What are the largest economies of africa?
im guessing it's south africa number 1, egypt 2, north afrrican countries follow, then nigeria etc.
imay be wrong.kindly list the figures in detail. matthias offodile? anyone?

What are the largest economies of africa?
im guessing it's south africa number 1, egypt 2, north afrrican countries follow, then nigeria etc.
imay be wrong.kindly list the figures in detail. matthias offodile? anyone?

Look it up on wikepedia!

The IMF is more reliable, here's a table showing the economic sizes of African countries (in PPP)

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2007/01/data/weorept.aspx?sy=2004&ey=2008&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=612%2C668%2C614%2C674%2C638%2C676%2C616%2C678%2C748%2C682%2C618%2C684%2C622%2C686%2C624%2C688%2C626%2C728%2C628%2C692%2C632%2C694%2C636%2C714%2C634%2C716%2C662%2C722%2C611%2C718%2C642%2C724%2C643%2C199%2C644%2C732%2C646%2C734%2C648%2C738%2C652%2C742%2C656%2C744%2C654%2C746%2C664%2C754%2C666%2C698&s=PPPWGT&grp=0&a=&pr.x=60&pr.y=10

I must add that the IMF figure for Nigeria does not include the unofficial economy, which is as mush as twice the "Official" economy.

south africa
egypt
algeria
morocco
nigeria

Look it up on wikepedia!

how hard is it to check it out on wikipedia? God i dont believe some of this people.:bash:

south africa
egypt
algeria
morocco
nigeria

Morocanboy, I do not know where you have got your figures from, but they are very inaccurate. Check out wikipedia and you will realise that Nigeria's economy is bigger than Morocco's in all three sources. Just in case you want a link, it is here
wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29)

Morocanboy, I do not know where you have got your figures from, but they are very inaccurate. Check out wikipedia and you will realise that Nigeria's economy is bigger than Morocco's in all three sources. Just in case you want a link, it is here
wikipedia

Yes, Nigeria is definitely ahead of Marocco. And Nigeria´s economy hasn´t really even started to boom whereas most of Northern African countries are almost saturated. It is just a matter of time (and stability), if Nigeria really starts to boom with growth rates of 8% on average (which is realistic in my eyes), from its current sluggish 6%, Nigeria can eventually turn out to be number second in entire Africa. it will come very very close to South Africa in the next decade (if the above-mentioned conditions are met).
Angola will also continue to race ahead in the next decade, as said earlier Angola will continue to grow in double digit numbers till 2012 (IWF report published on Angolan website). The Angolan press featured in article a week or so ago in which it was said that the economy could even grow much more if the level of destruction wouldn´t be so severe in the country.
Pleasant suprises willt also come out of Kenya and Sudan, probably Ghana. Do not underestimate Ivory Coast. Although the physical infrastructure is crumbling (considerably) due to the political crisis, the country still has one of the best infrastructure in entire sub-saharan Africa...and one never knows what will become of Zimbabwe once the old man vanishes from the political scene. At least the pics that I have seen on SSC show a country that still has a solid base to build up on. No war has bombed everything to pieces. So Ivory Coast and Zimbabwe could potentially be among Africa´s countries that rise from the ashes pretty quickly.

In short, Africa will have many growth centres and not just one which is South Africa. It will be something like Asia. Compare Asia in the 1960´s to nowadays.

Arguing about whose economy is larger than who is just as dumb as "my penis is bigger than yours" argument. The average Belgian lives alot better than the average Chinese by a long shot. Yet China is the global economic driving force for decades to come.

North Africa is not saturated, quite the contrary many countries of that region are growing on par with Sub-Saharan Africa despite being generally more developed. Population growth rate should also be taken into account, with Sub-Saharan Africa having the highest population growth.

Thanks to the informal market in like EVERY African economy, and the fact that there isn't much national indicators in the majority of African nations, it truly is a puzzle that I really don't even want to bother to think about.

North Africa is not saturated, quite the contrary many countries of that region are growing on par with Sub-Saharan Africa despite being generally more developed. Population growth rate should also be taken into account, with Sub-Saharan Africa having the highest population growth.

I should have added "satured"! My fault!

Sub-Saharan African is not a monolith , it is hilariuos to lump all Sub-Saharan African countries into a bin. Each country or each sub-region at least should be anaylsed seperately to get a better more differentiated picture of the vast continent called Africa.
Most of Sub-Saharan Africa is not booming yet. So there is still a lot of room upwards, I am talking of A LOT... much more than it is the case for North African countries or South Africa which are "saturated".

North Africa is not saturated, quite the contrary many countries of that region are growing on par with Sub-Saharan Africa despite being generally more developed. Population growth rate should also be taken into account, with Sub-Saharan Africa having the highest population growth.

I should have added "satured"! My fault!

Sub-Saharan African is not a monolith , it is hilariuos to lump all Sub-Saharan African countries into a bin. Each country or each sub-region at least should be anaylsed seperately to get a better more differentiated picture of the vast continent called Africa.
Most of Sub-Saharan Africa is not booming yet. So there is still a lot of room upwards, I am talking of A LOT... much more than it is the case for North African countries or South Africa which are "saturated".

I should have added "satured"! My fault!

Sub-Saharan African is not a monolith , it is hilariuos to lump all Sub-Saharan African countries into a bin. Each country or each sub-region at least should be anaylsed seperately to get a better more differentiated picture of the vast continent called Africa.
Most of Sub-Saharan Africa is not booming yet. So there is still a lot of room upwards, I am talking of A LOT... much more than it is the case for North African countries or South Africa which are "saturated".

Your right, but the same goes for Latin America, the "West", East Asia, South East Asia, the Middle East ect. but we do it anyways. Sub Saharan Africa is a broad discription of a large portion of the African continent. East Africa and West Africa are immensly different, but if we were to group each specific region it would be far to fragmented so most economists will use the term Sub Saharan Africa.

The thing is using that argument is far to much "what if" or "what might" happen. By that same token the DRC has probably the most potential than any other African country, but I can't see them in my life time getting their act together. This goes for many countries as well with even less potential. We need to look at two broad major components.
1.The current state of a nation
2. It's rate of development (i.e gdp growth among many other things)

Using these two general factors I'm optimistic about the following nations.
South Africa
Kenya
Algeria
Angola
Ghana
Botswana
Namibia
Gabon
Tunisia

Countries who remain to be seen imho are Morroco, Nigeria, Senegal and Uganda

p.s I purposely ignored Cape Verde, Seychelles and Mauritious.

Ten first african economy (by IMF)

African Rank Country GDP (PPP)
1 South Africa 532,011
2 Egypt 302,803
3 Algeria 232,692
4 Nigeria 173,704
5 Morocco 138,006
6 Sudan 85,461
7 Tunisia 83,353
8 Libya 65,647
9 Ethiopia 62,744
10 Ghana 54,330


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_countries_by_GDP_PPP

^^ ^^ Ethiopia number 9? What? Wow man

Arguing about whose economy is larger than who is just as dumb as "my penis is bigger than yours" argument. The average Belgian lives alot better than the average Chinese by a long shot. Yet China is the global economic driving force for decades to come.

North Africa is not saturated, quite the contrary many countries of that region are growing on par with Sub-Saharan Africa despite being generally more developed. Population growth rate should also be taken into account, with Sub-Saharan Africa having the highest population growth.


You are 101% right. It is a complete irrelevance. It is irrelevant that India has a bigger economy than Norway, what is more important is that Norway has a far bigger GDP per head than India. Nigeria may have a bigger economy than Cape Verde, Mauritius or Botswana but these countries are far richer.

It does show, however, how important an economy is globally but that doenst affect the living standards of its inhabitants.

Its like saying that a couple with four children, earning $50,000 a year to feed the whole family is better off than a single man earning $40,000.

^^ ^^ Ethiopia number 9? What? Wow man

That is what Alex and I are talking about, Ethiopia is very poor but has one of the largest populations in Africa.

GDP nominal

1 29 South Africa 255,155
2 48 Nigeria 115,350 [1]
3 49 Algeria 114,322 [2]
4 51 Egypt 107,375 [3]
5 54 Morocco 57,407
6 62 Libya 50,330 [4]
7 63 Angola 43,759 [5]
8 67 Sudan 37,564 [6]
9 75 Tunisia 30,620 [7]
10 79 Kenya 23,187[8]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_countries_by_GDP

Your right, but the same goes for Latin America, the "West", East Asia, South East Asia, the Middle East ect. but we do it anyways. :yes: , but if we were to group each specific region it would be far to fragmented so most economists will use the term Sub Saharan Africa.

The thing is using that argument is far to much "what if" or "what might" happen. By that same token the DRC has probably the most potential than any other African country, but I can't see them in my life time getting their act together. This goes for many countries as well with even less potential. We need to look at two broad major components.
1.The current state of a nation
2. It's rate of development (i.e gdp growth among many other things)

Using these two general factors I'm optimistic about the following nations.
South Africa
Kenya
Algeria
Angola
Ghana
Botswana
Namibia
Gabon
Tunisia

Countries who remain to be seen imho are Morroco, Nigeria, Senegal and Uganda

p.s I purposely ignored Cape Verde, Seychelles and Mauritious.

Agree with your listing but you have to add Nigeria, there is no Africa without Nigeria! It might sound arrogant but it is not it is a fact.

Secondly, where is Libya in your listing? I hate Ghadaffi awfully but his country is waking up slowly and the macroeconomics are not bad and once his son takes over who seems to be a thousand times more cosmopolitan and Western-educated, things will most likely shift even more to the positive.

3.) Why do you exclude Cape Verde, Seychelles and Mauritius from your listings. ALL of them are african countries. So why do you purposely ignore them?

4.) As for Congo, what would you propose to get the country back on tracks? I am restless that´s why I opened a thread about it a few months back to know other people´s opinions about it. Do you think that Congo should be divided up? Provinces should be given autonomy? I have never been to Congo but I can imagine that the country is culturally hugely diverse. Lumbashi is so different from Kinshasa....and I have been told that it takes more than 3 hours to fly from the capital to Lubumbashi, this is gigantic. It is more than flying from Berlin to Lisbon, for example.

5.) What are your serious non-biased assements of Côte d´ivoire and Zimbabwe´s future? Don´t you think that Zimbabwe can rise from the ashes? PLEASE, be honest to yourself!

You are 101% right. It is a complete irrelevance. It is irrelevant that India has a bigger economy than Norway, what is more important is that Norway has a far bigger GDP per head than India. Nigeria may have a bigger economy than Cape Verde, Mauritius or Botswana but these countries are far richer.

It does show, however, how important an economy is globally but that doenst affect the living standards of its inhabitants.

Its like saying that a couple with four children, earning $50,000 a year to feed the whole family is better off than a single man earning $40,000.

Exactly! We must ask ourselves what we value more, global importance or standards of living? What I mean by this isn't that a nation chooses one or the other, thats simply not possible but that we as individuals decide to commend size or quality.

Now a large poor nation will use its power to improve the standards of living, China has done this with immense progress.

Agree with your listing but you have to add Nigeria, there is no Africa without Nigeria! It might sound arrogant but it is not it is a fact.

Secondly, where is Libya in your listing? I hate Ghadaffi awfully but his country is waking up slowly and the macroeconomics are not bad and once his son takes over who seems to be a thousand times more cosmopolitan and Western-educated, things will most likely shift even more to the positive.

3.) Why do you exclude Cape Verde, Seychelles and Mauritius from your listings. ALL of them are african countries. So why do you purposely ignore them?

4.) As for Congo, what would you propose to get the country back on tracks? I am restless that´s why I opened a thread about it a few months back to know other people´s opinions about it. Do you think that Congo should be divided up? Provinces should be given autonomy? I have never been to Congo but I can imagine that the country is culturally hugely diverse. Lumbashi is so different from Kinshasa....and I have been told that it takes more than 3 hours to fly from the capital to Lubumbashi, this is gigantic. It is more than flying from Berlin to Lisbon, for example.

5.) What are your serious non-biased assements of Côte d´ivoire and Zimbabwe´s future? Don´t you think that Zimbabwe can rise from the ashes? PLEASE, be honest to yourself!

No it doesn't sound arrogant, its a reasonable argument. After all Nigeria is the most populous nation as well as the biggest exporter of oil. However their are still massive problems such as the unresolved dispute in the Delta, that is still a big "if" that needs to be solved. When that happens as well as increased growth, investment and diversification Nigeria will definitely enter my personal list. That doesn't mean Nigeria isn't getting better, its just that the pace of things and what still needs to be done leaves me doubts.

Libya is a nation I thought about, but decided to leave out. Primarily due to Ghadaffi. The thing is he's not that old and their are still some years to come before he gives power to his reform minded son. Libya is another nation that has to go through diversification mind you. It's education system isn't that great either. We need to give it some time, perhaps Ghadaffi will prove me wrong, I hope that ends up being the case.

The reason why I've excluded those three islands is that they share a major similiarity. Apart from them being islands, they have tiny populations in practically a tourism derived economy. Their no different from small Carribean nations, who have a minimal geo political role other than attracting tourists. They've done a good job, however I'd like some ambition from these nations. Why not follow the Cayman Islands example and make themselves a center for offshore financing. Believe me places like Cape Verde or Mauritious would be appealing.

Congo is 2/3 the size of Europe with hundreds of languages and ethnicities. I'm all for diversity, but the Congo has proven that it can't cope with all the squabbles and in fighting. But its not only about having many ethnic groups confined within one country, its also the huge abundants of resources thats the root of most of the fighting. That to me is the reason why I can't see a country with hundreds of different groups with different self interests colliding constantly for wealth and power. Breaking it up would work, but their would be conflict in that as well. Who gets the mineral rich lands?

I must confess I know very little about the Ivory Coast, but isn't their country squarly divided between the rebel north and the government south? The Ivory Coast is similiar to Lebanon in that it used to be the Paris of Africa. I can't say whether or not it will get better, personally I don't think things will change anytime soon.

With regards to Zimbabwe, well how bad can things get? If people don't revolt soon I guess will have to wait until Mugambe's death. Despite being over 80 he looks incredibly healthy. Zimbabwe CAN rise and probably will, but it will take so many years to bounce back. Agriculture is its main industry so the question beackons; what of the white farmers? Who will train the black farmers and create a fair land distribution program. Their are so many questions that have to be taken into account.

What are the largest economies of africa?
im guessing it's south africa number 1, egypt 2, north afrrican countries follow, then nigeria etc.
imay be wrong.kindly list the figures in detail. matthias offodile? anyone?

Sorry I came in late.

The order is South Africa, Nigeria, and the northern countries.

Things are looking very well. In 15-18 years it will change. Nigeria will lead the pack as the largest economy in Africa, perhaps overtaking that of even Italy in Europe. That is according to Goldman Sach's picture of Africa's future. Read this link:

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

I would agree that you can not ignore Nigeria in your list of the countries you should be most optimistic about. I believe that it probably stands more chance than ever to experience an economic boom because of the new President who seems to mean serious business. Finally, here is a man that i believe has a plan for Nigeria.

If anything, the article that was posted about Nigeria open for business (http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=318320&area=/insight/insight__economy__business/) serves to show the optimism in South African business circles about Nigeria's economic potential. Other articles by Financial Times and other reputable economic commentators all point to good times in store for Nigeria. It all hinges on the government providing an enabling environment by concentrating on energy, transport infrastructure, security (Niger Delta) and fighting corruption all of which i believe President Yar'Ardua is determined to tackle head-on.

^^ I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the statement about Nigeria's Economy overtaking Italy's.

You have to understand that Nigeria is still very much reliant on natural resources to drive its GDP growth. This looks very pretty on paper but not on the ground. Relying solely on natural resources causes and inadequate distribution of wealth as well as a substandard of living. In short, Nigeria(and that goes for most hydrocarbon-exporting nations of Africa) will have to start 'producing' manufactured goods and 'offering' excellent services before it can be considered developed.

You are 101% right. It is a complete irrelevance. It is irrelevant that India has a bigger economy than Norway, what is more important is that Norway has a far bigger GDP per head than India. Nigeria may have a bigger economy than Cape Verde, Mauritius or Botswana but these countries are far richer.

It does show, however, how important an economy is globally but that doenst affect the living standards of its inhabitants.

Its like saying that a couple with four children, earning $50,000 a year to feed the whole family is better off than a single man earning $40,000.

i dont now how you guys can say the size of the economy is irrelvant. the fact is large econmies attract investment and over time lead to better living conditions for its people. it also affets global market forces. you think the world really cares if norway decides to stop bying a certain product. now think if china says yes to gold from mali or no to oil from nigeria. these thigns matter because of the size of the economy. tis attracts investors and long term leads to a beter life for the peopel inthose countries.

i dont now how you guys can say the size of the economy is irrelvant. the fact is large econmies attract investment and over time lead to better living conditions for its people. it also affets global market forces. you think the world really cares if norway decides to stop bying a certain product. now think if china says yes to gold from mali or no to oil from nigeria. these thigns matter because of the size of the economy. tis attracts investors and long term leads to a beter life for the peopel inthose countries.

Economic size can very well be soley determined by a very large population. That doesn't itselt translate into investments. Investing in Norway is still a better option than in Nigeria. My point is that our perspective should be geared towards standard of living over Economic size. Who do you think is happier some Finn or a Chinese farmer in Western China.

That doesn't itselt translate into investments. Investing in Norway is still a better option than in Nigeria.

You are full of contradictions and you lack credibility. Matthias insists on affording you credibility by exchanging "thoughts" with you. You listed chose 6 or 7 African countries as having an optimistic outlook, based on comparison with other African countries. Suddenly you are setting the standard for an optimistic Nigeria using Norway. Frankly I think a snake comes in many skins, but it is still a snake. Disguise yourself as you may, claim Brazil as you may, but your thought process and mentality is evident and is archaic.

Economic size can very well be soley determined by a very large population. That doesn't itselt translate into investments. Investing in Norway is still a better option than in Nigeria. My point is that our perspective should be geared towards standard of living over Economic size. Who do you think is happier some Finn or a Chinese farmer in Western China.

size doesnt always lead to a large economy. despite the asian miracle india and china are still relatively small for thier potential sizes, with china being about the size of germany. but size gives you clout and protects you from external shocks. in the long term those large nations will be better off.

Agree with your listing but you have to add Nigeria, there is no Africa without Nigeria! It might sound arrogant but it is not it is a fact.

Secondly, where is Libya in your listing? I hate Ghadaffi awfully but his country is waking up slowly and the macroeconomics are not bad and once his son takes over who seems to be a thousand times more cosmopolitan and Western-educated, things will most likely shift even more to the positive.



it seems you're quite brainwashed yourself. seems like you're a western b!*** so to speak, what does western education have to do with him being better than his father?

as for looking it up on wiki pedia, it's an unreliable source.

look evryone is saying per capit income but pardon me doesnt the whole economy have to grow before the per capita income increases..or do u think it'll increase on the sme 100 and something billion dollars..and as for the clown talking bout we cat pass italy..let me tell u something bout nigerians..we have a resilience tht is hard to match..whn we say we will do it we will do it..and the government is taking steps to make us less dependent on oil..the vision is for 2025 so its still a long way away for u to say we dont have a manufacturing base or effective services..furthermore for the guys who said those islands are richer thn nigeria.. a man with 10 million to feed his 10 kids is by and low still reacher thn the one with one million to feed his one child..thank you

and alex the way things are moving there are certain areas in which investing in nigeria is better thn inveting in norway because of the market size...trust me.and norway is also an oil dependent country as oil accounts for almost 60 percent of its gdp while it has just a population of 4.7 million...common tht aint even lagos.. and is also the third largest exporter of oil outside saudi arabia and russia while being outside opec

well,


I think that people here are confused at two concepts," the size of economy" and "GDP".

"GDP" is a indication of "the size of economy",but "GDP" itself is not "the size of economy".

"GDP" can be a reasonable indication of "the size of economy" ,but it is not the perfect indication by far.

sometimes, GDP can contradict the reality people feel.
For example.

the per GDP of east european is almost as much as that of Latin-American,but east european has a much better life quality than latin-American.

the per GDP of Vietnam is almost as much as that of India,but if you have visited two countries , you can find that Vietnamese people have a much better life quality than India.


some per GDP of east european is only about 1000-2000 USD,such as Ukraine. it is not more than many African countries. But those east eurpean countries have much better HDI than African countries.

it seems you're quite brainwashed yourself. seems like you're a western b!*** so to speak, what does western education have to do with him being better than his father?

If you had listened to interviews by his son, you wouldn´t have asked this question

as for looking it up on wiki pedia, it's an unreliable source.

No, it is not, because they take their information from IWF and Worldbank statistics ! Or do you want to say that these financial institutions lack credibility.... this would open a whole new debate!

You are 101% right. It is a complete irrelevance. It is irrelevant that India has a bigger economy than Norway, what is more important is that Norway has a far bigger GDP per head than India. Nigeria may have a bigger economy than Cape Verde, Mauritius or Botswana but these countries are far richer.


Popa1980, let me put it bluntly...all those small African countries whether you take Cape verde, Namibia, Gabon, Mautitius, Seychelles or Botswana are generally "fine" countries, nice to look at etc., I like the countries, too...no doubt about it..... HOWEVER don´t expect anything BIG to come out of any of these above-mentioned countries. Their impact on African development as a whole is "nothing" and if you put them all together, their population is not even half that of Lagos Metropolitan Area....moreover, Nigerian middle-classes are far bigger than in all of those countries combined. (I am not kidding)....and if you look to the moneyed elite, it would just take a couple of rich Nigerians and all of these above-mentioned small African countries would be history when they are abosorbed by Nigerian capital. I doubt that any Namibian, Mauritian, Seychellois etc. would do the same with Nigeria!:ohno:
It is as plain and simple as that, even if it sounds arrogant!

YEAH, not surprised the whole thread turned into who is better or worse than nigeria. i have no idea why any thread about african economies ends up this way. SAD SAD SAD case. Another reason i ask for a nigeria's forum beacuse they have enough forumers and enough materials to start their own forum. if nigeria is africa's awakening giant then that to me is an aoutomatic forum.

AFRICANS, WE JUST CANT HAVE A HEALTHY DISCUSSION AND GET ALONG, AND YOU WONDER WHY WE DONT FIND SOLUTIONS TO OURS ENDLESS PROBLEMS.

size doesnt always lead to a large economy. despite the asian miracle india and china are still relatively small for thier potential sizes, with china being about the size of germany. but size gives you clout and protects you from external shocks. in the long term those large nations will be better off.

Better of in terms of what? China will not equal western standards of living in our life times. They will have a greater global economic and political impact. You also have to take into account that governing a large nation is SOOOO much more difficult, China being a totalitarian regime actually facilitates things. India however, the world's largest democracies shows things are incredibly messy. Brazil isn't that efficient because we are a large democratic nation, among other things in having corrupt politicians. But thats another story... :)

well,


I think that people here are confused at two concepts," the size of economy" and "GDP".

"GDP" is a indication of "the size of economy",but "GDP" itself is not "the size of economy".

"GDP" can be a reasonable indication of "the size of economy" ,but it is not the perfect indication by far.

sometimes, GDP can contradict the reality people feel.
For example.

the per GDP of east european is almost as much as that of Latin-American,but east european has a much better life quality than latin-American.

the per GDP of Vietnam is almost as much as that of India,but if you have visited two countries , you can find that Vietnamese people have a much better life quality than India.


some per GDP of east european is only about 1000-2000 USD,such as Ukraine. it is not more than many African countries. But those east eurpean countries have much better HDI than African countries.

Your right, but you have to look at a few things. Eastern Europe has roughly the same literacy rate as the West. Thus creating a educated population.

Just a clarification, on average Eastern Europe has a larger gdp percapita than Latin America.

Reader's Digest Quality of Life Country rankings

. Finlândia
2. Islândia
3. Noruega
4. Suécia
5. Áustria
6. Suíça
7. Irlanda
8. Austrália
9. Uruguai
10. Dinamarca
11. Canadá
12. Japão
13. Israel
14. Itália
15. Eslovênia
16. França
17. Dinamarca
18. Portugal
19. Nova Zelândia
20. Grécia
21. Alemanha
22. Letônia
23. Estados Unidos
24. Lituânia
25. Reino Unido
26. Bélgica
27. Argentina
28. Croácia
29. Espanha
30. Hungria
31. Albânia
32. Estônia
33. Eslováquia
34. Costa Rica
35. Coréia do Sul
36. Cuba
37. Belarus
38. República Tcheca
39. Bósnia e Herzegovina
40. Brasil
41. Panama
42. Armenia
43. Chile
44. Paraguai
45. Emirados Árabes Unidos
46. Macedônia
47. Bulgária
48. Polônia
49. Kuwait
50. Omã
51. Rússia
52. Peru
53. Colômbia
54. Malásia
55. Guiana
56. Romênia
57. Trinidad & Tobago
58. Geórgia
59. Cazaquistão
60. Moldávia
61. Tailândia
62. Tunísia
63. México
64. Líbia
65. Ucraina
66. Sri Lanka
67. Líbano
68. Venezuela
69. Equador
70. Turquia
71. Jordânia
72. Argélia
73. Quirguistão
74. Azerbaijão
75. Bolívia
76. Gabão
77. República Dominicana
78. Síria
79. El Salvador
80. Arába Saudita
81. Jamaica
82. Indonésia
83. Irã
84. China
85. Nicarágua
86. Namíbia
87. Filipinas
88. Egito
89. Mongólia
90. Vietnã
91. Mianmar
92. Honduras
93. Botsuana
94. Turcomenistão
95. Tadjiquistão
96. África do Sul
97. Guatemala
98. Camboja
99. Uzbequistão
100. Butão
101. Laos
102. Marrocos
103. Gana
104. Índia
105. Congo
106. Camarões
107. Uganda
108. Nepal
109. Papua e Nova Guiné
110. Gâmbia
111. Bangladesh
112. Madagascar
113. Senegal
114. Togo
115. Paquistão
116. Quênia
117. Ruanda
118. Guiné
119. Zimbábue
120. Zâmbia
121. Nigéria
122. Sudão
123. Tanzânia
124. Benin
125. República da África Central
126. Maláui
127. Mauritânia
128. Iêmen
129. Angola
130. Costa do Marfim
131. República Democrática do Congo
132. Haiti
133. Mali
134. Guiné-Bissau
135. Moçambique
136. Burundi
137. Chade
138. Burkina Faso
139. Serra Leoa
140. Níger
141. Etiópia

http://noticias.bol.uol.com.br/ciencia/2007/09/20/ult4729u688.jhtm

Reader's Digest Quality of Life Country rankings

1. Finlândia
2. Islândia
3. Noruega
4. Suécia
5. Áustria
6. Suíça
7. Irlanda
8. Austrália
9. Uruguai
10. Dinamarca
11. Canadá
12. Japão
13. Israel
14. Itália
15. Eslovênia
16. França
17. Dinamarca
18. Portugal
19. Nova Zelândia
20. Grécia
21. Alemanha
22. Letônia
23. Estados Unidos
24. Lituânia
25. Reino Unido
26. Bélgica
27. Argentina
28. Croácia
29. Espanha
30. Hungria
31. Albânia
32. Estônia
33. Eslováquia
34. Costa Rica
35. Coréia do Sul
36. Cuba
37. Belarus
38. República Tcheca
39. Bósnia e Herzegovina
40. Brasil
41. Panama
42. Armenia
43. Chile
44. Paraguai
45. Emirados Árabes Unidos
46. Macedônia
47. Bulgária
48. Polônia
49. Kuwait
50. Omã
51. Rússia
52. Peru
53. Colômbia
54. Malásia
55. Guiana
56. Romênia
57. Trinidad & Tobago
58. Geórgia
59. Cazaquistão
60. Moldávia
61. Tailândia
62. Tunísia
63. México
64. Líbia (=Libya)
65. Ucraina
66. Sri Lanka
67. Líbano
68. Venezuela
69. Equador
70. Turquia
71. Jordânia
72. Argélia(=Algeria)
73. Quirguistão
74. Azerbaijão
75. Bolívia
76. Gabão (=Gabon)
77. República Dominicana
78. Síria
79. El Salvador
80. Arába Saudita
81. Jamaica
82. Indonésia
83. Irã
84. China
85. Nicarágua
86. Namíbia(=Namibia)
87. Filipinas
88. Egito (Egypt)
89. Mongólia
90. Vietnã
91. Mianmar
92. Honduras
93. Botsuana(Botswana)
94. Turcomenistão
95. Tadjiquistão
96. África do Sul (=South Africa)
97. Guatemala
98. Camboja
99. Uzbequistão
100. Butão
101. Laos
102. Marrocos (=Marocco)
103. Gana (=Ghana)
104. Índia
105. Congo (=Congo-Brazzaville)
106. Camarões
107. Uganda
108. Nepal
109. Papua e Nova Guiné
110. Gâmbia
111. Bangladesh
112. Madagascar
113. Senegal
114. Togo
115. Paquistão
116. Quênia
117. Ruanda
118. Guiné (Guinea-Conakry)
119. Zimbábue(=Zimbabwe)
120. Zâmbia
121. Nigéria
122. Sudão (=Sudan)
123. Tanzânia
124. Benin
125. República da África Central (=Central African Republic)
126. Maláui (=Malawi)
127. Mauritânia
128. Iêmen
129. Angola
130. Costa do Marfim (=Ivory Coast)
131. República Democrática do Congo (=Zaire)
132. Haiti
133. Mali
134. Guiné-Bissau
135. Moçambique
136. Burundi
137. Chade (=Chad)
138. Burkina Faso
139. Serra Leoa (=Sierra Leone)
140. Níger
141. Etiópia

What were the indicators they used, please? When was the list first published? The list is highly doubtful.....how can it be that Central Africa Republic is better rated than countries like Mocambique, Angola and Ivory Coast?:ohno: Zimbabwe is better than Nigeria????:lol: :nuts:

Sorry, but this rating is dismissed!

^^ Yeah i have to agree, this is bs. I think its the opinion of reader's digest writers and readers, not economists.

Matthias, could you please ignore threads like this? These threads are always started on purpose. They all depend on our responses to keep this thread moving.

^^ Yeah i have to agree, this is bs. I think its the opinion of reader's digest writers and readers, not economists.

I think its more to do, with the enviroment, issues like pollution and other enviromental issues are whats taken into account. Hence why Chinese and Indian cities rank at the bottom.

1. Estocolmo, Suécia
2. Oslo, Noruega
3. Munique, Alemanha
4. Paris, França
5. Frankfurt, Alemanha
6. Stuttgart, Alemanha
7. Lyon, França
8. Dusseldorf, Alemanha
9. Nantes, França
10. Copenhague, Dinamarca
11. Genebra, Suíça
12. Zurique, Suíça
13. Glasgow, Reino Unido
14. Barcelona, Espanha
15. Nova York, Estados Unidos
16. Bruxelas, Bélgica
17. Hamburgo, Alemanha
18. Hong Kong, China
19. Newcastle, Reino Unido
20. Tóquio, Japão
21. Helsinque, Finlândia
22. Washington D.C., Estados Unidos
23. Chicago, Estados Unidos
24. Vancouver, Canadá
25. Dortmund, Alemanha
26. San Francisco, Estados Unidos
27. Londres, Reino Unido
28. Perth, Austrália
29. Melbourne, Austrália
30. Manchester, Reino Unido
31. Graz, Áustria
32. Berlim, Alemanha
33. Ottawa, Canadá
34. Wellington, Nova Zelândia
35. Amsterdã, Dinamarca
36. Atlanta, Estados Unidos
37. Marselha, França
38. Viena, Áustria
39. Roma, Itália
40. Sydney, Austrália
41. Praga, República Tcheca
42. Brisbane, Austrália
43. Denver, Estados Unidos
44. Berna, Suíça
45. Cidade de Cingapura, Cingapura
46. Houston, Estados Unidos
47. Bolonha, Itália
48. Montreal, Canadá
49. Kuala Lumpur, Malásia
50. Toronto, Canadá
51. Cidade do Cabo, África do Sul
52. Seul, Coréia do Sul
53. Milão, Itália
54. Curitiba, Brasil
55. San Diego, Estados Unidos
56. Madri, Espanha
57. Los Angeles, Estados Unidos
58. Budapeste, Hungria
59. Calgary, Canadá
60. Phoenix, Estados Unidos
61. Johannesburg, África do Sul
62. São Paulo, Brasil
63. Atenas, Grécia
64. Tel Aviv, Israel
65. Chennai, Índia
66. Cracóvia, Polônia
67. Taipé, Taiwan
68. Bangcoc, Tailândia
69. Guangzhou, China
70. Mumbai, Índia
71. Xangai, China
72. Pequim, China

You are full of contradictions and you lack credibility. Matthias insists on affording you credibility by exchanging "thoughts" with you.

Naijalove ignore the thrash that Alex writes, because I believe that this is the best way to treat his posts. When he realizes that nobody responds to his post, he will take his racist views elsewhere.

Naijalove ignore the thrash that Alex writes, because I believe that this is the best way to treat his posts. When he realizes that nobody responds to his post, he will take his racist views elsewhere.

I agree with you. I will take heed to that. I hope Matthias is able to leave the guy to his drivel and not give him the credibility he is looking for. Most of these threads are kept alive by us challenging people who have ulterior motives for making nonsensical statements.

Your right, but the same goes for Latin America, the "West", East Asia, South East Asia, the Middle East ect. but we do it anyways. Sub Saharan Africa is a broad discription of a large portion of the African continent. East Africa and West Africa are immensly different, but if we were to group each specific region it would be far to fragmented so most economists will use the term Sub Saharan Africa.

The thing is using that argument is far to much "what if" or "what might" happen. By that same token the DRC has probably the most potential than any other African country, but I can't see them in my life time getting their act together. This goes for many countries as well with even less potential. We need to look at two broad major components.
1.The current state of a nation
2. It's rate of development (i.e gdp growth among many other things)

Using these two general factors I'm optimistic about the following nations.
South Africa
Kenya
Algeria
Angola
Ghana
Botswana
Namibia
Gabon
Tunisia

Countries who remain to be seen imho are Morroco, Nigeria, Senegal and Uganda

p.s I purposely ignored Cape Verde, Seychelles and Mauritious.




I and a lot of economist don't agree with you. The emerging countries in Africa are: South-Africa, Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco.

This countries have a growing economy, middle class, GDP, growing foreign investment etc. With all respect for Nigeria and Angola they have oil and the economy is doing good but this is all because of oil. They have no divers economy. And in 20/30 years the oil and gaz resources of this countries will be empty and then the wil have a big problem...

Oil is only good if you used it to stimulate other economy sectors. But if your economy is 90% depended on oil that is not good...

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:GKLFPtxvPtMJ:www.schroders.com/StaticFiles/Schroders/Funds/Australia%2520Funds/Schroder%2520Global%2520Emerging%2520Markets%2520Fund/English/Schroder-Global-Emerging-Markets-Fund-QR-AU.pdf+emerging+countries+morocco&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=nl&client=firefox-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_markets

The MSCI EM (Emerging Markets) Europe, Middle East and Africa Index is a free float-adjusted market capitalization index that is designed to measure equity market performance in the emerging market countries of Europe, the Middle East & Africa. As of June 2006, the MSCI EM EMEA Index consisted of the following 10 emerging market country indices: Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Turkey, Israel, Jordan,Egypt, Morocco and South Africa

http://www.msci.com/equity/indexdesc.html#EMEE

I agree with you. I will take heed to that. I hope Matthias is able to leave the guy to his drivel and not give him the credibility he is looking for. Most of these threads are kept alive by us challenging people who have ulterior motives for making nonsensical statements.

Excellent view Naijalove. People like Alex and Mister79 just cannot get it into their tiny racist little brains that Nigeria is beginning to recover from many years of evil tyranny. And that Angola is emerging with many potentials that were brutally suppressed by the American backed UNITA rebels.
Trust me, thanks to the West, many Africans have had to endure years of tyranny and bloodshed. Asking for examples?

Mobutu was put in power by the CIA, with the brutal murder of Patrice Mulumba; Ghana suffered similar fates, so did Nigeria, Burkina Faso and many others.

They just refuse to see what companies like Goldman Sachs are saying about the out look of Nigeria and many other African countries. They refuse to see what even the World Bank is saying. Why? because they are so narrow minded that they will rather remain blind.

Excellent view Naijalove. People like Alex and Mister79 just cannot get it into their tiny racist little brains that Nigeria is beginning to recover from many years of evil tyranny. And that Angola is emerging with many potentials that were brutally suppressed by the American backed UNITA rebels.
Trust me, thanks to the West, many Africans have had to endure years of tyranny and bloodshed. Asking for examples?

Mobutu was put in power by the CIA, with the brutal murder of Patrice Mulumba; Ghana suffered similar fates, so did Nigeria, Burkina Faso and many others.

They just refuse to see what companies like Goldman Sachs are saying about the out look of Nigeria and many other African countries. They refuse to see what even the World Bank is saying. Why? because they are so narrow minded that they will rather remain blind.

Why are you saying that I am a racist????

I am from Africa too. I am talking about the economy. Angola is one of the fastest growing economy in the world and Nigeria has an economic boom, but that is all because of the high oil price. If you economy is only depended on oil that is not good because that is not good for the micro economy and if the oil price fall you have a big problem.

The need more investments in other sectors then oil.

I hope from the bottom of my heart that Nigeria, Angola and other African Countries will become rich countries with good economy...

I and a lot of economist don't agree with you. The emerging countries in Africa are: South-Africa, Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco.

