View Full Version : New York Times: Saudi King Tries to Grow Modern Ideas in Desert


Riyadhi
October 27th, 2007, 09:33 PM
Saudi King Tries to Grow Modern Ideas in Desert

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JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia, Oct. 25 — On a marshy peninsula 50 miles from this Red Sea port, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is staking $12.5 billion on a gargantuan bid to catch up with the West in science and technology.

The university is going up 50 miles away from Jiddah.
Between an oil refinery and the sea, the monarch is building from scratch a graduate research institution that will have one of the 10 largest endowments in the world, worth more than $10 billion.

Its planners say men and women will study side by side in an enclave walled off from the rest of Saudi society, the country’s notorious religious police will be barred and all religious and ethnic groups will be welcome in a push for academic freedom and international collaboration sure to test the kingdom’s cultural and religious limits.

This undertaking is directly at odds with the kingdom’s religious establishment, which severely limits women’s rights and rejects coeducation and robust liberal inquiry as unthinkable.

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For the new institution, the king has cut his own education ministry out the loop, hiring the state-owned oil giant Saudi Aramco to build the campus, create its curriculum and attract foreigners.

Supporters of what is to be called the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, or Kaust, wonder whether the king is simply building another gated island to be dominated by foreigners, like the compounds for oil industry workers that have existed here for decades, or creating an institution that will have a real impact on Saudi society and the rest of the Arab world.

“There are two Saudi Arabias,” said Jamal Khashoggi, the editor of Al Watan, a newspaper. “The question is which Saudi Arabia will take over.”

The king has broken taboos, declaring that the Arabs have fallen critically behind much of the modern world in intellectual achievement and that his country depends too much on oil and not enough on creating wealth through innovation.

“There is a deep knowledge gap separating the Arab and Islamic nations from the process and progress of contemporary global civilization,” said Abdallah S. Jumah, the chief executive of Saudi Aramco. “We are no longer keeping pace with the advances of our era.”

Traditional Saudi practice is on display at the biggest public universities, where the Islamic authorities vet the curriculum, medical researchers tread carefully around controversial subjects like evolution, and female and male students enter classrooms through separate doors and follow lectures while separated by partitions.

Old-fashioned values even seeped into the carefully staged groundbreaking ceremony on Sunday for King Abdullah’s new university, at which organizers distributed an issue of the magazine The Economist with a special advertisement for the university wrapped around the cover. State censors had physically torn from each copy an article about Saudi legal reform titled “Law of God Versus Law of Man,” leaving a jagged edge.

Despite the obstacles, the king intends to make the university a showcase for modernization. The festive groundbreaking and accompanying symposium about the future of the modern university were devised partly as a recruiting tool for international academics.

“Getting the faculty will be the biggest challenge,” said Ahmed F. Ghoniem, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who is consulting for the new university. “That will make it or break it.” Professor Ghoniem has advised the new university to lure international academics with laboratory facilities and grants they cannot find at home, but he also believes that established professors will be reluctant to leave their universities for a small enclave in the desert.

“You have to create an environment where you can connect to the outside world,” said Professor Ghoniem, who is from Egypt. “You cannot work in isolation.”

He admitted that even though he admired the idea of the new university, he would be unlikely to abandon his post at M.I.T. to move to Saudi Arabia.

Festivities at the construction site on Sunday for 1,500 dignitaries included a laser light show and a mockup of the planned campus that filled an entire room. The king laid a crystal cornerstone into a stainless steel shaft on wheels.

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Cranes tore out mangroves and pounded the swampland with 20-ton blocks into a surface firm enough to build the campus on. Inside a tent, the king, his honor guard wearing flowing robes and curved daggers, and an array of Aramco officials in suits took to a shiny stage lighted with green and blue neon tubing, like an MTV awards show. Mist from dry ice shrouded the stage, music blared in surround sound, and holographic projections served as a backdrop to some of the speeches.

From a laconic monarch known for his austerity, the pomp, along with a rare speech by the king himself, was intended to send a strong signal, according to the team charged with building and staffing the new campus within two years.

The king is lavishing the institution not only with money, but also with his full political endorsement, intended to stave off internal challenges from conservatives and to win over foreign scholars who doubt that academic freedom can thrive here.

The new project is giving hope to Saudi scholars who until the king’s push to reform education in the last few years have endured stagnant research budgets and continue to face extensive government red tape.

“Because Aramco is founding the university, I believe it will have freedom,” said Abdulmalik A. Aljinaidi, dean of the research and consultation institute at King Abdulaziz University, Jidda’s biggest, with more than 40,000 students. “For Kaust to succeed, it will have to be free of all the restrictions and bureaucracy we face as a public university.”

