Mods feel free to change the name of the thread to fit current formats. I thought the arena was a big enough project to have its own thread, especially now that prep work has actually begun.

Arena Authority closes on Humana building purchase
Business First of Louisville

The Louisville Arena Authority Inc. has completed its $11 million purchase of Humana Inc.'s Riverview Square building, which sits on the site of the new arena.

Riverview Square, at the intersection of Second and Main streets, will be the last structure on the arena site to be torn down. Demolition is expected to occur in August 2008.

The 750 employees who worked in the 118,000-square-foot building have been relocated to Al J. Schneider Co.'s Waterfront Plaza complex at 325 W. Main St.

In addition to the $11 million purchase price, the Arena Authority also paid $3 million in relocation costs at the closing, according to a news release.

The new 22,000-seat arena is scheduled to open in the fall of 2010.

Here are some renders
http://services.louisvilleky.gov/media/Louisville_arena6.jpg
http://services.louisvilleky.gov/media/Louisville_arena5.jpg
http://services.louisvilleky.gov/media/Louisville_arena4.jpg
http://services.louisvilleky.gov/media/Louisville_arena3.jpg
http://services.louisvilleky.gov/media/Louisville_arena2.jpg
http://services.louisvilleky.gov/media/Louisville_arena1.jpg

Thanks for adding those weezer! You know the more I look at it the more I like it.

Has anybody heard anything about who is in the running for naming rights?

Nice arena, it's gonna look good.

I think I actually read somewhere about Yum being very interested, which makes sense.

I'm still trying to figure out the north side - how that huge window is set up. From one view it looks like just a giant window - then from the view from the west, it looks like it is open to the west and kind of curves. It may look okay eventually - but its hard to figure out how it is going to turn out. Will people on the bridge be able to see the crowds on the inside through the big window? How much will people be able to see of the outside when they are inside? The other (south) side is okay - although it seems to be pulled pretty far away from the street and it looks like a lot of steps that break up the accessibility. I liked the first versions of the arena that I saw back during the summer of 07 and was pretty surprised to see how much those changed to become these new renderings. My initial impression is that I don't like the new look as much as the previous one. It just looks so gray, rectangular and horizontal. Hope it turns out okay.

Anyone have an image of the building to be demolished at 2nd and Main?

Seicer you can see the building in a couple of the pictures Soul took.

Wow, that's a great looking arena! I like how the plaza will be set up too.

Bad news?


courier-journal.com > Business
Saturday, January 19, 2008
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Downgrade of Ambac may hamper bond issues
Insurer was picked to back Louisville arena offering

From Staff and Wire Dispatches

A downgrade of bond insurer Ambac Financial Group Inc. is likely to have far-reaching effects, making it more difficult for cities to issue bonds and forcing further write-downs at financial services companies, analysts said yesterday.

After Ambac scrapped plans to raise $1 billion in capital, Fitch Ratings cut the company's crucial financial strength rating to "AA" from "AAA."



The downgrade likely means Ambac will not underwrite any more business, said John Flahive, director of fixed income for BNY Mellon Wealth Management. Market prices of existing bonds insured by Ambac and MBIA Inc. were trading lower before the downgrade, and Flahive suggested any downgrade could accelerate the decline.

Ambac and chief competitor MBIA together insure $700 billion in municipal bonds.

Ambac was chosen by Goldman Sachs, the underwriter of the bonds for the planned downtown Louisville arena, to insure the arena bonds.

Bruce Traughber, the city's economic-development director, said it's too early to speculate on whether the downgrade will have any effect on the arena bonds. "We will begin to work immediately with the Arena Authority as best we can to keep the (arena) project on track," Traughber said.

Louisville Arena Authority Chairman Jim Host did not immediately respond to telephone messages seeking comment, and Vice Chairman Larry Hayes' office phone went unanswered yesterday afternoon.

The authority has agreed to pay Ambac $11.4 million to insure the bonds. Ambac would be responsible for paying the principal and interest if revenue projections don't cover the bond debt.

The authority plans to issue up to $360 million in bonds to finance the arena's construction.

The plan calls for paying off the bonds with revenue from building advertising rights, new taxes generated by the project and a pledge from the city of at least $206 million.

Before Ambac's downgrade, T.J. Marta, a fixed-income analyst at RBC Capital Markets, said a downgrade of the company would lead to downgrades of all the municipal bonds it insured. Subsequently, it will become more difficult for cities, counties and other local entities to issue debt for building projects, Marta said.

Several types of municipal issuers will be most vulnerable if they can no longer secure insurance.

These are borrowers like small private schools and hospitals that are not backed by a regular tax base or revenue stream.

Typically, these entities have needed insurance to gain credibility and sell their debt.

At the very minimum, the troubles of the insurers will drive up borrowing costs of cities and other local entities at a time when many are strained by weaker tax revenue, said John Atkins, a fixed-income analyst at IDEAGlobal.com.

Reporter Sheldon S. Shafer contributed to this story.

Dang, that's spooky, after everything has already been torn down...

how many is it gonna hold?

around 22,000

Abramson's office clarifies arena cost estimates
By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson’s office today clarified remarks the mayor made Wednesday night concerning the cost of a proposed downtown arena.

Abramson told members of the Metro Democratic Club that there could be $50 million to $70 million in arena savings, including lower construction costs. He cited an example of increased competition from steel providers.

Chad Carlton, an Abramson spokesman, said yesterday that the mayor was blending debt and construction expenses.

“He was taking the notion you could save money on construction costs, the notion that you might save money on financing costs, mixing those together and throwing out some ballpark figures,” Carlton said.

The figures Abramson cited were similar to numbers the bond underwriter Goldman Sachs presented to the Louisville Arena Authority late last month. The bond deal could be structured so that interest rates could lead to debt service $50 million to $75 million below current estimates of $673 million, Goldman vice president Tom Rousakis told the authority.

The estimated cost of the arena is $254 million. Construction on the 22,000-seat building is expected to start later this year.

The authority is planning to sell $360 million in bonds to cover construction and related costs. Rousakis said in late January that bond deal should be done by mid-March, with the money ready for use at the start of April.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

More headaches for the arena!

Arena authority, state at odds
Bidder protests demolition deal

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal


The Louisville Arena Authority plans to finalize a deal with its Cincinnati demolition contractor despite a request by the Kentucky Finance and Administration Cabinet to suspend negotiations.

At issue is a protest filed last week with the state by CRS Demolition, a Louisville company that bid on the job that the authority awarded to O'Rourke Wrecking last month.

In a letter to Finance Secretary Jonathan Miller, CRS Demolition claims the authority failed to follow state procurement law when it selected a demolition contractor through competitive bidding.

A Finance Cabinet attorney last week asked arena officials to indefinitely suspend the O'Rourke deal, according to a letter sent to the authority's general counsel and obtained by The Courier-Journal under the state's open-records laws.

Arena authority Chairman Jim Host said the agency followed procurement rules -- and it doesn't plan to wait.

"We don't have time to wait for two or three months until somebody, somewhere makes a decision," he said. "We've made it, and we're going ahead."

There's no time frame for Miller to take action, said Jill Midkiff, a Finance Cabinet spokeswoman.

The arena authority denied two of the newspaper's open-records requests over the past month to review the bids, saying the documents were preliminary. The authority released the records yesterday, a day after sending them to the state.

Those documents show that CRS Demolition's bid of $1.6 million was the lowest among five companies that pursued the contract. The authority unanimously approved O'Rourke's $2.8 million bid on Jan. 28.

Evaluating the bids were construction committee Chairman Dan Ulmer, Host, Metro Council President Jim King, a nonvoting authority member, and consultant Rick Godsey, Host said.

Price accounted for half of the selection criteria, and experience made up about one-third of the 100-point evaluation. Other factors included a proposed schedule and minority business participation.

"The biggest issue we had with the demolition firms was the experience having to do with implosion and demolition. And this firm is the only one that does their own implosion," Host said of O'Rourke.

In addition, he said the company had the most experience razing utility structures such as the Louisville Gas & Electric Co. distribution station at Second and Main streets. O'Rourke's projects include dismantling a Cinergy generating station in Noblesville, Ind., and demolishing equipment at a North Bend, Ohio, Cinergy plant.

O'Rourke has begun work at the site, Host said. Its schedule calls for razing the LG&E building and imploding a former Humana office building by November.

If the schedule is not met, it could lead to delays that include postponing by one season the use of the arena in late 2010 by the University of Louisville's basketball teams, Host said.

Of the five companies that bid for the arena site work, CRS Demolition was not among three finalists chosen by consultant Godsey Asbestos Consultants of Louisville and San Antonio-based arena project manager PC Sports.

"They just did not show that they had that type of experience, as well as they did not submit a schedule, which was 10 percent of the overall selection criteria," Godsey said. "That's the main thing that really shot them in the foot from the very beginning."

But Daryl Brown, CRS Demolition's vice president of operations, said those claims aren't true.

"We agreed to meet their schedule," Brown said in an interview yesterday. "They didn't ask for a schedule. They gave us the schedule."

Brown said his company has experience with utility work and other large projects, such as razing the old Rhodia plant at 11th and Hill streets. It also demolished a wing of the Kentucky Exposition Center in 2006 and completed that job within a 45-day schedule, he said.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

Arena cost estimate trimmed by $5 million
By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

The estimated cost of building a downtown Louisville arena now stands at $249 million, according to the project’s construction manager, a $5 million decrease arena officials attribute in part to lower steel and concrete prices.

M.A. Mortenson Construction announced the new estimate, down from $254 million, during this morning’s meeting of the Louisville Arena Authority. A final revision is expected this summer.

The cost will be part of a “construction manager at-risk” contract in which Mortenson ensures a maximum price before construction begins and is liable for any cost overruns.

Jim Host, the arena authority’s chairman, told reporters that the lower cost is a result of careful oversight by the authority, which he said has ensured that architect HOK Sport hasn’t added features that will increase the price.

“We didn’t allow that to happen, and we’ve been involved every single step of the way,” Host said.

In addition, Host said initial bids on concrete and steel prices were lower than earlier estimates.

Also at today’s meeting, Host said the authority has “a signed commitment” from a major bond insurance company to insure revenue bonds that would pay for the arena construction. He declined to name the firm, but he said Ambac Financial Group is among two companies the authority is in talks with.

Ambac is reportedly in talks to raise $3 billion and separate its municipal bond business from its mortgage-backed securities, which have seen losses due to the nation’s subprime mortgage crisis. The authority originally selected Ambac to insure the bonds.

Host said the authority’s finance committee, chaired by Larry Hayes, Gov. Steve Beshear’s executive cabinet secretary, will meet over the next two weeks to review the bond insurance proposal. The authority could have money from the bond issue ready to spend sometime in April, he said.

“This has taken a long time to get to this point but we now feel obviously fully confident that we’re in a position of being able to move ahead,” Host said.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

They threw out the other companies complaint, but this one sounds like they have a little more to gripe about.
Arena site-work contract protested
Losing bidder says job details changed

By Marcus Green
magreen@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal


For the second time this month, a demolition company has objected to how the Louisville Arena Authority awarded a contract to raze two buildings.

Dore & Associates Contracting of Bay City, Mich., yesterday filed a protest with Kentucky's Finance and Administration Cabinet, claiming that the authority unfairly allowed the winning bidder to change the job's specifications and methods.

An arena official denied those claims.

It is the second protest lodged with the cabinet since the authority selected O'Rourke Wrecking of Cincinnati late last month and agreed to pay it $2.8 million to tear down the structures at the arena site at Second and Main streets.

Dore argued that its $1.6 million bid was based on the authority's request that a parking garage beneath a former Humana office building be left intact. Accordingly, Dore said, the company did not propose imploding the building.

O'Rourke plans to implode the building -- and arena officials have cited that as a reason for their selection.

Dore is seeking legal counsel "in this blatant and outrageous lack of procedure by the Louisville Arena Authority in choosing the low and responsive bidder," Arthur M. Dore, the company's president, wrote in a letter to Finance Secretary Jonathan Miller.

Dore provided a copy of the letter to The Courier-Journal. Jill Midkiff, a finance cabinet spokeswoman, declined to comment because Miller has not yet reviewed Dore's letter.

Based on a formula accounting for price, experience, minority involvement and schedule, an arena consultant ranked Dore as the top bidder among three finalists for the demolition work.

After interviewing the finalists, the authority's construction committee selected O'Rourke.

Authority Chairman Jim Host said O'Rourke's plan to implode the Humana building avoided the need for a separate barrier to protect Main Street, a recommendation that saved the authority at least $300,000.

Host said the four people who selected Dore -- construction committee Chairman Dan Ulmer; Metro Council President Jim King, a nonvoting authority member; consultant Rick Godsey; and Host -- did so on their own.

"All of us were obviously convinced that O'Rourke could do this job for us and they won the thing on a very competitive basis," Host said. "I don't know how to respond any better than that."

Host also said Dore was the only company that bid on the arena project that did not propose implosion among its demolition options -- a statement confirmed by a bid tabulation sheet that The Courier-Journal obtained under the state's open-records laws.

Earlier this week, the cabinet denied a protest from CRS Demolition, a Louisville company that also had bid on the arena contract.

Lori H. Flanery, the cabinet's deputy secretary, determined that CRS Demolition, the low bidder on the project, filed its complaint too late and did not show that the authority's actions were "arbitrary, capricious or contrary to law."

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

Arena Authority considering variable interest rate
The Louisville Arena Authority plans to consider a proposal from bond insurer Assured Guaranty that officials say would result in lower financing costs for a downtown arena than a plan from rival Ambac Financial Group.

Insuring the bonds with Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty would be done through a variable rate deal in which interest rates would be locked in at current levels but could rise if, for example, the insurer’s top-flight credit rating is reduced.

Under that approach, the total financing costs would be $646 million over 30 years, compared with more than $700 million under Ambac’s fixed-rate plan, authority chairman Jim Host said this morning at the group’s monthly meeting. He called a fixed-rate deal “untenable” under current market conditions.

The financing costs are still higher than projections of $573 million when the authority voted in January 2007 to hire Goldman Sachs to underwrite the bonds, which will pay for construction of the building at Second and Main streets.

Host said a variable-rate deal means debt service would be about $19 million less than the authority’s projections of $665 million earlier this year.

“I’m very encouraged today compared to where, quite frankly, I thought we were two months ago, and we still can do a fixed-rate deal if the market corrects over the next 30 days or so,” he said.

Metro Council President Jim King, a nonvoting member of the authority, said he’s not satisfied with the discussions and cautioned that a decision isn’t immediately necessary.

“I’m hopeful that the capital markets will improve over time and that we’ll be in a position where we can do what we did with the projections that we put forward,” he said.

In interviews after the meeting, Host and King said the primary risk of a variable-rate deal is with the bond insurer. If rating agencies were to lower Assured Guaranty’s credit rating, the interest costs could increase, Host said.

Also at today’s meeting, John Hilkene of project manager PC Sports said interior demolition has begun inside two buildings on the arena site. He expects the buildings will be razed starting in mid-July.

The meeting was the last for Louisville businessman Neville Blakemore, who is leaving the board to pursue other appointments, including one on the Metro Parks advisory board. Mayor Jerry Abramson has named marketing consultant and entrepreneur Eric Gunderson to replace Blakemore.

**double post**

Arena authority expects to get bond insurer next week
By Marcus Green

FRANKFORT, Ky. – Bond insurer Assured Guaranty may commit as early as next week to cover bonds for construction on a planned downtown Louisville arena, a vice president with bond underwriter Goldman Sachs told lawmakers today.

Tom Rousakis, speaking before the General Assembly’s capital projects and bond oversight committee, also said he’s “extremely confident” that investors will buy $360 million in bonds to pay for the project at Second and Main streets.

Rousakis said the bond market’s instability in the wake of the nation’s subprime mortgage crisis has improved in recent weeks, raising the possibility of going ahead with the authority’s preference to issue fixed-rate bonds.

“We haven’t felt this type of optimism in our market for a very long period of time. … It’s still a viable option right now for the authority,” Rousakis said.

Based on current market conditions, Rousakis told lawmakers that the estimated interest rate on the bonds now stands at between 5.25 and 5.5 percent, compared with more than 6 percent several weeks ago.

Earlier this month, Louisville Arena Authority chairman Jim Host said a fixed-rate deal would be “untenable" under current credit-market conditions. Host was traveling today and did not attend the meeting.

The issue was before the bond oversight committee because the Kentucky Economic Development Finance Authority is issuing the bonds, although neither the state nor the city would be responsible for the debt. That would fall to the bond insurer.

Arena authority plans to finalize bond insurer deal in coming week
Business First of Louisville - by John R. Karman III Business First Staff Writer

The Louisville Arena Authority Inc. expects to finally have a deal in place by early next week to insure about $360 million in bonds it plans to issue to cover construction-related costs for the planned downtown arena.

Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty is finalizing its proposal and is expected to send it to New York City-based bond underwriter Goldman Sachs Group Inc. by the end of this week, according to authority chairman Jim Host.

Plans could change, Host said following this morning's monthly authority meeting at the Kentucky International Convention Center, but they currently call for Assured to insure about $260 million in bonds at a fixed rate and the remaining $100 million at a variable rate.

Once a signed deal with Assured is completed, the authority can move forward with selling the bonds, which it now hopes to do in June, depending on market conditions, Host said.

That would keep arena construction on schedule and allow for the opening of the facility in fall 2010, he added.

The $249 million arena is planned for Second and Main streets downtown. Its anchor tenant will be the University of Louisville's men's and women's basketball teams.

Assured would replace the arena authority's first choice for a bond insurer, troubled Ambac Financial Group Inc. Ambac had proposed a fixed-rate plan for insuring the arena bonds that had total financing costs of more than $700 million.

Greg Carey, managing director of Goldman Sachs' sports facility financing group, told the arena authority this morning that total interest costs under the Assured plan would be in the low-$600 million range, a "significant savings" over what they would have been just three months ago.

Financing costs were projected at $573 million in January 2007, before fallout from the subprime mortgage crisis caused that figure to escalate.

In the past few weeks, conditions have improved dramatically, according to Carey.

"The municipal (bond) market has come back with a vengeance," he said.

Any news on this yet? Its been over two weeks. If its been slowed up some more, anyone know why?

There is a new video up at the arena sight basically just going through the different color schemes. It is neat to see that the fountain changes color with the building. Also I was reading the facts sheet on the right hand side and it mentioned the capacity for NCAA swimming events I didn't think this was going to be a possibility with this facility.


http://arenaauthority.com/

The possibility of having the NCAA swimming championships here was discussed earlier on. Somehow they plan on putting a temporary pool on the floor. Sounds like kind of a strange set up to me, I can see how it can work for a lap pool but I'm not sure how it could work for diving.

I hope they don't plan on having the colors change on the actual arena and the video just shows colors they are considering. The changing colors makes it look like a cheap carnival attraction. Of course since UofL sports will compete there I'm not sure why they are considering any color but red!

Assured Guaranty to insure arena bonds
Business First of Louisville - by John R. Karman III Staff writer

At long last, the Louisville Arena Authority Inc. has a signed deal with a company that will insure the $360 million in bonds it plans to issue to cover construction-related costs for the planned downtown arena.

Authority chairman Jim Host signed the agreement with Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Ltd. at this morning's monthly authority meeting at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

Assured Guaranty, a bond insurer with a AAA rating, will insure a bond structure with a combination of fixed- and variable-rate bonds.

The anticipated interest cost is 5.31 percent per year, according to Host. Total debt service on the arena is expected to be about $602 million, which will be paid off over a period of more than three decades.

Financing costs were projected at $573 million in January 2007, but fallout from the subprime mortgage crisis caused that figure to escalate.

With the deal with Assured completed, the arena authority plans to issue bonds in late June, depending on market conditions, and hopes to have the sale of the bonds finalized in early July.

That would keep construction of the $249 million arena on course for a November 2010 opening, according to Host.

The facility, planned for Second and Main streets downtown, will have the University of Louisville's men's and women's basketball teams as its primary tenants.

The signed deal with Assured comes after months of uncertainty about how the arena bonds would be insured.

The authority's first choice for a bond insurer, Ambac Financial Group Inc., was hard hit by the subprime crisis and had proposed a financing plan that Host had called "untenable."

As recently as six weeks ago, Host said, the authority believed total interest costs for the arena project could approach $670 million.

Having an agreement in place with a bond insurer makes today "one of the great days" for the arena effort, Host said, adding that the deal should alleviate any lingering doubts about the viability of the project.

Putting together the agreement had been "the biggest single hurdle" facing the arena project, he added.

Tom Rousakis, vice president of public sector and infrastructure banking for New York City-based Goldman Sachs Group Inc., the arena authority's bond underwriter, expressed optimism moving forward.

"There seems to be order back in the (municipal) market," he said.

In other arena news, Host said all interior arena designs should be available for public viewing at the authority's next meeting, which is set for 9 a.m. Monday, June 23, also at the convention center.

Kansas City, Mo.-based HOK Sport is the architectural firm handling the arena's design features.

well i was actually at the last arena authority meeting, and this thing is chugging along. the bonds are not set but Host now has the authority to sign them in july unless the variable interest rate rises again. also, interior demolition is almost finished on the humana building and it is scheduled for implosion the end of july. they hope to have the sight clear for mortenson to begin construction by the fall. also LG&E will turn over their portion of the property by july as well as work on the substation nears completion. all the authority meetings are open to the publi and the next one is sposed to be a pretty big one because more detailed color schemes as well as plaza and interior designs will be released. So far the project is moving along as scheduled.....i suggest you all attend the next meeting.

