http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6134998120_51ba76dbb6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/happybeau/6134998120/)
Memories of a soon to be a past generation. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/happybeau/6134998120/) by beau-dog (http://www.flickr.com/people/happybeau/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6086/6124479781_0b44e13933_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zinetv/6124479781/)
Remembering the Towers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zinetv/6124479781/) by zinetv (http://www.flickr.com/people/zinetv/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6200/6134088873_aca32412f6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevensiegel/6134088873/)
WTC 9 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevensiegel/6134088873/) by stevensiegel260 (http://www.flickr.com/people/stevensiegel/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6183/6128050469_ffa39fecea_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29353395@N03/6128050469/)
World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29353395@N03/6128050469/) by j.mayfield (http://www.flickr.com/people/29353395@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6208/6129521476_2ccb80b654_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56742958@N03/

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7089/39283330.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1874/63408296.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3351/53043353.jpg

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2188/85281114.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n60/William12_2006_2006/world%20trade%20center/cae7cf7wtt2.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n60/William12_2006_2006/world%20trade%20center/caqzkn7wym1.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-DplvbZzMCe4/SJO1JeS855I/AAAAAAAADcQ/qIH9V9YvMd4/s512/Scan112.jpg

Opening day March 1973

All credit goes to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wavz13/

:cheers:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2750/4084655324_8f56ee3534_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5688787058_521a96813d_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5085/5328947360_fe0fb3c1df_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1389/5105799951_47f5f50bb4_z.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2468/4084653394_e5bf9f4862_z.jpg

Not sure if this is real or not, but I like it anyway.

http://www.goodwp.com/pic/201104/1024x768/goodwp.com-17676.jpg

Tenho saudades dessas maravilhosas torres, fui ai quando criança, e jamais me esquecerei daqueles incríveis prédios ,são tempos que não voltam mais, porem nunca sairão de nossas lembranças.

Like he said .......

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1389/5105799951_47f5f50bb4_z.jpg
I actually recall there being a parking lot here. How long did it last?

I had a question and this was the only place I found to ask. The old south tower had a door on the roof to let the tourists up on the observation deck. But what about the north tower? Was their a hatch/door on the north tower's roof? I know maintenance workers had to go up there from time to time..

I always wonder, were the towers at the same "level" I mean, if you see the pictures from the entrance trhough the Tobin Plaza they look of course on the same level, when when you see pictures from the Marriott Hotel angle, the hotel itself is located (of part of it) below a wall (there is a garage entrance if I am not mistaken) plus there were some stairs next to the WTC 6 I think, so, were the streets in a 90º angle (if you were heading to the Financial Center) or there was a change in the levels of Plaza?

I don't know if I am making myself clear, is kinda hard to explain! Ha! hope you get it!

if you have pics from these angles the better!

http://i54.tinypic.com/2hnuc14.jpg

1971 at the office of Yamasaki and Associates. I believe this model was in the towers and destroyed on 9/11. At least one model was saved though and is now at the Skyscraper Museum in Manhattan.

Here's a set that was linked on a thread on SSP, these were taken circa 1999 and are some good shots of what a typical office floor looked like. The office that I worked in on the 99th floor of the North Tower (Marsh McLennan) didn't look too different.

These are on the 58th floor of WTC2.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jefflanka/WTCPics#

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-1JZ_2Q_W6MA/TJNdpaoF5rI/AAAAAAAAAD0/AtFbQ6or2Qg/s640/my08%252524010.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-BWVXkkYoQnk/TJNd1EhPYsI/AAAAAAAAAD8/rPI0BgmvH_k/s640/my08%252524012.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-oI3V100cOhk/TJNd0546PDI/AAAAAAAAAD4/31TyL8NUNfo/s640/my08%252524011.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-jwJ4HKO-pTo/TJNd1Hmo3xI/AAAAAAAAAEA/eucZ2mGphx8/s640/my08%252524013.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-LVTmKTAZHSk/TJNdpfYj_7I/AAAAAAAAADw/dwb5VbOb-Wc/s640/my08%252524009.jpg

What happened to the upper level of west street???

I always wonder, were the towers at the same "level" I mean, if you see the pictures from the entrance trhough the Tobin Plaza they look of course on the same level, when when you see pictures from the Marriott Hotel angle, the hotel itself is located (of part of it) below a wall (there is a garage entrance if I am not mistaken) plus there were some stairs next to the WTC 6 I think, so, were the streets in a 90º angle (if you were heading to the Financial Center) or there was a change in the levels of Plaza?

I don't know if I am making myself clear, is kinda hard to explain! Ha! hope you get it!

if you have pics from these angles the better!

The Tobin Plaza was level and had entrances to each tower at a mezzanine above the lift cores. The Hotel and ground floor were aligned to west side highway and the Financial center over the road. Last time I went to the old WTC I had to access via a stair or escalator across from the original WTC 7. That is one thing I think is missing from the new memorial.....to stand near the corner of the original tower is actually below grade of the old plaza.
I took this pic at the observation deck level in tower 2 in 2000.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5792/newyorkmodelwtc2000.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/newyorkmodelwtc2000.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I was frustrated at the time seeing the first tall building on the left of pic on the East River orientated 90 deg to reality ??? I know the city was foreshortened to bring the ESB etc into the model but now it's all gone anyhow......

Few shoots of WTC.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/6982219/img/6982219.png

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/6982220/img/6982220.png

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/6982221/img/6982221.png

More..

These were on meh_cd's photobucket. I know he's on the forums, so I just wanted to say thanks for sharing!

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/?start=0

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nycfoto_PIC00003-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nycfoto_PIC00005-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/res1-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/Suite4047--looking-out.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/Suite4047-Long-View.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wtcvq4-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/322543797_cb6745ed3b_o.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/322543349_5a9a1ab880_o.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/ibes-lobby.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/mvc-350f.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/mvc-342f.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/mvc-360f.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/1019.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/bar03.jpg
^ I walked by this sign every morning on my way to the 99th floor. I hated seeing it then, but I would give anything to walk past this sign again, take an elevator up to 99, and end up in an office full of people; people who are no longer with us.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/g13.jpg

The following pictures are from LMCC, which setup artists' spaces in untenanted space on the 91st and 92nd floors of the North Tower. These spaces were leased free-of-charge to the students. My girlfriend (at the time) was in this art program, and I worked 8 floors up, so I'd come down here on my lunch break (and have lunch with her), and check out the art projects.

Notice the columns. These were the core columns of the structure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wv_ss_02_studio_nizri.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wv_ss_05_studio_nizri.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wv_ss_09_studios.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wv_ss_10_studios_winter_2000.jpg

Notice the columns. These were not structural to the tower, but were actually made of drywall, and were used for running cabling (electrical, telephone, data) from cubicles to the ceiling where it then ran into the core of the building. These were probably left over from previous tenants.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wv_ss_02_studio_nizri.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wv_ss_09_studios.jpg

Looking at the beams on the ceiling, it looks like they actually were (the) structural (core) columns.

Looking at the beams on the ceiling, it looks like they actually were (the) structural (core) columns.

My mistake, looks like you were right. On floors that Marsh McLennan occupied, the core columns were usually hidden behind walls, so I'd never seen them out in the open like this.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im_837_lg.jpg

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6572/108919.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/108919.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Bonus: WTC in... GTA4!

http://hbxworks.com/wtc/images/hbx/hbx27.jpg

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=440585&st=0

I've made my own WTC (paper model).
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=79939794&postcount=23062

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6581/img1528resize.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2314/img1531resize.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/8265/img1533resize.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2749/img1535resize.jpg

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/389/img1538resize.jpg

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3083/img1540resize.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9347/img1554resizef.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9977/img1555resize.jpg

Mr. Yamasaki standing with his models for the WTC, circa 1967.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6087/6119523472_04522ef7ae_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24443965@N08/6119523472/)
MINORU YAMASAKI -- Standing with His Models of the WORLD TRADE CENTER (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24443965@N08/6119523472/) by Okinawa Soba (http://www.flickr.com/people/24443965@N08/), on Flickr

Skylobby concept, circa 1967, showing proposed uses for skylobby at floors 44, 78. In the end, the 78th floor skylobby became office space, while the 44th floor skylobby in the North Tower was occupied by the Port Authority's employee cafeteria/lounge.

http://i39.tinypic.com/98bjgl.jpg

I posted these on here a few years ago but I figured I would do it again. They are panoramic pictures of Cantor Fitzgerald's WTC offices at the top of the North Tower.

http://timhawkings.com/gallery.php5?category=4&album=1&page=1&photo=Lobby.mov

If anyone has any interior pictures that haven't been posted on here, PLEASE post them. I am very interested in seeing more pictures of offices.

I posted these on here a few years ago but I figured I would do it again. They are panoramic pictures of Cantor Fitzgerald's WTC offices at the top of the North Tower.

http://timhawkings.com/gallery.php5?category=4&album=1&page=1&photo=Lobby.mov

If anyone has any interior pictures that haven't been posted on here, PLEASE post them. I am very interested in seeing more pictures of offices.

I have those saved to my hard drive. Certainly unique.

I have a folder with over 1000 interior shots. Most are on my photobucket, and have probably been posted here already. Plus I think some are duplicates, so probably more like 800 or something.

I have those saved to my hard drive. Certainly unique.

I have a folder with over 1000 interior shots. Most are on my photobucket, and have probably been posted here already. Plus I think some are duplicates, so probably more like 800 or something.



I've looked through a lot of your folder and it is indeed a wonderful collection of photos. Thanks for putting all of that together.

Regarding those Cantor Fitzgerald panoramic pictures: I'm about 95% certain that the second photo is a picture of the equities trading floor on the southwest corner of the 104th floor. It's clearly the SW corner because you can see the South Tower in the windows. There are certain things in the photo that make me think it's the 104th floor equities area.

If that picture is indeed from the 104th floor then it's a picture of the area where the very intense fire was burning on 9/11 after the South Tower collapse. It's easy to see why that fire was intense when you look at that panoramic. There are a ton of chairs, computers, desks, etc that would be very combustible.

I've looked through a lot of your folder and it is indeed a wonderful collection of photos. Thanks for putting all of that together.

Regarding those Cantor Fitzgerald panoramic pictures: I'm about 95% certain that the second photo is a picture of the equities trading floor on the southwest corner of the 104th floor. It's clearly the SW corner because you can see the South Tower in the windows. There are certain things in the photo that make me think it's the 104th floor equities area.

If that picture is indeed from the 104th floor then it's a picture of the area where the very intense fire was burning on 9/11 after the South Tower collapse. It's easy to see why that fire was intense when you look at that panoramic. There are a ton of chairs, computers, desks, etc that would be very combustible.

CF was upstairs from us, and they shared some infrastructure with Marsh McLennan. (mostly data/telephone cabling that ran through vertical shafts in the core of the tower)

Having been in Cantor's offices prior to 9/11, I can confirm that the images in the panorama are indeed the Equities Trading Floor on the 104th floor. I've seen this pano before, truly eerie.

CF was upstairs from us, and they shared some infrastructure with Marsh McLennan. (mostly data/telephone cabling that ran through vertical shafts in the core of the tower)

Having been in Cantor's offices prior to 9/11, I can confirm that the images in the panorama are indeed the Equities Trading Floor on the 104th floor. I've seen this pano before, truly eerie.



Thanks for confirming that. And also, thanks for sharing your personal knowledge of the buildings which is probably unparalleled on this forum. I really appreciate the insight you've been giving recently.

Did you ever walk around Cantor's lavish lobby area with the Rodin sculptures that appear in photo 6? Would that 6th pic with the Rodin sculpture have been taken on the 105th floor near the executive offices?

I've always read that Cantor had some of swankest offices in the WTC. I have the book "On Top of the World" which details how the company came back after 9/11. The book has several pictures of their WTC offices which looked pretty snazzy.

Another company that had beautiful looking offices was Keefe Bruyette Woods on the 88th/89th floor of 2 WTC. Their offices had recently been completely renovated before 9/11.

Thanks for confirming that. And also, thanks for sharing your personal knowledge of the buildings which is probably unparalleled on this forum. I really appreciate the insight you've been giving recently.

Did you ever walk around Cantor's lavish lobby area with the Rodin sculptures that appear in photo 6? Would that 6th pic with the Rodin sculpture have been taken on the 105th floor near the executive offices?

I've always read that Cantor had some of swankest offices in the WTC. I have the book "On Top of the World" which details how the company came back after 9/11. The book has several pictures of their WTC offices which looked pretty snazzy.

Another company that had beautiful looking offices was Keefe Bruyette Woods on the 88th/89th floor of 2 WTC. Their offices had recently been completely renovated before 9/11.

Yes, the lobby shown in the panos is outside the exec area on the 105th floor. I want to say it was on the north side of the tower, but it's been ten years since I was in those buildings so I don't really remember.

