KEEP THIS ONE ON TOPIC OR I'LL BRIG YOU!

anyway to start off-

Johnson puts hand up for Liberal leader

16th January 2008, 13:45 WST









Shadow Police Minister Rob Johnson has declared himself a contender in the Liberal leadership race, saying he has been urged by a “great number of people” to challenge for the top job if there is a leadership spill at tomorrow’s party room meeting.

Mr Johnson told reporters today that he would vote against a leadership spill tomorrow because he thought Paul Omodei was a good leader, but if there had to be one he would put his name forward.

HAVE YOUR SAY: Who should lead the Liberals? Click here

“I’ve been urged to do that by a great number of people and I think what I can offer the party at this moment in time is a steady set of hands and a low risk in the run up to the next election,” he said.

“You never know until people fill in their ballot papers … I believe there are a lot of people who support me and you might be surprised by an outcome.”

Mr Johnson, who has been a long-time critic of leadership aspirant and current deputy Troy Buswell, said he felt it necessary to enter into the leadership fray as Mr Omodei had lost some support due to dismal performances in the opinion polls and recent revelations of a smear campaigns against Mr Buswell from within his office.

He said a strong alternative to Mr Buswell was needed.

“I have a concern there has been so much disruption within the State Liberal parliamentary team that unless we can come together we will not go forward and win the next election,” he said.

The 64-year-old Hillarys MP, who has 15 years of parliamentary experience, denied that he was too old to be leader, saying he had political wisdom and enthusiasm. He has informed both Mr Omodei and Mr Buswell of his intention.

Mr Johnson said he would have no problems working with Mr Buswell if the Vasse MP assumed the leadership tomorrow. He refused to comment on Mr Buswell's suitability for the job.

He said tomorrow’s meeting had been rushed and was disappointed not all Liberal MPs could attend.

Mr Buswell has refused to officially throw his hat in the ring, but is widely tipped to seize the leadership and be handed the unenviable task of steering the Liberal Party out of the mess it has created.

MPs in Mr Buswell’s camp say he should win by a comfortable majority and doubt whether Mr Johnson is a serious threat.

Tomorrow’s meeting is scheduled for 11am at Parliament House.

KATE CAMPBELL

screw the liberals, I hate them. But the good thing is the more they bicker, the better chance of labor getting in again :)

The liberal party will lose seats in the upcoming election. The government need to expolit this and start announcing new things in order to give themselvs that image they need to win more seats.

lol i think Carps doesnt have to do anything! the libs are shooting themselves in the foot!

That's not good because labor will get complacent and lazy. I'd rather we had a reasonable oposition. I saw a recent poll where libs did very well it's just that omodei was considered deadweight. I betya whoever ends up taking over from him will enjoy fairly good support.

Ten set to bring its news back to Perth


After seven years of being broadcast from Sydney, Channel 10’s local news bulletin is heading back to Perth.

Network bosses denied the decision was expedited because of the death of local newsreader Charmaine Dragun, whose body was found at The Gap in Sydney in November.

She was said to be battling depression and had complained of isolation and loneliness while presenting Perth’s news from Ten’s Sydney studios but Ten Perth general manager Simon Martin said that Ms Dragun had known of the plans to move the bulletin back to Perth.

He said that while Ms Dragun’s death had been very hard on her family, friends and colleagues, the move had been in the pipeline for 12 months.

It is planned for May to coincide with Ten Perth’s 20th anniversary.

“Charmaine was well aware we were working on this, she was a part of our trials, she was very excited about the very good possibility that it was going to happen,” he said. “Our timing was always going to be about the middle of this year.”

The network’s decision to move the news production and presentation to Sydney in 2000 was seen as a snub to Perth and further evidence of an Eastern States bias that left WA isolated.

Ten blamed the $30 million cost of converting Perth from analogue to digital and only the Sydney and Melbourne studios were upgraded.

Sport and weather continued to be broadcast from Perth.

Mr Martin said advances in technology had made it viable to move the presenting back to WA.

He said AFL broadcasts in high definition had required upgrades to infrastructure, which also made the move possible. The weeknight news bulletin has always been gathered and edited in Perth but Mr Martin admitted it was difficult to push the local angle with the news presented out of Sydney.

He said several local candidates were being considered for the news anchor’s job and a decision was expected in the next month.

Mr Martin refused to say who was being considered for the plum role but industry sources say Channel 9 presenter Sonia Vinci, who is rumoured to be nearing the end of her contract, is one possibility.

Another is Christina Morrissy, who co-anchored the first news transmissions from Sydney with Greg Pearce before each quit because of family commitments in Perth.

woo. channel 10 grows a conscience.

That's not good because labor will get complacent and lazy. I'd rather we had a reasonable oposition. I saw a recent poll where libs did very well it's just that omodei was considered deadweight. I betya whoever ends up taking over from him will enjoy fairly good support.

Lets not forget FEderal labor were seen as a total rabble until Kevin Rudd got the gig. It just takes one decent opposition leader and a complacent govt is out on its ass.

and I'm guessing apart from Mctiernan (who everyone on here is in love with) the rest of the labor party isn't anything to rave about.

That's not good because labor will get complacent and lazy. I'd rather we had a reasonable oposition. I saw a recent poll where libs did very well it's just that omodei was considered deadweight. I betya whoever ends up taking over from him will enjoy fairly good support.

I'd prefer a good opposition and have them slugging it out policy after policy to win our votes. As it stands Labor can just sit back and say "Yeah, you know you wanna vote for us"

The network’s decision to move the news production and presentation to Sydney in 2000 was seen as a snub to Perth and further evidence of an Eastern States bias that left WA isolated.

Thats good news that it is returning. Though the reporting leaves out the fact that it was a national cost cutting drive by Ten rather then a 'snub to Perth'. Then also moved Adelaide's news to Melbourne and killed Ten Capital's news (Canberra, Victoria, Tasmania) which was replaced with Melbourne's local broadcast.

Presumably Brisbane's news stayed in Brisbane? Does Ten do a regional news like what Prime and WIN do? When you're out in the country, in say Albury, the 6pm news would be the local rural news with a capital city broadcast delayed til 6:30.

Good to see Ten going back to Perth. To do the local news from 4000km away on the complete opposite coast seems absurd.

Rob Johnson is the perfect man to lead the Liberals in WA. Every time they interview him on the news I have always thought he makes sense in what he says.

Go Rob!

Presumably Brisbane's news stayed in Brisbane? Does Ten do a regional news like what Prime and WIN do? When you're out in the country, in say Albury, the 6pm news would be the local rural news with a capital city broadcast delayed til 6:30.

Good to see Ten going back to Perth. To do the local news from 4000km away on the complete opposite coast seems absurd.


Brisbane kept theirs yes. Ten regional (which is now Southern Cross Ten I think) used to have an hourly local news for regional areas, but it was axed in 2001. After that they just sourced their news feed from the local capital city. So the channel has no regional local news program other then for a 1/2 hour weekly show.

Presumably Brisbane's news stayed in Brisbane? Does Ten do a regional news like what Prime and WIN do? When you're out in the country, in say Albury, the 6pm news would be the local rural news with a capital city broadcast delayed til 6:30.

Good to see Ten going back to Perth. To do the local news from 4000km away on the complete opposite coast seems absurd.


Not really absurd, distance isn't so much of a factor these days. A lot of services are 'offshored' significantly further than a few thousand k's.
It's good to see it back though, it may lead to some locally driven decision making and from and SSC perspective, potentially additional requirement for floorspace.

Lets not forget FEderal labor were seen as a total rabble until Kevin Rudd got the gig. It just takes one decent opposition leader and a complacent govt is out on its ass.

Except that Buswell is a fat twit, a former tour bus operator. Im not expecting any decent policies from this dweeb.

Except that Buswell is a fat twit, a former tour bus operator. Im not expecting any decent policies from this dweeb.

True but that doesn't contradict what Matt said :lol:

Omodei backs down as Libs choose Buswell

17th January 2008, 12:00 WST

Paul Omodei today pulled out of the race for leadership of the State Liberal Party, leaving Troy Buswell to triumph over Rob Johnson in the resulting leadership vote.

Dawesville MLA Kim Hames was selected as deputy Liberal leader over shadow environment and planning minister Steve Thomas.

Parliamentary secretary for the Liberal Party Ray Halligan made the announcement just after midday today.

He said Mr Omodei moved for a leadership spill this morning, but declined to re-nominate for the leadership for the good of the party.

There was more drama this morning with Murdoch MLA Travor Sprigg, the shadow sport and recreation minister, suffering a heart attack on the way to the meeting.

The meeting was held up for 25 minutes as the party waited for Mr Sprigg, who had earlier this morning confirmed he would be attending.

Members were later informed by South Perth MLA John McGrath, who is good friends with Mr Sprigg, that he had been rushed to Fremantle Hospital earlier this morning.

His condition is not yet known.

Mr Omodei agreed to the party room meeting on Tuesday at the urging of Mr Buswell, who was widely tipped by political analysts and senior Liberal MPs to win the leadership vote.

Mr Omodei’s leadership had been under pressure for months for failing to get traction against the government and consistently dismal ratings in personal opinion polls.

But Mr Buswell’s leadership bid was derailed in the past fortnight as revelations emerged of his drunken antics at Parliament House, which included snapping the bra-strap of a female staffer.

When the allegations surfaced, Mr Buswell ruled himself out of the leadership, claiming he lacked the experience for the position.

But after cutting short a family holiday to Japan on Tuesday to confront the crisis, Mr Buswell threw himself back into the leadership race.

MICHAEL BENNETT

Now we wait for Buswell to run his course and Rob to ascend to leader for the election.

Buswell looks more of a chump than Omodei.

Politics is nothing without two sides of equal calibre. No government is effective without a sharp opposition. Yawn.

Except that Buswell is a fat twit, a former tour bus operator. Im not expecting any decent policies from this dweeb.

And who's going to vote for a drunk in Parliament? Along with the redistribution, the Liberals have no hope of winning this election! :lol:

Well Allanah got done for drunk driving in the first months of her first term and she got re-elected, look at her now!

Well Allanah got done for drunk driving in the first months of her first term and she got re-elected, look at her now!

That was outside of Parliament. Pulling female bra stap and making sexist comments while on the job also don't make him a suitable leader. :lol: I can't imagine that being popular with the ladies. Katie Hodson Thomas has quit politics today, she was the woman that made some of the allegations.

Not to mention how he said he is not fit for the job only 6 days ago.

This man is certainly not premier material and will go down as the liberals biggest loser.

He looks more like a labor affiliated union boss than a liberal leader. I suspect he'll move on b4 the elections or just suffer a humiliating defeat. As everyone said though we need a credible opposition to get some decent policies out of the incumbent.

Rob Johnson is a good man with 15 years experience and a very nice media approach, one of the few liberals who can articlulate a point.

Im not sure why the party didnt support him.

Rob Johnson is a good man with 15 years experience and a very nice media approach, one of the few liberals who can articlulate a point.

Im not sure why the party didnt support him.

Because it's bshit party politics and who gets what in the process. Not the greater good.

Quite an eventful day for the party...

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=145&ContentID=54867

Murdoch MLA Trevor Sprigg dead at 61
17th January 2008, 12:30 WST

Trevor Sprigg, the Liberal member for Murdoch, has died in Fremantle Hospital. He was 61.

The father of five children aged between 16 and 38 suffered a heart attack while travelling to today’s Liberal Party leadership meeting at Parliament House. Mr Sprigg also had six grandchildren.

A Fremantle Hospital spokeswoman confirmed that Mr Sprigg, who was the shadow spokesman for sport and recreation, had died a short time ago.

Mr Sprigg flew back to WA from Brisbane last night for today’s leadership vote. He had been holidaying on the Gold Coast.

Mr Sprigg forged a career as a popular sports broadcaster on ABC TV and radio after a 152-game career with the East Fremantle Football Club.

He also held prominent positions with various sporting clubs in WA, including the West Coast Eagles.

The shock death has led former Liberal leader Paul Omedei to cancel a press conference that was scheduled to take place at 12.30pm.

A clearly shaken Mr Omodei said he would either read a prepared statement later today or speak to the media tomorrow.

Newly appointed Liberal leader Troy Buswell is expected to still hold a press conference planned for 1.30pm.

LUKE ELIOT AND MICHAEL BENNETT
I could have sworn that the headline said "dead at 51," not 61, when I clicked on it. Now I know why the West's website frequently refreshes itself the way it does...

^ironic. rip.

he was an ex footballer with east fremantle in his younger days:

http://www.footballlegends.org/images/trevorsprigg.gif

ABC website that had it wrong at 51 for a while too.

Katie Hodson-Thomas quits the ‘boys club’

17th January 2008, 10:30 WST







The State Liberal party leadership controversy has already claimed an unlikely scalp, with Carine MLA Katie Hodson-Thomas announcing her shock retirement from politics at the end of her current term.

Ms Hodon-Thomas became embroiled in a bitter leadership contest between leader Paul Omodei and his deputy Troy Buswell when she claimed Mr Buswell had made inappropriate remarks to her in front of a “large number” of male colleagues.


HAVE YOUR SAY: Is State Parliament a "boys club"? Click here

She went on to accuse the State Parliament of being a “boys’ club” and said members on both sides of politics needed to raise their standards regarding the treatment of female colleagues.

An emotional Ms Hodson-Thomas said her decision wasn’t based on the potential for Mr Buswell to become leader at a party room meeting being held this morning.

“It is time for someone else who has the passion that I had 11 years ago to take over,” she said.

The shadow minister for tourism and small business will retire at the next State election, due early next year.

Ms Hodson-Thomas was also the subject of unwelcome headlines when her son Curtis was convicted of drink driving after borrowing his mother’s taxpayer-funded government car.

Mr Hodson-Thomas was clocked by police driving at 108kmh in a 60kmh zone and after being stopped by police was found to have a blood alcohol reading of 0.131.

MICHAEL BENNETT and LIAM PHILLIPS

_____________________________________


everyones jumping off this sinking ship they call the liberal party.

^^ She looks so much like Maxine McKew:

Katie Hodson-Thomas:
http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/Memblist.nsf/(MemberPics)/1EBA5470A9D11D97482565D2001EBCD3/$File/katiehodsonthomas.jpg

Maxine McKew:
http://www.maxinemckew.alp.org.au/images/tpl/maxine.jpg

shes decent looking and a reasonably decent politician. Too bad the party shoved her towards the back.

Yeh I met her last year, she was a guest in the business centre i work in, seemed like a nice lady.

She studies at ECU Joondalup.

I hope for the sake of Western Australia the liberals can stabilise, effectivly with all ALP parties in power Australia wide, and the liberals in tatters, there is little accountability and oposition in Australia to keep the government in check... I can't see Troy doing a Kevin, they need a strong leader with some credibility

They need Rob Johnson. The man is smart, sensible, articulate and experienced.

His english accent will also wash well with so many people in WA and as a contrast to carps' country aussie accent.

are you kidding, his english accent gives me the shits, it's Western Australia, not the British Royal Family.

Tell that to all the people living in North London, err I mean Perth's northern suburbs.

Theres a reason he has had Hillarys in the bag for the Liberals for 15 years. He speaks the language.

Hey don't knock Carps' accent. He's an Albany lad like me:(

Well Allanah got done for drunk driving in the first months of her first term and she got re-elected, look at her now!

LOL Andy.

Sometimes you make me laugh so much with your comments. I nearly wet myself when you called me a 'grey'.

I wouldn't mind the greens taking the advantage of the state of the liberals nationwide, and pushing thier party forward, I prefer the greens to the liberals.

The Green already get more votes than the Nationals. Its just that their votes arent concentrated enough to get them a seat in the lower house.

I remember reading something saying the Green vote is expected to be about 20% in 10 years or so, its already nudging 10% in a lot of areas.

man this led shit through freo is giving me the shits
fuck of tagula "farie" and fuck off stupid petition signing residents, wheres the resident to get it going , im a fucking resident.

FUCK

man this led shit through freo is giving me the shits
fuck of tagula "farie" and fuck off stupid petition signing residents, wheres the resident to get it going , im a fucking resident.

FUCK

Why would you want more lead shipped through Fremantle?

Because its perfectly safe and good for the economy.

If you read the conditions placed on the export, you would be reasonably impressed.

This is just loser tagliferi and all the freo NIMBYs having an opportunity to whinge about something

Because its perfectly safe and good for the economy.

If you read the conditions placed on the export, you would be reasonably impressed.

This is just loser tagliferi and all the freo NIMBYs having an opportunity to whinge about something

And I guess the Esperance Port Authority let it through on the condition it was "not perfectly safe" then? :lol:

I don't mind one way or the other, but if I lived very close to Fremantle, I'd be organising the petition.

This lead will be teansported totally differently through Freo than it was in Esperance. They probably chose Esperance because they could get away with much less stringent conditions than at Freo, so saved money. But if they are then forced to go worlds best practice, then may as well go to Freo. I'd be happy living in freo near this no worries... it is not like it is nuclear waste.

I'm sure it will be transported safely. Why should the residents chose what comes in and out of the port, screw them.

Either way lead's not going to kill us first. I'm more likely to die from the carcinogens used to grow the dodgy foreign fruits/vegetables, not to mention the seafood and all the other crap we keep shoving down our gobs.