Good luck with getting things finalized for starting on the arena. With regard to swimming events at a big arena like that, in 2005 or 2006 Indianapolis hosted the World Short Course Swimming Championships at Conseco Fieldhouse. I went on a Saturday night when there were about 14,000 people in attendance. It was pretty cool. They built the 25 meters long, 8 lane pool with about nine foot deep water and the "floor" around the pool was about nine and a half feet above the regular "floor" of the fieldhouse. The floor extended over the first few rows of seats, so the new front rows for the seating were what used to be the fifth or sixth rows of the regular arena seating. The pool was obviously world class, to host the World Championships. I believe several world records were set. They did not have diving at this event. I guess in world swimming events, the swimming and diving are separate championships. For the NCAA event though, diving is part of the combined swimming and diving championships. (Indy also has hosted the NCAA Swimming and Diving Championships many times, but at the IU Natatorium on the IUPUI campus.) I'm not sure where the diving part of the championships would be if Louisville were to host the event. They may have to have that part of the competition at some other facility in Louisville - or else figure out a way to build an 18 foot deep diving pool inside the arena. Interesting.

U of L to start selling tickets at new arena
By Michael Grant • mgrant@courier-journal.com • May 15, 2008

University of Louisville basketball fans finally order seats in the new downtown arena.

The UofL athletic department announced today it will begin selling 2,000 lower-level side-court club seats for the arena, which is scheduled to open November 2010. The facility will be the home for the Cardinals men’s and women’s basketball teams.

Athletic director Tom Jurich said U of L was able to start selling tickets after Monday’s announcement that Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty would insure construction bonds for the $249 million arena.

Jurich, who was joined at yesterday’s new conference by arena authority Chairman Jim Host, said the selling of these tickets signals the start of U of L “moving forward” with its plans for its new home.

“Once this became reality on Monday – that was the biggest key point in our minds of being able to say ‘How are we going to move forward now?’” Jurich said. “We’ve been meeting with people behind the scenes, with donors, with people who have suites. But now when we say the building is going to happen we need to get aggressive and start marketing.”

Club seat holders will have access to an exclusive lounge beneath the stands at court level as well as premium parking privileges. Cardinal fans with club seats will all have the first opportunity to purchase their tickets to other sporting events, concerts and other performances at the arena.

Jurich and associate athletic director for development Gary Friedman declined to give an exact cost for these seats. Friedman said the pricing will be based on the priority-points structure. That is based on how long the individual has had season tickets, how long the person has been a donor, the number of years the person has been involved with the program, and the donation levels.

“It will be on a case-by-case basis,” he said. “Each person is going to have their own individual circumstance.”

Those who are interested in obtaining club seats should contact the Cardinal Athletic Fund at (502) 852-5735.

Good luck with getting things finalized for starting on the arena. With regard to swimming events at a big arena like that, in 2005 or 2006 Indianapolis hosted the World Short Course Swimming Championships at Conseco Fieldhouse. I went on a Saturday night when there were about 14,000 people in attendance. It was pretty cool. They built the 25 meters long, 8 lane pool with about nine foot deep water and the "floor" around the pool was about nine and a half feet above the regular "floor" of the fieldhouse. The floor extended over the first few rows of seats, so the new front rows for the seating were what used to be the fifth or sixth rows of the regular arena seating. The pool was obviously world class, to host the World Championships. I believe several world records were set. They did not have diving at this event. I guess in world swimming events, the swimming and diving are separate championships. For the NCAA event though, diving is part of the combined swimming and diving championships. (Indy also has hosted the NCAA Swimming and Diving Championships many times, but at the IU Natatorium on the IUPUI campus.) I'm not sure where the diving part of the championships would be if Louisville were to host the event. They may have to have that part of the competition at some other facility in Louisville - or else figure out a way to build an 18 foot deep diving pool inside the arena. Interesting.

Uofl has a brand new auquatic center with great diving facilities, but I'm not sure what sort of capacity it has for large events.

Louisville Arena construction could be delayed
FOX 41Featured Video
Arena construction delay

A state agency's decision could lead to a delay in the start of construction for Louisville's new arena. That has the Arena Authority in hot water over the bid it awarded to demolish buildings on the arena site.

With construction financing still up in the air, pre-demolition work has been one of the arena project's bright spots. But a Finance Cabinet ruling may mean demolition won't be ahead of schedule much longer.

Louisville-based CRS Demolition and Dore Contracting of Michigan both complained after their $1.6 million dollar bids were passed over. O'Rourke Wrecking got the job, even though it's bid was a million dollars higher.

On February 24th, Jim Host, the Arena Authority Chairman, said, "It isn't based on just the lowest bid. It's based on the best bid." But the two contractors were stunned to learn O'Rourke would implode the Humana Building and it did not have to save the parking garage.

The Finance Cabinet now agrees bid documents clearly called for sparing the parking garage, and finds the Arena Authority was wrong to go along with O'Rourke's proposal to change the plan.

According to the Finance Cabinet, the contract with O'Rourke must be rescinded and new steps taken to make sure the process is fair to all interested in making a new bid.

Dick Irby is working to get reaction on these developments from the Arena Authority. He'll have more later Monday on Fox News at Four.

wow, it seems as if the State of Kentucky is hell-bent on doing all it can to derail the construction of this arena. Is there any good news about this proposal? Geesh, I would be furious if I was a Louisville resident.

The leadership on this project and seems almost everything else in Louisville is the worst! I am determined that nothing can get done easily in Louisville! I love the city but it drains me to hear all these announcements and then having nothing actually come to fruition. I'm surprised we have any highrises or development at all in this city.

wow, it seems as if the State of Kentucky is hell-bent on doing all it can to derail the construction of this arena. Is there any good news about this proposal? Geesh, I would be furious if I was a Louisville resident.

Actually, I'm a citizen of Louisville and I'm extremely pleased with the state decision! Louisville government always wants to do what it wants to instead of following the rules.

In this case they awarded the contract to the highest bidder and that bidders bid didn't meet the specifications. I know about you but I feel this was totally wrong and probably would have resulted in a lawsuit costing the citizens of Louisville much more money in the long run.

This entire project has kind of followed the same lines. Even though the majority of citizens and local leaders wanted a new arena someplace else, our government leaders decided to put it where they wanted to. The location raised the project cost by over $75,000,000.

It's time somebody makes the local government follow the rules.

Bid to raze arena site awarded
Original company to proceed with job
By Marcus Green • magreen@courier-journal.com • June 10, 2008

The Cincinnati company originally selected to raze buildings for a downtown arena was chosen yesterday to complete the job, despite objections from competing firms.

A Louisville Arena Authority committee awarded the bid to O'Rourke Wrecking.

Authority Chairman Jim Host said the company would resume work tomorrow, with the full authority making a decision later this month. He cited a Kentucky Finance Cabinet decision from March indicating that it was in the state's best interest to keep the project moving forward.

"It's very clear that they feel that any disruption in the schedule could cause irreparable harm to the commonwealth and to the University of Louisville," the arena's main tenant, Host said.

The committee gave O'Rourke 93 points out of a possible 100. Dore & Associates Contracting of Bay City, Mich., which declined to interview in person, received 74.5 points, according to a bid sheet Host provided to The Courier-Journal yesterday.

O'Rourke's bid of $2.3 million was lower than Dore & Associates' $2.4 million bid, although Chairman Art Dore Sr. said his company didn't make a comprehensive bid because it wasn't granted full access to the site. Arena officials deny that claim.

Host said the committee, which also included authority members Dan Ulmer, William Summers V and Executive Director Harold Workman, president of the Kentucky State Fair Board, chose O'Rourke because of its price, safety record and minority hiring goals.

The selection caps the authority's hurried, roughly two-week process to seek new bids for removing a Louisville Gas & Electric power station and former Humana office building at Second and Main streets. But it doesn't end more than three months of controversy over how the authority hired its demolition contractor.

CRS Demolition of Louisville and Dore & Associates sent letters to the authority complaining that the process was unfair, and officials with both companies say they may consider filing lawsuits.

Arena officials were forced to seek new bids after the Finance Cabinet ruled in late May that the authority allowed O'Rourke to change the terms of the demolition. CRS and Dore each protested that change.

That approach included taking down a garage adjacent to the former Humana building, rather than leaving it intact. Dore & Associates and CRS Demolition had complained they were not given the chance to add the garage demolition to their proposals.

Host acknowledged yesterday that the arena authority erred by not changing the scope of the project during the first round of bidding, but he noted that other companies also suggested the same approach as O'Rourke.

Dore & Associates had been invited to interview yesterday but decided not to make the trip to Louisville.

In a letter sent to the authority, Dore said his company wasn't given complete access to tour the site before making its bid. O'Rourke had been working on the site until last week -- even after the Finance Cabinet's ruling.

Host denied those claims yesterday, citing a letter from arena authority adviser Godsey Asbestos Consultants saying that Dore & Associates and CRS Demolition both were granted access to all parts of the site they requested.

Rick Godsey documented the site visits done before the contract was rebid last Wednesday. His notes show that, for example, a CRS Demolition official did not request to see the former Humana building beyond its first floor.

"That is absolutely false," said Daryl Brown, CRS vice president.

Host also said CRS officials approached arena authority general counsel Mark Sommer last week and requested a partnership with O'Rourke on the bid, as well as a "business" solution to the issue that included the hiring of CRS workers.

Brown denied those claims.

CRS did not bid in the second round and filed a letter explaining why it disputed the process.

For his part, Dore also said officials at his company told him they weren't able to visit the upper Humana floors because O'Rourke had done "proprietary" work. In order for his company to make a competitive bid, Dore said, it needed to be told exactly how much work O'Rourke completed.

"They won't let you on the job and they continue to work," Dore said by telephone from the company's headquarters. "This is crazy."

Jackie Schurger, an O'Rourke vice president, did not return an e-mail yesterday seeking comment, but Godsey said Dore & Associates was given all the access it wanted.

Tommy Gumm, president of the Associated General Contractors of Kentucky, said it's common for new bids to be sought in a short period of time, often as little as one week.

Gumm, a Glasgow contractor who said he was not familiar with the arena project, said it's typical for all parties working on a construction job to ensure that all bidders have as much information as possible.

"If I was acting as the construction manager, I would definitely want as much open to the bidders as possible so that they can do a correct evaluation," he said.

O'Rourke plans to finish the demolition by November. The arena is expected to open in November 2010.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

http://thevillevoice.com/2008/06/10/guess-who-got-the-arena-demo-contract/

Guess Who Got the Arena Demo Contract?
June 10th, 2008 by rick · 1 Comment

You didn’t really think someone other than Jim Host’s hand-picked contractor had a shot during the second round of bidding on the arena demolition contract, did you?

If you read the C-J story by Marcus Green, one thing is obvious — somebody’s lying. The contract was awarded to O’Rourke and Company for a second time, this time at a price of $2.3 million, which is less than the $2.8 million contract that was awarded earlier this year. So, did the Authority save a half-mil by re-bidding, or has it already spent that much with the work O’Rourke’s already done?

Both the competitive companies, CRS Demolition of Louisville and Dore & Associates of Michigan, claim they weren’t allowed access to the construction site and couldn’t make an accurate bid. Host persuaded Rick Godsey, of the local architectural firm, to say that no one from the companies involved asked to see the whole site. Dore’s chief executive saw how it was being handled and dropped out. CRS simply filed a protest instead of a bid.

But there’s more to the story, of course.

Through an open records request to the state Finance and Administration Cabinet, I’ve obtained letters sent to Dore & Associates and CRS Demolition dated May 23, and they include language that should get someone’s attention if the arena is going to have any financial oversight whatsoever.


The letter’s purpose is inform the companies that it acknowledges their protest of the award to O’Rourke. But it also contains language that indicates the Cabinet will have no oversight of the project beginning next month:

It is the further determination of the Finance and Administration Cabinet that, after June 30, 2008, and the expiration of the current budget bill, HB 380, the Cabinet shall not be the appropriate entity to entertain protests pursuant to KRS 45A.285. It is the recommendation of the Cabinet that the LAA conceive and fashion its own procurement review and protest process, with independent oversight, consistent with the provisions of KRS Chapter 45A and common practice regarding entities similar to the LAA that receive public dollars. . .

In other words, the Authority can set up its own system, and could dismiss protests from losing contractors any way it sees fit.

There’s at least another $400 million in public money that Jim Host’s Arena Authority will have responsibility for awarding, and believe me, those guys have lots of friends who want favors.

Hebert’ s going to interview Host on Wednesday, so we’re dropping a little suggestion here that he ask about who’s going to be providing oversight on the project, since the Finance Cabinet is, as of July 1, out of that business.

The letter suggests that the Authority provide its own “procurement and review” process, with “independent” oversight. That’s a good one. With the track record of this bunch, let’s just say we’re not confident the process will be fair.

http://thevillevoice.com/2008/06/10/guess-who-got-the-arena-demo-contract/

Guess Who Got the Arena Demo Contract?
June 10th, 2008 by rick · 1 Comment

You didn’t really think someone other than Jim Host’s hand-picked contractor had a shot during the second round of bidding on the arena demolition contract, did you?

If you read the C-J story by Marcus Green, one thing is obvious — somebody’s lying. The contract was awarded to O’Rourke and Company for a second time, this time at a price of $2.3 million, which is less than the $2.8 million contract that was awarded earlier this year. So, did the Authority save a half-mil by re-bidding, or has it already spent that much with the work O’Rourke’s already done?

Both the competitive companies, CRS Demolition of Louisville and Dore & Associates of Michigan, claim they weren’t allowed access to the construction site and couldn’t make an accurate bid. Host persuaded Rick Godsey, of the local architectural firm, to say that no one from the companies involved asked to see the whole site. Dore’s chief executive saw how it was being handled and dropped out. CRS simply filed a protest instead of a bid.

But there’s more to the story, of course.

Through an open records request to the state Finance and Administration Cabinet, I’ve obtained letters sent to Dore & Associates and CRS Demolition dated May 23, and they include language that should get someone’s attention if the arena is going to have any financial oversight whatsoever.


The letter’s purpose is inform the companies that it acknowledges their protest of the award to O’Rourke. But it also contains language that indicates the Cabinet will have no oversight of the project beginning next month:

It is the further determination of the Finance and Administration Cabinet that, after June 30, 2008, and the expiration of the current budget bill, HB 380, the Cabinet shall not be the appropriate entity to entertain protests pursuant to KRS 45A.285. It is the recommendation of the Cabinet that the LAA conceive and fashion its own procurement review and protest process, with independent oversight, consistent with the provisions of KRS Chapter 45A and common practice regarding entities similar to the LAA that receive public dollars. . .

In other words, the Authority can set up its own system, and could dismiss protests from losing contractors any way it sees fit.

There’s at least another $400 million in public money that Jim Host’s Arena Authority will have responsibility for awarding, and believe me, those guys have lots of friends who want favors.

Hebert’ s going to interview Host on Wednesday, so we’re dropping a little suggestion here that he ask about who’s going to be providing oversight on the project, since the Finance Cabinet is, as of July 1, out of that business.

The letter suggests that the Authority provide its own “procurement and review” process, with “independent” oversight. That’s a good one. With the track record of this bunch, let’s just say we’re not confident the process will be fair.

Somebody is lying. I just want to know when contractor's became the honest parties. My guess is, somewhere in the middle is the truth. However, I will withold my libel until I have the truth on my side.

Imagine that, the handpicked contractor got the bid again! Just politics as usual in Louisville, Mayor Jerry and his gang just do what they want without any concern for their constituency nor for rules.

Imagine that, the handpicked contractor got the bid again! Just politics as usual in Louisville, Mayor Jerry and his gang just do what they want without any concern for their constituency nor for rules.

You don't know that.

You don't know that.

Don't know what?

I do know that the high bidder who didn't meet the bid specifications got the contract in the first round. And during the rebid the other bidders were not allowed to inspect the building because of "proprietary" work that had already been done.

I also know that our local political leadership don't respect the opinions of their constituents or else the arena wouldn't be being built where it is being built. I can also point out many other situations where the political leaders have gone back on their word, city-county merger for instance.

Of course we're getting off topic here, the only relationship to the topic is that the project is being slowed down because of the Arena Authority and their inept handling of contracts. I can't wait until they start awarding big contracts and the state no longer has any control over them.

Don't know what?

I do know that the high bidder who didn't meet the bid specifications got the contract in the first round. And during the rebid the other bidders were not allowed to inspect the building because of "proprietary" work that had already been done.

I also know that our local political leadership don't respect the opinions of their constituents or else the arena wouldn't be being built where it is being built. I can also point out many other situations where the political leaders have gone back on their word, city-county merger for instance.

Of course we're getting off topic here, the only relationship to the topic is that the project is being slowed down because of the Arena Authority and their inept handling of contracts. I can't wait until they start awarding big contracts and the state no longer has any control over them.


First, if the contracts for such a complex job was only awarded to the low bidder, this arena would be so far over budget and come in so late it wouldn't be funny. Low-bid lump sum contracts work great for running a sewer. But not building an arena.

Second, you are taking a CONTRACTOR at his word when it comes to the site inspection. I'm not saying the Arena Authority is without blame, but it is utterly ridiculous to believe a spurned contractor without any suspicion. Generally, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Third, just because you did not want an arena at this site doesn't mean that the community didn't want it at this site. And, given the other downtown location has a $250 million private investment planned gives the local leadership a bit of credibility in pushing this site.

I do not find the Arena Authority inept. And, until some proof is handed over that they are conducting back-door deals and receiving kick-backs, I will withhold my judgment. Building an arena is not like pouring a sidewalk. You can not just hand over the contract to the lowest bidder. Well, you can, but you won't be sitting in an arena until 2015.

... I do not find the Arena Authority inept. And, until some proof is handed over that they are conducting back-door deals and receiving kick-backs, ....

Then how do you explain that the demolition contractor selected was going to demo the Humana parking garage which the bid specifications said was to be saved. Also the selected contractor was going to use explosives demolition which also was outside of the bid specification.

Also, the fact that this project has a special exemption so it will not be reviewed by the state budget and control board is extremely unusual. I certainly don't like the fact that the Arena Authority will be spending such a large chunk of public money with no oversight!

As far as the site goes none of the public polls I saw preferred the site selected. Probably because of the $75,000,000 of additional expenses just to relocate what was on the site. Needless to say the relocation was a sweet deal for LG&E since they got their antiquated equipment replaced with new equipment at no cost to themselves. Another possible reason people didn't like the site selected was the lack of adequate parking in the area but of course with rising gas prices we won't be driving there anyway.

I'm not against the arena (unless attempts are made to bring a NBA team to it) but I am definitely against the way a lot of the process has been handled.

"I'm not against the arena (unless attempts are made to bring a NBA team to it) but I am definitely against the way a lot of the process has been handled." - Msradell

Why would you be against atempts to bring an NBA team to the arena? That would fill the arena about 50 more times per year. You need to have events in the arena to help pay for it. Would you be against attempts to bring a hockey team there? An arena league football team? The Ice Capades?

"I'm not against the arena (unless attempts are made to bring a NBA team to it) but I am definitely against the way a lot of the process has been handled." - Msradell

Why would you be against atempts to bring an NBA team to the arena? That would fill the arena about 50 more times per year. You need to have events in the arena to help pay for it. Would you be against attempts to bring a hockey team there? An arena league football team? The Ice Capades?

I'm against an NBA team being brought to Louisville for several reasons. To start with they would make all kinds of demands and lots of money to come here. I'm sure they would demand a large cut of the ticket and concession income (if not all of it) so in reality the arena would make little or nothing from the team being here. NBA ticket prices are so high that normal citizens of Louisville couldn't afford to go to games. And lastly, NBA players are nothing but spoiled brats and would contribute nothing to the community.

I'd love to see NHL or arena football since they are much less demanding and much more community oriented in their outlook. You don't see teams in either of these leagues making demands and threatening to move on a regular basis like you do NBA, NFL or MLB teams. As for the Ice Capades they are brought to town by a sponsor who pays to be able to have use of the arena so there is guaranteed income for the owners.

Msrandell you are very, very uninformed about the NBA. I looked up UofL ticket prices and a lot of similar NBA seats are cheaper than UofL seats. There are a some really expensive NBA seats, but only very few.

Secondly NBA teams do all sorts of great things for the community, as do other professional teams. You would be amazed at how active they are in the community.

Thirdly you also seem very uninformed about NHL franchises, they threaten to move all the time. Here in Nashville one of the Canadian teams was threatening to move here (I think the team in Edmonton) before we got an expansion franchise, and there have been talks about moving the Preds and they havent been here that long. Carolina got a team that relocated, the Minnesota team moved to Dallas before St.Paul got a new franchise, the Penguins were going to move until they got a new arena deal recently. And the teams in Phoenix and Denver relocated to those two cities about 10-15 years ago. NHL has far more teams that have relocated than any of the other major sports leagues.

When you get a clue post again, until then stop spreading inaccuracies as fact.

Msrandell you are very, very uninformed about the NBA. I looked up UofL ticket prices and a lot of similar NBA seats are cheaper than UofL seats. There are a some really expensive NBA seats, but only very few.

Secondly NBA teams do all sorts of great things for the community, as do other professional teams. You would be amazed at how active they are in the community.

Thirdly you also seem very uninformed about NHL franchises, they threaten to move all the time. Here in Nashville one of the Canadian teams was threatening to move here (I think the team in Edmonton) before we got an expansion franchise, and there have been talks about moving the Preds and they havent been here that long. Carolina got a team that relocated, the Minnesota team moved to Dallas before St.Paul got a new franchise, the Penguins were going to move until they got a new arena deal recently. And the teams in Phoenix and Denver relocated to those two cities about 10-15 years ago. NHL has far more teams that have relocated than any of the other major sports leagues.

