Shocking news for South Africa

[SYDNEY]

New Zealand can expect an influx of South Africans now ... it is a very, very sad day for South Africa :ohno:


Mbeki embraces Zuma after victory

South African President Thabo Mbeki was on Tuesday toppled from the helm of the ruling African National Congress by arch rival Jacob Zuma, the man he sacked as deputy head of state two years ago. After a bitter election contest which saw some of Mbeki's chief lieutenants booed and heckled at an ongoing conference, Zuma was formally declared the winner by a margin of 824 votes. "The number of votes received by Comrade Thabo Mbeki was 1 505. The number of votes received by Comrade Jacob Zuma is 2 329," Dren Nupen, head of the party's elections commission announced. Mbeki then hugged Zuma and delegates erupted into chants of "ANC, ANC".

The 65-year-old was sacked by Mbeki as deputy head of state in 2005 when his financial adviser was jailed for fraud, and he later stood trial for raping a family friend less than half his age. Although he was acquitted, he was widely ridiculed for testifying that he had showered after sex with his HIV-positive accuser in order to prevent infection. Given the ANC's large majority in parliament, Zuma would normally almost be guaranteed the job of state president come elections in 2009 after his victory in the internal contest. But he faces being charged with corruption after losing a recent court bid to have a series of search warrants declared illegal.

While Mbeki has two years left as state president, his authority has been badly undermined by the defeat, with some commentators predicting he could face efforts by Zuma's camp to force him out of office early. An ethnic Zulu whose earthy charm contrasts sharply with the aloof Mbeki, Zuma has cashed in on growing disillusionment with the government's failure to eradicate poverty in the 13 years since the end of white rule. Although Mbeki, also 65, can point to an uninterrupted period of growth, unemployment is unofficially estimated to be around 40 percent. Many analysts believe however that Mbeki's defeat was more as a result of his aloof and authoritarian style which had alienated many in his party rather than a firm vote of confidence in Zuma.

"Mbeki lost for a lot of reasons (but) the main reason is the question of leadership style," said Steven Friedman of the Pretoria-based Institute for Democracy in South Africa. "He irritated a lot of people. Some of that you have to do when you are in power. But much of it could have been avoided." Kgalema Motlanthe, the outgoing secretary-general who will now serve as Zuma's deputy, denied there were disagreements over policies which he said were reached by consensus at a five-yearly conference which was last held in June. "We have communists in our ranks, we have hard-nosed capitalists in our ranks. To keep them together... through engagement and persuasion we agree on a consensus position," he told reporters shortly before the result was announced.

[Milan Luka]

I was watching this live on CNN this morning and was scratching my head in amazement but still not at all surprised. To have Mbeki as the second post Apartheid President seemed a bit hard to swallow- but from what I can gether Zuma makes Mbeki look like Mandela. Must be very strange for SA's watching this from outside of the country.

It concerns me what type of person Zuma is. The rape trial, saying he knew she wanted sex with him because she was wearing a short skirt. And then there's his famous you get rid of Aids by having a shower. Although didnt Mbeki believe that Aids wasnt a problem in SA?

And Im sorry I dont trust people who have so much fat on the side of their head that it cuts into their glasses arms.

[Svartmetall]

It is just as my girlfriends family feared. Zuma is a complete and utter nut job who really shouldn't be the leader of the ANC. Of course, because he's ANC it means that he will definitely be the next President of South Africa, meaning even more trouble on the way - especially with his contraversial gun laws.

I know that my girlfriends Grandmother wants to move all her money out to New Zealand now so that it is secure and out of the ANC's grasp...

[SYDNEY]

They say that you have been in Africa too long when you support a corrupt and militant politician - SHOCKING !! Craig's sister has already phoned asking how she can apply for NZ Residency, my mother is shitting herself and two of our friends have emailed saying - "see you in NZ", my cousin feared the worst and she sold her business a couple of weeks ago, she is off to The UK :)

The biggest fear is that he will be another Mugabe, after all the promises that he has made to the poor, I won't at all be surprised if he is pushed into a corner and becomes another militant dictator.

I hope that we are wrong but I doubt it very, very much. It is the nature of the beast.

