Hey guys, new to the site, had an idea and thought I'd see what people think

So the idea: As the Arndale is (currently) the largest inner city shopping centre in the UK it has enormous footfall and is one of the largest buildings in the city. As Manchester has in my opinion a lack of a large inner city public space (neither Albert square or Piccadilly gardens being particularly big) the size and more or less level height of the Arndale roof provides an opportunity.

Key points:
Would provide an iconic large open space which could be filled with greenery and works of art (e.g. modern sculptures) which could become a tourist attraction in itself.

The Manchester wheel could be placed on top (I do not know if the building would support the weight, does else know?) thereby providing a permanent place which does not take up a large section of a valuable square in the city.
It would also benefit from improved views over the city and being permanent would look more professional.

It would help link the city more and encourage movement to, and regeneration of the city north of the Arndale which has not benefited substantially from the city's boom.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff303/spoonsbeatfish/ManchesterArndaleRedevelopment.jpg
It could help compliment and expand the exchange square and provide an increased area to watch televised events in public.
Would provide opportunity to completely redevelop and expand food court into something more appealing with increased capacity.
Going to the top of the Arndale tower with a nice bar at the top could become another tourist attraction to complement the wheel.

Review:
Whether people like it or not, the Arndale is a large part of the city centre, a project like this could not only make it a much better place but also an iconic/original attraction (high level public space/garden). It could be done at the same time as the redevelopment of the south eastern corner by BHS and at the same time as the food court.

Only an idea, could easily be not in the slightest plausable but I think it would be nice if it could ever happen, any comments welcomed.

an intersting and radical idea.

i'm not sure if it would work as in would people bother going up there, its actualy quite high up. and the biggest problem is obvioulsy, what do you do with all of the arndales services which are now on the roof?

looks good, nice thought. Where do all the services for the existing buildings go though....

I don't really know if moving/altering the services would be possible or how expensive it would be. Can't find a photo zoomed in enough to get a good look to tell how uneven the roof is but I would say to either build over the services (what would another 2 metres make after the height of the Arndale) build around them, i.e. not have all of the roof accessible or maybe incorporate some of them.
I think it was near the Mayors office in London where I saw some metal trees. If it could be done artistically mixing urban with green maybe some could be incorporated directly into the spaces as decor, seats etc.?

As for footfall going up there, I think if the food court was directly linked in and there were variety of easy entrances, it would be used. I'm sure the workers in the Arndale tower would visit it, I think many Carbondale shoppers wouldn't mind passing through before or after maybe on route to car park. The possibility of a restaurant, bar, wheel, and observation platform both from tourists and locals would also generate some demand, whether enough to make it worthwhile I couldn't say

A perfect place for the wheel. I hate the thing, especially where it is but I can see that an elevated position overlooking Piccadilly might be the best place for it. If it was placed there, the only obstructed view would be towards the NW, the Irwell Valley and there's very little to see in that direction.

I had high hopes for the Arndale Tower after the bomb, but it's stubbornly refused to change.....the original idea of putting an illuminated glass roof on it was pretty good.

I like it!! There's nowhere else in central Manc where you could have a decent sized park and it needs one in my opinion.

The main problem would have to be what to do with all of the clutter currently on the roof but i'm sure something could be done if the will was there. You'd have to make sure that it was easily accessible and that it didn't just become somewhere for drunks and scallies to hang out.

You could even do the same with the printworks and have a footbridge linking the two.

Does anyone know if there are plans to reclad the hideous Arndale Tower?

I read in another post that it would be too expensive, it would cheaper to demolish it. It could definitely to with a clean though. Apparently there were some plans to expand the tower higher but the bomb has resulted in the tower being twisted 6in so these plans are no longer possible?
A possibility could be even to put the wheel on top of the tower if it could support the weight (300tonnes currently maybe 345 with ballast not sure but I think next year they are planning on using a 80m instead of the current 60m so would be heavier). If they did, it would have AMAZING views, not hindered by anything and provide even more space downstairs. I'm guessing wind levels or the size of weight of the wheel would make this not possible though.

Like the printwords idea and yeah the key would be to make it easily accessible or you wouldnt get many people up there.

Nice idea, spoons. I think the services on the roof would make it impractical and unless as you suggested you did the entire roof your views would predominantly be, well, roof!

It would however make for an interesting environment and certainly be a bit of a tourist attraction, as you say. I'm actually not too keen on layering pedestrian pathways on top of each other though, as it can disperse the footfall too thinly. I like a traditional mixed retail/amienities high street; tried and tested, but a little more boring than your ideas :)

Does anyone know if there are plans to reclad the hideous Arndale Tower?