When you get a clue post again, until then stop spreading inaccuracies as fact.

unfortunately, she represnents the "lowest common denominator" type citizen in this city, and that is one of the things that irks me about it around here. If I had to bet, I would guess shes lived in the city her whole life (or relocated here from a small KY town), is in her 30s or 40s with kids, and lives in the south end.

i say amen, bring on the nba, it would do wonders for downtown and the city. if you dont like it, dont go. there are many others that do and many who leave everyday bc louisville doesnt have those kind of amenities. louisville can easily afford it and their are multiple scientific studies that prove it. http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2004/10/04/story2.html just look at memphis which is identical in size and, is a city with much more crime and a more blighted overall city. Then see that their downtown is more vibrant and their growth is higher. it could have been the louisville grizzlies. trust me it was close.

I would personally rather see an NFL team here, but that's just because I like football better, NBA would work too, but we have to admit, their reputation is not what it used to be. I do think they are making strides to clear that up. I have a friend who is a server and recently waited on several members of the Arena Authority. They were talking very seriously about an NBA team in the new arena. The only problem I can see is UofL. And yes ticket prices for football and basketball tend to be on average higher than even the Pro's. Especially for season tickets. For the new section of PPJS the lowest "donation" was $7500 per seat, plus the actual cost of the seats. As much of a UofL fan that I am, they really need to get out of city politics.

[QUOTE=Msradell;21642229]Don't know what?

I also know that our local political leadership don't respect the opinions of their constituents or else the arena wouldn't be being built where it is being built. I can also point out many other situations where the political leaders have gone back on their word, city-county merger for instance.
QUOTE]

Have you not heard of the City Center project? I have no doubt that is the very reason why the mayor was so against building the arena at the Water Company Block, which was a very good decision economically. Do you think Cordish would build the same thing at the LG&E sight? Yes it was more expensive the the return on investment including Cordish's plans will be much greater.

"Have you not heard of the City Center project? I have no doubt that is the very reason why the mayor was so against building the arena at the Water Company Block, which was a very good decision economically. Do you think Cordish would build the same thing at the LG&E sight? Yes it was more expensive the the return on investment including Cordish's plans will be much greater."

I totally agree Card 04. By choosing the riverfront property the city opened the water company block for further development. It was a good choice that we will all appreciate later.

"Have you not heard of the City Center project? I have no doubt that is the very reason why the mayor was so against building the arena at the Water Company Block, which was a very good decision economically. Do you think Cordish would build the same thing at the LG&E sight? Yes it was more expensive the the return on investment including Cordish's plans will be much greater."

I totally agree Card 04. By choosing the riverfront property the city opened the water company block for further development. It was a good choice that we will all appreciate later.
Only the future will tell if it was a good choice or not. There are several "ifs" that still need to fall in place for it to be a good choice. First of all the arena needs to be self supporting and not require an annual Louisville contribution to make its operating budget. Secondly City Center really needs to happen. If and only if these two things happen will it be viewed as a good choice in the future.

Only the future will tell if it was a good choice or not. There are several "ifs" that still need to fall in place for it to be a good choice. First of all the arena needs to be self supporting and not require an annual Louisville contribution to make its operating budget. Secondly City Center really needs to happen. If and only if these two things happen will it be viewed as a good choice in the future.

Who pissed in your cornflakes? :ohno: :bash:

Who pissed in your cornflakes? :ohno: :bash:

I'm just trying to look at things realistically. I've lived too many places were great plans end up costing the citizens an awful lot in taxes. Government should become a little less involved in expanding its infrastructure and instead should worry about maintaining what it has!

unfortunately, she represnents the "lowest common denominator" type citizen in this city, and that is one of the things that irks me about it around here. If I had to bet, I would guess shes lived in the city her whole life (or relocated here from a small KY town), is in her 30s or 40s with kids, and lives in the south end.

You're not even close on any of your guesses (including the fact I'm female). Maybe you should worry a little more about your grammar and spelling and less sabout others so you don't look like you're so uneducated, which you probably are anyway based on your assumptions.

I'm just trying to look at things realistically. I've lived too many places were great plans end up costing the citizens an awful lot in taxes. Government should become a little less involved in expanding its infrastructure and instead should worry about maintaining what it has!

By investing in downtown and drawing people closer to the city core, there will be less need for more infastructure in the suburbs. I agree government should be concerned with maintaining what it has, but there is a little thing called investment. Even if for some reason city center were to fall through, which isn't looking to be the case, it would be much easier to attract investment there than in the LGE site, because it is more expensive.

By investing in downtown and drawing people closer to the city core, there will be less need for more infastructure in the suburbs. I agree government should be concerned with maintaining what it has, but there is a little thing called investment. Even if for some reason city center were to fall through, which isn't looking to be the case, it would be much easier to attract investment there than in the LGE site, because it is more expensive.

With the current economic conditions government can't afford excessive spending either since they have so many pressing financial needs. Industry have deeper pockets in many cases and since one of our major businesses that is based downtown (Humana) is looking for additional office space they would have been a good candidate to develop the LG&E site. People need to realize that development needs to come from the private sector not the public sector if we are to grow responsibly. Public money should only be used to attract private investment.

Regardless of whether you thought the arena was a good idea or not, or what site you wanted, the fact is that it's approved for the waterfront site now. The goal from everyone in the community should be to help see it get build as quickly, cheaply, and as well as possible.

I don't agree with every decision we make in the office either. But when the decision is made, the team has to get behind.

The goal from everyone in the community should be to help see it get build as quickly, cheaply, and as well as possible.
We've now gone 360° back to where we started and my original problem with how the demolition contract was awarded. As you stated we need to ensure that it has done as economically as possible. The fact that the Arena Board awarded the contract to the highest bidder certainly doesn't give me warm fuzzies that the whole project will be done economically.

I agree on that point. The contracting process isn't passing the smell test at present.

Anybody know where to find the new renders?

Arena authority approves plan to sell bondsBusiness First of Louisville - by John R. Karman III Business First Staff Writer

The Louisville Arena Authority Inc. approved a plan at its monthly meeting this morning to sell $360 million in bonds to finance construction of the planned downtown arena.

The authority is scheduled to price the bonds the first week of July and hopes to close on their sale the week of July 14, according to authority chairman Jim Host.

Money would be in the bank for the project by mid-July. The $249 million arena is being built at Second and Main streets and will have the University of Louisville's men's and women's basketball teams as its primary tenants.

The bond issue includes $280 million in variable-rate bonds that will be swapped to fixed-rate bonds at a later time, nearly $40 million in tax-exempt, fixed-rate bonds, $30 million in taxable, fixed-rate bonds and about $10 million in sub-debt bonds.

The total anticipated interest cost for the bonds is projected to be 5.89 percent. The bonds will be insured by Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Ltd.

Total debt service estimated at $598 million
Total debt service for the project is estimated at $598.8 million, based on current market conditions, according to Tom Rousakis, vice president of public sector and infrastructure banking for New York City-based Goldman Sachs Group Inc., the arena authority's bond underwriter.

Debt service would be paid off over a period of more than three decades.

In May, Goldman Sachs projected the total costs of principle and interest on the bonds at $602 million. The firm put the estimate at $573 million in January 2007.

PNC leading syndicate of banks
In addition, Host said that a syndicate of nine banks with offices in Louisville has joined together to provide liquidity for the variable-rate bonds should the authority need to buy them back before they reach maturity.

The syndicate is led by PNC Bank and includes BB&T Corp., Central Bank, Chase, Fifth Third, National City, Old National, Stock Yards Bank & Trust Co. and U.S. Bank.

Host expressed confidence that the bonds will sell quickly and said today's approval of the finance plan marks a culmination of more than three years of work by the arena authority.

Louisville Metro Council President Jim King, a nonvoting member of the arena authority, praised Host for his diligence in putting together the financing package.

Still, he called for a review of projected arena revenues before moving forward with the bond sale. The authority agreed, and Host said he welcomed the review.

The review will be conducted by Louisville accounting firm Mountjoy & Bressler LLP, the authority's financial adviser. It is expected to be complete next week.

Fountain is centerpiece of plaza
In other arena authority news, Kansas City, Mo.-based HOK Sport, the architectural firm handling the arena's design, unveiled new renderings of the building's interior and of a public plaza planned along Main Street, near the entrance to the facility.

The one-and-a-half acre plaza will be located along Main Street between Second and Third streets. Its centerpiece will be a 45-jet fountain designed in the shape of a basketball.

Each of the jets contains lights programmed to illuminate the fountain in a range of color schemes.

The plaza also will offer viewing of an 18-foot-by-32-foot videoboard, mounted on the arena roof.

David Reed, a landscape architect with the Louisville firm QK4, said the "primary theme" of movement and references to the Ohio River, both of which are incorporated into the arena design, also were used in creating the look of the plaza.

QK4 worked with HOK and Louisville's Downtown Development Corp. on the plaza design.

Interior features 14,000-square-foot lobby
HOK's interior renderings for the 717,000-square-foot, 22,000-seat arena show a 14,000-square-foot grand lobby with high ceilings, terrazzo flooring and large glass windows looking over the plaza and parts of downtown.

A restaurant and sports bar is planned at the rear of the main concourse, overlooking the river. It would seat 600.

The arena has 71 suites, 70 loge boxes, four party suites and about 3,000 club seats, which recently went on sale.

Host said construction plans remain on schedule.

Demolition of structures on the planned arena block is expected to be completed by the end of August, with construction of the arena beginning in earnest in September.

A 26-month build-out is planned, which would have the arena ready for a scheduled debut in November 2010.


Contact the writer at jkarman@bizjournals.com.

here's a link to the new renders from the CJ. There's 28 of them.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=B2&Date=20080623&Category=MULTIMEDIA&ArtNo=806230807&Ref=PH&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Maybe I'm being too much of an engineer but how in the world with a final price for this project given before the building was ever designed? Was a price picked and then the building designed to that price or Was there enough load factor built into the original cost that now the developer is busy adding bells and whistles to use all the money? I'm thinking of the fancy fountain and light show that will be in front of the building according to this latest set of plans. Seems like that's an awful lot of money (I'm sure well over $1,000,000) that doesn't make the arena any better. Hopefully there will be tight Financial Accounting showing where the true costs of this building go. Hopefully better financial control will be exhibited than for the demolition part of the project.

The plaza looks great. Alas, much of basketball season is not in great weather and the trees won't have those nice leaves and the fountains won't be on. But especially for summer and early fall events, it should be great. I'd expect it to become a regular gathering place.

The arena itself is of a very disappointing design. Alderman Dan Johnson showed me a set of renderings for a downtown arena years ago that were much better. At this price tag, I'd be expecting Museum Plaza quality.

Arena contract dispute brewing
Engineering firm says process unfair
By Marcus Green • magreen@courier-journal.com • July 2, 2008

A Louisville engineering firm is alleging that the company overseeing the construction planning of the downtown arena improperly awarded a contract for excavation, utilities and foundation work.

RAM Engineering & Construction claims it wasn't able to compete fairly after construction manager M.A. Mortenson Co. changed the bidding process. Minneapolis-based Mortenson denies the claim.

"Mortenson believes that it has carte blanche to do what it wants relative to any bid under its control," said W.W. "Tinker" Chilton III, RAM Engineering's vice president.

At issue is the transparency of Mortenson's process of awarding contracts for the project at Second and Main streets.

So far, arena officials have denied RAM Engineering's request to review its competitors' proposals because they don't have the documents.

Louisville Arena Authority chairman Jim Host said Mortenson must decide whether to make its contracts public. Mortenson construction executive Allen Troshinsky said yesterday that his company will keep contract proposals and details confidential.

Mortenson declined to act on RAM's protest, and the Kentucky Finance Cabinet hasn't issued a ruling.

The arena authority chose Mortenson last year to be its "construction manager-at-risk." Under that method, Mortenson would ensure the arena's maximum price before construction begins and be liable for any cost overruns. That price now stands at $249 million.

Mortenson also is aiming to ensure that at least 20 percent of the arena project's employees and contractors are minorities and at least 5 percent are women, and that 75 percent of the project's jobs are set aside for Kentucky and Indiana residents.

"We, Mortenson, have guaranteed the price of the arena and thereafter … the burden is on us to go out and procure the work and bring the project in on budget," Troshinsky said yesterday.

But Mortenson's plans to keep the arena contracts private runs counter to the intent of the Kentucky General Assembly when it approved $75 million in state bonds for the project two years ago, said Rep. Joni Jenkins, chairwoman of the Jefferson County legislative delegation.

Under the bill approving the funds, lawmakers required the authority to follow the state's open-records and open-meetings laws. Jenkins, D-Shively, said legislators wanted to make all documents related to the project publicly accessible.

"We wanted to be sure that, because they were using public money, that they would follow all the other rules that any public building would follow," she said.

Host said the authority has no role in Mortenson's selection of subcontractors other than to review the minority- and local-employment goals. Mortenson's contract with the arena authority says it will "make a recommendation to the Authority for award of the applicable subcontract."

Chilton said it's clear that the authority will have oversight of any awards Mortenson makes.

"If the authority has complete overview, so does John Q. Public," Chilton said. "That has not been the case, from what I can tell."

The state money also required the authority to follow state procurement laws. But Mortenson and Mark Sommer, the authority's general counsel, argue that those laws don't address subcontracts by a "construction manager-at-risk."

Troshinsky wrote in an e-mail to Chilton that "the award of subcontracts by Mortenson is not actually subject to the public procurement laws of the Commonwealth," according to documents included in RAM's protest and obtained by The Courier-Journal through an open-records request.

State law is vague on how the "construction manager-at-risk" method deals with subcontractors, said Dall Clark, the University of Kentucky's director of capital project management.

"It's really silent on it. You could probably make the argument that the construction manager could do all the bidding," he said.

Kentucky law also requires agencies to submit a "construction manager-at-risk" contract to the state's Government Contract Review Committee. No such contract was submitted, according to the committee.

RAM objected to Mortenson's selection of the Veit construction company, based in Rogers, Minn., to perform the excavation and other site work.

The price of the contract and the proposals of competing bidders are not known.

Troshinsky said yesterday that Mortenson would not supply the records to the newspaper or release details of other contracts.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

Arena contract dispute brewing
Engineering firm says process unfair
By Marcus Green • magreen@courier-journal.com • July 2, 2008

A Louisville engineering firm is alleging that the company overseeing the construction planning of the downtown arena improperly awarded a contract for excavation, utilities and foundation work.

........
Here we go again! The arena authority is doing everything it can to circumvent the rules laid it down for it. They are acting just like city government's "good old boy network" giving contracts to whenever bidder they want to. Hopefully this time the results will be better than they were for the demolition contract where the authority still got its way.

I also don't understand how an "At Risk" can be awarded before the design is completed. Seems like the contractor could walk away with a huge profit margin or the design of the building could be compromised in order to meet the budget. I'm also not sure why a contractor will never accept this type of contract without knowing the final design (unless he had inside knowledge). It seems like a much better approach would have been to award the contract to a local reputable contractor and have them work completed on a "Cost Plus" basis with all records being public. That way there certainly wouldn't be any thoughts of back door deals.

http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2008/07/14/story2.html?b=1216008000^1667668

A financing deal that a lot of people doubted would ever happen is neared its conclusion last week in New York City.

Jim Host, chairman of the Louisville Arena Authority Inc., has been there for several days, participating in a series of meetings that started Wednesday at the offices of Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

The meetings, which are scheduled to wrap up today, July 11, are being held to price the $360 million in bonds needed to finance construction of Louisville's planned downtown arena. Goldman Sachs is the arena authority's bond underwriter.

Host expects the authority to close on the sale of the bonds in the next week, and he's so confident that he's rescheduled this month's arena authority meeting to accommodate some of the state's most important leaders.

If all goes as planned, Goldman Sachs will present the $360 million in proceeds from the sale of bonds to the arena authority at a 1:30 p.m. meeting on Wednesday, July 23, at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear, Louisville Metro Mayor Jerry Abramson, University of Louisville President James Ramsey and representatives of several area banks involved in the arena project are expected to be there, according to Host.

"I think all systems as of right now are 100 percent on the go side of the ledger," Host said in a Wednesday telephone interview. "I don't see any impediments right as of today."

Bond insurance troubles nearly killed financing plan
For Host and the other 15 volunteer members of the authority, completion of the arena financing deal has been a long time coming.

Plans have been in the works for nearly three years to build a multiuse arena downtown at Second and Main streets. The $249 million, 22,000-seat facility would have U of L's men's and women's basketball teams as its primary tenants.

But an arena financing plan -- and quite possibly the entire project -- looked to be in jeopardy earlier this year when Ambac Financial Group Inc., the company the arena authority hired to insure the bonds, lost its top-flight rating after being hard hit by the subprime mortgage crisis.

As a result, the bond insurer proposed a financing plan that Host described as "untenable."

After much wrangling and hand-wringing, the arena authority was able to sign a deal in May with Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Ltd., a bond insurer with a AAA rating, that agreed to insure a bond structure with a combination of fixed- and variable-rate bonds.

Review affirms revenue projections
The bond issue includes $280 million in variable-rate bonds that will be swapped to fixed-rate bonds at a later time; nearly $40 million in tax-exempt, fixed-rate bonds; $30 million in taxable, fixed-rate bonds; and about $10 million in subordinated debt.

The total anticipated interest cost for the bonds is projected to be 5.89 percent, according to Goldman Sachs officials. Total debt service is estimated at $598.8 million, based on current market conditions.

The debt service estimate was verified last week in an independent review of projected arena revenues conducted by Louisville accounting firm Mountjoy & Bressler LLP, the authority's financial adviser.

Louisville Metro Council President Jim King, a nonvoting member of the arena authority, requested the review prior to the sale of the bonds during last month's authority meeting.

King could not be reached for comment before Business First's press deadline.

LG&E to turn over property by end of August
When the authority has its money from the bond sale in the bank, work is expected to hasten on the planned arena site, a block bounded by Second, Third and Main streets and River Road.

Cincinnati-based O'Rourke Wrecking Co. has been leading a demolition effort at the site, and Louisville Gas and Electric Co. is completing the $63.1 million relocation of its downtown substation from the block. That cost was covered by the arena authority.

The substation project is on budget and ahead of schedule, according to Chip Keeling, vice president of communications for LG&E's parent company, E.On U.S.

Keeling said the company should be ready to turn the property over to the arena authority by the end of August.

He credited the experience and planning of Chicago-based Sargent & Lundy LLC for the success of the project. The Illinois firm handles consulting, engineering and project development for a variety of firms in the power-generation industry.

Host praised LG&E for its responsiveness in expediting the relocation of its substation, noting that he had been "totally uncomfortable" with that part of the project because the authority "didn't have any control" over it.

"There's no question in my mind now that they will finish it on time and on budget," he said.

No date for Humana demolition
After LG&E gives the arena authority a more firm date for the turnover of its property on the arena site, there will be an announcement of the implosion date for a former Humana Inc. office building, also located in the block.

Host wouldn't speculate on a date, but he has said in the past that it needs to happen before the end of summer.

Construction of the arena is slated to begin in earnest in September, and the authority has a strict, 26-month build-out planned so the facility can open in November 2010 for the start of U of L's basketball season.

After the demolition of the Humana building, "you'll start to see the site really start to take some shape pretty quickly," Host said.

Club seat sales strong for U of L
U of L has been selling a limited number of tickets since May, when it began offering 2,100 club seats, which are located in the lower level of the arena at side court.

Gary Friedman, U of L associate athletic director for development, declined to disclose specific costs of the seats nor would he say how many have sold.

Officials have said the prices vary on a case-by-case basis, depending on seat location and other factors.

Pricing structures for seats for U of L basketball games in other areas of the arena have not been established, and it has not been determined when those seats will go on sale.

Some of the club seats are included in 500 specialty seat packages, Friedman said. Each package includes two club seats in the new arena and four loge seats for football in Papa John's Cardinal Stadium. Only 100 of the packages remain.

Commitments received for more than 50 boxes
Friedman and Host said that U of L also has commitments for more than 50 of the 71 luxury suites for sale in the downtown arena. The suites seat 16 people and have standing room space for other guests.

Friedman said the luxury suites lease annually at a base level of $85,000 to $95,000, but they also require ownership of a suite at the U of L football stadium and carry additional costs and donation requirements.

U of L receives the proceeds from luxury suite sales and pays 12 percent to the arena authority as a rental fee.

Host said the demand for luxury boxes has been encouraging, as is the interest in arena naming rights and other sponsorship opportunities.

Last year, the arena authority tapped Rockville, Md.-based Team Services LLC to pursue a deal for naming rights, and Dallas-based Learfield Sports was selected to sell interior signage, advertising and sponsorship packages.

$25 million naming-rights deal rejected
Critics scoffed early on when Host and other arena authority members suggested that the coming arena might fetch a naming-rights price tag as high as $40 million or $50 million, but the chairman is confident a figure in that range still is attainable.

He said the authority rejected a naming-rights package valued at $25 million, although he declined to identify the company or disclose any details about the bid.

Host also would not discuss any completed sponsorship deals except to say that Papa John's International Inc. will be a pizza vendor in the new arena.

"A couple" of other sponsorship deals have been finalized, Host said, but that dimension of the project has not been a priority while the authority has been concentrating on financing and pre-construction issues.

