saw a lot of conservation shophouses in Katong and Joo Chiat left to rot.

is there like a time limit by URA for owners to spruce up their old shophouses?

saw a lot of conservation shophouses in Katong and Joo Chiat left to rot.

is there like a time limit by URA for owners to spruce up their old shophouses?


No. not yet.

However, owners at Boat Quay & Emerald (pioneer batch) were given 5 yrs to submit plans for conversation. Thereafter, a grace period of 2 yrs to complete...

Due to back log... (of approvals) an additional 2 yr extention were given... I haven't heard of people getting fined if they were late... and I still see some undone ones to date.

For other areas like Tras / Jln Sultan / Bussorah St etc which were acquired compulsorily and auctioned off by URA... upon successful bid, buyers were given 36months to complete the restoration.

In areas like Katong & Joo Chiat and secondary / conservations areas... no such dead-lines yet... I suppose there will come a time that owners MUST do up of face acquisition.

No. not yet.

However, owners at Boat Quay & Emerald (pioneer batch) were given 5 yrs to submit plans for conversation. Thereafter, a grace period of 2 yrs to complete...

Due to back log... (of approvals) an additional 2 yr extention were given... I haven't heard of people getting fined if they were late... and I still see some undone ones to date.

For other areas like Tras / Jln Sultan / Bussorah St etc which were acquired compulsorily and auctioned off by URA... upon successful bid, buyers were given 36months to complete the restoration.

In areas like Katong & Joo Chiat and secondary / conservations areas... no such dead-lines yet... I suppose there will come a time that owners MUST do up of face acquisition.

Is it true if conservation shophouse got burnt down, the govt will also acquire it?

how much does it cost to do up a conservation shophouse nowaday?

kopiluver, you did up one before right?? how much it costs you?

Why the land acquisition?

Heritage area? Yes
Heritage buildings? Yes.
Heritage businesses? NO
Heritage feeling? NO

Is it true if conservation shophouse got burnt down, the govt will also acquire it?

how much does it cost to do up a conservation shophouse nowaday?

kopiluver, you did up one before right?? how much it costs you?

When I hear fire I smell arson. :(

Hi all, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread to post this pic. I wanted to contrast the city's skyscrapers against the conserved buildings in front. In any case, hope you all will like it.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/sonofadude/CIMG5192.jpg

Hi all, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread to post this pic. I wanted to contrast the city's skyscrapers against the conserved buildings in front. In any case, hope you all will like it.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/sonofadude/CIMG5192.jpg


Taken from Icon, is it? Can see Intl Plaza water tank.

Try going up Chinatown Plaza apts to take aerial photos of the conserved shophouses. Quite nice.

Is it true if conservation shophouse got burnt down, the govt will also acquire it??

Yes. There's some sort of law for it.

Sounds like some mafia traid ruler but it's all good!

Due to hardship during/after the war years. Rent control was instituted to prevent rich landlords from rising rents & kicking out the poor.

But if landlords set fire to kick them out, they lose land as well...

Also prevents a blackened charcoaled unit in the middle of picturesque Cecil St or Stanley St. LOL!

I've heard of owners overnight rebuild roof / wood floors / repaint!!! Just so their unit dont get aquired!!

how much does it cost to do up a conservation shophouse nowaday?

kopiluver, you did up one before right?? how much it costs you?

I did up 3 in the mid to end 90's costs me ard $200psf of build up..

I heard of certain famous Mrs Ong who did up her Emerald Hill unit ard $2M then (mid 90's) & I remembered thinking: "Whoaa! Gold taps? Toilet seats? or gold foil to wipe b*tt***s perhaps!

Today when construction cost is ard $500psf. I think ard $400psf is still achievable although some achitects will say that restoring a shophouse will be more costly than to build a new one! MAYBE! BUT NOT ALWAYS TRUE.

Beware also of architects fee.. can be 8-10% or lump sum... I heard to top-notch charging $100K-$160K then.

