Which of these 2 would you rather have...

Proposed in Leeds:
Criterion Place 53 & 33 storeys (approx 180m & 120m):

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/thumbs/1004CriterionPlaceresidentialtower_pic1.jpg

Lumiere 54 & 32 storey (approx 171m & 112m):

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/thumbs/3178LumiereTower1_pic3.jpg

Proposed in Manc:

Beetham 50 storey 150m:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/thumbs/132BeethamTowerManchester_pic1.jpg

Eastgate 58 storey 188m:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/thumbs/331EastgateTower_pic1.jpg

Although Eastgate has the edge on height, the 2 Manc proposals boxyness is beaten by the curves of the Leeds towers for me, with Crtierion steets ahead of all the other 3 proposals.

PS please try to avoid Leeds v Manc nonsense, just the merits of the towers pls.

Someone close this thread please, it really isn't a good idea.

Subliving.

:lol: how long will this thread last?

but heres hoping for some constructive posts:)

I think if people can be adult about it it can work - I'd be interested to see if people prefer the record breaking height (Manc) or better deseign (Leeds (IMO)).
I will happily admit I would love Leeds to be having a 188m tower, and that I would love either Manc tower in Leeds, but having said that, I prefer the 2 we have...

Well, Manc Beetham is the only one built, so us Mancs, like it or not are stuck with it.

But i'd certainly welcome a Criterion Shaped, Piccadilly Tower height tower!

oh dear this wasnt a good idea.

However, if people can be adult about it, in the real world it shouldnt be a problem lol.

Me personally, The Leeds designs easily. Firstly, they are my favourite of all the regional talls.. and if they were built somewhere else they would still be my favourite. Secondly, they are 4 towers in total, rather than just 2. This means, they are already a cluster of 5 with BWP.

The problem with skyscrapers +150m in both leeds and mancs is that they are much taller than everything else on the skyline. This, imo, can make them look out of place as they are not stepped to such a height. The advantage of the Leeds designs is that they are both dual towers, allowing for stepped height, easing the eye to such height.. if that makes sense lol !

well its a bit unfair as leeds has 4 towers on show whereas Manc has 2.....;)

Oh fuck it, here we go. :lol:

I'm voting for the Leeds towers. In my opinion, Criterion on its own would win, even if coupled with Opal 1. The design is superior to anything that's on the drawing boards at the moment, and the dual tower aspect (thank you Wiggley, I'm uneasy about saying 'twin' about this sort of scheme) does seem to add a certain panache to the design. As Wiggley said, it makes sense of a ridiculously huge tower which would otherwise stick out like a sore thumb.

That said, there is so much high rise going up in Manchester right now that your towers would not stick out so much.

However, it's the shapes that I really like on my side of the pennines, something a bit different which I don't think has really been done outside of London. Plus, the overhand on Beetham turns me right off the Manchester duo as it looks cumbersome and awkward. I think Criterion handles its overhand much better.

Subliving.

Oh fuck it, here we go. :lol:

I'm voting for the Leeds towers. In my opinion, Criterion on its own would win, even if coupled with Opal 1.

:lol::lol: Leeds for me too.. im not concerned with the high as much as i am the design

Not just saying this because I'm from Manchester, but I prefer 'boxed' shaped towers. They give a skyline more baulk and strength. Yes, the Leeds proposals do look nicer, but I can't stand towers that have points and angles.(Dubai, etc) They date faster and make the skyline look messy. Give me brutal tower blocks anytime. (New York, Chicago, etc)

Ah, a fan of the classics, 1930's Manhatten will never ever be equalled for me:cheers:

One, Two, Three, Four,
I Declare a Flame War,
One, Two, Three...


Personally I'm going with the Leeds one's.

Although i do like the Leeds one's, i agree with jrb about the angular buildings, and ive started to dislike Lumiere slightly. Eastgate for me is a beauty, it looks classy, and im damn jealous of the Mancs and because of that im voting for Manchester.

I prefer the shape of Lumiere and Criterion to the two Manc towers. However I'm not to keen on Lumieres cladding from the renders I have seen, it looks a bit fussy imo. I think the cladding on Eastgate could be great.

Its pretty tough but I'd have to go with Leeds.

