The following is a list of some of the major ethnic groups in Chicago; it is hardly inclusive of all of them; others could readily be added...and should.

We tend to view Chicago and Chicagoland by seeing strong enclaves or strong infleuence of these groups in the various locales.

Not based on any raw numbers but on your own perceptions, could you name 2 or 3 communities (or more) on the groups below that you actually associate with neighborhood or suburb:

WASP
Irish
Germans
Italians
Irish
Poles
Jews
non-differentiated European heritage Catholics
Greeks
Swedes
Russians (Jews or non-Jews)
Eastern European Slavs (not Poles or Russians)
African Americans
Arabs
Chinese
S.E. Asians (Vietnam, etc.)
Indian subcontinent
Fillipino
Koreans
Mexicans
Puerto Ricans
Other Carribean or Caribean African decent
Central Americans
South Americans
Africans (not African Americans)

How exactly do you play ethnic geogrpaphy with Chicago? Want to try your hand at any that draw a picture in your mind of this united-nations-in-a-city of ours?

WASP is such a dodgy term, really ... a lot of assumptions in that acronym that don't accurately reflect being of English heritage.

Irish- Beverly Hills (95th and Western) and Morgan Park; South Side Irish.

Koreans- Argyle and Broadway?

Japanese- NW burbs, especially Arlington Heights

Well, there was a website that showed population densities of different races in the city on a map. I forgot the site and cannot find it, but interestingly enough, somebody posted a picture from it on wikipedia of the black population denisities below.

The boundaries are sharper than I thought.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Black_chicago1.gif

Jews: Buffalo Grove, Highland Park, Deerfield, Northbrook, West Rogers Park, the north side lakefront

Whoops, I just remembered; the maps were on the city of chicago website itself. To see the maps, follow the link below. Distribution by race is right below the distribution by age links:

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/city/webportal/portalProgramAction.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@0383911573.1197883697@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddmkilidifcefecelldffhdfhl.0&programId=536886818&channelId=-536894593&topChannelName=Exploring

A couple of other resources:

http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/3889.html

http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1762.html

Well, there was a website that showed population densities of different races in the city on a map. I forgot the site and cannot find it, but interestingly enough, somebody posted a picture from it on wikipedia of the black population denisities below.

The boundaries are sharper than I thought.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Black_chicago1.gif


That shows how ridiculously segregated the city is. Just look at the dan ryan, on the lakeshore side and west of it. Two different worlds. Theoretically, if we all got along and loved each other, that would be an even color all the way across for all races. Maybe one day, huh.

Oh well, I believe many other midwest cities have a similar pattern though, such as detroit, milwaukee, and even Minneapolis.

Nowadays?

-South Asian: the Devon corridor
-Orthodox Jewish: Roger's Park, just to the north
-Puerto Rican: Humboldt Park
-Mexican: Pilsen
-Southeast Asian: THE LINCOLN MOTEL BROTHELS
-Chinese: Chinatown

Way back when...

-Jewish: Maxwell Street!
-Assyrian: Wrigleyville (this, at least, is the community into which my Assyrian mother and her extensive family settled... kind of a remarkable transformation, huh?)

Contemporary non-ethnic communities:

-gay men: Boystown
-gay women: Andersonville
-old scene: Wicker Park
-rich scene: Bucktown
-new scene: Pilsen, Chinatown
-Trixies/Chads: Lincoln Park, Lake View
-ex-suburbanites: South Loop
-the anti-establishment establishment: Hyde Park

Theoretically, if we all got along and loved each other, that would be an even color all the way across for all races. Maybe one day, huh.

If you would like to make us all the same your world would be perfect. Some of us love living in cities as diverse as Chicago. The map you chose to respond to doesn't show diversity.....such as Rogers Park.

That being said, hopefully such maps will be a little less blunt about peoples' decisions to live in specific parts of the city.

Nowadays?

-South Asian: the Devon corridor
-Orthodox Jewish: Roger's Park, just to the north
-Puerto Rican: Humboldt Park
-Mexican: Pilsen
-Southeast Asian: THE LINCOLN MOTEL BROTHELS
-Chinese: Chinatown

Way back when...

-Jewish: Maxwell Street!
-Assyrian: Wrigleyville (this, at least, is the community into which my Assyrian mother and her extensive family settled... kind of a remarkable transformation, huh?)

Contemporary non-ethnic communities:

-gay men: Boystown
-gay women: Andersonville
-old scene: Wicker Park
-rich scene: Bucktown
-new scene: Pilsen, Chinatown
-Trixies/Chads: Lincoln Park, Lake View
-ex-suburbanites: South Loop
-the anti-establishment establishment: Hyde Park

God I'm ignorant on some terms....tixies, chads? help me out on this one (and I hope they aren't hanging chads!:))

I had no idea that Andersonville was a place where lesbians lived in signficant numbers.