This countries have a growing economy, middle class, GDP, growing foreign investment etc. With all respect for Nigeria and Angola they have oil and the economy is doing good but this is all because of oil. They have no divers economy. And in 20/30 years the oil and gaz resources of this countries will be empty and then the wil have a big problem...

Oil is only good if you used it to stimulate other economy sectors. But if your economy is 90% depended on oil that is not good...

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:GKLFPtxvPtMJ:www.schroders.com/StaticFiles/Schroders/Funds/Australia%2520Funds/Schroder%2520Global%2520Emerging%2520Markets%2520Fund/English/Schroder-Global-Emerging-Markets-Fund-QR-AU.pdf+emerging+countries+morocco&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=nl&client=firefox-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_markets

The thing about Morroco is that all the major decisions are made by the King, the rest are just his puppets including the PM. Egypt is griped by political instability, with the Muslim Brotherhood and where any sort of dissent isn't tolerated. Tunisia and South Africa are in good shape I agree.

I agree with you, if these countries don't invest in other sectors when oil prices go down or the oil runs out they'll be in big trouble. However one can hope or assume that this doesnt' happen. Oil drives investments but you need a competent and clean government for this to work.

Excellent view Naijalove. People like Alex and Mister79 just cannot get it into their tiny racist little brains that Nigeria is beginning to recover from many years of evil tyranny. And that Angola is emerging with many potentials that were brutally suppressed by the American backed UNITA rebels.
Trust me, thanks to the West, many Africans have had to endure years of tyranny and bloodshed. Asking for examples?

Mobutu was put in power by the CIA, with the brutal murder of Patrice Mulumba; Ghana suffered similar fates, so did Nigeria, Burkina Faso and many others.

They just refuse to see what companies like Goldman Sachs are saying about the out look of Nigeria and many other African countries. They refuse to see what even the World Bank is saying. Why? because they are so narrow minded that they will rather remain blind.


Your are right a lot of the rebbels in Africa are supported by the west so the can steal all the rich resources. French does the same in Congo and other countries.

I am glad that the war in Angola is over. I hope that Congo does the same then Africa can become what is really diserve.

Stats from the Economist.

Algeria http://www.economist.com/countries/Algeria/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Angola http://www.economist.com/countries/Angola/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Egypt http://www.economist.com/countries/Egypt/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Morroco http://www.economist.com/countries/Morocco/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Nigeria http://www.economist.com/countries/Nigeria/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

South Africa http://www.economist.com/countries/SouthAfrica/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Tunisia http://www.economist.com/countries/SouthAfrica/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

The thing about Morroco is that all the major decisions are made by the King, the rest are just his puppets including the PM. Egypt is griped by political instability, with the Muslim Brotherhood and where any sort of dissent isn't tolerated. Tunisia and South Africa are in good shape I agree.

I agree with you, if these countries don't invest in other sectors when oil prices go down or the oil runs out they'll be in big trouble. However one can hope or assume that this doesnt' happen. Oil drives investments but you need a competent and clean government for this to work.

Egypt has an economic boom. I know people who live in Egypt and saying that the economy is doing very good and that a lot of people start their own companies. The direct foreign investment in Egypt was in 2006 6 billon dollar.

The property, textile, cement, industry, ICT are doing very good in Egypt.

A lot of the Golf countries are investing billions in Egypt, in tourism, industry, property etc.



Egypt has privatized some of its public institutions . The revenues from the privatization reached $5.6 billion in August 2005

Egyptian money has gone up dramatically in value during the last several years

Fourthly... "petro-dollars" have been spilling over into Egypt from neighbouring Arabic countries. Many Arabic countries had their own stock markets double in value during 2005.

Outside investment in Egypt's stock market has increased to over $160 billion, bringing the total value of Egypt's stock exchange to over $450 billion.

The thing about Morroco is that all the major decisions are made by the King, the rest are just his puppets including the PM. Egypt is griped by political instability, with the Muslim Brotherhood and where any sort of dissent isn't tolerated. Tunisia and South Africa are in good shape I agree.

I agree with you, if these countries don't invest in other sectors when oil prices go down or the oil runs out they'll be in big trouble. However one can hope or assume that this doesnt' happen. Oil drives investments but you need a competent and clean government for this to work.


You are talking about political issues. I am taling about the economy. Morocco has privatized a lot of state companies, has reform the economy etc. Morocco has the best investment climate of the Arab world.

Second Morocco has now for years an economic growth. Morocco has one of the fastest growing GDP in North-Africa.

The direct foreign investment in Morocco was in 2006 3 billion dollar and that is only growing.

The ICT, tourism, porperty, manifacturing sector are doing very good. The new Tanger port one of the biggest port in Africa will give Morocco and economic boost.




IMF describes as "remarkable" economic progress in Morocco

Washington, Aug. 10 - The International Monetary Fund on Thursday described as "remarkable" the economic progress achieved by Morocco in the past years, stressing the growth of GDP, the strength of the financial sector and the recent improvement in the tax system.





"GDP growth has moved onto a higher trajectory, inflation has been contained, foreign direct investment has increased, and poverty and unemployment have been reduced significantly," noted the Executive board of the International Monetary Fund upon concluding their the Article IV consultation with Morocco on the assessment its economic and financial situation.

"Macroeconomic conditions remain strong while average growth has reached 5.4 percent per year since 2001,that is 3.4 percentage points higher than in the 1990s," the IMF said in a press release. "This reflects the ongoing diversification of the non-agricultural sector, and its increased resilience to shocks and as a result, real per-capita income is on the rise and the unemployment rate has started to decline."

According to the IMF, bad crop years still impact the overall economic performance, as evidenced by the growth deceleration in 2007.

The fiscal deficit reached 2.1 percent of GDP in 2006, and is expected to remain below 3 percent in the medium term.

The international institution commended the authorities for the recent improvement in the fiscal position, which has played a key role in boosting the private sector confidence.

The IMF executive directors considered that reducing the public sector wage bill, reforming the oil and food subsidy system, and accelerating tax reform will be key to bring the government debt-to-GDP ratio.

Increased foreign direct investment have boosted reserves, to reach US $21Bn at end-May 2007, significantly higher than the stock of public external debt, underlined the IMF.


http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pn/2007/pn0798.htm

^^ I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the statement about Nigeria's Economy overtaking Italy's.

You have to understand that Nigeria is still very much reliant on natural resources to drive its GDP growth. This looks very pretty on paper but not on the ground. Relying solely on natural resources causes and inadequate distribution of wealth as well as a substandard of living. In short, Nigeria(and that goes for most hydrocarbon-exporting nations of Africa) will have to start 'producing' manufactured goods and 'offering' excellent services before it can be considered developed.

That is true. That is why Dubai and other countries don't want to be independent of oil because oil is not stabile and will be over in the future.

Oil can be a curse if you use it bad. The problem in Nigeria is that only 5% of the population profits of the oil. That is Gabon, Equatorial Guinea etc the same. And because the have oil other sectors are neglected.

In Gabon the don't have any agriculture anymore. The import all their food for high prices. In Equatorial Guinea is 5% of the population very rich and the other 95% is very poor and doesn't profit of the oil.

That must change then Africa can become a booming place for everyone.

Egypt has an economic boom. I know people who live in Egypt and saying that the economy is doing very good and that a lot of people start their own companies. The direct foreign investment in Egypt was in 2006 6 billon dollar.

The property, textile, cement, industry, ICT are doing very good in Egypt.

A lot of the Golf countries are investing billions in Egypt, in tourism, industry, property etc.



Egypt has privatized some of its public institutions . The revenues from the privatization reached $5.6 billion in August 2005

Egyptian money has gone up dramatically in value during the last several years

Fourthly... "petro-dollars" have been spilling over into Egypt from neighbouring Arabic countries. Many Arabic countries had their own stock markets double in value during 2005.

Outside investment in Egypt's stock market has increased to over $160 billion, bringing the total value of Egypt's stock exchange to over $450 billion.

Boom? I don't thinkso, for the last 4 years Egypt grew on average just over 4% a year. This could be attributed to the 9-11 phenomenon which hurt the tourist industry, however this is what I think. Egypt will grow at a strong pace this year, almost 7% but the question is whether it can be sustained and if it isn't just a "correction" from 4 years of mediocre growth.

Egypt's tourism industry will always be at heart, but as you stated textiles are a real important segment of the Egyptian economy. 30% of its exports are textiles, but how will nations like China and India who have a larger labor pool who are also cheaper affect Egypt. You also cannot ignore the political situation, with the Brotherhood gaining support, Mubarak could lose power, I doubt islamists will be friendly to foreign investors.

You are talking about political issues. I am taling about the economy. Morocco has privatized a lot of state companies, has reform the economy etc. Morocco has the best investment climate of the Arab world.

Second Morocco has now for years an economic growth. Morocco has one of the fastest growing GDP in North-Africa.

The direct foreign investment in Morocco was in 2006 3 billion dollar and that is only growing.

The ICT, tourism, porperty, manifacturing sector are doing very good. The new Tanger port one of the biggest port in Africa will give Morocco and economic boost.




IMF describes as "remarkable" economic progress in Morocco

Washington, Aug. 10 - The International Monetary Fund on Thursday described as "remarkable" the economic progress achieved by Morocco in the past years, stressing the growth of GDP, the strength of the financial sector and the recent improvement in the tax system.





"GDP growth has moved onto a higher trajectory, inflation has been contained, foreign direct investment has increased, and poverty and unemployment have been reduced significantly," noted the Executive board of the International Monetary Fund upon concluding their the Article IV consultation with Morocco on the assessment its economic and financial situation.

"Macroeconomic conditions remain strong while average growth has reached 5.4 percent per year since 2001,that is 3.4 percentage points higher than in the 1990s," the IMF said in a press release. "This reflects the ongoing diversification of the non-agricultural sector, and its increased resilience to shocks and as a result, real per-capita income is on the rise and the unemployment rate has started to decline."

According to the IMF, bad crop years still impact the overall economic performance, as evidenced by the growth deceleration in 2007.

The fiscal deficit reached 2.1 percent of GDP in 2006, and is expected to remain below 3 percent in the medium term.

The international institution commended the authorities for the recent improvement in the fiscal position, which has played a key role in boosting the private sector confidence.

The IMF executive directors considered that reducing the public sector wage bill, reforming the oil and food subsidy system, and accelerating tax reform will be key to bring the government debt-to-GDP ratio.

Increased foreign direct investment have boosted reserves, to reach US $21Bn at end-May 2007, significantly higher than the stock of public external debt, underlined the IMF.


http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pn/2007/pn0798.htm

When I went to Agadir in the year 2000 a Moroccan friend of mine said that the "new" King was changing the government mentality and started to invest in the Northern part of the country. Thats all good mind you, but during the Moroccan elections I watched Al Jazeera's coverage to find a different picture. Most of the poorest segments of Morrocan society have yet so see change. If you could show me statistics on a steep drop in poverty, I will admit that I am mistaken.

^^ Do actually expect that much structural change to happen in seven years???
The fact that aljazeera was actually allowed to cover these elections (which mind you were transparent) signals a vast change in policy.

^^ Do actually expect that much structural change to happen in seven years???
The fact that aljazeera was actually allowed to cover these elections (which mind you were transparent) signals a vast change in policy.

7 years is practically 2 presidential terms, in my mind thats enough time indeed.

The elections were transparent, but they had less than a 40% turnout. Do you know why? Because whoever wins its irrelevent, in the end the King runs the show.

It looks as if The Economist agrees with Matthias's opinion on Qadafi's son.

Libya

A Seif pair of hands?
Sep 20th 2007 | CYRENE
From The Economist print edition

Muammar Qaddafi's modernising son promotes his own plan for the future


THE ruling family seems to have a vision thing. It was 32 years ago that Colonel Muammar Qaddafi, still fresh from the coup of 1969 that toppled the previous dynasty, proclaimed his Third Universal Theory, aimed at turning Libya into a model of applied socialism and popular democracy. Now his son Seif al-Islam, seen by some as a likely successor to the leader, has unveiled a different kind of vision for his country. The younger Qaddafi proposes to turn some 2,000 square miles of it (nearly 5,000 square km) into a giant ecological park that he hails as “the world's first sustainable development” of a regional-scale environmentally sound model.

Reuters

The younger, greener QaddafiThe elder Qaddafi's vision, outlined in his famous “Green Book”, has not worked out quite as hoped. Despite its population of only 6m and the great wealth brought by having Africa's largest crude oil reserves, Libya has not markedly progressed. Notionally free public services, plus hefty state subsidies on food and housing, scarcely mask such ills as low educational standards, dirty streets, skimpy wages and a level of youth unemployment that some put at 40%. Instead of producing good government, Libya's unique political system has created rule-by-committee on a scale so bewildering that the only effective institutions are reckoned by many weary Libyans to be the Qaddafi clan and the pervasive, nasty and capricious secret police.

Yet Libya has lately been changing, in many ways for the better. Long scorned by Western nations for its involvement in terrorism during the 1980s, Mr Qaddafi's regime has slowly reingratiated itself. Having crushed a home-grown jihadist insurgency in the 1990s, it has joined America and its allies in the global struggle against al-Qaeda and its allies. Libya's sharing of intelligence, its decision in 2003 to scrap a secret nuclear-weapons programme, and its willingness to free five Bulgarian nurses whom its courts had sentenced to death for allegedly deliberately infecting hundreds of children with HIV/AIDS, have been rewarded by a sharp upgrading of diplomatic ties. America's secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, is expected soon, and Libya will also soon host UN-sponsored talks aimed at ending the Darfur crisis in neighbouring Sudan.


With high oil prices generating a windfall, and with Libya's energy potential still largely unfulfilled, the easing of political strains has heralded an influx of hopeful investors. The sole world-class hotel in the capital, Tripoli, is booked months in advance. Dozens of firms have swarmed to bid for concessions in the latest auction by Libya's oil ministry, which is offering some 41 gas and oil exploration blocks covering 72,000 square kilometres. The Libyan government is starting to spend, with big projects to revamp airports, roads and ports.

If Mr Qaddafi's son Seif has his way, some more fundamental revamping may be in store. Though he holds no official post except as head of a charity foundation, the younger Qaddafi has emerged as the champion of a kinder, gentler Libya. Last month, speaking before 20,000 youths in Libya's second-largest city, Benghazi, he called for Libya to adopt a constitution and to make both the judiciary and the central bank independent. A media company owned by The Engineer, as he is known because of a brief term as an architecture student, has promoted more openness by launching Libya's first non-state TV station and newspapers.

His idea of an ecological park, though limited to a single region, could represent an even bigger break with Libya's isolationist, xenophobic past. It would involve switching control of much of the desert country's most fertile region, known as the Green Mountain, to an agency that would implement state-of-the-art development plans forged by a bevy of consultants, scholars and engineers from abroad. Judging by the buzz at a party to launch the project amid the spectacular ruins of the ancient Greek city of Cyrene, these plans would involve everything from solar power generation to micro-finance to the building of posh “carbon-neutral” hotels.

This could all be nice for Libya, and for a scenic region whose current backwardness is due partly to its having been a centre of resistance, both against Italian invaders in the 1920s and to the Qaddafi regime. But as with The Engineer's other initiatives, it is not clear that his good intentions can produce more than cosmetic change. Seif al-Islam has several siblings. Some are closer to their father, and several are less nice than their visionary brother. It would be a shame if his green visions fade as palely as the Third Universal Theory.


http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9833466

7 years is practically 2 presidential terms, in my mind thats enough time indeed.

The elections were transparent, but they had less than a 40% turnout. Do you know why? Because whoever wins its irrelevent, in the end the King runs the show.

Im sorry but I have to disagree. The problem of poverty in Morocco is not solvable in 7 years, it would probably require 2 or 3 times the time not to mention effort. That being said, much effort is being deployed to help end poverty in urban and rural areas so that cant be ignored.

Im sorry but I have to disagree. The problem of poverty in Morocco is not solvable in 7 years, it would probably require 2 or 3 times the time not to mention effort. That being said, much effort is being deployed to help end poverty in urban and rural areas so that cant be ignored.

You must of misunderstood me, I didn't mean that the problem of poverty could be solved in 7 years but their could be a great improvment in that framework of time. Again according to the Al Jazeera report that I saw, stated that the poorest segments of society have yet to see an improvment. I hope what your saying is true, Moroccans are great people with a good sense of hospitality.

When I went to Agadir in the year 2000 a Moroccan friend of mine said that the "new" King was changing the government mentality and started to invest in the Northern part of the country. Thats all good mind you, but during the Moroccan elections I watched Al Jazeera's coverage to find a different picture. Most of the poorest segments of Morrocan society have yet so see change. If you could show me statistics on a steep drop in poverty, I will admit that I am mistaken.


Poverty is in every country in the world. 20 million people in the US live in poverty. Aljazeera can film everywhere in Morocco, in other countries were there is more poverty then in Morocco they are not allowed to film the slums and the poor people.

South Africa is richer then Morocco and still there is all lot of poverty and a lot of people live there in slums.

You can't solve the poverty in 7 years. The goverment builds now social housing for the poor people and wants to make every city in Morocco slum free. And they are building resorts so that the people can work there.

Why are you saying that I am a racist????

I am from Africa too. I am talking about the economy. Angola is one of the fastest growing economy in the world and Nigeria has an economic boom, but that is all because of the high oil price. If you economy is only depended on oil that is not good because that is not good for the micro economy and if the oil price fall you have a big problem.

The need more investments in other sectors then oil.

I hope from the bottom of my heart that Nigeria, Angola and other African Countries will become rich countries with good economy...

But Nigeria's other sectors like telecommunications, financial services are growing enormously. I also understand that mining and manufacturing sectors are also starting to take off, so if truth be told, the Nigerian economy is beginning to diversify away from oil. So i get the feeling that people are still dwelling on old stereotypes and not keeping up to date with what is happening now.

But Nigeria's other sectors like telecommunications, financial services are growing enormously. I also understand that mining and manufacturing sectors are also starting to take off, so if truth be told, the Nigerian economy is beginning to diversify away from oil. So i get the feeling that people are still dwelling on old stereotypes and not keeping up to date with what is happening now.

Kulani, Africa is moving but some stupid and closed-minded people simply don´t want to face this fact. Our worls has always been in motion and never stagnant.

I and a lot of economist don't agree with you. The only emerging countries in Africa are: South-Africa, Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco.

This countries have a growing economy, middle class, GDP, growing foreign investment etc. With all respect for Nigeria and Angola they have oil and the economy is doing good but this is all because of oil. They have no divers economy. And in 20/30 years the oil and gaz resources of this countries will be empty and then the wil have a big problem...

Oil is only good if you used it to stimulate other economy sectors. But if your economy is 90% depended on oil that is not good.


Misterdiz, , Look, don´t make me to hate you! your jealousy kills you, funny that you even kept out Algeria, your big brother, which could easily economically soak up entire Marocco! Stop spreading your lies about African countries you know aboslutely nothing about! it is horrendous what you are telling us here about Africa and african countries when the entire world knows that most of the bombers that viciously bombed more than 200 people to death in Spain were of Moroccan origin, So if you get nasty, I can do it, too! What about the bombings in Casablanca?? You dare to speak of poverty in other Africa nations when everybody knows that vast slums exist on you soil where Al Quaida recruits its next bombers from.


Moreover, your radicals want to bomb out all the NON-Muslims out of the country. So you will chop off the hand that feeds you. What will become of Morroco when all foreign capital looks for greener pastures, .... as opposed to the the other African countries that you (indirectly) spit upon ," le sol marocain est sec comme un raisin"!:bash:

Al-Qaida menace les Français du Maghreb
Laurent Suply (lefigaro.fr) avec AFP et AP.
Publié le 20 septembre 2007

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/20070920.WWW000000407_al_qaida_menace_les_francais_du_maghreb.html

I agree with you. I will take heed to that. I hope Matthias is able to leave the guy to his drivel and not give him the credibility he is looking for. Most of these threads are kept alive by us challenging people who have ulterior motives for making nonsensical statements.

Naijalove, I know that! Believe me, I want to stop but when I read such horrendous one-sided bullshit from narrow-minded people that come along in form of sheep but are poisonous snakes in reality, I cannot stop and I just have to refute their lies!


So Mod could you either delete this thread or close it?:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

But Nigeria's other sectors like telecommunications, financial services are growing enormously. I also understand that mining and manufacturing sectors are also starting to take off, so if truth be told, the Nigerian economy is beginning to diversify away from oil. So i get the feeling that people are still dwelling on old stereotypes and not keeping up to date with what is happening now.

If you start from a very low base its quite obvious that you'll have explosive growth. If 6 years ago no one had a mobile phone, you'll have a huge increase in phone ownership today, unless your in economic recession.

Misterdiz, , Look, don´t make me to hate you! your jealousy kills you, funny that you even kept out Algeria, your big brother, which could easily economically soak up entire Marocco! Stop spreading your lies about African countries you know aboslutely nothing about! it is horrendous what you are telling us here about Africa and african countries when the entire world knows that most of the bombers that viciously bombed more than 200 people to death in Spain were of Moroccan origin, So if you get nasty, I can do it, too! What about the bombings in Casablanca?? You dare to speak of poverty in other Africa nations when everybody knows that vast slums exist on you soil where Al Quaida recruits its next bombers from.


Moreover, your radicals want to bomb out all the NON-Muslims out of the country. So you will chop off the hand that feeds you. What will become of Morroco when all foreign capital looks for greener pastures, .... as opposed to the the other African countries that you (indirectly) spit upon ," le sol marocain est sec comme un raisin"!

And this pile of crap that you wrote is not onesided? If you are so sure of your arguments can you please explain morocco's 9.3% (CIA world factbook) economic growth in 2006. Dont act like countries such as nigeria, algeria, and angola are working hard for their economic growth, hydrocarbons are god's gift and its up to you what you do with them.

If you start from a very low base its quite obvious that you'll have explosive growth. If 6 years ago no one had a mobile phone, you'll have a huge increase in phone ownership today, unless your in economic recession.

Sure, but what do you expect of Nigeria's other sectors, they can not just wake up and be giants economic sectors overnight, it takes growth from a low base which is what is happening now. So in general any reasonable person will agree with me that Nigeria is diversifying and in some sectors it is doing so much faster (e.g. telecoms, financial services). Others are starting to take off like mining, construction, agro-processing, media etc.

Sure, but what do you expect of Nigeria's other sectors, they can not just wake up and be giants economic sectors overnight, it takes growth from a low base which is what is happening now. So in general any reasonable person will agree with me that Nigeria is diversifying and in some sectors it is doing so much faster (e.g. telecoms, financial services). Others are starting to take off like mining, construction, agro-processing, media etc.

Hence why I'm saying we should wait and see what happens. The key is long term sustainability, you can't judge "virgin" growth now and use it as a pretext for greatness, nor can you dismiss it. So without trying to sound like a repetetive parrot, we need to see if all this is sustainable and truly grabs a great junk of the Nigerian economy, away from Petroleum.

Lastly I don't think this thread should be locked, theirs great arguments on both sides that really haven't been adressed outside of this topic. We just need to stop baseless insults.

Sure, but what do you expect of Nigeria's other sectors, they can not just wake up and be giants economic sectors overnight, it takes growth from a low base which is what is happening now. So in general any reasonable person will agree with me that Nigeria is diversifying and in some sectors it is doing so much faster (e.g. telecoms, financial services). Others are starting to take off like mining, construction, agro-processing, media etc.

Kulani, I agree with what you said but surprsingly some people are looking for ways to point to the fact that Nigeria is "starting from a low base" at the same time they look to India and Vietnam and shout out:" Oh my God, what an incredible fantatstic boom is happening over there. So many new telecom subscribers and the like." This perfectly lays bare their shallow arguments.

Hence why I'm saying we should wait and see what happens. The key is long term sustainability, you can't judge "virgin" growth now and use it as a pretext for greatness, nor can you dismiss it. So without trying to sound like a repetetive parrot, we need to see if all this is sustainable and truly grabs a great junk of the Nigerian economy, away from Petroleum.

Alex, i am in the telecommunications sector and operate a telecoms company expanding into Africa, it is no secret today that Nigeria is the fastest growing telecoms market in the middle east and Africa if not in the whole world. Today penetration stands at around 23% with more than 30 million having mobile phones in Nigeria. Every mobile operator is falling over themselves to enter this market from the middle east, europe and africa. You can talk to any self respecting telecoms analyst with some understanding of the sector and you will see that this sector is no small fries and is going places. Companies like Globacom are laying $600 million sub-marine fiber cables to connect West Africa with Europe and the rest of the world in high-speed internet. As i speak, i am scouting Nigeria for a telecoms license and will be in Abuja in a few weeks for this.

Talking of banking, a number of banks in Nigeria entered the global 2000 bank ranking by The Banker and Financial Times of London last year thanks to the bold reforms started by the Central Bank of Nigeria and its capable governor. The fastest growing banks in the world are also coming from Nigeria and they are being recognized by such reputable sources as The Banker, Financial Times and The economist. And the growth is being safe-guarded by strong reforms and regulatory frameworks that are being continuously fine tuned by the CBN and govt.

In the telecoms sector, giant companies are emerging with annual turnovers of over $2.5 billion. In the banking sector, i have seen Nigerian banks that are making over $300 million in profits. Now if you don't see those sectors as having come of age and a sign of Nigeria's diversification, i don't know what will convince you. I am one of the people who have been calling for faster diversification especially in sectors like mining and agro-processing which are easy picks and can be developed much faster than say manufacturing.

Alex, i am in the telecommunications sector and operate a telecoms company expanding into Africa, it is no secret today that Nigeria is the fastest growing telecoms market in the middle east and Africa if not in the whole world. Today penetration stands at around 23% with more than 30 million having mobile phones in Nigeria. Every mobile operator is falling over themselves to enter this market from the middle east, europe and africa. You can talk to any self respecting telecoms analyst with some understanding of the sector and you will see that this sector is no small fries and is going places. Companies like Globacom are laying $600 million sub-marine fiber cables to connect West Africa with Europe and the rest of the world in high-speed internet. As i speak, i am scouting Nigeria for a telecoms license and will be in Abuja in a few weeks for this.

Talking of banking, a number of banks in Nigeria entered the global 2000 bank ranking by The Banker and Financial Times of London last year thanks to the bold reforms started by the Central Bank of Nigeria and its capable governor. The fastest growing banks in the world are also coming from Nigeria and they are being recognized by such reputable sources as The Banker, Financial Times and The economist. And the growth is being safe-guarded by strong reforms and regulatory frameworks that are being continuously fine tuned by the CBN and govt.

In the telecoms sector, giant companies are emerging with annual turnovers of over $2.5 billion. In the banking sector, i have seen Nigerian banks that are making over $300 million in profits. Now if you don't see those sectors as having come of age and a sign of Nigeria's diversification, i don't know what will convince you. I am one of the people who have been calling for faster diversification especially in sectors like mining and agro-processing which are easy picks and can be developed much faster than say manufacturing.

Of course Mobile phone operators are trying hard to hit the Nigerian and Sub Saharan market, its simple economics. Why go the U.S where theirs a mobile phone every person when in Nigeria, its a a ratio of 5 people for every mobile phone. It's explosive growth, your company is probably doing real well since its a sector full of growth. Not only for middle class and the wealthy but the poor as well. Poor farmers are now using mobile phones in Africa. My point is how is this different from any other emerging market? The only difference is that Africa is further behind in this regard, so higher growth is expected. As you were probably taught in "Economics 101" the market always corrects itself.

With regards to the banking sector, I agree with everything you said. Alot of it is how those banks will be put to use and the programs to help the poorest and ambitious. Microcredit programs to the poor, small busineses and entrapaneurs is a necessity. When I was 19 (only 4 years ago lol) a friend of mine worked a summer at the Royal Bank of Scotland, they tried to open an office in Lagos but were hounded by bureacracy and obscene government restrictions to protect local busineses. Today I think their only presence in Africa is SA. It's only one example and it could be an unfair one, so I'll just leave it at that.

Kulani here's an article for you.

Nigeria: Diversifying the Economy



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Leadership (Abuja)

OPINION
20 September 2007
Posted to the web 20 September 2007

Abba Mahmood


There are lots of problems and virtually every sector of the Nigerian nation require urgent attention. In the last eight years, it is not only Obasanjo that should be blamed. Most of the State Governors and virtually all the Local government Chairmen did nothing to address fundamental issues. And the worst thing is that Nigeria has never earned so much as from 1999 to date but the poverty level has never been so high. What an irony!

For anyone to know whether he or she is progressing or not, he or she has to compare with others, so that in relative terms, one can know his or her position. It is also the same thing with nations. For Nigeria, from October 1960 to May 2007, all the leaders we have had, belong to those who were either in Politics or in the military from 1960 - 1966. No wonder, they had the same ideas and the same ways of confronting the same recurring problems in all these years. And these solutions have not been successful so far.


In the next few days, our beloved country will be celebrating her 47th independence anniversary. It is a most auspicious time to reflect, take stock and continue with the few things we are doing right and review those we are getting wrong. For all these years, every successive government has been talking about Nigeria's potential greatness but none has taken us to actual greatness. A fool at 40 is a fool forever, says an English adage. If, we are now approaching 50 years as a nation and we are still acting stupid, what will the English language say about us then?

Whenever it is said in numerous conferences or seminars that Nigeria is lagging behind some American or European countries, I don't bother because we are operating at different frequencies, so to say. But when we are lagging behind any African country, my heart "bleeds because, ours, is supposed to be the greatest black nation on earth.

For instance, Egypt, with a population of 75 million has two million police men to keep peace and order. Nigeria, with a population of 140 million people has a police force of less than 300,000 men and women. No tourist is affraid of going anywhere at anytime in Egypt because their crime rate and robbery cases are virtually nil. So, how can we talk of tourism and its potentials in Nigeria when no one is secured even in Abuja, the nation's capital?

Cairo, which has a population of about 20 million is kept clean, has roads that do not have pot holes and 24 hours electricity supply. In fact, Egypt generates 27,OOOMW and adds 3,000MW annually. Nigeria is still trying to generate 3,000MW and even the streets of Abuja has areas with potholes with no efficient waste management. We are riding the latest limousines on dusty roads in most of our cities and towns. What a pity!!

Over 90 percent of the land in Egypt is desert. That country relies on the Nile River for almost all of its water requirement. In fact, there is no rain in Cairo, all year round. All the trees there were planted and watered to maturity. Yet, they feed themselves and even export agricultural products. Here, there is no part of Nigeria that does not have rain or agricultural potentials. And most of our forests came about naturally and not through our making. But we still import a lot of our basic needs. Are we really independent?

Nigeria has variety of foods. No doubt. But all our foods and the methods of preparation have not been developed to international standards as the Chinese have restaurants in almost every city in the world. In 1988, I attended a Better Life for Rural Women fair at Tafawa Balewa Square in Lagos. From one state, the old Borno, there were 58 different varieties of local snacks prepared by local women. How many of our young girls know how to prepare any of these? They only kill us, where available, with half-done and half baked rice, tuwo, garri and amala. Is anyone still wondering why we are still mal-nourished and under-nourished?

Whenever there is poverty and unemployment, government has at least three ways of addressing these. One way is to create employment through intervention agencies such as the old Petroleum Trust Fund (PTF) with multiplier effect on the whole economy. Our government is now retrenching public servants for no other reason than what they call "right-sizing" in the name of reform". The reform agenda even sends soldiers and police men and women who have been trained to handle arms into the labour market and in most cases with no entitlements. If they are tired of looking for their pension and other entitlements and they are tired of begging what does the government expect them to do?

Relevant Links

West Africa
Economy, Business and Finance
Nigeria



The second way to reduce poverty is to increase the capacity of the private sector to absorb the huge number of unemployed. In our own case, this is also constrained by lack of electricity and basic infrastructure. There is no way any sector can survive let alone expand its capacity without basic infrastructure like power, water, roads and telecommunications. Even the GSM service being branded as a major dividend of democracy is very frustrating most of the times where it is available.

The third and, in our own case, most realistic way to reduce poverty and unemployment is to develop agriculture. There is no local government in Nigeria that does not have agriculture potentials. The ministries of Agriculture at Federal and State levels as well as river basin authorities should be alive to their responsibilities. Instead of distributing fertilizers, they should brace up to make agriculture the mainstay of our economy, being the greatest contributor to our GDP, at present, about 40 percent.

This government must chart a new course for our economic revival. Agriculture in its totality must be given serious consideration. Solid minerals must also be developed. Tourism is also a very important sector even globally. But all these can not be achieved unless there is conducive atmosphere- good roads, adequate security, availability of potable water and electricity as well as strict adherence to the rule of law. Fortunately, the government has committed itself to these. We are waiting for practical actualisaton from this first non- 1960's leadership.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200709200903.html

I'm all for developing a robust agriculture sector, but it shouldn't be the only alternative. This day in age manufacturing should play apart, what if conditions on year aren't variable for a good harvest? Plus Manufacturing ussually creates urban employment and with Africa's urbanization it seems fitting.

A good and insightful article showing the steep slope that Nigeria needs to climb.

A good and insightful article showing the steep slope that Nigeria needs to climb.

Guys, everyone is well aware of the challenges that Nigeria faces, but the tide is beginning to change and the economy is diversifying quickly. The new government of President Yar'Ardua appears to be determined and committed to tackling head-on the challenges of infrastructure, security and bureaucracy while it moves to reform most of the economic sectors including mining, energy, oil, banking, telecoms and agriculture.

Kulani, Africa is moving but some stupid and closed-minded people simply don´t want to face this fact. Our worls has always been in motion and never stagnant.




Misterdiz, , Look, don´t make me to hate you! your jealousy kills you, funny that you even kept out Algeria, your big brother, which could easily economically soak up entire Marocco! Stop spreading your lies about African countries you know aboslutely nothing about! it is horrendous what you are telling us here about Africa and african countries when the entire world knows that most of the bombers that viciously bombed more than 200 people to death in Spain were of Moroccan origin, So if you get nasty, I can do it, too! What about the bombings in Casablanca?? You dare to speak of poverty in other Africa nations when everybody knows that vast slums exist on you soil where Al Quaida recruits its next bombers from.


Moreover, your radicals want to bomb out all the NON-Muslims out of the country. So you will chop off the hand that feeds you. What will become of Morroco when all foreign capital looks for greener pastures, .... as opposed to the the other African countries that you (indirectly) spit upon ," le sol marocain est sec comme un raisin"!:bash:




Naijalove, I know that! Believe me, I want to stop but when I read such horrendous one-sided bullshit from narrow-minded people that come along in form of sheep but are poisonous snakes in reality, I cannot stop and I just have to refute their lies!


So Mod could you either delete this thread or close it?:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

It is very sad that your are thinking like that.

I don't know why you are so angry about me. I love Africa and I am an African. We are talking about economy and not about political issues.

What I am saying is that countries who only are depended on oil will have a big problem if the don't invest in other sectors then oil. I am not talking only about African countries with oil but all countries in the world with only oil as the only economy like Venzuela, Saudi-Arabia etc.

What Angola is doing is very very good. They want to do the same as Dubai . Angola is one of the fastest growing economy in the world, and alle sectors are doing good. They use the oil money to invest in other sectors. The micro and macro economy are doing very good. I think Angola will be one of the top countries in Africa.

Guys, everyone is well aware of the challenges that Nigeria faces, but the tide is beginning to change and the economy is diversifying quickly. The new government of President Yar'Ardua appears to be determined and committed to tackling head-on the challenges of infrastructure, security and bureaucracy while it moves to reform most of the economic sectors including mining, energy, oil, banking, telecoms and agriculture.


Good for Nigeria. I have heard that Nigeria will have an economic boom in the future...

Kulani, I agree with what you said but surprsingly some people are looking for ways to point to the fact that Nigeria is "starting from a low base" at the same time they look to India and Vietnam and shout out:" Oh my God, what an incredible fantatstic boom is happening over there. So many new telecom subscribers and the like." This perfectly lays bare their shallow arguments.

Your are wrong. India has an economic boom but all lot of people live in poverty. It is only a small part who is getting very rich.

That is the same for China.

But good things about this countries is that they are not dependend on oil, gaz etc and that all sectors are doing very good. The economic boom is India is because of the IT sector and manifacturing sector. In China is that because of the manifacturing sector. That is why they are regarded as emerging countries...

stop stop stop stop this dog-on bickering and start REASONING OUT AND DISCUSSING!!!! how hard is that? 80% of this thread is not informative and lacks perspective. i have my own points and opinions but i cant post them here bcoz it is now an arguement instead of a discussion. am i the only one who can see this? moderator do your job please.

could y'all stp arguin n mke this forum constructive

Kulani, Africa is moving but some stupid and closed-minded people simply don´t want to face this fact. Our worls has always been in motion and never stagnant.




Misterdiz, , Look, don´t make me to hate you! your jealousy kills you, funny that you even kept out Algeria, your big brother, which could easily economically soak up entire Marocco! Stop spreading your lies about African countries you know aboslutely nothing about! it is horrendous what you are telling us here about Africa and african countries when the entire world knows that most of the bombers that viciously bombed more than 200 people to death in Spain were of Moroccan origin, So if you get nasty, I can do it, too! What about the bombings in Casablanca?? You dare to speak of poverty in other Africa nations when everybody knows that vast slums exist on you soil where Al Quaida recruits its next bombers from.


Moreover, your radicals want to bomb out all the NON-Muslims out of the country. So you will chop off the hand that feeds you. What will become of Morroco when all foreign capital looks for greener pastures, .... as opposed to the the other African countries that you (indirectly) spit upon ," le sol marocain est sec comme un raisin"!:bash:




Naijalove, I know that! Believe me, I want to stop but when I read such horrendous one-sided bullshit from narrow-minded people that come along in form of sheep but are poisonous snakes in reality, I cannot stop and I just have to refute their lies!


