorts)?

Makes sense now... I cannot believe it's still empty!

They have sold 50 per cent of them already, but they have not finished kitting out all the floors.

I think judging by the second paragraph we are perhaps talking about two different things. I am talking about a centre only high frequency rapid transport system with terminus's on the city borders where people living outside the city could park and ride from. You are talking about a wider network for greater bristol I believe.
Mono is ugly. You need a continuous concrete track raised at four metres above the ground. It blocks all the views where it passes and would be at complete odds with bristol's character, topography and complexity imo.
I cannot see how you came to the conclusion that cc's would not be big enough and that you would need 'loads to a line'. The opposite would be true. They would be arriving every five seconds, holding ten people each, constantly. No other form of transport would get close capacity wise. There would be no queues at all, even at peak times. Out of peak hours you could expect to have a car to yourself on most occasions.
Let me paint you a picture:
You arrive at long ashton park and ride at 8.3o am, park the car and walk the hundred yards to the terminus/station. You hardly need break stride as you flash your contact-less debit card at the electronic turnstile (or put your oyster card in) and walk through. You take the escalator up to the first floor and buy and paper from the shop before stepping onto the slowly revolving turntable where a handful of people are boarding a car (which moves at the same slow speed as the edge of the table, and is flush with no gap). You wait patiently - there is no rush or scramble - another car is about to meet the table, and you and few others stroll over, enter the car and sit down. Five seconds later the doors close and the turn table drops away as the car leaves the station, accelerating to 15mph and climbing forty feet into the sky. It circumnavigates the new stadium then crosses the new cut before dropping and slowing to enter the exchange at cumberland basin where a man gets off onto the turntable to catch a car on the opposite side of the table on the clifton line(which does what cable cars do best and climbs straight up the side of the clifton gorge). We continue on along the river and then cross it near the ss great britain and take in the great views in the beautiful morning sunshine as we head straight up the harbourside promenade and into the centre station at st augustines where people are arriving and departing on three different lines, where you hop off and look to grab a bite to eat before starting work. It is still only 8.46am.

It's a lovely image. I agree Mono Rail is very ugly from street level and will not be a good idea.

I was totally thinking differently to your idea of Cable Cars.

Under what you have just said it makes sense I suppose. When ever I am on a cable car it feels slow but maybe this can be battled by new designs.

If it ever gets built I am going to take that exact journey you have just described. :lol: Sounds great!!!

Are there any cities worldwide which use cable cars for mass passenger transport (except ski resorts)?

Yep, Portland (Oregon, USA) Medellin (Columbia), and Caracas (Venezuela) amongst a few others. These are all recent, all used by commuters, and all integrated with the rest of the public transport system. After all, Boris had to get the idea from somewhere. He doesn't seem to have many original ones.

The Portland system cost about £40 million for a 1 Km route. It opened late 2006, and carried its millionth passenger within the first year. Look at the picture on the homepage (http://www.portlandtram.org) and tell me it's not a cut and paste between Cumberland Basin and the Avon Gorge Hotel!

I have read the various "debates" on the difference between London and Bristol on this forum recently and would like to make a few points of my own.

Both are fantastic cities but we need to appreciate they are on completely different scales. London has a population of over 8 million and has 14 million within 1 hour 20 minutes commuting time. Bristol has a population of approx. 600,000 and perhaps 5/6 million within 1 hour 20 mins.

To discuss the lack of "things to do" in Bristol is pointless. Of course London has more "stuff" going on because it has 8 million citizens to entertain one another. Bristol has a huge depth of things going on for a city it's size.

Our company have offices in Bristol and London and I spend a lot of time in both cities. I personally prefer Bristol to live in but I do love London's scale, confidence and world class standing but ultimately this is personal preference. Perhaps the friendly nature of Bristol wins the day for me.

This is a forum to debate development not the merits of cities. Bristol cannot be compared to London but should be compared to other large regional cities like Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle but again Bristol is still at the moment a lot smaller but growing and is a welathy city.

Bristol is very rich in culture, arts, music and has community and belonging as well as a national standing for the promotion of alternative industries and outstanding legal and financial services. Bristol is also a very successful commercial city with outstanding industry, ground breaking science/research and impressive private sector ambition and vision. Bristol has also been voted the most competitive city in all sectors outside London, which is very promising for the future.

However, the lack of vision at Bristol City Council needs to be addressed. I read an article in a national newspaper specifically about the recent stadium decisions and the impact it has on Bristol’s reputation nationally. I have friends who think Bristol is run by a bunch of conservatives from the 19th century!!! The recent decisions with BCFC, BRFC and GCC are a joke!!

I love the idea of a cable car running across the cumberland basis to Harbourside stopping at SS Great Britain, cabot tower and then the suspension bridge.

However, the lack of vision at Bristol City Council needs to be addressed. I read an article in a national newspaper specifically about the recent stadium decisions and the impact it has on Bristol’s reputation nationally. I have friends who think Bristol is run by a bunch of conservatives from the 19th century!!! The recent decisions with BCFC, BRFC and GCC are a joke!!


The decision by the councillors over GCC was certainly odd, but they are not to blame where the two football clubs are concerned. Rovers have never had a planning application turned down by the city council and were given permission to redevelop the Memorial Stadium. Rovers are planning to go to UWE because there is more room and the finances work better. City were given permission to build a new ground on green belt land and its is hardly the council's fault that some locals are using the town green law to hold things up. In fact it is the city council who will have to appear at the judicial review to defend their decision not to follow the inspector's recommendation which was to designate the whole Ashton Vale site as a town green.

The decision by the councillors over GCC was certainly odd, but they are not to blame where the two football clubs are concerned. Rovers have never had a planning application turned down by the city council and were given permission to redevelop the Memorial Stadium. Rovers are planning to go to UWE because there is more room and the finances work better. City were given permission to build a new ground on green belt land and its is hardly the council's fault that some locals are using the town green law to hold things up. In fact it is the city council who will have to appear at the judicial review to defend their decision not to follow the inspector's recommendation which was to designate the whole Ashton Vale site as a town green.

Geoff, do you work for the council?

I understood that Bristol Rovers and Bristol City have had applications turned down on their current grounds for change of use, forcing both teams to revisting time and time again very expensive planning applications and professional consultants. This revenue from their current assets is crucial in both cases for the new stadium plans or I'm I mistaken?

Geoff, do you work for the council?

I understood that Bristol Rovers and Bristol City have had applications turned down on their current grounds for change of use, forcing both teams to revisting time and time again very expensive planning applications and professional consultants. This revenue from their current assets is crucial in both cases for the new stadium plans or I'm I mistaken?

Unfortunatley I think your mistaken here... Though a little "HOOP JUMPING" took place during the applications for Sainsburys and Ashton Vale they did get the go ahead. It's the blasted NIMBY'S who are bring Bristol down in this department and as mentioned the council are even prepared to go to court to defend the whole thing. I can't understand how 10's of acres can be classed as a Town Green? maybe a few acres or so etc but 40? That takes the piss!

The GCCC decision is all down to our silly council and they should be held accountable for their backwards thinking. I still believe we need a Mayor who is forward thinking and hopefully he/she puts the power back into the hands of the people!

I havent referenced my facts, but they are all in the public domaine, I do not as you say 'chat shit', I am arguing from a point of fact. That said, this is isnt about Bristol V London, they are not comparable. I am perhaps suggesting that some people who participate in this forum should look around at other places and observe successful urban renewal and draw some conclusions about how Bristol could move forward with some imagination perhaps something which is lacking at the moment.

I agree with your sentiments, there are people on this forum who cannot see the reality that Bristol might have a successful economy but that doesnt translate into a vibrant interesting place, what frustrates me is that there is a lack of ambition but so much potential. East London might be poor and has a more degraded urban realm, but at least there is a willingness to change and improve. Not something you'd find in Bristol. Hence the Lib Dem council who are nothing more than managerialists.

Bristol's council needs to govern the whole city. Vast area of the North and East are in neighbouring counties. Incorporating these into Bristol proper would a)Increase tax revenue and b)Alter the political landscape and break the perpetual stalemate at the Council House. And after that, a metropolitan transport authority on the TfL model please!

Where's vibrant at night in London except a limited amount in the east? As someone who's lived for years in both cities for years Bristol is far more buzzing in the evening than 95% of London. Most central London pubs shut at 11pm even on weekends. In SE London as well almost all pubs shut at 11pm, and there's barely anywhere for live music. If you find somewhere it charges a fortune as it's so rare and is often dire. Couple of examples - I recently went Earl's Court. All places closed at 11pm on a Thursday. I went to a gig in Camden last month on a Thursday. Wanted a drink after but all pubs we saw shut at 11. For a major world city most areas are dead with crap choice.

In Bristol I can find live music almost everyday of the week, and late opening pubs all within walking distance of places that cost reasonable amounts to live in. Also the cinema's in Bristol have last showings 10/11pm. Local ones in London all stopped showing after 8/9pm. I'm sure there are some in London that are open late but they would take an age to get home from for me, and I'd need to be a millionaire to live anywhere close. Give me stumbling home from a great Bristol pub than a shitty slow nightbus anyday.

Bristol's council needs to govern the whole city. Vast area of the North and East are in neighbouring counties. Incorporating these into Bristol proper would a)Increase tax revenue and b)Alter the political landscape and break the perpetual stalemate at the Council House. And after that, a metropolitan transport authority on the TfL model please!

Absolutely. That large parts of Bristol are ruled by effectively rural councils with very vociferous rural electorates makes a mockery of the idea that Bristol can progress as a city. They also enjoy the amenities of the city but pay local taxes towards a relatively cheap-to-run jurisdiction.

Geoff, do you work for the council?

I understood that Bristol Rovers and Bristol City have had applications turned down on their current grounds for change of use, forcing both teams to revisting time and time again very expensive planning applications and professional consultants. This revenue from their current assets is crucial in both cases for the new stadium plans or I'm I mistaken?

No Rupert, the council don't have the dubious pleasure of employing me. It's just that as a Rovers fan, (someone has to be) and with an interest in the built environment, I've always followed the progress of both clubs efforts to build or redevelop new stadia. It seems to have developed into an urban myth with both sets of fans that somehow the council are obstructing them. In reality the council has bent over backwards to be helpful.

