Now here's an interesting story I've just seen.
It seems that some developers are taking a very realistic approach to the current situation and this will certainly engender a great deal of investor confidence.
If SP were as responsive and realistic as Mada'in, they would also have rather more investor confidence than currently. But are they listening or even considering doing anything, other than threatening legal action if payments way over 50% are not made against what is presently a hole in the ground?

Dubai-based company Mada'in Properties said today that it is reducing the price of its properties by as much as 30% due to current market conditions. Existing customers of Mada'in Properties will receive revised contracts with the purchase price of their properties discounted up to 30% and will have their remaining payments rescheduled, the developer said. 'We have studied the market conditions and have formulated a strategy that deals with the past, the present and the future. Bearing this in mind, we have made the decision to assist our customers in their investments, not only in good times, but also in the current market conditions. The construction costs have been reduced significantly allowing us to pass on the savings to our current customers,' Abdul Aziz Al Awar, CEO of Mada'in Properties said.

http://www.ameinfo.com/187173.html

I am a long standing investor in BC and live close to SP's offices in Wilmslow. I have previously bought in JBR from SP. I have had much contact with SP. The following views are my own .

Some facts
- SP is independent of the developer - managerially and legally
- the developer ie Select Group doesn't want to have contact with investors
- the developer is preceding at a pace that suits them not investors. They are financing the whole project using investors' funds rather than their own. This largely explains the delays as your first funds were used to repay land and marketing costs like they were on the Torch, the Point and BC.
- you can huff and puff as much as you want but there is not much you can do about it. They have been clever with the legal structures and contract terms. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT YOU COMPLAIN TO RERA. You must do this time and time again. If you don't do this you are very foolish
- it is highly unlikely you will get ripped off because of RERA and because Select Group and Select Property have long term investments in Dubai which will take 5+ years to unwind. They have invested in the World and other developments. They need the authorities cooperation in these project which won't be forthcoming if they try to stiff investors. Contracts can't be cancelled without RERA's permission. Escrow bank accounts are now policed much more stringently than they were.

You will however face a substantial delay. All Select Group's projects are at least 2 and probably 3 years behind schedule. If your complaints to RERA are effective then I think RERA will insist on a payment delay. The best you are going to acheive is payment delays. Cost reductions etc are all a pipe dream. The developer is fighting on the Torch not to pay compensation even though it is in theory contractually binding on them to do so. You have no chance of a price reduction.

Sorry if I appear blunt but I thought you might as well benefit from the experience of many others before you. I wouldn't spend too much time whinging to each other, although you might fele like do so, I would focus on getting RERA to sort our your problems.

Slowhand

Thank for a considered reply.
I am in this for the long haul and always expected that completion dates would slip a good deal.
I have already lodged my concerns with RERA; no response yet, but that does not surprise me.
I would accept a realistic payment delay on Botanica and recognise that is probably the best we can hope for.

Thanks again for the reply - most helpful.

08/March/2009

Botanica

http://i42.tinypic.com/nmbxgh.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2mzfayq.jpg

^^Is the growing algae in that pool going to be re-homed in the Botanica garden?

Maybe, SP/SG are taking their 'green' environmental message too literally!! :lol:

very tiny plot

Theres a car going into the plot? was there actually any workers doing anything there?

^^
What do u think man ... look at the site ... Seems like workers could only play "spot-the-frog" here. This project is ON HOLD

Theres a car going into the plot? was there actually any workers doing anything there?

Took a wrong turning and had to peform a three-point turn!:lol:

^^ I have been touched by your story.

Here is a good start - if you need anymore info just ask.

http://www.select-group.ae/leadership.html

RAHAIL ASLAM - Chairman Select Group Of Companies

Here is a pic for you to throw darts at:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2dsr5a0.jpg

Also Mark Stott is another one who needs some encouragement...

http://i41.tinypic.com/2e5uyo2.jpg

...

ive paid 60% with next 20% due april, as im sure u can appreciate am loathed to make that payment with such obvious lack of progress and creditable information.

its a worry and others must be in a similar position, or worse, as it is supposedly sold out....

Did you get anywhere with SP for a payment delay?

Did you get anywhere with SP for a payment delay?

Would be mega dumb to make further payments into this project, and cant believe SP are demanding payments. Doubt an ounce of sand would be moved on this site this year if at all.

The state of the current market does not support the development of Botanica and/or West Avenue in the marina. These developments should be shelved.

hi, kingsmaite, no i havent even spoken to SP/SG regarding future payments but have spoken to RERA, who advised me to make NO MORE PAYMENTS. I am currently working to get this in writing but with a lack of obvious progress this should be a formality if i can speak to the correct person.
some great if not alarming posts FWIW looks to be well informed so keep it coming please.
there is a lot of money been invested here we need to look out for each other i feel.

does anyone know if there is any compensation clause in the Botanica contract if this development is delayed?

paull 66, i recall that if u are fully paid up (ie non default) that in some time in 2012 there is a chance that compensation is due.
at that point they would have had ALL my money for 2.5 yrs.........

Big Si

Thank you for your posts, particularly the note about RERA in relation to Botanica. Seems that I am in the same situation as you, so if you can get anything it writing from RERA, I'd be really grateful to you for a copy.

Those of us invested in Botanica should try and stick together so that there is a degree of pressure on those making the decisions on this project. Reportedly, the big brass from SP in the UK have been in Dubai recently for meetings with the developer - I await any news that SP may decide to share with its investors....

Big Si, Flossy, enforcer, other concerned investors in SP/SG,

I have invested in Bay Central but I am concerned about Botanica.

If there is any chance we can work together to ensure that our investments are safe with this outfit?

What I think you all should be doing/have done.

1) Complain to RERA about total lack of construction at this site. Use ceo@dubailand.gov.ae and RERA online complaint site here http://rpdubai.ae/rpdubai/welcome - also ask for payment holiday to be made. Make a note of your RERA ref number.
2) Ask Land Department if SP/SG have used your 1% registration fees to register YOUR property. Use phone or info@dubailand.gov.ae
3) Get Land Department Registration docs asap from SP/SG. Do not be fobbed off about the time it takes for the OQQOD system to do its thing.
4) Complain to SP/SG regarding payment plans. No progress - No money.
5) Make a small trusted group of genuine Botanica investors that share the same concerns. Ask for the RERA complaint ref number to ensure you get like minded individuals.
6) Join http://groups.google.com/group/dubai-property-investors?hl=en

Other developers have started refunding money on projects that will never complete. Some have started giving Credit Notes for on hold projects. You Botanica investors need to start thinking about what is best for you and not what is best for SP/SG.

If we Bay Central and Botanica (also Torch, West Avenue, etc, etc) groups can then work as a unit we should be able to achieve our collective goals and protect our investments.

God helps those that help themselves first.

Regards,

fwiw

great post FWIW.
That should be the collective route to take.

Whats the story about trying to recover payments from Escrow?? thoughts/comments please.

Something i came across that would be fitting with this project

http://www.ameinfo.com/188208.html

Deyaar to offer full refunds
United Arab Emirates: Thursday, March 12 - 2009 at 08:29
Deyaar, Dubai's second largest property developer, says it will implement new measures to help buyers avoid property defaults, including full refunds on two of its projects, reported The National. The measures, which will be announced next week, also include reducing prices for properties that have already been sold and extending payment schedules to be more consistent with construction deadlines. The company recently offered to let buyers swap their purchases for other property so the company could phase out several projects.

hi, kingsmaite, no i havent even spoken to SP/SG regarding future payments but have spoken to RERA, who advised me to make NO MORE PAYMENTS. I am currently working to get this in writing but with a lack of obvious progress this should be a formality if i can speak to the correct person.
some great if not alarming posts FWIW looks to be well informed so keep it coming please.
there is a lot of money been invested here we need to look out for each other i feel.

Hi Big Si

That's good news - well done! Who did you speak to at RERA? By phone or email? I will do the same. I have registered a complaint on RERA'S web site but have had no response. If we have this in writing this will give us peace of mind that SP/SG cannot then force our hand and threaten us with losing our apartments if we don't pay up.

always loved a bit of big frank, not a croner, a classy warbler.

there must be people watching this thread that need to start getting involved. the clock is ticking and a lot of questions need addressing.

get joining-this is a great site, and we guna need each other, especially if u in with SP, check out the other threads in relation to their status.

The construction guys told me that they will be starting the other developments very soon (Mazen said Botanica within this month and as I was leaving the last day, I saw some activities on that site from the bedroom balcony)

...

Workers at the Botanica site...excellent! Something is happening at last.
...Perhaps its just to clean the pool!

"the enforcer" - what the heck are you playing at? you should be banned from this forum for spreading false rumours on every DS thread.

With reference to comments posted previously which have since been removed, we would urge readers of this forum not to act on any false claims - please remember that this is an unofficial public forum on which people can seemingly say what they wish without sanction, although we place trust in the moderators of these pages to act responsibility in the interests of all parties.
For anyone thinking of posting unverified claims, we will not take defamatory comments intended to damage our business lightly. Contact us with your real identity and we will happily set the record straight on any of the misinformation or rumours which seem to be innevitable at a time of global economic uncertainty but please, desist from scaremongering in the public domain.

^^ From the masters of missinformation and false claims........holier than thou:ohno:.

For anyone thinking of posting unverified claims, we will not take defamatory comments intended to damage our business lightly. Contact us with your real identity and we will happily set the record straight

Translation; tell us who you are and we will send the boys round:bash:

Nice people:lol:

08/March/2009

Botanica

http://i42.tinypic.com/nmbxgh.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2mzfayq.jpg

After seeing the site yesterday, I believe the green stuff has been removed, and site have been made ready for construction of what will hopefully be the fastest built single residential tower in the world....

:banana:

Does anyone have latest pictures?

I am a Buyer in Botanica and have just sent an email to request a review of the original Purchase Price we paid for Botanica, in view of the fact SP is now advertising a one bedroom from AED827803. If you go to the actual Botanica Page they state one bedroom apartments from GBP569,070, I think they actually mean AED569,070, in which case they have slashed the value of our property by more than half.
We signed in March 08 and are on the 15Year plan. We have made all payments to date, but intend on not making anymore, unless the value is recitified or payments suspended until completion. We have paid over 30% of the value of the original Buying price.
Does anyone have a contact for a Solicitor in Dubai that I can contact for assistance.
If I get a response to my email, I will ensure I add it to this blog.
Has anyone paid their Law 13 payment?
Perhaps we need to start a Botanica Buyers group and approach SP direct about delaying any future payments until completion. Based on the new market values we have effectively paid nearly 90% of the value.

