I just saw a link to this today:

A plan to transform the MARC commuter rail service into a fully functional, seven-days-a-week urban transit system would cost an estimated $3.9 billion over the next three decades, according to an outline released yesterday by the Maryland Transit Administration.

And I bet folks in Annapolis are balking at the cost.

Meanwhile, NJ is planning to spend more than double that to build a single tunnel into NY. Yikes.

I wonder, though, if Maryland thinks about their possible future rail stations as possibilites for retail development, as something to bring in some sort of extra revenue, above their usage as train stations. Maybe Maryland should expand their idea of the East Baltimore station, large enough to put some retail in it.

NJ hasn't done too well with the air rights to Secaucus Junction, yet. But, with so much going on in East Baltimore, an East Baltimore station with retail might become a destination in and of itself, like Union Station.

Given the way MD has historically viewed our mass transit, I'd have to say no.

They really should, though. With a relatively small state holding such a large population that's only going to grow (and grow quickly) we really need some forward-thinkers in decision-making positions on this.

Given the way MD has historically viewed our mass transit, I'd have to say no.

They really should, though. With a relatively small state holding such a large population that's only going to grow (and grow quickly) we really need some forward-thinkers in decision-making positions on this.

a nonviolent coup replacing the MTA with people from NJ Transit?

a nonviolent coup replacing the MTA with people from NJ Transit?

I dunno. The new MTA administrator sounds like has his head on straight. I think we'd have to go a little higher, maybe get their legislature. Well, minus the more egregious forms of waste.

Three and a half billion over three decades? Considering the MARC expansion plans seem to be the focus, if not all, of the region's future transit expansion, that's pretty damn pathetic. Isn't the ICC something around 3 billion? And the new beltway interchange with 95, wasn't that 500 million? And the new lanes on 95 east of the city, wasn't that around a billion?! The state needs to get its priorities straight.

Three and a half billion over three decades? Considering the MARC expansion plans seem to be the focus, if not all, of the region's future transit expansion, that's pretty damn pathetic. Isn't the ICC something around 3 billion? And the new beltway interchange with 95, wasn't that 500 million? And the new lanes on 95 east of the city, wasn't that around a billion?! The state needs to get its priorities straight.

Yep, I do believe those figures for the interchange and the HOT lanes are correct.

For the money the state will spend on the HOT lanes and the ICC, they could probably build the majority of the lines in the Baltimore Region Transit Plan; or they could expand the NE corridor by another track or two and build a new tunnel through Baltimore.

To a lot of people in the suburbs, mass transit = Baltimore = poor blacks.

Once the perception of Baltimore changes in the general population (it's starting to), mass transit will make more sense to the people who hold the swing votes in this state (affluent liberal whites). All of the global warming stuff helps the conversation, too.

Extending the hours of rail lines to 3am on Friday/Saturday would help, too. (Newsflash: It gets drunks off the highways.)

To a lot of people in the suburbs, mass transit = Baltimore = poor blacks.

Once the perception of Baltimore changes in the general population (it's starting to), mass transit will make more sense to the people who hold the swing votes in this state (affluent liberal whites). All of the global warming stuff helps the conversation, too.

I doubt that it's "affluent liberal whites" who are withholding votes on the mass transit deal because they're not friends with the "big bad black bucks" they think are going to ride down to their communities and rape and pillage or what have you. "Liberal" isn't usually the term used to describe those you're describing.

Be that as it may, MARC != Metro/Light Rail in the minds of most, because it's not really mass transit to them. Washington power brokers, foundation leaders, opinion makers have all been seen riding it. You can't hop on and ride without paying. It zooms by at 125MPH and is pulled by state-of-the-art vehicles. So it gets a pass. (And then again, WMATA Metro always has too for the same reasons, despite where the system goes and all the people it often serves. I'd say that I don't get it, but I know that racism isn't exactly the most rational doctrine out there.)

