I lived in New Orleans, on Beinville and N. Rendon, walking distance from the French Quarter, CBD, Carrolton Ave, City Park, Canal St, and Tulane Av. I had every thing I needed, groceries, a good job, recreation, higher education, and many big events, with out the use of a car , or even public transportation.

After the storm we have lived short term in some other cities, Baton Rouge, Little Rock, and Mobile, and none seem to be the same, Baton Rouge being the most different. This was brought to my a attention after jokes were made on a local BR radio station about New Orleans evecuees being compared to ants, covering the city and walking just to walk.

I dont mine the comparison, but in Baton Rouge you need at least a bus. I could be wrong but is New Orleans the only city in the south like this. Conversion and opinions on this would be great.

In most southern cities I have lived in or visited, there just isn't a pedestrian culture.

In Augusta, forget about it. There 's a Kroger on the edge of downtown, though the condos and apartments are over a bridge and freeway overpass several blocks away - not at all convenient. In Columbia, SC, there's a nice Publix downtown, but I don't know if it's walking distance to USC.

In Mobile, I would walk around my neighborhood (Michigan Ave. and Virginia St.) but not to any other part of town. I'd occasionally walk to downtown for Mardi Gras parades to avoid having to park, but it was a long walk (and I often complained :tongue2:). When I lived on Airport Blvd., I didn't walk anywhere.

I was in Atlanta this weekend, and I'd say that might be the closest you can come to pre-Katrina NO. But I'd think you'd have to live in Buckhead or somewhere like Virginia-Highland, if you live out in the suburbs (where I did most of the time I lived there, in Gwinnett) it's as pedestrian-unfriendly as the smaller cities. Even when I lived "in town" (Clairmont Rd & I-85) I was more than 2-1/2 miles from the closest MARTA rail station, not walking distance IMO.

Despite the debates on if its Southern or not, Washington, DC. Other than that metropolitan area and outside of New Orleans (I haven't visited since Katrina), I'd say Miami/Miami Beach. There are some large scale walkable areas there and its the densest, outside of pre-Katrina New Orleans, in the South.

My opinion, Washington DC is in no way the south.

This is a good topic. I think there are several good candidates small and large. note: a city's large size doesnt make it the most cosmopolitan city.

I think the historic district of Charleston, SC (which is a pretty big walkable area btw) is a great candidate and at the very least is in the top 5 in my book.

I think that most people are confusing cosmopolitan with urban. Literally, cosmopolitan means:

Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world.


Having said that, there are really only 2 southern cities in my opinion, that could arguably be classified as cosmopolitan:

1) Miami
2) New Orleans

Historically, most southern cities have never been considered very worldly. Without a doubt, the most cosmopolitan cities in the US are New York, San Francisco, and Chicago.

I think that most people are confusing cosmopolitan with urban. Literally, cosmopolitan means:

Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world.


Having said that, there are really only 2 southern cities in my opinion, that could arguably be classified as cosmopolitan:

1) Miami
2) New Orleans

Historically, most southern cities have never been considered very worldly. Without a doubt, the most cosmopolitan cities in the US are New York, San Francisco, and Chicago.

Using your definition, Atlanta also qualifies as cosmopolitan and nationwide LA is as cosmopolitan as NYC and more so than Chi.

^^ (Meant for ncnative)
I was just posting the same thing when I noticed your post.
In fact cosmopolitan is in some ways synonymous with a large city.
I agree that some are confusing cosmopolitan with urban. I disagree with the cities you list. I think New Orleans is very provincial (or regional). Its kinda what makes it NO.



I was in Atlanta this weekend, and I'd say that might be the closest you can come to pre-Katrina NO. But I'd think you'd have to live in Buckhead or somewhere like Virginia-Highland, if you live out in the suburbs (where I did most of the time I lived there, in Gwinnett) it's as pedestrian-unfriendly as the smaller cities. Even when I lived "in town" (Clairmont Rd & I-85) I was more than 2-1/2 miles from the closest MARTA rail station, not walking distance IMO.

Clairmont Rd is by no means "in town".

Using your definition, Atlanta also qualifies as cosmopolitan and nationwide LA is as cosmopolitan as NYC and more so than Chi.

I do not see Atlanta as being very cosmopolitan. Yes it has a large popoulation and yes there are alot of people from various cultures, but what you don't see are clusters of many different ethnicities and cultures that inherently define cosmopolitan cities like New York or San Fancisco.

Taking a large number of illegal immigrants or other minorities and sticking them in certain sections of town does not make a city cosmopolitan.

I do not see Atlanta as being very cosmopolitan. Yes it has a large popoulation and yes there are alot of people from various cultures, but what you don't see are clusters of many different ethnicities and cultures that inherently define cosmopolitan cities like New York or San Fancisco.

Taking a large number of illegal immigrants or other minorities and sticking them in certain sections of town does not make a city cosmopolitan.

There is a lot more cultural diversity in Atlanta than New Orleans which is a pretty unique place but not nearly as diverse as the other towns. Being able to pour a good cosmopolitan doesn't actually make a city "cosmopolitan".

I am not sure if the last line is a dig at LA, but LA is a lot more than illegal immigrants. We have huge Persian, Armenian, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Israeli, Ethiopian, and European communities here in addition to our Spanish speaking population. As the country's movie and TV capital we have more creative people living here than in any other American city with the possible exception of NYC. In addition we have three of US News top thirty Universities (Cal Tech, UCLA, USC) and three of US News Top 15 Liberal Arts Colleges, second only to the state of Massachussetts in that regard. There are 56 orchestras in Los Angeles County and more in Orange, and the other surrounding counties. Most weeks you can select from more than 150 live theater performances. Our music scene rivals New York and London, and there are 300 museums in the greater LA area, more than Paris. We even have reasonably urban areas to walk though I admit they are not necessarily contiguous. LA is a difficult city to know for the casual tourist but just because our cultural amenities are spread out doesn't mean they don't exist.

There is a lot more cultural diversity in Atlanta than New Orleans which is a pretty unique place but not nearly as diverse as the other towns. Being able to pour a good cosmopolitan doesn't actually make a city "cosmopolitan".

The city of Atlanta & NO (not the metro area) are very similar in that almost 95% of the pop. are either black or white.

I think NO gets its cosmopolitan feeling from the number of different people that have formed its culture over the years. Many of these different cultures have merged over the years leaving their old world culture for the now existing one. This new culture may be more of a unified one but is very complex...thereby giving it its cosmolitan feel. This compared to a city like NY where many of the immigrant people often still live in their areas of the city retaining their ols world cultures & customs. I took the NY subway from Manhattan through Brooklyn to Coney Island & could tell what neighborhood I was in by who was on the subway train.

Taking a large number of illegal immigrants or other minorities and sticking them in certain sections of town does not make a city cosmopolitan.

I agree, but that was fucking hilarious :lol: :rofl: :hilarious :lol::hahaha::rofl::laugh::lol:

Greenparrot hit this on the head. Im a haft cajun, of Acadian decent, and my wife is French creole and her grandmother could not even speek english (french/cajun)

But I was not referring more to density them culture. I knew the way of life here was alot different but i never thought i would need a car so much in cities so big.

And remember, New Orleans was 450,000 people in just 197sq miles, 1.3 million in a metro not much bigger. many people dont know how land locked the city is. where the city stops, the bayous start. New Orleans is the 5th most densely populated metro in the US.

My opinion, Washington DC is in no way the south.

If not South, then no more North than South. It was basically founded by Southerners in any case.

I'm not defending it though, as it is a shrine to bloated and corrupt government.

Greenparrot hit this on the head. Im a haft cajun, of Acadian decent, and my wife is French creole and her grandmother could not even speek english (french/cajun)

But I was not referring more to density them culture. I knew the way of life here was alot different but i never thought i would need a car so much in cities so big.

And remember, New Orleans was 450,000 people in just 197sq miles, 1.3 million in a metro not much bigger. many people dont know how land locked the city is. where the city stops, the bayous start. New Orleans is the 5th most densely populated metro in the US.

Our urban core is probably the #1 thing that surprises most outsiders. For a city our size, and with the lack of big business, we sure do have a very nice , dense, built-up, and compact downtown.

I do not see Atlanta as being very cosmopolitan. Yes it has a large popoulation and yes there are alot of people from various cultures, but what you don't see are clusters of many different ethnicities and cultures that inherently define cosmopolitan cities like New York or San Fancisco.

Taking a large number of illegal immigrants or other minorities and sticking them in certain sections of town does not make a city cosmopolitan.

HUh? I think even minorities and immigrants are allowed to choose where they live.

And now you're changing the definition to mean identical to NY and San Francisco.

Of course Atlanta is cosmopolitan as are Miami, Dallas and Houston, just not as cosmopolitan as NY.

Back to the point of what I think cajun504 meant with starting this thread. The most urban cities in the south I would say New Orleans and parts of Miami.

Imo, I can't put my finger on it, but there's definately a different feeling and vibe about Miami that gives it more of a cosmopolitan flair that Atlanta. It could be a combination of being a melting pot of international cultural diversity and having significant parts of the metro shaped by that. Atlanta, at least to me, feels like more of a traditional American dominated and influenced city.