Cantor's offices were truly upscale compared to MMC. They had better computers, better printers, better coffee, free donuts, nicer furniture, and dry-cleaning service. Think of it this way, if Cantor's offices were like being on the Titanic, then MMCs offices were like being on an aircraft carrier; dull, drab, and spartan. Then again, it was just an office so most people didn't really care.

As you can tell from the pano, Cantor adopted an open-office plan for their WTC offices (at least on the trading floors) so their offices felt more lively and energetic. Marsh was mostly a bullpen full of cubicles and walled-off offices, so you didn't get to know the people that worked next to you too well. But I suppose that's true in any office full of cubicles.

I never did get to see Keefe's offices in the South Tower, although I (and several other MMC IT personnel) did meet with several members of the Aon Corporation on the 105th floor of the South Tower in August 2000. We did business with Aon and were trying to get them to allow us access to their servers so we could set up transaction processing so their systems could interface with our proprietary (crap) software. Their offices were well appointed too.

Here are some photos from someone who apparently worked for Aon in the South Tower on the 101st floor.

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/welcome.html

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/P4240012.JPG

According to the caption, the man facing the camera survived, while the man with his back towards the camera did not.

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/P4240020.JPG

This man was not at work that day.

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/P4240018.jpg

Anytime I felt stressed at work, or pissed off, or just having a shitty day in general, I did this; walked up to a window and peered down. And remembered that I had it pretty damn good. If you can recall the dot com boom, well in mid/late 2000 it had stagnated and several of my friends had lost their jobs as web/software developers. Despite the fact that I hated my job (well, sometimes.), I was 23 years old, working for one of the biggest companies in New York, had my own place in Park Slope (before the hipsters moved in and ruined it), an attractive girlfriend (now my wife), I really had it better off than most people and had no reason to complain.

And it was all ripped away from me a year later.

One more. I don't remember where I got this picture from, but it's been my wallpaper as long as I can remember. This was taken in November 2000.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2dlp0fd.jpg

N/M disregard

On this day, 41 years ago, December 23, 1970, the North Tower is topped out at 1,368 feet, making it the tallest building in the world.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2l92m1j.jpg

Beautiful image....I am new to this thread and have just skimmed through these pages of images and discussion. It is really incredible to see the work that went in to this online memorialization of the WTC

Now, how are you guys feeling about what is to come?
http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2008_03_wtc1.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/images_WMS/dbox_WTC_Southwest_med.jpg

more on the museum
http://batteryparkcity.com/news/location-of-unidentified-remains-of-911-victims-in-museum-raises-families-ire/

Meh. I wish they'd built it above ground. That's all I'm going to say about that.

By the way, that second rendering is outdated. I'm so glad they didn't build the Libeskind master plan with shorter towers and the 60-story-tower-masquerading-as-a-supertall "Freedom" Tower, would have been a blight on the skyline. At least the current plan restores the skyline in a form resembling the Twin Towers (see below):

This is one of STR's renderings, thanks STR in advance.

http://i42.tinypic.com/kos9y.jpg

Yes, the lobby shown in the panos is outside the exec area on the 105th floor. I want to say it was on the north side of the tower, but it's been ten years since I was in those buildings so I don't really remember.

Cantor's offices were truly upscale compared to MMC. They had better computers, better printers, better coffee, free donuts, nicer furniture, and dry-cleaning service. Think of it this way, if Cantor's offices were like being on the Titanic, then MMCs offices were like being on an aircraft carrier; dull, drab, and spartan. Then again, it was just an office so most people didn't really care.

As you can tell from the pano, Cantor adopted an open-office plan for their WTC offices (at least on the trading floors) so their offices felt more lively and energetic. Marsh was mostly a bullpen full of cubicles and walled-off offices, so you didn't get to know the people that worked next to you too well. But I suppose that's true in any office full of cubicles.

I never did get to see Keefe's offices in the South Tower, although I (and several other MMC IT personnel) did meet with several members of the Aon Corporation on the 105th floor of the South Tower in August 2000. We did business with Aon and were trying to get them to allow us access to their servers so we could set up transaction processing so their systems could interface with our proprietary (crap) software. Their offices were well appointed too.

Here are some photos from someone who apparently worked for Aon in the South Tower on the 101st floor.

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/welcome.html

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/P4240012.JPG

According to the caption, the man facing the camera survived, while the man with his back towards the camera did not.

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/P4240020.JPG

This man was not at work that day.

http://davidbardes.com/wtc/P4240018.jpg

Anytime I felt stressed at work, or pissed off, or just having a shitty day in general, I did this; walked up to a window and peered down. And remembered that I had it pretty damn good. If you can recall the dot com boom, well in mid/late 2000 it had stagnated and several of my friends had lost their jobs as web/software developers. Despite the fact that I hated my job (well, sometimes.), I was 23 years old, working for one of the biggest companies in New York, had my own place in Park Slope (before the hipsters moved in and ruined it), an attractive girlfriend (now my wife), I really had it better off than most people and had no reason to complain.

And it was all ripped away from me a year later.


Thanks for the interesting insights as to the differences in the offices.

I think you're right about that lavish Cantor lobby being on the north side of 105. Howard Lutnick, the CEO of Cantor who survives, mentions in his book that his 105th floor office viewed north towards Manhattan and the Empire State Building. So the lobby being on the north side would make sense.

Did Cantor have the Rodin sculptures all over the 5 floors or were they confined to that area outside the executive offices?

Also, sometimes I hear that Cantor occupied 101-105 and other times I hear it as 101, and 103-105. Did they occupy any of the 102nd floor? Or was that just Alliance Consulting?

Also, did you ever go up to Windows on the World much?

Thanks for the interesting insights as to the differences in the offices.

I think you're right about that lavish Cantor lobby being on the north side of 105. Howard Lutnick, the CEO of Cantor who survives, mentions in his book that his 105th floor office viewed north towards Manhattan and the Empire State Building. So the lobby being on the north side would make sense.

Did Cantor have the Rodin sculptures all over the 5 floors or were they confined to that area outside the executive offices?

Also, sometimes I hear that Cantor occupied 101-105 and other times I hear it as 101, and 103-105. Did they occupy any of the 102nd floor? Or was that just Alliance Consulting?

Also, did you ever go up to Windows on the World much?

As far as I remember, the sculptures were only on the 105th floor. Cantor's other office floors were generally bereft of special appointments, and rather spartan compared to the executive area.

I can confirm that Cantor (and their associated companies, including eSpeed, Cantor Gaming, etc.) occupied floors 101-105. However, they did share floors 101 and 102 with other companies. Cantor took up approximately 40% of the 101st floor, and that floor was shared with Kidder and Peabody and a small non-profit. On the 102nd floor, Cantor occupied half of the floor, and that was shared with a Japanese bank (name escapes me at the moment), and Alliance Consulting.

I didn't go up to Windows all that much, but occasionally myself and the rest of the Marsh IT department would occasionally go up to Greatest Bar in the World for happy hour. I wasn't a huge fan of the place because it was so damn expensive, and quite honestly, I was always fine with drinking at (insert random hole-in-the-wall-bar name).

Actually, on September 7, 2001, the last day I was ever at the WTC (the day before I got on a plane to fly to San Diego to attend my dad's Navy retirement ceremony, and hence why I survived the attacks), we had dinner and drinks at Windows. And that was the last time I ever saw any of my colleagues. All but one was killed in the attack, and I suspect it was when the plane struck because their desks were on the 96th floor on the North face of the building, right where the plane impacted. Had I been there that day, at my desk on the Northwest corner of the 99th floor, well, the wing sliced through that floor, but I don't really want to speculate.

Meh. I wish they'd built it above ground. That's all I'm going to say about that.

By the way, that second rendering is outdated. I'm so glad they didn't build the Libeskind master plan with shorter towers and the 60-story-tower-masquerading-as-a-supertall "Freedom" Tower, would have been a blight on the skyline. At least the current plan restores the skyline in a form resembling the Twin Towers (see below):

This is one of STR's renderings, thanks STR in advance.

http://i42.tinypic.com/kos9y.jpg


I think 8 Spruce Street is superior to anything being built at Ground Zero.

As far as I remember, the sculptures were only on the 105th floor. Cantor's other office floors were generally bereft of special appointments, and rather spartan compared to the executive area.

I can confirm that Cantor (and their associated companies, including eSpeed, Cantor Gaming, etc.) occupied floors 101-105. However, they did share floors 101 and 102 with other companies. Cantor took up approximately 40% of the 101st floor, and that floor was shared with Kidder and Peabody and a small non-profit. On the 102nd floor, Cantor occupied half of the floor, and that was shared with a Japanese bank (name escapes me at the moment), and Alliance Consulting.

I didn't go up to Windows all that much, but occasionally myself and the rest of the Marsh IT department would occasionally go up to Greatest Bar in the World for happy hour. I wasn't a huge fan of the place because it was so damn expensive, and quite honestly, I was always fine with drinking at (insert random hole-in-the-wall-bar name).

Actually, on September 7, 2001, the last day I was ever at the WTC (the day before I got on a plane to fly to San Diego to attend my dad's Navy retirement ceremony, and hence why I survived the attacks), we had dinner and drinks at Windows. And that was the last time I ever saw any of my colleagues. All but one was killed in the attack, and I suspect it was when the plane struck because their desks were on the 96th floor on the North face of the building, right where the plane impacted. Had I been there that day, at my desk on the Northwest corner of the 99th floor, well, the wing sliced through that floor, but I don't really want to speculate.


Yeah, I'm sure the place was insanely expensive. I bet it was neat to see the wide windows at WOW after working in offices with the narrow standard 18 inch windows. I've read that a ton of Cantor employees would go up to Windows after work given that they were just below it, so I was wondering if that was a habit amongst MMC employees as well.

MMC operated a small chunk of 93 on the south side, correct? The rest of that floor was occupied by Fred Alger, who had extremely lavish offices decorated with marble. I found an article from 1999 interior design magazine about the renovation of Alger's offices that includes pictures and they were indeed very impressive looking. I'll see if I can find it.

I think 8 Spruce Street is superior to anything being built at Ground Zero.

Me too, and I'll always wish they'd rebuilt the Twins, albeit a bit more modernized.

Like so:

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/images/wtc_hudson.png

But I can live with what's being built, even if it's not the best use for the site.

Yeah, I'm sure the place was insanely expensive. I bet it was neat to see the wide windows at WOW after working in offices with the narrow standard 18 inch windows. I've read that a ton of Cantor employees would go up to Windows after work given that they were just below it, so I was wondering if that was a habit amongst MMC employees as well.

MMC operated a small chunk of 93 on the south side, correct? The rest of that floor was occupied by Fred Alger, who had extremely lavish offices decorated with marble. I found an article from 1999 interior design magazine about the renovation of Alger's offices that includes pictures and they were indeed very impressive looking. I'll see if I can find it.

93rd floor was support spaces (mailroom), and some office functions. I never did go into Alger's offices, but they were on that floor as well.

Me too, and I'll always wish they'd rebuilt the Twins, albeit a bit more modernized.

Like so:

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/images/wtc_hudson.png

But I can live with what's being built, even if it's not the best use for the site.


I agree that rebuilding modernized twins like those in that picture would have been the best option. The only significant change I would have made is getting rid of the absurdly narrow windows in favor of regular sized ones. As long as they were at least as tall, had an antenna on 1 and an observation deck on 2, then they would have been fine in my book.

Scores were killed at the Pentagon yet that building was immediately patched up and life went on there. I think rebuilding the twins is something that most New Yorkers and Americans would have supported as the scars of 9/11 have healed over the years.

Clearly the powers in charge didn't think that rebuilding the twins was a good idea, but they should have at least made a bold architectural statement there. New York and the US is the birthplace of the skyscraper, and what better place than that sacred ground to build a fabulous skyscraper that would impress the whole world? We could have built something that was jaw-dropping there if we put the time into it. It could have been an iconic for the 21st century skyscraper. Instead, we are building something that is "decent", but it's not spectacular by any measure. You can find similar looking buildings in Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.

The Twin Towers, whether one found them dull or not, were unique and unlike anything else in the world. For that reason, they were a symbol. What we have here will not be an architectural symbol by any means. It is an average building of which something similar could be found in many cities across the US.

We could have built a skyscraper for the ages and that opportunity was squandered.

I agree that rebuilding modernized twins like those in that picture would have been the best option. The only significant change I would have made is getting rid of the absurdly narrow windows in favor of regular sized ones. As long as they were at least as tall, had an antenna on 1 and an observation deck on 2, then they would have been fine in my book.

Scores were killed at the Pentagon yet that building was immediately patched up and life went on there. I think rebuilding the twins is something that most New Yorkers and Americans would have supported as the scars of 9/11 have healed over the years.

Clearly the powers in charge didn't think that rebuilding the twins was a good idea, but they should have at least made a bold architectural statement there. New York and the US is the birthplace of the skyscraper, and what better place than that sacred ground to build a fabulous skyscraper that would impress the whole world? We could have built something that was jaw-dropping there if we put the time into it. It could have been an iconic for the 21st century skyscraper. Instead, we are building something that is "decent", but it's not spectacular by any measure. You can find similar looking buildings in Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.