"We didn't need to sign any contracts too early," he said. "We needed to make sure that we had the right concept, that we had the right look.

"I think you'll see us start to turn our attention now to the revenue side of the picture," he added. "The good news is we've got plenty of time before it opens."

Authority members shrug off criticism
Despite the arena project's progress, it continues to generate skepticism in some segments of the community, and that's been disappointing, according to several members of the authority.

Dan Ulmer, the authority's construction committee chairman, said he hears the talk at cocktail parties -- even among the city's business elite -- questioning the viability of the project and whether it can or will be completed on time and without driving the city into serious debt.

He shrugs off the cynicism, saying that Louisville traditionally has had its share of naysayers.

Ulmer, chairman of the Louisville Bats baseball team and retired chairman of PNC Bank, Kentucky Inc., said he heard the same doubts when Louisville Slugger Field was being built east of downtown.

Today, the 8-year-old baseball facility is considered a great success, and it is largely credited with helping spark the revitalization of the East Main and East Market street corridors.

Still considered a catalyst
Host believes the planned arena will be a similar catalyst for the city's downtown core.

To back up his opinion, he pointed to the success of the upscale Jeff Ruby's Steakhouse at the Galt House Hotel & Suites.

Jeff Ruby, the Cincinnati-based restaurateur, has said he chose the location because of its proximity to the arena site.

Host said plans for another downtown eatery, Z's Fusion, in the space that formerly housed Kunz's restaurant on South Fourth Street, is another positive sign.

The authority chairman also expressed optimism that other proposed downtown mega-projects -- such as Museum Plaza, Iron Quarter and the planned Embassy Suites Hotel -- will move forward as the economy improves.

"I think Louisville is on the cusp of becoming a truly, truly great city," Host said. "What we're doing is really going to, I think, help further revolutionize downtown. I just think we're going to see so many things happen with the downtown as a result of this."

Stars 'aligned' to keep project on track
Bruce Traughber, director of economic development for Louisville-Jefferson County Metro Government, believes that those mega-projects and others will progress as the national economy, and especially the bond market, improves.

"The spinoff potential is still there," he said. "It'll come. The economy goes in cycles."

Traughber said he believes the arena project has not been derailed during the financing stage because such facilities are known entities, understood by investors, unlike a mixed-use project such as Museum Plaza.

Traughber and Host also credited local and state governmental leaders and authority members for keeping the project on track.

"The stars just got aligned," Traughber said.



Send comments to jkarman@bizjournals.com

The Humana building will be imploded Saturday July 19th at 7:00 AM according to information issued today. Several downtown viewing areas will be available but approximately two blocks in each direction will be cordoned off. :banana:

Here's the Business First article: Article (http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2008/07/14/daily6.html)

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080719/NEWS01/80719002&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Apparently there have been some rumblings that the bond ratings are being downgraded due to AGO falling apart and that things may not go as smoothly as anticipated. Has anyone heard anything?

Apparently there have been some rumblings that the bond ratings are being downgraded due to AGO falling apart and that things may not go as smoothly as anticipated. Has anyone heard anything?

How prophetic, orangecard! Are you really Jerry Abramson?

Why is this listed in the thread title as having prep work started? Has it? That seems a little strange considering the financing hasn't been approved yet. Just curious.

Why is this listed in the thread title as having prep work started? Has it? That seems a little strange considering the financing hasn't been approved yet. Just curious.

Absolutely, prep work has started, Garfield. The state and city each contributed $75 million that has been used to purchase buildings from Humana and e.on (LG&E) and implode and bulldoze them, respectfully. Also, for the latter, the Arena Authority had to relocate an electrical substation housed in the facility prior to doing so. The remaining requisite financing and resulting bond issue by the Arena Authority is for the construction of the arena on the cleared site. Much progress has already been made (and needs to have been) for the scheduled Fall 2010 completion of the new arena.

yeah ^^^ i drive past it everyday...

Thanks Real --- I guess I had just been reading about the recent financial issues and hadn't focused on the many things that have been going on during the previous summer months. I guess we are getting close to the date when the financial plan is supposed to be (re)announced. Isn't it the 28th? They better have some positive news to pass on. If not - I have a feeling it could be a bad sign and could mean a few more months at least. I hope that doesn't happen. We'll soon find out.

Some interesting news on the arena. They talk about the arena towards the end of this article.

http://www.bondbuyer.com/article.html?id=2008082547Q0TQLS

Cost of arena drops to $238 millionBusiness First of Louisville - by John R. Karman III Staff Writer

The cost to construct the city’s planned downtown arena has decreased again, and work continues to inch forward on completion of a long-sought financing package for the project.

The reduced price was announced at an Aug. 28 meeting of the Louisville Arena Authority Inc. at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

Officials with M.A. Mortenson Co., the Minneapolis-based construction manager for the project, now say that the final guaranteed maximum price to build the 22,000-seat facility is $238 million.

Previous prices for the arena set by Mortenson were $249 million in February and $254 million in September 2007.

Bidding led to favorable pricing
John Wood, senior vice president and a partner with the Minnesota firm, said the savings have been achieved because a high level of interest in the project from subcontractors submitting bids led to favorable pricing for many dimensions of the work.

In addition, projections of tax-increment financing revenues, a key component in paying down debt on the arena bonds, are ahead of original income estimates.

The $238 million price tag includes a $6 million contingency for the arena authority to make adjustments and enhancements as it sees fit. It also contains a $5.2 million contingency for Mortenson to cover such things as unforeseen expenses associated with the arena’s construction.

Wood said Mortenson is “very satisfied” with where the final price stands.

Arena authority chairman Jim Host praised Wood and his team for their efforts to cut the cost, noting that no elements of the project have been scaled back to save money.

“Nothing’s been compromised in this building,” he said.

Authority expects money Sept. 3
Host added that the news of the price reduction creates “one of the truly great days” in the authority’s history because it allows the project’s sometimes sticky financing plan to advance.

Once again, that plan has not been finalized but appears to be nearing its completion. However, previous financing plans have been close to being wrapped up only to unravel at the last minute.

Host said in an interview after the authority meeting that $343 million in revenue bonds for the project have been priced and sold. They will be delivered next week.

If there are no unexpected last-minute changes in market conditions, proceeds will be wired to the authority next Wednesday, Sept. 3.

Host has called a special meeting of the authority for 3 p.m. Sept. 3, also at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

Host declined, in the interview, to discuss the structure of the financing package or to disclose the amount of the bonds that are fixed-rate and the amount of the bonds that are variable-rate. Those details won’t be available until next week, he said.

Moody’s had issued positive rating
In a research report issued last week, the credit-rating agency Moody’s Investors Service Inc. said that the arena authority’s plan called for the sale of $329 million in bonds, all at a fixed rate.

Debt service on the entire arena project has been estimated at about $600 million.

New York City-based Moody’s assigned a Baa3 or “stable” rating to the bonds. The rating is the lowest investment-grade rating given by the agency.

Host said Moody’s rating last week was an initial one and does not reflect the final financing package.

The arena authority has been struggling for most of the year to secure financing for the downtown project, primarily because of uncertainty and upheaval in the national credit markets.

A plan to sell $360 million in both fixed- and variable-rate construction bonds was put on hold in July after Moody’s put Bermuda-based bond insurer Assured Guaranty Ltd. on negative watch, signaling a likely rating downgrade.

Assured Guaranty has been the arena authority’s choice to insure the bonds.

News of the possible downgrade sent officials with the arena authority and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. scrambling to find a new financing plan. Goldman Sachs is the authority’s bond insurer.

The process of trying to finalize a new plan has included discussions with at least nine different banks with headquarters or operations in Louisville.

A group of nine banks — led by PNC Bank — previously had formed a consortium to back the authority’s bond financing plan. The banks had pledged to provide money to allow the authority to buy back bonds, if necessary, before they reached maturity.

It is unclear what role the local banks might play in the final financing plan.

Demolition work ongoing
Host has said that a financing plan needs to be in place by the end of September so that construction can begin and the arena project can stay on track in what is a tight, 26-month building schedule.

The arena, which is planned for the downtown block bounded by Second, Third and Main streets and River Road, is slated for a November 2010 debut.

Its primary tenants would be the University of Louisville’s men’s and women’s basketball teams.

Demolition of existing structures on the arena block has been ongoing this summer.

A former Humana Inc. office building was imploded in July. Cleanup of debris is nearly complete.

Demolition of a former Louisville Gas and Electric Co. power substation is well under way and proceeding on schedule and on budget, according to John Hilkene, a partner with San Antonio, Texas-based PC Sports LLC, program manager for the arena project.

The power station has been moved across Third Street from the arena site in what is a $63.1 million project, paid for by the arena authority with proceeds from a $75 million bond issue from the state.

The arena board approved the new financing package yesterday. The total cost of the project has dropped another nine million dollars due to the economic climate as has the total finance cost. Everything is now at a fixed rate instead of variable.

Here's a link to this story: Arena Finance Plan Approved (http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=8947061)

I was searching the Building Permits on the city's website and saw that the permit for the arena garage was issued with an address of 201 W. Main St. This is exciting.

$650,000 contract awarded on downtown arena project (http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20081028/NEWS01/810280405/1008/NEWS01)
By Sheldon S. Shafer, Courier-Journal, October 28, 2008

The Louisville Arena Authority yesterday awarded one of the last major contracts related to construction of the $238 million downtown arena.

It approved a contract with a geotechnical engineering firm, Patriot Engineering and Environmental Inc., which has headquarters in Indianapolis and a branch office in Louisville.

The deal calls for Patriot to be paid about $650,000. Authority Chairman Jim Host said Patriot submitted the "lowest and best" of three bids to do the work.

Host said Patriot will perform a variety of inspections and testing of materials, including making sure that concrete, soil and other materials meet state certification and code standards.

Patriot, for instance, will inspect the new concrete footings in the foundation and will provide daily field reports as construction progresses. It will answer to Mortenson Construction, the general contractor, and to PC Sports, the arena program manager and the authority's agent on the project.

Patriot performed similar work on Lucas Oil Stadium and Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, on Louisville's McAlpine Locks and Dam and on the Marriott Louisville Downtown.

Also yesterday, during the meeting at Kentucky International Convention Center, the authority learned:

That a Webcam will be set up in the next few days that will permit people to view progress on the arena's construction 24 hours a day. It will be available on a link through the arena Web site, www.arenaauthority.com.

That the site in the riverfront block has essentially been cleared, and that foundation work and excavation for the arena garage are under way.

That the marketing of the arena continues. But Host said in an interview that it may be another year before the authority has a deal with a company to put its name on the arena.

In an interview, Host said he remains confident that the arena can operate in the black. He said money from a taxing district, the city and revenue generated by the arena will more than cover the annual bond debt and operating expenses.

Host said he gets emotional when he looks at the arena site. "After all the issues we've had to address in the last 3½ years, I can't believe it's happening," he said of the construction.

The authority recently sold $349 million in bonds to finance the construction.

Host said the authority's representatives are having promising talks with the NCAA, the AAU and other sports organizations about booking events at the arena, which is scheduled to open in the fall of 2010.

There is a LOT of work going on at the site. I can't wait for some steel/concrete to start rising...

Demolition wrapping up, construction under way at arena site (http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2008/10/27/daily6.html?surround=lfn&brthrs=1)
By John R. Karman III, Business First of Louisville, October 27, 2008

Demolition work will wrap up this week on the downtown arena site, and initial construction of the $238 million, 22,000-seat facility is officially under way.

That’s the status report given to the Louisville Arena Authority Inc. during the group’s regular monthly meeting, which was held this morning at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

At the meeting, the authority also unanimously approved Indianapolis-based Patriot Engineering and Environmental Inc. as the arena project’s special inspections provider.

Patriot, which has a branch office in Louisville, will provide testing of soil, structural steel, concrete and other construction materials. The company received a $650,000 contract, beating two other firms that were not identified.

Minneapolis-based M.A. Mortenson Co., the project’s construction manager, has been working on the site for six weeks, according to Bill Hedge, a construction executive who is leading the Louisville project for the firm.

The arena is being built in the downtown block bounded by Second, Main and Third streets and River Road. It is slated to open in November 2010 with the University of Louisville’s men’s and women’s basketball teams as the primary tenants.

Mortenson currently is building retention systems for the structure and doing excavation work for what will be a three-story underground parking garage, Hedge said. About 40 Mortenson workers are now on site.

Concrete work will begin in mid-November, Hedge said.

A Web cam has been mounted atop the Galt House Hotel & Suites to track construction progress. It is expected to be operational on Wednesday, according to arena authority chairman Jim Host.

The Web cam’s shots will be available at www.arenaauthority.com.

Meanwhile, the Kentucky State Fair Board’s sales team has been actively trying to book events at the coming arena.

Harold Workman, fair board president and CEO, said the team has “four or five leads” on major trade shows and conventions that organizers want to schedule in a downtown setting. The fair board will manage the new arena.

“They’ve been looking for a downtown venue that can hold 20,000-plus,” Workman said of the trade show officials, whom he didn’t identify.

Such shows and conventions are typically booked five to 10 years in advance, according to Workman.

The NCAA also is considering the Louisville arena for a volleyball Final Four and possibly a swimming event, he said.

He said the arena will be able to hold a temporary swimming pool should the city be awarded such an event.

Host called the prospects of having NCAA events at the arena in a variety of sports “very promising.”

I'd love driving down from Indy to see an NCAA regional or first / second round game there in Louisville. Last time I was in Louisville for an NCAA basketball tournament game was in the early 90's, I believe, to see IU beat Florida State at Freedom Hall. Indy has the Final Four in 2010 at Lucas Oil Stadium. The Louisville Cardinals won one of their national championships in Indy, back in 1980 - at Market Square Arena. Who knows what might happen in 2010? Anyway - good to see Louisville getting back in the rotation for NCAA basketball games. Back in the 50's and 60's Louisville hosted several NCAA Final Fours at Freedom Hall. I'll tell you - Freedom Hall has definitely gotten very outdated. I remember thinking in the early 90's that it was already on its last legs. There was a lot of seating that wasn't too good - I was sitting way behind the basket in one of the corner areas. I also remember the "white" ceiling looking really dingy. I'm sure back in the 50's through the 70's (and maybe the 80's too), they probably let people smoke in there. The ceiling looked like it had seen a lot of smoke over the years. Anyway - it'll be interesting to see the structure come out of the ground over the next two years.

I think it's sad that NCAA will never hold final fours in regular basketball arenas anymore. Trying to see basketball in a football stadium is pretty much hopeless. I wish Louisville's arena could turn the tide, at least here you have 22000 quality seats.

Yea, it'll be interesting to see the setup for Lucas Oil Stadium next March. Indy is hosting one of the Regionals. I don't know if they'll set it up for 50,000 or 70,000. I guess the thing with a huge stadium is that - when you set the court up cross-wise to the direction of the football field - toward one end of the field - you can still have a huge amount of excellent seating. You can have 30,000 seats that are excellent or good and then still have room for another 20,000 or more seats that aren't as great - but for the Final Four, you don't care. You just want to be in the stadium to see your team play. (The gigantic video screens bring everything right up close too, if you happen to be sitting up in the sixth level.) btw, LOS was designed to set up well for basketball, knowing that Indianapolis would be getting the Men's Final Four, the Women's Final Four and a Men's Regional or First / Second round EVERY five years.

This thing is moving full speed ahead, just wondering why the dicussion has lost interest.

http://http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/arena_update_11-14_09.jpg

It is just sort of in that boring stage. Nothing really going on other than a big hole is being dug. Once it starts coming out of the ground or they start tearing down the electrical erector set across 3rd street I will start getting excited.

There is a lot of activity at the site, that's for sure. I don't think I ever seen so many drills at one site. It will be fun to watch it go up. The stadium expansion is also set to begin soon. I REALLY hope the football team can turn around so we can fill the seats. One thing is for sure, I am not looking forward to facing the UK fans at work :(

My uncle was on welfare but they gave him a job there doing construction. They really helping people out. They going to build it nice.

Arena might try for LEED certification.

Downtown arena planners aim for "green" certification
By Marcus Green • magreen@courier-journal.com • December 15, 2008

Buzz up! The city’s downtown arena will include water-saving toilets and other “green” features, the project’s architect told members of the Louisville Arena Authority today.

Authority chairman Jim Host said he still is hopeful that the arena can qualify as one of the few sports facilities to be certified by the U.S. Green Building Council, a nonprofit group that includes builders, developers, engineers, architects and conservationists.

By outfitting restrooms with toilets and sinks that ration water, for example, the arena being built at Second and Main streets could slash the building’s water use by 25 percent, said Stephanie Graham, who oversees sustainable design for arena architect HOK Sport.

“It really can make a huge savings” that could translate into 2 million to 4 million fewer gallons of water used annually, Graham said in an interview after the arena authority’s board meeting at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

The arena is being designed to meet or exceed international electric codes in addition to building standards set by the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers, Graham said.

Arena officials have set a lofty goal for the 22,000-seat venue, which will be the home of the University of Louisville’s basketball teams when it opens in 2010. They want it to comply with the green building council’s Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design rules, or LEED.

“I would think we would do well, but whether or not it would actually be enough to be LEED certified … it’s hard to say,” she said.

Seeking the certification, however, could add an additional $2 million to $3 million in administrative costs, Graham said.

That decision will be made towards the end of construction after reviewing the project’s budget, Host told reporters.

“I want to make sure we’ve got enough to finish before we do that final thing, but I can assure you based upon where we are right now I’m going to do everything I can to see it being LEED certified,” he said.

Reporter Marcus Green can be reached at (502) 582-4675.

thats the first thing i dont like. if its going to be a color it should be cardinal red not green or any other color

:weird: They don't mean litterally green, they mean green as in environmentally friendly.

^^I really hope he was just joking....otherwise... :badnews: :lol:

LEED cert would be nice. Don't you usually have to go all in on that up front though? I thought the whole development process was part of the certification process.

LEED cert would be nice. Don't you usually have to go all in on that up front though? I thought the whole development process was part of the certification process.
It's actually more about documenting how you did things. Most new buildings could probably meet LEED certification requirements if the owners wanted to. The problem is the savings are from what you do not getting the certification so there's no real economic justification to get it. It's just something you can wave around and pat yourself on the back with.

I'd rather them just save the operating cost. If they want a nice little plaque outside the building I will make one for a fraction of the cost :)

22,000 seats!!!! :eek: That's awesome!! :yes:

Here's a link to the Arena Construction WebCam.http://oxblue.com/pro/open/ksfb/louisvillearena

Today I had to take a trip Downtown and since I was nearby I decided to snap a few photos of the Arena site. Being Sunday, there was no work taking place. I went ahead and took some pictures of the progress so far, enjoy although they aren't the best quality.:cheers:
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/783/a19095hy6.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19095hy6.jpg)
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2571/a19094li4.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19094li4.jpg)
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6433/a19093nf7.jpg (http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19093nf7.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7083/a19091sw5.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19091sw5.jpg)
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/961/a190910or7.jpg (http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a190910or7.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/7572/a19099yv8.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19099yv8.jpg)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3764/a19097ex7.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19097ex7.jpg)
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2946/a19092nb4.jpg (http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19092nb4.jpg)
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3599/a19098nc6.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a19098nc6.jpg)

Sooooo can we get a change to U/C? This is way more than anything CP over in Lex has going on, and they've had an U/C status for good long while now.. I think the two need to trade stats. :lol:

Sooooo can we get a change to U/C? This is way more than anything CP over in Lex has going on, and they've had an U/C status for good long while now.. I think the two need to trade stats. :lol:

That's true.

I drove by the other day and it is really looking nice. It took a lot of prep work to get it to this point.

What's that hill in the third and fifth photos doing in the middle of the site, though? Are they just leveling the foundation as they go toward the river?

What's that hill in the third and fifth photos doing in the middle of the site, though? Are they just leveling the foundation as they go toward the river?
You're right they're working from south to north doing the excavation and foundation work. What puzzles me is the big mound of dirt in the southwest corner (shown in a couple of the photos) it wasn't there before but is now. I wonder if it's possibly for fill after the concrete work is finished?

Didn't they say they're doing the foundation for the underground parking first? Might that have something to do with the dirt hill?

New website for the arena with more pictures and a new video

http://www.uoflarenaseats.com/

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090115/NEWS01/90115024

UofLs donation requirements for season tickets in the new arena:

First level seats will each require a donation to the Cardinal Athletic Fund of between $1,000 and $2,500, in addition to individual game tickets. It will cost between $250 and $1,000 for the right to buy season tickets in most of the arena’s upper level.


For instance, season tickets in lower level areas along the Freedom Hall sideline currently require a $1,600 annual donation per seat, in addition to a minimum gift that in the past has been as much as $150,000 over five years.

The same seats in the new arena will require a $2,500 donation along with the face value of tickets, but additional gifts won’t be required. Gary Friedman, the university’s associate athletic director for development, said the donation also includes nearby parking and the right to buy tickets to other events.

How do we gwt the title changed to U/C. We got a huge new crane on site today. http://brokensidewalk.com/

The crane is BLUE! It's got to be a plot by UK supporters to have a blue crane at the construction site of the Cardinals new arena!

Obviously the contractor isn't from Kentucky so he didn't realize how big the rivalry was or he is a UK fan.

Hah I was like big deal the crane is blue. Then I saw the picture on Brokensidewalk and it actually caused a slight reaction of savage anger. They should hang a UofL flag at the top of the crane.

Yeah I saw that to Haha, do you think this is a big enough structure where we would get two cranes? If the other was red it would be pretty funny.

