The complex will employ more than 1,000 people when complete.

Construction begins in summer 2008, with grand opening ceremonies scheduled for spring 2011.

Press Release

Indianapolis, Ind. -- White Lodging Services and REI Real Estate Services today announced the design completion for the $425 million JW Marriott Complex in Indianapolis. The dynamic hotel development project will include the city’s largest, full-service convention hotel and a total of 1,568 rooms including: 1,000 rooms in the JW Marriott tower; 250 rooms in the Courtyard by Marriott; 168 rooms in the Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott; and 150 rooms in the SpringHill Suites by Marriott.

The 34-story JW Marriott has a unique, crescent moon shape and includes a glass curtain wall system with thousands of multi-colored glass panels. The JW Marriott tower stands approximately 373-feet tall making it the tallest hotel in Indianapolis and the city’s seventh tallest building.

“White Lodging and REI have worked tirelessly to create a tremendous design that we believe will be a lasting, dynamic addition to the downtown skyline,” said Michael W. Wells, president of REI Real Estate Services, LLC. “Both White Lodging and REI are Indiana companies and we are thrilled to be involved in one of the biggest hotel development projects in the country.”

Architectural renderings showcase the magnificent design of the 373-foot JW Marriott tower which will be located on a ten acre site overlooking the White River State Park at the southwest corner of West and Washington Streets. The JW Marriott features an enormous 45,000 square foot Grand Ballroom and includes 110,000 square feet of meeting and event space.

The economic impact of the massive project is tremendous: generating nearly 500 construction jobs and more than $5 million in sales tax revenue to the State of Indiana during construction alone. Once completed, the JW Marriott Complex will employ more than 1,000 people.

“The JW Marriott Complex will be a major contributor to the future success of downtown Indianapolis,” said Wells. “In addition to the more than 1,000 jobs created at the four hotel properties, this hotel development will create tremendous growth opportunity for Indianapolis’ multi-billion dollar tourism industry.”

The Marriott hotels will serve as an anchor for Indianapolis’ convention and tourism industry which totals more than $3.25 billion a year. In addition, the JW Marriott Complex is a crucial part of the city’s efforts to host the 2012 Super Bowl and future NCAA events. The timeline for the JW Marriott Complex is as follows: construction begins in summer 2008; construction completed in winter 2011; and the grand opening in spring 2011.

The JW Marriott Complex will be developed through the partnership of Whiteco Industries, Incorporated; White Lodging Services Corporation; and REI Real Estate Services, LLC.

About White Lodging

Established in 1985 and headquartered in Merrillville, IN, White Lodging is a fully integrated, owner, developer and manager of premium brand hotels – a recognized leader that consistently delivers superior leading brand hotel experiences and premium returns on investment among mid-to-large scale hotels across the country. Their managed portfolio of 120 hotels in fourteen states, including 10 in greater Indianapolis, encompasses representation of the following Marriott leading brands: Marriott; Residence Inn by Marriott; Courtyard by Marriott; Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott; SpringHill Suites by Marriott; and Renaissance. www.whitelodging.com

About REI

Located in Carmel, IN, since 1995, REI Real Estate Services is a complete real estate services company that owns, builds, develops, leases and manages a portfolio of office, hotel and mixed use developments throughout the United States. REI owns over 1.5 million square feet of office space and operates more than 3 million square feet in the Indianapolis area alone. They have developed such high profile projects in downtown Indianapolis as Emmis Communications Headquarters, Anthem Operations Center and the Marriott Downtown Indianapolis. REI extends well beyond its hometown market with major office, mid-to large-scale hotels, and high-rise residential ownership holdings and developments underway in: Austin, TX; Phoenix, AZ; Louisville, KY; Salt Lake City, UT; Miramar, FL and internationally in Belize.

Source: REI Real Estate Services

http://blog.ibj.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/southwest-titleblockv2.jpg

http://blog.ibj.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/sunset-titleblockv2.jpg

The other Marriott Hotels:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/jwcomplex1.jpg

* * * * *

OLD RENDERINGS:
http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/plines/marriott2_big.jpg

http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/plines/marriott1_big.jpg

The more i realize this can really work wonders for our skyline IF the glass curtain wall is done nicely! AND if the bottom base is made nicer too... :cheers2:

It is a pretty grand hotel in height & stories it seems. Sure, it could've been designed a lot better but still. I believe (or atleast i hope) firmly this turns out really, REALLY good! Green roof INCLUDED. :)

^^ looking at the last photo, it just shows how much the western section of the milesquare needs infill desperatly.
Indiana avenue used to be lined with beautiful victorian and art deco structures, now they are but specks of one here and there up untill about ransom place.
I wonder if the JW marriott will boost development in the western section of downtown and along the whiteriver?

^^ looking at the last photo, it just shows how much the western section of the milesquare needs infill desperatly.
Indiana avenue used to be lined with beautiful victorian and art deco structures, now they are but specks of one here and there up untill about ransom place.
I wonder if the JW marriott will boost development in the western section of downtown and along the whiteriver?

I am in the miniority here, but I like the JW Marriott. Yes, I would have liked a flashier design, but this is so much nicer than the last design that was like the old Blue Cross--- whatever it is now. I like the clear penthouse{I think} at the top and the angles to to ball park. I wonder if anything will commence this year?

I am in the miniority here, but I like the JW Marriott. Yes, I would have liked a flashier design, but this is so much nicer than the last design that was like the old Blue Cross--- whatever it is now. I like the clear penthouse{I think} at the top and the angles to to ball park. I wonder if anything will commence this year?

I think they could have done better, but the color of the glass and color of the stone is very attractive. I also like the small restruant design, and if there is a green roof, this will be an even nicer design, I think that alot of the complaint is that the design doesent fit in well with an area that lacks density, if it was sourounded by more towers, it would look much nicer.

I think they could have done better, but the color of the glass and color of the stone is very attractive. I also like the small restruant design, and if there is a green roof, this will be an even nicer design, I think that alot of the complaint is that the design doesent fit in well with an area that lacks density, if it was sourounded by more towers, it would look much nicer.

I think that they thinned it for 29 floors. Something about height that Indy does not want. Still this is the first 300 footer in years!

I think that they thinned it for 29 floors. Something about height that Indy does not want. Still this is the first 300 footer in years!

true, this will be very interesting and refreshing for the skyline, I hope it spurs more 300 ft development.
I think something that would be very interesting would be a sort of tower bridge over the white river that was like 10 stories of colorful glass and fantastic lighting, aswell as covering some of the concrete bridges with Luke brick and old fashioned streetlamps to give it a sort of London feel.

true, this will be very interesting and refreshing for the skyline, I hope it spurs more 300 ft development.
I think something that would be very interesting would be a sort of tower bridge over the white river that was like 10 stories of colorful glass and fantastic lighting, aswell as covering some of the concrete bridges with Luke brick and old fashioned streetlamps to give it a sort of London feel.

The canal area is something that should be taken advantage of. The west end of town is nice and can be great! This whole downtown can be a work of art in a few years, maybe my wishes are too strong, however that is how I feel. Since about 6-7 years ago the transformation is striking.

I think that they thinned it for 29 floors. Something about height that Indy does not want. Still this is the first 300 footer in years!

But it's (317) feet tall, does that ring any bells? Ah ha, it's Indy's main area code! I dunno if that was intentional but it is pretty sweet it is that peticular height... :cheers2:

And yes i do like the stone/glass look! Indy hasn't got any buildings quite like that come to think of it? Now add the green roof! :cheers:

I would LUST to see some midnight renders of it! :)

I also TRUST this looks much better the not rad Raddison just NW of the circle... :(

I think they could have done better, but the color of the glass and color of the stone is very attractive. I also like the small restruant design, and if there is a green roof, this will be an even nicer design, I think that alot of the complaint is that the design doesent fit in well with an area that lacks density, if it was sourounded by more towers, it would look much nicer.

I have to disagree, the limestone (I'm assuming) and glass is very bland. This is especially obvious from the aerial shot.

Victory Field, The Eiteljorg, and The Indiana State Museum (heck, even the State parking garage across the street) are nice colorful buildings that should have been taken into account when designing this structure. Instead, it seems they gleaned all their architectural inspiration from the loading dock of the Convention Center. It's going to be about as stunning as Chase Tower, and that's not a complement.

The 3 main problems with this building:

1. Poor street level intregration - giant beige wall across from Victory field is a big no-no, and a colossal missed opportunity. Are they consciously trying to keep pedestrians from walking to the canal?

2. Absolutely no reference to context - I'm usually indifferent when it comes to architectural context, as it often stifles creativity and potential. I like strange architectural juxtapositions, but in this case, they definitely missed the boat.

3. Cold, corporate, 80's architecture - This complex is unfriendly, uninspiring, bland, and cold. The proportions are akward, not a beautiful line in sight.

That being said, the restaurant looks like it has potential, and a green roof would definitely help the aerial view. I hope the color palette changes and they improve street level integration.

And yes i do like the stone/glass look! Indy hasn't got any buildings quite like that come to think of it? Now add the green roof! :cheers:

Surely you jest! :-)

At least half the towers downtown are stone and glass. Look at the aerial.

Obviously this building has it's defecits (poor design, bad streetlevel, etc. etc.) but really i firmly believe they may actually update the design some more before the actual product is built! Is this too much to hope for? :ohno:

due to its isolation, yeah, this is going to add to the skyline. However, we have far too many 80-99m buildings and therefore, only bulk is being added.

The design has grown on me, I just don't like how wide this thing is. Had they cut the building in half and then stacked, I think that we all would be much happier.

Looking at the bottom rendering, I'm amazed at how many of the towers in downtown are horizontally accented (and not just the short, squat ones). It's like they want to accentuate how flat Indy already is.

Something about the Victory Field angle is very pleasing to my eye, but that pleasing character is somehow completely missing from the "Indiana Government Center" shot. It seems very severe from that angle.

due to its isolation, yeah, this is going to add to the skyline. However, we have far too many 80-99m buildings and therefore, only bulk is being added.

The design has grown on me, I just don't like how wide this thing is. Had they cut the building in half and then stacked, I think that we all would be much happier.

However, i imagine a 500 footer out there would've looked MUCH more awkward then what they are putting there! :lol:

But yes i also like the "magazine rack" effect they have going on there too... It looks tacky on the surface, but come to think of it, it's rather unique! :nuts:

White River State Park looks kickass in the aerial. Beautifully landscaped.

The 3 main problems with this building:

1. Poor street level intregration - giant beige wall across from Victory field is a big no-no, and a colossal missed opportunity. Are they consciously trying to keep pedestrians from walking to the canal?



ablerock, don't you think the current layout prevents people from walking to the canal? The current hotel that's there is surrounding by a huge parking lot and isn't exactly a conduit between the canal walk and Victory Field.

ablerock, don't you think the current layout prevents people from walking to the canal? The current hotel that's there is surrounding by a huge parking lot and isn't exactly a conduit between the canal walk and Victory Field.

Yes, the current layout is bad. The proposed site plan is far worse.

As aesthetically unpleasing as it is, at least pedestrians have an option available to them now. When the JW is built, giant blank wall(s) and an anemic sidewalk will greet the crowds exiting Victory Field. People will head straight to their cars, because the proposed setup further discourages pedestrian exploration.

This project could have been a phenomenal asset for this area of downtown, contributing to the amenities of White River State Park, if the the City had mandated a mixed-use facility with street-level/restaurants and pedestrian-friendly sidewalks. Instead we get a prominently bad structure that does nothing more than pad the number of hotel rooms in ICC literature.

Look at the intersection of Maryland and West below (right behind centerfield). Notice the huge blank wall on the west end of the ICC, the giant blank wall of the new JW, and the huge State-owned parking garage, which is always a thrill to walk beside.

Red lines represent areas that discourage pedestrian exploration.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/JWunfriendlycrop.jpg

The City is potentially creating the most pedestrian unfriendly intersection in the city. It's especially tragic as one could argue this should be the most pedestrian friendly intersection in the city, as it connects the city core to White River State Park and greets visitors exiting beautiful Victory Field.

The green lines below represent the pedestrian areas that the architects and planners of the JW should have focused on to successfully integrate the JW into the fabric of the city. Come to think of it, I'm not really sure what they focused on, other than making a big box that contains lots of little boxes that people sleep in.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/JWfriendlycrop.jpg

They are supposed to have a restaurant on the north and south side of the West Street side! Besides, what would be killer is if they add a pedestrian bridge from The Vic to White River State Park over Washington & Maryland Streets! If they were to do this they could easily make this entire project and area more pedestrian friendly.

We as forumers need to become more proactive AND involved! Rather than just posting what we dislike, we need to encourage and write to our given leaders! I'm willing to give it a try... if anybody else is? o_O

Great analysis ablerock.

I'm curious about Washington St. by the JW Marriott. Do we have evidence one way or the other about street-level ammenities on the south side of the street (in the JW-M)? Does the city have any long-term plans for the north side of Washington in that stretch? Did they construct that underground garage with the ability to build on top of it? That "big lawn" feel along there seems like a waste of space. Other grassy areas of the park are used for festivals and concerts, but I hardly even see anybody walking across that area, let alone making good use of it.

I think there's an opportunity for that area to be interesting in the future.

Nevermind. I located the site plan and answered my own question. They definitely didn't design the north side of the JW-M complex for pedestrians at all:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/marriott4-1-1.jpg

I still hope something can go in across the street. The NW corner of Washington and West would be a prime restaurant location with the possibility of several thousand people staying across the street.

Wow.
I forgot completely about the surface lot on the north side of this project.
The city dident have any problem with this parking lot?

Nevermind. I located the site plan and answered my own question. They definitely didn't design the north side of the JW-M complex for pedestrians at all:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/marriott4-1-1.jpg

I still hope something can go in across the street. The NW corner of Washington and West would be a prime restaurant location with the possibility of several thousand people staying across the street.

First of all, the lack of any kind of retail along Maryland street, across from the Vic, is just ridiculous. This could a prime spot for a "restaurant row", with bars and restaurants that would certainly benefit from year-round hotel guests and crowds attending Indians games during the summer.

