Its that time of the year again - time of penis comparison threads;) Just kidding, lets keep it serious.


Бюджет Москвы-2008 увеличен до 1,169 трлн рублей
http://www.interfax.ru/r/B/moscow/36...issue=11892747

Moscow's budget for 2008 just got increased to 1,169 trillion rubles...that works out to about 32,361 billion EUR/48,1 billion USD:eek:

Since I'm moving to Moscow soon , I simply can't wait to see how they actually spend this money. In Belgrade, we could pay for ~30 subway/metro lines from a single year budget:nuts:

Bucharest general budget for 2007 is at 1.6 billion EURO. This is data from the official decision of the General Bucharest Council on the 2007 budget. That's about 800 EUR/city dweller.

Its that time of the year again - time of penis comparison threads;) Just kidding, lets keep it serious.




Moscow's budget for 2008 just got increased to 1,169 trillion rubles...that works out to about 32,361 billion EUR/48,1 billion USD:eek:

Since I'm moving to Moscow soon , I simply can't wait to see how they actually spend this money. In Belgrade, we could pay for ~30 subway/metro lines from a single year budget:nuts:

That's about 3.082 EUR/city dweller, if we assume that Moscow's population is about 10.5 million inhabitants. Is the budget data confirmed by official documents? It's quite huuuge.:cheers:

The budget of some romanian cities in 2007, TOP 10:

1. Bucharest: 8.5b RON

2. Cluj-Napoca: 739m RON

3, Timisoara : 643m RON

4. Constanta : 502m RON

5.,6.Iasi, Sibiu: 500m RON

7. Arad: 441m RON

8. Galati : 428m RON

9. Bacau : 400m RON

10. Brasov : 390m RON

1 EURO ~ 3.5 RON

We still are poor ! :bash: How about other EE cities ?

* I don`t have exact data concerning the populations of our cities ( Bucharest ~2m and the other cities ~150-300.000 ). BUT (http://www.capital.ro/articole/cele-mai-dinamice-orase-din-romania/105012)

Bucharest 1400 euro/capita

Other cities from top 10: 500-1000 Euro/capita

The budget of some romanian cities in 2007, TOP 10:

1. Bucharest: 8.5b RON

2. Cluj-Napoca: 739m RON

3, Timisoara : 643m RON

4. Constanta : 502m RON

5.,6.Iasi, Sibiu: 500m RON

7. Arad: 441m RON

8. Galati : 428m RON

9. Bacau : 400m RON

10. Brasov : 390m RON

1 EURO ~ 3.5 RON

We are still poor ! :bash: What about other EE cities ?

* I don`t have exact data concerning the populations of our cities ( Bucharest ~2m and the other cities ~150-300.000 ). BUT (http://www.capital.ro/articole/cele-mai-dinamice-orase-din-romania/105012)

Bucharest 1400 euro/capita

Other cities from top 10: 500-1000 Euro/capita


What? Brasov is below Galati and BAcau?:uh:. Are you sure the data is accurate? My info on Bucharest budget is from the City Council's decision on the budget for 2007 (amended one, and said it was about 6 billlion Ron, or about 1.6 billlion EUR).

^^
The data are taken form Capital ! If something is wrong then the guys from Capital aren`t serious ! :bash::lol:

Its that time of the year again - time of penis comparison threads;) Just kidding, lets keep it serious.




Moscow's budget for 2008 just got increased to 1,169 trillion rubles...that works out to about 32,361 billion EUR/48,1 billion USD:eek:

Since I'm moving to Moscow soon , I simply can't wait to see how they actually spend this money. In Belgrade, we could pay for ~30 subway/metro lines from a single year budget:nuts:

You always talk about Russia:)

The proposed Sofia 2008 budget is about BGN 800 mln ~ EUR 400 mln.

Its that time of the year again - time of penis comparison threads;) Just kidding, lets keep it serious.




Moscow's budget for 2008 just got increased to 1,169 trillion rubles...that works out to about 32,361 billion EUR/48,1 billion USD:eek:

Since I'm moving to Moscow soon , I simply can't wait to see how they actually spend this money. In Belgrade, we could pay for ~30 subway/metro lines from a single year budget:nuts:

Let me show you how they have been spent so far, and you can draw your own conclusions for next year.

moscow is officially the most expensive city in europe now, beating even london. quite frankly it's like a country of its own. i love it. :banana:


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/233/135pi4.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2905/971ebaef90zd5.jpg

landcruisers (not the prado, the real ones), porsches, audis, mercedes, pajeros, X5s.... to name a few..... etc. i would say that's about a bil right there of that budget.

Warsaw - 3,05 billion euro
Wrocław - 840 million euro
Kraków - 810 million euro
Łódź - 694 million euro
Poznań - 555 million euro
Gdańsk - 500 million euro

You always talk about Russia:)

^^ Умом Россию не понять… В Россию можно только верить! :D

Can you understand this sentence, hercegovac ? ^^

Some bulgarians used to feel some inexplicable faith in Russia ... but that was more than a century ago. I am glad we have matured at least in that aspect :)

Belgrade budget for 2007 was 64 billion RSD - that's a little more than 800 million euros

I see that Sofia will have lower budget comparing it to similar cities as size and population as Belgrade for instance...

In fact, I explain this to my self with the fact that the most big ass stuff which are on go projects, are payable by the national and the EU budgets. For example the Sofia International Airport reconstruction, the new highway ringroad construction, the Metro extensions and stuff..

That's about 3.082 EUR/city dweller, if we assume that Moscow's population is about 10.5 million inhabitants. Is the budget data confirmed by official documents? It's quite huuuge.:cheers:

2008 budget is not adopted yet. it's passed two listenings in moscow parliament. third will be final. then it will be signed by the mayor. it is expected that expenditures will be expanded.
in first listening it was 1155 bln. p. in second - 1165 bln p. moscow authorities expect to hit $70bln, overpassing new york by 2012.

history of moscow budget

expenditures
2003: $11bln
2004: $14bln
2005: $17bln
2006: $26bln
2007: planned to be $38bln
2008: planned to be $48bln+

It's unbelievable the budget of some of these cities.

Since I'm moving to Moscow soon , I simply can't wait to see how they actually spend this money.


You're welcome, mate! Would you like drink a glass of vodka with some Russian forumers sitting at Moskva River coast and watching the growth of Moscow skyline? :cheers:

The budget of some romanian cities in 2007, TOP 10:

1. Bucharest: 8.5b RON

2. Cluj-Napoca: 739m RON

3, Timisoara : 643m RON

4. Constanta : 502m RON

5.,6.Iasi, Sibiu: 500m RON

7. Arad: 441m RON

8. Galati : 428m RON

9. Bacau : 400m RON

10. Brasov : 390m RON

1 EURO ~ 3.5 RON

We still are poor ! :bash: How about other EE cities ?

* I don`t have exact data concerning the populations of our cities ( Bucharest ~2m and the other cities ~150-300.000 ). BUT (http://www.capital.ro/articole/cele-mai-dinamice-orase-din-romania/105012)

Bucharest 1400 euro/capita

Other cities from top 10: 500-1000 Euro/capita

If the rest of the numbers are OK, then in EURO would be the following:

Cluj-Napoca: 211 million EUR

3, Timisoara : 183 million EUR

4. Constanta : 143 million EUR

5.,6.Iasi, Sibiu: 142 million EUR

7. Arad: 126 million EUR

8. Galati : 122 million EUR

9. Bacau : 114 million EUR

10. Brasov : 111 million EUR

Tallinn budget will be around 500-600 mio eur.

You're welcome, mate! Would you like drink a glass of vodka with some Russian forumers sitting at Moskva River coast and watching the growth of Moscow skyline? :cheers:
Wait...does the skyline actually grow? :lol: Has Moscow become one with the Earth;)

Check if the American ICBMs are all in their silos and you'll find the answer.:lol:

OK I'll add few Croatian city budgets,

Zagreb - 7380 million kuna (just over billion euros) 1290 euros per capita.
Split - 1.460 million kuna - 200 million euros - 990 euros per capita
Rijeka - 870 million kuna (but this is only for main district) - 119 million euros - 790 euros per capita
Osijek - 520 million kuna (100 million USD) pathetic for a city of 115000 - 71 million euros -
Zadar - 500 million kuna - 85-100 million USD ( 5Kn = 1U$) 70 million euros - 617 euros per capita, yepee
Pula - 420 million kuna - 57 million euros - 920 euros per capita
Varazdin - 360 million kuna - 52 million euros - 1000 euros per capita.

You always talk about Russia:)

Since when am I not allowed to talk about my country?:?

Isn't Serbia your country, CrazySerb?:)

2003: $11bln
2004: $14bln
2005: $17bln
2006: $26bln
2007: planned to be $38bln
2008: planned to be $48bln+

Are they stealing this money or have been putting the gas prices up :nuts: :) ?!?

Isn't Serbia your country, CrazySerb?:)

He doesn't have a country, he's a citizen of the world :laugh:

Saint Petersburg approved 2008 budget, and 2009 and 2010 plan.

Incomes
2008: 295,97 bln p. / ~$12,08bln
2009: 335,97 bln p. / ~$13,71bln
2010: 381,54 bln p. / ~$15,57bln

Expenditures
2008: 342,12 bln p. / ~$13,96bln
2009: 361,97 bln p. / ~$14,77bln
2010: 403,34 bln p. / ~$16,46bln

$1 ~ 24,5p.


Are they stealing this money or have been putting the gas prices up :nuts: :) ?!?
you can't speak seriously, don't you? grow up...

Are they stealing this money or have been putting the gas prices up :nuts: :) ?!?

Yes Russia has stolen Romania empty. that's why it's piss poor right now :lol:

Saint Petersburg approved 2008 budget, and 2009 and 2010 plan.

Incomes
2008: 295,97 bln p. / ~$12,08bln
2009: 335,97 bln p. / ~$13,71bln
2010: 381,54 bln p. / ~$15,57bln

Expenditures
2008: 342,12 bln p. / ~$13,96bln
2009: 361,97 bln p. / ~$14,77bln
2010: 403,34 bln p. / ~$16,46bln

$1 ~ 24,5p.



you can't speak seriously, don't you? grow up...

So what are the main income sources, for example, in St. Petersburg? Does city have their own finances and taxes, or is it financed semi-directly from central budget?

So what are the main income sources, for example, in St. Petersburg? Does city have their own finances and taxes, or is it financed semi-directly from central budget?
Local corporate and income taxes.

Warsaw 2008:

Incomes: 9,7 bln PLN- 3,9 bln$- 2,7 bln Euro


Expenditures 11 bln PLN- 4,4 bln $- 3 bln euro

GDP (nominal) 52-57 bln $ ( 15% Poland's GDP nominal)

Yes Russia has stolen Romania empty. that's why it's piss poor right now :lol:

Really, do you think Romania is that poor?? How many times have you visited this country to be able to make yourself an image?

But you are right about the first one. Nevermind, I do not want to bring memories up, but you should realise that it's not that proudfull to boast on stealing.

On the other hand, you should also realise that Russia's present good economic stance is based on a huge loss: the Empire, which is the best thing ever happened in this part of the world. And I think you agree :cheers:

Really, do you think Romania is that poor?? How many times have you visited this country to be able to make yourself an image?

But you are right about the first one. Nevermind, I do not want to bring memories up, but you should realise that it's not that proudfull to boast on stealing.

On the other hand, you should also realise that Russia's present good economic stance is based on a huge loss: the Empire, which is the best thing ever happened in this part of the world. And I think you agree :cheers:
I will never jugde a country if I haven't been there.
In september I visited Arad for the second time. Great beautifull city with a booming economy but it is still a piss poor city compared with other little east european cities. Every 50 meters you can get a Romanian girl for like 20 euros and begging children on the streets.If you get outside the city center you will see what the city looked like 30 years ago. However the situation is improving with most of the money coming from the EU.
And I am not even going to arguing about Bucharest.

Russia has also many poor regions but not that poor as romanian ones. Some regions of russia have even higher per capita gdp then west european cities ( oil and gas cities)

And about the success of the russian economy. It's not about the empire loss no ! Russia lost many of it's economic facilities and places due to the Soviet collapse. It's all about oil and gas now and moving Russia towards a
manufacture and service base ;)

:poke::eek2:I will never jugde a country if I haven't been there.
In september I visited Arad for the second time. Great beautifull city with a booming economy but it is still a piss poor city compared with other little east european cities. Every 50 meters you can get a Romanian girl for like 20 euros and begging children on the streets.If you get outside the city center you will see what the city looked like 30 years ago. However the situation is improving with most of the money coming from the EU.
And I am not even going to arguing about Bucharest.