Ch, I'm so glad you included non-ethnic groups; they are so relevant for today and they should be a factor for any group...ethnic or otherwise...that puts its inprint on a neighborhood.

If you would like to make us all the same your world would be perfect. Some of us love living in cities as diverse as Chicago. The map you chose to respond to doesn't show diversity.....such as Rogers Park.

That being said, hopefully such maps will be a little less blunt about peoples' decisions to live in specific parts of the city.

it's no small accomplish in Chicago's history to know that an African American will neither raise an eyebrow or cause concern being and living in most North Side neighborhoods.

I resent that the South is often given (rightfully) credit for how it has changedd since the Jim Crow/civil rights era while Chicago's acceptance of the racial equality and the considerable diminishing of the old white/black divide (mercifully also muted by the influx of Hispanics and Asians to our city) goes unmentioned.

You can walk down the corridors of the best and best-off schools in suburban Chicago and often see black faces...and nobody is acting like this isn't anything but the normal way things are supposed to be.

For all the problems that still remain, the vast, vast majority of contact betwen black Chicagoans and white Chicagoans is no more than the contact between one human being and another that it really is.

C'mon, folks, this Richard M. Daley's Chicago, not Richard J's.

I honestly think that one of the biggest things that Chicago has going for it is its incredibly strong collection of neighborhoods with their own identities. After growing up in the 'burbs, it's so great to be in a city where the communities are actually identified as "neighborhoods."
I live in Lakeview, so I've read plenty about the whole "Trixie and Chad" thing, which I don't get to be honest lol. I will say that when I moved into my building after flying in from Texas, Lakeview had the look and feel of Ann Arbor or Madison on Freshman Move-in.
On the segregation front, as an African-American, I do think that while Chicago (like all cities) has its issues, I don't feel anywhere near the racial tension that I felt was present in Dallas and DC. And being from Dallas, I can sadly say that I'm pretty well-schooled in the ways in which people can mistreat each other based on race.
Just my $.02.
P.S. And before anyone asks, yes, I'm a Cowboys fan, and yes I'm still really pissed about Sunday...

@edsg^The difference is though, us in the north are supposed to be far more accepting. However, throughout history, that has not really been the case. Sure maybe a little more accepting than the south, but not a lot more. Its kind of decieving, at least in the south you know what you are going to get. Anyways, seeing other races should not bother anyone in this day and age. But chicago seems to be a city more of subtle racism and segregation than anything today. Some of the past still lingers, but id like to think most are past that. of course, all wounds take time to heal.

Anyways, I wouldnt mind seeing smaller splotches here and there, but to see entire segments of a city one color (we aint talking about little enclaves now), and others another, still bother me a little. Of course that map doesnt show the whole story (its only one demographic), but it sure gives a pretty accurate representation if you ask me.

Choropleth maps are very misleading in that regard. Chicago's integrated areas show much more clearly on this map:

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1762.html

^Ah, there we are, a good one. At a quick glance it appears that wicker park, rogers-edgewater-uptown, hyde park, loop/southloop, and bridgeport, are the most diverse neighborhoods.

There is still much segregation though, we can clearly see very large portions of the city are one general racial category - and very clearly dilineated in most cases. Its basically; black in the southeast-south and west, hispanic in the far southeast, southwest, and northwest, white in the north and far northwest, and asian in near southwest and mixed in in the north.

I would say over time the lines will become less and less dilineated as I am sure this map in the 60's was even more harshly defined (and had far less hispanic or asian).

God I'm ignorant on some terms....tixies, chads? help me out on this one (and I hope they aren't hanging chads!:))



Trixie (woman)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A Trixie is a generally derogatory slang term referring to a young urban white woman, typically single and in her late 20's or early 30's. The term originated during the 1990's in Chicago, Illinois. The term was further popularlized by a satirical Website dedicated to the Lincoln Park Trixie Society, a fictional social club based in Chicago's upscale Lincoln Park neighborhood.

Trixies are typically depicted as "social climbing, marriage-minded, money-hungry young ladies that seem to flock to the upwardly-mobile neighborhood of Lincoln Park."[1] Another description calls them "the women with Kate Spade bags for every day of the week; the ex-sorority girls still lusting after big, dumb jocks; the women who go to law school to find husbands."[2]

As such, "Trixies" are not unique to Chicago but representative of a stereotyped subculture in contemporary America. According to National Geographic, this stereotype describes a "blond, late-twenties woman with a ponytail who works in PR or marketing, drives a black Jetta, gets manicures and no-foam skim lattes."[3] The equally stereotyped male counterparts of Trixies are generically given the name "Chad."[4]

Glad to be able to educate the old teacher.

it's no small accomplish in Chicago's history to know that an African American will neither raise an eyebrow or cause concern being and living in most North Side neighborhoods.