CorrND, as for development on the north side of Washington, I have a feeling that it would never happen. Those lawns, while I never see anyone making good use of them either, lead up to the State Museum and Eiteljorg. I have a feeling neither one of those museums would want their main entrances, which are largely set back, to be further obstructed by any development fronting the street.

I suppose it could be feasible if development were merely one or two stories, yet it would be a tricky task to pull anything off in a well-designed manner. Perhaps if the development was done in cooperation with the Eiteljorg, a new main entrance to the museum could be worked into development fronting Washington st.

Is it possible for ANY of us to find ANY positives in this lousy, lackluster hotel? :ohno: :bash: :ohno:

Is it possible for ANY of us to find ANY positives in this lousy, lackluster hotel? :ohno: :bash: :ohno:

It's better than is what is currently on the site.

Guess we'll have to go to Carmel if we want to experience a pedestrian friendly community.

^^ things will probably get better as more development occures. I mean, look at penn centre! If we could get more highrise development like that, it would simply be orgasmic! :cheer:

^^ things will probably get better as more development occures. I mean, look at penn centre! If we could get more highrise development like that, it would simply be orgasmic! :cheer:

But then we'd probably complain about all the orgasms we keep having and how they're not good enough and how orgasms from 1920 are so much better. :)

^^ true true,
those 80 year old orgasms cant be beat! :lol:

Man if I could just hop on a light/mono rail, i'd go to carmel asll the tiem for the pedestrian experience.

^^ true true,
those 80 year old orgasms cant be beat! :lol:

Ewww! Oh the disgusting images that provoked. X_X

Man if I could just hop on a light/mono rail, i'd go to carmel asll the tiem for the pedestrian experience.

We're the ones WITH the Cultural Trail! Take THAT Carmel! :lol:

Man if I could just hop on a light/mono rail, i'd go to carmel asll the tiem for the pedestrian experience.

Carmels nice, but it doesent have that urban feel I like.
I'd choose Indy over Carmel any day.

Man if I could just hop on a light/mono rail, i'd go to carmel asll the tiem for the pedestrian experience.

BARF!

BARF!

SARCASM! (while a little drunk)

Maybe it was a mixed blessing that the IC hotel was NOT built! For three reasons in peticular. And in no peticular order.....

1) To me, it seems the Penn Centre wouldn't have been as likely if the IC was built! I may be mistaken, but it just seems like the Penn Centre would've most likely been called off...

2) We still have Pan Am Plaza, which means we can still find a more sustainable AND suitable development for that area! As opposed to an over-sized 44 story tower! That would've been pretty fucked...

3) From "The Luke" we wouldn't have been able to see our "striking skyline" if we had the IC blocking our view!

So what do y'all think? Am i right about these things? Is the JW not THAT bad of an idea after all? Should we actually feel blessed the IC was not built?

I never liked the IC, only the fact that it would have been the new second tallest.
I found that it would dwarf unionstation.
It was way too wide, and would have blocked the view like you said, from the luke.

SARCASM! (while a little drunk)

Whew. I was worried. ;-)

I never liked the IC, only the fact that it would have been the new second tallest.
I found that it would dwarf unionstation.
It was way too wide, and would have blocked the view like you said, from the luke.

I don't think she would have blocked the view at all. She would have slid right in and made the view a bit better. :-)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/1398724584_7e9a74f0e0.jpg

It looks like she'd be right under Chase Tower. Probably a bit to the left.

I don't think she would have blocked the view at all. She would have slid right in and made the view a bit better. :-)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/1398724584_7e9a74f0e0.jpg

It looks like she'd be right under Chase Tower. Probably a bit to the left.

Therefore, "she'd" block One Indiana Square, First Indiana & all the other mid rises we have! Pretty much all you would've seen is Market Tower, half of Chase Tower & of course the "waaay-to-wiiide" IC. Lame huh? :nuts:

Therefore, "she'd" block One Indiana Square, First Indiana & all the other mid rises we have! Pretty much all you would've seen is Market Tower, half of Chase Tower & of course the "waaay-to-wiiide" IC. Lame huh? :nuts:

Again, I respectfully disagree. She would have been prominent through The Luke's window, that's for sure, but would not have completely blocked all of the towers you listed. Overlap is not a bad thing, it's what gives a sense of density and scale. I believe you are giving the failed Intercontinental too much mass. Her narrowest facades were north and south, which were very narrow. Her widest sides would've been east and west. She would have appeared very slender from The Luke's angle.

Anyways, that building is way off the radar and never coming back, so cheers to the view we get to keep, IndiexInxIndy, and any improvements to the JW we can get! :cheers:

Does anybody know if the JWub will infact have a green roof? I really, REALLY think they ought to!

Also, on the layout on the top of this page, you can see the eastern side of the JW appears to have a saw-tooth design... Someone stated it earlier but i never saw it in any of the renderings! This seems like it might be rather intriguing?

I'll take that as a nooo. :lol:

Does anybody know if the JWub will infact have a green roof? I really, REALLY think they ought to!

Also, on the layout on the top of this page, you can see the eastern side of the JW appears to have a saw-tooth design... Someone stated it earlier but i never saw it in any of the renderings! This seems like it might be rather intriguing?

They implied they were considering a green roof, but no official word on a final decision. I'm not too hopeful, because that's money the developers would like to keep in their pockets, but it would help the project out. The problem is, it's an improvement none of us would get to enjoy it, unless we forked out the dough for a night at the hotel.

You're right, this image doesn't seem to show the same facade as the one in the rendering you're talking about (below). The sawtooth condos are in the 3 renderings we've seen, but not the one that appears in the site plan along East Street. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

You know what I really hate about these buildings? They are so frigging beige! ARGHHH!

http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/plines/marriott1_big.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/marriott4-1-1.jpg

They implied they were considering a green roof, but no official word on a final decision. I'm not too hopeful, because that's money the developers would like to keep in their pockets, but it would help the project out. The problem is, it's an improvement none of us would get to enjoy it, unless we forked out the dough for a night at the hotel.

You're right, this image doesn't seem to show the same facade as the one in the rendering you're talking about (below). The sawtooth condos are in the 3 renderings we've seen, but not the one that appears in the site plan along East Street. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

You know what I really hate about these buildings? They are so frigging beige! ARGHHH!



Ablerock, I assume you meant West St.?

You know, it wouldn't be terribly out of the question for the city to ask that a greenroof be included since this project is receiving some city backing. What's more, it could perhaps be a public green space. Nonetheless, I hope at least something is done with that monstrosity of a roof.

Ablerock, I assume you meant West St.?

You know, it wouldn't be terribly out of the question for the city to ask that a greenroof be included since this project is receiving some city backing. What's more, it could perhaps be a public green space. Nonetheless, I hope at least something is done with that monstrosity of a roof.
I don't think public green space is really a big need in that area! But on the other hand, it could be a cool vantage point for an Indians game...

It seems that the expense of a green roof that large would easily be offset by cost savings in heating and cooling over the life of the building. It only takes a wee bit of foresight by the developer, which may be too much to ask.

I just want that parking lot filled! Why is there a surface lot in this design??? WHY???

I just want that parking lot filled! Why is there a surface lot in this design??? WHY???

I counted roughly 30 parking spots. For a complex of over 1,500 hotel rooms, this lot is designed as a drop-off/pick-up point for the hotel. As such a large complex, the hotel does need such a feature for people to park briefly, and a city street lane would not suffice for a drop-off/pick up area. It's really a tiny lot compared to others, a necessary one at that. Just be glad it's not another AUL-sized lot.

I counted roughly 30 parking spots. For a complex of over 1,500 hotel rooms, this lot is designed as a drop-off/pick-up point for the hotel. As such a large complex, the hotel does need such a feature for people to park briefly, and a city street lane would not suffice for a drop-off/pick up area. It's really a tiny lot compared to others, a necessary one at that. Just be glad it's not another AUL-sized lot.

Like there are a fair share of trees too... Which is pretty nice?

I counted roughly 30 parking spots. For a complex of over 1,500 hotel rooms, this lot is designed as a drop-off/pick-up point for the hotel. As such a large complex, the hotel does need such a feature for people to park briefly, and a city street lane would not suffice for a drop-off/pick up area. It's really a tiny lot compared to others, a necessary one at that. Just be glad it's not another AUL-sized lot.

True. AUL should construct a few parking garages, it would multiply their amount of parking spaces by alot while taking up less space.

Ablerock, I assume you meant West St.?


DOH! Thanks.

I just moved to Indy yesterday. ;-)

WishTV ran a story on this last night....

http://www.wishtv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1803780&h1=Architects%20Back%20at%20Drawing%20Board%20on%20New%20Downtown%20Hotel&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=177067&LaunchPageAdTag=Homepage&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.wishtv.com/&rnd=95435270

WishTV ran a story on this last night....

http://www.wishtv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1803780&h1=Architects%20Back%20at%20Drawing%20Board%20on%20New%20Downtown%20Hotel&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=177067&LaunchPageAdTag=Homepage&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.wishtv.com/&rnd=95435270
Well, isn't that interesting. As far as I'm concerned, they can leave the rest of damn thing the same as long as they make significant improvement to the street level.

Well, isn't that interesting. As far as I'm concerned, they can leave the rest of damn thing the same as long as they make significant improvement to the street level.

Anything special will come of this? Or is it all hype? OR do you think the JW team actually reads posts about how crappy their project is? AT any rate this is rather interesting news & hopefully something good comes of it!

WishTV ran a story on this last night....

http://www.wishtv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1803780&h1=Architects%20Back%20at%20Drawing%20Board%20on%20New%20Downtown%20Hotel&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=177067&LaunchPageAdTag=Homepage&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.wishtv.com/&rnd=95435270

This is very frustrating!!! Tell me agian why the Pan Am site/HI project wasn't feesible? UGh.


I am pleased to hear that the design still isn't final. Maybe a little taller yet? This thing should be over 400' tall, not just over 300'.

Anything special will come of this? Or is it all hype? OR do you think the JW team actually reads posts about how crappy their project is? AT any rate this is rather interesting news & hopefully something good comes of it!
Honestly, I doubt anything earth-shattering will come of this. It seems strange to me that this delay could really have much to do with design given that the city hired their own architectural liaison. I realize he had no real power, but he must have given his blessing to the redesign in some way. My guess is that this has more to do with dollars-and-cents.

I also think there's not a chance in hell this will be open in any meaningful capacity for the Final Four in 2010. Not that we need it, given that we hosted the Final Four just fine last year without it.

The JWub looks like the Richard Lugar Tower! :bash: :ohno: :bash:

The current design for the JW is about the ugliest monstrocity I've ever seen. Thats just my opinion. Nothing about it, from that picture above off of West Street, says to me "HEY! If you wanna stay at the best most exclusive Indianapolis has to offer, come stay at ME! If that is the best Indy has to offer, shame on Indy. Architectually it looks like a 70's rehab Howard Johnson. Nothing looks modern or "inviting" about it to me.

It also looks as though they aren't even gonna try to make that hotel complex have a uniform look. The exterior of the JW looks off white, or concrete with that peachy colored Courtyard Suites (existing building) smack dab in the middle. At least paint the Courtyard to match the exterior of the JW... or can't the developers afford paint?

I still can't figure out the window treatment. It looks like a giant American flag.

The whole thing disgusts me and seems shady.... lets slap something up quick so we can make a ton of money at taxpayers expense.

Architectually it looks like a 70's rehab Howard Johnson.
Hahahaha! Beautiful.

Coincidentally -- I'm not sure if you meant this or not -- isn't the current Courtyard by Marriott a rehabbed 70's HoJo?

^^ YES! It was a HoJo's.

I suppose if I were a business man, with an expense account, and wanted to stay at a "high end" hotel in Indy, to get a feel of what this city had to offer.... and strictly off of location and architectual looks... I'd look to stay at one of these hotels in this order.

Conrad
Hyatt
Westin
Canterbury
Marriott
Omni
Hilton
Sheridan (on the circle)

dead last: the new JW Marriott... it's FRIGGIN UGLY

I suppose if I were a business man, with an expense account, and wanted to stay at a "high end" hotel in Indy, to get a feel of what this city had to offer.... and strictly off of location and architectual looks... I'd look to stay at one of these hotels in this order.

Conrad
Hyatt
Westin
Canterbury
Marriott
Omni
Hilton
Sheridan (on the circle)

dead last: the new JW Marriott... it's FRIGGIN UGLY

I would most deff. switch those two... Because, in my oppinion The Omni is REALLY nice & the Hyatt is not-so-much. Just my thought tho... :)

The exterior of the Hyatt doesn't bother me. It was fairly hip for it's time and still looks fairly modern. With the remodel of the interior I feel that it will once again be a 1st class property.

I do like how they blended the old with the new on the Omni and I think they did fairly decent job (architectually) on the new. I dont dislike the Omni at all. It's just down the list a bit for me. It comes in before the Hilton.

The Hilton is low on my list, cause I dont like the way they used reddish granite on the new base area including McCormick and Schmidt's and left the facade on the old Blue Cross Building still concrete. It would've looked less "REHAB" had they made the base match the rest of the building... or visa versa made the rest of the building facade match the reddist granite base. It's a hodge podge of design now and doesn't match. It immediately says that this was not originally a hotel building.

It's just a matter of preference with me and I'd rather stay at a Hyatt property over an Omni. Snobbish of me?

WishTV ran a story on this last night....

http://www.wishtv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1803780&h1=Architects%20Back%20at%20Drawing%20Board%20on%20New%20Downtown%20Hotel&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=177067&LaunchPageAdTag=Homepage&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.wishtv.com/&rnd=95435270

I cannot wait to see what, if anything at all, this story was talking about. It was rather vague, as usual. Mayhaps there was more outcry about the 2nd design than we were aware of.

I'm never impressed by Jo Lynn Garing, the woman that's always interviewed as the city's representative for the JW. She just doesn't strike me as all there. I feel like the lead cheerleader from Warren Central is making all the design decisions for downtown sometimes.

Does anyone know her background? Is she just a talking-head? The media always identifies her as "The spokesperson for the agency representing the city."

I cannot wait to see what, if anything at all, this story was talking about. It was rather vague, as usual. Mayhaps there was more outcry about the 2nd design than we were aware of.

