NOTE: THIS IS A THREAD FOR ALL THE GOOD PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE ILLEGALY IMPOSED SANCTIONS, RESTRICTIONS AND MEDIA BLACKOUT ON THE FREE STATE OF BELARUS BY THE SO-CALLED "INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY".

THE REST OF YOU....TAKE A WALK.





Introducing BELARUS

http://www.president.gov.by/data/press28565.gif

Capital: Minsk (1.780.000 pop.)
Area: 207.600 km2
Population:10.6 million


http://www.world-gazetteer.com/map.php?mt=1&geo=-43


http://www.belarusguide.com/images/industry/Belarus-1222-1.jpg

Minsk City business center to be constructed within 10 years
30.10.2007 17:48


The construction of Minsk City business centre should be accelerated, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko told a session involving top executives of ITERA International Group of Companies on October 30.

“The construction should be done much quicker. Twelve years is an impermissible luxury,” Alexander Lukashenko stressed.

The President instructed to complete relocation of Minsk Aircraft Repair Plant by January 1, 2010 and launch the large-scale construction in 2010. The business center will occupy an area of 300 hectares with over 1.5 million square meters of housing, thousands of offices and social facilities. Minsk City will provide over 55,000 new jobs.

According to Minsk Mayor Mikhail Pavlov, this will be the biggest project the country has ever implemented.

ITERA International Group of Companies will be the main contractor. It will set up a joint venture with the Minsk City Council. Several subcontractors will be involved in the construction as well. The investments will total $7 billion. According to chairman of the Minsk City Council Mikhail Pavlov, “this is a well calculated project” which will be fully funded by investors. The project design is estimated at $200 million. In accordance with the project, Minsk Aircraft Repair Plant will be relocated without job cuts.

The whole business center is set to be constructed within 10 years, but some facilities will be put in operation earlier.

Chief architect of Minsk Viktor Nikitin reported that the design offered by the Russian party was approved by Minsk architects and that the construction of Minsk City could be started.

Head of the ITERA International Group of Companies Igor Makarov assured the President that the company had enough assets, including financial ones, to successfully carry out the project. He also said that the company was ready to start.

On the whole, Alexander Lukashenko approved the approach to the business center construction and set a task to prepare all the necessary documents for the construction to be launched.

100 Belarusian buses to be supplied to Cuba


30.10.2007 15:56


Belarus and Cuba are boosting the trade-economic cooperation. In line with the signed contract, 100 Belarusian buses will be supplied to the Cuban market starting late 2007. 160 tractors Belarus have been already working on Cuban fields. The Belarusian machines have been supplied to that country this year, BelTA learnt from Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Cuba to Belarus Omar Medina Quintero.

To strengthen the ties with Cuba a Belarusian delegation will visit the International Fair and the 2nd Business Forum of the Non-Aligned Movement which will be held in Havana in early November.

Havana, which was the capital of the Non-Aligned Movement Summit in autumn 2006, will receive representatives of organization’s member states again. During the Havana Summit Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko voiced the important initiatives which are being implemented now. At the summit the Belarusian delegation voiced its position on strengthening the role of the Non-Aligned Movement in the modern world.

The cooperation within the framework of the Non-Aligned Movement is an important integral part of the Belarusian-Cuban cooperation, Omar Medina Quintero highlighted.

Belarus to start oil extraction in Venezuela by late 2007


29.10.2007 15:50


Before the year is out, Belarus plans to start extracting oil in Venezuela, BelTA learnt from Mikhail Osipenko, Deputy Chairman of the Belarusian petrochemical concern Belneftekhim.

He remarked, the foundation of a Belarusian-Venezuelan oil extracting venture is close to completion. “We expect a joint venture to be set up using the existing wells in Venezuela by the end of the year. Oil extraction has to be started by the end of the year,” said the official. In his words, the Venezuelan parliament is now considering the joint venture foundation documents.

Mikhail Osipenko remarked, specialists of Belorusneft company are now staying in Venezuela and will be ready to start extracting oil for the joint venture within a short time. “Everything is ready there. Those are working wells, which is why it will take little time to start working,” he explained.

Belorusneft and Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA are creating the joint oil-extracting venture. Belorusneft will contribute an equivalent of $200,000 to the charter capital of the joint venture. Experts believe, initially the oil extracted by the joint venture will be sold to PDVSA.

BelTA reported earlier, a Belarusian-Venezuelan joint venture for prospecting seismology SeismoVenBel was set up in Venezuela recently. In November 2007 the company plans to start field seismic surveys in the basin of the river Orinoco. Apart from that, a geologist party of Belorusneft is completing the evaluation of hydrocarbon resources in the Junin-1 area in the Orinoco River basin.

Belarus to Tender Nuclear Plant, Russia Interested


RUSSIA: October 22, 2007


MINSK - Belarus said on Friday it would hold a tender next year for the construction of the ex-Soviet state's first nuclear power plant, which could cost up to US$3.5 billion, and Russia signalled its interest.


Belarus has virtually no energy resources and has quarrelled with Moscow over the prices it pays for Russian gas, on which it relies heavily. President Alexander Lukashenko has long talked of diversifying sources of energy and on Thursday pointed to Japan as an ideal partner for the nuclear project.
"The government at the moment is doing preliminary work. We have offers from Western partners and we have an offer from Russia," Belarussian Prime Minister Sergei Sidorsky said after meeting his Russian counterpart, Viktor Zubkov. Earlier, Zubkov said Russia was "capable of offering the most pragmatic and safest way" of building a nuclear power plant.

