Yee haw! I really hope this happens. I'm so sick of the subway opponents.
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A new route along Santa Monica Boulevard is considered instead of the Wilshire corridor, bypassing the Miracle Mile and Hancock Park.

By Rong-Gong Lin II, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 3, 2007

After trying for three decades to build a subway down Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles County transit officials are now considering a radically different route that would send the Westside rail line though Hollywood, West Hollywood and the Beverly Center area.

The new proposed alignment for the "Subway to the Sea" would extend west from the Hollywood/Highland Red Line station, roughly following Santa Monica Boulevard through Beverly Hills, a route that backers say should dip south to connect with the Beverly Center mall and Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.

The new concept is still in its preliminary stages, and the Wilshire alignment remains on the table. But even though officials don't have funding for the $6-billion project, the new concept has sparked much debate because of how crucial many officials see the subway to easing the Westside's traffic woes.

The new route would bypass the Miracle Mile and Hancock Park, where opposition remains strong to a subway from residents in the upscale residential district.

More:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rail3nov03,0,2826046.story?coll=la-home-local

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Part of me says: Fine, give the subway to West Hollywood where it will be truly appreciated, embraced, and welcomed. Screw Hancock Park with its residents still living in the 1950's. Let them spend the rest of their lives sitting in traffic for hours everyday. How the hell do they expect LA to solve its congestion problems? Expand or build more freeways? Please! Where exactly? In case they haven't noticed, LA ran out of land decades ago! And if they're still spewing the whole "subways bring in more crime" garbage, they don't deserve any of the benefits that the line will bring.
*deep breath*

Yet at the same time, I know how vital a line down Wilshire is. How many people who need to get from the Westside to Downtown or vice versa will want to go all the way up to Hollywood/Highland in the process? And let's not forget there was opposition to the current red line as well and yet look how much it's benefited LA. Could you imagine if Metro had listened to residents in the 90's and just quit building the Red Line?

Like probably everyone else here, I would like to someday have both alignments in place. But who knows if that'll ever happen, seeing all the money problems Metro is having building a 9 mile light rail line.

Yep, I want both lines too, but more than that, I want to see new lines built as soon as possible. Better to build a line down Santa Monica Blvd. that will be appreciated rather than fighting the NIBMYs along Wilshire.

I also love the idea of all three "Hollywoods" being connected: North Hollywood, Hollywood, and West Hollywood.

I've always thought of the area bounded in by the Hollywood freeway to the northeast, Sunset boulevard to the northwest and the 10 to the south as the "golden triangle". Downtown, Hollywood and Century should all be connected and lines should split off from there. I vote for both. :)

I don't know about this. By building on Santa Monica first, you lose the possibility of downtown transfers. Someone who lives in, say, Beverly Hills wouldn't take that subway if they worked downtown or wanted to take the Gold Line or Blue Line. I think it's better if all of our lines go downtown right now. I think we should have both, but this should be the order for the Westside: Wilshire-->Santa Monica-->Sepulveda.

Both Wilshire and a spur from Holly/High down Sunset to CC. This isn't something to be compromised!

... another Transit thread!

I think that skipping the miracle mile would be a travesty. However, I do think that if the red line extension went south on la cienega from santa monica blvd down to beverly, then headed west again back to santa monica, that could solve a lot of the problems that people are having with no station for the CS/BC. This would also allow for a connection to the rapid bus line on beverly.

Think about this, future stops of the red line extension:

santa monica/la brea
santa monica/fairfax
santa monica/la cienega
san vicente/beverly
santa monica/beverly
santa monica/wilshire
...

I did the math, it would only add 3/4 or a mile to the route, with one extra stop. that might be an extra 5 minutes max to the end to end travel time for the line.

This is what happens when we build only certain lines at a time instead of building a system.

Stick with the Wilshire Blvd subway alignment since it goes through or near museums and tourist attractions and more dense areas of the city than SMB and it will still end at the beach. If the SMB route catches on there will be a fight for funding from both sides which will delay an already delayed decades old project.

Yeah down Wilshire. This is the route it will take anyway, NIMBY's or no NIMBY's. Besides, I don't know where the so-called "opposition" is coming from. I was at the meeting and mostly everyone was for a subway under Wilshire to the beach. Only a couple of people got up and asked for no station at Crenshaw but even then they left the door open by stating if a stop is at Crenshaw, maintain the existing zoning for that area(which I can agree with). This is just a red herring put out once again by the LA Times. The Wilshire alignment has the support of Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, the mayor and gauging by the meeting(s) the public. This is what happens when you allow another city 2,000 miles away control your print media.

"But some MTA officials say the Subway to the Sea is just too expensive and that the money should be spent on smaller transit projects such as busway and freeway expansions."

What a joke. Freeway expansions are more efficient than a subway? Since when? I'd like to know exactly who said that, if anyone. I think that everyone there knows that spending on freeway expansion is a waste.

The route from H&H would be the ultimate tourist and entertainment line. Can you imagine a single line hitting Hollywood, WeHo, Beverly Hills, Westwood, Santa Monica, etc. Plus the Red Line would still provide access to Universal Studios and downtown. The Wilshire route, seems more of a line to help locals carry out their day to day business, although it would also be used heavily for entertainment purposes. The two lines IMO would serve slightly different purposes, although I believe they are both needed. I just feel that Wilshire is needed more right now.

