OPEN LETTER TO JOHN BANKS

[SYDNEY]

I have sent this letter to NZ Herald, John Banks and many others ... I suggest that you all do the same before things are out of control ... his email address is: mayor@aucklandcity.govt.nz


“This is a second chance opportunity for me to make a difference, a big difference. And all going well, Auckland will be the winner,” “ensuring public amenity through cleanliness and safety”. “I will push for more central government and police focus in these areas”. I will bring back a zero-tolerance policy for graffiti and vandalism”. “Public drunkenness and anti-social behaviour is not something we should tolerate”

These are not my words but the words and promises of Auckland’s mayor John Banks. I can’t help feeling that the citizens of Auckland City have somehow had the wool pulled over their eyes – why ? I have lived in Auckland’s city centre for 28 months and I have NEVER seen Auckland so filthy, teeming with vagrants, anti-social behaviour and the amount of tagging is phenomenal. It is also perplexing that this has only started happening since John Banks has been sitting in the hot seat. It seems only fair then that I and others should remind John Banks of his promises, lest he forgets.

I am glad that I am not the only one that has noticed this negative change but many of my colleagues and friends have also noticed the amount of litter lying around (litter that has been building up for days), vagrants sprawled out on Queen Street’s new street furniture and bus shelters, vagrants walking around in gangs harassing people, teenagers publicly urinating in Queen Street and buildings are becoming more and more riddled with graffiti. The state of affairs in Auckland is also being discussed in open public forums on the internet. Everybody is concerned about the way things are going under the “leadership” of John Banks and the new slogan being touted is “Absolutely NEGATIVELY Auckland” – is this John Bank’s legacy ?

It is early days BUT no excuse for the way that things are sliding downhill and may I add, rapidly. Should this continue we will all be living in Johannesburg, New Zealand. A scary thought and definitely not the kind of place that I and others would like to live in. The time for you to act on your promises is NOW or make way for somebody that has the will to do it. It is time for manned CCTV, daily clean-ups of graffiti (a lesson can be learnt from Newmarket in this regard) and to place “Bobby’s-on-the-beat”. While you are sitting counting pennies, the city is deteriorating. We all have faith in you and we will NOT forget the promises that you made. You owe it to ALL of us, after all, we have given you a SECOND chance.

[Kane007]

Subtle and very nicely written.

Will you also share with us the replies? I'll keep an eye in the NZH for it also.

[SYDNEY]

Subtle and very nicely written.

Will you also share with us the replies? I'll keep an eye in the NZH for it also.

Thanks Kane, I have sent an email before and I got no reply (Hubbard always replied to my emails) ... I will share the reply with all of you (if I get any ;) ) ... yes, please do keep an eye out for me, I don't get to see the NZ Herald everyday. I hope that it will make a difference - we went into the city yesterday and it was shocker. Mr KF has got some photographic evidence :)

[aucklandman]

Your letter raises points that dissapoint us all. But....

I'm not sticking up for John Banks, who has only been mayor for a few months now, but why does the letter so plainly blame him?

"It is also perplexing that this has only started happening since John Banks has been sitting in the hot seat"

So the rubbish and graffiti has become so much worse in the last 60 days because the new mayor has been elected?

I see what you mean by creating a wake up call for the council, but I dont think you should directly make it Banks' fault.

As everything you have raised is already in his agenda:

Delivering you a safer and more friendly city is a responsibility of the police and the council. More work needs to be done to ensure the enforcement of laws and bylaws, such as the alcohol accords for mainstreets. This also means returning emphasis back onto community policing where there is a better understanding of local law and order requirements. I will push for more central government and police focus in these areas.

I will bring back a zero-tolerance policy for graffiti and vandalism. Perpetrators will be pursued through criminal and civil courts to ensure the strongest deterrent.

Public drunkenness and anti-social behaviour is not something we should tolerate. The council will work closely with the police to ensure our neighbourhoods remain safe and friendly. We need to encourage a late night culture that respects both residents and local business.

http://web.mac.com/aaronbhatnagar/iWeb/Banks/Mayoral%20agenda.html

[SYDNEY]

Your letter raises points that dissapoint us all. But....

I'm not sticking up for John Banks, who has only been mayor for a few months now, but why does the letter so plainly blame him?

"It is also perplexing that this has only started happening since John Banks has been sitting in the hot seat"

So the rubbish and graffiti has become so much worse in the last 60 days because the new mayor has been elected?