Maybe, but don't expect residents to sit around like morons when there could very possibly be a repeat of the incidents in Esperance.

But you have to wonder, if these people actually have anything better to do. It's as if all they do is whinge.

Maybe, but don't expect residents to sit around like morons when there could very possibly be a repeat of the incidents in Esperance.

but residents are generally morons so what's wrong with acting like one.
moron=reject ANYTHING at face value without considering the facts.

Taken from The Australian website, nice little of diversification


Quickstep's first deal for WA factory

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Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | January 18, 2008

COMPOSITES specialist Quickstep Holdings is giving the historic West Australian port of Fremantle a taste of 21st century aerospace technology.

The company has spent about $6 million setting up its Fremantle headquarters with state of the art equipment to manufacture aircraft components, and already has its first contract.

While details of the contract are under wraps - Quickstep is saying only that it will manufacture a 2m auxiliary component for light aircraft - it opens the door to a fast-growing segment of the aerospace industry.

Quickstep chief executive Nick Noble said the composites business was booming but there were not many Australian companies in the field.

"The idea is that you use the money to buy the kit and now it's time to find the contracts and make it work," Mr Noble said.

"We've got our first contract and we've got a lot of good stuff coming up as well."

The manufacturer has a contract to build five of the components, with the possibility of 200 more to come.

It is also out looking for more work in what is tipped to become a $US30 billion ($34 billion) global industry by 2026.

Quickstep has a proprietary process based on fluid-based curing that significantly cuts the cost and time involved in producing composite components.

It has six pilot plants around the world and global alliances with major international advanced materials suppliers.

It listed on the stock exchange in 2005 and last year undertook a $17 million capital raising which included a 6 per cent investment by Macquarie Funds Management.

The move into aircraft component manufacturing prompted the company to recruit three senior production staff from Airbus and to re-engineer its Fremantle headquarters.

The appointments include composites veterans Keith Brand as clean-room team leader and Sean Scammell as his assistant.

This included bringing in a CATIA computer-aided design system and a Leica laser tracker used to measure and inspect patterns, tooling and parts.

Still on order are three autoclaves and a Breton five-axis machining centre, believed to be one of the most accurate of its kind in Western Australia.

Two large autoclaves will be used to make carbon composite tooling and production parts, while a smaller one will be used to make specialised silicon diaphragms for the Quickstep process.

"We've now got all the major capital items ordered up and there are a few short lead-time items that are about to be ordered up so they all come in at the same time," Mr Noble said.

"And with all these new guys we've got virtually all the people we need. We've got one more guy that we're chasing and that will sort all that out.

"So we'll have the equipment, we'll have the people, we'll have the capability and we'll be in business."

Quickstep hopes to get the parts certified by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority in the first half of this calendar year.

but residents are generally morons so what's wrong with acting like one.
moron=reject ANYTHING at face value without considering the facts.

They've considered the facts.

There are two opinions here: One that it is extremely unlikely that contamination will occur in Fremantle, and the other being that there is a possibility that contamination can occur.

While I'm sure most here would think along #1, most residents wouldn't want to take the risk, and I completely understand that choice. It is just like the nuclear debate in Australia. Sure, we probably won't have a Chernobyl happen here, but you just never know, do you? It could make areas of the country uninhabitable for many decades, and therefore people aren't willing to take the risk.

A lot of the time residents are il-informed and just take the info off what they see on the news, or what they are told by their local council whos against it, "selective detail".

If you knew anything about Chernobyl it was built ridiculously fast, carelessly, and a lot of human error occured due to pressure from higher rankings due to politics.

I'm a resident willing to take the risk.

cernobyal or however you spell it was constantly overloaded by the stingy soviet union who did not want to build another power station.

Once lead starts going through freo, we will not hear of it again.

They've considered the facts.

There are two opinions here: One that it is extremely unlikely that contamination will occur in Fremantle, and the other being that there is a possibility that contamination can occur.

While I'm sure most here would think along #1, most residents wouldn't want to take the risk, and I completely understand that choice. It is just like the nuclear debate in Australia. Sure, we probably won't have a Chernobyl happen here, but you just never know, do you? It could make areas of the country uninhabitable for many decades, and therefore people aren't willing to take the risk.

I can assure you that 95% of those who object wouldn't even bother checking the facts and just going by face value. That fact notwhistanding you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's a risk (be it minimal) that noone wants to take. This is a symptom of our society which effectively is the reason for this stagnant state. In every aspect of our lives we never really achieve anything above mediocrity if we don't take any risks. Just go through life being average and eventually drop off.
Ironically there's probably a greater likelihood of dying from a car crach every time we step out of the house but that doesn't stop anyone from driving.

anyone see all the people protesting against the fremantle marina developement?
grr

yeh loved allanahs response. she said well this is what a public comment period is and the people have commented and we will take their concerns on board.

I got the impression that she seemed undeterred, as usual.

perhaps a slow down to the sprawl...

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=55266

Is boom end nigh as brickies hit the wall?
21st January 2008, 5:00 WST

WA trade workers could be at the beginning of the end of the building boom, with some trade rates dropping by a fifth and wait lists all but disappearing.

The Master Builders Association said residential construction had dropped to a normal activity level, with builders clearing projects that were in the pipeline following a glut of sales at the height of the boom.

MBA Housing spokesman Gavan Forster said many bricklayers working in the project home market, which is typically for low and middle income earners, had recently suffered a rate drop from $1.20 to 80¢ a brick.

The luxury end of the market was still strong, with an average rate of $1.20 a brick. Price reductions in other trades had also started, but to a lesser degree.

Mr Forster said the decrease in dwelling approvals, from 1879 last November compared with 2169 in June 2006, had helped ease pressure on the length of time it took to build a home. Residential homes now took an average 12 months, compared with about 18 months at the height of the boom.

The easing pressure was reflected in the MBA’s Building Industry Employment Monitor which showed a drop from 60 daily ads for bricklayers in this newspaper about 12 to 18 months ago, compared with only two or three now.

MBA director Michael McLean predicted the residential market would remain steady this year, with only minor price rises of about 5 per cent based partly on an increase in the cost of building materials, and a buoyant commercial market.

A builder who did not want to be named said bricklayers and some finishing tradesmen were flocking to employers who had not dropped their rates.

“We used to wait three months to get a bricklayer, and now we have bricklayers calling us for work,” the builder said.

Bricklayers Paul O’Brien and Shorn Thomas said a slight slowdown meant they could start jobs within hours of getting a phone call. “It’s busy enough for most bricklayers but nothing like last year or the year before,” Mr O’Brien said.

Builder Dale Alcock said he had not dropped rates for bricklayers but he no longer paid bonuses offered during the boom.

KIM MACDONALD

Ha, I laugh at all those people who dismissed me when I said that the boom would not last forever. Retards. "oh but it will last for generations" - lol. It was bound to happen.

This is only good. Will inject some sensibility into the market. Doesn't mean a bust though just a little more stability

Ha, I laugh at all those people who dismissed me when I said that the boom would not last forever. Retards. "oh but it will last for generations" - lol. It was bound to happen.

People always seem to ignore history when things are going too good ... :nuts:

This is about affordability, ie the cost of purchase vs average wages rather then just what is the most expensive on face value.



AUSTRALIAN homes are the least affordable of an international survey, with regional cities including Mandurah outside Perth and Queensland's Sunshine Coast emerging as among the most expensive.

A survey of 227 cities published in the 2008 Demographia study of international housing affordability suggests the Rudd Government should not focus exclusively on Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

The least affordable cities in Australia are Mandurah, a commuter town 74km south of Perth, which is ranked 6th, and the Sunshine Coast, where Kevin Rudd grew up, which is ranked 7th.

Sydney is ranked the 11th least affordable city in the survey of Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the US.

The least affordable place to live is Los Angeles, but because Australia has the most cities - 18 - in the top 50, it is the least affordable nation for housing.

"Australia (with New Zealand) has the most unaffordable housing in the surveyed nations," economist and report author Wendell Cox said.

"There are no affordable markets in Australia and there are no moderately unaffordable markets. Twenty-five of the 28markets are rated severely unaffordable.

"All of the large capital cities (Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide) are rated severely unaffordable. The best ratings are seriously unaffordable in three smaller markets, Maitland (NSW), Ballarat and Bendigo (both in Victoria)."

Perth, ranked 19th, is almost on a par with London, which is the 18th least affordable city.

The 24th least affordable is another West Australian city, Rockingham, a holiday destination 47km south of Perth.

"It's not just the big cities. This study confirms that affordability is also a problem in areas including Mandurah, the Sunshine Coast and the Gold Coast," Property Council of Australia chief executive Peter Verwer said. "It's important with these new cities that we don't make the same mistakes, which is put a ring around and them and say: no more development beyond here. That just makes prices rise.

"Australia's dismal performance highlights the need to reverse the policies that created today's artificially inflated house prices.

"On average, Australian families are forced to spend 6.1 times their entire household income to buy a typical home compared to 3.1 times in Canada and 3.6times in the US, and that's before interest charges.

"In Sydney, the multiple is 8.6 and Melbourne is 7.3, but it's even higher in some of Australia's fastest-growing cities, including Mandurah, (9.5), Sunshine Coast (9.3) and the Gold Coast (8.6).

lol Rockingham is a holiday destination now :/

It is bad that everywhere is so unafforable, but why do they single out rockingham. Surely a place like cottesloe is far more unaffordable? EVen against income.

lol Rockingham is a holiday destination now :/

It is bad that everywhere is so unafforable, but why do they single out rockingham. Surely a place like cottesloe is far more unaffordable? EVen against income.

Because Rockingham (24th) like Mandurah (6th) are classed as separate cities. While Cottesloe, a suburb, would be included within the Perth (19th) statistic.

I thought Rockingham was metro though.

How can such boring sterile towns with nothing to do command so much money. The perth public is really ignorant, tired and lazy. I can see the attraction of a vibrant coastal town but mandurah??? It's almost like where people go to die.
Don't get me wrong, for the right price mandurah's ok but at the current price it's a pointless destination.

well thats why mandurah would be so unaffordable, cos everyone who lives there is retired so they don't have much of an income making it so high on the list, plus it is so close to perth which is a reason people would live there.

Think about it Sam, most of the houses are either canalside, oceanfront, waterfront on peel inlet or walking distance to the city centre.

Ticks all the boxes for high prices.

Have you been to Mandurah? Its buzzing. Everything you can do in Perth and more down there. Doesnt have a northbridge, wow im sure they all miss that!

Think about it Sam, most of the houses are either canalside, oceanfront, waterfront on peel inlet or walking distance to the city centre.

Ticks all the boxes for high prices.

that's correct but the minute you step out of your property you really have nothing to do. I guess I look for lifestyle rather than a box to live in.
Most other canal devleopments around the world have supporting vibrant infrasturcutre whereas mandurah has almost nothing. Put it this way, unless I lived there or passing through I really have zero reason/incentive to go to mandurah.

^^ Nothing to do, what the hell are you on about?

^^ Nothing to do, what the hell are you on about?

what would you do there than you can't do within 20km of Perth?

How can such boring sterile towns with nothing to do command so much money. The perth public is really ignorant, tired and lazy. I can see the attraction of a vibrant coastal town but mandurah??? It's almost like where people go to die.
Don't get me wrong, for the right price mandurah's ok but at the current price it's a pointless destination.

You can say that for the whole of Perth's property market though when your comparing value and vibrancy. Thats the last thing you are buying into in Perth's market. You can find a lot better value for vibrancy in any other main Australian city. Moving to Mandurah and most of Perth, your buying the ocean, weather and open space.

You can say that for the whole of Perth's property market though when your comparing value and vibrancy. Thats the last thing you are buying into in Perth's market. You can find a lot better value for vibrancy in any other main Australian city. Moving to Mandurah and most of Perth, your buying the ocean, weather and open space.

lol ok yeah you're right my comment applies to Perth as a whole. Evryone says the open space thing. Perth is toooooo open for me as it is what more open space do I need. But hey it's all relative. If someone's lived all their lives here to them Perth is very stifling :lol:

The waterways and canals are fantastic if you have a boat. Accessibility etc is much better for most people than living in suburbia to get to a launching point.

If you say Mandurah is boring, youre saying everywhere is. In day to day lives, people go out to eat, see movies, walk on beaches, play golf, go to events etc and thats my point, theres everything you can do in Perth in Mandurah.

If you cant find things to do in Mandurah, you cant find things to do in life in general.

The waterways and canals are fantastic if you have a boat. Accessibility etc is much better for most people than living in suburbia to get to a launching point.

If you say Mandurah is boring, youre saying everywhere is. In day to day lives, people go out to eat, see movies, walk on beaches, play golf, go to events etc and thats my point, theres everything you can do in Perth in Mandurah.

If you cant find things to do in Mandurah, you cant find things to do in life in general.

come on SF, for someone who has travelled abroad you know it's not true. It's sterile, soulless, and it's the same old boring shops, movie theaters and a few eateries. The avg shmo doesn't have a yacht and a canal birth either.
Yeah I agree most of Perth falls into the same category hence my apprehension about why would you go there for something different.

Your original point and question was about the housing prices, not the livability.

There are more available waterfront houses there, its that simple. People want to be next to water. Perth only has a limited amount of those types of housing lots especially considering our bush forever planning laws.

lol ok yeah you're right my comment applies to Perth as a whole. Evryone says the open space thing. Perth is toooooo open for me as it is what more open space do I need. But hey it's all relative. If someone's lived all their lives here to them Perth is very stifling :lol:

It is all relative. Over here people spend $200,000 - $300,000 on a 30sqm box in 50-100 year old buildings that lack many facilities most people take for granted (such as laundries). Many Perth born and bread citizens would gawk at the prospect of spending so much on something so small and certainly couldn't see the value in it. But people here are happy to buy into these properties because vibrancy is the critical reason of purchase.

Ha, I laugh at all those people who dismissed me when I said that the boom would not last forever. Retards. "oh but it will last for generations" - lol. It was bound to happen.

Housing in Perth has become too overpriced, too expensive to renovate and to build build. So naturally demand was going to drop. It doesn't mean demand for minerals up north has dropped to normal levels though.

If you say Mandurah is boring, youre saying everywhere is. In day to day lives, people go out to eat, see movies, walk on beaches, play golf, go to events etc and thats my point, theres everything you can do in Perth in Mandurah.

If you cant find things to do in Mandurah, you cant find things to do in life in general.

:lol: Mandurah is dead boring. Who wants to travel one hour somewhere to see retirees, water, and a few tourist shops?

And which "events" does Perth have that Mandurah has also? Having a golf course does not make a town vibrant and liveable, neither does having a beach. You have the typical Perth mindset.

Oh no of course not, but it will happen. It was just always annoying when people asked why I wanted to go to uni when I could be making more elsewhere. When I said that this boom would not last forever, I was laughed at :p. This is the start of what will happen to most trades I would imagine. They will go back to normal wages.

:lol: Mandurah is dead boring. Who wants to travel one hour somewhere to see retirees, water, and a few tourist shops?

And which "events" does Perth have that Mandurah has also? Having a golf course does not make a town vibrant and liveable, neither does having a beach. You have the typical Perth mindset.

This is what the majority of Perth wants though. A relaxed lifestyle.

This is what the majority of Perth wants though. A relaxed lifestyle.

But is it? Or do they just want it because they are used to it and don't know any better? I can't imagine a population of 1.5million, with 40% being foreign born, wanting a dull and lifeless city in the middle of no where.

Most people only go down to Mandurah because there is no where else to do a day trip in Perth.

Housing in Perth has become too overpriced, too expensive to renovate and to build build. So naturally demand was going to drop. It doesn't mean demand for minerals up north has dropped to normal levels though.

Yes but this boom was quite different to most previous booms whereby all segments of the economy where booming; The share market, commodity exports, property, retail, low unemployment, low inflation, etc. Now a number of those elements are falling away. Traditionally only segments of the economy boom at once while other areas regress or stay stagnant. Hence the term, a once in a life time boom.

Or they go to Mandurah because its a slight change of scenery :) is 40% find it dull, they don't have to live here. And I am sure before they moved here they knew it was "a dull and lifeless city in the middle of no where", or they would be in SYdney or Melbourne. Perth has its own charm :) A lot of people are attracted to it.

:lol: Mandurah is dead boring. Who wants to travel one hour somewhere to see retirees, water, and a few tourist shops?

And which "events" does Perth have that Mandurah has also? Having a golf course does not make a town vibrant and liveable, neither does having a beach. You have the typical Perth mindset.

Fucks sake, i was saying that Mandurah has all the amenities that Perth has for its residents to do. They have a yearly rock concert, i cant remember what its called but it has a good line up.

Have you taken a dolphin watch cruise around the canals? Its awesome.

Perth doesnt have a beachside golf course either.

So it all depends what youre into doesnt it. If you like fishing, crabbing and boating, if you like golf, if you like bird watching, spotting dolphins in the canals.

If youre into seeing movies and eating out theres that there too, i mean come up with something you ARE into thats NOT in Mandurah and I might think you have any sort of argument other than just bagging a town out cos you live in a city and are surrounded by multiples of the same thing.

People who say there is nothing to do are often simply boring themselves.

Damn, I was going to lord it up over everybody with my precience by quoting myself from a few months ago.

