OMG I'm there!

Quote from ESPN...

"Jan. 1: Penguins at Sabres. In all likelihood, this tilt will be contested outdoors at Ralph Wilson Stadium. According to a league source, the deal with the venue hasn't yet been finalized. The same source is convinced, however, that an agreement will be struck and the game will be played outdoors on New Year's Day as first reported by ESPN.com last month during the Stanley Cup finals. The Pens-Sabres game will be televised in the U.S. by NBC, which pushed to play the game on New Year's Day. If the event is finalized, it will be the league's second venture into the great outdoors. Montreal visited frigid Edmonton for the Heritage Classic in November 2003. That game drew a crowd of 57,167 despite below-zero temperatures at Commonwealth Stadium."

Ralph Wilson Stadium seats 76,000.
I cannot wait!

Video of the mock up of the rink...If sold out (and it likely will be) it will be the largest crowd to ever watch a hockey game.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vBtJlCeRFXw

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/ryanmcell/puck.jpg

wasn't there are huge crowd at Michigan St?

wasn't there are huge crowd at Michigan St?

74,544

The Ralph's capacity is actually 74,000, damn, I thought it was 76,000. Well, Michigan State overfilled their stadium to 103%, so can we.

With all the space left around the rink I'm sure they could put up some temporary seating if needed.

This kind of thing could actually be designed into field-format stadiums in future. There's been a lot of talk about turning football grounds into athletics venues by adding a raised platform (thus reducing capacity), but it's just occurred to me that the opposite is true, too:

Simply take away the pitch (like in the Veltins Arena, Gelsenkircken) and beneath the pitch level, the stand incline continues downwards to a smaller area on which basketball, ice hockey, tennis or boxing could all take place. The best part is that it would actually raise capacity for instances such as this

...\
.....\
.......\
.........\....................../...... - Field-level, removable pitch
...........\___________/ - Underground 'crucible' - may require temporary seating.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm surprised that no-one's done this yet.

The Netherlands once played for the Davis Cup at Arnhem's Gelredome. They only used a small part of the main stand though and erected temporary seating at pitch level:

http://www.mytennis.ch/daviscup/upload//images/bildgalerie/03_NED-SUI_Bild6_1.jpg

Can't find better pictures than this one.

This game will be incredible. I can't wait when we host this game in NYC in 2009 at Yankee Stadium. Rangers vs Islanders or Rangers vs Boston.

The Netherlands once played for the Davis Cup at Arnhem's Gelredome. They only used a small part of the main stand though and erected temporary seating at pitch level:


I've seen a few similar examples on here, like a similar arrangement for tennis in the Seville athletics stadium and also numerous basketball matches in the USA.

Going back to my earlier post, I see the new UA Stadium in Phoenix has a retractable pitch. I wonder if they designed in a sub-floor?

It's official, tickets go on sale tomorrow at 10am, I have my credit card ready.

http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=337526

Just remember folks Edmonton did it first! Hosting Montreal in front of 60,000+ at Commonwealth Stadium. A very cold day but it was a beauty!

This kind of thing could actually be designed into field-format stadiums in future. There's been a lot of talk about turning football grounds into athletics venues by adding a raised platform (thus reducing capacity), but it's just occurred to me that the opposite is true, too:

Simply take away the pitch (like in the Veltins Arena, Gelsenkircken) and beneath the pitch level, the stand incline continues downwards to a smaller area on which basketball, ice hockey, tennis or boxing could all take place. The best part is that it would actually raise capacity for instances such as this

...\
.....\
.......\
.........\....................../...... - Field-level, removable pitch
...........\___________/ - Underground 'crucible' - may require temporary seating.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm surprised that no-one's done this yet.

I think the answer is pretty simple. For a lot of those sports events, either there isn't a need for such a large crowd, or the sightlines become horrible.

Section 335, row 19 :) I'm in! My view will be something like this, but more towards center ice...

http://cdn.nhl.com/images/upload/2007/09/frozen_inside_outdoor_game_.jpg

^^ Thats awesome! And I'm not a huge hockey fan (Its hard to be in Chicago :ohno: )

Game sold out in 40 minutes, it would have been half that but Ticketmaster's website crashed and was down for awhile.

Damn, I just crunched some numbers, even with this game the Sabres can't lead the league in attendence. They will sell out every game of course, but so will Montreal.

Bell Centre = 21,273 x 41 = 872,193
HSBC Arena = 18,690 x 40 = 747,600 + 75,000 = 822,600

Just a couple hundred extra tickets and we could pass Detroit (Joe Louis Arena = 20,066) for 2nd place.

This has got to be the stupidest idea I've seen yet from the NHL.

Sure, an outdoor NHL game is a good idea...but on NEW YEAR'S DAY? Bowl games, anyone? They might fill the stadium, but no one outside of Canada and Buffalo will be watching this with all the football games on. Why not have it in the week before the Super Bowl?

people will watch

people will watch

NBC doesn't have a bowl game to broadcast, so they gotta broadcast something :)

Section 335, row 19 :) I'm in! My view will be something like this, but more towards center ice...

http://cdn.nhl.com/images/upload/2007/09/frozen_inside_outdoor_game_.jpg

:drool:

This has got to be the stupidest idea I've seen yet from the NHL.

Sure, an outdoor NHL game is a good idea...but on NEW YEAR'S DAY? Bowl games, anyone? They might fill the stadium, but no one outside of Canada and Buffalo will be watching this with all the football games on. Why not have it in the week before the Super Bowl?

There's too many stupid-bowl games anymore. Does anyone really care who wins the papajohns.com bowl? They tend to cheapen the bowl games that are important.

