Harare | Zimbabwe | City Gallery [Archive]

StormShadow

December 6th, 2007, 07:32 PM

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StormShadow

December 6th, 2007, 10:39 PM

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StormShadow

December 7th, 2007, 11:59 PM

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boris89

December 8th, 2007, 05:13 AM

Tnks for posting those pictures........They were great....Dint have a clue Harare was that nice....

stoicman31

December 8th, 2007, 07:11 AM

Totally surprised. Harare is really beautiful, so organized, cleaned and relatively fewer hawkers disrupting the free flow of traffic.

StormShadow

December 10th, 2007, 02:42 AM

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abesha

December 10th, 2007, 05:45 AM

Thank you!

I love Harare, it's a VERY clean, well organized city. I enjoyed every visit. If only Mugabe would leave.:ohno:

thaichitsiga

December 10th, 2007, 01:51 PM

the centre is nice but i hear the suburbs where to lower classes live have fallen in despair, with open sewers and huge pot holes

StormShadow

December 12th, 2007, 06:51 AM

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StormShadow

January 5th, 2008, 12:28 AM

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StormShadow

January 5th, 2008, 12:38 AM

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abesha

January 5th, 2008, 12:48 AM

Great pics! There are a couple of pictures where I would've never recognized Harare. I would have guessed a completely different continent let alone city!

I adore Harare. I actually like it better than I like Nairobi. It was very VERY clean and not as crowded as Nairobi when I visited those two cities during the 90s.
The skyline seems like it has newer buildings too.
Nairobi has the tall towers though. Harare could definitely use a few very tall ones. I'm sure it will happen as soon as the dictator leaves and the economy restarts.

StormShadow

January 5th, 2008, 04:52 AM

^^ Interesting, that you had visited both cities and had the chance to experience it's environment.

Harare appears to be well-kept considering it's economic history. Harare from an higher or aerial view appears to have a lot of planned foliage which is a nice addition, same with Windhoek. The city just finished the development of a recent tower which will add to it's skyline's collection.

Kingofthehill

January 5th, 2008, 09:29 AM

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1219/541622325_0bdd8cbdfb_o.jpg

Looks like this building in Leeds,UK:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1182/1356960212_b714745a35_o.jpg

StormShadow

January 14th, 2008, 04:45 AM

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VGA

January 16th, 2008, 07:41 PM

Surprising, Harare has a very nice group of buildings downtown, i like the density and height of the skyline... i'm gladly surprised... didn't expect Harare were this way. nice city.

Khalfani

January 30th, 2008, 06:53 PM

You know it's funny that the people look suspiciously healthy, in terms nutrition, not the mass starvation pandemic that the media likes to portray....(not saying their isnt starvation in the countryside, but 3/4 of the country starving I find it hard to believe.

Gag Halfrunt

February 2nd, 2008, 02:42 AM

When were these photos taken? They might not represent current conditions in Zimbabwe.

StormShadow

February 2nd, 2008, 05:47 AM

Late 2006 - Late 2007.

StormShadow

February 20th, 2008, 01:42 AM

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nairoberry

February 22nd, 2008, 12:34 AM

this city is a manifestation of just what this country can do. why is this country being run down to a useless economy, why? i mean the whole of africa doesnt have one moral leader who could be asking such questions? just one leader? no one?( oh gosh mandela should be the president of africa. someone with just a littles sence of moral and sound leadership) why do zimbabweans just let the vices continue? what happened to accountability to your own pple? i think that if zimbabweans should stand up determine and fight for the destiny of their beautiful country and not wait for south africa and england to solve their problems

frankly speaking i would rather take one step back and then take two or three forward. relentless peaceful demonstrations and boycotts. mugabe and his bullets can only kill so many but the will of the pple always trumps the guns. the opposition dude tried all the leagal and diplomatic means and he has ended up nowhere so the time for talking is gone its time for actions. u have tried elections and they have been ruthlessly rigged so what more can the citizens do or put up with. it comes a point when zimbabweans put their foot down and say enough is enough. i am a kenyan and thats what is happening in my country the pple said enough is enough yes i dont support the killings but i fully support the pple that demonstrated and boycotted bcoz of them the once unwilling to talk govt finally gave in and agreed to sit down and talk, its the power of the pple. yes all u see on tv is violence but in five ten yrs kenya will be one of the best governed country in africa coz of the message sent by the kenyans and the lessons learned.

StormShadow

February 28th, 2008, 10:13 PM

http://www.cricketump.com/images/various/Harare,%20capital%20of%20Zimbabwe.JPG

Lagbuja

February 28th, 2008, 10:23 PM

http://www.cricketump.com/images/various/Harare,%20capital%20of%20Zimbabwe.JPG

Wow, this MUST be the best looking city in Africa. Even though Mugabe did screw up the whole ccountries economy and government, you have to admit that he does keep this city looking in EXCELLENT condition.

Lagbuja

February 28th, 2008, 10:24 PM

Tarrex

February 29th, 2008, 12:36 AM

^^I always find it funny how you always manage to double post:lol:

Lagbuja

February 29th, 2008, 12:38 AM

I know!!!!

I have a really crappy computer!

willayster

February 29th, 2008, 07:47 AM

harare, nice from far, far from nice.

rirwi4

February 29th, 2008, 11:39 AM

^^ very true! doesn't reflect the current situation! beautiful city, just disappointing about all of the others things that are going on.

But sorry this thread isn't supposed to be political just to be appreciative of how nice the city is and how nice it could become, just hard some times to separate the two.

StormShadow

March 6th, 2008, 01:28 AM

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Lagbuja

March 6th, 2008, 01:32 AM

jeffyl00b

March 6th, 2008, 02:07 AM

One thing I dont get is how does Zimbabwe manage to have all those new buildings while the Mugabe regime is SIGNIFICANTLY bankrupting the country?

BTW: Those buildings are DEFINATELY not pre-independance.

I thought China is supposed to be the largest investor.

How much of that was built since Rhodesia? Obviously the street system, trees and etc is from the old days.

Lagbuja

March 6th, 2008, 02:11 AM

I thought China is supposed to be the largest investor.

How much of that was built since Rhodesia? Obviously the street system, trees and etc is from the old days.

So, do you think Mugabes has done a lot of good for Zimbabwe?

jeffyl00b

March 6th, 2008, 02:23 AM

I can't stand him nor "Hitler" Hunzvi.
But I'm not African.

I have come up with a good rule of thumb over the years to judge if I correctly judge the state of a country. If there is an unusually large amount of people leaving or attempting to leave it.

I found this from almost a year ago:
Cde Nkomo said China was now the single-biggest investor in Zimbabwe with a portfolio of over US$600 million.
I'm not sure if that's small or large. Money buys different things in different countries. I'll assume it's more than a lot there.

StormShadow

March 6th, 2008, 02:41 AM

For comparative reason and analytic historical purpose only. Images of Harare's past. The intention of this post is not the entice negative emotions.

Salisbury, Rhodesia (Now known as Harare, Zimbabwe)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Flag_of_Rhodesia.svg/125px-Flag_of_Rhodesia.svg.png

http://photos.bravenet.com/218/501/314/4/8EEBBDC572.jpg

http://photos.bravenet.com/218/501/314/4/696C9B5FB5.jpg

http://rhodesian.server101.com/cityhall1.jpg

Salisbury 70's ?
IzdVx4HhTfA

Salisbury 1976
fK1QThivxtQ

nairoberry

March 6th, 2008, 03:57 AM

My hat goes off to this storm shadow guy. he finds pics that you would not find online. i highly apreciate your contribution to this forum

StormShadow

March 6th, 2008, 04:07 AM

My hat goes off to this storm shadow guy. he finds pics that you would not find online. i highly apreciate your contribution to this forum

Thanks, nairoberry. I greatly appreciate the accolade.

StormShadow

March 6th, 2008, 07:24 AM

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StormShadow

March 6th, 2008, 07:38 AM

Jason Moyo Avenue
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6777478.jpg

Greatermans
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6777463.jpg

Jakes1

March 6th, 2008, 09:12 AM

I was in Harare a while ago. Entire neighbourhoods were bulldozed in operation clean up the filth. 700 000thousand made homeless throughout the country, in the middle of winter. The roads are falling apart - there are no funds to repair them. The city is without power and water for prolonged periods. Even at our relatively posh hotel - certain foodstuffs were unatainable. In the expensive neighbourhoods, you see corn growing on the side of the road. It is not a working city. From the air it might look fine. On the ground, just outside the cbd - it is a different picture. This country's wheels have pretty much fallen off.

Matthias Offodile

March 6th, 2008, 11:27 AM

Jakes1

March 6th, 2008, 04:40 PM

Jakes1, certain countries still live long on myths and past success, Harare is the same like a certain African city in a particular country (although Harare is still in a suprisingly good shape considering Mugabe´s actions, I had said that before)... You might know to which city/country I am without enlarging upon it.

Here are some facts for you:

I work with a lot of Zimbabweans - as a political analyst it is one of our key areas of work.

Fact 1:
$100US buys you 20kg of local currency
The city? If you throw a party - everyone brings whatever they have: meat, drinks, alcohol, sigarettes: most stuff is in short supply
80% unemployed
crime going up
100 000% inflation

Harare looks fine from the sky - once you set your foot on the streets you realize how bad it has become.
Deserted shops, hotels that can't deliver the basic services, no cars (lack of petrol), long and extended periods without electricity, decaying road infrastructure.

People are scared to talk. You are not allowed to take pictures. When anyone from the office goes to Zim they take sugar, cooking oil, maize (stuff that people can't get anymore).

Harare looks fine from the sky. On the ground? Suffering, slowly decaying, loosing the vibrant spirit that was once a characteristic of this wonderful country and its people. I go to Zim quite often, and believe me, Harare is no success story. Its suburbs decay, the airport is a farce, the corruption is amazing.

Harare, jewel of Zimbabwe? Maybe - but all that glitters is not gold. Nor does one new office tower that took 8years to complete herald the turnaround of a economically and politically decaying society.

annman

March 6th, 2008, 05:16 PM

Harkeb

March 6th, 2008, 09:42 PM

Thanks Stormshadow for the great pics. However the situation in Zim is deteriorating by the day. So, its difficult to be updated on the state of Harare

To analyze your pictures, Itd be more accurate to say that Harare has gone from....
this
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7538/48802157fa9.jpg

to this, especially since SA cant afford to supply them with power anymore
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6127/15342897zt2.jpg

and this
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8649/30980651qg0.jpg

to this.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1010/539851809_85c34260b3_o.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3311/4680123xi6.jpg

However, I believe the city could still be turned around. But that's another topic for another day.

KomSakkie

March 6th, 2008, 11:11 PM

Has SA really cut off power to Zim. I was under the impression we had decided against it.

On a different topic, great pictures StormShadow, Harare, despite the situation is certainly looking clean and beautiful.

Mosi-oa-Tunya

March 14th, 2008, 06:33 PM

Jakes, I will back you up on that 100%. I have family that lost their farm in Zimbabwe, were chaced off like dogs by the "war-vets" and they still adore the country. Thus, they are still there trying to make a meagre living. And yes... the country is chaos... they cannot buy bread, milk, cement, wood, meat... it's crazy!!! They are scared to death of the authorities and there is no freedom for any Zimbabwean. No matter what anyone says, I will never ever believe that Mugabe is justified in anyway in any action he has taken... he is a totalitarian and a fascist. And, a little inside info, I know Mugabe's niece very well, she lives in Joburg and went to Wits... she says herself, her uncle's gone psycho in the head, that he's mentally sick!

From the Horses Mouth people!!!!

How can any believe what the tyrant says. I think they are delusional if they support Mugabe and his policies that have destroyed what was once a great country. I hope rather hopelessly that dictator Robert Mugabe will be tossed out in the March 29th election. That is the only way we can end this nightmare. I support Morgan Tsvangirai of the MDC but I think that Simba Makoni who is an independent who leads a breakaway faction of ZANU-PF as well as the Arthur Muthambara faction of the MDC stands a better chance than Morgan.

