Sneakiest road camera revealed

David Ottewell and Deborah Linton
27/11/2007

http://m.gmgrd.co.uk/res/393.$plit/C_71_article_1026006_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.jpg?26/11/2007%2018:57:10:817

IS this the sneakiest camera in Britain?

Installed three weeks ago on the East Lancs Road near Salford, it will soon begin snapping motorists who jump red lights, seven days a week, 24 hours a day.

The camera - obscured by a huge road sign - is a new digital model and updates a previous camera that council chiefs say has been in place for 17 years.

But fuming motorists told the M.E.N. they hadn't noticed a camera there before - and said putting it behind a road sign was 'unfair'.

Salford council said the camera - on the A580 at its junction with the A572 Worsley Road - had to be close to the junction, and the sign had to be a certain size. That meant there was no alternative to putting the camera behind the sign, they said.

Under current government rules, a red-light camera DOES NOT have to be clearly visible to the motorist. A camera that checks for speeding DOES.

The council stressed that there were warning signs on the East Lancs Road alerting drivers to the camera's presence.

Coun Derek Antrobus said the camera was 'an important safety measure for pedestrians and motorists who use the busy junction'.

"It's also used as an enforcement tool to prosecute motorists who jeopardise the safety of others by running a red light," he said.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership said the camera was due to be commissioned in the `very near future' but they were working with Salford council to see if it could be made 'more visible'.

He added: "We are working together to reduce road casualties caused by red-light running and will continue to do all we can to physically make all our safety camera sites fully visible, where this is possible."

Rules

Shibu Thomas, owner of Power Petrol Station at the A580/A572 junction, said: "I'd never noticed it and none of my customers have ever said anything. We play by the rules by driving within the limit, so the council should, too."

Motorist Pat Tatum of Swinton, who was using the road to collect her grandchildren from school, said: "I'm not a dangerous driver, but I like to know where cameras are.

"I'm a law abiding citizen. It's not fair to conceal a camera."

Noel Rock, 66, from Eccles, said: "I spotted this a couple of months ago and it's about time something was done about it."

Mr Rock, a delivery driver who uses the road every day, added: "It shouldn't be hidden. They're trying to make victims out of motorists."

June Prescott, 41, of Worsley Road, who uses the A580 to get to work, said: "It's out of order. I only noticed it from the other side of the road. Like most drivers, I'm not perfect all the time, but at least I try to abide by the law."

And Joan Walsh, 65, who lives off the East Lancs Road, said: "It's sneaky.

"We use this road a lot. I'm a safe driver so I wouldn't want to think I'm being caught out."

Sean Corker, spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, said: "Cameras are supposed to be a deterrent.

"That was the reason given for bringing them in.

"If people go about hiding them then they can't act as a deterrent. They just become another way of raising revenue."

Its not a speed camera its a red light camera and you shouldn't be going through red lights anyway! Camera or no camera, its the law.

Don't go through a red light and it won't snap you. I don't really see why people are up in arms about this one, it's not a speed camera.

Breaking the speed limit - a bit naughty but not always a dangerous thing.
Jumping a red light - a fucking stupid thing to do and pretty much always a dangerous thing.

In conclusion :-
Speed cameras - a pain in the arse and not really a deterent but i suppose a part of modern life and they advertise them pretty heavily with signs and painting them bright yellow and all so you are a bit daft if you get caught.*
Red light cameras - a good thing and so what if they are hidden? I hope you get caught jumping a red light you nobheads.

*apart from the fucking twats in an unmarked van who caught me on Princess Parkway where it goes from 40 to 70 in a matter of yards and its a fucking motorway grade road anyway and you were just there to make loads of cash etc etc etc :rant:

It really depends on your view of cameras...

....are they there to generate revenue, or there as a deterrent. If they are there as a deterrent what use is it if it hidden? It's helping no-one and nothing by being hidden away.

And yes, *of course* jumping a light is stupid but the fact is people do it. The best way of making sure people don't do what they shouldn't, is to make it absolutely clear that every single transgression will be punished. So to be truly effective it needs to be visible.

Otherwise it's a tax, plain and simple.

So what if it is a tax?

Only dangerous law breakers have to pay this 'tax'.

Same as normal speed cameras - fucking easy 'tax' to avoid if you ask me - stop breaking the law and you will not have to pay it. Do you really need to get where you are going 30seconds earlier?