Russia's ambassador to Belarus has said before Russia could provide a loan to cover the entire cost of the project.

Zubkov also said it would make sense to revisit a proposal to build a second gas export pipeline link to Europe through Belarus.

"It is probably expedient once again to revert to the question of constructing a second link, but to do that we will need to tally all resources," Zubkov said. Sidorsky said he estimated building the link could cost US$2-3 billion.

Russia's gas export monopoly Gazprom has, however, abandoned the so-called Yamal-2 link across Belarus due to low demand in Poland. It is now focusing on a project to build a Baltic subsea export line to Germany called Nord Stream.

Last week, when Lukashenko announced plans for the nuclear plant, Belarus estimated the cost at between US$2.5 billion to $2.8 billion. That estimate has now risen to US$3.5 billion.

Russian nuclear technology dominates in those countries of the former Soviet bloc that use nuclear power.

Atomstroiexport, the building contractor arm of Russia's state atomic energy agency, had previously said that it was interested in building the nuclear station. But Belarussian media reported last week that the government was also looking at French and US firms.

Belarus was heavily affected by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, which killed thousands as winds carried radiation from neighbouring Ukraine onto its territory.

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE

Belarusian Satellite to Be Launched in 2009 - Roscosmos



MINSK. Oct 23 (Interfax) - Work on a Belarusian satellite has entered its practical stage, Yury Makarov, senior official from the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos), told the press in Minsk on Tuesday before the opening of the third Belarusian space congress.
"The Belarusian satellite is already being made of steel, not only on paper," Makarov said, adding that part of the work is being done at Belarusian facilities.

The National Academy of Sciences of Belarus and Roscosmos signed a contract on the satellite, he said.

"We have offered options, there is deadline for fulfilling the order and the main thing now is to find the most effective technical solution," Makarov said.

the launch of the satellite is scheduled for 2009, he said.

Makarov said the Belarusian satellite will be launched at the same time as a Russian one.

(c) 2007 Daily News Bulletin; Moscow - English. Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.

St. Petersburg is likely to assemble Belarus’ trolleybuses

25.10.2007 18:58

http://forum.esmasoft.com/files/aksm.420.respublika.410a_606.jpg

St. Petersburg is most likely to set up a joint production of Belarusian trolleybuses, St. Petersburg Mayor told journalists October 25.

According to her, today a Belarusian new generation trolleybus is tested at St. Petersburg busiest routes. As soon as the tests are competed, the two sides will decide upon the joint production. “I find this project promising as the demand for such transport means is high in St. Petersburg as well as in Russia,” Valentina Matvienko noted.

http://www.belarusguide.com/images/industry/Belarus-1222-1.jpg
Famous one-use tractor?

This trolleybuses are extremely ugly. I'm so happy that the Sofia municipality rejected them from the auction for the new trolleybuses...

This trolleybuses are extremely ugly. I'm so happy that the Sofia municipality rejected them from the auction for the new trolleybuses...
Trolleybuses look nice if you ask me, it is quality that botheres me. We have belarusian buses here in Moscow and they look like they were assembled using nails and hammer.
We buy this crap as a form of help to belarusian regime and then this retard Lukashaneko still dares to demand something from us.

Foreign investments in Belarus to exceed $3 billion in nine months

Foreign investments in Belarus are expected to exceed $3 billion in the nine month of 2007, Deputy Prime Minister of Belarus Andrei Kobyakov told deputies of the House of Representatives of the National Assembly of Belarus on October 26.

The number of investment offers has been constantly growing. In H 1 2007 the foreign investments doubled as compared to the same time last year to reach $2.3 billion.

Capital investment soared by 16.6% in January-September. The country credit rating that Belarus received in August this year also promotes the investment inflow.

The Government attaches special importance to investments in the innovation sphere. According to Andrei Kobyakov, main investment projects of all the ministries, concerns, Belarusian oblasts and Minsk City have been considered. The number of projects on setting up new manufactures under the innovation development programme grew from 100 to 168.

2007-10-03
Lithuania is ready to invest about $1bn in Belarusian economy

Lithuania is ready to invest in the Belarusian economy about $1 billion. A relevant agreement was made at a meeting between Prime Ministers of Belarus and Lithuania Sergei Sidorsky and Gediminas Kirkilas respectively on October 3 in Vilnius.

According to the Lithuanian Prime Minister, local companies asked him to inform the Belarusian Government about their readiness to invest in Belarus.

The meeting also focused on the trade-economic cooperation between the two countries. In particular, the parties agreed to promote creation of joint Belarusian-Lithuanian ventures. The Lithuanian party was interested in the energy saving experience of Belarus. Issues on transport cooperation and visa fees for Belarusians in 2008 were high on the agenda as well.

When speaking to journalists Sergei Sidorsky said that the parties touched upon all the issues he wanted to discuss with his Lithuanian counterpart.

The Prime Ministers agreed to construct an aldehyde tanning tar factory in Belarus. “This goes in line with the strategy of upgrading the country’s woodworking companies,” Sergei Sidorsky said. In addition, a particle board manufacture will be built too.