I was predicting the falloff in building approvals would lead to an easing of the labour shortage, but I cant find my original post:(

Perth doesnt have a beachside golf course either.

Sea View Golf Club in Cottesloe?

http://www.seaviewgolfclub.com.au/sea-view-golf-club/

There are many courses less then a 1km from the beach such as City Beach, Hamersley and Cottesloe Golf Club.

fuck i would hate to live in Mandurah, maybe scraperfan likes it because hes from up Joondalup way

If someone gave you a canalside house im sure you would love it.

That golf course is pretty close to the beach I have to admit, but Mandurah's is closer :)

When I went on a canal cruise last month, it occurred to me how much sand and rick they must have dug out to make them, the thought just below me away.

Some serious fucking earthmoving there... unbelievable.

Theres a really nice place that does egg dishes on Mandurah Terrace. Real nice omlettes with cheese, onion, mushrooms etc. Didnt do a bad latte either. Was a bit hard to resist the egg jokes, I mean it was quite eggcellent.

Or they go to Mandurah because its a slight change of scenery :) is 40% find it dull, they don't have to live here.

I'm sure many would like to move out of Perth. :) Might be a little hard for them to do that though.

People are sucked into coming to Australia because they think of it as some paradise, when really it is a very simple and dull place.

And I am sure before they moved here they knew it was "a dull and lifeless city in the middle of no where", or they would be in SYdney or Melbourne.

I don't think many international migrants know the difference. To them, they see the beaches and the weather and are fooled with that.

I even think one our fellow forum members, city thing, wishes he had moved to Melbourne first.

Perth doesnt have a beachside golf course either.


I can't imagine there are many people, who aren't 50+ and male, worried about a golf course.

Yes its great if you have a boat and like doing things involved with nature, but to the average visitor from Perth there is not much to do there on a second or third trip.

It lacks any street activity, quality shopping and character. And that is why it's popular with those who've retired. :lol:

fuck i would hate to live in Mandurah, maybe scraperfan likes it because hes from up Joondalup way

I see now. :) Yes you could use the same arguments for saying why Joondalup is a great place, in that it has everything Perth City does (shopping, clubs, dense city housing, a uni). But people still hate the place because it is manufactured and in the middle of nowhere.

On to more important news now and it was printed in Thursdays West Australian that Allanah McTiernan had said that the Northbridge Link project, was "not dead, but on life support". Does anyone know why this extremely important project has fallen away, and particularly now that construction costs are starting to ease?

I dont know for sure but i would say they can only do 1 of 2 projects out of the link and the foreshore this year and the foreshore has been given priority.

They may also be wanting to have the Arena progressed further and do even more refining of the plans being a larger project than the foreshore.

On to more important news now and it was printed in Thursdays West Australian that Allanah McTiernan had said that the Northbridge Link project, was "not dead, but on life support". Does anyone know why this extremely important project has fallen away, and particularly now that construction costs are starting to ease?

May be because they have finally realised the Nbridge is a dump and they better off focusing on the bottom end of the city.

Fucks sake, i was saying that Mandurah has all the amenities that Perth has for its residents to do. They have a yearly rock concert, i cant remember what its called but it has a good line up.

Have you taken a dolphin watch cruise around the canals? Its awesome.

Perth doesnt have a beachside golf course either.

So it all depends what youre into doesnt it. If you like fishing, crabbing and boating, if you like golf, if you like bird watching, spotting dolphins in the canals.

If youre into seeing movies and eating out theres that there too, i mean come up with something you ARE into thats NOT in Mandurah and I might think you have any sort of argument other than just bagging a town out cos you live in a city and are surrounded by multiples of the same thing.

People who say there is nothing to do are often simply boring themselves.

I'm only talking about RELATIVE values compared to other places in the world.
Let me put it in simple terms. If you were given a million bucks which you could spend to buy property in Mandurah or say southbank in Melbourne where would you put your money? Ok I know you will say Mandurah.

My point is that the price tag does not justify what you're getting. I can think of shitloads of canal type developments around the world (I actually bought one overseas) where significant amount of money is spent on other infrastructure around the place to make it an exciting and vibrant place to live and visit whereas mandurah doesn't have anything more than your stock standard suburb with a few water attractions thrown in. It's a RIPOFF. But it's the kind of ripoff that perth people seem to love hence the developers are cashing in!!

Gees whats with the negativity today?

Mandurah is boring and lifeless?

Northbridge is a dump?

I agree that Mandurah may not be the lifestyle I am currently looking for but its a fantastic place to retire and/or just relax. Especially if you love fishing, boating etc. Parts of it are like replicas of a tuscan village and I wouldn't say no to a nice house on the canal. Sure the nightlife sucks but thats not what you go there for. Not everything has to be NYC or London or Tokyo. And the place must have something going for it because plenty of people are paying millions to live there or have a holiday house there.

And Northbridge is great as well. Well at least it was. It just needs a bit of work and more variety of places like it used to. It might get seedy but every city needs that. Linking that part to the city would also make a world of difference and bring new life to Northbridge.

I know I can be negative about Perth sometimes but you guys make it sound like theres no hope or that what we currently have is completely useless.

gees Perthcity you could have multi-quoted, instead of posting 20 different posts.

I'm sure many would like to move out of Perth. :) Might be a little hard for them to do that though.

People are sucked into coming to Australia because they think of it as some paradise, when really it is a very simple and dull place.


It depends what you are into, personally I like the open spaces, our natural beauty, the beach, and all those nice things that Australia is renouned for (except I don't like playing sport :p). Infact my whole family and most my friends loves these things. Just because you personally don't like them, doesn't meant he majority don't.

Hahahahaha

Is it upside down day today? Ryan79 is paying out on everyone for being negative!

Well its because I understand that Perth isn't what I want at this stage in my life but I'm very grateful to have grown up here and I think its a fantastic city to raise a family and retire.

I also strongly believe Perth can also offer more to someone like me if it was allowed to by the conservative dicks that run this city so in that regards I can be very negative.

Hear that Buswell wants to ram through projects like Jeff Kennet to get perth moving (sorry lisa) if he gets elected? Sounds promising.

Jeff Kennet = idiot.

Theres something sus about it, no Liberal WA government will "ram through projects"

Hear that Buswell wants to ram through projects like Jeff Kennet to get perth moving (sorry lisa) if he gets elected? Sounds promising.

Now that's the kind of person I wholeheartedly vote for. Jeff Kennet is the only premier in recent history to leave a legacy. The rest are just fillers looking at self preservation only.
I wish it were true SF but I doubt Buswell will do it. In fact for a nimby state like WA I really don't think it would be a vote winner. Perhaps he can do all that after he gets elected and keep quiet for the time being.

Well its because I understand that Perth isn't what I want at this stage in my life but I'm very grateful to have grown up here and I think its a fantastic city to raise a family and retire.

I also strongly believe Perth can also offer more to someone like me if it was allowed to by the conservative dicks that run this city so in that regards I can be very negative.

See Ryan you do agree with me, you just wanted to sound like a glass half full guy today. You must be reading 'the secret', and thinking positive thoughts. I on the other hand want to be a misreable bastard.
But hey most you would get up and move to Melbourne at the drop of a hat if the opotrunity came up hence my point about Perth being an overpriced retirement village (sorry that was Ryan's point I just agree)
But seriously there is absolutely NO justification for Perth being more expensive than Melbourne or even a lot of other foreign cities. As nice and as quiet as it is, these prices are not warranted.

Pfft as if Buswell could achieve anything, what a joke

He's been in parliament for 3 years, uve gotta have contacts and respect to ram through crap.

Buswell is a joke, he looks like a buffoon, thats cos he is a buffoon

Listen to him speak, hes a moron

See Ryan you do agree with me, you just wanted to sound like a glass half full guy today. You must be reading 'the secret', and thinking positive thoughts. I on the other hand want to be a misreable bastard.
But hey most you would get up and move to Melbourne at the drop of a hat if the opotrunity came up hence my point about Perth being an overpriced retirement village (sorry that was Ryan's point I just agree)
But seriously there is absolutely NO justification for Perth being more expensive than Melbourne or even a lot of other foreign cities. As nice and as quiet as it is, these prices are not warranted.

lol, its part of my new outlook for this year. I don't need a crappy marketing gimmick to help me think positive.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that it may be over priced to you and me it musn't be too over priced because there are plenty of people paying the price. I think its crazy too but there must be something there.

Stupid, untravelled, uncultured Perth buyers or something we just don't see/understand? Who knows.

Oh yeah and I don't mind the new developed areas that much either. I had the fortunate opportunity to do a few days work in various areas there and I was mighty impressed. If only I was 65 :)

new housing market is definently slowing. Still a long way to go with new medium-high density developments though.

Jeff Kennet = idiot.

Theres something sus about it, no Liberal WA government will "ram through projects"

how would you know, you must have been 5 years old when he was in power.

hahaha.

wasn't southbank geoff kennet's pet? if so, he can be an idiot in my home town... :p

Breakfast with PM a big success
21st Jan 2008



Lord Mayor Lisa Scaffidi says that today’s breakfast function with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd at Council House was a great honour and is confident that it represents the start of a strong working relationship with the new Federal Government for Perth and Western Australia.

“It was a privilege for the Council to be able to host the leader of our nation and several ministers to a breakfast event.” Ms Scaffidi said.

“The Prime Minister was very well received by the audience of more than 100, which included the Acting Premier, the Hon. Eric Ripper MLA, and key State Government Ministers as well as many influential city based decision-makers.

“Mr Rudd confirmed his Government is committed to working in partnership with the major cities on issues which are central to national prosperity. He realises commitments to key infrastructure projects will often require Federal assistance and this was seen as a positive for the city’s future plans.

“It is the first time that a Prime Minister and his Cabinet colleagues have visited the City of Perth to meet with Perth’s key corporate leaders and decision-makers in such a forum. The City of Perth is looking forward to building on the relationship which has now been established.”

The Lord Mayor considered Mr Rudd’s key national announcement of a 5- point plan to combat inflation as a positive and wishes him and his Government well during its term.

Dare I say the Rudd government so far has been quite refreshing.

gasp

he's definetely been making a lot of announcements lately.

Latest Morgan Poll has Labor on 2PP of 61.5, Nelson must be shitting himself

They could have put the virgin mary herself as opposition leader and that approval rating wouldnt be any lower.

Honeymoon periods last a while. Its a nice time period i always think.

Nelson is one of those cool misfit Liberals that I like.

I don't think he will get traction with the electorate as he is too eccentric and effeminate and the Liberal party will stab him in the back for being too left wing. I just hope Lady Nattrass doesn't take over in the aftermath.

Urgh can you imagine if Natrass was the first gentleman of Australia?

the Hon. Eric Ripper MLA ...

i stopped reading there! :lol:

edit: Krudd knows where the future is at ... wa! :P

WA's FIRST GEOTHERMAL EXPLORATION ACRAGE RELEASED
WA Business News, 22-January-08 by Edited announcement

The race is on to develop Western Australia's clean energy potential, following the historic first release of acreage for geothermal exploration by the state government.

The acreage stretches from south of Kalbarri down to Dunsborough. It goes inland about 250km, finishing at a straight line slightly east of Cunderdin, Narrogin and Wagin and west of Mount Magnet.

It has been divided in 495 lots, each with an area of 320sq.km. Explorers can bid for any lot within the acreage if they believe it has good potential for geothermal energy.

Resources and energy minister Francis Logan said the opening of geothermal acreage would signal the beginning of a dynamic clean energy industry in WA.

"We are fortunate in WA to have an abundance of natural energy resources that are in demand across the world," Mr Logan said.

"But we need to diversify our energy supply to keep up with the demand for domestic power, as well as to make a positive contribution to the environment.

"Geothermal power systems are basically closed systems without emissions. It is one of the cleanest forms of energy possible."

The Minister said the acreage release followed the passage through State Parliament of amendments to the Petroleum Act that were proclaimed last week.

Bids for the exploration permits would close on April 24, with many of the lots being industrial project sites, particularly in the southern part of the release area.

"It is a great opportunity for geothermal explorers to secure prime exploration acreage in populated regions of WA," Mr Logan said.

"The location close to already populated regions means explorers will have access to a nearby workforce, as well the power grid and transmission lines."

A second acreage area, to be situated in the Carnarvon basin region, will be released later this year.

Professor Klaus Regenauer-Lieb, a geothermal expert and premier's research fellow in multi-scale earth system dynamics, welcomed the acreage release.

"WA has a unique opportunity to stake its claim in the international geothermal energy boom and to fill a niche in the renewable energy industry," Professor Regenauer-Lieb said.

"Perth is built on sedimentary basins which provide exploitable heat right where it can be used, providing an ideal source of clean power for WA."

Dare I say the Rudd government so far has been quite refreshing.

An ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination. - Voltaire.

Should happen more often imo.

is it me or are all apartment developments in Perth completely empty on their ground floors for retail or offices.... some have been built for a few years now and are vacant, about 4 developments on terrace road are empty....if they had a few cafes, restaurants, 24 hour delis and what not the street would be great and be enjoyable being close to the river.

did anyone here post this comment on the West's housing affordability blog?

"I went to Perth for the first time in my 25 years over the xmas break for the Perth Cup racing festival and I heard prices were quite high over there compared to Melbourne. However I searched for a reason why thinking that perhaps every suburb in perth would be like living in Brighton in Melbourne, with an awesome lifestylye, shops open all the time, superiour roads and transport, and alas I couldn’t find a single reason why the house prices were so high in Perth than Melbourne, frankly I think the people of Perth are being ripped off as it’s certainly not paradise, I thought it more like Ballarat with a beach. Why would you want a serious mortgage in Perth when there are better places to live a lot cheaper?"

I can see his point...

that's exactly what I've been saying all along and I'm not even biased like a potential Melbournian. There's absolutely no justification for current prices except of course the fact that there's a lot of ignorant people with a lot of money to throw around thanks to the mining boom.
When I spend 800K in the heart of Sydney or Melbourne I get a lifestyle, when I spend the same amount in the heart of Perth I get hope that in 10 years time I may get lifestyle!!!

Remember it depends what lifestyle you want :) Perth is a different city to Melbourne, its laid back and open. We are all about the beach and natural beauty!

Why compare prices between the cities? It doesn't mean anything. People buy the property in which they want to live at. Not which is the cheapest. And people aren't going to be jumping interstate to get the cheapest possible price all the time. :ohno:

Perth has many ocean and river properties, increased wealth, and high population growth, so it's no wonder that house prices have increased so much. Go out to the suburbs around Perth Airport and south to Armadale and you can still find some bargains.

I think some of you are missing the point. You are paying a premium for a laid back lifestyle?? Most people achieve that by moving out to the country and getting a much larger property at a cheaper price. Think about it.

I think some of you are missing the point. You are paying a premium for a laid back lifestyle?? Most people achieve that by moving out to the country and getting a much larger property at a cheaper price. Think about it.

But it is the demand within Perth. With increased wealth people are prepared to pay more and upgrade to a nicer suburb. I imagine that many more older houses these days also have been renovated and have the latest appliances. So owners can ask more for them.

Supply and demand my friends. Unfortunately neither is necessarily driven by the liveability of a place.

^^Perfectly put my friend.

Its a simple equation, more people want to live in Perth now than there are houses available, therefore prices go up. It doesn't matter what the lifestyle is.

In the long run however Perth prices should drop down to more reasonable levels. At the moment they are at least 20% over valued by my reckoning.

Supply and demand my friends. Unfortunately neither is necessarily driven by the liveability of a place.
Well said.

Anyone who is not convinced, visit realestate.com.au (www.realestate.com.au) and check out the prices (both rent and buy) of Karratha and Port Hedland.

Prepare to be horrified...

I understand the concept of demand and supply and not disputing that. I'm just saying the demand is not justified. It's mostly driven by lots of cash, shortage of properties, population growth and not enough due diligence which is artificially pushing the prices up. There's those who have too much money and don't care what they spend it on and those who don't have money but have no choice.

Perth has created a blue collar class with more money than they've ever dreamt of but lacking the skills and sophistication to make wise financial decisions hence creating an artificially inflated market.

It's like living in a country that produces one type of car and imposes import restrictions. Say a shitty communist block 'lada' or similar and having to pay the same $$$ as a European luxury car because they don't have any other option. Yeah sure the demand is there but they're not getting value for money.

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=8876

More people to give Perth ‘hum’
24th January 2008, 6:15 WST

Perth’s outer suburbs must be redeveloped with more urban-style centres and the population of the city centre doubled to about 25,000 in 10 to 15 years to ensure “a hum on the street”, Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan said last night.

Ms MacTiernan outlined her vision for the future in a speech at the UWA Summer School, giving a strong indication the seemingly shelved Northbridge Link plan is still on the agenda, saying she was “working on plans” but stopping short of flagging funding for the $330 million project this year. A major announcement on the future of the Mounts Bay foreshore area is expected next month.

She said those projects and others, including the cultural centre and East Perth Power Station redevelopment, would collectively deliver 10,500 residents and 19,000 jobs in the city and her goal was to introduce 50,000 new jobs into the area within 15 years.

“All the physical and regulatory intervention won’t work if you have not got the people living back in the city,” Ms MacTiernan said.