It is not Select's fault that the market has fallen so you have no mileage in claiming losses as a result of market revaluation of your property. The only hope you have is to prove that SP have made your investment practically worthless as a result of their failure to make reasonable progress with the project and demonstrate that the completion date can reasonably be acheived.

I don't have a sales and purchase agreement for SP so can't comment directly however every agreement or contract is a 2 way binding agreement and if you have performed your obligations thus far by keeping up payments, SP have to be able to demostrate that they are also performing within the scope of the agreement. That means delivering on time or within reasonable delays which are covered by reasonably unforeseeable events. Not being experienced as a developer is not a valid excuse for delays due to presenting unacheivable dates for completion.

Looking at an S&P agreement I have from another developer, there is a clause which states "The seller undertakes that it will use all reasonable endevours to procure that the Completion Date will be ................". I expect you will have a similar clause as all agreements must be approved by Emaar and follow their format. If this clause exists, you could write to SP quoting the clause and claim they are in default by failing to procure the completion date and as such you exercise your right to withold all further payments until a further date is agreed or SP demonstrate their ability to procure the date.

A visit to Rera with a copy of such letter and all the other facts should receive their approval and as such save you wasting too much money on a Solicitor. A letter from a solicitor confirming the facts is probably as far as I would go. Any threats by SP to terminate the agreement would be dealt with by Rera. As SP are the defaulters it is they who have no rights or powers to terminate.

Just my opinion for what it may be worth.

http://primeminister.ae/en/communicate/index.html

Worth a try. Raise your concerns here.

I am a Buyer in Botanica and have just sent an email to request a review of the original Purchase Price we paid for Botanica, in view of the fact SP is now advertising a one bedroom from AED827803. If you go to the actual Botanica Page they state one bedroom apartments from GBP569,070, I think they actually mean AED569,070, in which case they have slashed the value of our property by more than half.
We signed in March 08 and are on the 15Year plan. We have made all payments to date, but intend on not making anymore, unless the value is recitified or payments suspended until completion. We have paid over 30% of the value of the original Buying price.
Does anyone have a contact for a Solicitor in Dubai that I can contact for assistance.
If I get a response to my email, I will ensure I add it to this blog.
Has anyone paid their Law 13 payment?
Perhaps we need to start a Botanica Buyers group and approach SP direct about delaying any future payments until completion. Based on the new market values we have effectively paid nearly 90% of the value.
I stick in Botanica too and would join a Botanica Buyers group

hi am happy to join a buyers group and raised my concerns a few weeks ago, i have paid 60%...........

I would like to join too

I am a Buyer in Botanica and have just sent an email to request a review of the original Purchase Price we paid for Botanica, in view of the fact SP is now advertising a one bedroom from AED827803. If you go to the actual Botanica Page they state one bedroom apartments from GBP569,070, I think they actually mean AED569,070, in which case they have slashed the value of our property by more than half.
We signed in March 08 and are on the 15Year plan. We have made all payments to date, but intend on not making anymore, unless the value is recitified or payments suspended until completion. We have paid over 30% of the value of the original Buying price.
Does anyone have a contact for a Solicitor in Dubai that I can contact for assistance.
If I get a response to my email, I will ensure I add it to this blog.
Has anyone paid their Law 13 payment?
Perhaps we need to start a Botanica Buyers group and approach SP direct about delaying any future payments until completion. Based on the new market values we have effectively paid nearly 90% of the value.

Hi BotanicaBuyer

We are in the same boat and extremely unhappy with SP not being flexible on payment schedules. We have paid 50% of the total purchase price on a SPP and a further 20% is payable 1st June. We made contact with a lawyer in Dubai who was extremely helpful and said that they had negotiated delayed payment schedules. Send me a private message if you would like to make contact. Perhaps we could all hire him as a group?

I am happy to join a group. We are based an hour from Wilmslow so it wouldn't be that far away to hold a meeting with SP.

Hi All, sorry for the delay I have been away, then forgot my login so had to re-register. ANYWAY, I have been told by SP that they still expect Botanica to be completed within a year, and that the apartment they were selling for AED569070 was a studio on the wrong side of the building.
I have had advise and our contacts do not believe it is possible for a building to go up from the stage it is in now, within 18 months, without serious compromise to the quality, so we are speaking to a local solicitor about the best way to move forward.
I am happy however to join a group, although it will need to be via phone or email, as we are based in Australia.
I truly hope that the development moves forward as SP says it will, but with all the reports coming back from OS, I am truly worried that we could lose any monies in the Escrow, and have no apartment, should SP struggle as many developers are, in this Economic climate, and I am not willing to wait to hear the bad news.
I am happy to share a solicitor in Dubai, but for obvious reasons would want to pay them my share direct. But if we can get one letter to RERA drawn up by all those interested in joining our group, it will be more powerful to have all our cases listed in the one document, and request assurances that the Escrow account is being handled appropriately, and to seek a delayed payment plan, should SP not be able to prove the development is on schedule or even close.
Thankyou also to True Blue, your advise was invaluable and has led us in the right direction.
I look forward to hearing from anyone wanting to move forward, and working out a way to ensure everyone involved is legit, and take some positive action with what I hope is just a pre-cautionary measure.
BTW, how do we contact each other direct?

Hi All, sorry for the delay I have been away, then forgot my login so had to re-register. ANYWAY, I have been told by SP that they still expect Botanica to be completed within a year, and that the apartment they were selling for AED569070 was a studio on the wrong side of the building.
I have had advise and our contacts do not believe it is possible for a building to go up from the stage it is in now, within 18 months, without serious compromise to the quality, so we are speaking to a local solicitor about the best way to move forward.
I am happy however to join a group, although it will need to be via phone or email, as we are based in Australia.
I truly hope that the development moves forward as SP says it will, but with all the reports coming back from OS, I am truly worried that we could lose any monies in the Escrow, and have no apartment, should SP struggle as many developers are, in this Economic climate, and I am not willing to wait to hear the bad news.
I am happy to share a solicitor in Dubai, but for obvious reasons would want to pay them my share direct. But if we can get one letter to RERA drawn up by all those interested in joining our group, it will be more powerful to have all our cases listed in the one document, and request assurances that the Escrow account is being handled appropriately, and to seek a delayed payment plan, should SP not be able to prove the development is on schedule or even close.
Thankyou also to True Blue, your advise was invaluable and has led us in the right direction.
I look forward to hearing from anyone wanting to move forward, and working out a way to ensure everyone involved is legit, and take some positive action with what I hope is just a pre-cautionary measure.
BTW, how do we contact each other direct?

On speaking with SP it appears that they are going to announce a payment delay shortly and also a revised schedule for the build. I would hang fire on expensive legal bills until we know what they are offering. We wanted a 12-month delay in payment but I suspect it will probably be a 6-month delay. Still that's better than nothing and if the developer can get cracking now then things will look a bit more promising.

Dont worry just worked out the private message bit. Will contact you now Kingsmaite

Great news Kingsmaite. I didn't get a reply from my request last night from SP about delayed payments and confirmation in writing on the building timeline.
But if that's the way they are going, they have gone back up in my books.
Let's cross our fingers and toes.......
I will contact you dependant on what we hear in the next 7 days.

One should contact the appropriate parties at Select Property directly to be correctly informed of the status and the current plan for the ongoing construction.

It seems that there could be a large slice of uninformed guesswork regarding the matter in this thread - that is not very helpful.

One should contact the appropriate parties at Select Property directly to be correctly informed of the status and the current plan for the ongoing construction.

It seems that there could be a large slice of uninformed guesswork regarding the matter in this thread - that is not very helpful.
I think if SP were a little more forthcoming with facts about reasons for delays there wouldn't be guesswork going on here - more transparency wouldn't hurt anyone IMHO

Good News! After I had been told that piling should commence last week, we drove down last night to take a look. Two piling rigs and a mobile crane have arrived on site. Will wait until I actually see them doing something before I relax entirely, but looks like the start of construction is imminent which is fantastic news for everyone. Even though prices have fallen, this is still an excellent location and in my opinion marina prices should recover more quickly than in other areas of Dubai

Does anyone have latest pictures to prove this to put our minds at rest!

I'll change the title since I trust you people here. :)

I've talked at some length to Select very recently and am slightly encouraged that Botanica will go ahead, that work will start fairly soon and that some form of payment delay is likely.
Of course, I wait to see concrete evidence of all this, but I got a strong feeling that their attitude towards investors is improving bit by bit.

they have given bay central people 3 months for a 1 year delay.. so expect the same..

For those who have not yet picked up on the latest news, Middle East Foundations are now on site at the Botanica plot to commence piling.

http://i41.tinypic.com/21e42fs.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/r8xlwn.jpg

Having revisited the construction programme the developer of Botanica has issued letters to purchasers informing them that the anticipated completion date has moved from September 2010 to August 2011. Whilst this delay is less than desirable, purchasers who have already paid substantial contributions towards their full purchase price on the standard payment plan are also being offered a relaxation of payments spread across a minimum of 6 months whilst construction catches up.
It may take a number of days for all the letters to reach their various international destinations, so please be patient for a little while longer if you have not yet received any formal notification.
We hope that the continuation of works on site will reassure purchasers who were understandably anxious during the break between shoring and piling. Our next project update is due to be published in mid-April and we will keep a close eye on construction progress towards this revised forecast completion date.

What happens to people on the LPP? They carry on paying as per normal?

Well done SP! That's great news and will no doubt restore investor confidence. Thank you very much. We look forward to seeing some positive progress on Botanica.

That is very encouraging and does start the process of rebuilding some investor confidence. I always knew it would be late, and planned accordingly, but getting a decent payment break is very good news.
So, for now at least, well done to Select for making this step.

Good stuff, ground work now i think. :)

2 rigs on site so could be done in June. Construction has to continue straight after the pilling rigs leave site to have any chance of meeting the new deadline.

^^
Lets hope that the rigs havnt found themselves a new resting home :lol:.

Before this thread goes further down the list, can someone still confirm if workers are still working on this plot? Making sure the pictures from Select were not just a one-off to keep us all quiet for a while!

Have driven past a couple of times last week and seen the piling rigs turning. Will try to get down in the next couple of days to confirm progress.

^^
Thanks Victoria and David...
Fingers crossed on this one!
:cheers:

I just passed the site in a taxi. Definitely some workers on site. I'm no expert in construction so can't really say what they were doing, but if someone who knew more than me said it was preparatory work relating to piling, I'd believe them.

