^^^^ This is what I have been wanting to see since the renderings came out, and I still have not seen what this will look like at night, One Indiana Square is going to have the crown lit up, so it should be very pleasant, but idk about the JW?

I would think that there will be very little lighting, other than the JW logo...

I personally think it would be pretty cool to see blue up lighting, (similar to Buckingham's building on meridian) utilizing the reflective properties of the fins to wash the building with refracted light ... just an idea. hopefully something interesting is done. I believe lighting is one of the most underutilized features when it comes to architecture. And why there aren't city standards ..... i couldn't tell ya. A dark skyline evokes no vitality, and gives off the impression that downtown is dead at night. How is a city going to attract the businesses associated with re-gentrification, such as restaurants, clubs, bars, etc. when downtown doesn't look livable. Granted theres a line when light pollution is brought into the equation; however, why Chase tower, a Downtown Icon, isnt lit up everynight, much less using a more advanced lighting system is beyond me. :bash:

^^Just what I was thinking. And to advertise a hotel, or a building in a greater way than is utilized in the present form!

SWIMININDY: "however, why Chase tower, a Downtown Icon, isnt lit up everynight, much less using a more advanced lighting system is beyond me."

As much as I can tell, Chase Tower is lit up pretty much every night. When do you usually see it not lit up? (Do they turn it "off" after midnight? (I do agree that its lighting "system" isn't too impressive though.) Market Tower has cool looking lights (not real bright - but its blue lights look pretty good) - and 300 N. Meridian is the same with its dim, golden lights. Then the rest mostly just have bright signs -- ie One American Square, M&I, Conrad, Hilton.... and pretty soon - the Indiana Square (Regions Bank) will have its whole top lit up. About the only big building downtown that isn't lit up in some way is the City-County building, and that maybe isn't all that bad, since its just a big rectangle (although it could be kind of neat to put some neon on that little wavy roof on top of the 27th floor:)). I'm not saying its the best downtown skyline lighting around - but its not too bad -- ie. completely dark. The lights on Monument Circle are also nice and the same with the World War Memorial, Scottish Rite Cathedral, Murat Temple and the Masonic Lodge. I agree, some nice uplighting on the JW Marriott would be good - but I kind of doubt that will happen - primarily because it is all hotel rooms and it probably wouldn't be the best thing to have lights shining outside people's rooms all the time.

If I recall, back in the 1990's and early 2000's the Chase Tower (then known as Bank One Tower) was very well lit and played a prominent role in our night skyline. I wonder what happened?

Its still lit up. Am I missing something?

I don't think you're missing anything -- it's lit up pretty much all the time. There are some rare occasions when they don't have it on and I have no idea why that is.

I know its on a much much smaller scale, but if you drive down College Ave from 62nd Street at night, the Old National Bank is on the east side of the street. The way they have this building lit catches my eye ALL the time. Its done perfectly to highlight the building which during the daytime, is nothing more than a modern structure.

But at night, they sure do make it look pretty neat.

Speaking of lighting... Anyone notice the small office building near 37th and Meridian on the east side of the street that has recently added a ever changing rainbow LED light display to it's entrance corridor / atrium. It's an eye catcher at night. Similar to the Scottish Rite it changes through the rainbow spectrum.

I agree that Chase (and I havementioned it numerous times over the years) could do a better/more creative job with the crown. Why does it always have to white? They could change the color for the holidays and the up-lighting could also change.

I have always thought that AUL would be great if the building was lined with piping simialr to that tower in Dallas that is lined with green piping. This would accentuate the design of the building and really add to the skyline.

As for JW, just having the mass of towers that far west of the core is going to make a huge impact.

SWIMININDY: "however, why Chase tower, a Downtown Icon, isnt lit up everynight, much less using a more advanced lighting system is beyond me."

As much as I can tell, Chase Tower is lit up pretty much every night. When do you usually see it not lit up? (Do they turn it "off" after midnight? (I do agree that its lighting "system" isn't too impressive though.) Market Tower has cool looking lights (not real bright - but its blue lights look pretty good) - and 300 N. Meridian is the same with its dim, golden lights. Then the rest mostly just have bright signs -- ie One American Square, M&I, Conrad, Hilton.... and pretty soon - the Indiana Square (Regions Bank) will have its whole top lit up. About the only big building downtown that isn't lit up in some way is the City-County building, and that maybe isn't all that bad, since its just a big rectangle (although it could be kind of neat to put some neon on that little wavy roof on top of the 27th floor:)). I'm not saying its the best downtown skyline lighting around - but its not too bad -- ie. completely dark. The lights on Monument Circle are also nice and the same with the World War Memorial, Scottish Rite Cathedral, Murat Temple and the Masonic Lodge. I agree, some nice uplighting on the JW Marriott would be good - but I kind of doubt that will happen - primarily because it is all hotel rooms and it probably wouldn't be the best thing to have lights shining outside people's rooms all the time.

I've been down on mass ave. thursday and friday nights for concerts, most recently for the Umphreys Mcgee Show back in March. It blew my mind, a night when several thousand young people are downtown, and the city ( as an corporate entity) has a chance to make a near perfect impression on the people they want to attract to the urban core yet it misses those details that can set the whole mood for a night on the town. Maybe I'm crying over minutia haha. But i totally agree with you about the CCB, they could do at least something with the top. after all thats where your eye is drawn. Regarding the JW ... the back i dont know if you noticed doesnt actually have many rooms on it, the elevator core seems to occupy a large swath of the buildings west facade. I assuming its just to be covered with glass. Perhaps something could be done their, or a lighting artist could collaborate with white river state park to do something playing off of views from the park. Im just ranting now lol. i digress. :nuts:

^^ So you're saying that on that night of the Umphree Mcgee concert, the Chase Tower wasn't lit up? I guess that's Chase Bank's fault - although, since its a private entity, I'm not sure what can be done. It would be difficult to require buildings to keep their lights on all the time. There are other problems that I have noticed downtown.
1) the State government complex seems to have completely cut their budget for gardening / landscaping. I haven't checked in the past few weeks, but earlier this summer - as you walked along Washington Street next to the Ind. Govt Center South building- - the plantings alongside the building are just a mess. No new plants or flowers - and the dirt beds are just covered in weeds. The State must have completely cut its lawn and garden maintenance budget. 2) The park south of the Simon headquarters is looking bad this summer. The beautiful fountain has not been turned on at all. The steps have barricades across them too - I guess due to a few loose bricks or something. It could be really nice, right across from the Convention Center - yet it looks pretty dilapidated right now. (Likewise with Pan Am Plaza, but that's been discussed previously). Who's fault is this? Simon? Who owns the plaza south of Simon headquarters? Who is responsible for the fountain? Who is responsible for Pan Am Plaza? Those areas should be beautiful places - but their definitely lacking right now. It may just be the tight budgets - but still ..... pretty sad.

I have not noticed that, it is pretty depressing. Perhaps you can check on those things next week Garfield Park, will ya? I'm thinking its because the weather was so shitty in the past few weeks or so.

I'm on vacation starting tomorrow :) but, when I get back I'll see what I can find out.

(Likewise with Pan Am Plaza, but that's been discussed previously). Who's fault is this?

I do believe that the Indiana Sports Corporation owns and is supposed to maintain Pan Am, in exchange for the tower next to it they got. I believe they are trying to unload it for budget purposes, and have not been maintaining it. I used to work just down the street about a block away, and it does look bad in the plaza.

from Saturday

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/IMG_0427.jpg

That this tower isn't even halfway (vertically) done yet. The impact this will have as shown in the picture will be incredible! :cheers:

^^ So you're saying that on that night of the Umphree Mcgee concert, the Chase Tower wasn't lit up? I guess that's Chase Bank's fault - although, since its a private entity, I'm not sure what can be done. It would be difficult to require buildings to keep their lights on all the time.

Perhaps some sort of incentive could be introduced. If there was some loop hole in the law maybe the buildings could be forced to keep their lights on -unless they retrofit the lights power source with a green energy alternative, (similar to the downtown Hilton's solar panels) which in effect takes the lighting scheme off the grid thus giving them no reason to not have them off from there on out .... does that make sense hah ?


And Awesome Picture !!!!! Can you imagine, 20 more floors on top of what's already there !!!!! if only there 15 more buildings of this magnitude going up in downtown lol.

I was also wondering the reason for the late decision on changing the glass' color scheme ??? The JW / Ritz complex in LA did plenty in that department and ended up looking well executed in my opinion ...

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww181/FightOnArchies/LA%20Live/IMG_1848.jpg

I found the mixed colors of the JW glass quite pleasing. To be honest, I would have liked a few views of it with the glass that way. It may have been dated in time, however for my sake and possibly a few others, it would have been a good comparison issue.

An FYI:

There's a good view of the tower from the top floor of the Central Library. It's a nice place to size up the skyline and guesstimate where the JW will top out.

The CCB is directly across from it on the other side of downtown. You can make an imaginary straight line from east to west and see its approximate height.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/cwilson758/JWMarriottfromCC.jpg

That view gives west Washington Street so much more POP now. And it's not even halfway up yet!. Also, the Simon Tower gives a nice transition from the core to the JW tower since some of their glass elements complement. :)

I personally didn't like the mixed color look. It has a rather cheap or storm damaged look to it. The renderings made it look as if windows were boarded up or covered up because of broken glass.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3641/3679822698_b618a8d154.jpg

I personally didn't like the mixed color look. It has a rather cheap or storm damaged look to it. The renderings made it look as if windows were boarded up or covered up because of broken glass.

Ha! That's a great description. However, I think if done correctly, using different color glass can work quite nicely. But you need to be careful with which colors you select and how you arrange them. Allen plaza is using a multi-color approach aren't they? Let's hope that one turns out right and doesn't have the storm-damaged effect.

The lighting on some of those 3d renderings for the JW didn't do much justice to the multi-colored glass effect. I can certainly see how it looked like boarded up windows...

I'm trying to "guestimate" the impact the JW will have on the western skyline... taking in to account perspective. It may look taller than Market Tower but it's closer in the pic. Im guessing about twice the size of the T/O Courtyard pic. What do you think?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/view.jpg

I'm trying to "guestimate" the impact the JW will have on the western skyline... taking in to account perspective. It may look taller than Market Tower but it's closer in the pic. Im guessing about twice the size of the T/O Courtyard pic. What do you think?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/view.jpg

It looks to me that that scale looks pretty accurate (although I don't quite know how high the structure currently sits); anything that will dwarf the boxy state building will be great! I love how it extends the skyline further north.

You mean west? ;)

Market Tower is listed as 421 feet, for comparison to 375 feet that the JW is going to be as I understand.

Check out the JW pictures on the Indy Star website!

http://photos.indystar.com/galleries/6782-downtown-construction-update.embed

The Star needs to take a cue from the Boston Globe's "The Big Picture" and not serve up pics at 400x500.

SMSC1, do you know the heights of the 2 shorter towers in the complex?

The only height stats I can find are on the main JW Marriott tower.

SMSC1, do you know the heights of the 2 shorter towers in the complex?