I'm never impressed by Jo Lynn Garing, the woman that's always interviewed as the city's representative for the JW. She just doesn't strike me as all there. I feel like the lead cheerleader from Warren Central is making all the design decisions for downtown sometimes.

Does anyone know her background? Is she just a talking-head? The media always identifies her as "The spokesperson for the agency representing the city."

I wonder sometimes why citizens seem to not get something better. I do not know how many bitched when the redsign was instilled, but why isn't more of a public debate over these things done? Any building that gets help from the public. People don't like the scaping, roof, whatever.

I cannot wait to see what, if anything at all, this story was talking about. It was rather vague, as usual. Mayhaps there was more outcry about the 2nd design than we were aware of.

I'm never impressed by Jo Lynn Garing, the woman that's always interviewed as the city's representative for the JW. She just doesn't strike me as all there. I feel like the lead cheerleader from Warren Central is making all the design decisions for downtown sometimes.

Does anyone know her background? Is she just a talking-head? The media always identifies her as "The spokesperson for the agency representing the city."

I've seen her identified as the spokesperson for the Indianapolis Bond Bank and the water company, as well as Peterson's press secretary. She has (http://www.indygov.org/eGov/Mayor/PR/2000/8/20000804a.htm) BAs in English and Journalism.

Also, fingers are crossed for a redesign (especially along West Street).

I just watched the new video finally and I have to be honest I am very excited about the commentary because it sounds like it is a complete redesign!! Did no one else interperet the rhetoric in this manner?

It really is hard to tell much from that news report. But the fact that city and White Lodging haven't signed off on the project yet is promising in the sense that the design we see now isn't necessarily final. How much it will change? who knows.

^^ Woulden't it be something if they hired a different set of architects and the new design was just... breathtaking?
I can dream cant I? :(

I just watched the new video finally and I have to be honest I am very excited about the commentary because it sounds like it is a complete redesign!! Did no one else interperet the rhetoric in this manner?

That's what I picked up. I'm going to email Cory over at IBJ to see if he'll do some digging. Mayhaps he is already. :-)

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=1150

Our public outcry has made a UK blog.

Approval has been given to build what could possibly the blandest and most uninspiring project we have seen for some time.

Set to be built in the American city of Indianapolis, the scheme has already caused a public outcry over how inspid, boring and uninspiring the design is with many residents of the city feeling an opportunity to add a real icon to the cities skyline has been totally missed.

The boxy, eighties style design was chosen after a design competition by a seven member panel led by Mayor Perterson and designed by architects Hellmuth, Obata and Kassabaum and will be developed by White Co.

However, after the public have clearly voiced such negative opinions with the campaign being taken up by the press and turned into a hot political issue locally, it seems a lot of back pedaling could go on with the Mayor stating the plans are not set in stone.

The JW Marriott hotel will be linked via a skywalk to the Convention Centre which is currently being expanded and is due for completion in 2010 hopefully in time for the opening of the NCCA Division 1 Final Four due to take place in march of that year.

The $325 million Complex will include the largest, fully serviced hotel convention centre in the city and will have 110,000 square feet of convention and event space set to include a 45,000 square foot grand ballroom.

Simply put the hotel will be a box with balconies and whilst the interiors will no doubt be luxurious little more can be said for it's all important outer appearance 317 foot tall that takes the phrase "slab-like" to an extreme looking more like something thrown up in sixties. It completely dominates the entire plot with a low-rise podium between the taller elements that fail to even have a green roof, a missed opportunity given the size.

A more inspiring design was previously submitted by the Browning Development led group but cast aside for the Marriott Monstrosity. Sadly the 29 storey, 1,000 room hotel is the only significant new build currently planned for the city, a fact many feel damns its lack of landmark status even more.

Work on the project is hoped by developer's to start at the end of this year with a finish in 2010, however many residents seem to be hoping that work on this particular design doesn't start at all.

JW Marriott Indianapolis

I am SOOOOOO hoping the Mayor's panel and the developers are finally listening to the residents of Indy and actually going back to the drawing board for something a bit more inspiring. But... I DOUBT IT!

I would most deff. switch those two... Because, in my oppinion The Omni is REALLY nice & the Hyatt is not-so-much. Just my thought tho... :)
I stayed at the Hyatt last year for a conference and it somewhat disappointed me. I actually liked the Hilton Garden Inn more than I liked the Hyatt.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=1150

Our public outcry has made a UK blog.



I am SOOOOOO hoping the Mayor's panel and the developers are finally listening to the residents of Indy and actually going back to the drawing board for something a bit more inspiring. But... I DOUBT IT!

I sent this to the mayor, via indygov.org. Who knows if he even reads all the messages he gets. I'm sure some attendant does.

My hope is that, although it may be too late for this project, future projects will be more intelligently considered.

I sent this to the mayor, via indygov.org. Who knows if he even reads all the messages he gets. I'm sure some attendant does.

My hope is that, although it may be too late for this project, future projects will be more intelligently considered.

True, we cant be so quick to just throw buildings up and call it "development."
We need to look at every possibility and try to create something good, that serves its purpose. The JW Marriott could have been a landmark had it been designed more carefully. :ohno:

True, we cant be so quick to just throw buildings up and call it "development."
We need to look at every possibility and try to create something good, that serves its purpose. The JW Marriott could have been a landmark had it been designed more carefully. :ohno:

This plan has been ready for months. What changes now will be made? Is the city getting heat for the lack of inspiration? Maybe if changes will be made, or not, the city will take 2nd and 3rd looks early on. A plan should not be rushed before groundbreaking. Months have went by and something could have been done. Will the opening in 2 years be a screwed up event? Walking around workers and such?

A couple of things about the article... 1st GREAT READ!! 2nd it stated it was the only large project planned currently which is false; too bad they did not mention the others planned and approved. I say this only because it helps with perception of a progressive city to foriegners. 3rd I was dt during the day on the weekend for the first time since I can remember at 3:30 and I could not believe how active it was!! I actually had to wait on people to cross the street before I could turn on a saturday afternoon lol!! :) I say this because where that building is going to end up is going to make an absolutely drastic effect on the area that it surrounds both arial and ground-level. People were walking along west street and Washington Street today and this building is going to put sooo many more people in this area it is critical nay vital that we get a great design and not a boring piece of caca! Because, in the end Indy could use all the perception positives as humanly possible and this tower may just influence some one in Europe in a positive manner about a little American city called Indianapolis...

I'm actually sort of shocked that Indianapolis has international attention.
Sure national I can understand, but international? :)
Yeah, I saw alot of that foot traffic today, Illinois street(where I work) has been more pedestrian filled these past few weeks, damn people blocking my bike! :bleep: lol

A couple of things about the article... 1st GREAT READ!! 2nd it stated it was the only large project planned currently which is false; too bad they did not mention the others planned and approved. I say this only because it helps with perception of a progressive city to foriegners. 3rd I was dt during the day on the weekend for the first time since I can remember at 3:30 and I could not believe how active it was!! I actually had to wait on people to cross the street before I could turn on a saturday afternoon lol!! :) I say this because where that building is going to end up is going to make an absolutely drastic effect on the area that it surrounds both arial and ground-level. People were walking along west street and Washington Street today and this building is going to put sooo many more people in this area it is critical nay vital that we get a great design and not a boring piece of caca! Because, in the end Indy could use all the perception positives as humanly possible and this tower may just influence some one in Europe in a positive manner about a little American city called Indianapolis...

well, in terms of height, unfortunately it is. I don't think Penn Centre is taller. I was told yesterday 295'. 3 Mass, Riley Hospital, etc are all shorter and then the other projects are not actually "sure things."

well, in terms of height, unfortunately it is. I don't think Penn Centre is taller. I was told yesterday 295'. 3 Mass, Riley Hospital, etc are all shorter and then the other projects are not actually "sure things."

Is there something about 300' that developers do not like? Now this thing is 295', last week it was 300' even.

That article posted on the last page was hilarious.

Granted this isn't the best design in the world, it's certainly not the worst. Thing is, you can be sure it'll be at least slightly tweaked before construction begins. For your sake, I'd hope most for a complete overhaul of the lower portion of the building. The taller aspects are actually quite nice, albeit a bit bland. Throw a redesign of the lower portion and a green roof in there and you've got yourself a very nice project.

Another thing... someone had mentioned earlier in this thread that the aerial rendering shows how desperately Indy needs infill between the stadium and the main skyline. I don't really understand why you'd say that because the demand was never there before. If you build a tall building by the stadium, then there's demand... demand that never existed before. In time, the infill will come... but it's not like developers were gonna build a ton of buildings in anticipation of the Marriot.

Look at all that surface lot parking though... holy crap is there potential.

^^ totally, I would like seeing some rowhousing, low-midrise, and highrise development in that area.

Is there something about 300' that developers do not like? Now this thing is 295', last week it was 300' even.

The renderings presented to the IHPC said 300'. +/- 5' doesn't make a difference in my book.

We are seeing infill around the Luke. Dora Hospitality is building two hotels along West Street and then there is the 10 story condo project proposed at South and Meridian.

The renderings presented to the IHPC said 300'. +/- 5' doesn't make a difference in my book.

yeah, sorry for any confusion. I was refwerring to Penn Centre in terms of height, bnot the JW Marriott

I have to disagree with you Cory, I think the other projects planned and approved are just as big! In terms of height you are correct about the "size" of the JW Tower compared to the others on the horizon. I will however disagree in terms of size that the MSA site and Penn Centre and Towerhouse on Meridian and Merrill Street or just as big.

What I meant by size was the overall impact of these projects compared to the JW. Where most of these towers will be going are much more important and "big" than the JW. If and WHEN the Kosene proposal is chosen and built and that tower sells out in a matter of weeks because of the demand that DOES exist in this city for high rise living we will see 2-4 more proposals for residential towers. When Penn Centre is built we will see even more demand to make a statement in the skyline by local developers. If West Merrill is built, we are talking about a 280ft tower in an area that will make the stadium and skyline look like a dense and "real" skyline. When Tower House on Meridian is built people will turn their heads in a 360 degree angle and realize towers can be built outside of dt and people actually want to live in the city outside of dt.... I see all these other projects of being much bigger than a dull ass 300' hotel tower and I think many other projects planned that are huge!!

If West Merrill is built, we are talking about a 280ft tower in an area that will make the stadium and skyline look like a dense and "real" skyline. When Tower House on Meridian is built people will turn their heads in a 360 degree angle and realize towers can be built outside of dt and people actually want to live in the city outside of dt..

Sorry to be pessimistic about these two projects but with the current debacle over sub-prime mortgage lending companies, and the re-adjustment in the real estate market, I somehow think these two projects, as well as the Market Square project are lost. Maybe not the Market Square project cause it's too valuable of a plot of land. But, as Mayor Petersen said a few weeks ago, "We will re-visit the Market Square proposals after the election". That one may go, though delayed several years, but I have lost all faith in Tower House, and really never had any faith other than speculation in the Merrill Street project. I think it was wishful thinking. I will be the 1st to be happy and admit if I am wrong. Right now the only firm projects I feel are on the near future horizon for Indy are the JW Marriott (stictly cause the city wants it so bad no matter how bad of a design it is) and possibly Penn Center. I'm not even convinced Penn Center is a done deal however. I will give you the argument that with the Lucas, south dt Indy will be the next place to build... but I think it's several years down the line before we see anything of any significance. Thus speaks Debbie Downer.

I have to disagree with you Cory, I think the other projects planned and approved are just as big! In terms of height you are correct about the "size" of the JW Tower compared to the others on the horizon. I will however disagree in terms of size that the MSA site and Penn Centre and Towerhouse on Meridian and Merrill Street or just as big.



In terms of actual height, there isn't anything planned that is taller than the JW Marriott.

but I have lost all faith in Tower House, and really never had any faith other than speculation in the Merrill Street project. I think it was wishful thinking. I will be the 1st to be happy and admit if I am wrong.

I, for one, can't wait for Tower House and Merrill Street to go bye-bye. The JW is an architectural travesty and butt-ugly, but those two proposals are super-butt-ugly with a little bit of damn-that-looks-like-shit thrown in for good measure.

Penn Centre and MSA (which will be online in just a few months - just a hunch) will do wonders for perking up downtown.

Maybe we'll get lucky and the JW will come back with a livable design.

This is a comment-and-response from the Property Lines "mayoral debate." They don't cite any source, but it sounds promising:


"19: Sophia Says:
November 7th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

Maybe we can finally get some projects with decent architecture in the city. Is there still time to rid the city of the horrendous JW Marriott? I never heard that an agreement was finalized.

27: indyfan Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 9:11 am

Sofia- The JW Marriott is definitely being built; the design is still under modifications–I’ve seen a recent rendering and I think its something that the “artsy” people will like–much more so than the original design published in IBJ (and elsewhere). I’m not sure when the new design will be published…there were several different options when I looked at it."

^^ That sounds good. That's one setback about these forums though, you can never really tell when someone's just talking out their ass. But hopefully this person actually does know something.

Is Mayor Peterson going to try to get these bonds issued before Dec 31?

Or does this all sit in Ballard's hands now?

Final Design Unveiled For Indy's Largest Hotel
InsideINdianaBusiness.com Report

"Plans have been released for the $425 million JW Marriott Complex in Indianapolis, which will house the city’s largest, full-service convention hotel. The complex will include a total of 1,568 rooms at four Marriott facilities. The project is expected to generate early 500 construction jobs and more than $5 million in sales tax revenue to the State of Indiana.

The complex will employ more than 1,000 people when complete.

Construction begins in summer 2008, with grand opening ceremonies scheduled for spring 2011.

Press Release

Indianapolis, Ind. -- White Lodging Services and REI Real Estate Services today announced the design completion for the $425 million JW Marriott Complex in Indianapolis. The dynamic hotel development project will include the city’s largest, full-service convention hotel and a total of 1,568 rooms including: 1,000 rooms in the JW Marriott tower; 250 rooms in the Courtyard by Marriott; 168 rooms in the Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott; and 150 rooms in the SpringHill Suites by Marriott.