The Twin Towers, whether one found them dull or not, were unique and unlike anything else in the world. For that reason, they were a symbol. What we have here will not be an architectural symbol by any means. It is an average building of which something similar could be found in many cities across the US.

We could have built a skyscraper for the ages and that opportunity was squandered.

The narrow windows were probably one of my biggest gripes with the buildings, especially working on the 99th floor where you had to use multiple windows to take in the view. After a while though, the novelty of working that high up wore off, but it was still awesome to take guests up to the office and show them the view, and see parts of the buildings that most people never got to see.

I went to NYC a couple of months ago (first time since I left in 2002), and every time I looked towards Lower Manhattan, the first thing my eyes always did was look for the Twin Towers. Like my brain was still programmed to look for those buildings, because not only was it where I made my livelihood, it was a visual marker if I ever got lost and couldn't find my way, especially back in 1996 when I first moved to the city. While I think the new One World Trade Center will in some ways return that "marker" to the skyline (mainly because it looks somewhat like the North Tower), nothing will ever compare to two giant towers gracing the prow of Manhattan.

Granted, they weren't very attractive buildings aesthetically, but they were designed and built in an era where functionality and technological prowess were more important than aesthetics. And as far as I'm concerned, they didn't need to be pretty; their size and stature made them iconic, and they can NEVER be replaced.

Like my signature says, 110 stories, 1,368 feet, and one step closer to heaven. It was the closest to heaven I've ever been.

Rodin Sculptures in the Cantor Fitzgerald offices:

You can see the narrow WTC windows in the background of the first one.

http://72.32.219.170/Cantor/sites/default/files/u3/img_rodin3b.jpg

This is the firm's founder. B. Gerald Cantor.

http://72.32.219.170/Cantor/sites/default/files/u3/img_meet3.jpg

http://www.cantorfoundation.org/content/view-all-images

thought I'd share this with everyone

I just met this girl named Michelle the other night..
after a few hours of conversation had passed by, she commented on my collection of ny prints/posters and paintings..
It turns out she was working in the City, & living in Jersey thru 9-11.. we stayed up all night long and swapped stories
about how it had affected us, and where we stood today..
Friends.. let me tell you.. I thought I knew what happened that day...
Some of the things she shared with me will haunt me for the rest of my life..
The images have been burned into my brain w/out even seeing them to begin with..

Having said that.. on to the reason I'm posting..

...at one point during the night she pulled an image from her purse and handed it to me..
upon seeing the date, chills shot thru my body like shit thru a goose...

http://img181.echo.cx/img181/9575/wtc910013ic.jpg-http://img181.echo.cx/img181/4995/wtc91001b6xf.jpg
It's been in her purse since its developing...
there was something about seeing this particular moment in time that still,
days later fucks with my head and makes me wanna heave...
If only I could warn them type feelings begin to take over..
much like they do when watching TAXI or old SNL re-runs...
...seeing the world thru innocent eyes, oblivious to what lies ahead...


This is a very strange photograph. Measuring the tower on the left against the one on the right and
we see that the tower on the right is HALF as deep as the one on the left.

It's called perspective.

It's called perspective.

I am an artist and a photographer and its my professional opinion - something else is going on. The two buildings are very close to one another and are virtually in the same plane.

Compare

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NXmejeo7IoY/TxYCHlMXJTI/AAAAAAAABFQ/r3Xma4AYitI/s1600/buildings_tif.jpg http://www.cityofjoliet.com/images/newwtc.jpg

I am an artist and a photographer and its my professional opinion - something else is going on. The two buildings are very close to one another and are virtually in the same plane.

Compare

http://www.cityofjoliet.com/images/newwtc.jpg http://barneypiercy.co.uk/images/gallery_hires/images/buildings_tif.jpg

The image on the right is not oriented correctly. It's backwards (or mirrored, whatever you want to call it). From the angle this shot was taken (from the Hudson), the North Tower would appear on the left, not the right, and it's definitely the North Tower because you can see the antenna.

Also, the buildings were similar, but not identical. The North Tower had its core oriented east-to-west, while the South Tower's core was oriented North-to-South. Additionally, one of the mechanical floors in the North Tower(I believe 108 or 109) was made a "tall" floor, thus making it six feet taller than 2WTC.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/World_Trade_Center_9-11_Attacks_Illustration_with_Bird%27s-eye_Impact_Locations.jpg

The image on the right is not oriented correctly. It's backwards (or mirrored, whatever you want to call it).

OK - I flipped it horiz., but the point remains the same I think.......
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NXmejeo7IoY/TxYCHlMXJTI/AAAAAAAABFQ/r3Xma4AYitI/s320/buildings_tif.jpg

OK - I flipped it horiz., but the point remains the same I think.......
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NXmejeo7IoY/TxYCHlMXJTI/AAAAAAAABFQ/r3Xma4AYitI/s320/buildings_tif.jpg

I'm still not seeing it. What exactly is off?

The comment about perspective in the various photos is quite simple. Any photo can be cropped and enlarged so from a distance the two towers would present as near identical. The faces and one side would be very similar. As you get closer in real life if lined up nearer the south wall of tower 2 that face would be hardly visible yet the south wall of tower one would be seen as a broader facade. Many photos exist of the WTC and many are taken from New Jersey or where ever but the perspective situation remains the same as you get closer......if you understand any of this ?

PS Chapelo is correct about the core orientation of each tower but this would have no effect visually to the exterior which had 4 equal sides on each tower.....and the height difference is marginal to the human eye at that scale.

I'm still not seeing it. What exactly is off?

Core oriemtation is not an issue here although I have made use of those same images to prove other points in the past.

The issue I am addressing is the difference in size and proper visual orientation of the two buildings. The building on the right looks more like the United Nations building than it does one of the twin towers. Its flat and very thin in comparison.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OLVa22o5hBY/TxbLcqFWZoI/AAAAAAAABFY/LjLC16tzhMk/s320/wtc910013ic.jpg
The building on the right is only 1/2 as deep as the on on the left. It is a very strange image. I have been looking at images of these Towers for ten years and this is the first time I have seen this anamoly. it does not seem to me an issue of perspective though.

double post sorry

Also, the buildings were similar, but not identical. The North Tower had its core oriented east-to-west, while the South Tower's core was oriented North-to-South. Additionally, one of the mechanical floors in the North Tower(I believe 108 or 109) was made a "tall" floor, thus making it six feet taller than 2WTC.




I thought the North Tower was taller because it had two floors with ceilings that were raised three feet for Port Authority Cafeterias.

I thought the North Tower was taller because it had two floors with ceilings that were raised three feet for Port Authority Cafeterias.

Not sure about that, it's possible. I always heard from building engineers that it was a mechanical floor that was taller.

Here's a picture of the Port Authority Cafeteria and Lounge, circa 1975. This was on the 43rd floor of the North Tower. The ceilings here were slightly higher than on the office floors, so this may illustrate your point.

http://www.v-like-vintage.net/uploads/images/Cropped700/00094438.jpg

For comparison purposes, here's a shot showing the low office ceilings.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2vwwmqh.jpg

In addition to the narrow windows, this was my other big gripe with the buildings. When I started working at Marsh, I had a cubicle towards the center of the building, right next to the core, and the low ceilings and lack of natural light made it really claustrophobic. I couldn't take it anymore, so I waited and waited until an empty cube by a window opened up. I got lucky and was able to get a cubicle in the NW corner of the 99th floor, overlooking the Hudson, WFC, 7WTC, and the West Side Highway. Now that was a view! Later taken from me when they moved everyone during a renovation.

The rest of the set can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/3kqworf

Core oriemtation is not an issue here although I have made use of those same images to prove other points in the past.

The issue I am addressing is the difference in size and proper visual orientation of the two buildings. The building on the right looks more like the United Nations building than it does one of the twin towers. Its flat and very thin in comparison.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OLVa22o5hBY/TxbLcqFWZoI/AAAAAAAABFY/LjLC16tzhMk/s320/wtc910013ic.jpg
The building on the right is only 1/2 as deep as the on on the left. It is a very strange image. I have been looking at images of these Towers for ten years and this is the first time I have seen this anamoly. it does not seem to me an issue of perspective though.

Okay, I can see it now. I'm not sure what that is. I want to say light, because the Twins had a way of playing with light that hit them, but I honestly can't say for certain.

I very much appreciate this Forum for all of the pictorial information it offers. One thing I have noticed in my research efforts here is that of all the many thousands of pictures of the interior of the Twin Towers posted in this Forum why is there not one photograph that shows the existence of a sprinkler system?

Its important to me because I am researching the subject of the alleged installation of more adequate fire protection systems throughout the buildings following the 1993 bombing incident..........Can anyone here assist me in my efforts?...........Thank you very much......VF

PS - they look like this and should be evident if they have been properly on the ceiling of an average office.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Sprinkler.jpg/220px-Sprinkler.jpg
A glass bulb type sprinkler head will spray water into the room if sufficient heat reaches the bulb and causes it to shatter. Sprinkler heads operate individually. Note the red liquid in the glass bulb.

I have a video that is over an hour long documenting the renovation of the south tower's 85th floor in the summer of 2001. They have the drop ceilings taken off, and you can see the piping and the sprinkler heads. It looks like some of the sprinkler heads themselves had white caps on them. I think they were all recessed. Chapelo might know for sure.

I have a video that is over an hour long documenting the renovation of the south tower's 85th floor in the summer of 2001. They have the drop ceilings taken off, and you can see the piping and the sprinkler heads. It looks like some of the sprinkler heads themselves had white caps on them. I think they were all recessed. Chapelo might know for sure.

Yes I know the series - do you mean this? If so, when the drop ceiling is in place will the sprinkler heads be in line with the ceiling tiles - just below them - or not visible at all?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hJqAAXYmWsg/TxhNFywXpuI/AAAAAAAABGA/VaGfTrKR9aI/s320/sprinkler+heads2.jpg

Yes I know the series - do you mean this? If so, when the drop ceiling is in place will the sprinkler heads be in line with the ceiling tiles - just below them - or not visible at all?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hJqAAXYmWsg/TxhNFywXpuI/AAAAAAAABGA/VaGfTrKR9aI/s320/sprinkler+heads2.jpg

Yeah, that is the video. I have over 1000 interior shots of the towers on my hard drive, and it looks like the sprinklers are even with the drop ceiling tiles. I can't tell if they are covered by white caps, or are recessed. I sent Chapelo all of my pictures, so he might know for sure since he worked there.

Yeah, that is the video. I have over 1000 interior shots of the towers on my hard drive, and it looks like the sprinklers are even with the drop ceiling tiles. I can't tell if they are covered by white caps, or are recessed. I sent Chapelo all of my pictures, so he might know for sure since he worked there.

They were covered by metal caps on the floors my company occupied, but the office underwent a massive renovation in 1999, and prior to that, they were typical "hanging from the ceiling" sprinklers.

You can see the circles in the ceiling tiles in this picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/1019.jpg

They were covered by metal caps on the floors my company occupied, but the office underwent a massive renovation in 1999, and prior to that, they were typical "hanging from the ceiling" sprinklers.

You can see the circles in the ceiling tiles in this picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/1019.jpg

OK. I thought those might be it, but I figured I'd let the expert let us know for sure. :)

OK. I thought those might be it, but I figured I'd let the expert let us know for sure. :)


Actually I posted that image on another forum w/out realizing the circles were sprinkler heads.............thank you for all the help..............VF

They were covered by metal caps on the floors my company occupied, but the office underwent a massive renovation in 1999, and prior to that, they were typical "hanging from the ceiling" sprinklers.

You can see the circles in the ceiling tiles in this picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/1019.jpg



Is that a picture of a Marsh office before the renovation?

Is that a picture of a Marsh office before the renovation?

No, this is a different company in the North Tower.

I'm working on scanning in photos of the Marsh offices, but I just got back from vacation in NYC and haven't had time to start up again.

No, this is a different company in the North Tower.

I'm working on scanning in photos of the Marsh offices, but I just got back from vacation in NYC and haven't had time to start up again.


I'm curious to see those. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Actually I posted that image on another forum w/out realizing the circles were sprinkler heads.............thank you for all the help..............VF

http://timhawkings.com/gallery.php5?category=4&album=1&page=1&photo=Trading_Floor.mov


Go to the second panoramic. You can see plenty of sprinkler heads covered by caps.

Not sure about that, it's possible. I always heard from building engineers that it was a mechanical floor that was taller.

Here's a picture of the Port Authority Cafeteria and Lounge, circa 1975. This was on the 43rd floor of the North Tower. The ceilings here were slightly higher than on the office floors, so this may illustrate your point.



Interesting. I wonder why the North Tower would have a taller mechanical floor? I don't think it would have anything to do with the antenna because the South Tower was equally equipped to support an antenna.

