Brussels=??

[taboe]

As you may know, Belgium is divided in 3 parts: Flandres, Wallonia and Brussels-capital. Brussels, while (politically) one of the most important cities in europe, seems to suffer from a bit of an imageproblem. I wanna test if this is true and what the reasons are.
Please indicate the terms that you think of when you think of Brussels (multiple choice: you can pick more than one)

(oh, and I'm not interested in anyone's holidaypics from Brussels...)

[Justme]

Belgium has always had a weird reputation in Europe and I never really understood it. Many people seem to say that it is a boring country. I wonder how many of these people have actually been there, and what they found so boring about it.

I then ask myself, how can a country with more brands of beer per capita than any other can be considered boring?

I have only briefly visited Brussels, but spent more time in other parts of Belgium like ghent, Ostend and Antwerp and find the country to be fascinating and interesting.

Brussels itself feels like a far more important and bustling city than say Frankfurt. It has fascinating architecture, in particular the historical buildings and a real cosmopolitan feel. Belgium cities do tend to look a bit dirty though. Often many of the buildings are in real need of renovation, something which I expect in Southern Europe, but looks out of place in central or northern Europe.

But boring... never.

[staff]

Brussels, and Belgium as a whole, are great places. Very fascinating.

[FREKI]

Didn't get the best impression this summer - but okay in general I guess..

Some nice modern buildings there :)

[DiggerD21]

Boring, bureaucratic, grey, beer, small are the associations I have in the first moment. Only in the second thought I realise that it must be a very cosmopolitan city (and not that small) with all the EU-institutions and international lobbying groups, and embassies from all over the world. Unfortunately I haven't been to Belgium yet.

[taboe]

Boring, bureaucratic, grey, beer, small are the associations I have in the first moment.
Unfortunately I haven't been to Belgium yet.

that's what seems to be the problem: people who have been there seem to like it, but people who haven't been there still associate it with 'grey' and 'boring'...
I wonder when this started. Perhaps because we used to be an extremely catholic country, as opposed to our neighbours, the Dutch, who have the reputation of being openminded and cheerfull...

[LMCA1990]

Beautiful, culture, modern, historic, rich, bureaucratic and cosmopolitan.

[goschio]

Brussel is a nice city. Was really surprised.

[MARACUCHisimo]

gimme pics and i can help!

[Puinkabouter]

You can find pictures of Brussels in the Brussels section of the .be forum: click. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=628). Please, let's keep this a discussion topic, and not turn it into a photo topic. We want to know what people outside of Belgium think of our capital, and what their opinions and impressions are based on.

What we don't want is a series of 'oohs' an 'aahs' after a bunch of touristic holiday pics.

[MARACUCHisimo]

You can find pictures of Brussels in the Brussels section of the .be forum: click. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=628). Please, let's keep this a discussion topic, and not turn it into a photo topic. We want to know what people outside of Belgium think of our capital, and what their opinions and impressions are based on.

What we don't want is a series of 'oohs' an 'aahs' after a bunch of touristic holiday pics.

Yep I understand. Let me see those pics :D

[Plumber73]

Perhaps part of the problem is that the only news that comes out of Belgium is EU related. Belgium is totally overshadowed by France, Germany.... it's a small country in comparison. Being fascinating is great, but it doesn't make news like you get coming out of the bigger countries. So since people never hear about Belgium, they assume nothing really goes on there. Am I getting warm?

Oh, and I'd probably pick all the options except maybe the last two. :)

[MARACUCHisimo]

I completely agree with you Plumber73. It seems to be so nice and modern. But Belgium is like Romania, Hungary, Ukraine or Slovenia, no one knows what can you find there, but if you go there or see pictures like the ones that Fluimkabouter showed me, then you'll be so impressed.