IMO, I'd say, Miami. :)

1.Miami
2.Houston
3.Atlanta

Yeah, this thread seems to be about urban, not cosmopolitan... I would say Miami for cosmopolitan... I don't know about urban. I guess pre-Katrina NOLA. Maybe still NOLA. But with this whole new wave of urbanism I dont think it will continue to be NOLA.

Obviously Miami is the most cosmopolitan city in the south, seeing as though it is like the gateway to Latin America. With immigrants from throughout the Caribbean and South America, no other city in the south necessarily can compete with that diversity. However, there are other diverse and "cosmo" cities. Atlanta being one, as well as New Orleans and Houston. Heck, most major American cities does have people from other countries. Just not the same intensity as a place like Miami, that is pretty much on a gateway due to its geography. Which would explain why Atlanta seems to be more of a traditional American city, while Miami seems to have a more international flair.

Without a doubt, the most cosmopolitan cities in the US are New York, San Francisco, and Chicago.

Los Angeles?

when i lived in birmingham, i walked a block to the grocery store. i could walk to other parts of town. columbia's downtown publix is within walking distance of USC...a long walk, but doable. better done by car at your convenience, coming back from suburban movie theatres. parts of richmond were really walkable.

anyway, this thread seems like bait for a city vs. city...and not just southern cities.

-

Cosmopolitan is such a loaded term anyway.

it was not ment to be city vs city, sorry about that.

Cosmopolitan:
Definition:

1. made up of diverse peoples: composed of or containing people from different countries and cultures


2. showing cultural diversity: showing the influence of many countries and cultures
the city's cosmopolitan atmosphere


3. international in scope: having worldwide relevance or scope
events of national and cosmopolitan importance


4. knowledgeable and refined: showing a breadth of knowledge and refinement from having traveled widely
his wide-ranging and cosmopolitan interests


5. ecology occurring worldwide: describes plants or animals growing or occurring in many different parts of the world

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/cosmopolitan.html

Obviously Miami is the most cosmopolitan city in the south, seeing as though it is like the gateway to Latin America. With immigrants from throughout the Caribbean and South America, no other city in the south necessarily can compete with that diversity. However, there are other diverse and "cosmo" cities. Atlanta being one, as well as New Orleans and Houston. Heck, most major American cities does have people from other countries. Just not the same intensity as a place like Miami, that is pretty much on a gateway due to its geography. Which would explain why Atlanta seems to be more of a traditional American city, while Miami seems to have a more international flair.

umm....Houston is more diverse than Miami. It's one of the most diverse cities in America ranking probably right next to Chicago above Miami.

Very subjective but any of the large southern cities are rather diverse (ATL, HOU, DAL, MIA, NO)..Miami probably has the edge.

Surprisingly, many of the southern mid-size metros are becoming increasingly more diverse as it is very evident here in Raleigh/Durham.

Although DC resides below the Mason/Dixon line (as does Baltimore) neither are truly considered southern, but DC is definitely more diverse than any of the aforementioned. Riding the Orange Line in Northern VA will give you a taste of it, a mixed bag of everything from everywhere.

I was watching the History/Discovery/TLC (one of em the other day), this thread caught my attention when I heard an emphatic statement regarding New Orleans being the most diverse city in the South during the pre-World War II time frame.

Miami, New Orleans

and for smaller cities,
Charleston and Asheville

There is a lot more cultural diversity in Atlanta than New Orleans which is a pretty unique place but not nearly as diverse as the other towns. Being able to pour a good cosmopolitan doesn't actually make a city "cosmopolitan".

I am not sure if the last line is a dig at LA, but LA is a lot more than illegal immigrants. We have huge Persian, Armenian, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Israeli, Ethiopian, and European communities here in addition to our Spanish speaking population. As the country's movie and TV capital we have more creative people living here than in any other American city with the possible exception of NYC. In addition we have three of US News top thirty Universities (Cal Tech, UCLA, USC) and three of US News Top 15 Liberal Arts Colleges, second only to the state of Massachussetts in that regard. There are 56 orchestras in Los Angeles County and more in Orange, and the other surrounding counties. Most weeks you can select from more than 150 live theater performances. Our music scene rivals New York and London, and there are 300 museums in the greater LA area, more than Paris. We even have reasonably urban areas to walk though I admit they are not necessarily contiguous. LA is a difficult city to know for the casual tourist but just because our cultural amenities are spread out doesn't mean they don't exist.

LA is a diverse, cosmopolitan, and incredibly important place. And it is a shame that Angelenos like svs actually are stuck sticking up for what LA is really about because people refuse to look past LA's different structure from other American cities to see what it has to offer.

svs: I'm sure you are familiar with the concept of "any publicity (be it good or bad) is good publicity." That's what LA should take comfort in: for all the (unnecessary) criticism of LA, people are talking about it. LA matters. And if it didn't, they would truly be able to dismiss it in the way they do cities that they never mention (or think of) at all.

There is a desire for some to put down LA because there is some comfort in it for them to put down LA, something that adds to their own sense of security about their own city...or the belief that all cities should be the way a city appears in their own mind.

LA doesn't have a damned thing to prove.

Allow me to ask this question. Part of svs's point was that LA is very large and that certain things can be spread out at times. Why is that acceptable for LA but is the constant deathnail for Houston? I AM NOT BASHING LA!! It is an ok place. Not my taste,but for me, no place out of the south is my taste. I just honestly want to know why LA sprawl is fine and Houston's is not? Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic but svs's point made me want to ask this.

Allow me to ask this question. Part of svs's point was that LA is very large and that certain things can be spread out at times. Why is that acceptable for LA but is the constant deathnail for Houston? I AM NOT BASHING LA!! It is an ok place. Not my taste,but for me, no place out of the south is my taste. I just honestly want to know why LA sprawl is fine and Houston's is not? Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic but svs's point made me want to ask this.

it's so hard to make a meaningful list of cities that don't seem to get their fair due. On this board, it would be hard to ignore that both LA and Houston don't get the respect they should.

As a Chicagoan, I don't think my city really gets short changed at all. People seem to give Chicago the proper recognition. They give it points on beiing a city in a traditional sense and many more for its sheer range of offerings.

Problem is, cities in the northeast, in the middle west, and San Francisco benefit in the eyes of some because they had so much in place and their character so set before the age of the automobile was in full throttle, they given high marks for being "the way cities should be."

The problem with this thinking is that it does not take in the organic nature of all cities and as basically living organisms they change and they respond to their times. If NY, Chgo, or SF had their true growth spurts and coming of age at the times that LA, Houston, or Phoenix did, they too would "sprawl" in a way that a car-oriented culture will do automatically with no decision making taking place. Just organically.

Proof? Head out to the northwest suburbs of Chicago, the outer parts of Long Island, or so many fringe areas of the Bay Area and you will see a completely different and newer world than you will find in the cores of Chicgao, New York, or San Francisco.

Houston and LA are not "worse" in their urbanism than older American cities, they're just different. And as someone whose city is a beneficiary of the dense, walkable, older-city-is-more-urban paradigm, I say its rubbish. Neither LA or Houston need to apologize for the type of development that is taking place on the fringes of cities throughout the Northeast, Midwest, and in the Bay Area.

Augusta, Georgia. :banana: :lol:

it's so hard to make a meaningful list of cities that don't seem to get their fair due. On this board, it would be hard to ignore that both LA and Houston don't get the respect they should.

As a Chicagoan, I don't think my city really gets short changed at all. People seem to give Chicago the proper recognition. They give it points on beiing a city in a traditional sense and many more for its sheer range of offerings.

Problem is, cities in the northeast, in the middle west, and San Francisco benefit in the eyes of some because they had so much in place and their character so set before the age of the automobile was in full throttle, they given high marks for being "the way cities should be."

The problem with this thinking is that it does not take in the organic nature of all cities and as basically living organisms they change and they respond to their times. If NY, Chgo, or SF had their true growth spurts and coming of age at the times that LA, Houston, or Phoenix did, they too would "sprawl" in a way that a car-oriented culture will do automatically with no decision making taking place. Just organically.

Proof? Head out to the northwest suburbs of Chicago, the outer parts of Long Island, or so many fringe areas of the Bay Area and you will see a completely different and newer world than you will find in the cores of Chicgao, New York, or San Francisco.

Houston and LA are not "worse" in their urbanism than older American cities, they're just different. And as someone whose city is a beneficiary of the dense, walkable, older-city-is-more-urban paradigm, I say its rubbish. Neither LA or Houston need to apologize for the type of development that is taking place on the fringes of cities throughout the Northeast, Midwest, and in the Bay Area.

FINALLY! Someone who understands this very important point! I have never heard anyone from the Northeast, Chicago, or Cali that understands this or is even willing to consider it as a possibility. However, I rarely hear anyone who has a problem with LA's sprawl. Just Houston,DFW and Atlanta (basically southern cities) and I want to know why that is.

Wow, talk about an oxymoron cosmo and the south. I'd have to say Miami, or DC although on any given day depending on who you ask they may not want to be labled as "southern". Outside of that most southern cities big or small look and feel like carbon copies of themselves, some with a little more girth than others.