The 34-story JW Marriott has a unique, crescent moon shape and includes a glass curtain wall system with thousands of multi-colored glass panels. The JW Marriott tower stands approximately 373-feet tall making it the tallest hotel in Indianapolis and the city’s seventh tallest building.

“White Lodging and REI have worked tirelessly to create a tremendous design that we believe will be a lasting, dynamic addition to the downtown skyline,” said Michael W. Wells, president of REI Real Estate Services, LLC. “Both White Lodging and REI are Indiana companies and we are thrilled to be involved in one of the biggest hotel development projects in the country.”

Architectural renderings showcase the magnificent design of the 373-foot JW Marriott tower which will be located on a ten acre site overlooking the White River State Park at the southwest corner of West and Washington Streets. The JW Marriott features an enormous 45,000 square foot Grand Ballroom and includes 110,000 square feet of meeting and event space.

The economic impact of the massive project is tremendous: generating nearly 500 construction jobs and more than $5 million in sales tax revenue to the State of Indiana during construction alone. Once completed, the JW Marriott Complex will employ more than 1,000 people.

“The JW Marriott Complex will be a major contributor to the future success of downtown Indianapolis,” said Wells. “In addition to the more than 1,000 jobs created at the four hotel properties, this hotel development will create tremendous growth opportunity for Indianapolis’ multi-billion dollar tourism industry.”

The Marriott hotels will serve as an anchor for Indianapolis’ convention and tourism industry which totals more than $3.25 billion a year. In addition, the JW Marriott Complex is a crucial part of the city’s efforts to host the 2012 Super Bowl and future NCAA events. The timeline for the JW Marriott Complex is as follows: construction begins in summer 2008; construction completed in winter 2011; and the grand opening in spring 2011.

The JW Marriott Complex will be developed through the partnership of Whiteco Industries, Incorporated; White Lodging Services Corporation; and REI Real Estate Services, LLC.

About White Lodging

Established in 1985 and headquartered in Merrillville, IN, White Lodging is a fully integrated, owner, developer and manager of premium brand hotels – a recognized leader that consistently delivers superior leading brand hotel experiences and premium returns on investment among mid-to-large scale hotels across the country. Their managed portfolio of 120 hotels in fourteen states, including 10 in greater Indianapolis, encompasses representation of the following Marriott leading brands: Marriott; Residence Inn by Marriott; Courtyard by Marriott; Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott; SpringHill Suites by Marriott; and Renaissance. www.whitelodging.com

About REI

Located in Carmel, IN, since 1995, REI Real Estate Services is a complete real estate services company that owns, builds, develops, leases and manages a portfolio of office, hotel and mixed use developments throughout the United States. REI owns over 1.5 million square feet of office space and operates more than 3 million square feet in the Indianapolis area alone. They have developed such high profile projects in downtown Indianapolis as Emmis Communications Headquarters, Anthem Operations Center and the Marriott Downtown Indianapolis. REI extends well beyond its hometown market with major office, mid-to large-scale hotels, and high-rise residential ownership holdings and developments underway in: Austin, TX; Phoenix, AZ; Louisville, KY; Salt Lake City, UT; Miramar, FL and internationally in Belize."
Source: REI Real Estate Services
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=26990&ts=true

WOW!!! I really like the new design, much more daring, and taller (34) floors. Still a little hard to see the ground level in the pic, but the overall design of the building (in my opinion) is 100 times better. This will be a great addition to the downtown.

373' tall will make it the City's 7th tallest building, 1 foot taller then the CCB.

373' tall will make it the City's 7th tallest building, 1 foot taller then the CCB.

Well actually that provides a very interesting context & contrast. Two buildings of similar height The JW & CCB anchoring their respective sides (west & east) of downtown! Interesting huh? :)

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bilde-1.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bilde2.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bilde3.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bilde4.jpg

Did I miss something? When did this overhaul take place?

I'm fairly pleased with the new design. I think it will be a much better addition to the city's skyline than the previous versions.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bilde-1.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bilde3.jpg


I'm diggin' the way the tower looks with the Eiteljorg's materials as a base instead of whatever gray stuff they're using.

It might end up being sleek, but right now, the base/pedestal just looks like a big gray box. That's sorta the problem with pedestals in general.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. In the top picture, you can almost make out some vertical lines in the dark gray. Might be interesting.

If it's a solid gray wall, I'm going to throw tomatoes at it as soon as it's done.

I desperately want to see a new render from this perspective!

http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/plines/marriott3_big.jpg

god look at all those horrible parking lots... BLEHH

^^Exactly what i thought. The SimCity player in me desperatly needs some buildings to spring up on those nasty lots.

Is that second, smaller tower from the original design still in the new proposal?

Is that second, smaller tower from the original design still in the new proposal?

It is actually not... Tho, i may be mistaken.

So bizarre how all this hype for this has recently dried up. Must be the holiday season.

I'm just waiting for something to happen. It feels like this has been going on for a couple of years now. I am ready to see some consturction take place.

Spider, construction will begin this summer with a 2011 completion date.

Wow, really like the new version of this building. I wish the same could be said for a new rendering released for a hotel development in Milwaukee (new rendering hurts my head).

Are the other hotels in the complex getting a makeover? I am really jazzed about this new look, finally Indy will have a really nice looking hotel. Another thought, the developer will not buy into the name, correct? Is it maybe, the developer thought they could hand Indy a concrete box? Now they had to spend time and money to give the city what they wanted? Did the city play hardball?

Are the other hotels in the complex getting a makeover? I am really jazzed about this new look, finally Indy will have a really nice looking hotel. Another thought, the developer will not buy into the name, correct? Is it maybe, the developer thought they could hand Indy a concrete box? Now they had to spend time and money to give the city what they wanted? Did the city play hardball?
There may have been some pressure by the city, but I get the impression that this was driven more by Dean White thinking of his legacy.

^^ perhaps this will make developers think twice about their designs?

^^ perhaps this will make developers think twice about their designs?

Wonder what the rest of the JW will look like?

Is anyone else a bit miffed that one of the major reasons the city went with the JW over the more stylish Intercontinental was it was quoted to be built, up and running by the NCAA finals in 2010? Otherwise the city could've gone with the Intercontinental, which still might have made the deadline as well.... even if they had to procure the parking garage below. The JW was suppose to be a sure thing. Now that final four deadline is shot out the door, the city doesnt seem to care that much. I find that very interesting. You think old Bart and Dean got that one pushed through cause they are drinking or business buddies?

Is anyone else a bit miffed that one of the major reasons the city went with the JW over the more stylish Intercontinental was it was quoted to be built, up and running by the NCAA finals in 2010? Otherwise the city could've gone with the Intercontinental, which still might have made the deadline as well.... even if they had to procure the parking garage below. The JW was suppose to be a sure thing. Now that final four deadline is shot out the door, the city doesnt seem to care that much. I find that very interesting. You think old Bart and Dean got that one pushed through cause they are drinking or business buddies?

Ummm...what do you think?

This article is about a new pedestrian bridge over Washington Street that will connect the JW complex to White River State Park. It also mentions a future parking garage to be built for White River State Park.

From Feb. 4-10 IBJ:

Pedestrian bridge to state park still in the works
White River venues think hotel complex will be a boost

By Jennifer Whitson

Developers of the $425 million hotel complex downtown still are working out plans for a pedestrian bridge spanning Washington Street that will connect it to White River State Park.

Merrillville-based White Lodging Co. and Indianapolis-based REI Real Estate Services proposed a connector—either a bridge or an underground tunnel—in early designs of the convention hotel complex at the southwest corner of West and Washington streets.

Although later site plans did not include the link, REI President Mike Wells said the developers still intend to build it.

“We always thought our parcel could be the connector between downtown and White River State Park,” he said.

It’s unclear at this point how much the connector would cost, but Wells said the developers will pay for it. An enclosed walkway across West Street also is planned.

With both connectors in place, the park will be more easily accessible from both the convention center and Circle Centre mall.

Park Executive Director Bob Whitt said West Street has always been a bit of a barrier to people coming to the park.

“[The hotel project] will add a lot of life and vibrancy to the neighborhood and really be a connector psychologically as well as physically to downtown,” he said.

Developers dropped the option of an underground tunnel because the length needed—about a half mile—wouldn’t make for a pleasant walk.

But a preliminary sketch of a bridge version was presented recently to the White River State Park Development Commission. In it, an uncovered pedestrian bridge had a gentle enough incline that it would be wheelchair-accessible without the need for an elevator.

“We want the connector to have some architectural significance, to be artinspired,” Wells said. He would not share the early design with IBJ.

The complex will include a 1,000-room J.W. Marriott hotel, a 168-room Fairfield Inn & Suites and a 150-room SpringHill Suites. The existing Courtyard by Marriott will close after this year’s Indianapolis 500 to be gutted and renovated; it will reopen with the other hotels in spring 2011.

The city is slated to spend $48.5 million on site improvements after signing the final project agreement in August. Then construction will begin.

A connector linking those 1,568 guest rooms with the park could translate into a bump in foot traffic for its attractions, including the Indianapolis Zoo, the Indiana State Museum, the Eiteljorg Museum of American Indians and Western Art, the NCAA Hall of Champions and outdoor amphitheater The Lawn.

Eiteljorg President John Vanausdall is excited about the hotel complex going up across Washington Street.

“To think of all those people looking out their windows right down onto our property, it will be a great boon for the Eiteljorg,” Vanausdall said. And the connector will be a specific “invitation to cross the street.”

Now, the heavy traffic and multiple lanes on Washington and West streets make crossing on foot hazardous, Vanausdall said.

Another attraction executive said that, while the hotels can only be a plus for the area, it remains to be seen whether they will attract more tourists or conventioneers.

“Conventions are quite businesslike anymore,” said state museum Director Barry Dressel. “People’s time to utilize cultural attractions isn’t as large as others frequently think it is.”

Still, a connector could help the hotels, too, allowing them to market themselves as easily walkable to “internationally known attractions,” said Sotiris Avgoustis, chairman of IUPUI’s Tourism Department. “It will be a win-win situation for everyone involved.”

The park and hotels also are working together on parking issues. Late last year, developers agreed to provide an as-yetunspecified number of parking spaces for use by park visitors.

The park has nearly 2,000 parking spaces now and is studying how many spots it needs to accommodate regular demand.

Wells said hotel developers will provide paid spaces open to the public. The 1,000 spaces already planned for the complex won’t count, Whitt said, since guests likely will need most of them. Instead, the park plans to add a parking garage eventually.

One overlooked opportunity in all these comments is that conventions/meetings often seek a "cool" space for an opening reception or a formal dinner. It's about more than just extra foot traffic or visitors: a connector would open up after-hours event access from the Convention Center hotel complex to the Eiteljorg, ISM, and Hall of Champions.

if they build a parking garage I hope it has street level retail, something that side of downtown lacks.

There's plenty of retail inside the museums!

yeah but not at street level!

If they're going to build a parking garage in a state park, it should be underground like the other one they built next to the Eiteljorg and State Museums. I can't think of anything that would mess up the nice green and blu(ish) views of White River State Park then an above ground parking garage. I was just thinking about retail in the area around the JW Marriott the other day. I thought they should convert the first level of the Washington Street State parking garage (the side that runs along Maryland Street - across from the western entrance to the convention center) to commercial uses. You could put a few restaurants and stores there to catch the traffic of people going to and from the convention center as well as to baseball games and WRSP in the summer. And this would be further enhanced by building the pedestrian bridge that could be used by these people heading that way.

Also - there is the open space on the north side of that parking garage that was purposely left empty in case there was a need for additional office or commercial uses there. Likewise, if that ever gets built upon, it should have some nice street level retail too. Yea, the trees and grass are nice there - but it is in the mile square and should be utilized in a way that would add to the urban streetscape there. There would be plenty of room to add some nice street trees and benches along Washington Street once they built a nice mixed use project (hotel, restaurants, office?) on that piece of property.

I like your thinking!

It has deffinatey occured to me that the multi-colored glass of the JW might look dated once the next round of architectural trends inevitably take foot. However i had a stunning realization that has made me a bit fonder of this redesign. It appears there are three general colors in this glass facade - gold, light blue, and dark blue. Then i thought about Indy's skyline and what it will look like in its context. Think about what 2011 will look like in downtown indy's core skyline. The most noticable change will oviously be the completed One Indiana square reclad. I think the glass facade will add to the moderinity of the skyline but further complement the JW and for one specific reason. One Indiana Square's proximity to that bright gold glass building (i am completely unaware of its name) will create - in my opinion - a nice mirroring of the colors the JW is utalizing. Not only do i allready like the contrast allready created by the partially complete reclad with the gold building, but i think a decoupaged reflection of these colors on the west side of downtown will create an interesting addition and perhaps a longer lasting addition to the skyline.

In my opinion, the JW is a wonderful highrise. It will have people looking more than once in passing, it will be sleek looking as well. The tower will compliment the Eitelborg(sp) very well. This will be a great achievement for Indy on the architectural front. In coming years it may not be, however this is a major step for Indy's design and overall looks for a tower.

From Property Lines:

http://propertylines.ibj.com/blogshell.asp?p=722

JW Work to Begin in June
By Cory Schouten

A three-year project to build a new convention headquarters hotel along West Street now is scheduled to begin on June 1, immediately after the Indianapolis 500, said Mike Wells of developer REI Investments, which is working with White Lodging on the project. The first order of business for the $425-million JW Marriott development: Partial demolition of an existing Courtyard by Marriott and closure of a TGI Friday’s restaurant. The development team has sent out bids for the work. Wells said renderings of the hotel’s interior will be available soon. Stay tuned.

From Property Lines:

http://propertylines.ibj.com/blogshell.asp?p=722

JW Work to Begin in June
By Cory Schouten

A three-year project to build a new convention headquarters hotel along West Street now is scheduled to begin on June 1, immediately after the Indianapolis 500, said Mike Wells of developer REI Investments, which is working with White Lodging on the project. The first order of business for the $425-million JW Marriott development: Partial demolition of an existing Courtyard by Marriott and closure of a TGI Friday’s restaurant. The development team has sent out bids for the work. Wells said renderings of the hotel’s interior will be available soon. Stay tuned.