^^ Yeah, sorry, I conflated MARC with Metro/Light Rail. Though I'm not sure too many non-MARC-riders know (or care) about the difference.

Personally, I'd love to see $3.5bil thrown towards Metro or Light Rail over the MARC. (Though I love the idea of MARC on the weekends.)

^^ Yeah, sorry, I conflated MARC with Metro/Light Rail. Though I'm not sure too many non-MARC-riders know (or care) about the difference.

Personally, I'd love to see $3.5bil thrown towards Metro or Light Rail over the MARC. (Though I love the idea of MARC on the weekends.)

If I had to pick one, I would pick metro over MARC, simply because we should be encouraging people to live closer to where they work and there's certainly plenty of room in Baltimore City and the close-in suburbs for people to move back closer. Having a better metro system would encourage that.

That being said, I don't have to choose one or the other, so MARC is also worthy of being funded. Both of them should be funded before new road projects and highway expansions. We simply do not need new roads or more lanes, and they make things worse rather than better.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-redline1026,0,5564723.story

From Saturday's Sun

Dixon, Smith call for Red Line transit funding
Mayor, county executive press General Assembly, call project 'catalyst' for growth
By Sumathi Reddy | Sun reporter
9:15 PM EDT, October 26, 2007

Mayor Sheila Dixon and Baltimore County Executive James T. Smith Jr. joined forces Friday to urge the General Assembly to devote more funds for the Red Line transit project during next week's special session.

The two leaders spoke at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center, the site of a proposed stop on the Red Line, which would provide an east-west transit line from Woodlawn to the Fells Point-Canton area.

"It's time for action on the Red Line," Dixon said in a statement. "The entire Red Line corridor has tremendous opportunities for community and economic development, but we need this transit project to act as a catalyst for smart growth."

The project is still in conceptual stages, and the mode of transportation along the corridor -- which may include buses, rail and new roads -- has not been determined.

Dixon and Smith did not ask for a specific dollar amount but want the state to step up its funding, which, combined with federal dollars, could fully fund the project.

The proposed project will cost more than $1 billion. The state has dedicated $239 million during the next six years for project planning, engineering and design and initial construction, said Jack Cahalan, a spokesman for the Maryland Department of Transportation. About $50 million of that is for construction.

Additionally, Gov. Martin O'Malley's transportation plan, to be taken up during the session, calls for adding $400 million a year to a transportation trust fund that would be used for all capital projects, including the Red Line, said Cahalan.

"Clearly, the Red Line project is a priority and has been identified as a priority by the local delegations and the city of Baltimore," said Cahalan. "But there are a number of other transit initiatives that are at similar points in the process so you've got a number of priority projects that are out there that are in need of funding."

Bayview President Gregory Schaffer also spoke about the need for the project, which would add a new East Baltimore MARC station next to the medical center.

Schaffer said the Red Line is an important part of the anticipated growth of the center, which is expected to add an additional 5,000 jobs in the next five to 10 years. "The Red Line and MARC stop will give us a direct link to the Washington D.C. area," said Schaffer. "It's just very important."

Amy Menzer, executive director of the Dundalk Renaissance Corp., and Zelda Robinson, chairwoman of the West Baltimore Coalition, also spoke in favor of immediate funding for the project.

Afred H. Foxx, Baltimore's director of transportation, said funding of the Red Line "is a top priority for transportation here in the region."

sumathi.reddy@baltsun.com

^^ Yeah, sorry, I conflated MARC with Metro/Light Rail. Though I'm not sure too many non-MARC-riders know (or care) about the difference.

Personally, I'd love to see $3.5bil thrown towards Metro or Light Rail over the MARC. (Though I love the idea of MARC on the weekends.)