I expect the building will have at least 2 tower cranes by the time construction is fully underway. I think the best solution for the blue crane is an air strike with red paint (or the team of dedicated UofL students). :cheers:

I'll be one of the first in line, something else they could do would be to have the second crane taller, and red. :)

Just a random side note, according to Business First, there will eventually be 4 cranes at this site.

Louisville arena project remains on schedule

Despite some cold winter weather, construction of Louisville’s $238 million downtown arena continues to be on schedule.

That was the report given to the Louisville Arena Authority Inc. during its monthly meeting Monday morning at the Kentucky Exposition Center.

Some 225 workers are on the site daily, according to Bill Hedge, construction executive with Minneapolis-based M.A. Mortenson Co., the construction manager for the project.

They are concentrating on foundation work for both the arena itself and its parking garage.

The first of four tower cranes was erected on the site over the weekend, Hedge said. That’s a sign that the pace of construction is about to hasten.

“You will really see it go vertical ... over the next couple of months,” Hedge said.

The downtown multipurpose arena is being built in the block bounded by First, Main and Second streets and River Road. Its primary tenants will be the University of Louisville’s men’s and women’s basketball teams.

Hedge said that 97 percent of the work on the project has been awarded to various contractors and subcontractors.

Procurement still must be done on the arena’s scoreboards, videoboards and televisions as well as other appliances and carpeting.

The arena is slated to make its debut in November 2010.

Arena authority chairman Jim Host told reporters after the meeting that there is “no question” the venue will open on schedule.

How do we get the title changed to under construction? This thing is going vertical soon. The Centerpointe thread says U/C but it is an empty lot.

^^
Agreed, Jeff. Its starting to put my panties in a knot.

^Intense eweezerinc, intense. lol

They just don't care about us, either that or they've gotten this confused with MP or CP.:lol:

Its official: 4 cranes.

Living in Pittsburgh, I have no idea what I would do without BS!!!

http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/02/27/arena-mayhem-here-comes-yet-another-tower-crane/#more-3711

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/4th_arena_crane_05.jpg

Administrators please note this building is definitely under construction! Three tower cranes (soon to be 4) does not constitute PREP! We have moved past that Heddon now actually constructed something so let's change the category of this thread. :cheers:

Any estimates on how much money this arena is going to lose per year with the main tenant only having 20 sell outs per year max?

Any estimates on how much money this arena is going to lose per year with the main tenant only having 20 sell outs per year max?

How do you figure that is the maximum amount of sellouts? There will be close to 20 men's basketball games, and the women sell out a couple each year. So, did you mean to say 20 sellouts per year minimum? Because, on top of that, there will be concerts, shows, convention use, exhibition sporting events, and NCAA tournaments (i.e., the 2012 Volleyball Final Four).

To answer your poorly formed question, the arena is not projected to lose money. This is primarily for 2 reasons. One, it's political suicide to say that. Two, the ad revenue that they are projecting to gain off of the arena. There was an article in the Sport Business Journal a few months back talking about the innovative strategies taken in this arena to generate revenue. Lastly, the arena is being funded in part by a TIF, which shouldn't go into count for the revenue it is generating, but will help reduce the debt needed to be serviced by it's use.

I think that Cashville is just speculatng on the problems facing many arenas across the Country that rely on tax and sales revenue to operate, which is a good number of them, if not most. Arenas across the country are hemorrhaging money due to huge dips in tax revenue. Here in Indy, Lucas Oil Stadium, Conseco and our Convention Center are starring at a $40 M deficiet due to much lower revenue. Even with the Colts games selling out, a 60,000 person Chesney Concert and numerous events since it opened in August, there is little tax revenue coming in.

I am sure that since the public is also funding Louisville's arena with tax money, your city will also have issues. If people aren't spending and tax revenues are drastcally fallng, there isn't enough advertising money out there to cover the shortfalls. You can bet your ass that very liberal numbers were used in securing financing for this arena to "sell" it to the public. Those numbers are not going to come to fruiton. Also, advertisrs are pulling out left and right.

Ths is not a knock on Louisvlle, rather a sobering fact of this economy. Times are tough and any project relying on tif's, sales tax and other public monies are gong to have to slash operating expenses.

All true, but this won't be done for another couple of years so hopefully it won't be as true when it is time for it start opporating. Hard to know though, things are rough out there. Pretty much anything based on ad sales is getting killed right now. We may be down to a handful of newspapers by the end of the year at this rate.

I think that Cashville is just speculatng on the problems facing many arenas across the Country that rely on tax and sales revenue to operate, which is a good number of them, if not most. Arenas across the country are hemorrhaging money due to huge dips in tax revenue. Here in Indy, Lucas Oil Stadium, Conseco and our Convention Center are starring at a $40 M deficiet due to much lower revenue. Even with the Colts games selling out, a 60,000 person Chesney Concert and numerous events since it opened in August, there is little tax revenue coming in.

I am sure that since the public is also funding Louisville's arena with tax money, your city will also have issues. If people aren't spending and tax revenues are drastcally fallng, there isn't enough advertising money out there to cover the shortfalls. You can bet your ass that very liberal numbers were used in securing financing for this arena to "sell" it to the public. Those numbers are not going to come to fruiton. Also, advertisrs are pulling out left and right.

Ths is not a knock on Louisvlle, rather a sobering fact of this economy. Times are tough and any project relying on tif's, sales tax and other public monies are gong to have to slash operating expenses.

I understand the general trends, and I wouldn't be surprised for one second if the arena failed to turn a profit. But, I feel like there are some distinguishing factors here as opposed to Indy or Nashville.

1. There are no pro sports here, and UofL fills that void. Furthermore, not only do Indy and Nashville have pro sports, but multiple franchises and multiple facilities. In Louisville, we are talking about one facility for one sport. However, that one sport, culturally, is the biggest deal going. Thus, there is a bit more of a target audience for this facility.

2. We aren't servicing the debt on multiple facilities. Indy, right now, is still paying on Conseco, Lucas Oil, Victory Field, and the new convention center. Nashville is still paying for LP and the Sommet Center. However, Louisville will only be paying on this arena.

3. The economic hard-times are now, while this is under construction. The arena cannot and was not projected to bring any income during this period. 2011 will be the first full year of operation. Hopefully, by 2011, we will be in a recovery and growth period, and revenue projections can be more on target.

How do you figure that is the maximum amount of sellouts? There will be close to 20 men's basketball games, and the women sell out a couple each year. So, did you mean to say 20 sellouts per year minimum? Because, on top of that, there will be concerts, shows, convention use, exhibition sporting events, and NCAA tournaments (i.e., the 2012 Volleyball Final Four).

To answer your poorly formed question, the arena is not projected to lose money. This is primarily for 2 reasons. One, it's political suicide to say that. Two, the ad revenue that they are projecting to gain off of the arena. There was an article in the Sport Business Journal a few months back talking about the innovative strategies taken in this arena to generate revenue. Lastly, the arena is being funded in part by a TIF, which shouldn't go into count for the revenue it is generating, but will help reduce the debt needed to be serviced by it's use.

You are the one with poorly formed comprehension skills. Main Tenant = UofL mens basketball, they only had 18 home games this year. A good year is 20 games.

When have the UofL women every sold 20,000 seats to a game? I just checked the UofL athletics site and they had one game over 10,000 and most of their games are around 5,000. Thats not even close to a sellout. And I think this is the best season they have ever had.

Its obvious the arena is going to lose a lot of money, last I heard it couldnt even get $40 million for naming rights. With the way they overpaid for a stupid location next to the river Im sure there will be huge losses in the future.

You are the one with poorly formed comprehension skills. Main Tenant = UofL mens basketball, they only had 18 home games this year. A good year is 20 games.

When have the UofL women every sold 20,000 seats to a game? I just checked the UofL athletics site and they had one game over 10,000 and most of their games are around 5,000. Thats not even close to a sellout. And I think this is the best season they have ever had.

Its obvious the arena is going to lose a lot of money, last I heard it couldnt even get $40 million for naming rights. With the way they overpaid for a stupid location next to the river Im sure there will be huge losses in the future.

So, you don't think there will be any concerts there? There won't be any shows (i.e., Disney, Cirque du Soleil), no national sporting events, no exhibition events?

Like I said, 20 is the minimum. I don't know what the maximum is. Plus, even if Louisville had a pro sports team (say NHL), the total attendance is not that far off. The predators, right now, are averaging about 14,500 (paid attendance, not actual butts in the seat) at 41 games. That's about 600,000 for the year. UofL will sell out the new arena, as well as average 100% actual attendance. At 20 games, that's about 450,000. So, while the paid attendance of the Predator's may be a little bit more, if you count the actual "butts in the seat" attendance (which is what will matter to advertisers) it will be about equal. In addition, the Louisville arena will have more premium seating than the Sommett Center. Furthermore, UofL basketball, being a perennial power and in the Big East (i.e., East coast media market) will give the Louisville arena more television exposure than most small market NHL teams.

So, although the premise of your initial post was to call into question the viability of the arena because it's primary tenant is a college team, I don't think that is necessarily a viable position.

Its obvious the arena is going to lose a lot of money, last I heard it couldnt even get $40 million for naming rights. With the way they overpaid for a stupid location next to the river Im sure there will be huge losses in the future.

They've pretty much just started construction on this thing, they have a while to get the naming rights. Yes the economy will have an impact on that at the moment, but given this will not be complete until 2011, it's hard to say whether or not the economy will effect the revenue on the arena. Will it make retaining advertising revenue hard in the beginning, yes, but still we are two years from completion.

I agree with Daville on UofL, while it is only a college team, they will bring in a good amount of revenue, and sell out every game. I know that a lot of teams in the NBA and NFL would kill for the attendance that UofL gets. Add in other events (the women's NCAA volleyball national championship is already scheduled here) and I think this arena will break even on most years.

The location on the river, while more expense is not a stupid decision. True it was more expensive, but instead of taking up valuable space in the middle of downtown which is a prime spot for development, the city chose the site that would require more clean up there for incurring more construction cost. It not only removed a eye sore right on the river but also kept open land which will most likely be developed in the near futue. I'm am not only talking about the water company block, which is already slated for development by Cordish once things turn around, but also any other surface lots downtown. The best location is not always the cheapest.

Here'e the first $10 million in sponsorship

First of arena sponsors named
Norton Healthcare to open care center
BY MARCUS GREEN • MAGREEN@COURIER-JOURNAL.COM • MARCH 2, 2009
Print this pageE-mail this articleShare

Norton Healthcare is the first sponsor for the city's downtown arena, signing a $10 million, 10-year deal that gives it signs inside and outside the building -- and an immediate care center at the facility.



The Norton deal is the first of what arena officials say will be four to eight "cornerstone" sponsors that will get advertising on the building's main scoreboard and signs on various concourse levels.

A pedestrian plaza on Main Street will be named "Norton Plaza," and the hospital company will, in addition to the care center, be able to use arena space for health screenings and other events. Norton will also get signs at Papa John's Cardinal Stadium and naming rights for a terrace in an expanded stadium.

Besides the as-yet-uncommitted company that ultimately will pay an expected $40 million over 20 years for the arena's naming rights, the cornerstone sponsors are "the most significant and prominent partners in the building," said E.J. Narcise, principal with Team Services, whose parent company is overseeing the arena's sponsorship packages.

Arena authority chairman Jim Host said discussions are under way with three other potential cornerstone sponsors. He declined to say whether they are local companies, but said announcements could come in four to six weeks.

You are the one with poorly formed comprehension skills. Main Tenant = UofL mens basketball, they only had 18 home games this year. A good year is 20 games.

When have the UofL women every sold 20,000 seats to a game? I just checked the UofL athletics site and they had one game over 10,000 and most of their games are around 5,000. Thats not even close to a sellout. And I think this is the best season they have ever had.

Its obvious the arena is going to lose a lot of money, last I heard it couldnt even get $40 million for naming rights. With the way they overpaid for a stupid location next to the river Im sure there will be huge losses in the future.
Actually UofL women had 3 games over 10,000, 2 of which were over 15,000. The average for this season is 7,111. When UConn comes to town they will sell out for sure. When UConn played here last year it was the largest attendance for any women's game in the country(just over 19,000).
Here the link to back it uphttp://www.uoflsports.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html

So, you don't think there will be any concerts there? There won't be any shows (i.e., Disney, Cirque du Soleil), no national sporting events, no exhibition events?

Like I said, 20 is the minimum. I don't know what the maximum is. Plus, even if Louisville had a pro sports team (say NHL), the total attendance is not that far off. The predators, right now, are averaging about 14,500 (paid attendance, not actual butts in the seat) at 41 games. That's about 600,000 for the year. UofL will sell out the new arena, as well as average 100% actual attendance. At 20 games, that's about 450,000. So, while the paid attendance of the Predator's may be a little bit more, if you count the actual "butts in the seat" attendance (which is what will matter to advertisers) it will be about equal. In addition, the Louisville arena will have more premium seating than the Sommett Center. Furthermore, UofL basketball, being a perennial power and in the Big East (i.e., East coast media market) will give the Louisville arena more television exposure than most small market NHL teams.

So, although the premise of your initial post was to call into question the viability of the arena because it's primary tenant is a college team, I don't think that is necessarily a viable position.

A 25% difference in attendance of your main tenant is pretty significant. Those east coast media markets you talk about could not care less about college basketball. You are trying to massage numbers in a way to make the arena look more viable, but in reality its a big waste of money.

Those 7,000 seats the UofL women average at games probably means the arena will be operating at a loss those days. According to what I have read UofL gets control of the arena the day before the game as well. Lets say best case scenario 20 mens home games and 15 womens home games. Thats 50 days a year where the arena is a complete waste.

NHL and NBA arenas also have hopes of post season revenues and that will not happen for college teams. Play a couple rounds of playoffs and you could easily put another 150,000 butts into seats which means that a team like the Predators could double what a college like UofL could bring in.

Nashville Predators= 14,500 * 41= 594,500 * $45 average ticket price = $26,752,500

Louisville mens basketball = 20,000 * 18= 360,000 * $30 average ticket price = $10,800,000

Nashville Predators= 14,500 * 41= 594,500 * $45 average ticket price = $26,752,500

Louisville mens basketball = 20,000 * 18= 360,000 * $30 average ticket price = $10,800,000

If you honestly think it costs less to go to a UofL basketball game than a Predator's game, then I want what you are smoking. When I lived in Nashville, you could walk up any game day and buy a ticket. If you don't have season tickets for UofL, then good luck finding one. Plus, the ticket price doesn't really mean jack. You fixed ticket cost go to the owner / university. The city probably has a fixed number on the tickets sold (i.e., $2 tax per ticket to fund the arena).

And, a quick math correction: Louisville's arena will be 22,000. Aren't facts fun?

A 25% difference in attendance of your main tenant is pretty significant. Those east coast media markets you talk about could not care less about college basketball. You are trying to massage numbers in a way to make the arena look more viable, but in reality its a big waste of money.

Those 7,000 seats the UofL women average at games probably means the arena will be operating at a loss those days. According to what I have read UofL gets control of the arena the day before the game as well. Lets say best case scenario 20 mens home games and 15 womens home games. Thats 50 days a year where the arena is a complete waste.

NHL and NBA arenas also have hopes of post season revenues and that will not happen for college teams. Play a couple rounds of playoffs and you could easily put another 150,000 butts into seats which means that a team like the Predators could double what a college like UofL could bring in.

OK. You're right. The Nashville Predators, or any small market NHL team for that matter, gets far more exposure than big time college athletics. Tell me, when was the last time the Predators were on ESPN Primetime? When was the last time they were on a network broadcast? This year alone, the HOME games (i.e., the ones broadcasting with the sponsor in Louisville prominently shown) on ESPN have been 7 and on twice on CBS. That is national exposure FROM THE WOULD-BE LOUISVILLE ARENA 9 times. So, like I said, who has more ad exposure -- UofL basketball or a small market NHL team?

And, I love it how you discount Louisville women's basketball as a wasted day. I'm sure than a lot of small market NHL teams have over half the seats unused on any given weeknight. I've been there, done that. Talk about a waste.

So, I know you really really really want to discount the fact Louisville is building an arena with a college as its primary tenant. But, as you can see, it's really no different, if not better, than a city building one for a marginal sport with no local cultural significance.

There are more expensive seats to pro sports games, and there are also more cheap tickets. I didnt pull the $45 out of my ass, I actually took $.75 off what the average prices are. Here is the link:

http://andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/ticket-prices.htm

Basically you can add $1,080,000 to the UofL total for the 2,000 extra seats and $445,875 to the Nashville total for the $.75. Its more than double no matter how you slice it.

....but given this will not be complete until 2011,
You need to check your facts. The arena will be complete by the beginning of the fall 2010 UofL basketball season.
The location on the river, while more expense is not a stupid decision. True it was more expensive, but instead of taking up valuable space in the middle of downtown which is a prime spot for development, the city chose the site that would require more clean up there for incurring more construction cost. It not only removed a eye sore right on the river but also kept open land which will most likely be developed in the near futue. I'm am not only talking about the water company block, which is already slated for development by Cordish once things turn around, but also any other surface lots downtown. The best location is not always the cheapest.
Actually in many cases waterfront property is much more valuable than property elsewhere in downtown. Maybe cleaning up the site was a good thing but upgrading all of LG&E's downtown infrastructure for them was kind of a ripoff to the taxpayers. Oh yeah, I'm glad we save the water company property so we could give it away to Cordish! Mayor Jerry seems to be good at giving things away instead of making money.

I've never seen a UofL basketball ticket for less than $40 for a regular season ticket. so add that to your calculation as well. In the end, what does it matter to you? Why come on the thread and ask "What is it expected to lose?", do you not think that would make someone's blood boil? The reality is all arena's do for an area's economy is take funds that would go to other establishments (restaurants, other forms of entertaiment) and redirect them to the team, whether college or pro. So unless the arena helps attract out of town guest with not only the games themselves,(I would same the numbers are similiar in that aspect with pro and college, giving college a little more of an edge), but also in the form of conventions, concerts, etc. They really in the big picture don't do much economically for a city. You could say they help revitalize the immediate area, and they do, but in the big picture they are essentially bragging rights.

You need to check your facts. The arena will be complete by the beginning of the fall 2010 UofL basketball season.

Actually in many cases waterfront property is much more valuable than property elsewhere in downtown. Maybe cleaning up the site was a good thing but upgrading all of LG&E's downtown infrastructure for them was kind of a ripoff to the taxpayers. Oh yeah, I'm glad we save the water company property so we could give it away to Cordish! Mayor Jerry seems to be good at giving things away instead of making money.

So you would have rather left the site as is?.....gee I wonder how much money the site would have made then... Yes, usually waterfront property would be more valuable, but with the cost of prepping the site, no developer would have touched it without the city clearing it out. Having the arena on the waterfront site would have also left large areas of the surrounding streets facing the arena walls, I wonder what that would have done for the sidewalk activity, not to mention with whiskey row right next to the riverfront site that area is also going to benefit with new development, whether Iron Quarter is built or not, it's only a matter of time. On the water company block there would have to have been more modifications to the exisiting infrastructure for development to spur off of the arena.

You need to check your facts. The arena will be complete by the beginning of the fall 2010 UofL basketball season.

Actually in many cases waterfront property is much more valuable than property elsewhere in downtown. Maybe cleaning up the site was a good thing but upgrading all of LG&E's downtown infrastructure for them was kind of a ripoff to the taxpayers. Oh yeah, I'm glad we save the water company property so we could give it away to Cordish! Mayor Jerry seems to be good at giving things away instead of making money.

You're comments are about as bad as the racist Nancies that populate the Courier-Journal.

What about 4th Street Live? Was that "giving away money" when the tax values of the property has substantially increased over the decaying mall that was there before? What about the future arena block? Will it not attract new investment surrounding the block that will only prop up the underlying tax values? What about the Cordish block? If fully redeveloped, will it not prop up the tax base?

You seem to have a hard time understanding what "tax increment financing" is. Sorry if the Mayor is seeking the best interests of major developers who have an interest in redeveloping downtown and it's many surface lots and deteriorated buildings. Sorry if the Mayor, in all of his downtown orgy-fest, has neglected the ever outlying suburbs. Sorry if this Mayor is one of the few mayor's who have actually focused on downtown redevelopment and growth. Oops.

Your comments throughout your history on SSC has been almost entirely negative of downtown Louisville. Do you even live or participate in downtown living, or do you come to downtown either for commuting?

You're comments are about as bad as the racist Nancies that populate the Courier-Journal.

What about 4th Street Live? Was that "giving away money" when the tax values of the property has substantially increased over the decaying mall that was there before? What about the future arena block? Will it not attract new investment surrounding the block that will only prop up the underlying tax values? What about the Cordish block? If fully redeveloped, will it not prop up the tax base?

You seem to have a hard time understanding what "tax increment financing" is. Sorry if the Mayor is seeking the best interests of major developers who have an interest in redeveloping downtown and it's many surface lots and deteriorated buildings. Sorry if the Mayor, in all of his downtown orgy-fest, has neglected the ever outlying suburbs. Sorry if this Mayor is one of the few mayor's who have actually focused on downtown redevelopment and growth. Oops.

Your comments throughout your history on SSC has been almost entirely negative of downtown Louisville. Do you even live or participate in downtown living, or do you come to downtown either for commuting?
You sound awful sensitive about downtown, are you Mayor Jerry in disguise? I don't quite see where you come off saying that I'm a racist, or even compare me to anybody at the Courier Journal. I do know that Mayor Abramson has given away (or at least sold for a bargain price) many properties in Louisville and even given major tax breaks to the developers.