Mosi-oa-Tunya

March 14th, 2008, 06:35 PM

Mulema

March 14th, 2008, 07:42 PM

WHAT IS THE PRESENT STATE OF ZIM? I HAVEN'T BEEN FOLLOWING THE NEWS ON ZIM AS OF RECENT

RIDICULOUS TO HAVE A 7500% INFLATION. I AM ONLY 19 BUT I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS

Mulema

March 14th, 2008, 07:50 PM

I WOULD LIKE TO TRAVEL THERE, I HEAR SHE HAS BEAUTIFUL NATURAL LANDSCAPE. IT IS A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY MESSED UP BY AN IDIOTIC LEADER. IT IS ALWAYS THE CASE WITH AFRICA.

Lagbuja

March 15th, 2008, 02:07 AM

WHAT IS THE PRESENT STATE OF ZIM? I HAVEN'T BEEN FOLLOWING THE NEWS ON ZIM AS OF RECENT

RIDICULOUS TO HAVE A 7500% INFLATION. I AM ONLY 19 BUT I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS

Zimbabwe is EASILY the best looking city in ALL of Africa, except for Johannesburg. The country is still under crappy leadership, it seems to get way worse every 3 years or so. To sum things up, the military are still raping civilians, inflation is still exploding, AIDS is still a massive problem [highest AIDS rate on the face of the planet].v

BTW, The inflation is 100,000%+ I AM ONLY 15 BUT I KNEW THAT.:lol:

Kenguy

March 22nd, 2008, 05:40 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2300336240_6c391e9828_b.jpg

Kenguy

March 22nd, 2008, 05:46 PM

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/20546633_d15b5f7f9e_o.jpg

Kenguy

March 22nd, 2008, 05:48 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2300347568_42c0729e6c_b.jpg

Matthias Offodile

March 23rd, 2008, 04:39 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2300347568_42c0729e6c_b.jpg

Great shot, Kenyguy!

steve_nova

March 24th, 2008, 12:23 AM

Nice to see this African city. Some is really quite modern too. I love the proportions and stonework of that church tower.

StormShadow

March 24th, 2008, 01:31 AM

Thanks for the pics, Kenguy!

StormShadow

March 24th, 2008, 02:04 AM

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8792/h1es9.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5058/h2bp7.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2568/h3ie6.jpg

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Kenguy

March 24th, 2008, 09:52 AM

Interesting mix of traditional and modern- Harare Gardens.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/2126620578_5ab7b022f5_b.jpg

Kenguy

March 24th, 2008, 09:54 AM

Joina centre from a distance.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2105775714_37d875d2db_b.jpg

Kenguy

March 24th, 2008, 10:31 AM

Harare International Airport.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1374/692075011_39d1933474_o.jpg

Saigoneseguy

March 24th, 2008, 10:58 AM

Looks MUCH better than i've thought.

Kenguy

March 27th, 2008, 02:14 PM

I wish i had a bigger pic.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2352255080_66625ea636_o.jpg

Lagbuja

March 29th, 2008, 06:45 PM

Beautiful Pictures,but I have a little question, were these buildings built by the Mugabe regime or the rich white ettlers that used to reside in Zimbabwe?

Kenguy

March 30th, 2008, 08:42 AM

Beautiful Pictures,but I have a little question, were these buildings built by the Mugabe regime or the rich white ettlers that used to reside in Zimbabwe?
^^
I'd say they were built both during the colonial and Mugabe's regime. (Obviously all the glass clad buildings were built post 1980 when zim got its independence) Zimbabwe prospered in the 80's and early 90's under Mugabe.

Kenguy

April 2nd, 2008, 05:44 PM

Harare on election day. (Kinda quiet.)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2125/2379955628_dca148d397_o.jpg

Kenguy

April 2nd, 2008, 05:45 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2119/2379944422_a53144e8c7_o.jpg

nairoberry

May 11th, 2008, 01:10 AM

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2281392732_45f55d2a03_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2281394502_a3bb0fcaaa_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2300335258_0210879515_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2300335838_5712dca78a_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2300336240_6c391e9828_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2300345810_289964da4c_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2379975322_a29d1a44a2_o.jpg

nairoberry

May 11th, 2008, 01:14 AM

NOTICE THE MARTIN LUTHER KING ON THE BILLBOARD!!!! i wonder if mugabe the nut job he is understands any of such quotes

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2435390181_6504de4abc_b.jpg

@ the airport. Note the stained carpet
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/1888677437_d0bb11afbc_o.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2435399675_8142e84a84_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2436207690_123f929e80_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2436208282_8bd3319318_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2436216226_4770e1d5e9_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2438970075_effcef0e6b_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2438972681_55c5bcfc8b_b.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/kenyanforever/2439792906_485aa61f21_b.jpg

Kenguy

June 26th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Lovely Harare.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3222/2453218391_d2f6f55895_b.jpg

ewangai

June 27th, 2008, 10:25 AM

amazing city. everything i wish nairobi was.

Tbite

June 28th, 2008, 07:33 AM

Looks MUCH better than i've thought.

It was destined to become one of Africa's most prosperous countries :)

friendsofthecity

June 28th, 2008, 12:49 PM

But, the destiny wanes with the present Mugabe stand.

friendsofthecity

June 28th, 2008, 12:50 PM

But, the destiny wanes with the present Mugabe stand.

daniel-llerandi

July 4th, 2008, 09:02 PM

Beautiful city!!!!! People of Zimbabwe you have to be in the top of Africa!!!!! stop Mugabe and be again an african lion!!!!!

bashuple

September 15th, 2008, 12:12 AM

Beautiful Harare, i wonder if it will ever recover to resume its position as it once was,the jewel of africa. As South African, i will still be a bit apprehensive though, to visit Zim once things are normalized for fear of retribution following stupid homophobic attack against foreigners. Good luck comrades.

zimkid11

October 19th, 2008, 04:09 PM

SormShadow, the picture third photograph from the post "Salisbuy, Rhodesia" is not of Harare, but rather of Bulawayo, circa 1995-2000. The blue roofed building in the foreground is the Josiah Tongogara brach of Barclays Bank (notice the ATM on the right side of the building). ATM technology was available in Zimbabwe until the early 1990s. This building previously had a silver roof on it, and was reroofed with the Blue when Barclays released its new corporate logo (3/4 eagle on circle) in the mid 1990s. The white tower in the left midground is the clock tower on the Bulawayo City Hall. Judging by the appearant consistent wear of long-sleeves by the people in the picture and the foliage on the trees the picture was taken in late March or early April. The vehicles are definately late 1980's to mid 1990's models and relevant to the fact that at that time vehicles available in zimbabwe did not advance in models available in south africa or other countries.

Regardless, the pictures show a better time in the country and the extent to which Bob has ruined a once properous nation.

MBA-Congo

October 19th, 2008, 04:57 PM

Zimbabwe is headed for better times, much more better times than many.

Francisco rj

October 31st, 2008, 05:28 AM

beautiful city.. and a better future to Zimbabwe. it´s people deserve.

dvno_dvno_dvno

January 16th, 2009, 11:16 AM

amazing city. everything i wish nairobi was.

I bet you would never want Nairobi be a shithole like Harare. A bunch of 90s glassy skyscrapers doesn't make a livable city. Harare is a complete mess right now with no health system, no education, no food, no money and people starving at home, dying from cholera at home, on the streets and inside the rundown hospitals. Harare is a deflated capital of the poorest country in the world. At least you kenyans can be sure that a better future will shine your country, but zimbabweans are waiting for a painful way to starvation, disease and violence. :ohno:

Kenguy

January 16th, 2009, 04:43 PM

I bet you would never want Nairobi be a shithole like Harare. A bunch of 90s glassy skyscrapers doesn't make a livable city. Harare is a complete mess right now with no health system, no education, no food, no money and people starving at home, dying from cholera at home, on the streets and inside the rundown hospitals. Harare is a deflated capital of the poorest country in the world. At least you kenyans can be sure that a better future will shine your country, but zimbabweans are waiting for a painful way to starvation, disease and violence. :ohno:

I think you are wrong. Zimbabwe will rise again someday. IMO if Nairobi ever had a sister city on the continent, it would be Harare. It's similar in many aspects.

dvno_dvno_dvno

January 17th, 2009, 11:35 AM

I think you are wrong. Zimbabwe will rise again someday. IMO if Nairobi ever had a sister city on the continent, it would be Harare. It's similar in many aspects.

Of course it will rise again, but not in the near future. Even the most optimistic analysts said last year when conditions were not as bad as now that Zimbabwe recovery would take at least 12 years to achieve the levels of 1990. Now it's 2009 and things are even worse with no sign of improvement. Let's face it, Zimbabwe is and will be a failed state for at least the next 30 years. No country in the world has ever experienced such a dramatic economic meltdown.

Mwafrika

January 17th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Of course it will rise again, but not in the near future. Even the most optimistic analysts said last year when conditions were not as bad as now that Zimbabwe recovery would take at least 12 years to achieve the levels of 1990. Now it's 2009 and things are even worse with no sign of improvement. Let's face it, Zimbabwe is and will be a failed state for at least the next 30 years. No country in the world has ever experienced such a dramatic economic meltdown.

Zimbabwe is not a write off...I think 30yrs is an over exaggeration... everything is still in place, just mismanagement of resources. They still have the highest literacy rates in Africa. Zimbabwe will be back sooner than this "experts" claim. Just a change of leadership is all they need.

africanman

January 26th, 2009, 06:49 PM

I think Harare was planned better than Nairobi. From 1980 to 2002 when we had that illeterate Moi, Nairobi was totally abused and buildings were build without any real long term planning.
Nairobi is now in the process of building better roads and upgrading infrustructure just like other cities in Kenya but Nairobi is an example of what not to do because it has been alot of work to make the city liveable and convenient.

Zimbo

February 4th, 2009, 06:18 PM

I long for positive change in my country again. I want to see cranes building modern tall buildings again as we boomed in the 1990's when I was growing up. Bulawayo needs to grow too but hasnt changed much due to Mugabe neglecting matabelle land. It is a naturally rich country with second best platinum reserves, large gold deposits, diamonds, coal, chrome..the list goes on and a climate to grow almost anything!!!! If Mugabe played his cards right Zimbabwe would/could have been the most sucessful country in Africe given the small population with rich resources. I hope change comes soon. Thanks for the pics on postiungs they are great.

StormShadow

February 20th, 2009, 11:30 PM

It's becoming harder and harder, finding at least "recent" pictures of this city than it was before.

http://f.imagehost.org/0891/HarareNov_2008.jpg

Gulivar

February 21st, 2009, 02:12 PM

'Twas a beautiful city. It still is, but for how much longer?

Matthias Offodile

February 21st, 2009, 11:11 PM

If Mugabe played his cards right Zimbabwe would/could have been the most sucessful country in Africe given the small population with rich resources

This could be said for almost any other country in Africa too...this is nothing typical of Zimbabwe...africa is rich in "if"-clauses, coulds woulds shoulds

vittelksa

March 12th, 2009, 07:28 PM

This is a HOTTT city :)
Yep that’s right the majestic city of Salisbury :)

vittelksa

March 12th, 2009, 07:29 PM

Beautiful city!!!!! People of Zimbabwe you have to be in the top of Africa!!!!! stop Mugabe and be again an african lion!!!!!

Better more bring Rhodesia back? :)

BUTEMBO21

March 12th, 2009, 07:45 PM

Better more bring Rhodesia back? :)

Rhodesia back? must dreaming.

Kenguy

March 13th, 2009, 12:52 PM

Rhodesia back? must dreaming.
^^
Ignore him or this thread will turn ugly.:ohno:

vittelksa

March 13th, 2009, 01:17 PM

Die Kapenaar

March 13th, 2009, 08:01 PM

When Zimbabwe, then Southern Rhodesia, was under white rule, the ANC demanded the ouster of Prime Minister Ian Smith and the installation of black rule. Today, Zimbabwe's Minister Robert Mugabe commits gross violations of black and white human rights. With the help of lawless thugs, Mugabe has undertaken a land-confiscation program from white farmers. Instead of condemning Zimbabwe human-rights abuses, the South African government has given Mugabe its unqualified support.