If you're talking about legislators who vote --I assumed so, since Maryland doesn't put very much to referendum, and in which case, you would have been talking about average citizens specifically, I think-- I'm sure they're well aware of the difference (for instance, Howard isn't that far from Security, where the Red Line is slated to go, or from BWI, where the curren Light Rail ends, but they want MARC or WMATA Metro ... they know the difference). Otherwise, we -really- need new legislators. Well, maybe the Eastern Shore delegation might not have an intimate knowledge of MARC, but every county from Harford to PG, Howard, and Frederick better know. And care.


If I had to pick one, I would pick metro over MARC, simply because we should be encouraging people to live closer to where they work and there's certainly plenty of room in Baltimore City and the close-in suburbs for people to move back closer. Having a better metro system would encourage that.

That being said, I don't have to choose one or the other, so MARC is also worthy of being funded. Both of them should be funded before new road projects and highway expansions. We simply do not need new roads or more lanes, and they make things worse rather than better.

I'd like to see an expansion of both MARC --weekend service, service to DE/VA/far western MD, even new lines-- and local rail service in the Baltimore area. I don't think the "one vs. the other" is a good frame, either. One is a state issue, one is a local issue, but they both need to be funded. The new highway lanes won't help anything. It'll be the same old story, congestion.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-redline1026,0,5564723.story

From Saturday's Sun

<snip>

Bayview President Gregory Schaffer also spoke about the need for the project, which would add a new East Baltimore MARC station next to the medical center.

Schaffer said the Red Line is an important part of the anticipated growth of the center, which is expected to add an additional 5,000 jobs in the next five to 10 years. "The Red Line and MARC stop will give us a direct link to the Washington D.C. area," said Schaffer. "It's just very important."

Amy Menzer, executive director of the Dundalk Renaissance Corp., and Zelda Robinson, chairwoman of the West Baltimore Coalition, also spoke in favor of immediate funding for the project.
<snip>


Too bad for Bayview and Dundalk that they aren't even considering the second spur of the Red Line right now (the one that runs to Highlandtown, Bayview, Dundalk, etc.). The line as it is being considered right now ends at Canton.

:ohno:

I'd like to see an expansion of both MARC --weekend service, service to DE/VA/far western MD, even new lines-- and local rail service in the Baltimore area. I don't think the "one vs. the other" is a good frame, either. One is a state issue, one is a local issue, but they both need to be funded. The new highway lanes won't help anything. It'll be the same old story, congestion.

We agree on this, I think. I was just saying which one I would pick if only one of them was getting the funds. In reality we need both.

I'd like to see an expansion of both MARC --weekend service, service to DE/VA/far western MD, even new lines-- and local rail service in the Baltimore area. I don't think the "one vs. the other" is a good frame, either. One is a state issue, one is a local issue, but they both need to be funded. The new highway lanes won't help anything. It'll be the same old story, congestion.

I agree that both is needed. Transit authorities in Baltimore and Maryland make the same mistake every time transit is addressed. They come up with a great plan on paper, but when it comes time to actually make it happen, they focus on a single line and discard the rest of the plan. In 2002, we had a plan that included half a dozen lines and touched nearly every corner of the city. It was then narrowed to just the Red Line and the Green Line a few years later, and now the Green Line has been dropped and the plan is to build the Red Line by 2035. The way we view transit now is like building a highway to Baltimore, but then not building any roads to get around the city itself. There is just too much money invested in the failure of transit.

I'd like to see MTA organize a public campaign to get people to ride transit. More than just spouting a slogan like "Your Ride is Here" or "Go by Train," they should pick a single day and say, "Okay, on this day, everyone get out of your cars and take the bus or the metro." MTA can clean up their buses and trains, get their best drivers on the roads that day, and make sure there is enough capacity to handle everyone. If everyone does it together, people can see that not only does transit work, but that people like them are willing to use it as well. The two biggest myths that keep people off transit are that it's a sloppy system and that only poor people ride it. The best way to disspell those myths is by getting people on the buses and the trains.

I agree that both is needed. Transit authorities in Baltimore and Maryland make the same mistake every time transit is addressed. They come up with a great plan on paper, but when it comes time to actually make it happen, they focus on a single line and discard the rest of the plan.....