I see what you mean by creating a wake up call for the council, but I dont think you should directly make it Banks' fault.

As everything you have raised is already in his agenda:

The buck has to stop somewhere and if you are going to make promises in order to be re-elected, well, well, best you stick to them. Banks is fully aware of what he was getting himself into when he placed his bum on the "hot seat" - it isn't just cock-tail parties and praise. He is the leader and the only one that can delegate duties. Approach the 3rd or 4th in command and nothing will ever happen.

When I have a problem with service from a Company/institution, I don't ask for the manager, I ask for the CEO. The sad truth is that things have just been deteriorating in the last couple of weeks - strange but true ... I am perplexed and the question needs to be asked - why ? It is up to Banks to find that reason and deal with it - he is getting paid a salary to do just that. He is the face and voice of Auckland.

[MonsieurAquilone]

Some comments on this forum seem to be taking on a socialist bent (against my colours). I voted in Banks and C&R provided they fulfill their promises. Unfortunately, as ENIGMA has pointed out, they are letting things slip and there needs to be at least some effort made in the city apart from "counting pennies" just to save a buck or two. Public money is there to be spent, WISELY (this is where I agree with Banks). It is still early days and I commend your letter ENIGMA, let's hope there's a reply, and no matter where my political leanings lie, it is all about principle and as such Banks must be held accountable if he does not fulfill his promises.

Advance.

[piles]

It's a great letter. Aucklandman is right though, this is nothing new it's been like that for years.

I think what they should do first and foremost is move the City Mission off Hobson Street and out of the city. Don't get me wrong, the Mission does great work and provides a vital service, but its location is all wrong. So many times I walk past it and there is a police car parked outside sorting out some trouble, intimidating guys sitting on the Hobson Street bus shelter while the people actually waiting for buses have to stand and obscenities being yelled (is it against the law to swear in public?)....right next to Sky City one of the countries biggest tourist sites. I don't know if the Mission owns the building or rents it (lovely old building by the way), but whatever the case they would get (or save) alot of money if they move out of town. I use to work in a Queen Street shop and the amount of homeless glue sniffers we got in intimidating staff was unbelievable....and never a policeman to be seen. Do those security guards still patrol the City, or was it deemed to costely??

[jarbury]

Where are most of Auckland's homeless people located? The CBD.

The City Mission has to be there. It's being redeveloped, but in the end most cities around the world has homeless people. Generally the ones in Auckland are actually pretty sweet compared to overseas countries. I'd never been openly asked for money before I went to Sydney when I was 18, and I got asked about 20 times in the course of a week and a half there.

[piles]

^^ And why are most of the homeless there? Because that's where the Mission is. Move the mission and the homeless will follow. I'm not saying move it out to the wop wops, but just out of the main CBD. Being asked if I have any spare change doesn't bother me, I got that alot when I lived in London. Being intimadated by spaced out people that you can't reason with does.

[Kane007]

Sounds like J Witnesses that come to my door :nuts:

[Svartmetall]

The homeless will not follow. Where are the best food courts? Where are there the most pedestrians? Where are there no security guards able to throw them off private property?

The answer is the CBD. They come and pinch food left in food courts, they experience high levels of foot traffic and thus can beg effectively and no security guards come along and move them off the street. The only other comparable places for begging in Auckland are shopping centres and these are strictly off limits to homeless people. Even if you relocate the mission you'll not relocate the problem.

Thank you for your letter Enigma, I agree that things have gone downhill pretty quickly and I hope there is a fast upward trend soon. I would argue slightly with Ben's points about it not being Bank's fault. It is strange that litter in particular seems to be worse since Banks came in. I've noticed a marked difference between when I finished University and my trip into the city a few days ago - there was litter everywhere!

As for MA's comments about socialist leanings, I'm sorry I'm a bit of a Greenie and a bit more socially minded, but at least I'm not stupidly in favour of spraying all of our suburbs with chemicals in an attempt to wipe a species out! ;)

[Blah]

The homeless will not follow. Where are the best food courts? Where are there the most pedestrians? Where are there no security guards able to throw them off private property?

The answer is the CBD. They come and pinch food left in food courts, they experience high levels of foot traffic and thus can beg effectively and no security guards come along and move them off the street. The only other comparable places for begging in Auckland are shopping centres and these are strictly off limits to homeless people. Even if you relocate the mission you'll not relocate the problem.