I would like to see close-up renderings of the whole complex. Easements added, parking...

A 1,000-room JW Marriott convention hotel will anchor the $425-million hotel complex planned for the southwest corner of West and Washington streets. But it won’t be the project’s only attraction. A secondary hotel building along Washington Street will be one of the city’s largest hotels in its own right. Plans call for a Courtyard by Marriott with 254 rooms and a SpringHill Suites with 196. This brand-new rendering, from developers White Lodging and REI Investments, shows the view from White River State Park. (The 34-story JW is outlined in gray.) Construction is scheduled to begin this summer for a target opening of March 2010. Plans also call for conversion of the high-rise portion of an existing Courtyard hotel into a Fairfield Inn & Suites.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/jwcomplex1.jpg

http://propertylines.ibj.com/

Needless to say, I am very dissapointed.

well, that's damn ugly! Thank god it won't be visible. It looks like a hospital!

A 1,000-room JW Marriott convention hotel will anchor the $425-million hotel complex planned for the southwest corner of West and Washington streets. But it won’t be the project’s only attraction. A secondary hotel building along Washington Street will be one of the city’s largest hotels in its own right. Plans call for a Courtyard by Marriott with 254 rooms and a SpringHill Suites with 196. This brand-new rendering, from developers White Lodging and REI Investments, shows the view from White River State Park. (The 34-story JW is outlined in gray.) Construction is scheduled to begin this summer for a target opening of March 2010. Plans also call for conversion of the high-rise portion of an existing Courtyard hotel into a Fairfield Inn & Suites.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/jwcomplex1.jpg

http://propertylines.ibj.com/

Needless to say, I am very dissapointed.

I love the JW redesign, and the museum that it will blend in with. This Courtyard however, even with a similar color of the Eiteljorg,looks like a hospital. Is BDMD, involved at all with this? Well at least the JW is nice, and this is good filler I suppose.

That hospital thing looks like Porter Memorial up here in Valpo, maybe they will have a gift shop since Porter did away with theirs. If their is a 3rd building, I know of a beautiful dorm they can copy!

This Courtyard however, ...looks like a hospital.
Maybe like this one:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/radiology_edu/residency/images/VaFront.JPG

(I'll buttout now. Just that I lived near
this VA Hospital for so long I had to post.
No trolling intended.)

Looks like a Hospital? You guys are too kind. That is a horrible looking building. Comparing it to a boring hospital is giving it too much credit. The nicest looking thing in the rendering is the sky, grass and trees. Another bombastic surburban-style overgrown EIFS/Stucco box with punctauted glass panels. Go Indy!

Has anyone here seen a rendering before? If you look closely at the texture, this is more than likely the type of materials used on the Simon Headquarters, and has generous glass, and harmonizes the colors of the Eiteljorg across the street. This is a LOW RATE hotel, and I believe that it is quite nice considering. More interaction with the street level would be appreciated, but it carries the height of the JW farther west, hopefully provoking further dense development to the west.

And looksee, to post that picture of brutalist junk and say that it resembles this building is pathetic. That's like saying any tan building with square windows looks like it.

Not every project can be an award winning piece of architecture. But I'm sure that when put into its materials, it will look understated but handsome. It will also continue the work of filling the skyline.

ok, someone show me a courtyard that is much nicer looking. There aren't many that are really any better. At least not ones that I have seen. Same thing with the Marriott, I think it is relatively rare for Marriott to build it's own building, and that one actually looks pretty good. I may be wrong, but I believe most downtown marriotts are in pre existing buildins, or buildings designed for something else but the developer wanted a hotel in it.

I love the JW Marriott, completely dislike the hospital looking thing. Are the Simon Headquarters materials good? It is limestone I think, I don't like their headquarters design, so the quality of materials has not really been a thought, until you stated the above.

And looksee, to post that picture of brutalist junk and say that it resembles this building is pathetic. That's like saying any tan building with square windows looks like it.

Whatever was I thinking?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/blandisbeautiful.jpg

I would call the Manhattan VA more bland than brutal, but, eye of the beholder and all that.

Really, I'm outta here. I was just peeking in from a surprisingly parallel universe.

"More interaction with the street level would be appreciated, but it carries the height of the JW farther west, hopefully provoking further dense development to the west."

My first impression is that it needs some help - and unfortunately^, it is not going to provoke further dense development to the west because, White River State Park is the only thing to the west for the next half a mile, at least - so there is not going to be any new, especially dense, development to the west of this building. This is going to be the western-most building sitting in this part of downtown for quite a while. It needs to be improved. I definitely agree that it should address the street much more effectively. That little "awning" in front of the entrance needs some help too. I'm not too thrilled with the sign locations either. They need to keep them lower to the ground, perhaps just a couple of ground signs would be best. Without seeing more about how the whole site is laid out, I don't want to say much more. Things I like include the way the one wing (the one sticking out toward the north) has more glass, specially at the top. I think a blue/green glass with a sandy stone color looks good. I wish it didn't have that "X" shape or "L" shape (or whatever shape it is) that doesn't recognize the street and sidewalk at all. I guess the fact that it is overlooking a park with trees and a river may have something to do with this. It isn't like this side of the hotel complex is in the same type of square, urban street grid as the rest of the buildings in the mile square. Perhaps a rounded side that faces to the west would be good. A little more glass, reflecting the green and blue from the trees, grass, sky and river that are across Maryland / Washington Street might be nice. Also - if trying to look for good in this, its good that it is part of an additional 1500+ hotel room complex being added to downtown. Many cities would be happy to get that many new downtown rooms in a decade. Hopefully, with some modifiations, it can be improved enough to look pretty decent. I hope.

Whatever was I thinking?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/blandisbeautiful.jpg

I would call the Manhattan VA more bland than brutal, but, eye of the beholder and all that.

Really, I'm outta here. I was just peeking in from a surprisingly parallel universe.

C'mon Mr. speedblue47, there is a resemblance. Why are you so bent on defending a lackluster building?

When you say "Not every project can be an award winning piece of architecture," you make it sound as if Indianapolis is chock-full of award-winning buildings.

That argument has been the rationale for every mediocre building we've built in the last 50 years. "It does its job. It's just an office tower, it doesn't have to be beautiful. Not every building can be great." et cetera.

I see what you are saying arenn, but I think you miss my point. This is the nearest you will get to a economy hotel in a major project downtown. They have to balance appearance with cost. Now, should we ask the developer if it would be possible, economically, to look at a redesign that is more in the style of the JW? Sure. But comparing this building, which is not inspiring to say the least, to the shoddy, suburban hotel built near Lucas Oil Stadium, or a brutalist government structure from the mid-1900's is just wrong(not to mention that the resemblance is so superficial that you could say that Chase Tower looks like a sky-scraper version of it, and of the federal building on Delaware). You have to admit that there doesn't seem to be a surplus of architectural talent anymore, especially amongst the established firms, so this is actually not bad.

The people here could say that it should be covered in glass like the JW, but they won't be ones paying an additional $30-$50/night to stay there. Maybe that price difference might ruin the Courtyard's competitive advantage and not allow it to be built at all. Remember, this is a first render. Remember the first render of the JW? They'll take the feedback, keep the basic elevation, and work on the particulars.

So, in short, I do not think this building is ideal, but that it is a design and concept that could easily be worked with and made to complement the flagship JW. Feedback is important, but the simplistic criticisms made here don't actually help the discussion and definitely will not help the developer improve the design. I say we move the discussion into that direction. Any takers?

I see what you are saying arenn, but I think you miss my point. This is the nearest you will get to a economy hotel in a major project downtown. They have to balance appearance with cost. Now, should we ask the developer if it would be possible, economically, to look at a redesign that is more in the style of the JW? Sure. But comparing this building, which is not inspiring to say the least, to the shoddy, suburban hotel built near Lucas Oil Stadium, or a brutalist government structure from the mid-1900's is just wrong(not to mention that the resemblance is so superficial that you could say that Chase Tower looks like a sky-scraper version of it, and of the federal building on Delaware). You have to admit that there doesn't seem to be a surplus of architectural talent anymore, especially amongst the established firms, so this is actually not bad.



So, in short, I do not think this building is ideal, but that it is a design and concept that could easily be worked with and made to complement the flagship JW. Feedback is important, but the simplistic criticisms made here don't actually help the discussion and definitely will not help the developer improve the design. I say we move the discussion into that direction. Any takers?

I am not so sure that there is not a surplus of architectural talent. I feel that vision, and materials, and costs are the part of the problem. Maybe the lack of vision part, and remaining status quo, and not insightful is the problem of the"Higher Ups." Hope that a reconsideration will be done, but time is running out, and these changes don't occur overnight. We say things here, however the developer would need to be notified, and do they listen to us sending our emails, or does the a public hearing have to be warrented?

Real architectural talent is not easily restrained by "higher ups" with a lack of vision. If an architect comes up with a draft of a great design that meets all the requirements and meets the budget goals, I don't think the "higher ups" will say "no way, that's too good for us to build. we don't build good projects in Indianapolis." Sure, there could be problems with how projects are put together, like a top down imposition of materials or architectural style. Or maybe it is the "committee" approach that seems to be all too common in projects nowadays. Generally, a single architect calling the shots with several associate designers offering their input would produce a more consistent product than a "tribe of chiefs" all throwing their ideas in a pot and the least costly denominator making it to the plans.

As far as a public hearing goes, I think the government mandating this as necessary is unneeded. These kind of forums are usually only attended by NIMBYs and wannabe architects who want to either a) stop the project all together or b) criticize it for not being in their particular architectural tastes. A company free to use the best avenues for interacting with their target markets and community neighbors would get the most valuable insight. A meeting of the minds amongst architectural types through a "preview" journal may also help bolster standards and allow feedback from peers to improve overall quality. Currently, most criticism from the industry happens after construction is finished, which is largely an intellectual argument with little practical value.

Just my 2 cents.

Real architectural talent is not easily restrained by "higher ups" with a lack of vision. If an architect comes up with a draft of a great design that meets all the requirements and meets the budget goals, I don't think the "higher ups" will say "no way, that's too good for us to build. we don't build good projects in Indianapolis." Sure, there could be problems with how projects are put together, like a top down imposition of materials or architectural style. Or maybe it is the "committee" approach that seems to be all too common in projects nowadays. Generally, a single architect calling the shots with several associate designers offering their input would produce a more consistent product than a "tribe of chiefs" all throwing their ideas in a pot and the least costly denominator making it to the plans.

As far as a public hearing goes, I think the government mandating this as necessary is unneeded. These kind of forums are usually only attended by NIMBYs and wannabe architects who want to either a) stop the project all together or b) criticize it for not being in their particular architectural tastes. A company free to use the best avenues for interacting with their target markets and community neighbors would get the most valuable insight. A meeting of the minds amongst architectural types through a "preview" journal may also help bolster standards and allow feedback from peers to improve overall quality. Currently, most criticism from the industry happens after construction is finished, which is largely an intellectual argument with little practical value.

Just my 2 cents.
So, the public should stay out of it, and take what they give us? How was the JW redesigned? Also, if the public stays of out the sessions and stays way in the background and lets the "visionaries" do what they want, then maybe the city will end up with sev

Real architectural talent is not easily restrained by "higher ups" with a lack of vision. If an architect comes up with a draft of a great design that meets all the requirements and meets the budget goals, I don't think the "higher ups" will say "no way, that's too good for us to build. we don't build good projects in Indianapolis." Sure, there could be problems with how projects are put together, like a top down imposition of materials or architectural style. Or maybe it is the "committee" approach that seems to be all too common in projects nowadays. Generally, a single architect calling the shots with several associate designers offering their input would produce a more consistent product than a "tribe of chiefs" all throwing their ideas in a pot and the least costly denominator making it to the plans.

As far as a public hearing goes, I think the government mandating this as necessary is unneeded. These kind of forums are usually only attended by NIMBYs and wannabe architects who want to either a) stop the project all together or b) criticize it for not being in their particular architectural tastes. A company free to use the best avenues for interacting with their target markets and community neighbors would get the most valuable insight. A meeting of the minds amongst architectural types through a "preview" journal may also help bolster standards and allow feedback from peers to improve overall quality. Currently, most criticism from the industry happens after construction is finished, which is largely an intellectual argument with little practical value.

Just my 2 cents.
So, the public should stay out of it, and take what they give us? How was the JW redesigned? Also, if the public stays of out the sessions and stays way in the background and lets the "visionaries" do what they want, then maybe the city will end up with several Conrads, Old Blue Cross buildings, and Lugar Towers...

So, the public should stay out of it, and take what they give us? How was the JW redesigned? Also, if the public stays of out the sessions and stays way in the background and lets the "visionaries" do what they want, then maybe the city will end up with several Conrads, Old Blue Cross buildings, and Lugar Towers...

Well, actually, yes. It is not your land, or your money. Of course with a project like this particular one, one could argue that the taxpayers have a right to have a say, since their money is being spent. But besides that particular sort of case(and I'm talking about TIF loans and straight out grants, not abatements), it really has nothing to do with you. Most of the great projects ever created were not liked by the "public" when they were proposed or even initially completed. But through time, they became icons of their respective cities(Chicago's Sears Tower, New York's World Trade Center, etc.).

The Conrad was paraded through the process through political favor and through the promise of bringing a true 5-star hotel to the city. It was also restricted in materials and style by local leaders, to the detriment of the quality of the project(which still is not a bad project by any means, but still not inspiring). I don't know which buildings you mean by "Old Blue Cross buildings" so I can't comment there. And lastly, the Lugar Towers were built with public funds as well.

So coming back to the original point, this idea that every person around a development has some sort of psuedo-"right" to restrict said development on any basis they choose is dangerous and I would say antithetical to the principles of American governance. Individuals are free, first from coercion or fraud from their fellow men, then from coercive action from the government that they did not incur from infringing on another's rights. Men have no innate right to legislate what other people do/say/write/build, so they would not be able to delegate the enforcement of such right to their agent, the government. If you want to live in a country where that is the fouding principle, there are several still out there. I mean, there's Cuba, China, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and even Russia still(though the principle was more at home in the more Red version that died out in the early 90's).