So Mod could you either delete this thread or close it?:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:


Rural poverty in Nigeria

Despite its plentiful resources and oil wealth, poverty is widespread in Nigeria. The situation has worsened since the late 1990s, to the extent that the country is now considered one of the 20 poorest countries in the world. Over 70 per cent of the population is classified as poor, with 35 per cent living in absolute poverty.

Poverty is especially severe in rural areas, where social services and infrastructure are limited or non-existent. The great majority of those who live in rural areas are poor and depend on agriculture for food and income. About 90 per cent of the country’s food is produced by small-scale farmers cultivating tiny plots of land who depend on rainfall rather than irrigation systems. Surveys show that across the country 44 per cent of male farmers and 72 per cent of female farmers cultivate less than 1 ha per household. Women play a major role in the production, processing and marketing of food crops. The poorest groups eke out a subsistence living but often go short of food, particularly during the pre-harvest period. A high proportion of rural people suffer from malnutrition and other diseases related to poor nutrition. The HIV/AIDS pandemic has also taken a heavy toll among the rural population.

Who are Nigeria’s rural poor people?



Women and households headed by women are frequently the most chronically poor within rural communities. Women have lower social status than men and consequently less access to schooling and training, particularly in childcare and health practices. Yet women play significant roles in rural economic activities. While the number of men migrating from rural areas in search of employment has increased over the last decades, the number of households headed by women has risen substantially. Women struggle to cope as the burden of work, at home and in the fields, falls on their shoulders. Malnutrition is a frequent problem in these households.

Other vulnerable groups among rural poor people are young couples with children, the disabled, and old people with no relatives to support them.

Where are Nigeria’s rural poor people?



Rural poverty tends to be evenly distributed across the country, rather than concentrated in specific geographic areas. However, in some zones the poverty situation threatens to worsen considerably, such as in the northern area bordering the Niger, which is arid, marginal to agriculture, environmentally damaged and densely populated. The fishing communities living in the mangrove swamps and along the Atlantic coast are among the poorest in Nigeria.

Why are they poor?

Rural infrastructure in Nigeria has long been neglected, while investments in health, education and water supply have largely been focused on the cities. As a result, the rural population has extremely limited access to services such as schools and health centres, and about half of the population lacks access to safe drinking water. Limited education opportunities and poor health perpetuate the poverty cycle.

Neglect of rural infrastructure has also reduced the profitability of producing for the markets. Nigeria’s rural road network is one of the least developed in sub-Saharan Africa. The poor tend to live in isolated villages that can become virtually inaccessible during the rainy seasons. When there is a post-harvest marketable surplus, it is not always easy to reach the markets. Limited accessibility has also cut off small-scale farmers from sources of inputs, equipment and new technology. Crop yields are low because farmers lack these inputs. In particular, inadequate access to fertilizer is a real problem in many parts of the country where farmers have to cope with diminishing soil fertility. The situation is aggravated by the fact that many farmers have access only to small parcels of land for cultivation.

As the population swells and puts pressure on diminishing resources, escalating environmental problems further threaten food production. Land degradation, as a result of extensive agriculture, deforestation and overgrazing, is already at an alarming level in many parts of the country. Drought has become common in the north, while in the south and south-east erosion provoked by heavy rains, floods and oil pollution is a major problem. Large parts of Nigeria’s primary forests, and the wildlife that they harbour, are disappearing.

Civil unrest aggravates poverty

Poverty and violence are often closely interconnected. Both religious and ethnic tensions continue to brew in different parts of Nigeria, erupting into outbreaks of violence and leading in turn to a situation of escalating poverty and malnutrition. The move towards political liberalization has allowed militants from religious and ethnic groups to express their frustrations more freely, and with increasing violence. Thousands have died over the past years in clashes between different ethnic and religious groups and separatist bids for independence. Since 1999, violence between Christians and Muslims has become increasingly common.

In the Niger delta, where the oil industry is based, a vigorous trade in stolen oil has led to a serious breakdown of law and order in that area. A number of acts of sabotage have been carried out against the multinational oil companies by groups seeking a greater share of the oil resources for the Niger delta population.

Source: IFAD

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/english/regions/africa/nga/index.htm


Matthias, you can only attack people. We are talking about economies and Matthias is only attacking people and countries and calling their names. You have no respect...

Rural poverty in Nigeria

Despite its plentiful resources and oil wealth, poverty is widespread in Nigeria. The situation has worsened since the late 1990s, to the extent that the country is now considered one of the 20 poorest countries in the world. Over 70 per cent of the population is classified as poor, with 35 per cent living in absolute poverty.

Poverty is especially severe in rural areas, where social services and infrastructure are limited or non-existent. The great majority of those who live in rural areas are poor and depend on agriculture for food and income. About 90 per cent of the country’s food is produced by small-scale farmers cultivating tiny plots of land who depend on rainfall rather than irrigation systems. Surveys show that across the country 44 per cent of male farmers and 72 per cent of female farmers cultivate less than 1 ha per household. Women play a major role in the production, processing and marketing of food crops. The poorest groups eke out a subsistence living but often go short of food, particularly during the pre-harvest period. A high proportion of rural people suffer from malnutrition and other diseases related to poor nutrition. The HIV/AIDS pandemic has also taken a heavy toll among the rural population.

Who are Nigeria’s rural poor people?



Women and households headed by women are frequently the most chronically poor within rural communities. Women have lower social status than men and consequently less access to schooling and training, particularly in childcare and health practices. Yet women play significant roles in rural economic activities. While the number of men migrating from rural areas in search of employment has increased over the last decades, the number of households headed by women has risen substantially. Women struggle to cope as the burden of work, at home and in the fields, falls on their shoulders. Malnutrition is a frequent problem in these households.

Other vulnerable groups among rural poor people are young couples with children, the disabled, and old people with no relatives to support them.

Where are Nigeria’s rural poor people?



Rural poverty tends to be evenly distributed across the country, rather than concentrated in specific geographic areas. However, in some zones the poverty situation threatens to worsen considerably, such as in the northern area bordering the Niger, which is arid, marginal to agriculture, environmentally damaged and densely populated. The fishing communities living in the mangrove swamps and along the Atlantic coast are among the poorest in Nigeria.

Why are they poor?

Rural infrastructure in Nigeria has long been neglected, while investments in health, education and water supply have largely been focused on the cities. As a result, the rural population has extremely limited access to services such as schools and health centres, and about half of the population lacks access to safe drinking water. Limited education opportunities and poor health perpetuate the poverty cycle.

Neglect of rural infrastructure has also reduced the profitability of producing for the markets. Nigeria’s rural road network is one of the least developed in sub-Saharan Africa. The poor tend to live in isolated villages that can become virtually inaccessible during the rainy seasons. When there is a post-harvest marketable surplus, it is not always easy to reach the markets. Limited accessibility has also cut off small-scale farmers from sources of inputs, equipment and new technology. Crop yields are low because farmers lack these inputs. In particular, inadequate access to fertilizer is a real problem in many parts of the country where farmers have to cope with diminishing soil fertility. The situation is aggravated by the fact that many farmers have access only to small parcels of land for cultivation.

As the population swells and puts pressure on diminishing resources, escalating environmental problems further threaten food production. Land degradation, as a result of extensive agriculture, deforestation and overgrazing, is already at an alarming level in many parts of the country. Drought has become common in the north, while in the south and south-east erosion provoked by heavy rains, floods and oil pollution is a major problem. Large parts of Nigeria’s primary forests, and the wildlife that they harbour, are disappearing.

Civil unrest aggravates poverty

Poverty and violence are often closely interconnected. Both religious and ethnic tensions continue to brew in different parts of Nigeria, erupting into outbreaks of violence and leading in turn to a situation of escalating poverty and malnutrition. The move towards political liberalization has allowed militants from religious and ethnic groups to express their frustrations more freely, and with increasing violence. Thousands have died over the past years in clashes between different ethnic and religious groups and separatist bids for independence. Since 1999, violence between Christians and Muslims has become increasingly common.

In the Niger delta, where the oil industry is based, a vigorous trade in stolen oil has led to a serious breakdown of law and order in that area. A number of acts of sabotage have been carried out against the multinational oil companies by groups seeking a greater share of the oil resources for the Niger delta population.

Source: IFAD

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/english/regions/africa/nga/index.htm


Matthias, you can only attack people. We are talking about economies and Matthias is only attacking people and countries and calling their names. You have no respect...

Why do you always post these old articles? What's with the african forum, why does every thread turn into a political battle ground?

o.k so wht does wht u have jst posted have to do with the economy..huh mister 79..infact wht country r u 4rm

The problem with many discussions on this forum is that they all end up being a question of individuals arguing about whose country is doing better or will do better with no facts. I can argue that Kenya has better infrustructure than South Africa but it will not make it true. A South African can also argue correctly that South Africa is the richest country in Africa but ignore the fact that it has one of the largest income gaps in the world. Nigeria for all it's oil resources remains a country that has alot to do to become a middle class economy and the same holds true for many African countries including Kenya.
Interlectual dishonesty is a major problem in Africa because it leads to pointing fingers and no real action. When Barrack Obama visited Kenya, he said that corruption had stiffled Kenya's grawth since we were at the same economic level with countries like Singapore 30 years ago but we did not continue to grow as much as the Asian tiger economies. Many powerfull Kenyans were not happy with Mr Obama's statements because he was pointing his finger at them so they chose to discredit his remarks with statements that would make a first year economics student blush with shame.
My point is we can continue to have this endless discussions with arguments that have no factual basis or we can honestly acknowledge that our countries are not doing as well as they should be. Making statements about how many rich people live in a country whose living standards are among the worst in the world does not do this discussion any good because we all know that most of the poorest people live in sub Saharan Africa.

i think the thread is taking a different direction, it's okay to discuss about respective economies but not to malign other economies their people country or culture etc

Why do you always post these old articles? What's with the african forum, why does every thread turn into a political battle ground?

Igbowarrior, let´s just do like Naijalove said: IGNORANCE IS THE BEST AND ONLY WEAPON to confront people like Misterdz and the like. (although it will be hard to turn a blind eye to their unreflected and one-sided crab talk). Surprisingly, they all want the "happy and lalal talsk2 on their own sub-forums but can only point to the negative while coming to our own sub-forum. They can go on with their countless posts on "Africa is bad and infinitely poor, Africa is horribly under-developped, it will never improve all the :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:
They are talking to themselves and inwardly long for Africa´s failure ´cos this reinforces them in their conceptions they hold on Africa.
Various people are shamelessly prejudiced against Africa. We cannot change them in their evil-heartedness! It´s just like that.

As Mathiias stated, Mister79 and his other cohorts will say crap things about Nigeria, when infact their country does not fare any better. I watched a documentary not long a go about how Morocco represents a vast recruiting ground for Al Quaida. At least Nigeria may be poor, It is not poor enough for Al Quaida to recruit from.

Take a look below Mister79

Morocco and Terrorism
Submitted by K Prabhakar Rao on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 15:31. al qaeda Fanaticism & Terrorism Karim Mejjati morocco terrorism

Prof Dr Colonel (Retired) K Prabhakar Rao



The word Morocco is directly derived from the Amazigh word Mur-Akush meaning Land of God. The full Arabic name of Morocco, Al-Mamlaka al-Maghribiya, translates to "The Western Kingdom". Al Maghrib (meaning "The West") is commonly used. For historical references, historians used to refer to Morocco as Al Maghrib al Aqşá ("The Farthest West"), disambiguating it from the historical region called the Maghreb. The name "Morocco" in many other languages originates from the name of the former capital, Marrakech (1). Morocco is a North West African country that is very close to Europe near Spain. It is neighbored by Algeria and Western Sahara and is strategically very important. It is separated from Spain in Europe by Straits of Gibraltar in Mediterranean Sea separating from Atlantic Ocean. It has long Atlantic coast. Muslims occupied Spain in medieval times through these narrow straits and established rule of Moors and finally they were driven out by Francs. AlQaeda leadership claims Spain as a land of Islam and is waging Jihad against it. Morocco is a strong ally of USA and is maintaining cordial relations eversince American independence. It has the oldest functional friendship treaty signed by legendary President John Adams and Jefferson with Moroccan King of the period. However it expressed its opposition to American war on Iraq stating that it would antagonize Muslim fundamentalists in the country.

Recent spread of terrorism globally had its own effects in Morocco too. AlQaeda that has spread its tentacles world wide particularly in backward Muslim countries has also targeted Morocco as one of its centers. Morocco has good tourist potential and many tourists visit the country and the government is pro American. This has inspired the AlQaeda net work to initiate suicide attacks on European tourists and poor Moroccans too get killed in these mindless acts. At least 45 people have been killed and about 100 injured in suicide bomb attacks in Morocco's largest city, Casablanca, local officials say the attacks on May 16, 2003 Friday night targeted a Jewish community centre, a Spanish restaurant and social club, a hotel and the Belgian consulate. Five explosions occurred within 30 minutes of each other. A Moroccan Government official said all the blasts were triggered by suicide bombers carrying explosives. At least six Europeans - two Spaniards, two Italians and two French - were also killed, a senior hospital official said. The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner says there are indications that the Casablanca blasts were al-Qaeda inspired - and were probably the work of a "North African cell linked to al-Qaeda (2).

In the post-Sept. 11 world, Karim Mejjati, former medical student from Morocco was the notorious and prominent undercover al Qaeda operative. The son of a French mother and Moroccan father, Mejjati had a privileged upbringing in Casablanca. He attended an exclusive French-language school and, at his father's urging, applied to medical school in France. He could speak several languages, had many passports and excelled at building bombs. He was also good at avoiding attention as he crisscrossed four continents to organize a wave of catastrophic attacks. On May 12, 2003, an Al Qaeda network that investigators say was put together by Mejjati in Saudi Arabia blew up three residential compounds for foreign workers in Riyadh, leaving 23 dead. Less than a week later, about 3,000 miles away, suicide bombers trained by Mejjati carried out the deadliest terrorist attacks in Moroccan history, killing 45 people in Casablanca. For the next two years, authorities in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and North America pressed a secret but intensive global manhunt for the French-schooled suspect, fearing that he had set up other al Qaeda sleeper cells that had yet to be activated. Saudi Arabia put him near the top of its list of most wanted terrorism suspects. In Morocco, he was sentenced in absentia to 20 years for the Casablanca bombings. The FBI named him in a global anti-terrorism alert, warning that he was suspected of planning attacks in the United States. According to investigators, his success in organizing terrorist networks in multiple countries is clear evidence that al Qaeda can still order devastating attacks around the world, even though most of its commanders have been killed or on the run since Sept. 11, 2001. The search for Mejjati, 37, ended in a small town in the heart of Saudi Arabia when he was killed in a gun battle with security forces who stumbled on his hideout. Now, investigators trying to retrace his footsteps acknowledge that they still do not know how many more sleeper cells the well-educated explosives expert may have created.

"They need guys like him in the field in order to remain effective," said Mohammed Darif, a political science professor at Mohammedia University in Morocco, who is an expert on Islamic radicals in the country and has studied Mejjati's background. "He was very valuable for them. They could use him in different places and rely on him to complete the job."

U.S. officials have said that the direct threat posed by al Qaeda's central leadership has diminished and that it has taken on a different role of providing encouragement, but little concrete assistance, to local cells or networks that plan attacks on their own. On Wednesday, in its annual report on global terrorism trends, the State Department said the shift illustrates "what many analysts believe is a new phase of the global war on terrorism, one in which local groups inspired by al Qaeda organize and carry out attacks with little or no support or direction from al Qaeda itself."

But an examination of Mejjati's role in organizing cells in Saudi Arabia, Morocco and possibly Spain -- three of the countries hardest hit by Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11 -- challenges that assumption. In interviews, security officials in Saudi Arabia said that Mejjati was dispatched from Afghanistan by top al Qaeda leaders in 2002 to help recruit and train a network of cells dedicated to overthrowing the Saudi royal family. Saudi officials said Mejjati served as the general strategist to the network's first chief, Yusuf Ayeri, who reported directly to al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden. Starting with the May 2003 bombing in Riyadh, the network has rattled the kingdom with a series of explosions, kidnappings and beheadings that have taken more than 90 lives and contributed to a global rise in oil prices. In Morocco, counterterrorism officials said Mejjati provided explosives training to a cell of Islamic radicals recruited from the slums surrounding Casablanca. (In fact Muslim slums around the world provide good hunting grounds for the recruitment by Islamic terrorists. Morocco is no exception. This is due to the fact that poor Muslims invariably blame all others for their economic and social backwardness setting aside their own inherited short comings by virtue of religious fundamentalism and narrow outlook on all matters) At first, investigators thought the operation was conceived and planned locally. But a suspect who later divulged Mejjati's name to interrogators led them to conclude that those responsible for the attacks were taking their cues from al Qaeda's top leadership.

Some U.S. and European officials say they believe Mejjati may also have been involved in the planning of the March 11, 2004, bombings of four commuter trains in Madrid in which 191 people were killed and more than 1,800 were wounded, although other investigators disagree. Spanish authorities have not issued an indictment against him. A local cell consisting mostly of Moroccan immigrants is believed to have carried out the attacks, but Spanish investigators have been unable to determine whether they acted on their own or took orders from al Qaeda middlemen such as Mejjati (4).

But there are sane persons and parties in Morocco who oppose fundamentalism and jihad and terrorism. "Moroccan voters have to choose between those who seek to push Morocco into a dark tunnel of obscurantism, hatred and war of religious sects and those who defend democracy and progress," said Socialist Union of Popular Forces chief Mohamed El Yazghi. North Africa has been on alert since al Qaeda's regional wing, Algeria-based Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb, threatened to step up its war against "corrupt" Maghreb rulers and their Western allies. Seven Al-Qaeda-inspired suicide bombers blew themselves up in Casablanca, killing themselves and one police officer. A 30-year-old man tried but failed to blow himself up on a bus with foreign tourists at Meknes, 130 km from Rabat. Neither Al Qaeda in the Maghreb nor the cells linked to it in the region have a precise
political agenda. Moroccan secularist and Socialist politicians earlier launched the two-week campaign during which they will tried to trim the Islamist Justice and Development party (PJD)'s advance by linking the party to terrorism. As it is PJD has been dogged by suspicions it has a hidden agenda to turn Morocco into a purist Islamist state. They argued PJD, though it was not linked directly to terrorism, advocated an "ideology feeding terrorism". However PJD leaders say they are staunch opponents of radical Islamists and violence. "We are all part of the same front against terrorism, whether we are leftists or Islamists. We are all committed to protect the country," said Lahcen Daoudi, top PJD official. "Social misery, poverty and unemployment are factors which push youth to extremism. We in the PJD are aware that we must explain to the people that violence is useless," he added (4).

Morocco thus is also an active scene for AlQaeda inspired terrorist activities. It being very close to Europe near Spain draws many tourists and thus terrorists are targeting the foreign nationals like Jews, Europeans and Americans who go there on holidaying or on business. The government takes anti terrorist actions. The progressive Muslim nations that are with America are seen as the greatest villains by Al Qaeda and are targeted. This is the Wahabi spirit. Any one who does not subscribe to their understanding of Islam is the enemy and they are targeted. Thus AlQaeda targets Christian nations and other Muslim nations too who are progressive and are not with them. Therefore AlQaeda leadership establishes its cells and motivates Muslim fundamentalists and inspires them to attack Christians and Jews in these countries and thus is most dangerous. An important point to note now is the latest statements of Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin laden (Believing he is still alive and kicking although many are of opinion that he is already dead either in Tora Bora bombings or due to sickness) in a tape released by American authorities. Bin Laden is exhorting all Americans to convert to Islam as a condition to stop his activities against them. This is no doubt ridiculous and can not be accepted and will not be accepted by the Americans. The bitterness will further grow. This is coercive religious conversion. In India in medieval times Islamic invaders resorted to conversion of defeated at the point of sword. What a ridiculous appeal? With this, the struggle against terrorism would take a new turn as a struggle of Islam against Christians. Will democrats who are up in arms and taken up cudgels against President George W Bush accept this advice from Bin Laden for conversion to Islam after they become rulers once George Bush goes to save their skins? The present struggles can get switched over as crusades. All Muslims are not terrorists. But most of the terrorists are Muslims. Appeal of Bin Laden would be brushed aside as insane statements from a perverted and sadistic fundamentalist. Probably most of the leaders would do same including the progressive Islamic states. A country like Morocco would laugh it off and take clubs against terrorists and AlQaeda men and these struggles would be long drawn ones till these mad men are eliminated with a bullet in their head. Thankfully Morocco is a close ally of USA. But this is the strong reason for its suffering at the hands of insane terrorists.



Bibliography

1. Morocco, Wikepedia, free encyclopedia, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:0l9XGssiIzUJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Morocco+morocco&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=in

2. Terror blasts rock Casablanca, BBC news/Africa, Saturday, 17 May, 2003, 16:44 GMT 17:44 UK http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:5oEawhrhYZgJ:news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3035803.stm

+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4

3. Craig Whitlock, Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, May 2, 2005; Page A01 Odyssey of an AlQaeda operative, News week, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/01/AR2005050100947.html

4. Lamine Ghanmi, Islamists to gain despite Qaeda fears, Date: August 27, 2007, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:IffTl_pxOssJ:www.kuwaittimes.net/

read_news.php%3Fnewsid%3DNDE1NjQ2OA%3D%3D+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10

pfff strange people ''nationalist''

Matthias was the first who attacked Morocco and the people and said bad things about them. I have never attacked Nigeria or the people. I have great respect for the Nigerian people. I know that Nigeria is doing very good just like Angola. I hope that alle the people will profit of the economy and get it better.

I have only said things about proverty and about the economy. Morocco has proverty just like other countries there are a lot of people who are not happy. That is not a secret.

But I don't know why Matthias attacked Morocco and the people and said very nasty things about them.

We are talking about economy but some crazy people are only making fun of other people and nations...

As Mathiias stated, Mister79 and his other cohorts will say crap things about Nigeria, when infact their country does not fare any better. I watched a documentary not long a go about how Morocco represents a vast recruiting ground for Al Quaida. At least Nigeria may be poor, It is not poor enough for Al Quaida to recruit from.

Take a look below Mister79

Morocco and Terrorism
Submitted by K Prabhakar Rao on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 15:31. al qaeda Fanaticism & Terrorism Karim Mejjati morocco terrorism

Prof Dr Colonel (Retired) K Prabhakar Rao



The word Morocco is directly derived from the Amazigh word Mur-Akush meaning Land of God. The full Arabic name of Morocco, Al-Mamlaka al-Maghribiya, translates to "The Western Kingdom". Al Maghrib (meaning "The West") is commonly used. For historical references, historians used to refer to Morocco as Al Maghrib al Aqşá ("The Farthest West"), disambiguating it from the historical region called the Maghreb. The name "Morocco" in many other languages originates from the name of the former capital, Marrakech (1). Morocco is a North West African country that is very close to Europe near Spain. It is neighbored by Algeria and Western Sahara and is strategically very important. It is separated from Spain in Europe by Straits of Gibraltar in Mediterranean Sea separating from Atlantic Ocean. It has long Atlantic coast. Muslims occupied Spain in medieval times through these narrow straits and established rule of Moors and finally they were driven out by Francs. AlQaeda leadership claims Spain as a land of Islam and is waging Jihad against it. Morocco is a strong ally of USA and is maintaining cordial relations eversince American independence. It has the oldest functional friendship treaty signed by legendary President John Adams and Jefferson with Moroccan King of the period. However it expressed its opposition to American war on Iraq stating that it would antagonize Muslim fundamentalists in the country.

Recent spread of terrorism globally had its own effects in Morocco too. AlQaeda that has spread its tentacles world wide particularly in backward Muslim countries has also targeted Morocco as one of its centers. Morocco has good tourist potential and many tourists visit the country and the government is pro American. This has inspired the AlQaeda net work to initiate suicide attacks on European tourists and poor Moroccans too get killed in these mindless acts. At least 45 people have been killed and about 100 injured in suicide bomb attacks in Morocco's largest city, Casablanca, local officials say the attacks on May 16, 2003 Friday night targeted a Jewish community centre, a Spanish restaurant and social club, a hotel and the Belgian consulate. Five explosions occurred within 30 minutes of each other. A Moroccan Government official said all the blasts were triggered by suicide bombers carrying explosives. At least six Europeans - two Spaniards, two Italians and two French - were also killed, a senior hospital official said. The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner says there are indications that the Casablanca blasts were al-Qaeda inspired - and were probably the work of a "North African cell linked to al-Qaeda (2).

In the post-Sept. 11 world, Karim Mejjati, former medical student from Morocco was the notorious and prominent undercover al Qaeda operative. The son of a French mother and Moroccan father, Mejjati had a privileged upbringing in Casablanca. He attended an exclusive French-language school and, at his father's urging, applied to medical school in France. He could speak several languages, had many passports and excelled at building bombs. He was also good at avoiding attention as he crisscrossed four continents to organize a wave of catastrophic attacks. On May 12, 2003, an Al Qaeda network that investigators say was put together by Mejjati in Saudi Arabia blew up three residential compounds for foreign workers in Riyadh, leaving 23 dead. Less than a week later, about 3,000 miles away, suicide bombers trained by Mejjati carried out the deadliest terrorist attacks in Moroccan history, killing 45 people in Casablanca. For the next two years, authorities in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and North America pressed a secret but intensive global manhunt for the French-schooled suspect, fearing that he had set up other al Qaeda sleeper cells that had yet to be activated. Saudi Arabia put him near the top of its list of most wanted terrorism suspects. In Morocco, he was sentenced in absentia to 20 years for the Casablanca bombings. The FBI named him in a global anti-terrorism alert, warning that he was suspected of planning attacks in the United States. According to investigators, his success in organizing terrorist networks in multiple countries is clear evidence that al Qaeda can still order devastating attacks around the world, even though most of its commanders have been killed or on the run since Sept. 11, 2001. The search for Mejjati, 37, ended in a small town in the heart of Saudi Arabia when he was killed in a gun battle with security forces who stumbled on his hideout. Now, investigators trying to retrace his footsteps acknowledge that they still do not know how many more sleeper cells the well-educated explosives expert may have created.

"They need guys like him in the field in order to remain effective," said Mohammed Darif, a political science professor at Mohammedia University in Morocco, who is an expert on Islamic radicals in the country and has studied Mejjati's background. "He was very valuable for them. They could use him in different places and rely on him to complete the job."

U.S. officials have said that the direct threat posed by al Qaeda's central leadership has diminished and that it has taken on a different role of providing encouragement, but little concrete assistance, to local cells or networks that plan attacks on their own. On Wednesday, in its annual report on global terrorism trends, the State Department said the shift illustrates "what many analysts believe is a new phase of the global war on terrorism, one in which local groups inspired by al Qaeda organize and carry out attacks with little or no support or direction from al Qaeda itself."

But an examination of Mejjati's role in organizing cells in Saudi Arabia, Morocco and possibly Spain -- three of the countries hardest hit by Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11 -- challenges that assumption. In interviews, security officials in Saudi Arabia said that Mejjati was dispatched from Afghanistan by top al Qaeda leaders in 2002 to help recruit and train a network of cells dedicated to overthrowing the Saudi royal family. Saudi officials said Mejjati served as the general strategist to the network's first chief, Yusuf Ayeri, who reported directly to al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden. Starting with the May 2003 bombing in Riyadh, the network has rattled the kingdom with a series of explosions, kidnappings and beheadings that have taken more than 90 lives and contributed to a global rise in oil prices. In Morocco, counterterrorism officials said Mejjati provided explosives training to a cell of Islamic radicals recruited from the slums surrounding Casablanca. (In fact Muslim slums around the world provide good hunting grounds for the recruitment by Islamic terrorists. Morocco is no exception. This is due to the fact that poor Muslims invariably blame all others for their economic and social backwardness setting aside their own inherited short comings by virtue of religious fundamentalism and narrow outlook on all matters) At first, investigators thought the operation was conceived and planned locally. But a suspect who later divulged Mejjati's name to interrogators led them to conclude that those responsible for the attacks were taking their cues from al Qaeda's top leadership.

Some U.S. and European officials say they believe Mejjati may also have been involved in the planning of the March 11, 2004, bombings of four commuter trains in Madrid in which 191 people were killed and more than 1,800 were wounded, although other investigators disagree. Spanish authorities have not issued an indictment against him. A local cell consisting mostly of Moroccan immigrants is believed to have carried out the attacks, but Spanish investigators have been unable to determine whether they acted on their own or took orders from al Qaeda middlemen such as Mejjati (4).

But there are sane persons and parties in Morocco who oppose fundamentalism and jihad and terrorism. "Moroccan voters have to choose between those who seek to push Morocco into a dark tunnel of obscurantism, hatred and war of religious sects and those who defend democracy and progress," said Socialist Union of Popular Forces chief Mohamed El Yazghi. North Africa has been on alert since al Qaeda's regional wing, Algeria-based Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb, threatened to step up its war against "corrupt" Maghreb rulers and their Western allies. Seven Al-Qaeda-inspired suicide bombers blew themselves up in Casablanca, killing themselves and one police officer. A 30-year-old man tried but failed to blow himself up on a bus with foreign tourists at Meknes, 130 km from Rabat. Neither Al Qaeda in the Maghreb nor the cells linked to it in the region have a precise
political agenda. Moroccan secularist and Socialist politicians earlier launched the two-week campaign during which they will tried to trim the Islamist Justice and Development party (PJD)'s advance by linking the party to terrorism. As it is PJD has been dogged by suspicions it has a hidden agenda to turn Morocco into a purist Islamist state. They argued PJD, though it was not linked directly to terrorism, advocated an "ideology feeding terrorism". However PJD leaders say they are staunch opponents of radical Islamists and violence. "We are all part of the same front against terrorism, whether we are leftists or Islamists. We are all committed to protect the country," said Lahcen Daoudi, top PJD official. "Social misery, poverty and unemployment are factors which push youth to extremism. We in the PJD are aware that we must explain to the people that violence is useless," he added (4).

Morocco thus is also an active scene for AlQaeda inspired terrorist activities. It being very close to Europe near Spain draws many tourists and thus terrorists are targeting the foreign nationals like Jews, Europeans and Americans who go there on holidaying or on business. The government takes anti terrorist actions. The progressive Muslim nations that are with America are seen as the greatest villains by Al Qaeda and are targeted. This is the Wahabi spirit. Any one who does not subscribe to their understanding of Islam is the enemy and they are targeted. Thus AlQaeda targets Christian nations and other Muslim nations too who are progressive and are not with them. Therefore AlQaeda leadership establishes its cells and motivates Muslim fundamentalists and inspires them to attack Christians and Jews in these countries and thus is most dangerous. An important point to note now is the latest statements of Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin laden (Believing he is still alive and kicking although many are of opinion that he is already dead either in Tora Bora bombings or due to sickness) in a tape released by American authorities. Bin Laden is exhorting all Americans to convert to Islam as a condition to stop his activities against them. This is no doubt ridiculous and can not be accepted and will not be accepted by the Americans. The bitterness will further grow. This is coercive religious conversion. In India in medieval times Islamic invaders resorted to conversion of defeated at the point of sword. What a ridiculous appeal? With this, the struggle against terrorism would take a new turn as a struggle of Islam against Christians. Will democrats who are up in arms and taken up cudgels against President George W Bush accept this advice from Bin Laden for conversion to Islam after they become rulers once George Bush goes to save their skins? The present struggles can get switched over as crusades. All Muslims are not terrorists. But most of the terrorists are Muslims. Appeal of Bin Laden would be brushed aside as insane statements from a perverted and sadistic fundamentalist. Probably most of the leaders would do same including the progressive Islamic states. A country like Morocco would laugh it off and take clubs against terrorists and AlQaeda men and these struggles would be long drawn ones till these mad men are eliminated with a bullet in their head. Thankfully Morocco is a close ally of USA. But this is the strong reason for its suffering at the hands of insane terrorists.



Bibliography

1. Morocco, Wikepedia, free encyclopedia, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:0l9XGssiIzUJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Morocco+morocco&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=in

2. Terror blasts rock Casablanca, BBC news/Africa, Saturday, 17 May, 2003, 16:44 GMT 17:44 UK http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:5oEawhrhYZgJ:news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3035803.stm

+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4

3. Craig Whitlock, Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, May 2, 2005; Page A01 Odyssey of an AlQaeda operative, News week, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/01/AR2005050100947.html

4. Lamine Ghanmi, Islamists to gain despite Qaeda fears, Date: August 27, 2007, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:IffTl_pxOssJ:www.kuwaittimes.net/

read_news.php%3Fnewsid%3DNDE1NjQ2OA%3D%3D+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10



Have I said that Morocco is doing better then Nigeria???? Have I attacked Nigeria???

Please stop this bullshit. I live in Europe and when the show Nigeria they always show the proverty and rebbels who kindap foreigners. Just look to BBC or CNN.

It is not a secret that people who are poor get frustrated in Morocco some people get radical and in Nigeria some people are becoming rebels and kindap foreigners or kill them.

Rebels Go On Rampage, Kill 17 Nigerian Soldiers In Gun Battle! BY Reuters

DATE : Wednesday, 04 October 2006
PORT HARCOURT, Nigeria (Reuters) - Militants said they killed 17 soldiers in two separate gun battles in Nigeria's oil heartland on Wednesday and threatened imminent attacks on strategic oil facilities.



The killings extend to four days a surge in violence between troops and rebels in the world's eighth largest oil exporter and follow the kidnapping of seven foreign workers from a U.S. company compound on Tuesday.


"In (one) firefight, which lasted about one and a half hours, our units captured two gunboats, killing all occupants, nine soldiers," the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta (MEND) said in an email to the media.


"There was (also) an attack on a houseboat. Our fighters met two soldiers and about 6 naval ratings there. After a brief shootout in which they were all killed, we boarded the houseboat and collected all the weapons aboard," it said in another email.


Military spokesmen declined to comment on the death tolls. A defense source said some soldiers were missing after militants attacked troops in boats on their way to Italian Oil Company ENI's Brass River export terminal.


"Soldiers were attacked on their way to a troop change in Brass. Some soldiers are missing," the source said.
A spokesman for Royal Dutch Shell said there was an "attempted attack" on an oil workers' houseboat attached to a pumping station at Ekulama, but no residents were killed.


Oil prices jumped on news of the fighting, with New York crude futures closing 77 cents higher at $59.45 a barrel.


REINFORCEMENTS
MEND said it was moving another 500 fighters into the eastern part of the Niger Delta in preparation for a "number of strategic attacks" and advised all oil workers to leave the vast West African wetlands.


"In the course of today we are considering attacking a number of oil installations in Rivers State as well as a possible lifting on the embargo we placed on hostage takings," the group said.


ENI's Brass River tanker terminal exports about 200,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude oil out of a total Nigerian output of 2.4 million bpd. Ekulama pumps about 70,000 bpd to Shell's nearby oil export terminal on Bonny Island.


MEND staged a series of attacks on oil and gas facilities in the western delta in February which forced Shell to shut oilfields producing 500,000 bpd and evacuate hundreds of staff.


The group, which is pressing for greater regional control over the delta's oil wealth, has failed to follow through on some more recent threats.


The U.S. consulate in Nigeria issued a warning earlier on Wednesday that militants may be planning to target Bonny Island, home to one of the world's largest natural gas export plants as well as Shell's 400,000 bpd oil tanker terminal.

Seven foreign oil workers are still missing after being abducted by suspected militants from a residential compound attached to ExxonMobil's operational base on Tuesday.


A day earlier, about 70 gunmen attacked a convoy of boats supplying oilfields operated by Shell. The militants killed up to 10 soldiers and abducted 25 Shell contractors who were all free by Wednesday.


Violence in the delta is rooted in poverty, corruption and lawlessness. Most inhabitants have seen few benefits from five decades of oil extraction that has damaged their environment.


Resentment towards the oil industry breeds militancy, but the struggle for control of lucrative oil smuggling business and the lure of ransoms have also contributed to the violence.

(Additional reporting by Estelle Shirbon in Abuja, Tom Ashby in Lagos and Randy Fabi in London)

Last Updated ( Wednesday, 04 October 2006 )

http://www.thetimesofnigeria.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1182&Itemid=0&PHPSESSID=e1f16924491a5c766bfef4e017

As Mathiias stated, Mister79 and his other cohorts will say crap things about Nigeria, when infact their country does not fare any better. I watched a documentary not long a go about how Morocco represents a vast recruiting ground for Al Quaida. At least Nigeria may be poor, It is not poor enough for Al Quaida to recruit from.

Take a look below Mister79

Morocco and Terrorism
Submitted by K Prabhakar Rao on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 15:31. al qaeda Fanaticism & Terrorism Karim Mejjati morocco terrorism

Prof Dr Colonel (Retired) K Prabhakar Rao



The word Morocco is directly derived from the Amazigh word Mur-Akush meaning Land of God. The full Arabic name of Morocco, Al-Mamlaka al-Maghribiya, translates to "The Western Kingdom". Al Maghrib (meaning "The West") is commonly used. For historical references, historians used to refer to Morocco as Al Maghrib al Aqşá ("The Farthest West"), disambiguating it from the historical region called the Maghreb. The name "Morocco" in many other languages originates from the name of the former capital, Marrakech (1). Morocco is a North West African country that is very close to Europe near Spain. It is neighbored by Algeria and Western Sahara and is strategically very important. It is separated from Spain in Europe by Straits of Gibraltar in Mediterranean Sea separating from Atlantic Ocean. It has long Atlantic coast. Muslims occupied Spain in medieval times through these narrow straits and established rule of Moors and finally they were driven out by Francs. AlQaeda leadership claims Spain as a land of Islam and is waging Jihad against it. Morocco is a strong ally of USA and is maintaining cordial relations eversince American independence. It has the oldest functional friendship treaty signed by legendary President John Adams and Jefferson with Moroccan King of the period. However it expressed its opposition to American war on Iraq stating that it would antagonize Muslim fundamentalists in the country.