[snot]

I know this is not a photo-section but because some people asked it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_5062.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_0826-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/PICT0249.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/Brussels045.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/Brussels004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/kampflamm2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/stadhuis1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/p-009160-00-68.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/436_bruxelles_schaerbeek_maison_-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/brussel22.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_5152.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_0775.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/000_0263.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_1075.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_0877.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/000_0238.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/15.jpg

[snot]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/100_0800.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/best/rogier_et_tour_dexia_rec_print.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/best/brussel17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/Bru29.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/468_bruxelles_schaerbeek_place_d-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/443_bruxelles_schaerbeek_avenue_-1.jpg

[Bahnsteig4]

I haven't been there yet, but, (when I can afford it again ;)), it's my next city trip.

I presume it's one of the most underrated cities in Europe, alongside Vienna, Dublin or Munich.

[Puinkabouter]

^^ they can take a look on the .be forum if they want to. Pictures are always deceiving, whether they show a beautiful or an ugly town - they just capture a moment, they don't necessarily show a city's reputation.

We do not want to know whether Brussels is regarded as a pretty city or not, we want to know more than that. Does it sound like a dull or a vivid place? Cosmopolitan or monocultural? Stuff like that. Pictures are necessarily selective and will only influence people to change their opinions before posting them to this topic. Therefore it's a dishonest thing to do (ie. posting nice-looking photos).

[city_thing]

Has Belgium formed a government yet? I read something a few weeks ago that said no real government had been formed since the last elections there.

Any news?

(btw - Brussels is a beautiful city)

[DiggerD21]

I presume it's one of the most underrated cities in Europe, alongside Vienna, Dublin or Munich.

I wouldn't call Munich an underrated city. After all it is the second-most visited city in Germany (after Berlin), with a lot of foreigners among them, and the Oktoberfest is known worldwide already.

[TeKnO_Lx]

i´ve benn but i was very young, and i don´t remember quite weel. but i liked alot the Grand Place and the sorround zones. it´s a very "green city" like Berlin i think

i think it´s one of the most underrated cities in Eurpe.. exactly b´cause those stupid stereothipes

[Slartibartfas]

I have never been to Brussels. Just drove through by train once. The trainstation the train stopped at looked pretty ugly. But I dont think this can be held in any way to be representative. I mean Vienna has lots of ugly railway stations as well.

I think it is a very contrast rich city, so definitely the opposite of boring. With morbidness next to modern shiny stuff.

It definitely has to be very cosmopolitan given the number of people from all over Europe who live and work there. (probably also a certain number of people from all over the world). If this might only limit itself to certain districts or not does not change it I think.

Furthermore and thats just a prejudice basing on stories I have heard, I think Brussels is a rather bureaucratic city that has to deal however with rather anarchistic people :)

[taboe]

I have never been to Brussels. Just drove through by train once. The trainstation the train stopped at looked pretty ugly.

indeed the Brussels train stations are a disgrace. I can imagine someone changing trains there doesn't feel the need to go and discover the city. Fortunately they are slowly being modernised and cleaned up, but there's still a long way to go...
In general, the lack of maintenance of the city and the total neglection of large parts (which leads to urban decay) may be one of the reasons Brussels has a 'grey', rundown image. Unfortunately, our capital does not always get the fundings it needs, largely due to the arguments between Flanders and Wallonia.

[taboe]

Perhaps part of the problem is that the only news that comes out of Belgium is EU related. Belgium is totally overshadowed by France, Germany.... it's a small country in comparison. Being fascinating is great, but it doesn't make news like you get coming out of the bigger countries. So since people never hear about Belgium, they assume nothing really goes on there. Am I getting warm?

Yes, indeed, the international media only picks up on the EU, when yet again a prisoner escapes or on our political turmoil.
The problem lies with ourselves as well, though. We've always been awfull at promoting our cities and country. The Netherlands, for example, is much more known around the world, despite that their country is hardly bigger and no more special...

[taboe]

Has Belgium formed a government yet? I read something a few weeks ago that said no real government had been formed since the last elections there.

Any news?


latest news: still no government after more than 160 days. It's completely locked, because either side (Flanders and Wallonia) refuses to stand down from their (ridiculous) election programme...