Augusta, Georgia. :banana: :lol:

LOL! Absolutely! Last night I spent the evening in Augusta's Chinatown, then dessert and drinks in Little Italy.

For today's afternoon meeting, I'll head over to Little Saigon. :nuts:

Allow me to ask this question. Part of svs's point was that LA is very large and that certain things can be spread out at times. Why is that acceptable for LA but is the constant deathnail for Houston? I AM NOT BASHING LA!! It is an ok place. Not my taste,but for me, no place out of the south is my taste. I just honestly want to know why LA sprawl is fine and Houston's is not? Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic but svs's point made me want to ask this.

I happen to think Houston is a fine city with all the amenities anyone could ask for in terms of culture, education, sports, eating, and recreation. And it has one of the finest medical centers in the world. Houston reminds me of LA, certainly Orange county in a lot of ways. Don't count me among the Houston bashers, I was just supporting Atlanta. America has a lot of "world class cities". people spend way to much time on this forum putting down places they know nothing about.

has a lot of "world class cities". 3...maybe 4 tops

The city of Atlanta & NO (not the metro area) are very similar in that almost 95% of the pop. are either black or white.

I think NO gets its cosmopolitan feeling from the number of different people that have formed its culture over the years. Many of these different cultures have merged over the years leaving their old world culture for the now existing one. This new culture may be more of a unified one but is very complex...thereby giving it its cosmolitan feel. This compared to a city like NY where many of the immigrant people often still live in their areas of the city retaining their ols world cultures & customs. I took the NY subway from Manhattan through Brooklyn to Coney Island & could tell what neighborhood I was in by who was on the subway train.

I would challenge the assertion that Atlanta (city) is 95% black/white at present.

That was probably true 15-20 years ago, but I'm willing to bet the next census will show far more diversity within the city limits.

I would challenge the assertion that Atlanta (city) is 95% black/white at present.

That was probably true 15-20 years ago, but I'm willing to bet the next census will show far more diversity within the city limits.I don't think that would change that much from the last census. Remember...as I stated....just the city of Atlanta.

Miami!

all the other south cities are shit!

I don't think that would change that much from the last census. Remember...as I stated....just the city of Atlanta.

The city will have grown by 100,000 residents by the next census (if it hasn't already) from the 2000 population. A 25% increase. It will change the demographics dramatically.

Miami!

all the other south cities are shit!


Yeah, that's gonna make you popular around here... :ohno:

^^well man i just got so pissed with you people, although im better now.

heres a better list:

Miami
Houston
New Orleans
Atlanta
Dallas

im sorry guys hope that were better now

Augusta, Georgia. :banana: Where's the pillsbury doughboy when you need him? :lol:

Miami is shit!

all the other south cities are awesome!

Fixed. :D

umm....Houston is more diverse than Miami. It's one of the most diverse cities in America ranking probably right next to Chicago above Miami.

NO it is not. I dont' know where people come up with this mess. Both are diverse but Miami has a more diverse hispanic population as well as a more diverse black population (although not by much). Both are very diverse and nothing against Atlanta and Dallas because they too have alot of nationalities. Houston and Miami are by far the most diverse cities in the South.

We are forgetting a big part of the question, Can i live in your city and not have to have a car, or even take a bus. This is very importent to me, this is what I miss about New Orleans. Even the suburbs are more dence than most southern cities. I dont want to move north, but I dont want to give up this aspect of my life.

Neather Washington DC or Virginia are the south. And Miami is alot more of a Caribbean city then a southern city. Just humble opinions.

ATL BABY. :banana: Nobody does it like Hotlanta.

New Orleans-Too many black people
Houston-Too many white people
Miami-Too many cubans

Atlanta is the only one that is really diverse.

Miami is mostly"
latin ( Cubans, Italians, Argentinians, Brazilians, French, Hatians, etc..), black, Israeli, Arab ( mostly pakistanies), Phillipino, and Russian.
I wouldn't consider Miami that diverse, but comparing to the rest Miami is quite cosmopolitan.

ATL BABY. :banana: Nobody does it like Hotlanta.

New Orleans-Too many black people
Houston-Too many white people
Miami-Too many cubans

Atlanta is the only one that is really diverse.

New Orleans...too many black people?!? One that is a racist comment. PERIOD. Two, the black individuals in New Orleans contribute greatly to the culture of this city and it is renowned throughout the entire world and enjoyed by the world. Three, New Orleans is 55% black. But, that doesn't really matter, because you already let us all know how you feel about black people. FYI, Atlanta is 70% black. So, your argument is bogus.

^^One of my best friends is black, so what are you saying? New Orleans is more than 55% black.

I don't know if Atlanta is 70% Black, but I know it is extremely significant in Black population. Especially compared to Post Katrina N.O. Even so, I am sure the black population in Atlanta had always been larger, especially when you factor in the numbers inside the perimeter and Dekalb county. Thats almost 400 Thousand alone.

Touchdown Ohio State. :banana: :llama:

Touchdown Ohio State. :banana: :llama:

There are no LLamas in Ohio.:bash:

^^:rant: Says who? First one: http://www.alsashow.org/elite.html

^^:rant: Says who? First one: http://www.alsashow.org/elite.html

WTF????????????//

But that LLama is not a native from Ohio.

Definetly Miami. The walkable urban area is huge, from Downtown to Brickell, up to Wynwood and even further up to Midtown. Then theres Miami Beach which is one huge urban walkable city. And then theres outer neighborhoods like Dadeland which is growing into a dense, urban neighborhood.
Miami's cosmopolitan flair definetly comes from its international community by far. Everybody knows the diverse Hispanic community from south and central america, and the carribean as well. But along with the hispanic community, Miami has the carribean islanders like haiti, jamaica and bahamas. the HUGE european population mostly from english, german, french, and italians, the big isreali community too, and the chinese, japanese, and vietnamnese, pakistani and indians as well. Miami also has a huge Russian population and its rapidly growing.
Hialeah, Little Havana, Sunny Isles Beach, Little Haiti, North Miami Beach, Doral, Kendall, Homestead, Miami gardens, Miami Beach are all distinct parts of Miami that have people ranging from south america, carribean Europe, and Asia, and the middle east.

Definetly the most diverse city in the south.

WTF????????????//

But that LLama is not a native from Ohio.

Says who? It could of been born there. :D

^^One of my best friends is black, so what are you saying? New Orleans is more than 55% black.

What I posted is flat out the real stats. I know. I live here and I am involved with organizations that have all of the demographic information you would want to know about New Orleans. New Orleans is 55% black, 40% white, and 5% other. That is for the city proper. Metro New Orleans is 75% White, 22% black and 3% other. You probably think more black people flooded with Katrina, also. 70% of homes and residences flooded were inhabited by whites in Metro New Orleans. They just weren't in the city to be on the news. But, their homes were on the news.

It's a tie between Miami and Houston.
-Miami has the most diverse Hispanic population, perhaps even more than New York

-Houston has many Hispanics, but not as diverse as Miami. Houston has many immigrants from different African Nations while Miami has more of a Carribean black presence

-Houston outdoes Miami when it comes to Asians by any measure.

So it seems after balancing it all out, it's a tie.

This of course does not take into account International recognition and tourism, which Miami easily comes out on top.

Neather Washington DC or Virginia are the south. And Miami is alot more of a Caribbean city then a southern city. Just humble opinions.

Yeah well I'm going to have to disagree with you saying Virginia is not the south. I'll give you DC but Virginia is a southern state.

It's a tie between Miami and Houston.
-Miami has the most diverse Hispanic population, perhaps even more than New York

-Houston has many Hispanics, but not as diverse as Miami. Houston has many immigrants from different African Nations while Miami has more of a Carribean black presence

-Houston outdoes Miami when it comes to Asians by any measure.

So it seems after balancing it all out, it's a tie.

This of course does not take into account International recognition and tourism, which Miami easily comes out on top.


True but at the same time when it comes to international recongition. When it comes to business, Houston tops Miami. Especially since they have the advantage in the oil and port industries. That's why Houston has so many people from SE Asia and West Africa.

^^i don't know about business but i would imagine considering miami having strong connections with latin america it would do pretty well

True but at the same time when it comes to international recongition. When it comes to business, Houston tops Miami. Especially since they have the advantage in the oil and port industries. That's why Houston has so many people from SE Asia and West Africa.


Are you serious?
Miami is always the number 3 international passenger destination in the country. Miami is easily the more recognized internationally and not just in Latin America but Europe as well. Houston's oil industry doesn't mean much to people in other countries unless they're in the oil industry.

But I'm not sure what any of this has to do with being cosmopolitan.

^^he said miami is more world recognize which is obvious, he did say that houston is more important than miami when it comes to business, which i doubt that but whatever

It is absolutly hilarious to me how people on here always try to sell Houston short or demean it's importance...particularly those from atlanta.

New Orleans...too many black people?!? One that is a racist comment. PERIOD. Two, the black individuals in New Orleans contribute greatly to the culture of this city and it is renowned throughout the entire world and enjoyed by the world. Three, New Orleans is 55% black. But, that doesn't really matter, because you already let us all know how you feel about black people. FYI, Atlanta is 70% black. So, your argument is bogus.

You are wrong, Atlanta is only 55% black. The white population is gaining ground fast because of the huge population push back to the city. I live here so I know.