Ian Smith was far worse than Mugabe can ever dream of becoming but Zimbabwe will never again be a colony of Britain or ruled by a racist white minority as it was under Smith. One has to remember that the mess Zimbabwe finds itself in today has it's origins in colonial subjegation and exploitation, a fact that led to the Zimbabwean people to take up arms to become independent. Of course what happened 20 years after freedom was won is a sad story of tyranny and authoritarian rule by Robert Mugabe.

popa1980

March 13th, 2009, 08:38 PM

This could be said for almost any other country in Africa too...this is nothing typical of Zimbabwe...africa is rich in "if"-clauses, coulds woulds shoulds

True. Ifs and ifs.

vittelksa

March 13th, 2009, 11:10 PM

Ian Smith was far worse than Mugabe can ever dream of becoming but Zimbabwe will never again be a colony of Britain or ruled by a racist white minority as it was under Smith. One has to remember that the mess Zimbabwe finds itself in today has it's origins in colonial subjegation and exploitation, a fact that led to the Zimbabwean people to take up arms to become independent. Of course what happened 20 years after freedom was won is a sad story of tyranny and authoritarian rule by Robert Mugabe.

Absolutely I agree. All I was doing is contrasting in a humors fashion between Rhodesia and how successful it was and modern day Zimbabwe.
Its best not to blame Britain, lets not forget the British fought the Afrikaners, in the cape to secure the basic human rights of the blacks in the cape region which led to the Boer wars and the establishment of Transvaal, and lets not forget that it was Britain which ended the rule of the renegade Ian Smith.

BUTEMBO21

March 15th, 2009, 08:53 AM

vittelksa

March 15th, 2009, 09:21 PM

vittelksa

March 15th, 2009, 09:22 PM

I heard that South Africa and even Namibia are considering similar policies to those adopted by Mugabe. It would be a shame to see Mugabe’s cancerous polices spreading in Southern Africa.

Get Smart

March 15th, 2009, 10:06 PM

harare looks great in the pictures, very clean and modern

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/353001241_588defe38e_b.jpg

pu$$ey and pain PUGSHITE dealer :rofl: :lol:

BUTEMBO21

March 16th, 2009, 08:49 AM

I heard that South Africa and even Namibia are considering similar policies to those adopted by Mugabe. It would be a shame to see Mugabe’s cancerous polices spreading in Southern Africa.

Mugabe didn't start the land policy, It started in DRC ( Then Zaire), Zambia , Tanzania , Malawi back in the 70s , Mugabe did it the wrong way, but he was just continiun a revolutionary land policy . Namibia will do it no matter what any country thinks. South Africa will take longer but will do it eventually.

BUTEMBO21

March 16th, 2009, 09:05 AM

I think South Africa could have intervened more....into her neighbors domestic affairs, in 1996 when Lesotho threatened to cut water supply from Johannesburg...it was Nelson Mandela’s government who ordered an air strike on South Africa’s smaller and weaker neighbor, I am not saying that South Africa should escalate matters to that extent with Zimbabwe...but I think South Africa could have played a more active role in its dealings with Mugabe.

Well South Africa is the region's Superpower both militarily and economically.
No one will tolate a little neighbor like Lesotho to threaten millions of people. They had to be punished.

Anyways ....South africa can't act like a police in that neighborhood. Silent diplomacy was the best way to intervene.

Please describe how you think SA should have intervened in dealing with MUGABE?

AucklandloverUK

March 18th, 2009, 12:44 PM

I can argue this from a Western viewpoint, Mugabe is one of THE most hated figures in the West, especially in Britain, he often uses the old "Britain wants its colony back" excuse on EU, UN and US policy which damages his image or the economy. Its a stupid argument and frankly if you asked the British what they thought most would shocked that anyone could believe it. Apartheid was hated and Mandela adored here - due to his ideology of peace and forgiveness and rebuilding the future together etc. however Mugabe has done the opposite - to his own ppl, white and black! The West has little sway over Zimbabwe due to Mugabe's rantings and so we look to SA to intervene for the good. SA likes to promote itself of good human rights -so why havent they put pressure on Mugabe? With the thousands of refugees that have entered the country (and were meet with unpopularity and xenophobia) surely the SA government has its own reasons to intervene. I hope that in the future democracy can return and Zimbabwe cna reach its full protentional!!! Rant over!

BUTEMBO21

March 18th, 2009, 01:28 PM

^^ Finally someone understand what it's all about.

Zimbo

March 30th, 2009, 11:23 PM

I wonder if in the current situation ZImbabwe is in if a white leader had behaved as mugabe has would the other African leaders still keep quiet? Whether it is white against black, black against white, black against black etc it is wrong what has happened in Zimbabwe (the way mugabe has ruled). Although I was not long born and we became Zimbabwe the standad of living even under the opression was higher than most other Afican countries and the opression I was told was not as extereme as South Africa ( oprssion in general is wrong anyway or form). I also beleive that Ian Smith had more black people as friends than actaully mugabe has. As for South Africas attitude...it stinks. They have ignored and failed to stand up for what is right and condone outright what is wrong. Africa in general apart from the civilised Botswana, is afriad of proper democracy and the MDC in Zimbabwe by offering a proper democracy that being a young innovative multi-racial and gender party; seems a threat to their corrupt evil dictatorships acroos the continent. We are a new generation not built on wars, however it is good to remember history but we need to look forward as all mugabe can do is look backward. The winds of change are here and Zimbabwe neds to rise out of the ashes!

Zimbo

March 30th, 2009, 11:27 PM

I have some pics of Harare guys but what is a SIMPLE WAY of loading them? I am due to be visitng my home country Zimbabwe in Oct this year and will take lots of photos so I can share them on here. Just need to know how to upload them. Please keep the pics coming. Thanks

BUTEMBO21

March 31st, 2009, 02:05 AM

buhera

April 1st, 2009, 02:01 AM

It is the responsability of Zimbabweans to fix their Problems not other countries's problem and every country have it own problems , seriuos problems .

Thats true but the converse could have been said about apartheid South Africa,the region was destabilized by SA forces including bombings we could have said the same then as some countries were just newly independent nations like Namibia(1990) and Zim(1980). The reason why Zimbabweans say this about SA is that they have in a way helped facilitate Mugabe's stay in power, we had an election observer from South Africa proclaiming elections free and fair before they were held and its not exactly a secret that they prefer ZANU in power in one form or another. They really could help if they accept that their comrade is not really that popular anymore and stop covering for him. Anyway this doesn't surprise me considering we are in a continent that has stood by even when more heinous acts than whats happening in Zim have been perpetrated by leaders they are unwilling to hold to account

BUTEMBO21

April 1st, 2009, 05:33 AM

Thats true but the converse could have been said about apartheid South Africa,the region was destabilized by SA forces including bombings we could have said the same then as some countries were just newly independent nations like Namibia(1990) and Zim(1980). The reason why Zimbabweans say this about SA is that they have in a way helped facilitate Mugabe's stay in power, we had an election observer from South Africa proclaiming elections free and fair before they were held and its not exactly a secret that they prefer ZANU in power in one form or another. They really could help if they accept that their comrade is not really that popular anymore and stop covering for him. Anyway this doesn't surprise me considering we are in a continent that has stood by even when more heinous acts than whats happening in Zim have been perpetrated by leaders they are unwilling to hold to account

That's because ANC and ZANU are comrades , they struggled togather . did you forget that ? It doesn't mean South africans are happy with what has hapened in Zimbabwe. But it's no joke to just go and mangle in your freind and Brothers affaires.

Aparthied was viewd the same as the coloninizers. Mugabe got to go so that the country comes back to progress. But you must understand that it sin't easy to give your brother whom you suffered and struggled togather for a very long time.

MBA-Congo

April 1st, 2009, 05:57 AM

Plus people forget that the key conflict in this is land. Who ever controls it control the economy and therefore the nation as a whole. All the easy remedy the Desmond Tutu and other messiah like peers that the world may want to bring into the issue will fall on deaf ears. We can mask it with all the other nonesense like cholera, election fraud, police bruatality or political intimadition all this wasn't in the news before that key issue regarding land ownership was brought into the picture. That issue is what divide Zimbabwe in half not just Mugabe, he isn't god to assert all that emotion people have to be deeply engaged. Even if he stole the election he still got half of the nation to support him. We can sugar coat and blame Mugabe for everything but the man didn't lift a single finger. This raw emotion regarding land runs deep in Africa and Zimbabwe isn't different on it path to complete decolonization. 1980, 1990, and 1994 this is fresh in the minds of some within this generation. People were either in middle school or elementary when this nations gained their independance. And like any other nation before it Land must be brought back to its rightful heirs. I mean who the hell says lets get independance and that it. Land is the root cause for that independance struggle.

BUTEMBO21

April 1st, 2009, 11:11 AM

Thats true but the converse could have been said about apartheid South Africa,the region was destabilized by SA forces including bombings we could have said the same then as some countries were just newly independent nations like Namibia(1990) and Zim(1980). The reason why Zimbabweans say this about SA is that they have in a way helped facilitate Mugabe's stay in power, we had an election observer from South Africa proclaiming elections free and fair before they were held and its not exactly a secret that they prefer ZANU in power in one form or another. They really could help if they accept that their comrade is not really that popular anymore and stop covering for him. Anyway this doesn't surprise me considering we are in a continent that has stood by even when more heinous acts than whats happening in Zim have been perpetrated by leaders they are unwilling to hold to account

The botto line is that ZANU and Mugabe messed up the way they redistributed the LAND .

The Land = Country, Country = Land., No Land no country. No Country no freedom.

If you don't own your Land , you don't own your country and Zimbabweans didn't own their country because they dind't own their Land.
Am i wrong? Correct me if i'm ..

Politicians are just politicians, i do have great respect for Zimbabwea people and to you. I can careless about Mugabe and Zanu.
But the facts are that Zimbabweans have their own LAND back and not the Colonists . It will be history that ZANU and Mugabe faught a hard , long, painful war in the interst of the Zimbabweans people.

I know this may sound crazy to some people especially to you because of the situation that the Zimbabwean people are going through wherever they maybe.

One cannot get great victory without sacrifices.

buhera

April 1st, 2009, 06:03 PM

The botto line is that ZANU and Mugabe messed up the way they redistributed the LAND .

The Land = Country, Country = Land., No Land no country. No Country no freedom.

If you don't own your Land , you don't own your country and Zimbabweans didn't own their country because they dind't own their Land.
Am i wrong? Correct me if i'm ..

Politicians are just politicians, i do have great respect for Zimbabwea people and to you. I can careless about Mugabe and Zanu.
But the facts are that Zimbabweans have their own LAND back and not the Colonists . It will be history that ZANU and Mugabe faught a hard , long, painful war in the interst of the Zimbabweans people.

I know this may sound crazy to some people especially to you because of the situation that the Zimbabwean people are going through wherever they maybe.

One cannot get great victory without sacrifices.

Thats one of the problems, people forget that Mugabe was unpopular before the land reform started, the MDC was formed 9 months before the election and managed to win a lot of seats especially in the urban areas where ZANU last won convincingly in 1995, in the last election it also lost lots of rural constituencies and its support there has gradually waned because of its thuggish behaviour towards its own people , i was in Mberengwa a rural area during the 2000 elections and many people were living in fear of ZANU PF if you did not have a card you could not board a bus thats why they have lost support. Colonists ,land and all that are just words but politicians are judged by actions and you cannot ad nauseum talk about land out of one side of your mouth then murder your own people and expect to run a country that way. The first people to occupy white farmers land were villagers from the Svosve area and they were dumped onto some resettlement scheme and never heard of again.

If you look at Zimbabwe's history from 1980 onwards it involves the murder of thousands of ndebeles by Mugabe, the involvement of Zim in an unpopular war when there was trouble at home , and the failure to deal with issues affecting many people in the urban areas and then the murder of MDC activists. The main problem now is that with all those people gunning for Mugabe and ZANU's head will they feel safe retiring , of course they wont thats why we hear talk about land and other issues but the real reason we are in this situation is that Mugabe probably feels no one can guarantee him safety if he leaves power because of all those things.

A quarter of the population has left , including teh most skilled people are they running away from ownership of the country some of them leave in squalid conditions in SA with teachers being employed as gardners and maids are they running away from owning the country. The use of land as a ruse to cover up for ZANU's incompetence works better and sounds better to outsiders than Zimbabweans hence the performance of MDC at the polls.

buhera

April 1st, 2009, 06:15 PM

That's because ANC and ZANU are comrades , they struggled togather . did you forget that ? It doesn't mean South africans are happy with what has hapened in Zimbabwe. But it's no joke to just go and mangle in your freind and Brothers affaires.