It would have been very easy on planning grounds to turn down City (green belt) and Rovers (overdevelopment in a tightly built up area). The planners recommended the cricket club's plans but the councillors decided they were wrong. Perhaps a little tweaking or an appeal will get it through. I certainly hope so.

Whad'ya know:


Bristol City Council working on plan to make Bristol top class

PLANS detailing how the council proposes to make Bristol "one of the most attractive places to live and work in the world" are due to be made public next month.

The council is releasing a blueprint setting out its vision for the area until 2026, which will affect any new development in the city centre and Harbourside.

(...)

The documents setting out the council's ideas are called the "Central Area Action Plan" and the "City Centre Public Realm and Movement Strategy", and are due for consultation from February 24.

(more) (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Bristol-City-Council-working-plan-make-Bristol/story-15077087-detail/story.html)

I was looking at property in Bristol today on rightmove and couldn't believe how expensive it is compared to the other great provincial cities. What's the reason? Is there a housing shortage in Bristol or just plenty of well paid jobs compared to other regional capitals?

Probably both. And a few other things...

[QUOTE=SF-02;88061165]Where's vibrant at night in London except a limited amount in the east? As someone who's lived for years in both cities for years Bristol is far more buzzing in the evening than 95% of London. Most central London pubs shut at 11pm even on weekends. In SE London as well almost all pubs shut at 11pm.

If you try Bermondsey/Vauxhall/Clapham in south or Shoreditch/Camden or Upper Street you would find loads of late opening venues, indeed some are 23 hours if that is what you are after. However given Londons demographics it is likely that the 'scene' you are into in Bristol is not so prominent in London, perhaps the issue is cultural.

I have never criticized the nightlife in Bristol nor said the place was boring, I just said that there was wasn't much to see/do. I suppose I should have tailored my response to someone from France who is looking for excitement and Le Bingedrinking in that sense I am sure he would love Bristol :)

I was looking at property in Bristol today on rightmove and couldn't believe how expensive it is compared to the other great provincial cities. What's the reason? Is there a housing shortage in Bristol or just plenty of well paid jobs compared to other regional capitals?

All of the above... It always has been a expensive place to live. Taxes are high as well! Bristol is a very rich city and has a very high value CBD so jobs are well paid etc etc. They are still building offices and housing but it never seems enough!

Unfortunately the council are still a little backwards and we need to pull a couple of big projects out of of the bag to keep people (including me) happy i.e Transport Authority, Sports Stadia, Arena amongst others.

I just said that there was wasn't much to see/do.

Given you loads of facts and statistics etc to all your arguments and still you can't concede. I can't be bothered to argue with someone who doesn't accept simple, straight up facts!
:bash:

Like Bristol, Don't like it. No bother. Just be happy! ;)

P.S You never mentioned where you were from?

Whad'ya know:

:banana: I hope we have some forward thinking ideas here.

:banana: I hope we have some forward thinking ideas here.

Fat Chance!!! :ohno:

:banana: I hope we have some forward thinking ideas here.

Fat Chance!!! :ohno:

With so many things (arena, football grounds, cricket, Temple Meads) stuck in limbo, it seems odd to have the planners distracted from their already bulging in-tray like this. I suppose it needs doing though.

Progress will come in spite of Bristol City Council, not because of it. Having said that, I think College Green would look great grassed over.

If a mayor is elected and he's doing a shit job (like the council) is there any way of getting rid of him?

I think it should be like any other job in the private or public sector. If your not doing it right you should be held accountable and ultimately fired! Obviously this should be a majority decision as we should be happy with our Major!

The only problem I find that as far as I know if the Major wants to do something, like reject the GCCC for example then there's no come back right? He has the ultimate power. The power needs to be placed with the majority of the city if that's at all possible.

If a mayor is elected and he's doing a shit job (like the council) is there any way of getting rid of him?

I think it should be like any other job in the private or public sector. If your not doing it right you should be held accountable and ultimately fired! Obviously this should be a majority decision as we should be happy with our Major!

The only problem I find that as far as I know if the Major wants to do something, like reject the GCCC for example then there's no come back right? He has the ultimate power. The power needs to be placed with the majority of the city if that's at all possible.

I'm pretty sure that elected mayors do not have control over planning applications. They are decided by committee still, with no party whips allowed. This is for the very good reason that it makes bribery virtually impossible, as too many people are involved. Even the most honest of people could find themselves put in an invidious position when potentially enormous sums of money are involved.

Sorry just to change the subject.

Does anyone know the site opposite the new Colston Hall on Pipe Lane?

Guess what is to be built there?? Yep you guessed it more student apartments. But on the plus side they look good and are in keeping with the historic nature of some of the buildings in that area. Does anyone have any images. I have one...

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3130/pipelanetopleft.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/pipelanetopleft.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Given you loads of facts and statistics etc to all your arguments and still you can't concede. I can't be bothered to argue with someone who doesn't accept simple, straight up facts!
:bash:

Like Bristol, Don't like it. No bother. Just be happy! ;)

P.S You never mentioned where you were from?

Gee31 - I'm from Southmead - I just don't agree with you that Bristol is as great as you do. I do love it because it is where I come from, but as someone who works in urban policy and travels to other European and UK cities I think there is great potential for improvement but very little ambition. Someone expressed these sentiments much better than me in the council consultation suggesting that the city is stymied by middle class NIMBYS.

Just a quickie to say that demolition work is kicking off on a small collection of ragged shops on the Gloucester Road in Bishopston on what I think is the phase 2 aspect of Egerton Court, which is just next to the old Oddbins shop, up the hill from Texaco and Robin Hood's Retreat.

I remember checking out the plans a few months ago and I think it's going to be largely the same style and size as Egerton Court. As much as I don't like the thought of modern intrusions on Gloucester Road, this particularly patch was grim as hell.

Sorry just to change the subject.

Does anyone know the site opposite the new Colston Hall on Pipe Lane?

Guess what is to be built there?? Yep you guessed it more student apartments. But on the plus side they look good and are in keeping with the historic nature of some of the buildings in that area. Does anyone have any images. I have one...

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3130/pipelanetopleft.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/pipelanetopleft.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I don't mind that at all..

Better that they have gone with a traditional build instead of something totally modern. Hopefully they will have a decent contractor who will build and fish it well.

Looks like the Wapping Wharf development might actually be back on after being granted some money from some "Get Britain Building" fund, with ground works to start in May and the main building work to start towards the end of the year (assuming the detailed planning application goes through).


[The scheme] includes a pedestrian walkway, which will be lined with shops, linking Cumberland Road and the M shed, and a new public square which will link up with the city's planned bus rapid transit network.

(full story) (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/WHOPPING-DEAL-SITE/story-15106452-detail/story.html)


11/01842/R and 04/04126/P if anyone wants to check out the plans.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3130/pipelanetopleft.gif

Wow. That actually looks quite good - totally in keeping with Frogmore Street. Wouldn't want to live there mind, what with the spectre of an ice-rink redevelopment possible.

'Official' news on the new apartments in Temple Quay being built. Nice to actually see the residential part of Temple Quay finally completely. Now just to finish off the commercial part of the site.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Bristol-housing-development-ND10-Zone-enters/story-15119319-detail/story.html




Bristol housing development ND10@The Zone enters final stage after four-year stagnation

WORK has begun on the final phase of a housing development in Temple Quay.

ND10@The Zone is the last block of Barratt Homes' flagship development in the city centre, completing a plan first outlined ten years ago by housebuilder Barratt Homes.

The wave garden looks like a real possibility now.

For anyone who wants to see the plans or more info ect their website is:

www.wavegarden.me.uk.

Hopefully the land they want, which is a derelict piece of grass won't get turned into a town green!!! :lol:

Should be open they say by Summer 2013 (18 months away)

While I stand by the centre being dead most nights; it seems like gloucester road/stokes croft has become the real place to be these days where as over 5 years ago it was often avoided because of the drugs and crime (I've been mugged there as have many friends of mine in the past) so I suppose that's one positive. The place is quite buzzing on weekends, I must say and of course The Croft is one of the best music venues in my opinion.

Good news from S Glos, where the proposed rail maintenance depot has been approved:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-16834629

[QUOTE=SF-02;88061165]Where's vibrant at night in London except a limited amount in the east? As someone who's lived for years in both cities for years Bristol is far more buzzing in the evening than 95% of London. Most central London pubs shut at 11pm even on weekends. In SE London as well almost all pubs shut at 11pm.

If you try Bermondsey/Vauxhall/Clapham in south or Shoreditch/Camden or Upper Street you would find loads of late opening venues, indeed some are 23 hours if that is what you are after. However given Londons demographics it is likely that the 'scene' you are into in Bristol is not so prominent in London, perhaps the issue is cultural.

I have never criticized the nightlife in Bristol nor said the place was boring, I just said that there was wasn't much to see/do. I suppose I should have tailored my response to someone from France who is looking for excitement and Le Bingedrinking in that sense I am sure he would love Bristol :)

They certainly would!

I've been working by London Bridge for a couple of years and there weren't much around open late or any good. Nearly 4 quid a pint too for a poor range in most pubs. There's some decent pubs (Bridge Inn) but none that stay open.

I went to Clapham last summer and at night it was only mainstream crap that was open late, and again very pricey. Maybe I need to investigate further. Never been Vauxhall. To get home to SE London from there would take an age. I was counting Shoredith as inner east which is the only area of London that I have found with a nightlife that's any good.

A little story - I was in Vodka Revs (yeah I know!) on A Fri in soho, and they shut at 11pm! The bouncers were shoving people out at 10 past. Where else in the whole of the UK would that happen on a Friday? (the stupidly early closing not the pushing) That kind of place is open til 1-3am in just about every other city.

Dunno about 'scenes' being different. Bristol has something for everyone. The Old Duke has music everyday, as does Louisiana and more for something thats normally a bit mellow. There's loads of drum n bass and dubstep all through the week as well. Hip hop and commercial dance is all catered for. Loadsa choice!

