http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2353/todosqc1.jpg

Equitorial Guinea richer than Argentina? I've always found their figures ridiculously exagerated, perhaps its government giving false statistics? Or is that the only pics I've seen are unbelievably unreflective of this country? Good to see Botswana with such high figures, same goes with the usual tiny island prospects.

btw off topic how do I get the table to show? I copied and pasted its properties and only the link appeared. Help would be appreciated.

And here's the thread where I got the table from http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=536126 their are more stats and figures but most pertain to Latin America. You can also see those exclusive to Africa on the IMF website.

It may be richer on paper (and with their leaders) but Equatorial Guinea is still a poor nation, when looking at living standards and other issues. A horrible case of how corruption keeps a country down even when they are blessed.

If you think that's something, I have seen figures say that the Per-capita income there is now above $50k.

It may be richer on paper (and with their leaders) but Equatorial Guinea is still a poor nation, when looking at living standards and other issues. A horrible case of how corruption keeps a country down even when they are blessed.

If you think that's something, I have seen figures say that the Per-capita income there is now above $50k.

Not sure if its still there but the 50k figure was used in the CIA world factbook, making it the second richest country in the world! They should just omit this nation from the stats, because you won't provide a realistic figure.

Funny how some people that hold up Western institutions and their statistics as the most credible and trustworthy at the same time look for excusues when it comes to "certain" African countries that they don´t want to see improve. Festinger´s theory of "cognitive dissonance arousal" has been verified repeatedly!

Weird!

In the meantime, allow me to cite one of Dantexaviers´s earlier posts.

(...)

But I recently took a look at the HDI stats for Eq. Guinea. The country ranks at 120. Now, that isn't great, but that ranking also puts it ahead of places like India or Pakistan, both of which are considered modern "asian tigers"(or something close to that) today. Then you must consider where Eq. Guinea used to be with regards to HDI:

Human development index, 1985 0.484
Human development index, 1990 0.501
Human development index, 1995 0.519
Human development index, 2000 0.643
Human development index, 2004 0.653

1995: .519
2004: .653

That is A LOT of imnprovement in just about a decade! Clearly, a lot of good actually has been done there after all.

I think we can be somewhat more optimisitic about the country from now on. I know I will be.

The HDI for 2007 will certainly be even higher than that of Botswna.

Despite high level of corruption and an autocratic regime (which I don´t like), the country has put away big foreign exchange resserves and it has no foreign debts (!!!), The country´s growth is expected to reach more than 20% this year. (due to oil secor and above all billions of public investments).

Le chiffre du jour


La Guinée équatoriale va renouer cette année avec un taux de croissance du Produit intérieur brut (PIB) de plus de 20% grâce à la production de gaz et de pétrole, selon des prévisions gouvernementales publiées vendredi. "Le taux de croissance est de 21,5% en 2007", a annoncé le comité monétaire et financier du ministère des Finances dans un communiqué diffusé à la télévision publique.
"Ce résultat s'explique par l'augmentation de la production de gaz et de pétrole et par la poursuite de la construction des infrastructures publiques", a ajouté ce comité, présidé par le ministre des Finances et du Budget Marcelino Owono Edu.

La Guinée équatoriale, 3e producteur de brut d'Afrique subsaharienne, bénéficie également du prix élevé du baril.

La croissance équato-guinéenne, caractérisée par des taux à deux chiffres après le boom pétrolier des années 1990, a frôlé les 30% en 2004 avant de ralentir au-dessous des 10% les deux années suivantes.
Ces fortes hausses n'ont toutefois jusqu'ici profité qu'à une petite partie de la population.

Publié le 5 octobre 2007.

And surprisngly, since the real investmenst has started about 2-3 years back, the Western media stopped reporting from that little country....but Western businessmen don´t shy away to make money there. Surprisngly, good/better news from Africa never sells!

Here is the latest update to the IMF database
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2007/02/weodata/index.aspx

and here is the part of the IMF document, released today, that is most relevent to Africa.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2007/02/pdf/c2.pdf
go to page 28.

Funny how some people that hold up Western institutions and their statistics as the most credible and trustworthy at the same time look for excusues when it comes to "certain" African countries that they don´t want to see improve. Festinger´s theory of "cognitive dissonance arousal" has been verified repeatedly!



You noticed that too?..Amazing.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2353/todosqc1.jpg

Equitorial Guinea richer than Argentina? I've always found their figures ridiculously exagerated, perhaps its government giving false statistics? Or is that the only pics I've seen are unbelievably unreflective of this country? Good to see Botswana with such high figures, same goes with the usual tiny island prospects.

btw off topic how do I get the table to show? I copied and pasted its properties and only the link appeared. Help would be appreciated.
The nerve of you to question IMF only when it does not suit your archaic world view.

The nerve of you to question IMF only when it does not suit your archaic world view.

I don't question the IMF, I question the figures they are given. You don't find it funny that the richest nation in Africa is ranked 120th with regards to HDI?! It isn't out of the ordinary that oil based nations have lower HDI rankings than their per capita figures imply, but the gap is extraordinary to say the least.

Shall we see the threads on Malabo? Seriously I don't even know why your only singling me out, I wasn't the only one that doubts their figures. Racist! Racist! Racist! :lol:

Including all countries
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2353/todosqc1.jpg

Alex Roney, let me tell you something although I am sure the information won´t enter your brain cells!

When oil was first discovered in Equatorial Guinea in the early 90´s, the country was in a very unfavourable condition. Almost 95% of the oil profits went back to the major oil companies (which were and still are all AMERICAN, btw). The contracts they signed were very disadvantageous for the country. In the course of the years, Equatorial Guinea re-negogitiated the initial deals and increased their local content. They established a national oil company (GEPETROL) in the meantime and more and more of the profits start to flow back to the country.

Has it escaped your mind how Western powers tried to topple the regimea couple of years back? Mark Thatcher who lived in a villa in Cape Town and who is the son of "fine-mannered" former English president Maggie Thatcher was heavily involved in it!! Guess who was behind it as well: the opposition that is living in the Spain and which is supported by Spain.
The consequence of the whole was that the UK lost billions of dollars in deals that went to the Chinese although they were destined for the British! (These are not fairy tales I am telling you but documented facts by African and Western political scientist). I am happy that their dirty plot failed, it is a sign for me that Western powers can no longer walk into Africa and recklessly plot governements easily as they did in the past. TIMES HAVE CHANGED!

Apart from that, Equatorial Guinea started from a very low position, sucked dry and penniless by years of really very brutal and blood-thirsty dictatorship.
Public investmenst has started to flow just a few years back. Close to $1.5 billion are invested this year alone into material and social infrastructure (it is a lot for this small country, the highest figure ever for this country): regional multi-lane highways on the mainland and the island of Bioko are u/c. (read it in Francophone press). A new city is built out of nowhere (Malabo II), including new hospitals, new schools a university and surprisingly a lot of social housing. Equatorial Guinea has started to work closely together with UN instituions. (you never hear of this side of Equatorial Guinea epecially in the Anglophone press although their companies are still the ones that are reaping enormous profits from the oil and gas)
Equatorial Guinea started with the export of LNG gas recently, too.

Don´t forget that the country is debt-free (it never amassed debts during its boom times) and has steadily growing foreign exchange resserves.


It might sound ridiculous but when you are a small oil-rich country in Africa you don´t have many "true" friends, if you knwo what I am alluding to...

As for the HDI: whether you like it or not, you can see an improvement! A sharp improvement within a decade. (why are you unswervingly trying to look for exceptions although the data is from Western institutions, the ones that you put your confidence into - given the numbers of rankings that you have bombared us with). I checked the HDI figures and Equatorial Guinea is even better rated than Botswana.
Look at older HDI figures of Oman in the early/mid 80´s, oil was discovered there in 1970 (Oman has not even a tenth of the oil resserves of its ultra-rich neigbours like the UAE or Kuwait). Social indicators were very poor at that time for Oman, even 10-15 years after the discovery of oil...look at the social figures today: an undeniably sharp rise!!!:)
The same will be the case for Equatorial Guinea, the HDI is rising continously and it will certainly top the 0.7 mark in about 5-10 years! So don´t look at the absolute numbers but the relative improvement the country has made so far.


As for the pics that we have seen, we don´t know who has taken the pics, open-minded or people that only wanted to see the misery, the more recent pics that have come out of Equatorial Guinea show a country that finally seems to be on the right track (despite hurdles remaining in the field of corruption). Bata looks generally nice and orderly.:) ...and Malabo isn´t looking as bad as it once did!
Unfortunately, the country is not investing a cent into marketing to polish up the country´s image, something which other autocratic governments are doing with success! But , let´s wait what the future will do once the material infratsructure is completed.

I know that Obiahg Nguéma is not a saint , far from it, but PLEASE there is also another side of the coin that we seldom hear or see about! So please no double standards! Thank you!:)

Equatorial Guinea Launches LNG Project

by Obafemi Oredein Dow Jones Newswires Thursday, October 18, 2007


IBADAN, Nigeria, Oct. 18, 2007 (Dow Jones Newswire)

The Equatorial Guinea liquefied natural gas, or EG LNG, project has been formally launched at a ceremony in Malabo, the country's capital, Radio Nigeria reported.

It said the launch Wednesday was attended by Presidents Umaru Yar`adua of Nigeria, John Kufour of Ghana and Frederico Menendez of Sao Tome and Principe.

The $1.5 billion EG LNG plant, which has a 3.4 million tons per annum capacity, was built on the northwest side of Bioko Island at Punta Europe, near Malabo. It made its first shipment to the U.S. in May 2007.

Ken Woodworth, EG LNG managing director said at the launch that the plant was completed six months ahead of schedule and within budget. He said that with Train 1 in place, the company would supply 3.4 million tons of LNG per annum to BG Gas Marketing Ltd for the next 17 years.

"It is our hope that this train will be a catalyst for the development of future trains for EG LNG, further raising Equatorial Guinea's standing among the world's LNG producing countries," Woodworth said.

Clarence Cazalot, president of U.S.-headquartered Marathon Oil Corp. (MRO) said work on the plant had set a new standard with which future worldwide LNG projects would be judged.

Marathon Oil Corp. which owns 60% of the shares in the project and the other EG LNG shareholders commenced preliminary construction of the Train 1 project in December 2003. Equatorial Guinea has an estimated reserve of 30 trillion cubic feet of gas.

The gas for Train1 is sourced from the Alba field in Equatorial Guinea. A second train is currently being considered which will rely on gas being transported from Cameroon and Nigeria.

Shareholders of EG LNG are Marathon with 60% equity shares, Equatorial Guinea's Sonagas, 25%, Japan's Mitsui Co (8031.TO) 8.5% and Marubeni Gas Development Co, a wholly owned subsidiary of Marubeni Corporation of Japan (MARUY) , 6.5%

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=51653

Alex Roney, let me tell you something although I am sure the information won´t enter your brain cells!

When oil was first discovered in Equatorial Guinea in the early 90´s, the country was in a very unfavourable condition. Almost 95% of the oil profits went back to the major oil companies (which were and still are all AMERICAN, btw). The contracts they signed were very disadvantageous for the country. In the course of the years, Equatorial Guinea re-negogitiated the initial deals and increased their local content. They established a national oil company (GEPETROL) in the meantime and more and more of the profits start to flow back to the country.

Has it escaped your mind how Western powers tried to topple the regimea couple of years back? Mark Thatcher who lived in a villa in Cape Town and who is the son of "fine-mannered" former English president Maggie Thatcher was heavily involved in it!! Guess who was behind it as well: the opposition that is living in the Spain and which is supported by Spain.
The consequence of the whole was that the UK lost billions of dollars in deals that went to the Chinese although they were destined for the British! (These are not fairy tales I am telling you but documented facts by African and Western political scientist). I am happy that their dirty plot failed, it is a sign for me that Western powers can no longer walk into Africa and recklessly plot governements easily as they did in the past. TIMES HAVE CHANGED!

Apart from that, Equatorial Guinea started from a very low position, sucked dry and penniless by years of really very brutal and blood-thirsty dictatorship.
Public investmenst has started to flow just a few years back. Close to $1.5 billion are invested this year alone into material and social infrastructure (it is a lot for this small country, the highest figure ever for this country): regional multi-lane highways on the mainland and the island of Bioko are u/c. (read it in Francophone press). A new city is built out of nowhere (Malabo II), including new hospitals, new schools a university and surprisingly a lot of social housing. Equatorial Guinea has started to work closely together with UN instituions. (you never hear of this side of Equatorial Guinea epecially in the Anglophone press although their companies are still the ones that are reaping enormous profits from the oil and gas)
Equatorial Guinea started with the export of LNG gas recently, too.

Don´t forget that the country is debt-free (it never amassed debts during its boom times) and has steadily growing foreign exchange resserves.


It might sound ridiculous but when you are a small oil-rich country in Africa you don´t have many "true" friends, if you knwo what I am alluding to...

As for the HDI: whether you like it or not, you can see an improvement! A sharp improvement within a decade. (why are you unswervingly trying to look for exceptions although the data is from Western institutions, the ones that you put your confidence into - given the numbers of rankings that you have bombared us with). I checked the HDI figures and Equatorial Guinea is even better rated than Botswana.
Look at older HDI figures of Oman in the early/mid 80´s, oil was discovered there in 1970 (Oman has not even a tenth of the oil resserves of its ultra-rich neigbours like the UAE or Kuwait). Social indicators were very poor at that time for Oman, even 10-15 years after the discovery of oil...look at the social figures today: an undeniably sharp rise!!!:)
The same will be the case for Equatorial Guinea, the HDI is rising continously and it will certainly top the 0.7 mark in about 5-10 years! So don´t look at the absolute numbers but the relative improvement the country has made so far.


As for the pics that we have seen, we don´t know who has taken the pics, open-minded or people that only wanted to see the misery, the more recent pics that have come out of Equatorial Guinea show a country that finally seems to be on the right track (despite hurdles remaining in the field of corruption). Bata looks generally nice and orderly.:) ...and Malabo isn´t looking as bad as it once did!
Unfortunately, the country is not investing a cent into marketing to polish up the country´s image, something which other autocratic governments are doing with success! But , let´s wait what the future will do once the material infratsructure is completed.

I know that Obiahg Nguéma is not a saint , far from it, but PLEASE there is also another side of the coin that we seldom hear or see about! So please no double standards! Thank you!:)

Again, you are completely missing the point. I'm not contesting ONE BIT that Equatorial Guinea is progressing!!! All I'm saying is that those figures of a 19,000 gdp per capita are absolutely ridiculous!! Your giving me excuses and reasons to why their poor, but your not explaining to me the reasoning behind such an unusually high gdp figure. If the average citizen had a 20,000 dollar purchasing power I gurantee you they wouldn't rank 120 in HDI. This isn't rocket science its plain common sense.

Lets face the reality that this is a poor and corrupt government that manipulates figures. To be considered "developed" a nation needs to reach .800 in the HDI , Equitorial Guinea is at .650 relative to Brazil's poorest state.

The nerve of you to question IMF only when it does not suit your archaic world view.

What do you expect, Alex Roney is an Italian, all you have to do is put on some Serie A football to see how they feel about black people. :ohno:

What do you expect, Alex Roney is an Italian, all you have to do is put on some Serie A football to see how they feel about black people. :ohno:

I'm Italian now? Damn I thought I was a white Sout African? :lol: Another pull of the race card, how sad yet predictable....

I get a big kick out of those who have nothing to add or counter but pointless "racist" jabs.

Infact the Naijalove is a racist, because he singled me out due to my whiteness!! Ten stated the same thing yet nothing directed at him? It must be because he's black. lol Seriously thats how stupid you sound, except my statement has a reason that is backed up.

Again, you are completely missing the point. I'm not contesting ONE BIT that Equatorial Guinea is progressing!!! All I'm saying is that those figures of a 19,000 gdp per capita are absolutely ridiculous!! Your giving me excuses and reasons to why their poor, but your not explaining to me the reasoning behind such an unusually high gdp figure. If the average citizen had a 20,000 dollar purchasing power I gurantee you they wouldn't rank 120 in HDI. This isn't rocket science its plain common sense.

Lets face the reality that this is a poor and corrupt government that manipulates figures. To be considered "developed" a nation needs to reach .800 in the HDI , Equitorial Guinea is at .650 relative to Brazil's poorest state.

AGAIN READ C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y what I said, if you had done so, you would not have answered the way you did!

AND I DIDN´T SAY THAT EQUATORIAL GUINEA IS A "DEVLOPPED" NATION...only that it made social improvement as documented in the HDI Index and that it is undergoing a current construction boom (oh yes, serious newspapers and magazines like "le monde" and "jeune afrique" will surely invent all these stories)!


Moreover, you first tell us that numbers collected by international institutions are false and at the same time you take them as a reference to point out that Equatorial Guinea is just like "Brazil´s poorest state"
I thought the numbers are incorrect, so why take them to draw comparisons?

Damn, talking to you is like running around in circles! You simply don´t want to understand!

AGAIN READ C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y what I said, if you had done so, you would not have answered the way you did!

AND I DIDN´T SAY THAT EQUATORIAL GUINEA IS A "DEVLOPPED" NATION...only that it made social improvement as documented in the HDI Index and that it is undergoing a current construction boom (oh yes, serious newspapers and magazines like "le monde" and "jeune afrique" will surely invent all these stories)!


Moreover, you first tell us that numbers collected by international institutions are false and at the same time you take them as a reference to point out that Equatorial Guinea is just like "Brazil´s poorest state"
I thought the numbers are incorrect, so why take them to draw comparisons?

Damn, talking to you is like running around in circles! You simply don´t want to understand!

It must go both ways because if you had read what I said then perhaps you wouldn't go off topic about how much they've improved. This issue is soley on their GDP per capita!

Again where in the blue hell do I say it isn't improving? Where do I contest what those magaizines stated.

First off, data such as HDI which takes into account literacy and life expectancy among other things is taken by the U.N. Those are studies that are actually done by international orginizations. Also considering their history, corrupt government and images of this nation it isn't that hard to see their poor ranking in HDI. Again how is it that such a supposed "wealthy" nation fails so miserably in all other fields. A middle class nation which has a very low life expectancy and literacy. It completely contradicts itself. You don't find it odd that in some institutions this country as a 50k per capita? Thats as wealthy as Luxembourg! Than theirs a drastic change to 19,000?

You know those figures are incorrect, because you only like to address issues when on paper things portray Africa in a negative light. This does the opposite but unfortunately is very far from being true.

It must go both ways because if you had read what I said then perhaps you wouldn't go off topic about how much they've improved. This issue is soley on their GDP per capita!

Again where in the blue hell do I say it isn't improving? Where do I contest what those magaizines stated.

You have said directly and indirectly, I can read and interpret message correctly! Even your continuous insistence on the country being "rooten" and bad shows me your attitude.

First off, data such as HDI which takes into account literacy and life expectancy among other things is taken by the U.N. Those are studies that are actually done by international orginizations. Also considering their history, corrupt government and images of this nation it isn't that hard to see their poor ranking in HDI. Again how is it that such a supposed "wealthy" nation fails so miserably in all other fields. A middle class nation which has a very low life expectancy and literacy. It completely contradicts itself. You don't find it odd that in some institutions this country as a 50k per capita? Thats as wealthy as Luxembourg! Than theirs a drastic change to 19,000?

HDI takes more into account than just life expectancy and lieracy?
Again you are trying to look for exceptions by telling all figures are false because of its history. Well, maybe Equatorial Guinea´s HDI is not 0.65 "something" but just 0.32. People die at the age of 20, aids rates is close to 90% and literacy rates are below 5%, the dicators eats up all his money for desert and criticizes the West for the country´s misery! and so on and so forth...if this response makes you happy and gives you an orgasm, so BE IT!