However, your idea to have it the week before the Super Bowl sounds more ideal. I will watch the NHL game Jan. 1 only because I'm from Pittsburgh.

I think the answer is pretty simple. For a lot of those sports events, either there isn't a need for such a large crowd, or the sightlines become horrible.

Granted there may not be the ongoing need if we're only talking about one-off games but the sightline argument just doesn't stand up. If it continued the rake of the permanent seating, there would be no impact. Row 1 just becomes essentially row 21 (or whatever).

Unlike the render of RW in hockey mode, which does present sightline problems.

^^ Thats awesome! And I'm not a huge hockey fan (Its hard to be in Chicago :ohno: )

Don't confuse not liking hockey with hating Bill Wirtz.
The two are seperate issues.

i love that rendering...and i love the fact that they aren't erecting temporary bleachers anywhere..unlike what they did in edmonton.

so wish i could go...almost considered it, but kinda forgot about tickets going on sale. I live just over an hour from Buffalo, so it would have been possible.

Which is the time for face-off? Suitable for Europe? (which probably cares more about hockey than bowl games ;) )

This kind of thing could actually be designed into field-format stadiums in future. There's been a lot of talk about turning football grounds into athletics venues by adding a raised platform (thus reducing capacity), but it's just occurred to me that the opposite is true, too:

Simply take away the pitch (like in the Veltins Arena, Gelsenkircken) and beneath the pitch level, the stand incline continues downwards to a smaller area on which basketball, ice hockey, tennis or boxing could all take place. The best part is that it would actually raise capacity for instances such as this

...\
.....\
.......\
.........\....................../...... - Field-level, removable pitch
...........\___________/ - Underground 'crucible' - may require temporary seating.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm surprised that no-one's done this yet.

I'm supprized we've never actually seen a stadium with this kind of ability consider there are a number of events that would benefit from such a seating arrangement and are capable of drawing large crowds in the US espeically(ice hockey, basketball, boxing, MMA, pro wrestling etc).

The only problem I could see is that by dropping the surface of play you might effect the sight lines higher up the stadium, still even a very slight incline to the "crucible" area would make alot of difference.

^^ ^^ http://wiki.theppn.org/Saitama_Super_Arena

Saitama arena is kinda like that,just not exactly the way you described it.

Which is the time for face-off? Suitable for Europe? (which probably cares more about hockey than bowl games ;) )

I'm pretty sure it's 1pm, but not positive.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7c/BuffaloBills_1000.png/100px-BuffaloBills_1000.png
Buffalo Bills




I went last night, it was a complete disaster, my team got slaughtered. But here are some pictures anyway...

Who was it on this board that said American fans don't stand? Well here is proof to the contrary, we were losing 28-7 at this point, yet we were still standing...
http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/BillsPats31.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/BillsPats07.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/BillsPats38.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/BillsPats29.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/BillsPats30.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/BillsPats33.jpg

Big ass panorama
http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/RalphPan1.jpg

Lokks like you've got a pretty good seat.

I guess the Rochester Bills aren't doing so well this year... Nice pics though!

Was a hell of a beating last night!

Very nice stadium though, what are they gonna use it for when they relocate to toronto?! j/k!

I guess the Rochester Bills aren't doing so well this year... Nice pics though!

Well actually, they are doing better than expected, they are 5-5 and still have an excellent shot at the playoffs. It's just that the Patriots are better, and the Bills had an off game. Plus they were missing their starting RB.

Ill be there dec. 23rd... hopefully with better results

Considering that most would probably label it as one of the worst stadiums in the NFL, it's pretty nice. Much more the kind that I like, over beasts like Reliant and the new Cowboys field.

Someone's going to dismantle Brady one of these runaway games. If I was the defense, I wouldn't stop until he's eating through a straw for the next week.

Considering that most would probably label it as one of the worst stadiums in the NFL, it's pretty nice. Much more the kind that I like, over beasts like Reliant and the new Cowboys field.

Someone's going to dismantle Brady one of these runaway games. If I was the defense, I wouldn't stop until he's eating through a straw for the next week.

It's been called one of the best in the NFL by many despite it's age, I've never heard anyone clump it in with the worst.

http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/afc/RalphWilsonStadium.htm

Rink is being set up now...
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j167/nappy1380/rink1.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j167/nappy1380/rink3.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/sabresrsick123/icebowlsix.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/sabresrsick123/icebowlfour.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/sabresrsick123/icebowlfive.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/sabresrsick123/icebowlseven.jpg

Time Lapse Video http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=347673

my girlfriend has a ticket...rumor around here is that tickets are going for about $300 and thats pretty crazy considering there are like 70,000 seats.

Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Toronto...all hockey towns and IMO 140,000 seats could be sold. lol

gonna be a cool game to see

Aren't they doing this for publicity?? that's what I heard somewhere, they're trying to draw more fans to the NHL, so they took this as a desperate measure.. I read that somewhere on espn a few weeks ago.

http://cdn.nhl.com/images/upload/2007/09/frozen_inside_outdoor_game_.jpg

^^ That looks pretty cool btw.

I'm supprized we've never actually seen a stadium with this kind of ability consider there are a number of events that would benefit from such a seating arrangement and are capable of drawing large crowds in the US espeically(ice hockey, basketball, boxing, MMA, pro wrestling etc).

The only problem I could see is that by dropping the surface of play you might effect the sight lines higher up the stadium, still even a very slight incline to the "crucible" area would make alot of difference.

Lucas Oil is designed to have a lower basketball floor than the football field. Hopefully they get it right.

http://www.footballstadiumdigest.com/images/new_colts/new_colts_7.jpg

to

http://www.footballstadiumdigest.com/images/new_colts/new_colts_10.jpg

I kind of like the whole idea of constructing these "hybrid" arenas/stadiums. You can do a lot.