The ceilings in those pictures are definitely higher.

Interesting. I wonder why the North Tower would have a taller mechanical floor? I don't think it would have anything to do with the antenna because the South Tower was equally equipped to support an antenna.

The ceilings in those pictures are definitely higher.

I found this is in an ancient SSC thread:

^Either:

A)It's and outdoor addition, therefore doesn't count.
B) No one bothered to update the number.

As for the original topic, there were in fact two higher floors in the North Tower. the 43rd floor, right below the first skylobby, was 2 feet higher. It contained the Port Authority's cafeteria. The other floor was the 67th, which was 4 feet higher and the tallest floor in the building, exluding the lobby.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7977/1wtc1sp.png

I found this is in an ancient SSC thread:



Great find.

So I guess that settles it? We have your photograph of the PA cafeteria which clearly shows a higher ceiling and also have a blueprint that outlines the two higher floors.

EDIT: I found the thread you referred to. That guy harping that the South Tower should have been considered taller because of the observation deck is dead wrong. The observation deck was merely a platform and was not part of the superstructure of the building, just like the antenna was not part of the superstructure of the North Tower. If you were to include the South Tower's platform then you would have to include the North Tower's antenna, which would be ludicrous. The North Tower's roof was 6 feet higher than the South Tower and that's all that matters.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=160114

Great find.

So I guess that settles it? We have your photograph of the PA cafeteria which clearly shows a higher ceiling and also have a blueprint that outlines the two higher floors.

EDIT: I found the thread you referred to. That guy harping that the South Tower should have been considered taller because of the observation deck is dead wrong. The observation deck was merely a platform and was not part of the superstructure of the building, just like the antenna was not part of the superstructure of the North Tower. If you were to include the South Tower's platform then you would have to include the North Tower's antenna, which would be ludicrous. The North Tower's roof was 6 feet higher than the South Tower and that's all that matters.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=160114

Right, and the other thing I would add is that the observation deck atop the roof of the South Tower wasn't added until 1975, so in any case it wasn't originally part of the structure. Nor would it count towards the overall height of the building, much in the same way that the North Tower's antenna wasn't counted towards the height of the structure. Same thing with the antenna; it wasn't originally part of the building, and was added on in 1979.

If it was counted, the North Tower (including antenna) would still be two feet shorter than the Sears Tower.

Okay, I can see it now. I'm not sure what that is. I want to say light, because the Twins had a way of playing with light that hit them, but I honestly can't say for certain.

Everyone seems to be missing the obvious on this postcard image. It's clear to me that the image was for some reason retouched for use on the postcard.

Right, and the other thing I would add is that the observation deck atop the roof of the South Tower wasn't added until 1975, so in any case it wasn't originally part of the structure. Nor would it count towards the overall height of the building, much in the same way that the North Tower's antenna wasn't counted towards the height of the structure. Same thing with the antenna; it wasn't originally part of the building, and was added on in 1979.

If it was counted, the North Tower (including antenna) would still be two feet shorter than the Sears Tower.


Did you know that until 2000, the North Tower's antenna was taller than the Sears?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-02-16/news/0002160355_1_sears-tower-council-on-tall-buildings-tallest

"It will give Sears the arcane distinction of having the tallest broadcast antenna atop a building--1,729 feet, precisely 12 inches higher than New York's World Trade Center."


"It will be at least 75 feet tall and probably extend another 2 feet to reach 77 feet, Budorick said--enough to take the antenna record away from one of the World Trade Center towers in Manhattan."


------

My guess is that had the Twins not been destroyed, the North Tower antenna would have received an addition somewhere along the line to reclaim that title.

Did you know that until 2000, the North Tower's antenna was taller than the Sears?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-02-16/news/0002160355_1_sears-tower-council-on-tall-buildings-tallest

"It will give Sears the arcane distinction of having the tallest broadcast antenna atop a building--1,729 feet, precisely 12 inches higher than New York's World Trade Center."


"It will be at least 75 feet tall and probably extend another 2 feet to reach 77 feet, Budorick said--enough to take the antenna record away from one of the World Trade Center towers in Manhattan."


------

My guess is that had the Twins not been destroyed, the North Tower antenna would have received an addition somewhere along the line to reclaim that title.


It wouldn't have surprised me if they had decided to lengthen the antenna atop the North Tower. Remember that after 9/11, that antennae were added atop 4 Times Square, The Empire State Building (or rather expanded), and (later) the BofA tower to compensate for the loss of the WTC's antenna. I'd be willing to bet that there would have been an increasing need for more coverage and the North Tower would have received an addition to it's antenna.

I know that there were some renovations/additions planned for 2002-2003 for the WTC. One big item was they were going to clean the exteriors of both buildings (including the aluminum cladding), and renovate the skylobbies. The buildings definitely needed cleaning. About a week or so before 9/11, I was having lunch with a coworker in the Tobin Plaza and happened to remark to him how dirty the buildings looked. You had to be up close to see it, but you could definitely see a layer of dirt and grime had built up, and that the almuminum looked pretty dull and needed polishing.

I believe there were also plans in the works at the time of the attacks to expand the underground shopping mall, and there was also talk of a possible lobby renovation in 2004.

Everyone seems to be missing the obvious on this postcard image. It's clear to me that the image was for some reason retouched for use on the postcard.

I had to open it up in Photoshop to see it, but zoomed in at 500%, it's blatantly obvious.

And that's why I wear glasses :ohno:

It wouldn't have surprised me if they had decided to lengthen the antenna atop the North Tower. Remember that after 9/11, that antennae were added atop 4 Times Square, The Empire State Building (or rather expanded), and (later) the BofA tower to compensate for the loss of the WTC's antenna. I'd be willing to bet that there would have been an increasing need for more coverage and the North Tower would have received an addition to it's antenna.

I know that there were some renovations/additions planned for 2002-2003 for the WTC. One big item was they were going to clean the exteriors of both buildings (including the aluminum cladding), and renovate the skylobbies. The buildings definitely needed cleaning. About a week or so before 9/11, I was having lunch with a coworker in the Tobin Plaza and happened to remark to him how dirty the buildings looked. You had to be up close to see it, but you could definitely see a layer of dirt and grime had built up, and that the almuminum looked pretty dull and needed polishing.

I believe there were also plans in the works at the time of the attacks to expand the underground shopping mall, and there was also talk of a possible lobby renovation in 2004.

Great information. I just love reading your first-hand accounts of life at the buildings. Had they been able to do that cleaning project then I'm sure the buildings would have really been sparkling. I wonder how many times they did a thorough cleaning of the exterior over the course of the 30 years the buildings stood?

It's interesting to ponder how the complex would have changed over the last decade. I wonder what new companies would have moved in.

Marsh took over the offices of Deloitte, correct? IIRC, Deloitte occupied those floors before the bombing but decided to not move back once the complex re-opened and instead moved into the WFC. You mentioned earlier that Marsh renovated their offices in 1999. Was that so they could scrap the old Deloitte offices and make them more of their own?

Also, I know you mentioned that Cantor had much better offices than MMC. Would you say that Cantor had the nicest offices of any WTC tenant that you visited?

Great information. I just love reading your first-hand accounts of life at the buildings. Had they been able to do that cleaning project then I'm sure the buildings would have really been sparkling. I wonder how many times they did a thorough cleaning of the exterior over the course of the 30 years the buildings stood?

It's interesting to ponder how the complex would have changed over the last decade. I wonder what new companies would have moved in.

Marsh took over the offices of Deloitte, correct? IIRC, Deloitte occupied those floors before the bombing but decided to not move back once the complex re-opened and instead moved into the WFC. You mentioned earlier that Marsh renovated their offices in 1999. Was that so they could scrap the old Deloitte offices and make them more of their own?

Also, I know you mentioned that Cantor had much better offices than MMC. Would you say that Cantor had the nicest offices of any WTC tenant that you visited?

It's kinda funny in retrospect, when I worked there, I really didn't think anything special of the place, mainly because I disliked working for Marsh and hated coming to work every day (a la Office Space). I'd bring out-of-town guests there to see the office, and they'd be completely starstruck at the buildings, whereas my whole thing was "Meh, it's just two giant office towers that happen to be iconic." I didn't really start learning about the buildings in great detail until just recently, poring over what documentation and stuff I have left from my time in those buildings.

Yes, Marsh did take over Deloitte's lease on the upper floors of the North Tower. My understanding is that the '93 bombing was part of their rationale for leaving, but the other part was that they wanted even more space that just wasn't available in the Tower (and by space, I mean several contiguous floors). Apparently they were able to get what they wanted in the WFC. But last time I checked, the WFC was not column-free office space, unlike the WTC.

As for the office renovation, when Marsh took over the space, they didn't really upgrade it; just started setting up furniture and moved in. Deloitte had been there since the early-mid 80s, and so the spaces were severely outdated and inadequate by modern standards. The 1999 renovation was basically a modernization of the space, including new electrical wiring, running CAT5 cabling through cable tunnels anchored to the ceiling trusses, new fireproofing, carpet, paint, furniture, etc. As part of the upgrades, we expanded to half of the 93rd floor (the other half was occupied by Fred Alger Management). That floor was completely gutted, even the concrete floor was removed. They reinforced the entire floorplate, poured a new concrete slab, and that became our data-center and support spaces. They had to reinforce the floor because of the sheer weight of our server equipment (computers, racks, etc.) and backup batteries. Additionally, they cut holes in the floorplates from 94-100 so they could build stairs between our floors.

Out of all the other offices I ever saw in the WTC, Cantor had probably the most opulent. I felt like an unwashed Hun every time I walked in there, really the epitome of class. This was a company that had money, and power and didn't mind flaunting it.

Would have been real nice to see two gleaming towers at the prow of Manhattan after the cleaning, I couldn't think of a better way to mark the 30th anniversary of the buildings, if they were still standing.

I do know that Silverstein got a 99 year lease for the WTC building in July 2001, and they were in the possess of switching the people who control the complex from the Port Authority to Silverstein properties.

At the same time the Mall was leased to the Westfield Group and they were going to re-name it Westfield Shoppingtown World Trade Center and completely renovate and expand the mall.

At the same time a McDonald's was about to open up at the Vesey Street entrance of the Mall. After 9-11 there was a sign after you open the doors that said "McDonald's, Coming soon to the WTC" I saw from a 9-11 book I have.

At the same time if you go to the PA press site for 2001, they were about to renovate the PATH station and complete it by 2003.

In the pictures I see of the wtc in 2001 there's seems to be construction going on in the West Street plaza of 6 WTC, like a blue scaffolding roof to protect the street with a red latter on top of it to climb to the WTC 6 plaza, maybe to Renovate it?

In July 2001 the Port Authority leased the WTC to Silverstein Poropertes for 99 years and were in the process of transferring control to them.

The WTC Mall was leased to The Westfield Group and they were going to rename it Westfield Shoppingtown World Trade Center and add 200,000 more square feet to the mall and do a complete renovation of it too.

A McDonald's was also about to open at the Vesey Street entrance as I saw in a ground zero book that said "coming soon to the WTC"

They were also going to renovate the PATH station and complete it by 2003 as I saw in the PA website archives for 2001.

Also in 2001 the West Street side of the WTC 6 plaza had a blue scaffolding to protect the street to renovate the plaza I think, on 9-11 a red ladder was on it, it survived 9-11 as seen here.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/9-11/Post%209-11/wtcpics08071.jpg

Interesting. They had that renovation of the Tobin Plaza from 1998-99, but even after the renovations, it still seemed dated and wasn't anything particularly spectacular. I never did visit other parts of the complex, save for the mall, the Borders bookstore in 5WTC and the gym on the 22nd floor of the Vista Marriott (3WTC).

I don't remember the scaffolding on that side though; I always came into the complex through the PATH station, so I never really saw that side of the complex. Wouldn't surprise me if they were renovating it though, that side of the complex always seemed "dead".

Heres a picture from a youtube video. This is half a minute before the second plane strike.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/9-11/WTC.jpg

You could see a red cone and lots of wood with scaffolding on the very left side of the WTC 6 "plaza".

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/9-11/WTC2-2.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2746/4083897473_4cfd1f4ffd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wavz13/4083897473/)
Pop & my sister on the 58th floor World Trade Center. 1974. New York (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wavz13/4083897473/) by wavz13 (http://www.flickr.com/people/wavz13/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5241/5204538501_31b1f98fbd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/that_chrysler_guy/5204538501/)
1977 lincoln Versailles World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/that_chrysler_guy/5204538501/) by That Hartford Guy (http://www.flickr.com/people/that_chrysler_guy/), on Flickr

Someone goofed around the the colors on the first one. And I thought I had saved that second one already! Another for the collection.

A few months ago I found a set of images from the Wayback Machine for Cantor from 1996.

I believe it's from the 104th floor.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/govroom.jpg?t=1322368747
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/brokers.jpg?t=1322368731
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/itd.jpg?t=1322368784

A few months ago I found a set of images from the Wayback Machine for Cantor from 1996.

