The Heart of Christchurch.

Cathedral Square is the city centre of Christchurch, New Zealand. As the name suggests, it is directly in front of the city's Anglican cathedral, Christ Church.

Originally intended to be called Ridley Square (after the Protestant martyr Nicholas Ridley), the area was developed in the 1850s and 1860s, with work starting on the cathedral in 1862. A statue to Robert Godley, the city's founder, was erected in 1867, and the city's central post office was located alongside the square a few years later. The original choice of Ridley is another of Christchurch's many references to Oxford, since Ridley was martyred there.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/59/CathSquare.JPG/450px-CathSquare.JPG

For many years, the square was a busy road intersection, but the main thoroughfares through it were closed during the 1960s and 1970s, and it is now almost entirely pedestrian-only. The square is the city's main meeting place for people taking a break from their work, or just visiting the city, and is a regular site of street performers and speakers of all varieties. Until recent years, the most well-known of these was The Wizard of New Zealand.

Since 2000 The Chalice, a large piece of modern sculpture in the form of an inverted cone, has stood in the square subverting the shape of the spire that rises above the cathedral.

Although always called a "square", its original shape was cruciform, and modifications over the years since its first creation have altered its shape dramatically.

I like the Square itslef, but I reckon some of the buildings that face onto it need to be improved, ie; ANZ bldg, etc.

^^ me too, just better buildings around it.

Improvements?

1. build a horry big underground car park below it ala Aotea Square Auckland.
2. flood it - artificial lake.
:)

but really....

1. Transparent roof ala the Strip Las Vegas
2. Big bad ass underground central train station for CHC Metro.

Improvements?

1. build a horry big underground car park below it ala Aotea Square Auckland.
2. flood it - artificial lake.
:)

but really....

1. Transparent roof ala the Strip Las Vegas
2. Big bad ass underground central train station for CHC Metro.

There was or is talk of an underground central transport hub, something like they have under the Stephenplatz in Vienna.

There is a lack of water in the Square.

And you are both right - some of the buildings around the Square are just DISGUSTING :ohno: :bash:

What I think the Square suffers from at the moment is...


Boy racers zooming around it.
Lack of water and a good water feature.
Does not reflect the garden city image - look at Victoria Square - YUM.
Apart from visiting the Cathedral and the visitor centre, why go there? All the picture theatres are gone. There are no resturants or cafes to go to like all the fantastic European square and places.
Lighting is bad.
Used as a giant carpark - YUK. And I don't like all the traffic moving through it.
It feels unsafe.

One advantage is it attracts all the skin heads and other loosers, so maybe the council could release some Mustard gas ever Friday night - culling the dregs!

One advantage is it attracts all the skin heads and other loosers, so maybe the council could release some Mustard gas ever Friday night - culling the dregs!

:| :sly: Me Likes Your Thinking :naughty: :yes: :okay: :runaway:

One advantage is it attracts all the skin heads and other loosers, so maybe the council could release some Mustard gas ever Friday night - culling the dregs!
A clan of ninjas might be a better idea. Better public relations as well. :)

A clan of ninjas might be a better idea. Better public relations as well. :)

:lol: :lol: Deepred, have you ever been to the Square?

I can't wait to get to Wellington and see Civic Square!!

Its was all a Blurrrr , very pissed whilst celebrating completing the Bungy Jump in Queenstown earlier that day :lol: :banana:

Its was all a Blurrrr , very pissed whilst celebrating completing the Bungy Jump in Queenstown earlier that day :lol: :banana:

:omg: - you've done the Elastic Thingy :nuts: I could NEVER do that :ohno: I'd just die of fright :gaah:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/ccc001001.jpg?t=1190329299

It's an old picture - note the new paving has not gone down and look at the ugly roof of the ugly empty building in the front of the picture.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture276.jpg?t=1190329504

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture293.jpg?t=1190329559

The stunning Italianate post office building with the Fugly Telcom (I think) building behind it - just awful. The crane behind it is for the Ibis in Hereford Street.

I took these pictures last Christmas. The last one was on Christmas morning before Mass in the Cathedral.

Ones Lunch looks Huge with the extra Blood flow :lol: :banana:

:omg: - you've done the Elastic Thingy :nuts: I could NEVER do that :ohno: I'd just die of fright :gaah:

Ones Lunch looks Huge with the extra Blood flow :lol: :banana:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :banana: :banana: You crack me up lovely man :lol: :lol:

my 10 cents worth.... i think that the square is an embaressment to us all!!! It lacks colour, and any sort of draw card (apart from the cathedral itself and visistor centre). Seriously i think it needs traffic to give it life, it died when the bus xchange was built and nothing replaced it. The square looks so busy and full of life back when it was a busy bus hub, im not saying we get back to that but it needs a ROLE.

the current problem is that the roads around it are just too narrow and aren't seperated enough from pedestrians which is why you feel your going to get run over all the time. Its not built for traffic but i think it needs it so maybe seperate the roads a bit more and create clearly defined and 'cosy' pedestrian areas. Pedestrians dont need all that space anyway!!!!!!

Here is what i think it needs:

- More green space (like victoria square but remembering that it ISNT victoria square... if you know what i mean)
- More things to do!!! (cafes, restaurants etc)
- Location of a good shopping precinct nearby (and cinema?)
- if trams go down city mall then some sort of 'tram hub' located in the square (clearly marked out, perhaps part of a bigger 'visitors' complex)

my 10 cents worth.... i think that the square is an embaressment to us all!!! It lacks colour, and any sort of draw card (apart from the cathedral itself and visistor centre). Seriously i think it needs traffic to give it life, it died when the bus xchange was built and nothing replaced it. The square looks so busy and full of life back when it was a busy bus hub, im not saying we get back to that but it needs a ROLE.

the current problem is that the roads around it are just too narrow and aren't seperated enough from pedestrians which is why you feel your going to get run over all the time. Its not built for traffic but i think it needs it so maybe seperate the roads a bit more and create clearly defined and 'cosy' pedestrian areas. Pedestrians dont need all that space anyway!!!!!!

Here is what i think it needs:

- More green space (like victoria square but remembering that it ISNT victoria square... if you know what i mean)
- More things to do!!! (cafes, restaurants etc)
- Location of a good shopping precinct nearby (and cinema?)
- if trams go down city mall then some sort of 'tram hub' located in the square (clearly marked out, perhaps part of a bigger 'visitors' complex)

I agree with what you are saying. My only problem is that cars are such a blight on the visual impact of a wonderful space like the Square. Saying that Victoria Square functions very well with traffic on two sides of it.

I like needs list and think those things would go a long way to making the place really hummmmmm :banana:

You are very right about Cathedral Square not being Victoria Square - so we don't want to go creating an identical space. What we do need is something that EQUALS Victoria - I think Cathedral Square does not equal Victoria Sq at the moment and it MUST - It is the heart of the city :)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture309.jpg?t=1190413180

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture308.jpg?t=1190413279

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture306.jpg?t=1190413321

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture298.jpg?t=1190413375

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture297.jpg?t=1190413420

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture295.jpg?t=1190413463

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture292.jpg?t=1190413605

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture296.jpg?t=1190413646

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture293.jpg?t=1190413681

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture291.jpg?t=1190413715

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture288.jpg?t=1190413768
Looking towards The Square from the Avon River.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture307.jpg?t=1190413862

^^I'm liking those pics dave :cheers:

Thanks Flyin :)

There are some mighty ugly buildings in CHC when you look. The central city has a lot of clearing up and rethinking about itself!! Especially the Square :bash:

I love this one ....

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/Picture292.jpg?t=1190413605

19 December 2007

The greening of the Square continues with the arrival of six moveable planters designed by world-renowned sculptor Neil Dawson.

Mike Theelen, Council’s General Manager of Strategy and Planning says that the City Council has commissioned the planters so help ‘green up’ the Square.

“Christchurch residents have said they want more green space in the Square and want it to be vibrant and to have more events. The moveable planters will help achieve this by giving us the flexibility to use the Square in more creative ways through defining spaces.