So I won't be surprised if today the lump sum fee can be $250K. Also beware of hidden cost. Dishonest contractors who use vague terminology in contract( Eg. in the end changed the specs for solid cherry wood to ply! Simply by leaving out the material even though it was understood that all cabinets were to be in solid wood, also final version of contract left out items although billed for them)

I can provide consultancy service to do a rebuild if anyone is worried about being cheated in their contractors, delayed in completion(couldn't move in in time for "lucky hour"), possible problems and preventive measures to be taken when rebuilding a piece of history!

I did up 3 in the mid to end 90's costs me ard $200psf of build up..

I heard of certain famous Mrs Ong who did up her Emerald Hill unit ard $2M then (mid 90's) & I remembered thinking: "Whoaa! Gold taps? Toilet seats? or gold foil to wipe b*tt***s perhaps!

Today when construction cost is ard $500psf. I think ard $400psf is still achievable although some achitects will say that restoring a shophouse will be more costly than to build a new one! MAYBE! BUT NOT ALWAYS TRUE.

Beware also of architects fee.. can be 8-10% or lump sum... I heard to top-notch charging $100K-$160K then.

So I won't be surprised if today the lump sum fee can be $250K. Also beware of hidden cost. Dishonest contractors who use vague terminology in contract( Eg. in the end changed the specs for solid cherry wood to ply! Simply by leaving out the material even though it was understood that all cabinets were to be in solid wood, also final version of contract left out items although billed for them)

I can provide consultancy service to do a rebuild if anyone is worried about being cheated in their contractors, delayed in completion(couldn't move in in time for "lucky hour"), possible problems and preventive measures to be taken when rebuilding a piece of history!

Why cost increases? shortage of equipment and labour? wood and sand more expensive?

so those super rundown shophouse at Joo Chiat/Katong going for how much psf?

Why cost increases? shortage of equipment and labour? wood and sand more expensive?

so those super rundown shophouse at Joo Chiat/Katong going for how much psf?

Ignoring cost of sand gone up 300%... I dunno the % for steel & labour & oil & wood etc... (btw notice some shophouses are wider than others? It was because they couldn't get enough mature tall trees felled and the cost for longer joists(beams) were higher exponentially!) It's called INFALTION.

Inflation rate at 7% per annum will ensure price increases ABT 100% over 10 yrs... my figures are from 1995 - 1997. It's now almost 2008 my friend...

Just curious... what was the price of the property you owned (if u dont own 1 then, maybe your parents or grandparents) in 1997 & what's the price of it now???

pm ME if you seriously looking to buy a shophouse... otherwise the action is all in Orchard / Marina Bay... but prepared to fork out $3000psf if TheSail thread is anything to go by!

Ignoring cost of sand gone up 300%... I dunno the % for steel & labour & oil & wood etc... (btw notice some shophouses are wider than others? It was because they couldn't get enough mature tall trees felled and the cost for longer joists(beams) were higher exponentially!) It's called INFALTION.

Inflation rate at 7% per annum will ensure price increases ABT 100% over 10 yrs... my figures are from 1995 - 1997. It's now almost 2008 my friend...

Just curious... what was the price of the property you owned (if u dont own 1 then, maybe your parents or grandparents) in 1997 & what's the price of it now???

pm ME if you seriously looking to buy a shophouse... otherwise the action is all in Orchard / Marina Bay... but prepared to fork out $3000psf if TheSail thread is anything to go by!

not looking for shophouse. just think it is quite cool to live in a shophouse.

rebuild now means locking in high costs forever.

not looking for shophouse. just think it is quite cool to live in a shophouse.

rebuild now means locking in high costs forever.

Don't quite understand that statement!!

But generally true if construction cost is at al time high due to demand from IRs, MBFCs, Yishun HUB, KTP hospital, downtown line etc.

But rather than keep run down, rebuild means get higher rents.

Even if done at higher psf... the total cost is under $1000psf for FH (in cases of Tg Pagar 99yrs) still much cheaper than new buildings like parkway parade, Katong SS/Mall etc.

Well living in a shophouse IS cool!

Cheers!

Don't quite understand that statement!!

But generally true if construction cost is at al time high due to demand from IRs, MBFCs, Yishun HUB, KTP hospital, downtown line etc.