I believe it's from the 104th floor.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/govroom.jpg?t=1322368747
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/brokers.jpg?t=1322368731
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/itd.jpg?t=1322368784

Nice find! The first one is from the 103rd floor fixed income trading desk. The other two are from the 104th floor equities trading desk. This is where the giant fire on the SW corner of the tower was visible shortly before the tower collapsed.

Which side of the building was the 103rd floor fixed income trading desk at?

If the second Image is the west corner of the 104th floor, then a little changed between 1996 and 2001.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/104thfloor9.jpg

from this site

http://timhawkings.com/gallery.php5?category=4&album=1&page=1&photo=Trading_Floor.mov

A few months ago I found a set of images from the Wayback Machine for Cantor from 1996.

I believe it's from the 104th floor.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/govroom.jpg?t=1322368747
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/brokers.jpg?t=1322368731
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/itd.jpg?t=1322368784


Wow, great find! I haven't seen those before. How did you find those? Do you have any others?

Nice find! The first one is from the 103rd floor fixed income trading desk. The other two are from the 104th floor equities trading desk. This is where the giant fire on the SW corner of the tower was visible shortly before the tower collapsed.

Once again, thanks for your input. You have been an invaluable resource to this site.

That 104th floor fire was odd. My theory on it is this: Just a couple minutes after the plane hit, windows were broken by occupants in this area. They were some of the first (if not the first) windows broken by occupants in the building. The new source of oxygen from those windows probably drew the fire up through the core of the building toward those windows, which wasn't visible from the outside. When the South Tower collapsed, it shot a pressure pulse through the building and thus the flames rapidly expanded through the interior and shot out the exterior. As the interior pictures show, there was certainly of abundance of combustible materials on that floor which would have burned rapidly. Morbid topic, I know, but I've always been a bit perplexed by that fire.

The NIST report mentions the 104th floor fire but it doesn't offer a theory for it. I wish they would have spent some more time on it given that it was such an intense fire.

Once again, thanks for your input. You have been an invaluable resource to this site.

That 104th floor fire was odd. My theory on it is this: Just a couple minutes after the plane hit, windows were broken by occupants in this area. They were some of the first (if not the first) windows broken by occupants in the building. The new source of oxygen from those windows probably drew the fire up through the core of the building toward those windows, which wasn't visible from the outside. When the South Tower collapsed, it shot a pressure pulse through the building and thus the flames rapidly expanded through the interior and shot out the exterior. As the interior pictures show, there was certainly of abundance of combustible materials on that floor which would have burned rapidly. Morbid topic, I know, but I've always been a bit perplexed by that fire.

The NIST report mentions the 104th floor fire but it doesn't offer a theory for it. I wish they would have spent some more time on it given that it was such an intense fire.

I would be willing to bet that the fire spread upward through the cable shafts in the core of the tower. The same thing happened during the 1975 WTC fire, where insulation for telephone cables ignited, and thus caused the fire that initially started on the 9th floor to spread to the 19th floor. But there was no major loading event (ie: jet impact) during the 1975 fire.

The interesting thing is, aside from the fire on the 104th floor, there aren't many other large fires visible above the jet impacts. I'd have to look at videos of the North Tower fires again, but there appears to be a giant fire from 94-99 (impact floors), no fire but tons of smoke on floors 100-103, then the giant fire on the SW corner of the 104th floor. And it's not like there weren't combustibles on these floors; there were literally thousands of computers on these floors (two per person), not to mention all of the other office contents.

We will never know for certain what happened in that tower above the impact; it's definitely an interesting topic to speculate on.

Just a couple minutes after the plane hit, windows were broken by occupants in this area. They were some of the first (if not the first) windows broken by occupants in the building.

That is correct, the earliest time I've seen these window's broken was at 8:51 according to the time stamp on the CNBC coverage.

Chapelo

From looking at all the new NIST videos released the past 2 years the only fires visible were from the impact floors and 104th. No doubt that there had to be fires in the core area of all the floors above, how else to account for the torrents of black smoke belching out of the broken windows above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHI1E265n2I&feature=player_detailpage#t=407s

More Cantor office photos. The pictures start at about 6:45. The dates on them are 1995.

That is correct, the earliest time I've seen these window's broken was at 8:51 according to the time stamp on the CNBC coverage.

Chapelo

From looking at all the new NIST videos released the past 2 years the only fires visible were from the impact floors and 104th. No doubt that there had to be fires in the core area of all the floors above, how else to account for the torrents of black smoke belching out of the broken windows above.

Wouldn't doubt it. The vertical shafts in the core of the tower, as well as holes that may have formed in the floor slabs from the impact and/or fires would have served as a sort of chimney, channeling heat and smoke to higher floors. With the windows broken, and fresh air coming into the tower, and with plenty of combustible materials, there really wasn't anything to stop more fires from igniting.

None of this would have happened if they'd built the towers with a concrete core.

Which side of the building was the 103rd floor fixed income trading desk at?

If the second Image is the west corner of the 104th floor, then a little changed between 1996 and 2001.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/104thfloor9.jpg

from this site

http://timhawkings.com/gallery.php5?category=4&album=1&page=1&photo=Trading_Floor.mov

It's definitely the SW corner of the floor. You can see the South Tower in the windows when you rotate the panoramic.

I do know that it's that corner. But I was addressing when he said that this image was the same exact corner that there are a few changes between 1996 and 2001.

1996

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/brokers.jpg?t=1322368731

2001

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/104thfloor9.jpg

Hmm, not sure. Cantor was a big company, and they moved people around quite frequently, so it wouldn't surprise me if they reconfigured their trading floors in that five year period. Hell, even at MMC, we redid our trading floors more than once between 1997 and 2001.

I found a video from 1988 of an unknown floor of the WTC of the company "Harlow". A typical brokers floor where there's a lot of hollering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOsaYsUo_x4&list

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2011/09/01/skyline1__1314914830_9742.jpg
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/specials/sept_11_anniversary/changes_to_new_york_skyline/

I found a video from 1988 of an unknown floor of the WTC of the company "Harlow". A typical brokers floor where there's a lot of hollering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOsaYsUo_x4&list

This is Euro Brokers. Prior to 9/11, they were located on the 84th floor of 2WTC, but this video appears to be from the 31st floor of 1WTC several years before the attack.

If you look at 6:19, you can see Brian Clark, this man escaped from the South Tower after the impact. He also saved Stanley Praimnath from the 81st floor of 2WTC. God bless him.

I see a guy close up a few seconds before 6:19 that looks like him, does that mean's he's been there since 1988?

So this is the 31st floor of the North Tower? I do see an unknown building at 6:44.

I see a guy close up a few seconds before 6:19 that looks like him, does that mean's he's been there since 1988?

So this is the 31st floor of the North Tower? I do see an unknown building at 6:44.

Er, yeah, the man they focus in on is Brian Clark. According to his LinkedIn profile, he'd been with EuroBrokers since 1973. His profile can be seen here:

http://www.linkedin.com/in/clarky

Looking at the tape, it's hard to tell, but the building at 6:44 appears to be the Verizon building.

He also saved Stanley Praimnath from the 81st floor of 2WTC. God bless him.

I believe that Stanley was at the southwest corner of the 81st floor, that's how he saw the "fireball's raining down" from the North Tower, and that's how he saw the second plane too, from his perspective looking like it would hit him directly.

There were a handful of people on the west side of the 94th and 95th floors that survived the first plane crash, so it's not surprising that he survived on the 81st floor, albeit that he was trapped and would have died if it wasn't for Brian who survived on the west side of the 84th floor.

Oddly, windows break on that floor later, like there were still people trapped on that floor.

Here is the man himself!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/abov_clark-2.jpg

I might have something brand new for you guys soon. I've never seen it posted online before. I just need to get to Kinkos or someplace that can scan a large newspaper insert.

Apparently these Medieval towers in Italy had a great influence on Mr. Yamasaki in his design for the WTC.

These are located in San Gimignano, Italy.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3283/2517719963_df1ace8503_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ghelpme/2517719963/)
San Gimignano Towers... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ghelpme/2517719963/) by ghelpme (http://www.flickr.com/people/ghelpme/), on Flickr

Here is the man himself!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/abov_clark-2.jpg

I might have something brand new for you guys soon. I've never seen it posted online before. I just need to get to Kinkos or someplace that can scan a large newspaper insert.


Thanks, I look forward to it.

BTW, was your avatar photo of the twins taken on 9/11/01? I seem to recall you mentioning that and the blue sky certainly looks like the 9/11 one. Also looks to be early in the morning.

Thanks, I look forward to it.

BTW, was your avatar photo of the twins taken on 9/11/01? I seem to recall you mentioning that and the blue sky certainly looks like the 9/11 one. Also looks to be early in the morning.

I think it was. The exif data on the file says 8:22 AM.

I think it was. The exif data on the file says 8:22 AM.



So eerie to look at that photo and realize that in 25 minutes, Flight 11 would plow right into the North Tower.

1WTC 100th floor floorplan. Apparently the NIST sells these, but this is an EXACT copy of the Marsh McLennan setup, and I can confirm this because there was a conference room in the each corner of the 100th floor. And the cubicle mockup is as I remembered it.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3113/marsh100a66.jpg

Originally found here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5242295&postcount=266

STR sent me complete floor plans for Marsh McLennan. These were the Gensler created floorplans during the 1998-99 office renovations. I will post the rest of them at a later date.

Below is the 99th floor. The arrow points to my cubicle.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2jf5np.jpg

Great stuff, Chapelo! Looks like you had a great view of Manhattan.

Great stuff, Chapelo! Looks like you had a great view of Manhattan.

If I turned 180° from my computer, I had the Empire State Building in my view. Two windows over, I could see the Chrysler and Metlife Buildings. The narrow windows sucked.

I'm going to do some work tonight with the floorplans and annotate them with the respective departments. I'll also see if I can get the Cantor-Fitzgerald floorplans (Floors 101-105).

If I turned 180° from my computer, I had the Empire State Building in my view. Two windows over, I could see the Chrysler and Metlife Buildings. The narrow windows sucked.

I'm going to do some work tonight with the floorplans and annotate them with the respective departments. I'll also see if I can get the Cantor-Fitzgerald floorplans (Floors 101-105).


That would be great if you could get the Cantor ones. Thanks!

I bet it was quite a difference to go up to Windows on the World and take in the view from the wide windows they had up there. The restricted windows on the office floors were without a doubt the worst thing about the design, IMHO.

Chapelo's floorplan diagrams show the WTC's biggest failing.....no real core ! It was built strong and efficiently as office space but not with a separate solid core containing stairwells lifts and services. I have read stories where survivors could almost bash their way through walls from Lifts and stairwells......amazing. The events of 9/11 show there was little defence for entire floors to be damaged resulting in what now is history. The new WTC has improved this aspect of design yet think it strange that the Concrete core lags behind the steel frame. In most places in the world a Concrete core is slip formed and a steel frame built around it. If the result is the same guess it doesn't matter....

Chapelo's floorplan diagrams show the WTC's biggest failing.....no real core ! It was built strong and efficiently as office space but not with a separate solid core containing stairwells lifts and services. I have read stories where survivors could almost bash their way through walls from Lifts and stairwells......amazing. The events of 9/11 show there was little defence for entire floors to be damaged resulting in what now is history. The new WTC has improved this aspect of design yet think it strange that the Concrete core lags behind the steel frame. In most places in the world a Concrete core is slip formed and a steel frame built around it. If the result is the same guess it doesn't matter....

Yeah, the core of the Twins was sheathed in sheetrock. Same stuff that the walls in your house are made of. That was the biggest problem during the jet impact, and fire; it offered no real protection from projectiles or large fires. They may as well have wrapped the core in paper. There were other problems with the WTCs design, such as the flimsy connections of the floor plates to the perimeter columns, or the thin floor trusses that fell victim so easily to the fires, but that's a whole other discussion.

Quite honestly, if they had encased the core in reinforced concrete, those towers would still be standing today. And it's strange that they didn't, as last i checked, Aon Center in Chicago was built from 1970-1973 (same timeframe as the Twins), but it has a concrete core.

Here's the 99th floor with markups. If I didn't annotate it, I don't remember who was located there. It's been more than 10 years, so don't expect this to be perfect.

http://i39.tinypic.com/vcw6mh.jpg

LEGEND

A) Human Resources

B) Information Services, Including:
I - Desktop Support
II - Networking and Telecommunications
III - Systems Administration
IV: Help Desk

Note: Group B also occupied space on Floors 94-95, and 100.

C) Interoffice Stairway (Floors 94-100)

D) Corporate Finance (Accounts Payable, Tax Reporting, Cost Basis)

Note: Also occupied space on floors 94, 97-98, and 100.

E) Executive Area (for departments on this floor)

F) (dotted area) Approximate area of jet impact and initial fire

Great information, Chapelo! Thanks.