“You need a critical mass of residents to create the hum on the street and to provide the base load which gives local entertainment and hospitality businesses a captive audience — enabling them to survive the less busy nights and the quieter months.

“We want colour and diversity of activity and people, not just condos and macchiatos.”

But opportunities for urban-style living were also needed in the suburbs.

Ms MacTiernan pointed to the recent and continuing rejuvenation of Armadale and Cockburn Central, which is under construction.

“If people don’t want to live in outer suburbs because of stagnation or because housing prices are going up, then the solution is to make outer suburban areas more attractive with good places to live, shop and for recreation,” she said.

“A lot of people enjoy the ‘street’ life and people want to be a part of that feeling throughout the metropolitan area.”

Ms MacTiernan said studies showed more 20 to 35-year-olds preferred urban living options and did not want to spend hours each week commuting.

She said while there were many advantages to living in Perth, it needed more “high energy places and spaces”.

An ethnic and heritage flavour should be weaved into the cultural centre but not at the cost of creating an “antiseptic space”.

DANIEL HATCH

looks like the east perth power station is going to be redeveloped for residents and offices which suggests that the stadium is in Kitchener Park:banana:

I think she might be being a tad pessimistic if she thinks that the CBD population will only be 25,000 in ten to fifteen years time.

If the three big government projects are likely to bring in 10,500 alone then you would expect at least as much to come from the private sector over the rest of the CBD, leading to an inner city population of close to 35,000 before 2018. That would make for one vibrant city centre.

Is this residents or workers? Sorry if I missed something somewhere, but what residential projects would the government be doing?

Wouldn't the 'big government projects', once completed, be developed by the private sector?

I am talking about the government planned projects i.e. Northbridge Link, Foreshore, Riverside etc. Of course the actual buildings will be built by the private sector but they are part of larger government masterplans. By my reading of the article the government planned projects will have 10,500 new residents and 19,000 jobs in the CBD in 10-15 years.

By talking about 'private sector' projects what I am saying is that if these government planned projects go ahead it doesn't mean that all development is going to stop along the Terrace, in West Perth, Northbridge etc. These areas will also keep growing with purely private planned and funded projects, and the population growth from these projects will probably match the growth in the public planned projects.

I understand the concept of demand and supply and not disputing that. I'm just saying the demand is not justified. It's mostly driven by lots of cash, shortage of properties, population growth and not enough due diligence which is artificially pushing the prices up. There's those who have too much money and don't care what they spend it on and those who don't have money but have no choice.


You say demand is not justified and then explain the high demand in the next sentence - higher wages and population growth due to the resources boom. It's not rocket surgury mate, just market forces. People aren't paying a premium for a laid back lifestyle like you say above.

You say demand is not justified and then explain the high demand in the next sentence - higher wages and population growth due to the resources boom. It's not rocket surgury mate, just market forces. People aren't paying a premium for a laid back lifestyle like you say above.


The demand is NOT justified. It's there because people either don't have a choice or have more money than they know what to do it. These are artificial factors not based on the quality of the product...get my drift?
It's one thing to buy something because it represents good value and it's another thing to buy it because you have no choice or plenty of $$$$ and don't really care. I'm not saying the demand isn't there I'm saying we're not getting value for money.

So higher wages caused by the boom are artificial? I guess that means the houses they bought with that money are artificial too? Higher demand caused by higher wages and income is not justified? Doesn't the fact that the higher demand exists, justify itself? Value for money compared to Manilla or Sydney or where exactly? Where does your value assessment come from? Give it up mate. You're tying yourself up in knots and muddling up a very simple concept.

So higher wages caused by the boom are artificial? I guess that means the houses they bought with that money are artificial too? Higher demand caused by higher wages and income is not justified? Doesn't the fact that the higher demand exists, justify itself? Value for money compared to Manilla or Sydney or where exactly? Where does your value assessment come from? Give it up mate. You're tying yourself up in knots and muddling up a very simple concept.

Ok for the last time I keep it nice and simple (perhaps your brain is frozen in Brussels). I am saying that Perth houses do not represent value for money compared to other states in Australia. There's something wrong with the picture if I am paying the same amount or more for say an apartment in the Perth CBD as compared to Sydney CBD or Melbourne.
If you think they represent good value then good luck to you. Just come back and buy one.

funny, someones been writing political messages all throughout bicton and what not, one real estate sign had "yet another overpriced shitbox" written on it.

I am in total agreement with Samboy. A decade ago I would not have had any issues paying for the standard asking price for most suburban Perth beach, near ocean or inner-city properties. Property in Perth used to be very good value for money, sometimes even a bargain. Now days property prices varies from very to prohibitively expensive. There is no value to what you are paying for. As you can find it else where in the nation for a cheaper price, sometimes significantly cheaper.

Tell me about it

400k for a 3x2 villa in Nollamara!!!! And the worst part was, that was a bargain for this area.

Some of the crap I saw going for 450k plus around here was ridiculous.

Dont worry, it will all change in the not too distant future. I wouldn't expect Perth house prices to go anywhere for a few years. Its possible that Melbourne median prices have already overtaken Perth and Brisbane wont be too far behind. I suspect the latest figures will show a slight decline in Perth house prices.

Having other cities median prices play catchup won't make Perth good value. It will just mean everyone will be paying through the nose for capital city property.

Well I think its well estabished that property prices in Australia are far to high everywhere. Relative prices are all we can hope for in the short term!

With the stocks crashing over the last week and companies having a bit less cash to play around with I'm wondering what will happen to all the developments on this great site that are planned, approved or under construction in Perth...property prices in London residential had been declining before the crash and hopefully will continue for a tad more.....so am I thinking that Oz and Perth will ride the storm or will Perth succumb to the global markets....?

Sharemarket is already up like 10% since its lowpoint

Things always go up and down, but life goes on.

I think even with the high price of construction, developers have a lot of room for price cuts in major developments and still make decent money, so we are unlikely to see any project cancelled unless there is insufficient labour for construction (like luxxo). I would like to see what projects get the go ahead when the penisular is complete. There must be a fairly decent sized workforce out there.

I would expect to see developments continuing to go ahead, although we are unlikely to see many more proposals until the backlog of projects is reduced, which could take a couple of years at least.

Yeh as long as some profit is able to be made, developers will keep churning them out, however the quality of fittings and exteriors may drop.

um why are some of my posts removed? Thta is 'news' worthy

I think what people are forgetting still about the Perth, even WA market, is that our population is growing very fast and while our population grows property will be in demand no matter what.

Sales and new developments may be down but rental demands are up and will go higher. Property is in a well needed time phase of the cycle. It will flatten, maybe decline a bit but how can it crash while demand is still strong?

The market has pretty much recovered its losses by the way this week. It will be a bit turbulent for a while whilst the US works out whether its a recession or just a blip on the economy. If anything it will have an effect of pushing property prices up as people look to diservify or move their investments into property rather than stocks.

That is a very accurate prediction about property Ryan.

...although I believe the US economy and the US dollar will be under a slow and maintained attack and slide over the next few years, theres not a lot to underwrite the dollar and lowering interest rates as a quick fix only encourages the sub-prime and credit problems they now face.

The longer you postpone a recession the worse it is and the US has been on borrowed time for a few years now.

The world economy is well placed to pick up the US slack, so even with a global slowdown, demand for housing in Perth will be sustained for 20 years. Prices may not soar like they have but higher building approvals will always be there.

I think people underestimate the effect of the US economy on the world economy, even these days it is still a massive driver for much of the worlds industry.

Its not quite as reliant but still very reliant and it shows in the market, when US takes a hit so do other markets around the world. All eye on the US economy for now.

Getting over the growing pains
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23108426-5006789,00.html

Font Size: Decrease Increase Print Page: Print Victoria Laurie | January 26, 2008
LISA Scaffidi folds her long legs into the rear seat of her chauffeur-driven mayoral limousine, smooths the non-existent wrinkles on her smart pink suit and adjusts an exquisite Italian bracelet on her wrist. Perth's 17th lord mayor -- and the first woman to hold the position -- has the power-dressing look down to a fine art, "but I do love all the girlie stuff".

"Right, we're going straight to the top. I want you to see the city all laid out," she says brightly, leaning forward to give Paul the chauffeur his first instructions on our two-hour tour of the city. Sworn into office in late October, Scaffidi clearly relishes the job.

"I have a lot of energy, but I can feel the energy out there, too," she enthuses, motioning through the window to her footpath constituency. "Oh look, there's Michael Sutherland crossing the road: he's the deputy lord mayor," Scaffidi says, pointing to a man in a suit striding across a busy intersection.

Perth's big town-small city status is summed up in this random encounter. This is a capital city that's small enough for you to regularly bump into people you know; Scaffidi won the highest civic office with only 2622 votes (500 more than Sutherland) and a modest outlay of $18,000 on her campaign.

Only about 12,500 residents are registered as living within the 12sqkm city area; many of them actually live in luxury apartments in riverfront suburbs such as Crawley and East Perth, beyond the heart of the CBD.

I observe that Scaffidi must have come close to shaking hands with every eligible voter in town. "That was the intention during the campaign," she responds with a sly smile. And did she? "Some, and I personally wrote letters to a lot of people or contacted them by phone," she says.

Four years hence, when she seeks re-election (she would like two terms), that won't be possible. There will be 10,000 more dwellings in the city centre within five or six years, according to the planners. Perth is rapidly expanding on account of the China-driven resources boom; its population is believed to be increasing by about 800 a week.

And it's still not enough: 76 per cent of businesses in the state say they need more labour. An estimated 40,000 workers will be needed each year for the foreseeable future. Some will take up jobs 1600km to the north in the Pilbara's natural gas, iron ore and other mineral export operations. But most will settle in the state's southwest corner: welders, computer technicians, real estate agents, chemists and car salesmen reaping profits from the boom's economic spin-off.

Scaffidi, 47, grew up in an era when Perth was a humdrum regional town that offered the ultimate Australian dream - sunshine, cheap housing and a big backyard - but was so dull that young people left in droves.

"I grew up in Floreat Park and my dad was a lighting wholesaler," she says as the car glides up the glass canyon of St Georges Terrace. "I studied to be a dental technician but hated it, so I did the air hostessing thing, based in Melbourne with (Trans-Australia Airlines). I did that until I became homesick, came home and went into the hotel industry pre-America's Cup, so it was an interesting time to be here.

"I started getting good corporate contacts, which I've still got. Then I ended up working for a sheik from Bahrain and looked after his West Australian interests, things like marble quarries, and that was really interesting."

After that she landed a job with the Committee for Economic Development of Australia, a national public policy think tank whose state office she ran until December.

Scaffidi traded a hefty executive income for a modest mayoral package of $87,000 "because I want to commit to this job full-time". Her loss is mitigated by the city's gain, in that its new mayor is on first-name terms with every corporate boss and government bureaucrat in town. And through her 1992 marriage to property developer and investor Joe Scaffidi, she also has close connections with Perth's lucrative real estate world.

A fancy sports car slides past us on Barrack Street. "Isn't that Hossean Pourzand?" Saffidi says. "Wave to him. Oh, he hasn't seen us. What's the car, a Maserati or something?"

As he pulls away, Scaffidi explains that the man, an architect, "does a lot of developments" around town with a leading property baron.

The mayoral car slides into a parking bay and Scaffidi leads me along the footpath into Central Park, one of Perth's grandest lobbies, lined with blue-grey metallic panels by prominent Perth artist Brian McKay.

We emerge from the lift on the 49th floor. The dizzying view takes in the wide azure sweep of the Swan River past the city's front door and clusters of unremarkable glass towers to left and right. Not far beyond, the urban contour merges with suburban sprawl that spreads north and south for nearly 100km along the Indian Ocean shoreline.

"It's a perspective a lot of people don't get to see," says Scaffidi proudly, pressing her face against the glass. "This is a small CBD for a capital city, so it can easily and safely entertain the thought of greater density."

It's already happening. "Perth is being transformed quite dramatically," Premier Alan Carpenter told reporters recently. "Stand on the South Perth foreshore and just look across at the city and count the cranes."

There are more than 20, building nearly 500,000sqm of CBD office space and three thousand units that were approved by the council last year (twice the previous year's approvals). "There's one 44-storey development and people have bought whole floors for $6 million each," says Rob Butler, one of Perth's eight city councillors. "They knocked back a $15 million offer for the penthouse, and none of it's even been built yet. How's that for the wow factor?"

Through her CEDA work, Scaffidi can readily cite Western Australia's remarkable economic growth: a forecast 7 per cent real rise in gross state product in 2007-08, well above the national figure, and about 40 per cent since 2000-01. "I don't like the word boom," she says. "I prefer sustained economic growth, because that's what it is."

She points down to the evidence, a cityscape pockmarked with ground zero-like excavation sites. "Where that Payloader is working is the Raine Square development. The one across the road is where the office and retail area above the new underground train station is going to be. Those groundworks are the Century Plaza site, and that big hole in the ground is Westralia Square where BHP Billiton is building (its 43-storey) headquarters. Over there is the old Entertainment Centre which Kerry Stokes will presumably be able to demolish and perhaps put in a residential mix. The bus station will need to be demolished."

Scaffidi doesn't hide the fact that she has a financial stake in the city. Although not a director of her husband's building company, she jointly owns other city property investments; she removes herself from council meetings when they are debated.

Inevitably, her rivals have not let it be forgotten that Joe Scaffidi was one of the first people to be prosecuted under the WA Heritage Act. In 1992, he bulldozed the listed Railway Hotel facade in Barrack Street. He was fined and paid the $10,000 court penalty, rebuilt the facade and put a new 100-room hotel behind it.

Lisa Scaffidi has said on record that her husband "felt very remorseful for what had occurred" but had since built "a beautiful piece of infrastructure for the city".

"I actually prefer someone to be on council who has their money where their mouth is," she says with a slight prickliness when the topic of her husband's investments is raised again. "I am financially invested in the city, I want it to succeed.

"Without property developers, the city would be nothing," she says as we take the lift down. "We as a local government can't do it on our own."

From any vantage point, the flaws in Perth's urban fabric are as evident as its stunning natural assets. Most glaring is that the city barely connects with its beautiful river: bureaucratic inertia has stalled a dozen plans to liven up Perth's foreshore in the way that Darling Harbour and South Bank did for Sydney and Melbourne.

Urban designer Ruth Durack - whose forebears were the Kimberley pastoral barons immortalised in her aunt Mary Durack's novel Kings in Grass Castles - praises her home city for having "a street layout that's easily legible, a riverfront that's like a tableau waiting to be painted on, and an interesting topography that steps up from the water".

After spending 20 years in big cities in the US, she returned to Perth in late 2004 to head a new Centre for Urban Design at the University of Western Australia. Durack admits to some amusement that the "hick backwater from hell" she left now rivals east coast capitals in its brash, thrusting ambition and wealth. "People used to dine out on Sydney's (high) real estate prices, but now we've taken their bragging rights away."

Speaking loudly over the clanging sounds of metal girders from a building site next door (the centre is located in the heart of the city), Durack ticks off other positive urban assets. The West Australian Government's recent $1.6 billion investment in new public train transport - the biggest of its kind by any state government - is far-sighted, she says. Highway infrastructure is also well-planned, although Perth remains overly addicted to car travel, with more cars per head than any city in Australia. "And people in America would kill for the amount of retail activity that's still going on in this city."

But how else are we investing our resource-generated wealth, she asks. Durack says the frenzied building of railways and new ports in Western Australia's mid-north parallels the 1890s gold rush, when bursting colonial coffers paid for world-class engineering feats such as the Perth-to-Kalgoorlie water pipeline.

"But in the last boom they were building towns and civic spaces as much as they were building pipelines and ports, and that's the lesson for us now," she says. "Name one fabulous civic building in Perth that has come from this boom." There isn't one, she says.

Such laments have been aired by battalions of experts who have trooped through Perth to spruik the virtues of enlightened city living in the 21st century.

There's been an orgy of self-reflection and civic debate, prompted by new focus groups and think tanks and invited experts such as British-based urban strategists Charles Landry and Charles Leadbeater, US climate change guru and former vice-president Al Gore,

and former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett.

"Enhancing Perth's livability" has become the catchcry, even prompting one focus group to suggest a yes day for Perth, a day on which "all regulations do not apply". The idea is to challenge West Australians' tendency to say no: no to daylight saving (until the Government imposed it in 2006 for a three-year trial), no to drinking without a meal in bars and restaurants (now changing), and no to unregulated shopping hours (it's still no).

"Every time there's a referendum, the vote is not on the issue but on 'we do not want change of any kind in the world'," complains the US-born Alan Dodge, who lives in Perth and has just retired after 11 years as director of the Art Gallery of Western Australia.

"Why would you stay in a serviced apartment in the city when you can't even find a grocery store after 5.30 at night?" says Dodge, who is also former chairman of the Perth Convention Bureau. "It's absolutely, blatantly ridiculous."

The Committee for Perth, a city-focused think tank of corporate top guns, has obtained $50,000 each from its dozen top members to battle such spoil-sport regulations.

The committee has also commissioned a Perth factbase to find and publicise its hidden assets, such as dozens of dedicated artist-animators, a few of whom are quietly making a living by illustrating films and cartoons for American companies long-distance via the internet.