Aparthied was viewd the same as the coloninizers. Mugabe got to go so that the country comes back to progress. But you must understand that it sin't easy to give your brother whom you suffered and struggled togather for a very long time.

Thats the point ,on reputation alone you will be surprised that ZANU and the former colonisers are being viewed in equal terms .The problem for Southern African liberation parties is to face the same situation that UNIP found itself in, you can only talk about liberation for so long until it starts to wear out and once you are out of power the road to redemption is long if you can get back in at all , KANU is less of a factor in Kenya i hardly hear of UNIP anymore. Many of these people had the leadership required in the liberation fight but many lack the governance skill hence they constantly talk about that era.

What the SA leadership feels about Zim and what the people on the ground are 2 diametrically opposite things, even before the xenophobia attacks many Zimbabweans have never felt welcome in that country even the authorities there know this for a fact but are reluctant to accept it.If comradeship of leaders is more important than human rights and dignity of the people they lead then there is little hope in our region

Die Kapenaar

April 2nd, 2009, 12:16 AM

That's enough of driving Zimbabwe into the ground.

Let's get some new pictures of Harare, which is still one of the loveliest cities in Africa.

StormShadow

April 5th, 2009, 07:08 PM

We will try, not an easy task locating up to date images of this city. I'm becoming interested again with posting images, so I'll see what I can do. =D

Zimbo

April 6th, 2009, 09:40 PM

Thanks stormshadow it will be great to see more pics of the cities in Zimbabwe. As I said when I go visit Zim ( my home land) end of Sept this year I will take loads of photos so that I can share with you guys on here. Just need to learn how to upload as I do not understabnd what a URL is and if there is another way of uploading!!!

Ras Siyan

April 7th, 2009, 07:49 PM

Mon Dieu, HARARE is such a beautiful, clean, modern and well-organised city. I used to read a lot about Zimbabwe being an African Lion (highest literacy rates ect...) but by looking into these photos of Harare, one simply gets what Zimbabwe used to be: a nation on the rise.

I am feeling intense sadness for the people of this wonderful nation, and intense shame for our inaction (us the rest of Africa). But Mugabe won't last, he'll leave one day, and Zimbabwe will rise again.

Love from Djibouti...

StromShadow, can't thank you enough for this wonderful work! You convinced me to add Zimbabwe to the places to see before I die...

Zimbo

April 9th, 2009, 12:05 PM

c:\mypictures\Harare & Byo\100_040-2

Some photos I took whilst visiting home (Harare in Zimbabwe)

Zimbo

April 9th, 2009, 12:30 PM

guys im struggling to upload how do u do it?

abesha

April 10th, 2009, 02:41 AM

Zimbo, use www.imageshack.us . Select your file from your computer using the "browse" tab. Then click, "open." It should be added in the box under the "browse" tab.
Now click "start upload."
After it uploads, choose one of the 2 links towards the bottom of the screen that says "hotlink for forums," copy the address, then paste it here.

You can upload one image at a time like this. If it's a whole album, I suggest you open an account at www.flickr.com, www.picasa.com, www.photobucket.com, etc, upload your album, then post a link here.

Kwame

April 12th, 2009, 12:58 AM

Harare, Zimbabwe in March, 2009

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3595/3351627223_a303f691ac_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3352454820_32024d8a6e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3352457786_abe89aaf9a_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3352460866_cb97a31b7e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3352463120_07f0e9c64f_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3472/3351641151_f4df1eb9b5_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3584/3351644299_4cbc60bdb5_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3570/3352472340_110ae27f86_b.jpg

Source: Flickr (mifl68 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mifl68/))

The E.N.D

April 12th, 2009, 02:40 AM

^^ Thanks dude.I know it sounds silly but I'm always amazed when I see pics of a still standing Harare.I'm with a Zimbabwean and she has nothing but praise for her city.

adgaps

April 12th, 2009, 04:01 AM

Zimbabwe is a nice country... Mugabe's government just destroys it...

Zimbo

April 14th, 2009, 09:37 AM

http://http://img27.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=harare4.jpg

Zimbo

April 14th, 2009, 09:39 AM

I try again

Zimbo

April 14th, 2009, 09:43 AM

http://http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9115/harare4.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harare4.jpg)

Zimbo

April 14th, 2009, 09:45 AM

Kenguy

April 14th, 2009, 04:42 PM

sorry guys I am not having much luck. I am trying Abeshas advice and half way there. Just cant find the "
"After it uploads, choose one of the 2 links towards the bottom of the screen that says "hotlink for forums," copy the address, then paste it here." WIsh I was more computer literate!!!!! lol

Just keep on trying. most of us never got it the first time.

You are to blame

April 15th, 2009, 09:42 AM

sorry guys I am not having much luck. I am trying Abeshas advice and half way there. Just cant find the "
"After it uploads, choose one of the 2 links towards the bottom of the screen that says "hotlink for forums," copy the address, then paste it here." WIsh I was more computer literate!!!!! lol

here you go

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9115/harare4.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7065/hararebritishembassy.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3063/harare5.jpg

StormShadow

April 30th, 2009, 03:29 AM

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9941/harare3.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harare3.jpg) http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/7282/harare2.th.jpg (http://img2.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harare2.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1309/harare1.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harare1.jpg)

mwanamwiwa

April 30th, 2009, 03:46 AM

http://www.met.gov.zw/images/harare001.png
http://www.centralr.com/img/towns/downtown_harare.jpg
http://www.fareaway.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/harare_city_center.jpg
http://www.fareaway.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/harare_city.jpg
http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/RHPOD/733-91~City-Centre-Harare-Zimbabwe-Posters.jpg
http://www.funsahara.co.uk/travel/images/Zimbabwe-Harare.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/070ZfIC3ZcaQR/610x.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_myYfMF0sSpk/SQXWsxRn63I/AAAAAAAAF6I/e14sdh14040/s400/DSCN1586.JPG
http://www.thezimbabwemail.com/thumbnail.php?file=Photo0029_721637315.jpg&size=article_medium

Vakai

April 30th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Well i am visiting Zim in June. I will post pictures of Borrowdale, the neighborhood that i was raised in.

Kenguy

May 1st, 2009, 08:53 AM

Well i am visiting Zim in June. I will post pictures of Borrowdale, the neighborhood that i was raised in.
^^
Can you also take pics of other suburbs like Mount Pleasant and Marlborough?...and maybe the Borrowdale mall if its still there.

mike7743

May 3rd, 2009, 10:04 AM

thanks for the pictures.

Vakai

May 7th, 2009, 02:33 PM

^^
Can you also take pics of other suburbs like Mount Pleasant and Marlborough?...and maybe the Borrowdale mall if its still there.

I will certainly do that. :)

nairoberry

May 8th, 2009, 04:16 AM

^^
Can you also take pics of other suburbs like Mount Pleasant and Marlborough?...and maybe the Borrowdale mall if its still there.

kenguy how u get to know all these places in zimbabwe??? did u visit or live there?

BUTEMBO21

May 8th, 2009, 04:19 AM

kenguy how u get to know all these places in zimbabwe??? did u visit or live there?

History and Geography that's all it takes.

kitayabi

May 8th, 2009, 04:50 AM

One thing I dont get is how does Zimbabwe manage to have all those new buildings while the Mugabe regime is SIGNIFICANTLY bankrupting the country?

BTW: Those buildings are DEFINATELY not pre-independance.

much of the conomic boom happened during mugabes rule,its only when sanctions were placed on zimbabwe did the economy crumble.

kitayabi

May 8th, 2009, 04:51 AM

it just shows that hwen your econmoy collapses the buildings dont go anywere

BUTEMBO21

May 8th, 2009, 04:53 AM

much of the conomic boom happened during mugabes rule,its only when sanctions were placed on zimbabwe did the economy crumble.

Exactly....that's what i was trying to tell lots of people on here, but they chose to be ignorent.:ohno:

You are to blame

May 8th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Exactly....that's what i was trying to tell lots of people on here, but they chose to be ignorent.:ohno:

The sanctioned had nothing to due with the collapse. The collapse of agriculture lead to a financial collapse.

Here is how the taking of the white farms destroyed the economy. (How to destroy a country in 8 steps)

1) The land seizers caused thousands of people to lose there jobs (the land was owned and managed by white and they employed thousands of people and supported not just them but there extended family).

2) the farms were given to family and friends of the government who didn't do anything with the land so no income was generated for the loses

3) export income from farm products dried up which meant that the government lost hundred of millions in taxes

4) bank debts couldn't be paid, by either the farmers or there staff, banks therefore stop lendding or increase there rates.

5) manufacturing and other productive area's of the economy stop growing and start to shrink because they can't get credit and fewer people have work in order to afford there products.

6) The government printed money like crazy to pay there workers, because they weren't exporting anything to earn foreign payments, which caused the inflation crisis.

7) Infrastructure such as electricity starts to fall apart due to the inflation crisis and the government having no money to fix or repair anything.

8) Government enacts price control, which means the few industry's left stop importing products because they couldn't recoup there investment and so shutdown causing shortages of everything.

A total collapse of the economy is what happens when you destroy the countries most productive, highest income earner and highest employer, which were the white owned farms

Only now that the government is using the US dollar and the SA rand has inflation stopped. The rest of the economy is still a mess and will take decades to recover.

kitayabi

May 8th, 2009, 08:25 PM

youaretoblame, the UK and US decry the economic situation which zimbabweans live in but refuse to lift the cripling sanctions, will talk of how mugabe has allowed cholorea to ravage the country but wont send any mediacal aid to end the crisis.Sanctions are desighned for the soul purpose for crippling the economies of your foes,but trying to criple a country that is all ready on its knees is a bit low.
Mugabe went about it the wrong way,but Agricultural reform was needed in zimbabwe 90% of the land was owned by 1% of the population,the system was unfair.

Zimbo

May 9th, 2009, 10:49 PM

kitayabi your views are wrong and I have to disagree with you. UK and America have over the last 5 years given millions of pounds/dollars worth of aid to feed the very people mugabe is trying to opress in order to remain in power. 90% of the land was not owned by whites, true they did own vast tracts but they utilised it along with large workforces of which neither could do without each other. this is how Zimbabwe thrived. There are selective and I repeat selective sanctions. Trade is still allowed unlike during Smith regime where there were full sanctions against Rhodesia yet people were better off they had food on their tables and although people went without luxuries there was education and healthcare. I agree there had to be land reform but in a civilised way. I even agreed with mugabe when he said one man one farm but typical mugabe has lied. I lost my small farm which supported my parents and me trying to make an honest living that was our only income. Mugabes hench men have given themselves multiple farms have investemnts and houses as well in cities and have home areas so its pure greed. Plus 80% of the farms were bought after independence taxes paid etc so please try justify taking looting and destrying these farms with no compnesation or repatriation of these PRODUCTIVE farmers and ther workers. Im many countries including UK farmers make up less than 5% of the population. Not everyone wants to be farmers. So lets face reality Mugabe has destroyed Zimbabwe in order to stay in power to avoid the Hague for groos human rights abuses and genocide ( he killed 20 000 Ndebele people women and children included after independence!!!) SO much for being a freedom fighter he now kills the very people he claimes to have liberated.

Zimbo

May 9th, 2009, 11:01 PM

Oh yes kitayabi Zimbabwe has been independent for 30 years so there is no excuse to keep blaming the west. It is primative and ignorant. Hong Kong was a colony, Malaysia was a colony, Australia was a colony and Canada etc yet they have progressed. I am not saying the west are perfect as they are also corrupt and are self-interest eg war in iraq for oil. But it is Greedy corrupt African leaders who are ruining Africa by having wars and hoarding the stolen money in overseas banks instead of thinking of governing in the best interests of their own countries. Africa has so much potential and resources and if only they would govern properly like Botswana. It is easy to keep blaming others but one must look at both sides of the coin. Yes the colonisers in many cases were arrogant but they did help develop countries and if it wasnt one nation doig it then another one would have eg British, French, Portugese. Right now Africa is mortgaging alot of herself to the Chinese at the expense of African people while the the leaders of Africa enrich themselves....sad but true!!!

kitayabi

May 9th, 2009, 11:46 PM

zimbo Im not blameing the west for colonialism,thats a different discussion am saying that their is no logic or moral justification to sanction an economy already on its knees,in the hope of forcing regime change at the expense of the zimbabwean people.