Lol...I guess. Not in LakeView and not in Lincoln Square. Cultures may clash, but I do not believe it is along racial lines.

Rogers Park is very diverse so not there either. Uptown and Edgewater have a larger than national average percentage of African American's living there too. Then we head over to the other neighborhoods that are heavly Asian or Hispanic......

It is easy to make broad accusations.....but hard to prove it. We have been down this road before. You know I am against all governmental and business forms of segragation but you also know I respect cultures enough to know and hope there will always healthy vibrant different kinds of neighborhoods....but just without all the crap so many have to put up with today.

We don't have to go the suburbs to find integration happening happily.

Trixie (woman)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A Trixie is a generally derogatory slang term referring to a young urban white woman, typically single and in her late 20's or early 30's. The term originated during the 1990's in Chicago, Illinois. The term was further popularlized by a satirical Website dedicated to the Lincoln Park Trixie Society, a fictional social club based in Chicago's upscale Lincoln Park neighborhood.

Trixies are typically depicted as "social climbing, marriage-minded, money-hungry young ladies that seem to flock to the upwardly-mobile neighborhood of Lincoln Park."[1] Another description calls them "the women with Kate Spade bags for every day of the week; the ex-sorority girls still lusting after big, dumb jocks; the women who go to law school to find husbands."[2]

As such, "Trixies" are not unique to Chicago but representative of a stereotyped subculture in contemporary America. According to National Geographic, this stereotype describes a "blond, late-twenties woman with a ponytail who works in PR or marketing, drives a black Jetta, gets manicures and no-foam skim lattes."[3] The equally stereotyped male counterparts of Trixies are generically given the name "Chad."[4]

Glad to be able to educate the old teacher.

Yeah, that's it. What I hate about the Wikipedia article, though, is that, while Trixies are part of a, let's say, "geographically transcendent" subculture, the Chicago manifestation (for which the terms "Trixie" and "Chad" should be reserved) is its own thing. A subspecies, or, sub-subculture, specific to Chicago (just as I'm sure other cities' Trixie-ish subcultures are uniquely suited to them).

Back me up if I get any of this wrong guys, but Trixies are generally associated with PR firms, boutiques and law school, which they usually only attend in order to find a husband. They will drive black jettas and may own a purebred dog.

Chads most likely grew up in an affluent Chicago suburb, attended a Big 10 university and are now probably in business or sales but may also be in law. Button-down, striped shirt paired with loose fitting denim and black leather shoes is standard attire. Short, gelled hair and generally clean cut.

Am I right or am I right??

I had no idea that Andersonville was a place where lesbians lived in signficant numbers.

Yeah, lesbians in SPADES. I think this is increasingly less true (there are a lot of gay men there now as well, young families, too), but its heritage is undeniable!

It is becoming increasingly more populated with gay men who are being "pushed" out of Lakeview by yuppies and families. There was an article in the Redeye last week about that:

http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/coverstory/red-121007-boys-main,0,753404.story
http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/coverstory/red-121007-boys-side2,0,2319255.story

Trixie (woman)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A Trixie is a generally derogatory slang term referring to a young urban white woman, typically single and in her late 20's or early 30's. The term originated during the 1990's in Chicago, Illinois. The term was further popularlized by a satirical Website dedicated to the Lincoln Park Trixie Society, a fictional social club based in Chicago's upscale Lincoln Park neighborhood.

Trixies are typically depicted as "social climbing, marriage-minded, money-hungry young ladies that seem to flock to the upwardly-mobile neighborhood of Lincoln Park."[1] Another description calls them "the women with Kate Spade bags for every day of the week; the ex-sorority girls still lusting after big, dumb jocks; the women who go to law school to find husbands."[2]

As such, "Trixies" are not unique to Chicago but representative of a stereotyped subculture in contemporary America. According to National Geographic, this stereotype describes a "blond, late-twenties woman with a ponytail who works in PR or marketing, drives a black Jetta, gets manicures and no-foam skim lattes."[3] The equally stereotyped male counterparts of Trixies are generically given the name "Chad."[4]

Glad to be able to educate the old teacher.

svs, you can never stop learning...and this proves there really is a name for everything (whether it is needed or not). perhaps i can make a living out of coining the name for the next groups of demographics lurking out there. thanx for the response.:)

as for the chads, i still think somebody is missing a real opportunity to introduce the word "hanging" into their description.