The Lithuanian party was interested in energy-saving and energy-safety programmes implemented in Belarus and the country’s experience in cutting the GDP energy intensity. Belarus is ready to share this experience with Lithuania. In turn, the latter will share experience in using bio fuel.

The Prime Ministers also discussed development of power engineering. Lithuania is set to construct a nuclear power station in close vicinity with Belarus by 2015. According to Sergei Sidorsky the plant will use water resources of the Vitebsk oblast. Therefore Belarus believes that it also can take part in the project. “I asked the Lithuanian Government to take this fact into consideration and I found understanding here,” Sergei Sidorsky said.

The Ignalina nuclear power station will be closed in 2009. Belarus and Lithuania have agreed on setting up a working group to elaborate the issue on a depository construction. The sides discussed the construction of the depository near the Belarusian border. “Belarus prioritizes its ecological security in the issue. The experts of the working group insist that all necessary measures are undertaken to ensure such security,” the Belarusian Premier said.

After the construction of the new nuclear power plant in Lithuania, electric energy will be transited to the EU countries via the Belarusian energy networks what would be more advantageous for Lithuania than to construct own energy networks worth of 300-500 million euro.

The Prime Ministers considered cooperation in the transport area. Over the eight months of 2007 the amount transport services almost reached the 2006 level. Nearly five million tonnes of the Belarusian cargo were transported through the Lithuanian ports. Lithuania shows great interest in Belarus to use the Klaipeda port to the maximum. The talks with the participation of the Confederation of Lithuanian Manufacturers and the owner of the Klaipeda port considered the opportunities of Belarus to acquire a share holding and an access to the terminal.

The sides also agreed on holding a conference with the participation of representatives of the transport ministries of the two countries, the association of haulers of Belarus, customs services and cargo haulers. “It is necessary to consider all the issues including the one on concentrating major transport flows via the two countries and explain the opportunities of Belarus and Lithuania to transport haulers,” Sergei Sidorsky noted.

After Lithuania joins the Schengen Zone Agreement, a Lithuanian visa will cost €60. The two parties reached the agreement to simplified visa procedures for some categories of citizens, i.e. for children under 18, those who go to Lithuania on recuperation, people affected by the Chernobyl catastrophe and people living in the border zone. For them visa fees will remain the same.

Where is BELAZ? :)

MAZ (Minsk Avtomobilnij Zavod) presented its new line of tractor trailer cabs recently...

http://forum.esmasoft.com/files/s5002461_997.jpg

http://forum.esmasoft.com/files/s5002455_134.jpg

http://forum.esmasoft.com/files/___-5440_9_313.jpg

MAZ is mediocre. They aren't exactly great in design:

MAZ 103t

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/MAZ-103t_in_Minsk_2.JPG/800px-MAZ-103t_in_Minsk_2.JPG

vs.

LAZ E183

http://www.mashke.org/kievtram/pictures/trol/laz183/laz183-2909-16-20060715-sofiya-AK.jpg

I prefer the latter thank you very much.

Yeap, Crazy is trying to glorify the last dictatorship in Europe. How dignifying! You are getting more and more desperate. Just like the dying communist system.

Introducing BELARUS


Capital: Minsk (1.780.000 pop.)
Area: 207.600 km2
Population:10.6 million



Belarus has:
Population
- 2007 estimate 9,724,723 (86th)
- 1999 census 10,045,237
- Density 49/km² (142nd)
127/sq mi
Population growth rate:
Definition Field Listing
-0.41% (2007 est.)
Belarusian 81.2%, Russian 11.4%, Polish 3.9%, Ukrainian 2.4%, other 1.1% (1999 census)



Economy


Russia is planning to increase Belarusian gas prices from $47 per thousand cubic meters (tcm) to $100 per tcm for 2007, gradually increasing to world prices by 2011. Russia has also introduced an export duty on oil shipped to Belarus, which will increase gradually through 2009, and a requirement that Belarusian duties on re-exported Russian oil be shared with Russia - 70% will go to Russia in 2007, 80% in 2008, and 85% in 2009.

GDP (official exchange rate):

$28.98 billion (2006 est.)


GDP (purchasing power parity):

$83.1 billion (2006 est.



GDP - real growth rate:
9.9% (2006 est.)


GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 9.2%
industry: 41.7%
services: 49.1% (2006 est.)


Budget:

revenues: $13.24 billion
expenditures: $13.76 billion; including capital expenditures of $180 million (2006 est.)

Debt - external:
$5.929 billion (2006 est.)

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$1.099 billion (2006 est.)

Electricity - production:

29.33 billion kWh (2004)
Electricity -
consumption:
31.05 billion kWh (2004)

Current account balance:

-$1.512 billion (2006 est)

Exports - partners: (2006)
$19.84 billion f.o.b. (2006 est.)
Russia 34.7%,
Netherlands 17.7%,
UK 7.5%,
Ukraine 6.3%,
Poland 5.2%


Imports:
$22.24 billion f.o.b
Imports - partners:
Russia 58.6%,
Germany 7.5%,
Ukraine 5.5%

edit

edit

I heard that in Belarus they have more "new" trolleybuses and trams per-capita than any other former soviet state. Realistically its awful, becuase even on the streets of Moscow we still have 20+ years old trams and trolleybuses (you know the ones that dont have the light up display in the front and instead have some placecard placed behind glass)

Also check out the new Minsk trams.
http://i12.tinypic.com/52bangn.jpg

Realistically though, most trams in Minsk look like this.
http://i17.tinypic.com/5yvrayh.jpg

Yeap, Crazy is trying to glorify the last dictatorship in Europe. How dignifying! You are getting more and more desperate. Just like the dying communist system.
who r u to tell people of Belarus that they live in dictatorship?
Belorussians are satisfied with their country and their government, so it is not any of your´s business.