As with almost anything, it always comes down to money. As we speak, legislators are planning a special session to decide how to deal with a huge State budget deficit. What's not being discussed anywhere is that aside from the operating fund deficit, there is also a $20 billion transportation deficit over the upcoming 10 years or so. Personally, I think that "planning" the Red Line is a way of postponing it almost indefinitely. We are stuck with a system in which transit in the Baltimore area is lumped in with a new Bay Bridge, the ICC, roads in Garrett County and everything else in the State. I don't think much will move on any of this unless there is an authority in the Baltimore area that has its only reason for living being transit (like WMATA). Don't buy your monthly tickets for the Red line yet. We will be lucky to get just that in some reasonable time frame; much less a green, yellow, mauve or beige line. I'm somewhat positive on the Red line because politicos seem to be lining up (Smith and the Mayor, etc) but it's really going to be a while and the other lines will require another generation.

The failure of the MTA to do even the most basic things is astounding. Why is there no direct connection between metro and light rail? Why are the transit maps so complicated? You practically need a degree in MTA studies to get around. Why do the buses run on practically every street downtown and stop on every corner? And why is there no trip planner on the website? Even with existing limited resources the MTA could be doing a LOT better. And the list goes on and on...

I'd like to see an expansion of both MARC --weekend service, service to DE/VA/far western MD, even new lines-- and local rail service in the Baltimore area. I don't think the "one vs. the other" is a good frame, either. One is a state issue, one is a local issue, but they both need to be funded. The new highway lanes won't help anything. It'll be the same old story, congestion.

Agree with this completely.

The failure of the MTA to do even the most basic things is astounding. Why is there no direct connection between metro and light rail? Why are the transit maps so complicated? You practically need a degree in MTA studies to get around. Why do the buses run on practically every street downtown and stop on every corner? And why is there no trip planner on the website? Even with existing limited resources the MTA could be doing a LOT better. And the list goes on and on...

And agree with this completely, too.

The failure of the MTA to do even the most basic things is astounding. Why is there no direct connection between metro and light rail? Why are the transit maps so complicated? You practically need a degree in MTA studies to get around. Why do the buses run on practically every street downtown and stop on every corner? And why is there no trip planner on the website? Even with existing limited resources the MTA could be doing a LOT better. And the list goes on and on...

While we're on a rant, how about the times when the subway trains run the wrong way? Like the sign and voice say Owings Mills, but the train goes to Hopkins.... Or how about when the light rail is stuck and you stand there forever and nobody even drives by to tell the people waiting that the train isn't coming....or how they bought brand new ticket machines that don't take plastic or sell monthly passes (the exact same ones that NYC has that DO take plastic and sell various tickets)...or how never more than one light rail ticket machine ever works at a station....or how bus and light rail drivers won't tell you ANYTHING....grump grump grump

To the MTA’s credit on the fareboxes thing, I’m pretty sure they’re testing for a smart card, the Maryland Transit Pass (“http://www.mdtransitpass.com/”). According to the website, you’ll be able to use it on all MTA and WMTA services and WMTA Smartrip cards will be compatible with MTA fareboxes. Pretty cool. And very un-MTA-ish, if it happens and works well.

To the MTA’s credit on the fareboxes thing, I’m pretty sure they’re testing for a smart card, the Maryland Transit Pass (“http://www.mdtransitpass.com/”). According to the website, you’ll be able to use it on all MTA and WMTA services and WMTA Smartrip cards will be compatible with MTA fareboxes. Pretty cool. And very un-MTA-ish, if it happens and works well.

Does this mean another round of machine replacements? The last one took 2 years. After watching those machines being replaced and seeing that they didn't use the capability that those machines have, I just got a sinking feeling that MTA was determined to stay 10 years behind in something as basic as ticket machines.

The newish fareboxes have a spot to touch the smartcard to: http://www.mdtransitpass.com/farebox.htm