BUTEMBO21

May 10th, 2009, 12:11 AM

The sanctioned had nothing to due with the collapse. The collapse of agriculture lead to a financial collapse.

Here is how the taking of the white farms destroyed the economy. (How to destroy a country in 8 steps)

1) The land seizers caused thousands of people to lose there jobs (the land was owned and managed by white and they employed thousands of people and supported not just them but there extended family).

2) the farms were given to family and friends of the government who didn't do anything with the land so no income was generated for the loses

3) export income from farm products dried up which meant that the government lost hundred of millions in taxes

4) bank debts couldn't be paid, by either the farmers or there staff, banks therefore stop lendding or increase there rates.

5) manufacturing and other productive area's of the economy stop growing and start to shrink because they can't get credit and fewer people have work in order to afford there products.

6) The government printed money like crazy to pay there workers, because they weren't exporting anything to earn foreign payments, which caused the inflation crisis.

7) Infrastructure such as electricity starts to fall apart due to the inflation crisis and the government having no money to fix or repair anything.

8) Government enacts price control, which means the few industry's left stop importing products because they couldn't recoup there investment and so shutdown causing shortages of everything.

A total collapse of the economy is what happens when you destroy the countries most productive, highest income earner and highest employer, which were the white owned farms

Only now that the government is using the US dollar and the SA rand has inflation stopped. The rest of the economy is still a mess and will take decades to recover.

The West forced Libya, (which was providing much of the Gas to Zimb.) tp stop selling gas to Zimb. if they themelves( Libya ) needs sanction lifted against them . The country started even had hard times since they had no gas. They did the same thing agaisnt Zambia in the 70s when they confiscated white farms there.

Whites owned 90% of the country when they are just 1% of the population.
Yes i know Znu poorly redistributed the land. But what really caused the economy to be that bad are Sanctions. Did you forget what Aparthied South Africa went throu when they had Sanctions against them in the 90s?

and Only DRC, Namibia, SA and Zambia have been good to Zimbabwe dispite the western pressure. the rest their hands are tied behind their back.

Zimbo

May 10th, 2009, 10:29 PM

Butembo, may I remind you Mugabe took over a country that had no debt, goo difastructure and was the jewel of Africa. As for South Africa that economy thrived under sanctions...not many do but S.A had the ability to be very inductrialized etc under apartied ( not saying I approve or condone segregation by no means at all) I just think that one must learn to critisize and be man enough to admit when they have got things wrong. Mugabe has ruined Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe started to really deterioate when mugabe decided to send troops into DRC to fight and protect their diamond concessions...nothing to do with saving and protecting Zimabbweans as we don't rely on DRC for anything except a bit of electricity. Then when the farms were invaded looted and destroyed the SELECTIVE sanctions were applied. The economy was already faltering before the farm invasions. If these selective sanctions lead you to believe the downfall of Zimbabwe then how can travel bans and freezing of assets abroad bring a whole nation down? If this is the case who does Zim actually belong to? It shows that the greed of Zanu-PF top dogs have corruptly taken everything for themselves and have no interest in serving the Zimbabwean people as they should be. African politics has the view that people should serve the Govt meanwhile it should be the Govt serving the people if they have genuinely been voted in by the people. But we know how mugabe and some other African leaders like to steal elections.

BUTEMBO21

May 11th, 2009, 12:00 AM

BUTEMBO21

May 11th, 2009, 12:21 AM

Zimbo,

Onther thing that many people here have failed to answer is , How did White Zimbs aquired the Land?

May be you can answer tha.? Hopefully.

buhera

May 11th, 2009, 12:45 AM

DRC paid more than than Zimbabwe spent . they were in charge of GECAMINES for everyday they were in Congo. It wasn't for free. So stop the lies.

May we should cut off the little bit of electricity that you guys get from us.

Not to mention that DRC did sent some Doctors to Zimabwe under our own expense.

You missed the point entirely, before the war in DRC it was of no importance in terms of economic and other ties to Zimbabwe. All these electricity deals and doctors were a result of the involvement of Zimbabwe's involvement in the conflict and would not have happened were it not for that conflict which no one wanted and cost more to Zimbabwe than it gained that electricity we could have generated ourselves and we probably trained enough doctors in Zimbabwe anyway. As for Gecamines those deals benefited Mugabe and his close friends and companies like CAMEC that are habitually found in such environments.Zimbabwe as a country gained very little from that war in the DRC and it would have benefited us more had we not intervened at all. The involvement in Mozambique in the 80s was more justified than the DRC if you ask any right thinking Zimbabwe

You are to blame

May 11th, 2009, 01:40 AM

The only sanctions that are on Zimbabwe is travel bands and frozen assets of members of ZANU-PF. They get all the humanitarian aid that is out there. For example most Zimbabweans survive on food aid from the west. If the west wanted ordinary Zimbabwean to suffer they could allow half of them to starve to death.

Zimbo

May 12th, 2009, 05:38 PM

Butembo, yo useem to have the wool covering your eyes!! Read what Buhera has written and others. We had the best education system in Africa so we didnt need Doctors from DRC. Zimbabwe was losing 1 millin US a daty for nearly two years I believe fighting mugabes interests only in mine dealings nothing more. At that time we could have done without the little electricity we were purchasing from DRC.

You also ask how whites got land in Zimbabwe. Here is a brief guide. There were injustices carried out by some early white settlers of British decent in Zimbabwe and they tricked King Lobengula for land in exchange for weapons so that the matabele could over power the Shona as they were in conflict all the time. There was very little being done on the land at that time in mid to late 1800 century agriculture wise. Then there was displacement and a number of black population were moved to tribal trust lands. Then came independence after a war in the 1970's for independece. Mugabe invited and asked the whites to stay and live in harmony and help build and progress the country. So a number of white people for the love of the country and surprised invite by Mugabe did stay. Since 1980 people bought and sold land taxes paid and agriculture was the backbone of Zimbabwe and we prospered.UK was obliged to help Mugabe compensate the farmers to buy land and resettle people. I am not sure the amount in millions of pounds the UK gave but there was corruption of this money and UK also stopped funding in the 1990's with change of Govt as labour got in. The law in Zimbabwe is you offer the land to Govt first who let you know if there is no interest then you can seel it privately. That is how a number of whites also legally aquired land. About 80% of the farms invaded and looted and destroyed were bought since independence with letters from the Govt of no interest. Zimbabweans are entitled to own land...just because if they ar white does not meant they should not be able to own land as this is racism and if Afica wants to prove they are not racist as many whites are protrayed to be then why question the very persons colour for owning land in a land where they were born?? Mugabe's anti white is a gimmick anyway as two foreigners still own lots of land in Zimbabwe who are not even Zimbabweans Bredenkamp and Van Hogstraaten because they give lots of money to Zanu-Pf. I hope this brief explanation puts you in a better idea of land ownership.By the way the farmers are still to be compensated for the improvements and loss of earnings and looting of their property on the land they developed so if your argument is about ownership of land read my next message.

Zimbo

May 12th, 2009, 05:50 PM

Zimbo

May 12th, 2009, 05:55 PM

TheMann2000

May 12th, 2009, 06:12 PM

OK, as a Canadian whose (white) father was born in Harare, I think I can reasonably comment on this.

It is true that Zimbabwe at independence had suffered 80,000 dead during the Bush War, which Ian Smith (who is paying for his crimes in hell right now) caused simply because the whites who were racist couldn't tolerate the idea of having to share the nation with the black Africans who were there long before we were. My father was never a racist, still isn't, and my grandfather isn't either. The whites were given command of the land unfairly, but after independence Mugabe essentially let white Zimbabweans go about their business as long as they didn't cause political trouble. The racist whites all left within a few years of independence, but the good ones, including my grandfather and uncle, stayed. They sang Mugabe's praises for ages, saying the "benign old man" was both intelligent and reasonable, at least for an African leader.

The problem was that post-independence Zimbabwe economically stagnated quickly. Gukurahindi caused most of this, but the simple fact was that ZANU-PF wasn't going to tolerate opposition, and when Mugabe's militias found weapons on ZAPU-owned farms (planted, as we found out many years later, by agents of the apartheid state), it was all the excuse Mugabe needed. That's what brought Nkomo's ability to challenge Mugabe to an end.

Fast forward to the late 1990s. The stagnation economically is now obvious. Mugabe is getting senile and ZANU-PF has long run out of ideas and is becoming very incompetent. This saw the MDC rise. The 2000 elections, despite Mugabe's rigging still saw the parliament split 63-57 between ZANU-PF and the MDC. (And five of those MDC MPs, it should be pointed out, were white. One of them was Ian Smith's Justice Minister during the Rhodesian days.) Mugabe was losing his grip, so he asked in a referendum to Zimbabweans to give him far more powers and absolve him and many of his cronies for their crimes during the Bush War and Gukurahindi. The referendum failed, the first time Mugabe had EVER failed at the polls.

He figured that the opposition was being funded by the whites (so was ZANU-PF, which he either didn't notice or didn't care about), so he sent his militias to take over the white farms. The farms went form productive agribusinesses to fallow land within weeks, and all hell broke loose.

Mugabe destroyed his nation in his quest to retain his power. It really is that simple. The sanctions against Zimbabwe are primarily aimed at Mugabe and his inner circle, and yes in the West Mugabe is well up the list of people we don't like. I personally believe that Mugabe himself is physically sick, and I don't mean that as an insult, BTW - he has all the characteristics of suffering from the neurological form of syphilis.

If Mugabe had given up the throne in 2000, Zimbabwe would still be prosperous, and all of the pain, death and suffering of the last ten years would not have happened. The whites would still be there, because the 50,000 or so Mugabe drove out, frankly, were Zimbabweans who very much cared for their country. Those farms would still be feeding and employing Zimbabweans.

The country went from whites owning 90% of the land in 1980 to 67% in 2000. Some progress had been made in terms of land reform, and more would have been made had the money Britain loaned to Zimbabwe for that purpose had been used, instead of being stolen by the government. Yes, 67% of the land owned by 1% of the population is extreme, but they had farmed it for generations in most cases (including that of my grandfather and uncle), and had built their homes on it. My family never had issues sharing, they made sure none of their workers lived in shacks, and my uncle went so far as to import a minibus from SA just to make sure his people could get to work cheaply and easily. He often paid the school fees if his workers couldn't afford them, too.

Mugabe would have had cause in trying to correct imbalances by force in 1980, but by 2000 it was clear that the whites left were not there to persecute. That's the real tragedy of this. Most of the whites driven out in 2000-01 went to South Africa, Zambia, Botswana and Tanzania. My family did - the uncle runs a garage in Nelspruit now and the grandfather is living in an old-age home in Paarl, near Cape Town. The farm's neighbors, whose eldest daughter my nephew married, were given a long-lease on land in Zambia, where they now employ 250 people growing tobacco.

Zimbabwe has become a tragedy, and I can guarantee most of those whites will not return home. As a result, Zimbabwe will be worse off when Mugabe finally dies or ZANU-PF finally gives up their charade.

Zimbo

May 12th, 2009, 08:52 PM

The Mann thankyou for your interesting and true comment you just posted. It puts everything into perspective and I hope it educates a few on here about really whats happened etc.

I cant wait to be going to Zimbabwe for a couple of weeks end of Sept and believe me my camera is going to work over time. I have to master the art of uploading pics onto here. Enough said...about time we had someore pics of Zimbabwe on here everyone. Would be nice to see somemore of other cities such as Bulawayo, Mutare etc. Anyone have any?

BUTEMBO21

May 13th, 2009, 12:38 AM

Butembo, the Khalahari Bushman are the real actual land owners of Zimbabwe. The Ndebele people fled to ZImbabwe to get away from Shaka Zulu as he was at war with anyone not wanting to join his kingdom and its expansion. The Shona people arrived even before the Ndebele people from middle/east Africa. The white settlers were the last to arrive in basic terms. The bushman was pushed out over time and few remain. SO the big question who actually owns the land????? The world over people have moved invaded and settled and many injustices carried out by mankind of all dinominations. So please Butembo think outside the box and its not just in black and white (excuse the punn). There is enough land in Zimbabwe for all Zimbabweans and not everyone wants to be a farmer. Its all about politics in Zimbabwe and the greed for power and to remain in power so not to be sent to the Hague for crimes against humanity because Mugabe slaughtered 20 000 ndebele civilians in the early 1980's which is a well known fact and plenty of evidence. The greatest crime to me is for mugabe to posture as a freedom fighter then kill and opress the very people he claims to have liberated!!!! That to me is beyond comprehension and barbaric.