Not just saying this because I'm from Manchester, but I prefer 'boxed' shaped towers. They give a skyline more baulk and strength. Yes, the Leeds proposals do look nicer, but I can't stand towers that have points and angles.(Dubai, etc) They date faster and make the skyline look messy. Give me brutal tower blocks anytime. (New York, Chicago, etc)

have to agree with jrb here, and the two manchester towers suit manchester more than the two leeds proposals will suit leeds.

Not just saying this because I'm from Manchester, but I prefer 'boxed' shaped towers. They give a skyline more baulk and strength. Yes, the Leeds proposals do look nicer, but I can't stand towers that have points and angles.(Dubai, etc) They date faster and make the skyline look messy. Give me brutal tower blocks anytime. (New York, Chicago, etc)

^^ What he said.

I know being from Liverpool I should choose whoever-is-against-manchester but I just can't be as enthusiastic about criterion place or lumiere as other people, especially lumiere. To me, they both look awkward, they just don't look right to me, I can't explain why really. I also think they will date fast, they look over-designed in a bid to be different. Like jrb says they will look messy on the skyline.

The best proposal for me has to be Eastgate, it is the typical shape for a skyscraper (sides going straight up, no bits jutting out half way up). Some may say its a bit boxy but thats what has made cities like New York and Chicago iconic so why cant it now in the 21st Century. I'm not a fan of Beetham, it looks a bit top heavy and although Criterion overhangs in the middle it does not look top heavy. Does anyone know are the Criterion towers directly opposite each other or in the render is one further forward than the other. The thing is with two towers of the same shape facing each other it looks a bit wierd. I like the taller tower of Lumiere but probably not the shorter one.

gawd, i can see people are using fake profiles now to boost numbers. *waves at LaLov and MrKite* :)

gawd, i can see people are using fake profiles now to boost numbers. *waves at LaLov and MrKite* :)

mrkite posts in the liverpool forum

The best proposal for me has to be Eastgate, it is the typical shape for a skyscraper (sides going straight up, no bits jutting out half way up). Some may say its a bit boxy but thats what has made cities like New York and Chicago iconic so why cant it now in the 21st Century. I'm not a fan of Beetham, it looks a bit top heavy and although Criterion overhangs in the middle it does not look top heavy. Does anyone know are the Criterion towers directly opposite each other or in the render is one further forward than the other. The thing is with two towers of the same shape facing each other it looks a bit wierd. I like the taller tower of Lumiere but probably not the shorter one.

In response to this I'd say that the most iconic skyscrapers in NYC are rather different to the 'box shape' that you and others seem to be alluding to.

Look at the ESB as an example. I would say that it was an extremely shapely tower, not at all a box. It has set-backs, which were required for buildings at the time of building, and a most un-box like crown. In fact, I can't really think of an iconic box scraper apart from the WTC or Aon Center.

Not looking to pick a fight here, just my opinion... :wink2:

Subliving.

I think Criterion is the most interesting scheme,but I prefer Eastgate over Lumiere,the staggered slab effect of Eastgate looks great IMO, very authoritive looking.As for the Lumiere scheme the smaller tower looks awkward and seems to sit wrong ,the main tower would look better on its own.

The Eastgate tower looks almost identical to the Riverside South Buildings under construction in Canary Wharf.

The Eastgate tower looks almost identical to the Riverside South Buildings under construction in Canary Wharf.

You mean Riverside South looks almost identical to Eastgate. Eastgate was released first. ;)

You mean Riverside South looks almost identical to Eastgate. Eastgate was released first. ;)

Maybe, i have no idea. :dunno:

well RS is taller and UC :)

Maybe, i have no idea. :dunno:

well RS is taller and UC :)

Eastgate will be under construction by January too when the car park closes. :)

It's difficult to predict how Lumiere will turn out. Some of the renderings are cool, some are oo-er.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/IMG021.jpg



http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u85/jinky-org/leeds-investments.gif

i think i like eastgate more than lumiere visually having a good think about it, but criterion surpasses everything by a long shot.

Individually the towers of Lumiere and Criterion are stunning, especially the taller Lumiere tower, lesser so the shorter one. Thing is its how well both work together that i dont like but i suppose any design with two towers would be a bit difficult to get right.

In response do Di Livio, I took that picture in the planning office, at a funny angle, with a camera phone.

Subliving.