“The planters will also provide shade in the summer and shelter in the winter,” says Mr Theelen. “There is also the possibility of varying the planting.’’

Neil Dawson, creator of the planters says “At a symbolic level this concept responds to the context of the Square with reference to the rose window in the cathedral. Representation of natural features into the design features water, waves, mountains and the horizon. At a structural level the unique shape will help create a distinct urban identity or feature for Christchurch,” he says.

Neil Dawson also created the Chalice in the Square.

Square development - Chch. 14 Level $20m Novotel as at 21/12. Signage and fencing up. Foundation work underway .Kick off 2008.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w54/Mikecnz/DSC_0270-2.jpg

Novotel site and C1 dev 21/12.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w54/Mikecnz/DSC_0271-2.jpg

:)

Thanks again Mike. I was thinking of starting a Novotel thread - but the Square thread is a perfect place for any development that is going on there. :banana:

The last photo show how dense with big buildings this corner of the Square will be. CI in the background the new Novotel and then the Press building land that goes all the way inbetween that is now up for sail. I imagine a big hotel or expensive office and shops will go in there. It will be an amazing place. Hopefully they will develop the lanes that are there as well and incorporate them into the inner city network. It's also good the tram has an established route through all this as well. I would imagine the back (east) side of the Novotel will open up into the Cathedral Junction development somehow.

Anyone got a written or visual update on what is going on with the Novotel and over in the Chancery Lane corner??

Ive voted for improvements please. Because its the important heart of the city i think we should ALWAYS be looking at ways of making it better and better. I dont propose throwing craploads of cash at just for the sake of it- lets just tweak it where it need. Like why is the south east corner so dead? There is no foot traffic on it but its so sunny there. Sould have lots of outdoor cafes lining that part. On the whole the Square works really well- hate the GREY tiles.

I think from what I have seen it will eventually look great. There are a few buildings which will really change the complexion of the square dramatically. What is happening with the Government Life building?:)

The view from the spire of the Cathedral. The new Club Tower will be a 300 metres down Worcester Street just past the Clarendon which will partly obscure it. The City Council Headquarters will be directly being the Clarendon. Oldish photo, just to the left of the telecom building (sand coloured building) is the newly completed Ibis Hotel now stands.
http://www.firstclasstravelgoods.com/biketrip/Christchurch13.jpg

I'm loving these little updates and ditties Mr Chippy :banana:

The view from the spire of the Cathedral. The new Club Tower will be a 300 metres down Worcester Street just past the Clarendon which will partly obscure it. The City Council Headquarters will be directly being the Clarendon. Oldish photo, just to the left of the telecom building (sand coloured building) is the newly completed Ibis Hotel now stands.
http://www.firstclasstravelgoods.com/biketrip/Christchurch13.jpg

This picture fills me with saddness and joy for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the ugly telecom building - they could have come with something better.

Secondly, the buildings you have mentioned to be built - are going to really help progress the skyline and street scape of the the city.

Thirdly, the Square needs so much more work doing on it - colour, water, shopping.

Fourthly, it was really sad the Avon appartments did not get built on the Holy Grail site. It was going to be about 14 (the CHC magic number :nuts:) stories high and would have been in front of the Clarendon Building.

Finaly, just in this picture alone there is tons of potential :banana:

Would it ever be a possibility to demolish the Telecom & or ANZ buildings?

Would it ever be a possibility to demolish the Telecom & or ANZ buildings?

Maybe some strategically shot fireworks would do the job. The ANZ Bank deserves a lightning strike. I really hate it and the telecom building (a major disappointment) as well. Thankfully IBIS covered the back of telecom-jesus that was a mess.

Christchurch is a stunning city anyway, regardless of some of the eyesoars in the innercity. I am curious to know about whether the tram station has been fully completed or not. I can remember not so long ago it was only partly developed.:ohno:

^^ Is that the Cathedral Junction your talking about? If so yep she been up and running for a while. Looks good upmarket area despite the C1 construction going on just next door. I laughed when I was told this area used to be called Little Bosnia before the development.

Maybe some strategically shot fireworks would do the job. The ANZ Bank deserves a lightning strike. I really hate it and the telecom building (a major disappointment) as well. Thankfully IBIS covered the back of telecom-jesus that was a mess.

Yeah that was god aweful that was! I think people generally hate both of these buildings, the square would be a thousand times nicer without them.

[QUOTE=Milan Luka;17819446I laughed when I was told this area used to be called Little Bosnia before the development.[/QUOTE]

It was pretty shocking from what I can remember, one of Christchurch's treasured urban wastelands.

Yeah that was god aweful that was! I think people generally hate both of these buildings, the square would be a thousand times nicer without them.



It was pretty shocking from what I can remember, one of Christchurch's treasured urban wastelands.

For years it was just empty - horrid, horrid, horrid.

Hey can anyone else remember when that site use to be the Cinerama Theatre. The screen was huge in this wonderful neo-classical building. It's where Star Wars was first screened. I remember going -will never, never forget it!! Dad was just loving it!!!

The square is going to look quite different with some of these new developments being completed. Are they keeping the dog house, or have the dozers gone through it yet? C1 is near the tramstop, now I can picture it.

Does anybody have any info on the north west corner? That cinema was demolished about 8 weeks ago and the site is vacant- no sign of work. No plans have been released either i think? The Government Life building if thats what its called should be demolished too. I think this would be a good spot for ground floor retail then a 4/5 story apartment building. Nothing too large on the north side so we keep our sun.

There's a render of the new building on site at the old Tivoli theatre, looks pretty nice too, glass, 6 ish stories...

Does anybody have any info on the north west corner? That cinema was demolished about 8 weeks ago and the site is vacant- no sign of work. No plans have been released either i think? The Government Life building if thats what its called should be demolished too. I think this would be a good spot for ground floor retail then a 4/5 story apartment building. Nothing too large on the north side so we keep our sun.
I think this is the site you mention. Retail and office.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w54/Mikecnz/DSC_0040.jpg

Foundation work at Novotel
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w54/Mikecnz/DSC_0277-3.jpg

The government life building still appears to be there. If I am to go by that picture a few threads ago. The tiling in the square looks quite good. Curious to know your views on the chalise.

Love the Chalice.

Chalice works for me too. Always liked it but now its growing on me more. All for public art. Tourists seem to like it too.

IMO I reckon that the Chalice is plenty good.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1895/squaregt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Heres the square today. Thats the C1 in the background. The Novotel will be situated on the Square but just to the left of were you see C1, they were busy clearing the site some more today.

...what a wonderful sight to see height breaking through the CHC skyline. This is just the start of the cluster of buildings going up or to be planned :banana:

i know few people will agree with me but i honestly think the way to make the square good again (because its a hole now, there were complaints from tourists in The Press last year, for christs sake, about how utter rubbish it was) is to go back to the 60's.... put a smaller road back through it infront of the cathedral and another around the south east corner... itll bring hustle and bustle back and half the space today isnt even used except by dickheads and hobbos.

So why? Look at photos of the square from the early 1970's right back to the day of the tram... the square has a unique look and feel to it, much more european and the pedestrian bits are all covered by trees (which is great and not so bland as today). I think its a better atmosphere than today and is something about christchurchs character we have lost. The redevelopments of the mid 1070's were great as it complimented the squares purpose very well... until the 1990's... now its purpose is lost and it has little 'feel' to it. perhaps going back is the best way forward? Dont judge before you imagine it! Just think, because my opinion is that there is too much space these days in the square, for the purpose that it serves in 2008.

I agree with you up to a point. I don't think the road in front of the Cathedral is a good idea. I feel it would split the pedestrian space and would be abused even more by dickhead boy racers and hoons.

The Square needs to be a destination as you rightly said Sensy. I remember when I was young (back in the 70's and 80's) all the picture theatres were in the square, the place was humming. My mum and dad, grandparents all talked of the Square as a place to go for entertainment.