But rather than keep run down, rebuild means get higher rents.

Even if done at higher psf... the total cost is under $1000psf for FH (in cases of Tg Pagar 99yrs) still much cheaper than new buildings like parkway parade, Katong SS/Mall etc.

Well living in a shophouse IS cool!

Cheers!

ya. rebuilding with high material costs means cost of shophouse is high. Need higher selling price or rental to make back money. Mkt price/rental drops means cannot recover.

High material costs means high replacement costs. Maybe it is cheaper to buy off mkt.

Maybe need to wait until construction boom over. When contractors goes bust.

Yup... which is why now prefer to look at done up units rather than undone..

Less headache, & loan up to 80%

But whichever the case... shophouse still got tremendous upside.

But disagree about waiting till construction boom over &/or contractor goes bust... cos if boom over, mkt also not there... buy cheap but no takers for rent/sale DIE!

Contontractors going bust may take ur $ 1st/along with them b4 they kaput! I'd rather they doing well & since slowing down, just tak ur job so as to keep workers busy... rebuilding is tricky business for a newbie!

Not advisable for the fainthearted!!!

Yup... which is why now prefer to look at done up units rather than undone..

Less headache, & loan up to 80%

But whichever the case... shophouse still got tremendous upside.

But disagree about waiting till construction boom over &/or contractor goes bust... cos if boom over, mkt also not there... buy cheap but no takers for rent/sale DIE!

Contontractors going bust may take ur $ 1st/along with them b4 they kaput! I'd rather they doing well & since slowing down, just tak ur job so as to keep workers busy... rebuilding is tricky business for a newbie!

Not advisable for the fainthearted!!!

What is diff between rebuilding and mkt price in psf terms? Basically asking what is profit margin for developers?

Those folks that bot those L99 URA shophouse near Sultan Mosque? Laughing all the way to bank. Units that going for $300K-400k in 03/04.

You were saying not enough mature trees to do the beams to support second floor. Must use wood? Cannot use steel? Or steel even more expensive than wood?

Heard of Legenda at Joo Chiat? It is conserved shophouse with condos behind. Those shophouse are residential or commercial? You know the pricing for those shophouses?

My goodness, gentlemen!

This is not the way historic architecture is usually discussed in this section.:ohno:

My goodness, gentlemen!

This is not the way historic architecture is usually discussed in this section.:ohno:

hee,hee...money-faced intruding into realm of arts. Better stick to The Sail thread...hahaha..

Bigbird, the fact that you opened this thread does not give you any proprietory interest in it. Kindly refrain from telling me where to post.

You can value a building, but you can't value heritage.

Sg govt forcfully acquires conserved shophouses for urban renewal, resale and restoration. Heritage building, yes. Heritage area, yes. Heritage trades? NO. Heritage feeling? NO.

Bigbird, the fact that you opened this thread does not give you any proprietory interest in it. Kindly refrain from telling me where to post.

sorry for miscomm. i am talking abt me money-faced. I should stick to The Sail thread.

sorry for miscomm. i am talking abt me money-faced. I should stick to The Sail thread.

Thanks, bigbird. I appreciate your sentiments. I replied to your previous message with a certain degree of annoyance and gathered only later that you were referring to yourself. Sorry about that.

A miscommunication indeed! :(

Yet I think you should respect and observe the prevalent forum atmosphere. I mean you no harm. It's just that I consider the Heritage and Conservation section of the Singapore forums holy territory. :angel1:

I have no money riding on any property, nor do I contemplate an investment. I'm not even in Singapore, nor am I located near that part of the world. If you read some of my posts you'll know that I'm indeed not a "money-faced" forumer but an impartial and true devotee of Singapore's glorious architectural heritage, a defender of every last remaining bit of it! :horse:

Why the land acquisition?

Heritage area? Yes
Heritage buildings? Yes.
Heritage businesses? NO
Heritage feeling? NO

Agreed. I almost bought 1 at Joo Chiat (this year) that was still on the bucket system albeit a hole that u flush with a Milo tin scooping water from a dragon urn of water... surely you not referring to Heritage 100% per se right?

hee,hee...money-faced intruding into realm of arts. Better stick to The Sail thread...hahaha..