Russia has also many poor regions but not that poor as romanian ones. Some regions of russia have even higher per capita gdp then west european cities ( oil and gas cities)

And about the success of the russian economy. It's not about the empire loss no ! Russia lost many of it's economic facilities and places due to the Soviet collapse. It's all about oil and gas and now moving Russia towards a
manufacture and service base ;)


OMG! You opened my eyes! I propose to go out of EU NOW and join Russian Federation.

:hilarious

:rofl:

:poke::eek2:


OMG! You opened my eyes! I propose to go out of EU NOW and join Russian Federation.

:hilarious

:rofl:
Did I said that Romania should join Russia ? Or that Russia is a better place then EU ? I think you should be thankfull to the EU that they gave access to such a poor and unready country to join the EU ! Ukraine would be a better member to me. But who cares that's my opinion.

Did I said that Romania should join Russia ? Or that Russia is a better place then EU ? I think you should be thankfull to the EU that they gave access to such a poor and unready country to join the EU ! Ukraine would be a better member to me. But who cares that's my opinion.
I agree with you, except that I don't think Ukraine would be a better member. It would be on par with Romania, if not a worse member.

Yes Russia has stolen Romania empty. that's why it's piss poor right now :lol:

I can't wait to see nebunul's response to this one! :laugh:

I will never jugde a country if I haven't been there.
In september I visited Arad for the second time. Great beautifull city with a booming economy but it is still a piss poor city compared with other little east european cities. Every 50 meters you can get a Romanian girl for like 20 euros and begging children on the streets.If you get outside the city center you will see what the city looked like 30 years ago. However the situation is improving with most of the money coming from the EU.
And I am not even going to arguing about Bucharest.

Russia has also many poor regions but not that poor as romanian ones. Some regions of russia have even higher per capita gdp then west european cities ( oil and gas cities)

And about the success of the russian economy. It's not about the empire loss no ! Russia lost many of it's economic facilities and places due to the Soviet collapse. It's all about oil and gas now and moving Russia towards a
manufacture and service base ;)

Ruslan, I doubt you could see in Arad girls for sale every 50 m for 20 Euro. I do not deny that one could not find prostitues in Romania, as one could also easily find prostitues in Russia, but I am sure that such prostitutes in Romania, as well as in Russia, do not offer their services for only 20 Euro. They at least know how to sell themselves. I am not a client, but I've heard stories about the market and it's a lot more expensive.

Second, Romania is poor because of its communist legacies, and I'd have a restraint if I were you to point at this. :ohno:

Third, I'd be curious to learn about the average per capita income in Russia so that I could tell you how poor Romanians are in comparison to Russia.

Fourth, Romania does not have Russia's resources to develop itself. It rather develops on its own creativity and effort, and not by selling something that comes out of the ground.

Fifth, Romania's way ahead of Ukraine in terms of everything (salaries are higher, Romania's GDP is higher than the of Ukraine, despite it has less than half of Ukraine's population, adminstration is better and less corrupt). If Romania was behind Ukraine, it was Ukraine now in the EU and Romania outside.

I can't wait to see nebunul's response to this one! :laugh:

... here it comeeeeeeesssssssssssss :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers:

Ruslan, I doubt you could see in Arad girls for sale every 50 m for 20 Euro. I do not deny that one could not find prostitues in Romania, as one could also easily find prostitues in Russia, but I am sure that such prostitutes in Romania, as well as in Russia, do not offer their services for only 20 Euro. They at least know how to sell themselves. I am not a client, but I've heard stories about the market and it's a lot more expensive.

Second, Romania is poor because of its communist legacies, and I'd have a restraint if I were you to point at this. :ohno:

Third, I'd be curious to learn about the average per capita income in Russia so that I could tell you how poor Romanians are in comparison to Russia.

Fourth, Romania does not have Russia's resources to develop itself. It rather develops on its own creativity and effort, and not by selling something that comes out of the ground.

Fifth, Romania's way ahead of Ukraine in terms of everything (salaries are higher, Romania's GDP is hgigher than the of Ukraine, despite it has less than half od Ukraine's population, adminstration is better and less corrupt). If Romania was behind Ukraine, it was Ukraine now in the EU and Romania outside.

OOOOGH, and I forgot to mention how rich is Russia where thousands (or tens of thousands) die every year of alcohol (sorry for the error/ Vodca or rather poor or sinthetic alcohol) over-dosage and cold (including in 'filthy' rich cities like Moscow and Saint Petersburg). :ohno:

Ruslan, I doubt you could see in Arad girls for sale every 50 m for 20 Euro. I do not deny that one could not find prostitues in Romania, as one could also easily find prostitues in Russia, but I am sure that such prostitutes in Romania, as well as in Russia, do not offer their services for only 20 Euro. They at least know how to sell themselves. I am not a client, but I've heard stories about the market and it's a lot more expensive.

Second, Romania is poor because of its communist legacies, and I'd have a restraint if I were you to point at this. :ohno:

Third, I'd be curious to learn about the average per capita income in Russia so that I could tell you how poor Romanians are in comparison to Russia.

Fourth, Romania does not have Russia's resources to develop itself. It rather develops on its own creativity and effort, and not by selling something that comes out of the ground.

Fifth, Romania's way ahead of Ukraine in terms of everything (salaries are higher, Romania's GDP is higher than the of Ukraine, despite it has less than half of Ukraine's population, adminstration is better and less corrupt). If Romania was behind Ukraine, it was Ukraine now in the EU and Romania outside.
Yes there are expensive prostitutes but not in Arad !

Second Russia's economy does not only grow on oil and gas. Russia is a much more competitive economy then you think. Russia has so many other well developed sectors and many underdeveloped !

here are just some examples:

complete range of mining and extractive industries producing coal, oil, gas, chemicals, and metals; all forms of machine building from rolling mills to high-performance aircraft and space vehicles; defense industries including radar, missile production, and advanced electronic components, shipbuilding; road and rail transportation equipment; communications equipment; agricultural machinery, tractors, and construction equipment; electric power generating and transmitting equipment; medical and scientific instruments; consumer durables, textiles, foodstuffs, handicrafts

now show me the creativity and effort of Romanian products ?

oh and btw Russia is soon to become the second biggest carproducer in Europe.

OOOOGH, and I forgot to mention how rich is Russia where thousands (or tens of thousands) die every year of alcohol (sorry for the error/ Vodca or rather poor or sinthetic alcohol) over-dosage and cold (including in 'filthy' rich cities like Moscow and Saint Petersburg). :ohno:

You think I am a russian and that's why you are posting such comments ?

btw also many gypsys die every year of the cold on the streets of Bucharest (gypsyrest)

Yes there are expensive prostitutes but not in Arad !

Second Russia's economy does not only grow on oil and gas. Russia is a much more competitive economy then you think. Russia has so many other well developed sectors and many underdeveloped !

here are just some examples:

complete range of mining and extractive industries producing coal, oil, gas, chemicals, and metals; all forms of machine building from rolling mills to high-performance aircraft and space vehicles; defense industries including radar, missile production, and advanced electronic components, shipbuilding; road and rail transportation equipment; communications equipment; agricultural machinery, tractors, and construction equipment; electric power generating and transmitting equipment; medical and scientific instruments; consumer durables, textiles, foodstuffs, handicrafts

now show me the creativity and effort of Romanian products ?

oh and btw Russia is soon to become the second biggest carproducer in Europe.

Romania's doing everything that you mentioned there, except for the defence industry (for obvious reasons) although we do produce (and not only) helicopters and jet planes. In addition, Romania is second country in Europe for IT production after GB...you Microsoft antivirus on your computer was entirely developed in Bucharest and sold to Microsft for big bucks.

Romania is currently producing > 300.000 cars/year and by 2010 will produce at least 700.000 cars (with the new Ford investment). Not to mention the dozen of German, French, Japonese and American car parts producers.

And, to keep the proportions, I think there's no point in comparing Romania and Russia for obvious reasons (size and resources first).

You think I am a russian and that's why you are posting such comments ?

btw also many gypsys die every year of the cold on the streets of Bucharest (gypsyrest)

Yeah, but not in thousands, maybe not even in tens...just a few which are drunk mostly. Not even close from what goes on in Russia.

Yeah, but not in thousands, maybe not even in tens...just a few which are drunk mostly. Not even close from what goes on in Russia.

sure.

Let's not turn this thread into a dick measuring between Russia and Romania, please. With proportions in mind, I think Russia & Romania are somewhat on par. Of course, we'll never have as many natural resources as them, nor such a developed aerospace industry. In regard to how poor these two countries are, they're both countres of contrasts (I don't like this type of countries). Both have very poor and underdeveloped region and problems dating back to the communist times and instead of flexing muscles at each other maybe we should look at the developed countries of Europe and aim to close the gap between us and them.

^^This discussion would only be on-topic if it would be San Marino vs Monaco,or something similar...:nuts::lol:

Monaco wins hands down!:D Just to keep it in the dick measuring field...

You think I am a russian and that's why you are posting such comments ?


What? It doesn't matter whether you are Russian or Haitian :lol:, I just answer your statements...do you think I need to answer only to certain nationalities??!:nuts:

Romania's doing everything that you mentioned there, except for the defence industry (for obvious reasons) although we do produce (and not only) helicopters and jet planes. In addition, Romania is second country in Europe for IT production after GB...you Microsoft antivirus on your computer was entirely developed in Bucharest and sold to Microsft for big bucks.

Romania is currently producing > 300.000 cars/year and by 2010 will produce at least 700.000 cars (with the new Ford investment). Not to mention the dozen of German, French, Japonese and American car parts producers.

And, to keep the proportions, I think there's no point in comparing Romania and Russia for obvious reasons (size and resources first).

please don't make me laugh :lol:
Romania produces space aircrafts ? and the most thing that I mentioned are Russian made, except the auto industry. Most things made in Romania are foreign products ;)

Let's not turn this thread into a dick measuring between Russia and Romania, please. With proportions in mind, I think Russia & Romania are somewhat on par. Of course, we'll never have as many natural resources as them, nor such a developed aerospace industry. In regard to how poor these two countries are, they're both countres of contrasts (I don't like this type of countries). Both have very poor and underdeveloped region and problems dating back to the communist times and instead of flexing muscles at each other maybe we should look at the developed countries of Europe and aim to close the gap between us and them.
Well I just said that Romania is a poor country ( which is true) and some Romanians are so insulted that they need to begin into a dick measuring thread with Russia.

What? It doesn't matter whether you are Russian or Haitian :lol:, I just answer your statements...do you think I need to answer only to certain nationalities??!:nuts:
many of your comments are russophobic as of you point your comments direct to a russian person. While I am not :)

please don't make me laugh :lol:
Romania produces space aircrafts ? and the most thing that I mentioned are Russian made, except the auto industry. Most things made in Romania are foreign products ;)

I'd advise you pay attention to my statements. I never said 'space aircrafts' but 'jet planes' :nuts:...big difference I believe.

Romania's doing everything that you mentioned there, except for the defence industry (for obvious reasons) although we do produce (and not only) helicopters and jet planes.

CoRomanians, please help me out with the names and ownership of the companies here which produce helicopters and jet planes. (I know they are in Bacau and Brasov and maybe Craiova).
And yeah, most things in Romania are foreign products, which is also true for a lot of countries in Europe, but I do not see what's wrong with that :crazy2:.

And, if we talk cars here, I do not know whether Russia has a competitive self-owned car company.... I know Russian car companies, but I would not buy their cars.

many of your comments are russophobic as of you point your comments direct to a russian person. While I am not :)

What's rusophobic about my comments. Please, give some examples.

Did I say 'I hate Russians' and I do not know that? :)

CoRomanians, please help me out with the names and ownership of the companies here which produce helicopters and jet planes.
Aerostar Bacau, together with Elbit Systems from Israel upgraded RoAF MiG-21 fleet as part of the Lancer program. It also worked on the Sniper MiG-29 modernization program, but the funding for it was cut.
IAR Gimbav (Braşov) produces IAR-330 Puma SOCAT and Puma Naval helicopters.
Avioane Craiova produces the IAR-99 Şoim, an advanced training & light attack aircraft, recognised by BAe to be on the top 3 aircraft in it's class.
These would be the big players in the industry in Romania, as there are also smaller ones...

Aerostar Bacau, together with Elbit Systems from Israel upgraded RoAF MiG-21 fleet as part of the Lancer program.
IAR Gimbav (Braşov) produces IAR-330 Puma SOCAT and Puma Naval helicopters.
Avioane Craiova produces the IAR-99 Şoim, an advanced training & light attack aircraft, recognised by BAe to be on the top 3 aircraft in it's class.
These would be the big players in the industry in Romania, as there are also smaller ones...