I think we need more European type thinking - resturants, outdoor orchestras, theatres, etc etc to try and liven it up. The best thing would be if the CCC were based there, but they are not going to be.

The Square desperately needs water and greenery in it. I really liked the idea of it reflecting the 4 seasons by having the plantings and art work changed 4 times a year.

The Square needs to be alive 24/7........

http://library.christchurch.org.nz/Heritage/Photos/Disc2/IMG0002.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0094.jpg

The new Novotel is going to look really good here and the old Warners building will be in it's full glory once the frontage is all restored to its orginal. Nice area for outdoor eating and dinning as well. :lol:

Another picture of the Square taken from the net. Shows the Chalice which really looks good at night. No idea what the event was, to be honest things like this are a dime a dozen in the Square which is a good thing of course.

http://www.rixyl.com/albums/nzAbelTasmanR0405/christchurchSquare_3398.sized.jpg

How amazing it would be if all those old buildings surrounding the cathedral still remained? Amazing.....

http://library.christchurch.org.nz/Heritage/Photos/Disc2/IMG0002.jpg

..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:..:ohno:...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0094.jpg
OMG! WOW! What is that statue in the middle? What is it supposed to represent? Christianity? lol Sorry for my Ignorance

The formal part of the square works fine...
hthttp://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0116.jpgtp://

The open area in front of the Cathedral is a rarther undefined space, I would demolish the police station and replace it with bandstand facing the Chalice ( which I like ) then this large open area would be ideal for "events", concerts ,plays etc. The Chalice I would surround with a"water feature" ( including fountains ), and put in more movable planters.
htthttp://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0115.jpgp://

htthttp://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0086.jpgp://

The fast food sheds must go, they are not inkeeping with the square............

http:http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0088.jpg//

More seating and restaurants around the periphery would be far better than the "tacky" sheds.

Ah I agree with all your comments Woody. May I humbly welcome you a senior member of The Christchurch City Council. No, mayor!

just an observation from an outsider, your square looks like it needs some half indoor/outdoor cafes with some alfresco tables. I know it may get cold in winter, but in Melbourne it gets cold yet there are so many outdoor cafes with shades and those gas heating stands to keep people happy

^^ very much so. If all of us can see it needs some creative tweaking why can the powers that be not?

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2008_020908newzealand0094.jpg
OMG! WOW! What is that statue in the middle? What is it supposed to represent? Christianity? lol Sorry for my Ignorance

This is the cities main WW 1&2 war memorial. I don't have the info to had - it's at home and I'm in Oxford at the moment, but it is based on the standard Empire war memorial cross you would see all over France, Belgium, UK, Aus, Canada etc. The cross represents the ultimate sign of Sacrafice (Jesus dying on the Cross). The Angel figure is that of breaking the sword of war. The sitting woman below is Sacrafice . The other two standing women are Truth and Justice. The two standing male figures are Youth and Loyalty (I think).

Plans were drawn up to have a reflective pool of rememberance flanked by gardens each side reflecting the four seasons. This was drawn up when the council got a lot of flack for the sterile nature of the Square...we are still waiting for it and many other wonderful ideas to come about.

I agree totally with what Woody has said about the Square. The biggest thing is that it needs a good water feature. I like the idea of the chalice being part of that :)

i reeeeeeeaally dont like the movable planters... i think they look awful. too tacky and too flimsy looking. I think larger, non-movable, weird shaped gardens in strategic places would be better... i also like woodys idea of surrounding the chalice with a water feature, something i think should have been obvious when they built the thing.

I still like my idea of bringing back some roading... narrower than before (there was a road PLUS bus lanes!) but im sure most would disagree... maybe i should get some talent so i could draw what i see in my head?

^^ I agree with you on everything Sensy except the road option.

Perhaps we should start lobbying Mayor Parker - In fact, we should invite him onto the Christchurch threads :banana: OMG imagine what Cartel would do :lol: It would be out and out :bash::bash: but we would get things done around the city :banana:

I still like my idea of bringing back some roading... narrower than before (there was a road PLUS bus lanes!) but im sure most would disagree... maybe i should get some talent so i could draw what i see in my head?

One day I plan to get around to sketching out my design. I always favoured putting the road back as well, but thought that was the sort of crazy-talk I should keep quiet around here (especially considering my car-nut status). I want to bring North and South Colombo together into a cohesive-feeling street (via a road, lighting, and some other design indicators) - just one with a lot of good stuff in the middle.

One day I plan to get around to sketching out my design. I always favoured putting the road back as well, but thought that was the sort of crazy-talk I should keep quiet around here (especially considering I'm my car-nut status). I want to bring North and South Colombo together into a cohesive-feeling street (via a road, lighting, and some other design indicators) - just one with a lot of good stuff in the middle.

you know, linking north and south colombo back up, with something truly special could lead to a 'national road' of some sort... would be a great place to have it, in front of one of the nations most recognisable landmarks... just a thought...

im inspired! im gonna try draw something and post it on here in 5 years time when i actually finish it

you know, linking north and south colombo back up, with something truly special could lead to a 'national road' of some sort... would be a great place to have it, in front of one of the nations most recognisable landmarks... just a thought...

They'll have to let cars drive the length of it again. I don't care if driving Colombo is rarely the best way to get to where you're going, it's the main street, and it's something you want to show visitors in your car, or have visitors in rental cars drive down so they can view it. (Putting aside how easy that little bit of civil disobedience is, for a second.) Traffic management should come second for this one street.


On a semi-related note: is the council's strategy for Colombo between the Square and Moorhouse to force all Southbound traffic to exit the street left/East except on St Asaph, and all Northbound traffic to exit the street left/West except on Lichfield?

From my picture gallery, I can see that when travelling South, the two non-one way streets - Hereford and Tuam - both don't allow right/West turns. When travelling North, Hereford doesn't allow right/East turns, and I'm not sure about Tuam, but if it didn't also, it would complete the logic.

^^ i think you mean tuam and lichfield streets. hereford is two way.

They'll have to let cars drive the length of it again. I don't care if driving Colombo is rarely the best way to get to where you're going, it's the main street, and it's something you want to show visitors in your car, or have visitors in rental cars drive down so they can view it.

I dont think this will have any positive aspect. Just because something is a main street shouldn't mean you have to drive down it though. On a visit to London you would be mad to do a Sunday drive on Oxford Street, even in Sydney I would strongly suggest people keep their cars away from George Street.

Having a drive down a main retail thoroughfare just to be nosey isnt a great idea I reckon. It has a negative impact on the buses (Colombo St and Cathedral Square are car parks at the best of times), the air quality and general pedestrian friendly feel the council are trying to promote is undermined. And if you are just driving through and not going to stop and spend some money you arent benfitting anyone and creating a pain for those who are on legitimate business.

Im not for vehicles on Cathedral Square other than buses, cabs, service vehicles and those going to the hotels. And despite the traffic rules there which no one pays attention to I think it should be made harder for the general public to drive around it.

I dont think this will have any positive aspect. Just because something is a main street shouldn't mean you have to drive down it though. On a visit to London you would be mad to do a Sunday drive on Oxford Street, even in Sydney I would strongly suggest people keep their cars away from George Street.

Having a drive down a main retail thoroughfare just to be nosey isnt a great idea I reckon. It has a negative impact on the buses (Colombo St and Cathedral Square are car parks at the best of times), the air quality and general pedestrian friendly feel the council are trying to promote is undermined. And if you are just driving through and not going to stop and spend some money you arent benfitting anyone and creating a pain for those who are on legitimate business.

Im not for vehicles on Cathedral Square other than buses, cabs, service vehicles and those going to the hotels. And despite the traffic rules there which no one pays attention to I think it should be made harder for the general public to drive around it.

Good call Milan Luka... Actually, I think it is illegal for non-PT vehicles to use London's Oxford Street.

What will be interesting is that when the council eventually does away with all the one-way streets, what will happen to all the traffic that uses the one-ways to get around the CDB, and through it?

While the one-ways do contribute to making the CBD less friendly for pedestrians and retailers, they do improve traffic somewhat thanks to the ability to sync the traffic lights up on a 'green wave'.