The only height stats I can find are on the main JW Marriott tower.
Emporis says 44.81m for the Courtyard/Springhill:

http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=284157

and 28.04m for the Fairfield:

http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=215840

Emporis says 44.81m for the Courtyard/Springhill:

http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=284157

and 28.04m for the Fairfield:

http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=215840

Thanks.

Ha! I found those pages, but didn't scroll down far enough. The maps weren't loading and it looked like there was nothing below.

So, according to Emporis,

The Courtyard/Springhill is 147 ft (44.81 m)

JW Marriot is 376 ft (114.71 m)

That makes the JW Marriott almost exactly 2.5 x taller than the Courtyard Springhill building.

So good news Indywatch, your guesstimate should be taller! :-)

I'm trying to "guestimate" the impact the JW will have on the western skyline... taking in to account perspective. It may look taller than Market Tower but it's closer in the pic. Im guessing about twice the size of the T/O Courtyard pic. What do you think?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/view.jpg

Based on the measurements above, maybe something more like this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/3694816481_90ec853a56_o.jpg

From indystar.com:

Downtown Marriott nearly halfway done
By Ted Evanoff

Once it was a small Courtyard hotel and a restaurant, TGI Friday.

Then it was a big gaping hole. Now it is starting to look like what it will be:

One skyscraper, three other hotels, 1,626 guest rooms, a huge ballroom and, yes, a new Friday’s.

It is Marriott Place, a $450 million hotel center transforming Downtown’s west wing.

Construction crews have neared the halfway point in erecting the 1,005-room JW Marriott, the glass tower rising Downtown in tandem with the Indianapolis Convention Center expansion.

* * *

Story by story

Having put up about 17 stories so far, crews are erecting steel at a rate of one story every 10 days, a pace that would top off the 34-story tower by year’s end or early in the new year, notes Cory Chamber, director of sales and marketing for the big hotel.

* * *

Glass-paneled exterior

As the steel and concrete go up, crews dress the exterior with individual panels of glass colored cobalt blue. In all, 7,300 panels will grace the tower.

“The whole idea is to have the glass installers chase the concrete guys right to the top,’’ Chamber said. “This’ll allow us to get inside to avoid winter’’ and fit out the interior during the inclement months.

* * *

Call Indy the skywalk capital

Everyone regards Minneapolis as well connected — when it comes to skywalks sheltering pedestrians from bad weather. Indianapolis soon will surpass Frozenapolis and rank No. 1 when the new hotels’ skywalks are added to the present network of walkways linking eight existing hotels and the convention center.

“When it’s all completed, we’ll have more hotel rooms connected than any other city in the country,’’ said Chamber, whose employer is co-developer White Lodging of Merrillville, Ind.

The room score: Indianapolis 4,700, Minneapolis 4,000.

In all, Downtown will have 27 hotels containing 7,100 guest rooms — with 5,100 rooms, 200 restaurants and 50 tourist attractions within six blocks of the convention center at 100 S. Capitol.

Explosion of hotel rooms coming

The four hotels are being constructed by the 800 to 1,000 workers who rotate in and out on the site at South West and West Washington streets.

So far, despite one construction death, building is on schedule. The big JW Marriott’s debut remains February 2011.

Last week, workers topped off the Courtyard by Marriott (297 rooms) and Springhill Suites by Marriott (156 rooms). Renovation proceeds on the site’s former hotel, which will metamorphise as Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott (168 rooms).

Fairfield is to open next February, followed in a month by Courtyard and Springhill.

* * *

Marriott Place is intended to support a bigger convention center.

That $275 million expansion, including the construction of a three-story glass entrance pavilion, is 40 percent complete and on schedule.

The expansion on the former site of the RCA Dome will add about 420,000 square feet of exhibit, meeting, registration and pre-function space.


* * *

In terms of square feet in one place, the expansion will move Indianapolis to 16th among U.S. convention cities from 33rd, reports the trade magazine Constructor.

That will bring the size to about 1.1 million square feet, including convention spill over space in the $720 million Lucas Oil Stadium that opened last year.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090706/BUSINESS/90706027/Downtown+Marriott+nearly+half+done

"Downtown Marriott nearly halfway done
By Ted Evanoff

Once it was a small Courtyard hotel and a restaurant, TGI Friday."

Actually --- the real history is that .....

"Once it was a small Howard Johnson's hotel with a Howard Johnson's Restaurant (with an orange roof)."

I guess I'm dating myself but I remember when this current location of the JW Marriott complex housed a Howard Johnson's hotel. It was turned into the Courtyard (and the Howard Johnson's restaurant was torn down). I'm thinking that happened around 1986 or so.

"In all, Downtown will have 27 hotels containing 7,100 guest rooms — with 5,100 rooms, 200 restaurants and 50 tourist attractions within six blocks of the convention center at 100 S. Capitol."

I can't figure out which hotels they are counting as not within 6 blocks of the convention center. The only ones I can think of are the Days Inn (about 110 rooms) and the University Place hotel (about 350 rooms). I don't know how they figure there are 2000 hotel rooms further away than six blocks. The Sheraton on the north side of the circle is only five blocks away and the two hotels on the canal are only five blocks away as well. I can only count up 460 rooms that are further away than six blocks. Anyone have any idea which other 1540 rooms are further than six blocks away?

What does everybody think about the glass on the JW? To me it seems darker than i would've anticipated. Especially when you look at the webcam on http://www.huntjwindy.com/

Thoughts?

From indystar.com:

Downtown Marriott nearly halfway done
By Ted Evanoff

Once it was a small Courtyard hotel and a restaurant, TGI Friday.

Then it was a big gaping hole. Now it is starting to look like what it will be:

One skyscraper, three other hotels, 1,626 guest rooms, a huge ballroom and, yes, a new Friday’s.

It is Marriott Place, a $450 million hotel center transforming Downtown’s west wing.

Construction crews have neared the halfway point in erecting the 1,005-room JW Marriott, the glass tower rising Downtown in tandem with the Indianapolis Convention Center expansion.

* * *

Story by story

Having put up about 17 stories so far, crews are erecting steel at a rate of one story every 10 days, a pace that would top off the 34-story tower by year’s end or early in the new year, notes Cory Chamber, director of sales and marketing for the big hotel.

* * *

Glass-paneled exterior

As the steel and concrete go up, crews dress the exterior with individual panels of glass colored cobalt blue. In all, 7,300 panels will grace the tower.

“The whole idea is to have the glass installers chase the concrete guys right to the top,’’ Chamber said. “This’ll allow us to get inside to avoid winter’’ and fit out the interior during the inclement months.

* * *

Call Indy the skywalk capital

Everyone regards Minneapolis as well connected — when it comes to skywalks sheltering pedestrians from bad weather. Indianapolis soon will surpass Frozenapolis and rank No. 1 when the new hotels’ skywalks are added to the present network of walkways linking eight existing hotels and the convention center.

“When it’s all completed, we’ll have more hotel rooms connected than any other city in the country,’’ said Chamber, whose employer is co-developer White Lodging of Merrillville, Ind.

The room score: Indianapolis 4,700, Minneapolis 4,000.

In all, Downtown will have 27 hotels containing 7,100 guest rooms — with 5,100 rooms, 200 restaurants and 50 tourist attractions within six blocks of the convention center at 100 S. Capitol.

Explosion of hotel rooms coming

The four hotels are being constructed by the 800 to 1,000 workers who rotate in and out on the site at South West and West Washington streets.

So far, despite one construction death, building is on schedule. The big JW Marriott’s debut remains February 2011.

Last week, workers topped off the Courtyard by Marriott (297 rooms) and Springhill Suites by Marriott (156 rooms). Renovation proceeds on the site’s former hotel, which will metamorphise as Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott (168 rooms).

Fairfield is to open next February, followed in a month by Courtyard and Springhill.

* * *

Marriott Place is intended to support a bigger convention center.

That $275 million expansion, including the construction of a three-story glass entrance pavilion, is 40 percent complete and on schedule.

The expansion on the former site of the RCA Dome will add about 420,000 square feet of exhibit, meeting, registration and pre-function space.


* * *

In terms of square feet in one place, the expansion will move Indianapolis to 16th among U.S. convention cities from 33rd, reports the trade magazine Constructor.

That will bring the size to about 1.1 million square feet, including convention spill over space in the $720 million Lucas Oil Stadium that opened last year.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090706/BUSINESS/90706027/Downtown+Marriott+nearly+half+done

Error in the article by Ted Evanoff. No fatalities have occured on the JW project. Retracted in today's reprint.

He also says it is a steel frame tower. ;)

Also an FYI, the 17th floor, just cast, is at elevation 888, or 177' above the first floor. 200' to go.

"What does everybody think about the glass on the JW? To me it seems darker than i would've anticipated. Especially when you look at the webcam on http://www.huntjwindy.com/

Thoughts?"

When I clicked on the camera - at about 5:10 pm Tuesday July 7th, the glass looked dark at the bottom part of the building - where it was reflecting the parking garage across the street. The upper part - not so dark -- where it was catching more of the sun. It'll be interesting to see that view in another month or so when more glass covers more floors on the building. I'm curious how well and how much of the skyline will reflect in it.

Also an FYI, the 17th floor, just cast, is at elevation 888, or 177' above the first floor. 200' to go.

The height isn't not even halfway done yet? That's amazing! :cheers:

Error in the article by Ted Evanoff. No fatalities have occured on the JW project. Retracted in today's reprint.

Weird. I didn't even notice that (incorrect) line about the death.

Thanks for the height info too.

SMSC1, do you have any insight into why the Courtyard/Springhill is so awful?

Have you heard anyone else outside of the forum comment on it's ugliness?

Did they blow the whole budget on glass for the JW?

^^ I'm curious about the budget because in earlier renderings of the second version, the second tower is actually part of the complex, and uses more glass, less EIFS, which imho looks much better.

(Sorry about the red lines, they're from an earlier post in which I bitched about how anti-pedestrian the whole area is.)

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/JWunfriendlycrop.jpg

For the first time -- in the view from the west -- I saw some of the blue glass beginning to stick up above the Convention Hall space of the complex. That definitely makes a nice difference. Whereas previously the structure sticking up in the view from the west was all gray concrete, now you're starting to see the shiny blue glass in front of the skyline. Looks good. Another week or two and we should be able to see significantly more of this blue glass from the west. And by November -- another fifteen or so floors should be covered in blue. Check it out if you get a chance.

I'm not going to comment on the asthetics of the select service properties, other than remember the goal of a hotel is to make money, and these have to do it at SH/CY/FFI rates, low room counts, and it is all private money to build.

When you start throwing $70 bucks per sq ft at a curtainwall, it can knock your $ per key proforma off track in a hurry.


Also remember the foundations are in place for that west tower, should the economics ever allow it.

I'm not going to comment on the asthetics of the select service properties, other than remember the goal of a hotel is to make money, and these have to do it at SH/CY/FFI rates, low room counts, and it is all private money to build.

When you start throwing $70 bucks per sq ft at a curtainwall, it can knock your $ per key proforma off track in a hurry.


Also remember the foundations are in place for that west tower, should the economics ever allow it.

lol, thanks. I was afraid you'd have to be diplomatic. :-)

I wasn't aware of the foundations for a future tower. Very interesting, thanks!