It is becoming increasingly more populated with gay men who are being "pushed" out of Lakeview by yuppies and families. There was an article in the Redeye last week about that:

http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/coverstory/red-121007-boys-main,0,753404.story
http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/coverstory/red-121007-boys-side2,0,2319255.story

Thanks for the articles, Akira. As a young gay man, I approach Boystown with a sort of ambivalence... it doesn't represent me, my lifestyle or my values in the slightest, yet it's the one place where I don't have to guess the sexual orientation of the guy who catches my eye. So this is kind of bittersweet. The concerned parent thing, though, is just plain frustrating. Gay people are the reason why that neighborhood is as prosperous as it is.

Two neighborhood questions, as I will be in Chicago for the next four days (hanging out with my sister who lives on W. Ontario in Wicker Park):

1. What is the difference between Bucktown and Wicker Park? Are they geographically and culturally distinct? I always thought they were interchangable, but this thread has deliniated the neighborhoods, and my sister sometimes makes a distinction.

I thought both neighborhoods were referring to the same area around the Milwaukee/Blue Line corridor.

2. Where exactly is Little Village? I know roughly where it is located, but I would like to explore the main commerical streets and maybe try some good Mexican. Whats' the name of the major street(s) and what's the closest L stop?

Thanks!

@edsg^The difference is though, us in the north are supposed to be far more accepting. However, throughout history, that has not really been the case. Sure maybe a little more accepting than the south, but not a lot more. Its kind of decieving, at least in the south you know what you are going to get. Anyways, seeing other races should not bother anyone in this day and age. But chicago seems to be a city more of subtle racism and segregation than anything today. Some of the past still lingers, but id like to think most are past that. of course, all wounds take time to heal.

Anyways, I wouldnt mind seeing smaller splotches here and there, but to see entire segments of a city one color (we aint talking about little enclaves now), and others another, still bother me a little. Of course that map doesnt show the whole story (its only one demographic), but it sure gives a pretty accurate representation if you ask me.

you're right about about. and on the North Side, right meant white. And on the northwest side, Jeff Park could have been Marquette Park. The biggest difference between South Side whites and North Side whites is that South Side whites viewed themselves as being in a border struggle and lived in fear that red lining and that scary, scary black belt would burst the borders (be they track or road) that prevented them from being overrun by infidels.

Educated and progressive Oak Park out west built cul du sacs that prevented traffic from reaching Oak Park's eastern limits, Austin Boulevard, and allow through traffic from Chicago's black Austin into an Oak Park that did not want to be overrun. Equally progressive Evanston up north had the long standing black community that Oak Park did not, but it too practiced real segregation. The black community was a community in location as well as race.

For vast areas of the North Side, the only reason there were no South Side type of turf battles was the lack of a significant North Side black community in the first place.

Suffice it to say from north to south to west (while exluding the more enlightened fish to the east), this was a racial tollerance ceaspool for more years than we'd like to count and be ashamed of. Just because somebody's skin color was different from ours.

Why when the issue of the segragationist who for decades have chosen to live on the south and west sides of the cities comes up does the source of the issue always land on the north side? It isn't the northsides issue.

Also you play so lazy with history. It is a known fact that when the irish moved into what we call river north area over 100 years ago that many races including african americans moved out of that area......Just trying to breath some depth into this slanted conversation.

Most northsiders have chosen to live in the most diverse neighborhoods in the city. It is the southside who have continued to build the segragationist cultures. The rest of us of all colors and cultures will continue to love live and thrive on Chicago's diversity.

Why when the issue of the segragationist who for decades have chosen to live on the south and west sides of the cities comes up does the source of the issue always land on the north side? It isn't the northsides issue.

Also you play so lazy with history. It is a known fact that when the irish moved into what we call river north area over 100 years ago that many races including african americans moved out of that area......Just trying to breath some depth into this slanted conversation.

Most northsiders have chosen to live in the most diverse neighborhoods in the city. It is the southside who have continued to build the segragationist cultures. The rest of us of all colors and cultures will continue to love live and thrive on Chicago's diversity.

well, isn't it nice, Chi3rd, especially for the lazy like me: you learn something new every day.

Here it is that I never realized that the similiar ethnic European checkerboard mix on the North and South sides were the same and...damn!...I find out that the water filtration plant was adding something on the South Side that wasn't on the north to create their bigotry.

Or perhaps it was choice. You know...Irish people moved to the South Side to torment "Negroes" and to the North to practice tolerance.

It never occurred to me that all this was going on and that each side had its own ethic. Silly me. I thought for the 20th century at least through the civil rights movement that virtually all American cities were battlegrounds between European ethnics (and other whites) with the blacks who moved to our cities. And talk about enlightenment, even the North Side's was exceeded by liberal, progressive yet strangely segregated San Francisco. The Giants moved west in 58 and Willie Mays could not buy a home. No wonder he took the first opporutnity to get back to New York with the birth of the Mets..