In fact, having thought about it, why not have millions of speed cameras all over the place, use all the revenue raised to allow for cuts in taxes elsewhere.

That way the criminals pay higher taxes, and the law abiding ones of us can have a tax cut.

It is a tax you can decide whether to pay or not - want to break the law and get home 30seconds earlier, well pay 40pounds to the Camera Tax and you can do (up to 4 times mind).

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

If this was a speed camera, I'd be annoyed but it's ok if it's only for going through red lights.

The should be more camera's (Hidden. Even better if someone could get that Romulan cloaking device I've heard of) to catch the amber gambler's and plain red light jumpers. Twats.

Should be much more focus on red light camera's imo. Red light jumping is far more dangerous than a going a few mph above the speed limit (constant speed limit's are daft anyway - Princess Parkway, bad weather, busy(ish) and getting dark, safe = 30mph. Same road, good, dry, clear weather, not busy, safe = 40-50 mph).

Might be me turning into a grumpy old git but, there this problem (jumping the lights) seems to be getting worse.

In fact, having thought about it, why not have millions of speed cameras all over the place, use all the revenue raised to allow for cuts in taxes elsewhere.

That way the criminals pay higher taxes, and the law abiding ones of us can have a tax cut.

It is a tax you can decide whether to pay or not - want to break the law and get home 30seconds earlier, well pay 40pounds to the Camera Tax and you can do (up to 4 times mind).

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

blimey... well that's the whole argument isn't it. If the revenue derived from *speed tax* was used to say improve the local roads or the local transport system not many people would have a problem with it... but it doesn't. It gets spent by central govt.

Should also have yellow box intruder cameras.

The amount of trams getting blocked crossing the road just south of St Peter's Sq the other night due to twats entering the box when they had no exit was ridiculous.

Give all the fuckers a 200 pound fine froma hidden camera and they would soon stop doing it - as would the rest of the population when they heard it was possible to get such a large fine.

The problem with making all cameras so visible is people believe it is ok to be a criminal when they cannot see a camera as they won't get caught.

So what if it goes to central government?

If they raise 1bn from speed cameras that is 1bn they don't have to find from the law abiding citizens or 1bn they have to make in cuts to services.

Why don't you simply obey the law if you don't want to pay this 'tax'?

I'd have them on every junction. And box junctions too.

Out of interest, what is so hard about obeying the laws of the road?

What happens to people when they get into a car that makes think it is perfectly ok to break the law?

I may not agree with some laws of the land, it does not however mean I simply go around ignoring them.

Absolutely. The laws of the land should be obeyed. As far as I can see it, that £1b you are talking about will get spent on bigger better nuclear weapons and warmongering though...

...now if we didn't have so much spare cash to throw at central govt we might keep our bullets to ourselves...

skybar topic?

skybar topic?

...possibly, its a Salford camera.... I'll chuck it in ES at the end of the day.

B4mmy, whether the government spend the money wisely is a totally different question from whether or not taxing criminals to subsidise the law abiding is a moral thing to do or not.

I think its ok to conceal speed cameras, other countries do, so why should England warn people, it would ensure more people are punished for committing a crime, which is a good thing!!!

I think its ok to conceal speed cameras, other countries do, so why should England warn people, it would ensure more people are punished for committing a crime, which is a good thing!!!

No they don't! It's actually against European law to hide speed camera's (which this isn't).

If a national road charging scheme gets implemented that utilizes GPS tracking devices in each car it would represent a huge oppurtunity to cut down on the vast amount of criminal driving that occurs right across the country.

From speeding to jumping red lights and entering yellow boxes, all of these offences could be severly punished on a fair basis - would probably on it's own lead to much less congestion.

No they don't! It's actually against European law to hide speed camera's (which this isn't).

Well, if they're not in the EU...

oh erm... yeah :)

If a national road charging scheme gets implemented that utilizes GPS tracking devices in each car it would represent a huge oppurtunity to cut down on the vast amount of criminal driving that occurs right across the country.

From speeding to jumping red lights and entering yellow boxes, all of these offences could be severly punished on a fair basis - would probably on it's own lead to much less congestion.

and NOT entering yellow box junctions when it's OK to do so (turning right, when the exit road is clear). So many idiots (usually in rush hour) sat there smugly thinking they are following the highway code by not entering the box junction, when they should be in the middle of it, ready to turn when it's clear. They should be shot and killed and that....