What I was trying to propose was a method in which the developers could still take feedback from the "public"(i.e. the mass of individuals in Indianapolis), but through a more effective way than a public hearing at some remote location at some hour that most people are working on a work day. And also create a way to induce more incentives for the industry as a whole to more strongly affect a positive influence on proposed projects before the ground breaks. This is a voluntary method of improving architectural and developmental practices, that does not resort to the tired practice of "Me no like, you no build" and then having the government exercising police power against innocent parties.

Look, I think it IS a positive when developers look to the neighboring public for insight into their projects, but I believe that is the developer's choice. Not the public's "right". We would probably have more willing developers and more daring architects if they knew that the building of their visions did not depend on the whim of a largely uneducated or unjustifiably biased "public".

Well, actually, yes. It is not your land, or your money. Of course with a project like this particular one, one could argue that the taxpayers have a right to have a say, since their money is being spent. But besides that particular sort of case(and I'm talking about TIF loans and straight out grants, not abatements), it really has nothing to do with you. Most of the great projects ever created were not liked by the "public" when they were proposed or even initially completed. But through time, they became icons of their respective cities(Chicago's Sears Tower, New York's World Trade Center, etc.).

The Conrad was paraded through the process through political favor and through the promise of bringing a true 5-star hotel to the city. It was also restricted in materials and style by local leaders, to the detriment of the quality of the project(which still is not a bad project by any means, but still not inspiring). I don't know which buildings you mean by "Old Blue Cross buildings" so I can't comment there. And lastly, the Lugar Towers were built with public funds as well.

So coming back to the original point, this idea that every person around a development has some sort of psuedo-"right" to restrict said development on any basis they choose is dangerous and I would say antithetical to the principles of American governance. Individuals are free, first from coercion or fraud from their fellow men, then from coercive action from the government that they did not incur from infringing on another's rights. Men have no innate right to legislate what other people do/say/write/build, so they would not be able to delegate the enforcement of such right to their agent, the government. If you want to live in a country where that is the fouding principle, there are several still out there. I mean, there's Cuba, China, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and even Russia still(though the principle was more at home in the more Red version that died out in the early 90's).

What I was trying to propose was a method in which the developers could still take feedback from the "public"(i.e. the mass of individuals in Indianapolis), but through a more effective way than a public hearing at some remote location at some hour that most people are working on a work day. And also create a way to induce more incentives for the industry as a whole to more strongly affect a positive influence on proposed projects before the ground breaks. This is a voluntary method of improving architectural and developmental practices, that does not resort to the tired practice of "Me no like, you no build" and then having the government exercising police power against innocent parties.

Look, I think it IS a positive when developers look to the neighboring public for insight into their projects, but I believe that is the developer's choice. Not the public's "right". We would probably have more willing developers and more daring architects if they knew that the building of their visions did not depend on the whim of a largely uneducated or unjustifiably biased "public".

It is not your land or money, so why would you even comment on any project, or any of out "thoughts", when you seem to not want feeback. Too many project are put up by people that could care less what "the public" really thinks. No, I have no desire to live where elections are still be spouted about. I believe that citizens have more say so than what you would like them to have.

From what right? That is control of other people's activities! OK, I want to hold an election over what you eat for supper. When you go to bed. Who you date. What kind of clothes you wear. How you cut your hair. I mean, you go out into the "public" and we all have to deal with the result of you choices, and some people might not like your flattop(or your mohawk), they might not like that sleepy look in your eyes, they might not want to see you with a girl of a different race(or who is cuter than they think you deserve), they might want to never see another plaid shirt in their life(or a turtleneck sweater). You don't like that? Well why not, you want to live in a world where citizens have more say so! Well, that is the logical end of your kind of "say so". It's been around for some time now, it's called fascism.

I actually do like feedback, but in a VOLUNTARY manner, not with guns pointed at someone's head. I like conversations to be, I don't know, civil. Not based on the premise of physical force. I also don't believe that the manner that current public hearings are held make much sense being at the time they are held. Public hearings should be a choice for the developer. He might not care what I think, and I might not care what he thinks or what he builds. I and you are still free to lambast the project as much as we want from this forum, a newspaper, a blog, or on radio and TV(if they want to give us a hearing). And if the developer says "Wow, they've got a point. Let's change this." then awesome. But as long as the project is not a threat to public safety in the real sense and does not bring a true nuisance to the surrounding development, then it should be allowed to be built.

So, in short, I want feedback. And I like to give it. I just want it to be a civil discussion between rational minds, not a shouting match at the town hall that the developer must cower before or have police power taken against him unfairly. Those who would like the latter are in the wrong country.

The taxpayers are putting somewhere between $45M-65M into this project. They are also giving a valuable concession - official and exclusive convention center ballroom rights. That gives the public a seat at the table.

The overall quality and sustainability of the built environment of a community is clearly a concern of its citizens. If their had been more concern about these items, over the last 30 years, communities and their citizens might not be dealing with as many issues as they are today.

While 'good' architecture may be an individual opinion, the siting, layout and how the structure relates to its surroundings should be a major concern to citizens.

From what right? That is control of other people's activities! OK, I want to hold an election over what you eat for supper. When you go to bed. Who you date. What kind of clothes you wear. How you cut your hair. I mean, you go out into the "public" and we all have to deal with the result of you choices, and some people might not like your flattop(or your mohawk), they might not like that sleepy look in your eyes, they might not want to see you with a girl of a different race(or who is cuter than they think you deserve), they might want to never see another plaid shirt in their life(or a turtleneck sweater). You don't like that? Well why not, you want to live in a world where citizens have more say so! Well, that is the logical end of your kind of "say so". It's been around for some time now, it's called fascism.

I actually do like feedback, but in a VOLUNTARY manner, not with guns pointed at someone's head. I like conversations to be, I don't know, civil. Not based on the premise of physical force. I also don't believe that the manner that current public hearings are held make much sense being at the time they are held. Public hearings should be a choice for the developer. He might not care what I think, and I might not care what he thinks or what he builds. I and you are still free to lambast the project as much as we want from this forum, a newspaper, a blog, or on radio and TV(if they want to give us a hearing). And if the developer says "Wow, they've got a point. Let's change this." then awesome. But as long as the project is not a threat to public safety in the real sense and does not bring a true nuisance to the surrounding development, then it should be allowed to be built.

So, in short, I want feedback. And I like to give it. I just want it to be a civil discussion between rational minds, not a shouting match at the town hall that the developer must cower before or have police power taken against him unfairly. Those who would like the latter are in the wrong country.

The logical end of my say so is not fascism! High and oppressed are not my thoughts of people having a voice. Not going there, you may want to, but fascism, and police power has not come out of my mouth or been in my mind. I have seen that and my thoughts about development have nothing to do with fascism!

Wow, such a deep arguement for such a simple question, you guys are tripping me out!

So what are we argueing about, the 14 story Conrad or the 34 story Marriott? I have become very confused reading this thread! This thread is about the 34 floor Marriott is it not?

Wow, such a deep arguement for such a simple question, you guys are tripping me out!

So what are we argueing about, the 14 story Conrad or the 34 story Marriott? I have become very confused reading this thread! This thread is about the 34 floor Marriott is it not?

You are exactly correct. A comment about the public having a say in what a tower can look like turned into some sort of whatever speedblue thinks I said! Like I said, I have seen that, and my thoughts are not fascist, they are that people need a voice when a tower that will be up for years and years,should have some public input. Done!

They will start to break ground this Friday on the new JW Marriott and 3 other hotels.

Groundbreaking is set for Thursday according to Inside Indiana Business.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=29533

I drove past on my way to work this morning and the parking lot is full of trailers loading up furniture, linens, towels and everything else.

I can't wait to see this building go up.

Did they do away with the multicolored glass? There is a hi-res rendering on the IndyStar and I do not see multicolored glass anymore.

http://www.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG109313527.PDF

^^I think that picture, being represented at dusk, hides the multi-colored window panes because of the back lighting from within and the glare of the sunset. My guess is the windows are still multi-colored.

A groundbreaking ceremony for the four Marriott brand hotels is set for 11 a.m. Thursday at the southwest corner of West and Washington Streets in downtown Indianapolis.

White Lodging and REI Real Estate Services last week unveiled the completed architectural design for the $425 million JW Marriott Indianapolis complex.


The hotel development project will include the city’s largest convention hotel and a total of 1,623 rooms including: 1,005 rooms in the JW Marriott Indianapolis tower; 294 rooms in the Indianapolis Courtyard by Marriott Downtown; 168 rooms in the Indianapolis Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott Downtown; and 156 rooms in the Indianapolis SpringHill Suites by Marriott Downtown.

The JW Marriott tower will include a blue glass curtain wall design on all four sides complimented by stainless steel horizontal accent panels. The 34-story JW Marriott tower stands approximately 375 feet tall making it the tallest hotel in Indianapolis and the city’s seventh tallest building.

“We are excited to start construction on one of the largest hotel development projects in the country,” said Michael W. Wells, president of REI Real Estate Services, LLC. “This spectacular complex of four Marriott hotels is critical to Indianapolis hosting the 2012 Super Bowl, collegiate sporting events and large conventions.”

The hotel tower will be located on a seven acre site overlooking the White River State Park and will have more than 105,000 square feet of meeting, banquet and exhibit space.

The smaller hotels should be finished in March 2010 and the JW Marriott should be completed by March 2011.

From the article above, I think the multicolored glass is gone. "The JW Marriott tower will include a blue glass curtain wall design on all four sides complimented by stainless steel horizontal accent panels."

It is going to take nearly 3 years to get this project completed. Does that seem a little long to anyone?

Giant-sized image: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/2528030953_48965550c2_o.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/bluerenderingfromindystarcrop-1.jpg

Ablerock-

Thanks for the rendering! I really like this sleek, simple design and believe that it will add significantly to Indy's skyline. I know many don't like it, but I think it will make a huge impact.

That looks like a Playboy logo on the end of the building!

I think the design of the main tower is very nice. The secondary hotels are a problem.

Three years does seem like a long time. The Trump Tower in Chicago is a three year project, and it's a 1000+ footer. But it doesn't seem ridiculously out of bounds either, considering the amount of underground work that needs to be done and such.

I'm slightly encouraged by the street-level presence at West Street in this rendering. Lots of glass and lights and a "gee, what's going on in there" feel to it. Unfortunately, it looks like it peters-out pretty quickly down Washington.

It seems to me that the other two proposed hotels, on the western end of that block, aren't shown in this view. In fact it seems like the depiction is just cutting off anything new that will be to the west of the JW Marriott tower. That may be part of the reason why the view seems to "peter out" to the west along Washington Street. I wasn't happy with the way those two other hotels were positioned (nor their architecture as shown in the recently posted depictions) - so its hard to say which is worse. The view in the new depiction of the JW Marriott, where nothing appears to the west of the high rise, or the reality of what may be coming - which wasn't looking all that great in my opinion. Maybe the fact that the other two hotels aren't shown (I guess the existing Marriott Courtyard is kind of shown, in shadow) - could mean that there was a desire not to show them as most recently depicted, and --- (keep your fingers crossed) maybe they are being re-designed.

From Today's IndyStar.


Hotel complex gets a leg up on success
Mogul as co-developer, no-strike vow are pluses as project launches

By Jeff Swiatek

A Construction of the JW Marriott complex will be a well-orchestrated 21/2-year rush job that has two big factors favoring its timely completion.

It is being built under a labor agreement that includes a no-strike pledge from area trade unions.

And the developer team includes one of Indiana's richest residents, who has pledged his considerable fortune toward getting the project done -- thereby sidestepping the tight credit market.

Groundbreaking on the $425 million project, set for today, marks the construction start on one of Indianapolis' most significant public-private developments. The four-hotel Downtown complex will add 1,623 rooms to the city's lodging ledger and create its largest hotel, a 1,005-room JW Marriott that will allow the city to host ever-bigger conventions.

"This hotel is a critical element" in the city's growing convention business, said Bob Bedell, president of Indianapolis Convention & Visitors Association. "It has always been a disadvantage to Indianapolis not to have a hotel this big."

The 34-story JW Marriott will serve the expanding Indiana Convention Center, which is doubling in size, and allow it to host two major conventions at once, which it can't do now without such a mega-hotel, he said.

Groundbreaking occurs on a schedule set by the city, which last year chose REI Real Estate Services of Carmel and White Lodging of Merrillville as co-developers. White is using the 7 acres it owns at Washington and West streets for the complex.

White's owner and founder is billionaire Dean White, who has taken a personal interest in the project and is ready to self-finance it if needed, said Jeremy Stephenson, director of development for REI. "We're in good shape on the financing," Stephenson said.

The city has required the financing to be in place by July 31.

Self-financing is an edge at a time when lenders nationwide have become more reluctant to invest in commercial real estate projects, as the economy slows and consumers and businesses cut back on spending. "Whatever the economy's doing . . . that risk is not present in our deal," Stephenson said.

The complex will be built under a labor pact hammered out with area unions. Similar agreements were done for Lucas Oil Stadium, the Indianapolis International Airport midfield terminal, Circle Centre mall, and other big construction projects with city involvement.

The agreement gives the city and private developers "lots of protections . . . to make sure the job gets done in time," said Tom O'Donnell, president of the Central Indiana Building and Construction Trades Council. In return, the developers and all contractors agree to pay prevailing union wages and abide by work standards and provisions that include random drug testing of workers, he said.

O'Donnell is confident the trade unions can supply the hundreds of workers needed to build the complex. The end of construction on Lucas Oil Stadium and the new airport terminal later this year will free up workers to shift to the JW Marriott job, he said.

The developers and the city this week were set to recertify their 2007 project agreement, affirming that "everything in the agreement is still current and there are no changes," said Deron S. Kintner, general counsel and deputy director of the Indianapolis Local Public Improvement Bond Bank.

The city is investing $48.5 million in public funds in the project, mostly to help build the parking garage.

"The city has a vested interest in seeing this through," said Bond Bank director Kevin Taylor. "We will be monitoring it every step of the way" to head off cost overruns or other problems, he said.