You know those figures are incorrect, because you only like to address issues when on paper things portray Africa in a negative light. This does the opposite but unfortunately is very far from being true.

Point answered above!

Matthias

responding to Alex's mails is a waste of your precious time. People like Alex come to these forumns to tell us how rotten we Africans are compared to how great Europeans like him are. You are just beating a dead horse hear. Take my earlier advice, ignore his thrash, then he will be able to speak to ignorant people like him. Igbo Warrior has said it very well.

I believe EG has that high a GDP/capita. This is exactly the reason why GDP/capita is an inaccurate measure of a nation's people's wealth. It's distorted, in EG's case, by the fact that the population is tiny, yet it stumbled on HUGE oil deposits. This automatically skewed the figures by lots of zeros LOL.
A more accurate index to measure how the average person is doing is the HDI. That is computed using several factors such as access to education, health care, infant mortality, etc.
I don't know why everyone is jumping on Alex Rooney, his point is valid. I sense a gang mentally on this forum sometimes. :ohno:

Not sure if its still there but the 50k figure was used in the CIA world factbook, making it the second richest country in the world! They should just omit this nation from the stats, because you won't provide a realistic figure.

They might as well. As long as those gangsters rule that nation, it's still going to paint a wrong picture. I remember seeing a video about EG. It's not rich, or it's not as rich as it can be.

Seriously, another reason why corruption keeps Africa down.

It's too bad too...Equatorial Guinea was poised to become the "Kuwait of Africa".

I believe EG has that high a GDP/capita. This is exactly the reason why GDP/capita is an inaccurate measure of a nation's people's wealth. It's distorted, in EG's case, by the fact that the population is tiny, yet it stumbled on HUGE oil deposits. This automatically skewed the figures by lots of zeros LOL.
A more accurate index to measure how the average person is doing is the HDI. That is computed using several factors such as access to education, health care, infant mortality, etc.
I don't know why everyone is jumping on Alex Rooney, his point is valid. I sense a gang mentally on this forum sometimes.


Abesha, I am not saying that Equatorial Guinea is "developped", far from it. All what we are seeing is a continuos improvement in its HDI figures and that physical infrastructure is getting constructed. Social indicators could certainly be better.

I gave the example of Oman where Alex and Co didn´t want to respond to! Oman today and Oman in th early 80´s: small population high GDP per head but relatively miserable HDI INDEX, at least a large discrepancy. (still more than 10 years after the discovery of oil). Why? because Oman put the emphaisiS on the construction of infrastructure first before it embarking on massive social spanding which led to a rise in its HDI Index.
This can most likely happen with Equatorial Guinea, too. The economy might continue to grow for a while, growth will slwo down and the HDI will most likely catch up!

Yes, HDI Index is more accurate than GDP per head but it is not "perfect"! It doesn´t tell the whole social picture of a country. (as most of the economies in Africa are informal!!!). Many other measurements have been invented in the meantime.

What Alex is trying to say is that all is crap, the figures of UN institutions are false for Equatorial Guinea, the country is utterly poor, everyone lives on 50 cent a month (except the president and his entourage).....this is too short-sighted and one-dimensional, in my view. There is another side to the coin as well that I have explained in my lenghty monologues!

I will be searching for personal blogs about what people that live in Equatorial Guinea have to say!

I am dead sure that some of you are applauding Mark Thatcher and his gang for trying to topple the government like in the "good old" days of the Empire. ...Well, with such menatlities Africa´s will surely succeed in the future!

They might as well. As long as those gangsters rule that nation, it's still going to paint a wrong picture. I remember seeing a video about EG. It's not rich, or it's not as rich as it can be.

Seriously, another reason why corruption keeps Africa down.

It's too bad too...Equatorial Guinea was poised to become the "Kuwait of Africa".

:ohno::ohno:You don´t want to read or at least try to understand it, even some of the africans among you!

Ok. Then simply SO WHY DON´T WE RECOLONIZE EQUATORIAL GUINEA BRING BACK THE SPANISH AND THE WHITEMEN TO RULE...This is what all the talk more or less boils down to

IDIOTS!!!!:bash::bash::bash:

I'm Italian now? Damn I thought I was a white Sout African? :lol: Another pull of the race card, how sad yet predictable....

I get a big kick out of those who have nothing to add or counter but pointless "racist" jabs.

Infact the Naijalove is a racist, because he singled me out due to my whiteness!! Ten stated the same thing yet nothing directed at him? It must be because he's black. lol Seriously thats how stupid you sound, except my statement has a reason that is backed up.

It's obvious your not liked here, so why do you persist...get the message and buzz off! :bash:

:ohno::ohno:You don´t want to read or at least try to understand it, even some of the africans among you!

Ok. Then simply SO WHY DON´T WE RECOLONIZE EQUATORIAL GUINEA BRING BACK THE SPANISH AND THE WHITEMEN TO RULE...This is what all the talk more or less boils down to

IDIOTS!!!!:bash::bash::bash:



Did I say Equatorial Guinea needs to re-colonized? No way.

EG has high resources, and a small population. That is a two things going for it to become a rich, developed nation. But it is not. It is country which does get a lot of revenue, but most of it goes into the pockets of the politicians and not the people.

There can be as much developments going on in that country, who cares if it's not benefitting the people as much as it can? I hope for the best, but for a country with this much potential but I have no sympathy for the current situation at all.

And it's not even a democratic issue. The rulers of the Gulf nations in the Middle East may not let their citizens vote, but at least they help their people!

Seriously, does this look like a country where the average GDP per-capita is $50,000?

Malabo should be Africa's Dubai. But it's not. It's not reaching it's potential thanks to idiocy.

http://www.bisila.com/DATOS/malabo3.jpg

Did I say Equatorial Guinea needs to re-colonized? No way.

EG has high resources, and a small population. That is a two things going for it to become a rich, developed nation. But it is not. It is country which does get a lot of revenue, but most of it goes into the pockets of the politicians and not the people.

There can be as much developments going on in that country, who cares if it's not benefitting the people as much as it can? I hope for the best, but for a country with this much potential but I have no sympathy for the current situation at all.

And it's not even a democratic issue. The rulers of the Gulf nations in the Middle East may not let their citizens vote, but at least they help their people!

Seriously, does this look like a country where the average GDP per-capita is $50,000?

Malabo should be Africa's Dubai. But it's not. It's not reaching it's potential thanks to idiocy.

http://www.bisila.com/DATOS/malabo3.jpg

You know that’s the quickest way to lose credibility with your readers. You know just as well as I do, that there are some beautiful parts of EG.

Well, of course. My point however is that it's not as good as it should be. :sly:

If you are so concerned about my "credibility", look it up yourself. Look up all the stories about the massive corruption and money laundering activities of the politicians there.

I'm hope for the best for Equatorial Guinea and all African countries...anyone who has read my posts in the past know that I'm no pessimist. But that doesn't mean I think they can't do no wrong...

Frankly Matthias, you seem to pick up fights with anyone who even shows hints of critical thinking on this forum. Why is that? We should be able to discuss the good, the bad and the in-between of the countries on this continent without getting bashed.
Why do you lose your temper so easily???

It must go both ways because if you had read what I said then perhaps you wouldn't go off topic about how much they've improved. This issue is soley on their GDP per capita!



You have said directly and indirectly, I can read and interpret message correctly! Even your continuous insistence on the country being "rooten" and bad shows me your attitude.


HDI takes more into account than just life expectancy and lieracy?
Again you are trying to look for exceptions by telling all figures are false because of its history. Well, maybe Equatorial Guinea´s HDI is not 0.65 "something" but just 0.32. People die at the age of 20, aids rates is close to 90% and literacy rates are below 5%, the dicators eats up all his money for desert and criticizes the West for the country´s misery! and so on and so forth...if this response makes you happy and gives you an orgasm, so BE IT!


Point answered above!

You see thats the problem, your basing things on assumptions rather than concrete facts. According to you I "indirectly" implied something, if thats the case then I apologize. My sole preocupation is in what I believe is manipulated or simply flawed gdp per capita data. Its that simple.

HDI takes other aspects into account but gdp per capita, literacy and life expectancy are the three main/broad factors. Well their HDI is .653 so if they gdp per capita really is 19,000 dollars than those other indicators must be the worst in the world to bring it down so much. The reality is less dramatic, because their gdp is alot lower.

Why would I have an orgasm over human suffering? You think I haven't seen or experienced dire poverty? I've dislocated my shoulder doing community service to people who are less fortunate than me, the fact that you insinuate that I hold a sick sadistic mentality to this is sad in itself.

It's obvious your not liked here, so why do you persist...get the message and buzz off! :bash:

I'm not liked by you, theirs a difference. I personally get on well with many other members, those who can take in and respect a difference of opinion. You sir are a narrow minded bigot.

Btw here's from the BBC

Country profile: Equatorial Guinea

Since independence in 1968, Equatorial Guinea has been ruled by two men - from the same family - who have been described by a variety of human rights organisations as among the worst abusers of human rights in Africa.
In recent years the former Spanish colony has become one of sub-Saharan Africa's biggest oil producers.


Large oil and gas deposits were discovered off Bioko in the mid-1990s and their exploitation has driven spectacular growth. In 2004 Equatorial Guinea had the world's fastest-growing economy.
AT-A-GLANCE
Politics: President Obiang seized power in 1979; rights groups have condemned his rule as one Africa's most brutal; he faces a "government in exile" and a separatist movement
Economy: Equatorial Guinea is sub-Saharan Africa's third biggest oil producer
International: Equatorial Guinea and Gabon are in dispute over islands in potentially oil-rich off-shore waters


Timeline
But few people have benefited from the oil riches and the country ranks near the bottom of a UN human development index. The government has started a scheme to divert a share of oil revenues into social projects.

The corruption watchdog Transparency International has put Equatorial Guinea in the top 10 of its list of corrupt states. Despite calls for more transparency in the sector, President Obiang has said oil revenues are a state secret.

In 1996 Equatorial Guinea's first multi-party presidential election was held amid reports of widespread fraud and irregularities, returning President Obiang Nguema with 99% of the vote.

His government has been accused of widespread human rights abuses and of suppressing political opposition. A government-in-exile has been formed by opposition leaders living in exile in Spain; President Obiang accused its leader of sponsoring a failed coup in 2004.

Equatorial Guinea's territory includes the island of Bioko, off the Cameroonian coast, which hosts the capital, Malabo.

In the 1970s it became notorious when the widespread human rights abuses of President Francisco Nguema caused a third of the population to flee.

Full name: The Republic of Equatorial Guinea
Population: 521,000 (UN, 2005)
Capital: Malabo
Area: 28,051 sq km (10,830 sq miles)
Major languages: Spanish, French
Major religion: Christianity
Life expectancy: 43 years (men), 44 years (women) (UN)
Monetary unit: 1 CFA (Communaute Financiere Africaine) franc = 100 centimes
Main exports: Petroleum, timber, cocoa
GNI per capita: US $930 (World Bank, 2001) Internet domain: .gq
International dialling code: +240

Frankly Matthias, you seem to pick up fights with anyone who even shows hints of critical thinking on this forum. Why is that? We should be able to discuss the good, the bad and the in-between of the countries on this continent without getting bashed.
Why do you lose your temper so easily???

Critical thinking? I opened a thread on Guinea-Conakry, I was accused of showing only the negative, although I just showed the pics that I found it ended up closed and deleted!

I don´t like people that come around to only point to the negative all the time. Africa has had a very bad past, I think we could aggree on this, right? It desserves a better future and it will get a better future.


I have no problems to find many bad pictures about Africa: it is damn easy! I could bombard the net with those! But no , I don´t: I look for the postive , for the positive economic news, for sports, for music, for city and construction projects....for all that captures the spirit of the new Africa (even if the majority of the people don´t believe in it, I do, it is rising)...you think that I look throug a rose-tinted nose? No, I am fully aware of the other Africa and it even frustrates me alot but nevertheless I stick to its positive protrayal .

What are Africans themselves doing to get this continent a better image? Very little, if we are honest.

I think that SSC is a forum where people can see and cherish the other side of Africa: the fresh, the new and the dynamic side. Our continent is so versatile and interesting, so can´t we leave out the negative, (there are 99,99% of all the other forum out there that are already discussing the negative). Can´t we simply focus on the other side of the coin?

I have also grown a bit angry of the so-called "Africans" that are living abroad, they claim to love Africa and be proud of "their" continent but when it comes to positive portrayals, they are quick to jump in and point out that all is not like that! The Africans that are living abroad are no longer Africans: they have become estranged to their country or continent of origin! (And I don´t mean "estranged" by listing to Western music, going shopping in malls and wearing western dress, it has a deeper meaning that I am alluding to) You know, I know Nigerians in London that were born in Britain and have never ever set foot on Nigeria throughout their lives. But when you ask them they say: "Oh yes, I am a proud African, I love my country!" Which country please?

I could go on and on but I will cut it off here.





I'm not liked by you, theirs a difference. I personally get on well with many other members, those who can take in and respect a difference of opinion. You sir are a narrow minded bigot.

Alex Roney,Leave Igbowarror alone, he is ceratinly NOT "a narrow-minded bigot"! It is you who is that!

ALL WHAT YOU ARE HERE FOR IS TO POINT OUT AFRICA´S NEGATIVE ALL THE TIME!!!! When someone comes up with projects when did you respond to those in a positive or interested way? Moreover, I chatted with a couple of Brazilians on SSC per PM and they all said to me that you are not Brazilian! They don´t know you.



Did I say Equatorial Guinea needs to re-colonized? No way.

Well, why not this country will "NEVER EVER MAKE IT" . So bring back the Spanish or whomever

EG has high resources, and a small population. That is a two things going for it to become a rich, developed nation. But it is not. It is country which does get a lot of revenue, but most of it goes into the pockets of the politicians and not the people.

There can be as much developments going on in that country, who cares if it's not benefitting the people as much as it can? I hope for the best, but for a country with this much potential but I have no sympathy for the current situation at all.

Have you ever read my longer posts? Have you taken an effort to understand them? Be sincere.

And it's not even a democratic issue. The rulers of the Gulf nations in the Middle East may not let their citizens vote, but at least they help their people!

Seriously, does this look like a country where the average GDP per-capita is $50,000?

Malabo should be Africa's Dubai. But it's not. It's not reaching it's potential thanks to idiocy.

Africa´s Dubai and all the bla bla. Malabo is [B]not Dubai. Does every nation has to look like Dubai if it has oil??

THE UAE SITS ON ALMOST 100 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL! SAME FOR KUWAIT. (Equatorial Guinea has just 2 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL, at it´s current stage, more discoveries are most likely) Oil exploration started in in the 50´s for Kuwait and in the late 60´s for the UAE.
Moreover, menatality from Dubai people has always been different, they have always been business-minded, smart and clever merchants long before the discovery of oil started. If you had visited Dubai museum, you would see what I mean!
Dubai also profits from Iran instability! I don´t you if you are aware of the fact that $300BN of Iranian capital has been invested into Dubai alone! Don´t you think that Dubai is a money-laundering paradise as well? Don´t be so terribly naive!
Dubai is not Malabo! So stop to compare both cities and countries. Malabo is Africa, an African city, and Dubai is the Arabian Gulf!

And as for the picture: when was it taken? I have told you that the true public investmenst has started there about a couple of years back, this year the country is investing huge sums of money into road -construction, sewage systems and new social housing etc, ALL DONE BY THE CHINESE and no longer by the Brits and Spanish that wanted the building contracts at all costs!

If roads gets built first, even highways that link the cities, isn´t that the first step to the improvement of its citizens?:bash: Of course, it is not enough but it is a step showing in the right direction.

I ALSO TOLD YOU THAT THE COUNTRY IS NOT AMASSING ANY DEBTS TO FINANCE ITS DEVELOPMENT!

What do you expect? Do you think that the president goes around carelessly by distributing to every citizen a house and a Porsche for free? Sorry, what kind of mentality is this??

I told you that schools and hospitals get built as well but the focus is still laid upon material infrastructure...it will shift in the coming years more and more to the social infrastructure. (I gave you the example of Oman which you don´t seem willing to understand). I gave you the reasons why Equatorial Guinea had a difficult start

And as Igbo Warior said, you know that there are other and nicer places in Malabo than this picture...that this pic is old, most probably taken in 2002, a time when no public investmenst worthy of note was made.

Moreover, what are the citizens themselves doing to keep the city neat and proper??? People in Equatorial Guinea don´t seem to be so business-minded and always on the move, brimming with new ideas, in short: they are definitely no merchants, they lack this certain menatlity! If you had given the country to the Igbos with all the wealth and just 500 000 Igbos, the country would have been entirely transformed by now, same for the Chinese or Dubai people. BUSINESS-MINDED MENTALITY plays a vital role in a country adavancing! You could have the best leadership in the world if the people are unwilling to support it!

before people start to accuse me of supporting Obiang, No I am NOT, I also said that I am a perfectly aware of EQG´s bad leadership (high level of corruption) and that it could move even much faster but that there is also another side to the coin that things are beginning to move in the right direction (construction which are first signy of benfits for the people) and that it still has a long way to go. EQG was faced with enormous internal and external difficulties at the beginning, I have informed myself about it.

I'm sorry but this forum is turning into a joke. Matthias, a forum is place where people can discuss whatever they want to. Where in the rules does it state that people HAVE to speak about the positive?

I honestly think that that the number of positive threads far outweigh the negative ones, but let a negative one come up and you get on your high horse about it!


I have also grown a bit angry of the so-called "Africans" that are living abroad, they claim to love Africa and be proud of "their" continent but when it comes to positive portrayals, they are quick to jump in and point out that all is not like that! The Africans that are living abroad are no longer Africans: they have become estranged to their country or continent of origin!

Prove it. You keep coming up with baseless arguments. SHOW ME proof and then I will believe you. There is a BIG difference between being realistic and being negative. Africa HAS PROBLEMS and being in denial is not going to get them solved. You yourself state here that they are quick to point out that it is not like that, so if "it" is not like that then what is wrong with speaking the truth?



Quote:
Did I say Equatorial Guinea needs to re-colonized? No way.
Well, why not this country will "NEVER EVER MAKE IT" . So bring back the Spanish or whomever

Once again you are twisting people's words. No where did Alex say that the
"Spanish of whomever" should come back, yet somehow you manage to make yourself believe that this is what he is implying.

Africa´s Dubai and all the bla bla. Malabo is not Dubai. Does every nation has to look like Dubai if it has oil??

If you honestly think this then I've given up all hope. NO ONE SAID THIS! All it was meant as is a comparison. Dubai is extremely successful..do you not want Malabo to be successful? You're clutching at straws.

And lastly...
Moreover, I chatted with a couple of Brazilians on SSC per PM and they all said to me that you are not Brazilian! They don´t know you.

:lol: That made my day. Because some random people don't know Alex he's officially not Brazillian. That just proves the absolute nonsense going through your mind. You're believing what you want to believe.


I think you need to get over yourself. Not everyone is like you (thankfully) which is the entire point of the forum. You need to stop jumping down peoples' throats for stating minor negatives and live up to the facts for once.

Lydon, I am longer on this forum than you, from its early creation. I have and read enough proof. Even the recent posts are proof enough!