And I think there's enough to see and do to last a week easily. Looking through venue you would find numerous things :)

Gee31 - I'm from Southmead - I just don't agree with you that Bristol is as great as you do. I do love it because it is where I come from, but as someone who works in urban policy and travels to other European and UK cities I think there is great potential for improvement but very little ambition. Someone expressed these sentiments much better than me in the council consultation suggesting that the city is stymied by middle class NIMBYS.

In terms of ambition and innovation I think East London may have spoiled you a bit :) When I go to certain parts there is an energy and positive approach that I like. It's by no means the norm for much of London however. The vast majority of SE and S London is so lacking in ambition and appreciation of good urban design it's painful. Probably worse than most of the the UK and Europe. Bristol is a utopia in comparison.

I'm in Montpellier right now. Fantastic public areas in the centre and the old town. The tram is expanding too. It's smaller than Bristol and is yet another example of how Bristol's transport is dire. Having said that Bristol does get a lot right with it's streets and buildings. Much of London has been worse over the past 2 decades.

I'm in Montpellier right now. Fantastic public areas in the centre and the old town. The tram is expanding too. It's smaller than Bristol and is yet another example of how Bristol's transport is dire. Having said that Bristol does get a lot right with it's streets and buildings. Much of London has been worse over the past 2 decades.

I have fond memories of Montpellier, from before I knew there was a Montpelier. You are right about transport. To my mind, that is the key to the true success of a city, being able to get around quickly, cheaply, and easily without a car. Bristol needs to change its current policy of too little too late.

Things to look forwards to this year?

More phases of Finzel's Reach.
The final residential part of Crest Nicholsons habourside starting.
The groundworks at Wapping Wharf beginning and detailed p.p. applied for.
Completion of the Barratt's development at Temple Quay.
Opening of the 50m pool and South Bristol Hospital at Hengrove.
Conversion of the General Hospital starts.
The new Central Area Action plan made public.
One maybe both both football clubs can get on with their new stadia.
We get a sensible compromise over the GCCC ground.
The redesign proposed for the Centre to allow for BRT is a great improvement on the existing (fingers crossed).

Any other suggestions/hopes?

Things to look forwards to this year?

More phases of Finzel's Reach.
The final residential part of Crest Nicholsons habourside starting.
The groundworks at Wapping Wharf beginning and detailed p.p. applied for.
Completion of the Barratt's development at Temple Quay.
Opening of the 50m pool and South Bristol Hospital at Hengrove.
Conversion of the General Hospital starts.
The new Central Area Action plan made public.
One maybe both both football clubs can get on with their new stadia.
We get a sensible compromise over the GCCC ground.
The redesign proposed for the Centre to allow for BRT is a great improvement on the existing (fingers crossed).

Any other suggestions/hopes?

The demolition and reconstruction of Bristol City Council?

Is that a ferris wheel/ observation wheel going up in the middle of Broadmead at the mo?

Is that a ferris wheel/ observation wheel going up in the middle of Broadmead at the mo?

Yes, they've got the support trusses (if that's the right term) up already.

Things to look forwards to this year?

More phases of Finzel's Reach.
The final residential part of Crest Nicholsons habourside starting.
The groundworks at Wapping Wharf beginning and detailed p.p. applied for.
Completion of the Barratt's development at Temple Quay.
Opening of the 50m pool and South Bristol Hospital at Hengrove.
Conversion of the General Hospital starts.
The new Central Area Action plan made public.
One maybe both both football clubs can get on with their new stadia.
We get a sensible compromise over the GCCC ground.
The redesign proposed for the Centre to allow for BRT is a great improvement on the existing (fingers crossed).

Any other suggestions/hopes?

Looking at the Wavegarden website - it looks pretty well planned to me and they're hoping to start building work this year too. I'm hopefully optomistic about it - although I know the locals have already starting campaigning against it.

Things to look forwards to this year?
(snip list)
Any other suggestions/hopes?

Bristol Airport Expansion should slowly get going. I think they've started on adding additional stands on the western apron and put the other bits out for tender, though I don't know when they're planning to start with the more substantial bits like the multi-storey car park or terminal building extensions. Though the hotel at the airport might get started this year as well.

When is construction likely to start on the various BRT schemes and the south bristol link road? I suspect for the BRT schemes it might not be before 2013, but maybe the link road this year already? (Hard to tell, I think some of these schemes moved forward are a bit, so not sure if the old timetables apply).

Incidentally, it's been long delayed, but it looks like people might finally be moving into the Lakeshore development in Hartcliffe

http://www.lakeshorebristol.blogspot.com/

That's a blog from someone who was a (now very unhappy) early purchaser of an apartment at Lakeshore but he's reporting that estate agents are saying apartments for rent are now available with a move in date of 1st Feb.

Unfortunately, I no longer live across the road from there (moved to Scotland) so I can't check myself.

When is construction likely to start on the various BRT schemes and the south bristol link road? I suspect for the BRT schemes it might not be before 2013, but maybe the link road this year already? (Hard to tell, I think some of these schemes moved forward are a bit, so not sure if the old timetables apply).

I can't imagine they'll start the southern link road this year - they only recently got the green light and have to get through all the land-purchase stuff yet!
The Harry Stoke link road, on the other hand, may start this year.

Things to look forwards to this year?

Any other suggestions/hopes?

Network Rail announce the imminent reopening of the Portishead line.
As they save a few quid, buying new track at Homebase's "3 for the price of 2" sale, they will also reopen this line, as far as a new Bristol Harbourside station:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/Boyamijealous/IMG_0974.jpg

Speaking of which :

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Henbury-Portishead-rail-lines-open-5-years/story-15038048-detail/story.html

Speaking of which :

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Henbury-Portishead-rail-lines-open-5-years/story-15038048-detail/story.html

Industry insider, huh? I got my suspicions. Man up, Dave! Don't lurk behind anonymity! Stand up and be counted, like me, BoyamIjealous!

Speaking as a leading industry outsider, I think the only reason Portishead hasn't reopened is the complete and utter lack of joined-up thinking between Bristol and North Somerset councils, with the major failing being BCC. It's understandable, as it will help solve traffic problems in another area, not ours, but it's not a good thing.

The railway, when it was rebuilt in 2001 (took less than a year), could and should have been done to passenger standard. We are grateful that so many lorry loads of coal, vehicles, and timber have been kept off the roads, but come on! Now it will have to be rebuilt again, and added to the list of cheap options that have turned out expensive.

I can't imagine they'll start the southern link road this year - they only recently got the green light and have to get through all the land-purchase stuff yet!
The Harry Stoke link road, on the other hand, may start this year.

Start times for the BRT (in theory!) are,

Ashton Vale May 2013

North Fringe Dec 2013

South Bristol link road May 2014

Completion dates are roughly 2 years after the start date, except for the North Fringe route which is 3 years.

Industry insider, huh? I got my suspicions. Man up, Dave! Don't lurk behind anonymity! Stand up and be counted, like me, BoyamIjealous!

Speaking as a leading industry outsider, I think the only reason Portishead hasn't reopened is the complete and utter lack of joined-up thinking between Bristol and North Somerset councils, with the major failing being BCC. It's understandable, as it will help solve traffic problems in another area, not ours, but it's not a good thing.

The railway, when it was rebuilt in 2002, could and should have been done to passenger standard. We are grateful that so many lorry loads of coal, vehicles, and timber have been kept off the roads, but come on! Now it will have to be rebuilt again, and added to the list of cheap options that have turned out expensive.

The lack of an integrated transport authority is probably the main reason for no passenger line to Portishead. As things stand it's North Somerset's responsibility and they are probably the biggest road block to an ITA.

If the train companies have to pay for it as part of a new franchise, then we won't have to worry about inter authority squabbling.

The lack of an integrated transport authority is probably the main reason for no passenger line to Portishead. As things stand it's North Somerset's responsibility and they are probably the biggest road block to an ITA.

If the train companies have to pay for it as part of a new franchise, then we won't have to worry about inter authority squabbling.

Harsh, and yet possibly fair, Geoff. That said, North Som did apply for the cash, then expressed disappointment when they didn't get it. Problem is, do they want to spend their council tax on helping their citizens to get to work in Bristol, and do BCC want to spend their cash on getting them home again by means that don't involve bus lanes or cycling? Don't think so, which shows how right you are about the need for an ITA.

I can't see how the TOCs can be made to pay directly for the work to reopen the Portishead line, although they will give NR large amounts of (our) cash as track access charges when it reopens. But if the franchise doesn't include the line, does that mean that nothing will happen for years, until the next tendering frenzy? And if it is included, does that oblige NR to pick up shovels and spanners, and crack on? Inertia is a terrible thing.

The lack of an integrated transport authority is probably the main reason for no passenger line to Portishead. As things stand it's North Somerset's responsibility and they are probably the biggest road block to an ITA.

If the train companies have to pay for it as part of a new franchise, then we won't have to worry about inter authority squabbling.

I thought Travel+ were supposed to be the equivalent of an ITA?

Things to look forwards to this year?

More phases of Finzel's Reach.
The final residential part of Crest Nicholsons habourside starting.
The groundworks at Wapping Wharf beginning and detailed p.p. applied for.
Completion of the Barratt's development at Temple Quay.
Opening of the 50m pool and South Bristol Hospital at Hengrove.
Conversion of the General Hospital starts.
The new Central Area Action plan made public.
One maybe both both football clubs can get on with their new stadia.
We get a sensible compromise over the GCCC ground.
The redesign proposed for the Centre to allow for BRT is a great improvement on the existing (fingers crossed).

Any other suggestions/hopes?

I'm looking forward to the ex magistrates site being cleared and knocked down and then rebuilt. I think it will be a good project and should/might kick start other developments in nelson street. I think it will improve that area quite a lot and will have a major impact on the cityscape. We'll wait and see!

Some more for the "hopes" category:

- Redcliffe Village gets re-surrected (block surrounded by Redcliffe Street, Three Queens Lane, St. Thomas Street, Thomas Lane and currently occupied by empty warehouses rented to office workers for parking and a Kwik-fit)

- more detailed plans for Temple Way / Temple Circus Gyratory / Temple Meads BRT stop emerge (maybe even plot 6)

Some more for the "hopes" category:

- Redcliffe Village gets re-surrected (block surrounded by Redcliffe Street, Three Queens Lane, St. Thomas Street, Thomas Lane and currently occupied by empty warehouses rented to office workers for parking and a Kwik-fit)



I dunno maybe it's for the best that one stays dead, the plans for Redcliffe Village sucked ass, pretty dreary looking from the renders. The area could do better.