Phoenix-based Hunt Construction Group, which has an Indianapolis office, will build the JW Marriott, the garage and ballroom and will partially demolish and expand the existing Courtyard by Marriott hotel on the site. Two other hotels planned for the complex will be built by another contractor.

The site is so tight that one lane each of Washington and Maryland streets where they adjoin the property will need to be shut down two years for construction activity, said Brian Woods, contract manager for Hunt.

The city wants the three smaller hotels on the site to open in time to host fans of the March 2010 NCAA Final Four basketball championship being held in Indianapolis. The JW Marriott will open about 10 months later.

A three-level garage will be built underneath 80 percent of the site. The garage, sitting eight feet under the water table, will be "basically a bathtub," Woods said, requiring two pumps to constantly pump out water that will collect in underground drains.

The Courtyard by Marriott, including a TGI Friday's restaurant, closed this week. Two wings on the Courtyard will be torn down while the restaurant will be "basically mothballed," Woods said, so it can reopen in 2010 looking much as it does now.

The JW Marriott's latest design calls for an all-blue glass facade. A previous look included some yellow-tinted panes, which developers decided would present too much of a color contrast to guests inside the rooms, said Stephenson of REI Real Estate Services.

Outside of Chicago, the Indianapolis JW Marriott will offer visitors the most rooms, meeting space and ballroom space of any convention center-linked hotel in the Midwest, said Cory Chambers, the hotel's director of sales and marketing.

Chambers said he already is booking trade shows and reservations for 2011 and beyond. The groundbreaking should facilitate advance booking, he said, since it gives people confidence that the hotel will be built.

Call Star reporter Jeff Swiatek at (317) 444-6483.

Aerials of the site:

Looking West
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/jwaerial05.jpg


Looking North
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/jwaerial04.jpg


Looking East
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/jwaerial03.jpg


Looking South
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/jwaerial02.jpg

I just drove past earlier tonight and they're full-steam-ahead with unloading the Courtyard building. On the West St. side they were stacking toilets and sinks. On the Washington St. side they were loading all the linens into trucks. On the Maryland side, they had some construction equipment and a couple pieces of steel stacked up. The barriers taking up one lane on all sides have been put in place. Just a little under three years and they can be removed.....

I like the re-design and the fact that it will be a blue curtain wall instead of multi-colored. I wish someone could show what it would look like in relation to the rest of the D/T core. It will definitely expand the east-west footprint of D/T. As for the other hotel projects are the Penn Centre and Merrill Tower projects still a go? It was my understanding that they already had secured financing or has this changed? Would appreciate any info regarding those projects not to mention I would love to see them go up soon.

A couple of videos from indystar.com. Not much in the way of new info.

Groundbreaking Video
(http://gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/gannett-indianapolis-532-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer&maven_referralPlaylistId=daa69ea88594654a24eca0e051a0a15e5e026ca1&maven_referralObject=757438128)
^^I almost spit up when Bob White, CEO of hotel developer, White Lodging, called the JW "the third leg...of a three-legged stool." Maybe I just have a dirty mind. :)

Ball State (arenn's favorite school of architecture ;) ) professor Scott Truex's thoughts on the project
(http://gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/gannett-indianapolis-532-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer&maven_referralPlaylistId=ceaa4036a6088c1ab6b89b27f27db151f86d1395&maven_referralObject=755697621)

I like the re-design and the fact that it will be a blue curtain wall instead of multi-colored. I wish someone could show what it would look like in relation to the rest of the D/T core. It will definitely expand the east-west footprint of D/T. As for the other hotel projects are the Penn Centre and Merrill Tower projects still a go? It was my understanding that they already had secured financing or has this changed? Would appreciate any info regarding those projects not to mention I would love to see them go up soon.

There haven't been any recent updates on their status. Once the economy improves these projects will get underway.

I have to say .. I love the new rendering. The complete glass curtain gives it a very un-Indianapolis look, but in a good way I think. I wish we could get something like that here in Wisconsin.

On Arenn's page he states that the JW Marriott isn't fully financed???? If this is the case and they are starting with the smaller hotels first, could we be getting our very own Museum Plaza and never see this completed????

According to the IndyStar article, Dean White will self finance the project if he has to. But it sounds like they won't have to come to that.

White's owner and founder is billionaire Dean White, who has taken a personal interest in the project and is ready to self-finance it if needed, said Jeremy Stephenson, director of development for REI. "We're in good shape on the financing," Stephenson said.

The city has required the financing to be in place by July 31.

Self-financing is an edge at a time when lenders nationwide have become more reluctant to invest in commercial real estate projects, as the economy slows and consumers and businesses cut back on spending. "Whatever the economy's doing . . . that risk is not present in our deal," Stephenson said.

Just wanted to let everyone know that my Pop works on the 11th floor of the Goverment Center right across the street from the JW. They've got a perfect view of the site. I'll start posting photos once some significant progress starts.

That's the article I was referencing. It is very clear they do not yet have a construction loan in place. The deadline is July 31st. The public financing was completed and the bonds are already sold. The developers now have to get their loan. It's nice to think they might self-finance, but that's the same story I was told when I repeatedly questioned the financing for the Museum Plaza project in Louisville. In this financial market, I'll believe it when I see it, though in this case I'm inclined to feel very positive about the project.

In retrospect, it appears the city probably made the right decision in going with the JW guys. At least it will if they pull off financing. The siting isn't ideal, but the main tower is now looking pretty nice at least. If they fix the secondary structures and the street level engagement, this should be a very good project.

Just wanted to let everyone know that my Pop works on the 11th floor of the Goverment Center right across the street from the JW. They've got a perfect view of the site. I'll start posting photos once some significant progress starts.

I look forward to your updates!:)

I have to say .. I love the new rendering. The complete glass curtain gives it a very un-Indianapolis look, but in a good way I think. I wish we could get something like that here in Wisconsin.

Milwaukee has a couple cool ones going up, and have been up. My ex used to take me up there. I do like that museum. Milwaukee is coming along well I think.

On Arenn's page he states that the JW Marriott isn't fully financed???? If this is the case and they are starting with the smaller hotels first, could we be getting our very own Museum Plaza and never see this completed????

I do not use the word I guess it is"Shocked" much, however if the JW does not get finished, I would be shocked! There is too much in the political climate as well as the cities future for it not to get fully financed and finished! As negative as I can get at times, this one would even surprise me, if not fully built! This baby will get done, I am sure of it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Dean White of Whiteco is already setting up some of his friends with reservations in this hotel for the 2012 Super Bowl. When that was announced, there became virtually no way that this wouldn't get done by then. Bringing in all of the corporate big wigs from all over the US - this will be Mr. White's top priority to have this project completed and looking good in plenty of time before Feb 5th 2012 (ie at least by the last week of January of 2012). :)

Now that I am finished with classes I rarely get dt anymore; anyone have any photos of the area? Is there any visual significance taking place yet even? Thanks...

Now that I am finished with classes I rarely get dt anymore; anyone have any photos of the area? Is there any visual significance taking place yet even? Thanks...
I may be able to grab some photos at some point, but I can tell you that all portions of the existing building that they were going to demolish are now GONE. There's also a pretty significant pit on the western edge of the site that gets deeper every day.

Now that I am finished with classes I rarely get dt anymore; anyone have any photos of the area? Is there any visual significance taking place yet even? Thanks...

I'll grab some photos as well. I can get up high. :-)

Alright, that would be excellent; thank you guys!

Anything happening at the JW site? Surveyors out at least?

theres a giant ass hole in the ground =) I hope they hang a banner with the JW rendering on the fence so people actually know whats about to go up at the site.

ok, someone show me a courtyard that is much nicer looking. There aren't many that are really any better. At least not ones that I have seen. Same thing with the Marriott, I think it is relatively rare for Marriott to build it's own building, and that one actually looks pretty good. I may be wrong, but I believe most downtown marriotts are in pre existing buildins, or buildings designed for something else but the developer wanted a hotel in it.

Er, most marriotts build their own buildings, esp JW Marriotts. And Louisville's downtown courtyard Marriot has a brick facade. Not a brilliant design, but certainly not suburban:
http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/s/sdfdt/sdfdt_home_leftimage.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o4/14/344614/1/53655173._DSC0023small.jpg

I think its laughable that Indy works so hard to get a good design out of Marriott, finally get one, and then they still try and tuck a piece of crap behind it. Guess they just really wanted to have the last laugh.

Er, most marriotts build their own buildings, esp JW Marriotts. And Louisville's downtown courtyard Marriot has a brick facade. Not a brilliant design, but certainly not suburban:
http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/s/sdfdt/sdfdt_home_leftimage.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o4/14/344614/1/53655173._DSC0023small.jpg

I think its laughable that Indy works so hard to get a good design out of Marriott, finally get one, and then they still try and tuck a piece of crap behind it. Guess they just really wanted to have the last laugh.

It really is too bad, isn't it? As often noted, the other major downfall of this project is the pedestrian experience. The south sidewalk, directly across from Victory Field, is only 8' wide. It's a shame. I do have a friend working on the landscaping and they're trying to do some interesting things. It won't make up for it, but it will help.

That being said, we did get a much better tower than initially proposed, and the city was wise to invest in a developer with large pockets in a time of economic turmoil.

It really is too bad, isn't it? As often noted, the other major downfall of this project is the pedestrian experience. The south sidewalk, directly across from Victory Field, is only 8' wide. It's a shame. I do have a friend working on the landscaping and they're trying to do some interesting things. It won't make up for it, but it will help.

That being said, we did get a much better tower than initially proposed, and the city was wise to invest in a developer with large pockets in a time of economic turmoil.

Ablerock, Did anyone complain about that 8' wide sidewalk? That is so stupid that for at least safety purposes, lawsuits, whatever, that everyone that has a hand in this tower is not considering a wider sidewalk. Let me see, I am at a computer against a 12' wide wall. Man 8' is not alot of room for that area!

Alright, that would be excellent; thank you guys!

Here you go. Sorry it took so long! :)

I'll try and post some ground-level shots I took as well, when I have more time.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/ablerock/DSC01871b.jpg

Ablerock, Did anyone complain about that 8' wide sidewalk? That is so stupid that for at least safety purposes, lawsuits, whatever, that everyone that has a hand in this tower is not considering a wider sidewalk. Let me see, I am at a computer against a 12' wide wall. Man 8' is not alot of room for that area!

There's good news, but I can't share it yet. Sorry, I don't like being cryptic! It's positive, be glad for that. :)

Cool Thanks! At least the area looks like a real construction site. Signs about what the towers will be would be cool. I am going to Victory Field in a week or so. My nephew plays for the Durham Bulls. That whole construction area looks neat in that picture.

Thanks for the pic Ablerock. I agree with IndyYeah, there should be some signage on the fences showing what the finished products would look like. I would imagine that in 3mos we should start seeing all kinds of cranes on site.

NOW, looking at Ablerocks photo, imagine a really cool truss-type bridge on Washington Street over White River. I have been thinking about this for a while...it would really add to the downtown in terms of structures. The "money" shots would be cool from that side of DT.

Thanks for the pic Ablerock. I agree with IndyYeah, there should be some signage on the fences showing what the finished products would look like. I would imagine that in 3mos we should start seeing all kinds of cranes on site.

NOW, looking at Ablerocks photo, imagine a really cool truss-type bridge on Washington Street over White River. I have been thinking about this for a while...it would really add to the downtown in terms of structures. The "money" shots would be cool from that side of DT.

Do you mean replace the new Washington Street bridge that cars use now? Or replace the original Washington St. Bridge that's used by pedestrians?

Either way, that's a good idea. It would be great to do that at Michigan and the other streets that cross the river up north as well.

I also wanted to add that I saw some unreleased renderings a couple of weeks ago.

This mother is wide when viewed straight on from the east and west. The lighting they used in the rendering didn't accent the curve at all, so maybe it will look more elegant in real life. In that rendering at least, it looked wide, flat, and blocky.

They've also gone with a facade on the base that's more complementary to the Eiteljorg. I find that funny because I suggested just that on the IBJ blog! Perhaps someone was paying attention? The person that showed me the renderings said he didn't like it as much, but I think it's just a matter of personal taste, not a serious style mistake. If they do it right, it will warm the building's looks up considerably.

The "new" bridge used by vehicles is what I was thinking.

The "new" bridge used by vehicles is what I was thinking.

Cool. And I did mean new Washington Street alignment, instead of new bridge. :-)

I think it would also be cool to combine the rail and road on one bridge. What if that rail one day gets used for transit? That would be great. A friend of mine is big on redeveloping the Allison site and creating a river-city that links right into transit that would connect downtown and the airport.

Cool. And I did mean new Washington Street alignment, instead of new bridge. :-)

I think it would also be cool to combine the rail and road on one bridge. What if that rail one day gets used for transit? That would be great. A friend of mine is big on redeveloping the Allison site and creating a river-city that links right into transit that would connect downtown and the airport.

I love the idea of taking the Allison site and doing something with it. That whole area is ripe for redevelopment in the next 20 years. I was thinking about it while driving home the other day along Harding.

You can take that whole stretch of Harding, basically from Washington St. south to Kentucky (Lilly Technology Campus) and build a very pedestrian friendly village with light rail transportation in downtown. If you could take the rail yards, the Allison property and the recycling center, that gives you a ton of space to really create an innovative neighborhood. There is interstate access at Harding and I-70 just north of Kentucky and with the Lilly Tech Campus just south of that there is a work force population within walking distance.

The whole southwestern portion of downtown could change drastically. From the Luke west and down Kentucky Ave. to Harding and north and east up to Washington St.. That is quite a large swath of land that could be redeveloped. Currently there isn't a whole lot of housing in that area. It was all inudstrial with a few neighborhoods in between. I can't think of another area of that scale so close to downtown that could undergo such a from the ground up type of development.

I love the idea of taking the Allison site and doing something with it. That whole area is ripe for redevelopment in the next 20 years. I was thinking about it while driving home the other day along Harding.

You can take that whole stretch of Harding, basically from Washington St. south to Kentucky (Lilly Technology Campus) and build a very pedestrian friendly village with light rail transportation in downtown. If you could take the rail yards, the Allison property and the recycling center, that gives you a ton of space to really create an innovative neighborhood. There is interstate access at Harding and I-70 just north of Kentucky and with the Lilly Tech Campus just south of that there is a work force population within walking distance.