"Last month saw the submittal of the piling design for
approval and we’re now pleased to inform you that the
piling contract has been awarded to the Middle East
Foundation Group. Registration of the contractor in the
Dubai Municipality took place on March 22nd and the
piling works have now commenced.
We’d also like to take this opportunity to inform you that
Consultants on the project have changed from the
architects JRHP to Dubai Civil Engineering’s partner NEB.
Following the unexpected delay between shoring and
piling the developer has conducted a review of the
construction programme for Botanica and recalculated the
estimated completion date to be August 2011."

Construction...
1. Steel rebar being prepared for re-enforcement of
piles shown in bottom right of picture.
2. Excavation continues
3. Piling continues for main floor slab of the building.

I will try and get the pictures on here soon.

regards,
Paul

So much for all the optimism above. We have just received our letter today from GGIL, the Developer, and all they are offering is a reduction in the instalments due in June and December from 20% to 10% so a paymant easing but no holiday. These guys are very crafty indeed - by parking a couple of pieces of equipment on the site, they have raised hopes (and to pull the wool over RERA's eyes) but are not in the slightest bit serious about offering any real payment holiday. I will not accept this offer and hope sufficient of you will do likewise - we are years away from any finishing heere - I wish they would cancel the damn thing and give us our money back

^^Has anyone tried for a refund?

Looks like SP are going with DCE on this one.

Reading the SP comments here and on BC thread which refer to DCE as the designers and NEB partnering DCE, looks like they are sacking their consultants and going for full Design and Build packages.

D&B packages were a good way of keeping costs within budget as the contractor leads the project which reduces costs of design variations as risk is passed to contractor. Down side, if the project costs start eating into the profit then the contractor down specs to make cost savings and protect his profit. Good for infrastructure and commercial projects, not good for residential projects sold as high spec luxury.

TB, in my knowledge this all has to do with how their contracts are written, and where the risk lies for cost overruns. Unfortunately noone really knows if and what specs can be downgraded by DCE to save costs, but we can assume that Select would have tried to tie them down as much as possible.

It makes sense to have a full design and build service, to ensure that the designs can be built within budget and that the project is safe. Like most engineering tasks, a design is only good if the implementation has been considered, and there is no better way than getting the same company to do both.

So much for all the optimism above. We have just received our letter today from GGIL, the Developer, and all they are offering is a reduction in the instalments due in June and December from 20% to 10% so a paymant easing but no holiday. These guys are very crafty indeed - by parking a couple of pieces of equipment on the site, they have raised hopes (and to pull the wool over RERA's eyes) but are not in the slightest bit serious about offering any real payment holiday. I will not accept this offer and hope sufficient of you will do likewise - we are years away from any finishing heere - I wish they would cancel the damn thing and give us our money back

I agree BlueHorizon. GGIL have already got 50% of our money and they will not get a penny more until we see them break ground and get the building rising. This derisory offer they have sent is taking the p***. We will not be paying it and will advise them of this in writing. If needs be it's time to get lawyers plus RERA much more involved. I am absolutely fed up to the back teeth with their tactics. If the project is going to be delayed a year (they say Aug 11 for completion) then we should be given a payment holiday of exactly the same time period. It is compeletely inequitable to expect another 10% end of May taking total payments to 60%, again contrary to the 20% rule introduced by RERA. SP - you have let us all down AGAIN and I was so optimistic when you posted the above message giving us a payment delay of a MINIMUM of 6 months. Construction will not begin in June as you say - I would be surprised if it even gets started before Decemebr the rate the developer is going. The whole thing absolutely stinks and enough is enough now.

ive paid 60% with next 20% due april, as im sure u can appreciate am loathed to make that payment with such obvious lack of progress and creditable information.

its a worry and others must be in a similar position, or worse, as it is supposedly sold out....

Big Si

You were due to make another 20% payment this month - has SP sent you the same letter to pay 10% now and 10% in 6 months? We are not going to pay it as explained in the previous post. Did you get anywhere with RERA?

TB, in my knowledge this all has to do with how their contracts are written, and where the risk lies for cost overruns. Unfortunately noone really knows if and what specs can be downgraded by DCE to save costs, but we can assume that Select would have tried to tie them down as much as possible.

It makes sense to have a full design and build service, to ensure that the designs can be built within budget and that the project is safe. Like most engineering tasks, a design is only good if the implementation has been considered, and there is no better way than getting the same company to do both.

From the limited knowledge I have about the apartment sales agreements it makes it difficult for me to debate your points on a sound understanding of all the workings of SP.

I understand that buyers do not get issued with a finishes or equipment schedule in the agreement which would limit the ability of the developer/D&B contractor to reduce the spec. I do know that Cayan do issue such schedules that specifically state things like;

"Living/Dining room, floor marble with 100 marble skirting. Plaster and paint ceiling with plasterboard bulkheads and cornicing. Walls to be plaster and emulsion paint finish on solid concrete or blockwork.

Ensuite bathroom sanitarywares to be Velleroy and Boch or similar quality.......All kitchen appliances to be Bosch Seimens.....etc.etc..."

I understand that SP leave these important issues wide open unlike their purse.

D&B projects do have significant advantages but only if the performance requirements are expressly stated and detailed to the "n"th degree. I don't believe they are experienced enough to have this in hand, just to use this form of contract to minimise the exposure to them of missmanaging the design process and failing to properly execute the construction contract without entering into a serious dispute or claim.

TB - I am disappointed that you are debating the details of finishing when we are talking about when the project may start and the inequity of paying 60% before anything has happened on the site. Where is you usual esteemed wisdom?

hi kingsmaite
i received the letter today and for sure will be replying that i will not be adhereing to that payment request. with all the positive noises from sp thought that there would be a realistic payment reschedule.
with my payment plan i would be fully paid by nov 09 and for sure thats 2 years to completion-i dont think so.
RERA advised me NOT to pay anymore and i will be citing that in my reply.
also has any1 received their land registration document??
a site update would be appreciated by any locals please, as have recently seen how easy it is to make a 'build' appear to be commencing-check out lahoya bay....

TB - I am disappointed that you are debating the details of finishing when we are talking about when the project may start and the inequity of paying 60% before anything has happened on the site. Where is you usual esteemed wisdom?

That was six months ago, I'm on the next chapter already:)

"Last month saw the submittal of the piling design for
approval and we’re now pleased to inform you that the
piling contract has been awarded to the Middle East
Foundation Group. Registration of the contractor in the
Dubai Municipality took place on March 22nd and the
piling works have now commenced.
We’d also like to take this opportunity to inform you that
Consultants on the project have changed from the
architects JRHP to Dubai Civil Engineering’s partner NEB.
Following the unexpected delay between shoring and
piling the developer has conducted a review of the
construction programme for Botanica and recalculated the
estimated completion date to be August 2011."


Can I just clarify in relation to this excerpt that there is no 'partnership' between DCE and NEB on this project.

NEB is appointed in the role of the Engineer for the project and as such any partnership with the building contractor, if it existed, might suggest that they would not exhibit the impartiality they would be expected to in relation to the construction contract.

Select Group would not appoint an Engineer to monitor and guide a Contractor who was a partner in this sense.

Whilst NEB have performed the role of Engineer on other projects for Select Group and DCE have also been appointed building contractor, it was unintentional to imply that the two organisations were partners.

thank you.

Once again SP has managed to crush the little bit of investor confidence that was starting to come back - just amazing.

The promise of a 6-month payment break was well received when posted on here a while back.

But what do we get when the papers arrive? Still got to pay 10% now and another 10% at the end of the year, when the project is clearly going to be at least 12-18 months late (and maybe more).

If I treated my customers like this, I'd have gone out of business long ago. I was genuinely encouraged by recent events as it seemed that SP were getting a bit real.

Now, with this latest stunt, they have p****d that modest investor confidence right up the wall.

I will not be making the next payment.

hi kingsmaite
i received the letter today and for sure will be replying that i will not be adhereing to that payment request. with all the positive noises from sp thought that there would be a realistic payment reschedule.
with my payment plan i would be fully paid by nov 09 and for sure thats 2 years to completion-i dont think so.
RERA advised me NOT to pay anymore and i will be citing that in my reply.
also has any1 received their land registration document??
a site update would be appreciated by any locals please, as have recently seen how easy it is to make a 'build' appear to be commencing-check out lahoya bay....

Hi Big Si

I am sending you and Blue Horizon a PM on this regarding RERA.

Have any of you tried to move to another development?

From the limited knowledge I have about the apartment sales agreements it makes it difficult for me to debate your points on a sound understanding of all the workings of SP.

I understand that buyers do not get issued with a finishes or equipment schedule in the agreement which would limit the ability of the developer/D&B contractor to reduce the spec. I do know that Cayan do issue such schedules that specifically state things like;

"Living/Dining room, floor marble with 100 marble skirting. Plaster and paint ceiling with plasterboard bulkheads and cornicing. Walls to be plaster and emulsion paint finish on solid concrete or blockwork.

Ensuite bathroom sanitarywares to be Velleroy and Boch or similar quality.......All kitchen appliances to be Bosch Seimens.....etc.etc..."

I understand that SP leave these important issues wide open unlike their purse.

D&B projects do have significant advantages but only if the performance requirements are expressly stated and detailed to the "n"th degree. I don't believe they are experienced enough to have this in hand, just to use this form of contract to minimise the exposure to them of missmanaging the design process and failing to properly execute the construction contract without entering into a serious dispute or claim.

My contracts with SP/SG have specific finishes listed on them almost identical to the examle you listed above of Cayan. Schedule 3 page 17 in BC contracts. They even go as far as to list the finishes in the common areas, pools and gyms, etc. It has 14 sections on apartment finishes, 4 on community hall, 3 on gym and 4 on pool decks.

Taken at 8am this morning from my hotel room. Only noticed a few workers.

http://i43.tinypic.com/k0ld1y.jpg

Are they pilling here now ?

http://i44.tinypic.com/2qvqy5z.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/335gj12.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/vy9zb9.jpg

Does anybody have the address for rera

^^
You can find out by calling RERA on +971-4-222-1112

Thanks paul needed number for complaint about sp

Does anybody have the address for rera

IT is P.O. box 1166, Dubai UAE
It is printed on the bottom of the letter that I got from them

I was at the Land Department yesterday. i defaulted on my last Bay Central payment to get the Land Department involved to sort out the issues of the hotel and the substantial delays.

they told me (the legal affairs center) that only the Land Department can cancel contracts, and if Select terminates any contract without going through the Land Department, they will give you a letter informing Select, or any developer for that matter, that the termination they did is "illegal".

More good news, if you are on the Standard Payment Plan, they will "force" Select to link payments to construction progress.

They said these are the laws of the land now.