Lydon, Alex roney, and Co. I am - as always - the "bad guy" with baseless arguments, derailing threads, messing up everything, looking through rose-tinted spectacles and so on and so forth, just because I don´t use bloated words or go the diplomatic way with evil motives behind my back like "you".... You single out aspects and you take them out of their larger picture/out of the context!
Although it was me (together with a couple of other very active memebers, of course) who has massively contributed to filling up the threads with so many information from the early days of this forum, I ask myself what is really worth it??? I am investing my time into thread creation that is of no interest to anybody because the only fruit I get is that of disdain, misunderstanding and reprimand! Certain people have their mindsets that they simply can´t overcome. You are even trying to twist my words cleverly so that I take the rope to hang up myself, figuratively speaking!


Once again you are twisting people's words. No where did Alex say that the
"Spanish of whomever" should come back, yet somehow you manage to make yourself believe that this is what he is implying.

Lydon and Co, it was anger, sarcasm and irony towards certain people, that´s why I said it! I know how certain white people tick...they don´t trust black Africans to govern a country properly! I don´t have to proof it to you, you can read, see it and observe it in the media, in daily situations, almost everywhere......the message is conveyed directly and in a psychologically well-crafted subliminal fashion.
Moreover, Look at the bigger picture, the context of how some people argue on this thread, read between the lines, the tactics some use to bring forward arguments. Why are there only Namibia (a white-run country with gigantic social disproprotions), South Africa and Botswana, the only countries that "are of hope" in Africa? You people simply don´t want to see countries run by black people, that´s the point! Your lack of understanding towards the rest of Africa and its problems is inherent, it is ingrained into your psyche. You inwardly know it, be fair to yourself, at least once and stand up to your reality!
You people are always quick to point out the negative, when did you or any other White South African (sorry to use it again, I knwo that I am a "racist", so who cares?) come up with a meaningful contribution to our sub-forum? How many of who are here to say "this and that" is going wrong in Africa? Don´t you think we are aware of Africa´s problems!? I am fully aware of what goes wrong but I try to see the larger picture!

Talking about Africa´s problems is realy very easy: looking for projects, for good news, for nice photos, for events, for music, for Africans that are pushing the continent in a positive way etc.. is a wholly different story. Can´t it enter your brain cells, for Heaven´s sake?:bash:

People from other forum come to the forum and get reinforced in their century-old prejudices on Africa. I DON´T WANT THIS!!!!! THAT´S WHY I AM SEARCHING FOR THE OTHER AFRICA, THE AFRICA PEOPLE DON´T EXPECT WHEN THEY VISIT THE FORUM!. And you won´t deter me from it, no matter what evil-minded startegy you and your folks come up with in the future!

Guys lets back to the topic at hand, how about commending, discussing or criticizing some of the stats in the respective countries. If not might as well just lock this thread. I've already lost 10 points on my i.q to this stupid bickering.

I have also grown a bit angry of the so-called "Africans" that are living abroad, they claim to love Africa and be proud of "their" continent but when it comes to positive portrayals, they are quick to jump in and point out that all is not like that! The Africans that are living abroad are no longer Africans: they have become estranged to their country or continent of origin! (And I don´t mean "estranged" by listing to Western music, going shopping in malls and wearing western dress, it has a deeper meaning that I am alluding to) You know, I know Nigerians in London that were born in Britain and have never ever set foot on Nigeria throughout their lives. But when you ask them they say: "Oh yes, I am a proud African, I love my country!" Which country please?

I could go on and on but I will cut it off here.


Hilarious. :hilarious

My family and I contribute about $15,000 to help our only direct relatives in Somalia left. If it wasn't for our money...they would likely be homeless. I don't need to be told by anyone that I'm not African. I was born there and I have been there twice ever since. What have you done?

I'm probably more critical and negative across my OWN country than the other African countries combined. But that doesn't mean I am not proud of it. I love Somalia, and I love Africa.

Because I don't agree with what's going on in Equatorial Guinea, I'm a bigot?



Alex Roney,Leave Igbowarror alone, he is ceratinly NOT "a narrow-minded bigot"! It is you who is that!

ALL WHAT YOU ARE HERE FOR IS TO POINT OUT AFRICA´S NEGATIVE ALL THE TIME!!!! When someone comes up with projects when did you respond to those in a positive or interested way? Moreover, I chatted with a couple of Brazilians on SSC per PM and they all said to me that you are not Brazilian! They don´t know you.

I don't believe that Alex Roney is a bigot, and neither you or IgboWarrior. Nobody here is one, we all are forumers interested in the development of Africa, nothing more...nothing less. But, this is a discussion. People have different opinions.

Personally, if a Brazilian or whatever nationality is coming here...that's fantastic. If more foreign forumers came to this forum, probably they would know more about Africa. Knowledge about Africa is nil in most forums here.


Africa´s Dubai and all the bla bla. Malabo is [B]not Dubai. Does every nation has to look like Dubai if it has oil??

THE UAE SITS ON ALMOST 100 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL! SAME FOR KUWAIT. (Equatorial Guinea has just 2 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL, at it´s current stage, more discoveries are most likely) Oil exploration started in in the 50´s for Kuwait and in the late 60´s for the UAE.
Moreover, menatality from Dubai people has always been different, they have always been business-minded, smart and clever merchants long before the discovery of oil started. If you had visited Dubai museum, you would see what I mean!
Dubai also profits from Iran instability! I don´t you if you are aware of the fact that $300BN of Iranian capital has been invested into Dubai alone! Don´t you think that Dubai is a money-laundering paradise as well? Don´t be so terribly naive!
Dubai is not Malabo! So stop to compare both cities and countries. Malabo is Africa, an African city, and Dubai is the Arabian Gulf!

Well, why can't we compare it to Dubai?

Like it, it has a large amount of resources with a small population. And it could have more oil than expected (the whole Gulf of Guinea is still quite unexplored compared to the Gulf in the Middle East).

Equatorial Guinea has had proven oil reserves for a while now. It also did start with a good base...after independence, it had one of the highest per-capita incomes and literacy rates. But it has fallen behind even though it should have been destined to be an African tiger. Because of crap leadership and massive corruption.

Dubai was NOTHING 40 years ago. My father lived there when he was young for a while...when he visited in 2000, he was speechless. The leaders there, even with their faults and pitfalls, have used their oil money to benefit the citizens and development. There is not much corruption there. They were obviously more forward-thinking and selfless compared to the Oligarchy in Equatorial Guinea, which were more concerned about making money for themselves at the time only.



And as for the picture: when was it taken? I have told you that the true public investmenst has started there about a couple of years back, this year the country is investing huge sums of money into road -construction, sewage systems and new social housing etc, ALL DONE BY THE CHINESE and no longer by the Brits and Spanish that wanted the building contracts at all costs!

If roads gets built first, even highways that link the cities, isn´t that the first step to the improvement of its citizens?:bash: Of course, it is not enough but it is a step showing in the right direction.

And as Igbo Warior said, you know that there are other and nicer places in Malabo than this picture...that this pic is old, most probably taken in 2002, a time when no public investmenst worthy of note was made.

I told you that schools and hospitals get built as well but the focus is still laid upon material infrastructure...it will shift in the coming years more and more to the social infrastructure. (I gave you the example of Oman which you don´t seem willing to understand). I gave you the reasons why Equatorial Guinea had a difficult start


It was taken in Malabo. I don't where actually, or when. But it was one of the first pictures I found when I googled "Malabo" up. I'm sure it's better now, but it would be ridiculous to think it's unrecognizable in just a matter of years.

I hope that it does get better in the future, I don't know how much times I have to repeat that. Hopefully it is in the right direction. But I'm not going to be delusional and think about their current issues holding them back.


What do you expect? Do you think that the president goes around carelessly by distributing to every citizen a house and a Porsche for free? Sorry, what kind of mentality is this??

No. But is the status quo better? :sly:




before people start to accuse me of supporting Obiang, No I am NOT, I also said that I am a perfectly aware of EQG´s bad leadership (high level of corruption) and that it could move even much faster but that there is also another side to the coin that things are beginning to move in the right direction (construction which are first signy of benfits for the people) and that it still has a long way to go. EQG was faced with enormous internal and external difficulties at the beginning, I have informed myself about it.

I don't think you are a Obiang supporter at all. I just think you believe that we are all pessimists. I am NOT. But you can't be over optimistic looking at the past when it comes to that country. I consider myself a realist, BTW.

Lydon, I am longer on this forum than you, from its early creation. I have and read enough proof. Even the recent posts are proof enough!

Lydon, Alex roney, and Co. I am - as always - the "bad guy" with baseless arguments, derailing threads, messing up everything, looking through rose-tinted spectacles and so on and so forth, just because I don´t use bloated words or go the diplomatic way with evil motives behind my back like "you".... You single out aspects and you take them out of their larger picture/out of the context!
Although it was me (together with a couple of other very active memebers, of course) who has massively contributed to filling up the threads with so many information from the early days of this forum, I ask myself what is really worth it??? I am investing my time into thread creation that is of no interest to anybody because the only fruit I get is that of disdain, misunderstanding and reprimand! Certain people have their mindsets that they simply can´t overcome. You are even trying to twist my words cleverly so that I take the rope to hang up myself, figuratively speaking!




Lydon and Co, it was anger, sarcasm and irony towards certain people, that´s why I said it! I know how certain white people tick...they don´t trust black Africans to govern a country properly! I don´t have to proof it to you, you can read, see it and observe it in the media, in daily situations, almost everywhere......the message is conveyed directly and in a psychologically well-crafted subliminal fashion.
Moreover, Look at the bigger picture, the context of how some people argue on this thread, read between the lines, the tactics some use to bring forward arguments. Why are there only Namibia (a white-run country with gigantic social disproprotions), South Africa and Botswana, the only countries that "are of hope" in Africa? You people simply don´t want to see countries run by black people, that´s the point! Your lack of understanding towards the rest of Africa and its problems is inherent, it is ingrained into your psyche. You inwardly know it, be fair to yourself, at least once and stand up to your reality!
You people are always quick to point out the negative, when did you or any other White South African (sorry to use it again, I knwo that I am a "racist", so who cares?) come up with a meaningful contribution to our sub-forum? How many of who are here to say "this and that" is going wrong in Africa? Don´t you think we are aware of Africa´s problems!? I am fully aware of what goes wrong but I try to see the larger picture!

Talking about Africa´s problems is realy very easy: looking for projects, for good news, for nice photos, for events, for music, for Africans that are pushing the continent in a positive way etc.. is a wholly different story. Can´t it enter your brain cells, for Heaven´s sake?:bash:

People from other forum come to the forum and get reinforced in their century-old prejudices on Africa. I DON´T WANT THIS!!!!! THAT´S WHY I AM SEARCHING FOR THE OTHER AFRICA, THE AFRICA PEOPLE DON´T EXPECT WHEN THEY VISIT THE FORUM!. And you won´t deter me from it, no matter what evil-minded startegy you and your folks come up with in the future!

Firstly...the fact that you have been "longer on this forum" proves absolutely nothing. I have been viewing this forum for a mighty long time, just not posting until recently.

Secondly, ONCE AGAIN you pull the race card and mix it with BASELESS arguments! "I know how certain white people tick...they don´t trust black Africans to govern a country properly! I don´t have to proof it to you, you can read, see it and observe it in the media, in daily situations, almost everywhere.....[B].the message is conveyed directly and in a psychologically well-crafted subliminal fashion." You have absolutely no proof to back up this argument. It's laughable how you try to tell me that I don't trust my black government. It is so ironic how you constantly say white people dislike black people, white South Africans hate Nigerians etc. when in face it is YOU...yes YOU who constantly discriminates against us! You manage to twist peoples' words time and again and still have the utter nerve to tell us that we are those in the wrong.

Prove to me that I don't trust our government by showing me the posts I have made and then we'll talk.

And you won´t deter me from it, no matter what evil-minded startegy you and your folks come up with in the future! The only one causing problems here is you. Let anyone say a SINGLE thing you don't agree with and you immediately go on the war path against them. You want proof? Go have a look over at the Lucky Dube thread how you tried to turn it into a war zone until you were eventually told to mind your own business.

You people are always quick to point out the negative, when did you or any other White South African (sorry to use it again, I knwo that I am a "racist", so who cares?) come up with a meaningful contribution to our sub-forum? How many of who are here to say "this and that" is going wrong in Africa? Don´t you think we are aware of Africa´s problems!? I am fully aware of what goes wrong but I try to see the larger picture!

Yes, you are a racist, and I care. I have made attempt after attempt at making contributions towards this sub-forum but time and again it is you who manages to turn something positive into a negative. You have this preconceived notion that everyone is out to get you...well guess what...I've got FAR better things to worry about than you and your crap.

The only way to get this forum back on track is to STOP ARGUING. I have absolutely no intention of being negative or hating other countries, yet you seem to think I do for some bizarre reason still unknown to me. Stop the hating and the hating towards you will be stopped in return.

Proof of your baseless assumptions:

Someone posts this:

RIP :ohno:

The thing is South Africa is a violent place, but the only reason why statistically they are considered one of the most violent places on earth is that they actually keep records. Most real poor countries do not, so while SA gets stick for violence their are plenty of other nations in continent worse off.

And gets this reply:

My "dear" Mr Alex Roney, Oh yes, of course....all the "darkness" outside of SA...Africans are so "savage"......and most probably the muder was committed by a Nigerian pimp that is out there to destroy SA, is that the South African conclusion to the story?
As long as you keep denying that SA has a big problem with crime which is a direct result of your country´s horrible past and not (just) of immigrants flooding into SA, you will continue to get huuuge problems back home.

Note the random added facts to the original quote such as ""darkness" outside of SA"; "Africans are so "savage" and "As long as you keep denying that SA has a big problem with crime". Note the irony in the denial. We are allowed to admit that South Africa has its problems yet the rest of Africa's problems shouldn't be discussed. None of this was said yet good ol' Matthias manages to believe someone did.

You don´t take an effort to understand me, you don´t want to look at the larger context!!!

..and Lydon and Co jumps up on the bandwagon, happy to kick my ass while twisting the true meaning of my words!

I just leave it like it is:

Yes, you are right: Equatorial Guinea is a rotten, hopelessly poor African country, everybody lives on 50cent a day except the presidents that eats oil money while thousands of people are starving or are tortured to death in prison, numbers are fake because it is Africa, it is a basket case, look at Dubai and look at Malabo...and all the superficial and one-sided blabla...Everything is so fucked up but "TIA" (=This is africa). Happy now?

And yes, all my argumenst are baseless, I am ONLY here to derail threads ( I am just a racist, narrow-minded bigot, a pervert, a fool and in idiot!)

Alex Roney, Lydon and Co are the ones to be given 100% credit, they have Africa at heart!

So cancel my name from SCC, please! I am done and fed up!

Yay glad we got that sorted out!

But seriously...please grow up. Let's just put this behind us and move on...

I hate to break it to you guys but if mattias goes, this forum is gonna literally die.

But anyways, Rome wasnt built in a day (and neither was dubai) so give E. Guinea another 20 years for it to sort out its corruption problems and what not and you'll see the HDI figures catch up with the GDP per capita figures.

I hate to break it to you guys but if mattias goes, this forum is gonna literally die.

But anyways, Rome wasnt built in a day (and neither was dubai) so give E. Guinea another 20 years for it to sort out its corruption problems and what not and you'll see the HDI figures catch up with the GDP per capita figures.

Thats the whole issue, the gap between gdp per capita and HDI is impossibly too big. Or 1% of the population owns 95% of the wealth making it the nation with largest income inequality on the planet. The reality isn't that extreme, a more realistic possibility is simply that their gdp per capita is 1/4 of whats shown on paper.

I hate to break it to you guys but if mattias goes, this forum is gonna literally die.

But anyways, Rome wasnt built in a day (and neither was dubai) so give E. Guinea another 20 years for it to sort out its corruption problems and what not and you'll see the HDI figures catch up with the GDP per capita figures.

I never said that he should leave.

His contributions in this forum since the beginning have been heavily appreciated.

Yes, I agree. No one said he should leave.

Some people would languish in happiness if matthias left.:bash: we all know who they are and their intentions. Anyway Dont give them the pleasure i say matthias! And as someone said, this forums would be practically dead without him.

Some people would languish in happiness if matthias left.:bash: we all know who they are and their intentions. Anyway Dont give them the pleasure i say matthias! And as someone said, this forums would be practically dead without him.

As yourself this, as anyone asked him to leave? As anyone directly or indirectly implied this? He's completely making something bigger than it actually is giving off fits and random outbursts.

Anyways back on topic....

Well, of course. My point however is that it's not as good as it should be. :sly:

If you are so concerned about my "credibility", look it up yourself. Look up all the stories about the massive corruption and money laundering activities of the politicians there.

I'm hope for the best for Equatorial Guinea and all African countries...anyone who has read my posts in the past know that I'm no pessimist. But that doesn't mean I think they can't do no wrong...

Stop being so pedantic! Yes...we all agree there was and still are some major issues accredited to EQ. But ‘our’ point, the point being made is pertaining development, which is being made, don’t you agree?

[QUOTE=Alex Roney;16022273]As yourself this, as anyone asked him to leave? As anyone directly or indirectly implied this? He's completely making something bigger than it actually is giving off fits and random outbursts.

QUOTE]

^^fits and random outbursts that is laughable my friend. Next!

[QUOTE=Alex Roney;16022273]As yourself this, as anyone asked him to leave? As anyone directly or indirectly implied this? He's completely making something bigger than it actually is giving off fits and random outbursts.

QUOTE]


^^fits and random outbursts that is laughable my friend. Next!

What do you call what just happened in this thread? lol

Lol I think this is a battle that no one is going to win at this rate :P

Lol I think this is a battle that no one is going to win at this rate :P

Yeah I feel stupid in just participating and lowering myself to that level. I thereby declare an end to my involvment. :cheers:

You guys are hilarious but I must admit very passionate about Africa. We just need to listen to each other's view point and not jump to conclusion. Some see the glass half full while others see it as being half empty. Its no doubt that Africa has challenges and without the SSC I wouldnt have known such beautiful places existed in Africa. Its not really bad talking about the negatives but I think it ought to be taken into context; not to bash each other but to promote discourse in an effort to turn those negativity into positives.

You guys are hilarious but I must admit very passionate about Africa. We just need to listen to each other's view point and not jump to conclusion. Some see the glass half full while others see it as being half empty. Its no doubt that Africa has challenges and without the SSC I wouldnt have known such beautiful places existed in Africa. Its not really bad talking about the negatives but I think it ought to be taken into context; not to bash each other but to promote discourse in an effort to turn those negativity into positives.

:applause:

shut the fcuk up already!

OK then...that was strange ^

Anyways... What about Botswana eh? Over 17,000 pas mal de tout. :)

I actually believe that the fits and outbursts as you refer to them Alex, are only from you and that puppet that seems to lurk behind you disguising its true intentions. Needless to say, it’s pathetic and therefore, unacceptable.

We all know that people like these would suck the African forums dry if they had the chance to with their bitterly critical attacks on peaceful Africans who are here trying to contribute in showing the positives of our beloved continent.

To Lydon a selfless word of advice to you it is you’re prerogative to take it or leave it. Have you heard of internalized racism? Well i think you might be a victim of it, you may disagree or live in denial but a cursory look at your past postings again on this forums just confirms my conviction of you and the attitude you seem to so uphold. Levelheaded criticisms with no bias are the way to go in my opinion. Be aware that it is never too late to wean yourself of. Good luck. No pun intended.

Anyway, i have had enough of this already and i am not going to engage in this discussion any further i hardly have time to waste on such petty issues. Therefore, lets get back on topic, as there are other important things at hand.:cheers:

I actually believe that the fits and outbursts as you refer to them Alex, are only from you and that puppet that seems to lurk behind you disguising its true intentions. Needless to say, it’s pathetic and therefore, unacceptable.