I dunno maybe it's for the best that one stays dead, the plans for Redcliffe Village sucked ass, pretty dreary looking from the renders. The area could do better.

You might be right. I remember that I liked some bits, but was absolutely horrified by others (green frontages on the St. Thomas Street side?).

added:

Which reminds me: I wonder whatever happened to that pedestrian bridge from Toto's / Redcliffe St / Thomas Ln to King's Street ? There was a pot of S106 money somewhere to build it, but it was to be returned to the developer if the council didn't make use of it by end-2011 or so. Last I heard was some council person saying they were very close to agreeing something (in October or so?). Guess nothing happened and the money is gone? Does anyone know?

I thought Travel+ were supposed to be the equivalent of an ITA?

I think it's an informal equivalent. An ITA has statutory powers and will be responsible for the Local Tranport Plan and can get money from the district councils to implement it.

I think our present arrangement still has the disadvantage that it only takes one of the four authorities to have a strop and the wheels fall off.

Some more for the "hopes" category:

- Redcliffe Village gets re-surrected (block surrounded by Redcliffe Street, Three Queens Lane, St. Thomas Street, Thomas Lane and currently occupied by empty warehouses rented to office workers for parking and a Kwik-fit)

Noooooo...what would happen to Dynasty?! :uh:

Noooooo...what would happen to Dynasty?! :uh:

The Dynasty building wasn't part of the scheme if I remember correctly.

A little of bit of interesting, although strictly speaking not relating to any specific development, news.


Bristol City FC's Steve Lansdown named as rugby club owner
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-16922218

Bristol City Football Club owner Steve Lansdown has been named as the majority shareholder of Bristol Rugby Club.

Rugby club chairman Chris Booy said he was "delighted" to confirm Mr Lansdown had taken a majority stake in the club.

"I love sport generally and I want to see sport in Bristol be successful across the board," said Mr Lansdown.

A statement from Bristol City FC said that Mr Lansdown's involvement with the rugby club would not affect how the football club was run or financed.

Mr Lansdown added: "When the rugby club was in financial difficulty a few years ago I came in and helped.

"I'm looking at a long-term strategy for both clubs to make them sustainable, to make them a lasting legacy for future generations to come."

Mr Booy said the club had already "seen the benefit" of help from Mr Lansdown but added nothing would change in the short-term.

"Going forward, it will very much be business as usual. Steve has in fact helped in supporting the club financially for a number of years now."

Future options

The rugby club plays at the Memorial Stadium, home to Bristol Rovers FC.

Mr Booy said the club would continue to play at its "spiritual home" for at least the next season but would look at future options.

Both Bristol City and Bristol Rovers are planning moves to new grounds at Ashton Vale and the University of the West of England (UWE) respectively.

"Both the UWE site and Ashton Vale are subject to planning permission so we need to see how that goes over the next year before making long-term plans," said Mr Booy.

Mike West, from the Bristol Rugby supporters trust, said he was "delighted" by Mr Lansdown's involvement.

"It means stability but also the possibility of going forward and probably getting those players that before were slightly out of our range," he said.

A statement from Bristol City Football Club said: "Steve has backed Bristol City personally, professionally and financially for over 15 years, and he will continue to support the club's efforts to achieve success on and off the pitch."

Mr Lansdown co-founded the financial services company Hargreaves Lansdown in the 1980s.


Could Bristol Rugby be moving to Ashton Gate/Vale at some point in the future?

Bit of an update on Finzel's Reach, as I work just behind on Victoria St...

I noticed today that it looks as though work as started on the footbridge elements, linking Castle Park to Finzels. I notice from renders of the project (below) that the (cool, in my opinion) footbridge enters FR through a "hole" in an existing wall (I assume part of the old brewery?). The wall in question has recently had a load of scaffolding and plastic sheeting put up in front of it with work commencing inside.

http://www.finzelsreach.com/images/image1.png

Would seem odd to start work on the hole if the bridge wasn't about to follow - but who knows!

Noticed that BS1, would be great to see the bridge go in by the summer. Also think the pavement around the new office building might be opening up fairly soon; looked close to complete when i walked past there last week. Fairly certain some of the flats are now occupied as well - there was a clothes line on one of the balconies.

View from the bristol eye. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3m_w1lzFXs

Thanks for posting. The view isn't bad, would've preferred the other (southern) angle.
Still think it would've been much better from another location such a college green or the downs.

This won't please some of our members, keen to keep the historic airfield at Filton:

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/65963-filton-airfield-site-snapped-multimillion-pound-deal

This won't please some of our members, keen to keep the historic airfield at Filton:

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/south-west/65963-filton-airfield-site-snapped-multimillion-pound-deal

That's actually part of the Charlton Hayes (Northfield) development. I think Bovis are struggling to shift the homes by themselves, hence selling off some of the plots.
Apprarently, Charlton Hayes is becoming a bit of a no-go area before it's even got off the ground - a local magistrate mentioned that he's personally heard dozens of cases involving people living on the bit of estate that's already occupied. Doesn't bode well. :ohno:

Tickets to ride the wheel in town cost £6 for an adult. You can get a far better view for free at the top of Cabot tower... or any number of hills in the city. Rip off perhaps?

Apprarently, Charlton Hayes is becoming a bit of a no-go area before it's even got off the ground - a local magistrate mentioned that he's personally heard dozens of cases involving people living on the bit of estate that's already occupied. Doesn't bode well. :ohno:

Unconscious wit there, Bertyboy? Presumably, though, the 11 acres that have been sold don't interfere with what is, for the next 10 months, an active airfield.

That said, I think it a great shame that BAe are closing the airfield. It's a fabulous asset and a piece of real history, and should have been used for aviation and its ancillary services. It would make a great maintenance base, cargo facility, with lots of industrial bits around, all enjoying a railway line on site. I learned to fly at Filton, and it's a huge green space - you don't realise that from the ground, but you can see it from way up the Wye valley.

If nothing else, it makes for a good buffer zone for Patchway. I fear the worst.

I learned to fly at Filton, and it's a huge green space - you don't realise that from the ground, but you can see it from way up the Wye valley.

If nothing else, it makes for a good buffer zone for Patchway. I fear the worst.

As did we all, it seems. Much cheaper & convenient than BIA!
In fact, I actually watched concorde 216 make it's final landing from up on the top of the wye valley. It was a great view, and the roads were crowded with plane spotters and photographers.

As did we all, it seems. Much cheaper & convenient than BIA!
In fact, I actually watched concorde 216 make it's final landing from up on the top of the wye valley. It was a great view, and the roads were crowded with plane spotters and photographers.

And it's been sat outside weathering for 8 years. Absolute tragedy.
I'm currently in the process (along with Save Concorde Group) of trying to get a business to sponsor a museum on the north of the airfield - with either the theme of "Bristol Company" and its contemporaries or British civil airliners. Any leads welcome.

Good luck with that bb. What sort of ball park are we talking to make it viable?
And what happened to the rumours of the plane being taken to london as an attraction beside the thames?

Good luck with that bb. What sort of ball park are we talking to make it viable?
And what happened to the rumours of the plane being taken to london as an attraction beside the thames?

The problem is that it is all in the hands of Airbus and BA as to what happens. They are being very coy with SCG. They may hand over custodianship to a group like SCG or Concorde Trust or they may let it go to London - we just don't know at the moment.
Certainly, the plans for a basic museum for AF and the Bristol Aero Collection will require capital of £1m+, and then operating capital (for insurance, heating etc.), but personally, I'd hope for something more extensive (I've only just got involved, so I don't want to tread on too many toes).

As did we all, it seems. Much cheaper & convenient than BIA!
In fact, I actually watched concorde 216 make it's final landing from up on the top of the wye valley. It was a great view, and the roads were crowded with plane spotters and photographers.

You lucky sod! I had to be content with a very wet golf course, the same place that my beloved wife stood to watch the first British flight of the prototype.

The problem is that it is all in the hands of Airbus and BA as to what happens. They are being very coy with SCG. They may hand over custodianship to a group like SCG or Concorde Trust or they may let it go to London - we just don't know at the moment.
Certainly, the plans for a basic museum for AF and the Bristol Aero Collection will require capital of £1m+, and then operating capital (for insurance, heating etc.), but personally, I'd hope for something more extensive (I've only just got involved, so I don't want to tread on too many toes).

And there's the rub, my dear Bertyboy! All that is certain is that if 216 does leave, it won't be the same way it arrived. I can think of no other time in civil engineering that a thing has passed into history without being superseded by something better. OK, I know "better" has other ways of interpretation than pure speed, but I stand my ground.

You lucky sod! I had to be content with a very wet golf course, the same place that my beloved wife stood to watch the first British flight of the prototype.

Yes, lucky is definitely the word. It was not intentional, as I was working that day and was rushing back from herefordshire and thought I'd missed it when I realized people lining the road with huge telescopic lenses. I pulled over just in time to see the majestic white bird circling bristol then gracefully came down to meet the ground. Was amazed quite frankly that I could see it so from such a distance. Still would've been cool with a set of binos though!
Which golf course were you at?

Which golf course were you at?

Other than the one by the runway, surely the next nearest course is the one on Trench Lane? Don't think that would afford great views! ;-)

Speaking of which, if anyone is interested, we have organised (along with the Unite union) a march in protest at the proposed closure of Filton, this Saturday starting at Golf Course Road:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/March-chance-campaign-Filton-Airfield-closure/story-15222764-detail/story.html

Family affair. Everyone welcome!

Hey, we got a leaflet through our door yesterday regarding the planned redevelopment of the Memorial Stadium by Sainsbury's. There's a sketch of the proposed store on the front and on the back are details of the public consultation being held at the stadium next week, if anybody here's able to make it (I won't sadly).

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Erebus555/Sketchmemstadium.png

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Erebus555/Deets.png

No PFS? Unusual for a Sainsburys of that size. I wonder if it is because it is too near to residential areas?

Which golf course were you at?