Cool....but what about those people on the LPP :(

I was at the Land Department yesterday. i defaulted on my last Bay Central payment to get the Land Department involved to sort out the issues of the hotel and the substantial delays.

they told me (the legal affairs center) that only the Land Department can cancel contracts, and if Select terminates any contract without going through the Land Department, they will give you a letter informing Select, or any developer for that matter, that the termination they did is "illegal".

More good news, if you are on the Standard Payment Plan, they will "force" Select to link payments to construction progress.

They said these are the laws of the land now.

Good for you Glover for making a stand. Many of us are planning not to make the next payment so this is all reassuring to hear. Keep us posted on how you get on with SP on this.

good piece of info glover very well done.
did you manage to get your land registry document?

as for the LPP, it is not clear! i might have to go to court/arbitration board for that.

i have not paid to register my properties. was not convinced when select asked for money for registration that it was the right thing to do. the land department is no longer asking for it today, i think now you have to pay it only when you sell the apartment or the project is complete.

I am on the LPP. I went to the legal dept. of RERA on the 4th floor they read my contract and the reservation form which states that 15% is due on reservation and 15% after 6 months. They used simple math 15+15= 30% So the legal department advised me not to pay.
I received a letter from select property stating that I have paid only 22% from the total amount of the unit . I went back to RERA and they told me that select property is using a new calculation method by adding the interest to the original price of the unit and the interset and their nmethod of calculation is wrong and misleading. they told me it is clear that I have paid more than 30%. As far as RERA is concerned I am not in default and any termination has to go through them and they will not terminate my contract because they are convinced that I have paid more than 30%.
I sent select property this information and they still insist that I paid only 22% based on their new mothod of calculation.

^^Thank you for posting the above information. Very useful info for all of us on LPP plans on their various devs.

I am on the LPP. I went to the legal dept. of RERA on the 4th floor they read my contract and the reservation form which states that 15% is due on reservation and 15% after 6 months. They used simple math 15+15= 30% So the legal department advised me not to pay.
I received a letter from select property stating that I have paid only 22% from the total amount of the unit . I went back to RERA and they told me that select property is using a new calculation method by adding the interest to the original price of the unit and the interset and their nmethod of calculation is wrong and misleading. they told me it is clear that I have paid more than 30%. As far as RERA is concerned I am not in default and any termination has to go through them and they will not terminate my contract because they are convinced that I have paid more than 30%.
I sent select property this information and they still insist that I paid only 22% based on their new mothod of calculation.
Does this apply to RAK Pacific projects also ?

Rera regulates property in the emirate of Dubai only.

Does anyone know if there is any progress on Botanica or are the pilers just parked there for effect?

^^
Dont worry, I have seen activity at the Botanica site.

^^
and that is - an adequate workforce getting down to it or the pilling equipment moving from Point A to Point B? Here's a tip SP - move workers from BC to this site just to get the investors here happy for a week or two + reason to pay their next installments ... once all paid .... move workers back to BC. :bash:

^^
Dont worry, I have seen activity at the Botanica site.


Thanks Paul66! We are trying to negotiate a payment delay as another 20% is due end May taking it to 70%. But I am getting the distinct impression that there is tension between the developer and SP, as SP has just advised us to make contact with the developer directly. I suspect they are probably fed up to the back teeth being piggy in the middle all the time when clearly the developer is not playing fair.

Thanks Paul66! We are trying to negotiate a payment delay as another 20% is due end May taking it to 70%. But I am getting the distinct impression that there is tension between the developer and SP, as SP has just advised us to make contact with the developer directly. I suspect they are probably fed up to the back teeth being piggy in the middle all the time when clearly the developer is not playing fair.

Refer to post 589 above - you need to quote RERA new policy and pay on construction %ages

I can' believe that you guys are still paying? RERA'S law is clear and those who have paid 30% or more and still making payments are risking their money.

I can' believe that you guys are still paying? RERA'S law is clear and those who have paid 30% or more and still making payments are risking their money.

It's my understanding from speaking to a lawyer in Dubai that this RERA guideline is merely that and is not law as yet. The lawyer has advised me that unless the regulation becomes law then we are governed by the contract that exists between the investor and GG.

Has anyone managed to obtain a payment delay using the RERA regulation then?

Yes I got a letter from RERA stating that they have instructed all developers not to collect more than 30%. I am on the LPP and when I showed them my contract they told me not to pay and when I got letters from SP threatening to terminate my contract I took the letter to the Legal Department of RERA on the 4th floor and said all terminations have to go through RERA and if we find you in default then we will send you a letter and you have 30 days to make the payment.
Select Property still wants to play by the old rules which are not valid anymore. So dont let SP intimidate you, they are very good at it, but the facts are the Laws in Dubai have changed.

^^ Am I right in thinking however that when you signed your LPP contract that you also signed a separate letter which states that you forfeit all rights to your property should you miss any payment for any reason etc.

RERA are currently considering the cancellation of 27 projects.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/555275-dubai-mulls-cancellation-of-27-projects---rera

"Ghalita said on Monday the committee would cancel projects based on RERA's decision whether or not they should continue, a request from developers to cancel, or through complaints to the watchdog from project investors."

So one of the criteria is complaints from investors. Given the clear lack of any real progress since commencement of the project. I suggest registering a complaint is a good idea. In event of cancellation, investors are entitled to a refund.

This is a good description of the new law being enacted in the event of default.
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090506/BUSINESS/705069992

I think the sliding scale benefits the developer as they only have to start a project to retain 25% of the purchase price. Now what does start mean. I would argue that it has to be looked at in the context of lapsed time. Therefore if over a 12 month period all the developer has done is shore the site and sink a couple of piles, I would argue that is not a meaningful start. However the developer has to complete 60% of the project to keep 40% of the purchase price. The value of this guideline is why would I want to pay the developer more than 25% until the project is at least 60% completed. The other thing it clarifies is that developers can't simply cancel the contract without going through the land department. The new law No 9 does not yet appear on the RERA website. I will follow-up with RERA on the enactment date. It is planed that the law will be retroactive, so will over-ride sales agreements.

^^ Am I right in thinking however that when you signed your LPP contract that you also signed a separate letter which states that you forfeit all rights to your property should you miss any payment for any reason etc.

Yes but the letter also states that this agreement is governed by the laws applicable in the Emriates od Dubai, UAE.

From my understanding only Rera has the authority to cancel any sales agreement...the developer will have to apply to Rera for cancellation.Rera will in turn contact the investor to discuss grievances ,if any,before cancellation is effected.:)



Nakheel(more recently) as well as Deyaar and others have announced discounts on projects with little or no progress till date (due to substantial savings in construction costs.)
The developer of Botanica has not yet signed on the main contractor,
and as such will save millions on signing the contract now .
I think the benefit of this must be passed on to the investors who have, till now patiently waited for any sign of construction.
This seems the best way to penalise the developer for this lengthy delay.
Rera may facilitate this if a large number of investors complain...The reduction of service fees in JBR is proof enough.

Just wondering if anyone have any latest pictures of the construction progress for Botanica? Unfortunately, I am away from Dubai for a while.

regards,
Paul

Here you go paul66; taken this afternoon:


http://i42.tinypic.com/9bdpqf.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/11j88b5.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/jrw6yh.jpg


I'd say around 20 labourers on site along with the heavy equipment operators. Since the building footprint is so small, it "looks" quite busy down in the hole but I have no idea to what extent they are progressing.

Cheers,

Dune

Many thanks for the pictures Dune,
Having labourers working at the site is always good news!

Received the following from Dubai property portal.

"Dear Member,

Here are the latest news stories for the week in review regarding Dubai Property & Real Estate:

Nakheel Offers Discounts To Customers:

Nakheel, one of the largest property developers in Dubai, is offering its customers discounts of between 10 per cent and 30 per cent on some of its projects to encourage them to pay on time. To qualify, buyers will have to settle outstanding balances and continue to pay their instalments on time. The scheme is available to those who have bought in Jumeirah Island Mansions, Jumeirah Heights Clusters, Badrah phases one and two, Marina Residences and Veneto.

"Nakheel is aware that the current economic conditions pose a challenge to some customers and is, as such, introducing some initiatives to help customers meet their commitments and obligations towards Nakheel," the company said. "Customers are presented with the chance to save a certain percentage on the total value of their property if they pay on time. This is in line with our responsible actions to help maintain a healthy market movement and deliver properties to customers in a timely manner."

So when will Select Property make a similar approach!
I also read in the property mag that RERA will be assessing the extent to which developers have managed to retain investors and therfore the liklihood of completing the project as part of their current review. Therefore if the investors have declared they are not prepared to put any more money in the project it raises the question about cancelletion. The smart developers have realised this and instead of threating investors with default notices have sought to encourage investors to stay the distance.

Hi Guys, I am a new member, but following this thread since the last year or so. Decided to join this forum finally, as I was in Dubai last week, just came back from there on Bank holiday monday.

Went to dubai after like 10 years, and absolutely loved it, was amazed at how nice it would be to live there. Botanica I must say if built, will be in a perfect location, close to the beach, The Walk and surrounded by beautiful buildings all around.

Now the worry, I have got 2 apartments in Botanica bought back in December 2007, 1 of them on SP and the other on LPP. The LPP have paid more than 30% so far and the SP have paid already 50% already with the next 10% due in 3 days time.

Went a couple of times past the building last week but could not see any visible work happening there apart from a couple of crains standing still there. Dont know maybe it was the wrong time of the day when I was passing from there. The worry is that Select is asking for the next payment now and as I have already paid 50% for the standard payment plan, am reluctant to pay another 10% now as clearly the building has not even 10 percent built so far.

The question is that if anyone is actually in the same position as I am and is someone actually not paying this installment that is coming up. I am worried that if I decide to not pay, then select would cancel my contract and I would loose all the money. I dont mind paying, and really looking forward to move to dubai in the next 3-4 years, and hope this building gets build and select property actually gets this project completed.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

^^The land department has ruled that all payments should be linked to construction milestones. This ruling is legally binding and all developers have to follow it. If Select still demands payments from you, go to the land department and they will give you a letter instructing Select to link payments to construction.

Here is more info.

- read about the ruling here, dated 14-2-09.

"The rule states that developers must own 100% of the land they are building on, and restricts them from collecting more than 20% of the cost of the property from the buyer prior to construction.

Payments will also be linked to construction milestones being met by the developer."

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=546640&Itemid=1

- read this interview with Emad Farouq, Senior Legal Counsel at the Dubai Land Department, to discuss Law 13 and its practical application from the perspective of the Land Department, dated 12-May-09.

"What further regulations can we expect following Law 13 e.g. regulation on payment plans being linked to construction milestones?