Belorussians are satisfied with their country and their government, .

right, like north Koreans and Cubans, do they have other choice? - they have to be satisfied and cannot protest, otherwise they are arrested for some stupid reasons.

Serbia, Belarus initial draft agreement on free trade


Belgrade, Oct 12, 2007 – The governments of Serbia and Belarus initialled today the draft agreement on free trade, based on regulations of the World Trade Organisation (WTO).


The Draft agreement prescribes that apart from WTO regulations, the two countries should also abide by EU instructions on trade, and reduce as much as possible lists of goods that will be excluded from the free trade regime.

The present level of trade exchange between Serbia and Belarus is between $40 million and $50 million in both directions, with a certain surplus on Serbia's side last year. Serbia is Belarus' main partner in southeastern Europe.

:cheers:
Other reports suggest imminent start of Minsk-Belgrade commercial flights:yes:

right, like north Koreans and Cubans, do they have other choice? - they have to be satisfied and cannot protest, otherwise they are arrested for some stupid reasons.


Do we all have another choice? Do Serbia have a choice not to enter the NATO today? Can i protest against that? Do u know who finance Belarus resistance movement? (This movement started in Serbia, than we sent allready experienced people in ex SSSR countries for campaine against regime of those countries) As far as i know, its the same organisation, OTPOR (serbian resistance) and it has the same logo.

Delfin, when a man get ellections, with about 75 % of the votes, he was not cheeting.


http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6529/otpormq1.jpg

some pictures of minsk:

http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk1.jpg
http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk2.jpg
http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk3.jpg
http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk4.jpg
http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk5.jpg
http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk6.jpg
http://www.bluesapphires.net/tour/minsk7.jpg
http://www.minsktravelguide.com/bilder/minsk_minsk.jpg
http://www.minsktravelguide.com/bilder/minsk_magic_night.jpg
http://www.minsktravelguide.com/bilder/minsk_night.jpg
http://www.orangesmile.com/tourfotos/minsk.jpg

Do we all have another choice? Do Serbia have a choice not to enter the NATO today? Can i protest against that? Do u know who finance Belarus resistance movement? (This movement started in Serbia, than we sent allready experienced people in ex SSSR countries for campaine against regime of those countries) As far as i know, its the same organisation, OTPOR (serbian resistance) and it has the same logo.

Delfin, when a man get ellections, with about 75 % of the votes, he was not cheeting.


http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6529/otpormq1.jpg

more than 75%, if you don't vote for Lukashenko you will be fired from your job, school etc. We have thousands of Belorussian students who emigrated to Poland who can confirm what its like over there.

Serbia, Belarus initial draft agreement on free trade




:cheers:
Other reports suggest imminent start of Minsk-Belgrade commercial flights:yes:

$ 40/50 million dollar trade between Serbia and Belarus is a joke. A free trade agreement Belarus will not get you anything. Sorry to say that.

True, but thats where Bulgaria/Serbia trade was just a few years ago.;)
Just last year, it increased by 100% over 2005.

right, like north Koreans and Cubans, do they have other choice? - they have to be satisfied and cannot protest, otherwise they are arrested for some stupid reasons.
they have elections and they always keep electing lukashenko?! why? are they all morons? just don´t start that bulls..t propaganda that they have to coz they will be fired left to die etc.
coz who knows who did u vote for?

i have met many Belorussian students as well who are satisfied with lukashenko and the way he leads his country. I am sure that average Belorussian live better than average Pole. They have kept so many good things from communism.

Lukashenko is funny...

Лукашенко: Последние выборы мы сфальсифицировали
23 ноября 2006 » Политика
Александр Лукашенко заявил, что минувшие президентские выборы были сфальсифицированы

Александр Лукашенко заявил, что минувшие президентские выборы были сфальсифицированы. Такое заявление он сделал 23 ноября на пресс-конференции в Минске для украинских журналистов.

"Последние выборы мы сфальсифицировали, я уже западникам это говорил, - пояснил белорусский лидер. - За президента Лукашенко проголосовало 93,5 процента. Говорят - это не европейский показатель. Мы сделали 86. Это правда было. И если сейчас начать пересчитывать бюллетени, то я не знаю, что с ними делать вообще. До выборов нам говорили, что если будут примерно европейские показатели на выборах, то мы ваши выборы признаем. Мы собирались сделать европейские показатели. Но тоже, видите, не получилось".

Как отметил президент, Запад пообещал, что если итоги будут европейские, "то все будет нормально". "Сделали европейские - ненормально", - резюмировал А.Лукашенко.

^^could u summarize it? for those who doesn´t understand

Heheheh....basically it says how during the last elections, 93.5% of the electorate voted for Lukashenko, but to please the Europeans and their various standards, the vote was falsified and the result lowered to a more "European" number of 86% :lol:

who r u to tell people of Belarus that they live in dictatorship?
Belorussians are satisfied with their country and their government, so it is not any of your´s business.
All people from former communist countries were "satisfied" to live under dictatorship because nobody asked them if they like it or not!