Thank you for your letter Enigma, I agree that things have gone downhill pretty quickly and I hope there is a fast upward trend soon. I would argue slightly with Ben's points about it not being Bank's fault. It is strange that litter in particular seems to be worse since Banks came in. I've noticed a marked difference between when I finished University and my trip into the city a few days ago - there was litter everywhere!

As for MA's comments about socialist leanings, I'm sorry I'm a bit of a Greenie and a bit more socially minded, but at least I'm not stupidly in favour of spraying all of our suburbs with chemicals in an attempt to wipe a species out! ;)


It may have more to do with the time of the year (schools out, emo goth kiddies running around) then anything Banks has done. Can anyone actually verify that he has changed anything that would result in lots of litter?

TBH, I've noticed no change.

[Sister Ray]

Sounds like J Witnesses that come to my door :nuts:

:lol:^^:lol:

[SYDNEY]

It may have more to do with the time of the year (schools out, emo goth kiddies running around) then anything Banks has done. Can anyone actually verify that he has changed anything that would result in lots of litter? TBH, I've noticed no change.

It was definitely not like this last year this time, I still re-call my mother stating that she couldn't believe how clean the city is and I agreed with her. This year (the same time) it is DISGUSTING !!

[SYDNEY]

If I saw more than 5 vagrants in the street it was a lot. Now I encounter more than 5 within 2 city blocks and the worst is that they all meet up, get pissed and then go and harass the tourists at Kingslow Landing. As you all know that part of town is teeming with tourists and it has also become a nightmare for the office workers who go and have their lunch there.

Things have changed dramatically .... I have also never seen drunk teenagers just pull their dicks out in Queen Street and piss on the pavements - well now I have and it is disgusting. The CBD needs "bobby's-on-the-beat" before things get worse.

Remember that I come from a country where everybody was "complacent" and now it is a nightmare to try to revert back to the way that things were. This is exactly how a city loses control. Stop it now. The onus is on Banks - he made the promise and he should deliver.

[SYDNEY]

Also - thanks for all the support. Let's see if The NZ Herald will actually publish it :)

[Neitzsche]

Wait a minute Enigma, I'm shocked. The man has undergone extensive and elaborate transmogrification, turning him from the grubby little political animal of his fist term, into the glorious butterfly of a mayor we know have standing astride of AK. Your lack of understanding of the transmogrification process is painfully obvious. And don't go pointing to reality or his track record, that's also been fucked with to look beautiful. Just relax and think of the tens of dollars we're all saving.

[GoluBoy]

Bring Back Hubbard!

[MonsieurAquilone]

No.

[Milan Luka]

Feel a ramble coming on in response to Enigmas letter. Apologies for the length. Good on you for putting your 2 cents worth in. I havent spent much time downtown of late so cant give my perceptions.

If a number have noticed a declined I think thats a concern. I would think that if anything when a new administration comes in they would attack everything with fresh paint of coat and sweep every bit of crap under the carpet- metaphorically speaking. That way the citizens get an initial feeling of things being done and done fast. "Wasnt that a good idea to vote X in, done so much more than Y already and it's only been 2 months". Given time things tend to slip again but it's usually so gradual the only people that notice are 'anal retentives' (copyright payment on its way Utopia) or people who have been away and return with fresh eyes.

We can all do 'our bit' and that can range from picking up the empty soft drink can on the footpath right through to spending the spare $200k we each have on a civic pride campaign. (if only, we could get P Money, Nicky Watson and Pansy Wong all rapping about how dope it is to drop our shit everywhere)Ultimately the buck stops with the top dog. He holds the purse strings and he can employ people to keep the city clean, tag free, he used to Minister of Police and his mantra was 'more cops'. Im sure he can lobby to put more cops on the street. I think that is an important first measure. I'm a bit of a hardcore nut when it comes to zero tolerance- I'm all for coming down hard on any form of public misbehaviour or nuisance. For instance anti social behaviour is not tolerated in Brisbanes Queen St Mall any time of day- doesnt mean doesnt happen- you do know though that when it does occur the cops'll be onto it pronto.