RERA is working on regulations specifically on the issue of payment plans for installments of the purchase price for off-plan units to be linked to actual construction milestones rather than time-based payment plans. RERA is also working on a regulation that will require developers who wish to apply for consent to start selling off-plan to have paid for the land and received the title deed, and also to have completed at least 20% of the construction of the project at the time of the application. "

http://www.zawya.com/printstory.cfm?storyid=ZAWYA20090512103836&l=103800090512

- and read message #8 in this thread, dated 24-03-09 of one investor who actually got a letter from the Land Department directing the developer to link payments to construction.

"RERA letter to Dubai developers
I've been to RERA this morning
decided to invest some time in getting some answers on off plan
I have purchased a studio from Almasah - Jouri 4
they have collected 45% to date and they started construction this month

So RERA officer gave me a letter stating that developers can not ask more then 30% before construction starts. if the buyer paid more then 30% - then payments must be linked to construction stages. I was told to give this letter to the developer ! let see how it works! I'm gonna visit them sooon

You can get this letter from RERA counter on the ground floor ."

http://www.dubaiforum.net/property-dubai/410-rera-rule.html

Hi Glover, thanks for your reply

great, I will wait until they contact me as they havent called me since a while now, before they used to call me almost every 2nd week to check how are things, but since the last 6 months, only 1 phone call and that was also to ask if I want to invest in their new project of part ownership or something like that.

I told them about no docs recieved for the land registry and they said that they are going to chase it up for me, but since then no reply. this was like 4 months ago.

I havent recieved anything from them for either of my 2 properties and really getting worried as I am soo looking forward to it.

However, cannot go to the lands dept as I am back in London, now but if things get really bad, I might visit dubai again to visit the RERA and lands dept.

This thread was becoming really quite recently, lets put some life back into it.

Hi

Was just going though the RERA website and found the project BOTANICA is under

Developer Name : Global Group International
LimitedMaster Developer : EMAAR PROPERTIES PJSC
Trust Acc. Number : 3730930
Bank Name : Dubai Islamic Bank

All this time I was thinking the developer is DUBAI SELECT or SELECT GROUP, Is Global Group International the same as Dubai Select or am looking at something completely different.

It's the same thing-they just changed their name to Global Group (I think to be in the Freezone-?financial reason or jurisdiction purposes).

fine, relaxes me a little bit, are you making any further payments?

Sorry-I don't own any apartments in Botanica-I only have a studio at the Royal Oceanic next door which is under Global Group/Dubai Select too.

cool , no worries, thanks for the reply

Hi guys, is anyone paying the 10% due on the 01st of June. Please any help!!!!

I missed a payment in March and will not make the next payment due in June. I WILL NOT make any more payments until I get a notification from RERA.
Select property's threatining emails and letters used to worry me but not anymore.

I missed a payment in March and will not make the next payment due in June. I WILL NOT make any more payments until I get a notification from RERA.
Select property's threatining emails and letters used to worry me but not anymore.

Same here I love Dubai....

Looks like RERA are firming things up a bit...

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090529/NATIONAL/705289838/1010

The Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Authority (Rera) has frozen the escrow accounts in an effort to protect investors’ interests as the property market grapples with falling prices and a shortage of lending. By law, all money made from the sale of off-plan property must go into an escrow account, to be used solely for the construction of the property.

Marwan bin Ghalita, the chief executive of Rera, said the developers in question needed to provide technical reports detailing the progress of construction before they could withdraw money from the accounts. “There can be no withdrawal until they have completed the technical report,” he said.

“Payment needs to be linked to construction progress.

“They also need to prove to Rera that they have registered investors’ rights with the Land Department.”
Mr bin Ghalita would not say how many accounts had been frozen.

cool, eases me a little bit. I wrote to a few email addresses yesterday regarding this issue, dont know whether a right move or not, but did not know how to proceed.

Wrote an email to select UK, Select Dubai and also CC info@rera.ae

I aint expecting a reply anytime soon though, but lets wait and see. Will keep you posted as to what they say.

My Girlfriend is LPP and she did make the payment yesterday, but I am on SPP and refused to do so as I have been too careless until now and have made payments well before due dates in the past. Select on the other hand has shown no contact, any consutruction, no land regsitry papers, nothing.

sometimes i wonder what made me buy an off plan property, i never used to get myself involved in these investments, but I guess their were some sleepless nights written in my fate.

AZLotia, we look forward to seeing what Select/Rera reply to your emails.

Also, I thought Select has given some payment breaks to those on the SPP, did you not get the letter?

hi paul, got the letter, but it asks for 10% now and 10% in December. before it was 20% and 20% and now reduced to 10% , but still its already like 50% paid and the progress is nowhere near the mark. I will call the Dubai Select tomorrow and speak to them to see what they say. There is no sign for the LAW 13 papers even though I paid like last october.

Hi guys, is anyone paying the 10% due on the 01st of June. Please any help!!!!

Azlotia

Yes we are in exactly the same boat - 50% paid on the SPP on 2 apts in Botanica. We are not paying the 10% now and have requested a payment delay via a request form to GG which was faxed over a while back - no response as yet. If you read the Bay Central thread quite a lot of investors have had payment breaks given, some up to 12 months, and BC is well ahead of Botanica in terms of construction. As far as I am concerned that sets a precedent.

My personal belief is that piling is not happening as quickly as it should and that they are nowhere near hiring a contractor. I cannot see them starting to build until later this year/early next year and so to demand a penny more than 50% already paid is totally unacceptable, unreasonable and unfair. They need to get real in line with other developers who are not only offering payment breaks but are also discounting the properties in order to keep investors on board. I suspect a lot of investors will be defaulting on paying on Botanica. The developer has to sit up and take us seriously at some point which they have shown zero evidence of so far.

great stuff, kingsmaite

i have requested the same from Dubai Select as well, will keep you posted. Its good to know that I am not the only one.

Keep me posted

cheers

http://i41.tinypic.com/2dtos5t.jpg

Taken half hour ago. There were 3 piling rigs but 1 has been removed. They are inserting the caisions and concrete going in. Approx 15 guys on site.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2mg6txx.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/29v101u.jpg

This shows that assuming the RM stays as is The Botanica, should it get built will from rear high floors above 15 or so will have stunning sea and palm views. There is a lot of access problems for construction here and front views towards the marina may be hindered as there are quiet a few plots that have not started building yet.

http://i43.tinypic.com/dlkxli.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/29v101u.jpg

Firstly, thank you for posting the pics CBP :applause:

We hope Botanica does get built, as it is in a fabulous location and will have spectacular views especially from the Garden floor.

What is the name of the completed building right next to Botanica (on the right hand side of this photo)?

:booze:

I think the building on the right is linked to the Grand Al Habtoor - Habtoor Residence at a guess but I'm not sure.

Dose anyone know if anything is going to be built on the plot to the left of Botanica? i.e. next to Royal Oceanic and Skyview towers.

Thanks so much for the pics Charlie Big Pots - much appreciated!

I think the building on the right is linked to the Grand Al Habtoor - Habtoor Residence at a guess but I'm not sure.

Dose anyone know if anything is going to be built on the plot to the left of Botanica? i.e. next to Royal Oceanic and Skyview towers.

Thanks so much for the pics Charlie Big Pots - much appreciated!

Yes its the Habtoor commercial tower.

There are no boards up on the plot. It plot number 9K if you want to do some research on it, my guess is that it will not have anything done to it until the Dubai offplan market comes back around...whenever that will be!

http://www.tigerzilla.com/images/botanica_construction_milestones_APR2009.jpg

According to the above schedule (estimated by Select in APR2009), We should expect the Foundation to start from the middle of this month.

Paul

great news....keep these posts coming

To add to the "good news", I inquired last week about the status of our registration with the Dubai Land Department (OQOOD) and they sent me a copy of the completed registration today.

The date on the contract is 01 June 2009 so it appears registration is going forward. Interesting to note on the contract Global Group International did not submit the fees to the government until 25 Apr 2009 (the registration fees were paid to Select on 23 Nov 2008).

FYI

6pm here and looking at the site from my room, still busy piling and pouring. They have had a dozen mixers there today and were still working past midnight when us on the wrong side of 40 were turning in. Took some good stuff for here today will post later.

That is because there is a payment Due. They want to encourage investors to pay. Activites will slow down or stop when they receive most of the payments. Next time we will see activities on this site will be be in september, when the next payment is due.

I take it your glass is half empty not half full.

That is because there is a payment Due. They want to encourage investors to pay. Activites will slow down or stop when they receive most of the payments. Next time we will see activities on this site will be be in september, when the next payment is due.

^^
you need to be a bit more optimistic mate, bay central is having payments breaks and is progressing nicely, should give botanica investors a bit of confidence....

all looks good for now....talked to the Dubai Office on Sunday and said construction is going to speed up from the summer and hopefully we will see some real progress being made on Botanica. Looking at the posts from CBP, it looks optimistic as well.

CBP I would be really interested in looking at those pics you took from your room mate. Am soo jealous as I was there just last week and its absolutely fantastic!!

Just saw an article on Arabian Business and thought I would share

Abu Dhabi-based Hydra Properties on Wednesday handed a string of concessions to investors on its flagship project, Hydra Village, in a bid to allay rising investor anger.

Commercial director Ahmed Khalil, who was bought into the company by CEO Sulaiman Al Fahim six months ago to oversee sales, said customers who had put down 50 percent installment would receive a payment break until early 2010.

He also said that late payment fees would be scrapped with immediate effect.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/557621-investors-clash-with-hydra-chief-over-homes-delay

But, not many developers have shed loads of cash like Hydra who like wasting their money on buying Portsmouth FC!

If only they bought West Ham!.....I can only dream!

^^
you need to be a bit more optimistic mate, bay central is having payments breaks and is progressing nicely, should give botanica investors a bit of confidence....

I try to be optimistic, but when I make a decision on making payments on a project like this which could end me up in losing my hard earned money, should be based on reality not optimism.

But, not many developers have shed loads of cash like Hydra who like wasting their money on buying Portsmouth FC!

If only they bought West Ham!.....I can only dream!

Actually they just spend the investors money what they have collected but what is U/C for them ?:)

http://www.billyelliottheatretickets.co.uk/P1000409.JPG

Just testing how this image uploading works

http://www.billyelliottheatretickets.co.uk/lemer.gif

I will stick a few pics up tonight, this site has been busy this week but not a great deal to see as its all underground but continual activity.

http://i40.tinypic.com/f0p6cg.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2pyncc4.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/6td8ix.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/117s56q.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/245kdjq.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/24448pu.jpg

CBP...you are awesome

You dont know how pleasing it is for me and my partner to watch any pics related to Botanica.