They have kept so many good things from communism.
Did you say good things from communism? Hah-hah, :lol::lol: there is no such a thing as a good thing from communism! You live in your fantasy world!

Did you say good things from communism? Hah-hah, :lol::lol: there is no such a thing as a good thing from communism! You live in your fantasy world!

Well there is a difference of perception of the word in exYugoslavian states and in Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Poland, f. Czechoslovakia

^^Because our fortunes have reversed?

Have they really?;)

Well there is a difference of perception of the word in exYugoslavian states and in Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Poland, f. Czechoslovakia
I never considered Yugoslavia as a communist country......

Have they really?;)

I guess Canada is too far, the visibility is too low and you can't see that well. ;)

^^Because our fortunes have reversed?
indeed !
btw new york is bit closer, but still tooo far.
and don´t be starting with this bulgaria=eu über alles , coz this is thread about Belarus.

Back to topic: there are good things in communism like free schools, education, good free hospitals etc.

and Belarus has elections so it is not dictatorship and ppl do have choice to make, and they made it.

indeed !
btw new york is bit closer, but still tooo far.
and don´t be starting with this bulgaria=eu über alles , coz this is thread about Belarus.

Wow, I wasn't even thinking about it. You seem to be the insecure one.

By the way, I am flying to Sofia on Nov. 15 to see for myself how things are on ground zero, since NY is far as you said. :)

I don't know what kind of Belarussian students you know, but I can tell you this: In the US, I met about 10 Belarussian girls who were working there on a summer program. When the time to go back came they got really sad and a few were even crying; 2 out of 10 stayed in the US with nothing - they prefereed to do this than to go back to Lukashenkoworld. Secondly, at my university in Bulgaria, there're more than 25 Belarussian students who transferred because their (private) university was closed down by the government; they were barely allowed to leave to go to Bulgaria. So, I'm not sure what you're imagining but I'm very surprised and not in a good way. :bash:

I don't know what kind of Belarussian students you know, but I can tell you this: In the US, I met about 10 Belarussian girls who were working there on a summer program. When the time to go back came they got really sad and a few were even crying; 2 out of 10 stayed in the US with nothing - they prefereed to do this than to go back to Lukashenkoworld. Secondly, at my university in Bulgaria, there're more than 25 Belarussian students who transferred because their (private) university was closed down by the government; they were barely allowed to leave to go to Bulgaria. So, I'm not sure what you're imagining but I'm very surprised and not in a good way. :bash:

Long live AUBG!!!:)

I don't know what kind of Belarussian students you know, but I can tell you this: In the US, I met about 10 Belarussian girls who were working there on a summer program. When the time to go back came they got really sad and a few were even crying; 2 out of 10 stayed in the US with nothing - they prefereed to do this than to go back to Lukashenkoworld. Secondly, at my university in Bulgaria, there're more than 25 Belarussian students who transferred because their (private) university was closed down by the government; they were barely allowed to leave to go to Bulgaria. So, I'm not sure what you're imagining but I'm very surprised and not in a good way. :bash:
well i know so many Bulgarian student who are crying on the mention of them returning to Bulgaria. And so many ppl fro Bulgaria fled to western countries and they are there without anything sleeping in parks. does this mean that Bulgaria is dictatorship?

well i know so many Bulgarian student who are crying on the mention of them returning to Bulgaria. And so many ppl fro Bulgaria fled to western countries and they are there without anything sleeping in parks. does this mean that Bulgaria is dictatorship?

Badly made up example buddy!:)

BTW we had elections in communist times too AFAIK. The candidates were BKP, OF and BZNS. Of course, BKP always won. Free elections under communism sounds like kind of blue strawberry. Finally, I don't see any connection between Bulgaria and Belarus. It's you that mentioned Bulgaria. BTW how many Bulgarians are sleeping in the parks in Western Europe, did you already see any?

there are lot of them in park of vienna, police is always on them, but that is not the topic. topic is belarus and you are calling people of belarus nuts and you think that you know better than they are. that is nonsense.

I guess Amnesty International knows better than us, but of course they are pro-western jewish evildoers after all..

Park of Vienna? Oh really? I'm flying to Vienna in December, I'll see for myself :) Hope they don't bite after all, at least they speak Bulgarian, we're not going to have an pitiful incident due to someone lost in translation...I hope :)

there are lot of them in park of vienna, police is always on them, but that is not the topic. topic is belarus and you are calling people of belarus nuts and you think that you know better than they are. that is nonsense.

When Belarus get's rid of Lukashenko one day, it will be a great country!