:cheers: Thanks, Cosmin...I was thinking about you when said CoRomanians :)...just admire your knowledge of the military....I am not that good at it :ohno:

Well I just said that Romania is a poor country ( which is true) and some Romanians are so insulted that they need to begin into a dick measuring thread with Russia.

Who started the dick measuring?? Read better your posts:

will never jugde a country if I haven't been there.
In september I visited Arad for the second time. Great beautifull city with a booming economy but it is still a piss poor city compared with other little east european cities. Every 50 meters you can get a Romanian girl for like 20 euros and begging children on the streets.If you get outside the city center you will see what the city looked like 30 years ago. However the situation is improving with most of the money coming from the EU.
And I am not even going to arguing about Bucharest.

Russia has also many poor regions but not that poor as romanian ones. Some regions of russia have even higher per capita gdp then west european cities ( oil and gas cities)

And about the success of the russian economy. It's not about the empire loss no ! Russia lost many of it's economic facilities and places due to the Soviet collapse. It's all about oil and gas now and moving Russia towards a
manufacture and service base .

I thought you knew more about Romania, but you actually don't. No offence, but you cannot sustain your arguments (or rather hear-say).

I'd advise you pay attention to my statements. I never said 'space aircrafts' but 'jet planes' :nuts:...big difference I believe.



CoRomanians, please help me out with the names and ownership of the companies here which produce helicopters and jet planes. (I know they are in Bacau and Brasov and maybe Craiova).
And yeah, most things in Romania are foreign products, which is also true for a lot of countries in Europe, but I do not see what's wrong with that :crazy2:.

And, if we talk cars here, I do not know whether Russia has a competitive self-owned car company.... I know Russian car companies, but I would not buy their cars.
Le clerk please learn to read. I mentioned high-performance aircraft and space vehicles as an example of what Russia produces ! You answered: Romania's doing everything that you mentioned there, except for the defence industry (for obvious reasons) although we do produce (and not only) helicopters and jet planes

Space products are not defense products !

Btw I would also never buy Lada or a Dacia :lol:

Russia is already producing: Ford, Bmw, Hummer, Chevrolet, Yuejin and Chery, Kia, Renault.

Plants U/C or plants approved to construct them: Toyota. Mitsubishi, Mercedes, Chrysler, Peugeot/Citroen, Volkswagen and Skoda, Suzuki, Hyundai, Opel, Volvo, Scania and Isuzu and many more.

Who's dick is now longer and bigger ha ? :lol:

Who started the dick measuring?? Read better your posts:



I thought you knew more about Romania, but you actually don't. No offence, but you cannot sustain your arguments (or rather hear-say).

It all started about this my friend

Really, do you think Romania is that poor?? How many times have you visited this country to be able to make yourself an image?

But you are right about the first one. Nevermind, I do not want to bring memories up, but you should realise that it's not that proudfull to boast on stealing.

On the other hand, you should also realise that Russia's present good economic stance is based on a huge loss: the Empire, which is the best thing ever happened in this part of the world. And I think you agree :cheers:

If you can't accept that Romania is a poor country then go cry out at your Gypsy friends :cry::cry::cry:

I am now going to have a drink. Goodbye my dear Gypsy friend :cheers:

Le clerk please learn to read. I mentioned high-performance aircraft and space vehicles as an example of what Russia produces ! You answered: Romania's doing everything that you mentioned there, except for the defence industry (for obvious reasons) although we do produce (and not only) helicopters and jet planes

Space products are not defense products !
Btw I would also never buy Lada or a Dacia :lol:

Russia is already producing: Ford, Bmw, Hummer, Chevrolet, Yuejin and Chery, Kia, Renault.
Plants U/C or plants approved to construct them: Toyota. Mitsubishi, Mercedes, Chrysler, Peugeot/Citroen, Volkswagen and Skoda, Suzuki, Hyundai, Opel, Volvo, Scania and Isuzu and many more.

Who's dick is now longer and bigger ha ? :lol:

Oh, that? You really thought I was referring to space aircraft when I answered your question? C'mon...:lol:

And why do you need to go back again to dick measuring :nuts:

Seriously, try measure Russia's dick with some of its peers like the US or China or even Germany if you are up to that kind of comparisons..what's the point comparing Romania and Russia, really? :nuts:

I am now going to have a drink. Goodbye my dear Gypsy friend :cheers:

Now you start to annoy me and I'll stop this discussion here because you're obviously starting to plough the fields and I do not want to join you.

BTW: I do not envy Russia at all, I am just happy we got rid of it. I do not mind Russians (and you did not answer to me why you thought I was Russophobic) but I do not think Russia was a good neighbour to us because of history.

It all started about this my friend

Just for the record, first comparison was this and belongs to you:

Russia has also many poor regions but not that poor as romanian ones

If you can't accept that Romania is a poor country then go cry out at your Gypsy friends :cry::cry::cry:

I am now going to have a drink. Goodbye my dear Gypsy friend :cheers:
Dick!:D

It all started about this my friend



If you can't accept that Romania is a poor country then go cry out at your Gypsy friends :cry::cry::cry:

I am now going to have a drink. Goodbye my dear Gypsy friend :cheers:

"Human rights groups believe there could be as many as 4.5-million homeless children in Russia, and the numbers are growing"

"We find 11-year-old Zhenya who ran away from home five days ago.
Yulia asks him about his parents. His mum works, but drinks a lot and his dad is an alcoholic."

"One thing is clear, the absolute number and proportion of kids ending up in the street is increasing and it's related to the changing times, to poverty, to huge rate of divorce. About 80 per cent of all marriages end in divorce."

"Wages in Russia have risen. The average wage rose 50 percent in the past three years, to 6,832 rubles, or $246, a month in 2004."

"But the income gap between the richest and the poorest Russians is widening"

As you can see, you guys might have alot of millionares and billionares, through connections, but you also have alot of poor. You might be a wealthy nation in terms of resources but in other structures like democratic institutions, human rights, poverty among the middle and lower class, Russia is, and i use this term lightly, quite bad. I would not call Russia just poor, oh no, because it is not poor money wise. But i would call the living conditions, standard of living and quality of life very poor.....for such a "wealthy nation". :lol: You can make fun of other countries like Romania whom have had a hard time with the past and whom have had difficulties in transitioning into a more democratic gov't, something Russia still has to do, but in the end your only fooling yourself because in years time Romania's economy/standard of living/QoL with other SE countries will be on par with most of Western countries while Russia will still be "transitioning" and the working class still suffering. No need to dilute yourself with propaganda, you've done enough of that in the past, because frankly I'd rather live my life as a Romanian living up to at least 72 years old and enjoying some freedoms rather then dying at 65 due to drinking to much alcohol. Thanks, but no thanks. Take that mentality somewhere else. Don't overdose on that drink. And if you can't accept that Russia is still not that good, well you can go cry to your Chechen friends :cry: :cry: :cry: . Deja Vu.

I'd advise you pay attention to my statements. I never said 'space aircrafts' but 'jet planes' :nuts:...big difference I believe.


BTW To Whom It May Concern ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_aircraft

@DanMs
You are crossing the line

It all started about this my friend



If you can't accept that Romania is a poor country then go cry out at your Gypsy friends :cry::cry::cry:

I am now going to have a drink. Goodbye my dear Gypsy friend :cheers:


Oh, sorry but for the above post you don't warn him..but I crossed the line? I see your logic here.

@DanMs
You are crossing the line

Coth,

I understand you are the moderator here? Then, I can say I appreciated your interventions so far, but I was surprised this time.

Then, for the sake of the seriousness of this forum, can we see some objectivity here?

Bucharest was once called Gypsyrest and then I was called a Gypsy...by Ruslan...without even trying to offend him...I take he was pretty pissed off today, but I don't have to take that from him.

So, can I ask whether the statements above fit the forum's rules?

If not, what will be the sanctions for Ruslan?

If yes, can I start doing what Ruslan did for the whole time, just becose it's legal here?

Thank you for your answer and I trust you're doing a good moderator job, still. :cheers:

Coth,

I understand you are the moderator here? Then, I can say I appreciated your interventions so far, but I was surprised this time.

Then, for the sake of the seriousness of this forum, can we see some objectivity here?

Bucharest was once called Gypsyrest and then I was called a Gypsy...by Ruslan...without even trying to offend him...I take he was pretty pissed off today, but I don't have to take that from him.

So, can I ask whether the statements above fit the forum's rules?

If not, what will be the sanctions for Ruslan?

If yes, can I start doing what Ruslan did for the whole time, just becose it's legal here?

Thank you for your answer and I trust you're doing a good moderator job, still. :cheers:

:cheers:

Oh, sorry but for the above post you don't warn him..but I crossed the line? I see your logic here.

It's not a my business to warn people in this section. But I note you that you are going too far with your statements. It's just too offending + generalizing + simply not true (an original research, as wikipedia call it). As number of homeless children going down very fast, gini index is going down (that means a gap between poorest and richest is decreasing), birth rate is going up, death rate is going down, average nominal wage is going up rapidly and reached $900ID in August (comparing to average poverty level at $220ID and extreme poverty level at $90ID). HDI is rapidly growing, many regions have passed 0,8 mark. Number of crimes going down (-6%). Unemployment rate going down significantly. Number of alcoholics is about same as in UK. HID is about same as in Spain etc etc etc

All you doing is just throwing a very abusive and generalizing populist statements that has nothing to do with true.

For those interested in EU-Russia dick measuring in a more profound way here is a report written by a very good friend of mine...

as I said that's pour les connaisseurs

http://www.ecfr.eu/content/entry/commentary_pr_russia_power_audit/

you can also download the full report there.

I know that the report upset a lot of people in moscow, that's for sure

I read this report earlier. Later, it served me well as a good alternative to toilet paper:yes:

Do you shit binary digits or you had the report printed before shitting?:nuts:

It's not a my business to warn people in this section. But I note you that you are going too far with your statements. It's just too offending + generalizing + simply not true (an original research, as wikipedia call it). As number of homeless children going down very fast, gini index is going down (that means a gap between poorest and richest is decreasing), birth rate is going up, death rate is going down, average nominal wage is going up rapidly and reached $900ID in August (comparing to average poverty level at $220ID and extreme poverty level at $90ID). HDI is rapidly growing, many regions have passed 0,8 mark. Number of crimes going down (-6%). Unemployment rate going down significantly. Number of alcoholics is about same as in UK. HID is about same as in Spain etc etc etc

All you doing is just throwing a very abusive and generalizing populist statements that has nothing to do with true.

Still waiting for an answer to my previous, Coth.
Thanks.

your post has been answered just in a post you quoted

I read this report earlier. Later, it served me well as a good alternative to toilet paper:yes:

If that's your everyday language maybe this type of academic research is not for you. Now go back to tabloids.

"Human rights groups believe there could be as many as 4.5-million homeless children in Russia, and the numbers are growing"

"We find 11-year-old Zhenya who ran away from home five days ago.
Yulia asks him about his parents. His mum works, but drinks a lot and his dad is an alcoholic."

"One thing is clear, the absolute number and proportion of kids ending up in the street is increasing and it's related to the changing times, to poverty, to huge rate of divorce. About 80 per cent of all marriages end in divorce."

"Wages in Russia have risen. The average wage rose 50 percent in the past three years, to 6,832 rubles, or $246, a month in 2004."

"But the income gap between the richest and the poorest Russians is widening"

As you can see, you guys might have alot of millionares and billionares, through connections, but you also have alot of poor. You might be a wealthy nation in terms of resources but in other structures like democratic institutions, human rights, poverty among the middle and lower class, Russia is, and i use this term lightly, quite bad. I would not call Russia just poor, oh no, because it is not poor money wise. But i would call the living conditions, standard of living and quality of life very poor.....for such a "wealthy nation". :lol: You can make fun of other countries like Romania whom have had a hard time with the past and whom have had difficulties in transitioning into a more democratic gov't, something Russia still has to do, but in the end your only fooling yourself because in years time Romania's economy/standard of living/QoL with other SE countries will be on par with most of Western countries while Russia will still be "transitioning" and the working class still suffering. No need to dilute yourself with propaganda, you've done enough of that in the past, because frankly I'd rather live my life as a Romanian living up to at least 72 years old and enjoying some freedoms rather then dying at 65 due to drinking to much alcohol. Thanks, but no thanks. Take that mentality somewhere else. Don't overdose on that drink. And if you can't accept that Russia is still not that good, well you can go cry to your Chechen friends :cry: :cry: :cry: . Deja Vu.
Albanian were did stole your computer to write me such a nice message ?

You want to heat this thread up for sure. Please add some more oil on the fire :ohno:

Official Kyiv budget for 2007 was around 2.7 bln USD (13 bln hryvnas), it has been increased now to be over 3 bln. Planned for next year is around 4 bln USD.