[wc eend]

The Netherlands, for example, is much more known around the world, despite that their country is hardly bigger and no more special...

That's very subjective, you can't just say it like that.

Anyway, i'm always wondering what's wrong with Belgian urban planning. Hardly any building seems to fit in its place. It makes Brussels fascinating and un-boring, but beautiful? no...

[Plumber73]

Yes, indeed, the international media only picks up on the EU, when yet again a prisoner escapes or on our political turmoil.
The problem lies with ourselves as well, though. We've always been awfull at promoting our cities and country. The Netherlands, for example, is much more known around the world, despite that their country is hardly bigger and no more special...For your interest, I recently saw an ad for the Wallonia region playing on the BBC World channel over hear. Lot's of opera singing involved. At least Belgium can take comfort that they're more well known than Luxembourg. ;)

Some people I know who've traveled over in Europe often pass through Belgium and Brussels. If they do stay, they're more interested in the smaller towns like Bruges. Paris, and to a lesser degree Amsterdam, probably suck up the bulk of tourist traffic. People may be asking, why would I want to go to Brussels when Paris has this and that... what would Brussels have that Paris doesn't? I'm just saying that's what people may be thinking.

[De Snor]

Brussels is to big for Belgium and to small for Europe

[Metropolitan]

what would Brussels have that Paris doesn't?The EU institutions.

Of course, it's not the best tourist attraction yet but it could become. Economically speaking, Brussels has a great potential.

[Deanb]

beer, grey, french, culinary delight...

well i never been there but that's how I imagine it...

on the other hand, it doesn't have anything that makes it unique - in comparison to capitals such as paris, london & rome...

atm, amsterdam interests me much more - hope it changes one day

[Plumber73]

The EU institutions.My point exactly. :)

[Slartibartfas]

The EU institutions.

Of course, it's not the best tourist attraction yet but it could become. Economically speaking, Brussels has a great potential.

Thats true.
I thought already that alone because of seeing them in person for once may be enough reason to make a journey to Brussels. But then, I have heard those buildings are as exciting as the general image of the EU would suggest.
Nonetheless I would be quite interested in seeing the European Parliaments interior for once for example.

But other things might be considerably more interesting for the average tourist for sure than the glas bunkers of the EU.

[Justme]

That's very subjective, you can't just say it like that.

Anyway, i'm always wondering what's wrong with Belgian urban planning. Hardly any building seems to fit in its place. It makes Brussels fascinating and un-boring, but beautiful? no...


This is definitely something I associate with Belgium. This country has had such a history of destroying beautiful old buildings and putting up some of the ugliest replacements imaginable. Just look at the Ostend architecture along the seascape and compare with an older photo.

[taboe]

on the other hand, it doesn't have anything that makes it unique - in comparison to capitals such as paris, london & rome...

atm, amsterdam interests me much more - hope it changes one day

it's a pity you feel that way, but I understand why...
It does have things that make it unique: Art Nouveau, atomium, some of the biggest 19th century buildings in the world, grand place (check todays banner),...

The EU institutions.

Of course, it's not the best tourist attraction yet but it could become. Economically speaking, Brussels has a great potential.

The EU isn't a very interesting tourist attraction, simply because most of the buildings are boring as hell... I hope the future will bring some more daring designs, but I'm rather sceptic.
Economically, Brussels is one of the richest cities in the world. A large part of the (migrant) population gets left behind however. This causes severe social issues, which may lead to situations like in Paris, if it doesn't change quickly.

[Jonesy55]

I think Brussels is a strange city. It is rich yet many of the old buildings look like they need to be repaired, It is very good for food and beer but does not seem to have the international reputation of for example Paris in this respect. It is an interesting city but the EU quarter can be boring and there are maybe not the number of 'must-see' attractions of some other European capitals. Last time I went, I got a cheap deal at a business hotel next to the EU HQ and the area was deserted all weekend. I think Brussels would offer a high quality of life for its citizens but it also seems to have crime problems, I know a couple of people who have been robbed there.