We all know that people like these would suck the African forums dry if they had the chance to with their bitterly critical attacks on peaceful Africans who are here trying to contribute in showing the positives of our beloved continent.

To Lydon a selfless word of advice to you it is you’re prerogative to take it or leave it. Have you heard of internalized racism? Well i think you might be a victim of it, you may disagree or live in denial but a cursory look at your past postings again on this forums just confirms my conviction of you and the attitude you seem to so uphold. Levelheaded criticisms with no bias are the way to go in my opinion. Be aware that it is never too late to wean yourself of. Good luck. No pun intended.

Anyway, i have had enough of this already and i am not going to engage in this discussion any further i hardly have time to waste on such petty issues. Therefore, lets get back on topic, as there are other important things at hand.:cheers:

Whatever your entitled to your opinion no mater how distorted it actually is.

Am not here to pick fights with people and you hardly know me so just get back to the topic.

LMFAO! Please...oh please...tell me where I showed signs of internalized racism? xD Time and again I have asked why on earth race keeps coming up in this forum so please share where this one fell out of...

LMFAO! Please...oh please...tell me where I showed signs of internalized racism? xD Time and again I have asked why on earth race keeps coming up in this forum so please share where this one fell out of...

It's genetic your white so your immidietly a pre disposed racist. On top of that your a South African, so your not only racist but evil as well.

I'm white so I'm a racist but not a South African, making me ignorant and not evil like you.

^^ As i said earlier you dont know who i am so, Get back on topic FFS! :ohno:

It's genetic your white so your immidietly a pre disposed racist. On top of that your a South African, so your not only racist but evil as well.

I'm white so I'm a racist but not a South African, making me ignorant and not evil like you.

Oh yes of course...I forgot that us whites are all evil and hate black people. Excuse my moment of madness :nuts:

It's genetic your white so your immidietly a pre disposed racist. On top of that your a South African, so your not only racist but evil as well.

I'm white so I'm a racist but not a South African, making me ignorant and not evil like you.

Haha i wouldn't be surprised if Matthias had a poster on his wall with that on it - in whichever Western European country he's living in. It is like a complete breakdown of the mentality he and his cronies rely on.

Now i will sit and wait for an emotively written attack from Matthias and/or his cronies detailing my 'internalized' (lmao) racism. This is because i am a 'White' South African, which Matthias constantly has to remind himself of, sad. Since you are so concerned about everyone's cultural backgrounds and where they come from, so that you can base your own fairytale opinions about them, where do you come from?? which Western European country do you live in? Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway?? Please humour us, and again portray to us your immense knowledge and social ties to Africa, even tho u don't live there, probably haven't been there in many years, and probably don't intend to.
And ofcourse the fact that we actually live in Africa and have to experience the day to day hardships of this continent means nothing, for we are not allowed to criticize it, we must be grateful. I'm sure you are also shit-scared to walk the dog, or just leave your house in general in that horrible, white filled, racist scum Western European country you're currently residing in. And because of that you can so easily identify the problems in Africa and so easily brush them aside.

You really are a joke.

Haha i wouldn't be surprised if Matthias had a poster on his wall with that on it - in whichever Western European country he's living in. It is like a complete breakdown of the mentality he and his cronies rely on.

Now i will sit and wait for an emotively written attack from Matthias and/or his cronies detailing my 'internalized' (lmao) racism. This is because i am a 'White' South African, which Matthias constantly has to remind himself of, sad. Since you are so concerned about everyone's cultural backgrounds and where they come from, so that you can base your own fairytale opinions about them, where do you come from?? which Western European country do you live in? Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway?? Please humour us, and again portray to us your immense knowledge and social ties to Africa, even tho u don't live there, probably haven't been there in many years, and probably don't intend to.
And ofcourse the fact that we actually live in Africa and have to experience the day to day hardships of this continent means nothing, for we are not allowed to criticize it, we must be grateful. I'm sure you are also shit-scared to walk the dog, or just leave your house in general in that horrible, white filled, racist scum Western European country you're currently residing in. And because of that you can so easily identify the problems in Africa and so easily brush them aside.

You really are a joke.



I am basking in the glow of your kind and deeply sincere words! What a pleasure! Thanks awfully!:)

I am basking in the glow of your kind and deeply sincere words! What a pleasure! Thanks awfully!:)

Don't mention it.
Please note all (white) South Africans (and any other white person for that matter), whenever Matthias tries to degrade you with his racist and idiotic comments, just remind him that he is in fact living happily with the evil colonist (ie. white) enemies that he despises that have 'raped Africa's wealth' and are infact to blame for all Africa's problems.

Meanwhile us real Africans will go on living the struggle, and frankly we don't wanna hear any of the bullshit that comes out of your mouth - unless it is constructive and is able to take criticism, which clearly it isn't. So please sod off to do whatever it is you do in that fabulous White ruled country of yours.

Don't mention it.
Please note all (white) South Africans (and any other white person for that matter), whenever Matthias tries to degrade you with his racist and idiotic comments, just remind him that he is in fact living happily with the evil colonist (ie. white) enemies that he despises that have 'raped Africa's wealth' and are infact to blame for all Africa's problems.

Meanwhile us real Africans will go on living the struggle, and frankly we don't wanna hear any of the bullshit that comes out of your mouth - unless it is constructive and is able to take criticism, which clearly it isn't. So please sod off to do whatever it is you do in that fabulous White ruled country of yours.

Look Inertia,You force me to reply....your must be a person that runs on very low batteries.

I don´t know what you are talking about. Have you taken your medicine today?

How many times have I said that I have abosolutely nothing against white people, if this were the case I wouldn´t study in a "white-ruled" country as you said.
Moreover, you claim that I come up with baseless arguments but what you say is absolute bullshit! You bulge with horrid accusations and finger-pointing that you accuse other people of, just like me and the other Naija "cronies" as you said above. What do you know about me? Nothing and nada...all springs from your sick& wicked small-minded Boer imagination. Moreover, you might inwardly feel ashamed of living in Africa which your sentence reveals: "So please sod off to do whatever it is you do in that fabulous White ruled country of yours."

Onnnnnccccceee Again, so that it can enter your brain cells, I have nothing against white people. I am just not fond of the white South Africans as a whole, most probably there are some exceptions but I haven´t met them so far.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE i SAID THIS????????

The reasons of my dislike are mutiple so simply swallow it becaue you will fail to convince me of the opposite no matter what strategy you apply!

Moreover,.... me not criticizing Africa? I only said like a parrot that we should portray the positive side of Africa on this webpage something which you are your folks don´t want to understand. Although there are bad sides, not all is bad and things are shifting into the right direction. BUTTON IT!:bash:

I am perfectly aware of what goes wrong and right in Africa and I am even critical. (see some of my threads like the one on responsible city municipalties and civic associations in Africa cities)

and if life is so "terrible"; if life is so filled with "daily hardships" in SA as you imply, why don´t you leave the country and follow the one million white people that made up their mind to look for greener pastures elsewhere already? There are white South africans colonies in OZ, Canada and the UK, people ranting about how "cruel" and "savage" Africans are and romanticizing about the "jolly old times" of apartheid where everything was so "ordered and well-structured". Ohh, I have forgotten you are the only real African...so cut me out!:lol::bash:

Stop provoking me! OK.

As opposed to you I am more real African that you will ever become in your life. I have a quintessential aspect that you lack. I have "black blood" running through my veins (and this doesn´t change if I am studying abroad or not)...You are a white African, an "adopted" African. Your forefathers are European.

Moreover, you said that I don´t intend to return to Africa, what a joke! You know nothing about me and my aspirations and my projects. So it is you who should "sod off to do whatever it is you do in that (still) fabulous White ruled country of yours!" Okpoh!

Matthias aren't you half white? So along with black "African" blood you have "white" as well. Being black doesn't make you more African than anybody, whether their mixed, white, brown or black. Same goes for those in Europe whose nationalistic fevor places people in superficial groups on how "British" or "French" they are. If your born, raised and consider yourself something, thats who you are. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY OTHERWISE!

Matthias aren't you half white? So along with black "African" blood you have "white" as well. Being black doesn't make you more African than anybody, whether their mixed, white, brown or black. Same goes for those in Europe whose nationalistic fevor places people in superficial groups on how "British" or "French" they are. If your born, raised and consider yourself something, thats who you are. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY OTHERWISE!

Look, SA has learned to live with these classifications and this is the only way how they were exposed to perceive and understand the world. (as a whole). It was them who systemically measured people according to their noses, skins, hairs etc. They even went as far as to classify between the Whites too, namely those of British and Dutch descent. British Whites were considered to be "better and more civilized" than the Boers.


If your born, raised and consider yourself something, thats who you are. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY OTHERWISE!

If you had followed my postings attentively , you would know that this is also my fiirm conviction. I am a huge fan of muti-ethnic and racial societies. A country where different cultures meet and peacefully interact without suppresing each other is always more interesting and appealing than a country where there is only one culture (if such a country still exists in today´s world is highly questionable).

Aah yes the emotional attack that i was waiting for, you certainly don't disappoint Matthias. However i have seemed to provoke the more racist nature in you, something that i was hoping to come across. Well i'd just like to thank you for confirming mine and everyone else's 'suspicions'. Again you rant about stuff that was never said, and ofcourse avoid the stuff that actually was said.

It just still amazes me how a non-African European can sit on his high horse in some Western European country and declare what us Africans must and must not feel. How dare you tell me how to live my life in Africa. For one, it is not easy to leave the country, and secondly I would never desert my African country like you have.. O wait you probably even haven't visited Africa, but instead know of it only in photo's. Yet you sit there in your White-controlled fabulous (note the sarcasm, something you should look up in the white mans dictionary) country and recoil in horror when we describe life in Africa as something very different to your White controlled fabulous Western European country. I'm sure everything must be great there, no poverty, no crime, no racism directed towards you (although im sure you direct it whenver you can), and can't imagine what us African's are whining about.
Well sir, you can frankly fuck off. Go do whatever you do in your Western European country and like i've said before, leave Africa to the Africans.

Aah yes the emotional attack that i was waiting for, you certainly don't disappoint Matthias. However i have seemed to provoke the more racist nature in you, something that i was hoping to come across. Well i'd just like to thank you for confirming mine and everyone else's 'suspicions'. Again you rant about stuff that was never said, and ofcourse avoid the stuff that actually was said.

It just still amazes me how a non-African European can sit on his high horse in some Western European country and declare what us Africans must and must not feel. How dare you tell me how to live my life in Africa. For one, it is not easy to leave the country, and secondly I would never desert my African country like you have.. O wait you probably even haven't visited Africa, but instead know of it only in photo's. Yet you sit there in your White-controlled fabulous (note the sarcasm, something you should look up in the white mans dictionary) country and recoil in horror when we describe life in Africa as something very different to your White controlled fabulous Western European country. I'm sure everything must be great there, no poverty, no crime, no racism directed towards you (although im sure you direct it whenver you can), and can't imagine what us African's are whining about.
Well sir, you can frankly fuck off. Go do whatever you do in your Western European country and like i've said before, leave Africa to the Africans.

Billyboy, you never seem to understand ..all you see to revelin is twisting words and making the paths slippery for others....but that´s just "typically" of a stupid White South African like you...uppss, have I used the word again, uuupps, I am SA hater and at least I don´t conceal it which makes me beter than you pisshole...uupps have I ranted again, well, at least this time i did it with pleasure! So p*** ***, coakroach!

How many times have I said that I have abosolutely nothing against white people

....but that´s just "typically" of a stupid White South African like you

Spot the difference :banana:

ok can you people direct your concerns to the main topic of discussion instead of one race bashing the other and vice versa?

Onnnnnccccceee Again, so that it can enter your brain cells, I have nothing against white people. I am just not fond of the white South Africans as a whole, most probably there are some exceptions but I haven´t met them so far.


but that´s just "typically" of a stupid White South African like you...uppss, have I used the word again, uuupps, I am SA hater and at least I don´t conceal it which makes me beter than you pisshole...

:ohno: That's sad.

Lydon & Inertia, this will hopefully be my last entry and reply to silly provocations raised by "white" South Africans! Uuupss, I said it again but I don´t care!

, I have nothing against white people means against white people in general, especially those with an open mind or at least those trying to understand "the other". (this doesn´t include the white people of SA, the only white race I totally and completly reject).

All what you are saying here, your entire presence throughout the years have shown into one single direction: that of degrading other African countries, looking for provocations, apply your psychologically devilish strategies to mislead people, turning up on our forum in disguise (Claiming that you are froman X and Y nation who has Africa at heart and so on and so forth)

We could go on and on discussing this but it will lead to nowhere, the more you write, the more convinced and resolved I become in my firm conviction that I hold on you.

What has your constructive contribution to our sub-forum been so far? Have you searched for projects, have you shown any form of sincere interest in our sub-forum? Your presence sums up in provoking other people incessantly (even threads that run well, you enter to destroy them with your provocation and lecturing (see the "Southern Africa Development File"), a thread dedicated to urban development is littered with your accusations. Your are absolutely shameless, at least for me, we will never be able to speak on friendly terms. Yes, I have lost myself in frequent outburst of temper, too, but I think that nobody can deny that I have not been looking for projects (which are hard to find), news, photos, information from personal blogs etc. for a very long time now with an aim, namely to portray Africa in a positive light or just like it really is, something that you people seem to feel uneasy about. I have not been uncritical about Africa (I am fully aware of its wrongs and rights) and even raised threads what can be done to improve things on the ground. But their is a difference of being negatively thinking or callous bashing, on the one hand, and positively critical, on the other hand.

Yes, you are currently living and studying in Africa. So, you are certainly "better" than me and the majority of our forumers who currently dwell abroad for various reasons. But living in Africa, living in white "ghettos" in SA and ranting about the "savage" African "aliens" that enter SA to destroy your country, blaming the predominately black ruled "incapable" ANC for all the "wrongs" that are going on in SA (as you frequently do) doesn´t make you the only "real" or "better" African(s).

In your eyes I am a "racist bigot" coming up with "baseless arguments"....and you even go as far as to declare me a "non-African" because I am following my studies abroad???!!! Hilarious! If that is your point of view, so be it. At least I don´t conceal my antipathy that I deeply cherish towards you. I speak my mind freely....and I will continue to speak my mind freely whenever I feel attacked or Nigeria or any other African country. You won´t deter me from it. My resolution has only become more forceful!

In closing, I would like to cite Zelteheist: "can you people direct your concerns to the main topic of discussion (...)"

Thank you!

, I have nothing against white people means against white people in general, especially those with an open mind or at least those trying to understand "the other". (this doesn´t include the white people of SA, the only white race I totally and completly reject).

Anyone with half a knowledge of English would see from this that you in fact do not have nothing against white people if you dislike white South Africans. It's simple English and if you plan on arguing against that then clearly you think you know the meaning of a word better than a dictionary does.

(Claiming that you are froman X and Y nation who has Africa at heart and so on and so forth)

If you're trying to tell me I'm not from South Africa then all I can do is :lol:

We could go on and on discussing this but it will lead to nowhere, the more you write, the more convinced and resolved I become in my firm conviction that I hold on you.


That goes both ways :cheers:

have you shown any form of sincere interest in our sub-forum?

Yes I have. The simple fact that I was reading it in the first place shows that I have shown interest in it.

a thread dedicated to urban development is littered with your accusations.

I have never accused anyone of anything in the development thread. All I have ever done is congratulated those on the receiving-side of the developments, so please don't come with that BS.

nobody[/B] can deny that I have not been looking for projects (which are hard to find), news, photos, information from personal blogs etc. for a very long time now with an aim, namely to portray Africa in a positive light or just like it really is, something that you people seem to feel uneasy about. I have not been uncritical about Africa (I am fully aware of its wrongs and rights) and even raised threads what can be done to improve things on the ground. But their is a difference of being negatively thinking or callous bashing, on the one hand, and positively critical, on the other hand.

We are outmostly thankful for your contributions to this forum...I have never said that we aren't or that you should leave. And I completely agree with the negativity issue, however, when Alex said something, not meaning to be negative, more critical, you jumped down his throat and then mine when I tried to point out this fact to you.


Yes, you are currently living and studying in Africa. So, you are certainly "better" than me and the majority of our forumers who currently dwell abroad for various reasons. But living in Africa, living in white "ghettos" in SA and ranting about the "savage" African "aliens" that enter SA to destroy your country, blaming the predominately black ruled "incapable" ANC for all the "wrongs" that are going on in SA (as you frequently do) doesn´t make you the only "real" or "better" African(s).

No one wants illegal aliens. It is a fact that illegal aliens harm the economy, so I don't see how you can blame us for not wanting them. If they would abide by the law when entering the country then I wouldn't give a second thought to them. This doesn't mean that I don't think we should aid these people in right way.

South Africa being a democratic country gives its citizens the right to rant. With the high crime rates and corruption going on in government I intent to take a stand. I will not sit back and lie to myself by pretending that nothing is wrong. I don't care who leads the country as long as they have what's right in their hearts.

and I will continue to speak my mind freely

What gives you the right to speak your right freely but not me as mentioned above? See the illogic here?


In closing, I would like to cite Zelteheist: "can you people direct your concerns to the main topic of discussion (...)"

Thank you!

Something we agree about :cheers:

We could go on and on discussin´ and discussin´ but we won´t reach any aim with you folks! It is just as clear as the the there is light at daytime and darkness during night! You are unable to understand what I am saying, constantly twisting words and taking them out of the larger context! So can we agree that you people simply sod off and leave us alone or focus on contributing to our sub-forum in a meanigful way (if you are ever able to it)!

All have been said for my part every other thing would be a constant repetition that will automatically fall on deaf ears ...but just feel free by showering with your accusations at will...., the only thing you seem to excel in!

Touchy touchy. Seems like we've hit a nerve. I can't twist the words that come out of your very own mouth (in the form of quotes).

Touchy touchy. Seems like we've hit a nerve. I can't twist the words that come out of your very own mouth (in the form of quotes).

Oh yes, you do ...It is not just you but all of you people (with varying degrees) which makes it even worse! You can´t differentiate and then you just twist it.

You really kill my nerves! Why can´t you simply sod off. Has SA run dry of projects to discuss?

My points have been made more than clear many times now and my conviction is immutable!

You all motherfuckers deserve to die. Stick to the bloody topic and take your bickering elsewhere. Ever heard of IM?

Oh yes, you do ...It is not just you but all of you people (with varying degrees) which makes it even worse! You can´t differentiate and then you just twist it.

You really kill my nerves! Why can´t you simply sod off. Has SA run dry of projects to discuss?

My points have been made more than clear many times now and my conviction is immutable!

We have plenty of projects, but thank you for your concern :) I'd still like to know how I am twisting your words if I'm quoting exactly what you said :nuts:

You all motherfuckers deserve to die. Stick to the bloody topic and take your bickering elsewhere. Ever heard of IM?

Of course! But the day I add Matthias on MSN will be the day South Africa runs out of projects to discuss :lol:

Lydon, you can never stop, can you? At least I don´t smile into your face while keeping the knife at my back, I have the courage to stab! You people are so deplorable! Speaking in the figurative sense: you neatly prepare everything for a person´s murder but make it it look like he has commited suicide himself. After that you stand at his grave by wheeping hypocritically: "Ohh, I loved him so much. Why did he have to go so early? I always wanted his best in life, for him and his beloved family!" ....But your hands are steeped in blood. Is that enough of an answer to your question?

Lydon, you can never stop, can you? At least I don´t smile into your face while keeping the knife at my back, I have the courage to stab! You people are so deplorable! Speaking in the figurative sense: you neatly prepare everything for a person´s murder but make it it look like he has commited suicide himself. After that you stand at his grave by wheeping hypocritically: "Ohh, I loved him so much. Why did he have to go so early? I always wanted his best in life, for him and his beloved family!" ....But your hands are steeped in blood. Is that enough of an answer to your question?