[Svartmetall]

I think people are overreacting a little to be honest. I doubt that SA would close its borders and prevent emigration any time soon - though I do agree with sequestering savings elsewhere in the world in a foreign currency bank account if you can do so.

We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out. I don't hold huge hopes with him being a BIIIIIG union man. But then the Xhosa vote might swing against him because of Mbeki's defeat in the race - though I still doubt they'd vote DA.

[SYDNEY]

I think people are overreacting a little to be honest. I doubt that SA would close its borders and prevent emigration any time soon - though I do agree with sequestering savings elsewhere in the world in a foreign currency bank account if you can do so.

We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out. I don't hold huge hopes with him being a BIIIIIG union man. But then the Xhosa vote might swing against him because of Mbeki's defeat in the race - though I still doubt they'd vote DA.

Craig and I predicted the ANC in-fighting before we left South Africa and I can guarantee you that it is only going to get worse ... Africans LOVE power and will walk over anybody to get it or keep it.

[Svartmetall]

The biggest problem is the fact that those who are elected are handing out power to people who don't necessarily have the background for leadership based primarily on their ethnic group (IE Zulu vote Zulu etc). The lack of harmony between the different ethnic groups will, like you say, lead to infighting which is unfortunate. This is the impression I get as an outsider from following your news and politics as closely as I can from a distance.

Then the crux of the problem, you've got some people saying such rubbish like the former health minister with her "beetroot, ginger and African potato prevents AIDS" and Zuma and his "I showered afterwards so obviously I'm not going to get AIDS". These people are clearly not well read, educated or primed for positions of power like other world leaders.

Lack of knowledge and ignorance + power = Oh dear.

[Milan Luka]

Craig's sister has already phoned asking how she can apply for NZ Residency, my mother is shitting herself and two of our friends have emailed saying - "see you in NZ"

IMO let them come. Sad to see SA having these troubles but if it causes more to leave I for one will be happy to role out the welcome mat. The South Island would love an influx!

[Mr_kiwi_fruit]

eish! Now the uneducated hate-filled masses of SA have a 'legitimate excuse' to throw those fridges out of their apartment windows in Hillbrow comes new years eve. :ohno:

[Mr_kiwi_fruit]

Lack of knowledge and ignorance + power = Oh dear.


IMO they shouldn't even make the short list for prospective char or gardening positions.

[Svartmetall]

^^ :lol::lol:

[Dazzle]

NZ is an empty country population wise.
SAs are more than welcome.
Hopefully the current Government and any future Government will make the immigration process a little easier for our SA/Zimbabwe friends. :)

[SYDNEY]

NZ is an empty country population wise.
SAs are more than welcome.
Hopefully the current Government and any future Government will make the immigration process a little easier for our SA/Zimbabwe friends. :)

Craig has just told me that a colleague at work told him that he hasn't heard from his sister in 2 years and this morning she phoned him from South Africa to find out how she can immigrate to NZ .... more and more will flock here and I am also hoping that the NZ Government will make things a little easier - not too easy though ;)

The ones that will leave SA are the ones with skills, good for us here in NZ :)

[GoluBoy]

^^ N.Z Government entry requirements for all Saffers.....

*Must bring lank biltong!:)

*Must bring "super cute" Moffies!:banana:

*Must bring Witblitz:cheers2:

*Must bring Lekker clothes;)

Apart from that!......"The doors open,come on through".:cheers:

[SYDNEY]

^^ N.Z Government entry requirements for all Saffers.....

*Must bring lank biltong!:)

*Must bring "super cute" Moffies!:banana:

*Must bring Witblitz:cheers2:

*Must bring Lekker clothes;)

Apart from that!......"The doors open,come on through".:cheers:

:lol: My word, you really know your stuff ;) very cute. I haven't heard some of those words for more than 2 years now.

[Davee]

BBC Radio 4 has been featuring this all morning. It sounds like there is a storm gathering in SA. They were saying in addition Zuma is homophobic as well.

I'm waiting to hear what Archbishop Tutu is going to say - I'm sorry to say, but he is one of the only SA voices I trust on the international circuit (as well as the present Archbishop of Cape Town).

[Svartmetall]

BBC Radio 4 has been featuring this all morning. It sounds like there is a storm gathering in SA. They were saying in addition Zuma is homophobic as well.