Actually. I have been proposing the Santa Monia/H&H route for more than fifteen years. It is really a shame that with all the work that has been done on Santa Monica in West Hollywood and Century City that no one seriously thought about this route before. The tunnels could have been built as part of these projects at a much lower cost.

Forget busway. Our bus system is already second to none so lets leave that alone.

"Subways were developed for vertical cities of the last century. This is a horizontal city," said Mike Genewick, president of the Windsor Square Neighborhood Assn., known for its stately historic mansions.


Did anyone else see this quote??? What a flipping numbskull. Has this guy ever heard of London, Paris, Madrid... etc. I swear, these people will say whatever shit comes to their minds to stand in the way of development.

That is def a quote taken from the anti-development crowd. But alas, it's too late. Holly/Vine, Wil/Western, Wil/Vermont, UniRed Line station, NohoRed Line station........on and on.

"Subways were developed for vertical cities of the last century. This is a horizontal city," said Mike Genewick, president of the Windsor Square Neighborhood Assn., known for its stately historic mansions.


Did anyone else see this quote??? What a flipping numbskull. Has this guy ever heard of London, Paris, Madrid... etc. I swear, these people will say whatever shit comes to their minds to stand in the way of development.

Yeah, I saw that and had the same reaction. It's just a dumb talking point that he probably heard from someone else and has decided to repeat it without giving it much thought.

It reminds me of Joel Kotkin's blathering about L.A. being a city of single-family homes (and the attitude that it will be that way forever).

It's not that way now.

It's not that way now.

Oh, I know, but people like Joel Kotkin seem to believe that it is.

Here's a local perspective on the subject from WeHo News:

http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=1845

One of the opponents:

"Senior Advisory Board member Ric Rickles said about subways’ depths, “I’m afraid of subways because often the escalators or the elevators are not working. For a senior or someone with a disability climbing those stair is quite a chore.”"

lol... Is that the best he can come up with?

One of the opponents:

"Senior Advisory Board member Ric Rickles said about subways’ depths, “I’m afraid of subways because often the escalators or the elevators are not working. For a senior or someone with a disability climbing those stair is quite a chore.”"

lol... Is that the best he can come up with?

The last remaining subway opponents are clearly panicking and grasping for whatever they can come up with. The demand and support for mass transit in L.A. is as strong as it's ever been. This city has the potential to develop one of the best transit systems in the country, and the opponents know it.

can someone tell me the number of subways in usa?

And out of left field . . .

can someone tell me the number of subways in usa?

4 and a half.

I'm advocating for both alignments, as are many others.

WOW... This is great... I think both are going to happen.

I'm advocating for both alignments, as are many others.

The ideal would be both alignments, but given the skepticism about securing funding for even one of them, how likely do you think it is that BOTH would get built? They seem to having enough trouble even getting one off the ground.

^^ Given the increasing traffic congestion throughout the Westside (which shows no signs of stopping) and the strong support for a subway to sea from AV, the various communities and jurisdictions that be involved, and the general public, I'm fairly certain that at least one of the two alignments will eventually be built.

Funding never really was the problem w/ the Purple Line to begin with, it was going to be built. The problem occured when Waxman legally banned underground tunneling along Wilshire, then Zev fucked up local taxes going towards any underground tunneling for subways. Then the BRU spearheaded a consent decree that said that x amount of dollars would have to go to autobus operation. The money can be raised, it's the political and public will that has to be behind it.
And Snoble is talking about the Expo not making it to Culver City because the MTA wants CC to pay its share........money is not the issue, this is all political wrangling really. They can find the money just like they found it miraculously for that underground tunnel at USC.

Traffic congestion along Wilshire Blvd...

UROdp4_4KQA

^^ hahaha! so much for the Rapid Buses, huh!

That video is hilarious.

And I hope that both can be built, both have innumerable advantages.

It would be every right minded Angeleno's dream to have both, yet let's face reality. Subway down Wilshire is much more practical; BH doesn't deserve a subway stop, let them sit in traffic to death!

^ i agree. both is ideal, but wilshire has double the bus ridership over santa monica - plus its more direct to downtown.

seems pretty obvious to me - and im not even an angeleno (though i go and care a lot about la)

the video is very funny

I think that by bus ridership, the next lines should be Wilshire and then Vermont.

Where is the link that shows bus ridership by line?

Those buses are so purty and red, and they look fast just standing still- wait! They are standing still...

can someone tell me the number of subways in usa?
I've counted 10 agencies that deal in some sort of heavy rail. Of course LRT can be subway as well but I think you mean the traditional 3rd rail type mode of heavy rail that runs exclusively grade seperated. And they are:
NYC
DC
Chicago
San Francisco
Philidelphia
Atlanta
New Jersey
Los Angeles
Miami
Baltimore

And those are also the order of their respective ridership. If I've forgotten any one agency please fill in.

There's Boston. And Cleveland's Red Line draws power from overhead power lines, but looks very much like traditional heavy rail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Line_%28Cleveland%29

Sorry I missed Boston. They haven't been reporting to the APTA lately so therefore I missed them. Yes and Clevland.