No I can not...for as long as you keep replying so shall I :banana:

P.S That little figurative mock-up didn't answer my question at all.

You all motherfuckers deserve to die. Stick to the bloody topic and take your bickering elsewhere. Ever heard of IM?

shut the fcuk up already!

Cool, an internet gangsta. :cool:

Lydon, you can never stop, can you? At least I don´t smile into your face while keeping the knife at my back, I have the courage to stab! You people are so deplorable! Speaking in the figurative sense: you neatly prepare everything for a person´s murder but make it it look like he has commited suicide himself. After that you stand at his grave by wheeping hypocritically: "Ohh, I loved him so much. Why did he have to go so early? I always wanted his best in life, for him and his beloved family!" ....But your hands are steeped in blood. Is that enough of an answer to your question?

Who died? :?

Can someone post the figures here? :)

Can someone post the figures here? :)

Includes all countries, if you want just Africa click on the first link. http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2353/todosqc1.jpg

shut the fcuk up already!

You all motherfuckers deserve to die. Stick to the bloody topic and take your bickering elsewhere. Ever heard of IM?

Where the hell did you come from! i've never seen you here before!

Those strange random comments you make just made me laugh to death dude!

Keep it up:nuts::lol:

P.S That little figurative mock-up didn't answer my question at all.

Oh yes, it did. Reflect twice!

Includes all countries, if you want just Africa click on the first link. http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2353/todosqc1.jpg

Hi, Alex, from that link, nothing beats Angola's

Angola's per capita GDP in 2007: $ 4,346
in 2008: $ 5,463 !!

That is more than 20% rise !! :applause: :applause:

Hi, Alex, from that link, nothing beats Angola's

Angola's per capita GDP in 2007: $ 4,346
in 2008: $ 5,463 !!

That is more than 20% rise !! :applause: :applause:

No doubt! Isn't the Economy scheduled to grow 30%?

btw here's a cool map from the IMF, so you can compare countries/regions!

http://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/index.php

Here are some of the figures from the notable African nations.

South Africa: 13,845
Angola: 4,346
Kenya: 1,456
Ethiopia: 1,238
Sudan: 3,093
DRC: 893
Nigeria: 1,280
Egypt: 5,272
Algeria: 8,203
Morroco: 6,003

The richest nations
Botswana 17,034
Namibia: 9,142
Libya: 14,108
Mauritius: 14,152
Seychelles: 21,534

Alex, again you left out Equatorial Guinea! You are obsessed with statistics (you kepp bombarding us with ratings) but you simply don´t want to see certain countries in it! it is really a pity! You are so hopelessly biased!

Alex, again you left out Equatorial Guinea! You are obsessed with statistics (you kepp bombarding us with ratings) but you simply don´t want to see certain countries in it! it is really a pity! You are so hopelessly biased!

Nah I hated my stats class in High school. But you are right I did leave out EG, simply because due to what has been repeated 100 times over their are some serious misgivings about their figures. It doesn't add up, how can a nation in which the world bank gave a gdp per capita of less than 2,000 suddenly x10 the number in a space of 6 years? How is it that their HDI is a mere .653?

I have asked these questions so many times but you or nobody else here has ever addressed them. So no bull shit, why is their a gross contradiction?

No doubt! Isn't the Economy scheduled to grow 30%?

btw here's a cool map from the IMF, so you can compare countries/regions!

http://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/index.php

Thanks man, I am really loving those maps and sliders.

Nah I hated my stats class in High school. But you are right I did leave out EG, simply because due to what has been repeated 100 times over their are some serious misgivings about their figures. It doesn't add up, how can a nation in which the world bank gave a gdp per capita of less than 2,000 suddenly x10 the number in a space of 6 years? How is it that their HDI is a mere .653?

Alex, how can Namibia (or even Botswana) for example have such high GDP figures and its HDI figures are even worse than those of Equatorial Guinea? Why can´t it get into your stubborn head? How many times will we continue to have this debate? Equatorial Guinea´s has had a sky-rocketing growth rate in the past ten years (due to il and costruction). Do you think that all those figures are invented? (I gave you the example of Oman to illustrate its discrepancy between high GDP figures and HDI index which was the case for the country in the early 80´s - but no longer is today - about ten years after discovery of oil but you refuse to understand) If the IWF works with invented figures it would cast its reputation as a credible international institute into doubt! If you want to make a list of Africa´s five richest nation, Equatorial Guinea has to be in it, no matter if you or me or anybody else likes it or not! Tomorrow, you will begin to tell us that even the oil statistisc of EQG are invented and that propably the country doesn´t produce as much oil as it claims to produce, although US oil companies are reaping gigantic profits in that tiny African country (which again is an established fact).
Sorry, to disappoint you but Namibia is out and Equatorial Guinea is in that list!

So the accurate list is:


Africa´s richest nations

Seychelles: 21,534
Equatorial Guinea 19,946
Botswana 17,034
Mauritius: 14,152
Libya: 14,108

Alex, how can Namibia (or even Botswana) for example have such high GDP figures and its HDI figures are even worse than those of Equatorial Guinea? Why can´t it get into your stubborn head? How many times will we continue to have this debate? Equatorial Guinea´s has had a sky-rocketing growth rate in the past ten years (due to il and costruction). Do you think that all those figures are invented? (I gave you the example of Oman to illustrate its discrepancy between high GDP figures and HDI index which was the case for the country in the early 80´s - but no longer is today - about ten years after discovery of oil but you refuse to understand) If the IWF works with invented figures it would cast its reputation as a credible international institute into doubt! If you want to make a list of Africa´s five richest nation, Equatorial Guinea has to be in it, no matter if you or me or anybody else likes it or not! Tomorrow, you will begin to tell us that even the oil statistisc of EQG are invented and that propably the country doesn´t produce as much oil as it claims to produce, although US oil companies are reaping gigantic profits in that tiny African country (which again is an established fact).
Sorry, to disappoint you but Namibia is out and Equatorial Guinea is in that list!

So the accurate list is:

Uhh no your wrong, the reason for the low HDI in countries like Botswana, South Africa and Namibia is quite simple, aids!! Southern Africa has a very high infection rate which drastically lowers the life expectancy dragging the average for these countries down. South Africa has an HDI similiar to India that doesn't mean their at the same level of development, but India's HDI infection rate is alot lower. Now EQ has an infection rate of around 3% roughly 1/10 from that of most of Southern Africa. What else could be dragging down their HDI?

Again they might be having a oil fueled economic boom but how can it go from having a GNI per capita income of 930 dollars to 20,000 in the space of 6 years? How is it that according to the CIA world factbook EQ is the 2nd richest nation only losing out to Luxembourg? Theirs no fooking consistency thats the problem!! Taking into account their goverment, the incredibly high levels of corruption its hard not to doubt these figures.

Now what exactly is your Oman example? It's percapita is roughly the same as EQ ( 19,879) yet its HDI is .810 it actually just proves my own point. In oil dependent economies the HDI ussually lags somewhat the per capita income. This can be due to poor education (women have low literacy) but the gap isn't that big. EQ is huuuuuuge. So were either talking about the most unequal nation in the world, or the figures have been "tampered" with to put it nicely.

Uhh no your wrong, the reason for the low HDI in countries like Botswana, South Africa and Namibia is quite simple, aids!! Southern Africa has a very high infection rate which drastically lowers the life expectancy dragging the average for these countries down. South Africa has an HDI similiar to India that doesn't mean their at the same level of development, but India's HDI infection rate is alot lower. Now EQ has an infection rate of around 3% roughly 1/10 from that of most of Southern Africa. What else could be dragging down their HDI?

Hhmm, again you are looking for exception although you are so obsessed with statistics, you are allowed to show me exception and want to make me/us believe all what it wrong but if I give you an idea to look beneath the numbers, it falls on deaf ears.

Again they might be having a oil fueled economic boom but how can it go from having a GNI per capita income of 930 dollars to 20,000 in the space of 6 years?

Show me the ststitics, please!. 930 dollars are certainly figures for early 90´s. and not from 200. Do not forget that you have seen growth rates for a couple of years of more than 70% in Equatorial Guinea, I am not kidding!! Even this year the growth is estimated at more than 20% again (oil and public construction sector and the new LNG gas plant are the main drivers)


Now what exactly is your Oman example? It's percapita is roughly the same as EQ ( 19,879) yet its HDI is .810 it actually just proves my own point. In oil dependent economies the HDI ussually lags somewhat the per capita income. This can be due to poor education (women have low literacy) but the gap isn't that big. EQ is huuuuuuge. So were either talking about the most unequal nation in the world, or the figures have been "tampered" with to put it nicely.:ohno::ohno::ohno:

You don´t seem to read properly what I write . And gave you the example of Oman (its huuuge discrepancies between GDP figures and HDI figures in the early 80´s), same like Equatorial Guinea today. Oman boomed tremendously in the 70´s but social indicators where low, reason: the country first put most of its petro-dollars into the construction of material infrastructure (same for Equatorila Guinea today)....and later embarked on a social spending spree which helped to push up the HDI Index to the figure that we see today.

Dantexavier made the effort to show us the improvement in the HDI index in EQG but all you had to say is : "Don´t trust these figures, they are all invented!". Although you keep coming up with those ranking all the time. You simply don´t want certain African countries to figure in them. (your threads about "African Solidarity" on the Oasis doesn´t make you a friend of Africa).


Alex, You do seem to have a problem with a black African country rising...this explains your stubborness.
South Africa is almost a white-dominated country and the same is the case for Namibia. (even more for the latter because you don´t have a social black middle class in Namibia which is the case for SA) Yes, Namibian cities are wonderfully clean and ordered but this doesn´t brush aside the fact that Namibia still functions like a colony or at least like a post-colonial country. (around 120 000 Whites who still dominate the economy almost entirely in comparison to more than 1.5 million blacks). The social inequality is enormous in Namibia (check their GINI Index). Namibia is one of the most unequal countries in the world! The unemployment among black people is enormous and even growing due to reports that I have read. I don´t want the Whites to leave Namibia, it would be catastrophic for the country if this happened, so don´t put words into mouth now after reading it that I am anti-white which I am certainly NOT, all I want is that they should learn to share their wealth with the black population. I want to see integration and not seperation! Fortunately, I have seen a couple of reports about Namibia on German TV...there is a huge social imbalance in the country! You know, that I am a friend of muti-racial countries but chances should be there for everyone and not just a white elite! I can´t see this happening in Namibia, it is still racially a sharply divided country. Although Namibian cities are nordic-looking, this doesn´t deny the fact that Namibia is a country located in Africa with a predominately black population. It is not Scandinavia.

Hhmm, again you are looking for exception although you are so obsessed with statistics, you are allowed to show me exception and want to make me/us believe all what it wrong but if I give you an idea to look beneath the numbers, it falls on deaf ears.



Show me the ststitics, please!. 930 dollars are certainly figures for early 90´s. and not from 200. Do not forget that you have seen growth rates for a couple of years of more than 70% in Equatorial Guinea, I am not kidding!! Even this year the growth is estimated at more than 20% again (oil and public construction sector and the new LNG gas plant are the main drivers)

:ohno::ohno::ohno:

You don´t seem to read properly what I write . And gave you the example of Oman (its huuuge discrepancies between GDP figures and HDI figures in the early 80´s), same like Equatorial Guinea today. Oman boomed tremendously in the 70´s but social indicators where low, reason: the country first put most of its petro-dollars into the construction of material infrastructure (same for Equatorila Guinea today)....and later embarked on a social spending spree which helped to push up the HDI Index to the figure that we see today.

Dantexavier made the effort to show us the improvement in the HDI index in EQG but all you had to say is : "Don´t trust these figures, they are all invented!". Although you keep coming up with those ranking all the time. You simply don´t want certain African countries to figure in them. (your threads about "African Solidarity" on the Oasis doesn´t make you a friend of Africa).


Alex, You do seem to have a problem with a black African country rising...this explains your stubborness.
South Africa is almost a white-dominated country and the same is the case for Namibia. (even more for the latter because you don´t have a social black middle class in Namibia which is the case for SA) Yes, Namibian cities are wonderfully clean and ordered but this doesn´t brush aside the fact that Namibia still functions like a colony or at least like a post-colonial country. (around 120 000 Whites who still dominate the economy almost entirely in comparison to more than 1.5 million blacks). The social inequality is enormous in Namibia (check their GINI Index). Namibia is one of the most unequal countries in the world! The unemployment among black people is enormous and even growing due to reports that I have read. I don´t want the Whites to leave Namibia, it would be catastrophic for the country if this happened, so don´t put words into mouth now after reading it that I am anti-white which I am certainly NOT, all I want is that they should learn to share their wealth with the black population. I want to see integration and not seperation! Fortunately, I have seen a couple of reports about Namibia on German TV...there is a huge social imbalance in the country! You know, that I am a friend of muti-racial countries but chances should be there for everyone and not just a white elite! I can´t see this happening in Namibia, it is still racially a sharply divided country. Although Namibian cities are nordic-looking, this doesn´t deny the fact that Namibia is a country located in Africa with a predominately black population. It is not Scandinavia.

I don't know what your talking about, its not an "exception" its sort of the letter of the law, aids reduces life expectancy drastically. Nations that are infected by it greatly drag down the average.

Here's from the bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/country_profiles/1023151.stm as you can see its from the World Bank a 2001 estimate. So yes the "miracle" that would put China to shame.

Show me figures to back that up, because otherwise I won't believe you. Oman's gdp per capita has been growing at a very fast pace. In the 80's they weren't anywhere near the 10,000 mark. So the gap would not have been as big. The oil gulf countries of the Middle East were no where near their level of development in the 70's to how they are now. The gap then between HDI and percapita still remains.

Oh god you always use this against other white people "You do seem to have a problem with a black African country rising..." this whole black and white argument is getting seriously old! Again if you think those figures on EQ are true than this "black african" country is the most unequal in the world. Where corrupt rich black people in the government hold all the money and power from poor black masses. If this wasn't the case the gap between per capita and HDI would not be as great!

I don't know what your talking about, its not an "exception" its sort of the letter of the law, aids reduces life expectancy drastically. Nations that are infected by it greatly drag down the average.

No doubt about that, but ask yourself why those "rich" African nations like Namibia are infecting by Aids if everybody seems so marvellously educated and living such posh lives in "enligthened" Namibia where the state is catering for "everything" as you indirectly imply?!

Here's from the bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/afr...es/1023151.stm as you can see its from the World Bank a 2001 estimate. So yes the "miracle" that would put China to shame.

You want to compare a nation with 500 000 people to a nation that is just raising his head with a mighty nation with more than 1 billion!:ohno::ohno:
As for the figure, it doesn´t convince me : BBC often fails to update their figures. this figure is certainly not from 2001. I will look for the figures published by real financial institutions like Worldbank and IWF and not by the BBC.



Show me figures to back that up, because otherwise I won't believe you. Oman's gdp per capita has been growing at a very fast pace. In the 80's they weren't anywhere near the 10,000 mark. So the gap would not have been as big. The oil gulf countries of the Middle East were no where near their level of development in the 70's to how they are now. The gap then between HDI and percapita still remains.

Where did I say this? Do you need glasses!? Re-read what I have tried to get across in vain!



Oh god you always use this against other white people "You do seem to have a problem with a black African country rising..." this whole black and white argument is getting seriously old! Again if you think those figures on EQ are true than this "black african" country is the most unequal in the world. Where corrupt rich black people in the government hold all the money and power from poor black masses. If this wasn't the case the gap between per capita and HDI would not be as great!

No, black and white issue is still as vivid as it was once especially in countries such as Namibia, unfortunately , even 17 years after independence. I gave you the example of Namibia and this is what you replied.
Oh yes, Namibia "of course" is a very equal society and everybody chirpily sips coffee like in Miami South Beach exchanging adresses about which plastic surgeon is the best in town right now.:lol:

Dantexavier has given us figures that show that the HDI figures are rising which you simply refuse to accept!

Originally posted by Dantexavier

But I recently took a look at the HDI stats for Eq. Guinea. The country ranks at 120. Now, that isn't great, but that ranking also puts it ahead of places like India or Pakistan, both of which are considered modern "asian tigers"(or something close to that) today. Then you must consider where Eq. Guinea used to be with regards to HDI:

Human development index, 1985 0.484
Human development index, 1990 0.501
Human development index, 1995 0.519
Human development index, 2000 0.643
Human development index, 2004 0.653

1995: .519
2004: .653

That is A LOT of imnprovement in just about a decade! Clearly, a lot of good actually has been done there after all.

I think we can be somewhat more optimisitic about the country from now on. I know I will be.

I am keen on getting the figures from 2007...oh I forget they are all invented! So who cares?

Ahh man Matthias again stirring bullshit. When well he sod off to his own Western European forums? :bash:

help help i am an evil boer rascist white south african. some people are really so full of it!

No doubt about that, but ask yourself why those "rich" African nations like Namibia are infecting by Aids if everybody seems so marvellously educated and living such posh lives in "enligthened" Namibia where the state is catering for "everything" as you indirectly imply?!



You want to compare a nation with 500 000 people to a nation that is just raising his head with a mighty nation with more than 1 billion!:ohno::ohno:
As for the figure, it doesn´t convince me : BBC often fails to update their figures. this figure is certainly not from 2001. I will look for the figures published by real financial institutions like Worldbank and IWF and not by the BBC.




Where did I say this? Do you need glasses!? Re-read what I have tried to get across in vain!




No, black and white issue is still as vivid as it was once especially in countries such as Namibia, unfortunately , even 17 years after independence. I gave you the example of Namibia and this is what you replied.
Oh yes, Namibia "of course" is a very equal society and everybody chirpily sips coffee like in Miami South Beach exchanging adresses about which plastic surgeon is the best in town right now.:lol:

Dantexavier has given us figures that show that the HDI figures are rising which you simply refuse to accept!


I'm not saying life is marvelous, these are still developing and generally poor countries. But its all relative, the quality of life in Namibia for the average Africa is alot better than in Nigeria, Senegal or Ghana. I'm no expert on Aids or HIV but apart of is geography, because its Southern Africa that is hit alot worse than say western africa despite having better medical infrastructure. So another "indirect" implication lol, only because I think Namibia is wealthier than EQ doesn't equate to everyone sipping their starbucks coffee.

From the World Bank, wow! What a difference... http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/AFRICAEXT/EQGUINEAEXTN/0,,menuPK:352197~pagePK:141132~piPK:141109~theSitePK:352171,00.html

I did not say Namibia is an "equal" society along with Botswana and South Africa it has one of the highest inequalities. But its not so much seperated between races. The problem lies in black governments not doing what they promised their people after independence and end of white rule. You see their are very rich black people in these countries but the only way to better your economic situation is to have connections with high ranking officials. So last time I checked both Botswana and Namibia had over 90% of their people being "black" so your petty argument of me questioning EQ's figures because its a "black" country is plain stupid.

IMF is my point of reference here and not BBC World..

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2006/cr06237.pdf (Beware: the document is quite long)

but it lays claim to what I have already said.

Equatorial Guinea is putting and emphasis on the construction of material infrastructure first.