Thanks a lot

Easy tiger..............

You are very welcome. I know what its like when you 3ooo miles away especially in the early stages and when there is doubt looming. I always stay th The GH in the same room so I will keep you posted. There are many on here that live in the marina thay contribute nothing but scarcasm and lies, shame on them.:ohno:

i know, i have been reading THE POINT thread all the time, and all this talk about the Addendum is kind of scaring me as well. A Lot of negative threads recently on the point thread regarding SP's tactics etc. I am hopeful that the point investors get what they want and SP learn from their mistakes and turns out to be better for their other developments once those are near completion....cheers

I'M RATHER CONFUSED!!... SP say they do not own any projects but the quote from the article that was posted on 10/6/09, Mart Stott quotes the following:

"Three years later, while other players in the market were exercising caution, Stott’s appetite for risk forced him to make the high-stakes acquisition of Aquitania that could have sunk the firm without a trace – instead, it made Select Property one of the largest players on the Dubai investment property market. "

A quick response back from SP saying they do not own any projects in Dubai and are just 'selling agents' seems to prove that they are not completely telling the truth!.. COMPLETE LIARS. Wouldn't trust them as far as I could I throw them!

Also payment was due on Aquitania by 1st June 2009. Have not received a default notice. Has anyone else receive default notices for this or any other SP projects from Dubai Select who are supposed to be the sole owners?

SP are experts in making threats, actually they have many employees who are trained to do nothing but issue theating emails, phone calls and mail.
My advise to you is to DISGARD any default notice you recieve from SP.
The only notices that you should take seriously are the ones from RERA.
P.S.
This posting of mine will be followed by a posting from a SP agent prentending to be an investor and the messege will state how wrong I am.

Still piling here, at it all day yesterday until late and back at 6.30am this morning.
http://i39.tinypic.com/eal6hv.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2yoshp5.jpg

15/June/2009



http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3848/imresoltdubaiphotos055.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/imresoltdubaiphotos055.jpg/)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3687/imresoltdubaiphotos052.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/imresoltdubaiphotos052.jpg/)

15/June/2009

Botanica

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4478/imresoltdubaiphotos061.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/imresoltdubaiphotos061.jpg/)

Site was alight and piling until gone 10pm last night. Seems like a bit of push here.

Site was alight and piling until gone 10pm last night. Seems like a bit of push here.
Judging by the historic build datums on The POINT project this will be 2 and 1/2 year to handover at least still

You never know... if the continue working day and night, we may get away with completion BEFORE the actual completion date of AUG 2011.

...I know, I know.....wishful thinking!

Well they are mobilizing the site for pile testing so the piling should be complete soon. There is lorry after lorry of 1 meter sq concrete cubes being delivered. I will get you a picture once the deliveries are over.

CBP...
Why doesn't Select employ you as an Investor Relations Executive - your doing a much better job than they do.

but you'd have to work for free of course!

CBP...
Why doesn't Select employ you as an Investor Relations Executive - your doing a much better job than they do.

but you'd have to work for free of course!

yes, well said paul....Guys like IMRE and CBP arre really doing a much better job than SP/SG are doing for sure.

Requested my 01st June payment reciept from them like 10 days ago and still no reply....:ohno:

Thanks both IMRE and CBP for putting in reg updates

just joined this forum hi to all have been following your threads for months you have been my most solid route to any information on botanica and for that a big thanks to all.still in limbo im on the lpp and havent made my june payment am i the only one in this boat!!!!!:nuts:having worked in construction for years the progress is painfully slow!!i spoke to rera and they told me they were reviewing all the projects and that if sp ask me for any more payments it should be approved by them,any advice would be great thanks again

Construction Milestone as of JUNE 2009...
http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/images/botanica_construction_milestones_JUN2009.jpg


heres the old one as of APR 2009...
http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/images/botanica_construction_milestones_APR2009.jpg

Lets hope things are on track going forward :cheers:

Thanks paul...lets hope they keep upto their word this time....will get to know in a couple of weeks , how much they are progressing with the actual foundation work

Sorry guys these were taken last wed 18th but didnt know I had them. It shows piling over and the equipment leaving and the test blocks on site. Not sure on progress over the past 10 days.

http://i40.tinypic.com/i2lx8h.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2yxejja.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/5l2vwg.jpg

Thanks CBP....if you get a chance to take latest ones to show if foundation work has started...would be much appreciated

Standard Payment Plan
£3000/€4200 reservation fee
15% on Contract
15% March 09
20% June 09
20% December 09
20% June 2010
10% Completion
latest payment schedule from select website


pictures are great and can say more than a thousand words, so thanx for those guys.

Thanks CBP....if you get a chance to take latest ones to show if foundation work has started...would be much appreciated

Some lens I would need from Hampstead. Will be back in a few weeks and will keep you updated. The foundation work probably wont start for a while as they will be pile testing.

^^
Lens only available from Hamstead?.....it must be special!

Standard Payment Plan
£3000/€4200 reservation fee
15% on Contract
15% March 09
20% June 09
20% December 09
20% June 2010
10% Completion
latest payment schedule from select website


pictures are great and can say more than a thousand words, so thanx for those guys.

Investors on the LPP were chrged 50% more on their units so they can pay at a slower rate. With this new plan posted above for SPP it seems that LPP investors have to pay more up to date on top of the 50% that they will pay later.
Select Property, you are bunch of crooks, and you will see my next payment only when I get a notice from RERA.

Construction Milestone as of JUNE 2009...
http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/images/botanica_construction_milestones_JUN2009.jpg


heres the old one as of APR 2009...
http://www.tigerzilla.com/properties/images/botanica_construction_milestones_APR2009.jpg

Lets hope things are on track going forward :cheers:

Anybody knows whó the contract was awarded to? - As it per above schedule has been awarded!!!

And does anybody know if the hole has been filled with concrete?

:banana:

02/July/2009

Botanica plot

http://i43.tinypic.com/125rspf.jpg

Has the Foundation works started yet? It was due to start on 25th June.

Hi Everyone,...any one got any latest progress update on BOTANICA at all...IMRE or CBP? any help or pics would be greatly appreciated

I saw yesterday from the road, driller still there so piling in progress.

12/July/2009

Botanica

http://i32.tinypic.com/2zi3ix1.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/2hqqazq.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/nwc5lh.jpg

17/July/2009

Botanica

http://i30.tinypic.com/292o8jm.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/2mxfo5y.jpg

Thanks IMRE

Is it just me....or it seems like no real progress on BOTANICA since the last update....come on select, show us some building work....I hope this thread gets to atleast UNDER C in a months time

Piling works are never that visible and can take time if the site is restricted for access.

That said, this should have been done a year ago.

Warning to anyone considering buying here or anything from SG directly in the future.

To all SG LPP Victims

We’ve had a response from our lawyer regarding SG’s LPP Addendum. Bearing in mind the legal group have paid for the advice I will not publish the complete report as this would be unfair on those who have stumped up money. I have provided some key points which will hopefully give unsigned LPP owners some comfort and also points for further investigation.

These are the key observations the lawyer made:-

•5A.5 of the Addendum was described as ‘horribly onerous’ and not
consistent with the UAE Civil Code which does not allow developers to treat all monies paid as forfeit in the event of a failure to pay an installment.

•5A.7 Termination would result in a total loss of investment including any rental money received being passed back to SG.

•5.8A – Indemnity has serious implications for an owner in the event SG suffer loss through any action of the owner or owner’s tenants.

•10A.3 – SG retain right to charge ie mortgage the property and in the event that SG default on any loan secured against the property a bank could take possession or sell your unit.

•10A.4 Grants SG “irrevocable authority” to change the agreement for securitisation purposes. This was considered by the lawyer to be undesirable and outside the scope of what this agreement was trying to achieve.

•10.1 Prevents LPP owners from selling the property without SG’s permission. The lawyer could not understand the logic behind this.

•3.1 of the Tenancy agreement is ‘very messy and probably confusing’ as the tenant would be confused who the actual landlord was.

•8.7 Tenancy renewal after 12 months is at the discretion of the developer – This is not consistent with general law, which says that a tenant does have the right to renew except in certain circumstances. It also arguably denies a tenant the benefit of the rent-cap law

Summary

•SG cannot force LPP owners to sign the Addendum. Where they state “you are required to sign” they are being "completely dishonest" – we are not required to sign at all!

•The agreement was considered not fit for purpose, poorly written and full of contradictions. It was suggested a judge would probably give up trying to find any sense in the SPA and Addendum and look to enforce the spirit of the contract.

•We have a legally arguable case for possession if we are not inclined to sign the Addendum.

Warning to anyone considering buying here or anything from SG directly in the future.

I know that it is against the law, that is why I stopped paying eventhough I got threats from SP.
RERA told me NOT to PAY.

so what happens now?

so what happens now?

DON'T make any more payments unless you get a new payment plan approved by RERA

And just to keep you informed, I have been past the Botanica site daily for the past week and there is no work being done. There are still several pieces of heavy equipment on site but not a single worker.

Given the "revised" work schedule which indicated they were to have started foundation construction in late June, this is a worrying development.

any clarity on the short payment plan, which if i pay could nearly be fully paid before the build was out of the ground?????????????

^^In the current climate that would not make sense.

Rera will advise you on what you should do but I would suggest that rather than defaulting you should issue a notice to SP/SG letting them know that you are witholding until you receive confirmation of progress or advice from Rera to continue paying.

^^In the current climate that would not make sense.

Rera will advise you on what you should do but I would suggest that rather than defaulting you should issue a notice to SP/SG letting them know that you are witholding until you receive confirmation of progress or advice from Rera to continue paying.

hi ya im new to this forum and am on the short payment plan.progress is very slow for the amount of money already paid. how do i contact rera and what should i ask them.

Are they still Pile testing? Does anyone know how long this process takes before foundation starts?

Paul

31/July/2009

Botanica

http://i27.tinypic.com/dvo4n5.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/m7cbhe.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2qavclj.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/28gxzq1.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/wjsw3c.jpg

whats the big hole in the ground for?

whats the big hole in the ground for?

The whole in the ground is the pictorial fabrication of decit to get customer of botanica to part with their next installment of 1st September 2009

Makes sense !!! I think...

TO ALL POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS DO NOT TOUCH SELECT PROPERTY AND ESPECIALLY SELECT GROUP WITH A BARGE POLE :ohno:

I have bought a studio in BOTANICA and i am on LPP, i have kept my installments upto date till now but never got any receitps for my LPP - March and Land registry fee paid in december 2008.