Well there is a difference of perception of the word in exYugoslavian states and in Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Poland, f. Czechoslovakia

The difference in the perception of communism is so big because the communist regime in Bulgaria was preceded by the separation of territories with ethnic Bulgarian majority and followed by the biggest economical crisis in our modern history whereas the communism in Serbia was preceded by the liberation of the country.That`s why the word communism is taboo for so many Bulgarians and the communist regime was proclaimed to be criminal.I`m a person with right believes even ultra-right in some aspects but I admit there were some positive things during the communism.The respect towards the authorities was much bigger, the towns were cleaner and safer, there was almost no criminality and the most important- the revolts of the Turks in the late 80`s were brought under control by the army and 300,000 Turks got one-way ticket to Turkey.This would be absolutely imposible if we had free market.
I`m afraid there weren`t any other positive sides of the communism and it was good only for the the lowest classes of society due to the redistribution of wealth and resources towards duffers, dropouts and outsiders.

well i know so many Bulgarian student who are crying on the mention of them returning to Bulgaria. And so many ppl fro Bulgaria fled to western countries and they are there without anything sleeping in parks. does this mean that Bulgaria is dictatorship?
Try again! Bulgarians sleeping in parks! Hah-hah-hah! Even gypsies don't sleep in parks.
Second of all, what time frame are you talking about? Yes, during the communism, Bulgaria was a dictatorship and the people were running away from the country.
Lastly, drop the Norwegian flag because you look like an idiot when you try to glorify the communist system and at the same time you show us the Norwegian flag. Idiot!

indeed !
btw new york is bit closer, but still tooo far.
and don´t be starting with this bulgaria=eu über alles , coz this is thread about Belarus.

Back to topic: there are good things in communism like free schools, education, good free hospitals etc.

and Belarus has elections so it is not dictatorship and ppl do have choice to make, and they made it.

What are you crapping on about?
Go and have a slow dance with KM.
Obviously you did not live in Serbia in the 90's. We had plenty of elections going on, but did we have choice? NO. All fake elections to display how Serbia is democratic, while all the time it was a dictatorship.
So go away, and never make such stupid comments again.

there are lot of them in park of vienna, police is always on them, but that is not the topic. topic is belarus and you are calling people of belarus nuts and you think that you know better than they are. that is nonsense.
Excuse you! We are not calling the people of Belarus nuts. We are calling people like you nuts because you are bragging about the last dying dictatorship in Europe.

What are you crapping on about?
Go and have a slow dance with KM.
Obviously you did not live in Serbia in the 90's. We had plenty of elections going on, but did we have choice? NO. All fake elections to display how Serbia is democratic, while all the time it was a dictatorship.
So go away, and never make such stupid comments again.

:applause::applause::applause: Finally somebody with his senses!

Serbia is not lost as far as there are people such as BIK!

The difference in the perception of communism is so big because the communist regime in Bulgaria was preceded by the separation of territories with ethnic Bulgarian majority and followed by the biggest economical crisis in our modern history whereas the communism in Serbia was preceded by the liberation of the country.That`s why the word communism is taboo for so many Bulgarians and the communist regime was proclaimed to be criminal.I`m a person with right believes even ultra-right in some aspects but I admit there were some positive things during the communism.The respect towards the authorities was much bigger, the towns were cleaner and safer, there was almost no criminality and the most important- the revolts of the Turks in the late 80`s were brought under control by the army and 300,000 Turks got one-way ticket to Turkey.This would be absolutely imposible if we had free market.
I`m afraid there weren`t any other positive sides of the communism and it was good only for the the lowest classes of society due to the redistribution of wealth and resources towards duffers, dropouts and outsiders.
finally someone sane and with arguments.

I guess Amnesty International knows better than us, but of course they are pro-western jewish evildoers after all..

Park of Vienna? Oh really? I'm flying to Vienna in December, I'll see for myself :) Hope they don't bite after all, at least they speak Bulgarian, we're not going to have an pitiful incident due to someone lost in translation...I hope :)
Just visit Schweizer Garten und you will meet them. My point is that it is not objective to judge one country on a few lousy example. As the most of this bulgarian diaspora do when writing about belarus.

What are you crapping on about?
Go and have a slow dance with KM.
Obviously you did not live in Serbia in the 90's. We had plenty of elections going on, but did we have choice? NO. All fake elections to display how Serbia is democratic, while all the time it was a dictatorship.
So go away, and never make such stupid comments again.
Excuse me serbia voted for Milosevic and it is the fact. And u had a choice so what u r writing is just washing hands from your own actions.

Excuse you! We are not calling the people of Belarus nuts. We are calling people like you nuts because you are bragging about the last dying dictatorship in Europe.
i am not bragging i am stating if the people of Belarus are satisfied and they are at least most of them, who are you tu judge their system and way of life if it is good for them. And again i think that people in Belarus live better than ppl of some EU 27 states.

Try again! Bulgarians sleeping in parks! Hah-hah-hah! Even gypsies don't sleep in parks.
Second of all, what time frame are you talking about? Yes, during the communism, Bulgaria was a dictatorship and the people were running away from the country.
Lastly, drop the Norwegian flag because you look like an idiot when you try to glorify the communist system and at the same time you show us the Norwegian flag. Idiot!
if u knew anything about Norway u would have known that Norway is more socialistic country than Bulgaria ever was.

Back to topic: there are good things in communism like free schools, education, good free hospitals etc.

You are either kid or living in a dream world. There are no "free" things in this world. Everything costs money. You are living in a illusion that you don't need to pay for all those things. In fact you pay for them with your taxes and government uses YOUR money to pay for all these things.

Excuse me serbia voted for Milosevic and it is the fact. And u had a choice so what u r writing is just washing hands from your own actions.

True, we may have voted for him the first time, but all the other times it was fake.
Also, Belarus also may have voted for Lukashenko the first time, but now it is all also a fake.

Excuse me serbia voted for Milosevic and it is the fact. And u had a choice so what u r writing is just washing hands from your own actions.

In your perfect little world there is no such thing as election frauds?