Even the Perth International Arts Festival has got into the act. The Architect's Project, to be unveiled next month, will involve huge billboards erected around the city that display fanciful visions of an inspiring, futuristic city, dreamed up by 2007 Venice Biennale-featured Australian artist Callum Morton and several architects.

With a wry smile, Scaffidi says she welcomes "the epidemic of interest in the city" and calls it "Perth's year of introspection". She doesn't even mind a satirical website that has sprung up, called The Worst of Perth, in which photographs of "worst architecture", "worst monument" and "worst shopping centre" are posted and mercilessly parodied.

"Worst architecture" includes the Perth Convention Centre on the Swan River foreshore, a flat carapace resembling a bush cockroach with its back turned firmly away from the water's edge.

Leading British architect Norman Foster expressed interest in designing the landmark building for Perth some years ago but his offer was rejected. "It was akin to telling Michelangelo, 'Thanks, but my brother-in-law can paint the ceiling'," one architect observed.

Comedian Andrew McDonald, who created The Worst of Perth, says he's astonished by the site's popularity: 70,000 hits and thousands of suggestions in its first three months. "The site is satirical, but it's also for people to debate why they love or hate something," McDonald says. "The boom-bust mentality in this state means that things get swept away and we start again. We don't hang on to enough of the good things."

He was thrilled when Scaffidi noted his "worst of Perth public sculpture" entry, an ugly lump of vandalised carved stone outside the railway station. "It's going to be taken away and donated to a sculpture gallery (outside the city)," she tells Inquirer.

Scaffidi has far more pressing matters to deal with, notably making peace between city and state. Open hostility existed between her predecessor Peter Nattrass (whose partner is federal Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop) and the state Labor government.

Mutual ill-will contributed to the stalling of two key projects that could utterly transform Perth. One is the Northbridge Link, a plan to sink 400m of train track that cuts the city in two, marooning Northbridge's vibrant restaurant hub on one side and city offices on the other. The other is the Mounts Bay project, an ambitious plan to build an entertainment and residential precinct on the Swan foreshore.

It was a good omen when Scaffidi's October swearing-in ceremony was attended by two state ministers, including the dynamic Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan. "I believe I definitely have a much more collaborative approach than my predecessor," Scaffidi says. "My role is to bring all the players together.

"You could wallpaper a wall with all the visions there have been out there for the city," she adds with a hint of impatience. "We need to put some of them into action."

Scaffidi's breezy but business-like style is a firm departure from Nattrass, who held the mayoral position for a record 12 years. She tells the story of a nervous-looking aide who, just before she was sworn in as mayor, asked her if she planned to wear the mayoral robes worn religiously by Nattrass to official functions.

There was a small problem, it was whispered to her. "We don't think they will withstand the dry cleaning process." Luckily, Scaffidi had no intention of literally donning the mantle: "I said, 'Why would you spoil a perfectly good frock?"' She wears the mayoral chain at a few official functions. "I call it the bling," she says.

Nattrass was an old-fashioned mayor, fiercely protective of his city and proud of its reputation as a lonely speck in the desert, the capital that orbiting US astronaut John Glenn in 1963 described from space as "the city of lights". "May I remind you that you are in the most isolated capital city in the world?" Nattrass once informed a group of visiting astronomers, curiously adding: "If we were to drill through a core of the earth from Perth we'd end up in Washington, DC."

In contrast, Scaffidi gives barely a thought to Perth's isolation: "You can always get on a plane and go anywhere these days, can't you?" But what does matter, she says, is that those who come to Perth find it dynamic and interesting enough to want to stay.

That argument underpins much of the drive to improve Perth, a view that the city must become a sort of honey pot for industry worker bees. It's a corporate line argued by Committee for Perth director Marion Fulker. "How does someone like (Rio Tinto Iron Ore chief executive) Sam Walsh get someone out of an overseas office and get them to come to Perth, especially when housing isn't cheap here any more?" she asks.

Long-term residents might respond that they deserve far better cultural facilities and world-class sporting venues, regardless of what business wants. And Dodge rejects the notion of a Cinderella-like transformation based on the demands of a few resource industry executives.

"If I were working for one of the big resource companies and brought my family in here, I'd live in a nice western suburb and go to Cottesloe (for) swimming, and five years on I'd be back in the city that matters, maybe Sydney or Johannesburg or London. So why should I care what the city does as long as I had nice amusements and the beach while I was there?

"I sincerely believe that Perth's potential hasn't yet been realised because we still think we're a corporate colony, a quarry and a posting for wealth that goes elsewhere. That is still hanging over us and I'm not sure we're mature enough to move on from that," Dodge says, adding: "I hope we are."

Scaffidi disagrees: she believes anything is possible in the new economic era she declines to call a boom.

"As recently as five years ago, we were fearful of becoming just a branch office economy, when we had an exodus of state head offices to the eastern states," she says.

"Now there are people who could live anywhere in the world who are choosing to live here. They're savvy, have experienced fabulous entertainment and lifestyles, and obviously expect to achieve the same here.

"We want to see something lasting from this period of economic growth," she says. "It's only with this level of activity that we're going to achieve what we want to achieve."

Happy Oz Day all.....a whole 10c here in blighty. no fireworks but a chilly barbie to celebrate:cheers:

good article. It's made me hopeful and frustrated all at the same time.

Yeah an enjoyable read.

I never knew Norman Foster offered to design the convention centre .. lol so typical that Perth during that period refused and I bet the reasoning by both political parties was $$

My hope for this city fades when I see incidents like this reported.

Warring gangs battle at picnic spot

WARRING gangs turned a popular picnic spot into a pitched battle with bottles and fists flying, to the dismay of families celebrating Australia Day.
It took a long time before police in riot gear arrived to disperse the violent groups of youths at Tom Simpson Park in Mullaloo in the northern suburbs.

Other parts of the metropolortan area experienced their own fair share of mayhem on what is the busiest day of the year for police, paramedics and emergency departments at our hospitals.

The worst incidents included a random attack on a newlywed couple who were set upon after stopping their vehicle to ask for directions in Mirrabooka.

The 32-year-old driver said cowardly youths attacked him and his wife with bricks, trolleys and glass bottles.

They even stuck a picket through a door piercing the driver in the neck.

"We tried to drive away but I turned into a dead end,'' said the driver, a Queenslander, who was unfamiliar with the area.

The driver, who would only give his first name, Shane, said the ten youths, who were "obviously drunk or had been on drugs'', were all aged between 15 and 17.

His wife, Jane, 24, said the couple had just moved back to WA this week after a stay in Queensland.

She said she was petrified when the youths threw a shopping trolley through their car's front window.

Shane was taken to Royal Perth Hospital Emergency with blood pouring from his face and glass in his skin.

Shane said doctors told him he was lucky not to come out of the attack with serious injuries. His car has been taken to wreckers.

"Perth obviously has a crime problem,'' Shane said. The incident happened about 4pm.

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23116150-2761,00.html

The violent attack in Mirrabooka is just horrific. Why has the Government sent all the incoming African refugees into the suburb when they know it was already a problem area and had troubles with Aboriginal gangs? They've asked for trouble.

If anyone from another country saw this sort of news, they'd think Perth was some violent, uncivilised third world country. It's just embarrassing and sad.

She said she was petrified when the youths threw a shopping trolley through their car's front window.

Now, that is frightening. These god dam youth groups!

The violent attack in Mirrabooka is just horrific. Why has the Government sent all the incoming African refugees into the suburb when they know it was already a problem area and had troubles with Aboriginal gangs? They've asked for trouble.

If anyone from another country saw this sort of news, they'd think Perth was some violent, uncivilised third world country. It's just embarrassing and sad.

Theres few things that make my blood boil, but this one did it for me today...

I think anyone from another country would look at what YOU wrote PerthCity, and think its embarrassing and sad. NO WHERE in the article did it mention that the violent youth were of Aboriginal or African decent. All it said was that it involved YOUTH and occurred in MIRRABOOKA.

You need to be VERY careful with what you say. Its this type of thinking that continues this "us and them" mentality. For all we know, the youth that were involved could be white.

You might be interested to know that those involved in the brawl at MULLALOO (which was a separate incident) were mostly drunken, stupid white folk.

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/large-gallery/0,25537,5029202-5013959-4,00.html

I doubt that the government SENDS the African migrants to Mirrabooka. They go there because they have families they know in the area, and facilities that cater to their needs i.e. stores that sell their foods, spices, clothing, etc.

If you think for one moment that a single random event to an unfortunate couple brandishes Perth with the titles of violent and uncivilized, then you are sadly mistaken. Go visit Iraq and other places around the world which violence and civil unrest are the daily norm. This was just an unfortunate, isolated incident that occurred to an unsuspecting couple.

I know its disgusting these things that happen, but it happens everywhere in the world. It isn't just Perth.

Ghettoisation (in the sense that people of similarities flock to the same area, not the process of areas becoming poor) is a very natural occurance. I don't think the Government sends refugees from Africa there, just that having the opportunity to live near people in the same boat, and with services already there is quite appealing. Plus the area is very cheap, they're not going to go and live in Peppermint Grove or anywhere...

It's more to do with bringing immigrants and not integrating them properly into the system. The federal and state govts should work together to achieve this. It's not just about looking humanitarian and bringing in refugees if they turn out living like animals.

It's more to do with bringing immigrants and not integrating them properly into the system. The federal and state govts should work together to achieve this. It's not just about looking humanitarian and bringing in refugees if they turn out living like animals.

I agree completely. I don't think its fair to bring them here if they're still disadvantaged like they were back home. They should be afforded every opportunity for success.

Theres few things that make my blood boil, but this one did it for me today...

I think anyone from another country would look at what YOU wrote PerthCity, and think its embarrassing and sad.

If you think for one moment that a single random event to an unfortunate couple brandishes Perth with the titles of violent and uncivilized, then you are sadly mistaken..

Don't worry, PerthCity lives in this bubble where he feels the rest of the western world is an oasis and Perth is a cestpool of violent, extreme crime. It's a real 'what would the neighbours think' country town mentality.

I think anyone from another country would look at what YOU wrote PerthCity, and think its embarrassing and sad. NO WHERE in the article did it mention that the violent youth were of Aboriginal or African decent. All it said was that it involved YOUTH and occurred in MIRRABOOKA.

You need to be VERY careful with what you say. Its this type of thinking that continues this "us and them" mentality. For all we know, the youth that were involved could be white.

:nuts:

It was a comment on the violent nature of Mirrabooka, primary due to the gang fights between the two groups I mentioned. It has nothing to do with a "us and them" mentality, because I hate racist, bogan white Australians even more.

Yes the incident may have involved white youth. That doesn't change my comment.


This was just an unfortunate, isolated incident

:lol: "Perth is great, Perth is fantastic!!"

Don't worry, PerthCity lives in this bubble where he feels the rest of the western world is an oasis and Perth is a cestpool of violent, extreme crime. It's a real 'what would the neighbours think' country town mentality.

No, I actually wasn't really concerned about foreigners would think, it was just an expression to show how violent the incident was. Please don't compare the violence in Perth with Sydney or other Australian cities, because they're just as bad.

:nuts:

It was a comment on the violent nature of Mirrabooka, primary due to the gang fights between the two groups I mentioned. It has nothing to do with a "us and them" mentality, because I hate racist, bogan white Australians even more.

Yes the incident may have involved white youth. That doesn't change my comment.

:lol: "Perth is great, Perth is fantastic!!"

Listen, you ASSUMED that the youth involved were either AFRICAN or ABORIGINAL, and that is the problem I have with your post. You ASSUMED the worst of two groups of people which is unfair and insensitive. I understand you are commenting about the violent incident, but you were wrong to assume the race/ethnicity of those involved.

Mirrabooka's socio-economic issues are beyond race or ethnic origin. There were no gangs involved in the random attack on the couple. The media just likes to sex it up. Perth wishes it had real gangs...

:nuts:

:lol: "Perth is great, Perth is fantastic!!"

I never said Perth was great OR fantastic... But don't be foolish to believe that everything bad is happening here. Our problems are relatively far and few between compared to other places in the world. Time for a reality check.

why is this country bringing people who are unskilled? ie no qualifications? that is why these 'slums' are forming

i may be a bit naieve there though

Auxodium, the "slums" were already "slums" to begin with. Mirrabooka has never Pepperment Grove, its a battler's area. Very high population of working class.

Refugees come to Australia under humanitarian programs. They move from refugee camps to countries such as Australia which takes them and gives them another chance.

Listen, you ASSUMED that the youth involved were either AFRICAN or ABORIGINAL, and that is the problem I have with your post. You ASSUMED the worst of two groups of people which is unfair and insensitive.

I didn't outright say they were responsible because I didn't have those details. But I made an assumption based on previous incidents and problems in the area. I think it was a fair assumption to make, when we all quite clearly know what been happening in that area.

I didn't outright say they were responsible because I didn't have those details. But I made an assumption based on previous incidents and problems in the area. I think it was a fair assumption to make, when we all quite clearly know what been happening in that area.

I understand what you are saying, but it is still wrong.

Imagine if you belonged to a minority group that was new to Australia and all you ever read was about how many problems you've bought to this country, that you live in ghettos and the general public either disliked you or looked down upon you. Its just not fair.

Just because its highly probably doesn't make it correct. It is people like yourself who perpetuate these myths in our society, and certainly when you broadcast this over mediums such as the internet you add fuel to the fire.

All we KNOW is there is a higher crime rate in Mirrabooka then say the average suburb. Statistics would back this up. But its not fair to blame or assume a whole group of people are responsible based on race/ethnicity.

Do not give prejudice a chance to rear its ugly head.

The Mirrabooka area is actually the most multicultural in perth, it has people from more than 50 countries, if you go to the mirrabooka bus station or shopping centre, its quite incredible actually, you would not know you are in perth australia

KARL05, i think PerthCity (god forbid i agree with him) does have a point, it is more likely than not that a large group of youths walking the streets attacking people in an area like that is either Aboriginal or African, a lot of these groups get free reign, people are scared to dob them in when something happens to them so they just get worse and worse, i've seen this first hand recently. I wouldn't say Perth has many "self-proclaimed" gangs, but we have a lot of large groups of people who "roll" together that just go around stomping peoples heads for the fun of it.

Vigalante aussie "blokes" give me the shits aswell.

they all look like ethnics to me...

I didn't outright say they were responsible because I didn't have those details. But I made an assumption based on previous incidents and problems in the area. I think it was a fair assumption to make, when we all quite clearly know what been happening in that area.

But i think what the other bloke is saying is that 'these assumptions' can sometimes trigger off the problem in the first place.

I know its disgusting these things that happen, but it happens everywhere in the world. It isn't just Perth.

But where else is "everywhere in the world"?

But i think what the other bloke is saying is that 'these assumptions' can sometimes trigger off the problem in the first place.

We know that's not true though. The problems in Mirrabooka have little to do with white Australians these days.

If KARL wants to get upset at me for highlighting the violent nature of the suburb, and the groups responsible the majority of the time, then that's his choice, but unfortunately it's not going to solve any problems.

they all look like ethnics to me...

very narrow minded thought i must say...any one 'non' australian being classed as 'ethnic'

all in all they are idiots who get draped in flags, drink TOO MUCH and suffer from a bout of heat stroke or heat affects and then it is a recepie for a fight.

Cant really do much i suppose.

We know that's not true though. The problems in Mirrabooka have little to do with white Australians these days.

If KARL05 wants to get upset at me for highlighting the violent nature of the suburb, and the groups responsible the majority of the time, then that's his choice, but unfortunately it's not going to solve any problems.

Ari Gold understands what I mean. PerthCity is making it an issue about race.

Its unfortunate that PerthCity doesn't see that race should not be the issue here. All I ask is that you do not ASSUME that the youths are AFRICAN or ABORIGINAL. You are throwing all sorts of accusations around and making it sound like the violence and social problems in Mirrabooka are solely caused by Africans and Aboriginals. I am arguing that the social problems that exist are NOT LIMITED TO a particular race/ethnicity, but rather to SOCIO-ECONOMIC STATUS. I agree that Mirrabooka is not the nicest neighbourhood around.

You cannot say that white people are immune to poverty, drug abuse and crime. Its a socio-economic issue. There are people that live in Mirrabooka who are white and have share similar socio-economic circumstances common to the region.

PerthCity, you are ADDING to the social stigma of Mirrabooka by making a socio-economic a racial issue. You have given a colour to the skin of the youths and allowed prejudice to reign!

PerthCity, be constructive and change your attitude in regards to painting everyone with the same brush. You cannot blame an entire racial/ethnic group of an areas problems. The solution is simple - STOP targeting entire racial/ethnic groups and realize its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue!

KARL05, i think PerthCity (god forbid i agree with him) does have a point, it is more likely than not that a large group of youths walking the streets attacking people in an area like that is either Aboriginal or African, a lot of these groups get free reign, people are scared to dob them in when something happens to them so they just get worse and worse, i've seen this first hand recently. I wouldn't say Perth has many "self-proclaimed" gangs, but we have a lot of large groups of people who "roll" together that just go around stomping peoples heads for the fun of it.

Vigalante aussie "blokes" give me the shits aswell.

Perth4Life, why would you be scared to dob in someone doing the wrong thing? You cant call 000 on your mobile phone? People shouldn't feel threatened just because someone has a different skin colour to their own.