Even in the most advanced genetics labs at King Abdulaziz, the women wear full face coverings, and female students can meet with male advisers only in carefully controlled public “free zones” like the library. Scientists there tread carefully when they do research in genetics, stem cells or evolution, for fear of offending Islamic social mores.

Even in Jidda, the kingdom’s most liberal city, a status rooted in its history as a trading outpost, change comes slowly. This month the governor allowed families to celebrate the post-Ramadan Id al-Fitr holiday in public, effectively allowing men and women to socialize publicly on the same streets for the first time.

The religious police were accused of beating a man to death because he was suspected of selling alcohol. Conservatives have fended off efforts by women to secure the right to drive or to run for office, although women have made considerable gains in access to segregated education and workplaces.

Against this backdrop, said Mr. Khashoggi, the newspaper editor, the king has conceived of the new university as a liberalizing counterweight, whose success depends on how much it engages the rest of Saudi society. “Nobody wants to live in a ghetto, even a nice one,” Mr. Khashoggi said. “As a Saudi, I say, let’s open up.”

Upon completion, the energy-efficient campus will house 20,000 faculty and staff members, students and their families. Social rules will be more relaxed, as they are in the compounds where foreign oil workers live; women will be allowed to drive, for example. But the kingdom’s laws will still apply: Israelis, barred by law from visiting Saudi Arabia, will not be able to collaborate with the university. And one staple of campus life worldwide will be missing: alcohol.

The university president will be a foreigner, and the faculty members and graduate students at first will be overwhelmingly foreign as well. Generous scholarships will finance the 2,000 graduate students; planners expect the Saudi share of the student body to increase over the years as scholarships aimed at promising current undergraduates help groom them for graduate studies at the new university.

The university’s entire model is built around partnerships with other international universities, and faculty members are expected to have permanent bases at other research institutions abroad.

The university will also rely on a new free-market model. The faculty members will not have tenure, and almost all of them will have joint appointments. While the university will initially be awash in money, its faculty and graduate students will still have to compete with top international institutions for the limited pool of private money that underwrites most graduate research.

Suhair el-Qurashi, dean of the private all-female Dar Al Hekma College, often attacked as “bad” and “liberal,” said a vigorous example of free-thinking at the university would embolden the many Saudis who back the king’s quest to reform long-stagnant higher education.

“The king knows he will face some backlash and bad publicity,” Ms. Qurashi said. “I think the system is moving in the right direction.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/world/middleeast/26saudi.html?ref=world&pagewanted=all

huit
October 27th, 2007, 10:39 PM
This would be an amazing place to study (and live), inshAllah!

Saudi guy
October 28th, 2007, 01:19 PM
best project ever,foreign will be welcomed.

Khanrak
November 9th, 2007, 10:05 AM
I really don't think the world's top professors will come to this place, unless you give them an unbelievably huge paycheck. Most top scholars are in Europe and America, where they tend to be very liberal. I honestly can't see them moving to an ultra-conservative country where they would have no democratic, and very few civil rights. I wonder if professors would even be able to teach evolution, the very foundation of science. I know that that King intends to relax social rules, but I dont think he knows how far he'd have to go to attract Westerners. Giving women the right to drive is a start, but KSA has to do MUCH more than that to lure professors over.

And PS, the idea of men and women intermingling in an institute of higher education was considered "modern" about a century ago.

Halawala
November 9th, 2007, 10:14 AM
And PS, the idea of men and women intermingling in an institute of higher education was considered "modern" about a century ago.

Where? Yeah thats right--the USA and Europe. When did women have the right to vote in America? 1920's or so.... Imagine today, the idea of women not being able to vote in the US?! Insane, right? Considering the USA was founded 1776 and gave women the right to vote a centruy and a half later is somewhat far-fetched. What Im saying is that what might be considered "normal" in the USA can be considered "modern or extra-modern" in Saudi Arabia. What some people in America think of "normal" is actually considered "backwards" in Saudi Arabia...

What Im saying is that different countries and cultures have different levels of modernity-- Modernity itself is not defined by a concrete set of values and beliefs. Modernity iteself is as abstract as Picasso's paintings!

Riyadhi
November 9th, 2007, 06:16 PM
Don't worry Khanrak they'll come. Westerners have continuously lived in Saudi for decades. I think there are between 50 to 100 thousands of them living there as we speak. Many of them work and live in Riyadh, one of the most conservative places in the world. So I don't see a reason for them not coming to KAEC; a whole city being built from scratch to be a center of education, reasearch, logistics, finance and toursim. I think it's going to be exciting!