Well smartass here is what happened on streets of Belgrade when people protested against Milosevic (whose party officials lately admitted rigging every single one of elections in 1990s, his party nowadays has about 5% of support):

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5470/img33ho8.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1412/kordonbijespoje5.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3153/img34kx8.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5561/kontramitingubicaol1.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6633/kordon2bm3.jpg

So don't spill more of this crap on how all elections are free and how there are no dictators.

Yeah, correct, but that illusion make even those poor gypsies from carton city to educate themselves and to have a better life than they have.

In your perfect little world there is no such thing as election frauds?

Well smartass here is what happened on streets of Belgrade when people protested against Milosevic (whose party officials lately admitted rigging every single one of elections in 1990s, his party nowadays has about 5% of support):


So don't spill more of this crap on how all elections are free and how there are no dictators.



I tought so too. But after the 5th octobar, i realized it was not like that. When u see today all theese protests, u would do so too. As i posted once, they (some foreign factor, dont want to explain) create a PROBLEM, it follows our REACTION, they force us for SOLUTION, and solution is their way for controle the country, by people that they posted and financed.

Well we came from a Belarusian tractor, to democracy in Belarus, to Milosevic. Thanks for fucking up another thread guys :okay:

And again i think that people in Belarus live better than ppl of some EU 27 states.

Tra-la-la-la! Wowwwwwwwwwwwww!

Happy Halloween BL!

i have met many Belorussian students as well who are satisfied with lukashenko and the way he leads his country. I am sure that average Belorussian live better than average Pole. They have kept so many good things from communism.

:hilarious

It seems Norway is not a good place for psychedelic drugs...like Johny Depp said in a cult movie :)

You are either kid or living in a dream world. There are no "free" things in this world. Everything costs money. You are living in a illusion that you don't need to pay for all those things. In fact you pay for them with your taxes and government uses YOUR money to pay for all these things.
on the other side u can pay both taxes and schools.

In your perfect little world there is no such thing as election frauds?

Well smartass here is what happened on streets of Belgrade when people protested against Milosevic (whose party officials lately admitted rigging every single one of elections in 1990s, his party nowadays has about 5% of support):

So don't spill more of this crap on how all elections are free and how there are no dictators.
Yes there are, but milosevic on the last election won only in few percent, so the fraud was easy. But i don´t believe it is like that in Belarus.

his party now has 5% coz his idea wasn´t successful, if it has been he would have 95% now.

And smartass i don´t think and i have never said that all elections are free and that there aren´t dictators. I am just saying that the only one not satisfied with Belarus are not Belorussians, but ppl from other countries.

You know MojaBL, I don;t know about all of them, but your last post is very much true. I just love how some of our fine Belgraders wash their hands off of Milosevic now as if he was never truly supported there. That piece of shit betrayed everyone and his mother and put the sanctions on RS during the war just so he can keep playing the "big Balkan boss" and never fully engaged anyone, but kept provoking problems. Now, every here and there, one can read how revolutionary Oct. 5th 2000 was and how demonstrators bled for democracy and all that pathetic nonsense. They have no idea what it was to be left alone among the idiots and ex-commie generals in the midst of the unwanted civil war, as if majority of people in RS wanted to fight in the first place.
As for Belarus, it is always amazing to find out all these preachers and zealots getting so cocky as if their banana countries do not have billion problems of their own (I would exclude Poland here, though I don't think that everything is rosy there either). Finally, what happened to you, Delyan? I always thought you were little more open-minded and good couple of notches above the rest of your fellow Bulgarians here?

You know MojaBL, I don;t know about all of them, but your last post is very much true. I just love how some of our fine Belgraders wash their hands off of Milosevic now as if he was never truly supported there. That piece of shit betrayed everyone and his mother and put the sanctions on RS during the war just so he can keep playing the "big Balkan boss" and never fully engaged anyone, but kept provoking problems. Now, every here and there, one can read how revolutionary Oct. 5th 2000 was and how demonstrators bled for democracy and all that pathetic nonsense. They have no idea what it was to be left alone among the idiots and ex-commie generals in the midst of the unwanted civil war, as if majority of people in RS wanted to fight in the first place.
As for Belarus, it is always amazing to find out all these preachers and zealots getting so cocky as if their banana countries do not have billion problems of their own (I would exclude Poland here, though I don't think that everything is rosy there either). Finally, what happened to you, Delyan? I always thought you were little more open-minded and good couple of notches above the rest of your fellow Bulgarians here?


I would, and i would not agree on that. We will never know what really happened during his roolership, some facts today after all that happened speaks in his favour, and many are opposit, at least when we talk about external relations. When it is about internal relations, things are not still clear enough, especially when i remember his privatisation of telecom, affaire with italians, and when i remember all privatisations (we all know how it was and how it is) in last 7 years of "democracy"... :ohno: In that sense i cannot believe that illegal construction begun after ellections in 1996, when coalition "Zajedno" (oposition) won, and 've got more than 60% of votes on local level.

Internet Penetration Rate 2007

Belarus: 35.1% :uh:
Thats higher than any of the other former-soviet republics, except for the Baltic states.

if u knew anything about Norway u would have known that Norway is more socialistic country than Bulgaria ever was.
I am sure that if you don't vote for their communists (probably less than .0001%), the police would beat you up! You might even disappear!
Are you from a small village formerly related to Slobo? And now when he is gone, the only thing left for you is to glaze at the only remaining dictator in Europe: Comrade Lukashenko! I hope he doesn't decide to change one of the days of the week to his name just like the president of Turkmenistan.
Are there any Norwegians in here to tell this "desperado" that comparing Belarus' dictatorship to Norway is really bad taste......