For the first time -- in the view from the west -- I saw some of the blue glass beginning to stick up above the Convention Hall space of the complex. That definitely makes a nice difference. Whereas previously the structure sticking up in the view from the west was all gray concrete, now you're starting to see the shiny blue glass in front of the skyline. Looks good. Another week or two and we should be able to see significantly more of this blue glass from the west. And by November -- another fifteen or so floors should be covered in blue. Check it out if you get a chance.

I noticed the same thing yesterday. It's lookin' good!

This is, by far, one of the worst projects I've seen in a long time. I know a lot of people on here get all gilltery-eyed at building height, but spare me. Seriously, this is an AWFUL project that does zero to add to the streetscape or pedestrian experience.

This is, by far, one of the worst projects I've seen in a long time. I know a lot of people on here get all gilltery-eyed at building height, but spare me. Seriously, this is an AWFUL project that does zero to add to the streetscape or pedestrian experience.

The central corridor for the Cultural Trail will run right past this development, it's across the street from WRSP, Victory Field AND it has well over a 1,600+ rooms in the entire complex. I'm pretty damn sure once this is said and done it will add immensely to the surrounding landscape. -end rant-

This is, by far, one of the worst projects I've seen in a long time. I know a lot of people on here get all gilltery-eyed at building height, but spare me. Seriously, this is an AWFUL project that does zero to add to the streetscape or pedestrian experience.

If this is one of the worst you've seen....then luck you, you must've been spared some of the real crap that's out there. This is a very decent project. It was rough-going in the beginning (the very first design...ugh), but thankfully they've taken the time to try to improve it. It will provide some pretty dense infill compared to what was on the site previously. But more importantly, this project is one of the key pieces in increasing Indy's convention business. The end goal is to get thousands more visitors in this city at a time, walking around downtown, patronizing our local businesses. If that's not an enhancement of the "pedestrian experience", I don't know what is.

This is, by far, one of the worst projects I've seen in a long time. I know a lot of people on here get all gilltery-eyed at building height, but spare me. Seriously, this is an AWFUL project that does zero to add to the streetscape or pedestrian experience.

No shit, Sherlock.

^^ Since I can't change what's being built, I'll focus on what's good about it. We're lucky to even have a nice blue tower. The first two iterations had zero redeeming qualities.

This is what we were almost stuck with:

Marriott Slab Horrifies Indianapolis Residents (http://skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=1150)

^^That link at least shows the second generation. Don't forget the first horrific proposal:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QDek7NNolBw/RZHTU48cYeI/AAAAAAAAAAU/LvgrzHKMHZk/s320/Marriott.jpg

I know that I go on and on about looks of buildings, as with the accompanying ones in this project.. However no complaints from me about the Blue JW design and may I say -it's height. I must say that the second design I kinda liked, the glass parts at the top was kinda nice as well. That first on reminded me of the old Blue Cross Tower-eek!

http://www.jwindy.com/jwi/presentation.htm

The dinner in the video looked really good. Did one of the renders have the multi-colored glass?

Jeez... WHo cares about the height? Skylines are nice and all, but they don't really mean anything for the experience on the ground. I can think of several cities with decent skylines that have horrible connectivity and terrible streetscapes that harm the pedestrian experience. Paris, by contrast, has almost zero skyline and one of the richest pedestrian experiences there is in a functional urban form. This is simply a vertical suburban interstate exit hotel. Sure, it's tall and adds a lot of rooms to the area... greaaaaaaat... But, it doesn't add anything more than that. If, in conjunction with this or a similar project, the City showed some sort of semblance of a clue and actually did something to enhance pedestrian safety on West or Washington Streets, I might be a little more enthusiastic. But, just bringing a bunch people to a place that's kinda near downtown does zero to achieve any kind of functionality.

Jeez... WHo cares about the height? Skylines are nice and all, but they don't really mean anything for the experience on the ground. I can think of several cities with decent skylines that have horrible connectivity and terrible streetscapes that harm the pedestrian experience. Paris, by contrast, has almost zero skyline and one of the richest pedestrian experiences there is in a functional urban form. This is simply a vertical suburban interstate exit hotel. Sure, it's tall and adds a lot of rooms to the area... greaaaaaaat... But, it doesn't add anything more than that. If, in conjunction with this or a similar project, the City showed some sort of semblance of a clue and actually did something to enhance pedestrian safety on West or Washington Streets, I might be a little more enthusiastic. But, just bringing a bunch people to a place that's kinda near downtown does zero to achieve any kind of functionality.

Since most of your 30 something posts are negative, I doubt this project will ever please you, but I will add to the above comments that the new sidewalk layout around the site, combined with the JW ART PLAZA on Washington St with many user friendly features, clear glass on ground floors, to "bring the outside people in", a great Sports Bar across the street from the Victory Field gates, an all new high end Itallian Restaurant, all say more than interstate exit hotel, to me anyway.

One man's negaativity is another man's realism. This city has zero dedication to any kind of progressive planning or zoning. Reeference our 1960's Euclidean zoning ordinance:
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Pages/municode.aspx

Reference Denver's new form-based code:
http://www.newcodedenver.org/

If Indy planning and zoning were a movie, reference its title:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112697/

Reference Denver's new form-based code:
http://www.newcodedenver.org/


Love it! They are now letting hippies with web links plan the development. How will they ever approve anything besides green energy Starbucks with wireless hot spots?

Um, okay.

Even if there were the most amazing street front shopping and restaurants at the JW-M -- and I think the realities of car loading/unloading requirements for a gigantic complex like this preclude such a thing ever having been reality -- would you really expect people to walk on Maryland past the complex, across the Washington St. bridge to......?

Realistically, pedestrian traffic on Wash/Maryland is going to die at the river NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO AT THE JW-M. I'm not going to lose a whole lot of sleep because this complex pulls that back east by a block or so. And if the essential goal is to draw people from the core to WRSP, they'll need to be drawn through the wastelands to the east of the complex first. The Cultural Trail is our best bet to bring people west to enjoy the park, not a couple more restaurants at ground level at the JW-M. I'd rather have those restaurants in the core of downtown anyway.

Giant, blank walls and an uninviting pedestrian realm are certainoly not unique to this project or this general area. And I understand your point aout drawing people to WRSP. But at what point do the leaders of development in this town say enough is enough? Probably never, I know.

Just to add to my earlier comment, I think it's important that people realize that there are a finite number of restaurants and retail that a city can support and that we must consider these resources as precious items that generate pedestrian activity. To have put more restaurants and retail in the JW-M complex would have been a waste of those precious resources. We're better off placing those in the core of downtown and generating the pedestrian activity there than trying to make oases that will draw people out.

Too often, I think people want to have primary pedestrian activity everywhere in this city. That's simply not realistic in a city this size. Suburban Nation's authors propose that cities designate A and B areas of retail where you attempt to concentrate pedestrian activity with street-front retail/restaurants in one area. Indy has done a very good job in the last couple decades creating an A zone of perhaps 12 city blocks in the core and we're better off growing OUT from there as we see with restaurant activity moving further and further east along Washington. I consider the JW-M to be a B area particularly because of it's pedestrian-unfriendly location on MANY major vehicular thoroughfares. Personally, I wouldn't want it to try to be an A.

Lol, I think Duany meant for the A and B zones to be more on a regional or city-wide scale, not on a block-by-block downtown basis. I mean, for god's sake, all of Development Area I should be an A zone. To speak in transects, T-4 through T-6, at the ABSOLUTE minimum, should be an A zone. I mean for God's sake, this project is well within the 5-minute pedestrian shed of the most urban core in the ENTIRE STATE. And I'm not saying it needed more retail or restaurant or candy shop or hookah bar or rake store, I'm saying that any kind of ground floor transparency would have been preferable to the hideous grandiosity that are the street-level blank walls. I mean, dreadful doesn't even begin to describe those things. Just looking at the street-level renderings makes my body shiver and crave prozac.

And my point is that just because it's a big, tall, shiny building, we have an entire message board acting like it's the messiah of urbanity in Indianapolis. Pfffttt... I'm not sold.

Lol, I think Duany meant for the A and B zones to be more on a regional or city-wide scale, not on a block-by-block downtown basis. I mean, for god's sake, all of Development Area I should be an A zone. To speak in transects, T-4 through T-6, at the ABSOLUTE minimum, should be an A zone. I mean for God's sake, this project is well within the 5-minute pedestrian shed of the most urban core in the ENTIRE STATE. And I'm not saying it needed more retail or restaurant or candy shop or hookah bar or rake store, I'm saying that any kind of ground floor transparency would have been preferable to the hideous grandiosity that are the street-level blank walls. I mean, dreadful doesn't even begin to describe those things. Just looking at the street-level renderings makes my body shiver and crave prozac.

And my point is that just because it's a big, tall, shiny building, we have an entire message board acting like it's the messiah of urbanity in Indianapolis. Pfffttt... I'm not sold.
I believe the argument is that it should be scaled according to the finite number of retail/restaurants that a particular area can support. Whatever boundary you want to draw around the center of the city, it can't support the volume of retail and restaurants necessary to fully activate the streets for a 5 minute walk in every direction from the Circle. That's not realistic.

I also don't think this complex is the messiah of urbanity. In fact, I completely agree that it sucks looking at it purely from a pedestrian perspective. I'm arguing that it doesn't have to be the messiah of urbanity, perhaps even shouldn't be. Personally I don't buy the argument for trying to generate pedestrian activity on what is essentially an expressway. That is doomed to fail.

Personally I don't buy the argument for trying to generate pedestrian activity on what is essentially an expressway. That is doomed to fail.

Categorically false.

But, you know, that's another thing that the city could have done as part of a requirement for the project... demand right-of-way acquisition to clear room for on-street parking, narrow the lanes, create better pedestrian crossings, etc. etc.

But, of course, that didn't happen.

Categorically false.
Examples?

Examples?

http://www.earth-photography.com/photos/Countries/France/France_Paris_ChampsElysees2.jpg

I'm afraid to post this in an Indianapolis development forum for fear of retaliation, but many cities are using the following sorts of models in designing urban thoroughfares and their surrounding public realm:

http://www.ite.org/css/FactSheet5.pdf

http://www.earth-photography.com/photos/Countries/France/France_Paris_ChampsElysees2.jpg
Pedestrian activity is not ON the expressway in this picture. They're buffering people by several layers, including a low speed frontage road, from the high speed traffic. If you tried to acquire enough ROW to do this in front of the JW-M, there'd be almost no land left for the complex. Not to mention that it would be impossible to do this along the whole length of West.

Not to be rude, but your goals for this area are a pipe dream.