It's a cool concept, but have you tried watching sports in these multi-sport stadiums? It sucks. The sight lines are awful and the entire atmosphere of the event is greatly diminished. Watching football in a baseball stadium? No thanks. Ice-hockey in a football stadium? You won't be able to see a bloody thing.

It's great on television and ticket revenue, but not much else.

Yeah, and i've heard they may start playing basketball games in covered stadiums, which in my opinion is just weird, but hey.

They already do. Think about the Georgia Dome, or the Carrier Dome.

Oh wow. didn't know that.

Yeah, and i've heard they may start playing basketball games in covered stadiums, which in my opinion is just weird, but hey.

They already do. Think about the Georgia Dome, or the Carrier Dome.

Oh wow. didn't know that.

lol

^^ Lmao... thx buddy

Aren't they doing this for publicity?? that's what I heard somewhere, they're trying to draw more fans to the NHL, so they took this as a desperate measure.. I read that somewhere on espn a few weeks ago.

ummm... duh....

The rink is finished, I pity anyone who bought tickets in the 100 level and paid 2-3 times what I paid for 300 level. They won't be able to see crap, while I will have a perfect view :)...
http://media.buffalonews.com/smedia/2007/12/30/07/372-bn-20071230-B001-partytimeatther-43892-MI0001.standalone.prod_affiliate.50.jpg

Im going!!!

my friend is going too. driving from NJ for the game.

They already do. Think about the Georgia Dome, or the Carrier Dome.

What's the capacity for Basketball in this stadiums?

What's the capacity for Basketball in this stadiums?

Carrier Dome - 33,000
Georgia Dome - (usually) 40,000

It's 34 degrees, a little windy, a little snowy, and I'm off to the game! I'll be posting lots of pics and a few vids when I get back, I only live 5 miles from the stadium so I should be back an hour after the game :)

very nice stadium!!

great game, snow was falling and they had to consider the wind and temps.

was very "back yard" hockey and with 70,000+ fans, it sure looked wild.

:)

I'm back, it was amazing despite the Sabres losing in the shootout,

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl06.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl09.jpg

Perfect seats! Great view.
http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl24.jpg

I thought of SSC when I took this one...
http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl28.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl29.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl32.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl34.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl43.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl44.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl45.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl46.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl47.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl48.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl49.jpg

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl62.jpg

great pics!

Yeah nice pics.
What did a ticket cost? More or less than a normal NHL game?

Yeah nice pics.
What did a ticket cost? More or less than a normal NHL game?

About the same, they ranged from $29 to $90, regular game at HSBC is $20-$203 with most of the non-sold out sections going for $20-$100 (the pricier seats are mostly club seats)

What was the attendance?

What was the attendance?

71,217. Actual gate attendance. (NFL stadiums always count this way, NHL counts tickets sold, I don't know that number, 73,000 maybe)

Awesome pics! Thanks so much for sharing! I'm envious...

as a huge hockey fan, i believe this is the start of a major rebound of the NHL in the american markets.

apparently it drew the largest TV audience for a regular season game in over 10 years....thats awesome.

Awesome pics man! I wish I was there! There is talk of Toronto, Detroit, Montreal, and Boston doing the same in the coming years!

Awesome pics man! I wish I was there! There is talk of Toronto, Detroit, Montreal, and Boston doing the same in the coming years!

There is also talk of Flyers/Penguins in State College, Pennsylvania. Beaver Stadium, which is where Penn State plays, holds around 110,000. I would go to that game if it ever happened.

Awesome pics man! I wish I was there! There is talk of Toronto, Detroit, Montreal, and Boston doing the same in the coming years!

SkyDome? Olympic stadium?

SkyDome? Olympic stadium?

For Toronto, it would actually be in the new BMO Field used for the Toronto FC. Since Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment own the team and stadium, there is no way they would dish out money to Rogers so that they could use the SkyDome (now called Rogers Centre).

In Montreal, I read it would be wither held at McGill Stadium where the Allouettes play football or in the Olympic Stadium.

McGill University's football stadium is called Molson Stadium not McGill Stadium. BMO Field? I can see them wanting to use their own facility, but it would accommodate basically the same number of fans as the Air Canada Centre. It would be outside, but wouldn't come close to meeting ticket demand. The Skydome would make more sense regardless of the owner's petty egos.

Plus, the seats at BMO don't rise up very high. The sightlines would be terrible.

Wow, it looks like it was amazing!

Flyers-Penguins in State College makes me salivate. This allows for some fantastic hypothtical-izing. What do you guys think about:

Red Wings-Blackhawks @Soldier Field or the Big House in Ann Arbor

Bruins-Rangers/Habs @Gillette Stadium/Giants Field

Rangers-Devils/Islanders @Giants Stadium

Avalanche-Canucks @Invesco Field

Oilers-Flames @Centennial Stadium

and, of course:

Leafs-Sens/Habs @Skydome

Does anyone else think that if the Vikings get a new outdoor stadium it would actually be allow for the perfect game (Wild-Dallas Stars)?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1039/1363070504_2a461ca9c0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2053/2131528953_71d51865bc_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2163/1515285796_389cf00f7e_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2036/2100523918_8cc0404af2_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/2100523152_db01a35836_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2247274313_30f16756dc_b.jpg

Where did you find those pics Sercan? They make our old girl look not too bad for being 38 years old.