Ventilator, I have no desire nor patience to discuss Milosevic's roles in our bloody mess, but I do agree and know exactly what do you mean when you mention "external relations", there's no doubt about it. However, guy was as guilty as hell for not doing his best to prevent the disaster in the first place or at least going all the way once he started playing war games with his equally guilty
buddies Tudjman von Croatia and Alija von Bosnia. What about his son becoming so rich over night by "carrying pallets", Bambiland, "Madonna", and all that crap?
When my non-Balkan friends ask me about the "civil war" in the 90s I tell them it was a "criminal's war". Tell me it is not so.

I allready explained my oppinion about the war in some previous post on ... i think it was prishtina tread?! Most of it is international politics, not just local mess. People on Balcanes, Serbs, Croats, or Muslims, are enough reasonable, and councious, not just animals let on the field and ate eachother. So, Sloba was there just a small pleyer, who left the game in '92 i think, and formally after '92 has nothing to do with the war. Its easy as i said a few posts before: "they (some foreign factor, dont want to explain) create a PROBLEM, it follows our REACTION, they force us for SOLUTION, and solution is their way for controle the country, by people that they posted and financed".

I understand the question about Marko and all that old garniture, but u are blind if u dont see the same faces in some new people that rule today. And that is the final SOLUTION, privatization as we have today and controled economy and developement.

the only one not satisfied with Belarus are not Belorussians, but ppl from other countries.
We dont really have any Belarussians here to confirm this...and I would imagine showing their dissatisfaction with the state would give them too much hassle for them to not even bother trying.
his party nowadays has about 5% of support
SRS seems to have taken over Slobo's votes:)

This trolleybuses are extremely ugly. I'm so happy that the Sofia municipality rejected them from the auction for the new trolleybuses...

^^ I think they quite interesting ... nowhere near "extremely ugly":bash: :ohno:
http://forum.esmasoft.com/files/aksm.420.respublika.410a_606.jpg

I am sure that if you don't vote for their communists (probably less than .0001%), the police would beat you up! You might even disappear!
Are you from a small village formerly related to Slobo? And now when he is gone, the only thing left for you is to glaze at the only remaining dictator in Europe: Comrade Lukashenko! I hope he doesn't decide to change one of the days of the week to his name just like the president of Turkmenistan.
Are there any Norwegians in here to tell this "desperado" that comparing Belarus' dictatorship to Norway is really bad taste......
it is interesting how people from diaspora get their half brain cut off.

We dont really have any Belarussians here to confirm this...and I would imagine showing their dissatisfaction with the state would give them too much hassle for them to not even bother trying.

r u serious?

SRS seems to have taken over Slobo's votes:)
No they didn't. They had about 25% during his reign and now they have some 30%. And it's still not enough for 60% or whatever Milosevic claimed to win on every election.

And yeah KM who didn't leave in Serbia during international sanctions, NATO bombing, war in Croatia, war in Bosnia, war on Kosovo, hyperinflation etc. now can judge protests in Serbia as pathetic nonsense. Yeah I can from this chair now call people in Kyrgyzstan pathetic for making the news. Yeah why don't they just shut up and obey?

People who lived like any other European just a few prior to this had to get their food this way because of Milosevic:
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8072/img15jf0.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/4666/img28ny7.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/500000000000_dinars.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3880/img21lo8.jpg

the boss had no such problems whatsoever
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5863/img22mx8.jpg

neither did anyone who lived in Canada who was buying bread every morning thinking about his silly countrymen getting involved in pathetic nonsense.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/70/170616177_8ab8d453f8.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/16/capefnbghw6.jpg

Of course after pathetic nonsense idea won we can buy food normally again. Pfff we sold ourselves for the piece of bread, that's even less than a hand of dollars Milosevic claimed every protester got...
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3644/1383201788b081c3ac6ani2.jpg


p.s. As far as I know this thread is a double. There is a Belarus discussion in Ukrainian forum

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/500000000000_dinars.jpg

That's brutal! Street beggars becoming billionaires!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/500000000000_dinars.jpg

That's brutal! Street beggars becoming billionaires!

We were all billionaires and some still complained :ohno:

We were all billionaires and some still complained :ohno:

There was actually a positive effect on inflation. People payed the property that before inflation was a public property, for very low prices.

"People who lived like any other European just a few prior to this had to get their food this way because of Milosevic"

I really dont support Miloshevic and that period, but this claim is really a nonsense. Miloshevic wasnt put sanctions to SRJ, that did international community. However political situation in the country was, there was no chance that we could be in such economical position. The sanctions were the best way to disable Serbia and Montenegro as any kind of economical force in region, and europe, and to disable chances for concurency that we prefered in industry of Europe. And Miloshevic had nothing to do with that. If u take a list of people who worked on the distruction of Yugoslavia, and their connections with some other international crisis, and devastations of some others countries economies, everything would be clear to You. Otherwise, i have heard that even our prime minister was involved in Argentinian crisis. :ohno:

Otherwise, i have heard that even our prime minister was involved in Argentinian crisis. :ohno:

:hilarious He is incapable of getting involved in our affairs let alone Argentinian...