[schmidt]

OMG I could never believe Brussels was like that. I mean, I'd never imagine urban decay in Western Europe, that's like the last place in the world for that to happen. Also, ugly train stations, being boring and crime?! C'mon! For the pics I've seen from Brussels so far, the city looks REALLY amazing and that square on today's banner is simply gorgeous. You guys gotta be kidding, Brussels is on my top priority places to visit. I hope you're all wrong! :D

[Justme]

OMG I could never believe Brussels was like that. I mean, I'd never imagine urban decay in Western Europe, that's like the last place in the world for that to happen. Also, ugly train stations, being boring and crime?! C'mon! For the pics I've seen from Brussels so far, the city looks REALLY amazing and that square on today's banner is simply gorgeous. You guys gotta be kidding, Brussels is on my top priority places to visit. I hope you're all wrong! :D

Sorry, not wrong. Of all the wonderful things about Belgium, the buildings are still often decayed and rundown. It was the first thing I noticed when I visited there.

I don't know why Belgium is unique in this for Northern and Central Europe, but it is like an island of decay in this part of Europe. That aside, it is a great place. I do wish though that they looked after their buildings a bit more.

[Octoman]

I went to Brussells last year and really liked the place. I went the the preconception that it would be small, dull etc etc but found it to be the opposite. It felt lively and varied to me and felt like a large place.
I would recommend a visit to anyone.

[Minato ku]

OMG I could never believe Brussels was like that. I mean, I'd never imagine urban decay in Western Europe, that's like the last place in the world for that to happen. Also, ugly train stations, and crime?! ! :D

Don't be wrong, it is the same for London, Paris, Amsterdam, Milan, Madrid... :)

[taboe]

I don't know why Belgium is unique in this for Northern and Central Europe, but it is like an island of decay in this part of Europe.

now that's a bit exaggerated... I know Germany is way cleaner, more organised and well kept, but a lot of cities in say the UK or France suffer from the same problems (decaying buildings, poor urban planning,...).
That's no reason to deny we have a problem off course... I'm even a bit suprised 'dirty' doesn't get more votes in the poll.

[Octoman]

indeed the Brussels train stations are a disgrace. I can imagine someone changing trains there doesn't feel the need to go and discover the city. Fortunately they are slowly being modernised and cleaned up, but there's still a long way to go...


Actually, now you mention it the train station where the Eurostart arrived was pretty vile. We the walked to our hotel and passed through some fairly unsavoury areas. At that point we were beginning to worry about where we had come to.

I dont think that is unique to Brussels though. Passengers arriving in London St Pancras will find the surrounding area a bit of a shock. Same with arriving in Paris Gare Du Nord which is also in the middle of a dump.

I think Brussels has some rough edges - particular in the European Parliament area where some of the urban planning in almost criminal and I did notice on a tram ride we passed through some nasty spots but I didnt leave with the impression that the place was any more derelict that other major european cities I have visited (which is most of them).

[schmidt]

Don't be wrong, it is the same for London, Paris, Amsterdam, Milan, Madrid... :)

Yeah, well, train stations in Lisbon, Madrid and Rome are really just average, nothing special. But hm, when you stop to think, train stations aren't really the most important part of a city. :D

[Thermo]

but it is like an island of decay in this part of Europe.

Wow wow, hold it there!

"An island of decay"? Excuse me!? :ohno:


Brussels may not be the most beautiful city, but since when is Brussels a synonym for Belgium!?

How many Flemish cities have you already visited? Leuven, Antwerp, Ghent and Brugge are very beautiful cities. With Antwerp being the biggest Flemish city, it's one of the trendiest cities in Western Europe.