On page 97:

Total Expenditure on infrastruture development (in percentage):

2004: 62%
2005: 57%
2006: 46,7%
2007: 81.6%
2008: 82.5%

Social Development:

2004: 18%
2005: 13.1%
2006: 47,2%
2007: 14.2%
2008: 13.6%

And Administrative devlopment check out the figures all on page 97 below

...on page 102 you can also see Equatorial Guinea´s rising foreign and internal assets, all a result of the growing local content in oil. Remember, I explained you difficulties the country had when it first discovered oil by in the early 90´s and the "slavery contracts" it signed with the big US oil companies....it is emerging out of this position today.
Surprisingly, it has become quite quiet about this tiny nation: the media is no longer reporting about the cholera outbreaks and people suffering as they did in the past, they don´t want to tell about the new aspects of development taking place. One has to visit other sources for it.

PS: As said the report is long, loads of statistical material for our statistical "friends".

You still want to say that all is invented by IWF?!

I did not say Namibia is an "equal" society along with Botswana and South Africa it has one of the highest inequalities. But its not so much seperated between races. The problem lies in black governments not doing what they promised their people after independence and end of white rule. You see their are very rich black people in these countries but the only way to better your economic situation is to have connections with high ranking officials. So last time I checked both Botswana and Namibia had over 90% of their people being "black" so your petty argument of me questioning EQ's figures because its a "black" country is plain stupid.

Very revealing to me. Thank you!

Namibia had over 90% of their people being "black" so your petty of me questioning EQ's figures because its a "black" country is plain stupid

Can you read??? Where did I say that Namibia is not a black country, I said it is predominately black. I was alluding to the social imbalances which are not a direct result of " incompetent black government" as you imply but a result of colonial rule first by the Germany and then by the hyper-racist SA Apartheid regime that spread their weird stone-age theories to Namibia which led to the complete marginalization of Namibians.

the quality of life in Namibia for the average Africa is alot better than in Nigeria, Senegal or Ghana. I'm no expert on Aids or HIV but apart of is geography, because its Southern Africa that is hit alot worse than say western africa despite having better medical infrastructure. So another "indirect" implication lol, only because I think Namibia is wealthier than EQ doesn't equate to everyone sipping their starbucks coffee.

My "dear" Alex, only because the streets are clean and houses get repainted and so on and so forth, this is not a sign of belonging to a wealthy nation. The average black African in Namibia is a 100% more unfree (mentally not politically) and oppressed than it is the case for either Ghana, Senegal or Nigeria. And I am sure he is even on average poorer, because you get a middle class in Nigeria, you have one in Senegal (rising, not everybody takes a boat to Europe although this is what media want to make us believe most people still come on plane). I want to see this for Namibia which is among the most unequal societies in the world. ...or do those figures don´t apply just because it is still white-dominated?

can you guys just stop fighting already

Namibia still has a long way to go, no matter what you are trying to sell us here. There is more to Namibia than just clean and ordered cities. It is a country which huge social imbalances....or is it all invented or just a fault of "incomptent black government" that took over after white rule ended in 1990???!!!

NAMIBIA: Joblessness, poverty challenge progress, report




WINDHOEK, 16 October 2006 (IRIN) - Rising levels of unemployment and poverty are hindering Namibia's development, a human rights watchdog said in its annual review, published this month.

The National Society for Human Rights (NSHR) said in its 240-page report covering August 2005 to July 2006 that respect for human rights had deteriorated.

"Internal migration, dramatic increases in municipal and other tariffs, leading to indebtedness and evictions, mushrooming of shebeens [informal taverns], labour-related factors like casualisation of labour, retrenchments and street vending, add to growing marginalisation and impoverishment", said Phil ya Nangoloh, the society's executive director.

More than half Namibia's nearly two million people live on US$2 or less a day. Officially, unemployment is 33 percent, but unofficial estimates put the rate as high as 40 percent, creating high levels of food insecurity and income poverty at household level. UNAIDS estimates that about 20 percent of Namibia's sexually active adult population are infected with HIV, which has also affected the workforce and the delivery of social services.

(...) for detailed news: http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=61341




NAMIBIA: Struggling with the past



JOHANNESBURG, 28 August 2007 (IRIN) - Namibia laid to rest a part of its apartheid past this week, when the remains of liberation fighters discovered in mass graves in the north of the country were reburied.

The bodies of guerrillas of the now-ruling South West Africa Peoples Organisation (SWAPO) were discovered in 2005 in Eenhana, near a former base of the South African Defence Force (SADF), which occupied Namibia until independence in 1990.

Namibian President Hifikepunye Pohamba, accompanied by the country's founding president, Sam Nujoma, recalled how SWAPO fighters were tortured and killed, and then buried outside the camp. "The discovery of the mass graves at Eenhana bears testimony to the brutality of the apartheid South African regime," he was reported as saying.

(...)


The NSHR blames SWAPO for the alleged disappearance of 4,200 people between 1959 and 2003, many of them detained by SWAPO for being alleged South African spies.

But ya Nangoloh's allegations, which equate the human rights record of the SWAPO leadership with the apartheid military, have triggered fury in the party. SWAPO Chief Whip Johnny Hakaye tabled a motion in the Namibian parliament last week to examine the legal status of the NSHR.

South African atrocities committed during the liberation war are well documented. The South African TRC, set up by former president Nelson Mandela to probe apartheid era abuses, found the SADF and Koevoet, a counter-insurgency police unit, guilty of gross human rights abuse in Namibia.

The Namibian government has consistently rejected calls for a local TRC process. Information minister Netumbo Nandi-Ndaitwah told IRIN in 2006 that at independence in 1990, SWAPO had signed an agreement with the then apartheid South African government not to take legal action against individuals for their role during the liberation war.

Ya Nangoloh insists that the TRC would be non-partisan. "As we have persistently done during the last 15 years, we reiterate our call for the establishment of a TRC to investigate all human rights violations committed in opposition to Namibian independence, and in the name of achieving such independence."

Call to regulate media

Meanwhile, the parliamentary motion on the NSHR has antagonised the Namibian media. SWAPO chief whip Hakaye also called for a body to regulate the media, which had reported ya Nangoloh's calls.

(...) for entire news: http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=73984

IMF is my point of reference here and not BBC World..

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2006/cr06237.pdf (Beware: the document is quite long)

but it lays claim to what I have already said.

Equatorial Guinea is putting and emphasis on the construction of material infrastructure first.

On page 97:



...on page 102 you can also see Equatorial Guinea´s rising foreign and internal assets, all a result of the growing local content in oil. Remember, I explained you difficulties the country had when it first discovered oil by in the early 90´s and the "slavery contracts" it signed with the big US oil companies....it is emerging out of this position today.
Surprisingly, it has become quite quiet about this tiny nation: the media is no longer reporting about the cholera outbreaks and people suffering as they did in the past, they don´t want to tell about the new aspects of development taking place. One has to visit other sources for it.

PS: As said the report is long, loads of statistical material for our statistical "friends".

You still want to say that all is invented by IWF?!

LOL! Dude, look at the report, especially other Social and Demographic indicators. I'm not questioning economic growth or progress I'm soley questioning the current gdp per capita figures. According to this report here's what follows EG...

GNP per capita (2005) 1,888
Life Expectancy 52 years
Infant mortality 97/1,000
Child mortality 146/1,000

So have we now established that EG is NOT one of Africa's richest and developed nations?! Or that their gdp per capita cannot be 19,000????

Very revealing to me. Thank you!



Can you read??? Where did I say that Namibia is not a black country, I said it is predominately black. I was alluding to the social imbalances which are not a direct result of " incompetent black government" as you imply but a result of colonial rule first by the Germany and then by the hyper-racist SA Apartheid regime that spread their weird stone-age theories to Namibia which led to the complete marginalization of Namibians.


My "dear" Alex, only because the streets are clean and houses get repainted and so on and so forth, this is not a sign of belonging to a wealthy nation. The average black African in Namibia is a 100% more unfree (mentally not politically) and oppressed than it is the case for either Ghana, Senegal or Nigeria. And I am sure he is even on average poorer, because you get a middle class in Nigeria, you have one in Senegal (rising, not everybody takes a boat to Europe although this is what media want to make us believe most people still come on plane). I want to see this for Namibia which is among the most unequal societies in the world. ...or do those figures don´t apply just because it is still white-dominated?

Okay, black Namibians are generally poorer than white Namibians just as black Americans are generally poorer than white Americans. In the end whose economically better off the black American or the Senegalese? Just as whose better off the black Namibian or Congolese? I'm talking strictly present day situation, neglecting past and whose at fault.

Oh Wow!!! Oppressed mentally???! I love it how certain priviledged Africans talk as if the poorer massives are all good, happy and free. What does freedom even mean? How is it that someone in Nigeria is "freerer" than someone in Namibia? Nigeria has a middle class but its percentage of the overall population is lower than that of Namibia or Botswana, don't kid yourself their are more people in the "free west african coast" living in abject poverty in proportion the population than in any of the "oppressed" southern countries.

You might think of Namibians and others as a bunch white man's servants but that perhaps hides a hint of jealousy. Afterall it is free Nigerians that come and flock to South Africa. I haven't seen any black "slaves" take the trip the promise land.

This getting too old now. Every topic is turned into the same "my dick is bigger than yours'' get off your high horses and discuss the topic on hand.

Okay, black Namibians are generally poorer than white Namibians just as black Americans are generally poorer than white Americans. In the end whose economically better off the black American or the Senegalese? Just as whose better off the black Namibian or Congolese? I'm talking strictly present day situation, neglecting past and whose at fault.

So you compare the richest nation on earth the USA with Senegal? :lol:What is in your brain? Shit? All I was trying to explain to you (repeatedly in vain) is that Nigerian, Ghanaians etc. are not just in absolute numbers but also in relative numbers better off than black Namibians...black Namibians are not leaving the joyful life you are trying to sell us here (my points have been made clear above) and you cannot leave out history as you said above because their bad social status is a direct result of history.:bash:

Oh Wow!!! Oppressed mentally???! I love it how certain priviledged Africans talk as if the poorer massives are all good, happy and free. What does freedom even mean? How is it that someone in Nigeria is "freerer" than someone in Namibia? Nigeria has a middle class but its percentage of the overall population is lower than that of Namibia or Botswana, don't kid yourself their are more people in the "free west african coast" living in abject poverty in proportion the population than in any of the "oppressed" southern countries.

Explained above, Nigeria´s middle class lower than that of Namibia and Botswna. What next? Good joke next one, please! Would you tell this to the CEO´s of our world, too?

You might think of Namibians and others as a bunch white man's servants but that perhaps hides a hint of jealousy. Afterall it is free Nigerians that come and flock to South Africa. I haven't seen any black "slaves" take the trip the promise land.

Oh yes, the Nigerian pimps all entering your SA who are to be blamed for all the crime mess in your country.

Jealous of Namibia? Me? I don´t know where I am jealous of a country that is run by 120 000 whites whereas the vast majority still lives in "mental and economic bondage". Moreover, I never denied that all is bliss in Nigeria but trying to sell us the idea that the middle class in Nigeria is smaller than that of Namibia is the funniest joke that I have read in ages!

IT IS YOU HAVING A PROBLEM WITH A BLACK COUNTRY RISING !!!

As for the figure of Equatorial Guinea, here is another link (from 2004)

http://www.britannica.com/eb/question-190664/19/GNP-per-capita-Equatorial-Guinea

Figure for 2005

Population, total (millions) 0.5
Population growth (annual %) 2.3
Surface area (sq. km) (thousands) 28.1
Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) 123.0
Literacy rate, youth female (% of females ages 15-24) 94.9
GNI (current US$) (billions) 3.6
GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) 5410.0
Prevalence of HIV, total (% of population ages 15-49) 3.2

Source: http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/AFRICAEXT/NAMIBIAEXTN/0,,menuPK:382319~pagePK:141132~piPK:141109~theSitePK:382293,00.html



As for Namibia (2004)

http://www.britannica.com/eb/question-402283/19/GNP-per-capita-Namibia

Figures fro 2005

Population, total (millions) 2.0
Population growth (annual %) 1.1
Surface area (sq. km) (thousands) 824.3
Life expectancy at birth, total (years) 46.9
Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births) 46.0
Literacy rate, youth female (% of females ages 15-24) 93.5
GNI (current US$) (billions) 6.2
GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) 2960.0
Prevalence of HIV, total (% of population ages 15-49) 19.6

Source: http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/AFRICAEXT/NAMIBIAEXTN/0,,menuPK:382319~pagePK:141132~piPK:141109~theSitePK:382293,00.html

My link does not work sorry i'll try later

My link does not work sorry i'll try later

Alex R., there is no need or don´t you believe those World Bank figures? All "invented" stuff, that´s how this international agency makes its money by crunching and inventing numbers! :lol:So let matters rest now and just swallow the bitter pill!

Alex R., there is no need or don´t you believe those World Bank figures? All "invented" stuff, that´s how this international agency makes its money by crunching and inventing numbers! :lol:So let matters rest now and just swallow the bitter pill!

I'm not questioning those figures at all. Here's an interesting article that will lay this topic to rest.

Equatorial Guinea: 40 Years Of independence

By Agustin Velloso

07 October, 2007
Countercurrents.org


1. One decade of enormous economic growth.

Equatorial Guinea, a very small country (28.000 sq km and population around 550.000) situated in the Gulf of Guinea, in Western Africa, has remained almost unnoticed for the rest of the world until the last years of the last century and the beginning of the 21st.

In recent reports made public by international observers, the country is mainly associated to “the spectacular abundance of oil revenues” and consequently with the “the world’s highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth between 1995 and 2001”. The comparison of the economic data either with the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa nowadays, or with Equatorial Guinea before the oil era, is revealing. Concerning GDP, the average annual growth between 1984 and 1994 was 3.0, while between 1994 and 2004 it reached 21.6. Besides, concerning GDP per capita, the average annual growth between 1984 and 1994 was 0.5, while between 1994 and 2004 was 18.4. At the same time, GDP was 10.0 and GDP per capita 7.4 in 2004 for Sub-Saharan Africa. The average annual growth in the industry (1994-2004) was 43.1 for Equatorial Guinea, while it was 25.5 for in 2003 for Sub-Saharan Africa. (1)

2. Mismatch between economic development and human development.

Has economic development been translated into human development? The OECD is rather sparing in its assessment: “Oil revenues are considerable and have deeply transformed the economic structure of the country; however they have not yet greatly benefited the whole of its small population.”

The European Union states: “this increase in resources has not yet been matched in the social sphere by a similar improvement in the living conditions of the population, which still show worrying indicators. Equatorial Guinea is currently in position 110 (out of 162) in the Human Development Index (HDI) of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)”.

The United States Department of State is sententious in its description: “The majority of the population lives by subsistence agriculture, supplemented by hunting and fishing. (…) There is little evidence that the country’s oil wealth is being devoted to the public good.” (2)

3. Management of oil wealth: economic success and social failure.

While sources coincide in their description of Equatorial Guinea’s economic success, together with the lack of a similar social progress, they differ in their judgement of the reasons behind the mismatch.

The OECD stresses the “inadequacy of the institutional environment of Equatorial Guinea. (…) Basic infrastructure is one of the major bottlenecks for the development of Equatorial Guinea. (…) Other serious concerns arise from the weak separation of power between judiciary, executive and legislative.”

For the European Union, the lack of social progress “is mainly due to a paralysed and very inefficient administration, which curbs the country’s development.” It further stresses lack of awareness about the ‘public service’ idea, power centralization and lack of knowledge of procedures and laws as negative factors.

The United States Department of State has another explanation: “Corruption and a dysfunctional judicial system disrupt the development of Equatorial Guinea’s economy and society. (…) The government budget still does not include all revenues and expenditures. (…) Application of the laws remains selective. Corruption among officials is widespread, and many business deals are concluded under nontransparent circumstances.” (3)

Poor infrastructure, lack of inefficiency, or simply corruption? In 2004 the United States Senate released a report on money laundering focusing in Equatorial Guinea. The senators consider the president and his family responsible in several cases of grave wrongdoing: “Riggs Bank managed more than 60 accounts and certificates of deposit for Equatorial Guinea, its officials, and their family members, with little or no attention to the bank’s anti-money laundering obligations”. Oil is at the core of this: “Oil companies operating in Equatorial Guinea may have contributed to corrupt practices in that country by making substantial payments to, or entering into formal business ventures with, individual E.G. officials, their family members, or entities they control, with minimal public disclosure of their actions.” (4)

4. Politics and human development in Equatorial Guinea

Equatorial Guinea’s recent history shows the country had three solid foundations on which the government could have based the country’s development. During the twenty nine years of continuous Obiang’s presidency, Equatorial Guinea has signed or ratified all major international instruments in every sphere of the political realm and has become a party to almost any major international convention. Besides, during this period, major powers, plus the former colonial power, Spain, have been trading with Equatorial Guinea and cooperating in its development. Moreover, the oil boom of the last ten years has provided the funds to finance development projects.

However, Teodoro Obiang, who became the country’s president through a coup against his uncle Macías in 1979, has sought above all to perpetuate himself in power and reap all benefits. This has been possible through a mix of a) marred elections; b) political repression; c) control of the state powers: judicial, legislative and governmental; d) control of the country’s resources; and e) international political and economic support.

a) Municipal, parliamentary and presidential elections are held and political parties other than the -ever winning- president’s Partido Democrático de Guinea Ecuatorial (PDGE) are allowed to participate in the elections. However, as it happens with any other political activity and the exercise of the political, social, economic and cultural rights, what exists in theory does not exist in reality. “In early January 1996 Obiang called for presidential elections. International observers agreed that the campaign was marred by fraud. (…) In April 2004, parliamentary and municipal elections took place. President Obiang’s party and allied parties won 98 of 100 seats in parliament and all but seven of 244 municipal posts. International observers criticized both the election and its results.” (5)

b) The regime’s human rights record is very poor. This has been documented in several reports by the United Nations Human Rights Commission Special Representative, who has described torture as a “normal means of investigation”. The representative has also pointed at beatings and abuse of suspects, prisoners and opposition politicians as well as lack of food and medical care for detainees.

c) The current constitution -in force since 1982- gives the president extensive powers, amongst them: naming and dismissing members of the cabinet, making laws by decree, and dissolving the Chamber of Representatives. He also appoints the governors of the seven provinces. At the top of the judicial system is the president himself and his judicial advisers. Besides he retains his role as commander in chief of the armed forces. Most of the highest government positions are occupied by the president’s close relatives (brothers, sons, half-brothers and uncles), by members of his clan (Esangui) and by people chosen from his hometown (Mongomo). On the other hand, the law does not provide for access to government information.

d) Control by Equatorial Guinea’s elite of the state resources has already been shown above. Suffice it to underline that besides the most important industries, oil and timber, almost any other economic sector –except for subsistence activities- is also under its control.

e) There are a number of individual countries and international state bodies cooperating with Equatorial Guinea. On the one hand, cooperation laws and principles require that assistance must contribute to the improvement of the social and economic situation of the population. Moreover, aid has to be linked to the implementation of democratic policies by the recipient government. On the other, in practice, cooperation is carried out with disregard to political conditions. While some non government organisations (NGOs) have terminated projects in Equatorial Guinea because of those, individual countries and international agencies maintain aid programmes and political links.

Conclusion: Understanding poor human development in a rich country.

Equatorial Guinea’s recent history shows that its sudden and easily acquired wealth has proved unable to make the country go noticeably up the scale of human development. On the other hand, the country’s economic and political integration in the international community has not helped either.

According to the UNDP Human Development Index (HDI) rank, Equatorial Guinea is close to the bottom of the medium human development group and it is placed in position 121 of 177 countries. The country has experienced some improvement in the last years, during the oil period: In 1999 it was placed in position 131 of 174, closer to the bottom of the same group. However, GDP per capita (PPP$) was 1.817 in 1999, while it is 19.780 in 2005. There is not a single country in this group with a similar GDP per capita. The closest is Oman with 13.584, placed in position 71, near to the top of the same group. On the other hand, life expectancy at birth is 74.1 in Oman and 43.3 in Equatorial Guinea.