I aint gonna lie, I don't know anything about "stomping heads" for the fun of it. But I cant help but think this threat is imagined... especially the threat by "ethnic" youths.

I don't assume to make judgments about what race you or anyone else is on this forum. I am what you would describe as "ethnic" and you shouldn't be afraid of me if I was hanging out with my friends in Mirrabooka.

If I was doing the wrong thing, Perth4Life, I would expect you to call the police. After all, thats what they're for. Bottom line - don't perceive "ethnic people", people of colour, as threatening.

We're much more similar to you than you realize ;)

in other news.

http://www.wa.baseball.com.au/

BARBAGALLO PERTH HEAT - SOUTHERN DIVISION CHAMPS !!!

The Barbagallo Perth HEAT has recorded a 5-2 win against the Victorian Aces on Australia Day. Matt Kennelly came up big with a 3 run home run in the bottom of the eighth inning. This now means that the Barbagallo Perth HEAT are Southern Division Champions (of the claxton shield). The ABF will now choose between the Heat and the still to be determined Eastern Division champion as to which city will host the Grand Final series. Let's hope it's Perth !! So watch this space for further details.


perth heat will play either NSW or QLD

Perth4Life, why would you be scared to dob in someone doing the wrong thing? You cant call 000 on your mobile phone? People shouldn't feel threatened just because someone has a different skin colour to their own.

I aint gonna lie, I don't know anything about "stomping heads" for the fun of it. But I cant help but think this threat is imagined... especially the threat by "ethnic" youths.

I don't assume to make judgments about what race you or anyone else is on this forum. I am what you would describe as "ethnic" and you shouldn't be afraid of me if I was hanging out with my friends in Mirrabooka.

If I was doing the wrong thing, Perth4Life, I would expect you to call the police. After all, thats what they're for. Bottom line - don't perceive "ethnic people", people of colour, as threatening.

We're much more similar to you than you realize ;)

The threat is not "imagined" , i've seen it and know of people who that kind of stuff happens to, i know of a guy who had been stabbed getting his head stomped...

I don't feel threatened because of peoples skin colours, obviously if a group is notorious for certain things then calling the police on them if you are of similar age and happen to bump into them here and there is not gunna be very good for you.

I'm not a racist at all, i have lots of different friends of different origins, but i am realistic in the fact that it was LIKELY a group of aboriginals or africans that did this. YES "white people" do these things to, but in an area such as mirabooka which is very multicultural and also has an obvious aboriginal/afircan population, then one may lead to assume it was either of them.

The threat is not "imagined" , i've seen it and know of people who that kind of stuff happens to, i know of a guy who had been stabbed getting his head stomped...

I don't feel threatened because of peoples skin colours, obviously if a group is notorious for certain things then calling the police on them if you are of similar age and happen to bump into them here and there is not gunna be very good for you.

I'm not a racist at all, i have lots of different friends of different origins, but i am realistic in the fact that it was LIKELY a group of aboriginals or africans that did this. YES "white people" do these things to, but in an area such as mirabooka which is very multicultural and also has an obvious aboriginal/afircan population, then one may lead to assume it was either of them.

Ok, but would it be justified that every time I hear the cry "Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi!" that I think its a war cry for another Cronulla Race Riot as an "ethnic" Australian ? Ofcourse not. Not ALL white people will beat me up because of race/ethnicity or hold such prejudiced views.

You are free to make that assumption, and while made with good merit, might be TOTALLY WRONG and give a negative impression of an entire racial/ethnic group which is inaccurate. I'm glad you're coming around.

When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

To be safe, and not get people like myself up in arms about being attacked for my race/ethnicity, its better to not ASSUME. Leave it as the facts - a bunch of youth attacked an unsuspecting couple who were lost. PERIOD.

Unless you were physically there to see with your own eyes the colour of youths' skin, LEAVE THE ISSUE OF RACE ALONE!

The threat is not "imagined" , i've seen it and know of people who that kind of stuff happens to, i know of a guy who had been stabbed getting his head stomped...

I don't feel threatened because of peoples skin colours, obviously if a group is notorious for certain things then calling the police on them if you are of similar age and happen to bump into them here and there is not gunna be very good for you.


I dont understand your thinking on this.

You feel threatened by a "notorious group" yet do nothing about it. So how will that solve the problem?

You need take your head out of the sand. You need to call the police. That's what they're there for. If ANYONE is causing problem, cops should be on their asses immediately.

I think those incidences you speak of are isolated. Please don't brandish and entire race/ethnicity with slander. That's not fair or justified. White people can stab and stomp heads etc, just like any other human being.

I never knew Norman Foster offered to design the convention centre .. lol so typical that Perth during that period refused and I bet the reasoning by both political parties was $$
Not exactly. Here are some interesting snippets from the WA Hansard (13 September, 2000):

It is a very large building. It is a prime site. There is a lot of government money. We should be getting something that is very special, but we are not.

Mr Court: Such as?

Mr RIPPER: Does the Premier have confidence in the quality of the design of the convention centre to which his Government will sign up? Does he think it will be a good design and will he be proud to have it as his legacy for the central business district?

Mr Court: Yes. Do you think the Government would agree to something of which it was not proud?

Mr RIPPER: We hear around the traps that the Premier is not happy with the design, and he can dispute that. However, many people are unhappy with the design, and it would not be a surprise if the Premier were one of them. In fact, the article in the Sunday Times by Mr Warnock commented somewhat positively on his involvement with CBD planning issues and expressed disappointment about the Government’s acceptance of this design. One of the other proposals had a leading international architectural firm, which is headed by Norman Foster, do the design. Members might be aware that Norman Foster was responsible for the architectural work on the renovation of the Reichstag - the building to be occupied by the Parliament of the unified Germany.

Mr Court: What do you mean “to be occupied”?

Mr RIPPER: It is being occupied, but when he did the architectural work, it was to be occupied. There is no doubt that Norman Foster’s firm has an international reputation. It has been engaged for very significant international projects, including the building in Berlin which is occupied by the Parliament of the united Germany.

Mr Court: If you keep talking about this Parliament, I will bring in my photographs. I have all the photographs of the Parliament and the party rooms. If you want to debate the Reichstag in Germany, you should do so. I don’t have a problem with that.

Mr RIPPER: I am debating the need for a site in Perth, such as this one which has a significant investment of $110m of public funds plus land, to have a building of which we can be proud in the future. We do not have that building with this design, and I do not believe there is universal support within the Government for the design and this project.

Mr Ripper: Is it the case that one of the failed proposals would have funded quite a bit of the road changes that are required for that precinct?

Mr COURT: Does the member mean the Norman Foster proposal? I wish members opposite had gone to the briefings.

Mr McGowan: I asked for one for the entire Caucus on 8 August, and you would not give us one.

Mr COURT: Members opposite can have a briefing any time they like. After members have had the briefing, they will understand why there were difficulties with that proposal. It involved a major reworking of the interchange system. The basis of the proposal was that the Government fund the whole project and get back its moneys from the sale of land that was to be developed. The proposal was to build a convention facility on the waterfront next to the Narrows Bridge. The area where the car park and convention centre will go was to be turned into a high-rise, redevelopment site. We were told that if all those buildings were built there, the Government would make a lot of money. They were right; we would have made a lot of money. It is all on reclaimed land. However, there would have been an outcry in the community at putting high-rise buildings along those car parking areas in front of the city. We have taken the position that the main part of the exhibition centre be no higher than the level of the roads in the interchange system. We would have great difficulty with major high-rise developments taking place. On financial sums, if people were allowed to put a lot of buildings there, the land would be sold for significant money.

(emphasis added by me)

christ.

Anyway I love Lisa and shes gonna make us pretty happy.

Ok, but would it be justified that every time I hear the cry "Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi!" that I think its a war cry for another Cronulla Race Riot as an "ethnic" Australian ? Ofcourse not. Not ALL white people will beat me up because of race/ethnicity or hold such prejudiced views.

You are free to make that assumption, and while made with good merit, might be TOTALLY WRONG and give a negative impression of an entire racial/ethnic group which is inaccurate. I'm glad you're coming around.

When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

To be safe, and not get people like myself up in arms about being attacked for my race/ethnicity, its better to not ASSUME. Leave it as the facts - a bunch of youth attacked an unsuspecting couple who were lost. PERIOD.

Unless you were physically there to see with your own eyes the colour of youths' skin, LEAVE THE ISSUE OF RACE ALONE!

For one, i hate stupid Australian chants and people wanting to start race riots, i often stick up for many races when they come under scruitiny or people have a go at them.

I can't be bothered arguing about this.

For one, i hate stupid Australian chants and people wanting to start race riots, i often stick up for many races when they come under scruitiny or people have a go at them.

I can't be bothered arguing about this.

Great! Thanks for being so understanding then and appreciative of all races/ethnicities :) Glad you came around.

Ari Gold understands what I mean. PerthCity is making it an issue about race.

No, I'm not. I'm simply stating what's occurring in the area. You're trying to complicate things and make it a bigger and wider issue than it actually is. How "cool" to be blaming the attitudes of white people for the problems in a suburb like Mirrabooka.


You are throwing all sorts of accusations around and making it sound like the violence and social problems in Mirrabooka are solely caused by Africans and Aboriginals.

They pretty much are, actually.

It's different in other suburbs, but in Mirrabooka, it is mostly due to the Aboriginal and African gangs.

The solution is simple - STOP targeting entire racial/ethnic groups and realize its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue!

Your argument is getting too broad.

We're discussing Africans and Aboriginals in MIRRABOOKA. Not Africans and Aboriginals as the whole race!! :lol:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23108426-28737,00.html

Very interesting article, too long to post though
Isnt Lisa great.

Low-key opening for new Leederville cafe
Food & Wine: 23-January-08 by Anna Moreau


The owner of Leederville coffee haven Oxford 130, Stuart Lofthouse, is to open a new, groovy coffee spot.

But instead of replicating the successful Oxford 130 in another market, Mr Lofthouse has taken up some space straight across the street.

The things that make Oxford 130 work, the coffee and simple food, will be replicated in the new venue, which is being developed in the former Greens & Co supermarket site.

The big difference, however, is the design. The venue, which Mr Lofthouse has decided to call Greens, has a total surface area of 670 square metres, much bigger than Oxford 130.

The space will be kept open and filled with colourful couches and low chairs, with seating for 200.

The high ceilings are filled with about 50 low-hanging white round paper lampshades, while the walls are completely covered with movie and concert posters.

There is a DJ booth in the top right corner of the room.

Mr Lofthouse, who has a passion for music, says he intends to spend some time up there playing records.

And turning an old supermarket into a colourful, open space to chill out has not cost the earth, he says, with the renovation coming in at less than $20,000.

Greens is both a coffeehouse and a meeting place, he says.

Mr Lofthouse, who established Oxford 130 about 14 years ago, says he is more of a big-picture man, driven by the design and a desire to get the look and feel of a space right, rather than the specific nuts and bolts of the business.

“I have a very large electric train collection,” he says.

“I don’t actually like the trains that much, but what I enjoy is actually building the layout and creating a scene for the trains. It’s similar with my work; what I like is the fun of setting up the big idea rather than the specifics.”

Mr Lofthouse, who obtained a five-year lease for Greens in March last year, told Gusto he has wanted to start a business on the site ever since Oxford 130’s first day of trade in May 1994 because of the unique large space it offered.

But he has no intention of turning the new venue into a licensed restaurant; rather, he is happy to simply sell coffee from both places.

A busy coffee spot on the Oxford Street restaurant strip, Oxford 130’s success has largely evolved over time through word of mouth, Mr Lofthouse says.

He intends to market Greens in a similar fashion, with the venue to sell itself.

“We want to take our time with Greens and don’t want to do a grand opening,” he says.

Until a few weeks ago, the large front shop windows of Greens, at 123 Oxford Street, were completely blacked out. But as soon as the windows were cleared, Mr Lofthouse says, there hasn’t been a day without people sticking their noses on the window or someone coming in asking for a coffee, even though the tables and chairs are still upside down and live wires are hanging off the roof.

“The locals come in and keep asking me ‘when are you opening?’. We’ve opened for a couple of hours last week to check what we had to fix,” he says.

But it won’t be long until the doors are flung open.

And while many others in the hospitality industry are struggling to find enough staff, Mr Lofthouse says he has had little trouble recruiting for Greens.

A big sign stretching the entire width of Greens’ windows was put up late last year for two months with the words ‘Staff wanted, no experience required’ and a phone number.

“There is no staff shortage in Perth,” he says.

“We have 80 people to choose from thanks to a sign that was up there for two months.”

Mr Lofthouse is looking to recruit a total of 45 employees and there will be, on average, seven staff per shift.

Greens will be open from 7am to midnight seven days a week, and closed on public holidays.

Mr Lofthouse ran 147 Noodle in Leederville from 1996 to 2000, which is now Monza. He also worked with the Matilda Bay Brewery Company for eight years.

Interestingly, his inspiration to open Oxford 130 came from a frustrated visit to Leederville.

He turned up in the late morning and was unable to order a simple serving of toast. Sure, it wasn’t breakfast time, but he wanted some toast.

He glanced at a “to let” sign in an old bookshop and decided to open his own coffee and tea house, Oxford 130, where toast is available any time of the day.

No, I'm not. I'm simply stating what's occurring in the area. You're trying to complicate things and make it a bigger and wider issue than it actually is. How "cool" to be blaming the attitudes of white people for the problems in a suburb like Mirrabooka.



You are stating a prejudiced and slanderous view of a minority group. THAT'S all you're doing. I'm not blaming white people, I'm blaming YOU. You're view is highly offensive and inaccurate.


They pretty much are, actually.

It's different in other suburbs, but in Mirrabooka, it is mostly due to the Aboriginal and African gangs.



"Pretty much" ? You can't say this! I'ts not due to ANY race/ethnicity. Skin colour doesn't make anyone any more likely to be violent or more likely to commit crime. People in Mirrabooka aren't the highest on the social ladder - like I said before, and for your benefit I will say again - this is a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue!

There are no Aboriginal or African gangs... Perth isn't that exciting.. C'mon now...


Your argument is getting too broad.

We're discussing Africans and Aboriginals in MIRRABOOKA. Not Africans and Aboriginals as the whole race!! :lol:

Listen, Africans and Aboriginals are still Africans and Aboriginals outside of Mirrabooka. You cant isolate race/ethnicity like that. If you held a much more objective view and told me INDIVIDUALS were responsible for the violence in the article I would most certainly understand and agree, but to brandish a WHOLE RACE OF PEOPLE is absolutely WRONG.

I BELONG to that racial/ethnic group. Me and my family and the people that I know would NEVER do something like that. Understand that what you're saying is highly offensive.

You are stating a prejudiced and slanderous view of a minority group. THAT'S all you're doing. I'm not blaming white people, I'm blaming YOU. You're view is highly offensive and inaccurate.


You might find it offensive, but what I'm saying is not inaccurate. In the case of Mirrabooka, these populations of Aboriginals and Africans are no small minority.


"Pretty much" ? You can't say this! I'ts not due to ANY race/ethnicity. Skin colour doesn't make anyone any more likely to be violent or more likely to commit crime.

:ohno: No one said that white people are not able to commit crime. Or that Africans are pre-programmed with violence. We're specifically looking at a known violent suburb where there is a very large problem with Africans and Aboriginals.


There are no Aboriginal or African gangs... Perth isn't that exciting.. C'mon now...


There have been multiple violent incidents around that McDonalds on Yirrigan Drive, at the bus station etc.

Some info I've quickly found on the net:

Somali crime wave

Although there are only about 3,500 Somalis in Perth, they are responsible for a mini crime wave. Numerous violent crimes committed by Somalis have hit the headlines over the past three years.

The Somalis have introduced violent car-jacking to Perth. The perpetrators, mostly with links to the African Kings, a dangerous criminal gang, have carried out a series of violent carjackings, assaults and robberies. Some examples:

* Somali refugee Abdirak Mohmd Hassan was jailed for seven years after being convicted in the Supreme Court of Western Australia on 28 May 2004 over a series of violent carjackings, including two knife-point attacks committed between October 13 and 25, 2002. In sentencing, Justice McKechnie said Hassan's carjacking crimes indicated a disturbing pattern of criminality "largely alien to our society".

* Then in August 2005, Hassan again faced a Supreme Court trial over another violent carjacking. The victim, a young student feared she was going to die after the car she was driving was hijacked by Hassan and another Somali.

* Somali refugee Dhaqane Alim, 19, pleaded guilty in the Supreme Court of Western Australia on 6 February 2004 to charge of armed robbery with violence in company. The court was told that on 20 May 2003 Alim and two co-offenders followed the victim from the Burswood train station before mugging him. Alim's co-offender, Jye Horton, who also faces an armed robbery charge, threatened the victim with a 15 cm knife while Alim grabbed the man's arms and rifled through his pockets, stealing a mobile phone and a wallet. The court was also told that Alim was a member of the African Kings street gang.

* On 22 March 2004 five men were taken to hospital after a violent clash between Somali and Aboriginal groups armed with knives and clubs in Perth's Northbridge area. One Aboriginal man received seven stab wounds and a suspected punctured lung after being attacked by a group of Somali men.