Yes it's nice to have a vibrant downtown but one the cost of doing such is as high as it has been in Louisville I don't see where the benefits outweigh the costs. If we're helping a developer who is trying to do something on his own then I can understand providing some help. But seeking out a developer, giving him property for all intents purposes and not put in stipulation on what and when development is to be done is stupid. Tax incremental financing of projects is OK in some situations but shouldn't be the standard mode of operation for gov't especially if they are living on the edge like Louisville is. What good is money in 10 years if you can't pay your bills today?

As far as the arena goes, I don't have a real problem with gov't helping prepare the site for development but the site shouldn't have been used for the arena, it should have been sold (probably at a profit) for private development. The arena in my opinion would've been much better if it was located at the fairgrounds (tear down the old Cardinal stadium) because parking would've been available and it would've been closer to its primary tenants home (UofL).

In answer to your last question, I do go downtown of the places I go to regularly were all privately developed without government assistance. My impression of 4th Street Live is not positive, rather it appears to be nothing but a hangout for underage drinking and partying.

You see, this drives me crazy! In no way, shape, or form would a new arena be better off at the Fairgrounds. First of all, there is already an arena there not to mention a million square foot convention center. What is the point of having a second (really, a third if you count Broadbent) arena at the same location? You can't use them both at the same time since parking would be limited and there is no alternative to parking at the Fairgrounds. Secondly, traffic is an absolute nightmare after a UofL game. There is no way downtown will be that bad. In fact, a gridded street pattern is designed to disperse traffic.

Lastly, the biggest "band for your buck" is putting an arena downtown. That is the location where fans, concert goers, and conventioners can utilize the arena and other amenities, such as numerous hotels, restaurants, bars, and cultural establishments without having to get in their car and drive elsewhere. That is not possible at the Fairgrounds, or really anywhere else.

I've never seen a UofL basketball ticket for less than $40 for a regular season ticket. so add that to your calculation as well. In the end, what does it matter to you?

Complete BS, UofL tickets are $30. If you order off of ticketmaster they will charge you an extra $6-7 for convenience fees. That money goes straight to TM.

Again, not talking out of my ass, here is an actual link that shows the cost of uofL tickets.

http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1600414DDDF051E5?artistid=845511&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7

Ok. But, how many of those are available? None. I know, tonight is their last game. But, if you did the same search in October, you would get the same result. On the flip side, if you do a search for the Predator's game tomorrow night, you can still buy tickets at the $170 level. What good does it have to price tickets that high only to go unsold? So, who would you rather have as an advertiser? I know my answer.

According to ESPN the Predators have sold 86.1% of their tickets to games this year. Not bad for a hockey franchise in a small southern market. The team is clearly not hurting, and again you can try to massage the numbers all you want. The truth is a pro franchise easily brings in double what a college team like Louisville will bring it.

And to the point somebody made earlier about Louisville playing in the Big East and the big North Eastern markets. Last time I checker there were 3 NHL franchises in metro NYC, one in Boston, Philly, D.C., plus others located in large metro areas elsewhere in the US and Canada. Not way a college team will get more exposure than a pro team because of conference affiliation.

Plus the arena has an $80 million naming rights deal because of the Predators, and was probably $100 million less to build. That last number is my first guesstimate of this thread, so I may be a little off.

You sound awful sensitive about downtown, are you Mayor Jerry in disguise? I don't quite see where you come off saying that I'm a racist, or even compare me to anybody at the Courier Journal. I do know that Mayor Abramson has given away (or at least sold for a bargain price) many properties in Louisville and even given major tax breaks to the developers.

Yes it's nice to have a vibrant downtown but one the cost of doing such is as high as it has been in Louisville I don't see where the benefits outweigh the costs. If we're helping a developer who is trying to do something on his own then I can understand providing some help. But seeking out a developer, giving him property for all intents purposes and not put in stipulation on what and when development is to be done is stupid. Tax incremental financing of projects is OK in some situations but shouldn't be the standard mode of operation for gov't especially if they are living on the edge like Louisville is. What good is money in 10 years if you can't pay your bills today?

As far as the arena goes, I don't have a real problem with gov't helping prepare the site for development but the site shouldn't have been used for the arena, it should have been sold (probably at a profit) for private development. The arena in my opinion would've been much better if it was located at the fairgrounds (tear down the old Cardinal stadium) because parking would've been available and it would've been closer to its primary tenants home (UofL).

In answer to your last question, I do go downtown of the places I go to regularly were all privately developed without government assistance. My impression of 4th Street Live is not positive, rather it appears to be nothing but a hangout for underage drinking and partying.

"You're comments are about as bad as the racist Nancies that populate the Courier-Journal."

That does not imply that you are racist, but that some of your comments border on the asininity that populate the Courier-Journal.

To reiterate, tax-increment-financing is not a tax-break. The two are completely independent from each other and have completely different structures. Tax-breaks is giving the property a 20-year, 20%reduction in current yearly property taxes so that the property can generate a 20%+ return-on-investment. That's one example.

Tax-increment-financing is giving the property a 20-year reduction in future yearly property taxes to offset the cost of construction in an urbanized area, which is typically 40%-100% higher than a suburban location. There is little risk with TIF's, given that the property will still be taxed at the minimum what it had been taxed before redevelopment; most of the time, the city asks for the minimum and then an additional 30-40%, which is still a significant savings for the developer.

That's not new Louisville math, that has been successfully employed nationwide. Centrepointe in DT Lexington utilizes TIF's; The Banks and the Great American Tower in Cincinnati utilizes TIF's. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find any major development project in the United States, in an urbanied locale, that does not use or take advantage of TIF's.

When construction materials have been inflated by more than 80% in four years, you either cut corners or request TIF's. That explains why the Ohio River Bridges Project (link (http://bridgestunnels.com/index.php?q=bridges&s=Kentucky&s2=Indiana&c=&cr=OhioR)) have had major cost increases since the project's inception.

Your comments on 4th Street Live! are generic and laughable. You apparently do not regularly go to the venue. You would be hard pressed to find "underage" drinking, considering they check your ID's upon entering the corridor. It's the same standard as those who go to a convenience mart; those who are determined will get away with it. Big deal; it's in no way the fault of Cordish, but the fault of a nanny-state.

You don't go to Border's? Or Lucky Strike (prior to its sudden closure)? What about the numerous restaurants and entertainment venues nearby? What about the cultural exhibits and properties that are only blocks away? Your "impressions" are generated by false negatives;you surmise about one particular subset of individuals, whether they are black, young, white, or old, and create generalizations based upon their surmised appearance or actions. If I was only judged in the same light, I would be considered an outcast, a criminal element, an anarchist, but whose ideals run only slightly parallel to that.

Thankfully, I am not judged too harshly or critically by my peers or those who are older, especially when I am in venues such as 4th Street Live! I support downtown businesses, but I have not encountered the "wild partying" that you have. In fact, it seems to be more civilized than Main Street in Over-the-Rhine Cincinnati!

According to ESPN the Predators have sold 86.1% of their tickets to games this year. Not bad for a hockey franchise in a small southern market. The team is clearly not hurting, and again you can try to massage the numbers all you want. The truth is a pro franchise easily brings in double what a college team like Louisville will bring it.

And to the point somebody made earlier about Louisville playing in the Big East and the big North Eastern markets. Last time I checker there were 3 NHL franchises in metro NYC, one in Boston, Philly, D.C., plus others located in large metro areas elsewhere in the US and Canada. Not way a college team will get more exposure than a pro team because of conference affiliation.

Plus the arena has an $80 million naming rights deal because of the Predators, and was probably $100 million less to build. That last number is my first guesstimate of this thread, so I may be a little off.

I never said the Predator's were hurting. But, given the strength of UofL basketball, there is no reason why the arena HAS to struggle financially. And, remember, you are the one who started this with the "maximum" number of sellouts being 20 (which is really the minumum). At 86% purchased for the Predators, what would you put the maximum number of sellouts in Nashville? 20?

Ive tried to explain this to you once, now I will try again.

I clearly said the maximum number of sell outs for the main tenant would be 20 times a year, not for the overall arena.

Since hockey has more than twice as many games (minimum) that would almost be like selling half the tickets to every game, not 86%. Comparing college sports to pro sports is not even a contest, I dont know why Louisville people continue to say UofL is our pro team. It is a college town spending money on a pro like facility. Its obvious that at the end of the day that is not going to work out and will be a huge loss of money.

Seems like we may be jumping to conclusions assuming UofL is going to sell-out 22,000 seats to every game. Seems attendance is actually down in recent years. Is it too late to reduce the arena size by about 3,000 seats?

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/

2007: 18,488
2006: 18,316
2005: 18,746
2004: 19,443
2003: 19,037
2002: 18,929
2001: 17,443
2000: 19,180
1999: 19,055
1998: 18,669
1997: 19,591
1996: 19,554
1995: 18,657
1994: 19,323
1993: 18,315

I apologized in advance to everyone for this being a lengthy reply but I will not tolerate someone who feels they're the only person who knows what's going on and thinks everyone else is incorrect.
"You're comments are about as bad as the racist Nancies that populate the Courier-Journal."

That does not imply that you are racist, but that some of your comments border on the asininity that populate the Courier-Journal.
You seem really hung up on that statement and your ridiculing of the Courier-Journal. At least I know what I'm talking about and I'm not sure anyone there does so please don't compare me to them anymore.
To reiterate, tax-increment-financing is not a tax-break. The two are completely independent from each other and have completely different structures. Tax-breaks is giving the property a 20-year, 20%reduction in current yearly property taxes so that the property can generate a 20%+ return-on-investment. That's one example.

Tax-increment-financing is giving the property a 20-year reduction in future yearly property taxes to offset the cost of construction in an urbanized area, which is typically 40%-100% higher than a suburban location. There is little risk with TIF's, given that the property will still be taxed at the minimum what it had been taxed before redevelopment; most of the time, the city asks for the minimum and then an additional 30-40%, which is still a significant savings for the developer.
? No matter how you look at it in both cases the developer pays less in taxes. It's just calculated differently and different words are used. Because of this the facility/business is not paying its fair share to support gov't services.

That's not new Louisville math, that has been successfully employed nationwide. Centrepointe in DT Lexington utilizes TIF's; The Banks and the Great American Tower in Cincinnati utilizes TIF's. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find any major development project in the United States, in an urbanied locale, that does not use or take advantage of TIF's.

When construction materials have been inflated by more than 80% in four years, you either cut corners or request TIF's. That explains why the Ohio River Bridges Project ([url=ourl]) have had major cost increases since the project's inception.
Yes TIF has been used to finance these and many other projects but most of the cities in most cases are not facing the same financial issues Louisville is. In addition I'm sure all of these buildings had much better defined commitments from the developers prior to the issuing of TIF's than the local ones have had.

Your comments on 4th Street Live! are generic and laughable. You apparently do not regularly go to the venue. You would be hard pressed to find "underage" drinking, considering they check your ID's upon entering the corridor. It's the same standard as those who go to a convenience mart; those who are determined will get away with it. Big deal; it's in no way the fault of Cordish, but the fault of a nanny-state.
Obviously if you had read my original post you would know I don't regularly visit 4th Street Live and see no reason to. It's nothing but an overgrown bar
with the corresponding rowdy group of people that normally goes to places like that. I agree it's not Cordish's fault that this occurs, it's only their fault (and louisville's for allowing it) than a place that encourages this type of behavior was built. Of course the people we use fake IDs or other means to sneak in are also at fault. I have no idea what you intended to say that your statement about nanny-state.
You don't go to Border's? Or Lucky Strike (prior to its sudden closure)? What about the numerous restaurants and entertainment venues nearby? What about the cultural exhibits and properties that are only blocks away? Your "impressions" are generated by false negatives;you surmise about one particular subset of individuals, whether they are black, young, white, or old, and create generalizations based upon their surmised appearance or actions. If I was only judged in the same light, I would be considered an outcast, a criminal element, an anarchist, but whose ideals run only slightly parallel to that.
No I've never been to the Borders in 4th Street Live nor have I been to Lucky Strike (why what I want to pay that much to bowl?). The only place that I like that all is Maker's Mark because it is a little better managed and controlled than the others and the clientele is a little older. I've been to several other restaurants in 4th Street but they were certainly not something to worry about going back to and they've since mostly fallen by the wayside. Again as I stated in my first post I visit many downtown restaurants and other venues. The ones I visit however have developed themselves without the need for local governments support and/or intervention. Most of them have also been in existence for a considerable length of time with shows that their management style works, how many places in 4th Street Live and say that?
Thankfully, I am not judged too harshly or critically by my peers or those who are older, especially when I am in venues such as 4th Street Live! I support downtown businesses, but I have not encountered the "wild partying" that you have. In fact, it seems to be more civilized than Main Street in Over-the-Rhine Cincinnati!
You may not be judged critically but you are certainly quick to judge others (as demonstrated by some of your comments). As stated earlier I support many downtown businesses but the ones I support have developed and survived on their own without the need for local gov't intervention. I can really comment too much on Cincinnati because I don't go there that often so I will unfortunately have to take your word on that. I would imagine once the Arena opens downtown the party volume will definitely increase on nights of games for concerts in the arena so Louisville may actually catch up to Cincinnati.

By the way I know you didn't bother answering my question regarding your possible relationship to the Abramson administration but don't bother answering it. After reading your comments I know you can be part of the administration because even though they are dumb in many ways they're very eloquent in their manner of speech.

I live in Cincinnati, but travel to Louisville on business weekly in manners that are wholly unrelated to Mayor Abramson, so I am unsure on how you achieved your conclusion that I am working under the Mayor. As far as my expertise, I do a lot of PR and photography work for the industry, and have personally met many of the key players that are involved with not only 4th Street Live! in Louisville, but with most of the developments in the Mid-Atlantic. What you see on UrbanUp is only a small fraction of what I have available for viewing; I simply don't have enough time between four web-sites and my real job to complete everything. Note that there is very little content (to none) on Louisville; it's on my list for inclusion, but I am currently focusing on Cincinnati since I have been completing several projects for this metro. My backlog is at least 40 articles and 15,000 photographs that span 5 years.

With that, I have expressed disappointment with developments in the past, and would like to extend my disappointment with Museum Plaza. I was a vocal supporter of the project, and was involved with the ground breaking ceremonies. After reviewing their financial plans as of late, however, I am extremely disappointed and worried that they will not live up to their commitments and will only sour the investors that they have lined up. Their chance of survival post-recession is slim; you'll only see a smaller version of Museum Plaza, in my best estimation.

My comment regarding the "nanny-state" is my long-running commentary on the prohibitions that we place upon people. Marijuana, hemp, alcohol. Taxed appropriately, they will deter people from consuming products that are deemed ills of society, much like cigarettes (laugh: we have the lowest tax in the nation). Hemp cannot be smoked without illness, although it can be woven into textiles, used for shampoo and soap, etc. I use hemp products daily although the materials to produce it are imported. That's a tangent that's not approperiate for this board.

As someone who works in the industry, there are differences between tax breaks and tax-increment-financing. Their entire structure and application process is entirely different, and a TIF requires much bureaucratic hassle to even be considered. TIF's freeze property taxes for a defined period of time so that the developer can recoup the cost of construction and public improvements; tax breaks lower the property taxes for a defined period of time so that the developer is given incentives to locate.

Tax breaks are more often used with industries for expansion or relocation; TIF's are more often used in urban envrions where the costs of developments can be much higher.

There is little risk with a TIF. If a vacant parcel is assessed for $20,000/acre and is five acres large, the city gains only $100,000 per year. Over 30 years, that is $600,000. If the developer is given a TIF for 20 years and can pay $30,000/acre that rises to say $150,000/acre a year for the remainder 10 years, then over 30 years, that is $2,100,000. That's a substantial gain that allowed the developer to recoup development costs (loans/bonds) and reinvest. It's not a tax break because the base property tax wasn't lowered. In fact, you cannot lower the base property tax -- it's illegal.

I'm not proving everyone else is incorrect; just your incorrect figures and statements, especially regarding TIF. I am taking the advise of consultants and reports that clearly show that the ROI for the Arena is positive over someone who junked together simple, unsupported numbers in Microsoft Calculator and then declared that it the ROI would be in the negative based solely on University of Louisville's surmised attendance numbers. No industry expert or political figure will even hold a discussion with someone who comes prepared with junk values; they seek an expert or a consultant who can at least validate their projections with algorithms and prior successful projects that they can fall on.

Sorry for my eloquent text. It's only my defined method of communication. I tend to use the skills that I earned in my years of schooling (in Kentucky of all places) to the best of my ability. Should I dumb down my conversations or can I pretend that Skyscraper City is a forum where industry leaders, experts, bloggers and average citizens can come together to share their insight and knowledge?

Seems like we may be jumping to conclusions assuming UofL is going to sell-out 22,000 seats to every game. Seems attendance is actually down in recent years. Is it too late to reduce the arena size by about 3,000 seats?

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/

2007: 18,488
2006: 18,316
2005: 18,746
2004: 19,443
2003: 19,037
2002: 18,929
2001: 17,443
2000: 19,180
1999: 19,055
1998: 18,669
1997: 19,591
1996: 19,554
1995: 18,657
1994: 19,323
1993: 18,315

Back up this year to 19,389. Not bad attendance numbers considering the capacity of Freedom Hall is 18,885. The new arena will sell out.
http://www.uoflsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html#TEAM.TEM

The ongoing recession and the worsening economic climate has also taken a toll on sporting events on the whole. We've seen declining numbers up here, and I know that UofKy has seen some ills from this. Nothing is immune when the middle-class has to tighten their purse strings :(

Interesting few pages. :nuts:

I will be taking a trip Downtown tomorrow to get some pics, should have them posted by tomorrow evening. :cheers:

Back up this year to 19,389. Not bad attendance numbers considering the capacity of Freedom Hall is 18,885. The new arena will sell out.
http://www.uoflsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html#TEAM.TEM

Capacity may say 18,885, but the obvious reality is that they can fit 1,000 more in there no problem. The numbers are clearly down, and now all of a sudden you want to raise capacity by over 10%? Doesnt seem like a smart move to me.

It would be wise to expand capacity in the event that there is a sell-out with either a UofL event or some other function, than to try to expand capacity in the future. There is a cost savings to be had by implementing the expansion now than to attempt it in the future (not counting the headaches saved). How big of an expansion is always the question, and I believe that they achieved a reasonable and expected number; no need to undersize it, for when the economy rebounds, those same depressed numbers could very well increase.

You guys should call 911 to complain just like that lady at McDonald's did because the restaurant didn't have any chicken nuggets. Seicer's reaction to this can be seen in my avatar.

Capacity may say 18,885, but the obvious reality is that they can fit 1,000 more in there no problem. The numbers are clearly down, and now all of a sudden you want to raise capacity by over 10%? Doesnt seem like a smart move to me.
Making it the same size as Freedom Hall would make absolutely no sense, if this was the plan they should have just renovated Freedom Hall. The goal of an arena is not necessarily to sell out every event, matter of fact if you sell out every event your facility is too small. The only advantage to selling out if it creates demand but if you can't fulfill that demand it's lost revenue. While I disagree with the location and cost of the new arena I do think the size is very appropriate. Very little cost savings would've been appreciated making the seating capacity lower, actually the cost per seat probably would have risen.

Ive tried to explain this to you once, now I will try again.

I clearly said the maximum number of sell outs for the main tenant would be 20 times a year, not for the overall arena.

Since hockey has more than twice as many games (minimum) that would almost be like selling half the tickets to every game, not 86%. Comparing college sports to pro sports is not even a contest, I dont know why Louisville people continue to say UofL is our pro team. It is a college town spending money on a pro like facility. Its obvious that at the end of the day that is not going to work out and will be a huge loss of money.

Why do you have an issue with this arena? I take it you don't live here, so you won't see any tax money sent to the project, so why do you care? Yes pro sports would bring in more revenue (I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the powers that be have spoken with a few teams), but the math has been worked out by people with far more knowledge of the project and the economics behind it than you, there is a website if you want to see the numbers. Are the estimates more toward the positive thinking side of things, yes, but the arena will not be a black hole for our tax money. One of the main reason behind spending half a billion on an arena is so that it will help revitalize downtown. I don't think anybody on here will disagree that it will do this. It will help to make Main st. vibrant from Preston st. in the east to 9th street in the west. It's the economic effect outside of the arena itself that was the driving force behind building it.

BTW Seicer, thanks for the post, very insightful.

Capacity may say 18,885, but the obvious reality is that they can fit 1,000 more in there no problem. The numbers are clearly down, and now all of a sudden you want to raise capacity by over 10%? Doesnt seem like a smart move to me.

The extra 1,000 comes from the 24 luxury boxes. They are raising capacity because season tickets have been sold out for the past eight seasons. Whether or not every single person shows up, the tickets are being sold. The tickets you find on ticket master are a part of a allotment of tickets available to the public besides season ticket holders or return tickets from the opposing team, which also receives an allotment. You underestimate the importance of UofL basketball to this community. I guarantee the attendance averages very near 22,000 once the doors are open.