Recent spread of terrorism globally had its own effects in Morocco too. AlQaeda that has spread its tentacles world wide particularly in backward Muslim countries has also targeted Morocco as one of its centers. Morocco has good tourist potential and many tourists visit the country and the government is pro American. This has inspired the AlQaeda net work to initiate suicide attacks on European tourists and poor Moroccans too get killed in these mindless acts. At least 45 people have been killed and about 100 injured in suicide bomb attacks in Morocco's largest city, Casablanca, local officials say the attacks on May 16, 2003 Friday night targeted a Jewish community centre, a Spanish restaurant and social club, a hotel and the Belgian consulate. Five explosions occurred within 30 minutes of each other. A Moroccan Government official said all the blasts were triggered by suicide bombers carrying explosives. At least six Europeans - two Spaniards, two Italians and two French - were also killed, a senior hospital official said. The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner says there are indications that the Casablanca blasts were al-Qaeda inspired - and were probably the work of a "North African cell linked to al-Qaeda (2).

In the post-Sept. 11 world, Karim Mejjati, former medical student from Morocco was the notorious and prominent undercover al Qaeda operative. The son of a French mother and Moroccan father, Mejjati had a privileged upbringing in Casablanca. He attended an exclusive French-language school and, at his father's urging, applied to medical school in France. He could speak several languages, had many passports and excelled at building bombs. He was also good at avoiding attention as he crisscrossed four continents to organize a wave of catastrophic attacks. On May 12, 2003, an Al Qaeda network that investigators say was put together by Mejjati in Saudi Arabia blew up three residential compounds for foreign workers in Riyadh, leaving 23 dead. Less than a week later, about 3,000 miles away, suicide bombers trained by Mejjati carried out the deadliest terrorist attacks in Moroccan history, killing 45 people in Casablanca. For the next two years, authorities in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and North America pressed a secret but intensive global manhunt for the French-schooled suspect, fearing that he had set up other al Qaeda sleeper cells that had yet to be activated. Saudi Arabia put him near the top of its list of most wanted terrorism suspects. In Morocco, he was sentenced in absentia to 20 years for the Casablanca bombings. The FBI named him in a global anti-terrorism alert, warning that he was suspected of planning attacks in the United States. According to investigators, his success in organizing terrorist networks in multiple countries is clear evidence that al Qaeda can still order devastating attacks around the world, even though most of its commanders have been killed or on the run since Sept. 11, 2001. The search for Mejjati, 37, ended in a small town in the heart of Saudi Arabia when he was killed in a gun battle with security forces who stumbled on his hideout. Now, investigators trying to retrace his footsteps acknowledge that they still do not know how many more sleeper cells the well-educated explosives expert may have created.

"They need guys like him in the field in order to remain effective," said Mohammed Darif, a political science professor at Mohammedia University in Morocco, who is an expert on Islamic radicals in the country and has studied Mejjati's background. "He was very valuable for them. They could use him in different places and rely on him to complete the job."

U.S. officials have said that the direct threat posed by al Qaeda's central leadership has diminished and that it has taken on a different role of providing encouragement, but little concrete assistance, to local cells or networks that plan attacks on their own. On Wednesday, in its annual report on global terrorism trends, the State Department said the shift illustrates "what many analysts believe is a new phase of the global war on terrorism, one in which local groups inspired by al Qaeda organize and carry out attacks with little or no support or direction from al Qaeda itself."

But an examination of Mejjati's role in organizing cells in Saudi Arabia, Morocco and possibly Spain -- three of the countries hardest hit by Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11 -- challenges that assumption. In interviews, security officials in Saudi Arabia said that Mejjati was dispatched from Afghanistan by top al Qaeda leaders in 2002 to help recruit and train a network of cells dedicated to overthrowing the Saudi royal family. Saudi officials said Mejjati served as the general strategist to the network's first chief, Yusuf Ayeri, who reported directly to al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden. Starting with the May 2003 bombing in Riyadh, the network has rattled the kingdom with a series of explosions, kidnappings and beheadings that have taken more than 90 lives and contributed to a global rise in oil prices. In Morocco, counterterrorism officials said Mejjati provided explosives training to a cell of Islamic radicals recruited from the slums surrounding Casablanca. (In fact Muslim slums around the world provide good hunting grounds for the recruitment by Islamic terrorists. Morocco is no exception. This is due to the fact that poor Muslims invariably blame all others for their economic and social backwardness setting aside their own inherited short comings by virtue of religious fundamentalism and narrow outlook on all matters) At first, investigators thought the operation was conceived and planned locally. But a suspect who later divulged Mejjati's name to interrogators led them to conclude that those responsible for the attacks were taking their cues from al Qaeda's top leadership.

Some U.S. and European officials say they believe Mejjati may also have been involved in the planning of the March 11, 2004, bombings of four commuter trains in Madrid in which 191 people were killed and more than 1,800 were wounded, although other investigators disagree. Spanish authorities have not issued an indictment against him. A local cell consisting mostly of Moroccan immigrants is believed to have carried out the attacks, but Spanish investigators have been unable to determine whether they acted on their own or took orders from al Qaeda middlemen such as Mejjati (4).

But there are sane persons and parties in Morocco who oppose fundamentalism and jihad and terrorism. "Moroccan voters have to choose between those who seek to push Morocco into a dark tunnel of obscurantism, hatred and war of religious sects and those who defend democracy and progress," said Socialist Union of Popular Forces chief Mohamed El Yazghi. North Africa has been on alert since al Qaeda's regional wing, Algeria-based Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb, threatened to step up its war against "corrupt" Maghreb rulers and their Western allies. Seven Al-Qaeda-inspired suicide bombers blew themselves up in Casablanca, killing themselves and one police officer. A 30-year-old man tried but failed to blow himself up on a bus with foreign tourists at Meknes, 130 km from Rabat. Neither Al Qaeda in the Maghreb nor the cells linked to it in the region have a precise
political agenda. Moroccan secularist and Socialist politicians earlier launched the two-week campaign during which they will tried to trim the Islamist Justice and Development party (PJD)'s advance by linking the party to terrorism. As it is PJD has been dogged by suspicions it has a hidden agenda to turn Morocco into a purist Islamist state. They argued PJD, though it was not linked directly to terrorism, advocated an "ideology feeding terrorism". However PJD leaders say they are staunch opponents of radical Islamists and violence. "We are all part of the same front against terrorism, whether we are leftists or Islamists. We are all committed to protect the country," said Lahcen Daoudi, top PJD official. "Social misery, poverty and unemployment are factors which push youth to extremism. We in the PJD are aware that we must explain to the people that violence is useless," he added (4).

Morocco thus is also an active scene for AlQaeda inspired terrorist activities. It being very close to Europe near Spain draws many tourists and thus terrorists are targeting the foreign nationals like Jews, Europeans and Americans who go there on holidaying or on business. The government takes anti terrorist actions. The progressive Muslim nations that are with America are seen as the greatest villains by Al Qaeda and are targeted. This is the Wahabi spirit. Any one who does not subscribe to their understanding of Islam is the enemy and they are targeted. Thus AlQaeda targets Christian nations and other Muslim nations too who are progressive and are not with them. Therefore AlQaeda leadership establishes its cells and motivates Muslim fundamentalists and inspires them to attack Christians and Jews in these countries and thus is most dangerous. An important point to note now is the latest statements of Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin laden (Believing he is still alive and kicking although many are of opinion that he is already dead either in Tora Bora bombings or due to sickness) in a tape released by American authorities. Bin Laden is exhorting all Americans to convert to Islam as a condition to stop his activities against them. This is no doubt ridiculous and can not be accepted and will not be accepted by the Americans. The bitterness will further grow. This is coercive religious conversion. In India in medieval times Islamic invaders resorted to conversion of defeated at the point of sword. What a ridiculous appeal? With this, the struggle against terrorism would take a new turn as a struggle of Islam against Christians. Will democrats who are up in arms and taken up cudgels against President George W Bush accept this advice from Bin Laden for conversion to Islam after they become rulers once George Bush goes to save their skins? The present struggles can get switched over as crusades. All Muslims are not terrorists. But most of the terrorists are Muslims. Appeal of Bin Laden would be brushed aside as insane statements from a perverted and sadistic fundamentalist. Probably most of the leaders would do same including the progressive Islamic states. A country like Morocco would laugh it off and take clubs against terrorists and AlQaeda men and these struggles would be long drawn ones till these mad men are eliminated with a bullet in their head. Thankfully Morocco is a close ally of USA. But this is the strong reason for its suffering at the hands of insane terrorists.



Bibliography

1. Morocco, Wikepedia, free encyclopedia, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:0l9XGssiIzUJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Morocco+morocco&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=in

2. Terror blasts rock Casablanca, BBC news/Africa, Saturday, 17 May, 2003, 16:44 GMT 17:44 UK http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:5oEawhrhYZgJ:news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3035803.stm

+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4

3. Craig Whitlock, Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, May 2, 2005; Page A01 Odyssey of an AlQaeda operative, News week, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/01/AR2005050100947.html

4. Lamine Ghanmi, Islamists to gain despite Qaeda fears, Date: August 27, 2007, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:IffTl_pxOssJ:www.kuwaittimes.net/

read_news.php%3Fnewsid%3DNDE1NjQ2OA%3D%3D+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10



What a bullshit. Look to the facts. Morocco is doing much better then Nigeria. The proverty in Morocco is 19%. In Nigeria is that 60%...

Nigeria is rich of oil, has larger GDP then Morocco but is one of the poorest country in Africa. Morocco has no oil, gaz etc but is still richer then Nigeria and people have it better.

You jealouse people...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ni.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mo.html

NIGERIA
Population below poverty line:
60%


MOROCCO

Population below poverty line:
19%

It seems like some people have turned a blind eye on growth of economies like Mozambique and Angola. Countries like Senegal are doing great, infact Zimbabwe is the only country were there's no growth at all.

The problem with many discussions on this forum is that they all end up being a question of individuals arguing about whose country is doing better or will do better with no facts. I can argue that Kenya has better infrustructure than South Africa but it will not make it true. A South African can also argue correctly that South Africa is the richest country in Africa but ignore the fact that it has one of the largest income gaps in the world. Nigeria for all it's oil resources remains a country that has alot to do to become a middle class economy and the same holds true for many African countries including Kenya.
Interlectual dishonesty is a major problem in Africa because it leads to pointing fingers and no real action. When Barrack Obama visited Kenya, he said that corruption had stiffled Kenya's grawth since we were at the same economic level with countries like Singapore 30 years ago but we did not continue to grow as much as the Asian tiger economies. Many powerfull Kenyans were not happy with Mr Obama's statements because he was pointing his finger at them so they chose to discredit his remarks with statements that would make a first year economics student blush with shame.
My point is we can continue to have this endless discussions with arguments that have no factual basis or we can honestly acknowledge that our countries are not doing as well as they should be. Making statements about how many rich people live in a country whose living standards are among the worst in the world does not do this discussion any good because we all know that most of the poorest people live in sub Saharan Africa.

Well said Africanman, I think the same statements are the ones that are drawing us back as its better if we focus on growing our economies rather than blaming people for their statements. Obama was correct.

:applause:

As Mathiias stated, Mister79 and his other cohorts will say crap things about Nigeria, when infact their country does not fare any better. I watched a documentary not long a go about how Morocco represents a vast recruiting ground for Al Quaida. At least Nigeria may be poor, It is not poor enough for Al Quaida to recruit from.

Take a look below Mister79

Morocco and Terrorism
Submitted by K Prabhakar Rao on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 15:31. al qaeda Fanaticism & Terrorism Karim Mejjati morocco terrorism

Prof Dr Colonel (Retired) K Prabhakar Rao



The word Morocco is directly derived from the Amazigh word Mur-Akush meaning Land of God. The full Arabic name of Morocco, Al-Mamlaka al-Maghribiya, translates to "The Western Kingdom". Al Maghrib (meaning "The West") is commonly used. For historical references, historians used to refer to Morocco as Al Maghrib al Aqşá ("The Farthest West"), disambiguating it from the historical region called the Maghreb. The name "Morocco" in many other languages originates from the name of the former capital, Marrakech (1). Morocco is a North West African country that is very close to Europe near Spain. It is neighbored by Algeria and Western Sahara and is strategically very important. It is separated from Spain in Europe by Straits of Gibraltar in Mediterranean Sea separating from Atlantic Ocean. It has long Atlantic coast. Muslims occupied Spain in medieval times through these narrow straits and established rule of Moors and finally they were driven out by Francs. AlQaeda leadership claims Spain as a land of Islam and is waging Jihad against it. Morocco is a strong ally of USA and is maintaining cordial relations eversince American independence. It has the oldest functional friendship treaty signed by legendary President John Adams and Jefferson with Moroccan King of the period. However it expressed its opposition to American war on Iraq stating that it would antagonize Muslim fundamentalists in the country.

Recent spread of terrorism globally had its own effects in Morocco too. AlQaeda that has spread its tentacles world wide particularly in backward Muslim countries has also targeted Morocco as one of its centers. Morocco has good tourist potential and many tourists visit the country and the government is pro American. This has inspired the AlQaeda net work to initiate suicide attacks on European tourists and poor Moroccans too get killed in these mindless acts. At least 45 people have been killed and about 100 injured in suicide bomb attacks in Morocco's largest city, Casablanca, local officials say the attacks on May 16, 2003 Friday night targeted a Jewish community centre, a Spanish restaurant and social club, a hotel and the Belgian consulate. Five explosions occurred within 30 minutes of each other. A Moroccan Government official said all the blasts were triggered by suicide bombers carrying explosives. At least six Europeans - two Spaniards, two Italians and two French - were also killed, a senior hospital official said. The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner says there are indications that the Casablanca blasts were al-Qaeda inspired - and were probably the work of a "North African cell linked to al-Qaeda (2).

In the post-Sept. 11 world, Karim Mejjati, former medical student from Morocco was the notorious and prominent undercover al Qaeda operative. The son of a French mother and Moroccan father, Mejjati had a privileged upbringing in Casablanca. He attended an exclusive French-language school and, at his father's urging, applied to medical school in France. He could speak several languages, had many passports and excelled at building bombs. He was also good at avoiding attention as he crisscrossed four continents to organize a wave of catastrophic attacks. On May 12, 2003, an Al Qaeda network that investigators say was put together by Mejjati in Saudi Arabia blew up three residential compounds for foreign workers in Riyadh, leaving 23 dead. Less than a week later, about 3,000 miles away, suicide bombers trained by Mejjati carried out the deadliest terrorist attacks in Moroccan history, killing 45 people in Casablanca. For the next two years, authorities in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and North America pressed a secret but intensive global manhunt for the French-schooled suspect, fearing that he had set up other al Qaeda sleeper cells that had yet to be activated. Saudi Arabia put him near the top of its list of most wanted terrorism suspects. In Morocco, he was sentenced in absentia to 20 years for the Casablanca bombings. The FBI named him in a global anti-terrorism alert, warning that he was suspected of planning attacks in the United States. According to investigators, his success in organizing terrorist networks in multiple countries is clear evidence that al Qaeda can still order devastating attacks around the world, even though most of its commanders have been killed or on the run since Sept. 11, 2001. The search for Mejjati, 37, ended in a small town in the heart of Saudi Arabia when he was killed in a gun battle with security forces who stumbled on his hideout. Now, investigators trying to retrace his footsteps acknowledge that they still do not know how many more sleeper cells the well-educated explosives expert may have created.

"They need guys like him in the field in order to remain effective," said Mohammed Darif, a political science professor at Mohammedia University in Morocco, who is an expert on Islamic radicals in the country and has studied Mejjati's background. "He was very valuable for them. They could use him in different places and rely on him to complete the job."

U.S. officials have said that the direct threat posed by al Qaeda's central leadership has diminished and that it has taken on a different role of providing encouragement, but little concrete assistance, to local cells or networks that plan attacks on their own. On Wednesday, in its annual report on global terrorism trends, the State Department said the shift illustrates "what many analysts believe is a new phase of the global war on terrorism, one in which local groups inspired by al Qaeda organize and carry out attacks with little or no support or direction from al Qaeda itself."

But an examination of Mejjati's role in organizing cells in Saudi Arabia, Morocco and possibly Spain -- three of the countries hardest hit by Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11 -- challenges that assumption. In interviews, security officials in Saudi Arabia said that Mejjati was dispatched from Afghanistan by top al Qaeda leaders in 2002 to help recruit and train a network of cells dedicated to overthrowing the Saudi royal family. Saudi officials said Mejjati served as the general strategist to the network's first chief, Yusuf Ayeri, who reported directly to al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden. Starting with the May 2003 bombing in Riyadh, the network has rattled the kingdom with a series of explosions, kidnappings and beheadings that have taken more than 90 lives and contributed to a global rise in oil prices. In Morocco, counterterrorism officials said Mejjati provided explosives training to a cell of Islamic radicals recruited from the slums surrounding Casablanca. (In fact Muslim slums around the world provide good hunting grounds for the recruitment by Islamic terrorists. Morocco is no exception. This is due to the fact that poor Muslims invariably blame all others for their economic and social backwardness setting aside their own inherited short comings by virtue of religious fundamentalism and narrow outlook on all matters) At first, investigators thought the operation was conceived and planned locally. But a suspect who later divulged Mejjati's name to interrogators led them to conclude that those responsible for the attacks were taking their cues from al Qaeda's top leadership.

Some U.S. and European officials say they believe Mejjati may also have been involved in the planning of the March 11, 2004, bombings of four commuter trains in Madrid in which 191 people were killed and more than 1,800 were wounded, although other investigators disagree. Spanish authorities have not issued an indictment against him. A local cell consisting mostly of Moroccan immigrants is believed to have carried out the attacks, but Spanish investigators have been unable to determine whether they acted on their own or took orders from al Qaeda middlemen such as Mejjati (4).

But there are sane persons and parties in Morocco who oppose fundamentalism and jihad and terrorism. "Moroccan voters have to choose between those who seek to push Morocco into a dark tunnel of obscurantism, hatred and war of religious sects and those who defend democracy and progress," said Socialist Union of Popular Forces chief Mohamed El Yazghi. North Africa has been on alert since al Qaeda's regional wing, Algeria-based Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb, threatened to step up its war against "corrupt" Maghreb rulers and their Western allies. Seven Al-Qaeda-inspired suicide bombers blew themselves up in Casablanca, killing themselves and one police officer. A 30-year-old man tried but failed to blow himself up on a bus with foreign tourists at Meknes, 130 km from Rabat. Neither Al Qaeda in the Maghreb nor the cells linked to it in the region have a precise
political agenda. Moroccan secularist and Socialist politicians earlier launched the two-week campaign during which they will tried to trim the Islamist Justice and Development party (PJD)'s advance by linking the party to terrorism. As it is PJD has been dogged by suspicions it has a hidden agenda to turn Morocco into a purist Islamist state. They argued PJD, though it was not linked directly to terrorism, advocated an "ideology feeding terrorism". However PJD leaders say they are staunch opponents of radical Islamists and violence. "We are all part of the same front against terrorism, whether we are leftists or Islamists. We are all committed to protect the country," said Lahcen Daoudi, top PJD official. "Social misery, poverty and unemployment are factors which push youth to extremism. We in the PJD are aware that we must explain to the people that violence is useless," he added (4).

Morocco thus is also an active scene for AlQaeda inspired terrorist activities. It being very close to Europe near Spain draws many tourists and thus terrorists are targeting the foreign nationals like Jews, Europeans and Americans who go there on holidaying or on business. The government takes anti terrorist actions. The progressive Muslim nations that are with America are seen as the greatest villains by Al Qaeda and are targeted. This is the Wahabi spirit. Any one who does not subscribe to their understanding of Islam is the enemy and they are targeted. Thus AlQaeda targets Christian nations and other Muslim nations too who are progressive and are not with them. Therefore AlQaeda leadership establishes its cells and motivates Muslim fundamentalists and inspires them to attack Christians and Jews in these countries and thus is most dangerous. An important point to note now is the latest statements of Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin laden (Believing he is still alive and kicking although many are of opinion that he is already dead either in Tora Bora bombings or due to sickness) in a tape released by American authorities. Bin Laden is exhorting all Americans to convert to Islam as a condition to stop his activities against them. This is no doubt ridiculous and can not be accepted and will not be accepted by the Americans. The bitterness will further grow. This is coercive religious conversion. In India in medieval times Islamic invaders resorted to conversion of defeated at the point of sword. What a ridiculous appeal? With this, the struggle against terrorism would take a new turn as a struggle of Islam against Christians. Will democrats who are up in arms and taken up cudgels against President George W Bush accept this advice from Bin Laden for conversion to Islam after they become rulers once George Bush goes to save their skins? The present struggles can get switched over as crusades. All Muslims are not terrorists. But most of the terrorists are Muslims. Appeal of Bin Laden would be brushed aside as insane statements from a perverted and sadistic fundamentalist. Probably most of the leaders would do same including the progressive Islamic states. A country like Morocco would laugh it off and take clubs against terrorists and AlQaeda men and these struggles would be long drawn ones till these mad men are eliminated with a bullet in their head. Thankfully Morocco is a close ally of USA. But this is the strong reason for its suffering at the hands of insane terrorists.



Bibliography

1. Morocco, Wikepedia, free encyclopedia, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:0l9XGssiIzUJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Morocco+morocco&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=in

2. Terror blasts rock Casablanca, BBC news/Africa, Saturday, 17 May, 2003, 16:44 GMT 17:44 UK http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:5oEawhrhYZgJ:news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3035803.stm

+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4

3. Craig Whitlock, Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, May 2, 2005; Page A01 Odyssey of an AlQaeda operative, News week, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/01/AR2005050100947.html

4. Lamine Ghanmi, Islamists to gain despite Qaeda fears, Date: August 27, 2007, http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:IffTl_pxOssJ:www.kuwaittimes.net/

read_news.php%3Fnewsid%3DNDE1NjQ2OA%3D%3D+Morocco+and+AlQaeda+inspired+terrorism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10



HUMAN INDEX DEVELOPMENT
The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to distinguish whether the country is a developed, a developing, or an under-developed country, and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life


2006

Medium
121 South Africa 0.653
122 Tajikistan 0.652
123 Morocco 0.640
124 Gabon 0.633
125 Namibia 0.626
126 India 0.611
127 São Tomé and Príncipe 0.607
128 Solomon Islands 0.592
129 Cambodia 0.583
130 Myanmar 0.581
131 Botswana 0.570
132 Comoros 0.556
133 Laos 0.553
134 Pakistan 0.539
135 Bhutan 0.538
136 Ghana 0.532
137 Bangladesh 0.530
138 Nepal 0.527
139 Papua New Guinea 0.523
140 Republic of the Congo[3] 0.520
141 Sudan 0.516
142 Timor-Leste 0.512
143 Madagascar 0.509
144 Cameroon 0.506
145 Uganda 0.502
146 Swaziland 0.500





Low
Rank Country HDI
147 Togo 0.495
148 Djibouti 0.494
149 Lesotho 0.494
150 Yemen 0.492
151 Zimbabwe 0.491
152 Kenya 0.491
153 Mauritania 0.486
154 Haiti 0.482
155 Gambia 0.479
156 Senegal 0.460
157 Eritrea 0.454
158 Rwanda 0.450
159 Nigeria 0.448
160 Guinea 0.445
161 Angola 0.439
162 Tanzania 0.430
163 Benin 0.428
164 Ivory Coast 0.421
165 Zambia 0.407
166 Malawi 0.400
167 Democratic Republic of the Congo[4] 0.391
168 Mozambique 0.390
169 Burundi 0.384
170 Ethiopia 0.371
171 Chad 0.368
172 Central African Republic 0.353
173 Guinea-Bissau 0.349
174 Burkina Faso 0.342
175 Mali 0.338
176 Sierra Leone 0.335
177 Niger 0.311


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

i never thought nigerians would be that jealouse

I remeber when I joined SSC in 2004, there were very feew South African forumers and they were and still doing excellent job. Plenty of non-African people were amazed at the photos were posting and they never thought that there are such beutiful places and the country was so advanced. They apploaded the country and as we all know that CNN and others used, and still do, to feed then crap and only show the bad side of the continent.

The reason I wrote the above is that SSC have thought plenty of people about the good of South African and Africa as a whole. The arguments we having here are not necessary and all we have to do is to use SSC as the learning tool so that we can learn more about each other's countries instead of attacking or blaming one another. We can simply ignore a stupid person or let the moderator ban them but not argue over something that we know is not true.

I remeber when I joined SSC in 2004, there were very feew South African forumers and they were and still doing excellent job. Plenty of non-African people were amazed at the photos were posting and they never thought that there are such beutiful places and the country was so advanced. They apploaded the country and as we all know that CNN and others used, and still do, to feed then crap and only show the bad side of the continent.

The reason I wrote the above is that SSC have thought plenty of people about the good of South African and Africa as a whole. The arguments we having here are not necessary and all we have to do is to use SSC as the learning tool so that we can learn more about each other's countries instead of attacking or blaming one another. We can simply ignore a stupid person or let the moderator ban them but not argue over something that we know is not true.

I agree with you. I live in Europa and when it is about Africa they only show the bad things. It doesn't matter if it is North, Mid ,South Africa the only show the bad things about Africa.

The never show the succes story of Angola or other countries who are doing very good. Only 1% in Africa is a refugee.

It is sad that African people on this topic are attacking other African people.

I apologize for people bringing up attacks on you about Moroccans involved in terrorism. It was totally uncalled for since you had not started to insullt Nigerians. Unfortunately if you dont agree with Matthias, he will accuse you of being a racist or will try to start an attack either on you or your contry. I can only apologize.

Philip

first of all mister 79 the article u posted is one year old..things have changed a bit secondly nigerians below poverty line is now 54 percent in a recent report which means if u do ur maths the ones doing o.k are 46 percent which is 63 million which is more than double your countries population....i am not attacking morocco just pointing out some facts...its things like this tht keeps our continent backwards when we continue to bicker internally instead of uniting..please let us make constructive and positive arguments

mister 79 u see your reaction when matthias spoke of morocco its the same way he acted whn someone spoke ill of nigeria so you should understand how he felt now..when someone sheds a negative light on your country u are bound to react so i'm sure if no one says anything degradatory about anothers country this forum would go on nicely...you cant expect to tell someone his country isnt good and he would fold his arms and look at you..

I apologize for people bringing up attacks on you about Moroccans involved in terrorism. It was totally uncalled for since you had not started to insullt Nigerians. Unfortunately if you dont agree with Matthias, he will accuse you of being a racist or will try to start an attack either on you or your contry. I can only apologize.

Philip

Thank you...

first of all mister 79 the article u posted is one year old..things have changed a bit secondly nigerians below poverty line is now 54 percent in a recent report which means if u do ur maths the ones doing o.k are 46 percent which is 63 million which is more than double your countries population....i am not attacking morocco just pointing out some facts...its things like this tht keeps our continent backwards when we continue to bicker internally instead of uniting..please let us make constructive and positive arguments

Yes it is one year old. I now that Nigeria is now doing a lot to make the country better. The economy and other sectors are doing very good...

I think if you have a lot of people it is more difficult to create for everybody jobs and make everybody happy.

exactly my point..china is by far richer than a lot of countries but lots of its population is nt tht well to do cos of its size..so its a bit harder for countries with larger populations...so lets make constructive argument guys

exactly my point..china is by far richer than a lot of countries but lots of its population is nt tht well to do cos of its size..so its a bit harder for countries with larger populations...so lets make constructive argument guys

That is true. More then 800 people in China don't profit of the economic boom and are still poor. That is the same in India...

If India had 100 million people it will be the richest country of the world.

The Gulf states are very rich. Because the have very less population. If they had millions of people the wouldn't be so rich.

Speaking of bad media coverage look at this passage from the Daily Telegraph describing the city of Tetouan in Morocco. (Its cause there was a reported sighting of Madeleine Mcann there)

The other girl seen in the picture was named as Bushra's older sister Mariam, alongside her father and aunts.

The family was spotted in the small town of Zinat, on the main road heading towards Tetuan, in the main road to Chaouen.

Scenes of donkey carts, shepherds and nomads wandering the dusty and rubbish-strewn streets are typical.

For years the main nearby city of Tetouan has had a bad reputation - as a city of smugglers, criminals and lately as a hotbed for radical Islamism.

Morocco has regularly featured in the hunt for Madeleine with three other reported sightings since May.



This is disgusting journalism.

I think that we as Africans need to work hard to improve sitiuations in our countries rather than commenting on stupid articles like the one Abdellah posted. Journalists whoe writes those kind of articles are agents of some western countries who don't want to see Africans doing thimgs for themselves.

I believ that these people do not want to see Africans doing business amongst themselves simply because its gonna impact their economies because we will nto be depending on them anymore and we have got plenty of natural resources. Nigeria and South Africa have signed a contract, it was in 2005 if I'm not mistaken, whereby South Africans will be maintaining and providing service to their oil riggs. This is what I would like to see happening, I mean all African countries helping one another.

I know that plenty of South Africans visit Mozambique every year and most of them keep going back. I would like to see more of these happening between all African countries.

I think that we as Africans need to work hard to improve sitiuations in our countries rather than commenting on stupid articles like the one Abdellah posted. Journalists whoe writes those kind of articles are agents of some western countries who don't want to see Africans doing thimgs for themselves.

I believ that these people do not want to see Africans doing business amongst themselves simply because its gonna impact their economies because we will nto be depending on them anymore and we have got plenty of natural resources. Nigeria and South Africa have signed a contract, it was in 2005 if I'm not mistaken, whereby South Africans will be maintaining and providing service to their oil riggs. This is what I would like to see happening, I mean all African countries helping one another.

I know that plenty of South Africans visit Mozambique every year and most of them keep going back. I would like to see more of these happening between all African countries.



Africa is one of the richest continent and still one of the poorest. Because the west want that Africa stays poor because so they can steal all the resources. And buy things very cheap.

For example French buys for 17 cent a kilo Cacao from farmers in Africa and they sell it for 17 dollar a kilo! This is happing with all lot of products from Africa like gold, diamants, tin, rubber etc.

If Africa gets rich and stabile the west will have a problem.

Kadhaffi has right. African countries most work together and become like the US with federale states and one goverment. That will give Africa more power.

I apologize for people bringing up attacks on you about Moroccans involved in terrorism. It was totally uncalled for since you had not started to insullt Nigerians. Unfortunately if you dont agree with Matthias, he will accuse you of being a racist or will try to start an attack either on you or your contry. I can only apologize.

Popa1980, simply button your lips, I have made more for this forum in the past 2 1/2 years of its existence than you with your silly and provocative comments you left here. At least I carry my heart on my tongue and don´t come along with bloated words like you. Wheny was the last time you came up with a pic about your "home country" Ghana or with any meaningful and positive debate?? Oh simply say what you want about me, feel free to wrap me up with your slimy presence.


Misterdz, amazed to see that you changed sides but to my utter surprise you are using now a new strategy: your positive arguments on Africa only got more, once you felt cornered and you knew that your former strategy miserably failed. Where had you been all the time before? Your interest in Africa HAD BEEN ZERO about 2 days back. Now, you want to be "MR. Nice Guy"...LOL. Well, at least you are more bearable this way than the other way round.

I think that we as Africans need to work hard to improve sitiuations in our countries rather than commenting on stupid articles like the one Abdellah posted. Journalists whoe writes those kind of articles are agents of some western countries who don't want to see Africans doing thimgs for themselves.

I believ that these people do not want to see Africans doing business amongst themselves simply because its gonna impact their economies because we will nto be depending on them anymore and we have got plenty of natural resources. Nigeria and South Africa have signed a contract, it was in 2005 if I'm not mistaken, whereby South Africans will be maintaining and providing service to their oil riggs. This is what I would like to see happening, I mean all African countries helping one another.

I know that plenty of South Africans visit Mozambique every year and most of them keep going back. I would like to see more of these happening between all African countries.

Pule, if only more people could be like you and Kulani from your country this forum would be so much more delightful!

At least you have been loyal to your principles and attitudes from the beginning and your interest for Africa is sincere and diversified!:)

I think that we as Africans need to work hard to improve sitiuations in our countries rather than commenting on stupid articles like the one Abdellah posted. Journalists whoe writes those kind of articles are agents of some western countries who don't want to see Africans doing thimgs for themselves.

I agree, much work still remains to be done but Africa is moving forwards and ppl in the west dont want to acknowledge that (especially ppl at the daily mail cause its a conservative newspaper) because it threatens their petty little establishment.

Popa1980, simply button your lips, I have made more for this forum in the past 2 1/2 years of its existence than you with your silly and provocative comments you left here. At least I carry my heart on my tongue and don´t come along with bloated words like you. Wheny was the last time you came up with a pic about your "home country" Ghana or with any meaningful and positive debate?? Oh simply say what you want about me, feel free to wrap me up with your slimy presence.


Misterdz, amazed to see that you changed sides but to my utter surprise you are using now a new strategy: your positive arguments on Africa only got more, once you felt cornered and you knew that your former strategy miserably failed. Where had you been all the time before? Your interest in Africa HAD BEEN ZERO about 2 days back. Now, you want to be "MR. Nice Guy"...LOL. Well, at least you are more bearable this way than the other way round.


Pule, if only more people could be like you and Kulani from your country this forum would be so much more delightful!

At least you have been loyal to your principles and attitudes from the beginning and your interest for Africa is sincere and diversified!:)


impressive structure in your argument matthias

What were the indicators they used, please? When was the list first published? The list is highly doubtful.....how can it be that Central Africa Republic is better rated than countries like Mocambique, Angola and Ivory Coast?:ohno: Zimbabwe is better than Nigeria????:lol: :nuts:

Sorry, but this rating is dismissed!


Besides, Mauritius is not even on the list.

Rural poverty in Nigeria

Despite its plentiful resources and oil wealth, poverty is widespread in Nigeria. The situation has worsened since the late 1990s, to the extent that the country is now considered one of the 20 poorest countries in the world. Over 70 per cent of the population is classified as poor, with 35 per cent living in absolute poverty.

Poverty is especially severe in rural areas, where social services and infrastructure are limited or non-existent. The great majority of those who live in rural areas are poor and depend on agriculture for food and income. About 90 per cent of the country’s food is produced by small-scale farmers cultivating tiny plots of land who depend on rainfall rather than irrigation systems. Surveys show that across the country 44 per cent of male farmers and 72 per cent of female farmers cultivate less than 1 ha per household. Women play a major role in the production, processing and marketing of food crops. The poorest groups eke out a subsistence living but often go short of food, particularly during the pre-harvest period. A high proportion of rural people suffer from malnutrition and other diseases related to poor nutrition. The HIV/AIDS pandemic has also taken a heavy toll among the rural population.

Who are Nigeria’s rural poor people?



Women and households headed by women are frequently the most chronically poor within rural communities. Women have lower social status than men and consequently less access to schooling and training, particularly in childcare and health practices. Yet women play significant roles in rural economic activities. While the number of men migrating from rural areas in search of employment has increased over the last decades, the number of households headed by women has risen substantially. Women struggle to cope as the burden of work, at home and in the fields, falls on their shoulders. Malnutrition is a frequent problem in these households.

Other vulnerable groups among rural poor people are young couples with children, the disabled, and old people with no relatives to support them.

Where are Nigeria’s rural poor people?



Rural poverty tends to be evenly distributed across the country, rather than concentrated in specific geographic areas. However, in some zones the poverty situation threatens to worsen considerably, such as in the northern area bordering the Niger, which is arid, marginal to agriculture, environmentally damaged and densely populated. The fishing communities living in the mangrove swamps and along the Atlantic coast are among the poorest in Nigeria.

Why are they poor?

Rural infrastructure in Nigeria has long been neglected, while investments in health, education and water supply have largely been focused on the cities. As a result, the rural population has extremely limited access to services such as schools and health centres, and about half of the population lacks access to safe drinking water. Limited education opportunities and poor health perpetuate the poverty cycle.

Neglect of rural infrastructure has also reduced the profitability of producing for the markets. Nigeria’s rural road network is one of the least developed in sub-Saharan Africa. The poor tend to live in isolated villages that can become virtually inaccessible during the rainy seasons. When there is a post-harvest marketable surplus, it is not always easy to reach the markets. Limited accessibility has also cut off small-scale farmers from sources of inputs, equipment and new technology. Crop yields are low because farmers lack these inputs. In particular, inadequate access to fertilizer is a real problem in many parts of the country where farmers have to cope with diminishing soil fertility. The situation is aggravated by the fact that many farmers have access only to small parcels of land for cultivation.

As the population swells and puts pressure on diminishing resources, escalating environmental problems further threaten food production. Land degradation, as a result of extensive agriculture, deforestation and overgrazing, is already at an alarming level in many parts of the country. Drought has become common in the north, while in the south and south-east erosion provoked by heavy rains, floods and oil pollution is a major problem. Large parts of Nigeria’s primary forests, and the wildlife that they harbour, are disappearing.