There are none. Unfortunately.

I agree with you macc about the relaying pedestrian pathways over each other. I think it is much better to have quality rather than quantity so I wouldn't say to go ahead with the idea today as it could steal footfall from other areas.

I think as the city develops however and it expands in terms of size, population, wealth, tourist and business visitors it could be something to introduce with other redevelopments of the Arndale. As the city center becomes more central and more a center to the entire Greater Manchester urban area it will become more and more busy across the area.

As this occurs I think a development like this would complement and increase footfall while linking other areas rather than simply steal from streets nearby. As for space, the surface area of the building is massive, I'm sure with the right design there would be a large enough space to not make it just roof. The idea maybe radical and very different but doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't be good.

Cracking idea! But as others have said, I suspect the location of plant and services would hinder such schemes.

That wheel needs moving though, it is just a view of Manchester's air con equipment at the moment!

Maybe this thread should be renamed 'Improving the Arndale' or something. Whilst creating a public space on top of the Arndale is not really feasible, the spirit of the thread is correct. That is, improve the quality and quantity of public realm and streetscene in the central shopping core and address the problem of a consolidating highstreet shopping district and of increasingly concentrated footfall within a bland, dated enclosed mall to the detriment of the central core.

Its a big topic, an important topic and one that is worthy of debate. Anyone agree about widening the scope of this thread and perhaps renaming it?

Maybe this thread should be renamed 'Improving the Arndale' or something. Whilst creating a public space on top of the Arndale is not really feasible, the spirit of the thread is correct. That is, improve the quality and quantity of public realm and streetscene in the central shopping core and address the problem of a consolidating highstreet shopping district and of increasingly concentrated footfall within a bland, dated enclosed mall to the detriment of the central core.

Its a big topic, an important topic and one that is worthy of debate. Anyone agree about widening the scope of this thread and perhaps renaming it?

I have no objection and think it would be a good idea to widen the theme of the post to something along these lines which encompasses more of the city center aswell as covering much more feasible topics. I think there is a lot that could be discussed, I don't know how to change the name though, guessing only admins can?

Would like to say that I agree with Jonesy55 that where there is a will there is a way. I dont think the issue would be whether IF the services could be moved around but rather how much it would cost. I'd imagine it must be possible to move or even build on top of, unlike shop floors a public garden wouldn't need a flat surface and could be gently sloping pathways (might look more park like anyway). So some sort of proffesional permament scaffolding could be placed on top, its not as if it would need to support the weights of cars or vehicles. Unfortunately as much as I like the idea I think it would be difficult to make it a financially attractive concept.

We should focus energies on integrating the Arndale into the city and breaking it up as a monolithic, self contained entity. Building a public space on top of a privately owned shopping centre is not realistic economically, socially or logistically nor would it solve a lot of the problems the Arndale causes that are inherent in its present form.

We should focus energies on integrating the Arndale into the city and breaking it up as a monolithic, self contained entity. Building a public space on top of a privately owned shopping centre is not realistic economically, socially or logistically nor would it solve a lot of the problems the Arndale causes that are inherent in its present form.

No of course it wouldn't solve all the problems the Arndale creates but that doesn't mean that if the concept was feasible it should not be followed through with.

Anyway yes the Arndale does create problems as although a useful centre for many people, does due to its size have a very large impact on the city and by its nature is exclusive of the rest of the city due because of its self containment. It would be beneficial for the rest of the city if it could be more opened up and uses its pulling retail power to pull people into the rest of the city but how do you suggest that could be done?

I think one way that could encourage this is an idea by someone on the (I think retail in city centre or maybe clubs and bars) would be to develop St Anne's Square into a restaurant/bar type plaza. People go to the Arndale because its one of the easiest places to shop with so much all together. Entertainment venues like such a plaza would pull people there for other reasons which would then help shopping areas around as footfall moves to the area. As a student I know that many others have little idea of the city centre of Manchester even after living there for years. They get pulled to the Arndale because of its size, if you could use entertainment areas to entice people into areas I think shopping would be more spread around the city. I love the Anne's Square idea, right in the middle of the Royal exchange and Bartons arcade as well as close to much else but I don't know how easy it would be to make happen?