^^i don't know about business but i would imagine considering miami having strong connections with latin america it would do pretty well

But Houston has strong connections with Southeast and East Asia, the Middle East as well as West Africa mostly because of the oil and port industries. The medical industry is gaining recognition amongst some from Europe as well. I think Houston slightly comes out on top when it comes to business recognition. Just slightly though.

It's a tie between Miami and Houston.
-Miami has the most diverse Hispanic population, perhaps even more than New York

-Houston has many Hispanics, but not as diverse as Miami. Houston has many immigrants from different African Nations while Miami has more of a Carribean black presence

-Houston outdoes Miami when it comes to Asians by any measure.

So it seems after balancing it all out, it's a tie.

This of course does not take into account International recognition and tourism, which Miami easily comes out on top.

No,it's not a tie. Houston is more diverse than Miami...Miami only has a strong relation with Latin America,while Houston goes beyond that.

WTF????????????//

But that LLama is not a native from Ohio.


Llamas, limas, same difference, right?

^^Where are your update pics? :rant:

I'd say Miami and then Atlanta.

Llamas, limas, same difference, right?

What are limas?

I'd say Miami and then Atlanta.

I agree with you.

No,it's not a tie. Houston is more diverse than Miami...Miami only has a strong relation with Latin America,while Houston goes beyond that.
DUDE! have you completely ignored the comments here!?!?
Miami has the extensive diverse hispanics, but theres huge carribean islanders, Europeans, and large Asian communities too. Theres more than 100,000 asians in south florida! Not saying Houston is just as diverse, it in fact is really diverse and not to mention Houston is larger in population and land area, but you seem to be so caught up in the hispanics here, theres more than them in Miami; miami has amazing diversity from around the world.

It's a tie between Miami and Houston.
-Miami has the most diverse Hispanic population, perhaps even more than New York

-Houston has many Hispanics, but not as diverse as Miami. Houston has many immigrants from different African Nations while Miami has more of a Carribean black presence

-Houston outdoes Miami when it comes to Asians by any measure.

So it seems after balancing it all out, it's a tie.

This of course does not take into account International recognition and tourism, which Miami easily comes out on top.

The topic was "South" not southeast. Big difference. Miami is no more Southern than Chicago is, and it never has been. It has no historical or cultural (and little geographical) relationship with the South. In fact, it is far more culturally and historically tied to New York City than it is the South. I know it has all of sudden become cool to be Southern, but give me a break.

The topic was "South" not southeast. Big difference. Miami is no more Southern than Chicago is, and it never has been. It has no historical or cultural (and little geographical) relationship with the South. In fact, it is far more culturally and historically tied to New York City than it is the South. I know it has all of sudden become cool to be Southern, but give me a break.

Then Georgia is not the south?

How is Miami more culturally tied to NYC than the South? Just b/c of Jews and transplants?

How is Miami more culturally tied to NYC than the South? Just b/c of Jews and transplants?

By jews I agree, but.... transplants?

I'd say Miami and then Atlanta.

Why exactly?

Miami has a bigger MSA then Houston, so does Dallas. Also, Miami has far more people per sq mile then Houston. Not downing Houston, but its just a different animal.

Why exactly?

Hummmmmmmmmm.....
Because it is.

Albany, Georgia!!!

I think Orlando is three times more cosmopolitan than Atalnta, Miami, Houston, and New Orleans..

Miami has a bigger MSA then Houston, so does Dallas. Also, Miami has far more people per sq mile then Houston. Not downing Houston, but its just a different animal.

Since when did Miami have a bigger MSA than Houston?

Houston: http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm00/pcbsa26420.html
Miami (check out that net-domestic migration): http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm00/pcbsa33100.html

And Miami does have more people per square mile than Houston, but that is about the only thing. Houston has far more transit riders than Miami. Hell, Houston's small seven mile light rail line (until 2012 when the other lines are complete) almost has as many riders as Miami's 22 mile system (45,000 compared to 58,000).

Hummmmmmmmmm.....
Because it is.
GREAT ANSWER! And your point is...?

Orangeburg, SC. :tongue2:

How is Miami more culturally tied to NYC than the South? Just b/c of Jews and transplants?

people kill me with how Miami is culturally tied to NYC than the south. That is absolutely 100% false. I have family and friends all over Dade and Broward County and New York does not register there. They listen to southern music, do the same things that other southerners do such as the car culture and the gold teeth, eat the same food as all southerners do, etc. When it comes down to it, Miami is a southern city people whether some people like it or not.

http://www.miamiherald.com/548/story/86839.html

Study: Inner-city economies are undervalued

Social Compact research found that the population and spending power of Miami's inner-city neighborhoods has been undercounted. The study validates what the community has suspected for years.
Posted on Thu, Apr. 26, 2007Digg del.icio.us AIM reprint print email
BY ELAINE WALKER
ewalker@MiamiHerald.com
Persuading grocery stores, banks, movie theaters and chain restaurants to open in inner-city neighborhoods has typically been a tough sell.

Many aren't convinced that there's enough population and purchasing power to justify the business investment.

New research from Social Compact, a Washington, D.C., nonprofit group, may finally dispel those myths. Social Compact's study of Miami's Liberty City, Overtown, Wynwood, Allapattah and Little Haiti found a population that is 39 percent larger and an average household income that is 29 percent higher than traditional data sources show. The research group also found that Miami's informal economy accounts for $183.6 million, or 11.6 percent of the total household income within the study area.

These numbers confirm what community leaders in South Florida and other areas nationwide have long suspected: The U.S. Census and other traditional data sources don't present an accurate picture of the economy in inner-city neighborhoods.

The reason for the undercount includes things like multiple families living in one apartment or people who work off the books and pay bills in cash.

''The numbers we found all point to the vitality of Miami,'' said John Talmage, chief executive of Social Compact, whose Miami research was partially funded by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. ``These neighborhoods have the density and the income to support significant additional retail.''

''The challenge is to make sure it's investment that supports the needs of the existing community,'' Talmage said. ``We don't want these numbers to be used to displace people.''

OVERLOOKED MARKET

Social Compact's findings are critical because it is population and purchasing power that developers, retailers and banks use in calculating whether to invest in these areas.

''You know intuitively that the market is there,'' said Barbara Romani, community relations director for Citibank Florida. But ``nobody is going to make major business decisions based on that. You need facts.''

While Social Compact has performed similar research in 10 other communities, the percentage of undercounted residents in Miami was greater than anywhere else across the country.

A key reason is that Miami's rising housing costs have forced multiple families or generations of the same family to live in one apartment or house. The study found that the average household size in the area is 3.47 people, compared with 2.88 found by the market research firm Claritas using Census data.

Another factor: the large population of both immigrants and African-Americans, which tend to historically be undercounted by the Census. Plus, there's been the recent building boom in Miami's urban core.

''Other cities will see one or two of these factors,'' Talmage said. ``We've never seen all those factors come together like they have in Miami.''

Social Compact's numbers are derived from a ''drill-down'' methodology that combines dozens of wide-ranging data sources to provide an insightful and localized picture of a neighborhood. The Miami project, which began last fall, included the analysis of 36 databases of things such as building permits, property records, driver's licenses, utility records and credit bureau reports.

What the research also found is that even though the services in their communities are lacking, these residents spend money. Social Compact found that those living in the study area spent $1.5 billion in 2006, and almost half of that was on retail.

''There is a perception that people in lower-income communities don't have disposable income,'' said Debra Sinkle Kolsky, president of Redevco, the developer and owner of the Shoppes at Liberty City. ``The reality is they don't have debt, which gives them more liquidity to spend on basic needs. This will help dispel a lot of those myths.''

Miami city leaders agree, which is why they are excited about using Social Compact's findings as a catalyst for driving major change.

''I'm ready to begin a traveling show to sell the retailers and the business community about investing in these neighborhoods,'' Miami Mayor Manny Diaz said. ``It's a tremendous untapped resource that exists in these communities. There is an opportunity for these neighborhoods to see the kind of economic activity we've been seeing in the rest of the community.''

Diaz is so bullish on Social Compact's research that he has convinced the group to go back and expand its research this summer to include the entire city. Talmage is also going to serve as an unpaid advisor to Diaz regarding economic development.

The hope is that if the findings are consistent, there will be enough data to warrant a Census challenge. Talmage estimates Miami could have 150,000 uncounted.

AN ENGINE OF CHANGE

Since its first study in 1999 in Chicago, Social Compact has done similar research in other U.S. cities, including New York, Houston, Jacksonville, Detroit, Cleveland and Oakland. Not including Miami, they've documented 650,000 uncounted residents and $18.2 billion in uncounted aggregate income. The results have led to investments including retail development, new bank branches and more small-business lending.

In Houston, the research spurred more than $50 million in redevelopment of the city's oldest mall, which was more than halfway empty and has been revitalized with big-box retailers. In Harlem, Fleet Bank decided to open two bank branches and three ATM centers, plus increase its small-business lending.

But in Miami, Social Compact hopes to be able to take things even further.

For the first time, the organization will stick around for the next year to work with the city and businesses to help use these numbers to spur investment.