I think what they should do with West Street is turn it into a boulevard type street, like it is on the east side of Victory Field. That would do wonders for pedestrians and visitors alike. :cheers:

Not to be rude, but your goals for this area are a pipe dream.
In Indianapolis... absolutely. :lol:

Sorry, I can't turn my brain off right now and I feel like I ended on a rude note (even though I was attempting not to). What I think is that the clash here is not necessarily a complete disagreement of ideas -- I think we have significant overlap -- but a clash of realism and idealism. I'm not saying I'm opposed to the concept of trying to create a pedestrian-friendly West St. with a wonderful tree-lined street, frontage roads, bike lanes and wide sidewalks. In an ideal world with infinite money, political clout, etc. I'd say we should do that in a heartbeat. But when I think about the pros and cons, there's no way that that is an efficient use of resources for our city. Because of the realities of what is already built on and to the west of West St. -- almost all of West St. has buildings of significance (i.e. built to last) that were designed with the assumption of almost no pedestrian activity on West St. -- I think you will get almost no benefit from your money. We're not tearing down the whole West St. edifice to make better activate a beautiful new urban parkway.

My take is that West St. is a lost cause from a pedestrian perspective and our money is better used elsewhere.

Pedestrian activity is not ON the expressway in this picture. They're buffering people by several layers, including a low speed frontage road, from the high speed traffic. If you tried to acquire enough ROW to do this in front of the JW-M, there'd be almost no land left for the complex. Not to mention that it would be impossible to do this along the whole length of West.

You could do any of a number of these things that would help make it much more walkable. My contention wasn't that this was possible on this site, just that corridors of heavy traffic and pedestrians can easily coexist.

Sorry, I can't turn my brain off right now and I feel like I ended on a rude note (even though I was attempting not to). What I think is that the clash here is not necessarily a complete disagreement of ideas -- I think we have significant overlap -- but a clash of realism and idealism. I'm not saying I'm opposed to the concept of trying to create a pedestrian-friendly West St. with a wonderful tree-lined street, frontage roads, bike lanes and wide sidewalks. In an ideal world with infinite money, political clout, etc. I'd say we should do that in a heartbeat. But when I think about the pros and cons, there's no way that that is an efficient use of resources for our city. Because of the realities of what is already built on and to the west of West St. -- almost all of West St. has buildings of significance (i.e. built to last) that were designed with the assumption of almost no pedestrian activity on West St. -- I think you will get almost no benefit from your money. We're not tearing down the whole West St. edifice to make better activate a beautiful new urban parkway.

My take is that West St. is a lost cause from a pedestrian perspective and our money is better used elsewhere.

Oh, heck, I know. And I don't mean to be rude to you either. But, I actually view West Street and streets like it as anything but a lost cause. I realize all of the realities out there, but I just don't see them as an excuse for the perpetuation of terrible urbanism. I guess that's where your opinions and mine probably diverge.

Very nice discussin' with you. Let's go grab a beer at Zing. But no cheatin' -- you gotta walk on West St. at some point on your way! ;)

Lively thread today! Good work gents.

Lively thread today! Good work gents.

Mr. SMSC1 (or to whom it may concern) what are the plans for the "pedestrian experience" of this complex. Like how will the sidewalks and landscaping look? How will the Cultural Trail integrate with this development? What will the JW ArtPark look like? And lastly, I heard a rumor there was gonna be a pedestrian bridge over Washington Street, is this still true? Thank you for your time. :)

I heard the art for the JW was already decided upon or close to it. My wife inquired as she was interested in providing some artwork.

Very nice discussin' with you. Let's go grab a beer at Zing. But no cheatin' -- you gotta walk on West St. at some point on your way! ;)

Aw, heck, when I was at IUPUI, I rode my bike on West Street during rush hour. Not a very pleasant experience... Beer, however, is ALWAYS a pleasant experience. :cheers:

^^^ Speaking of which Corr, isnt it about time we had another meet up? Been over a year I believe and we have many new projects and new people to welcome to the board!

Aw, heck, when I was at IUPUI, I rode my bike on West Street during rush hour. Not a very pleasant experience... Beer, however, is ALWAYS a pleasant experience. :cheers:
HUGE cojones, my friend. That is the one road where I say "fuck it, I'm riding on the sidewalk."
^^^ Speaking of which Corr, isnt it about time we had another meet up? Been over a year I believe and we have many new projects and new people to welcome to the board!
Good point. I'll see what kind of route/timing I can come up with and we'll see when people can meet.

Good point. I'll see what kind of route/timing I can come up with and we'll see when people can meet.

Count me in.

WTF!!! Can anyone from OxBlue or the JW actual send someone up to clean the cam once in awhile? It doesn't look good in trying to promote the new hotel, and have a dirty cam lense for your only pics to the world outside of Indy.

http://www.oxblue.com/pro/

HUGE cojones, my friend. That is the one road where I say "fuck it, I'm riding on the sidewalk."

Good point. I'll see what kind of route/timing I can come up with and we'll see when people can meet.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk? Shame on you.

Riding a bike on the sidewalk? Shame on you.

Riding on sidewalks is permissible under the Municipal code of Indianapolis.

A person who operates a bicycle on a sidewalk or greenway in the city shall do so only in the following manner:
(1) The bicycle shall not be operated at a speed, or in any manner, which constitutes a threat to the safety of either the bicycle operator or other persons, or diminishes or impairs the free use of the sidewalk or greenway by other persons.
(2) The person propelling, and each person riding upon, a bicycle shall be seated upon a permanent and regular seat firmly attached to the bicycle;
(3) The person propelling the bicycle shall not allow more persons to be carried at one (1) time than the number for which the bicycle is designed and equipped;
(4) The bicycle shall be equipped with a bell or other device capable of giving an audible signal, lamps, and brakes in the same manner as is required by state law for bicycles operated upon a highway; and
(5) The bicycle's bell or other device capable of giving an audible signal shall be sounded not less than fifty (50) feet from any pedestrian or vehicle approaching upon the sidewalk or greenway.

It should be done with caution and in moderation and in compliance with the law, but sometimes there's no other way to do it. West Street, with heavy and fast traffic and little pedestrian activity, makes sense as one of those places.

Riding on sidewalks is permissible under the Municipal code of Indianapolis. It should be done with caution and in moderation and in compliance with the law, but sometimes there's no other way to do it. West Street, with heavy and fast traffic and little pedestrian activity, makes sense as one of those places.

I love zipping through all the tourists around the Conrad on my bike in the summer.

Note that on the webcam link, there is a time lapse button. It takes a minute to load, but it shows it all in 15 minute incements.

Look now or forever hold your peace. http://www.huntjwindy.com/ (look under webcam) The tower itself looks rather striking at night. :)

The webcam has finally been cleaned as well ! :cheers:

Snapped this with an old Olympus film camera last week. Was out with my wife at the Stutz and we were able to go to the top of the building where they have a little gazeebo. Offered some cool shots of the city.

This shows how tall the JW was then though
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3744850494_4f86fb4d14_b.jpg

I wonder how much taller it will look when its done. Because right now its a small blip. Great pic tho!

Draw a straight line across from the top of the CCB to see approx where it will top out. The JW will be slightly taller than the CCB.

I thought it would have a bigger impact on the skyline. It looks tiny from that angle.

I love how far away it is from the core, it streeeeeetches the skyline. We just need a couple more 100 m towers further away from the circle and the city will look much larger.

"I thought it would have a bigger impact on the skyline. It looks tiny from that angle. " -- Hoosier

I think it will be "taller" than a line drawn straight across from the height of the CCB in that picture. The JW Marriott is a couple of blocks closer to the photographer than the CCB is -- so a straight line won't be correct. (you can tell how much of a difference being two blocks closer is in height perspective when you look at the CCB and the M&I bank building in the eastern part of the skyline. Both are about the same height in reality but the M&I building sticks up quite a bit above the CCB because it is closer. The JWMarriott should also look taller than a line that is even with the top of the CCB.

BTW, I was downtown by the Marriott complex today and counted the floors. It is up to 19 right now - so 15 more to go. (That should also give an indication of total future height to consider in that picture. If the picture was taken a week ago, the picture probably shows about 18 floors built with 16 left to go.) So it is a little more than half its full height in the picture. That should give a better idea of how tall it will be. Add approximately 40% to its height and that should give a better idea. (The bottom four floors are each higher than the remaining fifth through 34th floors - so its definitely pretty well beyond 55% of its height now.)

Also - Great crowds all over downtown last night. All the NASCAR fans, all the restaurants and outdoor seating areas were full; tennis at the Tennis center; a baseball game at Victory Field, lots of people enjoying the canal, WRSP, Mass Ave, and Fountain Square. Beautiful night.

Yeah it's amazing how tiny it does look in that one shot....... Last night at the ballpark it is beginning to look pretty sweet though.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/538/july200907252009394.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Great shot, its gonna look great!

Yes, the tower is very imposing when you are DT, but from that angle a mile to the north, it looked small.

And I went to the Indians game on Saturday night. It was a great atmosphere. I am going to have to go back again.

Man, that is a GREAT perspective from the ball field. Really puts it in perspective how much of an impact it has to people on that side of town

the massive walls of EIFS make me cringe. You guys were right, it looks like they didn't take the street level pedestrian experience into consideration at all.

I saw the wall of EIFS earlier today. It is on the west side of the part of the complex where the ball room facilities are located. Right now, the way that area is set up, it looks like there is a large open space in front of that west facing wall. I can't believe on that valuable piece of property they would leave a large open space -- especially in front of an ugly EIFS wall. I think there must be something planned to sit in front of that EIFS wall -- and hopefully its at least three stories tall so it will block out most of the wall behind it. I don't know what might be planned to go there --- and I couldn't find a site plan to look at to try to figure it out. Hopefully I'm right - that something is going to go right there on the site plan. Maybe a restaurant and plaza - set up at the second floor level -- with the plaza in front and an open skybridge across Washington Street that would go directly into White River State Park. That would be great -- and would fit ideally into that spot.

From what I heard that location is going to have a "sculpture park". This should be interesting. Let's just hope they have a pedestrian bridge that goes to WRSP.

I can't believe on that valuable piece of property they would leave a large open space.

Believe it. There may be a sculpture park, but there's going to be a big generic beige wall of EIFS behind it and a drop-off lane to boot.

The west side of this project has really thumbed it nose architecturally at White River State Park, which is a huge mistake on behalf of the city and our leaders, IMHO.

The view looking out of the park, into the city is just as important as looking into the park. People in the park on the canal are going to get an eyeful of generic beige EIFS and a blue-glass tower looming above it. (As nice as the tower is, it can't really make up for the mess on the west side.) The view of the JW is striking on on the east side, but the west facade is just shaping up to be horrible. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I can't believe anyone thinks blue glass and that much beige EIFS looks good together. Yikes.

There's a small glimmer of hope, though: In the rendering below, there's a difference in pattern on the west side and southside. Perhaps they're using EIFS on one side to save money and will use something more tasteful and less cheap-looking on the facade facing Victory Field.

Check the Hi-Res Image (http://jwindy.com/jwi/images/hires/JWMarriottIndinapolisSouthwestView.jpg) for a closer look. :-)

http://jwindy.com/jwi/images/gallery/JWMarriottIndinapolisSouthwestView.jpg

http://jwindy.com/jwi/images/gallery/SitePlan.jpg

Thanks for the site plan. In my post above, I was just hoping something would fit in front of that EIFS wall. Unfortunately from the site plan, it looks like you are right and that it is only the truck loading area and a ground level sculpture garden. I'll look again to see exactly where that EIFS wall fits into the site plan. It would be nice if something could block that view from WRSP - but it isn't looking likely now. It amazes me that over $450 million would be spent on this project and it would still be left with an ugly, blank EIFS wall that will be prominently facing the view from WRSP.