Here is a video I took from the game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVMoj4wfLlA

I have another of the national anthem from the IceBowl, I'll post that in a bit

...Now I remember why I didn't post the anthem before, they had Ronan Tynan sing God Bless America instead....Which is NOT our national anthem. I was not happy about that.

Where did you find those pics Sercan? They make our old girl look not too bad for being 38 years old.

Here is a video I took from the game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVMoj4wfLlA

I have another of the national anthem from the IceBowl, I'll post that in a bit

Flickr :)

Here...Note: I'm not singing, it's the dude next to me. I hate this stupid song with a passion. I should have recorded O'Canada instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZyKDQkGraQ

[IMG]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3830/ralph20wilsonbk2.jpg[/IMG

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3830/ralph20wilsonbk2.jpg

It should work like this. :cheers:

I can't believe this stadium's capacity used to be 80,020. Does anyone have any pictures of what it used to look like then?

I hear the Bills might be thinking about a new stadium.

I hear the Bills might be thinking about a new stadium.

Yeah, in Canada.

I feel bad for Bills fans having home games in Toronto.

Yeah, in Canada.

I feel bad for Bills fans having home games in Toronto.

NO TAILGATING?!

AW
HELL
NAW!!!!

I hear the Bills might be thinking about a new stadium.

I have not heard that, and judging by the amount of money just put it into this one, and the local economy, I highly doubt it.

I can't believe this stadium's capacity used to be 80,020. Does anyone have any pictures of what it used to look like then?

Old skool yo! And 80,020 was the original capacity, in this pic it was 80,290.

I think if I squint...I may have been at that game.

http://www.bobbundy.com/Auctions34/034NyBuffalo1.jpg

if pic doesn't work
http://www.bobbundy.com/Auctions34/034NyBuffalo1.jpg

Still smiling, the fans almost took the posts down today...

http://www.patriotsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pats1.jpg
http://www.patriotsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pats1.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2011/09/25/Bills-break-15-game-losing-streak-to-Patriots-A6DSK8V-x-large.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2011/09/25/Bills-break-15-game-losing-streak-to-Patriots-A6DSK8V-x-large.jpg

Still smiling, the fans almost took the posts down today...

http://www.patriotsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pats1.jpg
http://www.patriotsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pats1.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2011/09/25/Bills-break-15-game-losing-streak-to-Patriots-A6DSK8V-x-large.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2011/09/25/Bills-break-15-game-losing-streak-to-Patriots-A6DSK8V-x-large.jpg

I'm happy for the Bills fans, that was a great game and I'm always happy to see the Pats lose. I went to the Jaguars game at the stadium last year and I have to say it's probably one of my favorite stadiums in the league. The environment and the fans though were a different story.

I'm happy for the Bills fans, that was a great game and I'm always happy to see the Pats lose. I went to the Jaguars game at the stadium last year and I have to say it's probably one of my favorite stadiums in the league. The environment and the fans though were a different story.

It is not a welcoming, friendly place for opposing fans, I'm sorry to say.

It is not a welcoming, friendly place for opposing fans, I'm sorry to say.
Arent too many venues in NFl that is.

Love to see the Bills wear the throwback uniforms more often.

Love to see the Bills wear the throwback uniforms more often.

Those are their regular uniforms now so you'll be seeing them all the time. Complete set change this season.

No fans stormed the field in victory? Mehh....

What are the odds the Bills leave Buffalo for Los Angeles?

What are the odds the Bills leave Buffalo for Los Angeles?
Give up a stadium that they are the sole tenant, some of the most passionate fans in football, and a share of ownership, just to take a chance in LA? More than a thousand to one.

Additionally, Ralph Wilson (the owner) is 92, and just slightly set in his ways. He was one of two owners (along with Mike Brown of Cincinnati) who voted against the recent CBA, saying it gave too much to the players.

What are the odds the Bills leave Buffalo for Los Angeles?

It's out there as a possibility but there's weaker prey for the consortium in LA. Jacksonville seems a likelier target.

Those are their regular uniforms now so you'll be seeing them all the time. Complete set change this season.

Sweet! OJ style

What are the odds the Bills leave Buffalo for Los Angeles?

None to never...


Chargers, Raiders, Vikings, Jaguars, and Rams all have way more of a shot.

It's out there as a possibility but there's weaker prey for the consortium in LA. Jacksonville seems a likelier target.

That and Buffalo is one of those teams that has a good national following. They were the best team in the AFC for the better part of the 1990's and like Pittsburgh fans, many people who grew up in upstate New York have moved to other parts of the country and pay to go to see them on the road and buy the NFL Sunday Ticket. Even though that money doesn't go directly in the Bills' pocket, it does increase the overall revenue of the league. While a team's history and that portion of the revenue stream might not be enough to keep a team from moving, there are other teams that don't have that and don't have decent stadiums that I believe are more likely to relocated to LA.

It's out there as a possibility but there's weaker prey for the consortium in LA. Jacksonville seems a likelier target.

Its funny because I'd say the Chargers & Vikings are probably likelier targets logistically with crumbling stadiums/leases and no clear plans for new stadiums. But of course Jacksonville always gets brought up as a target even though we've been selling out the past year and have a great stadium/lease situation. Our owner has also reiterated his resolve to keep the Jags in Jacksonville time and time again. The idea of the Jags as being a prime candidate for relocation is a crock cooked up by the national media.

What are the odds the Bills leave Buffalo for Los Angeles?

There is already an ownership group in place to take over. There are actually two, and they will be competing. Both of them intend to keep the team where it is.

No fans stormed the field in victory? Mehh....

Yeah, they did but not many. It's not like they clinched the division or anything.