First whites don't even have 500 years of history in Zimbabwe. Secondly Blacks have more than a 1000 years of history on that land. You are right that the Bushman were the first people there. But The thing is that Bushmen and Blacks lived side by side without any problems. Bantu were farmers and Busmen were Hunters. Whites cam to that Land with absolut brutality and barbarianism by enslaving Black and anyone who isn't White. By claiming everything to be theirs. That is absolut crap.

Sub-Sahara belongs to balcks and blacks only. If whites came peacefully, without barbarianism there wouldn't be all this things happening. They would be living in side by side with balcks and no one will have to go throu all this nightmares. But they chose the hard , and the hard way it is.

I see you're asking who is the land really belongs to? well the answer isn't far. It belongs to the Black people. Like Europe belongs to the Whites is that hard to understand?

dvno_dvno_dvno

May 13th, 2009, 10:36 AM

First whites don't even have 500 years of history in Zimbabwe. Secondly Blacks have more than a 1000 years of history on that land. You are right that the Bushman were the first people there. But The thing is that Bushmen and Blacks lived side by side without any problems. Bantu were farmers and Busmen were Hunters. Whites cam to that Land with absolut brutality and barbarianism by enslaving Black and anyone who isn't White. By claiming everything to be theirs. That is absolut crap.

Sub-Sahara belongs to balcks and blacks only. If whites came peacefully, without barbarianism there wouldn't be all this things happening. They would be living in side by side with balcks and no one will have to go throu all this nightmares. But they chose the hard , and the hard way it is.

I see you're asking who is the land really belongs to? well the answer isn't far. It belongs to the Black people. Like Europe belongs to the Whites is that hard to understand?

Incredible! You could easily be Mugabe's successor with that speech. :lol:

dvno_dvno_dvno

May 13th, 2009, 10:41 AM

BUTEMBO21

May 13th, 2009, 08:51 PM

Thanks for putting things clear from someone who ACTUALLY lived in Zimbabwe like your father. There are many people over here that blindly support Mugabe's atrocities from their confortable home in San Diego (or somewhere else very far from Zimbabwe).

Make sense please.

BUTEMBO21

May 13th, 2009, 08:54 PM

Incredible! You could easily be Mugabe's successor with that speech. :lol:

I wouldn't mind being his successor.:cheers:

BUTEMBO21

May 13th, 2009, 09:08 PM

Zimbo

May 14th, 2009, 07:28 AM

BUTEMBO21

May 14th, 2009, 08:18 AM

You keep going on about whites enslaving blacks and whites have no right to own land in Africa etc. Firstly it is a fact that whites did enslave black people as did Arabs enslave blacks and some black people helped arrange to get other tribes enslaved etc. I hate that this very thing happened. You say bantu were living peacfully etc. Rubbish I know something about Zimbabqwes and Southenr Africas hisory.the Shaka Zulu was fighting and killing other tribes whoo didnt want to join his camp hence Matabele had to escape and move north to Zimbabwe. Tribes were forever invading each other and enslaving and capturing etc. All races are guilty of causing human tragedy. Black people can own land and houses in faraway lands and where they were born. SO a white person who is born in Africa can equally own land ..is this a crime?? If a wehite person bought land after independence is not entitiled to own that? Butembo you seem a one track mind and actually sound a bit like Mugabe. be man enough and admit that mugabe has got it wrong and is racist and a tribalist. You fail to condemn him for killing so many people as well. By the way Mugabe has cause edcucated people to go get menuial jobs abroad and in a way work like slaves because of his greed!!!

I didn't deny that he made mistakes. I clearlly said he did mistakes. But i was praising the fatc that he was fighting the evil Rhodesian regime of Ian Smith, (unless you like Ian Smith and Rhodesia.). And getting the Lnad back to the Bantu. I didn't say that Whites don't have have the right ot own land. I clearly said that if they baught the Lnad then they have the right to own it. AGAIN, YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION '' DID WHITE BUY THAT LAND ?'' AND IF SO , FORM WHOM DID THEY BUY IT?'' Please answer these questions.? will you?

So a white person who is born in africa can equally own land...is this a crime?
A white person can own the land if he bought it. did i answer your question?

About Shaka Zulu killing other people is bull shit....it's a whites messed up history to try to make him look like he was just a monster......It's a fact that Shaka was conqering all the other tribe , but he ws doing so to make the Zulus a superempire and one single super tribe . where there will no wars. since every tribe had enemies and they had endless wars. SHAKA's vision was to have to put an end to all the wars by uniting all tribes. That's the History. I know about the Bantu History as well. as i'm a Bantu myself.

As i said it before and will say it again, whites have the right to own land if they legally bought it.

Again, from whom did the whites Zimbabweans or even the whites South africans .
and are you going to deny that the whites kicked all Blacks from their land and aquired all their land and arable land?

Please answer these question. No one have been able to answer them so far.

kitayabi

May 14th, 2009, 08:37 AM

BUTEMBO21

May 14th, 2009, 08:47 AM

most of the white owned farms were not bought but handed out during colonial times,for example in kenya you have an aristocrat who owns 100,000 acres of prime farm land in the rift valley,and while thousands of workers labour his spends his free time hunting down any one that crosses in to his fields.
mugabe went about it the wrong way but land reform was and is necesary in sub saharan africa.

Handed out? Handed by whom? may be in Kenya, but not in fully Bantu countries. Bnatu people are farmers? why would you want to give up what's gives you life?

Yes Mugabe did mistakes on how to handle the ridistribution and yes it was and Land reform is still necessary to have Land reform. But Whites still resist the reform. exemple of land reform resistance is in Zimbabwe itself and more in Namibia and South Africa.

Lnad reform must happen as soon as possible. better sooner than later.

mwanamwiwa

May 14th, 2009, 02:21 PM

ewangai

May 14th, 2009, 02:49 PM

Mau mau came along later. the lad was preety much "claimed for the crown", the natives were evicted and as kitayabi said, handed out to the important people in british society at the time (This is for kenya by the way )

Wen mau mau came, the were basically putting pressure on the british to give it back. when the redistribution happened, (after independence), it did not take into account who owned what before the "white man" came. thats the source of all the problmes now. basically you had a well to do family with 5 houses, someone takes it away, then as a comunity you win it back and you only get one house back and everyone else gets the same.

Fair for a community but unfair for individuals.

mwanamwiwa

May 14th, 2009, 03:07 PM

I know that quite well.I was replying to Butembo for saying Kenyans might have handed out the land cause they are not fully bantu.....even the non farming communities needed their land for survival.

BUTEMBO21

May 14th, 2009, 03:16 PM

^^Nobody handed out their land,hundreds of thousands of young men lost their lives trying to defend it and entered the jungle in the 50s to reclaim it(mau mau),:ohno:@ Kitayabi,you mean the Delamere family,I dont think he will be using his rifle in a looong time,the the guy he shot was a KWS officer undercover in his farm.Name any other related case or aristocrat for that matter.....

Exactly, i didn't think that Kenya people handed their farms to the whites.....i don't know where they get this kinds of info from.:ohno:.

How would a Kenyan hand over their source of life?

It's all whit lies over and over that they preach everyday tomake it like they have the right to have the land, when they never bought it in the first palce. Kenyans , i mean black Kenyan must own every single inch of Kenyan land. and that white who killed tha Black Kneya must be put ot death or go to prison for life.....I have never seen a black African own land in Europe ( beisde the little houses some of them have).

Kenguy

May 14th, 2009, 07:23 PM

^^
So you are suggesting that Kenyan whites should be evicted from their farms?:ohno::ohno::ohno:

BUTEMBO21

May 14th, 2009, 10:00 PM

^^
So you are suggesting that Kenyan whites should be evicted from their farms?:ohno::ohno::ohno:

Only Blacks should own land in Kenya. Yes they should. Because i don't know of any black africans that own Land in Europe. If even if the bullshit african leaders that keep their money in Eurorpean Bnaks will never be able to own that much Land. As some that white Kenyan " Aristocrat" owning 100,000 acre of Land by himself and then start killing bLabk Kenyans. Bull crap. I'm trying to follow his trial. I hope he goes to jail for good and have all the farm confiscated. If they want to buy Houses then that's ok , but not owning 1000s of acres. That bullshit. Do you know how many people in Kibera that if trained and equiped to farm on samll farms , the kind of life they will have? That's why i love Tanzania for not selling their farms to foreigners even to thepeople from Uganda and Rwanda, untill all Tanzianians have Land.

I think that's fare. Isnt it? i don't mean racism, but fareness.

EduardSA

May 17th, 2009, 12:34 PM

Only Blacks should own land in Kenya. Yes they should. Because i don't know of any black africans that own Land in Europe.

What? There are plenty of blacks that own land in Europe.

If you're referring to agricultural land, my friend's dad, who is black, just bought a piece of agricultural land in southern France. I also met in my travels abroad a black guy whose family owns a sort of holiday house/farm near the alps in northern italy.

We're living in a free society. If you have the means, nothing can stop you.

The only difference between the historic ownership of land is that blacks in Europe purchased that land, while Europeans in Africa occupied it. However, there should be nothing to stop a European from BUYING land in Africa, and vice versa for blacks in Europe. The worst we can do now as Africans is to go on a useless revenge trip that will actually only hurt us instead of them. Proof: Zimbabwe.

Now lets please get back to the photos and take this to the Oasis...

BUTEMBO21

May 17th, 2009, 05:08 PM

What? There are plenty of blacks that own land in Europe.

If you're referring to agricultural land, my friend's dad, who is black, just bought a piece of agricultural land in southern France. I also met in my travels abroad a black guy whose family owns a sort of holiday house/farm near the alps in northern italy.

We're living in a free society. If you have the means, nothing can stop you.

The only difference between the historic ownership of land is that blacks in Europe purchased that land, while Europeans in Africa occupied it. However, there should be nothing to stop a European from BUYING land in Africa, and vice versa for blacks in Europe. The worst we can do now as Africans is to go on a useless revenge trip that will actually only hurt us instead of them. Proof: Zimbabwe.

Now lets please get back to the photos and take this to the Oasis...

Ok Brother, thanks for the tip about a couple black that own land in europe.
Europeans never bought the land in africa they just killed and displace the original owners and take the land away. we all know that. As i said before and will say it again. Europeans who buy the land can own it. but those who never bought the land, it should be confiscated. I hope i made mysel clear.

And You're right. Lets take this to the Oasis. There is already a Lnad issue thread and your contribution is welcome.

EduardSA

May 17th, 2009, 11:28 PM

BUTEMBO21

May 18th, 2009, 03:55 AM

Only a couple? I only know a couple that own agricultural land. But there must be thousands! There must hundreds of thousands of Africans that own land in general! There are millions of Africans in Europe, some of them rent, some of them buy property. I think most go for the latter.

I agree about how Europeans orginally took land and I agree that Europeans who buy should be left alone. But lets not confiscate. That's what happened in Zim and the 'bread basket of africa' can't even feed its own people. It must be a peaceful and legal transfer of land, even if it takes a long time. The agricultural economy should be priortised before which race owns what. In South Africa such a transfer is taking place. It's taking a long time, especially since the new owners need agricultural education, but it's happening! And our agricutural economy is stable and we're able to feed our people.

White Zimb. Refused to transfer the land back because of pressure from UK.
They had the opportunities to "Willing buyers and willing seller", yet they refused to go ahead with the program. Don't get me wrong , the Zimb. Gov made lots of mistakes in reforming.

and that's not true, about millions of africans that own lands in Europe. I know thousands own properties( only houses and mostly Apartments). But never agrocultural Land. I don't even think there are 50 africans that own land. If so i woud love to be proven wrong.
In Congo, where i'm from , some white Belgians still own Properties they enherited from the colonial times, something they never bought. But we don't have problems with the having them. But they can only have agrocultural Lands if they bought them.
Like i said before, there are nothing wrong with whites owning lands in africa if only they bought them.

