miami305
Registered User

miami305's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Today: Miami, Florida..moving back to Europe (Paris) in the future.
Posts: 1,145


Remolino, I merely asked WHEN he was moving back. So how is that rude?

And as for the rest of your post, as usual, NOBODY knows what the hell you're jabbering about. LOL! You're such a card Remolino. Thinking, it's just not one of your strong suits huh? ...LOL. So WHEN are you coming back to the Puerto Rico forum? You always had us rolling over there with your rants and raves. Mainland still treating you good? I bet it is! Come on back, we miss you! :lol:

Oh my God.....same sh&^&** again......:ohno:


Where's the link to that list Remolino???

Why can't a person give an opinion? Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, only yours matters.

if thats really her wish...just another star on the flag...then she should advocade for that...name me one nation that has its federal capital as a territory and not as integrated part of the nation. Besides if were gonna be realistic and not ideologues DC is ligth years away from PR in the preparations for statehood....there really grossly over due. And thats not an opinon thats a fact...and you should know it.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgUxnF4vk7sXzztV7gWbae2P5maMrB7DRbf4-_edS3QsRIldvd

they pay more taxes percapita than any other state

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

let me get this straigth if i do it its rude and offensive... because is not in your general interest or side.... I did the same thing she or he did and pointed out something that sounded silly to me when i visit DC.

if thats really her wish...just another star on the flag...then she should advocade for that...name me one nation that has its federal capital as a territory and not as integrated part of the nation. Besides if were gonna be realistic and not ideologues DC is ligth years away from PR in the preparations for statehood....there really grossly over due. And thats not an opinon thats a fact...and you should know it.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgUxnF4vk7sXzztV7gWbae2P5maMrB7DRbf4-_edS3QsRIldvd

they pay more taxes percapita than any other state

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

let me get this straigth if i do it its rude and offensive... because is not in your general interest or side.... I did the same thing she or he did and pointed out something that sounded silly to me when i visit DC.

That's not what I was referring to...and YOU know that.

^^That was rude.


Seems the fanatical Pro-Statehooder is leaving out certain information like statistically speaking there are more killings in Puerto Rico then Mexico. People in the US have been going on and on about Mexico and its crime. But it seems someone forgot to tell the people in the US that Mexico does not even make the top 30 world crime list while PR. does. PR. this year is 19 on the list. So far around 917 killings and counting in PR. Thats 142 more then the same time last year. This includes 13 over the weekend. And do not forget that certain fed. officials have said that PR. has tended to become a Narco political state. And how the economy of PR. is worse then the Greek economy. And all this under his Statehood party. How wonderful, Not.

The list -



You see, No Mexico.

Source?

Each time the do not want to hear something is factual the rude fanatics get dirty mouthed. The funny thing is that the only ones they are kidding are themselves. :lol:

Source?

Do not trust me. Or do you want erase the source. :lol:

This mentions the killings, 917 killings so far.
Its in Spanish
http://www.elnuevodia.com/lasbalascobran13vidasenfindesemana-1101340.html

This on the ranking in Spanish -
Spanish - http://www.vocero.com/puerto-rico-es/ley-y-orden-es/puerto-rico-ocupa-el-lugar-19-en-ranking-mundial-de-asesinatos

List information source a UK. newspaper.

This on the sliding PR. economy. It is in english.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/06/14/am-obamas-visit-to-puerto-rico-is-about-politics-economics/

I think Remolino is a Latinamerican that's been living way too long in PR, maybe that's the reason he is how he is?

I don't even think he's in Puerto Rico, let alone puertorican. Imposter, wanna be, hater, take your pick.

http://stacysrandomthoughts.com/http://stacysrandomthoughts.com/wp-content/2010/11/HappyThanksgiving.jpg

What did I miss? I see my name was mentioned???? :lol:

Just want to wish you all a Very, Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy & Prosperous 2012!

http://2.fimagenes.com/i/5/9/8/am_131456_4981700_311032.jpg

I really hope they get their independence from the USA....We don't need a 51st State to the union.

Ok wtf...What do you mean by "we dont need". You are not different from puertoricans, we have the same American passport you have sir. You probably arent a U.S. born, got your citizenship, and are arguing whether PR should be a state or not. We, AMERICAN CITIZENS decide what to be!

Where it all will end at last ?

Ok wtf...What do you mean by "we dont need". You are not different from puertoricans, we have the same American passport you have sir. You probably arent a U.S. born, got your citizenship, and are arguing whether PR should be a state or not. We, AMERICAN CITIZENS decide what to be!

He's "moving back to europe" Dark, so probably a foreigner. Don't you just love it when they feel they have a right to an opinion on purely insular affair? The unmitigated GAUL. :ohno:

I really want to see Puerto Rico as an US state.

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY !!!

http://lifeinthelostworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/MP900384894.jpg

I wanna see Puerto Rico make a decision and quit bs'ing the years away. State Hood or Independence one or the other no more hiding in between.

What would be the pros cons for Puerto Rico if it became a state?

What would be the pros cons for Puerto Rico if it became a state?

Unless you believe in mercantilism and imperialism, I don't see many pros for the rest of us. It would be the poorest state, a drain on the tax base and it would further dilute the linguistic glue that partly holds the rest of us together--English.

For the Puerto Ricans, statehood would mean an end to the great deal they've been getting--they would have to pay US taxes like the existing states and there would be an end to the corporate tax loopholes that have lured drug and other companies to the island in an attempt to boost its economy.

^^ Independence for Puerto Rico then!!

^^ Independence for Puerto Rico then!!

Certainly--all they have to do is vote for it in one of the opportunities they have periodically been given.

Unless you believe in mercantilism and imperialism, I don't see many pros for the rest of us. It would be the poorest state, a drain on the tax base and it would further dilute the linguistic glue that partly holds the rest of us together--English.

For the Puerto Ricans, statehood would mean an end to the great deal they've been getting--they would have to pay US taxes like the existing states and there would be an end to the corporate tax loopholes that have lured drug and other companies to the island in an attempt to boost its economy.

Does Puerto Rico not generate any revenue for the government at all? I know that many Puerto Ricans serve in the military so I think thats an important contribution to the US.

I wanna see Puerto Rico make a decision and quit bs'ing the years away. State Hood or Independence one or the other no more hiding in between.

The reality is that Washington's completed gridlocked. There's no wiggle room for any type of significant change. And so the status of PR will continue to be as it has for the forseable future.

Puerto Rico has been a territory for more than a century now. We have been a "Freely Associated State" for about half that time. We've been citizens now for 85 years and have shed blod at a higher per-capita rate than any state in all wars since 1917.

What we have in the forum is a few recalcitrant pro-independence types who have seen the increase in the pro-statehood votes since 1967 and who realize that the upcoming plsebicite has the potential of unseating the ELA as the "default" preference ofthe people of PR in favor of State-hood. That must be a searing reality for a group that amounts to no more than 5% of the electorate.

On the other hand, one must understand that with statehood comes a greater level of social, educational and infrastructure expenditures for the island. While this is not a cure for the ailments of the island, it will go a long way to improve its finances. The cure for our economic woes lies in:
1-exporting our workers to the US and
2- reducing the rate of birth and the polulation in the island by at least 30%.

PR is politically and operationally (both tactically and strategically) convenient to the US in exerting influence in the Caribbean. Culturally, PR is more like the US than it is like Venezuela, Argentina or Brazil... In effect, the soft-sell of the last four deades has made PR very American, even if most lower classes speak only spanglish, the profesional classes do speak English.

If Statehood gets more than 50% of the vote in November, you can put a fork in it. Sooner or later, we'll see a 2/3ds majority and with it the moral strength to go to congress and ask them for one or the other. Statehood or Independence, and put an end to the US's colonialist era.

charlie, the rate of birth in Puerto Rico is lower than in the USA mainland and PR is not overpopulated, that is simply retarded, NJ for example has more density than PR.

Bori:

It depends what you mean as rate of births, as I use it in regards to the fact taht the island is "over-populated". In any event, I doubt that New Jersey is an example to aspire to. In any event, the island's carrying capacity is not based on birth rates or population density, which I assume is where you go here. It is based on a geography's ability to sustain a population over time. In that respect, PR has been overpopulated for decades.

Saying that NJ has more dense population than PR is disingenuous since there are parts of the island that are difficult to build upon and skew the numbers and NJ has a lot more land to absorb its population yet where this population does concentrate, overcrowding issues do occur. According to the 2000 U.S. Census; the San Juan Municipio is the densest in the island at 9,084.4 people per square mile, which put it at about the same population density as Washington DC (9,316.4 people per square mile)... and more than twice that of Las Vegas ( 4,222.5 people per square mile). Is this a sustainable model for an island that is 100 by 35 miles and mostly mountainous?

What is NOT sustainable is the way we build and the way our cities have been developed over the years, but we are not overpopulated, that is plain wrong.

What is not sustainable is the fact that we import most of the foodstuffs in PR and that drinking water is a finite asset. Let's not talk of human waste and trash...

http://is4ie.org/resources/Documents/chertow%2520dechenes%2520An%2520Island%2520Approach%2520to%2520Industrial%2520Ecology-%2520Toward%2520Sustainability%2520in%2520the%2520Island%2520Context.pdf

A Case Study: Puerto Rico
As a growing field, industrial ecology needs areas to study that are amenable to its approaches and can benefit from increased understanding of sustainable industrial development. Such areas must have the potential for industrial development as well as an evident need to incorporate sustainability considerations into their industrial systems. The island of Puerto Rico, with its diverse ecological and industrial systems discussed below, presents this type of setting for industrial ecological study. Examination of the industrial systems of Puerto Rico under the optic of industrial ecology was started by the Yale Center for Industrial Ecology in 2001. While research on site-specific projects in Puerto Rico is on going, the motivation to study an island such as Puerto Rico was
established by the research team at the onset of the study based on the unique characteristics of the island context. Descriptions of Puerto Rico and a few of the
specific studies underway are presented here to illustrate the potential utility of applying industrial ecology to the island context.

Study Site
Puerto Rico, one of the Greater Antilles, is a commonwealth of the USA located between the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean. Its total land area is approximately 9000 km2 (2 240 000 acres) with a population of approximately 3.9 million, giving the island a population density similar to that of the state of New Jersey, the highest in the USA. A true island, Puerto Rico has about 500 km of coastline and is home to the fourth largest container port in the world at San Juan. The natural geography of Puerto Rico ranges from coastal water systems to arid uplands and includes tropical rainforests among its diverse ecosystems. The USA gained possession of Puerto Rico as a Commonwealth following the Spanish-American War in 1898. The first elected government of 1948 saw manufacturing as the path to development for Puerto Rico. The industrialization programme ‘Operation Bootstrap’ advocated: developing the local labour base; inviting investment of external capital; importing raw materials; and exporting
finished products to the USA. This initiative included federal tax incentive programmes that exempted manufacturers locating in Puerto Rico from the majority of corporate income taxes.
Puerto Rico possesses few natural resources, mainly stone and marine fish as well as some copper and nickel. The primary industries in Puerto Rico, other than tourism, are high value added sectors that benefit from the tax incentives gained by locating on the island. In 2000 the pharmaceutical industry accounted for $20.8 billion in exports, 65 facilities, and over 25 000 employees. Sixteen of the top 20 prescription drugs in the USA are produced in Puerto Rico. The 208 P. J. Deschenes & M. Chertow measuring, analyzing and controlling instruments industry (MACII) accounted for $1.8 billion in exports, 41 plants and 15 000 employees in 2000. The electronic and electrical equipment manufacturing industry accounted for $6.7 billion in exports, 85 plants and 17 500 employees in the same period. The plastics industry added another 76 plants and 4 700 employees (Puerto Rico Department of Economic Development, 2001a, 2001b; Puerto Rico Industrial Development Company, 2000). The industrial milieu of the islands also includes agriculture, food processing, power generation, textiles and petrochemicals. Puerto Rico has low labour unionization, and the national average wage is about two-thirds of that of the rest of the USA. About 53% of all 20 to 24 year olds are enrolled in higher education and 77% of the workforce are high school graduates (Puerto Rico Industrial Development Company, 2002). A highly educated and relatively inexpensive labour force, along with a host of tax incentives, have made Puerto Rico very attractive to foreign manufacturing firms. Puerto Rico provides a unique and advantageous balance of accessibility and isolation for an industrial ecological study. Its political, economic and industrial systems are well documented in available databases and archives. Its close ties and proximity to the USA facilitate physical inspection and transparent analysis. As an island, Puerto Rico has well-defined boundaries across which
established systems of accounting exist for materials flows. The island is large enough for a study of diverse industrial systems, yet small enough and isolated enough to engender the characteristics of the island context.

Sustainability Challenges
A brief survey of the resources of Puerto Rico indicates a number of sustainability challenges for the island. Primary among these is the need for sustainable energy options. Puerto Rico has none of its own fossil fuel resources, but 99% of the electricity generated on the island and nearly all of the island’s energy come from fossil fuels (Energy Information Administration, 2002a). Puerto Rico must generate all of its own electricity. As a result, electricity costs for all sectors in Puerto Rico are much higher than in the continental USA. Although Puerto Rico is a tropical island with high solar incidence and abundant wind resources on a number of coasts, neither of these renewable sources of energy have been developed commercially. Alternative transportation is virtually absent in the cities of Puerto Rico. Cars and some buses operating on gasoline and diesel fuel are the sole mode of vehicular transportation on the island.7 Puerto Rico relies on two principle sources of water. A large aquifer exists
on the limestone bedrock in the northern portion of the island. Many industries, especially large pharmaceutical companies in this region, tap this resource via wells. Over-pumping and waste effluent contamination have begun to degrade the aquifer in places and concern has been expressed on the island over the functional lifetime of this resource. Salt water intrusion on the south of the island is another indicator of capacity limitations. Much of the island’s water comes from collected runoff in reservoirs in the centre of the island. Reported water line losses as high as 40% are a concern for the sustainability of water supply (Puerto Rico Aqueduct and Sewer Authority, 1996). A large quantity of bottled drinking water is imported to the island,8 but water is not imported for other uses.

The majority of material resources are imported to Puerto Rico, with a large portion of these imports coming from the USA. Puerto Rico mines some limestone and aggregate for use on the island, and approximately 480 000 hectares of its land are employed in agriculture (Estudios Technicos, 1997). About half of this is used for growing coffee and sugar cane for export. Mangoes, pineapples, melons and plantains are also grown for export. The remaining local agricultural production produces only a small fraction of the food consumed by the island’s residents. The modest quantities of secondary material collected on the island are exported for recycling. Owens-Illinois operates a facility that manufactures glass bottles and is the only firm producing new products from secondary material on the island.9 Puerto Rico is reliant on imports for most of its material resources with the exception of a few types of fruits and vegetables and few imported resources are effectively reused or recycled on the island.
Solid waste production on the island is very high, with estimates ranging from 8000 to 14 000 tons per day with less than a 5% recycling rate (Miranda & Hale, 1999; Mahoney, 2001; Rodriguez, 2002). The majority of solid waste produced in Puerto Rico is disposed of in landfills on the island. In 1993, there were 62 landfills, but by 1999 only 29 remained open as a result of mandatory closings (Autoridad de Desperdicios Solidos, 1999). Only four of these landfills are thought to be substantially compliant with environmental regulations, however leachate is not properly collected in any of the island’s landfills causing significant fear of soil and groundwater contamination (Uemachi et al., 2003). Given the lack of enforcement and compliance, it could be concluded that Puerto Rico has reached its assimilative capacity for municipal solid waste. Despite
estimates that disposal capacity could last another 10 years, there is no plan to
construct new landfills in Puerto Rico (Uemachi et al., 2003). Only a few, experimental composting and land application projects are under way on the island. These focus on biosolids and cannery wastes. There are no waste incineration or waste to energy operations in Puerto Rico and this option has been largely precluded legislatively. Most hazardous waste is shipped off the island, although some pharmaceutical waste is incinerated on site by private operations.

Industrial Ecology Applied to Puerto Rico
Puerto Rico, during its short, intense industrialization over the last 50 years, has become a hub of manufacturing. Raw materials are imported and value added goods are exported, capitalizing on inexpensive skilled labour and a variety of tax incentives. Little effort is made to consider the limits of the island’s natural environment when faced with global-scale production, throughput and consumption. Rapid industrialization in the island context has produced the numerous sustainability challenges listed above. As these challenges deal with flows of resources and the conflict between industry and natural carrying capacity, industrial ecology, which brings the tools of material flow analysis, cascading resource flows and life cycle accounting to the table, offers a unique problem solving perspective. At the same time, many of the limitations of the island context can be viewed as opportunities for sustainable development solutions based in industrial ecology. 210 P. J. Deschenes & M. Chertow In an effort to bring the concepts of industrial ecology to bear on the sustainability challenges of Puerto Rico, a number of studies have been carried out by the Yale Center for Industrial Ecology at specific sites on the island. A brief overview of three of these is presented here to demonstrate the potential utility of industrial ecology for addressing environmental sustainability on the
island. Pharmaceuticals. The size and concentration of the pharmaceutical industry in
Puerto Rico make the firms in this sector a competitive cluster on the island (Ashton & Chertow, 2002). Fifteen pharmaceutical facilities are located around the municipality of Barceloneta in the northern part of the island. In the past, these companies have sought to work together on projects to address air emissions, water use, and waste production, but progress has been slow. Fresh water supply and waste management are principal environmental concerns for these pharmaceutical manufacturing firms in Puerto Rico. A survey of the resource flows of the pharmaceutical companies shows a number of potential initiatives that could improve the existing operations, as well as the environmental sustainability of the participants. Some ideas from the Center for Industrial Ecology study that addressed water use included construction of a storm-water facility, common treatment in a dedicated wastewater plant, and extending agricultural and other businesses that use appropriately prepared water treatment sludge on hay crops and in teak forests. The study also showed the potential for:
• energy efficiency from a jointly operated co-generation power facility;
• transportation efficiency through a joint employee shuttle;
• secondary and tertiary packaging manufactured from secondary materials;
and
• solvent recovery to be used by paint and cleaning compound manufacturers.
There is now evidence that the sustainability pressures predicted in the first part of this discussion are leading to the sorts of co-operative arrangements fostered by industrial ecology. As of 2003, eight facilities in the Barceloneta pharmaceutical cluster are joining together to address energy and water constraints simultaneously. Under a proposed agreement, the companies will supply wastewater to a new co-generation plant and will get back energy in the form of steam from the power station. While it could be argued that such organization is not limited to an island setting, co-operation at this scale is very unusual in North American facilities.
Manufacturing clusters. A number of industries are grouped together on the western side of Puerto Rico and make up the Puerto Rico Techno-Economic Corridor (PRTEC). This development includes groups of firms dedicated to information technologies, medical devices manufacturing and electronics manufacturing.
A survey designed to quantify the collective material flows of 23 companies in PRTEC demonstrated the potential for new operations to recycle cardboard, metal alloys and isopropanol (Campos et al., 2002). The volume of a material such as cardboard flowing from PRTEC may not be sufficient to drive a material recovery operation, but the proximity of all major sources of waste cardboard on the island to PRTEC could allow a recycled cardboard plant to be co-located. The size of the island limits transportation distances for the collection of secondary materials, and the ocean boundaries of the island can create an economy of local processing favoured over trans-shipment. The proximity of the companies and their service needs also suggest that efficiencies could be gained from siting collective catering, uniform cleaning and instrument sterilization
services near the facilities. The efficiencies could be realized through reductions in the use of energy, water and materials, as well as through reduced transportation. These efficiencies have a greater value in the island context, where resources (water) are more limited and inputs (energy and materials) are more expensive.
Value added industries. A large trans-shipment port project called the Port of the Americas has been proposed for the southern part of the island. In conjunction with the Port project, there is a proposal for the development of a group of value added industries near the port. Already present on the chosen site are two power plants, an old oil refinery and a desalination facility. New development can incorporate the water, material and energy flows of these existing facilities to improve resource efficiency. An example is a beverage manufacturing operation, which uses excess desalinated water as a primary input, low-pressure steam from the power plants to provide refrigeration and cooling and packaging materials generated from reuse/recycling of materials from the surrounding
value added industries. The new port development can be implemented while minimizing environmental impact of new resource flows by increasing the cycling of existing resources. In the absence of the industrial ecology approach of tracking materials through their lifecycles and linking separate industries, the port would be just another large development project in the island context. The scale of material throughputs would provide economic development for Puerto Rico, while burdening the island with increased wastes and demand for energy and water. A view of the port development from the industrial ecology perspective offers options for increased energy and water use efficiency. Programmes to develop packaging reuse and recycling could make the port a sink for some secondary materials on the island, rather than a source of more waste for the strained waste management facilities of Puerto Rico.
These three examples alone will not solve the island-level sustainability challenges of Puerto Rico. The purpose of these studies is to demonstrate that by considering parts of the industrial system, their resource flows and the related impacts to the island environment, human activities can be planned to address the need for careful operation and development in the island context. The studies are themselves suggestions for developing sustainable industry within the broader context of Puerto Rico. Note that the examples presented include considerations of environmental sustainability as well as the potential for future economic development. Industrial ecology does not simply place industry within the constraints of the environment. Connectivity and complexity are
promoted as a means to increase resource use efficiency while improving existing operations and creating opportunities for new businesses (Chertow & Deschenes, 2003).
The examples presented here show methods for improving Puerto Rico’s overall environmental infrastructure: the efficiency of energy, water and material use and the reduction of waste through material cycling. Development solutions based on an industrial ecology perspective speak to the immediate sustainability concerns of Puerto Rico. At the same time, previous research suggests that the 212 P. J. Deschenes & M. Chertow application of technologies to address environmental infrastructural needs are
collective goods, the delivery of which is much more complex than the transfer of ndustrial technology to the supply of private commodities (Tisdell, 2000).
With this is mind; energy should eventually be produced in Puerto Rico primarily from locally available, renewable resources. While these resources are being developed, fossil fuel use can focus on new, cleaner technologies to provide cleaner energy for the island. If fossil fuel is combusted to produce electricity, methods of energy efficiency can reduce demand, and by-product steam can also be put to productive uses. An ethic of co-generation should prevail until renewable technologies can replace existing non-renewable generation.
In the short term, Puerto Rico cannot afford to use fresh water inefficiently. Proper wastewater treatment can help prevent the destruction of the island’s aquifer and aquatic ecosystems as well as the fouling of fresh water resources. Collective partnering in major industries, such as pharmaceutical manufacturing, can motivate more efficient water use and increased waste water treatment, while lowering the overall cost of these activities. It is unreasonable to expect Puerto Rico to forfeit all external inputs of
material resources. However, imported materials are associated with a lack of resource security and the threat of waste generation beyond the island’s assimilative capacity. Non-product materials can be used not once, but repeatedly. Local alternatives, such as recycled packaging and solvents, can be researched as substitutes for external inputs. Landfilling should be seen as an option that is severely limited by the size constraints of the island, and waste materials should be investigated for reuse and recycling or at least energy recovery.
An overview of the island’s sustainability challenges and options provides an insight into the importance of industrial ecology in this island context at a summary level. The concentration of industrial activities embedded in an environment of limited natural resources and carrying capacity introduces immediate sustainability concerns, while creating facilitated conditions for numerous symbiotic interactions with the potential to mitigate and resolve these concerns. As research continues, more examples are uncovered that demonstrate the potential of symbiosis to address resource availability concerns in the island setting in industries such as rum production, food processing, cement and concrete and paper recovery (Yale CIE & FLMM, 2003).

It would screw your flag up. :colgate:

It wouldn't harm my flag... It has 50 stars already and room for a few more...

IIRC, the USA's Army office of Heraldry (I forget its actual title) has official designs on file for up to 58 stars.

Mike

I was in the Wisconsin-Minnesotta area recently and talking with some folks they said they wouldn't mind PR becoming a state, some even said we were already a state but without a star in our flag...

Maybe Barry can make his "56 states" gaffe a correct statement...

The truth of the matter is I don't think that peurto Rico really wants to be a state. Anybody have a survey results? Also do you think if it was a state they would include the virgin islands? I don't ever see then being a state by theirselves.

Half the population wants statehood, that's almost 2 million american citizens right there...

Ahhh. I don't think it could come to be a state without a bigger majority.

^^ Agree.

Half the population wants statehood, that's almost 2 million american citizens right there...

The flip side of that is that 50%, or 2 million, don't want to be Americans.

I'm very optimistic this next referendum on November 6th will clearly incline in statehood. I believe it's already clear to many puertoricans that our actual status is obsolete, and that defining ourselves is critical for the island's progress. This is really the first time presidential candidates compromise obeying the Island's will (Democrat party more clearly). Let's see what happens.

On behalf to the percentage of votes needed to be a clear mandate, 60%+ should be sufficient.

Let's say most Boricuas (more than 60%) vote for statehood, how long it will take for Puerto Rico to become a state?? I heard Alaska took more than 10 years!!

Puerto Ricans are already American citizens.

Puerto Rico Statehood Vote Could Make Territory 51st State

By Myles Collier , Christian Post Contributor
August 22, 2012|9:16 am
Both Republicans and Democrats will be focused on one result of the election this year that will not include the two men running for office; instead, their focus will be concentrated on the vote to see if Puerto Rico will become the 51st state.

This is not the first time that the U.S. territory has voted on statehood, but it is been given much attention due to the change it can bring to the congress. The statehood votes that failed in the past happened in 1967, 1993, and 1998.

Should Puerto Rico be voted into the union, then they would bring along with them two senators and at least one representative, which could shift the balance of the congress one way or the other.

The constitution does not really specify exactly how a territory becomes a state, but in Article IV, Section 3, power is given to congress to decide to bring a measure that would put the issue of statehood to a vote.

Puerto Rico residents are American citizens with every right inherently given except two: the right to vote and the right for voting representation.

"The question that everyone in America should ask themselves is, if these American men and women having actually contributed in so many ways, including with their lives to our nation," said Luis Fortuno, Puerto Rico's Governor, according to ABC.

But this particular vote is not exactly straightforward; the vote is divided into two parts. The first part asks voters if they want to remain a U.S. territory. The second part then asks voters to choose which three options they prefer: do they wish to remain a territory, do they want to become an independent country or do they want to become the 51st state.

Whatever the outcome, Fortuno feels strongly that the people of Puerto Rico have earned the right to decide for themselves.

"Don't they deserve to express themselves and tell us whether they want to remain a territory or become an independent republic or become a state with all the obligations and benefits of American citizens residing elsewhere," Fortuno said.

The vote is scheduled for Tuesday, Nov. 6.

http://global.christianpost.com/news/puerto-rico-statehood-vote-could-make-territory-51st-state-80394/

Let's say most Boricuas (more than 60%) vote for statehood, how long it will take for Puerto Rico to become a state?? I heard Alaska took more than 10 years!!

It is unknown. The truth is, even if PR votes in favor of statehood it still must be admitted to the union. This is unlikely to pass Congress as it would likely be admitted as a Democratic leaning state. The last time states were admitted (Alaska and Hawaii) they were only admitted as a pair so that the balance of power would stay more or less even (One Democratic leaning and one Republican leaning state). That is one of the main reasons it took Alaska so long, they were being forced to wait for Hawaii. So, that said, what other territory could be admitted? The Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, or the Virgin Islands are the main contenders, IMO.

Steve

Let's say most Boricuas (more than 60%) vote for statehood, how long it will take for Puerto Rico to become a state?? I heard Alaska took more than 10 years!!


IMPO; it would take no less than 67%.

Democratic Party platform: Lack of status resolution has held PR back (http://caribbeanbusinesspr.com/news/democratic-party-platform-lack-of-status-resolution-has-held-pr-back-75950.html)
By CB Online Staff
cbnews@caribbeanbusinesspr.com


The Democratic Party’s 2012 platform says it is “time for Puerto Rico to take the next step in the history of its status and its relationship to the rest of the United States.”
On convention eve, Democrats released a party platform for ratification Tuesday that echoes Obama’s call for higher taxes on the wealthy and reflects his shift on gay marriage by supporting it explicitly.

The plank on Puerto Rico says the island’s political status “remains an issue of overwhelming importance, but lack of resolution about status has held the island back.”

The Puerto Rico section starts by touting the island’s contribution to the United States.

“As President Obama said when he became the first President to visit Puerto Rico and address its people in 50 years, Boricuas every day help write the American story. Puerto Ricans have been proud American citizens for almost 100 years. During that time, the people of Puerto Rico have developed strong political, economic, social, and cultural ties to the United States,” the platform reads.

It echoes the stance taken by the White House task force on Puerto Rico in its report, crediting the group with taking “important and historic steps” on the status issue.

“We commit to moving resolution of the status issue forward with the goal of resolving it expeditiously,” the platform reads. “If local efforts in Puerto Rico to resolve the status issue do not provide a clear result in the short term, the President should support, and Congress should enact, self-executing legislation that specifies in advance for the people of Puerto Rico a set of clear status options, such as those recommended in the White House Task Force Report on Puerto Rico, which the United States is politically committed to fulfilling.”

Puerto Ricans will vote on the status issue on election day in November.

The plebiscite ballot will consist of two questions. Voters will first be asked whether they want the current territory status to continue. Regardless of how voters answer that question, they will then be asked to express their preference among the three alternatives to the current status: statehood, independence and nationhood in free association with the United States.

Puerto Ricans previously have voted to remain a commonwealth in referendums issued in 1967 (60 percent) and 1993 (48 percent). In a 1998 plebiscite, the “none of the above” option won with 50 percent of the vote, followed by statehood at 46 percent. The “none of the above” option was added by the commonwealth supporting Popular Democratic Party to protest the definition of “commonwealth” on the ballot.

The platform says the economic success of Puerto Rico is intimately linked to a swift resolution of the status question, as well as consistent, focused efforts on improving the lives of the people of Puerto Rico.

It touts “great progress” for Puerto Rico over the past four years, including a sharp, increase in Medicaid funding and fair and equitable inclusion in the American Reinvestment & Recovery Act and the Affordable Care Act.

“Going forward, we will continue working toward fair and equitable participation for Puerto Rico in federal programs,” the platform reads.

“We support increased efforts by the federal government to improve public safety in Puerto Rico and the United States Virgin Islands, with a particular emphasis on efforts to combat drug trafficking and crime throughout our Caribbean border,” the document reads.

“In addition, consistent with the task force report, we will continue to work on improving Puerto Rico’s economic status by promoting job creation, education, health care, clean energy, and economic development on the island,” the Puerto Rico section concludes.

The platform addresses the other four U.S. territories in a single section, which ecognizes and honors the contributions and the sacrifices made in service of our country by the Americans living in the territories of Guam, American Samoa, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.

“We support full self-government and self- determination for the people of the territories, and their right to decide their future status,” the platform reads. “We will work as partners to the people of Guam on military matters, and take seriously the unique health care challenges that Pacific Island communities face. For all those who live under our flag, we support strong economic development and will work towards fair and equitable treatment under federal programs.”

It is unknown. The truth is, even if PR votes in favor of statehood it still must be admitted to the union. This is unlikely to pass Congress as it would likely be admitted as a Democratic leaning state. The last time states were admitted (Alaska and Hawaii) they were only admitted as a pair so that the balance of power would stay more or less even (One Democratic leaning and one Republican leaning state). That is one of the main reasons it took Alaska so long, they were being forced to wait for Hawaii. So, that said, what other territory could be admitted? The Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, or the Virgin Islands are the main contenders, IMO.

Steve
Interesting here in that at the time that they were granted statehood, Alaska was fully expected to be a majority 'D' ('blue') state and Hawaii majority 'R' ('red').

:nuts:

As for Puerto Rico, remember that Governor Fortuño is a Republican.

In addition to adding the usual two seats to the USSenate, statehood for Puerto Rico will also require adding and/or reapportioning a total of six seats in the House of Representatives, this due to PR's resident population.

--------------------

I have also seen some fairly recent discussion of the idea of gathering up all of the USA's Pacific Ocean islands that are not already parts of existing states and creating a single state of (for lack of a better name) 'Pacifica' out of them. Would it work? I'm not sure, but IMHO, it is an idea that is worth further study.

Mike

I have also seen some fairly recent discussion of the idea of gathering up all of the USA's Pacific Ocean islands that are not already parts of existing states and creating a single state of (for lack of a better name) 'Pacifica' out of them. Would it work? I'm not sure, but IMHO, it is an idea that is worth further study.

Living in Japan gives me easy and cheap access to places most Americans forget are part of America, like Guam, Saipan and Rota. They're all about a 3 hour flight from Tokyo and are budget alternatives to Hawaii, great for back when I was a student.

These places are far behind Puerto Rico when it comes to development and standard of living. Guam is like Cebu in the Philippines - a few sparkling new enclaves for Japanese and Korean tourist, a few walled-off military bases, and a whole bunch of abject rural poverty, beyond the worst you'd see in the poorest parts of Mississippi. Saipan is similar, but with less development and more of an untouched feel. Rota is barely populated. All told, about 200,000 people, with 150,000 or so in Guam and the rest spread across a thousand miles of the Northern Marianas chain.

I'm not sure Congress would be willing to admit our unorganized Pacific territories as a state because of this huge standard of living gap; the amount of money that would be needed to upgrade civic infrastructure and the percentage of the population that would suddenly qualify for subsidized everything would make every GOP member and a good number of Democrats balk.

Plus, I'm not sure Guamanians would want to see their island become a state. Right now, they don't pay any federal taxes, but the island receives a huge amount of transfer payments from the Treasury.

Puerto Rico and DC are the only territories being considered for statehood. There is a rare chance the Pacific islands will ever become part of the Union. There have been talking about consolidating Puerto Rico and the USVI as a single state, but that will not happen. The cultural gap between these two is drastic, and i don't think it would be an asset for PR's economy.

PR should become a nation-state, not a US. state.

That's up to them not to us.

The flip side of that is that 50%, or 2 million, don't want to be Americans.
Not quite. It's a small minority that favors full independence. A majority of Puerto Ricans want to be part of the US, either as a state or by continuing the colonial relationship.


That's up to them not to us.
Actually, it's up to you guys, not us. The sole decision making power is up to the US congress.

Whats the news from PR? is there a media push either way for the upcoming statehood election?

Whats the news from PR? is there a media push either way for the upcoming statehood election?
Media predictions are a bit uncertain down here, because the local media has an obvious partisan agenda.

I'm predicting that "Yes" will win on the status referendum, but just barely. Like 51%.

Culturally, my people are a bit risk-averse. Any change to Puerto Rico's status will come from congress, from from us.

Media predictions are a bit uncertain down here, because the local media has an obvious partisan agenda.

I'm predicting that "Yes" will win on the status referendum, but just barely. Like 51%.

Culturally, my people are a bit risk-averse. Any change to Puerto Rico's status will come from congress, from from us.

congress has made it clear they will admit you guys, its up to y'all

The great majority of puerto ricans don't know what comes with Statehood, we are constantly being bombarded with anti-statehood propaganda everywhere, the majority of the media is anti-statehood and so are most of the political parties.

Just cause some members of the Congress and Romney have said they are all-in for statehood doesn't mean the Congress will accept us.

congress has made it clear they will admit you guys, its up to y'all

They say one thing, the constitution says another. Constitution > Congress

In an extreme example: 100% of Puerto Rico could vote for statehood, and congress could still grant Puerto Rico its independence.

the majority of the media is anti-statehood and so are most of the political parties.

To be fair though, the majority of political parties are the opposite of what you are ;) Especially since only 2 of the majors have opinions on the status (PNP/PPD) and only two of the minor parties (MUS/PIP) do as well.

In reality, only one major party opposes statehood, and two minors - who if lucky will get a combined 5% at the general election - oppose statehood. The other two minor parties (PPR/PPT) don't care about status, and prefer to focus on every other issue.

So truth be told, only just over half of PR opposes statehood, but an overwhelming majority do want so relationship with the US.

As far as the media goes - the media just wants to have a field day with corrupt politicians. If it so happens that the majority of them in recent history have been pro-statehood (Jorge DeCastro Font, El Chuchin, Chemito, etc), then let it be.

Oh please, it's so obvious that the majority of the media is anti-statehood, the great majority of the media, specially written and tv, are pro-independence, and the majority of them vote for the pro-commonwealth party.

Oh please, it's so obvious that the majority of the media is anti-statehood, the great majority of the media, specially written and tv, are pro-independence, and the majority of them vote for the pro-commonwealth party.
No, it's not that the media is anti-statehood; it's that only two mediums are formally pro-statehood (El Vocero and WAPA Radio).

And I guess the mentality is that you're with us, or you're against us.

mkt, Lenin is a very close friend of the PDP's leadership, Mardelis Jusino is a PDP supporter, Aixa Vazquez was crying on national tv when Anibal Acevedo Vila was accused, Cydmarie Fleming is a PDP supporter, Julio Rivera Saniel is a PDP supporter.

Once again, are you serious?

I grew up in the Puerto Rican political spectrum, I am related by blood to more politicians than I care to mention and have been surrounded by them my entire life. I have worked for campaigns in PR and the US, and this is the first year, that out of my anger at the current system, I have refused all offers from all parties - stateside and US- and went into the private sector.

I couldn't be any more serious.

It should be a state. It would be interesting how Congress would react..

Interestingly enough, Puerto Rico has voted to become a state as of the most recent referendum.

However, the governor-elect is against statehood, so it'll be interesting if anything happens.

Interestingly enough, Puerto Rico has voted to become a state as of the most recent referendum.

However, the governor-elect is against statehood, so it'll be interesting if anything happens.

It's not the govenor's decision, its completely up to the US congress to vote to make you a state and they can make you a state against your will but the vote shows the island is in favor of statehood so it will be interesting to see if anything happens.

If Puerto Rico becomes a state, Canada will have to be the 52nd state. It will be interesting to see if anything happens.

Canada won't become a state. Peurto Rico is already a territory of the United States and is a completely different story.

Canada won't become a state. Peurto Rico is already a territory of the United States and is a completely different story.

If current ecomonic trends continue, the US will become Canada's 11th province!

I would rather see Puerto Rico join Canada, cause then we would have our own provincial tropical paridise to flock to during the winter :)

If current ecomonic trends continue, the US will become Canada's 11th province!

I would rather see Puerto Rico join Canada, cause then we would have our own provincial tropical paridise to flock to during the winter :)
You guys already invade down here lol.

Interestingly enough, Puerto Rico has voted to become a state as of the most recent referendum.

However, the governor-elect is against statehood, so it'll be interesting if anything happens.

As someone said above is now up to Congress to decide... and not to the governor-elect..
"We made history with this plebiscite," said Resident Commissioner Pedro Pierluisi, the island's representative in Congress and a member of both the pro-statehood New Progressive Party and the Democratic Party.

The certified results will be sent to the White House and the congressional leadership, and it would be up to them to begin the process of possibly admitting Puerto Rico into the union.

"The ball is now in Congress' court and Congress will have to react to this result," Pierluisi said. "This is a clear result that says 'no' to the current status."

Gov. Luis Fortuno, a member of the pro-statehood party who is also a Republican, welcomed the results and said he was hopeful that Congress would take up the cause.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/puerto-ricans-opt-statehood-referendum-17663603#.UJvBBeOe-QS

If current ecomonic trends continue, the US will become Canada's 11th province!

I would rather see Puerto Rico join Canada, cause then we would have our own provincial tropical paridise to flock to during the winter :)

Lol.
The majority of the United States debt doesn't belong to Canada.

I would rather see Puerto Rico join Canada, cause then we would have our own provincial tropical paridise to flock to during the winter :)

What ever happened to the grandiose idea of Canada admitting the Turks and Caicos Islands to the Confederation? :lol:

What ever happened to the grandiose idea of Canada admitting the Turks and Caicos Islands to the Confederation? :lol:

Don't know, never really heard of it. Was it similar for PR wanting to becoming part of America, aka Canada's toilet? ;)

Turks and Caicos wasn't the most serious thing but we've talked about it on-and-off for the past 40 years. Their government is currently in turmoil and that would be a bit of a burden for us at first, but there would be a lot of economic opportunity for the area with Canadians being able to access the island so easily. Admitting a province into Canada is a more difficult process than the US admitting a state. It would probably simply be annexed by a province. Nova Scotia has signalled its intention to accept Turks and Caicos within its province if they do want to join.

We were originally considering to merge with the West Indies Federation, but that fell apart shortly after it started. Canada has a fairly close relationship with much of the Caribbean, considering we share a British colonial past, and we also had a fairly amicable relationship with Cuba in spite of the US's negative treatment of that country. We're Cuba's largest source of tourists. The Bank of Nova Scotia has a very prominent presence within the Caribbean, in several countries there it is the most dominant bank.

If current ecomonic trends continue, the US will become Canada's 11th province!

I would rather see Puerto Rico join Canada, cause then we would have our own provincial tropical paridise to flock to during the winter :)

USA will never be part of Canada. We value our independence, our guns, and our nuclear bombs.

Our economy is in the toilet right now but we shall overcome

Back on topic, I welcome Puerto Rico to the Union. I want them to be part of it. Also, most Puerto Ricans believe that if they're independent, their new country would suffer so they value their relationship with the US. I value Puerto Rico's contribution to the US from its citizens participation in our nations military, to their rich culture, and their.......beautiful women

+ 1 ^^.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wgi3nrC-9rg/Ts67oKR9EgI/AAAAAAAAHw0/gixEOoNKHnc/s1600/a+happy.jpg

If current ecomonic trends continue, the US will become Canada's 11th province!

I would rather see Puerto Rico join Canada, cause then we would have our own provincial tropical paridise to flock to during the winter :)

I hate to break it to you darlin', but Canada has been part of the U.S. for over a century. They just don't want to acknowledge it yet. :)

And EW, obese, pasty French Canadians wearing thongs at puertorican beaches. Gag me with a spoon! :lol:

Don't know, never really heard of it. Was it similar for PR wanting to becoming part of America, aka Canada's toilet? ;)

Canada is so full of doodoo...they think they are better than their neighboor to the south, yet they come here and pretend to own the place...they're scums, dirty, cant stand them in South Florida, ugh...should I go on and on.....yet, they have no way to defend themselves if another country was to invade them...they need us and uses us to protect they sorry asses.:bash: stay there and dont come down to FL for the winter...sorry pieces of doodoo.

If Puerto Rico becomes a state, Canada will have to be the 52nd state. It will be interesting to see if anything happens.

We dont want or need Canada...too cold and unattractive.

USA will never be part of Canada. We value our independence, our guns, and our nuclear bombs.

Our economy is in the toilet right now but we shall overcome

Back on topic, I welcome Puerto Rico to the Union. I want them to be part of it. Also, most Puerto Ricans believe that if they're independent, their new country would suffer so they value their relationship with the US. I value Puerto Rico's contribution to the US from its citizens participation in our nations military, to their rich culture, and their.......beautiful women

agreed...whats in Canada....all those freaking canadians coming down here to live,,, ugh....plus is better to have PR (tropical weather) than an icebox like canada...please...

We dont want or need Canada...too cold and unattractive.

We already have enough with Alaska :troll:

We already have enough with Alaska :troll:

Hey! Alaska is very scenic with wonderful wildlife.

Puerto Rican statehood

By Boston Herald Editorial Staff
Sunday, November 25, 2012 - Updated 19 hours ago

For the first time a majority of voters in Puerto Rico, 61 percent, have said they prefer statehood over their current status. Unless they change their minds, in due course the island should be admitted to the Union as the 51st state.

Republicans may not like it; 83 percent of Puerto Ricans residing on the mainland voted for President Obama. The 51st state likely would send Democrats to Congress — unless the GOP starts making more in-roads with Hispanic voters. The United States has controlled Puerto Rico since grabbing it from Spain, the loser in the Spanish-American War of 1898; fairness demands that the islanders decide their own future.

Currently the island is said to be a “commonwealth” of the United States, a status affirmed in several previous referenda. This has advantages that Puerto Ricans, who are full U.S. citizens, could (after further deliberation) want to keep.

The main advantage is that they pay no federal income taxes. They are subject to a military draft when there is one. Though they elect their own governor and legislature, they have no vote for president or in Congress. They do send delegates to the national conventions of the Democrats and Republicans.

Some worry-warts might shrink from admitting a state whose residents speak Spanish. We see no reason to worry. English is often used, and bilingualism is to be encouraged, not discouraged. There are 25 percent more people of Puerto Rican origin on the mainland than on the island.

Puerto Rico is about the size of Connecticut, and would be entitled to five seats in the House of Representatives. Statehood would provide an opportunity for a reasonable expansion of the House, whose districts on average contain three times as many people as they did in 1912 when the membership was fixed at 435.

Welcoming Puerto Rico to the union would be a nice start.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view/20221125puerto_rican_statehood/

We dont want or need Canada...too cold and unattractive.

I would not mind if Canada became part of the US. Then we will get Montreal, Vancouver, and those good looking Quebecois girls. :cheers:

I would not mind if Canada became part of the US. Then we will get Montreal, Vancouver, and those good looking Quebecois girls. :cheers:

We have Miami :troll:

We have Miami :troll:

+1 I don't know what diablo is smoking :nuts:
québécois girls?

And I wholeheartedly welcome PR! Would be very excited of they become the 51st state!

We have Miami :troll:

+1 I don't know what diablo is smoking :nuts:
québécois girls?

If you two would have actually been there, you would have known what I was talking about. Oh, well more for me then.

I have been there, Montreal specifically. The girls there are OK, but there are plenty of hot girls down here.

I have been there, Montreal specifically. The girls there are OK, but there are plenty of hot girls down here.

Yeah but they are less likely to be obese/overweight. :troll:

There are tons of thin girls on campus, the amount of girls who are in shape far outnumber the amount of girls who are not.


Anyways, we are seriously A.D.D. and off topic :nuts:

Tear down that wall of Balzac vs Porto Rico
by Kenneth D. McClintock on Friday, November 30, 2012 at 1:22am

Remarks of
The Honorable Kenneth D. McClintock
Secretary of State of Puerto Rico

CCAA's 36th Annual Conference on the Caribbean and Central America
Plenary Lunch

New Orleans, Louisiana
November 30, 2012

I appear before you today, for the last time as Puerto Rico’s Secretary of State and, no, I will not speak to the recent steps to interconnect the Caribbean into one energy market. Today I would like to share with you my thoughts on an issue that is of great importance not only to the United States, but has also been of considerable interest to our neighbors in the Caribbean Basin and the rest of the Hemisphere. Those who will succeed the Governor and me on January 2, have very different views on the issue I will be addressing.

On November 6th, Election Day, a plebiscite was held on the preference of voters in Puerto Rico regarding the Island’s political status. Technically, Puerto Rico is a non-incorporated territory of the United States.

Voters were asked two questions on a single ballot. First they were asked if they agreed that Puerto Rico should continue to have its present form of territorial status which its supporters often refer to as “commonwealth” or “estado libre asociado”, for short “ela”, in Spanish.

Out of 1,775,893 voters, 958,915, or 54%, responded “No” —an unequivocal majority. It is also worth noting that rejection of Puerto Rico’s territorial status gathered 69,471 more votes than the Governor-Elect, who campaigned in favor of a “yes” vote, the option that polled a minority of 46%.

For the first time in history the American citizens of Puerto Rico voted against the Island’s territorial status. This is of great significance because it has been argued that Puerto Ricans have consented to it in a 1952 referendum on the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in which they were not offered an status choices, as well as in several plebiscites.

The Declaration of Independence recognizes that governments derive “their just powers from the consent of the governed." Puerto Rico’s current political status is clearly unjust because American citizens residing in the Island lack proportional and voting representation in Congress, as well as participation in the election of the President, and are subject to unequal treatment by Congress.

Let us say, for the sake of argument, that citizens can consent to subordination and inequality. With this plebiscite, the American citizens of Puerto Rico have withdrawn any plausible consent to Congress ruling over the Island by virtue of the Territory Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Let us go over the second question on the ballot. Regardless of how voters responded to the first question, they offered the opportunity to express their preference among the following non-territorial political status options: statehood, independence and free association. These are the three methods by which a territory can achieve a full measure self-government as recognized by the United Nations General Assembly in Resolution 1541 (XV) of 1960.

Out of the 1,348,686 chore decided to answer the second question, 824,195 or 61.11% voted for statehood; 74,812 or 5.55% voted for independence and 449,679 or 33.34% voted for free association.

Needless to say, statehood opponents have questioned the legitimacy of the plebiscite and the validity of the statehood majority. The time I have available for my remarks will not allow me to respond to all the attempts made by statehood opponents to spin the plebiscite results. But the question still remains: How should The White House and Congress respond?

Before The White House and Congress begin to analyze the plebiscite results they should understand how Puerto Rico’s unincorporated status originated and the effects it has had on the American citizens residing on the Island. A little legal history lesson will be required.

Puerto Rico has been a territory of the United States since 1898. In 1901, when Puerto Ricans were not yet American citizens, the U.S. Supreme Court decided in Downes v. Bidwell that the exercise of sovereignty over Puerto Rico following the Spanish-American War did not make the Island a part of the United States but only its possession. Please forgive the tortured wording of Justice Edward Douglass White that I am about to quote:

“[W]hile in an international sense Porto Rico was not a foreign country, since it was subject to the sovereignty of and was owned by the United States, it was foreign to the United States in a domestic sense, because the island had not been incorporated into the United States, but was merely appurtenant thereto as a possession.”

I am a history buff and cannot help finding historic connections. Justice White was born in a Louisiana plantation; fought for the Confederate Army; studied law at the University of Louisiana now named Tulane, my alma mater; sided with the seven justices whose majority opinion in Plessy v. Ferguson upheld the constitutionality of racial segregation in the State of Louisiana in 1896; and was elevated to Chief Justice of the Supreme Court by President William Howard Taft. You will later see how all of this is relevant.

After Congress granted American citizenship to the inhabitants of Puerto Rico in 1917 it was generally understood that the Island had been incorporated into the United States. If Puerto Ricans are natural-born American citizens, would it not be inescapable that Puerto Rico is a part of the United States? Ask yourselves: in which country of the world can a person become an American citizen at birth other than in United States? And yet, 95 years and millions of births later, Puerto Rico is still not considered a part of the United States. Why is that?

In 1922, five years after the granting of citizenship, the U.S. Supreme Court revisited the question of Puerto Rico’s political status in Balzac v. People of Porto Rico.

The opinion of the Court was written by Chief Justice Taft —the same William Howard Taft who previously had held the office of President of the United States, elevated Edward Douglass White to Chief Justice in 1910, and wrote the opinion of the Court in Lum v. Rice which, in 1927, ruled that the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution did not prohibit the segregation of Asian and white children in Mississippi state schools using the infamous decision of Plessy v. Ferguson as precedent.

Disavowing Congress and departing from the precedents of Alaska and the Louisiana Purchase, the Supreme Court, in an act of judicial legislation, decided that the grant of citizenship to the inhabitants of Puerto Rico did not result in incorporation.

This is how Taft set aside the precedents of Alaska and Louisiana.

“It is true that, in the absence of other and countervailing evidence, a law of Congress or a provision in a treaty acquiring territory, declaring an intention to confer political and civil rights on the inhabitants of the new lands as American citizens, may be properly interpreted to mean an incorporation of it into the Union, as in the case of Louisiana and Alaska. This was one of the chief grounds upon which this court placed its conclusion that Alaska had been incorporated in the Union… But Alaska was a very different case from that of Porto Rico. It was an enormous territory, very sparsely settled and offering opportunity for immigration and settlement by American citizens. It was on the American Continent and within easy reach of the then United States. It involved none of the difficulties which incorporation of the Philippines and Porto Rico presents, and one of them is in the very matter of trial by jury.”

What Chief Justice Taft referring to? In this case an American citizen residing in Puerto Rico was denied the right of trial by jury under the Sixth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution because Puerto Ricans, being of Hispanic and not Anglo-Saxon origin, were not prepared for the exercise of an Anglo-Saxon institution of justice such as trial by jury. I am serious. Allow me to quote from Chief Justice Taft:

“The jury system needs citizens trained to the exercise of the responsibilities of jurors. In common-law countries centuries of tradition have prepared a conception of the impartial attitude jurors must assume.”

Then he went on to write:

“We need not dwell on another consideration which requires us not lightly to infer, from acts thus easily explained on other grounds, an intention to incorporate in the Union these distant ocean communities of a different origin and language from those of our continental people.”

What Taft meant can be better understood by his view of the Philippines to which he made reference in his opinion together with Puerto Rico.

Taft, who was once Governor of the Philippine Islands, at one time told President McKinley that "our little brown brothers" would need "fifty or one hundred years" of close supervision "to develop anything resembling Anglo-Saxon political principles and skills."

And thus, the Supreme Court decided that Congress could determine which parts of the Constitution were applicable to Puerto Rico based on the origin of its inhabitants.

In his book The Supreme Court and Puerto Rico: The Doctrine of Separate and Unequal, U.S. Circuit Court Judge Juan Torruella pointed-out that the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Balzac is the reason why we face a problem with Puerto Rico’s political status today.

If Taft was direct, I am going to speak just as plainly. Today Puerto Rico is considered to be an unincorporated territory of the United States because of a court of segregationist judges could not conceive of a faraway island inhabited by Hispanics, rather than Anglo-Saxons, to be a part of this Nation even if they were American citizens.

And yet there are some Members of Congress who want Puerto Rico to remain an unincorporated territory indefinitely. However, they have not been as direct about their attitudes towards Puerto Ricans as Taft was in his opinion. When the time came to act on a plebiscite bill at the U.S. House of Representatives they placed obstacles on Puerto Rico’s path to statehood —sometimes in the name of fairness to all status options.

With the November 6th plebiscite the time for Congress to act has come again. Rather than questioning if Puerto Rico wants to be admitted into the Union, Members of Congress should be asking themselves what kind of Constitution and citizenship they want the United States to have. Governor Fortuño said it best when he testified before Congress on the Puerto Rico Democracy Act of 2009 and put before them “one simple question: did the framers of our Constitution intend American citizenship to be a source of equal rights?” And we went on to say:

“The action required from Congress will plainly derive from the answer…and one would hope not to find a single member of Congress that says the answer is ‘no’, or that ‘it depends.’

The answer was clearly and unequivocally ‘yes’ when the Civil War was fought to end slavery… ‘yes’ when women were recognized the right to vote… and ‘yes’ when the Supreme Court decided that separate was not equal.

Clearly, the framers of the Constitution did not intend some American citizens to be deprived of rights that other American citizens enjoy. And yet Puerto Rico is a community of American citizens who are deprived of the most basic rights of citizenship in a representative democracy: the right to vote and the right to be represented in the political body that enacts the laws by which they must abide.

Thus, the consequence of not taking action would be to renounce the principles of the Declaration of Independence and to devalue the rights recognized in the Constitution into a rhetorical expression. Is this Nation not dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal? And are not all citizens guaranteed the equal protection of the laws?”

Puerto Rico’s political status is an anomaly of the U.S. Constitutional system. America should not accept a lesser class of American citizenship for Puerto Ricans as it was once acceptable to have a lesser class of American citizenship for African Americans and women.

The American citizens of Puerto Rico are politically segregated from their counterparts in the States by a wall of inequality built upon the foundation of Balzac v. People of Porto Rico which, by virtue of the Territory Clause, allows Congress to treat the American citizens of Puerto Rico differently.

Contrary to what the U.S. Supreme Court decided in Balzac the Constitution does not provide for a full-fledged American citizenship for Anglo-Saxons in the continental United States while allowing a limited citizenship for island residents of Hispanic origin. America is one nation with one citizenship. As President Barack Obama said: “There's not a black America, a white America, a Latino America and an Asian America; there's the United States of America.''

A judicial decision that, departing from law and precedent, was guided by racial prejudice should find no further recognition in American jurisprudence and have no application by our government. Balzac is bad law. The Territory Clause cannot be the Constitution’s escape clause. Puerto Rico is a part of the United States and must be treated as such. And if America is to be true to its values, Congress must tear down that wall of Balzac in the same way that it tore down the wall of Plessy v. Fergurson.

The only way for Congress to do it is to allow Puerto Rico to become a State.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/kenneth-d-mcclintock/tear-down-that-wall-of-balzac-vs-porto-rico/10151138491241338

Porto Rico?? Where's that ?

very interesting

About a year ago, I remember the talks of combining Puerto Rico & the U.S. Virgin Islands & calling them "Puerto Virgo" for the 51st state...

About a year ago, I remember the talks of combining Puerto Rico & the U.S. Virgin Islands & calling them "Puerto Virgo" for the 51st state...

That's one of the most absurd ideas ever.

That's one of the most absurd ideas ever.yep, I couldn't agree more!! Its very absurd.

but hey, i'm just the messenger, so don't shoot me.....lol.

No I know lol just saying

So what do you guys think, would you accept us as a state?

No I know lol just saying

So what do you guys think, would you accept us as a state?

I don't think most non-partisan mainlanders would care either way; you'll only find resistance among active GOP partisans who will see Puerto Rican statehood as just another addition to the Blue Column. The Speak English or Die crowd won't be happy either (although the overlap between this group and partisan GOPers is large).

As long as we still get to enjoy those crazy July 25th parades in Boston and Hartford, you'll see plenty of support from the New England. :drink:

The biggest part of population in Puerto Rico speak Spanish and culture in Puerto Rico is practically Spanish... It will be strange, if Puerto Rico become the state of The USA.