Thanks for the site plan. In my post above, I was just hoping something would fit in front of that EIFS wall. Unfortunately from the site plan, it looks like you are right and that it is only the truck loading area and a ground level sculpture garden. I'll look again to see exactly where that EIFS wall fits into the site plan. It would be nice if something could block that view from WRSP - but it isn't looking likely now. It amazes me that over $450 million would be spent on this project and it would still be left with an ugly, blank EIFS wall that will be prominently facing the view from WRSP.

I guess it's just too many cooks in the kitchen, no aesthetic/architecturally-minded leadership, and as SMSC1's pointed out, the developer's main objective is building the most cost-effective, lucrative hotel possible, not complementing the city.

It's a shame. Hopefully one day we'll have more leaders that understand that aesthetics and urban planning are important.

I keep reminding myself to be thankful, because it could have been much, much worse. The tower's going to be great and this complex is going to pump a lot of money and people into downtown, Lord willing.

just dropping by,

look on the north end of the site, in the drop off north of the fairfield inn.

what is that 'road/drive/sidewalk' that disappears and goes across the street as a dashed line?

just dropping by,

look on the north end of the site, in the drop off north of the fairfield inn.

what is that 'road/drive/sidewalk' that disappears and goes across the street as a dashed line?

That is a potential pedestrian bridge. I can't remember if it's still in play or not. A friend of mine worked on the landscape architecture for the project and said there were difficulties with land usage regarding ADA requirements and angles of approach. It curved too sharply or it rose too quickly, something to that effect. He blamed it on the developers hiring designers to plan the grounds after the buildings were designed, instead of in tandem with the architects.

I'll see if he knows anything new about it. SMSC1 might know as well.

I believe there was a substantial budget for it at one time, that it was to be a centerpiece type of structure.

^^

My friend says it was scrapped because of cost. They couldn't figure out a way to get it built anywhere near their budget.

Can't they at least add a nice fountain to the middle of the sculpture park? I think it would be a nice touch, especially for people coming into the city on Washington Street.

^^

My friend says it was scrapped because of cost. They couldn't figure out a way to get it built anywhere near their budget.
REALLY?! That's too bad. And kind of hard to believe when the total budget is half a billion dollars!

I think there must be something planned to sit in front of that EIFS wall -- and hopefully its at least three stories tall so it will block out most of the wall behind it.

Check out this earlier rendering, it shows a beautiful loading dock next to the park. It's also visible in that site plan, so something similar will probably show up soon. Didn't anyone from the city have the sense to say, "hey we probably shouldn't put a huge loading dock directly across from the White River State Park?"

Sheesh. Is anyone using their eyes, or is it all about dollar signs and statistics?

http://jwindy.com/jwi/images/hires/JW_Indy_Aerial.jpg

REALLY?! That's too bad. And kind of hard to believe when the total budget is half a billion dollars!

EIFS is expensive.

EIFS is expensive.
:hilarious

I serendipitously had lunch with my friend who worked on the project. We drove by the project and he said what I'm calling EIFS might actually be a pre-cast concrete panel.

He also said the original plans called for a type of large brick when he was working on it. He said if they don't end up using the brick, the economy and deadlines are to blame, as the concrete panels are used primarily in tight situations, similar to the large pre-laid brick panels used on Lucas Oil Stadium.

Maybe SMSC1 can fill us in?

Well - maybe I'm the eternal optimist on this. I went and looked at the JWMarriott again last night. As the sky was getting dark, and with lights on inside the building (construction lighting), I could see the light shining through in between the panels of "EIFS or whatever". The comment above about the current panels being concrete pieces that would later be covered up with some other material made sense. It looked like the current panels that we are calling EIFS may just be solid pieces that will later be used to support a wall of brick or stone veneer or something. That would be much better. Lets hope that is the situation. From the renderings - that western wall does look more like some type of stone veneer --- maybe something that is kind of a cross between the stone exterior of the Eiteljorg and the limestone blocks that form the facade of much of the State Museum. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

ditto

ditto

Double ditto. :cheers:

The JW picture is very imposing. About half done on the height? Beats having that first rendition there, that concrete thing!

My friend says it was scrapped because of cost. They couldn't figure out a way to get it built anywhere near their budget.

that's sad.. a bridge between the two would have been nice. in essence extending the distance west you could have walked without crossing at street level. but oh well, thats the way the eifs/pre-cast concrete crumbles.

You know... As much as I hate the pre-cast EIFS, the way the project doesn't engage the streets that well and some of the planning errors... We should be thankful.

Thankful that we are getting a prestige 1600 hotel room development built in the city during the worst recession in over 25 years. We should be thankful that we have a 500M public-private project being built in our fair mid-sized city. Let's not be modest, by the time this project is complete (hopefully around the time the recession is over) Indianapolis will be one of the best positioned cities of its size.

We will have a brand new expanded convention center, new football field, new restaurants and other amenities in addition to this. So instead of bitching about some of the frustrating yet superfluous design elememts. We should be happy with what we're getting built.

Shit, many cities would be thankful to have the "fugly" building in this development get built. Let alone the JW and ballroom addition. So perhaps I'm a glass half full fool? Or maybe we all just need to wake up and smell the success that this will help bring to Indy.

-steps off soap box-

While I do not doubt this hotel development will bring Indianapolis success.. I believe it is that type of mindset that you have that similates with the people of our city to get away with approving these mediocre structures. When are we going to stop accepting "okay" projects just because something is getting built? I'm more than ready to see our city take bigger risks on its architecture.

Other than that, the new jw tower is beautiful, the EIFS boxes surrounding it, not so much.

Its not that I accept mediocrity. If you read my entire post you'd see I don't. Its just that we need to be thankful we're getting this built. Indianapolis is still establishing itself and once we do that I think it would be more appropiate to push the envelope architecturally.

In fact I look forward to the day 20 years from now when I am hopefully developing real estate in Indy. And believe you me, I want to build sexy and sustainable structures!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/IMG_0460.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/IMG_0462.jpg

p.s..I go to the Eagles Nest restaurant like once a week just to relax and look at the city, I would recommend it..(its not really that expensive, just go for a coffee or a dessert and request their lounge area).. The JW hotel rises over the Marriott about two floors, I am sorry I forgot my I-phone that day, but next time I will remember it. You can also see a lot of the progress with the convention center as well. I was driving back home today on I-65-S and you can look back and see JW rising in the skyline, I will try to get a picture on my way back through actually facing the skyline ha...

Yeah, I like the big block of blue that is rising into the skyline. Its definitely a nice contrast to the general similarity that exists in much of the rest of downtown Indy. Its a good thing. A few more bold, modern shapes fitting in in the future would be good as well.

The ballroom area is massive. Too bad it will be a huge wall of nothingness. The tower is really shaping up and is looking nice. The frontage along West Street is also huge, but I am anxious to see this completed.

Too bad it will be a huge wall of nothingness.

Whatever happened to human scale? sigh

This tower looks pretty massive from the top of Crown Hill as well.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/IMG_0460.jpg

As far as I'm concerned, hat picture could have been taken in Vegas. This is going to be a cool addition to the skyline for sure.

What's interesting is that the national hotel industry is worse now than it's been in a long time. However just like Indy, Madison is also seeing a boom in downtown hotels.

Shot from July 4 ----------> http://www.captureindy.com/photo/247230

Shot from July 4 ----------> http://www.captureindy.com/photo/247230

Great photo.

That photo actually makes the complex off hotels look cool

That photo is fantastic

Make sure yall sign up and vote for my photos if you like them. Thanks.

I shot these tonight with my #2 camera, a little Olympus point and shoot as opposed to my #1 which is an Nikon D60.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7936/victoryfield81009010.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8554/victoryfield81009004.jpg

Can someone provide an update to the current height of the project. Is everything still on schedule?

^^

Those look great. :-)

Why can't that wall along Maryland be all glass and have retail along the bottom? Argh.

Time to clean the cam again...

wow, this tower has really added to the view at Victory Field

Any predictions on how long it will take for the grass on the other side of the government parking garage to be filled in with a mid-rise building? A solidly designed building would really spice up the view at victory field! It is directly across the street from the JW to the East and would provide excellent apartments and entertainment options, IMO it became the most desirbale parcel in the city...

A mixed use building on that parcel would be the best in my opinion. Say a 15-20 story building that has state offices, apartments, condos and retail space on the first floor. :cheers:

it would make for one helluva nice block long first and second floor with balconies retail space!

Look how much that corner of DT has changed since '97.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7769/scan0001fyn.jpg

....and 40 years ago..:rofl:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3912/1969b.jpg

^^ You know, if we had kept the height limits we could have had a really interesting skyline, the problem was once we built a few it just looked strange.
About 1900 downtown was pretty well done, but between 1950 and 1990 it just looked strange.
I do like our skyline now. :)
I am so happy to see the sort of life this structure is bringing to that area.

What's crazy is that it appears they are on the 22nd or 23rd floor now. Meaning, they have at least another 10 floors or so to go. Boy, this thing will be quite the "blue monster" on the westside of DT when it's done.

PS does anybody know why the glass looks green when it's lit up at night?

Maybe the construction lighting is yellowish in color -- so yellow light through blue glass looks green??? Seems like it makes sense.

Interesting obsevation on the glass. Had not noticed that. Floors 1-3 have white temp lights, but 4 up has stringers of compact florescents in yellow plastic cages and it does make quite a yellow light. Might be the deal.

South elevation is framing in now with stud back up, brick should start in a few weeks. Center of the south elev and the sw corner wrap around is still blue glass. Sorry about the truck dock view. ;)

There will be a canopy and some screen walls to break it up at the lower sight lines (traffic and pedestrian views) but from afar it is still a big wall of mechanical rooms. Had to go somewhere, and even a billionaire has a budget.
Just pray for a robust turnaround so they put up the "future expansion tower" that the structure is designed for. The west elev is where that goes. Hopefully in our lifetimes!

Interesting obsevation on the glass. Had not noticed that. Floors 1-3 have white temp lights, but 4 up has stringers of compact florescents in yellow plastic cages and it does make quite a yellow light. Might be the deal.

South elevation is framing in now with stud back up, brick should start in a few weeks. Center of the south elev and the sw corner wrap around is still blue glass. Sorry about the truck dock view. ;)

There will be a canopy and some screen walls to break it up at the lower sight lines (traffic and pedestrian views) but from afar it is still a big wall of mechanical rooms. Had to go somewhere, and even a billionaire has a budget.
Just pray for a robust turnaround so they put up the "future expansion tower" that the structure is designed for. The west elev is where that goes. Hopefully in our lifetimes!