Leuven: very clean and modern city. Certainly not in decay!
http://www.star.uclan.ac.uk/~ku/wedding/small_085_11maa06_Leuven_GroteMarkt.jpg
http://www.citabella.nl/leuven/view30904.jpg
http://www.citabella.nl/leuven/view30956.jpg
http://www.citabella.nl/leuven/view30962.jpg

Antwerp
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4493/antwerpenpxg0.jpg
http://paola.erfgoed.net/portaal/images/grote%20markt.jpg

Ghent
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6719/ghentqi2.jpg

Brugge
http://wandelbloggers.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/brugge-editedkopie-medium.jpg

In decay... :ohno:

[taboe]

^^this is not the puropse of this thread.:ohno:
If you disagreed with that statement, you could have just said so. This thread is about Brussels, and more specific the image it has internationally. Since it's the capital, this image often reflects on the rest of Belgium. Our country clearly has a reputation (in some countries) of being poorly maintained and not very clean. This may not be 100% true, but that's what we're investigating, so please, stay on topic man!

Furhtermore, your pics are very subjective, I can prove the exact opposite of your point by showing pictures of the same cities...

[Thermo]

^^this is not the puropse of this thread.:ohno:
If you disagreed with that statement, you could have just said so. This thread is about Brussels, and more specific the image it has internationally. Since it's the capital, this image often reflects on the rest of Belgium. Our country clearly has a reputation (in some countries) of being poorly maintained and not very clean. This may not be 100% true, but that's what we're investigating, so please, stay on topic man!

Excuse me, mister moderator, but Justme was talking about 'Belgium' in general. So I think I'm allowed to answer him.

[Thermo]

Furhtermore, your pics are very subjective, I can prove the exact opposite of your point by showing pictures of the same cities...

You can find 'dirty' pictures of every single city on this planet, so what's your point? I just want to show that the citycenters of all major Flemish cities are well/better maintained - compared to Brussels. I often have the feeling in Brussels that the areas around the center are cleaner and better maintained than the (touristic) center itself.

[schmidt]

And now the Flemish vs Waloon fight begins. :D

[Slartibartfas]

^^ I'll get some popcorn.

But honestly, how does the financing of Brussels work? Does it have to rely on federal taxes it itself is not allowed to cash in?

Is the lack of maintenance people talk about here a consequence of bad politics or of a lack of money?

[snot]

^^ I'll get some popcorn.

But honestly, how does the financing of Brussels work? Does it have to rely on federal taxes it itself is not allowed to cash in?

Is the lack of maintenance people talk about here a consequence of bad politics or of a lack of money?

A lack of money, bad politics in the past, but since ´89 Brussels has a certain autonomy, from than the Capital region is better maintained. The city, only 161km² has still 19 independent municipalities, not very practic but it has some advantages.
Now Brussels is one of the 3 regions of the federal Belgian state. The financing of Brussels is a handicap for the city. It's the second richest European region after London in GDP. But because a lot of commuters are taking their wage to Wallonia and Flanders those are not taxed in Brussels. Brussels gets federal money, but not enough to compensate it. So Brussels produces a lot of wealth but don't get enough profit from it. Inside the Brussels Capital Region the unemployement rate is very high (20%) and poverty is a big problem. . Increasing rents are more and more chasing the middle classes to the suburbs in flanders and Wallonia leaving only the richest and poorest in the capital, making an unhealthy contrasted social mix.
Overall, last years politics are improving, despite the bad financing Brussels has a good financial public balance and the international institutions are giving the city a big vital injection. Neighbourhoods are renovated and gentrification is spreading around the city center. But poverty, crime and unemployement are still a big problem.

[snot]

Don't mind Thermo, he's working in the touristic branche and is a little sensitive for critics on Belgian cities, especially Antwerp.:lol:
I recoment him to take a good look on Astridplein, just in front of the magnificent Central Station to see the dirt. I think a german has reasons enough to say Belgian cities are sometimes 'dirty'. Of course most smaller flemish cities like Bruges or Leuven are very clean (and very boring;) )

[napolit]

Brussels is a city which has suffered a lot of problems like a lot of other cities around all europe. But at this moment it is improving very much and I think that it is the important, it is a city where quality of life is improving in the last years. Perhaps some districts arent "beautiful", but you should understand the social history of Brussels, it is a city with a lot of "worker" people, normal people who have work a lot of improve their lives and everybody should be happy of that. All big european cities have not beautiful districtis, actually big cities have got more "not special districts" than "historic, monumental districts". Anyway, it is a very historic city with beautiful places (and some magic place like the Grand Place)

About what I think about the city is that it is a very important city to understand the history of european culture (or whatever you can call that, european, occidental, ...).