Strange, you said in a different post that your office was in the north west corner, where the letter "F" is at, with views from the west and east.

It's also sad that now I know what was in those 3 broken windows on the vary eastern north side of the east side of the 99th floor.... a conference room, with all its 3 eastern windows broken. No one is seen to jump out of that side.

Strange, you said in a different post that your office was in the north west corner, where the letter "F" is at, with views from the west and east.


Prior to the 1999 renovations, it was in the NW Corner. The entire NW corner of the 99th floor basically became Marsh's conference center, since the staff that could support the videoconferencing and phones during such meetings were located on that floor (it was also the only floor aside from 95 that had CAT-5 wiring installed). It also centralized the meeting spaces, since they were on different floors prior to the moves.

I moved around several times, never did leave the 99th floor, but I always mention my NW corner desk first because it's the one that'll forever be burned into my memory. Especially the sunsets, they were unforgettable.

Prior to the 1999 renovations, it was in the NW Corner. The entire NW corner of the 99th floor basically became Marsh's conference center, since the staff that could support the videoconferencing and phones during such meetings were located on that floor (it was also the only floor aside from 95 that had CAT-5 wiring installed). It also centralized the meeting spaces, since they were on different floors prior to the moves.

I moved around several times, never did leave the 99th floor, but I always mention my NW corner desk first because it's the one that'll forever be burned into my memory. Especially the sunsets, they were unforgettable.



Did you have any luck getting prints for other floors in the building?

Here is a treat for you guys. I found an article through a university database which I'm privy to (you won't be able to find it on google). It's a 1999 interior design article about the renovations that Fred Alger Management did to it's 93rd floor North Tower office. The majority of the 93rd floor was leased to Alger. As Chapelo has mentioned, MMC occupied a small chunk of the floor on the south side, as the blueprint in the 4th image shows. These Alger offices were very impressive looking. Too bad these pics aren't in color.

Tragically, Alger lost 35 people on 9/11.

Interior Design Magazine, September 1999.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk79/Adam81387/FA1.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk79/Adam81387/FA2.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk79/Adam81387/FA3.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk79/Adam81387/FA4.jpg

Did you have any luck getting prints for other floors in the building?

I haven't received a response yet, but it shouldn't be a problem.

http://justinsomnia.org/images/world-trade-center-sunset-reflection-steven-siegel-big.jpg
http://justinsomnia.org/

From that distance the City could not be mistaken for anywhere else......wonder if the same will be said from here on ?

From that distance the City could not be mistaken for anywhere else......wonder if the same will be said from here on ?



It's still the most recognizable skyline in the world. By far.

From that distance the City could not be mistaken for anywhere else......wonder if the same will be said from here on ?

Sadly I doubt in the same way. The designs are sadly inferior and in a way gimmicky. It would be interesting in a decade or two to ask people in NYC and around the world who were born early 2000's which era they prefered.

http://d8st7idcnjoas.cloudfront.net/galfull/CT-465.jpg

Here is a treat for you guys. I found an article through a university database which I'm privy to (you won't be able to find it on google). It's a 1999 interior design article about the renovations that Fred Alger Management did to it's 93rd floor North Tower office. The majority of the 93rd floor was leased to Alger. As Chapelo has mentioned, MMC occupied a small chunk of the floor on the south side, as the blueprint in the 4th image shows. These Alger offices were very impressive looking. Too bad these pics aren't in color.

Tragically, Alger lost 35 people on 9/11.

Interior Design Magazine, September 1999.


Wow! Neat find! I don't remember their offices too well, but I do remember the gaudy tile that covered the core-columns in the lobby area. Looked like something straight out of 1973.

For comparison purposes to that Alger floorplan, here's the 93rd floor as occupied by Marsh.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h6x274.jpg


image

Stunning. Really shows how big these towers were.

Great pic, flux. My fascination with these buildings never ends.

Great pic, flux. My fascination with these buildings never ends.

Agreed. I can't seem to be able to not like them as much as the new 1wtc. It probably has something to do with watching them go up from the Jersey side of the banks of the Hudson River while i used to sit in class on the 3rd floor of my school.......couldnt have been but maybe 2 or 3 miles away and the view was crystal clear. I guess i'm one of those that thinks they should have been re-built as they were,only perhaps 115 floors.

I guess i'm one of those that thinks they should have been re-built as they were,only perhaps 115 floors.

You're not alone. The only thing I would add to that is 120 floors.

More interior shots:

http://www.travelhome.org/

This was done in March 2001. They used floors 89-95th of the North Tower to write "E-Team". Recognize any of those offices, Chapelo? It's hard to make out much. MMC would have occupied two of these floors (94 and 95, but not 93 since Alger had the north face).

More interior shots:

http://www.travelhome.org/

This was done in March 2001. They used floors 89-95th of the North Tower to write "E-Team". Recognize any of those offices, Chapelo? It's hard to make out much. MMC would have occupied two of these floors (94 and 95, but not 93 since Alger had the north face).

I remember that. My girlfriend (now my wife) was involved in the LMCC art program that was in untenanted space on the 91st floor. The night they turned the lights on, we had dinner at a restaurant in TriBeCa, and were able to see it from afar.

http://www.travelhome.org/eteam/windows/p4.jpg

The lower-left image appears to be the 95th floor of MMC, on the trading floor. Pretty sure the lower-right is Fred Alger.

I remember that. My girlfriend (now my wife) was involved in the LMCC art program that was in untenanted space on the 91st floor. The night they turned the lights on, we had dinner at a restaurant in TriBeCa, and were able to see it from afar.

http://www.travelhome.org/eteam/windows/p4.jpg

The lower-left image appears to be the 95th floor of MMC, on the trading floor. Pretty sure the lower-right is Fred Alger.


Thanks. I definitely think you are right about the lower-right one being Alger, as it looks similar to another picture I have seen of the Alger office.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6823900801_2cd0d18e49_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevensiegel/6823900801/)
Williamsburg Bridge 9 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevensiegel/6823900801/) by stevensiegel260 (http://www.flickr.com/people/stevensiegel/), on Flickr

Have you seen these pictures of the LMCC world views?

http://www.lmcc.net/residencies/workspace/past_sessions/world_views

Have you seen these pictures of the LMCC world views?

http://www.lmcc.net/residencies/workspace/past_sessions/world_views

Yep but a lot of people haven't.

A couple of pictures of Keefe Bruyette Woods' South Tower offices.

http://dgalight.com/projects/98787KBW.html


http://dgalight.com/projects/images/98787KBW002.jpg

http://dgalight.com/projects/images/98787KBW001.jpg

I would like to post some screencaps of the Marriott Hotel (WTC3) and Windoes on The World prior to 9/11
And the hotel floor plans (ball rooms and convention center)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6335/39452490.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7786/65246017.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5051/40776915.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7769/90861847.jpg

A couple of pictures of Keefe Bruyette Woods' South Tower offices.

http://dgalight.com/projects/98787KBW.html


http://dgalight.com/projects/images/98787KBW002.jpg

http://dgalight.com/projects/images/98787KBW001.jpg

Interesting. They got really creative with the floor trusses and encased them in drywall, creating vaulted ceilings. I guess that's one way to deal with the abnormally low ceilings that the Twins were famous for.

Their offices were definitely nice, no doubt about that.

Interesting. They got really creative with the floor trusses and encased them in drywall, creating vaulted ceilings. I guess that's one way to deal with the abnormally low ceilings that the Twins were famous for.

Their offices were definitely nice, no doubt about that.


Indeed. They were virtually brand new when they were destroyed as they were completed in 2000.

Here is an article about the firm that designed their WTC offices as well as the office they moved into after 9/11. It looks like they used those vaulted ceilings in the new office too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/business/yourmoney/07sqft.html?pagewanted=all

Meh_cd's album has a couple pics of KBW offices. You can tell because the marble on the floor is identical to the marble in the pictures I posted. The columns also look the same. I don't have time to go through his album now, but when I do I'll post the pics that I'm talking about.

Of all of the WTC office pics I've seen, I would say that Cantor, KBW, and Fred Alger had the nicest looking offices. I'd probably rank Cantor first because of the Rodin sculptures.

I'm still working on getting the pics of MMCs offices scanned, but my Mac took a dump earlier this week and is with Apple awaiting a new logic board.

I'm posting this from my iPhone, but I should have something at the end of this week to share.

I'm still working on getting the pics of MMCs offices scanned, but my Mac took a dump earlier this week and is with Apple awaiting a new logic board.

I'm posting this from my iPhone, but I should have something at the end of this week to share.



Thanks for taking the time to do that. I'm very interested in seeing those.

Not mine, was sent to me (Thanks Kyle!)

http://i41.tinypic.com/117zs53.jpg

That's a great picture. That's a perfect blue sky like 9/11.

Why is Chapelo in the brig?

What does "In the brig" mean?

What does "In the brig" mean?

He can't post. Halfway to a ban basically.

That's very strange.

I posted some stuff in a thread I shouldn't have. I'll be back on Sunday.

This picture of the WTC was taken on 9/11/01 before the crashes.

http://haysvillelibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/lower-manhattan-on-morning-of-september-11-2001-david-monderer.jpg?w=470&h=217

http://haysvillelibrary.wordpress.com/2009/09/page/3/

Why is Chapelo in the brig?

I'll only say because other forumers should know about this: He was brigged over an inappropriate tag in another forum. SSC members should know that mods can see who writes tags so it's a good idea to keep them clean and on topic. ;)

Yep. I learned my lesson. Won't happen ever again.

This picture of the WTC was taken on 9/11/01 before the crashes.

http://haysvillelibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/lower-manhattan-on-morning-of-september-11-2001-david-monderer.jpg?w=470&h=217

http://haysvillelibrary.wordpress.com/2009/09/page/3/

Heartbreaking to see that. So sad.

From my collection..

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cxzqy0.jpg

Notice the antenna under construction on the North Tower, this was most likely taken in 1978/1979.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6206/6062631369_fa4887e2f2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jakerajs/6062631369/)
NYC, NY, Sunrise Between Twin Towers, World Trade Center, designed by Minoru Yamasaki, International Style II (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jakerajs/6062631369/) by Jake Rajs (http://www.flickr.com/people/jakerajs/), on Flickr

July 2001

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/WTC_Twin_Towers_Night_July_2001.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WTC_Twin_Towers_Night_July_2001.jpg

^^

Beautiful shots guys! :cheers:

http://i41.tinypic.com/24nmb9y.jpg

Photo by Joe Vaccaro, 1971. Found it on a news site years ago.

These have been linked to numerous times in this thread over the years, but I'm going to do it again since there might be newcomers who have never seen them. They are a collection of albums of Windows on the World done by a guy who worked there. What a beautiful restaurant.

The third album is the best, IMO.

http://public.fotki.com/kostic/world_trade_center/windows_on_the_world-4/

I've seen bigger images of those same pictures, but yet I can't make them bigger on the site you just showed me.

I've seen bigger images of those same pictures, but yet I can't make them bigger on the site you just showed me.


Hmm. Yeah, I can't figure out how to make them bigger.

I think he has since disabled the full resolution images. The same thing has happened with a number of fantastic pictures I've found on Flickr over the years. Either the user makes the pictures completely private or only allows the public to see the smallest version.

Fortunately for me, I have all of those Fotki album images saved and cataloged. They are in the giant pile of pictures I sent Chapelo. I have them on my photobucket, but those aren't full size either since photobucket will automatically resize large images when you upload them.

Here is a link to an example of the actual full size photos after a little bit of compression to reduce the file size.

http://i.imgur.com/XXaKU.jpg

That WOW image looks great blown up. Thanks, meh.

At least show me the photobucket ones, anything larger then the original ones.

Couple of photos my dad took during a family trip in 1984

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3328/3408966392_d13bd36b9d_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27667193@N03/3408966392/)
Lower Manhattan Skyline, 1984 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27667193@N03/3408966392/) by Chapelo (http://www.flickr.com/people/27667193@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3564/3408157447_f248561949_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27667193@N03/3408157447/)
Hazy, 1984 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27667193@N03/3408157447/) by Chapelo (http://www.flickr.com/people/27667193@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3321/3408157691_26e499e89c_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27667193@N03/3408157691/)
A Southward View, 1984 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27667193@N03/3408157691/) by Chapelo (http://www.flickr.com/people/27667193@N03/), on Flickr

These photos are from 1984!?

Wow, incredible good quality for being the 80s', if it didn't say what age it was from i would of we thought it was from the late 90's or the 2000s' lol

They were taken on a Leica my dad bought in the late 70s when he was stationed in West Germany; even to this day it takes better pictures than some of my recent digital cameras.

Wow, i never knew that! Now that's what i call quality :lol:

By the way, it's a bit saddening to see how much the skyline of New York City has changed so much after the Twin Towers were destroyed, maybe it were just because they were so tall and were significant in the skyline. R.I.P all innocent victims who passed away in the attacks.