Having traffic snarled up, as in Manchester/Lichfield and Colombo/Lichfield definately doesn't improve the central city atmosphere, but nor does having no traffic which gives the feel of the place being dead. That's why New Regent street is better with having a tram, than it would be with nothing. This also is the reason for the council promoting 'slow roads' through the city mall like that in New Brighton - it encourages a small amount of local traffic but not the thousands of 'passing through' traffic like the one ways do.

The council reckon that the four avenues have plenty of capacity to cope with the most traffic that would migrate from the one-ways. But I don't think so... Moorhouse ave in the late afternoon around the Lincoln Road area is a joke.

The council reckon that the four avenues have plenty of capacity to cope with the most traffic that would migrate from the one-ways. But I don't think so... Moorhouse ave in the late afternoon around the Lincoln Road area is a joke.

Allow me to go off topic here. Its like Christchurch has suddenly plonked an extra 20000 cars on the road in the last couple of years.

I had no idea how bad Moorhouse/Lincoln area gets in the afternoons. Last week had dinner at some friends out in Halswell, living central city I thought to go along Hagley and then Lincoln. I was blown away that it took me 24 minutes to drive the 1km along Hagley avenue. Dont even get me started on the Lincoln Road experience.

And you are correct about the snarl ups on Colombo and Manchester Street. These roads I just avoid, high vehicle and pedestrian volumes- coupled with bad Cantabrian driving practices (the worst in the western world Im sure!:lol:) and lots of jaywalking make it no fun to use these roads. And also to walk along at times.

^^^^:bash::bash:Bad traffic - horrid.

When we were home Christmas before last - we were shocked at the Moorehouse Ave/Blenhiem Rd traffic. It was bumper to bumper, stop start - not good for the city image at all. It was like being back in Hertfordshire :ohno:

Walked past the Novotel site today and the crane base has been installed...at last. That can only mean the crane tower must be going up in a week or two :banana:. While the development is at least 6 months behind schedule, the building will make quite an impact on the east side of the square.

It's been a long time coming - but it will look good and finish of that part of the square that has been a mess for a long time. Then they can start thinking about some of the other corners as well!!

Can't wait to see the pictures of this one rising out of the ground and the historic facade of the Warners Hotel returned to it's former splendor :)

^^ Good stuff. Mattbennett90210 :lol: posted a few shots of this in the development thread. Be good to see this one rising too. And for once I am happy with the height, a structure too tall just behind the Cathedrals spire wouldnt be appropriate.

I will miss the beer garden that sat on this site but. Not the most rockin of places but an excellent little spot for a couple of after work Friday drinks on a warm summers evening.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9201/square1dk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Nothing to report, just wanted to add this photo taken earlier today. Grey grey clouds over Lyttelton Harbour just past the Port Hills but nice and sunny (albeit) very chilly in the city.

A little pic from about an hour ago. Freaking cold out there tonight.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3175/nightsquare1sn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

How many projects are being built around the square? By the look of it the square will be a real hive of activity within the next years especially if the press site gets redeveloped.

Just went throuh the thread....some of the heritage buildings are awesome, but the overall square is disappointing...

Theres fricking cars in the middle of a square?
Some of the buildings are tacky....

Doesnt look good IMO! I thoought it would look quite european and be lined with cafes...But no!

the artwork and statues represent a european style city...but more could be done!!


Does the city Council have any plans for this??

You would have thunk the square would be a real hive of dining activity. Yet its not. The best area for anything like this is the southern side (the bit that gets the sun). There is the old Post Office, OGB and also Regent Building which are great buildings which have Starbucks etc. The remainder of the southern side is ANZ, BNZ buildings, built a while ago when dead street frontage was thought of as being a cool thing.

I remember ex mayor Moore saying he would like to see BNZ open up space for retail or eating on their Cathedral Square frontage. To be fair, there is a Telecom store there now. (!!!!!)

Bring on flowers, cafes the whole thing. The square would suit it. They would probably only be tourist cafes (as seen in other cities) so shouldnt have a negative impact on most of the cities foody places.

Dont hold your breath but.

How many projects are being built around the square? By the look of it the square will be a real hive of activity within the next years especially if the press site gets redeveloped.

I believe The Press site is being redeveloped (to an extent) as I have a chum who is working on PM with arrow international as we speak...

Wish I could give more details! :cheers:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/301.jpg?t=1228476706

It was a really nor'westery day and all the small jets were flying over the city to make their approach on the nor'west runway.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/DavidEugene/300.jpg?t=1228476899

I hate those fast food vans :ohno:

The Chalice could do with water around it I think.

^^ That would be a great idea to turn the Chalice into a centre piece for some kind of fountain!

Something or other going on in the Square today. A large area immediately infront of the old GPO roped off. Does anybody know anything about this? Temporary building for the winter festival I think?

I think the council might be building a giant ice dome for the winter festival

^^ An ice dome? Wow, that should be pretty cool.

I knew somebody would be up with the play, thanks frew!

http://www.artsfestival.co.nz/show/3/tv-one-ice-dome.aspx

Theres a website link. I'm still new to this so can't really upload pictures, but they've got one there

^^^^

http://www.artsfestival.co.nz/show-assets/ice-dome/banner.jpg

Looks like a large Dutch Cap if you ask me........:lol:

Silly twits put the picture in a summer scene - there are leaves on the trees.........not very winter.

And wouldnt you know it. Less than 24 hours later and its already taking shape. Looks more like an igloo than an ice dome. Are we still allowed to say igloo?

^^ :lol: I think the PC term is 'Innovative Inuit Ice Enclave'....

I see more and more people are writing into The Press complaining about the awful state the Square is becoming.

I wonder if they (CCC) will decide once and for all to get the place looked at and dealt with in the most appropriate way.

Lots of people are wanting traffic to move back into the place - but I don't think that is the answer.

Any ideas.......................??????

Just nicked this photo from physicschick.com

Thank you physicschick, good effort.

http://www.physicschick.com/pole/20051122/05_cathedral_square.jpg

Anybody like to comment? I just dont like the telecom building-slate colored one to the left. I also wish the south side of the square was littered in cafes. Its the perfect sun drenched spot. And Davee I dont mind those fast food vans. Sure they are unappealing aesthetically however the do add a little extra life to the square. Plus ive had some bitchin' kebabs and Bramborák from them.

Did anyone not see the Ice dome?
I just opened this thread and saw the 'render', but no actual photos.
here is a photo of it:
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6931/icedomeshrink.jpg
By mattbennett (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/mattbennett), shot with Canon PowerShot SX10 IS (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+SX10+IS&make=Canon) at 2009-09-24
and try spot it in this one:)
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6809/icedome2shrink.jpg
By mattbennett (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/mattbennett), shot with Canon PowerShot SX10 IS (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+SX10+IS&make=Canon) at 2009-09-24

I really should go in one day with my tripod and take some decent reflection photos.:)

you guys still have Starbucks? Whys that

They have a stronger branding and marketshare in NZ than they ever had in Oz. They opened on Kiwi shores (North Island at least) about 7 years prior to the first Aussie store. Dont think they suffered here as much as they did over your way.

im sure theres even a Starbucks thread in Kiwiscrapers.

I think the Starbucks on Cathedral Square was the 1st Christchurch one, opened 2001. And as you can expect theres another 1 block south and another 1 block north.

:bash: I walked through the square today and only just realized how damn disappointed in it I am! :ohno: The ANZ/IBM, Telecom buildings and the Police kiosk HAVE to go. It could be the most wonderful place, but it seriously needs help, why are the council not focusing on developing the heart of the city? It should be top priority. :bash: So sad that most of the beautiful old buildings have been destroyed over the years to make way for all that crap. :(

:bash: I walked through the square today and only just realized how damn disappointed in it I am! :ohno: The ANZ/IBM, Telecom buildings and the Police kiosk HAVE to go. It could be the most wonderful place, but it seriously needs help, why are the council not focusing on developing the heart of the city? It should be top priority. :bash: So sad that most of the beautiful old buildings have been destroyed over the years to make way for all that crap. :(

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Cathedral Square tree to be removed today19 November 2009

http://resources.ccc.govt.nz/images/MR-CathedralSquareTree.jpg

One of the 89-year-old lime trees in Cathedral Square which surround the statue of Christchurch’s founder John Robert Godley is being removed today (19 November).