[taboe]

Excuse me, mister moderator, but Justme was talking about 'Belgium' in general. So I think I'm allowed to answer him.

Did you even read my response? You're allowed to answer, but why on earth do you have to spam this thread with pics that are not at all relevant? And again: this isn't about facts, this is about the way Brussels (and Belgium) is viewed internationally.

You can find 'dirty' pictures of every single city on this planet, so what's your point? I just want to show that the citycenters of all major Flemish cities are well/better maintained - compared to Brussels.

That's just not true. Take it from someone who has lived in Antwerp his whole live, dirt and poorly kept streets and buildings are just a part of life here.

[De Snor]

This thread is completely ridiculous :
I looked at those who voted and most part never went to Brussels , their comments do come of what they hear & read.
They don't have an honest opinion, they don't know what they are talking about.

Close this thread , its worthless

[Lars13]

Take it from someone who has lived in Antwerp his whole live, dirt and poorly kept streets and buildings are just a part of life here.


You really know how to promote your city! :ohno:

[taboe]

This thread is completely ridiculous :
I looked at those who voted and most part never went to Brussels , their comments do come of what they hear & read.

Please Snor, read my first post: the whole point is to hear from people what they think off when they hear Brussels, to find out what reputation it has, and why..

(in Dutch: Snor, het ging er juist over op het Be-forum dat Brussel een slechte reputatie heeft in Vlaanderen. Ik wou eens onderzoeken of de internationale reputatie beter is. Ik ben niet geinteresseerd in wat toeristen van Brussel vinden, ik wil juist weten of het nog altijd de naam heeft 'saai' en 'grijs' te zijn en hoe dat komt...)

[taboe]

You really know how to promote your city! :ohno:

I love Antwerp, it's my favourite city in the world, but that doesn't mean it's perfect.

[Lars13]

I love Antwerp, it's my favourite city in the world, but that doesn't mean it's perfect.

Agreed, although it comes close to perfection... :nuts:

No, seriously, I think these kind of discussions amongst Belgians should take place in the Belgian section (I was lured into this one :)). Visitors might get a wrong impression.
But back on topic now! I think it's a good initiative to conduct this small survey. The fact that many tourists see Brussels (and Belgium) as a grey and dull place isn't that surprising considering our weather is mainly... grey and dull.

[snot]

^^

Then stop guys.

Only non Belgian posts please :lol:

[Thermo]

Don't mind Thermo

Pffff. Speel eens wat meer op de BAL, snot.

[LMCA1990]

The trolley is beautiful :drool:

[ZoT]

Don't mind Thermo, he's working in the touristic branche and is a little sensitive for critics on Belgian cities, especially Antwerp.:lol:
I recoment him to take a good look on Astridplein, just in front of the magnificent Central Station to see the dirt. I think a german has reasons enough to say Belgian cities are sometimes 'dirty'. Of course most smaller flemish cities like Bruges or Leuven are very clean (and very boring;) )
Leuven and Bruges boring? Yeah right, just like saying Brussels is boring as well:bash:

Btw, if there's one city in Europe that is not boring, then it's Brussels.

[Deanb]

Btw, if there's one city in Europe that is not boring, then it's Brussels.

why do u think so?