I'm waiting to hear what Archbishop Tutu is going to say - I'm sorry to say, but he is one of the only SA voices I trust on the international circuit (as well as the present Archbishop of Cape Town).

I agree, Tutu despite being a religious man is a voice of reason in a sea of corruption. He spoke out quite often against Mbeki so it should be interesting to hear his take on Zuma.

[Davee]

I agree, Tutu despite being a religious man is a voice of reason in a sea of corruption. He spoke out quite often against Mbeki so it should be interesting to hear his take on Zuma.

His religion enlightens his reason - that's why I think he is a fine example of a priest.

[SYDNEY]

Mandela is also close to my heart but he has no voice left, you are right Tutu is the one and only sane one left. Did you see how these delegates behaved ? SHOCKING ! half naked barbarians, remember that these are the very same people that are making most of the decisions in South Africa .....

[SYDNEY]

GRAHAMSTOWN -
Stunned supporters of South African President Thabo Mbeki said he had brought defeat on himself in the contest for leadership of the ruling ANC. A day after Mbeki's bitter rival Jacob Zuma took over as ANC head, Mbeki's followers in the Eastern Cape, his power base and heartland of his Xhosa tribe, could hardly believe that he and all his party lieutenants had been swept from power. "How could he allow this to happen to him? Being humiliated like this," said Phelela, an Mbeki supporter who declined to give her surname.

"We thought the president knew better than insisting on standing in these elections despite advice from colleagues not to do so," she said, her voice choking with emotion. Mbeki went ahead with his bid for a third term as ANC leader despite strong predictions that he would be humiliated by Zuma. Now there are fears that he will be a lame duck for the remaining 18 months of his term as head of state. Zoleka Mapasa, an office administrator in Grahamstown, blamed Mbeki's defeat on his "failure to keep in touch with the grass roots", and said even the Eastern Cape had found it necessary to desert him:

"He was out of touch with what was happening on the ground, but his opponent kept a close ear to the grass roots." The Eastern Cape, a vast swathe of dry land flanking the Indian Ocean from Port Elizabeth in the south to Port Edward in the north, is the birthplace of Mbeki and his political mentor, Nelson Mandela, both from the ethnic Xhosa group that has long dominated the ANC. Mbeki, head of the ANC since 1997, and his top five lieutenants all lost their places on the ANC executive in Tuesday's election. In Grahamstown, a university town 120km northeast of Port Elizabeth, many people were angry at the passing of the leadership to Zuma, a Zulu, when Mbeki has presided over nine years of unbroken economic growth.

"What can Zuma put on the table in terms of growing the economy except being a comrade?" Mapasa said. Zuma's close ties with trade unions and the Communist Party, have sparked fears he will tilt South Africa to the left. "I can't even imagine where we go to from here," Mapasa said.

[Svartmetall]

His religion enlightens his reason - that's why I think he is a fine example of a priest.

I often find that religion can cloud a persons reason and add a hint of bias to their rhetoric, but like I said, Tutu is one of the rare examples of people who doesn't let his religions agenda influence his own personal beliefs on right and wrong.

(PS, I'm not irreligious I am dating a Catholic, but I still think that adding religion to politics is a recipe for disaster!)

Also - it's just as I said that there might be some Xhosa backlash, it looks like the Eastern Cape is unhappy. This might spell good news come the next elections!

[NZer]

For fucks sake, what is it with Africa and corruption, it's like the two are synonymous(spelling ?) with each other.

It would be great for South Africa to sort out it's crime, poverty and disease but it is going to need good, honest leadership for that.
I hope one day all people in South Africa can join us in the developed world, it just seems like there is so much squandered potential there, after all it has already come a long way.

[BLUFFMASTER_Auckland]

Is South Africa a developed country or a developing one??

I wonder how they actually classify countries-if they are developed or not??
:weird:

[NZer]

I have only ever heard it refered to as developing.

[Milan Luka]

Is it 1) First World 2) Developing and 3) Third World ????

[BLUFFMASTER_Auckland]

1st World?????
2nd World-Communist Countries ?? :nuts:
3rd World: Everything else??

I'm sure Svartmetall would know more about this kinda stuff :)

[metroman]

I would assume it is a combination of all three.