* Police were called to break up a violent brawl between a large number of Africans and Aboriginals in the Perth suburb of Mirrabooka on 27 December 2005. Police Commissioner O'Callaghan said police were called out 14 times in the last 12 months to similar brawls between Africans and Aboriginals.



Listen, Africans and Aboriginals are still Africans and Aboriginals outside of Mirrabooka. You cant isolate race/ethnicity like that.

But they're not the populations with a high level of violence amongst them, are they?

Why would I be interested in talking about ALL Africans and Aboriginals in the world? Your argument is bizarre.


I BELONG to that racial/ethnic group. Me and my family and the people that I know would NEVER do something like that. Understand that what you're saying is highly offensive.

Unless you live in Mirrabooka and are committing violent acts, then unfortunately I've not been discussing you or your family.

a bit of ethnic cleansing never hurt no one.

a bit of ethnic cleansing never hurt no one.

Ha. I'm guessing your just playin wit me :)

You might find it offensive, but what I'm saying is not inaccurate. In the case of Mirrabooka, these populations of Aboriginals and Africans are no small minority.

:ohno: No one said that white people are not able to commit crime. Or that Africans are pre-programmed with violence. We're specifically looking at a known violent suburb where there is a very large problem with Africans and Aboriginals.

There have been multiple violent incidents around that McDonalds on Yirrigan Drive, at the bus station etc.

Some info I've quickly found on the net:

Somali crime wave

Although there are only about 3,500 Somalis in Perth, they are responsible for a mini crime wave. Numerous violent crimes committed by Somalis have hit the headlines over the past three years.

The Somalis have introduced violent car-jacking to Perth. The perpetrators, mostly with links to the African Kings, a dangerous criminal gang, have carried out a series of violent carjackings, assaults and robberies. Some examples:

* Somali refugee Abdirak Mohmd Hassan was jailed for seven years after being convicted in the Supreme Court of Western Australia on 28 May 2004 over a series of violent carjackings, including two knife-point attacks committed between October 13 and 25, 2002. In sentencing, Justice McKechnie said Hassan's carjacking crimes indicated a disturbing pattern of criminality "largely alien to our society".

* Then in August 2005, Hassan again faced a Supreme Court trial over another violent carjacking. The victim, a young student feared she was going to die after the car she was driving was hijacked by Hassan and another Somali.

* Somali refugee Dhaqane Alim, 19, pleaded guilty in the Supreme Court of Western Australia on 6 February 2004 to charge of armed robbery with violence in company. The court was told that on 20 May 2003 Alim and two co-offenders followed the victim from the Burswood train station before mugging him. Alim's co-offender, Jye Horton, who also faces an armed robbery charge, threatened the victim with a 15 cm knife while Alim grabbed the man's arms and rifled through his pockets, stealing a mobile phone and a wallet. The court was also told that Alim was a member of the African Kings street gang.

* On 22 March 2004 five men were taken to hospital after a violent clash between Somali and Aboriginal groups armed with knives and clubs in Perth's Northbridge area. One Aboriginal man received seven stab wounds and a suspected punctured lung after being attacked by a group of Somali men.

* Police were called to break up a violent brawl between a large number of Africans and Aboriginals in the Perth suburb of Mirrabooka on 27 December 2005. Police Commissioner O'Callaghan said police were called out 14 times in the last 12 months to similar brawls between Africans and Aboriginals.


But they're not the populations with a high level of violence amongst them, are they?

Why would I be interested in talking about ALL Africans and Aboriginals in the world? Your argument is bizarre.

Unless you live in Mirrabooka and are committing violent acts, then unfortunately I've not been discussing you or your family.

I appreciate you bringing this article to my attention. However, look exactly where you got your article from:

"AUSTRALIAN NEWS COMMENTARY Independent commentary to counter the left-leaning, politically correct bigotry of a majority of mainstream journalists."

This website is nothing more than right-wing spin. These people have their own agenda. It only goes as far as reporting what happened on face value and doesn't go into any depth as to WHY this issues are occurring. It is scaremongering and focuses on the negative impact of a new minority group to Australian society, rather on focusing their contribution. Its something reminiscent of the Howard era - he's gone now.

If these are the only incidences reported about the Somalis (one of MANY African groups in Australia), then it hardly represents a "CRIME WAVE" as the article suggests. I'm not arguing that Somali's or any other African or Aboriginal groups are immune to criminal acts, rather that the incidents are small and relative with the entire population.

Find me some statistics on crime from African crime compared to the crime rates of non-African Australians. I doubt that generally Africans are more violent people than non-Africans. Find me an argument from a legitimate source that isn't biased and flavoured with bigotry.

PerthCity, so should we just worry about the African/Aboriginal groups issues then? and just sweep issues white people have under the carpet??? I can tell you first hand that white people do have issues in the area but it seems that no-one cares.

OK, let's fix the white problems in Mirrabooka too.

In fact, let's just solve the violent crime in all Perth suburbs. Lets start tomorrow.

:ohno:

The problem with the Mirrabooka area is that many of the immigrant youth have not integrated well enough with Australian culture. I can understand youth problems after a family has been in the country for a couple of generations, but for these people to be involved in violent crime so soon after being given a new start at life is very sad and we should be looking to help them. Let's get them out of any bad habits before they start. Divert refugees into smaller community groups around Perth so they have social interaction with family and friends, but also don't grow up around with a gang mentality.

...

OK, let's fix the white problems in Mirrabooka too.

In fact, let's just solve the violent crime in all Perth suburbs. Lets start tomorrow.

:ohno:

The problem with the Mirrabooka area is that many of the immigrant youth have not integrated well enough with Australian culture. I can understand youth problems after a family has been in the country for a couple of generations, but for these people to be involved in violent crime so soon after being given a new start at life is very sad and we should be looking to help them. Let's get them out of any bad habits before they start. Divert refugees into smaller community groups around Perth so they have social interaction with family and friends, but also don't grow up around with a gang mentality.

PerthCity, I'm glad now I have something I can agree with.

Yes! Absolutely. Those kids need to be educated and be given jobs. Society needs to embrace them and not exclude them. Make them feel a belonging and valuing their contribution.

Not sure if it would work putting them in smaller community groups, but if it helps their integration into society and reduces social problems, than I am all for it.

you can say all you want and theorise tha reasons why these things happen to certain immigrants but sometimes i like to leave it to fact that some people are just plain out thug trash...

any beat up on ethnic division/rivalry is just rubbish. it's all ego/youth driven shit and frankly something our communities should have nothing to do with... it's a beat up and that's all it is.

i refuse to believe anyone coming into this country from whatever dire situation they were before could live here and start taking tha whole i'm a victim of non-assimilation/ tha system failing us mentality...

now i'm rambling.

it's hot today. heeee.

god forbid we call a spade a spade.

you can say all you want and theorise tha reasons why these things happen to certain immigrants but sometimes i like to leave it to fact that some people are just plain out thug trash...

any beat up on ethnic division/rivalry is just rubbish. it's all ego/youth driven shit and frankly something our communities should have nothing to do with... it's a beat up and that's all it is.

I wouldn't say its rubbish at all. These are people's lives and the issues they face are very real. Whether we like it or not we have to co-exist together. If part of our society isn't working like it should, it falls victim to crime and poverty and than in turn affects the functional parts of society (like us).

I understand your frustration though. I bet your thinking "I can get my shit together, so why cant they?!" In time they will get their shit together, but for the moment they need our support and given a leg up.

Yes, there are some immigrants/citizens who's problems are largely unsolvable no matter how much support, guidance and cash you throw at them. But even knowing that we shouldn't give up on everyone.

i refuse to believe anyone coming into this country from whatever dire situation they were before could live here and start taking tha whole i'm a victim of non-assimilation/ tha system failing us mentality...

now i'm rambling.

it's hot today. heeee.

Yeah, I get tired of hearing victims go on and on and on.

If we're able to help MOST people get SOMEWHERE then those complaining victim voices become quieter and quieter and look like individuals just having a whinge. Personally, I'd rather a handful of people complaining than an entire suburb on the brink of a riot because they feel like their needs are being largely ignored.

Low-key opening for new Leederville cafe
Food & Wine: 23-January-08 by Anna Moreau


The owner of Leederville coffee haven Oxford 130, Stuart Lofthouse, is to open a new, groovy coffee spot.

But instead of replicating the successful Oxford 130 in another market, Mr Lofthouse has taken up some space straight across the street.

The things that make Oxford 130 work, the coffee and simple food, will be replicated in the new venue, which is being developed in the former Greens & Co supermarket site.

The big difference, however, is the design. The venue, which Mr Lofthouse has decided to call Greens, has a total surface area of 670 square metres, much bigger than Oxford 130.

The space will be kept open and filled with colourful couches and low chairs, with seating for 200.

The high ceilings are filled with about 50 low-hanging white round paper lampshades, while the walls are completely covered with movie and concert posters.

There is a DJ booth in the top right corner of the room.

Mr Lofthouse, who has a passion for music, says he intends to spend some time up there playing records.

And turning an old supermarket into a colourful, open space to chill out has not cost the earth, he says, with the renovation coming in at less than $20,000.

Greens is both a coffeehouse and a meeting place, he says.

Mr Lofthouse, who established Oxford 130 about 14 years ago, says he is more of a big-picture man, driven by the design and a desire to get the look and feel of a space right, rather than the specific nuts and bolts of the business.

“I have a very large electric train collection,” he says.

“I don’t actually like the trains that much, but what I enjoy is actually building the layout and creating a scene for the trains. It’s similar with my work; what I like is the fun of setting up the big idea rather than the specifics.”

Mr Lofthouse, who obtained a five-year lease for Greens in March last year, told Gusto he has wanted to start a business on the site ever since Oxford 130’s first day of trade in May 1994 because of the unique large space it offered.

But he has no intention of turning the new venue into a licensed restaurant; rather, he is happy to simply sell coffee from both places.

A busy coffee spot on the Oxford Street restaurant strip, Oxford 130’s success has largely evolved over time through word of mouth, Mr Lofthouse says.

He intends to market Greens in a similar fashion, with the venue to sell itself.

“We want to take our time with Greens and don’t want to do a grand opening,” he says.

Until a few weeks ago, the large front shop windows of Greens, at 123 Oxford Street, were completely blacked out. But as soon as the windows were cleared, Mr Lofthouse says, there hasn’t been a day without people sticking their noses on the window or someone coming in asking for a coffee, even though the tables and chairs are still upside down and live wires are hanging off the roof.

“The locals come in and keep asking me ‘when are you opening?’. We’ve opened for a couple of hours last week to check what we had to fix,” he says.

But it won’t be long until the doors are flung open.

And while many others in the hospitality industry are struggling to find enough staff, Mr Lofthouse says he has had little trouble recruiting for Greens.

A big sign stretching the entire width of Greens’ windows was put up late last year for two months with the words ‘Staff wanted, no experience required’ and a phone number.

“There is no staff shortage in Perth,” he says.

“We have 80 people to choose from thanks to a sign that was up there for two months.”

Mr Lofthouse is looking to recruit a total of 45 employees and there will be, on average, seven staff per shift.

Greens will be open from 7am to midnight seven days a week, and closed on public holidays.

Mr Lofthouse ran 147 Noodle in Leederville from 1996 to 2000, which is now Monza. He also worked with the Matilda Bay Brewery Company for eight years.

Interestingly, his inspiration to open Oxford 130 came from a frustrated visit to Leederville.

He turned up in the late morning and was unable to order a simple serving of toast. Sure, it wasn’t breakfast time, but he wanted some toast.

He glanced at a “to let” sign in an old bookshop and decided to open his own coffee and tea house, Oxford 130, where toast is available any time of the day.

Hey, is Leederville actually worth checking out? I have been reading about this cafe strip and all the cafes and bars that are opening up in the area. I know there are apartment buildings popping up as well, but I have never really gone to the effort of looking at this area. I have kind of just thought of it as a maylands/bayswater/inglewood/vicpark suburb but just near the city.

I might have to check that area out when I go to Perth in feb.

---

As for social problems , when I go to Perth I stay near Mirrabooka and I have to frequently use the Bus Station *shudder* to catch the bus into the city. All the crime, drunkenness and overall- unpleasentness that Perth has to offer, I have experienced it in Mirrabooka. I believe that we can try and change the social issues and violent culture, through education!

Think of it this way.

Example- We have some aboriginal parents, that have lived in the stolen generation and have experienced some truly horrific things at the hands of white people- these things will of course be told to the children of aboriginals (and rightly so) by the parents. Aboriginal parents will tell how they were treated and this creates all these misconceptions and stereotypes about DIFFERENT groups. On the other side, we have the same thing happening with white people- in fact- there are many cultures that do this and all these negatives stories are passed down and ALL of these are generalizations.

I believe, that if we can educate and through reconciliation, we can try and change all of these pre-formed beliefs.

The government cannot ban alcohol and hope to solve problems, because this alcoholism has most likely been passed down in the family. But if we teach people in general, about what happens when we drink excessive alcohol, we can try and break these cycles of racism and hatred.

Social problems aren't restricted to race. Hey, I have been asked for money by aboriginals (I said I didn't have any) and they were like "oh okay" and then we got into this conversation about football. On the flipside, I have been abused by white people for not giving them money... it's just not race.

My 2 cents.

As for social problems , when I go to Perth I stay near Mirrabooka and I have to frequently use the Bus Station *shudder* to catch the bus into the city. All the crime, drunkenness and overall- unpleasentness that Perth has to offer, I have experienced it in Mirrabooka. I believe that we can try and change the social issues and violent culture, through education!

Think of it this way.

Example- We have some aboriginal parents, that have lived in the stolen generation and have experienced some truly horrific things at the hands of white people- these things will of course be told to the children of aboriginals (and rightly so) by the parents. Aboriginal parents will tell how they were treated and this creates all these misconceptions and stereotypes about DIFFERENT groups. On the other side, we have the same thing happening with white people- in fact- there are many cultures that do this and all these negatives stories are passed down and ALL of these are generalizations.

I believe, that if we can educate and through reconciliation, we can try and change all of these pre-formed beliefs.

The government cannot ban alcohol and hope to solve problems, because this alcoholism has most likely been passed down in the family. But if we teach people in general, about what happens when we drink excessive alcohol, we can try and break these cycles of racism and hatred.

Social problems aren't restricted to race. Hey, I have been asked for money by aboriginals (I said I didn't have any) and they were like "oh okay" and then we got into this conversation about football. On the flipside, I have been abused by white people for not giving them money... it's just not race.

My 2 cents.

YES! :okay: THANK YOU! Your 2 cents is much appreciated!

Education is definitely the way forward. We need to break this vicious cycle and realize that it is not a problem exclusive to race. Education leads to employment which hopefully leads to a productive and healthy society, with people who are proud of themselves, their achievements and respectful of others.

Very well said!

I don't think anyone disputes that education is the key. Unfortunately I'm yet to see how it will be implemented. The education remedy applies to almost everything in this world but no govt seems to have the competence and vision to be able to pull it off. They just go for quick fire 'wins' that generates enough publicity without really achieving anything.
Call me a pessimist but I don't think this will happen anytime soon. I'm always amused at some of the 'save the children' type charities for Africa. It's all well and noble but unless they stop breading like rabbits (i.e education) we're merely targeting the symptom...anyway I digress.
First and foremost though we need to stop walking on eggshells and admit that there's a problem. i.e There's nothing wrong with saying we have a problem with Somalis and Aboriginals in Mirrabooka so at least it can be addressed. If we keep sweeping it under the carpet and try to dilute it by saying it's society in general blah blah blah we'll never be able to do anything about it.

I don't think anyone disputes that education is the key.

Correct. KARL, we're just identifying the problem by stating there are problems with Africans and Aboriginals in Mirrabooka, we're not saying that it can't or should not be fixed, or that they are all at fault.


First and foremost though we need to stop walking on eggshells and admit that there's a problem. i.e There's nothing wrong with saying we have a problem with Somalis and Aboriginals in Mirrabooka so at least it can be addressed. If we keep sweeping it under the carpet and try to dilute it by saying it's society in general blah blah blah we'll never be able to do anything about it.

Absolutely.

There is a reason many impoverish people "bread like rabbits" and its a simple matter of finance. Usually it occures in rural areas and it's because children can often be cheap labour or generate extra income for the parents. That usually is not an issue of education, contraception or anything else, it's just an problem of economics and poverty.

There is a reason many impoverish people "bread like rabbits" and its a simple matter of finance. Usually it occures in rural areas and it's because children can often be cheap labour or generate extra income for the parents. That usually is not an issue of education, contraception or anything else, it's just an problem of economics and poverty.

I disagree, it's all about education and contraception. Assuming what you're saying is true regarding cheap labor etc (which I also disagree with) it's only a short sighted approach which merely turns into a vicious cycle. You can't combat poverty with procreation. This is where education is key in ensuring that population numbers are kept in check thus improving the quality of life of those already on this planet.
At the same time I know this will never happen.

Correct. KARL05, we're just identifying the problem by stating there are problems with Africans and Aboriginals in Mirrabooka, we're not saying that it can't or should not be fixed, or that they are all at fault.
.

Right, and I AM SAYING that its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue - there are white people too in Mirrabooka who have similar economic/social problems as the Africans/Aboriginals. Its certainly not an issue confined to race alone.