Its funny because I'd say the Chargers & Vikings are probably likelier targets logistically with crumbling stadiums/leases and no clear plans for new stadiums. But of course Jacksonville always gets brought up as a target even though we've been selling out the past year and have a great stadium/lease situation. Our owner has also reiterated his resolve to keep the Jags in Jacksonville time and time again. The idea of the Jags as being a prime candidate for relocation is a crock cooked up by the national media.
Funny you should say that. Both San Diego and the Twin Cities area are working hard, and making some progress on new stadiums, so the chances of them moving are diminished somewhat. Which means the 'crocks' are not so much the national media, as dueling local ones.

Its funny because I'd say the Chargers & Vikings are probably likelier targets logistically with crumbling stadiums/leases and no clear plans for new stadiums. But of course Jacksonville always gets brought up as a target even though we've been selling out the past year and have a great stadium/lease situation. Our owner has also reiterated his resolve to keep the Jags in Jacksonville time and time again. The idea of the Jags as being a prime candidate for relocation is a crock cooked up by the national media.

It's true.

I'd say the Jags are about 4th or 5th on the list.... There had been reports on ESPN this past August stating that the Chargers and Raiders were the frontrunners. Which makes more sense since Jacksonville's lease wont end for another decade and all three curent NFL stadiums in Cali are complete trash, worst in the League.

I'll be at this stadium this Sunday when the Eagles come to town! I'm looking forward to seeing one of the few old stadiums in the league.

The Ralph is going to be getting a significant upgrade, it's still very early in the planning but they are talking about new concourses and exterior

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article601613.ece

The Ralph is going to be getting a significant upgrade, it's still very early in the planning but they are talking about new concourses and exterior

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article601613.ece

Very much needed, I'd say. I actually love the bowl design and how close it is to the field and what not, but from the outside it looked like a college stadium. (& actually there are plenty of college stadiums that look way better aesthetically than Ralph Wilson)

Erm, any pics of the current concourses? Oh, is there a need to increase the current capacity?

Good. Keep 'em in Buffalo.

Very much needed, I'd say. I actually love the bowl design and how close it is to the field and what not, but from the outside it looked like a college stadium. (& actually there are plenty of college stadiums that look way better aesthetically than Ralph Wilson)

Yes, nothing wrong with the bowl, other than I think the new suites between the lower bowl and club level look tacked on, I always thought they should just ripo out the upper decks, and the club level, rebuild those closer to the field and enclose all the concourses. The stadium is mostly underground, the only thing visible from street level are the upper decks. All the concourses except those that run directly under the upper deck are out in the open. So maybe they will enclose them? Who knows, I'll post renders as soon as they are made available.

Erm, any pics of the current concourses? Oh, is there a need to increase the current capacity?

There is no need to increase capacity, it's already one of the largest in the NFL. It was reduced when the lower bowl benches were replaced with seats and the lower bowl suites added. I expect if they replace all the rest of the original 1972 benches with seats capacity will be further reduced, maybe to 70,000? I can't find any decent ones online, never bothered to take pics of them while there either. Under the upper deck they are typical of 1970's stadiums, kinda narrow, not too bad, in the ends they are paved pathways outside, they ramp down from street level to the top of the lower bowl. Actually I do have a pic that shows what they are like in the ends, I took this during the Winter Classic...

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl29.jpg

This is all you can see from street level, the upper decks and the enzone suites and clubs. Back in the 80's and early 90's it was just the upper decks and the scoreboard. I expect all of this will be enclosed, maybe something similar to Lambeau Field's upgrade?

http://www.emkayusa.com/misc/icebowl06.jpg

That's really interesting. It looks nothing like a typical gigantic NFL stadium from the parking lots.

Latest news, Bills are open to the new lease tying the team to Buffalo. But they are looking for "significant" improvements. Populous is evaluating the current stadium now, maybe this will turn into a new stadium instead of a rebuild! I mean rebuilding the current one makes a lot of sense of course, it's a great stadium, but isn't our love for stadiums the reason we all are in this part of SSC? Nothing better than watching a new one get built.

http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article612849.ece

Overhead shot, from today, and hour before the Bills got waxed. Taken by my wife, from my plane.

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/eMKayBFLO/Flying/IMG_1553.jpg

Interesting idea

http://www.buffalorising.com/2012/03/a-stadium-improvement-plan-that-puts-a-buffalo-flavor-on-premium-seats.html

Populous has proposed 3 different options, a new stadium ($800,000,000 and up) A "retrofit" similar to what Kansas City did for $450,000,000 to $500,000,000. And a renovation for a minimum of $200,000,000. The Bills are leaning toward the cheapest option because the other two options would mean raising ticket prices and being forced to sell PSL's, the team does not want to do that. There are no pictures or renders yet but there won't be many inside changes as Populous has agreed The Ralph has the best sightlines in the NFL. So the renovation will be structural, and mostly outside.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article811352.ece

It's a shame that the mid-range option appears to be off the table, as well. I can envision where a major reworking of everything but the main bowl and the upper tiers could yield a tremendous venue. And would likely stand up for a long-time. Hopefully the investments made with the low-end option prove worth while, because Buffalo indeed has some great fans.

Also, after reading that article, what's up with this need to "see" the game while fetching burgers and Cokes? It's not like you can truly see the field from the concession stand and there are TV's a plenty in most venues anyway, so why take away space that can go towards more seating and to trap sound rather than open it up so people can see the bowl while standing in line?

It's a shame that the mid-range option appears to be off the table, as well. I can envision where a major reworking of everything but the main bowl and the upper tiers could yield a tremendous venue. And would likely stand up for a long-time. Hopefully the investments made with the low-end option prove worth while, because Buffalo indeed has some great fans.