Why do you have an issue with this arena? I take it you don't live here, so you won't see any tax money sent to the project, so why do you care? Yes pro sports would bring in more revenue (I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the powers that be have spoken with a few teams), but the math has been worked out by people with far more knowledge of the project and the economics behind it than you, there is a website if you want to see the numbers. Are the estimates more toward the positive thinking side of things, yes, but the arena will not be a black hole for our tax money. One of the main reason behind spending half a billion on an arena is so that it will help revitalize downtown. I don't think anybody on here will disagree that it will do this. It will help to make Main st. vibrant from Preston st. in the east to 9th street in the west. It's the economic effect outside of the arena itself that was the driving force behind building it. I think you must be wearing rose colored glasses! I think anyone who looks at the numbers realistically will see that the numbers presented were extremely optimistic. Of course the downturn in the economy isn't going to help any for the payback. The arena may help downtown development some but I highly doubt it's going to be the golden bullet that solves downtown's problems. Timing couldn't have been worse, it started too late to benefit from the reduction in construction costs, the only person who will benefit from them is the contractor. It started too early to take advantage of the upswing in the economy when it's completed.
The extra 1,000 comes from the 24 luxury boxes. They are raising capacity because season tickets have been sold out for the past eight seasons. Whether or not every single person shows up, the tickets are being sold. The tickets you find on ticket master are a part of a allotment of tickets available to the public besides season ticket holders or return tickets from the opposing team, which also receives an allotment. You underestimate the importance of UofL basketball to this community. I guarantee the attendance averages very near 22,000 once the doors are open.
The 1000 seats you mention are included in the stated capacity of 18,885 given for Freedom Hall, not on top of it. Anything above the capacity is standing room only seating. The attendance may increase it everyone doesn't get greedy and make the ticket prices so high of people can't afford them!

I disagree. I think the arena is being built, by a stroke of luck, at the perfect time. They were able to realize a savings in the construction cost by about 5%, down to $238,000,000 from $252,000,000. Secondly, they aren't going to start using it until November 2010. That is a long time from now and the economy will almost certainly be in rebound mode. So, instead of opening during the hard times, as in right now, it will open when things are better. But, during the hard times, it's putting a lot of people to work. I think the timing is quite fortuitous.

One of the of home of the I disagree. I think the arena is being built, by a stroke of luck, at the perfect time. They were able to realize a savings in the construction cost by about 5%, down to $238,000,000 from $252,000,000. Secondly, they aren't going to start using it until November 2010. That is a long time from now and the economy will almost certainly be in rebound mode. So, instead of opening during the hard times, as in right now, it will open when things are better. But, during the hard times, it's putting a lot of people to work. I think the timing is quite fortuitous.
If you were involved in the construction industry you'd realize that material costs are significantly lower today than they were when the cost of the arena was established. Yes its cost did drop slightly as you noted but that was just the beginning of the decline in material costs. Because of this the only person who's going to benefit from the decreased costs is the contractor who will realize a larger profit margin.

Hopefully you're correct that the economy will recover by the time the arena opens so people have money to attend events there. The problem is events for the first year are being booked now and promoters will be very hesitant to book events until the economy recovers. Even in a positive light this will mean that we will have people with money to attend events but an arena that does have events scheduled!

One of the of home of the
If you were involved in the construction industry you'd realize that material costs are significantly lower today than they were when the cost of the arena was established. Yes its cost did drop slightly as you noted but that was just the beginning of the decline in material costs. Because of this the only person who's going to benefit from the decreased costs is the contractor who will realize a larger profit margin.

Hopefully you're correct that the economy will recover by the time the arena opens so people have money to attend events there. The problem is events for the first year are being booked now and promoters will be very hesitant to book events until the economy recovers. Even in a positive light this will mean that we will have people with money to attend events but an arena that does have events scheduled!

I am involved in the construction industry. Thank you. So, I have a pretty good handle on material costs. Steel is the only cost that has dropped significantly. And, even at that, you are seeing steel at 2006 levels, not 2000 or '90's. Concrete really hasn't dropped at all, although you are seeing less in the fuel surcharges. I find a drop in price of $14 million fairly signficant and doubt it could have been any greater if the price was settled on later.

Events being scheduled is the least of our worries. When it first opens, UofL will be constantly filling it until March. That gives promoter 6 months to work concerts and shows in. I think that is a good amount of time.

Correct. Steel prices peaked in October 2008, but have dropped to approximately 2006 levels. In addition, the sharp decrease in steel prices have led to many furnaces being idled. For example, in October 2008, AK Steel was running all of their facilities at 100% capacity; now, it is down to around 40%.

Concrete prices remain stable but are slightly declining due to transportation costs. Copper has been halved. Etc.

Exactly my point, as you both mentioned October 2008 is when steel prices hit their peak. That's almost exactly when the final price of the arena was set! The price of many of the associated items (seating, flooring, etc.) have have also decreased significantly, steel and concrete are certainly not the only factors.

The arena is going to have to have a lot more events during a four month period and just the UofL basketball games to break even. They won't even occupying the arena 25% of the time during that period. Utilization has to be an awful lot higher than that to break even.

Ok. So, even though steel prices were at their peak, the contractor gave back $14 million. Sure. Believe what you want.

And, for the record, I didn't identify Oct. 2008 as the peak for steel prices. It was my experience that their peak occured in the Spring of '08.

No, but October 2008 was the peak of cold-rolled steel prices; I'm not for sure on other variants, but I surmise that it is in the same range.

I checked some old pricing files. In October of '08, we were getting quotes for rebar at $950 / ton. In the spring and early summer, it was up to $1,400 / ton. Recently, our quotes for rebar have been around $750 / ton. So, as you can see, the bulk of whatever saving would have been had by October, when Msradell pointed out the savings were realized.

Here's a nice little construction gallery from the C-J.http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=B2&Dato=20090312&Kategori=SPORTS&Lopenr=903120809&Ref=PH

I have some pictures from the day before yesterday, I will try to have them up by sunday. They are chugging along nicely. It's so nice to see such a big project under construction....if only MP was with us as well.:booze:

Sweet construction pic from broken sidewalk.
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/t5_tower_cranes_01-500x328.jpg

Here are some of the photos from last week that I took.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9814/dscf1102a.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6514/dscf1101y.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1331/dscf1100v.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6595/dscf1099.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4968/dscf1098p.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9600/dscf1097s.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8061/dscf1096.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2748/dscf1095.jpg

I guess my eyes are deceiving me. I read the heading for this thread can I see the word Prep yet when I look at the pictures I swear I'm seeing actual construction! I guess the moderators (if we have one) of this thread haven't looked at the pictures recently.

It looks like the arena is making good progress too bad they don't recognize it. :bash:

Check out this stunning 12 minute animation of the arena. http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=10022527

I guess my eyes are deceiving me. I read the heading for this thread can I see the word Prep yet when I look at the pictures I swear I'm seeing actual construction! I guess the moderators (if we have one) of this thread haven't looked at the pictures recently.

It looks like the arena is making good progress too bad they don't recognize it. :bash:

I PM'd the Mod like two weeks ago, still no change. I wonder how the Centerpointe thread got U/C status without digging a whole?

Check out this stunning 12 minute animation of the arena. http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=10022527

The new video is awesome, I can't wait to see the cards play or see a show in this.

I guess my eyes are deceiving me. I read the heading for this thread can I see the word Prep yet when I look at the pictures I swear I'm seeing actual construction! I guess the moderators (if we have one) of this thread haven't looked at the pictures recently.

It looks like the arena is making good progress too bad they don't recognize it. :bash:

are you serious? do you ever come downtown? :bash: its amazing you have such negative opinions about whether or not things will get built down there....

are you serious? do you ever come downtown? :bash: its amazing you have such negative opinions about whether or not things will get built down there....
What the h_ll are you talking about? I was just criticizing the moderator of this thread for not changing its status from prep to UC. It's obvious by looking at what's going on its under construction not in the preparations phase. Maybe you should reread what you quoted and understand what sarcasm is when it's written! :bash:

Old buildings delay arena work

Officials: Obstacles date back to 1800s

By Dan Klepal
dklepal@courier-journal.com

Louisville's history temporarily got in the way of its future.

Construction crews building the downtown arena at Second and Main streets found some unexpected problems last month as they dug deep into the ground to set the arena's foundation -- long-forgotten brick building foundations, utility lines and railroad ties and trestles, all dating to the 1800s.

That caused $4.8 million in unexpected expense and forced the Louisville Arena Authority to take a heavy draw from its $11.3 million contingency fund -- an account intended to cover all unexpected expenses between now and the building's opening in November 2010.

"We'll open on time and we have a lot of contingency left to cover any other unforeseen things," Jim Host, chairman of the authority, said during a meeting yesterday.

He added that the arena's foundation is the first use of the project's contingency funds.

Crews dug out some of the material that was within 12 feet of the surface.

But much of it was deeper, and that forced them to redesign many of the so-called auger cast piles, part of the arena's foundation. The work was needed to "miss, straddle or compensate for the obstructions," according to a report on the issue.

The piles also had to be drilled deeper than originally thought -- 87 feet for the arena and 80 feet for the parking garage, as opposed to the 75 feet in design drawings, said John Wood, executive vice president of construction manager M.A. Mortenson Co.

The redesign caused engineers to add more than 80 piles for additional stability.

"This was on everyone's radar screen, that there would be significant challenges" in building the arena's foundation, Wood said.

The $4.8 million covers the redesign, the additional piles, removal of the unexpected material and overtime for workers in putting the project back on schedule.

Host said that it was impossible to know the extent of the obstructions before the drilling started because workers could not do proper boring samples early in the process, as the project was being designed.

That's because a former Humana office building and LG&E substation were still on the site, and there was little reliable historical information about the abandoned foundations and utilities.

David Tandy, the Louisville Metro Council president, who sits on the arena authority, said spending so much of the contingency money so early isn't a concern to him.

He said having 58 percent of the fund intact should cover the rest of the project.

"The bulk of what you'd expect to spend the contingency on has already passed," Tandy said, referring to the foundation work.

Other developments from the authority's meeting:

The authority is an ENERGY STAR partner, making Louisville the first city in the country to receive that designation on an arena project. That means construction waste is recycled and that, once open, the arena will be more energy-efficient and thus cause fewer greenhouse gas emissions.

Frost, Brown Todd has been hired as the authority's general counsel. The firm will be paid $124 an hour.

The authority has instituted a whistleblower protection policy.

Reporter Dan Klepal can be reached at (502) 582-4475.

A trestle??? I assume it is part of the Illinois Central Railroad's riverfront route to the industrial lands in Butchertown.

Work is progressing very rapidly on the arena. Concrete work for the north end section of the seating bowl is already partially in place:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9811/arenaintothebelly13500x.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaintothebelly13500x.jpg)
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3561/arenaintothebelly11500x.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaintothebelly11500x.jpg)
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4958/arenaintothebelly12500x.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaintothebelly12500x.jpg)
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1336/arenaintothebelly10500x.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaintothebelly10500x.jpg)
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6443/arenaintothebelly09500x.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaintothebelly09500x.jpg)

Duplicate post

Downtown arena progressing on schedule (http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2009/04/20/daily12.html?ana=from_rss)
By Brent Adams, Business First of Louisville, April 20, 2009

Louisville Arena Authority chairman Jim Host Monday said that construction of the 22,000-seat multipurpose arena being built in downtown Louisville remains on schedule and on budget.

The $238 million arena is scheduled to open in time for the beginning of the college basketball season in November 2010. It will be the home venue for the University of Louisville men’s and women’s basketball teams. It also is expected to draw other National Collegiate Athletic Association events, high school sports tournaments, concerts and family shows.

Bill Hedge, construction executive for project manager M.A. Mortenson Co., said that there currently is an average of 250 workers onsite during each workday, and that nearly 700,000 man-hours of work have been logged since the project began.

At the height of the construction season, as many as 750 workers might be on site, he told the authority board, which met at the Kentucky International Convention Center.

Since the board’s last meeting, held in March, about 3,300 cubic yards of concrete were poured. To date, about 13,500 cubic yards have been poured. Each concrete truck holds about nine cubic yards, Hedge said.

The construction crew has signed off on the underground portion of the arena, Hedge said. Work now focuses on the court level, the concourse, the seating decks and the parking garage.

During the meeting, the board also received an update on the status of the project’s minority- and women-owned business enterprise initiative.

Paula Yancey, vice president of PC Sports, said that about 28 percent, or $48.5 million of the $226 million in goods and services procured for the project have gone to minority- or women-owned businesses. The goal for the project is 27.5 percent.

She added that 99 percent of the firms are from Kentucky, primarily from Louisville.

Lynn Littlejohn, director of community affairs for M.A. Mortenson said that total minority- and women-owned business participation is at 19 percent. The goal is 20 percent. Local participation is at 50 percent, 10 percent off the total goal.

She said there will be continued efforts to attract minority and female businesses to participate.

Host reminded Mortenson officials that subcontractors signed agreements stating that they would meet the project’s targets for minority- and women-owned business participation.

Two workers were injured this morning when a concrete deck section collapsed while being poured! Initial reports are that everyone else is accounted for but rescue efforts are underway to confirm this. I'll Post more information when it becomes available. You can watch the live web cam of ongoing operations here: http://74.143.22.251/user/cgi-bin/view_S_t_uF.thtml.

^^Here's the story^^
Three hurt in collapse on arena project

By Chris Quay • cquay@courier-journal.com • April 27, 2009

Three construction workers were injured this morning when a collapse occurred during a concrete pour at the downtown arena project.
Advertisement

All three were transported to University Hospital with non-life threatening injuries, said Maj. Carroll Hauter, of Louisville Fire & Rescue.

He said one worker suffered a puncture wound to the arm and the other two received minor abrasions.

The collapse happened about 10:30 a.m. as workers were attempting to pour concrete in about a 25-foot-wide area at the construction site near where it fronts River Road, Hauter said. He said the cause of the accident is under investigation.

Work on the arena was suspended while firefighters inspected the structure. Hauter said the company used on-site boom trucks to get some of the workers to safety.

An inspector for the Kentucky Labor Cabinet’s Occupational Safety and Health Program also responded to the scene and will conduct an investigation, said Dick Brown, a Kentucky OSH spokesman.

He said the inspector will look for signs of hazardous working conditions that may have caused the collapse or possible violations by the construction company responsible for pouring the concrete.

The OSH investigation could take several days, Brown said.

Hauter said 10 to 12 workers were near the site collapse on the north side of the structure, but everyone was able to get out.

The workers are believed to be employees of F.A. Wilhelm Construction, based in Indianapolis, said company spokesman Larry Roan.

Roan said the Wilhelm company is the “concrete contractor” for the arena project. He said safety inspectors were already at the site, which is standard for the company.

Brown said the Wilhelm company was cited in 2004 while doing work in downtown Louisville. He said a citation was issued for not having covers over holes in walking surfaces at a construction site on Brook Street, but no fine was issued.

Work will continue on the opposite side of the site away from the collapse area, said Paula Yancey, a vice president with PC Sports and the project manager for the arena.

Here's another link to a story by one of the local channels, it includes some video footage: Arena construction collapse (http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=10255564) The damage really doesn't look that bad and the victims didn't receive life threatening injuries.

this is a beautiful arena, Louisville should be very proud of this building.... i hope the exterior upgrades made to the Ford Center in OKC will be half as nice as this, i would be happy with that. Very nice congrats!! looking forward to seeing it complete

What's up Louisville?? No one's posted anything on this major project in over 3 months. Can't someone put a recent picture up of the construction or at least some news about this project? (I don't live there, so I can't.) Its the biggest current development project in the city but no one's talking about it. I could help I guess. I saw in this morning's Courier Journal that there are two new conventions that will be using the arena sometime in the future - I think around 2012 and 2013. That's a positive.

What's up Louisville?? No one's posted anything on this major project in over 3 months. Can't someone put a recent picture up of the construction or at least some news about this project? (I don't live there, so I can't.) Its the biggest current development project in the city but no one's talking about it. I could help I guess. I saw in this morning's Courier Journal that there are two new conventions that will be using the arena sometime in the future - I think around 2012 and 2013. That's a positive.
I think maybe part of the reason nobody local is posting things about this project is because many locals are not really enthusiastic about it. Yes it's going to be a nice arena but, it's way overpriced for what it is and is going to cost the taxpayers a lot of money in the long run. The cost of the project is probably $100 million over what it should have been because of the location chosen. In order to break even they need over 100 dates per year booked (and sold out) and so far they probably have a commitment for about 25 which are the UofL men's and women's basketball teams, hardly enough to pay for the arena.

The arena is basically an ego trip for our mayor and coach Pitino from UofL! Fortunately Mayor for life Abramson is not going to run again for that position and instead is going to run for lieutenant governor so we can make everyone in the states life miserable!

Also the conventions you mentioned will help keep the arena busy but the announcement involving them was very anti climactic. All of the news media have been hyping the announcement up as being the announcement of who was going to buy the naming rights for the arena (and help pay for it) so when the announcement was only about two conventions and many people were disappointed.

^^
Or maybe I, and others, have busy lives and see the construction all the time and don't feel the need to update constantly and harp on the construction of an arena because we are secure in the growth of our city... HAH. Naw, it's going up quickly, but its really not all that excitingly different from the last photos Soul posted on the main forum. Give it a few months for another update.

I think maybe part of the reason nobody local is posting things about this project is because many locals are not really enthusiastic about it. Yes it's going to be a nice arena but, it's way overpriced for what it is and is going to cost the taxpayers a lot of money in the long run. The cost of the project is probably $100 million over what it should have been because of the location chosen. In order to break even they need over 100 dates per year booked (and sold out) and so far they probably have a commitment for about 25 which are the UofL men's and women's basketball teams, hardly enough to pay for the arena.

The arena is basically an ego trip for our mayor and coach Pitino from UofL! Fortunately Mayor for life Abramson is not going to run again for that position and instead is going to run for lieutenant governor so we can make everyone in the states life miserable!

Also the conventions you mentioned will help keep the arena busy but the announcement involving them was very anti climactic. All of the news media have been hyping the announcement up as being the announcement of who was going to buy the naming rights for the arena (and help pay for it) so when the announcement was only about two conventions and many people were disappointed.

Many locals, maybe even most locals, are thrilled about the new arena. Don't project your dissatisfaction on the masses.

Many locals, maybe even most locals, are thrilled about the new arena. Don't project your dissatisfaction on the masses.
I really don't think I am, there really doesn't seem to be as much enthusiasm for the arena as there should be. Of course our government officials creating so much hype for a phenomenal announcement about two religious youth conventions coming to the arena certainly don't help generate enthusiasm! The good thing is we do hear more about the arena construction project than we do about the expansion of Papa John's Cardinal stadium. Probably because there's a lot more enthusiasm about the basketball team than there is about the football team!

Are they actually doing construction on the football expansion? I just took that as being a joke since they dont even sell out their current allotment.

Yeah, construction is coming along nicely on both. While I agree, the football expansion is at this point kind of pointless unless they start winning more games, everyone I know are excited about the arena. The stadium is looking hugh with the new expansion, but as said above, is essentially pointless with the current state of the team, though I will still be watching because a) I'm not a band wagon fan and b) I have some glimmer of hope this season will be better than expected, nothing spectactular, but better than expected. Good thing about the staduim is no tax payer money is being used. I'm betting if the team doesn't turn around this year, that UofL is going to be looking for a new coach next season. They will want to see some ROI from the expansion.

If there is less enthusiasm about the arena as there should be (not really sure how much you expect?), I would say it is because of the economic times we are in currently, and there is more going on in town than arena construction. Once it gets closer to completion I am betting there will be more interest. And in the end it is something everyone will be proud of. Especially once we get a couple new final four and National Championship banners hanging from the rafters.

Well thanks for the comments. Its good to hear at least a few updates on what's going on with the arena construction. It'll be nice someday -- hopefully not too far from now -- to see some pictures posted. (acually -- I think I'll try to find a web cam set up for this. I think I remember someone posting that there was one.)

I think maybe part of the reason nobody local is posting things about this project is because many locals are not really enthusiastic about it.

Or because we all work for a living. I used to post up a LOT more here and at other forums, but my work takes up a lot of my available news-scouting time, therefore I post a lot less.

(acually -- I think I'll try to find a web cam set up for this. I think I remember someone posting that there was one.)
Arena Webcam (http://oxblue.com/pro/open/ksfb/louisvillearena)

I love doing the time lapse. But all things considered, there're are months and months of construction left. I'll be excited when it starts looking closer to a finished project. I think everyone will. Are we supposed to be outwardly pumped the entire duration of this thing's build? Please. I'm jazzed on the inside. But until there's big news to speak of, why speak of another slab of finished concrete?

Downtown Louisville arena lands conventions, transportation grant (http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2009/08/03/daily58.html?ana=from_rss)
Business First of Louisville, August 7, 2009

The new downtown Louisville arena won’t open until November 2010, but already it has landed two large conventions.

Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear announced Friday that the 24th annual Global National Youth International Conference will come to the arena and the Kentucky International Convention Center July 3 to 11, 2011.

About 12,000 people are expected to attend the convention.

Beshear also announced that the 2013 North American Youth Conference, held by the United Pentecostal Church International, will use the arena and the convention center.

The event, which will be held Aug. 3 to 9, 2013, is expected to bring about 20,000 people to Louisville.

The conventions are expected to bring a combined economic impact of about $10 million, the governor’s office said in a news release.

The 22,000-seat multipurpose arena will be the home for University of Louisville men’s and women’s basketball. It also will hold conventions, concerts, ice shows, and other events.

“We decided to build this arena for two reasons,” Beshear said in the release. “First, to create a new home and new excitement for U of L basketball, and to create economic development by attracting visitors. It’s already paying off on the economic development front.”

In addition to the announcement about the conventions, Beshear also said that Louisville-Jefferson County Metro Government has received a $3 million Transportation Enhancement Grant from the state of Kentucky to enhance architectural features, streetscapes and lighting along Second Street, between Main Street and River Road, near the arena.