The 20-metre tall tree went into serious decline last year and has died, says City Council Acting Transport and Greenspace Manager Malcolm Park.

“The lime is a notable tree within the City Plan and will be replaced next May-June.”

He says Council is currently working to source the largest tree possible to replace the lime.

And more greenery please.

Thinking about it I would also love to see more light in the square at night. A display like Adelaide Rundle Mall light wall would be magic.

Unfortunately I can imagine the hoi polloi saying its not in keeping with the founding fathers vision and would be innapropriate adjacent to the Cathedral.

Downtowns need flashing pretty lights.

And more greenery please.

Thinking about it I would also love to see more light in the square at night. A display like Adelaide Rundle Mall light wall would be magic.

Unfortunately I can imagine the hoi polloi saying its not in keeping with the founding fathers vision and would be innapropriate adjacent to the Cathedral.

Downtowns need flashing pretty lights.

Luka, agree with all you say, The pics of Liverpool show some fine examples of "feature lighting". I recall only a few years back, when darkness fell, apart from office lights most of the city centre buildings all but disappeared. Now after a vast regeneration and a programme of lighting up the principle buildings, the city looks brilliant at night.........

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2009%20pics/17nov09ChavassesParkinLiverpoolOne.jpg
The wheel is just being erected for the Christmas period only.

This building is part of the University campus, the whole building changes colour, red,green, yellow and blue and is situated only 50m from the Metropolitan Cathedral which you can see in the second pic......

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2009%20pics/image-1-for-the-university-of-liver.jpg http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2009%20pics/image-2-for-the-university-of-liver.jpg

The other Cathedral ( Anglican ) is also a fine sight at night.........

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2009%20pics/waterfrontatnight8-8-09024.jpg

The rebuilt retail area (called Liverpool One ) has some very funky lighting.....

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/2009%20pics/LoneQE23-10-08246.jpg


I agree with Davee, the square needs a water feature, more greenery and a dramatic lighting scheme that should high light the low heritage buildings while trying to mask the rather brutal high rise, which seem to dominate the square.

Fantastic work being done in Liverpool Woody - thanks for that - both you and Luka have summed up perfectly what needs to be done.

Other things that should happen are:

Bann all parking in the main body of the Square and AROUND the Cathedral.

The War Memorial is way to jammed up next to the Cathedral now the Visitor Centre is there - it's getting treated badly by people climbing on it. I would move it to where Godleys statue is in front of the Cathedral and move Godley to where the memorial is (that's where he use to be).

Lots of flowers and greenery - different to Victoria Square though.

Encourage cafe's and eating place at ground level and higher up with good vista's of the Square.

Music and entertainment in the Square - similar to St Mark's in Venice.

Bann all private cars from moving through the Square.

Longer term - get rid of some of the CHEAP and NARSTY Buildings that surround the Square - they are horrid and SHAMEFUL - when you consider what use to be there, it is absolutely CRIMINAL what they have done.

What do you think they are trying to achieve with the variety of pots and plants they have here?

http://www.pbase.com/enigma35/image/122269475/original.jpg

.........lets just dump some greenry (cheaper looking stuff the better) in the very heart of the city..........nice.........

For a new development, Accour have been very good to let the builders get away with the drain pipe on the old Warners Building..........perhaps it's there to say it's old...........

They do look like house plants don't they? Pathetic ones at that

http://www.pbase.com/enigma35/image/122269848.jpg

With very interesting window dressing.........

Those windows look down directly onto the 1st Four Ships of the Canterbury Association Memorial in the Square..........:ohno::ohno:

They do look like house plants don't they? Pathetic ones at that

Yip.......look at the way they are placed, look at the state of the planters........

It's all this that makes the place look run down and sloppy.......it's first impressions and this is in the 'heart' of the city.

In all of Sydney and Craigs WONDERFUL pictures of AKL and Wellington.....I just don't see the sloppyness that CHC dishes up........I know I'm looking harder.......but it's a city eat city world out there and I don't see CHC being listed as one of the most livable in the world. Starting with the small things my help a little though ;)

It's all this that makes the place look run down and sloppy.......it's first impressions and this is in the 'heart' of the city.

In all of Sydney and Craigs WONDERFUL pictures of AKL and Wellington.....I just don't see the sloppyness that CHC dishes up........I know I'm looking harder.......but it's a city eat city world out there and I don't see CHC being listed as one of the most livable in the world. Starting with the small things my help a little though ;)
AFAIK, those Mercer Quality of Life surveys have a minimum population size (I'd guess 1 million) with national capitals included regardless of size - the surveys aimed at execs/diplomats/professionals offered international transfers in their job etc. They can't compare every 300,000+ urban area in the world. Auckland and Wellington are not beating Chch on liveability; they just get to be included, that's all.

Thanks for that Rooty.............by the way, what does AFAIK mean??????

Thanks for that Rooty.............by the way, what does AFAIK mean??????
As far as I know.

As far as I know.

x :)

nice. :)

The Press

Christchurch's premier retailer Richard Ballantyne would like to see a smaller Cathedral Square with more cars allowed in.

"The Square needs to be looked at. It's far too big for the size of the city,' Ballantyne says.

The earthquake and the need to rebuild provide a unique opportunity to question what Christchurch has and how the CBD and its surroundings can be rejuvenated, he says.

The Square was not designed as a square originally but as a "circus", a large circle, along the lines of those in England.

Respondents on The Press website this morning are almost evenly split between those supporting Ballantyne and those who strongly disagree with his views.

An unscientific poll on press.co.nz currently has 63 per cent in favour of keeping the Square the way it is, with 31 per cent agreeing with Ballantyne that it should be shrunk.


"The problem is not the square, but what it has in it" ( or 'doesn't have in it at the moment) , "You can always take these spaces away but you can never put them back in," wrote 'Dudley'.

Paul said: "The square does not need more cars, it needs more people.''

But 'Jimbob' said Ballantyne was right: "Without cars it becomes home to the huge numbers of losers, waifs and strays and is just a great big grey space. ''

Geoff also said Ballantyne was right. "He is correct to raise this issue as anyone who frequents the CBD and the Square would understand the city is going backwards and has been for years."

Ballantyne, managing director of Ballantynes, at the centre of the Christchurch city shopping precinct, says the inner city "has been getting more and more fragile year on year".

"The challenge is how do we get people back into the city.

"I think we have to stop a while and ask if the transport plan is correct for the city. Is the bus interchange correct for the new city? Here's a chance to start asking these things to see if we had the right plans in place before the earthquake."

He would like to see a road closer to the Cathedral allowing slow traffic through and more planting areas. The atmosphere of say a smaller, more intimate Square would be preferable where cafes and restaurants populate the ground floors of buildings with offices above, though the buildings should be low rise.

The current design of the Square cuts the CBD in half and is "one of the biggest mistakes made in urban traffic planning".

Victoria Square is cleverly designed, green and easy to access and people enjoy the space, he says.

Access into the city and convenient, cheap strategically placed car parking for people who are coming into the city for a couple of hours or working in the city are critical issues, he says.

A challenge will be to decide how big the central business district should be. He would like to see the CBD area contract and the powers- that-be have a clear plan for it. He envisages the area between the CBD and the four avenues offering the chance to be creative with urban design and establish inner- city communities.

Development outside the four avenues had been much easier not only because the land was cheaper but also because weak planning laws resulted in developers being able to "get what they want" and Christchurch becoming one of the most shopped cities in New Zealand. That ease of development was also happening with office space in the suburbs. The overall result was that people had been drawn away from the inner city.

The earthquake reinforced that in the first couple of weeks when people were not coming into town, he said.