TheMann2000

May 18th, 2009, 08:53 AM

Butembo, there is no question that the past had many crimes committed by everyone - black, white, Arab, everyone. But trying to justify stupidity today based on past injustices is not terribly smart. The thing about developing a nation is that even a nation with immense resources like South Africa takes time to get everything built and refined to the point where it can be used to build wealth. The same is true in Zimbabwe.

The fact is that very few Zimbabweans have the knowledge to be commercial farmers like my family members once were. Some do have that knowledge, and some were actually attacked by Mugabe's thugs in 2000. I'll tell you what, Smith and Mugabe will both rot in hell, that much is sure. It's just a matter of when Mugabe joins Smith there.

And also, the UK did not tell white Zimbabweans not to transfer land back. As part of the deal that brought independence in 1980, the UK put up a bunch of money to redistribute the land, buying it from white owners and giving it to black Zimbabweans. The problem is that much of this money got stolen, and as a result not all of it went to fixing the problems. Britain changed governments in 1997, and that government said categorically that the problems of Zimbabwe were no longer their problems. But even with that, between 1980 and 1997 had the programs been implemented properly there would have not been such problems with inequality. Mugabe and his ZANU-PF cronies, and the white Zimbabweans who own big portions of land in Zimbabwe (It has not escaped my notice that Zim has NEVER condemned these particular white people - because Mugabe would be screwed without them and he knows it), are the ones responsible for Zimbabwe's current state. The UK has nothing to do with it.

As EduardSA pointed out, revenge violence tends to be destructive. When you are trying to make a nation prosper, what the hell does chaotic land takeovers do to help that?

EduardSA

May 19th, 2009, 03:37 PM

I was referring to land in general, not agricultural land. I would also like to know how many blacks own agricultural land in Europe. The people I know own it for leisure purposes (alhough there is agricultural activity), rather than professional commerical purposes.

But I see no point in buying land in Europe for farming reasons. The market over there is highly saturated and highly competitive.

I would rather buy a larger and more productive land in Africa. That is why South Africans farmers who want to emigrate are going to other parts of Africa, such as Zambia, to farm.

I'n not sure how evxpropriations work in South Africa. There is a willing buyer willing seller system, but there are many problems here. First some farmers are resisting (although a court order can be obtained, so that's not really a problem), second there aren't lots of blacks willing to farm their land (a major problem due to uneducation or disinterest) and many pieces of land returned to blacks are then sold back to white farmers, and third blacks historically occupied a small portion of land.

The third one is creating tension. Before, it was agreed that only land which was forcefully taken away from blacks would be returned to blacks under expropriation. However historically the black population was relatively small in concentrated areas (such as transkei or kwazulu) with the population boom only happening in the 70's and 80's. Therefore the majority of white farmers have there farms on land that was never historically occupied, which assures that represenation is mainly white.

The government was considering transformation to take place even of land that was never historically occipied. This is causing tension and I don' think it will take place anytime soon since the government prioritizes the agricultural economy and hey don't want to threaten that. I think they will implement a willing seller willing buyer system in these cases as well, but they want be able to force farmers who refuse which is case on historical black land.

BUTEMBO21

May 19th, 2009, 05:35 PM

I was referring to land in general, not agricultural land. I would also like to know how many blacks own agricultural land in Europe. The people I know own it for leisure purposes (alhough there is agricultural activity), rather than professional commerical purposes.

But I see no point in buying land in Europe for farming reasons. The market over there is highly saturated and highly competitive.

I would rather buy a larger and more productive land in Africa. That is why South Africans farmers who want to emigrate are going to other parts of Africa, such as Zambia, to farm.

I'n not sure how evxpropriations work in South Africa. There is a willing buyer willing seller system, but there are many problems here. First some farmers are resisting (although a court order can be obtained, so that's not really a problem), second there aren't lots of blacks willing to farm their land (a major problem due to uneducation or disinterest) and many pieces of land returned to blacks are then sold back to white farmers, and third blacks historically occupied a small portion of land.
The third one is creating tension. Before, it was agreed that only land which was forcefully taken away from blacks would be returned to blacks under expropriation. However historically the black population was relatively small in concentrated areas (such as transkei or kwazulu) with the population boom only happening in the 70's and 80's. Therefore the majority of white farmers have there farms on land that was never historically occupied, which assures that represenation is mainly white.

The government was considering transformation to take place even of land that was never historically occipied. This is causing tension and I don' think it will take place anytime soon since the government prioritizes the agricultural economy and hey don't want to threaten that. I think they will implement a willing seller willing buyer system in these cases as well, but they want be able to force farmers who refuse which is case on historical black land.

Black occupied a small portion of land because , whites chased blacks from most of the land and send them in american style , concentration camps called " reservation". your're talking as if whites and Blacks have live in that country for the same amount of years.

Can you say how whites endup with all these Lands? I know whites have their own stories on this issue.

So what do you think should happen to the whites that are resisting willing buyer, willing seller?

Zimbo

May 19th, 2009, 11:33 PM

Butembo, I have explained in previous postings how in Zimbabwe the whites came to settle. Ceciol John Rhodes offered King Lobengula weapons in exchange for settling rights. The Matabele people wanted the weapons as they were often in conflict with the Shona. The deal was biased in favour of the whites. However, the original land owners in Zimbabwe were the Khalahari Bushman were there before the Matabele (who came from South Africa) and the Shone (Bantu) who came from middl/eastern Africa with the whites arriving after these two groups at a later date. Bearing in mind that population levels were very low in those times 18th century compared to now. So my arguement is how to justify the taking of farms/houses from Zimbabweans who many have bought since independence in 1980 taxes paid etc. There has not been any compnesation if not for the land for the looted and destroyed infastructure and crops that mugabe has inflicted!!!! I must also stress Butembo that as a younger generation Zimbabwean, whites and black people co-exist peacefully in our country unlike the racist mugabe/ Zanu-PF and some arrogant whites particularly the generation brought up in segregation times. Many of us are not part of that era. After all many black Zimbabweans are actully of Malawi decent and even Mugabes Father I believe was from Malawi which makes some white Zimbabweans who have both parents born in Zim are more Zimbabwean than mugabe himself!!!! So its not just a black and white issue and in this day and age which race should own land where etc. It is a global world now from occupations of USA, Australia, Canada, South America by Spanish, Isrealies and Palistinians etc. All races have commited crimes and to keep digging past up brings no future. We have to remeber the past but look forward which is what mugabe cannot get into his thick skull and has ruined Zimbabwe...no-one else. Britian who were obliged to help fund land reform were doing so but this money was stolen by mugabe and there was also a change in Govt in UK. I think the UK is still obliged to help fund a proper and equal land reform for ALL Zimbabweans, just not into mugabes itchy hands as he is so corrupt. Butembo I cant comment on your country as I have not been there etc but I can pass judgment on my Country of birth and this is how it is.

MBA-Congo

May 20th, 2009, 12:51 AM

I didn't know King Lobengula was fluent in english while signing away his nation, but fraudulent pratices are a win win for few. And so what if Mugabe parents are from Malawi? I'm sure Malawi in the distant past of an 80 something man wasn't viewed in the same light as today, it was still Bantu country wasn't it? Zambian president Fredrick Chiluba parents was from Katanga and president Levy Mwanawasa is like half Malawian what's the fuss? most of the tribes are interconnected.

buhera

May 20th, 2009, 04:02 PM

The problem with the Malawi connection was it seemed to be hidden and Mugabe once famously called people of Malwian descent 'people without totems' and also went to great lengths trying to strip them along with whites of British descent a right to vote because he believed they turned against him.So the irony is not lost on anyone, and i believe that for a country that used to be part of a Federation i.e like the UK with Zambia and Malawi its not surprising that there are millions of Zimbos with Malawian descent,the president of Zambia was born in Zim and grew up there for a part of his life, he recently visited his birth place in Gwanda when he was at the ZITF

Zimbo

May 22nd, 2009, 07:27 AM

The relevence is that it is true Zimbabwe should belong to Zimbabweans there fore regardless of race or creed we should all be entitled to own land if we purchase it in this day and age!! mugabe has denied hundreds of thousands their birth right so I just wanted to make a point to the racist and tribalist mugabe that those he castgates some (whites and other ethnic groups are more Zimbabwean than he is!!!) No-one said he could read english but perhpas inaccurate sign language etc and bad communication took place ( SOrry wasnt there...long before my time) it was an unfiar deal but arms were new to that part of the world (like a kind of magic) and King Lobengula was tricked into the deal of arms for settlement. by the way the signature was an " X " i believe . The point of mentioning this was because Butembo kept asking how some whites came to be in settling in Zimbabwe.

Zimbo

June 6th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Does anyone know of any current or future development plans in and around Zimbabwe? I know the British Embassy completed their new embassy building 3/4 months ago. :nuts:

kitayabi

June 6th, 2009, 02:10 PM

lolita31

June 6th, 2009, 03:35 PM

What? There are plenty of blacks that own land in Europe.

If you're referring to agricultural land, my friend's dad, who is black, just bought a piece of agricultural land in southern France. I also met in my travels abroad a black guy whose family owns a sort of holiday house/farm near the alps in northern italy.

We're living in a free society. If you have the means, nothing can stop you.

The only difference between the historic ownership of land is that blacks in Europe purchased that land, while Europeans in Africa occupied it. However, there should be nothing to stop a European from BUYING land in Africa, and vice versa for blacks in Europe. The worst we can do now as Africans is to go on a useless revenge trip that will actually only hurt us instead of them. Proof: Zimbabwe.

Now lets please get back to the photos and take this to the Oasis...

wHY don't you compare the amount of blacks that bought land in Europe vs. the amount of whites that took land in Africa?

Kenguy

June 6th, 2009, 04:20 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3561/3577445335_58121fb32a_b.jpgmngani-flickr.

Kenguy

June 6th, 2009, 04:24 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3507574442_db7497c04a_o.jpg
Yirakiman-flickr.

Gulivar

June 6th, 2009, 11:02 PM

It's sad what happened to this country.

sseki2010

June 24th, 2009, 07:50 PM

very nyce city if Mugabe leaves

Zimbo

June 25th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Kisumu Ndogo

July 7th, 2009, 06:34 PM

Yes I cant wait till mugabe leaves so that confidence can return to Zimbabwe and once again tall buildings can start to rise not only in Harare but Bulawayo, Mutare and Gweru too!!!! Hurry up Zimbabwe lets have the positive change we need!

I doubt though if Mugabe's legacy will be rubbed off quickly incase he leaves the scene. It will probably take generations for this to happen otherwise when Mugabe leaves the scene the first few years of the new leadership will prove the hidden determination and potential of Zimbabweans to succed.

Kisumu Ndogo

July 8th, 2009, 11:42 PM

http://www.met.gov.zw/Images/harare001.png

Dont know if this is Rpt
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Harare_secondst.jpg/800px-Harare_secondst.jpg

BUTEMBO21

July 8th, 2009, 11:55 PM

wHY don't you compare the amount of blacks that bought land in Europe vs. the amount of whites that took land in Africa?

Exactely. I don't even think there are 20 black people that own land in Europe. and if they do . they paid for it. My problem with whites in Zimbabwe and all other african countries is that they never paid a single penny for it.

If they paid for it then they have 100% the right to own the land they paid the money they sweat for.

Otherwise i'm like the fact that Mugabe took the farm form them. ( thogh i will slap him for not redistributing them the right way).

Matthias Offodile

July 10th, 2009, 11:04 AM

Butembo21, in your blind obession against whites at times, you might forget that many white farmers bought the land, please check historic facts! Even in the 1980´s 8after independence) whites bought land in Zimbabwe, my professor told that to me.

and I can assure you that there are definitely more than 20 Blacks owning land in Europe. Believe it or not but numeorus Nigerians own a lot of real estate in the UK (even my auntie has three houses in London...and she is not what you would call a rich Nigerian)...some wealthy Naija people even castles...and they are not (former) presidents.

mkenya

July 10th, 2009, 01:25 PM

Yes I cant wait till mugabe leaves so that confidence can return to Zimbabwe and once again tall buildings can start to rise not only in Harare but Bulawayo, Mutare and Gweru too!!!! Hurry up Zimbabwe lets have the positive change we need!