So what if it is a tax?

Only dangerous law breakers have to pay this 'tax'.

Same as normal speed cameras - fucking easy 'tax' to avoid if you ask me - stop breaking the law and you will not have to pay it. Do you really need to get where you are going 30seconds earlier?

Well said!! The only people who have anything to fear from cameras are law breakers. Whether they are just for raising revenue is a different subject altogether. Don't speed then you won't be prosecuted.

If there is a road of which isn't really clear what the maximum speed is and you get a postal prosecution, you appeal with photos and information on the road. Then if you do have a case, it is quashed. Two of my friends have had convictions quashed because of unclear speed limits on some country roads.

A challenge for those who think that it's perfectly ok to speed.

Tomorrow (if you drive to work), do not break any speed limits on your journey, drive at or below the limit - see just how little extra time it takes - I bet practically none.

A challenge for those who think that it's perfectly ok to speed.

Tomorrow (if you drive to work), do not break any speed limits on your journey, drive at or below the limit - see just how little extra time it takes - I bet practically none.

It's true. Years ago, i used to drive to friends in Blackburn and door to door it was 32 miles. I admit i used to drive at 80 mph on the motorway, but not anymore. I bought a brand new car and had to drive at 60 mph while running in. Not only was it a much more relaxing to drive, having more time to take things in and react to what was happening on the road, it only took just over 5 mins longer to get there. I was shocked, i thought it would take about 15 mins longer than the 30 mins it usually took.

And even more so for rush hour traffic going into town. I enjoy watching dicks undertake me in bus lanes and/or overtake me by using a right turn only lane to go straight on, just to pull up along side them at the next set of lights.

retep68 - Tell me you have never been through a light that is on amber in your life? If you want to have some one crash into the back of you then so be it. I agree that going through a red light is dangerous but some times you have to use your better judgement, before you go calling everyone twats.

As for sticking to the limit, thats all fine and dandy but who enjoys being stuck in a que behind someone who is doing 29pmh when the road ahead is straight, clear and theres no schools or even houses near by? Not me thats for sure

Oh yes, do not get me started about the idiots who go racing up to red lights, accelerating all the way and breaking at the last minute - no doubt the same people who complain about the price of petrol.

It's true. Years ago, i used to drive to friends in Blackburn and door to door it was 32 miles. I admit i used to drive at 80 mph on the motorway, but not anymore. I bought a brand new car and had to drive at 60 mph while running in. Not only was it a much more relaxing to drive, having more time to take things in and react to what was happening on the road, it only took just over 5 mins longer to get there. I was shocked, i thought it would take about 15 mins longer than the 30 mins it usually took.

I've (in my garage.. ahem) got a 5 litre Merc, and I never ever thrash it... even though it would be a hoot to do so. I love taking my time. Unless I'm in a hurry...

I've (in my garage.. ahem) got a 5 litre Merc, and I never ever thrash it... even though it would be a hoot to do so. I love taking my time. Unless I'm in a hurry...

Not a SEC by any chance?

Local lad - as I'm sure you are aware the camera in question only catches those that go through on red - not on amber.

As I'm sure you are also aware amber means stop, UNLESS it is dangerous to do so - i.e.you are going to go skidding through the lights, or cause a pile up. It really is not that hard to judge, and you certainly would not get done for going through on amber, if there were mitigating circumstances.

Out of interest, how much time do you think you are going to save by travelling at say 35mph instead of 29mph down this open road?

You'll sae about 2mins for every 10mins you go down this road - presuming that you are not obstructed by any traffic lights, or other delays. Why not leave a whole 2mins earlier, and relax instead of getting wound up about someone obeying the law?

retep68 - Tell me you have never been through a light that is on amber in your life? If you want to have some one crash into the back of you then so be it. I agree that going through a red light is dangerous but some times you have to use your better judgement, before you go calling everyone twats.

As for sticking to the limit, thats all fine and dandy but who enjoys being stuck in a que behind someone who is doing 29pmh when the road ahead is straight, clear and theres no schools or even houses near by? Not me thats for sure

Aye, amber can be OK (often is I guess) - depending on speed, conditions etc... however, if someone crashes into the back of me it will be because they were too close to me and their fault. It won't be my fault becuase I decided to stop when a light was changing to red (for the record - 23 years of driving, not one accident (seen thousands though). Done for speeding 3 times though (no complaints).