''For the first time, there is an active movement to see things change in my district, and people are inspired by that,'' said Miami City Commissioner Michelle Spence-Jones, whose district includes the study area. ``Overtown and Liberty City have been at a standstill for so long. It's time for something to happen.''


Ive been to LA and Miami always seemed denser for some reason and La La land is the denses msa in the country.

Um....what thea hell does that article have to do with anything?!

And TexasBoi, some natives of Miami are southern and some even have thick southern accents believe it or not, but the Northeastern population, on top of the immigrants from around the world add up creating a unique mixture of cultures that you dont know which defines Miami best. Someone could have been born and raised in Miami but not have nothing in common with southern culture, most dont.
Southern culture is just a small part of Miami, a fading one if you ask me. But you still do have huge BBQ festivals with country stars doing concerts, but you'll much more easily find something in common with cities outside the south. Its almost a culture of its own with the latin culture on top of that.

^^Save the penguins. :D Augusta, Georgia. :banana:

Um....what thea hell does that article have to do with anything?!

And TexasBoi, some natives of Miami are southern and some even have thick southern accents believe it or not, but the Northeastern population, on top of the immigrants from around the world add up creating a unique mixture of cultures that you dont know which defines Miami best. Someone could have been born and raised in Miami but not have nothing in common with southern culture, most dont.
Southern culture is just a small part of Miami, a fading one if you ask me. But you still do have huge BBQ festivals with country stars doing concerts, but you'll much more easily find something in common with cities outside the south. Its almost a culture of its own with the latin culture on top of that.

You know I can actually say the same thing about Houston with the amount of Californians moving there as well as many people from Mexico and Central America and now a fast growing South American and East Asian population in the city. The Southern Culture of Houston is also fading pretty fast as well. But the city essentially is southern. Just like Miami. Maybe I am speaking from a Black American perspective because that's where I'm coming from on that end but most blacks find themselves to be southern in Miami. My family and friends think of themselves as Southern. Pitbull himself thinks of himself as southern and he's from Miami. I know alot about Miami as I lived there for an amount of time and go down there every year to visit my fam.

I don't know. I just have a hard time believing Miami is more culturally connected to New York than Atlanta or New Orleans. I just do not agree with that at all.

Ive been to LA and Miami always seemed denser for some reason and La La land is the denses msa in the country.

NYC is the densest MSA in the country (denser than LA by a slight margin). LA, however, is the country's densest CSA and urbanized area.

yes thats what i meant ^^

By jews I agree, but.... transplants?

Miami is a colony of NYC. It is just an outpost of the Northeast. It was established by people from the northeast, and still today it is inhabited by people originally from the Northeast or Latin America. It has nothing to do with the South, and it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Miami is a colony of NYC. It is just an outpost of the Northeast. It was established by people from the northeast, and still today it is inhabited by people originally from the Northeast or Latin America. It has nothing to do with the South, and it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.Miami may not be a traditional southern city but it certainly in the South & subject to this topic. Just because you are in the south does not mean a city has to be completely "southern". That would be kind of boring. Besides...isn't every city inhabited by people who either they or there ancestors were originally from somewhere else?

Miami is a colony of NYC. It is just an outpost of the Northeast. It was established by people from the northeast, and still today it is inhabited by people originally from the Northeast or Latin America. It has nothing to do with the South, and it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Just because we have more than 500,000 Jews living here in Miami does not mean we are NY.

^^Save the penguins. :D Augusta, Georgia. :banana:

Hehe.

How about the following: Charleston, South Carolina. That's right my friends. Perhaps the greatest city in the world, this town wrote the book on sophistication (unlike those unruly Irish psychos down in Savannah). You want to hear foreign accents? Just walk down King Street. Great restaurants? There's one on every corner. Eclectic stores? Please, that's all we have. Mix those with the most intelligent and liberal voting base in the entire state (we voted against the stupid gay marriage ban) and the great universities (with beautiful women), and it's a wash fellow Southerners.

DUDE! have you completely ignored the comments here!?!?
Miami has the extensive diverse hispanics, but theres huge carribean islanders, Europeans, and large Asian communities too. Theres more than 100,000 asians in south florida! Not saying Houston is just as diverse, it in fact is really diverse and not to mention Houston is larger in population and land area, but you seem to be so caught up in the hispanics here, theres more than them in Miami; miami has amazing diversity from around the world.

Umm....maybe because it's a fact that Houston is more diverse than Miami! You can keep arguing with me all you want but still your wrong!!! Miami is nothing but a gateway to latin america, filled with plenty of empty newly built condos!

Miami is only setting its self up for failure with all the things it's doing right now.

Miami may not be a traditional southern city but it certainly in the South & subject to this topic. Just because you are in the south does not mean a city has to be completely "southern". That would be kind of boring. Besides...isn't every city inhabited by people who either they or there ancestors were originally from somewhere else?

Miami isn't the slightest bit Southern. It was established by a New Yorker well after the War Between the States. The rest of the South was established by mostly English and other Northern European protestants who originally inhabited the coastal southeast, then spread eastward. Everywhere in the South has a strong link the War, cotton, and slavery. Miami might have had a few slaves in the area long before it was established as a city, nothing like the untenable bond the actual South has with slavery. The food, music, and literature of Miami have no relationship to that of the rest of the South. There seems to be this idea that since a large amount of white trash inhabit the Miami area that it is Southern, but this reflects a complete lack of understanding of what Southern culture is and what it means to be Southern. New Jersey has more white trash than just about anywhere.

My grandfather and grandmother snowbirded to Fort Lauderdale from 1989, and I've been to Miami at least once a year to visit them since then. To me, Miami feels absolutely nothing like a Southern city, on any level. Some of the exurbs certainly do (Homestead, I'm looking at you), but the central cities of the Miami metro completely lack the similar vibes I feel in Atlanta, Charlotte, or even Jacksonville.

The rest of the South was established by mostly English and other Northern European protestants who originally inhabited the coastal southeast, then spread eastward. Not New Orleans, Mobile & the Miss gulf coat.

Everywhere in the South has a strong link the War, cotton, and slavery. Miami might have had a few slaves in the area long before it was established as a city, nothing like the untenable bond the actual South has with slavery.
Based on these attributes maybe Miami doesn't want to be considered southern

The food, music, and literature of Miami have no relationship to that of the rest of the South. I guess that's something Miami & New Orleans have in common

There seems to be this idea that since a large amount of white trash inhabit the Miami area that it is Southern, but this reflects a complete lack of understanding of what Southern culture is and what it means to be Southern. New Jersey has more white trash than just about anywhere.I didn't know that there was census figures on white trash. From what you are saying apparently it is a critical component of being southern to be white trash. Can blacks be southern? How bout hispanics who have been here for generations?

Not New Orleans, Mobile & the Miss gulf coat.


Based on these attributes maybe Miami doesn't want to be considered southern

I guess that's something Miami & New Orleans have in common

I didn't know that there was census figures on white trash. From what you are saying apparently it is a critical component of being southern to be white trash. Can blacks be southern? How bout hispanics who have been here for generations?

New Orleans is the exception. It is, however, still solidly Southern, and I'm going to have go against you on the literature aspect.

Miami isn't the slightest bit Southern. It was established by a New Yorker well after the War Between the States. The rest of the South was established by mostly English and other Northern European protestants who originally inhabited the coastal southeast, then spread eastward. Everywhere in the South has a strong link the War, cotton, and slavery. Miami might have had a few slaves in the area long before it was established as a city, nothing like the untenable bond the actual South has with slavery. The food, music, and literature of Miami have no relationship to that of the rest of the South. There seems to be this idea that since a large amount of white trash inhabit the Miami area that it is Southern, but this reflects a complete lack of understanding of what Southern culture is and what it means to be Southern. New Jersey has more white trash than just about anywhere.

It's a unique place, but I've been there many times, and I don't see what's so northern about it. The food, music and literature are unique to S. Florida. That's why I don't understand why it's more northern than southern, that makes no sense to me. And then you have TexasBoi comment about the blacks in Miami, it coincides w/ much of what I've seen. Driving around the Miami area, the traffic and development pattern, I can't say feels more northern. I prefer looking at north/south things as far as geography regardless of what kind of cultural distinctions a place may have.

Not New Orleans, Mobile & the Miss gulf coat.

That is true, but those areas were settled by Europeans long before the civil war, not a New York railroad magnate.



Based on these attributes maybe Miami doesn't want to be considered southern



Yes, that is probably true. The vast majority of Miami probably does not want to be Southern. The South has recently taken a much larger role in politics, the economy, and media, so now it has all of a sudden become cool to be Southern. But most of those bandwagon Southerners know little about the South, its history, or its culture (other than what they see on TV).


I guess that's something Miami & New Orleans have in common


New Orleans has an undeniable influence on the rest of the South, especially the central river portion, and the South has an undeniable influence on New Orleans.



I didn't know that there was census figures on white trash. From what you are saying apparently it is a critical component of being southern to be white trash. Can blacks be southern? How bout hispanics who have been here for generations?

You completely missed the point. It's the Miami posters that are claiming that it is Southern because it has a lot of white trash. There's white trash everywhere, and the presence of such does not make a place Southern. And by the way, "southern" should be capitalized.