Ruslan, this is not a political forum and you are clearly here solely for that as well as insulting entire nations that you don't like.

your post has been answered just in a post you quoted

No, I demand an answer to this:



I understand you are the moderator here? Then, I can say I appreciated your interventions so far, but I was surprised this time.

Then, for the sake of the seriousness of this forum, can we see some objectivity here?

Bucharest was once called Gypsyrest and then I was called a Gypsy...by Ruslan...without even trying to offend him...I take he was pretty pissed off today, but I don't have to take that from him.

So, can I ask whether the statements above fit the forum's rules?

If not, what will be the sanctions for Ruslan?

If yes, can I start doing what Ruslan did for the whole time, just becose it's legal here?

Thank you for your answer and I trust you're doing a good moderator job, still

Albanian were did stole your computer to write me such a nice message ?

You want to heat this thread up for sure. Please add some more oil on the fire :ohno:

By the way, I'll call your city Moscostan?? You know, from the many stans you have in that city, isn't it already a stan by now? I think it is and I'll call it a Moscostan.

OK, Rustan or Rusvotcan? whatever you like best.

PS: Coth, this is the result of your previous email.

Wow, I can't belive I actually missed this thread. :cheers:

Anyways, I'd like to see some economics problems in this country, a genocide is that country, and a war between those two countries. Just to add on, I like to use my sense of enthic predjudice to be my guide. Moscow is the greatest city in the world, all those phoney cities that call themselves "world cities" deserve to suffer. Let them fall to nuclear explosions, epedemics, and flood. World will soon take its orders from Moscow and Lord Putin, once the Grand Palace of the Soviets is built. Anybody who doesn't agree with me is mentally ill and should be shot.

:skull:

.....I find this annoying :bash:

"Human rights groups believe there could be as many as 4.5-million homeless children in Russia, and the numbers are growing"

"We find 11-year-old Zhenya who ran away from home five days ago.
Yulia asks him about his parents. His mum works, but drinks a lot and his dad is an alcoholic."

"One thing is clear, the absolute number and proportion of kids ending up in the street is increasing and it's related to the changing times, to poverty, to huge rate of divorce. About 80 per cent of all marriages end in divorce."

"Wages in Russia have risen. The average wage rose 50 percent in the past three years, to 6,832 rubles, or $246, a month in 2004."

"But the income gap between the richest and the poorest Russians is widening"

As you can see, you guys might have alot of millionares and billionares, through connections, but you also have alot of poor. You might be a wealthy nation in terms of resources but in other structures like democratic institutions, human rights, poverty among the middle and lower class, Russia is, and i use this term lightly, quite bad. I would not call Russia just poor, oh no, because it is not poor money wise. But i would call the living conditions, standard of living and quality of life very poor.....for such a "wealthy nation". :lol: You can make fun of other countries like Romania whom have had a hard time with the past and whom have had difficulties in transitioning into a more democratic gov't, something Russia still has to do, but in the end your only fooling yourself because in years time Romania's economy/standard of living/QoL with other SE countries will be on par with most of Western countries while Russia will still be "transitioning" and the working class still suffering. No need to dilute yourself with propaganda, you've done enough of that in the past, because frankly I'd rather live my life as a Romanian living up to at least 72 years old and enjoying some freedoms rather then dying at 65 due to drinking to much alcohol. Thanks, but no thanks. Take that mentality somewhere else. Don't overdose on that drink. And if you can't accept that Russia is still not that good, well you can go cry to your Chechen friends :cry: :cry: :cry: . Deja Vu.

Russia is a country run by corrupt mafia oligrachs, buts its still better off than Albania, if that answers your question. Check HDI and GDP per-capita if you want.

Also your comments seem to be very much anti-alcohol and I bet I know why. "Kosovo Albanians are proud muslims" - thunderman :lol:

Wow, I can't belive I actually missed this thread. :cheers:

Anyways, I'd like to see some economics problems in this country, a genocide is that country, and a war between those two countries. Just to add on, I like to use my sense of enthic predjudice to be my guide. Moscow is the greatest city in the world, all those phoney cities that call themselves "world cities" deserve to suffer. Let them fall to nuclear explosions, epedemics, and flood. World will soon take its orders from Moscow and Lord Putin, once the Grand Palace of the Soviets is built. Anybody who doesn't agree with me is mentally ill and should be shot.

:skull:

.....I find this annoying :bash:



Russia is a country run by corrupt mafia oligrachs, buts its still better off than Albania, if that answers your question. Check HDI and GDP per-capita if you want.

Also your comments seem to be very much anti-alcohol and I bet I know why. "Kosovo Albanians are proud muslims" - thunderman :lol:

My turn now: what about a zillion Chinese millitary boots on the Kremlin? That's what I call the ultimate orgasm :lol: Auch, auch, auch

awarded Polish movie shows how ppl live in Russia

http://www.childrenofleningradsky.com/

mister ruslan, mister coth, please, you can believe in your rocks, but don't throw them at us.

Hey, guys, we should appreciate the interest some peoples have for our country ! I`ve already seen in ruslan posts that he`s here, on SSC, only for romania ! :cheers: After the painful loss of our biggest fan, fradista, :cry:, ruslan has the best chance to fill the empty place fradista left in our hearts ! :cheers:

We definitely need more earth-anchored Russian users around here. People that are not so biased and can admit that although Russia has a lot of potential, and many people live very well in big Russians cities, there's a huge bunch that is no better than our poor right here, in "puny" Romania. But with a president that revives the cold war, what can one expect?

But let's go back on topic. I made a top 10 of city budgets from the info that was already posted, but many other cities are still missing, so c'mon, less political bullshit, more economic data!:)

We have no budget for 2008 for Budapest yet,but in 2007,it was 400billion HUF(1.55 billion EUR)...thought the government invests in the city too-and I cant decide if the source is credible or not(economy news portal).
EDIT:in 2007,the budget of Szeged was 51billion HUF(0.19 billion EUR),for same reason..no data for 2008 yet.

Hey, guys, we should appreciate the interest some peoples have for our country ! I`ve already seen in ruslan posts that he`s here, on SSC, only for romania ! :cheers: After the painful loss of our biggest fan, fradista, :cry:, ruslan has the best chance to fill the empty place fradista left in our hearts ! :cheers:

true :lol:

:applause::cheer: welcome rusland :hilarious

We have no budget for 2008 for Budapest yet,but in 2007,it was 400billion HUF(1.55 billion EUR)...thought the government invests in the city too-and I cant decide if the source is credible or not(economy news portal).
EDIT:in 2007,the budget of Szeged was 51billion HUF(0.19 billion EUR),for same reason..no data for 2008 yet.

Why is Budapest's budget lower than Bucharest's? There must be a mistake...AFAIK, population in the 2 capitals is about the same. Am I wrong?

^^:dunno:

Why is Budapest's budget lower than Bucharest's? There must be a mistake...AFAIK, population in the 2 capitals is about the same. Am I wrong?

maybe they don't need more money than us? I believe Budapests infrastructure is more advanced than ours.

Or maybe it's because of the GDP? Their GDP (PPP) is about 200 billion $, ours is 250 billion $
So they would be spending almost the same % of their GDP for their capital as we are.

maybe they don't need more money than us? I believe Budapests infrastructure is more advanced than ours.

Or maybe it's because of the GDP? Their GDP (PPP) is about 200 billion $, ours is 250 billion $
So they would be spending almost the same % of their GDP for their capital as we are.

Sometimes country has some projects and money goes directly from country.

Ljubljana, capital of Slovenia received 360 million € in 2006 (population 256.000), Country budget financed another 140 million € of project in Ljubljana.
So Ljubljana gets around 500 million €. 1953 €/capita

Maribor (pop. 115.000) receive 110 million € in 2007. Country financed another 60 million €.
Budget around 170 million €. (1487 € /capita)

What is paid by country and not by city:

-Main roads
-Schools, highschools, universities
-Hospitals
-Salaries for all public employed people , except fot those who have job at citys adimistration
-larger projects
-...

maybe they don't need more money than us? I believe Budapests infrastructure is more advanced than ours.

Or maybe it's because of the GDP? Their GDP (PPP) is about 200 billion $, ours is 250 billion $
So they would be spending almost the same % of their GDP for their capital as we are.

Local budget is not about investments, but about how much money a city raises from local taxes from people, companies, and property, that is revenue. Investments are expenditure the city does.

So, revenues (budget) are decided by the city's economy, while investments (expenditure) are determined by decision of the cities (mainly local councils) depending on their envisaged priorities.

I frankly do not think Budapest is lower than Bucharest in terms of revenues to the local budget...I do not see how would that be possible, since I believe foreign investment in Budapest is higher than in Bucharest. On the other hand, it may also be the case that Bucharest gained a lot of money from the recent huge investments in real estate and contruction development.

Perhaps this is more representative (since whole Slovenia has population of one decent city:lol::lol::lol:)

Budget of whole Slovenia (2007) (population 2.019.000)

Budget:8,63 BLN € (4274 €/capita)
Expenditure: 8,86 BLN € (4388€/capita)

Bastards are taking a lot from people:bash::lol:

Alright people, go go go bashing each other, this is getting fun! Come on! :banana:

(...)

I'm not sure,but this number might be only for the city...not for the districts. The districts have own budget too. If every district only has an extra 5billion HUF(compared to the 400billion for the city),it means an additional 23*5 billion. Though as I said,this is mere speculation,because I cant find data on the net for budget numbers...I dont know why it is a secret...

No, I demand an answer to this:

And I insist - this has been answered in a post you have quoted.

awarded Polish movie shows how ppl live in Russia

http://www.childrenofleningradsky.com/
This is not a first time when you post this fake movie. Not even second or third. Stop spamming the forum.

I do not see how would that be possible, since I believe foreign investment in Budapest is higher than in Bucharest.

I am curious if there is any data available ...

And I insist - this has been answered in a post you have quoted.

I take it you do not want to answer me directly...quite low of you...thought you got some cojones here, man...don't care if you ban me, I already made an idea how 'great' job you're doing...it's just a pity that al these decent people around here get fucked up by a few idiots...and that you take sides with the wrong ones as you shouldn't.

Anyway, before I get banned from here, I say good bye guys and warn Coth that I take his answer as a tacit acceptance of my proposition to call Moscow - Moscstan, and some guys around here - Rustans...and not stop until I get a decent answer to my email. :cheers:

Le Clerk, coth is obviously biased and that's too bad, but who cares? Please don't mock all Russians because of a few idiots. If they think their country is full of honey and $$$ too bad for them.

Le Clerk, coth is obviously biased and that's too bad, but who cares? Please don't mock all Russians because of a few idiots. If they think their country is full of honey and $$$ too bad for them.

Yeah, I see, but I do not want to take that shitty answer from him despite/moreso he's the moderator here.

And before I get banned, I propose we vote for another moderator here, as long as the current one obviously's not doing the job he was voted for. So, who's for this proposition???

I vote FOR. :cheers:

Yeah, I see, but I do not want to take that shitty answer from him despite/moreso he's the moderator here.

And before I get banned, I propose we vote for another moderator here, as long as the current one obviously's not doing the job he was voted for. So, who's for this proposition???

I vote FOR. :cheers:

Relax Le Clerk ! You won`t be banned for nothing ! :cheers:

Officially Nebunul started the argument with his immature comment, but then Ruslan totally overreacted. Ruslan is new on this forum, so I assume he still takes Nebunul serious :)

jk Nebunul :|

Le Clerk, coth is obviously biased and that's too bad, but who cares? Please don't mock all Russians because of a few idiots. If they think their country is full of honey and $$$ too bad for them.

I won't mock all Russians...I really respect Russians as I think they are very smart and decent people..I even had a Russian professor when I did my LLM abroad...the smartest and most dedicated and instructed professor of all (I had professors of all nationalities, from N America to Europe)...and I generally tend to judge Russians by His (I owe a lot to Him) measure, but I won't accept such offensive treatment, irrespective the nationality it comes from (American or Russian). I just got very pissed off not by Ruslan's dickhead posts, but by the moderator's attitude. Fuck, I thought we were a community here.

I won't mock all Russians...I really respect Russians as I think they are very smart and decent people..I even had a Russian professor when I did my LLM abroad...the smartest and most dedicated and instructed professor of all (I had professors of all nationalities, from N America to Europe)...and I generally tend to judge Russians by His (I owe a lot to Him) measure, but I won't accept such offensive treatment, irrespective the nationality it comes from (American or Russian). I just got very pissed off not by Ruslan's dickhead posts, but by the moderator's attitude. Fuck, I thought we were a community here.
Chill out dude, the shit goes both ways

All of us need to be more tollerant (as a Russian on this forum, I have learned this :yes:)

All of us need to be more tollerant (as a Russian on this forum, I have learned this :yes:)

I very much agree :cheers:

Ruslan, this is not a political forum and you are clearly here solely for that as well as insulting entire nations that you don't like.