To the left as you approach runway 27, entrance from Charlton Lane / Pen Park Road. Better viewing when 09 is in use is the other side of the airfield, from behind the Vue and KFC. Watched the A380's first landing there, correctly predicting where the wheels would first touch the ground.
http://ukga.com/images/content/image8867.jpg

Drove past Bridewell Island today and noticed loads of scaffolding, hoardings and boards saying Midas Construction. Whats happening? Don't Urban Splash own that site?

Drove past Bridewell Island today and noticed loads of scaffolding, hoardings and boards saying Midas Construction. Whats happening? Don't Urban Splash own that site?

I think it's a new youth centre called myplace, which is being funded with £5m from central government. Don't know what's happening with Urban Splash.

NSC acting like a bunch of prats...AGAIN! :ohno:

http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/council_objects_to_plans_to_expand_shopping_at_cribbs_causeway_1_1211766

NSC acting like a bunch of prats...AGAIN! :ohno:

http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/council_objects_to_plans_to_expand_shopping_at_cribbs_causeway_1_1211766

Doesn't mean it will be rejected though so hopefully SGC wil tell NSC to go take a running jump!!!

Is the expansion of The Mall something we really want to see??

Is the expansion of The Mall something we really want to see??

That's a good question. Whilst it is good for employment, obviously, it does put employment as well at risk. Current government planning policy really does lean in favour of protecting existing town centres from these sorts of developments. I think this development could easily become a litmus for other planned expansions of out-of-town retail complexes...

I suspect it's not a coincidence that Cribbs Causeway is positioning itself as a/the (future) "centre" then (for all those residential developments nearby that are in the pipeline), rather than an out-of-town shopping complex ;)

I'm sure SGC will find ways to approve it, they couldn't care less about Bristol city centre or Weston.

The Evening Post reports today on the George / Grosvenor island outside Temple Meads station:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Time-sort-Bristol-s-eyesore-Island/story-15264630-detail/story.html

It's a big area in a prime spot, but completely surrounded by heavy traffic. Ideas?

The Evening Post reports today on the George / Grosvenor island outside Temple Meads station:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Time-sort-Bristol-s-eyesore-Island/story-15264630-detail/story.html

It's a big area in a prime spot, but completely surrounded by heavy traffic. Ideas?

Probably going to have to be offices because of the location. They will use the threat of a CPO to get the site in single ownership so that they can press on with the approved scheme or a similar one.

Probably going to have to be offices because of the location. They will use the threat of a CPO to get the site in single ownership so that they can press on with the approved scheme or a similar one.

I thought offices rather than residential, too. I see your reasoning behind this CPO. It certainly would be uncharacteristic of Bristol City Council to actually make a decision on their own.

I used to have to go to the Grosvenor with my job when it was still a hotel, but with the top two floors being exclusively for homeless families. I had to deal with quite a few of them over the years. It was weird seeing cars passing on the flyover, and alarming when lorries did, because they would often scrape the barrier. One night, I was stopped on the way in by two rather large gentlemen in suits, who checked me out, then told me to go straight to the lift, only press the button for the floor I was going to, and that I would be escorted to the room by a colleague of theirs. One of them told his cufflinks that I was on my way. Turned out Norman Tebbit was having dinner there. I have no idea why - this was in the late 80s IIRC. The place was not in the best condition, to be charitable.

I see your reasoning behind this CPO. It certainly would be uncharacteristic of Bristol City Council to actually make a decision on their own.

What do you mean by that BoyamIjealous? What kind of decision should they have made on their own in your opinion?

Island Site:

Is it just me who whats to see the Grosvenor Hotel and the other building (not the white building bit that's attached to the side though) preserved and worked into plans with a modern twist. I think those 2 buildings are actually not bad looking and if we keep ripping down nice looking buildings we are going to end up with standard buildings everywhere which will need ripping down and building again every 15 years.

On the flip side I do want them to get on with it!!!

Is the expansion of The Mall something we really want to see??

In a word... YES :banana:

I'm sure SGC will find ways to approve it, they couldn't care less about Bristol city centre or Weston.

Or, indeed, most of South Gloucestershire! :lol:

on Twitter @BristolCouncil reports that the village green legal challenge has been withdrawn meaning the stadium can go ahead!

Judicial review into decision on Ashton Gate stadium, Bristol, is unexpectedly withdrawn

The Evening Post can reveal that the last obstacle to Bristol City building a new 30,000-seater stadium at Ashton Vale has been removed.

The application for judicial review into the city council’s decision not to fully ratify town green status for the whole site has been unexpectedly withdrawn.

With the club already having planning permission for the stadium, and Sainsbury’s in place ready to build a new supermarket on the site of the current Ashton Gate stadium, the club are now free to proceed with the development.

In 2008 the Evening Post exclusively revealed the news that Bristol City were planning to move from their current stadium to Ashton Vale.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Judicial-review-decision-Ashton-Gate-stadium/story-15281661-detail/story.html

:)

Well I've posted the good news in the sports section. Starting to regret it now as I can't get my head around it being true yet. Surely there's something else to hold it back?!

Its all a bit confused...

Ashton Vale town green: Confusion reigns over judicial review

Confusion reigned this afternoon in the long-running battle over Bristol City FC’s new stadium, after a Bristol City Council claim that an application for a judicial review into the Ashton Vale town green decision had been dropped was refuted.

Bristol24-7 has learned that the application for a judicial review, by an unnamed applicant, HAS been dropped and the original decision to split the site would be enforced, with a piece of land known as The Spur included in the town green area.

In a statement released by Bristol City Council this lunchtime, deputy council leader Simon Cook said he “welcomed the news that the sole unnamed local person has discontinued his application to the High Court for a Judicial Review of the Council’s decision over an earlier Town and Village Green application for land in Ashton Vale”.

However, less than an hour after the statement emerged, solicitors acting for the unnamed person who had brought the action said the legal battle would continue.

BBC News reported on Twitter that both Cardiff Admin Court and London High Court say the case is still live and will go to hearing.

It is therefore unclear as to whether Bristol City FC’s long-running bid to build a £90m stadium has been given the green light or not.

http://www.bristol247.com/2012/02/20/ashton-vale-town-green-confusion-reigns-over-judicial-review-72886/

Hmmm.
Doesn't look so good now! This saga never ceases to amaze. I think one day a whole book or film will be made about it..

What do you mean by that BoyamIjealous? What kind of decision should they have made on their own in your opinion?

They could decide whether or not this report is true, for a start.

on Twitter @BristolCouncil reports that the village green legal challenge has been withdrawn meaning the stadium can go ahead!

This whole business of stadium, supermarket, town green was becoming a fiasco, but is beyond absurd now.

There's some clarification of today's debacle here;
http://www.bristol247.com/2012/02/20/ashton-vale-town-green-judicial-review-bid-is-still-on-95034/

Looks as if its gonna continue, the council seems to have jumped the gun.

There's some clarification of today's debacle here;
http://www.bristol247.com/2012/02/20/ashton-vale-town-green-judicial-review-bid-is-still-on-95034/

Looks as if its gonna continue, the council seems to have jumped the gun.

Seems so!!!

Don't think so. More likely the SAVE group have been caught out, and are clutching at straws. I can't see how they could have taken ' appropriate measures to allow that to happen' if the application was by a single person as it cannot be transfered in such circumstances...Or so we are being told.
The elderly man was chosen to front the app as he would be eligible for legal aid. Seems to have backfired!
There are also plenty of conspiracy theories flying around the web speculating that he was a plant by bcfc/bcc, who applied solely with the aim of ditching it once the time limit for a new app expired, leaving the save group stuffed with a dose if their own medicine. Highly unlikely, but funny if true!
Also, all this talk of harassment and intimidation and poor health; doesn't tally with the letter. Why would he stipulate that no one can act as substitute, not can the views if his former solicitors be seem to reflect his own?
I think its game over for the nimbys, personally.

Don't think so. More likely the SAVE group have been caught out, and are clutching at straws. I can't see how they could have taken ' appropriate measures to allow that to happen' if the application was by a single person as it cannot be transfered in such circumstances...Or so we are being told.
The elderly man was chosen to front the app as he would be eligible for legal aid. Seems to have backfired!
There are also plenty of conspiracy theories flying around the web speculating that he was a plant by bcfc/bcc, who applied solely with the aim of ditching it once the time limit for a new app expired, leaving the save group stuffed with a dose if their own medicine. Highly unlikely, but funny if true!
Also, all this talk of harassment and intimidation and poor health; doesn't tally with the letter. Why would he stipulate that no one can act as substitute, not can the views if his former solicitors be seem to reflect his own?
I think its game over for the nimbys, personally.

If what your saying is true, I would love it.

The "Mole" theory would be particularly funny and true business foresight if indeed true!!! :lol:

So how long before we see Mr Landsdown's diggers on site and also does this mean the councils decision to make half a Town Green and half for stadium development stands?

Yeah - the letter from the applicant to the courts seems pretty clear http://www.bristol247.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Letter-to-Admin-Court-Office.pdf :

1. That I do not premit for a replacement as a result of the claim discontinuance
2. That I do not wish for a replacement as a result of the claim discontinuance
3. That the discontinuance signed paperwork served to the courts are an accurate and wholly reliable account of my withdrawal
4. That any claim by my former solicitors are no longer reliable and not an accurate description of my view

Sounds to me either:

1) The guy has had some serious issues with intimidation and has had enough and decided to drop out and making it absolutely clear that he has nothing to do with it anymore.

or

2) After dealing the the 'SAVE' group for 8 months he's realised that they've got their own agenda which means that they they wont compromise under any circumstances and thinks they're wrong.

I hope it's number '2' that's caused this.

And I'm not surprised the lawyers for the SAVE group are saying that it's still ongoing - they've put a lot of time and effort into this - and probably wont get most of their money until the case completes so it's in their interest to keep it going.

Exactly. They'll want to drag it out as long as possible.

Now, presuming we really are at a close with the JR:

To clarify..

The councils compromise deal will stand, with the land split in two (our three, if you count the wetlands).

The build will take around two years. As we know, the club were poised to commence a few weeks back in case the JR was thrown out by the judge, with contractors in place, so assuming not much has changed I would imagine work will start within three months to allow a buffer zone for any unforseen construction problems and for stadium safety certification/pre season friendlies in july before the start of the 2014-15 campaign.