Ballantynes re-opened on the Friday after the quake and trade had been rebuilding well. It coincided with the department store's promotions around spring fashions and Cup and Show week.

Ballantynes had been approached by hundreds of customers for valuations on china and glassware broken in the quake and those had been done at no charge, he said.

Before the quake trade was nudging ahead of the same time in 2009. Post-quake trade had been quiet for a time but was building momentum going into Cup and Show week.

"We are starting to experience slightly improved conditions but it's still fragile," Ballantyne sad.

I'm glad he's stirred this up again, I think the Square is drastically wrong. Saying that, I don't want to see more cars in it - I personally want to see Less!

I think filling the square with more cars is a big mistake but it definately could do with a remodeling. "More people friendly NOT more car friendly".

The Press

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1288066987/026/4274026.jpg

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1288088126/201/4275201.jpg

A leading Christchurch retailer's proposal to downsize Cathedral Square has divided Press readers but won backing from city leaders.

Ballantynes managing director Richard Ballantyne has called for slow-traffic lanes through the pedestrian areas and extra planting to make Cathedral Square feel more "intimate", with cafes and restaurants spilling on to the footpaths.

The plans have been backed by Wigram MP Jim Anderton and Central City Business Association manager Paul Lonsdale.

Anderton said the Christchurch City Council should "take heed of our most successful city retailer and take careful note of what he has to say".

"The council should take on board Ballantyne's views and include them in any plans to rejuvenate the heart of our city before it disintegrates any further," he said.

Lonsdale said the Square looked like it "has been designed by a committee".

"Cathedral Square is a bit of a cold, grey slate area," he said. "It is essentially quite a large space. They use it for big events and that is quite popular, but how many of those are there a year and do we need that much space? It could be done differently and could still be used for events, like Victoria Square."

Readers commenting on press.co.nz yesterday were divided over the proposals.

"The Square is a well-meant but crowded hodge-podge. Open it up more. It's a grand formal space; let it show," wrote Ken Taylor.

Geoff supported Ballantyne's ideas.

"He is correct to raise this issue as anyone who frequents the CBD and the Square would understand the city is going backwards and has been for years."

The architect heading up the city's post-earthquake design team, Ian Athfield, has also criticised the layout of Cathedral Square.

He said it was "absurd" that hundreds of buses moved through the Square every day, but only 20 stopped there.

Athfield said changes to the Square's layout meant people crossed it as quickly as they could.

The Square was once a bustling centre, with trams, buses, cars and people crossing in all directions. A road in front of Christ Church Cathedral was closed in 1965 and one in front of the post office building was closed in 1972. The area was made pedestrian-friendly in a redevelopment completed in 1974.

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1288123964/263/4276263.jpg

The Press

Christchurch needs to speed up changes to its restrictive planning rules, says the architect heading the city's post-earthquake design team.

Ian Athfield told the property industry in Christchurch yesterday that planning regulations were frustratingly hard to change.

He gave the example of rules on how far buildings were set back from the road, some of which "restrict good development and create a poor streetscape".

He said bus routes were threatening businesses.

"You look at Sydenham and those quite lovely shops which have had bus lanes put in front of them. Car parks are absolutely essential to those shops," he said.

"Once you've got a rule there, it is very, very difficult to change."

Athfield, who was raised in Christchurch and now works in Wellington, was chosen to co-ordinate a team of architects and designers preparing ideas and designs for rebuilding the city.

He said Christchurch City Council staff had told him changes in the city plan could be six years away.

"We said we needed them in six months," Athfield said.

"Somehow we have to start changing the way we think about planning and realise a lot of our rules are reactionary.

"This city, I can tell you, isn't going to work unless we have the city and the people working together."

Athfield said the design team was looking at urban design, land use, housing, heritage, road transport and infrastructure.

To encourage people to visit and live in the central city, Christchurch needed better parking, slower traffic, a more inviting Cathedral Square and inner-city supermarkets, he said.

Setting city limits would mean a better city with less sprawl, while good urban design would bring public and private spaces together.

As an inner city resident Im still amazed that we dont have at least one supermarket in the cbd, even a New World Metro-is that too much to ask? While we have a million Night and Days and 24 whatever its called, I dont usually appreciate having to pay $4 for a litre of milk.

So yes please a supermarket is one of the things on my wish list. The square would be a good a place for it as anywhere else.

And please can we do something with the street frontage of the BNZ. Its north facing, gets lots of sun and is quiet. Dead as. We really need something there.

There is a New World off Durham st and Pak N Save on Moorhouse ave.

^^ Correct thats where I shop. Although they are on this side of Moorhouse that doesnt cut it with me. No one lives within cooee of those supermarkets. I would reckon most people who buy there drive there.

If I wanna shop, as in buy my weekly supply of groceries, I gotta use the car. I would prefer anyday being able to leave the car underground, and walk 2 blocks to a proper supermarket. I could handle that with 6 or so bags of groceries.

I see what you mean now, Milan. One is fairly restricted in the heart of the city if they don't have a car. Anyhow there is plenty of vacant sites around now that could be used for a new supermarket there is so many to count on googles image of CHCH one large site is the old king edward baracks on Cashel st how many more years is that going to be vacant another 10 perhaps!

That would be the perfect spot for me! But King Edward Barracks now holds a mini post office and all the boxes from the GPO were relocated too. The car parking area has been upgraded (fenced off) and now houses all the cars for City Council Employees.

I still maintain the Square would be a great place for a supermarket. North west corner, it can border Chancery Lane.

Think about it, how many people live within 500 metres of that. A fair few I reckon. Thats not even counting all the hotel guests etc.

Slightly off topic but when I was sent to Wlg for work, just a few hundred feet from my hotel was the Willis St Metro. How convenient was that! Come on Chc, I still cant believe we dont have this here yet.

i just come back Vietnam. 9 to see this pics.Thanks

I change my mind on the square road, after seeing (well, in a photo) Wellington's Manners Mall redevelopment and realising this would be an even greater travesty: one huge jammed wall of busses blocking the view of the cathedral.

I change my mind on the square road, after seeing (well, in a photo) Wellington's Manners Mall redevelopment and realising this would be an even greater travesty: one huge jammed wall of busses blocking the view of the cathedral.

I've just seen the same pictures Rooty and I agree - that road just does not work and if something like that was put in the Square again - it would be a disaster .... :ohno:

I would like to see the big red buses back in the square. I remember as a kid catching the bus into town with my mum and brother from Woolston (we could catch either "square" or "church corner". Those were the days when the city was BUSY! we would get off at the beginning of High st and walk into town. There were shops all the way and mum would do all the dept stores (DIC Beaths / Calder McKay / Farmers Haywrights - not Ballentynes we were too poor). Our treat was going on the escalators, going up the cathedral and having something to eat in this little tearooms my mum liked on Armagh st. We would the go back to the square to catch the bus home. All the buses left from the Square and went clockwise around it. And it always seemed so busy. There was my favourite record store near the Charlton or Westend theatre that I would browse in till our bus came.... those were the days...

Well it wasn't the way I thought we would get a new take on Cathedral Square - but I really hope that what comes about in this space will go to inspire the rest of the city. I think some big hitting international thinkers could help come up with some thing for this important space.

^^ Yeah.

Everyone still being shellshocked I dont think anyones really thought that far ahead tbh. It seems some of the uglier or lets say more characterless buildings in the square remain- BNZ, Telecom, ANZ, Anthony Harpers.

Still with the empty spaces left there's plenty of scope for something beautiful. Even though plenty of spaces around the city will probably stall, getting bogged down in resource consent and penny pinching, Im absolutely certain there'll be an absolutely fantastic job done of the Square.

No doubt Architecture Schools the world over will start drawing up brilliant plans soon.

Visiting Christchurch before the quake, Cathedral Square reminded me of an East German city that was badly bombed during the war and even more badly rebuilt afterwards.

I also got the feeling Cathedral Square doesn't work well as a civic space in its present form, and needs restructuring by a landscaper of global credentials.