Eventually managed to get a document from Land department confirming my registration with them, I have since skipped my installment for the month of June, surprisengly i have not received any letter from the developer about defaulting a payment.

I am in dubai currently on a holiday and rang the Developer office this morning, discussed my case at length and the girl i was speaking to acknowledged the payment delays etc..and to my surprise was willing to negotiate a payment break for me if i detailed my case, which would have been put forward to the management for approval.

I called RERA to take a second opinion and was told by the person on the phone to "Stop Payments" if the developer cannot forward a "RERA approved development plan", does anyone know what details this plan?

My understanding is that payments will be linked to milestones from RERA after the developer submits a "Construction Plan update", this is very much likely to benefit people on SPP, what about people on LPP who have already paid almost 35% of the monies till date?

Does anyone have any details on "How this RERA approved construction plan" work??

I am planning to visit the RERA office in a few days to discuss the details ..Anyone would like me to ask any questions on their behalf?? Please let me know.

I have been trying to get on and log on to this site for a long time now but issues with log in, anyway managed to create a new account today and hopefully will be actively contributing to this forume, i have been a regulary reader here and i think it's a good idea to keep everyone dealing with Select on BOTANICA in loop.

I have bought a studio in BOTANICA and i am on LPP, i have kept my installments upto date till now but never got any receitps for my LPP - March and Land registry fee paid in december 2008.

Eventually managed to get a document from Land department confirming my registration with them, I have since skipped my installment for the month of June, surprisengly i have not received any letter from the developer about defaulting a payment.

I am in dubai currently on a holiday and rang the Developer office this morning, discussed my case at length and the girl i was speaking to acknowledged the payment delays etc..and to my surprise was willing to negotiate a payment break for me if i detailed my case, which would have been put forward to the management for approval.

I called RERA to take a second opinion and was told by the person on the phone to "Stop Payments" if the developer cannot forward a "RERA approved development plan", does anyone know what details this plan?

My understanding is that payments will be linked to milestones from RERA after the developer submits a "Construction Plan update", this is very much likely to benefit people on SPP, what about people on LPP who have already paid almost 35% of the monies till date?

Does anyone have any details on "How this RERA approved construction plan" work??

I am planning to visit the RERA office in a few days to discuss the details ..Anyone would like me to ask any questions on their behalf?? Please let me know.

I have been trying to get on and log on to this site for a long time now but issues with log in, anyway managed to create a new account today and hopefully will be actively contributing to this forume, i have been a regulary reader here and i think it's a good idea to keep everyone dealing with Select on BOTANICA in loop.
It seems like no one has been reading my posts and my details of my visits to RERA and their Legal department telling me to stop all payments which I did 6 months ago, by the way I am on the LPP too.

^^It is very good to see forumers posting the benefit of their experiences for the help of others. All this being necessary due to the developer not taking the lead to look after it's customers.

Sbhola1- I've got a Select apartment at the Royal Oceanic-if you're going to RERA/Land Dept I would appreciate it a lot if you could ask for me if I can them the Oqood fee of 1000AED direct rather than go thro' Select who are asking for 3000AED, and what I would have to do to pay them-can I pay direct to their bank a/c or do I have to visit in person, and will they need some documents from me ? Also if you can ask them if they have any offices near Dubai Marina, or closer than Deira office, please :)

Sbhola1- I've got a Select apartment at the Royal Oceanic-if you're going to RERA/Land Dept I would appreciate it a lot if you could ask for me if I can them the Oqood fee of 1000AED direct rather than go thro' Select who are asking for 3000AED, and what I would have to do to pay them-can I pay direct to their bank a/c or do I have to visit in person, and will they need some documents from me ? Also if you can ask them if they have any offices near Dubai Marina, or closer than Deira office, please :)

You can handle or settle the Land registration fee @ handover of your Royal Oceanic unit. No need to be concerned about it now.

Thanks buster007-but I just wanted to try and sort it now rather than when I come over to Dubai because it's so hot there and I don't want to stay any longer than I need to, so if I can sort it now it would be better for me; any info from the Land Dept now would be useful for me too.

hi , "I love Dubai", i have been reading all your posts and you have posted some very useful information and it seems you have good sources and are well aware and connected, i think we should start more detailed posts for the benifit of most of the people who are unaware of what's going on and maybe have a lot of money to keep throwing every 3 months (LPP)

Just another thing , when i spoke to Select the last time they also acknowledged that a letter is being issued by RERA telling them to "stop payments" but the letter doesn't mention a reference to the developer..I was told it'sa standard letter they issue to everyone..There is no legal meaning of this letter as there is no Law (yet) about all these regulations..on the other hand if we do get the letter from RERA and stop payments, Select has to go through RERA to obtain any permission to Cancel the contract or send a legal notice of default & obviosuly RERA would have known that they are the ones who have told me to stop payments in the first place..so the whole thing is in air..

Also does anyone know what happend to some kind of a comittee the government was creating to look over projects they didn't seem viable and would make a decision on cancelling them?? would BOTANICA be considered for cancellation?

Another interesting point is - "RERA approved payment plan", does this only take into consideration people on SPP or has room for people on LPP. we have paid nearly 40% more for our properties on LPP, i guess the rule to calculate the % payments made till now should be something which takes into consideration "if we were assumed to be on SPP" how much would we have paid till date & then some how link us the (construction milestone to payment schedule), i think this is important to know as Select is assuming that altering the completion milestone should not have any effect on people on LPP which i think is wrong , afterall we have also paid the premium approx 40% more for our properties..

So are these actions by RERA just guidelines or best practice recommendations which developers can ignore if they choose ?? Are SG saying that adhering to RERA is essentially voluntary then at the end of the day ??

Doesn't sound right to me, it's like saying financial institutions in the UK are able to ignore the rulings of the FSA (Financial Services Authority). Everything single requirement of the FSA does not have to be enshrined in a new law every time they make a decison on something. It is automatically binding on the institutions they are controlling. Not sure if the UAE is similar but for every requirement of RERA to have to be law would be ridiculous.

hi guys...some really worrying comments recently posted above...just came back from holiday and see this forum is all active

sbhola1<< please keep us posted on the RERA meeting...I have 2 in BOTANICA, 1 on SPP and 1 on LPP and have kept to all payments on time so far....any break in payment would be really beneficial as progress seems to be totally invisible on this project...all other projects of SG like BAY CENTRAL, TORCH, POINT are all showing some progress apart from this one BOTANICA...

Keep the posts coming please

Just popped into the RERA office yesterday, very efficient till i got my ticket number, went on to the desk, wasn't very pleased with the official looking very ignorant and least interested in what i had to say.

1. RERA now have a "Progress indicator" for every project - you can see this new indicator on RERA's website (search for developer), this indicates the progress of the project, very slef explanatory, for BOTANICA, there is no indicator because Select have not yet sent RERA the updated schedule/construction plan or what everyou call it.

2. What i gather from the picture is that, first people on SPP, the construction will be linked to payments, for example, if you have paid 80% of the monies then you don't pay any more unless the tower is 80% complete.
(another example, 30% - according to new RERA updates the construction has to be be 30% done as well..so payments and construction is linked)

3. People on LPP (really worrying) because noone knew how it works..worrying for me as well because i am on LPP, if we go by the above guideline then people on LPP would have not paid full monies even when , lets assume, Sep 2010 when the apartments are handed over, we would have paid around 55% approx , so the above guideline goes for a toss, how would our payment plans be linked to the construstion ? I could not get a clear answer..I was told to see the "head of trust account" on the 2nd floor, obviously , this guy seems very important and very busy so was told to make an appointment..i am leaving dubai on saturday and this guy apparently conducts an opn house every thursday of the week. I tried to tell them that it would be good to have an answer (particularly in the context of LPP) directly from him, chased him around and finally met some other guy face to face.
==========================================================
shocking news for LPP
==========================================================
This guy i met (RERA) official, i asked him my question. For all of you on LPP, my question was..!!

Q. If you link the payment plans to construction milestones (somene for example has paid 30% would not need to pay till the construction reaches 30% built)
It makes sense only for people on SPP, what about people on LPP because they would have only paid approx 55% even if the new deadline of Sep 2010 was assumed to be the handover?

I got very varied and strange replies, maybe either it was lack of understanding of english on his behalf or maybe it was what he really meant.

He told me to either stick with the RERA approved payment plan or the Developer approved payment plan, which for LPP holders means "keep paying" and forget about any delays in construction.

Go with the RERA approved payment plans (described above) , if we LPP guys go with this payment plan , what does this really mean? (for example - do we change our plans to SPP ? didin't make much sense to me and this guy started to look a bit annoyed because i won't go away without the right answer.

The thrid option was going to the RERA legal department and if i wan't happy then cancel the apartment.I did not have time to look into the procedures of this, how much would i get back if i cancelled etc, neither is this my intention but it's an option.

The 4th option was if i still wan't happy , go to the court.

==========================================================

In my opinion The RERA approved payment plans should also take into consideration people like us on LPP because we have paid approx 40% more for our properties, I think there should be some kind of calculation to find out how much have we paid in context to the oroginal plan and calculate the % payment this way, for us (LPP) to be linked on witht the RERA appproved plans..

So the crux of the matter is, it's all up in the air and RERA is ineffecient and all this "RERA approved Payment plan" is up in the air at the moment, What i described above is just my version of the story , hopefully this will be more clearer in a few months to come

Please post your comments people because this is getting worse now.

I think there is a big difference between the LPP and SPP. The SPP is between the buyer and the seller and as such forms part of the agreement. The LPP has a middle man, the financer who holds a seperate agreement not related to the purchase agreement. The financer will take security of the sales agreement and the completed apartment in order to offer the "loan" facility.

Kind of like building your own home. you could opt to pay the builder direct and in stages as the build progresses (eg; foundations/wall plate/wind and watertight/first fix/final handover) This being an example of short term payment plan. Or you could do a 15 year deal with a building society, they pay the builders SPP on your behalf and you pay them smaller increments over a longer period.

If the builder is delayed or walks off site you still have to make your building society payments as agreed with them. The mortgage bit comes into effect when the build is complete.

This is where Rera are struggling, they don't have any power to deal with finance company arrangements only with client/developer agreements.

^^ Cont'
I have read of problems with Amlak not paying Cayan and claiming the build is delayed. Possibly because the purchaser is refusing or can't pay the mortgage increments quoting the same defense:dunno:.

The result of this is Cayan issuing termination notices to the buyers as their agreement is being breached indirectly by the buyer. What can Rera do about this, nothing as there is a middle man involved.