Downtown Auckland is relatively safe, clean and easy going. I like your point though that we shouldn't be complacent. Its feasible that you could wander down say Wellesley St and see 5 or 6 hobos within two blocks, then someone could follow them 10 minutes later and see none. The reality is though that even in Auckland they are there. I believe the only difference to most other first world cities is that our bums are not there for economic reasons. Ours are druggos or mental patients. Im not sure about people in that state and I dont know what to propose there. If its normal business hours and we have people menacing the general public than I think we SHOULD expect a cop to be on hand within 2 minutes to sort things out. On the flip side I heard an argument when in the Uk that seeing police on the street gives the impression theres alot of crime about and isnt good for pleasant community feel. I thought that was a strange perception and it turned me a few more notches to the right.

Letter writing is the way to do it. Politicians are aware that for every polite, non ranting, legitimate disgruntled letter they or a publication receive there are at least another 100 people out there who agree but are either too busy to put pen to paper or not quite pissed off enough yet to do so. And I dont think it hurts to ratchet up your complaint a little. Instead of seeing one broken bottle you can say you saw 3. Also seems to mean more to them if you say that have always voted green/blue/red/purple but now are thinking the others might be worth a go and have discussed this with everyone at work and many there agree. That kind of statement does have impact with them. Once again 1 x 100.

[aucklandman]

^^ Good comment,

And as you say that "people have noticed a decline" personally I dont think anything has changed, and most people are just agreeing, the city has always been kinda messy, but not too bad, it does need a clean up, but its not really as bad as enigma describes, or increasingly bad.

And thank you 'Blah'

It may have more to do with the time of the year (schools out, emo goth kiddies running around) then anything Banks has done. Can anyone actually verify that he has changed anything that would result in lots of litter?

TBH, I've noticed no change

You are right...

And enigma where did you dig the term Vagrants from?? :lol:

[SYDNEY]

And enigma where did you dig the term Vagrants from?? :lol:

Is it a term not used here ? ..... "A vagrant is a person, usually poor, who wanders from place to place without a home or regular work. Urban vagrants are commonly called "street people".

[Kane007]

Gotta like the American system of "Recall Elections" - that's how gubernator Swatzenager got in :)

[SYDNEY]

^^^ It might still come to that ;)

I lodged a complaint with ACC regarding Beaumont and Dudgeon Streets regarding the build-up of litter (nothing has been done there for WEEKS) and this was the response (and they responded within 24 hrs - good on them) .... still nothing from Banks ;)

Hi Sydney,

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns.

I have logged jobs through to have Gudgeon Street and Beaumont Street cleaned. These will be done within 5 working days. The job numbers for these are CRM 8000004452 for Gudgeon and CRM 8000004378 for Beaumont. If you have any queries, please quote these numbers.

If you notice other streets that need cleaning, litter that needs picking up, graffiti that needs removing or have any other concerns, please contact us either via email or by phoning our call centre on (09) 379 2020 and speaking with one of our friendly customer service representatives. Our call centre is available 24 hours, 7 days to facilitate this for you.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to contact me via email, or by telephone on (09) 379 2021 extension 7122, if you require any further assistance.

Kind regards,


Iona Clarke
Customer Service Representative
Auckland City Council
Location: Civic Building, 1 Greys Avenue, Auckland
www.aucklandcity.govt.nz

[aucklandman]

^^ Good work mate ;)

[Svartmetall]

^^ Good comment,

And as you say that "people have noticed a decline" personally I dont think anything has changed, and most people are just agreeing, the city has always been kinda messy, but not too bad, it does need a clean up, but its not really as bad as enigma describes, or increasingly bad.

It perhaps isn't "that" bad when compared to other cities, but it is noticably worse than it was before. When you take a step back from the city for half a month and then go back and notice litter flying around (something that Auckland is normally very good at preventing) you tend to act as if someone slapped you round the face with a haddock.

Like I said before, it might just be seasonal variation, and if so we'll be seeing Auckland back and running again as per usual. I'll reserve full judgement of Banks until I next restart Uni. ;)

[SYDNEY]

^^ Good work mate ;)

Thanks - they should not have given me the contact number, now I will be hounding them :lol:

[SYDNEY]

It perhaps isn't "that" bad when compared to other cities, but it is noticably worse than it was before. When you take a step back from the city for half a month and then go back and notice litter flying around (something that Auckland is normally very good at preventing) you tend to act as if someone slapped you round the face with a haddock.