A redevelopment of the corner by BHS which has been mentioned as possibility would make it easier to open and leave the centre, which encourages people to move in and out rather than simply stay there until they have finished. Other than that the building has been built, it wont be taken down, I don't see how you could break it up much itself but at least it provides competition for the rest of the city to improve itself.

The idea of reprofiling St Anne's square is a great one. Of course it would require consensus and leadership and perhaps a forum of property owners, agents and the city council to lead on implementing it. The linked areas of King St, St Anne's Square, Cathedral St and Millennium Square offer the sort of quality of environment and urban design the equal of any shopping district anywhere in the UK. Millennium Square has a distinct offer and profile; St Anne's Square as the other 'anchor' does not. The regular markets and events are enormously successful of course but the mix and tenant profile at the square is all wrong. Something must be done. It would require hard work and committment from all parties but its perfectly achieveable.

The Arndale Problem is an entirely different matter however. Persuading a pension fund to do anything with one of its prime assets - one that is already enormously commercially successful - would be incredibly hard.

The idea scenario would be for the Market St facing side (Northern section) to be broken up with Spring Gardens, Brown St and Pall Mall all linked and effectively extended into what is at present a buff-tiled dead-end. This would link the Arndale to the wider city, encourage footfall throughout a wider area, reduce the opporessive experience of Market St, break up the centre's awful, monolithic appearance and encourage more people to spend more time in the city centre, thereby improving the viability of the whole of the central core.

The only opportunity to achieve these desirable long term ends would be in encouraging competition through developing rival high-street destinations in the city centre such as at Southern Gateway or Greeengate, the gradual emptying out of the un-developed Northern section as we are seeing already to some extent and the council to give indications that they would look favourably upon the owner redeveloping the Arndale with mixed residential / retail uses in taller discrete blocks in order to make any large-scale redevelopment a more commercially viable prospect.

Convincing the Prudential owners to redevelop the arndale would indeed be difficult. I think most people would agree that it would be better if Market Street was opened up more so that the three streets you (Sleepyone) mentioned were better utilised. Currently Market Street makes you feel forced to either enter the Arndale or walk to the end of it.

I think though that the three streets, Spring Gardens, Brown St and Pall Mall need to be improved more and made more enticing as well as linking better to Corporation Street and towards King Street so an alternative to Market Street can be realised. Moaning about the Arndale itself will not solve the issues at heart. Market Street may not look great but the other streets to the south aren't very appealing either.

Definitely agree that the streets leading off Market Street could do with improvements. It is disappointing to see that the recent developments at Brown St (H&M and Norfolk House) and Spring Gardens (Lowry House, Zenith, 40 SG) did not introduce more verticality, intimacy and a human scale to their new street-facing facades. Still, its all about little steps I guess.

I disagree with the following part of your post, however.

Moaning about the Arndale itself will not solve the issues at heart. Market Street may not look great but the other streets to the south aren't very appealing either.

The Arndale is the problem at heart. Its also the root cause of wider issues relevant to the whole of the central core. We really must start looking for practical, realistic and long term ways such as those I have outlined above to rebuild Market St and open out and reconnect the centre if the wider city centre is not to suffer from increasingly concentrated and isolated footfall within a privately owned, enclosed mall. Maybe I suffer from a lack of imagination but for me, the opening out of the Arndale is the only long term solution to some of the problems discussed on this thread.

Sorry let me rephrase, I actually didnt mean what I wrote. I meant that dealing with the Arndale ALONE will not solve the problems. A larger concerted effort must be made with its surroundings to link it all together.

I would also hope though that links to the north and east of the arndale could be made which may help the city centre expand futher. The area around Shudehill is a little dead and the Northern Quarter I think is under utilised and any movements of expanded retail presence in that direction to increase footfall and make it more lively would be welcome. Hopefully the scheme around Stevenson Square will result in a real square with some central presence to that area.

In any case I believe that with the expanding city centre population, increasing general Manchester population and its increasing wealth there will be increased footfall everywhere and so the Arndale will not simply suck up all pedestrians.

Btw I may appear dumb by asking this as you have mentioned this but what exactly do you mean by opening up Market St?

I agree with much of what you just said, the Improvements in Stevenson Sq should help the NQ, along with New Islington, the Piccadilly area and Ancoats. Not only are these areas getting better, the population is increasing- much of this localised, which will hopefully ensure lasting success.

I think the same will eventually be said of Greengate and the Southern Gateway.

The on going improvements to the streets off Market St, as to those around Piccadilly Tower (New York St and the streets off) as well as the retail elements of Spinnigfields, will spread the retail offering and footfall within the city.