A very good point TB. :)

So we on LPP are stuck in the middle with the middle man! Why cant SP just Friggin' start building this project and complete on time as per their new revised date then we wouldnt mind carrying on paying our installments, we all expected a year delay anyway as with nearly all Dubai projects. But if it takes longer then something needs to be done.

At the current speed on construction...it seems it will be past the Aug 2011 deadline.

Any latest construction (or lack of) photos welcome.

i think there a way you can talk RERA into backing you if you are on the LLP! in the "Lengthy Payment Plan Prepayment Table" in your contract, you can show to RERA that you have paid almost 30-40% of the original price excluding the 15 year interest! you will see there "Prepayment figure valid from" and "Prepayment figure valid to" and then the "balance to pre-pay"!

what you need to do is point the figure in the "balance to pre-pay" to prove to RERA that you have paid about 30-40% of the original price without the interest.

BTW, this was pointed to me by FWIW. I have a couple of LLP apartments in BC and have not tried this yet with RERA.

Does the LPP payments go into an escrow? Or does the financer pay to the escrow?

What I would want to know is how much has been commited to the project, maybe the financer has only paid in less than 30% and you have paid more in which case you have a case to stop paying the financer.

Bloody complicated stuff when you don't have sight of the paperwork:lol:

TB,

Not sure how it works for Botanica as I haven't bought there.

In other SG projects, the LPP goes into the escrow. There's no financier involved - the financier is effectively also the developer. You pay an increased price *to the developer* for the benefit of paying over a longer period.

The security is that as you are still paying for the property, you dont fully own it until you've paid in full.

I think what they might be doing is that on completion they cooperate with someone like Amlak to get paid by the bank and "white label" their loan product. It might be for this reason that on completion people in TP had to sign different agreements, it is now really the bank they are paying, not the developer.

Just a guess...

TB, i think they are all the same. i pay to escrow in BC.

as you said, it's very hard to figure out how SG did this 15 year plan financing without them disclosing more info, which is highly unlikely given their track record and how they operate!

but it seems that the financing they arranged for the LLP was not connected legally to the individual apartments. maybe they had private financing for the whole project and SG pays interest on (and maybe some profit sharing arrangement also!). they are not a public company with a public balance sheet so no one will know for sure.

for all we know, we paid about 30% more than the going rate at the time in BC in addition to the 7% interest. so overall, they got a really good deal.

as it stands right now and legally speaking, there is no third party involved between the developers/owners when it comes to individual apartments.

main contractor is there (General Construction Company), foundation works has been begun.

maybe would be similar as we saw at the Skyview Tower.

07/August/2009

Botanica

http://i30.tinypic.com/358q4d1.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/riw0et.jpg

07/August/2009

Botanica

http://i30.tinypic.com/25iwu2e.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/3585dl5.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/el31w4.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/1zpqpag.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/jl2dkx.jpg

Nice!

Crane base going in, that will look good to investors and Rera.

Thanks for all the feedback on the LPP, it is all a bit strange if the developer is the financer/ier.

Well done Imre, missed your previous post.

So it is not DCE, everyone can breathe a big sigh of relief:banana:

Hallelujah!

Great progress............on the flyover in front of GH.

Come on SP SG whatever you are nowadays, get a move on here. This is as bad as The Atlantic.

I think most would happily transfer to Atlantic:)

I am trying to find out who General Construction Company is and for the life of me cannot find any info on them - are they a new start-up? lord help us if they are! The only company I can find with that name is:
AL TAAMIR GENERAL CONSTRUCTION COMPANY L.L.C., Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

Not sure if this is the right one. Would really like to know which other project General Construction Co is involved in.

I am trying to find out who General Construction Company is and for the life of me cannot find any info on them - are they a new start-up? lord help us if they are! The only company I can find with that name is:
AL TAAMIR GENERAL CONSTRUCTION COMPANY L.L.C., Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

Not sure if this is the right one. Would really like to know which other project General Construction Co is involved in.

Company is actually called Gulf General Contracting

I am trying to find out who General Construction Company is and for the life of me cannot find any info on them - are they a new start-up? lord help us if they are! The only company I can find with that name is:
AL TAAMIR GENERAL CONSTRUCTION COMPANY L.L.C., Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

Not sure if this is the right one. Would really like to know which other project General Construction Co is involved in.

I think it is the same company doing Mazaya 3 Towers in JLT and the same one doing all Holiday Inn express hotels. I was told it is a part of Lootah group. but still better than ....

I think it is the same company doing Mazaya 3 Towers in JLT and the same one doing all Holiday Inn express hotels. I was told it is a part of Lootah group. but still better than ....

I think you are right. Judging of the progress of Al Mazaya Business Avenue GCC have to speed up a bit to match Select Schedule, as published here on the forum. But of course - Botanica is only one tower instead of three.


:master::master::master: if they top out before 01/01-2011

:banana:

Crane being erected today.

:banana:

If anyone has pictures of this would be great!

14/August/2009

Botanica

http://i29.tinypic.com/vzko4k.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2zr2tn9.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/2zhp5r8.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/wjhws5.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/1zqpsmu.jpg

Seems piling is underway here finally...

I thought piling should be done by now and foundation to start!!?? Im confused!

The first visit was just to complete the shoring piles. The current visit is the main foundation piles. Maybe another month to go:dunno:

I thought piling should be done by now and foundation to start!!?? Im confused!

Piling 100% completed i was checking with the engineer in charge there and he confirmed to me that piling contractor is out last month. this work is a shoring for the lift pit , part of the foundation, breaking the piles also started.

I think most would happily transfer to Atlantic:)

Botanica investors save yourself some stress. Your experience is very likely to be the same as the Point, the Torch and Bay Central that is
- True Blue will be negative all the way
- SG projects start late as the developer uses investors money to fund construction. This is just a fact
- because of the legal docs you have signed and the legal structures set up by the developer, in practice, there is not much you can do to pressure them. We have all tried but not achieved much. Save yourself all the "huffing and puffing" that many have been through before
- there will be one or two selfish individuals amongst you who will make a real nuisance of themselves on this forum and direct with SG in order to get a private deal for themselves. (Mackie and Mistermark are past masters at this.) Don't let their negative posts get you down. See their actions for what they are
- the project will complete but it will be late
- SG were new to developing and are expected to improve with experience. The Torch will be better than the Point, BC better than the Torch and Botanica better than BC. You'll be able to judge this for yourselves as time goes by
- SG are very poor at investor relations. Part of the reason is that they are developers and do not sell projects and therefore don't place high value in keeping investors happy. The other reason is cultural
- SP were the selling agents. Surprisely, despite the similarity of name, they have no legal connection with SG and are a separate business with different owners.

Skim through the threads on the Point, the Torch and Bay Central and you'll see the same pattern on all three.

I think though you will be pleased with the end result and the Marina is becoming the place to live in Dubai. :)

Botanica investors save yourself some stress. Your experience is very likely to be the same as the Point, the Torch and Bay Central that is
- True Blue will be negative all the way
- SG projects start late as the developer uses investors money to fund construction. This is just a fact
- because of the legal docs you have signed and the legal structures set up by the developer, in practice, there is not much you can do to pressure them. We have all tried but not achieved much. Save yourself all the "huffing and puffing" that many have been through before
- there will be one or two selfish individuals amongst you who will make a real nuisance of themselves on this forum and direct with SG in order to get a private deal for themselves. (Mackie and Mistermark are past masters at this.) Don't let their negative posts get you down. See their actions for what they are
- the project will complete but it will be late
- SG were new to developing and are expected to improve with experience. The Torch will be better than the Point, BC better than the Torch and Botanica better than BC. You'll be able to judge this for yourselves as time goes by
- SG are very poor at investor relations. Part of the reason is that they are developers and do not sell projects and therefore don't place high value in keeping investors happy. The other reason is cultural
- SP were the selling agents. Surprisely, despite the similarity of name, they have no legal connection with SG and are a separate business with different owners.

Skim through the threads on the Point, the Torch and Bay Central and you'll see the same pattern on all three.

I think though you will be pleased with the end result and the Marina is becoming the place to live in Dubai. :)

^^An example of someone who claims to know everything but actually knows nothing other than being a Select Group ass kisser.

"SG projects start late as the developer uses investors money to fund construction. This is just a fact"

^^WTF, how long did it take you to come up with that pearl of wisdom:nuts: So they need 90% upfront before they can build anything.:ohno:

Select property agents, you are sooooo exposed.

^^
^^WTF, how long did it take you to come up with that pearl of wisdom:nuts: So they need 90% upfront before they can build anything.:ohno:

as they have done on all the other 3 projects, SG keep collection ahead of expenditure eg BC both towers up to 10/12 floors but nobody has paid more than 70% yet. Clearly it is better that payments are in line with progress but that is unfortunately not what we signed up for

not a SP or SG fan but just report the facts

TB is a well known sour puss. As I said just skim the posts on the Point, Torch and BC for all the info you need to make up your own mind on him and all the other issues. Just trying to save you a lot of anguish by pointing you in the right direction

not a SP or SG fan but just report the facts



Not a fan, just an agent :)

So of late we have Arse Licker, Arse Kisser and Sour Puss......... Maybe there is more going on in Manchester than I thought, lets head north Rodney.

I agree people didn't sign up for stage payments but they did sign up to what they thought was a fairly genuine completion date, not a scam.

Botanica investors save yourself some stress. Your experience is very likely to be the same as the Point, the Torch and Bay Central that is
- the project will complete but it will be late
- SG were new to developing and are expected to improve with experience. The Torch will be better than the Point, BC better than the Torch and Botanica better than BC. You'll be able to judge this for yourselves as time goes by
- SG are very poor at investor relations. Part of the reason is that they are developers and do not sell projects and therefore don't place high value in keeping investors happy. The other reason is cultural
- SP were the selling agents. Surprisely, despite the similarity of name, they have no legal connection with SG and are a separate business with different owners.

Skim through the threads on the Point, the Torch and Bay Central and you'll see the same pattern on all three.

I think though you will be pleased with the end result and the Marina is becoming the place to live in Dubai. :)

Absolutely agree with you slowhand99 on the above highlighted points! So if Select get better with every project, Botanica will be "saved the best til last" development...Perhaps worth the wait? :cheers:

WOW A CRANE IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE PROGRESS WHO ARE THEY KIDDING!!!!:ohno:

Any latest pics at the site anyone? It would be good to see what they are actually doing now!

http://i32.tinypic.com/30woxmb.jpg

Paul perhaps TB can give you an idea from the following pics of what is going on.

http://i30.tinypic.com/33f8i0o.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/1492iir.jpg