Are you really saying that sometimes you have to use your better judgement and go through red lights? Sorry but, twat seems the right description for that. Really can't think of a reason for ever going through a red.

As for not wanting to stick to 30mph when you've decided it's safe - must be good being absolutely sure that there's no kids about when you decide to do 40/50/60 in a 30. Guess you won't mind one bouncing off your windscreen?

Not a SEC by any chance?

SL

SL

Very nice B4mmy! Should make a nice sound. I used to have a 4.0 litre V8 auto' L/Rover Discovery which sounded great, but not as glamourous as an SL.

Ive been caught on camera twice.
I was fucked off both times but especially the time is doing 37 in a 30 at 3 o clock on a Sunday morning, which i dont consider worthy of prosecution. If a human being saw me doing 37 in a 30 they may of overlooked it. A camera has no reasoning.
Thats why i hate speed cameras.
The other time it was pretty much a fair cop and i was stupid (for getting caught ....not speeding...i was travelling at a speed i consider acceptable for the conditions....unfortunately GMP didnt agree!)

Ive been caught on camera twice.
I was fucked off both times but especially the time is doing 37 in a 30 at 3 o clock on a Sunday morning, which i dont consider worthy of prosecution. If a human being saw me doing 37 in a 30 they may of overlooked it. A camera has no reasoning.
Thats why i hate speed cameras.
The other time it was pretty much a fair cop and i was stupid (for getting caught ....not speeding...i was travelling at a speed i consider acceptable for the conditions....unfortunately GMP didnt agree!)

Well Longford, it's because of things like what happened outside my home at 2:20 am on a Sunday morning. A car travelling down the main road thought it would be ok to do 36 mph in a 30 limit. He then hit this young father who days later died in hospital. An officer said, if he had been travelling at the speed limit, he could have avoided the individual or at the very least, left him without life threatening injuries. So, think on!!

I just read this on youtube... this is where we are headed folks:

....I dislike speeders very much because they kill more people every year than through murder.

I propose that anyone who exceeds the speed limit by one mile over shall have there left foot cut off.

Those who turn a blind eye to a stop sign or signal, will have one eye plucked out.

...and those who give obscene gestures, will have that hand cut off.

See where this sickness leads?

I just read this on youtube... this is where we are headed folks:

Quote....I dislike speeders very much because they kill more people every year than through murder.

I propose that anyone who exceeds the speed limit by one mile over shall have there left foot cut off.

Those who turn a blind eye to a stop sign or signal, will have one eye plucked out.

...and those who give obscene gestures, will have that hand cut off.

See where this sickness leads?


See where this sickness leads? Sounds like a disability claim to me. :lol:

Maybe as an alternative to big fines, they could put them in the stocks and the public can throw rotten tomatoes at them. Or is that really prehistoric. LOL

I have to admit, last Sunday when I went to work at 6.45am, I jumped a few reds, but only where there wasn't another car/pedestrian/cyclist for miles around........and I generally know what kind of junctions have cameras.

Inexperienced drivers and puritanical naysayers......over to you.

Friend of mine didn't stop at a junction because it was 4am and he 'knew' there wouldn't be anyone else around. Killed two people in a car coming the other way. Million-to-one chance. I'd rather not play the odds. I can't stop you if you want to. I hope it's not me, my family or friends involved if you get unlucky.

Theres nothing sneaky about this camera, you shouldn't be running red lights anyway :dunno:

The turn traffic lights off at night in Italy.
Good idea imo.

The turn traffic lights off at night in Italy.
Good idea imo.

ummmm thats very dangerous. more accidents happen at night.

Friend of mine didn't stop at a junction

But I always stop at the lights first. What is the point of stopping on a red light directing Tesco carpark traffic at 6.45 on a Sunday?

But I always stop at the lights first. What is the point of stopping on a red light directing Tesco carpark traffic at 6.45 on a Sunday?

Sorry, misunderstood what you meant.

Remember, nobody has a right to drive, you have to earn that right everytime you drive. This means following the laws and if you don't like or agree with them then don't drive. It's a free country as long as you live within the laws of the land.