Like I said before, it might just be seasonal variation, and if so we'll be seeing Auckland back and running again as per usual. I'll reserve full judgement of Banks until I next restart Uni. ;)

Litter and the general up-keep of street-scrapes is something that I pay attention to and it has definitely become a bit of a nightmare. Yes, we are better than most cities so let's keep it that way. No reason to be even better than we currently are ;)

[SYDNEY]

Just had a walk through the CBD and I am very pleased to report that it was spotless - I haven't seen it this clean in a long time ... :)

[Svartmetall]

That's good. Perhaps it was just a minor hiccup like I said earlier. Nevertheless, if they let standards slip again I'll be writing a letter along side yours!

[SYDNEY]

That's good. Perhaps it was just a minor hiccup like I said earlier. Nevertheless, if they let standards slip again I'll be writing a letter along side yours!

:lol: I am also keeping an eye on them, the more the merrier ;)

[SYDNEY]

Just received this email (which is the same email that I received after reporting some tagging in our neighbourhood, nearly a year ago) :lol:

Thank you for your email of 17 December.

The council and I share your concerns about the graffiti vandalism problem that Auckland City continues to suffer. It is important for us to create a good first impression on visitors to our city and that we provide a pleasant environment for those people who already live and work here. Controlling graffiti is an important aspect of that work and one that we take very seriously.

I can advise you that Auckland City Council presently has a zero tolerance to graffiti vandalism programme operating. Nearly 600 graffiti vandals have been arrested or apprehended during the last 5 years. All these offenders have faced Criminal Court or Youth Justice proceedings. Most of these vandals have been ordered to pay reparation for their damage and perform community service work for city contractors.

I can also advise you that we are working on a project in partnership with the Police Board of Management that is aimed at enhancing our existing relationship, and developing a more collaborative approach to the graffiti problem regionally. Our Graffiti Adviser, Mr Rob Shields, is a member of the Auckland Regional graffiti forum. All the Auckland Territorial local authorities are represented on the forum.

There are several factors that can adversely affect our service response times. Inclement weather, colour matching, and authority from property owners are some examples.

To report the presence of graffiti please contact our call centre on 379 2020.

With regards to vagrancy and disorderly behaviour in the city, the Mayor is also taking a zero tolerance approach to these matters and is keenly following up on eradicating this type of behaviour from our city.

Kind Regards

Julie Hartley-Janssen
Executive Assistant to
His Worship, the Mayor of Auckland City, Hon. John Banks QSO

[SYDNEY]

And the good news keeps coming, Craigy has just reported that he saw some policemen moving some vagrants on from the ferry building and emptying all their booze out .... good job boys.

[MonsieurAquilone]

And the good news keeps coming, Craigy has just reported that he saw some policemen moving some vagrants on from the ferry building and emptying all their booze out .... good job boys.

Perhaps Banks has seen your email and is now sweating over it, away in a corner, doing everything possible not to disappoint you. :lol: Good to hear.

[SYDNEY]

Perhaps Banks has seen your email and is now sweating over it, away in a corner, doing everything possible not to disappoint you. :lol: Good to hear.

Would be nice if that was the case :lol: but I think that they are also reading these forums ;) ... and .... I am sure that he has received loads of emails, not just from me.

[Milan Luka]

^^ Excellent. In that case, anybody spot any slipping standards then might be a good idea to post here as well!

[Kane007]

Yeh, it makes you wander what sort of lurkers are, well, lurking these threads :).


Am what I'm going to type going to get me fired... no wait I left work today - yah! Full time Daddy!

[SYDNEY]

Just been for a walk through the city and what a PLEASURE, very clean .... thank you ACC :cheers:

[aucklandman]

Very well done Enigma, or should we just say that the city just had a bad day!

[SYDNEY]

Very well done Enigma, or should we just say that the city just had a bad day!

:lol: a bad MONTH .... I must hand it to them, they are pulling out all the stops right now :cheers:

[MonsieurAquilone]

Just went to: Auckland Museum/Domain environs, Queen St-bordering Quay Street and the area near Auckland Grammar. Everything looked very clean and well presented. The emerging pohutukawa framing the museum also looked wonderful against the city skyline backdrop which will put smiles on the faces of tourists. All looking very beautiful! :D

[Kane007]

Why don't you have your camera grafted to your arm - ala Mr KF or E?! :)

Just finished reading your notes and now, the true pic junky I am, am just starting to suffer with drawls!