The whole southwestern portion of downtown could change drastically. From the Luke west and down Kentucky Ave. to Harding and north and east up to Washington St.. That is quite a large swath of land that could be redeveloped. Currently there isn't a whole lot of housing in that area. It was all inudstrial with a few neighborhoods in between. I can't think of another area of that scale so close to downtown that could undergo such a from the ground up type of development.

That would be great. But something so innovative and ambitious will never get built in Indy until the mindset of its politicians and residents fundamentally changes. Nashville or Charlotte would pursue redevelopment aggressively, not Indy.

Hey, Sorry for this lack of insite post, but is that Courtyard there getting a facelift, interior or both? I know that plain new one is going up, the JW, this Courtyard, anymore?

That blue glass for the JW, is that the type of blue that the Ft.Wayne one is getting? Marriott, or JW is it?

Hey, Sorry for this lack of insite post, but is that Courtyard there getting a facelift, interior or both? I know that plain new one is going up, the JW, this Courtyard, anymore?

The Courtyard will move into the new building with Springhill Suites and Fairfield Inn will occupy the current Courtyard building. I don't think they've released any plans for the facade, but I assume the interior will be new.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/jwcomplex1.jpg

^^ Just to remind everyone.:lol:

That laugh smilie is great! Worked well for that post, especially for a person like myself that really does not care for the building- thing.

Yea, I agree. Those four hotels on that site seem to have no idea that the other three are on the same block. They don't relate to each other at all - nor to the adjacent roads and surrounding land uses. Sad. Also - what / where is the "Allison" site? Is it the GM Truck and bus plant along the west bank of the White River - south of the RR tracks? That's the only big industrial / automotive related thing in that general area that was described that I was aware of. I thought it was still operating though. Is there some other big plant in that area too?

I was thinking of the GM foundry. Sorry for the confusion. And, I believe it slated to be shut down.

While the layout and design could be much better, at least its another tower and not just 4 and 5 story hotels. The one big positive is these hotels are much better than what was on the site.

Hunt Construction Group has created a project website which offers great information, photo galleries and a construction cam. Check it out by clicking the link below...

http://www.huntjwindy.com/photo_gallery.php

Im actually very impressed with the interior designs, which were much more contemporary than i had expected. They did a good job of not making them not too minimalistic as well. I'm actually kind of excited now for this project to go up! I still don't know what to think of the grand ballroom's facade...

The interior looks like a passing trend but I really don't care about the interior, it can be gutted and redone in another cheap style in 2020.
The exterior hm. This is the first time I have really LOOKED at the design (I think.) and I have to say the street level structure looks like something out of 1976 and not in the good way. The highrise itself looks like it will be reflective however I'm not too big of a fan of the whole 'organic' design. If they can get it to work as well as the curved structure works with the library than I'm all for it.

Why are the multi-colored windows on the design? They took them off, I read. Hunt did not want to show what the real version looks like? I think that it has been a month or so since the "one" colored windows were announced. We all have gripes on this site, mine have been with "final images" lately.

http://www.huntjwindy.com/assets/images/gallery/exterior_showcase/full/Exterior_0003.jpg

This shows how bad the site plan is. One hotel with a huge setback, one that looks like a hospital, and another that seems to be turning its back on the whole mess.

In fairness, White River State Park is hardly a paragon of site plan design. Though I'm no fan of the JW site plan, that's for sure.

Has anyone been down to the construction site lately? Holy cow, they've got a lot of excavation going on.

The ground-level design of the building must be terrible if they're STILL not showing it to us.

Also, the secondary hotel structure looks quite a bit different in the image Cory posted above than the one we were shown previously:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/jwcomplex1.jpg

The window design looks much different and it doesn't appear to have the protruding stairwells.

Unreal! The whole thing has been on the boards, or whatever is used now for months. A real look with closeups would be nice, at least for the public. Maybe Indy Monthly will do something, instead of where to eat and condo tour specials. I see a special Lucas Oil Stadium Indy Monthly mag is out now. At least they can get the windows right.

I must of missed this. The website says that, "This will be the largest Marriott in the US".

http://www.huntjwindy.com/assets/images/gallery/exterior_showcase/full/Exterior_0003.jpg

This shows how bad the site plan is. One hotel with a huge setback, one that looks like a hospital, and another that seems to be turning its back on the whole mess.

Uggghhhh.........All of those AUL employee parking lots make me what to puke.

The thing that makes me want to puke is the Courtyard/Residence Inn complex that Whiteco built on the canal - complete with 10 year tax abatement.

^^

Do you know how tough it was just to get the buildings up to their current setback? Initially, PARKING surrounded the buildings, not in between.

I'm no fan of those hotels but two thoughts I have about them:

A) They're probably built to a low construction standard which makes them excellent candidates for replacement in the long-term.

B) In the shorter term, that site is practically begging to be augmented with a central garage and a third building along New York. Close the New York entrance and use the Senate entrance for in/out for the garage. The site is probably big enough that you could have a third hotel, a garage AND an internal loading/unloading loop for the three hotels.

Cory, it's always interesting to hear your anecdotes from back in your Indy planning days!

Why doesn't Hunt build more downtown commercial projects? Especially mixed-use? They have built some of the innovative facilities in the world and have been able and willing to contact leading architectural firms for design. They aren't perfect, but the bar for their marquee projects is much higher than would seem to be the case with Ratio or many other local companies.

And I wish someone could find out how much AUL wants for those parking lots. Maybe someone could work out a deal to build a multi-story parking facility for AUL Building's tenants, and a relavtively small cash payment in return for those lots. Of course, maybe not at this moment, but sometime in the next 4-5 years(hopefully pre-Super Bowl).

I'm no fan of those hotels but two thoughts I have about them:

A) They're probably built to a low construction standard which makes them excellent candidates for replacement in the long-term.

B) In the shorter term, that site is practically begging to be augmented with a central garage and a third building along New York. Close the New York entrance and use the Senate entrance for in/out for the garage. The site is probably big enough that you could have a third hotel, a garage AND an internal loading/unloading loop for the three hotels.

Cory, it's always interesting to hear your anecdotes from back in your Indy planning days!

About Cory's comments.. Could it be a good thing to get the whole thing the way it should be, or is it all a pain in the ass? It should be done correctly, despite the pain, or are the people in the know too whatever?

Why doesn't Hunt build more downtown commercial projects? Especially mixed-use? They have built some of the innovative facilities in the world and have been able and willing to contact leading architectural firms for design. They aren't perfect, but the bar for their marquee projects is much higher than would seem to be the case with Ratio or many other local companies.

And I wish someone could find out how much AUL wants for those parking lots. Maybe someone could work out a deal to build a multi-story parking facility for AUL Building's tenants, and a relavtively small cash payment in return for those lots. Of course, maybe not at this moment, but sometime in the next 4-5 years(hopefully pre-Super Bowl).

I thought that Hunt is involved with several projects in the past 20 years! Go on Emporis, I am not sure I would want them, however I am not totally judging them. Not sure how much politics gets involved. But they seem to be involved in alot of projects.

Hunt is a contractor, not a developer, as near as I can tell.

Hunt is a contractor, not a developer, as near as I can tell.

Exactly. They build, and as far as developing and design, they probably don't do that. However, I am not sure what competition of theirs thinks, or the differences are. Quality, bottom line, etc.. They seem to do alot of projects that is all I know.

Uggghhhh.........All of those AUL employee parking lots make me what to puke.

I can think of some cities that would kill to have that few surface parking lots.

I can think of some cities that would kill to have that few surface parking lots.

Such as?

Milwaukee!!

Anything new happening at the JW site? Any signage around the site?

I was DT today and the hole on site is enormous! This development is going to do wonders, regardless of how poorly its planned.

I was DT today and the hole on site is enormous!

I know! Every time I see it, I'm like "DAMN! That is one big hole!"

Completely off topic, but I really wish the city would do something about the intersection of Maryland and West. It is a nightmare for pedestrians during peak traffic. The fact that they have to get police out directing pedestrian traffic during Indians games should tell them something.

That SW quad was nuts this weekend with Gencon, the LOS tours, an Indians game, and all the other normal downtown happenings.

I know! Every time I see it, I'm like "DAMN! That is one big hole!"


And getting bigger. Over 300 tri-axles loaded and hauled out each shift, so consider that 600+ loads per day. Concrete foundations begin next week.

Such as?

Houston
Dallas
Las Vegas
Jacksonville

Just to cite a few. Why do you ask ?

Houston
Dallas
Las Vegas
Jacksonville

Just to cite a few. Why do you ask ?

Um, I don't know, because I wanted to know which cities you were thinking of? ;)

You can't just say "I can think of some cities that would kill to have that few surface parking lots," and not give examples!

May I ask you why you asked me why I asked you what cities you were thinking of? ;)

----

Seriously, I just wanted to know so I could look at them on Google Earth. I wanted to see which cities you were talking about and compare them to Indy. Thanks for the list. :)

May I ask you why you asked me why I asked you what cities you were thinking of? ;)
:nuts:

Um, I don't know, because I wanted to know which cities you were thinking of? ;)

You can't just say "I can think of some cities that would kill to have that few surface parking lots," and not give examples!

May I ask you why you asked me why I asked you what cities you were thinking of? ;)

----

Seriously, I just wanted to know so I could look at them on Google Earth. I wanted to see which cities you were talking about and compare them to Indy. Thanks for the list. :)

I asked because it almost seemed as if you took umbrage at the suggestion that Indy might not be the surface parking lot-capital of America. :)

I asked because it almost seemed as if you took umbrage at the suggestion that Indy might not be the surface parking lot-capital of America. :)

Why hasn't some travel magazine ranked cities on this yet? We need to know really is the surface parking lot capital of America!

this looks nice!!:okay:


http://blog.ibj.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/southwest-titleblockv2.jpg

I asked because it almost seemed as if you took umbrage at the suggestion that Indy might not be the surface parking lot-capital of America. :)

No, no, not at all. No umbrage here. It's funny, sometimes emails and posts can be read differently than what you meant.

It was just a harmless "...such as? Could you expound on that? I'm intrigued by what you said," statement.

Not a "...such as what? You're a dumb-ass! Everybody knows we're the king of parking lots! How dare you imply that we're not! I farking love parking lots!" tirade. ;)

Are there any newer looks of the JW, with the regular blue glass?

Are there any newer looks of the JW, with the regular blue glass?

Am I reading this wrong or did I miss something? Are they going to go with a solid color for the glass instead of this ugly storm damaged look? It really does look like a building that has been patched up after many of the windows were blown out.

Am I reading this wrong or did I miss something? Are they going to go with a solid color for the glass instead of this ugly storm damaged look? It really does look like a building that has been patched up after many of the windows were blown out.

On page 8 of this thread there is a discussion of this along with some renderings with just blue glass.

Is that really all blue or is that just an illusion created with the dusk lighting they used in the rendering?

Is that really all blue or is that just an illusion created with the dusk lighting they used in the rendering?

It's really all blue. The developers mentioned something about patrons being distracted by the multi-colored glass. Sounds like BS, but whatever the reason, it's now going to be just blue.

It's now all blue, the spandrel glass at the floor slab edges is also a blue so you won't get the pronounced "banding" and it will look more monolithic, as a blue glass sculpture. The glass is Viracon "Blue 2000" if you want to look up the data on it. It should look very classy combined with a few subtle stainless steel accents.

It's now all blue, the spandrel glass at the floor slab edges is also a blue so you won't get the pronounced "banding" and it will look more monolithic, as a blue glass sculpture. The glass is Viracon "Blue 2000" if you want to look up the data on it. It should look very classy combined with a few subtle stainless steel accents.
SMSC1 -- you seem very well informed. Thanks for sharing. How are you connected to the JW Marriott project?

SMSC1 -- you seem very well informed. Thanks for sharing. How are you connected to the JW Marriott project?

Construction Manager

^^^ LOL oh, that works too...

Construction Manager

Sweet!

Please let us know what you can as construction advances! :)

Thanks god for the all blue glass. That patchwork plan was hideous.

Yes, I had seen the darker evening picture. Was not sure if a good daylight rendering will comeout? I would have liked to make comparisons. I am in the miniority of liking the multi-colored glass, I think.

Well, the "Indy Canyon" is going to be seeing cranes soon. Actually, there is one called T-Rex on site now, but I noticed that they are setting the foundation for (what I think) will be one of the iconic "blue" cranes you see for highrises. Actually, it is definitely a blue crane, but I would assume because of the size of this project, that we will see two maybe 3 of these types of cranes. This is going in the space of the JW, the other crane appears to be for one of the other towers, or for work on the existing structure.

Sweet!

Please let us know what you can as construction advances! :)

Ok, Since Mr. Wilson addessed the cranes, there will be one tower crane located in the west center of the garage, and 2 for the tower. 2 of these 3 will go up now and the 3rd, toward the north end of the tower will go up mid winter.

Permanent foundations have started with the tower mat reinforcing along West St. and the Garage/Podium spread footings on the west. These on the west are oversized to accomodate a possible future building on top of the garage. They measure 29' x 29' x 9', thus are each larger than a 2 car garage!

A 4th crane will be used to erect the Springhill/Courtyard project beyond what I've mentioned above.

Bidding currently includes Elevators and garage fit-out with structural steel coming up in October for a spring erection. The podium structure is steel and SOD, the high rise tower is primarially post tensioned CIP conc.

BTW, the city looked GREAT on the football shots last night and I figured out you shoud be able to see the JW tower next year thru the Lucas Oil Stadium end window if you are on the east side of the field.

Permanent foundations have started with the tower mat reinforcing along West St. and the Garage/Podium spread footings on the west. These on the west are oversized to accomodate a possible future building on top of the garage. They measure 29' x 29' x 9', thus are each larger than a 2 car garage!
Now THAT'S interesting. Always nice to see designers planning ahead for ideas like this.

And again, great to have your inside info SMSC1.

Check out the constructoin cam.

Two craines went up today I think. At least today was the first day I saw them. :)