At least I am not a self appointed propaganda machine from Ukraine like you ;)

This is not a first time when you post this fake movie. Not even second or third. Stop spamming the forum.

yes, I know you dont like it, but spamming? you are the best at!!

i like pie.

Dolphins should be hunted down to extinction.

I won't mock all Russians...I really respect Russians as I think they are very smart and decent people..I even had a Russian professor when I did my LLM abroad...the smartest and most dedicated and instructed professor of all (I had professors of all nationalities, from N America to Europe)...and I generally tend to judge Russians by His (I owe a lot to Him) measure, but I won't accept such offensive treatment, irrespective the nationality it comes from (American or Russian). I just got very pissed off not by Ruslan's dickhead posts, but by the moderator's attitude. Fuck, I thought we were a community here.

Nice to meet you then Le Clerk. Yes I am new on this forum but I was very surprised how many people up here are Russophobic ( I thought more people would understand the russians)
Back to you, you shouldn't overreact on the comment that Romania is poor.
First if you read the second page you will see that I reacted on a joke made by nebunul :cheers:
Sorry that I have heart your feelings about poor Romania joke but come on ej you should know how much shit people post about Russia. And if I was a russian I would personaly smash those persons in their face.
But ok No hard feelings let's seal the deal. We both overreaced on some things and provoced each other.
Now I have learned in this forum that the majorty up here will be against Russia or russophobic and that I can never win their trust.
But it's ok Russophobia will be everywhere and we should learn to deal with it :cheers:

So what is your background, Ruslan? Let me guess... you or your family grew up in a soviet military gorodok/town somewhere in Central Asia, you are mostly Russian, maybe with some Jewish, but your grandmother was Ukrainian. Your family has also lived a couple of years in the Baltics.

Did I get it right? :)

Собаки лают, караван идёт :|

Yeah, I see, but I do not want to take that shitty answer from him despite/moreso he's the moderator here.

And before I get banned, I propose we vote for another moderator here, as long as the current one obviously's not doing the job he was voted for. So, who's for this proposition???

I vote FOR. :cheers:
first of all you need to learn rules. speaking about moderation is allowed by private messages only. second - i don't see a reason to double post my message answering two different people. your question is answered, but you don't want to read the answer.

ok. i'll repost my message and i'll bold answers to your questions.


It's not a my business to warn people in this section. But I note you that you are going too far with your statements. It's just too offending + generalizing + simply not true (an original research, as wikipedia call it). As number of homeless children going down very fast, gini index is going down (that means a gap between poorest and richest is decreasing), birth rate is going up, death rate is going down, average nominal wage is going up rapidly and reached $900ID in August (comparing to average poverty level at $220ID and extreme poverty level at $90ID). HDI is rapidly growing, many regions have passed 0,8 mark. Number of crimes going down (-6%). Unemployment rate going down significantly. Alcoholism rate is about same as in UK. HIV rate is about same as in Spain etc etc etc

All you doing is just throwing a very abusive and generalizing populist statements that has nothing to do with true.




yes, I know you dont like it, but spamming? you are the best at!!
It was proven to be fake but you keep posting it all the time only for provoking purposes.


Собаки лают, караван идёт :|
и верблюды и слоны иногда чихают на собак ;)

Собаки лают, караван идёт :|

now in human language please :)

now in human language please :)
I think it's a proverb... dogs bark, the caravan goes.:clown:

Well done Cosmin, and this proverb applies to all sides on this thread ;)

I think it's a proverb... dogs bark, the caravan goes.:clown:

just teasing with him, but I dont understand the word :)

first of all you need to learn rules

You need to learn some rules yourself and warn/ban the user that posted a false or offending statement first. So a respectful behaviour from you would be to read the entire thread first, and only then to make up your mind and warn and/or ban whoever's incited to arguments/insults and who's not ...


и верблюды и слоны иногда чихают на собак ;)

This is an international forum and you're very unprofessional when using ZA language we all love the most :cheers:

Delfin, being Slavic you should try and understand the advantages of cyrillics ;)

Polish names like Szczecin make me scream in agony :)

Delfin, being Slavic you should try and understand the advantages of cyrillics ;)

Polish names like Szczecin make me scream in agony :)

Latin is superior, cyrillic is sth I cant deal with, sorry, I could learn Chinese as well, but yes Szczecin is fucked up :)

You need to learn some rules yourself and warn/ban the user that posted a false or offending statement first. So a respectful behaviour from you would be to read the entire thread first, and only then to make up your mind and warn and/or ban whoever's incited to arguments/insults and who's not ...
I don't care who said what before, however, golov said you who started what. But all I see that dozen of forumers posting absolute crap and shit about my country just for fun and then attacking Russians, who are trying to disprove it with backed up numbers and facts, throwing on personalities and generalizations.

Nebunul can't talk, he started the argument

Are they stealing this money or have been putting the gas prices up :nuts: :) ?!?

You call this argument?! :lol: Whatever ... lets move on and start discussing some real stuff ...

So what is your background, Ruslan? Let me guess... you or your family grew up in a soviet military gorodok/town somewhere in Central Asia, you are mostly Russian, maybe with some Jewish, but your grandmother was Ukrainian. Your family has also lived a couple of years in the Baltics.

Did I get it right? :)

Do you always talk crap like this. Better don't say anything if you don't know anything about me ты понял ?

back to my background. I am from the beautifull place called Abhazia !
I am sure you would like to know why I'm not a Russophobe ?

Wanna talk with me ? Send me a private message !

greetings from Abhazia

http://www.omniplan.hu/1978-Soviet/L/sc-1978-Soviet-097-Rica-to.jpg

Ruslan, why are you such a troll, who gives a monkeys arse where you from, this thread is about city budget, btw I do not know where Abhazija is, nor do I care to be honest.

I am sure if you look for Georgian threads you can go and piss of some of there forumers there, lets stick to the city budgets.

I'd really like to know city budgets for other EE countries.

Prague
Budapest,
Tallinn
Vilnius
Riga
Ljubljana
Maribor
Brno
Krakow
Tartu
and so on...
thanx

Fantastic, finally we have a forumer from Abkhazia!!! :okay:

Ruslan, why are you such a troll, who gives a monkeys arse where you from, this thread is about city budget, btw I do not knows where Abhazija is, nor do I care to be honest.


I just replyed to a forumer ;) some people are just too sensiftive about their countries condition :ohno:

Isn't Serbia your country, CrazySerb?:)Nah, he's pan Slavic unity freak, so he consider every Slavic country as his homeland. :banana::ohno:

Panslavism sucks

Panslavism sucks

lol, Second that :cheers:

Wow, I can't belive I actually missed this thread. :cheers:

Anyways, I'd like to see some economics problems in this country, a genocide is that country, and a war between those two countries. Just to add on, I like to use my sense of enthic predjudice to be my guide. Moscow is the greatest city in the world, all those phoney cities that call themselves "world cities" deserve to suffer. Let them fall to nuclear explosions, epedemics, and flood. World will soon take its orders from Moscow and Lord Putin, once the Grand Palace of the Soviets is built. Anybody who doesn't agree with me is mentally ill and should be shot.

:skull:

.....I find this annoying :bash:



Russia is a country run by corrupt mafia oligrachs, buts its still better off than Albania, if that answers your question. Check HDI and GDP per-capita if you want.

Also your comments seem to be very much anti-alcohol and I bet I know why. "Kosovo Albanians are proud muslims" - thunderman :lol:

That is all quite a nice statement, except for two little things. I am, by religion, Orthodox just like my "Russian brothers" and by nationality i am Canadian, so unless you want to compare statistics between Canada and Russia then I suggest you sit down from the corrupted chair you just rose from. Nice try:lol:

first of all you need to learn rules.

OK, please let me know the rules. Thanks.

your question is answered, but you don't want to read the answer.

ok. i'll repost my message and i'll bold answers to your questions.

It's not a my business to warn people in this section. But I note you that you are going too far with your statements.

Coth, if it is NOT your business as moderator in EE section, why did you warn DanMs??

@DanMs
You are crossing the line

I took it YOU WERE the MODERATOR here, as long as YOU WARNED a member of the EE section (caps for the sake of highlight and not offense) ! Maybe I do not know the rules as I am new here, but, I am asking, is it a RULE that moderators from ONE section should WARN members in ANOTHER section? Just asking about the rules cause I do not know them, I admit, just direct myself on my instinct and try not be offensive...and BTW, can I be directed to where the rules for the SSC are deposited? Just so I read them. Thanks.

That is what drove me to conclude you were the moderator on EE section. And actually, my first question was whether you were the moderator here, and you left it unanswered, although you answered many other subsequent questions or statements from other people:

Originally Posted by coth
@DanMs

You are crossing the line
And, as a result of THAT, I asked:

Coth,
I understand you are the moderator here?

you left it unanswered. So, the fact that you warned a member of EE section plus the fact you left my question unanswered made me conclude you were the moderator here.

Second, there were some ofensive statements by a member of the Russian section at me and my city. You, as I learn now, moderator of Russia section, did less than noting to prevent that, nevermind WARN, as you did with a EE member!? Don't you think it's a BIT confusive...for example, I, as a new member, got really confused of the erratic manner you did your job and understood nothing about who's doing what and where.

Third, my comments at Moscow and Ruslan came only AFTER a member of the Russia section did some very offensive statements at my city first (did NOT retort on that!) and then directly at me (which I did retort at!) and did that not because I was poised to offend people,as I see some are doing here, but just to SHOW WHERE THAT LEADS AND HOW EASY IS TO OFFEND PEOPLE:

Bucharest was once called Gypsyrest and then I was called a Gypsy...by Ruslan...without even trying to offend him...I take he was pretty pissed off today, but I don't have to take that from him.

So, can I ask whether the statements above fit the forum's rules?

If not, what will be the sanctions for Ruslan?

If yes, can I start doing what Ruslan did for the whole time, just becose it's legal here?

I have not subscribed here to offend people, but to learn about other places and people. And I NEVER offended people just for the sake of that, but in retort to other people offending me or something that relates to me. And I do not have to take that. Anyway, I just do not understand why some people aim just at hitting at other peoples or countries on this forum?

And I would like to repeat myself I am not Russophobic, although already stated I was not, and I'll still not be, irrespective of what's going on here. Russia has its pluses and minuses, great minds, and cities, but also dramatic aspects, like Romania and any other country on this planet. However, if we throw prejudices and offenses at other countries and peoples, do nothing but shit at each other until we turn into the very things we through as offenses at each other.

Finally, as I said, I came here to learn and share knowledge with people from places I've never been to and probably will never be to. That's the beauty of SSC. I can always leave, if I am convinced that I cannot learn something good, but only take the frustrations or prejudices of people from places I'd like to learn of. And hopefully, I am to learn something good about those places, and not bad, because I then leave with that conclusion, which may be a prejudice, but first impression matters most and it's difficult to repair.

This is the rule I like most:

Remember, many different people from many different cultures are present here together. Please be respectful of your fellow members, as it is this cooporation among so many that allows Skyscrapercity to thrive.

This will be my last post on this matter. However, I'd be glad if someone posted the rules on the SSC. Thanks. :cheers:

^^This is the only Rules thing I've found in the european forum:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=179332
Its in the DLM.
Though obsolete info from some POVs,but still:

10: Who should I contact in case of problem? About most of the sections, you should PM me De Snor, Singidunum, 3tmk or Sergei. If you have a problem in a local forum, please PM the local moderator first.
--The Eastern Europe forum has 4 moderators, 3tmk, Sergei, Stevan and Singidunum.
--The Russian one has Coth
--The Italian one has Genius Loci
--The German forum has Dubai_Lover and Jai_C.
--The Greek forum has Konstantinoupolis
--For the Belgian one, De Snor is the mod you need.
--For the Portuguese one, the moderators are Vapour and Marco Bruno.
--For the Turkish forum, Allan will take care of the issues there.
--For the Alpe-Adria Forum, edolen1 you should contact.

Stop spamming this thread with country vs. country garbage.

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS is no longer mod.

^^This is the only Rules thing I've found in the european forum:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=179332
Its in the DLM.
Though obsolete info from some POVs,but still:

10: Who should I contact in case of problem? About most of the sections, you should PM me De Snor, Singidunum, 3tmk or Sergei. If you have a problem in a local forum, please PM the local moderator first.
--The Eastern Europe forum has 4 moderators, 3tmk, Sergei, Stevan and Singidunum.
--The Russian one has Coth
--The Italian one has Genius Loci
--The German forum has Dubai_Lover and Jai_C.
--The Greek forum has Konstantinoupolis
--For the Belgian one, De Snor is the mod you need.
--For the Portuguese one, the moderators are Vapour and Marco Bruno.
--For the Turkish forum, Allan will take care of the issues there.
--For the Alpe-Adria Forum, edolen1 you should contact.