They're using brick? Not some cheap EIFS crap. I guess that's a plus. :)

I was by the canal waterfall / landing area by the river in WRSP earlier today. From there, looking back toward the Marriott Place complex, the EIFS wall is not too obnoxious. That part of the building is about four stories tall. You can't see the bottom two floors - because of the trees on the eastern edge of WRSP (which will only continue to get taller over the next several years / decades). You can see about two floors of the EIFS wall sticking up above the trees - but with the huge expanse of the remaining parts of the buildings surrounding it - the white EIFS wall is pretty small. Also - there is a part of the wall that has two large window openings in it. Hopefully those will be blue glass that will attract more attention, and take away people's attention from the white wall. There is an additional section of glass running to the southern edge of that wall as well --- so again, additional color and interest to take additional attention away from the white EIFS section of the wall that is visible. All in all -- it probably won't be as bad as we all initially thought. Its a pretty small part of the whole huge complex. Its nice also to know that eventually, there could be another building going up on that western edge of the complex.

Also -- it is interesting to know that there will be brick going up on that southern wall ---overlooking Victory Field. In all of the renderings I had seen, it looked more like a wall made up of a bunch of slabs of limestone veneer. I think brick sounds like a better idea for the wall by the baseball stadium. The south side of downtown has a good amount of brick in it already - so it should fit in pretty well. (I do hope there is some type of glass - door openings / windows / street presence along the first floor level alongside Maryland St though.) It's too bad that ugly wall of striped EIFS on the upper portion of the west end of the convention center is still sitting there though. That would be a good wall to cover up with brick.

Look how much that corner of DT has changed since '97.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7769/scan0001fyn.jpg



WOW.

holy shit. the jw marriott website is so legit now! has virtual tours and everything. checkkk it out! www.jwindy.com

holy shit. the jw marriott website is so legit now! has virtual tours and everything. checkkk it out! www.jwindy.com

Speaking of "legit" MC Hammer played the Indiana State Fair last night. He was 2 legit 2 quit.

holy shit. the jw marriott website is so legit now! has virtual tours and everything. checkkk it out! www.jwindy.com

http://www.jwindy.com/Virtual-Tour-45.html

3rd video: That sculpture plaza is going to help. I wonder if that's a placeholder sculpture or the actual piece?

Speaking of "legit" MC Hammer played the Indiana State Fair last night. He was 2 legit 2 quit.

Good grief. Dignity has gone out ther door apparently...

http://www.jwindy.com/Virtual-Tour-45.html

3rd video: That sculpture plaza is going to help. I wonder if that's a placeholder sculpture or the actual piece?

I think there is still a HUGE missed opportunity to put a green roof / public park on the ballroom portion of this complex. :ohno:

Sure, the plaza is sweet and all but... Why couldn't they have used the money for that one red sculpture and built a pedestrian bridge to WRSP instead? Seems superfluous to me. :bash:

^^
I agree.


That sculpture is ridiculous.
A pedestrian bridge would be more beneficial.
Then again, I'm sure the developers are more interested in the hotels image than its over all benefit to downtown.
Just listen to the pretentious crap music on the virtual tour. :lol:

Sure, the plaza is sweet and all but... Why couldn't they have used the money for that one red sculpture and built a pedestrian bridge to WRSP instead? Seems superfluous to me. :bash:


Keep in mind, the Cultural Trail will eventually run along Washington St. to WRSP (http://www.indyculturaltrail.org/assets/documents/ICTStreetMap.pdf), which i assume will include the typical curb bump outs at the corners of Washington and West Streets. This should provide decent pedestrian access to the park from the hotel complex

New aerial photos have been posted on the project website...

http://www.huntjwindy.com/photo_gallery.php?gallery=08_2009&type=aerial

Topping of JW Marriott set for December
Star report
Posted: August 25, 2009

Construction of the JW Marriott has reached the 25th floor, with topping out of the 34-story hotel set to happen in December, barring work interruptions.

The curved, blue glass-sheathed tower will open to guests in early 2011, becoming the city's largest hotel.
Advertisement

The 1,626-room, $425-million complex includes three smaller hotels, which are further along in construction and will open in February and March of next year, says codevelopers White Lodging of Merrillville and REI Real Estate Services of Carmel.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20090825&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=908250380&Ref=AR&MaxW=320

Amazing, over a year from topping-out to opening. Lots of work to pimp out the interior of a huge luxury hotel, I suppose.

Amazing, over a year from topping-out to opening. Lots of work to pimp out the interior of a huge luxury hotel, I suppose.

Yes, that does seem like an inordinate amount of time doesn't it?

What are they doing, paving the floors with gold and installing doorknobs made of diamonds?

that does seem like an inordinate amount of time doesn't it?

Four words: One Indiana Square Reclad.

Stills of the Art Plaza

http://www.jwindy.com/images/cache/e207f7380a3bbe1b25736ef70959a282.jpg

http://www.jwindy.com/images/cache/94141ba37a46085c9def3a2954c4042a.jpg

http://www.jwindy.com/images/cache/2cf88ee99a045d63d02ab3e208a5fc86.jpg

http://www.jwindy.com/images/cache/46db0eda5c55a470810f0225a02d4a4c.jpg

http://www.jwindy.com/images/cache/3c6a647aa251446a4ca89db7af926f5f.jpg

^^^^

One word....UGLY, what terrible design behind such a nice building. The art plaza or whatever they are referring to is very lackluster. Why on earth are the buildings so close, yet not connected? The JW was very well thought out, however the remaining buildings in the complex look like a complete afterthought. What a shame.

This thing is really ugly. Indystar has an article (http://www.indystar.com/article/20090827/BUSINESS/90827042/Downtown+JW+Marriott+complex+features+state+bird++60-foot+waterwall) about the art plaza, where they mention it has a 60 foot waterfall.

Okay, am I missing something? Where the hell is a 60 foot waterfall going?

EDIT: My bad, Indystar said a waterWALL, not waterFALL. Crap. Waterfall would have been cooler. It might have actually made you forget this is really just a concrete island in the middle of the Fairfield Inn drop-off drive.

http://www.jwindy.com/images/cache/94141ba37a46085c9def3a2954c4042a.jpg

I would be happier if nothing at all was built behind the JW. I feel sorry for the people who get expensive rooms in the JW and have to look out straight at that thing.

To DDeichma: The buildings are connected.

To Aramano: Sure, you might be happier if there was nothing but grass to the west of the JW Marriott, but you're not paying for this project and needing to make a profit by selling hotel room nights to customers. The city of Indianapolis gains over 600 hotel rooms by having these three hotels built on this space. If those additional 600 rooms are filled 50% of the time, it means 300 rooms X 365 days = 109,500 room nights of visitors staying in our city. Spending an average of $300 per day - that means these 600 rooms are bringing in $32,850,000 in new spending to our downtown. That amount brings in $2.5 - $3 million in taxes per year - with the 16% hotel room tax rate and 7% tax on food and beverages.

In other words -- these hotel rooms are good for our city. Yes, they're not architecturally magnificent - in fact they're pretty plain and, yes, I wouldn't disagree with ugly. Still - this Marriott Place complex is quite a unique facility in the world of downtown hotel facilities. It quite unlikely our city could have handled 1600 new rooms that all would have been priced in the $180 - $250 range (or more). With 1000 in that range - and another 600 in a lower range ($100 - $150) - Mr. White likely has a complex that will be able to continually attract a range of visitors and stay fairly full. He couldn't have had a complex with these varying price ranges if he would have made the three smaller hotels all architecturally extravagant. Yes -- I agree something better probably would have been possible - that wouldn't have cost much more. But I think making sure this complex is successful is very important. Previously there were about 330 hotel rooms in this area west of West St. Soon there will be 1,623. That's five times as many people as before. Its a good thing.

I think the little plaza is kind of strange out there near Washington St. I wonder if people from Fridays will be able to get tables out there. It kind of bizarre how in all of the pictures, there are people sitting around those tables -- but there is nothing in terms of food or drinks -- on the tables.

Am I the only one who thinks this plaza looks weird?
1) The sculpture is massive and looks overwhelming, it needs to be smaller.
2) What is it? It’s a piece of curved steel it appears that escaped from a scrap yard.
I understand it is contemporary, but at the same time is this thing really appropriate for a public space?
I mean, we don't exactly have to put the three graces up either, but I've seen some tasteful modern sculptures and this just looks stupid.
3) What is with the little themed facades at the ground level? It looks like a mall.

wow..I think you all are being a little harsh. I think the design is good. Its opposite WRSP and will be a nice transition from that space to the hotel complex, will provide a nice amount of outdoor dining which is a huge business downtown.

As for the hotels, the views from the JW, regardless of what direction you are facing, should be the best views in the City!

I agree with Cory. I actually like the design and I like the, as socrates put it, "scrap yard" steel sculpture. What you see of the sculpture from the ground is only one way to look it. Seen from above, say from an airplane, it takes on a completely different dimension that is hard to envision from the ground. It will certainly add to street level activity in this area and I see that as a positive.

Press Release

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind., August 27, 2009 – Marriott Place Indianapolis, a unique collection of Marriott properties currently under construction in downtown Indianapolis, has unveiled the design for an art-filled central plaza expected to become a landmark and lasting gift to the city.

“From the beginning, we have been driven by a desire to positively impact Indianapolis, not just by developing a unique, world-class property, but also by contributing to the beauty of the city,” said Bruce White, chairman and chief executive officer of White Lodging, the primary developer of Marriott Place Indianapolis. “My father, Dean White, and our entire family are committed to supporting the arts community and celebrating our home state. The Art Plaza is another example of that commitment, and is something that Indiana residents will be able to enjoy just as much as hotel guests.”

The multi-million dollar plaza was designed by Indianapolis landscape architects Claire Bennett Associates. The artworks in the plaza pay tribute to Indiana and were designed by Jeff Laramore of 2nd Globe Studios, which has studios in Indianapolis and Vancouver, British Columbia. The signature piece in the plaza is a nearly 36-foot-tall stylized sculpture of a cardinal, representing the state bird. When viewed from above – as from the windows of the adjacent JW Marriott Indianapolis –the cardinal appears to be perched on tulip tree branch formed by the stonework in the plaza. The tulip tree is Indiana’s state tree.

Another key feature of the plaza is a 60-foot-long waterwall, featuring a multitude of peonies – Indiana’s state flower – depicted in stone behind a cascade of water. The waterwall was also designed by Laramore.

The $450 million Marriott Place Indianapolis is being developed by White Lodging Services and REI Investments, and largely funded by entrepreneur and developer, Dean White. “We wanted to make this project a landmark for Indianapolis, its convention business and our family,” said Bruce White. “We are proud to be Hoosiers, and selected the design for the Art Plaza because of its connection to the state.”

For meeting planners, who are already responding positively to the unparalleled flexibility and amenities offered by Marriott Place Indianapolis, the Art Plaza is just one more reason to consider hosting an event at the new development. “It will be a fantastic venue for outdoor receptions, parties and even performances, with downtown Indianapolis as a backdrop and all within steps of the Indianapolis Convention Center and White River State Park,” said Cory Chambers, director of sales and marketing for Marriott Place Indianapolis.

March, 2010 will mark the scheduled opening the Art Plaza, as well as The Indianapolis Courtyard by Marriott Downtown, Indianapolis Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott Downtown and the Indianapolis SpringHill Suites by Marriott Downtown. The JW Marriott Indianapolis will open in February, 2011. The fifth Marriott Place hotel, the 622-room Indianapolis Marriott Downtown, is already operating.

Yes, that does seem like an inordinate amount of time doesn't it?