Right, and I AM SAYING that its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue - there are white people too in Mirrabooka who have similar economic/social problems as the Africans/Aboriginals. Its certainly not an issue confined to race alone.

Look, I'm sure that if you speak to anyone in the NE suburbs of Perth such as Balga, Mirrabooka, Girrawheen, the overwhelming majority would say that there is a massive problem with the Aboriginals living in those suburbs. It's been known for years, for decades. And it's true.

Ipggi, Samboy,
You both have valid points. Education and contraception is needed, and an improvement in economic circumstances will encourage social mobility.

Don't forget too there are cultural issues regarding large families, and religious reasons (Catholics against contraceptives) which maintain these circumstances.

Look, I'm sure that if you speak to anyone in the NE suburbs of Perth such as Balga, Mirrabooka, Girrawheen, the overwhelming majority would say that there is a massive problem with the Aboriginals living in those suburbs. It's been known for years, for decades. And it's true.

Look, AND IM SAYING that you're right, but don't forget about the white people who live there too. Who lived there before the Aboriginals and Africans did... THE WHITE PEOPLE DID! BLUE COLLAR, HARD WORKING BATTLERS! We shouldn't be playing a race-blame game. Its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue!

Right, and I AM SAYING that its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue - there are white people too in Mirrabooka who have similar economic/social problems as the Africans/Aboriginals. Its certainly not an issue confined to race alone.


What you're saying is true but that doesn't negate the fact that there's more somalis/aboriginals (% of population) in your socio-economic group that white australians. By identifying these groups it will make it easier to target the issues more effectively. As much as you don't want to admit but there's a cultural issue here as well and you can't effectively find a solution unless you go into the core of the culture. General socio-economic remedies can not be applied across the board without understanding the members in those groups and a huge part of that make up is their heritage. Hence my point about calling a spade a spade and getting on with the job.

Look, AND IM SAYING that you're right, but don't forget about the white people who live there too. Who lived there before the Aboriginals and Africans did... THE WHITE PEOPLE DID! BLUE COLLAR, HARD WORKING BATTLERS! We shouldn't be playing a race-blame game. Its a SOCIO-ECONOMIC issue!

But the problem isn't the Aboriginals and Africans being poor or not as well off as others! It's the crime that is committed in some of Perths most violent suburbs overall. Sure, there's a large population of disadvantaged white in those NE suburbs, but I would be very surprised to see that the % engaged in crime is greater than the % of Africans and Aboriginals in the area engaged in crime.

And that's when it stops being a social economic issue, and leans more towards a cultural issue.

What you're saying is true but that doesn't negate the fact that there's more somalis/aboriginals (% of population) in your socio-economic group that white australians. By identifying these groups it will make it easier to target the issues more effectively. As much as you don't want to admit but there's a cultural issue here as well and you can't effectively find a solution unless you go into the core of the culture. General socio-economic remedies can not be applied across the board without understanding the members in those groups and a huge part of that make up is their heritage. Hence my point about calling a spade a spade and getting on with the job.

I definitely agree with you, Samboy, there's certainly a cultural element to play in all of this. However, I am finely in tuned to the discriminatory and insensitive language used to describe these minority groups as they grapple with these issues.

The reason why this got me so heated was the way in which PerthCity assumed that the youth who attacked the couple were African/Aboriginal without knowing for fact. Its too easy to blame a group of people and explain their behaviour solely on their race/culture alone. And its not fair to blame a whole race on incidences that involve a number of delinquents.

I am sure there are some well rounded, highly productive and successful members of the African and Aboriginal community, it is just unfortunate that a handful can tarnish a whole bunch.

I wouldnt call myself a racist, but beachres is right to a degree

There is a huge crime problem with aboriginals, regardless of what you see in the media, the statistics dont lie about the jail population etc, and regardless of what causes it, theres no excuses for a lot of the bashings and all that.

Just cos ur momma was part of the stolen genereation doesnt make it OK for you to mug someone in Forrest Place

However, I am finely in tuned to the discriminatory and insensitive language used to describe these minority groups as they grapple with these issues.

I have to say that I'm more concerned about the violent acts committed in the suburb, than the phrasing used on an internet message board for skyscrapers.

Its too easy to blame a group of people and explain their behaviour solely on their race/culture alone.

No one has blamed anything on a race.

I wouldnt call myself a racist, but beachres is right to a degree

There is a huge crime problem with aboriginals, regardless of what you see in the media, the statistics dont lie about the jail population etc, and regardless of what causes it, theres no excuses for a lot of the bashings and all that.

Just cos ur momma was part of the stolen genereation doesnt it make it OK for you to mug someone in Forrest Place

Aww.... :bash: And I was hoping to go to sleep tonight............
I'm not sure what beachres said, but there's a number of reasons as to why crime rates are higher, while imprisonment rates are higher etc.
I dont think theres an excuse for it, but certainly there is a reason.

There's a saying someone said, it was some spiritual leader, I cant remember who - "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Ghandi maybe? I dunno...

It cant be justified doing wrong to others because wrong was done to you. That's not fair.

I have to say that I'm more concerned about the violent acts committed in the suburb, than the phrasing used on an internet message board for skyscrapers.

No one has blamed anything on a race.

I'm more concerned about your attitude than anything else. Verbally bashing an entire race? Its slanderous. If you can prove to me that the youth involved in the attack were African/Aboriginal then I will stand corrected. Until then, they have no race, and are simply youth.

Ah, it was YOU who identified those youth with a race and then talked it up. If you forget what you wrote, its on page 8

Beachres was PerthCitys former username

Yeah regarding the reasons etc doesnt still make it OK or shield the fact that there is a crime problem with that element of society.

I really dont believe that theres any excuse for bashing someone or whatever, i couldnt give a shit about their sad upbringing

Beachres was PerthCitys former username

Yeah regarding the reasons etc doesnt still make it OK or shield the fact that there is a crime problem with that element of society.

I really dont believe that theres any excuse for bashing someone or whatever, i couldnt give a shit about their sad upbringing

Might be worth looking into their sad upbringing if you want them to understand why its important to listen to the valuable lessons you're teaching them.

I do agree that its not right to bash someone and I do agree that there is a crime problem within society as a whole.

Of course it matters if you are a bureaucrat or something, but if you are someone on the street about to get bashed, their upbringing or whatever their circumstances are irrelevant, you just want them locked away.

I'm more concerned about your attitude than anything else. Verbally bashing an entire race? Its slanderous.

We're going around in circles.

I have not blamed Aboriginals for all crime in the world. I have stated that there are problems with the Aboriginal community in Perths NE suburbs.

If you can prove to me that the youth involved in the attack were African/Aboriginal then I will stand corrected. Until then, they have no race, and are simply youth.


Forget this one incident then. There are a dozen others, involving Africans and Aboriginals in the suburb.

Sure, what I implied (because I didn't state as fact that there were Aboriginal or African) may not have been politically correct, but I really don't care. The crime in the suburb is disturbing. I won't be shouted down just because you don't like what I'm saying. Even when there is truthfulness to it.


Ah, it was YOU who identified those youth with a race and then talked it up. If you forget what you wrote, its on page 8

You're being pedantic on phrasing. I asked why the Government had sent African refugees to the area when there already had been problems with Aboriginal gangs in the area.

No where did I make sweeping generalisations about an entire race. :ohno:

Of course it matters if you are a bureaucrat or something, but if you are someone on the street about to get bashed, their upbringing or whatever their circumstances are irrelevant, you just want them locked away.

Definitely.

We're going around in circles.

I have not blamed Aboriginals for all crime in the world. I have stated that there are problems with the Aboriginal community in Perths NE suburbs.


I know you haven't blamed them for all the crime in the world. I appreciate that. There are definitely problems, I agree.


Forget this one incident then. There are a dozen others, involving Africans and Aboriginals in the suburb.

Thank you.

Sure, what I implied (because I didn't state as fact that there were Aboriginal or African) may not have been politically correct, but I really don't care. The crime in the suburb is disturbing. I won't be shouted down just because you don't like what I'm saying. Even when there is truthfulness to it.

You should care. This is your country too as much as it is their's. I never said I didn't like what you were saying, I just don't like HOW you're saying it. It comes across as highly insensitive and prejudiced, that's all. Its not fair to ASSUME. There's a more respectful and compassionate approach that you should be taking.


You're being pedantic on phrasing. I asked why the Government had sent African refugees to the area when there already had been problems with Aboriginal gangs in the area.

I don't mind repeating myself if it helps you understand more clearly. To this statement I replied saying that it probably was not the government's choice to put them there, rather they moved there because other family/ social facilities were available to them.

No where did I make sweeping generalisations about an entire race. :ohno:
When you identified the problems on an area you mentioned Africans and Aboriginals. These are two races. You never once mentioned individuals. On every occasion you mentioned their race alone.

allright the race debate ends here- no more.

dilaz - can we have a sticky thread where only short third party news updates/ results can be posted and no-one can contribute to it. i am sick of trawling though just about every thread with either gay innuendo, racism, spam amongst other things.

it would be good to have a simple news updater thread just to find out what is actually happening with our developments. and then if people wanted to can go to the specific thread for more info.

Outgoing museum chief backs move to East Perth

28th January 2008, 6:00 WST



Outgoing WA Museum chief executive Dawn Casey says the old East Perth power station is the only logical new home for the WA Museum.

Dr Casey leaves Perth next month after three years with the museum to take up a similar role with Sydney’s Powerhouse Museum, having completely restructured the WA institution. She believed the State Government would make an announcement on a new museum in this year’s Budget but said of the two rehousing options only a move out of Northbridge was workable.

“From a practical point of view if we stay at the cultural centre, as soon as you start to build you would have to close it and to have a museum closed for five to six years is not good,” she said.

“The East Perth power station and where it sits allows the museum to tell a much greater story about WA and its development and some of the issues confronting people generally — global warming, shortage of water, sustainability — because you’re right there on the water and because of what the building is.

Dr Casey also did the State’s functional review of the Department of Indigenous Affairs and recommended its abolition because it had lost relevance. The Carpenter Government has refused to adopt any of her recommendations but Dr Casey said she stood by her findings “100 per cent”.

She was not angry with the decision because public servants often wrote policy which was not adopted but was sad about what had happened to Aboriginal people around Australia.

“The focus has been on the appalling conditions and alcohol abuse levels but there is not enough focus on the context — this situation is a failure of previous policies going right back, so I think people need to focus on accountability and outcomes,” she said.

“And I think this is for everywhere across Australia — people in Government departments responsible for expenditure of money need to be much more accountable.”

Dr Casey said she was appointed to the position to “bring the museum into the 21st century and to develop the business case for a new museum”.

“The business case was complete, Treasury had agreed to all the costing and it was a matter for the Government to decide whether to give the project the go-ahead,” she said.

She said she would leave her successor with the tools to complete the job, including plans for the governance and advisory committee structures.

DANIEL HATCH

Perth man jailed for six months over graffiti spree

GRAFFITI vandals who caused thousands of dollars damage in Perth's southern suburbs were handed tough penalties in Rockingham Magistrates Court today.

One man was jailed for six months and ordered to pay $16,900 in restitution after facing court on 26 criminal damage charges which related to the graffiti spree.

He was fined $750 for possessing graffiti implements.

His accomplice was sentenced to an 18-month intensive supervision order on nine criminal damage charges and one count of cannabis possession. He was to pay restitution of $6600.

Community Safety Minister John Kobelke today welcomed the tough penalties.

“Our legislation, with its tougher penalties, sends a clear message that the Government will not tolerate graffiti vandals,” he said.

Mr Kobelke said the government, police and the office of crime prevention were targeting graffiti hot spots to identify and prosecute offenders.

Office of Crime Prevention director Wendy Murray said State Graffiti Strategy was new and more vandals could expect to be charged.

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23128404-2761,00.html

Good. The grafiti in the area is terrible.

its no big loss, they where both pretty bad anyway.

Why don't they just attack Nth Freo?

City's appeal spurs residential growth
30th Jan 2008


A new housing report underlines the strong appeal of inner city living, according to Lord Mayor Lisa Scaffidi.

The report, Perth Inner City Housing 2007 – a Market Assessment, notes that the city’s residential market is undergoing a major transformation with the municipality recording the highest growth of any local government area in Australia between 2001 and 2006 (in percentage terms).

“It is no coincidence that during this period our city has consistently been ranked in the top half dozen most liveable cities in the world, as measured by the widely respected Economist magazine,” the Lord Mayor said.

“In the latest survey, Perth is ranked fifth most liveable city and obviously the message has been getting out if housing statistics and trends are any guide.

“The strong performance of the resources sector and our strong economy have been major factors in our growth but so too have the attractions and great lifestyle that Perth offers.”

The inner city housing report, prepared for the Council by Jones Lang LaSalle, shows that the City of Perth’s resident population has grown from 5600 in June 1996 to 12,549 in June 2006.

The report lists key trends over the past 10 years as:

• Median age of residents decreasing from 39 to 37.
• Home ownership increasing from a quarter of dwelling stock to 41.5 per cent.
• Incomes growing faster than the metropolitan average, but not as fast as rents and housing loan repayments.
• Rising level of multiculturalism, with strong growth from South-East Asian countries and South Africa.

The report says the vast majority of dwellings in the Perth local government area are apartments (over 80 per cent) with semi-detached dwellings and townhouses making up a further 10 per cent of households.

Across the City’s five suburbs, the median strata unit dwelling price increased from $307,000 in June 2005 to $460,000 in June 2007 – an increase of almost 50 per cent in only two years.

The Perth Inner City Housing Report is available from the City of Perth and can be downloaded below

But surely that is spin from the Mayor? I mean OUr ranking of being top 5 in the world would not be an assessment of our CBD against the CBDs around the world. It is the whole city - so basically we get up there because of the health system, the education system, economic standards of living etc etc etc...

But surely that is spin from the Mayor? I mean OUr ranking of being top 5 in the world would not be an assessment of our CBD against the CBDs around the world. It is the whole city - so basically we get up there because of the health system, the education system, economic standards of living etc etc etc...


Ironically health and education is the biggest 2 areas people here whinge about. Kinda puts things in perspective. And Yeah you're right I don't think Perth CBD would have won any prizes.

I know I could just pack up and leave if I wanted to... but seriously if we are in the top 5 cities in the world then I'm Santa Claus.

I guess 'liveability' should not be mistaken for 'life' ;) and thanks for spoilling my only childhood belief.

Source: http://www.economist.com/markets/rankings/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8908454&CFID=16415879&CFTOKEN=94552766

Where the grass is greener
Aug 22nd 2007
From Economist.com

Cities in Australia and Canada are rated the most liveable in the world

With low crime, little threat from instability or terrorism and a highly developed transport and communications infrastructure, Canada and Australia are home to the most liveable destinations in the world. Four of the ten most liveable cities surveyed by the Economist Intelligence Unit are in Australia, and two of the top five are Canadian. Vancouver is the most attractive destination, with a liveability index of just 1.3% (see table).

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3310/livabilitybp6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

While liveability considers factors of recreational and cultural activity, the "big city buzz" can hamper the scores of some cities, although not to the extent that a city will present significant challenges. Global centres such as New York, Tokyo, London, Hong Kong and Paris may find themselves let down precisely because of their size and attractiveness. Traffic congestion and higher crime rates associated with large urban centres have, to some extent, offset the obvious cultural gains of living in such locations. This has also been compounded by fears that large centres like London and New York will remain targets for high-profile terror attacks. Despite this, most major centres do not present any significant challenges to liveability.

Of the 132 cities surveyed, only nine cities present the worst-case scenario in which most aspects of living quality are severely restricted, reflecting general improvements on a global scale in areas such as education, health care and infrastructure. Four of these are in Asia, mainly South Asia. The other five are in Africa (accounting for three) and the Middle East (accounting for two).

The threat of terrorism and civil unrest is a major contributing factor to the cities that suffer from the worst liveability scores, as are poor development indicators. Algiers is the least liveable destination in the survey, with a score of 64.7%.

That article actually refers to the list for 2006. The list for 2007 is the one quoted in the recent articles but I cant seem to find mention of it anywhere.

That article actually refers to the list for 2006. The list for 2007 is the one quoted in the recent articles but I cant seem to find mention of it anywhere.

Thats because the December 2006 report was released in August 2007.
http://www.economist.com/markets/rankings/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8908454&CFID=16415879&CFTOKEN=94552766

So your not going to see 2007's statistics out just yet as it is still January.

http://www.scopical.com.au/articles/News/2330/Australian-cities-most-livable-in-the-world


Don't have any idea where they got the data, the 2007 list hasn't been released yet.

That Scopical site doesn't seem too accurate. They state ..

The Economist Intelligence Unity (EIU) collects data from around the world on the management and operation of cities, including the quality of its infrastructure.

That should be Economist Intelligence Unit :)

Well 'y' is right next to 't' on the keyboard...

I find typos in online news articles from time to time. Sometimes it's a wonder how the editor or spellchecker doesn't pick it up.

reading it you see how the ratings are based upon a preconceived set of conditions set by the authors.

For example, it obviously rates the lack of congestion in a massively sprawling city such as our own as a significant plus, relative to the significant congestion in a city like New York, despite the fact that it probably has 100 cultural attractions that are of better quality than anything we have here.

plus you do well if you are not a percieved terrorist target apparently.