It's a unique place, but I've been there many times, and I don't see what's so northern about it. The food, music and literature are unique to S. Florida. That's why I don't understand why it's more northern than southern, that makes no sense to me. And then you have TexasBoi comment about the blacks in Miami, it coincides w/ much of what I've seen. Driving around the Miami area, the traffic and development pattern, I can't say feels more northern. I prefer looking at north/south things as far as geography regardless of what kind of cultural distinctions a place may have.

Miami certainly has its own culture and is its own place, but the influence of Yankee culture there is far greater than that of Southern culture. I'm not saying Miami is "Northern," but it certainly isn't Southern.

Miami is Miami. Is that okay?

You completely missed the point. It's the Miami posters that are claiming that it is Southern because it has a lot of white trash. There's white trash everywhere, and the presence of such does not make a place Southern. And by the way, "southern" should be capitalized.

We don't call it the south because of the white trash population. We call it the south because it is located in the south.

We don't choose to be Southerners, because that's something we are.

lot's of misconceptions about Miami here and it's time for a history lesson. The city was founded in 1896 decades after the Civil War so there were no ties to the Confederacy since the area was uninhabitated just like most of southern Florida at the time. The military established Fort Dallas in what is now Miami but abandonded it in the mid 1800s do to being under constant attack from the native indian tribes. The founder of Miami was Julia Tuttle who was a widow from CLEVELAND. She bought 600 acres on the banks of the Miami River. The other settlers & founders of Miami were Northerners, the Brickells, the Seawalls, the Fishers, etc.

When Henry Flagler( Standard Oil founder) brought his railroad to Miami in April 1896 he sold Miami as a resort city to rich Northerners. The workers who helped build the city were mostly Bahamians. The assertion that Miami is "southern" culturally" is non sense since it was never established by southerners. White southerners came to Miami after WW2 but blacks were already established here. TexasBoi made an interesting point because blacks in Miami identify with southern culture whereas I always considered black culture not southern to me, as wierd as that sounds.

The transplants to Miami were the Southerners not the Northerners since Miami was not established by them. It's not like Atlanta or Charlotte or any other southern city were carpetbaggers came afterwards. Is there southern culture in Miami? Yes but it's hardly noticeable. I've said my peace!

Umm....maybe because it's a fact that Houston is more diverse than Miami! You can keep arguing with me all you want but still your wrong!!! Miami is nothing but a gateway to latin america, filled with plenty of empty newly built condos!

Miami is only setting its self up for failure with all the things it's doing right now.

why don't you just do me a favor and stop comparing miami with houston, there both totally diff cities nothing to do with each other so theres no comparison. and i want to ask you a rather important question: do you assume that miami being just the "gateway to latin america" which is obviously not the only thing it does, even if that was the only thing it truly did, you think thats nothing? i mean considering how big latin america is i think thats a pretty big role miami has there.

Miami:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/kevchris/MiamiBeach-MiamiSkyline.jpg
Houston:
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/Mosqueda_911/downtown-houston-4a.jpg

totally different cities when it comes to pretty much everything, i did have a chance to go to houston is nice but its not nearly as diverse as Miami.

why don't you just do me a favor and stop comparing miami with houston, there both totally diff cities nothing to do with each other so theres no comparison. and i want to ask you a rather important question: do you assume that miami being just the "gateway to latin america" which is obviously not the only thing it does, even if that was the only thing it truly did, you think thats nothing? i mean considering how big latin america is i think thats a pretty big role miami has there.

Miami:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/kevchris/MiamiBeach-MiamiSkyline.jpg
Houston:
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/Mosqueda_911/downtown-houston-4a.jpg

totally different cities when it comes to pretty much everything, i did have a chance to go to houston is nice but its not nearly as diverse as Miami.

lol...you have no idea how big and international Houston is. I'll just leave it at that and let you have your own "opinion" while I stick with the "facts".

http://www.visithoustontexas.com/

why don't you just do me a favor and stop comparing miami with houston, there both totally diff cities nothing to do with each other so theres no comparison. and i want to ask you a rather important question: do you assume that miami being just the "gateway to latin america" which is obviously not the only thing it does, even if that was the only thing it truly did, you think thats nothing? i mean considering how big latin america is i think thats a pretty big role miami has there.

Miami:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/kevchris/MiamiBeach-MiamiSkyline.jpg
Houston:
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/Mosqueda_911/downtown-houston-4a.jpg

totally different cities when it comes to pretty much everything, i did have a chance to go to houston is nice but its not nearly as diverse as Miami.

Let's try this:

Houston:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/PortofHouston.jpg

Some people consider Miami/Broward to be South of the South and a little bit of the Caribbean in the US. In the same way a lot of folk consider the Pacific Coast States to be West of the West. Hawaii is the most western state in the country but really is'nt part of what most would consider the West.

trae that pic you provided of houston is fantastic but i wanted to provide a pic were you can actually see a close up of the buildings to show the difference. Houston has a more elegant downtown if you will, Miami has a more tropical/carribean downtown

Starke, Florida.

Just like Miami, L.A. and NYC rolled into one.

Let's try this:

Houston:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/PortofHouston.jpg

Nobody here wants to see grass. Next time post a good photo.:bash:

;)

Those are trees that cover up everything.

;)

Those are trees that cover up everything.

I actually like Houston's skyline. I've always been a huge fan, but that picture....:ohno:
I mean, I can barely notice the skyline.

Because it is so far out from the Port. Maybe this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Houston_Cityscape.jpg

^yea that ones good, btw bro houston has a world class skyline, its fantastic!

Houston and Miami are different but there are similarities. Both cities were found by Northerners.:lol:
TexasBoi made an interesting point because blacks in Miami identify with southern culture whereas I always considered black culture not southern to me, as wierd as that sounds.
That's not exactly what I was saying but it's close. What I'm saying is that the blacks in Miami and some hispanics do the same things as the blacks in Atlanta, Memphis, New Orleans, and Birmingham. The big cars, the food, the way of life. It's the same at least from what I've experienced and I go there every year. Just came back from there last week as a matter of fact.

^^Miami's big so it depends what area you go to

Miami, Ohio. :banana:

^^can you be any more stupid! my god you been acting like a retard ever since i joined the site

^^can you be any more stupid! my god you been acting stupid ever since i joined the site

That's the second time lol:

^^read some of this guys post, he doesnt even like skyscrapers haha all he writes is shit.

for example:
Harry Potter, is that you?

You need to unfluster. We're going to sing a song together to accomplish that:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=loWrI1FneSM

Wait. People still watch the NBA?

I don't have a beaver though.

This is soo freaking awesome. I've always wanted to learn chinese. :D :banana: :banana2:

Would somebody just give me the right info. :gaah: :wallbash: I want to punch somebody so badly right now. :lol:

im sorry i looked into your personal things gman but i just found it hilarious that you always post funny things that don't make sence. haha your a funny guy

^^Thanks for stalking me. ;)

^^can you be any more stupid! my god you been acting like a retard ever since i joined the site

I always act like a retard. It's nothing new. :ohno: This is an opinion thread and nothing more than that.

^^buddy your in a serious website, your not suppose to act like retard. for that you have myspace or some other sites but not ssc! :lol:

Metro'm, is that you? :D You like my squirrel?

^^Thanks for stalking me. ;)

You know you like it, G-man.

^^buddy your in a serious website, your not suppose to act like retard. for that you have myspace or some other sites but not ssc! :lol:

SSC, a serious website?:lol:

Oh yeah Waccamatt. I love the attention i'm getting. :lol:

SSC, a serious website?:lol:

have you seen the chicago forum, everything is boring thats how its meant to be haha

^^Giants win. YES, YES, YES: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3aXrI3c2fkA

^^haha, btw people nvm ssc being serious, its a complete joke haha. its hot though :banana:

Metro'm, is that you? :D You like my squirrel?

Metro.M is the worst character I have ever seen. That dude is a freaking pansy.

Metro.M is the worst character I have ever seen. That dude is a freaking pansy.