In response do Di Livio, I took that picture in the planning office, at a funny angle, with a camera phone.

Subliving.

I chose it because it's shows the cladding, and because those photos are cool and don't get as much of an airing as the renders.

What a surprise the results of this 'poll' are...

Criterion doesn't give any other provincial skyscraper in the UK a chance. Best proposal outside London.

Am I the only one who prefers Lumiere over Criterion?

The Leeds buildings by far. Much more interesting designs.

I'm not a fan of Beetham - the cladding is horrid and the way it steps out as it goes up just looks wrong. The other Manc design is alright - but nothing special.

Am I the only one who prefers Lumiere over Criterion?

I think you might be actually...

Nah, I ca see where you're coming from. Not everyone's going to love the funky angles on Criterion. Each to his own!

Subliving.

I am unbiased, and I would go with Criterion and Lumiere any day of the week.

I never knew Lumiere had that massive 'hole' at the top of it? Loses a point from me that does I'm afraid.

I liked the Simpson tower proposed for Piccadilly. What's happening with it?

Well, a 44 storey tower for the site has been approved, but Albany the developer are having a few financial 'issues', however, they said they are committed to the tower and plan to resubmit a 54 storey tower in for planning!!


Well, that's what they're saying, but we're not counting our chickens just yet!

I think you might be actually...

Nah, I ca see where you're coming from. Not everyone's going to love the funky angles on Criterion. Each to his own!

Subliving.
I think Criterion will end up with a radical design change before it sees the light, if it does at all. It will simplify it and will end up looking like Manc Beetham.

I don't think it will; it won a design competition by LCC with alot of support and praise from them. If any design change happens, it will mainly be down to the developer and architect.

I think Criterion will end up with a radical design change before it sees the light, if it does at all. It will simplify it and will end up looking like Manc Beetham.

Quite, its worth remembering that CP is a vision, it still hasn't been submitted for planning - how long is it since it first surfaced in that guise? Over three years? I hope it isn't watered down though.

It's not a vision... its a proposal. Kite Tower is a vision, CP is a proposal- enabling works started in September.

Proposal is if it has been put forward for planning, if not, it's still a vision.

Yes, for me also something that has been submitted for planning is a proposal, until then its still a vision technically.

Leedslad,Sorry to be picky but Manc Beetham is 169m not 150m,even if you just mean roof height its still 156m,these things matter:yes:I aslo think the design of criterion will end up different from the current proposal,could be better ,could be inferior,probably the latter unfortunatly.I also think some of these proposed towers, even the approved ones, will never see the light of day,saturation point is not far off and the market is slowing ,poeople who have bought city centre apartments have seen their values drop recently. Doesn't give potential investors confidence.

Proposal is if it has been put forward for planning, if not, it's still a vision.

you mean like what is happening in 3 days time? :nuts:

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000173/M00003016/AI00010269/CriterionPlace.pdf

presentation by the developer prior to the submission of an application for 53 and 33 storey residential/hotel towers with part 5/part 9 and part 5/part 10 storey office buildings with basement car parking and casino at Criterion Place

You also have to remember, the council own the land for this development, so they are keen to make money on it and allow a development that maximises profits for the council. The design also won the council's design for the development of the site in 2005 already, so effectively it has an un-official "approval in principal" anyway. If the developers keep to the exact original design that won the design-approval this will be approved. Therefore, any changes to the design would only occur on the developers side, not the council's side. But yes, the new design could be more cost-effective, because I guess such a stunning design and shape must cost more to build than a standard tower block given the engineering of such a shape. But, either way we will find out in 4 days time at the presentation where the new taller design will be on show.

you mean like what is happening in 3 days time? :nuts:

Not long to wait until it's a fully fledged proposal then! ;)

Who knows. What wiggly refers to in three days time is a pre-application presentation to get feedback before they decide about any application, in whatever form or when no-one knows.

Leedslad,Sorry to be picky but Manc Beetham is 169m not 150m,even if you just mean roof height its still 156m,these things matter.

All info from skyscrapernews.com...

... If the developers keep to the exact original design that won the design-approval this will be approved......

Unfortunately this may not be the case, as Bay pointe in Cardiff won a competition but has been transformed beyond recognition. I think if a design wins a competition then it should be built in that form, otherwise whats trhe point in a competition!