And the blacks...those wild and crazy people. Why they made it all the way from Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana during the Great Migration and got off on the IC's last stop at the 12th St (Roosevelt Road) Station...and decided to never take another step north of that...through the Loop and on to the North Side. I doubt a lack of welcome was a factor in this one at all, Chi 3.

Also weird in the enlightened North and its own bunagloo belt in places like Jeff Park, smashed windows, ripped tires, and spray-painted "N-I-G-G-E-R" were part of the bungalo experience, just like s.w. in Marq Pk.

And while the North Side was never very well known for its black community, its Jewish community was always quite large, quite prominent, and gobbled up a lot real estate on the Far North Side and near north & North Shore suburbs. Except in places like Sauganash, east Glenview, and Kenilworth which were "restricted".

And isn't this whole story just so incredibly funny to get upset about today considering that even with race still a problem, THIS IS A MORE, MORE TOLLERANT, MORE DIVERSIFIED CHICAGO THAN THE ONE IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY. You know, 3rd, kind of celebration of the North and South and West sides in knowing we have come a long way, baby.

It's like...I see the de facto segregation era in Chicago at its most despicable peak to be little more than part of our city's past and a cause for celebration on how we have changed (and a challenge to finish the job). So saying that neighborhoods were red lined, race riots occurred, and Martin Luther King was pelted with fruit isn't really that much different than saying the Capone gang did quite a job in that Clark St garage on St. Patrick's Day, just like Mrs. O'Leary's cow did on the lantern. History. Pure and simple.

And while we're at it...I spent most of my life north of Madison Street. I love the North Side. Why would you think I'd want to bash it even if I were ignorant of the city's history and lazy on the facts?

well, isn't it nice, Chi3rd, especially for the lazy like me: you learn something new every day.

As long as you maintain such a liniar view point you will never be part of the solution. Your memory is so selectively forgetful....like you have asked this questions 300 different ways and you know I respond the same each time.

You know I agree the problem of segragatoin had its roots in Chicago (deep roots) historically....this is as far as you will go in the discussion.

You know that I agree that if there is any sort of governmental or corporate discrimination (such as grocery stores not placed where people live because of the color or their skin or being redlined by a bank) that SEVERE consequences need to be imposed on those bodies. Why did Dorothy Tilman run here ward into the ground? To keep power. Why did Dorothy Tilman run after slave owners of 100 years ago and not business now that come into our city and exploit the city give nothing like services or jobs in our southern and western areas? Why is the city council that is now composed of more latino and african american leaders...still not doing much to help out their wards...they are keeping people poor and powerless.

You know I believe that and love the diversity and the cultures that create this city. I don't want a blah neighborhood...with everyone melting into one way of looking or behaving or the nutering of cultures....I can get that in the suburbs.

You know I believe that it will take family, neighbors, Churches, business, aldermen and the police (who need a huge cultural and morality shake-up) in each district that is suffering from violence and poverty and they will need to be supported by the City as a whole.

It will take all that to make change. Supporting victim hood will only keep many of the churchs, council members and political exploiters in business and making money hand over fist for years...while people still live in blight.

Love your passion....but it is so 80's and you see where that has gotten our city....no where.

As long as you maintain such a liniar view point you will never be part of the solution. Your memory is so selectively forgetful....like you have asked this questions 300 different ways and you know I respond the same each time.Love your passion....but it is so 80's and you see where that has gotten our city....no where.

oh, i'm so 80's. well that explains it.

and i was under the impression i said that Chicago is a VASTLY different palce today. Didn't mean to trample on North Side sensitivity either.

I'm glad you know me and what makes me tick. Truthfully I can't say the same about you. Or really too much of anyone around here. I'm not in the business of psychoanylzing any of you folks, just sharing ideas and knowing, in the process that I throw bull shit around as well as...well...all of us do.

Where on earth am I stuck in the 80's? And didnt I make it more than clear that Chicago was just another big American city when it came to the issue of black/white clashes from when the migration started from the rural south to urban north (and to a lesser degree west). All I did was put Chicago in the context of US city...are you seriously suggesting that historians would find fault about the racial change that was pervssive during 20th century urban America.

And am I really to believe that North Siders were a more tollerant breed than their South Side brothers? C'mon. That is patently ridiculous. The story of race in Chicago is more a story of America than a story of Chicago.

How that rooted me in the 1980's, I'll never understand although I will say history is highly interprestive, none of us has the whole picture, and where you did come in on the story is part of that special perspective we have on the subject.