In other words: almost forty years after the country achieved independence (October 12, 1968) and more than ten years after the start of the oil industry, Equatorial Guinea’s position in the HDI is quite far from what is expected for a country with the world’s highest GDP growth in 1995-2001.

This challenges explanations about lack of progress that point to administration inefficiency, poor infrastructure and, of course, cultural and natural reasons. Equatorial Guinea’s example shows that misappropriation and mismanagement of wealth by the elite is the main cause behind the lack of human development. At the same time, this casts serious doubts about aid policies by Western powers towards Third World countries.

http://www.countercurrents.org/velloso071007.htm

I still wonder how a nation can be so poor yet have such a high gdp per capita. My problem was that I didn't look EG as a tiny nation of only 500,000 so you include this as well as

Third largest oil producer in Africa
tenth most corrupt nation
ranked 131st in HDI (ranking worsened despite huuuge increase in economic growth)
Dictatorship

What does this all equate too? A nation where the government and its cronies amount great wealths that doesn't reach the people. So Matthias your right in one way, the 19,000 figure is indeed correct, but that doesn't reflect the reality for 90% of its people. This makes you wrong in labelling them as "Africa's richest" probably "Africa's most unequal".

I do hope that you can read French, The French overseas department in Gabon has written a brand new report about Equatorial Guinea, this is no promotion (!!), it is based on facts and information from the country. It shows its positive and its negative!

It is bearing witness to following facts:

1.) a new minimum wage has been introduced, it is by far the highest in entire West and Central Africa sub-region

2.) People are beginning to see the benefits of the boom more and more: new roads and constantly rising opportunities of formal employment, thousands of new social housing which is under construction in Malabo, Bata and even in provincial towns and "cities", the new city MAlabo II which is u/c

3.) Equatorila Guinea has imposed a new quota system that helps to bring the locals into the economy and not just the foreigners, no matter if they come from overseas or other African countries. (it is said that this will be hard to sustain, however)

4.) Constantly rising public budgets: almost 2$ Billion this year and more than that in 2008 for construction for 600 000 people only whereas Cameroun just has a third of this budget for almost 18 million people. (the facts are stated in the report)

5.) A multilane highway between Ebeyin and Bata is under construction through virgin rainforest (it is on the continenantal part of EQG).

6.) The Electricity generation will expand rapidly once the mega hydro-electrical project undertaken by a Chinese company comes onstream

7.) Portable water for all provincial towns in the country.



GUINEE EQUATORIALE : quelle politique de développement et quelles opportunités

La Lettre d'Afrique Centrale no. 58 - Septembre 2007

La Guinée Equatoriale, qui s’est au cours des dernières années transformée en l’unique véritable « émirat » pétrolier d’Afrique avec toutes les caractéristiques que sont une faible population estimée -au minimum- à 600 000 habitants, une économie reposant sur le pétrole et quelques secteurs – dont le BTP-, qui lui sont liés directement ou indirectement, un PIB par tête qui a explosé (environ 22 500 USD/tête en parité de pouvoir d’achat), est confrontée à de nombreux défis.
Les autorités doivent éviter le syndrome hollandais, permettre une amélioration du niveau de vie des populations, investir la rente pétrolière appelée à décroître dans des activités qui assureront le futur du pays, se repositionner dans le dialogue régional. Sur ce dernier point, la réforme des institutions de la CEMAC et celle des instances dirigeantes de la BEAC sont une première réponse au souci des équato-guinéens de faire entendre leur voix en Afrique centrale.

Même s’il reste un long chemin à parcourir vers une répartition plus égalitaire de la richesse nationale et vers un accès à des services de santé et d’éducation de qualité pour le plus grand nombre, la population voit néanmoins son revenu croître progressivement sous l’effet, d’une part, de salaires fixés par l’administration à un niveau plus élevé que dans les autres pays d’Afrique centrale (le salaire minimum est de 95 400 FCFA et les salaires du secteur pétrolier sont doublés) et, d’autre part, de l’augmentation des opportunités d’emploi, certes artificiellement favorisées par l’imposition de quotas sur la main d’œuvre étrangère, quota que les entreprises ont souvent du mal à respecter en raison d’une qualification insuffisante des candidats à l’embauche équato-guinéens.

L’argent du pétrole commence ainsi à se diffuser dans le tissu économique et cela se voit…Les premiers efforts portent sur les infrastructures et l’immobilier (habitat social, résidences de luxe, immobilier de bureau). L’Etat utilise l’outil budgétaire et l’arme réglementaire, en imposant par exemple aux grandes entreprises pétrolières et autres la construction de sièges sociaux dans la cadre du développement de la ville nouvelle de MALABO II. Le gouvernement équato-guinéen va poursuivre sa politique volontariste d’investissement public, au moins sur les 4 ou 5 prochaines années. Le budget qui y est consacré en 2007 est d’environ 970 milliards de FCFA -1,48 milliard d’euros-; il devrait passer à 1 000 milliards de FCFA lors de l’exercice 2008. A titre de comparaison, le CAMEROUN (17,8 millions d’habitants), n’aura budgété en 2007 que 496 milliards FCFA de dépenses en capital dont il n’exécutera probablement péniblement guère plus de la moitié.
Les axes d’investissement prioritaires du gouvernement restent centrés autour des secteurs suivants :
- les infrastructures de transport avec l’achèvement du port de Malabo, du contournement de la capitale, le bitumage des routes de la partie continentale et le projet d’autoroute BATA-EBIBEYIN qui s’inscrit dans le programme du réseau routier transafricain
- l’eau potable avec des travaux dans les capitales provinciales
- le logement social, avec la poursuite des programmes sur Bata, Malabo puis dans les capitales provinciales et à terme jusque dans les municipalités secondaires
- le secteur électrique avec notamment avec le démarrage de la construction de la centrale hydroélectrique de Djibloho par Sinohydro.
La concurrence est rude dans le secteur du BTP mais nos entreprises ont su s’imposer malgré les firmes chinoises qui s’appuient notamment sur une ligne de crédit concessionnelle de 2 milliards de USD. Le secteur pétrolier est quant à lui opéré depuis Houston et s’approvisionne directement à l’étranger sans beaucoup recourir aux circuits locaux. La réflexion sur la diversification de l’économie est lancée mais la réalité des affaires reste un environnement difficile (harcèlement administratif, fiscalité concentrée sur un petit nombre d’opérateurs du secteur formel, cadre juridique incertain,…) qui décourage les non-initiés et ne favorise pas nécessairement l’arrivée région de nouveaux dans les secteurs productifs. Dans l’immédiat, ce sont certainement dans les secteurs des services (formation professionnelle, maintenance, gestion des infrastructures,…) que les besoins sont les plus urgents.

Pascal FOURCAUT
Chef des services économiques pour l’Afrique Centrale


Source: http://www.missioneco.org/gabon/documents_new.asp?V=3_PDF_136876

Lol Matt face it...you're cornered. Either EQ has such a high GDP and it all goes to the privileged few or it does not. Which one will it be?

Lol Matt face it...you're cornered. Either EQ has such a high GDP and it all goes to the privileged few or it does not. Which one will it be?

In the end its irrelevent, because that doesn't make it any richer. When the wealth doesn't trickle down the masses how is it different from when theirs no generation of wealth at all?

In the end its irrelevent, because that doesn't make it any richer. When the wealth doesn't trickle down the masses how is it different from when theirs no generation of wealth at all?

I could tell you and give you statistics till it blows your head off, you won´t believe it even from serious sources articles, you won´t believe it! :ohno:

How about taking up the discussion in ten years time and see where the country is then!?;)

We won´t reach any point of convergence in the meantime, so there is no use talking matters over, it is a waste of time and energy!

So let it grass over!

I could tell you and give you statistics till it blows your head off, you won´t believe it even from serious sources articles, you won´t believe it! :ohno:

How about taking up the discussion in ten years time and see where the country is then!?;)

We won´t reach any point of convergence in the meantime, so there is no use talking matters over, it is a waste of time and energy!

So let it grass over!

I read your french article (I speak french :)) but I'm looking at things through a present day scope, not looking into the future. Today, this tiny nation that produces a ton of oil as generated alot of wealth. But Generating and spreading are two very different things. My arguments never questioned whether EQ was growing or not but examining its present status.

I read your french article (I speak french:) ) but I'm looking at things through a present day scope, not looking into the future. Today, this tiny nation that produces a ton of oil as generated alot of wealth. But Generating and spreading are two very different things. My arguments never questioned whether EQ was growing or not but examining its present status.

No, your were looking at the past and in a fairly one-dimensional way and your future look on EQ was very bleak which annoyed me!

But there is also another side, a country not rebuilding but just building....Chinese investors are everywhere in EQ these days...and things are getting better and better, not as fast as I wish it was the case...but it is improving! EQ will be like Oman today in about 10-15 years time!

Europe needed hundreds of years to develop, Asia needed two generations why can´t some African countries make it in a generation?!

You will never see big industries in EQ but if its HDI passes the 0.8 mark (which is possible in 10-15 years), we have every reason to be happy for the nation and its people.:)

Equatorial Guinea
Human development index, 1995 0.519
Human development index, 2000 0.643

Answering you Matt, if EG makes the same leap as what it did during 1995-2000, I believe it will reach high HDI ( and Newly industrialized nation status ) in less than 15 years ! :)

Actually what really happened from 1995 to 2000 in EG ? I think that is the biggest rise ever recorded in HDI history .

courtesy of the Latin American forum.

PIB NOMINAL 2006

Rank Country GDP (millions of USD)
— Gross world product 48,144,466
— European Union 14,527,140
1 United States 13,244,550
2 Japan 4,367,459
3 Germany 2,897,032
4 People's Republic of China 2,630,113 2
5 United Kingdom 2,373,685
6 France 2,231,631
7 Italy 1,852,585
8 Canada 1,269,096
9 Spain 1,225,750
10 Brazil 1,067,706
11 Russia 979,048
12 India 886,867
13 South Korea 884,267
14 Mexico 840,012
15 Australia 754,816 1
16 Netherlands 663,119
17 Belgium 393,590 1
18 Turkey 392,424
19 Sweden 385,293 1
20 Switzerland 377,240
21 Indonesia 364,239
22 Republic of China (Taiwan) 355,708
23 Saudi Arabia 348,604 1
24 Poland 338,689 1
25 Norway 335,281
26 Austria 321,934
27 Greece 307,709
28 Denmark 276,611
29 South Africa 255,155
30 Ireland 222,080
31 Argentina 212,702 1
32 Iran 212,492 1
33 Finland 210,837 1
34 Thailand 206,258
35 Portugal 194,989
36 Hong Kong, PRC 189,538
37 Venezuela 181,608 1
38 United Arab Emirates 168,263
39 Malaysia 150,923
40 Chile 145,205
41 Czech Republic 141,801
42 Israel 140,195
43 Colombia 135,075
44 Singapore 132,155
45 Pakistan 128,996 1
46 Romania 121,901
47 Philippines 116,931
48 Nigeria 115,350 1
49 Algeria 114,322 1
50 Hungary 114,273 1
51 Egypt 107,375 1
52 Ukraine 106,072
53 New Zealand 103,380
54 Kuwait 96,132 1
55 Peru 93,268
56 Kazakhstan 77,237
57 Bangladesh 65,216
58 Vietnam 60,995
59 Morocco 57,407
60 Slovakia 54,969
61 Qatar 52,722
62 Libya 50,330 1
63 Angola 43,759 1
64 Croatia 42,456
65 Luxembourg 40,577
66 Ecuador 40,447
67 Sudan 37,564 1
68 Slovenia 37,340
69 Belarus 36,944
70 Oman 35,992 1
71 Guatemala 35,304
72 Dominican Republic 31,600 1
73 Serbia 31,589 1
74 Syria 31,505 1
75 Tunisia 30,620 1
76 Bulgaria 30,608
77 Lithuania 29,784
78 Sri Lanka 26,794
79 Kenya 23,1871
80 Lebanon 22,622 1
81 Turkmenistan 21,846 1
82 Costa Rica 21,384
83 Trinidad and Tobago 19,935 1
84 Azerbaijan 19,817
85 Latvia 19,621 1
86 Uruguay 19,221
87 Yemen 18,700
88 Cameroon 18,372 1
89 El Salvador 18,341
90 Cyprus 18,235
91 Côte d'Ivoire 17,339
92 Panama 17,113 1
93 Iceland 16,579
94 Estonia 16,410
95 Uzbekistan 16,088
96 Bahrain 16,065 1
97 Jordan 14,318
98 Ethiopia 13,315 1
99 Myanmar 13,002 1
100 Ghana 12,894 1
101 Tanzania 12,787
102 Brunei Darussalam 11,438
103 Bosnia and Herzegovina 11,396
104 Zambia 10,942 1
105 Bolivia 10,828
106 Botswana 10,808 1
107 Jamaica 10,565
108 Uganda 9,443
109 Senegal 9,242 1
110 Equatorial Guinea 9,135 1
111 Albania 9,133 1
112 Gabon 9,124 1
113 Honduras 8,981
114 Paraguay 8,773
115 Democratic Republic of the Congo 8,543
116 Afghanistan 8,399 1
117 Nepal 7,994
118 Georgia 7,830
119 Republic of the Congo 7,399
120 Mozambique 7,296 1
121 Cambodia 7,096 1
122 Chad 6,547 1
123 Armenia 6,410
124 Mauritius 6,402
125 Namibia 6,316 1
126 Republic of Macedonia 6,248
127 The Bahamas 6,223 1
128 Mali 6,191
129 Malta 6,085
130 Burkina Faso 6,055 1
131 Zimbabwe 5,540 1
132 Madagascar 5,489
133 Nicaragua 5,369 1
134 Benin 4,760 1
135 Haiti 4,473 1
136 Papua New Guinea 4,338 1
137 Niger 3,550 1
138 Laos 3,437 1
139 Barbados 3,386 1
140 Guinea 3,317 1
141 Moldova 3,242
142 Netherlands Antilles 3,204 1
143 Fiji 2,977 1
144 Kyrgyzstan 2,822
145 Tajikistan 2,811
146 Mongolia 2,803 1
147 Mauritania 2,663
148 Swaziland 2,637 1
149 Rwanda 2,397 1
150 Malawi 2,238
151 Togo 2,210
152 Suriname 2,112 1
153 Lesotho 1,634 1
154 Cape Verde 1,150 1
155 Central African Republic 1,488 1
156 Sierra Leone 1,419 1
157 Belize 1,213 1
158 Eritrea 1,160 1
159 Maldives 988
160 Bhutan 983 1
161 Antigua and Barbuda 962
162 Saint Lucia 933
163 Burundi 908 1
164 Guyana 870 1
165 Djibouti 768 1
166 Seychelles 749 1
167 Liberia 622
168 Grenada 529 1
169 The Gambia 507 1
170 Saint Kitts and Nevis 487 1
171 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 466 1
172 Comoros 402
173 Vanuatu 387 1
174 Samoa 365
175 East Timor 356 1
176 Solomon Islands 321
177 Guinea-Bissau 305 1
178 Dominica 300 1
179 Tonga 224
180 São Tomé and Príncipe 79 1
181 Kiribati 60 1