What are they doing, paving the floors with gold and installing doorknobs made of diamonds?

Yeah, the diamond door knobs are a long lead item. :)

Actually, a year from top out with 29 floors of guest rooms is pretty agressive. Just one aspect for instance is punch list and room turn over for FF&E. Say 10 days per floor to prepare an architectual and mechanical punch list, distribute it, execute the work, verify compliance, turn the floor over to White to set up furnishings, then have the contractors follow to put in the cooridor finishes. That cycle alone will take 58 weeks from start to finish for 29 floors of rooms.

On the bright side, the first of the guest floors is starting to take shape. Temporary roofing was installed on levels 9 and 15 in order to start dry interior finishes below while the concrete and glass advances:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/SMSC1/marriottqueenroom.jpg

Cool Star Photo from Wed:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/SMSC1/jwmarriottstarphotoaug26.jpg

they can sure tighten those beds up though... lol i hope those aren't showrooms.. lord.. what a wrinkled mess...

I was kidding about the amount of time from topping out to opening. This is a great project and I hope to be able to stay there in the future.:)

Took this from the drivers seat of my jeep leaving school last night. Headed south on West Street at the Washington St stoplight. its getting LARGE!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3548/3880668231_c0fb550030.jpg

Also, I thought I would point out, that I was on the southside visiting some friends last night and headed back up 65, you can see it poking its head above the trees now. At night, its lit up like a candle with all the construction. Our town really DOES look good despite what some people from other towns might say. ;)

Looking out from the top floor at Central Library, this thing will have a huge impact on the western skyline as it rises. I think the best angles will tend to be from the south and west, especially from White River State Park.

http://www.huntjwindy.com/bid_package.php

Scroll to the bottom of the bid packages... What do you see? Pedestrian bridge!

Hopefully, this isn't for the skywalk to the parking garage across the street. I hope it's for a pedestrian bridge to WRSP! Maybe SMSC1 can fill us in?

:cheers:

http://www.huntjwindy.com/bid_package.php

Scroll to the bottom of the bid packages... What do you see? Pedestrian bridge!

Hopefully, this isn't for the skywalk to the parking garage across the street. I hope it's for a pedestrian bridge to WRSP! Maybe SMSC1 can fill us in?

:cheers:


I think it's safe to assume the pedestrian bridge refers to the skywalk connecting the hotel complex to the convention center. I disagree that a pedestian bridge to WRSP would be a positive thing.

Taking people off the streets is a detriment to urban vitality. One common complaint i hear from a lot of people that visit downtown Indianapolis is that it has great infrastructure, but it seems empty and lacks energy (except during large conventions). This is due, in part, to the skywalk system that pulls people off the streets.

I think it's safe to assume the pedestrian bridge refers to the skywalk connecting the hotel complex to the convention center. I disagree that a pedestian bridge to WRSP would be a positive thing.

Taking people off the streets is a detriment to urban vitality. One common complaint i hear from a lot of people that visit downtown Indianapolis is that it has great infrastructure, but it seems empty and lacks energy (except during large conventions). This is due, in part, to the skywalk system that pulls people off the streets.

I'm not talking about your typical midwestern skywalk. I'm talking about an open air pedestrian bridge like the BP Bridge in Chicago's Millenium Park. Hopefully, a little better designed than that. ;)

The pedestrian bridge to WRSP has been confirmed to be dropped. The Art Plaza is now located where that bridge would have been.

The pedestrian bridge to WRSP has been confirmed to be dropped. The Art Plaza is now located where that bridge would have been.

Bullshit! :ohno:

Fail.

the indianapolis star's website has a story about pinching pennies when the ICVA needs extra money to promote the development going on, what I found interesting was that they state the jw tower will be 37 stories and not 34. Anyone know if that's true? I would like to believe it but it is the Indianapolis Star afterall...

the indianapolis star's website has a story about pinching pennies when the ICVA needs extra money to promote the development going on, what I found interesting was that they state the jw tower will be 37 stories and not 34. Anyone know if that's true? I would like to believe it but it is the Indianapolis Star afterall...

A general rule of thumb is that an average building story is about 10 feet high, although this can vary greatly (and residential/hotel buildings tend to squeeze more floors into the same height than commercial buildings since residential buildings usually require lower ceiling heights and less space in-between floors for wiring, HVAC, and pipes) . So, I think what the Star is doing is simply dividing the building's height of 373 feet by 10 and suggesting that the building is as tall as an average 37-story hotel building.

In short, no, I don't believe the building plan was suddenly increased by 3 floors--especially since Marriott seems to believe the building is only 34 stories. http://jwindy.com/

The views from this hotel are going to be pretty impressive I think. Should provide some new interesting angles of the skyline. The shot out of the one room a few posts up is getting me excited that this hotel is going to be a new standard for Indianapolis.

The views of this thing on West Washington and on I-70 eastbound on the southside are pretty amazing. Does anyone know how many floors there are left? Will it get much taller than it already is? Are they almost finished with the structure and have glass to go, or will the elevator shaft and floors go higher? It is hard to count the floors on this building because of the glass. I am excited though - this building truly does transform downtown. Downtown looks so much larger. :banana:

I believe they are about on the 28th floor - so there are about six to go (as of 9/8/09).

A good friend of mine is part of the crew running the miles of electrical. At present he stated 9 more floors yet to be constructed- topping out of course by December. He also stated that his team has been pressed to get the first 5 or so hotel floors complete asap in order to begin alowing guests to rent the rooms early next year while they finish.

One last note- he said the view is intense midway up.

A good friend of mine is part of the crew running the miles of electrical. At present he stated 9 more floors yet to be constructed- topping out of course by December. He also stated that his team has been pressed to get the first 5 or so hotel floors complete asap in order to begin alowing guests to rent the rooms early next year while they finish.

One last note- he said the view is intense midway up.

Especially since Garfield Park mentioned it only being on the 28th story. 28+9=37! :cheers:

A good friend of mine is part of the crew running the miles of electrical. At present he stated 9 more floors yet to be constructed- topping out of course by December. He also stated that his team has been pressed to get the first 5 or so hotel floors complete asap in order to begin alowing guests to rent the rooms early next year while they finish.

One last note- he said the view is intense midway up.

There will be no JW rooms rented early next year. The select service brands will all open then, along with 1/2 of the JW underground parking to facilitate these guests, but the JW will not open in any partial occupany mode.

SMSC1- Thanks as always for the clarification. I must have misunderstood my friend- we were at a rock solid wedding reception, which happened to be open bar BTW.

Thanks again SMSC1

Just to clarify -- my estimate above that they were on the 28th floor was actually just a guesstimate. I haven't stood over there lately and tried to count the floors. Maybe they are actually only on 25 now and have nine more to go. We'll see. Maybe I can get over there soon and do a count -- or someone else can if they are nearby with time to count (preferably not from a moving car).

From the webcam, it looks like they have 4 taller floors at the bottom and 21 above that, so that confirms 25 floors and 9 to go.

Yep, I counted them in person today. They're working on the 25th floor now -- so nine more stories. That's pretty good -- it should have another 85 - 90 feet still to come. I would approximate that right now it is about 3/4ths as tall as it is ultimately going to be.

drove in the mess of traffic today by the tower, i'm assuming they were beginning to install the skywalk to the gov't center parking garage, there were lanes cut off and it looked like they were working with support beams.

Hi. I'm at a conference in Grand Rapids today and tomorrow - staying at the JW Marriott there. It's a nice hotel. Fairly modern. Roughly comparable to the Conrad. If Indy's is this nice, I think we'll like the interior for sure.

If you guys will permit me to throw up here, I took my camera with an extremely wide angle lens all the way around the site last night. I thought you guys would like the perspectives a little so here ya go. A comprehensive look

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/8.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/19.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/21.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/23.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/24.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/27.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/28.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/31.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/32.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/34.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/36.jpg

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/JW/images/56.jpg

Great shots!!:cheers:

Ahhh--look at all that EIFS!! The horror...the madness...it burns my eyes!!

In all seriousness, though, that secondary hotel looks like a suburban hospital along a highway interchange.

I know I'll take some heat from some of the drama queens on here, but I don't terribly mind the "suburban hospital". The building, whatever its made of, adds mass to that project. If it had been built of the same blue glass that everyone finds so nice on the JW, we'd be moaning that it all looked too monotonous. I find the hypocrisy where all the NIMBY conversations are concerned quite humorous....

Do not really care if it adds mass to the project! Too many people just care if something is new and a lot is filled in. Not me, I have seen too many cities in my life, and Indy deserves better than a hospital building. No excuse, and the other one that is rehabbed, no excuse. While I am at it, the Conrad should look so much more than what it is....

I know I'll take some heat from some of the drama queens on here, but I don't terribly mind the "suburban hospital". The building, whatever its made of, adds mass to that project. If it had been built of the same blue glass that everyone finds so nice on the JW, we'd be moaning that it all looked too monotonous. I find the hypocrisy where all the NIMBY conversations are concerned quite humorous....

Um, why are monotonous blue glass and cheap-ass EIFS the only two options? This "well, at least it's something" attitude is the very reason why we can't get better-quality developments in Indy. Our standards consist of things like "it has mass" and similar tautologies.

Do not really care if it adds mass to the project! Too many people just care if something is new and a lot is filled in. Not me, I have seen too many cities in my life, and Indy deserves better than a hospital building. No excuse, and the other one that is rehabbed, no excuse. While I am at it, the Conrad should look so much more than what it is....

Tell me about it, they could have gone all out art-deco like the Circle Tower but no, they were cheap! Now we have a limestone tower with no decorations! It is criminal!
Eh, but it could have been worse; I’ll take limestone over stucco or glass any day.

Hey! I happen to love the limestone outside of the Conrad. It might not have all the bells and whistles but I think it has a much more lasting appeal - it will still look good in 40 years.

BTW thanks for the pics cailes.

sorry, but if i'm gonna stay in indianapolis i will stay at the conrad! this tower is out in the middle of nowhere... you have to walk for blocks to get to the heart of the city. i like the tower, but it should have been built where the rca dome was torn down and not on the edge of civilization.

Hey! I happen to love the limestone outside of the Conrad.

The Conrad is pre-cast concrete, not limestone. I'm sure the technicians here will refer to it as "pre-cast stone", not concrete, but the fact remains that this is not a limestone facade a la the Empire State Building.

That's just one of the many criminal offenses committed by this seriously deficient hotel that dares to brand itself luxury.

The Conrad is pre-cast concrete, not limestone. I'm sure the technicians here will refer to it as "pre-cast stone", not concrete, but the fact remains that this is not a limestone facade a la the Empire State Building.

That's just one of the many criminal offenses committed by this seriously deficient hotel that dares to brand itself luxury.

Evidently, Craig Ferguson and scores of other people who have stayed there think otherwise. ;)

Did they plan on taking out the sport bar now? According to their site http://www.jwindy.com/ I don't see any photos of it. Just the Italian bistro. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. But I do see it on the other site.

Never mind. I found them now. Sorry...

The Conrad is pre-cast concrete, not limestone. I'm sure the technicians here will refer to it as "pre-cast stone", not concrete, but the fact remains that this is not a limestone facade a la the Empire State Building.