You not seeing this the way I do, 3rd, doesn't make you wrong; it merely means that you see it and interpet it in a different light than I do. I, unlike you, find you neither lazy on the facts or twisted on the subject because we don't see eye to eye on that. I'm in no position to judge you.

If you said 2 + 2= 5. you'd get a huge argument from me. But this isn't math. And I have no plans to degrade you by telling you where your thinking is faulty or where you are off base.

Would it have helped if I had included a large IMHO when I made my response that troubled you?

Albany Park has everything.
It has one of highest percentages of foreign-born residents of neighborhoods in Chicago. Although the majority of those foreign-born residents are from Latin America, the majority from Mexico (especially from the state of Michoacán) and Guatemala, substantial numbers are from the Philippines, India, Korea, Cambodia, the Former Yugoslavia (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia), Romania, Pakistan and the Middle East (especially Iraq, Iran, and Lebanon).
Over 40 different languages are spoken in its public schools.

Yup yup, I had friends from everywhere.
When I moved to maywood the kids here didn't know half of the places they where from.

Albany Park has everything.
It has one of highest percentages of foreign-born residents of neighborhoods in Chicago. Although the majority of those foreign-born residents are from Latin America, the majority from Mexico (especially from the state of Michoacán) and Guatemala, substantial numbers are from the Philippines, India, Korea, Cambodia, the Former Yugoslavia (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia), Romania, Pakistan and the Middle East (especially Iraq, Iran, and Lebanon).
Over 40 different languages are spoken in its public schools.

Yup yup, I had friends from everywhere.
When I moved to maywood the kids here didn't know half of the places they where from.

and i remember Albany Park at a time when the schools virtually had to shut down on Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur. Diversity at that time was basically in the form of orthodox, conservative, and reformed!

3rd, one more question if you will:

I always thought I'm one of those obnoxious guys who sings Chicago's praises any change I get. Where did you get the idea I was being critical of our windy and wonderful city...or even its windy and wonderful north side? Hey, I bleed Cubbie blue, you know (with a little Sox black and white mixed in).

Would it have helped if I had included a large IMHO when I made my response that troubled you?

You need to make this your signature so it is included in every last one of your posts. :lol:

You need to make this your signature so it is included in every last one of your posts. :lol:

it's all perception anyway, isn't it. it's not like we're rocket scientists here or speaking the gospel truth. but I like your idea: IMHO covers a helluva lot of asses and does it legitamately by saying it's just what we think, little more.:)

3rd, one more question if you will:

I always thought I'm one of those obnoxious guys who sings Chicago's praises any change I get. Where did you get the idea I was being critical of our windy and wonderful city...or even its windy and wonderful north side? Hey, I bleed Cubbie blue, you know (with a little Sox black and white mixed in).

The pattern seems to be you ask a question expecting it to be answered one way and when people expand or share their view point you pounce on them. Sort of like you want a yes man convention or something. Plus matter of "fact statements" do not fly with me on most issues since society is much more complicated than that and society is always evolving.

The 80's was referenced because it was the birth of a milgnant idea call "victimization living". We need to study who things went wrong...who were and are the victims and how to stop the situation from creating victims...but we also need to note that there is now...since the 1980's a cottage industry that farms this "victimization living" for a living and can only survive as long as there are victims, which to me means things will never improve.

I believe we are on the same boat.

The pattern seems to be you ask a question expecting it to be answered one way and when people expand or share their view point you pounce on them. Sort of like you want a yes man convention or something. Plus matter of "fact statements" do not fly with me on most issues since society is much more complicated than that and society is always evolving.

The 80's was referenced because it was the birth of a milgnant idea call "victimization living". We need to study who things went wrong...who were and are the victims and how to stop the situation from creating victims...but we also need to note that there is now...since the 1980's a cottage industry that farms this "victimization living" for a living and can only survive as long as there are victims, which to me means things will never improve.

I believe we are on the same boat.

Let’s see. At this point you have let me know that

1. I see things in a linear way that will never be part of the solution
2. My memory is selectively forgetful
3. I ask the same question 300 different ways
4. I play it so lazy with history.
5. my conversations are slanted
6. I expect questions to be answered one way
7. and if I don’t get them answered that way I poune on people (the old hissy fit and pounding my fists on the ground routine)
8. I’m hopefully stuck in the 80’s
9. I’m into whole “victimized living” thing
10. I possibly killed Christ (ok...I lied on that one. I didn’t see you write that one. yet.)