:lol::lol:

^yea that ones good, btw bro houston has a world class skyline, its fantastic!

lol... How can you say Houston is not nearly as diverse as Miami... Besides Latin America, what other strong immigrant population does Miami have... Heck.... Im sure if you go by the numbers... Miami has more total immigrants than Toronto.... but 99 percent of people know toronto is more diverse because all their immigrants do not come from one part of the world. Houston has a diverse latin population AS WELL as immigrants from all over Asia and Africa.

i didnt know their was a country called latin...all along i thought thier were dozens of countries in south america the carribeans and central america...all houston has is mexicans and some asians...mexicans are actually a raritty around here...unlike most of the country...oh thats really diverse...shit im surprised when somebody tells me thier mexican...even our white people are recent immigrants from europe...our jews are straight from israel....not to mention all the russians we have now...should check out the sunny isles skyline...shit our chinesse population is also growing like crazy...metro miami is truly a city of immigrants built by immigrants. miami is one of the few places in the world were u never know were somebodys from...color of a prson skin has a totally new meaning here...if ur black you could be african american haitian jamaican dominican or from the country of latin lol....if ur white the same thing...u can be a hick a spick or noen of the above or sometimes both lol...oh and asians too..even our asians u can never tell me because all thougout latin america thier are big numbers of asians especially in south america were half of our hispanics are from....truly a crazy concept...not to mention all the accents you have here...new yorke southern midwest...we just have it all here...the miami accent is one mixture of everything the world has to offer.

the south florida metro stats
White -- 72% [3,756,468] (of which 39% were Non-Hispanic White)
Black (many from the Caribbean [West Indians]) or African American -- 21% [1,075,174]
Native American -- less than 0.5% [10,582]
Asian (many of Indo-Caribbean origin) -- 2% [111,196]
Pacific Islander -- less than 0.5% [3,346]
Other races -- 5% [286,399]
Two or more races -- 2% [91,520]
Hispanic or Latino of any race were 38% [2,013,725] of the population

lol... How can you say Houston is not nearly as diverse as Miami... Besides Latin America, what other strong immigrant population does Miami have... Heck.... Im sure if you go by the numbers... Miami has more total immigrants than Toronto.... but 99 percent of people know toronto is more diverse because all their immigrants do not come from one part of the world. Houston has a diverse latin population AS WELL as immigrants from all over Asia and Africa.

people seem to think latin american isnt much if you will, well heres a map to show people what latin america is:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/kevchris/latin_america.gif

theres some huge cities: sao paolo, rio de janeiro, buenos aires, mexico city

here are some of the languages that can be spoken in latin american:
Spanish, Portuguese, Quechua, Aymara, Nahuatl, Mayan languages, Guaraní, Italian, English, French, Haitian Creole, German, Welsh, Dutch, Cantonese, Japanese, Vietnamese, and many others

lol... How can you say Houston is not nearly as diverse as Miami... Besides Latin America, what other strong immigrant population does Miami have... Heck.... Im sure if you go by the numbers... Miami has more total immigrants than Toronto.... but 99 percent of people know toronto is more diverse because all their immigrants do not come from one part of the world. Houston has a diverse latin population AS WELL as immigrants from all over Asia and Africa.

yes because we all know Latin Americans are all the same! No diversity there? Fujimora what? :bash:

yes because we all know Latin Americans are all the same! No diversity there? Fujimora what? :bash:

HUH?

People cant seem to take in the fact that Miami has a diverse population from not only Latin America which in itself is already diverse, but a huge Russian, French, English, Italian, and German population. While africans are not as large, Miami is known for having a large South African population. Neighborhoods in North Miami Beach (northern part of Miami) are completely asian with people from china, japan, india and pakistan, the same thing could be said about neighborhoods in West Kendall (southern part of Miami). Isrealis and other middle eastern communities are heavily noticable in and around the beach, and even far western suburbs. Sunny Isles (northeastern part of miami) has one of the most thriving russian communities in the country and its rapidly growing. especially Russian jews and french jews as well have both selected Miami as their relocation from the problems back home and their population growth is headline making.
Then you have the carribean community which in itself is also greatly diverse. Miami probaly has the largest carribean population in the country outside of New York, all of which include Jamaica, Haiti, Bahamas, virgin islands, ect.....

HUH?

He's talking about the diversity of Latin America itself, which has immigrants from around the world too making it really diverse, and Fujimoro is the ex-Peruvian president that was Japanese or vietnamnese.
And even with out the immigrants each country in latin america have their own accents, food, music, dance, and culture.

He's talking about the diversity of Latin America itself, which has immigrants from around the world too making it really diverse, and Fujimoro is the ex-Peruvian president that was Japanese or vietnamnese.
And even with out the immigrants each country in latin america have their own accents, food, music, dance, and culture.

He is Japanese.

Rhodhiss, N.C. is certainly the most cosmopolitan city in the South.:crazy2:

Atlanta looks like a simple backwater compared to Rhodhiss.:hahaha:

Miami, Atlanta, or Charleston.

Houston, Dallas, Atlanta

i didnt know their was a country called latin...all along i thought thier were dozens of countries in south america the carribeans and central america...all houston has is mexicans and some asians...mexicans are actually a raritty around here...unlike most of the country...oh thats really diverse...shit im surprised when somebody tells me thier mexican...even our white people are recent immigrants from europe...our jews are straight from israel....not to mention all the russians we have now...should check out the sunny isles skyline...shit our chinesse population is also growing like crazy...metro miami is truly a city of immigrants built by immigrants. miami is one of the few places in the world were u never know were somebodys from...color of a prson skin has a totally new meaning here...if ur black you could be african american haitian jamaican dominican or from the country of latin lol....if ur white the same thing...u can be a hick a spick or noen of the above or sometimes both lol...oh and asians too..even our asians u can never tell me because all thougout latin america thier are big numbers of asians especially in south america were half of our hispanics are from....truly a crazy concept...not to mention all the accents you have here...new yorke southern midwest...we just have it all here...the miami accent is one mixture of everything the world has to offer.




Both sides are showing ignorance of each other's metro. Miami has already been spoken for. But if you believe Houston is nothing but Mexicans as far as hispanics go, you are freaking wrong. Yes, Mexicans make up the majority of the hispanics in Houston. But Houston has the 3rd largest Salvadoran population in America. A very large Central American population such as Panamanian and Belizan population. Houston's black population is also diverse. It may not have a large carribbean population. But it does have a large West African population. Such as the 3rd largest Nigerian population in the WORLD behind Nigeria itself and London. Point is, Houston can go blow for blow with Miami when it comes to diversity and Miami can go blow for blow with Houston when it comes to diversity. They both are diverse in different ways.

I don't know if there is any clear winner for this. Miami is geographically Southern, but not historically or culturally. I think a city needs to be geographically, historically and culturally Southern to make this list. Houston is pushing it. Atlanta and New Orleans prolly take the cake on this. But personally I prefer the smaller cities and towns like Savannah, Charleston, Wilmington, Asheville, etc. :)

Dallas, but you guys dont consider us as part of the south.

Technically the whole DFW Metroplex

Dallas, but you guys dont consider us as part of the south.

yes we do, but i don't think dallas is that cosmopolitan or diverse for that matter, houston is a better candidate to represent texas when it comes to this.

how is Houston diverse?

^^idk dude they just said that previously, houston and miami are the most diverse cities in the south according to statistics and opinions

how is Houston diverse?

Don't tell me you are serious.

what stats? From what Ive heard from sources abroad, Dallas is a pretty big thing in other countries.

k which city is more important to the world, houston or dallas? well hmmmm check this out:



Findings

An examination of economic connections among cities' global advanced service firms finds that:




While New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles are the U.S. leaders in global connectivity, San Francisco, Miami, Atlanta, and Washington are also important nodes in the world city network. A mixture of regional capitals—such as Boston and Seattle—and specialist cities—such as Houston, the world's energy capital—are found in the next tier. Somewhat surprisingly, dynamic and growing Phoenix and San Jose have relatively low connectivities.




U.S. cities overall—and particularly non-coastal cities—are generally less globally connected than their European Union and Pacific Asian counterparts. Sixteen EU cities and 11 Pacific Asian cities rank among the top 50 most globally-connected cities, while only seven U.S. cities make the cut. Chicago is the only high ranking U.S. city not located in a coastal state.




While important service connections exist among certain U.S. cities and particular global regions, U.S. cities are more strongly linked to other U.S. cities than to cities around the globe. New York is the only U.S. city with more non-U.S. cities than U.S. cities in its top ten list of strongest global connections. Only three non-U.S. cities make Miami's top 10 list, for example, while Pittsburgh's list contains none.




Even the most globally-connected U.S. cities are more locally oriented than cities in the EU. New York and Miami are the least locally oriented of U.S. cities, but even they are far more U.S.-centric in their connections than most European cities are EU-centric. A much larger number of EU cities boast strong connections to Latin America and Pacific Asia than cities in the U.S.




Beyond localism, functional linkages among firms are more important determinants of connectedness than geography alone. While Europe has no American Pacific Coast city linkages, for example, it has many international financial centers with strong connections to the rising banking and finance hubs of Pacific Asia. Many of these cities, as well as New York, are much more oriented to the Pacific Rim than San Francisco, Seattle, or even Los Angeles.



As cities aim to position themselves better economically, they must remember that they operate in a global marketplace. Cities able to grow and attract globally-connected, high-value service firms can access, and benefit from, a worldwide array of customers, workers, and contracted services, ultimately boosting quality growth at home.


http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2005/02cities_taylor.aspx

it appears that none

what stats? From what Ive heard from sources abroad, Dallas is a pretty big thing in other countries.

Houston has more than two times as many foreign consulate offices than Dallas.

New York: 122
Los Angeles: 87
Houston: 86




Miami: 63
Atlanta: 55









Dallas: 30

http://www.houston.org/blackfenders/18AW001.pdf

^^TI in the house. :D "Big things poppin and little things stompin"

That isn't TI in my avatar. TI is horrible.

That isn't TI in my avatar. TI is horrible.

FOR ONCE WE AGREE!!!!!!

Houston has more than two times as many foreign consulate offices than Dallas.

That could simply mean Houston has more foreign business than Dallas, or more foreign nationals than Dallas (i.e. Dallas could have the same ethnic makeup as Houston but more people are American citizens here), or maybe Houston was a bigger city when most of those consulates opened and since Dallas is close by there isn't much of a reason to open another one there. My point is, it doesn't say much of anything about diversity.