The grant will be used in conjunction with $2.4 million from the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet and $600,000 in matching funds from Louisville Metro.

Improvements are expected to include trees, wide sidewalks to accommodate heavy pedestrian traffic and street vendors, lighting under the Clark Memorial Bridge, and accent lighting along Second Street.

In the release, Louisville Metro Mayor Jerry Abramson said he sought the funds to create “an area that during arena events is a place for festival and celebration and on the workday is a more effective route to channel commuters in automobiles, pedestrians and cyclists to the key arterials out of downtown.”

The North Window wall could be fantastic if properly designed and engineered. What a view from inside and a spectacle that could be from outside!! Other than the renderings does anyone know what will be used as structure/glazing? It would be a shame if typical curtain wall is the final result.

New pic from broken sidewalk
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/arena_tall_00-500x299.jpg

Some more from Broken sidewalk
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/arena_tall_16-500x269.jpg
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/arena_tall_19-500x207.jpg
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/arena_tall_08-500x338.jpg
http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/08/19/arena-mayhem-this-things-getting-tall-edition/#

Here's a link for all the Broken sidewalk pics:
http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/08/19/arena-mayhem-this-things-getting-tall-edition/#more-5696

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/eweezerinc/arena.jpg

Constuction is chugging along. Here's a link to the webcam, so people don;t have to go digging:

http://oxblue.com/pro/open/ksfb/louisvillearena

I'm looking for a presentation/pdf file that was released in 2008 before construction started, that shows a pretty detailed level by level of the interior. Does anyone have it or know where I can find it? There's one that shows some general stuff, but I'm looking for the one with a whole lot more details. Thanks!

The roof has begun:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/41797227.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1257972755&Signature=LfEs2DPW2be6Qb7num2dIeNM6wk%3D
posted on twitter.

More Pics from Broken Sidewalk

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/arena_roof_01-500x375.jpg
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/arena_roof_03-500x375.jpg
http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/arena_roof_02-500x666.jpg

Right on Scedule, I'd say:

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/arena_curve_02.jpg

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/arena_curve_03.jpg

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/arena_roof_again_01.jpg

Images from Brokensidewalk.

Lots of arena goodness over on Brokensidewalk. I'm really liking this shot. I think this is looking down Witherspoon?

http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/arena_dec_16.jpg

http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/12/21/arena-mayhem/#more-7030

I know the building is well engineered but I keep thinking that the roof steel looks awful light.

KFC YUM! Center $1.35 mil a year for 10 years.

So $13.5 million over ten years. I think I remember someone a few years ago talking about thinking they could get $40 million in naming rights. Obviously, the downturn in the economy has been affecting everything.

The $40 million was a pipe dream, and the size of a deal the Orlando Magic recently signed for their new NBA arena. People in Louisville under the impression they could get that much for a college team must still be under the belief that UofL is their pro team.

Sad part is the company that shelled out the $13.5 million had an offer on the table for $100 million when the city was wooing NBA franchises a few years ago. Really shows the small time thinking that goes on in Louisville, they bend over backwards for a college team and now they get an overpriced arena with a small naming rights deal.

I looked back in this thread -- to early March 2009 -- and read where it was hoped that a $40 million naming agreement over 20 years could be signed. I guess $13.5 million over ten years would therefore only be about 6.5 million short of getting to the first half of that time period. In that earlier post, they also talked about getting a $10 million naming agreement with Humana back then - for signage inside an area of the arena. I wonder if that was ever finalized (?) Knowing these details, maybe they're not doing too bad. You have to look at all of the information and all of the agreements that have been signed to date. The combined total for "signage agreements" is undoubtedly higher than just the $13.5 million mentioned above. (At least it better be. If not, then there likely could be some serious funding issues coming up soon.) I do remember hearing some talk back four or five years ago - when NBA discussions were still going on - about a possible stadium naming agreement by YUM brands in the vicinity of $100 million. Obviously, back in 05 - 06 things were definitely quite different.

It is that bad, the city is stuck with the price tag of an NBA/NHL arena but are getting $30 million less over 10 years for naming rights to that arena (the new Pittsburgh arena deal is between $4-5 million a year as well). The when this deal runs out you are looking at another deal that wont be up to pro league standards. Assuming a better economy you are still looking at another $20 million less over the next 10 years which will put it around $50 million less in naming rights over 20 years.

Even the Sprint Center in Kansas City was able to get $2.5 million a year for naming rights and I dont even know that they have a permanent tenant.

Humana not paying $10 million, that is ridiculous.

Actually, it was Norton Healthcare that was mentioned in the posting from March 3, 2009 in this thread.

Here is what was posted:

"Norton Healthcare is the first sponsor for the city's downtown arena, signing a $10 million, 10-year deal that gives it signs inside and outside the building -- and an immediate care center at the facility.

The Norton deal is the first of what arena officials say will be four to eight "cornerstone" sponsors that will get advertising on the building's main scoreboard and signs on various concourse levels.

A pedestrian plaza on Main Street will be named "Norton Plaza," and the hospital company will, in addition to the care center, be able to use arena space for health screenings and other events. Norton will also get signs at Papa John's Cardinal Stadium and naming rights for a terrace in an expanded stadium.

Besides the as-yet-uncommitted company that ultimately will pay an expected $40 million over 20 years for the arena's naming rights, the cornerstone sponsors are "the most significant and prominent partners in the building," said E.J. Narcise, principal with Team Services, whose parent company is overseeing the arena's sponsorship packages.

Arena authority chairman Jim Host said discussions are under way with three other potential cornerstone sponsors. He declined to say whether they are local companies, but said announcements could come in four to six weeks."


I don't know if that deal was every finalized or not -- I'm just reading it from thirteen months ago on this thread.

Holy Cow!!!!! I see our own Butler Bulldogs are going to play Louisville in the first game to open the new Louisville Arena....the KFC Yum Center. Man that will be cool as hell.:rock:

KFC YUM! Center $1.35 mil a year for 10 years.
Certainly a name that doesn't roll off your tongue and very unoriginal. A better name would have been "KFC Bucket"

Double Down Arena. :D

I like "All White Meat And A Biscuit" Arena

The sponsorships are actually going quite well. I think that is why they were able to sell for less on the naming rights. And, while $40 million over 20 was the goal, it did not become a necessity.

Of course, Cashville trolls these boards for any opportunity to put down any city besides Nashville (his insecurity is shining through). Of course, we could have the wonderful 5-year deal that Bridgestone signed, but it was so wonderful their was no disclosure of the terms.

Cory. I am forever going to call it that. Of course, AwMaaba for short. I'm sure there's some cool Arabic pronunciation of that.

Cory. I am forever going to call it that. Of course, AwMaaba for short. I'm sure there's some cool Arabic pronunciation of that.

you made my day...

Of course, Cashville trolls these boards for any opportunity to put down any city besides Nashville (his insecurity is shining through).

The most insecure thing in life is a Louisville message board poster. I guess when the city has been left in the dust for decades by former peers that tends to happen. In 20 years Boise will probably be your closest peer.

The most insecure thing in life is a Louisville message board poster. I guess when the city has been left in the dust for decades by former peers that tends to happen. In 20 years Boise will probably be your closest peer.

Yeah, I've noticed the insecurity abound in the Louisville posters. Why, we go on every other city's boards to champion our city and put down others. I've noticed how no Louisville poster dare be critical of our own city's efforts. Sure, the Louisville posters are insecure. You, Cashville, only act as you do not because of insecurity, but because everything in your city is just so perfect.

Res Ipsa Loquitor.

You obviously have not read my posts, I rarely talk about Nashville unless other posters bring it up first. In the Nashville development thread I rarely post, and when I do I am not Mr. Sunshine that thinks Nashville can do no wrong like a couple of the posters there.

i like the look of your new arena. you have a beautiful city, and it gets better all the time. don't worry about or allow nashville to blow smoke about anything. it is a city that thrives on jealousy, bragging, and underhandedness. they can't stand memphis and its progress, st. louis, atlanta, charlotte, etc. i can't wait to visit the arena. good luck.

Yeah, I know. Memphis is progressing like a mutherfucker, somebody needs to slow that city down. By 2020 I fully expect Memphis to be on par with Chicago.

They should have named it Sypher Coliseum, or Porcini Fieldhouse.

And coming next year, "Yum Arena- where NIT games are played."

They should have named it Sypher Coliseum, or Porcini Fieldhouse.

And coming next year, "Yum Arena- where NIT games are played."

This isn't the Catspause. Keep that shit off of here. UK fans are so f-ing obnoxious.

Here, the Louisville, Lexington, and Kentucky posters are all on the same team. We want a better city, state, and region. To do that, we need better universities. Whether it's UK or UofL, or WKU, EKU or Murray St., if one thrives it helps us all.

If only we could care more about the universities academic prestige as opposed to the basketball teams.

Not even Skyscrapercity is refuge from obnoxious UK fans anymore.

Well, Louisville is a college town and there is a lot of college talk on the Southern forums.

One random observation, on the UofL board I found the arena pic on, there were more Kentucky threads than Louisville threads. Seems like UK is to UofL what Indy and Nashville are to the city of Louisville, just an unhealthy obsession people in Louisville have with their superiors.

And since DaVilleisGr8 wants to act like he is too good for college basketball talk, and not obsessed with uk here is his lone post from the college basketball discussion thread:

Prediction: Calipari will get Kentucky to the Final Four, where he'll lose, as is his habit.

And the accomplishment will be vacated a few years later. Go Cards!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1055043&highlight=basketball


Really tells you a lot about the mindset of Louisville when they choose to be a college basketball town in a state where they will always be overshadowed by Kentucky. Maybe when all this conference alignment shakes out and UofL is back in a C-USA type conference they will realize how foolish that way of thinking is.

And since DaVilleisGr8 wants to act like he is too good for college basketball talk, and not obsessed with uk here is his lone post from the college basketball discussion thread:
Really tells you a lot about the mindset of Louisville when they choose to be a college basketball town in a state where they will always be overshadowed by Kentucky. Maybe when all this conference alignment shakes out and UofL is back in a C-USA type conference they will realize how foolish that way of thinking is.
Of course UK basketball players have to leave after one year because their GPA is so bad. Here's an article about that subject: UK basketball GPA circles the drain (http://www.aseaofblue.com/2010/5/2/1454647/kentucky-basketball-basketball-gpa)
On the other hand the GPA of the UofL basketball team is 3.0! Which certainly demonstrates that one schools goal is to develop educated individuals who play basketball in the other schools goal is to develop dumb basketball players.

Who said anything about players leaving after 1 year? Seems like you are trying to start random arguments for no reason.

And at the end of the day the UK basketball players will be making 7-figures a year, and the UofL basketball players will be making 5-figures. College is about preparing kids for their future, so it looks like UK wins that battle too. Its not like these kds are on academic scholarships.

Average lifetime earnings for someone with a bachelors degree: $2.1 million.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm

NBA league minimum salary for rookies: $473,604, and first rounders are guaranteed 2 year contracts and the league minimum for 2nd year players is: $788,872.
http://www.nba.com/news/cba_minimumsalary_050804.html

So basically these 'dumb' basketball players can make over 60% (at minimum) of the lifetime earnings or your average bachelors degree in 2 years. Even if they are busts most will end up overseas and still pull in 6 figures. If only they had 'B' averages instead of 'C' averages though.

Who said I was above college basketball discussions? I actively participate on UofL's forums? My point was, this forum is above the obnoxiousness of college sports rivalries.

Louisville may have a college team as its primary tenant, and UK may overshadow UofL in the state. But UK does not come close to overshadowing UofL in the city of Louisville. Thus, the arena is being built for UofL.

And Cashville, if you go to UK's message boards, you will find posts about UofL. If you go to UNC's message boards, you will see a number of posts about Duke. If you go to Auburn's message boards, you will see posts about Alabama. It's called a rivalry. This concept may not fit your trolling objective, but it happens. We wouldn't expect you to actually contribute to a discussion.

What quality of life does Cashville have if he's so obsessed with me that he researches prior posts to prove (an otherwise pointless) matter?

Average lifetime earnings for someone with a bachelors degree: $2.1 million.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm

NBA league minimum salary for rookies: $473,604, and first rounders are guaranteed 2 year contracts and the league minimum for 2nd year players is: $788,872.
http://www.nba.com/news/cba_minimumsalary_050804.html

So basically these 'dumb' basketball players can make over 60% (at minimum) of the lifetime earnings or your average bachelors degree in 2 years. Even if they are busts most will end up overseas and still pull in 6 figures. If only they had 'B' averages instead of 'C' averages though.

OK. Great research. Even better point made.

What quality of life does Cashville have if he's so obsessed with me that he researches prior posts to prove (an otherwise pointless) matter?

I know, right? It took me at least 30 seconds to find and copy it. Lucky for you I happened to remember the comment since it was so random and out of place, didnt know for sure you were the one who left it until after I went and rechecked the thread. It really is no different than the UK fans comment in this thread.

UofL probably gets a little more media coverage than UK by Louisville media, but its not much. Biggest difference is outside of Jefferson Co. nobody really talks about UofL unless Pitino is knocking up 40 somethings in local restaurants, or some assistant coach is screwing people out of tens of thousands of dollars in Kentucky Derby tickets. UK probably gets more media attention than any other college basketball team nationally, so yes UofL is second fiddle by a long shot.

Well, Louisville is a college town and there is a lot of college talk on the Southern forums.

One random observation, on the UofL board I found the arena pic on, there were more Kentucky threads than Louisville threads. Seems like UK is to UofL what Indy and Nashville are to the city of Louisville, just an unhealthy obsession people in Louisville have with their superiors.

It seems like you are the only one who has an unhealthy obsession.....

You are either

A) a teenager
B) have no life and a very low self esteem (who else would make non-constructive degrading comments on a city where they do not nor probably have never lived)
C) have the maturity level of a 5 year old
D) all of the above...

If your not a teenager, I'm sure the movie "40 year old virgin" rings very true to your life...

At the end of the day, if your from Nashville, why do you care about our arena or our city in general? Most people would take interest if they are into urban development, but you seem to go out of your way to make negative comments.

I guess I shouldn't take it too personal as you seem to do the same on many threads.

I know, right? It took me at least 30 seconds to find and copy it. Lucky for you I happened to remember the comment since it was so random and out of place, didnt know for sure you were the one who left it until after I went and rechecked the thread. It really is no different than the UK fans comment in this thread.

UofL probably gets a little more media coverage than UK by Louisville media, but its not much. Biggest difference is outside of Jefferson Co. nobody really talks about UofL unless Pitino is knocking up 40 somethings in local restaurants, or some assistant coach is screwing people out of tens of thousands of dollars in Kentucky Derby tickets. UK probably gets more media attention than any other college basketball team nationally, so yes UofL is second fiddle by a long shot.

Thanks for hanging on to every word I write. I had no idea how influential I am. I mean, you are quoting statements in threads I don't even remember participating in. Since you are so interested in what I have to say, I'll try and post more insightful and introspective comments to try and better your pathetic life.

But for the conversation at hand, who said anything about media coverage? Since the C-J fashions itself as the paper of the Commonwealth, it gives pretty much equal coverage to both UofL and UK. But in Louisville, you know, the actual location of the arena comprised of the citizens who are actually backing the thing, there are far more UofL fans than UK fans.

I know this is getting hard for you to understand, since you are citing the national popularity of UK. I mean, why should the Mets have built a new baseball stadium when the Yankees get all the press, right?

Well, its actually quite simple. An arena was built in the city of Louisville for a team that has a huge interest locally. It will be sold out for every UofL home game. Likewise, although their popularity wains in comparison to the Yankees, the Mets have a big enough following to justify a new ballpark.

UK will be precluded from playing in the facility except for when UofL hosts the annual game. UK will continue to draw its 11-14,000 in Freedom Hall when they play their annual game in Louisville. They just don't have the following in Louisville that you are suggesting. So, no, UofL is not second fiddle in the Louisville Metro (not just Jefferson Co.)

So even though you find UofL's basketball program insignificant, it popular enough to be named the 3rd most valuable college basketball program, along with the most profitable, per Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/16/most-valuable-college-basketball-teams-business-sports-college-basketball_slide_4.html), a consensus top 10 program of all time, usually coming in around no. 7 (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28116552/ns/sports-college_basketball/), and top 5 in attendance every year. The fact that UK is ahead of UofL in everyone of those categories does not mean UofL should fold up or not continue to grow. There is a healthy interest and following of UofL athletics. Sorry that doesn't fit your argument.

First of all, I have lived in Louisville and said so several times on this forum. Having lived in Louisville I realize that UofL is not that much more popular than UK in the metro. There is one county where UofL is more popular, but UK and IU outnumber UofL in the suburbs.

Secondly, the arena will not be sold out for every game. A price increase, plus a decrease in the quality of product and competition once the Big 10 takes who they want form the Big East and the basketball only BE schools split from the remainder that has football.

Thirdy, Louisville forumers are easy prey, probably the most insecure on the board. I guess if I lived in a city that has been regressing for almost half a century now I would feel the same. Pretty much everything about Louisville screams minor league, and now you have an overpriced arena that has no hopes of making money because a college team is the tenant.

So according to wiki UofL basketball has made 1 final 4 in the last quarter century and were only a top level program for a 10-15 year stretch from the early '70s to mid '80s. Really shows the lack of entertainment options in Louisville when a program like that can garner major attention.

First of all, I have lived in Louisville and said so several times on this forum. Having lived in Louisville I realize that UofL is not that much more popular than UK in the metro. There is one county where UofL is more popular, but UK and IU outnumber UofL in the suburbs.

Secondly, the arena will not be sold out for every game. A price increase, plus a decrease in the quality of product and competition once the Big 10 takes who they want form the Big East and the basketball only BE schools split from the remainder that has football.

Thirdy, Louisville forumers are easy prey, probably the most insecure on the board. I guess if I lived in a city that has been regressing for almost half a century now I would feel the same. Pretty much everything about Louisville screams minor league, and now you have an overpriced arena that has no hopes of making money because a college team is the tenant.

First, thanks for your anectdotes on the popularity of our local teams. It's really too bad you can't back up your statements. What really sucks for you is the fact the C-J conducted polls to the contrary.

Second, not only are you an ass, but you are a clarvoyant ass. Since you can see the future, give me the upcoming Powerball numbers. Then maybe I can leave this God forsaken town and move to city where I can be happy and satisfied with my life, just like you.

Third, yes, see our insecurity. We are constently putting down other cities to bolster our image. Deep down, we are completely dissatisfied with our quality of life here in the River City. Please help us, Cashville, since we are so insecure and are easy prey.

So according to wiki UofL basketball has made 1 final 4 in the last quarter century and were only a top level program for a 10-15 year stretch from the early '70s to mid '80s. Really shows the lack of entertainment options in Louisville when a program like that can garner major attention.

Another homerun statement by Cashville. It's simply incredible that such continual depth and insight can come from a single person. I bet it's because he isn't insecure, because he doesn't live in Louisville, the national epicenter of insecurity.

Seriously, though, have you visited the Chicago forum to let them know their support for the Cubs and Bears is due to a lack of entertainment options in the area. Or, better yet, have you let the Bay area people know that the continued support of the Warriors is just plain stupid (I bet they are insecure, too). Certainly you've approached the Denver residents regarding their continued support of Colorado Buffaloes football. Surely they could find something else to do in October through December in Colorado.

Good luck, Cashville. You've got a lot of work to do.

There is a big difference between college sports and pro sports, so Chicago can support the Cubs and Bears all they want. Major league teams are a legit entertainment option that only real cities have, thousands of podunk towns across the country have college athletics. Seems like you are still not getting the difference.

Serious question for the Louisville people, do you all consider your metro to be more on par with Indianapolis or Omaha? I realize Indy is considerably larger, and Omaha is smaller but which do you think Louisville is more similar to?

There is a big difference between college sports and pro sports, so Chicago can support the Cubs and Bears all they want. Major league teams are a legit entertainment option that only real cities have, thousands of podunk towns across the country have college athletics. Seems like you are still not getting the difference.

Serious question for the Louisville people, do you all consider your metro to be more on par with Indianapolis or Omaha? I realize Indy is considerably larger, and Omaha is smaller but which do you think Louisville is more similar to?

Ah-oh. Touchy subject Cashville when comparing Indy and Louisville.

There is a big difference between college sports and pro sports, so Chicago can support the Cubs and Bears all they want. Major league teams are a legit entertainment option that only real cities have, thousands of podunk towns across the country have college athletics. Seems like you are still not getting the difference.

Serious question for the Louisville people, do you all consider your metro to be more on par with Indianapolis or Omaha? I realize Indy is considerably larger, and Omaha is smaller but which do you think Louisville is more similar to?

^^Do you think Lousiville can support,lets say The NBA? BIG passionate,rabbid Basketball fans in this part of The country!I think Louisville would be a good One pro sport city,like OKC,SLC,SAC,SA!I would put Memphis in that group,but we all see how they show up to Grizzlies games!

I would put Memphis in that group,but we all see how they show up to Grizzlies games!

You should take the time to figure out the conditions on the ground before you blame a city for subpar attendance. Everyone knows Memphis will support a NBA franchise, but you have to put a quality product on the court. That's why both the Grizz & Hornets wanted to make the move to Memphis. If Michael Heisley wants to break even or profit instead of building morale then it comes as no suprise when seats aren't filled. He did the same thing in Vancouver. Charlotte wouldn't support a quality franchise because the public rejected ownership. Seems to be a lot of factors not taken into account.