When I returned home I made a point of looking at Victorian-era photos of the Square and was surprised to see the surrounding architecture was never that great, and the Square always looked awkward.

The hulking 70s/80s building next to the Cathedral (don't know what it is) is massively unsympathetic: it reminds me of the police building in the NeuMarket in Dresden which they recently demolished to improve that public space.

Don't hold out much hope for the future. Postwar NZ architecture seemed to be a great way to get depressed: I guess anyone with talent must leave. When I read Duncan Fallowell's book I practically wept in agreement. Even large buildings seem to express a kind of bungalow provincialism in mentality that disallows style, panache, or classical reference, and where no one is allowed by the application of bold architectural gesture, to dream of something greater.

The people in Christchurch are understandably busy with other matters, so I'll take it upon myself to thank you for your overwhelmingly supportive and constructive (and might I add necessary) post.

Not that I intend to prove your point by getting defensive about any criticism, I just think it's poor timing.

No-one in Christchurch is unaware of the general uninspiring nature of the Square. It's always been a curiosity of the city that no-one has been able to get it quite right. As it's the city's public space, I think it's always been a bit of a case of having too many stakeholders and ending up with a hugely vanilla result. It's been redone several times, and yet being "redone" has almost always just involved laying new pavers and adding planter boxes.

Christchurch is a lot smaller and more architecturally-conservative than Melbourne. That doesn't mean there aren't a huge amount of people in the city "dreaming of something greater".

With the agenda of the safety authorities seeming to ensure that all remaining architectural beauty must die, before any bold gesture, I think the most pressing need is that architects working in Christchurch require respect, humility, and understanding of the past, so they can reference something of the lost past to fill the gap of civic memory. NZ architects still seem to do their best to shit on the past. Classic case is Dunedin university campus, which should be like an elegant US east coast uni campus, but instead, everything built post 1900 is tacky, monstrously ugly, and an up-yours to the original exquisite neogothic buildings. But as Fallowell suggested with his scathing attack on Sir Miles Warren, perhaps the problem is the role models and professors. In one way Christchurch is actually lucky: it's been given a second chance to create an elegant post-colonial CBD. Will it blow it?

Don't hold out much hope for the future. Postwar NZ architecture seemed to be a great way to get depressed: I guess anyone with talent must leave. When I read Duncan Fallowell's book I practically wept in agreement. Even large buildings seem to express a kind of bungalow provincialism in mentality that disallows style, panache, or classical reference, and where no one is allowed by the application of bold architectural gesture, to dream of something greater.

How insensitive of you. Many share your view, not that of Cathedral Square but Federation Square - an abomination of post war architecture, a boil on the landscape. Opposing your view I in fact like all the different styles from different eras surrounding cathedral square - there are some incredibly beautiful buildings there and some represent their era i.e. "functional". I also agree that Cathedral Square needs something that pops and I believe that it will happen. Unlike Federation Square, Christchurch's square is a fresh canvas that can be moulded into something spectacular.

Many people with talent have left and many have returned to NZ with new eyes , for example, RTA STUDIO have produced some incredible buildings that have transformed landscapes and have set a new standard for others to follow.

As for Duncan Fallowell :lol: I pity the man that treats his word as gospel. The man was here in 2003 and NZ has changed a lot since he was here, hell it has changed immensely in the 5 years that I have been here. Fallowell thinks that a nude rugby calendar will make NZ a better place :lol: what does that make him ? an old pervert ? I also think that you have failed to see the irony in the book - most of it is tongue in cheek because we are not British. I am sure that you won't be so praise worthy of the man once he writes about his experiences in Australia - in fact you will not weep in agreement but in distress :lol:

Your generalisations are so broad that it can be of any country that you write of and Australia has got some monstrous post war architecture that we can not even compete with - your ignorance is mind numbing and removing those rose-tinted Aussie-Aussie-oi-oi glasses will help you see a bit clearer. Have confidence in the fact that we are not all pessimists here and we will trust in the fact that CHCH will rise again and it will be gorgeous.

Cantabrians have been through enough and deserve some respect.

You assume too much. The presumption that I don't hold the same deep reservations regarding Australian architecture, culture, or Fed Square, is completely erroneous. Insensitive? You poor blossom. And of course I have to generalise: I'm not writing a thesis. NZ has changed since Fallowell's visit in a way that negates the specific criticisms he made? Not by my judgement, and I visited last year for the second time last year to confirm my first impressions. And trust me: I was far more appreciate than the Europeans I travelled with. (e.g "Auckland is a city you need to visit to realise you didn't need to visit it." and "It's like Norway with less pretty people, and no great city within a driving days reach." So I'm quite kind. ;-) Oh, and one final thing: the attempt to mimic the NZ media and suggest that Fallowell's larky sense of sexuality made his criticisms less valid, or that wasn't deadly serious about them, is neither attractive nor perceptive.

^^ It is not important what you think or what you have heard or what you have experienced - You are insignificant.

Unfortunately traveler's can be rather scathing - "Aussies are so ugly that dingoes would rather starve" - " the guide books got the spelling of Sydney incorrect - it should be Shitney" - "Australia's mantra should be "bogan, bogan, bogan - oi oi oi" - "Melbourne is a poor man's idea of Europe" and let's not forget "Melbourne is Europe's toilet" ... I don't agree with it at all and I particularly love Australia and all that it offers, oh well.

Side note: Best of all "what is a sophisticated Australian ? ...... A kiwi" - I guess that in this case you have single handedly proven them correct :lol:

Please, everyone; refrain from personal attacks in the forum. Keep the discussion professional, and about The Square. Thank you.

Please, everyone; refrain from personal attacks in the forum. Keep the discussion professional, and about The Square. Thank you.

OMG - how exciting - a SSC god from on high! We've never had a warning like that before - have we?

OMG - how exciting - a SSC god from on high! We've never had a warning like that before - have we?

:lol:

That gave me a good chuckle. And here I thought Shreddies and coffee were going to be the height of excitement of my God-Like breakfast! :banana:

Does anyone have any links to photos on SSC of interior photos of the Christ Church Cathedral? I'm very interested in Colonial church architecture. Thanks.

^^ OMG!!!! Another visitation!!!! - Oh worshipful one, you are really getting me going here ;)

:lol:

That gave me a good chuckle. And here I thought Shreddies and coffee were going to be the height of excitement of my God-Like breakfast! :banana:

Does anyone have any links to photos on SSC of interior photos of the Christ Church Cathedral? I'm very interested in Colonial church architecture. Thanks.

I'll dig some up for you :banana::)

Thank you!!!! :okay:
Being a God, and all, I like to keep my finger firmly on the pulse of what the Churches in colonies around the world looked like. If anyone is interested I've got loads of pictures of what they look like in Toronto and Montreal in my photoblog. But, enough advertising that... back to Christchurch! ;)

Thank you!!!! :okay:
Being a God, and all, I like to keep my finger firmly on the pulse of what the Churches in colonies around the world looked like. If anyone is interested I've got loads of pictures of what they look like in Toronto and Montreal in my photoblog. But, enough advertising that... back to Christchurch! ;)

Have a great day oh worshipful one :)

Classic case is Dunedin university campus, which should be like an elegant US east coast uni campus, but instead, everything built post 1900 is tacky, monstrously ugly, and an up-yours to the original exquisite neogothic buildings.

Otago University unfortunately had its biggest building boom when brutalist-influenced buildings were all the rage. I don't think that's necessarily indicative of careless planning - they aren't poor quality buildings, just dated. We don't know whether they'll still look bad in 30 or 40 years.

I'll leave the rest of your comments alone.

Nah I read it as trolling....

Never seen the guy posting here ever before. While he might have some valid points, its didnt seem to be full of empathy.

Not great timing either.

No one in CHC is interested in what an armchair critic has to say about our city right now, especially when he seems to be bashing it. So many people still homeless. Bodies (or parts of) are still being found/returned to their families. The cbd will remain closed for months. Thousands of jobs lost. Still having to boil our water. Whole suburbs to be returned to nature. You wanna see the figures on numbers of fatal cardiac arrests we've had since Feb 22?