Also, after reading that article, what's up with this need to "see" the game while fetching burgers and Cokes? It's not like you can truly see the field from the concession stand and there are TV's a plenty in most venues anyway, so why take away space that can go towards more seating and to trap sound rather than open it up so people can see the bowl while standing in line?

Yeah I agree, a renovation like at Arrowhead and Lambeau would have been awesome, but they haven't agreed on anything yet, we'll see.

As for the open concourse idea, it's cool and the latest trend, but retrofitting it into an existing stadium? Overkill IMHO

Check this out...

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Fan-shows-ultimate-devotion-one-Lego-at-a-time/7863e26e-c47e-43d4-8821-80c185a38686

Nice lego project!

Check this out...

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Fan-shows-ultimate-devotion-one-Lego-at-a-time/7863e26e-c47e-43d4-8821-80c185a38686

That's really good..... but when are they gonna do this renovation?

The team and county are negotiating that right now, as part of the lease. The lease will be done by the end of the season, I don't know for sure when construction will start, but I would assume after the end of this coming season.

Yeah, I dunno about this, we'll see tomorrow. If it's legit I'll start a thread in Proposed.

http://buffalo.ynn.com/content/top_stories/606382/plans-for-proposed-downtown-buffalo-stadium-to-be-released-tuesday/

New thread for it:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1556852

There are a few holes, there was a major accident blocking one of the major highways leading to the stadium, it made my 8 minute commute home a 40 minute commute :ohno: Game was sold out

http://www.hergamelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/bills2.jpg



Credit :Christine King, local fan...

http://www.hergamelife.com/2012/11/bills-squish-the-fish/

Went today, crappy team in a small city but we still sell the place out and put up a great atmosphere.

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/eMKayBFLO/file-3.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/eMKayBFLO/file-2.jpg

I saw the stadium personally in 2001 and was kind of taken back at its location. It was weird seeing a big(ish) NFL stadium in the middle of a small suburban neighborhood.

I would say the same for Cowboys Stadium, but Orchard Park, NY and Arlington, TX are two different worlds, even for suburbs...

I saw the stadium personally in 2001 and was kind of taken back at its location. It was weird seeing a big(ish) NFL stadium in the middle of a small suburban neighborhood.

I would say the same for Cowboys Stadium, but Orchard Park, NY and Arlington, TX are two different worlds, even for suburbs...

Well it's not like it's in the middle of nowhere, it's only 4 miles from the city border (6 miles from my house which is in the city)

Well it's not like it's in the middle of nowhere, it's only 4 miles from the city border (6 miles from my house which is in the city)

I know.

But I think we both know that their are some major differences between the two.

I know.

But I think we both know that their are some major differences between the two.

Yeah, there is one difference, where it is access is super easy and there is plenty of parking. Wouldn't be the same if it were in the city.

Yeah, there is one difference, where it is access is super easy and there is plenty of parking. Wouldn't be the same if it were in the city.

And you also have a MLB park down the street with theme parks and and located in a sprawled out area sandwiched in between two major cities...

But you get the idea.

wasn't there are huge crowd at Michigan St
http://www.smallbusinessdevel.com/xiaowang1.jpg
http://www.smallbusinessdevel.com/xiaowang13.jpg
http://www.smallbusinessdevel.com/xiaowang14.jpg
http://www.smallbusinessdevel.com/xiaowang15.jpg

Can we get these damn spammers off this forum, please?

And you also have a MLB park down the street with theme parks and and located in a sprawled out area sandwiched in between two major cities...

But you get the idea.

Oh, sorry I thought you were comparing Orchard Park and Arlington to stadiums in cities, not to each other. There isn't much to the south and east but north and west is all metro area. If it were in the northern suburbs the comparison would be closer.

I don't think I posted this in this thread, but the team and county failed to come to terms on a long term lease, they agreed to a 1 year lease and continue to discuss renovation or replacement options. And with infrastructure improvements ongoing at the site of the proposed new stadium, things are looking up for a new stadium, but nobody is releasing anything, and Ralph is as usual, silent.

Oh, sorry I thought you were comparing Orchard Park and Arlington to stadiums in cities, not to each other. There isn't much to the south and east but north and west is all metro area. If it were in the northern suburbs the comparison would be closer.

I don't think I posted this in this thread, but the team and county failed to come to terms on a long term lease, they agreed to a 1 year lease and continue to discuss renovation or replacement options. And with infrastructure improvements ongoing at the site of the proposed new stadium, things are looking up for a new stadium, but nobody is releasing anything, and Ralph is as usual, silent.

I was wondering about that. I knew there was supposed to be some renovation, but when?

I was wondering about that. I knew there was supposed to be some renovation, but when?

Hopefully never, I'm hoping for a new stadium. I like the Ralph but a renovation would just be a patch job for another 10 years. Looking around the place yesterday and structurally it looks fine, but the concourses are cramped, the bathrooms are tiny, the beer selection is awful (there is good stuff around, but you have to find it).

The only good thing about it is the actual seating area, suites, and electronics, all that stuff has been redone, and the sightlines remain awesome from everywhere. The top of the upper deck is closer to the field than just about every stadium in the league, and they still managed to squeeze in 164 luxury suites (those all too, closer to the field than most stadiums) but the innards need redoing, and that is the plan with this renovation.

How much involvement do the rest of the Wilson family currently have with the Bills?

How much involvement do the rest of the Wilson family currently have with the Bills?

He has three daughters, two of which who worked for the team (one died in 2009) currently one daughter and a niece work for the team.