Even if Mugabe leaves..it will be the same story....It is a push by the masses.What is happening is Zimbabwe and South Africa is a self correcting occurence...You should be thankful that a government,as bad as it is, is undertaking the exercise for if the Masses are let loose they will be Genocide for the whites are viewed as occupiers.They are paying for the sins of their forefathers.

The coming of Europeans to Africa was for a evil motive.That is Obvious if u know what imperialism means and entails. They Killed, raped ,looted and took land because they had gunpowder. This has largely been corrected in Most of Africa apart from Zimbabwe and South Africa where corrections are still taking place and will continue.

In physics you were taught that if Body "A" pushes against body "B" body "B" also exerts and equivalent push on body "A" . The same natural laws are playing out in Zimbabwe. There will be equilibria when the looters have given up their loot and have been punished.

Unfortunately, the people to bare the brunt are the decedents of the Original imperial land grabbers.

BUTEMBO21

July 10th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Matthias Offodile

July 10th, 2009, 10:17 PM

I am talking of the 80´s...several whites bought land in Zimbabwe which was offered to them by the government...in his frenzy Mugabe didn´t differ any more!

BUTEMBO21

July 11th, 2009, 02:12 AM

I am talking of the 80´s...several whites bought land in Zimbabwe which was offered to them by the government...in his frenzy Mugabe didn´t differ any more!

What Governement did that? Mugabe's governement first thing was to redistrubute the Land? in the 80s Whites owned 100% of all Land.
So from which Govrnement or Regime did they bought the Lnad from?

How do you sell Zero, O? How do you sell what you don't have?

where is your logic Matt?

mike7743

July 11th, 2009, 06:30 PM

It's sad what happened to this country.

indeed, it breaks my heart seeing one of Africa's most prosperous nation turning into another failed state. so much potential, so many great things that can be accomplished.

:bash: :ohno:

Matthias Offodile

July 12th, 2009, 11:28 AM

What Governement did that? Mugabe's governement first thing was to redistrubute the Land? in the 80s Whites owned 100% of all Land.
So from which Govrnement or Regime did they bought the Lnad from?

How do you sell Zero, O? How do you sell what you don't have?

where is your logic Matt?

My professor at uni told me that, he travelled several times to Zim.

Whites owned the land because SEVERAL people BOUGHT the land in the 1980´s ( difference to the descendants of the British who snatched the land) and they got robbed by the government which once again shows that your investment in Africa is not safe.:ohno:

And what did Mugabe do with it? Do the Blacks own the land now as he promised to do?

The last time I checked it was divided up by Mugabe and his cronies, farms literally rot away:bash:

Mugabe´s wife is renowned for making mega shopping sprees in SA and elsewhere while the people literally starve at home. She buys Western products from countries that her husband pretends to defend at all costs.
For me, Mugabe is one of the worst crooks that African post-colonial history has ever seen.
Land had to be redistributed in Zim, there is no doubt about it.... but you don´t chop off the hand that feeds you in the way Mugabe handled the case.

Janam2000

July 13th, 2009, 04:37 PM

The Zimbaweans want land but they cannot till the land and they are going hungry.

Janam2000

July 13th, 2009, 04:38 PM

Mugabe should go|!!!

BUTEMBO21

July 13th, 2009, 04:47 PM

The Zimbaweans want land but they cannot till the land and they are going hungry.

It's Zimabwean Land not British land.

Matthias Offodile

July 13th, 2009, 08:12 PM

the zimbabwean farmers didn´t work for Britain. They worked for Zimbabwe, now Zimabawe will end up like one of thsoe countless African failed states , giving land for free to Asian conglomerates...what a pity!

Zimbo

July 15th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Butembo, do you even know what you are talking about???? Since independence there are white Zimbabweans who have bought land paid taxes according to the laws etc to the Zimbabwean Govt. How does one justify taking those farms bought since independence on a willing seller willing buyer basis which is what was done. After independence if you want to sell a farm you offered it to Govt ..if they refused it/had no interest yo ucould then sell it on open market. So it is pure theft and destuction what mugabe has done to land that has been bouth since 1980. Before hand however due to colonial injustices I agree that Britian is obliged to compensate for the land however the destruction looting and theft of crops of the farmers need to be compensated by mugabe. We all agree that land reform is important. Believe it or not I even agree with mugabe when he said one man one farm but he is not true to his word and some of his ministers have got even upto 6 farms. So much for trying to alleviate pverty ..he has created a huge mess and the masses are no better off now 30 years after independence infact they are worse off than under the opressive Smith regime!!!! Butembo...thsi is not a black and white issue is about an evil greedy murderous dictator who claims to have fought for freedom yet kills and opresses the very people who once admired him. mugabe is a disgrace to not only Africa but the human race by his evil deeds.

yosef

July 16th, 2009, 04:48 AM

Dont know if any of these have been posted yet

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8543/p1100802.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/674/p1100814.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7958/p1100820.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/158/p1100915o.jpg

yosef

July 16th, 2009, 04:54 AM

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4339/p1100967.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1900/p1100807.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4567/p1100842.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5761/p1100810.jpg

mkenya

July 16th, 2009, 05:14 AM

The Zimbaweans want land but they cannot till the land and they are going hungry.

What do u mean by they cannot till the land?? Are they the only Africans who cant till the land?? All countries in Africa produce food. And it is the Natives who till the land. We should stop this bullshit propaganda that zimbabweans will go hungry if the whites leave!!

BUTEMBO21

July 16th, 2009, 05:51 AM

What do u mean by they cannot till the land?? Are they the only Africans who cant till the land?? All countries in Africa produce food. And it is the Natives who till the land. We should stop this bullshit propaganda that zimbabweans will go hungry if the whites leave!!

Zambia did get it land back a longtime ago in the 70s.

mwanamwiwa

July 16th, 2009, 05:56 AM

http://www.smallbagbigworld.com/images/zimbabwe/harare_police.jpg
http://tabisite.com/gallery_af/zimbabwe/0202harare.JPG
http://www.a-cees.com/Harare16.jpg

BUTEMBO21

July 16th, 2009, 07:49 AM

you are a great contributor mwana. you're finding your way back.:) good job:cheers:

BUTEMBO21

July 16th, 2009, 07:58 AM

Zimbo

July 17th, 2009, 02:15 PM

Butembo, firstly Zimbabwe gained independence in 1980. At the celebrations Mugabe himself and I quote (listen to his speech), invited the white people to stay and help rebuild the nation and move forward. Many left that did not want to be ruled under Mugabe. Those of us who stayed for the love of country and people; did stay and help Zimbabwe prosper by working the land efficiently hence we had second strongest economy in Africa and sound infrastucture. From 1980-2000 land has exchanged on willing seller willing buyer basis between people under Mugabes govt as he has been in power since 1980. So my point of view is that After 1980 farms that were bought and sold etc taxes paid to Mugabe...he has no right to take those productive farms simply because people are white or because they are with MDC party because even some black Zimbabweans have lost land simply for being with MDC. Farms aquired in unfair situations in colonial times I feel the west particularly Britian are obliged to pay compensate the farmers and because Mugabe is corrupt they (UK) should pay the farmers direct for the land where as Mugabe needs to compensate for the improvments made to the land, the looting and damage and also compensate the farm workers who have been made destitute as a result of the unorganised violent land reform. One man one farm is a good policy and only if that fool mugabe would be genuine stick to his word and take the multiple owned farms that his cronies have taken for themselves and really help the genuine Zimbabweans. Many Govt ministers now have mutliple farms and are treating the remaining farm workers worse than slaves by not paying them etc.

Zimbo

July 17th, 2009, 02:21 PM

PS. Just to remind you Mugabe is not the real president its Morgan Tsvangirayi as Mugabe lost the last elections and Morgan won, hence he did not want to release the results and murdered 200 plus MDC people and refused to have internationally monitored elections.

There is enough land for those who want to farm and be farmers, this is about staying in power for fear of visitng the Hague for crimes against humanity and keeping their bank accounts fat! That is what mugabe is about.

Matthias Offodile

August 29th, 2009, 12:44 PM

http://postcardexchange.net/wp-content/uploads/hararepostcard.jpg

hmazai

September 15th, 2009, 12:44 PM

I thought China is supposed to be the largest investor.

How much of that was built since Rhodesia? Obviously the street system, trees and etc is from the old days.
I grew up in this city, i used to see alot of cranes and scafolding when i was young, most of the modern buildings were built between 1985 and 1999. in the new mellenium all the construction came to a stand still, i'm sure you all know why...

StormShadow

September 15th, 2009, 09:12 PM

It's becoming more difficult to find recent images of Harare than it was back in 2006-2008 for some odd reason. However, I found pictures of Old Salisbury which is know known as Harare.

August 1970

http://a.imagehost.org/0348/salisbury1.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0045/salisbury2.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0443/salisbury3.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0740/salisbury4.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0045/salisbury5.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0946/salisbury6.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0243/salisbury7.jpg

http://a.imagehost.org/0047/salisbury8.jpg

Images by all hails

Zimbo

September 16th, 2009, 01:09 PM

Hey guys I am visitng home (ZIM) soon at end of this month and intend to take lots of photos.....just need to know how to upload them on here when I get back. I just wish to hear some good news like ...new sky scraper planned for Harare etc that would really cheer me up...but i think it will be sometime before i hear anything like that. unless anyone knows something I dont regarding construction projects planned or happening in Zimbabwe?

Zimbo

October 27th, 2009, 11:43 PM

Just returned from Home (ZImbabwe) and had a great time. I have some city pics of Harare and a few of Gweru the 3/4 largest city..so just need to try upload them now.

StormShadow

October 28th, 2009, 12:00 AM

Thanks Zimbo! I am anticipating your photos!

You can begin a "Gweru | Zimbabwe | City Gallery" for your Gweru photos. We currently also have a Bulawayo thread.

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:10 PM

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009013.jpg/
http://http://img3.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009013.jpg/

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:12 PM

Ok storm shadow I have got this far but now am trying to make it so that the picture can be viewed directly in posting without having to ope a window. http://http://img3.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009013.jpg/

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:20 PM

http://URL=http://img145.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009022.jpg/]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8393/zimbabwe2009022.th.jpg[/URL]

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:26 PM

http://img98.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009028.jpg/

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:34 PM

http://img9.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009024.jpg/

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:40 PM

http://img145.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009022.jpg/

http://img28.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009045.jpg/

http://img28.imageshack.us/i/zimbabwe2009029.jpg/

Zimbo

October 28th, 2009, 03:45 PM

hey guys I have loads more photos of different ares to post as well but I want to have the pics straight up on here...not a link so how do i do that? Hope you can access what I have uploaded so far. It was unusually cloudy for Oct the first two days I was in Harare sorry the pics are not as bright....was annoyed about but then the rest of the holiday was fantastic there!

StormShadow

October 29th, 2009, 12:18 AM

Thanks for the update, Zimbo!

StormShadow

October 29th, 2009, 04:04 AM

Clickable

http://a.imagehost.org/t/0723/harare1.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0723/harare1)

You are to blame

October 30th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Kenguy

October 30th, 2009, 07:38 PM

Looking at the cars on the street, they appear to be models made after 2000. Hardly the picture of economic hardship. Thanx Zimbo.

Zimbo

October 30th, 2009, 11:43 PM

Zimbabwe was in spring when I was there and the streets colourful with purple or red or yellow or pink flowering trees which look great. I hardly saw any potholes, they were laying down optic fibre internet cables and theres was some laying down of new pipes for water. Thstreets need a good clean and new signs up and new strret light poles are needed though. SOme traffic lights work other dont. SO it wouldnt take much to bring it back...just a good sweep and painting and sorting pavements. There were so many smart cars being driven and many new mansions being built....hard to believe that ZImbabwe has had such a dismal last 10 year economic crisis. The shops are full with food now...all things you need. But there are lots poor people. People still very fiendly but lots suspicions as when I asked to take photohs from a tallish building of Harare I had to interviewed first to assure I was not a spy etc. Travelling arounf I never had to go through even one road block unlike 2 years ago were so many. But I read of late the politics is deterioating again!!!! Zimbabwe was great and I miss home ...but I had pounds to spend you see which helps.Im going to try upload my other pics now.