[ZoT]

^^Well saying that was to make clear Brussels is absolutely not boring. On the contrary! :)

[Slartibartfas]

A lack of money, bad politics in the past, but since ´89 Brussels has a certain autonomy, from than the Capital region is better maintained. The city, only 161km² has still 19 independent municipalities, not very practic but it has some advantages.
Now Brussels is one of the 3 regions of the federal Belgian state. The financing of Brussels is a handicap for the city. It's the second richest European region after London in GDP. But because a lot of commuters are taking their wage to Wallonia and Flanders those are not taxed in Brussels. Brussels gets federal money, but not enough to compensate it. So Brussels produces a lot of wealth but don't get enough profit from it. Inside the Brussels Capital Region the unemployement rate is very high (20%) and poverty is a big problem. . Increasing rents are more and more chasing the middle classes to the suburbs in flanders and Wallonia leaving only the richest and poorest in the capital, making an unhealthy contrasted social mix.
Overall, last years politics are improving, despite the bad financing Brussels has a good financial public balance and the international institutions are giving the city a big vital injection. Neighbourhoods are renovated and gentrification is spreading around the city center. But poverty, crime and unemployement are still a big problem.

Well, that sounds like it would go into the right direction at large.
Regarding the international aspect. Is it true that nearly 100.000 people who live in Brussels have directly or indirectly in one war or the other to do with the EU? I am not sure if this number is correct, but perhaps someone else knows more about it...

[Justme]

Wow wow, hold it there!

"An island of decay"? Excuse me!? :ohno:


Brussels may not be the most beautiful city, but since when is Brussels a synonym for Belgium!?

How many Flemish cities have you already visited? Leuven, Antwerp, Ghent and Brugge are very beautiful cities. With Antwerp being the biggest Flemish city, it's one of the trendiest cities in Western Europe.



Sorry, but it's my opinion. One of the first things I always notice when I visit Belgium is how run down so many buildings are. You can show photos of the nice buildings (which there are plenty) but they were still the minority of what is around. Compared to the rest of Central and Northern Europe, this is rather unique.

By the way, I have been to Belgium several times. Brussels, Ghent, Antwerp, Ostend and Liege

[Justme]

Excuse me, mister moderator, but Justme was talking about 'Belgium' in general. So I think I'm allowed to answer him.

Yes, Belgium in general, but Brussels as part of that country. In this case, this issue with rundown buildings is evident not only in Brussels, but in the whole of Belgium. It is not just a citywide issue, but a national one.

Let's be frank about this. This is my opinion, and nothing you can say will change this. You may think otherwise, and that's fine, but when I travel to Brussels and Belgium from Germany, I find it quite full of rundown buildings.

That said, I love the country (as I already said in my first post), so I am not putting this country or city down, just stating the facts of what I see here.

[ZoT]

Sorry, but it's my opinion. One of the first things I always notice when I visit Belgium is how run down so many buildings are. You can show photos of the nice buildings (which there are plenty) but they were still the minority of what is around. Compared to the rest of Central and Northern Europe, this is rather unique.

By the way, I have been to Belgium several times. Brussels, Ghent, Antwerp, Ostend and Liege
You had better visited Bruges then, instead of Ostend:)

[Thermo]

Btw, cities always look better when the sun shines: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=534182&highlight=Brussels

;)


They are now renovating the central trainstation. Because now, it's a disgrace. Hopefully it will be finished rapidly...

[Xelebes]

Boring but Beautiful is how I characterise Brussels.

[Avientu]

I agree with Justme here, when you travel from The Netherlands or Germany into Belgium the rundown thing is quite obvious, and the train stations in Brussels are just hideous. It's good that it is improving though and easier to understand after reading the posts from the belgian forumers.
I suppose people have just high expectations when they are visiting the country where the so-called capital of Europe is placed, and when you see the state of the old houses and some infrastructures it comes as quite of a shock... and Brussels is indeed worse on this than Brugges or Antwerp.

[staff]

Boring but Beautiful is how I characterise Brussels.
Really? I would characterize it completely the opposite.
Not very beautiful (except for the core of course) and sterile - but as for from boring as you can go.
Brussels and other Belgian cities such a Gent has extremely nightlife for example. I'd say that Brussels' nightlife would walk all over pretty much any city's in North America (except for some usual suspects of course).