Chi3, I love it: you know me better than I know myself, but, hell, I’m all for personal growth, character building, and becoming a better person. However, the list of nine though is a little short. And having gone through therapy at various times, I know it can be very expensive. So if you would be so kind to expand the list to maybe 70 or 80 (90 tops...definitely no more than 100) other faults I can work on, it would save me the expense of laying down on that coach while giving me ample opporutnities to change course and set myself going the right way. I’m sure the list could be generated with ease and certainly in a minute or two.

In the meantime, thank you so much in your interest in helping me pursue the right path. It is greatly appreciated. And you have a wonderful holiday season.

BTW...if we're in the same boat, may I assume I am the one who poked the hole in the hull with the sharks below and was pouring buckets of water into the vessel, not bailng it out?:):)

....
I edited out all the information that did not pertain to the subject at hand. Look what we are left with.

I edited out all the information that did not pertain to the subject at hand. Look what we are left with.

Chi3, I'm hardly looking for some kind of shitfest here and I have no desire to carry this discussion on for 40 more posts either.

It's just, you confuse me. You "edited out" the information that did not pertain to the subject, but my post was about - and had been cut and pasted - to include the very personal stuff you wrote about me that I never felt was part of this dialouge. either.

Pardon me, but why would it be surprising to anyone to think that such observations wouldn't indicated somebody has a serious problem with me and the way I post.

It never occurred to me to tell you "what I think of you" (no opinion there) or that I even recognized your posting style...or those of other posters forumers. I'm really more interested in the ideas we share here than who is saying what is said.

So I am more to end this "issue" which is trivial, but I just wanted to let you know the only reason I have responded is that you gave me every indication by the number of obserevations that you seemed to have a problem with me. that, in essence, it was personal.

****

I would like to ask you a question based on the relevancy of the discussion. apparently my north side obserations made you uncomfortable. I'm hardly a north side bashed...the vast majority of my life has been spent in the north (side/suburban) sector of Chicagoland and my orientation is definitely north.

and for all the "most segregated" title Chicago supposedly earned through the years, my observations not only were never geared for the North Side of the city or even the city iteself...but to how race has been (and contnues to be) an issue in American life.

I don't know about you, Chi3, but I believe that African Americans have been given a pretty damned raw deal in the US from the institution of slavery in the colonies, up to the need for a Civil War to force freedom, through the Reconstruction era which turned much of that freedom into conditions little better (if at all) than slavery itself, followed by the almost century long Jim Crow era where blacks were kept in their place through the institutions of the Deep South and the de facto segregation of the northern cities.

That many of the white people who blacks went head to head with in our northern cities were European ethnics who were none-too-welcome in the US is undeniable. But those immigrants were cosncioiusly put into that melting pot to come out pure white and pad white numbers against a group of people with dark skin that our nation always wanted to keep apart.

That the racism that is so pervassive to American life played out on our city's north side along with the south (and in cities, towns, and villages across the nation) is not surprising. There is no special status the folks north of Madison St had that those south did not.

And I also meant what I said: while we are still incredibly far from perfect, we have come a long way...north side, south city, city, Chicagoland. We are more tollerant today. Our neighborhoods tend to be more racially integrated (even if economic segregation has gone the other direction). And the influsion of large numbers of Asians and Hispanics has really shattered the truly polarized black-white divisions of an earlier time of what appeared to be a direct conflict between two groups.

I don't know how much you see of what I see. I assume not that much. But it is my interpretation of what has happened and really no more a description of modern Chicago than gangsters with guns in violin cases or cows kicking over lanterns.

What I'm saying is this: my remarks were historical in nature, and hardly current.

And I don't see myself as a fanatic on the issue, nor am I literally "black and white" on the black and white issue. There were no particular "villians" among ethnic groups in racially changing Chicago. Many white ethnics were poor. They feared racial change in their neighborhoods because it would mean a complete white-to-black turnover. And if they owned a home, they worried about banks red lining their property and making it less valuable if a black moved into the hood. And bascially much of what these people faced was created by the establishment in the first place.

And sure the "system" created the matriarchal society that decimated black life in our cities, but like many who would agree with within the African American community, I as a white man also realize that black Americans hand to do for themselves to and can't afford to play the role of a victim to advance...although victimization is definitely there.

You thought these issues were part of my perspective and were introduced from the very start, but that wasn't the case. The conversation that started innocenently enough on my part with "what areas do you associate with what ethnic groups" morphed into the black and white issue. It wasn't mine.

Well, enough said...maybe too much. I have nothing to add, nor do you need to feel you have to respond. There is no "issue" on my part now. I merely wanted to let you know I interpreted your observations to having more probelm with me than with the ideas I was presenting. And maybe I was wrong on t hat one, too.

Peace.

what's east ukrainian village like? i just got a place there but haven't had the time to really look around extensively (i'm on the other side of the world right now)

looks to be mostly white and hispanic, and some eastern european immigrants?