Thanks, RawLee...gosh, I see now some of us (including me) broke a lot of rules here...I should be already banned :lol:

15. Attacks on religions will be answered to[...]
What?! But they belive in stupid stories with angels and shit.:ohno::lol:

09. No excessive swearing
Damn! Did that already.:ohno: Oops... I did it again.:hahano:

Stop spamming this thread with country vs. country garbage.

You know you like it.

Panslavism sucks
___________________________________________________________________

Of course it does. It's better to be treated as untermenschen by Germanic people, right? :okay:

Panslavism sucks
___________________________________________________________________

Of course it does. It's better to be treated as untermenschen by Germanic people, right? :okay:

No, panslavism is very possible. Its just that some of our brothers have been brainwashed by false religions and ideologies.

Well, OK. You have Slavs speaking completely different languages (eg. Chechz and Russian). You have Slavs writing in different alphabets. You have Slavs having different religions. You have Slavs mixed with different people. Leave alone the nations and politics. And given all that, Slavs will never be a unified whole. And BTW there were 2 examples of pan-slavic unions that failed - Jugoslavia and the Warsaw Pact. Sorry but I think pan-slavism is just a romantic utopia :)

Panslavism sucks
___________________________________________________________________

Of course it does. It's better to be treated as untermenschen by Germanic people, right? :okay:


If you are to be treated as untermenschen by anyone, I don't think panslavism would help in any way.

Thanks, RawLee...gosh, I see now some of us (including me) broke a lot of rules here...I should be already banned :lol:

The european forum is "liberal",at least in DLM. I dont think many of these rules are that severe. I think most of the rules are set for those whom for those rules are not evident:
"07: Show some respect for sad events: it's not decent to start arguing on events like extermination camps for example."
But the best one of the rules is this:
"15: Please, do not argue against the presence of Turkey on this forum.".
:lol:

Le Clerk, as well as everyone else, can you simply stop flaming, spamming and flooding and conclude what are you complaining about by a private message. This is a thread about city budgets, not about rules or economies, or level of life, or for bashing flaming.

BGRS, I was talking about respect and cultural values, not about some utopian Great Eastern European Empire or any BS like that. Yugoslavia was a dumb experiment from which we'll be recovering for decades to come. But, I believe you'll agree with me when I state that there is a certain notion among many Slavs how everything "western" (why not say Anglo-American or German) is somehow better and superior than anything Slavs can offer.

^^ I think that's a dumb way of percepting reality. Those people should think about what they can improve and work on it instead of falling into inferiority complexes and such.

Bump.

Kyiv budget for 2008 will be around ~$4.04 billion, 2.81 billion EUR.

Zagreb budget for 2008 is 1 billion EUR if you can thrust newspapers.
The city's population in 2001 was 779,145 (1.1 million in the metropolitan area)
7,4 KN - 1 EUR

http://www.jutarnji.hr/zagreb/clanak/art-2007,12,20,zagreb_skupstina,102516.jl

Prague budget 2008
1 698 028 000 euro
population 1 204 897 citizens
1409euro/person


Brno budget 2008
375 000 000 euro
population 367 183 citizens
1021euro/person

A few Bulgarian cities budgets



Municipality of Sofia 2008 /Largest in BG, 1.35 m inh./ - over BGN 800 mln. ~ EUR 400 mln.
http://econ.bg/news86023/article130962.html


Municipality of Rousse 2007 /5-th largest in BG, 185 k. inh./ - over BGN 77 mln. ~ EUR 36.5 mln
http://www.ruse-bg.eu/index.php?showfile=1&fid=34&p=downloads&area=1&categ=5


Municipality of Stara Zagora 2007 /6-th largest in BG, 175 k inh. / - over BGN 83 mln. ~ EUR 41.5 mln
http://city.starazagora.net/modules/documents/file.php?fid=57


Municipality of Pleven 2007 /7-th largest in BG, 140 k inh./ - over BGN 61 mln. ~ EUR 30.5 mln
http://www.pleven.bg/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=487&Itemid=45


Municipality of Vidin 2007 /75k inh. /- over BGN 29 mln. ~ EUR 14.5 mln
http://vidin.bg/content/docs/budg2007.doc


In conclusion I can say that Sofia is a very poor municipality if compare to other Bulgarian municipalities. I don`t know why... :ohno:

Can somebody find the budgets of other BG cities, cause I`m very interested of that?

Is it just me or these budgets are lower than those of similarly sized cities in the Balkans? Does anyone care to explain?

^^ Those are project-budgets only. The real figures are often very different. At the end of the fiscal year we will see the real figures. BTW, I highly doubt what the Sofia's budget 2008 will be those mentioned in the article. It all depends on a couple of laws the government will/will not pass. But until there's real decentralization, the city budgets will be very low. It all began with Kostov when there was financial crisis and noone bothered to change it for 7 years, those stupid bastards like centralization, it's soooo nice to redistribute lots of money. 40% of the Bulgarian GDP is still redistributed by the state, that's absurd for any EU member :(

What I mean is that they don't include any issued loans and/or loan payments. They are calculated at the end of year, sometimes at the end of H1 AFAIK.

Budapest will have 443billion HUF(1,74billionEUR) income in 2008+the city wants to squeeze an extra 100billion HUF(0,39billion EUR) out of city property.

Bump.

Kyiv budget for 2008 will be around ~$4.04 billion, 2.81 billion EUR.

Do you have the yearly growth of the city budget from 2000 to 2008? Would be interesting. I remember it was just $1.5 billion recently.

EDIT: Correction! I was obviously mislead with prelimineray figures for the Kyiv budget for 2008! The new figures are as follows:

24.88 billion UAH / 4.92 billion USD / 3.42 billion EUR.

I will try to find historical figures and post them here ASAP.

$5 billion is pretty good, but there's just so much to do, it's still not going to be enough for everything

I found some interesting figures, I personally think they're hillarious, and how much has changed since then:

Kyiv budget by year:

2001: 3.87 billion UAH / 765 million USD / 532 million EUR

2002: 4.33 billion UAH / 856 million USD / 596 million EUR

2003: 3.18 billion UAH / 629 million USD / 438 million EUR

2004: 3.65 billion UAH / 722 million USD / 503 million EUR

2005: 4.3 billion UAH / 850 million USD / 592 million EUR

2006: 6.98 billion UAH / 1.38 billion USD / 961 million EUR

2007: 13.46 billion UAH / 2.66 billion USD / 1.85 billion EUR

2008: 24.88 billion UAH / 4.92 billion USD / 3.42 billion EUR.

Over the last 4 years the budget has grown by over 80% each year.

Talk about change :laugh:

Swell, the metamorphoses is rapid.

2009 - 8 billion USD
2010 - 16 billion USD
2011 - 30 billion USD
2012 - 70 billion USD

:D

Some initial/proposed budgets for cities in Serbia & Montenegro - they're usually finalized sometime during the next year.


Montenegro:

-Podgorica - 92 million euros
-Budva - 80 million euros
-Bar - 61 million euros
-Niksic - 33 million euros
-Kotor - 15 million euros

Serbia:
-Belgrade (city budet of 66.3 billion dinars + municipal level budget of 9.4 billion dinars) = 76 billlion dinars or roughly one billion euros
-Novi Sad - 14.5 billion dinars or 182 million euros

I found some interesting figures, I personally think they're hillarious, and how much has changed since then:

Kyiv budget by year:

2001: 3.87 billion UAH / 765 million USD / 532 million EUR

2002: 4.33 billion UAH / 856 million USD / 596 million EUR

2003: 3.18 billion UAH / 629 million USD / 438 million EUR

2004: 3.65 billion UAH / 722 million USD / 503 million EUR

2005: 4.3 billion UAH / 850 million USD / 592 million EUR

2006: 6.98 billion UAH / 1.38 billion USD / 961 million EUR

2007: 13.46 billion UAH / 2.66 billion USD / 1.85 billion EUR

2008: 24.88 billion UAH / 4.92 billion USD / 3.42 billion EUR.

Over the last 4 years the budget has grown by over 80% each year.

Talk about change :laugh:


What happened since 2005? It appears that the budget kept doubling every year since then.

We will never know... :laugh:

We will never know... :laugh:

There must be an answer. What is the main driver of revenues for the Kiev municipality? Land taxation/real estate taxation? Was there a major wave of investment? Tax hikes?

I know from my personal experience there's a wave of real estate investment in Kiev, much larger even than Bucharest (some of it going through Bucharest located foreign funds).

Main funds come in through personal, corporate, and land fees BUT here is the biggest problem. As you may or may not know, Ukraine's tax code system is voted world's 2nd worst! :bash: This is actually funny because we're getting more and more taxes every year collected, for the 10 months the city collected 45% more personal taxes, 21% more corporate, and 28% for land use. But imagine when tax reform will be instituted, and it will be very soon, how much more dough we're going to get! It will be very interesting to watch for the next couple of years.

And true there is a large wave for real estate, but the financial sector still gets the majority in Kyiv and in Ukraine in general.

Approved budget for Chisinau for 2008: ~100 million EURO.

Approved budget for Chisinau for 2008: ~100 million EURO.

Do you know how much was the budget in the last few years ?

There must be an answer. What is the main driver of revenues for the Kiev municipality? Land taxation/real estate taxation? Was there a major wave of investment? Tax hikes?

I know from my personal experience there's a wave of real estate investment in Kiev, much larger even than Bucharest (some of it going through Bucharest located foreign funds).


Property and land prices started to rise. For example, last year Kyiv sold the biggest land plot for about 200 mln USD, it like budget for medium sized city. Also investments started to grow rapidly. This year Kyiv got more then 1.5 bln USD foreign property investments alone (for example, company which has built Parus and now building Esplanda sold 51% of share for about 500-600 mln USD to Sweden investment fund Heritage property). Next year this figure will double. Also more and more foreign companies entering market as well.

^^

Can I give you one advice?

Don`t sell anything before entering the EU! In other case you will regret too much!

Your country will be about to enter the EU in less than 15 years IMO. Then the prices will be at least quaded only in a year!

Don`t make my mistake! I sold land near Sofia Airport in the end of 2000 for 22 USD/ sq. m. and now it is over 700 EUR/ sq. m. I lost millions of Euro!!!

exactly If I had known that apartment prices rise so much I would have bought a flat and sold it with a huge profit right now.

^^

Can I give you one advice?

Don`t sell anything before entering the EU! In other case you will regret too much!

Your country will be about to enter the EU in less than 15 years IMO. Then prices will be at least quaded only in a year!

Don`t make my mistake! I sold land near Sofia Airport in the end of 2000 for 22 USD/ sq. m. and now it is over 700 EUR/ sq. m. I lost millions of Euro!!!

Why not, if property prices are among the highest in Europe. Offices and retail rent are one of the highest in Europe as well, for example 1 sq. m of retail space for rent costs 200 USD per year, then in rest of Europe is only about 50-60 USD per sq.m. Same for office renting. Regarding land prices the same situation here as well. The price you indicate it's a joke for Kyiv. In some areas one sq.m can cost up 10 000 USD!!! The resent record was broken then company bought plot in central part of Kyiv for 20 mln USD for 1 hectare !!!. So why wait for EU. By the time Ukraine joint EU, I hope it will be one of the biggest economy in the region :)
I think it’s little bit different situation in Ukraine. For example, in Bulgaria everyone knew that you will joint EU sooner or later but within reasonable timescale and EU promised you that. In Ukraine its different, no one promised us anything yet, and as war as situation developing I don’t think Ukraine will joint EU let say in 5 years or even 10 years. Yes, may be in 15 years. So why wait almost 1,5 decade of century for some uncertain income you can get, it’s better to do business right now and right here.
I used to be very pro-EU, but not anymore. If EU doesn’t want us, fine. The only thing we need from EU it’s free trade (which has been promised to us anyway, after we will joint WTO) and travel without visa, but this can be achieved without joining EU. So now we have to wait and develop economy ourselves without any help and wait till EU come to us themselves and ask us to joint and then we might think.
:)

Zagreb budget for 2008 is 1 billion EUR if you can thrust newspapers.
The city's population in 2001 was 779,145 (1.1 million in the metropolitan area)
7,4 KN - 1 EUR

http://www.jutarnji.hr/zagreb/clanak/art-2007,12,20,zagreb_skupstina,102516.jl

Actually budget might be much bigger, proposal for 1.5 billion Euro budget was put, but most likely 1.2 billion budget (8.8 billion Kuna) will be accepted.