*UofT*
November 10th, 2007, 01:19 AM
This University is in KAEC?

Riyadhi
November 10th, 2007, 01:35 AM
^^ yes

metal gear
November 10th, 2007, 12:36 PM
a: the kingdome is trying to catch up with its roots when islam opened the doors to free thinking and science.............not to the west.

b:there is absolutly no evidence that coed is better for girls.....................the trend (in usa ) for all girl schools is rising.

c: saudi's do send all thier children to school..................do we need to say this?

d: kharnak .................i have no answer to ur OPINION'S...........take a bill. :nuts:

AtaSaudi
November 13th, 2007, 03:48 PM
Don't worry Khanrak they'll come. Westerners have continuously lived in Saudi for decades. I think there are between 50 to 100 thousands of them living there as we speak. Many of them work and live in Riyadh, one of the most conservative places in the world. So I don't see a reason for them not coming to KAEC; a whole city being built from scratch to be a center of education, reasearch, logistics, finance and toursim. I think it's going to be exciting!


To teach is different than to live !

weltmeister
November 14th, 2007, 01:28 AM
i hope it's successful!

Khanrak
November 25th, 2007, 12:36 AM
Where? Yeah thats right--the USA and Europe. When did women have the right to vote in America? 1920's or so.... Imagine today, the idea of women not being able to vote in the US?! Insane, right? Considering the USA was founded 1776 and gave women the right to vote a centruy and a half later is somewhat far-fetched. What Im saying is that what might be considered "normal" in the USA can be considered "modern or extra-modern" in Saudi Arabia. What some people in America think of "normal" is actually considered "backwards" in Saudi Arabia...

What Im saying is that different countries and cultures have different levels of modernity-- Modernity itself is not defined by a concrete set of values and beliefs. Modernity iteself is as abstract as Picasso's paintings!

I know that what we do in the West may be extra-modern to Saudis, but what I am saying is that the Saudis need to try A LOT harder to be modern... allowing the sexes to intermingle may be modern in KSA, and while it is a small step in the right direction, a LOT more must be done. The Saudis have finally caught up with our century-old views in regards to intermingling, and I hope that the King doesn't breathe a sigh of relief that he has finally modernized Saudi Arabia up to Western standards, because he has much more to do.

I am aware that standards for normalcy vary throughout the ages, but the Saudi Arabia has to present itself in a modern light, in line with standards of the Western world, in order to attract western talent. While not beheading drug dealers is an "extra-modern" idea in KSA, it would still have to adopt Western ideas of modernity to attract liberal Western professors. And speaking of voting, the KSA was ranked as the 9th most authoritarian regime in the world, and is consistently towards the very bottom of press freedom rankings.

What Americans do that Saudis might consider backwards really isnt the issue. What matters in this particular instance is what the Western world thinks of Saudi customs, because this Saudi university is trying to entice Westerners to come to KSA. It may seem unfair to say that Saudis must change in order to attract Westerners, but the Western world isnt trying to entice Saudis to come to its universities, so its actually the KSA which needs to present itself in a manner which would attract the Western talent which it seeks. Of course, the Saudis could be as tribal as they want if they just give a big enough salary, and I think this is the only hope the university has for attracting Western professors.

Just out of curiosity, what do we do here that seems so backwards to Saudis? I mean, what qualities do Americans possess that Saudis consider to be outdated?

Khanrak
November 25th, 2007, 12:44 AM
Don't worry Khanrak they'll come. Westerners have continuously lived in Saudi for decades. I think there are between 50 to 100 thousands of them living there as we speak. Many of them work and live in Riyadh, one of the most conservative places in the world. So I don't see a reason for them not coming to KAEC; a whole city being built from scratch to be a center of education, reasearch, logistics, finance and toursim. I think it's going to be exciting!

As AtaSaudi rightly pointed out, living in Saudi Arabia and working for an oil company is a much different job than taking up a teaching post in KSA, where what you teach is regulated by the government. The people who come to KSA to work for oil companies etc. are motivated by money. Professors are motivated by the desire to teach. You can make money easily in KSA, but you cant easily have an open debate over controversial topics, and academics would have a serious problem with that. Not to mention that professors are some of the very most liberal people in the West, and that the KSA, which is deeply unpopular amongst academic elites in the West, would have a hard time presenting itself in a manner which is palatable to people who by and large agree that women should be treated equally under law, and that no homosexual be put to death. Few professors know that slavery was only abolished in KSA in 1962, but other Saudi human rights issues are very well publicized in the West, and by and large, Saudi laws are deeply unpopular in almost every other part of the world. Oil workers tend not to be the most liberal parts of Western society, so its easier to entice them to move to KSA.