Civil unrest aggravates poverty

Poverty and violence are often closely interconnected. Both religious and ethnic tensions continue to brew in different parts of Nigeria, erupting into outbreaks of violence and leading in turn to a situation of escalating poverty and malnutrition. The move towards political liberalization has allowed militants from religious and ethnic groups to express their frustrations more freely, and with increasing violence. Thousands have died over the past years in clashes between different ethnic and religious groups and separatist bids for independence. Since 1999, violence between Christians and Muslims has become increasingly common.

In the Niger delta, where the oil industry is based, a vigorous trade in stolen oil has led to a serious breakdown of law and order in that area. A number of acts of sabotage have been carried out against the multinational oil companies by groups seeking a greater share of the oil resources for the Niger delta population.

Source: IFAD

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/english/regions/africa/nga/index.htm


Matthias, you can only attack people. We are talking about economies and Matthias is only attacking people and countries and calling their names. You have no respect...

We all know Moroccans always like to attack others progress. The truth is Nigeria is moving - a moving train - it wheels on till it's stopped by whatever factors.

Rural population makes the largest of the Nigerian population if am quite right. They have often depended on Agriculture, for sustainance, which employ the largest of the population also. Their income maybe small but they survive based on their standard of living, this doesn't mean they are absolutely poor cos you are now comparing them with people living in the urban areas.

Nigeria has a vibrant society just like the Chinese. Hard working and willing to educate their populace on the need for change. The past have to be on record this might quite explain why you don't see change but not as you are putting it here,Moroccan.A closer look at things, if Nigeria can really make some changes in the Banking sector, telecommunication, within a short period of time under a nascent democracy there is every tendensy that they will do better with the right implementations. Agriculture is climbing up, the manufacturing industries will soon follow which will revolutionize the whole economy. The Nigeria economy is the second largest( with all the problems listed by you) in Africa after South Africa. Clearly the economy will be better if the right hindering factors are taken care of, like Corruption ( the incumbent president is fight tooth and nail to curb it), provision of infrastrutures - roads, railway (the chinese is helping with that), power generation (I heard they are spending over a trillion Naira(approximately 80b Dollars) for that and foreign investment that will pour in as the world is soon convinced of nature of the country.

There is every edge in the Nigeria progress and this does not only need foreign investments but also the diversifying of the economy as few private individuals are doing right now - in the area of telecommunication( Globacom), manufacturing (dangote sugar factories, etc), Banking sector (intercontinetal bank, ecobank, UBA,etc). I gather most of these from the leading economic magazines of the world.

Let's not start to doubt the nation of Nigeria progress so early. I think more really need to be done in the overhauling of the whole sectors of the Economy rather than just considering living standard alone.


*Correction, Finland is not richer than United States nor the economy of Finland bigger. The ranking could be best based on Standard of living for the generality of the countries.

Hence why I'm saying we should wait and see what happens. The key is long term sustainability, you can't judge "virgin" growth now and use it as a pretext for greatness, nor can you dismiss it. So without trying to sound like a repetetive parrot, we need to see if all this is sustainable and truly grabs a great junk of the Nigerian economy, away from Petroleum.


So, why do you think we have to wait? For the end justifies the means? but not with diversification.

Your are wrong. India has an economic boom but all lot of people live in poverty. It is only a small part who is getting very rich.

That is the same for China.

But good things about this countries is that they are not dependend on oil, gaz etc and that all sectors are doing very good. The economic boom is India is because of the IT sector and manifacturing sector. In China is that because of the manifacturing sector. That is why they are regarded as emerging countries...


Are you making a relative comparison or absolute comparison?

stop stop stop stop this dog-on bickering and start REASONING OUT AND DISCUSSING!!!! how hard is that? 80% of this thread is not informative and lacks perspective. i have my own points and opinions but i cant post them here bcoz it is now an arguement instead of a discussion. am i the only one who can see this? moderator do your job please.

Forum is often like that. Say what you want to say.

So, why do you think we have to wait? For the end justifies the means? but not with diversification.

I don't quite understand your second question, but with regards to your first, yes we have to wait. When you start from a very low base, their will always be high if not explosive growth. The key is if it can turn into consistent trend, I'm still skeptical whether thats true or not.

Besides, Mauritius is not even on the list.

Well their missing almost 60 nations, some of them have no recorded data. Besides the list takes enivoromental/hygenic aspects into account.

Well their missing almost 60 nations, some of them have no recorded data. Besides the list takes enivoromental/hygenic aspects into account.
^^
Last time I checked, there were 53 countries on the continent.

^^
Last time I checked, there were 53 countries on the continent.

Last time I checked their were over 190 countries in the world :)

Boom? I don't thinkso, for the last 4 years Egypt grew on average just over 4% a year. This could be attributed to the 9-11 phenomenon which hurt the tourist industry, however this is what I think. Egypt will grow at a strong pace this year, almost 7% but the question is whether it can be sustained and if it isn't just a "correction" from 4 years of mediocre growth.

Egypt's tourism industry will always be at heart, but as you stated textiles are a real important segment of the Egyptian economy. 30% of its exports are textiles, but how will nations like China and India who have a larger labor pool who are also cheaper affect Egypt. You also cannot ignore the political situation, with the Brotherhood gaining support, Mubarak could lose power, I doubt islamists will be friendly to foreign investors.

The Egytian is witnessing economic boom. The economy is growing at 7.5% GDP.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think this thread was about Africa's largest economies and I think it remain an economic discussion. I would also like to suggest that when we post information on this topic, we should do so with the understanding that this forum is for discussion so all these attacks and counter-attacks lead to a cycle of meaningless faulty arguments based not on facts but on the forumers own personal non-factual analysis.
We can critisize Bussiness Week "facts" but we should try and provide data to support our position.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think this thread was about Africa's largest economies and I think it remain an economic discussion. I would also like to suggest that when we post information on this topic, we should do so with the understanding that this forum is for discussion so all these attacks and counter-attacks lead to a cycle of meaningless faulty arguments based not on facts but on the forumers own personal non-factual analysis.
We can critisize Bussiness Week "facts" but we should try and provide data to support our position.

You can say that again, in Africa people will refute statistics from reputable sources who actually spent time collecting and analyzing data with some numbers that they just came up with from no where. More like this is what is going to make me happy or i actually saw that there are more X5 bmws in my town so we must be growing really fast.

:nuts: :nuts:

I think its best for people to watch SABCAfrica, I'm glad that it shows the posetive about our continent and hey, this continent is alive. There's more to it than you can ever think. Programs like Africa Within and Studio 59 will make you hate CNN and the likes for good as they show the good of Africa in terms of Fashion, Tourist, etc.

According to latest version of The Economist's "THE WORLD IN 2008" Angola 's latest GDP growth rate is 21.1%
2007 GDP = $66b
Population = 17.3m
GDP Per capital = $3,820 (compared to Nigeria = $1,020; Egypt = $1,870)

At this rate they will soon be the biggest in Africa!
They just need to diversify the economic base now, and avoid Nigeria's mistakes.

According to latest version of The Economist's "THE WORLD IN 2008" Angola 's latest GDP growth rate is 21.1%
2007 GDP = $66b
Population = 17.3m
GDP Per capital = $3,820 (compared to Nigeria = $1,020; Egypt = $1,870)

At this rate they will soon be the biggest in Africa!
They just need to diversify the economic base now, and avoid Nigeria's mistakes.

South Africa and Egypt may have more powerful armies, but no African country is more involved in the security arrangements of its surrounding region than Nigeria. South Africa may have a higher level of industrialization but no African country's economic health is more vital to its neighbors

"Oil-rich Nigeria can submerge its neighbors in its economic woes or float them when it is flush. Beyond that, as the world's seventh-largest oil producer and the United States' biggest trading partner on the continent, it is perhaps the only African country whose sudden disappearance from the map would cause more than a moment's ripple in international markets.

The former American Secretary of State, Madeleine K. Albright, has often spoken of the United States as the world's one ''essential nation.'' But in Africa, such is the weight of Nigeria, with its 145 million people, large military forces and hyperactive foreign policy that many would quibble with America's self-designation.

Just ask Ahmad Tejan Kabbah, the former democratically elected President of Sierra Leone, a country 1,000 miles to the west of Nigeria, who was overthrown in a coup 13 months ago by a combination of renegade soldiers and rural rebels who invaded the capital, Freetown, looting and burning all in their path.

Washington quickly sent the Marines to evacuate Western residents, saving them from the mayhem but doing nothing to relieve the country's distress. The United Nations, likewise, took no action. The only country that proved willing and able to help put out the flames was Nigeria.

Nigeria sent warships to blockade the rebels, starving their economy, and airplanes to bomb the insurrectionists' positions. When all of that didn't suffice, she mounted an intervention by land, losing dozens of soldiers but succeeding in the goal of restoring order -- and, by the way, President Kabbah. "

this probably fits better here.

courtesy of the Latin American forum.

PIB NOMINAL 2006

Rank Country GDP (millions of USD)
— Gross world product 48,144,466
— European Union 14,527,140
1 United States 13,244,550
2 Japan 4,367,459
3 Germany 2,897,032
4 People's Republic of China 2,630,113 2
5 United Kingdom 2,373,685
6 France 2,231,631
7 Italy 1,852,585
8 Canada 1,269,096
9 Spain 1,225,750
10 Brazil 1,067,706
11 Russia 979,048
12 India 886,867
13 South Korea 884,267
14 Mexico 840,012
15 Australia 754,816 1
16 Netherlands 663,119
17 Belgium 393,590 1
18 Turkey 392,424
19 Sweden 385,293 1
20 Switzerland 377,240
21 Indonesia 364,239
22 Republic of China (Taiwan) 355,708
23 Saudi Arabia 348,604 1
24 Poland 338,689 1
25 Norway 335,281
26 Austria 321,934
27 Greece 307,709
28 Denmark 276,611
29 South Africa 255,155
30 Ireland 222,080
31 Argentina 212,702 1
32 Iran 212,492 1
33 Finland 210,837 1
34 Thailand 206,258
35 Portugal 194,989
36 Hong Kong, PRC 189,538
37 Venezuela 181,608 1
38 United Arab Emirates 168,263
39 Malaysia 150,923
40 Chile 145,205
41 Czech Republic 141,801
42 Israel 140,195
43 Colombia 135,075
44 Singapore 132,155
45 Pakistan 128,996 1
46 Romania 121,901
47 Philippines 116,931
48 Nigeria 115,350 1
49 Algeria 114,322 1
50 Hungary 114,273 1
51 Egypt 107,375 1
52 Ukraine 106,072
53 New Zealand 103,380
54 Kuwait 96,132 1
55 Peru 93,268
56 Kazakhstan 77,237
57 Bangladesh 65,216
58 Vietnam 60,995
59 Morocco 57,407
60 Slovakia 54,969
61 Qatar 52,722
62 Libya 50,330 1
63 Angola 43,759 1
64 Croatia 42,456
65 Luxembourg 40,577
66 Ecuador 40,447
67 Sudan 37,564 1
68 Slovenia 37,340
69 Belarus 36,944
70 Oman 35,992 1
71 Guatemala 35,304
72 Dominican Republic 31,600 1
73 Serbia 31,589 1
74 Syria 31,505 1
75 Tunisia 30,620 1
76 Bulgaria 30,608
77 Lithuania 29,784
78 Sri Lanka 26,794
79 Kenya 23,1871
80 Lebanon 22,622 1
81 Turkmenistan 21,846 1
82 Costa Rica 21,384
83 Trinidad and Tobago 19,935 1
84 Azerbaijan 19,817
85 Latvia 19,621 1
86 Uruguay 19,221
87 Yemen 18,700
88 Cameroon 18,372 1
89 El Salvador 18,341
90 Cyprus 18,235
91 Côte d'Ivoire 17,339
92 Panama 17,113 1
93 Iceland 16,579
94 Estonia 16,410
95 Uzbekistan 16,088
96 Bahrain 16,065 1
97 Jordan 14,318
98 Ethiopia 13,315 1
99 Myanmar 13,002 1
100 Ghana 12,894 1
101 Tanzania 12,787
102 Brunei Darussalam 11,438
103 Bosnia and Herzegovina 11,396
104 Zambia 10,942 1
105 Bolivia 10,828
106 Botswana 10,808 1
107 Jamaica 10,565
108 Uganda 9,443
109 Senegal 9,242 1
110 Equatorial Guinea 9,135 1
111 Albania 9,133 1
112 Gabon 9,124 1
113 Honduras 8,981
114 Paraguay 8,773
115 Democratic Republic of the Congo 8,543
116 Afghanistan 8,399 1
117 Nepal 7,994
118 Georgia 7,830
119 Republic of the Congo 7,399
120 Mozambique 7,296 1
121 Cambodia 7,096 1
122 Chad 6,547 1
123 Armenia 6,410
124 Mauritius 6,402
125 Namibia 6,316 1
126 Republic of Macedonia 6,248
127 The Bahamas 6,223 1
128 Mali 6,191
129 Malta 6,085
130 Burkina Faso 6,055 1
131 Zimbabwe 5,540 1
132 Madagascar 5,489
133 Nicaragua 5,369 1
134 Benin 4,760 1
135 Haiti 4,473 1
136 Papua New Guinea 4,338 1
137 Niger 3,550 1
138 Laos 3,437 1
139 Barbados 3,386 1
140 Guinea 3,317 1
141 Moldova 3,242
142 Netherlands Antilles 3,204 1
143 Fiji 2,977 1
144 Kyrgyzstan 2,822
145 Tajikistan 2,811
146 Mongolia 2,803 1
147 Mauritania 2,663
148 Swaziland 2,637 1
149 Rwanda 2,397 1
150 Malawi 2,238
151 Togo 2,210
152 Suriname 2,112 1
153 Lesotho 1,634 1
154 Cape Verde 1,150 1
155 Central African Republic 1,488 1
156 Sierra Leone 1,419 1
157 Belize 1,213 1
158 Eritrea 1,160 1
159 Maldives 988
160 Bhutan 983 1
161 Antigua and Barbuda 962
162 Saint Lucia 933
163 Burundi 908 1
164 Guyana 870 1
165 Djibouti 768 1
166 Seychelles 749 1
167 Liberia 622
168 Grenada 529 1
169 The Gambia 507 1
170 Saint Kitts and Nevis 487 1
171 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 466 1
172 Comoros 402
173 Vanuatu 387 1
174 Samoa 365
175 East Timor 356 1
176 Solomon Islands 321
177 Guinea-Bissau 305 1
178 Dominica 300 1
179 Tonga 224
180 São Tomé and Príncipe 79 1
181 Kiribati 60 1


PIB PPP 2006 /2007/2008 <--- projeções
1 Estados Unidos 12.954.713 13.543.330 14.045.507
2 China 10.147.333 11.606.336 12.988.640
3 India 4.231.583 4.726.537 5.210.206
4 Japón 4.155.548 4.346.080 4.494.659
5 Alemania 2.583.156 2.714.469 2.816.044
6 Reino Unido 2.148.069 2.270.884 2.363.972
7 Francia 1.952.630 2.040.109 2.116.969
8 Brasil 1.881.277 2.013.893 2.131.608
9 Italia 1.809.486 1.888.492 1.947.008
10 Rusia 1.738.981 1.908.739 2.068.083
11 España 1.232.236 1.310.206 1.369.535
12 México 1.183.956 1.249.738 1.309.568
13 Corea del Sur 1.163.191 1.250.490 1.330.218
14 Canadá 1.157.092 1.217.069 1.266.904
15 Indonesia 967.317 1.053.696 1.137.372
16 Taiwán 702.015 749.943 792.213
17 Australia 682.195 730.590 771.454
18 Turquía 670.855 722.581 773.713
19 Argentina 626.665 691.054 741.713
20 Sudáfrica 618.125 663.950 703.709
21 Tailandia 604.575 645.228 685.754
22 Países Bajos 603.711 635.633 663.106
23 Irán 595.440 647.592 698.587
24 Polonia 577.801 631.833 676.803
25 Filipinas 466.632 509.061 547.692
26 Pakistán 426.489 465.416 504.269
27 Arabia Saudita 391.126 417.669 443.274
28 Colombia 386.353 422.483 450.231
29 Bélgica 367.522 386.895 401.261
30 Grecia 367.153 391.395 412.521
31 Ucrania 365.327 399.866 428.973
32 Egipto 353.112 387.900 423.464
33 Bangladesh 332.497 360.965 389.417
34 Suecia 316.548 336.409 351.830
35 Malasia 315.583 342.344 367.789
36 Austria 300.506 318.428 332.006
37 Vietnam 286.390 318.091 350.147
38 Suiza 282.040 296.259 306.076
39 Hong Kong 267.151 289.748 308.498
40 Argelia 259.476 278.889 298.448
41 Portugal 242.807 253.557 262.472
42 República Checa 240.192 260.305 276.889
43 Rumania 219.096 238.910 257.640
44 Israel 215.853 232.753 245.779
45 Chile 209.852 227.879 243.425
46 Noruega 207.033 219.710 231.994
47 Hungría 202.009 211.575 221.058
48 Venezuela 201.674 223.430 240.946
49 Dinamarca 200.367 209.373 216.153
50 Perú 189.487 207.985 224.290
51 Irlanda 189.198 202.918 212.562
52 Finlandia 186.511 199.562 209.152
53 Nigeria 183.871 196.760 216.245
54 Marruecos 175.461 184.489 198.785
55 Singapur 147.855 163.075 175.537
56 Kazajistán 144.526 161.155 176.658
57 Emiratos Árabes Unidos 144.249 159.326 172.807
58 Myanmar 129.601 140.209 148.345
59 Nueva Zelanda 107.241 113.113 117.696
60 Sri Lanka 106.509 116.360 126.073
61 Sudán 100.730 114.929 129.447
62 Eslovaquia 96.937 108.237 118.199
63 Túnez 91.291 99.228 107.185
64 Bielorrusia 88.693 98.080 106.168
65 Etiopía 84.299 95.583 106.602
66 Siria 81.910 87.288 92.126
67 República Dominicana 81.119 89.870 95.544
68 Bulgaria 77.094 83.798 90.260
69 Libia 76.705 85.904 93.402
70 Ecuador 65.465 68.939 72.532
71 Kuwait 64.662 68.629 73.169
72 Croacia 64.491 69.866 74.419
73 Uzbekistán 61.009 68.091 74.468
74 Ghana 59.678 65.103 70.785
75 Guatemala 56.282 60.506 64.203
76 Angola 56.203 70.965 91.825
77 Lituania 55.573 61.568 66.708
78 Azerbaiyán 54.932 72.858 91.315
79 Costa Rica 52.215 56.777 60.650
80 Serbia 50.165 54.547 58.268
81 República Democrática del Congo 49.920 54.532 60.165
82 Eslovenia 49.396 53.406 56.374
83 Uganda 49.047 53.438 57.886
84 Omán 48.085 52.268 56.512
85 Camboya 47.788 53.676 58.812
86 Kenia 46.205 50.440 54.653
87 Nepal 45.937 48.300 51.104
88 Turkmenistán 43.584 49.180 55.036
89 Camerún 40.131 42.731 45.777
90 El Salvador 39.210 41.911 44.259
91 Uruguay 38.302 41.334 43.649
92 Luxemburgo 37.666 40.719 43.167
93 Bosnia y Herzegovina 36.554 39.673 42.998
94 Letonia 36.269 41.108 44.397
95 Afganistán 35.980 41.717 46.001
96 Paraguay 31.579 34.014 35.988
97 Jordania 31.413 34.158 36.835
98 Costa de Marfil 31.028 32.355 34.155
99 Tanzania 30.807 33.860 37.031
100 Qatar 30.697 35.971 41.772
101 Mozambique 29.947 32.870 35.781
102 Zimbabue 29.188 28.098 n/a
103 Panamá 28.222 31.411 34.769
104 Bolivia 28.221 30.093 32.256
105 Estonia 26.480 29.345 31.635
106 Botsuana 24.692 26.587 28.454
107 Honduras 23.689 25.613 26.943
108 Senegal 23.650 25.508 27.435
109 Guinea 23.036 23.997 25.650
110 Chipre 23.006 24.497 25.844
111 Nicaragua 22.974 24.547 26.157
112 Trinidad y Tobago 22.711 24.695 26.592
113 Líbano 21.384 22.373 23.557
114 Yemen 21.280 22.615 24.005
115 Guinea Ecuatorial 21.278 24.034 26.428
116 Burkina Faso 18.871 20.511 22.132
117 Madagascar 18.281 19.964 21.787
118 Albania 18.045 19.621 21.160
119 Bahréin 18.028 19.752 21.405
120 Armenia 17.568 20.022 22.406
121 Namibia 17.566 18.880 20.100
122 Malí 16.695 18.011 19.209
123 Mauricio 16.622 17.856 19.015
124 Papúa Nueva Guinea 16.316 17.608 18.630
125 Chad 16.196 16.864 17.861
126 Georgia 16.030 18.253 20.240
127 ARY Macedonia 15.689 16.905 18.060
128 Haití 15.602 16.518 17.520
129 Laos 14.074 15.460 16.922
130 Ruanda 13.279 14.238 15.155
131 Zambia 12.914 14.038 15.168
132 Níger 12.471 13.514 14.485
133 Islandia 12.341 12.920 13.132
134 Jamaica 12.013 12.499 12.969
135 Kirguistán 11.043 12.178 13.257
136 Benín 10.690 11.408 12.217
137 Gabón 10.281 11.056 11.726
138 Brunéi 9.729 10.169 10.586
139 Moldavia 9.715 10.464 11.178
140 Tayikistán 9.534 10.510 11.547
141 Togo 9.486 10.013 10.544
142 Malawi 9.273 10.033 10.737
143 Malta 8.900 9.426 9.841
144 Mongolia 7.495 8.342 9.123
145 Mauritania 7.241 7.493 7.962
146 Bahamas 6.724 7.111 7.524
147 Suazilandia 6.141 6.360 6.537
148 Lesoto 5.419 5.831 6.241
149 Barbados 5.281 5.643 5.896
150 Fiyi 5.276 5.244 5.437
151 Burundi 5.172 5.492 5.913
152 República Centroafricana 5.066 5.405 5.733
153 Sierra Leona 4.995 5.502 5.991
154 República del Congo 4.972 5.291 5.774
155 Eritrea 4.730 4.915 5.068
156 Guyana 3.798 4.114 4.378
157 Cabo Verde 3.561 3.905 4.271
158 Bután 3.492 4.385 4.809
159 Gambia 3.475 3.816 4.114
160 Surinam 3.401 3.674 3.887
161 Maldivas 3.038 3.288 3.496
162 Belice 2.360 2.520 2.640
163 Yibuti 1.897 2.039 2.194
164 Timor Oriental 1.695 2.215 2.340
165 Seychelles 1.637 1.783 1.921
166 Comoras 1.281 1.327 1.391
167 Guinea-Bissau 1.247 1.311 1.362
168 Antigua y Barbuda 1.210 1.289 1.335
169 Santa Lucía 1.206 1.280 1.358
170 Samoa 1.205 1.273 1.341
171 Islas Salomón 1.042 1.127 1.194
172 Granada 976 1.031 1.091
173 San Vicente y las Granadinas 891 954 1.031
174 Tonga 844 836 857
175 Vanuatu 784 844 893
176 San Cristóbal y Nieves 675 720 763
177 Santo Tomé y Príncipe 525 571 616
178 Dominica 419 443 464
179 Kiribati 238 251 259
180 Liberia 62 70 78

African Rank World Rank Country GDP (PPP)
millions of International dollars
1 22 Flag of South Africa South Africa 587,500 2006
2 32 Flag of Egypt Egypt 334,400 2006
3 40 Flag of Algeria Algeria 249,800 2006
4 48 Flag of Nigeria Nigeria 188,500 2006
5 54 Flag of Morocco Morocco 153,250 2006
6 60 Flag of Sudan Sudan 97,190 2006
7 62 Flag of Tunisia Tunisia 91,040 2006
8 70 Flag of Ethiopia Ethiopia 73,790 2006
9 71 Flag of Libya Libya 72,340 2006
10 75 Flag of Ghana Ghana 60,000 2006
11 75 Flag of Uganda Uganda 48,620 2005
12 79 Flag of Angola Angola 43,599 2005
13 82 Flag of Cameroon Cameroon 40,744 2005
14 83 Flag of the Democratic Republic of the Congo Congo-Kinshasa 40,585 2005
15 88 Flag of Kenya Kenya 37,065 2005
16 97 Flag of Côte d'Ivoire Côte d'Ivoire 28,460 2005
17 98 Flag of Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 28,304 2005
18 99 Flag of Tanzania Tanzania 27,006 2005
19 101 Flag of Mozambique Mozambique 25,974 2005
20 103 Flag of Equatorial Guinea Equatorial Guinea 25,439 2005
21 111 Flag of Senegal Senegal 20,482 2005
22 113 Flag of Guinea Guinea 18,945 2005
23 116 Flag of Botswana Botswana 17,207 2005
24 117 Flag of Burkina Faso Burkina Faso 16,916 2005
25 119 Flag of Madagascar Madagascar 16,323 2005
26 120 Flag of Mauritius Mauritius 16,054 2005
27 125 Flag of Chad Chad 14,756 2005
28 127 Flag of Namibia Namibia 14,198 2005
29 129 Flag of Mali Mali 13,532 2005
30 131 Flag of Rwanda Rwanda 12,620 2005
31 134 Flag of Niger Niger 11,260 2005
32 136 Flag of Zambia Zambia 10,568 2005
33 138 Flag of Gabon Gabon 9,514 2005
34 140 Flag of Togo Togo 8,945 2005
35 142 Flag of Benin Benin 8,534 2005
36 145 Flag of Malawi Malawi 7,507 2005
37 146 Flag of Mauritania Mauritania 6,876 2005
38 148 Flag of Swaziland Swaziland 5,646 2005
39 149 Flag of Burundi Burundi 5,642 2005
40 152 Flag of Lesotho Lesotho 5,113 2005
41 153 Flag of Sierra Leone Sierra Leone 4,910 2005
42 154 Flag of the Central African Republic Central African Republic 4,773 2005
43 156 Flag of the Republic of the Congo Congo-Brazzaville 4,621 2005
44 157 Flag of Somalia Somalia 4,597* 2005
45 158 Flag of Eritrea Eritrea 4,250 2005
46 160 Flag of The Gambia Gambia 3,017 2005
47 161 Flag of Cape Verde Cape Verde 2,992 2005
48 163 Flag of Liberia Liberia 2,903* 2005
49 168 Flag of Djibouti Djibouti 1,686 2005
50 169 Flag of Guinea-Bissau Guinea-Bissau 1,182 2005
51 171 Flag of the Comoros Comoros 1,114 2005
52 172 Flag of the Seychelles Seychelles 1,017 2005
53 187 Flag of São Tomé and Príncipe São Tomé and Príncipe 268 2005

Africa GDP-PPP in 2006
Country Population GDP-PPP GDP-PPP per Capita Pop. Est. Date GDP Est. Date % Change GDP-PPP per Capita, Since 2004
Algeria 32,930,091 250,000,000,000 7,591.84 July 2006 2006 7.2%
Angola 12,127,071 53,060,000,000 4,375.34 July 2006 2006 44.0%
Benin 7,862,944 8,989,000,000 1,143.21 July 2006 2006 -0.3%
Botswana 1,639,833 17,940,000,000 10,940.14 July 2006 2006 6.6%
Burkina Faso 13,902,972 18,760,000,000 1,349.35 July 2006 2006 7.9%
Burundi 8,090,068 5,781,000,000 714.58 July 2006 2006 5.5%
Cameroon 17,340,702 42,480,000,000 2,449.73 July 2006 2006 14.2%
Cape Verde 420,979 3,129,000,000 7,432.67 July 2006 2006 126.8%
Central African Republic 4,303,356 4,998,000,000 1,161.42 July 2006 2006 1.2%
Chad 9,944,201 14,980,000,000 1,506.41 July 2006 2006 -4.2%
Comoros 690,948 441,000,000 638.25 July 2006 2002 -2.8%
Congo, Democratic Republic of the 62,660,551 44,440,000,000 709.22 July 2006 2006 -1.6%
Congo, Republic of the 3,702,314 5,099,000,000 1,377.25 July 2006 2006 33.3%
Cote d'Ivoire 17,654,843 29,050,000,000 1,645.44 July 2006 2006 7.3%
Djibouti 486,530 619,000,000 1,272.28 July 2006 2002 -2.0%
Egypt 78,887,007 334,400,000,000 4,238.97 July 2006 2006 1.0%
Equatorial Guinea 540,109 25,690,000,000 47,564.47 July 2006 2005 342.6%
Eritrea 4,786,994 4,471,000,000 933.99 July 2006 2005 0.0%
Ethiopia 74,777,981 74,880,000,000 1,001.36 July 2006 2006 11.3%
Gabon 1,424,906 10,170,000,000 7,137.31 July 2006 2006 10.2%
Gambia, The 1,641,564 3,284,000,000 2,000.53 July 2006 2006 5.2%
Ghana 22,409,572 60,000,000,000 2,677.43 July 2006 2006 7.3%
Guinea 9,690,222 20,160,000,000 2,080.45 July 2006 2006 -0.7%
Guinea-Bissau 1,442,029 1,249,000,000 866.14 July 2006 2006 9.2%
Kenya 34,707,817 41,360,000,000 1,191.66 July 2006 2006 4.9%
Lesotho 2,022,331 5,327,000,000 2,634.09 July 2006 2006 -8.7%
Liberia 3,042,004 2,821,000,000 927.35 July 2006 2006 4.1%
Libya 5,900,754 72,680,000,000 12,317.07 July 2006 2006 36.0%
Madagascar 18,595,469 17,270,000,000 928.72 July 2006 2006 5.7%
Malawi 13,013,926 8,272,000,000 635.63 July 2006 2006 1.1%
Mali 11,716,829 14,770,000,000 1,260.58 July 2006 2006 17.1%
Mauritania 3,177,388 8,124,000,000 2,556.82 July 2006 2006 17.7%
Mauritius 1,240,827 17,000,000,000 13,700.54 July 2006 2006 3.3%
Mayotte 201,234 953,600,000 4,738.76 July 2006 2005 37.4%
Morocco 33,241,259 152,500,000,000 4,587.67 July 2006 2006 4.8%
Mozambique 19,686,505 29,170,000,000 1,481.73 July 2006 2006 9.2%
Namibia 2,044,147 15,440,000,000 7,553.27 July 2006 2006 0.0%
Niger 12,525,094 12,360,000,000 986.82 July 2006 2006 7.4%
Nigeria 131,859,731 191,400,000,000 1,451.54 July 2006 2006 25.9%
Rwanda 8,648,248 13,700,000,000 1,584.14 July 2006 2006 9.9%
Sao Tome and Principe 193,413 214,000,000 1,106.44 July 2006 2003 -3.1%
Senegal 11,987,121 21,540,000,000 1,796.93 July 2006 2006 3.1%
Sierra Leone 6,005,250 5,452,000,000 907.87 July 2006 2006 26.5%
Somalia 8,863,338 5,259,000,000 593.34 July 2006 2006 3.5%
South Africa 44,187,637 587,500,000,000 13,295.57 July 2006 2006 7.5%
Sudan 41,236,378 97,470,000,000 2,363.69 July 2006 2006 10.2%
Swaziland 1,136,334 5,936,000,000 5,223.82 July 2006 2006 0.7%
Tanzania 37,445,392 29,620,000,000 791.02 July 2006 2006 10.5%
Togo 5,548,702 9,271,000,000 1,670.84 July 2006 2006 3.4%
Tunisia 10,175,014 89,740,000,000 8,819.64 July 2006 2006 11.4%
Uganda 28,195,754 52,930,000,000 1,877.23 July 2006 2006 12.2%
Zambia 11,502,010 11,640,000,000 1,012.00 July 2006 2006 6.1%
Zimbabwe 12,236,805 25,360,000,000 2,072.44 July 2006 2006 3.8%
Africa (All) 910,142,549 2,581,043,600,000 2,835.87 July 2006 2006 8.8%

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2007/08/africa-gdp-rankings-for-2006.html

African Rank World Rank Country GDP (PPP)
millions of International dollars
1 22 Flag of South Africa South Africa 587,500 2006
2 32 Flag of Egypt Egypt 334,400 2006
3 40 Flag of Algeria Algeria 249,800 2006
4 48 Flag of Nigeria Nigeria 188,500 2006
5 54 Flag of Morocco Morocco 153,250 2006
6 60 Flag of Sudan Sudan 97,190 2006
7 62 Flag of Tunisia Tunisia 91,040 2006
8 70 Flag of Ethiopia Ethiopia 73,790 2006
9 71 Flag of Libya Libya 72,340 2006
10 75 Flag of Ghana Ghana 60,000 2006
11 75 Flag of Uganda Uganda 48,620 2005
12 79 Flag of Angola Angola 43,599 2005
13 82 Flag of Cameroon Cameroon 40,744 2005
14 83 Flag of the Democratic Republic of the Congo Congo-Kinshasa 40,585 2005
15 88 Flag of Kenya Kenya 37,065 2005
16 97 Flag of Côte d'Ivoire Côte d'Ivoire 28,460 2005
17 98 Flag of Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 28,304 2005
18 99 Flag of Tanzania Tanzania 27,006 2005
19 101 Flag of Mozambique Mozambique 25,974 2005
20 103 Flag of Equatorial Guinea Equatorial Guinea 25,439 2005
21 111 Flag of Senegal Senegal 20,482 2005
22 113 Flag of Guinea Guinea 18,945 2005
23 116 Flag of Botswana Botswana 17,207 2005
24 117 Flag of Burkina Faso Burkina Faso 16,916 2005
25 119 Flag of Madagascar Madagascar 16,323 2005
26 120 Flag of Mauritius Mauritius 16,054 2005
27 125 Flag of Chad Chad 14,756 2005
28 127 Flag of Namibia Namibia 14,198 2005
29 129 Flag of Mali Mali 13,532 2005
30 131 Flag of Rwanda Rwanda 12,620 2005
31 134 Flag of Niger Niger 11,260 2005
32 136 Flag of Zambia Zambia 10,568 2005
33 138 Flag of Gabon Gabon 9,514 2005
34 140 Flag of Togo Togo 8,945 2005
35 142 Flag of Benin Benin 8,534 2005
36 145 Flag of Malawi Malawi 7,507 2005
37 146 Flag of Mauritania Mauritania 6,876 2005
38 148 Flag of Swaziland Swaziland 5,646 2005
39 149 Flag of Burundi Burundi 5,642 2005
40 152 Flag of Lesotho Lesotho 5,113 2005
41 153 Flag of Sierra Leone Sierra Leone 4,910 2005
42 154 Flag of the Central African Republic Central African Republic 4,773 2005
43 156 Flag of the Republic of the Congo Congo-Brazzaville 4,621 2005
44 157 Flag of Somalia Somalia 4,597* 2005
45 158 Flag of Eritrea Eritrea 4,250 2005
46 160 Flag of The Gambia Gambia 3,017 2005
47 161 Flag of Cape Verde Cape Verde 2,992 2005
48 163 Flag of Liberia Liberia 2,903* 2005
49 168 Flag of Djibouti Djibouti 1,686 2005
50 169 Flag of Guinea-Bissau Guinea-Bissau 1,182 2005
51 171 Flag of the Comoros Comoros 1,114 2005
52 172 Flag of the Seychelles Seychelles 1,017 2005
53 187 Flag of São Tomé and Príncipe São Tomé and Príncipe 268 2005

That data seem to be from the CIA world factbook, It's good for general statistics but its not entirely up to date. My list is from the IMF's most recent update.