[MonsieurAquilone]

ENIGMA!! If you don't know already, I saw your letter in the Herald on Sunday!! Reads just as well as it does on the net. Hopefully it kicks even more stuff into action to combat the stuff you listed. Congratulations!! :D:D

[MonsieurAquilone]

Why don't you have your camera grafted to your arm - ala Mr KF or E?! :)

Just finished reading your notes and now, the true pic junky I am, am just starting to suffer with drawls!

:lol::lol:

[Mr_kiwi_fruit]

ENIGMA!! If you don't know already, I saw your letter in the Herald on Sunday!! Reads just as well as it does on the net. Hopefully it kicks even more stuff into action to combat the stuff you listed. Congratulations!! :D:D

Yeah I went and got the paper to check it out - all there except the "Absolutely negatively Auckland" part - but does read well none the less.:)

[BLUFFMASTER_Auckland]

^^ Where is it on the net?

[GoluBoy]

^^errrr...try page one of this thread.:lol:

[SYDNEY]

I received another reply, this one from Paul Goldsmith - still no response from John Banks ..


Dear Sydney,

Thank you for your email sent to Auckland City Council on 17 December 2007, outlining concerns about vandalism and disorderly behaviour in Auckland city. I agree that the current situation is unsatisfactory. Tackling graffiti, vandalism and other anti-social behaviour is essential to improving Auckland city’s safety and security. These are substantial community issues that the Auckland City Council takes seriously to resolve.

Further to Julie Hartley-Janssen’s (Executive Assistant to His Worship, the Mayor of Auckland City, Hon.John Banks QSO) response dated 18 December 2007, Auckland City Council has numerous programmes and partnerships designed to reduce the criminality in Auckland city, which include:

-
Alcohol action planning to improve practices of alcohol management and reduce the incidence of alcohol-related violence on the streets
-
A perception of safety survey to cover the entire area of Auckland City Council which will be completed in 2008
-
Annual mayoral safety awards ceremony to acknowledge people in the community who have significantly contributed to road, criminal reduction, injury prevention and community safety in Auckland
-
An upgrade of the monitored police closed circuit televisions (CCTVs) in the central business district (CBD) according to contracted timeframes
-
Community safety planning based on recommendations from crime prevention through environmental design (CPTED) assessments. Activities are coordinated across internal and external stakeholders to respond to the concerns of the community.
-
Development of street lighting guidelines for staff and contractors in Auckland City Council
-
Implementation of activities within the homeless action plan including support for the after hours mobile outreach service that is coordinated by the Auckland City Mission and developing a new contract with the Methodist Mission Northern for the provision of streamline wrap around services that will provide alternatives to living on the street.
-
Roll out of the national car park safety accreditation system in three pilot sites.

Whilst there is much to be done, Auckland City Council in collaboration with agencies and the community, is taking a proactive approach to addressing criminality in the city.

[MonsieurAquilone]

God.. Bureaucroland writing is so tiring to read -- "Community safety planning based on recommendations from crime prevention through environmental design (CPTED) assessments."

[Kane007]

Lol, it makes just want to vomit everywhere! you know the sort of sick fealing you get after several minutes spinning round and round!

[SYDNEY]

Yeah, I agree, who writes this shit anyway ?

[Kane007]

Very likely somebody who may be a tad anal retentive :nuts: or hasn't had sex.....ever!

[SYDNEY]

Very likely somebody who may be a tad anal retentive :nuts: or hasn't had sex.....ever!

Oooooooh ...... that reminds me of somebody from this forum ...... mmmmm who can that be ;)

[Svartmetall]

Oooooooh ...... that reminds me of somebody from this forum ...... mmmmm who can that be ;)

I wonder who you're alluding to... If it's me, oh well...

Also - that letter is... Really pointless waffle. Pity they didn't post it to you, you could have used it as cat litter liner or something like that.

[SYDNEY]

I wonder who you're alluding to... If it's me, oh well...

Also - that letter is... Really pointless waffle. Pity they didn't post it to you, you could have used it as cat litter liner or something like that.

Of course it is not you :lol: .... I think that it is somebody that writes for the Herald *hint hint*

[Svartmetall]

Of course it is not you :lol: .... I think that it is somebody that writes for the Herald *hint hint*

Well, I had to ask! I am a bit anal retentive about a few things, and I'm the first to admit it!