Colin Sexton is due to talk on radio bristol tomorrow morning at 8.05 am so tune in if you can, and we might find out some more.

2) After dealing the the 'SAVE' group for 8 months he's realised that they've got their own agenda which means that they they wont compromise under any circumstances and thinks they're wrong.


The comment about progress and jobs possibly reveals such a sentiment. If that's the case you have to wonder if there hasn't been an element of intimidation - or at least a great deal of pressure - brought to bear upon this man to continue the action.

Either way hope this really is over, guess we'll find out in the morning!

Well we should know by the end of the week, with the high court hopefully dismissing the save group's request to transfer the application to another person.
If that happens, I won't only be mightily relieved, I'll also be laughing my head off at the people who tried so hard to selfishly procrastinate this development. They've tried every trick in the book, and in my opinion have used underhand tactics to the detriment of arguably the whole city. LA parish council, for example, financially aiding something which is none if their business...despite many LA residents themselves being in favour of the stadium. They will have got what they bargained for and more. There should be an inquiry into how much money they wasted.

Anyway, getting ahead of myself now.
If you didnt get to hear Sexton this morning, he didn't let on too much - merely repeated what we already knew. On the construction side he said once they were given a formal green light they would crack on with reviewing the tender and the 106 agreement before starting work as quickly as was sensibly possible.

Yeah - the letter from the applicant to the courts seems pretty clear http://www.bristol247.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Letter-to-Admin-Court-Office.pdf :

Sounds to me either:

1) The guy has had some serious issues with intimidation and has had enough and decided to drop out and making it absolutely clear that he has nothing to do with it anymore.

or

2) After dealing the the 'SAVE' group for 8 months he's realised that they've got their own agenda which means that they they wont compromise under any circumstances and thinks they're wrong.

I hope it's number '2' that's caused this.

And I'm not surprised the lawyers for the SAVE group are saying that it's still ongoing - they've put a lot of time and effort into this - and probably wont get most of their money until the case completes so it's in their interest to keep it going.

"Don't worry sir, we'll sue them for what's rightfully ours - er, I mean yours".

There's a cynical number 3 option that isn't listed. That would be contained in a brown envelope, in recognisance of the plaintiff's costs, and full and final recompense for discontinuation of the claim. If so, there is nothing wrong with this. English law attempts to put things as they were, or to compensate the injured party for the change to the status quo.

Either way, I recall Mr Lansdown's regret at not fencing off the site as soon as he bought it. I hope he acts tonight. Roll, diggers, roll!

What are your thoughts on this Bertyboy?
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Gloucestershire-County-Cricket-Club-city-Filton/story-15292042-detail/story.html

What are your thoughts on this Bertyboy?
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Gloucestershire-County-Cricket-Club-city-Filton/story-15292042-detail/story.html

Bristol City Council are such a bunch of twats for letting this happen. Before we know it all facilities etc will be out side of the city and all because of the lack of foresight by our council.

If it happens, Good Luck to GCCC and this way at least they will be back in Gloucestershire, :). I think its better for the club to have brand new stadium and also may kick start other things mentioned like the Concorde Museum and other shops and office developments around it.

Also people complaining about GCCC over developing the land, parking spaces issues or what ever they were going on about, what do they think the old stadium will become if GCCC do indeed move? A Town Green? :lol:

It's not big enough for a Sainsburys I don't think so I am guessing it's gonna be housing etc. Well that will be better ay, instead of 147 flats there will be a good number more and the traffic chaos and parking will be a 24/7 burden not just on match days etc.

Well Done Residents, Well Done Indeed!!! :nuts:

I think it's hard to question a move leaving the city when it's gloucestershire moving into s. Gloucestershire! Tbh, I don't really see how it would have an adverse effect on the city. Filton is still really bristol as far as I'm concerned, and only a mile or so from horfield. I'm sure it will be absorbed by the city boundary at some point in the future anyway!
I do like the idea of using some of the land there for more dynamic usage than purely housing if the airfield must go. It is an opportunity to create a first class facility to bring top class cricket to the region, rivalling competition from cardiff and elsewhere. Gccc are in a similar position to rovers in that they are restricted at their current homes, and if moving slightly out if the boundary is necessary to progress/compete then I dont think it is a major problem.
Would be sad to see the old pavilion go though. Hopefully any new design will be blessed with a bit of character.

What are your thoughts on this Bertyboy?
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Gloucestershire-County-Cricket-Club-city-Filton/story-15292042-detail/story.html

Well, whilst I'd love GCCC to come to South Gloucs., this smacks of an attempt to garner public support for the closure of Filton Airfield. The interesting thing about this report is that they are proposing to put the stadium on the one area of the proposed development that wasn't for housing and was heavily vaunted as an "advanced aerospace park" to replace anything lost as a result of the airfield going. As there isn't any existing parking in the area, I presume it would have to include that as well. Which makes SGC's whole approach seem completely muddled - either that want new high-quality employment in the area, or they don't. Shifting some jobs from Horfield to Filton doesn't help Bristol overall.

Speaking as a T20 fan, I think a new stadium is essential, but I'd rather watch at the county ground, where's there's plenty of hostelries for a post-match curry/drink, than lose the airfield. I hope I don't come across as a Nimby, because I'm not - I just think that sacrificing FA is such a short-sighted thing to do. The businesses editor of The Times even agreed with me yesterday.

New judicial review granted on Ashton Vale town green

A High Court judge has allowed a second person to pursue a judicial review over the plan to create a town green at Ashton Vale.

A letter from the court in London, seen by Bristol24-7 this morning, confirms the legal battle has not been derailed, after it emerged on Monday that the original applicant had withdrawn.

http://www.bristol247.com/2012/02/23/new-judicial-review-granted-on-ashton-vale-town-green-86934/

:ohno:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17138950


Bristol City Council said: "Clearly this astonishing turn of events is deeply frustrating."
'Strongest terms'

"Our legal representatives were not invited to be present, or even made aware, that the courts were due to make this decision yesterday on a new judicial review by another anonymous person," a statement from the authority added.

"We shall be seeking to reverse this decision in the strongest terms next week when it is reviewed by the courts."

Couldn't even post this morning, as I was so raging. I had only just read the more than positive news concerning the second letter written by the anonymous claimant when this new unexpected twist suddenly presented itself. I still can't believe a judge came to this decision so quickly, given the events of the last few days when it took a judge months to make a decision just to up hold the review. It seems the law is only concerned in wasting the time of one side; BCC/BCFC.

I know being a city fan I am inevitably swayed with emotion and bias, but I can't help but feel that practically the whole world are against us in this quest to build a new stadium. We can now add Mr Justice Thornton to Ross Crail. BCC have been extremely supportive (although they have appeared to be extremely naive and calamitous at times), as have the majority of the general public.

I have digested it now though. Even though there are positives to come from this, I (and probably a good few thousand too) wish we never had this week as it's left me a wreck!!

Couldn't even post this morning, as I was so raging. I had only just read the more than positive news concerning the second letter written by the anonymous claimant when this new unexpected twist suddenly presented itself. I still can't believe a judge came to this decision so quickly, given the events of the last few days when it took a judge months to make a decision just to up hold the review. It seems the law is only concerned in wasting the time of one side; BCC/BCFC.

I know being a city fan I am inevitably swayed with emotion and bias, but I can't help but feel that practically the whole world are against us in this quest to build a new stadium. We can now add Mr Justice Thornton to Ross Crail. BCC have been extremely supportive (although they have appeared to be extremely naive and calamitous at times), as have the majority of the general public.

I have digested it now though. Even though there are positives to come from this, I (and probably a good few thousand too) wish we never had this week as it's left me a wreck!!

NFB, Schmeek, my friend.

This smacks very much of a judge deliberately moving the goalposts to spite BCC.

Almost a tangible sense of toes being trodden on, high court egos asserting themselves amid council claims of 'it's over', 'they can't do this', 'can't do that' etc etc.
I get the feeling these people dont like bring told what they can and cannot do, and I wonder whether it might've been more prudent for BCC to have refrained from releasing an immediate defiant and victorious statement, and for the lawyers who clearly helped draft the 1st anonymous letter to have made it slightly less precise and demanding.

Ok its moan time. But this time I'm gonna leave ashton vale well alone for a change. Gonna moan about my other favorite instead - harbourside!
Now I've just had a peek at the cardiff threads, as one does from time to time, and this time it is with envy.
I don't to get into the old argument over which city is 'better' again, but want to focus on the similar opportunities both cities had at the Harbourside and the Bay, respectively, and the hugely contrasting success they had.
Both sites represented huge amounts of land ripe for development next to calm waters.
The Harbourside has the following:

Bristol aquarium.

@bristol science museum.

Tonnes of sh*tty already dated apartments.

An ugly, value hotel.

A casino.

Bars/restaurants.

A major corporate HQ.


Whilst Cardiff bay boasts:

An international/olympic white water canoe/slalom course.

An olympic sized swimming pool.

A cinema.

Yacht club.

Millennium centre/opera house.

Welsh assembly.

Techni quest science museum.

Bars/restaurants.

Hotels.

Decent/attractive apartments.

Retail/shopping centre.

Soon to have:

3000 seat ice arena and separate public ice rink.

150 metre ski slope.



No contest is really. Fact is, the Bay is a destination, whilst the Harbourside isn't. What a waste.

Changing tracks slightly (see what I did there? :)

http://greaterbristolrail.com/

Changing tracks slightly (see what I did there? :)

http://greaterbristolrail.com/

Saw that too, and wondered if it was actually cause for worry, that a big campaign is required to persuade the powers that be that this should really be included in the Great Western franchise renewal. It sounded like an almost-sure thing before.

Ok its moan time. But this time I'm gonna leave ashton vale well alone for a change. Gonna moan about my other favorite instead - harbourside!
Now I've just had a peek at the cardiff threads, as one does from time to time, and this time it is with envy.
I don't to get into the old argument over which city is 'better' again, but want to focus on the similar opportunities both cities had at the Harbourside and the Bay, respectively, and the hugely contrasting success they had.
Both sites represented huge amounts of land ripe for development next to calm waters.
The Harbourside has the following:

Bristol aquarium.