I am aware that Westerners come to KSA, afterall, I grew up in an expat community near Taif called Al-Hada. However, my mother recalls that many people who came to work from Western countries would leave after only a couple of years because they didn't like life in Saudi Arabia (Im of Kashmiri decent, and many Pakistanis/Kashmiris and Filipinos would stay longer in KSA than educated Westerners).

Riyadhi
November 25th, 2007, 03:48 AM
As AtaSaudi rightly pointed out, living in Saudi Arabia and working for an oil company is a much different job than taking up a teaching post in KSA, where what you teach is regulated by the government.

Q. Have you heard of KFUPM?
A. It's King Fahd University for Petrolium and Minirals. It's a university that was establish in the 1960s in Eastern Saudi Arabia. The University started with 90% western staff and faculty. They were of the top University professors in engineering and petroleum related studies. They didn't have a problem teaching engineering and geology or even English in Saudi. Now, KFUPM, it is one of the best univeristies in the Middle East and the top in many degrees.

The point is, it has been done before :)




The people who come to KSA to work for oil companies etc. are motivated by money. Professors are motivated by the desire to teach.

Money is a big factor. Trust me :)
If a unviersity professor at MIT makes $200,000 a year and I offer him $500,000 tax free plus a beach house in a western style neighborhood and a state of the art academic and research facilties. Oh trust me, he'll come :)...



You can make money easily in KSA, but you cant easily have an open debate over controversial topics, and academics would have a serious problem with that.

Q. Do you know what are the degrees that KAUST will provide?
A. It is anticipated that the university will open with five fields of studies:
- Chemical Engineering
- Applied Mathematics and Computational Science
- Mechanical Engineering
- Materials Science and Engineering
- Civil and Environmental Engineering

How in the hell would any of the above would have any controversal topics?
They will be teaching engineering and science and politics and philosophy!


Besides that: "As an element of KAUST's mission to become a 21st century University, faculty will enjoy a high degree of academic freedom and will work with University leadership to develop the educational and research programs of KAUST."

Not to mention that professors are some of the very most liberal people in the West, and that the KSA, which is deeply unpopular amongst academic elites in the West, would have a hard time presenting itself in a manner which is palatable to people who by and large agree that women should be treated equally under law, and that no homosexual be put to death.

As I said, it has been done before. And the University management already attracted an International Advisory Council who didn't have a problem with the above conerns of yours ;).

Some of he advisory memebers,

Dr. Olivier Appert
President, Institut Française du Pétrole

Prof. Shih Choon Fong
President, National University of Singapore

Dr. Karen A. Holbrook
Former President, The Ohio State University

Dr. Hiroshi Komiyama
President, The University of Tokyo

Dr. Frank Press
President Emeritus, National Academy of Sciences

Prof. Frank H. T. Rhodes
President Emeritus, Cornell University

Sir Richard Sykes
Rector, Imperial College London

Dr. Ahmed H. Zewail
1999 Nobel Laureate in Chemistry
Director, Laboratory for Molecular Science and Physical Biology,
California Institute of Technology

Dr. Marye Anne Fox
Chancellor, University of California, San Diego


Few professors know that slavery was only abolished in KSA in 1962, but other Saudi human rights issues are very well publicized in the West, and by and large, Saudi laws are deeply unpopular in almost every other part of the world. Oil workers tend not to be the most liberal parts of Western society, so its easier to entice them to move to KSA.

1. Pay them money (ALOT of it)
2. Tell you that this University will lead the change in the kingdom (make them feel that they are part of the solutoin).
3. Give them the best possibel life style elements.
4. Give them unlimited research funding and facilties.

and they will come :)


I'm sure some will bring up the human rights crap you mentioned but many will be happy to come :)...


I am aware that Westerners come to KSA, afterall, I grew up in an expat community near Taif called Al-Hada. However, my mother recalls that many people who came to work from Western countries would leave after only a couple of years because they didn't like life in Saudi Arabia (Im of Kashmiri decent, and many Pakistanis/Kashmiris and Filipinos would stay longer in KSA than educated Westerners).

I'll reply with a video,

mrhRjc7SSXY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrhRjc7SSXY

ZIG
February 8th, 2009, 08:48 AM
Saudi Arabia can build everything from the biggest to the grandest to the smallest but all of it will be nothing unless they become more open.

socrates#1fan
February 18th, 2009, 10:18 PM
The world is progressing and conservatives have always been dragged kicking and screaming.

socrates#1fan
February 18th, 2009, 10:19 PM
Saudi Arabia can build everything from the biggest to the grandest to the smallest but all of it will be nothing unless they become more open.

:cheer: