Big box Canadian Tire store with LEED gold cerification approved for Vancouver. Opens door for Wal-Mart?
From today's Sun.


Canadian Tire wins big-box victory
Council approves controversial Marine Drive store by razor-thin margin
Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, November 28, 2007

VANCOUVER - Canadian Tire won a bid Tuesday to develop a big-box shopping complex on Marine Drive, two years after its original proposal was rejected by a previous Vancouver city council.

Council, which now has a majority of Non-Partisan Association members, voted 5-4 Tuesday night to approve the complex, despite complaints from project opponents that it would leave a huge eco-footprint on the environment.

Critics objected to the development's size, which they said would be the equivalent of four and a half football fields.

They also argued it would increase car traffic in the area and undermine other shopping districts in south Vancouver.

COPE Coun. David Cadman wanted the vote delayed, pending a final decision on council's EcoDensity policy, which he said is violated by big-box stores.

Also voting against it were Vision Vancouver councillors Heather Deal, Tim Stevenson and Raymond Louie.

"The majority on the council, the NPA majority, are completely hypocritical," said former councillor and project opponent Anne Roberts after the vote.

"They say they believe in sustainability but they don't give a damn."

She said the decision will open the door for Wal-Mart to return with a proposal for a store in the area.

NPA Coun. Suzanne Anton pushed for the store, saying south Vancouver is short of retail and residents are travelling to big-box stores in the suburbs.

NPA councillors Elizabeth Ball, Peter Ladner, B.C. Lee and Kim Capri also voted for the deal; George Chow was absent.

"Having business people stay in Vancouver and business stay in Vancouver is a positive thing," she said.

Canadian Tire has estimated that traffic in the area would increase by 7,500 vehicles per day on a weekday and 10,500 vehicles per day on a Saturday.

But it also says the 250,000-square-foot centre, which will include a Mark's Work Wearhouse store and other retail outlets, will be a model of sustainability and the "greenest store" in Canada.

The design -- by Kasian Architecture Interior Design -- is expected to reduce energy use by 45 per cent above the national energy code while efficient windows and skylights will cut energy use and provide natural light. The design also includes thermally reflective roofing and recycled materials.

The building is aiming for LEED gold status. LEED, Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, is a U.S.-based green building certification system emphasizing sustainable site development.

This is the second time Canadian Tire has tried to develop the Marine Drive site.

Vancouver city council rejected its original application in 2005, along with a Wal-Mart application to develop an adjacent site.

The Marine Drive project is part of the retail chain's plan, announced last month, to open 60 to 70 new stores per year in the next five years.

ksinoski@png.canwest.com

and i say, 250,000 square feet??? is the city out of their minds???

It's a whole shopping complex - not just one store. The Canadian Tire itself will be marginally bigger than the one at Cambie & 7th (135,000 sq ft or so - i.e. typical mall department store size). There will also be a Mark's Work Wearhouse and one newspaper report said a London Drugs is included in the project - although I would have expected a Save-on-Foods like the Canadian Tire project on Grandview Highway. Maybe there'll be both. A Save-on-Foods would be about 50,000 sq ft and a London Drugs would be about 40,000 sq ft - so that would make up 250,000 sq ft in total.
Now, it would be nice if A&B Sound moved from down the road...

Where exactly is this going guys? And was their first design the one that had a special car park with unique drainage?

its near the foot of ontario street about 3 blocks from cambie. they should have got them to make a urban style store built to the sidewalk with a large residential component as it will be within walking distance to the marine dr canada line station. that whole area will probably get redeveloped into a more urban neighbourhood so this is gonna stick out like a sore thumb

Ta...thanks! That area is going to be really accessible now for those without cars with Marine Drive Stn right there.

It's on the former Chrysler auto parts warehouse site - the historic facade will be preserved - I think that includes preservation of the iconic front lawn.

The site is at the peak of the curve in Marine Drive. You can also see the Marine Drive Station site (ICBC) with the grove of trees (pic from 2005). Wal-Mart's site is east of (below) the Canadian Tire site.
http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2005/vch2005_046.jpg

Looking east, you can see the Superstore next door. I think that a lot of trips to Canadian Tire and/or Wal-Mart would be diverted Superstore trips as they cater to similar markets).
http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2005/vch2005_041.jpg

I'm def not a big fan of Big Boxes...but I do see the sense in building one in South Vancouver so people wouldn't have to drive to Richmond for a Canadian Tire. I'm also very happy that it's going to be LEED gold certified!

If it's within a few minutes walk of the Canada Line, I'll be less opposed of a Crappy Tire outlet than a Walmart supercentre. Superstore's already there so maybe they could link it all up into a mall or something.

I'm def not a big fan of Big Boxes...but I do see the sense in building one in South Vancouver so people wouldn't have to drive to Richmond for a Canadian Tire. I'm also very happy that it's going to be LEED gold certified!

LEED Gold is extremely difficult to achieve, so, yes, it is a very impressive goal, especially for a big box store.

Remember that City Council cannot refuse an application because of who the applicant is. i.e. they cannot legally discriminate against Wal-Mart versus Zellers or Canadian Tire. They must base their decision on sound planning principles (i.e. traffic, community impact, etc.) in order to stay within their jurisdiction - otherwise their decision could be successfully challenged in court. In the case of the previous Wal-Mart decision, all of the staff reports supported the rezoning - yet council voted against it. I think that the only thing working for council was that both the Wal-Mart and the Canadian Tire applications were rejected, making an argument of discrimination more difficult.

The City should be evaluating proposals on a generic basis - regardless of who is moving into a commercial space. That was done for The Rise (Cambie & 8th). Home Depot subsequently rented space in the approved building after their Broadway & Arbutus proposal failed. If Home Depot had been signed on at the time the project was going through council, I'll bet there would have been protests.

WRT the "mall" comment - in the first Global Air Pic above, there looks to be an east-west street running behind the Canadian Tire and Wal-Mart sites that lines up with the Marine Drive Station site - except for a big warehouse - so maybe in future it could become a walking route to and from the Station away from busy Marine Drive.

LEED Gold is extremely difficult to achieve, so, yes, it is a very impressive goal, especially for a big box store.

even millenium water had to half ass it (look into it) its very hard and im not sure if canadian tire would be able to achieve gold status.

The city released a report on what the area could handle retail wise, with Mark's Workwearhouse there and Oakridge there is only a few thousand sqft left of clothing retail available in the whole area, the Wal-mart would be rejected on the basis of that report. No discrimination needed. I posted a link to the report a few months back on SSP, or you could do a search on COVs website.

I think that report dates back to the Wal-Mart application (i.e. was prepared for the Wal-Mart application) and I don't think that staff objected to the application on that basis. Arguably, if the inclusion of Oakridge in the catchment area for that report has the effect of nullifying any large scale clothing store from the highway oriented area along Marine Dr., when the zoning policy allows such use to be included, there may be grounds to challenge the decision. I can't recall, but that report may also have considered that Oakridge would be expanding in the future - so the resulting question would then be - would the Mark's Work Wearhouse (and Wal-Mart?) prevent Oakridge from expanding too?

Seems a bit ironic that the gist of that report would be to force South Vancouver shoppers to travel [drive] to one of the most expensive malls in the region (although there is a Zellers there). It's a bit like saying there's a lot of restaurants in Yaletown (but only a few of which you could afford to eat at on a regular basis).

I could see a political cartoon in the newspaper with a Marie Antoinette figure saying "Let them shop at Oakridge".

not exactly related, but it's about big box stores.


A picture of a Wal-Mart in Washington State....flooded. There's a God afterall...
http://pricetags.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/flooded-walmart.jpg

No one likes the aesthetics of big box developments. That being said, Vancouver really doesn't have many department stores for it's size. You have to drive or commute way too far here to find a large store, with the exception of downtown.

not exactly related, but it's about big box stores.


A picture of a Wal-Mart in Washington State....flooded. There's a God afterall...
http://pricetags.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/flooded-walmart.jpg

Somebody must have found the "heart of Wal-Mart" (mirror in the back of store) and smashed it.

Sorry, can never resist a good South Park reference :)

That's a good picture, but on a more serious matter: the flood pictured has killed 5 people, close I-5, and flooded two cities.

Just wanted to state the importance of the picture...

Pile of dead cows drowned by the flood - from the Seattle P-I:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20071206/621FLOOD_572.jpg

^ that's disgusting....and i never knew cows couldn't swim/float. aren't they smart enough to run/walk away from rising water?

reminds me of news stories where whole herds of cows and sheep jumped off a cliff...it was like mass suicide.

four comments in response to the posts here:

1. The Waites air photos are really good. what they show is that there are a lot of "big boxes" along marine drive already; it's just that they are not big box stores, they are big box light industry. In terms of urban form alone, it will make no difference if they are warehouses or walmarts. all the big-box store hufery-puffery is just anti-walmart angst, of course. that's why canadian tire will soon be completed and operating.

also, the air photos show how giant superstore already is. canadian tire will be, and walmart would have been, not as large as superstore, in footprint.

2. re. the comment about a pedestrian route to the Canada Line Marine Drive station, there is a pretty quiet road along the back of these lots. It terminates on the east end at superstore, and at the west end at the City of Vanc. public works yard. I doubt that the city has any plans to alter their own operations to open up a pedestrian /cycling route there. One could lobby Gregor Robertson and Geoff Meggs, who are so pro-cycling that they want to tear down the Georgia and Dunsmuir viaducts, but I doubt that such a route would be approved when there is a route on Kent Avenue, one large block to the south.

3. The photo of the flooded walmart in Washington state is meaningful. certain flat and not-well-drained areas around here are prone to flooding, too. I am sure that building huge buildings and huge flat parking lots does not help with the drainage.

4. As to the debate about the market capacity and market impact studies, please be aware that these studies provide information to council when they are making a rezoning decision; they do not direct council. If council decides that they benenfits of a rezoning for a walmart outweigh the larage impact it would have on the retail market supply, that is their decision to make. I often find that in thse political debates, councilors and other political actors latch on to one technical point, and ride it for all it's worth, ignoring all other factors, and trying to convince others of their position while at the same time making out as if no one understands the technical studies except them.

further to my earlier post, I have looked at the City of Vancouver aerial photography, and it does look quite practical to establish a pedestrian/ bike route along the north side of the public works yard after all. See:

http://vanmapp.vancouver.ca/pubvanmap_net/default.aspx?scale=3615.654520386782&x=492084.332337714&y=5450690.067979052&showLayers=%5B%22parks_foreshore_contours%22%2C%22shore_lines%22%2C%22ortho_ecw2009one%22%5D&hideLayers=%5B%5D&showGroups=%5B%5D&hideGroups=%5B%5D