@bristol science museum.

Tonnes of sh*tty already dated apartments.

An ugly, value hotel.

A casino.

Bars/restaurants.

A major corporate HQ.


Whilst Cardiff bay boasts:

An international/olympic white water canoe/slalom course.

An olympic sized swimming pool.

A cinema.

Yacht club.

Millennium centre/opera house.

Welsh assembly.

Techni quest science museum.

Bars/restaurants.

Hotels.

Decent/attractive apartments.

Retail/shopping centre.

Soon to have:

3000 seat ice arena and separate public ice rink.

150 metre ski slope.



No contest is really. Fact is, the Bay is a destination, whilst the Harbourside isn't. What a waste.

Unfortunately you cannot describe your comparison as a competition. The Cardiff Bay development has received huge quantities of public money, the barrage itself, the millenium centre, the welsh assembly etc are all paid for basically by us. Only the @ Bristol site received lottery money (around £50m) and the rest is privately funded and also had to pay for the large decontamination costs. That has left us with some underwhelming buildings, but this was never anywhere near a level playing field.

This smacks very much of a judge deliberately moving the goalposts to spite BCC.

I wish they would move the goal posts - from Ashton Gate to a shiny new Ashton Vale stadium

Changing tracks slightly (see what I did there? :)

http://greaterbristolrail.com/

I read through that, and I am encouraged. Seems odd that a few letters from the likes of we few could help the case with the DfT, whereas BCC, NSDC, SGDC, and BANES with their expensive consultants could not. But I shall write in support. It's a better idea than the Bus Rabid Transit thing.

Unfortunately you cannot describe your comparison as a competition. The Cardiff Bay development has received huge quantities of public money, the barrage itself, the millenium centre, the welsh assembly etc are all paid for basically by us. Only the @ Bristol site received lottery money (around £50m) and the rest is privately funded and also had to pay for the large decontamination costs. That has left us with some underwhelming buildings, but this was never anywhere near a level playing field.

Yes, I'd agree, the Welsh Assembly will have had their capital city's appearance and well being a pretty high priority - and can throw plenty of money around. Unfortunately, Bristol isn't Cardiff - and therefore, as you point out, will get very little money in comparison. I doubt Bristol is the only English city in a similar boat.

Yes, I'd agree, the Welsh Assembly will have had their capital city's appearance and well being a pretty high priority - and can throw plenty of money around. Unfortunately, Bristol isn't Cardiff - and therefore, as you point out, will get very little money in comparison. I doubt Bristol is the only English city in a similar boat.

I flew over Cardiff once, with a (Welsh) mate in the back seat with my camera. Unfortunately, he was so overwhelmed by the experience of flight in a light aircraft, he forgot to take any pictures. It is very interesting to see, I wish I could share it with you.

...editing

Unfortunately you cannot describe your comparison as a competition. The Cardiff Bay development has received huge quantities of public money, the barrage itself, the millenium centre, the welsh assembly etc are all paid for basically by us. Only the @ Bristol site received lottery money (around £50m) and the rest is privately funded and also had to pay for the large decontamination costs. That has left us with some underwhelming buildings, but this was never anywhere near a level playing field.

Yep. Never a level playing field. But there's undoubtedly competition between the two cities.
Cardiff may have had the barrage, but bristol was way in front in that sense - the floating harbour been around over a hundred years.
My point is that the bristol harbourside plans lacked foresight, imagination and an understanding of what bristol needed. Instead of allowing crest nicholson to fill the place with grotesque apartments and un inspiring bland boxes claiming to be 'leisure' in an ill conceived myriad of 'plots', they should have looked into using this prime one time opportunity in the heart of our city to build a future befitting of its past. Afterall, without the docks bristol would have been a much smaller, different place altogether; if in fact a place at all. We owed it to the docks. Reinventing itself was the phrase bandied about. Yeah, from a bustling thriving successful port to a stale, bland dead waterfront...
I dont see why they couldn't bring in some proper leading class city facilities/amenities/attractions other than the imax and the science museum. There could have been a much needed arena, a pool complex such as the one nightingale proposed for the tropicana. No doubt in my un qualified mind that these things would've been a success unlike the boarded empty shop fronts and ailing bars/restaurants we see today.

I look with envy at cardiff now because they are now filling the bay with exactly these kind of things. Its all about being a destination and things to do.
Cardiff have a huge advantage, but lets not use that as an excuse.
Bristol messed up big time here and missed a trick.

To be fair to the planners, they twice rejected Crest's schemes in order to get a better outcome and Edward Cullinan Architects have a very good reputation, but their crescent flats must be one of their dullest designs. It's difficult to see where Bristol could have got the money from, once the intended piece de resistance in the shape of the "exploding greenhouse" concert hall, had the plug pulled by the Arts Council. Bristol just doesn't have access to funds that flow from being a capital city or being poor enough to get money from Europe.

I don't think the retail units in harbourside will be secure until the walkway to the harbour inlet is completed and that's at least 18 months away. A bridge to the SS Great Britain would be a great way of connecting both sides of the harbour and stimulating pedestrian flows, but it would be expensive and controversial.

Schmeek, your criticisms of the new Harbourside developments tend to be spot on but, without trying to defend or gloss over the problems and realities of said developments, I think you have the case of ''the grass is greener'' syndrome. For a start that list of comparisons between the two cities is neither accurate or comprehensive. Not to mention dare I say it, when applicable, the equivalent facility in Briz' tends to be the better of the two. Seriously, have you even been to the likes of the Techniquest, Yacht club, Mermaid Quay etc? not much to really be envious about there.

Without wanting to sound too critical (yeah right) it should be pointed out that away from the WMC, which is fantastic, Cardiff Bay suffers from exactly the same abundant malaise of dull construction most developers churn out in this country; I'd like to know where those decent flats are Schmeek, because lord knows they sure know how to hide 'em.

You gave a list of comparisons between the two but that doesn't reflect the reality of what either are like in well... real life. The Bay is out on the edge town and away from the older part of Butetown and WMC has developed as such, largely disconnected and based around the car.

The Harbourside is just another component of the city centre, so you can't really view it in the same isolation as the former. For example you might criticise the lack of a Hotel in the new development but there's literally a dozen or more hotels within a 2 minute walk of the Floating Harbour, and so what that there isn't an equivalent cinema complex that looks like it belongs to an out of town retail park, there's an impressive 700800 year old Cathedral, (as well as St Mary Redcliffe) instead.

Obviously that doesn't excuse the piss poor new builds and lack of vision and direction but you see what I'm getting at?

One way to remedy the current situation would be if Bristol had an elected mayor. As it stands the city is just not going to be able to fulfil it's potential with the current political set up.

Probably stick a :troll: smiley in here for the sake of it.

I take your points delirium.
Especially the fact that the bay is detached from the city centre, which is cardiff's biggest problem.But there is the opportunity to bring them together in the future, which is in no doubt the plan. Bristol can't rectify the errors of the harbourside without pulling lots of those building down imo.
Your point about the proximity of a whole host of hotels is exactly why I'd question the need to use up prime development space with an ugly value hotel. Completely unnecessary. Someones ticked a box without engaging there brain there, and it's not just the hotel; Some planners have got a strange idea of what brings footfall. Unless you're visiting the science centre/aquarium, you're down there to walk along the waterfront which, lets face it, you could do without any of the development. You're not there to visit m&s or tesco express, or to unwind in the tranquility of a small slither of hemmed in grass where you may or may not get a fleeting glimpse of the cathedral...
Talking of grass, I'm not sure its a case of the grass is always greener. I'm usually singing bristol's praises, and have always tried hard to support and like the harbourside. But this latest development at the bay(including the decent flats I mentioned), after the already incredible white water rapid course has served to high light bristol's short comings.
I suppose we might have the wave garden down the road, which will be a welcome boost.
Bring back the speed boat dock racing I say!

But this latest development at the bay(including the decent flats I mentioned), after the already incredible white water rapid course has served to high light bristol's short comings.

Sorry to harp on, but the white water course is another example of the funding inequality, as it was paid for by the Welsh Assembly and the Heritage Lottery fund. We simply cannot compete with that level of outside funding on relatively grandiose schemes.

On the other hand if we include all of Bristol's harbour area it's a different story. Now we can include the Arnolfini, the Watershed, M Shed and the SS Great Britain and the Matthew. We can also include decent flats at Capricorn Quay and by the SS Great Britain as well as the interesting housing at Bathurst Basin and Pooles Wharf.

I'm not saying that Cardiff Bay doesn't have a lot going for it, I just think it's almost like comparing an out of town shopping experience with a city centre one. (And there are advantages to both)

I take your points delirium.
Especially the fact that the bay is detached from the city centre, which is cardiff's biggest problem.But there is the opportunity to bring them together in the future, which is in no doubt the plan. Bristol can't rectify the errors of the harbourside without pulling lots of those building down imo.

Cardiff could only tie-in the Bay to the city centre by demolishing Butetown, and I don't think the residents would be too happy with that! Also, it's a long way - what would you replace it all with? Their best option is to improve the transport links with a tram or tram-train to replace that heavy rail service (which doesn't even go from Cardiff Central!).

Coming back to Bristol, despite the rather dull architecture, I always think Harbourside has a lot more soul than Cardiff Bay, maybe because it doesn't have vast empty expanses. I'd say it's major shortcoming is a lack of bridge to connect Cannon's Marsh to Cumberland Road side. This would really open up the Harbourside to more business, would help SS. Gt Britain and the M-Shed.

Looks like the council has started an e-petition (http://greaterbristolrail.com/2012/02/27/stop-press-sign-the-e-petition-to-government/) for better rail services in and around Bristol.
Signed it of course, but still, makes me wonder. Smacks a bit of desperation. Hope I'm wrong.