Politicians where saying how 2007 budget can't be same for 2008, to little money for politicians pays, i guess. lol :) :D

20 mln USD for 1 hectare is about 2000 USD per square meter which is not at all high for a plot in the central part of a large city. Certainly the prices will go higher than that and that record will be broken soon :)

20 mln USD for 1 hectare is about 2000 USD per square meter

It`s even very cheap!!! In downtown Sofia prices are about 4000 Euro per sq. meter and prices will contunue to grow up in the next 2008 with expected 35% up!

WTO doesn`t give duty free market to Ukrain just free trade market.

It`s almost nothing actually! :ohno:

20 mln USD for 1 hectare is about 2000 USD per square meter which is not at all high for a plot in the central part of a large city. Certainly the prices will go higher than that and that record will be broken soon :)
Yes, you right. But some plots , mostly to build private cottages like this in central parts can cost up to 10 000 USD per sq.m. Usually plots for such cottages are between 100-150 sq.m. and cost up to 1,5 mln.
http://pics.livejournal.com/oldtortila/pic/0009hkd0/s640x480
Or cottages like this, which belongs to Syrian consul by the way :)
http://pics.livejournal.com/oldtortila/pic/0009rra3/s640x480

Kiev has a lot of potential, Ukraine as well!

So, don`t sell anything yet!

According to http://imot.bg/ in Sofia commie blocks neighbourhood Zone B-5 the AVARAGE square meter of land price is 6734 Euro!!!

Actually right now is the perfect time to sell in Kyiv, because prices are one of the highest in Europe and will probably start dropping in a couple of years.

Can't believe that! B-5 is awful district :(

Yeah, it could be real shit but it`s expensive anyway! :lol:

Its location is good, near downtown, but all those commie highrises are disgusting. And there is a methadone center there and the neighbourhood is full of heroin addicts, ugh!

The most interesting for Zone B-5 I know is that the number of the planned floors of all highrises there were doubled when they were almost built to about 11-th floor.

Actually, they have been doubled after Todor Zhivkov`s visitation to Moscow where he has been very impressed of the highrised district commies! :lol:

I even can`t imagine what would happen in a quake! :ohno::ohno:





:)

I think all of you need to realize that this "boom" is fueled by a huge demand/low supply, and by speculators. Once that "bubble" bursts, all hell breaks loose. The real estate market is due for a correction in the majority of EE countries.

By the way, some land prices are completely ridiculous. A recent article was published on Dnipropetrovsk, where a square meter in the centre of the city goes for $5,000 starting, and in best places reaches $25,000 per square meter! Ridiculous!

If it is about retail space, it's not strange.

Property and land prices started to rise. For example, last year Kyiv sold the biggest land plot for about 200 mln USD, it like budget for medium sized city. Also investments started to grow rapidly. This year Kyiv got more then 1.5 bln USD foreign property investments alone (for example, company which has built Parus and now building Esplanda sold 51% of share for about 500-600 mln USD to Sweden investment fund Heritage property). Next year this figure will double. Also more and more foreign companies entering market as well.

1.5 BILION (foreign) investment in real estate is not much at all for a city like Kyiv. I bet it's a lot more than that which drives the budget up. Anyway, I also think this is just the begining of real estate investments in Kyiv. The city is just a goldmine for real estate businesses.

How much is the tax on land transfer in Ukraine? Here is 16%.

Do you know how much was the budget in the last few years ?

Only for 2007: ~ 80 million EURO

Le Clerk Sorry, could find any data about how much the tax on land transfer in Ukraine. Land tax is about 0.5% of the land value per year.

Le Clerk Sorry, could find any data about how much the tax on land transfer in Ukraine. Land tax is about 0.5% of the land value per year.

Thanks, but I was asking about the tax for transactions. Like when someone/some company sells a piece of land. :cheers:

Proposed budget for Sibiu for 2008: 110 million EURO.

Thanks, but I was asking about the tax for transactions. Like when someone/some company sells a piece of land. :cheers:

1% from the negotiated price and only anything over 100 sq. m. For example if you sell an apartment 150 sq. m. you only pay tax on the 50 m.

If you sell land- 5% from negotiated price.

Commercial, unfinished construction, 2 and more transactions with land per year- all 5% tax.

1% from the negotiated price and only anything over 100 sq. m. For example if you sell an apartment 150 sq. m. you only pay tax on the 50 m.

If you sell land- 5% from negotiated price.

Commercial, unfinished construction, 2 and more transactions with land per year- all 5% tax.

Gee, 5% is very little for land transactions....does Ukraine have a flat tax and what is that?...if it does then I bet that's a lot over 5%...and at some point in time (in the next years) I bet Ukraine will bring the tax for land transations up to the flat tax which means a huge addition to the local/central budgets. :)

Just as I was afraid....Kiev's bloated budget apparantly comes at the expense of other Ukrainian cities, such as Lviv in this case.

Its 2008 budget will ammount to about 202 million euros, comparable to Serbia's Novi Sad. Only Lviv has more than twice the population:|



Львів має бюджет-2008: по 1 800 грн на мешканця
Січень
10
200818:40
Львівська міська рада сьогодні, 10 січня, ухвалила бюджет Львова на 2008 рік з дохідною частиною – 1 млрд 515 млн 948,7 тис. грн. За даними сайту Львівської міської ради, у Львові постійно проживає 830 тис мешканців, отож, виходить 1 826 грн на львівську душу.

Після консультацій міського голови Львова Андрія Садового із головами фракцій, яка тривала близько години замість запланованих 15 хвилин, бюджет підтримали 77 депутатів.



Отож, загальний обсяг доходів міського бюджету Львова на 2008 рік становить 1 515 948, 7 тис. грн, видатки – 1 582 386,7 тис. грн. Доходи Львова без врахування міжбюджетних трансфертів становлять – 1222450 (загальний фонд – 974 407,2 тис. грн, спеціальний фонд –248 043,5 тис. грн).



Водночас слід додати, що в проекті ухвали подано саме цифру 1 млрд 515 млн 948, 7 тис. грн, а у додатку, на який є покликання у цій ухвалі вказана цифра 1 млрд 259 млн 069,3 тис. грн.(У таблицю до переліку субвенцій чомусь не увійшла субвенція з Держбюджету України на соціальний захист населення на 256 млн 879,4 тис. грн).

Sarajevo budget for 2008 is 849.900.000 KM=424.950.000 EURO

Yes, the situation with regional budgets is a catastrophe. :ohno:

Kyiv budget is larger than the regional budgets on average by about 5-6 times! Generally all the money flows from the regions to Kyiv and then to the state :ohno:

Ivano Frankivs'k budget is around 71 million euros, that's around 348 euros per citizen.

The situation is terrible :ohno:

Some initial/proposed budgets for cities in Serbia & Montenegro - they're usually finalized sometime during the next year.

Montenegro:

-Podgorica - 92 million euros
-Budva - 80 million euros
-Bar - 61 million euros
-Niksic - 33 million euros
-Kotor - 15 million euros

Serbia:
-Belgrade (city budet of 66.3 billion dinars + municipal level budget of 9.4 billion dinars) = 76 billlion dinars or roughly one billion euros
-Novi Sad - 14.5 billion dinars or 182 million euros

Have u got any infomation about Nis?

What is the difference between "city budget" and "municipal level" one? I'm asking because here it seems we have only municipal budgets and the rest are some state projects that have no strict fiscal frames and noone calculates them at city level really...unfortunately..

Don't listen to the provincials ;) the money flows from Kyiv into the regions, vast majority of all the taxes in the country come from the city of Kyiv and then the regions where production are microscopic in relation to the capital feed off of it. It's only natural that Kyivan budget is that much bigger than Lviv's.

It' something wrong with Lviv budget, for example city budget of Chernivtsi in Ukraine, population less then 200 000 citizens will be around 100 mln USD for 2008 (http://www.domik.net/mod/main/news/dcx73/cat12156/id171314391/), it's not that bad :)

Budget for Galati city (SE Romania) ~ 110 million EURO.

del

More budget approvals:

Ivano Frankivs'k: 104.6 million USD
Odessa: 411.3 million USD
Dnipropetrovs'k: 316.8 million USD
Zaporizhia: 377.9 million USD

^^ I thought Dnipro's budget gonna be up there with a billion

Kyiv eats all budgets :ohno:

Kyiv feeds you all, ungrateful provincials :ohno:

Pennies in funding is not food :ohno:

Gdansk - 460 000 citizens, budget for 2008 (excluding UE funds) is 1.799.724.955 PLN
2.46 zloty =1$ so Gdansk's budget is 731 million USD

data from www.gdansk.pl

More budget approvals:

Ivano Frankivs'k: 104.6 million USD
Odessa: 411.3 million USD
Dnipropetrovs'k: 316.8 million USD
Zaporizhia: 377.9 million USD
How come Zaporizhia has bigger budget then Dnipropetrovsk, something wrong here :ohno:

More budget approvals:

Ivano Frankivs'k: 104.6 million USD
Odessa: 411.3 million USD
Dnipropetrovs'k: 316.8 million USD
Zaporizhia: 377.9 million USD

These are indeed really low, you need a local govenment reform with such a disproportion compared to Kyiv.

Wroclaw have pretty nice budget for 2008
630 inhabitants - 3.237.000.000 PLN = 1,3 billion $
+ EU money, and they want take also long-term credit :nuts:

http://www.prw.pl/articles/view/3337/budzet-wroclawia-ponad-trzy-miliardy-zlotych
http://www.wroclaw.pl/m87178/p87179.aspx?select=bud%C5%BCet

1 USD = 2,4782 PLN (18 I 2008)
Warsaw City 1,703 ,000 11 ,3 bln PLN - 4, 575 bln $
Krakow City 755 000 3,2bln bln PLN - 1,3 bln $
Wroclaw City 635 000 3,23 bln PLN- 1,307bln $
Gdansk,Gdynia,Sopot- 751 000 (Tricity)- 3,1 bln PLN 1,255 bln$
Poznan City 570 000 - 2,47 bln PLN- 1 bln $
Lodz City 755 000 2,4 bln PLN- 972 million USD
Szczecin City 410 000 1,422 blnPLN 576 million USD
Katowice City 314 500 1, 3 bln PLN- 527 million USD
Katowice Agglomeration,Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union,2.1 million (2,007)1,304 km² 3-4 bln $

Well, OK. You have Slavs speaking completely different languages (eg. Chechz and Russian). You have Slavs writing in different alphabets. You have Slavs having different religions. You have Slavs mixed with different people. Leave alone the nations and politics. And given all that, Slavs will never be a unified whole. And BTW there were 2 examples of pan-slavic unions that failed - Jugoslavia and the Warsaw Pact. Sorry but I think pan-slavism is just a romantic utopia :)

Yeah but at least Yugoslavia was a good country in those 40-50 years. You, as a kid that didn't see Yugoslavia in the older times, can't speak about that failure. The failure is not by the Yugoslavs and I think that most of the forumers, except American, knows what and why it happened. ;)

Yeah but at least Yugoslavia was a good country in those 40-50 years. You, as a kid that didn't see Yugoslavia in the older times, can't speak about that failure. The failure is not by the Yugoslavs and I think that most of the forumers, except American, knows what and why it happened. ;)

Yugoslavia was not a result of panslavism, but rather the result of the Soviet Empire sticking its will on several nations. Panslavism with Russia as a driver will never work because Russia always fucked up other 'slavic' countries. Just to give you some relevant examples: Poland (Ribbentropp-Molotov pact which slashed Poland in 2 pieces, AND seized Bessarabia from Romania), Czechia (Prague spring killed by Russian tanks). Russia was always a country that looked after its own interests and not after other countries' interests (be them Slavic or Orthodox). I remember that Russia, when asked for Romania's army help to drive Ottomans out of the Balkan peninsula in the 1877 Balkanic war (when Bulgaria was freed from Ottoman occupation), the Romanians accepted to help the Russian army (and Bulgaria indirectly), the Ottomans were defeted, included by the spil of Romanian blood. And what happened afterwards? The Russian army, on its way back to Russia, made a stop in Dobrogea thinking they could seize it just like that, irrespective of the fact that Romanians helped them defeating the Ottomans. The Romanian army then went a bit closer to the Russian army to 'convince' them leave home to their loved ones. And, indeed, the Russian army left, but only whhen the Romanian army started getting closer to them.

The moral: 'Russia will never be grateful for helping it', or 'Never trust Russia!'

It was announced today that EUR 443.6 mln is the municipality budget of Sofia'08

Cluj-Napoca, Romania's 3-rd largest city (population about 310.000), has a budget of 220 million EURO.