Sure... understood this but couldn't see why SEAfan was so uptight


Thanks, bigbird. I appreciate your sentiments. I replied to your previous message with a certain degree of annoyance and gathered only later that you were referring to yourself. Sorry about that.

A miscommunication indeed! :(

Yet I think you should respect and observe the prevalent forum atmosphere. I mean you no harm. It's just that I consider the Heritage and Conservation section of the Singapore forums holy territory. :angel1:

I have no money riding on any property, nor do I contemplate an investment. I'm not even in Singapore, nor am I located near that part of the world. If you read some of my posts you'll know that I'm indeed not a "money-faced" forumer but an impartial and true devotee of Singapore's glorious architectural heritage, a defender of every last remaining bit of it! :horse:

He wasn't referring to you but I felt to the general public (despite him saying that it was about him) Still I agree that being originator does not give any1 a right ownership of thread... but I feel diplomacy is gd.. so no need to get angry... I wont be even if he said he was referring to me...

He generally asked some general knowledge questions... THose in the know just state the facts & lets leave the personality side of issues out and let's all learn fr ea other. OK?

Appreciate your interest and knighthood defender of our heritage... cheers!

Maybe we can match actions with words or ideas by converting a shophouse into a pte museum with a huge collection of stuffs from the period? Any interest?

Any collection to add? I have a SG driving licence dated 1963. Old cameras, watches, gramaphones, sewing machines, tinkat food carriers, etc used in the 60s. Any Ah Ma's or Ah Gong's stuff you wanna contribute to my future museum?

Looking for barber chair, old tin signages, Road signs, Coke collectibles etc

Agreed. I almost bought 1 at Joo Chiat (this year) that was still on the bucket system albeit a hole that u flush with a Milo tin scooping water from a dragon urn of water... surely you not referring to Heritage 100% per se right?


I'm against land acqusition. Like the demolition of half of Kg Glam in the mid 1990s and the Ellenborough Market shophouses. All the heritage trades and ambience are gone. Chinatown now feels like a giant theme park. Kampong Glam is losing its charm and traditional trades.

Conservation here is still always leaning towards commercialization. Commercialization always wins, like the 23 Amber Road house.

I'm against land acqusition. Like the demolition of half of Kg Glam in the mid 1990s and the Ellenborough Market shophouses. All the heritage trades and ambience are gone. Chinatown now feels like a giant theme park. Kampong Glam is losing its charm and traditional trades.

Conservation here is still always leaning towards commercialization. Commercialization always wins, like the 23 Amber Road house.

But aren't you glad that in return for demolishing half of Kampong Glam, we got a art-deco skyscraper called Parkview Square and some land for the DHL balloon to be based in the city? I see a trade-off for conservation versus modernization.

I see it that the land acquisition in Singapore was necessary in the 60s and 70s (maybe 80s), in helping it build up an efficient city centre. Today of course the thinking and standards are so different I would be very surprised if shophouses are still being acquired when the authorities are mow promoting them as 'heritage'.

Admittedly the land where the DHL Balloon sits on has been vacant for so long, so mighht not be nice to acquire and then leave it empty. Why was it acquired? Bugis MRT? Anyway the DHL Balloon is just a temporary operation...

Admittedly the land where the DHL Balloon sits on has been vacant for so long, so mighht not be nice to acquire and then leave it empty. Why was it acquired? Bugis MRT? Anyway the DHL Balloon is just a temporary operation...

Wasn't it one of those pieces of land that was unsellable because of bad feng shui? ^ ^

LOL if you are talking about the 'feng shui' parcel it is the one next to Parkview Square which is going on offer in June this year.

Of course they could turn it into a park at the expense of lost gains to the reserves!

LOL if you are talking about the 'feng shui' parcel it is the one next to Parkview Square which is going on offer in June this year.

Of course they could turn it into a park at the expense of lost gains to the reserves!

From what I've seen, the knifes of Gateway are pointing towards 2 old streets of Kg Glam (now demolished). It's bad feng shui to have a road running into your house, so the knife is there to repel it. :P