Irish- Beverly Hills (95th and Western) and Morgan Park; South Side Irish.

Koreans- Argyle and Broadway?

Japanese- NW burbs, especially Arlington Heights

Argyle and Broadway is Vietnamese Town,
Korea Town used to be West Lawrence ave. and now is on Bryn Mawr between Kedzie, and Kimball, and Along Lincoln Ave. between Rockwell, and Peterson. As far as Japanese go; they are too small of a pop. in Chgo, so they are spread out all over.

what's east ukrainian village like? i just got a place there but haven't had the time to really look around extensively (i'm on the other side of the world right now)

looks to be mostly white and hispanic, and some eastern european immigrants?

East Village is east of Damen to Ashland and south of Division to Grand ave.
The Hispanics moved in late 60's/early 70's. However due to gentrification in the 90's and on, the neighborhood is mostly yupie, with a scatter of Hispanics who are left. There is no dominant ethnic group in the Yupie category due to a complex variation of various White-American ethnicities, Indians,(mostly Gujarat college grads, or successful Indian transplants due to globalization, and Korean/Filipino, especially women who are married to mostly white American men; which is a very common sight in gentrified areas.

East Village is east of Damen to Ashland and south of Division to Grand ave.
The Hispanics moved in late 60's/early 70's. However due to gentrification in the 90's and on, the neighborhood is mostly yupie, with a scatter of Hispanics who are left. There is no dominant ethnic group in the Yupie category due to a complex variation of various White-American ethnicities, Indians,(mostly Gujarat college grads, or successful Indian transplants due to globalization, and Korean/Filipino, especially women who are married to mostly white American men; which is a very common sight in gentrified areas.

Chicagostyle, East Village sounds interesting and diverse. I know little about it. Is it one of those places that doesn't register the way it should with people who don't live there (in contrast to places like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Bucktown, and Wicker Park), or is it just my ignonance of the place that is an issue here?

East Village is east of Damen to Ashland and south of Division to Grand ave.
The Hispanics moved in late 60's/early 70's. However due to gentrification in the 90's and on, the neighborhood is mostly yupie, with a scatter of Hispanics who are left. There is no dominant ethnic group in the Yupie category due to a complex variation of various White-American ethnicities, Indians,(mostly Gujarat college grads, or successful Indian transplants due to globalization, and Korean/Filipino, especially women who are married to mostly white American men; which is a very common sight in gentrified areas.

so i've been here for a week now and you're definitely right about this place being yuppie, everyone here seems to be young midwestern transplant couples with no kids and a couple dogs...kind of weird considering my first impression out of the train station was seeing a k-mart, a wendy's, mexican restaurants, and a chinese takeout place

fairly different from my neighborhood in los angeles which was predominantly hispanic and asian

Chicagostyle, East Village sounds interesting and diverse. I know little about it. Is it one of those places that doesn't register the way it should with people who don't live there (in contrast to places like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Bucktown, and Wicker Park), or is it just my ignonance of the place that is an issue here?

i like the neighborhood but i wouldn't really call it diverse...imagine sushi bars, boutiques, thai restaurants, and spas

to me it seems like all the "diverse" places in chicago are further out from the center

so i've been here for a week now and you're definitely right about this place being yuppie, everyone here seems to be young midwestern transplant couples with no kids and a couple dogs...kind of weird considering my first impression out of the train station was seeing a k-mart, a wendy's, mexican restaurants, and a chinese takeout place

fairly different from my neighborhood in los angeles which was predominantly hispanic and asian



i like the neighborhood but i wouldn't really call it diverse...imagine sushi bars, boutiques, thai restaurants, and spas

to me it seems like all the "diverse" places in chicago are further out from the center

You cannot compare such an urban area with La this neighborhood was very ethnically diverse back in the 50's and 60's.Ukranians, Italians, and Poles. When Hispanics took over diversity of ethnicities all moved further west of Damen which is still mostly ethnically Ukranian with families.

i'm hardly comparing the two, i just said my neighborhood in LA was a lot different with a predominantly hispanic and asian population. i'm describing what the place is like now not 50 years ago

i'm hardly comparing the two, i just said my neighborhood in LA was a lot different with a predominantly hispanic and asian population. i'm describing what the place is like now not 50 years ago

Yes I understand the reason I ask not to compare ethnic patterns in neighborhoods is because the ethnicity distributions are very different . LA is too spread out and not as ethnically diverse as most Chicago neighborhoods are still now, They just moved four blocks west. That's how close Chicago neighborhoods are to each other and unlike LA the buildings were not torn down since 50 yrs ago the ambiance is still there.

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