another link

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp-economy-gdp-nominal

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom) Date
#1 United States: 12,416,510,000,000 2005 ...
#2 Japan: 4,533,965,000,000 2005 ...
#3 Germany: 2,794,926,000,000 2005 ...
#4 China: 2,234,297,000,000 2005 ...
#5 United Kingdom: 2,198,789,000,000 2005 ...
#6 France: 2,126,630,000,000 2005 ...
#7 Italy: 1,762,519,000,000 2005 ...
#8 Spain: 1,124,640,000,000 2005 ...
#9 Canada: 1,113,810,000,000 2005 ...
#10 India: 805,713,800,000 2005 ...
#11 Brazil: 796,055,200,000 2005 ...
#12 Korea, South: 787,624,500,000 2005 ...
#13 Mexico: 768,437,500,000 2005 ...
#14 Russia: 763,720,000,000 2005 ...
#15 Australia: 732,499,200,000 2005 ...
#16 Netherlands: 624,202,200,000 2005 ...
#17 Belgium: 370,824,300,000 2005 ...
#18 Switzerland: 367,029,400,000 2005 ...
#19 Turkey: 362,501,700,000 2005 ...
#20 Sweden: 357,682,600,000 2005 ...
#21 Saudi Arabia: 309,778,500,000 2005 ...
#22 Austria: 306,072,900,000 2005 ...
#23 Poland: 303,228,600,000 2005 ...
#24 Norway: 295,512,800,000 2005 ...
#25 Indonesia: 287,216,800,000 2005 ...
#26 Denmark: 258,714,400,000 2005 ...
#27 South Africa: 239,543,200,000 2005 ...
#28 Greece: 225,206,300,000 2005 ...
#29 Ireland: 201,816,900,000 2005 ...
#30 Finland: 193,160,100,000 2005 ...
#31 Iran: 189,783,800,000 2005 ...
#32 Portugal: 183,304,800,000 2005 ...
#33 Argentina: 183,193,400,000 2005 ...
#34 Hong Kong: 177,702,600,000 2005 ...
#35 Thailand: 176,633,600,000 2005 ...
#36 Venezuela: 140,191,900,000 2005 ...
#37 Malaysia: 130,326,100,000 2005 ...
#38 United Arab Emirates: 129,701,600,000 2005 ...
#39 Czech Republic: 124,364,500,000 2005 ...
#40 Israel: 123,433,600,000 2005 ...
#41 Colombia: 122,308,600,000 2005 ...
#42 Singapore: 116,763,700,000 2005 ...
#43 Chile: 115,247,800,000 2005 ...
#44 Pakistan: 110,732,100,000 2005 ...
#45 New Zealand: 109,291,400,000 2005 ...
#46 Hungary: 109,239,000,000 2005 ...
#47 Algeria: 102,255,900,000 2005 ...
#48 Philippines: 99,029,360,000 2005 ...
#49 Nigeria: 98,950,500,000 2005 ...
#50 Romania: 98,565,380,000 2005 ...
#51 Egypt: 89,369,290,000 2005 ...
#52 Ukraine: 82,876,290,000 2005 ...
#53 Kuwait: 80,780,820,000 2005 ...
#54 Peru: 79,378,780,000 2005 ...
#55 Puerto Rico: 67,897,100,000 2001 ...
#56 Bangladesh: 60,033,520,000 2005 ...
#57 Kazakhstan: 57,123,670,000 2005 ...
#58 Vietnam: 52,408,340,000 2005 ...
#59 Morocco: 51,620,980,000 2005 ...
#60 Slovakia: 46,411,960,000 2005 ...
#61 Qatar: 42,462,640,000 2005 ...
#62 Libya: 38,756,110,000 2005 ...
#63 Croatia: 38,505,550,000 2005 ...
#64 Ecuador: 36,488,920,000 2005 ...
#65 Luxembourg: 36,468,720,000 2005 ...
#66 Slovenia: 34,353,700,000 2005 ...
#67 Angola: 32,810,670,000 2005 ...
#68 Guatemala: 31,716,790,000 2005 ...
#69 Belarus: 29,565,560,000 2005 ...
#70 Dominican Republic: 29,501,900,000 2005 ...
#71 Tunisia: 28,683,350,000 2005 ...
#72 Sudan: 27,542,190,000 2005 ...
#73 Bulgaria: 26,648,140,000 2005 ...
#74 Syria: 26,320,020,000 2005 ...
#75 Serbia and Montenegro: 26,215,220,000 2005 ...
#76 Lithuania: 25,624,780,000 2005 ...
#77 Oman: 24,283,990,000 2004 ...
#78 Sri Lanka: 23,478,920,000 2005 ...
#79 Lebanon: 21,944,280,000 2005 ...
#80 Costa Rica: 20,020,780,000 2005 ...
#81 Kenya: 18,730,380,000 2005 ...
#82 El Salvador: 16,974,000,000 2005 ...
#83 Cameroon: 16,874,610,000 2005 ...
#84 Uruguay: 16,790,930,000 2005 ...
#85 Côte d'Ivoire: 16,344,320,000 2005 ...
#86 Latvia: 15,826,160,000 2005 ...
#87 Iceland: 15,813,890,000 2005 ...
#88 Panama: 15,466,700,000 2005 ...
#89 Cyprus: 15,418,350,000 2004 ...
#90 Yemen: 15,065,510,000 2005 ...
#91 Trinidad and Tobago: 14,358,100,000 2005 ...
#92 Uzbekistan: 13,950,900,000 2005 ...
#93 Estonia: 13,101,240,000 2005 ...
#94 Bahrain: 12,914,440,000 2005 ...
#95 Jordan: 12,711,630,000 2005 ...
#96 Iraq: 12,602,490,000 2003 ...
#97 Azerbaijan: 12,561,280,000 2005 ...
#98 Tanzania: 12,111,040,000 2005 ...
#99 Ethiopia: 11,174,290,000 2005 ...
#100 Ghana: 10,720,350,000 2005 ...
#101 Botswana: 10,317,480,000 2005 ...
#102 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 9,948,769,000 2005 ...
#103 Jamaica: 9,574,133,000 2005 ...
#104 Bolivia: 9,333,579,000 2005 ...
#105 Uganda: 8,724,478,000 2005 ...
#106 Albania: 8,380,315,000 2005 ...
#107 Honduras: 8,290,948,000 2005 ...
#108 Senegal: 8,238,430,000 2005 ...
#109 Turkmenistan: 8,066,787,000 2005 ...
#110 Gabon: 8,055,465,000 2005 ...
#111 Nepal: 7,390,748,000 2005 ...
#112 Paraguay: 7,327,690,000 2005 ...
#113 Afghanistan: 7,308,498,000 2005 ...
#114 Zambia: 7,270,075,000 2005 ...
#115 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 7,102,644,000 2005 ...
#116 Macau: 6,657,669,000 2002 ...
#117 Mozambique: 6,636,347,000 2005 ...
#118 Brunei: 6,399,988,000 2005 ...
#119 Georgia: 6,394,858,000 2005 ...
#120 Mauritius: 6,289,630,000 2005 ...
#121 Cambodia: 6,187,498,000 2005 ...
#122 Namibia: 6,126,181,000 2005 ...
#123 Macedonia, Republic of: 5,766,179,000 2005 ...
#124 Malta: 5,569,653,000 2005 ...
#125 Bahamas, The: 5,502,000,000 2003 ...
#126 Chad: 5,468,701,000 2005 ...
#127 Mali: 5,305,319,000 2005 ...
#128 Burkina Faso: 5,171,203,000 2005 ...
#129 Congo, Republic of the: 5,090,736,000 2005 ...
#130 Madagascar: 5,039,951,000 2005 ...
#131 Papua New Guinea: 4,945,034,000 2005 ...
#132 Nicaragua: 4,911,046,000 2005 ...
#133 Armenia: 4,902,779,000 2005 ...
#134 Benin: 4,287,464,000 2005 ...
#135 Haiti: 4,268,152,000 2005 ...
#136 French Polynesia: 3,447,543,000 2000 ...
#137 Niger: 3,405,135,000 2005 ...
#138 Zimbabwe: 3,372,496,000 2005 ...
#139 Guinea: 3,289,281,000 2005 ...
#140 Equatorial Guinea: 3,230,528,000 2005 ...
#141 Barbados: 3,090,538,000 2005 ...
#142 Moldova: 2,916,994,000 2005 ...
#143 Laos: 2,875,204,000 2005 ...
#144 Swaziland: 2,730,501,000 2005 ...
#145 Fiji: 2,728,918,000 2005 ...
#146 New Caledonia: 2,682,347,000 2000 ...
#147 Kyrgyzstan: 2,440,771,000 2005 ...
#148 Tajikistan: 2,312,031,000 2005 ...
#149 Man, Isle of: 2,264,913,000 2003 ...
#150 Bermuda: 2,252,641,000 1997 ...
#151 Togo: 2,202,788,000 2005 ...
#152 Rwanda: 2,153,494,000 2005 ...
#153 Malawi: 2,072,071,000 2005 ...
#154 Virgin Islands: 1,996,000,000 1993 ...
#155 Aruba: 1,911,173,000 2002 ...
#156 Mongolia: 1,880,449,000 2005 ...
#157 Mauritania: 1,850,343,000 2005 ...
#158 Lesotho: 1,450,333,000 2005 ...
#159 Central African Republic: 1,369,183,000 2005 ...
#160 Suriname: 1,341,638,000 2005 ...
#161 Greenland: 1,252,457,000 1996 ...
#162 Sierra Leone: 1,192,621,000 2005 ...
#163 Netherlands Antilles: 1,172,111,000 1985 ...
#164 Belize: 1,104,900,000 2005 ...
#165 Cayman Islands: 1,012,444,000 1996 ...
#166 Cape Verde: 983,094,600 2005 ...
#167 Eritrea: 969,871,000 2005 ...
#168 Somalia: 917,044,200 1990 ...
#169 San Marino: 879,900,700 2002 ...
#170 Antigua and Barbuda: 875,751,400 2005 ...
#171 Bhutan: 843,737,100 2005 ...
#172 Saint Lucia: 825,185,200 2005 ...
#173 Burundi: 799,837,400 2005 ...
#174 Guyana: 786,912,600 2005 ...
#175 Maldives: 765,581,600 2005 ...
#176 Djibouti: 708,773,900 2005 ...
#177 Seychelles: 693,636,400 2005 ...
#178 Liberia: 548,400,000 2005 ...
#179 Grenada: 474,000,000 2005 ...
#180 Gambia, The: 461,242,300 2005 ...
#181 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 453,000,000 2005 ...
#182 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 430,000,000 2005 ...
#183 Samoa: 403,921,800 2005 ...
#184 Comoros: 387,037,200 2005 ...
#185 East Timor: 349,000,000 2005 ...
#186 Vanuatu: 340,516,500 2005 ...
#187 Guinea-Bissau: 301,111,000 2005 ...
#188 Solomon Islands: 298,000,000 2005 ...
#189 Dominica: 283,564,800 2005 ...
#190 Micronesia, Federated States of: 231,700,000 2005 ...
#191 Tonga: 213,853,300 2005 ...
#192 Palau: 144,665,000 2005 ...
#193 Marshall Islands: 144,357,000 2005 ...
#194 Kiribati: 76,437,110 2005 ...
#195 São Tomé and Príncipe: 70,573,780 2005 ...
Total: 44,181,363,108,890
Weighted average: 226,571,092,866.1

Yeah those figures are old, I know for a fact that Brazil has over a trillion dollar economy using nominal method.

Uhm guys. I think its useless to talk about how "large an economy" is. Simply because it is affected by the amount of people living in the country. For example Nigeria has the LARGEST population of any country in africa. If you want to put things in perspective, you have to take into account the population. So GDP per capita is better to measure the health of an economy. I mean, you cant just compare an economy on base of normal GDP. Morocco for example has 32 million people...Nigeria has 120 million people... nice comparison.. No need to feel attacked because of this statements....these are just facts. And we all see signs that a lot of counties in africa are doing better and better.

Still with all due respect. The main emerging countries (as considered by the West) are South Africa, Egypt and Morocco. They take into account almost 1/3 of the FDI inflow of Africa.. that says a lot.

If we take into account, the population..we get these numbers:

1. South Africa
2. Libya
3. Botswana
4. Tunesia
5. Algeria
6. Namibia
7. Gabon
8. Swaziland
9. Morocco
10. Egypt
11. Ghana
12. Lesotho
13. Mauritania
14. Cameroon
15. Sudan
16. Zimbabwe
17. Gambia
18. Uganda
19 Senegal
20. Togo
21. Rwanda
22. Chad
23. Nigeria
24. Mozambique
25. Congo.
26. Mali
27. Kenya
28. etcetera.

Still with all due respect. The main emerging countries (as considered by the West) are South Africa, Egypt and Morocco. They take into account almost 1/3 of the FDI inflow of Africa.. that says a lot.

Time to update your knowledge and visist the FT Nigeria thread!

I wonder why people are so enormously keen on keeping Nigeria down? Although the foreign exchange resserves are more than than those of SA and Egypt combined, most likely this figure will sky-rocket in the next deacde to come, one plain attack on a major oil field in the Middle East would suffice to bring in more cash for Nigeria. Nigeria is aiming to produce more than 4 million barrels of oil a day by 2010!!! Markets in SA and Egypt are comparatively saturated whereas in Nigeria they have not even truly started to boom!

Matthias no one is keeping Nigeria down. The fact as you just mentioned yet it Nigeria has not yet started to boom. When they do then they will be up there where they deserve. There's no need to take it so personally.

When Nigeria got her Freedom (you call it independence) from her colonial master, we asked for total freedom.The British left with all their bags and Baggages and no one of them remain Hence, Nigeria is Developing Nigeria alone and not with the help of any other western Nation. If reverse was the case, Nigeria would have been developed far more some popular countries in the west. If you look at it from another angle, devoid of sentiments, South Africa is being developed by the west. Fact, Nigeria have been mismanaged, but she can never be understimated no matter what the GDP or HDI blablablabla is in Africa. In Sickness, Nigeria can move and shake all its Neighbours. In Health, it can subdue The whole of Africa. Nigeria ia a sleeping Giant at the moment. Dont underestimate her Economic power and Political Influence. Nigeria is still the most Powerful Country in Africa, Take it or Leave it.

I'm sure many will disagree but whatever floats your boat :D

I'm sure many will disagree but whatever floats your boat :D

Whatever it is that you all have against Nigeria? The moment Thabo Mbeki starts saying No to his western imperialist and colonial masters, SA will go down to square one and be like Zimbabwe.

Still with all due respect. The main emerging countries (as considered by the West) are South Africa, Egypt and Morocco. They take into account almost 1/3 of the FDI inflow of Africa.. that says a lot.


.

if you are using FDI infows, how can nigeria end up at 26. egypt has a pretty hefty population also so i think the figures would have to be adjusted for them based on your statement about population.

i dont get why no one brings up population when talking about india or china? frankly, theoverall size of the economy and potential for growth is more important than per capita. at least as it concerns investors and geo politics. cape verde just wont be more important than nigeria, regardless of its per capita

Whatever it is that you all have against Nigeria? The moment Thabo Mbeki starts saying No to his western imperialist and colonial masters, SA will go down to square one and be like Zimbabwe.

But who is SA's western imperialist and colonial master? Netherlands? UK? Germany? France? I never really thought we had a colonial master. Maybe we do. I think the most important thing to realise is that Zimbabwe didn't go down because of the UK, it went down because the farms could not produce food. Anyone who chases his farmers whether they are black, white or green and does not have a workable plan will suffer the same consequences, especially in an economy where agriculture plays such an important role.

Besides, the price of food is a key component in the basket of items that drives a country's inflation rate. What is funny is that Zimbabwe's biggest trading partner was South Africa (i believe over 60% of its trade was with SA), so who is to blame for its problems? Mugabe would like us to believe its the UK. The simple fact is that had Mugabe had an army of well trained and experienced farmers to take over the farms, he could have easily continued to supply his people with enough food, while selling tobacco and other exportable products to neighbouring South Africa and earned the much needed foreign exchange to keep the economy going. As a matter of fact, the whole Africa could have been a big enough market for his agricultural sector which was far more developed and industrialized than most African countries.

Its simple economics, you mess up the supply side, then better be ready to handle the results, which will be sky high inflation. So if SA will go down, its going to do so because of the ANC and not some European nation.

if you are using FDI infows, how can nigeria end up at 26. egypt has a pretty hefty population also so i think the figures would have to be adjusted for them based on your statement about population.

i dont get why no one brings up population when talking about india or china? frankly, theoverall size of the economy and potential for growth is more important than per capita. at least as it concerns investors and geo politics. cape verde just wont be more important than nigeria, regardless of its per capita

The numbers werent FDI inflow, those were GDP per person. Im not bringing up India or China because they are not in Africa. Next to that, investors need some key things before they invest in a country. Infrastructure, potential buyers of their product and some other stuff. This means that a country, in order to be called a "country in development", or a so called emerging economy , must have a growing midclass with enough money to spend on luxury things.

Im not saying that Nigeria is bad, or retarded or whatsoever. Im just saying Nigeria isnt being called an emerging economy by the West. I can't help it either. Next to that, the GDP per capita is extremely low. I cant help that either. Those are facts.

I mean, Algeria isnt being called an emerging country either. It has to do with some key economic facts.

Im not saying that Nigeria isnt developing, or doesnt have a growing midclass.

lest i forget, the Chinese had always been ready to buy the large steel deposits in Zimbabwe and they didn't impose any sanction.

MSCI Index (very known in the world)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Developed_and_Emerging_markets.png/800px-Developed_and_Emerging_markets.png

Developed = pink
Emerging = blue

i dont get why no one brings up population when talking about india or china? frankly, theoverall size of the economy and potential for growth is more important than per capita. at least as it concerns investors and geo politics. cape verde just wont be more important than nigeria, regardless of its per capita

True but population can only go so far. Indonesia has 220 million people and they have relatively little global importance.

Just to put thing into perspective, Indonesia has almost double Nigeria's population and 4 times its gdp per capita. However Nigeria has huge oil reserves, so long term they probably have a greater engine for growth. It just shows you what an incredibly monopolistic (is that even a word? lol) world we live in.

MSCI Index (very known in the world)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Developed_and_Emerging_markets.png/800px-Developed_and_Emerging_markets.png

Developed = pink
Emerging = blue

That map surprises me, Morroco and Egypt ahead of Algeria and Tunisia? Their are also some eastern European countries that shouldn't be left out. Uruguay?

The Next Eleven (or N-11) is a short list of countries named by Goldman Sachs investment bank on December 12, 2005 as having promising outlooks for investment and future growth.

Goldman Sachs used macroeconomic stability, political maturity, openness of trade and investment policies and quality of education as criteria. The N-11 paper is a follow-up to its 2003 paper on the emerging "BRIC" economies (Brazil, Russia, India, China).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Next_11_Map.PNG

The N-11 group of countries

* Bangladesh (Developing country)
* Egypt (Newly industrialized country, ENP, COMESA, G-20 developing nations member)
* Indonesia (Newly industrialized country, G-20 industrial nations member)
* Iran (Developing country)
* Mexico (Newly industrialized country, NAFTA, G8+5, G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1994))
* Nigeria (Developing country, G-20 developing nations member)
* Pakistan (Developing country, G-20 developing nations member)
* Philippines (Newly industrialized country, G-20 developing nations member)
* South Korea (Developed country, Advanced economy (CIA and IMF), G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1996))
* Turkey (Newly industrialized country, Developed country (CIA), G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1961))
* Vietnam (Developing country)

That map surprises me, Morroco and Egypt ahead of Algeria and Tunisia? Their are also some eastern European countries that shouldn't be left out. Uruguay?

Well, they are clearly not accounted for as solo emerging markets. The MSCI is a globally very very known institution, so i dont even doubt these maps. Besides, Morocco and Egypt are politically and economically ahead of Tunesia and Algeria. Mainly because of privatization and the readyness to open the economy. Algeria has mostly public owned companies, just like Tunesia. :)


Local Politics vs. Global Economy
An emerging market economy must have to weigh local political and social factors as it attempts to open up its economy to the world. The people of an emerging market, who before were protected from the outside world, can often be distrustful of foreign investment. Emerging economies may also often have to deal with issues of national pride because citizens may be opposed to having foreigners owning parts of the local economy.

Moreover, opening up an emerging economy means that it will also be exposed to not only new work ethics and standards but also cultures as well: indeed the introduction and impact of, say, fast food and music videos to some local markets has been a by-product of foreign investment. Over the generations, this can change the very fabric of a society and if a population is not fully trusting of change, it may fight back hard to stop it.

The N-11 group of countries

* Bangladesh (Developing country)
* Egypt (Newly industrialized country, ENP, COMESA, G-20 developing nations member)
* Indonesia (Newly industrialized country, G-20 industrial nations member)
* Iran (Developing country)
* Mexico (Newly industrialized country, NAFTA, G8+5, G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1994))
* Nigeria (Developing country, G-20 developing nations member)
* Pakistan (Developing country, G-20 developing nations member)
* Philippines (Newly industrialized country, G-20 developing nations member)
* South Korea (Developed country, Advanced economy (CIA and IMF), G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1996))
* Turkey (Newly industrialized country, Developed country (CIA), G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1961))
* Vietnam (Developing country)

Theres a huge difference between your index and mine. Mine shows Emerging countries. Yours only shows developing countries. Developing isnt the same as emerging :). As you can see, South Africa, India, China, Brasil, Russia, Chile are all left out of your map... not very realistic huh ;)

Theres a huge difference between your index and mine. Mine shows Emerging countries. Yours only shows developing countries. Developing isnt the same as emerging :). As you can see, South Africa, India, China, Brasil, Russia, Chile are all left out of your map... not very realistic huh ;)

Well unlike you, I'm for all positive development in Africa, whether it's morroco, gabon or south africa. I was just trying to prove to you that nigeria is seen as a developing nation, nothing more, nothing less.

Theres a huge difference between your index and mine. Mine shows Emerging countries. Yours only shows developing countries. Developing isnt the same as emerging :). As you can see, South Africa, India, China, Brasil, Russia, Chile are all left out of your map... not very realistic huh ;)

That's where you are wrong. The BRIC nations Brazil, Russia, China and Brazil are purposely left out of his map because they have achieved great unimaginable economic growth, these 11 nations are the nations that have the MOST possibilities of achieving or even coming any where close to BRIC-like growth as it is known. Besides, not every country on the map is developing : South Korea is a fully developed country yet it appears on the map.

Therefore this map shows the future largest economies in the world. Meaning the largest economy in Africa in 25 years, if Goldman Sachs calculation is any where near accurate will be Nigeria.

However, as the title of this thread is Largest economies in Africa, i suggest we talk about the 5 largest at the moment, not the highest per Capita or most developed; the five largest OVERALL economies of Africa ( Not SSA)

Well unlike you, I'm for all positive development in Africa, whether it's morroco, gabon or south africa. I was just trying to prove to you that nigeria is seen as a developing nation, nothing more, nothing less.

Unlike me? Thats a retarded comment. Extremely retarded actually. I already told you that the MSCI index is the most known in the world. Im just stating facts here. Nigeria isnt seen as an emerging country, but it is seen as a developing country. I cant help it. I wish every country in africa was emerging, but thats not true. The map I displayed is not old or outdated so please live with it or dont come to these threads.

That's where you are wrong. The BRIC nations Brazil, Russia, China and Brazil are purposely left out of his map because they have achieved great unimaginable economic growth, these 11 nations are the nations that have the MOST possibilities of achieving or even coming any where close to BRIC-like growth as it is known. Besides, not every country on the map is developing : South Korea is a fully developed country yet it appears on the map.

Therefore this map shows the future largest economies in the world. Meaning the largest economy in Africa in 25 years, if Goldman Sachs calculation is any where near accurate will be Nigeria.

However, as the title of this thread is Largest economies in Africa, i suggest we talk about the 5 largest at the moment, not the highest per Capita or most developed; the five largest OVERALL economies of Africa ( Not SSA)

So you are saying that i am right. I mean read my comment, and then read yours. I was talking about emerging countries. So there is a big difference between my map and his. :ohno: I already stated before that the measurement of economies by "how large" they are, is kinda biased. You know why? Because all you have to do is have a huge population = huge market = huge PPP even if you have a crap economy. That means that no other country can make it to the map. If we talk about EMERGING markets, then every country has the same chance to be one. Because that doesnt look at population - size, but at more economical and politcal aspects of the society. Not to mention that the map i showed dates from June 2006, and the map he shows dates from December 2005.

Nigeria is a developing country, nobody can deny that. It just hasnt take the step yet to call it an Emerging market. Thats all i am saying. But hey, who knows...maybe in a year or 2 it will be called an emerging market!

Well, they are clearly not accounted for as solo emerging markets. The MSCI is a globally very very known institution, so i dont even doubt these maps. Besides, Morocco and Egypt are politically and economically ahead of Tunesia and Algeria. Mainly because of privatization and the readyness to open the economy. Algeria has mostly public owned companies, just like Tunesia. :)

Fair enough with regards to privatization, but in terms of overall human development, both Algeria and Tunisia are considerably better off.

The Next Eleven (or N-11) is a short list of countries named by Goldman Sachs investment bank on December 12, 2005 as having promising outlooks for investment and future growth.

Goldman Sachs used macroeconomic stability, political maturity, openness of trade and investment policies and quality of education as criteria. The N-11 paper is a follow-up to its 2003 paper on the emerging "BRIC" economies (Brazil, Russia, India, China).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Next_11_Map.PNG

The N-11 group of countries

* Bangladesh (Developing country)
* Egypt (Newly industrialized country, ENP, COMESA, G-20 developing nations member)
* Indonesia (Newly industrialized country, G-20 industrial nations member)
* Iran (Developing country)
* Mexico (Newly industrialized country, NAFTA, G8+5, G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1994))
* Nigeria (Developing country, G-20 developing nations member)
* Pakistan (Developing country, G-20 developing nations member)
* Philippines (Newly industrialized country, G-20 developing nations member)
* South Korea (Developed country, Advanced economy (CIA and IMF), G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1996))
* Turkey (Newly industrialized country, Developed country (CIA), G-20 industrial nations member, OECD member (1961))
* Vietnam (Developing country)

To be honest, I see nothing in that grouping. Honestly speaking all it shows is the world's largest (in terms of population) developing nations. Some in display are such polar opposites in terms of government and economic policies. Personally South Korea by all accounts is a developed nation with a dynamic economy. For the most part these nations have only two things in common, developing and large populations. That hardly warrants a grouping of the "emerging" future powers.

Fair enough with regards to privatization, but in terms of overall human development, both Algeria and Tunisia are considerably better off.

Yep thats certainly true. Algeria has also a lot of natural resources and is thus richer. Apperently HDI isnt that important when looking at emerging markets.

So you are saying that i am right. I mean read my comment, and then read yours. I was talking about emerging countries. So there is a big difference between my map and his. :ohno: I already stated before that the measurement of economies by "how large" they are, is kinda biased. You know why? Because all you have to do is have a huge population = huge market = huge PPP even if you have a crap economy. That means that no other country can make it to the map. If we talk about EMERGING markets, then every country has the same chance to be one. Because that doesnt look at population - size, but at more economical and politcal aspects of the society. Not to mention that the map i showed dates from June 2006, and the map he shows dates from December 2005.

Nigeria is a developing country, nobody can deny that. It just hasnt take the step yet to call it an Emerging market. Thats all i am saying. But hey, who knows...maybe in a year or 2 it will be called an emerging market!

But you see I'm not arguing with you what kind of market Nigeria is, what i am saying is it has most potential to be largest economy in Africa come 20 years. Besides that, are you telling me Republic of Congo has a better economy than China? Because according to per Capita Congo is 2,147 and China 2001.

To be honest, I see nothing in that grouping. Honestly speaking all it shows is the world's largest (in terms of population) developing nations. Some in display are such polar opposites in terms of government and economic policies. Personally South Korea by all accounts is a developed nation with a dynamic economy. For the most part these nations have only two things in common, developing and large populations. That hardly warrants a grouping of the "emerging" future powers.

That is where you are wrong again. Less than half of the map are considered developing countries.

Fair enough with regards to privatization, but in terms of overall human development, both Algeria and Tunisia are considerably better off.

That is true, but Morocco in only since 7 years busy with economic reforms, big projects, fighting poverty, construction, investing in new economic sectors etc. Tunisia is al more 20 years busy with reforms, economic reforms, fighting poverty etc.





IMF describes as "remarkable" economic progress in Morocco

Washington, Aug. 10 - The International Monetary Fund on Thursday described as "remarkable" the economic progress achieved by Morocco in the past years, stressing the growth of GDP, the strength of the financial sector and the recent improvement in the tax system.

http://meconsult.clients-lounge.de/join.php/newsletter/morocco%20biz%20upd/latest%20issue%20MBU





"GDP growth has moved onto a higher trajectory, inflation has been contained, foreign direct investment has increased, and poverty and unemployment have been reduced significantly," noted the Executive board of the International Monetary Fund upon concluding their the Article IV consultation with Morocco on the assessment its economic and financial situation.

"Macroeconomic conditions remain strong while average growth has reached 5.4 percent per year since 2001,that is 3.4 percentage points higher than in the 1990s," the IMF said in a press release. "This reflects the ongoing diversification of the non-agricultural sector, and its increased resilience to shocks and as a result, real per-capita income is on the rise and the unemployment rate has started to decline."

According to the IMF, bad crop years still impact the overall economic performance, as evidenced by the growth deceleration in 2007.

The fiscal deficit reached 2.1 percent of GDP in 2006, and is expected to remain below 3 percent in the medium term.

The international institution commended the authorities for the recent improvement in the fiscal position, which has played a key role in boosting the private sector confidence.

The IMF executive directors considered that reducing the public sector wage bill, reforming the oil and food subsidy system, and accelerating tax reform will be key to bring the government debt-to-GDP ratio.

Increased foreign direct investment have boosted reserves, to reach US $21Bn at end-May 2007, significantly higher than the stock of public external debt, underlined the IMF.

But you see I'm not arguing with you what kind of market Nigeria is, what i am saying is it has most potential to be largest economy in Africa come 20 years. Besides that, are you telling me Republic of Congo has a better economy than China? Because according to per Capita Congo is 2,147 and China 2001.

And i havent been saying that that isnt true. So why the aggressive remarks from the Nigerian side?

Besides per capita = China 7,800 Congo 1,400 according to CIA WFB
According to IMF = China 7,722 Congo 1,442

But you see I'm not arguing with you what kind of market Nigeria is, what i am saying is it has most potential to be largest economy in Africa come 20 years. Besides that, are you telling me Republic of Congo has a better economy than China? Because according to per Capita Congo is 2,147 and China 2001.

I think that Nigeria in the future is going to become the biggest economy of Africa. They have a lot of oil and gaz reserves and in a couple of years they gonna produce more oil, and the oil price will only get higher. And they are doing a lot of economic reforms and try to divers the economy.

I think Nigeria has everything to become one of the biggest economies of Africa etc.



Nigeria: ambitious plan 2020, Nigeria wants to belong around 2020 to the top 20-economies of the world. According to initiates this has been possibly seen the current foreign economic bounce and internal progress which has been so far achieved. The edge conditions are present in Nigeria to make it a top economy. The country is on eight of largest producer of oil. Also is rich of large reserves minerals which have not been developed until now. The level of education in Nigeria is one of the bests in Africa. If Nigeria will belong really to the top 20-economieën of the world, depends on the fact if the positive factors dominate.

http://www.evd.nl/info/zoeken/ShowBouwsteen.asp?bstnum=194486&location=/info/landen/land.asp?land=nia&showresults=true

The numbers werent FDI inflow, those were GDP per person. Im not bringing up India or China because they are not in Africa. Next to that, investors need some key things before they invest in a country. Infrastructure, potential buyers of their product and some other stuff. This means that a country, in order to be called a "country in development", or a so called emerging economy , must have a growing midclass with enough money to spend on luxury things.

Im not saying that Nigeria is bad, or retarded or whatsoever. Im just saying Nigeria isnt being called an emerging economy by the West. I can't help it either. Next to that, the GDP per capita is extremely low. I cant help that either. Those are facts.

I mean, Algeria isnt being called an emerging country either. It has to do with some key economic facts.

Im not saying that Nigeria isnt developing, or doesnt have a growing midclass.

well, i guess if the west doesnt say we are emerging, then we surely arent

MSCI EM (Emerging Markets) Europe, Middle East and Africa Index

The MSCI EM (Emerging Markets) Europe, Middle East and Africa Index is a free float-adjusted market capitalization index that is designed to measure equity market performance in the emerging market countries of Europe, the Middle East & Africa. As of June 2006, the MSCI EM EMEA Index consisted of the following 10 emerging market country indices: Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Turkey, Israel, Jordan,Egypt, Morocco and South Africa.

http://www.msci.com/equity/indexdesc.html

Emerging Markets

What is an emerging market?
An emerging-market economy was defined by the World Bank in 1981 as ‘an economy with
low-to-middle income’. Although other definitions have been put forward since, it is widely
accepted that, to be classified as an emerging-market economy, a nation must be moving
from a closed to an open market. That transformation is usually accompanied by rapid
economic growth and a fast pace of economic reform. Emerging markets constitute around
80% of the world’s population but just 20% of the world’s economic activity.
Emerging markets can vary widely in size and economic importance. Smaller nations, such as
Albania and the re-emerging global powerhouse that is China, are both said to be emerging.
In the long term, all emerging-market economies are looking to converge with the economic
and living standards of the developed world.
In recent years, interest in emerging markets has risen. In the move towards globalisation,
companies have sought to make use of the developing world’s strong rates of economic
growth, large markets, significant natural resources and lower labour costs. Countries such as
China, Brazil and India are widely expected to become major players on the global economic
stage over the coming decades.
Why are emerging markets suitable for investment?
Emerging-market nations tend to have higher rates of economic growth than the developed
world. Hence, the profits of companies operating there tend grow faster than in the
developed world, which means higher average returns to investors. As such countries are in a
state of transition, investments in emerging markets are more risky, but that is offset by their
higher potential rewards.
The opportunities for outside investment can be considerable, whether via capital markets
(buying shares and bonds) or directly into tangible assets (such as companies). For example,
a nation wanting to attract foreign investment will tend to enact reforms aimed at providing a
stable local currency, transparent codes of business and open markets. Usually backed by a
global organisation such as the World Bank or the International Monetary Fund (IMF), such
reforms are intended to foster confidence among the global investment community and
thereby attract high inflows of investment. Clearly, the first investors to place money into a
country’s asset markets would stand to gain the most from rapid economic growth and rising
investor confidence.
The demographic profile of emerging markets also makes them an attractive proposition for
long-term investment. Population growth in Asia and Latin America dwarfs that of developed
markets such as Europe and Japan. As emerging markets mature and economic benefits are
passed on to workers, their burgeoning middle classes become increasingly important
markets for global exports. Already, Mexico and China have become the US’s second-largest
and third-largest trading partners, and China is now Japan’s most important trading partner.

Emerging-market equities
Investment universe
Emerging-market equities can be split into five geographical blocks. Emerging Asia, which
makes up 55% of emerging equity markets, comprises Korea, Taiwan, China, India, Malaysia,
Thailand, Indonesia, the Philippines and Pakistan. Latin America (19%) includes Brazil,
Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Colombia and Venezuela. Africa (12%) is composed of South-Africa, Egypt and Morocco. Emerging Europe (10%) comprises Russia, Poland, Turkey,
Hungary and the Czech Republic. The Middle East (4%) is made up of Israel and Jordan

http://www.stockbrokers.barclays.co.uk/content/research/reports/investorguides/documents/Emerging%20Markets~2005-06-01%2008_33.pdf.

MSCI EM (Emerging Markets) Europe, Middle East and Africa Index

The MSCI EM (Emerging Markets) Europe, Middle East and Africa Index is a free float-adjusted market capitalization index that is designed to measure equity market performance in the emerging market countries of Europe, the Middle East & Africa. As of June 2006, the MSCI EM EMEA Index consisted of the following 10 emerging market country indices: Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Turkey, Israel, Jordan,Egypt, Morocco and South Africa.

http://www.msci.com/equity/indexdesc.html

But you have to realize that the definition of emerging markets as seen from an index such as the MSCI is going to look at emerging markets from the perspective of its equity market performance. A country like Nigeria whose equity and bond market is still very much at its infancy is likely not to feature in the MSCI index as it would be considered to be too small to afford investment portfolio managers enough liquidity. However using other measures Nigeria can be classified as an emerging market just as the Goldman Sachs report indicated in its Next 11 study.

It certainly is seen as an emerging market in the eyes of many global portfolio managers out there and developments in that country are being closely observed. Two friends of mine who work for a global investment fund based in London that manages assets of about $34 billion have been making endless trips to Nigeria and have already invested over $100 million in the financial services sector there. If you speak to them, you will realize that Nigeria is definitely seen as an emerging market for all practical purposes. It may take a few more years before the west wakes up to this, but Nigeria is rising and the smart guys are already queuing to cash in.

And i havent been saying that that isnt true. So why the aggressive remarks from the Nigerian side?

Besides per capita = China 7,800 Congo 1,400 according to CIA WFB
According to IMF = China 7,722 Congo 1,442

Just a small correction, China's gdp percapita according to the IMF is 8,778 and Congo's is 893 PPP.

The best way to compare nations in this regard is using the IMF's data mapper
http://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/index.php

Yep thats certainly true. Algeria has also a lot of natural resources and is thus richer. Apperently HDI isnt that important when looking at emerging markets.

True.

That is where you are wrong again. Less than half of the map are considered developing countries.

Eh? Other than South Korea those countries are generally large and poor. Countries like Turkey Mexico are developing but are more developed than those colored on the map, at the same time they have one of the smallest populations in the grouping.

Unlike me? Thats a retarded comment. Extremely retarded actually. I already told you that the MSCI index is the most known in the world. Im just stating facts here. Nigeria isnt seen as an emerging country, but it is seen as a developing country. I cant help it. I wish every country in africa was emerging, but thats not true. The map I displayed is not old or outdated so please live with it or dont come to these threads.

Okay :bow: Great Muttie :bow: I won't "come to these threads" anymore. :)

But you have to realize that the definition of emerging markets as seen from an index such as the MSCI is going to look at emerging markets from the perspective of its equity market performance. A country like Nigeria whose equity and bond market is still very much at its infancy is likely not to feature in the MSCI index as it would be considered to be too small to afford investment portfolio managers enough liquidity. However using other measures Nigeria can be classified as an emerging market just as the Goldman Sachs report indicated in its Next 11 study.

It certainly is seen as an emerging market in the eyes of many global portfolio managers out there and developments in that country are being closely observed. Two friends of mine who work for a global investment fund based in London that manages assets of about $34 billion have been making endless trips to Nigeria and have already invested over $100 million in the financial services sector there. If you speak to them, you will realize that Nigeria is definitely seen as an emerging market for all practical purposes. It may take a few more years before the west wakes up to this, but Nigeria is rising and the smart guys are already queuing to cash in.

Well, said, Kulani!

As far as private equity is concerned, Nigeria still falls through the net, as far as consumer power, foreign exchange resserves, macro-economic aspects in general, rising urban middle classes are concerned, density of million dollar people, Nigeria is certainly not behind any of the so-called "emerging markets" in Africa.

BTW, how many times did we have this debate on this site? 100000000 times?? and surprisngly people all come up with the same nagging stuff! It is so boring.... "my dig is bigger than yours and my girlfriends milks it thrice daily for me":toilet: So we could copy out what has been said in older threads and BASTA!?