PIB PPP 2006 /2007/2008 <--- projeções
1 Estados Unidos 12.954.713 13.543.330 14.045.507
2 China 10.147.333 11.606.336 12.988.640
3 India 4.231.583 4.726.537 5.210.206
4 Japón 4.155.548 4.346.080 4.494.659
5 Alemania 2.583.156 2.714.469 2.816.044
6 Reino Unido 2.148.069 2.270.884 2.363.972
7 Francia 1.952.630 2.040.109 2.116.969
8 Brasil 1.881.277 2.013.893 2.131.608
9 Italia 1.809.486 1.888.492 1.947.008
10 Rusia 1.738.981 1.908.739 2.068.083
11 España 1.232.236 1.310.206 1.369.535
12 México 1.183.956 1.249.738 1.309.568
13 Corea del Sur 1.163.191 1.250.490 1.330.218
14 Canadá 1.157.092 1.217.069 1.266.904
15 Indonesia 967.317 1.053.696 1.137.372
16 Taiwán 702.015 749.943 792.213
17 Australia 682.195 730.590 771.454
18 Turquía 670.855 722.581 773.713
19 Argentina 626.665 691.054 741.713
20 Sudáfrica 618.125 663.950 703.709
21 Tailandia 604.575 645.228 685.754
22 Países Bajos 603.711 635.633 663.106
23 Irán 595.440 647.592 698.587
24 Polonia 577.801 631.833 676.803
25 Filipinas 466.632 509.061 547.692
26 Pakistán 426.489 465.416 504.269
27 Arabia Saudita 391.126 417.669 443.274
28 Colombia 386.353 422.483 450.231
29 Bélgica 367.522 386.895 401.261
30 Grecia 367.153 391.395 412.521
31 Ucrania 365.327 399.866 428.973
32 Egipto 353.112 387.900 423.464
33 Bangladesh 332.497 360.965 389.417
34 Suecia 316.548 336.409 351.830
35 Malasia 315.583 342.344 367.789
36 Austria 300.506 318.428 332.006
37 Vietnam 286.390 318.091 350.147
38 Suiza 282.040 296.259 306.076
39 Hong Kong 267.151 289.748 308.498
40 Argelia 259.476 278.889 298.448
41 Portugal 242.807 253.557 262.472
42 República Checa 240.192 260.305 276.889
43 Rumania 219.096 238.910 257.640
44 Israel 215.853 232.753 245.779
45 Chile 209.852 227.879 243.425
46 Noruega 207.033 219.710 231.994
47 Hungría 202.009 211.575 221.058
48 Venezuela 201.674 223.430 240.946
49 Dinamarca 200.367 209.373 216.153
50 Perú 189.487 207.985 224.290
51 Irlanda 189.198 202.918 212.562
52 Finlandia 186.511 199.562 209.152
53 Nigeria 183.871 196.760 216.245
54 Marruecos 175.461 184.489 198.785
55 Singapur 147.855 163.075 175.537
56 Kazajistán 144.526 161.155 176.658
57 Emiratos Árabes Unidos 144.249 159.326 172.807
58 Myanmar 129.601 140.209 148.345
59 Nueva Zelanda 107.241 113.113 117.696
60 Sri Lanka 106.509 116.360 126.073
61 Sudán 100.730 114.929 129.447
62 Eslovaquia 96.937 108.237 118.199
63 Túnez 91.291 99.228 107.185
64 Bielorrusia 88.693 98.080 106.168
65 Etiopía 84.299 95.583 106.602
66 Siria 81.910 87.288 92.126
67 República Dominicana 81.119 89.870 95.544
68 Bulgaria 77.094 83.798 90.260
69 Libia 76.705 85.904 93.402
70 Ecuador 65.465 68.939 72.532
71 Kuwait 64.662 68.629 73.169
72 Croacia 64.491 69.866 74.419
73 Uzbekistán 61.009 68.091 74.468
74 Ghana 59.678 65.103 70.785
75 Guatemala 56.282 60.506 64.203
76 Angola 56.203 70.965 91.825
77 Lituania 55.573 61.568 66.708
78 Azerbaiyán 54.932 72.858 91.315
79 Costa Rica 52.215 56.777 60.650
80 Serbia 50.165 54.547 58.268
81 República Democrática del Congo 49.920 54.532 60.165
82 Eslovenia 49.396 53.406 56.374
83 Uganda 49.047 53.438 57.886
84 Omán 48.085 52.268 56.512
85 Camboya 47.788 53.676 58.812
86 Kenia 46.205 50.440 54.653
87 Nepal 45.937 48.300 51.104
88 Turkmenistán 43.584 49.180 55.036
89 Camerún 40.131 42.731 45.777
90 El Salvador 39.210 41.911 44.259
91 Uruguay 38.302 41.334 43.649
92 Luxemburgo 37.666 40.719 43.167
93 Bosnia y Herzegovina 36.554 39.673 42.998
94 Letonia 36.269 41.108 44.397
95 Afganistán 35.980 41.717 46.001
96 Paraguay 31.579 34.014 35.988
97 Jordania 31.413 34.158 36.835
98 Costa de Marfil 31.028 32.355 34.155
99 Tanzania 30.807 33.860 37.031
100 Qatar 30.697 35.971 41.772
101 Mozambique 29.947 32.870 35.781
102 Zimbabue 29.188 28.098 n/a
103 Panamá 28.222 31.411 34.769
104 Bolivia 28.221 30.093 32.256
105 Estonia 26.480 29.345 31.635
106 Botsuana 24.692 26.587 28.454
107 Honduras 23.689 25.613 26.943
108 Senegal 23.650 25.508 27.435
109 Guinea 23.036 23.997 25.650
110 Chipre 23.006 24.497 25.844
111 Nicaragua 22.974 24.547 26.157
112 Trinidad y Tobago 22.711 24.695 26.592
113 Líbano 21.384 22.373 23.557
114 Yemen 21.280 22.615 24.005
115 Guinea Ecuatorial 21.278 24.034 26.428
116 Burkina Faso 18.871 20.511 22.132
117 Madagascar 18.281 19.964 21.787
118 Albania 18.045 19.621 21.160
119 Bahréin 18.028 19.752 21.405
120 Armenia 17.568 20.022 22.406
121 Namibia 17.566 18.880 20.100
122 Malí 16.695 18.011 19.209
123 Mauricio 16.622 17.856 19.015
124 Papúa Nueva Guinea 16.316 17.608 18.630
125 Chad 16.196 16.864 17.861
126 Georgia 16.030 18.253 20.240
127 ARY Macedonia 15.689 16.905 18.060
128 Haití 15.602 16.518 17.520
129 Laos 14.074 15.460 16.922
130 Ruanda 13.279 14.238 15.155
131 Zambia 12.914 14.038 15.168
132 Níger 12.471 13.514 14.485
133 Islandia 12.341 12.920 13.132
134 Jamaica 12.013 12.499 12.969
135 Kirguistán 11.043 12.178 13.257
136 Benín 10.690 11.408 12.217
137 Gabón 10.281 11.056 11.726
138 Brunéi 9.729 10.169 10.586
139 Moldavia 9.715 10.464 11.178
140 Tayikistán 9.534 10.510 11.547
141 Togo 9.486 10.013 10.544
142 Malawi 9.273 10.033 10.737
143 Malta 8.900 9.426 9.841
144 Mongolia 7.495 8.342 9.123
145 Mauritania 7.241 7.493 7.962
146 Bahamas 6.724 7.111 7.524
147 Suazilandia 6.141 6.360 6.537
148 Lesoto 5.419 5.831 6.241
149 Barbados 5.281 5.643 5.896
150 Fiyi 5.276 5.244 5.437
151 Burundi 5.172 5.492 5.913
152 República Centroafricana 5.066 5.405 5.733
153 Sierra Leona 4.995 5.502 5.991
154 República del Congo 4.972 5.291 5.774
155 Eritrea 4.730 4.915 5.068
156 Guyana 3.798 4.114 4.378
157 Cabo Verde 3.561 3.905 4.271
158 Bután 3.492 4.385 4.809
159 Gambia 3.475 3.816 4.114
160 Surinam 3.401 3.674 3.887
161 Maldivas 3.038 3.288 3.496
162 Belice 2.360 2.520 2.640
163 Yibuti 1.897 2.039 2.194
164 Timor Oriental 1.695 2.215 2.340
165 Seychelles 1.637 1.783 1.921
166 Comoras 1.281 1.327 1.391
167 Guinea-Bissau 1.247 1.311 1.362
168 Antigua y Barbuda 1.210 1.289 1.335
169 Santa Lucía 1.206 1.280 1.358
170 Samoa 1.205 1.273 1.341
171 Islas Salomón 1.042 1.127 1.194
172 Granada 976 1.031 1.091
173 San Vicente y las Granadinas 891 954 1.031
174 Tonga 844 836 857
175 Vanuatu 784 844 893
176 San Cristóbal y Nieves 675 720 763
177 Santo Tomé y Príncipe 525 571 616
178 Dominica 419 443 464
179 Kiribati 238 251 259
180 Liberia 62 70 78

courtesy of the Latin American forum.

PIB NOMINAL 2006

Rank Country GDP (millions of USD)
— Gross world product 48,144,466
— European Union 14,527,140
1 United States 13,244,550
2 Japan 4,367,459
3 Germany 2,897,032
4 People's Republic of China 2,630,113 2
5 United Kingdom 2,373,685
6 France 2,231,631
7 Italy 1,852,585
8 Canada 1,269,096
9 Spain 1,225,750
10 Brazil 1,067,706
11 Russia 979,048
12 India 886,867
13 South Korea 884,267
14 Mexico 840,012
15 Australia 754,816 1
16 Netherlands 663,119
17 Belgium 393,590 1
18 Turkey 392,424
19 Sweden 385,293 1
20 Switzerland 377,240
21 Indonesia 364,239
22 Republic of China (Taiwan) 355,708
23 Saudi Arabia 348,604 1
24 Poland 338,689 1
25 Norway 335,281
26 Austria 321,934
27 Greece 307,709
28 Denmark 276,611
29 South Africa 255,155
30 Ireland 222,080
31 Argentina 212,702 1
32 Iran 212,492 1
33 Finland 210,837 1
34 Thailand 206,258
35 Portugal 194,989
36 Hong Kong, PRC 189,538
37 Venezuela 181,608 1
38 United Arab Emirates 168,263
39 Malaysia 150,923
40 Chile 145,205
41 Czech Republic 141,801
42 Israel 140,195
43 Colombia 135,075
44 Singapore 132,155
45 Pakistan 128,996 1
46 Romania 121,901
47 Philippines 116,931
48 Nigeria 115,350 1
49 Algeria 114,322 1
50 Hungary 114,273 1
51 Egypt 107,375 1
52 Ukraine 106,072
53 New Zealand 103,380
54 Kuwait 96,132 1
55 Peru 93,268
56 Kazakhstan 77,237
57 Bangladesh 65,216
58 Vietnam 60,995
59 Morocco 57,407
60 Slovakia 54,969
61 Qatar 52,722
62 Libya 50,330 1
63 Angola 43,759 1
64 Croatia 42,456
65 Luxembourg 40,577
66 Ecuador 40,447
67 Sudan 37,564 1
68 Slovenia 37,340
69 Belarus 36,944
70 Oman 35,992 1
71 Guatemala 35,304
72 Dominican Republic 31,600 1
73 Serbia 31,589 1
74 Syria 31,505 1
75 Tunisia 30,620 1
76 Bulgaria 30,608
77 Lithuania 29,784
78 Sri Lanka 26,794
79 Kenya 23,1871
80 Lebanon 22,622 1
81 Turkmenistan 21,846 1
82 Costa Rica 21,384
83 Trinidad and Tobago 19,935 1
84 Azerbaijan 19,817
85 Latvia 19,621 1
86 Uruguay 19,221
87 Yemen 18,700
88 Cameroon 18,372 1
89 El Salvador 18,341
90 Cyprus 18,235
91 Côte d'Ivoire 17,339
92 Panama 17,113 1
93 Iceland 16,579
94 Estonia 16,410
95 Uzbekistan 16,088
96 Bahrain 16,065 1
97 Jordan 14,318
98 Ethiopia 13,315 1
99 Myanmar 13,002 1
100 Ghana 12,894 1
101 Tanzania 12,787
102 Brunei Darussalam 11,438
103 Bosnia and Herzegovina 11,396
104 Zambia 10,942 1
105 Bolivia 10,828
106 Botswana 10,808 1
107 Jamaica 10,565
108 Uganda 9,443
109 Senegal 9,242 1
110 Equatorial Guinea 9,135 1
111 Albania 9,133 1
112 Gabon 9,124 1
113 Honduras 8,981
114 Paraguay 8,773
115 Democratic Republic of the Congo 8,543
116 Afghanistan 8,399 1
117 Nepal 7,994
118 Georgia 7,830
119 Republic of the Congo 7,399
120 Mozambique 7,296 1
121 Cambodia 7,096 1
122 Chad 6,547 1
123 Armenia 6,410
124 Mauritius 6,402
125 Namibia 6,316 1
126 Republic of Macedonia 6,248
127 The Bahamas 6,223 1
128 Mali 6,191
129 Malta 6,085
130 Burkina Faso 6,055 1
131 Zimbabwe 5,540 1
132 Madagascar 5,489
133 Nicaragua 5,369 1
134 Benin 4,760 1
135 Haiti 4,473 1
136 Papua New Guinea 4,338 1
137 Niger 3,550 1
138 Laos 3,437 1
139 Barbados 3,386 1
140 Guinea 3,317 1
141 Moldova 3,242
142 Netherlands Antilles 3,204 1
143 Fiji 2,977 1
144 Kyrgyzstan 2,822
145 Tajikistan 2,811
146 Mongolia 2,803 1
147 Mauritania 2,663
148 Swaziland 2,637 1
149 Rwanda 2,397 1
150 Malawi 2,238
151 Togo 2,210
152 Suriname 2,112 1
153 Lesotho 1,634 1
154 Cape Verde 1,150 1
155 Central African Republic 1,488 1
156 Sierra Leone 1,419 1
157 Belize 1,213 1
158 Eritrea 1,160 1
159 Maldives 988
160 Bhutan 983 1
161 Antigua and Barbuda 962
162 Saint Lucia 933
163 Burundi 908 1
164 Guyana 870 1
165 Djibouti 768 1
166 Seychelles 749 1
167 Liberia 622
168 Grenada 529 1
169 The Gambia 507 1
170 Saint Kitts and Nevis 487 1
171 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 466 1
172 Comoros 402
173 Vanuatu 387 1
174 Samoa 365
175 East Timor 356 1
176 Solomon Islands 321
177 Guinea-Bissau 305 1
178 Dominica 300 1
179 Tonga 224
180 São Tomé and Príncipe 79 1
181 Kiribati 60 1


PIB PPP 2006 /2007/2008 <--- projeções
1 Estados Unidos 12.954.713 13.543.330 14.045.507
2 China 10.147.333 11.606.336 12.988.640
3 India 4.231.583 4.726.537 5.210.206
4 Japón 4.155.548 4.346.080 4.494.659
5 Alemania 2.583.156 2.714.469 2.816.044
6 Reino Unido 2.148.069 2.270.884 2.363.972
7 Francia 1.952.630 2.040.109 2.116.969
8 Brasil 1.881.277 2.013.893 2.131.608
9 Italia 1.809.486 1.888.492 1.947.008
10 Rusia 1.738.981 1.908.739 2.068.083
11 España 1.232.236 1.310.206 1.369.535
12 México 1.183.956 1.249.738 1.309.568
13 Corea del Sur 1.163.191 1.250.490 1.330.218
14 Canadá 1.157.092 1.217.069 1.266.904
15 Indonesia 967.317 1.053.696 1.137.372
16 Taiwán 702.015 749.943 792.213
17 Australia 682.195 730.590 771.454
18 Turquía 670.855 722.581 773.713
19 Argentina 626.665 691.054 741.713
20 Sudáfrica 618.125 663.950 703.709
21 Tailandia 604.575 645.228 685.754
22 Países Bajos 603.711 635.633 663.106
23 Irán 595.440 647.592 698.587
24 Polonia 577.801 631.833 676.803
25 Filipinas 466.632 509.061 547.692
26 Pakistán 426.489 465.416 504.269
27 Arabia Saudita 391.126 417.669 443.274
28 Colombia 386.353 422.483 450.231
29 Bélgica 367.522 386.895 401.261
30 Grecia 367.153 391.395 412.521
31 Ucrania 365.327 399.866 428.973
32 Egipto 353.112 387.900 423.464
33 Bangladesh 332.497 360.965 389.417
34 Suecia 316.548 336.409 351.830
35 Malasia 315.583 342.344 367.789
36 Austria 300.506 318.428 332.006
37 Vietnam 286.390 318.091 350.147
38 Suiza 282.040 296.259 306.076
39 Hong Kong 267.151 289.748 308.498
40 Argelia 259.476 278.889 298.448
41 Portugal 242.807 253.557 262.472
42 República Checa 240.192 260.305 276.889
43 Rumania 219.096 238.910 257.640
44 Israel 215.853 232.753 245.779
45 Chile 209.852 227.879 243.425
46 Noruega 207.033 219.710 231.994
47 Hungría 202.009 211.575 221.058
48 Venezuela 201.674 223.430 240.946
49 Dinamarca 200.367 209.373 216.153
50 Perú 189.487 207.985 224.290
51 Irlanda 189.198 202.918 212.562
52 Finlandia 186.511 199.562 209.152
53 Nigeria 183.871 196.760 216.245
54 Marruecos 175.461 184.489 198.785
55 Singapur 147.855 163.075 175.537
56 Kazajistán 144.526 161.155 176.658
57 Emiratos Árabes Unidos 144.249 159.326 172.807
58 Myanmar 129.601 140.209 148.345
59 Nueva Zelanda 107.241 113.113 117.696
60 Sri Lanka 106.509 116.360 126.073
61 Sudán 100.730 114.929 129.447
62 Eslovaquia 96.937 108.237 118.199
63 Túnez 91.291 99.228 107.185
64 Bielorrusia 88.693 98.080 106.168
65 Etiopía 84.299 95.583 106.602
66 Siria 81.910 87.288 92.126
67 República Dominicana 81.119 89.870 95.544
68 Bulgaria 77.094 83.798 90.260
69 Libia 76.705 85.904 93.402
70 Ecuador 65.465 68.939 72.532
71 Kuwait 64.662 68.629 73.169
72 Croacia 64.491 69.866 74.419
73 Uzbekistán 61.009 68.091 74.468
74 Ghana 59.678 65.103 70.785
75 Guatemala 56.282 60.506 64.203
76 Angola 56.203 70.965 91.825
77 Lituania 55.573 61.568 66.708
78 Azerbaiyán 54.932 72.858 91.315
79 Costa Rica 52.215 56.777 60.650
80 Serbia 50.165 54.547 58.268
81 República Democrática del Congo 49.920 54.532 60.165
82 Eslovenia 49.396 53.406 56.374
83 Uganda 49.047 53.438 57.886
84 Omán 48.085 52.268 56.512
85 Camboya 47.788 53.676 58.812
86 Kenia 46.205 50.440 54.653
87 Nepal 45.937 48.300 51.104
88 Turkmenistán 43.584 49.180 55.036
89 Camerún 40.131 42.731 45.777
90 El Salvador 39.210 41.911 44.259
91 Uruguay 38.302 41.334 43.649
92 Luxemburgo 37.666 40.719 43.167
93 Bosnia y Herzegovina 36.554 39.673 42.998
94 Letonia 36.269 41.108 44.397
95 Afganistán 35.980 41.717 46.001
96 Paraguay 31.579 34.014 35.988
97 Jordania 31.413 34.158 36.835
98 Costa de Marfil 31.028 32.355 34.155
99 Tanzania 30.807 33.860 37.031
100 Qatar 30.697 35.971 41.772
101 Mozambique 29.947 32.870 35.781
102 Zimbabue 29.188 28.098 n/a
103 Panamá 28.222 31.411 34.769
104 Bolivia 28.221 30.093 32.256
105 Estonia 26.480 29.345 31.635
106 Botsuana 24.692 26.587 28.454
107 Honduras 23.689 25.613 26.943
108 Senegal 23.650 25.508 27.435
109 Guinea 23.036 23.997 25.650
110 Chipre 23.006 24.497 25.844
111 Nicaragua 22.974 24.547 26.157
112 Trinidad y Tobago 22.711 24.695 26.592
113 Líbano 21.384 22.373 23.557
114 Yemen 21.280 22.615 24.005
115 Guinea Ecuatorial 21.278 24.034 26.428
116 Burkina Faso 18.871 20.511 22.132
117 Madagascar 18.281 19.964 21.787
118 Albania 18.045 19.621 21.160
119 Bahréin 18.028 19.752 21.405
120 Armenia 17.568 20.022 22.406
121 Namibia 17.566 18.880 20.100
122 Malí 16.695 18.011 19.209
123 Mauricio 16.622 17.856 19.015
124 Papúa Nueva Guinea 16.316 17.608 18.630
125 Chad 16.196 16.864 17.861
126 Georgia 16.030 18.253 20.240
127 ARY Macedonia 15.689 16.905 18.060
128 Haití 15.602 16.518 17.520
129 Laos 14.074 15.460 16.922
130 Ruanda 13.279 14.238 15.155
131 Zambia 12.914 14.038 15.168
132 Níger 12.471 13.514 14.485
133 Islandia 12.341 12.920 13.132
134 Jamaica 12.013 12.499 12.969
135 Kirguistán 11.043 12.178 13.257
136 Benín 10.690 11.408 12.217
137 Gabón 10.281 11.056 11.726
138 Brunéi 9.729 10.169 10.586
139 Moldavia 9.715 10.464 11.178
140 Tayikistán 9.534 10.510 11.547
141 Togo 9.486 10.013 10.544
142 Malawi 9.273 10.033 10.737
143 Malta 8.900 9.426 9.841
144 Mongolia 7.495 8.342 9.123
145 Mauritania 7.241 7.493 7.962
146 Bahamas 6.724 7.111 7.524
147 Suazilandia 6.141 6.360 6.537
148 Lesoto 5.419 5.831 6.241
149 Barbados 5.281 5.643 5.896
150 Fiyi 5.276 5.244 5.437
151 Burundi 5.172 5.492 5.913
152 República Centroafricana 5.066 5.405 5.733
153 Sierra Leona 4.995 5.502 5.991
154 República del Congo 4.972 5.291 5.774
155 Eritrea 4.730 4.915 5.068
156 Guyana 3.798 4.114 4.378
157 Cabo Verde 3.561 3.905 4.271
158 Bután 3.492 4.385 4.809
159 Gambia 3.475 3.816 4.114
160 Surinam 3.401 3.674 3.887
161 Maldivas 3.038 3.288 3.496
162 Belice 2.360 2.520 2.640
163 Yibuti 1.897 2.039 2.194
164 Timor Oriental 1.695 2.215 2.340
165 Seychelles 1.637 1.783 1.921
166 Comoras 1.281 1.327 1.391
167 Guinea-Bissau 1.247 1.311 1.362
168 Antigua y Barbuda 1.210 1.289 1.335
169 Santa Lucía 1.206 1.280 1.358
170 Samoa 1.205 1.273 1.341
171 Islas Salomón 1.042 1.127 1.194
172 Granada 976 1.031 1.091
173 San Vicente y las Granadinas 891 954 1.031
174 Tonga 844 836 857
175 Vanuatu 784 844 893
176 San Cristóbal y Nieves 675 720 763
177 Santo Tomé y Príncipe 525 571 616
178 Dominica 419 443 464
179 Kiribati 238 251 259
180 Liberia 62 70 78

Alex what is that for list??

Alex what is that for list??

PIB is spanish for GDP, their are two rankings one for GDP using the nominal method while the other uses the purchasing power of parity method.

It should also be noted that in the second rankings they have the projections from 2006-2008