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-72403.html

An interesting collection of pictures taken of the twins on 9/11/01. Three of these photos were taken before the crashes. It's chilling to look at them and realize how everything would change in a matter of hours.

.....

Here's another, right before the first plane crashes.

http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/photos/4287003?q=name%3A%22David%20Swenson%22

http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/media/image/626/436/4263006.png
http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/media/image/626/436/4287003.png
http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/media/image/626/436/4299001.png

Wow flux, that is an incredible find. I have never seen those before. Chilling.

Me neither. I didn't put any other pics from this same person because this is not a forum for it.

Wow. I'm sure more pictures like that will crop up as the museum actually comes online.

I browsed through the linked pictures quickly earlier today and there's a pair of pictures from Windows from the night of the 10th. Good grief. It's still hard to comprehend.

Wow, your right. Judging by pics, a video, and Weather Underground, there was a storm in the daytime and one at night I believe from a cold front.

http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/media/image/626/436/2437005.png
http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/media/image/626/436/2407011.png
http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/media/image/626/436/301001.png

Just another normal evening. On some business trip enjoying a few nice (and expensive) cocktails high in the sky. And then the next day it was all gone.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/563414_414027968614584_234387469911969_1810552_1015929300_n.jpg

What no one wants to accept is at the roof there were two buildings going all the way to ground level with an acre of floor area on each and every floor.......The new WTC has one building with a way smaller area at this level and the actual office space ends well below the old towers. I hope the new centre is great but it has a high pedistal to reach......

The plaza looks lively in 2001 compared to when it was first built.

http://i.imgur.com/MIlUH.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/Scardybat/Wtc%20offices/Abandoned/RackstrawDownes06.jpg

What no one wants to accept is at the roof there were two buildings going all the way to ground level with an acre of floor area on each and every floor.......The new WTC has one building with a way smaller area at this level and the actual office space ends well below the old towers. I hope the new centre is great but it has a high pedistal to reach......

That's one of the things I don't like about the new buildings; they have relatively small floorplates at their tops compared to the Twins. And the midrise floorplans are still considerably smaller than their predecessors.

To give you an example of this, here's a highrise floor plan for Two World Trade Center.

http://i42.tinypic.com/nzmvti.jpg

Where did you find that at?

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2755/4175920209_c773fc0473_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/themachinestops/4175920209/)
01427_n_9acr87rxq1937 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/themachinestops/4175920209/) by TheMachineStops (http://www.flickr.com/people/themachinestops/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2627/3711329605_890ab54065_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/themachinestops/3711329605/)
Tragedy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/themachinestops/3711329605/) by TheMachineStops (http://www.flickr.com/people/themachinestops/), on Flickr

Where did you find that at?

They are available here:

http://www.wtc.com/media/images/wtc-renderings

Click on the name of the building, and you can see floorplans for that tower. For some reason, they don't have floor plans for 1WTC.

Here's what an office might look like on the higher floors of 4WTC (past the setback).

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/35_34_T4-High-Rise-Floorplan.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2627/3711329605_890ab54065_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/themachinestops/3711329605/)
Tragedy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/themachinestops/3711329605/) by TheMachineStops (http://www.flickr.com/people/themachinestops/), on Flickr

What I'll always remember the Lower Manhattan skyline as. Nothing can ever replace it.

What I'll always remember the Lower Manhattan skyline as.

Me too. Until the day I die.

Even though I hardly knew about them until 9-11.

I'll still visit the new tower's observation deck when it opens.

We're not the only ones, I saw this walking around earlier.

http://i43.tinypic.com/29uypg4.jpg

These photos are so beautiful. I wish I had the privilege of visiting NYC pre-9/11 :(

We're not the only ones, I saw this walking around earlier.


FDNY logo, anyone?

I've visited NYC several times, all after 9/11. The Twin Towers are still very much alive in images/logos throughout the city.

I went to my job today to setup my cubicle, meet my new coworkers, and respond to e-mail.

While sitting around, I made this. Idle hands are the devil's workshop.

One post-it note for each tower (folded into fourths), two for the base, quarter of a coffee stirrer for the antenna. Small squares folded into quadrants (like a hat truss) for the tower roofs. Not perfect, but I like how it turned out.

http://i42.tinypic.com/izolxl.jpg

What was their reaction when they saw that you made this?

My coworkers liked it. One guy asked me if I would make him one with the exterior columns visible (drawn on), but I told him I'm not skilled enough to do that.

Next one, I'm going to try making One WTC, but that's going to be a little more complicated.

July 19, 1971, the South Tower is topped out at 1,362 feet.

http://photographyblog.dallasnews.com/assets_c/2011/08/wtc004-thumb-600x884-120226.jpg

From: http://photographyblog.dallasnews.com/archives/historical-photos/

July 19, 1971, the South Tower is topped out at 1,362 feet.

From: http://photographyblog.dallasnews.com/archives/historical-photos/

July 19th is two days before my birthday :D Great pic :)

Fluxion sent me this in a PM. Too many pictures to post, so I'll just toss the link to you guys.

Windows on the World over the years. [along with some random other restaurants and the once defunct, now defunct again Rainbow Room. seriously they should bring that back as well]

http://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/library/collections/wow/advsearch.html?ptitle=&subject=&submit=Display+All+Photos

Holy crap! Big Kitchen! That was my absolute favorite place to eat at the WTC and maybe all of New York. I bought most of my bread and seafood there.

http://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/app/attach/get.html?target=ia&id=2968&size=2

Oh perfect you know what that is. Was that in the mall?

FDNY logo, anyone?
Sometimes you see it on Port Authority officers as well.

http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAqctqKnfCIyrkX&w=180&h=540&url=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F4%2F48%2FPAPD_Patch.jpg&fallback=hub_likes&prefix=d

Oh perfect you know what that is. Was that in the mall?

It was actually on the street level concourse.

On the Vesey street side.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6184/6062622581_ffe9846d3a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jakerajs/6062622581/)
6252-000102 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jakerajs/6062622581/) by Jake Rajs (http://www.flickr.com/people/jakerajs/), on Flickr

All of these were taken on 9/10/01 according to the people who posted them:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2863826-3x2-700x467.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-05/the-day-before-the-storm-september-10-2001-photos/2870854

http://edrode.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/wtcimage.png

http://edrode.com/archives/1005

http://www.avotaynu.com/gifs/NewYorkCity.jpg

http://www.avotaynu.com/100901.htm

http://www.zenaa.com/wtc/images/s200109100985.jpg

http://www.zenaa.com/wtc/images/s200109100985.jpg


http://www.flickr.com/photos/abcnews_au/6129278084/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/abcnews_au/6129278084/lightbox/

http://www.brooklynfilmfestival.org/films/2002/sep10.jpg

http://www.brooklynfilmfestival.org/films/detail.asp?fid=151

Video of the last pic.

http://vimeo.com/28157767

Video of the last pic.

http://vimeo.com/28157767


Wow, neat find! Quite a thunderstorm. The Yanks - Red Sox game that night was a rain out. That storm moved through and paved the way for an absolutely beautiful day on the 11th.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-09-last-day_x.htm

From the PC version of Max Payne, released July 2001. The towers were removed from the PS2 and XBox ports of the game (which were released in December 2001).

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l123/oberonwatchman/ScreenShot027.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l123/oberonwatchman/ScreenShot026.jpg

Hey guys,
I am new on this thread and here are the twin towers on GTA IV =)
Hbx84 who is designed those twin towers. =)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536346_439386426078738_234387469911969_1892656_426360225_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536346_439386419412072_234387469911969_1892654_226597284_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536346_439386412745406_1945151057_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394357_438774932806554_234387469911969_1891066_966667791_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394357_438774929473221_234387469911969_1891065_1046065406_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394357_438774942806553_234387469911969_1891068_845610594_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394357_438774946139886_234387469911969_1891069_1661784407_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/401657_349491591734889_234387469911969_1594461_1019056996_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395786_349491625068219_234387469911969_1594463_1740683602_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/409745_349491651734883_234387469911969_1594464_722096550_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/398732_349689498381765_234387469911969_1594916_1029099276_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387536_349689551715093_234387469911969_1594918_1152162024_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/383324_349689568381758_234387469911969_1594919_1089986195_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391033_349689581715090_234387469911969_1594921_690966948_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564178_345854222142379_100001534129090_926120_544118477_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/530165_441691969181517_234387469911969_1897493_348236585_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418565_391875764160968_100000156420757_1806877_2143548119_n.jpg

Like us on GTA IV - World Trade Center Mod page =)

Best regards,
RomerJon17

Very nice, the placement by the WTF buildings is perfect. I'll have to install the mod.

Hell, if I didn't know any better, I'd say those buildings look like they'd been in the game since the beginning.

Very nice, the placement by the WTF buildings is perfect. I'll have to install the mod.

Hell, if I didn't know any better, I'd say those buildings look like they'd been in the game since the beginning.


Rockstars designed their own twin towers but Port Authority didn't accept them to be imported to GTA IV... Hmm :/

Chapelo: I knew about this model, but I never knew you'd be interested in those types of games.

RomerJon17: I'm quantumflux432 of gta forums.

Too bad I don't have a better computer.

I kept getting hits on my photobucket a while back from the GTA guys. Looks very nice and I wish there was a way to get it into the 360 version.

Chapelo: I knew about this model, but I never knew you'd be interested in those types of games.


Oh man, I was first in line at Electronics Boutique the night the PS2 went on sale, first in line when GTA III (and Vice City, San Andreas) went on sale. Final Fantasy VII is the best game ever made and changed my life.

I don't play as much as I used to, but I still play BF3 and CS: Source when I have time. I quit playing WoW about a year ago, game finally got boring.

But yeah, my wife and I are huge nerds :cheers:

From 1999

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6944281633_f854dd5386_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/76966777@N07/6944281633/)
WTC, NYC, 1999. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/76966777@N07/6944281633/) by _Sayf (http://www.flickr.com/people/76966777@N07/), on Flickr

http://images.worldgallery.co.uk/highres_images/worldgallery/7/2/72753.jpg

Hey guys, new here. I recently bought this photo in a frame for my wall. It's entitled Manhattan Black and was taken by Richard Berenholtz.

I was just intrigued as to whether anyone knows when it was taken?

I'd guess at mid- to late-90s or possible 2000/01 but no earlier than mid-90s? Anyone got a better guess?

Cheers.

Hey guys, new here. I recently bought this photo in a frame for my wall. It's entitled Manhattan Black and was taken by Richard Berenholtz.

I was just intrigued as to whether anyone knows when it was taken?

I'd guess at mid- to late-90s or possible 2000/01 but no earlier than mid-90s? Anyone got a better guess?

Cheers.

It's definitely from the mid-90s. Could be later, but it's hard to tell. I can tell it's from the 90s or later because I can see the Millenium Hilton next to the WTC, and that was completed in 1993.

If this was on the west side of Manhattan, you could look for buildings that were constructed in the late 90s, like the NYMEX building at the WFC (1997), or the Ritz-Carlton (2001).

It's definitely from the mid-90s. Could be later, but it's hard to tell. I can tell it's from the 90s or later because I can see the Millenium Hilton next to the WTC, and that was completed in 1993.

If this was on the west side of Manhattan, you could look for buildings that were constructed in the late 90s, like the NYMEX building at the WFC (1997), or the Ritz-Carlton (2001).
Cheers, Chapelo. You sure do know your stuff about the WTC. :p

What would be your best guess? Would there be any way of finding out?

I'd probably say 1996 or 1997.

Also, which building is the Millenium Hotel? Is it one of the two large buildings above the Brooklyn Bridge or the one just to the left of the South Tower?

Cheers, Chapelo. You sure do know your stuff about the WTC. :p

What would be your best guess? Would there be any way of finding out?

I'd probably say 1996 or 1997.

I worked there for four years, I got to know the area pretty well, especially during late nights when I'd stumble home drunk after a night at Greatest Bar on Earth, trying to find my way to the subway.

There's really no way to tell, unless you had the exif data. Since that's highly unlikely, I would normally look for buildings; the problem is that no significantly high buildings were erected in Lower Manhattan at that time (at least not ones that would be visible from this vantage point, except for the Hilton.) The Hilton is the black tower visible on the lower portion of the North Tower of the WTC.

But if I had to take a guess, I'd say 1996 - 1998 is probably about right.

I worked there for four years, I got to know the area pretty well, especially during late nights when I'd stumble home drunk after a night at Greatest Bar on Earth, trying to find my way to the subway.

There's really no way to tell, unless you had the exif data. Since that's highly unlikely, I would normally look for buildings; the problem is that no significantly high buildings were erected in Lower Manhattan at that time (at least not ones that would be visible from this vantage point, except for the Hilton.) The Hilton is the black tower visible on the lower portion of the North Tower of the WTC.

But if I had to take a guess, I'd say 1996 - 1998 is probably about right.
No worries, and cheers.