Yep. Never a level playing field. But there's undoubtedly competition between the two cities.
Cardiff may have had the barrage, but bristol was way in front in that sense - the floating harbour been around over a hundred years.
My point is that the bristol harbourside plans lacked foresight, imagination and an understanding of what bristol needed. Instead of allowing crest nicholson to fill the place with grotesque apartments and un inspiring bland boxes claiming to be 'leisure' in an ill conceived myriad of 'plots', they should have looked into using this prime one time opportunity in the heart of our city to build a future befitting of its past. Afterall, without the docks bristol would have been a much smaller, different place altogether; if in fact a place at all. We owed it to the docks. Reinventing itself was the phrase bandied about. Yeah, from a bustling thriving successful port to a stale, bland dead waterfront...
I dont see why they couldn't bring in some proper leading class city facilities/amenities/attractions other than the imax and the science museum. There could have been a much needed arena, a pool complex such as the one nightingale proposed for the tropicana. No doubt in my un qualified mind that these things would've been a success unlike the boarded empty shop fronts and ailing bars/restaurants we see today.

I look with envy at cardiff now because they are now filling the bay with exactly these kind of things. Its all about being a destination and things to do.
Cardiff have a huge advantage, but lets not use that as an excuse.
Bristol messed up big time here and missed a trick.

I totally agree. For me, I think the rot started for me when New Labour got in power and almost immediately withdrew lottery funding for the "Exploding Greenhouse." I started to lose interest in Bristol's future developments at that point. It has obviously been demoted as a city on the political level, apathetic local politics matched by a deliberate decision nationally to focus on the "regions." Bristol has (literally, at times) disappeared from the political map, replaced by Cardiff.

It all makes me very sad. When I return home, a lot of Bristolians seem to think it is the coolest city on the planet, and indeed, it has magnificent natural advantages and architectural heritage. But it has easily been overtaken by most other major cities in the UK, downgraded and left with an array of ultra-safe, bland architecture. I used to get really angry about it, but, like a typical Bristolian, I guess, I tend to :dunno: shrug my shoulders a bit these days since so much of the amazing potential has been squaundered.

Anybody got any images of this "Exploding Greenhouse" Project?

I don't remember it!

The exploding greenhouse idea was a tad shite.

It was pretty er unconventional, but, at the same time, it was a signature building. Nothing has come along since to put Bristol on the map.

I liked it.
Anyone remember one man's attempt to top one of the brick warehouse (was it the create centre maybe?)with thousands of wine bottles creating an illuminated pyramid? Shame that never came to fruition either in my opinion. That end of the harbour, towards the cumberland basin has some decent pubs and stuff, but appears a bit dark and dingy and out of the way. Would've brightened it up a bit.

Anybody got any images of this "Exploding Greenhouse" Project?

I don't remember it!

It was somewhere between amazing and mental, although I'm not quite sure where!

http://behnisch.com/projects/40

Hopefully the link will take you to the right page on the architect's website. They must have been quite proud of it, as it's still there sixteen years after they won the competition.

I liked it.
Anyone remember one man's attempt to top one of the brick warehouse (was it the create centre maybe?)with thousands of wine bottles creating an illuminated pyramid? Shame that never came to fruition either in my opinion. That end of the harbour, towards the cumberland basin has some decent pubs and stuff, but appears a bit dark and dingy and out of the way. Would've brightened it up a bit.

Yes, I think I do. A pyramid of green bottles. Weird but interesting.

It was somewhere between amazing and mental, although I'm not quite sure where!

http://behnisch.com/projects/40

Hopefully the link will take you to the right page on the architect's website. They must have been quite proud of it, as it's still there sixteen years after they won the competition.

Thanks for the link! Brings back memories . . . they had a nice office set up on the harbour with some great models. I would go down there frequently, imagining how this would transform the dockside and create an exciting cultural venue. It had pretty much passed all hurdles and was set to go. I was so pissed off when it was mercilessly cancelled as soon as New Labour got into power.

I struggle to think of one building of any real architectural merit that has been built on the docks, despite the amazing potential.

It's easy to admire and lament about unrealised ideas, that way they remain unspoiled. Chances are, if it was approved and built it would somehow end up resembling a more glassy Ikea [/cynicism]

Despite it all I would say Bristol is a far better place now than it's probably ever been. Most of all I would say there's been a tangible shift in how it's inhabitants view the city, in the last 5-10 years there's been a shift from quite a strong apathy to something resembling genuine pride and impetus towards their city amongst Bristolians (even the natives) that really wasn't there pre-2000 or hell, pre 2005. That might not sound like much, but it actually counts for a lot. I think the seeds for success rather than doom have been sown, even with the threat of Filton airfield closing.

Or I could be wrong and we're all fucked and destined to oblivion. lulz.


Just going back a bit...


Especially the fact that the bay is detached from the city centre, which is cardiff's biggest problem.But there is the opportunity to bring them together in the future, which is in no doubt the plan. Bristol can't rectify the errors of the harbourside without pulling lots of those building down imo.

They tried to do that with Lloyd George Avenue. It didn't work. Like Berty said the only way they'd be able to fill up the space would be to demolish Butetown, however apart from the moral dilemma of kicking out the inhabitants, what would be the point? There's not exactly a dearth of apartments in Cardiff, and commercially the demand for offices, even when it was the good times, especially to the extent you'd need to fill up Butetown, just wasn't and isn't there.


Your point about the proximity of a whole host of hotels is exactly why I'd question the need to use up prime development space with an ugly value hotel. Completely unnecessary. Someones ticked a box without engaging there brain there, and it's not just the hotel; Some planners have got a strange idea of what brings footfall. Unless you're visiting the science centre/aquarium, you're down there to walk along the waterfront which, lets face it, you could do without any of the development. You're not there to visit m&s or tesco express, or to unwind in the tranquility of a small slither of hemmed in grass where you may or may not get a fleeting glimpse of the cathedral...

Perhaps the success of @Bristol (seriously) as public space threw them off?

Leaving it as derelict land (Hargreaves-landsdown aside) probably wouldn't have been a bad idea! :D

But in all honesty you think on the whole, developments of a similar nature in The Bay were designed any better? such as Celestia? Mermaid quay? Prospect place? The Red Dragon centre? Adventures Quay etc? Er... not quite, They're all pretty terrible. As an urban experience, Cardiff Bay is about as nice an out of town retail park.
It should also be pointed out that as impressive as the International sports village sounds on paper and as respectful as an idea it is too, the reality is that it essentially resembles (and effectively is, as of 2012) a nondescript retail park by a windswept lake. Also, remember the Zaha Hadid Brouhaha?
Obviously the intent and idea behind it is to be lauded etc etc but to be envious about it is strange. Also, I'd guarantee you, if something like the water slalom were built where 'The Crescent' is, in an alternate reality, we'd be probably be moaning about why such an anti-urban and suburban development was approved .

Again it is ultimately comparison with a 14-odd acre city centre site with one that is spread over several square kilometres located in a city that, as has been said before, been given a much larger pool of funds and incentives to implement these projects. That might be dismissed as an excuse, but it's the truth and a pretty darn big one.

:shifty:

The Olympic Size swimming pool is finally open!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17201949

It's easy to admire and lament about unrealised ideas, that way they remain unspoiled. Chances are, if it was approved and built it would somehow end up resembling a more glassy Ikea [/cynicism]

Despite it all I would say Bristol is a far better place now than it's probably ever been. Most of all I would say there's been a tangible shift in how it's inhabitants view the city, in the last 5-10 years there's been a shift from quite a strong apathy to something resembling genuine pride and impetus towards their city amongst Bristolians (even the natives) that really wasn't there pre-2000 or hell, pre 2005. That might not sound like much, but it actually counts for a lot. I think the seeds for success rather than doom have been sown, even with the threat of Filton airfield closing.

Or I could be wrong and we're all fucked and destined to oblivion. lulz.

Just going back a bit...

They tried to do that with Lloyd George Avenue. It didn't work. Like Berty said the only way they'd be able to fill up the space would be to demolish Butetown, however apart from the moral dilemma of kicking out the inhabitants, what would be the point? There's not exactly a dearth of apartments in Cardiff, and commercially the demand for offices, even when it was the good times, especially to the extent you'd need to fill up Butetown, just wasn't and isn't there.

Perhaps the success of @Bristol (seriously) as public space threw them off?

Leaving it as derelict land (Hargreaves-landsdown aside) probably wouldn't have been a bad idea! :D

But in all honesty you think on the whole, developments of a similar nature in The Bay were designed any better? such as Celestia? Mermaid quay? Prospect place? The Red Dragon centre? Adventures Quay etc? Er... not quite.
It should also be pointed out that as impressive as the International sports village sounds on paper and as respectful as an idea it is too, the reality is that it's essentially resembles (and effectively is, as of 2012) a nondescript retail park by a lake. Also, remember the Zaha Hadid Brouhaha?
Obviously the intent and idea behind it is to be lauded etc etc but to be envious about it is strange. Also, I'd guarantee you, if something like the water slalom were built where 'The Crescent' is, in an alternate reality, we'd be probably be moaning about why such an anti-urban and suburban development was approved.

Again it is ultimately comparison with a 14-odd acre city centre site with one that is spread over several square kilometres located in a city that, as has been said before, been given a much larger pool of funds and incentives to implement these projects. That might be dismissed as an excuse, but it's the truth and a pretty darn big one.

:shifty:

Good post D.
I agree with most of that. I know hindsight's a great thing, but I can think of so many things I would've preferred here. A lot more open space would've been high on the list. Green space costs very little, unless that is, you see it as an asset and are counting on selling it to a developer...
The density down there just makes it too claustrophobic for my liking.
But having said that, it can still be a pleasant experience on harbourside, despite it's shortcomings. Just depends on the sun shining a bit too much though!
Anyway, lets leave it at that - what's done is done. Hopefully the promenade and the old purifier buildings will enhance things a bit.

Saw that too, and wondered if it was actually cause for worry, that a big campaign is required to persuade the powers that be that this should really be included in the Great Western franchise renewal. It sounded like an almost-sure thing before.

The proposals for the Greater Bristol Metro are listed in the rail update on the link.

http://www.westofengland.org/media/239804/item%2010%20rail%20update%20great%20western%20franchise.pdf

As that campaign website suggested, everything seems to hinge on the four tracking of Filton Bank. Apparently we find out in July if the government will pay for it. Fingers crossed.

Good post D.
Anyway, lets leave it at that - what's done is done. Hopefully the promenade and the old purifier buildings will enhance things a bit.

I'm quite hopeful about that bit. The promenade itself and the development of the purifier buildings, seem to have that bit of quality that has been missing from other parts of the site.