Just a small correction, China's gdp percapita according to the IMF is 8,778 and Congo's is 893 PPP.

The best way to compare nations in this regard is using the IMF's data mapper
http://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/index.php

Im sorry but I was looking at really outdated stats. My point is the economy of a nation has nothing to do with it's population. In fact an economy poised ofr greatness has a large economy (Goldman Sachs N11 report). Any ways only 5 of those 11 nations are considered 'developing' by the IMF, which throws your comment about SK adn others being the only good picks in the list

Im sorry but I was looking at really outdated stats. My point is the economy of a nation has nothing to do with it's population. In fact an economy poised ofr greatness has a large economy (Goldman Sachs N11 report). Any ways only 5 of those 11 nations are considered 'developing' by the IMF, which throws your comment about SK adn others being the only good picks in the list

Would you mind reffering me to the 6 nations which are considered "developed"? Are you perhaps referring to "emerging"?

Would you mind reffering me to the 6 nations which are considered "developed"? Are you perhaps referring to "emerging"?

No I said only 'SK adn others are the good picks' By this of course I didn't mean 6 out of the 11 countries were developed, I meant only 5 of them were developing.

Emerging Markets

What is an emerging market?
An emerging-market economy was defined by the World Bank in 1981 as ‘an economy with
low-to-middle income’. Although other definitions have been put forward since, it is widely
accepted that, to be classified as an emerging-market economy, a nation must be moving
from a closed to an open market. That transformation is usually accompanied by rapid
economic growth and a fast pace of economic reform. Emerging markets constitute around
80% of the world’s population but just 20% of the world’s economic activity.
Emerging markets can vary widely in size and economic importance. Smaller nations, such as
Albania and the re-emerging global powerhouse that is China, are both said to be emerging.
In the long term, all emerging-market economies are looking to converge with the economic
and living standards of the developed world.
In recent years, interest in emerging markets has risen. In the move towards globalisation,
companies have sought to make use of the developing world’s strong rates of economic
growth, large markets, significant natural resources and lower labour costs. Countries such as
China, Brazil and India are widely expected to become major players on the global economic
stage over the coming decades.
Why are emerging markets suitable for investment?
Emerging-market nations tend to have higher rates of economic growth than the developed
world. Hence, the profits of companies operating there tend grow faster than in the
developed world, which means higher average returns to investors. As such countries are in a
state of transition, investments in emerging markets are more risky, but that is offset by their
higher potential rewards.
The opportunities for outside investment can be considerable, whether via capital markets
(buying shares and bonds) or directly into tangible assets (such as companies). For example,
a nation wanting to attract foreign investment will tend to enact reforms aimed at providing a
stable local currency, transparent codes of business and open markets. Usually backed by a
global organisation such as the World Bank or the International Monetary Fund (IMF), such
reforms are intended to foster confidence among the global investment community and
thereby attract high inflows of investment. Clearly, the first investors to place money into a
country’s asset markets would stand to gain the most from rapid economic growth and rising
investor confidence.
The demographic profile of emerging markets also makes them an attractive proposition for
long-term investment. Population growth in Asia and Latin America dwarfs that of developed
markets such as Europe and Japan. As emerging markets mature and economic benefits are
passed on to workers, their burgeoning middle classes become increasingly important
markets for global exports. Already, Mexico and China have become the US’s second-largest
and third-largest trading partners, and China is now Japan’s most important trading partner.

Emerging-market equities
Investment universe
Emerging-market equities can be split into five geographical blocks. Emerging Asia, which
makes up 55% of emerging equity markets, comprises Korea, Taiwan, China, India, Malaysia,
Thailand, Indonesia, the Philippines and Pakistan. Latin America (19%) includes Brazil,
Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Peru, Colombia and Venezuela. Africa (12%) is composed of South-Africa, Egypt and Morocco. Emerging Europe (10%) comprises Russia, Poland, Turkey,
Hungary and the Czech Republic. The Middle East (4%) is made up of Israel and Jordan

http://www.stockbrokers.barclays.co.uk/content/research/reports/investorguides/documents/Emerging%20Markets~2005-06-01%2008_33.pdf.

First and foremost, i would like to introduce myself. I am a young Nigerian by the name James. I like discussion forums like gamesbids, SSc(which am new) and others. I think that is enough for an introduction in an online forum.

But, I quite disagree with Muttie of over-aggrandizing of is country when comparing to Nigeria.

Emerging economy by defination falls into the group of all developing countries. What makes some seem more promising is the key character to increase both local and foreign investment with confidences on the future of the local economy, of which Nigeria is positively into in Africa. Nigeria is an emerging economy, even more promising than any other in the continent excepting in case of civil war or other unforeseable factors at the moment.

Banking sector is booming at alarmng rate-- South Africans are willing to invest, that's from africa. The Britons, americans, Chinese, Russians,etc are vying for presence because they know the abundant of what it takes to gain in an emerging economy like the Nigerian.

Just new! Don't underate me!

Nicely said...

Here's another ranking using GNP

#1 United States: 12,416,510,000,000 2005 ...
#2 Japan: 4,533,965,000,000 2005 ...
#3 Germany: 2,794,926,000,000 2005 ...
#4 China: 2,234,297,000,000 2005 ...
#5 United Kingdom: 2,198,789,000,000 2005 ...
#6 France: 2,126,630,000,000 2005 ...
#7 Italy: 1,762,519,000,000 2005 ...
#8 Spain: 1,124,640,000,000 2005 ...
#9 Canada: 1,113,810,000,000 2005 ...
#10 India: 805,713,800,000 2005 ...
#11 Brazil: 796,055,200,000 2005 ...
#12 Korea, South: 787,624,500,000 2005 ...
#13 Mexico: 768,437,500,000 2005 ...
#14 Russia: 763,720,000,000 2005 ...
#15 Australia: 732,499,200,000 2005 ...
#16 Netherlands: 624,202,200,000 2005 ...
#17 Belgium: 370,824,300,000 2005 ...
#18 Switzerland: 367,029,400,000 2005 ...
#19 Turkey: 362,501,700,000 2005 ...
#20 Sweden: 357,682,600,000 2005 ...
#21 Saudi Arabia: 309,778,500,000 2005 ...
#22 Austria: 306,072,900,000 2005 ...
#23 Poland: 303,228,600,000 2005 ...
#24 Norway: 295,512,800,000 2005 ...
#25 Indonesia: 287,216,800,000 2005 ...
#26 Denmark: 258,714,400,000 2005 ...
#27 South Africa: 239,543,200,000 2005 ...
#28 Greece: 225,206,300,000 2005 ...
#29 Ireland: 201,816,900,000 2005 ...
#30 Finland: 193,160,100,000 2005 ...
#31 Iran: 189,783,800,000 2005 ...
#32 Portugal: 183,304,800,000 2005 ...
#33 Argentina: 183,193,400,000 2005 ...
#34 Hong Kong: 177,702,600,000 2005 ...
#35 Thailand: 176,633,600,000 2005 ...
#36 Venezuela: 140,191,900,000 2005 ...
#37 Malaysia: 130,326,100,000 2005 ...
#38 United Arab Emirates: 129,701,600,000 2005 ...
#39 Czech Republic: 124,364,500,000 2005 ...
#40 Israel: 123,433,600,000 2005 ...
#41 Colombia: 122,308,600,000 2005 ...
#42 Singapore: 116,763,700,000 2005 ...
#43 Chile: 115,247,800,000 2005 ...
#44 Pakistan: 110,732,100,000 2005 ...
#45 New Zealand: 109,291,400,000 2005 ...
#46 Hungary: 109,239,000,000 2005 ...
#47 Algeria: 102,255,900,000 2005 ...
#48 Philippines: 99,029,360,000 2005 ...
#49 Nigeria: 98,950,500,000 2005 ...
#50 Romania: 98,565,380,000 2005 ...
#51 Egypt: 89,369,290,000 2005 ...
#52 Ukraine: 82,876,290,000 2005 ...
#53 Kuwait: 80,780,820,000 2005 ...
#54 Peru: 79,378,780,000 2005 ...
#55 Puerto Rico: 67,897,100,000 2001 ...
#56 Bangladesh: 60,033,520,000 2005 ...
#57 Kazakhstan: 57,123,670,000 2005 ...
#58 Vietnam: 52,408,340,000 2005 ...
#59 Morocco: 51,620,980,000 2005 ...
#60 Slovakia: 46,411,960,000 2005 ...
#61 Qatar: 42,462,640,000 2005 ...
#62 Libya: 38,756,110,000 2005 ...
#63 Croatia: 38,505,550,000 2005 ...
#64 Ecuador: 36,488,920,000 2005 ...
#65 Luxembourg: 36,468,720,000 2005 ...
#66 Slovenia: 34,353,700,000 2005 ...
#67 Angola: 32,810,670,000 2005 ...
#68 Guatemala: 31,716,790,000 2005 ...
#69 Belarus: 29,565,560,000 2005 ...
#70 Dominican Republic: 29,501,900,000 2005 ...
#71 Tunisia: 28,683,350,000 2005 ...
#72 Sudan: 27,542,190,000 2005 ...
#73 Bulgaria: 26,648,140,000 2005 ...
#74 Syria: 26,320,020,000 2005 ...
#75 Serbia and Montenegro: 26,215,220,000 2005 ...
#76 Lithuania: 25,624,780,000 2005 ...
#77 Oman: 24,283,990,000 2004 ...
#78 Sri Lanka: 23,478,920,000 2005 ...
#79 Lebanon: 21,944,280,000 2005 ...
#80 Costa Rica: 20,020,780,000 2005 ...
#81 Kenya: 18,730,380,000 2005 ...
#82 El Salvador: 16,974,000,000 2005 ...
#83 Cameroon: 16,874,610,000 2005 ...
#84 Uruguay: 16,790,930,000 2005 ...
#85 Côte d'Ivoire: 16,344,320,000 2005 ...
#86 Latvia: 15,826,160,000 2005 ...
#87 Iceland: 15,813,890,000 2005 ...
#88 Panama: 15,466,700,000 2005 ...
#89 Cyprus: 15,418,350,000 2004 ...
#90 Yemen: 15,065,510,000 2005 ...
#91 Trinidad and Tobago: 14,358,100,000 2005 ...
#92 Uzbekistan: 13,950,900,000 2005 ...
#93 Estonia: 13,101,240,000 2005 ...
#94 Bahrain: 12,914,440,000 2005 ...
#95 Jordan: 12,711,630,000 2005 ...
#96 Iraq: 12,602,490,000 2003 ...
#97 Azerbaijan: 12,561,280,000 2005 ...
#98 Tanzania: 12,111,040,000 2005 ...
#99 Ethiopia: 11,174,290,000 2005 ...
#100 Ghana: 10,720,350,000 2005 ...
#101 Botswana: 10,317,480,000 2005 ...
#102 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 9,948,769,000 2005 ...
#103 Jamaica: 9,574,133,000 2005 ...
#104 Bolivia: 9,333,579,000 2005 ...
#105 Uganda: 8,724,478,000 2005 ...
#106 Albania: 8,380,315,000 2005 ...
#107 Honduras: 8,290,948,000 2005 ...
#108 Senegal: 8,238,430,000 2005 ...
#109 Turkmenistan: 8,066,787,000 2005 ...
#110 Gabon: 8,055,465,000 2005 ...
#111 Nepal: 7,390,748,000 2005 ...
#112 Paraguay: 7,327,690,000 2005 ...
#113 Afghanistan: 7,308,498,000 2005 ...
#114 Zambia: 7,270,075,000 2005 ...
#115 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 7,102,644,000 2005 ...
#116 Macau: 6,657,669,000 2002 ...
#117 Mozambique: 6,636,347,000 2005 ...
#118 Brunei: 6,399,988,000 2005 ...
#119 Georgia: 6,394,858,000 2005 ...
#120 Mauritius: 6,289,630,000 2005 ...
#121 Cambodia: 6,187,498,000 2005 ...
#122 Namibia: 6,126,181,000 2005 ...
#123 Macedonia, Republic of: 5,766,179,000 2005 ...
#124 Malta: 5,569,653,000 2005 ...
#125 Bahamas, The: 5,502,000,000 2003 ...
#126 Chad: 5,468,701,000 2005 ...
#127 Mali: 5,305,319,000 2005 ...
#128 Burkina Faso: 5,171,203,000 2005 ...
#129 Congo, Republic of the: 5,090,736,000 2005 ...
#130 Madagascar: 5,039,951,000 2005 ...
#131 Papua New Guinea: 4,945,034,000 2005 ...
#132 Nicaragua: 4,911,046,000 2005 ...
#133 Armenia: 4,902,779,000 2005 ...
#134 Benin: 4,287,464,000 2005 ...
#135 Haiti: 4,268,152,000 2005 ...
#136 French Polynesia: 3,447,543,000 2000 ...
#137 Niger: 3,405,135,000 2005 ...
#138 Zimbabwe: 3,372,496,000 2005 ...
#139 Guinea: 3,289,281,000 2005 ...
#140 Equatorial Guinea: 3,230,528,000 2005 ...
#141 Barbados: 3,090,538,000 2005 ...
#142 Moldova: 2,916,994,000 2005 ...
#143 Laos: 2,875,204,000 2005 ...
#144 Swaziland: 2,730,501,000 2005 ...
#145 Fiji: 2,728,918,000 2005 ...
#146 New Caledonia: 2,682,347,000 2000 ...
#147 Kyrgyzstan: 2,440,771,000 2005 ...
#148 Tajikistan: 2,312,031,000 2005 ...
#149 Man, Isle of: 2,264,913,000 2003 ...
#150 Bermuda: 2,252,641,000 1997 ...
#151 Togo: 2,202,788,000 2005 ...
#152 Rwanda: 2,153,494,000 2005 ...
#153 Malawi: 2,072,071,000 2005 ...
#154 Virgin Islands: 1,996,000,000 1993 ...
#155 Aruba: 1,911,173,000 2002 ...
#156 Mongolia: 1,880,449,000 2005 ...
#157 Mauritania: 1,850,343,000 2005 ...
#158 Lesotho: 1,450,333,000 2005 ...
#159 Central African Republic: 1,369,183,000 2005 ...
#160 Suriname: 1,341,638,000 2005 ...
#161 Greenland: 1,252,457,000 1996 ...
#162 Sierra Leone: 1,192,621,000 2005 ...
#163 Netherlands Antilles: 1,172,111,000 1985 ...
#164 Belize: 1,104,900,000 2005 ...
#165 Cayman Islands: 1,012,444,000 1996 ...
#166 Cape Verde: 983,094,600 2005 ...
#167 Eritrea: 969,871,000 2005 ...
#168 Somalia: 917,044,200 1990 ...
#169 San Marino: 879,900,700 2002 ...
#170 Antigua and Barbuda: 875,751,400 2005 ...
#171 Bhutan: 843,737,100 2005 ...
#172 Saint Lucia: 825,185,200 2005 ...
#173 Burundi: 799,837,400 2005 ...
#174 Guyana: 786,912,600 2005 ...
#175 Maldives: 765,581,600 2005 ...
#176 Djibouti: 708,773,900 2005 ...
#177 Seychelles: 693,636,400 2005 ...
#178 Liberia: 548,400,000 2005 ...
#179 Grenada: 474,000,000 2005 ...
#180 Gambia, The: 461,242,300 2005 ...
#181 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 453,000,000 2005 ...
#182 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 430,000,000 2005 ...
#183 Samoa: 403,921,800 2005 ...
#184 Comoros: 387,037,200 2005 ...
#185 East Timor: 349,000,000 2005 ...
#186 Vanuatu: 340,516,500 2005 ...
#187 Guinea-Bissau: 301,111,000 2005 ...
#188 Solomon Islands: 298,000,000 2005 ...
#189 Dominica: 283,564,800 2005 ...
#190 Micronesia, Federated States of: 231,700,000 2005 ...
#191 Tonga: 213,853,300 2005 ...
#192 Palau: 144,665,000 2005 ...
#193 Marshall Islands: 144,357,000 2005 ...
#194 Kiribati: 76,437,110 2005 ...
#195 São Tomé and Príncipe: 70,573,780 2005 ...

First and foremost, i would like to introduce myself. I am a young Nigerian by the name James. I like discussion forums like gamesbids, SSc(which am new) and others. I think that is enough for an introduction in an online forum.

But, I quite disagree with Muttie of over-aggrandizing of is country when comparing to Nigeria.

Emerging economy by defination falls into the group of all developing countries. What makes some seem more promising is the key character to increase both local and foreign investment with confidences on the future of the local economy, of which Nigeria is positively into in Africa. Nigeria is an emerging economy, even more promising than any other in the continent excepting in case of civil war or other unforeseable factors at the moment.

Banking sector is booming at alarmng rate-- South Africans are willing to invest, that's from africa. The Britons, americans, Chinese, Russians,etc are vying for presence because they know the abundant of what it takes to gain in an emerging economy like the Nigerian.

Just new! Don't underate me!

I like this young man:cheers:

http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=23641
http://www.marbellaguide.com/en/123EN.news.resultsinf/newsid-2564%20/index.htm



Tangier the new Dubai

WEBWIRE – Tuesday, November 14, 2006



15.11.06 Marbella, Spain.

According to the experts, Tangier is the new land of golden opportunity for those seeking to invest in property overseas. King Mohamed VI and a consortium of private companies have taken a leaf out of Dubai’s book and joined forces to capitalise on Morocco’s strategic position between the European and African continents. By 2010 they will have transformed Tangier on Morocco’s northern peninsula into one the most important Free Enterprise Zones in the world and the main trade gateway to more than 600 million people across Europe, West Africa, North Africa as well as North America.

As Morten Skjelborg of Moroccan property specialists Direct Morocco explains, “Morocco is a country that’s changing fast. Tangier is the epitome of this change. The King and the team behind Dubai’s rise to prominence have secured one billion Euros of private investment to develop the region into a modern, forward-thinking place with the kind of high-tech infrastructure that goes with it. If you’re looking to buy a foreign property as either a sound investment or as a holiday retreat, there simply is no better place than Tangier. And now is absolutely the time to buy before prices soar.”

The Tangier Exportation Free Zone is a protected free trade environment where companies from around the world can operate tax-free. It’s literally a massive project covering 345 hectares of land. It incorporates a vast container port at the junction of the biggest maritime routes in the world with the capacity to handle both cargo and passenger ships; the expansion and improvement of Tangiers international airport, road and rail networks; the complete renovation of Tangier’s historic old port which will become a pleasure port for yachts and cruisesliners; the development of six new world class holiday resorts with four and five star hotels, holiday villages, nature trails and cultural attraction sites including a Kasbah, restaurants and shopping centres in the coastal Ghandouri tourism area; plus of course the controlled construction of quality apartments, townhouses and villas to house the increase of both workers and tourists coming to the region. This mammoth undertaking is estimated to create 145,000 jobs by the year 2020.

Founded in the fourth century B.C. by the Phoenicians, Tangier is the oldest city in Morocco and is considered by the Moroccan people to be their doorway to the world. At just 15 km. from the tip of southern Spain it is unequivocally a Mediterranean city, not just for its geographical location, but also its rich history, tradition and cultural influences. Like its near neighbour Spain’s Costa del Sol, it enjoys mild temperatures in the winter and non-stop sunshine in summer. At just three hours flying time from the UK, it’s already becoming an ideal destination for both weekend breaks or longer stays and attracts a large number of tourists year round. As such, Low-cost airlines such as Easyjet have obtained permission to begin flying direct from airports in the UK. The Spanish and Moroccan governments have also commissioned preliminary engineering studies to build a rail tunnel under the Straits of Gibraltar linking the two countries.

Construction of the Tangier Exportation Free Zone is already well underway and the majority of the work is expected to be complete by 2010. “The Moroccan authorities have put strict environmentally sensitive measures in place to prevent the kind of over supply of property we have seen in other developing areas,” Direct Morocco’s Morten Skjelborg points out. “It really does represent a fantastic opportunity for investment in overseas property. At the moment, you can still buy a beachfront apartment for as little as sixty thousand pounds.”

http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=23641

http://www.medibtikar.eu/spip.php?breve302

There are things which really must be considered in emerging economies. These things are questions as factors which make them emerging economies.They are, are the markets over saturated or not? Is there high gain from investing in the economy? Though, more risky to invest in emerging economies than the already advanced ones. How much working population (skill and unskilled labours) available? How cheap is the labour market? etc.

For all these exist in emerging economies at a very high magnitude to attract foreign investors and to make gain, investors are the basic core of it growth to emerge. Example are in the case of india, China, Brazil, Turkey and Phillipine, which are the five most notable ones. Nigeria, Egypt, Algeria, Argentina, Parkistan, Tunisia etc are also emerging economies. Some have more portfolio more than some but the characteristics are thesame.The magnitude of investments in China cannot be compared to those of Turkey and that doesn't mean Turkey is not an emerging economy.

From the emerging big player China to the less resourced Tunisia have those characteristics which made them to be called emerging economies.

Nigeria can not be ignored from the list of emerging economies, that's the fact. It's has more than enough to fit into the group so easily.

There are things which really must be considered in emerging economies. These things are questions as factors which make them emerging economies.They are, are the markets over saturated or not? Is there high gain from investing in the economy? Though, more risky to invest in emerging economies than the already advanced ones. How much working population (skill and unskilled labours) available? How cheap is the labour market? etc.

For all these exist in emerging economies at a very high magnitude to attract foreign investors and to make gain, investors are the basic core of it growth to emerge. Example are in the case of india, China, Brazil, Turkey and Phillipine, which are the five most notable ones. Nigeria, Egypt, Algeria, Argentina, Parkistan, Tunisia etc are also emerging economies. Some have more portfolio more than some but the characteristics are thesame.The magnitude of investments in China cannot be compared to those of Turkey and that doesn't mean Turkey is not an emerging economy.

From the emerging big player China to the less resourced Tunisia have those characteristics which made them to be called emerging economies.

Nigeria can not be ignored from the list of emerging economies, that's the fact. It's has more than enough to fit into the group so easily.

You make some good points, but here's my question to you; how much does size play a role in you grouping Nigeria as an "emerging market"? Hypothetically if it had 1/4 the population would it even have a blip in the global radar? My only objection to your unquestionable assertion that Nigeria is indeed an emerging nation is the fact that it is still oil driven, very poor and many internal issues that directly affect its economic life line, oil. Now Nigeria isn't alone in this believe me every big developing country has a heap of issues.

I'm interested in what you think.

[]

Some ash*le has hacked my name an is placing racist reaction on the forum!!!!

This are not my reactions!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fuck you dirty N"iggers from black Africa


DID YOU JUST SAY THAT?!:ohno:

No racism please, it is really a shameful, for an African to insult an African because the color of his skin, we are North African suffer the same problem from Europeans.

fuck you dirty N"iggers from black Africa

MISTER79, I WANT YOU TO ANSWER YES OR NO BEFORE I RESPOND TO YOU. PROBABLY YOU WERE UNCONSCIOUS WHEN YOU SAID THIS AND YOU WILL BE FORGIVEN IF YOU SAID YOU REALLY DIDN`T MEAN TO SAY THIS

Someone has hacked my name!!!!!

The reaction above is not mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MISTER79, I WANT YOU TO ANSWER YES OR NO BEFORE I RESPOND TO YOU. PROBABLY YOU WERE UNCONSCIOUS WHEN YOU SAID THIS AND YOU WILL BE FORGIVEN IF YOU SAID YOU REALLY DIDN`T MEAN TO SAY THIS

I have been hacked....

That reactions is not mine. He is placing racist reaction n the forum!!!!!

I have send email to the modertaors!!!!!

Someone has hacked me !!!!

Those reactions are not mine.

You make some good points, but here's my question to you; how much does size play a role in you grouping Nigeria as an "emerging market"? Hypothetically if it had 1/4 the population would it even have a blip in the global radar? My only objection to your unquestionable assertion that Nigeria is indeed an emerging nation is the fact that it is still oil driven, very poor and many internal issues that directly affect its economic life line, oil. Now Nigeria isn't alone in this believe me every big developing country has a heap of issues.

I'm interested in what you think.

Yes population counts - meaning there is abundant of working population and a consuming population also. Investors which are the key players in an emerging economy look to how the price of labour force corrolate with production. Examples are in the case of China and india.On the cosumer side, the mobile telecommunication is a testimony to how fissile the Nigeria consumer's economy could be like because of the population.Still climbing to beat South africa both in subscribers(defeated SA already) and in revenue just with time.

Oil is the basic factor of the Nigeria economy as largest revenue earning. But, I don't think that is area at the moment to use as a measure on the emergence of the Nigeria economy. Other areas like the mining, agriculture, banking, real estates sectors, etc are yet untapped made positively to know that there are avenues for invetsors to invest and to gain also. They are still very much untouched.There the strenght is. This is also a factor why Nigeria as a nation has a promising emerging economy.

Nigeria is poor indeed but not deem poor or doomed to be poor. the basic reason of Nigerians being poor is corruption( mainly was the leadership and followed by the wrong images from this root cause). The multi-billion dollars which are straked as personal money in foreign banks by our leaders was a red indicator for a less or no portfolio at all for Nigeria thereby sending wrong messages to investors who would want to invest.

Every developing nation faces many or all of these factors which determined its destiny. But, I beleive Nigeria has come to realize that there's need for an urgence to utilize the opportunity which the natural resources have given it and diversified the economy as quickly as possible for the benefit of the populace. Still, the ordinary man on the Nigerian streets are not much affected yet - note that emerging economy is always like that because it works with time for investors to comeg to understand how to invest and understand the local economy. The government must target the local economy, that's where the poser is in emerging economy.

Yes population counts - meaning there is abundant of working population and a consuming population also. Investors which are the key players in an emerging economy look to how the price of labour force corrolate with production. Examples are in the case of China and india.On the cosumer side, the mobile telecommunication is a testimony to how fissile the Nigeria consumer's economy could be like because of the population.Still climbing to beat South africa both in subscribers(defeated SA already) and in revenue just with time.

Oil is the basic factor of the Nigeria economy as largest revenue earning. But, I don't think that is area at the moment to use as a measure on the emergence of the Nigeria economy. Other areas like the mining, agriculture, banking, real estates sectors, etc are yet untapped made positively to know that there are avenues for invetsors to invest and to gain also. They are still very much untouched.There the strenght is. This is also a factor why Nigeria as a nation has a promising emerging economy.

Nigeria is poor indeed but not deem poor or doomed to be poor. the basic reason of Nigerians being poor is corruption( mainly was the leadership and followed by the wrong images from this root cause). The multi-billion dollars which are straked as personal money in foreign banks by our leaders was a red indicator for a less or no portfolio at all for Nigeria thereby sending wrong messages to investors who would want to invest.

Every developing nation faces many or all of these factors which determined its destiny. But, I beleive Nigeria has come to realize that there's need for an urgence to utilize the opportunity which the natural resources have given it and diversified the economy as quickly as possible for the benefit of the populace. Still, the ordinary man on the Nigerian streets are not much affected yet - note that emerging economy is always like that because it works with time for investors to comeg to understand how to invest and understand the local economy. The government must target the local economy, that's where the poser is in emerging economy.

I know population counts, hence why China is more important in the world than Finland. However my point is the amount of consumers and effective demand probably has a relatively high absolute number but proportionally to other smaller developing countries, theirs a stronger purchasing power and consumer demand. Now Nigeria has the advantage that it has alot more room for growth than most any other developing nation. But you have to create the wealth and spread it around to fill the void. Their is a line between potential and reality/progress.

It goes back to the point in having a low base and giving room for growth. The Oil sector still is the engine for economic growth and revenue it makes the country tick. I think that the emergence of other industries will emerge but the question I still ask is whether it will be a sizeable sector of the Nigerian economy.

I agree, just looking at the Niger Delta accumulates the most wealth than any other region in the country yet one of the poorest. The issue in my mind lies more with the state governors than the actual federal government.

My only frustration is that with all that oil revenue surely their are enough reserves to finance social programs. Such as providing social security, food aid, schooling and other necessities for the society to develop. Other wise you'll have any even bigger increase in the inequality with those in wealthier positions getting all the profits. Their needs to be a restructuring where those in lower income groups can rise up, this doesn't equate welfare programs and how citizens become dependent on the state. Brazil's Bolsa Familia is a good example of what can be done.

There are things which really must be considered in emerging economies. These things are questions as factors which make them emerging economies.They are, are the markets over saturated or not? Is there high gain from investing in the economy? Though, more risky to invest in emerging economies than the already advanced ones. How much working population (skill and unskilled labours) available? How cheap is the labour market? etc.

For all these exist in emerging economies at a very high magnitude to attract foreign investors and to make gain, investors are the basic core of it growth to emerge. Example are in the case of india, China, Brazil, Turkey and Phillipine, which are the five most notable ones. Nigeria, Egypt, Algeria, Argentina, Parkistan, Tunisia etc are also emerging economies. Some have more portfolio more than some but the characteristics are thesame.The magnitude of investments in China cannot be compared to those of Turkey and that doesn't mean Turkey is not an emerging economy.

From the emerging big player China to the less resourced Tunisia have those characteristics which made them to be called emerging economies.

Nigeria can not be ignored from the list of emerging economies, that's the fact. It's has more than enough to fit into the group so easily.


I don't agree with you. If an economy is only depending on oil and gaz and it makes billions of dollars because of the oil, you are not seen as an emerging market. Because it is good for the macro economy but not for the micro economy and the economy is too independent of oil prices, and oil will not last forever..

There are a lot of countries who have a major growing economy, but are not seen as emerging markets. Because the country is not atractive for foreign investors or the middle class is not growing too fast.

An emerging market country is a country with a growing micro en macro economy, growing FDI investment, good investment climate, growing middle class, divers economy etc..

Yes population counts - meaning there is abundant of working population and a consuming population also. Investors which are the key players in an emerging economy look to how the price of labour force corrolate with production. Examples are in the case of China and india.On the cosumer side, the mobile telecommunication is a testimony to how fissile the Nigeria consumer's economy could be like because of the population.Still climbing to beat South africa both in subscribers(defeated SA already) and in revenue just with time.

Oil is the basic factor of the Nigeria economy as largest revenue earning. But, I don't think that is area at the moment to use as a measure on the emergence of the Nigeria economy. Other areas like the mining, agriculture, banking, real estates sectors, etc are yet untapped made positively to know that there are avenues for invetsors to invest and to gain also. They are still very much untouched.There the strenght is. This is also a factor why Nigeria as a nation has a promising emerging economy.

Nigeria is poor indeed but not deem poor or doomed to be poor. the basic reason of Nigerians being poor is corruption( mainly was the leadership and followed by the wrong images from this root cause). The multi-billion dollars which are straked as personal money in foreign banks by our leaders was a red indicator for a less or no portfolio at all for Nigeria thereby sending wrong messages to investors who would want to invest.

Every developing nation faces many or all of these factors which determined its destiny. But, I beleive Nigeria has come to realize that there's need for an urgence to utilize the opportunity which the natural resources have given it and diversified the economy as quickly as possible for the benefit of the populace. Still, the ordinary man on the Nigerian streets are not much affected yet - note that emerging economy is always like that because it works with time for investors to comeg to understand how to invest and understand the local economy. The government must target the local economy, that's where the poser is in emerging economy.



Nigeria has everything to become a major economy. They have the chicken with the golden eggs. It is good that they now try to divers the economy and invest in other sectors. That can give the country a stabile economic boost.



No one believed more then 10 years ago that Vietnam could be so emerging. They had a lot of poverty. But since they had economic reforms, opening the economy, the poverty has dramaticaly increased. The same is for Indonesia..

Guys you must read the artical in The NEWSWEEK, its about Chinese influence in Africa.

Guys you must read the artical in The NEWSWEEK, its about Chinese influence in Africa.

That's the exodus of some African countries seeing the blinking light of emerging economy at this time.

Beleive me not in the case of Nigeria. Chinese were not the first to let us understand how to diversify our economy. If you look closely to the areas been diversified in Nigeria are non-chinese involved. And, don't also get it wrong chinese have being investing in Nigeria for long. The simple truth is that Nigeria has taken a bold step by paying its debt.That was a good indicator that the nation can afford investment. The goverment embraced democracy, that is another indicator. The economy as a whole has been brought to table when the mobile telecomunication posted over 2 billions dollars revenue on it first years. That is amazing in a poor economy! some investors start to see the financial sector as a place of investment - some banks merged with other international ones and some merged with local ones to increase revenue base. The economy start to run on the other way from its usual regulated.

Oil cannot accommodate the populace and it's alone what makes Nigeria an emerging economy but the ability of Nigeria to start investing and be invested on in other areas like the industries - steel, aluminium smelting industries, electronics( mobilephones, televisions, radios, computers, etc), cement, Agriculture( even those evaquated from Zimbabwe are investing in agriculture, though, very little part of the Nigeria Agriculture). if any nation at the moment has more industries than Nigeria in africa, it should be South Africa and Egypt.


Oil or no oil dependence as overemphasized by Mister 79 forgeting that it can be used as way of attracting investors. Atleast, a country trying to have emerging economy or has emerged must have to attract investors through some means and I guess oil is just Nigeria most attractive means.

I barely know you Mister 79 but I can tell that you are a hypercritical or hypocritical human being seeing nothing will change about Africa. Your aguement is so negative that it's misleading about understanding emergng economy characteristics.

Oil cannot accommodate the populace and it's alone what makes Nigeria an emerging economy but the ability of Nigeria to start investing and be invested on in other areas like the industries - steel, aluminium smelting industries, electronics( mobilephones, televisions, radios, computers, etc), cement, Agriculture( even those evaquated from Zimbabwe are investing in agriculture, though, very little part of the Nigeria Agriculture). if any nation at the moment has more industries than Nigeria in africa, it should be South Africa and Egypt.




The thing is Nigeria is in a whole other level when it comes to actual population size. Egypt with 70 million is only a little over half of the entire Nigerian population. You should have the largest economy on the continent and amongst the world's largest, you should be one of the wealthiest with the incredible amount of oil. My point here is that for its size, Nigeria is totally underrepresented in its role of the global economy. Of course with its huge size in absolute terms it will have more industries than most countries in Africa. That said it doesn't make Nigeria industrialized. I'm also a bit skeptical in saying that Nigeria has more industries than say Morocco. I'm not sure either way.

The thing is Nigeria is in a whole other level when it comes to actual population size. Egypt with 70 million is only a little over half of the entire Nigerian population. You should have the largest economy on the continent and amongst the world's largest, you should be one of the wealthiest with the incredible amount of oil. My point here is that for its size, Nigeria is totally underrepresented in its role of the global economy. Of course with its huge size in absolute terms it will have more industries than most countries in Africa. That said it doesn't make Nigeria industrialized. I'm also a bit skeptical in saying that Nigeria has more industries than say Morocco. I'm not sure either way.

I think Nigeria has a huge potential, but until now it hasn't delivered and I think until they do, people are gonna remain skeptical also and I thing the huge population is actually an impediment. It would be a lot easier to turn the corners if Nigeria's population were around 70mil imho. I am sure changes are taking place and if the leadership continue to show determination maybe some day Nigeria it might become Africa's economic powerhouse.

The thing is Nigeria is in a whole other level when it comes to actual population size. Egypt with 70 million is only a little over half of the entire Nigerian population. You should have the largest economy on the continent and amongst the world's largest, you should be one of the wealthiest with the incredible amount of oil. My point here is that for its size, Nigeria is totally underrepresented in its role of the global economy. Of course with its huge size in absolute terms it will have more industries than most countries in Africa. That said it doesn't make Nigeria industrialized. I'm also a bit skeptical in saying that Nigeria has more industries than say Morocco. I'm not sure either way.

At the moment the economy base of Nigeria is getting ahead of Egypt don't be deceived. And, don't froget that the past (like corruption, dictatorship,etc) as a whole has cost Nigeria so much harm that things will take some years to materialize.

Yes,size is important but Nigeria has not utilize it well not until now it has beginning to see how it can play a very good role in the economy.

Am not saying here that Nigeria is industrialized. Infact, no any nation in africa is industrialized maybe South Africa should get close when less industrialization is considered.

Nigeria has more industries than Morocco. Morocco is largely textile, Agricultural, cement(limestone), food processing, and most of other numbers of industries are located in the city of casablanca. If you are skeptical of that you need to see to the industrial base of Morocco and compare it from city to city in number with those of Nigeria.

Check the Boston Group's annual ranking of the 100 most competetive companies in the developing world. I don't think a single Nigerian company is included. Again this doesn't mean Nigeria isn't improving, it actually is but its still some ways from the big boys.

Here's the report. http://www.bcg.com/publications/files/New_Global_Challengers_May06.pdf

That's the exodus of some African countries seeing the blinking light of emerging economy at this time.

Beleive me not in the case of Nigeria. Chinese were not the first to let us understand how to diversify our economy. If you look closely to the areas been diversified in Nigeria are non-chinese involved. And, don't also get it wrong chinese have being investing in Nigeria for long. The simple truth is that Nigeria has taken a bold step by paying its debt.That was a good indicator that the nation can afford investment. The goverment embraced democracy, that is another indicator. The economy as a whole has been brought to table when the mobile telecomunication posted over 2 billions dollars revenue on it first years. That is amazing in a poor economy! some investors start to see the financial sector as a place of investment - some banks merged with other international ones and some merged with local ones to increase revenue base. The economy start to run on the other way from its usual regulated.