You were very lucky to get the chance to work in the WTC for four years, I would have loved to go up it.

Would you guys rather have the twin towers rebuilt, or do you prefer the way it is going to be ? I don't really have an opinion, but I wondered what you thought. I am honestly not sure, the original twins seemed to fit NYC perfectly, especially at night, but the New WTC gives NYC a bold modern look, even sort of futuristic. So what do you think ?

This
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9637/new2cx0nw7.png

or this

http://www.pbase.com/image/25075803/original.jpg
http://www.sd104.s-cook.k12.il.us/students/math/2ndquarter2007webdesign/staceekane/wtcnightsm.jpg
http://tanyaeby.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/wtc-night1.jpg

The original Twin Towers for me.

I just searched the web to get these pics, and wow, it looks so good at night, I really had forgotten how amazing they looked. I would rather have the Twin Towers now. NYC really had the best skyline in the world with these. Look at the last pic i posted, I mean... just wow.

I personally would have rebuilt the Twins as well. Except one floor taller, wider windows, more robust construction (reinforced concrete core, I-Beams instead of transverse trusses)and with the street grid restored. The lowrise buildings were absolute crap and shouldn't have been built in the first place (except for 3WTC, but I don't count that because of where it was built).

The new complex is an aesthetic improvement over the original, however, the Twins were absolutely dominating in their presence, and gave the skyline a "two-thumbs up" optimism that the new buildings just don't have. To me, they just screamed "New York!"

I personally would have rebuilt the Twins as well. Except one floor taller, wider windows, more robust construction (reinforced concrete core, I-Beams instead of transverse trusses)and with the street grid restored. The lowrise buildings were absolute crap and shouldn't have been built in the first place (except for 3WTC, but I don't count that because of where it was built).

The new complex is an aesthetic improvement over the original, however, the Twins were absolutely dominating in their presence, and gave the skyline a "two-thumbs up" optimism that the new buildings just don't have. To me, they just screamed "New York!"

Exactly. The reason NYC and Chicago have always been what I considered the best skylines, is for 3 reasons: The diversity of architecture, their size and power, and their Uniqueness. Chicago looks so unique because of it's style and the massive Sears. Well, the WTC did that for NYC, it was a truly one of a kind skyline, seeing NYC with the WTC, never got old, it was always stunning. The view of the WTC from the Brooklyn bridge, was the best skyline view in the world.

I agree with the two above points. This new building, while certainly tall, will never by a symbol in the way that the old twins were. Let's be honest, you can find somewhat similar looking buildings in places like Atlanta or Dallas. But there was nothing in the world quite like the twins. Whether one thought they were dull or not is immaterial to the fact that they became the perfect abstract representation of economic might. Two twin skyscrapers dominating the most famous skyline in the world. Such an imposing presence.

I remember about a month or so after 9/11, there being talk of putting 40 to 50-story buildings up at the site. And I think it was WPIX (Channel 11) or something that went out and interviewed people on the street to get the public's ideas on what should be built at the site. There was some really loud guy, very guidoish, but they asked him what should go up and he said (and I quote), "The same damn towers that were there!" And that brought tears to my eyes, because I thought I was the only one that felt that way, but it was tons of other New Yorkers and people across the country that felt the same way.

Of course, that's not what we're getting today, but at least One World Trade Center is the same height as the North Tower and resembles it in form, height, and shape (from the boxy base, to the boxy top), so I can live with that.

Does anyone remember the "concept" plans that were released in 2002 by the LMDC? We've come a long way since then.

http://www.thecityreview.com/wtmsquc.jpg

All I want to say is I am SO glad this crap, and the others were not built. The rest of the plans (there are six total), can be seen here:

http://www.thecityreview.com/newwtc.html

The lowrise buildings were absolute crap and shouldn't have been built in the first place

At least the super block saved a lot of people at ground level from the second crash. If someone told me a few years ago that there were crowds of onlookers on all 4 streets around the WTC right when the second plane crash, I wouldn't believe them.

I could image the crowds just looking up right underneath where the plaza would be, ignoring the calls of the police to get out of the area, as displayed in a few videos where they ignore a police truck that blare's at them on Park Row right before the south tower collapses.

But I wonder how it would have looked like without the super block. The only streets that would be intact would be Fulton and Washington streets, the others partly.

I bet they would have converted the Hudson Terminal buildings into residential housing.

The little black building where Wtc 3 would be does look beautiful.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/New_York_City_aerial_view_1919.jpg

I remember about a month or so after 9/11, there being talk of putting 40 to 50-story buildings up at the site. And I think it was WPIX (Channel 11) or something that went out and interviewed people on the street to get the public's ideas on what should be built at the site. There was some really loud guy, very guidoish, but they asked him what should go up and he said (and I quote), "The same damn towers that were there!" And that brought tears to my eyes, because I thought I was the only one that felt that way, but it was tons of other New Yorkers and people across the country that felt the same way.

Of course, that's not what we're getting today, but at least One World Trade Center is the same height as the North Tower and resembles it in form, height, and shape (from the boxy base, to the boxy top), so I can live with that.

Does anyone remember the "concept" plans that were released in 2002 by the LMDC? We've come a long way since then.

http://www.thecityreview.com/wtmsquc.jpg

All I want to say is I am SO glad this crap, and the others were not built. The rest of the plans (there are six total), can be seen here:

http://www.thecityreview.com/newwtc.html

Yeah those designs are horrible... what did you think of these ones

http://inhabitat.com/nyc/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2011/09/daniel-libeskind-world-trade-center-537x382.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/architecture/1/0/s/z/Freedom-Tower-2003-Detail.jpg

I never cared for the Libeskind/Childs Freedom Tower. It was a 70-story building masquerading as a supertall, with a birdcage on top. I think there was a consensus that the building really didn't belong in New York, nor did it really mesh well with the existing skyline.

At least One World Trade Center is a good contrast to the spires of Midtown.

But I wonder how it would have looked like without the super block. The only streets that would be intact would be Fulton and Washington streets, the others partly.

I bet they would have converted the Hudson Terminal buildings into residential housing.


It would have been a better scaled urban plaza, more conducive to New York street life if only the Twins and the Vista had been built. But then again, the mall wouldn't have possible. Neither would the PATH system that we know today. The system that was in place had been in use since 1909 and was falling apart and suffering from declining ridership. The PA buying the H&M railroad paved the way for them to modernize the system, and build more modern facilities (which included the demolition of the Hudson Terminal in 1971).

I have no doubt that the Hudson terminal would be converted to condos today. Same goes for Singer Building were it still standing...

The PA buying the H&M railroad paved the way for them to modernize the system, and build more modern facilities (which included the demolition of the Hudson Terminal in 1971).

But they could have at least did a massive renovation of the old tubes and kept the buildings there. But alas, where would they get the requirement for the 10,000,000 square feet of office space? And in their eyes and everyone else, the area was outdated and decaying, no one knew at the time that things would get better 30 years from that time.

But at the same time I like the superblock.

And in their eyes and everyone else, the area was outdated and decaying, no one knew at the time that things would get better 30 years from that time.

Absolutely true. It certainly wouldn't have survived the way it was through the 70s and 80s. Even if the WTC had never been built in the first place, the area would have eventually come back around. But then again, developments like BPC/WFC wouldn't have been possible without the WTC.

But at the same time I like the superblock.

I liked it too; it was a respite from the hectic pulse of Manhattan, and a great place to eat lunch. Like an urban oasis. If only it had been a bit more lively, it would have been perfect.

I do love how the Lower Manhattan neighborhood has thrived since 9/11 with the influx of residents. It's such a neat neighborhood with the old crooked canyon-like streets.

The Downtown population has doubled since 9/11. I'm glad that 9/11 didn't deter people from moving there.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20110324/downtown/census-figures-hint-at-downtowns-population-boom

http://1000mileproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/the-world-trade-center.jpg

The Freedom tower is ok but the rest looks so out of place. The memorial looks fantastic and kind of reminds you that nothing could be built there. I agree that the Twin's should have been rebuilt.....but alas money always win's in the end. I bet most New Yorkers want them rebuilt!

Thankfully we have 30 years of popular culture to remind us of the greatness that was the Twin Towers!

Thankfully we have 30 years of popular culture to remind us of the greatness that was the Twin Towers!


Yep, the buildings will never completely die. Walk around NYC and you still see images of them all over the place.

My wife and I visited NYC the first week of July in 2008. I had a guy do a caricature of my wife down in Battery Park, he put the twin towers behind her along with the empire state building.
Nothing was really built ye at ground zero although the core of 1 world trade was about 3 stories high in the bathtub.

Yep, the buildings will never completely die. Walk around NYC and you still see images of them all over the place.

Ah that is a good thing, I hope that never changes!

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is a brochure that was produced in 1970 by the Port Authority. The buildings weren't even close to being complete at this time, so most of the pictures are drawings, but it's still very informative!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3496/3818784979_3cf7cc65bb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18528948@N00/3818784979/)
The World Trade Center: A building project like no other (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18528948@N00/3818784979/) by DavideLevine (http://www.flickr.com/people/18528948@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2479/3819592138_c624a1b358_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18528948@N00/3819592138/)
The World Trade Center: A building project like no other (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18528948@N00/3819592138/) by DavideLevine (http://www.flickr.com/people/18528948@N00/), on Flickr

It can be viewed in its entirety here. View them at their largest size!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/18528948@N00/sets/72157622033808694/with/3818784979/

Thank You Chapelo, great info........Dave

I have that brochure! It was provided by a kind soul from another message board that you are all probably familiar with. Anyway, it is awesome and one of those things that I'm going to hold on to for the rest of my life.

And it reminds me that I still need to get this professionally scanned for you guys and all of the other WTC nuts out there:

(crappy digital cam shot of the first and last pages)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wtc1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/wtc2.jpg

If you guys want I can just take some digital camera shots of the other pages this weekend. Lots of advertisements for the contractors who worked on the original WTC along with some fluff stories about the building.

Sure!!! That would be fantastic!!! Thank You

Wow that's amazing! You can see the original design for 3WTC (before it was redesigned by SOM in 1978), as well as the original design for the lowrise buidlings.

And btw, everyone's acting like a bunch of spoiled brats in the 1WTC thread, staying clear of that thread for the time being.

Wow that's amazing! You can see the original design for 3WTC (before it was redesigned by SOM in 1978), as well as the original design for the lowrise buidlings.

And btw, everyone's acting like a bunch of spoiled brats in the 1WTC thread, staying clear of that thread for the time being.

Best thing I have read all day. If I didn't know any better I would guess that everyone whining in that thread is 12.

Quick and dirty, but here you guys go. I need to get these professionally scanned.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc14.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/nytimes%201971%20wtc%20insert/wtc16.jpg

That is incredible stuff. Thank you so much for posting that, meh.

Really awesome Meh

I would much rather read about and look at photos of the old complex than I would study the new buildings. My fascination with the twins never ends and it's great to come here and talk with people who are equally fascinated with the buildings. I have learned/seen so much by reading this thread, particularly in the last few months.

http://www.history.com/images/media/slideshow/9-11-world-trade-center/overview-of-world-trade-center.jpg

meh_cd thanks for that article. I have collected old books and brochures and love to read and see something we will never see again. I know the new WTC will give life back to this area but where in the world is a building or buildings that give an acre of floor space on their 110th level...let alone twice ! The original WTC will always be an icon of world history.No one can ever take that away........anyone who ever saw it or visited it is lucky to have that memory...I am.

Windows on the World

http://containerlist.glaserarchives.org/images/909.jpg

I would much rather read about and look at photos of the old complex than I would study the new buildings. My fascination with the twins never ends and it's great to come here and talk with people who are equally fascinated with the buildings. I have learned/seen so much by reading this thread, particularly in the last few months.

I would say the same thing. Most people immediately think of 9/11 when the Twins are brought up, so in effect they don't want to talk about it. But I want to; it was a part of New York that never really truly died.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2643/4157729586_be17387353_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/secretgardens/4157729586/)
World Trade Center 1982 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/secretgardens/4157729586/) by Rosarian49 (http://www.flickr.com/people/secretgardens/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2745/4156970227_e4d3bd2bd2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/secretgardens/4156970227/)
Manhattan Skyline from Staten Island 1990 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/secretgardens/4156970227/) by Rosarian49 (http://www.flickr.com/people/secretgardens/), on Flickr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_in_popular_culture

meh_cd thanks for that article. I have collected old books and brochures and love to read and see something we will never see again. I know the new WTC will give life back to this area but where in the world is a building or buildings that give an acre of floor space on their 110th level...let alone twice ! The original WTC will always be an icon of world history.No one can ever take that away........anyone who ever saw it or visited it is lucky to have that memory...I am.

Indeed. As the new construction at the site gets watered down, I find myself getting depressed again. I had hope for about 5 years (2006-2011) there, but it is looking like we may end up with a sad mess.

Nothing will ever replace the two shining exclamation points at the tip of Manhattan.