Bills agree to 10-year lease deal, keeping team here

State, county and team negotiators have struck a final deal a 10-year lease with a hefty relocation penalty if the Bills leave – to keep the Bills from delivering an economic and psychological blow to Western New York by shipping out to another city, officials with direct knowledge of the talks said this morning in an interview with The Buffalo News.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the deal would be announced at an 11 a.m. press conference at Ralph Wilson Stadium.

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo was scheduled to attend but was unable to fly from Albany because of weather conditions. County Executive Mark Poloncarz and Buffalo Bills executives will be at the press conference and Cuomo will be on speaker phone, officials said.

The deal comes after months of secret meetings between the sides over what officials have described as complex terms involving a team whose owner, Ralph Wilson, has made past commitments to stay in Buffalo but is getting old and has had health problems in the past year or so.

The terms of the deal last for 10 years.

The Bills would have to pay a $400 million relocation penalty if they leave during the time of the lease – with one exception. In the seventh year of the contract they could pull out with only a $29 million penalty.

The $400 million is more than the state has provided the team in incentives to remain going back to 1998 during the administration of Gov. George E. Pataki, who also cut his own agreement to keep the team from leaving.

The official with direct knowledge of the negotiations who briefed The Buffalo News on the agreement said $130 million will be spent on a range of renovations at the aging stadium. Of that, the Bills will kick in $35 million, which is different from past deals with the state that included no team contribution. The state and county will share the remaining $95 million renovation costs, though it is uncertain how much precisely will be coming from both government entities.

Word of the deal comes just days after The Buffalo News reported “significant’’ talks were held this past week between the state, county and team negotiators. Gone also, Poloncarz told The News earlier this week, was talk of maybe cutting a one-year deal to push off the complicated matters until next year.

At least with Bills fans, the deal will give Cuomo a major political victory in Western New York, which he did not carry in his first gubernatorial campaign two years ago. Cuomo said in an interview earlier this fall that keeping the team in Buffalo was a top priority for his administration, and he personally became involved in the negotiations on and off in recent months.

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121221/CITYANDREGION/121229867/1109

The full lease agreement will be finalized in the coming weeks. Via the official press release, here’s what we know it will include:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5861/screenshot20121221at120.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/screenshot20121221at120.png/)

http://blogs.democratandchronicle.com/voteup/2012/12/21/what-we-know-about-the-new-buffalo-bills-lease/

Awesome news, just awesome. The huge relocation penalty makes it easier for one of the two local groups wanting the team to buy the team, keeping the team here. Also the low amount of money being spent on the renovations opens the door for a new stadium at the end of the deal, a win win.

This proves the little guy can win. I'm so happy right now I have tears in my eyes

Awesome news, just awesome. The huge relocation penalty makes it easier for one of the two local groups wanting the team to buy the team, keeping the team here. Also the low amount of money being spent on the renovations opens the door for a new stadium at the end of the deal, a win win.

This proves the little guy can win. I'm so happy right now I have tears in my eyes

That's great news for you guys. Congrats!

:cheers:

Terrible news for the NFL. It has outgrown Buffalo. There is no small town team charm like there is for Green Bay Packers. Bills have to go. LA preferably.

^^ Pfft!

Populous to be awarded the refurb contract (well, the design part)?

Terrible news for the NFL. It has outgrown Buffalo. There is no small town team charm like there is for Green Bay Packers. Bills have to go. LA preferably.

Ugh. Troll.

Theres nothing trolling about it. Look at the facts. Buffalo contributes nothing to the league, not ticket sales, not TV ratings. definitely not merchandise sales.

Theres nothing trolling about it. Look at the facts. Buffalo contributes nothing to the league, not ticket sales, not TV ratings. definitely not merchandise sales.
Uh, no. Based on those wildly inflammatory and inaccurate statements, you are definitely a troll.

Terrible news for the NFL. It has outgrown Buffalo. There is no small town team charm like there is for Green Bay Packers. Bills have to go. LA preferably.

Sorry, but anyone who honestly thinks the Bills of all teams will go to L.A. needs their heads checked.

The Bills will upgrade their stadium and continue to be the only football team in New York...

Bills will never leave New York

Sorry, but anyone who honestly thinks the Bills of all teams will go to L.A. needs their heads checked.

The Bills will upgrade their stadium and continue to be the only football team in New York...
Should and will are two different things.

Goodell wants Bills to leave.

Word on the street is that the Bills will be bought up by James Kelly and Company very soon. This maybe part of Ralph's master plan:

1. Sign a lease to keep "my Bills" here
2. Extend my legacy by selling my team to Kelly and Co.
3. Allow Mary and my daughter to inherit my billion dollars

Idk this is all word on the street/speculation based on a T. Thomas tweet.

Should and will are two different things.

Goodell wants Bills to leave.

He also wants a team in England. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here...

He also wants a team in England. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here...

UK. But I don't want a team over here, cost to much money for me and other people outside of London to travel down to games. Most of the Fans of the NFL are from outside London btw :banana:

Theres nothing trolling about it. Look at the facts. Buffalo contributes nothing to the league, not ticket sales, not TV ratings. definitely not merchandise sales.

Ignorant, know nothing troll on top of it.

Should and will are two different things.

Goodell wants Bills to leave.

Wrong wrong wrong. He was instrumental in getting this deal done, ignorant troll.

Word on the street is that the Bills will be bought up by James Kelly and Company very soon. This maybe part of Ralph's master plan:

1. Sign a lease to keep "my Bills" here
2. Extend my legacy by selling my team to Kelly and Co.
3. Allow Mary and my daughter to inherit my billion dollars

Idk this is all word on the street/speculation based on a T. Thomas tweet.

It's more than word on the street. Can't really say more than that.