Oil cannot accommodate the populace and it's alone what makes Nigeria an emerging economy but the ability of Nigeria to start investing and be invested on in other areas like the industries - steel, aluminium smelting industries, electronics( mobilephones, televisions, radios, computers, etc), cement, Agriculture( even those evaquated from Zimbabwe are investing in agriculture, though, very little part of the Nigeria Agriculture). if any nation at the moment has more industries than Nigeria in africa, it should be South Africa and Egypt.


Oil or no oil dependence as overemphasized by Mister 79 forgeting that it can be used as way of attracting investors. Atleast, a country trying to have emerging economy or has emerged must have to attract investors through some means and I guess oil is just Nigeria most attractive means.

I barely know you Mister 79 but I can tell that you are a hypercritical or hypocritical human being seeing nothing will change about Africa. Your aguement is so negative that it's misleading about understanding emergng economy characteristics.


You don't understand me.
Saudi-Arabia is not been seen as an emerging market. Yes, they are rich the economy is growing, but because the economy is too independent on oil they are not seen as an emerging market...

Africa is growing. A lot of countries like Angola, Nigeria, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Cap Verde, Ghana etc etc are having a economic boom. The worldbank spoke recently about e economic miracle in Africa.

But you are seen as an emerging market if you now have a divers economy. That doesn't mean that the countries in the future will not been seen as emerging market.

That's the exodus of some African countries seeing the blinking light of emerging economy at this time.

Beleive me not in the case of Nigeria. Chinese were not the first to let us understand how to diversify our economy. If you look closely to the areas been diversified in Nigeria are non-chinese involved. And, don't also get it wrong chinese have being investing in Nigeria for long. The simple truth is that Nigeria has taken a bold step by paying its debt.That was a good indicator that the nation can afford investment. The goverment embraced democracy, that is another indicator. The economy as a whole has been brought to table when the mobile telecomunication posted over 2 billions dollars revenue on it first years. That is amazing in a poor economy! some investors start to see the financial sector as a place of investment - some banks merged with other international ones and some merged with local ones to increase revenue base. The economy start to run on the other way from its usual regulated.

Oil cannot accommodate the populace and it's alone what makes Nigeria an emerging economy but the ability of Nigeria to start investing and be invested on in other areas like the industries - steel, aluminium smelting industries, electronics( mobilephones, televisions, radios, computers, etc), cement, Agriculture( even those evaquated from Zimbabwe are investing in agriculture, though, very little part of the Nigeria Agriculture). if any nation at the moment has more industries than Nigeria in africa, it should be South Africa and Egypt.


Oil or no oil dependence as overemphasized by Mister 79 forgeting that it can be used as way of attracting investors. Atleast, a country trying to have emerging economy or has emerged must have to attract investors through some means and I guess oil is just Nigeria most attractive means.

I barely know you Mister 79 but I can tell that you are a hypercritical or hypocritical human being seeing nothing will change about Africa. Your aguement is so negative that it's misleading about understanding emergng economy characteristics.

What is that for lies?
Have I said that Africa is not growing???

I have said it many times Nigeria has everything to become a major economy. They have the chicken with the golden eggs.

Africa has now and the comming 20 years or more an economic boom. The Worldbank spoke recently about the economic miracle in Africa. Angola is one of the fastest growing economy in the world.
Nigeria, Algeria, Egypt, Ghana, Cap Verde, South-Africa, Sub-Sahara etc etc are all doing a fantastic job...

I am not talking about economic growth but about what economists see as an emerging market. Saudi-Arabia, Oman, VAE etc are all have economic growth but are not been seen as emerging markets. Because the economy is too independent of oil...

You don't understand me.
Saudi-Arabia is not been seen as an emerging market. Yes, they are rich the economy is growing, but because the economy is too independent on oil they are not seen as an emerging market...

Africa is growing. A lot of countries like Angola, Nigeria, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Cap Verde, Ghana etc etc are having a economic boom. The worldbank spoke recently about e economic miracle in Africa.

But you are seen as an emerging market if you now have a divers economy. That doesn't mean that the countries in the future will not been seen as emerging market.

What's an emerging economy? and your last explanation just put it almost right " that doesn't mean that the countries in the future will not be seen as emerging markets". To emerge means to come to be noticed and emerging is just the continous verb of that.

Let's not mistunderstood one another here guys. Saudi Arabia has a good living standard even ahead of South Africa but not develop more than SA in the actual sense of industrial development. Good example is Lybia which you cannot compare its economy to that of Nigeria in term of size.

To conclude it all, Nigeria is an emerging economy yet unoticed, on the short period it has tried to change thing. It really takes time to be known as an emerging economy. It's not just a day work.

What's an emerging economy? and your last explanation just put it almost right " that doesn't mean that the countries in the future will not be seen as emerging markets". To emerge means to come to be noticed and emerging is just the continous verb of that.

Let's not mistunderstood one another here guys. Saudi Arabia has a good living standard even ahead of South Africa but not develop more than SA in the actual sense of industrial development. Good example is Lybia which you cannot compare its economy to that of Nigeria in term of size.

To conclude it all, Nigeria is an emerging economy yet unoticed, on the short period it has tried to change thing. It really takes time to be known as an emerging economy. It's not just a day work.


Yes, that is what I mean. Now we understand eachother...

For example nobody could believ more then 10-15 years ago that Vietnam could be an emerging country. They had so much poverty and the economy was bad. But since a couple years they are now seen as an emerging market. Because of economic reforms and good investment climate..

The same is for Indonesia. They had years ago so much poverty and the economy was not doing so good. But now they are been seen as an economic market...

What you are saying about Saudie-Arabia is true, They are a rich country and on Human index development much better then a lot of countries, but because they have no big industry and because the economy is for a great part oil. They are not been seen as an emerging market.

If Saudie-Arabia would divers the economy. They could be an emerging market in de the future.

For Libya is it the same. On Human Index development they are one of the best in Africa but because the economy is only oil. They are not been seen as emerging market.

Yes, that is what I mean. Now we understand eachother...

For example nobody could believ more then 10-15 years ago that Vietnam could be an emerging country. They had so much poverty and the economy was bad. But since a couple years they are now seen as an emerging market. Because of economic reforms and good investment climate..

The same is for Indonesia. They had years ago so much poverty and the economy was not doing so good. But now they are been seen as an economic market...

What you are saying about Saudie-Arabia is true, They are a rich country and on Human index development much better then a lot of countries, but because they have no big industry and because the economy is for a great part oil. They are not been seen as an emerging market.

If Saudie-Arabia would divers the economy. They could be an emerging market in de the future.

For Libya is it the same. On Human Index development they are one of the best in Africa but because the economy is only oil. They are not been seen as emerging market.

The simple secrete is that the power of emerging is to merge some local industries with the foreigns'(the developed nations mostly), let the foreigners buy into the so that through them your economy is noticed. They wouldn't want a situation of loosing and then keep a closer watch on their gains. The government itself must put the local economy into place to compete internationally and diverse it from a single earning to multiple earnings.

No one could believe you if you had said more then 10 years ago that Russia, Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan etc would become emerging markets in the future.

Russia economy was at the beginning of Poetin regime in big problems. The same is for Turkey. They had so many economic problems. The FDI investment more then 10 years ago in Turkey was only 1 billion dollar. After the reformed the economy now it is 20 billion dollar a year!!!

The majority of the people in Vietnam lived in poverty 10-15 years ago. And now the poverty had dramaticaly increased in Vietnam and Vietnam economy is booming...

You can not always predict if a country is going to become an emerging market.

No one could believe you if you had said more then 10 years ago that Russia, Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan etc would become emerging markets in the future.


Miser 79, Indonesia was more of an "emerging market" under the long era of Suharto before the Asian financial crisis (1997) brutally struck the country than after it. The economic growth rates and the capital inflow was enomous during that period.... check article and statistics about Indonesia.

Pakistan an emerging market, in Europe they are talking about Pakistan being the next failed state.

No one could believe you if you had said more then 10 years ago that Russia, Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan etc would become emerging markets in the future.


Miser 79, Indonesia was more of an "emerging market" under the long era of Suharto before the Asian financial crisis (1997) brutally struck the country than after it. The economic growth rates and the capital inflow were enomous during that period.... check article and statistics about Indonesia.

Pakistan an emerging market, in Europe they are talking about Pakistan being the next failed state.

No one could believe you if you had said more then 10 years ago that Russia, Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan etc would become emerging markets in the future.

Russia economy was at the beginning of Poetin regime in big problems. The same is for Turkey. They had so many economic problems. The FDI investment more then 10 years ago in Turkey was only 1 billion dollar. After the reformed the economy now it is 20 billion dollar a year!!!

The majority of the people in Vietnam lived in poverty 10-15 years ago. And now the poverty had dramaticaly increased in Vietnam and Vietnam economy is booming...

You can not always predict if a country is going to become an emerging market.

You can always predict with the market values and with the overall economy performance.

At the moment the economy base of Nigeria is getting ahead of Egypt don't be deceived. And, don't froget that the past (like corruption, dictatorship,etc) as a whole has cost Nigeria so much harm that things will take some years to materialize.

Yes,size is important but Nigeria has not utilize it well not until now it has beginning to see how it can play a very good role in the economy.

Am not saying here that Nigeria is industrialized. Infact, no any nation in africa is industrialized maybe South Africa should get close when less industrialization is considered.

Nigeria has more industries than Morocco. Morocco is largely textile, Agricultural, cement(limestone), food processing, and most of other numbers of industries are located in the city of casablanca. If you are skeptical of that you need to see to the industrial base of Morocco and compare it from city to city in number with those of Nigeria.

Im begging you, please compare. Maybe it will tone down your arrogance a bit. :cheers: And maybe you can confirm your statements about Egypt aswell...with arguments that is.

Im begging you, please compare. Maybe it will tone down your arrogance a bit. :cheers: And maybe you can confirm your statements about Egypt aswell...with arguments that is.

I don't know but according to CIA factfile, the list of manufacturing industries in Nigeria seem to be more than that of Morocco.

I guess, fairness2007 should really try and answer your question.

Pakistan an emerging market, in Europe they are talking about Pakistan being the next failed state

Actually, beleive it or not, since musharaff came to power, corruption levels have decreased, foreign investment has increased, economic growth has literally turned around. Essentially, the only things holding pakistan back are its security problems derived from ethnic/religious animosity.

Miser 79, Indonesia was more of an "emerging market" under the long era of Suharto before the Asian financial crisis (1997) brutally struck the country than after it. The economic growth rates and the capital inflow was enomous during that period.... check article and statistics about Indonesia.

Pakistan an emerging market, in Europe they are talking about Pakistan being the next failed state.

:bash: :bash: :bash:

The Emerging Markets Index is a float-adjusted market capitalization index. As of May 2005, it consisted of indices in 26 emerging economies: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Egypt, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Africa, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey and Venezuela.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/emergingmarketsindex.asp

^^ ONLY 2 African countries here: Morocco & South Africa. No one from Sub-Saharan Africa.


Emerging Markest - According to MORGAN STANLEY:
Pink - Developed
Blue - Emerging

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Developed_and_Emerging_markets.png

^^^^^^

Argentina Brazil Chile China Colombia Czech Republic Egypt Hungary India Indonesia Israel Jordan Malaysia Mexico Morocco Pakistan Peru Philippines Poland Russia Slovakia South Africa South Korea Republic of China (Taiwan) Thailand Turkey

^^ ONLY 3 African countries here: Egypt, Morocco & South Africa. Again not a single country from Sub-Saharan Africa.

Mexico, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey - the emerging markets to watch

potential to overtake existing BRIC countries – Brazil and Russia.

Mexico, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey are in a favourable position to become the new generation of emerging economies to have significant impact on the global economy claims Grant Thornton International. Following on from the Grant Thornton International Business Report (IBR) in February 2007 into the impact of the BRIC economies (Brazil Russia, India and China) on the global market place the international accounting organisation has identified Mexico, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey as the front runners to inherit the BRIC mantel from the original four. These countries may match or even overtake some of the commonly identified BRIC economies (Brazil, Russia, India and China) which are expected to join the global economic powers.

Although these economies are unlikely to match India or China in strength, they certainly have the potential to rival Brazil and Russia in terms of economic strength.

Alex MacBeath, global leader of privately held business services for Grant Thornton International, said:

“Indonesia and Pakistan, with their large populations, have the potential to grow their labour-intensive exports and could capitalise on the process of low-cost production that mainland China has so successfully exploited. Mexico, as the 14th largest economy in the world, is benefiting from its close trading ties with the other North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) countries and is well-placed to play a more significant role in the Americas. Turkey is expanding robustly and is on the path to making the transition to a modern industrial economy and is set to increase its influence in Western Europe and the Middle East.”

http://www.internationalbusinessreport.com/main/index1.php?page=140&lang=&id=&country_id=

^^ LINK: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=13552180&postcount=352

Pakistan has been put in a new group called 'N-11' The Next Eleven, along with Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Korea, Mexico, Nigeria, Philipines, Turkey and Vietnam.

The 'N-11' are highly unlikely to be able to be as important as the the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India and China) on the global scale in the future due to their relatively smaller populations and lesser influence on the world stage.

Pakistan in Goldman Sachs Global Economic Paper:

- Pakistan is the 2nd most highly populated nation in 'N-11' group of countries.

- Currently Pakistan is right in the middle of the group with a GDP of US$bn 120. With 5 countries having a lower GDP than Pakistan (Bangladesh, Egypt, Nigeria, Philipines and Vietnam) and 5 countries having a larger GDP than Pakistan (Indonesia, Iran, Korea, Mexico and Turkey).

- Our Average growth rate between 2000-2005 was 4.1% which was faster than that of only Mexico (2.6%) and Egypt (4.0%).

- At US$737, Pakistan GDP Per Capita in 2005 is higher than only 3 members of the N-11 - Bangladesh (US$422), Vietnam (US$566) and Nigeria (US$ 733). It is also higher than 1 BRIC member - India (US$ 691).

- By 2025 Pakistan is projected to be the 18th Largest economy in the World with GDP US$bn412. Greater than Bangladesh, Egypt, Nigeria and Philipines, yet still smaller than the rest of N-11, BRICs and G-7.

- Pakistan is projected to become a Trillion Dollar Economy in 2040 when its GDP reaches US$bn 1,191 or US$tn 1.191.

- With a GDP US$bn of 2,287 or US$tn 2.287 in 2050 Pakistan is projected to overtake Iran's GDP. However projected to be overtaken by Nigeria in 2035, Philipines in 2040 and Egypt in 2045 means than Pakistan will slump from 18th to 20th position in the World Rankings by 2050. Although it will still be higher than Bangladesh and Iran's GDP.

- Pakistan is likely to have a Per Capita Income of US$ 1,800 by 2025, but being overtaken by Vietnam (US$ 4357) and India (US$ 2656) would result in Pakistan having a higher per capita income than only 2 of the N-11 members (Nigeria and Bangladesh) and none of the BRIC countries.

- Nigeria is projected to overtake Pakistan in terms of per capita income in 2035, leaving Pakistan's per capita income of US$ 7,753 being greater than only that of Bangladesh in the 'N-11' group in 2050.

Pakistan's Projected GDP Growth Rates:

2005-10: 5.6%

2010-15: 5.0%

2015-20: 4.9%

2020-25: 5.0%

2025-30: 5.1%

2030-35: 5.3%

2035-40: 5.2%

2040-45: 4.9%

2045-50: 4.6%

http://www.gs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

Summary by me :)

^^ LINK: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=9286826&postcount=165

:bash: :bash: :bash:

The Emerging Markets Index is a float-adjusted market capitalization index. As of May 2005, it consisted of indices in 26 emerging economies: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Egypt, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Africa, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey and Venezuela.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/emergingmarketsindex.asp

^^ ONLY 2 African countries here: Morocco & South Africa. No one from Sub-Saharan Africa.


Emerging Markest - According to MORGAN STANLEY:
Pink - Developed
Blue - Emerging

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Developed_and_Emerging_markets.png

^^^^^^

Argentina Brazil Chile China Colombia Czech Republic Egypt Hungary India Indonesia Israel Jordan Malaysia Mexico Morocco Pakistan Peru Philippines Poland Russia Slovakia South Africa South Korea Republic of China (Taiwan) Thailand Turkey

^^ ONLY 3 African countries here: Egypt, Morocco & South Africa. Again not a single country from Sub-Saharan Africa.



^^ LINK: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=13552180&postcount=352



^^ LINK: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=9286826&postcount=165

Do you know what's called Sub Saharan Africa at all. What about South Africa? Moroccans really lack good knowledge about economy and regions.

You are using index but I think people are talking about defination here. Even by index Nigeria is still not too far away from it at the moment.

The truth is that your index is wacky.

^^ Dont generalize please, and he isnt even moroccan.

Sorry, Abdellah. Just that I have seen such index posted by a Moroccan before.

The Emerging Markets Index is a float-adjusted market capitalization index. As of May 2005, it consisted of indices in 26 emerging economies: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Egypt, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Africa, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey and Venezuela.

2005 is already old more than 2 1/2 years old...if Pakistan is an emerging market Nigeria is there, too. by now.

Give me better details instead of old and wacky stuff!

Moreover, you are Pakistani, no Pakistani ever visited our forum but you seem able to find out the word "Pakistan" in all of Sub-Saharan Africa, i don´t know when the word Africa falls on your forum, I will be there to comment.

Anyway, welcome!

One last word of advice since when is South Africa not sub-Sahara Africa??? it just shows your misinformation/disrepect and your general view you cultivate towards Africa, a Freudian slip! ("a nation in Sub-Saharan Africa can´t make it")

no Pakistani ever visited our forum

I forget you "Kboy", you show interest in Africa, sorry, man!

God I hate coming off as a biased patriot but neither Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan or Mexico are capable of surpassing Brazil. Turkey and Mexico could overtake Russia but thats about it.

Hi, if you're interested, there are some african economies in "The World in 2008" by The Economist
http://www.economist.com/theworldin/forecasts/COUNTRY_PAGES_2008.pdf

Hi, if you're interested, there are some african economies in "The World in 2008" by The Economist
http://www.economist.com/theworldin/forecasts/COUNTRY_PAGES_2008.pdf

Is this their end of year edition? It tends to be thicker than all the other weekly publications.

Yes it is. You can also find most of the articles (though not all) from the paper edition in here:
http://www.economist.com/theworldin/

I KNOW that Sub-Saharan Africa means countries other than those in North Africa and I also know that it includes South Africa BUT many people exclude South Africa as it is richer than others in Sub-Saharan Africa. Haven't you guys seen index's and tables quoting "Sub Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa)"? Maybe I should have been much more clear...but I didn't have time.


2005 is already old more than 2 1/2 years old...if Pakistan is an emerging market Nigeria is there, too. by now.

Give me better details instead of old and wacky stuff!

What about the other links that I provided??

Moreover, you are Pakistani, no Pakistani ever visited our forum but you seem able to find out the word "Pakistan" in all of Sub-Saharan Africa, i don´t know when the word Africa falls on your forum, I will be there to comment.

Actually I was interested in this thread due to my interest in economics especially macro economics. I wan to see the whole world proper (including Africa) BUT when I saw some ignorant fool mocking my country, I couldn't help but intervene. If someone disrespects my country then I see no reason why I can't be mean in return too.

Anyway, welcome!

Your welcome! :)

One last word of advice since when is South Africa not sub-Sahara Africa??? it just shows your misinformation/disrepect and your general view you cultivate towards Africa, a Freudian slip! ("a nation in Sub-Saharan Africa can´t make it")

READ THE TOP OF THE POST. Those are just your assumptions of me.

Sorry, Abdellah. Just that I have seen such index posted by a Moroccan before.

Wow thats a bad excuse. What is this with people liking to bash Morocco and Moroccans? Seriously? Making statements and then not proving them is really lame also.

2005 is already old more than 2 1/2 years old...if Pakistan is an emerging market Nigeria is there, too. by now.

Give me better details instead of old and wacky stuff!

Moreover, you are Pakistani, no Pakistani ever visited our forum but you seem able to find out the word "Pakistan" in all of Sub-Saharan Africa, i don´t know when the word Africa falls on your forum, I will be there to comment.

Anyway, welcome!

One last word of advice since when is South Africa not sub-Sahara Africa??? it just shows your misinformation/disrepect and your general view you cultivate towards Africa, a Freudian slip! ("a nation in Sub-Saharan Africa can´t make it")

The MSCI emerging markets index is from June 2006, as i posted before.

The MSCI emerging markets index is from June 2006, as i posted before.

I was refeering to the index of the Pakistani guy!

I was refeering to the index of the Pakistani guy!

Yes, and that picture with all the states + colors dates from June 2006, as it is the same one as i posted earlier. :)

Moreover, Moragn Stanley said Nigeria will be among the 20 strongest economies worldwide, it is impossible that Nigeria is not an emerging market, tell that to people of Renaissance Group, tell that to the people of Morgan Stanley, do you think that they are idiots?? READ MY FT THREAD ABOUT NIGERIAFIRST AND CAREFULLY AND COME BACK TO DISCUSS WITH US AFTERWARDS

I wonder why people always want to keep Nigeria down at all costs?!DAMMMMMNNN:bash::bash:

Moreover, Moragn Stanley said Nigeria will be among the 20 strongest economies worldwide, it is impossible that Nigeria is not an emerging market, tell that to people of Renaissance Group, tell that to the people of Morgan Stanley, do you think that they are idiots?? READ MY FT THREAD ABOUT NIGERIAFIRST AND CAREFULLY AND COME BACK TO DISCUSS WITH US AFTERWARDS

I wonder why people always want to keep Nigeria down at all costs?!DAMMMMMNNN:bash::bash:


20 strongest or 20 largest? The MSCI index is made by Morgan Stanely, so ask them why they didnt call it an emerging country. Im just stating facts here, nothing else. And its ofcourse logical that Nigeria will be in the top 20 largest economies, as the population counts nearly 140 million. No other african country has a huge population like that. Besides, telling a country isnt in the MSCI EM index, doesn't mean that it has a shit economy or doesnt develop. Thats just what you think, nobody has said that.

I think the main problem for Nigeria is the inflation. If the economy is growing with 8% and the inflation is growing with 9%, then you are relatively not growing. (note this is just an example). Then it would be better to have a growth rate of 5% with an inflation of 2% or 1%.

20 strongest or 20 largest? The MSCI index is made by Morgan Stanely, so ask them why they didnt call it an emerging country. Im just stating facts here, nothing else. And its ofcourse logical that Nigeria will be in the top 20 largest economies, as the population counts nearly 140 million. No other african country has a huge population like that. Besides, telling a country isnt in the MSCI EM index, doesn't mean that it has a shit economy or doesnt develop. Thats just what you think, nobody has said that.

I think the main problem for Nigeria is the inflation. If the economy is growing with 8% and the inflation is growing with 9%, then you are relatively not growing. (note this is just an example). Then it would be better to have a growth rate of 5% with an inflation of 2% or 1%.

A large economy is always strong but a small economy can be strong as well but seldom large!

Well, I am telling you facts, too, given by Morgan Stanely.

I won´t discuss this matter over with you as long as you haven´t read the ft articles on an ft thread dedicated to Nigeria. The macro-economic picture of Nigeria is sound (foreign debt is only 2, 5% of GDP!!!); paid off debt by Nigeria.

You know, Nigeria did a lot of wrong in the past but the reforms (thanks to Obasanjo and his team) that we see today would have been unimagibale in Nigeria ten years back. So leave the country follow its path and stop attacking us "with your friendly smile"!

I can´t shake off the feeling that you still have the feeling that it would give you extreme pleasure if Nigeria implodes tommorrow
...but how many times have we been told Nigeria is about to implode, Nigeria on the brink of collapse, the" horror on earth " but the so-called "horror on earth" is still developping, it is still there, foreigners are willing to invest, Nigeria got the largest investment chunk of entire Africa last year and the best is that most of it is coming from the non-oil sector, figures will certainly be higher this year and all is the start and not the end what you implicity try to convey us here.

20 strongest or 20 largest? The MSCI index is made by Morgan Stanely, so ask them why they didnt call it an emerging country. Im just stating facts here, nothing else. And its ofcourse logical that Nigeria will be in the top 20 largest economies, as the population counts nearly 140 million. No other african country has a huge population like that. Besides, telling a country isnt in the MSCI EM index, doesn't mean that it has a shit economy or doesnt develop. Thats just what you think, nobody has said that.

I think the main problem for Nigeria is the inflation. If the economy is growing with 8% and the inflation is growing with 9%, then you are relatively not growing. (note this is just an example). Then it would be better to have a growth rate of 5% with an inflation of 2% or 1%.


The GDP growth rate is the REAL growht rate which already includes inflation in there. The 2006 GDP growth rate for Nigeria was 5.3% with inflation included.

Matthias Offodile, Stop worrying about the haters and keep the country going. Nigeria will be the African Lion economy as long as they take care of business. :cheers:

The dog barks, the camel marches on...:okay:

Moreover, Moragn Stanley said Nigeria will be among the 20 strongest economies worldwide, it is impossible that Nigeria is not an emerging market, tell that to people of Renaissance Group, tell that to the people of Morgan Stanley, do you think that they are idiots?? READ MY FT THREAD ABOUT NIGERIAFIRST AND CAREFULLY AND COME BACK TO DISCUSS WITH US AFTERWARDS

I wonder why people always want to keep Nigeria down at all costs?!DAMMMMMNNN:bash::bash:

Guys, NIGERIA IS AN EMERGING ECONOMY, whichever way you look at it. Its the largest oil exporter in sub-saharan africa, it has the largest population in the continent, its industrial, construction, telecommunications and financial services sectors are booming. Its stock exchange and other regulatory structures are modernizing much faster. It may not be currently classified by the MSCI index as such, but i think those who are well informed understand that Nigeria's time has come.

The GDP growth rate is the REAL growht rate which already includes inflation in there. The 2006 GDP growth rate for Nigeria was 5.3% with inflation included.

Matthias Offodile, Stop worrying about the haters and keep the country going. Nigeria will be the African Lion economy as long as they take care of business. :cheers:

The dog barks, the camel marches on...:okay:


Yep but i wasnt talking about GDP growth, but overal economy growth. Dont put words into my mouth. The problem with ALL African countries is that they are agriculture depended. The 2006 GDP growth rate for Morocco was 9.1%, mostly due to good agriculture output.

A large economy is always strong but a small economy can be strong as well but seldom large!

Well, I am telling you facts, too, given by Morgan Stanely.

I won´t discuss this matter over with you as long as you haven´t read the ft articles on an ft thread dedicated to Nigeria. The macro-economic picture of Nigeria is sound (foreign debt is only 2, 5% of GDP!!!); paid off debt by Nigeria.

I have read the articles, and it says it will be an emerging economy in the future. I dont think anybody has denied that, but most people here are talking about now, this moment. Your statement about a large economy always being strong = poo. A large economy but heavily depended on agriculture or oil is not a strong economy. A strong economy is a diverse economy. Nigeria is growing, but the middclass is just extremely small compared to North-Africa and South- Africa. I mean + 70% of Nigeria lives below poverty line, thats what holding that country back. Im sure that if you guys fix that, you will be marked as an emerging country. :) All my posts contain positive criticism, bashing would be if i would say that Nigeria is a crap country that is stupid and doesnt grow. Bashing would be to say that all Nigerians are terrorists or something like that... remember your racist comments Matthias? Because i do.

Yep but i wasnt talking about GDP growth, but overal economy growth. Dont put words into my mouth. The problem with ALL African countries is that they are agriculture depended. The 2006 GDP growth rate for Morocco was 9.1%, mostly due to good agriculture output.

Yes, "of course" Marocco is "heaven on earth" and the rest of Africa is "shit", happy now? OK. So can we move on, please!

Yes, "of course" Marocco is "heaven on earth" and the rest of Africa is "shit", happy now? OK. So can we move on, please!

Whats that for stupid remark? ^^ Seriously, you act like a raging bull. No wonder nobody else from the other subforums come here.

Whats that for stupid remark? Seriously, you act like a raging bull. No wonder nobody else from the other subforums come here.

I am just fed up with African haters and people tellin´ what´s wrong, can´t it get into your coconut head?

I am just fed up with African haters and people tellin´ what´s wrong, can´t it get into your coconut head?

I am fed up with you not taking any form of criticism. And how can i be an African hater while im an African. Besides, i still remember you as being racist, that image wont disappear with these kind of remarks. In order to get things right, you must know where things go wrong. A thread like this on a discussion forum is made to discuss. You can only discuss, when you disagree. Otherwise you already agree and you have nothing to discuss about. That means that everybody has a different vision about the subject. You can accept that, or just start calling names and cry like a baby everytime someone gives POSITIVE criticism.

I am fed up with you not taking any form of criticism. And how can i be an African hater while im an African. Besides, i still remember you as being racist, that image wont disappear with these kind of remarks. In order to get things right, you must know where things go wrong. A thread like this on a discussion forum is made to discuss. You can only discuss, when you disagree. Otherwise you already agree and you have nothing to discuss about. That means that everybody has a different vision about the subject. You can accept that, or just start calling names and cry like a baby everytime someone gives POSITIVE criticism.

That´s not positive criticism you are giving!! nothing constructive!!

Did you comment on any of the picture threads, did you post any relevant stuff about africa that depicts countries in a good light, did you search for projects for any African country. People like you really you go me off my ass which explains my aggression!

Dann babbel doch mit Dir selbst, du Arschkecks...haben deine Kamele gerade mal Freilauf oder warum verbringst du hier so viel Zeit?

That´s not positive criticism you are giving!! nothing constructive!!

Did you comment on any of the picture threads, did you post any relevant stuff about africa that depicts countries in a good light, did you search for projects for any African country. People like you really you go me off my ass which explains my aggression!

Dann babbel doch mit Dir selbst, du Arschkecks...haben deine Kamele gerade mal Freilauf oder warum verbringst du hier so viel Zeit?

First of all, if you look at my posts.. ITS ALL postive criticism. Not one single post bashes the country or any other african country. Picture threads are good to watch, i dont like to respond to most of them because they are PICTURE threads and i hate it when people respond in them.

Second, why do you talk in German, since im not a German. Third, although im not German, i do speak and understand it and you are busted once again as a racist/childish person that makes the whole African forum look bad.

Matthias please give it a rest. You're embarrassing yourself again.

your argumenst are just lame!, isn´t it an open forum where you said that everybody can discuss everything freely, then you say it is a picture thread.

Not one single post bashes the country or any other african country. Picture threads are good to watch, i dont like to respond to most of them because they are PICTURE threads and i hate it when people respond in them.


Well, I am happy that I am a "racist" in your eyes, in mine, you are a full-blown one, too! So we do have at least something in common!

just toodle off if you don´t have anything more to say! I am done with you!

Didn´t you read what Kulani said but you stll keep on hacking on our heads like a babyboy that wants to have a bigger and faster toy car!

Enough is enough!!! you people really get worked up on me. We don´t need Lydon here now again, you are all like poisonuos snakes waiting for prey! So back to the topic!

http://www.bielefeldundbuss.de/bilder/stop.gif

Now that we have vented a bit, Can we all recharge our batteries and continue our discussions on African Economies..I prefer to engage in these types of discussions

I'll start..to me the strongest Economies in Africa are South Africa, Morocco and Egypt...the remaining countries are indeed developing economies but as someone said earlier, no economy can prosper really without bringing the middle class along, because they are the main consumers of the society. An economy where the rich are depositing a large chunk of their stash in Swiss Bank accounts is not yet a serious economy. the government needs to exercise strong fiscal controls on money coming in and leaving the country...This is where South Africa has upper hand

Out of curiousity, does Nigeria have a functioning tax code?. I ask because when I was there in May, most of the folks tell me that it is usually the civil servants that pay taxes, the tax on the rich is low..any truth to this?

'll start..to me the strongest Economies in Africa are South Africa, Morocco and Egypt..

the strongest economies in Africa are South Africa, Egypt and Nigeria!

Mince alors, when does it enter your heads, even Algeria is bigger than Marocco, Capiche?!

Out of curiousity, does Nigeria have a functioning tax code?. I ask because when I was there in May, most of the folks tell me that it is usually the civil servants that pay taxes, the tax on the rich is low..any truth to this?

Where do you come from? And where have you been to?

yes nigeria has a functioning tax code, but its easier for the rich to evade taxes than the civil servants since the civil servants work for the people government, the very people taxing them

The lagest economies in entire Africa in terms of GDP are:

South Africa 261 Billion
Nigeria $152 Billion
Egypt $145 Billion
Algeria $128 Billion
Marocco $71 Billion

Source: http://www.economist.com/theworldin/forecasts/COUNTRY_PAGES_2008.pdf

I m not a big fan of economist as said earlier but these figures speak for themselves.
As for Nigeria reforms have been initiated, the macro-economic picture is sound and it is getting better and better and not worse and worse what some people inwardly long for in this forum. It is a thread about Africa´s largest economies and sorry Marocco is not as big not even half as big as Nigeria who is just awakening and not dying! This doesn´t say that Marocco is not doing fine, your country has also come a long way, but do I go to your forum and tell all what is wrong, you have a big problem with an African nation rising, always pointing to the negative and trying to sell it for "positive crticism".

Moreover, if you check older GDP figures of Nigeria, let´s say around 1998/99, you will see the difference, this will only accelarate with the reforms in place!

I like nominal gdp when comparing sizes of Economies, but its interesting to see the changes when peoples purchasing power is taken into account.

South Africa $695 bn
Egypt $440 bn
Algeria $287 bn
Nigeria $212 bn
Morroco $185 bn

Now that we have vented a bit, Can we all recharge our batteries and continue our discussions on African Economies..I prefer to engage in these types of discussions

I'll start..to me the strongest Economies in Africa are South Africa, Morocco and Egypt...the remaining countries are indeed developing economies but as someone said earlier, no economy can prosper really without bringing the middle class along, because they are the main consumers of the society. An economy where the rich are depositing a large chunk of their stash in Swiss Bank accounts is not yet a serious economy. the government needs to exercise strong fiscal controls on money coming in and leaving the country...This is where South Africa has upper hand

Out of curiousity, does Nigeria have a functioning tax code?. I ask because when I was there in May, most of the folks tell me that it is usually the civil servants that pay taxes, the tax on the rich is low..any truth to this?

However, economy of Morocco comparing it to that of Nigeria is small but with larger share market value. The economy base of Nigeria is far larger than that of Morocco. Not forgeting that morocco operates on deficit unlike Ngeria. That country belong to France, beleive me when we are talking about economy.

The poverty rate in Nigeria is very high when compare to Morocco. I think it is 19% for Morocco and 45% for Nigeria. Besides, the unemployment rate in Morocco is higher at 7.7% while Nigeria is 5.8%. Infrastrutures and development Morocco has an edge over Nigeria. I guess, this was due to the neglect of the sector by the corrupt dictators who had ruled the country.

At the moment the economy strenght of Nigeria should be stronger than the Moroccan on relative comparity.Resources,Gross domestic Product,work force, industrial base, educated population( but the quality of infrastruture is poor compared to the Moroccan), National income,etc.

Nigeria is young on development. Thing started coming the right way when the nation embraced democracy.

I like nominal gdp when comparing sizes of Economies, but its interesting to see the changes when peoples purchasing power is taken into account.

South Africa $695 bn
Egypt $440 bn
Algeria $287 bn
Nigeria $212 bn
Morroco $185 bn

Exactly, please do that Alex. :)

However, economy of Morocco comparing it to that of Nigeria is small but with larger share market value. The economy base of Nigeria is far larger than that of Morocco. Not forgeting that morocco operates on deficit unlike Ngeria. That country belong to France, beleive me when we are talking about economy.

The poverty rate in Nigeria is very high when compare to Morocco. I think it is 19% for Morocco and 45% for Nigeria. Besides, the unemployment rate in Morocco is higher at 7.7% while Nigeria is 5.8%. Infrastrutures and development Morocco has an edge over Nigeria. I guess, this was due to the neglect of the sector by the corrupt dictors which had ruled the country.

At the moment the economy strenght of Nigeria should be stronger than the Moroccan on relative comparity.Resources,Gross domestic Product,work force, industrial base, educated population( but the quality of infrastruture is poor compared to the Moroccan), National income,etc.

Nigeria is young on development. Thing started coming the right way when the nation embraced democracy.

Seriously, you are comparing a 140 million people country with a 30 million people country. Devide the GDP between those 140 million and you will see the difference.

Source: http://www.economist.com/theworldin/forecasts/COUNTRY_PAGES_2008.pdf

I m not a big fan of economist as said earlier but these figures speak for themselves.
As for Nigeria reforms have been initiated, the macro-economic picture is sound and it is getting better and better and not worse and worse what some people inwardly long for in this forum. It is a thread about Africa´s largest economies and sorry Marocco is not as big not even half as big as Nigeria who is just awakening and not dying! This doesn´t say that Marocco is not doing fine, your country has also come a long way, but do I go to your forum and tell all what is wrong, you have a big problem with an African nation rising, always pointing to the negative and trying to sell it for "positive crticism".

This is not a Nigeria sub-forum, so live with it. Next to that GDP doesnt say anything about how strong an economy is, just how large it is. To explain it, before you go ranting again:

China has $10.17 trillion (2006 est.) (purchasing power parity)
United States — GDP: $13.13 trillion (2006 est.) (purchasing power parity)

Only... China has 1.2 BILLION people.
The US has 300 million people... Catch my drift?

If you want to measure, use GDP per head or PPP per head ...on the same source. Because the source is good. To conclude, yes Nigeria might has one of the larger economies of Africa, but DEFINATELY not the strongest.