That's just one of the many criminal offenses committed by this seriously deficient hotel that dares to brand itself luxury.

Speaking purely of aesthetics, I think the Conrad is the best new hotel the city has; of course, our older hotels present much finer aesthetic beauty.
However, like I said, it could have been much better.

Um, why are monotonous blue glass and cheap-ass EIFS the only two options? This "well, at least it's something" attitude is the very reason why we can't get better-quality developments in Indy. Our standards consist of things like "it has mass" and similar tautologies.

I said I happen to like it. It is obvious that you don't, but don't categorize me as one of those "well, at least it's something" people simply because I disagree with you.

The Conrad is pre-cast concrete, not limestone. I'm sure the technicians here will refer to it as "pre-cast stone", not concrete, but the fact remains that this is not a limestone facade a la the Empire State Building.

That's just one of the many criminal offenses committed by this seriously deficient hotel that dares to brand itself luxury.

I agree with You on this. The hotel is a Conrad! I am surprised that the company agreed to the look, and materials. My ex and I were there in July of 2005, and even though she is a Chicago person, she seemed right on when she said "These people really think they have something here with that building."

The Conrad is pre-cast concrete, not limestone. I'm sure the technicians here will refer to it as "pre-cast stone", not concrete, but the fact remains that this is not a limestone facade a la the Empire State Building.

That's just one of the many criminal offenses committed by this seriously deficient hotel that dares to brand itself luxury.
Asking for limestone is a "name brand" thing that is silly, like you need to buy Windex instead of the store brand glass cleaner in the grocery store. I think the exact content of the material is irrelevant. The only questions are the durability and the look of the material. My uneducated guess is that the durability of pre-cast stone is quite good. As long as that's the case, if someone likes the look (I do), then it doesn't matter what it's made out of. After all, isn't glass just "pre-cast sand"?

If you don't like the look, that's a valid reason to dislike the building material. But don't talk bad about a material just because it isn't limestone.

Hi. I'm at a conference in Grand Rapids today and tomorrow - staying at the JW Marriott there. It's a nice hotel. Fairly modern. Roughly comparable to the Conrad. If Indy's is this nice, I think we'll like the interior for sure.

I don't see the Conrad / GR JW comparison. The interior of the GR JW is more modern, minimalistic Euro looking to me. No crown of chair railings, flat ceilings, etc... Indy Conrad uses much more millwork, and neutral colors rather than the bold reds and purples in Grand Rapids.

That said, how has the service been at the JW?

SMC1, I clicked over to the Indy site. I guess I should not be surprised that Indy elected a much more conservative interior design scheme.

I spent so little time inside the JW, I can't really attest to its service.

I'd say that the Conrad is probably the best hotel in town, but frankly I think the Homewood Suites on Meridian gives it a run for the money. If not for their slow valet parking service, they'd win my #1 vote.

SMC1, I clicked over to the Indy site. I guess I should not be surprised that Indy elected a much more conservative interior design scheme.

I spent so little time inside the JW, I can't really attest to its service.

I don't think the interior of the new JW is much more conservative at all. Sure it's not ultra modern, but it's at least classy and contemporary.

With all said about the JW and the other hotels on the site...What are the good points of them? I do like the glass on the JW. Could the glass be better, look, quality, shape?

I don't think the interior of the new JW is much more conservative at all. Sure it's not ultra modern, but it's at least classy and contemporary.

I’ve never stayed at the Conrad; however, I have been in the lobby.
I don’t know what’s wrong with it, I think it has a pleasant atmosphere, honestly I don’t care for the bold reds and a magical stripe of blue in the wall, and earth tones look nicer to the general population.
What is wrong with conservative design? Just because it isn’t freaky doesn’t mean it isn’t good.
Is it possible something can be beautiful simply because it is aesthetically pleasing?
:)

SMC1, I clicked over to the Indy site. I guess I should not be surprised that Indy elected a much more conservative interior design scheme.

I spent so little time inside the JW, I can't really attest to its service.

Is this in comparison to Grand Rapids? Are you a general comparison about Indy versus Grand Rapids in terms of conservatism? Just curious, because that would fly against everything I've heard about Grand Rapids, which is generally perceived as part of the most conservative region of Michigan.

What did you think about the base jumper jumping off the 21 story Barton Tower yesterday afternoon? Yikes!! Base jumping off a 1000 foot tower is one thing -- but off a 220 foot tower!! From the news story I saw - he may have been slightly hurt. You've got to get that parachute open pretty quickly when you're going to hit the ground in about six or seven seconds! Would have been wild to see though from Mass Avenue! (The first thought I had when I saw the story was that the guy that did it may have been the guy who sent (to skyscrapercity) -the pictures of himself climbing the scaffolding of the Regions Bank Tower back when they were putting up the new glass facade. He was definitely doing some serious climbing around on a bunch of downtown buildings back then. I don't know about jumping off of them with a parachute though. Not saying that guy did this -- but it was just the first thought that came to mind when I started wondering who might have done it. The police are searching for the guy - and I'm guessing they'll find him pretty soon - since they have pictures from the security camera in the lobby. Hope he wasn't hurt badly -- or at all, actually.)

^^ Sorry -- meant to post that on the downtown Indianapolis thread -- doesn't have anything to do with the JWMarriott.

Garfield Park, I have a feeling its probably not that dude. The guy who climbed the regions tower, is the same guy who was busted in North Carolina for building the barrel monster. His website is wiped clean now of photos, and he was released with a slap on the wrist but suffice to say, he would be really dumb for doing ANYTHING that could land him in hot water at this point. haha

Garfield Park, I have a feeling its probably not that dude. The guy who climbed the regions tower, is the same guy who was busted in North Carolina for building the barrel monster. His website is wiped clean now of photos, and he was released with a slap on the wrist but suffice to say, he would be really dumb for doing ANYTHING that could land him in hot water at this point. haha

There was a man who parachuted off the Regions Tower. I want to say it was 98 or 99?

I didnt know about that. But I know for a fact that the guy who climbed the regions tower in the last year and posted pics here, was the same guy who got busted in NC for taking the barrels and recreating a monster out of them. He had all the photos on his website for a while until he got in trouble and they all disappeared.

There was a man who parachuted off the Regions Tower. I want to say it was 98 or 99?

Yes. Back then they didn't lock the roof stairwell door. He jumped off the North side and got away in a Jeep bearing Ohio license plates.

Monster Barrel..
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090616-barrel-monster-hmed-.widec.jpg

Sorry to be off-topic everyone.

The barrel monster was awesome. I wonder how they busted him? That wasn't his first brush with the law, from what I understand.

The pics he gook from the top of the Indiana National building were the best I've ever seen of Indy

Is this in comparison to Grand Rapids? Are you a general comparison about Indy versus Grand Rapids in terms of conservatism? Just curious, because that would fly against everything I've heard about Grand Rapids, which is generally perceived as part of the most conservative region of Michigan.

I'm talking specifically about the JW, but considering their brutalist LEED gold certified art museum, 44 LEED certified buildings and other more modernly done structures like the Cathedral Square that I posted on my blog, I'd say that they are at a minimum more architecturally adventuresome than Indy. That's not to say that they aren't arch-conservative socially, however. I can't comment on that point.

The LEED I understand, but how is brutalist architecture 'adventuresome'?

Placed 30th floor north 1/2 concrete today. Getting close.

Looks like the facade along Maryland is going to be brick.

Placed 30th floor north 1/2 concrete today. Getting close.

I know it's suppose to be 34 floors when finished. I was just wondering if that is 34 floors for occupants and a couple of extra walled floors on top to hide the air condensers and elevator bays (really 36 storys).... or 32 floors with a 2 story wall to hide the machinery?

my big complaint with this project is that it is on the extreme edge of downtown (and that is being generous). why didn't they build it where the rca dome was demolished? if i was staying at a jw i certainly wouldn't want to be out in the middle of nothing. guess the conrad has the luxury hotel market locked up for years to come!

my big complaint with this project is that it is on the extreme edge of downtown (and that is being generous). why didn't they build it where the rca dome was demolished? if i was staying at a jw i certainly wouldn't want to be out in the middle of nothing. guess the conrad has the luxury hotel market locked up for years to come!

The "middle of nothing?" Seriously?

It is in the middle of White River State Park--right next to Victory Field, the Zoo, the Eiteljorg, the State Museum and the Canal (and right near IUPUI, too). Also, you can easily walk right into the heart of downtown to Monument Circle. Or, if you have some sort of mobility issue, then it's just a very quick bus ride or cab ride away.

Normally, I'd say something like, "Well, I guess we just have a difference of opinion about what is 'centrally located.' " But, I'm over it. I just have to come flat out and say I think you are crazy. A nice person, I'm sure, but absolutely crazy.

I agree with you kangaroo1. It seems in a great location to me. It's very close to all the touristy attractions, close to the Cenvention Center and 3 blocks to Circle Center. You are a 5 block walk to Meridian (CENTER OF TOWN). 1 More block north to the Circle. I'm sorry... I'm used to walking all over Chicago.... MILES!. 4 or 5 blocks is NOTHING! And..... I like the way it now extends the skyline west.

that area does indeed have the museums and baseball stadium, but it just feels cold and isolated. the site is basically an island surrounded by high-traffic roads all around it! call me crazy if you like, but i'm just not thrilled with the location.

Things dont change until someone steps outside of the normal. In that light, I see this as positive since it stretches the boundries that most people know. Like everyone else said, its not a far walk from anything. Most cities, and tourist destinations as well, you have to walk a lot. This isnt any different

I know it's suppose to be 34 floors when finished. I was just wondering if that is 34 floors for occupants and a couple of extra walled floors on top to hide the air condensers and elevator bays (really 36 storys).... or 32 floors with a 2 story wall to hide the machinery?
Here are the highlights of the area breakdown:

Lower Levels 1,2,3 are parking. Also admin and housekeeping are on LL1

Level 1= Lobby, bar, restaurant, meeting rooms, Jr Ballroom, kitchen

Level 2= Meeting rooms, pool/fitness, convention center overflow exhibit space, bridge to conv cntr

Level 3= Grand Ballroom.

Level 4 thru 12 Guest rooms

Level 14 thru 33 Guest rooms (note no 13) for a total of 29 floors of guest rooms.

Level 34 Mechanical space

Level 34+, small bump up for one elevator overrun to mechanical space (rest of elevators service guest floors, so overrun is in mechanical floor)

Speaking of elevators, they are grouped in low, and high rise banks, so if you are going to 33, you wont be stopping on the lower guest floors, similar to Bank 1. Excuse me, Chase Tower. They are very fast cars also, 700 ft/min low rise and 1000 ft/min high rise, probably the fastest cars in Indy. Guests waiting for anything can be brutal on a hotel's guest score for a stay, so circulation was studied thoroughly during pre-con.

As usual SMSC1, thanks for your frequent updates on this project. I always look forward to reading them.

Looks like the facade along Maryland is going to be brick.

I drove by it last night. I like the colored brick. Looks like it will tie in well with the Eitlejorg, the Government Parking Facility, the Convention Center and the other Marriott Hotel.