You are welcome to post here again OMG, but I suggest you think before you do so. Maybe you dont realize what state the city remains in, nor the hell most of its citizens are going through and will continue to go through. With that in mind you might see why no one really gives a flying fuck about your opinions on buildings in our city that no longer exist anyway.

Nah I read it as trolling....

Never seen the guy posting here ever before. While he might have some valid points, its didnt seem to be full of empathy.

Not great timing either.

No one in CHC is interested in what an armchair critic has to say about our city right now, especially when he seems to be bashing it. So many people still homeless. Bodies (or parts of) are still being found/returned to their families. The cbd will remain closed for months. Thousands of jobs lost. Still having to boil our water. Whole suburbs to be returned to nature. You wanna see the figures on numbers of fatal cardiac arrests we've had since Feb 22?

You are welcome to post here again OMG, but I suggest you think before you do so. Maybe you dont realize what state the city remains in, nor the hell most of its citizens are going through and will continue to go through. With that in mind you might see why no one really gives a flying fuck about your opinions on buildings in our city that no longer exist anyway.

I can understand the sensitivity, but does that preclude any criticism of the aesthetics of Christchurch's inner-city? If so, for how long? And who decides when it's over?

Like you said, s/he had some valid points. Aside from the older buildings, a lot of Christchurch's central city was fairly forgettable, like most cities in New Zealand with designs from the postwar era (actually, all the way up to the mid nineties really).

These opinions can be disputed in a civilised way, without all this reversion to name-calling and pettiness. This is an urban design forum and the poster's points were entirely on-topic - we're all armchair critics afterall. Why Sydney isn't banned from this forum, with yet another vitriolic outburst is beyond me.

Does anyone have any links to photos on SSC of interior photos of the Christ Church Cathedral? I'm very interested in Colonial church architecture. Thanks.

Thanks for the private message TB and for the words of encouragement... like I said, I can kick myself for not going into the churches when I was last there but I did climb the Christchurch Cathderal steeple a month before it collapsed - as promised here are the only pics that I have of the interior .... Mr KF might have more :)


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5498349375_d23648e98b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498349375/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498349375/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5498945286_e86900cf63_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498945286/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498945286/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5498945544_68a8b22840_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498945544/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498945544/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

The view from the steeple which has now collapsed:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5498945890_e53de711a6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498945890/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498945890/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5055/5498351295_af28df76fd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498351295/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498351295/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5498947082_fbf4c8a0cd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498947082/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498947082/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

Thanks for heeding my request, Syd! You have an amazing collection of photography. I knew if anyone had some pics, it would be you! :okay: Nice Colonial church..Early English Gothic style. Quite similar to the Anglican Cathedrals of the same time frame over here on this side of the pond.

Thanks for heeding my request, Syd! You have an amazing collection of photography. I knew if anyone had some pics, it would be you! :okay: Nice Colonial church..Early English Gothic style. Quite similar to the Anglican Cathedrals of the same time frame over here on this side of the pond.

You are most welcome and thanks for the compliment - I wish that I could match your urban showcase thread - you have an amazing canvas to work with :colgate:

Oooops I forgot this one ....

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5176/5498353007_1299e04a42_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498353007/)
CHRISTCHURCH 23 JAN 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyeonauckland/5498353007/) by Urban+Explorer (http://www.flickr.com/people/eyeonauckland/), on Flickr

I can understand the sensitivity, but does that preclude any criticism of the aesthetics of Christchurch's inner-city? If so, for how long? And who decides when it's over?

No-one is trying to stifle any criticism. Like I said, no-one in Christchurch is going to try and defend, for example, the Square and its various 'redevelopments'. I just thought the post in question was completely pointless, not at all constructive and even possibly a little mean-spirited.

Anyway, moving on...

Aside from the older buildings, a lot of Christchurch's central city was fairly forgettable, like most cities in New Zealand with designs from the postwar era (actually, all the way up to the mid nineties really).

I'd go so far as to say most cities in the world. We should be looking at Germany and Britain for guidance as to how NOT to rebuild after widespread destruction (looking at similar sizes cities to Christchurch).

I don't think the Square has necessarily actually lost any buildings though? Potentially the Press building (to be confirmed) and obviously the Cathedral will be rebuilt. I doubt that there will be much done to the actual Square itself when so much money is going to be needed elsewhere.

I'd go so far as to say most cities in the world. We should be looking at Germany and Britain for guidance as to how NOT to rebuild after widespread destruction (looking at similar sizes cities to Christchurch).

Depends on the examples. No one wants to rebuild like Köln, but most people would be very proud to rebuild like Munich. Some German cities (largely the southern part strangely) rebuilt very nicely and would be a good template but many of the northern cities did adopt the "modernism rules" approach which resulted in very utilitarian cities. Britain, however, did largely rebuild badly I'd agree as a former native. The rebuilds in both countries occurred in a different age. In the 1950's-1960's everyone wanted to do away with our past and push modernism to the extreme (hence the NIMBY backlash of present days).

I am sure that the rebuilds everywhere in the world would be handled very differently today, just as they will in Christchurch as we generally take a more sensitive approach these days. I have high hopes for its future I just hope that people can be enticed back to the city.

Off-topic, but is there an equivalent to look at from recent years?

Kobe was pretty much rebuilt as it was before from what I understand. The French Quarter and CBD areas of New Orleans mostly escaped without major structural damage. Nothing in California decimated urban areas like we've seen in Christchurch.

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1313099170/690/5434690.jpg

I hate it.

Why?

* The middle will be out of action when the grass is damp - even if it's sunny. That means people won't be on it, nor entertainers and stalls.
* No entertainers doing anything which would require a hard surface in the middle of the square, full stop. There won't be much room on the sides, as that's where people will walk around.
* There's plenty of greenspace in the CBD already. Victoria Square is just a block North, and will always be a prettier version of that type of square, due to the buildings that border it being over the road on two sides - and better looking buildings too (post re-build, I'd still expect this to be true). It also has a lawn bigger than would be fit in Cathedral Square. To me, it makes more sense to have two different types of squares: one gardenish, and one highly functional paved one.
* Greening it up this way makes it look very small town - the exact opposite feeling needed. This looks more like a school or business park courtyard than a city centre.

I think it's a horrible brainfart, and hope it goes nowhere.

Good points. Just add more green space in the sq IMO. I don't like seeing the vast majority as grey pavement. More grassy areas allows people to come chill out in the summer too :)

I actually like Rooty's points there. ChCh is blessed with parkland, I don't think you guys need more. The paved square has multiple uses whereas a grassed space is more restricted in its uses.

Agreed - if they want more green it should come from shady trees and more planter boxes. A giant lawn is the last thing we need there for 8 months of the year.

Rooty with regards to the your comment,

" The middle will be out of action when the grass is damp - even if it's sunny. That means people won't be on it, nor entertainers and stalls.

I deal in turf and it's not a big issue to have lush green grass that can take 50mm of rain in 24 hours and not turn into a bog. It won't be your run of the mill backyard job.

Even with extensive foot traffic and stalls, stages etc the grass will bounce back as good as new.

That said, something needs to be done with the Square, and it needs to be visionary. It should represent the rebuild and the progress and changes that have been made. So if we don't want a lawn, what DO we want?

EDIT: Thanks for the post mike - Maybe some lawned areas for people to sit on would be nice, but I still think maintaining a large paved area is important for the city.

I love the idea of a the Square being more garden like. It never has really worked well as a civic space, so I would like to see well designed civic square designed that could hold many 1000's of people for multifunctional events. Cathedral Square - I think - should be a stunning example of civic garden where people, cathedral and the buidings that boarder it blend into a haven for all.

I would like to see a international design competition for the Square, because no one in NZ can seem to get it right....................

This (with or with out flower sculptures)
http://www.archdaily.com/146875/whatami-at-maxxi-starrt/

Great method of adding green space to a large paved area, pictures don't really do it justice.