The moral: 'Russia will never be grateful for helping it', or 'Never trust Russia!'

the same moral can be derived from historic relations between pretty much any nations. What happened decades and centuries ago should not be the basis for future relations between states imho

the same moral can be derived from historic relations between pretty much any nations. What happened decades and centuries ago should not be the basis for future relations between states imho

Very true ... but is Russia very open nowadays? This EE-against Moscow will stop only when both sides respect each other and become regional partners ... but IMO Russia, due to its size and power, will always act as ZA daddy ... and so small (in comparison to Russia) EE countries will find it hard to trust Moscow. Beside history taught them 'Never trust Russia!'

Yugoslavia was not a result of panslavism, but rather the result of the Soviet Empire sticking its will on several nations.

Yugoslavia was formed in 1918, so it obviously had nothing to do with the Soviet Union. The whole idea existed back in the 19th centuary etc but I heard a very logical theory(I'm not sure if it was a fact) that Yugoslavia like Czechoslovakia were created with a lot of support from France for purpose of creating big countries in the region to counter Austria and Hungary. Ever heard of "Small Entante" between Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Romania during the interwar period?

What is this need to seek for 1000s of false reasons why Yugoslavia existed? It was based on a noble idea to unite the South Slavic nations in a common state. The idea was abused several times by different regimes, ideologies etc... Eventually it failed at the end... Life goes on...
It's tiresome to hear all the new theories popping up every day in a bid to prove how Yugoslavia was artificial. Altering of history in the making...

Le Clerk - your "only one option - USA" as one of your compatrions said IMO never gave a shit about Romania and EE, and it won't be as well. Your only option is to uphold your interest in trading relations with Russia.

Le Clerk - your "only one option - USA" as one of your compatrions said IMO never gave a shit about Romania and EE, and it won't be as well. Your only option is to uphold your interest in trading relations with Russia.

USA is not Romania's only option, yet in terms of military alliances, USA is the only option like it is for Bulgaria. EE is important for USA...that's why they build military bases here....and I do not agree with my fellow countrymen's theory that USA would do nothing to defend EE countries in case they are attacked by anybody...there's already the lesson of the IInd WW appeasement.

A lot of Romanian companies tried to make business in Russia in the last decade, but it was very difficult to achieve that back then and many companies lost money by not being paid for the merchandising they were sshipping to Russia. So most of the companies left. At this moment, Romania is mostly oriented towards the EU and Arab markets. It's hard to get back to trading with Russia, where you need good political relationships, and Russia does not give that to you.

Should I remind you that Russia (actually these are Putin's ideas) supports Voronin's policies of Romania being an empire which should be fragmented....does it ring a bell....Molotov-Ribbentrop maybe?

Maybe that's why Putin/Russia are not very well viewed here... leaving aside history, which we still learn in great numbers in schools.

Russia still behaves like the big bear it has always been, but tries to attract other peoples with its business with energy....but Russia will never be able to be EU or US because it does not have the moral upperhand that the latter have: rule of law, democracy, protection of the little, aid for the poor ones etc.

^^ The later philosophical concepts appeared and have been applied in practice in WWorld. On the contrary … in Russia (and with their help in EEurope too), only Marxism (split from liberalism itself) pushed to extreme - resulting communism - has been popular.

I do not give a damn what direction Russia wants to take ... I know that I want for me and Romania to go the opposite way ... 100% EU/USA :cheers:

^^ the day will come when you guys will change your minds :D

^^ the day will come when you guys will change your minds :D

You need to be more explicit over there ^^

Budgets for Ukrainian cities for 2008:

City Name / Amount in UAH / Amount in USD.

Crimea- 2,230,000,000 / 441,584,158
Vinnycia- 770,300,000 / 152,534,653
Lutsk- 297,368,000 / 58,884,753
Dnipropetrovsk- 1,600,000,000 / 316,831,683
Donetsk- ?
Zhytomyr- 491,566,888 / 97,339,978
Uzhgorod- 225,915,000 / 44,735,644
Zaporizhzhya- 1,954,500,000 / 387,029,703
Ivano Frankivs'k- 528,246,000 / 104,603,168
Kyiv- 24,850,000,000 / 4,920,792,080
Kirovograd- 487,123,031 / 96,460,006
Luhansk- 551,700,000 / 109,247,525
L'viv- 1,580,000,000 / 312,871,287
Mykolaiv- 794,901,924 / 157,406,322
Odessa- 2,077,084,900 / 411,303,941
Poltava- 426,152,000 / 84,386,535
Rivne- ?
Sumy- 506,417,367 / 100,280,667
Ternopil- 421,400,000 / 83 445 545
Kharkiv- 2,400,000,000 / 475,247,525
Kherson- ?
Khmelnytskyj- ?
Cherkasy- ?
Chernivci- 514,600,000 / 101,900,990
Chernigiv- ?
Sevastopol'- ?

Complete shit :ohno:

^^I do not understand why you guys give figures in USD. We are not in the US here and it's difficult to think in USD. :ohno:

If I give in EUR it will be even less. The point is the budgets are complete shit, Kyiv eats everything, regions get leftovers, and have to beg for money. Law changes must be instituted immediately to change these discrepancies :ohno:

You need to be more explicit over there ^^

I mean your attitude towards Russia will improve, what did you think? :)

If I give in EUR it will be even less. The point is the budgets are complete shit, Kyiv eats everything, regions get leftovers, and have to beg for money. Law changes must be instituted immediately to change these discrepancies :ohno:

yeah, it seems like Kiev's budget is as big as all other cities' budgets combined :bash:

but for that big city like Kyiv, ~ 5 billion $ is ok, Kyiv eats but need this

^^I do not understand why you guys give figures in USD. We are not in the US here and it's difficult to think in USD. :ohno:

Right, but everything located to east of European Union does not use euro. USD is still globally very dominant.

I mean your attitude towards Russia will improve, what did you think? :)



^^ I just hope you'll prove right. :cheers:

^^I do not understand why you guys give figures in USD. We are not in the US here and it's difficult to think in USD. :ohno:

He also gave it in UAH. Nobody uses euro in Ukraine, dollars will still be much more important for the next 10 years.

Since the EU is becoming the world's largest economic power, I think EUR will eventually take over the USD. It is already prevalent in Northern Africa and Middle East.

Yeap, the world is more and more slipping to the EURO.

Yet, we should agree here in which currency we post city budgets. If you do not like the EURO, fine, we can use USD, but we should stick to a single currency, cause it won't make sense otherwise. :cheers:

^^ the day will come when you guys will change your minds :D

On a second thought, the first step in that direction is that Russia should disavow the Ribbentropp-Molotov agreement.

Then, it should restitute to Romania the national golden treasury which was deposited by Romania under German occupation to Russia as its wartime ally during the IWW and never returned :bash: (second treason after the 1877 Balkan war by Russia), which ammasses to several billion EURO now.

Third, it should stop supporting the morally hadicapped Voronin and his communist cronnies.


After all that, Russia will be more than welcome in Romania. :cheers:

On a second thought, the first step in that direction is that Russia should disavow the Ribbentropp-Molotov agreement.

Then, it should restitute to Romania the national golden treasury which was deposited by Romania under German occupation to Russia as its wartime ally during the IWW and never returned :bash: (second treason after the 1877 Balkan war by Russia), which ammasses to several billion EURO now.

Third, it should stop supporting the morally hadicapped Voronin and his communist cronnies.


After all that, Russia will be more than welcome in Romania. :cheers:

you demand too much, don't you think? By the way, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was denounced by the Supreme Soviet back in 1989

you demand too much, don't you think? By the way, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was denounced by the Supreme Soviet back in 1989

Well, then that's one step ahead. :cheers: for that! I didn't know it.

The other two issues are quite straightforward to me:

1. the treasure is something that belonged to Romania, which deposited it in Russia for protection from the German occupiers in 1918...Romania has never seen it back since. :bash:

2. Voronin claims the province of Moldova currently within Romanian borders belongs to Republic of Moldova and that Romania is an empire :bash::nuts:, and Putin backs up this position. It's like not recognizing the borders of a certain country. Do you think it's a sound basis for warm relations?

:cheers:

Banja Luka (200,000) budget about 85 Milion Euro :(

Well, then that's one step ahead. :cheers: for that! I didn't know it.

The other two issues are quite straightforward to me:

1. the treasure is something that belonged to Romania, which deposited it in Russia for protection from the German occupiers in 1918...Romania has never seen it back since. :bash:

2. Voronin claims the province of Moldova currently within Romanian borders belongs to Republic of Moldova and that Romania is an empire :bash::nuts:, and Putin backs up this position. It's like not recognizing the borders of a certain country. Do you think it's a sound basis for warm relations?

:cheers:

huh:eek:
After reading this post, I`ve the feeling that I`m watching the old film with new actors...

1.The national archieves of Bulgaria between 1878 and 1945 are being "preserved" in Russia for more than 6 decades and we still can`t take them back although it was expected that their return to Bulgaria will be part of the deal for SS.
Ofcourse the archieves don`t have the material value of a golden treasure but they are from national importance due to some historical controversies concerning not only Bulgaria.

2.When the Soviets occupied Bulgaria in 1944, one of their main ideas was the country to be devided into three smaller independant from each other states(Dobrudja, Thrace and Macedonia) which were intended later to join Jugoslavia.The paradox is that this was idea of ethnic Bulgarian(Russophile) who is considered today as the biggest traitor in our history.According to him, Bulgaria was one small empire consisted of three different nations(Macedonians, Thracians and Moesians) which have nothing common except of the language and therefore they should have been seperated from each other...Furthermore the fucking subhuman promissed Serbia and Russia our most valuable cultural inheritance:bash: which was collected by the Bulgarian army during the Second Balkan War and First World War and returned to Bulgaria.He even sent the relics of one of our most celebrated national heroes to Jugoslavia and was ready to give them even the relics of our most eminent saint:bash: which have been preserved for 10 centuries.Fortunately, he died in 1949 and the relations between Jugoslavia and Bulgaria worsened and we didn`t enter the federation.

^^ Pretty much a copied scenario. So, as I said, for Russia to be as credible as the EU or USA, it must start fixing up its past mistakes and current ones. :cheers:

ok, I am not getting something about those treasures and archieves. Does Russia actually have them? As I understood in Bulgarian case, it does and there are negotiations underway to return them. But what's with the Romanian gold?

ok, I am not getting something about those treasures and archieves. Does Russia actually have them? As I understood in Bulgarian case, it does and there are negotiations underway to return them. But what's with the Romanian gold?

Info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Treasure

^^ it seems there was a commision formed to discuss the matter but that did not go too far. I would however wonder what is left of the Romanian treasure after the Civil War, WWII, the collapse of the USSR and so on. A lot of Russian treasures were lost during that time too

^^ it seems there was a commision formed to discuss the matter but that did not go too far. I would however wonder what is left of the Romanian treasure after the Civil War, WWII, the collapse of the USSR and so on. A lot of Russian treasures were lost during that time too

^^ That's the argument of the Russian party for discontinuation of the talks recently. But my thinking is that if a company makes a deposit in a bank and the bank gets plundered, the bank still must pay back the deposit (plus the ussual interest). Leaving aside the interest, current Russia is the successor of the Russian state who was intrusted, as a war ally, by Romania, with its national treasure (mind you, about 42 train carriages full of GOLD, both in raw and art, as well as some national archives). USSR returned about 2 train carriages of gold, but never returned the rest.

I am not questioning Russia's good-faith when saying that it doesn't have the treasure anymore, but it should at least start doing some investigation on what really happened that the treasure was lost, and think about some compensation (even in equivalent like gas/oil supplies or even investments, both are good).

What I mean is that Russia is a very rich country now and wants to get back its former allies in some way. IMO, the first thing to do is demonstrate that Russia wants to heal the past wounds and treat the former allies as real partners, in a relationshipm based on mutual trust and rule of law.

Romanian politicians have the urge of starting another page with Russia, but they cannot engage in serious policies with Russia while the people look at Russia like a bully who always battered Romania (I am sorry, but that's how the averge Romanian looks at Russia), because they'd be politically dead on the spot. That is why I say it's up for Russia to make the first step ahead. :cheers:

The budget of my hometown of Ruse for 2008 is BGN 98.516.000. Which is equal to 50.521.025 EUR. The population is about 170.000.

Bratislava

budget 305 million EUR
population 425 000


Kosice

budget 92 million EUR
population 235 000


Presov

budget 47 million EUR
population 101 000



Zilina

budget 41 million EUR
population 85 425



Trnava

budget 41 million EUR
population 68 292



Trencin

budget 43 million EUR
population 56 750



Banska Bystica

budget 55 million EUR
population 79 670



Nitra

budget 50 million EUR
population 84 800

Prague
(Czech republic)


budget 2 000 million EUR
population 1 204 897

Grudziądz
(Poland)

- planed budget (2008) - 411.998.755,00 zł (113,5 million EUR)
- population - about 100 000

^^Actually Grudziądz population is only 85 000 today.