I don't think Houston and Dallas are all that different as far as ethnic diversity go. They probably both have about the same number of ethnic groups. And while Houston may have more of some groups, Dallas has more of others. For example maybe Houston has more Mexicans, Vietnamese, and Hondurans but Dallas has more Germans, Swedes, and Koreans. In the end they come out looking the same. I could see both cities being in the same group as Miami, though I am tempted to say they are ahead of it, but for sure they are ahead of Atlanta.

Houston, overall, is more diverse than Dallas. Not saying Dallas isn't diverse, just not as diverse as Houston.

You're both right. Whatever Houston has, Dallas has. But Houston has them in bigger numbers. For instance, the Nigerian population is pretty big in both cities. However, Houston has more. Alot more in fact.

Houston has around 3 "China Town's" or other Asian centers.

Nigerians? Chinese? seriously? We use these 2 cultures to decide if Houston is better than Dallas? now i have seen everything.


Why do i get the feeling im like the only Dallas guy on this forum? I need to get the Dallas Metroplex forum guys over here.

Nigerians? Chinese? seriously? We use these 2 cultures to decide if Houston is better than Dallas? now i have seen everything.


Why do i get the feeling im like the only Dallas guy on this forum? I need to get the Dallas Metroplex forum guys over here.

Two examples. There are more.

Two examples. There are more.

There are some ethnic groups that have more people in Houston, and some that have more people in Dallas. I think it pretty much evens out.

DUDE! have you completely ignored the comments here!?!?
Miami has the extensive diverse hispanics, but theres huge carribean islanders, Europeans, and large Asian communities too. Theres more than 100,000 asians in south florida!

Only 100,000? Dude, Metro Atlanta has close to 300,000 Asians, and that's fewer than what you find in Houston. My mom's real-estate firm works with Asian businesses in Atlanta and Texas. Florida is basically off her map and those of many other Asian businesses in the South.

Miami registers practically nothing in the minds of Asians or Asian-Americans. You wonder why anyone flying to Asia from Florida has to connect in Atlanta or Houston?

^^Top 25 Counties in the U.S. ranked by Largest
Asian Population, 2000

County, State Number Rank
-------------------------------------------------------
Los Angeles, CA 1,137,500 1
Santa Clara, CA 430,095 2
Honolulu, HI 403,371 3
Queens, NY 391,500 4
Orange, CA 386,785 5
Alameda, CA 295,218 6
Cook, IL 260,170 7
San Diego, CA 249,802 8
San Francisco, CA 239,565 9
King, WA 187,745 10
Kings, NY 185,818 11
Harris, TX 174,626 12
New York, NY 144,538 13
San Mateo, CA 141,684 14
Sacramento, CA 134,899 15
Fairfax, VA 126,038 16
Middlesex, NJ 104,212 17
Contra Costa, CA 103,993 18
Montgomery, MD 98,651 19
Bergen, NJ 94,324 20
Middlesex, MA 91,685 21
Dallas, TX 88,369 22
San Bernardino, CA 80,217 23
Clark, NV 72,547 24
Du Page, IL 71,252 25

Source: U.S. Census Bureau,
County and City Data Book: 2000,
Table B-2.

Among Americans age 5 and over, 47 million speak a language other than English at home (about 18 percent of the population)a growth of 47 percent between 1990 and 2000.

4.1 million Muslims live in the U.S.

Muslim Americans tend to be heavily concentrated in Detroit, Chicago, New York and Los Angeles. Detroits population includes more Muslims than virtually any other U.S. city. McDonalds restaurants in the Detroit area now provide halal Chicken McNuggets for the growing population of Muslim customers there.
2.5 million Buddhists live in the U.S.

1 million Hindus live in the U.S. Another 100,000 live in Canada. Edison, New Jersey, has the highest concentration of Hindus in the U.S.

About a quarter million Sikhs live in America, with 100,000 living on each coast. Other areas with high numbers of Sikhs are Chicago, Detroit, and Austin, Texas.

New York City has the largest Chinatown in the United States, with an estimated population in excess of 100,000, excluding undocumented illegal aliens. Counting the illegals could easily double that number.

Orange County in California has the largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam at 233,000.

The largest concentration of Afghans is in Freemont, California.

The largest numbers of immigrants coming into Seattle are from the Philippines, Vietnam and South Korea.

Vietnamese and South Koreans top the list of immigrants coming into the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Miami is the Latino capital of the United States with Latinos and Hispanics making up 57 percent of the Miami-Dade County population.

About half of all Arab-Americans live in five states: California, Florida, Michigan, New Jersey and New York. One of the highest concentrations of Arab-Americans can be found in Dearborn, Michigan, where roughly 30 percent of the population is of Arab descent.

Jews make up roughly 2 percent of the U.S. population. More Jews live in the U.S. than in Israel.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of the worlds richest and fastest-growing religious movements. The Mormon church today has a worldwide membership of 11 million more than half outside the U.S. If current trends hold, Mormons could number 265 million worldwide by 2080, second only in number to Roman Catholics. Such an increase in membership may be attributed to an aggressive missionary program that enlists more than 60 percent of all young Mormons.

http://blog.l2foundation.org/category/demographics/

just interisting facts i thought you might want to know

For instance, the Nigerian population is pretty big in both cities. However, Houston has more. Alot more in fact.

I would let Houston win the Nigerian population race every day of the week. In fact, you can claim the Dallas population too, if you guys want.

They're mostly all a bunch of crooks and scam artists.

I would let Houston win the Nigerian population race every day of the week. In fact, you can claim the Dallas population too, if you guys want.

They're mostly all a bunch of crooks and scam artists.

No they are not.

I guess white people are all apart of the KKK.

I would let Houston win the Nigerian population race every day of the week. In fact, you can claim the Dallas population too, if you guys want.

They're mostly all a bunch of crooks and scam artists.and rednecks like you lack education and sleep with pigs....:bash:

^^Blueberry is that you? :D :hug:

I would let Houston win the Nigerian population race every day of the week. In fact, you can claim the Dallas population too, if you guys want.

They're mostly all a bunch of crooks and scam artists.
You're better than this. Why would you make this type of comment?

Sorry guys. Perhaps my wording was too strong. I'm sure there are many law-abiding Nigerian ex-pats here in Texas. However, my father-in-law works in Nigeria and can tell first hand stories of how corrupt and seedy the country can be.

I remember just a few years ago a local news story on a FBI bust of a Nigerian counterfeit check and identity theft ring based out of Houston. Any Google search on the subject of Nigerian scams will bring up pages and pages on the subject (mostly on the 419 scam that people are still falling prey to).

Sorry guys. Perhaps my wording was too strong. I'm sure there are many law-abiding Nigerian ex-pats here in Texas. However, my father-in-law works in Nigeria and can tell first hand stories of how corrupt and seedy the country can be.

I remember just a few years ago a local news story on a FBI bust of a Nigerian counterfeit check and identity theft ring based out of Houston. Any Google search on the subject of Nigerian scams will bring up pages and pages on the subject (mostly on the 419 scam that people are still falling prey to).

^^That is seriously weak. Do you know how many scams are run by whites? And my dad is Nigerian, and I have been there twice (last was in 2000), and sometimes go to the Nigerian areas of Houston, and don't notice anything different. Many Nigerians have been living in America for so long, that their kids blend in with the American Blacks (like me).

Although Geaux tigers comment was out of line I am sure it wasnt ment in a racist way. So to be fair with the conversation and to Geaux tigers it would be more correct to say "do you know how many scams are run by Russians,Sweds,Irish?" etc. He was speaking specificly about immigrant Nigerians and your talking about all White Americans.

^^That is seriously weak. Do you know how many scams are run by whites? And my dad is Nigerian, and I have been there twice (last was in 2000), and sometimes go to the Nigerian areas of Houston, and don't notice anything different. Many Nigerians have been living in America for so long, that their kids blend in with the American Blacks (like me).

why don't you enlighten us! Do you know the number of scams run by white people? You are no better than he is with your comments.

I would let Houston win the Nigerian population race every day of the week. In fact, you can claim the Dallas population too, if you guys want.

They're mostly all a bunch of crooks and scam artists.

You're way out of line here, Geaux Tigers.
I would have expected better from you. Never put a entire group of people in a single derogatory bucket. That's just one slippery step away from Adolph Hitler.

(My roommate in college was from Lagos and he was neither a crook nor a scam artist.)

why don't you enlighten us! Do you know the number of scams run by white people? You are no better than he is with your comments.

I didn't mean it at all. Just wanted to see what Geaux Tigers would have to say back.

I'm dropping the subject. I'd suggest you do the same.

I think Orlando is three times more cosmopolitan than Atalnta, Miami, Houston, and New Orleans..

Give me a break. Orlando is a bunch of sprawl with amusement parks.

Give me a break. Orlando is a bunch of sprawl with amusement parks.

It was a joke.

Give me a break. Orlando is a bunch of sprawl with amusement parks.

I'm sure this was meant jokingly but downtown Orlando is small but very underrated. It is very walkable, has a lot of character and is seeing a lot of development.