Wrong wrong wrong. He was instrumental in getting this deal done, ignorant troll.
Yea hes from Buffalo area, I heard.

I bet some other owners like Jerry Jones want to see Buffalo gone though.

Face the facts NFL is a business. They want to maximize profits.

Yea hes from Buffalo area, I heard.

I bet some other owners like Jerry Jones want to see Buffalo gone though.

Face the facts NFL is a business. They want to maximize profits.

Trust me, what goes on in Buffalo/Orchard Park, NY is the FURTHEST thing from Jerry's mind right now...

They certainly wouldnt mind it though. Buffalo doesnt bring enough to the plate when markets like LA is available.

They certainly wouldnt mind it though. Buffalo doesnt bring enough to the plate when markets like LA is available.

That's where you're dumb and the NFL is smart. The NFL doesn't want to move a team to that market and get no money from it. They want to have it open for one or two $1 billion dollar expansion fees. Goodell has stated that the NFL can go to 34 teams so that won't be a problem.

Yea hes from Buffalo area, I heard.
Nope, try again. Goodell was born in Jamestown, basically on the western edge of the Pennsylvania border, and grew up in Westchester County.

Total overhaul not in budget for stadium

Technology upgrades are highlight of $130 million plan

A new entrance plaza with a larger team store on Abbott Road. A stadium wired with fiber optics. Restrooms with live game sound. Updated suites, kitchens to prepare more food options, a second video scoreboard and an expanded concourse on the east end of the stadium.

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130105/CITYANDREGION/130109576/1010

That's where you're dumb and the NFL is smart. The NFL doesn't want to move a team to that market and get no money from it. They want to have it open for one or two $1 billion dollar expansion fees. Goodell has stated that the NFL can go to 34 teams so that won't be a problem.

Awesome, so does this mean that the only thing from stopping La from having 1-2 teams is someone coughing up the expansion fee, and that relocation isn't an issue?

If LA gets a team at no expense to the current teams, would that mean that the nfl would lack any other areas to expand in? In essence, would they reach maximum saturation?

Populous Selected for Renovations to Ralph Wilson Stadium

(Jan. 14, 2013) – The Buffalo Bills have selected Populous, a global sport and event architecture firm, to head up the renovation project at Ralph Wilson Stadium.

Today’s announcement follows the December 21 pronouncement by Governor Cuomo that the Bills, the State of New York and Erie County had reached a new ten-year lease agreement. The new lease agreement includes $130 million in upgrades to Ralph Wilson Stadium.

“We are looking forward to beginning work on the renovations to Ralph Wilson Stadium,” said Scott Radecic, Senior Principal at Populous and former Buffalo Bills linebacker. “The proposed changes will significantly enhance the fan experience and bring new energy into the historic building. The renovations will include the addition of quality amenities and improved technology that will ensure that Buffalo Bills’ fans have a memorable experience each and every game day.”

Improvements throughout the stadium will include, but not be limited to, the following:

Implementation of new technology throughout the building. This will include new video display boards in the east end of the stadium.

Creation of a new west end plaza, inclusive of a new team store and enhanced gate entries.

Renovated and expanded concessions and restrooms.

Training Facility renovation and expansion to enhance team player areas.

Bills President and CEO Russ Brandon said, “Populous has a strong reputation throughout the sports industry for their innovative and aggressive approach to stadium design and renovation. We are excited to work together on creating an enhanced, more fan-friendly facility that will add to the enjoyment of the fan’s game day experience at Ralph Wilson Stadium. “

Improvements to Ralph Wilson Stadium will be done in phases. The initial design phase has already begun, with some site and building improvements to be completed prior to the 2013 season. The majority of renovations will be completed the following year, 2014, with some renovations extending into the 2015 offseason.

With offices around the globe, Populous is a design and architecture firm that specializes in stadiums, ballparks, arenas and convention centers. The firm has worked with 30 NFL teams and more than 80 universities to design or renovate their football stadiums. Their work includes the University of Phoenix Stadium, the new Arrowhead Stadium, Heinz Field, Gillette Stadium, Reliant Stadium and TCF Bank Stadium.

http://populous.com/news/2013/01/14/populous-selected-for-renovations-to-ralph-wilson-stadium/

From the new stadium thread:

These renovations should tide us over until the new retractable roof waterfront stadium is completed. :) (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Populous-Selected-for-Renovations-to-Ralph-Wilson-Stadium/a90c0e16-3bb5-4c88-a489-6f6314b1dd85)

http://prod.images.bills.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/BILLS/assets/images/imported/BUF/photos/clubimages/2013/01-January/tempNew-Store-Exterior--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720

http://prod.images.bills.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/BILLS/assets/images/imported/BUF/photos/clubimages/2013/01-January/tempNew-Gate-Entry--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720

http://prod.images.bills.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/BILLS/assets/images/imported/BUF/photos/clubimages/2013/01-January/tempNew-100-Level-Concourse--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720

http://prod.images.bills.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/BILLS/assets/images/imported/BUF/photos/clubimages/2013/01-January/tempNew-East-End-Video-Boards--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720

http://prod.images.bills.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/BILLS/assets/images/imported/BUF/photos/clubimages/2013/01-January/tempNew-Store-Interior--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720

A plaza, more bathrooms, updated concourses, and moving the team store into the stadium itself. That would be great as the current one is out in the fieldhouse. That plaza building could always be part of a new stadium too if they build it right next to the old one, and if they put the new stadium on the waterfront I'm sure something can be done with the new building as well, the entire area the stadium sits now is just begging for development.

Beautiful morning, so I went for a flight, took this...

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/eMKayBFLO/file_zps86061159.jpg