The biggest part of population in Puerto Rico speak Spanish and culture in Puerto Rico is practically Spanish... It will be strange, if Puerto Rico become the state of The USA.

Spanish is the language spoken at home for 37 million Americans, I don't see how PR speaking spanish is a problem.

The US is a couple years away from being the 2nd largest spanish speaking country in the world. When you include people who speak Spanish as a secondary language it's already there.

Canada is so full of doodoo...they think they are better than their neighboor to the south, yet they come here and pretend to own the place...they're scums, dirty, cant stand them in South Florida, ugh...should I go on and on.....yet, they have no way to defend themselves if another country was to invade them...they need us and uses us to protect they sorry asses.:bash: stay there and dont come down to FL for the winter...sorry pieces of doodoo.

How old are you? 5? You sound very bitter. Did a Canadian fuck your wife or something?

The US is a couple years away from being the 2nd largest spanish speaking country in the world. When you include people who speak Spanish as a secondary language it's already there.

That makes the U.S., the second largest spanish speaking country in the world, Mexico being number 1. 37 million speak Spanish at home, but that doesn't mean the rest don't speak Spanish, out of the 52 Hispanics in the country, 46 million speak Spanish very well, but not at home, and that does not include people who Speak Spanish as a second language and who are not Hispanics.

Spanish is the language spoken at home for 37 million Americans, I don't see how PR speaking spanish is a problem.

You count the illegals aswell?

That's according to the US Census, and i think most of them are included.

We dont want or need Canada...too cold and unattractive.

I think you have had too much sun - the US would LOVE to have Canada as states. Just think ahead to how much water is going to be worth and how much Canada has! It would not take a rocket scientist to do the math. In fact, I can foresee a time when the US will annex Canada.

Un Día Como Hoy En La Historia De Puerto Rico : La Masacre de Ponce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponce_massacre)

az_3ZKbjxIM

As someone said above is now up to Congress to decide... and not to the governor-elect..

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/puerto-ricans-opt-statehood-referendum-17663603#.UJvBBeOe-QS
That someone was me (wow! How did I forget about this thread?)

Anyway, the governor can still lobby congress. With the previous governor, we'd have that. The now current governor could care less about PR's status.

Obama budget has $2.5M for PR plebiscite (http://caribbeanbusinesspr.com/news/obama-budget-has-$2.5m-for-pr-plebiscite-83109.html)

Issued : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:16 PM
By CB Online Staff
cbnews@caribbeanbusinesspr.com; cbprdigital@gmail.com

http://www.caribbeanbusinesspr.com/fotos/obama-run.jpg

President Barack Obama’s proposed $3.77 trillion Budget proposal for 2014 includes $2.5 million for voter education and a plebiscite in Puerto Rico on options that would resolve the fundamental question of the island’s future political status.

The funds would be appropriated to the U.S. Department of Justice to be granted to the Puerto Rico State Elections Commission. The monies could be used after the attorney general has found a commission plan that includes education materials and ballot options to be consistent with the Constitution and basic laws and policies of the United States.

The commission would have equal representation from each of Puerto Rico’s political parties, with a president appointed by the island governor. For a status plebiscite under local law last November, the membership was increased to include representatives of each of status option.

“This is a historic day for all of us who have fought for equality and justice for Puerto Rico,” Resident Commissioner Pedro Pierluisi said.

...

What's the opinion of the governor about the PR status?

He belongs to the Popular Democratic Party (PDP), which mostly support the actual status (Commonwealth). However, he supports this federal plebiscite as the majority of political entities in the Island do, including the Independence Party.

The Commonwealth is already obsolete, it was meant as a transitional status to further adopt Independence or Statehood. Some people in the PDP do not understand that, it is destroying our economy. Really hope this plebiscite solve this eternal issue once and for all.

I think it is long overdue to grant full state rights to Puerto Rico.
So what if it is Spanish language in its majority? I am positive that anyone younger than 70 knows English. Besides why is it a problem at all??? Every state has its own official language or languages. There is no official US language. And for a good reason.

To me it sounds ridiculous that a territory is part of USA for the last 115 yeas, everyone has US citizenship, can travel with US passport anywhere in the States - but the territory itself is not a state.

As for some racists who are always looking for difference in skin color - I can say that for me there is none. I can't care less if someone is black, white, yellow or even green. This world is divided between good people and bad, but not because of religion, color, language, food, sexual orientation and etc.

Time to make a decision and make things right. Make things American way - make it a state!

What would happen to PR's international sporting teams? PR has its own NOC, World Cup team, etc, if I recall correctly.

^^They would be absorbed by their respective US sporting teams, presumably. I actually don't fully understand why they have their own teams right now, anyway, since they're already American citizens.

^^They would be absorbed by their respective US sporting teams, presumably. I actually don't fully understand why they have their own teams right now, anyway, since they're already American citizens.
I'll oversimplify the answer. Puerto Rico isn't part of the union. It belongs to the US, but isn't a part of it. Sort of like a dog and your family if you remove all emotional bond (which like many, in the case of my dog, I refuse to).

Anyway, Puerto Rico, by virtue of its relationship with the US, has much more autonomy than any of the 50 states + DC. Enough autonomy, that after WWII, when PR created its own National Olympic Committee, the IOC recognized them. Since then, PR has sent athletes to international competitions.

Although any Puerto Rican athlete can compete for the US if they choose

Here's a pretty good and short article about this - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2004/08/why_puerto_rico_has_its_own_team.html

Having said that, since Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England can compete separately in many international events (rather than as team GB), I don't see why even as a state, a separate Team Puerto Rico can't exist.

I'll oversimplify the answer. Puerto Rico isn't part of the union. It belongs to the US, but isn't a part of it. Sort of like a dog and your family if you remove all emotional bond (which like many, in the case of my dog, I refuse to).

Anyway, Puerto Rico, by virtue of its relationship with the US, has much more autonomy than any of the 50 states + DC. Enough autonomy, that after WWII, when PR created its own National Olympic Committee, the IOC recognized them. Since then, PR has sent athletes to international competitions.

Although any Puerto Rican athlete can compete for the US if they choose

Here's a pretty good and short article about this - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2004/08/why_puerto_rico_has_its_own_team.html

Having said that, since Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England can compete separately in many international events (rather than as team GB), I don't see why even as a state, a separate Team Puerto Rico can't exist.

I am positive that this can be solved without big problems. ;)

I am positive that this can be solved without big problems. ;)
Solve what? There's nothing to solve ;)

That makes the U.S., the second largest spanish speaking country in the world, Mexico being number 1. 37 million speak Spanish at home, but that doesn't mean the rest don't speak Spanish, out of the 52 Hispanics in the country, 46 million speak Spanish very well, but not at home, and that does not include people who Speak Spanish as a second language and who are not Hispanics.

What percentage of the residents of the State of New Mexico speak Spanish at home? From what I understand, it is also quite high.

Mike

I think it's around 45%.

How many people in Puerto Rico are for becoming a state?

How many people in Puerto Rico are for becoming a state?
Honestly, and without any political spin or creative number counting, it's a sizable minority. Just a few points under 50%.

In 2012 we had a plebiscite with two questions. The results of the first question were quite clear: 54% of Puerto Ricans want a change in status.

The results of the second question aren't so clear. Officially 61% voted for statehood, but the true number if all ballots are counted is 44.6%. This was a result of the way the plebiscite was designed by the pro-statehood party, who was in power at the time. However two issues have cause major debate and have cast a shadow of doubt over the results.

Namely 1- those who left the second question blank. Those were not counted, even though historically, blank ballots have been counted in plebiscites. These was a 1300% increase in the number of blank ballots when compared to previous plebiscites.

And 2- The way the ballot was presented, it offered the ability to vote against a change in status, but still vote for a preferred status. And ballots like this were counted.

So the only thing that's certain is that Puerto Ricans are unhappy with the current relationship between Puerto Rico and the US, but there isn't a majority in favor of any specific alternative status.

What's clear is that for the last 60 years or so a super majority of Puertoricans (95%+) have voted in favor of their US citizenship and continued relationship with the mainland.

What's clear is that for the last 60 years or so a super majority of Puertoricans (95%+) have voted in favor of their US citizenship and continued relationship with the mainland.
And now, what's also clear is that a smaller majority wants a change :)